Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to a very special edition of Full
Speaker 1: Circle the podcast.
Speaker 2: I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr.
Speaker 1: And I'm your host Martha Madrigal. Today we're talking about
Speaker 1: the film regarding us. We had the absolute pleasure of
Speaker 1: watching the film last night, and I had to watch
Speaker 1: it again this morning because I knew there were pieces
Speaker 1: I missed, so I put it on my phone so
Speaker 1: I couldn't play with my phone, and I got so
Speaker 1: much more. So I have a ton of notes we
Speaker 1: have with us. One of the writers who is also
Speaker 1: the director of this film, David Beck, Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Full Circle Table.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you were several hats in this film. First of all,
Speaker 1: you start in it. You're one of the prime characters
Speaker 1: in this film. Directed and wrote it, wrote it with
Speaker 1: Jennifer Bobby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with the great Jennifer Bobby, and I also produced
Speaker 3: it as one of the film Yeah. It's based on
Speaker 3: what's inspired by I suppose a short film called Backup
Speaker 3: Plan that played in film festivals around the world in
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, and Jennifer Bobby actually played Veronica, the lead
Speaker 3: role in the short film, and then we decided to
Speaker 3: you know, we always had a plan to make it bigger,
Speaker 3: We had bigger ideas for it. First it was a
Speaker 3: TV series that we wrote, but then I sort of
Speaker 3: I could see how to get a feature film produced,
Speaker 3: and for a TV series it's very difficult, so I thought, well,
Speaker 3: what we go that route instead? But I think it
Speaker 3: works pretty well as a feature film.
Speaker 1: I think ultimately beautifully as the feature film. I really do,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: Jennifer's character was a who so, yes, yeah, she's She's
Speaker 3: quite funny. She's most famous for her character Aunt Barbara.
Speaker 3: She was the top selling Tupperware snails person in all
Speaker 3: of North America. I think like five years in a
Speaker 3: row or something, Okay, And yeah, she ABC did a
Speaker 3: short documentary on her life and transition, and she was
Speaker 3: on all the you know shows selling tupperware, Good Morning America,
Speaker 3: the Today Show, all of the morning shows selling Tupperware
Speaker 3: as Aunt Barbara. So just google Aunt Barbara and you'll
Speaker 3: you'll have many laughs.
Speaker 1: I will do that. I will do that. So who
Speaker 1: wrote the short, Jennifer or you?
Speaker 3: I wrote the short, but we, I mean, we collaborated
Speaker 3: very closely, just to get like the the sense right,
Speaker 3: you know, and as the lead actress, she had a
Speaker 3: lot of ideas that she brought to the table. Yeah, okay, can.
Speaker 1: We talk about what the backup plan is? What that red?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so backup plan basically, backup Plan took place in
Speaker 3: real time. It was a fifteen minute short film and
Speaker 3: it was the events I guess that were like the
Speaker 3: end of the first act of the film where my
Speaker 3: character Denny goes as the Shakespeare telegram and delivers the form.
Speaker 3: But Jennifer always says, well, you know, once you get
Speaker 3: suicidal ideation in your mind, it's always sort of in
Speaker 3: the back of your mind, like it's always sort of
Speaker 3: an option.
Speaker 1: So that's right, it's always on the table.
Speaker 3: It's always on the table exactly. So that was, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a backup plan so in case, you know, something
Speaker 3: goes awry that you don't feel like there are any
Speaker 3: options that you know it. I mean, it's sad to say,
Speaker 3: but that's sort of always on the table, you know.
Speaker 3: So that that's the back a plan, you know. And
Speaker 3: the film The Little Girl Isabelle played by Andrea Rosa Guzman.
Speaker 3: She asks Veronica played by Alexander Gray in the feature uh,
Speaker 3: you know, because she reads her suicide letter. She says,
Speaker 3: she asks her what's her what's your backup plan? You know,
Speaker 3: I want to know what your backup plan is, which
Speaker 3: I think is kind of a poignant moment, you know,
Speaker 3: for a little kid to ask that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of many, Yeah, yeah. And you know that's
Speaker 1: so much throughout this film rings true, you know, And
Speaker 1: I don't particularly care if it's a good film or
Speaker 1: a bad film. I love this movie, by the way,
Speaker 1: But my point being, you can tell you can see
Speaker 1: our fingerprints all over everything truth. When there are trans
Speaker 1: people involved in telling trans stories and queer people involved
Speaker 1: in telling queer stories, it's obvious it you feel it.
Speaker 1: You know, I know that person exactly. I had to
Speaker 1: mothers I had, you know, I had two of them,
Speaker 1: still have one who so influenced my life, and who
Speaker 1: is the person I know I can run and cry
Speaker 1: to or whatever I need. She's there.
Speaker 3: Oh well, thank you for saying that. I mean, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: I mean that's why we really wanted to tell an
Speaker 3: authentic story. And you know, I'm proud that we had
Speaker 3: trans representation basically on every level, from our executive producer
Speaker 3: Martine Rothblatt, our associate producer, Marcy Bauers, doctor Marcy Bauers
Speaker 3: that we're talking about. And then obviously Jennifer Bobby Are
Speaker 3: writer director all the way down to our production assistant,
Speaker 3: our art production assistant, you know. So I just, you know,
Speaker 3: we wanted to tell a true story and it was inspired. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it's all about the Catholic Church, and Jennifer and I
Speaker 3: both went to Catholic school for you know, all through
Speaker 3: grade school and high school, so we you know, we
Speaker 3: could draw on those experiences.
Speaker 1: So we just I knew some but he did. I
Speaker 1: knew somebody did.
Speaker 3: This of our childhood and kind of combined them. You know.
Speaker 2: I spent thirteen years in that bad boy, so I understand.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of lessons there to
Speaker 3: learn and unlearned.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you know, and I think I think they've
Speaker 1: pushed most of us out, you know, or kept us
Speaker 1: in the closet. In terms of teachers in Catholic school.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a good friend who also taught
Speaker 1: my son, who got fired because he had a civil
Speaker 1: union in New Jersey. He lived in New Jersey and
Speaker 1: worked in Philadelphia at a private Catholic school. And when
Speaker 1: marriage equality passed and he could have a marriage, he
Speaker 1: just kind of went to the principal and said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be late for that in service day
Speaker 1: we're picking up our marriage license. And he was summarily fired.
Speaker 1: You know. It was almost like don't do this or
Speaker 1: And you know the thing was all of the priests
Speaker 1: and folk around that school were at the you know,
Speaker 1: they had a reception when they civil union because no
Speaker 1: one knew that there would ever be anything more. And
Speaker 1: everybody was cool with that, right, I mean because through
Speaker 1: the queers and Catholic school, you don't have to throw
Speaker 1: a rock far and look at the theology department, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm serious, and the clergy and the h and you know,
Speaker 1: it was like don't if you're going to do this,
Speaker 1: you can't work here anymore. And this is this is
Speaker 1: a man who loved that school so much. You know,
Speaker 1: he went away to college and came back to teach there,
Speaker 1: passionate teacher everyone adored. And that was the bottom, like
Speaker 1: this is still a Catholic school, you know, so you
Speaker 1: you hit on.
Speaker 3: That, you know what, Martha, I just have to rejects
Speaker 3: because it was so ironic that after we wrote the
Speaker 3: first draft of the feature in twenty twenty, at the
Speaker 3: height of the pandemic, that happened to an English teacher
Speaker 3: of mine that I had, and he also went to
Speaker 3: high school there. I'm from Kettering, Ohio Archbischophalter High School.
Speaker 3: He'd been teaching there for twenty years. You know, he
Speaker 3: was with got married, you know, when it was legalized,
Speaker 3: and just was fired just in twenty twenty, after he'd
Speaker 3: been teaching there for years. Everybody knew he was gay.
Speaker 3: Nobody cared. I mean even you know in two thousand
Speaker 3: and one and nobody cared. And now all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: people care. It seems like people so certain areas of
Speaker 3: the country are getting you know, pretty conservative. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know, they're cracking down on teaching and you have
Speaker 3: to sign an agreement about you won't you know, about abortion,
Speaker 3: and you won't encourage abortions, and they have to sign
Speaker 3: their life away. It's yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 2: The list of the things you can't teach is way
Speaker 2: longer than the things you can.
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, what's going to be left? And
Speaker 1: you know, I'm willing to stay out of the decisions
Speaker 1: of religious schools if they you know, if the religious
Speaker 1: will stay out of the decisions of public schools, that's
Speaker 1: that would be my preference. You know. I guess if
Speaker 1: you want to discriminate and this is the way you
Speaker 1: want to do it, and you know this is your
Speaker 1: bottom line, you know that's been the argument, and I
Speaker 1: guess fine. You know, we were talking before we started
Speaker 1: to record. We just had Nico Lang here for a
Speaker 1: week and the first event that we did was a
Speaker 1: Tuesday evening and I did it very intentionally in a
Speaker 1: u U church that is local to hear because it
Speaker 1: doesn't get much more liberal, I think, or more open,
Speaker 1: because you're going to be an atheist and go to
Speaker 1: a Unitarian Universalist church, right. And I called several of
Speaker 1: the churches that I know are affirming all year long,
Speaker 1: because regardless of my personal beliefs or where I stand,
Speaker 1: I know how important that is for a lot of us,
Speaker 1: and a lot of us are just trying to heal
Speaker 1: and trying to find that relationship and that connection again.
Speaker 1: And the evening was supposed to be about community, right,
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm a counselor whatever works for you,
Speaker 1: We're gonna that's where we're going to go. I liked
Speaker 1: the way it was handled, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: Alexandra did an amazing job portraying the conflict, right, the
Speaker 1: betrayal and sort of the ultimate really with reunification with
Speaker 1: her faith but not that church.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we thank you for saying that. I I
Speaker 3: think it was a fascinating character because it's someone who
Speaker 3: sort of hold holds on to her faith, you know,
Speaker 3: despite the persecution and the discrimination, and it's like, well,
Speaker 3: I know the difference between faith and spirituality and religion,
Speaker 3: you know, and and faith is personal. It's you know,
Speaker 3: something that man cannot touch, you know, it's it's something
Speaker 3: sacred that's just between me and my higher power. And
Speaker 3: I love that that. I mean, she's sort of, in
Speaker 3: a way was the wisest in the movie and the
Speaker 3: sanest person in the movie. You know, we all were
Speaker 3: kind of quirky, crazy characters, kooky characters, you know, including
Speaker 3: the kids, and she was just this this core, you know,
Speaker 3: stable force, the sense of calm in this world. And uh,
Speaker 3: that's what I that's what really drew me to the
Speaker 3: the story, into the projects, you know, that's what a
Speaker 3: story we wanted to tell. So yeah, because a lot
Speaker 3: of times as LGBTQ people were kind of once we
Speaker 3: come out as whatever we are, we're almost obligated to, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, throw that away, you know, not just the religion,
Speaker 3: but like everything and and I think, you know, it's
Speaker 3: a it's a delicate conversation, but you know, there is
Speaker 3: a huge difference between spirituality and religion, and a lot
Speaker 3: of people enjoy the ritual of Catholicism or religion, you know,
Speaker 3: the sacraments, the you know, the choir. You know that
Speaker 3: that was a big thing in the movie, like singing
Speaker 3: in the church choir and participate in you know, in
Speaker 3: the community, and it's like, what are we going to do?
Speaker 3: We're not welcome, you know.
Speaker 1: It's the cadence of it all, Like you know that,
Speaker 1: That's one of the things I always loved about Mass
Speaker 1: was the cadence. You know, I knew what was coming next.
Speaker 1: It was almost meditative for me to be there. That's
Speaker 1: why a lot of folks I know are episcopal now
Speaker 1: because they're actually welcomed there, they're actually invited in as
Speaker 1: opposed to we just don't talk about you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I played the piano and I've I've
Speaker 3: played the piano all through grade school and high school
Speaker 3: and Catholic Mass. And I enjoyed it because I got
Speaker 3: out of school a little early so I could rehearse,
Speaker 3: you know, and I loved it. I love doing it.
Speaker 3: But then now now I play for, yeah, an Episcopal
Speaker 3: church that's you know, all affirming and welcoming and it's
Speaker 3: great and they've never said anything that I've you know,
Speaker 3: really have been horrified by. You know, sometimes they have
Speaker 3: pastors who I don't agree with everything, but like, you know,
Speaker 3: they're they're welcoming and that's a beautiful thing, it really is. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say about the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3: They need to get with the times. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: they need to let priests to marry at least for
Speaker 3: on and so many.
Speaker 1: Here's part of the one layer of the hypocrisy. By
Speaker 1: the way, because my kids went to a Ukrainian Catholic school,
Speaker 1: right and they're priests that they're kind of Eastern Orthodox,
Speaker 1: I guess in the way that they practice Catholicism recognized
Speaker 1: by the Roman Catholic Church. Their priests marry, their priests
Speaker 1: are allowed to marry, and they still you know, participate
Speaker 1: in the sacraments, and those sacraments are honored. So it's
Speaker 1: like you've got these offshoots that are not really and
Speaker 1: it's perfectly fine, But the Roman Catholic Church still says, no,
Speaker 1: we need women in leadership.
Speaker 3: Roles too, but we definitely do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean that's the Episcopal Church seems to be,
Speaker 1: what is it, all of the pageantry and none of
Speaker 1: the guilt.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I mean, which which makes sense why so many queer
Speaker 2: folks would gravitate that way, right.
Speaker 1: The priest still wears a dress. It's just you know,
Speaker 1: not not the same. And they're allowed to be married,
Speaker 1: and they're allowed to have lives and so well.
Speaker 3: Like you know, they're they're human beings, right, they have desires,
Speaker 3: they have needs, They you know, maybe want a family,
Speaker 3: and it's like we put them on a pedestal in
Speaker 3: the way that they're untouchable, that they're more godly than
Speaker 3: another person. And I think we're realizing as a you know,
Speaker 3: as a community, as a global community, that we're all
Speaker 3: the same, we're all equal, you know, we have to
Speaker 3: stop idolizing these people who are somehow untouchable, and we're
Speaker 3: finding that out everywhere I mean not just with our
Speaker 3: spiritual leaders, but you know, celebrities, with with you know,
Speaker 3: obviously our politicians, with everyone. I mean, we're all human beings.
Speaker 3: And I think that there's there's no secrets anymore in
Speaker 3: our world because we know everything now. We have all
Speaker 3: this information that everything's coming out, So whatever you do,
Speaker 3: it's going to come out somehow, just because of the
Speaker 3: global society we live in now. And it's like we
Speaker 3: all just have to be more forgiving and loving and
Speaker 3: more compassionate to each other.
Speaker 2: And how many more examples do we need of the
Speaker 2: fact that repression breeds harmful behavior, you know, like A
Speaker 2: equals b. It's a direct correlation.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that really struck me
Speaker 1: is this felt very much like a collaboration. I felt
Speaker 1: the village involved in this film just watching it right
Speaker 1: and of course reading the credits, I'm like, okay, there's
Speaker 1: mals Marsy Bowers, you know, and the acting was brilliant
Speaker 1: and all that, But talk to me about bringing this together.
Speaker 1: How did you take it from the short to this?
Speaker 1: That's a brilliant Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I Mean, my belief for filmmaking and directing is that
Speaker 3: it is a collaboration and that it doesn't matter who
Speaker 3: has the idea. If it's a good idea, let's do it.
Speaker 3: And we wanted Alexander to feel like she had a voice,
Speaker 3: you know, we you know, she was a producer on
Speaker 3: the film, and I thought that was very important because
Speaker 3: she's you know, carrying this film, and I really, I
Speaker 3: just I knew we had a bigger story to tell
Speaker 3: than the short.
Speaker 1: I'm going to check it out on Amazon Prime because
Speaker 1: i want to see the genesis. You know, that led
Speaker 1: to the full film, and.
Speaker 2: I'm a completionist, so now it's like, oh, there's something
Speaker 2: else that's involved.
Speaker 1: I got to watch that too, now I have to.
Speaker 3: Yes, and the little girl in it, Valeria also, she
Speaker 3: was actually one of the little girls in the Florida
Speaker 3: Project that film, the Ryan Baker film, which is wow,
Speaker 3: brilliant film. Okay, yeah, William Dafoe, I believe he was
Speaker 3: not made for an oscar for that warmans, but it's
Speaker 3: about the homeless camps outside Disney World in Florida. And
Speaker 3: she was the little girl. She played Isabelle. But now
Speaker 3: she's like a teenager, you know, she's at sixteen, so
Speaker 3: she was too old Okay, we were very excited about
Speaker 3: the kids week ast.
Speaker 1: Actually they were brilliant, Yeah, absolutely brilliant. Who played Isabelle Andrea.
Speaker 3: Her name is Andrea Rosa Guzman. It's her very first
Speaker 3: screen project film. She's never done film or television before.
Speaker 3: She's a natural. She had a voiceover job at a
Speaker 3: Disney cartoon for Disney Plus about kindergart I think it's
Speaker 3: called Kindergarten. But she sings and you know, does crazy
Speaker 3: voices on that show, and such a talent.
Speaker 1: She's got a beautiful voice. You know, she sang you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she did you.
Speaker 1: Know one part in the film and we get to
Speaker 1: hear her voice.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She actually performing in the Nutcracker right now.
Speaker 1: I love she dances too, so of course she does
Speaker 1: triple threat.
Speaker 3: Yes, but we got delayed filming so many times, and
Speaker 3: we were fifteen days out. We were supposed to film
Speaker 3: of the Summer twenty twenty two. We we couldn't. We
Speaker 3: lost funding. We were not able to secure like the
Speaker 3: funding we needed, which we thought was a guarantee, and
Speaker 3: we had to postpone filming by a year basically, and
Speaker 3: I said, you know what, let's just keep the kids
Speaker 3: we have because they're so great, and let's just pray
Speaker 3: that they don't, you know, have a growth spurt, right,
Speaker 3: and let's just make them a year older. So they
Speaker 3: were originally in the third grade now and during the
Speaker 3: fourth grade. But it worked out because I had time
Speaker 3: to work with Andrea, just one on one, and just
Speaker 3: she and her mom and I would meet several times
Speaker 3: throughout the year and just we would just work on
Speaker 3: you know, just relaxing on camera and just you know,
Speaker 3: getting comfortable and building a relationship. And so that was
Speaker 3: just really really helpful for the film. I don't know
Speaker 3: if we would have gotten the performances we were able
Speaker 3: to capture if we had filmed in twenty twenty two. So,
Speaker 3: you know, everything works out for a.
Speaker 1: Reason, exactly. I believe it does. And you know, for me,
Speaker 1: fourth grade rang true, you know, because ugly bullied, I
Speaker 1: was really bullied in school didn't start until kind of
Speaker 1: the end of third grade, much more so in fourth grade.
Speaker 1: That's where actually kids get mean, I mean that's just
Speaker 1: where it starts.
Speaker 3: I mean, it just makes a lot more sense, you know,
Speaker 3: fro fourth grade, because you're about to hit puberty. A
Speaker 3: lot of kids and a lot of kids are still
Speaker 3: like very kid. So it's like that, you know happens. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it all works.
Speaker 1: Out, it does, it does.
Speaker 2: Going back to what you said, Martha about the authenticity
Speaker 2: of the film, that's something that I was thinking about
Speaker 2: for sure, and that comes from you know, us telling
Speaker 2: our own stories, because each of these characters, in different
Speaker 2: hands could easily be tropes.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like starting with our main character. You know, if this
Speaker 2: were any other Hollywood film, Veronica would have been like,
Speaker 2: you know, the magical Negro, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like comes in to solve everyone's problems and show them
Speaker 2: the air of their ways and then disappears, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. But it she was a flawed character
Speaker 2: as well, and no one felt like everyone felt real,
Speaker 2: everyone felt like someone that I would have met, like
Speaker 2: your Your character reminded me of me when I was
Speaker 2: hustling as a as an artist, as a professional artist.
Speaker 2: You know, it's I'm going to do everything I can
Speaker 2: in front of everyone that I can until someone says, oh, here,
Speaker 2: let me give you a bag full of money for
Speaker 2: this thing that you're doing on the corner. Like I
Speaker 2: knew these people.
Speaker 1: You did a great job presenting both a human and
Speaker 1: a marginally bad actor.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I I kind of kicked myself in the
Speaker 3: foot sometimes seeing those clips, I'm like, oh god, there's
Speaker 3: so bad, Like what was I doing casting myself as
Speaker 3: a bad actor.
Speaker 1: But I loved it. You did it well, You did
Speaker 1: it well. It was the character was lovable and approachable
Speaker 1: and real, and.
Speaker 2: You got to be a good actor to be a
Speaker 2: bad actor on purpose.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing I'm going to say is that
Speaker 1: the storylines are queer stories. They just are. You know,
Speaker 1: there are not that many sis people that can identify
Speaker 1: sis het people who can identify with you know, losing
Speaker 1: their job, losing their home because of who they are.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen. It's not a Saisset story the way
Speaker 1: you know, the inter play between the man that played
Speaker 1: your husband and you felt real, did feel real, and you,
Speaker 1: you know, your reaction. So we see him not be there,
Speaker 1: he's absent, and you're trying to make up for it
Speaker 1: with the kid and tell the kid it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's okay, he's in France, you know, And then you
Speaker 1: got the kid in school going no, he's not. I
Speaker 1: saw him making out with some Asian dude around the corner.
Speaker 1: Your dad's not in France.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a very sweet man. Elliott Garcia Kaufman. He
Speaker 3: plays my husband Adrian, and we I just, I mean,
Speaker 3: I just fell in love with him. I loved him
Speaker 3: because he really brought a sense of humor to that role. Uh.
Speaker 3: And he's also you know, very believable as a you know,
Speaker 3: as a scientist, as a doctor, and and he's actually
Speaker 3: a family man. He's married to his husband, and he
Speaker 3: has twins and kids and that are growing up. So
Speaker 3: he really identified a lot with the character. And he
Speaker 3: said the one thing that he didn't understand was why,
Speaker 3: you know, he left, Like, like, how could someone leave
Speaker 3: their kid like that? But I mean it happens. It
Speaker 3: happens all the time. You know, we all know that
Speaker 3: people cheat, people go out and then they come back.
Speaker 3: And you know, I wanted I mean, I don't want
Speaker 3: to ruin the ending of the movie, so I won't,
Speaker 3: but you know, I wanted it to be helpful and
Speaker 3: inspiring and and I hope that you know, like straight
Speaker 3: people will see it. I hope that uh sis, heteronormative
Speaker 3: whatever you know you call people see it because it
Speaker 3: is for a mainstream audience, know, right, And we wanted
Speaker 3: to you know, have that sense that, you know, these topics,
Speaker 3: although they are serious and important, you know, we touched
Speaker 3: them on a light note. And there's humor throughout. I
Speaker 3: think every scene has at least one you know, laugh
Speaker 3: out loud joke in it, and we want people to
Speaker 3: enjoy it as entertainment and maybe you get something out
Speaker 3: of it or you know, experiences with people that they
Speaker 3: might not know in real life, you know.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to thank you, by the way, because
Speaker 1: this touches on some really important subjects, and it grapples
Speaker 1: with some important stuff, and it includes children, you know,
Speaker 1: and our interactions with children, and it's not tragedy, poorant.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I was going to say that, not thank
Speaker 1: you for not doing that, thank you for not taking
Speaker 1: it there, because that is what happens when we're and
Speaker 1: directed about by people who don't know us. You know.
Speaker 1: Nothing made me more angry. I'm just gonna say this
Speaker 1: every time we talk about a film than when Brendan
Speaker 1: Fraser stood up and told us that the Whale was
Speaker 1: not a queer story, it was a universal story. No, honey, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. And the fact that you don't know that
Speaker 1: is the problem, and that's why we need to tell
Speaker 1: our own stories. And it resonates in such a different
Speaker 1: way because you know, if you're gonna throw some camp
Speaker 1: in there, and you did, it's got to ring true. Though.
Speaker 1: It's got to be like yep, I know them, and yep,
Speaker 1: that would happen. And when he went and you're paea,
Speaker 1: that perfect, perfect, and I'm like, yes, that would have happened.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely, Well thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3: I mean that I consider that a huge compliment. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, it was just the people involved. It's just
Speaker 3: it's a matter of the people involved in the talent
Speaker 3: you choose, you know, and and whether they can bring something.
Speaker 3: Not that straight people can't play gay characters. I don't
Speaker 3: think that's true, but I think that in certain films.
Speaker 3: I think it is important for authentic representation. And I
Speaker 3: think certainly, I mean the trans experience, Like we don't
Speaker 3: know enough about that as a society, you know, for
Speaker 3: I think assist gender person to play a trans person
Speaker 3: at this time and our lives, I mean, we still
Speaker 3: need to learn and be educated, you know, and maybe
Speaker 3: one day we'll get there. But I don't think we're
Speaker 3: there right now at all.
Speaker 1: And thank you for saying that, right because I agree
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean absolutely. I mean I don't think,
Speaker 3: you know, like a straight person should be playing like
Speaker 3: Harvey Milk or you know, James Baldwin either. But I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, so I think, you know, there's more flexibility
Speaker 3: with gay roles. And yeah, but it's it's still it's
Speaker 3: you know, it's art, it's well.
Speaker 1: But minimally, minimally, someone with you know, some editorial control
Speaker 1: or some directorial control, you know, needs to be of
Speaker 1: the family we're talking about, because just that presence and
Speaker 1: again not just the person getting coffee, but somebody who
Speaker 1: can say, wait a minute, that that doesn't ring true,
Speaker 1: you know, it just doesn't. I remember we we went
Speaker 1: to a what is it called when it's a play,
Speaker 1: it's not a screener, oh, a preview.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It was very much asking for feedback, and it was
Speaker 1: by invitation, you know, an honor to be there, and
Speaker 1: we love the actress. It was a one woman show.
Speaker 1: One anyway I could tell a man wrote it, and
Speaker 1: and that was my feedback. A woman would not have
Speaker 1: focused where this went. A woman would not have said
Speaker 1: these things. And the director went, that's really important. And
Speaker 1: you know the writer because a man wrote it, you know,
Speaker 1: and historian and good storyteller, but you needed some collaboration there.
Speaker 1: And you know, I see that time and time again,
Speaker 1: and especially if you're going to touch on our stories,
Speaker 1: because they do need to be told, absolutely, but we've
Speaker 1: got to we have to be involved in the telling.
Speaker 1: Alexandra did a gorgeous job. She really did.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to say I'm so proud
Speaker 3: of her, but I am. I'm so pleased with just
Speaker 3: her performance. And you know, I was so nervous asking
Speaker 3: this role because I mean it was a little bit
Speaker 3: controversial at first because it was like, well, why does
Speaker 3: she have to be Catholic? And you know all this,
Speaker 3: But then Alexander like when she read the script, she
Speaker 3: you know, and she she understood it, and I mean,
Speaker 3: she brought such great ideas to the story to help
Speaker 3: drive the story home, and and like it was her idea.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember the moment where Isabelle
Speaker 3: gives her the cross back, I do, that was her
Speaker 3: idea that wasn't in the original scripts. And she was like,
Speaker 3: what if she gives me like the cross back at
Speaker 3: the end of the scene, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like she kind of you know, and I thought
Speaker 3: that was such a great thing, and I was like, yes,
Speaker 3: but yeah, yeah, she was great and she looks great.
Speaker 3: I mean, and it's just like she just goes through
Speaker 3: so many journeys and arcs, and she's just so vulnerable
Speaker 3: and and she just you know, let us, let us
Speaker 3: capture it so well.
Speaker 1: You know. And one of the things that she portrays
Speaker 1: so brilliantly is the resilience of our in our community
Speaker 1: and you know, when there's no one else to turn to,
Speaker 1: going back to the elders, going back to the you know,
Speaker 1: the moms. I was going to say that, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Jennifer Bobby is playing Ruthie and feeding her and there's
Speaker 1: a ham and potatoes and cake and cupcakes and by
Speaker 1: the way, I have what I left over, Parmesan.
Speaker 3: I love that scene. That's one of my favorite scenes
Speaker 3: in Shandy Moore is the other the transit, who is
Speaker 3: a huge She lives in la but she's a huge
Speaker 3: as activist and she works. She's an ambassador for Elizabeth
Speaker 3: Taylor Foundation or for AIDS activism and she's amazing, just
Speaker 3: an amazing soul. And I'm so happy that we premiered
Speaker 3: in La so she was able to attend the world premiere.
Speaker 3: But we just had so much fun that day shooting.
Speaker 3: It's one of my favorite scenes when she sings her
Speaker 3: the you know, the Gospel hymn and she's like, you
Speaker 3: got church right here, And I love that because it's true.
Speaker 1: You know, I wrote that down. I wrote that quote down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got church right here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We don't have to go to a building, a cold,
Speaker 3: empty building where no one welcomes us. You want to
Speaker 3: get that type of nourishment, you know, we go where
Speaker 3: we're welcome and where we're loved, because that's what it's
Speaker 3: all about. It's about love and welcoming.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what, you know, going back to that feeling
Speaker 2: of authenticity from us telling our own stories because of
Speaker 2: the fact that you know, this was not just about
Speaker 2: the bad things that happen to the queer and trans characters,
Speaker 2: which would be the story might be the story in
Speaker 2: other hands, I feel like this film was really about
Speaker 2: the vital need that we have as queer and trans
Speaker 2: people for chosen family, because it's the chosen family that
Speaker 2: you know has your back. And yes, you know we
Speaker 2: might lose a job, lose an apartment, but that, yeah,
Speaker 2: that happens. But we have community and we have chosen
Speaker 2: family there to like catch us and pick us up
Speaker 2: and help us get back on our feet. And that's
Speaker 2: the that's the real meat of it. I think you
Speaker 2: know that we we have each other's back. We are
Speaker 2: a community. It's not just about the things that happened
Speaker 2: to us.
Speaker 3: It's about the us, yes, regarding us, regarding.
Speaker 1: Us, regarding us, and I loved it and holding us
Speaker 1: in regard was the way I took that title as well, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this works a couple of ways, and I love that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. You know, there was even that moment
Speaker 1: where your character says, I you know, I know where
Speaker 1: I went wrong, and your character never does leaven. But
Speaker 1: it's that it's that day you asked me to dance,
Speaker 1: and he says, and you said, not in front of
Speaker 1: all the straight people. That's real. Yeah, it's real.
Speaker 3: I mean that happened to me, you know, with my
Speaker 3: with my partner ten years. I mean those Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: like you feel the shame as you know, as out
Speaker 3: and proud as you are. Sometimes you get into a
Speaker 3: situation and all of a sudden you're back in the
Speaker 3: closet like and and you know, I mean I don't know,
Speaker 3: like I I guess because of the way I appear
Speaker 3: or the way I look, you know, and I'm around
Speaker 3: certain people, you know, and I hear things comments people
Speaker 3: say about trans people, about women, about you know, and
Speaker 3: because they think, oh, I'm just one of the guys,
Speaker 3: even though definitely not. You know, Uh, It's just I'm disgusted.
Speaker 3: I'm just I can't believe what comes out of people's
Speaker 3: mouths sometimes when they think they're around you know, friendly company.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's outrageous, it is. And you know, I
Speaker 1: get it sometimes when you know, I'm in an all
Speaker 1: white space and racism rais its head and I'm I
Speaker 1: was just like, come on now.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it's like we don't have time for this anymore.
Speaker 3: It's like we got to get our act together, you know,
Speaker 3: When are we going to learn?
Speaker 1: When are we going to learn? Indeed, sometimes fish can Fly?
Speaker 1: Where did that theme come from? Who introduced the idea?
Speaker 3: That's also connected from the short film Sometimes Fish Can Fly?
Speaker 3: And I just thought, you know, some people kind of
Speaker 3: parallel it like Jesus, like the Jesus fish. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's you know, open to interpretation. But I just thought, sometimes,
Speaker 3: you know, there are we have well what do you
Speaker 3: think it means? What I mean?
Speaker 1: What well? I mean there are flying fish that you know,
Speaker 1: just jump really high and whatever. Like, there are that
Speaker 1: we have a brewery called flying fish. Yes, that, you
Speaker 1: know put me on the spot. The idea, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, in nature, everything doesn't operate
Speaker 1: exactly the way. You know, we want it to be
Speaker 1: so binary. We want it to be so clear. You know,
Speaker 1: fish swim, that's all they do. But that's not you know,
Speaker 1: that's not exactly how it works. And that's what I
Speaker 1: feel like it points to that, you know, that idea
Speaker 1: if you just kind of open your mind a little
Speaker 1: bit and understand we're real because that's you know, I
Speaker 1: say time and time again, that's our real fight, you know,
Speaker 1: as trans people. That is the fight is that we exist.
Speaker 1: We need to stop arguing about the fact that we exist.
Speaker 1: Regardless of what your religion might say about me. I'm
Speaker 1: right here, you know, existing, and I'm going to be
Speaker 1: transing through this entire administration. Whatever the fuck happens like
Speaker 1: that's going that's you know, I'm not going back, So
Speaker 1: it's going to be what it is. And that's why
Speaker 1: these stories become that much more important, you know, as
Speaker 1: we have an entire party legislating against our existence and
Speaker 1: the idea of us and talking about us certainly always
Speaker 1: without us, you know, and even in the times when
Speaker 1: we're allowed into their chambers to speak, most of them
Speaker 1: don't show up. The other ones sit on their phones,
Speaker 1: and then they vote the way they were going to
Speaker 1: vote anyway. It's it is dehumanizing, and that's exactly what
Speaker 1: it's designed to be. So you know, when a movie
Speaker 1: comes along and shows our humanity, you know, shows that
Speaker 1: in the face of some you know, something really hard,
Speaker 1: losing one's job because of who you are, and of
Speaker 1: course everything that goes along with that, right, and still
Speaker 1: we are resilient, and still we go back to the
Speaker 1: people who have nurtured us, and we find our strength again,
Speaker 1: and we find our faith again, you know, and even
Speaker 1: in the shit that was going on with her, like Okay,
Speaker 1: you need a babysitter, I need something to do, and
Speaker 1: I love this kid. I love the way that story worked,
Speaker 1: you know, in some way. She was the magical element,
Speaker 1: but not what you're not right to the degree, but exactly,
Speaker 1: but we often are. That's why some cultures celebrate us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, I mean you are magical creatures. And
Speaker 3: we wanted to make sure that it was like a
Speaker 3: white savior movie and that that the kid didn't save Veronica.
Speaker 3: You know that that you know, she saved you know,
Speaker 3: her faith saved her. She saved her, so you know itself.
Speaker 3: And I think we accomplished that hopefully.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.
Speaker 3: We were very aware of that though because of past
Speaker 3: you know, films that have been popular.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I love that explanation of the fish. That's
Speaker 3: that's exactly Okay, good, well done.
Speaker 1: Gold Star, Thank you, Hudson. Paul was brilliant. Yeah, however,
Speaker 1: this child winds up identifying there was some had to
Speaker 1: be some brilliant direction involved. There had to be some
Speaker 1: you know, because I felt it. Yeah, I felt that
Speaker 1: child's responses and you know the tension between mother and child.
Speaker 1: I felt that, you know, when we see when when
Speaker 1: Isabelle innocently pulls out the picture and Mom knows because
Speaker 1: Mom's been having this argument with her child, that this
Speaker 1: child just depicted themselves as female in their drawing, and
Speaker 1: it was that look of disgust, like you keep doing
Speaker 1: this to us, And wow, wow, this kid was good
Speaker 1: and captured so much of the fear of the dread
Speaker 1: of the I have to stop now. I lived that.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, I lived it. You know. Puberty was that
Speaker 1: moment where it's like you got to put the ship
Speaker 1: away now, you got to stop because you know the
Speaker 1: violence is only going to escalate. It's for your safety
Speaker 1: that you stopped this girl now.
Speaker 3: And I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, Hudson Paul is
Speaker 3: an amazing actor and I'm sure he identifies as a
Speaker 3: cist gender male and uh, and he's just I'm sure
Speaker 3: he has an amazing acting career ahead of him. He's
Speaker 3: done a lot of TV uh as well. I think
Speaker 3: he just had a guest starring role in Blue Bloods
Speaker 3: where he plays a totally different character. He's like a
Speaker 3: shooter or something. But so he's he's quite ana million.
Speaker 3: But I Alabama, I was so you know, I was
Speaker 3: so worried about I was so nervous about casting this role.
Speaker 3: And we cast I mean, we auditioned all kinds of
Speaker 3: different kids, non binary cis and uh, just I mean Kyle,
Speaker 3: I call him Kyle, but Hudson's tape just blew me away,
Speaker 3: and we when we are met him in person. And
Speaker 3: then he auditioned with his older brother, Jacob Moran, who
Speaker 3: played Man. I knew they had just, you know, the
Speaker 3: family resemblance, especially with Abigail Hawk, who plays Constance, the mother.
Speaker 3: We all kind of wanted. I wanted them to be
Speaker 3: sort of like an all American you know, quote unquote family.
Speaker 3: The other families in the movie are you know, all
Speaker 3: very different, you know looking, so I thought, let's get
Speaker 3: them sort of like you know, and and it works
Speaker 3: out and and just Kyle brings such a sensitivity to
Speaker 3: the role. And I mean, of course, you know, we
Speaker 3: we worked with him. And the parents were amazing too,
Speaker 3: because when you're cast a kid, you're also casting the parents.
Speaker 3: And he comes from a family of artists and his
Speaker 3: older brother as a filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Oh so they get it.
Speaker 3: So they get it. Yeah, they really got it. I
Speaker 3: was really nervous because we had actually a couple of
Speaker 3: kids who backed out of the callback because the parents
Speaker 3: actually read the scripts okay in the cereal and they
Speaker 3: were like, oh, I don't think so this is.
Speaker 2: Not for us, not my baby.
Speaker 3: I get it. And you know, there's no sense in
Speaker 3: trying to persuade them.
Speaker 1: Not at all, not at all, because because you would
Speaker 1: not have had the quality you had here. This was
Speaker 1: a young actor fully committed to the role. Yeah. Whoever
Speaker 1: did the you know, gave those prompts and worked with
Speaker 1: this child got it. They got it. And I felt it,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I was right there with Kyle
Speaker 1: and unto you know, I had an older brother who
Speaker 1: encouraged me to suicide. I had that older brother. So
Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, like, how did you
Speaker 1: so many of these moments that were like you know,
Speaker 1: uh real.
Speaker 3: I love that you saw Mark, that you saw yourself
Speaker 3: as Alabama and like but even like older gay men
Speaker 3: have said, you know, I saw myself with Alabama, you know,
Speaker 3: and right, I mean, we don't put a label on Alabama.
Speaker 3: Like you know, they could grow up to be you know,
Speaker 3: maybe gay or trans or or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, but that's important.
Speaker 3: To leave it open. And I don't know, like I
Speaker 3: love that at the end because you don't really know
Speaker 3: what happens to that family they disappear. But and Isabelle
Speaker 3: at the end of the letter, you know, she says,
Speaker 3: you know, I always pray for you and your family Alabama.
Speaker 3: Do the prayers work? And you know that always makes
Speaker 3: me cheer up because it's like we as the audience,
Speaker 3: don't know off the prayers work, but we have hopefully,
Speaker 3: we have faith that they do work, and hopefully Alabama
Speaker 3: will be safe, you know, and and be the person
Speaker 3: that they're you know, meant to be. So we hope
Speaker 3: that that happens for Alabama.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that struggle is captured, that struggle of you know,
Speaker 1: who we're told we are and and needing to obey,
Speaker 1: you know, in some way, and that absolute feeling of
Speaker 1: I'm betraying my family by existing, just by existing in
Speaker 1: the way that I do, and it incorrectly human, right
Speaker 1: that that that right there, and it was portrayed with
Speaker 1: sensitivity and brilliant and just the interaction of the adults
Speaker 1: with the kids, because that's the reality of how we
Speaker 1: do interact with children. Many of us are parents, some
Speaker 1: of the best parents I've ever fucking met, and you know,
Speaker 1: we do connect with children in reali and loving ways.
Speaker 1: And you know that that that pedophile moniker that that
Speaker 1: they like to chase us with while they're the ones
Speaker 1: actually doing that has always been sickening, and this does
Speaker 1: a great job of showing the ways that you know,
Speaker 1: kids thrive with queer and transparents. They do, they do.
Speaker 1: And I saw that, you know, that was portrayed. It
Speaker 1: was it was obvious, and it was also obvious what
Speaker 1: does happen, you know, among religious people. I thought it
Speaker 1: was interesting actually that it was a Catholic mother and
Speaker 1: not an Evangelical mother for us, right, because that's so
Speaker 1: common there, because I know Catholics who you know, kind
Speaker 1: of hold on to some of that but are very
Speaker 1: transient and queer affirming. So, you know, because the people
Speaker 1: I once had a therap one of my therapists say,
Speaker 1: you Catholics think religion is a cafeteria and you can
Speaker 1: justify almost anything. You just like, you know, you're walking
Speaker 1: down You're like, you know, have some of this, don't
Speaker 1: have some of that? You know, of course I'm going
Speaker 1: to be on the pill, but I'm not going to
Speaker 1: tell anyone like that kind of thing. And that was
Speaker 1: the first time anyone had ever phrased it like that
Speaker 1: to me, that like some of us actually grapple with
Speaker 1: real human issues and really try to come to this
Speaker 1: place of what love is supposed to be and what
Speaker 1: you know, love thy neighbor is supposed to be. And
Speaker 1: this was a queer ordained minister who did a lot
Speaker 1: of teaching, and I just it pulled me up short
Speaker 1: and I went, you know that way because I was
Speaker 1: busy at the cafeteria.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting thought. I mean, you know, being
Speaker 3: in Catholic school for thirteen years, I felt so much
Speaker 3: love from so many nuns, you know, growing up, and
Speaker 3: I had some of the best teachers I've ever had
Speaker 3: with Catholic nuns. I'll just I'll never forget sistered On
Speaker 3: in the sixth grade. She was she taught math and religion,
Speaker 3: and I learned so much. We learned how to read
Speaker 3: the Bible, like she said, fundamentally, never read the Bible. Fundamentally,
Speaker 3: it's the worst way to read the Bible. And he said,
Speaker 3: you read it critically, you know, And that's yes, although
Speaker 3: I do remember we were learning about the ten Commandments
Speaker 3: and the sins, and I just try to remember foremost sexuality.
Speaker 3: Mortals said, I'll never hear the big bubble curse of
Speaker 3: beautiful handwriting that you know, cracks me up to this day.
Speaker 3: But so it's a fact. But you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: like you you take what you know. I mean, I
Speaker 3: guess I'm a cafeteria Catholic too, but you know, you
Speaker 3: take what you want, what works for you. But yeah,
Speaker 3: there's so much love and I don't know one one
Speaker 3: person did say, oh, you're just passion Catholics in this movie,
Speaker 3: and they were rather upset, but I do. I wanted to,
Speaker 3: especially with Abigail Hawk's character, the character of Constance, because
Speaker 3: I guess she could be perceived as a villain. But
Speaker 3: I the only note that I gave her was that
Speaker 3: she loves her kids. You know, she loves her kids
Speaker 3: and she does everything because she loves them. And you know,
Speaker 3: even if she acts out of fear or ignorance, it's
Speaker 3: because she loves right. And I wanted that to be clear.
Speaker 3: There's love there, yeah, because those you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: that comes from personal history, you know, of Jennifer and me,
Speaker 3: and we wanted to make sure that that was captured.
Speaker 3: So because you know, we know that that your parents
Speaker 3: love you no matter what they do, and it's important
Speaker 3: they do their best.
Speaker 1: They do their best. I you know, that's the place
Speaker 1: I try to get folks. You know, they did their best.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean they did it good, but they did their best.
Speaker 1: You know. That's and nobody sets out to be a
Speaker 1: shitty parent or a hateful one, but it happens. There
Speaker 1: were there were just so many themes. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: you know, ruin the end, but I loved. I loved
Speaker 1: the way it ended, the things that resolved and the
Speaker 1: things that didn't. There was you know, triumph in the end.
Speaker 1: Some things that you know, we're left there, we don't
Speaker 1: because we don't know, you know, which is what a
Speaker 1: film is, right a moment in time. Everything doesn't always resolve,
Speaker 1: but we tell a story, and this story was one
Speaker 1: of resilience. And you know, going back to that idea,
Speaker 1: it's always on the table. That is true, not just
Speaker 1: of queer and trans people. You know, I know plenty
Speaker 1: of misfits in this world, plenty of folks who struggle
Speaker 1: with mental health, for whom it's also like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not that I want to die, but I need
Speaker 1: a lot of this shit to end and I'm working
Speaker 1: on it. But yeah, always on the table, and that's real,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just a real part of the
Speaker 1: existence of somebody who's had a lot of trauma and
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stuff, and for whom things have
Speaker 1: not always gone well, you know. So I followed it.
Speaker 1: I followed the theme. I thought it was brilliant, and
Speaker 1: again it this. I saw our people. I saw the
Speaker 1: people I know and and interact with every day of represented.
Speaker 1: We're not perfect, God knows, but the love that we
Speaker 1: do share, and I think sometimes better than anyone comes through,
Speaker 1: comes through.
Speaker 3: Brava, thank you so much that that means a lot
Speaker 3: to me. So I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Very much, very much. How do folks access this film?
Speaker 3: Good questions? It is now available for pre order on
Speaker 3: Apple TV and iTunes.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 3: You don't have to have a subscription to order it.
Speaker 3: It's twelve ninety nine, And even if you do have
Speaker 3: a subscription, you still have to order. It's twelve ninety
Speaker 3: it's available. Yeah, that's the pre order, and then on
Speaker 3: January twenty eighth you'll be able to enjoy it and
Speaker 3: watch it in the comfort of your own home. And
Speaker 3: on January twenty eighth, it will also be released on
Speaker 3: Amazon Prime and YouTube TV, where you can either rent
Speaker 3: or buy it, and yeah, and we're hoping that, you know,
Speaker 3: we're still looking for an exclusive deal somewhere, but yeah,
Speaker 3: it'll be there for three months and then it'll go
Speaker 3: to Avon, which it'll be on two B and places
Speaker 3: like that, you know, Sling TV and places like that.
Speaker 3: So I hope just you know, we reach as many
Speaker 3: people as we can with this, with this movie and
Speaker 3: with this message, and I think that people will really
Speaker 3: enjoy it. We played in New York for a week
Speaker 3: at Cinema Village in the East Village, and the audience
Speaker 3: responses have been amazing. We've gotten a few reviews and
Speaker 3: they've all been excellent. Uh, so I'm really excited. The
Speaker 3: screenplay we it was just I don't know who submitted us,
Speaker 3: but we just uh, they want us to be in
Speaker 3: the permanent core collection of the Library, the Motion Picture
Speaker 3: Academy of Arts and Sciences, a little part of cinema history.
Speaker 3: So that's exciting. Yeah, beautiful. So things are going, well.
Speaker 1: What else are you doing, dude? What's what's on your horizon?
Speaker 3: Oh? What else am I doing? Lots of things? Well,
Speaker 3: we got a couple of projects in development. Uh, Jennifer
Speaker 3: and I wrote a series based on her character Aunt Barbara,
Speaker 3: called Time Out with Anne Barbara, and it's a it's
Speaker 3: an adult comedy inside children's programming. It's very fun. So
Speaker 3: we're looking for a home for that. I have a
Speaker 3: feature film about the last days of the famed composer
Speaker 3: Pieter Tchaikowsky, which I don't know if you know much
Speaker 3: about his life, but he was a big gay man.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I knew that part. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: very it's a it's a beautiful, fascinating psychological thriller from
Speaker 3: the point of view of his nephew who's also gay
Speaker 3: and a morphine at it. And it's it's very like
Speaker 3: Darren Aronofski esque picture.
Speaker 1: So I'm old.
Speaker 3: It really Yeah, it's it's exciting. And I have a
Speaker 3: choreographer attached upon to Slidberg, who as a Swedish choreographer
Speaker 3: who lives in Paris, and he did this thing at
Speaker 3: the Joyce. I don't know if you go to a
Speaker 3: lot of dance, but he did this piece.
Speaker 1: Of choreographer choreographer.
Speaker 3: Oh, he did this piece of the Joyce called uh
Speaker 3: the Invention of rabbits or but it was about the
Speaker 3: AIDS epidemic and it just it like really like broke
Speaker 3: my heart. And I thought it I didn't know what
Speaker 3: it was about because I didn't read it, and I
Speaker 3: was just kind of using my imagination, and I thought
Speaker 3: it was like about addiction because I had these blue
Speaker 3: balloons and then they became black and they rose them
Speaker 3: up and then it weighed them down. So I said, oh,
Speaker 3: it's like addiction. But it was actually about you know, disease,
Speaker 3: the AIDS crisis, and and it was just I have
Speaker 3: never seen dancing like that, and uh, it just I
Speaker 3: was like, oh my gosh. And I just I'd never
Speaker 3: wrote a screenplay so fast before. I just got like
Speaker 3: such such inspiration. But that's you know, that's the beauty
Speaker 3: of art, right.
Speaker 2: And you you you dance the way that I do, Like,
Speaker 2: don't read the program, take it as it is and
Speaker 2: see what you get from it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that. I mean, I don't go to
Speaker 3: dance very often, but my friend invited me and we
Speaker 3: were in like the first row, so it was kind
Speaker 3: of neat. Yeah, yeah, I love it. But yeah, you
Speaker 3: take what you get from it, you know. That's what
Speaker 3: I don't like to read critics reviews before I see
Speaker 3: movies or plays either. I just like to go with
Speaker 3: you know, an open mind, an open part, right.
Speaker 2: Because you don't want to say looking for things and
Speaker 2: being disappointed if what you thought it is it isn't
Speaker 2: And yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've refused to interviews where the work was bad,
Speaker 1: just so you know where it's like, I can't find
Speaker 1: the words and I won't trash a fellow queer publicly,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to do that, but it's just
Speaker 1: like this needs some help. This film does not, so
Speaker 1: you know, I was thrilled to talk about it. You know,
Speaker 1: as we were watching it last night, I'm just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, it resonates it so the characters feel real
Speaker 1: to me. This is queer storytelling, trans storytelling at its best,
Speaker 1: and this is what is possible. And I hope it's
Speaker 1: just the first of many. I hope, you know. That's
Speaker 1: one of the things I hope, I'm an eternal optimist
Speaker 1: comes out of this ugly period. Is more of the
Speaker 1: ability for us to tell our own stories and portray
Speaker 1: our own characters, yes, and community members, and tell the
Speaker 1: stories that matter. And you hit so many places that
Speaker 1: were important to see that we're important to give voice too.
Speaker 1: Like I said, you know, the kids interacting with the
Speaker 1: adults without preaching. He didn't preach.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, I hope not. Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know like that that you know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, a woman who's trans is a Catholic seems
Speaker 3: to gets fired from her job, and then you know,
Speaker 3: it sounds very heavy handed. I know, I'm preachy, but
Speaker 3: it's yeah, it's not at all actually, And and that's
Speaker 3: one of the I think the strengths of the film
Speaker 3: is that, you know, it's it's very approachable and enjoyable
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, you can be laughing and you
Speaker 3: know a lot of people crying. I was kind of surprised.
Speaker 1: But well, why did that surprise you?
Speaker 3: I don't know, because I guess because you know, I want,
Speaker 3: you know, you want people to feel a certain way
Speaker 3: or you want to move people. And then it always
Speaker 3: sort of I'm always kind of surprised when when people
Speaker 3: say what they take took away.
Speaker 1: They like it, they really like they like it in.
Speaker 3: The audience in the back. It's hard for me to watch,
Speaker 3: you know, in front of all with an audience. Oh
Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, it's really because I see, like everything
Speaker 3: that's wrong, or I'm like, well we can you know,
Speaker 3: redo that.
Speaker 1: So you know, eventually you just got to let the
Speaker 1: baby be born.
Speaker 3: You just got to let it go. And it is
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there wasn't a part where I felt like, well,
Speaker 1: this could go quicker. I didn't have that moment. I
Speaker 1: really didn't. And you know, I fell in love with
Speaker 1: a lot of the characters. And I have heard similar arguments,
Speaker 1: like the principal, you know, was that heavy handed. I've
Speaker 1: had that discussion with somebody explaining you know, my existence
Speaker 1: to me, and it can be that insulting and clear.
Speaker 1: That's a part of our lives. Yeah, and sometimes we
Speaker 1: don't even see it so much because we're so used
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that that was a conversation we had with
Speaker 3: I mean, she's that's a brilliant actress, Katherine Curton. She's
Speaker 3: you know, it's been on Orange is the New Black
Speaker 3: and Homeland.
Speaker 1: That's where I recognized her from Orange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a brilliant actress. And she's also in the
Speaker 3: Saturday Night Night Live movie just came out, And we
Speaker 3: had that conversation and I'm like, well, should she be
Speaker 3: like a little bit compassionate and we were like, no,
Speaker 3: let's just make her a total you know, doesn't care.
Speaker 3: This is just like I'm sick of you. I never
Speaker 3: liked you, and we're done, you know, because that happens,
Speaker 3: you know, And yeah.
Speaker 1: There was you know, I had this moment and this
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons I rewatched it because I
Speaker 1: in my initial watch I thought it was never clear
Speaker 1: why she got fired, Like how did this blow up?
Speaker 1: How did you know who she is as a trans
Speaker 1: woman come about? You know? Then I kind of started
Speaker 1: to feel like the neighbor had something to do with it,
Speaker 1: or at least the neighbor caught on. And in watching
Speaker 1: it the second time, I really it doesn't matter it
Speaker 1: Actually that is, it does not matter to the story.
Speaker 1: The point is it can happen, and you know, as
Speaker 1: good as we might be at what we do and
Speaker 1: as much as we may thrive, it can be taken
Speaker 1: away like that, you know, like, oh, dumb, stupid me.
Speaker 1: I worked for a Catholic school.
Speaker 3: And that's interesting that you said that, because I thought
Speaker 3: I was like, we need to be more specific about
Speaker 3: how she's out it, or you know, how like who
Speaker 3: tells honor who that she can fide in someone or
Speaker 3: is it a disgruntled parent, And Jennifer kept saying, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, it's not germane to the story, it's not
Speaker 3: about that, because she's absolutely right, then people will make
Speaker 3: it about that. Yeah, and so that's very good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we did not need a specific villain there.
Speaker 1: We didn't need.
Speaker 3: That again exactly because then it would be about that
Speaker 3: and that person, and right, we don't want to put
Speaker 3: the focus.
Speaker 1: One, right, And so what it does is, you know,
Speaker 1: it shows the aftermath. It shows that these things are possible.
Speaker 1: You know, our lives can be upended and fully beyond
Speaker 1: our control and it has happened, and you know that
Speaker 1: is too often possible. We're you know, we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: get the benefit of a doubt. So again, it's storytelling,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't devolve into today, it doesn't devolve into
Speaker 1: you know, this like beating drama of you've got to
Speaker 1: be nicer to trans people because you probably won't be
Speaker 1: like and we know it, and so but we keep going.
Speaker 3: I mean, there are sadly a lot of tragic stories,
Speaker 3: you know about trans people and queer people, and and
Speaker 3: those stories are important too and told. But yeah, we
Speaker 3: wanted we wanted to keep it. We wanted to end
Speaker 3: on a hopeful note, you know, and and just have
Speaker 3: a be real life. And I mean, the my favorite experience.
Speaker 3: The thing with this All experience is I met so
Speaker 3: many brilliant, amazing trans women through this experience, like Martine
Speaker 3: roth Black, Marcy Bauers, you know, uh, and so many
Speaker 3: people who ended up not contributing to the film, but
Speaker 3: like I just learning about them. And they're I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, no one's alone without obviously, you know, and
Speaker 3: they're assholes in there every every community.
Speaker 1: I could introduce you to several.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just so brilliant and kind and just you know,
Speaker 3: they think outside the box and it's just like they
Speaker 3: have ideas and I'm like, let's listen, you know, because
Speaker 3: because if you're forced to live in like a different
Speaker 3: way than other people, then obviously you have to think smarter,
Speaker 3: you know, and you have to think differently, and maybe
Speaker 3: we can learn like as a as a mass society
Speaker 3: from these people, you know, And do you thanks? Because yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean you're forced to be resourceful, you
Speaker 3: have to be resilient, you have no choice, right.
Speaker 1: Kind of part kind of and you know that's not
Speaker 1: always true, and we do have young people who have
Speaker 1: had it easier. You know, this this particular last ten
Speaker 1: years or so has not been so easy, but levels
Speaker 1: of acceptance have been different. So we've been able to
Speaker 1: raise some brats, you know, referencing again American teenager, like
Speaker 1: there's a couple of kids. Yeah, there's there's a transcript
Speaker 1: with enormous privilege who was never you know, she's heard
Speaker 1: the stories, but that's not her life at all. You know,
Speaker 1: that's not her life at all. Yeah, she goes to
Speaker 1: this wonderful liberal school in California where you know, there's
Speaker 1: two hundred kids in the GSA. Everybody's queer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think about the people. I mean
Speaker 3: I was born in eighty three, but I think about
Speaker 3: the people who came before me, you know, the queer
Speaker 3: men and women and trans people that just broke down
Speaker 3: so much and suffered so much and thought, you know,
Speaker 3: and it's just like, we wouldn't be where we were
Speaker 3: without the people came before us.
Speaker 1: And then, you know what, thank you for that, because
Speaker 1: that was the other thing I wanted to mention that
Speaker 1: for many of us, our lives are intergenerational. We don't
Speaker 1: just live amongst people who are our age. You know,
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of younger people that there
Speaker 1: have been children in my life for my whole life,
Speaker 1: and I turned to the elders often. You know, some
Speaker 1: of my best friends are in their seventies, so we
Speaker 1: have such a mix of folks. And that's captured too that.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, thank you for saying that. I mean,
Speaker 3: I didn't even think of that, but I guess it's true.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess as an actor and someone from
Speaker 3: the theater and film, you're it's like you become a
Speaker 3: family whenever you're in a play. And one of my
Speaker 3: best friends is a ninety three year old you know,
Speaker 3: Jewish woman and grandma, and she's one of my best friends.
Speaker 3: I talk to her every day. And and then I
Speaker 3: you know, I'm friends with kids and people in their twenties,
Speaker 3: and and I get, yeah, I love that, and I
Speaker 3: like that the gay couple, you know, like I'm a
Speaker 3: little younger and he's a little older. And but that's
Speaker 3: very common, you know, a community, and it's not like
Speaker 3: a thing that like people talk they're like, oh, he's
Speaker 3: so much older than you. I remember a family member
Speaker 3: who saw the movie was like Oh, he's an older man.
Speaker 3: And I didn't even think of it, you know, I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I guess he.
Speaker 1: Is right, but yeah, it's makes perfect time. Again, how
Speaker 1: many couples do we know? I'm I'm older than you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it happens, and I think, I mean, she's not
Speaker 3: going to get mad at me saying this because she
Speaker 3: said this before. But like Jennifer and I are from
Speaker 3: different you know, generations, and I think that works as
Speaker 3: a writing team, because that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: You know, I imagine Jennifer and I are closer in age.
Speaker 3: Jennifer's jen X. She's to me, I don't know something.
Speaker 1: I just turned fifty nine.
Speaker 3: So just for reference, Oh, happy birthday.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you made it this far, made it this far.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: Please let us know what's happening and and when you
Speaker 1: do more because we would love to talk to you again.
Speaker 3: This was a pleasure. Thank you so much. I mean,
Speaker 3: thank you for watching the film and you know this
Speaker 3: extensive interview. It doesn't happen, so we're officially fan.
Speaker 1: That's what we do. And thank you so much for
Speaker 1: creating this film.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's I think it's more important than you realize yet
Speaker 1: I do, and I was an honor to watch it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, my pleasure, David Beck for your
Speaker 1: time and your skill and this beautiful film. And please
Speaker 1: send our love to Jennifer because wow, the two of
Speaker 1: you really created something amazing.
Speaker 3: Definitely will Yeah, I know she's very.
Speaker 1: Sad for not being here, so I would love to
Speaker 1: meet her someday.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will.
Speaker 1: I am Martha Madrid and I am Charles Tyson Jr.
Speaker 1: And you've been listening to Full Circle the podcast, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much.
Speaker 2: Full Circle is a Never Scurred Productions podcast posted by
Speaker 2: Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by
Speaker 2: Never Scurd Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 2: Our theme in music is by the jingle Marys.
Speaker 1: All names, pictures
Speaker 2: Music, audio, and video clips are registered trademarks and or
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