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Speaker 1: Good morning. How are you doing today, Sarah?

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Speaker 2: Good morning, DJ Arrow? How do I call you Arrow?

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Speaker 1: Yes, sir, Yes, sir, it's a man.

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Speaker 2: How did you get that nickname?

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Speaker 1: What did you do? It's a man thing? Come on

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in radio. What I wanted to do is I wanted

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to be able to scand out at the Casey case

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and Wolfman Jack. All these people had really cool names,

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and the name Clarence just didn't really work for me.

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Speaker 2: Well, so if I say good morning, Clarence, you'll shut

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me right off, don't you worry.

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Speaker 1: I will sit up straight in a heartbeat and say, yes,

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sir to write a book like this, because I mean,

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I love the idea that you're breaking it down. Because

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we have the men of sports, we have the men

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of of you know, people who love to read. Men

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are just so They're like chameleons. They change constantly, And

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I often wonder how can women even trust what it

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is that we.

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Speaker 2: Do absolutely because we are we are so different from

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man to man in our subtleties and our nuances. But

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if you take the big picture, if you just pull

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back a little bit, we are so similar all us.

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We have very very similar traits, which is why I

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think you put a bunch of guys in a fraternity house,

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within a couple of days, they're all going to be

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getting along just fine. Everybody will have a nickname, everybody

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will have their place in the society because we all

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understand each other. We know where we came from, we

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know who we are, we know where we're going.

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Speaker 1: That's so funny that you bring that out, because I

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think that even the workplace is that way, because you know,

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everybody takes their position and if you challenge it, okay,

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then that's part of the game of business. But this

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is a very wise book for men as well as women.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for saying so. I tried

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to observe and see things about myself, and then I

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was checking them out with my friends. So, for instance,

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the way men fall in love very very simple. We

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fall in love with the face first and everything else afterwards.

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And that is the nature of us. And I tell

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the story I was at an Askap dinner many many

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years ago and Stevie Wonder and his handler came in

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and the handler had to use the bathroom. I'd known

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them other places, and he says to me, Hey, would

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you mind sitting with Stevie for a couple of minutes

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while I use the John. So it's just me and

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Stevie wonder alone in a ballroom with I don't know

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sixteen hundred people getting ready for their awards. Me and

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him at this table, and all the girls and women

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I knew at the event. They start looking at me

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and holding up their phones like can I take a picture?

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The picture? And I lean over to Stevie and I say, hey,

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there's a lot of women would love to get a

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picture with you. Would that be okay? And he leans

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back He says, just tell me what they look like. Yeah,

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And I was like, holy what this is A blind

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man needs to know that they're beautiful. So as these

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girls come up, I'm like, Okay, this is a redhead,

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super cute. She'd be she'd be a movie star if

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she were not in the music business. And so I'm

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going on and find like the sixth one. He goes, many,

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can't all be that beautiful? I said, Stevie. Stevie, next

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to you they are?

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Speaker 1: So what is the one thing that you learned from

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doing this project? Because I mean, I can't imagine how

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much editing you went through, because it's like Okay, how

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much do I cross the line? Because you know, there's

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got to be a code of silence here when it

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comes to man. I.

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Speaker 2: Of course, because I don't want a wife or a

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girlfriend to read this book and then straight, you know,

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run into the living room where the guy's hanging out

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with his mates and go, you jerk. This book says

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you're a such and such, because it's not. That's not

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the secrets I'm revealing. I don't reveal everything about us,

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but some of the things about us. For instance, I

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say I discussed the fact that we love forever. You

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can turn to any man and say, okay, who is

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the first girl you fell in love with? And he

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will tell you both her names and what she looked

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like as she was getting in it out of her

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mother's car, because this probably happened in fourth or fifth

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grade anyway. But we still love that girl. Not we

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don't want to get together with her now, don't want

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to know her now. We still love the girl that

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was way back when. It's part of our our our

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total recapture of our innocence and to stay in touch

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with it as we grow older and older.

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Speaker 1: I still know Sandy's out phone number, I really do.

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And I can't shake that phone number. And that was

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way back in the early part of that when I

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was the latter part of the seventies.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful and you still know both her names right and everything?

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Speaker 1: Yep, I sure do.

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Speaker 2: Right. We don't want to get we don't want to

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know her now. I mean i'd say hi. So, for instance,

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I have a I do a reunion with all the

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girls and boys I went to first grade with. Oh,

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and it's the first Saturday in August. I've been doing

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it for twenty years and these these people show up

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and I'm like, oh my god, I'm so glad I

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still know you because I remember being in love with

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you way back when I remember it. It's part of

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my part of my story, part of my journey was

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being in love with Katinka Carrotsni in fifth grade.

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Speaker 1: I Katinka, what about guys though? That really loved the

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sound of I don't want to call it sternness, but

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focus from a woman in the way because there's two

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things my wife have said to me in the past

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thirty three years that to continue to live inside of me.

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Number one, don't give me your dj ego crap. I

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know people more famous than you, and I thought, damn,

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that's hot. That's hot. And then she says, I knew

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what you were when I picked you up. Let's just

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work on this.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, how fantastic. So I believe that we change

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very badly. I think that once we hit fourteen, we're

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kind of done. You're taking the cookies, You're taking the

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cookies out of the oven, and that's what those cookies

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are like. So you can do tiny things like hey, honey,

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would you straighten your tie? But don't turn us into

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vegetarians or change our religion or none of the big things.

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Just leave those alone and let us be who we

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are because we will be happy and we will be

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better partners for you, our whole lives. We don't change well.

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So this is a a something I've put into all

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my into all my relationships.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to that change, I keep a daily

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what I call a defrag journal, where I ask myself

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the questions and then question the answer is because I

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fear grumpy old man syndrome. I do not want to

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be that guy.

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Speaker 2: Don't let the old man in retain your childlike wonder

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at everything, and never let anybody take that away from you.

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You know, and whatever makes you gasp today, let it

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make you gasp every day of your life. If that's

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a guy hitting a home run, or I was explaining

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to my wife this morning as we took the subway

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up here, there's this thing called subway love, where you

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you know, you sit across the subway aisle from some

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beautiful girl and you know you're never going to forget her, right.

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You know that this this image will be in your

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life the rest of your life. That's the James Blunt

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song which I signed, You're Beautiful. Yeah, it's just who

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we are. We fall in love with the face first

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and everything else after, and that's part of the childlike

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wonder that is who we are. Are.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, you talk about the face. I got to

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tell you it was the bright green blouse that my

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wife was wearing in nineteen ninety two, and it was like, I,

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to this day, I own that. Even though she says,

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you got to throw it away, said the hell, I'm

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throwing that thing away. I love that blouse so much

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because that was my first step into a brand new beginning.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's so beautiful. One of the essays I wrote

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is women marry men they hope to change, and men

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hope the women they marry never change, but they did.

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They do. There's the green blouse, as you're like, no,

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this is it's not because it's a green blouse. By

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the way, you had to look up from the blouse

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and see her gorgeous face, which I'm sure it was,

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of course. And that's where you fell into the pit,

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the whole, the channel, the tunnel of love, that from

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which you've never emerged. You're very, very fortunate to have that.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Tom Sturgis coming

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up next. The name of his book, Men explained. Finally

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we're back with Tom Sturgis. Let me ask you a question.

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What about the guys? And I can't be a hopeless

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romantic here, but I knew that even during my first marriage,

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I was not married to the right person because as

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a child I always saw myself with a brunette in

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my dreams everything. So when I first saw Lee, I'm going,

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holy crap, this is it. This is who I've been

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waiting for my entire life, and and it we're at

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thirty three years.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Well you're such a fortunate guy. I mean, this

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is one of the things I talk about is how

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fate and luck our two best friends when it comes

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to our relationships and our romances. We believe fate brought

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us to that person, and then we need just a

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little bit of luck to get that person to look

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back at us and notice us. Because women don't need

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gorgeous I don't think that's what I don't think that's

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what motivates them. And if a guy's too good looking,

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they're like, every girl's going to hit on him, or

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he's gay, whereas if we're if they just they see

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a guy who responds to their heart and and their

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needs and their wishes, which most of us do. I

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talk about the fact that if you ask a man nicely,

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he'll do almost anything. Yep, right, And I recommend to women,

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when you're dealing with your man, even if you're incredibly

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upset with him, just whisper yea, no matter how bad

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it is, like you forgot the tickets, or you left

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her mother at the dry cleaners or whatever, and she

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just says, why is my mother still at the dry cleaner?

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And you're like, oh god, oh shoot, sorry, and you

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jump in the car and you and you run over there.

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You don't need to be yelled that, just tell me

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really gently and I'll take care of everything. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But why is it when men get older we kind

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of go the caveman route when something that we that

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kind of makes us feel a little uncomfortable, But the

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first thing we do is go and it's like people

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understand that.

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Speaker 2: The grunt. I might have to write an addendum about

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the grunt because I didn't write about that. But one

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thing that we do is the use I talk about

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the difference on the use of the term I know,

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so when women. When women use the term I know,

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it usually means please stop talking. So if you say honey,

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it's such as I know, okay, that means shut up.

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And if she says it, I know, I know it

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means I really need you to shut up now. And

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if she does it three times, I know, I know,

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I know it means. What it really means is I'm

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looking for a place to hide this meat cleaver and

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it might be in your head. Whereas when we say

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I know, it usually means I'm thinking. So they say, hey,

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do you know where we're You know where we're going

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right now? You know you're driving the car, Like, do

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you know where we're going? To go I know. That

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means I'm thinking. And if we go I know, I know,

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like we use it twice and ago it goes, I

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really don't know. And if we say I know, I know,

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I know, it means I have no idea. But that's

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the difference between men and women and how we use

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that phrase. So the grunt is the same as I know,

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it means I don't know.

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Speaker 1: On the calendar, I'm sixty three, but inside my heart,

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I'm seventeen. I will never ever leave that kid behind.

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And that's the reason why I've been in radio for

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forty six years, because I don't have the guts to

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tell that seventeen year old it's over.

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Speaker 2: And I hope you never do. Hope, I hope you

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never do. Ro Oh, I hope it's always there because

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this is this is your motivation and your drive every

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day is to get the money. I want to have

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the most fun out of every day. This is why

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we golf, This is why we right, This is why

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we call our old friends from you know, from childhood,

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and hey, remember when we did this, and remember what

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we did that. We are reliving and re energizing, recharging

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the battery of our childhood, because that we hope is

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extending into our lives every moment, every day where kids

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we want to have that happiness and that joy approaching

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the next day and the next day and the next day.

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That's who we are.

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Speaker 1: Was the creation of the man Cave, a Beatles moment

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for men.

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Speaker 2: The man Cave. We still love our forts, We still

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have our forts. We call it the music room, we

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call it the studio. My friend Bill heres gug is

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his is the train room. It's whatever it is. It's

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where we felt safe as kids and where we feel

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childlike as adults.

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Speaker 1: What are you leaving behind as a legacy? Because my

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parents left no writing And I'm kind of disappointed about

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that because I love people's penmanship and I love holding

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onto paper like that. What are you personally leaving behind ideas?

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Speaker 2: Oh God, because an idea is so easy to give.

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A give to the next guy. Yeah, you know. Just

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and so hopefully my sixteen year old, when he's a

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little bit older and he goes, I wonder who the

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hell my dad really was, and he wants to read

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this book, he will go, oh wait a second, he

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was a child, He was his whole stink in life

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I'm going to I want to and manage to get

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married and have kids and have a career and have

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a you know, extraordinary life, I gotta say. But at

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the center of me, I'm still the same boy I

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was when I was fourteen.

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Speaker 1: What about guys who lean on this for a crutch.

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I was thinking about something today and all of it

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that's a total setup to me, And I often wonder

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what how people receive that.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand your question?

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Speaker 1: In other words, like how many times have you been

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in a situation where somebody comes up to you very

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calmly and says, I've been thinking about something today. And

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usually when program directors would say that to me, admitt,

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let's go to the room, we're gonna air check you today.

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We're going to change the way that you're sounding on

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the radio today.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't think we change. Well, I think

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that's that's us. Our worst is changing, you know, because

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we we're barely who we are if you think about it.

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We are a patch work quilt of motivations and possibilities

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and hopes and dreams and ideals. But this is this

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is like a you know, when you go to the

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circus and the guy has got the ten plates and

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they're all on a stick. And that's us. We got

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ten plates, and there's one of us is us the dead,

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and another is us the husband, and another is us

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the guy who's supposed to be mowing the lawn. But

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that's how we are, and we're just just trying to

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keep it all together. So we can't be changing if

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somebody comes along and goes, oh, you know, I want

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to change that middle plate to a dinner plate. No, no, no,

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we can't. I can't do that. I can I'm barely

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spinning the other nine plates.

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Speaker 1: How do women handle the fact that guys like to

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talk to.

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Speaker 2: Themselves sometimes there's nobody else to talk to.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, at least that person will listen sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes or sometimes you can. You know, that little voice

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inside your head will just say, hey, why don't you

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shut up now, and you go, oh, yeah, sorry, sorry,

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my bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Because men are masters at storing things away. And

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the thing is, and I think that's one of the

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reasons why I'm a daily writer, because I don't want

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somebody to come back and say this is based on

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only half the truth, what really happened here? I'm going, well,

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in the daily writing. I'm telling you it is the truth.

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So let's go visit the books.

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Speaker 2: So one of my beliefs, in one of our I

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call it our first line of defense, is our ability

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to compartmentalize, where we take our life and we put

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it into thousands of little boxes and store them away.

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So there's a box up on a shelf somewhere that's

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all the good things you've ever done, and you keep

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that nice and handy, so if somebody needs a story

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about you, you have those. But there's another box with

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all the terrible things you should have never said that

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you did say. And I think our ability to compartmentalize

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is how we survive, honestly, because if everything was out

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there every moment of every day, it would be so

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overwhelming we wouldn't be able to get through that day.

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So that's where I see that that we box it up,

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put it away, so you can have an argument with

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a coworker all day long and then he says, hey,

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we're playing poker tonight. You're like, yeah, sure, let's go,

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and you take it out of that box, put it away,

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and put it in another box and just go have

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a great time with that person. See that you do

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our survival.

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Speaker 1: That's the reason why I always tell people I am

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the greatest actor I will ever meet, because I can

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play in any role you can.

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Speaker 2: You pull out that box and you're that guy. Right

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when you have to go speak at a funeral, I mean,

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that's not who we are. That is a part we're playing, right,

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Or when you have to discipline your child, I mean,

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that's a terrible role to play, but sometimes there's nobody

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else to play it. You open that box, you look,

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oh God, do I have to do this? And there

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you go when you go, kid, this is what you

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did wrong. And this is the punishment in all your studies.

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Speaker 1: When when should a man and the person that he's

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with a woman really face that wall. That's about the

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Swedish death cleaning, where it's time to throw things away

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and let's get things set up for the latter part

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of our chapters.

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Speaker 2: As soon as possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So my theory and this has gotten me. I

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get a lot more done with this is I do

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it when I think of it. So for instance, I'm

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walking on the goal of course, and I see a

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potato chip bag that blew out of somebody's cart, I

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will get out. I will walk over and pick it

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up and put it in my pocket and take it away

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right then. Yep, I will not see. And if I

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have an idea for a piece of music, or a

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book chapter or anything else, I write it down right

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then so that it never disappears, usually just heading. But

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I do it when I think of it, and that

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keeps me moving forward without a bunch of trailing dingleberries

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of things I should have done and want to do

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and hope to get to.

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Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about everything

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that you do? Because I love your connection to the

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human spirit as well as the world of creativity.

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Speaker 2: You know what these you're bringing tears to my eyes.

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Speaker 1: Arrow.

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Speaker 2: I love the compliment, and I thank you so much.

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And I write in my book that men need praise.

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Women like compliments. Men need praise, and what you just

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said is praise to me, So thank you. People can

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find me anywhere. It's a tomster just dot net is

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my website, and I there's a mail I reach out

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to tom thing there and uh, that's probably a good

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place to start it. And this book and all my

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books are available on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: Well you got to come back to this show anytime

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in the future. Tom. I love sharing a conversation with.

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Speaker 2: You, Arrow, What a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your

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morning with me, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?

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Speaker 2: Okay, sir, I'm taking that. That's mine. I'm taking that.

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Be brilliant today. That could be a book.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I challenge you.

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Speaker 2: Now, okay, I'm writing it down.

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Speaker 1: Have fun, guy by now have your weekend. Arrow. Thanks Bill,