WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.759 There's James who sounds like he's the shower running behind 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:03.399 him or something. 3 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:07.200 That's for the special subscriber edition that we released later 4 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:08.480 for money. 5 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.400 Make it a few seconds, and I'm gonna go upstairs 6 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:14.679 to my office and plug in and will be good. 7 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:16.160 To go Only Fans studio. 8 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.280 Yeah, I'm sure I didn't catch that one. 9 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:22.760 Well, we were saying it sounded to Sevier in the shower, 10 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:24.359 so I said, you were going to go upstairs to 11 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:25.559 your only fans studio. 12 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:28.679 Well, I am retired. I've got to make money wherever 13 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:29.120 I can. 14 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:33.000 There you go retired, Yeah, not really. 15 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:38.880 Get my dongle, so to speak. Can't do only fans 16 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:44.079 without a dongle. Ask not what your country can do 17 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.719 for you, ask what you can do for your country. 18 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:54.079 Mister gorbach Off, Tear down this wall. It's look to 19 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.320 Say podcast with Charles W. Cook and Stephen Edward and 20 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.759 James Lilacs. Today Alligators bed for Them, Natz to jeens. 21 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:03.960 Oh my, let's let's have ourselves a podcast. 22 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:08.159 Jans are passed on from parents to offspring, often determining 23 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:12.000 traits like her color, personality, and even eye color. 24 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:14.519 My chans are blue. You know. 25 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:19.359 The stakes are best, but alligator is a maglunatician. How 26 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:20.879 to run away. 27 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:21.560 From an alligator? 28 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:23.400 Okay, if they escaped prison. 29 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.239 How to run away? Don't run in a straight. 30 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.079 Line, run like this and you know what, Your chances 31 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:31.719 go off about one percent. Welcome everybody, This is the 32 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:35.000 Ricochet Podcast number seven hundred and fifty one. Join us 33 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.480 at ricochet dot com, where you two can prepare yourself 34 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:39.159 for the next seven hundred and forty nine until we 35 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.840 hit fifteen hundred for some reason, then there will be fireworks, 36 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.280 I guess. But anyway, you should go to ricochet dot 37 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.079 com and sign up. You can read the front page 38 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:50.560 and it's great. It's awesome. You can listen to the podcast, 39 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:53.040 but there's a member feed where all sorts of interesting 40 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.760 things happen. It's the place you've been looking for on 41 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:58.480 the internet all your many many years. James LILYX from 42 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.959 Minneapolis at the moment, and I joined by Charles C. W. 43 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.879 Cook in Florida and Steven Hayward, who I presume is 44 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.239 in his I was gonna say Italia or Amatour or 45 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:09.599 wherever you have to be at California. Gentlemen, how are 46 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:14.039 you making it through? Well? Well, good, what what's are 47 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.560 you you? You sound a little stressed, as though you 48 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:21.280 are still processing the horrible message of the Sydney Sweeney commercial. 49 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.879 I didn't regard it as a horrible message, and just 50 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.759 to make sure James that it wasn't a horrible message, 51 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.599 I watched it one hundred and six times. 52 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:33.080 I did too. I was looking for a little nuances year. 53 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:34.680 What I love is the fact that that if this 54 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.400 this is an this is an opportunity in opening for 55 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.159 Hugo Boss. I thought to come out with their own 56 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:42.560 line jeans and have somebody standing there in a long 57 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.520 black leather jacket saying when you put on your jeans 58 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:48.280 in the morning, do you find it difficult? Is it 59 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.000 my struggle to put them on? 60 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:50.879 Do you want? 61 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.919 Do you want the pansta more evens around in the back? 62 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:56.520 I mean if they did that and somebody said, you know, 63 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:58.520 that's kind of Nazi, you'd say, you know, you said 64 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:02.039 that about this, You said that about they have no 65 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:05.280 room left for Nazi anymore, Sidney Sweeney, either inn thing 66 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:08.080 talking make you a stupid wordplay about jeans is Nazi? Yes, 67 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:10.000 but go ahead, go ahead, if that is the hill 68 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.159 on which you wish to die, we will be there 69 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.240 with the grave figures, the shroud and the tombstone. Elsewhere 70 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.159 in the world we have a tariff's deal, or do 71 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.840 we not? Apparently something with you, something with Japan. From 72 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:25.439 what I understand, Chuck Schumer got up on the floor 73 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.439 of the Senate, the well of the Senate, and said, no, 74 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:31.719 it's all about none of it is real. So what 75 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.560 is going on? What happened? I hear everything from man, 76 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.039 he took them to the cleaners to absolutely nothing's going 77 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.879 to happen whatsoever. 78 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:41.560 Well, who can say? I mean, it's still in my 79 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:45.280 mind and mystery of whether Trump really believes in tariffs, 80 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:47.319 and you know, he's been saying for years tariff is 81 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.840 a beautiful word. I love tariffs. Or whether this is 82 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.360 and or it could be both. The second possibility is 83 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:59.080 this is all his real estate. Negotiating practices of the 84 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:03.039 last forty years apply to international trade. And you know, 85 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.039 I have some sympathy with the view that Trump has 86 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:09.039 articulated since the eighties that we've been Patsy's on trade. 87 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.360 You know, we've been going for years to these international 88 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:15.080 negotiations and saying, pretty please, could you lower your tariffs 89 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.079 and occasionally making a little bit of progress or getting 90 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.759 some concessions, and I think Trump's decided to blow the 91 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.959 whole thing up because he's been saying that, as we say, 92 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.240 as we know, since the early eighties. In any case, 93 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.360 I think the really big question is whether his legal 94 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.800 authority to do all this improvising is going to survive 95 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:36.560 the DC's Circuit Court of Appeals Supreme Court, because it 96 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:40.800 sounds like the argument before the court this week went 97 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:42.759 very poorly from all the news accounts I read. 98 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.439 Well, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for 99 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:51.360 tariffs or the means by which they've been implemented. Those 100 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.040 are two separate things. Of Course, I didn't think we 101 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:59.759 need more protectionism. We're a rich country. We do that 102 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.160 than everyone else. I agree some other countries can often 103 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.279 be silly, but it's usually to our advantage. But if 104 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:06.839 we're going to have tariffs, so if there's a good 105 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.279 reason for it, and there is, in a military context, 106 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:14.120 for example, often a strong argument for making sure that 107 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:19.480 we keep control of supplies that are necessary to our survival, 108 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:26.480 we certainly should not be doing it via presidential edict. Now, Steve, 109 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.240 you said you didn't know whether or not this was 110 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:34.480 true whether Chuck Schumann was right. And that's because we 111 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:37.079 don't have a debate in Congress that we should have 112 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:41.040 over what is in the same position in the Constitution 113 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.560 as taxes. But the whole thing is being made up 114 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.439 by Donald Trump on the fly. And even if you 115 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.920 love tariffs, which is fine, I don't, but that's fine, 116 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:55.720 that's a problem because it creates instability, it creates uncertainty. 117 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.240 It means that even people who follow politics aren't quite 118 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:03.000 sure what is happening. It's also very odd because not 119 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.439 only has Trump introduced these new tariffs, but he has 120 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:09.720 walked away from a whole bunch of trade deals that 121 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:17.439 were negotiated through Congress. These have superseded congressional law, and 122 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:20.560 that means that if you in the future are negotiating 123 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.839 with the United States, you're reasonably going to ask the question, well, 124 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.399 is this going to last or is the next president 125 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.439 whoever that is going to just get rid of it 126 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.600 on the fly. And the last thing I would say is, again, 127 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:36.079 if you like tariffs, that's fine, if you want to 128 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:37.199 make the case for them, I know a lot of 129 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.480 smart people do. But the idea that what we are 130 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.360 doing here is the exercise of an emergency power is 131 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:49.839 just ridiculous, don't You don't invoke emergency powers bit by 132 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.120 bit on and off over six months in response to 133 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:56.279 what you claim has been a problem for forty years. 134 00:06:55.959 --> 00:07:00.319 That's nobody's definition of emergency. So I'm I'm not a 135 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.040 tiriff guy. I'm absolutely happy to debate it with people. 136 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.360 It's a normal political question. It's been in there since 137 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:08.959 the founding. But the mechanism here just makes this so difficult. 138 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.199 And by the time that this podcast goes up, even 139 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.439 if it's up in fourteen minutes, it's possible that the 140 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.279 whole thing could have been changed or delayed or revoked, 141 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:20.160 which is bizarre. 142 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.879 So it goes well, here's the counter argument then, And 143 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.279 I don't like terrors either, mostly because I learned way 144 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:30.800 back in the junior high that Smooth Hawley made everything 145 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.040 very bad for a long time. So I mean, that's 146 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.720 the sort of deep historical analysis that I'm dealing with. 147 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.519 A lot of people would say that, okay, we conduct 148 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.759 a trade deal with China, everybody sits down negotiates our 149 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.079 site is probably corrupt because they're probably beholden whatever to 150 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.120 Chinese interests for whatever reason, and even if we do 151 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:49.879 sign something, China is going to break it at every 152 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.160 possible opportunity because they're not good faith players. They steal. 153 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.079 So what's the point then, you know, we can crack 154 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:58.759 these treaties, make better ones with people that we like 155 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:02.199 and promise to do good. But just the very idea 156 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.279 that while we talked to them, we all sat down, 157 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:06.839 we negotiated, we had a treaty, doesn't necessarily mean it's 158 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.959 something that accrues to America's interest would be the other argument. 159 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:12.800 I'm just saying that I kind of understand that as well, 160 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:19.199 simplistic as it may be. But yeah, so it's I'm 161 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:23.639 trying to think it was a big hurrah that China 162 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.360 was losing some of its manufacturing to India. Look, Apple's 163 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:30.560 moving some of their production from China to India. That's great. 164 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:33.879 And then a month later twenty five percent tariff on 165 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.799 things coming from India. That seems to be a little 166 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:40.799 counterproductive as well. But to the point that you made 167 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.120 before about strategic tariffs, about making sure that we actually 168 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.360 have the capability to build the things we build, I'm 169 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:49.639 not sure that a lot of people would say, you know, 170 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.559 I may end up paying more for athletes foot cream 171 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:58.120 and antibiotic. But it's going to be coming from America, 172 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.480 and I'm going to be reasonably sure that it is 173 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:03.600 as it's a genuine product. I mean, I bought some 174 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.200 antibiotic from on Amazon that came from China. I'm convinced 175 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.000 it's just vasoline. I have no idea. I have no 176 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:14.399 trust in any of the products whatsoever. Again, so that's 177 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:15.519 that's that's well true. 178 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:19.759 But you wouldn't mind if the antibiotic could come from Germany. No, 179 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:21.799 Sidney Sweeney's face on it, No, die. 180 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:26.759 No, because I would trust presistent, precision German engineering and 181 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:28.759 their sense of honor and duty in the rest of 182 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.200 it to put out a quality antibiotic. But to China, 183 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.000 I just know it's probably got you know, it's got 184 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:37.000 hand of virus eggs in it from from all. 185 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:42.240 I just think that that is a totally fair objection. 186 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:44.720 But my preference would be if we don't think that 187 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.600 other countries are making products that are what they say 188 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:48.159 they are, that. 189 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:51.159 We should ban them. It should put tariffs on them. 190 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:51.440 Right. 191 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.240 This is a strange response. 192 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.679 To say, well, I don't think this antibiotic cream is 193 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:58.120 actually antibiotic cream. 194 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.919 I think it is ground up beetle. 195 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.960 But if you pay an extra fifteen percent to the 196 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:04.080 US government, you can. 197 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.360 Have a You can have something made in the United 198 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.159 States under the United States inspection. Is all I'm saying. 199 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.000 I mean, I would rather if I had my Druthers. 200 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:14.639 I just had to buy an air frier because the 201 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.080 old one with the Italian name, which was made in China, 202 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.919 fell apart. I had to buy another one. The choice 203 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:23.240 of domestic manufacturers is bad. Now you can say it's 204 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.960 great that we don't as a country have to make 205 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.720 air friers anymore. It's assembly line work. It's miserable. It's 206 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.679 the meaning, it's the rest of it. I don't agree. 207 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.080 I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be 208 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.399 able to buy an air fryer that came out of Akron, Ohio, 209 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:40.240 that was made by guys who had a pretty good 210 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.639 wage and a pretty good life. While that is I 211 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.440 understand the old model before computers in the Internet and 212 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.240 the information society and all that stuff broke everything, I 213 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.919 don't think it's something that is we should just completely 214 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:57.440 abandon attempting to duplicate or revive when plausible, when feasible. 215 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:59.919 Would I spend ten dollars more in one if it 216 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.840 come from America, you damn right it would have. 217 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.039 Well, part of the problem is not fake product necessarily 218 00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:09.440 ground up beetles or whatever. It's actual real products or 219 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.279 that are counterfeit. But there's two kinds of this. I 220 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.960 used to know someone who fifteen years ago was tracing 221 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.799 the problem of counterfeit pharmaceuticals from overseas, and what he 222 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.480 discovered was, in some cases, like in Mexico, for example, 223 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.480 you'd have a plant that was contracted out by one 224 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.799 of our pharmaceutical manufacturers, and the day shift to make 225 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.960 whatever they were making would close down, and then an 226 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.080 hour later a night shift would open off the books, 227 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.320 producing legitimate product, but under a generic label, you know, 228 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:43.320 to sort of get around our patents and so forth. 229 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.080 So there's that problem. And then the other problem with China, 230 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:48.279 which now goes back at least twenty years or more. 231 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.440 As I've talked a couple of patent lawyers about this, 232 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:54.519 and this has been in the press, their copies of 233 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:59.200 things like Hermes handbags or Gucci handbags are so good 234 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:04.240 that the manufacturers can't tell without practically using electron microscope. 235 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:06.799 I think they've now included some tracers and authentic bags, 236 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:09.559 and they can find it. But to the even the 237 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.399 trained eye, you can't tell there're so the knockoffs are 238 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.639 so good, and that's just straight out piracy, and that's 239 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.279 a big problem. I don't know if tarif is a 240 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.159 way to fix that. I don't think so. But the 241 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.600 spectrum of the problem is even worse than you think. 242 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:25.840 I think my. 243 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:31.519 Criticism of some of these arguments it's not that I 244 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:38.519 disagree with them, but that whenever Trump does this, everyone 245 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.720 who favors what he's doing or at is just sympathetic 246 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.519 to it. Talks about China, and I agree with the 247 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.080 criticisms of China. I had Tom Cotton on my podcast 248 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.039 a few months ago. I read a great book about China, 249 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:55.519 really eye opening, an alarming book about China. But Trump 250 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.519 didn't just put tariffs on China. I mean, if Trump 251 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.679 could come out and said I'm dealing with the China 252 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:04.360 problem three months ago, I'd probably have said, fine. But 253 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:07.679 we've got tariffs now on India and Indonesia and Vietnam, 254 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.200 which are countries that we've tried to move manufacturing to 255 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.720 to get out of China. And we've also got tariffs 256 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.639 on France and Italy and Germany and Britain, in Brazil 257 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:20.519 and Canada. And this is the bit that I just 258 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:25.279 find astonishing is that in so far as these tariffs 259 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:28.279 make a great deal of sense, it is with countries 260 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:32.639 like China communist dictatorships that steal our stuff, make subpar products, 261 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:36.440 flood our market. I think sometimes flooding the market is 262 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:39.919 fine because then it gives us the chance to buy 263 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.360 cheap things. But sometimes it's not because the aim is 264 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.799 to destroy our industry. They want to make sure that 265 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:48.240 our factory is closed. But Germany doesn't do that. Britain 266 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.799 don't do it, you know, Brazil doesn't do that. India 267 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.200 doesn't do that. So this is the sort of what's that? 268 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:00.080 What's that weapon a blunderbus. The blunderbus attitude is a 269 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:00.840 longing to me. 270 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.080 Well, I think then we all know where we are 271 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.039 on this and need not to be labor it anymore. 272 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.759 Charles mentioned the UK, and I wanted to get to that. 273 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:13.000 There's a lot of attention focused right now in the 274 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:17.559 scepter dial probably outside given it's importance in the rest 275 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.120 of it, but the place from which freedom supposedly one 276 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.679 of the well springs of is going through this shuddering 277 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.279 contraction of what appears to be online rights and access. 278 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.559 Thanks to their Online Safety Act, it made it very 279 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.639 difficult for people to go to sites that have adult content, 280 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:39.200 and by that I mean anything that be interesting to 281 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.240 somebody over the age of eight. I mean movies that 282 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:46.679 are a scene from a description of a scene from 283 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.960 a movie that sounds a little violent. Naturally, everybody who 284 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.000 was opposed to this is being called a pedophile or 285 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.120 a pedophile enabler, which is always great coming from the BBC. 286 00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:03.000 Jimmy who Jimmy, Great coming from them, But it fits 287 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:06.799 in with the two tier policing idea, with the Bobby's 288 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.960 knocking at your door because you wrote something mean and 289 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.399 nasty on Facebook or Twitter. The general idea that anybody 290 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.240 who shows up to protest a whole bunch of guys 291 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.120 who's just landed on a boat being given a mobile 292 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.759 phone and a set of clothes and being stashed off 293 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.159 in the local luxury hotel, that all of these things 294 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:27.000 are now outside of the boundaries of civilized discussion. We 295 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.200 can't have them, and they've got to be something has 296 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.080 to be done about them, and it all seems rather sudden. 297 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:37.639 Maybe so because the Online Safety Act is finally hitting 298 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.480 and the repercussions are being known, and other countries are 299 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.559 looking at it. But it seems as if there's this 300 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:45.679 sort of excel And Charles tell me if I'm wrong, 301 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:52.399 there's an accelerating deliberalization of the UK that comes as 302 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.639 something of a surprise, even for those of us who've 303 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.399 been seeing certain things happen in the last few years. 304 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.559 Well, I think you're absolutely right. I don't know how 305 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.159 surprised I am. When I was at Oxford, I was 306 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.159 there at the time that a fellow student was put 307 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.279 in a jail cell over night for telling a police 308 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:14.360 officer that his horse was gay. Yes, so we've talked 309 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:16.799 about this before, I think so. I'm not sure how 310 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.039 surprising it is. What I find infuriating is exactly the 311 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.320 response that you adam rated, which is, oh, well, I 312 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.600 suppose you're in favor of This reminds me of a 313 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:31.200 law that California passed, which was enjoined by the Ninth Circuit, 314 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:37.600 which said that if you in any way wrote about 315 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.600 or advertised firearms in a way that could be appealing 316 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:44.639 to a minor, he could be fined twenty five thousand dollars. 317 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.840 And the problem with this in practice was immediately high 318 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:54.519 school clay sports teams shut down and magazines were unable 319 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:58.039 to write anything that could be plausibly deemed to be 320 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:02.519 addressed to somebody under a and so on. In other words, 321 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.359 you can't do that. Leave aside the First Amendment questions. 322 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.440 Britain doesn't have one. You can't do things like this 323 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.119 without affecting everybody. And so to turn around when people 324 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.759 complain and say, oh, and I suppose you want small 325 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:20.160 children to watch pornography, then it's just extremely annoying. The 326 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.119 problem is, James, is that while there are people who 327 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.920 are complaining about this, the sort of reaction that you 328 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.440 have instinctively had to this simply does not exist in Britain. 329 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:30.240 They are just. 330 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.359 Much more comfortable with this sort of thing, and it's 331 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:38.799 going to take some really stupid prosecutions to make them 332 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.720 realize that they've got it wrong. Last thing, I'll say, 333 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.640 there was a law that has been amended but not repealed, 334 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.119 called Section five. I think it's Section five of the 335 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:54.440 Public Order Act, and this law was put into place 336 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.960 in the nineteen eighties. I think Margaret Thatcher was on 337 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.359 board with it, she was quite bad on speech sometimes, 338 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:07.640 and it eventually met its demise or diminishment when comedians, 339 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:13.240 most notably Rowan Atkinson, started complaining that it was being 340 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:17.279 used to shut up people who were making jokes, who 341 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:23.440 were being funny about, say Islam or different racial characteristics, 342 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:27.519 or Christianity or atheism. And there was a campaign and 343 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.480 at that point the British got it because they saw 344 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.279 the way that. 345 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:32.400 It was being used. 346 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:38.519 But I do worry that there's no reflexive hostility in 347 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:40.599 the way you would encounter in the United States, so 348 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.599 this sort of thing they have to see it practically fail. 349 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.559 I have talked about this with my friends in England, 350 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:48.559 and I tend to do so more. I'm a little 351 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.880 bit hesitant to say anything in the radio noown next less, 352 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:52.559 the next time I go through I get scanned by 353 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:54.839 the Interpol computer and they say, oh, this fellow, this 354 00:18:54.920 --> 00:19:00.079 fellow said some problematic things. I mean, I I I 355 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.680 hear what you're saying, but I don't think that the 356 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.680 docility that you have described before remains in the same 357 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.240 percentage I think that. I mean, was it a Telegraph 358 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.680 columnist who had to who was brought up by charge 359 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.359 brought up on charges recently for tweeting out something like this. 360 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.079 I think there are there are more and more instances, 361 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.400 and again you may have the Telegraph audience self segregating 362 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:23.759 on that one and not spilling over into the Times audience. 363 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:28.119 But but but the the other portion of it was, 364 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.880 if I'm trying to remember here was the was the 365 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.240 banter laws? Stephen, do you know what the banter laws are? 366 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:35.519 I do not. 367 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:40.480 Okay. Well, in addition to the Online Safety Act and 368 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.759 the two tier policing and the government actually being caught 369 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.319 trying to do something with social media about getting rid 370 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.599 of or deep platforming people who talk about two tier policing, 371 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.359 there was a law that's passed and being called the 372 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.240 banter Law because it criminalizes pub talk essentially. Now that, 373 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.960 of course there's nonsense. There's no one's going to criminal Well, 374 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.599 what it does is it says that the owners of 375 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:07.720 a pub are responsible for maintaining a non threatening, inclusive, 376 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:13.559 friendly work environment. So if it's possible that your server 377 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.319 who's coming over to give you your ail, here's you 378 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.680 making a joke that offends them, than the pub owner 379 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.000 I believe, is responsible for not policing the banter or 380 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.440 making it known that certain things are not to be 381 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:30.319 discussed that and that's met with derision from every quarter, 382 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.240 except of course, those who say, oh, so you want 383 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.799 to sit in the corner of the snug that and 384 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.960 make jokes about Islam. Maybe maybe they do. 385 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.759 Maybe it seems to me that soccer hooligans in the 386 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.160 pub are now Written's best hope for recovery. 387 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.480 Yeah, well, you know, you, me and Julia looking out 388 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.480 the window saying the pearls is you know that the 389 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.000 pearls will be our hope. That's what they thought in 390 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.440 nineteen eighty four as well. I'll tell you what it's 391 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.400 going to take. I've said this before and i'll say 392 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.160 it again. I think that Brexit happened when everybody opened 393 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.079 up their paper and story that the EU was going 394 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:06.039 to impose new green requirements on tea kettles and that 395 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.400 the EU was going to dictate that they boiled a lot, 396 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.759 took a lot longer to boil in order to save 397 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.599 the planet. And I think that's what everybody said. I've 398 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:14.519 had it right up to here. 399 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.079 Yeah, just a very very quick point on this, you know, 400 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.960 exactly right. And the thing that always baffled me about that, 401 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.839