Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to another deep dive. Today. We're going
Speaker 1: to be We're going to be diving into Sun Zu's
Speaker 1: Art of War.
Speaker 2: Okay, have you ever read.
Speaker 1: The Art of War?
Speaker 2: I have read the Art of War?
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, what do you think about it?
Speaker 2: I think it's a fascinating book. It's you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's kind of amazing that something written so long ago
Speaker 2: can still be relevant today. But it really is.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's interesting because it's you know, we think
Speaker 3: of it as this book about war and battle, but
Speaker 3: really you can apply it to so many different areas
Speaker 3: of life, from like business, personal relationships, even just your
Speaker 3: own personal goals and challenges. You know.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: So for our listeners out there who maybe haven't read
Speaker 3: the Art of War maybe just need a little refresher,
Speaker 3: can you kind of give us like a quick overview,
Speaker 3: like what is this book about and why should we
Speaker 3: care about it today?
Speaker 2: Sure? So? I mean, at its core, the Art of
Speaker 2: War is a treatise on military strategy. Yeah, but what
Speaker 2: makes it so powerful is that it's really about understanding
Speaker 2: and how to navigate it successfully. And those principles, like
Speaker 2: you said, they apply just as much to a boardroom
Speaker 2: negotiation as they do to an actual battlefield. Sunsu, you know,
Speaker 2: is this brilliant Chinese general and strategist. He believed that
Speaker 2: the ultimate goal was to achieve victory without actually having
Speaker 2: to fight.
Speaker 1: Hmmm.
Speaker 2: And the way to do that, he argued, was through
Speaker 2: careful planning, understanding your opponent, and really mastering your own mind.
Speaker 3: Okay, So it sounds like it's as much about self
Speaker 3: mastery as it is about, you know, outmaneuvering your opponent exactly.
Speaker 3: So how does that actually work in practice? Like, can
Speaker 3: you give me an example of a principle from the
Speaker 3: Art of war that people can use in their everyday lives.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So. One of my favorite principles is, and
Speaker 2: this is one that I think really resonates with people today,
Speaker 2: is this idea that every battle is won before it
Speaker 2: is fought, Okay. And what Sinsu meant by that was
Speaker 2: that preparation is key. That if you've done the work
Speaker 2: up front, if you've anticipated the challenges, if you've thought
Speaker 2: through your strategy, you're already way ahead of the game.
Speaker 1: So it's not just about reacting to things as they
Speaker 1: come up.
Speaker 3: It's about being proactive, thinking ahead, having a plan, exactly.
Speaker 2: I like that. And you know this applies to so
Speaker 2: many different areas of life, right, Like, if you're going
Speaker 2: into a job interview, you don't just want to wing
Speaker 2: it right. You want to research the company, practice your
Speaker 2: answers to combin interview questions, really put your best foot forward.
Speaker 1: It's like that old saying, failing to prepare is preparing
Speaker 1: to fail.
Speaker 3: Exactly, but sin so he takes it a step further, Right,
Speaker 3: He's not just talking about avoiding failure.
Speaker 1: He's talking about setting yourself.
Speaker 2: Up to win absolutely. And that's a really important distinction
Speaker 2: because you know a lot of times people they get
Speaker 2: so caught up and just trying to avoid making mistakes
Speaker 2: that they miss opportunities to really excel.
Speaker 1: So it's about being strategic, being intentional, not just trying
Speaker 1: to get by.
Speaker 3: So we've got this idea of preparation being key. What else,
Speaker 3: what other nuggets of wisdom does sense you have for us?
Speaker 2: Well, another really important principle, and this one kind of
Speaker 2: builds on the idea of preparation, is this concept of adaptability. Okay,
Speaker 2: some suit he understood that no battle plan survives contact
Speaker 2: with the enemy. In other words, no matter how well
Speaker 2: you plan. Things are going to change, right the unexpected.
Speaker 2: It's going to happen, and when it does, you need
Speaker 2: to be able to adapt.
Speaker 1: So it's not just about having a plan A. It's
Speaker 1: about having a plan.
Speaker 2: B, C, and D exactly, or even being willing to
Speaker 2: throw out the plan altogether if the situation calls for it.
Speaker 3: So, how do you cultivate that adaptability? Like, how do
Speaker 3: you become someone who roll with the punches, so to speak?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it starts with being comfortable with uncertainty. Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, in today's world, we're so used to having
Speaker 2: all the answers at our fingertips. We want instant gratification,
Speaker 2: we want immediate results. But the reality is that life
Speaker 2: is messy. Things don't always go according to plan. And
Speaker 2: if you can embrace that uncertainty, if you can learn
Speaker 2: to be okay with not knowing everything, you'll be much
Speaker 2: better equipped to handle whatever life throws your way.
Speaker 3: It's like that quote, the only constant is change exactly.
Speaker 3: So we've got preparation, we've got adaptability.
Speaker 2: What else, Well, another really important principle from the art
Speaker 2: of war, and this one's all about self awareness, is
Speaker 2: this idea that if you know the enemy and know yourself.
Speaker 2: You need not fear the result of one hundred battles.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we're adding self awareness to the mix.
Speaker 2: Now, exactly because Sanzu he understood that, you know, the
Speaker 2: greatest battles we face are often with ourselves.
Speaker 1: That's deep, right, our.
Speaker 2: Own fears, our own doubts, our own insecurities, and if
Speaker 2: we can't overcome those internal obstacles, we'll never be able
Speaker 2: to achieve victory in the external world.
Speaker 1: So how do we do that?
Speaker 3: How do we know ourselves in a way that helps
Speaker 3: us win those internal battles.
Speaker 2: That's what we'll delve into next. So knowing yourself in
Speaker 2: the context of the art of war, it really means,
Speaker 2: you know, it's about understanding, Yeah, understanding your strengths and
Speaker 2: your weaknesses. Okay, it's about being honest with yourself about
Speaker 2: like what you're good at and where you might need
Speaker 2: to you know, shore things up a.
Speaker 3: Bit, right, So it's not enough to just focus on
Speaker 3: our strengths. We also need to acknowledge our weaknesses exactly.
Speaker 2: In fact, you know, sense would argue that ignoring our
Speaker 2: weaknesses that actually makes us more vulnerable, because if we
Speaker 2: don't know what our weaknesses are, we can't prepare for them,
Speaker 2: we can't find ways to mitigate them or work around them.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 3: It's like, if you know you have a tendency to say,
Speaker 3: procrastinate on big projects, right, you can then take steps
Speaker 3: to like break the project down into smaller chunks, or
Speaker 3: set deadlines for yourself, or or even just ask for
Speaker 3: help if you need it right exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's actually a really good point because sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: knowing yourself means knowing when to bring in reinforcements.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like knowing when to ask for help apps or
Speaker 3: delegate tasks or just yeah, admit that you don't have
Speaker 3: all the answers right, And that.
Speaker 2: Could be tough for some people, Oh yeah, especially in
Speaker 2: a culture that often values you know, self reliance and independence.
Speaker 3: Right, it's like we're supposed to have it all figured
Speaker 3: out all the time, exactly.
Speaker 2: But suns He understood that nobody's perfect. Everyone has their
Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses, and the key to success is knowing
Speaker 2: what yours are and then assembling a team or you know,
Speaker 2: even just surrounding yourself with people who can compliment your
Speaker 2: skills and help you fill in those gaps.
Speaker 1: It's like that old saying teamwork makes the dream work.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And it all starts with that self awareness, knowing
Speaker 2: what you're good at, knowing what you're not.
Speaker 3: So good at, and then using that knowledge to make
Speaker 3: strategic decisions about yeah, who you work with, how you
Speaker 3: approach challenges, that kind of thing, pcisely. So we've got
Speaker 3: preparation and adaptability, self awareness, what else what other gems
Speaker 3: of wisdom does since you.
Speaker 1: Have for us?
Speaker 2: Well? He was also a big believer in this and
Speaker 2: the importance of patience and timing. He wrote, and this
Speaker 2: is one of my favorite quotes from the Art of War.
Speaker 2: He said, he will win who knows when to fight
Speaker 2: and when not to fight.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 3: That's interesting, right, because it's it's kind of counterintuitive, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It is like, especially in today's world, we're constantly being
Speaker 3: told to hustle, to go after what we want, to.
Speaker 2: Never give up, right, you know, Tarba adm and all.
Speaker 3: That exactly, So how do we reconcile that with this
Speaker 3: idea of waiting for the right moment, of knowing when
Speaker 3: to hold back.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it goes back to that self awareness
Speaker 2: piece we were just talking about Okay. You know, if
Speaker 2: you know yourself well, if you understand your own strengths
Speaker 2: and weaknesses, you'll have a better sense of when you're
Speaker 2: in a position of strength and when you're not right
Speaker 2: and if you're not in a position of strength. Sometimes
Speaker 2: the best course of action is to wait, to bide
Speaker 2: your time, to gather more information, to prepare yourself so
Speaker 2: that when the opportunity does arise, you're ready to seize it.
Speaker 1: It's like that saying patience is a.
Speaker 2: Virtue, exactly, and it's a virtue that's often in short
Speaker 2: supply these days.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, it's so easy to get caught up
Speaker 3: in the rush, the urgency of everything it is. But sometimes,
Speaker 3: you know, the most strategic move is to slow down,
Speaker 3: to take a step back, to really assess the situation
Speaker 3: before you make a move.
Speaker 2: I agree, because you know, sometimes the most important action
Speaker 2: you can take is no action at all.
Speaker 1: Hmmm. That's a good one, right.
Speaker 3: So it's not just about knowing what to do, it's
Speaker 3: about knowing when to do it, exactly.
Speaker 2: It's about timing. It's about finding that sweet spot, that
Speaker 2: perfect moment when all the elements are aligned.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 3: So we've got preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing, what else.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're building up quite the arsenal here.
Speaker 2: Well. Sinsu also had a lot to say about obstacles, okay, which,
Speaker 2: let's face it, are inevitable in life.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he can definitely say that again.
Speaker 2: And one of his most famous quotes, and this one
Speaker 2: might seem a little bit cryptic at first, okay, but
Speaker 2: it's really quite profound when you think about it. He said,
Speaker 2: the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the
Speaker 2: enemy himself.
Speaker 3: Hmm okay, yeah, that one does sound a little cryptic,
Speaker 3: it does, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: So break it down for me what does that mean?
Speaker 2: So essentially that what Sansu is saying here is that
Speaker 2: every obstacle, every challenge we face, contains within it the
Speaker 2: seeds of its own solution. Okay, It's like the obstacle
Speaker 2: itself is giving us the tools we need to overcome it,
Speaker 2: even if we can't see those tools right away.
Speaker 1: So it's like a riddle we have to solve in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's about shifting our perspective. Instead of seeing an
Speaker 2: obstacle is a dead end, we need to look for
Speaker 2: the opportunity that's embedded within it.
Speaker 1: So give me an example, like, how does this play
Speaker 1: out in real life?
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's say you're working on a project at
Speaker 2: work and you hit a major roadblock, like you're completely stuck.
Speaker 2: You have no idea how to move forward in there, right,
Speaker 2: So most people they would see that roadblock and they
Speaker 2: would panic.
Speaker 1: Right or get discouraged exactly.
Speaker 2: Yea. But sunso he would say, Okay, what can we
Speaker 2: learn from this obstacle? What is it teaching us? How
Speaker 2: can we use this to our advantage. That's a good point, right,
Speaker 2: So maybe that roadblock you to learn a new skill, okay,
Speaker 2: or to reach out to someone you wouldn't normally collaborate with,
Speaker 2: or to think outside the box and come up with
Speaker 2: a completely new approach to the problem.
Speaker 3: So the obstacle itself becomes the catalyst for growth and
Speaker 3: innovation exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's why Sun Sou says that the opportunity of
Speaker 2: defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself, because
Speaker 2: it's often through facing and overcoming challenges that we discover
Speaker 2: our true potential.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 3: It's like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, precisely,
Speaker 3: so are you saying that we should actually be grateful
Speaker 3: for obstacles.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if we need to go that far, okay,
Speaker 2: but I do think that we can choose to see
Speaker 2: obstacles as opportunities for growth.
Speaker 1: Right. It's all about perspective exactly.
Speaker 3: So we've talked about preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing,
Speaker 3: the importance of seeing obstacles as opportunities.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else.
Speaker 3: We need to know to become like Sunsoo Masters of
Speaker 3: the Universe.
Speaker 2: Well, there's one more principle from the art of war
Speaker 2: that I think is really important.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm all ears.
Speaker 2: And it's this. Sunsu He believed very strongly in the
Speaker 2: power of collaboration.
Speaker 1: Oh, collaboration, right.
Speaker 2: And this might seem a little bit counterintuitive, okay, you know,
Speaker 2: given that we're talking about the art of war, right,
Speaker 2: but Sunsu He understood that the most effective leaders they
Speaker 2: don't try to do everything themselves, right makes sense. They
Speaker 2: surround themselves with skilled individuals and they delegate tasks strategically.
Speaker 1: So it's about building a strong team basically.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and recognizing that, you know, sometimes the best way
Speaker 2: to overcome an obstacle it isn't to just you know,
Speaker 2: put your head down and try to bulldoze through it alone. Right,
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's about seeking out the expertise of others. It's
Speaker 2: about knowing when to ask for help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's something that a lot of
Speaker 1: people struggle with.
Speaker 3: You know. It's like we're so conditioned to think that
Speaker 3: we have to do everything ourselves, that asking for help
Speaker 3: is a sign of weakness, right, But really it's.
Speaker 1: The opposite, isn't it. It is it takes strength to
Speaker 1: admit that you don't have all the answers.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know, it takes humility, It takes a
Speaker 2: willingness to learn from others, right, And I think you
Speaker 2: know that's something that sons who really understood okay, that
Speaker 2: you know, none of us are as smart as all
Speaker 2: of us. I like that, right, And that if we
Speaker 2: can learn to collaborate effectively to leverage the strengths of
Speaker 2: those around us, then we can achieve, you know, far
Speaker 2: more than we ever could.
Speaker 1: On our own.
Speaker 3: Teamwork makes the dream work exactly. So we've covered a
Speaker 3: lot of ground here today. We have preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing,
Speaker 3: seeing obstacles as opportunities collaboration.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: It is. It's like a whole toolbox for navigating life's challenges.
Speaker 1: It is. It's like Sunsu was like the original life coach.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: So as we wrap up here, is there is there.
Speaker 3: One final thought, one one final nugget of wisdom that
Speaker 3: you want to leave our listeners with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I think the biggest takeaway
Speaker 2: from the Art of War, and really from all of
Speaker 2: sons whose teachings is that, is that ultimately, victory is
Speaker 2: a state of mind. It's about cultivating the right mindset.
Speaker 2: It's about developing the mental and emotional resilience to overcome
Speaker 2: any obstacle, to achieve any goal. And you know, it's
Speaker 2: about remembering that you know, the battles we face they
Speaker 2: may change over time, but the principles for winning them,
Speaker 2: those are timeless.
Speaker 1: I love that. That is a great note to end on.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: This has been a really, really fascinating deep dive. It
Speaker 3: has I feel like I've learned a lot. We too,
Speaker 3: and I hope our listeners out there have as well.
Speaker 3: So thank you all for joining us on this deep
Speaker 3: dive into the art of war. And we will see
Speaker 3: you next time,