Speaker 1: What is up, fellasickos, I am Dan Valley coming at
you with mister Moore Jansen of the NBA podcast, fame
of Yahoo's Boards, fame of HBO Max fame of course
only fans celebrity quick your next team more?
Speaker 2: All right, Obviously we have to coach to the Sacramento
Kings because their needs are vast many. I don't I
don't even want to key in on something. They just have.
They have need everywhere. This is an organization that that
probably just needs to start over, frankly, So take your pick, sir,
Like where do we even feel comfortable? Look, I love
the Darius Acuff selection, but even him, like he's got
a need need for to be able to play defense,
because that's not something he does a whole bunch. Like
there's not a single player on this team where I'm like,
oh yeah, nailed it at this point, even though again
love a cup, just no, just needs everywhere. There's not
a position I feel comfortable with. There's not a skill
set I feel comfortable with. There's not a uh a
spot on the floor where I just go, oh yeah, yeah,
they got this covered, like from the three point line
or whatever. Like, No, this just I do not trust
this team as far as I can throw it, and
that's because they have needs up the wazoo. So just
take your pick in terms of like what you think
Dan is like the most pressing one. I'm just gonna
go all over on this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, like a single identifiable need. When I
was thinking about that, my notes are kind of all
over the place. Could you, like, what is the overarching
philosophy of this roster? Or even because you could say
chartered exist, what did.
Speaker 2: You say to exist?
Speaker 1: That's just philosophy.
Speaker 2: That's because there's no logic here. There's no philosophy. There's
absolutely no thing going on on. This roster is just
cashing checks, getting up shots, going home. It's this is
the most ridiculous roster construction in the NBA currently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I still like Keegan Murray and you did
just draft a cuffs I think you could point to
and say you can't guarantee their pillars. But then like,
I still I really liked and Ee Clifford coming into
his rookie season was a little bit disappointed me. They
found like getting what they did out of Dylan Cardwell
or Maxim Reno last year. Those were nice fines for them,
but you are right, there's the only shot they have
at a higher end, long term cornerstone right now. As
much as I still believe a health and Keegan Murray
can kill it, it is a cuff. And I don't
I wasn't big on him or Flemings necessarily coming out
of the draft. And I know a lot of people
they're already getting on me about my Flemings take there.
So we'll see how pans out. I'm assuming he'll at
least have a cuff. I'm talking about a ton of
license on this team, but they are pretty Zach Lvine's here,
Maligue Monk is here. At least a martyro And is gone.
There's this team is They're the quintessential. I wish that
we were doing this a little later on because there
has to be like more stuff to come from. If
it's just, oh, we're gonna wave to Martin Rosen, then
we're gonna stretch that salary and that's the big move
of the summer would be wildly disappointing here.
Speaker 2: Agreed, Do we even have more to say? Can we skip?
Speaker 1: Can't skip them? That'd be rude. Let's go too, But yeah,
we can make it.
Speaker 2: Move on.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's go to Let's go to Denver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: So they're interesting because at the end of the season
Ben Tenzer and John Wallace had come out and said,
I believe that they need defense, athleticism, and ball handling.
They have since added Trayvon Brazil the number thirty five pick,
Bryce Hopkins the number forty nine pick, re signed Tyas Jones,
and then signed Marvin Beckley the third. I'm not sure
which of those needs were dressed with any of those
those moves. I think Brazil in theory, okay, there's athleticism
and maybe some stretch or some defense if he's blocking shots.
A lot of this hinges on what's gonna happen with
Peyton Watson. So what do they need? They need a
resolution to the Peyton Watson situation, But beyond that, it's
what else do they like? You look, what is the
bigger need, the biggest the single when you're because I
was going back and forth between, you could say it's defense.
But if you look at their core lineups, especially if
we assume Peyton Watson is back, they should be able
to game it correctly. I found myself gravitating towards ball handling.
I thought about shooting because they lost Tim Hardaway Junior.
It's ultimately not shooting because I think that Nicola jokicch
will just give you and Jamal Murray by virtue of
having them both. That's a top three offense is basically
or four at this point. So is it? Is it athleticism?
But is that a weird thing to say when Peyton
Watson might be back and you still have.
Speaker 2: Christian gravit guy? That's one guy. Frankly, I think this
is the team that should complete a deal with Memphis
because Memphis, as we saw, like twenty players on the
contract currently, like they need.
Speaker 1: I'll take the over on that, just.
Speaker 2: Kidding, no, But like it's Cam Johnson, right, like twenty
three million. Can you go to Memphis and say, look,
you get an expiring Cam Johnson at twenty three million,
will solve your roster crunch? Just give us debt? Is
that a thing?
Speaker 1: What do you want from me? Because you're you're making
your I think Cam Johnson is really important to this team.
Speaker 2: Especially free but like then okay, then Christian Brown, but
like then you're gonna have to commensate them, because you're
you're asking them to take on future money.
Speaker 1: Man. That is so so I get well, so I
would need to see, like what are you propose Cam
Johnson for? Who? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, so let's let's see.
Speaker 1: Let's see could you get a spencer? And like is
Jalen Wells that's the prices that's not enough to get down.
Speaker 2: So you have twenty three if you want to look
like you're going into a candy shopping you have twenty
three millions to burn basically here and you need to
align that so like you're not gonna get sack Ey
sent a coward with some of those guys, Chris Murray
you can probably get right, you should be able.
Speaker 1: Boody want well, I mean why would you? I guess
to save money?
Speaker 2: Sure, I'm look, this is a way to get some
depth onto the roster. And I guess what can they do?
They they're so expensive. They have like Jokic and Murray
earning fifty plus. Then you have Aaron Gordon checking in
at fordy plus, you have Cam Johnson at twenty three,
you have Christian Brown at twenty one. If them research
and oh yeah, you've got to resign Peyton Watson too,
so like, at some point, something's got to give, like
if there's if there is a package to be found,
it has to be with a team that is just
completely overstocked with on contract unmovable contracts. Like No, though,
I do think Chris Murky can even be aggregated right now.
Speaker 1: No, right, Memphis did not acquire him with cap space,
so probably not unless they I mean, he could be
before the season, he could be aggregated again, So.
Speaker 2: That okay, all right, fair enough?
Speaker 1: But like, so would you do something that is Memphis
doing because this doesn't solve their bodies problem. If anything,
it might make it worse. But are you doing Cam
Johnson Christian Brown and then getting off the Zekenology deal
and in exchange you get Cam Spencer and KCP? Maybe
can Gigi Jackson come back in that deal? Do you
need to your swap if you're denver? Is this my asking? Too?
Much of it depends on I have no idea what
Christian Brown's tree value would be.
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's that's tough.
Speaker 1: I do assume it's low, though otherwise I feel as
if he wouldn't be on the team right now in
real line, I.
Speaker 2: Agree, but like that my point larger point is this
is kind of the type of deal Denver has to
go look for because this is not a deep team.
It's it's not and that's a problem if you want
to compete for a championship. What I have, which I
have to assume is still the priority when you have
Nicola freaking Jokic on your team. Who's in this prime?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because so if they run back the thing I
don't buy. I'm assuming was it you were Grant I
talked to about this post the report from the Steinline
that they're not necessarily under a mandate to shed salary.
I have a I would be pleasantly surprised if that
were the case, if they decide not to shed salary.
But I have a hard time believing that after getting
bounced in the first round, they're going to go into
the second apron to keep the same team. That's what
I have a hard time believe, for argument's sake, if
they keep the same team. So you're bringing back Peyton Watson,
You're bringing back Spencer Jones. How many trustworthy players deep
does this rotation go? There's the starting five plus Peyton Watson,
or if you want to at Christian Brown, the starting
five place Christian Brown. That gives you six. I'd probably
be wanting to throw the you know, the the jump
shot is very weird looking, but I did go in
more than I thought it would. I'd be willing to
throw Spencer Jones in there. But I don't know that
Tias is in a circle of trust anyway, Like he
has not been good, good enough, not after the year
before last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought he was a little underrated that year.
I understand why they're skepticism. I was found out on him.
I am now because Jesus the type of year he
just had. No but there's not a lot of trust.
That's and that's why, like you need to have more
bites of the apple, and this is probably the only
way that you get it.
Speaker 1: What is also fascinating is seven of their eight most
used Nicole jokicch lineups last year were underwater defensively, only
two of them ranked higher than the thirty fourth percentile.
Maybe a healthy Aaron Gordon kind of solves that. I
just don't know, you, Like, I just I don't know
how they go about getting like better on a higher
end because they're so assets strapped and also the players
you would need to move to do it. Like the
deal would be to me if in a perfect world
you're moving Christian Brown and or Zeke Nausey and attaching
someone or something to get better, but they don't have
the assets to do that. We're talking about can you
attach Cam Johnson to that, in which case that becomes
a functional sacrifice. And also you're moving a ton of
money at once. That's what they're in. Just such a
tough spot and even trying to go out there and
acquire depth at this point, I don't like, is Zeke
Naugy plus a swap getting you anything? I don't like.
That's and that's assuming they're willing to just foot the bill.
Speaker 2: For this roster, right. No, so yeah, I guess I didn't.
Speaker 1: Boil it down to a single biggest need. I'm gonna say,
why do I want to go? Do I want to
say ball handling, ball hangling?
Speaker 2: Creation?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say that just seems so stupid on a
team with Jokic, But as we saw during the playoffs,
that would have gone a long way to have another
reliable creator. Yeah, so I'll go with that. But you
could talk me into athleticism just with Aaron Gordon getting older,
and especially now if you if you tell me Peyton
Watson's gone, then I think this becomes an incredibly easy
exercise to rank.
Speaker 2: I am going to go with Dallas Mavericks, and the
need that I have there is guards question mark. So
I don't We don't know about Kyrie. It's basically the
long end of it this, like we just don't know
what kind of quality he's going to be at when
the ball tips off next season. We have no idea.
We can sit here and we can hope that he's
the Kyrie Irving of Hold, or we can perhaps acknowledge
that there is a level of skepticism as to whether
he can be that player. Right, So he's not that guy?
Where do you go here? Like who is going to
be the one who can consistently set up Cooper Flag
and Maurice Johnson? Like who is going to be the
guy who consistently proves himself starting caliber worthy? Is it
Ryan Nimhart, is it Marcus Sasser, Sergio de Lerara? I
don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that player would be on the roster.
Brendan Williams is unsigned right now, and I think that
I still have their biggest need, I have guard creation
and also shooting. Just they were the non Cooper Flag
players were in the sixteenth percentile of catching shoot three
point efficiency last year, and then Flag himself was in
the eighth percentile of it. Getting Kyrie back helps, But
I think even right now you mentioned Sergio de la Area,
there's a lot on his shoulders then, or Marcus Sasser.
It's just like if this team, let's they're fine because
Naji Marshall can get downhill, Kyrie Irving's coming back. We
know Cooper Flag can get downhill. Just even with Klay
Thompson here, there's just not a ton of shooting. And
I'm like, this is I don't know if that this
counts as a need, but why are they continuing to
build a roster where Cooper Flag just isn't the day
facto for or the default four?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, agreed, agreed, I roster construction is a problem.
So maybe their need is a roster construction symmetry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they have because who is there? You
have Kyrie and I really do like Max Christie, but
the confidence level in guards kind of drops off there.
Yeah right, I mean actually the guards in general just
drop like the raw count of guards just drops off
after Kyrie Irving and Max Christy Sasser. Klay Thompson even
defensively is more of a forward at this point. So
it's nemhard Dala ree. Yeah, it's the roster construction is interesting.
I found myself asking this is a question that I
have more. What do we see more minutes of Cooper
flag as the actual four or Santi al Dama at
the three.
Speaker 2: I don't like Sanci at the three.
Speaker 1: He shouldn't be there, but did they acquire him to
Maybe they're not confident in Derek Lively's health, which is fair.
Speaker 2: You're right and nobody. You're right because they acquired him.
P J is still there. You're you're gonna have to
play the She's there, Maurice Johnson, they drafted. Do you
think do you want to be an interesting trade?
Speaker 1: Not like at least a framework Naji Marshall for Sam Hauser.
Boston needs rim pressure and I think Dallas needs another
guy who could really sling it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you're not swing positional need out right,
But yes, I hear what you're saying. That could be interesting. Yeah,
I wouldn't hate that. You're still not the playmaking.
Speaker 1: No, but the question is is how one? Because you
don't control they do have first round equity, so let's
be clear, they do have picks to trade. But should
you be trading picks at this stage either like whether
it's your own which you don't control again in twenty
thirty one or other teams is probably not? And so
how do you go? I am with like messi U
Jerry said, and I think a lot of people. I
want to see Cooper Flag and Kyrie Irving together to
see what it looks like. But the variable there isn't
what we see it. It's just what does Kyrie Irving
look like at his age coming off an ACL injury?
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, exactly. So lots of questions about Dallas at
this point, just.
Speaker 1: Going through the comments really quick to see if I
missed anything that would be what is Jamal Murray for?
If not for ball handling on the Nuggets? I mean, yeah,
I get that, but did we look at how many
ball handlers the Spurs had to get to the finals.
Look how many ball handlers? Okay, see has even Nicks.
I'm just looking at the higher end teams from last season.
Just a ton of Josh Hart or mckail maybe not
the highest level passers, but mckel bridges Josh Hart, like
they just have the really good these three guys. Towns
Is as.
Speaker 2: A ball, I mean, for for a center, He's extremely
fluid with the ball, Like, let's.
Speaker 1: Yeah fair, So I you just you need more than
Jamal Murray and I think Nicole Yokichen, yes, Sage. Kyrie
isn't done. I mean, I'm open to that. I don't
know what it would take to get because people just
said they should trade Kyrie Irving because of the need.
He feels like we've just spent a ton of time
talking about and then I don't even know what his
value would be right now. You're probably not getting a
ton of You're probably not getting a ton of value
for him right now.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either.
Speaker 1: No correlation is not causation though, Okay, I don't. All right, awesome, Uh,
which teams we have left?
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see, see we.
Speaker 1: Have the Clippers. Let's go to the Clippers.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Go with a resolution to the aspiration and investigation, of course,
And then I think they need a center. If we're
like trying to isolate it down to the biggest need.
I don't know what this team's direction is really in
the short term or the long term because they don't
control their own picks and the new lottery rules, like
they they could be decent. You look at the talent.
Derek Jones Junior is still there, Chris Juhnn is still here.
But the center options Niederhauser is coming back from that
Liz Frank injury, so I'm assuming he won't be ready
to even start the season. You have Brook Lopez who's
just getting older, Isaiah Jackson that the big man rotation
here is just kind of uninspiring, right, And so I like,
I like brook Lopez in theory, but this isn't brook
Lopez from like two or three years ago, And so
they do have enough, I think, just guards. Even like
the shooting got better with the Ruy Hachimra addition, maybe
they're not going to be the best shooting team because
it's what it's Woggler Garland Hachi Mora, And that's like
kind of you. I mean, I guess brook Lopez still
provides you with stretch. So I'm pretty like glombed onto
the center position at this point. And I don't know,
I could say, Okay, I want someone who's going to
give them some size and like rebounding girth there on
the defensive glass. For sure. I don't know how you
go about acquiring that player, because I don't think this
team's on the timeline of let's give up assets to
go address this need, right.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree. Everything is kind of thrown
together a little bit at this point. By the way,
Keeton Wagler, I didn't love him at five, but he
needs to pop so severely right now because I just
I can't. I can't envision anyone else Like it's they're
trying to be younger, but like Gardland is like a
twenty two year old anymore, Like he's approaching his late twenties.
He has to be the guide to just kind of clippers.
Get Peyton Watson all right.
Speaker 1: Sam Passini fan Paige, I want to someone go make
a Hardwood Knox fan page or more YenS and OnlyFans
fan paign.
Speaker 2: Oh I heard, Look, I already got that booked. No,
it's that's actually a good one. That would be fun.
Like I don't think they can get there, right, but
like that'd be fun they could do.
Speaker 1: That wasn't their latest report was because they did by
going with Ruy, they confirmed their acting over the cap.
But they could do a sign and trade for him still.
Speaker 2: And there won't be poison pill status.
Speaker 1: Well they will, so the base year compensation would be
the issue. And so now you're roping in, they're probably
FLEXI it's not as big of an issue as you
know Sacramento trying to get Jayen Duran. That would just
be that that would be terrible, or that it'd be
like the logistics of that would be.
Speaker 2: It would also be terrible. It's okay to say, yes,
that would also be.
Speaker 1: So, so I think it'd be easier also because Peyton
was Peyton Watson yet between twenty seven and thirty. So
but yeah, well yeah, I mean, so you think he's
gonna get less than Christian Brown.
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna get like closer to Tari easton money.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean that's what I'm not I'm just saying,
if that's what that's man, that'll be. I hadn't. I
don't think I prepared myself and I probably should have
for this narra in which he got less than Christian
Brown got. I don't think, by the way, if that's
what he's getting. You could definitely figure out how to
make the base of conversation a sign and trade work,
but through the Clippers have like what do the Clippers have?
They have some spare parts, but in a Chris Dunn
and a Derrek Jones junior that Denver might have interest in.
But are you giving up a pick or picks to
get Peyton Watson? I'm sure that gets Denver's attention, But
as the Clippers, should you be doing that?
Speaker 2: It depends on how much you trust this last season
of Watson, right, I mean, because he was good. But
is it something you buy into being a regular thing.
Speaker 1: Well, even if you, let's say they do buy into that,
what are you giving like? What are what is dep like?
Are you giving first round picks to debt because you
need Denver to make this work? Now? Unless they're dumping
is there?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Well, okay, if the choir trade doesn't go through, it's
probably easier to shave a bunch of money and a
cool like the pistons are just sitting there right now,
that's ready? Or what happens if his contract gets avoided?
Does it stay as a dead cat pit at that point?
Or is it just off their books.
Speaker 2: We need to know these things.
Speaker 1: Why. I look, I thought I thought the trade. I
thought the trade was going to go through. So what
what do any of us know? Is the and they're
talking about it's not gonna be resolved for weeks. Conspiracy,
Say Denver's in the second apron though, Uh, they could
still trade. You can trade sign and trade someone in
the second apron or close to it. You can't acquire
someone in a sign and trade. That would hardcap you
with the first apron. So but yeah, Peyton Watson doesn't
fill the center need though, but he would be this
team gets more athletic, which I think you could argue
would also be a need that they could fill. I
like Peyton Watson here, that'd be a great flyer. If
you have him and Garland and Woggler, you just build
some really fun units with those.
Speaker 2: M H. I agree. Who do we have left? We have? Oh? God, Repelicans?
Is this the last one? I feel like we're missing someone? Blazers, Yeah,
they were. I was trying to make you pick the Pelicans.
I think I six you name them. You can't pivot? Sorry, God,
so twice in a row? All right? Um? Can can
the need be like in the front office. Oh man,
can we have a front office need? Just combats in
front office work? Is that?
Speaker 1: Could you first just list off all the transactions that
they've had this summer more? Oh god, there's been so many.
We'll be here for an hour, right, Uh now, I look,
has there even been a sign just there? I know
that they've been quiet, but like, haven't they resigned DeAndre Jordan?
Speaker 2: They did? Is that? Really? God?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: I have our So I'm building our document, I mean
the process of bringing our document for when uh we
do our report card grades, which we at least have
to wait for like the lebron and commit yeats and
stuff to say, here's a lot, but here are their transactions. Uh?
They picked up Karlo Makovic's two point three million dollar
team option, declined Kavan Looney's eight million dollar team option,
re signed DeAndre Jordan. End of this all right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, uh, I guess you trust your roster and.
Speaker 1: Glass Cow says, can everything be a need? Look? I
think not to hijacket from you, but the two I
have highlighted in theory, one of them shouldn't be a need.
But they need to figure out what they're doing at
the center position. Do you view Derek Queen as a
five or not? And if you don't, then I like,
I don't know how how the Zion Williamson tug of
war works because then neither of them are five. Eves
Mesie's probably not the five or DeAndre Jordan. If you
view Derek Queen as a glorified four, do you view
Derek Queen as someone who's just gonna continue to come
off the bench, So then you need to figure out
the center position that could maybe be done internally. I
still like me si and I thought the vision of
Derrek Queen was, yeah, the defense, he'll be cooked. But
he is a five. So if it's I if that's
how you view him long term, which.
Speaker 2: I I don't.
Speaker 1: Do you think he could be a four? Or playing
like what who's the big he's to play alongside like
Chet Holmgren basically or Chriss porzingis right, those types of things.
Speaker 2: He needs to play along someone alongside someone who sort
of like him, just better defensively, because well, I mean, look,
I do.
Speaker 1: You Andy Kruz said skip? I'm assuming he said skip.
Speaker 2: The He's not wrong, but these all around big men
like who struggled defensively though, but are so good at passing, rebounding, scoring, whatever.
Like they need someone who is almost equally as diverse,
but just in different areas. Like you can't have just
you know, a playmaker and necessarily a rim runner. I
firmly believe you need to have like some level of
identifiable factors there. So with with with Queen, I think
it's difficult because he's not a shooter yet we know
the defense is a problem, so like a no three,
no d center, just you have to work around that
to a perverse degree. And like I'm not even racking
on it because what he did this year was or
last year was really good for a rookie, especially like
this dude would just cobble together, you know, triple doubleish lines.
That's that's impressive. So so they need to figure out
how can we get bit up an all around big
men in here who's just better defensively. And you brought
up chet Honkgren, who I think is like the perfect
fit next to Queen, but he's just not realistic. So like,
who's the next next player who's in the homegrown rain?
Speaker 1: I think one of the questions first is do you
trust Derek Queen to develop more offensive range, not in
the sense of a more complete offensive player, but the
actual range to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I trust them. So if you trust
the arrival of the three more than the dyes so.
Speaker 1: And because what did he shoot like eighty percent of
the foul line or something, So I think it's reasonable
to say, Okay, he'll shoot better than even looking at
like from mid range, she was at thirty seven percent
last year. He was at twenty four percent on non
corner threes and then twenty eight percent from the corners.
I expect those to tick up. I think that he's
someone where the volume could tick up too. Then I
don't know if you need to go, well, it would
be preferable let me let me just be clear, it'd
be preferable to do the floor spacing, like just go
get Miles at this point or something. You figure it
all out later. But you could also like someone who's
a vertical space where I think could work if you
trust Derrek Queen to develop that additional offensive range. And
so if Jared Allen were available, I don't know what
the cost is to get him. If it's just Trey
Murphy straight up I probably don't like that as New Orleans.
Maybe there's other things if you can get a pick
and Jared Allen for Trey Murphy at this point, maybe
that's too rich for the Cavs as Blood, but I
think you could go a big man of that route
to where it's okay. He clearly does the vertical spacing
stuff in a way that you don't trust Eves mecI
to do so right now, in a way that Zion Williamson,
just like Jim Willison, isn't like a screen and roll
big and he can't be your defensive anchor at the
five either. And I think you could probably say the
same for Eves mec at this point, but it would
be preferable if you don't think Derek Queen is ever
gonna be a league average jump shooter. Let's say, then
you if you want to play him alongside another big
I think the I don't know if Jared Allen works
as well. You could go in Isaiah Hartenstein type. Someone
of theisa kind of has that flowing a range a
lot of like can do a lot of stuff in
the short role, but it makes it tough. Oh, by
the way, their actual other need though too. I think
it's just more shooting on the team. You could I
know they have Jordan Pool at a down year, but it's
Trey Murphy and it's like, what else is is bankable
on this roster?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a.
Speaker 1: Question for you als. So shooting the non Trey Murphy
players last year more catch and shoot efficiency second percent
tile non Tree.
Speaker 2: Second percentile.
Speaker 1: That's not good, just in case anyone was wondering whether
that's good. But to the center point, this was a
third or excuse me, the second consecutive year they were
bottom three in defensive rebounding. I would also like that
they were dead last in like and this is part
of like the big man thing or just the personnel,
Like their transition defense needs to be more disciplined. They
were dead last and transition frequency off of a misshot
like that they allowed. So there's I think I can't
remember who your glass going in the chats, like everything
be a need. They're probably not at that level because
I like Trey Murphy. They have they have a lot
of like Herb Jones, Trey Murphy is a deep but
actually have a lot of like nice wing types on
this team, and they even have some offensive engine types
when you're looking at Zion Williamson, Derrek Queen, maybe even
de Jon Dea Murray is still here. But the roster.
We went through this a little bit with the Kings,
and it's not as bad as Sacramento, right, but it
does lack a certain coherence to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I I agree we I think overall, if
I'm I'm trying to take this seriously because again I
actually agree with the commenter who said that everything. But
I understand your point that we have to be a
little bit matitious about this. It's not just the three
point shot, although agreed, it's not just the front off
of the stuff. It's also just a there's there's an
element of, or rather a lacking element of self sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I just don't think this is a group for one another,
Like I don't think this is a group that has
any interest in proceeding as they currently constructed. I think
the player so well aware that this project is uh
is failing. I think everyone around them is aware of it.
I just think there's a need drastic I think there's
a need for major roster construction changes. Is it Ziah
is it? Jordan Poole? Is it Deoncey Murray. Is it
all of them? Probably? I don't even know the hell
you're building around.
Speaker 1: I don't need is it you don't have, You don't
have the player to point to. You would the hope
probably should have been that it would be Queen or
Jeremiah Fears. You cannot and maybe you can't definitively say
that about most sophomores. They feel further away than they
should be for where the Pelicans would be add and
I don't view that as the fault of the players.
But if you're trying to if it's not Zion, there
is no and Zion probably isn't a realistic option unless
you're willing to go out. Because if Zion's the option,
do you know what the moves are? And I'm not
necessarily endorsing these, you start trading Fears in Queen and
picks to build adequately around Zion and Trey Murphy that's
the move, which is probably not the move. And what's
also you mentioned the nuclear thing. I think that's fair,
that would be and they're a team, they can do something.
This isn't the Kings where all of that, like Zion
I would assume, still has appeal the issue would be
how many of his potential trade suitors came off the
board this summer though, like Phoenix after the Miles Bridges
trade just gone, the heat Giannis just gone. You could
still get a haul for Trey Murphy. I don't know
what Herb Jones's value is, so they could do something nuclear.
I think it's gotten a little harder now, like put
like post some of these other trades where it's if
you didn't think Zion Williamson was gonna net you a
small ransom before, it's probably harder to find the team
that says I mean could if you want to take
on Paul George, is there like a Zion like for
Paul George structure that would make sense? You want rim
pressure in Boston?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you do you like that? Do you like
to fit in Joe Masula's offense? Well maybe he's the
guy who actually.
Speaker 1: Want to which is different players, but to be sure
and better.
Speaker 2: But Sion at least you know he can just kind
of spray the ball out to shooters. It's not it's
not like an idea that's the end of the world. There,
I get it. I think conceptually I like the fit
of Paul George and Boston more than Williamson, but at
the same time he's just so much older PG. So
just the age addition you can call it in getting
Sion in there, who's more along the timeline of Jason
Tatum and will be cheaper than Jaylen Brown. Perhaps there's
something there. I hadn't thought about that one, but it's
it's not a bad idea on its surface.
Speaker 1: It's just I don't know what the if it's a
pick and not one of the ones you just acquired.
I mean, but I'm assuming if if the cost was
that maybe Zion's already been moved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would assume so.
Speaker 1: Uh Andy cru says Zion has the shooting around him
in Boston, Yeah for sure. I mean maybe some of
the lineups with if you want to play him with
Mitch or Kada a little touch and go, but Boston
has plenty of uh the ability. They definitely have the
ability to space the floor like his drives would be
to be like I think the vision would be similar
to what it was supposed to be with the honest
it just let him rampage to the basket at will
Uh we are onto the Portland Trailblazers, who are our
final team. Yeah, they need a Ja Moran trade.
Speaker 2: I think, well, we definitely know they don't need a
point guard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think it's still I had
them as a sneaky what I thought would have been
like a great Trey Murphy dark horse trade destination, because
I think they need that type of player, and I
think they need that type of player more than ever.
Now is just the like the movement shooter preferably doesn't
summary in your defense, but you have look the ball
handling boxes checked. Damian Lillard, Denny Avdia, John Morant, Drewalidey,
Scoot Henderson, Shane Sharp can handle a little bit the
passings if he you've got between Robert Williams the third,
Donovan Klingen an excellent sophomore season. I even like the
Brandon Carlson pick up. I think was smart by them.
I haven't given up on Young Hansom yet. This roster
is still kind of deep. A lot of intriguing players.
But if you want, if the plan is to play
John Morant and Damian Lillard together, I like you better
hope the floors basing from Donovan Klingon is real just
because the John Morant element of it. But someone like
a Trey Murphy I think becomes would be integral to
this team. I don't know, like i've even them as
good enough to where they should be looking at that
type of a play. There's other names that we could
throw out there as well, but I have written in
my notes to think they need their Trey Murphy. And
I think that I would have said that had they
not made the John Morant trade. And I under I
understand that from a talent vacuum play, because you can
give up a ton to get him. But I hated
that trade for Portland. I just don't. I don't like it.
And it's I trust that like emotionally, this team, like culturally,
this team will be fine. Damian Lillard's in the building,
Drew Holliday, super high character guy. John Morant, this has
to be somewhat of a rude of like and know
it has to be an awakening for him. Maybe it's
not rude, but it's an awakening for him. I would
imagine change of scenery could do him good. But I
don't know, Like I don't even know what their like
favorite lineups are gonna look like at this point because
you start to run into who are you leaving out
if you think Denny needs to play and it feels
like they're obligated to play jaw Damian Lillard needs to play.
De Monty Kamara needs to play. Drew Holliday needs to play.
One of your bigs clinging as your bass big or
whether it's r W three needs to play. They are
a team that could play without a center before. I'm
less intrigued by those lineups now because you don't have
Jeremy Grant, who didn't help you enough with the rebounding.
But are you getting away playing small with John Moran
and or Damian Lillard on the court. I don't know
what any of the John Morant stuff augurs for Scoot
Henderson Slash Shade and Sharp's future. I think, like Shade
and Sharp and stuff for Trey Murphy, is there something
you could build around there would do wonders for this team.
I still wouldn't love the John Morant fit, but I
think I think that's what they need, and look, there's
the data just to back it up, like they were
just not a strong shooting team last year, Like Damian
Lillard helps a ton beyond and off ball gravity is
just an element. They didn't have a singular player last year,
but they need they need more now for sure.
Speaker 2: I agree. I don't have anything to add. You just
took everything.
Speaker 1: Well, it was one need. I was just unpacking it.
So I appreciate if you. I don't know if you
feel a job. That's what I'm here for is a
steel people's I'm aim. Really, I'm not an actually human.
I'm a y I feel. There's when I hate. I
don't want people to think, probably that I'm being lazy
when I say this. The just need shooting, So I
probably whenever I go to shooting or wings, I probably
feel the need to over explain. Whereas no, I promise
you I've thought about this.
Speaker 2: No you have. I saw and I know you have,
and you're you're right on the money. It's because, look,
let's just be real about one thing here as well.
Shade and Sharp has not proved that he's a great
long range shooter. So it's not just the John Morant
on him and Kling and pairing, it's Shade and Sharp too,
Like you just don't know what that's going to entail.
So if you have three potential players in the lineup,
who are you know, potentially weak shooters. That's a problem.
And then you just re signed Propert Williams the third
also not a floor stretching pig man. That's a problem.
Like you're not really sure what kind of spacing you're
going to get out of Young Hansen. You just don't know.
And Scoot, Hey, Scoot as well. He's hat shooting concerns
over the course of his career too, Like these are
it's a fair question, Like this is on a balance.
If they all have a good year, god, they could
make a playoff run like or a run within the playoffs.
But if you have so many h let's see what
is what is the comment the needed shooting and maybe
a real power for it, and they went an acquired job.
Oh that's a good comment. I like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're there. You're right about the because so and
I assume he's just not going to play a bunch
and if he is, I don't know what that says
about their plans for Young Hansen. But Brandon Carlson might
give you the stretch because a stretch element at the five.
If Donovan clingon shot is for real and he's just
a thirty five percent shooter on arc threes that gets
I think it opens up the like John Moran needs
that openness, I think, especially when some of their most
important players when you look at the percentages. Yes, Tomaniy
Kamara fine shooter. Denny Avda is someone who can shoot
like you don't want to take him off the dribble
jumpers necessarily, but it's a set shooter. Okay. But Damian
Lillard's the only guy on this roster who like comes
close to being a five alarm fire relative to his position,
and that's they need that at another spot, and it
doesn't Trey Murphy's the name I gravitate towards. If they
could get a Max Struce, a Sam Merrill even you
just you can't fit him into the structure. Though I
was gonna say, there might be like a shade and
sharp for Miles Turner swap here, but I just don't
know how many minutes Miles Turner's playing when you have
Donovan Klington and RW three on top of young handsome
there and Brandon Carlson. But that that's what they need
to go out and get and they have. Look, they
have the I would say, if you're willing to trade
Shaden Sharp and Scoot Is. I'm assuming they're not married
to Scoot. Now, if you have John Morant and Damian
Lillard and Drew Holiday there, they have the ability to
make that type of move, and I guess it seems
like they're willing to make swing. I would be like,
do we expect them to make another significant transaction before
the other because we're kind of in the off season
dog days at this point we are, Yeah, if we
will still be looking to cut money at some point,
so there is that to consider. But maybe Trey Murphy
becomes actually available. If the Pelicans ever pick up their phone,
I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, we'll see, but it does feel like they've kind
of said, all right, this is our team moving forward.
Speaker 1: And do you do you think though that it's that
there is a there's like a layer of intelligibility to
that because you don't know what you look like with
John Moran, So why would you now go make another
move where your team has to be more reflective of
the image of having rant.
Speaker 2: I guess, but we know what who John Morand is
and we know his weaknesses, we know his strength, So yeah,
I mean, if you want to go into that approach,
and say we I want to see it first. Cool.
I personally, I don't think there's a need for it.
I think it's pretty obvious what's gonna happen. But like I, well,
we could be wrong, I guess I on this one,
I just don't think we are.
Speaker 1: But well, because peak, even if you got peak, Ja Morant,
I don't think our biggest need change. Like if we
just said you're getting twenty twenty two, John Morant, that
was all NBA season, right, Yeah, it's great, Yeah, you're
getting peak, John Morant. I think you still need well, hope,
we just spent like the last.
Speaker 2: Eight minutes or so, absolutely absolutely both.
Speaker 1: Apparently overtired and forgot the Warriors.
Speaker 2: You take it. What is their biggest need, sir?
Speaker 1: They need Jonathan Kamingo back, So I have youth and athleticism.
Which is kind of funny because the like the two
free agents they're linked to the most is one Draymond Green,
who we just expect to come back obviously, but then too,
they're also linked to Lebron James, who would be one
of their more athletic players. Anyway, this is just a
team though. Twenty third and transition frequency or worse for
the past three years. I think you're also looking at
the perimeter defense. Right now, both Moses Moody and Jimmy
Butler are going to begin the season on the shelf.
We don't know if Moody's gonna play next year. I
don't know if Jimmy Butler's gonna return before the calendar
flips to twenty twenty seven, just at his age and
the injury that he's coming back from. So you're putting
like there's a lot right now on the shoulders of defensively,
Danthony Melton, and then is Jaxel Lindenberg playing a bunch
of minutes here and Draymond Green of course defensively, And
so you just look at this team and they have
and they still do, had a whole bunch of I
think you different needs heading into the offseason they haven't
addressed aside from talent retention for them, they haven't addressed
any of them. And so it's not just youth athleticism.
It's all right, well, Jimmy Butler's injured, Do you need
another creator, do you need more I mean you can
say do they need more durability at the five spot?
Just now you have al Horford, christophs porzingis there's Draymond
at the five lineups. Of course you lost Quinton Post.
They did sign Charles Bassi. They just need wings again,
Moses Moody, Jimmy Butler being injured. How much do you
trust Jack so Wendenberg off Rip or Gie Santos and
Will Richard to play bigger roles. But youth and athleticism
over Maybe it doesn't need to be young, but it
needs to be athleticism on this team, Like they need
to have that button to push, and they do not.
Speaker 2: Right now, they don't. You're absolutely right, And that's been
a concern for a while now, right like they try
to do the whole like let's be competitive, let's try
to develop young guys. They couldn't develop the young guys.
They also chose poorly in the draft for quite a
few years there. It's it's it's a problem. They don't
really have a backup plan in this in this manner,
like if the plan is Lebron great, Seemingly you want
Anthony Davison there because that's what he's requiring. So how
do you sell that idea to Washington? Like using Jimmy
as a trade ship I don't think that's gonna go
over particularly well. Yeah, I think that's a I think
it's it's a complete fair observation that they're in need
of athleticism and durability and just someone who can do
something else. Then I run around the floor and just
be an observer because I think that has been a
problem for them for a long time. Just everyone looking
at Steph, looking at Draymond, looking at these guys like
you need someone who comes in and just does stuff.
And maybe that's Lindeborg. Honestly, maybe it's it's pajem Ski
in year four, but they need something. Maybe it's Gui Santos.
Like I, frankly, I'm just open for everything at this
stage because they are in need of having someone other
than the old crew delivered it at a much higher rate.
Speaker 1: And it's I mean, they were twenty seventh in rim
pressure last year, they're not when you're looking at like
the way that roster's set up now without Jimmy. For
let's assume at least half of the year, you're not
gonna draw a ton of fouls, right like until that
bar has even been low. And so I look to
even with the idea that Jimmy Butler will come back.
I think you look at his roster and say they're
kind of married. Just their their centers of christophs Perzenkis
and Al Horford. You're not going to upgrade there, And
I mean maybe someone becomes available that we're not discussing.
Steph is Steph. You're not going to upgrade at that
spot if you're bringing Draymond back, or you have Lebron James,
like your four is kind of set, and so I
look at the two three spot like it's the wing spot.
It's like, I feel as if what all the stuff
we're talking about, ideally it would come in the form
of a bigger wing or just a wing type player agree,
And I don't know who that is. I mean, Trey
Murphy's been one that's been mentioned for them. He's been
mentioned for every team that doesn't check all of about like,
he's not gonna give you a ton of rim pressure,
he's not the best defender, and he's gonna cost you
a ton of assets. I think you still make that
move and figure it out later. But the bigger question
here is if it's not Lebron James, who again does
not answer, he'll give you some rim pressure. For sure,
if you're worried about creation, especially with Jimmy Butler injured,
he's going to give you that. But if it's not
Lebron James, do you view this as a team that's
gonna look to make I've asked Grant this question a
but like, are they actually gonna try and make significant
upgrades or do they come out of this offseason and say,
you know, we were linked to Lebron and like we
were kinda it seems like they maybe might have checked
in on you. Honest, they weren't on his final list though,
and we were linked to Anthony Davis for a hot minute,
and that's just gonna be that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what ultimately happens,
because they can only put their best foot forward, and
they are an organization that would probably want that to
be publicized a lot that they did, because I think
we've seen that every single year with them, like, oh,
we tried to be in the running for blah blah
blah blah. That's and that's fine, Like sometimes you just
don't get shit done, and I don't think that's necessarily
something to look down upon. But I think they realize
the situation as well, like this is the sunset years
of Stephen Draymond, and while they want to give them
something cohesive to allow them to have a good final run,
it just comes down to do other players look at
this situation as being attractive? And most, I would guess, don't.
Speaker 1: I think when the bar is so high in the
West with San Antonio and Okac being there, and then
even you either believe Dever is going to be right
back there, or perhaps you think that Minnesota's better. I
know you don't, but perhaps you think Minnesota is better
after the La Melo ball trade. Cald Houston just get
better by virtue of being healthier having cred Van fleetback
they could get. I mean a lot of their key
players on my Thompson, Alprin, Shangoun Reed Shepherd aren't off
the growth trajectory. It's tough because with Golden State too,
they need so many things that to identify a singular
target like a Giannis came closest just because he didn't
check all the boxes, but it was well, this is
just a clear top ten talent, and so you do it,
and that's going to move the needle enough. Otherwise you're
probably talking about multiple moves. But it would just be
nice on balance to see them get more athletic overall.
And I don't I like when you're try and suss
out names. That gets a little difficult. And I think
part of the reason for that with me is even
if Boston made a Derek White available, now, now you're
getting older and like, how much have you improved your athleticism?
Maybe not enough? But has this team then, like they've
not shown a willingness It feels like to part with
right the draft compensation or just the assets overall that
it would take to even pull off a move like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, they haven't, and that's why I don't
think we can anticipate anything of substantial nature because of it.
I think that would be presumptuous.
Speaker 1: So maybe they get like they do have. I will
say one thing. I will say, they do have lightning
in a bottle potential to where if you say, well,
if Christops is healthy, Jimmy Butler gets right and Steph
is healthy in the playoffs, this isn't a team that
I would want to face if they have there, the
top of their roster has still a very high end outcome.
But it's just the odds of everybody at the top
of their roster being available or operating at the peak
of their powers when it matters most. It just year
over year, it feels as if it gets lower and lower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And I think that's partly why what
I said earlier, that most players are looking at that
situation and not saying, oh, yeah, I want to sign
up to this. I think a lot are basically avoiding
that because they could be looking at a situation where
they are trying to rebuild and then they're forced to
being traded and then they don't decide their next destination. So, yeah, do.
Speaker 1: You have anything else on any trade targets you think
they should go after? Should they be a Zion team?
Speaker 2: Like is that wouldn't hurt rim pressure youth? I mean,
those are the two things that you're outlined that I
think is like a fair game athleticism as well. If
there's an organization that might be able to absorb him,
it's them, So I wouldn't hate it. But the question is,
what's what's the deal is it? Jimmy?
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I mean financially it has to be
I think this point because you resigned Porzingis Draymond opted out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they would be.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what's there's the report that they don't
want to trade Jimmy. He's just this. I don't think
he's immovable because he's an expiring contract, but the contract
is so massive that it's that it's inherently tough to move,
and are you you have to find a team that's
willing to break it. One, get a player who they're
either rerouting or maybe they're negotiating a buy out with,
or they're just not getting back until twenty twenty seven,
and then they're also willing to send out what like
two or three rotation players. Yeah your way? I mean,
maybe is this the Memphis consolidation trade? They get the
Jimmy Butler contract, but you send the Warriors who you're
probably getting off KCP in that deal, or or Jeremy Grant,
take your pick. But then it's well, what do the
Warriors want off that roster? It's they have they have
players that I think would be appealing, But do the
Warriors want Jallen Wells? Do they want Cam Spencer? And
it's you know, like, what are you willing to give
up to get the like, none of those players are
even close to even in the aggregate or close to
enough for us to feel much better about this team,
or even the players I just name them, they're not
checking the athleticism box.
Speaker 2: Either, No, exactly, So like, I don't feel as though
the Memphis deal, even though it was to materialize, would
make them significantly better, although it would improve their debt,
But overall, I think this team just it needs something
major for the narratives to shift, and I'm just not
gonna guess that that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Do you have did we do it? Did we skip anybody?
We should?
Speaker 2: We should?
Speaker 1: I should have counted those while you're talking at one point,
But I think we got everyone. I'm looking out here.
Speaker 2: We think we did too.
Speaker 1: Go look at that all thirty teams. Go check out
the East if you haven't done so. But morey, you're
able just to tell everyone where they can find you
and all the work that you do.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can find my work over at Yahoo Sports
and on the NBA podcast, and if you understand Danish,
you can find me over at Busser Beater or catch
from calling games at Hbomex.
Speaker 1: As always, please If you'd like to support the show
Patreon dot com, slash Hardareknox NBA get every episode ad free,
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Maya though, so until next time, and as always, wet
the shout out to the one, the only, the player
who could solve the problems biggest needs of at least
what thirteen of the fifteen teams we just talked at
fourteen fourteen and fifteen teams you just talk about mister Frank,
the one and only mister Frank Heldina, this small k