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Speaker 1: There's James who sounds like he's the shower running behind

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him or something.

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Speaker 2: That's for the special subscriber edition that we released later

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for money.

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Speaker 3: Make it a few seconds, and I'm gonna go upstairs

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to my office and plug in and will be good.

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Speaker 4: To go Only Fans studio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure I didn't catch that one.

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Speaker 2: Well, we were saying it sounded to Sevier in the shower,

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so I said, you were going to go upstairs to

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your only fans studio.

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Speaker 3: Well, I am retired. I've got to make money wherever

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I can.

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Speaker 4: There you go retired, Yeah, not really.

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Speaker 3: Get my dongle, so to speak. Can't do only fans

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without a dongle. Ask not what your country can do

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for you, ask what you can do for your country.

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Mister gorbach Off, Tear down this wall. It's look to

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Say podcast with Charles W. Cook and Stephen Edward and

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James Lilacs. Today Alligators bed for Them, Natz to jeens.

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Oh my, let's let's have ourselves a podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jans are passed on from parents to offspring, often determining

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traits like her color, personality, and even eye color.

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Speaker 4: My chans are blue. You know.

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Speaker 3: The stakes are best, but alligator is a maglunatician. How

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to run away.

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Speaker 2: From an alligator?

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Speaker 3: Okay, if they escaped prison.

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Speaker 1: How to run away? Don't run in a straight.

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Speaker 3: Line, run like this and you know what, Your chances

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go off about one percent. Welcome everybody, This is the

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Ricochet Podcast number seven hundred and fifty one. Join us

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at ricochet dot com, where you two can prepare yourself

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for the next seven hundred and forty nine until we

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hit fifteen hundred for some reason, then there will be fireworks,

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I guess. But anyway, you should go to ricochet dot

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com and sign up. You can read the front page

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and it's great. It's awesome. You can listen to the podcast,

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but there's a member feed where all sorts of interesting

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things happen. It's the place you've been looking for on

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the internet all your many many years. James LILYX from

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Minneapolis at the moment, and I joined by Charles C. W.

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Cook in Florida and Steven Hayward, who I presume is

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in his I was gonna say Italia or Amatour or

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wherever you have to be at California. Gentlemen, how are

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you making it through? Well? Well, good, what what's are

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you you? You sound a little stressed, as though you

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are still processing the horrible message of the Sydney Sweeney commercial.

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Speaker 2: I didn't regard it as a horrible message, and just

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to make sure James that it wasn't a horrible message,

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I watched it one hundred and six times.

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Speaker 3: I did too. I was looking for a little nuances year.

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What I love is the fact that that if this

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this is an this is an opportunity in opening for

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Hugo Boss. I thought to come out with their own

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line jeans and have somebody standing there in a long

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black leather jacket saying when you put on your jeans

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in the morning, do you find it difficult? Is it

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my struggle to put them on?

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Speaker 4: Do you want?

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Speaker 3: Do you want the pansta more evens around in the back?

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I mean if they did that and somebody said, you know,

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that's kind of Nazi, you'd say, you know, you said

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that about this, You said that about they have no

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room left for Nazi anymore, Sidney Sweeney, either inn thing

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talking make you a stupid wordplay about jeans is Nazi? Yes,

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but go ahead, go ahead, if that is the hill

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on which you wish to die, we will be there

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with the grave figures, the shroud and the tombstone. Elsewhere

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in the world we have a tariff's deal, or do

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we not? Apparently something with you, something with Japan. From

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what I understand, Chuck Schumer got up on the floor

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of the Senate, the well of the Senate, and said, no,

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it's all about none of it is real. So what

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is going on? What happened? I hear everything from man,

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he took them to the cleaners to absolutely nothing's going

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to happen whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Well, who can say? I mean, it's still in my

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mind and mystery of whether Trump really believes in tariffs,

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and you know, he's been saying for years tariff is

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a beautiful word. I love tariffs. Or whether this is

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and or it could be both. The second possibility is

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this is all his real estate. Negotiating practices of the

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last forty years apply to international trade. And you know,

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I have some sympathy with the view that Trump has

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articulated since the eighties that we've been Patsy's on trade.

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You know, we've been going for years to these international

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negotiations and saying, pretty please, could you lower your tariffs

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and occasionally making a little bit of progress or getting

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some concessions, and I think Trump's decided to blow the

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whole thing up because he's been saying that, as we say,

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as we know, since the early eighties. In any case,

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I think the really big question is whether his legal

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authority to do all this improvising is going to survive

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the DC's Circuit Court of Appeals Supreme Court, because it

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sounds like the argument before the court this week went

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very poorly from all the news accounts I read.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for

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tariffs or the means by which they've been implemented. Those

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are two separate things. Of Course, I didn't think we

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need more protectionism. We're a rich country. We do that

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than everyone else. I agree some other countries can often

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be silly, but it's usually to our advantage. But if

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we're going to have tariffs, so if there's a good

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reason for it, and there is, in a military context,

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for example, often a strong argument for making sure that

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we keep control of supplies that are necessary to our survival,

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we certainly should not be doing it via presidential edict. Now, Steve,

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you said you didn't know whether or not this was

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true whether Chuck Schumann was right. And that's because we

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don't have a debate in Congress that we should have

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over what is in the same position in the Constitution

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as taxes. But the whole thing is being made up

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by Donald Trump on the fly. And even if you

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love tariffs, which is fine, I don't, but that's fine,

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that's a problem because it creates instability, it creates uncertainty.

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It means that even people who follow politics aren't quite

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sure what is happening. It's also very odd because not

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only has Trump introduced these new tariffs, but he has

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walked away from a whole bunch of trade deals that

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were negotiated through Congress. These have superseded congressional law, and

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that means that if you in the future are negotiating

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with the United States, you're reasonably going to ask the question, well,

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is this going to last or is the next president

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whoever that is going to just get rid of it

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on the fly. And the last thing I would say is, again,

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if you like tariffs, that's fine, if you want to

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make the case for them, I know a lot of

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smart people do. But the idea that what we are

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doing here is the exercise of an emergency power is

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just ridiculous, don't You don't invoke emergency powers bit by

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bit on and off over six months in response to

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what you claim has been a problem for forty years.

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That's nobody's definition of emergency. So I'm I'm not a

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tiriff guy. I'm absolutely happy to debate it with people.

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It's a normal political question. It's been in there since

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the founding. But the mechanism here just makes this so difficult.

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And by the time that this podcast goes up, even

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if it's up in fourteen minutes, it's possible that the

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whole thing could have been changed or delayed or revoked,

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which is bizarre.

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Speaker 3: So it goes well, here's the counter argument then, And

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I don't like terrors either, mostly because I learned way

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back in the junior high that Smooth Hawley made everything

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very bad for a long time. So I mean, that's

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the sort of deep historical analysis that I'm dealing with.

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A lot of people would say that, okay, we conduct

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a trade deal with China, everybody sits down negotiates our

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site is probably corrupt because they're probably beholden whatever to

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Chinese interests for whatever reason, and even if we do

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sign something, China is going to break it at every

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possible opportunity because they're not good faith players. They steal.

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So what's the point then, you know, we can crack

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these treaties, make better ones with people that we like

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and promise to do good. But just the very idea

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that while we talked to them, we all sat down,

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we negotiated, we had a treaty, doesn't necessarily mean it's

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something that accrues to America's interest would be the other argument.

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I'm just saying that I kind of understand that as well,

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simplistic as it may be. But yeah, so it's I'm

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trying to think it was a big hurrah that China

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was losing some of its manufacturing to India. Look, Apple's

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moving some of their production from China to India. That's great.

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And then a month later twenty five percent tariff on

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things coming from India. That seems to be a little

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counterproductive as well. But to the point that you made

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before about strategic tariffs, about making sure that we actually

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have the capability to build the things we build, I'm

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not sure that a lot of people would say, you know,

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I may end up paying more for athletes foot cream

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and antibiotic. But it's going to be coming from America,

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and I'm going to be reasonably sure that it is

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as it's a genuine product. I mean, I bought some

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antibiotic from on Amazon that came from China. I'm convinced

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it's just vasoline. I have no idea. I have no

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trust in any of the products whatsoever. Again, so that's

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that's that's well true.

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Speaker 2: But you wouldn't mind if the antibiotic could come from Germany. No,

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Sidney Sweeney's face on it, No, die.

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Speaker 3: No, because I would trust presistent, precision German engineering and

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their sense of honor and duty in the rest of

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it to put out a quality antibiotic. But to China,

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I just know it's probably got you know, it's got

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hand of virus eggs in it from from all.

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Speaker 2: I just think that that is a totally fair objection.

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But my preference would be if we don't think that

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other countries are making products that are what they say

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they are, that.

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Speaker 4: We should ban them. It should put tariffs on them.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: This is a strange response.

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Speaker 2: To say, well, I don't think this antibiotic cream is

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actually antibiotic cream.

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Speaker 4: I think it is ground up beetle.

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Speaker 2: But if you pay an extra fifteen percent to the

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US government, you can.

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Speaker 3: Have a You can have something made in the United

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States under the United States inspection. Is all I'm saying.

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I mean, I would rather if I had my Druthers.

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I just had to buy an air frier because the

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old one with the Italian name, which was made in China,

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fell apart. I had to buy another one. The choice

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of domestic manufacturers is bad. Now you can say it's

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great that we don't as a country have to make

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air friers anymore. It's assembly line work. It's miserable. It's

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the meaning, it's the rest of it. I don't agree.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be

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able to buy an air fryer that came out of Akron, Ohio,

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that was made by guys who had a pretty good

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wage and a pretty good life. While that is I

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understand the old model before computers in the Internet and

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the information society and all that stuff broke everything, I

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don't think it's something that is we should just completely

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abandon attempting to duplicate or revive when plausible, when feasible.

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Would I spend ten dollars more in one if it

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come from America, you damn right it would have.

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Speaker 1: Well, part of the problem is not fake product necessarily

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ground up beetles or whatever. It's actual real products or

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that are counterfeit. But there's two kinds of this. I

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used to know someone who fifteen years ago was tracing

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the problem of counterfeit pharmaceuticals from overseas, and what he

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discovered was, in some cases, like in Mexico, for example,

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you'd have a plant that was contracted out by one

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of our pharmaceutical manufacturers, and the day shift to make

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whatever they were making would close down, and then an

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hour later a night shift would open off the books,

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producing legitimate product, but under a generic label, you know,

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to sort of get around our patents and so forth.

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So there's that problem. And then the other problem with China,

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which now goes back at least twenty years or more.

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As I've talked a couple of patent lawyers about this,

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and this has been in the press, their copies of

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things like Hermes handbags or Gucci handbags are so good

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that the manufacturers can't tell without practically using electron microscope.

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I think they've now included some tracers and authentic bags,

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and they can find it. But to the even the

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trained eye, you can't tell there're so the knockoffs are

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so good, and that's just straight out piracy, and that's

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a big problem. I don't know if tarif is a

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way to fix that. I don't think so. But the

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spectrum of the problem is even worse than you think.

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Speaker 4: I think my.

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Speaker 2: Criticism of some of these arguments it's not that I

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disagree with them, but that whenever Trump does this, everyone

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who favors what he's doing or at is just sympathetic

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to it. Talks about China, and I agree with the

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criticisms of China. I had Tom Cotton on my podcast

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a few months ago. I read a great book about China,

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really eye opening, an alarming book about China. But Trump

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didn't just put tariffs on China. I mean, if Trump

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could come out and said I'm dealing with the China

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problem three months ago, I'd probably have said, fine. But

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we've got tariffs now on India and Indonesia and Vietnam,

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which are countries that we've tried to move manufacturing to

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to get out of China. And we've also got tariffs

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on France and Italy and Germany and Britain, in Brazil

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and Canada. And this is the bit that I just

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find astonishing is that in so far as these tariffs

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make a great deal of sense, it is with countries

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like China communist dictatorships that steal our stuff, make subpar products,

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flood our market. I think sometimes flooding the market is

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fine because then it gives us the chance to buy

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cheap things. But sometimes it's not because the aim is

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to destroy our industry. They want to make sure that

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our factory is closed. But Germany doesn't do that. Britain

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don't do it, you know, Brazil doesn't do that. India

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doesn't do that. So this is the sort of what's that?

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What's that weapon a blunderbus. The blunderbus attitude is a

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longing to me.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think then we all know where we are

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on this and need not to be labor it anymore.

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Charles mentioned the UK, and I wanted to get to that.

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There's a lot of attention focused right now in the

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scepter dial probably outside given it's importance in the rest

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of it, but the place from which freedom supposedly one

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of the well springs of is going through this shuddering

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contraction of what appears to be online rights and access.

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Thanks to their Online Safety Act, it made it very

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difficult for people to go to sites that have adult content,

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and by that I mean anything that be interesting to

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somebody over the age of eight. I mean movies that

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are a scene from a description of a scene from

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a movie that sounds a little violent. Naturally, everybody who

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was opposed to this is being called a pedophile or

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a pedophile enabler, which is always great coming from the BBC.

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Jimmy who Jimmy, Great coming from them, But it fits

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in with the two tier policing idea, with the Bobby's

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knocking at your door because you wrote something mean and

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nasty on Facebook or Twitter. The general idea that anybody

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who shows up to protest a whole bunch of guys

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who's just landed on a boat being given a mobile

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phone and a set of clothes and being stashed off

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in the local luxury hotel, that all of these things

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are now outside of the boundaries of civilized discussion. We

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can't have them, and they've got to be something has

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to be done about them, and it all seems rather sudden.

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Maybe so because the Online Safety Act is finally hitting

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and the repercussions are being known, and other countries are

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looking at it. But it seems as if there's this

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sort of excel And Charles tell me if I'm wrong,

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there's an accelerating deliberalization of the UK that comes as

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something of a surprise, even for those of us who've

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been seeing certain things happen in the last few years.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you're absolutely right. I don't know how

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surprised I am. When I was at Oxford, I was

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there at the time that a fellow student was put

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in a jail cell over night for telling a police

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officer that his horse was gay. Yes, so we've talked

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about this before, I think so. I'm not sure how

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surprising it is. What I find infuriating is exactly the

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response that you adam rated, which is, oh, well, I

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suppose you're in favor of This reminds me of a

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law that California passed, which was enjoined by the Ninth Circuit,

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which said that if you in any way wrote about

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or advertised firearms in a way that could be appealing

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to a minor, he could be fined twenty five thousand dollars.

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And the problem with this in practice was immediately high

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school clay sports teams shut down and magazines were unable

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to write anything that could be plausibly deemed to be

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addressed to somebody under a and so on. In other words,

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you can't do that. Leave aside the First Amendment questions.

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Britain doesn't have one. You can't do things like this

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without affecting everybody. And so to turn around when people

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complain and say, oh, and I suppose you want small

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children to watch pornography, then it's just extremely annoying. The

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problem is, James, is that while there are people who

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are complaining about this, the sort of reaction that you

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have instinctively had to this simply does not exist in Britain.

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Speaker 4: They are just.

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Speaker 2: Much more comfortable with this sort of thing, and it's

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going to take some really stupid prosecutions to make them

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realize that they've got it wrong. Last thing, I'll say,

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there was a law that has been amended but not repealed,

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called Section five. I think it's Section five of the

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Public Order Act, and this law was put into place

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in the nineteen eighties. I think Margaret Thatcher was on

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board with it, she was quite bad on speech sometimes,

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and it eventually met its demise or diminishment when comedians,

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most notably Rowan Atkinson, started complaining that it was being

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used to shut up people who were making jokes, who

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were being funny about, say Islam or different racial characteristics,

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or Christianity or atheism. And there was a campaign and

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at that point the British got it because they saw

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the way that.

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Speaker 4: It was being used.

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Speaker 2: But I do worry that there's no reflexive hostility in

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the way you would encounter in the United States, so

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this sort of thing they have to see it practically fail.

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Speaker 3: I have talked about this with my friends in England,

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and I tend to do so more. I'm a little

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bit hesitant to say anything in the radio noown next less,

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the next time I go through I get scanned by

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the Interpol computer and they say, oh, this fellow, this

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fellow said some problematic things. I mean, I I I

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hear what you're saying, but I don't think that the

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docility that you have described before remains in the same

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percentage I think that. I mean, was it a Telegraph

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columnist who had to who was brought up by charge

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brought up on charges recently for tweeting out something like this.

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I think there are there are more and more instances,

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and again you may have the Telegraph audience self segregating

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on that one and not spilling over into the Times audience.

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But but but the the other portion of it was,

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if I'm trying to remember here was the was the

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banter laws? Stephen, do you know what the banter laws are?

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Speaker 1: I do not.

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Speaker 3: Okay. Well, in addition to the Online Safety Act and

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the two tier policing and the government actually being caught

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trying to do something with social media about getting rid

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of or deep platforming people who talk about two tier policing,

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there was a law that's passed and being called the

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banter Law because it criminalizes pub talk essentially. Now that,

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of course there's nonsense. There's no one's going to criminal Well,

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what it does is it says that the owners of

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a pub are responsible for maintaining a non threatening, inclusive,

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friendly work environment. So if it's possible that your server

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who's coming over to give you your ail, here's you

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making a joke that offends them, than the pub owner

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I believe, is responsible for not policing the banter or

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making it known that certain things are not to be

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discussed that and that's met with derision from every quarter,

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except of course, those who say, oh, so you want

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to sit in the corner of the snug that and

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make jokes about Islam. Maybe maybe they do.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it seems to me that soccer hooligans in the

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pub are now Written's best hope for recovery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, you, me and Julia looking out

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the window saying the pearls is you know that the

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pearls will be our hope. That's what they thought in

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nineteen eighty four as well. I'll tell you what it's

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going to take. I've said this before and i'll say

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it again. I think that Brexit happened when everybody opened

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up their paper and story that the EU was going

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to impose new green requirements on tea kettles and that

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the EU was going to dictate that they boiled a lot,

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took a lot longer to boil in order to save

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the planet. And I think that's what everybody said. I've

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had it right up to here.

399
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Speaker 2: Yeah, just a very very quick point on this, you know,

400
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exactly right. And the thing that always baffled me about that,

401
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,839
James Is. People who hated the EU, myself included, would

402
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always point out how stupid their regulations were, straight bananas

403
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and so forth. And then those who liked the you

404
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would say, why do you always bring that up? That's

405
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not important? And I would think, why doesn't the EU

406
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stop it?

407
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Speaker 3: Then? Right? Well, no, absolutely, because there is somebody whose

408
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job depends on making a yearly report on the average

409
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diameter of Swiss cheese bubbles. Right, it simply is, and

410
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he makes one hundred and forty thousand euros a year

411
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doing this to ensure uniformity in conformity to the Swiss standards,

412
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of course that's why. Yeah, all right, well I had

413
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none of that. Speaking of pubs or whatever, the Russian

414
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equippal is Medvedev caught dolphins said something the other day,

415
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did he did you? Did you hear this?

416
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Speaker 4: Well, this is a really crazy thing to say, isn't it.

417
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Speaker 2: Maybe we'll just go over to America in New.

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Speaker 3: Q Yeah, well he says an awful lot of stupid

419
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and crazy things. And so what do you do in

420
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response to that? You short off and you say he's

421
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drinking again? Or do you say, you know, fine, we're

422
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can move a couple of subs around, Well, take your

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best shot.

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Speaker 2: What interests me about this is that I am actually

425
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a devotee with Trump of the Madman theory, which is

426
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to say that I think one of Trump's greatest characteristics,

427
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and I mean this very genuinely. It sounds like I'm

428
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being silly.

429
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Speaker 4: I'm not.

430
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Speaker 2: One of his greatest characteristics is he says crazy stuff

431
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and people aren't quite sure if it's true. And he

432
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did it with Kim Jong In, and he does it

433
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with Putin, and he does it with Iran and so on,

434
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and it works. I think there is a genuine you

435
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:06,160
in confusion and alarm in the world when Trump talks

436
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,279
that works to the benefit of the United States in

437
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:14,279
nise circumstances. I thought when I heard this that it

438
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:19,079
doesn't work from verte no, because I didn't look at

439
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,960
this and think, oh no, I sort of thought, oh no,

440
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,359
they're not going to do that. You shouldn't say that

441
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unless you're actually going to scare people, and it didn't.

442
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Maybe I'm to desensitize to it, but this just made

443
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me think, you're a silly, backwards petro state losing a

444
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war and you're trying to talk in a way that

445
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:48,720
would have been scary ever to come out of the

446
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mouth of Joseph Stalin, but is not now. So the

447
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madman theory, I thought, only works for some.

448
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Speaker 3: It's told by getting everybody the table to negotiate something

449
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about Ukraine, which I can't imagine anybody doing. But let

450
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,799
me offer this suggestion. I think the best way to

451
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get Russia to the table is to tell Russia that

452
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the United that the entire world community recognizes as legitimate

453
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its occupancy of the eastern portion of Ukraine, just the

454
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same way it worked as Europe or England and France

455
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recognizing at Palestinian state, which is we all knew. Brought

456
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:26,759
Hamas right to the table.

457
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Speaker 2: Happy to have Yeah, I mean I thought you were

458
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serious for a second. Then I did too, trying to

459
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read your eyes.

460
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Speaker 1: Right, I did too, Chargie. I mean, well, so the

461
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backup half a step. So Charnie, you said a minute ago,

462
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I think you said this that Russia is losing the war,

463
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and I'm not quite sure that's right, or if you

464
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mean it literally and comprehensively. They are grinding out gains.

465
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Speaker 4: At great just lost so many people.

466
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Speaker 1: Yes, no, at great Colot. You have to think how

467
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,480
long can they sustain that? And maybe they're playing for advantage.

468
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You want to grab as much territory as we can

469
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until we have to end this because it's too costly

470
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:07,519
or there's sufficient new pressure from the West. But I

471
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also think that Putin has made a the crazy man theory.

472
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The other thing is, you know, Putin ought to be

473
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smart enough to know that one way to get along

474
00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:19,039
with Donald Trump is to give him a little something

475
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,599
flatter him. And Putin has given Trump nothing. And so look,

476
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,839
this is not rocket science or deep psychology. Trump has

477
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,319
been offended that, you know, Trump says these crazy things

478
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:33,160
few months ago, I'll end the war on day one.

479
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:35,960
And he's been in a certain way humiliated by Putin.

480
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,160
And Trump doesn't like that. And so Trump said, okay,

481
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,440
I said sixty days to reach a deal. What a

482
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,039
few days ago he said, I'm going to make it

483
00:25:43,079 --> 00:25:45,759
twelve days, right, We're going to shorten a timeline. And

484
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,279
that may have been part of what provoked Medvedev to say, well,

485
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,079
we'll just send some submarines over, like the Red October

486
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,359
or something. And it seems to me it would have

487
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,079
been easy for the Russians to have thrown some kind

488
00:25:57,079 --> 00:25:59,000
of bone to Trump to put him off for another

489
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:01,720
month or two. But they've done nothing. I mean, they

490
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,200
talk nice on the phone apparently, but you know, no,

491
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,920
even even a ten days cease fire would probably be

492
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,079
the Russia's advantage militarily because they'd move people around and whatnot, right,

493
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,519
But instead it's nothing. And I don't quite understand that,

494
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:18,920
except that they think they're going to win this war

495
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,920
or that Ukraine is on the brink of collects. The

496
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,480
other thing is we don't get much good reporting on this,

497
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:27,839
I don't think. But I think that there maybe at

498
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:31,480
the point of collapse politically and economically and otherwise. But

499
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,160
I'm not.

500
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,519
Speaker 3: Sure going to that a little bit more because we

501
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:36,839
all know, I mean, it's been years. It grinds on

502
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,799
the map of the line goes back and forth, drones

503
00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:42,480
go this way, drones go that way. The one thing

504
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:45,160
that we can take away from this is that the notion,

505
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,759
the image is the reputation of the Red Army, and again,

506
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:51,119
who cares what it is if they can get the

507
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,359
job done on the end of what he cares about

508
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,759
their rep But just the whole notion of the Russian

509
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:58,079
military strength, which those of us who grew up in

510
00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:03,160
the seventies and eighties, the Russian army consisted exclusively of

511
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,240
either drunks who would go out there and get slaughtered,

512
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:09,599
or Evandrago characters who would be standing dispassionately in their

513
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,680
uniforms over a glittering computer console. It's revealed now the

514
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,759
incompetence of their organization. It's reliance on brute force and

515
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,000
horrific discipline, if you want to use that word. It's

516
00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:24,559
lack of equipment, it's lack of material l the way

517
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,599
that their whole system is dependent on Western interaction for

518
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,319
things like, oh, I don't know, roller bearings, The way

519
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,839
that now an enemy can be seen to fly missiles

520
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,599
far afield and destroy their prize bombers and the rest

521
00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:40,960
of it. They look pathetic. They just absolutely do. But

522
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:43,720
it doesn't mean that they can't. They can't force the

523
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:46,279
Craine to the table a next all of that land

524
00:27:46,279 --> 00:27:51,480
that they have, which is at this point parched, useless, demilitarized,

525
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,920
claim a victory and go home. But that requires Ukraine

526
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,799
to say, all right, you will seed this to you,

527
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,680
and now we are going to stop the war. Nobody believes, however,

528
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,519
that if they did do that and sat down and

529
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,480
said to Russia, all right, all right, you got these,

530
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,799
it's yours, get out of here, that they wouldn't be

531
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,200
back ten years later attempting to take Keev and bring

532
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,160
little Russia back into the fold. Nobody in your grain

533
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,839
believes that. So what are they to do?

534
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: I have no idea. That's you know, that's sixty four

535
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,039
billion dollar question.

536
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: At least it is wild though. The casualties, that's why

537
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:30,000
I say they're losing. You're absolutely right, Steve, your characterization

538
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,759
is absolutely right. But I just finished watching The World

539
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,400
at War, the twenty six part series on World War Two,

540
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,079
and something I had, for some reason not internalized is

541
00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:45,400
that World War One was far more deadly for the

542
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,319
British than World War Two. The British numbers of dead

543
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:52,440
in World War Two about three hundred and fifty thousand

544
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,279
excluding the Empire, and the casualties are about three hundred

545
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:55,960
and fifty thousand.

546
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,279
Speaker 4: Twos.

547
00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: You've got seven hundred thousand, eight hundred thousand British casualties.

548
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,680
The Russian casualties in the Ukraine War are a million,

549
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,519
with a quarter of a million dead. That is if

550
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,920
you think about that, that is astaushing. How many Americans

551
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,480
died in what will say, three hundred thousand?

552
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:14,279
Speaker 4: I think I think.

553
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:16,279
Speaker 1: It's four something, three or four something like that.

554
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is just it is ridiculous. But the Russian react,

555
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,880
the Russian attitude toward war has I has been Jay

556
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,279
Leno's toward Dorito's you know, show your life, we'll make

557
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:29,599
more right. But what's interesting in this respect is before

558
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,680
you had all the peasants and the serfs coming off

559
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,680
the farm to grab a broomstick and go fight for

560
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,240
the czar. Now what you have is this indiscriminate use

561
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:40,160
of talented people, of specialists, just throwing them into meat

562
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,640
waves and meat assaults. So like, what do you do, Well,

563
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,920
I actually designed, build, operate highly sophisticated drones. Great, okay,

564
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:54,480
here's here's your whole go join the assault. At least

565
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:56,200
of course, if what I'm reading is correct, and I

566
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,799
read a lot of sources about this, So maybe yes,

567
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:00,799
they've lost a tremendous amount of people, but it's also

568
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,400
the kind of people that they have lost that puts

569
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,599
them in a bad shape. But do you think that

570
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,319
anybody is Here's two things to and the Ukraine question,

571
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:13,200
do you think a anybody is going to in the

572
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,559
West in Europe is going to want to get back

573
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:20,480
to the old naturalized ways of companies interacting and they

574
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,680
get our brands and we buy from them, and we're

575
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,640
going to pretend that we're kind of see them on

576
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,240
the same civilizational plane. Do you think that there's going

577
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:29,160
to be an appetite for that, or will the native

578
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:33,359
European avarice and selfishness return and they will strike deals

579
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,279
with the terroristic gangster gas station?

580
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,079
Speaker 1: I bet on the ladder, if only because the European

581
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:43,720
economies are so weak compared to ours. I mean, they

582
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:46,400
really do have a big problem with economic growth. And

583
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,440
as much as they all like to say we're all

584
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,039
good members of the EU, I think they are going

585
00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:54,759
to look out for their own advantage at some point

586
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,279
each country. And I think it'll be easy for Russia

587
00:30:57,319 --> 00:30:58,640
to pickoff in China as well.

588
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: Charles, you Agreen, I totally agree, and especially on energy,

589
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,640
because the EU is full of hypocrites who on the

590
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,519
one hand say we're saving the world with our green policies.

591
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:14,799
Now you can't create any energy here in Germany or

592
00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:17,039
what you will, and on the other hand, turned around

593
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:17,319
and buy.

594
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:17,839
Speaker 4: It from Russia.

595
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,279
Speaker 2: And they need to keep doing that because otherwise they're

596
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:23,519
going to end up unable to power that countries.

597
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: Second question, how about if, at the conclusion of the

598
00:31:28,839 --> 00:31:32,599
agreement whatever is reached between Ukraine and Russia, that we say,

599
00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:35,680
and just to make sure that Russia conforms and lives

600
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:38,519
up to its end of the bargain, we're going to

601
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:43,279
give Ukraine two nice, beautiful, shiny nuclear.

602
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,559
Speaker 1: Weapons, or you know, we'll just give you back the

603
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:48,640
ones that we took from you thirty years ago, which

604
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,759
I think have probably been destroyed. But never mind, we

605
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:54,880
can still say something like that, yes, yeah, yeah, I don't.

606
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: Think we will. You know, in a non proliferation age,

607
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,759
I can't anybody saying, you know, you don't have them,

608
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:01,799
you want them? Well.

609
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this is my criticism of the way Biden

610
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,799
approached this whole business from the very beginning with three

611
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,599
years ago. Now is it was repeat in some ways

612
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,039
of our Vietnam strategy. You gave Ukraine just enough force

613
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,759
to not lose, but not enough to seriously threaten Russia

614
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:21,160
with any real damage or to make them really worried

615
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:24,160
that they might face some real damage. And so it

616
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,599
was always start stop, you know, where Ukraine would say, gosh,

617
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,200
we'd like some tanks, We'd like some F sixteen's, we'd

618
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,039
like this missile system, and we'd say, no, you can't

619
00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:34,319
have that, and then three or four months later say, okay,

620
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:36,319
you can have them. And what are the are the

621
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:38,200
right weapons or not? I don't know. I'm not sure

622
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,319
the m one abrams tanks have ever been used in

623
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:42,640
the field, or if they have, whether they've been very effective.

624
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,000
People say the age of the tank is over now

625
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,039
now that we have these drone swarms and so forth.

626
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,319
But nonetheless, there was a clear signal there that the

627
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,839
United States is committed to Ukraine not losing, and that

628
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,200
meant if we stick it out like the North Vietnames,

629
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,400
eventually will win. Ye Trump, I then go back to

630
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,880
the previous point, Charlie, mate, Trump is the ideal person

631
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,039
to up end that assumption that the Russians have made.

632
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,519
You know, he just might give them more serious weapons.

633
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Maybe not nukes, but you know, he might give them.

634
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,480
And I think Trump has said a couple of times

635
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:16,759
maybe we will give them missiles that can strike deep

636
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:19,160
into Russia. So you know, who.

637
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: Knows switching gears to domestic events. Charles, I know that

638
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:25,960
as somebody who has had young children in the house

639
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,160
for a while, you no doubt are deeply steeped in

640
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,279
all the wonderful lore. Sesame Street and Elmoan, all those

641
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:33,799
are the things that the Republicans hate. I mentioned that

642
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:36,759
only begins the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a Nonstan Friday

643
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:40,839
that shutting down the New story says, the CBP is

644
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,400
a private nonprofit. But somehow, I guess when the government

645
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,880
takes their money away, this private nonprofit just just blows

646
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,039
up and dries away, dries up and blows away. Do

647
00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:53,599
you think that the it would be possible for people

648
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,680
in rural areas to find out what the heck is

649
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,720
going on? Because this is what I've been. There are

650
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,960
people who are sitting around their wireless sets, and they're old,

651
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,759
and they barely have the strength anymore to wind the

652
00:34:05,839 --> 00:34:07,640
thing up to you to get the current so they

653
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,559
can listen to it. And then they just move that

654
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:11,840
little dial until they can find the only one spot

655
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,760
in the dial that tells them out in Bumpspeck, North Dakota,

656
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:17,320
what's going on in the rest of the world. So

657
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,760
this means a veil of ignorance, rawsy and sort of

658
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:24,920
dark knight falls over rural lands as the station's shudder

659
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,000
and fall silent. How are you dealing with this knowing

660
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,559
that this is what you've voted for?

661
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 4: Well, No, that's the key, isn't it. This is what

662
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,760
you've voted for. Argument.

663
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,039
Speaker 2: This is why I hate this argument because rather than

664
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:39,199
just make the case for themselves, the left always has.

665
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 4: To do this.

666
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: They always have to end up with And that's why

667
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,639
getting what you want is going to be bad for

668
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:44,599
you and your voters.

669
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 4: They always do it.

670
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,599
Speaker 2: Well, you say you want tax cuts, but if you

671
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,960
do them, it'll be bad for you and your voters.

672
00:34:51,559 --> 00:34:52,079
Speaker 4: No, it won't.

673
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,199
Speaker 2: Well, if you reform entitlements, then it will be bad

674
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:57,159
for you and your voters.

675
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: No, I won't. Well, if you get rid of NPR,

676
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:00,519
it'll be.

677
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,519
Speaker 2: Bad for guys. No, it will be bad for you.

678
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:09,719
That's why you are unhappy about it. The argument about

679
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:15,280
the only source of weather forecasting rural people being NPR

680
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,800
is so stupid that it just doesn't even need Dwelling

681
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,679
on the Sesame Street. One is slightly more complicated, but

682
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,719
it is the case that for a long time. Now

683
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,159
ten to fifteen years, Sesame Street has been primarily accessible

684
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,400
through HBO or Netflix or add on packages that you

685
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:35,960
get if you have a TV service or Amazon Prime.

686
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:39,480
My kids never liked Sesame Street, but they do like

687
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:42,800
some PBS programs, as a show called Wildcrats about these

688
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,880
brothers who go out and look at animals. Well, you can,

689
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:50,000
if you time it just right, get a few Wildcrats

690
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:54,519
episode on the local free TV station in Jacksonville that

691
00:35:54,679 --> 00:36:00,239
broadcasts broadcast did. But if you want to actually watch

692
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,519
them outside of weird times, or watch more than one

693
00:36:03,519 --> 00:36:05,880
every month, then you just have to get the four

694
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,800
dollar bolt onto Amazon Prime, which gives PBS kids. It

695
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,719
must have been the case for a very long time. Also,

696
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:16,119
there's a lot of them on YouTube. So I just

697
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:20,000
think these talking points are rooted in people's conception of

698
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,760
how television works in the eighties, as well as being

699
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,599
deeply cynical.

700
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: You're absolutely correct, yours. Most of these people do have

701
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,920
internet access. We're not living at a time when there's

702
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,840
one copper wire that extends out to these distant rural communities. Actually,

703
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,639
there's a big push back in the day to get

704
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:38,039
fiber to the barn as they called it, huge infrastructure.

705
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:41,199
They would run the fiber optic cable everywhere in the

706
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,519
rural areas, superseded by things like STARLIK. So, now, if

707
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:47,599
all these people who are worried so much about the

708
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:50,960
Corporation for Public Broadcasting meaning no information goes to people

709
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:53,920
in rural areas, take that money, raise it yourself, and

710
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:56,880
offered to buy starling packages and dishes receivers for the

711
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,280
people in these places who need them. There's a great

712
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,000
charity they could set up. Are they doing it? Nope,

713
00:37:02,039 --> 00:37:03,599
because that's supposed to be the government's job.

714
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: Steven, Well, I mean, their lives get more and more pathetic.

715
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,159
I mean, for thirty years, the main lie would be, well,

716
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,360
you know, really the federal money is not that it's

717
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,400
a tiny portion of the budget for PBS and the

718
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,679
Corporation Public Broadcasting. It's really for our stations out and

719
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:22,480
you know across America. There may be an element of

720
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,519
truth to that. And so they'd say why bother, you know,

721
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:28,400
And you'd say back, well, if it's so a little,

722
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,199
why not, what's the problem of giving it up? And

723
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,760
they'd say, oh, they'd come up with something. And so

724
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,239
now they're saying this ludicrous idea that people in rural

725
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,599
areas won't get. You won't get any news anymore, proper reports.

726
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:45,039
The other thing that's always bothered me is that PBS

727
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:48,039
and NPR for that matter, but especially PBS has been

728
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,519
a vehicle for some people to get very rich, like

729
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:54,719
Bill Moyer's became a multi millionaire through a PBS show

730
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,159
that he could then piggyback and get corporate sponsors for

731
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:01,039
his own foundation and whatnot. Book deals burns the same way.

732
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,519
Uh and Sesame Street that was you know, Children's Television Workshop,

733
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,440
my next door neighbor who's passed away, but he was

734
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,920
the head writer for Children's Television Workshop and later the

735
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,159
Muppet Show would come over and have Martinez with my

736
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,960
dad before jetting off to London in the late seventies,

737
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,679
which is where they filmed The Muppet Show. They were

738
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,119
making good money doing that and selling it to PBS,

739
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,400
and so this, you know, this sort of the artisanal

740
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,079
were just a bunch of gosh, We're like, we're at

741
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:30,960
the level of associate professors at a little university. It's

742
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,679
just ridiculous, and it striven me crazy for years, and

743
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,880
we've gotten nowhere until you got enough mean Republicans finally

744
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,079
in office to do something about it, because I mean,

745
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:43,320
I remember last comment. I remember in the nineties, you know,

746
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,760
the Reagan people tried this and failed. The Newt Gingrich

747
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,079
and Republican Congress wanted to defund it, and they that's

748
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:51,039
what they were saying, you want to kill big Bird.

749
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,199
And Newton would say, big bird makes money. What do

750
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,960
they need to harm money for? And you know, but

751
00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:00,880
it's still Republicans were always too timorous to pull the

752
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,880
trigger and do it.

753
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: But now they have, so you know the other thing

754
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,559
that was funny about this was that they hit on

755
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:12,320
this idea that they would say, but we put George

756
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,400
Will on PBS. But George Will has been in favor

757
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,760
of defunding NPR and PBS for twenty years. When this

758
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,239
came up with Romney, George Will record columns say if

759
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,960
you can't get rid of that funding, you can't get

760
00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:28,320
rid of anything. So the person that they were using

761
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,639
as the avatar of why their balance wants to get

762
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:32,480
rid of it too.

763
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yes, indeed, Well maybe we should end with

764
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,320
this because I saw this news story the other day.

765
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,960
I knew exactly how he was going to be played,

766
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,159
but it also brought back a memory, a deeply conflicted

767
00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:51,559
memory of my youth. Washington Post is reporting that Pump

768
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,039
Trump is reviving the presidential fitness test. Now, when you

769
00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:00,800
add this to the Sydney Sweeney bruhaha or kerfluffle or

770
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,280
whatever you want to call it, what we have here is,

771
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,000
of course, strength through joy. Cue the old newsreels from

772
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:09,719
the thirties of young arians with their close cropped hair,

773
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,639
smiling in the sunshine as they perform calisthenics. But this

774
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,800
is going to be seen as an example of that.

775
00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:17,880
It will be seen as quasi fascistist, if not outright so.

776
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,559
And it will also be seen as absurd because Donald Trump,

777
00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:26,400
Pip's also a fabulously unhealthy man. It started under Ike

778
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:27,320
this thing.

779
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: When I thought I thought it was a Kennedy thing, Sorry,

780
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:31,360
so did I.

781
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,039
Speaker 3: But when I researched it, it was Ik who started

782
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:35,880
the thing. And you can imagine why. It was part

783
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,280
of that whole sort of mid fifties panic about youth,

784
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,400
which plays into the juvenile delinquency, which plays into all

785
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,920
that stuff that must have just mystified the people coming

786
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,920
back from the war looking at these kids sitting around

787
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,480
being complaining and sneering with their switch plates, like what's

788
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,280
the problem. But we were worried about them not being

789
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,760
able to read. We were worried about them not having

790
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,679
science because we're being lapped by Sputnik, and we were

791
00:40:57,679 --> 00:41:00,840
worried about them becoming sort of physically degenerous and soft.

792
00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:03,000
So I comes up with this thing where you're gonna

793
00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:05,400
have to figure out how to do some pullups, You're

794
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,800
gonna have to do some sit ups. Now, Kennedy I

795
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,079
think may have surfaced it more and come out with

796
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:13,559
a medal for this, that and the other thing, because

797
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:15,960
he was all about the vega, even though we know

798
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,880
that he was fabulously unhealthy himself too, with the backs

799
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,239
and the pills and the rest of it. But I

800
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,320
grew up during this period when we were made to

801
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,079
do these things, when we were humiliated on the stage

802
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:35,079
of the grade school gymnasium. My gym teacher was a

803
00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:41,239
man named ed Gorilla. Mister Gorilla, I wasn't spelled that way.

804
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,119
It was spelled with an A, but and he had

805
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:45,679
a brother named Harold, so there actually was in Fargo

806
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:49,559
a Harry Gorilla. But mister Gorilla who sort of in

807
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:52,239
my mind is now sort of like this Ed Sullivan

808
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,400
with a coach's whistle. That's how I imagined him. Was

809
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:58,599
tremendously disappointed in me and my inability to do the

810
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:01,039
most basic of things. That I would break my neck

811
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:02,480
if I show me to the top of the pole

812
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:05,320
and touch this. I mean, it's just Jim was a nightmare.

813
00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:08,280
But the one thing that will never ever ever go

814
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:15,840
away is the commanding voice of Robert Preston singing chicken Fat. Charles,

815
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,239
you know not of what I speak, Stephen, you may.

816
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,639
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, very much so.

817
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:21,039
Speaker 4: No.

818
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: I remember the presidential fitness test from the first grade,

819
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,840
and I vaguely recall, you know, folders or literature that

820
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,239
the presidential seal on it. And it was one of

821
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,840
my early humiliations as a late blooming athlete, I mean

822
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:32,639
very late blooming.

823
00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 3: But we had to do the fifty yard dash timed.

824
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,119
I wasn't scared of that. It was the six hundred

825
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:39,119
that killed me. But go on, oh yeah, I don't remember.

826
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: All I remember is that I still remember my humiliating

827
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,519
time in the fifty yard dash in the first grade.

828
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:45,840
It was eight point five seconds, which is really slow

829
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,840
even in the first grade. I mean, the best athletes

830
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,639
in my class. They were doing it in six point

831
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:52,719
five seconds and they became you know, wide receivers in

832
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,840
high school football and whatnot. And anyway, no, I remember

833
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,320
that that was a very big deal. And plus I've

834
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,360
always been a Robert Preston fan from The Music Man

835
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,719
and other great films of that era.

836
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:10,199
Speaker 3: But yeah, that song done done, touch your toes ten

837
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,920
times every morning, every morning, not just now, and then

838
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,280
go you chicken fat. None of us could actually figure

839
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,079
out what chicken fat was, because when you look at

840
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:23,239
the chicken, it seems to be pretty much tightly packed

841
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,920
with the things that chicken needs and that we would

842
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,400
later subsequently eat. But chicken fat, I guess was this?

843
00:43:28,159 --> 00:43:31,320
So I mean, if that was that somehow is now

844
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,599
seen as this wonderful new frontier. Kennedy asked Camelot thing

845
00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:38,719
where everybody happily doing their calisthenics in the morning, because

846
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,719
that's what JFK wanted us to. But now I guarantee

847
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,599
you it's going to be seen as strength of joy

848
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:45,159
and not our camp.

849
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: And you know step one is setting up the camps, right, the.

850
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 3: Camps have already been set up where Charles is right,

851
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,199
How close are Charles? How close are you to alligator alcatraz?

852
00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:55,679
Speaker 4: Oh? Quite a long way.

853
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:58,639
Speaker 2: It's in southern Florida, right in the middle in their

854
00:43:58,679 --> 00:43:59,599
alligator alley.

855
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:02,639
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, I'm up north near Georgia.

856
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:08,199
Speaker 3: There have been no confirmed eatings prisoners yet.

857
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 4: No.

858
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: Well, I obviously took Trump's advice when he explained how

859
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,719
to run away from an alligator.

860
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 3: Oh did he I did? I didn't hear that was

861
00:44:16,519 --> 00:44:18,480
so funny.

862
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 2: Well, he went into an extended disquisition about how the

863
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,719
old conventionalisdom used to be that you should zig zag,

864
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:29,800
and if you zigzag, it tries to follow you, and

865
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,880
its tail is heavy and so it can't catch up

866
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,440
with you. But now people have realized that you should

867
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,239
just run in a straight line away from it. So

868
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,599
he was explaining how to do it if someone escapes.

869
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: I missed that part. I just liked the idea of

870
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,360
the tail going back and forth and becoming unbalanced certrifically,

871
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,960
centrifically as it zigs and zags, so that the tail

872
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:49,719
exactly you know, moves so fast in an oscillating fashion

873
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,039
that makes it impossible for the alligator to move forward.

874
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,159
Does this work with crocodiles, though you know the distinction,

875
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,360
So does that work with crocs as well?

876
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think it works with alligats.

877
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,159
Speaker 2: As was the point Trump has realized, apparently at this

878
00:45:03,199 --> 00:45:05,360
point in his life, that this is a myth.

879
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 4: It's this thing that is so.

880
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:13,199
Speaker 2: The number of people who have died in Florida from

881
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,360
alligator attacks in the last seventy years is fifty. They're

882
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,199
all the same. They're all the same when you read

883
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,079
about them. They're sad, but they're also avoidable. Here is

884
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:27,239
how you die in an alligator attack in Florida. Step one,

885
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,079
you have a small dog. Step two, you walk that

886
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,400
small dog near too near a body of water that

887
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:40,679
has alligators in it. Three, an alligator comes up, sees

888
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,239
the small dog, thinks it looks tasty, and bites it.

889
00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 3: Four.

890
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 2: Rather than running away and thinking, well, it's very sad,

891
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,480
that was a nice dog. I'll get another one, you

892
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:55,159
think I'll fight the alligator and get Fido back. And

893
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,400
that's the point of which you die from alligators in Florida.

894
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,760
Read any story in seventy years, and they're all that.

895
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,320
There's this conception out there somewhere that people just minding

896
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,960
their own business having a martini in Florida turn around

897
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,320
to be four an alligator, and it's just not true.

898
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,599
Speaker 3: So it's walking along with a bond, bond and a leash.

899
00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:20,199
I get it. Isn't there some sort of basic alligator

900
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,320
repellent that you could wash your dog in that would

901
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,920
make it unpalatable? You would see.

902
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: That's a great question, But did you know that about

903
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,960
an alligators? The reason that they're so dangerous but also

904
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:34,559
easy if you're Steve Owen to fight is that the

905
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,960
muscles that they bite down with are incredibly strong, three

906
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,199
thousand pounds worth of pressure. But the muscles that they

907
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,239
used to open their mouth are tiny. They're almost non existent.

908
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:48,280
And that's why you can stop an alligator opening its

909
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,480
mouth with your finger and your thumb. But once it

910
00:46:50,559 --> 00:46:53,159
bites down on your say your leg, for example, you're done.

911
00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:54,960
There's no way you could navigate it off. It's like

912
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,280
being a hydraulic mechanism.

913
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 3: So the good part then is that you can clam

914
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:03,320
its mouth shut with your hands. The bad part would

915
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,079
appear to be what follows after that.

916
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 4: That's about right.

917
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, So people in Florida then carry bungee cords that

918
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:13,760
they can just wrap around the snout clip it to.

919
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 2: If you the alligated guys when we see them sometimes

920
00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:18,760
because they come out here. Because people see alligats and

921
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,519
call them in and you're not allowed to kill them,

922
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:24,679
and that's you're really in danger. I have to go

923
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,159
I'm sorry, no, you call them in and then they

924
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:29,039
end up in a restaurant. But people use electrical tape.

925
00:47:29,079 --> 00:47:31,760
That's how weak the alligator is. One wrap round of

926
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,280
electrical tape on an alligators snout and a can open it.

927
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:35,639
Speaker 4: Well.

928
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: Coming in California, I don't think there's any equivalent to this.

929
00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:42,480
As a matter of fact, I think that there is, yeah,

930
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:45,920
an era hold over that ought to have gone extinct

931
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,679
and awful long time.

932
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: It's not a lizard, But so out here in California

933
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,880
where I live in a remote area and a central coast,

934
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,079
I'm very close to a public ranch land with trails

935
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:57,960
through the forest that was closed yesterday by the fire

936
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,280
department because of a mountain lion site. And I've always

937
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,840
been told that if a mountain lion attacks you, you

938
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,880
will not know it until it's over because they're quiet.

939
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,199
They you know, jump at you from out of the

940
00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:07,920
bushes or trees.

941
00:48:08,039 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: Or something.

942
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: So my normal walking or jogging route is close to

943
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,679
me right now. So not quite an alligator, but still

944
00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:15,960
something to worry about.

945
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,199
Speaker 3: They at least seem to evolved a little bit beyond

946
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,480
the pond dwelling reptilian nightmares that are alligators and crocodiles.

947
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,280
But I mean, in everybody's mind, they only exist in Florida.

948
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:29,800
No other state app no whether state has them. I'm

949
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,360
not sure how far they go, but you know, at

950
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,239
least they're at least they're there. We know where they

951
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,199
are there, they're well contained, gentlemen. Anything else before we go,

952
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:40,920
I can't think of what. Oh yeah, Pentagon's going to

953
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,360
try the Golden Dome sometime this week and get back

954
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,719
to me on that. Remember being told that missile defense

955
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,199
was absolutely pointless. Do you remember in the eighties when

956
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,639
SDI was going on the very idea was technologically impossible

957
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:55,239
and also highly highly provocative to do.

958
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love pump on this stuff. This is

959
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,360
the kind of stuff Trump does that no one else

960
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,320
does that. I admire the space Force in the first term.

961
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:08,760
It was a terrific idea that got mocked because of

962
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,280
its name or for a lack of imagination. But it's

963
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,159
a really good idea and golden Dome. This is what

964
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:17,079
I want the federal government to do. Like, if we're

965
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:18,519
going to have a federal government, I have.

966
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 4: To pay for it. This is what I wanted to do.

967
00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 3: I agree. Do you know what the most anti ballistic

968
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,320
missile defense movie ever made might be? If I recall

969
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:34,360
correctly Raised the Titanic. Oh, I haven't seen it. You've

970
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,159
never seen Raise the Titanic. You've probably you've probably seen

971
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:38,760
the ship go down a few times. You owed upon

972
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,000
yourself to see it come back up. It's a very

973
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,000
interesting movie, broke the studio, it was extremely expensive, rather

974
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:48,480
inert in parts, and has one of those long attenuator

975
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:51,400
John Berry scores. Oh but I repeat myself, but I've

976
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,960
always had a soft spot in my heart for it,

977
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:54,880
except for the ending, because the whole point of the

978
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,960
thing is, My God, we can't have strategic defense initiative,

979
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,559
and we can't have ballistic defense. That would the worst

980
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,039
thing in the world. It's a strangely, oddly deflating way,

981
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,639
but it's of a time of the seventies and the eighties,

982
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,159
with a sort of that what are you gonna do? Nilism?

983
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,360
Pessimism and civilizational exhaustion that you saw at the times,

984
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,360
which I'm happy to say, does not seem to be

985
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,199
animating the right side of the creative world. At this time.

986
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,800
There seems to be actual interest, passionate support Western seven.

987
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,920
If the other guys want to be at and moan

988
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,199
about it, go ahead and make that case to the public.

989
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:28,960
We have made our own case from ricocheta at the

990
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,079
public for the last hour and now are declining to

991
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:34,880
do anything. But thank you Charles, thank you Steven, Thank

992
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,159
you the listeners for listening. Go to ricochet dot com

993
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,519
sign up. Do not do not go to Apple podcast

994
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:43,599
and give us five star reviews. I will be so

995
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,639
angry if you do. But what I can tell you

996
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,920
is that if you are a member, you get to

997
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,639
tell us how full of bleep we are by logging in,

998
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,760
because you have to be a member to post a comment.

999
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:58,960
That's why it's one of the best comment sections on

1000
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,960
the internet. You'll find Rica dot com. Head there, gentlemen,

1001
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,639
it's been a pleasure as ever. We'll see everybody in

1002
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:06,639
the comments at Ricochet four point oh and goodbye.