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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, welcome to another deep dive. Today. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be We're going to be diving into Sun Zu's

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<v Speaker 1>Art of War.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, have you ever read.

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<v Speaker 1>The Art of War?

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<v Speaker 2>I have read the Art of War?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Well, what do you think about it?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a fascinating book. It's you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of amazing that something written so long ago

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<v Speaker 2>can still be relevant today. But it really is.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's interesting because it's you know, we think

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<v Speaker 3>of it as this book about war and battle, but

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<v Speaker 3>really you can apply it to so many different areas

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<v Speaker 3>of life, from like business, personal relationships, even just your

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<v Speaker 3>own personal goals and challenges. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 3>So for our listeners out there who maybe haven't read

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<v Speaker 3>the Art of War maybe just need a little refresher,

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<v Speaker 3>can you kind of give us like a quick overview,

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<v Speaker 3>like what is this book about and why should we

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<v Speaker 3>care about it today?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? So? I mean, at its core, the Art of

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<v Speaker 2>War is a treatise on military strategy. Yeah, but what

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<v Speaker 2>makes it so powerful is that it's really about understanding

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<v Speaker 2>and how to navigate it successfully. And those principles, like

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<v Speaker 2>you said, they apply just as much to a boardroom

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<v Speaker 2>negotiation as they do to an actual battlefield. Sunsu, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is this brilliant Chinese general and strategist. He believed that

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<v Speaker 2>the ultimate goal was to achieve victory without actually having

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<v Speaker 2>to fight.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmmm.

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<v Speaker 2>And the way to do that, he argued, was through

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<v Speaker 2>careful planning, understanding your opponent, and really mastering your own mind.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So it sounds like it's as much about self

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<v Speaker 3>mastery as it is about, you know, outmaneuvering your opponent exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So how does that actually work in practice? Like, can

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<v Speaker 3>you give me an example of a principle from the

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<v Speaker 3>Art of war that people can use in their everyday lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, So. One of my favorite principles is, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is one that I think really resonates with people today,

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<v Speaker 2>is this idea that every battle is won before it

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<v Speaker 2>is fought, Okay. And what Sinsu meant by that was

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<v Speaker 2>that preparation is key. That if you've done the work

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<v Speaker 2>up front, if you've anticipated the challenges, if you've thought

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<v Speaker 2>through your strategy, you're already way ahead of the game.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about reacting to things as they

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<v Speaker 1>come up.

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<v Speaker 3>It's about being proactive, thinking ahead, having a plan, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>I like that. And you know this applies to so

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<v Speaker 2>many different areas of life, right, Like, if you're going

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<v Speaker 2>into a job interview, you don't just want to wing

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<v Speaker 2>it right. You want to research the company, practice your

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<v Speaker 2>answers to combin interview questions, really put your best foot forward.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like that old saying, failing to prepare is preparing

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<v Speaker 1>to fail.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, but sin so he takes it a step further, Right,

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<v Speaker 3>He's not just talking about avoiding failure.

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<v Speaker 1>He's talking about setting yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>Up to win absolutely. And that's a really important distinction

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<v Speaker 2>because you know a lot of times people they get

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<v Speaker 2>so caught up and just trying to avoid making mistakes

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<v Speaker 2>that they miss opportunities to really excel.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about being strategic, being intentional, not just trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get by.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've got this idea of preparation being key. What else,

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<v Speaker 3>what other nuggets of wisdom does sense you have for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, another really important principle, and this one kind of

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<v Speaker 2>builds on the idea of preparation, is this concept of adaptability. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>some suit he understood that no battle plan survives contact

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<v Speaker 2>with the enemy. In other words, no matter how well

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<v Speaker 2>you plan. Things are going to change, right the unexpected.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to happen, and when it does, you need

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to adapt.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about having a plan A. It's

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<v Speaker 1>about having a plan.

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<v Speaker 2>B, C, and D exactly, or even being willing to

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<v Speaker 2>throw out the plan altogether if the situation calls for it.

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<v Speaker 3>So, how do you cultivate that adaptability? Like, how do

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<v Speaker 3>you become someone who roll with the punches, so to speak?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it starts with being comfortable with uncertainty. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in today's world, we're so used to having

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<v Speaker 2>all the answers at our fingertips. We want instant gratification,

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<v Speaker 2>we want immediate results. But the reality is that life

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<v Speaker 2>is messy. Things don't always go according to plan. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you can embrace that uncertainty, if you can learn

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<v Speaker 2>to be okay with not knowing everything, you'll be much

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<v Speaker 2>better equipped to handle whatever life throws your way.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like that quote, the only constant is change exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've got preparation, we've got adaptability.

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<v Speaker 2>What else, Well, another really important principle from the art

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<v Speaker 2>of war, and this one's all about self awareness, is

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<v Speaker 2>this idea that if you know the enemy and know yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>You need not fear the result of one hundred battles.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So we're adding self awareness to the mix.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, exactly because Sanzu he understood that, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>greatest battles we face are often with ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>That's deep, right, our.

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<v Speaker 2>Own fears, our own doubts, our own insecurities, and if

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<v Speaker 2>we can't overcome those internal obstacles, we'll never be able

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<v Speaker 2>to achieve victory in the external world.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we do that?

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<v Speaker 3>How do we know ourselves in a way that helps

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<v Speaker 3>us win those internal battles.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what we'll delve into next. So knowing yourself in

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<v Speaker 2>the context of the art of war, it really means,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's about understanding, Yeah, understanding your strengths and

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<v Speaker 2>your weaknesses. Okay, it's about being honest with yourself about

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<v Speaker 2>like what you're good at and where you might need

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, shore things up a.

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<v Speaker 3>Bit, right, So it's not enough to just focus on

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<v Speaker 3>our strengths. We also need to acknowledge our weaknesses exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, you know, sense would argue that ignoring our

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<v Speaker 2>weaknesses that actually makes us more vulnerable, because if we

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what our weaknesses are, we can't prepare for them,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't find ways to mitigate them or work around them.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes sense.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, if you know you have a tendency to say,

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<v Speaker 3>procrastinate on big projects, right, you can then take steps

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<v Speaker 3>to like break the project down into smaller chunks, or

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<v Speaker 3>set deadlines for yourself, or or even just ask for

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<v Speaker 3>help if you need it right exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's actually a really good point because sometimes, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>knowing yourself means knowing when to bring in reinforcements.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like knowing when to ask for help apps or

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<v Speaker 3>delegate tasks or just yeah, admit that you don't have

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<v Speaker 3>all the answers right, And that.

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<v Speaker 2>Could be tough for some people, Oh yeah, especially in

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<v Speaker 2>a culture that often values you know, self reliance and independence.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, it's like we're supposed to have it all figured

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<v Speaker 3>out all the time, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But suns He understood that nobody's perfect. Everyone has their

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<v Speaker 2>strengths and weaknesses, and the key to success is knowing

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<v Speaker 2>what yours are and then assembling a team or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>even just surrounding yourself with people who can compliment your

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<v Speaker 2>skills and help you fill in those gaps.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like that old saying teamwork makes the dream work.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, And it all starts with that self awareness, knowing

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<v Speaker 2>what you're good at, knowing what you're not.

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<v Speaker 3>So good at, and then using that knowledge to make

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<v Speaker 3>strategic decisions about yeah, who you work with, how you

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<v Speaker 3>approach challenges, that kind of thing, pcisely. So we've got

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<v Speaker 3>preparation and adaptability, self awareness, what else what other gems

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<v Speaker 3>of wisdom does since you.

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<v Speaker 1>Have for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? He was also a big believer in this and

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<v Speaker 2>the importance of patience and timing. He wrote, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is one of my favorite quotes from the Art of War.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, he will win who knows when to fight

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<v Speaker 2>and when not to fight.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 3>That's interesting, right, because it's it's kind of counterintuitive, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>It is like, especially in today's world, we're constantly being

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<v Speaker 3>told to hustle, to go after what we want, to.

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<v Speaker 2>Never give up, right, you know, Tarba adm and all.

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<v Speaker 3>That exactly, So how do we reconcile that with this

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<v Speaker 3>idea of waiting for the right moment, of knowing when

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<v Speaker 3>to hold back.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it goes back to that self awareness

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<v Speaker 2>piece we were just talking about Okay. You know, if

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<v Speaker 2>you know yourself well, if you understand your own strengths

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<v Speaker 2>and weaknesses, you'll have a better sense of when you're

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<v Speaker 2>in a position of strength and when you're not right

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<v Speaker 2>and if you're not in a position of strength. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>the best course of action is to wait, to bide

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<v Speaker 2>your time, to gather more information, to prepare yourself so

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<v Speaker 2>that when the opportunity does arise, you're ready to seize it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like that saying patience is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Virtue, exactly, and it's a virtue that's often in short

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<v Speaker 2>supply these days.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for sure, it's so easy to get caught up

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<v Speaker 3>in the rush, the urgency of everything it is. But sometimes,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the most strategic move is to slow down,

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<v Speaker 3>to take a step back, to really assess the situation

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<v Speaker 3>before you make a move.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree, because you know, sometimes the most important action

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<v Speaker 2>you can take is no action at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmmm. That's a good one, right.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's not just about knowing what to do, it's

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<v Speaker 3>about knowing when to do it, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about timing. It's about finding that sweet spot, that

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<v Speaker 2>perfect moment when all the elements are aligned.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've got preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing, what else.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like we're building up quite the arsenal here.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Sinsu also had a lot to say about obstacles, okay, which,

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<v Speaker 2>let's face it, are inevitable in life.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, he can definitely say that again.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of his most famous quotes, and this one

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<v Speaker 2>might seem a little bit cryptic at first, okay, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's really quite profound when you think about it. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the

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<v Speaker 2>enemy himself.

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<v Speaker 3>Hmm okay, yeah, that one does sound a little cryptic,

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<v Speaker 3>it does, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>So break it down for me what does that mean?

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<v Speaker 2>So essentially that what Sansu is saying here is that

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<v Speaker 2>every obstacle, every challenge we face, contains within it the

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<v Speaker 2>seeds of its own solution. Okay, It's like the obstacle

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<v Speaker 2>itself is giving us the tools we need to overcome it,

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<v Speaker 2>even if we can't see those tools right away.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like a riddle we have to solve in

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<v Speaker 1>a way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's about shifting our perspective. Instead of seeing an

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<v Speaker 2>obstacle is a dead end, we need to look for

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<v Speaker 2>the opportunity that's embedded within it.

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<v Speaker 1>So give me an example, like, how does this play

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<v Speaker 1>out in real life?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So let's say you're working on a project at

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<v Speaker 2>work and you hit a major roadblock, like you're completely stuck.

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<v Speaker 2>You have no idea how to move forward in there, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So most people they would see that roadblock and they

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<v Speaker 2>would panic.

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<v Speaker 1>Right or get discouraged exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea. But sunso he would say, Okay, what can we

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<v Speaker 2>learn from this obstacle? What is it teaching us? How

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<v Speaker 2>can we use this to our advantage. That's a good point, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So maybe that roadblock you to learn a new skill, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>or to reach out to someone you wouldn't normally collaborate with,

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<v Speaker 2>or to think outside the box and come up with

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<v Speaker 2>a completely new approach to the problem.

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<v Speaker 3>So the obstacle itself becomes the catalyst for growth and

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<v Speaker 3>innovation exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's why Sun Sou says that the opportunity of

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<v Speaker 2>defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's often through facing and overcoming challenges that we discover

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<v Speaker 2>our true potential.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, precisely,

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<v Speaker 3>so are you saying that we should actually be grateful

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<v Speaker 3>for obstacles.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if we need to go that far, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but I do think that we can choose to see

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<v Speaker 2>obstacles as opportunities for growth.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. It's all about perspective exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've talked about preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing,

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<v Speaker 3>the importance of seeing obstacles as opportunities.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anything else.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to know to become like Sunsoo Masters of

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<v Speaker 3>the Universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's one more principle from the art of war

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<v Speaker 2>that I think is really important.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm all ears.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's this. Sunsu He believed very strongly in the

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<v Speaker 2>power of collaboration.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, collaboration, right.

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<v Speaker 2>And this might seem a little bit counterintuitive, okay, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>given that we're talking about the art of war, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but Sunsu He understood that the most effective leaders they

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<v Speaker 2>don't try to do everything themselves, right makes sense. They

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<v Speaker 2>surround themselves with skilled individuals and they delegate tasks strategically.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about building a strong team basically.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and recognizing that, you know, sometimes the best way

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<v Speaker 2>to overcome an obstacle it isn't to just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>put your head down and try to bulldoze through it alone. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's about seeking out the expertise of others. It's

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<v Speaker 2>about knowing when to ask for help.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that's something that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people struggle with.

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<v Speaker 3>You know. It's like we're so conditioned to think that

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<v Speaker 3>we have to do everything ourselves, that asking for help

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<v Speaker 3>is a sign of weakness, right, But really it's.

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<v Speaker 1>The opposite, isn't it. It is it takes strength to

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<v Speaker 1>admit that you don't have all the answers.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and you know, it takes humility, It takes a

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<v Speaker 2>willingness to learn from others, right, And I think you

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<v Speaker 2>know that's something that sons who really understood okay, that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, none of us are as smart as all

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<v Speaker 2>of us. I like that, right, And that if we

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<v Speaker 2>can learn to collaborate effectively to leverage the strengths of

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<v Speaker 2>those around us, then we can achieve, you know, far

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<v Speaker 2>more than we ever could.

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<v Speaker 1>On our own.

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<v Speaker 3>Teamwork makes the dream work exactly. So we've covered a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of ground here today. We have preparation, adaptability, self awareness, patience, timing,

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<v Speaker 3>seeing obstacles as opportunities collaboration.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. It's like a whole toolbox for navigating life's challenges.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. It's like Sunsu was like the original life coach.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go.

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<v Speaker 1>So as we wrap up here, is there is there.

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<v Speaker 3>One final thought, one one final nugget of wisdom that

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<v Speaker 3>you want to leave our listeners with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I think I think the biggest takeaway

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<v Speaker 2>from the Art of War, and really from all of

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<v Speaker 2>sons whose teachings is that, is that ultimately, victory is

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<v Speaker 2>a state of mind. It's about cultivating the right mindset.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about developing the mental and emotional resilience to overcome

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<v Speaker 2>any obstacle, to achieve any goal. And you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>about remembering that you know, the battles we face they

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<v Speaker 2>may change over time, but the principles for winning them,

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<v Speaker 2>those are timeless.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. That is a great note to end on.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>This has been a really, really fascinating deep dive. It

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<v Speaker 3>has I feel like I've learned a lot. We too,

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<v Speaker 3>and I hope our listeners out there have as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So thank you all for joining us on this deep

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<v Speaker 3>dive into the art of war. And we will see

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<v Speaker 3>you next time,