Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm thinking about like freakin' zero band list
Speaker 1: sidewalk slam.
Speaker 2: What the hell's the matter with you? He was the
Speaker 2: Commander Who Go podcast Episode four two one. Branda here
Speaker 2: was r We're gonna finish off talking about the band
Speaker 2: list now in our sme. So, hey Ryan, We're back
Speaker 2: for yet another whirlwind adventure.
Speaker 1: How you doing good? What is going down?
Speaker 2: Whole bunch is going down. We got events that we
Speaker 2: are yet to go to that we have already been
Speaker 2: to because of time travel to talk about. We got
Speaker 2: some big things coming up in the future. We got
Speaker 2: more band list talk plus some input from the nation.
Speaker 2: But before you get to any of that, we have
Speaker 2: to thank our official business Daddy's Fusion Gaming Online dot com.
Speaker 2: They are your your favorite yes place for all your
Speaker 2: gaming needs where you can use special promo code CEO
Speaker 2: holiday to say five percent off all your band stuff,
Speaker 2: non band stuff or soon to be band stuff.
Speaker 3: Or soon to be unbanned much better or and I
Speaker 3: should say, I want to say a special thanks to
Speaker 3: Pile of Bones Brewing Co.
Speaker 2: They are the second coolest thing to come out of Regina.
Speaker 2: As well as being the official beer sponsor for c
Speaker 2: CEO Sidewalk Season three available now on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Oh Man Sidewalk Slam so fun. Got lots of good
Speaker 1: compliments on the CEO Lounge after kind after party when
Speaker 1: we were talking about the game, lots of jokes, lots
Speaker 1: of compliments on the player intros. If you want to
Speaker 1: be a player on Sidewalkslam Patreon dot com slash CECO podcast,
Speaker 1: that's where you go hop on a benefit tiered. There's
Speaker 1: a couple different levels. They got a bunch of different benefits.
Speaker 1: Discord Sidewalk Slam, CSU experience coming up. All of those
Speaker 1: benefits to becoming a patron. Plus, you're supporting the awesome
Speaker 1: show that you see here along with all of the
Speaker 1: other stuff on the CCO MG, and you allow us
Speaker 1: to be here along with producer Gary and the whole
Speaker 1: dufferin Avenue Media Network Team Network Studio, Network Team Studio.
Speaker 1: Very much.
Speaker 2: Yes, we did it, So we're here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pile of bones. I've got some pilot bones for you.
Speaker 1: We're gonna drink. Yeah, very good. Yeah like that stuff
Speaker 1: like fusion. CCO Holiday is still in effect even though
Speaker 1: we're coming into spring. You can probably hear it. I'm
Speaker 1: on allergy Meds right now? Is spring?
Speaker 2: Is there a holiday in spring? Easter?
Speaker 1: She's coming Easter? Yeah, it is zombie Jesus Day, baby, Yep,
Speaker 1: that's it. Okay, So speaking to zombies, zombies, I wanna
Speaker 1: get right into it. Oh shit, we don't have any
Speaker 1: zombies on the band list, not a single one action. No,
Speaker 1: I want to stay on zombies here, but I'm taking
Speaker 1: it in a different direction. We're gonna be zombies every
Speaker 1: morning that we wake up in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we are. Oh, I hope we get to
Speaker 2: stay at another weird mansion with like a derelict limousine
Speaker 2: in the in the driveway.
Speaker 1: I bet you there was dead people in that limousine's
Speaker 1: king bodies and that thing jumped in the middle of
Speaker 1: a desert.
Speaker 2: Was they just left the gas on so that it
Speaker 2: wouldn't smell the dead people in the limo. And there
Speaker 2: was a pool and palm trees that were real, which
Speaker 2: is very exciting to me, and a little like beach
Speaker 2: set up with a thing. And we're gonna do that
Speaker 2: all again in Vegas this June. June. Fuck, I'm excited.
Speaker 2: A desert in June. I hope I'm not the only
Speaker 2: one that's super pumped for that.
Speaker 1: You know what, I definitely have had people say I'm
Speaker 1: not going to Vegas because it's June. Those people can
Speaker 1: eat my whole ass.
Speaker 2: It's so cool. When you're inside the building.
Speaker 1: What you'll have to do, like many a booster box
Speaker 1: and or booster pack.
Speaker 2: Just open it and throw yourself in the garbage.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, swim in the pool. You can
Speaker 1: go back on the CCO backlog of shorts to find
Speaker 1: some booster boxes that may or may not have gone
Speaker 1: for a drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so love that. Chlorine.
Speaker 1: Planning for the CEO experience, Las Vegas, our biggest show
Speaker 1: of the year, the biggest magic show of the year
Speaker 1: has started. It's in the discord. I've made a thread
Speaker 1: for it called Vegas twenty twenty five. I am going
Speaker 1: to be collecting names of interested individuals. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be starting the shopping for a house or houses. Yep.
Speaker 2: I get to help with that. It always makes me sense.
Speaker 1: We've looked into prices for flights and for us it's
Speaker 1: not too bad. Not too bad, which is always the
Speaker 1: biggest expense for us. But if you want to get
Speaker 1: in on it, get in the discord. If you're a
Speaker 1: Patreon supporter and not in the discord because you are
Speaker 1: older than Brando and hate technology. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think that that's anybody, But listen. If that's you, send
Speaker 1: us an email or send us a Patreon message and
Speaker 1: let us know. If you can drive, if you have
Speaker 1: a back and can carry the backpack that has beer
Speaker 1: in it, If you're a chef and would like to cook,
Speaker 1: or if you want to contribute in any way, if
Speaker 1: you've got your own special set of merch that you'd
Speaker 1: like to us to show off like we did with
Speaker 1: Scott's Dice one year, if you make tokens, if you
Speaker 1: want to contribute in any way. Of course, we're always
Speaker 1: open and welcome in the nation, and coffee dot com
Speaker 1: great place to donate. If you want to buy anybody
Speaker 1: a beer, you can make a donation there and then
Speaker 1: of course say who the donation's for. As well as
Speaker 1: commander cookout dot com, there is a place to donate,
Speaker 1: and usually leading up to the CCO experiences we do
Speaker 1: get some donations come in with little messages, Hey, buy
Speaker 1: a beer for people in the house, or get a
Speaker 1: twelve pack on me or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right now, nothing but the best sevens available.
Speaker 1: Oh no, the're threes now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, it's gonna be hard to get used
Speaker 2: to it. Frick three and hit you with some brandology.
Speaker 2: Three is a much lower number than seven.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I don't know if.
Speaker 2: I'm comfortable calling people threes.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, But it's three out of four still,
Speaker 1: like in the seventieth percentime, it like three.
Speaker 2: Out of five. Well no, but we do, we do
Speaker 2: in the fiftieth percentime.
Speaker 1: Listen, if we have to ask what a five is,
Speaker 1: we were playing fours, right, So it's basically there in
Speaker 1: the seventieth percentile. And what's a seven point one versus
Speaker 1: seven point five? Like, there's threes, that's seventy five. It's
Speaker 1: the same A bunch of fucking threes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a bunch of threes.
Speaker 1: So cocio experience. I'm super excited. I gotta get a
Speaker 1: TV graphic four. You'd see the TV graphics if you're
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube, which should be yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Zombies, Oh we're gonna be zombies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna be zombies.
Speaker 2: I was like, are you gonna talk about a zombie cards?
Speaker 2: Then I'm really excited for that. Yeah, man, then you didn't.
Speaker 1: You know what we missed, Bobby Master.
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's the other card I was thinking about yesterday
Speaker 2: on the pre show when I opened two zombies. I've
Speaker 2: got a crypt Breaker and a Zombie Master. Those are
Speaker 2: the two Secret Layer extra bonus fifth cards that I got.
Speaker 1: Zombie Master is actually pretty.
Speaker 2: Good in old Border foil. Zombie definitely has new arc.
Speaker 2: They both definitely have.
Speaker 1: No Zombie Master has is the one that gives him
Speaker 1: swamp walk.
Speaker 2: Swamp Walk and is a zombie. It turns out as
Speaker 2: opposed to the other printings of it one plus one Swamplock.
Speaker 1: Great in your Gulguri zombie decks where you can just
Speaker 1: go get a land and you get Erborg, so then
Speaker 1: your zombies are unblockable. Great when you have Expedition map
Speaker 1: and you can just go and get your herb Org
Speaker 1: and make your zombies unblockable. And Erborg is a card
Speaker 1: that you want to get anyways because the ball coffers.
Speaker 1: That's right, So math checks out. Zombie Master, he's good
Speaker 1: in Zombie deck.
Speaker 2: Jomby Master good card. Crypt Breaker also actually a good
Speaker 2: card that I play, but still disappointing. And if you
Speaker 2: want to know why, it's disappointing.
Speaker 1: Watch watch the precio. I'm gonna be a freaking zombie
Speaker 1: master in Las Vegas. Yeah she is. Maybe we'll go
Speaker 1: to Freemont Street.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, man, we always go to free Mont Street.
Speaker 1: I just stay at the house and drink beer and
Speaker 1: eat flaming hot doritles because I'm a fucking nerd.
Speaker 2: See I go to the I go to Fremont Street
Speaker 2: and I get kicked out of.
Speaker 1: The bar, grinded on by thong wearing Pikachu.
Speaker 2: No, he wasn't wearing a thong. He just had three
Speaker 2: arms the action.
Speaker 1: One of those it was not his arm Brando.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's man. That means that his wang was in
Speaker 2: like the Pikachu arm of the costume, and he somehow
Speaker 2: managed to articulate it. That's impressive. That is pretty This
Speaker 2: is a wild places. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the band list the list o case, we talked
Speaker 1: about a good fair dinking number of good fared Pikachudnkin
Speaker 1: number of cards. Last week we got all the way
Speaker 1: down to reoccurring nightmare. That is a band card that
Speaker 1: you purchased from Fusion Gaming Online like an idiot. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe it'll get unbanned. We were making a good case
Speaker 1: for unbanns last week. I want everything unbanned. Turns out
Speaker 1: the people on YouTube comments and Reddit and Facebook want
Speaker 1: less things on banned than your good friend Ryan.
Speaker 2: Power nine and dick sterity cards and one of the
Speaker 2: cards that we're gonna talk about today, meaning this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I want I want to play a freaking
Speaker 1: even this one.
Speaker 2: Don't even say what it does.
Speaker 1: But no, not that one.
Speaker 2: Everybody knows what I'm talking So the band list and
Speaker 2: your should be one card.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's that one maybe, and listen, maybe be
Speaker 1: like three cards.
Speaker 2: Oh oh, what are the other two? At that one?
Speaker 2: What are the other two?
Speaker 1: I don't know yet. I haven't thought about it yet.
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about it yet. But listen, I want
Speaker 1: to play freaking sidewalk slam with no band list.
Speaker 2: How are we gonna do that? We can't can't afford it.
Speaker 1: Who do we know that's got freaking power nine? I
Speaker 1: know a couple of guys that got power in the city.
Speaker 2: Uh, there's g Off I think has some let's do
Speaker 2: it and uh a.
Speaker 1: Few jewels got it. We'll get him to ship in
Speaker 1: the mail.
Speaker 2: You don't play magic, no one. Yeah, Jesse spears. Actually
Speaker 2: I think still has something.
Speaker 1: No, he got ready his right before it spiked, and
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm an idiot. I could have bought
Speaker 1: a mansion, sold his power for like two hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars less than what he could have been. Whatever,
Speaker 1: he's still made like three hundred grand.
Speaker 2: Can you can you imagine that? Like that hit to
Speaker 2: your goddamn?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he moved, dude, he moved to Poland for
Speaker 1: like a year, nobody even saw him. I think he
Speaker 1: was depressed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what I do, is moved.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I moved to Poland.
Speaker 1: Wow, maybe maybe like check, yes, somewhere they got beer
Speaker 1: and they drink more vodka.
Speaker 2: I'd pick somewhere like pretty freaking cool, that's not too expensive.
Speaker 2: I do like a Scotland because like I hear that,
Speaker 2: traveling in Scotland isn't too expensive. Trains trains super and
Speaker 2: you can stay for not very much as opposed to
Speaker 2: somewhere like Ireland, where Ireland is very expensive to stay.
Speaker 1: And as a tourist, let me ask you something. So
Speaker 1: you like rain? He likes noo, no clouds, wind, cold,
Speaker 1: don't go to those places that you just said.
Speaker 2: But I live here.
Speaker 1: Go to wherever Ruffalos Laniwar Emissary lives. He's our first card.
Speaker 2: He lives in the jungles of Peru.
Speaker 1: Lani War. Yes, okay, so he's a two to one
Speaker 1: ELF druid. You might have recognized those creature types as
Speaker 1: good ones before yeap for green green and has tap
Speaker 1: ad green to your manipool for each forest you control.
Speaker 2: That's obscene.
Speaker 1: This guy is banned. He was on the band as
Speaker 1: a commander list when that existed.
Speaker 2: Which is why he is still banned. Now.
Speaker 1: Yes, Now, I ask you this. If this guy was
Speaker 1: downgraded from band and put onto the game Changer's game
Speaker 1: Changers list as a in the ninety nine of your
Speaker 1: probably green Black Lathrill ELF deck, does this one guy
Speaker 1: make that big of a difference? Keeping in mind green
Speaker 1: is the creature Tudor color and black is the Tudor color.
Speaker 2: I think he still would. I would in my head.
Speaker 2: I think I would leave this band because because we
Speaker 2: have Gaya's creator on a creature and I think that
Speaker 2: that's fine, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And guy's cradle on the game Changer's list.
Speaker 2: Yes, like, I feel like we've got a like a
Speaker 2: we don't need two of these when one of them
Speaker 2: is probably better and there's a land much like herb
Speaker 2: Worg that supports it now and you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: I just feel like this one's fine to kind of
Speaker 2: just if they printed it today, I'd be like, man,
Speaker 2: what a fucking dank card. I wouldn't say ban it,
Speaker 2: but since it's banned.
Speaker 1: It also wouldn't cost It wouldn't cost green Green today.
Speaker 1: It probably cost like green Green two, Green Green four three,
Speaker 1: Green Green one, and he'd be a three to three
Speaker 1: something and haste instructible protection from everything damage can't be printed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh.
Speaker 1: You know what. Raplos to me feels a lot like
Speaker 1: Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt and Man of Vault. It's like,
Speaker 1: how much redundancy at the make lots of Green mana
Speaker 1: Very early in the game, slot do you need? You've
Speaker 1: got Hilario or not Tillary Academy, Guya's Cradle, Guy's Cradle
Speaker 1: Dot Creature, You've got elves coming out every orifice of
Speaker 1: your body that tapped for Green, You've got the Itla
Speaker 1: mock cradle of whatever.
Speaker 2: That one cradle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that also like kind of draws you a card.
Speaker 2: It's guy's cradle that can find this now and then
Speaker 2: play this and then flip itself over.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Now, I know that all of those things
Speaker 1: don't cost aren't a land, don't cost one or don't
Speaker 1: cost two like ruffalos. I know that those things cost
Speaker 1: like three or four or five or whatever. But this
Speaker 1: feels like a redundancy that jumps you from two or
Speaker 1: three mana to like eight or nine mana And it's
Speaker 1: just another one of those things.
Speaker 2: It doesn't just for playing it too, like by the
Speaker 2: time grieves aside, if you just play this on curve,
Speaker 2: when you untap and then play a land on turn three,
Speaker 2: you have six mana.
Speaker 1: That's lots.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of frickin' mana, especially when it's all
Speaker 2: colored and if you're playing just green as you would
Speaker 2: if this was your commander, let's say, ooh, that's that
Speaker 2: is backbreaking. That is a backbreaking card. And that's why
Speaker 2: this is probably still if it was non legendary, we
Speaker 2: could probably unband it, you think, so, I think, so
Speaker 2: why does that matter? Because it can't be.
Speaker 1: Your commander, can't be your command having.
Speaker 2: It in the command Zone guarantees you six manna on
Speaker 2: turn two in virtually every game unless you keep a
Speaker 2: really shitty hand.
Speaker 1: Yes, all you need is two or three lands.
Speaker 2: This card is so good you don't need non basic
Speaker 2: lands in your deck.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had actually two questions for you. Is
Speaker 1: green the color that you play the most basics in
Speaker 1: your monocolor deck as a percentage of total lands? Yep?
Speaker 2: You think because I am, on purpose in my mono
Speaker 2: red decks play lots of non basics because when I
Speaker 2: blood Moon and turn them all into mountains, it doesn't
Speaker 2: hurt me. I don't care. Yes, I all the benefits
Speaker 2: of having all these lands that do all this stuff,
Speaker 2: even if it's totally irrelevant to what I'm doing. And
Speaker 2: what's the worst that's gonna happen. It's blood Mountain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. And the second question is does turning
Speaker 1: into ra How.
Speaker 2: Do you say the Hulk actor's name? Ruffalo? This is Ruffellos.
Speaker 1: Thanks you pretty scary? Yep, Ruffalo Lanno warrant Hulk emissary.
Speaker 1: If we make him not legendary, does that make him
Speaker 1: better or worse? Command Zone notwithstanding, is he you can't
Speaker 1: find him with Time of Need, which is your green
Speaker 1: legendary creature tutor.
Speaker 2: It's one tutor you can't find him with. But on
Speaker 2: the other hand, I guess I could clone him. You
Speaker 2: can clone him, but let's mix it all of the
Speaker 2: new clones. Don't give a shit if they're legendary.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 2: In my Coma deck, I think there's seven clones, and
Speaker 2: I can clone Coma with every one of them.
Speaker 1: Oh, you play Ernic his bio duplication, right, I like
Speaker 1: that one because it gives me flying.
Speaker 2: He gives him flying. Alsode with that guy makes a
Speaker 2: better clone of the thing you're cloning. Yes, makes him
Speaker 2: better because it flies now. Yes, I cloned Brubak with
Speaker 2: that before. And milk quadruple Yeah, Mill ten equal.
Speaker 1: Mil forty, mill thirteen is like mill fifty whatever. Man,
Speaker 1: that's like your whole library. You just need to lose something.
Speaker 2: I'm not greater.
Speaker 1: So you're saying keep him banned.
Speaker 2: I think so you only because he's legendary, only because
Speaker 2: we're not doing a band as commander list. So I
Speaker 2: would keep him banned just because six mana turn two
Speaker 2: or turn three. Every single game is just people talking. Oh,
Speaker 2: the speed of a mana of jule lotis or of
Speaker 2: a turn one sol ring or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's only four mana, that's five man on turn two.
Speaker 1: This guy puts you at six mana on turn three.
Speaker 2: And then eight man on turn four, ten man on
Speaker 2: turn five.
Speaker 1: If you also didn't ramp on turn one, if you
Speaker 1: have raped, if yeah, if you if you did a
Speaker 1: like a man of cryptor vault, or if you did,
Speaker 1: can you imagine like forest mana crypt if it was
Speaker 1: still legal into signet turn two rufalos after a forest.
Speaker 1: You've got one, two, three, four, five, I've six seven
Speaker 1: man on turn two, eight man on turn two, whatever
Speaker 1: the math says.
Speaker 2: And it's not burst manu. That shit just sticks around.
Speaker 1: That just sticks around.
Speaker 2: And you know what, you could genu wave for ten
Speaker 2: on turn three.
Speaker 1: Hey, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2: That's not bad. I used to be eight. But still
Speaker 2: that's a lot.
Speaker 1: This guy being legendary. I hate doing this. It's like
Speaker 1: getting a purple nurple. I don't like it. But I
Speaker 1: would say let's leave him banned. If he wasn't legendary,
Speaker 1: I would take him off. And you know what, I
Speaker 1: think this is the first legend we've discussed at length.
Speaker 1: Because if he wasn't legendary, I like he wouldn't be
Speaker 1: as big of an issue. Maybe that's maybe that's all
Speaker 1: of them though, right, well, I think.
Speaker 2: Most of them are think they're kind of a lot
Speaker 2: of the other commanders are kind of feel bad commanders.
Speaker 2: We talked about the one that Leohold counters every spell
Speaker 2: and Leobold flying Man, and.
Speaker 1: No, that's a trust flying man. Leovold is the one
Speaker 1: that like makes you sit, can't draw.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, uh whatever, yeah, whatever the hell that guy is.
Speaker 2: And there was the other lady that just ruins your
Speaker 2: life brave right kind of feel baddie. Rufellos represents my
Speaker 2: deck is stronger than fucking yours because I have more
Speaker 2: manna than you do. And that's just it.
Speaker 1: And that's the exact reason cited why Manacrypt and Juel
Speaker 1: Lotus and potentially Man of Vault and and I would
Speaker 1: ox side that's the reason that all of those were banned.
Speaker 2: And I would agree with all of that if you
Speaker 2: could play them in your command zone, but you can't,
Speaker 2: so I don't if for Fellows could be just if
Speaker 2: he was just elf Rufellos emissary Fellos emissary, and it
Speaker 2: was a non legendary too.
Speaker 1: One. Yeah, if he was just Lana War Emissary, which is.
Speaker 2: Another card, but you know what, Yeah, that's whyssary. But
Speaker 2: I think that that would be a very powerful card.
Speaker 2: I think that people there'd be lots of discussion about it,
Speaker 2: and people would be talking about it in the same
Speaker 2: breath as things like Dockside. But I think that you
Speaker 2: could still get away with playing it. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: would last week if you listened, I was on team
Speaker 2: like leave docs banned, like whatever. I'm fine with it,
Speaker 2: and I guess he would be held in the same
Speaker 2: kind of account. But if they were to just print
Speaker 2: Raffelos's Emissary today, I'd be fine with it, and then
Speaker 2: it would eventually get banned because no, no, it wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Actually it wouldn't because it doesn't scale for three other
Speaker 2: players like Dockside does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, next card here, this is the one. I actively
Speaker 1: do not like this card.
Speaker 2: I also, I thought it was hilarious when I read
Speaker 2: it the first time.
Speaker 1: When you were a younger Magic player, and we talked
Speaker 1: about it last week. It's Shahara's ad.
Speaker 2: I took it to the dude bros. Yeah, and everybody
Speaker 2: around the table. When I said Shahia's ad, They're all like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, except for the new guy was like,
Speaker 2: what Shaharaes that doing? And we told him that sounds
Speaker 2: fucking awesome, and then we explained to him why it's
Speaker 2: not awesome and he was like, oh yeah, Like I
Speaker 2: still think that's really cool. I'll give it a read,
Speaker 2: but I understand why we ban it.
Speaker 1: White White Sorcery players play a magic sub game using
Speaker 1: their libraries as their decks. Each player who doesn't win
Speaker 1: the sub game loses half their life rounded up. M Okay,
Speaker 1: so you take you you leave everything on the table.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna Coles notes this shit because at the end
Speaker 1: of this Cole's notes, we're gonna say stays mad, stays man. Okay,
Speaker 1: you take the remainder of your deck and you put
Speaker 1: everything that's currently in the game your hand exiled everywhere,
Speaker 1: everything every fucking over here, shoffle your deck up. Play
Speaker 1: another game, the winner, go.
Speaker 2: Back to forty. Play another game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the winner of that game. Nothing happens. And then
Speaker 1: what happens after you just shuffle up those cards into
Speaker 1: your library again, Like there's so much baggage with this,
Speaker 1: and then as if like, oh man, the loser of
Speaker 1: that game losers. The losers of that game lose half
Speaker 1: their life. And then you go back to the first game,
Speaker 1: as if there's not already another wrong with that. You
Speaker 1: freaking take up everybody's time, everybody's space. You don't lose
Speaker 1: if you lose the subgame. No, you just freaking lose
Speaker 1: half your life. It's ridiculous in the real game. In
Speaker 1: the real game. And if if freaking if all of
Speaker 1: your best cards in your win cons are in your
Speaker 1: hand waiting to be spent in the real game because
Speaker 1: you're gonna win, you're gonna lose the subgame and lose
Speaker 1: half your life, and then you're gonna go back to
Speaker 1: the real game and cast the stuff that's in your
Speaker 1: hand to win. You're just gonna win anyway. So sha
Speaker 1: hears ad doesn't do anything except make the game go
Speaker 1: literally forever, because you don't have your win con in
Speaker 1: the subgame. It's the stupidest, most ridiculous card that should
Speaker 1: never have been even thought into existence. And that's me
Speaker 1: saying that, and I don't say that kind of shit
Speaker 1: like ever. Sha Hera's ad is ridiculous and it's five
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: And let's not even go into the fact that anybody
Speaker 2: who's gonna play this, we all know what they're really
Speaker 2: gonna do. They're gonna go Shahara is Ad and everybody's
Speaker 2: gonna go make the face, make the face, and then
Speaker 2: they're gonna go FOURK, make the face again, make it harder.
Speaker 2: Then they're gonna go twin cast, and then you're gonna
Speaker 2: play a sun game of a subgame. I quit, I quit,
Speaker 2: and everybody's gonna quit the game, and nobody's having a
Speaker 2: good time. And everybody, Yeah, this card sucks and should
Speaker 2: Actually the card doesn't suck. The card is hilarious. The
Speaker 2: fact that exists is amazing. Yes, but it should stay
Speaker 2: banned and be banned everywhere as it is for every
Speaker 2: reason that Ryan just outlined.
Speaker 1: For everywhere, for everyone, for all time.
Speaker 2: Yes, it should have a very strong name and a
Speaker 2: very blatant hometown and it should fucking stay there. Yes,
Speaker 2: and the town and vill.
Speaker 1: If that's a real place, probably it is. It might
Speaker 1: be Thundering Titan.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a this one and the next one.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about them individually, because they are very
Speaker 2: different cards. Sundering Titan is a seven to ten that's
Speaker 2: pretty big for eight colorless. When it enters the battlefield
Speaker 2: or leaves the battlefield or each basic land type, you
Speaker 2: destroy a land of that type. This card is absolutely
Speaker 2: outrageous and I would suggest deserves the banning that it got.
Speaker 1: What do you think enters your leaves, choose a land
Speaker 1: of each basic land type and destroy them. Man alive. Hey,
Speaker 1: this can get all the lands if you infa flicker
Speaker 1: it right, Yes, it can get everything because you pick
Speaker 1: and the things you picked are yes.
Speaker 2: Now it is a you have to pick one of
Speaker 2: each if available, so eventually you will have to start
Speaker 2: killing your own shit. But like, if you're info flickering
Speaker 2: of this titan, you're probably doing okay, and it's you're
Speaker 2: probably gonna stop flickering it after all of your opponent's
Speaker 2: land are dead.
Speaker 1: My question was if one of the base land types
Speaker 1: isn't present, it says right here, it just isn't fricking chosen,
Speaker 1: and you continue to sunder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So as long as you're not the only one
Speaker 2: playing mountains, you're fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And if somebody plays something like I don't know, an
Speaker 2: Herborg or a yav a maya cradle, of growth.
Speaker 1: If your land is more than one basic land type,
Speaker 1: it can also be choosed twice more than one time. Exactly.
Speaker 1: So if I'm playing like black and you're playing a
Speaker 1: try land and one of those land types is a swamp,
Speaker 1: I can choose your swamp and your island if they're
Speaker 1: the same card, right. So, like, there's so many different options,
Speaker 1: and it happens on enter and exit, and it's not targeted,
Speaker 1: and you can't do anything when the ability starts to resolve,
Speaker 1: Like you can't tap and respond to it once it
Speaker 1: starts to resolve. So, oh man, this card is.
Speaker 2: There's people out there stand right now, they're saying.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's fine a cost. You have to purposely build
Speaker 1: around it to abuse it. You have to blink it.
Speaker 1: It's a stacks card. It's actually a win con. There's
Speaker 1: reasons to play this card, for sure. But like so
Speaker 1: many other things on the list, when Sundering Titan goes
Speaker 1: into your deck, you're already doing things that Sundering Titan
Speaker 1: cares about, destroying lands, blinking, locking your opponents out, and
Speaker 1: this just gives you a really good way to do
Speaker 1: that and a really good way to lock them because
Speaker 1: you probably have a bounce engine like able to oh,
Speaker 1: you played a land for turn, I'm gonna flicker, sundering titan,
Speaker 1: kill it, continue to lock them out and see or
Speaker 1: three whatever list I was counting on also gives you
Speaker 1: a really good way to kill them because it's like
Speaker 1: pretty big.
Speaker 2: It's a seven to ten. It's going to attack into
Speaker 2: virtually anything and kill it and survive. Or it's gonna
Speaker 2: block virtually anything, kill it and survive. And I have
Speaker 2: a deck right now today and it's not necessary a
Speaker 2: super polished, good blink deck, but I'll bet you in
Speaker 2: that deck, I could tap eight, play this, kill five lands,
Speaker 2: blinkt before combat, kill five more lands. It's gonna come
Speaker 2: back at the end of my turn, kill five more lands,
Speaker 2: and they're gonna blink it again and kill ten more lands.
Speaker 2: And that's just if I've played the cards in my
Speaker 2: deck already. And that isn't a ten card Conboy talked
Speaker 2: about it's three. So yeah, I killed twenty five lands
Speaker 2: for eight MANU. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: The other thing too, And this just goes into all
Speaker 1: of the comments and discussion I saw as to like
Speaker 1: why people think or why this or why that, Like
Speaker 1: maybe we didn't explain enough things last time because we
Speaker 1: were trying to do cards in mass. But a lot
Speaker 1: of cards like Sundering Titan have some kind of clause
Speaker 1: that say, if it would go into your graveyard, shuffle
Speaker 1: it back in instead, or when it hits your graveyard,
Speaker 1: shuffle it or shuffle your graveyard back.
Speaker 2: In rossey Ty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they make it so you can't like in
Speaker 1: tune and then reanimate them on turn frickin' two. Right,
Speaker 1: Sundering Titan doesn't have that either, So that's just another
Speaker 1: kind of thing on the list of why it's really powerful.
Speaker 1: Because if you can get a Sundering Titan out like
Speaker 1: turn two and destroy virtually every single land on the table,
Speaker 1: and or if you're pairing it with like you do
Speaker 1: at high power tables, a lot of Mani ROCs, you
Speaker 1: might not actually be behind that much. If you're first
Speaker 1: or among the first players to play where you've deployed
Speaker 1: manirocks before other players have. If you kill their lands,
Speaker 1: they can't get their manirocks out that they had planned
Speaker 1: their game around playing. Yep. So those are all these
Speaker 1: reasons right Thundering Titan, though, if you compare it to
Speaker 1: things that lock games out or win games or reset
Speaker 1: games that I said unbanned last week, like Worldfire, which
Speaker 1: is unbanned bio orrhythm. I'm thinking of Wildfire destroy four
Speaker 1: four lands of every player and then deals five damage
Speaker 1: to each creature or some ship.
Speaker 2: Six more than that.
Speaker 1: There's cards like Wildfire that deal damage to every creature
Speaker 1: and destroy a whole bunch of lands. There's a card
Speaker 1: called Devastation that destroys all lands of a certain type. Ye, well,
Speaker 1: if you just play rboorg, Devastation like that does the
Speaker 1: same thing. Armageddon is another one. This costs eight. Armageddon
Speaker 1: costs four eight inc band ruination.
Speaker 2: We've talked about a bunch of times show ruination.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying Sundering Titan should be banned because
Speaker 1: land destruction is bad. I'm saying it's so easy to do.
Speaker 2: It's when it enters and when it leads, it leaves.
Speaker 2: It can be played in every single deck, every single deck,
Speaker 2: and it's very easy to maneuver. And it's an artifact,
Speaker 2: so it's so easy to bounce in and out of
Speaker 2: play in hand and like it. It's a it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: It's much more ridiculous than the next card we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about. I don't even that one might be
Speaker 2: one of.
Speaker 1: My last my last thing about some titan hit me unbanned.
Speaker 2: Welcome now, I don't fuck them now, I don't Ryan's
Speaker 2: wrong on this one. I'm gonna next next up, this one,
Speaker 2: you could maybe make a case for the stars, Babykay.
Speaker 1: Of the Stars is like Worldfire kind of Okay, so
Speaker 1: this is blue blue eight count it that's ten ten,
Speaker 1: kind of like Worldfire in that like Echelon of manacost Sorcery,
Speaker 1: kind of like Worldfire. Each player shuffles their their hand,
Speaker 1: graveyard and permanence into their library, then draws seven. Each
Speaker 1: player's life total becomes seven. Kind of like World Fire.
Speaker 2: Ah hmm, okay, here's the difference. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 2: the difference.
Speaker 1: I like this card.
Speaker 2: The difference Sway of the Stars in World Fire is
Speaker 2: world Fire typically will end the game on the spot.
Speaker 2: Usually the damage that you need to do the one
Speaker 2: is already happening. It's already demonstrated, it's happening. The game
Speaker 2: is over. But there's a step that has there's a
Speaker 2: step in the stack that has to.
Speaker 1: And it's called world fire.
Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, sway of the Stars is different in that
Speaker 2: seven is a lot harder to float in the air
Speaker 2: and demonstrate than one.
Speaker 1: Yes, and you're putting everybody back to the start of
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So when World Fire like fucksed you, like
Speaker 4: it fucks you up, like it exiles all your shit,
Speaker 4: it doesn't restart the game, whereas Sway of the Stars
Speaker 4: restarts the game.
Speaker 2: Yes, if the game starts at seven.
Speaker 1: Let me read Worldfire real quick red red red six sorcery,
Speaker 1: exile all permanents, excel, all cards from all hands and graveyards.
Speaker 1: Each player's life total becomes one, so world Fire can
Speaker 1: completely blanks everything. And this is this is if you
Speaker 1: and I were playing World Fire. This how goes world Fire.
Speaker 1: Everybody goes to one. Excel all your shit go. If
Speaker 1: I don't have one damage on the stack, yeah, go
Speaker 1: you say, draw go draw Oh draw go draw Land
Speaker 1: Go draw Land go And it's fast and we all
Speaker 1: get to contribute, kind of like top deck mode. Sway
Speaker 1: of the Stars says, hey, start the game over, except
Speaker 1: you're at seven, and it's like, okay, I've got seven
Speaker 1: cards in hand and it's a new game except for
Speaker 1: everything that was exiled. Yes, maybe if I exiled all
Speaker 1: your stuff with like attash is hideous laughter.
Speaker 2: We haven't exiled anything except I guess yeah, if you
Speaker 2: exile the graveyard, then you can't get.
Speaker 1: It, like prior to Sway of the Stars. If I
Speaker 1: exile a bunch of your stuff in mass yeah, or
Speaker 1: if you're playing against like what's the what's the red
Speaker 1: black guy that draws from exile? No, no, I want
Speaker 1: to say usher, but I know that's a That guy's
Speaker 1: a different guy.
Speaker 2: That's me. Imagine if prosper prosper let's playing lay Line
Speaker 2: of the Void.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then millenim the Way the Stars makes
Speaker 1: that guy's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then game worse. That's real good. But Sway the.
Speaker 1: Stars essentially gives you, like a magic a secondary game
Speaker 1: at seven life.
Speaker 2: It's Shahara's Ad but for real stake.
Speaker 1: And if Shahara is ad and Worldfire had a baby,
Speaker 1: a star there it is there. It is fucking ban
Speaker 1: them all and I could.
Speaker 2: I used to play we talked about Worldfire. I used
Speaker 2: to play Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation and the same deck.
Speaker 2: And there was actually a game I was playing with
Speaker 2: you and Jesse and I played both of them in
Speaker 2: the same game and I lost.
Speaker 1: Well, of course, could people try to pound you, slap
Speaker 1: your lips into the dirt, stomp your dink.
Speaker 2: Right through your butthole and it happened?
Speaker 1: Turn it into an out up like an inny.
Speaker 2: I look like a glove, yeah, side out glove.
Speaker 1: With one finger, yeah, one finger the size of someone's arm.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's the Sway of the Stars.
Speaker 1: I think we can just last word on Sway the Star.
Speaker 2: I think Sway of the Stars we could probably, Honestly,
Speaker 2: I think we probably could.
Speaker 1: On bann.
Speaker 2: But I can see why it is banned.
Speaker 1: I can see why it's banned.
Speaker 2: Unbannit, but I think you probably get away with unbanning
Speaker 2: that because somebody's gonna play at one time in their
Speaker 2: friend group and people are just gonna like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ma, fuck you, yeah you know what? Hey, how
Speaker 1: many games when it's turn eight? Would you mind like
Speaker 1: playing a sudden death round? This is sudden death in
Speaker 1: Super Smash Bros. Sway the Stars, Baby, we're all at
Speaker 1: seven goal.
Speaker 2: This isn't sudden death.
Speaker 1: World wildfirea death.
Speaker 2: This isn't sudden death. This is like restarting and you
Speaker 2: have time to read because how often do you take
Speaker 2: seven damage in the first four or five?
Speaker 1: Get like I like, you know what Sway the Stars
Speaker 1: makes commander feel like limited. Let's get your chip ins. Kids.
Speaker 1: We always say that.
Speaker 2: I hate limited.
Speaker 1: Sway the Star. That's card Sylvan Primordial, this is the one.
Speaker 1: This is Primetime is little brother, This.
Speaker 2: Is prime This is primetimes little brother who had like
Speaker 2: everything given to him when he was a little kid,
Speaker 2: and now he's just an asshole.
Speaker 1: Sylvan Primordial is Primetime sexy Sister. That's what I think.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's I think he's the asshole little brother.
Speaker 1: Let me read him, let me read them, read them.
Speaker 2: He's a six eight Avatar or Green Green five with reach,
Speaker 2: Oh giants with reach sisters given reach around love it
Speaker 2: comes into play for each opponent you destroy target non
Speaker 2: creature permanent. That player controls each opponent. Then me, the
Speaker 2: controller of Silvern Primordial, searches through my deck for a
Speaker 2: forest and puts it into play for each one of
Speaker 2: those things, for each one of the things that I kill.
Speaker 1: So you get like three things, yes, three fours, So
Speaker 1: your guy costs like four for a six eight with reach.
Speaker 2: Well they're they're tapped. Sure you can get read.
Speaker 1: Get them on layaway, get them on lay away. It's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's total mana spent versus gained.
Speaker 2: Right, And this is also important. It's not a basic forest.
Speaker 2: It's just a forest, so you can find trylands, shocklands,
Speaker 2: dual lands, whatever you want.
Speaker 1: It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Ok very good.
Speaker 1: This guy's good because he essentially this is better tear
Speaker 1: astil dawn that gives your opponents zero benefits.
Speaker 2: And gives you lots of all of the benefits. And
Speaker 2: this thing can block it to Rastodon won't kill it,
Speaker 2: but it won't die either.
Speaker 1: Okay, Silvian Primordial. Very good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that this one for the you see
Speaker 2: all the arguments that we had for prime time. Not
Speaker 2: actually I'm the primetime example is different.
Speaker 1: I think people compare them too much.
Speaker 2: I think that I think that people assume these cards
Speaker 2: are too similar. This is much more close to Thundering Titan,
Speaker 2: where if you have a way of recurring and playing
Speaker 2: in a game, Green isn't that much far off of
Speaker 2: being an artifact that I can think of four or
Speaker 2: five cards off the top of my head that'll put
Speaker 2: this back into my hand from the bin after I
Speaker 2: sack it to make I don't know, seven man out.
Speaker 1: Of never mind. You can play this a ratic portal
Speaker 1: and you just paid bounce it and just don't pay
Speaker 1: the one. Yeah, with a ratic portal and you just
Speaker 1: played again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're getting so much advantage over time while
Speaker 2: putting your opponents so far behind. I'm not saying it's
Speaker 2: so egregious and so abusable. I think that Sun Titan
Speaker 2: is a different level of magnitude of like bad card.
Speaker 2: So maybe I could see unbanning this, but I kind of.
Speaker 1: Don't want to. I like this little game that I
Speaker 1: just made up with The last card is if Primetime
Speaker 1: and Sundering Titan had a baby, it would be Silver Primordial. Yep,
Speaker 1: almost exactly. You're splitting the Manecost exactly. You've got in
Speaker 1: Silvern Primordial, you've got Primeval Titan's power, and you've got
Speaker 1: the differential in power and toughness like Sundering Titan has.
Speaker 1: You've got to destroy a bunch of stuff for each
Speaker 1: opponent that Sundering Titan has, and you've got the fine
Speaker 1: lands that Primeval Titan has.
Speaker 2: And if people that's pretty cool. Hey, Brando, would you
Speaker 2: play Silver Primordial. I have three Foil Ones that I
Speaker 2: had to take out of decks immediately after they were banned.
Speaker 2: So I have played this card. I've seen the look
Speaker 2: on my friend's face has played this card, and I
Speaker 2: don't miss it.
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 2: I will say that.
Speaker 1: I took my Foil Primetime and my Foil Sylvan Primordial
Speaker 1: out of the same deck when when they got banned sequentially,
Speaker 1: and those were decks that just played green dumb idiots,
Speaker 1: because I'm a dumb idiot and wasn't doing anything like
Speaker 1: egregious with them. I was just playing them because they're
Speaker 1: hyper powerful magic cards, and if you count on.
Speaker 2: Its face, it does all those things that we said,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna channel Aidan a little bit. Okay,
Speaker 2: my friend Aiden who loves the lands decks. If you
Speaker 2: were to put this into a deck with say a
Speaker 2: Scoot Swarm or a Onnath Locus of Rage or some
Speaker 2: other landfall payoff that also gives you three additional landfall payoffs, yeah,
Speaker 2: that could be backbreaking, depending on what you're looking at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and man, you know what, I'm I'm always just
Speaker 1: drawing comparisons on like cost elevation and abilities and how
Speaker 1: powerful or what those abilities are. And it's like the
Speaker 1: terrash On comparison I think is great, like last week's
Speaker 1: Hullbreacher and notion Thief. Different things, different man of costs.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, I know, I know
Speaker 1: they're not strict comparisons. But I can pay less Manna
Speaker 1: to get a better effect than Tarastidon and still like
Speaker 1: tussle with a tarrastd on, this card is clearly better
Speaker 1: than that one, yes, and by a lot.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, because less is almost as
Speaker 2: big and does better stuff.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, how much how much would
Speaker 1: I see this card? Like? How much am I going
Speaker 1: to run into this card? Not very much. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's so many cards.
Speaker 2: Well, how often do you run into Trastoedon?
Speaker 1: Never?
Speaker 2: I run into traston sometimes. But I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think that people would play this.
Speaker 1: Shit and they would have been absolutely they would abuse it.
Speaker 1: They would abuse it, like like people assume TARMAGOI. There's
Speaker 1: lots of money price memory, right, Yeah, tarmaguoif used to
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars card, now it's six. People used to say, oh,
Speaker 1: Silvi Primori is the best green card in commander and
Speaker 1: people would be like, must be good. I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: it in my deck, and then they find out Oh
Speaker 1: fuck yeah it is. Yeah that's true. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: they do. Okay, time Vault do we do?
Speaker 2: I feel like time Vault is an obvious.
Speaker 1: Stay banned because you take infinite turns with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's infinite turns, right on it, as long as
Speaker 2: you have a way to untap an artifact, which is like,
Speaker 2: shut up and get out of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Time walk. We're not talking about Power nine because
Speaker 1: time walk to extra turn for two minutes. Pret goody good,
Speaker 1: especially if I fork it. Yeah, especially if I freakin
Speaker 1: Narcetes reversal it, because then I can.
Speaker 2: Do it again. See all the things we said about
Speaker 2: Shahara's ad, but just for you and then you win
Speaker 2: the game.
Speaker 1: Okay, Tanker Tinker is I love this card.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna let me let me say my bit
Speaker 2: on Tinker first and then your turn. So I think
Speaker 2: that with Tinker it should stay banned because of the
Speaker 2: same reasons that and I'm gonna cat shit for this
Speaker 2: that Primetime should be banned because I think that Tinker,
Speaker 2: if Eagle would limit design space when you're making commander
Speaker 2: stuff because the instant you pick a super duper I
Speaker 2: win immediately artifact card turn one every game tanker and
Speaker 2: you can't have that. You just can't have that in existence.
Speaker 2: Like I know there are other cards that do it,
Speaker 2: but this is the one that they chose to get
Speaker 2: rid of.
Speaker 1: You could say that about jeweld Lotus too, right, if
Speaker 1: there's some like two card with your Commander two card
Speaker 1: with your three cost Commander, and you could do that
Speaker 1: turn one with Jeweled Lotus and another man Rock like whatever,
Speaker 1: It's like, Yeah, Jewel Lotus for that reason limits design
Speaker 1: space on three drop commanders. The same can be said
Speaker 1: of Tinker. Okay, so let's read it. It's a sorcery
Speaker 1: for Blue two as an additional cost. Additional cost, mind
Speaker 1: you not part of the effect. Additional cost sack an
Speaker 1: artifact and then what you do is search your library
Speaker 1: for an artifact card and put that onto the battlefield.
Speaker 1: So Tinker blight Steel or Tinker Dark Steel was the
Speaker 1: like vintage Combo a long time ago because it's two puncher,
Speaker 1: but then it became tinkerd blite Steel because a one
Speaker 1: puncher because it deals eleven infect to you, and that's
Speaker 1: I'm trying like one that same exact thing would actually
Speaker 1: happen quite a bit in Commander. I think if you
Speaker 1: open your hand, if you open the game with Tinker
Speaker 1: and a Man of Rock, you can get your dark
Speaker 1: Steel out on turn two because lo and behold you
Speaker 1: sacrifice the artifact Man of Rock, you already have it
Speaker 1: built in.
Speaker 2: And then you play the artifact lands and Bob is
Speaker 2: my uncle, which is still true yep, and like yeah,
Speaker 2: and the most powerful artifacts haven't even been printed yet,
Speaker 2: but they're coming. And I think that Tinker is like
Speaker 2: a little because somebody's like, Tinker, what if they Tinker
Speaker 2: this into play you guys, and we can't print this
Speaker 2: ludicrous doctor Octopus's arms card, and I know that they've
Speaker 2: already spoiled.
Speaker 1: Octopus is smelling arm pit tight eight, It's just octo pit.
Speaker 2: Right. Then there's then the people who are paying them
Speaker 2: all the money to advertise on all the matter cards
Speaker 2: are gonna be mad because their cards aren't very good
Speaker 2: because they left Tinker legal and because money, Hey, the secret.
Speaker 1: Secret Layer Tinker with just different arts from all the
Speaker 1: different universes. Beyond that, we can tutor broken artifacts from
Speaker 1: Doctor Octopus's armput freaking bilbol Beggin's dildo. I mean, man,
Speaker 1: it's the list is endless, freaking Tifa Lockhart's bra. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say butt plug. Haven't made a butt
Speaker 1: plug or a cam girl joking years that's a long time. Wow.
Speaker 1: The C and C CEO the first C stands for camgirl?
Speaker 2: Is that true?
Speaker 1: That's my story. I'm sticking to it, all right, Tinker.
Speaker 1: I love this card. It's super cool. I uh, gun
Speaker 1: to your head? We did this last week. Gun to
Speaker 1: your head Tinker or Panoptic Mirror? Who's staying banned?
Speaker 2: Tinker?
Speaker 1: Tinker or Paradox Engine? Who's staying banned? Who? Fuck?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one, because you're just gonna tinker
Speaker 2: for the mirror or you're gonna tinker for the fucking
Speaker 2: So I would still leave Tinker band.
Speaker 1: Tinker Band, all right, Tinker band. You heard it here first.
Speaker 1: He wants Paradox Engine unbanned. He wants it unbanned?
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean I do so.
Speaker 1: They're an academy.
Speaker 2: Gotta leave a band. And here's why Cradles unbanned. Cradle
Speaker 2: and Sarah Sanctum are both unbanned.
Speaker 3: That is true, but Raft's Edges unbanned, shiven Gorges unbanned,
Speaker 3: Rat's Edge, different cycle, but shiven Gorges Tower and Tower
Speaker 3: it's unbanned.
Speaker 2: You're looking. There's too many artifactoe. Every fucking set comes
Speaker 2: out with scrap, junk, blood clue, butt plug. But there's
Speaker 2: so many fucking artifact tokens, and they're so easy to
Speaker 2: make because some of them are so goddamn.
Speaker 1: Bass zero drops, jeweled bird, jeweled butt plug, jeweled artifact lands.
Speaker 1: None of those are banned, and there's like fifteen of them. Now.
Speaker 2: There has never been a game where I play the
Speaker 2: is it Enchantment that makes treasures and then flip over
Speaker 2: into a Tilarian Academy that I have not one immediately
Speaker 2: upon slip flipping that n not a single one.
Speaker 1: You said that last week about a card too. Never
Speaker 1: have I cast this card and not one. I only
Speaker 1: have one card like that.
Speaker 2: There's a because it's Tilarian Academy, as you know, because
Speaker 2: you've played it in Commander is so fucking strong in
Speaker 2: just an incidentally artifactory deck, and I played in Brutoclad
Speaker 2: because brutal Clad just makes tokens, you know, most of
Speaker 2: those tokens are artifacts.
Speaker 1: You know what comparison I really like? Everybody says Guy's
Speaker 1: Cradle and Sarah's Sanctum, while Sarah's Sanctum gives you white
Speaker 1: off of enchantments. Enchantments usually cost more than one or
Speaker 1: two mana usually correct, and creatures die lots and creatures
Speaker 1: usually cost more than one or two mana for Guy's Cradle. Okay,
Speaker 1: Silarian Academy, he get artifact lands smart against big red
Speaker 1: ex But you know what I think a really good
Speaker 1: comparison for Claring Academy is is dock Side Extortionist or
Speaker 1: channel yea cards in your hand. But listen to this. Listen, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: listen to this. Though generally Dockside is good because generally
Speaker 1: people play artifacts in their commander deck, right, and generally
Speaker 1: Hilaried Academy is good because I play artifacts in my
Speaker 1: own deck. That's why Dockside's good. Remember, imagine if I
Speaker 1: had a land that I could probably tutor for search
Speaker 1: for if I'm playing Black, tutor for land. If I'm
Speaker 1: playing Green and I would want to play those two
Speaker 1: colors along with my blue deck, I can just add
Speaker 1: in a whole bunch of artifacts and just like you say,
Speaker 1: I'm playing magic and now my island actually taps for ten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it might be like turn.
Speaker 2: Three yeah, oh yeah, that's pretty bad.
Speaker 1: I want this card unbanned so badly.
Speaker 2: I would love to say we should unban this, but
Speaker 2: you can't. You can for unbanned till they'ren account.
Speaker 1: You can't.
Speaker 2: You can't. It's it's too strong, frick. It has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with the cost, this game reserve list, It
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with anything. It's the fact that
Speaker 2: this card is too good on turn one because it
Speaker 2: all that cares about his artifact.
Speaker 1: I got one burned in a hole in a good
Speaker 1: box waiting for it to get unbanned.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna frick. It's gonna keep burning that whole baby.
Speaker 1: Play legacy merely restricted.
Speaker 2: Yes, they one of them invented, because that's life.
Speaker 1: In your sixty card deck. Okay, this is a fun card.
Speaker 1: I actually like this card.
Speaker 2: I played this card in lots of deck.
Speaker 1: This is trade secrets. This is a sorcery for blue
Speaker 1: Blue one and it says draw up to four cards. Okay,
Speaker 1: one of your opponents pick an opponent, they draw two
Speaker 1: every time that they repeat this process, and I can
Speaker 1: draw up to four a game.
Speaker 2: They can draw two as many times as they want,
Speaker 2: and every time they do, we can draw four or
Speaker 2: three or two or one or none. Yes, and everybody draws.
Speaker 1: The reason it's banned is because a little bit it
Speaker 1: created lopsided power kind of or like power and balances,
Speaker 1: where if I target Brando, I say draw two. Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I draw four. You want to go again. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I go again. You gonna go again, And that would
Speaker 1: go on until I've got like sixty cards in my hand.
Speaker 1: He's got twenty. He found his combo piece. I found
Speaker 1: fifteen of my combo pieces. And because it's my turn,
Speaker 1: I'll just play my hand of forty. And if I'm
Speaker 1: playing anything that doesn't make me discard or wants me
Speaker 1: to discard, I have it all. I've just won. I've
Speaker 1: just won because he wanted to draw cards, and we
Speaker 1: both get greedy. If I don't win, he's probably gonna win,
Speaker 1: and it just it turned into not a fun card
Speaker 1: to play against, even though it was fun in theory
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: Let me hit you with the the very dark side
Speaker 2: of trade secret.
Speaker 1: Ooh, the deep Web trade secret.
Speaker 2: Let's say Ryan and Brando show up to a competitive
Speaker 2: four prizes event.
Speaker 1: Yes, that we had to pay money to enter.
Speaker 2: That we had to pay money to enter, And now
Speaker 2: we're both playing trade secrets in our decks. Yes, and
Speaker 2: we've agreed going into the building that day that we're
Speaker 2: gonna split all of our prizes and we're gonna make
Speaker 2: sure that we're in the same pods all day.
Speaker 1: As much as we can.
Speaker 2: Trade secrets allows us to collude with one another to
Speaker 2: essentially remove the other two players from the game, because
Speaker 2: Ryan's gonna play it and win, and if he doesn't,
Speaker 2: I'm probably gonna win because the other two players are
Speaker 2: going to use their resources up stopping him. So they
Speaker 2: had nothing left to stop me, because we have drawn
Speaker 2: everything we need.
Speaker 1: Exactly and if they did have resources, while so does
Speaker 1: the guy, the other guy that trade secreted, who just
Speaker 1: drew twenty or thirty cards.
Speaker 2: And that's like, that's the ceiling of scumbag of how
Speaker 2: trade secrets can be used. But we have both played
Speaker 2: sorry friends in Calgary, have played in Calgary enough to
Speaker 2: know that that shit would go on.
Speaker 1: That and that would not absolutely go on for sure.
Speaker 1: The fun side of trade secrets, the reason that I alway, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: super fun. The reason I would like pick it for
Speaker 1: it to be un banned is think of when I've
Speaker 1: got my consecrated Sphinx and you clone my consecrated Sphinx,
Speaker 1: and when I draw you draw two. When you draw two,
Speaker 1: I draw four. When I draw four, you draw eight,
Speaker 1: and it goes and goes and goes until somebody's like, okay,
Speaker 1: hold on a second, I'm just gonna kill both of them,
Speaker 1: and you guys have to discard, or even better, one time,
Speaker 1: I'm playing FuG Off and I go trades Jeff trade secrets.
Speaker 1: He goes, oh, okay, we just start going, and he
Speaker 1: drew thirty five cards or something, thirty six cards or
Speaker 1: something until he found He's like, okay, I've got my
Speaker 1: combo piece. I go. Has everybody tapped out? Yeah, Jeff
Speaker 1: you yeah, I go. Cerebral Vortex target player takes damage
Speaker 1: equal to numbers of cards they drew this turn. He
Speaker 1: took thirty six and just died. He's like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: pretty good. I was like, yeah, I was hoping you'd
Speaker 1: keep going until I drew that to fucking get you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I got him, and that kind of stuff exists
Speaker 1: in punishes people for being greedy, much like four or
Speaker 1: five color decks when they get blood mooned.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And if you want to get greedy with trade secrets,
Speaker 1: like maybe you're gonna pay the price. But because of
Speaker 1: the collusion, because of the unfunness for two players at
Speaker 1: the table. If something's unfun for three players and they
Speaker 1: all bandy together to kill the one player who's playing
Speaker 1: stacks at a casual table as an example, sure I
Speaker 1: don't mind that. That's because somebody's got to be the
Speaker 1: bad guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people figure that you'll figure the puzzle, you'll get them.
Speaker 1: Trade secrets allows two guys to be the bad guy
Speaker 1: and just take a shit right into somebody's mouth.
Speaker 2: They're just a mango sized shit right next to the
Speaker 2: prize pile. And then they their partner while the other
Speaker 2: guy's shitting and you're so horrified, their partner just takes
Speaker 2: the prizes. Yes, So I think that trade Secrets should
Speaker 2: be banned, not because of what it does, but because
Speaker 2: how I think it would probably be used. And that's
Speaker 2: not an indictment on anybody, but I feel like we
Speaker 2: all can see the clue happening.
Speaker 1: Man, we are hitting up some heavy hitters. Our next
Speaker 1: card is upheaval return all permanence to their owner's hand.
Speaker 1: This is essentially Sway of the Stars, except you have
Speaker 1: to discard a whole bunch. This is essentially Sway the
Speaker 1: Stars or Worldfire or Sundering Titan, except you don't like
Speaker 1: it's just a different version of that.
Speaker 2: Right, it's psych rift, but it hits you two and
Speaker 2: it hits lands.
Speaker 1: Return all permanence to their owner's hand for Blue Blue
Speaker 1: four at sourcery speed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like you that what you do to play
Speaker 2: this card? The argument, Well, here's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tap all my shit. I'm gonna use six
Speaker 2: of my ships to upheaval, and i'm gonna replay all
Speaker 2: my shit again, and you're gonna go land discard down
Speaker 2: to seven probably go right, And it has the same
Speaker 2: kind of an impact on a game as a psych
Speaker 2: rift does, but it can't be used as strategically and
Speaker 2: would probably just end up as like a one insided
Speaker 2: kind of a drawn out slog until the person that
Speaker 2: played up Evil probably wins the game. Yeah, unless you're
Speaker 2: playing again. We talked to him last week. The Chaos Gremlins,
Speaker 2: the griefers that just play up evil and fuck those people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, strategically it was popular and standard like back in
Speaker 1: two thousand and one or two, because you could upheaval
Speaker 1: and then recast your psychotog, and psychotogue allows you to
Speaker 1: discard cards to pump it and then exile cards from
Speaker 1: your graveyard to pump it again. So you would just
Speaker 1: upheaval your whole board, discard down to just like make
Speaker 1: it an eight eight and then make it a twelve
Speaker 1: twelve and like two punch them or whatever. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's how upheaval psychotog worked in standard back then. But
Speaker 1: unless you're specifically leveraging discarding and exiling your graveyard or man,
Speaker 1: I like, I can't see any ways to play this
Speaker 1: that are a fun parody break or a fun puzzle
Speaker 1: for your sents to solve, like trying to fight through
Speaker 1: a stacks lock is. Yeah, there's just no way to
Speaker 1: do it because it is so one sided. And man,
Speaker 1: I want to I want to say unbanned because it
Speaker 1: does make one guy the bad guy. Yeah, it does
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: Yes, it does all the things that we've talked about
Speaker 2: when you're gonna be the bad guy. But I think
Speaker 2: this does it in such a way that it just
Speaker 2: fuck it sucks.
Speaker 1: What do you win? What do you want? Banning Sway
Speaker 1: the Stars are upheovle.
Speaker 2: Sway the Stars?
Speaker 1: I would I would rather Sway the Stars because it
Speaker 1: puts everybody to seven. And then you're playing like a
Speaker 1: little mini game. Yeah it's hair is that minigame.
Speaker 2: There's some actual parody there, whereas upeval is just again
Speaker 2: it's that slow fucking grind you to death. Probably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna tap my Tilarian Academy for seventeen.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna UPEVL then replay all my stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna replay all my zero cost there's Tilarian Academy again. Right,
Speaker 2: Why is Hilarian Academy still banned? Oh well, let me
Speaker 2: explain it to you, bro.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tap Tillary Academy for twenty one. I'm
Speaker 1: going to Upheaval floating fifteen cast emmera cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll do it. Oh that'll do, pig, that'll do.
Speaker 1: That'll do Okay, So if you want that, let's unban
Speaker 1: all three of those cards. Okay. Final card. I love
Speaker 1: love love this card, and.
Speaker 2: I honestly I as we usually do with lists. I
Speaker 2: feel like the last card I think is I'm going
Speaker 2: to say it the least offensive of the bunge.
Speaker 1: I do yog Moth's bargain. I love this card. I
Speaker 1: love the art, I love the effect. I love the
Speaker 1: set that it's from. I love that it's an enchantment.
Speaker 1: I love the man of cost. It's black black four
Speaker 1: for an enchantment that says two lines of texting you
Speaker 1: notes gooday, notes good when all it's got to do
Speaker 1: is say two freakin' things and it's banned. Okay, skip
Speaker 1: your drawstep suck. Yeah, I'm listening. I'm listening. Hit me up,
Speaker 1: pay one life, draw card.
Speaker 2: Oh oh shit.
Speaker 1: Aka ramp to six, pay thirty nine, draw half your deck,
Speaker 1: win the game.
Speaker 2: Yes on like turn two. Yes, fuck, that's a good card.
Speaker 1: Man. I like that card. I wish I could play
Speaker 1: that card now.
Speaker 2: I think that this should be on band Yeah me too,
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I want it to be on BET.
Speaker 2: I think it should be on Bend, not because I
Speaker 2: think it's awesome and not because I like it or whateverybody.
Speaker 2: And if you can play slow this which is necropotence
Speaker 2: significantly slower, not the same card, but I'm gonna use
Speaker 2: the use it as an example because it kind of
Speaker 2: does the same thing. I just don't think that yag
Speaker 2: Matt's bargigain at six manna as an enchantment is that
Speaker 2: egregious that it couldn't be a game changer.
Speaker 1: I think that this could be a game changer when
Speaker 1: you compare this to ad nauseum ad nauseum. I know
Speaker 1: you take zero for drawing land, but you also take
Speaker 1: one or two or three or four or five or
Speaker 1: six for drawing other things in your deck. So probably
Speaker 1: Yogmoth's bargain is a frickin' bargain. If you want to
Speaker 1: draw twenty five cards, I'll bet because you know it's
Speaker 1: twenty five life every single time. You get them right now,
Speaker 1: you can do it incrementally. So if somebody's trying to
Speaker 1: like get you, but you have to respond one at
Speaker 1: a time, it's better than a nauseum. It's better than
Speaker 1: necropotents in that way, because you get the cards right now.
Speaker 1: And Man Black already has a whole bunch of draw
Speaker 1: x lose x type things that if you chain them together.
Speaker 2: It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Or if you chain them together in addition to Bullus's Citadel,
Speaker 1: another black game changer where you go, oh, there's a
Speaker 1: draw to lose two on top my library. I guess
Speaker 1: I'll pay two to cast my draw to lose too,
Speaker 1: So I'm actually paying four. And that's that's really good
Speaker 1: and that's fine, and people already do that, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: This is like more manna than that, but also a
Speaker 1: little bit better because it's less cards, Like, when was.
Speaker 2: The last time you've seen anybody play greed?
Speaker 1: Greed?
Speaker 2: Yeah it cost it's an enchantment for black three ay
Speaker 2: one black and a life draw card? When the last
Speaker 2: time is much worse? Yagmants will what is the last
Speaker 2: time you ever? You didn't even know what it was?
Speaker 1: Yeah I did.
Speaker 2: Nobody plays that card.
Speaker 1: Nobody greed?
Speaker 2: Yeah, ay two life card, pay two.
Speaker 1: Life and a black to draw card four man enchantment.
Speaker 2: Nobody plays that, And I mean because its fucking sucks.
Speaker 1: Because it sucks because you've got to pay black into it, right,
Speaker 1: and if you did.
Speaker 2: This, let's use the example I wrapped a six on
Speaker 2: turn two, pay thirty nine life, draw half of my deck.
Speaker 2: You know what you could do there? Miss, because in
Speaker 2: Commander it's not your it's not half your deck.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: And you could hypothetically just get domed and then die
Speaker 2: to a raging goblin. Every single deck that you're playing
Speaker 2: against is capable of.
Speaker 1: Doing Yes, even the themes lady looking left decks can
Speaker 1: do one damage. Yeah. The thing about this though, is
Speaker 1: you are pairing it with black, and you are pairing
Speaker 1: it with things like Bacitadel, all the black tutors, because
Speaker 1: there's freaking the most of them in that color. Right,
Speaker 1: this card. I can recognize why it's banned. I can
Speaker 1: make comparisons to neckropotents and and ad nauseum like the
Speaker 1: ban article that Gavin put out I think did like
Speaker 1: I've heard other content creators do. I'm doing the same thing,
Speaker 1: and I still want it unbanned, just to see. I
Speaker 1: just to see, because man alive. This card is freaking good.
Speaker 1: And you know what happens when somebody knows that you're
Speaker 1: playing Yog's Bargain in your freaking deck. You know what happens.
Speaker 1: The next game, get brutalized, you get freaking pounded. Turn one,
Speaker 1: get your chip ins. Yeah, hey take one, that's one
Speaker 1: less card you can draw. Oh uh yeah, I got
Speaker 1: this untapped guy. Oh yeah, take three. That's three less
Speaker 1: cards you can draw. That doesn't take away from the
Speaker 1: power of Yogmanth's Bargain. But I'm not even I don't
Speaker 1: even have.
Speaker 2: The months bargain. And you're like, yeah, well, too bad.
Speaker 2: Shouldn't playless Get this card.
Speaker 1: This card, like many of the cards on the band
Speaker 1: list and the Game Changers list, does change the game. Yep,
Speaker 1: and so much so. This card changes the game so
Speaker 1: much that it changes the meta game. It changes what
Speaker 1: people do about chipens and extra damage and those little
Speaker 1: things that that you think don't matter. And sometimes people say, oh,
Speaker 1: that's just one life doesn't matter. Well, when you play
Speaker 1: Yoagamat's Bargain, there's a meta game that actually revolves about that,
Speaker 1: and it matters. And I want I want to play
Speaker 1: magic that matters. I want to I want to do that,
Speaker 1: and this card lets me do that.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: I think that that's cool. I like that. That's where
Speaker 1: I want to end. I don't think that this is
Speaker 1: a bad place to end on. No, I think it's
Speaker 1: a I think it's a really interesting discussion as to
Speaker 1: is this card really The answer is yes, it really is.
Speaker 1: That good. Yes the answers, Yes, I have one, Yes
Speaker 1: I want to play it. Yes it's burning a hole.
Speaker 1: Yes I wish I had a foil one. I don't.
Speaker 2: I have a foil one, but I do have one too.
Speaker 2: I have one also, but I've never really wanted to
Speaker 2: play it, if I'm honest.
Speaker 1: And and maybe maybe that's it. Maybe I don't want
Speaker 1: it on a game changer's list because the deck I
Speaker 1: put it in doesn't have any game changers, and then
Speaker 1: my deck would immediately be a three if I'm holding
Speaker 1: myself to task on the bracket matchmaking system, and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't play it anyways. Right, So ultimately, when you're downgrading,
Speaker 1: unless we're following the bracket matchmaking systems game changers list
Speaker 1: to a t, not a whole ton of this is
Speaker 1: gonna matter. But I do want to see this card unbanned.
Speaker 2: I think it would be cool too. I would just
Speaker 2: to see to see, and to.
Speaker 1: That end, this is my final thought of the day.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, for like just for like three months, for
Speaker 1: one quarter, unbanned everything. Oh my god, fuck yeah, let's
Speaker 1: go unbanned it all, unbanned the world, unbanned. I'm ready.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you one question, Ryan, Sure, I've
Speaker 2: been waiting to ask this question.
Speaker 1: Hey, how are we doing for time? That producer Gary?
Speaker 1: All right, here it is. This is it.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get to some comments on the pre show
Speaker 2: next week because we ran out of time. Gun to
Speaker 2: your head. Oh yeah, gun to both sides of your head.
Speaker 1: Gun to your head means skip your dress step. I'm listening.
Speaker 2: You can't pick a card president on the current band list,
Speaker 2: but you have to ban one card for personal reasons.
Speaker 2: What card is it?
Speaker 1: Brash daunter fucking gottam gotam.
Speaker 2: You got me so good? Fuck man? That is it?
Speaker 2: You want to ban the most powerful, most handsomest, most
Speaker 2: versatile card in the whole game. It makes sense. Well,
Speaker 2: I was demoralizing very You know what's not demoralizing saving
Speaker 2: money on magic cards. And that's what you can do
Speaker 2: when you use CEO holiday at Fusion Gaming online dot com.
Speaker 2: Very good, the business daddies of our show, or when
Speaker 2: you go and buy delightful beer from Pylo Bones Brewing
Speaker 2: col They are the second coolest thing to come out
Speaker 2: of Regina. I didn't you hit me so hard? I
Speaker 2: forgot what card I was gonna ban and I had
Speaker 2: a really good one. Well think of it for a minute.
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Speaker 1: Our th
Speaker 2: Im not taking at