Speaker 1: Good morning. How are you doing today, Sarah?
Speaker 2: Good morning, DJ Arrow? How do I call you Arrow?
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, Yes, sir, it's a man.
Speaker 2: How did you get that nickname?
Speaker 1: What did you do? It's a man thing? Come on
in radio. What I wanted to do is I wanted
to be able to scand out at the Casey case
and Wolfman Jack. All these people had really cool names,
and the name Clarence just didn't really work for me.
Speaker 2: Well, so if I say good morning, Clarence, you'll shut
me right off, don't you worry.
Speaker 1: I will sit up straight in a heartbeat and say, yes,
sir to write a book like this, because I mean,
I love the idea that you're breaking it down. Because
we have the men of sports, we have the men
of of you know, people who love to read. Men
are just so They're like chameleons. They change constantly, And
I often wonder how can women even trust what it
is that we.
Speaker 2: Do absolutely because we are we are so different from
man to man in our subtleties and our nuances. But
if you take the big picture, if you just pull
back a little bit, we are so similar all us.
We have very very similar traits, which is why I
think you put a bunch of guys in a fraternity house,
within a couple of days, they're all going to be
getting along just fine. Everybody will have a nickname, everybody
will have their place in the society because we all
understand each other. We know where we came from, we
know who we are, we know where we're going.
Speaker 1: That's so funny that you bring that out, because I
think that even the workplace is that way, because you know,
everybody takes their position and if you challenge it, okay,
then that's part of the game of business. But this
is a very wise book for men as well as women.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for saying so. I tried
to observe and see things about myself, and then I
was checking them out with my friends. So, for instance,
the way men fall in love very very simple. We
fall in love with the face first and everything else afterwards.
And that is the nature of us. And I tell
the story I was at an Askap dinner many many
years ago and Stevie Wonder and his handler came in
and the handler had to use the bathroom. I'd known
them other places, and he says to me, Hey, would
you mind sitting with Stevie for a couple of minutes
while I use the John. So it's just me and
Stevie wonder alone in a ballroom with I don't know
sixteen hundred people getting ready for their awards. Me and
him at this table, and all the girls and women
I knew at the event. They start looking at me
and holding up their phones like can I take a picture?
The picture? And I lean over to Stevie and I say, hey,
there's a lot of women would love to get a
picture with you. Would that be okay? And he leans
back He says, just tell me what they look like. Yeah,
And I was like, holy what this is A blind
man needs to know that they're beautiful. So as these
girls come up, I'm like, Okay, this is a redhead,
super cute. She'd be she'd be a movie star if
she were not in the music business. And so I'm
going on and find like the sixth one. He goes, many,
can't all be that beautiful? I said, Stevie. Stevie, next
to you they are?
Speaker 1: So what is the one thing that you learned from
doing this project? Because I mean, I can't imagine how
much editing you went through, because it's like Okay, how
much do I cross the line? Because you know, there's
got to be a code of silence here when it
comes to man. I.
Speaker 2: Of course, because I don't want a wife or a
girlfriend to read this book and then straight, you know,
run into the living room where the guy's hanging out
with his mates and go, you jerk. This book says
you're a such and such, because it's not. That's not
the secrets I'm revealing. I don't reveal everything about us,
but some of the things about us. For instance, I
say I discussed the fact that we love forever. You
can turn to any man and say, okay, who is
the first girl you fell in love with? And he
will tell you both her names and what she looked
like as she was getting in it out of her
mother's car, because this probably happened in fourth or fifth
grade anyway. But we still love that girl. Not we
don't want to get together with her now, don't want
to know her now. We still love the girl that
was way back when. It's part of our our our
total recapture of our innocence and to stay in touch
with it as we grow older and older.
Speaker 1: I still know Sandy's out phone number, I really do.
And I can't shake that phone number. And that was
way back in the early part of that when I
was the latter part of the seventies.
Speaker 2: Beautiful and you still know both her names right and everything?
Speaker 1: Yep, I sure do.
Speaker 2: Right. We don't want to get we don't want to
know her now. I mean i'd say hi. So, for instance,
I have a I do a reunion with all the
girls and boys I went to first grade with. Oh,
and it's the first Saturday in August. I've been doing
it for twenty years and these these people show up
and I'm like, oh my god, I'm so glad I
still know you because I remember being in love with
you way back when I remember it. It's part of
my part of my story, part of my journey was
being in love with Katinka Carrotsni in fifth grade.
Speaker 1: I Katinka, what about guys though? That really loved the
sound of I don't want to call it sternness, but
focus from a woman in the way because there's two
things my wife have said to me in the past
thirty three years that to continue to live inside of me.
Number one, don't give me your dj ego crap. I
know people more famous than you, and I thought, damn,
that's hot. That's hot. And then she says, I knew
what you were when I picked you up. Let's just
work on this.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, how fantastic. So I believe that we change
very badly. I think that once we hit fourteen, we're
kind of done. You're taking the cookies, You're taking the
cookies out of the oven, and that's what those cookies
are like. So you can do tiny things like hey, honey,
would you straighten your tie? But don't turn us into
vegetarians or change our religion or none of the big things.
Just leave those alone and let us be who we
are because we will be happy and we will be
better partners for you, our whole lives. We don't change well.
So this is a a something I've put into all
my into all my relationships.
Speaker 1: When it comes to that change, I keep a daily
what I call a defrag journal, where I ask myself
the questions and then question the answer is because I
fear grumpy old man syndrome. I do not want to
be that guy.
Speaker 2: Don't let the old man in retain your childlike wonder
at everything, and never let anybody take that away from you.
You know, and whatever makes you gasp today, let it
make you gasp every day of your life. If that's
a guy hitting a home run, or I was explaining
to my wife this morning as we took the subway
up here, there's this thing called subway love, where you
you know, you sit across the subway aisle from some
beautiful girl and you know you're never going to forget her, right.
You know that this this image will be in your
life the rest of your life. That's the James Blunt
song which I signed, You're Beautiful. Yeah, it's just who
we are. We fall in love with the face first
and everything else after, and that's part of the childlike
wonder that is who we are. Are.
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, you talk about the face. I got to
tell you it was the bright green blouse that my
wife was wearing in nineteen ninety two, and it was like, I,
to this day, I own that. Even though she says,
you got to throw it away, said the hell, I'm
throwing that thing away. I love that blouse so much
because that was my first step into a brand new beginning.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so beautiful. One of the essays I wrote
is women marry men they hope to change, and men
hope the women they marry never change, but they did.
They do. There's the green blouse, as you're like, no,
this is it's not because it's a green blouse. By
the way, you had to look up from the blouse
and see her gorgeous face, which I'm sure it was,
of course. And that's where you fell into the pit,
the whole, the channel, the tunnel of love, that from
which you've never emerged. You're very, very fortunate to have that.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Tom Sturgis coming
up next. The name of his book, Men explained. Finally
we're back with Tom Sturgis. Let me ask you a question.
What about the guys? And I can't be a hopeless
romantic here, but I knew that even during my first marriage,
I was not married to the right person because as
a child I always saw myself with a brunette in
my dreams everything. So when I first saw Lee, I'm going,
holy crap, this is it. This is who I've been
waiting for my entire life, and and it we're at
thirty three years.
Speaker 2: Wow. Well you're such a fortunate guy. I mean, this
is one of the things I talk about is how
fate and luck our two best friends when it comes
to our relationships and our romances. We believe fate brought
us to that person, and then we need just a
little bit of luck to get that person to look
back at us and notice us. Because women don't need
gorgeous I don't think that's what I don't think that's
what motivates them. And if a guy's too good looking,
they're like, every girl's going to hit on him, or
he's gay, whereas if we're if they just they see
a guy who responds to their heart and and their
needs and their wishes, which most of us do. I
talk about the fact that if you ask a man nicely,
he'll do almost anything. Yep, right, And I recommend to women,
when you're dealing with your man, even if you're incredibly
upset with him, just whisper yea, no matter how bad
it is, like you forgot the tickets, or you left
her mother at the dry cleaners or whatever, and she
just says, why is my mother still at the dry cleaner?
And you're like, oh god, oh shoot, sorry, and you
jump in the car and you and you run over there.
You don't need to be yelled that, just tell me
really gently and I'll take care of everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But why is it when men get older we kind
of go the caveman route when something that we that
kind of makes us feel a little uncomfortable, But the
first thing we do is go and it's like people
understand that.
Speaker 2: The grunt. I might have to write an addendum about
the grunt because I didn't write about that. But one
thing that we do is the use I talk about
the difference on the use of the term I know,
so when women. When women use the term I know,
it usually means please stop talking. So if you say honey,
it's such as I know, okay, that means shut up.
And if she says it, I know, I know it
means I really need you to shut up now. And
if she does it three times, I know, I know,
I know it means. What it really means is I'm
looking for a place to hide this meat cleaver and
it might be in your head. Whereas when we say
I know, it usually means I'm thinking. So they say, hey,
do you know where we're You know where we're going
right now? You know you're driving the car, Like, do
you know where we're going? To go I know. That
means I'm thinking. And if we go I know, I know,
like we use it twice and ago it goes, I
really don't know. And if we say I know, I know,
I know, it means I have no idea. But that's
the difference between men and women and how we use
that phrase. So the grunt is the same as I know,
it means I don't know.
Speaker 1: On the calendar, I'm sixty three, but inside my heart,
I'm seventeen. I will never ever leave that kid behind.
And that's the reason why I've been in radio for
forty six years, because I don't have the guts to
tell that seventeen year old it's over.
Speaker 2: And I hope you never do. Hope, I hope you
never do. Ro Oh, I hope it's always there because
this is this is your motivation and your drive every
day is to get the money. I want to have
the most fun out of every day. This is why
we golf, This is why we right, This is why
we call our old friends from you know, from childhood,
and hey, remember when we did this, and remember what
we did that. We are reliving and re energizing, recharging
the battery of our childhood, because that we hope is
extending into our lives every moment, every day where kids
we want to have that happiness and that joy approaching
the next day and the next day and the next day.
That's who we are.
Speaker 1: Was the creation of the man Cave, a Beatles moment
for men.
Speaker 2: The man Cave. We still love our forts, We still
have our forts. We call it the music room, we
call it the studio. My friend Bill heres gug is
his is the train room. It's whatever it is. It's
where we felt safe as kids and where we feel
childlike as adults.
Speaker 1: What are you leaving behind as a legacy? Because my
parents left no writing And I'm kind of disappointed about
that because I love people's penmanship and I love holding
onto paper like that. What are you personally leaving behind ideas?
Speaker 2: Oh God, because an idea is so easy to give.
A give to the next guy. Yeah, you know. Just
and so hopefully my sixteen year old, when he's a
little bit older and he goes, I wonder who the
hell my dad really was, and he wants to read
this book, he will go, oh wait a second, he
was a child, He was his whole stink in life
I'm going to I want to and manage to get
married and have kids and have a career and have
a you know, extraordinary life, I gotta say. But at
the center of me, I'm still the same boy I
was when I was fourteen.
Speaker 1: What about guys who lean on this for a crutch.
I was thinking about something today and all of it
that's a total setup to me, And I often wonder
what how people receive that.
Speaker 2: I don't understand your question?
Speaker 1: In other words, like how many times have you been
in a situation where somebody comes up to you very
calmly and says, I've been thinking about something today. And
usually when program directors would say that to me, admitt,
let's go to the room, we're gonna air check you today.
We're going to change the way that you're sounding on
the radio today.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't think we change. Well, I think
that's that's us. Our worst is changing, you know, because
we we're barely who we are if you think about it.
We are a patch work quilt of motivations and possibilities
and hopes and dreams and ideals. But this is this
is like a you know, when you go to the
circus and the guy has got the ten plates and
they're all on a stick. And that's us. We got
ten plates, and there's one of us is us the dead,
and another is us the husband, and another is us
the guy who's supposed to be mowing the lawn. But
that's how we are, and we're just just trying to
keep it all together. So we can't be changing if
somebody comes along and goes, oh, you know, I want
to change that middle plate to a dinner plate. No, no, no,
we can't. I can't do that. I can I'm barely
spinning the other nine plates.
Speaker 1: How do women handle the fact that guys like to
talk to.
Speaker 2: Themselves sometimes there's nobody else to talk to.
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, at least that person will listen sometimes.
Speaker 2: Sometimes or sometimes you can. You know, that little voice
inside your head will just say, hey, why don't you
shut up now, and you go, oh, yeah, sorry, sorry,
my bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because men are masters at storing things away. And
the thing is, and I think that's one of the
reasons why I'm a daily writer, because I don't want
somebody to come back and say this is based on
only half the truth, what really happened here? I'm going, well,
in the daily writing. I'm telling you it is the truth.
So let's go visit the books.
Speaker 2: So one of my beliefs, in one of our I
call it our first line of defense, is our ability
to compartmentalize, where we take our life and we put
it into thousands of little boxes and store them away.
So there's a box up on a shelf somewhere that's
all the good things you've ever done, and you keep
that nice and handy, so if somebody needs a story
about you, you have those. But there's another box with
all the terrible things you should have never said that
you did say. And I think our ability to compartmentalize
is how we survive, honestly, because if everything was out
there every moment of every day, it would be so
overwhelming we wouldn't be able to get through that day.
So that's where I see that that we box it up,
put it away, so you can have an argument with
a coworker all day long and then he says, hey,
we're playing poker tonight. You're like, yeah, sure, let's go,
and you take it out of that box, put it away,
and put it in another box and just go have
a great time with that person. See that you do
our survival.
Speaker 1: That's the reason why I always tell people I am
the greatest actor I will ever meet, because I can
play in any role you can.
Speaker 2: You pull out that box and you're that guy. Right
when you have to go speak at a funeral, I mean,
that's not who we are. That is a part we're playing, right,
Or when you have to discipline your child, I mean,
that's a terrible role to play, but sometimes there's nobody
else to play it. You open that box, you look,
oh God, do I have to do this? And there
you go when you go, kid, this is what you
did wrong. And this is the punishment in all your studies.
Speaker 1: When when should a man and the person that he's
with a woman really face that wall. That's about the
Swedish death cleaning, where it's time to throw things away
and let's get things set up for the latter part
of our chapters.
Speaker 2: As soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So my theory and this has gotten me. I
get a lot more done with this is I do
it when I think of it. So for instance, I'm
walking on the goal of course, and I see a
potato chip bag that blew out of somebody's cart, I
will get out. I will walk over and pick it
up and put it in my pocket and take it away
right then. Yep, I will not see. And if I
have an idea for a piece of music, or a
book chapter or anything else, I write it down right
then so that it never disappears, usually just heading. But
I do it when I think of it, and that
keeps me moving forward without a bunch of trailing dingleberries
of things I should have done and want to do
and hope to get to.
Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about everything
that you do? Because I love your connection to the
human spirit as well as the world of creativity.
Speaker 2: You know what these you're bringing tears to my eyes.
Speaker 1: Arrow.
Speaker 2: I love the compliment, and I thank you so much.
And I write in my book that men need praise.
Women like compliments. Men need praise, and what you just
said is praise to me, So thank you. People can
find me anywhere. It's a tomster just dot net is
my website, and I there's a mail I reach out
to tom thing there and uh, that's probably a good
place to start it. And this book and all my
books are available on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Well you got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. Tom. I love sharing a conversation with.
Speaker 2: You, Arrow, What a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your
morning with me, my friend.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2: Okay, sir, I'm taking that. That's mine. I'm taking that.
Be brilliant today. That could be a book.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I challenge you.
Speaker 2: Now, okay, I'm writing it down.
Speaker 1: Have fun, guy by now have your weekend. Arrow. Thanks Bill,