WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:03:17.080 Suss all right, welcome another installment of the madness and 2 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.520 the insanity, the fun that we call Open Debate Forum. 3 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:30.840 Today's topics are anything related to evangelicalism, dispensationalism in times, prophecy, nation, 4 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:38.159 state of Israel, church history, the papacy, Roman Catholicism, Islam. 5 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:42.479 I didn't have space to put Muslim or Islam in there, Calvinism, 6 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.159 you name it, all those topics. First up, as Julio, 7 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.159 if you hit yourquests to speak, I'll bring you up 8 00:03:49.680 --> 00:04:01.319 and you can discuss what you'd like. That applies to 9 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:05.120 everyone but Chase Haggard. Everyone else is allowed to speak. 10 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:16.720 Chase Haggard is not allowed to speak. Julio. I tried 11 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:18.279 adding you. It doesn't let me add you. So I 12 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:23.079 don't know what issue is. So there were several evangelical 13 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:24.639 guys who said they were going to come to debate. 14 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.079 I doubt that they actually will show up, but we're 15 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.600 gonna have fun. Nonetheless, if they don't show up, feel 16 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:38.120 free to time in ask questions. Just hit request to speak. 17 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.839 If you have a debate topic, you're welcome to hop up. 18 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.639 Have the microphone put me in my place. I'm really 19 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:55.319 looking forward to getting demolished and smashed. I got smashed 20 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:57.920 by a misfit patriot. I got smashed by Bryce and 21 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:03.439 Gray and some of that crew said they're gonna come 22 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:07.360 smash me today. So I'm hoping that I can come 23 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:18.839 get smashed. I'm really a year to get smashed. If 24 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.240 you now, there's some wine moms too. I sent the 25 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.560 link to a couple of wine moms. I sent it 26 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.120 to a Mormon woman who was talking smack. 27 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.199 So we should be getting some action, getting a little play, 28 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:53.759 get a little bit of you know what, but. 29 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:55.920 Nobody wants to. 30 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:56.439 I don't know. 31 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:59.879 It's like I even sent it back to Donnie Darkened. 32 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:03.439 I didn't realize he's a lunatic that thinks that Trump 33 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:07.360 is the Antichrist. So we're talking about somebody actually even 34 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.319 way whackier than I thought. Like when he said that 35 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:14.439 the councilor and I see happened in three hundred and 36 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.000 they created the Bible, I was like, Okay, we got 37 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:21.879 we got some low tier trash on hand, but Trump 38 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:30.680 is the Antichrist. Wow, it's like even it's even next level. Dog. Well, 39 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.959 while we're waiting for any of those wonderful intelligent beings 40 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.600 to make their way here. Does anyone else have any topics, issues, questions, discussions? 41 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.600 We are not on YouTube, So what would you like 42 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.240 to talk about? Hit request to speak? If you like 43 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.079 to come up and I will give you the microphone 44 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.560 and you can speak. We have our first beloved speaker, 45 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:58.199 who I've forbidden to speak, but I'm going to now 46 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:05.560 revoke my papal van on speaking for this person. He 47 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:10.800 is now unexcommunicated from speaking, and he may now speak. 48 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:17.680 I just wanted to just wanted to come on and 49 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.120 let people know that I'm not forbidden to speak. I've 50 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.759 overpowered Jay with my sheer will and a force of 51 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.680 masculine magnetism. So I just wanted to show that domineering. 52 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:34.120 And I know who the Antichrist is. It's not Trump. 53 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.800 I mean, I don't want to get into that right now. 54 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.360 And we do have vegans that have seemed to there 55 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.759 are vegans who present the pretty strong evidence that Tristan 56 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:46.959 might be Antichrist. I'll just say. 57 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.279 That, let's let's just leave it at that. Let's just 58 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:49.920 leave it at that. 59 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:55.319 You know, maybe as a child, maybe I sometimes didn't get, 60 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:57.800 you know, to finish the last bowl of ice cream. 61 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.800 Numerous times and could that be indicted if someone being 62 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:02.560 the answer Christ Maybe maybe not. 63 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:03.040 I don't know. 64 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:08.959 Well, we can't exclude any evidential possibilities in this kind 65 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:14.519 of a scenario. 66 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:19.040 What what's up, Hey, Jay, thanks for bringing me up. 67 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:24.120 I just had a question about like dispensationalism Calvary and 68 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:27.560 in regards to like Calvary Chapel churches and kind of 69 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:32.279 like their connection to the intelligence Asien seasons. I don't know, 70 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.559 maybe the CIA something that I noted, Like I used 71 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:38.480 to go to Calgary Chapel churches. I'm leaning towards Orthodoxy, 72 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.080 but I used to go to Calvary Chapel churches and 73 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.879 I saw, like right after the October seventh attack and 74 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.440 when there was a major protest in the most sort 75 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:53.399 of western world, like kind of like pro Palestinian protests, 76 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.559 all of a sudden, the pastor the churche that I 77 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:56.879 used to go. 78 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:57.639 To was pretty big. 79 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:02.799 He's change into his stern every Sunday. It was about 80 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.879 the necessity of Israel, the necessity of like what what 81 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:09.639 how much do you owe or your allegiance to Israel. 82 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.600 Or yeah, they're all paid off by various foundations and things. 83 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.840 Tanks very well known. They've been paid off for a 84 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.120 long time, just like John Hagey. 85 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:21.159 Yeah, and he used to sometimes even brag about the 86 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:24.519 pastor with sometimes even bragged about like, oh, my connections 87 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:27.440 in the intelligence seasons. He has told me that this 88 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.080 was happening or the or like the the Arc of 89 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.480 Noah is like on the on the in Turkey on 90 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.240 the mountains. And then the intelligence agencies have told me 91 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.320 because they have pictures, and I'm like okay. 92 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:39.960 And then if there's a lot of con men in 93 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.039 the Calgary Chapel, in fact, a lot of the people 94 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.679 in our circles, like we father Deacon and Aias was 95 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.600 raised in Calgary Chapel and went to Cay Calgary Chapel 96 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:51.639 High School. So yeah, we we we know quite a 97 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:54.320 bit about that on our side. I think the CIA connection, 98 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:58.559 if I recall, was Lonnie Frisbee. He's one of the 99 00:09:58.600 --> 00:09:59.960 early founders of the Calvary Chapel. 100 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.240 But what is your impression about like of them like today, 101 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:06.720 Like I mean, do you think most of the other 102 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:08.679 branch that was set up like that, but most of 103 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:12.559 the other other other ones that were open later on, 104 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.639 do you think they're still kind of like pretty pretty 105 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.399 connected with the intelligence agencies, or they're like kind of 106 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.159 like doing their own thing or b. 107 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.799 I would assume that they're still loosely connected. I don't 108 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.279 know how extensive it actually is, but I mean I 109 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:32.639 think they definitely push, you know, various versions of dispensationalist 110 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:37.919 type views. Maybe not a full on, you know, Schofield style, 111 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.440 but there's still like a rough dismensationalism. 112 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:45.039 They still teach, yeah, around that time, like every week. 113 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:49.519 So the the the actual Sundays we will go to, 114 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:51.360 they would they would do worse, buy worse. They will 115 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:53.639 go to the entire Bible right and totally abandoned that, 116 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.519 and every Sunday it will be about necessity of Israel 117 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.279 and how much do you and how much do you 118 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.200 always rile or the Jewish people? And I'm the glad 119 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.639 couldn't glass this time. 120 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:06.759 Well, the reason for this, as we talked about last night, 121 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:09.559 is because all of these Protestants and Evangelicals are not 122 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.399 in the church, and they don't have the church, so 123 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:16.320 they're missing the fact that the Church is the fulfillment 124 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.519 of the typology of Israel, and Israel is divorced, as 125 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.879 Joseiah says, and as the Book of Revelation says, when 126 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.000 the bold judgments are poured out on the city where 127 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:32.080 Jesus was crucified, that's all seventy eighty's punishments that fulfill 128 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:36.080 Luke twenty one in Matthew twenty four. So all that 129 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.440 proves the divorce of Israel. And yet God God kept 130 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.559 the Covenant, because as Ezekiel sixteen and Jeremiah thirty one 131 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:45.879 and thirty three say, the New Covenant, which is not 132 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:51.440 according to the Covenant with Moses, is the covenant that 133 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:55.879 fulfills all the previous covenants. That's why I second for these. 134 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.200 One says that all the promises of the Covenant are 135 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.639 yeay in Christ. There's no such thing as a dual covenant. 136 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.559 There's no separate covenant for Jews as a nation state 137 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:08.240 because the nation state of Israel literally was a type 138 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:16.399 of the Church. As Galatians six sixteen says, that's all 139 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:16.600 I have. 140 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:17.879 Thank you, thanks for bringing me. 141 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:25.159 Up all right. Next guy raised Us says that we 142 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.120 don't know our Bibles, and he's going to set it straight. 143 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:36.240 He says, the Orthodox don't know the Bible. Go ahead, 144 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:43.559 you got an unmute dog do a mixtape for us. 145 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.120 Okay, So first of all, you you're actually you're wrong 146 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:54.960 on the account of the Jewish people. And secondly on 147 00:12:55.360 --> 00:13:00.159 the issue about Israel and evangelicals. I'm an Injuria and 148 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.480 I've lived in a journal all my life. I've never 149 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.159 had anything to do with your intelligence agency. Yet the 150 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:10.480 Bible speaks for the Jewish people, if you. 151 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:16.679 Read Picks, the Bible speaks for Christianity. Hold on, what 152 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:21.799 does say who does glacious threes say? Is the fulfillment 153 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.440 of thea? 154 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.440 Can you come down? You mistake you guys, mickeys. You 155 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:33.639 flesh out one scripture and you forget. 156 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.519 That literally for the previous guy ten scriptures? What are 157 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:38.159 you talking about? 158 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:40.600 Can you listen to me? 159 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.720 The Book of Doations three? Shut up round booting you. 160 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.240 What does Galatians three say? 161 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:50.879 The problem that you guys. 162 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:54.240 You can't even form sentences. You wanted to refute us, 163 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:55.639 and you can't form a sentence. 164 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:01.159 A research on the timeline we do your books? Reaching 165 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.320 ross was reaching off that galicians should. 166 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.200 Anything to do. It has nothing to do with who 167 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.960 the fulfillment is, the timing of the writing, has nothing 168 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:15.159 to do with who the talk to. This this is 169 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.159 what these people are this is the stupidest people on 170 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:27.519 the internet. That's funny. Okay, I'm. 171 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:37.279 Here, ye all right, Well I actually had two questions, 172 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:38.600 but I'm I'm gonna leave with the person. 173 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:39.519 So all right. 174 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.240 So the other night when you were baiting the whatever 175 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:47.039 whatever the guy's name was, mister Patriot, I was. I 176 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:48.519 was one of the ones he was calling the sim 177 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.480 because I just just like, just like Chase said, not 178 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.399 not Chase Haggard, the other Chase, you know, the one 179 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.759 from whatever podcast. Just like he said, I've seen him 180 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.720 like on the timeline like a lot the past couple 181 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:06.360 of weeks, you know, just like trying to trying to 182 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.320 counter counter you know, like the anti Israeli stuff or whatever. 183 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:15.039 And I've seen absolutely nothing about him in regards to theology. 184 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.000 So me and a couple of the a couple of 185 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.559 gods that I'm sure they follow you, like, we asked, 186 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.960 like we just left comments like do you, like, do 187 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.279 you actually know anything as far as theology specifically? I mean, 188 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.120 he didn't, he didn't necessarily like react to my. 189 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:32.879 Guy. 190 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.759 He was he responded to specifically, And that's the one 191 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.519 that you saw where he said it doesn't matter if 192 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.919 the argument is garbage. Uh so I kind of like 193 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.919 we I'm assuming everybody else like kind of anticipated what 194 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:49.639 was gonna happen. But Jack, you still hear. 195 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.399 Me you're cutting it out sort of. I mean I 196 00:15:53.399 --> 00:16:11.240 heard I'll drop down to come back in Nylis Nilos. 197 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:12.919 You want to talk. 198 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.440 H mister Dyer, Thank you. I appreciate that. It's good 199 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:19.159 to be on the show. 200 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:19.639 Uh. 201 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.720 Players finally gets to talk to him, big fan. Been 202 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.799 following you for a few years, big fan of Alex 203 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:26.960 for a very long time. 204 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:29.120 You know. 205 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.120 Uh, it was really pleased to see your work that 206 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.799 you've been doing with Sam Hyde. I met him in 207 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:39.320 person at one of his shows, uh not too long ago, 208 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.600 and I, uh, you know, I mentioned, you know, hey, 209 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.600 I appreciate the great work that you guys are doing, 210 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.799 and uh, you know, I hope you you know, I 211 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.080 don't know if you've orthop told him, but I mentioned 212 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.320 to him. I was like, hey, you know, you're looking 213 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.399 into orthodoxy. I uh, you know, I hope you continue. 214 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:55.519 To do so. 215 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.000 And he's he gave me this kind of strange look. 216 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.679 He's always kind of like tearing up a little bit, 217 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:05.319 and I, uh, it was it was funny. I found 218 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:06.839 out after the show that there were a bunch of 219 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.200 other Orthodox people that had gone up to him and 220 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:12.000 said the same thing and asked him the same question, 221 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.039 and you could tell that we were like, we were 222 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.400 like styopping him into uh to Orthodoxy. 223 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:19.000 So that was. 224 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.160 Yeah, sorry for that for the ramblings story. I just 225 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.039 had to share that with you. But I really appreciate 226 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:31.960 art work. I had some yes, So I just want 227 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.400 to preface this with a statement, I'm a baptized Orthodox. 228 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.680 These are not my positions. These are positions that I'm 229 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.559 trying to argue people out of, and I hot to 230 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:47.640 source your arguments in order to do that. And it's 231 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.240 partially my fault because I would like read pill people 232 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.079 before discovering the church, and now I'm like having to 233 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.400 undo the damage I've done because a lot of the 234 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:00.799 things that I used to iss, I used to hold 235 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:05.160 her you know, heretical, and so a lot of this, 236 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.519 I guess is penance on my part. So the first 237 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:13.799 question I had is, so, what is your strongest argument 238 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:19.799 for refuting I guess what. I don't know if you're 239 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:24.440 familiar with the whole Tartaria mud flood hypothesis, but one 240 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.279 of the arguments that people in that sphere of thought 241 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.680 think is they refer to what they call the little 242 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.160 season of Satan. Essentially, I assume this is after the 243 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.160 millennial reigin Satan is loosed for a time, and their 244 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.359 argument is that will the you know, Christ has already 245 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:47.200 come and gone, and that we're essentially the descendants of 246 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.720 those that were left behind and and we're like in 247 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.920 this last season of temptation. And one of their arguments 248 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.559 for this is it's like, well, there's no there's no emperor, right, 249 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.759 there's no acumen a, there's no orthodox monarch really that 250 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.799 you can point to, and that is kind of a 251 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:10.000 sign of that we're in that little season and the 252 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.200 torments that we're enduring, you know, sort of like I 253 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:16.319 believe with Saint Pas he said that the trials of 254 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:18.119 those living in the last days would be equal to 255 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.240 those of the apostles, you know, sort of along that 256 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.400 line of thinking, what's your can I can I get 257 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:23.160 your thoughts on that? 258 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:26.960 Well, first of all, I think all the Tartaria stuff 259 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:32.000 is absolutely retarded in a waste of everyone's time. Somebody 260 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.960 tying in Tartaria to the end times just sounds like 261 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:39.519 next level Skitzo. So I don't even know that you 262 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:41.920 could reason with people that think this way. First of all, 263 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:46.279 the history of the Church is very clear in terms 264 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:50.759 of things like apostolic succession, the teachings of the church fathers, 265 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.640 documentical councils. There's no gigantic loss of time. If if 266 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.400 there's some of the people that if I recall, they 267 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:03.200 hold to like vast changes in the in the dates 268 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.279 and like we're missing centuries or some kind of nonsense 269 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.240 like this Chase humoicism. 270 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:10.079 Yeah, they. 271 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.279 I know, Tartaria people, and it's just I mean, it's 272 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.519 it's a it's a cool like sci fi story. I mean, 273 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.319 you can just respond by just just explicate, like the 274 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.519 history of Aracus. I mean, that's the same that holds 275 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:31.119 the same level of justification, justification and actual historical veracity, 276 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.279 because they're they're just saying, oh, we lost all this time, 277 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.359 Well how do you know that? And then there they'll 278 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.720 make claims and reach back into this lost area of 279 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.680 time and just pull things up and just it's just 280 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:44.599 all arbitrary. 281 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.640 Like there's also questions. 282 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:53.240 There's also no millennial reign, like a we're not pre millennialist. 283 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.119 You cannot believe in a literal millennium in the Orthodox 284 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.799 Church just gets condemned as a second ecumenical council. So 285 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.480 this sounds like a mix of like Protestant premillennial stuff 286 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:11.559 with weird tartaria conspiracy theories, and it's all just pure gibberation. 287 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:17.279 Like like Chase said, it's just at hawks. So, I 288 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.839 mean history the Church are very clear in terms of 289 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:24.240 things like a succession, so there's no like hidden there's 290 00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:27.039 not like a missing thousand years or whatever these people 291 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:27.920 say it's just crazy. 292 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.279 But yeah, but how do you know that. 293 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.559 Because what I just said, like we have the successions 294 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.680 of the bishops, I mean, unless you want to say 295 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.359 that a succession went away and like what we have 296 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.039 today is all fake bishops and. 297 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.440 Well, and that's the thing is is you're gonna you're 298 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.720 gonna claim this lost period of time but then still 299 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.599 appeal to things that rely upon an accurate historical record. 300 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.480 It's just really goofy. 301 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.880 Also, I'm not I mean, I don't know that there 302 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:04.279 is any guarantee that there would be some ever living 303 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.039 Orthodox monarch. And to say that we are living after 304 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.240 the end of the millennium, the millennium is the Church. 305 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.359 The Church is the Kingdom. The Church is still here, 306 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.079 so it hasn't ended or gone away. The other thing 307 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.240 is that you need to look into partial preterism because 308 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:26.599 this cures a lot of this stupid evangelical based in 309 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.400 time speculation. And even some of the Orthodox people and 310 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.480 the monastics can go crazy with these end time speculations. 311 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:35.880 I mean, this is pretty well known. A lot of 312 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.119 monasteries and people go crazy. You have people in Greece 313 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.079 saying that furbies were Antichrist. You had people in Greece 314 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.480 saying that barcodes were the mark of the Beast. I mean, 315 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:53.839 it's just crazy speculation stuff. But I don't even listen 316 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.160 to tard target people, so I don't like, I don't 317 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:01.279 know that much about it. I think Chase is basically 318 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.599 marrying a girl from Tartaria. 319 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.440 I think, well, the thing is understand Tartaria. 320 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.960 You need to understand the Spacing Guild and the intergalactic 321 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:11.599 spice trade. 322 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:17.400 I thought you were marrying Princess Irulan from Tartaria aka Irakus. Correct. 323 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.720 Well, yeah, but you're not even gonna address all right, 324 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.920 I'm just gonna mute you're gonna address anything I'm saying. 325 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.559 You know that in this in this space, all I 326 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:29.640 do is mute people. There was a guy saying that 327 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.599 yesterday all you do and there's mute people. 328 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.799 I mean I'm muted right now. 329 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:40.119 Yeah, even though the only mute button mutes everyone, which 330 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:45.680 I never No one's always muted, So no space is 331 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:51.519 always muted. The only muted space is the space that 332 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:52.559 Chase occupies. 333 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.039 Yeah, that's real funny from somebody who doesn't even realize 334 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.880 that mudflows wiped out all of history exactly. 335 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.079 There was a mud baptism like Noah's flood. 336 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.359 Well, what people don't want you to know is things 337 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:16.359 in Hollywood, like like the the mud wrestling scene from from. 338 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.680 It's a secret symbol. It's a symbol telling us what's 339 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:19.119 going on. 340 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.160 Yeah, that's actually a symbol telling us what happened back 341 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:22.880 into Tartaria. 342 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.680 It was in the World Faral movie. Oh what's it called? 343 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:31.119 Yeah, hi guys, I just just real quick, I just 344 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.680 I was wondering if I could address the concerns of 345 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.960 the last collar and just make mention of what is it? 346 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.599 I think second Theologians, wasn't it. Yes, that's the New Bible. 347 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:47.240 Hold right where he talks about you know, there's so 348 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:50.920 many New Testament passages. Back when when I was a Protestant, 349 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.559 I spent a lot of time refuting these kinds of 350 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.200 you know, nonsensical skill field type dispensational. 351 00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:04.240 Arguments. And the New Testament is so. 352 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:09.079 Rich with with passages that clearly refute this talking about 353 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:09.880 the resurrection. 354 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:12.480 You know, they. 355 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.279 Let's see, they will know whise precede those who are 356 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.119 who are are dead in Christ, but they will rise first. 357 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.720 You know, I I used to be really good at, uh, 358 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.440 you know, reat reiterating these passages. But I was wondering 359 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:35.759 if Jay, if you could maybe mention some of the 360 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:42.400 stuff and Matthew and second Thessalonian or second Theologians, and uh, 361 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.839 you know, some of the other passages that just clearly 362 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.359 show that on you know, on that last day, all 363 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:52.519 that are in the grave, show here his voice the 364 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.319 righteous under the resurrection of eternal life. 365 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:54.480 Right. 366 00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:57.839 So John five, you're right when you compare that to 367 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.160 what's in for Thessalonians about well the resurrection, it's the 368 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:06.000 same thing. It's the last day. So in dispensationalism, you 369 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:09.319 have two comings of Christ, which is retarded at the 370 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.279 end of time, right, So he comes back and sets 371 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.519 up a millennial kingdom and then he quote comes back 372 00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:19.680 for the for the resurrection. So it's just stupid, right, 373 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:22.680 There's no two comings of Christ at the end of time. 374 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.480 There's one bodily advent with a resurrection where we are 375 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.200 caught up in the clouds. That's it. And that's why 376 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.400 Jesus speaks of the Last Day, not two last days. 377 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:35.519 One when he comes back and sets up a thousand 378 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.799 year kingdom in Jerusalem with animal sacrifices and all this nonsense, 379 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:43.680 which Hebrews says is Antichrist to go back to that. 380 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.599 So imagine Jesus coming back and setting up an Antichrist 381 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.400 system which he wiped away in seventy eighty, which is 382 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.599 so this is how stupid this is. But yeah, the 383 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.799 first resurrection is baptism because that makes you a member 384 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.720 of the kingdom. That's when you are resurrected into you're 385 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.440 a son of God through water baptism. This is what 386 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.759 Jesus says about the first resurrection Revelation twenty first Resurrection, 387 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.200 and then the second resurrection is Bali resurrection, and then 388 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:18.400 that's it. There are there's no charts with dates and 389 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:21.079 years and months and codes, and like all that stuff 390 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:22.960 is just a bunch of evangelical nonsense. The Book of 391 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.759 Revelation is largely about the Roman Empire and the destruction 392 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.119 of the Temple in seventy eighty. Thus John wrote the 393 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.039 Book of Revelation prior to the destruction of the Temple. 394 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.000 And that's how the book makes sense. It actually all 395 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.640 makes sense. And that's why Neuron Kisar is neuro Caesar. 396 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.000 When you look at when you tabulate neuron Qsar, it 397 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.359 comes out to six sixty six. It's like the one 398 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.319 valid biblical instance of Gamatria. When John says his name 399 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.400 is sixty sixty six, Nero Caesar is sixty six. And 400 00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:59.759 guess what. There's a textual variant the Book of Revelation 401 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:03.440 and it comes out to sixty one six. And one 402 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:08.079 of the textual variants, guess what, neuron Caesar also translates 403 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.920 to sixty one six. Can go either way. Why would 404 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.799 John write that encode? Because John's writing under the Roman Emperor, 405 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.559 and so he's writing two the seven churches. They would 406 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.559 be persecuted if he said, hey, the ruler person in 407 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.640 the churches is Antichrist. So he wrote the name as 408 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:31.000 a code, as Jews often did, and Gamatria is not 409 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:34.480 what idiots on the internet say about the movie PI 410 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.119 or like trying to predict all the future, like the 411 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:40.759 idiot that Jim Bob and Andrew debated Zach Hubbard. It's 412 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:44.440 just the way that Jews would use and tabulate numbers. 413 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.480 They didn't have Arabic numerals, and so Jews, just like Greeks, 414 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:55.680 would use their first ten letters four numbers, and ultimately 415 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.240 the whole system could be a number. So that's the 416 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.559 action origins of Gomatria. And it could also then be 417 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:05.640 used if you didn't know Hebrew, for example, you could 418 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:11.079 write encode, or you could write different numbers. So that's 419 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.200 basics of history and Biblical theology, nothing to do with 420 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:16.160 what idiots on the internet do with. 421 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:20.160 Like I put in the Hitler in the Demitria code, 422 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:23.480 and it told me he's gonna be the Antichrist, all 423 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:24.200 this nonsense. 424 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.880 Yeah, thanks, I really appreciate that. Yeah, it's that's a 425 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.079 pretty thing to refute. It is, and it just astonishes me. 426 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.240 I mean, I personally know people like Hebrew roots type 427 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.799 people who literally believe a lot of them, a lot 428 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:50.279 of Evangelicals literally believe that Christ is coming back to 429 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:55.400 establish an earthly kingdom for a little literal thousand year 430 00:29:55.480 --> 00:30:00.000 reign in Jerusalem, is going to reinstitute the animal sacrifice, 431 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.680 and if the nations of the earth don't come and 432 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:09.160 participate in that animal sacrifice, they won't get rain. That's why, 433 00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:14.440 that's why it seems to me that this would be 434 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:21.359 the perfect recipe to completely deceive uh, Protestants and Evangelicals 435 00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:25.279 into accepting sure, some kind of anti Christ reign in 436 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:25.799 the future. 437 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.839 I mean, it's it's the absolute perfect recipe. 438 00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:33.440 You couldn't come up with a better prescription to deceive 439 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:36.400 you know, these uh, these people. 440 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.880 Yeah, it certainly could play out like that. That's why 441 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.480 we have to stress, as I often do that every 442 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:47.599 time some want well, almost every time someone Tennis quoted 443 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.039 the New Testament, it's not quoted about the end of 444 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.720 the world. And this really ends all pre millennialism, right. 445 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:55.039 Premillennialism is based on the idea that the Kingdom of 446 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.599 God starts when Jesus returns to set up an earthly 447 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:05.559 structure in Jerusalem with a new temple terrain. Okay, they 448 00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.880 think that because they think the famous Messianic psalms on 449 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.279 one ten, Sit in my right hand until I make 450 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.759 your enemies your footstool is about the Second Coming, But 451 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:17.200 every time it's quoted in the New test someone about Christ, 452 00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:21.720 it's about his ascension. So they're confusing the ascension with 453 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:27.079 the second Coming. Super fundamental, obvious mistake. And this is 454 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.839 precisely why they don't understand that the Church is the kingdom. Well, 455 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.680 what does Jesus say to Peter, you are the rock, 456 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:40.400 I will give you the keys of the kingdom. That's 457 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.119 Peter's role as the corfeus, the mouthpiece of the apostles, 458 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.440 not pope, not Vatican one stuff, just the mouthpiece of 459 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.559 the apostles. The Orthodox term for Peter is the corfaeus, 460 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.640 Greek term for the mouthpiece. He's the mouthpiece of the apostles. 461 00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:59.160 He's the symbol of the apostles because of his confession. 462 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.359 But Jesus says the same thing in Matthew eighteen to 463 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:05.559 the entire College of the Apostles, which that guy said 464 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.440 thought was a university. The College of the Apostles just 465 00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:11.119 means the entire group or the entire synod of the apostles, 466 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.960 and they're said to also have the keys of the kingdom. 467 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.839 Keys of the kingdom means the ability to preach, to 468 00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:21.720 remit sins, and to offer the sacraments. That's what the 469 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:25.880 bishops or the episcopate do. The episcopate is a Greek 470 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.079 term that used multiple times the New Testament for the 471 00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.400 successors to the apostles. If you read Timothy, Paul lays 472 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:35.200 his hands on Timothy, tell Timothy to do the same 473 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:40.039 thing for his successors. So there's a direct Apostolic descent, 474 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.519 which is mirrored on the passages in numbers eleven and 475 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.200 other attacks in the Old Testament. When the laying out 476 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.079 of hands passes the Holy Spirit, it's no longer an 477 00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:56.440 ironic biological priesthood. It's now a spiritual priesthood of the Church, 478 00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:01.480 which is a fulfillment of the ironic, livid priesthood. It's 479 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.400 the Melchizdukian priesthood, which Paul says that hebre was seven 480 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:09.240 is superior to the ironic. So everyone who wants to 481 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.720 go back to temples, animal sacrifices and all that is 482 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.839 negating the Kingdom, negating the Church, negating the history of 483 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:21.559 the Church, and going back to something that is retrogade, 484 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:25.079 and is the type you're forsaking the fulfillment for the 485 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.200 type that's so stupid. This is all right open for 486 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.200 anybody else who wants to talk about it. We can 487 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.160 go to any of the text you want hit request 488 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.119 to speak. I'll bring you up great points there from Paul. 489 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.359 And I know this too directly because when I was 490 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.640 eighteen nineteen twenty when I started reading the Bible. I 491 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.720 still have my prophecy I think I have. I have 492 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.599 my Schofield Study Bible. I don't have my Prophecy Study Bible, 493 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:51.880 but I'm looking at my Scholfield study bubble right now. 494 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.960 So I went through all this. I saw it firsthand. 495 00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:59.640 I was raised Baptist. I know all about pre tribulation 496 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:01.720 rap sure in the end times. I used to be 497 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.920 a pre millennialist. I used to argue for all this stuff. 498 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.639 And then when I understood that all the covenants are 499 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.920 not contrasted and planned bees, but they're all the same Covenant, 500 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.360 and that salvation was always in Christ, even in the 501 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:20.719 Old Testament, and that the millennial reign quote unquote begins 502 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:23.400 when the church is set up. That's it. This whole 503 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:28.519 heresy falls away. And then when you understand partial preterismthew 504 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.280 twenty four, it's over all this heresies is done. What 505 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.880 you would think is obvious if you just read Galatians 506 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:42.199 and Hebrews. But you know, I don't think. I don't think. Actually, 507 00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.199 most of these evangelicals that think that they're like super 508 00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.719 Bible based, they don't actually know what the Bible teaches 509 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.679 like they're literally ignorant of it. But they're always touting 510 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.840 their Bible knowledge. Like that guy that Nigerian got earlier. 511 00:34:56.199 --> 00:35:01.400 You Bible ibra da? Are you gay? Why do you 512 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:06.360 nothing with the baboo? Who wants to come up see here, 513 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:10.599 request to speak? I'll bring you up, baby. I think 514 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:16.960 I've got book over here. If you disagree, if you'd 515 00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:18.519 like to come to the head of the line, if 516 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:19.800 you'd like to discuss. 517 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.480 Bible prophises. Who wants to talk about Bible prophecies and 518 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:30.360 the blood moons of Israel friends, the Bible teachers, the 519 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:31.800 pretipulation and rupture. 520 00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:35.559 I could do a really good fake preacher voice. By 521 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.960 the way, I can even do it, John Hagen. If 522 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.960 you want blood moons of Israel, we don't have any 523 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:48.519 blood moon promoter promoters. What about any moon moonpie promoters. 524 00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:53.320 Anybody believe in moon pies. I know John Hagy does it. 525 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:57.559 Definitely believes in the moon piths. No one, No one 526 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.960 wants to come up and discuss. There's no defenders of 527 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:15.440 this stupid theology. By the way, in Hebrews, that's why 528 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.800 Paul cites someone ten in Hebrews to prove this point. 529 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:20.639 Sit at my right hand, so I make your enemies 530 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:31.039 your frystal right, So kingdom is now hushed tones and 531 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.920 then David hushed and then David Yo, what else? 532 00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:43.519 Yes, sir, question about the prophecies from the Old Testament 533 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.920 regarding Israel. That's say I will come back to its land. 534 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:49.119 How would you interpretuce? 535 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.639 If you read the Book of Acts, those passages are 536 00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:58.320 interpreted as the event of Pentecost. So the Jews in 537 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:03.320 the land right at the time of Pentecost. Peter says 538 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:08.000 that the rebuilt tabernacle of David is the church. The 539 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:13.280 joined together two six that Ezekiel talks about is the church. 540 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:17.559 Read Ezekiel sixteen. It's the same passage. Excuse me, It's 541 00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.079 the same topic as Jeremiah thirty one and thirty three. 542 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:26.159 So when Ezekiel sixteen says that Syria and Sodom will 543 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.280 come into Israel and be a daughter of Israel. How 544 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.800 could Syria be a daughter of Israel? How could they 545 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.639 be together in a covenant? The only way they can 546 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:39.039 be together in a covenant is the fulfillment of all 547 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.920 of those promises in Pentecost, which is the reversal of Babel, 548 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.639 which is the kingdom, which is the Church, one Lord, 549 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:54.159 one faith, one body, one baptism. Thank you. Yes, if 550 00:37:54.199 --> 00:38:00.320 you look at Peter's sermons, Stephen's sermons and acts literally 551 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:08.159 explain these things. Okay, thank you for having me here. 552 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:37.480 What's up, David? I'm you, David. Where'd you go Christmas? Rex? Yeah? 553 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:39.920 What's up? Man? Yeah? 554 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.400 Like, what about the non denominational churches? 555 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.000 Are they? 556 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:46.960 I mean, it's kind of like up in. 557 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:51.480 The air whether they're like dispensationalists or not dispensationalists. And 558 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:56.039 I just wanted your your thoughts on on the non 559 00:38:56.079 --> 00:39:01.679 denominational movement and if dispensationalism is spread throughout those churches, 560 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:03.840 because I have no idea. 561 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:10.719 I'm I don't know the extent, but I'm sure it's everywhere. 562 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:13.000 I don't but I have no idea how expansive. 563 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:20.079 All right, well, I'm not here to defend dispensationalism. 564 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:25.960 So uh huh do you want to defend Catholicism. 565 00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:28.639 I'm not a not really a theist. 566 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.400 You're not a theist? Do you have catholic in your bio? 567 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:32.960 What do you mean? 568 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:34.360 Yeah? 569 00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:38.960 I mean I'm not you know, I'm not apologetic or 570 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:42.679 anything like that. Uh, Catholics are those, you know, the 571 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:43.400 one true faith? 572 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.320 How do you know if you're not, if you're not 573 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:48.599 able to defend that, how do you know? 574 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.480 What do you mean if you're not. 575 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:56.280 Able to defend it? 576 00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:58.840 I'm just not very good at debates and stuff like that. 577 00:39:59.079 --> 00:39:59.800 I don't, you know. 578 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.000 I read a lot. I came back to the faith. 579 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:12.360 I have a lot of Protestant friends. Catholicism seems like 580 00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:16.679 the the most true church, I mean ever founded by Christ. 581 00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:19.559 Well, but what how do you know that? 582 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:19.760 Like? 583 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.599 What are the what are the main arguments you think 584 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.239 make it true or the one true faith? 585 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:30.039 It's the rock in which the church is built. I 586 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:33.400 mean it was Orthodox. 587 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:36.920 The Orthodox Church believes the exact same thing about the Yeah. 588 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.360 Okay, yeah, I don't Yeah, I mean to me, I'm 589 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.320 not you know, I don't care if you're Orthodox or Catholic. 590 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:48.320 I think those are are the so I don't have 591 00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.920 to be to be well. 592 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.719 The one true church is the you know, the Church, 593 00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:00.760 the Apostolic churches, you know, Orthodox to the Church. I 594 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.599 don't know, man, I'm just I'm Catholic. I'm culturally Roman Catholic. 595 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.000 If I was born in Greece, I probably do. 596 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.159 Usually it falls back on a cultural thing, which has 597 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:12.199 nothing to do so if I'm if I was raised 598 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:17.559 a Buddhast, is buddhism't true? No obviously, okay, So what 599 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:19.400 you're born and what you're raised has nothing to do 600 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:26.000 with which one's true false? Right? Uh, it doesn't know, Okay, 601 00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:29.480 So it's doesn't matter if a person's born in Greece 602 00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:35.079 or if they're born in Ireland as to which one's career, you. 603 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:39.360 Know, I, like I said, I don't know, Okay, fair enough, 604 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:52.239 I'm Catholic, Spaghetti, I'm new. 605 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:56.599 Hello. 606 00:41:56.800 --> 00:42:02.320 Yeah, hey, Jay, I saw you Patriot and I thought 607 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.679 it was really funny, but it actually made me kind 608 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:09.400 of sad because my mother is a dispensationalist, and she's 609 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:15.079 very stubborn and not like the brightest bold and when 610 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:18.280 I saw you debating him. It made me, uh, it 611 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:19.639 kind of just reminded. 612 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.760 Me of that, and I was wondering if you had 613 00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.440 any sort of arguments I could tell somebody who was 614 00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.960 not bad faith like that, but also just a suburb 615 00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:31.800 you know, kind of disconvinced. 616 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:33.119 But this is a bullshit. 617 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.239 You know well, I mean, if they're not going to 618 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:39.960 listen to, like, you know, the texts that talk about 619 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:43.599 the divorce of Israel, I don't know what would be convincing. 620 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.599 I mean, Matthew twenty one. If the Parable Divine Dressers 621 00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:49.280 Jesus says towards the end of the Parable that the 622 00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.519 Kingdom of God will be taken from the Jews and 623 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:55.400 given to the Gentiles, and that means, yeah, I show 624 00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:58.519 the largely gentile church. So if they don't understand that's 625 00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:01.159 the divorce of Israel, Like, what does she say that is? 626 00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:05.519 Dude, I couldn't tell you. 627 00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:10.280 Her explanations hinge on like emotional, you know, Hamas's bad 628 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:13.679 kind of arguments. So it's just really sad, to be honest. 629 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.920 The only reasons I have to do with them, I'm 630 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.519 not making exactly exactly. 631 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.239 The only reason I'm even asking you is kind of 632 00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:24.199 because I figured you'd get a laugh out of it, 633 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:24.800 but like. 634 00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:25.760 There's really no hope. 635 00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.880 I'm guessing right, Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, 636 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.159 it just depends a lot of times. We can't like 637 00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:35.639 debate our parents into a position. I mean, my mom 638 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:38.719 is still influenced by this sort of Baptist dispensation and 639 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:44.079 stuff too, So it's just not really probably going to 640 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.079 go anywhere if you're trying to convince your parents of 641 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:50.800 a position, because parents are never convinced by like a 642 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:53.960 child arguing with them, even if the parents are wrong. 643 00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.440 So well, my dad's argument that I'm older than you, 644 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:00.480 so I know what's more true. 645 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.360 It's just from the ultimate boomer age card, Like every 646 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.320 boomer pulls this, you know age cards. 647 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:12.519 Yeah, it's like true in everything I tried to talk 648 00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:16.239 to them about, whether it's geopolitics or anything. They're just like, well, 649 00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:18.719 you know, I was around when we had to hide 650 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.280 under our desks for the nuclear drills, so I know 651 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:22.440 that we can never be friends. 652 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.159 I've heard the boomers. They like it's like one boomer 653 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:27.320 says this, and then the rest of them like repeat it, 654 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.400 Like what does hiding under the desk for a new 655 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.400 Cup to do with anything, anything to do with like 656 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:35.679 good argumentation or like it's. 657 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:40.000 This Yeah, media, you pretty much know you know exactly 658 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:41.719 what I'm talking about, and I figured you could get 659 00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:43.360 a laugh out of it. But it really is sad 660 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.000 at the end of the day. Man, then we just 661 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:46.880 have to pray for these people, you. 662 00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:50.719 Know, really, yeah, I mean, if they can't read Galatians 663 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:52.639 in the Book of Hebrews, both of which are written 664 00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:55.039 to refute this very error, which was one of the 665 00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:57.119 earliest errors in the Church, and if they can't read 666 00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:00.480 Acts fifteen and see that, you know, the Church obviously 667 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:05.320 decided that Gentiles don't support and keep Jewish traditions. I mean, 668 00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:08.840 I don't know what to say other than just I 669 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:12.960 don't know, like, uh, has sony did you want to? Yeah? 670 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.800 I guess, just love your parents instead of trying to 671 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.840 debate with him. That's one thing I've learned. 672 00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:22.000 Uh huh, all right, cool, let me make sure can 673 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.599 you still hear me? 674 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:25.280 Yeah? All right, cool? Just making sure. 675 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.119 All right, So I'm actually gonna switch out the question 676 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.840 I had earlier. I guess there's been enough you know, 677 00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:33.920 discussion about the whole misfit patriot things so I'm gonna 678 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.920 just move it, move that along. Can I ask you 679 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.639 a Can I ask you a political question, like specifically 680 00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:39.280 about Trump. 681 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.119 Well, let's ask the misfit patriot question first, because it's 682 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:48.360 still relevant because apparently there's way more uh you know, 683 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:52.239 dispensational minded evangelical people out here than I expected. 684 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:55.559 Well see, I will. I'll basically just skip to the 685 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:57.679 end of it then. So all right, so at the 686 00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.280 very at the very end, like sense, right before, right 687 00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:04.280 before you, right before you booted him. You know, when 688 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:06.639 he did the whole he did the like retar voice thing. 689 00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:10.440 I'm like, he didn't he didn't finish it, but it 690 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:12.440 was it was clear as they what he was about 691 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.800 to go into was was just arguing numbers with you. 692 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.320 So he like he was getting ready to say, I know, 693 00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:25.360 he spent something out like however many yeah, yeah, of 694 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.840 that type of thing. So like that's that's that's pretty 695 00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:29.719 much all of us. Well, I guess it really wasn't 696 00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:31.199 a question. I was actually just gonna make a point 697 00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.400 that I've seen him, and I saw some and I 698 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:37.320 saw I saw like all up and down like his 699 00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:40.800 you know, his replies or the people that actually still 700 00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:43.599 agree with him after after even watching it, Like, I 701 00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:45.800 don't understand how somebody could see that and then still 702 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:46.519 side with them. 703 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:50.559 But you know, they're well, I mean, I don't even 704 00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:52.800 know what that's supposed to prove that So what just 705 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:57.880 a bunch of Protestants have an erroneous view about in America, 706 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:02.559 about theology. I mean, all that, that's all that proves 707 00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.000 it's just a fallacy. First of all, that the majority 708 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:05.960 make it true. 709 00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:09.039 Yeah, you see, but that's but that's like, that's I 710 00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:11.800 actually wanted to see, like whatever whatever he was gonna 711 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:14.440 say next, because obviously it was gonna be places either way. 712 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:17.639 But regardless of he just appealing to killing the majority 713 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:22.280 of you. So I'm thinking that he say, since they're 714 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:26.000 that many many people that agree with him, like I 715 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:30.559 guess the ironically enough to be an argument that left 716 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:33.000 his shoes all the time against us, that since there's 717 00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.079 x amount of people that agree with his position, ours 718 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:36.719 doesn't matter. 719 00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.280 Because yeah, well yeah, I think what people when people 720 00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:42.559 when people do that, they're looking for rhetorical points. They're 721 00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:44.679 trying to score points to the audience to where they're 722 00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.840 forcing you to say that the majority are wrong and 723 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:51.000 so therefore you're being divisive and this kind of stuff, 724 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:51.760 that's what he's going for. 725 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:55.960 There was something he something he did earlier in the 726 00:47:56.199 --> 00:47:59.119 debate where he was essentially just trying to be tangentially 727 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:01.159 correct about stuff. I think that's even I think that's 728 00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.840 way worse than like people that just try and like 729 00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.559 appeal to majority, like you know, being what's the worst. 730 00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:09.320 But it may it may even be equivocation, not just 731 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:12.039 being pedantic. But yeah, that's that's pretty much. That's pretty 732 00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:13.119 much all I was gonna say about. 733 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:15.239 Okay, you know what, what did you want to say 734 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:16.800 about Trump? All right? 735 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:21.400 So, and and I like, I'm not sure if you 736 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.079 said anything about this recently. I tend to catch every 737 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:24.719 single stream. 738 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:25.039 I don't. 739 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.519 I don't normally catch the spaces unless they're also, you know, 740 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:31.199 like on YouTube. So you may have said something about it, 741 00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:32.679 and I just did, and I just missed it. But 742 00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.599 obviously I agree. I'm glad he's doing the whole, you know, 743 00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:38.679 a bit cool thing. I'm not like Pepe the Frog, 744 00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:40.280 if you you know what I mean by Pepe the Frog, 745 00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:42.679 I'm not. I'm not a doomer when it comes to Trump. 746 00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:44.679 I don't think he's I don't think he's sold. I 747 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:45.400 don't think he's some. 748 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:48.280 I don't. 749 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:50.079 I don't take it that serious as far as it 750 00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.079 as far as it comes with Trump or whatever. So 751 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:56.239 I honestly like my question it kind of just BOI 752 00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:58.239 was up, like, how do you how do you feel 753 00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:02.280 about like how he's done so far? I guess in 754 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.119 the in this current administration, because I do I do 755 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:09.280 agree as far as like with Pepe or whoever, anybody, 756 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:11.280 anybody has been like kind of like kind of shipping 757 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.079 on them for the past couple of months, Like this 758 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:18.119 whole Israel thing is is completely it's completely going overboard, 759 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.440 like not just the support, but it's just it's like 760 00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:23.880 a complete disregard of you know, like us over here, 761 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:26.880 not just him, but obviously every single person he has 762 00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:31.000 up and down his cabinet is absolutely ridiculous. But I 763 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:32.559 just I just wanted to get your opinion on that 764 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.360 because I think one of. 765 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:40.079 The biggest mistakes is that it's all staffs, people of 766 00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:43.079 this very evangelical mindset that we're talking about. I mean, 767 00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:47.840 making that ridiculous con man woman the faith and value 768 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:50.760 as a woman or whatever she is, that paula TBN 769 00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:57.239 clown I mean, that's a huge fail, but I would 770 00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:00.159 say that, you know, it's all the other stuff he 771 00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.800 has done is at least way better than I would 772 00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:07.119 have hoped for. So, you know, I just when good 773 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.239 things happen, I'm like happy because I expect the worst 774 00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:14.679 in politics. So when ever there's anything good, I can 775 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:19.480 just be pleasantly surprised because I expect the worst. Let's 776 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:25.920 see doctor Pete and then we'll go to some of 777 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:32.880 the people in line. We go to seven people. You 778 00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:33.880 got I'm your dude. 779 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:37.760 Oh hey, Jay, they must be a little bit of 780 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:38.599 a delay, can you hear me? 781 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.280 Now? Yeah? 782 00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:42.280 Hey, A quick question for you. I thought it was 783 00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:46.360 just brilliant insightful about this. This numeric number of six 784 00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:48.880 one six or six sixty six has a time stamp. 785 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:50.880 I just want to explore that a little bit more, 786 00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.400 double click on it. Based on that reference, then, what 787 00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.840 can you say about events and revelations that are exposed 788 00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.159 sort of following that passage before? Like, is there anything 789 00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:05.760 else that you would correlate with with references of kingdoms 790 00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.880 on Earth? I mean, was I always was thought that Constantine, 791 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:12.559 the greats Vizantium was a thousand years on the ground, 792 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:14.440 But no, I just wanted to hear more about what 793 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:15.239 your thoughts were on that. 794 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:17.599 Well, I mean, I don't I don't know that I 795 00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:24.480 could specifically identify events after that passage with specific events 796 00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.440 in Church history, because I think that many of the 797 00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:32.880 events in the immediate context deal with Nero Jerusalem and 798 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:36.159 the destruction of Rome. I'm excuse me, the destruction of Jerusalem. 799 00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:40.119 So I think that the whore that aligns with the 800 00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:45.360 beast is the high priest aligning itself with Rome, for example, 801 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.639 the Crucifide Christ. That's why the city in Revelation is 802 00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:51.119 explicitly said to be the city where Jesus was crucified. 803 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:53.119 So I mean, I think John left us no doubts 804 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.320 as to who and what the identity of the city is. 805 00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:01.840 It's the nation state of Israel undergoing the chastisement that 806 00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.800 is mirroring the previous defilings of the Temple, the abominations 807 00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.760 of desolations that we read about in Daniel nine and 808 00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:11.760 in the Book of Maccabees and in the Babylonian Captivity. 809 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.679 So these are previous defilements of the temple and what 810 00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:17.800 Jesus talks about in Matthew twenty four and twenty one 811 00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.920 are the defilement of that existing temple in his day, 812 00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.480 Herod's Temple and the destruction of that temple in seventy 813 00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:29.360 eighty by Titus Vespasian. So you notice this mirroring effect 814 00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:35.159 that occurs. There's no possibility for an Orthodox person to 815 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:41.280 say that the Byzantine Empire is the millennial reign, because 816 00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:45.519 the Second Ecumenical Council forbids any form of killism, which 817 00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:50.000 is any form of literal thousand year reign. So it's 818 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:52.079 not a thousand years. That's what the Creed says. This 819 00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.000 kingdom will have no end, so it has to be 820 00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:58.400 the kingdom is the Church. The Church is eternal. Hence 821 00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:02.639 the Church the kingdom has no end. But I think 822 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:06.719 that aside from a lot of the historical context of 823 00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.760 the Book of Revelation, which we can I think pen 824 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:10.639 on the Book of or that's give me the time 825 00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:13.599 of some of the events are describing the Book of Acts. 826 00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:16.079 Some of what's in Matthew twenty four is in the 827 00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:19.880 Book of Acts, and then that mirrors as a prototype 828 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.440 the end of the world. So the destruction of the 829 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:26.599 temple is a little miniature cosmos when the temples destroy. 830 00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:30.400 That's a sign of the final destruction of the entire universe. 831 00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.360 And so what happens is then mirrored at the very 832 00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:36.760 end end of time whenever, that is when we have 833 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:40.719 the final Antichrist and his attempt to you know, control 834 00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:44.039 everyone and enforce the worship of the beast. And there 835 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:49.039 will be some probably apostate church, which is the false 836 00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:51.320 prophet in the Book of Revelation, all of which again 837 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:56.039 is mirrored in the first century in terms of partial preterism. 838 00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.440 So most of the church fathers, when it comes to 839 00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:04.159 especially Eastern falls, Saint John Christis, sat Athanasius Cyril of Alexandria, 840 00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:06.920 they will interpret the passages like Luke twenty one in 841 00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:12.000 Matthew twenty four Daniel nine as fulfilled in the partial 842 00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:16.880 Predoros first century. Since so even the epistle Barnabas, the earliest, 843 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:20.519 one of the earliest texts, explicitly says a post apisode 844 00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:22.119 at text. It especially says the seventy eighty is a 845 00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:26.199 fulfillment of a lot of these things. So that's my 846 00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:30.199 answer that milk, Miguel, what's up? My godfather, by the way, 847 00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:32.960 just put together and edited a thousand page commentary on 848 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:35.639 the Book of Revelation, So we did a whole podcast 849 00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:39.920 on that written by James Jordan and then edited by 850 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:43.360 my godfather's Orthodox so he kind of tried to shape 851 00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.440 it up a little bit so that there wasn't much 852 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:51.000 Protestant influence in it. But the three volume series called 853 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.880 Revelation Explained by James Jordan is out that my godfather edited, 854 00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:01.320 and it's a really cool series on days of Vengeance 855 00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:06.599 in the Apostle Seeing Anti Christ book from Jordan Reil Monastery, 856 00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:10.519 a little like fifty page pamphlet book. It's good and 857 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:12.599 it makes the point that I just made the very 858 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.000 beginning that seventy eighty is a type of the end 859 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:41.719 of the world. Miguel h Gotta, I'm mute. Miguel Bathe Gotta, 860 00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:47.760 I'm mute. Can y'all know? Amy? 861 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:49.519 Hi? 862 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.599 How can you? Hey? What's up? What's up? 863 00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:56.719 A question about dispensationalism. Do you need to support Israel 864 00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:00.320 to be a dispensationalist, because that there's like of two 865 00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:03.079 sides here. You have people who think that Israel is 866 00:56:03.079 --> 00:56:05.119 important for the end times, and then they support Israel 867 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:07.239 and think that we have a mandate two. And then 868 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:09.360 you have people who take like a really metaphorical view 869 00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:12.159 of Revelation. So my question is what about the view 870 00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:16.079 that Israel is important for end times and that if 871 00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:19.039 you if we look at the Jewish Messiah, he actually 872 00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:22.119 has a lot of similarities with the Antichrist in Revelation, 873 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:24.400 right because the Jewish Messiah. They believe that the Jewish 874 00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:25.480 Messiah is going to come down. 875 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:31.719 Okay, so some dispensationalists will even admit and believe that 876 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.760 there will be a Jewish Messiah that will deceive Jews. 877 00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:40.239 But every dispensationalist in terms of the history of this movement, 878 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:44.280 from Schofield Darby all the way up to you know, 879 00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:50.920 John Hagar whoever, absolutely believes in the mandate for Christians 880 00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:54.559 support to support the secular nation state of Israel. So 881 00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:57.079 you cannot. I've never heard of a dispensationalist who doesn't 882 00:56:57.079 --> 00:56:59.599 believe that. It's kind of wrapped up in the whole idea. 883 00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:03.320 But no, the orthodox position does believe that there will 884 00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:06.199 be a future conversion of the Jews. Most of the 885 00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:10.159 Church fathers explicitly say this. So now that is not 886 00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:12.000 the two things are not equated. 887 00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:13.760 Okay, thank you. 888 00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:14.480 I was worried. 889 00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:16.400 I was a dispositionalist, even though I'm against it. 890 00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:20.880 No, no, no, So dispensationalism is this idea that from 891 00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:25.599 Schofield and John Nelson Darby, particularly the Scofield Bible, is 892 00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:28.880 what popularized it. The idea that there are a series 893 00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:33.719 of conflicting ways that God has chosen to work with mankind. 894 00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:38.559 So when Avenue failed, that was Plan A. God instituted 895 00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:42.199 Plan B right, the Covenant with Noah. When that failed, 896 00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:46.239 God instituted the next one, which is the Covenant with Abraham. 897 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:50.119 So because God said that the Covenant of Abraham is eternal, 898 00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:54.000 Jews think our scimun dispensations think that the nation state 899 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:55.880 of Israel has what they call a dual covenant, that 900 00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:58.239 they have a covenant that was always with Him as 901 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.480 a nation state. So they do not see the Kingdom 902 00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:05.480 as the Church. They do not believe the Church is 903 00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:09.800 the Fulfillment and the Telos of Israel. They think that 904 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:13.199 there's two covenants running parallel. There's a God, a plan 905 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:16.559 that God has for the Church which is separate from 906 00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:21.320 the nation state of Israel. And then Jesus returns after 907 00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.880 the seven year Tribulation to set up an earthly kingdom 908 00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:32.119 in Jerusalem with animal sacrifices and a temple. So that's 909 00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:36.840 the basics of like classic quote dispensationalism all the What 910 00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:40.639 they mean is, in this classic sense, there's seven dispensations 911 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:43.960 of different plans as to how God worked with man. 912 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:48.360 But in the Orthodox jew and in all classic Protestant views, 913 00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:52.519 there's only been one way to be saved in any age, 914 00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:56.639 whether it's Noah, whether it's Abraham, it's faith in Christ 915 00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:01.280 literally the only way. And so the sea that's mentioned 916 00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:05.239 in the Abrahamic prophecies or scim me promises of Genesis twelve, fifteen, 917 00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:10.159 seventeen twenty two, that seed is the Messiah. He is 918 00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:13.599 the Seed, as Paul says in Galatians three in Romans four, 919 00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.239 so the only way to be a member of the Covenant, 920 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:21.280 and there's only one Covenant, is to be in Christ. Hence, 921 00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:24.679 in Romans eleven, Paul says that Jews are grafted out 922 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:29.400 from unbelief, Gentiles are grafted in, and if Gentiles don't believe, 923 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:31.960 they'll be grafted out, and Jews can be grafted back in. 924 00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.239 But the grafting is to one tree, not two trees, 925 00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:39.920 not multiple trees. One lord, one faith, one body, one sheep, fold, 926 00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:43.000 one tree, one vine, et cetera, et cetera, one kingdom, 927 00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:46.400 and you're either enter out based on faith in Christ. 928 00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.360 There's no dual covenant. But it also doesn't mean that 929 00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:51.559 there's no such thing as Jews or that there's not 930 00:59:51.639 --> 01:00:07.440 an as chetological place for a future conversion. David Yo yo. 931 01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:11.719 Yeah, so I had a question about Saint Paul. So 932 01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:15.039 when Saint Paul writes to the churches and his epistles, 933 01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:17.400 we can see that he refers to the believers as 934 01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:21.559 saints as ichioi, the holy ones, which means holy in Greek. 935 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.519 So why does he call them holy if they were 936 01:00:26.599 --> 01:00:27.960 not holy yet? 937 01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:32.400 Because he's intending to spur them on to what they're 938 01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:37.400 called to. So they have the potentiality for that, and 939 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:39.400 then they're called to that. That's why he says, you 940 01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:40.639 have to persevere into the end. 941 01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:45.360 Okay. So they have the potential to be holy, but. 942 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:47.440 Well to be what we call a saint in the 943 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:50.199 sense of like making it to the end of your 944 01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:53.239 life and dying in Christ. Now there are people who 945 01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:53.960 are holy in this. 946 01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:59.199 Life too, Okay, God, so these people can fall off. 947 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.440 Yeah, there's multiple places throughout and that's not where you're 948 01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:02.760 warned of. 949 01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:06.440 Right, Okay, that was my concern. 950 01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:07.719 Thank you. 951 01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:24.880 Felt you know. 952 01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:30.559 I had a question. It was specifically on christology and 953 01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:36.880 the hyposthetic union. And my question is because Christ, like 954 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:41.400 in the an Orthodoxy, Christ shares the same nature as 955 01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:45.800 the Father and the Holy Spirit because he's God. And 956 01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:50.880 when Christ, say, for example, feels something like the crucifixion, 957 01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:56.079 he feels pain the how because his essence, because he's 958 01:01:56.119 --> 01:01:59.559 two persons, I mean his two wills, like human and 959 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:06.679 also God. And my question is, how does this human will, 960 01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:10.679 which I mean his divine will, which comes from his 961 01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:14.199 divine essence, how does the Father not also feel that 962 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:16.760 since he shares the same. 963 01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:20.559 Essence, Because the divine will, just like the divine energies, 964 01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:24.519 are uniquely actualized in each person in their own way 965 01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:28.039 or mode or role. So the Son has a unique 966 01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:32.199 role or mode according to his person or hypostasis by 967 01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:37.599 which he enacts and actualizes this single divine will. So 968 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:42.039 even though there's an inseparability of operations, it doesn't mean 969 01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:44.559 that there's not a distinction in mode. 970 01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:54.119 And by that same extension, how could for example, when 971 01:02:54.199 --> 01:02:56.639 Jesus says I am the father or one? 972 01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:59.639 What does he mean by this specifically. 973 01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:03.079 One in terms of nature, one in terms of pericuesis 974 01:03:03.199 --> 01:03:06.039 which is divine in dwelling. So they perfectly in dwell 975 01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:09.960 one another, and they perfectly share the same essence. 976 01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:15.920 But can can Jesus also share in the attribute of 977 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:24.400 like I'm trying to remember, of begetting another divine person 978 01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:25.239 for example? 979 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:27.920 The no, because that's what we call a hypostatic property, 980 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.599 because that picks out one of the persons. Those are 981 01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:34.639 the properties that are not shareable or communicable. So the 982 01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:38.400 Father is the sole cause found an archae, so he 983 01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:43.039 alone can beget or cause another person. That's what picks 984 01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:46.360 him out as the father. Thus Jesus can't have that 985 01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:49.760 property because that would make him the father. So these 986 01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:52.559 are called hyposthetic properties. But the other things that we 987 01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.400 call attributes or operations or energies, those are the things 988 01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:57.679 that are common to all three persons. And as the 989 01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:03.119 Cappadocians teach, there's nothing in God that is between two 990 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:08.760 or just excuse me. Anything that God has is either 991 01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:11.519 a hyposthetic property proper to one person, or it's a 992 01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:16.079 common attribute common to all three. That's it. So like 993 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:19.000 love a lot of times you'll hear like Roman Catholics 994 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.599 say that this Holy Spirit is love. Now, the Holy Spirit, 995 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.320 just like the Father and the Son all have the 996 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:29.920 attribute or energy of love. So operations or attributes are 997 01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:35.400 not persons. Do that makes sense? Yeah, So it either 998 01:04:35.519 --> 01:04:37.280 has to be It either has to be a property 999 01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:40.920 of one person, like the cause is the Father, or 1000 01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:44.719 it's something that all three share, like love, glory, omnipotence, 1001 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:45.559 et cetera. 1002 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.639 If because I come from a sort of Muslim background, 1003 01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:56.039 that's why I asked, because I sort of struggle with understanding. 1004 01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.400 But if the Father, for example, has the he only 1005 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:03.840 has he he alone has the property of begetting another 1006 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:10.000 person does wouldn't that make the Father a different grade 1007 01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:16.119 of divinity in the in the sense of the divine nature. 1008 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.920 Because that's why it's a property a person and not nature. 1009 01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:22.880 So being the cause in the Godhead is what picks 1010 01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:25.880 out the person of the Father. It's not a property 1011 01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:28.559 the divine nature. So again, the first point that you 1012 01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:32.440 want to understand in our theology is a distinction between 1013 01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:36.079 nature and person. Nature is what's common and person is 1014 01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:40.480 what's particular or what individuates. So I'm the person Jay, 1015 01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:44.519 you're the person, Bob. Personhood picks or hypostasis picks out 1016 01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:48.320 the individual, the subject or the agent. The nature is 1017 01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:50.960 what is what picks out what's common between us. What's 1018 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.440 common between you and I is human nature. So if 1019 01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:56.159 you think about a father and a son, a father 1020 01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:59.199 is greater than the son in one sense, in that 1021 01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:01.920 he is the cause of the son, and the son 1022 01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:05.440 submits to that father in terms of his role of authority. 1023 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:08.159 And this is why we call it monarchical trinitarianism in 1024 01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:10.880 the Orthodox Church. But if you notice between a father 1025 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:14.079 and the son, even the human example, the son doesn't 1026 01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:17.480 have more human nature or less human nature than his father, 1027 01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:20.639 even though his father is the source and his father 1028 01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:23.039 has authority over him. So in the same way, Jesus 1029 01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:26.159 says everything he has he receives from the Father in 1030 01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.079 the Book of John. But that doesn't mean that anything 1031 01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:32.800 that he has is lesser, because as the divine nature, 1032 01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:36.480 it's common amongst all three. There's no such thing as 1033 01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:38.679 levels or degrees of divine nature. 1034 01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:47.119 Okay, in that sense, with the Jesus also receiving because Jesus, 1035 01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:50.920 because I see a lot of people like I don't 1036 01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:54.199 know what's your position on Jesus Jesus not knowing the hour, 1037 01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:59.320 but is it specifically him also receiving that knowledge from 1038 01:06:59.320 --> 01:06:59.920 the Father as well. 1039 01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:03.360 It's a use of rhetoric, just like when he says 1040 01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:04.280 that there's no one good. 1041 01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:09.320 I was I was going to ask you specifically, because 1042 01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.480 I remember one time a Muslim gave me the argument 1043 01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:17.840 that it's the distortion of the text and the apparent 1044 01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:21.280 meaning of the text, because when he says only the 1045 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:25.440 Father is good. After Jesus says that to the man 1046 01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:27.719 approaching him, the man stops calling him good. 1047 01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:32.159 No, it's again, It's just it's a common technique in 1048 01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:35.239 the Gospels to use rhetoric. Jesus says, cut your hand 1049 01:07:35.320 --> 01:07:37.800 off if it causes you to sin. Okay, he's not 1050 01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:39.760 telling you to literally cut your hand off. That's just 1051 01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:44.000 an exaggerated rhetorical statement. In the same way, he says 1052 01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:46.119 there's no one good but God well, but he also 1053 01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:48.480 says that the good Man of the good treasure of 1054 01:07:48.519 --> 01:07:52.480 his heart, brings forth good things. So is he contradicting himself. No, 1055 01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:54.119 I mean, if you read the pastes where it says 1056 01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:55.599 that not even the son of Man, if you go 1057 01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:57.639 a few verses down, the apostles say we know that 1058 01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:01.079 you know all things. So even within the very passage, 1059 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:05.679 it still ascribes omniscience to Christ because he has a 1060 01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:09.079 divine nature, as you pointed out earlier, but his human 1061 01:08:09.199 --> 01:08:11.280 nature did grow in wisdom and knowledge, and so there 1062 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:13.280 is an element of mystery there. But it's not a 1063 01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:17.720 contradiction because Jesus is a divine person with a divine 1064 01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:22.439 mind with omniscience, even though the human nature did grow. 1065 01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:30.600 Is there a way for because typically in the way 1066 01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:36.359 as a Muslim conceive wills and natures is how can 1067 01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:40.079 it not be that a person with two wills, divine 1068 01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:43.319 one and the human one, how can it not make 1069 01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:44.399 up two persons? 1070 01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:49.000 How a property of nature and not a property of person. 1071 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:51.920 This is what I was saying earlier, is that fundamental 1072 01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:56.399 to Trinitarian theology and Christology is the distinction between nature 1073 01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:59.319 and person. And you would be correct if will was 1074 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:01.880 a property of persons, but it's not. It's a property 1075 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:04.439 of nature's and hence in the trinity there's one will 1076 01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:09.800 and three persons. But good questions. I appreciate that. Tron, 1077 01:09:09.880 --> 01:09:15.399 What's up? And then we'll go to truth and emulator 1078 01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:21.439 and ultra kool aid and David, I'm you. 1079 01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:30.720 Hey, So I just had a quick question of hoping 1080 01:09:30.760 --> 01:09:33.920 you'll settle a debate between me and another guy. But 1081 01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:37.239 when you are doing the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church, 1082 01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:42.479 when you're taking the Eucharist, do you participate strictly in 1083 01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:46.479 God's energy or do you or do you participate in 1084 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:49.359 His essence? Or do you believe that the essence is present? 1085 01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:53.079 No one participates in the divine essence, and no one 1086 01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:56.520 believes this, not even Roman Catholics. What you're partaking of 1087 01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:59.439 in the Eucharist, as Saint Cyril of Alexandria says, is 1088 01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:02.640 his applied flesh. And Cyril says in the Two Letters 1089 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:06.239 to six Census that is the uncreated grace and immortality 1090 01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:09.800 and power of God that deifies the flesh of Christ. 1091 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:13.199 In other places, Cyril calls it the energies. So it's 1092 01:10:13.239 --> 01:10:15.800 not in either or you're partaking of the deified flesh, 1093 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.119 including the uncreated energy of Christ. 1094 01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:29.600 Okay, but I guess do you believe that the essence 1095 01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:30.520 is at least present? 1096 01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:31.119 Well? 1097 01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:35.840 The essence energy distinction is fundamental to all the Christian mysteries, 1098 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:38.960 and so we believe in apathetic theology, which means that 1099 01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:41.800 you never see or partake of the divine essence. Nobody 1100 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:45.920 teaches this, not even Roman Catholics, not Protestants, not Orthodox. 1101 01:10:46.239 --> 01:10:50.079 So even though the divine essence is present in some sense, 1102 01:10:50.399 --> 01:10:53.199 you're not partaking of that because no one sees or 1103 01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:55.840 partakes of the Divine essence. We would be persons in 1104 01:10:55.880 --> 01:10:58.399 the Trinity if we took particular the divine essence. That's 1105 01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:00.680 why there's the essence entergy distinction. And according to Saint 1106 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:03.720 Basil that the energies come down to us, but the 1107 01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:05.880 essence we do not know in Letter two thirty four. 1108 01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:09.319 So in the Eucharist, the same principle applies. You're partaking 1109 01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:12.159 of the fullness of divinity and yet not the divine essence. 1110 01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:14.119 So it's not in either or, it's a both, and 1111 01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:17.760 that includes the notion of mystery. Hence the mysteries. 1112 01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:22.079 Gotcha. Thank you for settling that. I appreciate it. 1113 01:11:22.279 --> 01:11:24.159 It's a good question. And also, like you know, when 1114 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:29.279 Christ is present, the divine hypostasis of Christ is what 1115 01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:33.920 becomes incarnate. It's not technically speaking, the Divine Essence that 1116 01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:37.079 became incarnate. It's a divine person with the divine Essence 1117 01:11:37.119 --> 01:11:39.520 who became incarnate. And that's why in the Icon Council 1118 01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:41.880 it says very clear as day, when we pick out 1119 01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:44.840 Christ and the icons, we are not drawing an image 1120 01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:48.279 or circumscribing the divine Essence. We are picking out and 1121 01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:53.840 circumscribing the hypostasis of the sun. And that's the divine hypostasis. 1122 01:11:54.039 --> 01:12:12.239 As the council says, John, what's up? Got un mute? John? Hey? 1123 01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.920 Sorry about that. So a question for you. I was 1124 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:20.760 raised I would say dispensationalists didn't know it at the time, 1125 01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:25.039 but I'm just now sort of had an experience. I 1126 01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:30.039 believe in God now. But if you were to set about, 1127 01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.119 you know, learning about the Bible, is it enough to 1128 01:12:33.319 --> 01:12:37.239 just take each book and know who the author and 1129 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.520 who it was written to and read through it for 1130 01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:43.319 yourself to come to this realization. 1131 01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:50.640 Realization of what. 1132 01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:57.920 I'm sort of sorry. I just followed you, and it 1133 01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:05.000 sounds like it sound like you're coming from more orthodox 1134 01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:08.079 side of things, maybe Catholic. 1135 01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:11.560 Yeah, Orthodox Christians are. 1136 01:13:13.479 --> 01:13:16.359 Okay, And I did hear listening to one of your 1137 01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:20.600 previous things, you said that Protestants, which I would say 1138 01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:25.960 I was raised Protestant are heretics. Is it possible to 1139 01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:29.960 be a Protestant and not be a heretic based on 1140 01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:32.039 certain things you believe? Or do you have to be 1141 01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:36.560 part of a unbroken of the original Church. 1142 01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:41.560 Protestantism is a public confession of a specific body of 1143 01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:44.960 teachings in terms of classical Protestantism, like the Five Solos. 1144 01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:47.720 So the five solo is constant to what it means 1145 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:53.399 to be a Protestant historically classically. So if you confess that, 1146 01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:58.880 that is immediately at odds with multiple teachings of the 1147 01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.439 Orthodox Church, the Early Church, the Ecumenical Councils, the Icing Creed, 1148 01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:05.439 et cetera. So to reject the Nicing Creed is to 1149 01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:11.479 place oneself outside the bounds of classical historic Christianity. So, yes, 1150 01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:15.279 Protestantism has a confession is heterodox, But that doesn't mean 1151 01:14:15.319 --> 01:14:17.720 that I'm judging every single individual Protestant thing. You're going 1152 01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:21.760 to Hell, You're damned. I don't know people's destinies, and 1153 01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:24.079 we're not told to people's destinies. God is the ultimate 1154 01:14:24.199 --> 01:14:27.079 judge of that. But we have the duty to tell 1155 01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:29.640 people that you do have to come into the Orthodox Church. 1156 01:14:29.720 --> 01:14:32.199 Because Paul says there's one Lord, one faith, one body, 1157 01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:32.880 one baptism. 1158 01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:41.239 Okay, that does make sense now, So it seems like 1159 01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:45.439 in the Orthodox Church they sort of promote like you're 1160 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.840 not individually learning the scriptures by reading it on your own, 1161 01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:49.880 you're coming up through. 1162 01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:51.720 The church. 1163 01:14:51.800 --> 01:14:54.359 And so I guess that's well, an individual can read. 1164 01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:57.680 The scriptures and learn, but an individual also can misinterpret 1165 01:14:57.720 --> 01:14:59.840 the scriptures and come to all kinds of crazy conclusions. 1166 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:02.119 So it's not that you can't do it, it's just 1167 01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:03.960 that it has to be done in the context of 1168 01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:06.159 the mind of the church, which is the mind of Christ. 1169 01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:14.560 Okay, right, And coming up through the Orthodox Church, is 1170 01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:17.000 that how it's taught pretty much just knowing the context 1171 01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:20.079 or the history of the book, who it was written to, 1172 01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:21.920 and what time period. 1173 01:15:22.239 --> 01:15:26.479 Well, actually, no, I would say, I mean all those 1174 01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:30.479 things matter. They're definitely part of Exegesus. But for us, 1175 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:33.039 the Bible is a liturgical document, which means that it's 1176 01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:36.399 meant to be heard throughout the year in the readings 1177 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:38.560 in the church of the liturgical cycle. And that's because 1178 01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:44.119 just like Judaism, Christianity inherited the Temple Synagogue system of 1179 01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:48.880 daily readings electionaries, et ceterup and liturgical worship. So the 1180 01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:52.600 real setting in context and milieu is within the liturgy. 1181 01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:55.760 But that doesn't mean that an individual can't read the Bible. 1182 01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:59.319 It's just not the main sort of setting for the Bible. 1183 01:15:59.439 --> 01:16:11.560 But good questions. I appreciate that truth matters, gonna unmute 1184 01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:12.199 truth matters. 1185 01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:15.520 Hey, Jay, how are you doing? 1186 01:16:15.760 --> 01:16:16.319 Good? What's up? 1187 01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:21.720 I had a specific question I had asked you before, 1188 01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:26.159 but you didn't respond, actually blocked me. Good faith question 1189 01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:30.439 on what your view on why full pretterism is not 1190 01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:37.000 found biblically and I'm not using the creeds, not referring 1191 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:38.560 to church history just from scripture. 1192 01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:40.680 Why, well, there's no such thing as just referring to 1193 01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:47.640 the scriptures because you don't have the scriptures. First of all, explain, well, 1194 01:16:47.680 --> 01:16:49.680 you don't have the right Bible, So why would we 1195 01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.319 listen to you about the interpretation of the book when 1196 01:16:52.399 --> 01:16:53.920 it's not your book and you don't have the right 1197 01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:54.600 list of books. 1198 01:16:57.000 --> 01:17:01.600 I mean, I'm not I'm not denig rating the role 1199 01:17:01.760 --> 01:17:04.239 that the Church fathers did. I'm just saying specific, but the. 1200 01:17:04.279 --> 01:17:06.880 Church fathers determine what books go in the Bible, So 1201 01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:09.439 how can you when that's prior to the Bible. How 1202 01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:11.960 can you toss that out as secondary when it's prior 1203 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:12.520 to the Bible. 1204 01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:17.359 Well, I mean people can be infallible, just as you know, 1205 01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:20.399 the Apostle has gotten arguments themselves and they didn't agree. 1206 01:17:21.159 --> 01:17:25.199 And so specifically, I think I saw you mentioned on 1207 01:17:25.359 --> 01:17:28.279 YouTube that, for instance, the events of seventy eight AD 1208 01:17:28.439 --> 01:17:32.359 were a type and shadow of the destruction of the world, 1209 01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:34.880 which I don't see that in scripture. 1210 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:36.199 I don't see where it mentioned. 1211 01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:38.479 But it doesn't matter what you think is or is 1212 01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:40.880 an a scripture because you don't have the right paradigm 1213 01:17:41.039 --> 01:17:43.760 or the right scriptures. Again for the second. 1214 01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:49.680 Time, even using that, even using the scriptures that the 1215 01:17:50.840 --> 01:17:53.520 Church fathers and all of the Orthodox people, which I 1216 01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:56.439 have no problem with the Orthodox Church, it's specifically aschatology 1217 01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:57.199 I've never heard or. 1218 01:17:57.239 --> 01:17:58.960 We do have a problem with the Orthodox Church because 1219 01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:01.000 if you don't believe in the Second Advent, in the 1220 01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:06.800 bodily resurrection as a universal cosmological event, you're heterodox and 1221 01:18:06.840 --> 01:18:09.199 you're not in the Church. You're not even a basic Christian. 1222 01:18:10.439 --> 01:18:12.840 Not necessarily because necessarily, because the. 1223 01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:15.239 Church teaches that you have to believe in the Second 1224 01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.239 Advent of Christ, the bodily resurrection. 1225 01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:18.039 I understand that. 1226 01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:20.199 So you don't believe in the body resurrection. 1227 01:18:22.000 --> 01:18:26.319 I believe that the resurrection from hades A hadan resi resurrection. 1228 01:18:26.439 --> 01:18:28.960 Stop redefining the terms in the sense of what the 1229 01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:32.079 Niceno Constantapolitan Creed says. You don't believe that. Therefore you're 1230 01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:35.279 not within the bounds of historic Christianity. You're not a Christian. 1231 01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:38.119 I know that it's not in the bound. 1232 01:18:38.560 --> 01:18:41.039 Thank you. So you're having and you're not in the 1233 01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:43.520 church exactly, But you have to. 1234 01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:46.640 Understand what I'm saying. The Nicean Creed takes its statements 1235 01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:49.159 from Matthew twenty four and any partial preterist. 1236 01:18:55.119 --> 01:19:02.840 All right, enough of that, human I'm you. These people 1237 01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:06.159 are idiots. I mean, Paul, it's like you cannot deny 1238 01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:08.960 the Bali resurrection and call yourself a Christian. And Paul 1239 01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:12.359 says very clear a today that all humanity will be 1240 01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:15.880 resurrected in one Christia is fifteen on the pattern of 1241 01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:19.680 the extent of Adams Sin. This is why all the 1242 01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:22.680 wicked are also resurrected. And so that's not even we're 1243 01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:25.600 talking to these people because they're literally Manicheans. They actually 1244 01:19:25.640 --> 01:19:31.760 think that history, evil, et cetera, continues on for all eternity. 1245 01:19:32.079 --> 01:19:34.680 They actually think that the Second Coming and the Resurrection 1246 01:19:34.760 --> 01:19:39.600 have already happened. They're literal gnostic Manichean heretics. And you 1247 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:42.119 heard him admit it too. He doesn't believe the creed 1248 01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:49.279 human emulator. Hey, Jay, can you hear me? Awesome? 1249 01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:50.840 Thank you so much for doing these. 1250 01:19:51.319 --> 01:19:53.239 It actually is very helpful. I just found your. 1251 01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:57.319 Channel from this guy who's Catholic, I think, but he's 1252 01:19:57.319 --> 01:19:59.560 thinking about the very orthodoxy, and so I've only gotten 1253 01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:02.199 a to watch a couple of year debates. But I 1254 01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:06.000 was wondering, what are the best arguments you hear specifically 1255 01:20:06.039 --> 01:20:08.399 from atheists, because I used to be an atheist until 1256 01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:14.520 I converted that like are logically coherent both against like 1257 01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:18.600 classical theism, then to Christianity than to Orthodoxy. Specifically, if 1258 01:20:18.640 --> 01:20:20.119 you could go through those or if that's too. 1259 01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:24.520 Bad the top for evangelicals, dispensationalists in times, Catholic Protestants, 1260 01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:27.119 so not be need to be rude is not the 1261 01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:38.800 topics today, totally, Dallas, what's up? Got one? Hey? Jay? 1262 01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:39.359 How's it going? 1263 01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:41.399 Yeah? What's up? 1264 01:20:42.960 --> 01:20:43.159 Yeah? 1265 01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:46.279 I was just wondering if the Orthodox Church or the 1266 01:20:46.359 --> 01:20:49.680 Fathers actually taught like how the conversion of the Jews 1267 01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:52.800 has played out, because I know a dispensationalists believe about it. 1268 01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:55.279 But I don't know. There's no specifics. We don't know 1269 01:20:55.359 --> 01:21:19.680 exactly how it happens. All right, question Ultra Violet? Are 1270 01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:19.960 you there? 1271 01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:22.119 Hello? 1272 01:21:22.640 --> 01:21:22.840 Hey? 1273 01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:30.760 Okay, So I had a question about Zachariah fourteeneen sixteen? 1274 01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:33.760 Is that talking about a physical reign of price on 1275 01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:34.359 earth and. 1276 01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:42.680 Orbout that it's a present reality in the church? 1277 01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:47.279 Okay, Okay. 1278 01:21:49.159 --> 01:21:53.920 The nation's having to go towards Israel to celebrate Israel 1279 01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:55.279 is the escalations. 1280 01:21:56.600 --> 01:22:02.800 The celebration is the liturgy. What does Act sixteen say, sixteen? 1281 01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:06.760 What does Act sixteen say is the tabernacle. 1282 01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:12.359 Church? 1283 01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:13.000 Are you there? 1284 01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:16.199 Oh? 1285 01:22:16.399 --> 01:22:20.520 So there you go? So yeah, the Tabernacle of David 1286 01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:23.479 that has rebuilt is the church according to Acts sixteen. 1287 01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:27.640 So Zachariah is fulfilled in the church. 1288 01:22:31.640 --> 01:22:32.239 Okay, thank you. 1289 01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:34.760 The meal that everyone's eating is the liturgy. 1290 01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:46.840 Graham, Hey, j can you hear me? 1291 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:53.439 I was just listening in and hearing you argue with 1292 01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:58.000 that other evangelical I grew up evangelical man a night, 1293 01:22:58.039 --> 01:22:58.560 and I'm. 1294 01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:01.000 In the coming line going to be starting to go 1295 01:23:01.079 --> 01:23:06.600 to an Orthodox perish with my wife done. 1296 01:23:06.880 --> 01:23:10.159 But mostly from listening to your stuff and your debates 1297 01:23:10.199 --> 01:23:12.479 and stuff, we're kind of that tipping point. 1298 01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:16.039 Anyway. One of the things I was going to say 1299 01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:21.640 and suggest when arguing with Protestants and evangelicals, unless you 1300 01:23:21.680 --> 01:23:25.560 can get them to admit to some sort of relevance 1301 01:23:25.600 --> 01:23:29.520 of church history and like drawing. 1302 01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:33.159 Ideas of how to interpret the Bible from early church 1303 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.960 fathers and stuff, it's really no point in arguing from 1304 01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:37.239 a biblical basis. 1305 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:40.880 Because that's why, because they're just they're never going to change. 1306 01:23:40.920 --> 01:23:43.079 They're just going to disagree and say, well, that's not 1307 01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:43.560 my inter. 1308 01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:45.920 And they're going to throw a bunch of other verses 1309 01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:47.479 that contradict whatever you're saying. 1310 01:23:47.680 --> 01:23:52.159 So yeah, exactly, it's just like a big quote mining 1311 01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:54.840 game basically, and whoever has the most verses. 1312 01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:57.439 Yeah, that's why the whole purpose of undercutting at all 1313 01:23:57.640 --> 01:24:01.039 with the Canada Scripture shows that the Church is prior 1314 01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:05.239 to your interpretation of scriptures. The Church determine what goes 1315 01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:05.720 in the book. 1316 01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:11.840 Well, and that's why none of these spam Protestant SOLA 1317 01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:15.720 scripture accounts like these goofy people like autocorrect or Sola 1318 01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:19.560 Chad will ever join VC or have a Twitter Space 1319 01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:23.520 debate because they know that if we don't allow them 1320 01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:27.159 to just spam random Bible versus that they can go nowhere. 1321 01:24:27.399 --> 01:24:30.720 Yeah. Also a lot of these accounts are fake grifter accounts, 1322 01:24:30.800 --> 01:24:33.800 like that woman from a few weeks ago, that Patriarchy 1323 01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:37.520 woman that looks to be a fraud account. So there's 1324 01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:40.000 no telling how many of these evangelical accounts are also 1325 01:24:40.159 --> 01:24:46.039 probably grifters or fake ass dumb rappers. 1326 01:24:47.520 --> 01:24:49.560 Yeah, there's no telling how many of them are mine, 1327 01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:52.560 And so people shouldn't dig into it or ask any questions. 1328 01:24:52.600 --> 01:24:53.520 We should change the topic. 1329 01:24:55.479 --> 01:25:01.399 They're all chases socc accounts. David, Yeah, what's up, guys, 1330 01:25:01.439 --> 01:25:03.600 what's uh? First? Yeah, I just want to say I 1331 01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:05.199 appreciate all the work you do. 1332 01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:08.800 You really helped me get out of prostantism, which is great. 1333 01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:09.159 Cool. 1334 01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:13.520 Yeah, And I actually did you know it's funny that 1335 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:15.840 you guys were just talking about that, you know, just 1336 01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:17.079 the machine gunning that. 1337 01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:19.000 They do a Bible verses where they're like, well look 1338 01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:19.680 at this, look at this. 1339 01:25:20.119 --> 01:25:21.399 It's actually just dealing with that. 1340 01:25:22.439 --> 01:25:24.760 Have a reform buddy, and it's like it feels like 1341 01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:26.640 you're just kind of talking to a wall at that point. 1342 01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:28.880 Yeah, because it's like no matter how many Bible. 1343 01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:31.800 Verses one quote, it's like, well look at this Bible verse, 1344 01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:32.600 this refutes you. 1345 01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:34.600 And then they just like spit out like another two 1346 01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:34.960 or three. 1347 01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:36.560 Then it's like there's no point. 1348 01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:38.600 Just like the last guy say, it's like once you 1349 01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:41.800 go back to like the presuppositions and like, okay, well 1350 01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:43.439 how did the early fathers interpret this? 1351 01:25:43.640 --> 01:25:44.560 Like how did they read that? 1352 01:25:44.960 --> 01:25:47.880 Then it's like it completely refutes them, and they're like, 1353 01:25:48.399 --> 01:25:50.359 well it doesn't really make sense to but on what 1354 01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:52.399 This has nothing to do with the question I had 1355 01:25:53.680 --> 01:25:56.960 as far as like penal substitution is there? 1356 01:25:57.199 --> 01:25:59.600 Do they have any good argument for that? Because it 1357 01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:01.359 seems like when you kind of point out the error 1358 01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:05.600 in the penal substitutionary toment, there's like no wiggle room there. 1359 01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:07.079 Do they have like a good argument for that. 1360 01:26:08.359 --> 01:26:11.640 It's just what they read into. By the way, earlier 1361 01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:15.039 I said Acts sixteen, I meant to say Acts fifteen sixteen, 1362 01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:18.520 where Peter says, after this, I will return and rebuild 1363 01:26:18.640 --> 01:26:21.520 the fallen tent or Tabernacle of David. I will rebuild 1364 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:25.880 its ruins and restore it, which Peter interprets as the 1365 01:26:25.960 --> 01:26:28.720 resurrection of Christ's body and the Church. So it's not 1366 01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:34.159 a prophecy necessarily of the nation state of Israel. Two 1367 01:26:34.239 --> 01:26:41.319 thousand years later, I was saying Acts sixteen earlier, and 1368 01:26:41.479 --> 01:26:44.800 it's Acts fifteen, verse sixteen. That's why I wanted to 1369 01:26:44.840 --> 01:26:47.039 stress that in case somebody's listening and heard me say 1370 01:26:47.079 --> 01:26:51.239 that about the Tabernacle of David. Anyway, Also, remember that 1371 01:26:52.159 --> 01:26:55.520 throughout the New Testament the word, when we see word, 1372 01:26:56.239 --> 01:27:00.479 Protestants assume that it's referring to written texts, and Peter 1373 01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:04.880 and Paul identify their preaching and oral teaching with quote 1374 01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:09.560 the word. Also, the Word is a divine person and 1375 01:27:09.680 --> 01:27:13.159 not a book in John one, so they're just equivocating 1376 01:27:13.319 --> 01:27:19.439 and collapsing word into written texts every time. And it's 1377 01:27:19.560 --> 01:27:23.520 not written text every time. Sometimes it is a written text. Yes, 1378 01:27:23.600 --> 01:27:25.680 you can call the Bible the Word of God, but 1379 01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:28.279 also the second person, the Godhead, is the Word of God. 1380 01:27:28.359 --> 01:27:30.880 And Jesus says, you search the scriptures because you think 1381 01:27:30.920 --> 01:27:32.439 that it is in them that you have internal life. 1382 01:27:32.800 --> 01:27:34.880 When is they the bear witness of me? The very 1383 01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:39.760 verse that Jesus rebukes the Pharisees with rebukes all Protestant 1384 01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:43.399 sol scripture of proponents as well. And also remember when 1385 01:27:43.439 --> 01:27:47.159 Peter says that he preached the word of God, Paul 1386 01:27:47.239 --> 01:27:50.800 says he preached the word of God. That's oral teaching 1387 01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:53.439 in acts. I think it's twenty Paul says he taught 1388 01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:56.840 for three years, day and night in Ephesus to catechize 1389 01:27:56.920 --> 01:27:59.640 Timothy in the church at Ephesus. And how much do 1390 01:27:59.720 --> 01:28:01.800 we have have a Paul to Ephesis. We have three 1391 01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:04.840 letters to to Timothy and one to the Church of Ephesus. 1392 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:09.119 So did he just recite the scriptures for three years? 1393 01:28:09.159 --> 01:28:10.880 This is what Protestants think. It's so silly. It is 1394 01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:13.079 if you go watch the debate that I did with 1395 01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:17.960 me and doctor Branson versus Dale, the Protestant. I'm not 1396 01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:20.560 trying to say it's like the best Sole scripture debate, 1397 01:28:20.600 --> 01:28:23.880 but the reason it's so good is that doctor Branson 1398 01:28:24.159 --> 01:28:29.439 knows a lot about Jewish history, and he actually demonstrates 1399 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:33.000 that although Protestants think they're following quote Jews or the 1400 01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:37.960 traditional quote Hebrew idea, when they're solar scripturists. Jews and 1401 01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:41.680 Hebrews were not solar scriptura proponents. They believed in tradition 1402 01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:47.079 as well, and they believed in a synodal rabbinical approach 1403 01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:51.199 to interpreting and judging from the law, which is not Protestant. 1404 01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:56.720 So Protestants are completely ahistorical, even when they try to 1405 01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:01.000 think that they're just following the Jewish model of solar scripture, 1406 01:29:01.079 --> 01:29:12.560 when Jews weren't soul scripture. David, he dropped off, Yo, 1407 01:29:22.640 --> 01:29:24.680 what's up? Hey? 1408 01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:27.960 Yeah, I just had a quick question, can you. 1409 01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:33.399 So you know how Muslims they have the little dollar 1410 01:29:33.439 --> 01:29:36.920 script and I noticed a lot of Muslims like to 1411 01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:40.479 run to John twenty seventeen, Right, my God and your God. 1412 01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:47.720 Does the Orthodox believe that Jesus had a God before 1413 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:50.479 he incarnated or that's only when he became human? 1414 01:29:51.760 --> 01:29:54.840 The Trinity existed from all eternity. Jesus is the second 1415 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:57.600 person of the Trinity, as John one says, and the 1416 01:29:57.760 --> 01:30:00.079 God that he's referring to is God the Father. And 1417 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:04.399 that's why the Orthodox Church teaches monarchical trinitarianism, which identifies 1418 01:30:04.920 --> 01:30:07.319 the God or the one God, with the person of 1419 01:30:07.399 --> 01:30:07.760 the Father. 1420 01:30:10.079 --> 01:30:12.640 Okay, so it's not actually like his God. 1421 01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:15.319 It's referring to the person, just like God picks out 1422 01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:17.439 certain things, right, it's not just one thing. 1423 01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:21.800 Well now, literally, God the Father is God, Jesus is God, 1424 01:30:22.800 --> 01:30:24.359 his divine Father. 1425 01:30:26.079 --> 01:30:28.880 Okay, but before he incarnated that was not. 1426 01:30:29.159 --> 01:30:31.600 No, it was always the case. He's the eternal son, 1427 01:30:31.720 --> 01:30:34.840 as John One says, eternally begotten of the Father. 1428 01:30:36.680 --> 01:30:40.439 Okay, so like in the Old Testament. Well, I guess 1429 01:30:40.520 --> 01:30:42.479 it wouldn't have to say it in the Old Testament. 1430 01:30:42.520 --> 01:30:44.199 That's just the Church's teaching, right. 1431 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:46.880 No, it says it all throughout the Old Testament that 1432 01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:51.079 the Angel of the Lord that appears in dozens and 1433 01:30:51.159 --> 01:30:53.319 dozens of they often is the person of Christ. 1434 01:30:54.640 --> 01:30:56.600 No, No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about. 1435 01:30:57.439 --> 01:31:00.640 I'm talking about God the Father being Jesus God. 1436 01:31:00.760 --> 01:31:03.520 Right, saying that the Old Testament demonstrates that with the 1437 01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:05.760 person of the Angel of the Lord, that is Jesus. 1438 01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:08.439 So Jesus did not begin to be a son at 1439 01:31:08.479 --> 01:31:11.960 his incarnation. He was always the son of the Father 1440 01:31:12.159 --> 01:31:15.439 into all eternity. And that's why John one is saying 1441 01:31:15.560 --> 01:31:19.439 that he's the eternally begotten of the Father. The Father 1442 01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:21.000 is the source of Jesus. 1443 01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:27.960 Well no, okay, so I think it's like so, I 1444 01:31:28.039 --> 01:31:30.680 think it's like a miscommunication. So I do affirm that 1445 01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:33.279 Jesus has always been the son of God. I'm not 1446 01:31:33.359 --> 01:31:36.720 William Lane Craig who believes he just became the No. Right, 1447 01:31:37.840 --> 01:31:43.119 what I'm saying is and maybe like I'm just not understanding. 1448 01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:47.079 But what I'm saying is God the Father was Jesus 1449 01:31:47.199 --> 01:31:51.000 God in the Old Testament as well before he incarnated. 1450 01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:53.600 Like Jesus is the Angel of the Lord that's appearing 1451 01:31:53.680 --> 01:31:56.279 in all of the Theophanes throughout the Old Testament at 1452 01:31:56.319 --> 01:31:59.520 a five hour talk throughout all of these references. 1453 01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:03.800 Okay, So okay, under understood, understood, So like go. 1454 01:32:03.960 --> 01:32:06.319 Check out my talks on the Theophanes in the Torah 1455 01:32:06.439 --> 01:32:07.479 and the Old Testament. 1456 01:32:08.239 --> 01:32:10.000 Okay, thank you, thank you very much. 1457 01:32:10.159 --> 01:32:12.439 That's a good question. Yeah, exactly. And I also did 1458 01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:16.479 ah my response video to Trent Horn which is on YouTube. 1459 01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:20.680 I will reshare that is a lecture also on this 1460 01:32:20.880 --> 01:32:39.960 topic on the Trinity and the Old Testament. Where is 1461 01:32:40.039 --> 01:32:57.600 that video? Okay, here it is. I'm going to reshare 1462 01:32:57.640 --> 01:33:03.399 this on the top of my timeline. David do you 1463 01:33:03.399 --> 01:33:10.760 want to come back? Yeah, what's up? I actually had 1464 01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:13.960 one more question, trying to stay muted so I could. 1465 01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:17.800 Avoid you know, background noise and stuff, but yeah, I 1466 01:33:17.800 --> 01:33:19.439 wanted to actually ask, because. 1467 01:33:21.119 --> 01:33:22.439 You know, I really appreciate your I. 1468 01:33:22.479 --> 01:33:23.479 Think I can't remember. 1469 01:33:23.640 --> 01:33:26.720 You advised like a while back to start from the 1470 01:33:26.760 --> 01:33:30.119 bottom with like reading Affavacious and the cap of Docians 1471 01:33:30.159 --> 01:33:32.359 and all them. And I actually took that advice because 1472 01:33:32.399 --> 01:33:34.319 when I first started reading, I tried to jump into 1473 01:33:34.399 --> 01:33:38.520 like John Damascus and like Palamas, and that's kind of. 1474 01:33:38.560 --> 01:33:40.359 Way too difficult. You need to read like the Post. 1475 01:33:40.439 --> 01:33:42.520 You need to read the post Apasaulic Fathers and then 1476 01:33:42.760 --> 01:33:45.079 and then what you're talking about exactly. 1477 01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:47.600 Yeah, So I started from the bottom, and man, that 1478 01:33:47.880 --> 01:33:51.960 was so helpful for me. But when I started reading 1479 01:33:52.039 --> 01:33:55.000 Basil all of his letters and his homilies and stuff, 1480 01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:59.640 and I guess I started to wonder and like question, 1481 01:33:59.800 --> 01:34:02.359 like great, because I know that Roman Catholics affirmed the 1482 01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:04.079 Council of Constantinople. 1483 01:34:04.600 --> 01:34:06.920 Do they just not care about like what Basil teaches 1484 01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:07.520 or Gregory? 1485 01:34:08.359 --> 01:34:14.079 No, So, like I know that they hold Santa Augustine 1486 01:34:14.079 --> 01:34:15.880 in like pretty high regards, So why do they just 1487 01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:21.159 choose Santa Augustine over like the Council of the Constantinople. 1488 01:34:21.479 --> 01:34:24.960 Because of the popularity of Augustine in the West, and 1489 01:34:25.159 --> 01:34:29.880 then the rise and popularity of and Selmon Aquinas, and 1490 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:33.960 so the three A's dominate the West. And I would 1491 01:34:34.199 --> 01:34:37.640 venture that most Roman Catholics just never bothered to read 1492 01:34:37.760 --> 01:34:41.279 the Cappadocians, don't care, and if they do, it's just 1493 01:34:41.359 --> 01:34:44.439 a quote mind to try to find their position the irony. 1494 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:45.960 And by the way, they do the same thing with 1495 01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:50.760 the ecumenical councils, where they don't care what the chief 1496 01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:54.199 theologians and fathers of the councils taught. They had this 1497 01:34:54.680 --> 01:34:59.239 ridiculous legalistic view that they only cite what the Pope affirms, 1498 01:34:59.239 --> 01:35:02.800 and the councils do documents, and they literally don't care 1499 01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:06.000 what any of the theologians or any of the writings were, 1500 01:35:06.640 --> 01:35:09.159 so so you can cite them. Even Get this, here's 1501 01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:11.479 a funny thing. Constant the noble one actually says, there's 1502 01:35:11.479 --> 01:35:14.479 an imperial decree that says you have to follow Saint 1503 01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:18.319 Gregor of Nissa in his theology. Roman catholch said, we 1504 01:35:18.359 --> 01:35:21.760 don't care. All we care about is the actual definitions 1505 01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:24.760 of the Council, not what any of the Church fathers teach. 1506 01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:27.439 Now they'll say, well, we like the Church fathers, but 1507 01:35:28.239 --> 01:35:31.439 who cares about Father being sole cause we don't believe that. 1508 01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:34.239 Where I was actually I remember you saying that once. 1509 01:35:34.479 --> 01:35:37.039 Where can you actually find that in the in the 1510 01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:39.880 the Council? Is it like in the I know it's 1511 01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:41.880 not in the canons right where they say that, Is 1512 01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:42.840 it like one of the letters? 1513 01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:45.600 No, So doctor Branson talks about it where he translated 1514 01:35:45.640 --> 01:35:48.319 it from, probably from some of the Cappadocian writings that 1515 01:35:48.479 --> 01:35:50.520 probably refer to it, or there actually might it might 1516 01:35:50.600 --> 01:35:54.640 be in the Price for the Richard Price's recent translations 1517 01:35:54.680 --> 01:35:58.800 of the Acts of the councils Oh, interesting, okay. 1518 01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:01.159 And then the other thing I didn't want to ask 1519 01:36:01.159 --> 01:36:04.880 because I remember you saying a while back. I think 1520 01:36:04.920 --> 01:36:06.880 you were saying that, like you know, Thomas are just 1521 01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:08.920 larking like they're still in the Middle Ages, that the 1522 01:36:09.039 --> 01:36:10.239 Vatican is basically. 1523 01:36:10.079 --> 01:36:12.520 Yeah, Rome doesn't care about Tomism at all. Yeah, what, okay? 1524 01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:14.960 So what I'm not I'm not Roman Catholic or anything, 1525 01:36:15.039 --> 01:36:17.920 but I guess what kind of what from the Vatican 1526 01:36:18.239 --> 01:36:19.680 has led you to that conclusion. 1527 01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:27.800 Well, for example, you have the encyclical by Leo the 1528 01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:41.279 thirteenth that, uh, Thomism is Hold on one second, Hold 1529 01:36:41.319 --> 01:36:43.399 on one second. I'm gonna i gotta write a check 1530 01:36:43.479 --> 01:37:32.159 for a bill, and I'll be right back. Okay, Okay, 1531 01:37:32.159 --> 01:37:39.439 I'm back. So Attorney Patras uh not posture attornis. People 1532 01:37:39.520 --> 01:37:43.760 get these confused. Attorney Patras is the encyclical Leo the 1533 01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:48.840 thirteenth very famous declaring that Tomism is the official philosophy 1534 01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:52.319 of the Roman Catholic Church. But at the time of 1535 01:37:52.600 --> 01:37:57.000 Vatican Two, you had what's called the New theology. You 1536 01:37:57.079 --> 01:37:58.720 had the rise of all these different trends in the 1537 01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:02.640 Roman Catholic Church. Had a reaction against that from people 1538 01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:05.840 like Hans Ros von Baltazar, who wanted to bring Eastern 1539 01:38:05.960 --> 01:38:09.359 Orthodox theology into the Council, Eastern Fathers theology of the Council. 1540 01:38:09.800 --> 01:38:11.039 By the way, I'm not saying he's a good guy. 1541 01:38:11.039 --> 01:38:13.520 I'm just saying that that's what happened. You had a 1542 01:38:13.560 --> 01:38:16.239 lot of Protestant influence on the Second Vatican Council. Many 1543 01:38:16.239 --> 01:38:20.199 of the many Kreiti theological advisors that were super liberal 1544 01:38:20.239 --> 01:38:24.520 and opposed Totomism, the Jesuits had a huge hand in 1545 01:38:24.680 --> 01:38:28.399 Vatican Two, and actually we're successful in getting several of 1546 01:38:28.479 --> 01:38:33.439 the controversial Vatican two documents through, and even some of 1547 01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:37.359 the modern Tomas like Jacques Martain and these other figures 1548 01:38:37.399 --> 01:38:41.760 who are also very very liberal. You have Hans Kum, 1549 01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:44.359 you have Skillebacks, you have like all of these radical 1550 01:38:44.680 --> 01:38:48.319 Roman Catholic theologians for the most part rejecting and reacting 1551 01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:53.479 to classical scholastic Tomism. And that pretty much won the day. 1552 01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:57.560 And that's why Vatican Two just really opens up the 1553 01:38:57.640 --> 01:39:02.000 floodgates for anything. And so if you go to most 1554 01:39:02.079 --> 01:39:04.479 of the Roman Catholic seminaries and places like that, like 1555 01:39:04.520 --> 01:39:07.239 you're gonna you will find some some sort of quote 1556 01:39:07.239 --> 01:39:10.840 classical Thomas, like Tim Gordon, you know, he's a big 1557 01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:13.399 pusher for classical Tomism. But they're in the minority now 1558 01:39:13.439 --> 01:39:15.279 in the Roman Kelly Church. So the point was not that, 1559 01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:18.439 The point was just that the trend has really just 1560 01:39:19.079 --> 01:39:21.960 they don't care about classical Tomism anymore. It's it's very 1561 01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:25.439 much in the minority. Interesting, Okay, but yeah, I appreciate that. 1562 01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:27.279 I'll probably have to go re listen to this just 1563 01:39:27.359 --> 01:39:29.239 to kind of like, jot all that down because that's 1564 01:39:29.239 --> 01:39:31.039 a lot. That's a lot that you just mentioned there. 1565 01:39:31.399 --> 01:39:35.560 But yeah, I also the other book that I definitely 1566 01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:37.680 would recommend anybody out there to go read is that 1567 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:42.560 that Pelican series. Honestly, that volume one after reading that 1568 01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:46.119 is completely convinced me of orthodoxy. 1569 01:39:46.199 --> 01:39:46.600 Honestly. 1570 01:39:48.800 --> 01:39:51.039 Yeah, I mean look again, like it's not I mean, 1571 01:39:51.079 --> 01:39:52.720 it sounds like a lot of names and it's difficult, 1572 01:39:52.760 --> 01:39:54.960 but it's actually not. It's not and it's not even controversial, 1573 01:39:55.119 --> 01:39:59.680 like most most of the cellar stars of Vatican two 1574 01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:02.039 in the Roman Catholic Church, and the theologians about it 1575 01:40:02.079 --> 01:40:04.680 can too, like it's it's all people who are not 1576 01:40:04.760 --> 01:40:07.079 really interested in classical tones anymore. And then that's not 1577 01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:10.760 even controversial. That's why they're in the minority, people like 1578 01:40:11.680 --> 01:40:17.760 uh Tim Gordon or whoever. Yeah, dude, look most of 1579 01:40:17.840 --> 01:40:21.399 these seminaries they're just like gay bathhouses. Man, they don't 1580 01:40:21.399 --> 01:40:24.000 care about theology. I mean, I'm being serious, Like it's 1581 01:40:24.039 --> 01:40:25.640 not a it's not a place where you go to 1582 01:40:25.680 --> 01:40:28.640 study some theologists where you go to have gay butt secks. 1583 01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:31.840 And honestly, like the majority of Roman Catholics that I 1584 01:40:32.079 --> 01:40:34.439 even come across in like my normal everyday life. 1585 01:40:34.560 --> 01:40:36.239 They don't even know about Tomism. 1586 01:40:36.359 --> 01:40:37.880 They're just like they just go to church. 1587 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:40.800 No, they don't care. So that that's why it's Larper's 1588 01:40:40.840 --> 01:40:44.319 online that pretend that they're living in the Middle Ages. Yeah, yeah, 1589 01:40:44.359 --> 01:40:44.560 but I. 1590 01:40:44.560 --> 01:40:47.319 Would Actually I had this pulled up because I thought 1591 01:40:47.319 --> 01:40:49.920 it was really interesting that we're talking about Rome in 1592 01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:54.199 that Pelicon book. He's where he's talking about Apostolic continuity. 1593 01:40:55.319 --> 01:40:58.560 He's making he's talking about i as Here he says 1594 01:40:58.640 --> 01:41:01.680 that irene Is described it as a characteristic of heresy 1595 01:41:02.199 --> 01:41:06.359 that each heretic selected part of the whole Apostolic witness, and, 1596 01:41:06.479 --> 01:41:08.520 after adapting it to his system. 1597 01:41:08.279 --> 01:41:10.960 Elevated its authority above the other apostles. 1598 01:41:11.680 --> 01:41:14.920 I was like, wow, that's a that's pretty interesting there, 1599 01:41:15.640 --> 01:41:17.880 and he was he was actually just talking about Marcia 1600 01:41:17.920 --> 01:41:19.479 on there, but I was like, wow, that's that could 1601 01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:23.399 be applied to our modern age. But yeah, I don't 1602 01:41:23.439 --> 01:41:24.600 want to take too much of your time, and that 1603 01:41:24.680 --> 01:41:25.640 was that was good stuff there. 1604 01:41:25.640 --> 01:41:26.159 I appreciate it. 1605 01:41:26.239 --> 01:41:26.399 Joy. 1606 01:41:27.479 --> 01:41:36.680 So looking through you can just even search like per 1607 01:41:36.760 --> 01:41:41.760 E T pr P E r I T I A 1608 01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:46.119 Vatican two cone gar is a Dominican, which means he's 1609 01:41:46.159 --> 01:41:50.159 a follower of Aquinas and Conegar was popular and famous. 1610 01:41:50.359 --> 01:41:50.800 But like. 1611 01:41:52.279 --> 01:42:00.680 Uh Dallas is a key Avery Dallas Jesuit. Uh Benedict 1612 01:42:01.199 --> 01:42:03.720 was a partis a Vatican too. He's not a huge 1613 01:42:03.760 --> 01:42:08.239 Thomas Carl Ronner Jesuit on reed the Lubach was a 1614 01:42:08.359 --> 01:42:15.560 Jesuit into Eastern Orthodox theology. Let's see. I mean it's 1615 01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:20.520 just dominated by a lot of Jesuits. It's not that 1616 01:42:20.720 --> 01:42:23.960 it's not like a I mean, it's just well known. 1617 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:28.279 It's it's not they don't care about Tomism anymore. Yeah, 1618 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:38.640 but good questions, Joseph, what's up? 1619 01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:39.640 Jay? 1620 01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:40.560 So I have two questions. 1621 01:42:40.640 --> 01:42:46.079 Have you seen Jack Canhan versus Bill Nye on the Blood? 1622 01:42:49.439 --> 01:42:52.760 I'm not okay, Well he's a Protestant, I'm assuming so 1623 01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:56.079 I would want if you don't mind, rewatch it because 1624 01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:57.479 Bill Night kind of destroyed him. 1625 01:42:57.520 --> 01:42:58.399 But he's a Protestant. 1626 01:42:58.479 --> 01:42:58.800 Obviously. 1627 01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:01.159 I feel like the Orthodox and the apostles of the 1628 01:43:01.239 --> 01:43:03.880 churches would have, you know, be able to debunk to 1629 01:43:03.960 --> 01:43:08.640 Bill nys. But second question is said end times. Yeah, 1630 01:43:08.680 --> 01:43:11.439 I personally think Islam messighes the anti Christ. 1631 01:43:11.479 --> 01:43:12.960 Who do you think you think. 1632 01:43:12.880 --> 01:43:14.720 That's far our bets. 1633 01:43:16.760 --> 01:43:17.119 Islam. 1634 01:43:17.840 --> 01:43:20.119 Yeah, I feel like they're Jesus is the anti Christ. 1635 01:43:20.199 --> 01:43:20.720 You know what I mean? 1636 01:43:23.279 --> 01:43:23.399 Uh? 1637 01:43:24.319 --> 01:43:29.920 Well, I mean they believe in Jesus as a prophet, 1638 01:43:30.600 --> 01:43:36.159 but you mean like his return that that would be Antichrist. 1639 01:43:36.279 --> 01:43:50.640 It could be Luke Hello, Hey, what's up? 1640 01:43:51.640 --> 01:43:51.680 So? 1641 01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:55.359 I was wondering what are your thoughts on like the 1642 01:43:55.760 --> 01:43:59.199 IDF oppression as long as it's on topic. If it's 1643 01:43:59.279 --> 01:44:01.079 not on topic, I have another question about the idea 1644 01:44:01.279 --> 01:44:05.640 of what the IDF in Israel like oppression on Palestinian Christians. 1645 01:44:05.680 --> 01:44:10.119 What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I don't 1646 01:44:10.199 --> 01:44:14.520 agree with the wiping out of the Orthodox population in Palestine, 1647 01:44:15.279 --> 01:44:16.079 that's what you're referring to. 1648 01:44:16.920 --> 01:44:19.520 Yeah, yeah, Because I have a friend whose dad was 1649 01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:22.560 raised in the Soviet Union and then moved to Israel, 1650 01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:26.239 served in the IDF, and he's like a Zionist, and 1651 01:44:26.359 --> 01:44:29.279 I was like thinking, oh, well, Orthodoxy and Zionism isn't 1652 01:44:29.279 --> 01:44:30.039 really compatible. 1653 01:44:31.439 --> 01:44:45.960 No, okay, thank you? Mm hm? Who else anybody else has? 1654 01:44:46.039 --> 01:44:55.399 Sony last questions? All right? Do you hear me? Yeah? 1655 01:44:57.479 --> 01:44:57.960 Quick question? 1656 01:44:58.359 --> 01:45:04.640 Chase still speak speak? Yeah, I mean article cool? So, 1657 01:45:05.079 --> 01:45:06.800 so I might have the dog of memory of a 1658 01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:09.720 little bit. But actually he just brought over so I 1659 01:45:09.840 --> 01:45:13.479 might need to. So I just saw this yesterday, and 1660 01:45:14.439 --> 01:45:18.359 this is the whole Protestant like owner of Twitter or whatever. 1661 01:45:18.399 --> 01:45:20.720 Another look that bothered me all that much. Like I 1662 01:45:20.800 --> 01:45:24.279 watch enough of you to understand, you know, like why 1663 01:45:24.439 --> 01:45:26.479 why is a even if I'm not worth a dogtop 1664 01:45:26.520 --> 01:45:29.119 and the fan? But like you argiment, I agree with him. 1665 01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:31.399 So there was this thing I saw yesterday. 1666 01:45:32.880 --> 01:45:36.560 I don't we're having a hard time hearing you, Hasani. 1667 01:45:36.600 --> 01:45:41.720 It's really breaking up and noisy. Hard to roll with it. 1668 01:45:41.800 --> 01:45:44.000 What's up, hey, Jake, you hear me? 1669 01:45:44.600 --> 01:45:46.359 Uh huh hey. 1670 01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:48.399 I just want to post something to you to think 1671 01:45:48.399 --> 01:45:52.000 about in a question, right, ask evangelicals, I'm annax charismatic. 1672 01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:57.000 When he comes to the paralytic man and he tells 1673 01:45:57.119 --> 01:45:59.479 him be a good cheer. Your sins are forgiving you, 1674 01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:03.279 I'd asked the evangelical what does that mean? How can 1675 01:46:03.359 --> 01:46:06.199 he forgive sins before he went to the cross and 1676 01:46:06.319 --> 01:46:09.199 the debt's paid because in their low here at salvation, 1677 01:46:10.039 --> 01:46:13.279 you know, Jesus paid the price, he took the wrath. 1678 01:46:13.880 --> 01:46:15.880 He did it in my place, and now I just 1679 01:46:15.960 --> 01:46:17.760 have to believe and I'm saved. 1680 01:46:18.520 --> 01:46:23.359 But if he forgave him before the cross, what would 1681 01:46:23.439 --> 01:46:26.960 their answer be to what happened on the cross? And 1682 01:46:27.159 --> 01:46:29.960 you know, for us, Saint Anthonatia says, if it's a 1683 01:46:30.039 --> 01:46:33.640 matter of repentance, that's fine, but repentance won't save you 1684 01:46:33.720 --> 01:46:36.520 from death. But they don't even have a concept of 1685 01:46:36.600 --> 01:46:38.640 being saved from death. It's just I'm good, I die 1686 01:46:38.760 --> 01:46:39.279 go to heaven. 1687 01:46:39.920 --> 01:46:41.880 Yeah, so just maybe something to chew. 1688 01:46:41.840 --> 01:46:45.079 On and maybe a more an easier way for them 1689 01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:47.159 to understand the critique of PSA. 1690 01:46:50.720 --> 01:46:55.159 Yeah, No, it's a fair question. I mean, maybe like 1691 01:46:55.279 --> 01:47:00.520 a Calvinist would say something more sophisticated about how the 1692 01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:03.439 whole Testament people were saved by the same action, it 1693 01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:06.560 just was retroactive, So they might say something like what 1694 01:47:06.680 --> 01:47:08.600 we say. I know that if you'd asked me that 1695 01:47:08.640 --> 01:47:10.279 when I was a Calvinist, I would have said, well, 1696 01:47:10.359 --> 01:47:15.039 the work of Christ on the Cross can apply retroactively 1697 01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:18.279 to people in the Old Testament. So but I mean, 1698 01:47:18.359 --> 01:47:20.000 it is a fair question. I guess if you're a 1699 01:47:20.039 --> 01:47:25.079 sort of a low tier sort of charismatic or Protestant mindset, 1700 01:47:25.199 --> 01:47:26.680 like I think it would be a good question to 1701 01:47:26.760 --> 01:47:30.279 get them thinking, I am dat gatto. What's up? 1702 01:47:33.720 --> 01:47:34.079 You mean? 1703 01:47:34.479 --> 01:47:34.680 Yeah? 1704 01:47:35.840 --> 01:47:36.199 Awesome? 1705 01:47:37.520 --> 01:47:40.119 So I grew up Catholic and you actually kind of 1706 01:47:40.199 --> 01:47:41.479 brought me to Orthodox. 1707 01:47:41.159 --> 01:47:44.920 Because you talked about the news a lot, which kind 1708 01:47:44.960 --> 01:47:47.159 of intrigued me because I've never really heard anything else 1709 01:47:47.199 --> 01:47:47.520 about it. 1710 01:47:47.920 --> 01:47:50.079 It kind of sounds like the piineal gland. 1711 01:47:50.680 --> 01:47:52.359 Do you think you can like clear up a little 1712 01:47:52.399 --> 01:47:54.079 bit from your experience too? 1713 01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:55.600 I heard the. 1714 01:47:57.680 --> 01:48:01.119 View grist is like cleanses your new and just like 1715 01:48:01.239 --> 01:48:02.319 that experience. 1716 01:48:03.560 --> 01:48:07.640 Any association with that kind of stuff would be tenuous. 1717 01:48:07.960 --> 01:48:10.239 I mean, I think that the reason we talk about 1718 01:48:10.279 --> 01:48:12.960 the News is that it's more of a Hebrew concept 1719 01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:16.000 from the Old Testament. When you read David talking about 1720 01:48:16.039 --> 01:48:18.800 the heart, and then we would say in the New 1721 01:48:18.880 --> 01:48:21.199 Testament and then the teaching of the fathers is a 1722 01:48:21.279 --> 01:48:27.600 distinction between that and the intellect or diological reasoning, diocrenesis 1723 01:48:27.680 --> 01:48:32.520 and these different Greek terms for logical reasoning, rational soul. 1724 01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:36.239 So the heart is just simply the inner spirit of man. 1725 01:48:36.319 --> 01:48:41.199 Paul talks about trichotomy body, soul, spirit, and that's what 1726 01:48:41.359 --> 01:48:44.640 we mean by the noose. And so for the Orthodox position, 1727 01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:47.800 if you read somebody like HEROTHEUS Blackos like, he talks 1728 01:48:47.800 --> 01:48:50.680 about the news pretty extensively, and the idea is just 1729 01:48:50.680 --> 01:48:54.199 simply that the reasoning of man is out of whack 1730 01:48:54.319 --> 01:48:57.000 too as a result of the fall. So a lot 1731 01:48:57.039 --> 01:48:59.600 of times you'll get Tomas and people like Roman Catholics 1732 01:48:59.680 --> 01:49:02.359 or west During Augustinian type people who think that the 1733 01:49:02.479 --> 01:49:05.000 soul is just really basically the intellect, so man is 1734 01:49:05.079 --> 01:49:07.840 a dichotomy, and they don't have this notion that the 1735 01:49:07.960 --> 01:49:11.600 intellect needs to be healed by submitting to the heart 1736 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.119 or to the nowse. So these are some of the 1737 01:49:14.600 --> 01:49:20.239 ideas behind that theological tradition, and I don't exactly know 1738 01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:23.000 why it's not in the West except just for the 1739 01:49:25.079 --> 01:49:29.720 the rise and the dominance of the Augustinian duality concept 1740 01:49:29.840 --> 01:49:35.960 of man being a body soul composite and soul being 1741 01:49:36.359 --> 01:49:40.399 identical to intellect, and that's pretty much a Quintus's position too, 1742 01:49:40.479 --> 01:49:44.319 So it just kind of became dominant in the West 1743 01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:45.840 through those figures. 1744 01:49:47.680 --> 01:50:00.239 Nihilist again, gone, sorry, there's a delay, and I takes 1745 01:50:00.279 --> 01:50:01.159 a couple of seconds done. 1746 01:50:01.239 --> 01:50:01.520 Mute. 1747 01:50:03.399 --> 01:50:07.199 Hey, So the second question that I wanted to ask, 1748 01:50:08.159 --> 01:50:10.640 and then if I don't wear out your patience, I 1749 01:50:10.760 --> 01:50:14.600 wanted to audition for some dire cores, got some, got 1750 01:50:14.640 --> 01:50:16.680 some good dire cores for you. I don't know what's 1751 01:50:16.680 --> 01:50:21.399 your tolerance level for Shenanigans is right now, but uh. 1752 01:50:22.239 --> 01:50:26.680 The the second question that I had was so I 1753 01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:32.359 was having a debate with Boomer, and he was arguing 1754 01:50:32.800 --> 01:50:39.680 that because in Revelation, where it defines the heavenly Jerusalem 1755 01:50:40.760 --> 01:50:44.119 as you know, a linear bounded space, as it has 1756 01:50:44.680 --> 01:50:49.239 dimensions and a physical description, they were arguing, oh, well, 1757 01:50:49.399 --> 01:50:54.439 there are descriptions of the Tabernacle, and there are descriptions 1758 01:50:54.640 --> 01:50:58.439 of the uh, you know, the Temple of Solomon. As 1759 01:50:58.720 --> 01:51:04.279 linear bounded space is physical objects. Therefore that means that 1760 01:51:04.439 --> 01:51:07.560 there has to be a physical. 1761 01:51:07.439 --> 01:51:10.319 Okay, yeah, but look at what just what did we 1762 01:51:10.520 --> 01:51:14.239 just talk about in terms of Acts fifteen sixteen, when 1763 01:51:14.319 --> 01:51:17.800 Paul ecks on Peter excuse me, Peter explains the fallen 1764 01:51:17.880 --> 01:51:21.880 Tabernacle has been restored, and he identifies it as what 1765 01:51:28.279 --> 01:51:33.439 please continue, Acts fifteen sixteen. He identifies the fallen Tabernacle 1766 01:51:33.520 --> 01:51:35.319 as what that's been restored. 1767 01:51:38.439 --> 01:51:41.000 I assume we would say that the Church by Christ, 1768 01:51:41.199 --> 01:51:41.439 just the. 1769 01:51:41.439 --> 01:51:44.479 Body of Christ and the Church Jesus is the physical 1770 01:51:44.600 --> 01:51:47.239 body was a tabernacle. Remember he says, destroy this temple 1771 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:50.840 and I will raise it in three days. Okay. 1772 01:51:50.920 --> 01:51:53.960 So the argument, the counter to that argument would be 1773 01:51:54.640 --> 01:51:58.039 Christ is the heavenly Jerusalem and his. 1774 01:51:58.199 --> 01:52:00.119 Body, the Church is the head of in jury is 1775 01:52:00.319 --> 01:52:04.199 according to Galatians. For Paul saysn't Galatians four, we are 1776 01:52:04.319 --> 01:52:09.079 all children of our Mother above the heavenly Jerusalem. It's 1777 01:52:09.119 --> 01:52:12.840 a present reality. It's not a literal city that's a 1778 01:52:12.920 --> 01:52:15.199 giant square that's going to fly down out of heaven 1779 01:52:15.239 --> 01:52:20.159 into Israel. That's what Boomer's thinking, like, they actually think 1780 01:52:20.159 --> 01:52:23.199 a giant city is going to like float down and 1781 01:52:23.439 --> 01:52:25.159 land in Palestine. 1782 01:52:26.079 --> 01:52:29.199 Well, I agree with you just said. We're clear guy, 1783 01:52:29.359 --> 01:52:31.600 this is heresy. And I'm trying to refut this. 1784 01:52:33.399 --> 01:52:35.279 I know I'm not making fun of you. I'm making 1785 01:52:35.319 --> 01:52:37.279 fun of the Boomer right. 1786 01:52:37.439 --> 01:52:40.680 Well, and and your response was my response, which is 1787 01:52:41.439 --> 01:52:45.479 the Church is the true Israel, Christ is the heavenly Jerusalem, 1788 01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:46.199 et cetera. 1789 01:52:47.399 --> 01:52:51.279 Specifically, Peter specifically says the tabernacle is the Church and 1790 01:52:51.359 --> 01:52:57.039 Act fifteen sixteen. You see, Oh, I see, so that's that. 1791 01:52:57.560 --> 01:53:00.960 So it doesn't have to be because it's given a 1792 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:07.560 description as a linear, bounded space. There's a spiritual reality, 1793 01:53:07.760 --> 01:53:10.760 but doesn't that entail some sort of physical reality at all? 1794 01:53:11.760 --> 01:53:16.520 Yeah, But the physical reality is the lineaments that are perfect. 1795 01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:20.279 So the perfection of the lineaments and the measurements signifies 1796 01:53:20.319 --> 01:53:23.279 the perfection of the Church and the Holy Spirit in 1797 01:53:23.359 --> 01:53:26.560 dwelling within her and her virtues and qualities. It's not 1798 01:53:27.079 --> 01:53:31.119 about an actual building with you know, I mean the 1799 01:53:31.199 --> 01:53:33.199 New Testament says well, who does Peter say, are the 1800 01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:37.720 foundation stones of the temple the apostles? What does the 1801 01:53:37.760 --> 01:53:40.000 Book of Revelations say, are the foundation stone or the 1802 01:53:40.000 --> 01:53:43.560 new Jerusalem the apostles. It's the same thing. The names 1803 01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.760 of the apostles in the Book of Revelation are on 1804 01:53:45.920 --> 01:53:48.960 the foundation stones of the heavenly Jerusalem, because the heavenly 1805 01:53:49.039 --> 01:53:51.399 Jerusalem is the Church, the city that they built, which 1806 01:53:51.479 --> 01:53:54.960 is a living temple. Paul says, not an actual building 1807 01:53:55.000 --> 01:53:57.159 and not something that flies out of heaven in the 1808 01:53:57.199 --> 01:53:58.439 Boomer imagination. 1809 01:54:01.319 --> 01:54:01.479 Uh. 1810 01:54:02.600 --> 01:54:19.359 Exposing Ye, I'm mute, exposing dispensation. 1811 01:54:19.640 --> 01:54:19.840 Me want. 1812 01:54:19.880 --> 01:54:21.399 I'm sorry. 1813 01:54:21.520 --> 01:54:27.600 I was having problems. So I was raised in these evangelical, Baptist, 1814 01:54:27.800 --> 01:54:32.920 dispensational churches. Me too, and I'm trying to unlearn all 1815 01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:36.399 of this crap that I was indoctrinated with as a child, 1816 01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:41.840 and I don't know should I'm trying to learn, like 1817 01:54:41.880 --> 01:54:45.359 the differences between the Catholic and the Orthodox churches, So 1818 01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:48.800 do both of them confirm covenant theology? 1819 01:54:50.479 --> 01:54:53.760 Well, uh, this gives a little complex because prior to 1820 01:54:53.960 --> 01:54:57.960 Vatican too, the Orthodox and the Catholic position on these 1821 01:54:58.079 --> 01:55:03.239 issues was the same. We believe in the typological fulfillment 1822 01:55:03.439 --> 01:55:06.159 of the nation state of Israel in the Church. Israel 1823 01:55:06.239 --> 01:55:07.800 is a type of the Church, the land is a 1824 01:55:07.880 --> 01:55:09.680 type of the Church, and a type of the world 1825 01:55:09.840 --> 01:55:12.000 in the Church conquering the world through the Gospel. So 1826 01:55:12.079 --> 01:55:16.760 that typological continuity and that covenant fulfillment position is no 1827 01:55:16.880 --> 01:55:21.159 different to classically speaking, between Orthodox and Roman Catholics. However, 1828 01:55:21.840 --> 01:55:26.079 post Vatican two, via documents like nostro atat lumin Gentm 1829 01:55:26.159 --> 01:55:31.039 sixteen ecumenical documents that the Vatican put out some years 1830 01:55:31.119 --> 01:55:33.479 back about the relationship of the Roman Catholic Church to 1831 01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:38.720 the Jews Rat Singer's book, Many Religions, One Covenant, these 1832 01:55:39.239 --> 01:55:43.399 documents have all affirmed, in including the New Roman Catholic Catechism, 1833 01:55:43.800 --> 01:55:48.399 that there is an ongoing, continued relevance to the quote 1834 01:55:48.439 --> 01:55:51.680 Old Covenant for Jews today. So the Roman Catholic Church 1835 01:55:51.800 --> 01:55:54.920 is backtracked and become ambiguous on this question. And that's 1836 01:55:55.319 --> 01:56:01.399 precisely why Benedict, John, Paul the Second and even in 1837 01:56:01.479 --> 01:56:04.800 Francis have all said statements like we shouldn't proselytize Jews. 1838 01:56:05.399 --> 01:56:09.039 So I would argue that those are contradictions from the 1839 01:56:09.119 --> 01:56:13.119 Roman Catholic Church, because, for example, if you read the 1840 01:56:13.199 --> 01:56:17.119 Council of Florence, within Cantate Domino and the other documents 1841 01:56:17.119 --> 01:56:21.039 of Florence, there's explicit statements that's a Roman Catholic documentical council. 1842 01:56:21.600 --> 01:56:23.840 There are explicit statements that there is no sense in 1843 01:56:23.920 --> 01:56:26.720 which any of the Old Testament rights or Covenant is 1844 01:56:26.800 --> 01:56:29.840 to continue on or be considered valid in any way. 1845 01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:35.079 And so the statements that I mentioned from Tate Lamagentium 1846 01:56:36.399 --> 01:56:41.760 and especially the Vatican relation to the relation of the 1847 01:56:41.840 --> 01:56:44.399 Church of the Jews document from like I don't know, 1848 01:56:44.880 --> 01:56:46.439 a few years ago, I forget the exact name of 1849 01:56:46.520 --> 01:56:51.439 that document. Those documents are hugely controversial, and I would 1850 01:56:51.560 --> 01:56:53.439 argue that those are contradictory to Florence. 1851 01:56:55.000 --> 01:56:55.760 Okay, I'll have to. 1852 01:56:56.039 --> 01:56:59.119 Do research into what you've said. I'll probably have to listen. 1853 01:56:58.920 --> 01:56:59.720 Over the recording. 1854 01:57:01.359 --> 01:57:07.359 So, like, what about how does everybody feel about the 1855 01:57:07.399 --> 01:57:10.159 mark of the Beast, Like did they believe it already happened? 1856 01:57:10.359 --> 01:57:15.960 Or so I believe in partial preterism that the references 1857 01:57:16.000 --> 01:57:17.840 in the Book of John achieve me in the Book 1858 01:57:17.880 --> 01:57:21.520 of Revelation to Nero or about achieving about the Antichrist 1859 01:57:21.560 --> 01:57:24.159 or about Nero. So you could read a good book 1860 01:57:24.279 --> 01:57:29.439 like Before Jerusalem Fell or Peter Holford's book Destruction of Jerusalem. 1861 01:57:29.479 --> 01:57:36.279 Those are easy readable texts. But that's the normative interpretation 1862 01:57:36.399 --> 01:57:38.600 of a lot of the Orthodox Church fathers about Matthew 1863 01:57:38.600 --> 01:57:41.119 twenty four and Luke twenty one. But we do think 1864 01:57:41.199 --> 01:57:44.159 that there is going to be some final Antichrist and 1865 01:57:44.279 --> 01:57:46.600 some final attempt at you know, some kind of mark 1866 01:57:46.680 --> 01:57:48.600 and controlling everyone and all that. 1867 01:57:48.840 --> 01:57:51.760 Yes, okay, So I have a theory. 1868 01:57:53.239 --> 01:57:56.039 For those who believe like another mark of the Beast's 1869 01:57:56.039 --> 01:58:00.479 system could happen. Do you believe I I don't know 1870 01:58:00.479 --> 01:58:02.079 if I'm the first one to have ever thought of this, 1871 01:58:02.199 --> 01:58:05.479 I'm probably not. But how would you feel about the 1872 01:58:05.560 --> 01:58:09.600 theory that Zionism is the mark of the Beast, because 1873 01:58:09.640 --> 01:58:11.640 you don't have to be a Christian to be a 1874 01:58:11.760 --> 01:58:15.079 Zionist and to push for Jews to have their own 1875 01:58:15.079 --> 01:58:16.239 religious ethno state. 1876 01:58:16.520 --> 01:58:17.640 How would you feel about that? 1877 01:58:19.960 --> 01:58:23.800 I don't know, necessarily the Zionism itself, which is a secular, 1878 01:58:24.239 --> 01:58:30.039 you know, political movement amongst you know, pacifist, progressivists, Jews 1879 01:58:30.119 --> 01:58:33.039 from a century plus ago, that that wouldn't necessarily be 1880 01:58:33.319 --> 01:58:35.720 the mark. I mean, the mark is identified as something 1881 01:58:35.800 --> 01:58:39.680 specific on the body in some spiritual sense or perhaps 1882 01:58:39.760 --> 01:58:42.600 some physical sense. So I mean, I don't know that 1883 01:58:42.880 --> 01:58:45.159 it is that, but it might be related in some 1884 01:58:45.279 --> 01:58:49.119 way to a future third Temple or nation state of Israel. 1885 01:58:49.119 --> 01:58:52.880 Those are all possibilities. But if you look at a 1886 01:58:52.960 --> 01:58:55.159 book that's in the Orthodox canon that's not in the 1887 01:58:55.239 --> 01:59:00.239 Catholic canon, Third Macabees, there's an older version of this, 1888 01:59:00.760 --> 01:59:02.600 which I think in the Book of Revelation. When John 1889 01:59:02.640 --> 01:59:04.520 talks about the Mark, he's not really he's not like 1890 01:59:04.720 --> 01:59:07.640 just kind of picking that out as something that hasn't 1891 01:59:07.760 --> 01:59:11.760 had any historical precedents. If you read Third Maccabees, which 1892 01:59:11.800 --> 01:59:15.720 is again it's in the Orthodox Bible. Third Macabees has 1893 01:59:15.880 --> 01:59:19.359 told of me doing this very thing. And I think 1894 01:59:19.399 --> 01:59:22.960 we can get some insight into what this is through 1895 01:59:23.439 --> 01:59:26.880 reading Third Maccabees, because when he as a dictator tries 1896 01:59:26.920 --> 01:59:29.319 to institute a mark for everybody to buy and sell, 1897 01:59:30.119 --> 01:59:33.279 it is called the mark of the Mysteries of Dionysius. 1898 01:59:34.279 --> 01:59:36.439 Now I'm not saying that necessarily that means that the 1899 01:59:36.520 --> 01:59:39.600 end of the world's mark will be quote the Mysteries 1900 01:59:39.640 --> 01:59:41.840 of Dionysius. But it seems to be some kind of 1901 01:59:42.439 --> 01:59:46.159 blended sort of you know, haagan mystery religion thing. 1902 01:59:47.159 --> 01:59:49.239 Well, this is the last thing I'll say, and I'll 1903 01:59:49.279 --> 01:59:51.520 let the next person come up. But I started to 1904 01:59:51.600 --> 01:59:54.520 have this idea because if the Bible describes the Jews 1905 01:59:54.600 --> 01:59:59.439 as Synegod's at Satan, and you're pledging your allegiance Tosigonism 1906 01:59:59.560 --> 02:00:02.640 to these people, then I feel like that could be 1907 02:00:03.159 --> 02:00:04.079 kind of plausible. 1908 02:00:04.239 --> 02:00:09.640 So well, I mean, I'm not positive that we are 1909 02:00:09.720 --> 02:00:11.960 in the last days. In the last last days, I mean, 1910 02:00:11.960 --> 02:00:14.159 in one sense, the end times. The last days begin 1911 02:00:14.399 --> 02:00:18.399 at the First Advent. Jesus says that you know, he 1912 02:00:18.479 --> 02:00:22.199 would bring the age to come in the church. The 1913 02:00:22.279 --> 02:00:25.159 Church is the age to come. Joel says that when 1914 02:00:25.199 --> 02:00:26.880 the Holy Spirit's poured out on all flesh. It is 1915 02:00:26.960 --> 02:00:29.520 the last days, and if you read Acts two, that's 1916 02:00:30.159 --> 02:00:33.800 fulfilled at Pentecost. So I don't think the quote last 1917 02:00:33.880 --> 02:00:35.840 days is necessarily the end of the world, like a 1918 02:00:35.880 --> 02:00:38.840 lot of Protestants and Evangelicals do. We would say the 1919 02:00:38.920 --> 02:00:42.760 last days began. The eschatological reality of the eternal state 1920 02:00:43.119 --> 02:00:46.600 was brought at the First Advent. And so when John 1921 02:00:46.680 --> 02:00:48.720 sees into heaven, for example, in the in the Book 1922 02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:51.600 of Revelation, when he sees, you know, chapters five through nine, 1923 02:00:51.680 --> 02:00:55.520 the worship of in heaven, the marriage suffer of the Lamb, 1924 02:00:55.560 --> 02:00:58.239 that's going on in heaven. That's for us, the same 1925 02:00:58.359 --> 02:01:00.439 thing as what you see in an Orthodox Church of 1926 02:01:00.520 --> 02:01:03.439 the Divine liturgy. So the Divine Liturgy is literally the 1927 02:01:03.640 --> 02:01:07.520 eschatological marriage feasts of the Lamb here and now. So 1928 02:01:08.439 --> 02:01:11.039 all that to say that there's a lot of things 1929 02:01:11.119 --> 02:01:13.479 that I think have to occur that still haven't occurred. 1930 02:01:14.560 --> 02:01:18.199 I lean more towards an optimistic eschatology that the majority 1931 02:01:18.199 --> 02:01:21.600 of the world will be converted to authentic Christianity before 1932 02:01:21.640 --> 02:01:24.600 the return of Christ. How and when that will come about, 1933 02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:27.520 I don't know. But also Rumins eleven and most of 1934 02:01:27.560 --> 02:01:30.520 the church fathers who talk about it do discuss and 1935 02:01:30.600 --> 02:01:32.680 believe in a future conversion of the Jews. 1936 02:01:34.079 --> 02:01:36.000 Okay, well, thank you, that's all I had. 1937 02:01:36.439 --> 02:01:38.159 Well, And one thing to bring up to is that 1938 02:01:38.239 --> 02:01:43.960 it's pretty we're not encouraged to try to speculate too 1939 02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:45.399 heavily about the. 1940 02:01:46.720 --> 02:01:49.439 Aston and the end times. Good point, and we are 1941 02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:51.960 and I'm not saying I do this, I don't. 1942 02:01:51.800 --> 02:01:55.479 But we're encouraged to view it which is the truth 1943 02:01:55.560 --> 02:01:57.560 as it's that Christ is going to come and return 1944 02:01:57.640 --> 02:02:01.239 as a thief in the night and repent now, because 1945 02:02:01.279 --> 02:02:02.880 you could come back at any point and not. 1946 02:02:03.640 --> 02:02:06.199 Obsessed to figure all this stuff out. 1947 02:02:06.680 --> 02:02:09.680 And we're I would never say, oh, don't be weary 1948 02:02:09.720 --> 02:02:12.399 of things that you think could be pre sprecursors to 1949 02:02:12.520 --> 02:02:13.359 the Mark or. 1950 02:02:13.399 --> 02:02:16.000 Satanic movements and stuff. I'm not saying that, but like. 1951 02:02:16.600 --> 02:02:19.359 You know, definitely we're supposed to take it in a 1952 02:02:19.479 --> 02:02:22.960 very sobering way of we don't know, so try we're 1953 02:02:22.960 --> 02:02:24.239 supposed to repent now. 1954 02:02:25.199 --> 02:02:27.560 I think that's also part of that part. 1955 02:02:27.439 --> 02:02:30.760 Of the beauty of it. That's a really good point. Yeah, 1956 02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:32.800 a lot of evangelicalism is involved, and it's like a 1957 02:02:32.880 --> 02:02:37.399 really sensationalist kind of news headline is to Jesus. I'm 1958 02:02:37.439 --> 02:02:41.039 not saying you're doing that, but like people read headlines 1959 02:02:41.079 --> 02:02:43.079 and then they go, oh, then and they read that 1960 02:02:43.199 --> 02:02:46.359 into the Book of Revelation. And I mean it's understandable 1961 02:02:46.359 --> 02:02:48.159 because when I first started reading the Bible did the 1962 02:02:48.199 --> 02:02:51.119 exact same thing. When I was like nineteen and I 1963 02:02:51.199 --> 02:02:53.640 bought a bunch of prophecy books from the Christian book store, 1964 02:02:53.920 --> 02:02:57.159 I started like trying to figure out like, oh, the 1965 02:02:57.359 --> 02:02:59.359 you know, the locust out of the pit. That's like 1966 02:02:59.479 --> 02:03:01.119 helicopter of the New World Order. 1967 02:03:02.199 --> 02:03:04.159 You rip out pages, you put them up on a 1968 02:03:04.279 --> 02:03:06.520 pin boar a peg board, and you just got strings 1969 02:03:06.560 --> 02:03:07.479 attached between them. 1970 02:03:07.600 --> 02:03:10.520 You're triangulating the prophecies. 1971 02:03:10.720 --> 02:03:10.880 Yeah. 1972 02:03:10.920 --> 02:03:13.479 I actually I have friends here. 1973 02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:15.119 That I used to I used to sketch out when 1974 02:03:15.159 --> 02:03:17.399 I had the prophecy studied Bible on my sco footbable. 1975 02:03:17.399 --> 02:03:19.600 I used to sketch out like the dispensations for people. 1976 02:03:20.920 --> 02:03:21.119 Yeah. 1977 02:03:21.279 --> 02:03:24.640 Yeah, And it's it's interesting because I've seen, like I 1978 02:03:24.720 --> 02:03:28.479 have a personal friend. He's a smart guy, super talented musician, 1979 02:03:29.079 --> 02:03:32.079 really good heart too, and he for the last year 1980 02:03:32.119 --> 02:03:34.720 and a half, almost two years, he wasn't like he 1981 02:03:34.760 --> 02:03:36.520 wouldn't recording when it puts things out. 1982 02:03:36.560 --> 02:03:39.439 And again, he's world class, He's played with world class players, 1983 02:03:39.439 --> 02:03:40.119 and I kept. 1984 02:03:39.920 --> 02:03:42.399 Asking him, like why he goes honestly, I just feel 1985 02:03:42.439 --> 02:03:45.239 like the end times are coming in. After drilling it 1986 02:03:45.319 --> 02:03:48.479 into him, I think, you know, he finally realized, wait 1987 02:03:48.479 --> 02:03:50.000 a minute, maybe this is a deception. 1988 02:03:50.159 --> 02:03:50.319 To me. 1989 02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:53.039 Being obsessed with the end times is a demonic thing 1990 02:03:53.119 --> 02:03:55.000 to see see from actually doing something. 1991 02:03:55.680 --> 02:03:58.119 Exactly what did Jesus say? The Kingdom of God is 1992 02:03:58.199 --> 02:04:01.560 within you, meaning the life of the Holy Spirit within 1993 02:04:01.640 --> 02:04:05.399 your heart, within your news. And that does not mean 1994 02:04:05.439 --> 02:04:11.159 that it doesn't have an eventual, bodily external, cosmic manifestation 1995 02:04:11.600 --> 02:04:14.720 in the resurrection. But the Kingdom of God is not 1996 02:04:15.000 --> 02:04:18.000 a thing that comes down and lands like a giant 1997 02:04:18.840 --> 02:04:23.039 space pyramid of on Anaki out of Egypt right in Israel. 1998 02:04:23.720 --> 02:04:26.960 It's the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. That's 1999 02:04:27.000 --> 02:04:29.880 what Paul Ingalatian says is the Kingdom of God is 2000 02:04:30.039 --> 02:04:32.279 the present's Holy Spirit, and the virtue is of the 2001 02:04:32.279 --> 02:04:34.600 Holy Spirit within you. And that's had within the church, 2002 02:04:34.680 --> 02:04:40.079 within the liturgy. That's it. There is no geopolitical establishing 2003 02:04:40.199 --> 02:04:45.359 of some you know, earthly nation state, warrior kingdom or something. 2004 02:04:46.319 --> 02:04:46.439 You know. 2005 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:49.680 What's interesting last thing on this is thinking about it 2006 02:04:49.760 --> 02:04:52.920 now as we're talking about it, the people that are 2007 02:04:53.039 --> 02:04:56.479 obsessed with trying to figure out you know, in times, 2008 02:04:56.560 --> 02:04:59.479 prophecies and stuff like that to an unhealthy degree. It's 2009 02:04:59.520 --> 02:05:03.760 super ustick, actually is it's inherently gnostic. 2010 02:05:05.039 --> 02:05:06.800 And by the way, this is a delusion that anyone 2011 02:05:06.840 --> 02:05:10.000 can fall into, even Orthodox Monastics, they oftentimes have a 2012 02:05:10.079 --> 02:05:13.720 temptation to fall into this obsessing over trying to predict 2013 02:05:13.720 --> 02:05:16.479 the end times and who the Antichrist was and since 2014 02:05:16.520 --> 02:05:18.800 the Tsar fell or in the last days, and we 2015 02:05:18.840 --> 02:05:20.439 I mean we already had people on here tonight talking 2016 02:05:20.479 --> 02:05:25.359 about that. Ian. 2017 02:05:25.479 --> 02:05:28.399 What's up, Hey, Jay, I just had a question for 2018 02:05:28.479 --> 02:05:35.600 you about your partial criticism. So you're obviously very influenced 2019 02:05:35.640 --> 02:05:39.319 by James Jordan. I'd assume Peter Lightheart people like that. 2020 02:05:40.279 --> 02:05:45.640 Do you view the church today as being the Church victorious? 2021 02:05:45.800 --> 02:05:49.720 Using like James Jordan's symbolism of the forty years from 2022 02:05:49.800 --> 02:05:55.399 Christ's crucifixion to the destruction of the Temple being the 2023 02:05:55.720 --> 02:05:58.680 wilderness period of the Church, and then after the destruction 2024 02:05:58.720 --> 02:06:00.640 of the Temple the church now enters into the church 2025 02:06:00.720 --> 02:06:02.520 militant period. 2026 02:06:04.000 --> 02:06:06.079 After the destruction of the church or the temple or 2027 02:06:06.159 --> 02:06:10.560 the temple my bed. I'm not heavily committed to any 2028 02:06:10.560 --> 02:06:12.880 of those models. I don't think we have a set 2029 02:06:13.279 --> 02:06:16.119 clear idea on all that specifics. I mean, I think 2030 02:06:16.199 --> 02:06:18.760 Jordan's one of the first to really try to lay 2031 02:06:18.840 --> 02:06:23.239 out some possibilities there. Lightheart too. Are you a full preterist. 2032 02:06:24.359 --> 02:06:26.159 No, I'm more than I was Cate of Cumin. I 2033 02:06:26.279 --> 02:06:28.439 was just heavily influenced by Jordan and Lightheard. 2034 02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:30.279 Oh I got I'm sorry. I thought you were with 2035 02:06:30.520 --> 02:06:32.600 the guy who was in here earlier. Yes, we had 2036 02:06:32.640 --> 02:06:34.680 a full preterist guy in here trying to trap me earlier. 2037 02:06:34.800 --> 02:06:37.920 So no, I was just curious because I yeah, I 2038 02:06:38.000 --> 02:06:38.279 don't know. 2039 02:06:38.920 --> 02:06:43.439 I mean, I I just got Jordan's trilogy from my godfather, 2040 02:06:43.640 --> 02:06:46.119 so I haven't actually read it yet. I did read 2041 02:06:46.199 --> 02:06:48.079 Jordan's old stuff on it back in the day when 2042 02:06:48.119 --> 02:06:50.640 he put out some little books on it. I read 2043 02:06:50.720 --> 02:06:53.520 Lightheart back in the day, But I don't have any 2044 02:06:53.720 --> 02:06:58.560 set answers on exactly what is that stuff lining up to. 2045 02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:01.119 Yep, cool, I was just curious. 2046 02:07:02.880 --> 02:07:07.640 Yeah, I agree with like in the Jordanville book when 2047 02:07:07.640 --> 02:07:10.720 it's the Apostle. In any christ book, it makes the 2048 02:07:10.800 --> 02:07:16.359 point that whenever the actual end times draw nearer, the 2049 02:07:16.479 --> 02:07:19.319 church will have the mindset and the discernment to figure 2050 02:07:19.319 --> 02:07:21.760 out a lot of this stuff. So I think there's 2051 02:07:21.800 --> 02:07:23.760 some sense in which a lot of that will be 2052 02:07:23.880 --> 02:07:27.840 opened and revealed to the church as the church approaches 2053 02:07:27.920 --> 02:07:31.000 that time, because the church has the mind of Christ. So, 2054 02:07:31.720 --> 02:07:35.840 but I don't a lot of those answers. I don't have, Chris, 2055 02:07:35.960 --> 02:07:41.720 what's up, hey, guys. 2056 02:07:42.720 --> 02:07:44.399 Yeah, No, I wanted to bring up on on this 2057 02:07:44.760 --> 02:07:49.560 topic of sort of you know, dispensationalism and premillennialism. The 2058 02:07:49.960 --> 02:07:53.159 late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay. Those are the 2059 02:07:53.199 --> 02:07:55.279 other writers that he's influenced. There's a guy out there, 2060 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:59.720 Gary Wayne's Canadian author who's quite prolific, right, and he 2061 02:08:00.000 --> 02:08:01.800 actually I've listened to that a podcasts. He calls that 2062 02:08:01.920 --> 02:08:04.680 his coming to knowledge of like sort of his Nephelin 2063 02:08:04.800 --> 02:08:08.159 subject was through the lens of you know, the great 2064 02:08:08.239 --> 02:08:10.399 great planet Earth. And you know, I mean, just from 2065 02:08:10.680 --> 02:08:11.800 what I understand about it. 2066 02:08:11.880 --> 02:08:13.359 They heavily rely on, you know. 2067 02:08:13.520 --> 02:08:16.279 Prophecy, like Daniel and Ezekiel and revelation. 2068 02:08:16.479 --> 02:08:19.079 You had some guy on this space and Daniel nine 2069 02:08:19.119 --> 02:08:21.680 as we were arguing a couple of nights ago, is 2070 02:08:21.800 --> 02:08:24.079 the first Advent? It's not the end of the world. 2071 02:08:24.880 --> 02:08:26.880 No, oh yeah, of course, Well they're completely misplaced. 2072 02:08:26.920 --> 02:08:29.359 I'm not proposing this at all. I'm just saying I 2073 02:08:29.479 --> 02:08:33.760 just reiterated when you read Daniel nine, it changes everything 2074 02:08:33.840 --> 02:08:36.600 if it's talking about the first Advent. There's a few 2075 02:08:36.680 --> 02:08:37.760 other guys out there too. 2076 02:08:37.840 --> 02:08:39.199 But of course, I mean one of the things that 2077 02:08:39.279 --> 02:08:41.359 obviously it focuses on is like sort of like fake 2078 02:08:41.479 --> 02:08:45.000 Armageddon and the coming thereof like predicating I read. 2079 02:08:44.800 --> 02:08:47.079 The Gray Planet Earth back in the nineties when I 2080 02:08:47.199 --> 02:08:48.600 was an evangelical. 2081 02:08:48.760 --> 02:08:50.960 Yeah, and so yeah, and the I've read you know, 2082 02:08:51.079 --> 02:08:53.600 the the Gary Wayne stuff which pulls off of that 2083 02:08:53.760 --> 02:08:56.600 and some of the you know, mysticism and with the Nephelin, 2084 02:08:56.680 --> 02:08:58.960 which in and of itself is a hot topic with 2085 02:08:59.079 --> 02:09:03.840 the JQ because some connect you know, the Nephilim genetically 2086 02:09:04.600 --> 02:09:07.840 to you know, a modern day iteration of you know, 2087 02:09:07.920 --> 02:09:11.680 I guess the geopolitical state we've been talking about, you know, Israel. 2088 02:09:12.119 --> 02:09:14.000 That sounds like a bunch of fed shit. Honestly, that 2089 02:09:14.079 --> 02:09:17.600 sounds like that's a lot of Christian identity lunatics come 2090 02:09:17.720 --> 02:09:19.680 up with this kind of stuff, yea, And I wanted 2091 02:09:19.720 --> 02:09:21.720 to put that out there that people are arguing that. 2092 02:09:21.840 --> 02:09:24.159 So there's you know, obviously the orthodox position on this 2093 02:09:24.359 --> 02:09:27.359 is unassailable when it comes to eschatology, and just you know, 2094 02:09:27.520 --> 02:09:29.479 like take I think it's from I don't know as 2095 02:09:29.560 --> 02:09:31.079 much about it, but I could see it's a more 2096 02:09:31.199 --> 02:09:34.800 cautious approach than rather predicting, you know, based upon like 2097 02:09:34.880 --> 02:09:38.319 you know, piecing Bible pieces together, sort of like schizo. 2098 02:09:38.560 --> 02:09:41.880 You know, conpira. So that was just my comment. Good 2099 02:09:41.920 --> 02:09:44.359 good is a good point. You know, a lot of 2100 02:09:44.479 --> 02:09:48.319 low IQ evangelicals are duped into a lot of this 2101 02:09:49.039 --> 02:09:53.399 sort of hybrid nephylim genetic experiment stuff. Now, I'm not 2102 02:09:53.520 --> 02:09:57.119 saying that Genesis six isn't necessarily talking about angels. I'm 2103 02:09:57.159 --> 02:09:59.560 not like I've always thought that that's what the text 2104 02:09:59.640 --> 02:10:02.680 is saying, and there's many places in the Deutero canon 2105 02:10:02.760 --> 02:10:06.199 to talk about the same type of stuff too, But 2106 02:10:07.319 --> 02:10:09.000 I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with 2107 02:10:09.680 --> 02:10:13.359 what's happening right now in Israel or anything else. I mean, 2108 02:10:13.760 --> 02:10:15.439 I don't think it has anything to do with nephel M. 2109 02:10:17.119 --> 02:10:18.960 I could be wrong, and there's just something I don't 2110 02:10:19.000 --> 02:10:21.520 know about. But the other thing is that, like I said, 2111 02:10:22.159 --> 02:10:24.039 a lot of the groups that push that stuff are 2112 02:10:24.039 --> 02:10:27.960 the same groups that push the heresy of Christian identity stuff. 2113 02:10:28.159 --> 02:10:30.640 I'm not saying that the Gary Wayne dude teaches that, 2114 02:10:30.800 --> 02:10:32.800 but I'm saying there's overlap with these groups. That's a 2115 02:10:32.840 --> 02:10:35.560 lot of FED stuff. I've had those people come around 2116 02:10:35.600 --> 02:10:37.239 and try to debate too, and they're always like, well, 2117 02:10:37.239 --> 02:10:39.279 you know who the seed of the serpenty is. It's 2118 02:10:39.359 --> 02:10:42.800 the Jews. No, that's not saying that there's a there's 2119 02:10:42.840 --> 02:10:46.840 a and they actually literally believe that like Satan slept 2120 02:10:46.920 --> 02:10:49.560 with Eve and has a race of people. 2121 02:10:50.840 --> 02:10:54.239 Well then you know they actually as the creator of 2122 02:10:54.319 --> 02:10:56.680 all things and then God created. 2123 02:10:57.119 --> 02:10:59.359 Right. This is called the serpent seed heresy. And if 2124 02:10:59.359 --> 02:11:01.880 you ever meet a Christian identity person, this is what 2125 02:11:02.000 --> 02:11:08.279 they believe. And if I recall, uh Timothy McVeigh when 2126 02:11:08.279 --> 02:11:12.359 he was involved in Elohem City, that fake FED group 2127 02:11:12.399 --> 02:11:14.159 that he was involved in, I think they taught Christian 2128 02:11:14.199 --> 02:11:17.039 identity stuff. So this is like a classic FED trap. 2129 02:11:18.199 --> 02:11:21.840 Anyway, Well, about the serpent seed thing like hypothetically, if 2130 02:11:21.920 --> 02:11:25.479 someone if someone knew that their brother was literally the 2131 02:11:25.520 --> 02:11:27.239 Antichrist because of Vegan, made I. 2132 02:11:27.279 --> 02:11:29.199 Think, I think you might know a little bit about that. 2133 02:11:30.479 --> 02:11:34.520 What would their immediate brother also have to be serpent 2134 02:11:34.560 --> 02:11:36.279 seed or could there be like did they don't know? 2135 02:11:36.359 --> 02:11:38.800 It would mean that trist If Tristan is the Antichrist, 2136 02:11:38.920 --> 02:11:41.279 that would mean that Tristan is the ultimate seed of 2137 02:11:41.319 --> 02:11:46.399 the serpent. Yeah, okay, and like okay, so basically like 2138 02:11:46.520 --> 02:11:48.960 you would be justified and you know, like doing whatever 2139 02:11:49.000 --> 02:11:50.760 you need to do to save the world. Right, doesn't 2140 02:11:51.079 --> 02:11:54.039 like Keanu Reeves and Constantine. Right, Keanu is basically trying 2141 02:11:54.039 --> 02:11:55.279 to save the world from the anti Christ. 2142 02:11:55.399 --> 02:11:57.840 So well what a lot of people don't realize that 2143 02:11:57.960 --> 02:12:02.479 Keanu Reeves and Constantine that was actually a Masonic predicted 2144 02:12:02.560 --> 02:12:04.680 programming of what the end of the world is going 2145 02:12:04.760 --> 02:12:04.880 to be. 2146 02:12:05.840 --> 02:12:07.600 So the wait, are you saving us or not? 2147 02:12:09.479 --> 02:12:13.199 I can't I can't talk on Twitter. We'll yeah, we'll 2148 02:12:13.239 --> 02:12:14.079 talk on snapchat. 2149 02:12:14.359 --> 02:12:16.800 For those that don't know, there is a Vegan who's 2150 02:12:16.840 --> 02:12:21.680 basically exposed Tristan as the Antichrist. So that's what we're 2151 02:12:21.720 --> 02:12:24.479 talking about. It's a lot, it's really deep. It's hard 2152 02:12:24.479 --> 02:12:26.000 to go into and a lot of people are not 2153 02:12:26.000 --> 02:12:45.560 gonna understand it. But yeah, Marshall, Marshall, you can you 2154 02:12:45.560 --> 02:12:49.880 hear me? Yes, sir, all right, Uh yeah. 2155 02:12:49.920 --> 02:12:52.640 I was just uh earlier when you were talking about 2156 02:12:53.800 --> 02:12:55.800 the You're talking about the dating of the Book of 2157 02:12:55.880 --> 02:12:59.359 Revelation and stuff like that. I was just wondering, because 2158 02:12:59.359 --> 02:13:02.399 I don't think I've never heard this brought up. Do 2159 02:13:02.520 --> 02:13:06.399 you think it's the plausible that, like, say, the chapter 2160 02:13:06.520 --> 02:13:09.560 thirteen of the Book of Revelation and various other chapters 2161 02:13:10.279 --> 02:13:13.159 that they were written prior to seventy eight, and then 2162 02:13:13.479 --> 02:13:16.239 other chapters are written after, Like, is that plausible that 2163 02:13:16.239 --> 02:13:17.479 they're written at different times? 2164 02:13:18.199 --> 02:13:19.960 I think that would go against the tradition of the 2165 02:13:20.079 --> 02:13:22.399 Church that John wrote it and wrote it to the 2166 02:13:22.520 --> 02:13:26.199 seven churches. So I've not heard this, I mean, so 2167 02:13:26.520 --> 02:13:28.079 it sounds like a higher critical idea. 2168 02:13:30.439 --> 02:13:30.640 Yeah. 2169 02:13:30.640 --> 02:13:32.840 I was just I was just yeah, I was just 2170 02:13:32.920 --> 02:13:35.520 curious because like, I was never never heard that or 2171 02:13:35.640 --> 02:13:37.720 like thought about that. I just kind of thought about it. 2172 02:13:37.720 --> 02:13:39.640 I was like, Oh, I wonder, I wonder if that 2173 02:13:39.840 --> 02:13:40.479 could be the case. 2174 02:13:40.520 --> 02:13:44.119 Maybe they read before Jerusalem fell, because it's a it's 2175 02:13:44.159 --> 02:13:47.039 a thhd thesis on the on this thesis, which is 2176 02:13:47.119 --> 02:13:49.720 really good. So I'm not a huge fan obviously I 2177 02:13:49.840 --> 02:13:54.920 ken Gentry, but his thesis is pretty good. Roll with it. 2178 02:14:04.279 --> 02:14:08.359 Yeah, just a quick thought again about forgiving this point 2179 02:14:08.399 --> 02:14:10.560 across and stuff. You know, if the Calvinist says something 2180 02:14:10.680 --> 02:14:14.159 like I can retroactively be applied, it seems like they 2181 02:14:14.199 --> 02:14:16.119 still don't have a way to describe that it's other 2182 02:14:16.239 --> 02:14:19.960 than sovereignty, because I've never heard from a Protestant death 2183 02:14:20.039 --> 02:14:23.199 being defeated. So if the universal death is defeated on 2184 02:14:23.279 --> 02:14:26.079 the cross, then it seems like that would be awake. 2185 02:14:27.039 --> 02:14:29.079 I don't think they would. Yeah, they wouldn't connect it 2186 02:14:29.199 --> 02:14:32.199 to the defeat of death. They would say that it's 2187 02:14:32.359 --> 02:14:34.760 just the sovereignty of God that will just they can 2188 02:14:34.840 --> 02:14:37.119 just sort of apply the grace. But that's a great 2189 02:14:37.159 --> 02:14:39.680 point too, which is like, well, now wait a minute, dude, 2190 02:14:39.760 --> 02:14:42.680 just really a loud man, I can't hear you. Sorry, Okay, 2191 02:14:43.520 --> 02:14:45.079 that's actually a good point though, because it's like, well, 2192 02:14:45.079 --> 02:14:47.800 wait a minute, if God can apply the grace without 2193 02:14:47.880 --> 02:14:50.199 the work of the Cross, or in spite of it, 2194 02:14:50.359 --> 02:14:52.399 or just on the base of his sovereignty, then the 2195 02:14:52.479 --> 02:14:54.760 work of the cross isn't really necessary for this event, 2196 02:14:55.359 --> 02:14:59.600 So that's actually a good roundabout way to disprove PSA. 2197 02:14:59.760 --> 02:15:06.920 But Calvinism, it's a good point anybody else, it's open 2198 02:15:07.000 --> 02:15:11.760 for him. We've still got over three hundred people in here. 2199 02:15:11.760 --> 02:15:13.880 If you want to request to speak, ask a question, 2200 02:15:14.479 --> 02:15:19.159 if you like the debate, offer a challenge, bring an 2201 02:15:19.199 --> 02:15:21.439 issue to the Just keep it to the topics, please, 2202 02:15:21.600 --> 02:15:27.319 So we're not talking about catechumen, diet questions. Please, I'm 2203 02:15:27.359 --> 02:15:28.399 not talking about canon law. 2204 02:15:30.520 --> 02:15:32.800 Can we talk about fashion? Is that part of the topics? 2205 02:15:32.800 --> 02:15:33.319 I don't see that. 2206 02:15:34.960 --> 02:15:38.760 Men's maybe if we bring the Tristan in here, we 2207 02:15:38.840 --> 02:15:40.479 can talk fashion, can we not? 2208 02:15:40.720 --> 02:15:42.199 I'm having a good day, Okay. 2209 02:15:44.239 --> 02:15:47.279 I don't think we need the Beast system speaking to 2210 02:15:47.439 --> 02:15:57.319 us directly, do we? And Lo? I heard the Beast 2211 02:15:57.359 --> 02:16:10.000 speaking great words and bless us, So Chase, If if 2212 02:16:10.039 --> 02:16:13.600 Tristan is the Antichrist, who would the false prophet be? 2213 02:16:16.920 --> 02:16:18.119 Honestly, that would. 2214 02:16:18.800 --> 02:16:21.319 That would have to be a email or some figure 2215 02:16:21.399 --> 02:16:24.920 promoting Tristan. Who would that be? Yeah? 2216 02:16:24.960 --> 02:16:26.840 That that would probably be Vegan Gains. 2217 02:16:29.760 --> 02:16:31.520 But if you're a vegan, why would Vegan Gains be 2218 02:16:31.600 --> 02:16:32.319 a false prophet? 2219 02:16:33.920 --> 02:16:39.079 Well, this is to lull the sheeople who support Tristan into, 2220 02:16:39.639 --> 02:16:46.559 you know, being caught in a false style. Yeah, I'm 2221 02:16:46.680 --> 02:16:49.280 I'm pretty close to figuring out what's going on here. 2222 02:16:49.280 --> 02:16:51.159 I just need a couple more days and I need 2223 02:16:51.200 --> 02:16:52.840 a couple more whiteboards to be able to draw. 2224 02:16:53.000 --> 02:16:55.319 You need some more profited some prophecy charts. 2225 02:16:56.280 --> 02:16:58.200 I need some more. I need to finish my prophecy 2226 02:16:58.280 --> 02:16:59.840 charts and then I'll get back to you. 2227 02:17:03.639 --> 02:17:06.120 I should do a skit making fun of propty charts. 2228 02:17:06.200 --> 02:17:08.200 That would be like really easy to do, and I 2229 02:17:08.280 --> 02:17:09.959 think a lot of people would think that's funny. 2230 02:17:12.120 --> 02:17:14.159 I think that a skit that would be funny too, 2231 02:17:14.239 --> 02:17:16.600 is a one make in front of the camatria of people, 2232 02:17:17.000 --> 02:17:19.959 just because it's so skitz and just the connections they 2233 02:17:20.040 --> 02:17:21.280 make are it's so insane. 2234 02:17:24.000 --> 02:17:26.639 Anybody else three hundred and ten people, Nobody wants to 2235 02:17:26.719 --> 02:17:29.319 come up and speak, ask a question, offer an argument, 2236 02:17:29.479 --> 02:17:35.319 present the counter thesis, anything to do with evangelicalism, dispensationalism 2237 02:17:35.399 --> 02:17:51.600 in times, Catholicism, Protestantism, Slow boy, slow boy, and then hey, 2238 02:17:53.639 --> 02:17:56.680 how are you good? What's on your mind? 2239 02:17:58.680 --> 02:17:58.879 Well? 2240 02:17:59.120 --> 02:18:01.639 I didn't have anything to argue about I just wanted 2241 02:18:01.639 --> 02:18:06.079 to see if you saw that Apostate prophet has started 2242 02:18:06.120 --> 02:18:07.600 going to Orthodox leturgy. 2243 02:18:09.760 --> 02:18:12.040 I saw him say that he had attended one. That's 2244 02:18:12.079 --> 02:18:16.200 good news. I hope that he I think. 2245 02:18:17.760 --> 02:18:20.719 I think his wife was raised Orthodox. 2246 02:18:21.040 --> 02:18:22.399 Yeah exactly. 2247 02:18:22.399 --> 02:18:23.360 I just wanted to say that. 2248 02:18:23.840 --> 02:18:24.639 I'm really happy. 2249 02:18:26.120 --> 02:18:28.879 I think if if he can influence. 2250 02:18:28.719 --> 02:18:32.520 David Wood, yeah, it would be awesome. 2251 02:18:32.879 --> 02:18:36.840 Like I don't understand why David Wood has never considered 2252 02:18:36.879 --> 02:18:41.840 it or won't. Yeah right, I don't have anything personally 2253 02:18:41.879 --> 02:18:44.559 against David Wood or anything, but I mean he's out 2254 02:18:44.600 --> 02:18:47.479 of Fordham, so I don't I don't know. Maybe that 2255 02:18:47.600 --> 02:18:49.639 has a part to plan it. I'm not booting you, 2256 02:18:49.799 --> 02:18:53.360 it's it was really choppy audio. So but thank you 2257 02:18:53.440 --> 02:18:58.079 for that. Uh, promitheus. 2258 02:18:59.159 --> 02:19:05.000 Up, Jay, it's PROBYTHEUS. Okay, thanks for having me. I 2259 02:19:05.159 --> 02:19:07.399 just saw the title and thought i'd come in. 2260 02:19:08.159 --> 02:19:20.680 Okay, what's on your mind? Are you there? Did you 2261 02:19:20.719 --> 02:19:21.760 want did you want to talk? 2262 02:19:24.639 --> 02:19:27.159 He just wanted to let you know his name, and uh, 2263 02:19:27.440 --> 02:19:30.040 I think that's pretty that's pretty Sorr Todd father or either. 2264 02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:32.159 I am here? 2265 02:19:32.280 --> 02:19:35.559 Is it working? Yes, sir? H Yeah, I just had 2266 02:19:35.600 --> 02:19:36.200 a quick question. 2267 02:19:36.319 --> 02:19:39.920 I remember some months ago, Sam had said something about 2268 02:19:40.239 --> 02:19:41.879 you were going to have a debate on his channel 2269 02:19:41.879 --> 02:19:45.920 about Catholicism versus Orthodoxy, and I was just wondering if 2270 02:19:45.959 --> 02:19:48.319 that had happened yet, or if I had just missed her, 2271 02:19:48.399 --> 02:19:49.440 or is it not gonna happen. 2272 02:19:49.680 --> 02:19:49.760 Uh? 2273 02:19:50.000 --> 02:19:52.760 No, No one in my circles and my friends wants 2274 02:19:52.799 --> 02:19:56.040 anything to do with William Helmbrecht, and so what I 2275 02:19:56.200 --> 02:20:00.639 offered was to do a presentation, to not have a 2276 02:20:00.719 --> 02:20:03.399 direct None of us want anything to do with Albrecht. 2277 02:20:03.520 --> 02:20:07.440 He's a really slimy person. It's not an excuse. And 2278 02:20:07.559 --> 02:20:12.159 so what we offered to do was Albrick does a 2279 02:20:12.200 --> 02:20:14.280 presentation on his channel and then I do a counter 2280 02:20:14.360 --> 02:20:16.959 presentation or vice versa. And I've not heard back from 2281 02:20:17.000 --> 02:20:24.399 Sam on whether he wants to do that, do you 2282 02:20:24.479 --> 02:20:28.200 hear me? Yeah? All right, yep, that was it. That's 2283 02:20:28.239 --> 02:20:31.600 all surely anything I had. So yeah, originally it was 2284 02:20:31.600 --> 02:20:34.799 going to be a round table, and then UBI didn' 2285 02:20:34.840 --> 02:20:37.760 want anything to do with Albrecht other possible people, so 2286 02:20:37.840 --> 02:20:39.719 they don't want anything to do with Albrecht. And then 2287 02:20:40.079 --> 02:20:41.600 Sam asked me if I want to do one on 2288 02:20:41.719 --> 02:20:43.600 one with Albrecht. I said no, I'd rather just do 2289 02:20:43.760 --> 02:20:47.159 a separate presentation to not any even directly interact with him. 2290 02:20:48.479 --> 02:21:06.319 Did you want to say something else, Prometheus? Yeah, I'm sorry. 2291 02:21:07.399 --> 02:21:08.200 Were you talking to me? 2292 02:21:10.040 --> 02:21:11.559 You requested to speak? Yeah? What's up? 2293 02:21:12.680 --> 02:21:12.879 Yeah? 2294 02:21:12.959 --> 02:21:13.159 Jay? 2295 02:21:13.399 --> 02:21:16.719 No, thanks for having me up first and foremost. No, 2296 02:21:17.040 --> 02:21:20.079 like I believe that we are at the time that 2297 02:21:20.239 --> 02:21:25.159 Jesus described. No, regardless of the labels, I don't really like, 2298 02:21:25.879 --> 02:21:28.479 you know, are you this faction or that faction? I 2299 02:21:28.600 --> 02:21:31.799 know that's the title, but I just consider myself a 2300 02:21:31.879 --> 02:21:32.760 follower of Christ. 2301 02:21:33.399 --> 02:21:34.559 I believe that we are. 2302 02:21:35.239 --> 02:21:38.280 You know, when he talks about in Luke twenty one, 2303 02:21:39.399 --> 02:21:44.120 when you see these signs earthquakes, nation fighting against nation, 2304 02:21:45.159 --> 02:21:47.239 plagues which we just had a big one. 2305 02:21:48.399 --> 02:21:51.000 Rewind there, because at the beginning of that chapter he 2306 02:21:51.159 --> 02:21:55.200 talks about the people standing in front of him would 2307 02:21:55.280 --> 02:21:59.200 not see. They would not pass away until they saw 2308 02:21:59.319 --> 02:22:01.840 all those things has happened, And all those things happened 2309 02:22:01.920 --> 02:22:05.399 in seventy a d. So that's a prediction of Jerusalem 2310 02:22:05.440 --> 02:22:08.079 being surrounded. That's what he tells them to pray that 2311 02:22:08.200 --> 02:22:10.239 it doesn't happen on the Sabbath day that they have 2312 02:22:10.360 --> 02:22:13.600 to fleet outside the city. Those are all events that 2313 02:22:13.680 --> 02:22:16.040 are contemporary with the generation in front of him. 2314 02:22:17.920 --> 02:22:23.239 Absolutely, and it was a mixed star right now. Well, 2315 02:22:24.159 --> 02:22:27.159 I respectfully disagree because I believe he talked about both. 2316 02:22:27.600 --> 02:22:30.440 I believe talked about absolutely. 2317 02:22:30.639 --> 02:22:33.399 How I would fleeing. I agree with you that it 2318 02:22:33.479 --> 02:22:35.280 is also talking about the end of the world, But 2319 02:22:35.399 --> 02:22:37.799 how would that apply to what's happening right now because 2320 02:22:37.840 --> 02:22:39.479 there was an earthquake or something like that. 2321 02:22:41.040 --> 02:22:44.280 Well, has Jesus come back? That's the main question when 2322 02:22:44.319 --> 02:22:46.520 he'd ask ourselves because the dement. 2323 02:22:47.079 --> 02:22:50.079 But he came in judgment in seventy eight as he 2324 02:22:50.280 --> 02:22:54.159 promised to destroy Jerusalem, just like he came in judgment 2325 02:22:54.200 --> 02:22:56.399 on the clouds in Isaiah nineteen as he said he 2326 02:22:56.399 --> 02:22:58.520 would do. And then Ezekiel he says, I will come 2327 02:22:58.559 --> 02:23:02.079 in judgment on the cloud. He didn't literally visibly come back, 2328 02:23:02.200 --> 02:23:07.440 but it was a prophetic term language for the coming judgment, which, 2329 02:23:07.799 --> 02:23:11.159 for example, in the Babylonian case, God judge the Israelites 2330 02:23:11.200 --> 02:23:13.840 by bringing the Babylonians in to destroy Israel. So the 2331 02:23:13.920 --> 02:23:16.520 same thing happened in seventy eighty. It's a mirrored fulfillment. 2332 02:23:16.959 --> 02:23:18.360 And I'm just saying that some of the things that 2333 02:23:18.399 --> 02:23:22.479 you've listed actually are referenced in the Book of Acts 2334 02:23:22.760 --> 02:23:26.840 as well. So why would we think that an earthquake 2335 02:23:26.959 --> 02:23:30.200 happening somewhere is somehow or the fulfillment of that. 2336 02:23:31.719 --> 02:23:36.360 Well, has the millennial reign happened in your view, because. 2337 02:23:36.639 --> 02:23:39.840 My reign is the church. So for example, every time 2338 02:23:39.920 --> 02:23:42.280 Psalm one ten, for the most part, when it's cited 2339 02:23:42.280 --> 02:23:45.440 in the New Testament, it decided about the ascension and 2340 02:23:45.600 --> 02:23:46.559 not the Second Coming. 2341 02:23:48.600 --> 02:23:51.600 All right, if I could speak just for a couple 2342 02:23:51.639 --> 02:23:53.280 of minutes here, okay, well. 2343 02:23:54.200 --> 02:23:56.000 What I said registered, Are you aware of what I'm 2344 02:23:56.000 --> 02:23:56.479 talking about? 2345 02:23:57.280 --> 02:23:57.959 Yeah, yeah, I am. 2346 02:23:58.159 --> 02:24:00.079 And again I would have liked you to what what 2347 02:24:00.879 --> 02:24:02.680 is respectfully disagree? 2348 02:24:02.799 --> 02:24:06.159 Okay? So what is disagree? Question about that? What is 2349 02:24:06.200 --> 02:24:07.280 Psalm one ten about? 2350 02:24:10.799 --> 02:24:13.200 Feel free to read it to me, because I'm one 2351 02:24:13.200 --> 02:24:14.159 of the most I can't. 2352 02:24:14.040 --> 02:24:17.360 Know it, Almostsienic Psalms sit at my right hand until 2353 02:24:17.399 --> 02:24:20.719 I make your enemies your footstool. When did Jesus sit 2354 02:24:20.799 --> 02:24:21.680 at the Father's right. 2355 02:24:21.600 --> 02:24:24.559 Hand when he ascended? 2356 02:24:25.040 --> 02:24:28.120 Yes, so the beginning of the reign of Christ to 2357 02:24:28.319 --> 02:24:30.280 sit at the right hand of the Father to reign 2358 02:24:30.319 --> 02:24:33.200 in that kingdom, just like Daniel seven says when he 2359 02:24:33.360 --> 02:24:35.559 comes to the Ancient of days, and he's given authority 2360 02:24:35.600 --> 02:24:38.879 over all tribes, songs and nations. When John sees into heaven, 2361 02:24:39.360 --> 02:24:41.840 he sees that as a present reality, that the Lamb 2362 02:24:42.040 --> 02:24:45.479 in heaven is given authority, dominion, and power over all tribes, 2363 02:24:45.479 --> 02:24:48.920 songs and nations. So Daniel seven is fulfilled in what 2364 02:24:49.079 --> 02:24:52.159 John sees in the book Revelation. It's the present reign 2365 02:24:52.239 --> 02:24:54.760 of Christ in the Church. That's why Jesus consistently refers 2366 02:24:54.760 --> 02:24:58.479 to the Church as the kingdom, such as Matthew sixteen. 2367 02:24:58.639 --> 02:25:01.040 He tells Peter, you are the rock, and I will 2368 02:25:01.040 --> 02:25:04.479 give you the keys. You will be the keyholder of 2369 02:25:04.639 --> 02:25:10.040 the Kingdom of Heaven. So it's a present reality. 2370 02:25:10.520 --> 02:25:14.600 I disagree with your interpretation in all. 2371 02:25:14.639 --> 02:25:17.479 Those versus where is there anything that is your interpretation? 2372 02:25:18.719 --> 02:25:21.520 It's it's not about my interpretation. It's about the physical 2373 02:25:21.600 --> 02:25:23.600 reality of the fact that the Church is still here. 2374 02:25:24.040 --> 02:25:26.959 Paul said in the Twinkling of an Eye the Church. 2375 02:25:28.120 --> 02:25:30.440 Hold on, you've been talking, bro, Do I get to 2376 02:25:30.520 --> 02:25:31.360 respond or are you. 2377 02:25:31.399 --> 02:25:32.319 Just going to talk over me? 2378 02:25:32.479 --> 02:25:35.319 Goodbye? Prime? 2379 02:25:37.639 --> 02:25:40.360 Definitely I agree with that young man that was talking 2380 02:25:40.399 --> 02:25:42.319 to you about the rapture. 2381 02:25:42.399 --> 02:25:44.879 Yeah, there's no rapture in the Bible. The rapture is 2382 02:25:45.040 --> 02:25:47.559 the bodily second coming of Christ to take us up 2383 02:25:47.600 --> 02:25:49.879 to the clouds. Does the Bible teach two comings of 2384 02:25:49.959 --> 02:25:53.719 Christ or one two? No teaches one. There's a twin 2385 02:25:53.799 --> 02:25:57.280 coming of Christ at the end to resonate. Tell me 2386 02:25:57.319 --> 02:26:00.159 about one. Tell me what's the only one? First cristin 2387 02:26:00.319 --> 02:26:03.639 fifteen Paul says that all of humanity will be resurrected 2388 02:26:03.680 --> 02:26:07.760 in Christ. That's the second resurrection. The first resurrection is baptism, 2389 02:26:08.079 --> 02:26:11.159 which begins when you join the church. Man, you're taking 2390 02:26:11.280 --> 02:26:14.760 the context out of the Bible. Man, I take the 2391 02:26:14.879 --> 02:26:21.520 context out. Sound like a pharisee. The only paris here's 2392 02:26:21.600 --> 02:26:25.440 you because you actually you are judaizing heretics. You're the Pharisees. 2393 02:26:25.920 --> 02:26:26.319 I'll tell you. 2394 02:26:26.399 --> 02:26:29.879 In Thessalonians we talk about the raptures and the second 2395 02:26:29.959 --> 02:26:31.239 coming is with Jews. 2396 02:26:31.920 --> 02:26:35.319 You don't like Jews? All right, you're a heretic. Do 2397 02:26:35.399 --> 02:26:50.399 you like Jews? You're a heretic, Father Christopher, You'll notice 2398 02:26:50.440 --> 02:26:53.000 the evangelicals have no conception of the Church. You see, 2399 02:26:53.040 --> 02:26:57.680 this is the big missing blind spot that Christ's reign 2400 02:26:58.319 --> 02:27:01.760 is in his kingdom which he identifies as the church 2401 02:27:01.840 --> 02:27:05.479 that he set up. Paul says, Jimi Peter says that 2402 02:27:05.719 --> 02:27:09.200 the church is a nation, a priesthood built on the 2403 02:27:09.280 --> 02:27:12.840 foundation stones of the apostles. It's a present reality. That 2404 02:27:13.040 --> 02:27:16.600 means the Church, the Temple, the body, the kingdom, the branch, 2405 02:27:16.840 --> 02:27:19.760 the tree, They're all identical. The sheep fold. It's the 2406 02:27:19.879 --> 02:27:26.799 same analogies for one historical visible entity, the Orthodox Church. 2407 02:27:27.040 --> 02:27:39.159 That's it, Father Christopher, Hello everyone, God bless you. I 2408 02:27:39.600 --> 02:27:44.920 remember that I read on Saint tel Philostoph Bulgaria. He 2409 02:27:45.040 --> 02:27:51.360 interpreted that passage from Matthew that it was referring both 2410 02:27:51.440 --> 02:27:55.200 to the destruction of Jerusalem and the second coming of Christ. 2411 02:27:55.680 --> 02:28:02.040 There were separate passages. And this is also spiritual, as 2412 02:28:02.079 --> 02:28:06.360 I remember, there are spiritual symbols over there. So your 2413 02:28:06.440 --> 02:28:09.760 run out to be on winter or on the Saturday. 2414 02:28:10.360 --> 02:28:13.040 It's referring to the cold of faith. 2415 02:28:13.120 --> 02:28:15.760 And the Saturday is the lack of work. 2416 02:28:15.959 --> 02:28:19.159 So the laziness when you do not do the commandments 2417 02:28:19.239 --> 02:28:21.280 of the commandments of God's right. 2418 02:28:22.079 --> 02:28:24.959 I understand that, but with a lot of evangelicals going 2419 02:28:25.040 --> 02:28:27.719 into the spiritual meanings of the text is going to 2420 02:28:27.760 --> 02:28:30.079 be lost on them and so I was focusing on 2421 02:28:30.840 --> 02:28:35.559 the immediate historical, grammatical, historical context just to get the 2422 02:28:35.639 --> 02:28:38.639 evangelicals out of thinking of it as the end of 2423 02:28:38.680 --> 02:28:39.799 the world necessarily. 2424 02:28:40.799 --> 02:28:42.159 Okay, okay, thank you very much. 2425 02:28:42.520 --> 02:28:45.120 I appreciate absolutely No, you brought a great point, and 2426 02:28:45.239 --> 02:28:48.200 we do want to stress that it is we agree 2427 02:28:48.479 --> 02:28:52.000 of both. Right. So Jesus is talking about the events 2428 02:28:52.479 --> 02:28:55.559 contemporary with him. If you read Saint John Chrystalstm's sermons 2429 02:28:56.159 --> 02:28:59.639 on Matthew twenty four, for example, he makes us very 2430 02:28:59.680 --> 02:29:02.440 clear that about the destruction of the Temple, and there 2431 02:29:02.520 --> 02:29:04.440 is an application to the end of the world as well. 2432 02:29:04.600 --> 02:29:05.760 How do we know that? How do we know that 2433 02:29:05.799 --> 02:29:09.559 it's a mirrored thing? Again, because the abomination of desolation 2434 02:29:09.920 --> 02:29:14.559 that Daniel talks about is referring to the Maccabees. This 2435 02:29:14.719 --> 02:29:16.920 is why the Maccabees is in the Orthodox Bible. It 2436 02:29:16.959 --> 02:29:24.000 helps us understand this stuff. When Antiochus Apefans defiles the 2437 02:29:24.079 --> 02:29:26.920 temple by sacrificing a pig on the altar, that's the 2438 02:29:27.000 --> 02:29:31.040 abomination of desolation the days of the Maccabees. When Jesus 2439 02:29:31.120 --> 02:29:35.239 talks about the abomination of desolation in his day, he's 2440 02:29:35.280 --> 02:29:39.639 talking about Rome just like the Greeks, that they will 2441 02:29:39.760 --> 02:29:44.159 engage in the same defilement as a chastisement. And that's 2442 02:29:44.239 --> 02:29:50.360 exactly what happened in seventy eight when Titus Vespasian sacked Jerusalem, 2443 02:29:51.200 --> 02:29:54.360 put up the Roman pagan banners inside the temple, and 2444 02:29:54.479 --> 02:29:57.159 then burned it down and destroyed it. That's what Jesus 2445 02:29:57.280 --> 02:29:59.559 is predicting in Luke twenty one in Matthew twenty four. 2446 02:29:59.639 --> 02:30:05.319 So the evangelical idiots who remove that historic interpretation and 2447 02:30:05.399 --> 02:30:09.200 fulfillment literally are taken away one of the strongest proofs 2448 02:30:10.639 --> 02:30:13.200 of the inspiration of the Gospels. This is why this 2449 02:30:13.319 --> 02:30:16.120 is so devastating and stupid to do this. And there's 2450 02:30:16.200 --> 02:30:19.559 not two comings of Christ. There's one return of Christ 2451 02:30:19.719 --> 02:30:23.000 at the last day. Jesus consistently says in John five. 2452 02:30:23.399 --> 02:30:26.879 On the last Day the dead will be raised, some 2453 02:30:27.159 --> 02:30:30.120 to the resurrection of life, others to the resurrection of condemnation. 2454 02:30:30.239 --> 02:30:33.559 There's not two comings of Christ, like the idiot dispensationalists 2455 02:30:33.559 --> 02:30:37.920 and premillennials say, there's one final return of Christ. That's 2456 02:30:37.959 --> 02:30:41.520 why this heresy is so insidious. You'll notice all these 2457 02:30:41.559 --> 02:30:47.040 people no connection to the historical Church. They default to Israel, 2458 02:30:47.200 --> 02:30:49.920 a secular nation state, as their church. That's so stupid 2459 02:30:49.959 --> 02:30:52.239 these people are. It's an amazing. 2460 02:30:54.799 --> 02:31:01.079 It just becomes obvious. Obviously almost all, even Agelicals, are 2461 02:31:01.399 --> 02:31:06.280 historically illiterate. Yes, and so they would know this if 2462 02:31:06.319 --> 02:31:09.760 they were historically literate, first and of all. In the 2463 02:31:09.879 --> 02:31:15.120 second of all, they would know that millennialism and Chileanism 2464 02:31:15.600 --> 02:31:19.319 was condemned. Now that's not the same thing as rapture theory, 2465 02:31:19.440 --> 02:31:21.360 but it has elements obviously of it. 2466 02:31:22.840 --> 02:31:25.559 And so what we just go to the text and 2467 02:31:25.680 --> 02:31:26.440 what do you notice? 2468 02:31:27.079 --> 02:31:30.440 So they'll get the wrong interpretation because they're historically illiterate, 2469 02:31:30.559 --> 02:31:33.440 not knowing these things are already been solved and the 2470 02:31:33.520 --> 02:31:38.280 proofs are in the history. But number two, going to 2471 02:31:38.440 --> 02:31:40.559 the text, what do you see? There's no amount of 2472 02:31:40.719 --> 02:31:44.559 evidence that you can present to them from the text. Well, 2473 02:31:44.840 --> 02:31:47.920 they'll accept it. They'll just reinterpret it like this guy, 2474 02:31:48.000 --> 02:31:51.200 Oh brother, you're interpreting you wrong. You're so wait a minute, 2475 02:31:51.360 --> 02:31:55.479 everybody got this wrong for eighteen hundred years. 2476 02:31:56.559 --> 02:31:59.040 They don't even know what the church taught historically, and 2477 02:31:59.159 --> 02:31:59.600 they don't care. 2478 02:32:00.079 --> 02:32:02.399 Dot and then so and then we're going to get 2479 02:32:02.399 --> 02:32:04.799 our we have to wait eighteen hundred years to get 2480 02:32:04.840 --> 02:32:10.840 the correct interpretation from a fever dream from a guy 2481 02:32:10.920 --> 02:32:15.319 that comes out of Plymouth Brethren that are a cult 2482 02:32:15.399 --> 02:32:18.159 even by and weirdos even by Protestant standards. 2483 02:32:19.319 --> 02:32:22.079 Yeah, there's literally no Protestants to tat that doctrine either. 2484 02:32:22.239 --> 02:32:33.399 It's a good point, yeah, Slopez, Okay. 2485 02:32:34.120 --> 02:32:36.319 It's for some reason. 2486 02:32:36.360 --> 02:32:40.719 Again, I can't hear you. I'm not talking. 2487 02:32:41.600 --> 02:32:45.920 Oh sorry, Okay, I had a question. I was reading 2488 02:32:46.000 --> 02:32:49.000 one of the books that you recommended, Orthodox Dogmatic. 2489 02:32:48.639 --> 02:32:52.520 Theology and PSI or Stunny Yes. 2490 02:32:53.120 --> 02:32:57.280 By Pomazansky, And inside of it he speaks about the 2491 02:32:58.000 --> 02:33:03.040 Christ as a sacrifice, and so I have a Protestant background, 2492 02:33:03.120 --> 02:33:05.120 and so some of it's just confusing to me. And 2493 02:33:05.360 --> 02:33:09.559 in it he's talking about let me pull up the 2494 02:33:09.639 --> 02:33:15.639 quote exactly, so it's from Saint Gregory the Theologian, and 2495 02:33:16.520 --> 02:33:18.760 he's talking about to whom was the blood offered? And 2496 02:33:18.840 --> 02:33:21.200 to whom what is it shed? And why was it shed? 2497 02:33:21.399 --> 02:33:23.200 I mean the precious blood of our glorious God. And 2498 02:33:23.239 --> 02:33:25.120 then of course he goes further on to say that 2499 02:33:25.719 --> 02:33:28.479 it wasn't to God the Father, and then it also 2500 02:33:28.639 --> 02:33:33.079 wasn't to Satan. The robber is how he refers to him. 2501 02:33:34.120 --> 02:33:35.399 Can you just help me understand. 2502 02:33:35.680 --> 02:33:38.399 Yeah, So when you continue reading the book, you'll come 2503 02:33:38.479 --> 02:33:41.920 eventually to a chapter later on, and it may be 2504 02:33:42.040 --> 02:33:45.239 around that section where he will cite a Byzantine synod 2505 02:33:45.360 --> 02:33:49.200 that actually resolved this question when it came up around 2506 02:33:49.239 --> 02:33:53.200 the eleventh century. And what happens is that the divine 2507 02:33:53.280 --> 02:33:58.239 person of the Word is offering the human nature as 2508 02:33:58.399 --> 02:34:01.959 a sacrifice or in an of love, not to pay 2509 02:34:02.040 --> 02:34:06.840 off wrath or a debt, but to the Father by 2510 02:34:06.959 --> 02:34:09.159 the Son in the Holy Spirit. So the reason it's 2511 02:34:09.200 --> 02:34:11.360 not quote to the Father is not because it's not 2512 02:34:11.479 --> 02:34:13.520 at all to the Father. It's because it's not just 2513 02:34:13.719 --> 02:34:18.239 to the Father. That's because Roman Catholics in the Anselmian 2514 02:34:18.319 --> 02:34:22.600 theory teachs that the son is offered to the Father 2515 02:34:23.239 --> 02:34:27.719 as a payment. But that's a heresy because there's nothing 2516 02:34:27.760 --> 02:34:30.719 that exists or happens in God that is between two 2517 02:34:30.799 --> 02:34:34.840 persons and isn't triadic. So you can't have an offering 2518 02:34:35.200 --> 02:34:38.000 of the son to the Father that excludes the spirit. 2519 02:34:38.639 --> 02:34:41.920 So the Businessing Synod states that in the liturgy we've 2520 02:34:42.040 --> 02:34:46.239 solved this theological dilemma by noting that thine own, of 2521 02:34:46.360 --> 02:34:49.959 thine own, we offer unto Thee meaning Christ, the divine 2522 02:34:50.000 --> 02:34:53.319 person of the word, offers the human nature to the 2523 02:34:53.440 --> 02:34:57.319 Father by himself in the spirit. So it's a triadic 2524 02:34:57.479 --> 02:35:00.360 trinitarian offering, is what the synods decided. 2525 02:35:01.559 --> 02:35:04.040 Okay, and that makes the language and the liturgy make 2526 02:35:04.120 --> 02:35:07.520 more sense exactly, okay, okay, perfect, thank you jay. 2527 02:35:08.159 --> 02:35:10.760 Yeah. And you'll notice how different that is from Protestanism 2528 02:35:10.799 --> 02:35:14.479 because for the Orthodox, the liturgy ended up solving this development. 2529 02:35:15.239 --> 02:35:18.120 So it's not that the Bible doesn't matter. The liturgy 2530 02:35:18.200 --> 02:35:22.239 is literally all Bible, like every bit of it. But 2531 02:35:22.680 --> 02:35:27.000 the Church said, our liturgical service itself is a kind 2532 02:35:27.040 --> 02:35:30.520 of divine tradition that can help resolve this question. 2533 02:35:31.920 --> 02:35:35.079 So is then the Protestant understanding of it just come 2534 02:35:35.159 --> 02:35:40.840 from a further taking of Augustine's theology? 2535 02:35:41.719 --> 02:35:43.879 Uh No, not really Augustine. In fact, Augustine would be 2536 02:35:43.959 --> 02:35:46.360 much more in line with us on this topic. Actually, 2537 02:35:46.600 --> 02:35:50.399 it's a combination of Anse's theory of atonement, which is 2538 02:35:50.440 --> 02:35:53.600 a payment debt model. He's really the first to suggest 2539 02:35:53.920 --> 02:35:57.159 a legal payment debt theory, and some thinks that there's 2540 02:35:57.200 --> 02:35:59.920 an infinite debt, a creed to accrued to us by sin, 2541 02:36:00.000 --> 02:36:03.680 and that only an infinite person could pay off, namely 2542 02:36:03.799 --> 02:36:06.520 God the Son. So God the Son pays off the 2543 02:36:06.600 --> 02:36:08.840 infinite debt to God the Father, and thus his wrath 2544 02:36:08.959 --> 02:36:12.920 is assuaged. So the beginning is of atonement PSA type 2545 02:36:12.959 --> 02:36:15.559 theory in that way, in a legal construct you go 2546 02:36:15.600 --> 02:36:17.920 to ansel. But then you get in the middle ages 2547 02:36:17.920 --> 02:36:20.920 of a very important development called nominalism from William of 2548 02:36:20.959 --> 02:36:26.239 Oakham and Gabriel Bile, and they influence Luther, who is 2549 02:36:26.280 --> 02:36:29.120 able to then say, well, this is how God can 2550 02:36:29.239 --> 02:36:33.920 say you are legally righteous and declared and viewed as righteous, 2551 02:36:34.479 --> 02:36:38.520 even though onto logically speaking, you have not become righteous. 2552 02:36:38.920 --> 02:36:42.040 You're still filthy rags. But God can declare you and 2553 02:36:42.159 --> 02:36:46.399 see you as righteous through the legal imputational covering of price. 2554 02:36:47.760 --> 02:36:50.600 And it's based on nominalism, namely that things can be 2555 02:36:50.719 --> 02:36:53.520 called things even if they're not that thing. Do you 2556 02:36:53.600 --> 02:36:54.719 know what I mean monominalism? 2557 02:36:55.680 --> 02:36:56.840 Not exactly now, I'm sorry. 2558 02:36:56.920 --> 02:37:00.479 So it's a denial of things having essences. Right, So 2559 02:37:00.760 --> 02:37:03.799 how could God call a man righteous if in fact 2560 02:37:03.840 --> 02:37:07.680 he is in fact unrighteous? And for the Orthodox right, 2561 02:37:07.760 --> 02:37:10.879 being righteous means that you're participating in the uncreated onto 2562 02:37:10.959 --> 02:37:14.520 logical energies of God. You see, it's not just a 2563 02:37:14.600 --> 02:37:19.120 legal status, but Luther needed a way to make it 2564 02:37:19.479 --> 02:37:24.920 a purely legal status with no ontological metaphysical implications. The 2565 02:37:25.000 --> 02:37:29.959 philosophy of nominalism, which denies the existence of essences and universals, 2566 02:37:30.600 --> 02:37:34.239 allowed him to make that move. Okay, okay, So that 2567 02:37:34.280 --> 02:37:36.200 makes a lot of the other thing that that proves. 2568 02:37:36.600 --> 02:37:39.280 And you can read Haiko Oberman's book, who himself is 2569 02:37:39.319 --> 02:37:45.360 a Lutheran on this called Harvest Medieval Theology, and al 2570 02:37:45.399 --> 02:37:48.079 Tra McGrath's what you See You Today. They both are 2571 02:37:48.159 --> 02:37:51.760 Protestant theologians who admit all this. What that shows us 2572 02:37:51.879 --> 02:37:53.840 is that if the ancient and medieval world did not 2573 02:37:53.959 --> 02:37:58.440 teach nominalism, then sola fide is literally impossible in the 2574 02:37:58.479 --> 02:38:01.840 ancient world. That means Paul didn't teach soul. If you didn't. 2575 02:38:02.959 --> 02:38:05.360 And so when we hear early Church fathers talking about 2576 02:38:05.399 --> 02:38:07.959 Christ as a sacrifice, this is what they mean Versus 2577 02:38:08.719 --> 02:38:11.079 and Protestants when they hear that, they kind of just 2578 02:38:11.719 --> 02:38:13.280 put their own ideology into that. 2579 02:38:14.040 --> 02:38:16.399 Correct And also you'll note when you read through the 2580 02:38:16.440 --> 02:38:18.600 Palma Zanski, there will be a section where they cite 2581 02:38:18.600 --> 02:38:21.600 the Byzantine Synod that I was referring to, where it 2582 02:38:21.680 --> 02:38:25.680 talks about how well we could what creature could pay 2583 02:38:25.760 --> 02:38:28.879 off God even if we did have a debt model. Here, 2584 02:38:30.239 --> 02:38:34.639 I mean, you can't pay God with a human body 2585 02:38:34.799 --> 02:38:36.040 or with a bull or a goat. 2586 02:38:37.719 --> 02:38:41.639 So even the Old Testament sacrifices weren't a payment directly, 2587 02:38:41.719 --> 02:38:43.399 and that all does that in Romans, I. 2588 02:38:43.440 --> 02:38:46.559 Mean in Hebrews. Yeah, the blood of goats and bulls 2589 02:38:46.600 --> 02:38:50.200 cannot affect the forgiveness of sense. Okay, well, why can 2590 02:38:50.319 --> 02:38:53.079 the blood of the God Man do it? Because of 2591 02:38:53.680 --> 02:38:58.559 the actual metaphysical change that we experience through the Eucharist. 2592 02:39:00.360 --> 02:39:02.760 And if this is too much, just let me know. 2593 02:39:02.840 --> 02:39:05.879 But what was then the point of those Old Testament sacrifices. 2594 02:39:06.239 --> 02:39:10.159 No, they all do point to Christ's work, Okay, okay, 2595 02:39:10.200 --> 02:39:12.840 but the point is that neither the animals nor the 2596 02:39:12.959 --> 02:39:17.639 human body of Christ pays off God. You can't pay 2597 02:39:17.719 --> 02:39:21.399 off God. So what I'm saying is that the payment 2598 02:39:21.520 --> 02:39:28.040 debt model is not the exhaustive model of redemption. Okay, 2599 02:39:28.159 --> 02:39:31.920 there's no and that's why God's infinite. So look, the 2600 02:39:32.000 --> 02:39:34.760 reason they argue that is because God is infinite and perfect. 2601 02:39:36.280 --> 02:39:41.000 He doesn't need anything, so there's no need to pay 2602 02:39:41.120 --> 02:39:43.719 him off. That's why it wouldn't make sense exactly. That's 2603 02:39:43.719 --> 02:39:46.520 why it's an offering of love, and it's a demonstration 2604 02:39:46.639 --> 02:39:50.399 of divine love, not the father damning the son like 2605 02:39:50.520 --> 02:39:51.239 p s Asis. 2606 02:39:52.280 --> 02:39:54.559 Yeah, and that was one thing that you know, had 2607 02:39:55.159 --> 02:39:56.920 strayed me away from the church for a long time, 2608 02:39:57.040 --> 02:40:00.479 was I didn't understand why God would require a sacrifice, 2609 02:40:00.559 --> 02:40:01.520 much less of his own son. 2610 02:40:01.959 --> 02:40:05.079 And it says this in the book, it's atheism. It's 2611 02:40:05.120 --> 02:40:06.719 like it would it would make me an atheist too. 2612 02:40:07.440 --> 02:40:10.120 Yeah, it's it's and it's like it's almost like paganism, you. 2613 02:40:10.159 --> 02:40:13.920 Know, it is like requiring blood sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. 2614 02:40:14.000 --> 02:40:15.840 And when he wouldn't even accept it, says this in 2615 02:40:15.879 --> 02:40:17.719 the Palm's ansky book. But when he wouldn't even accept 2616 02:40:17.799 --> 02:40:22.280 Isaac from uh Abraham, I'm sorry, when he wouldn't accept 2617 02:40:22.680 --> 02:40:25.120 his son from him, why would he then accept you know, 2618 02:40:25.200 --> 02:40:26.239 that's a good point. 2619 02:40:26.360 --> 02:40:29.040 Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, good point. 2620 02:40:29.360 --> 02:40:32.079 But okay, but thank you, Jay, I appreciate great questions. 2621 02:40:34.600 --> 02:40:36.760 Yeah. Actually, that Byzantine Sonat was a huge one for 2622 02:40:36.879 --> 02:40:41.159 me and it. Also it's like literally the only like 2623 02:40:41.239 --> 02:40:44.639 it's almost like the Orthodox Church in that synod refuted 2624 02:40:44.719 --> 02:40:59.639 p s A like centuries before PSA existed. Slava, Hello, yeah, oh, hey, j. 2625 02:41:01.280 --> 02:41:02.840 I just didn't want to trupt you if you're still 2626 02:41:02.879 --> 02:41:06.600 talking anyway, I was just gonna ask you what I've 2627 02:41:06.760 --> 02:41:10.159 discussed with the Protestant. He's mentioned something and I wanted 2628 02:41:10.159 --> 02:41:12.799 to know how you would respond. He brought up the 2629 02:41:13.000 --> 02:41:19.559 urgy in the in the liturgy. Yeah, he brought up 2630 02:41:19.680 --> 02:41:23.840 theorgy like th e u r g y is the liturgy, 2631 02:41:23.959 --> 02:41:26.879 And I just wanted to know he was using it 2632 02:41:27.360 --> 02:41:30.200 in an accusatory sense, essentially saying like, oh, this is 2633 02:41:30.319 --> 02:41:32.440 borrowed from pagan practices. 2634 02:41:33.559 --> 02:41:36.200 How you respond? That's the word concept fallacy, right, So 2635 02:41:36.280 --> 02:41:42.079 just because Neoplatonic magicians use the term, uh, theurgy or 2636 02:41:42.479 --> 02:41:46.000 like we talk about saying Gregory the Fama turgis the miracle, 2637 02:41:46.079 --> 02:41:49.319 wonder worker, he's just just engaging in a word concept 2638 02:41:49.360 --> 02:41:51.920 fallacy that therefore must mean ritual magic. 2639 02:41:53.280 --> 02:41:55.639 Right Yeah, Like if someone does something doesn't make it 2640 02:41:55.680 --> 02:41:59.959 automatically bad. So, uh is it just a pretty much 2641 02:42:00.079 --> 02:42:04.479 the Orthodox except that, yeah, we are participating in theorgy 2642 02:42:04.639 --> 02:42:06.520 Is that how it would be stated or I don't 2643 02:42:06.559 --> 02:42:11.000 want to misstate the Orthodox position on that. Is it 2644 02:42:11.079 --> 02:42:13.159 just yeah, we accept theurgy as you can do it 2645 02:42:13.200 --> 02:42:14.239 in a Christian sense too. 2646 02:42:14.440 --> 02:42:17.399 Is that how you ADVERG? I mean, the terminology might 2647 02:42:17.440 --> 02:42:19.680 have been used at some point by a church father, 2648 02:42:19.799 --> 02:42:22.840 but it's not that common and it might lead to 2649 02:42:23.040 --> 02:42:27.200 a lot of confusion. So I mean it might give 2650 02:42:27.200 --> 02:42:30.479 the people impression that we're trying to be neoplatonic magicians, 2651 02:42:30.719 --> 02:42:34.760 you know, working divine workings or something. So it's just 2652 02:42:34.879 --> 02:42:37.959 literally just it's just a word that is depend upon 2653 02:42:38.000 --> 02:42:38.559 the context. 2654 02:42:39.399 --> 02:42:41.600 By the way, I think that you shared that example. 2655 02:42:42.440 --> 02:42:45.879 We were just doing fallacies in logic class and I 2656 02:42:45.959 --> 02:42:49.360 was trying to think of example of variouseing examples of 2657 02:42:49.399 --> 02:42:53.200 post hawk ergo propter hawk. That would be one that 2658 02:42:54.600 --> 02:42:58.040 simply because something was prior in time that therefore it's 2659 02:42:58.120 --> 02:43:02.879 the cause the other thing. So yeah, you can find 2660 02:43:02.959 --> 02:43:09.120 elements or words and a religion prior to the establishment 2661 02:43:09.159 --> 02:43:11.319 of the church in thirty three a G doesn't mean 2662 02:43:11.399 --> 02:43:14.520 that it's the cause of that, so thank you. 2663 02:43:16.799 --> 02:43:17.040 Cool. 2664 02:43:17.159 --> 02:43:20.399 Yeah, there's a lot of the like zeitgeist level stuff 2665 02:43:20.639 --> 02:43:23.360 is what Father Deacon's talking about they use the post 2666 02:43:23.399 --> 02:43:25.079 hoc ergo propter hawk fallacy. 2667 02:43:26.760 --> 02:43:28.200 Yeah, I totally agree with that. 2668 02:43:28.360 --> 02:43:30.319 I think that's what came to my mind too. I 2669 02:43:30.440 --> 02:43:33.159 just wanted to make sure and then I had one 2670 02:43:33.280 --> 02:43:37.399 more question, but it would is kind of escaping me 2671 02:43:37.520 --> 02:43:39.879 now someone someone who brought up the atonement. 2672 02:43:40.479 --> 02:43:41.280 I guess one thing. 2673 02:43:41.280 --> 02:43:43.079 I would just wanted to thank you for bringing up 2674 02:43:43.120 --> 02:43:46.319 this stuff about how you know, how if you have 2675 02:43:46.479 --> 02:43:50.760 Orthodox Christianity you maintain the rituals. And when I was 2676 02:43:51.319 --> 02:43:54.280 I didn't realize how important that was until I started 2677 02:43:54.319 --> 02:43:57.639 looking into it further. And uh, yeah, I totally agree 2678 02:43:57.680 --> 02:44:00.239 with you when you say, like Christian zion Is is 2679 02:44:00.280 --> 02:44:02.879 basically just like trying to fill a gap that if 2680 02:44:02.920 --> 02:44:06.280 you don't have any kind of connection to history, then 2681 02:44:06.680 --> 02:44:09.520 you're longing for that. But if you understand that the 2682 02:44:09.639 --> 02:44:13.200 Church is the true Israel and that those promises are 2683 02:44:13.280 --> 02:44:17.760 now transferred onto Christians at least in large part, you 2684 02:44:17.840 --> 02:44:20.479 know most of those promises and that's just biblical. I've 2685 02:44:20.559 --> 02:44:22.920 convinced quite a few people just pointing that out, and 2686 02:44:23.239 --> 02:44:25.239 it's kind of it's kind of hard for them to 2687 02:44:25.360 --> 02:44:29.440 disagree because it is so abundantly clear from scripture, So 2688 02:44:29.680 --> 02:44:32.840 I think that's a pretty easy thing to argue with people. 2689 02:44:33.799 --> 02:44:35.360 Lastly, I was just on the atonement thing. 2690 02:44:35.879 --> 02:44:37.639 I don't know if you've heard of need good dot net, 2691 02:44:38.120 --> 02:44:42.360 but he has a pretty like very basic tier understanding 2692 02:44:42.440 --> 02:44:45.719 of the atonement and the penal substitutionary atonement center. 2693 02:44:45.959 --> 02:44:48.399 I'm aware of them. He debated Kyle. I know who 2694 02:44:48.399 --> 02:44:50.319 he is. Oh, yeah, that's right. 2695 02:44:50.479 --> 02:44:52.760 Yeah, I thought, I mean, I know, yeah, however you 2696 02:44:52.799 --> 02:44:54.719 feel about doing debates now, but I thought it would 2697 02:44:54.719 --> 02:44:56.559 be interesting, so I thought i'd throw that out thet. 2698 02:44:56.680 --> 02:44:58.719 Yeah, I don't know if I would, I might not 2699 02:44:58.840 --> 02:44:59.840 be able to hold my t. 2700 02:45:00.200 --> 02:45:04.479 Or was that guy I kind of did the same Yeah, 2701 02:45:04.719 --> 02:45:06.760 I kind of did the same thing. And it's yeah, 2702 02:45:06.760 --> 02:45:09.000 it's it's kind of hard to because I feel like 2703 02:45:09.079 --> 02:45:11.799 it is a very like I don't know. 2704 02:45:11.959 --> 02:45:13.520 I think he has one goal. 2705 02:45:13.399 --> 02:45:15.280 Which is probably just to talk to people have no 2706 02:45:15.399 --> 02:45:19.959 idea about like Christianity, and you know they kind of well, 2707 02:45:20.040 --> 02:45:22.440 most people he reaches out like they don't have any 2708 02:45:22.559 --> 02:45:23.840 experience with Christianity. 2709 02:45:23.920 --> 02:45:26.040 So it's kind of like the debate with like Bryson 2710 02:45:26.200 --> 02:45:28.159 or that guy a couple of nights ago, Like if 2711 02:45:28.239 --> 02:45:31.399 somebody is like really low tier. It's very difficult to 2712 02:45:32.920 --> 02:45:35.639 not kind of get frustrated when they don't know basic things, 2713 02:45:36.079 --> 02:45:38.319 and they're usually those people are like super arrogant and 2714 02:45:38.360 --> 02:45:39.000 self assured. 2715 02:45:40.280 --> 02:45:40.799 Yeah it is. 2716 02:45:40.959 --> 02:45:43.440 It does come across as very prideful a lot of times. 2717 02:45:43.520 --> 02:45:45.799 It's kind of hard to like hold back from going 2718 02:45:45.879 --> 02:45:47.639 in on that. But yeah, I get what you're saying anyway, 2719 02:45:47.680 --> 02:45:48.440 that's all I got thinks. 2720 02:45:48.760 --> 02:45:53.280 Yeah, I mean, it's the same kind of with All 2721 02:45:53.360 --> 02:45:55.239 brackt Like, I don't know that I'll be able to 2722 02:45:55.399 --> 02:45:59.000 like not just start busting on him and making fun 2723 02:45:59.040 --> 02:46:01.159 of him, and he would do and all the Catholics 2724 02:46:01.200 --> 02:46:04.000 to do is play victim. Oh look at her, he 2725 02:46:04.120 --> 02:46:06.399 can't he can't even handle it. Look at he lose it, 2726 02:46:06.479 --> 02:46:09.280 so you know, and they would try, of course everything 2727 02:46:09.319 --> 02:46:14.600 to try to get me bum fuzzled. So I think 2728 02:46:14.639 --> 02:46:19.079 if you give all Bricked enough time, he'll fizzle out 2729 02:46:19.120 --> 02:46:22.680 and destroy himself, just like Lofton has basically done. Because 2730 02:46:22.719 --> 02:46:26.840 there's such nasty, slimy people, like they eventually run everybody off. 2731 02:46:27.399 --> 02:46:31.200 So so you know, Lofton is Loston's worst enemy, and 2732 02:46:32.200 --> 02:46:35.879 I just think All Brick's worse than Loston, so taking 2733 02:46:35.920 --> 02:46:57.600 time bombs bone art, I mean, can you hear me? Yeah? 2734 02:46:59.479 --> 02:46:59.799 All right. 2735 02:47:00.079 --> 02:47:03.559 I just wanted to say that the Evangelicals are like 2736 02:47:03.639 --> 02:47:08.600 the Jesuits. They're ungodly people. The Catholics don't know history correctly, 2737 02:47:09.719 --> 02:47:14.000 so that's relevant. And the Protestants actually had more slaves 2738 02:47:14.120 --> 02:47:17.440 than the Jews had slaves. That's really all I wanted 2739 02:47:17.479 --> 02:47:19.719 to say. Because you don't know what a druid is either. 2740 02:47:21.319 --> 02:47:24.799 A druid, Yeah, would you like to talk about that? 2741 02:47:26.920 --> 02:47:29.879 I know what Druidism is. I'm not an expert on it, 2742 02:47:29.959 --> 02:47:32.559 but I'm familiar with the history of Druidism. It's not 2743 02:47:32.680 --> 02:47:37.079 an ism, but yeah, I mean it's commonly referred to 2744 02:47:37.159 --> 02:47:38.559 that as that in the literature. 2745 02:47:40.360 --> 02:48:06.200 It depends who wrote that literature. Okay, that's all you 2746 02:48:06.319 --> 02:49:06.879 have to say. Well, I guess that's all folks. I 2747 02:49:06.959 --> 02:49:28.360 don't know what you say either. I can't hear a word. 2748 02:49:28.239 --> 02:49:29.319 That Jay is speaking. 2749 02:49:34.479 --> 02:49:46.600 I have zero sound. Hello. 2750 02:49:51.360 --> 02:50:03.319 It says that there's connection issues with j Did you 2751 02:50:03.479 --> 02:50:05.440 wrap your device in tinfoil