1 00:00:20,879 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: Hey, Ben Hansen, who are you good? 2 00:00:22,679 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: How are you doing good? You know, it's it's. 3 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:27,559 Speaker 3: It's been a long time, you know. Of course we've 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,559 been in contact and many other ways. Unfortunately with our 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,159 good friend Lee Spiegel, you know, we sort of connected 6 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:33,600 back then. 7 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:35,399 Speaker 1: I still miss him. 8 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:40,079 Speaker 3: Uh. I watched that James Fox video the other day 9 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,399 and his picture came up at the end because James 10 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:46,960 dedicated the film to him, didn't he That's right. 11 00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:51,399 Speaker 1: And you know, but it's like, uh, I still miss Lee. 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 4: Was Lee was interesting because he used to call me, 13 00:00:55,359 --> 00:01:00,079 uh sometimes weekly until he got married. But when I 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,920 first got married, my wife set a time limit to 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,560 talk to Lee, because that's why are you talking to 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,560 it is Lee, honey. And she's like, tell him, you 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,560 got to put the kids to bed, you know, like 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,560 you get an hour or it. He just used to 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,200 love to chat and on the. 20 00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:18,799 Speaker 1: Secret four hour conversation with you. It wouldn't be unusual. 21 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: And the funny thing is when he passed away, Lorraine said, 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:22,560 thank you guys. 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,359 Speaker 1: So I had a break, that's right. 24 00:01:25,079 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 2: That so yeah, And they just didn't talk to us 25 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:28,599 for for quite a while. 26 00:01:28,599 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: You didn't want to tell anyone that he was sick 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,640 and I know, yeah, it's unfortunately I tried to reach them. Yeah, 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,079 but anyway, that's kind of a sad note to start 29 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:36,359 off on. 30 00:01:36,599 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: But anyway, it's great to have you back on again. 31 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: Thank you. 32 00:01:39,519 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: And you were one of the busiest people I know 33 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:43,439 in this field. 34 00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 3: I mean, and many times that we've talked to you 35 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,680 just said, oh, I'm just so slammed. And do you 36 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:53,560 still find it exciting? And I mean, you know, a 37 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,439 lot of times when a passion goes to more like work, 38 00:01:58,079 --> 00:01:59,840 it makes things a little tough. 39 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:01,159 Speaker 1: Well. 40 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:05,519 Speaker 4: I think what people don't realize is most people I 41 00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:09,159 think are working working in this It's like i'd call 42 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:13,039 it a side hobby, right, unless you're retired and you 43 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,000 have all the time you want and moneys, you know, 44 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,520 not of any consequence and you can just do that. 45 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,759 But I have four kids and I have like two 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,120 or three day jobs. So when you see me on 47 00:02:25,159 --> 00:02:27,840 the news or things like that, that's completely voluntary. 48 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: Right. 49 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 4: It's only when we're doing a TV show that I 50 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,639 have to put those other things aside and use that 51 00:02:34,759 --> 00:02:38,159 also to pay the bills. So when I pick up 52 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,240 the UFO subjects and get my other work done, There's 53 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,120 only a certain amount of time that we can put 54 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:47,439 into that, right because the news will call you and 55 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:49,360 they'll say, hey, what do you think about the Vatican? 56 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:51,759 Speaker 2: What do they I'm like, I haven't heard about the Vatican. 57 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Got to get up to speed. And yeah. So it 58 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,159 does keep me very busy, but I obviously do it 59 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,479 because so much is happening right now. 60 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,039 Speaker 4: It's happening so quickly that I am passionate about it, 61 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,680 and whatever my part is in it, I want to 62 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:10,120 stay in the game, you. 63 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:12,039 Speaker 1: Know, you know, I have to. 64 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,719 Speaker 3: Even though you said this on one of my shows 65 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:17,560 a long time ago, I used it as a SoundBite 66 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:21,319 in my opening for a number of years. But if 67 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,800 you would just briefly and some type of nutshell talk 68 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,919 about your grandfather's words at the end and how that 69 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,759 all came about. 70 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, So he. 71 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:39,439 Speaker 4: Was first he was infantry, Army, marine infantry World War Two, 72 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,840 and then he retired in about I think fifty two. 73 00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:48,520 We're just now learning that he actually started working with 74 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,319 the Air Force civilian Air Force a few years earlier. 75 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: My dad didn't know. 76 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,159 Speaker 4: And at any rate, he worked at Hill Air Force 77 00:03:57,199 --> 00:04:03,000 Base in Utah for I think thirty something years and 78 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,919 he was a didn't have a degree. He was a 79 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,439 very intelligent innovator though, and he became known as the 80 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:13,120 problem guy. 81 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: You go to him, he'll fix it. 82 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:18,399 Speaker 4: He was very skilled with his hands and was able 83 00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:23,199 to have some specialties. One of them was fixing hangar systems. 84 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,800 You know, we learned that he maintains the hydraulics that 85 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,519 they played the shell game like in you know World 86 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:35,240 War two where or actually the Cold War, where they 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,279 would they didn't want satellites to see how many aircraft 88 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:41,480 you have at a base because you can bring him 89 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:43,199 into a hangar, but then you can stack them on 90 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:45,920 top of each other, you can bring them down different levels. 91 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: Wow. 92 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: Right, So they never really knew. 93 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 4: How many had So anyways, he had a specialty and 94 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:51,639 a lot of those things. 95 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: And about nineteen sixty three. 96 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 4: He came to my dad, who was the oldest, and 97 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,759 told him, Hey, I've been to be part of a 98 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,319 special team that has to be called at a moment's notice, 99 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,480 and I can't tell you where I'm going. 100 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: Sometimes I want to be back. 101 00:05:08,319 --> 00:05:12,439 Speaker 4: And he ended up leaving in about sixty five sixty 102 00:05:12,519 --> 00:05:15,800 four for these temporary duty assignments, which we know a 103 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:22,279 lot of them were at right Patterson. So long story short, 104 00:05:22,519 --> 00:05:25,399 many of those we know exact dates when he was gone, 105 00:05:26,439 --> 00:05:29,199 and my dad felt like it was some sort of 106 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:33,519 emergency team that he hinted at. He's like, well, something 107 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:37,319 like nuclear but different. And so when he get a 108 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:38,439 call in the middle of the night, you have to 109 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:41,720 leave the next day not reachable life phone. 110 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,959 Speaker 2: That caused some problems with my. 111 00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:47,959 Speaker 4: Dad because my grandma was dying at the time, and 112 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,720 so all this kind of my dad held in, kind 113 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,000 of resented that my grandpa was my grandpa. 114 00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: He wasn't around, and so he had cancer. 115 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,399 Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety six, he passed, and as he progressed through 116 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:07,639 the chemo and everything, they started watching TV shows together, 117 00:06:07,759 --> 00:06:11,160 like Unsolved Mysteries, and he would sit back and he'd 118 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,000 watch my dad and we were really obviously into the subject. 119 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:18,079 Speaker 2: Say, Dad, you were there, you were there, right Patterson? 120 00:06:18,759 --> 00:06:20,319 You know, did you ever hear anything about this? 121 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 4: And usually just kind of chuckle, you know, and just 122 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,040 kind of change the subject. But he started saying like, hmm, 123 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,079 that's interesting. It was kind of his way we think 124 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,759 of telling us, And then other parts he'd say, this is. 125 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: Ridiculous, that's crazy. I knew Philip Corso and he was there. 126 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,079 What you knew this guy? So there he is, end 127 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:41,959 of his life. 128 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 4: On his deathbed, and my dad had been asking him forever, 129 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,000 what does this mean? 130 00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: Dad? 131 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 4: Like Ben and I really want to know. And at 132 00:06:51,879 --> 00:06:54,319 one point before he went to the hospital, he got 133 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:56,759 up there in the gym and he said, I think 134 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,600 it's time we leave because they're having a great time. 135 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,199 And he got very stern, and they don't talk about 136 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,879 it again until he's on his deathbed, and without prompting, 137 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:11,600 he was going in and out of lucidity, and he 138 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,600 reached over he squosed my dad's hand and suddenly his 139 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,399 eyes were open. He's talking clearly, and he said, son, 140 00:07:19,279 --> 00:07:21,959 I know what you've been asking me. And he said, 141 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,160 you need to know that we're not alone, and don't 142 00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:27,000 be afraid. Take care of your mother. 143 00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: Wow. And then he passed. 144 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 4: And my dad is certain he wasn't talking about the afterlife. 145 00:07:33,079 --> 00:07:36,160 He wasn't saying, hey, there's life after because he already 146 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:39,040 believed that he had a near death experience in the war. 147 00:07:40,079 --> 00:07:45,360 So this was about whoever they are. And I think 148 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:48,399 I keep telling people he never told us what he knew, 149 00:07:49,399 --> 00:07:51,480 but it seems as if he was in a position 150 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:53,759 to know, because that would be the most horrible joke 151 00:07:54,839 --> 00:07:56,959 to pull on your son, right before you die. 152 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: I know something you don't know? Yeah bye? You know. 153 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was trying to let him know by keeping 154 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:08,399 his oath, he knew enough of something right that there 155 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,199 was more to it and don't be surprised. 156 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:12,759 Speaker 1: And that's something. 157 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: And you know, the question, maybe I bring it up 158 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,639 too much, but I often think that whatever our government 159 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,439 does know is not the full picture, and therefore, how 160 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,040 could they protect us from something they don't know enough about? 161 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,440 And as you know, you know, just by what's progressing. 162 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,919 It's the last time we talked, which has been quite 163 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:38,600 a bit of things have happened. But you know, where's 164 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:39,480 the Air Force. 165 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: On all this stuff? 166 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,799 Speaker 3: You know, you know, you think the air Force is 167 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,039 protecting our skies and the Navy's been I think the 168 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,039 Navy's done an excellent job, you know, with the reporting 169 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:51,600 and all that. 170 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:54,399 Speaker 1: But you just it's it's kind of weird to see 171 00:08:54,799 --> 00:08:55,399 the air Force. 172 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: It's odd that they really haven't been called to the carpet. 173 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, like we've seen the others and they 174 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:06,240 should be probably the lead agency, you would think lead 175 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:09,080 department and all of this because of the history with 176 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:10,559 blue Book and right Patterson. 177 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: And yet I've. 178 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 4: Been told, I mean behind the scenes, that there are 179 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,399 videos that exist. 180 00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:22,039 Speaker 2: We've heard represent Burchett talk about the same thing. There's 181 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:22,679 videos that. 182 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,919 Speaker 4: Exist that are air force videos, right, of things flying 183 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,840 around r F twenty two's and stuff that make it 184 00:09:30,879 --> 00:09:34,440 look like child's play, right, And it doesn't surprise me. 185 00:09:34,519 --> 00:09:36,879 Speaker 2: But you're right. 186 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 4: I think that the people who are the spokespeople, right, 187 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,200 the prs, those that come forward, I think it's possible 188 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,559 they very well could be telling the truth because why 189 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,559 would you even read them in on something if they 190 00:09:51,639 --> 00:09:53,519 then had to keep a secret, they might slip up 191 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,840 on right. Right, So instead of starting to call people 192 00:09:56,879 --> 00:10:00,320 liars and you're covering up, like, let's just step back 193 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,840 and saying, maybe that is the truth to what they know. 194 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, compartmentalized right, Yeah, type of situation. 195 00:10:06,879 --> 00:10:09,159 Speaker 3: And you know what I mean, that's I spoke with 196 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:12,679 ab at the Movefine event last year. I sat for 197 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:16,399 hours and spoke to a retired FBI agent. I know 198 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:19,399 you were in the FBI at one time, and he 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,879 was saying, you know, the problem with the problem with 200 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,559 nine to eleven was with the stove piping, all the 201 00:10:25,639 --> 00:10:29,480 compartmentalizing and nobody knowing the whole picture. And I imagine 202 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,559 that would basically be the same, except with not such urgency, 203 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,360 you know, of the information. 204 00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:36,639 Speaker 2: It's a it's a disease, to be honest. 205 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 4: Take a look at just what happened with the the 206 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,279 It wasn't obviously in New Jersey alone, but yeah, the 207 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:46,919 drone incursions, oh, I know right, still ongoing, by the way, 208 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,360 and nobody's talking about it. 209 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: No, it's faded from you for now. 210 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 4: So what happens again in mass But the thing that 211 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,000 when you have other agencies coming out and publicly saying 212 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,960 help us, do you know what is or we've had 213 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,320 to shut down an air base, several air bases because 214 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,759 of this, We've had to move assets. 215 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have. 216 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,879 Speaker 4: To ask yourself if it's ours very minimal. We have 217 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,840 a big communications problem in the in the IC, absolutely right. 218 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:20,120 If they're not talking to each other and they don't 219 00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:23,559 know what the other hand's doing, that's a big problem, right, 220 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,240 And that's what happened before nine to eleven. 221 00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:27,399 Speaker 2: They weren't talking to each other. 222 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And you know, what I mean the 223 00:11:30,919 --> 00:11:31,559 ahead of time. 224 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 3: I know, you know this that the FAA said they 225 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,120 didn't know what was going on, and then it comes out, 226 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:41,200 Oh yeah, the FAA announced that you know, they had worded. 227 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was acknowledged that these were these were authorized 228 00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:51,440 flights for research and among other things, and other things. 229 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 3: Incursions incursions included. Yeah, which is absolutely crazy. So one 230 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,639 of the things that I see happen it must kind 231 00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:01,519 of irritate you because you have control over it is. 232 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,559 And I know I've heard them say when they announce you, 233 00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:07,200 like on News Nation or maybe not News Nation but 234 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,200 some other channel or something, they'll say UFO expert Ben 235 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:17,080 hands It and UFO expert Nick Popen and it's like, no, 236 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,120 don't say that. 237 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,159 Speaker 1: And I know you don't want to say that, because 238 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,120 no one's a UFO expert. 239 00:12:23,399 --> 00:12:24,519 Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, you could be. 240 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 4: A historian, you could know a lot about the history 241 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,720 of it, but an expert would be an expert mechanic, 242 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,559 maybe someone who can fix things. 243 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: Yeah we can't fix this right now, you know. 244 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And. 245 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,799 Speaker 4: So far there's no accredited I know of degrees that 246 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:46,279 you can get in you apology, So maybe that would 247 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,159 make you an expert in the knowledge of it. 248 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: Yeah right, but. 249 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 2: It's not you could say someone's an expert investigator. 250 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: Yeah right. 251 00:12:55,919 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, it is kind of frustrating. 252 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 4: Because these labels that the news or others will throw 253 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,559 on you, and then people expect you to have the 254 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,519 answers and we're humble and we are being truthful. Yeah, 255 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:12,200 it's like the more you learn, it feels like sometimes 256 00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:13,879 the less you really know what's going on. 257 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 3: It's I think so I say that as a joke, 258 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:18,759 you know, I mean, hare, I am six hundred and 259 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:22,080 sixty some odd episodes in and I don't know any 260 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:22,799 more than I did. 261 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: But I love the puzzle. That's why I stay with it, 262 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:25,919 you know. 263 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 3: And you know, it kind of baffles me that, you know, 264 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,519 mainstream media and not really you know, I mean people 265 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,919 like news nations, you know, I mean they at least 266 00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:37,080 take a look at it all the time there and 267 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:40,720 kudos to them, and I know their viewership went way 268 00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:44,240 up because of that, and so it underserved segment. 269 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,519 Speaker 4: It's an underserved segment. Yes, they need mainstream to look 270 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,000 at that. Yeah, we don't want to be on the fringe. 271 00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:55,840 We don't want to be only looking at entertainment shows. Yeah, 272 00:13:55,879 --> 00:13:59,639 we need the media to cover the UFO hearings, not 273 00:13:59,799 --> 00:14:02,840 just up on Capitol Hill, but the whistleblowers. We need 274 00:14:02,879 --> 00:14:05,240 that information to be able to decide for ourselves. 275 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,639 Speaker 2: Is this bunk? Is this a hoaxer? Is there a disinformation? 276 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,519 Speaker 4: Or can we trust this guy who says that he 277 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,000 had access and no one's reporting on it? 278 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: It's right. 279 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:19,399 Speaker 3: No, I don't remember for sure, but I think I 280 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,600 saw you interviewed about the supposed Las Vegas giant aliens. 281 00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:29,519 Speaker 2: Yes, so there's some people. 282 00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:31,279 Speaker 1: I get a lot of email from people. 283 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,679 Speaker 3: There's some people that email me and they say, this 284 00:14:33,759 --> 00:14:37,200 is there's really something to this, don't ignore it. 285 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. 286 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: Uh what is your. 287 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,399 Speaker 4: Are you talking about the backyard aliens or the giant one, 288 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:46,879 because I'm thinking. 289 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: Of the Miami one, the mall when you say there. 290 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 3: Was one here, but I think there was it was tall, 291 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,759 the ones in Last Vegas. The backyard, Yes, the backyard aliens. 292 00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 4: So when that first broke, we did some analysis on 293 00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:05,679 the videos and stuff that came out, and then we 294 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,279 revisited it and I had a local guy, So one 295 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,679 of the guys on my team was former Las Vegas 296 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:16,440 Metro and he went tried to contact the family, went 297 00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:22,519 by the house and gathered information and stuff. And where 298 00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:23,440 do I stand on that? 299 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not. 300 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 4: Insinuating that the family had done any type of hoax. 301 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,279 They seemed genuine from the people I know that talk 302 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:34,799 to them, seemed very genuine. 303 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:36,759 Speaker 2: I think they were generally scared. 304 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 4: I'm also not saying that they completely blew things out 305 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,519 of proportion, but knowing what we know about witnesses, you 306 00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:46,960 had two things going on. You did have, I think 307 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,759 pretty well established, my opinion, a meteor that lit up 308 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:51,120 the sky. 309 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,919 Speaker 2: It was caught on multiple cameras. 310 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: If you're an actual sonic boom right in someone's backyard 311 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:02,759 cam The organizations that track these things, you know, feel 312 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:05,440 pretty confident they know where it eventually kind of the 313 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,399 area went down. 314 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,759 Speaker 2: You don't always find them, so the skeptics are well 315 00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:11,000 or skeptics. 316 00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:15,159 Speaker 4: But those conspiracy theorists were like, well, you never found one. 317 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,159 Speaker 2: We often don't find these things going down. 318 00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:20,159 Speaker 1: It's like a needle at it. 319 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 4: And did it completely dissolve once you got we don't know, 320 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,919 but you had that happen, and coincidentally, they get this 321 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:35,120 call right, I purpose I'm going to say, I if 322 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,320 I had to put money on it, I bet you 323 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:39,159 none of that came down in their backyard. 324 00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,159 Speaker 2: I bet you that there was a lot of commotion. 325 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,159 It probably lit up the sky where they were. Maybe 326 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:50,200 they heard the sonic boom. There was some confusion. They 327 00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:51,080 go outside. 328 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 4: That's where it gets fuzzy because they claimed that these 329 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,000 things that one was sitting in their back home trailer. 330 00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:02,759 Speaker 2: There was a hey in the backyard. They saw faces. 331 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 4: So they take their cameras and this is where I 332 00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:08,880 have to say, if that's all we have, you then 333 00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:13,680 have the second story revisited. They now are saying that 334 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,559 maybe it wasn't alien, it was maybe more paranormal. 335 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:19,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 336 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had this kind of slant on it. 337 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:23,759 Speaker 4: Maybe it was interdimensional, that it could have been some 338 00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:25,920 sort of like more of a haunting sort of thing. 339 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 2: So I don't know. 340 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 4: The danger though, is when then people take the one video, 341 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,400 like we've been accused of relying on the smoking gun video. 342 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: But the others who want to believe so. 343 00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 4: Badly risk their reputations as experts to come in and 344 00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:50,839 draw lines around amorphous pixels. Right, And that's I was 345 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,079 on NewsNation with that as well, because we have an 346 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,799 animator who is very good and he's on our team 347 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,759 who builds animations in three D modeling, and he showed 348 00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:05,240 how the lighting from the flashlight that these guys going 349 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,880 into the fence easily explains. 350 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: How that kind of shadow appears behind the fence. 351 00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:12,519 Speaker 4: So you just have to ask yourself, is it more 352 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,960 likely there was an eight foot alien hiding behind the 353 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,440 fence and as they go through it suddenly disappears, or 354 00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:23,640 is it likely that this is shadows right right? 355 00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: You know? 356 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 357 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:28,839 Speaker 3: Now, I know you know your interest at least what 358 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,960 you've been involved in and some of the shows that 359 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,400 you're on actually does When you mentioned the word hunting, 360 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,279 I thought, oh, yeah, you know, you've done some work 361 00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:40,200 when it comes to what people think as poltergeist er 362 00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:43,319 things like that. But the question I have and all that, 363 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:52,119 do you think there's any relationship between UFOs and possible hauntings? 364 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: And I remember you probably knew of Paul Eno. 365 00:18:57,519 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 3: Did you, I don't know, he's on the radio for 366 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:03,559 many years on this topic in Rhode Island, but he 367 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,599 thought they were all related, and he thought they were 368 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,680 all inter dimensional. I mean, you know, it's an interesting theory, 369 00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:12,799 but I'm just asking you, do you think they're related 370 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:13,839 in any type of way. 371 00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 4: I think we have to be open to that. People 372 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,880 are kind of always looking for the unified theory. Yeah right, 373 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,759 So take for example, Bigfoot, right. 374 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 375 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,519 Speaker 4: I have talked to so many people that I feel 376 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,279 are very credible, who believe they've seen this face to face, unmistakable. 377 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,440 You could be thirty feet and say that this is 378 00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:39,160 not a guy in a suit, yeah right, And I 379 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,359 have to say there's something to it. But for me, 380 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,240 you're also going to be hard to convince me that 381 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,039 in some of these locations, even deserts and places like that, 382 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:54,720 that he's undiscovered, That some hunter just hasn't shot one, right, 383 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:59,720 that it's just a you know, bipedal, you know, hominid 384 00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:04,079 that is live for all these millennia. I think it's 385 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,559 more likely, as crazy as it is, that sometimes they're 386 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,200 there and sometimes they're not. So I'm open to the 387 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,400 possibility of intermensionalty between that. 388 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: If you want to throw the paranormal. 389 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 4: Into it with spirits, there's got to be another realm there, 390 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,359 so why not extraterrestrial? I just I think people make 391 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,160 too many conclusions what we should basically still be sitting 392 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,920 back on the bleachers, and like, let's look at the 393 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,200 whole field, like we don't really know what's going on. 394 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,079 Speaker 2: It could come from there. 395 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 4: We could have travelers actually in structured craft nuts and 396 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,920 bolts coming from far away using another physics, say another 397 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,359 but when we don't understand right to travel through whatever 398 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,240 bending space and time, quantum physics or and they could. 399 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: Be here, yes, right, so it could overlap. Right, So 400 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,559 a lot has happened. I can't remember. I think it's 401 00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:01,079 been three or four years since you've been on the show. 402 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,559 I've had so I think. So the way time is flying, 403 00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:08,279 a lot's happened in that time. 404 00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:14,039 Speaker 1: And how do you think things are going overall? 405 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you know you've been at this 406 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,759 a lot longer than I I've been doing the show 407 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:23,240 since twenty eleven, and I get real excited about some 408 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:26,480 things and then like that, it's like the back and forth, 409 00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:29,200 two steps forward, one back type of situation. 410 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: Do you feel like the needle is moving at this point? 411 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,559 Speaker 2: I do? 412 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,599 Speaker 4: I do, And And you know people might hate me 413 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,319 for this because the book I'm trying to write, I'd 414 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,039 say it's sort of a cautionary tale, and I don't 415 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,720 want people to misunderstand me, because I'm all for it 416 00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:48,519 just like everyone else. 417 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: I want disclosure right. 418 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,799 Speaker 4: But I don't have an agenda to tell people they 419 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,200 they need to release it all right now or whatever, 420 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,799 because what I've researched is it needs to be done right. 421 00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:04,319 Speaker 2: We only get one one shot at this, So. 422 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,039 Speaker 4: I personally don't think there's a formulized, structured plan within 423 00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:12,519 the government because no offense government. 424 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:13,759 Speaker 2: They know that. 425 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:16,039 Speaker 4: They mess up big things that just look at COVID, right. 426 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,720 So there's a lot of people scrambling. I've heard there's 427 00:22:18,759 --> 00:22:21,480 a couple of think tank groups who, if they're in 428 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:23,680 the know, they're trying to figure out how to do this. 429 00:22:25,279 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 2: I would say, I believe we live. 430 00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:31,519 Speaker 4: In the most wonderful country in the world that has 431 00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:35,599 our best interests primarily in mind. And with that kind 432 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,559 of I guess faith that most people are trying to 433 00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:42,680 do the right thing. If they're in you know, possession 434 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,279 of this knowledge that it's pretty much like they know 435 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,359 it's going to come out at some point without them 436 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:49,160 doing anything. 437 00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: M hm. 438 00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:52,519 Speaker 4: So how do we do it and having some control 439 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:56,400 over it so that we don't have people keep using 440 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,119 the term catastrophic disclosure. 441 00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:00,559 Speaker 2: I think it's much more nuance than that. 442 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 4: And my master's was an emergency disaster management, So I'm 443 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,960 a professional crisis manager and trying to let the world know, like, look, 444 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,440 we've got to look at a few things, help the 445 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,880 government help themselves. 446 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:14,799 Speaker 2: Who can do this right? 447 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 4: I don't know if that makes sense, So I'm not 448 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,359 pushing for rip off the band aid. I'm also not 449 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,960 pushing for a drip over the next twenty five years. 450 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,119 There's got to be a happy medium where we can 451 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,519 help most people assimilate. 452 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: To what's going to come out. 453 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 3: Right, And when it comes to national security, I can 454 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:36,599 understand why they have to, you know, not give the 455 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,319 full picture in some things, because this type of knowledge 456 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:44,880 would be very powerful, for one if and it's also 457 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,200 could be used to make a power play with adversaries 458 00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:52,400 in some type of way, you know, yes, or could 459 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,119 be used against us in the same way from another country. 460 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,440 That being said, you know, it's almost like egocentric or 461 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,720 something like, it's always about the United States. But I'm 462 00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:11,200 wondering what you think about if other countries had about 463 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,680 the same knowledge we do. 464 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: Do we share with other countries. What do you what 465 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,640 do you a extent? 466 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:21,559 Speaker 4: I know, like after the Cold War there were there's 467 00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:23,960 some back channels probably between let's say Russia and the 468 00:24:24,039 --> 00:24:25,519 United States comparing notes. 469 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:26,039 Speaker 1: Hmm. 470 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,519 Speaker 2: Probably even with China. 471 00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 4: We're probably kind of talking with them about what what 472 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,960 do you think is we're as humanity? That's one thing 473 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,359 that is President Reagan always said, imagine if there's a 474 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,480 threat from out there, Yeah, that could be one unifying 475 00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:42,000 factor for us, all right, like how do we deal 476 00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:44,119 with this problem or this opportunity. 477 00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: So I do think there's some talk going on. 478 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 4: I don't know if there is a an accord, you know, 479 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:55,119 where it's like who's going to make the announcement? But 480 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,079 I know the US has their hand just about everywhere. 481 00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: I know. They show up. 482 00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 3: You know, you talk with someone like James Fox about 483 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,640 the Vargina incident in Brazil and they showed up there, 484 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,640 and you hear it all the time, and they show 485 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:11,640 up quickly. 486 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 4: And it seems like they defer to the US and 487 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,759 just like, well, whether it's aid that we're providing their country, 488 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,920 we threatened to do something else. But they don't seem 489 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,240 to be much of a fight if we're collecting this 490 00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:25,119 from them as well. 491 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: They know that kind of we are the. 492 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 4: Center of collection, you know, So it's hard to say, 493 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,440 you know, if one of these countries might go roguean 494 00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:36,160 just say forget it. 495 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: We're going to make the announcement. Yes, right, And that 496 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,200 I think is it would be a big fear that 497 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,279 would be I would think. No. 498 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 3: I don't know if you ever followed any part of 499 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,640 There's only been two interviews, three total, and I was 500 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,480 lucky enough to do two of them with a gentleman 501 00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:56,599 named Jonathan Wygant. He had a carew incident in nineteen 502 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,480 ninety seven. I do so, yeah, But I mean the 503 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:02,440 thing about that is, you know, he shows up, he 504 00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:05,759 climbs up this ledge, he sees the craft wedged into 505 00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:08,920 the rock with fluid coming out, changing colors and bizarre 506 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:12,200 story and then an arm hanging out like a bluish 507 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:15,960 arm hanging out and feeling like he's getting a telepathy, 508 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,039 like he thinks the thing is dying. And then all 509 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,200 of a sudden, these guys and Mike Carrera talks about 510 00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:25,319 a very similar thing. You know later that these guys 511 00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:31,000 show up in black fatigues with American weapons, and Jonathan 512 00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:37,960 claims that his conclusion, he's Jonathan whoever anyone thinks about 513 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,960 Jonathan's He's highly intelligent and I know that because hours 514 00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,119 long in conversations with him. He thinks they were from 515 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,839 the Department of Energy, and I wanted to get your opinion. 516 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,400 What would you think about that? He said they had 517 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,079 American weapons, they were American And. 518 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 4: I can't remember it's his case or one of the 519 00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:59,440 others where they suspected that these were private aerospace. They're 520 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,440 obviously former operators, you know, with different units that then 521 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,039 go work for private aerospace because of the deal they 522 00:27:06,079 --> 00:27:10,440 have where it's not their first rodeo and the precision 523 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,119 they come in and do that to take control over it, 524 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:20,240 and then you're also siloed away from the the foyer, 525 00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:24,759 the oversight and everything, right yeah, yeah, So I don't 526 00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:28,480 know having it within the DOE. They're they're very expert 527 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:33,839 at taking control of sensitive materials and handling it whenever 528 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,359 they transport a warhead. Right, So that makes sense, But 529 00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:39,839 if you're trying to keep it out of the purview 530 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,359 of the official structure, you would it makes sense also 531 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,599 to have a third party do it. 532 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,759 Speaker 3: Now, speaking of that, you know, we had come close 533 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:52,839 to the Schumer Rounds Bill where there was like eminent 534 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,880 domain if there was any you know, into private entities 535 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,279 and they would be fined if they didn't reply and 536 00:27:58,319 --> 00:27:59,079 all that stuff. 537 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: And then you know, there's a lot of money and. 538 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,039 Speaker 3: Power in these corporations and things changed quickly when it 539 00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:08,119 comes to any type of threat like that. 540 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:10,559 Speaker 1: But do you think that it was a step. 541 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:13,279 Speaker 3: Too far of the eminent domain, like we need this 542 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,599 material from you. 543 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: I'm sure you know the backstory of that, right. 544 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,759 Speaker 4: So when I was talking to Travis Taylor and he 545 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,039 was presenting, oh, Jay Stratton was actually presenting as well, 546 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,319 he kind of filled in and he said, look, I 547 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,160 personally didn't ask Brandon Feugel about it, but the three 548 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,119 of them were kind of the push supposedly to not 549 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,480 support the Schumer bill because of the imminent domain part, 550 00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:40,519 where if you have a place like Skinwalk Ranch and 551 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:43,960 you find something on it, they're worried that that material 552 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,079 or craft or whatever would then become the property of 553 00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:49,680 the government. I think they were fully in favor of 554 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,880 everything else, but they may have been a large part 555 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,079 of the lobbying and the impetus to get them to 556 00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:00,680 end that then of course you have reports reresentatives who 557 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,480 are in places like Ohio. You know, yeah, that we're 558 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,039 against it because of the aerospace connections. Yes, that's the 559 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,799 other I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, but if they 560 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,400 had skin in the game, yeah. 561 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: And they're kind of telling them. 562 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:19,359 Speaker 4: Hey, look like, if we did have something, let's say 563 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,160 we did have materials, we don't want the government just 564 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,799 to come in and take control over it. So who knows. 565 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,799 It seems like a no brainer. Yeah, you know that 566 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,839 you would, you would put that in it would get passed. 567 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,799 But if they got rid of it, would it have passed? 568 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,720 Maybe they should try it, and so what happens. 569 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 3: I understand it might be tried again, so hopefully, Well, 570 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,680 I know we both have something going on, and this 571 00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:46,279 is kind of a short end of view, but I 572 00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:48,680 feel like I could talk to you for another few hours, but. 573 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Sorry I cut it short. I 574 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,079 was sorry lecturing here a little bit later at the conference. 575 00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:56,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure 576 00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:58,000 and hope to have you back again. 577 00:29:58,079 --> 00:29:59,759 Speaker 2: Thanks Martin. Great to see you.