WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.680 How do you tell somebody that you know nothing about 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:05.839 the diet of paleolithic people without telling them that you 3 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:08.640 know nothing about the diet of paleolithic people? 4 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.080 Just call those people a vegan. That's right. 5 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:14.679 One author is claiming that a certain tribe of Northwest 6 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:19.559 African humans from around thirteen thousand BCE were vegans. Then 7 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:22.160 this author does nothing to prove it or even remotely 8 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.160 support that claim. Sounds more to me like a clickbait article, 9 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.960 but it's still worth the discussion. After all, if we 10 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:30.559 don't talk about it, people could be walking around and 11 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.039 not talking about ideas and suppositions without ever questioning them, 12 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:36.600 and that is not good for anyone. So this story 13 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:40.240 is from Joe dot co dot UK by Ryan Price 14 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:45.000 on January eleventh, twenty twenty five. Guys, In reading this article, 15 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:49.719 I found a great deal of misrepresentation here. Maybe a 16 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:55.719 lack of understanding, maybe somebody just making wild claims just 17 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:56.520 to get people to. 18 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:57.320 Click on the article. 19 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.000 I don't know, but this doesn't strike me as anywhere 20 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:01.679 near true. 21 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:04.319 There are so many reasons for it, but. 22 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:06.760 I just want to say that you cannot take this 23 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:09.799 small group of people in one corner of the world 24 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:14.480 and then just characterize all prehistoric humans as being that way. 25 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:18.560 And so that's why initial thought on that. Yeah, I'm 26 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:19.799 going to move to you first. 27 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:24.799 Let me get your initial thoughts on what this article 28 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:25.599 was talking about. 29 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.400 I'm with you. I thought this article was a great 30 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:33.840 example of poor reporting. The wording of the title was 31 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:39.280 extremely misleading. The title was scientists find that cavement a 32 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:43.120 mostly vegan diet in groundbreaking new study. First of all, 33 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:46.159 we need to define some terms. Okay, caveman is like 34 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:50.120 a layman's term that refers to any prehistoric human, not 35 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:54.079 in any specific human species or any specific time period. Right, Like, 36 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:57.079 when you read this article further, you realize that he's 37 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:02.040 talking about pitic humans in a very particular North African area. 38 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.120 Then there's the term vegan, which we know is a 39 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:10.000 word that you know elicits a lot of contention or 40 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.199 I guess you could say strong emotions for meat eaters. 41 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.000 So we have to make sure that we differentiate a 42 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.319 plant based diet from a vegan diet. A vegan diet 43 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:21.840 does not include any type of animal products in any 44 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:23.599 capacity and not just food. 45 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:23.919 Right. 46 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.080 If focuses on an animal warfare, then a plant based 47 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:29.879 diet doesn't include meat, they are your eggs, but it 48 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.560 can include other type of animal products. They can use 49 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:34.800 the bones, they can use the skin of an animal, 50 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.240 they can use their teeth to whatever they want, and 51 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:41.599 the stuff often you know, like in modern times, a 52 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:46.360 plant based diet is focused on improving individual help rather 53 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.360 than animal welfare. So I don't really think that Paleolithic 54 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:54.680 people were worried about animal welfare, so you candually call 55 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:55.280 them vecan. 56 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:55.759 Yeah. 57 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.960 So on that note, I want to flip to Jonathan, Yeah, 58 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.719 what should this? Does this article give you any new 59 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:09.759 found understanding of the way prehistoric or Paleolithic people lived? 60 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.120 Eight? 61 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.280 What did this author accomplish? 62 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:16.000 I think that the if I remember correctly, I did 63 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.199 look up the paper and read into it a little bit. 64 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.240 I didn't have time to finish it, so I won't 65 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.840 go into anything that was in there because I don't 66 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.159 feel competent to do so. However, I do know a 67 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:31.120 little bit about biology. My second degree was almost finished 68 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.520 when I in biology. But it would be more accurate 69 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.639 to say they had less meat than the more northern 70 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.319 Paleolithic people and the Western hunter gatherers. They still ate meat, 71 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:48.439 but meat was a significantly less important part of their diet. 72 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:50.960 They're not vegan at all, and he actually, I don't 73 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.039 think was saying that. However, the use of caveman is 74 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.599 just the clickbait item. So that they weren't they were 75 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:00.960 paleolithic humans, they weren't cavemen. A lot of them didn't 76 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.960 live in caves, they had villages. You get over it 77 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.439 interesting that they also had evidence that they cultivated grains. 78 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.319 How do they determine that? One way was dental carries 79 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.720 cavities Dental cavities that were caused in a population by 80 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.600 consumption of starchy plants. Starch is broken down into sugar 81 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.800 in the mouth by amylade, which is an enzyme found 82 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:27.959 in saliva. So if you eat starch without chewing it, 83 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.680 you don't get as much calories out of it. Don't 84 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.800 try that, but if you do want to figure it out, 85 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.279 just take a cracker and chew it until it gets sweet. 86 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.439 You'll notice it. But the cavities in your teeth, and 87 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:42.040 there was a lot of them in this population and 88 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.000 they hadn't been found in more northernly population. So therefore 89 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.279 the cavities are probably due to eating a lot of 90 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.519 starchy plants and creating free floating sugar in your mouth, 91 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:58.879 which then inspires bacteria and causes cavities. So that's one 92 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.920 thing that I learned from this particular thing. But the 93 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.680 paper was just all over the place as far as factually, So. 94 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:11.040 Yeah, right, I think the study was was more thorough 95 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.879 than the actual article. I also got when I look 96 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.600 at the actual study, and you know, it was focused 97 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:21.439 on North Africa and Morocco and the researchers SOT said that, 98 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:25.680 as Jonathan mentioned, they used all kinds of tests on 99 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.399 the teats and kay and all of this in order 100 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.160 to be able to tell what kind of diet they had, 101 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.360 but also pointed out that this is just for that area. 102 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.680 You can't say from this study that all humans on 103 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.480 that time period eight and mostly Vigian diet or whatever. 104 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:46.879 That means that they were trying. The article was trying 105 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.120 to say that they're going to continue to examine different 106 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:54.279 sites because they want to determine if other Late Stone 107 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.720 Ash civilizations eat a similar diet. This is because our 108 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:03.360 previous assumption was that Palalytic humans ate mostly meat, That's 109 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.839 why they call it the paleodie, and that focuses you know, 110 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:10.439 mostly only either like meat healthy fat, nuts, seeds, and 111 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.199 all of these kind of whole foods. 112 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:14.399 Well, I want to stop there. 113 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.199 I want to stop there and just insert this before 114 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.079 we move on, because I think it's important to talk 115 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.920 about the location and to talk about what was going 116 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:24.279 on at that time period. So number one, and I 117 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.920 think most importantly, this author, I think fails to show 118 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:33.480 that not all cave people or paleolithic people around thirteen 119 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:38.120 thousand BCE, or really at any time period, were all monolithic. 120 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.199 We're all the same, right. Cave people, Paleolithic people were opportunists, 121 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.879 and they ate what their environment gave them. They ate 122 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.879 plants and lesumes if that's what was abundantly available. They 123 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.920 ate fish if that was what was abundantly available, and 124 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.920 if it was easier to hunt a take down small 125 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.759 game or big game. You know, that was the thing 126 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.680 that they centered their diet on, and it depended where 127 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.639 you lived and what your capability was going to be 128 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.720 based on the geography. Now, another thing that we have 129 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.399 to remember is that thirteen thousand years BCE. I think 130 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.519 I said years ago. That's not correct, that would be 131 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.439 about fifteen thousand years ago, but thirteen thousand years BCE. 132 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.040 You know, the northern Morocco. 133 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.839 Was not the Sahara of today. It was very lush, 134 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.360 It was filled with streams and rivers, and there was 135 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:30.720 probably a lot of fish. So I don't the thing 136 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.959 that the author said. He said, well, when people picture caveman, 137 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:37.839 they picture them taking down a big prey and roasting 138 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:38.519 it over a fire. 139 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.079 Well that's not necessarily true. 140 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.079 I picture cavemen in some areas fishing a lot, right 141 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:49.040 or you know, finding meat, finding food in other areas 142 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:52.720 that are unlike people that are separated from them. So 143 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.360 all that to say, yes, I think it's very important 144 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.959 to identify this was a small patch of northern Africa 145 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:03.040 thirty thousand years BCE and probably had nothing to do 146 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.040 with the Mesopotamian cultures of thirteen thousand BCE or that 147 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.279 of northern Europe. Like you guys pointed out, yeah, Egypt 148 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.079 right where they could live. 149 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:13.519 Many thousands of years later. 150 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.720 So you know it's like, yeah, yeah, those are great 151 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.639 points because people were also moving around a lot at 152 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:25.120 those times. These civilizations weren't settled until about I think 153 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.040 it will be like maybe five thousand years later or so, 154 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:32.399 when the agricultural revolution started. You know, they started settling 155 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:36.480 more and they were able to domesticate animals and you know, 156 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:39.679 using their milk and using like all of the more 157 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:45.320 animal products. So at the time that these periolithic humans lived, 158 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.519 it was as you said, very very importantistic. They just 159 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.639 ate whatever they could cultivate, whether they were in a 160 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.840 specific spot for like you know, a season, and then 161 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.639 they moved somewhere else. Whatever, there was a bit amount 162 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.720 of whatever they were going to start eating. It was 163 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:05.000 just as they went. 164 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:09.440 They an explanation was there was an explanation of how 165 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:15.240 they figured out that they were partially growing cereal foods 166 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:21.120 was in a Procedures in the National Academy of Sciences USA, 167 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:25.559 issue one to eleven, pages nine fifty four to nine 168 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.679 fifty nine, and one of the things that says was 169 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.759 the presence of early evidence linking hybrid This is about 170 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:37.120 the cavities, high prevalence of carries to reliance on highly 171 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.120 caryogenic wild plant foods, and police des hunter gatherers from 172 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:45.600 North Africa. This evidence predates other high carries populations and 173 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.120 the first signs of food production by several thousand years. 174 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.720 We infer that increased reliance on wild plants, rich infrementable 175 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:57.840 carbohydrates caused an early shift towards a disease associated oral 176 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.519 microboa biota. Which they're saying is that these people, by 177 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.879 how much damage there was to their teeth, they actually 178 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:10.039 probably were doing horticulture, not agriculture. But you know, if 179 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.480 they found fertile ground, they had seeds, they plant them 180 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:14.799 and then when they came back they would use them. 181 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:16.919 So there was a lot more of an abundance there. 182 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:22.639 And as Jimmy pointed out, thirteen thousand DCE was a 183 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.039 very wet part. It was, you know, just as the 184 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.240 ice age were starting to ice was starting to recede, 185 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.279 and the Sahara where the desert is, was really kind 186 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.159 of a savannah and in places a kind of jungly, 187 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:39.080 so a lot of water and rivers in that going 188 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:40.960 through there. It doesn't look like it now, but you 189 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:41.519 know what I mean. 190 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:46.240 So I thought I highlighted that part too, so, quoting 191 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:49.120 the author, the most remarkable aspect of this study is 192 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.480 the revelation that this population developed ways to cultivate plant 193 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.159 growth and harvest crops thousands of years before the agricultural 194 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:57.200 revolution took place. 195 00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:59.960 You know, I don't want to that's remarkable. 196 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.440 I don't want to give this group too much credit though, 197 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.159 because I think what studies have shown and what I 198 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.080 think some sources that I've come across just over my 199 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.279 years in general, is that you know, while they were 200 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:18.399 not building civilizations and they were more nomadic, it doesn't 201 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.240 mean that they were leaving for good. I mean they 202 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.440 would roam the same areas they would have areas they 203 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.679 would return to. Right, So they may have been nomadic, 204 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:31.759 but they still had different hunting grounds, different feeding grounds, 205 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.440 different places that they would go to to find the 206 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:36.919 things that they needed. And probably one of the things 207 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.360 they figured out was, remember when we ate all of 208 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.799 those fruit and we left all the seeds or we 209 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.000 left all that stuff there, weird that fruit just grew here. 210 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:46.159 And so they. 211 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.919 Probably before they turned it into a civilization, yeah, turned 212 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:53.360 it into harvesting, turned it into horticulture, but were still 213 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.799 very much on the move, and so it probably took 214 00:11:55.799 --> 00:12:00.000 a little while, probably took a population boom for people 215 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.600 to start settling, because you know, there's only so far 216 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:04.879 you can go until you run into other tribes that 217 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.320 you know, you run into issues. It's like, well, let's 218 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.120 just settle here and keep doing this thing that we're doing, 219 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.039 and so that that kind of fed into that h 220 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:13.879 that development. 221 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:14.960 At least from what I've seen. 222 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:17.080 I'm no expert, and I never want to give the 223 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:22.240 impression that I am one. 224 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.600 This is a thousand years after you know, after this 225 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:31.600 was Godepe Tepe and those Anatolian settlements, so you know, 226 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.919 you can see where this is kind of going. You know, 227 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.240 the people up there were building not in the cities, 228 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:42.600 but large settlements, but the people in north North Africa 229 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.799 were still being hunter gatherers. 230 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:46.240 I do want to come back to that. 231 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.000 I want to come back to go Beckley Tepe because 232 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.360 you that is a really good point to take me 233 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.799 to where I want to bring this kind of development 234 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:57.759 of civilization. But AJ you picked out this article, you 235 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.960 thought the vegan topic would be great for this conversation 236 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.360 because I am the resident vegan at least for tonight. 237 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.799 So I've been I've been doing a vegan diet for 238 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:08.480 four months. 239 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.759 I'm not really a vegan though, I mean, think about it, 240 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.320 So I'm a vegan, but I have children that are 241 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:19.320 meat eaters that have leather shoes, So I am feeding the. 242 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:21.679 Machine that creates that abuses animals. 243 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.519 If you will I'm not a real vegan, and even 244 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:27.360 if these people had a mostly vegan diet, we could 245 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:29.360 never consider them vegan, could we? 246 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.679 And so ag I wanted to get your take on that. 247 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.200 Yeah, I feel the same way. And that's why, even 248 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:38.759 when I've eaten whole foods plant based, I always continue 249 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.039 to call myself plant based because I don't think that 250 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:46.399 I could meet the vegan requirements to qualify I guess, 251 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.080 so I mostly do it for my health. And when 252 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.759 I came into the atheist community, I kind of started 253 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:56.120 to also think about the animal warfare aspect. I remember 254 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.759 I had a call with you and Objectively then and 255 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:04.519 Forest and actually on the ACA channel the elities experience. 256 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.759 One thing that I was kind of always thinking about 257 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:12.000 was on that call, and it kind of relates to 258 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:16.399 this because it speaks to human evolution. Is that a 259 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.159 lot of people think that humans have evolved to adapt 260 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.679 to eating meat and that we get, you know, such 261 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:25.720 a big significant benefit from it, but there are so 262 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:30.519 many other factors that have helped increase or you know, 263 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.919 body size or strength. You know, we have more processed food, 264 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:38.279 we have better healthcare, we have food access in general 265 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.480 has increased, right, we have more fitness options to work, 266 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.919 and we can work out and become stronger. We have 267 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.519 medications that affect our body composition, among other things. So 268 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.759 we know that humans truly have only been eating meat 269 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.919 for about two million years, like and modern humans have 270 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.240 only been a round for less than half a million years. 271 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.159 And as we just say, domestication of animals started ten 272 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.720 thousand years ago. The Industrial Revolution was two hundred years ago. 273 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.399 There is just not enough time for the true definition 274 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:17.799 of evolution to have changed our bodies to have become 275 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.120 accustomed to eating meat. That's right, don't require meat. 276 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.559 And you know what, so I want to jump in 277 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.200 here because I have said before, like talking to Dan 278 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.279 objectively Dan, that is the ACA's own objectively Dan from 279 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:34.600 truth wanted and talking then you know, I said something like, well, 280 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.399 the human body is not designed to eat the kind 281 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:39.360 of meat that we eat today, and he's like, well, 282 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.320 what does that even mean? And I don't think I 283 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.559 really explained it well, but you know, most scholars on 284 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:47.759 this subject will say that, and like we talked about earlier, 285 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.320 you know, depending on the environment would depend on the 286 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.600 access to meat and how much you ate it. Some 287 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.240 people even say that, you know, in some societies, Yeah, 288 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.720 they had meat, but they strictly kept it for special 289 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.200 ass you know, religious in the early days of religion developing, 290 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.639 maybe religious ceremonies or some kind of worship. You know, 291 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.879 it wasn't a hallmark of their diet. Now people might 292 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:14.879 eat a bacon cheeseburger every single day. You know, that 293 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.080 is not what we are designed to do. And that's 294 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.279 what that's what I mean by that. You know, meat 295 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.120 is fine if you want to talk about the way 296 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.559 that humans have evolved, but we have pushed past what 297 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:28.399 we are designed to do in so many ways, which 298 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:31.399 is why we have so much chronic back pain and 299 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.679 chronic other kind of pains and illnesses because we're not 300 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:36.639 the sedentary people that we've turned into. 301 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.559 But we've created this life for ourselves. 302 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.759 So on that note that came from some of these 303 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.559 settlements we developed that Jonathan, you started talking about go 304 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.120 Beckley tepee. It's a tongue twister in Anatolia and in 305 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.639 Eastern Europe and the other the other places like it. 306 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.360 And I just want to give you a chance, Yeah, 307 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.080 I want to give you a chance to expand on 308 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.519 that a little bit. What is the significance of that 309 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.400 between the connections that we're making about how Paleolithic people 310 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:09.680 lived and and and maybe you know their relationship to 311 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.400 animal meat, nature, et cetera. I mean, what what's the 312 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:14.200 significance there. 313 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.440 Well, I think the significance is the first thing we 314 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.279 have to remember is that these are modern humans. They 315 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.119 had slightly larger brains than we do, but they had 316 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.599 a lot more sensory sensory processing necessary in their lives. 317 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.960 So so that's the thing. They're modern humans. They're every 318 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.119 bit as intelligent as we were are were. 319 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:38.319 Yeah, well, it depends, it depends on what you're referring to. 320 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:39.960 Maybe were might be appropriate. 321 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.440 Yeah, but yeah, so definitely tech A Tepe and the 322 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:49.920 other tepees around it that show fairly large settlements of of, 323 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:53.720 you know, a couple thousand people. The significance of that 324 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.240 is that this is the same area that agriculture started, 325 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.839 the Anatolian area, and so you can image that we're 326 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.480 just pushing the date back to where they may not 327 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:05.759 have been permanent settlements, and they don't think they were 328 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.039 at this point, but you're starting to see the seeds 329 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:15.440 of permanent settlements. Cities, large cities like these were what 330 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.000 they're finding now we wouldn't consider them large, we would 331 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.920 consider them a hamlet. But for that time, having that 332 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.039 many people feeding off the same few square miles is 333 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:29.839 a big accomplishment. So, you know, this is pretty interesting 334 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.039 in a lot of ways. I'm looking forward to when 335 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.599 the rest of the anthropology and that comes out on 336 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.000 it and how much they find out about this, because 337 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.480 it's going to say a lot about what our ancestors 338 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.079 and civilization itself became and started from. 339 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:47.839 So go Beckley Teppe. 340 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.319 From what I understand, only about five percent of it 341 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:54.519 has been excavated. And what people think is that while 342 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.200 it may not have been a permanent settlement in the 343 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.559 way that we think about it, they actually do think 344 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:04.039 that ultiple tribes, multiple societies in that area use that site, 345 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.799 worked together on that site to build some kind of 346 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.039 ritual area or trading post, and it might not. 347 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:13.680 Have belonged to only one person. 348 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:17.640 But these societies, these early societies, or these early settlements, 349 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:22.200 can represent maybe the first kind of international relations, if 350 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:27.839 you will, the first uh, the first the first. 351 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.440 Yeah, interconnected society. 352 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.119 And that is where I wanted to tie it to 353 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.880 because this is the atheist community of allten uh. 354 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.200 We like to talk about religious issues. 355 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.640 And therefore, when we go back through this whole conversation 356 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.599 that we've just had and we look at early humans 357 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:48.119 figuring out that they can cultivate crops and then later saying, well, 358 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.559 why don't we just stay here? And then we start 359 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:54.599 to see settlements developed. That is where religion actually starts 360 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:57.359 to really take form. Not to say that the foraging 361 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.000 societies didn't have their own religions, but in the development 362 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.640 of these societies, these settlements that relied on rain water, 363 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.400 you might see them adhering to worship of a storm 364 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:12.920 god like I don't know, yahweh, like l like so 365 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:17.440 many other storm gods that were over these societies that 366 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:20.519 needed these storms in order to grow their crops and 367 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:26.079 feed their animals. And unlike the societies at the longitudinal 368 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:31.480 lines or in the beneficial areas, if you will, where 369 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:36.519 rivers overflooded, well, they had a steady supply of water, right, 370 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.240 so they didn't worship or storm god. 371 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.279 They might have worshiped the god of the sky or 372 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.119 the god of the moon or something different. 373 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.880 And anyway, you know, the way that the way that 374 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.160 we settled and the way that we built our settlements, 375 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.759 the way that we kind of determined what we needed 376 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.599 created the gods, right, And I think that is such 377 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:56.920 a fascinating story. 378 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.640 And I don't want to take up take up. 379 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.519 The space for the end of this segment by just 380 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:05.720 kind of blabbering on about my fascination with this time period. 381 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.559 So I'll give you guys a minute each to close out, 382 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.240 and then we could call it good for this week. 383 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:11.759 Jonathan, I'll start with you. 384 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:16.400 I think that as we find the initial points where 385 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.400 different clans got together and different organizations got together to 386 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:26.160 start creating society and start religious activities, I find it 387 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.200 fascinating and I'm really looking forward to all the research 388 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:32.480 that comes out of it when they start excavating the 389 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.039 rest of these sites, and including the ones in North Africa, 390 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.920 to show how we evolved into what our societies evolved 391 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:41.799 into what they are now. 392 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:42.240 Yeah. 393 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.119 Yeah, I'm proud to be human, you know, I mean, 394 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:50.400 I get, well, you know what, I get so sucked into. 395 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:54.920 I know, I'm sometimes really disappointed to be human being, Okay, 396 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.720 but I really get I really envy the people that 397 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:01.160 came before us. They had it tough, they had it tough, 398 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:04.880 and they managed to survive anyway, AJ please close us out. 399 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.680 I don't have anything deep like you guys to say, 400 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:09.960 but I'm going to say that if there's anything that 401 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.200