WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:07.040 Big Food and Beyond. 2 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:10.960 With Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so 3 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.240 like to subscribe and rain it. 4 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:16.199 Live star S and Me. 5 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:24.879 Greatest Gone Yesterday and listening watching Lin always keep its watching. 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.399 And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bobo Fay. 7 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:33.840 Well, hello everybody, this is Cliff, And of course you're 8 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.240 listening to Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and usually Bobo. 9 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.719 Today is another one of the circumstances. Bobo is unavailable 10 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.759 for us, so we're just gonna move ahead without him. 11 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.640 And I'm certain at some point you'll get Bobo without me, 12 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:50.320 So all the Bobo fans keep listening. So I think 13 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.479 you're gonna enjoy today's episode. Today, I am thrilled to 14 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.000 have a doctor Haskell Heart on the program here. He 15 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.960 of course is the author of the Sasquatch Genome Project, 16 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:04.640 a failed DNA study kindly kind of a controversial book 17 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.640 based on a controversial study by doctor melbur Ketcham of course, 18 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:10.799 so I wanted to get in deep with that, and 19 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.519 of course any chance we have to talk to somebody 20 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.439 with a legitimate PhD, we want to jump on more. 21 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:19.920 Science needs to be brought into this field. There's nothing 22 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:22.879 wrong with amateurs doing the work, but when scientists get involved, 23 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:25.799 it just brings our subject, the Bigfoot subject, to a 24 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:29.799 brand new level. So with that, doctor Hart, welcome to 25 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:32.560 Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and usually Bobo. Thanks for 26 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:33.760 taking some time for us today. 27 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.200 Well, it's a pleasure to be here, Cliff, and. 28 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.239 I'm really honored to be on your program. 29 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:43.159 Thanks for having me. 30 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.680 Well, you know, I'm thrilled to have you on. When 31 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:48.920 I heard about this book, I bought it. I've read it, 32 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:50.359 and I'll be honest with you, a lot of it 33 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.040 went over my head because I don't have the chemistry background. 34 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:55.159 I took a year of chemistry in college, well in 35 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.319 high school too, but in college. But that's all I have. 36 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.840 So I but I you know, one of my superpowers 37 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:03.120 I've been told is that I can take very complex 38 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:07.079 information and kind of distill it for normal people, you know, 39 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:09.599 people without advanced degrees, for example, because I was a 40 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:11.599 teacher for a long time. So I'm hoping to do 41 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:14.000 a little bit of that today with some of your work. 42 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.240 But before we get into the meat of it, doctor, 43 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:19.439 can you tell us a little bit about your background 44 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:24.599 and what makes you qualified as a scientist specifically to 45 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:26.159 look into something like this. 46 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.360 Well, I have a PhD in chemistry. 47 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:33.319 Any particular kind of chemistry, like organic chemistry or. 48 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.759 What Actually it was physical chemistry, Okay, but I did 49 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:43.800 research that was also in organic chemistry, and I talked 50 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:46.280 for ten and a half years at the University of 51 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:52.080 North Carolina at Wilmington and General Chemistry, Physical chemistry, a 52 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:57.000 couple of other seminars. Then I took a position with 53 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:02.719 Shelle in Houston and Research as analytical chemist and spent 54 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:11.080 over twenty years solving chemical problems for shell So I 55 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:16.280 have a good background and analytical techniques, of which really 56 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:23.599 the biochemistry in this controversial papers based on analytical chemistry. Really, 57 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.560 I'm not a biochemist, but I believe that I'm fully 58 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.319 capable of learning what I need to learn in that 59 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:36.879 area based on my background. Quite frankly, I had not 60 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:41.840 followed the Bigfoot phenomenon very closely. 61 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.000 I kind of heard headlines from time to time. 62 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.479 Until the catch and paper came out, and that's how 63 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.199 I got enervated and involved. 64 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.000 Now, from reading your book, you write about your sasquatch 65 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.919 siting that you actually had when did that occur? In 66 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.439 can you tell us little bit about that? Please? 67 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.199 Yes, that occurred much more recently. Of course. 68 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:11.680 Her paper came out in twenty thirteen, and my sighting 69 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:18.160 was in two thousand and eighteen. And well, I was 70 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:25.439 in southeast Oklahoma in the Wachitaw National Forest and walking 71 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.199 down a trail, and all of a sudden, out of 72 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:34.000 my peripheral vision, I saw this motion and I saw 73 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.759 I saw the animal in clear sunlight, which is unusual, 74 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:42.639 especially in that area, since there's a lot of high 75 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:46.480 trees and it's very dense. There's very few sunny areas, 76 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:51.399 so this was fortunate. It had a nice reddish brown 77 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.800 color to it, as a lot of people have previously reported, 78 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.600 contrasted against a green lit background, which couldn't ask for 79 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:02.639 better contrast. 80 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:07.079 This is not dark gray on light gray or whatever 81 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:08.839 most people see. 82 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:14.360 And I only saw it for I'd have to estimate 83 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:17.519 between two and three seconds. 84 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:20.879 As it darted back into the woods. 85 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.319 I tried to see it again by walking around, and 86 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:32.800 I did not, so later some colleagues and I measured 87 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.439 the distance and it was thirty yards. 88 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:38.360 Oh that's nice and clothes great, which is close. 89 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:41.639 I thought it was fifty yards, but I'm not good 90 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.120 at estimating, and we did this twice. One guy stepped 91 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.920 it off and also he said, point to a tree 92 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:52.279 that's about the same distance, and I did. 93 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:55.519 This was back at the camp, and. 94 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.399 He measured it and it was exactly thirty yards too, 95 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:02.639 So I'm pretty confident that's about, you know, plus or 96 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.600 minus a little air there, that's how far it was. 97 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.040 And that's also very fortunate. 98 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.639 And there were no obstructions in front of me that 99 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:18.920 would have obscured the animal. So I'm very confident that 100 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:20.000 that's what I saw. 101 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:21.160 It was large. 102 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:25.639 We had a another guy stood out there. He's over 103 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.959 six feet tall, and it was a lot taller than 104 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.560 him and a lot broader too, So. 105 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:35.800 And the vertical posture, the. 106 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:43.439 Aspect ratio vertical rather than horizontal, you know, makes it 107 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.000 clear it was not a bear or. 108 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.120 Something like that. And it walked. 109 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:53.360 Very fast, and I which a bear does not on 110 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.839 two feet if it ever cuts on two feet, and so. 111 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:02.360 And I heard a snap a twig or a branch 112 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:03.000 that it. 113 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:07.040 Stepped on, coming right from the same place, so you know, 114 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:11.399 that's another sensory confirmation. 115 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.199 So that's the long and the short of it. 116 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.560 Were you able to locate any footprints or markings in 117 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:20.040 the ground of any sort. 118 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:25.360 The ground was disturbed, but there were no obvious footprints 119 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:26.399 that we could detect. 120 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.839 I see. Okay, One last question about your signing the well, 121 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.560 maybe a couple more thinking about it, But did you 122 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:36.360 get to see the entire you know, head to head 123 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.560 to toe body as it ran away or walked quickly 124 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.639 away into the brush again or no. 125 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.199 I saw it from the top of the head to 126 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:52.000 I would say around the knees. There was some lower 127 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.480 lying brush that obscured the feet. 128 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.360 Did it walk like a human? I know, superficially it 129 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.199 walked like a human, But did you notice any distinctions 130 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.240 like well, that was seemed very unhuman like. 131 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.519 Well, the arms were very long, and it was swinging 132 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:15.800 them as in a fast gate. I did see the hair. 133 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.639 There was some sort of clumped up hair that stood 134 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:24.040 out and glistened in the sunlight. 135 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:26.519 I didn't get a good look at the head. 136 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.000 It was going away at forty five degrees, so I 137 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.159 saw more of the back of the head, and I 138 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.720 didn't see the face, so I can't comment on that 139 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:39.279 the arms were long. 140 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.480 Is about the only other thing I could. 141 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:45.759 Add, now, were you looking for sasquatches when the sighting occurred, 142 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.279 or is this an accidental thing you were hunting or something? 143 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.120 In a general way, I was. 144 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:57.080 I went to this area because it's known to have sasquatch. 145 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:58.679 Other people have seen. 146 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:05.039 Them and observed their doings, and so yes, on this 147 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.720 particular trip, I you know, it was sort of like 148 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:11.159 I'm always alert. 149 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.159 I'm a pretty keen observer of nature, but. 150 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:19.200 I wasn't just you know, keyed in ninety nine percent 151 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:20.919 to finding a sasquatch. 152 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:24.600 So it came as a little bit of a surprise. 153 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.159 Yeah, I think, no matter how well you think you 154 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:30.559 prepare yourself for seeing such a thing, if you're lucky 155 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:32.240 enough to actually have it happen, there's no way you 156 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.559 can prepare yourself. It's like, well, that was silly that 157 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:36.600 I even thought I could figure out whether. 158 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:40.720 I mean, I had a camera but no time to 159 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.559 get it out in a couple of seconds like that. 160 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.559 You know, if I had been a little bit more 161 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:51.600 on the ball, I might have had it ready in 162 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.279 my hands. But then you walk around like that and 163 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:57.679 you're so focused on your camera you don't see other things. 164 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:01.559 So I the way it was no picture. 165 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.159 Oh yeah, And two or three seconds really isn't long 166 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.159 enough to get dracked together, to know. 167 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.960 Your camera can barely focus in that amount of time. 168 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:10.519 You know. 169 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:12.799 Yeah, when I'm driving the roads, and when I when 170 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:14.480 I go out bigfooting or whatever, and I'm alone, I'm 171 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.919 driving the roads, and I keep a video camera right 172 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.639 next to me, right next to me on the on 173 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.960 the center console, and I tell myself, I'm going to 174 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.639 video any animal I see, an owl, a deer, whatever, 175 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.039 And through it throughout the years, I've failed ninety five 176 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.080 percent of the time because the counters are so brief, 177 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.519 and you have to fumble for the camera and you know, 178 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.200 you have to turn the camera on and has a 179 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.679 cycle through it of the software and all that kind 180 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.080 of stuff. It's just ridiculous to think that we should 181 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:44.360 have all these pictures of these things when you kind 182 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.720 of had an average sighting in a way, it lasted 183 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:48.720 two or three seconds, the thing walked away, you never 184 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:50.840 saw it again. That's kind of the story for eighty 185 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:52.240 percent of all sightings, it seems. 186 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.919 I'm sorry to say you that's true. Yes, you're very 187 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:00.440 right about that. And one other approach one could have 188 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.960 is to use one of these go pros, or you know, 189 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:10.039 a camera that's on constantly on your head, directed in 190 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:14.000 the direction that you're looking. Had I done that, I 191 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.440 might have got some sort of video. I don't know 192 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.840 how good it would be, but that's another approach. 193 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:24.879 And then you do that and for days and days 194 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:26.480 and still come up with nothing. 195 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.840 Usually that's the story, isn't it. I'm a huge advocate, 196 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:32.840 and I think I harp on it quite often on 197 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.759 the program here that I think every car driving in 198 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.240 the woods should be equipped with a dash cam, since 199 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.919 you know, almost half of sightings happened from cars on 200 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.759 the side of the roads. If you know, if all 201 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:46.559 these cars had dash camps, like they do in a 202 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:49.000 lot of European and Asian countries, we would have I 203 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.120 think a fair body of footage of sasquatches, and the 204 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.440 Georgia dash camp video would be proof in the pudding 205 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.840 on that one. But yeah, I personally use a Garment 206 00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:59.960 dash camp. I don't I'm not sponsored by Garment or anything, 207 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.840 you know, but that's the one I happen to have. 208 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:04.759 It's fantastic. But if you want to spend less money, 209 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.440 our listeners out there get an eighty dollars dash cam, 210 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.360 you know every they're so cheap nowties I bet, I 211 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.120 bet you can get them for cheaper than eighty dollars, 212 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:14.840 and you can drive roads at night and suddenly you're 213 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:17.000 big footing and have a better chance of getting footage 214 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:18.039 than almost anybody else. 215 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:23.159 Well, that's a great tip I'm going to pick up 216 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:27.200 on myself. I hadn't thought about that much. Now, do 217 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.840 you keep them on constantly or do you switch them 218 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:30.720 on when you need them? 219 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.120 The way that most dash cams work nowadays is that 220 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.000 they're constantly recording, and so if you you know, they're 221 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.639 obviously be for accidents and things like that, you know, 222 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.120 insurance purposes, But that's secondary to me. Bigfoot's number one 223 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.879 on my list, especially considering where I live. So if 224 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.120 you're driving down the road and say a sasquatch or 225 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.679 a bear or anything else you want to capture runs 226 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.960 out in front of the car, the camera is already recording, 227 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.039 and so most of them you just push a button 228 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.600 on the camera itself, and what it does it saves 229 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.919 the footage fifteen or twenty seconds, sometimes thirty seconds before 230 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.960 and after you push the button, And that way you 231 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.679 don't have to go screen through, you know, twenty hours 232 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.120 of you driving, you know, in the freeway right there. 233 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:17.799 It goes in a special file and those files are 234 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.120 about a minute long or forty seconds long, and they 235 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:21.919 are saved in a separate spot, so you can go 236 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.120 back and just go into that one folder and look 237 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.080 at the things that you actually wanted to save. 238 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.240 Well, that sounds like a bargain for eighty two one 239 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:30.360 hundred dollars. 240 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.039 Yeah, yeah, And there's all sorts of cheap ones that 241 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.399 are available out there, you know, Amazon or your local 242 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.799 electronics store. And again, I think statistically speaking, it is 243 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.679 one of the most effective ways one can go bigfooting. 244 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.279 That days though, sounds great, I'm going to do it. 245 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.440 Let's get into the Ketchum study. And you know, and 246 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.679 for listeners are out there who are preparing us to 247 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:54.799 gore their sacred cow, so to speak. We're not going 248 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:56.320 to slam Melbour or anything like that. We're going to 249 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.360 talk about the science here, just the science, because what 250 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.000 doctor haskell Hart has done here is essentially one of 251 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.320 the steps of the scientific process of peer review. Science 252 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.559 is not a body of knowledge that these people in 253 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.159 ivory towers protect at all costs because that's their worldview. 254 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.799 Science generally speaking, doesn't squash unpopular opinions if it stands 255 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.120 up to peer review. It generally speaking, if science is 256 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:28.519 a process of getting to the truth by taking your data, 257 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.240 taking the things that you have here, and forming a model. 258 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:36.799 In this case the DNA stuff aside for sasquatches, we 259 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.240 have this stuff. People say they see these things, that 260 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.080 giant ape like things in the woods. They are these footprints. 261 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.399 Native people tell stories about these sort of things. There 262 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.399 is this evidence here, and so we're going to come 263 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.279 up with a hypothesis, which of course is like a theory, 264 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.480 but not as strong, shall we say, And hopefully we 265 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.720 can go gather more evidence and if the evidence supports 266 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:02.360 our hypothesis andhypothesis, and in this case, our hypothesis is 267 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.840 that there's a wild animal responsible for this stuff, some 268 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.360 sort of primate almost certainly right, And so we can 269 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.159 go gather evidence that might support or not support the 270 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.759 presence of some sort of primate in the woods. And 271 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.679 if it supports it, great, We're going to continue trying 272 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:23.519 to collect more evidence that supports our hypothesis, our guess. 273 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.279 But if we run across evidence that does not support 274 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:31.000 our hypothesis, then we need to modify our model, modify 275 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.919 our hypothesis, and then try to go collect more. And really, 276 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:36.840 one of the things that about science, and I don't 277 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.000 think people appreciate, is that scientists are not trying to 278 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:44.360 prove themselves right most of the time. They're literally trying 279 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:48.200 to prove themselves wrong most of the time. And if 280 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.440 they can prove themselves wrong, then they have to modify 281 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.480 their hypothesis. But if they cannot prove themselves wrong, well 282 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.559 maybe they're correct, but they continue trying to prove themselves wrong. 283 00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:59.679 So I want to get that straight out there, because 284 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:05.720 in society today there is this anti science bias, the 285 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.320 distrusting of scientists and specialists or whatever, because our phone 286 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:11.240 tells us that kind of thing, and I want to 287 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.639 get that out that science in this case, in most cases, 288 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.039 is not a body of knowledge that scientists are protecting 289 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.840 because that's their worldview. It is actually a process of 290 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.159 finding out what the truth is. And doctor Haskell Hart 291 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.840 here has done some of that peer review work, and 292 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:27.440 that's what we're going to talk about today. So we're 293 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:31.440 talking about the scientific process. We're not attacking individuals, So 294 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:36.039 everybody can relax Okay, so thanks for letting me rant 295 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:37.559 for a moment about that. I just want to set 296 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.320 the record straight, doctor Heart. But how did you first 297 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.320 hear about the sasquatch genome project. 298 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.240 Well, I think, like a lot of people, I heard 299 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:52.120 about it on the news TV news, because it was 300 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:59.480 widely reported there by a number of TV networks, and 301 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.480 so that that was my introduction. 302 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:05.400 And I thought, well, this is great, you know, because 303 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:06.759 I knew. 304 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.240 Enough about the subject that it was controversial, and that 305 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.400 other than the Patterson Gimlin film there was and some footprints, 306 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.799 there was little to go on. So I thought, great, 307 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.200 you know DNA, that's the answer here. 308 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:22.119 This will. 309 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.079 Solve the problem of what kind of an animal this is, 310 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:31.000 and that it's different from human or other apes or whatever. 311 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:37.319 So I got involved basis everybody else. I paid my 312 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.559 thirty dollars and at the time you had to to 313 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:46.519 get a copy of the online copy of the paper, 314 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.359 and so then I went to work from there. 315 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.440 Your background isn't necessarily in DNA, as you said, it's 316 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:58.400 physical chemistry, not the organic chemistry. So how much of 317 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.440 a learning curve re looking? Yet at the time. 318 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:06.640 Well, here's the thing as a chemist and a chemistry 319 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:11.200 student way back in the sixties. I knew about DNA. 320 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.240 I knew its structure, I knew what its function was. 321 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.519 I remember when the Nobel Prize was given for the structure, 322 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:25.480 and so it wasn't exactly a foreign subject to me, 323 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:30.240 although I had never done any actual research in the area. 324 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:35.880 And the biggest learning curve, which wasn't all that bad, 325 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:42.359 really was how to use the National Center for Biotechnology 326 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:49.279 databases to search a sequence to find what it matches. 327 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.799 And these are this is free access. Your taxes are 328 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.640 paying for it, and I'm happy to say in this 329 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.519 case you're getting your money's worth if you take the 330 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:05.599 time to learn how to use the software, the search engine, 331 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:10.319 and how to interpret your results, which is a little 332 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:16.039 bit more difficult. So I'm the owner of two pats 333 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.440 in databases, So I mean using databases is not a 334 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:27.680 strange subject. And quite frankly, you're comparing two strings of 335 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.640 just four different characters each. 336 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:32.480 Repeated. 337 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:38.000 You know, A, TG and C the four bases, and 338 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.119 you don't have to be a biochemist to do that. 339 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:45.960 It's a mathematical problem, quite frankly, And so that's how 340 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:46.839 I approached it. 341 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:50.079 Yeah, and just as a very brief primer just for 342 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.480 anybody and maybe some young people who haven't got into 343 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.400 chemistry or biology at or anything like that. Your DNA 344 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:01.200 are basically strands inside of the cells, inside your bodily cells. 345 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.839 And these strands are like the code of how cells 346 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:09.720 replicate themselves. And your DNA is in every single one 347 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.599 of these little strands. And I think it's safe to 348 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.960 say there are billions of these strands throughout your body. 349 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.079 And again, if doctor Hart, if I'm saying anything that's 350 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.720 incorrect because I'm reaching back in my memory twenty years 351 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.359 to college and whatever else, if I say anything incorrect, 352 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.880 please jump in and correct me or add to it 353 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.880 if there's something else that's correct. Everybody's seeing these double 354 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.640 helix things look looks like a ladder that's twisted, and 355 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.839 then the rungs of the ladder are actually chemicals that 356 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.440 bond to one another. And when doctor Hart mentioned the 357 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:40.160 AGC and T, those are abbreviations for I forget. I 358 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.880 don't know what kind of stuff they are, but I'm 359 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.039 sure you do. But they're basically the code. And by 360 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:51.359 having billions of connections of these four different chemicals that 361 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.440 make the rungs of the twisty ladder. The helix in 362 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:58.160 other words, or the double helix that gives us a 363 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.480 unique code code that basically tells the cells how to 364 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.880 reproduce themselves exactly. And of course, every once in a 365 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.759 while everything mistakes are made and the mistakes are introduced, 366 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.000 and that's what we call well, that's basically some sort 367 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.400 of change in the in the in the pattern, and 368 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.240 that's how evolution happens because those changes become more prominent, 369 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:25.279 et cetera. This is literally the basis of all biology essentially, 370 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.000 is what we're talking about. So all biological sciences rely 371 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.359 on this information and evolution, including human evolution. Sorry folks, 372 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.200 but it's true. So if you like going to the doctor, 373 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:40.440 can you owe the doctor's knowledge and education to this 374 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:42.920 subject that we're talking about now. So, but at the 375 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:46.039 basis of it, all's chemistry. We're big bags of chemistry 376 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.880 that are doing stuff, and our chemistry replicates ours, replicates 377 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.880 itself through this DNA. The DNA is the code that 378 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.799 tells how to replicate itself. 379 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:57.920 Yes, that's very true. 380 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:02.160 It codes for protein and proteins are what make your 381 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:06.880 body work structural as in muscles and bones and things, 382 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.279 and then enzymatic which are the catalysts for all your 383 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:17.640 biochemical reactions. And just to pick up on what you said, 384 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.559 your description of it is called the central dogma of 385 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.160 modern biochemistry, and you're absolutely right. 386 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.599 Everything is traced back to that. 387 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:36.160 And speaking of chemistry and the relationship and my background 388 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:40.279 and so on. Actually, it's interesting that the two Nobel 389 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:47.319 Prize winners were a microbiologist and a physicist who applied 390 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:52.240 principles of organic chemistry, which I studied and did very well, 391 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:59.279 and to understand how these bases hydrogen bonded together and 392 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.799 how the structure wrapped around that. And so they're operating 393 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.319 in the field that was not their own, and they 394 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:13.039 got interestingly, the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology, yet 395 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:18.680 another area. So this just shows you how modern science 396 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:24.599 is very interdisciplinary. And don't ever let anybody tell you, 397 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:29.920 as some have done on this in this controversy, that 398 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.240 you don't have the background to do this, because the 399 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.359 Nobel Prize winners on paper didn't either. 400 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.160 Yeah, I think it's fair to say that many of 401 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:46.839