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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Atheist Experience Katheis callin Show, where the

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phone lines are always open and unlike God, we actually answer.

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If you're new to the channel, here's how things usually go.

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Caller number one tells us that the universe can't exist

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without God, right before their bluetooth mysteriously cuts out. Call

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the number two swears that prayer cured her cousin's toenail

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fungus and somehow that proves the resurrection of Jesus. Caller

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number three just wants to scream, repent and read John

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three point sixteen and then hang up. Twenty nine years

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of these callers who believe they were sent by God

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to prove us wrong, but not a single one has

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given a viable argument for God. For some reason, God's

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mysterious plan looks suspiciously like these callers are being set

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up for an episode of punkd or they're all experiencing

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concussion protocol. So buckle up, grab your popcorn, get ready

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to watch believers try to explain why their creator of quasars,

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black holes, and the entire cosmos cares more deeply about

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what you do with your weekend and your genitals, but

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not about the three million children dying from starvation every year.

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The lines are open and the show starts. Now. Welcome everybody.

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It is August thirty first, twenty twenty five. I am

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your host, justin. You might know me as Deconstruction Zone elsewhere,

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and I'm joined by the finder of fallacious arguments, the

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punisher of presuppositions, and incubator for intelligence, and the champion

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of Cathonic wisdom, Jim Burrows. How you doing, my friend, Ah,

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not too bad.

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Speaker 2: How you doing? Justin your checks in the mail by

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the way, Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that

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I needed that today, so absolutely well.

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Speaker 1: Jim has been It's been a little bit a couple

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of weeks, maybe two months or so since we got

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to share a screen, so I'm excited.

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Speaker 2: I am too. It's always fun. It's always nice to

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have someone with such a deep knowledge of the Bible

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sitting next to me. So between the two of us,

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I think we can get most of the topics covered.

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Speaker 1: So it works out for the both of us, because

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the last time I went deep in these subjects, my

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date walked out on me and didn't call me back.

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So at least somebody will listen to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, because I always learned something when

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I listened to your live streams, and so it's like,

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oh shoot, I got it to get my notebook out

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start taking notes because I just don't know the Bible

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that well, and I think you actually read the old Hebrew.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I took classical Hebrew when I was in

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Bible college and seminary, but seems like a long time

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ago now. I graduated, I think in twenty ten. I'm

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actually just now starting to take next week my first

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class in modern Hebrew. I didn't take any modern Hebrew,

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so I'm going to be doing modern Hebrew, and it's

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specifically a class for spoken modern Hebrew. I'm hoping to

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be able to get good enough at speaking it that

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I can go onto like an archaeological excite in Israel

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and do something some actual archaeology.

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Speaker 2: That'd be cool.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's for English anyway, and Italian because

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I used to read on a regular basis old fencing

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manuals from the fourteen to fifteen hundreds and trying to

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figure out, well, I don't speak Italian at all, so

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I'm trying to do some of those translations. Is entertaining,

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but just doing the English ones, it's amazing how much

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the language has changed just in the last hundred years,

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and so going back to something like ancient Hebrew has

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just got to be a struggle to do that, just

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and translate in your head, because there they might as

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well be foreign language. I'm guessing at that point because

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Middle English is almost a foreign language, so.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly something I would say this. You know, the

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one good thing about classically Hebrew, it was different than

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when I had to learn Greek. Like the joke was,

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in Hebrew, you've got one word that can mean ten things,

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and in Greek you've got ten words that all mean

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the same thing. So you have to learn a lot

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less words in Hebrew. You just got to get good

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at conjugating.

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Speaker 2: Okay. And I have a friend of mine who said

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that Chinese is the same word pronounced slightly differently.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I believe that.

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Speaker 2: And all of those are apparently easier to learn than English,

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because somebody once described English to me learning English to

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me is a language that chased other languages down in

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back alleys and beat them over the head to steal

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their words.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, they still their sneakers and then

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remove the laces and more what's left.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that fits an accurate description. And our conjugations

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are almost by accident if they make sense.

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Speaker 1: So yes, yes, yes, yes, that's all. It wasn't true.

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I remember being young person learning like English grammar and

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things like that, and like, well, because that's how from

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the language we stole it from. That's how it's done.

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But why why can't we do it based on the

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language grammar we have.

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Speaker 2: But what we do is the language and grammar we

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have everybody else. That's true.

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Speaker 1: Let's job some announcements, and I think we've got a

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call in the screening room right now. If you're watching

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and you're like, look at these two dumb dumbs on

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screen that don't believe in my God, let me tell

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you why my God exists. Call on in. The number

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is on the screen and down here at the bottom

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bar you'll be able to find it a call in,

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and we'd love to talk to you. Want to hear

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about your God. Doesn't matter what God concept, it is

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certainly no problem at all. But I'm going to read

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some announcements and then I think we've got one or

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two super chats and then we'll get our first caller, hopefully.

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The atheist experience is a product of the Atheist Community

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of Austin, a five oh one c three nonprofit organization

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dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism,

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and the separation of religion and government. Which I feel like,

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of those things, the separation of religion and government, we

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need so much.

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Speaker 2: We need so much of it, amenci brother, justin preach it.

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Speaker 1: The irony is so thick because the idea of the

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separation of church and government started as like a really

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strong Reformation idea, Like the early Anabaptists were like, no, no, no, no,

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we need to separate the church and the government. In fact,

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one of the seven confessions of early Anabaptism was that separation.

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They wouldn't even serve in the government.

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Speaker 3: And can we go back to that, I know, I know,

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like or at least can we stop the people who

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say that, you know, the Bible verses that talk about

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treating the foreigner within your borders.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am now hearing them say, well that means

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because that's only applies if you have strong borders. Like

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a fuck cheese my language. Did you hear that, where

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is that in the Bible? At least at least read

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the book right, at least read the New Testament and

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be the hippie dippy Jesus that's in there.

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Speaker 1: I made it up three sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Let's let's not be the Jesus Christ that

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the apparently the certain certain parties appear to think is

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there and it's not.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, we've got one super chat. Actually it

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looks like a super thanks from our friend Larry Beck. Larry,

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we really appreciate the ten dollars super thanks big w.

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I didn't see a message with it, but thank you

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for being here. It's great to see your friend. And

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it looks like we've got a caller in the call

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Q Chris, an atheist from Pennsylvania, wants to discuss the

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mindset of Young Earth creationism. We've got one in the

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screening room who has an argument that evil proves God

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is evil, but also that God exists, which I got

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to be honest, that sounds interesting when when when that

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call gets out of the screening room, I'll be intrigued

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to find out how they can prove that an evil

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God does indeed exist. Although to be fair, Jim. I

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think if if there's a god that exists, I feel

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like it has to be evil given the state of affairs.

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Speaker 2: Well, he can't be omnip or omnimment I won't. He

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can't be all three. Right, we know that that god

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is the triagomny God is logically impossible with However, you

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want to define evil, and I know you prefer suffering.

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I prefer evil, and I don't care how you define evil.

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So that's how I get around you know, what do you?

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How do you define you? I don't care you define it?

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You think it exists? Do people do bad things? Yes?

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They do, but there's no supernatural reason for it. So

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I think the first thing anybody who's got to do

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is prove the supernatural exists. Good luck with that. We

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have two thousand eight justin as God.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Maryland, crazy to see you today, friend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to start with the basics. Can you

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prove that the supernatural exists? If you're going to client

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that evil as a supernatural force exists, now, if you're

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going to find evil as the bad things we do, well,

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then yes evil exists because we know humans do bad things.

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Speaker 1: And fun fact before we bring in Chris, people really

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want to demonstrate that God doesn't do evil things. But

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interesting thing is, in the Hebrew the word for typically

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for evil or for bad is roughly the same, so

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roden Hebrew. There's a couple of ways that you could

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use other words, but really means the same thing, evil

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and badness. In fact, when God in Second Samuel twenty

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four is slaying seventy thousand Israelites because David took a

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census of the people, David says to stop the evil

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that the Angel of Yahweh is doing. So it's you

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can't really make a good linguistic claim that God isn't

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the author of evil because he says he created it,

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and also because he clearly does it in the book.

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But let's bring in Oh, sorry, what's up.

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Speaker 2: I was just going to say that having people commit

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genocide for you is evil, telling, you know, doing the

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whole psych thing, go kill your son for me, psych.

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Don't that's evil? Right? I'm sorry, It's just that that

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is not good, and intentionally inflicting PTSD on people because

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you're sending them to war because you got cranky, that's

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not right either.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, pretty much, let's get Chris into the conversation.

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Christ from Pennsylvania, Welcome in. Can you hear Jemini?

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Speaker 4: Yes so I can.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, we can hear you.

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Speaker 2: Chris.

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Speaker 1: What's in your mind? He says, you want to discuss

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the mindset of Young Earth creationists or did you want

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to discuss like a particular argument from Young Earth creationism.

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Speaker 5: Well, I growing up, I deconstructed over about ten years now,

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A big fan of your Deconstruction Zone.

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Speaker 4: You really do some great work.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, I remember going to a seminar and it's

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just the science stuff that they try to do. It

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becomes so convoluted, Like the geological layers they all say

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they like back at it, claimed that like oh, after

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the flood, everything was a slurry and the denser stuff

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and the ledger stuff, that's what makes it and that's

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what makes it happen so quick and whatever whatnot. You know,

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really twisting like you're not trusting radiocarbon dating. It's just

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you know, and then you have like the stuff like

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the art experience where they think that dinosaurs are on there.

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You know, it's just it's just nuts to me, that's all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you talk about their mindset It

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depends on who you're talking about. I think most Young

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Earth creationist Christians are just getting their stuff spoon fed

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to them. They're not actually critically thinking about it, and

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they don't have the time, i'm uh, nor the spoons

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to do so. But if you're talking about something like

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Kenham or some of these other organizations, I think at

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this point they're actively lying because they've been refuted so

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much online. People have posted so many papers refuting what

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they're saying online, you know, peer reviewed papers and stuff

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like that, that they have to know they're either deliberately

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they're they're deliberately ignorant or lying, and you know, either

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way it's just not good. But so again it depends

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on I don't want to paint with you brought a brush,

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because you know, we're all we're all human beings and

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we're all a little bit different. But I think that

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you know, if you wanted to put put this stuff

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into categories, you've got the folks who believe believable because

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that's what they're told by people they trust. And then

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you have the people that have trusted people who are

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most likely actively lying at this point.

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Speaker 5: Well, and then here's another topic too, real quick. But

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Justin's video, uh, I guess it was like last week

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or so. And I commented because the topic was original

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sin and why everything's deformed or just like sickness.

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Speaker 2: Happens or whatever.

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Speaker 5: But like I actually had a person I was in

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a rehab and.

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Speaker 4: I have Krohn's disease.

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Speaker 5: So he told me that CROs happened because of because

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of Adam and Eve's original sin. Okay, and I stopped

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believing that, like a long.

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Speaker 4: Long time ago.

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Speaker 5: And it's just like just the mindset of these people

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and how you know, if I were to believe in

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God and God gave me Crohn's disease and for a purpose,

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it would drive me nuts. When I stopped believing it

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figured out, you know, stuff just happens, I can definitely

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live a more peaceful life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Condemning somebody just because they were born before they

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have a chance to act and calling them evil and

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bad before they have a chance to actually prove themselves

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to me, is just wrong and evil. I don't know,

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what do you think, Justin?

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Speaker 1: So, like I understand that Christian's needs a reason to

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explain the suffering, like the diseases and all that nonsense.

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But if the if suffering and diseases or like natural

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disasters and whatnot, if those aren't entirely necessary for God

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to accomplish whatever goodness his end goal is, then then

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it still falls in the bucket of unnecessary suffering. Right,

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And as far as I'm concerned, causing someone to suffer

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unnecessarily breaks this idea of being completely just and being

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completely good and benevolent. So, like, you just can't have

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a God that causes unnecessary suffering unless you're willing to

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abandon that particular notion of God. If you're willing to

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abandon the idea that God is good, willing to abandon

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the idea that God is just, then you can get

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to a point where the world that we see around

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us mirrors some kind of a deity figure. But at

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that point, if, like, if God is evil, then who

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gets a shit? I ain't gonna worship that guy, and

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why would he care? If I'm what do I get

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by worshiping that guy? I have to trust that evil

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deity that he's going to do the right thing if

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I worship it as ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if your God is omnipotent, all suffering is

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needless pretty much, not only yea, but.

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Speaker 5: The science of everything, like you know, everything coming from

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Adam and e or like all the animals on New York.

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Speaker 4: Everything would be incests to.

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Speaker 5: Make everything happen.

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Speaker 6: It just doesn't make sense. And so I don't.

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Speaker 5: Understand how people can believe that.

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Speaker 4: That's all.

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Speaker 5: So I'm not going to take up too much more

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of your time, but that's all I wanted to really say.

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And then another thing on the algorithm of the YouTube,

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there's a lot of people speculating that the raptures come

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in and the end times and then they're they're they're

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putting out like the timelines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just like last decade and the decade before that,

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in the decade before that, in the century before that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, you know exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's nuts how the End Times of Prince that Jesus

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Christ as a supernatural entity didn't exist, right, because the

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End Times haven't happened. They're supposed to happen in his lifetime,

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so and they didn't. So guess what he was wrong?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, People, people thinking that they can predict it all

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the time is just like nuts to me, you know, like, oh, yeah,

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this is gonna happen.

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Speaker 4: It's going to happen, and.

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Speaker 2: Despite the Bible telling them that you can't predict it,

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if I'm not mistaken, justin, I don't know if I

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quoted that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, the Bible's tough because like Jesus clearly says,

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no man knows to dan or their hour, only the Father.

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But the problem is he also does give a hard

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cut off in Matthew sixteen saying that some of you

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standing here will not taste death until you see some

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men coming, and then Matthew twenty four says roughly the same,

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this generation will not pass away until all of these

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things happened, I mean the signs of the end and

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Jesus coming back with all the angels to judge. So

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like you get this weird dichotomy where his Bible was like, well,

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we don't know when he's going to come back, and

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then Jesus like, well we know kinda like I'm going

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to come back before this and this, right, But obviously

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Jesus didn't know either because he was wrong. So what

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you can do.

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Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Thank you, guys. I appreciate it, and

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I appreciate.

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Speaker 1: Shore them always tuning in you guys, have a good

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night at cheers, you have a good one.

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Speaker 5: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: We got next. Someone going by the name Fireman should

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be fun says claims that evil proves the God of

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the Bible exists, So we're going to get firemen next.

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Before we do that, let me grab the announcements and

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then Fireman, you're up next. Please like the video and

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subscribe to the channel. Enable your notifications comments below on

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between calls, and then we hit them after the show

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place for building community. And last, certainly not least, however,

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let's send a big thank you to the crew who

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puts the show together every week. We've got video operators,

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audio operators, note takers, college screeners, chat moderators. And remember,

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we get some wild people on these phone calls. They

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have to deal with the really wild ones they don't

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even make the cut, the ones that really just come

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in swing and that don't even make it to the

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phone calls. They're on the front lines, So thank you

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for that.

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Speaker 2: And then the one crew that's not on there is

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is Justin, who does not you Justin, but another the

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other one that does all of our email and handles

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all of our email coming in. And if you think,

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imagine how bad the callers that don't make it have

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to be, and then realize that the email folk are

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worse because we used to do that before. They push

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it all the way over to him, and he's got

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some folks working with him now too, but those folks

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take quite the beating as well.

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Speaker 1: So I can imagine you and I both know that

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the keyboard warriors, the ones that aren't willing to get

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on screen, there's no limit to what they'll say because

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they don't think anyone's going to do anything about it,

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or no one's going to hear it because of the

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private correspondence.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's get Fireman from Texas aptly name. I assume

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it's still hot down there. Fireman. Your claim is that

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evil or the existence of evil proves that the Bible

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God exists, And it's an interesting claim. I'm intrigued at least.

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The first question I would have though, is do you

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believe that the Bible Bible is true or do you

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just believe that the Bible God exists and there's like

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other gods too.

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Speaker 4: Well. No, I believe that the Bible is the truth,

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not not any other. That's the reason why my claim

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that I believe that evil exists according to the Bible.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you do believe that the Bible is true,

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you only believe in presumably the one true God, then.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that's the one you've got, the God

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of the Holy Bike.

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Speaker 1: Okay. And your argument is that the existence of evil

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in fact does prove that the Bible God is real.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And with that being said, do you.

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Speaker 1: Believe that the Bible? Do you believe that the Bible

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God is good or evil?

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Speaker 4: That he's good?

401
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: But I believe that, okay, so he is good?

402
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:42,079
Speaker 2: Yeah?

403
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Speaker 1: Well, listen, I know the Bible says he created everything.

404
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That seems pretty apparent from Isaiah forty five. So go

405
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ahead and give me the argument for why the but

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you think the Bible God is true, and we can

407
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we can go down that road together.

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Speaker 4: Well, I heard you earlier saying that the Bible itself

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and God was doing you may be considered evil. So

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I would like to ask you if no religion, let's say,

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if no religion exists, which you still say that things

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are evil and bad. Let's say that the world the

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same way it is, you know, with no religion, but

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you still make the claim that things are evil, good

415
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and bad or right and wrong.

416
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Speaker 2: It sounds like you weren't actually listening to what we

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said because you know the answer to that question already.

418
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So you know the answer is, we've already said that

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evil is a supernatural force does not exist. But people

420
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do things that are wrong and that do cause harm,

421
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whether intention or accidentally, and so yes, in that respect,

422
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evil does exist. So if you're going to say evil exist,

423
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I'm going to assume that you're making a supernatural claim,

424
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that supernatural evil exist, demon Satan and all that garbage.

425
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Speaker 4: No, not really, I'll explain to you what I mean now. Now,

426
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human humans, we're not their only life on earth? Correct,

427
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They're the other life on Earth.

428
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Speaker 2: Yeah. With that being said, yep, were you.

429
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Speaker 1: Under the impression that atheists didn't believe other things existed

430
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besides humans?

431
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Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I'm I'm just setting up my argument,

432
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you know, so we all we can certainly agree then

433
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humans right, Okay, so humans are not their only life

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on earth. They're also animals insects now, But that could

435
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we make could we make the claim in the animal

436
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kingdom or the insect that something to see evil?

437
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Speaker 1: So again, when we say evil, we don't believe in

438
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evil the same way you believe in evil. Right, So

439
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:29,160
when we say evil, we just mean it's bad or

440
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it's negative, and that's inherently a subjective measure like, there

441
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are things that I think are bad that some people

442
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might not realize or might not agree are bad. Right,

443
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So we're not making objective claims. We're making subjective claims.

444
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You're the one that probably believes in objective morals, not us.

445
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But I think the question I would have for you

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is can you show me where the objective morals are?

447
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Speaker 2: And I would just like to add that we see

448
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,720
in bacteria, bacteria strengths when they start cooperating and they

449
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,119
that another strain is cheating, they will actually stop cooperating

450
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with that strain. And so we see any type of

451
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social animal having some sort of the same morals we have,

452
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because if you're going to hunt together as a pack,

453
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you have to trust that your pack mates aren't going

454
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to turn you into food. So there has to be

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that kind of basic minimum trust. And we see that

456
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in nearly every social species that I'm aware of, we

457
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see some level of moral behavior or behavior we would

458
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call moral. So the answer your question is, yes, social

459
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creatures tend to have morals more or less than we do.

460
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We're probably to some extent the only ones who talk

461
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:47,000
about it as much as we do, but you know,

462
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we see it in dolphins. We see it in horses,

463
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we see it in dogs, we see it in all

464
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the great apes, and the chimpanzees. We see it in,

465
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like I said, every social species.

466
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Speaker 4: So okay, now I have heard the argument is that

467
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we are we are just animals. Every life on Earth

468
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is really no separation and no different This is an

469
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:09,920
argument I've seen to hear that we are all animals. Yeah, right,

470
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Is that something that age would say that we're just

471
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,680
animals going to Earth like any other ses?

472
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Speaker 2: Are we are highly social animals? Yes?

473
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Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think it's important to not mischaracterize what

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we're saying. We are animals, but we're not saying that

475
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:27,119
we're just like every other animal. I think every animal

476
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,400
has kind of its own unique features. And one of

477
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,400
the unique features we have our higher level of cognition

478
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:38,960
where we can do like pretty abstract thinking on moral concepts,

479
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,519
whereas I think other animals lack the cognitive ability to

480
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,559
do the same type of abstract thinking about morals. I

481
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:47,880
think they're more instinctual. So I think that's the thing

482
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,680
that sets us apart for the moral argument.

483
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: Now, now, and you know what, I don't want to

484
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,240
use the word moral good or bad. I want to

485
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,839
stick to ease because that's more to the point. Now, well, right,

486
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,119
I'll put it in. I'll put it in a question

487
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,680
for why I didn't.

488
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,039
Speaker 1: Hear the word that you said. You want to stick

489
00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:07,519
to what the word evil instead of moral evil?

490
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 5: Bad?

491
00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 4: Yeah?

492
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is why in the conversation are you

493
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,200
using the word evil to mean bad?

494
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 6: Yes?

495
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 4: Yes, because you know you will say that mold animals

496
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,319
have mold, but you still have I proved that there's evil.

497
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 2: I didn't say animals have morals. I said animals behave

498
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,880
in ways we would call moral. That's two completely different things.

499
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, well i'll put this in the poses as

500
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,359
a question to question to you why is evil only

501
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,279
relegated to human time and not other animals like dog, cats,

502
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,279
lions in the jungle? Why can't we.

503
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Again, I don't think you're listening. I don't think you're

504
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,880
listening at all to what I said, and you're not

505
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,680
actually interpreting. So I want you to hear me again.

506
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,480
Animals have behaviors that we interpret as moral, which means

507
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,319
they also have behaviors that are immoral, as we would

508
00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:05,480
consider immoral as well. So you know some chimpanzees have

509
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,119
sexual assault as part of what they do and how

510
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,279
they procreate. Others don't. So yes, and you will see punishments.

511
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:17,440
You'll see wolves who get thrown out of the pack,

512
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,240
same thing with all social animals. So evil what you

513
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,079
call evil, and I'm assuming you're not meaning supernaturally when

514
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,079
you're saying bad actions, bad behavior happens across the spectrum,

515
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,880
and that's expected from an evolutionary point of view. We

516
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,319
don't expect every animal to act the same or every

517
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,319
animal within a species to have the same behavior, just

518
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,200
very common sense of behavior. So if you listen to

519
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,359
what I'm saying and you actually try to interpret, you'll

520
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,359
see that you have already answered your question. But I

521
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,279
hope that answers it.

522
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 4: So would it be safe to say that you believe

523
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,160
that evil exists amongst animals and insect too?

524
00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:55,759
Speaker 2: Bad behavior exists, Evil is a supernatural force. Again, if

525
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:59,920
you're calling evil simply bad behavior, then yes, evil exists.

526
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:04,680
If you're considering evil to be an uh a supernatural force,

527
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:05,079
then no.

528
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: Okay. Now let me make sure it are penalty for

529
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:11,599
the evil amongst mankind. If I, if I, if.

530
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,599
Speaker 2: I with animals, same with animals.

531
00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 4: All right, so you're turning me a thelion. I'm not

532
00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:22,359
talking along social social construct.

533
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,599
Speaker 2: In fact, I have already stated and I don't think

534
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:28,119
you heard me, Let me state it again. We have

535
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,759
shown that two strains of bacteria that are cooperating, if

536
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:35,640
one of them detects the other strain is in fact cheating,

537
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,160
it will stop cooperating with that behavior at a bacteria level,

538
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,720
single cellar organism level. And we see the same thing

539
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,240
all the way up through. In fact, we'll see different

540
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:50,160
species of predators also cooperating and stop cooperating also within species.

541
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,640
So yes, we see the same range of moral behavior

542
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,079
or behavior that we will call moral and im moral

543
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,440
throughout everybody. I don't know how many times I have

544
00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:02,200
to say that. Why you keep questioning this, But it's

545
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:04,400
throughout the entire all animal kingdoms.

546
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: Yes, so there are consequences if another special killed another.

547
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,079
See you're talking about bactery.

548
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:13,559
Speaker 2: But did I just say that animal kingdom? Did I

549
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:14,119
just say that?

550
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 4: But listen, No, we didn't talk about animals though you

551
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,799
talking about bakka.

552
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:20,039
Speaker 2: I've been talking about animals the entire time. What have

553
00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:21,799
you been talking about? Have you not been listening?

554
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,559
Speaker 4: So you're saying that align with face consequences that you killed.

555
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: No one said that.

556
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,799
Speaker 2: I didn't say that. Now, I did say that that

557
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:34,000
some species of predator. I did say that some species

558
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:37,319
of predators cooperate and there'll be consequences that they violate

559
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,000
those cooperation rules. And it's also within the species. There

560
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,319
is no moral behavior between species, right, that we see

561
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,519
very often unless they're cooperating in some way. Now, prey

562
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:51,000
animals will also cooperate, where a prey animal will in

563
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,119
fact alert other prey animals, And we also see some

564
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,839
prey animals will cause an alert just to get the

565
00:28:59,119 --> 00:29:03,119
competing price species to move on so they can get

566
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,920
access to the food or water source themselves. So we see,

567
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,799
we do see some things like that, but it's you know,

568
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:12,599
we see that all the way through.

569
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 4: So right, So once you admit that morals and all

570
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,279
of these bird and bad, right and wrong depends on

571
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:22,400
where you are on the airth or would you what

572
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,599
would you guess more?

573
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:23,839
Speaker 6: All?

574
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a subjective opinion of the behavior. Yes, yeah.

575
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,599
Speaker 1: Also keep in mind what we said earlier, which is

576
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,200
that our ability to behave and react to moral behavior

577
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,720
is comparable to our ability to think abstractly. Right, So like,

578
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:45,079
there are certain animals who don't have deep moral codes

579
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,240
because they have almost no abstract thinking.

580
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:48,559
Speaker 4: Right.

581
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: The more high level intelligence you're able to obtain as

582
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,839
a species, the deeper your language evolves, the deeper your

583
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,960
moral systems and social structures evolve. And therefore we would

584
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,359
expect that human beings have a much more intricate moral

585
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,400
structure than say, like a lion or a gazelle.

586
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,359
Speaker 7: So, ultimately, what was right and wrong and evil in that?

587
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:10,039
Speaker 4: It's just your opin right.

588
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,079
Speaker 1: I started by saying that you wasted a half hour

589
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,440
to get that conclusion. We would have given you that freely.

590
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:19,519
In fact, we did. So, Like, there's no objective right

591
00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:21,720
and wrong? And want me to show you? Want me

592
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:25,519
to demonstrate why that's the case. Yeah, So if I

593
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,680
asked you, is it is it always in all cases

594
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,400
objectively immoral to sexually assault a woman?

595
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,799
Speaker 4: Yeah? I would say, is there ever.

596
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:38,599
Speaker 1: A case ever where it would be acceptable? I don't think, say,

597
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:41,960
is there ever a case where if a criminal did

598
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,559
a crime that we would punish the person by having

599
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:47,279
them cannibalize their own children?

600
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 4: No?

601
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so those would be objectively evil right, right.

602
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 4: And this is just at the end of the day,

603
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,119
it's still just vi opin.

604
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

605
00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well then you're agreeing that, So then you're agreeing

606
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,720
that you only have subjectives because the reality is both

607
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:06,319
of these two things are items that God himself does

608
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:09,880
and instructs other humans and invokes other humans to do.

609
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,279
What do you what do you remember of the David

610
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:13,519
and Bathsheba incident?

611
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,799
Speaker 4: I remember being that David David.

612
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: Ebo, right, What did he do?

613
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,759
Speaker 4: He had a man killed and took his wh.

614
00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:24,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, you nailed it, right, And so what did God

615
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,960
respond with? What punishment did he respond with? For David?

616
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 4: He cursed his family. He recurs born with a guy

617
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:33,920
that was striped in his family.

618
00:31:34,039 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first born to Bathsheba that died was

619
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,960
made sick for a week, then it was dead. And

620
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,440
then the secondary punishment was he had david wives taken

621
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,000
from him and sexually assaulted and says thus, say, it's

622
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,240
the Lord. I will raise up trouble against you from

623
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,759
within your own house, and I will take your wives

624
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:54,920
before your eyes and give them to your neighbor. He

625
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,720
shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. For you

626
00:31:57,759 --> 00:31:59,680
did it secretly, but I did this thing before. All

627
00:31:59,839 --> 00:32:02,319
is in broad daily. But you just told me there's

628
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,559
no good reason ever for a woman to be intentionally

629
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:06,480
sexually assaulted.

630
00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: No. No, now you're asked.

631
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,759
Speaker 1: Me, so, did God do evil or good?

632
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 4: You created that?

633
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:16,799
Speaker 7: Right or wrong is an opinion.

634
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,079
Speaker 4: So now if you asked me if some a mass shooting,

635
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,440
somebody just did imagine, you just.

636
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:25,359
Speaker 2: Made that God is good. You just you just made

637
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,480
the claim that God is good. We're asking you, in

638
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,240
the light of what Justin just said, to defend this

639
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:33,720
concept that God is good and that morals are objective

640
00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:37,440
because your God just acted in an moral way. According

641
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,880
to what you just said, You've agreed that your God

642
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,359
is good. You've agreed it sexual assaults is bad. And

643
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,799
yet here we have your all good God ordering something

644
00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:47,400
you think is bad. Defend it, all the people to

645
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:47,880
be killed.

646
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:48,759
Speaker 4: So what's your point?

647
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: Do you acknowledge that your God did evil?

648
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: No? No, he created evil, but he didn't do it.

649
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: Now I want to ask you, you.

650
00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: Did your God cause that punishment to happen?

651
00:32:59,079 --> 00:32:59,319
Speaker 2: Yeah?

652
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 4: Everything? He created everything.

653
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: So so if somebody causes a woman to be sexually assaulted,

654
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,119
are they the cause of the evil God created?

655
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: It all.

656
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:11,759
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that would have to.

657
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: Be to say again. Okay, So, so God is the

658
00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:19,000
cause of the ten wives of David being sexually assaulted? Right,

659
00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:23,240
so is causing somebody to go sexually assault some women

660
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:24,000
evil or good?

661
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,559
Speaker 4: Well, it is what it is and the reason why

662
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:27,279
I'm gonna.

663
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: Thinker is evil or good?

664
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,559
Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, the answer is either evil or good. Not

665
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,759
it is what it is. Quite avoiding. The question is

666
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:36,759
what you want it to be? Man, I can't say

667
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:37,720
what it is God is.

668
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm asking what you want it to be? Is it

669
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,400
good or is it evil?

670
00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:44,839
Speaker 2: Evil? Okay?

671
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,079
Speaker 1: So so then God was evil?

672
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 6: Yeah?

673
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, all right, Yeah, that's all you have to say.

674
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: Question Jesus say that God was evil or good? Because

675
00:33:57,119 --> 00:34:00,720
in Matthew Jesus says that nobody is good except for

676
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:01,160
the Father.

677
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,759
Speaker 4: Right on? You know, Now let me ask you a question.

678
00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:05,880
Since I answered to it, then we can get back today.

679
00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:10,199
Speaker 7: Now you said early that good evil, h right or wrong?

680
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 4: But bat is an opinion is a subjective. Now I'm

681
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,239
asking you if somebody committed a mass shooting or something.

682
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 7: And you asked me was that good or evil?

683
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 4: Was it right or wrong? And I say it was good?

684
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:23,280
It was a good thing, and that's my opinion. What

685
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,000
you called me crazy when you said you just saying

686
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,679
it's subjective, right, So what you say, I'm crazy if

687
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,760
I said that it was it was cool and it

688
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,480
was okay for staff. When when it's when it's yes.

689
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:37,159
Speaker 1: Because just because you're entitled to your opinion doesn't mean

690
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,000
that it's a good opinion. It can still be a

691
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,360
dog shit opinion. Like if I tell you that the

692
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:45,639
best jelly belly is obviously going to be the lemon

693
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,159
jelly belly and you say, no, I like the puke

694
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,440
flavored jelly belly. Listen, You're entitled the opinion, but it's

695
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,760
a dog shit opinion.

696
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,679
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And just just to recap here, you came

697
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,199
in saying that God was good, right, and that you

698
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,920
will prove that God exists, And you said that sexual

699
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,840
assaults is always bad. And we've shown that your God

700
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,960
is evil because your God ordered a sexual assault, ten

701
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,519
sexual assaults at the very least, if not more, throughout

702
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:13,599
the history of the Bible. So how where are you

703
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:15,199
going to go from there? How do you how are

704
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,159
you still believing in this or accepting this God as

705
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,920
good if he's doing evil? God can't be good ken

706
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:21,440
tre you.

707
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 4: What according to what you see, it's all opinion based

708
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,000
and nobody is just yes.

709
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: And you know what, Your concept of objective moral values

710
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,760
comes from the mind of your God. And one of

711
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,920
the key distinctions between objective and subjective is where does

712
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,159
it exist. If it exists outside of a mind, it's objective.

713
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,480
If it exists inside of a mind, it's subjective. And

714
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:49,400
guess what, All your morals exist inside the mind of

715
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,000
your God, and it's no better than any humans.

716
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,559
Speaker 4: Here's what you've got to understand.

717
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 2: So you don't even have objective moral values.

718
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: The whole thing about God is punishment for those bad diseases.

719
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:02,679
Speaker 2: So according to who's punishing God for the bad decision

720
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:04,800
of ordering the sexual assault of David's wives?

721
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 4: Exactly? Okay? If so, if there's no consequence with the what's.

722
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 7: The rhyme and reason of it all?

723
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: If I murder a person and I don't, that's what

724
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,440
we're asking you get anything.

725
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 6: What.

726
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: I'm not going to jail for ordering the sexual assault

727
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,719
at ten ten.

728
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 4: Wives, and there's no evil, all right?

729
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: I was not going to going to jail, and now

730
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:26,519
there's no evil and there's no right or wrong.

731
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:27,159
Speaker 4: It's simple.

732
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 7: You can't get around here now, now, Okay, that's that's show.

733
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,679
Speaker 2: You can't get around the same boat.

734
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're mischaracterizing what we've said. No one here is

735
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,360
claiming that there's objective right and wrong other than you.

736
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,199
What we're demonstrating to you is, uh, you don't really

737
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,480
have objective morals, because when we look at the book,

738
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,559
it's full of things that you would classify as immoral,

739
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:53,639
which means you're using your own subjective framework to judge

740
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,719
an objectively moral action. Like you said earlier that it's

741
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,480
always objectively immoral to do cannibalism. But in Jeremiah nineteen nine,

742
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:04,800
God makes it happen. He says, I will make them

743
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,199
eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of

744
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,119
their daughters, and they will eat the flesh of their

745
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,360
neighbors in the siege, in the distress with their enemies,

746
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,800
and so on and so forth. So again, you've determined,

747
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,719
using your own subjective rational thinking faculties that cannibalism is wrong,

748
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,840
which means you don't believe in objective morals. You're in

749
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,960
the same boat we're in. You believe in subjective morals.

750
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:30,079
You only think that you have objective morals when you don't.

751
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: Well, ultimately, I'm saying that there is no objective, there

752
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,480
is no evil and right or own objectively, there's no

753
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,639
yet well objective, I mean objectively, and if we can

754
00:37:41,679 --> 00:37:44,079
agree and we can agree on that, then we can

755
00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:45,639
agree somewhere, and that we.

756
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: Started on that agreement.

757
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, we started on that agreement. I'm just I'm just

758
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,199
still waiting for you to find your your original statement

759
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,039
that God was good people go to bay.

760
00:37:55,639 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 4: I thought you was making the argument.

761
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no no no no, no no no.

762
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,920
See once again you're not. You're demonstrating you can't listen,

763
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,639
or at least you can't remember earlier in the conversation

764
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,400
what we actually said, or you're intentionally twisting what we said.

765
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:12,039
So let's cover this again. Just you're clear, there is

766
00:38:12,119 --> 00:38:15,440
no such thing as a supernatural evil force. There is

767
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,199
such a thing as people acting badly and in in

768
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,599
moral ways, just as there is for every animal behavior

769
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:25,719
that we label we choose to label moral or im moral.

770
00:38:26,119 --> 00:38:29,039
So that's what we've said. So quick trying to twist

771
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,559
what we say or work on your memory skills.

772
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 4: Well, and I was just saying, I let you speak

773
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:37,679
so I could find out. And that's where we disagree.

774
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,440
I don't believe if there's no God, then there is

775
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,239
no good of bed right or wrong or anything. It's

776
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,280
just your old thing. It is how you feel, because.

777
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:48,519
Speaker 2: They've already agreed to that. Why are you restating stuff

778
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:51,400
we've already agreed to because we don't disagree with them a.

779
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 4: Different all right, that's what I'm saying. Maybe we agreeing

780
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,440
on that part. I'm trying to find out because therefore

781
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,880
there there it doesn't matter like open turnment that he

782
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,000
don't whatever over here we consider that could be wrong.

783
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:07,159
So it depends on where you went and what time

784
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:07,960
or day to you.

785
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: That's what we've already. We said that when we said subjective.

786
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,320
So why are you going on about this? This is

787
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,920
what we mean by subjectives. Yes, that's what we mean

788
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,599
by subjective. Congratulations, You've you're wasting time going on and

789
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:24,159
on about things that are subjective. But you said that

790
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:28,480
God was good, that evil exists, and you said that

791
00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:31,960
if you evil, for God to order a sexual assault,

792
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,039
and then we just showed you where he did. So

793
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,760
you've got a problem with your God being good.

794
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 4: I mean you did this apocrisy on both that maybe

795
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,960
you're right, but the thing is from hypocrisy.

796
00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: There's no hypocrisy on our side. So here you go,

797
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:50,719
you're either you're either completely you either can't remember what

798
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,599
we've already said, or you're trying to twist it. I

799
00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:54,920
don't know which of those things is going on here,

800
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:58,079
but there's no hypocrisy on our side. We are incredibly

801
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:02,480
consistent that all morals are opinion of someone's behavior period

802
00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:05,760
end of conversation, which means it's one hundred percent subjective.

803
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:08,480
Your morals are also subjective because they come from the

804
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,000
mind of your God. But you think your God is good,

805
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,679
and you have not reconciled for us how this works

806
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:15,239
in your head.

807
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 4: Well, you just you just helped me out. You said

808
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,199
that molds good and bad is in opinion, and seek

809
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,280
that's what we can agree. It's only in opinion. If I,

810
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,519
if I, if I step on a roach and kill

811
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:29,559
that roach, right, it's an opinion all Whether that was

812
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:31,760
right a row, it's still was a life and I

813
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,840
took the life now.

814
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 2: And there's an entirely there's a religion called Jaine is

815
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,280
and the thing stepping on insects is a bad thing. Yeah,

816
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,440
and there's there's a religion called Jains and the things

817
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,679
that a stepping on riches is a bad thing. What's

818
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,400
your point? Right? Are you going to admit that your

819
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,559
God is evil and is not all good? Is that

820
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:48,639
what you're doing? You're admitting that God is nothing more

821
00:40:48,639 --> 00:40:49,320
than an opinion.

822
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 4: All right, let's say let's say it to day I

823
00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:53,320
become an eight because I believe he is. What I'm

824
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,079
going to say that.

825
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 7: It is no good, right or wrong or evil, period,

826
00:40:57,039 --> 00:40:57,679
doesn't matter.

827
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:58,519
Speaker 4: Have a nice day.

828
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:00,559
Speaker 1: I'm objectively but not somebjectively.

829
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,119
Speaker 2: Yes, just be clear.

830
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: You need to delineate between objective and subjective. We do

831
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,840
believe that there is good and bad, but it's subjectively obtained,

832
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,639
like we have to use our own mind to get

833
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:15,719
to those inclusion and we can use objective means, we

834
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,840
can use measures, we can use statistics, we can use

835
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,079
things that do actually give us something to like sink

836
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:25,119
our teeth into. But the reality is we have to

837
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,000
use our minds to get there. And if we have

838
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:29,760
to use our minds to get there and analyze the situation,

839
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,159
it's still subjective. It's never going to be objective. But

840
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:36,960
the reality is until somebody can demonstrate that objective morals exist,

841
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,440
I have no reason to believe that they do. Like,

842
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,159
you can complain all you want how you don't like

843
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,199
subjective morals, but it will never make objective morals exist.

844
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:48,559
You're stuck in the same boat as us. I think

845
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:50,559
we lost them. I think he ran well.

846
00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:54,159
Speaker 2: Oh it shows you most still online, but let me

847
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:56,760
refresh and see. Yeah. I think you tried to Micropis

848
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:02,159
and so yeah, I think to Mike Drop. Too bad

849
00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:05,880
they didn't work for him.

850
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,639
Speaker 1: I'll show you you guys have subjective morals. Oh that's

851
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:10,239
news to me.

852
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was also surprised. It always surprises me when

853
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:16,920
someone says I haven't argument you never heard of before.

854
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,039
It's like, really, dude, do you know how often and

855
00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:20,800
how many people we talked to about this? And how

856
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,119
long you know we as a show have been doing this.

857
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,800
You know, you do hours of live streaming, You talk

858
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,679
to dozens, if you know dozens at least of people

859
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,440
every week, So you've talked to hundreds over your career.

860
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,320
Same here. Do you really think there's now a new argument?

861
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,960
So if you're gonna have if you're going to bring

862
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,239
an argument, try to bring a new one, don't, or

863
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,440
at least find out what the counters are to your

864
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:48,199
argument and have counters to that before you call it.

865
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: But have you considered maybe you didn't hear the klomb

866
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:52,840
just right. You need to hear it again.

867
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:54,679
Speaker 2: I don't need to hear the columb again.

868
00:42:56,159 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: But what about John three sixteen? I guess you John

869
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,800
three sixteen? At you?

870
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,679
Speaker 2: You could? Yeah, and you know, I'll go find the

871
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:20,239
verse about donkeys, Donkey, Dixon and semens, so you know, yeah.

872
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,639
But yeah, it's interesting too because we're talking about objective

873
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:28,440
versus subjective. And once we pick a subjective standard like

874
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,599
human happiness, because human happiness is something we can measure,

875
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:35,440
it's something we know how to affect. There's a really

876
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,000
good study by Harvard that they've been doing for more

877
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,599
than eighty years now on human happiness and what it

878
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:43,679
takes to be happiness. So if we choose human happiness

879
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,599
the popular entire population of humans as our subjective standard,

880
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,480
we can now take objective measurements and see how well

881
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:57,119
a particular action moves us towards the goal of more

882
00:43:57,159 --> 00:44:01,559
happiness or towards towards the anti eagle of less happiness.

883
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:04,239
We can see how that actually works, whether that action

884
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,400
is by a human uh you know, rockslide, bear, attack,

885
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:12,239
whatever it is, and we can measure that now, and

886
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,599
so we can have objective measurements of a subjective standard.

887
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,400
I agree, but I thought that was probably going to

888
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,039
be too much for him because he was having trouble

889
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:23,320
tracking what we were saying and then interpreting what we

890
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:23,800
were saying.

891
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: So I know it's difficult to track when you don't

892
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,440
listen to what the other person says. That this could

893
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:33,119
be me. I'm losing it. But let's grab a couple

894
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:35,920
of super chats and we'll get our next guest into

895
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,599
the box. We've got someone who appears, based on the

896
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:43,000
call screen to be a gnostic, so this should be fun.

897
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:46,360
Marylyn send in a super chat. Thank you so much,

898
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,840
Marylyn for five dollars. Maryland says, Justin is God? Well,

899
00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:56,920
I don't believe in God, but listen, we're happy to

900
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,599
have you here, Marylyn. I thought m Douglas and Doug.

901
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,360
Doug and Sharon are looking over us now. Actually you

902
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,280
can see them on the shelf, which is obviously the

903
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,079
Rocks of Ages behind us.

904
00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 2: So right, Yes, those are the spiritualized the Rock of

905
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,079
Ages Sesus with right.

906
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: Obviously, we had another super chat from Jay Langford for

907
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:29,239
nine ninety nine says thank you. Never stop promoting reality

908
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,880
and listen to Langford. We are with you. That's what

909
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,440
we're here for. We want to promote living in the reality,

910
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:38,719
not the dream world. And last run from our friend,

911
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,559
Actme Hero. Great to see. Actme Hero says, Jesus fulfilled prophecy.

912
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,159
Prove me wrong, Act Me Hero. Now you're trolling. We're

913
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:51,039
gonna have words later. Jesus did fulfill prophecies. As long

914
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:55,039
as by prophecies you mean zero zero prophecies, then we

915
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:58,119
can come to some form of agreement. Actually, I'll take

916
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:01,639
that he fulfilled one prophecy. He fulfilled the prophecy in

917
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,239
Deuteronomy thirteen when God said he would send a false

918
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,960
prophet and not to follow him because he's got to

919
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,239
test his people. Of course, but we've got uh, we've

920
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,719
got a theist, not not an atheist, but we have

921
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,320
a theist named Chuck waiting to get in all the

922
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,760
way from Hawaii that says they want people to know

923
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,559
that Jesus is the devil, true God is Jehovah. Chuck

924
00:46:26,599 --> 00:46:31,719
am I am I correct in assuming that you're some

925
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,360
kind of a gnostic or mercy Nite and that this

926
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:38,039
is you believe in, like the Demiurge and all that nonsense.

927
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 8: Oh no, no, no, no, no no no, I'm just

928
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:43,880
talking a god of the Bible, Jehovah. His name is

929
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,440
Jehovahl yhbh. And people, it's not to get rid of

930
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:52,000
it because because Christians want you to believe that their

931
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:56,039
god Jesus is the true God, and they want you

932
00:46:56,119 --> 00:46:57,360
to reject Jehovah.

933
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So the reality is the Old Testa manuscripts were

934
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,840
written without vowels. The Paleo Hebrew had imply vowel patterns,

935
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:11,480
and Yahweh, most likely from all scholarly reconstructions, would have

936
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,239
been produced pronounced as Yahweh. This idea that Jehovah is

937
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,719
the real name of God only becomes later. Massoretic scribes

938
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,000
added vowel pointers to the actual name of Yahweh in

939
00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:28,039
order to direct people to say ad deny rather than Yahweh,

940
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:30,239
as a way of protecting the divine name. If you

941
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,159
read the notes from the Massoretic scribes, this is quite obvious.

942
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,599
This is not something that is like revolutionary news. Anyone

943
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:42,559
who bothered to learn biblical criticism of the Hebrew Bible

944
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:48,320
knows this. The name of God is wh yhw h

945
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,159
or w vh, depending on what form of Hebrew you speak,

946
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,079
And it is not Jehovah. That's strictly a false claim.

947
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 8: Are you a Christian?

948
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: There were both antheater atheists experience. I don't know why

949
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,679
you'd expect us to be Christian's.

950
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:06,639
Speaker 8: Well, a lot of people you people there used to

951
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:07,960
be Christians, And.

952
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 2: I don't know how that responds to anything Justin said.

953
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,239
And I wish you would respond to what Justin just

954
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,679
told you rather than you're trying to go off on

955
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,119
some tangent.

956
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:22,519
Speaker 8: Exactly, Okay, y h v h is pronounced jah vah.

957
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:23,719
It's not a not.

958
00:48:24,599 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: That's not a refutation of anything Justin just told you.

959
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:28,280
Would you like him to repeat it?

960
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:33,639
Speaker 1: So to be clear, In classically Hebrew, the viov is

961
00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:37,960
actually a waw. It's pronounced waw, not viv. The v

962
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:42,119
vocalization is for modern Hebrew. So right off the jump,

963
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,239
Jehovah is not something that would have been in the

964
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,239
vocabulary of the ancient Hebrews. Or so they would have

965
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,199
put a bait in there rather than a wah. So,

966
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,400
right off the jump, you've got a problem. That's not

967
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,280
how to pronounce it. The second problem are the vale pointers,

968
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,559
the vowel pointers that make it Yehovah. Those val pointers

969
00:49:00,639 --> 00:49:04,400
don't exist originally in Hebrew. Those are added later by

970
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,639
Massic scribes, the first of which didn't even exist until

971
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,960
two hundred years after Jesus died. And if you read

972
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:15,239
the notes from the Masteric scribes, it's not even a question.

973
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:20,599
The reason why Jehovah appears is because they put vowel

974
00:49:20,639 --> 00:49:26,239
pointers onto the consonants to lead the reader to pronounce

975
00:49:26,519 --> 00:49:30,599
ad deny rather than pronouncing the name Yahweh, as a

976
00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:33,119
protection of the divine name. The same reason and why

977
00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:37,159
the Greek septuagent says Hakirios, meaning the Lord, rather than

978
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:40,239
the name of Yahweh, the same way the English Bibles

979
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:43,719
say the Lord all mini caaps rather than saying the

980
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,119
name of Yahweh. These are all conventions to protect the

981
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:50,519
divine name from being misused or mispronounced.

982
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 8: Well, the Jews, Jehovah is the God of the Jews.

983
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,639
Speaker 2: And the Jew you restated, you restading your claim is

984
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:04,239
not responding to the vast knowledge of how he the

985
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,400
Hebrew language works. Did you understand anything about what he said?

986
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,519
Can you? Can you explain what a vowel pointer is

987
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:13,280
or what a vowel indicator is.

988
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're just trying to get off the point you're

989
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:16,599
trying to get off.

990
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,679
Speaker 2: No, that is the point. You're reading the language wrong.

991
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,840
You're reading the language wrong. Listen to Justin and he

992
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,519
will tell you how to properly read the language. So

993
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:29,039
you know how to properly pronounce the words in Old Hebrew.

994
00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: Trust me, like you can just for example, like a

995
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:38,960
conservative Christian scholar like doctor Michael Brown. Doctor Michael Brown,

996
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:42,039
he went to school for Semitics, he will tell you

997
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:46,480
the same thing. Doctor Michael Brown has done this explanation

998
00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:48,719
many times. He's not an atheist, He's not trying to

999
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,840
poison anyone's mind. He's a real Christian, you know, biblical scholar.

1000
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:56,639
So like, I'm not saying anything like ground shaking here.

1001
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,840
This is what everybody in the field already knows. So

1002
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:03,840
I don't want to waste the whole call on the

1003
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,239
fact that Jehovah isn't the name of God, because I

1004
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,639
feel like that's not what you came for. I feel

1005
00:51:08,639 --> 00:51:11,760
like what you came for is to explain how Jesus

1006
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,320
is actually evil. Jesus is the devil and Jehovah is

1007
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,320
the real God. Is that what you wanted to come for.

1008
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,679
Speaker 8: Well, that is true. Jesus is the devil. Christians worship

1009
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,199
the Satan, the devil.

1010
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: So that's the argument I'm curious about. Can you give

1011
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,840
me that argument because I'm most interested to hear how

1012
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,800
you put this one together? Okay, go here right right?

1013
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,920
So where DoD you What Bible support do you have

1014
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:38,199
that would point me towards the idea that Jesus is

1015
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,639
in fact Satan Because Jesus refers to Satan in very

1016
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,519
negative terms. It seems like he would have like split personality.

1017
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:49,840
And who was he talking to in the desert in

1018
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,599
when he's in there for forty days being challenged by Satan?

1019
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:54,760
Is he challenging himself?

1020
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 8: That was probably the devil interrupted him, the devil on

1021
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:01,920
a Mascus, and then took him off into the most

1022
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,480
of most of his writings, all most of his writings

1023
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:10,519
about bringing forth religion Christianity, most of it comes from

1024
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,039
Hinduism and Hinduism there is one god, Brahmand, but he

1025
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:18,360
is a trinity. So the Christians have a trinity which

1026
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,639
is not in the Bill and is not old.

1027
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Hindus are not monotheistic by any stretch of

1028
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:32,159
the imagination, too, are a polytheistic or religion by far.

1029
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,679
So I just I don't know where you get that

1030
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,679
at all. That just seems to be really wack Johnny

1031
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:39,199
out there.

1032
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 8: And Hinduism there is one god, Brahma.

1033
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,119
Speaker 1: Just just to be clear. In Christianity, the follow a

1034
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:51,760
long chuck. In Christianity, Satan is the devil. It's explicitly

1035
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:56,079
stated in Revelation twelve nine, in Revelation twenty two, where

1036
00:52:56,119 --> 00:52:59,480
it says the great dragon was thrown down that ancient

1037
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,280
serpent who has called the devil and Satan. Right, So

1038
00:53:03,679 --> 00:53:07,840
the devil and Satan are in fact the same individual.

1039
00:53:08,159 --> 00:53:10,199
Speaker 8: There you go, Yeah, they're both the devil.

1040
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 1: When the devil ch challenged Jesus in the wilderness, the

1041
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,119
devil was Satan. The devil and the Satan are the

1042
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:22,519
same individual, which means it couldn't be Jesus.

1043
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 6: Sure can't.

1044
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 8: You're talking about you're talking about the son of Mary.

1045
00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:31,599
Speaker 6: That is not Jesus.

1046
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,039
Speaker 8: His name is Joshua. That's a Christian god.

1047
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: Okay, listen, nobody cares how you pronounced the names. None

1048
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,400
as that is relevant. Like everybody who's went to like

1049
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:49,559
even like five Bible studies knows that the name Jesus

1050
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:54,159
is multiple transliteration layers away from the actual name of Jesus,

1051
00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:56,360
which would have been ye host Show in the long

1052
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,239
or Yeshua in the short. No one cares about that.

1053
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,880
That's a useless conversation. When I say Jesus, you know

1054
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,800
who I mean. So what I'm trying to figure out

1055
00:54:06,039 --> 00:54:10,239
is how you're figuring that Jesus, the son of Mary,

1056
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:13,880
the adopted son of Joseph. How you came to the

1057
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,960
conclusion that that individual is the same as Satan. That's

1058
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:18,639
what I want to know.

1059
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:22,679
Speaker 8: No, that's not what I said. There are two individuals here.

1060
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,159
In the first place, there's the Christian god Jesus. But

1061
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:31,400
on the other hand, there is the son of Mary.

1062
00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:34,800
His name is Joshua. His name is not Jesus. These

1063
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,760
are two separate individual beings. The one is the son

1064
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,679
of Mary, and the other one is the god of

1065
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,280
Christianity named Jesus.

1066
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: But he's the devil that is Mary, So, Chuck, can

1067
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,639
you read the original? Have you read any of this

1068
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,920
in the original, in the Greek or the Jewish? I

1069
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,039
don't you read read? As the one arguing with somebody

1070
00:55:01,039 --> 00:55:04,960
who can't. Justin actually learned how to read ancient Hebrew,

1071
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:08,840
and he's telling you that your pronunciations are wrong. So

1072
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:12,000
why are you what are you basing any of this on?

1073
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:14,960
Because Justin is basing it on scholarship and knowledge of

1074
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,760
the language, you appear to be basing this on a

1075
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:23,159
hallucination or smoking entirely too much. I'm jay, I don't

1076
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:25,360
know which. So where are you getting this from? And

1077
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,239
why are you arguing with somebody who can actually read

1078
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:28,000
the ancient Hebrew?

1079
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:29,079
Speaker 6: Well, look at the Bible.

1080
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,119
Speaker 2: To read the Bible, he is, he's reading the ancient

1081
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,360
Hebrew Bible. What part of that did you not understand?

1082
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 8: His name is not Jesus the Son of.

1083
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 2: Again, you're pronouncing it wrong. You're pronouncing it wrong. What

1084
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,400
part of you can't read the original language and therefore

1085
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,960
can't seem to understand that you aren't pronouncing any of

1086
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,000
these names correctly?

1087
00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:52,519
Speaker 8: Look at the English Bible. It certainly is.

1088
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:53,119
Speaker 6: We're not.

1089
00:55:53,559 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 2: No, okay, we're not talking about the English Bible. We're

1090
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,280
talking about the original ancient Hebrew.

1091
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:03,079
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's back up, Chuck, Let's just back up. Okay.

1092
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:06,840
So the name, the name Jesus is a transliteration from

1093
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,760
the Greek, which is is Sue is Sue with a

1094
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:15,000
transliteration from the Hebrew from Yeshua. And there's a lot

1095
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,400
of reasons why you end up with an s at

1096
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,559
the end of it, because there's nominal endings in Greek

1097
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,079
and they don't match the same nominal endings in Hebrew.

1098
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:26,599
That's just a whole different discussion we don't need to have.

1099
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,760
So the reality is, when we read Jesus in the English,

1100
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,960
we know that this gets traced back to Esue in

1101
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:39,000
the Greek, and it also gets traced back to Yeshua

1102
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:42,320
in the Hebrew. Nobody cares about that argument. That's not

1103
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:46,239
a valuable argument. It doesn't add anything to our conversation.

1104
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,440
What I'm trying to figure out is the identification of

1105
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:54,519
this particular individual and how it relates to the Satan figure.

1106
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:57,440
Because what you're trying to tell us is that, first

1107
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,920
of all, there's two people that have the named Jesus,

1108
00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:04,320
obviously not in English, it's not written in English or

1109
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,960
using English. You're saying there's two Jesuses, one of them

1110
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:11,039
is Satan. I want to know where you get this

1111
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:11,920
idea from.

1112
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 6: In Romans, in the Hebrews.

1113
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: Okay, take me to the verse.

1114
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:17,519
Speaker 6: In a Christian book.

1115
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 8: I don't know verse, but it says that human sacrifice

1116
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:28,199
This god, Jesus of the devil, Christian God demands human

1117
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:31,639
sacrifice and he says that we only care.

1118
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: How do you know Roman says this? If you can't

1119
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,360
give us chapter and verse, are.

1120
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:39,599
Speaker 1: You referring to Hebrews nine, the Book of Hebrews, because

1121
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:42,719
something comparable to that shows up in the Book of Hebrews.

1122
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:46,159
Speaker 8: Hebrews is from the Devil too. Hebrews says that there's

1123
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:51,239
no salvation without human sacrifice, without human bloodshed.

1124
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:55,079
Speaker 2: Okay, chapter and verse. Oh wait, you can't give us

1125
00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:58,000
chapter and verse. You're literally just are you a troll?

1126
00:57:58,159 --> 00:57:59,400
Are you trolling us right now?

1127
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: Are you acculating your stuff up?

1128
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,719
Speaker 2: That sounds good to see what howell or react? Because

1129
00:58:04,719 --> 00:58:06,840
I think that's what you're doing. I can't believe that

1130
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,119
someone who apparently has such strong beliefs can't actually give

1131
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:14,000
his chapter and verse and can't actually defend any of

1132
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,159
the things that he's saying. I mean, really, dude, you

1133
00:58:17,199 --> 00:58:21,000
can do better in this. I'm disappointed, Yes, you are disappointed.

1134
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 8: You're not paying any attention, you're not discussing, and you're

1135
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:25,480
not looking at anything.

1136
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 6: I don't know that.

1137
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:28,599
Speaker 1: You're giving anything to look verse.

1138
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: You can't give us chapter and verse to go look at.

1139
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,639
And Justin is talking about exactly what you're saying. He's

1140
00:58:34,679 --> 00:58:37,159
been saying over and over again. You have no idea

1141
00:58:37,239 --> 00:58:40,199
what you're talking about. That you don't understand the ancient

1142
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:43,280
Hebrew and therefore you don't understand where the words come

1143
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,039
from that you're pronouncing and why you're pronouncing them wrong.

1144
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:50,440
So we're talking about exactly, we're on point. You're all

1145
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,239
over the place. So can you give us chapter and

1146
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,639
verse for anything you said?

1147
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 6: Well, in Romans it says.

1148
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:03,159
Speaker 2: Where chapter and verse Romans? What that?

1149
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:04,639
Speaker 8: Do you realize that?

1150
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,239
Speaker 6: Do you realize that.

1151
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:11,199
Speaker 1: Romans Romans who did not give him the proper preparation

1152
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,719
for this discussion? So, I mean, listen, we know for

1153
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,840
a fact that the New Testament Jesus needed to be sacrificed.

1154
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,400
No one's questioning that. We know Jesus needs to be sacrificed.

1155
00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:25,800
I don't know why that matters.

1156
00:59:26,199 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 8: Human sacrifices in abomination, not the Christians.

1157
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,039
Speaker 1: God demands it.

1158
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 8: We human sacrifice.

1159
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:37,519
Speaker 1: God demands it in the Book of Exodus, and Ezekiel agrees.

1160
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:41,320
Ezekiel agrees that God demanded child sacrifice in the desert.

1161
00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:43,079
Speaker 4: What God that.

1162
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,679
Speaker 8: Will not demand human sacrifice?

1163
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: Hold on, Justin's about to hear about the Bible right

1164
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:49,239
between your eyes.

1165
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:53,039
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we're gonna go to Ezekiel twenty three. I

1166
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:55,639
think we want about twenty four to twenty five about

1167
00:59:55,679 --> 00:59:59,360
there in that chapter. Let's see. I think it's Ezekiel

1168
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:04,239
twenty three or is the chapter we want? Yeah, but

1169
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,320
give me one second. I apologize. Maybe I typed in

1170
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,280
the wrong chapter. I may make sure in chapter.

1171
01:00:10,079 --> 01:00:14,679
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five through twenty six.

1172
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: Twenty not twenty three. I apologize. That's my faulty memory.

1173
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:21,199
Twenty three twenty five or twenty twenty five.

1174
01:00:21,679 --> 01:00:25,079
Speaker 2: It's chapter twenty verse twenty five twenty six, I believe

1175
01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:25,880
is where you're looking.

1176
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:29,119
Speaker 1: Yes, says Moreover. I gave them statutes that were not

1177
01:00:29,239 --> 01:00:32,559
good and ordinances which they could not live. I defiled

1178
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:34,920
them through their very gifts, in their offering up of

1179
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,159
their firstborn in order that I might horrify them so

1180
01:00:38,199 --> 01:00:40,519
that they might know that I am the Lord. And

1181
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,719
it gets worse than that. In Levitico's twenty seven he

1182
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,039
demands human sacrifice as well.

1183
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,079
Speaker 8: No, that's not true.

1184
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: Bible verses. He's reading right out of the Bible. Dude,

1185
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:53,320
do you how can you say?

1186
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 6: No?

1187
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 2: See, this is the difference between you and Justin. You

1188
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,840
can't give this chapter and verse or anything you said,

1189
01:00:59,039 --> 01:01:01,199
and Justin's over here giving you chapter and verse for

1190
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:04,519
his clients. So who should we believe? Someone who can't

1191
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:06,280
give us chapter and verse in the Bible or someone

1192
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:06,800
who can.

1193
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 8: Well human sacrifices in a nomination says in the Bible.

1194
01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:14,199
Speaker 1: But your God orders It sounds like you've just figured

1195
01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:16,000
out that there's contraditions in the Bible.

1196
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 6: That's not what you read.

1197
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 8: You read that you got give your first born to God.

1198
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:26,599
It doesn't say that sacrifice him to you.

1199
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:29,159
Speaker 2: Guys, own, Yes, that's exactly what it means.

1200
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: I'll read it again, don't worry. I mean, we can

1201
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,960
read it as slow as we need to. We're not

1202
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:39,599
in a rush. If you go to Ezekiel, Chapter twenty

1203
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,519
verse twenty five and twenty six. God explicitly states that

1204
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:45,440
he told them to do a thing, and then he

1205
01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:48,199
tells them what the thing is. Right, so let me

1206
01:01:48,239 --> 01:01:51,679
grab it again after my mosk starts working, says I

1207
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,599
defiled them through their very gifts in offering up of

1208
01:01:55,719 --> 01:01:59,400
all their first born in order that I might horrify them.

1209
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:03,480
The offering up the firstborn is child sacrifice, which is

1210
01:02:03,559 --> 01:02:04,800
rooted in Exodus.

1211
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:08,039
Speaker 8: Ask that guy Brown you were talking about, Ask him

1212
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:10,760
if that's what he says. That God is not here

1213
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,079
human sacrifice.

1214
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 1: He's not here.

1215
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 8: Time, but get in touch with him sometimes.

1216
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,679
Speaker 1: I don't think that's something he cares to talk about

1217
01:02:19,679 --> 01:02:19,960
with me.

1218
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 2: And you're deflecting from the fact that justin just hits

1219
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,599
you between the eyes with verse that says child sacrifice,

1220
01:02:26,599 --> 01:02:29,920
and you're over here screaming child's human sacrifice is evil,

1221
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:33,000
and yet your God is commanding it. Whichever God you

1222
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:34,960
believe in, it doesn't really matter at this point whether

1223
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,000
you think Jesus is the devil or not, because you've

1224
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:41,880
got God over here commanding human sacrifice, which you are

1225
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:45,239
very vocal in saying that it's evil. So now you've

1226
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,760
got a problem. Don't you care to try and get

1227
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:48,639
yourself out of it?

1228
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,599
Speaker 8: Oh, the Bible does not say that God demands human sacrifice.

1229
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:56,440
That the lie is saying just because of you. If

1230
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,599
you give your first born to God, that doesn't mean

1231
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:00,840
sacrifice him.

1232
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't say off it says that. It literally uses

1233
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,039
the same verb in Hebrew bajarbi I'm sorry, baja beer,

1234
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:12,840
which means to pass through the fire. The same thing

1235
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,360
Jeremiah accuses them of doing is passing your children through

1236
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:21,559
the fire. Offering up is a gentle English translation. It's

1237
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:23,159
a fire sacrifice.

1238
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 8: No, no, no, yes, crazy, you asked that guy you

1239
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,360
were talking about Brown's Brown.

1240
01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 2: Has nothing to do with us. We're justins once again

1241
01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:40,199
beating you up with knowledge, and he's pointing out that

1242
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,119
what the words mean is child sacrifice. Offer up is

1243
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,519
just euphemism for child sacrifice.

1244
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 6: It does not You guys are crazy.

1245
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:54,039
Speaker 8: That's that guy Brown, that's any any theologian, anybody, if

1246
01:03:54,199 --> 01:03:56,360
God demanded human sacrifice.

1247
01:03:56,559 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: We don't what theologians have to say, because they're going

1248
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:03,000
to interpret whatever way they want to make a theological point.

1249
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,800
We're interested in what the words actually say. We're interested

1250
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,920
in the context, which is something that you Christians keep

1251
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,800
beating us up for is not having the Rite context.

1252
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,480
And here we are giving you the context, and you're

1253
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:17,239
just putting sticking your fingers in years ago. Uh right,

1254
01:04:17,519 --> 01:04:20,840
you're the guy who can't seem to give us chapter

1255
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,159
and verse to to support anything you said. And here

1256
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,440
just is not only giving you chapter and verse, he's

1257
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,199
also giving you a language lesson. You can stick your

1258
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:31,880
fingers in years ago all you want, but doesn't change

1259
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,719
the fact that you're God ordered or wanted desired human

1260
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,880
sacrifice A lot change it.

1261
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 8: You're about by Jim, Have you considered Uh yeah, prove it,

1262
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:46,360
Prove that we're lying.

1263
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 2: Prove that anything that Justin has read to you or

1264
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,880
told you about the language is wrong. And given your

1265
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,079
track records so far, I would I'll set the bar

1266
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,519
very low. Can you even get close to telling us

1267
01:04:59,519 --> 01:05:00,280
what you are digital?

1268
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 8: Hebrew was a Bible says human sacrifice is an abomination?

1269
01:05:05,719 --> 01:05:10,119
Speaker 2: Chapter and verse. Chapter and verse. Please, chapter and verse.

1270
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 8: You're an Why are you worried about versus Bible and

1271
01:05:14,599 --> 01:05:15,280
Bible in there?

1272
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:15,679
Speaker 4: Anyway?

1273
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 2: I'm asking you to prove your claim. You can't prove

1274
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,760
your claim at all. All you over here doing is

1275
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,639
attempting to preach, and we're beating in Justin's over here,

1276
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,119
throwing Bible verses at you, hit you between the eyes,

1277
01:05:28,199 --> 01:05:30,400
and you're just a stunned ox trying to figure out

1278
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,199
what the hell? Where the hell to guess. All you've

1279
01:05:32,199 --> 01:05:37,199
got is uh and you're lying and nothing else, which

1280
01:05:37,239 --> 01:05:41,360
is what you've had this entire call nothing. You can't

1281
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,480
give us chapter and verse for anything you said, everything

1282
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:47,360
we said, We've given you chapter everything Justin said, we've

1283
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,760
given you chapter and verse. Can you give us chapter

1284
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:51,559
and verse and prove that we're lying?

1285
01:05:51,679 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 8: What kind of atheists are you, guys anyway that you're

1286
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,800
arguing on the fiber of the Bible.

1287
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: No, So it's a yes, it's a yes or no question,

1288
01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:03,320
yesterd no question. Can you give us chapter and verse

1289
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,480
for anything that you've said?

1290
01:06:04,719 --> 01:06:07,679
Speaker 6: Romans? Romans says Jesus is the chapter.

1291
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 2: That's the book. I didn't ask for the book. I

1292
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,360
asked for chapter and verse. So good, you got the book.

1293
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:14,760
Where's the chapter in verse? Buddy?

1294
01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 6: Kind ofly is?

1295
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 8: Are you guys?

1296
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: Anyway?

1297
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 8: You're not?

1298
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:23,639
Speaker 2: Eightius Dodge, dodge, whack and whack you again. We want

1299
01:06:23,719 --> 01:06:26,039
you give us the book Romans. We want the chapter

1300
01:06:26,119 --> 01:06:26,519
and verse.

1301
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,159
Speaker 6: Ah, you're an atheist.

1302
01:06:28,159 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 8: Why are you worried about verses and the body?

1303
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 2: Because because I think you're making shit up to suit yourself,

1304
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:37,920
and I want you to defend your position.

1305
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 8: Well, the Bible says humans sacrifices demand by the Christian

1306
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,960
God and that there is no salvation.

1307
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 2: Chapter and verse. Humans don't give us Romans. Give us

1308
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,239
Romans chapter and verse to prove what you're saying. You

1309
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,000
keep making the same claims over and over again, and

1310
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:58,400
you keep dodging the question. So I want chapter and verse.

1311
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:01,480
Otherwise everything you say is a lie and you're a liar.

1312
01:07:01,719 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: You guys are crazy.

1313
01:07:03,199 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 8: You know you're.

1314
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:10,119
Speaker 2: Doing You're dodging again, answer the question. Can you give

1315
01:07:10,199 --> 01:07:11,440
us chapter and verse?

1316
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 6: You don't need?

1317
01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 2: Are you lying?

1318
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,599
Speaker 6: Bible says that Jesus chapter.

1319
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 2: And verse or you're lying chapter and verse or you're lying.

1320
01:07:24,119 --> 01:07:25,239
Speaker 8: You guys are crazy.

1321
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:29,559
Speaker 1: Okay for asking you to quote the Bible to us.

1322
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just gonna keep doing this over and over again.

1323
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,960
He has nothing to support any of his clans.

1324
01:07:38,119 --> 01:07:43,679
Speaker 1: You control vibes, yeah, kind of sort of. So anyway, Well,

1325
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:45,400
I'm going to ask you one more question, Chuck, and

1326
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,480
then we're going to move on to to an adult

1327
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:54,159
that's not in concussion protocol. Did God sacrifice Jesus? Did

1328
01:07:54,599 --> 01:07:55,840
Jehovah sacrifice?

1329
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,039
Speaker 2: Yes? You will no?

1330
01:07:57,239 --> 01:07:59,599
Speaker 1: Okay, just checking, all right? So you don't believe Romans

1331
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:03,519
because Roman says the opposite, says in Romans three twenty five,

1332
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:06,679
God put forward a sacrifice of atonement by his blood

1333
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:12,599
effective through faith, referring to Jesus. So Jehovah's god, Jesus

1334
01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:13,679
was a sacrifice.

1335
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:18,520
Speaker 2: The Romans is from the devil. But weren't you just

1336
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,000
quoting Romans? Weren't you just quoting We're saying Romans said something,

1337
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:25,239
and now you're saying Romans is from the devil? Wow?

1338
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:31,039
Are you concussed? Both things can't be true, right. You

1339
01:08:31,119 --> 01:08:33,600
can't say that Romans says something and then say Romans

1340
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,399
is from the devil. It doesn't make any sense.

1341
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: So sacrifice is an abomination until God does it.

1342
01:08:40,279 --> 01:08:44,239
Speaker 8: He got you know, you guy, your mental reading there book.

1343
01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 2: To you, that's all you've got. Wow, you have nothing.

1344
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,520
You're a You're a giant nothing burger of nothingness.

1345
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 1: Is the book of revelation from God. No, from the

1346
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,159
book in the Bible is from God.

1347
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 8: All of the writings of all are from the devil.

1348
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: So only Paul. Oh, no, Paul, So which ones are

1349
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:05,479
from God?

1350
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 6: The other ones.

1351
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: Like the Gospels?

1352
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh, don't dude, You don't since the trap the Chuck's

1353
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,880
land for or excuse me that Justin's land for you, Chuck.

1354
01:09:16,079 --> 01:09:18,439
Do you think there's a Bible version or that Justin

1355
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,159
can't quote to you to prove that your God is

1356
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:22,880
not what you think he is and that you are

1357
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:24,239
full of nothing.

1358
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 8: I know Jesus the Devil book from both, Paul.

1359
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 2: But you said that Jesus is the devil because of Romans,

1360
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,000
and you said Romans is of the devil. So guess what.

1361
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:36,800
Both things can't be true. Romans cannot be both true

1362
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,880
and not true at the same time. That's logically impossible.

1363
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,800
And that's exactly what you're claiming. And now that we've

1364
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,039
got you, now that Justin keeps firing these Bible bombs

1365
01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:48,640
at you, and he keeps exploding your brain into nothingness,

1366
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,760
now you're trying to dodge it. Was saying, well, all

1367
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,039
the rest of them, because you can't give us chapter

1368
01:09:54,079 --> 01:09:56,359
and verse, which means you haven't studied the Bible at all.

1369
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even the Gospel Mark A thirty one says

1370
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,239
that he began Jesus taught them that the son of

1371
01:10:02,279 --> 01:10:05,000
man must undergo great suffering and be rejected by the

1372
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,960
elders and the chief priests and describes, and be killed,

1373
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,039
and after three days rise again. So Mark's not from

1374
01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:11,600
God either.

1375
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:13,560
Speaker 6: Mark. Oh, yes, he was.

1376
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 8: He was killed, He was.

1377
01:10:17,159 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: Sacrificed cross.

1378
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,359
Speaker 6: He was nailed to the cross.

1379
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,520
Speaker 8: And he died sacrificed, but for sin, not a human sacrifice.

1380
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,199
Speaker 1: Listen. If he got sacrificed and he's a human, that's

1381
01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:31,520
human sacrifice. This is how words are. But listen, we're

1382
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,800
running out of time. We've got to uh. I mean,

1383
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,079
as enjoyable as this is, we've got a caller who's

1384
01:10:39,119 --> 01:10:40,960
been waiting for quite some time. I want to hear

1385
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:45,239
their thoughts before we end the show. But Chuck, listened,

1386
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:49,000
you've been here for twenty eight minutes. I've enjoyed all

1387
01:10:49,399 --> 01:10:51,800
one minute of it. I appreciate you calling in. Do

1388
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,600
call back. It was a it was if anything interesting,

1389
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,880
it was new. As I say, the stuff that came

1390
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,640
out of your mouth, these are things that I don't

1391
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:02,439
know if I'll over here.

1392
01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 2: Again, and I hope we don't, but if you do,

1393
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,319
call back, try and come back with chapter and verse

1394
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,239
and try to be able to defend your your claims,

1395
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:13,920
because they're pretty outlandish and they certainly don't jibe with

1396
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,319
anything we know about the Bible. So good luck.

1397
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: Can you leave that guy's wild?

1398
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,359
Speaker 2: He had to have been on something.

1399
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:25,039
Speaker 1: There's something going on there.

1400
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think he's ever read the Bible honestly,

1401
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:30,800
much less actually studied it.

1402
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:36,079
Speaker 1: So but he did his own research, I'm sure on YouTube.

1403
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 2: If I had to guess, honestly, I don't think it

1404
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,800
was even I don't know how you what apology is

1405
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:49,119
to spouting this BS. I'm saying, I'm trying to figure

1406
01:11:49,119 --> 01:11:50,920
out where he could have gotten it from, and I'm like,

1407
01:11:51,239 --> 01:11:58,119
I have no idea. There's nobody. Yeah, who's who's the guy? Oh? Shoot,

1408
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,119
there's there's one sort of kind of apologist. I'm taking

1409
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:10,720
that got smoked by a young Christian scholar and apologist

1410
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,560
just smoked, actually pulled things off, pulled copies of the

1411
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,520
originals off the show.

1412
01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, when West cooked Billy Carson.

1413
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Billy Carson Billy Carson might be a Billy Carson fan.

1414
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that you're right. That's the type of person that

1415
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:31,560
he probably tunes into. Is like the Billy Carson. These

1416
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,920
people are have. It's amazing that anyone listens to them.

1417
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,520
They have no idea and it only takes the slightest

1418
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,079
bit of pressure for their entire world view to crack.

1419
01:12:41,319 --> 01:12:44,680
But I don't know people buy into it. Let's get

1420
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,439
Roy from Massachusetts. Roy had a question and wants to

1421
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,600
know where in the Bible original sin is even mentioned

1422
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,319
as a concept? Roy, Is that about what you're looking

1423
01:12:55,359 --> 01:12:57,479
for is figuring out how original sin came to be?

1424
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, more or less, But don't on me not being

1425
01:13:01,159 --> 01:13:06,520
in kind of any kind of a concussion protocol. All

1426
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,359
it was worth it just to hear them say the

1427
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:09,439
word sacrifice.

1428
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 4: I think if he calls.

1429
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,319
Speaker 9: Back, we can make that a drinking game, all right,

1430
01:13:16,159 --> 01:13:18,199
with a change of place. I think I'll make this

1431
01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:21,079
an occasion where the caller tries not to talk over

1432
01:13:21,119 --> 01:13:22,800
the host. So I hope this doesn't throw you off.

1433
01:13:23,239 --> 01:13:27,359
But yeah, your is original sin even mentioned as a

1434
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,399
concept for which all of humanity must a tell him?

1435
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 4: I can't find it anywhere.

1436
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: So it takes a little bit of triangulation. I think

1437
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,520
the first thing you have to look at is start

1438
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,039
with the curse in Genesis three, because the curse in

1439
01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:47,000
Genesis three applies to basically everything, and that's why Paul

1440
01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:50,079
says we have this sin nature. But I think the

1441
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:54,039
typical justification for original sin kind of starts in Romans

1442
01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:58,319
chapter five. You go Romans chapter five, Paul says, therefore,

1443
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,960
just as sin came into the world through one man

1444
01:14:01,039 --> 01:14:04,840
and death came through sin, so death spread to all

1445
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,319
because all have sinned. Now Catholics will sometimes kind of

1446
01:14:09,359 --> 01:14:11,640
leaf off that last part because all of sin. But

1447
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,880
this is kind of where the original sin comes from,

1448
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:19,000
this idea that like there has been like a tainting.

1449
01:14:19,359 --> 01:14:22,680
And there's another passage that points to this a little

1450
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:25,840
bit which gets fleshed out later outside of the Bible,

1451
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:30,760
which is this idea that Adam was cursed, Eve was cursed,

1452
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,800
and since all of the seeds of all humankind were

1453
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,479
in Adam, that means that all of the Adam's seed

1454
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:39,479
became cursed.

1455
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: Right.

1456
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: So if we go to the Book of Hebrews chapter seven,

1457
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:46,800
there's a really interesting discussion on how Jesus, who is theoretically,

1458
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:48,359
a priest in the order of Milch of the deck

1459
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,399
is greater than the priesthood of the Levites. But that

1460
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,680
part of the conversation isn't critical. Listen to how the

1461
01:14:55,720 --> 01:15:01,159
author of Hebrews justifies how Jesus is great than the Levites,

1462
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:05,520
says even Abraham. This is referring to when Abraham met

1463
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:11,079
Melchizedek in Genesis fourteen, and Melchisedec was blessed by Abraham,

1464
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:16,399
and Abraham gave him an offering. So, considering this particular event,

1465
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,199
says even Abraham, the patriarch, gave him a tenth of

1466
01:15:20,199 --> 01:15:23,840
the spoils. And those descendants of Levi who received the

1467
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,359
priestly office have a commandment in the law to collect

1468
01:15:27,359 --> 01:15:29,640
tithes from the people, that is, from their kindred. Through

1469
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,399
these also our descendant from Abraham. But this man, who

1470
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:37,960
does not belong to their ancestries, collected tithes from Abraham,

1471
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,439
referring to Melchizidek, and blessed him, who had received the promises.

1472
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,800
It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by

1473
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:49,880
the superior. In the one case, tithes are received by

1474
01:15:50,119 --> 01:15:52,000
one who is mortal and the other by one of

1475
01:15:52,039 --> 01:15:54,720
whom it is testified that he lives. One might even

1476
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,319
say this is the best part. One might even say

1477
01:15:57,319 --> 01:16:02,319
that Levi himself, who receives the hives, paid through Abraham,

1478
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:06,119
for he was still in the loins of his ancestor

1479
01:16:06,359 --> 01:16:09,439
when Melchizedek met him. So what they're suggesting is that

1480
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,640
because Levi, the entire priesthood of Levi, was in the

1481
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:18,199
loins of Abraham when Abraham blessed Melchizedek, that means that

1482
01:16:18,279 --> 01:16:22,960
Melchizedek is greater than Levi. And so this type of

1483
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,359
thinking was pervasive in the ancient world, which accounts for

1484
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:33,359
why once Adam and Eve became corrupted, they became defiled.

1485
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:37,039
All of the seed of mankind became defiled. And that's

1486
01:16:37,079 --> 01:16:40,279
why through one man came sin, and through another man

1487
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:45,359
came reconciliation and original sin answers one other question, well

1488
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:48,920
more than one, but one other important question, which is

1489
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,760
if Jesus died to take the wages of sin. Right,

1490
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:56,119
If the wages of sin is death and Jesus came

1491
01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:01,640
to reconcile that and everyone is still dyeing, even babies,

1492
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:05,840
babies who don't sin, that means that they are still

1493
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,760
under the weight of original sin. Because if you can

1494
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,840
die receive your wages of sin having never sinned, then

1495
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,479
it can only mean that whatever the curse was, we

1496
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,000
received this curse whether we sin or not. And now

1497
01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:21,720
now it's a universal curse, and you've got the curse

1498
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:22,600
of original sin.

1499
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 9: Ah okay, and and also thanks for reminding me because

1500
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,720
I hadn't been paying my times lately.

1501
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:32,319
Speaker 4: Illuminating.

1502
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, thanks for calling in.

1503
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 2: What is Doug's type these days?

1504
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:42,079
Speaker 1: Doug? Doug demands no money. However, however, we do have

1505
01:17:42,119 --> 01:17:48,960
some super chats. That's right, get stoned for Doug, all right?

1506
01:17:54,079 --> 01:17:57,880
Super Yeah? Can you see the superchests are just me?

1507
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,239
Speaker 2: I don't see where that are of my head.

1508
01:18:01,359 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: I've got him, I can. I can run through our superchats.

1509
01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:08,079
We've got a ten dollars super chat from our friend

1510
01:18:08,159 --> 01:18:11,520
Johnny Moore. Thank you, Johnny, Johnny says, I love you guys.

1511
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,960
You don't have to read this out loud. Sorry, you

1512
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:19,560
both have changed my live heartfelt. Thank you, Thank you, Johnny.

1513
01:18:20,039 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: And you know, Johnny, that's great.

1514
01:18:22,039 --> 01:18:28,319
Speaker 1: I enjoy getting feedback when people are moved by our work,

1515
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:30,159
don't you. I mean it feels good to hear the

1516
01:18:30,199 --> 01:18:31,159
positive feedback.

1517
01:18:31,399 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, without a doubt. And I think it's important

1518
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,920
for other atheistso because a lot of the things that

1519
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,159
we get is, oh, your calling shows don't actually change

1520
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:43,119
people's minds, And it's like, yes, yes they do, right,

1521
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:46,359
And if you don't, don't believe me. Next time, Dan

1522
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,560
is on truth wanted go ask you where he deconverted from,

1523
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,039
and it was from AXP And now he's a host

1524
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:56,600
enter ur does it, says those are the best emails

1525
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,479
and best calls and best superchats we get is you

1526
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,800
changed thing about my life for the better, and hopefully

1527
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:04,760
it's always for the better, and only understand sometimes it

1528
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:06,640
will be for the worst, but hopefully it's always for

1529
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:07,000
the better.

1530
01:19:07,039 --> 01:19:10,399
Speaker 1: Indeed, we've got a friend in the chat with a

1531
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,680
ten dollar superchat, our friend doctor Joe, thank you so much,

1532
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,680
says maybe if Chuck says it more loudly, more sternly,

1533
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:22,039
more confidently and over and over, his twisted bible of

1534
01:19:22,079 --> 01:19:24,520
you would be accurate and the rest of us will

1535
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:25,760
be wrong. He should try that.

1536
01:19:28,119 --> 01:19:33,119
Speaker 2: Indeed, Yeah, and if he calls us we're crazy enough,

1537
01:19:33,119 --> 01:19:35,760
we'll actually believe his his claims, right, so that we're

1538
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,479
not crazy. But yeah, no, that's not going to happen.

1539
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:44,079
Speaker 1: And another five from I'm sorry this is I think I'm

1540
01:19:44,119 --> 01:19:46,920
out of order. I apologize. I was on Maryland super Chat.

1541
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,520
Did I miss a super Chat? I missed Chips. I apologize,

1542
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,920
I miss chips, Superchet Chip, thank you so much for

1543
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,439
the ninety nine dollars superchat, Chip says, Hey, justin, I'm

1544
01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:01,119
in Yellowstone National Park and surrounded by many forms of Sadly,

1545
01:20:01,239 --> 01:20:04,199
Doug seems to have no power to boost Wi Fi

1546
01:20:04,319 --> 01:20:07,439
or cellular but I stay rock hard for Doug. Anyways,

1547
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,399
hope this gets through. It got through, Chip, Yes, by

1548
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,960
the power of Doug. May the courts be with you,

1549
01:20:13,079 --> 01:20:13,520
my friend.

1550
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,359
Speaker 2: Well, Doug, Doug actually stops Wi Fi, so he wants

1551
01:20:18,399 --> 01:20:21,119
you to, you know, stop being connected all the time

1552
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:24,119
and and actually focus on Doug and all the form

1553
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,760
right ye occasionally throw throw Doug through the air so

1554
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:28,560
that Doug can fly.

1555
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:35,720
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, let Doug experience the win in his face. Maryland,

1556
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,319
thank you so much for the five dollars super Chat.

1557
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:45,159
Maryland says, tell him, y'all are gods. Prove you're not well? Maryland,

1558
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:48,319
I think by defaults the default position is that we're

1559
01:20:48,359 --> 01:20:51,039
not gods until we can be proven to be gods,

1560
01:20:51,079 --> 01:20:54,279
because there's like the intilment that we would be gods,

1561
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:56,840
that we would have some kind of powers and.

1562
01:20:58,079 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 2: Curious ways answer every prayer. But we work in mysterious ways.

1563
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:05,920
We answer in our own way, and sometimes the answer

1564
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:10,000
is no. So keep in.

1565
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,279
Speaker 1: Mind that a non answer is an answer, ignoring is

1566
01:21:13,319 --> 01:21:16,720
an answer. Yeah, I am. And last one from Roger,

1567
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,680
thank you so much, Roger for the finot of Supertest,

1568
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,520
says thank you for a great show. Well, Roger, thank

1569
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,520
you for supporting the channel. The ACA has been doing

1570
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:28,560
this I think twenty nine seasons now. It's unbelievable how

1571
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,680
much material and work the ACA has put out, Like

1572
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,199
there's I don't know if you would ever run out

1573
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:37,159
of material, Like if you're ever bored and you want

1574
01:21:37,159 --> 01:21:41,800
to hear ACA content, you could sit down and listen

1575
01:21:42,239 --> 01:21:46,039
and you'll, like you'll your hairline will be back three

1576
01:21:46,119 --> 01:21:49,239
more inches by the time you've finished it. So, I mean,

1577
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:50,880
there's a lot of great content out.

1578
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:55,319
Speaker 2: There, and it's presented by some earlier great hosts from

1579
01:21:55,319 --> 01:22:00,359
the past and will be you know, in the future too, hope.

1580
01:22:01,399 --> 01:22:04,039
So you know at some point we'll both stop doing

1581
01:22:04,079 --> 01:22:08,359
this and go somewhere else. But yeah, this is twenty

1582
01:22:08,399 --> 01:22:10,800
and yeah it is almost thirty years now, and we

1583
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,399
got started. We were public access. We're public access, and

1584
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:17,560
people were calling in from Austin. So you see some

1585
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:22,239
really great hosts and some really really interesting tables occasionally.

1586
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: So indeed, since Aron host, let's bring up our good

1587
01:22:27,039 --> 01:22:31,159
friend Scott, who is backing us up today. Our backup

1588
01:22:31,159 --> 01:22:34,399
post is Scott. I'm curious to know what Scott thought

1589
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:38,199
about the conversations. There's a lot of meat on the

1590
01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:41,079
bone there, Scott. How do you feel? Yeah?

1591
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,319
Speaker 10: It was really interesting. You know, I just want to ask,

1592
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:46,800
what kind of atheists are you? I mean, how dare you?

1593
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:50,640
How dare you know more about their books than they do?

1594
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:55,079
Just it's just I think you're atheisting all wrong apparently.

1595
01:22:55,119 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 2: I don't know off.

1596
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 10: But I do got to hand it to Fireman though,

1597
01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:02,119
because even though his argument kind of fell apart, and

1598
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,760
you know, he wasn't able to, you know, take it

1599
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,960
all the way to the to the rim there, but

1600
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:09,600
he at least called in right, so at least he

1601
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,279
had the guts to back up what he was saying.

1602
01:23:11,279 --> 01:23:14,399
He was talking to some people on chat before and so,

1603
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:16,399
and he said he was going to call in, and

1604
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:18,079
he called in, So you know you got to give

1605
01:23:18,159 --> 01:23:19,079
him that much at least.

1606
01:23:19,239 --> 01:23:22,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of keyboard warriors claimed they're going to

1607
01:23:22,279 --> 01:23:25,199
called in, but they never do. Yeah, so yeah, they

1608
01:23:25,239 --> 01:23:28,560
get some credit. And aside, I did see the super

1609
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,239
chet that you just sent inside for ten dollars, big

1610
01:23:31,399 --> 01:23:34,159
w thank you for the super chat side says, I've

1611
01:23:34,199 --> 01:23:36,920
learned more about the Bible from you than many years

1612
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,319
in church. You've answered my question, You've answered my questions.

1613
01:23:40,359 --> 01:23:42,840
But one, how do I stop being angry for being

1614
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,000
lied to my whole life? And that's actually I think

1615
01:23:45,039 --> 01:23:47,800
everyone deals with that differently. Did you guys go through

1616
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,399
a phase where you were dealing with anger or this

1617
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:56,199
you know, kind of being felt like you've missed out

1618
01:23:56,399 --> 01:23:58,119
or like, how did you deal with with that?

1619
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:01,359
Speaker 10: I don't know if I ever actually believed in a

1620
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:04,159
god and my family was religious, but I don't. I

1621
01:24:04,199 --> 01:24:06,760
don't remember. I mean I might have, but I don't

1622
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:08,840
remember it. So I did not go through an angry

1623
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:10,880
phase like that, and I didn't I didn't.

1624
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: Feel lied to.

1625
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:17,079
Speaker 10: I felt that there were uh that my family or there.

1626
01:24:17,119 --> 01:24:19,319
The religious people that were around me were making an

1627
01:24:19,319 --> 01:24:22,560
honest effort to uh to you know, to judge the

1628
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,560
world around them. But you know, I don't know if

1629
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:25,119
I think.

1630
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,079
Speaker 1: That now, but that's what I did at the time.

1631
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,680
Speaker 2: And at some point I forgave myself for being an idiot.

1632
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:36,199
Is when I stopped being angry, when I realized that

1633
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:41,640
I believed because people I trusted told me stuff, and

1634
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:45,720
I believed it because I trusted them. And you know,

1635
01:24:46,199 --> 01:24:48,640
in many cases, and this is why we need to

1636
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,479
be careful when we paint with broad brushes, and why

1637
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:55,399
we can't call Christians crazy and you know, have mental issues.

1638
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:57,920
They don't. They were told by people they trusted, who

1639
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,800
were told by people they trusted, who were by people

1640
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:05,319
they trusted. And so it's only when you actually take

1641
01:25:05,399 --> 01:25:08,680
the time to go look at it and do some

1642
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:12,600
research and struggle with the material and wrestle with the

1643
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:16,800
material that you get somewhere and start to do this.

1644
01:25:17,079 --> 01:25:19,840
And not everybody has the inclination or the time to

1645
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,640
do that. It's not it's not a time for your

1646
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:27,119
cost free process to do that. So you know, that's

1647
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:29,920
just maybe look at where the anger is coming from

1648
01:25:30,119 --> 01:25:34,159
and you know, forgive those who who told you in

1649
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,159
good faith what they believed was true, and maybe forgive

1650
01:25:38,199 --> 01:25:41,239
yourself for accepting that is true. My go a long way.

1651
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:44,560
Speaker 1: Good advice. Well, friends, I think that is the end

1652
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:47,199
of the show is seven o six. Thank you for

1653
01:25:47,399 --> 01:25:50,800
being here tonight. I think it was a fun show, Jim.

1654
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,720
I had a blast getting to share a stream with

1655
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:57,760
you again. Oh, me too, And we'll be here again

1656
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,199
at four point thirty pm Central time. Oh we got

1657
01:26:01,239 --> 01:26:03,840
one more super chat from our friend Kyle says, grind

1658
01:26:04,039 --> 01:26:07,680
dug into powder and he will reform three days. Yes,

1659
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:10,760
absolutely will nice.

1660
01:26:11,399 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 2: Nice, I'll haild some glue.

1661
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 1: All right, friends, we'll see you again soon. Make sure

1662
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:24,399
tune in for our The show's talking than nonprofits. That

1663
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,760
I miss the miss one. I think the.

1664
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 2: Truth wanted, truth wanted.

1665
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:28,359
Speaker 4: There we go.

1666
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:30,319
Speaker 1: I feel like I always miss one. I don't know

1667
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:32,680
why my brain always wants to leave one out because

1668
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:34,520
it's not in one of the Bible passages. I can

1669
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:38,319
only remember Bible passages apparently. But what kind of atheists

1670
01:26:38,319 --> 01:26:38,640
are you?

1671
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:39,159
Speaker 2: Geez?

1672
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 1: I have a great night.

1673
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 11: Friend to stop already, stop the bullshit hamry around you.

1674
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: Watch talk Ethan Live Sundays at one pm Central. Visit

1675
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,680
tiny dot c c slash y t t H and

1676
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,199
call into the show at five one two nine nine

1677
01:27:12,279 --> 01:27:14,760
one nine two four two, or connect to the show

1678
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:21,399
online at tiny dot c c slash call THH