WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.120 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to 2 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.679 you today about a way that you can help support 3 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.199 the podcast if you're not already to support the channel 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.880 is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon 5 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.919 memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and 6 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.600 when you sign up, you get access to all of 7 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.839 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 8 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.000 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for 9 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.320 that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 11 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.280 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go 12 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.039 and check us out at patreon dot com, Slash the Teamhouse, 13 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:47.039 Special Operations, cobt. 14 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:55.280 OS, Spiona, The Team House with Your Hopes, Jack Murphy 15 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:57.560 and David bark. 16 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:04.840 Hey, Welcome to episode three hundred and four of The Teamhouse. 17 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.519 I'm Jack here with Dave and on tonight's show is 18 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:13.040 Justin Warrez. Justin served in fitth Special Forces Group, deployed 19 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:17.200 to Iraq, also served in nineteenth Special Forces Group, and 20 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:21.319 then he went into the private sector and started a 21 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.120 company called KRG and today is working for j Golt 22 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:29.879 Aircraft working on some pretty interesting projects there. We're excited 23 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:31.879 to talk to you tonight justin thank you for coming 24 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:32.319 on the show. 25 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.680 Thanks for having me fellas. I'm excited to be here. 26 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:37.840 I've been listening to you guys for quite a while now, 27 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:39.200 so thank you. It's cool. 28 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:41.959 So we've got a quick ad read to do before 29 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:43.239 we jump into the interview. 30 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.319 Here, So we want to get a shout out to 31 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:49.640 our sponsorn, ghost Bad. So. I'm a very hot sleeper. 32 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.200 I wake up in the middle night's sweating. I have 33 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.959 to have a fan on me at all times. And 34 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:54.799 if you're like me, if you sleep hot at night, 35 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.480 you know just how disruptive it can be, whether you're 36 00:01:57.519 --> 00:01:59.680 having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the 37 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:03.519 middle night, or all of the above. That's where ghost 38 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:06.359 bed can help. As the makers of the coolest beds 39 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:08.520 in the world. 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Just visit ghost sped 60 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:09.520 dot com slash house and use code house excuse me 61 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:13.759 at checkout Again, that's ghost sped dot com slash house 62 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:18.000 with code house at checkout and save a whopping fifty 63 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:22.800 percent off site wide, Save on your air conditioning bills, 64 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.080 and get a ghost bed. 65 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.240 All right justin let's uh, let's jump into it. 66 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:29.439 Man. 67 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:32.120 Tell us a little bit about your origin story, about 68 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.599 how you grew up and and what your path was 69 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:35.960 that took you towards the army. 70 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:42.360 Sure. Yeah, So I grew up in a small town of Wyoming, 71 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:48.919 came from you know, poor family pretty much peasants basically 72 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:54.520 on both sides. My my mom's side is white, my 73 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.199 dad's side as a Mexican, and like I said, had 74 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:06.439 basically peasants all the way back. But I was fortunate 75 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.120 that my parents realized the importance of well, first of all, 76 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:15.080 they wanted a better life for me. And I should 77 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.480 probably clarify when I say poor. We weren't dirt poor 78 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.319 like you see in some places, like the kind of 79 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.399 poor I saw in like the South for example, when 80 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.120 I when I joined the Army and went over to 81 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:32.240 the Carolinas and stuff. But anyways, Uh so my parents 82 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.720 realized that, uh, the way to improve your life was 83 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.759 through education, and so that was a that was the 84 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:48.480 value in the family early on. And ah that kind 85 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:51.279 of led to me being as far as I know, 86 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:53.839 the first one in my family to go to college, 87 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.360 to go to like a four year college. Uh. Being 88 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:01.079 from Wyoming is you know, has lot of advantages. There's 89 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.279 not very many people there, and it's it's a it's 90 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:06.360 a fun place you can do a lot outdoor kind 91 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:09.399 of activities, fishing and shooting and stuff like that. So 92 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.000 I grew up doing a lot of shooting just you know, 93 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:18.120 birds and prairie dogs and stuff like that, and target 94 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:25.079 shooting and fishing and stuff like that, and you know, 95 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.040 really really got a feel for you know, sort of 96 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.360 being outdoors and but also just kind of the West 97 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.680 and and that sort of lifestyle that's kind of still 98 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:42.600 goes on out here today. So from you know, I stayed. 99 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.959 I stayed in Wyoming through college. I ended up going 100 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.800 to University Wyoming. And when I was a kid, I 101 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:54.920 wanted to be a World War two fighter pilot, which 102 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.199 of course is you know, not something you can be. 103 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.839 But I used to watch all the shows and yeah, 104 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.279 and you know, we used to read all the books 105 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.759 about World War two and stuff like that, and and 106 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:11.439 uh uh, but I was I was pretty a pretty 107 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:14.439 poor vision. You know, all all through life. I had 108 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.720 real thick glasses and then contacts later on, you know, 109 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:20.800 as I got older. Uh fortunately the Army got me 110 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:27.480 lasick once I was graduated the Q course. But so 111 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:31.480 so anyway, as I kind of when I was like 112 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:33.800 maybe preteen, the idea was maybe get me into the 113 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:38.519 Air Force Academy. And because you know, we couldn't. No 114 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:40.800 one in my family could afford to pay for college 115 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:42.720 for me, and I you know, there wasn't any way 116 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:44.600 I can do it. So it's either some kind of 117 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:49.079 a scholarship academic or athletic or something like that. And 118 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:54.199 and uh, really I wasn't athletic enough for scholarship. I 119 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.920 was a pretty pretty good tennis player, but not that 120 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:02.720 not you know, not collegiate level, I don't think so 121 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.879 between the vision and well that was really it is 122 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.800 his vision. And and you know, honestly, I didn't really 123 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:13.720 uh try too hard dur in high school, I would 124 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.839 say I was I was smart enough. I was kind 125 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:17.759 of I kind of think of it as I was 126 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.439 cursed with being smart enough to not have to really 127 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:25.519 work that hard in high school to get through, which 128 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:27.959 is it sounds like a kind of a good thing 129 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:31.079 in a way, but it's actually not, because, as you 130 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.000 learn in life, the key to success is not to 131 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.639 be smart. It's actually to be resilient and to keep 132 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:43.600 pushing through when you have when you've come up against challenges, 133 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:48.959 you know, academically or what have you. Uh So Anyways, 134 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:53.800 ended up going to University Wyoming, and my dad had 135 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.759 pushed for me to you know, go into the medical field. 136 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.079 Is you know, he saw that as a way of 137 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:07.040 of you know, attaining a good income, status, social status, 138 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:10.680 all the kind of stuff that you think is great 139 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:15.360 when you know you're come from an immigrant family or 140 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.240 come from a poor family, whatever whatever it may be. 141 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.800 But I think I really just never had the passion 142 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:28.480 for that. Nevertheless, I ended up getting a pre med 143 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.360 degree from University Wyoming, and and I was all set 144 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.320 to go to med school. I'd take my MCATs. I 145 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:38.919 had already started applying, I was kind of midway through 146 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:45.519 the application process, and then September eleventh, but you know 147 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.919 that the attacks and those happened in my senior year 148 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.039 would have been obviously two thousand and one, but I graduated. 149 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.639 I waited until I graduated in two thousand and two, 150 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.320 and I signed up like a delayed entry or something 151 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.320 like that. I can't remember when exactly I signed up, 152 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:08.120 but I left maybe a few weeks after I graduated. 153 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:09.240 I left for basic training. 154 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:13.840 And so this is, if if I recall correctly, so 155 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.759 after nine to eleven happened. Don Rumsfeld decided we needed 156 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.639 more special forces and that brought about the eighteen X 157 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:26.000 ray program. And was that how you enlisted through the program? 158 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:32.440 That's exactly right. Yeah, I had looked so probably you 159 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.720 guys heard this story. But I saw the movie Block 160 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:41.879 Hawk Down, and that got me thinking. It just sort 161 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.639 of opened my eyes to some of the some of 162 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:47.159 the things that were that were available, you know. And 163 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.720 obviously it portrays the Rangers and Deltas as these super 164 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.960 cool guys, right, and it's like, oh man, that's really neat. 165 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.120 But the other thing that that that movie did was 166 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:04.919 showed me that, you know, sometimes there's stuff going on 167 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:12.120 that you know, you don't know about. And not that 168 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:17.759 I don't know exactly how to described this, but there's 169 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:20.480 people that are doing things I'm half of the country 170 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.879 that know that people don't know about and I don't 171 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:29.200 know that. Uh, I don't know how to really describe it, 172 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.120 but it kind of it kind of spoke to me 173 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:31.720 a little. 174 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:33.279 Bit like it was something you wanted to be a 175 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:33.639 part of. 176 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:38.559 Well, it was something that I didn't want to not 177 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:42.080 be a part of. I think, you know, because I 178 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.000 didn't want to be sitting idly by. I guess it's 179 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:50.039 kind of where I'm going with that, you know. Ah 180 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.559 So anyways, forgive me, I'm just getting over a cold. 181 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.039 I was up in Vermont cold last week. 182 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.159 But uh. 183 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:05.320 So so between the watching this movie and then and 184 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:09.120 then the Texas September eleventh, you know, it was actually 185 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.720 my brother and I we just got together one day 186 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:15.919 and we sort of simultaneously started talking about, hey and 187 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:18.840 think about joining. And we'd both been doing the research 188 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:23.360 on SF and and H and rangers. Really that was 189 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:27.480 the two kind of routes we were looking at. And 190 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.120 somehow we had learned about the X ray program, which yeah, 191 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:32.960 had just just come about. And it turns out we 192 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.879 were we He left in like April O two and 193 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.159 I left in JUNEO two. We were in some of 194 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.039 the first two classes X rays that went out. Yeah, 195 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:49.600 so we were we were very fortunate because you know, 196 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.559 we all heard horror stories of you know, trying to 197 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:55.919 get going to the regular army and then get into 198 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.279 SF or rangers, and our in our basic class it 199 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.720 was half it was half X rays and half rip 200 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:11.279 contract guys. And uh none of the rip contract guys 201 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.080 made it because they were all infantry and rangers didn't 202 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:21.279 need infantry at that point. So we were fortunate that 203 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.919 we chose the way we did. And uh, A lot 204 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:26.279 of a lot of the guys that I was with 205 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:29.279 in Basic were had come out of college or super 206 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.879 good dudes. Uh, and most of the most of us 207 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:34.759 made it as x rays. 208 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:39.000 What was that like going through the X ray program 209 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.320 and like the I don't know if SOPSY had been 210 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.519 stood up yet, what was it like as a very 211 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.360 young guy or a young ish guy you got college 212 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.879 under your belt, but still new to the army and 213 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:50.960 going through all of this stuff for the first time. 214 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.399 It was pretty wild. I got to say, Uh, you know, 215 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.720 a lot of a lot of discomfort, you know, is 216 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.600 uh kind of how I guess you could say. But 217 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.360 we ended up we were we did have SOAPSI, so 218 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:12.200 we did you know, Infantry Airborne School. Uh, and and 219 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.159 then we got to SAPSI and up till then, I 220 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:18.639 hadn't been super impressed with the Army. I gotta say, 221 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.440 and I'm not trying to hopefully I'm not sounding like 222 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.879 Arragon or anything, but there was a lot of silly 223 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:27.759 stuff that they had us doing. You guys know how 224 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:31.559 basic is. It's a lot of stuff and it's like, really, 225 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.000 this is the army and then Airborne school is supposed 226 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.679 to be tough and you sort of run around like 227 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.600 at a walking pace. And ah, so we got to 228 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.879 SAPSI and then we saw what stuff was really about. 229 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:47.600 And yeah, we had a SAPSY instructor. He's pretty he 230 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:49.600 was pretty famous at the time. His name is Ralph 231 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.279 Ralph Jensen. He was this German guy from tenth group 232 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.120 and he was a scuba guy who had I don't 233 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.080 know how he got to SAPSI. I heard he I 234 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:02.120 heard he did something wrong, you know, and group got 235 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.039 sent over there. You know how it is. Nobody wants 236 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:04.519 to be there. 237 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:07.000 So uh. 238 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.080 Anyways, Jensen was brutal to us. I mean he just 239 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.120 worked us, you know, it worked us over night and day. 240 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:18.879 I mean pool, pool, pt just everything just low crawling 241 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.080 through the through the sand pit, you know, pouring water 242 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:24.320 and it's all just all the stuff everybody goes through, 243 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:29.919 you know. Ah. But at that time, it's like, wow, 244 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.360 this is this is pretty intense stuff. And and I 245 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.320 don't know if more guys quit and sopsy then than 246 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:40.360 the rest of the course, I'd say I'd say there's 247 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.360 a chance there was more guys that quit there, Yeah, 248 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.600 than then quit later on because it was it was 249 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.840 pretty brutal. And and when it came time for selection, Uh, 250 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:56.440 selection was was not wasn't as intense as what SOPSY was. 251 00:14:57.559 --> 00:14:59.840 With the exception of it was the weather was a 252 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.559 lot words, which made it pretty miser really for us. 253 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.759 So you think the SAPs course, as brutal as it was, 254 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:07.679 it did a pretty good job of preparing you guys 255 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:07.879 for that. 256 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.759 Yeah. Absolutely, I mean we were landing Evan all the time, 257 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:16.000 and and uh, you know there was a lot of 258 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:19.399 gut checks in there. And I remember, you know, I 259 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.720 kind of think of of my path in life. The 260 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:28.440 success that I've had is it's it's uh, it's dependent 261 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.919 almost as much on the things that I didn't do, 262 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:36.440 some very key, key sort of crossroad points where I 263 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:41.840 didn't I didn't take an action, and and uh it's 264 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.519 as dependent on those points those things as as the 265 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.679 positive actions that I did take, like for example, joining 266 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:51.519 as a as an x ray. But the first one 267 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.879 of those was in Sapsey and and uh, I remember 268 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.519 we were landing Evan in the rain and there was 269 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.159 a there was a guy in with us. I didn't 270 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.200 think much of him. He was a you know, kind 271 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.919 of small, kind of just not just not that impressive 272 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:13.919 of a guy, I thought. And and I was going 273 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.840 through there, and I hadn't really got the hang of 274 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:17.480 land that have yet, So I was kind of half 275 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.240 lost and walking through the woods with whatever it was, 276 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.080 sixty odd pounds on her on my back, just miserable, 277 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.519 and and I I was, I was kind of just 278 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.799 wanting to quit, you know. Of course, I don't know 279 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.519 if you guys had this, but they always had the 280 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.840 threat of sending us to Korea or the or the 281 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:39.200 deuce eighty second, So that was that was a pretty 282 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:44.639 good motivator to keep us from quitting. But anyway, so 283 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.720 I'm thinking, ah, maybe the Deuce ain't that bad. And 284 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:51.360 then then pops into my head, pops this this guy 285 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.679 who's in Sopsy with us, you know, and and he's like, 286 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.440 you know, SF just isn't for everybody, That's what he's 287 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:04.759 saying to me in my head, and so I was like, 288 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:10.480 fuck you, I'm not quitting, and uh, and so I 289 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:13.400 pushed on and so that was that was sort of 290 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:17.240 one of those sort of key like uh, crossroad points 291 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.720 in my life. Then it was like I pushed on. 292 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:21.720 I you know, made it through sopcy and made it 293 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.880 through selection and the course and all that stuff. But uh, 294 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:28.839 kind of a strange kind of occurrence there because I 295 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.319 never really had something like that happening again. 296 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.039 And so you go on to the Q course. Uh 297 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:36.559 you were in eighteen Charlie. 298 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.400 I was, Yeah, I was afraid I was gonna get 299 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.880 assigned a delta to be a delta. 300 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:43.960 Because of your medical background. 301 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.920 Yeah, but I wasn't like a E. M T or 302 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.000 anything like that. You know, a pre med degree is 303 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.200 basically just science, you know, physics and biology and math. 304 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:58.960 But I don't think they knew about it even and 305 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.160 I didn't. I'll I wanted to get deployed as quickly 306 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.720 as possible, so I wanted to be I don't want 307 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.359 to be an echo. And Charlie's sound groups sounded great, 308 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:13.079 you know, construction and explosives, that sounds pretty awesome. So yeah, 309 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.839 I got to sign a Charlie and it was very 310 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:16.640 fortunate for that. 311 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.720 And then you get assigned to fifth Special Forces Group, 312 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:27.079 Fort Campbell, Kentucky. What was it like hitting the ground there. 313 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:29.880 We're still sort of early on into the War on Terror? 314 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.319 What is it like two thousand and four, Yeah. 315 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:38.000 Late two thousand and four. Yep. It was a pretty 316 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:43.640 intimidating environment actually because you know, the Fifth Group guys 317 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.519 were the ones that went in Afghanistan, you know, and 318 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:49.720 and they were the ones that were taking the fight 319 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:54.279 to the enemy, doing the bulk of the work up 320 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:56.559 up till then. You know, I know, other groups have 321 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.240 been coming online, but a lot of it had been 322 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:06.920 Fifth Group, and so there were guys there who were 323 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:11.160 pretty you know, salty, pretty crusty guys, you know, combat experienced, 324 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:15.599 and uh So it was intimidating partially because also because 325 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.759 Fifth Group had such a reputation. I mean, it was 326 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.319 like it was sort of like going to Ranger Regiment, 327 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.440 you know. And I'm not you know, I'm not saying 328 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.440 it's like that. I never been to Ranger Regiment, but 329 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.400 just the idea in my head, it was like Fifth 330 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:35.400 Group wasn't the relaxed, you know, long hair and everything, 331 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:40.279 you know, a cool guy, uh kind of gentleman school 332 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.920 kind of kind of environment. It was like it was 333 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.119 it was the hard asses and we do everything the 334 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:51.759 hardest way possible and that kind of stuff. So so 335 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.960 it was intimidating and and you know, I had I 336 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.000 had some advice from from a guy who was who 337 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.559 was uh who was in Jaysock. I was riding dirt 338 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.119 bikes with him, and he told me, you know, if 339 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:09.480 you get a chance, volunteer for like the hardest, the 340 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.640 hardest things that you can, you know, so the hardest school, 341 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.880 scuba school, stuff like that, you know, and because you 342 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.079 always want to you want to get to the higher 343 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.519 levels of of of group and and and the army. 344 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.880 And when I got to group, the the I leave 345 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.720 as a company sergeant major might have been the time 346 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.960 Sergeant major. He's like, well, I don't think about where 347 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.200 where where I should send you. We got the slot 348 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.559 open on the scuba team and a couple of other teams, 349 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.400 and I'm like, and I hated from from sopsy. I 350 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.359 hated the swimming, I hated the pool. I hated all 351 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.200 that stuff. And so I didn't I didn't go to 352 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:56.160 the to the to the dive team. And looking back, 353 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.279 that was probably a mistake, although you know, I don't. 354 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.240 I don't regret it, you know, a ton really, but. 355 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:07.519 Yeah, I hear, well, we. 356 00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:11.799 Yeah, some guys are real into that kind of stuff. 357 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.920 It's one thing if you're just doing it, uh, if 358 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.400 you go to dive school just just to challenge yourself. 359 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.960 But I still have zero interest in swimming or you know, 360 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.960 water or anything like that, scuba diving, that kind of stuff. 361 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.880 So anyways, I. 362 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:32.400 Was just gonna ask you what team you did end 363 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:32.680 up on. 364 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.000 Yeah, so I went to five five one, which is uh, 365 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.440 you know, I would have went to Triple Nickel, I 366 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.000 think is the is one, which was a pretty notable 367 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.200 team at that time. And even five five one had 368 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.680 done some some pretty good work in Afghanistan in the 369 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:50.799 early days and have been written up in the like 370 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:52.759 the Soft Journal or something like that. I can't remember, 371 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:56.839 but like I said, when I got there, or you know, 372 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.799 I mentioned earlier, when I got to the team, I 373 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.079 will was the I was the senior Charlie right off 374 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.599 the bat, and most of the guys didn't have much 375 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.000 experience at that time. 376 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.119 It's interesting that you say that they didn't have a 377 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.519 lot of experience, so you know, guys were doing their 378 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.680 hard time and then kind of getting out because the 379 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.039 rotations were so rough. 380 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.640 Yeah, they weren't. And I don't know if that's if 381 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.519 the contracting world was pulling the guys, you know, with 382 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.519 that lure of the money. I don't think they had 383 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.599 introduced the what they called the Devil's money at that 384 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.279 time was one hundred and fifty K bonus to stay 385 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:44.720 in once he hit eighteen or whatever. I don't know 386 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.519 if they had that, but the contracting world there was 387 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.799 a big that was a big draw, and I don't 388 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:51.039 know if they were doing that or not, or were 389 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:54.680 just so tired of being in Afghanistan and whatnot, because 390 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:58.680 it was those guys were. They weren't living like we 391 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.240 lived when I deployed. We lived and Saddam's mother in 392 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.599 law's palace in Baghdad. You know, we weren't living hard 393 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.680 like those guys were. So I don't blame them, you know, 394 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.319 for getting out. And it's not like they just got 395 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.240 the group in two thousand and one. You know, those 396 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.519 guys have been there, right, so they had already been 397 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:19.440 in the army a while. 398 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:24.000 Let me do a insert a quick ad read here 399 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.640 and we'll jump back into the interview. I just want 400 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.640 to tell our viewers about Mando. 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But I'm interested 478 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.960 if you could talk about your ODA about five to 479 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.519 five one, Like what were this of characters like and 480 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.839 and start walking us through like getting prepped up for 481 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:05.759 deployment in two thousand and five. 482 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:11.759 Sure, yeah, so you know most of the guys had 483 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.000 uh had been there just one rotation and they had 484 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.920 I think a year max group for a lot of guys. 485 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:22.240 Like I said, I was a senior Charlie. So I 486 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:24.440 was all here, I'm all amped up because I'm gonna 487 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.359 take over, you know, take over all the Charlie duties 488 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.640 and I'm gonna I'm gonna build as a castle and 489 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:34.359 you know, just go crazy with Charlie stuff and a 490 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:36.039 lot of us were like that, Well, you know, we 491 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.599 had I think two other X rays on the team 492 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:43.319 at the time, and so we're pretty young team. And 493 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.559 but we did have our team sergeant, our first team 494 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.200 shot at the time was it he was a silver 495 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:54.960 Star winner and so he was like, you know, he 496 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.000 was like amazing in my eyes, like he could do 497 00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:03.279 no wrong, and uh, yeah, he was. He was kind 498 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.759 of a wild guy. I remember in our you know, 499 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.839 you do your you know, your pre mission prep and 500 00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.880 all that stuff, and then you brief the company commander 501 00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.640 on what's your mission is going to be, what's you know, 502 00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:22.079 just to hold that whole commander briefing before you deploy, 503 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:28.279 and and I remember the he was saying some wild stuff. 504 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.000 I don't remember what all, but the company commander was 505 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.079 a super sharp guy. Ended up going up to the 506 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:38.440 Pentagon and he's like, okay, so what kind of what 507 00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:43.519 kind of numerical superiority are you guys looking for when 508 00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:48.240 you engage the enemy in combat? And and my team 509 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:53.279 sergeant said thirty to one And a company company commander says, 510 00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:58.880 you want thirty guys for every every shithead? And no 511 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:03.400 he's he says, oh, he says if there's thirty of 512 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.400 them for every one of us we're going in and 513 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.799 so I think I think that kind of played into 514 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:17.480 some events that followed. And you know, it ended up 515 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:23.039 that the guys had they had sort of misstep on 516 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:27.720 the previous deployment, and they didn't really do anything super wrong, 517 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:32.079 but they had done some gray area stuff trying to 518 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:36.519 help out, trying trying to right or wrong a mistake 519 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.000 that that one of the guys had made. I won't 520 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:46.279 get into it too much, but they were they were 521 00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:49.200 trying to do the right thing, but they just went 522 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:51.799 about it the wrong way. And you know, it wasn't 523 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.039 any kind of war crime stuff like that. It was 524 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:55.720 of financial related stuff. 525 00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:58.000 Is this the story about the team that had the 526 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.480 kiddie and they kept putting money into the kitty and 527 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.319 then taking it out. 528 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.200 There wasn't a kiddy. I've heard the story get distorted 529 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:07.599 a lot of. 530 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.240 Yeah, yeah, that could be the case too. 531 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.240 Yeah, yeah, there wasn't a kiddy. But they they they 532 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:21.599 they got creative and with some financial stuff basically. But anyways, 533 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:26.559 we we had a warrant who wasn't well liked, and 534 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.279 we had been through a series of warrants. We had 535 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:32.640 a guy who came out of seventh Group who was 536 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.160 wearing a silver star that he didn't earn and in 537 00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:39.039 one of the Baalian formations. So we went through like 538 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:43.359 three warrants. Yeah, it was brutal. We finally get this 539 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:47.079 warrant and we think he's going to be good. He was. 540 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.440 He was a stud, a physical stud, but he just 541 00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.799 was such an asshole and nobody liked him. And and 542 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:57.400 I think he was getting booted off the team. I 543 00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.240 think he's getting voted off the island basically. And and 544 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:06.000 he went to uh to the Jaggers whoever, and said, hey, 545 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.960 this team did this, you know. Anyways, he told them 546 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.559 all the all the stuff, all the secrets, you know, 547 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:18.240 Like I said, nothing was that bad. But in my eyes, 548 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:23.359 I wasn't worried about anything. But anyways, they right before 549 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.279 we deployed, they they dispersed the team, you know, disbanded 550 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:32.160 the team and uh everyone went different places. And I 551 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:37.720 ended up uh deploying straight into up see Jasoda and 552 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:44.119 ballade like high high level command, you know, and I 553 00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.440 was a I forget what they call it, but the 554 00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:51.720 battalion rep up there and I'm an E five and 555 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:56.680 surrounded by you know, colonels. Colonel McDonald was running the 556 00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.640 whole show in the whole country at that time and 557 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.519 brief in him every day, and everyone else that's doing 558 00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.720 the job as as generally an eight I think, because 559 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:11.359 it's all guys who were combat weary and you need 560 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:17.119 a little downtime or something like that. Anyways, I spent 561 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.000 the first maybe half of my first deployment at see 562 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:30.079 Josoda doing admin stuff, and I was absolutely miserable, obviously, 563 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.720 as any team guy would be up there. I did 564 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:36.720 meet Vince mackel up there, a hell of a good dude, 565 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:38.279 and a lot of good dudes up there, you know. 566 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.960 But that was the first time I got exposed to 567 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:48.799 sort of a toxic political uh sort of just that 568 00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.200 sort of a leadership, that sort of top high level 569 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.559 leadership environment, you know, just the kind of stuff that 570 00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:59.680 you hear about and just dread about that goes on 571 00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:03.240 at the top levels of command. And I saw all 572 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:08.000 that stuff firsthand. And and there's a lot of dudes 573 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:11.079 that cared, especially Colonel McDonald really cared a lot about 574 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:15.559 the guys. But the overall attitude and kind of how 575 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.280 I describe it is, or I think of it as 576 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:20.079 like they all felt like they could just win the 577 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.840 war if they could get these goddamn pesky team guys 578 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:23.400 out of the way. 579 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:27.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it. 580 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.039 Was really really kind of tainted my view of things. 581 00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.199 And on top of that, I was really pissed off 582 00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:38.000 about the team getting disbanded because the team sergeant got 583 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:43.559 prosecuted and the team's team leader got prosecuted both. And yeah, 584 00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.760 so so two guys that I looked up to were 585 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.159 just prosecuted for some what I considered total bullshit and 586 00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.599 not just just one of those things where you're like, hey, 587 00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:58.559 the leadership should have said, hey, you had the right intention, 588 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:02.440 you've dumb about it, you know, move on kind of thing. 589 00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:07.800 But uh yeah, so they I kind of got. I 590 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.320 kind of got that glimpse of that view of officers 591 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.079 stabbing each other in the back and shit talking and 592 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:17.079 stuff like that, and I saw how the ground truth 593 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:20.360 gets twisted ten degrees or twenty five degrees at every 594 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.960 step until at the top of the chain it's one 595 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:26.639 hundred and eighty degrees and they have absolutely no idea 596 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:31.039 what's going on, right, all right, so it's their idea 597 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:33.199 is one hundred and eighty degrees out I guess is 598 00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:38.119 more accurate. So, but there was there was good things 599 00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.320 to it too, of course, but but yeah, that was 600 00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.920 just a miserable time, unfortunately, I was. They brought back 601 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.679 the team together and and then finally sent me down, 602 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.079 uh back to the teamhouse, which was in Baghdad, just 603 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.239 south of the Green zone there. 604 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.679 Oh, that's interesting. They reconstituted your team like halfway through 605 00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:57.239 the deployment. 606 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:00.480 Yeah, and they pulled most of the guys back, we 607 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:02.400 enlisted guys. Yeah. 608 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:05.800 Interesting, And so I they found you guys, a new 609 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.239 team sergeant, new team leader. 610 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:11.239 Yeah. I think we didn't have a team leader, but 611 00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:15.000 we had a team sergeant. He was he was a 612 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.440 hell of a good guy, but he was a real 613 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:21.480 weak team leader. Probably probably one of the nicest guys 614 00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:23.519 you've ever meet. But he should never have been a 615 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:25.360 team leader or a team sergeant. Sorry. 616 00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:26.159 Uh. 617 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:28.800 And I don't know if he wanted to be a 618 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:33.000 team sergeant, but he was. He was miserable, I could tell, 619 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.840 and and things just evolved, you know, because you can't 620 00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:39.840 you just can't have a weak team sergeant. 621 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:41.119 You know. 622 00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:44.320 I think of an SF team as a as a 623 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:48.320 pack of wolves, you know. It's uh, it's a bunch 624 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:54.320 of people with big egos and who who think they're badasses, 625 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:57.760 who think they that they know how to do it best. Uh, 626 00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.360 and you need a strong leader who can basically wrangle 627 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.199 all these guys and basically channel all that energy. 628 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.239 Jim Jim Morris, who was a team leader in Vietnam, 629 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:12.320 he described once in his one of his books that 630 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.760 being a team leader on an ODA is basically being 631 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.079 the manager of twelve pre madonnas. There's quite a bit 632 00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.159 of truth to that, but there is that what comes 633 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.360 with that, There is also a lot of capability too. 634 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.559 Oh yeah, I mean the guys were when you know, 635 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.360 everyone's everyone is studs by that point, right, and uh, 636 00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:40.199 you know, when you think of like the guys being 637 00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:45.440 in shape guys, the guys were all you know, you 638 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:47.360 had guys who were like real studs on the team 639 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.679 compared to everybody else. But then when you take a 640 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.239 team guy and you take him out to the civilian world, 641 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.559 it's like the slowest out of shape team guy is 642 00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:02.719 you know, destroys the pavilion. Uh, you know, world as 643 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.320 far as fitness and stuff like that goes. And then 644 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.559 you have all the capabilities obviously that that you know 645 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:13.440 on top of that, But not to disparage civilians, I'm 646 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:18.599 just saying that's the that's the the standard of of 647 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.840 s F is that even if you're the slowest guy, 648 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.079 you better be a damn good runner. And you know, 649 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.840 if you're the weakest, you better be still strong. And 650 00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.519 you know, you got to be able to rock really 651 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:32.119 well and carry a lot of weight even if you're 652 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.880 a small guy. So yeah, there's there's a lot of 653 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:44.119 there's a lot of strong personalities basically hopefully not too 654 00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:48.199 much of the prima donnas like some other branches have, 655 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.440 but but yeah, you need a strong leader, and we 656 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.440 didn't have one, and so it was it was not 657 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.719 a pretty time on that deployment. Uh, we didn't. I 658 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.679 don't think we're super productive. You know, the guys wanted 659 00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:07.199 to go out and be but you know, we just weren't. 660 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.920 And you know, we did what we could. 661 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:13.000 So yeah, I mean you kind of started off on 662 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.760 your back foot there too, with a team being disbanded 663 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:20.159 and then reconstituted halfway through. And as you said, there 664 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.280 you're you know, no team leader position there. Yeah, you 665 00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.519 guys kind of got you know, that's pretty tough for 666 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:32.079 anybody to kind of go through. But I mean it 667 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.039 sounds like there were guys on the team to trying 668 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:36.239 to get you out the door, get you out doing things. 669 00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.480 Oh yeah, we were. We had some very aggressive guys. 670 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:44.280 I mean we and I was aggressive. 671 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:44.559 You know. 672 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.280 I wanted to go out and take my sniper rifle 673 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:49.079 and go out into the city if I if I 674 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:51.159 would have been able to, I would have just walked 675 00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:54.320 out at the gate of our compound and just went 676 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.719 out and set up a sniper position, started shooting guys. 677 00:39:57.800 --> 00:39:58.000 You know. 678 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.400 What they you know, we didn't have Essentially, we were 679 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:06.199 like a brand new team at that point, and I 680 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.480 was a brand new guy the group. No one's gonna 681 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.760 let us do that kind of stuff, you know. So 682 00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:14.440 I was playing all kinds of crazy stuff being a 683 00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:18.199 Charlie and I was super into explosives and whatnot and 684 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:23.920 unconventional warfare. I was rigging up schemes to uh, you know, 685 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:30.880 install you know, remote detonated bombs in places to take 686 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.360 out key leaders and stuff like that. I mean, I was, 687 00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:35.519 I was pretty gung ho, you know. 688 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.239 So I take I take it that that con op 689 00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.239 did not get approved. 690 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:41.760 I take it. 691 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.079 No, you know, that was kind of the day before 692 00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:50.199 con ops were really that first deployment was was before 693 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.719 con ops were had really taken a hold as much 694 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.480 as they would later on. And I probably didn't see 695 00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.360 that the con op process anyways, maybe they where I 696 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.199 just didn't know about it, you know. But but yeah, 697 00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:07.159 so we ended up kind of you know, doing doing 698 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.599 what we could and and whatnot. And we definitely did 699 00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:13.119 some some ASO work and stuff like that, and you know, 700 00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:17.400 drove around in Lovez with you know, in in Hodgey 701 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:23.960 vans and stuff. Was still no this this has been 702 00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.280 a bag dad. Yeah. So I was at the same 703 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.039 we ended up. The team was at the same house 704 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:32.960 for for both deployments that I was at, which was 705 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.920 just south of of the Tigris River, just south of 706 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.679 the green zone there. So it's a pretty It was 707 00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.440 a really cool compound. I had an amazing range set 708 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.239 up there. I had a thousand yard maybe maybe it's 709 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:49.440 nine hundred meter something like that range going, just really cool, 710 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.920 uh set up. We had a big flat range for 711 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:57.440 the training the jun d's and stuff. Yeah, so I 712 00:41:57.519 --> 00:41:59.079 was glad to get out of ballog for sure. 713 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.320 So it sounds like, you know, you guys weren't as 714 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:04.800 you know, productive as you had wanted to be, or 715 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:06.519 maybe some of the other guys on the team wanted 716 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:10.639 to be. That deployment Well, walk us through redeploying back home, 717 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.840 and now you're kind of getting ready to go right 718 00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:14.639 back out the door again, right, you know, like you said, 719 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:15.440 to the same place. 720 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:22.039 Yeah, essentially. So as soon as we got back, I had, uh, 721 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:25.840 there had been a position that opened on the there're 722 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:31.039 third Battalion, let's say, Charlie Company, third Battalion. They're making 723 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.039 an OPE company. Yeah, and so I was like, oh, 724 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.920 that sounds interesting, you know. So I was going to 725 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.000 go do that, and then uh, I don't know, I 726 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:47.559 just decided not to for some reason, you know, but 727 00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.480 I they ended up sending me the Fox Course, which 728 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.599 is really where I hit my stride in group. 729 00:42:55.960 --> 00:43:00.199 Yeah, I just want to I'm gonna I'm going who 730 00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.000 vaguely allude to this this so the OPE Company Operational 731 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:08.079 Preparation of the Environment is doing like some more unconventional 732 00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.519 intelligence stuff, and that company, as I recall, they were 733 00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.480 all going to be like long hair teams and all 734 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.320 this kind of stuff. I don't know how much of 735 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:20.360 that actually happened. But and then why don't you tell 736 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.679 folks about the eighteen fox course and what an eighteen 737 00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:25.119 fox is for people out there. 738 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:29.960 Who don't know, Oh yeah, I'd love to the So 739 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:38.079 eighteen fox is the intel intel sergeant and essentially what 740 00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:43.719 that is is it's not it's like it's almost like 741 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.960 an all source intel analyst. Basically, you're the guy on 742 00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:52.800 the team who's responsible for developing intelligence to target and 743 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:59.119 developing targets for the team to go prosecute. So you know, 744 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.840 you're doing everything from reading uh intel reports that are 745 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:07.239 coming from the agency, from other teams, uh regular Army, 746 00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.920 and and you're obviously anything your own team is is 747 00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:17.280 producing and you're you're in a lot of ways an analyst. 748 00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:21.199 You put that information together, you start developing a target 749 00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:27.239 packet and and uh, it's it's a really interesting job, 750 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:31.280 you know. And and part of it is is you 751 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:37.800 know you're yuh planning out that uh you know, you 752 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.119 do a lot of not a lot, but doing the 753 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:44.360 doing the uh Terrade models, like real detailed Terrade models, 754 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.920 so so that the team can see which building you're hitting, 755 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.000 how you're gonna how you're gonna park the hum V 756 00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:52.239 is how you're gonna flow through the buildings that kind 757 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:56.960 of stuff. It's it's really a really dynamic kind of thing, 758 00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:59.760 and there's a lot to it. The course itself was 759 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.960 like three months long, maybe maybe more, I can't remember, 760 00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:06.079 but it's at Bragg there and they go over a 761 00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.320 lot of stuff. It's you know, you learn photography, uh, 762 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.760 you learn like mapping software, so you can do you 763 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.960 can do a lot of interesting things with with mapping 764 00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:21.639 software as far as uh, you know, figuring out points 765 00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:25.840 of observation and and and uh you know infield points 766 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:29.039 and stuff like that. Uh. And so you learn that 767 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:31.000 kind of stuff. You learn and how to how to 768 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.639 pull intelligence off of them, you know, from the agency 769 00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.360 and everywhere, like I was saying, but also from from 770 00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:39.920 just open source stuff and how to how to do 771 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.119 that and how to interact with like the sauda's and 772 00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.800 and then it goes down to prosecuting the target and 773 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.639 then and then the aftermath doing the s S and 774 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.440 you know, how do you exploit the the information and 775 00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:56.239 the stuff that you're picking up off the objective and 776 00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:01.239 that kind of thing. So really, uh, a really dynamic 777 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.039 kind of it's kind of a high h end up 778 00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.639 being pretty highly trained, I guess after that is what 779 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.159 I what I would say, it's one of the probably 780 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:12.440 one of the longest courses, and uh you know sef 781 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:17.119 I would think, apart from the Q course, about as 782 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.480 long as as uh as probably the level three course, 783 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.719 I would guess, but you get a little bit of 784 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:24.119 that too. 785 00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:27.519 But go ahead, I was just gonna say. And and 786 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.679 then afterwards you went back to five five one to 787 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.880 be the intelligence sergeant on that team. 788 00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:38.639 Yeah. So, and I was still only I don't know 789 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.400 if I was even in A six by that time, 790 00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.960 and that's typically an E seven slots, a senior guys slot. 791 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.079 But they, you know, they sent me because I had 792 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.719 an aptitude for learning and that kind of thing, you know, 793 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.880 I had an agree you know whatnot. But then probably 794 00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:56.719 no one else wanted to do it either, because there's 795 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:01.599 you know, paperwork involved in that kind of stuff. Uh So, 796 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:05.559 went back to five five one, and we didn't have 797 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:09.400 much of a train up, uh and and much time 798 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.679 to get ready before we before we deployed again. But 799 00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:14.960 we got a new team sergeant who was uh he 800 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.079 was a stud and he was from from the stale. 801 00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.039 He was from A one to five. The name is 802 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:24.360 Robert Pittman. He was later killed UH working as a 803 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.920 contractor or. He was working for. 804 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:27.679 UH. 805 00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:30.599 I believe a w G. Although I'm not sure on 806 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:37.920 that one. After he retired UH in Afghanistan. But UH 807 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.880 pitt was was UH. He was a hell of the leader. 808 00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.639 And he was one of the first, one of the 809 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:49.480 first and one of the few actual good leaders that 810 00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:54.119 I saw in the army. And UH, and I don't 811 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.400 I still don't. I couldn't tell you how to be 812 00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:58.320 a good leader. I'm not a good I'm not a 813 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:01.960 leader myself, but I certainly can see it when it 814 00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:03.880 When I saw it, you know, I could identify it. 815 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:06.119 What did you identify? 816 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.119 And Pittman that you know, struck you as like, yeah, 817 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:09.800 this guy's on it. 818 00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.840 Uh. Part of it was, you know, he he knew 819 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.360 what he was doing, so he was tactically proficient. UH. 820 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.800 He was a hard ass. And so he didn't he 821 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:28.480 didn't he didn't let the guys slack. And he didn't 822 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:32.199 you know, sort of sort of back down or kind 823 00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:34.840 of let let guys influence him too much, or like 824 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.599 a do we really need to train today? That kind 825 00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.559 of thing. You know. It was he had the discipline 826 00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:44.880 and uh, you know, and but but he also what 827 00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:48.559 not only is tactically proficient, he was a stud with 828 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:54.039 PT you know, so he kind of he kind of 829 00:48:54.079 --> 00:49:00.199 had the skill set combined with the only thing I 830 00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.639 can really think of a of a trade of a 831 00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:06.920 good leader is like self self assured and self confidence. 832 00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:12.320 You know, there's and and uh, just know, just being 833 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:14.639 sure that you're right when you're making a decision. And 834 00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.760 that's a that's a difficult thing, I think. And then 835 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:21.079 and he had that, you know, he was he wasn't 836 00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:25.079 he wasn't arrogant, he you know, he was he was 837 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.599 just confident that he knew the way forward and that 838 00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.039 you needed to keep pushing forward. It's just like when 839 00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:31.960 you go in the house. You know, you don't stop 840 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:35.039 in the doorway. You push, you push through and and 841 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.360 you make decisions on the fly and you just trust 842 00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:39.599 your training and your instincts. 843 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:41.920 It's a it's a bit of a cliche, but I 844 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.280 mean I once heard someone say that a leader is 845 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.920 someone who takes the team somewhere that they couldn't go 846 00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.639 without them, right, And it sounds like he was that 847 00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:54.239 type of team sergeant that kind of filled that void 848 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.840 that was left by some of the previous leaders. 849 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.679 Absolutely when I when I e T S, you know 850 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:05.840 you do your uh your interview for your final uh 851 00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:08.320 and c oe are I think it is or whatever? 852 00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:14.800 And I told him, I said, uh, you know, this 853 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:17.639 team was one of the weakest teams in group and 854 00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:22.679 with the same personnel. Effectively we had to change of 855 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:24.800 leadership and now we were one of the best teams 856 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:25.199 in group. 857 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:26.239 And so. 858 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.199 You know that's that that is a kind of difference. 859 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.239 Amazing. 860 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:35.880 So tell us about that deployment going overseas with him. 861 00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:44.920 Well, uh, we we were set up to Taji at first, actually, 862 00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.400 which was a pretty nasty place, a lot of stuff 863 00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:50.639 going on up there on I DS and whatnot. We 864 00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.519 are pretty hungry to get in the action. So uh. 865 00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.719 He rode me pretty hard to always have targets on deck. 866 00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:01.000 He wanted, I forget how many, like ten targets are 867 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:04.159 like ten target folders ready to go at any one time. 868 00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.719 And so it took me a while to kind of 869 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:12.000 find my footing because I was pretty intimidated by Pitt 870 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.119 and I don't I have a difficult relationship with authority 871 00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:17.199 in general. 872 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:19.239 And so. 873 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:24.719 It was difficult being around Pitt at first, you know. 874 00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.400 And and I don't think he really trusted me and 875 00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:32.960 really thought that much of me at first, because well, 876 00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:36.840 I will say, I want a little bit of credit 877 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:42.079 because I got the honor graduate of the Fox course, 878 00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:46.639 which to me, I expected that of myself because I 879 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:51.320 was pretty academically advanced before I joined the Army, and 880 00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:55.280 so everything you learn in the Army is really not 881 00:51:56.440 --> 00:52:00.840 not difficult when you compare it to like college level, 882 00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:06.559 you know, calculus and and stuff like that. Yeah, so 883 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:10.880 I expected, I expected to do well. But but apparently 884 00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.000 that turned out to be a big thing back at 885 00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:16.000 the company. And I hadn't even told him about it. 886 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.599 They heard about it secondhand, and so I earned some 887 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:26.199 credit that way. But but I also I had had 888 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.559 one of my first big mix missteps with him in 889 00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:31.559 that first just a couple of weeks of Taji and 890 00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.800 we went out on a mission and uh, we're going 891 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.159 to go capture this guy. And I hadn't developed a 892 00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:42.400 target packet the previous team had. He was some shithead 893 00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:45.280 who was who was out there and and and this 894 00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:49.039 guy had This is going to sound silly, but the 895 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:54.239 guy had air conditioning at his house and if you 896 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:59.159 know about Iraq, no one has air conditioning, especially like 897 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:01.400 in the country, but this guy has air conditioning. And 898 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:04.679 you could see on the imagery all these air conditioning 899 00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:07.920 ducts all over his house and stuff. Well, you know, 900 00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:12.119 you don't just get that by being a general good 901 00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:16.119 person Iraqi. Uh And and I don't remember what all 902 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.960 else intelligence we had on him, but I remember I 903 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:25.440 remember that specifically, and so we we our first mission. 904 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:26.719 I think it was one of our first missions. It 905 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.920 was going to be kind of a test of the 906 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:31.760 team where we did a foot movement on foot from 907 00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:34.519 the from Taji from the base out to this guy's 908 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.119 place and ended up being I don't know what it 909 00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:41.840 was five miles or something. I can't remember it was. 910 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:45.920 It was just a grueling, grueling ordeal that we that 911 00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:52.199 we put ourselves through. But uh, you know, I want 912 00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:54.480 to make sure that I that I mentioned this because 913 00:53:56.480 --> 00:54:00.679 I want to also show people that I I make 914 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:06.400 lots of mistakes. Uh So, anyways, we're during one of 915 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:08.800 our you know, our movements. We're walking down we were 916 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:11.480 actually moving on a road at this point, and uh, 917 00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:15.079 I had my PBS fifteen's you know, they're real heavy. 918 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:18.079 That's that's a dual night vision one. They're real heavy. 919 00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:20.840 I had taken them off because my neck was getting tired. 920 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:23.480 I put them in my pouch. I hadn't put them 921 00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:26.119 in there properly, and in the little pouch, they said, 922 00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:30.719 and they fell out. And and uh yeah, so half 923 00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:33.880 a mile half a mile down the road, we uh 924 00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:39.119 I discovered that I didn't have my nods anymore. And uh, boy, 925 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:41.360 I tell you what, that's a that's a kind of 926 00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:44.159 feeling I don't want to ever have again. Yeah, it's 927 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.360 just that feeling of Jesus, How how could I be 928 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:51.360 so stupid? How could I, uh, you know, just do that? 929 00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:54.239 And and because it's a big it's a big deal. 930 00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:56.679 People maybe don't know it's a big deal when you 931 00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.960 lose night vision on a back on Fort Bragg or 932 00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:03.719 anywhere and a training mission. But when you're in country 933 00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:08.119 like that, and and you know, that's a that's a 934 00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:14.679 pretty pretty damn big deal. Anyways, when I was able 935 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.000 to run back and find him, and a guy went 936 00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.880 with me, and we found him, thank god. I don't 937 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.320 know what would happened to me if if we hadn't 938 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:25.199 found him. I don't know if I got a court 939 00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:26.920 martial or what. I probably would have been kicked out 940 00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:31.039 of groove. But anyways, so that was that was something 941 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:34.239 that that Pitt. You know, I sort of lost credit 942 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:38.320 after my gaining some credit with him, but he was 943 00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:40.800 he was a hell of a leader. And and eventually 944 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:42.920 I found you know, they moved us back to bad Dad, 945 00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.880 and I got in my groove as a fox, and 946 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:50.079 I worked in the morning tonight doing intel and I'm 947 00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:52.800 not joking from them from the moment I woke up 948 00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:55.119 to the to the moment I went to bed, I 949 00:55:55.239 --> 00:55:58.039 was reading reports and and I basically I don't know what, 950 00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:02.119 I don't know how what what clicked, what what switch 951 00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:05.039 flipped in my brain? But I had never I'd never 952 00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.519 really considered myself that hard of a worker. I would say, 953 00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.079 I don't think I had shown that kind of tendency 954 00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:17.800 towards that that direction. But something flipped and and I 955 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:22.679 just just poured everything into into finding shitheads and and 956 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:27.320 uh and that's then we started rolling basically just hitting 957 00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:31.599 targets all the time. And you know, as I mentioned before, 958 00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:35.480 we we've turned into a DA team and we we 959 00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:36.360 kept pretty busy. 960 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:42.920 Yeah, so so lay it onnest as you like get 961 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.000 into this sort of like rhythm of uh in this 962 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.519 sort of continuum of targeting that you're developing the intelligence, 963 00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:52.079 you're going out on targets, developing more intelligence. 964 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:58.000 Yeah, it's uh, it's a pretty it's a pretty cool 965 00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.280 thing when the team's running. Well, you know, we didn't 966 00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:04.000 we weren't developing a lot of our own intel. We 967 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:07.360 didn't have any any uh really s so qualified guys, 968 00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:10.920 But we're being in bag dad. We had intel coming 969 00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:15.559 in from everywhere. So so we were going on hits, 970 00:57:16.119 --> 00:57:19.079 you know, all the time as often as possible, basically, 971 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:22.280 And I was doing as my damnedest to keep that 972 00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:26.199 target deck full. And I'm just ready to go at 973 00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:26.719 any time. 974 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:29.559 You know. 975 00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:33.000 We're not going out every night or anything, but but 976 00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:38.039 a lot more frequently than than the other teams. And uh, 977 00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:41.360 you know, we never really got in any in any 978 00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:45.599 uh you know, like big prolonged firefights or battles or 979 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:50.880 anything like that. We were just and and in some ways, 980 00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:53.480 sometimes I look back at it, I'm like, I wish 981 00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:55.920 I could have, you know, said I was in this 982 00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:59.119 battle like you guys, remember when that religious cult came 983 00:57:59.159 --> 00:57:59.880 and attacked one of the. 984 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.400 Yeah, yeah, We've talked about that on here once or twice. 985 00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:06.280 Yeah, So I think if I remember right, I was 986 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.159 in country when that was going on, but I I can't. 987 00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:11.599 I can't say for sure, but I bet I remember 988 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.079 hearing about it, you know, and I was like, those 989 00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:17.199 guys are really getting in it. We I was kind 990 00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:19.840 of jealous of that, but we were doing we were 991 00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:22.679 doing hits, and but we were doing it in a 992 00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:25.599 different way because we're going in super fast and you know, 993 00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:27.960 the middle of the night, and we're we're blowing doors 994 00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:31.440 and we're snatching guys and and getting out of there, 995 00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:34.159 and so it was it was a little bit different 996 00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:39.039 kind of a of warfare, I guess for us than 997 00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:42.679 it was for some of those guys. But it was 998 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:47.519 still you know, you know, I had a lot of times, 999 00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:49.360 a lot of missions where I was pretty sure I 1000 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.599 was going to die. Uh. You know, we got hit, 1001 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.280 we took an I d like everybody else has done. 1002 00:58:57.079 --> 00:58:58.840 And uh again, I thought I was going to die 1003 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:03.320 on that. But I wasn't even injured. A couple couple 1004 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:07.599 of teammates were or one teammate and a couple of 1005 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:12.840 turps or one of our turps. But you know, We 1006 00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.639 were doing as much as we could to try to 1007 00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:20.599 do our part to you know, clear the battle space 1008 00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:22.840 of guys who are doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing. 1009 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:31.039 And by that time things were starting to shift. Now 1010 00:59:31.079 --> 00:59:34.280 you're starting to see the conops. Oh your con ops 1011 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:37.480 not doesn't have the right font. You know, we started 1012 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:41.719 that started to creep in right kind of over that deployment, 1013 00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:49.400 and ah, it was started to shift towards you couldn't 1014 00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.440 so you couldn't put our mission is to go kill 1015 00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:56.760 this guy X, the X guy whatever, kill or capture. 1016 00:59:57.079 --> 00:59:59.360 You couldn't put that anymore. It was it was capture 1017 00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.480 or detained, which is like the same thing, right, But 1018 01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:08.000 the mission started to shift as the deployment wore on 1019 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:12.719 from a war to essentially a police action, and the 1020 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:16.320 emphasis started to become on, hey, are you gathering evidence 1021 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:21.360 that this person is a bad guy? You know, what 1022 01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:23.719 kind of case can we make against them in court? 1023 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:27.880 That kind of thing. That really started to put a 1024 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.960 sour taste in my mouth and a lot of guys too. 1025 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:31.079 You know. 1026 01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:40.679 So once we uh we took an id I forget 1027 01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:43.239 when it was but towards the end of the deployment 1028 01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:49.960 and after that I think that they worried that we 1029 01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:53.880 were going to go back and sort of do retaliation 1030 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:57.599 against this area because we went over to the Uh 1031 01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:01.199 it was just south of Solders City. I can't remember 1032 01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:04.039 what it's called now, but I looked it up on 1033 01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:07.239 the map one time. We were doing just kind of 1034 01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:09.920 a presence patrol there. I don't I don't even know 1035 01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:12.239 why we were doing it, really, but he took an 1036 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:22.719 I D and and and uh, you know, I'm sick. Anyways, 1037 01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:27.760 I won't go into the details, but I was pretty 1038 01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:29.840 upset about it, and I was determined to find out 1039 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:32.199 who did it, and you know, as the fox, I 1040 01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:37.079 felt that was my responsibility. But they kind of pulled 1041 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:44.119 us off line and the commanded and they let another 1042 01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:52.119 team go in and prosecute the target ran out of my. 1043 01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:59.599 My bourbon there, so they so they brought in another team. 1044 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.199 They was that because your guys were injured or they 1045 01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:04.039 were just like I think you had mentioned that they 1046 01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:05.599 were afraid you guys were going to go on like 1047 01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.480 a revenge spree. Uh, if they've set you loose. 1048 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:13.639 They didn't tell us. They didn't. They didn't say that exactly, 1049 01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:17.239 But that's my that's My perception of it is they 1050 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.360 thought that we would go in and start killing people. 1051 01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.239 And you know, in the heat of the moment, I 1052 01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:24.199 had said that I wanted to go back there and 1053 01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:31.119 kill everybody. And you know, obviously we're not going to 1054 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:32.880 do that, right, But. 1055 01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:39.559 But there there's there's a certain amount of moral injury 1056 01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:44.400 that I imagine happens when your team suffers a loss 1057 01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:48.440 and you want to I don't want to say get revenge, 1058 01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:53.000 but you want to get the justice for that, and 1059 01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:54.800 they're like, you, guys, sit this out. 1060 01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.360 We're bringing somebody else to do it. 1061 01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:01.960 Yeah, it didn't sit well without us, but what are 1062 01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:04.599 you what are you gonna do? You know? And the 1063 01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:13.599 guys we were we exercised professional discipline in the entire trip. 1064 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:18.320 I did myself and and the guys did. And we 1065 01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:20.960 were not a team who was who was like a 1066 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:26.159 bloodthirsty team. And and especially with pitt As as our leader, 1067 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:31.079 you know, we were we're very professionally, we're very effective 1068 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:34.159 at efficient team that kind of thing. But you didn't 1069 01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:37.840 see uh from us. There wasn't a bunch of people 1070 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.960 shot who didn't need shot. There wasn't there wasn't, you know, 1071 01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:44.800 just just shooting even for just a hell of it. 1072 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:47.800 And and really that brings me kind of the next 1073 01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:54.079 point in the crossroads in my life. Uh, that there 1074 01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:57.280 was really impactful. I guess I didn't really realize at 1075 01:03:57.320 --> 01:03:59.840 the time, but when I but now is it, as 1076 01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:02.400 you know, more of an adult, I'd look back on that, 1077 01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:04.360 and I think that was that was a pretty big deal. 1078 01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:10.559 One day, on the second on our second deployment there, 1079 01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:17.280 we started taking uh heavy mortar, heavy rocket fire and uh, 1080 01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.800 we're so we're our compound situated right by the oil 1081 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:27.119 refinery in Baghdad, and we would take the compound would 1082 01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:30.239 take rockets because everybody dow we were there. They thought 1083 01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.880 we were an an agency team or something like that 1084 01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:38.239 there the bad guys did. So we take rockets and 1085 01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:41.559 mortars and stuff like that. And the oider refinery would 1086 01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:45.599 take rockets and orders. And I don't know if if 1087 01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:47.360 they got it because we were there, or we got 1088 01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:51.480 it because they were there, what, But regardless, one of 1089 01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:56.880 these days we started taking uh incoming pretty heavy and 1090 01:04:57.039 --> 01:05:02.679 clothes and and and so we're looking around trying to 1091 01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:05.679 see what's going on, and and it's this is these 1092 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:08.320 are rockets, for sure, not just not just mortars, big 1093 01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:11.679 big explosions, rocking the whole area, the whole house, you know. 1094 01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:16.360 And uh and and somebody yells out, hey, there, we 1095 01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.159 got a spotter on the roof. And you know, you 1096 01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:22.599 guys know that somebody on the roof with a cell 1097 01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:27.199 phone during a during a rocket attack typically means yeah, 1098 01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:30.199 that's a spotter, right, yeah. And they're calling and they're 1099 01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:35.000 and they're directing fire onto you. So I get I 1100 01:05:35.079 --> 01:05:37.440 get grabbed the Mark thirteen, which I which was my 1101 01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:40.239 sniper rifle, and I always had set up and I 1102 01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:44.000 had my whole rage range cards and you know, uh, 1103 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:48.719 I had the whole area laid out right. And so 1104 01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:51.559 we see this guy, he's across the river. I want 1105 01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:54.039 to say, he was only three hundred meters something like that. 1106 01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.679 And uh and the captain gets up on the spotter 1107 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.960 and he says, and you know we and we of 1108 01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:04.760 course I DM and draw down on him, you know, 1109 01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.440 And I got my I got my dope tiled, which 1110 01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:11.159 I think might've been point blank at that point. But 1111 01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:14.320 the team start of comes over the radio says take 1112 01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:17.599 the shot, and I'm on the Mark thirteen and and 1113 01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:20.880 and I'm brought ready to shoot this guy standing there 1114 01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:22.639 with the cell phone on the top, and he's looking 1115 01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:25.159 at us. You know, of course he is, because there's 1116 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:27.880 like explosions going on, you know, he's trying to see 1117 01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:31.719 what's going on. Well, something kind of just clicks in 1118 01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:35.239 my head. I was like, that's a lot of that's 1119 01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:37.360 a lot of rockets, because it was like at that point, 1120 01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:39.920 it was like four or five maybe that had come 1121 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:45.360 in like, man, something's not quite right. And so I 1122 01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:48.840 didn't shoot him, and I put around into like the ground, 1123 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:51.239 you know, kind of away from him, and he went away. 1124 01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:54.880 And it turns out that it was a dang the 1125 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.239 artillery unit from that big army base. So it's down 1126 01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:03.440 in Southwest bag down there, they're putting one fifty fives 1127 01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:07.519 into a into a palm grove just on the other 1128 01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:10.840 side of the or refinery because they're just doing terrain 1129 01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:13.480 denial there and they never told us, and we thought 1130 01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:16.360 they're yeah, we thought they were walking rockets onto our 1131 01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:20.679 onto our compound under our house. You know. So anyways, 1132 01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:23.239 kind of a long story. But as I think about 1133 01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:31.199 it now, like yeah, yeah, and if i'd have shot 1134 01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:34.960 that guy, uh, you know, how would my life have 1135 01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:43.920 taken you know, a different turn. Yeah, because in hindsight, 1136 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:48.320 he obviously wasn't doing anything wrong, but probably not. Anyways, 1137 01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:52.119 you know, some of those guys, a lot of them 1138 01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:55.760 are doing something wrong, but you know he he wasn't, uh, 1139 01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:58.679 And so anyways, I look at that, I kind of 1140 01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:01.639 I kind of consider, as I said, my life has 1141 01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:04.079 been sort of the direction of taken has been almost 1142 01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:05.719 as much stuff I didn't do and stuff I did 1143 01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.199 do right, And that was one of them. 1144 01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:10.039 Iraq. 1145 01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:14.159 I'm both at right and I understand there were a 1146 01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:19.039 lot of very hard decisions being made all the time 1147 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:22.840 by you know, not just guys with a couple of 1148 01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:26.199 trips under the belt, like yourself, but by you know, 1149 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:28.960 some eighteen year old PB two sitting in a in 1150 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:31.439 a you know, on the gun on a humvee that 1151 01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:34.000 you know, you're rolling down the road and you see 1152 01:08:34.079 --> 01:08:37.239 somebody on a cell phone and it's like is this 1153 01:08:37.399 --> 01:08:41.279 guy is like is he going to detonate? Something like 1154 01:08:41.359 --> 01:08:43.840 if I don't shoot him, are my friends going to die? 1155 01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:46.359 Because I don't if I do shoot him, And he's 1156 01:08:46.520 --> 01:08:49.560 just an idiot who's standing by a convoy with a 1157 01:08:49.640 --> 01:08:54.079 cell phone, you know, and like those are decisions that 1158 01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:56.159 people had to make all the time, and they never 1159 01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:59.279 knew if they were right or wrong until after the fact, 1160 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:00.640 and sometimes they didn't even know that. 1161 01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:07.760 Yeah, you know, yeah exactly. And how many how many 1162 01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:09.800 of those guys have carried that kind of stuff? You know, 1163 01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:16.680 who did take the shot and and you know how 1164 01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:18.840 many how many people has that affected? 1165 01:09:19.039 --> 01:09:19.239 Yeah? 1166 01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:21.600 Or who didn't take the shot? And they got blown up? 1167 01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:24.079 And it's like, was that the guy? Was that the 1168 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:26.680 guy that killed my friends that I could have shot 1169 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:27.119 and didn't. 1170 01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:32.199 Yeah, Yeah, that's a lot of it's a lot to 1171 01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:38.439 put on you know, a twenty twenty something, Yeah, it is. 1172 01:09:38.600 --> 01:09:40.800 It's a lot of that's a lot of stuff there. Yeah. 1173 01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:47.920 But uh so anyways, uh as as that as that 1174 01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:54.239 deployment ended, that's that's when they sort of brought online, 1175 01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:56.640 you know, the conop restrictions are becoming worse and worse. 1176 01:09:56.680 --> 01:09:59.640 And then they they brought out they came out with us, hey, hey, 1177 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:04.279 don't don't target jam, which is shaw Mahdi for you know, yeah, 1178 01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:09.000 people who don't know that's the uh Mahdi is the 1179 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.199 h MS guys. But they're the not the soones of 1180 01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:21.800 the sh that's the sha militia. And you know, really, 1181 01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:27.159 by the time of our second deployment, these guys are 1182 01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.640 the Iraqis are fighting each other as much or more 1183 01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:34.399 as they're fighting us. I mean, those guys are doing 1184 01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:39.520 unspeakable things to each other, and people maybe don't realize that, 1185 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.640 but the kind of stuff that we're finding out about 1186 01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:48.760 and whatnot, I mean just just sub human behavior on 1187 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:50.800 a on a lot of the part those guys there. 1188 01:10:51.560 --> 01:10:56.640 And that's why I call them shitheads, you know. Uh, 1189 01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:00.840 I gotta say one just as an aside. I'm always 1190 01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:04.640 jealous of the World War Two guys who who get 1191 01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:09.880 together with the German you know, guys at some reunion 1192 01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:13.239 when they're sixty years old, and they will shipping about 1193 01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:15.720 their day, you know, on their their buddies and whatnot. 1194 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:18.520 You hear about that kind of stuff, And I'm like, 1195 01:11:18.680 --> 01:11:21.319 that's never going to happen for us, you know, because 1196 01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:26.000 of because of the kind of behavior that those that 1197 01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:27.800 they were doing, the kind of the kind of things 1198 01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:32.319 they were doing to each other, that's just not we 1199 01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:34.279 We're just never going to have that. And I'm kind 1200 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:37.399 of kind of jealous of those guys, the World War 1201 01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:39.680 Two guys for that and maybe the Vietnam guys. I 1202 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:44.960 don't really know as much. But anyways, Uh, I would 1203 01:11:44.960 --> 01:11:46.600 tell that. I would tell the guys when we got 1204 01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:51.359 on target, we'd snatch up who we're looking for or whatever, 1205 01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:55.439 and and I would I would tell everybody else, Hey, 1206 01:11:56.520 --> 01:12:00.520 if you stop killing each other the America and we'll leave, 1207 01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:02.720 We'll get out of here, because by that time, we 1208 01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:05.439 all just want to go home, you know, why not? 1209 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:08.359 And and you guys know how it is, a lot 1210 01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:09.960 of those guys didn't. A lot of the Iraqis didn't 1211 01:12:09.960 --> 01:12:13.720 want us to leave. They want us there because they 1212 01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:15.960 knew there was some stability with us there, and they 1213 01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:18.119 knew what was going to happen with the Iraqi army 1214 01:12:18.199 --> 01:12:20.239 when they when they would take over when we left, 1215 01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:24.000 So you know, what are you going to do? 1216 01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:24.359 Right? 1217 01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:27.920 But that was kind of the state of affairs, is 1218 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:31.359 basically what I'm trying to say is, you know, these 1219 01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:33.119 guys are killing each other and then they tell us 1220 01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:37.760 stop targeting the largest terrorist organization in the city. 1221 01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:38.680 Uh. 1222 01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:42.399 And so that was that was kind of the sunset 1223 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:44.279 of our of our tour, and then we came home 1224 01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:45.720 just you know, shortly after that. 1225 01:12:46.239 --> 01:12:49.720 Yeah, and at that point, what's going through your heads? 1226 01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:52.279 You went to nineteenth Group at that point, were you 1227 01:12:52.359 --> 01:12:54.479 thinking about going to school? I mean, what was kind 1228 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:56.880 of like going through your mind during that time period. 1229 01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:03.560 Well so, so I got out because of sort of 1230 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:06.359 that bitterness of that original what happened to the team 1231 01:13:07.199 --> 01:13:09.680 and being up there at CSTAF and seeing that kind 1232 01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:12.399 of stuff, and then the general just a general jackassery 1233 01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:16.479 that goes on in the army. Uh. And also I 1234 01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:18.720 just considered that the war was over. You know, I 1235 01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:21.560 was like, yeah, that's it's not a war anymore. So 1236 01:13:21.760 --> 01:13:25.359 it's either somewhat of a you know, anti insurgency and 1237 01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:29.640 her counterinsurgency and somewhat of a police police action. And 1238 01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.159 and you know that's when they had the surge going 1239 01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:34.399 on and the and the regular army. They were using 1240 01:13:34.439 --> 01:13:36.720 the army as nation building at that point basically, which 1241 01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:39.800 is which is the wrong thing to do. But so 1242 01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:43.399 I got off active duty. I joined nineteenth Group because 1243 01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.920 my my buddy had said that his data had been 1244 01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:48.640 in the in the Guard s F and had a 1245 01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:51.640 really cool experience and and I wasn't ready to sort 1246 01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:54.920 of you know, put that all behind me, and you know, 1247 01:13:55.399 --> 01:13:58.520 for the longest time I wished I was deployed again. 1248 01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:01.720 I mean even back and when I was in Colorado 1249 01:14:01.880 --> 01:14:04.039 and but not. All I wanted to do is be 1250 01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:12.000 be deployed again. It sounds crazy, uh, but uh, but 1251 01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:15.399 that's you know, that's how it was. You know, Uh, 1252 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:19.680 there was a certain Uh I tell people that it's 1253 01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:23.439 a there's a a very interesting purity of purpose there 1254 01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:27.840 where you're you don't worry about the power bill, you 1255 01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:32.119 don't worry about how you're going to feed yourself so much. Uh, 1256 01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:38.039 you don't worry about much other than the mission, doing 1257 01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:42.439 the mission, keeping yourself alive, uh, trying to take bad 1258 01:14:42.479 --> 01:14:46.079 guys off the battlefield, and and you know, trying to 1259 01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:49.039 trying to keep your teammates alive and help out as 1260 01:14:49.079 --> 01:14:53.039 many as many people as you can. You don't have 1261 01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:55.800 that back in the States. And that's part of the 1262 01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:58.760 that's part of the lure of being deployed. And then 1263 01:14:58.840 --> 01:15:00.640 part of it is just there's just something about it. 1264 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:05.840 Like you guys know, there's something about about combat and 1265 01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:10.079 the deployment that that you can't you can't explain to 1266 01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:13.920 anybody else who hasn't done it. It's just it's just something. 1267 01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:22.680 But nineteenth group was I was served in there with 1268 01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:26.880 some very impressive people, some guys that I think very 1269 01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:37.159 highly of. The overall experience, I wasn't impressed with. It's like, 1270 01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:45.159 can you name me one part time NFL quarterback? That's 1271 01:15:45.239 --> 01:15:50.239 kind of how I look at it, right. It's being 1272 01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:55.039 Special Forces is it's it's it's something that is like 1273 01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:58.039 a full time you're dedicated to that task kind of thing. 1274 01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.279 And being in the Colorado Guard was a little bit 1275 01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:07.319 different too. The Texas guys had an amazing experience as 1276 01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:09.960 a hell of a unit down there. They're well funded, 1277 01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:14.319 they're they're well regarded by the state, and you know, 1278 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:16.960 they keep them at that time. This is all this 1279 01:16:17.159 --> 01:16:22.720 is all nearly twenty years ago now, but I had 1280 01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:24.640 definitely had some good experiences and met a lot of 1281 01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:28.720 good people in the Guard. And I didn't to play 1282 01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:32.520 with the Guard. I was. I ended up training training 1283 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.640 up people who are going to selection. So I was 1284 01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:37.319 like a Sapsey instructor is kind of how I ended up. 1285 01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:40.640 It's interesting, like the guys I've spoken to like it 1286 01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:42.520 seems with the Guard like they either love it or 1287 01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:45.560 they hate it, Like it really goes in either direction. 1288 01:16:47.439 --> 01:16:49.920 Yeah, a lot of guys have had amazing experiences in 1289 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:56.079 the Guard. My buddy Matt Pacino went into the Guarden, 1290 01:16:56.199 --> 01:16:59.720 like Massachusetts or something. Fortunately he was killed in Afghanistan, 1291 01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:01.960 but he, you know, he was a he was a 1292 01:17:02.039 --> 01:17:03.800 hell of a dude. He was a guard, you know, 1293 01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:06.800 fifth group to guard and he and I think he 1294 01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:11.159 really enjoyed his his time in there while he was there. Uh, 1295 01:17:12.600 --> 01:17:14.720 the guys that I was with, everybody on active duty 1296 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:20.319 left immediately left the Guard, left that unit immediately, everybody 1297 01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:25.439 I can think of. Anyways, it was just I don't know, 1298 01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:27.680 I don't I'm trying to I don't want to say 1299 01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:32.399 anything too negative. So but it wasn't my favorite experience 1300 01:17:32.479 --> 01:17:32.800 for sure. 1301 01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:36.520 So what was the next thing for you? You know, 1302 01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:38.640 I guess you decided to leave the Guard at that point? 1303 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:40.680 And what was it like going into the private sector? 1304 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:47.880 Uh, you know, it's so I had obviously the Guard's 1305 01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:53.840 part time. So when I my last little bit in 1306 01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:59.119 the army, I had designed a rifle and when I 1307 01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:03.560 got off active duty, I bought a lathe and a 1308 01:18:03.680 --> 01:18:08.439 milling machine with my you know, combat pay, saved up 1309 01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:11.720 combat pay, and I learned how to use those things. 1310 01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:15.159 And I made this rifle. This is two thousand and seven. 1311 01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:20.279 By a chance occurrence, I ran into some guys from 1312 01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:27.119 mag Gol. They're they're at the shooting match and I 1313 01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:29.560 ended up getting a meeting with them and showing them 1314 01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:31.439 this rifle I made. And I had also made the 1315 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:36.239 stock for Remington seven hundred, and I caught their eye 1316 01:18:36.279 --> 01:18:39.600 and so they hired me. And this was in you know, 1317 01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:44.000 late two thousand and seven, and so I went straight 1318 01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:47.039 from not straight, I mean I had a summer basically 1319 01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:49.279 where I was just kind of chilling and working on 1320 01:18:49.359 --> 01:18:52.079 this rifle. But then I went I went into working 1321 01:18:52.119 --> 01:18:55.279 for mag Gool after that, and right into the firearms 1322 01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:59.640 industry and then doing the guard thing on the side. 1323 01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:04.960 Obvious one one week and a months deal, but that 1324 01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:08.239 was very incredible. No one knew who Magpoll was back then. 1325 01:19:09.119 --> 01:19:12.479 That was like just as the p mag was, I 1326 01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:14.880 mean not even really gaining steam, just kind of starting 1327 01:19:14.960 --> 01:19:20.760 to pick up. And I worked on the Masada, which 1328 01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:24.239 was one of the most anticipated rifles at the time, 1329 01:19:24.319 --> 01:19:27.279 and so Magpull went from it was in the process 1330 01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:30.680 of going from like this no name, nothing company to 1331 01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:34.239 yeah they made good stuff, but now they're doing this 1332 01:19:34.439 --> 01:19:39.000 Masada rifle which became the Bushmaster ACR, and they're doing 1333 01:19:39.039 --> 01:19:41.159 all these cool things. They got the p mag which 1334 01:19:41.159 --> 01:19:45.119 everyone is you know, has a million of now, and 1335 01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:47.560 so I was really on the ground not quite the 1336 01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:50.680 ground floor, but you know, pretty early on. And they're 1337 01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:54.600 in that process of the sort of the growth and 1338 01:19:54.760 --> 01:19:57.760 the really exciting products coming out of magpool. 1339 01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:00.760 That's pretty cool. I mean, it's pretty cool that you 1340 01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:04.399 designed and built your own pRIFLE in your free time. 1341 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.239 Yeah. Yeah, I was. I've always been kind of mechanically minded, 1342 01:20:09.359 --> 01:20:14.159 so it was it was, uh, I don't know, I 1343 01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:15.279 guess that's just me. 1344 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:15.720 You know. 1345 01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:21.840 We when I was younger, I had made a maybe 1346 01:20:21.960 --> 01:20:26.880 some things that could be used as suppressors, you know, 1347 01:20:26.920 --> 01:20:29.840 in case the ATF is listening. But you know, so 1348 01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:31.800 I used to be into all that kind of stuff. 1349 01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:32.079 You know. 1350 01:20:32.479 --> 01:20:34.159 I was one of those guys, one of the charlies 1351 01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:37.039 who went home and started making stuff in my kitchen, 1352 01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:40.720 you know, even though they told us to be really 1353 01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:43.560 careful about that kind of stuff. Explosives, you know, so 1354 01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:47.319 what I'm talking about. Uh So I's just been that 1355 01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:51.079 that kind of guy. But you know, it was very 1356 01:20:54.359 --> 01:20:57.159 it was very fortunate too that they took a chance 1357 01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:01.000 on me. And I was getting ready to go become 1358 01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:04.479 a sniper for a contractor like I don't know, Triple 1359 01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:08.960 Canopy or somebody, and then Magpull offered me that position, 1360 01:21:09.079 --> 01:21:10.640 and I was him and and hat and my brother 1361 01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:13.039 told me, hey, you were you were born to do this, 1362 01:21:14.079 --> 01:21:17.199 and so that's what I so I took the Magpool position, 1363 01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:19.079 even though it didn't pay much, because you as an 1364 01:21:19.159 --> 01:21:21.079 SF guy, you can make a lot of money contract 1365 01:21:21.159 --> 01:21:24.760 and sure in those days. Uh So, it was a 1366 01:21:25.520 --> 01:21:28.560 that was a life changing experience for me. I worked 1367 01:21:28.600 --> 01:21:34.720 with some amazing industrial designers there surprisingly not a lot 1368 01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:37.680 of those guys had any kind of real firearms expertise 1369 01:21:38.319 --> 01:21:40.520 as far as like the handling, the usage side of 1370 01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:43.279 the Indian user side, you know what I mean. Uh So, 1371 01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:45.520 I was one of the guys that they leaned on 1372 01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:49.520 for that. And then gradually I learned solid Works and 1373 01:21:53.720 --> 01:21:55.600 I learned the solid Works which is the three D 1374 01:21:55.680 --> 01:21:59.159 design software, and then I became part of the design team, 1375 01:21:59.800 --> 01:22:02.520 and I've worked on a lot of the different products 1376 01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:10.079 that they that they put out, and then worked on 1377 01:22:10.479 --> 01:22:13.720 mainly the three to eight version of the Masada rifle, 1378 01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:20.520 which still has not entered commercial production, but is is 1379 01:22:20.600 --> 01:22:25.039 coming from our company, So it's been in progress like 1380 01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:30.279 nearly twenty years now. But I was very, very lucky, 1381 01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:34.159 and that set me up to then transition to our 1382 01:22:34.199 --> 01:22:37.279 own company with my you know, my brother and my 1383 01:22:37.359 --> 01:22:39.600 business partner who was a fifth group guy with me 1384 01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:48.239 way back even into the course, John Lucas. So before 1385 01:22:48.319 --> 01:22:53.279 I finally got out of the Guard, I went to selection, 1386 01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:59.079 you know, Delta selection, and I had to give it 1387 01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:03.600 a shot. And and you know, that's kind of one 1388 01:23:03.640 --> 01:23:07.439 of the high points or interesting points to me in 1389 01:23:07.560 --> 01:23:13.800 my life. And uh, I didn't. I didn't really. I 1390 01:23:13.880 --> 01:23:16.119 don't know that I was really dedicated or really that 1391 01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:20.239 I really wanted to be there that bad. But I 1392 01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:21.960 knew that I had to give it a shot because 1393 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:23.520 I was I was getting out of the Guard, so 1394 01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:25.640 it was like my last chance, you know. I knew 1395 01:23:25.640 --> 01:23:28.199 I wasn't going to going back to active duty. Uh 1396 01:23:29.239 --> 01:23:33.680 And so I tried that out and I basically self 1397 01:23:33.680 --> 01:23:37.800 selected and I quit and you know, went back to 1398 01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.000 my civilian life at that point. 1399 01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:45.159 So so that that was kind of the decision point 1400 01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:47.039 for you, like I'm I'm out of the Army here. 1401 01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:51.800 Uh yeah, I knew I was getting out of the guard. 1402 01:23:52.319 --> 01:23:56.800 But you know, it's I had heard that everyone everyone 1403 01:23:56.880 --> 01:23:59.640 in s fos it to themselves to go to selection 1404 01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:05.119 to see how this is. This is the saying, I'm 1405 01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:08.560 not trying to disparage anybody, but see how a truly 1406 01:24:08.640 --> 01:24:14.159 professional organization is run. And and and I did, and 1407 01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:18.680 I was impressed, and you know, I got myself an 1408 01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:24.680 amazing shape. But in the end, I uh, you know, 1409 01:24:26.039 --> 01:24:27.800 I think I just got wrapped up in my own 1410 01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.840 head and I quit. And I've always been a pretty hot, 1411 01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:34.640 like sort of higher level anxiety kind of guy, and 1412 01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:37.319 just kind of I just thought, Ah, these guys, you know, 1413 01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:39.399 I'm not what they're looking for. And also I didn't 1414 01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:42.319 really I thought all they did was siki me and 1415 01:24:42.359 --> 01:24:44.239 I really wasn't in love with that idea, you know, 1416 01:24:44.359 --> 01:24:51.119 after doing it for a while. So h yeah, that's 1417 01:24:51.399 --> 01:24:56.079 that's kind of the gist of that. But it was 1418 01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.800 it really just I'm not proud of quitting, but it 1419 01:25:01.880 --> 01:25:06.079 also just wasn't my path. Yes, it was. 1420 01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:09.159 A decision point for you, like there there there's. 1421 01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:13.680 Like there's no there's no dishonor there's no shame in 1422 01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:16.760 like realizing that something isn't for you. 1423 01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:18.479 Or that you have other priorities. 1424 01:25:20.439 --> 01:25:22.800 Well they you know, they people used to say that 1425 01:25:22.920 --> 01:25:26.039 in s F selection and it was like the answer 1426 01:25:26.079 --> 01:25:28.159 to that was, well, how this is not what group 1427 01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:32.079 is like? You know, how could you quit during s 1428 01:25:32.239 --> 01:25:34.800 F selection? Yeah, that's not this is not what groups like. 1429 01:25:35.119 --> 01:25:37.520 It's the right of it, you know. And I and 1430 01:25:37.680 --> 01:25:40.359 I did never I never did find out what what 1431 01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:43.439 delta is like. Now I've heard I've heard stuff from 1432 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:46.319 the guys who come on your show and stuff that 1433 01:25:46.359 --> 01:25:50.079 you've interviewed. I'm like, man, that'd have been really cool. Yeah, 1434 01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:52.920 you know, it isn't just a bunch of knunckle draggers, 1435 01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:55.720 you know doing CQB. They got a lot of cool 1436 01:25:55.760 --> 01:25:58.640 stuff going on, you know, a lot of interesting things. 1437 01:25:59.359 --> 01:26:02.159 So I kind of I kind of was bummed about 1438 01:26:02.199 --> 01:26:05.359 that a little bit. But at the same time, you know, 1439 01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:09.600 my my path was set, Like you know, my brother 1440 01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:12.159 was right. I think I was born to to be 1441 01:26:12.319 --> 01:26:16.359 a designer, you know, and and for that in that time, 1442 01:26:16.479 --> 01:26:21.279 it was firearms and it still is so and I 1443 01:26:21.359 --> 01:26:23.840 still I still designed the products for KG. 1444 01:26:25.119 --> 01:26:30.520 Tell us about that about going from Magpole to starting 1445 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:32.640 your own company with your friends KRG. 1446 01:26:34.279 --> 01:26:38.159 Yeah. So we Uh, I was gonna go, I was 1447 01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:39.880 gonna leave Magpool and then I was going to go 1448 01:26:40.079 --> 01:26:42.640 contract in order to build up some money to then 1449 01:26:42.760 --> 01:26:44.960 strike out of my own and my but my brother 1450 01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:47.960 had already been contractant for oh Man, he did like 1451 01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:52.399 four years or something. At that point. He wasn't he 1452 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:54.319 wasn't that far into it, but he had saved up 1453 01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:55.840 some money and said, hey, what if I just put 1454 01:26:55.880 --> 01:26:58.760 in this money and you get started right away? And 1455 01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:02.439 uh and and John had this idea for this product, 1456 01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:04.720 which was which is our boat lift. It's a little 1457 01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:06.880 boat mob that you put on the Remickton seven hundred 1458 01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:10.199 for for people who can't do any kind of permanent 1459 01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:15.880 modifications to their rifles, their snake rifles, and and so 1460 01:27:16.039 --> 01:27:18.680 we all basically just found this company and my brother 1461 01:27:18.760 --> 01:27:21.960 funded it, and then I lived off of my you know, 1462 01:27:22.239 --> 01:27:24.760 savings from combat pay and this, you know, working the 1463 01:27:24.840 --> 01:27:30.119 Magpole and stuff like that, and so for we started 1464 01:27:30.199 --> 01:27:33.479 in my garage and and that at the first. At 1465 01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:36.119 first I did everything, you know, I machined parts and 1466 01:27:37.960 --> 01:27:42.319 design stuff and whatnot. And and then once our little 1467 01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:44.880 boat lift things started selling. My mom started working for 1468 01:27:45.000 --> 01:27:47.119 free for us, and I was working for free, you know, 1469 01:27:47.359 --> 01:27:50.800 And and it was just one of those deals where 1470 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:53.239 we just kind of gradually picked up steam just over 1471 01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:53.920 the years, you know. 1472 01:27:54.039 --> 01:28:02.479 And Monster Garage was that Monster garage. Yeah, to the building, 1473 01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:04.039 to the shipping. That's awesome. 1474 01:28:05.840 --> 01:28:08.439 Yeah. And you know, we've had a lot of luck 1475 01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:12.279 along the way too, and a lot of a lot 1476 01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:15.479 of things have gone our way. You know, a lot 1477 01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:18.399 of things haven't gone our way too. But we were 1478 01:28:18.560 --> 01:28:23.439 we're lucky to be getting into the to this industry 1479 01:28:23.520 --> 01:28:26.600 right at the time when every all the boats were rising, 1480 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:28.840 right because there was a lot of g wants spending. 1481 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:32.399 There's a lot of interest in firearms. And then you had, 1482 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:35.720 you know, without getting too much into politics, he had 1483 01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:37.960 Obama become president and there was a lot of anti 1484 01:28:38.039 --> 01:28:41.399 gun talks, so people were spending crazy money on firearms 1485 01:28:41.399 --> 01:28:46.039 and everything. Uh So yeah, I was we just you know, 1486 01:28:46.560 --> 01:28:48.760 I worked my ass off. Everyone worked their ass off. 1487 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:51.239 My brother was still contracting, pulling in money. I was 1488 01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:55.279 spending my savings down and then so then I ended 1489 01:28:55.399 --> 01:28:57.720 up using my gi bi able to go back to 1490 01:28:57.840 --> 01:29:03.000 college and I studied philosophy, going for a philosophy degree. 1491 01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:05.920 And then I was getting money because you get a 1492 01:29:05.960 --> 01:29:07.720 stipend as part of the g I build. I was 1493 01:29:07.760 --> 01:29:11.359 paying for my housing and stuff. Uh. And then I 1494 01:29:11.720 --> 01:29:15.439 went to contracting with Blackbirds, like I had mentioned earlier. 1495 01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:21.039 But that that and that kept U that kept us going, 1496 01:29:21.640 --> 01:29:23.479 you know. And and I you know, I lived like 1497 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:27.680 a college kid, ah and didn't take didn't take money. 1498 01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:30.399 I mean it was years you know, ramen noodles and 1499 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:35.039 and not not spending money on stuff. And uh. And 1500 01:29:35.319 --> 01:29:38.279 you know, I've I've been I feel like I've been 1501 01:29:38.399 --> 01:29:40.880 rewarded life is. I feel like life has rewarded me, 1502 01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:46.239 uh for for hard work and then some of the 1503 01:29:46.439 --> 01:29:49.079 some of the hard choices I made when I raised 1504 01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:51.039 my hand and you know, said yeah, I'll do it. 1505 01:29:52.520 --> 01:29:57.880 And that leads you into uh, you're now working with J. 1506 01:29:58.119 --> 01:30:01.319 Golt Aircraft, another one of your companies, and so you're 1507 01:30:01.439 --> 01:30:04.720 you're not a totally unrelated but I mean from firearms 1508 01:30:04.760 --> 01:30:06.279 to aircraft, it's a pretty big jump. 1509 01:30:07.960 --> 01:30:12.920 Yeah, it really is. So you know, again, very fortunate 1510 01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:16.439 that we were able to grow the company. And then 1511 01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:19.239 I want to say twenty seventeen, I was able to 1512 01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:22.239 start taking lessons to become a pilot, and I learned 1513 01:30:22.279 --> 01:30:27.960 to fly, and then sort of that childhood love of 1514 01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:32.600 airplanes was kind of rekindled, you know. And I'd seen 1515 01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:38.239 this replica Spitfire when I was in college, and I 1516 01:30:38.359 --> 01:30:41.159 was like, man, that'd be so cool, because I figured 1517 01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:43.720 I'd never be able to afford a real Spitfire, which 1518 01:30:43.760 --> 01:30:47.159 they sell for around four million. Now I still can't 1519 01:30:47.159 --> 01:30:51.079 afford one, but I wanted to get this replica. And 1520 01:30:53.279 --> 01:30:56.079 I talked to these guys and anyways, turned out that 1521 01:30:56.159 --> 01:30:58.359 we were taught about just going down there and buying 1522 01:30:58.399 --> 01:31:03.119 them out, this whole company that makes these little plants. Anyways, 1523 01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:06.039 the company was, it wasn't the deal didn't happen. It 1524 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:09.359 just didn't come together. But we thought, man, we could 1525 01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:14.119 we could just make our own, which was a really 1526 01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:16.359 neat a really neat thought, and one of the dumbest 1527 01:31:16.399 --> 01:31:18.600 things we ever thought about, you know, all and wrapped 1528 01:31:18.680 --> 01:31:22.640 up in one you know. But so by that, you 1529 01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:25.359 know a few years later, this maybe I don't know, 1530 01:31:25.439 --> 01:31:28.840 four or five years ago, I'm kind of getting burned 1531 01:31:28.880 --> 01:31:31.760 out from just working morning tonight on the on the 1532 01:31:31.840 --> 01:31:36.000 firearms side, and you know, I didn't have social life 1533 01:31:36.039 --> 01:31:40.520 and that kind of stuff. I was, you know, I 1534 01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:46.359 was very fortunate in twenty fifteen I met my uh 1535 01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:49.720 now my wife, and that's most that's been one of 1536 01:31:49.760 --> 01:31:52.039 those other like really defining points in my life. So 1537 01:31:52.239 --> 01:31:57.359 that's been a big deal. But but other than that, 1538 01:31:57.800 --> 01:32:02.720 you know, and she's been amazing and and sort of, uh, 1539 01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:06.640 I've sort of become a little more balanced. But before that, 1540 01:32:06.760 --> 01:32:11.479 it was just I mean, work and and and uh 1541 01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:16.439 and exercise. That was my day, you know. So I 1542 01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:18.399 needed to step away, and I kind of I kind 1543 01:32:18.439 --> 01:32:20.880 of started stepping back from running the whole company, the 1544 01:32:21.000 --> 01:32:25.159 kre GEE, which is Kinetic Research Group, and the and 1545 01:32:25.239 --> 01:32:29.319 the kinetic comes from obviously, you know, kinetic energy, but 1546 01:32:29.399 --> 01:32:38.520 also kinetic strikes. H. So I started to push more 1547 01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:40.479 into the aircraft side. We said, hey, we could just 1548 01:32:41.079 --> 01:32:44.039 build our own uh design to build our own aircraft 1549 01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:46.680 as replica. And so that's what I've been working on. 1550 01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:51.680 And I started with, ah, you know, all these books 1551 01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:56.279 you see behind me, that's virtually every aircraft design book 1552 01:32:57.039 --> 01:33:00.439 that's ever been written. And so just started going through 1553 01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:03.960 those books and and learning and uh. 1554 01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:08.880 You know, are you building a spitfire in your garage now? 1555 01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:12.840 Is that what you're telling me, Well, we we've upgraded 1556 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:17.199 the garage, we have a hangar now, So yeah, that's 1557 01:33:17.359 --> 01:33:21.479 that's essentially what's going on. Yeah, so we're we're several 1558 01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:24.439 years into it and a voteload of money for sure. 1559 01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:27.239 But it's it's a hell of a it's a hell 1560 01:33:27.279 --> 01:33:31.680 of an experience. It's it's an incredible learning experience. And 1561 01:33:32.880 --> 01:33:37.159 you know, I tell you it's I think everybody should. 1562 01:33:39.119 --> 01:33:41.439 You know, life's short, and I think it's personally, I 1563 01:33:41.439 --> 01:33:46.239 think it's too short to do one thing. And but 1564 01:33:46.439 --> 01:33:49.279 also and some people that's not that you know, they 1565 01:33:49.319 --> 01:33:51.680 don't feel that way. That's okay, but but I think 1566 01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:55.760 it's also you need to always be challenging yourself and 1567 01:33:55.880 --> 01:33:57.720 you need to keep your you need to keep your 1568 01:33:57.760 --> 01:34:03.399 brain functioning by by learning new things and and just 1569 01:34:03.520 --> 01:34:05.479 taking one of one of these big risks is kind 1570 01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:08.000 of one of those things. You know, like, you know, 1571 01:34:08.199 --> 01:34:10.359 you could do it whatever you wanted. You know, you 1572 01:34:10.399 --> 01:34:13.760 could take up you know, the piano or something, or 1573 01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:17.039 try to learn a new language or something like that. 1574 01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:18.960 But I think that's very important in life. 1575 01:34:19.479 --> 01:34:22.000 Yeah, but you were pretty big there justin you didn't 1576 01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:24.720 just like yeah, let me learn Spanish on duo linga 1577 01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:27.560 or something like that. You're a self a self taught 1578 01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:32.000 firearms designer and aircraft manufacturer. That's a that's a big 1579 01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:34.600 weak man. I'm jealous. You've got the type of brain 1580 01:34:34.680 --> 01:34:36.000 that can do that. That's amazing. 1581 01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:40.760 Well, I think, thank you, that's quite a compliment. But 1582 01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:47.800 I I feel like I feel like I'm probably I 1583 01:34:48.399 --> 01:34:54.800 may have maybe a little more intellectual capability than average, 1584 01:34:55.399 --> 01:34:59.039 but I'm not a genius. And I don't think that 1585 01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:04.840 any of this stuff is beyond most people. Yeah, it's 1586 01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:07.000 the resilience. I mean, I've I've got some of these 1587 01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:10.079 books where I looked at an equation and I was like, man, 1588 01:35:10.399 --> 01:35:13.600 And I've had college calculus and I'm like, man, I 1589 01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:17.680 don't understand this. And it's taken me days of thinking 1590 01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:20.680 about it and working working through a problem a bunch 1591 01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:24.720 of times, and then just having that tenacity really and 1592 01:35:25.039 --> 01:35:27.319 and I never really had that before. And I think 1593 01:35:27.359 --> 01:35:28.279 that probably came. 1594 01:35:28.119 --> 01:35:29.840 From from s F you know. 1595 01:35:30.159 --> 01:35:35.840 Yeah, but that's anybody could do this now. Not everybody 1596 01:35:35.920 --> 01:35:41.079 could could do a carbon fiber spitfire and put that 1597 01:35:41.239 --> 01:35:45.920 into production because of the just the cost, you know. 1598 01:35:46.039 --> 01:35:49.520 But every anybody could design a small aircraft if that's 1599 01:35:49.560 --> 01:35:52.439 what they wanted to do, you know. And and that's 1600 01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:55.840 this is what I see as my as my life's 1601 01:35:56.159 --> 01:36:00.520 passion and mission at this point. So it's like Victor 1602 01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:05.600 Frankel said, you know, uh, whoever has the the uh 1603 01:36:06.399 --> 01:36:08.920 the why I can endure anyhow? And I just push 1604 01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:12.760 your dad, I know. But uh, you know, you guys, 1605 01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:15.439 everyone knows Victor Frankel whatever, or they look it up. 1606 01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:21.560 But essentially, if you have a purpose, you can overcome 1607 01:36:21.640 --> 01:36:28.159 mountainous obstacles to achieve your end goal. So anybody could 1608 01:36:28.159 --> 01:36:30.199 do it if they want. And so I want that. 1609 01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:33.119 I want people to think about that. And like, you know, 1610 01:36:33.680 --> 01:36:37.439 I'm just this. You know, I came from a poor family. 1611 01:36:37.560 --> 01:36:41.239 No one had had any education. Uh you know, my 1612 01:36:41.439 --> 01:36:48.560 parents were teenagers essentially when I was born, Uh, you know, 1613 01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:54.640 pretty humble beginnings. And and I don't have any special gifts, 1614 01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:58.800 you know, I don't have anything like uh Russell Crowe 1615 01:36:58.840 --> 01:37:03.159 and that when movie beautiful mind you know, it's just 1616 01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:06.840 a little bit of smarts and and the desire and 1617 01:37:07.159 --> 01:37:11.319 and just that willingness to be uncomfortable and feel like 1618 01:37:11.399 --> 01:37:13.720 you're an idiot. Kind of like, I don't get this, 1619 01:37:14.479 --> 01:37:16.880 but I got to push through it. And that kind 1620 01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:19.600 of leads me to to one thing that I that 1621 01:37:19.720 --> 01:37:23.279 I I want to want to convey to people is that, 1622 01:37:23.479 --> 01:37:26.199 like a lot of people now talk about how the 1623 01:37:26.279 --> 01:37:29.840 American dream is dead, this and that and the other thing. 1624 01:37:29.920 --> 01:37:33.640 You hear that, and it's what they what they're trying 1625 01:37:33.680 --> 01:37:37.199 to say is that you know, oh, this new generation 1626 01:37:37.319 --> 01:37:39.359 is never going to own a house and have two kids, 1627 01:37:39.439 --> 01:37:41.720 and you know, that's what the American dream is. Whatever, 1628 01:37:42.199 --> 01:37:46.199 that's not the American dream. I'm I'm living the American dream. 1629 01:37:46.239 --> 01:37:48.159 And you know, you look at me. I'm not that 1630 01:37:48.319 --> 01:37:53.039 remarkable of a guy. You know, nothing's really standing out 1631 01:37:53.039 --> 01:37:57.359 about me as you look at me. But yet I've 1632 01:37:57.399 --> 01:38:00.359 been able to shape my life in the in the 1633 01:38:00.439 --> 01:38:04.640 way and to the potential that I feel like I'm capable. 1634 01:38:04.720 --> 01:38:07.760 And that's what the American dream is. It's to shape 1635 01:38:07.840 --> 01:38:12.399 your life, uh, to the direction and to the extent 1636 01:38:12.600 --> 01:38:17.359 that you want to and that to reach your fullest potential. 1637 01:38:17.560 --> 01:38:20.359 It's the pursuit of happiness. Right, You're you're really living that? 1638 01:38:22.079 --> 01:38:27.560 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the dream is that part of 1639 01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:30.199 the dream is that in America. You can do that 1640 01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:32.760 because you don't have like a caste system holding you 1641 01:38:32.960 --> 01:38:36.600 down where you know where I could never be an 1642 01:38:36.640 --> 01:38:40.840 aircraft designer because you know, my parents weren't royalty or 1643 01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:43.600 you know, it didn't weren't landowners or stuff stuff like that. 1644 01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:44.000 You know. 1645 01:38:44.920 --> 01:38:47.359 So, so the American dream is really it never was 1646 01:38:47.399 --> 01:38:54.079 about uh being wealthy. It wasn't about having a Bugatti 1647 01:38:54.239 --> 01:38:57.399 or Lambeaus. And you know, it wasn't none of that 1648 01:38:57.520 --> 01:38:59.159 kind of stuff. It wasn't about having kids, It wasn't 1649 01:38:59.199 --> 01:39:03.000 about how It was just about sort of this freedom 1650 01:39:03.079 --> 01:39:05.239 and and uh, you know, sort of sort of this 1651 01:39:05.399 --> 01:39:10.680 base level equality of opportunity and and as you said, 1652 01:39:11.119 --> 01:39:15.840 this freedom for people to pursue pursue happiness. That's a 1653 01:39:15.880 --> 01:39:21.319 bit of a misnomer. Happiness ensues from living living the 1654 01:39:21.439 --> 01:39:24.800 right way, is how I view it. It's not something 1655 01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:29.239 that you chase after the happiness, Ah, having that happiness 1656 01:39:29.319 --> 01:39:35.039 is like uh money or wealth. Happiness ensues from doing 1657 01:39:35.079 --> 01:39:37.039 the right things in life as a as a living 1658 01:39:37.319 --> 01:39:40.159 living a good person, living in a good life, and 1659 01:39:40.319 --> 01:39:44.000 wealth ensues from doing the right things in relation to 1660 01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:49.439 the market right, which which is finance. People refer to 1661 01:39:49.520 --> 01:39:53.479 as the market. The market is everything from the from 1662 01:39:53.520 --> 01:39:57.359 the butcher shop to to to you know, the sock exchange. 1663 01:39:57.760 --> 01:39:59.800 The market is all the stuff that the money is 1664 01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:03.199 sort of involved in. But you do the right things 1665 01:40:03.239 --> 01:40:07.239 in either of those arenas and you're going to the 1666 01:40:07.279 --> 01:40:09.600 happiness is going to ensue and the wealth is going 1667 01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:10.199 to ensue. 1668 01:40:12.279 --> 01:40:15.239 Justin, I was going to ask you, because you know 1669 01:40:15.359 --> 01:40:19.800 you say like you, I love how you casually tossed 1670 01:40:19.840 --> 01:40:24.199 off Victor Frankel like everybody knows it, But unfortunately I 1671 01:40:24.239 --> 01:40:26.960 don't think everybody does. And if you haven't read his book, 1672 01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:29.439 Man Search for Meeting, it's it's a short book. It's 1673 01:40:29.479 --> 01:40:31.920 an easy read and everybody everybody should read it. 1674 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:33.239 What are some other. 1675 01:40:34.840 --> 01:40:37.840 Authors or some other people with these ideas that have 1676 01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:40.279 inspired you or guided you along this way? 1677 01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:46.239 Oh boy, that's a good question. Victor Frankel is definitely 1678 01:40:46.479 --> 01:40:50.279 very influential. A guy named me Hi Chicks and me 1679 01:40:50.399 --> 01:40:54.399 Hi who wrote a book called Flow. I essentially just 1680 01:40:54.479 --> 01:40:59.159 I'm constantly rereading and re listening to it. I have 1681 01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:04.039 an on book audiobook to him. Those are two big ones. 1682 01:41:04.079 --> 01:41:12.239 But then also so shifting back a bit, you know, 1683 01:41:12.319 --> 01:41:16.560 I mentioned we're poor my family's ideas of success, from 1684 01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:19.840 my dad's idea of success was having ferraris and that 1685 01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:23.359 kind of thing, having money to be able to, you know, 1686 01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:25.119 do what you want, but also to kind of have 1687 01:41:25.279 --> 01:41:29.640 the fun stuff in life. Right. But so I never 1688 01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:33.760 I never learned it. I never learned about money because 1689 01:41:35.159 --> 01:41:38.520 it was always a there was always an attempt to 1690 01:41:38.640 --> 01:41:43.439 reach those things without being able to afford them. It's 1691 01:41:43.520 --> 01:41:48.359 basically poor people behavior continues that continues to this day. 1692 01:41:48.439 --> 01:41:54.119 Rights by buying toys on credit essentially. So when I 1693 01:41:54.279 --> 01:41:57.000 was in the Q course, there was a guy who 1694 01:41:58.039 --> 01:42:01.239 one day came in and said, hey, I just made 1695 01:42:01.479 --> 01:42:03.920 four thousand dollars in the stock market, and he had 1696 01:42:03.960 --> 01:42:06.800 been an investor, he had learned about investing and all 1697 01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:10.960 this kind of stuff. And I thought, oh my gosh, And. 1698 01:42:11.600 --> 01:42:12.119 Here I was. 1699 01:42:12.520 --> 01:42:16.159 I had two cars, a sports car and I had 1700 01:42:16.199 --> 01:42:18.800 a four wheel drive van, and you know, I had 1701 01:42:18.880 --> 01:42:21.119 debt on maybe both of them, I can't remember. And 1702 01:42:21.199 --> 01:42:22.960 I had a dirt bike and all these toys, right, 1703 01:42:23.960 --> 01:42:28.399 and zero money to my name. And so that was 1704 01:42:28.479 --> 01:42:30.560 one of the things I'd maybe been thinking about a 1705 01:42:30.600 --> 01:42:32.880 little bit before. But I was like, man, I made 1706 01:42:32.880 --> 01:42:35.079 all this money and have nothing to show for it, 1707 01:42:35.079 --> 01:42:38.199 and I'm in debt and this guy just made four 1708 01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:42.199 thousand dollars something like that in the market. And so 1709 01:42:42.560 --> 01:42:45.279 that kind of kicked me into geared learning about money, 1710 01:42:45.359 --> 01:42:48.840 and I think everybody should learn about money and circling 1711 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:52.960 back now, one of the books that was very influential 1712 01:42:53.039 --> 01:42:57.079 for me was actually Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and the 1713 01:42:57.159 --> 01:42:59.000 dude's kind of gone off the rails. It seems like 1714 01:42:59.119 --> 01:43:02.399 maybe now I don't really following too much, but uh, 1715 01:43:03.079 --> 01:43:07.079 Robert Kiyosaki, that book. I wouldn't push anybody to get 1716 01:43:07.119 --> 01:43:11.640 any other ones, but that book, it's it's served to 1717 01:43:11.840 --> 01:43:16.319 frame my mindset about how money works and how you 1718 01:43:16.359 --> 01:43:19.640 build wealth. So you got Victor Frankel, and then and 1719 01:43:19.760 --> 01:43:23.199 then Chicks and Me high on sort of this personal 1720 01:43:23.279 --> 01:43:28.880 development side, and then and then you have uh, Rich Dad, 1721 01:43:28.920 --> 01:43:30.960 Poor Dad, and and a host of others. I mean, 1722 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:33.399 I've read so many books about money, but uh, those 1723 01:43:33.439 --> 01:43:38.279 are those are some very influential ones as far as that, 1724 01:43:38.399 --> 01:43:42.199 because like it or not, finances are a big part 1725 01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:44.159 of life, and it's a big part of having a 1726 01:43:44.199 --> 01:43:50.199 happy life is having your finances in order. Yeah, so 1727 01:43:50.359 --> 01:43:53.439 I hope those are some good, some good recommendations for people. 1728 01:43:54.520 --> 01:43:57.600 Another one on the finance side is, uh, it's called 1729 01:43:57.600 --> 01:44:01.520 The Richest Man in Babylon. And you know, that's an 1730 01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:05.279 old book. It's a it's a yeah, it's a it's 1731 01:44:05.279 --> 01:44:08.560 a fictional you know, tail, but it's it's the lessons 1732 01:44:08.600 --> 01:44:14.239 are invaluable and essentially it's even on this list of topics, 1733 01:44:14.279 --> 01:44:21.800 i'd come up all right, had I wrote down to mention. Really, 1734 01:44:21.880 --> 01:44:25.680 what what he wants people to do is invest ten 1735 01:44:25.760 --> 01:44:30.720 percent of their income right off the top. Invest it, 1736 01:44:31.399 --> 01:44:33.680 you know, put that money away and make that and 1737 01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:35.319 don't put it in the safe, don't put it in 1738 01:44:35.359 --> 01:44:37.840 its savings account, don't put it in a bank. Invest 1739 01:44:37.920 --> 01:44:40.279 it so that it makes money for you. You know. 1740 01:44:40.439 --> 01:44:43.680 Compounding is is the what they call it, the eighth 1741 01:44:43.760 --> 01:44:46.680 wonder of the world or whatever the other next wonder is. 1742 01:44:49.239 --> 01:44:54.560 Compounding interest is even Einstein said that compounding is such 1743 01:44:54.600 --> 01:44:58.399 a powerful force, uh, that you need to get it started. 1744 01:44:58.560 --> 01:45:01.840 And and saving money is just not enough to try 1745 01:45:01.880 --> 01:45:05.479 to build wealth. So you know, I would ask that 1746 01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:11.079 anybody listening to this take ten percent and before you 1747 01:45:11.159 --> 01:45:15.680 do anything else, Even if you're twenty five and you 1748 01:45:15.760 --> 01:45:18.840 think that you got lots of time. You don't really 1749 01:45:19.000 --> 01:45:21.520 you know, take ten percent and put it, put it 1750 01:45:21.600 --> 01:45:23.920 in an index fund. That's what I do. I'm not 1751 01:45:24.039 --> 01:45:26.359 giving investing advice. What I do is I put it 1752 01:45:26.399 --> 01:45:29.520 in an index fund. You don't, I don't buy a bitcoin, 1753 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:32.880 don't do silly shit like that or speculative type stuff. 1754 01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:35.520 You know, don't try to get rich quick. Take your 1755 01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:37.600 ten percent and put it in. Put it in an 1756 01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:40.239 index fund, a low cost index fund. I use Vanguard. 1757 01:45:41.039 --> 01:45:44.479 I put it into vooh, which is Vanguard's S and 1758 01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:48.720 P five hundred index fund. And and let that stuff compound. 1759 01:45:49.199 --> 01:45:53.760 But that book is is very influential. That's that's the 1760 01:45:53.880 --> 01:45:56.399 richest man in babylone. 1761 01:45:57.279 --> 01:45:57.479 Justin. 1762 01:45:57.520 --> 01:45:59.960 I really appreciate this interview, man, and you're sharing your 1763 01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:02.880 story and all of your insights, and I think it 1764 01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:06.680 has been a unique perspective, not just on the military, 1765 01:46:06.720 --> 01:46:10.239 but on life too. Before we let you go tonight, 1766 01:46:10.279 --> 01:46:12.680 I mean, are there any final things you would you'd 1767 01:46:12.800 --> 01:46:15.159 kind of and I really like the way you interwove 1768 01:46:15.239 --> 01:46:17.720 some of these lessons learned into your story. Are there 1769 01:46:17.760 --> 01:46:19.880 any we failed to hit during this interview that you'd 1770 01:46:19.880 --> 01:46:21.000 really like to tease out there? 1771 01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:26.319 I think about the only I mean, I have a 1772 01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:28.680 bunch of stuff. I mean, I can, I could go 1773 01:46:28.840 --> 01:46:32.319 on and on. But you know, I've I'm forty six now, 1774 01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:35.600 and I've I've failed a lot, and I've learned a 1775 01:46:35.640 --> 01:46:37.960 lot of lessons. So I feel like I have a 1776 01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:39.359 lot of things to share. I have a lot of 1777 01:46:39.399 --> 01:46:41.199 things I want to convey to people. I have a 1778 01:46:41.239 --> 01:46:44.279 whole article I wrote, not an article, but I started 1779 01:46:44.359 --> 01:46:48.039 laying out sort of these principles of wealth, and not 1780 01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:51.239 that I'm a super wealthy guy, but just from stuff 1781 01:46:51.239 --> 01:46:53.920 I've learned from from actual, you know, life experience. But 1782 01:46:54.640 --> 01:46:57.640 one thing that that I would like to for for 1783 01:46:57.720 --> 01:47:00.560 sure add in to people, add into this interview is 1784 01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:05.760 that I think, I think that as a society, we 1785 01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:11.960 have a lack of, uh of an appreciation for the 1786 01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:17.439 importance of exercise. And and that's in all ages, but 1787 01:47:18.239 --> 01:47:21.680 especially as you know you're past you get past twenty 1788 01:47:21.760 --> 01:47:27.239 five or whatever. I look at it as exercise is 1789 01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:32.800 to to the adult mind and body, what reading is 1790 01:47:33.039 --> 01:47:36.359 to like a child's mind, right, It's reading does something 1791 01:47:36.399 --> 01:47:38.239 to your mind when you're a kid. It isn't just 1792 01:47:38.680 --> 01:47:41.920 the pleasure of reading and learning facts. It's the actual 1793 01:47:44.359 --> 01:47:48.079 deciphering the symbols on the paper, and you know, maintaining 1794 01:47:48.119 --> 01:47:50.760 the information you're taking in the whole process. It's it's 1795 01:47:50.920 --> 01:47:54.560 very important. I think I see as as developing the 1796 01:47:54.640 --> 01:47:58.920 young mind, and and exercise is sort of that for 1797 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:01.399 your body and your mind as an as an adult. 1798 01:48:01.520 --> 01:48:05.760 And and if you can, you know, anybody's listening to this, 1799 01:48:07.359 --> 01:48:09.720 you know, get a little strength training and and some 1800 01:48:10.800 --> 01:48:14.920 some cardio work in and try them once a week. Ah, 1801 01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:19.039 run or whatever, walk up in a steep hill with 1802 01:48:19.159 --> 01:48:22.640 weight to the point where you are breathing very hard, 1803 01:48:22.680 --> 01:48:24.199 where you're out of breath, you feel like you're out 1804 01:48:24.199 --> 01:48:27.840 of breath, and just get that exercise. It's done. I 1805 01:48:27.920 --> 01:48:33.760 feel like it's done. Essentially a miracle for me because 1806 01:48:35.279 --> 01:48:37.239 you know, when I got out of the army, I 1807 01:48:37.439 --> 01:48:44.279 was I had a difficult transition to civilian life. You know, 1808 01:48:48.439 --> 01:48:55.279 what's that here? Nice to have this, you know, I 1809 01:48:55.399 --> 01:48:58.479 lost a lot of bodies, a lot of guys from 1810 01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:16.279 group in the warm mhm when uh m hmm, when 1811 01:49:16.319 --> 01:49:21.600 I got out, I was pretty I guess you'd say 1812 01:49:21.680 --> 01:49:38.279 resentful of of civilians and h m m hm, m h. 1813 01:49:46.359 --> 01:49:48.000 It's hard to explain, so forgive me. 1814 01:49:49.840 --> 01:49:53.279 It's it's it's uh. I think even in like the 1815 01:49:53.359 --> 01:49:57.359 Hakka Guri, the the samurai writes about this about you know, 1816 01:49:57.439 --> 01:50:01.000 the samurai coming back and like resenting this civilians around them, 1817 01:50:01.039 --> 01:50:03.960 like these people are fat, they're lazy, what's wrong with them? 1818 01:50:05.439 --> 01:50:08.439 They don't have real problems. They don't understand what's going on, right, 1819 01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:10.920 you know, they bitch about nothing? 1820 01:50:11.359 --> 01:50:16.600 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then also that coupled with they 1821 01:50:16.640 --> 01:50:22.880 don't know you know, the kind of sacrifice is going. 1822 01:50:23.279 --> 01:50:26.560 Right, Yeah, they had there's a lot of judgment with 1823 01:50:26.840 --> 01:50:27.760 very little information. 1824 01:50:31.079 --> 01:50:34.720 Yeah, and uh, not that they could know, you know, 1825 01:50:34.960 --> 01:50:39.520 necessarily because there isn't. I mean, you can make shows about, 1826 01:50:40.760 --> 01:50:43.560 you know, what's going on, like Ristrepo for example, was 1827 01:50:43.840 --> 01:50:47.560 a very good one, but there's still you know, it's 1828 01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:51.479 not I don't know, it's it's just a terrible situation basically. 1829 01:50:52.119 --> 01:50:56.600 But so I was pretty resentful for you know a 1830 01:50:56.680 --> 01:50:58.880 lot of that stuff that all the stuff we're talking 1831 01:50:58.920 --> 01:51:02.920 about right here, and so I was pretty you know, 1832 01:51:03.119 --> 01:51:12.119 kind of angry, and I've I've had a I've had 1833 01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:18.119 a like a condition which is perfectionism, since I was 1834 01:51:18.319 --> 01:51:22.720 pretty young, which it sounds like something you put on 1835 01:51:22.800 --> 01:51:23.840 your resume to strength. 1836 01:51:24.199 --> 01:51:26.159 If I'm ever in one of your aircraft, I'm going 1837 01:51:26.239 --> 01:51:27.039 to be happy about that. 1838 01:51:27.159 --> 01:51:33.159 Though. Yeah, yeah, it can go too far sometimes, right, 1839 01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:39.600 And that's you know, that kind of it's people think 1840 01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:41.680 it's kind of a good thing to be a perfectionist, 1841 01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:44.880 but it gets to the point where it basically starts 1842 01:51:44.880 --> 01:51:50.279 destroying your life, and so it just takes away any 1843 01:51:50.399 --> 01:51:55.079 possibility of being happy because it's you're you know, you're 1844 01:51:55.119 --> 01:51:59.920 constantly undermining yourself aspiration possible. 1845 01:52:00.720 --> 01:52:03.680 I'm I'm very curious though, because you know, you. 1846 01:52:05.279 --> 01:52:11.680 Have a successful firearms company and you were also doing 1847 01:52:12.359 --> 01:52:15.520 you know, this other company with aircraft. And one of 1848 01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:18.960 the problems, or one of the challenges with perfectionism is 1849 01:52:19.119 --> 01:52:22.800 this whole paralysis by analysis, and people never even get 1850 01:52:22.920 --> 01:52:26.119 started on projects because they never feel like they know 1851 01:52:26.359 --> 01:52:30.520 enough or the situation isn't perfect. How did you manage 1852 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:31.359 to overcome that? 1853 01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:37.880 You know, honestly, I don't sometimes I don't know. Part 1854 01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:41.079 of it was BA on the aircraft side. I had 1855 01:52:41.119 --> 01:52:43.399 to go through all every single one of the books 1856 01:52:44.399 --> 01:52:48.560 to basically have that satisfaction in my head that I 1857 01:52:48.680 --> 01:52:52.079 got to that point of knowledge, and then on top 1858 01:52:52.119 --> 01:52:54.720 of that is I brought in other engineers to go 1859 01:52:54.880 --> 01:52:59.680 throughout my work and so to, you know, to make 1860 01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:03.159 sure that that I know what I'm doing. And you know, 1861 01:53:03.600 --> 01:53:06.119 they were they I don't know everything, so they're helping 1862 01:53:06.159 --> 01:53:09.479 out too. They're doing stuff on their own. But I honestly, 1863 01:53:09.520 --> 01:53:12.520 I don't know. I think I think I think it's 1864 01:53:12.520 --> 01:53:15.279 again as the SF stuff, it's just you just push forver. 1865 01:53:16.119 --> 01:53:18.680 You know, you just have to do it. You have 1866 01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:19.600 to make mission. 1867 01:53:20.159 --> 01:53:20.359 Yeah. 1868 01:53:21.960 --> 01:53:23.760 And on the carre g side, it's the same way. 1869 01:53:24.239 --> 01:53:30.159 I've designed some rifles and some stocks that are you know, 1870 01:53:31.760 --> 01:53:34.279 incredible and as far as their function and design, and 1871 01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:37.239 I mean that sounds like I'm bragging, but I mean 1872 01:53:37.399 --> 01:53:39.960 just the just the amount of thought and detail is 1873 01:53:40.039 --> 01:53:41.720 what I mean that's went into them, and the function 1874 01:53:41.880 --> 01:53:44.560 is is beyond what's available out there and stuff like that. 1875 01:53:44.800 --> 01:53:47.279 And I had a rifle I designed. It was planned 1876 01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:51.039 to sort of be the equivalent of like a fine 1877 01:53:51.079 --> 01:53:53.039 English shotgun. I mean, you guys have heard of like 1878 01:53:53.159 --> 01:53:56.439 party shotguns probably and stuff like that, two hundred thousand 1879 01:53:56.439 --> 01:53:59.399 dollars shotguns. Well, you know, I've worked on stuff that's 1880 01:53:59.560 --> 01:54:03.760 been to was intended to be to that level, and 1881 01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:06.680 that hasn't seen the light of day, partially because it's 1882 01:54:06.720 --> 01:54:12.279 not that's not a good business decision. But yeah, some 1883 01:54:13.199 --> 01:54:15.840 it has handicapped me in some ways for sure. But 1884 01:54:16.439 --> 01:54:21.960 but I think again the military stuff, the s F 1885 01:54:22.079 --> 01:54:24.840 side says, hey, this has to be done, you know, 1886 01:54:25.159 --> 01:54:28.680 you just do it. And and also I can kind 1887 01:54:28.720 --> 01:54:31.199 of rest assured that I I feel like I pretty 1888 01:54:31.239 --> 01:54:33.000 much outwork anybody in the industry. 1889 01:54:33.359 --> 01:54:40.239 So so yeah, not to delve back into a sensitive subject, 1890 01:54:40.319 --> 01:54:43.359 but you had mentioned it when you got out, you 1891 01:54:43.560 --> 01:54:45.199 had that resentment for civilians. 1892 01:54:45.920 --> 01:54:47.760 How how did you overcome that? 1893 01:54:48.000 --> 01:54:49.239 Like what what? 1894 01:54:50.359 --> 01:54:51.960 How did you get past that or did you. 1895 01:54:55.119 --> 01:55:00.159 I would say, I would say, still haven't entirely. Uh Uh. 1896 01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:04.159 I'm not a I never was a people person. I 1897 01:55:04.279 --> 01:55:05.960 was never a leader. I was never interested in being 1898 01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:06.319 a leader. 1899 01:55:07.880 --> 01:55:08.039 You know. 1900 01:55:08.159 --> 01:55:10.079 I used to I used to be one of those 1901 01:55:10.119 --> 01:55:13.159 people who would say, I fucking hate people. You know, 1902 01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:16.880 that's that's the truth. You know, it's a harsh thing 1903 01:55:16.920 --> 01:55:23.399 to say, but uh, part of its time, you know. 1904 01:55:24.520 --> 01:55:27.840 I think I think I ended up with uh. And 1905 01:55:27.960 --> 01:55:29.840 I don't know how this ever affected me, but I 1906 01:55:30.239 --> 01:55:32.079 think I ended up with some probably a little bit 1907 01:55:32.119 --> 01:55:35.319 of tv I stuff, because we used to blow doors 1908 01:55:36.039 --> 01:55:40.720 from literally the other side of the door jam, I 1909 01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:45.520 mean six inches you know, is Ha's how we would 1910 01:55:45.520 --> 01:55:48.319 blow doors. It was no stand back that kind of stuff. 1911 01:55:48.399 --> 01:55:51.439 It was I would have a uniform covered in parts 1912 01:55:51.520 --> 01:55:55.880 of duct tape, the little adhesive of duct tape, you know, 1913 01:55:56.079 --> 01:55:58.399 to be all over me. That that kind of thing. 1914 01:55:58.520 --> 01:56:00.479 And and we didn't know back then, and that that 1915 01:56:00.640 --> 01:56:04.760 was a dumb idea, you know. And and so I 1916 01:56:04.840 --> 01:56:06.319 think there might have been some of that because we 1917 01:56:06.399 --> 01:56:09.560 blew a lot of a lot of doors, blowing walls, 1918 01:56:09.680 --> 01:56:13.000 blowing you know, everything, a lot of a lot of demo. 1919 01:56:14.079 --> 01:56:16.159 Uh So I think that that kind of factored in, 1920 01:56:16.239 --> 01:56:18.039 and then that kind of sealed over time. I think 1921 01:56:18.119 --> 01:56:21.000 as part of it, part of it was, you know, 1922 01:56:21.159 --> 01:56:24.960 meeting my uh, you know, my my current uh she's 1923 01:56:25.039 --> 01:56:27.760 my fiance car my wife. But meeting her and and 1924 01:56:28.399 --> 01:56:34.399 having this amazing relationship has as that's really helped too. 1925 01:56:34.840 --> 01:56:37.760 You know, It's just just I don't know, I don't know, 1926 01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:41.800 I can't say exactly what the mechanism is, but that's 1927 01:56:41.840 --> 01:56:42.600 been a big help. 1928 01:56:43.479 --> 01:56:43.600 Uh. 1929 01:56:44.079 --> 01:56:47.199 I feel like, you know, my life took a big turn, 1930 01:56:47.439 --> 01:56:49.720 and she's been such a positive influence. She's a very 1931 01:56:49.760 --> 01:56:52.239 positive person. So she's been such a positive influence in 1932 01:56:52.279 --> 01:56:56.159 my life. Uh And and you know, I want to 1933 01:56:56.199 --> 01:56:58.479 tie in something here that I want to I wanted 1934 01:56:58.520 --> 01:57:02.199 to mention to people too, is is, you know, for 1935 01:57:02.560 --> 01:57:05.000 people out there who maybe haven't found their partner yet, 1936 01:57:05.600 --> 01:57:10.079 or or who are looking to looking for a better partner, 1937 01:57:10.199 --> 01:57:13.840 or they feel like during a bad relationship, is you know, 1938 01:57:14.479 --> 01:57:18.159 take a look in the mirror and realize that you 1939 01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:20.800 only deserve the kind of partner that you are to 1940 01:57:20.960 --> 01:57:25.399 the other person. And I don't that took me a 1941 01:57:25.479 --> 01:57:30.359 long time to come to that realization, I would say. 1942 01:57:30.520 --> 01:57:35.720 And you know, people have a tendency to think, ah, 1943 01:57:35.840 --> 01:57:38.079 this person is not good enough for me without thinking, 1944 01:57:38.479 --> 01:57:41.640 hey are you? Are you even that you know, pleasant 1945 01:57:41.720 --> 01:57:44.800 to be around? And for a lot of you know, 1946 01:57:44.960 --> 01:57:47.119 my life, I don't think I always have pleasant to 1947 01:57:47.199 --> 01:57:50.479 be around. So yeah, you know, I didn't meet my 1948 01:57:50.920 --> 01:57:54.880 you know, my spouse until I was like thirty seven 1949 01:57:55.359 --> 01:57:59.520 ish something like that. And I if we'd have met 1950 01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:01.359 before that actually would have been able to stand and 1951 01:58:01.439 --> 01:58:04.600 be around me. So I want people to, you know, 1952 01:58:04.800 --> 01:58:06.600 just kind of think about that is like turn that 1953 01:58:06.960 --> 01:58:11.439 turn that magnifying glass back on yourself and say, hey, 1954 01:58:11.520 --> 01:58:14.800 what what kind of person am I to be around? 1955 01:58:14.840 --> 01:58:16.720 What kind of you know, what kind of love do 1956 01:58:16.840 --> 01:58:19.359 I put out there? What kind of affection do I 1957 01:58:19.479 --> 01:58:23.439 put out there into the world? And you know, give 1958 01:58:23.560 --> 01:58:25.600 what you want to receive essentially. 1959 01:58:27.399 --> 01:58:32.479 Justin where can people find you with KRG with j 1960 01:58:32.680 --> 01:58:33.600 gult Aircraft? 1961 01:58:33.960 --> 01:58:34.079 Uh? 1962 01:58:34.520 --> 01:58:36.199 Where can people go and check this stuff out? 1963 01:58:37.800 --> 01:58:40.239 Well, for the for the firearm side, you know, we 1964 01:58:40.359 --> 01:58:42.880 make the long range chassis and stuff. That's our long 1965 01:58:43.000 --> 01:58:47.079 range precision is our bread and butter. That's our focus 1966 01:58:47.880 --> 01:58:50.680 basically on the firearm side. And and the companies are 1967 01:58:50.680 --> 01:58:56.840 companies called Kinetic Research Group and new websites Kinetic Research 1968 01:58:56.880 --> 01:58:59.840 Group dot com or you can just search for carre 1969 01:59:00.039 --> 01:59:02.279 G carre G Chassis. 1970 01:59:04.119 --> 01:59:04.560 The Uh. 1971 01:59:05.439 --> 01:59:08.000 I'm not super involved in day to day things, so 1972 01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:10.199 on that side, I'm not really the person to get 1973 01:59:10.199 --> 01:59:16.520 a hold of excuse me. Uh. On the aircraft side, 1974 01:59:17.000 --> 01:59:19.520 where we have a little YouTube channel that we started 1975 01:59:19.560 --> 01:59:21.800 that has like one video that I put up a 1976 01:59:21.880 --> 01:59:26.760 year ago that's jag Old Aircraft on YouTube. And and 1977 01:59:27.479 --> 01:59:32.279 we really haven't been talking about things because we don't 1978 01:59:32.279 --> 01:59:34.600 want to have a lot of hype and then not deliver. 1979 01:59:34.840 --> 01:59:37.079 So we're waiting till we get the aircraft in the 1980 01:59:37.119 --> 01:59:41.199 air before we're really uh cool, start pushing things because 1981 01:59:41.359 --> 01:59:43.520 we're trying to sell these things, you know. But we 1982 01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:48.960 also aircraft industries had a long history of people promising 1983 01:59:49.199 --> 01:59:50.079 taking deposits. 1984 01:59:50.840 --> 01:59:56.239 And then you know, I think the most important I 1985 01:59:56.359 --> 01:59:58.640 was just gonna say, I think I think the most 1986 01:59:58.640 --> 02:00:01.399 important question is when can can I come shoot some 1987 02:00:01.520 --> 02:00:03.199 of your some of your systems. 1988 02:00:05.319 --> 02:00:08.199 We'd love to have you guys down definitely. We could 1989 02:00:08.359 --> 02:00:11.159 we go do some flying, do some shooting. We got 1990 02:00:11.239 --> 02:00:13.479 some good ranges here, so I'm in. I'm in boys 1991 02:00:13.479 --> 02:00:16.680 the area. Yeah, we'd love to have you guys. So 1992 02:00:16.720 --> 02:00:18.800 anytime you if you make it out west. I know 1993 02:00:18.880 --> 02:00:22.439 you guys are pretty far east there, but uh, anytime 1994 02:00:22.479 --> 02:00:24.840 you guys are are coming out this way, we'd we'd 1995 02:00:24.880 --> 02:00:27.520 love to have you. John and I are in in 1996 02:00:27.600 --> 02:00:29.560 the Bois area. The rest of the companies up north 1997 02:00:29.600 --> 02:00:32.520 outside of Corterley, northern Idaho. Dang, you're up to Canada. 1998 02:00:33.880 --> 02:00:36.560 But but we're here and we got lots of toys, 1999 02:00:37.520 --> 02:00:40.159 our stuff, we got other stuff, you know, and like 2000 02:00:40.239 --> 02:00:42.319 I said all kinds of we can have all kinds 2001 02:00:42.319 --> 02:00:42.640 of fun. 2002 02:00:42.840 --> 02:00:45.039 Definitely, we'll hit you up when it gets warm. 2003 02:00:47.880 --> 02:00:51.720 Yeah, well it just turned we it was, it's been 2004 02:00:51.800 --> 02:00:54.640 really nice and and then it's it's turning now. So 2005 02:00:54.920 --> 02:00:56.960 but yeah, come in the in the spring or the 2006 02:00:57.239 --> 02:00:59.960 falls here amazing. Summer's brutal. It's like twos on here 2007 02:01:00.079 --> 02:01:03.600 in the summer. But but come down for sure. And 2008 02:01:04.239 --> 02:01:06.880 anybody on who's who's interested on the aircraft side can 2009 02:01:07.760 --> 02:01:10.159 go look at the YouTube or they can email me 2010 02:01:10.319 --> 02:01:12.359 at Justin at Jagault Aircraft. 2011 02:01:12.520 --> 02:01:15.439 We'll put some links down the description for people to 2012 02:01:15.520 --> 02:01:16.039 go check out. 2013 02:01:17.239 --> 02:01:19.720 Yeah, and it's you know, just be patient because I, 2014 02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:22.439 you know, I get a lot of emails and I 2015 02:01:22.600 --> 02:01:25.319 really try to spend my time actually doing work, like 2016 02:01:25.720 --> 02:01:27.960 working on the plane. So yeah, and then you know 2017 02:01:28.039 --> 02:01:30.920 on the care gen design side too, So just be 2018 02:01:31.079 --> 02:01:33.640 patient if I you know, if I'm slow and getting back. 2019 02:01:34.319 --> 02:01:37.680 So and I also have some wares to sell that 2020 02:01:37.800 --> 02:01:40.840 I want to tell people about my book, We Defy 2021 02:01:41.039 --> 02:01:43.920 The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History is coming out 2022 02:01:44.079 --> 02:01:47.279 December ninth. It's up for pre order on Amazon now 2023 02:01:48.079 --> 02:01:51.920 goes through Detachment A. The Undercover guys in Berlin Detachment 2024 02:01:52.000 --> 02:01:55.920 K and Korea blue Light, the first counter terrorism unit 2025 02:01:56.079 --> 02:02:00.439 green Light with a backpack, nuke guys and the commanders 2026 02:02:00.479 --> 02:02:03.600 in extremist forced. So I'm excited about the book. Please 2027 02:02:03.680 --> 02:02:05.680 go check it out if you guys have a moment. 2028 02:02:05.760 --> 02:02:06.039 Thank you. 2029 02:02:06.720 --> 02:02:08.439 We have two viewer questions. I don't know if we 2030 02:02:08.520 --> 02:02:13.079 have anything on Patreon d nothing, All right, First one. 2031 02:02:13.039 --> 02:02:16.720 Thank you Bjorn. This you know you had mentioned you 2032 02:02:16.800 --> 02:02:21.159 had mentioned selection and whatnot. But the question is ever 2033 02:02:21.239 --> 02:02:23.439 work with a one five and how do they compare 2034 02:02:23.560 --> 02:02:24.479 to CAG And I don't know. 2035 02:02:24.439 --> 02:02:26.159 If you have an actual comparison for that. 2036 02:02:28.479 --> 02:02:32.399 I don't John John was with a one five for 2037 02:02:33.000 --> 02:02:35.039 a lot of years. I don't know how many, but 2038 02:02:35.720 --> 02:02:38.880 he was. He was over on the sniper troop there. 2039 02:02:39.600 --> 02:02:41.520 He'd be the one to answer that question. Maybe we 2040 02:02:41.600 --> 02:02:43.800 can get him on with you guys. Yeah, he has 2041 02:02:43.840 --> 02:02:47.279 a lot more time than I do. And you've got 2042 02:02:47.319 --> 02:02:50.319 some cool stories. I don't know if you know he's 2043 02:02:50.399 --> 02:02:53.640 not we're s F guys, right, we're a little shy 2044 02:02:54.479 --> 02:02:57.520 and it's only recently I would even you know, want 2045 02:02:57.560 --> 02:03:00.399 to be out there in public a little bit and whatnot. 2046 02:03:00.520 --> 02:03:04.560 So he might have some more of that stuff. Sorry, 2047 02:03:04.600 --> 02:03:07.680 I don't. I can't really tell how he won five compares. 2048 02:03:08.119 --> 02:03:09.760 We always thought of those guys as a bunch of 2049 02:03:09.840 --> 02:03:12.399 prima donnas, you know when I was on, when I 2050 02:03:12.520 --> 02:03:15.319 was on just a regular team and and we were 2051 02:03:15.359 --> 02:03:17.960 doing direct shack, direct action stuff, and we you know, 2052 02:03:18.079 --> 02:03:20.199 our our team started came from me one five, so 2053 02:03:20.279 --> 02:03:21.920 we felt like we were just as good as them. 2054 02:03:22.880 --> 02:03:26.000 And how they compared to Delta, I have no idea, 2055 02:03:27.039 --> 02:03:29.800 but uh, the stuff I hear about Delta is pretty 2056 02:03:30.159 --> 02:03:31.239 it's pretty next level. 2057 02:03:31.439 --> 02:03:35.319 So yeah, uh and then m Corbyn, thank you very much. 2058 02:03:35.760 --> 02:03:38.439 Why was the vat U F for U course the 2059 02:03:38.439 --> 02:03:39.680 Air the best fighter. 2060 02:03:39.399 --> 02:03:40.119 From World War Two? 2061 02:03:41.880 --> 02:03:42.000 Uh? 2062 02:03:42.520 --> 02:03:47.119 Well, it sounds like a Corsair fan there. That was 2063 02:03:47.159 --> 02:03:49.520 actually my favorite plane for the longest time. It was 2064 02:03:50.000 --> 02:03:52.640 featured in that an old show called Bob Bob Black 2065 02:03:52.680 --> 02:03:53.600 Sheet Happy. 2066 02:03:53.760 --> 02:03:53.880 Uh. 2067 02:03:54.840 --> 02:03:57.600 Pappy Boyington, Yeah, he was a quarter Laine guy, so 2068 02:03:57.720 --> 02:04:00.600 he's a kind of local. Hebro up there. Used to 2069 02:04:00.640 --> 02:04:02.319 love that show. That's probably one of the reasons I 2070 02:04:02.399 --> 02:04:05.239 got so interested in it. And of course the course 2071 02:04:05.239 --> 02:04:10.800 Air was wash an incredibly powerful engine with a with 2072 02:04:10.920 --> 02:04:15.760 an incredibly large efficient propeller and and quite an armament 2073 02:04:16.479 --> 02:04:20.800 and when you really look at what they're doing back then, uh, 2074 02:04:20.960 --> 02:04:25.680 fighter performance is uh, largest most powerful engine you can find, 2075 02:04:26.720 --> 02:04:31.239 the smallest airframe with the lowest drag that that can tolerate, 2076 02:04:31.920 --> 02:04:34.520 you know, the landing conditions and stuff like that, because 2077 02:04:34.560 --> 02:04:36.920 you still need to have some kind of low speed performance, 2078 02:04:36.960 --> 02:04:40.720 especially land on a carrier. And then and then your 2079 02:04:40.840 --> 02:04:44.479 armament and uh. And so the course air was a 2080 02:04:44.720 --> 02:04:46.520 was a hell of a fighter. And then I mean 2081 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:48.319 there's a lot of nuance to it too, the size 2082 02:04:48.319 --> 02:04:53.000 of the Alerons and you know whatnot. But I don't 2083 02:04:53.119 --> 02:04:55.079 I don't know that I would say it's the best fighter. 2084 02:04:56.560 --> 02:04:58.920 If you ask the Brits, the Spitfire is the best fighter, 2085 02:04:59.039 --> 02:05:02.800 and they won't. They will not here I have word. Otherwise, 2086 02:05:03.800 --> 02:05:07.800 you ask an American, it's the Mustang generally speaking, Uh, 2087 02:05:08.279 --> 02:05:10.439 most people say it's a Mustang over the Course Air. 2088 02:05:11.039 --> 02:05:14.000 So I can't. I can't say one is better than 2089 02:05:14.039 --> 02:05:17.800 the other. The course air was was certainly amazing, and 2090 02:05:19.000 --> 02:05:20.880 I'd love to have one. I'd love to fly one, 2091 02:05:20.960 --> 02:05:21.479 that's for sure. 2092 02:05:21.920 --> 02:05:25.239 Yeah, that's it. 2093 02:05:25.840 --> 02:05:29.840 And next Friday we're going to have David McCloskey, the 2094 02:05:29.960 --> 02:05:33.319 author of the new spy novel The Seventh Four. We'll 2095 02:05:33.359 --> 02:05:36.079 have him on the show, So that's coming up next week. 2096 02:05:37.079 --> 02:05:39.119 Justin again, thank you for joining us tonight, spending some 2097 02:05:39.199 --> 02:05:40.880 of your time with us and sharing some of your 2098 02:05:41.039 --> 02:05:42.239 life experiences with us. 2099 02:05:43.399 --> 02:05:46.439 It's been a pleasure, fellows. I really appreciate you, you know, 2100 02:05:46.560 --> 02:05:49.399 inviting me on. Like I said, I listened to a 2101 02:05:49.479 --> 02:05:52.399 lot of your shows, and I hope you guys just 2102 02:05:52.520 --> 02:05:55.199 have enormous success going forward, and if if I can 2103 02:05:55.239 --> 02:05:57.760 do anything to help help that out, I'm happy to 2104 02:05:57.800 --> 02:05:58.840 do it. Yeah. 2105 02:05:58.920 --> 02:06:02.560 Thank you, Justin really appreciate it. Alright, So we'll see 2106 02:06:02.600 --> 02:06:05.159 all of you guys next Friday. Take care out there, 2107 02:06:05.239 --> 02:06:06.039 have a nice weekend.