Speaker 1: Love mns quality and value you can trust. At m Ands,
Speaker 1: you can update your home, your wardrobe and theirs with
Speaker 1: quality you can count on. There's the ultimate twelve euro
Speaker 1: les sprats, the softest ever kid sweats from six euro fifty,
Speaker 1: luxurious Egyptian cotton towels from eight euro twenty five and
Speaker 1: so much more value you can trust only at m Ands,
Speaker 1: shop in store or at Marksenspencer dot I.
Speaker 2: E get value you can't argue with at Tesco with
Speaker 2: their amazing club card prices. Serve up something special with
Speaker 2: our finest meal deal for two starring one main, two
Speaker 2: sides and dessert for only sixteen euro like succulent board,
Speaker 2: be approved rushined the strip loin Steaks with peppercorn butter,
Speaker 2: or delicious firous chicken Parmeshana served with creamy potato gritan
Speaker 2: and her mix of rainbow root vegetables. And enjoy Goozillionaire
Speaker 2: or Salder Caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop in
Speaker 2: store or online. Tesco every little helps available the most stores,
Speaker 2: prices very and express.
Speaker 3: Oh hi, it's your friend's dad who bakes greape bread
Speaker 3: Ali ward, Hey, how did you get here? Why don't
Speaker 3: we have flippers? Is a fly? My cousin?
Speaker 4: What is life?
Speaker 3: Welcome to Evolutionary Biology. Also welcome to ssmologies. Smologies are
Speaker 3: episodes we put out every few weeks. They have been
Speaker 3: carved out of longer full length episodes to be a
Speaker 3: kid friendly and much shorter. But for the full version
Speaker 3: with adult language and facts, you can check the link
Speaker 3: in the show notes. Also, thank you to everyone at
Speaker 3: patreon dot com slash ologies for supporting the show. You
Speaker 3: can join for a dollar a month and leave questions
Speaker 3: for experts. And thank you to everyone leaving reviews which
Speaker 3: keep the show up in the charts. And I read
Speaker 3: every single one, like this small one this week from
Speaker 3: Gonga fifty three, who wrote soothing, inspiring, uplifting, optimism inducing,
Speaker 3: fascinating Ologies is good for your humanity. Oh gong Go
Speaker 3: fifty three, that review was good for my day. I
Speaker 3: needed that. Thank you. Okay, onward, So evolutionary biology how
Speaker 3: living things morphed into what they are now. And in
Speaker 3: this episode you're going to pick up some sweet sweet
Speaker 3: definitions like taxonomy and genetic drift. Plus Finch gossip all
Speaker 3: about how Charles Darwin had a really wonderful but difficult
Speaker 3: but wonderful life that involved probably a lot of bad
Speaker 3: toilet experiences. And what posters and news headlines get so
Speaker 3: wrong about how things evolve? So please enjoy this chat
Speaker 3: with an ornithologist from Occidental College in Los Angeles. We
Speaker 3: essentially boil down that our mutations are our strengths and
Speaker 3: adaptability is a virtue. With evolutionary biologist John mccormicklogious.
Speaker 4: Pology, alogymologyology.
Speaker 3: So are you and by trade are you a lutionary biologist?
Speaker 5: Yes, that's kind of war a couple of different hats.
Speaker 5: I'd say evolutionary biologist is probably the broadest one. Sometimes
Speaker 5: I consider myself an ornithologist as well, I should hope
Speaker 5: so as the curator of a bird collection.
Speaker 3: So do you would you say that you have like
Speaker 3: genus and species on the brain a lot?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, rah, yeah, all the time, because that's a
Speaker 5: lot of what we do here with a with a
Speaker 5: specimen collection, just you know, naming the basic units of biodiversity.
Speaker 3: Do you remember as a kid in class learning the
Speaker 3: like what was it? King Philip?
Speaker 5: What is the Yeah?
Speaker 4: What is it again?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: I can't remember it.
Speaker 3: Let's talk taxonomy, which is how science organizes things. So
Speaker 3: you may have learned that plants and fungi and animals
Speaker 3: are classified into domain, kingdom, class, order, family, genus, and species,
Speaker 3: and you're like, wow, how did you memorize that? Now
Speaker 3: the mnemonic device is clutch here. I never remember the
Speaker 3: mnemonic device for this. I remember we learned one. I
Speaker 3: think it was like, dear King Philip came over from Germany?
Speaker 3: Comma so, which is weird? Who ends? What's the so about?
Speaker 3: What's the restless story? Anyway? I never remembered it. Dear
Speaker 3: King Philip came over for grape soda is another way
Speaker 3: to remember kingdom, class, order, family, genus, species. So calling
Speaker 3: an organism or a specimen by its genus and species,
Speaker 3: it's kind of like saying your last name first. But
Speaker 3: it's what we call Lenaean taxonomy. Even though Swedish ecologist
Speaker 3: Carlinius he didn't really invent it. Someone else did. It
Speaker 3: was kind of already established. And so tell me a
Speaker 3: little bit about when you first kind of grasped the
Speaker 3: concept of evolution. When did you start to realize, Okay,
Speaker 3: mutations are responsible for a lot of these different appearances
Speaker 3: and behavior and capabilities of animals, like When did you
Speaker 3: start to get excited about evolution.
Speaker 5: I think it was when I was doing some of
Speaker 5: those early readings in high school. I know there are
Speaker 5: other people that have spoken at more length about evolution
Speaker 5: than Carl Sagan, who was principally an astronomer cosmologist, but
Speaker 5: it was some of his books that delve Moore into
Speaker 5: evolutionary ideas that got me into it.
Speaker 3: From there, John studied at University of Arizona and he
Speaker 3: took an evolution class by doctor Nancy Moran.
Speaker 5: And it was really there for the first time that
Speaker 5: I learned just kind of the basic framework of evolution
Speaker 5: and its processes, mutation, natural selection, and then some things
Speaker 5: I'd never heard of, like genetic drift, which is the
Speaker 5: sort of random way that evolution can take gene frequencies
Speaker 5: and populations.
Speaker 3: What's an example of genetic drift? How do you describe
Speaker 3: that at a cocktail party to someone.
Speaker 5: Who's well, I guess I'd point to the eminem bowl
Speaker 5: and I'd say, take a small handful of Eminem's and
Speaker 5: you end up with three green ones instead of the full,
Speaker 5: you know, rainbow of colors. That's genetic drift, and that's
Speaker 5: what can happen in populations. Sometimes generation to generation, you
Speaker 5: don't always get a random draw of the genes that
Speaker 5: are out there. Sometimes you get a very non representative draw,
Speaker 5: and that can have a big influence on evolution. And
Speaker 5: I kind of liked the idea that there's that sort
Speaker 5: of chance element in there too, as well as kind
Speaker 5: of the more what we call deterministic or kind of
Speaker 5: the more predictable outcomes of natural selection.
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick Darwin detour. Who was he? Why
Speaker 3: should you care? I'm going to run this down as
Speaker 3: quick as I can for you. So. Charles Robert Darwin
Speaker 3: was born in England in the early eighteen hundreds. His
Speaker 3: father was a super rich doctor, and Darwin tried to
Speaker 3: go to medical school but he hated at He hated it.
Speaker 3: He was also the grandson of prominent abolitionists, which is cool,
Speaker 3: and he loved nature in geology, he loved collecting beetles. God,
Speaker 3: he loved it. His dad was like, kiddo, you're a loser,
Speaker 3: and Darwin's like, Dad, can I just go on this boat,
Speaker 3: the HMS Beagle and travel the world and I'll write
Speaker 3: about it? Will you please finance it? Rich dad and
Speaker 3: his dad reluctantly agreed, but at one point said to him,
Speaker 3: you're married for this quote. You care a fun nothing
Speaker 3: but shooting dogs and rat catching, and you will be
Speaker 3: a disgrace to yourself and all your family. But ha,
Speaker 3: jokes on you, pop. Charles Darwin did a bunch of writing,
Speaker 3: kind of like travel blogging, but with more dysentery and
Speaker 3: smeared ink, and his diaries were made into a popular book,
Speaker 3: The Voyage of the Beagle. It was on these travels
Speaker 3: that he started to come up with a theory of evolution.
Speaker 3: But it took him years of tankering and rewriting an
Speaker 3: illness which may or may not have been Shagga's disease
Speaker 3: from a parasite on something called an assassin bug, and
Speaker 3: he was also a little thwarted by I think procrastination.
Speaker 3: But finally he published his on the Origin of Species
Speaker 3: his book in eighteen fifty nine. It was a huge deal.
Speaker 3: He also kind of published it alongside a contemporary of his,
Speaker 3: Alfred Wallace. Now Alfred Wallace never heard of him before
Speaker 3: I started researching this episode. He was working on a
Speaker 3: super similar theory, but he had a harder and more
Speaker 3: impoverished life than Darwin, like Wallace's ship full of work
Speaker 3: sank to the ocean floor. He was a drift at
Speaker 3: sea on a lifeboate Alfred Wallace, who no one ended
Speaker 3: up caring about. But back to Darwin on the Beagle trip.
Speaker 3: So Darwin stopped for supplies in the Galapagos Islands off
Speaker 3: the coast of South America, and he noticed that different
Speaker 3: animals on different islands had slightly different features. For example,
Speaker 3: all those finches, why do they have different beak shapes?
Speaker 3: They got crushing bills, they got probing bills, they got
Speaker 3: grasping bills. What are these bills? Ah, they must be
Speaker 3: adapted for different food sources on each little tiny island climate.
Speaker 3: So what is it about birds that make them prime
Speaker 3: for studying evolutionary biology? Why? Birds? Well, people freaking love birds.
Speaker 3: There have been a lot of them observed, described, collected,
Speaker 3: so there's a good base of knowledge there, as opposed
Speaker 3: to like slime molds, which nobody goes to hunt down
Speaker 3: and marble at. Probably a few people do, and I
Speaker 3: hope they're friends with each other. But anyway, birds.
Speaker 5: And the starting place for a lot of that is
Speaker 5: what is the evolutionary tree of relationships? Just knowing who
Speaker 5: is related to whom is an important starting point, and
Speaker 5: if you don't have that, then that's kind of your
Speaker 5: first step. And so with birds, they've been worked out
Speaker 5: well enough that that first step is kind of already
Speaker 5: completed and you can sort of jump to answering some
Speaker 5: of the broader questions.
Speaker 3: Because you know the characters in the story exactly exactly right.
Speaker 3: Look at yourself or people in your life and say,
Speaker 3: wait to go, j man, I am the result of
Speaker 3: a bunch of evolution.
Speaker 5: It is a pretty marvelous thing when you think about it.
Speaker 5: I tend to not focus so much on humans as
Speaker 5: the pinnacle of evolution.
Speaker 3: Ouch, you have a point, and.
Speaker 5: I like to look at other situations and marvel over
Speaker 5: the millions of years of evolution that produce some remarkable
Speaker 5: radiation of birds, for example. But when you stop to
Speaker 5: think about it, everything that's alive today is the survivor
Speaker 5: of essentially three point seven billion years of evolution.
Speaker 2: It's a matter of trial and erra.
Speaker 5: All those species, millions and millions of species that are
Speaker 5: crawling around on this very thin crust of the earth
Speaker 5: are the products of that three point seven billion years
Speaker 5: of evolution and it's it's a remarkable thing, you know,
Speaker 5: in each one, even from a bacteria to a human,
Speaker 5: has evolved just as much through just as much time.
Speaker 5: I think it's easy to think about certain species alive
Speaker 5: today as being more evolved than others, because maybe they
Speaker 5: have a few more adaptations or they look more complex.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, that bacterium and
Speaker 5: that human were all the products of three point seven
Speaker 5: billion years of evolution.
Speaker 3: Let's debunk some flimflam. What is a myth about evolution
Speaker 3: that you feel like people hang on to other than
Speaker 3: just creationism?
Speaker 5: Right? So, I think one of the great myths is
Speaker 5: embodied in that classic symbol of evolution where you see
Speaker 5: sort of the chimpanzee evolving through something that looks like
Speaker 5: a Neanderthal into modern humans.
Speaker 3: This linear illustration of primates up to modern humans is
Speaker 3: called the Road to Homo Sapiens. It's also been called
Speaker 3: the March of Progress, and it was published in nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty five at a time life science volume. You've totally
Speaker 3: seen it. It has silhouettes of gibbons and then chimps
Speaker 3: and apes all kind of marching in a line up
Speaker 3: until you get to these like tanned muscular neanderthals. Now
Speaker 3: rather than this linear evolution, evolution looks more like a tree,
Speaker 3: as they call it, a tree of life, where one
Speaker 3: thicker branch represents a common ancestor and then new species
Speaker 3: kind of branch outward. So that's called phylogeny. And Darwin
Speaker 3: sketched it in one of his Beagle era notebooks with
Speaker 3: the words I think scrawled above it, which I think
Speaker 3: is super adorable and very humble. Okay, back to that
Speaker 3: road to Homo sapiens linear evolution illustration and how that's
Speaker 3: not how things happen.
Speaker 5: Although it's even used by people who are pro evolution,
Speaker 5: I think it kind of leaves people with a misimpression
Speaker 5: of how evolution actually operates, because you know, chimpanzees and
Speaker 5: humans are each other's closest relatives, and you know, humans
Speaker 5: didn't evolve from chimpanzees. We evolved from some common ancestor
Speaker 5: that we shared with chimpanzees, and so that that depiction
Speaker 5: of evolution is kind of, you know, following a linear pattern, right,
Speaker 5: it belies the true branching history of evolution that's underneath.
Speaker 5: And one of the most common questions you get is
Speaker 5: if humans evolve from apes, Why are there still apes?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: And again it's it's embodied in that symbol. That's not true.
Speaker 5: We didn't evolve from apes. Gorillas and chimpanzees and us
Speaker 5: all evolved from a common ancestor that was neither an ape,
Speaker 5: nor a chimpanzee, nor a human, but something else.
Speaker 3: For more on this, you can see the recent gorilla
Speaker 3: Ology episode or the classic Primatology episodes, although as of
Speaker 3: yet we don't have those in kid friendly Smologies forms,
Speaker 3: but there are bleeped episodes and transcripts on our website
Speaker 3: at aliware dot com slash Ologies extras, which will be
Speaker 3: linked in the show notes. And for every episode we
Speaker 3: donate to a related cause, and this week we will
Speaker 3: send it to a cause that John has supported in
Speaker 3: the past, the Ornithological Council, which supports bird science and
Speaker 3: the people who do it so learn more at birdnet
Speaker 3: dot org. And that donation was made possible by sponsors
Speaker 3: of the show.
Speaker 1: Love MNS, quality and value you can trust. At MNS
Speaker 1: you can update your home, your wardrobe and theirs with
Speaker 1: quality you can count on. There's the ultimate twelve euro
Speaker 1: lesprat the softest ever kid sweats from six euro fifty,
Speaker 1: luxurious Egyptian cotton towels from eight Euro twenty five and
Speaker 1: so much more value you can trust only at MNS
Speaker 1: shop in store or at Marksanspencer dot I e.
Speaker 2: Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their
Speaker 2: amazing club card prices. Have the perfect night in with
Speaker 2: their finest frozen pizza meal deal. Get a finest frozen pizza,
Speaker 2: chips and ice cream all for six euro. Like our
Speaker 2: delicious spicy salami, hot honey and Doya or Margarito wood
Speaker 2: fired pizzas, served up with their crispy chunkie chips and
Speaker 2: ice cream like sea salta caramel or pistachio for dessert.
Speaker 2: Can't argue with that shop in store or online Tesco.
Speaker 2: Every Little Helps available in most stores, Prices varying.
Speaker 3: Express, Okay, and now questions from y'all. You can submit
Speaker 3: questions by becoming a patron for only twenty five cents
Speaker 3: an episode at patrion dot com slash ologies So questions
Speaker 3: from y'all. I do have some questions from listeners, and
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're going to be easy questions.
Speaker 3: You can say pass on any of these Doctor Tigenwall
Speaker 3: wants to know what are the best ways to differentiate
Speaker 3: bad post talk evo bio claims from actual science. Example,
Speaker 3: bananas evolved to be eaten by humans because we have hands.
Speaker 5: Things like that. A lot of the examples of evolution
Speaker 5: you see written about in the popular press kind of
Speaker 5: fall into this trap of portraying evolution as though it
Speaker 5: responds to needs. And sometimes this is just loose shorthand.
Speaker 3: I have heard that people get like a science teacher
Speaker 3: tell me she hates when she hears like, oh, this
Speaker 3: species evolved because.
Speaker 5: It wanted this exactly. Yeah, and so right. The recent
Speaker 5: example was birds that have evolved to feed off of
Speaker 5: bird feeders in Great Britain. So birds have evolved longer
Speaker 5: bills to feed off of bird feeders was kind of
Speaker 5: the headline that you saw, and it kind of gives
Speaker 5: this impression of evolution that it responds to needs. The
Speaker 5: birds sort of thought to themselves, look, you know, I
Speaker 5: really need a longer bill here, and so let's let's
Speaker 5: go for that, you know, let's try to reach that
Speaker 5: pinnacle of evolution. We have the bill plate again. Underlying
Speaker 5: that is the true evolutionary mechanism, which is differential survival
Speaker 5: and reproduction.
Speaker 3: Differential survival and reproduction just being fancy talk for little
Speaker 3: variances and genes mean good mutations which help a plant
Speaker 3: or a bird or a snail thrive and mate in
Speaker 3: its particular environment. Boom, natural selection.
Speaker 5: You know, the way I would say it would be
Speaker 5: much longer. It would be something on along the lines
Speaker 5: of birds with longer bills were able to feed more
Speaker 5: effectively from bird feeders and thereby produce more offs which
Speaker 5: led the population as a whole to have longer bills.
Speaker 5: Now you can understand why a headline writer isn't going
Speaker 5: to go there, Why I don't have a job as
Speaker 5: a headline writer.
Speaker 3: Breaking news. Birds with the longer bills we're able to
Speaker 3: feed morely from burn feeders in there five produce more offspring,
Speaker 3: which would the population as a whole having longer bills.
Speaker 3: It's very wordy. Moving on, Dustin Growick wants to know
Speaker 3: what are your favorite evolutionary anachronisms.
Speaker 5: You might be talking about, like structures like holdovers, evolutionary
Speaker 5: holdovers that don't have a Oh okay, so that don't
Speaker 5: have a use anymore. I mean the hip bones, the
Speaker 5: tiny hip bones of modern whale are a great evolutionary
Speaker 5: anachronism because they really speak to the fact that special creation.
Speaker 5: If you believe that each species is created perfect for
Speaker 5: its particular niche on Earth, why would modern whales have
Speaker 5: tiny hip bones unless there's something in their evolutionary past
Speaker 5: that points to the fact that they were once land animals.
Speaker 3: I've never known that. That makes me want to go
Speaker 3: look at whale skeletons. Yeah, like, oh, whales, you don't
Speaker 3: need that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, why are you carrying that around?
Speaker 3: It's overpacking. Celestia wants to know are there any species
Speaker 3: that we can see current evolving happening in order to
Speaker 3: adapt to our modern world?
Speaker 5: Viruses? Oh, viruses are constantly evolving to humans, and the
Speaker 5: flu virus that's hitting us in one flu season is
Speaker 5: going to be you know, yesterday's news. Next year, there's
Speaker 5: going to be a flu virus two point zero. And
Speaker 5: that's evolution that you can see over the course of generations,
Speaker 5: just a couple of years. Even another great example is
Speaker 5: antibiotic resistance. That's another scary one, and sometimes people don't
Speaker 5: necessarily file that under evolution, but they should because it's
Speaker 5: a direct result of natural selection pressures that we are
Speaker 5: placing on bacteria through our overuse of antibiotics. The reason
Speaker 5: we're getting these superbugs is because of evolution.
Speaker 3: Now, what has been your favorite moment, say, out in
Speaker 3: the field on an expedition, Like, have you ever had
Speaker 3: a moment where it's just like h.
Speaker 5: The moments when you can take people out to an
Speaker 5: incredible field side people who are either just getting excited
Speaker 5: about science and biology or birds, and you can take
Speaker 5: them to a place that you've been to that's just
Speaker 5: way out there and is just incredible. Those are the
Speaker 5: moments I live for. So we got a chance to
Speaker 5: do that recently when we went up into the mountains
Speaker 5: of northern Baja. There's a mountain range called the Sierra
Speaker 5: San Pedro Martyr and it has basically been untouched by
Speaker 5: human habitation anyways. In modern times. There's still cattle that
Speaker 5: they run up there, but nobody really lives up there,
Speaker 5: and you almost don't see any place like that in
Speaker 5: the United States. So this is a place people don't
Speaker 5: really realize this, but there's a huge number of California
Speaker 5: condors up there, and so we had the opportunity to
Speaker 5: go up there and just taking some of the expedition
Speaker 5: members and a student from Occidental College and giving them
Speaker 5: the opportunity to see this place and see these condors
Speaker 5: up close. I mean it was it's spectacular.
Speaker 3: Oh, super quick. Condor is a type of vulture and
Speaker 3: it's inky, black and huge, and it was on the
Speaker 3: brink of death but its being bred in captivity and
Speaker 3: released and it eats dead things and it doesn't have
Speaker 3: a song. It just grunts sometimes. And since I was
Speaker 3: in an ornithology lab, I had one more very important
Speaker 3: scientific question. My friend Dylan Rodriguez has a question about condors.
Speaker 3: She wants to know are they the most goth of.
Speaker 5: All the birds? I don't know, because I think, I mean,
Speaker 5: they're pretty goth. I mean that with the shaved head.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Thank you for entertaining these questions.
Speaker 5: Absolutely wow.
Speaker 3: To learn more about John McCormick's work, you can follow
Speaker 3: on Instagram at m l z Birds, which is the
Speaker 3: account for the more Lab of Zoology at Occidental College.
Speaker 3: You can follow me at Ali Ward with one O
Speaker 3: on Instagram or Twitter and at ologies on Instagram. We're
Speaker 3: also on Twitter. Also, just a heads up, since we
Speaker 3: recorded this, we also did a whole Condurology episode and
Speaker 3: I'll link that in the show notes. It's so good,
Speaker 3: so ask smart people simple questions because it's really the
Speaker 3: fastest way to fill up your brain and it's free.
Speaker 3: So to learn learn more about John McCormick, you can
Speaker 3: follow on Instagram at mL z birds, which is the
Speaker 3: account for the more Lab of Zoology at Occidental College.
Speaker 3: You can follow me at ali Ward with one L
Speaker 3: on Instagram or Twitter or ologies on Instagram. We're also
Speaker 3: on Twitter. I recently started posting more on TikTok at
Speaker 3: ali Underscore Ologies. John is also on Twitter at la Evolving,
Speaker 3: and I'll link those in the show notes. And for
Speaker 3: more Smologies episodes, you can head to aliwar dot com
Speaker 3: slash Smologies, which is linked in the show notes. Alongside
Speaker 3: a bunch of folks who help make the show possible.
Speaker 3: We try to make this small, so we'll link them
Speaker 3: in the show notes. But big thanks to Mercedes Maitland
Speaker 3: of Maitland Audio and Jared Sleeper for turning this into
Speaker 3: a Smologies episode from the full length one. And if
Speaker 3: you stick around until the end of the episode, I
Speaker 3: give you a piece of advice, and this one is
Speaker 3: that arranging your clothes in rainbow order in your closet
Speaker 3: on hangers. It makes hanging them up more fun and
Speaker 3: it looks nice when you're done. And I have hung
Speaker 3: mind like that for years because it makes laundry feel
Speaker 3: like a puzzle or a game. Okay, that's enough out
Speaker 3: of me until next time. Smologites, Bye bye Soldiers, spl.
Speaker 4: Clity, Sologilagies.
Speaker 5: Qualities you love the Beatles love MNS.
Speaker 1: Quality and value you can trust. At MNS you can
Speaker 1: update your home, your wardrobe and theirs with quality you
Speaker 1: can count on. There's the ultimate twelve euro les Bras,
Speaker 1: the softest ever kid sweats from six euro fifty, luxurious
Speaker 1: Egyptian cotton towels from eight euro twenty five, and so
Speaker 1: much more. Value you can trust only at MNS shop
Speaker 1: in store or at Marksspencer dot I.
Speaker 2: E get value you can't argue with at Tesco with
Speaker 2: their amazing club card prices. Serve up something special with
Speaker 2: our finest meal deal for two stirring one main, two
Speaker 2: sides and dessert for only sixteen euro Like succulent board,
Speaker 2: be approved firishined a strip loin steaks with pepper, corn butter,
Speaker 2: or Delicious Firish chicken Parmeshama served with creamy potato grottam
Speaker 2: and her mix of rainbow root vegetables, and enjoy Goozillionaire
Speaker 2: or Saltier caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop in
Speaker 2: store or online. Tesco Every Little Helps available at most stores.
Speaker 2: Prices very in express