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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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is heard live every day from noon to three on

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and again, thank you so much for your support. All righty,

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so yesterday I did not get to this yesterday, and

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it's a good thing I did not because there was

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an additional development after I got off air a couple

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hours later, when my colleague, also a host here and

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a reporter at WBT, Brett Jensen, got the North Carolina

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State Auditor, Dave Bollock to join him on his program.

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You can hear Breaking with Brett Jensen every weekday on

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WBT from seven or sorry six until seven p And

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Brett had broken a story yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, let me see, I've got his.

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Speaker 2: I've got his tweet pulled up here December for a

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sorry so about four o'clock on Monday, and Brett, somehow

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I'm not accusing him of stealing anything. No, I'm sure somebody,

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somebody gave him some of the documents that outline another

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payoff to a Charlotte Mecklenburg police chief, although this is

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technically not to the chief, it's to her husband. And

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we covered this a couple of weeks back when they

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made the announcement that Charlotte had arrived at its new

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police chief. They had chosen Estella Patterson, former CMPD employee officer,

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and she then went up to Raleigh. She worked up

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in Raleigh for three years as the chief up there,

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and it just so happened that it coincided with a

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spike in homicides. I'm not saying she is responsible for

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the spike in the homicides. This was also during the

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the COVID era and the fiery but mostly peaceful rioting

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that era that timeframe. So then she came back to

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Charlotte and a lot of the rank and file were

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happy to see her return the Fraternal Order of Police,

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they were pulling for her to be the next chief.

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And then we find we found out that her husband

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had been involved in litigation against the City of Charlotte.

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Her husband, Battalion Chief Lance Patterson, and he had filed

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a lawsuit along with another fire department employee, against the

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city claiming racial bias, and this lawsuit was settled just

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as the police chief was named. Okay, so the chief's

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husband in I think this was like a seven year

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lawsuit against the city. She is going through the hiring

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process while her husband has pending litigation against the city,

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and the city settles it just as they make the

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announcement that they're hiring her. And look, just from an

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optic standpoint, that does not look good, especially after the

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City of Charlotte paid out a three hundred thousand dollars

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settlement to the outgoing Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Chief, Johnny Jennings.

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More than three hundred thousand dollars paid to Jennings, who

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had threatened to sue for defamation, even though the remember

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the the internal complaint that was filed found no justification

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for the for any kind of action to be taken.

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You'll recall Johnny Jennings police chief, he did not want

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to purchase the outer carrier vests for Charlotte Mecklenburg police officers,

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and a city councilman at the time, Tark Bookari, one

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of the only two Republicans on council. Bakari wanted to

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fulfill the requests of a lot of rank and file

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officers that wanted to wear these outer carrier vests, and

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so this created this friction point between the chief and

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the councilman, and there were a bunch of text messages

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exchanged where you know, Bookari is like, I'm going to

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destroy your legacy. These were not public so there was

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no public defamation. It was a political dispute, a policy dispute,

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and eventually, by the way, Bakari raised money from the

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private sector to buy a bunch of the vests and

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then the chief allowed officers if they wanted to wear them,

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then they could. But this so emotionally scarred the police chief.

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I guess that he was going to sue, and he

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threatened to sue the city. And then this created a

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problem where Okay, the city manager had said that they're

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in the city attorney rather had said that there wasn't

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any evidence to support an internal ethics violation against Bakari.

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There was no evidence of defamation or damages and all

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of this, and so it was kind of like, well,

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why are you settling this lawsuit. If you were not

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going to give him the violation, the ethics violation, right,

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if there wasn't enough to get over that low bar,

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why would you settle for three hundred thousand dollars? And

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then of course, you know they wouldn't release it. Charlotte

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City council members, a couple of them, said that they

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were not aware of that previous ethics probe and the

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results of it. It was all just a mess, right,

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And then Jennings announces that he's going to retire, and

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they basically are like, well, this was sort of like

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a severance deal. It wasn't really a settlement. It was

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kind of like a severance retirement package or something. But

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also the city council and the city manager and city

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attorney did not want to release the terms of the settlement.

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They didn't want anybody to know what the numbers were.

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So there was, you know, these rumors about what the

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figure was, what was all included, and everything else. And

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the city maintained this position, which was incorrect, that they

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don't have to divulge the terms of the settlement because

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it would be a quote, personnel matter. But that's not true.

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I was saying it at the time. When you settle

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a lawsuit, you're the city government. You settle lawsuit, you

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have to disclose you know, the case, like who are

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the participants in the case and the amount.

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Speaker 1: That was the way it always was.

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Speaker 2: I was unaware that there was this shift in thinking

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inside the city government during the seven years or eight

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years that I was out of Charlotte and before I

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came back. So the state Auditor, David Bullock comes in

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and he has his people take a look at this,

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and they ask for the settlement. And then after the

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auditor produces his report or right about the same time,

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I would say, probably trying to remember the timeline on that.

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But while he's you know, pressing the city like you

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need to divulge this, this is the law. That's when

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Chief Johnny Jennings waives the non disclosure agreement or whatever

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was preventing him from you from divulging in the City's like, well,

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we'll sign it to in the interest of full transparency.

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Speaker 1: No, you got caught, is what happened.

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Speaker 2: Y'all got caught and you got a state agency now

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with the power to nail you with stuff.

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Speaker 1: So now you're going to divulge it. That was a

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that was a month ago.

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Speaker 2: That was like a month ago where they made the

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announcement that the new chief was being hired. Jennings settlements

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and stuff came about a month prior to that. All

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of this, So this is the swirl going on. And

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as part of the hiring process of the new police chief,

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we have another one of these settlement deals. But again

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this is going to the incoming chief's husband, Battalion Chief

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Lance Patterson. This is from October twenty seventh. A Charlotte,

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North Carolina fire chief says he has reached a settlement

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with the city over his claims of racial bias years

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after he brought or rather he thought the deal was

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done the first time. This is from Law three sixty

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Battalion Chief Lance Patterson of the Charlotte Fire Department, who

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was headed for trial in December. So like right now,

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they were fixing to go to trial after a federal

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court found that the settlement that he tried to have

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enforced from twenty twenty two was actually never fully finalized,

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and so he told the court now that the parties

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have reached another deal. The settlement ends a dispute from

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twenty eighteen in which Patterson and another colleague claimed they

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hit a glass ceiling in the fire department because they

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are black. In November twenty two, they allegedly reached separate

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agreements with the department that included early retirements, but claimed

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that the city was not honoring their deal by deducting

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retirement from funds from their settlement payouts. Okay, so that

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was the nature of the dispute for Battalion Chief Patterson,

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and that's late October, just as they are announcing the

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hiring of his wife. So a settlement would indicate money

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has changed hands, right, how much?

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Speaker 1: Don't know?

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last a lifetime. Okay, so here is from the Charlotte

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Observer story from Jeff Shamer, the reporter. The North Carolina

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State Auditor's Office is looking into the legal settlement paid

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by the City of Charlotte to a former fire battalion chief,

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the husband of cmpd's new police chief. Estella Patterson. State

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Auditor Dave Bollock said on social media site x formerly

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known Twitter, that his office is looking into the settlement

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which was paid to Lance Patterson following a racial discrimination

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lawsuit that the City of Charlotte fought for seven years.

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Bullock said his office would release a report. Okay, so

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this story was broken by wbt's Brett Jensen. This is

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what he posted on to Twitter the other day Monday afternoon.

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He says, I have obtained documents that show the City

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of Charlotte paid out ninety nine thousand, nine hundred ninety

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nine dollars, which is a very specific amount of money,

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ninety nine nine nine nine. This is to settle a

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seven year lawsuit brought forth by Lance Patterson, who is

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the husband of new CMPD chief Estella Patterson. The nine

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nine nine is a significant amount because City Manager Marcus

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Jones does not have to gain city council approval for

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anything less than one hundred thousand dollars. So Jones went

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to the very limit of what he could approve to

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pay without elected officials having to know or vote on

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it or sign off on it. I mean, I don't

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know if they were they ever briefed in a closed

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session about the settlement, or we don't know because the

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City of Charlotte, when they go into their closed sessions,

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they don't ever feel the need to tell anybody about

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what all was discussed, even years later when the case,

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the lawsuit is over.

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Speaker 1: It's it is. It is a level of obfuscation.

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Speaker 2: That when I was a reporter on this beat for

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eight years, I never saw this kind of level of deception.

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Speaker 1: That's what it is.

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Speaker 2: It's deception, Okay, they are attempting to deceive, you know,

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to to omit from the public site lines. These types

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of settlements. Why, I don't know. Like the juice here

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is not worth the squeeze, It really isn't. This is

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the behavior of an apparatus that doesn't believe there's any

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consequence to behaving this way. Like I'm just I'm at

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a loss to understand why they think this is the

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better play. Did you think it wouldn't come out? The

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stories were already published, right, Lance Patterson's lawsuit has been

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going on for seven years. Did you think this wouldn't

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come out? There are federal court papers publicly available. Did

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you think it wouldn't come out? At some point? It

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comes out, and when it comes out, then it looks

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like you've been covering it up, which is exactly what

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it looks like right now because it all came out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you got I mean, think about this. How

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long did you think that.

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Speaker 2: You were to be able to avoid this story from

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getting out? However long you thought you could avoid it.

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I don't think you made it, you know. I suspect

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this got out into the open a lot faster than

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they anticipated. That's just a guess, because otherwise, why would

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you behave like this if you thought that it was

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going to get out much sooner than you would have

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just said, you know what, let's just just put it

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all out there, vote for it, you know, have the

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city council vote for it in open session, or at.

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Speaker 1: Least make them aware about it. Whatever.

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Speaker 2: You would have been fully transparent and disclosed all of

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this right out of the gate if you believed that

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this story was uncontainable, but obviously you didn't think that.

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This speaks to a profound lack of judgment in the

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city manager's office, specifically the city manager Marcus Jones, who

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works at the pleasure of the city council. Okay, if

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I'm on that council. I'm starting to have some serious

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concerns about what else he hasn't disclosed to me. And

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now you know what other kind of poop sandwiches I'm

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going to be forced to eat in the public domain

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because he's not telling me stuff that I should know about.

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It's really unfair to the city council members.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 2: It's unfair to these people who have may have no

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idea what this guy is doing, and now they're going

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to be asked to defend or disavow if they are

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in fact asked to do so. I'm asking you know.

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to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of

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payout according to Brett Jensen from WBT News also breaking

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with Brett Jensen right here weekdays from six till seven.

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He posted on Twitter that of the ninety nine nine

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ninety nine dollars, that's divided into two parts. So Patterson,

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Lance Patterson, who had sued he will get forty thousand dollars.

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His legal team at JMD or James McElroy and Deal,

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the law firm, will get.

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Speaker 3: Nine.

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Speaker 2: So they're getting like sixty thousand. Lance Patterson's getting forty thousand. Okay,

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that's the settlement amount. Let me jump over here and

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let's chat with Pete. Hello, Pete, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 1: How are you.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Pete? Good?

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Speaker 4: To be here.

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Speaker 3: By the way, it's no cash bond, Pete. It took

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not what I was going to talk about, but it

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took Rina's death to get somebody in jail with no

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cash bond. I think it's a start. Anyways, what I

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was gonna mention the city or county budget, whichever is relevant.

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They have a ledger item for set aside for lawsuits,

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whether it's somebody slips on a sidewalk or something like that.

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I think if somebody could investigate that, and it's got

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to be public records, somebody get investigate that and figure

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out how much they set aside, how much they've paid

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people over the years, I think that that would open

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a can of worms that they just don't want open.

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Speaker 1: Well, so they so a couple of things.

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Speaker 2: Number One, there could be insurance payouts, so that would

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not come out of the city budget.

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Speaker 1: For example, right if you've got.

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Speaker 2: Insurance for like a slip and fall or something like that,

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and then the insurance company pays it out, so that

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might not be reflected in whatever that whatever those expenses

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might be. But you say, you would think that it's

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public information. And here's the problem, and that's what these

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last two cases are really about, whether it's the payout

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to Jennings or now the payout to Patterson. It's that

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the city management does not believe that these things are disclosable.

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They don't They don't think they should have to tell anybody.

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The Charlotte Observer asked for copies of the settlement and

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the city refused.

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Speaker 3: But isn't last year's budget and what was up or

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down against budget? Actual expenses against budget? Isn't that public record?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the budget is, but you don't know what like

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if and I have not checked to see if they

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you know, put all like lawsuits, settlement, money payouts or

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something in one category. It may come from individual agency budgets.

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It may be buried somewhere in there, could be just

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under legal right, could be just under the management's city

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manager's office, right, who knows where it is. But even

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then they're not going to break it down per case,

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you know what I mean. They're not going to say,

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here's a payout for a lawsuit brought by John Doe

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or whatever like. They're not going to have it all

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broken down like that, especially when they don't believe they

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need to tell you if the you know, the lawsuit

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is coming from somebody who's employed by the city. They're

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not going to say they don't believe it's it's public record.

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They think it's it's personnel.

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Speaker 3: Well, they may be right and they may be wrong.

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Speaker 1: They're not right.

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Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, like the state auditor says, they are

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not right, and that's why he launched this investigation again

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on a settlement from the City of Charlotte to an employee.

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First it was Jennings they probe that got that settlement

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information released, and now they're going after this settlement.

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Speaker 3: And I get the insurance is probably a liability insurance,

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but they probably retain retainage. I think it's the word

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up to a certain limit, just like a deductible on

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a health insurance plan. You pay that first. But I

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think that some interpped investigator could find that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Pete, I appreciate the call. Great name too, by

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the way, I appreciate the call. All right, man, SA, No,

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it's it's a good question. Like I said, I have

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not gone into the budget to divulge it or to

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discover that. But the problem here is that the city,

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even when the settlement is done. I understand during negotiations, right,

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they go into closed session. They're talking about legal issues,

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personnel matters.

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Speaker 1: I get all of that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not unreasonable, right, you want those attorney client discussions protected.

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Speaker 1: I get that.

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Speaker 2: But when the settlement is agreed upon and the order

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is entered, and the money starts changing hands, like that's

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our tax money, we should we should know. You know

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how much that settlement is for and what the case

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is about. Right, if people are filing a lawsuit, that's

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all public information. We've known the allegations brought by Lance

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Patterson for seven years. They've been going back and forth,

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they've been going through mediation all of this. We haven't

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been privy to all of those details, as.

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Speaker 1: We shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: But when you come to a resolution and part of

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the resolution is to take my money and give it

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to some disgruntled employee in order to make the lawsuit

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go away, well then you know I would like to

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know what that cost is. But from the Observer's story,

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says the city refused to provide copies of the settle

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to the Charlotte Observer, leaving its details unknown. But a

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WBT news reporter, just some random reporter. They couldn't they

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know his name. By the way they know Brett's name.

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I think Brett used to work for them, like they

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know his name, but at least at least they put

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the call letters in there, so you know, small victories.

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A WBT news reporter posted screenshots and details about the

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settlement on x on Monday, and then yesterday Brett had

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on his program, State auditor Dave Bullock to talk about it.

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All right, if you're listening to this show, you know

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I try to keep up with all sorts of current events,

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00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:37,920
and I know you do too, And you've probably heard

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00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,000
me say get your news from multiple sources. Why well,

384
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,720
because it's how you detect media bias, which is why

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00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,960
I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app

386
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,400
and it's a website, and it combines news from around

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00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,839
the world in one place so you can compare coverage

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00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:56,759
and verify information. You could check it out at check

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00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,319
dot ground dot news slash. I put the link in

390
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,480
the podcast description too. I started using ground News a

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00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,240
few months ago and more recently chose to work with

392
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:09,680
them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly

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00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,359
how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot

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00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,240
feature shows you which stories get ignored. By the left

395
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,559
and the right. See for yourself check dot Ground, dot News,

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00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,039
slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen

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00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:27,160
percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to

398
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,640
get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not

399
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,640
only helps my podcast, but it also supports Ground News

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00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,680
as they make the media landscape more transparent. All right, So,

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North Carolina State Auditor Dave Bullock was on Breaking with

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00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:46,559
Brett Jensen last night, This is on WBT at six

403
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,319
till seven, and they were talking about this investigation now

404
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,799
and the requests for information from the City of Charlotte

405
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regarding this settlement, and Auditor Bullock explain why they started

406
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to look into this matter.

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Speaker 4: We saw already that the City of Charlotte had created

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and completed one behind closed door settlement with the previous

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police chief, and then news reports indicated that they had

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entered into well, actually entered into a settlement because the

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city decided prior to trial not to try the case

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with the battalion fire chief. And so we said, well,

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and the indication in the federal court documents was that

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the case had been settled, and we could find no

415
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evidence or indication that the public had been made aware

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of any monetary payment to the battalion chief, and a settlement,

417
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you know, sort of indicates that there's likely some dollars

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that have been paid out. So we initiated an investigation

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to find out how much or whether the City of

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Charlotte taxpayers had paid the battalion chief money in response

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to a lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: And we had just under one hundred thousand dollars. He

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said that the City of Charlotte appears to be playing

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some gamesmanship when it comes to disclosing these kinds of settlements.

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Speaker 4: I was very clear when we initiated the investigation on

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the behind closed door settlement with the former chief of

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Police that the position of the State Auditor's Office is

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that any expense of taxpayer money is the business of

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the people who pay taxes. So it's the people's business

430
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with how much money is spent. Now, not to move

431
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forward with any additional comment on this ongoing investigation, but

432
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the previous findings that we made in the chief of

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police settlement, the former chief of police's settlement case that

434
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we looked into, the city responded that they would think

435
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about and I'm paraphrasing, but that they would think about

436
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:21,240
it or give it some consideration as to whether they're

437
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:29,079
want to release dollar amounts expended to settle lawsuits that

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00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,680
they believe were personnel related. I've just got to tell you,

439
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:36,519
from the position of the State Auditor's office, I'm going

440
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:39,920
to repeat myself for the third time. Any expense of

441
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taxpayer dollars is the business of the people of North Carolina,

442
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no exceptions. And the gamesmanship that appears to be being

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played in the City of Charlotte is not acceptable in

444
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,920
my opinion, to the taxpayers of Charlotte. They deserve to

445
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know how their money is being spent. After all, this

446
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is not the city council's money, it's not the city

447
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manager's money, it's not the city attorney's money.

448
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Speaker 3: It's the people's money.

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Speaker 1: Right, So what he's talking about there is in the report.

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Speaker 2: So when the auditor does these types of reports, these audits,

451
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they will compile the information. They'll put together a draft

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report highlighting the deficiencies or problems whatever. They then send

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it to the government or the agency or whatever it

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is that they're auditing. They'll send it over to them

455
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so they can then respond to all of the problems

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that have been identified, saying Okay, we'll fix that, we

457
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,559
disagree with that, we agree with that, whatever, and then

458
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those responses get included in the final audit report. So

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that's where we are sort of in this case. They

460
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sense these questions over to the city, and that's what

461
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,880
he's referencing there, is that the city's response was that

462
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they don't like, Okay, we'll think about giving you information

463
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about other settlements that the city manager has done. And

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you just heard him say, like, that's not acceptable. This

465
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is not up to you to decide to disclose taxpayer

466
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funded settlement amounts. That's not up to you to decide

467
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,519
that you have to disclose it. Let me jump over

468
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,000
to the text line here. This is from seven oh

469
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,160
four number Pete. You might be misreading the payout situation.

470
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,039
Staying under the one hundred thousand dollars limit provides the

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council with plausible deniability, does it not?

472
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Speaker 1: It does?

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Speaker 2: See, So this is the question that now every council member,

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except for the new ones that just won their election,

475
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,960
they wouldn't have any information on this. But all of

476
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the members of council at the time this settlement was reached,

477
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,559
did they know did they know what the settlement was

478
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:01,839
did they know that the city manager had done this

479
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:04,079
or does he get to do these things? Like with

480
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,039
the he can award contracts they changed this also, like

481
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:13,279
in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen, he has the ability. Yeah,

482
00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:16,119
twenty eighteen. In December they voted nine to two, the

483
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:18,400
council did to allow him to spend up to half

484
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,720
a million dollars on contracts without any public notice or

485
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:26,240
any public vote. And so with the settlements it's one

486
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:30,519
hundred thousand. So the city council just like blind to this.

487
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:33,359
They're like, we got better things and bigger things to

488
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,119
worry about, like this isn't Meanwhile, they gave themselves a

489
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,680
pay raise to like over fifty k a year because

490
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,680
there's a full time job. How is it a full

491
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,400
time job? You're not even looking at all of the

492
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,839
contracts and settlements anymore. All right, that'll do it for

493
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:48,720
this episode.

494
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,119
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.

495
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,359
Speaker 2: I could not do the show without your support and

496
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,079
the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast,

497
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,519
So if you'd like, please support them too and tell

498
00:30:57,559 --> 00:30:59,279
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499
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:03,400
patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot

500
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,240
com again, thank you so much for listening, and don't

501
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,160
break anything while I'm gone.