Speaker 1: Calling All Beings, y'all. Yeah, welcome back to Calling All Beings.
Speaker 1: I'm your host DJ. Super duper excited because my brother,
Speaker 1: Sergeant Peter Murphy decided to come on and explore this
Speaker 1: thought experiment that I did last night. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: to explore that with the professional What would have happened
Speaker 1: if the police rolled up on thirty four Fairview and
Speaker 1: it was a random citizen's home of whom they were
Speaker 1: not familiar. That is what's going on. That is the
Speaker 1: purpose of this episode. And thankfully I talked to this
Speaker 1: gentleman this evening. Hello, Phoebe. You know we're gonna say
Speaker 1: hid everybody in the chat, but so let me just
Speaker 1: say hello before we bring on our special guests. He
Speaker 1: was at a standout for Karen Reid today up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have Hey, what's up, Miss Shorty? Gonna be
Speaker 1: on this show Saturday with True Crime Kangaroo, Sean McDonough,
Speaker 1: Nurse Kim Mas a meeting. We're gonna get into it.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to Hi, Ah from Charleston, South Carolina.
Speaker 1: What's up, Marjorie, Ernie, Ernie Birdie, How are you welcome? Queen?
Speaker 1: I welcome some of you. Pilgrim I saw Pilgrim in
Speaker 1: there anyway, welcome everybody. And so I talked to this
Speaker 1: gentleman today and I asked him if he would go
Speaker 1: through this thought experiment with and it'll be It'll be
Speaker 1: edifying for both me and you because I'll find out
Speaker 1: if what I suppose is correct, and hey, Julie, and
Speaker 1: I will find out if what I thought was not correct,
Speaker 1: because Peter knows what would have happened if police rolled
Speaker 1: up to thirty four Fairview and this was a random citizen.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a quick show. We will be
Speaker 1: finished and done within one hour tonight. We know that
Speaker 1: our brother Mike Crawford of the Young Jerks is gonna
Speaker 1: be on, Hey what's up? Never forget nine one one,
Speaker 1: That's what's up homegirl. I don't know if you're a
Speaker 1: New Yorker or not. I am, and so I don't
Speaker 1: know how long they're going. We're only going to go
Speaker 1: an hour. But Mark Bedrow, our friend, Peter's friend, my friend,
Speaker 1: and the Young Jerks are going to be on around
Speaker 1: the same time. Hey what's up? Scott? Welcome back. So
Speaker 1: so with that, let's get started with Peter, we'll get
Speaker 1: into it. We're gonna be done within an hour, and
Speaker 1: then we'll be tuning into the young jerks as well.
Speaker 1: So without further ado.
Speaker 2: Party people put those hands together for retired can'ton p
Speaker 2: D Sergeant Peter Murphy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, thank you, DJA, thank the fans. I
Speaker 3: could I could hear it all in the background.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, where's my hold on? I got some applause
Speaker 1: here somewhere. Where's my applause?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Here it is, it's down the end. Okay here Sergeant
Speaker 1: Peter Murphy. Alright, all right, all right, thank you, Thank you, Peter.
Speaker 1: So you heard you and I talked about young jerksys
Speaker 1: tomorrow night. Oh okay, if young jerksy is tomorrow night,
Speaker 1: then here we are tonight. I thought they were. I
Speaker 1: thought it was tonight. I think the young jerks. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So you're a mod obviously, Thank you, Miss Shorty. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it, love, and I'm really looking forward to hearing
Speaker 1: your views. Oh just to let you know for the roundtable,
Speaker 1: since Miss Shorty is listening, So the cab round table,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to start. Thank you, Phoebe PHOEBMC. What
Speaker 1: the Cab round table. Is this. You come to the
Speaker 1: round table with either a topic, a question, or a
Speaker 1: hypothesis one of those three. What you bring will be
Speaker 1: you will present your topic, hypothesis or question to the group,
Speaker 1: will go in a circular format and everyone will have
Speaker 1: a chance to react to what your topic is, and
Speaker 1: then we'll move on to the next person. They'll present
Speaker 1: their topic. So then we'll have a free for all
Speaker 1: after that. But to start off with, everyone will bring
Speaker 1: a topic, question, or hypothesis to the round table. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that's so, Missorty, be prepared to have a topic that
Speaker 1: you want everybody to address. Anyway, let's get it kicked off, Peter. So,
Speaker 1: my brother, we spoke today. Uh, let me Peter and
Speaker 1: Sergeant Murphy. I'm I'm ready for my uniform inspection. So
Speaker 1: so we spoke today, Peter about what this thought experiment
Speaker 1: is that I did by myself. Hey, Lily's in the house.
Speaker 1: That's our other another one of our guests for next
Speaker 1: Saturday to come to Garo Lily. Anyway, So, Peter, what
Speaker 1: we spoke about was if we were to assume that
Speaker 1: John O'Keeffe and I think it's fairly objective at this
Speaker 1: point that John O'Keeffe was called out for a fight,
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to look like a woos for
Speaker 1: lack of a more descriptive term, that some people associate
Speaker 1: with felines, and therefore he wanted to tell Karen to
Speaker 1: take him over to that house so that he could
Speaker 1: show that he wasn't afraid that I think with the
Speaker 1: finger point and the text message, the subsequent text message,
Speaker 1: I think it's fairly clear that he didn't go over
Speaker 1: He wasn't hanging out with those guys with the I
Speaker 1: know we love this Charney. Yeah, definitely, Julie, I think
Speaker 1: it's fairly clear that he didn't go over there. He
Speaker 1: wasn't hanging out with them with the bar. He certainly
Speaker 1: didn't want to spend his free time with those guys.
Speaker 1: He went over there for one reason, and that was
Speaker 1: to show that he wasn't afraid to turn up there.
Speaker 1: So now with that, in the morning, his body is
Speaker 1: found by Karen Reid and Carrie Roberts and Jen McCabe
Speaker 1: and then nine one ones called and then we have
Speaker 1: fire ems and police show up. So if they didn't
Speaker 1: know the owner of the home and they had to
Speaker 1: call and find out, or someone had to tell them, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the owner of the home is person X, who is
Speaker 1: not a police officer, nor was for the purposes of
Speaker 1: this discussion. The other person in the house who is
Speaker 1: alleged to have been involved in this, Brian Higgins, also
Speaker 1: was not a dah in our law enforcement in any way.
Speaker 1: So with that take it away, what happens next?
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think initially if we go to
Speaker 3: really the start of the whole incident, which would have
Speaker 3: been the nine to one one call, I would imagine
Speaker 3: that the police dispatcher and or FD hearing.
Speaker 4: The very bloodshilling, ice cold verbiage from Jen McCabe about
Speaker 4: a body man on the lawn.
Speaker 3: You know, it turned out we know the connection there,
Speaker 3: but just saying a man on the lawn. I took
Speaker 3: a lot of nine one one calls over the thirty
Speaker 3: years that I worked, Well, we didn't have nine to
Speaker 3: one one for thirty years, but a lot of calls,
Speaker 3: emergency calls. And I don't think I ever took even
Speaker 3: just a scratch or a boo boo on the knee.
Speaker 3: Never did I ever hear such a cold, almost calculating
Speaker 3: verbiage about a guy laying on a lawn. I just
Speaker 3: so anyway it started there. If I was probably working,
Speaker 3: I would have dispatched the whole shift, which probably at
Speaker 3: the time was four offices on the street, which unfortunately
Speaker 3: at the time and they still my canton runs a
Speaker 3: little lean, so they have four offices on the street.
Speaker 3: They do not have a desk patrolman. They have a
Speaker 3: desk sergeant. So the sergeant is committed to the desk,
Speaker 3: takes the calls for the most part on the midnight
Speaker 3: alone and dispatches and if there's a serious incident or
Speaker 3: a need from patrolman requesting a supervisor. Now you're to
Speaker 3: pull one of the patrolling off the street, leave a sector.
Speaker 3: There's four sectors in town DJ leave a sector open,
Speaker 3: bring a patrolling in off the street, and then you
Speaker 3: suit up and start to roll in the direction of
Speaker 3: whatever area or sector you needed in. So's there's a
Speaker 3: time to lay there. But I think the you know,
Speaker 3: I think the average person police officer, skill set trained,
Speaker 3: would have said, what the hell is going on with
Speaker 3: that phone call? There's a guy laying on the lawn.
Speaker 3: It just didn't have the emotional, sensational, you know, feeling
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, can I use a word. Can I use
Speaker 1: a word because it was also was in trial when
Speaker 1: they spoke of Chloe the dog. It was disassociative. She
Speaker 1: wanted to disassociate, just like Brian Albert kept referring to
Speaker 1: Chloe is it. And I don't know a person that
Speaker 1: has a dog that even likes them a little bit
Speaker 1: that refers to their dog as an it. It's either
Speaker 1: a him or her. It's very disassociative, Jennifer's terminology, right.
Speaker 3: So you know, again, logistically starting at the first base
Speaker 3: at ground zero here, that would that would raise some eyebrows,
Speaker 3: I think to the average person taking the call, especially,
Speaker 3: I believe a sogeant who took that call, working from there.
Speaker 3: First police officer on scene would have and should have
Speaker 3: probably taken information from the three women on scene. One
Speaker 3: of them was hysterical and out of the car. Another
Speaker 3: one I believe was out of the car I was
Speaker 3: Kerry Robinson. I think jen was still in the car
Speaker 3: making some phone calls. And anyway, I think at that
Speaker 3: point the officer on sen should have been able garnish
Speaker 3: enough information that he or she would have been able
Speaker 3: to make a quick assessment. Coupled with the information that
Speaker 3: was provided immediately unseen visually as well, that the something
Speaker 3: wasn't in sequence here, something didn't fit you had, there
Speaker 3: were some inconsistencies of the crime scene you had. You
Speaker 3: had the guy, the man laying there without a hat,
Speaker 3: without winter clothing, without a winter jacket a Philly light
Speaker 3: leisure sweatshirt on. I believe, one sneaker, no hat, I
Speaker 3: don't believe any gloves. Evidently some trace blood in the
Speaker 3: snow droplets. Call it what you want, very obvious contusions.
Speaker 3: Hematoma to the face, the orbital aary of his eyes, swelling,
Speaker 3: laceration across the nose, not a major one, but obvious.
Speaker 3: See his face appeared to have sustained some some injuries,
Speaker 3: perhaps from a fight that would have been I think
Speaker 3: the read on anybody that arrived on that scene, police
Speaker 3: officer are otherwise. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: So far?
Speaker 3: Do you have any questions on where we are right now? No?
Speaker 1: I mean, given with all that knowledge, the sort of
Speaker 1: the the premise we're working off of is that the
Speaker 1: the everything is as you said it was. But what
Speaker 1: would be their Now what I'm trying to get to
Speaker 1: here is what would be the next behaviors? What would
Speaker 1: the police be doing next after that. So, now that
Speaker 1: you saw what you just saw, you either you they
Speaker 1: told you who this person was and you and so
Speaker 1: if you can get into the mind because some of
Speaker 1: these guys were junior officers when you left, right, these
Speaker 1: guys had just come in, right, So can you amalgamate
Speaker 1: between what you would do and what you think they
Speaker 1: would have done as the final solution if this was
Speaker 1: a Rando citizen that they did not know who owned
Speaker 1: the home and they came upon the scene, saw those
Speaker 1: injuries to Officer O'Keefe, and what would be the next
Speaker 1: thing that would happen relative to the homeowner? Or you know,
Speaker 1: you call the shift down all four units.
Speaker 3: Right, you bring in as many resources police resources as
Speaker 3: you can for what appears to be a very seriously
Speaker 3: injured person that may or may not survive the ordeal
Speaker 3: or the injuries. Probably with that call you could have
Speaker 3: transmitted to the fire department on the nine to one
Speaker 3: one relay. Look at, guys, there's a couple of inches
Speaker 3: of snow, you know, the fire captain going down on
Speaker 3: scene as a couple of inches of snow. We don't
Speaker 3: know what we got, but try to maintain and preserve
Speaker 3: the crime scene. Try not to put thirty six sets
Speaker 3: of footsteps all around the crime scene. See what you
Speaker 3: can do, Maybe even take a picture. Everybody's got a
Speaker 3: cell phone. Maybe even take a quick picture of what
Speaker 3: you're coming upon in case there are tire tracks or
Speaker 3: tell tale footprints that would lead to a helpful investigation
Speaker 3: down the road. That would be the ideal situation. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure at six o'clock, coming off of midnight everybody
Speaker 3: had that throught process going DJ Budd, it would have
Speaker 3: been a good situation to ask the fire department please
Speaker 3: do what you can to preserve the footprints and the
Speaker 3: two inches of snow that's on the ground, because there
Speaker 3: would be nothing more important invaluable in any crime investigation
Speaker 3: than having a couple of inches of snow. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're going to get your foot patterns, tread pattens on shoes, sneakers.
Speaker 3: You could use a ruler. I know that's thinking a
Speaker 3: way beyond I guess there were no rulers at the
Speaker 3: scene that day. But there's a lot you could have
Speaker 3: done on the scene and the offices could have done
Speaker 3: as soon as more help arrived and using utilizing the
Speaker 3: fight apartment. I mean they're trained somewhat in crime scene preservation.
Speaker 3: They know what we have to do when we arrive
Speaker 3: if they get there first, so we could have worked
Speaker 3: cooperatively on the radio and maybe got something preserved or
Speaker 3: at least less compromising of the scene, and then we'd
Speaker 3: work from there. So you'd have all boots on the
Speaker 3: ground from the police department. People would be looking around
Speaker 3: trying to make some observations. I think the apparent inconsistencies
Speaker 3: of the person on the ground, the individual on the
Speaker 3: ground clothed in the manner or not clothed in the
Speaker 3: manner that we just described, would raise some flags. And
Speaker 3: I think the next thing you do right away is
Speaker 3: you would again take pictures of any footprints in the snow,
Speaker 3: and you would immediately go to the house and knock
Speaker 3: on the door to see if there were perhaps more victims.
Speaker 3: Was there a big fight inside? Was is this gentleman
Speaker 3: laying on the ground got a knife in his back?
Speaker 3: Does he have a hole in his back from a bullet?
Speaker 3: What the hell went on? If you don't know these people,
Speaker 3: there could be you know, innocent people injured or needing
Speaker 3: medium medical attention inside that house. At the very least
Speaker 3: that would that would certainly have been something to do
Speaker 3: again to a protective suite, make sure there's no more victims,
Speaker 3: would be victims laying around outside backyard. My opinion, you
Speaker 3: don't need a warrant to go in the backyard to
Speaker 3: see if there's more bodies interesting.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, so you don't. But at what point do
Speaker 1: you make the determinator? First of all, thank you, miss
Speaker 1: Surety for the blessing. We really appreciate the super chat
Speaker 1: and we will get to all of those where I
Speaker 1: missed it. We will get to all the super cats
Speaker 1: and so forth at the end of the show and
Speaker 1: address each one. So thank you for any blessing that
Speaker 1: that anybody feels compelled to. And we love you anyway,
Speaker 1: whether you can or you can, Okay, Peter, So now
Speaker 1: do you get to the point now where you have
Speaker 1: identified the victim, you are starting to cordon off the
Speaker 1: crime scene and see how you can document what you're
Speaker 1: looking at that it's a it's a very difficult situation
Speaker 1: with ems, fire police plus footprints of Karen potentially Carrie
Speaker 1: Roberts all around the scene, et cetera, et cetera, and
Speaker 1: then you know, actually there could be potential foot tracks
Speaker 1: of somebody who may have placed John there that are
Speaker 1: maybe deep, you know, deeper down beneath the surface of
Speaker 1: of all the snow that fell. But all that said,
Speaker 1: you know, and you wouldn't be able to really rake
Speaker 1: that up and clean because if you did, it would
Speaker 1: be very obvious to investigating officers that those tracks were covered,
Speaker 1: whether it was with a snowshovel or something like that.
Speaker 1: And it also would look very suspicious at that time
Speaker 1: of night. But but that that notwithstanding, that would be
Speaker 1: on ring camera videos as well. I'm curious, now, at
Speaker 1: what point do you get to decide you're going to
Speaker 1: approach the door to see where the homeowner is because
Speaker 1: the homeowner whom you may now know who the homeowner is,
Speaker 1: because women at the scene Carrie Jen Karen would have said, well,
Speaker 1: the owner, the homeowner was with us and invited us
Speaker 1: to an after party here after the waterfall Rando citizen
Speaker 1: named Brian Smith. So so what happens now as far
Speaker 1: as approaching the home.
Speaker 3: No, that's a very good question, valid question, and I
Speaker 3: think at that point usually a situation like that, once
Speaker 3: once you get you know, officers on scene, it's usually
Speaker 3: the senior officer or intoor the supervisory officer. But in
Speaker 3: this case, I believe it was Officer Sarah, who had
Speaker 3: twenty seven years on the job, so he kind of
Speaker 3: would be the lead patrolman on the scene at the time,
Speaker 3: and it would be he that would perhaps, you know,
Speaker 3: give out some some orders, some commands, say look at
Speaker 3: you go there, you go here, DJ you go in
Speaker 3: the house, knock on the door, see if everybody's all right,
Speaker 3: Ask if they'll invite you in, start to gather some
Speaker 3: information from those people.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'll play the homeowner and you're the
Speaker 1: police officer.
Speaker 3: So all right, so I ring the doorbell, knock on
Speaker 3: the door, say, sir, are you aware that there's a
Speaker 3: almost mortlly wounded injured gentleman out on your lawn? No?
Speaker 3: That have you seen all the lights? Have you been
Speaker 3: out there? Do you know who would is? What happened?
Speaker 3: How they got there?
Speaker 1: No, we were sleeping. I had no idea who is.
Speaker 3: It you were sleeping? You slept through the sirens. It appears,
Speaker 3: perhaps from what we saw or what we've gotten from
Speaker 3: the the e mts, that this gentleman, because we accessed
Speaker 3: his clothing and his body in the ambulance. We checked
Speaker 3: to see if there's any injuries. Could there have been
Speaker 3: a dog in the house with a dog prints on
Speaker 3: the outside? You start to try to develop some information
Speaker 3: DJ that from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I he never came in the house, so I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, he never came in the house, and you
Speaker 3: didn't know he was You didn't know he was out
Speaker 3: on the lawn. Okay, it doesn't appear to us. That
Speaker 3: doesn't appear to us. We don't know how we got there,
Speaker 3: and we're hoping you can give us some information. Are
Speaker 3: there people in the house right now that may need
Speaker 3: police or medical attention? Can you describe how many people
Speaker 3: in the house? Can you give us your name, your information? Well,
Speaker 3: how many people are in the house.
Speaker 1: My name's Brian Smith. It's just me, my wife and
Speaker 1: my son here. Now. There was you know, up to
Speaker 1: ten people here last night, but he wasn't one of them,
Speaker 1: so he never came in the house.
Speaker 3: Okay. Could I please request you, sir, to have your
Speaker 3: family members that are president in the house come downstairs
Speaker 3: so I can speak to them. Oh, by the way, sir,
Speaker 3: would you mind if I take a protective suite through
Speaker 3: your house? Into your basement and upstairs, just to see
Speaker 3: and make sure there are no blaring inconsistencies of what
Speaker 3: you're telling me. In the fact that this gentleman out
Speaker 3: on the lawn looks like he was in a fight,
Speaker 3: and now you've just told me that there were twelve
Speaker 3: people at your house last night.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have a warrant?
Speaker 3: No, I don't, sir, I don't have a warrant right now.
Speaker 3: I'm asking for some cooperation. If you're willing to give it,
Speaker 3: that's great. If you're not, I still would like to
Speaker 3: have you bring those people forward so I can talk
Speaker 3: to them and confirm that they're all right. If you're
Speaker 3: not willing to get me give me a warrant or
Speaker 3: authorization consent, then I will apply for a warrant right away.
Speaker 3: There's just too many inconsistencies and that gentleman laying out
Speaker 3: there on the lawn and your stories. You haven't come out,
Speaker 3: you didn't hear anything going on, you slept through it.
Speaker 3: I don't know. We've got a problem here, and I'd
Speaker 3: like you to give me consent to go through your house.
Speaker 3: If you don't have anything to hide, what should you
Speaker 3: be worried about?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, officer. I'm just I'm in a habit of
Speaker 1: it's my home and if you want to come in
Speaker 1: and see it, you're going to have to have a warrant.
Speaker 1: But I I'm you know, and I'll get my lawyer
Speaker 1: on the phone. But no, I'm not just going to
Speaker 1: allow you in the house. So if you come back
Speaker 1: with a warrant, yeah, then that's what you're going to
Speaker 1: need if you want to get in the house.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, for now, let's just have the family members
Speaker 3: that you've mentioned in the house. Let's have them come
Speaker 3: down here and we'll sit everybody on the couch and
Speaker 3: see if we can come up with a solution to
Speaker 3: what's going on out there. And we'll wait for more
Speaker 3: medical updates from the personnel that are attending to the victim.
Speaker 3: And at that point, I would I would ensure that
Speaker 3: as the victim is boarded and put into the ambulance,
Speaker 3: that a police officer would accompany the victim to the
Speaker 3: hospital for the obvious reasons, they could make observations of
Speaker 3: the of the injuries and get updates from the medical
Speaker 3: personnel as they remove clothing, cut clothing off, and if
Speaker 3: there's injuries that were not seen. And now at this
Speaker 3: point you're probably going to obviously see his right arm
Speaker 3: and forum that are going to have apparent lacerations and
Speaker 3: puncture wounds. What you could, you know, start to ask
Speaker 3: it the homeowner, Hey, what's going on with that? Do
Speaker 3: you own a dog? This guy's all looks like he's
Speaker 3: all chewed up. What's your dog's named? Do you have
Speaker 3: a dog? Yeah? Over there on the kitchen floor from
Speaker 3: where I'm standing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have I have a dog. I have dog Chloe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, female German shepherd. And I'll get my wife, Honey,
Speaker 1: come down. The officer wants to ask you some questions, so,
Speaker 1: you know, get her down there. Thank you very much,
Speaker 1: Tiger for the tip. We greatly appreciate it. If you
Speaker 1: end up having a Julie has some questions too, so
Speaker 1: we got to get we gotta get Julian. Julia is
Speaker 1: our cab chat moderator, so we got to get her
Speaker 1: in there. Uh so uh, we'll break character for a second, Peter,
Speaker 1: and then we'll go we're doing good in the I
Speaker 1: think we could have taken acting over a Dean College,
Speaker 1: so we could have taken dramatic arts instead of law. Enforcement.
Speaker 1: So all right, So was Chloe ever outside out front
Speaker 1: alone or accompanied for audies? They had a fenced in backyard,
Speaker 1: is when I know Jules. I don't know if Peter
Speaker 1: knows something else. And I think Julia had an other
Speaker 1: question up there. Do you know anything about Chloe and
Speaker 1: how they kept her or anything or.
Speaker 3: You're speaking to me, yes, sir, okay. I believe over
Speaker 3: the course of the last year and a half, I've
Speaker 3: I've heard that Chloe enjoyed the fenced in backyard and
Speaker 3: that they would let Chloe out to do business, perhaps
Speaker 3: before retiring for the evening and so forth. Chloe, I believe,
Speaker 3: had a history of not socializing well with other dogs
Speaker 3: and people, and I don't believe they made made a
Speaker 3: habit of letting Chloe run loose or anything which would
Speaker 3: be a violation of Lisa or out front. So I
Speaker 3: think Chloe was pretty much confined to the to the backyard.
Speaker 3: And and and again, well, I'd like to see Chloe,
Speaker 3: like to see your family that they're safe, and.
Speaker 1: I just wanted and with still we're still.
Speaker 3: In my mind, I'm still working on getting consent or
Speaker 3: a reason for exit and circumstances to go through that
Speaker 3: house absolutely for contraband. I'm looking for bodies, I'm looking
Speaker 3: for blood, I'm looking for baseball bats. I'm looking for
Speaker 3: anything that could have caused the trauma to that gentleman
Speaker 3: that's laying out on the lawn. Maybe where is other
Speaker 3: sneaker in his hat?
Speaker 1: Might be three leaders of blood, as you pointed out
Speaker 1: in the last show, Uh, adroitly so. Julie's asking has
Speaker 1: Knton how has Canon handled similar historic person dying on
Speaker 1: a lawn? And oh boy, do we have a mister
Speaker 1: Casey who died on a lawn and was not found
Speaker 1: until later, Julie. The answers, Yes, it happened, not that
Speaker 1: long ago, was it? Craig case What was his name,
Speaker 1: Craig Casey?
Speaker 3: That's correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So yes, there is precedent for this, Julie. I
Speaker 1: don't want to go into it now because that is
Speaker 1: a whole story in itself. But yes, there was a
Speaker 1: man tragically found dead on a lawn in Canton that
Speaker 1: the police did not initially found, and then found him
Speaker 1: after the factor a citizen called in and said, did
Speaker 1: you guys know there was a body here? So yes,
Speaker 1: Craig Casey, all right, Peter so now, so do they
Speaker 1: have to allow you in to interview the family or
Speaker 1: can they keep you at the front door?
Speaker 3: Again, I would stay at the front door, I'd ask
Speaker 3: the competent unless you have exigent circumstances that it were
Speaker 3: immediately apparent, you would try to get consent. Would make
Speaker 3: it a lot cleaner as you go through the morning,
Speaker 3: or go through the interview again. If if somebody's not
Speaker 3: going to invite you in, it raises all sorts of
Speaker 3: issues immediately, and okay, you'd work from there. You'd try
Speaker 3: to navigate and get as some develop as much as
Speaker 3: you could so that either they'd be consent or or
Speaker 3: you know, you'd have again circumstances. I think, I think
Speaker 3: if the police officer had gone in the ambulance, because
Speaker 3: that is basically a continuation of the crime scene as
Speaker 3: they cut clothing off to assess injuries and found the
Speaker 3: head laceration at some point soon into the intervention, that
Speaker 3: there would have been some obvious reasons looking at that
Speaker 3: arm to go further is to where's the dog and
Speaker 3: what's going on here? And you know, if you didn't
Speaker 3: know that that guy, you didn't know who he is,
Speaker 3: and he never came in the house. Are you telling
Speaker 3: me that you let the dog out, you know, to
Speaker 3: do its business and he attacked the dog? He or
Speaker 3: she Chloe attacked that man on the lawn. Did you
Speaker 3: see that happen? Did you hear browels? Did you see
Speaker 3: the bites of their dog paws all around where his
Speaker 3: body was? You know, you could start to shoot some
Speaker 3: holes whatever alibi the homeowner may have if they have
Speaker 3: some complicity in the incident.
Speaker 1: So I think what we should do now is press
Speaker 1: the fast forward button and we're going to I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you some questions that are going to lead
Speaker 1: us to the next scenario where you and I will
Speaker 1: act this out and have some fun with this. So,
Speaker 1: how long would it have taken you to get a
Speaker 1: How long would it have taken you to get a
Speaker 1: warrant to get in the house?
Speaker 3: Hosts? Long to get a war.
Speaker 1: Cost long to get a warrant, to get.
Speaker 3: Long to get a warrant. Yeah, I knew you'd like that. Yes, well,
Speaker 3: with a little probable cause, speaking to the clerk of
Speaker 3: the magistrate at six thirty in the morning, you know,
Speaker 3: an experienced officer with some observations and updates from the
Speaker 3: medical staff and the ambulance of the dog. The gentlemen
Speaker 3: had dog bites in his arm what appeared to be
Speaker 3: or at least had been in some kind of hand
Speaker 3: again combat and or dog bites. I would tend to
Speaker 3: believe that it'd be a consideration to give you a
Speaker 3: warrant to go in that.
Speaker 1: House within how many hours?
Speaker 3: Do you think as soon as you can reach the magistrate.
Speaker 3: I mean, they'll usually say, you know, send a cruiser up,
Speaker 3: or we'll fax it to the station. It could have
Speaker 3: happened within a half an hour of forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, So everybody out there that's in
Speaker 1: the chat right now, there's a few hundred of you
Speaker 1: watching right now. Peter has said within and half potentially
Speaker 1: within a half an hour to forty five minutes. Given
Speaker 1: the circumstances. You have a Boston police officer that was
Speaker 1: found alive on the lawn but then was pronounced dead.
Speaker 1: Do we know that the time of death when he
Speaker 1: was was It was obviously not in the ambulance. It
Speaker 1: would have been after he was received at er.
Speaker 3: My understanding on that is that there is some sort
Speaker 3: of a protocol that they cannot pronounce a person deceased
Speaker 3: until the body temperature is brought up to a certain
Speaker 3: elevated temp. And I believe his body temperature was don't
Speaker 3: quote me, it was in the low eighties eighty degrees
Speaker 3: or something. And that would have been another reason to
Speaker 3: send a police officer because in the ambulance there was clothing,
Speaker 3: there was evidence, and there could have been a dying
Speaker 3: declaration had they swaddled him in enough warm clothes or
Speaker 3: he did insulated blankets that I mean, you don't know,
Speaker 3: but he conceivably could have had a dying declaration once
Speaker 3: his body temp came up and indicated who was responsible
Speaker 3: for that. Not saying that he was. I'm just posturing
Speaker 3: that as some scenario that could have conceivably happened. I've
Speaker 3: worked on cases before war where there were mortally injured
Speaker 3: people and we sent the police officer all the way
Speaker 3: in the Boston to I think it was Boston Medical
Speaker 3: Center Road with the victim in case the victim regained consciousness,
Speaker 3: and or to collect evidence and take notes and comments
Speaker 3: from the attending EMS people, part of the crime part
Speaker 3: of the crime team, except it's in an ambulance going somewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we didn't. We don't know the time of death,
Speaker 1: but we can assume. But you could you have gotten
Speaker 1: the warrant from Canton p Ed even before the state,
Speaker 1: the mass State Police got involved. Could you have gotten
Speaker 1: the warrant just based on him being mortal, you know,
Speaker 1: potentially mortally wounded on the lawn and unresponsive. Would that
Speaker 1: have been enough to get the search warrant without his
Speaker 1: actual uh uh, you know, him being pronounced dead. Sorry
Speaker 1: to put it that way. I don't know.
Speaker 3: No, that's okay, I'll try to work through it with
Speaker 3: with my knowledge, I would say that the reason for
Speaker 3: the warrant is to garnish evidence of the crime. And
Speaker 3: the crime appeared to be, you know, it seemed to
Speaker 3: take on almost immediately in some people's eyes, more than
Speaker 3: a motor vehicle accident. It appeared to be an assault
Speaker 3: and battery, so an act of violence. So again, going
Speaker 3: back to what I've said so far with you already,
Speaker 3: at some point you can argue that there could have
Speaker 3: been other victims in the house or out back, and
Speaker 3: maybe you know, at some point they learned through ID
Speaker 3: or a wallet that was in his pocket and maybe
Speaker 3: a badge or an ID that this guy was a
Speaker 3: police officer. You know, maybe at some point I ask
Speaker 3: you what do you do for work and you tell
Speaker 3: me you're a Boston police officer in charge of a
Speaker 3: fugitive apprehension unit. That would obviously lead more or questions
Speaker 3: in my mind as to whether or not this was
Speaker 3: some sort of a retaliatory hit on the house and
Speaker 3: this guy got in the way. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: There's a lot of things that you would begin to
Speaker 3: to ask questions about as to what's going on here.
Speaker 3: But okay, so on the warrant issue, Just on the warrant,
Speaker 3: as you clear, again, you're looking for fruits or instrumentalities
Speaker 3: of the crime. So whether he had just passed and
Speaker 3: you know, was deceased, or whether he was just severely
Speaker 3: beaten and unconscious, it still appeared that based on the
Speaker 3: three inch or two and a half inch laceration in
Speaker 3: the back of his skull, the facial wounds, hematoma, what
Speaker 3: appeared to be dog bites.
Speaker 1: Yep, the defensive hand wounds in.
Speaker 3: His hands, blocking blocking ye blacking blues or punch fractures,
Speaker 3: just just the totell you of the circumstances there was
Speaker 3: you know, there was evidence that this was just not
Speaker 3: somebody that fell out of the bay of a C
Speaker 3: one thirty landing and Lower Airport.
Speaker 1: All right, So that's the stitchback. So first of all,
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you to Sarah Sarah in
Speaker 1: Shank and Harrah. I love. I don't know how you
Speaker 1: came up with that name, Sarah. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: tell me on on Twitter, DM or whatever on Twitter.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear about that. Conversation is awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that. First of all, for
Speaker 1: your kindness and blessing, and for the comments about Peter
Speaker 1: and myself. I know he's a great mind with me
Speaker 1: and I think it's still in question. So anyway, thank
Speaker 1: you very much. If you would, as miss Shorty said,
Speaker 1: if you would please hit the like button on your
Speaker 1: on your YouTube, we would greatly appreciate that. As she said,
Speaker 1: for the algorithm, we're hoping this is going to be,
Speaker 1: uh the first year that we can pay for all
Speaker 1: the software that we used to make the show. Peter
Speaker 1: saw me getting a Canva tutorial to make the artwork
Speaker 1: for the show from money. Nathan Are, the creator of
Speaker 1: Calling All Beings and my partner who started the show
Speaker 1: with me with there's four of us, and so we
Speaker 1: use about four pieces of software to make the show.
Speaker 1: And this year might be the first one where we're
Speaker 1: gonna get it paid for, which is gonna be awesome anyway.
Speaker 1: So so, Peter, so we're going to assume that we
Speaker 1: could get that warrant, and now we're I'm going the
Speaker 1: reason I'm gonna fast forward is I'm going to assume
Speaker 1: that with the warrant, if you got in there with
Speaker 1: your some sort of a CSI team, they would not
Speaker 1: have been able to clean up three leaders of blood
Speaker 1: and it would have been discovered and that would have
Speaker 1: basically been been the beginning of the end of the
Speaker 1: question of whether or not he was hit by a
Speaker 1: car or whether the injuries occurred inside the home, and
Speaker 1: then that part of the case is over. Is that
Speaker 1: a fair assumption on my part?
Speaker 3: It certainly is. Yeah, it certainly is. And you know,
Speaker 3: I would suggest to you that it's a it's a
Speaker 3: cumulative process of building probable cause to do an immediate
Speaker 3: search or exigence circus you know, declare exigen circumstances or
Speaker 3: something along those lines, protective sweep, and you know, if
Speaker 3: there were chairs knocked over or you know, my observation
Speaker 3: was that it looked like there was some even an
Speaker 3: odor of cleaning fluids, a bleach for somebody who slept
Speaker 3: through all the excitement out in the front line. What
Speaker 3: did they have a clean up party, you know, with
Speaker 3: with mops and stuff after after everybody left at one thirty,
Speaker 3: they clean the foot Well, I'm going on the generic
Speaker 3: side that you know, did everybody get a mop and
Speaker 3: not everybody but the homeowners a mop and a pail
Speaker 3: and wipe the snow spots and dirty shoemarks off the
Speaker 3: tile floor in the kitchen? Was that bleach coming from
Speaker 3: somewhere else? And you know you'd work diligently to get
Speaker 3: to get into that basement or through the house to
Speaker 3: make sure there's no other victims. And depending on mannerisms,
Speaker 3: training and experience, you know you'd roll with that and
Speaker 3: and do the best you can. If if it ends
Speaker 3: up in a case law Supreme Court and it gets
Speaker 3: thrown out or some of that evidence gets thrown out,
Speaker 3: well so be it. You did the best you could,
Speaker 3: and you you gotta you got you did get a
Speaker 3: warrant eventually through probable cause and testimony or Affidavid and
Speaker 3: off you go.
Speaker 1: So so the case ends. The case ends there against
Speaker 1: Karen Reid right there, so we can so we have
Speaker 1: to move on to the next investigative steps to that
Speaker 1: places him inside the home. So what would be there
Speaker 1: in terms of So let's go into the interview room.
Speaker 1: And now we've got uh, we've got the two Brians
Speaker 1: that are in there, although their last names have been
Speaker 1: changed to protect the guilty. So we have the two.
Speaker 1: We have the two. Now that we've got the warrant,
Speaker 1: we have got probable cause to bring in all of
Speaker 1: the suspects. And they're all in separate rooms. So you've
Speaker 1: got the video because they said they were at the waterfall,
Speaker 1: and you got the video at the waterfall. So can
Speaker 1: I can play one of the Brians and you're the
Speaker 1: interrogator and we're in the We're in an interrogation room.
Speaker 1: And now the Mass Day troopers are involved, so it's
Speaker 1: Trooper X uh is the one who is doing the interviews. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I'm I'll be whichever Brian that you want.
Speaker 3: Okay, So just can you give me a approximate timeline
Speaker 3: on this is to where we are on this interview
Speaker 3: stage right now?
Speaker 1: So now you've got you've got all this. So what
Speaker 1: if you had all that CSI stuff. I guess I
Speaker 1: don't know that you would necessarily, but you're still gonna
Speaker 1: get the waterfall video, and you're still gonna get the
Speaker 1: ring camera videos because they're gonna say he never entered
Speaker 1: the house. So you're gonna get all those ring camera videos,
Speaker 1: including the one from then. I guess Lieutenant kell Her
Speaker 1: at the time. Was he lieutenant or deputy chief at
Speaker 1: the time?
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I believe he was a lieutenant at
Speaker 3: the time of the incident on January.
Speaker 1: Okay, so he's then Lieutenant kell Her. You're gonna get
Speaker 1: his his video, and it's gonna show John O'Keefe exiting
Speaker 1: the car and with the angle, show the front door
Speaker 1: from if you if you can kind of a picture
Speaker 1: where his home is. Would do you think that that
Speaker 1: video would have shown him actually getting to the front
Speaker 1: door from the angle?
Speaker 3: I can only speculate on that that depending on the
Speaker 3: angle of his camera, which was apparently philly high above
Speaker 3: the door jam from what I saw in pictures that
Speaker 3: it would have it would have projected out considerably towards
Speaker 3: the street. I can't I've been speculating totally. If I
Speaker 3: said to you that it would have covered the front
Speaker 3: lawn or the driveway or the mailbox without you know,
Speaker 3: without actually seeing what he had for a setting. And
Speaker 3: but I would say this that if we're developing, you know,
Speaker 3: trying to implement some preservation of the crime scene, which
Speaker 3: would be our major concern once we get there, did
Speaker 3: be enough boots on the street with our own shift,
Speaker 3: and I would have I would have or somebody should
Speaker 3: have at that point the officer in charge at the time,
Speaker 3: which I believe would have been the sergeant. But however
Speaker 3: he did communicate at some point with the lieutenant across
Speaker 3: the street to get the infamous solo cups and the
Speaker 3: stop and shop bag. I guess so somebody should have
Speaker 3: taken command in the administrative level command staff and call
Speaker 3: the chief and probably called the Border Selectment Chairman of
Speaker 3: the Selectman and say, look, we have a serious incident.
Speaker 3: Just keeping you apprized of what we got. You know,
Speaker 3: we've got to bring I'm going to bring the whole
Speaker 3: department in. I'll recall totally everybody to the police station
Speaker 3: until this, you know, case either runfolds or we get
Speaker 3: more information. We need to go door to door to
Speaker 3: get ring camera. We got to go to waterfall get
Speaker 3: there footage because the homeowner has told us that they
Speaker 3: were there and at c F. McCarthy's, perhaps before they
Speaker 3: got to the thirty four FIVU. So there would have
Speaker 3: been a multitude of information should have been you know,
Speaker 3: started to be looked at, and you would have needed
Speaker 3: a lot of personnel to do that. So I recall
Speaker 3: of all the personnel to the police department, have a briefing. Chief.
Speaker 3: Deputy chief should have been at the at the police station,
Speaker 3: I would suggest, and also the lieutenant across the street
Speaker 3: could have taken command of the scene until Lieutenant Gallagher
Speaker 3: got there. There's there's just a as somebody think said,
Speaker 3: if there was anything that you ever wanted to do
Speaker 3: in a crime scene that to make it totally unacceptable,
Speaker 3: they did it. Oh I didn't do it?
Speaker 1: Do you do you? Oh? This is really funny from
Speaker 1: Caneto in terms of us playing the role, says, can
Speaker 1: I play Chloe? Yes, part I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know how we can find fun in this. But because
Speaker 1: this really is tragic, you know the loss of John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 1: But I guess with the amount of coverage and the
Speaker 1: amount of focus that we're putting on this, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to try to find some levity while maintaining
Speaker 1: that we want justice for John O'Keeffe, and unfortunately we're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to get that unless Karen Reid
Speaker 1: is free. Somebody in the chat turtle Boy, and I
Speaker 1: know a lot of you watch Turtleboy quite often in
Speaker 1: our are are tracking everything that he puts out. He
Speaker 1: has said how many ring camera videos excuse me, how
Speaker 1: many ring cameras are within that span of the street
Speaker 1: that he believes should had some visibility on the crime scene.
Speaker 1: So if anybody knows that, but there is a certain number.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Peter knows that number, but I
Speaker 1: would suggest that, uh, somebody would have a view that
Speaker 1: would probably show the front door. And that's really all
Speaker 1: we need. We just need a view of their front door,
Speaker 1: and you could see John O'Keeffe and his clothing entering
Speaker 1: the front door, and you would see you would see him.
Speaker 1: Uh if you didn't see him exit the car because
Speaker 1: the car was blocking him, you would have seen when
Speaker 1: he more than likely walked past the vehicle and down
Speaker 1: the driveway and up the walk to the door. So
Speaker 1: that's what I would suggest. Let's have some fun though
Speaker 1: with some interrogation, because you're gonna you're gonna get him
Speaker 1: in the interrogation eventually, room, So why don't we do
Speaker 1: I think these guys would probably think it's fun to
Speaker 1: hear you interrogate Brian or Brian uh and at at
Speaker 1: the barracks. So so tell me how that would go,
Speaker 1: and I'll be I'll play the bad guy.
Speaker 3: I guess I've got to reiterate my question just so
Speaker 3: I kind of know where I'm going with these questions.
Speaker 3: Approximately what time of day is this? In other words,
Speaker 3: sometime around zero eight hundred hours, there was a command
Speaker 3: decision from the Canton police hierarchy that they were going
Speaker 3: to recuse themselves from the case and turn it over
Speaker 3: the state police. Can we agree on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's agree on that. So now you have to
Speaker 1: put yourself as a trooper.
Speaker 3: Okay, But having said that, I'm still going to put
Speaker 3: myself with the Canton Police patch on my shoulder because
Speaker 3: of the reason that it's still a crime scene in
Speaker 3: my jurisdiction in the town of Canton, and I don't
Speaker 3: care whether I recuse myself as an investigator in it.
Speaker 3: God damn it. There's a police officer who apparently isn't
Speaker 3: going to live and at this point I may even
Speaker 3: know that it happened in a police another police officer's property.
Speaker 3: At this point, at least the body was found there.
Speaker 3: You don't abandon that just because you refuse yourselves. You don't.
Speaker 3: And I'm being perhaps crass on this, You don't walk
Speaker 3: away from Amurda. You close the street, You protect the
Speaker 3: crime scene the best you can. You get every means
Speaker 3: you can available in the way of whether it's tops
Speaker 3: or whatever, try to save the scene. I'm going to
Speaker 3: suggest that it was the Canton Police who at some
Speaker 3: point indicated that they taped off the area or roped
Speaker 3: off the area, but the wind was blowing the rope down,
Speaker 3: and that they at some point got a leaf blow
Speaker 3: her to stop looking for evidence of the crime. Now,
Speaker 3: this was still Canton Police DJ. This was not the
Speaker 3: Safe Police, and I believe it was sometime sometime between.
Speaker 3: I'm going to say, I don't know, I forget the
Speaker 3: exact time. There's so much data on this, but between
Speaker 3: the time Lieutenant Gallagher showed up, who had a top
Speaker 3: or something in his truck and arrived on scene, and
Speaker 3: then they recused themselves. There was some leaf blowing, there
Speaker 3: was some evidence ganishing in the six solo cups. There
Speaker 3: was a stop and shop bag. Yeah, and then I
Speaker 3: believe there was at some point officer Lank I guess
Speaker 3: he was a sogeant at the time. He took command
Speaker 3: or possession of that evidence bag with the blood droplets,
Speaker 3: and his testimony was he went back to the police
Speaker 3: station and put it in a secure, refrigerated temporary evidence fault,
Speaker 3: knowing that it was going to go to the State
Speaker 3: Police because Canton was recusing themselves. Well, lo and behold
Speaker 3: that bag shows up under the bumper of a Lexus
Speaker 3: opened for plain view.
Speaker 1: Oh doesn't maybe that's how blood was transferred.
Speaker 3: Well, let your conscience be your guide, my friend.
Speaker 1: I don't know, But look at.
Speaker 3: Before we get to the State Police, which was your
Speaker 3: original question. There's a timeline between the ambulance run to
Speaker 3: the hospital, more officers unseen, the evidence coming from across
Speaker 3: the street from Keller's house, and then the arrival of
Speaker 3: a Gallagher who had to go to the station first,
Speaker 3: I guess, and get some gear. And then the leaf
Speaker 3: Blower Brigade started with Sean Good, Sogeant Good and Lieutenant Gallagher,
Speaker 3: and then at some point I believe they cleared and
Speaker 3: Lank did too, I believe, sometime between eight thirty and nine.
Speaker 3: And then I believe Lank went back to the house
Speaker 3: having been recalled by Jen McCabe because she suddenly had
Speaker 3: a recollection of statements that were made by by the
Speaker 3: operator of the vehicle and Lank, I believe, and it
Speaker 3: was Sewan Good I believe, gained entry to the house openly.
Speaker 3: They invited them in and they sat there sometime around
Speaker 3: nine o'clock I believe, and took another statement. And then
Speaker 3: sometime after nine the canton abandoned the scene. Left, just
Speaker 3: drove away, just left dodge a parent. Didn't put anybody.
Speaker 3: I mean, they could have posted somebody there until they
Speaker 3: were relieved duly relieved by the state police. Whether the
Speaker 3: police said they were coming right away or they hadn't
Speaker 3: been told it was a murdy.
Speaker 1: Yet, yeah, no, I get it. They had state.
Speaker 3: Police come to my scenes, and as I said, there
Speaker 3: was an officer going to the hospital with a patient
Speaker 3: that was still alive. It had not been deemed a
Speaker 3: homicide yet and but you know the crime scene, and
Speaker 3: especially with the word recuse, you need to bring in
Speaker 3: the replacement agency right away. If they say they're not coming,
Speaker 3: I've never ever heard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then you stay at the scene.
Speaker 3: We're not coming until the person dies. So if that's
Speaker 3: the way they want to run it, if that's the
Speaker 3: way DA Morrissey's office handles crime scenes, then you post
Speaker 3: Canton police offices around strategic locations, close the street, tell
Speaker 3: the plow guy, you know, come down to a certain distance,
Speaker 3: back up, and plow back up the other way. But
Speaker 3: you know we're gonna leave this place intact. You're not
Speaker 3: gonna plow across the street.
Speaker 1: Maybe evidence here, absolutely, I mean we know that they
Speaker 1: they bungle this on purpose because, as you pointed out,
Speaker 1: are actually so we don't have Nurse Kim here to
Speaker 1: read this one. But this is a great one. Can
Speaker 1: you read that?
Speaker 3: Do you want me to read something? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Read that. Read that one from from Lily.
Speaker 3: Yep use a.
Speaker 1: We need Kim to say Losa because there's no one
Speaker 1: that's going to say it with a better accent than
Speaker 1: Nurse Kim Losa. Anyway. Anyway, so all right, these guys
Speaker 1: want to hear us do some role plays. So you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to interrogate. Are you ready? Do you have
Speaker 1: your your angry face on to interrogate or I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're gonna play good copper, bad cop and
Speaker 1: I'll play Brian.
Speaker 3: No, I'm ready to roll with this. I just I
Speaker 3: just want to I just want to communicate one thing,
Speaker 3: and I communicated this today at the you stand out
Speaker 3: and debt him. We have seen over the course of
Speaker 3: this investigation comments, We've seen signs. We've seen people dressed
Speaker 3: up in different garb representing certain players, whether it be
Speaker 3: the judge or whoever. Today, somebody showed up at the
Speaker 3: standout dressed as a fisherman with a sign of District attorney,
Speaker 3: bring in the Feds, and had had this thing hanging
Speaker 3: from a fishing pole. And there were also a couple
Speaker 3: of strong supporters, diligent advocates of Karen Reid's innocent that
Speaker 3: were dressed up in skeletons and mentioned So the point
Speaker 3: of my story is, although there appeared to be some
Speaker 3: lack of seriousness here, there isn't anybody that comes to
Speaker 3: these standouts, and there isn't anything that you and I
Speaker 3: are going to say tonight that down deep inside of
Speaker 3: our heart and soul, we know this is a serious,
Speaker 3: tragic situation and that there are a lot of people suffering.
Speaker 3: Both families are suffering, and they both lost loved ones.
Speaker 3: And so no matter the role playing that we and
Speaker 3: I go through in the next ten minutes or an
Speaker 3: how whatever it is, you and I can project to
Speaker 3: the audience that we take this very very very seriously.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely what I was trying ad and what I
Speaker 1: was trying to and maybe this is a good time
Speaker 1: to say this. What I was trying to accomplish with
Speaker 1: role play was not to make light of what happened.
Speaker 1: It's really to no but I in case anyone in
Speaker 1: the audience is unclear, It's really to give people an
Speaker 1: idea of what would have happened were it not an
Speaker 1: infamous law enforcement officer from Boston who owned the home
Speaker 1: in which the crime occurred. That was the purpose of
Speaker 1: this is so that people would understand what would have
Speaker 1: happened and how it would have been handled. It wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been handled on the sofa at Jen McCabe's home
Speaker 1: with five or six people that had all their stories
Speaker 1: are already worked out, telling the same story, nodding their
Speaker 1: heads at each other. It would have been you go
Speaker 1: to this room, you go to this room, you go
Speaker 1: to this room, you go to this room, and that's
Speaker 1: probably happening within hours of his body being discovered on
Speaker 1: the lawn. Am I correct?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay? I also I want to get something in here
Speaker 1: from please pass the pepper. First of all, thank you
Speaker 1: for I believe you connected with me. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was on YouTube or Twitter, but thank you
Speaker 1: very much. So missus Brian was cleaning protest protest. You
Speaker 1: might have to help me out with this one per
Speaker 1: testimony of all there? Why keep saying this on the stand.
Speaker 1: I didn't see the significance, then if you would clarify that,
Speaker 1: because I don't. I want to get your point and
Speaker 1: get it answered, but I don't quite understand. If you
Speaker 1: could just retype that, I'll get it unless somebody else
Speaker 1: gets it and I don't so, but we will get
Speaker 1: it answered for you. Thank you very much for that, blessing, Peter.
Speaker 1: So we're into interrogation now we're here, and would you
Speaker 1: let me know we're in the interrogation room, which Brian,
Speaker 1: do you want to interrogate? First? The one who had
Speaker 1: the altercation at the the call out from the waterfall
Speaker 1: or the homeowner.
Speaker 3: I would I would like to interrogate. I'd like to
Speaker 3: have perhaps both to offices, interrogate both of them in
Speaker 3: different locations. Okay, just because of the significance that they
Speaker 3: both you know, a good interrogation it could take forty
Speaker 3: five minutes to an hour. I think again, if we
Speaker 3: can get more information, develop more information from both of
Speaker 3: them in different settings, different interrogation rooms, we can we
Speaker 3: can benefit from that in a in a more timely manner.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll be, I'll be. Let's start out with Higgy poop.
Speaker 1: I'll be Higgy poop and and go ahead, here we go, right,
Speaker 1: I'm ready.
Speaker 3: All right, So I basically asked Higgy pool with the
Speaker 3: Higgy pool, can you tell me please about last evening?
Speaker 3: What's your day involved? Yes, yesterday, starting early morning of
Speaker 3: the twenty eighth, can you tell me about your your day?
Speaker 3: What it involved, where you went, where you came from,
Speaker 3: and where you eventually ended up before you went back
Speaker 3: to the the home party, after after party from the
Speaker 3: bar that you were drinking at. Could you give me
Speaker 3: all the information you can on that If well, you know,
Speaker 3: I go ahead, yes.
Speaker 1: Sir, I was watching the Patriots game, having a few beers,
Speaker 1: and then that night I went out to the waterfall
Speaker 1: with my friend Brian Albert was invited out there, and
Speaker 1: there was a whole group of people there and we
Speaker 1: ended up there have a few beers and relax.
Speaker 3: Okay, would you find a shocking, higgy that we have
Speaker 3: had somebody go to the waterfall. We had them open
Speaker 3: up early, and we have a video showing pretty much
Speaker 3: what transpired inside of that bar up until an hour
Speaker 3: plus a minus around the closing time. With that, that
Speaker 3: surprised you that we have already obtained that information.
Speaker 1: You know what, officer, I have nothing to hide here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went, I was at the waterfall and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just you know, everybody seemed to get along having a
Speaker 1: good time. Was really nothing, you know, nothing to it.
Speaker 3: Okay. Would it Would it surprise you that it appeared
Speaker 3: to me in my training and experience that you were
Speaker 3: posturing and gesturing across the room to another party with
Speaker 3: a with a pointed finger indicating that you had a
Speaker 3: problem with that person and you were willing to try
Speaker 3: to settle it either right there on site or rectify
Speaker 3: it sooner than later. That there was a problem, there
Speaker 3: was friction, there was hostility. Would you what would you
Speaker 3: say to that with your pointing of the finger over
Speaker 3: the top and somebody, I mean somebody into to say
Speaker 3: apparently calm down, not here.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't see that as hostile. I mean
Speaker 1: I was just pointing over there. I was joking around,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't hostile. It was just like a little
Speaker 1: bit of trash talk is nothing serious. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything against the guy. You know, we're
Speaker 1: you know, basic, you know, our friends basically.
Speaker 3: Ah, okay, dude, you have you had any kind of
Speaker 3: how long have you known that person you were pointing at?
Speaker 3: How long have you known the homeowner? Can you explain
Speaker 3: your relationship with them and get into some detail on that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the victim, I know in a couple
Speaker 1: of years. You know, we were introduced by somebody I
Speaker 1: don't remember who. The homeowner Brian Albert. We've been friends
Speaker 1: for I don't know, fifteen years something like that, a
Speaker 1: little been friends for quite a while.
Speaker 3: I see. Okay, So you would your statement would be
Speaker 3: that the the the the how would we call it?
Speaker 3: The the antics of two guys shadow bloxing prior to
Speaker 3: this finger pointing and playing some sort of grab ass
Speaker 3: in the in the full front of the bar area,
Speaker 3: and then the pointing over the top at closing time,
Speaker 3: sort of being intercepted by another party. You're you're indicating
Speaker 3: that it's just normal that everybody in the bar probably
Speaker 3: did that before they left to go home tour. Is
Speaker 3: that what you're telling me?
Speaker 1: No, I didn't see anybody else doing that, But it's
Speaker 1: just a little bit of grab ass. This is something
Speaker 1: in that Brian I do all the time. You know,
Speaker 1: this is this is normal. There's nothing, there's nothing, nothing
Speaker 1: much to it. It's just, you know, the way that
Speaker 1: you know, me and Brian, you know, get together, have
Speaker 1: a your drinks and no, just a little bit of
Speaker 1: grab ass.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right? Did you happen to know the female
Speaker 3: that was in the forefront two in the direction that
Speaker 3: you were pointing in. Did you happen to know who
Speaker 3: she is? And was there any involvement with you with
Speaker 3: her in the past or any animosity between you and
Speaker 3: the other parties that would would indicate why you were
Speaker 3: pointing over the top as you were.
Speaker 1: I just got a break character for a second. Hello,
Speaker 1: micro Dots, welcome back in and we're big fans of
Speaker 1: your work. Now we got to go back it to
Speaker 1: a character here. Yeah, I know, huh, I know her.
Speaker 1: You know, we've you know, we've exchanged some texts and
Speaker 1: you know, but yes, nothing serious, but yeah, we you know,
Speaker 1: we've had a few texts and you know, some interest there.
Speaker 3: I see interest there, like mutual interest between the two
Speaker 3: of you. When was the last time you, guys think
Speaker 3: you and she may have texted?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I texted her that night. I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: but I think I texted her that that night.
Speaker 3: I see. Okay, all right, well you can you can
Speaker 3: assume that at some point, if you're not willing to
Speaker 3: turn over your phones, that we're gonna we're gonna seek
Speaker 3: to get them and find out exactly what was said
Speaker 3: and what texts and times went out. You understand that.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you'd be willing to hand over
Speaker 3: your phone, but I guess I'm asking you for it
Speaker 3: at some point right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not giving up my phone. And I I
Speaker 1: have nothing to hide here. I didn't do anything, I
Speaker 1: had nothing to do, had nothing to do with Oh keef,
Speaker 1: and unless you have a warrant from my phone, I'm
Speaker 1: not giving it to you.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a warrant to open your phone
Speaker 3: and listen to your phone and look at your phone,
Speaker 3: but I probably could get a warrant to seize your
Speaker 3: phone and put it in safe keeping until we can
Speaker 3: get further warrants to to exposure what's in your phone.
Speaker 3: And if you're not willing to go that route, I'll
Speaker 3: ask you to put your phone on the table and
Speaker 3: we'll apply for that warrant right now as well.
Speaker 1: All right, here's my phone. You get a warning and
Speaker 1: then you can you can look at it. Other than that,
Speaker 1: I'm taking it back.
Speaker 3: Okay, Let's see what we can do with the magistrate
Speaker 3: if we can get the paperwork.
Speaker 1: All right, that's pretty good. That was pretty good, Peter.
Speaker 1: All right, So do you want to do a quick
Speaker 1: Brian Albert and then we'll close out the show. We don't.
Speaker 1: We don't have a whole lot of time here, but no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, miss Shorty, I'm doing it. It takes some
Speaker 1: work to do a Boston accent and all of our
Speaker 1: friends and fans here, and I don't want to do
Speaker 1: an oh, man, I lost Peter. Oh my god, hopefully
Speaker 1: here he's back. He's back. Okay, there he is, Peter's back.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it in injustice. I would
Speaker 1: love man, I would love Peter to like try to
Speaker 1: ham up his accent a little bit and maybe do
Speaker 1: a Brian Albert. We'd well, we would welcome to the
Speaker 1: house with open arms. Isn't that what he said? If
Speaker 1: John O'Keefe came, we'd welcome him with open arms. I
Speaker 1: love that. I think Turtle Boy did a good, good
Speaker 1: impression of Brian Albert saying that that was really funny.
Speaker 1: All right. Uh, I didn't hang up on Peter, Sarah.
Speaker 1: That wasn't me.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that glitch was. I didn't touch anything.
Speaker 3: I just it was a quick glitch in the transmissions between.
Speaker 1: Us if they hacked Sean. But they haven't gotten into us.
Speaker 3: No, they haven't got out yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the bit the bass has a good firewall here,
Speaker 1: all right. So anyway, anyway, so do you want to
Speaker 1: do do you want to do a little bit of
Speaker 1: Brian Albert and then we'll close it out whatever you want.
Speaker 3: This is your rodeo.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you know, because we we established you
Speaker 1: were gonna get all the ring camera videos. You were
Speaker 1: gonna get that stuff, and then you really just needed
Speaker 1: to see if you could get some of corroboration or
Speaker 1: confession out of these guys, because you you would have
Speaker 1: had by now, you would have had the warrant, you
Speaker 1: would have had the CSI data that probably would have
Speaker 1: turned some things up, you would have had the videos,
Speaker 1: and then you would have just been interviewing these guys
Speaker 1: and see what you could get them to talk about,
Speaker 1: including all those folks that were at the house, like
Speaker 1: Jennifer Cabe. Who would you rather in it? Would you
Speaker 1: rather do Jen McCabe or would you do Brian Albert
Speaker 1: if you wanted to do an interview, we'll take I
Speaker 1: think initially you said the too, Brian.
Speaker 3: So if we let's do what.
Speaker 1: Okay, and remember this is not this is not you know,
Speaker 1: this is not the law enforcement officer, because if it is,
Speaker 1: and then we know what happens. This interview never happens
Speaker 1: because it didn't happen. So this is going to be Brian,
Speaker 1: but it won't be the seasoned law enforcement officer who's
Speaker 1: been well, who has well crafted answers for everything, and
Speaker 1: knows the drill, so to speak. So all right, let's
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 3: All right, So I want to thank you Brian for
Speaker 3: coming down to the barracks to conduct this interview with us.
Speaker 3: Can I get your coffee? Make yourself comfortable here, you
Speaker 3: want a water? I'd like to ask you some questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. This is horrible, horrible what happened here?
Speaker 1: This is terrible, but yeah, thank you. It's not a problem,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Okay? Can you can you relate to me what what
Speaker 3: you were conducting for business or leisure time from early
Speaker 3: morning of the twenty eighth until right now this time
Speaker 3: of this interview. Can you relate to me where you went,
Speaker 3: who you were with, what you were doing.
Speaker 1: So so me breaking character, I don't know what Brian.
Speaker 1: The events of Brian's day, we're leading up to the waterfall,
Speaker 1: so I'll make a copa on that. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to start at the water or fall. I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of lucky. I didn't know what Higginbotham was doing, what
Speaker 1: I didn't know what who was doing prior to that.
Speaker 1: So so here we are. So that evening, Uh I
Speaker 1: invited a bunch of our friends out. UH my niece,
Speaker 1: her husband, Uh, my friend Brian, uh, my brother, my
Speaker 1: brother Chris, and a bunch of us went to the waterfall.
Speaker 1: Just relax and have some beers.
Speaker 3: Okay. Do you have any idea approximately what time you
Speaker 3: got there and what time you would have left?
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Maya Kulpa, and I don't know
Speaker 1: what time did they arrived? So forgive me. If anybody
Speaker 1: in the chat, or or if Peter knows, do you
Speaker 1: know what time they arrived and what time they left?
Speaker 3: I'd be guessing without my notes in front of me.
Speaker 3: So we'll just go with, do you know approximately what
Speaker 3: time it was that you guys were leaving the bar?
Speaker 1: You know? One to say they must have left around midnight?
Speaker 1: Did the bar close at midnight?
Speaker 3: So okay, that's close close enough okay?
Speaker 1: And midnight yep?
Speaker 3: Okay. And so you you were leaving the bar. Before
Speaker 3: you left the bar, you have conversation with any other
Speaker 3: people that you are familiar with or friends of yours
Speaker 3: that you may have invited to the bar or inadvertently
Speaker 3: bumped into there.
Speaker 1: Uh. Well, another officer there was John O'Keeffe. Another Uh,
Speaker 1: I should have said that friend officer John O'Keeffe, his girlfriend, Karen,
Speaker 1: my niece, Kerry Roberts, Brian Higgins, my brother. So there
Speaker 1: was a lot of people there and then we ended
Speaker 1: up having a I invited people over for an afterparty.
Speaker 3: Okay, did would you say that the evening was amicable
Speaker 3: between all the parties that were there. We can get
Speaker 3: into the the how long you've known everybody and the
Speaker 3: who's who and the what's what, But for right now,
Speaker 3: I'd like to know what was your what was your
Speaker 3: feeling about that evening as it was closing down? Was
Speaker 3: everybody amicable? Were there any problems or hostilities between anybody?
Speaker 1: Not at all. Everybody was having a good time, is relaxing.
Speaker 1: I didn't have sense any animosity there at all.
Speaker 3: Okay, has it been ever been any animosity in the
Speaker 3: past with the gentleman that we later I guess identified
Speaker 3: as now the decedent? Any any problems with him in
Speaker 3: your past?
Speaker 1: Never he was a junior officer. Well in this case,
Speaker 1: you know, well we got to pretend he's not a
Speaker 1: police officer. But or maybe for the purposes of this,
Speaker 1: we could pretend that actually Brian Albert was a police officer.
Speaker 1: But you were actually doing your job in interrogating him.
Speaker 1: So I so in this case because we never get
Speaker 1: to the interrogation because he's he was cop. But for
Speaker 1: this purpose, we pretend that actually Perea Murphy was on
Speaker 1: duty and says, no, we're going to prosecute this case properly,
Speaker 1: and he actually does do an interview where Brian Albert
Speaker 1: is alone in the room and Brian Higgins is alone
Speaker 1: in a room, irrespective of what their position is. So
Speaker 1: we could actually attack this a different way. So he
Speaker 1: was a junior officer in the department. Nice kid, never
Speaker 1: had any problems.
Speaker 3: With him, Okay, all right. The other the other patrons
Speaker 3: that had accompanied you as part of this group at
Speaker 3: the at the waterfall, would you would you say that
Speaker 3: they're all friends to some varying degrees or acquaintances or
Speaker 3: how would you describe the people that you just related
Speaker 3: to me who were there family and friends of yours?
Speaker 1: Yeah, some was close families, some of them were more
Speaker 1: like friends, and others were more like acquaintances, like Karen
Speaker 1: is more like an acquaintance.
Speaker 3: I see. Okay. Would would it be out of the
Speaker 3: realm of possibility to suggest to you that there may
Speaker 3: be some ring camera footage on the street that we
Speaker 3: have already garnished and had a chance to look at.
Speaker 3: Did you have a ring camera that was functioning? Did
Speaker 3: the gentleman across the street who you must know, tell
Speaker 3: her did he have a ring camera? Do you know
Speaker 3: any anybody else on the street that has ring cameras?
Speaker 3: You're a pretty high profile police police officer. I guess
Speaker 3: we're identifying you as a police officer. Now you must
Speaker 3: have you must have some home security. Apparently you had.
Speaker 3: I've been told you you have a German shepherd. We'll
Speaker 3: talk about that. Any green camera information that you can
Speaker 3: provide me, would you mind if I asked you to
Speaker 3: look at yours?
Speaker 1: So break breaking character right now. If anyone knows whether
Speaker 1: or not Brian had a ring camera or not, if
Speaker 1: anyone in the chat you know that he did, he
Speaker 1: did have one, Peter.
Speaker 3: I can tell you that the story I believe he
Speaker 3: testified to was that he got a ring camera for Christmas,
Speaker 3: but he hadn't put it on his house. Hut. I've
Speaker 3: heard contraindications to that.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so we it's unclear, So I'll deny
Speaker 1: that I have the ring camera. I don't have a
Speaker 1: ring camera on my house off, Sir Murphy. But you know,
Speaker 1: as to the neighbors, I can't speak to what what
Speaker 1: ring camera footage they may or may not have.
Speaker 3: I see, okay, all right, So do you know do
Speaker 3: you recall any kind of hostilities or grab ass at
Speaker 3: the bar area where you might have and posturing that
Speaker 3: you're having some sort of a wrestling match or some
Speaker 3: sparring using your using your hands. Are you trained in
Speaker 3: self defense or boxing at all? Sir?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm an amateur boxer.
Speaker 3: Amateur boxer. Yeah, No, I am, okay, all right? And
Speaker 3: that that means what if you're an amateur box that
Speaker 3: you compete in in boxing and gyms and so forth,
Speaker 3: or you just uh, you just do it to maintain
Speaker 3: your skill set because of your job.
Speaker 1: Mostly sparring. Uh, I've had I've had a few boxing
Speaker 1: matches here and there, but I'd say mostly sparring.
Speaker 3: I see okay. I noticed that you you didn't take
Speaker 3: your gloves off, and it's pretty warm in here. There's
Speaker 3: the reason for that?
Speaker 1: When no, I it's that for the sweaty hands. Is
Speaker 1: that why the gloves? What's that question for Peter? But
Speaker 1: we've gotta break character for a second.
Speaker 3: Are you are you hiding some damage knuckles?
Speaker 1: Oh oh wow wow, that's why. This is the reason
Speaker 1: why Peter was a police officer for thirty four years.
Speaker 3: Everybody's a suspect until proven innocent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so at that point, that would be really interesting
Speaker 1: keep the gloves on, especially if you had like lightweight
Speaker 1: leather gloves, something that wouldn't look like ski gloves inside,
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be too obvious that okay, why are you
Speaker 1: wearing ski gloves inside? Really interesting? So you would make
Speaker 1: them take the gloves off. Yeah, yeah, so I removed
Speaker 1: I yeah, I'll remove my gloves.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, for the benefit of the conversation, we'll
Speaker 3: we'll just say that the doesn't appear that there's any
Speaker 3: damage to you hands at this point. To move the
Speaker 3: move the conversation.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: So, okay, you you had a bunch of people over
Speaker 3: to the house. There was some kind of a party
Speaker 3: at your host before you returned here from the waterfall
Speaker 3: or what was the age group of the people that
Speaker 3: were there? Why were they there and how many of
Speaker 3: them stayed and how long did they stay?
Speaker 1: I may need help on this. I believe there's ten
Speaker 1: people there. If I'm not mistaken my nephew. Somebody, somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna have to help me with this, because I don't
Speaker 1: have all the names of all the folks. I know
Speaker 1: the nephew was there at one point. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if Caitlin Albert was there or if she was called
Speaker 1: to come pick up to come pick up Colin Albert.
Speaker 1: I believe carry was there at some point. Sarah Levinson
Speaker 1: I believe was there. Obviously, Jen was there, Brian Albert
Speaker 1: Junior may have been there, obviously, Nicole Albert, Brian Albert,
Speaker 1: Brian Higgins. And there's quite a slew of people there.
Speaker 1: Julie Nagel, I'm getting there. Jen and Matt both were there.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So it looks like Brian Albert Junior, two girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Colin was leaving in the mccabes. Thank you everybody, and
Speaker 1: someone said the bagel, So I let the bagel. These
Speaker 1: people are so funny, Peter, They're so funny.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Someone put her shoulder, pulling Chloe off. Julie's really gotten
Speaker 1: into this case. I think since this started, Ali Ali
Speaker 1: McCabe picked up Colin, not Caitlin Albert. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. I really appreciate it. I am. If there's
Speaker 1: an area of weakness on this case, it is a
Speaker 1: lot of those ancillary plays, so I do have some
Speaker 1: weaknesses there. So let's just assume I named off everybody
Speaker 1: who was there for the sake of the discussion.
Speaker 3: Okay, What I'd like to do at this time, mister
Speaker 3: Albert is just revisit the waiting moments at the bar.
Speaker 3: As you know, you were a police officer, obviously, and
Speaker 3: so is mister Higgey, who we have also conducted an
Speaker 3: interview with. Would you find it out of out of
Speaker 3: the norm that you guys were posturing some sort of
Speaker 3: boxing and also that they appeared to be some hostility
Speaker 3: or animosity generated from mister Haigy in the direction of
Speaker 3: repeat to be John O'Keefe or at least the decendent.
Speaker 3: Would you comment on that please? How did you interpret that?
Speaker 1: I didn't see it as animosity, and as far as
Speaker 1: me and Higgins, it was a little bit to grab
Speaker 1: ass and nothing more. I didn't see hostility between anyone
Speaker 1: at the bar that night.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right? And you were aware that we're probably
Speaker 3: asking Agent Hegey the same questions that we're asking you.
Speaker 3: We're just trying to get information as to how a
Speaker 3: gentleman ended up on your front line and you didn't
Speaker 3: know anything about it, and apparently it was sometime after
Speaker 3: a party. Had you invited this gentleman back to your house?
Speaker 3: And did he come in the house? Did you see
Speaker 3: him come in the house?
Speaker 1: He never came in the house. I did not invite him,
Speaker 1: but Higgins did invite him.
Speaker 3: I see. Okay, the reason you did you just did
Speaker 3: or didn't have a reason to invite him, or you
Speaker 3: opted not to invite him.
Speaker 1: We're not that close. I didn't think to invite him,
Speaker 1: but he would have been welcome to my house with
Speaker 1: open arms.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay. Have you had occasions? Have you had occasions
Speaker 3: in the past to have social settings, having beers or
Speaker 3: something at other establishments in the town, perhaps where the
Speaker 3: picture has taken of you in the last week or so?
Speaker 3: Everybody together, Chris, al, but you John, uh and Higgey
Speaker 3: I have okay? All right? So so do id so have?
Speaker 3: I is the right way? Okay? Well, I guess moving
Speaker 3: right on. So can you tell me what happened approximately
Speaker 3: he didn't come in? Did you see Doc, did you
Speaker 3: see Karen's carly or did you hear that she had
Speaker 3: come by were there were their phone calls being made
Speaker 3: from inside your health house by family members asking where
Speaker 3: are you.
Speaker 1: I did not see eat her car, and I did
Speaker 1: not see John come in the house at all. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if somebody else saw her,
Speaker 1: but I did not see her.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, So let's fast forward to some time
Speaker 3: after six zero six hundred dollars in the morning.
Speaker 1: Where were you?
Speaker 3: What were you doing at that time? What time did
Speaker 3: you go to bed? What time did you and Nicole
Speaker 3: retire for the evening?
Speaker 1: Must have been around two thirty we Uh. I went
Speaker 1: to bed. My wife and I were having relations, and
Speaker 1: I fell asleep, and I I didn't wake up until
Speaker 1: after I heard all this happen.
Speaker 3: I see, I see what to refresh your memory if
Speaker 3: if I told you that, I think Jen McCabe came
Speaker 3: running into the bedroom with some then said something had
Speaker 3: happened outside sometime around sometime shortly after six o'clock in
Speaker 3: the morning, when all the emergency vehicles were there.
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember, I remember that.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but you didn't. You didn't You didn't go outside,
Speaker 3: You didn't see anything, You didn't find a need to
Speaker 3: go out into the front yard where this incident took
Speaker 3: place and where it was being dealt with by a
Speaker 3: multitude of personnel. You you never left your house to
Speaker 3: go out there. It's an investigated as a police officer,
Speaker 3: inherently an inherent curious person by trade, you didn't see
Speaker 3: a need to go out there.
Speaker 1: It's not my crime scene. It's it's it's not my jurisdiction,
Speaker 1: it's not my crime scene. I I stayed out of it.
Speaker 3: I understand you were perceptive enough to know that it's
Speaker 3: not your crime scene to investigate. But I guess my
Speaker 3: question is, would it have been the norm for somebody,
Speaker 3: regardless of their profession, to at least go out and
Speaker 3: check on what appeared to be at this point, perhaps
Speaker 3: your knowledge that this was a friend of yours, or
Speaker 3: at least somebody that was invited back to your house
Speaker 3: at night, just the officer.
Speaker 1: Officer, I was asleep, My sister in law comes running
Speaker 1: in the bedroom yelling, I'm just waking up, and before
Speaker 1: you know it, all the emergency vehicles are gone, and
Speaker 1: that was it. I didn't take it as anything else.
Speaker 1: I was waiting to hear what happened. My brother's an
Speaker 1: officer in Canton, and I figured he would call me
Speaker 1: and tell me what happened.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, and that that brother is what is his
Speaker 3: name and what is his rank on the police.
Speaker 1: Department, detective Kevin Albert?
Speaker 3: Okay? And did you have any conversation or did you
Speaker 3: see Kevin Albert in the course of the Saturday leading
Speaker 3: up to and or after midnight on the twenty ninth.
Speaker 3: Did you see him, have any conversation with him?
Speaker 1: Not until after this happened, not until the next day.
Speaker 3: The next day, I see, okay, what type of car
Speaker 3: would your brother drive, Kevin Alban?
Speaker 1: I think he has a Ford Edge. I think I
Speaker 1: don't recall, but I think that's what he's driving.
Speaker 3: I see, okay, ford edge. Any any determination on what
Speaker 3: color that might be?
Speaker 1: I don't remember what what color it is? Is it gray?
Speaker 1: And if somebody helped me in the chat, if we
Speaker 1: know what color the four edge was on, that was
Speaker 1: as a sand color. Somebody helped me, if they know anyway, Sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, Lily. It's awesome, Thank you, Lily.
Speaker 3: As as you know from your training and experience as
Speaker 3: a police officer at this point, we're just trying to
Speaker 3: gather information, collect information as to what may have taken
Speaker 3: place that that has led to the death of Officer
Speaker 3: John O'Keefe. And at this point we're just trying to
Speaker 3: get as much information as we can. We haven't focused
Speaker 3: on anybody yet, but you can imagine that we are
Speaker 3: going to be due diligent as far as getting all
Speaker 3: the ring cameras, trying to develop as much information as
Speaker 3: we can from phones, from Celebrate, from Geo, any any
Speaker 3: means possible that we can try to figure out what's
Speaker 3: going on here, either before or after we prochio warrants
Speaker 3: and go into these phones. So you understand where I'm
Speaker 3: coming from, You understand what's going on, and you understand
Speaker 3: where this might end up. And I would I would
Speaker 3: suggest to you that we're just looking for cooperation at
Speaker 3: this point in time. So let's continue with the interview.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, let's Peter. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: what nobody wants to be in the hot seat with you,
Speaker 1: because man, that was difficult, man, and I didn't have
Speaker 1: answers to a lot of these a lot of these
Speaker 1: great questions that you asked, So that was absolute fire
Speaker 1: Man where would you have gone. I'm gonna break character
Speaker 1: here because we're getting past we're almost at the hour
Speaker 1: and a half mark. Where would you have gone next
Speaker 1: with them?
Speaker 3: I just would have I just would have pressured them,
Speaker 3: you know, more and more and more on on in
Speaker 3: the evening, leaving the bar, revisiting conversations about the posturing.
Speaker 3: You know, I just would have tried to bring it
Speaker 3: up in case I could get him with an inconsistency
Speaker 3: or a variation in what he was telling me. And
Speaker 3: and obviously worked on the fact that that it was
Speaker 3: probably going to be in his best interest to tell
Speaker 3: as much of the truth as he could, because at
Speaker 3: some point we're going to do our damn best to
Speaker 3: get every source of information and evidence if it becomes
Speaker 3: accusatory that we can, so either he can tell us
Speaker 3: now or perhaps tell us in another venue.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And if you like this, let's face, an interview
Speaker 3: like this could you know, could take hours. It doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be a quick, you know, bullet point questions
Speaker 3: that I might have, you know, quickly put together on
Speaker 3: my way to the barracks.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, you would have you would have done, you know,
Speaker 1: make it take hours and then come back and ask
Speaker 1: him all over again and see if he changes his story.
Speaker 3: Right, So, yeah, absolutely, and at the same time we
Speaker 3: we would we collectively the law enforcement agency would have
Speaker 3: been interviewing anybody and everybody whose name we had, you know,
Speaker 3: obtained through starting out with the two Bryans, and and
Speaker 3: anyone else that we met initially, you know, after six
Speaker 3: o'clock that morning. So there wouldn't have been any of
Speaker 3: this stuff like let's let's talk to the plow driver
Speaker 3: a year later. It would have it all would have
Speaker 3: happened within a very timely manner by a diligent law
Speaker 3: enforcement agency.
Speaker 1: Right it would the recollection would have been very fresh
Speaker 1: and Lucky's mind U But they didn't want to interview we.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody here knows that this was a corrupt
Speaker 1: investigation meant to not garner any evidence that would suggest
Speaker 1: her innocence. They had to build a case against her,
Speaker 1: so they didn't They didn't want it. They were aware
Speaker 1: of Lucky Lochran. They were quite aware that the street
Speaker 1: was plowed. A blind person could see that the street
Speaker 1: was plowed, and they obviously are smart enough to know
Speaker 1: that the plow driver might have seen something. So obviously
Speaker 1: Proctor would have wanted to interview him if he didn't
Speaker 1: want to eskew any exculpatory evidence in Karen Reid's favor. Obviously.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what that was the whole purpose of
Speaker 1: last night's show regarding the I said, a thought experiment
Speaker 1: using critical thinking skills. Any investigative police officer would have
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to the plow driver who made like three,
Speaker 1: four or five sweeps up that road to see did
Speaker 1: you see anything? Well, Mike Procter didn't want to talk
Speaker 1: to Lucky. Why would that be, well, because he might
Speaker 1: he might give evidence that that suggests that the body
Speaker 1: was not there when it should have been there after twelve,
Speaker 1: you know, after twelve twenty something at night, because by
Speaker 1: twelve thirty one or whatever, or twelve thirty seven, and
Speaker 1: remember is when she was clocked back into the Wi
Speaker 1: Fi back at John's house, so there had to have
Speaker 1: been a body there at you know, somewhere between twelve
Speaker 1: twenty and twelve thirty one. Any police officer would say, well,
Speaker 1: let me talk to the plow driver who plowed the
Speaker 1: street after that, but they didn't want to. So we know,
Speaker 1: we realize that it's corrupt We were trying to play
Speaker 1: this as if what would happen if there were either
Speaker 1: in the first instance, if they were lay persons, how
Speaker 1: they would have approached the owners of the home and
Speaker 1: the occupants of the home at the time of the incident.
Speaker 1: And then we were able to we were able to
Speaker 1: extrapolate that into Okay, you're police officers, but we actually
Speaker 1: have honest police officers that are investigating this, and they
Speaker 1: actually bring in the mccabs and the Alberts, both husband wife, Higgins,
Speaker 1: and everybody's in a separate room being interrogated, and some
Speaker 1: of them are just sitting there stewing for hours wondering
Speaker 1: what the other ones are saying before they could all
Speaker 1: get their story straight and be on a sofa with
Speaker 1: what's his face with Mike Procter, which is just the
Speaker 1: most the height of absurdity. All right, So super Chats
Speaker 1: please pass to Pepper again. We didn't get clarity on that.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you though for that. I don't
Speaker 1: think we have any more questions from super chat ers,
Speaker 1: Miss Shorty obviously with a compliment. So let's get to uh,
Speaker 1: let's get to the ones that I starred that are
Speaker 1: unsuper Chatted so this one right here, this for Peter.
Speaker 1: It's odd only because Jen McCabe knew John O'Keefe, but
Speaker 1: she was driving around literally looking for John O'Keeffe, and
Speaker 1: John O'Keefe only who did she think that man passed
Speaker 1: out in the snow was. And that's my my jenn mccaby.
Speaker 1: He has a man on the lawn at thirty four,
Speaker 1: have you that's my my jenn McCabe impression. I hope
Speaker 1: you guys like it's not terrible. It was a man
Speaker 1: on the lawn the Albert's residents. So yeah, I mean, obviously, Olivia,
Speaker 1: if you're still here, Love, I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: still here. Obviously that was all good play acting by
Speaker 1: Jennifer McCabe. Let's get Scott in here. Scott, pretty simple.
Speaker 1: John O'Keefe is found on a civilian's lawn and Brian
Speaker 1: Albert didn't call in the fix before Canton p D arrived.
Speaker 1: Brian Albert didn't call in the fix before Can and
Speaker 1: PD arrived. The entire scene plays out differently. House entered
Speaker 1: the actual scene itself. Yeah, I mean that's basically what
Speaker 1: Peter just said. He just told you how it would
Speaker 1: have happened. They would have knocked on the door. And
Speaker 1: this is what I said last night. They would have
Speaker 1: knocked on the door. They would have asked for entry. Peter,
Speaker 1: you know, just he I mean, he he's a police officer,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna say, hey, can I can I speak
Speaker 1: with your wife? Could you bring her to the door?
Speaker 1: Can you bring anyone who's home to the door so
Speaker 1: I can speak with him, even if you won't let
Speaker 1: me in, And we'll have a warrant, you know, we'll
Speaker 1: get a warrant. And then he told you that within
Speaker 1: thirty to forty five minutes he would have they would
Speaker 1: have had a warrant. And let's just say at the
Speaker 1: outset it was two hours. Let me ask you this, Peter.
Speaker 1: Could you guys have parked an officer there and said
Speaker 1: nobody comes in and or or nobody comes to that?
Speaker 1: Can you prevent people from coming or do you just
Speaker 1: have to just station officers there as a present until
Speaker 1: the warrant is received.
Speaker 3: I used to kill the scene. That's you know, your
Speaker 3: objective is to secure the prime scene from any contamination,
Speaker 3: any footprints, anybody coming and going. And it could have
Speaker 3: been as you know, it could have been as simple
Speaker 3: as knocking on the door and saying, you know, I'd
Speaker 3: like to come in and sit down and talk. There's
Speaker 3: something serious going on out here in front of the house.
Speaker 3: Have you been out to see it? No, I haven't. Okay,
Speaker 3: welles that raises some flags. Do you know who that
Speaker 3: person is? Did you hear anything over night? Blah blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. We did a protective sweep. We walked around
Speaker 3: the back of the house, cutting through the neighbor' yacht
Speaker 3: because your yards fenced in. We saw a lot of
Speaker 3: footprints coming out of the bullheit. We have some questions
Speaker 3: about that. What were people coming out of the bulkhead
Speaker 3: for after midnight? What was going on? It looks like
Speaker 3: a lot of activity out there. I'd like to talk
Speaker 3: to you about that. And if things don't, you know,
Speaker 3: get if things become problematic, As far as the answers
Speaker 3: to a train and observer, it just raises the problem
Speaker 3: cause that you're going to put in your affidavid to
Speaker 3: get a warrant, and they would have. At some point
Speaker 3: you could freeze the crime scene. You can say, look
Speaker 3: at who's in the house, get them down here, now
Speaker 3: put your cell phones in that Paul reveal, ble over there,
Speaker 3: sit there with the hands folded, no communication. We're going
Speaker 3: to get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1: You know. There there, there you have it, folks. This
Speaker 1: is what would have happened, Julie. So yeah, if you
Speaker 1: google the Craig Casey case in Canton, Uh, you will
Speaker 1: hear about what happened with Craig Casey and the lawn
Speaker 1: is awful.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Scott mcinness, Scott Peter. One theory has always been that
Speaker 1: o Jo's body was put in the car, say, inside
Speaker 1: the garage, and then the car driven over to the
Speaker 1: front of the house. O Jo removed and staged on
Speaker 1: the lawn. Ford edge served as a shield. How do
Speaker 1: you like that theory?
Speaker 3: I'm going to comment in two directions. Number one is
Speaker 3: I want to tell you that I don't know. If
Speaker 3: you know DJ, you probably may or may not know
Speaker 3: what Scott. Scott McGuinness has probably got the highest attendance
Speaker 3: rate at all of these standouts of any of the
Speaker 3: Karen Reid team. Scott is a squared away guy in
Speaker 3: my opinion, and he's rock solid again in my opinion.
Speaker 3: The question that he's asking, uh, that's been tossed around
Speaker 3: is it possible. It's certainly possible. However, we're dealing with
Speaker 3: a we're dealing with a police officer. Now that we
Speaker 3: know you and I are not role playing anymore, do
Speaker 3: I dealing with the police officer who we're going to
Speaker 3: assume is was lucid by the time he was making
Speaker 3: these decisions. Maybe not, but sometime after three am, which
Speaker 3: brings me another point. Remind me if I forget I
Speaker 3: want to talk to about four am radio transmission. Just
Speaker 3: don't let me walk away from that. But anyway, suggest
Speaker 3: I'm going to suggest that that a police officer with
Speaker 3: a skill set isn't going to drag a body through
Speaker 3: the house, upstairs, through the house, put it in a car,
Speaker 3: possible risk contamination of the rooms he's going through or
Speaker 3: she and putting it in a car. It just is
Speaker 3: just too much risk of DNA, you know, cross contamination.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, the best way would have been to
Speaker 3: go out through the bulkhead around the back and then
Speaker 3: get some kind of a sweep or broom electric leaf blower,
Speaker 3: no noise, and and just kind of clean off the
Speaker 3: footsteps that came out of the bulkhead and through the gate.
Speaker 3: And that's just my opinion, I am not I'm not
Speaker 3: condescending anything in the direction of Scott with that comment,
Speaker 3: because that that is out there, and and and I
Speaker 3: everything everything that comes to me. I tag it back
Speaker 3: and put it on the shelf DJ and then I
Speaker 3: go back to it, revisit it with more corroboration. And
Speaker 3: if you get it four or five people telling in
Speaker 3: the same story, you got to give a traction. But
Speaker 3: what Scott has proposed with this theory is very viable.
Speaker 3: It may come out to be the truth. I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's great, Scott, thank you very much. That's a great theory.
Speaker 1: It could be that, or it could be the Ford
Speaker 1: edge was just used as a shield to obscure the
Speaker 1: sight line of anybody out that was further a field
Speaker 1: from the street from viewing someone coming through that backyard
Speaker 1: fence and then bringing the body over to rest there.
Speaker 1: Either I mean six of it very well could have
Speaker 1: been that that it was done with the Ford edge,
Speaker 1: but it also may not have. It may have just
Speaker 1: served as a shield so that people couldn't couldn't see it.
Speaker 1: But I I you know, the body would be more protected,
Speaker 1: more obscured from sight inside the Ford edge, from in
Speaker 1: the garage than it would have been just blocking the
Speaker 1: street because there's some other sight lines there. But I
Speaker 1: again I'm not familiar with thirty four fair View I'm
Speaker 1: going to have to do some Google Earth there, all right,
Speaker 1: So you wanted to talk about the four am call
Speaker 1: and then we'll get to Marjorie, So go ahead, sir.
Speaker 3: So we're talking about the plow driver who we now
Speaker 3: know to be identified as Lucky, and also the likelihood
Speaker 3: that there's video ring camera footage from many, many, many
Speaker 3: streets and locations in the community that were obtained. I'm
Speaker 3: going to suggest by outside agencies. We'll leave it at that,
Speaker 3: and then I'm going to tell you that there could
Speaker 3: very well be some ring camera footage that shows certain
Speaker 3: vehicles driving around sometime after two thirty in the morning
Speaker 3: responding to thirty four fav of you road, and that
Speaker 3: could be problematic for a lot of people. And there
Speaker 3: was supposedly a radio transmission. I have a pretty good
Speaker 3: source that indicated there was a radio transmission about four
Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning on the DPW radios. It said
Speaker 3: report of a pedestrian struck in the vicinity of Fairview
Speaker 3: Road by a plow now that allegedly was broadcast at
Speaker 3: four o'clock ish in the morning, and then there was
Speaker 3: no further transmissions. There was nothing over the radios that
Speaker 3: the DPW radios would have picked up. And I believe
Speaker 3: there were subcontractors plowing for the town of Campon with
Speaker 3: intensity and the magnitude of the stone was going to
Speaker 3: be so great that there were contractors plowing for the town,
Speaker 3: helping the town out with the expected snowload, and they
Speaker 3: would have all had these PW radios. And my understanding
Speaker 3: was that one of the contractors was asked by an
Speaker 3: employee a plow driver, hey, whatever happened to that radio
Speaker 3: transmission at zero four hundred hours, and the comment was,
Speaker 3: we don't talk about that transmission, and there wasn't one,
Speaker 3: and don't bring it up again.
Speaker 1: So that was meant to be a lark. Well, I
Speaker 1: think that transmission that was meant to field.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna suggest to you and the audience. Was it
Speaker 3: the prelude to setting up Lucky for being the driver
Speaker 3: who would have struck a pedestrian. I think what would
Speaker 3: have put the snaffo on that if that was the case,
Speaker 3: was there was not enough snow to make it look
Speaker 3: like a drift across the side of the road and
Speaker 3: let the plow come through. That's just my opinion. That's
Speaker 3: kind of like in the same direction.
Speaker 1: That's some that's some really really sick people that would
Speaker 1: that would do something. Well, obviously these are really sick
Speaker 1: people that would try to frame an innocent woman. But
Speaker 1: thank you for shedding light on that. Marjorie asks you, Peter,
Speaker 1: who decides what exigen circumstances are, like, there are certain
Speaker 1: scenarios that are automatically exigent or not so because you
Speaker 1: refer to exigence circumstances.
Speaker 3: Yeah, without getting into the definition of it, exigency means
Speaker 3: that there is a likelihood that there could be a
Speaker 3: loss or destruction of evidence, critical evidence to a crime scene.
Speaker 3: It could be that there's injured, critically injured people that
Speaker 3: need medical attention that would create an exigency. Uh, it's
Speaker 3: something that if you don't address it in a very
Speaker 3: timely manner, like almost now, you're going to lose stuff,
Speaker 3: or it could be contaminated, or it could go away.
Speaker 3: And you know the intent of our judicial system is
Speaker 3: to preserve evidence so that you can bring it forward
Speaker 3: in a criminal setting, criminal trial which obviously we saw
Speaker 3: the the after effects of what didn't happen in this case.
Speaker 1: This is a great point by Ann Merritt. Thank you
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you're at the standout today,
Speaker 1: but thank you and thank you. Scott. Did Ba have
Speaker 1: any sprained arm or injuries on his hands or face?
Speaker 1: I also think either officer Lank or Good who first
Speaker 1: win in the Albert's house would have smelt bleach in
Speaker 1: my opinion, I'll let Peter answer that for me. If
Speaker 1: they would have went in the basement. Bleach is an
Speaker 1: odor that you can't really hide that quickly, So in
Speaker 1: the basement that would have been very tough to hide.
Speaker 1: But what's your answer on that one, Peter? Any injuries
Speaker 1: so Brian Brian Albert's arms, hands, face?
Speaker 3: Do I am I aware of any? Is that the
Speaker 3: question you're closing me?
Speaker 1: Deay?
Speaker 3: I'm not aware of anything that has come out in
Speaker 3: any evidence of testimony, So to answer that question, period,
Speaker 3: I'm not aware of any. Would they have been possibly
Speaker 3: if he was one of the combatants or if he
Speaker 3: used one of the combatants. My guess is there certainly
Speaker 3: would have been some telltale signs about their face or
Speaker 3: their hands, that they sustained a couple of you know,
Speaker 3: took a couple of incoming punches or hits. I can't
Speaker 3: speak to whether there was or not, and so I'm
Speaker 3: just saying it would have been telltale, perhaps, especially by
Speaker 3: the looks of John's hands. If there was a fight
Speaker 3: inside the house, somebody might have had some indication that
Speaker 3: they'd been hit.
Speaker 1: But and we do know that Colin Albert had hit
Speaker 1: the scrapes on his knuckles. I don't know whether he's
Speaker 1: left handed or right handed. I don't know if that
Speaker 1: was his punching hand or not, but that would be
Speaker 1: interesting to know.
Speaker 3: That would be interesting to note. But as you know,
Speaker 3: if you're gonna slip on the ice, you put your
Speaker 3: knuckles down first and always embrace your fall. So again
Speaker 3: I'm not a doctor. I can't speak to what happened,
Speaker 3: but Tom I would say this, and it's only a hunch.
Speaker 3: I think. I think the FEDS have a lot, lot,
Speaker 3: lot more than we give them credit for right now,
Speaker 3: and I think things are gonna get busy.
Speaker 1: Praise be the Lord mystery singer. First of all, I
Speaker 1: love to if you're a singer, because I love music. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do have my eyeglasses over top of my sunglasses.
Speaker 1: Paul had a So this is for you, Peter. Paul
Speaker 1: had a d w I car accident and hit an
Speaker 1: elderly man whom he paralyzed and is suing Paul for
Speaker 1: medical bills which could go into millions. This is a
Speaker 1: theory here Paul needs Karen to get convicted so he
Speaker 1: can sue for her wrongful death. Wow, this is this
Speaker 1: is definitely in the conspiracy zone. What do you make
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 3: Again, I don't I don't discount anything. Everything's on the table.
Speaker 3: I'll listen to anything, I'll tag it, i'll bag it,
Speaker 3: I'll put it on the shelf, and if we can
Speaker 3: corroborate it down the road with one or two or
Speaker 3: three more people. Is that theory any further fetch than
Speaker 3: what Scott McGinnis head. No, you know, on on on
Speaker 3: on the car backing out of the garage and acting
Speaker 3: as a as a shield. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think, as they say in the crime world, follow
Speaker 3: the money right, if there's a money issue, I can't
Speaker 3: speak to what people's motives are, and I'm certainly not
Speaker 3: going to go down that rabbit hole on follow grief
Speaker 3: but again, I I got to believe that if there's
Speaker 3: any information out there that would head in any of
Speaker 3: the direction of inculpatory towards anybody else other than Karen Reid,
Speaker 3: that the Feds have it.
Speaker 1: And I would say, only just put that up there
Speaker 1: one more second. Yeah, I'll leave that where it lay.
Speaker 1: But I will say the former, just to paraphrasing what
Speaker 1: Peter said. The former Pentagon chief of the UFO program,
Speaker 1: Luel Zondo, whose book Imminent is coming out on August twentieth,
Speaker 1: about what he knows about UFOs. He ran the program
Speaker 1: for the pentagonasy GS fifteen, and he said when they
Speaker 1: ask him this question about the origin, about the motives
Speaker 1: of UFOs, he says, everything's on the table till it's
Speaker 1: off the table. So that's the same thing you said.
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody's guilty and less until proven innocent. Let's
Speaker 3: face find a body on a line. It didn't come
Speaker 3: out of the bay of a C one thirty a
Speaker 3: flight coming back from Orlando right there. I don't mean that, Crassley.
Speaker 3: I mean again, no, we're talking about a deceased police
Speaker 3: officer here and a family, the Reed family, that's been
Speaker 3: tragically interrupted and towelment, and also of the Yoki family
Speaker 3: that lost two family members in a short off my period.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just a tragic, tragic situation between many families,
Speaker 3: and now you've got nieces and nephews involved too. It's
Speaker 3: just it's horrible. And I'm going to suggest to you
Speaker 3: that if there was a diligent crime scene investigation sometime
Speaker 3: after six am on that morning, that we may not
Speaker 3: be having this conversation.
Speaker 1: We're not there wouldn't be in.
Speaker 3: Need of it.
Speaker 1: Nope, because as you said again we'll say it for
Speaker 1: the second time during the broadcast, and you said it
Speaker 1: very adroitly, there's three leaders of blood that need to
Speaker 1: be accounted for. And to a skilled CSI people, someone
Speaker 1: like Eddie Wallace, you know from duty Ron, you're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to hide. You can throw out,
Speaker 1: throw down all the bleach you want. They're going to
Speaker 1: find they're going to find a spot of that blood
Speaker 1: if there was three leaders of blood, or they're going
Speaker 1: to find all the bleach, and that in itself is
Speaker 1: going to be uh, you know, probable cause, and you
Speaker 1: know there's gonna be in die and then then you
Speaker 1: start getting all the other video the ring camera videos
Speaker 1: and everything like that comes into play if they're not
Speaker 1: able to find the blood, right, I mean, now the
Speaker 1: all the videos, everything else you know that they find
Speaker 1: they find that. Oh, well, you're saying that the girlfriend
Speaker 1: did it, but she only has a crack taillight. So
Speaker 1: how do you explain this that this guy's dead in
Speaker 1: your lung? Where the hell's his shoe? We have a
Speaker 1: video of him walking in the house from ring camera
Speaker 1: across the road, so that you know, the burden, the
Speaker 1: burden of proof certainly would shift over to the defense
Speaker 1: on that one. So Mystery Singer has another singer here
Speaker 1: which you're gonna love. Instead of Jen McKay Peter, it's
Speaker 1: Jen mccob. Okay, Jen mccob on nine to one one
Speaker 1: called John o'keeth it. Jen mccob told Carrie giving CPR
Speaker 1: get off him. Then Carrie told Karen, y'are not helping
Speaker 1: wow these and so then she says these people are
Speaker 1: sick and evil psychopaths. Yeah, apparently, so apparently they are
Speaker 1: a very textbook in that way. That's all you You've
Speaker 1: you've really you know, Mystery Singer, you really really have
Speaker 1: hit on it here. And I don't think I can
Speaker 1: add and say anything uh that could make more clear
Speaker 1: what you've said. I'm going to go back to this.
Speaker 1: We're going to close the show now. I want to
Speaker 1: thank uh everybody, thank you for the superstickers and super chats.
Speaker 1: I really do appreciate it. It's really going to help
Speaker 1: us out a lot. I got an l L from
Speaker 1: True Crime Kangaroo. Thank you love. There's no way that
Speaker 1: it has cleaned up one hundred percent. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: one hundred percent true it. I mean I've heard I've
Speaker 1: heard CSI analysts have say that, you know, so you can,
Speaker 1: you can do what you want. But I'm going to
Speaker 1: find that spot of blood. You can bleach it, you
Speaker 1: can try to clean it up as best you can.
Speaker 1: I'm going to find it. Duty Ron and Ed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those guys are awesome. All right, thank you everybody? Uh
Speaker 1: any parting shots? Final words? Uh, Sergeant Peter Murphy.
Speaker 3: Uh, Well, just as as you and I both know,
Speaker 3: this was, as you called it, an impromptu get together
Speaker 3: sit down tonight, I certainly you know I. I didn't
Speaker 3: have a chance to go over my uh my case
Speaker 3: recent case law on my notes, names and faces and
Speaker 3: so forth. So if I appeared to be a little
Speaker 3: you know, caught off God, I was as far as
Speaker 3: where you were going with this role playing and stuff.
Speaker 1: So but it was great.
Speaker 3: I hope it was. I hope it was informative to
Speaker 3: the audience, because that's what we're trying to do, is
Speaker 3: bring people to a point of asking questions in their
Speaker 3: own mind and asking other people and filtering through the
Speaker 3: testimony that they're hearing. And God forbid here again in January.
Speaker 1: God forbid that. Yeah, yeah what you so? Yeah? That
Speaker 1: was the idea was to kind of do a thought experiment.
Speaker 1: What would have happened and Peter took you like, what
Speaker 1: an interrogation would have looked like, what a conversation with
Speaker 1: the homeowners would have looked like were it not Brian Albert,
Speaker 1: or if it were just an honest police investigation, which
Speaker 1: I submit to you that Peter were he on duty
Speaker 1: that night, That's what would have happened, whether Brian Albert
Speaker 1: was the homeowner or not, that would have happened, although
Speaker 1: he might have hurt. I don't know what you had done.
Speaker 1: If the deputy chief would have told you, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want you going and knock it on the door.
Speaker 1: What would you do then then you call? Would you
Speaker 1: be calling the attorney general or what do you do?
Speaker 3: I would I I don't know. I probably would have
Speaker 3: taken a hit on failure to obey in order a
Speaker 3: command from a senior officer, and I would have knocked
Speaker 3: on the door.
Speaker 1: There you go. So so you guys got a good
Speaker 1: taste of what it was. I know we did a
Speaker 1: role play and there was a little bit of fun there.
Speaker 1: And thank you Lily. Next time we do this we
Speaker 1: will have you role playing. You can play any character.
Speaker 1: You could be Jen McCabe if you want. Next time
Speaker 1: we do this, we can have Peter interrogate Jen McKay.
Speaker 1: But Lily is gonna play Jen McCabe. So so thank you.
Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing you and miss Shorty Saturday
Speaker 1: night for the round table with Masa Nurse Kim Sean mcconnaugh.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm missing anybody. I think that's
Speaker 1: ever right anyway. But Peter Man, it has been an
Speaker 1: honor to be your friend, to be able to get
Speaker 1: to have these conversations with you offline. I thank you
Speaker 1: everybody in the chat for rescuing me with all the
Speaker 1: facts that I didn't know, and I really that you
Speaker 1: can know a lot about this case and you really
Speaker 1: don't know. You can think you know a lot like
Speaker 1: I did, and I really there's so much that I
Speaker 1: don't know. Julie has did an amazing job with catching
Speaker 1: up on this case. Man, Wow, Julie, you really wowed
Speaker 1: me tonight. Really looking forward to see all then, Ernie Birdie,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We should all do charades. You
Speaker 1: are so funny with a comedy tonight. And there was
Speaker 1: somebody else in here that was really funny. If somebody
Speaker 1: can remind me who that was, hit me up on
Speaker 1: Twitter or whatever. You can see mine there. Peter Murphy
Speaker 1: is at sergeant Slammer for those of you who want
Speaker 1: to follow Peter Murphy at sergeant Slammer on Twitter. We
Speaker 1: need to get more followed, We need to get people
Speaker 1: communicating with him because you are an amazing resource and
Speaker 1: we might even we might see you at this thing.
Speaker 1: I just gotta make sure we don't have too many.
Speaker 1: But I would love to have you. And if I
Speaker 1: just shut up and don't talk, more than we could
Speaker 1: have you and Seawan there. I just want to stalk less.
Speaker 3: This is your This is your rodeo. You do a
Speaker 3: great job. I've just started, you know, getting involved with
Speaker 3: watching your shows and participating in a couple of these.
Speaker 3: So power to you, and you do what you gotta do.
Speaker 3: And uh, if I even just get to sit here
Speaker 3: and watch it live without participating, I'm more than happy
Speaker 3: to do that. And I'm sure it's going to be
Speaker 3: a great roundtable. And uh and and encourage your audience
Speaker 3: to make sure that they slot that time out to
Speaker 3: watch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that'll be Saturday night, and it'll be even
Speaker 1: better if we get Peter in there. And right now
Speaker 1: they're saying for Sean, we want to Sean says, not
Speaker 1: members only, but Wednesday night, six pm, Sean will have
Speaker 1: a reattack on the episode that he was going to have.
Speaker 1: And Sean is appointment listening. We all know that. So
Speaker 1: uh all right, so actually let me scroll up get
Speaker 1: my outro video here? Uh man, So there it is
Speaker 1: cab outro. All right. So for Sergeant Peter Murphy, for
Speaker 1: all of you in the chat whom we are just
Speaker 1: so indebted to for doing coming and participating and making
Speaker 1: this so much damn fun. We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Freak Aaron Reid, justice for John O'Keefe. Let's do this
Speaker 1: damn thing, Okay, let's keep going. Thank you, Peter. I'll
Speaker 1: be happy you all right. I appreciate it. Peace out,
Speaker 1: one love and we'll see you down the road, all right.
Speaker 3: Have a great night. You get a lot going on.
Speaker 1: Thank you, brother,