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<v Speaker 1>Hi, and welcome back to the Working Class History Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>As you may know, we don't get any sort of

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<v Speaker 1>funding from any wealthy benefactors, corporations, governments, or political pies.

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<v Speaker 1>Our work is funded by you, our listeners and readers

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<v Speaker 1>on Patreon. In return, our supports on Patreon get access

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<v Speaker 1>to exclusive content and benefits like ad free episodes, bonus

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<v Speaker 1>podcast episodes, and a couple of exclusive discussion podcast series,

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<v Speaker 1>fireside chats and radical reads. So here is a little

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<v Speaker 1>preview of our latest episode for our patrons. You can

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<v Speaker 1>join us, help support our work and listen to the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing today at patreon dot com slash working Class

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<v Speaker 1>History link in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>As we come Margin Martin in the Beauty of the Day,

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<v Speaker 2>A million dark in kitchens, one thousand mil. Last grade

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<v Speaker 2>I've ridden by the beauty is Sun Sun Disclosed and

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<v Speaker 2>the paple hereusing breaden Roses, red and Roses.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello to all of our fantastic patron supporters. Our fireside

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<v Speaker 1>chat for you this month is something a little bit different.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt and I got on a call to have a

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<v Speaker 1>chat about my experiences organizing at work in the public

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<v Speaker 1>sector a few months ago, but earlier the day that

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<v Speaker 1>we spoke, New York and federal authorities in the US

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<v Speaker 1>arranged a ridiculous purp walk for Luigi Mangna, who'd been

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<v Speaker 1>arrested in connection with the assassination of a healthcare CEO,

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<v Speaker 1>and basically that was all we wanted to talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>so we accidentally ended up with a bunch of tape

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<v Speaker 1>about Luigi. A few months on, Manjohnie is now facing

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<v Speaker 1>federal death penalty charges and his first federal court appearance

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<v Speaker 1>is scheduled for today, the nineteenth of March. So we

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<v Speaker 1>thought we would get a fire going and have an

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<v Speaker 1>updated discussion on developments in the case, which had taken

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<v Speaker 1>place since we first spoke. So this chat consists of

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<v Speaker 1>two set discussions, the first from our chat in December

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<v Speaker 1>last year and the second from a couple of weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Hope you enjoyed the episode and what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>about the case? Let us know in the comments. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the one thing that's kind of blown me

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<v Speaker 1>away about this is because obviously Manjohn like looking at

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff he wrote online and things like that, and

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff he posted on social media app it's got

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of like a lot of his views a

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<v Speaker 1>kind of typical manosphere sort of right wingish manosphere type views.

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<v Speaker 1>But in other stuff he's written, you can see that

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<v Speaker 1>he's is critical of US corporations burning the planet and

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<v Speaker 1>things like that. So it's a I think, quite typical

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot of people in the US with kind

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<v Speaker 1>of I don't know if you'd call them radical centrists

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<v Speaker 1>or kind of like extremist centrists or something, where they

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<v Speaker 1>hold like a real mixture of or just some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of general populism where they've got a mixture of and

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<v Speaker 1>left ideas but support violence.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's what I find funny about

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<v Speaker 3>more than because I think, like, really, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 3>basically like, apart from the tiny minority of people like us,

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<v Speaker 3>whether they're left wing or right wing, who like give

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<v Speaker 3>so much of a shit about politics, I think most people,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, hold some weird combination of but you know,

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<v Speaker 3>left and right wing ideas, and you know, we'll hold

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<v Speaker 3>them together. But the funny thing is is that like

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<v Speaker 3>whatever the combination of ideas that people are holding in

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<v Speaker 3>their heads, you know, like about I don't know, gender,

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<v Speaker 3>or about whatever the welfare state, or whatever kind of

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<v Speaker 3>combination they have, it seems like in America. The one

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<v Speaker 3>thing that they're united by is that we should shoot

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<v Speaker 3>healthcare CEOs, and that was what I think. It's so like.

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<v Speaker 3>And also it's so funny just seeing the media, like

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<v Speaker 3>even in the UK, really everyone going into overdrive just

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<v Speaker 3>to really underline like, oh, this thing that happened was bad,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean, Like so many people are

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<v Speaker 3>reacting in a positive way about this terrible thing that happened,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and you're like, usually I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 3>not that kind of that necessity to like, uh, you

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<v Speaker 3>know that terrorist attack, that that terrible terrorist attack, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>something like that, just like Okay, we know it's terrible,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, so you don't have to say it, so

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<v Speaker 3>you just kind of it's just left there. But then

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<v Speaker 3>because so many people are supportive of this, like the

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<v Speaker 3>media is taking it upon themselves that it's like, we

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<v Speaker 3>really have to underline this was a bad thing, and

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<v Speaker 3>everyone is supposed to feel like negatively about this, and

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<v Speaker 3>just everyone's I don't know how it is in the US,

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<v Speaker 3>but from here, it seems like everyone in the US

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<v Speaker 3>is either kind of like that guy had it coming,

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<v Speaker 3>or like, you know, who cares really.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what's so crazy to see, like the reaction.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the fact that when United Healthcare posted to

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<v Speaker 1>their face page about oh, just a personal tragic note

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<v Speaker 1>about how sad it was that their person diet, and

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<v Speaker 1>it literally got fifty thousand laughing face reacts, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>only a couple of thousand sad face reacts, So then

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<v Speaker 1>they turned off the ability to react to it. But

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<v Speaker 1>then what that meant was all you could see was

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<v Speaker 1>the main reaction and the number, So then it made

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<v Speaker 1>it look like there are one hundred and twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>thousand laughing faces and nothing else. And like the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that the usual suspects, you know, lefty kind of influencers

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<v Speaker 1>and things making jokes about it. But the thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I find the craziest is like on TikTok, just so

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<v Speaker 1>many average random TikTok influencers who just have a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of million followers, so they're people that don't make political

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<v Speaker 1>content for the most part. They make songs or they

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<v Speaker 1>just chat about their lives or whatever. Are just doing

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<v Speaker 1>songs about how great Luigi Manjoorni is.

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<v Speaker 3>There was something out that some Disney chant thing or

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<v Speaker 3>some Disney Adults gig or something like that, and like

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<v Speaker 3>they played some song. I forget what it was, but

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<v Speaker 3>they were just playing kind of like a slide show

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<v Speaker 3>of like Luigi Manjohana's face just behind them, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, and just like.

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<v Speaker 1>And the whole crowd was cheering. Yeah, And then they

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<v Speaker 1>showed his mugshot at the end, and the whole crowd

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<v Speaker 1>just went, what like it? Really? I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>it's like a generational thing. I think it's partly generational,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean I've seen plenty of like older people

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<v Speaker 1>say so and in comment section, I mean, comment sections

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<v Speaker 1>on social media are quite like self selecting because they're

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<v Speaker 1>algorithmically like chosen and stuff. But it is very surprising

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<v Speaker 1>to see and that so many people are talking about

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<v Speaker 1>class as a result of it. Like I've seen so

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<v Speaker 1>many just like random apolitical people on social media talk

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<v Speaker 1>about oh, like class consciousness. Now that like this sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing, regardless of political views or has given quite

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<v Speaker 1>a few people in the US a feeling of class

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<v Speaker 1>consciousness that you know, politically or whatever might have disagreements,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's like, oh, this is clearly a class issue.

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<v Speaker 1>That this was a wealthy capitalist whose job is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of helping to kill working class people and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>against the rest of us. It's quite interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, no, it is is incredible to see. Like

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<v Speaker 3>what's incredible is that like it underlines this kind of

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<v Speaker 3>latent class tension that exists, you know, and maybe like

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<v Speaker 3>it comes out in like weird ways you know elsewhere,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I mean maybe like in you know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>it comes out as like anti immigrant sentiment, or like

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<v Speaker 3>it comes out as yeah, maybe occasionally kind of sort

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<v Speaker 3>of crystallizes in the form of strikes and things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, this for it to come out like this

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<v Speaker 3>in this way that also like feel like, actually, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>there's quite a large constituency in this country for like

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<v Speaker 3>offing members of the ruling class, you know what I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, which is like, which is quite funny. And

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm not sure that like Bernie could run on that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm not sure you could like fit that

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<v Speaker 3>into a kind of a social democratic you know, worldview.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie manchone, twenty twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, no exactly, but it is there, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think it is something that always has to be

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<v Speaker 3>sort of born in mind, you know, especially when people

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<v Speaker 3>kind of criticize things like abolitionist politics or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if people speak in favor of, like, you know, law

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<v Speaker 3>and order, like working class people, they you know, they

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<v Speaker 3>love law and order politics and things like that. And

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure that's if you do focus groups, that that's

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<v Speaker 3>what you would find out. You do focus groups, and

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure you would find that out. But I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think that if you'd have done a focus group two

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<v Speaker 3>three weeks ago and asked, you know, are you in

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<v Speaker 3>favor of, you know, shooting healthcare CEOs in the street,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure very few people would have said yeah, definitely actually,

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<v Speaker 3>But then once it happens, it's like, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think like true sort of fans of the

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<v Speaker 1>part will probably be aware of the Martin Klaberman quote

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<v Speaker 1>about action preceding consciousness, which I think has come up before.

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<v Speaker 1>That that was in respect to workers in the US

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<v Speaker 1>towards the end of the world, we're too voting to

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<v Speaker 1>support the note strike pledge but then taking wildcat strikes

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<v Speaker 1>all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I think it's a really like yeah, the

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<v Speaker 3>way he phrases that is really good because he's like saying, like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, which one of the two actions is more significant?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, is it the vote to give away your

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<v Speaker 3>your right to strike during the war. Is that more

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<v Speaker 3>reflective of the mood of workers or is the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that the majority of auto workers went on wildcat strike

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<v Speaker 3>at some point during that wartime strike wave period. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's so yeah, that thing of what do you put

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<v Speaker 3>down on a piece of paper as your your stated

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<v Speaker 3>position and then what do your actions say your stated

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<v Speaker 3>position is, and how that kind of contradicts.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, on like the class nature of it. Fox

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<v Speaker 1>News commentators people were kind of saying making jokes about

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<v Speaker 1>so content note for brief mention of sexual violence, but

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<v Speaker 1>were making classic kind of right wing jokes about saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>Luigi man Geno is going to be subjected to sexual

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<v Speaker 1>violence in prison, and then being gleeful about that and

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<v Speaker 1>then seeing what actually happened with him in prison with

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<v Speaker 1>journalists outside where his fellow detainees were yelling out the

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<v Speaker 1>windows to journalists saying that his conditions were terrible and

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<v Speaker 1>that they should free Luigi.

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<v Speaker 3>And shouting free Luigi.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, you know again, they're just not, like Fox News,

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of not understanding basic ideas about the sense

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<v Speaker 1>of class solidarity that a lot of people still have,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, on in an eight level thinking that that

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<v Speaker 1>people in prison would have the same view of someone

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<v Speaker 1>who killed the ceout as a multimillionaire Fox News presenter.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's also there's something a

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<v Speaker 3>bit discussed in any way about like, you know, a

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<v Speaker 3>certain amount of joy that this kind of millionaire like

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<v Speaker 3>right wing TV presenter gets from, like the idea of

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<v Speaker 3>someone going into a bit like an institution that kind

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<v Speaker 3>of encourages and you know, sort of incubates, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>these kinds of conditions as well, you know what I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>It's like it's something that they seem to revel in

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<v Speaker 3>as well, you know. There so there was something, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>there was something sort of like multiply kind of disgusting

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<v Speaker 3>about that comment and then for it to just be

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<v Speaker 3>proved immediately wrong anyway, you know what I mean, which

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<v Speaker 3>is like, because the whole point is is that like

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<v Speaker 3>his view of the people in prison are that they're

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<v Speaker 3>all kind of basically animals anyway, you know, and they

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<v Speaker 3>and they behave like animals because that's what they are.

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<v Speaker 3>And you're throwing this guy into you know, this animal

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<v Speaker 3>environment which.

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<v Speaker 1>Is run by the state.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly exactly, and actually the people in there aren't

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<v Speaker 3>nearly you know what what he accuses them of being.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, anyway, he is quite jokes. It's also it's

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<v Speaker 3>mostly quite funny because at the same time that there's

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<v Speaker 3>Luigi Manjoan here, there's also that guy with it, Daniel Penny, who,

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<v Speaker 3>like you know the right obviously want him to be

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<v Speaker 3>like the superhero you know what I mean, like the

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<v Speaker 3>White Night going out on the on the New York Metro,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, to take down swarthy villains.

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<v Speaker 1>That brings us to the end of this episode preview.

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<v Speaker 1>Hope you enjoyed it. To listen to the full thing

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<v Speaker 1>and help support our work researching and promoting people's history,

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<v Speaker 1>join us today on Patreon at patreon dot com slash

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<v Speaker 1>working class history. That's p A t R e o

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<v Speaker 1>n dot com slash working class history link in the

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<v Speaker 1>show notes. Catch you next time.