WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Hey, this is Chris attacking your leadership on today's discussion

2
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:05.519
<v Speaker 1>on employee engagement. I want to talk about a quote

3
00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:07.679
<v Speaker 1>that I heard on a podcast that I thought was

4
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:09.919
<v Speaker 1>really profound. I've been thinking about it a lot for

5
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:14.359
<v Speaker 1>the last few days and how it impacts how it

6
00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:16.839
<v Speaker 1>has impacted my own engagement in jobs that I've had

7
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.320
<v Speaker 1>over the years, and how it will continue to impact

8
00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:25.039
<v Speaker 1>employee engagement across industries. The quote was, we intend to

9
00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.839
<v Speaker 1>measure what we care about, but end up caring about

10
00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.760
<v Speaker 1>what we can measure. And it was like this like

11
00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:33.079
<v Speaker 1>kind of like brain like you know, the meme of

12
00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:35.640
<v Speaker 1>the guy with the exploding head, you know that it

13
00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:38.679
<v Speaker 1>was one of those things when I when I heard it,

14
00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:41.679
<v Speaker 1>It's something that I think that on some level I've

15
00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:45.560
<v Speaker 1>thought about and I've always known, but I've never heard

16
00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:49.799
<v Speaker 1>it said so succinctly and accurately in this kind of

17
00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:54.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, this kind of back and forth or kind

18
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.320
<v Speaker 1>of a mishmash of words that kind of puts itself

19
00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:00.439
<v Speaker 1>on its own head like that. And I think about

20
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.520
<v Speaker 1>the times when I've been asked to do things in

21
00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:08.159
<v Speaker 1>my career that seem to fly in the face of

22
00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:13.239
<v Speaker 1>whatever the North star experience. Goals are of either the

23
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:15.879
<v Speaker 1>organization or my team or or whatever it is. And

24
00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm asked to do things while being sold a bill

25
00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:21.640
<v Speaker 1>of goods that this is in spirit of that, And

26
00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.959
<v Speaker 1>in my mind, I'm thinking, not only is it not

27
00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.599
<v Speaker 1>in spirit of it, it goes it's exactly the opposite

28
00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:30.680
<v Speaker 1>of that. And if I think about those instances, it

29
00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:35.760
<v Speaker 1>comes down to trying to care about what is measurable,

30
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:40.519
<v Speaker 1>because sometimes measuring what we care about is really hard

31
00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:40.840
<v Speaker 1>to do.

32
00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's on the surface it seems so easy,

33
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.840
<v Speaker 2>but if you get to the core of what are

34
00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:52.840
<v Speaker 2>you actually talking about in measuring what you care about?

35
00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.799
<v Speaker 2>To your point, it requires a lot more nuance. It

36
00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:05.840
<v Speaker 2>requires a lot more kind of I would say intuition, uh, observation,

37
00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of things to understand, like are we

38
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:12.039
<v Speaker 2>are we doing what we say that we're doing? Are

39
00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:13.840
<v Speaker 2>we are we impacting the way that we say we

40
00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.840
<v Speaker 2>want to impact? And yes, like the ultimate measurement of

41
00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.120
<v Speaker 2>whether or not as an organization or as a company

42
00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.360
<v Speaker 2>you are down the right path is that people vote

43
00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.719
<v Speaker 2>with their dollars and they spend their money. So like

44
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:30.759
<v Speaker 2>you can look at an outcome like revenue or growth

45
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.400
<v Speaker 2>or whatever and say, okay, well, clearly we're doing something

46
00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.479
<v Speaker 2>right here because people are wanting to buy our products

47
00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:40.639
<v Speaker 2>or our services. But many times within that, there's an

48
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:42.759
<v Speaker 2>impact that you want to have. There's a there's a

49
00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.039
<v Speaker 2>use case that's out, there's a lot of things that

50
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.120
<v Speaker 2>matter to you. And especially as you've now had some

51
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:52.319
<v Speaker 2>success from a from a from a sales standpoint or

52
00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.039
<v Speaker 2>dollar standpoint, you're now kind of tuning into how can

53
00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.360
<v Speaker 2>we refine what we do and how can we make

54
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:02.039
<v Speaker 2>sure that what we want to add or adjust or

55
00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:06.960
<v Speaker 2>or build is going to be you know, taken the

56
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.400
<v Speaker 2>right way or accepted in the right way. You're going

57
00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:11.840
<v Speaker 2>to have the You're going to have a lot more

58
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.479
<v Speaker 2>higher level to focus on, you know, some of the

59
00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.960
<v Speaker 2>ways in which you want to measure things that you

60
00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.080
<v Speaker 2>care about. And I think that it's something that, again,

61
00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:24.840
<v Speaker 2>on the surface, it seems simple, but it's very very deep,

62
00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:28.080
<v Speaker 2>and it's very hard in many cases to be able

63
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.840
<v Speaker 2>to actually with only data, be able to figure out

64
00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:34.680
<v Speaker 2>whether or not what you're trying to do is having

65
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:35.639
<v Speaker 2>the impact you want to have.

66
00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Right right, So I remember a YouTube clip that I saw, Oh,

67
00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:41.639
<v Speaker 1>probably it could be ten or fifteen years ago. Now,

68
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.080
<v Speaker 1>it was a YouTube clip that showed a police officer

69
00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:50.919
<v Speaker 1>telling these two young kids that they couldn't have their

70
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.639
<v Speaker 1>lemonade stand on the corner and actually taking it down

71
00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:59.400
<v Speaker 1>with them and issuing a fine to the parents for

72
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:04.919
<v Speaker 1>having the lemonade stand there to begin with. And and technically,

73
00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.879
<v Speaker 1>is there a law in the on the books for

74
00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.039
<v Speaker 1>wherever that location is that says that you can't sell

75
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.639
<v Speaker 1>food without a license to sell food or whatever like?

76
00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.600
<v Speaker 1>There's there are things in place to make sure that

77
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the public is safe and healthy and that you can

78
00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:22.439
<v Speaker 1>you know that you're audited with for the Health inspector

79
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.279
<v Speaker 1>all those things. Yeah, of course there is. But but

80
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:30.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm I promise you the person who who implemented those laws,

81
00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.639
<v Speaker 1>they weren't thinking we want cops to go stop nine

82
00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:35.839
<v Speaker 1>year olds from selling lemonade on the corner, right, That's

83
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.240
<v Speaker 1>not what they were thinking. But that's what ends up happening.

84
00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.199
<v Speaker 1>And so this to me, this is a really similar

85
00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:44.199
<v Speaker 1>thing here. So the the we intend to measure what

86
00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.519
<v Speaker 1>we care about that is the strategy, that's the strategy

87
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.040
<v Speaker 1>put in place by someone or a group of people somewhere.

88
00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.519
<v Speaker 1>The strategy is what we care about is the safety

89
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:57.399
<v Speaker 1>and health of our public to make sure they're not

90
00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:00.959
<v Speaker 1>getting food poisoning or illness with they go out to

91
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.000
<v Speaker 1>eat somewhere. That's what we care about. That's a that's

92
00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:06.240
<v Speaker 1>a noble goal. What we measure is the amount of

93
00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.199
<v Speaker 1>businesses that are operating without a license, right, and that's

94
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.079
<v Speaker 1>what's measurable. So that so we end up caring about

95
00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:14.160
<v Speaker 1>that instead, and then you have nine year olds being

96
00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:17.160
<v Speaker 1>fined for selling lemonade. This is the same thing. There

97
00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:20.079
<v Speaker 1>are a lot of organizations out there who put out

98
00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:23.399
<v Speaker 1>a good strategy on its surface, this is what we

99
00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:26.680
<v Speaker 1>care about, go at it, you know, make this happen.

100
00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.920
<v Speaker 1>And then you have individual leaders who either a have

101
00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.319
<v Speaker 1>a really difficult time interpreting that into something that is measurable,

102
00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.600
<v Speaker 1>or b they are they go the expedient route, or

103
00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:41.439
<v Speaker 1>they're they're they're they're lazy, and they don't want to

104
00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.639
<v Speaker 1>put the effort into actually measuring the things that are

105
00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:48.199
<v Speaker 1>cared about because it takes time and effort and and

106
00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.160
<v Speaker 1>watching your people, you know, visually, and supposed to just

107
00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:54.439
<v Speaker 1>looking at an Excel spreadsheet. Like all these things happen

108
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.160
<v Speaker 1>in the middle that change it from a being able

109
00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.600
<v Speaker 1>to measure what you care about to caring about what

110
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.360
<v Speaker 1>you measure, And there are things that as a leader,

111
00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:07.399
<v Speaker 1>when you do this, it really hinders employee engagement because

112
00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:10.040
<v Speaker 1>your employees see through it. They see what's going on,

113
00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:12.399
<v Speaker 1>even if you don't in the moment or you think

114
00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:14.319
<v Speaker 1>that they don't. So what I want to go through

115
00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:15.839
<v Speaker 1>is some things that you can do as a leader

116
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.800
<v Speaker 1>to make sure this is less likely to happen, and

117
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:19.519
<v Speaker 1>that the things that you're doing are in spirit of

118
00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:23.680
<v Speaker 1>whatever that broader strategy is where you're actually measuring what

119
00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.600
<v Speaker 1>you care about. But first, let's get up for one

120
00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.959
<v Speaker 1>of our sponsors. All right, If you're a leader of

121
00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.240
<v Speaker 1>people and you're trying to lower the likelihood of you know,

122
00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:36.160
<v Speaker 1>inadvertently switching from measuring what you care about to caring

123
00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:39.160
<v Speaker 1>about what you can measure, then the first thing is

124
00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.279
<v Speaker 1>is to make sure that you fully understand what the

125
00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.319
<v Speaker 1>strategy is and the ways that it should be measured.

126
00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.879
<v Speaker 1>The person who's telling you the strategy, whoever your boss

127
00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.399
<v Speaker 1>or your boss's boss is, whoever implemented that strategy. There

128
00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.360
<v Speaker 1>are ways that they believe this can be measured. Find

129
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.480
<v Speaker 1>out what those are. Find out what they believe those

130
00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.600
<v Speaker 1>ways are of measuring it, it is very very likely

131
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.839
<v Speaker 1>those ways of measuring it are accurate. They are ways

132
00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:07.839
<v Speaker 1>of figuring out of measuring what you care about how

133
00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:11.160
<v Speaker 1>it gets interpreted is where it can become the expedient

134
00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.240
<v Speaker 1>or easy way out, where you can just look at

135
00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.199
<v Speaker 1>a scorecard somewhere and caring about what you can measure.

136
00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.439
<v Speaker 1>So find out from the source what the correct ways

137
00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:23.399
<v Speaker 1>are of measuring whether or not you're being good at

138
00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the thing that is being presented to you or the

139
00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:28.240
<v Speaker 1>strategy that is being presented to you. If no one

140
00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.160
<v Speaker 1>is able to offer that to you, then it might

141
00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.120
<v Speaker 1>not be a well thought out strategy. But if it

142
00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:34.199
<v Speaker 1>is a well thought out strategy, there will be ways

143
00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.120
<v Speaker 1>that they will say and the ways that they will

144
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.279
<v Speaker 1>tell you will likely be ways that require more effort

145
00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.079
<v Speaker 1>and more work than just opening up an email and

146
00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.360
<v Speaker 1>looking at an Excel spreadsheet to see what the numbers

147
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.000
<v Speaker 1>look like. The numbers are great for validating, but they're

148
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.759
<v Speaker 1>not you have to be careful on the causal relationship

149
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.920
<v Speaker 1>between one and the other, because they're not great at

150
00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.199
<v Speaker 1>looking at an individual's performance on a very short period

151
00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.519
<v Speaker 1>of time. And so if you're looking at making your

152
00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:04.519
<v Speaker 1>employees better at doing something. A scorecard is the worst

153
00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.600
<v Speaker 1>way that you can do to go about doing that

154
00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.199
<v Speaker 1>on a short period of time. Actually watching them do

155
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.639
<v Speaker 1>their job might be the only way to get this done,

156
00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.120
<v Speaker 1>and that it takes more time and more effort and

157
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.720
<v Speaker 1>it's more difficult, but it's necessary if you sign up

158
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:17.319
<v Speaker 1>to be their leader.

159
00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's it's important because I think that

160
00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.800
<v Speaker 2>there's always there's always a measurement of how people get

161
00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.920
<v Speaker 2>work done. And it's very easy sometimes from a scale

162
00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.720
<v Speaker 2>standpoint to look at and say, okay, well, here's how

163
00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:34.840
<v Speaker 2>we measure efficiency, here's how we measure productivity, here's how

164
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:38.559
<v Speaker 2>we measure whatever we're measuring. And we have an average.

165
00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.320
<v Speaker 2>So if we just we don't tell anybody about it,

166
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.200
<v Speaker 2>we just measure it. Here's the average. Now we can say, well,

167
00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.759
<v Speaker 2>who's above the average, who's below the average. We can

168
00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.440
<v Speaker 2>make all these assumptions that then we have these top performers,

169
00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:52.559
<v Speaker 2>we have these low performers. What ends up happening is

170
00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.919
<v Speaker 2>that as you check in on the nuance, you start

171
00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:00.399
<v Speaker 2>to realize that maybe some of the top performers aren't

172
00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:02.320
<v Speaker 2>doing it the way that you want them. To do it,

173
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:08.039
<v Speaker 2>maybe they found ways to appear more productive or more efficient,

174
00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.960
<v Speaker 2>or yes, they're getting the work done, but it's not

175
00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:13.320
<v Speaker 2>the quality that you want. And then on the flip side,

176
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:16.559
<v Speaker 2>you've got those that maybe show that they're less productive

177
00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:19.679
<v Speaker 2>or less efficient, but they're actually getting a quality of

178
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.919
<v Speaker 2>work done at a much higher rate. There's more satisfaction

179
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:26.000
<v Speaker 2>from what they deliver, Like there's a lot of nuance

180
00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.879
<v Speaker 2>in the space. So it's both, like they will always say,

181
00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.440
<v Speaker 2>like it's the art and the science of utilizing both.

182
00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.919
<v Speaker 2>But to your point, where a lot of leaders fall

183
00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:40.159
<v Speaker 2>into this trap is when it becomes about you're caring.

184
00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.639
<v Speaker 2>You're caring for what you measure way too much, Like

185
00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:51.159
<v Speaker 2>it's becoming about the measurement and not about the behaviors,

186
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.159
<v Speaker 2>the observations, the approach, like all these types of things,

187
00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:59.039
<v Speaker 2>Like you're not spending time understanding how they are getting

188
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.399
<v Speaker 2>the measurement. You're just simply looking at the measurement and

189
00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:04.759
<v Speaker 2>then saying like up as good, down as bad, or

190
00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:08.000
<v Speaker 2>vice versa. And so long as we're moving in that direction,

191
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm fine, and I'm going to assume that these things

192
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.000
<v Speaker 2>are getting better versus actually spending the time to make

193
00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:20.200
<v Speaker 2>sure that I am you know that I am measuring

194
00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:23.039
<v Speaker 2>what I measuring, like what I care about, which is like,

195
00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:27.480
<v Speaker 2>are my people getting better? Do they understand the larger vision?

196
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Are there?

197
00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:28.799
<v Speaker 1>Are they?

198
00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Are they creating and being productive in ways that have longevity,

199
00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:34.960
<v Speaker 2>not to your point, like you know, kind of like

200
00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:38.120
<v Speaker 2>the in the short term. Are they Are they understanding

201
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.360
<v Speaker 2>of the importance of this work And even if it's harder,

202
00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:43.799
<v Speaker 2>they're they're taking the route that they know is the

203
00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:45.480
<v Speaker 2>right route to take to get the work done at

204
00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:46.799
<v Speaker 2>the level that we want to get it done. So

205
00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.200
<v Speaker 2>it requires a lot more time and effort and intention

206
00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:55.399
<v Speaker 2>to validate that. In fact, what you care about is

207
00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:59.360
<v Speaker 2>being cared for. And then the measurement aspect is a

208
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.399
<v Speaker 2>piece of this, and it's a help it's a helpful

209
00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.399
<v Speaker 2>piece of this, but it's not the only piece of this.

210
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like that a lot. I think you said

211
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.120
<v Speaker 1>something at the beginning there that you said very quickly,

212
00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:12.200
<v Speaker 1>but I I want to really stress this because I

213
00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.279
<v Speaker 1>think it is I think it happens far too often,

214
00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:19.399
<v Speaker 1>and it happens in a lot of places. This idea

215
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:23.679
<v Speaker 1>that that you if you if you attempt to validate

216
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.200
<v Speaker 1>the scorecard or whatever it is. By watching the behavior,

217
00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:30.120
<v Speaker 1>by looking at what the employees are actually doing, then

218
00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:32.679
<v Speaker 1>you might see that some of your top performers aren't

219
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.320
<v Speaker 1>doing it in the way that they should be doing it.

220
00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:36.600
<v Speaker 1>They found a way to either gain the system or

221
00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.120
<v Speaker 1>to you know, to have the numbers look good on

222
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.240
<v Speaker 1>paper right now. But it's at the expense of whatever

223
00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the client or customer experience is in the long term

224
00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.799
<v Speaker 1>that you'll you'll find that happening. And I think in

225
00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:53.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of companies, the the the

226
00:11:53.399 --> 00:12:00.279
<v Speaker 1>leadership doesn't they intentionally avoid validating those things because because

227
00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:04.440
<v Speaker 1>they almost subconsciously are afraid of what they're going to find.

228
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.879
<v Speaker 1>They don't want to validate the behaviors of the top

229
00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.000
<v Speaker 1>performers only to find out that the top performers aren't

230
00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:15.279
<v Speaker 1>doing it correctly, because then they have to do something

231
00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.000
<v Speaker 1>about it. Otherwise they are complicit in it. They need

232
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.039
<v Speaker 1>they'll they kind of it's a different thing now then

233
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.200
<v Speaker 1>versus just hey, this is a person's doing great, and

234
00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.639
<v Speaker 1>I have plausible deniability. But if you don't do this,

235
00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:31.799
<v Speaker 1>then it could go no other way that the employees

236
00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that are looking at these results of the person that's

237
00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.480
<v Speaker 1>being hoisted up on the pedestal and saying look at

238
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.879
<v Speaker 1>this person, look how great they are, or these people,

239
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.519
<v Speaker 1>this is the benchmark, this is the goal to hit,

240
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.200
<v Speaker 1>this is the expectation, this is what's possible. Those kind

241
00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of things. The people who are being expected to rise

242
00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.399
<v Speaker 1>to that level, if they are committed to doing it

243
00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>in the right way, then they won't be able to

244
00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:59.200
<v Speaker 1>hit it because they won't compromise their own values or

245
00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.399
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is in order to get there, and they

246
00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.039
<v Speaker 1>will either burn out and leave thinking this is not

247
00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the right job for them, or they will eventually fall

248
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the same way and they will compromise their values and

249
00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>do things the wrong way to get to that number,

250
00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.039
<v Speaker 1>because that's what the expectation is, and they don't want

251
00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>to lose their job or or be performance managed because

252
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:19.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. And so I think a lot of leaders

253
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.440
<v Speaker 1>will they don't want to know. They want to put

254
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.960
<v Speaker 1>their head in the sand, and they accept the great

255
00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.919
<v Speaker 1>numbers and they go, yay, this is amazing. But the

256
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:29.440
<v Speaker 1>quicker that you can do it, and the more often

257
00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:32.360
<v Speaker 1>you can validate the behaviors, the more likely you are

258
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.360
<v Speaker 1>to have a good representation or a good picture of

259
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.240
<v Speaker 1>what is possible. What does good look like? Because the

260
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:42.200
<v Speaker 1>people who are doing the behaviors the best consistently, whatever

261
00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.639
<v Speaker 1>their results are, are likely what is possible. The person

262
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>who's at the top, they might be doing everything great

263
00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and that's fine, but they might not be, and so

264
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.519
<v Speaker 1>figure that out so that you are not holding your

265
00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:57.120
<v Speaker 1>people to a standard that starts with the result you're

266
00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.720
<v Speaker 1>looking for and works backward, but rather it starts with

267
00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.360
<v Speaker 1>the behavi you're looking for and uses the result to

268
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.759
<v Speaker 1>validate it. Thank you all for joining us in this episode.

269
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:06.679
<v Speaker 1>Join us again next Thursday and we'll continue talk about

270
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.759
<v Speaker 1>employe engagement. You have a great day.