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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a radio thing. Variety, give people a variety,

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and that's what we do on aero dot net a

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r r oe dot Net. It's not just a podcast

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with rock stars and movie stars. Oh, it's about lifestyle

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and beyond. It's variety a r r oe dot Net.

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Enjoy the exploration. Hello and good morning. How are you

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doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm good? How are you?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely fantastic? Rob Man? We're you at these days?

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Speaker 2: I'm up in New York City where we have a

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sleep store.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we're down here in the Carolinas where it's

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down here. We got down to seventeen last night, so yeah, okay,

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I just want to know if we're sharing the same

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kind of cold.

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Speaker 2: Well where you guys have been freakishly hit with all

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kinds of bad weather recently. Yeah, we have.

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Speaker 4: What does that do for you as a writer, because

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I know that as a daily writer, for me and

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somebody who shares stories, the weather conditions can fit right

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into a storyline. Do you use the same kind of energy?

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Speaker 2: Not an a way you suggest? In New York City,

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I have two windows that look outside. In the summer,

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I want to look at green. In the winter, I

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retreat into an office with no windows. So it's a

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question of when you want to be distracted and when

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you just want to be in your head.

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Speaker 4: I got to let you know that I'm actually broadcasting

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from a library right here in downtown Charlotte and overlooking

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Seventh Street in Bavard. So to share a conversation with

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somebody who has allowed writing to become such a major

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part of their lives is so important to the people

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who are here to learn how to become storytellers. And

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so I mean, it's amazing what you have done with

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The Impossible Detective, because it sounds like that you made

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an exploration here that really takes us into a modern age.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's more than a modern age. I never

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I've always tried to write my novels in a way

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that I'm addressing important issues in society. I never liked.

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I never liked the term artificial intelligence. And if you

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think about it, some Gus marketing guy came up with

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that term because it implies to us that we are superior.

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It's artificial. We don't really consider it as a threat,

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but I consider AI think of it as a moral intelligence. Right.

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It still has power, but it doesn't have empathy. It

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doesn't have morals, it doesn't have Christianity, it doesn't have religion.

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It just makes decisions. And now we're about to hand

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over all kinds of important decisions in society to this

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amorl entity. And the only thing that's lacking to make

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it truly dangerous at this point is were to become conscious.

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And so I did research on this. I spoke to experts,

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I spoke to military experts, and when I started the book,

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people would say, well, consciousness might be possible in twelve years.

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Then it became ten years, then eight, and six, then five,

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And so I wanted to write a book about the

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very first second, the very first second when AI becomes

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conscious but nobody knows it yet except AI, and it

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has and it has the power to make choices, choices.

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What would the very voice choice be?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And that's what's scary about this, because I mean, everybody's

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running to chat GPT and every gunk or grunk or

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whatever it is, and they're trying to get information. But

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what happens if that AI turns like you're saying, and

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all of a sudden, it's not expecting our questions, it's

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just doing it. And That's what I love about The

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Impossible Detective is the fact that you put us in

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a position of where we get to sit inside something

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that we just kind of put to the side, but

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we can't anymore because we're going to pay attention to it.

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Speaker 2: We have to pay attention to it. You know. It's interesting.

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It's already affecting our lives in so many ways. It's

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so interesting to me that you're in a library because

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I bet every author who has a book in that

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library has had a similar experience to the one I

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had just last week. All authors I know are periodically

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contacted by people who are offering to for money, of course,

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improve their website, improve their rich improve their publicity. Recently,

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these letters, these emails that we get from these people

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have changed suddenly. The people seem to have read our

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books that will flir to specific passages. They seem like people.

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It's a Nigerian scam. It's AI that's contacting us. And

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I bet everyone listening to you today is being contacted

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by AI daily, dealing with it daily. Personally. It drives

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me nutt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you the way that I've handled

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it with podcasting, because you're absolutely right. They're sending these letters.

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They make it sound like they're emotionally and compassionately involved

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in what's going on. And so I'll send them a

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simple question. I'll go, so, what was I thinking about

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before I posted this interview? Please tell me, expecting them

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to give me an answer, going you didn't say anything,

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but they won't even say that.

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Speaker 3: That's how I know it's a fake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny coming up with strategies. My next

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strategy will be because I got about six of days

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a week, So the next one that comes in, whatever

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the solicit is, I'm going to send them back a

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message that says, my wife and I ordered a pizza

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from you last week and it was cold, and the

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salaman was bad and the meat walls were bad. What's

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going on with your pizzas? And I'm curious if it's

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ai how it will reas farm.

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Speaker 4: The story itself in The Impossible Detective is set in

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New York City. Now, of course that excites me because

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I love the city for its size, But I think

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there's more to it than that that put it inside

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this book.

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Speaker 2: You know, the hero in this An Impossible Detective, lives

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on Edgar Allan Poet Street, where he lived and which

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is six blocks away from my apartment. I thought, what

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better place to have AI breakout than here? And what

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happened with this book was interesting the way I've got

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like twenty five books, but none of the books until

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this happened this way. RKO Films came to me about

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two years ago and they had a franchise that you

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maybe familiar with from the fifties called The Falcon. I

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had a hero, George Saunders played the Falcon. Tom Conway

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played the Falcon, and they were looking to bring the

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franchise back to life and they wanted to know if

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I had any interest in doing that. They wouldn't tell

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me what to do. I could make it totally modern,

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I could do whatever I wanted. And I said to them,

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you can't see the drafts and they agreed, you will

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have no input and they agreed, and so, yeah, who's

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going to turn that down? Ron?

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Speaker 3: So did you not know that that was an AI

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letter that was sent to you? Come on now?

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Speaker 4: I would have said, Ah, this is fake, there's no way.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're right, you're right. The way I knew is

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that I went I physically went to the agent representing

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them's apartment in Manhattan and we sat down and you know,

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we had a negotiation. There were human voices, and then

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we were in a restaurant. So what unless they were robuts,

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which maybe in the future a I could do. I

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knew these were real people.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm going to bring that up because that's one

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of my questions today is that do you think that

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the future is full of robots? Because I'm that kid

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that used to have those little you know, those robots

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that you would have with a remote control. And I

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never believed it then and I still don't believe it

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today that they will be in control. What's your gut

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with all the research that you've done, well.

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Speaker 2: With all the research I've done, I'm more concerned about

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other ways that AI could get it as Yeah, sure

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there could be robots. I mean, I've visited the Robotics

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place over at Columbia University for this I mustand that

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at what robots are being able to do. But it's

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what AI is already able to do that's so frightening.

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You know, I've read rand reports on how states like

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China and Russia are using AI. Corporations are firing people

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firing white and blue collar workers both and replacing them

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with AI. And just yesterday I thought of another possibility

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which really freaks me out, which is when you talk

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to experts about AI, you know, who are doubtful that

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it might be negative in the future. They'll say, well,

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we'll just program it to do this, or we'll just

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program it to do that. But think about this, because

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I bet you and every single person listening to us

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today has had this experience. We write an email to

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someone we know, we think that the email is clear,

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it turns out that it's not clear. They misinterpreted it,

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and suddenly we're in a fight. So who is to say?

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And I teach writing and oftentimes people will write things

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that don't reflect what they're really thinking. So sooner or

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later a programmer will do that. A programmer will tell

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AI to do something, thinking that they just gave it

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a clear command. AI will interpret it differently. God knows

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what will happen.

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Speaker 4: Then, well, yeah, anytime you go in to chat GPT

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and you ask a question, or if you're trying to

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get them to do a logo for you, and it

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has to sit there and ask questions, I'm going you

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have no idea who I am? You have no idea

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the emotion of what I put into this. Okay, I'm

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going on to the next thing because chat GPT you're

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not doing it for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, at this point we still have enough discernment

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to understand that it is chat GBT. But you know,

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just last night I was reading this Ramp Corporation report

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on chat GBT and they said it's getting harder and

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harder and harder for people to distinguish between real and fake,

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and it will only continue to get harder.

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Speaker 1: Please should not move. There's more with Bob Reese coming

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up next. The name of the book, The Impossible Detective.

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We are back with author Bob Reese.

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Speaker 4: So let me ask you this question when you talk

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about this book being a sci fi The Impossible Detective. Okay,

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so if we feel that it's going to happen, then

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why is it still qualified sci fi if we think

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it's going to be factual.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question. I don't consider it sci fi.

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I consider it speculative fiction. Speculative fiction, and a lot

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of my fection is this because I really like to

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think what could happen. My background is as a journalist

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and a novelist, and you know, and it's interesting because

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I always want to pick off on the topic I'm

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concerned about, when do you do it as a journalist?

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When do you do it as a novelist. Well, you

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do it as a journalist when the bad thing has

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already happened and you're covering it. But how do you

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cover something that you're afraid of that hasn't happened yet.

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That's when it becomes speculative fiction. That's when you tell

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the same story of what could happen, but not with

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a flow chart or an algorithm or a speech, but

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with real people going through the issue, and with something

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like this, which is ai a moral intelligence. The challenge

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is it's easy to make a sci fire movie like

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Arnold Schwazener artificial intelligence has taken over, right, and it's

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fifty years in the future. But what if you're writing

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about something that could happen today at five o'clock this evening,

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and the world is the stand except somewhere secretly in

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some apartment, the tiny little change happens that changes the

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whole world. That you have to do with fiction. You

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have to have people, you have to have you have

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to have an issue. You know, this is a private

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detective book, The Impossible Detective. There is a private detective

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on the surface underneath all these issues.

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Speaker 4: So now would you qualify this then as a true

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crime because I mean in reality, I mean there's some

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bad things are going to happen here for the readers

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and to me that get you know what, what what

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is the new definition of crime?

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Speaker 2: Well, crime is we all know what crime is. I

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would still make the speculative fiction before, as you say,

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you could call it speculative crime. Science fiction is fiction. Clearly,

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this book is made up, so it's fiction when I write.

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When I write nonfiction, believe me, I stick with facts.

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It's still storytelling. You still have good characters, you still

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have to make choice, but it's facts. I don't believe

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there's a blurring of fact and fiction. You really keep

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it separate. So this would be speculative political fiction.

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Speaker 4: So now as that author are you received the letters

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as well from the publishers as well as the people

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that are distributing the book in the way of saying,

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we need to know that one hundred percent that this

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has nothing to do with AI technology, because they're doing

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that with podcasters where they want to make sure that

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we are authentic, that we are not relying on AI

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because they've got to go out there and put it

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on their platform. So as an author, what does that

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do for you?

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Speaker 2: Well, as an author, I have different kind of dealings

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with AI. Okay, the publisher knows that I'm a human being,

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so I'm not going to get a suspicious letter who

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are you? But the way I'm dealing with AI is

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and this surprised me. Over the last year, I've been

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contacted by two lossuits. These are class action lawsuits, one

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against Meta I think, and one against this other outfit.

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And both of those outfits have used I think eight

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of my books to train their large language models. And

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so now this is in the courts now in one

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I got a letter the other day that come to

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us littlement, but thousands of This is a one point

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five million dollar settlement for the authors all around the

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country whose works have been used without their knowledge to

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trade to train. That's the way I deal with it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I got to tell you this, And this

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is to go along with people who are still trying

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to understand what AI technology is. Is the fact that

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I even went to the AI technology and asked them,

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could you help me write my show prep so that

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I can go into it better prepared? And it literally

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told me no, because it went back and it listened

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to every all the questions, the styles that I had,

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and it says, I can't put the emotion in it

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that you do.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was an honest one, but yeah, yeah, I mean,

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but how many people have programmed there for honesty? And

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if you take a survey of professors, as you know,

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more and more of them are seeing their class papers

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come and written by AI, letters being written by AI.

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It's sort of like and writing skills. As writing skills

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decline in the population, more and more people are going

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to be relying on AI.

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Speaker 4: Don't you think though that you cause I'll tell you

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what the one thing that The Impossible Detective has really

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done for my imagination. It reminds me so much of

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those early holiday or Hollywood films where it shows the

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rocket crashing into the moon, and really, as we've lived

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it today, that's not really what happens. But the fact

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is is that you're identifying AI technology in The Impossible

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Detective and how it affects us as human beings, and

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people aren't talking about this, So that makes you a

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pioneer of sorts in the way of writing stories.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's pioneer. Writers have always

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anticipated things, you know, HG. Wells.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I saw this movie from nineteen thirty two the other night,

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Things to Come, Things to Come, And it's an HG.

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Well Well's film based on a story he wrote anticipating

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World War Two, anticipating rockets, anticipating all this kind of stuff.

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So I think this is what writers do, if we're

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doing it right. Somehow, writers can synthesize the patterns that

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are evident every day, and following those patterns, they predict

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what's going to happen next, or if we keep going

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in this direction, what it'll be like in five years,

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ten years, twenty years, one hundred years. And so often

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they're right.

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Speaker 4: Wow, where can people go to find out more about you?

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Speaker 2: Rob?

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Speaker 4: Because you just talked about all of the books that

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you've got published, and you're also a journalist. I want

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people to tap into your multiple personalities as well as

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your walk in way of reaching people as that writer.

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It's so important that we talk about being a writer

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because a lot of people would rather go to a

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computer to have it written for them.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for us in that question. And certainly my

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wife is always asking about multi personality. So in a

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loving way and a loving way, the way they could

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find is Bob Reese, Bob r EISs Rees. Bobrees dot

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com is my website and has the twenty five books

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and journalism and speeches and if you want to bring

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me in to give a speech, how to contact me

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all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 4: You got to come back to this show anytime in

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the future. The door is always going to be open

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for you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would love to come back. I love talking

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with you. These questions are terrific.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you what I've got so many for

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twenty twenty six. I have so many conversations coming up

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with people of AI technology that I feel like that

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I should invite you into a zoom link and you

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participate with it in the way that you bring your knowledge.

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I come from my side of it, and we ask

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these pros you know what's going on, because if we

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don't talk about it, how are we going to help

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shape it.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing about AI. See, every time throughout history

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there has been a new invention, there has been an

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argument will this be good for your manity? Or will

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this be bad for your manager? But here's the deal. See,

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here's the difference. This AI is the very first time

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that the invention will be able to think for itself.

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The invention will be able to make choices for itself.

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And the invention has already surprised the makers of itself

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with abilities that even they didn't think it could have.

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Oh my god, So how could they assure us? How

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could they be so positive that there will be no

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negative effects? Here? It's already affecting every aspect of our lives.

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It will continue to do that, it will affect more

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and more. How much power do we want to give it?

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And the last thing, you know, Donald Trump, I think

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even this week is urging New York State to stop

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trying to control AI, to stop having any kind of

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oversight of AI. That's the battle of the future. How

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do we want to oversee this thing?

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Speaker 3: Yep?

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Speaker 4: Because we have an AI as are now they just

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announced the ais are.

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Speaker 2: And the purpose of the ais are. If it's federal,

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we'll probably be to try to shut down any overser.

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Speaker 3: You're right, you're right, you're right.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Well, please come back to this show anytime in

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the future.

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Speaker 2: Sir, I accept, thank you and thank you for having

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me today.

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Speaker 3: You be brilliant today. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I love compliments, strength,