WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:12.880 Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind. We pursue wisdom of 2 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.440 the past between primary secondary worlds. Madre Snyder and I'm 3 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:32.679 glad that you're here. Today we have our final patron 4 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:34.719 chat on the Poetic ed Up. But first I want 5 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.079 to make you aware some things. First of all, our 6 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.960 free book club on Augustin's Confessions will be beginning on 7 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.359 April twenty eighth, and then we're going to meet every 8 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:47.079 other Monday at nine pm Eastern for eight sessions. To enroll, 9 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.600 all you have to do is become a patron, whether 10 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:51.880 free or paid. And so again, you can sign on 11 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.439 just as a free member of the Mythic Mind community 12 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:56.960 at patreon dot com slash mythic Mind, and you can 13 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.880 participate with us, although some financial support is always appreciated, 14 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.959 but again not required for this. Next, my buddy Josh Traylor, 15 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:07.920 who you've heard from during some of the patron chats, 16 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.840 is leading a study on Paradise Loss that begins next month. 17 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:14.879 If you like C. S. Lewis or Tolkien, or actually 18 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:16.879 if you like just about anything in the Western canon 19 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.760 past the late seventeenth century, then this will be an 20 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.000 illuminating study for you. I know that epic poetry can 21 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.159 be a little bit daunting if you're not used to it, 22 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:27.799 if you never really try to engage with it on 23 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.159 your own yet, And so it's really helpful to have 24 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.120 a guide who has already spent some time working through 25 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.120 the text, and not to mention the value of having 26 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:39.000 other peers alongside you, and I really want for Mythic 27 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:41.920 Mind to continue offering these kinds of studies from a 28 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.079 diverse group of experts, so you have a range of 29 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:48.879 well basically so you have a large catalog to choose from, 30 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:51.760 and so your enrollment is going to benefit you now 31 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.200 by allowing you to participate in the study, but it's 32 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.799 also going to allow us to continue to move in 33 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:59.200 this direction. And you can find the link to Josh's 34 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.959 course in the show, and his standard price for this 35 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:05.439 course is only fifty dollars, which is very low already 36 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:07.920 for this kind of investment on his part, and Mythic 37 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.840 Mind patrons get a fifty percent discount on top of that, 38 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:14.599 bringing it down to just twenty five dollars for entire 39 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.719 course on Paradise Lost, that's insane. And so whether you 40 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:20.840 are able to actively participate in the discord and live meetings, 41 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.159 or you just want to have access to the material 42 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.960 to work through on your own time, by somebody who's 43 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.240 spent time with the text, somebody who loves the text 44 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.360 and who's able to share that value with you. Then 45 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:33.599 this is just it's a steal for twenty five dollars 46 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:35.520 or fifty dollars if you're not a patron, and so 47 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.319 go ahead and take advantage of that deal right now, 48 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.199 Go ahead and do that that way he knows to 49 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.879 expect you. Now, one more thing before we get started, 50 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.639 I have to mention the exciting release of the remastered Oblivion. 51 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:50.560 I'm a big fan of the Elder Scrolls series, specifically Morowind, 52 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.599 Oblivion and Skyrm. Spend a little bit time, like literally 53 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:56.120 like a few hours with the online game that just 54 00:02:56.240 --> 00:03:00.400 didn't do it for me. But as with many others particular, 55 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.560 this Oblivion remastering is a really big deal for me. 56 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:07.960 Now I haven't actually played it yet because I'm being disciplined, 57 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:10.080 waiting for the semester to end in just a bit, 58 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:12.840 waiting for my ad money to come in, which is 59 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.039 my budget for such things. But this game, it looks 60 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.319 amazing and most players seem to have agreed. Well, this 61 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.159 is really good timing as later this year I'm leading 62 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:24.599 a course on the Elder Scrolls and philosophy, and is 63 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.319 this really works out here? This is a great opportunity. 64 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.400 This course is a great opportunity to demonstrate how a 65 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:33.560 medium such as video games, especially when they are done well, 66 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.599 can actually be an aid in the quest for wisdom 67 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.159 rather than a hindrance, which is, I mean, frankly, what 68 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:41.120 they often are, but they don't need to be. And 69 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.919 that's part of the thesis that I'm putting forward here. 70 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.240 This study will be a fun time, it should be 71 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:49.000 a meaningful time. Now. Ever, since I came up with 72 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.080 this idea, I've been toying around with whether or not 73 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.759 it should be six weeks or eight weeks, which is 74 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.680 why you may have seen some conflicting information. But I'm 75 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.919 currently leaning toward making it eight weeks to give some 76 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:05.039 special attention to Oblivion related content in light of this 77 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.879 new release. Now, enrollment numbers will help me to make 78 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.280 that decision more concrete to make of that eight weeks, 79 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:13.439 And so if you are interested, then please head over 80 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.319 right now to patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind and 81 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.519 check out the shop and enroll in the Elder Scrolls 82 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.879 in Philosophy or become a Tier three annual patron and 83 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.000 then I'll give you access to all courses that begin 84 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.360 in your term. And so that's currently a brief history 85 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.000 of ideas plato Stoicism until we have faces the Elder 86 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:33.600 Scrolls in Philosophy, and then at the beginning of twenty 87 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:37.040 twenty six we have the Silmarillion. It does four courses 88 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:40.079 for one discounted price, and at the time that this 89 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.120 is being posted, I've even upped that discount all the 90 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.600 way up to twenty percent for the annual annual patronage. 91 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:48.360 And again that gives you access to all its courses 92 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:50.959 and everything else Mythic Mind has to offer, and that 93 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:53.439 is a good deal. And by the way, if you 94 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.199 decide to do that now and renew next year, your 95 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.519 renewal price, I believe is actually going to be the 96 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.759 same as what you purchase on a disc count, and 97 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:02.920 so you can lock in that price. And definitely if 98 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:04.720 you go ahead and do that now, well you still 99 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.560 have the maximum discount. And also, as reminder, patrons of 100 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.279 Mythic Mind get fifty percent off the cost of courses 101 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.680 from other Fellowship creators. So there's there's a lot of 102 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:15.879 value packed into this, So go ahead and do that. 103 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.040 But for now, let's go ahead and jump into our 104 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:23.959 final conversation on the poetic Eda. All right, welcome back 105 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.360 to our final at a chat joined here with Thomas 106 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.000 and Chase to go through the last several texts here, 107 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.439 starting with the wedding of Gudrun, and so as a 108 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:38.120 review of where we've been recently, at least we've covered 109 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:39.879 a lot of ground obviously going through the Edda. But 110 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.480 you know, Gudrun is the widow of Ziggurd, who is 111 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.920 really the probably the the central figure of the vul 112 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:52.040 Song story. He's the one who killed the dragon Faffnir 113 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.600 and liberated the gold, which you know, as a dragon 114 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.120 horde it tends to do it carries a doom about it. 115 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.079 And so no matter what Ziggerd does, you know, in 116 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.240 his acts of valor, his bravery's heroism, there's always just 117 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.639 sort of this shadow over his life, very much giving 118 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:13.399 his connections with turn turnbar special helmet everything, so very 119 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:20.079 strong connections there. Well, Ziggard, after liberating this treasure from 120 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:26.959 the dragon, he gets betrothed to his valkyrie lover Brinheld, 121 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:32.120 but he's bewitched along the way forgets about her. Mauryes 122 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:36.120 Gudrun Brinhield doesn't forget about it, and so eventually she 123 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.439 conspires with Gudrun's brothers to have them kill off Ziggard, 124 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.399 and so then Gudrun goes off to the court of Atli, 125 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:47.519 where she marries Atli, who either is or leases inspired 126 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:52.519 by Attila the hun. But then she after killing her 127 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:57.240 children with Ally and then killing Ali, now she finds 128 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.519 herself in another court, married to another kid. So she 129 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.720 is now in her third court. Here. You think that 130 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.120 people would get the message here and maybe stop taking 131 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:11.759 her in, but here we are. And so while she's here, 132 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.839 she does have with her her daughter of Ziggurd, and 133 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.040 so her daughter is really the last direct tie to 134 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:24.040 the Volsung clan. But she gets married off to this 135 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:30.639 king see which she married Yorman Reck the Powerful. But 136 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:34.560 this guy Beki comes to his court and tells Randver, 137 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.399 the son of the king, that basically there's something going 138 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:43.480 on between zvon Hild and Randford the Prince, and so 139 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:47.000 then the king responds by having Randverord hanged and swan 140 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.759 Hild tramped by horses. So naturally good and doesn't take 141 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:53.560 too kindly to this. And so now she's gonna tell 142 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:59.040 her children of with with King Yonaker to basically go 143 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:02.120 off and get vengeance. And so that's kind of where 144 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:06.839 we are in the story moving into this poem. All right, 145 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:10.759 So what are your thoughts? Were some things that stood 146 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.519 out to you about the wedding of Gudrun. 147 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:18.680 One thing that set out to me in the beginning 148 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.279 was how reluctant the two sons were to go on 149 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:27.000 this vengeance mission. And they basically are like, Mom, you 150 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.600 know that you're asking us to essentially go on a 151 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.960 suicide mission and get killed. Right, you won't have any 152 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:36.159 kids left when we're done. 153 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:40.879 With this, right. And before that, they really dig in 154 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.879 that if you didn't kill off your last kids, and 155 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.159 maybe they can even help you with this, like we'd 156 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.759 have some more support here, but you've a tendency to 157 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:56.159 pretty cheap with the lives of your sons. Yeah, so 158 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.279 they definitely have this sense of doom about them. Dear, 159 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:07.240 one of these sons says that, let me treat this. Then, 160 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:10.440 said Hamdar, the strong minded one, so comes home to 161 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:12.840 visit his mother. The spear Lord brought low in the 162 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:15.120 land of the Goths, so that you may drink the 163 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:17.960 funeral ale for us, all for span Hild, and for 164 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.519 your sons. So she's saying, like, look, you're going to 165 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.600 lose all of your children if we do this yet 166 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.879 to go anyways, And it just kind of gets at 167 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:32.879 this theme of recognizing one's fate but moving forward anyways. 168 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:35.720 And that's something we've seen pretty repeatedly. 169 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:43.080 So interesting because you know, she, yeah, she loves cigarette 170 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:45.799 so much, and so losing him, it's kind of like 171 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.720 after that, all the kids are forfeit, Like she she 172 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.080 cared about swan Hild, but like everything else, like the 173 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.080 other four boys, it's like, mah, I don't really care. 174 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.559 You're just like tools from my revenge, you know. 175 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:02.919 Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean with the kids that she 176 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.600 had with Atlee, I mean she literally killed them and 177 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:10.000 then fed them to Atlee. And now with these kids 178 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.360 that she has with this third third husband, you know, 179 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.720 now she just has no problem treating them as fodder 180 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.919 to throw at her vengeance, no real concern for them. 181 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:23.720 She only cares about her connection to Ziggard. In fact, 182 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.960 she sounds a lot like Brin Hill toward the end 183 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.360 of her life. When she starts going crazy at the 184 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.799 end when she says, Nobles, build the build high the 185 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.960 oak Wood pire, Let it be the highest among the princes. 186 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.799 They fire, burn up the breast, so full of wrongs, 187 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.000 may sorrows melt about my heart. And so just as 188 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.639 Brent Hill, do you have her at the end, just 189 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.679 falling into despair, I mean, just ready to die, ready 190 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.600 to go up in flames metaphorically as well as literally. 191 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.879 It's very denithor you know, build my pire, you know, 192 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.200 like we shall burn like the Heathen Kings and all 193 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:57.879 that stuff. 194 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:03.639 You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. And of course 195 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:06.440 has gained off response to that that they only did 196 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.559 so because they were under the sway of the Shadow essentially, 197 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.879 that they were you know, inspired by Satan essentially. 198 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.879 I feel like, uh, bicky uh in this like setup, 199 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.200 it's very like low key, like you know, like kind 200 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.440 of just like meddling and kind of like telling them 201 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.440 to like, oh, you're you're actually destined for each other, 202 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.360 and he's like, oops, I'm actually gonna get killed. 203 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.519 Yeah. We don't have a lot of his backstories as 204 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.440 far as what we're given. He definitely seems like just 205 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.840 this trickster type. He just wants to see things burn. 206 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:51.240 Yeah, a good pairing for Google, I would think, right right. 207 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.840 This also seems to be like a common, at least 208 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.879 in these stories, way to execute somebody is to have 209 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.600 them be trampled to death. That's come up a few 210 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.200 times now. 211 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.480 Hmm. 212 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:14.000 Yeah, it's just just like the kind of savage imagery 213 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.559 or just that was the cruelest of all my injuries. 214 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:20.320 When the white blonde hair of span Hill they trampled 215 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:28.559 in mud under her horse's hoofs. It's like, oh man, yeah, 216 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:35.440 I believe Swan Hill like basically like had come to 217 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:38.320 that island on her own, I think, or something, right. 218 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.120 I can't remember what Snory had said about it. It's 219 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.559 been too long since I've read that. It may have 220 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.360 differed slightly. 221 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.440 Yeah, I don't remember Snory's version, I do know, I 222 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.440 mean for Gudrian, after the affair with Atli, after that 223 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.440 went down in flames, then she tried to cast herself 224 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.120 into the ocean, into the sea to kill herself, but 225 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.480 she was providentially prevented from doing so, and so then 226 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.080 she gets carried off to this island. I don't remember. Yeah, 227 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:09.919 I don't remember what story says, but and I mentioned 228 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.600 this last time, it very much reminds me of of 229 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.720 an elo wing. You know, she's got the summer casting 230 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.200 herself into the sea, and then you know the Dallar 231 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.559 protect her, and you know she actually turns into a 232 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.279 bird and flies away, and you know there's a Swan connection. 233 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.879 Even with van Hilt, even like the name, there's that 234 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.080 Swan connection there. And so I feel like it's not 235 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.360 a one to one, but there's definitely some inspiration at 236 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.679 play here for talking. Yeah, it's just I feel like 237 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.000 this is such a I mean, it's such a Norse 238 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.039 tale when we've been with the False Songs for so long, 239 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.120 we've been at this point with Gudrun for so long, 240 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.919 and it just ends in utter despair. Like there's no 241 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:56.519 EU catastrophe here, there's no hope, it's just despair, which 242 00:13:57.879 --> 00:13:59.840 kind of again, it gives me the same feeling you 243 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.320 get at reading Children of Purin once you get to 244 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:02.679 the end. 245 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.240 Yeah, I have the same sort of feeling when I 246 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.919 read the Volsung saga on his own, and I was 247 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:17.159 just like, I don't think I like this. Someone really depressing. 248 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:19.759 I don't think I was. I was in the mood 249 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:21.879 for it a couple of years ago. When I read it, 250 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.120 I was just like, oh, I didn't like any of 251 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.639 the characters. I'm like, they're just all miserable and getting 252 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:33.600 revenge on one another. I'm like, hmm, maybe George R. R. 253 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:38.440 Martin took some inspiration. Everybody's miserable and killing one another. 254 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.120 Yeah, they're all just these pawns getting moved around essentially. 255 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.440 I mean, you know, in the Volsung saga, it really 256 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:51.600 kicks off with Odin. You're delivering the sword, and then 257 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.679 at the end it's Odin who leads to the death 258 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.159 of the folk songs. Uh So, which is what Odin does. 259 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:00.600 We've talked about this before, how he builds up these 260 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.480 great warriors so that he can kill them off in 261 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.759 battle and then recruit them into his army. Uh And 262 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:10.639 that's really what bookends the main part of the Volsung saga, 263 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.279 that they're just under the whims of the fate, that 264 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.279 are under the whims of Odin, who's just sort of 265 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:21.000 managing the whole situation. And it's there there is just 266 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:23.559 a great deal of despair about that. That is no 267 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.000 ultimate hope that's reaching out to them. Tolkien that most 268 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:30.840 definitely took the northern spirit and baptized it, giving us 269 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:31.639 that threat of hope. 270 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.639 Yeah. I think it's it's interesting with all three the works, 271 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:43.679 the pros at A, the Bolsing Sega, because you kind 272 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.080 of each one you kind of need to read the 273 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.720 other ones, but then you have to start somewhere, and 274 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:50.679 so it's kind of like, okay, well you start with 275 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.399 one and then you can just circle back and read it. 276 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.080 You've read everything else because this is like all the 277 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.279 notes are like, yeah, just check out Bolst. 278 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.279 It's like okay, right, yeah, So I think now like 279 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.720 the only one I I have left to read a 280 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:10.279 story then because I've I've read volsung Saga now this, 281 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.080 and so like that'll like complete the triptych. 282 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.200 Yeah. I definitely feel like returning to the other text 283 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:23.480 now more of it would stick with me. Uh. When 284 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:25.559 you read any of these for the first time, there's 285 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.759 just so much going on, so many names, so many 286 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.320 things happening that things that kind of echo other things 287 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.399 that have happened. It's hard to keep it. Kind of 288 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.679 reading this so early in right, Yeah, hard time through. 289 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.000 It's just you just have to push through and then 290 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.600 you have to go through it again. And more of 291 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:39.440 it will settle down. 292 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.600 I was talking to my brother, He's gonna start reading 293 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.039 some early and I'm like, all right, man, the first 294 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.559 two chapters you just gotta push through. I was like, 295 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.720 it's gonna make sense at the end. You can always 296 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.720 flip back. But when they're just listening out names and 297 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.120 here people are, You're like, okay, that that doesn't mean 298 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:02.000 anything until. 299 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:02.720 It's like I tell people, if you've read the Lord 300 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.200 of the Rings and then you read the silm Merillion, 301 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:06.839 what you do is that you go back and read 302 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.839 Lord of the Rings again, because then all of those 303 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:13.200 references to the Silmarillion that are scattered throughout Lord of 304 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.880 the Rings, you'll have context for all of that, and 305 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.759 you'll be like, oh my gosh, that's referring to And 306 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.200 then it kind of makes reading Lord of the Rings 307 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.319 again so much of a richer experience. 308 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.920 Yeah, I can testified to that. It really is like 309 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.400 reading it almost for the first time again, that you 310 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:39.799 get so much more context out of that reading absolutely well. 311 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.319 It's not a big change in content here, but looking 312 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.880 over at the lay of Humdir, it starts off the 313 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:48.920 same way as the other poem, and basically the only 314 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:51.960 major difference is now it's going to continue on and 315 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.240 give us the the vengeance story of the Suns going 316 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:01.440 off to this king. Yes, it's basically the context here. 317 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.039 Anything in particular stand to you about this one. 318 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.039 Oh, this is the one where they kill their their 319 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:16.119 step brother or something by accident or maybe not by accident. 320 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.480 It wasn't that clear to me whether they knew who 321 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.240 he was or not. 322 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.240 Yeah, I think this is another one where Larrington, the 323 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.799 translator basically says some of it's kind of confusing, kind 324 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:33.599 of broken, sometimes probably missing. Uh, but yeah, because this 325 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.240 this guy, let's see who is it? 326 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:36.960 Ip? 327 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.640 I think that their half brother what a name? 328 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:40.240 Uh? 329 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.440 Think across that their half brother irp on the road, 330 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:49.079 who gives them some enigmatic wisdom, and they respond by 331 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:54.519 killing them for some reason, not entirely sure why, but 332 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.240 later they recognized that he was giving them the wisdom 333 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.759 that they needed to have in order to action secure 334 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.079 vengeance against the king. There's like, boops, I guess we 335 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:08.400 shouldn't have killed him. And I suppose there's a lesson 336 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:13.440 built in here about not being rash about stopping to 337 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:18.400 listen before acting so differently, some some kind of proverbial 338 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.599 wisdom built into this. But but yeah, not really clear 339 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:22.559 why they killed her. 340 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:28.240 That ties back to Hockney and uh, I already forgot 341 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:35.759 the names guthm uh No, it's uh Gunner and Hockey, right. Yeah. 342 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.680 They don't listen to their wives, who are like telling 343 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.759 them they each have bad dreams and I'm like describing 344 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.079 what the dream is meaning for you, and you're like, 345 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.759 I don't know. I think I'm gonna go ahead, and 346 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:52.880 it's just like, what are you doing? 347 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:57.839 Right? They basically say women say a lot of things, 348 00:19:58.720 --> 00:19:59.200 just go. 349 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.400 You have quite an imagination there, honey, I'm gonna go 350 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:06.319 get slaughtered. 351 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:12.079 So yeah, I mean it kind of makes sense that 352 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:14.160 there are a lot of lessons in here about not 353 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.400 being impulsive, because a lot of people are just very impulsive. 354 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.599 They just do stuff right, like I've been dishonored, so 355 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.160 I'm going to go secure vengeance. It's like they don't 356 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:24.759 stop and think through what they're doing or even how 357 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.799 exactly to secure vengeance in the best way, like to 358 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:28.880 actually do what they want. 359 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:29.000 That. 360 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:33.160 They're very impulsive, and so there's definitely a lesson regarding 361 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:38.640 that built into this that they actually you know, burst 362 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:45.559 into this king's home and they cut off his feet 363 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:50.480 in his hands, but he's still able to use his 364 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.640 speech because they have some kind of magic about them 365 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.400 where they can only being stoned. 366 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.680 Yeah, the notes talk about this they had, I guess, 367 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.359 I don't know if it was from Sigurd. They had 368 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:12.359 a basically like magic mythril chain bl basically, and so 369 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.839 they couldn't be stabbed or heard or anything with those 370 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:20.200 with those on, but they could be stoned. I think 371 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.720 attention here because it kind of just gives like a 372 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.759 blip of like their interaction with the brother r I think, 373 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.000 And I think it's fulsome sega. It's a little more 374 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.319 like as like drawn out, I guess, and it shows 375 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.039 that he's like they think he's being arrogant or something, 376 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.799 and so they're just like, oh, we're gonna we don't 377 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:40.200 need you. 378 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.759 Oh yeah, he says here and stands at thirteen, you know, 379 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.519 he Herp's talking to them, and then it just says 380 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.480 they said that bastard was very bold, so they just 381 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.319 miss him as a bastard. Go away, stop talking to us, 382 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:55.640 you know. 383 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.200 Proverb in that same stanza, it's no good showing the 384 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:04.480 way to a cowardly man. 385 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:11.640 Hmmm, sounds like a very Norse proverb. 386 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:13.759 It does like a very Norse proverb. 387 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.960 Yes, Like it seems like their downfall was they you know, 388 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.200 like you said, they still left the king the ability 389 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.480 to speak, and I guess he cries out what their 390 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.920 weakness is, and so they get stoned to death. 391 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.480 Right, Whereas apparently if they picked up on whatever Earp 392 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.960 was telling them, they would have known to cut off 393 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:39.640 his head so he couldn't talk. 394 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.160 Yeah, they say, evil, you brought about brother when you 395 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.559 opened up that bag. For often from the bag comes 396 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.200 bad advice, from which they mean, you shouldn't have killed 397 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.759 that guy, because yeah, important information. 398 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:55.160 Right. 399 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.720 So they're like blaming each other as soon as things 400 00:22:58.759 --> 00:22:59.200 go wrong. 401 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.160