1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so I want you to just for a second 2 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:05,280 picture of this. There's this object about the size. 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,879 Speaker 2: Of Manhattan, right, huge. 4 00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Huge, and it's just hurtling through our solar system. Now, 5 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,279 the official story, the classification, is that it's just a comment, 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,199 you know, a boring run of the mill comic. 7 00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: What if it's not? 8 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: What if it's not? What if that Manhattan sized object 9 00:00:19,879 --> 00:00:25,480 is actually a nuclear powered alien spacecraft on a deliberate 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:26,559 reconnaissance mission. 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,719 Speaker 2: And that is the ultimate high stakes question hanging over 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,600 all of astronomy right now. I mean, this isn't just 13 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,079 some fun hypothetical you'd see in a movie. No, this 14 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,359 is a genuine, active scientific debate happening between world renowned 15 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:44,079 physicists about a real interstellar visitor. 16 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: That's right, and welcome to the deep dive. Our mission 17 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,320 for you today is to get you the most comprehensive 18 00:00:49,359 --> 00:00:53,240 briefing possible on this this incredibly anomalous object. It's called 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,479 three I T lists. 20 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,759 Speaker 2: And we should probably say it right from the get go. 21 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,799 It's pronounced three i at lists. 22 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,679 Speaker 1: Three i at lists exactly. And you are about to 23 00:01:00,679 --> 00:01:04,400 be dropped right into the middle of this intellectual collision 24 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,840 between two absolute titans in the field. 25 00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: On one side, you have doctor Michio Kaku. He's arguing 26 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,000 for a natural explanation, but one that hinges on an 27 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,359 almost unimaginable age for this object. 28 00:01:16,359 --> 00:01:18,519 Speaker 1: Well, on the other side, you have Professor Avi Lobe 29 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,200 from Harvard who argues that the anomalies, the weird things 30 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,400 about this object are just too profound to ignore and 31 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,879 they might actually signal alien technology. 32 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: This isn't just a polite academic disagreement. The fundamental divide 33 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,680 here is really about how you treat an anomaly in science. 34 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,200 How so well do you stretch the known laws of 35 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:40,640 physics and chemistry to try and make it fit, or 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,439 do you take a step back and say, maybe maybe 37 00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:46,280 the anomaly itself is pointing into something we don't know at. 38 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: All, something designed. 39 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,799 Speaker 2: Something possibly designed. And we're going to be pulling all 40 00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:53,840 the key pieces of this puzzle directly from our sources today, 41 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,879 which are some fantastic interviews from News Nation that featured 42 00:01:56,879 --> 00:01:57,799 both of these experts. 43 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: And let's get the basic facts on the table right away, 44 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,719 because this is happening now. The clock is ticking. It 45 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:06,799 really is three ietlasts. Three Ietlass is an interstellar object 46 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,120 that means it came from outside our solar system, beyond 47 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:11,000 the pull of our Sun. 48 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: And the critical date, the one everyone is waiting for, 49 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,240 is December nineteenth, which. 50 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: From the time of this discussion is less than six 51 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,680 weeks away. So what happens on December nineteenth. 52 00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: That's its closest pass to Earth. It is still going 53 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:25,400 to be very very far away, to be clear, but 54 00:02:25,479 --> 00:02:28,599 it's our best chance to get the clearest data. It's 55 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,719 the moment of truth. 56 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's start with the first sight of this argument, 57 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:35,960 the case for this being a deeply strange but ultimately natural, 58 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:37,439 very old. 59 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 2: Comet, right because when three ilass was first spotted, the 60 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,360 initial classification was comet, that's what it looked like. 61 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:44,599 Speaker 1: But that didn't last long. 62 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: No, yeah, almost immediately the standard comet playbook just got 63 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,919 thrown out the window. We started getting observations that simply 64 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,599 didn't line up with our definition of a you know, 65 00:02:54,759 --> 00:02:56,599 a dirty snowball from the Oort cloud. 66 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: And that first big observation, the one that really threw 67 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,680 a round. I remember seeing all the chatter about this online, 68 00:03:04,159 --> 00:03:05,879 was the mystery of its tail. 69 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: Or more accurately, the lack of. 70 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:11,719 Speaker 1: One exactly there were these new images, and interestingly, they 71 00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:14,759 were coming from observatories in Spain, not NASA. 72 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: We'll get to the NASA part later because that's a 73 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,719 whole other story it is. 74 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: But these images from Spain seem to show the object 75 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:23,240 losing its tail completely after it. 76 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:26,719 Speaker 2: Passed the Sun, and that is a classic huge red flag. 77 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,879 A comet's tail is its defining feature, right, It's what 78 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,000 makes it comet a comet. 79 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,599 Speaker 1: It's the whole show it is. 80 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,719 Speaker 2: It's what happens when the Sun's energy, the solar wind 81 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,599 blasts the frozen ices on the comet's surface, the water, methane, 82 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,919 carbon monoxide and turns them into gas. That gas and 83 00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:48,199 dust creates the glow the coma and the tail that 84 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:49,159 streams behind it. 85 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,319 Speaker 1: So if the tail just vanishes. 86 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,639 Speaker 2: It suggests one of two things. Either the object has 87 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:56,680 completely run out of those volatile. 88 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,719 Speaker 1: Ices like an old spent comment, right. 89 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: Or it was never made of the standard stuff we 90 00:04:01,719 --> 00:04:04,120 associate with comments from our solar system in the first place. 91 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's use that as a jumping off point 92 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,439 for doctor Kaku's perspective, because he takes these bizarre observations 93 00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:15,039 like the missing tail, and he constructs this really, I mean, 94 00:04:15,039 --> 00:04:19,399 it's an incredibly elegant natural explanation, it really is, And. 95 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:24,439 Speaker 2: His entire solution hangs on one single factor time immense 96 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,680 almost unimaginable stretches of time. Kaku's key argument is that 97 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:32,279 three I at LEAs isn't just some random interstellar traveler. 98 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:34,240 He thinks it's a very. 99 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,439 Speaker 1: Old object, and he puts a number on it. 100 00:04:36,519 --> 00:04:39,399 Speaker 2: He does. He places its likely age around a staggering 101 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:40,839 seven billion years old. 102 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,319 Speaker 1: Wow, okay, So why is that number so important? Seven billion? 103 00:04:44,439 --> 00:04:47,959 Speaker 2: Because it provides context the comments that are native to 104 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,879 our own solar system, the ones out in the Kuiper 105 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:52,680 Belt or the Ort Cloud, they're typically around three to 106 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,079 four billion years old. 107 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,439 Speaker 1: The same age as our Solar system itself exactly. 108 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,319 Speaker 2: So what we're dealing with here is an object that 109 00:04:58,399 --> 00:05:01,000 is potentially twice the age of anything from our own 110 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:01,920 cosmic backyard. 111 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: That's an extra what three four billion years spent just 112 00:05:04,879 --> 00:05:08,279 drifting through interstellar space, passing through who knows how many 113 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,839 different star systems. 114 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: Nebulae precisely, and that age gap is the engine of 115 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,600 Kaku's whole theory. He argues that this object has had 116 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:21,319 an enormous amount of time to accumulate, as he colorfully 117 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,680 puts it, garbage, cosmic garbage, cosmic garbage. This process of 118 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:32,040 just gathering dust gas, different elements from countless different stellar neighborhoods, 119 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:36,439 maybe remnants of supernovae. That's what he believes explains its 120 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,759 profoundly anomalous chemical makeup. 121 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: And we really need to slow down and talk about 122 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,959 that chemical composition because this is the scientific smoking gun 123 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,959 for Coacou's theory. It is he specifically points to the 124 00:05:47,079 --> 00:05:51,199 nickel content and the iron content being completely off scale. Now, 125 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,120 for those of us who aren't astrophysicists, why is finding 126 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,160 a lot of nickel and iron and a comet so weird? 127 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: That is the critical question. I think of a standard comet, 128 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,000 we call it a dirty snow for a reason. It's 129 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,800 mostly rich in volatiles. 130 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:04,199 Speaker 1: The ices, the ices, yeah, yeah. 131 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: Water, methane, all those HNCO compounds. Nickel and iron, on 132 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,199 the other hand, are what we call refractory element, meaning 133 00:06:10,399 --> 00:06:14,279 they require extremely high temperatures to turn into gas. When 134 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:16,519 our solar system was forming four and a half billion 135 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,399 years ago, materials like iron and nickel condensed much closer 136 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:23,600 to the hot young Sun. That's what formed the rocky 137 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,120 planets like Earth and Mars. 138 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so the heavy rocky stuff stayed close to the fire, 139 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:29,759 so to speak. 140 00:06:29,519 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: Exactly, and the light, icy, volatile stuff got pushed way 141 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,480 out of the cold, distant edges to the Oort cloud. 142 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,720 So a traditional comet should be like a pristine, frozen 143 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,600 sample of those original ices. 144 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: So when astronomers point a spectroscope at an object they 145 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,439 think is a comet and the readings for nickel and 146 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,519 iron come back off scale, like way outside the expected range, 147 00:06:51,959 --> 00:06:53,079 that's a huge problem. 148 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:56,879 Speaker 2: It's a paradox. Yeah, that composition is just incompatible with 149 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,439 the idea that it formed and the cold, icy nursery 150 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:02,120 of our solar system four billion years ago. 151 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:05,199 Speaker 1: But Cook, who resolves this paradox with time? 152 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: He does. He says, Look, seven billion years is more 153 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,279 than enough time for this thing to have encountered multiple 154 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:13,480 star systems, maybe pass through different accretion disks, maybe even 155 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,879 spent some time in a much warmer environment. You're a 156 00:07:15,879 --> 00:07:17,959 different kind of star long long ago. 157 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,839 Speaker 1: So over billions of years, it just collected and held 158 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:26,360 on to this this metallic garbage that a younger purer 159 00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:29,199 commet from our own neighborhood just wouldn't have. 160 00:07:29,519 --> 00:07:32,959 Speaker 2: And suddenly the object isn't evidence of alien engineering. It's 161 00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:36,639 a product of much deeper, much longer cosmic history. 162 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, that makes an incredible amount of sense. It's 163 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,160 good scientific logic, right, use the least exotic explanation first. 164 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: Ockham's razor right. 165 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: And in this case, the most powerful force isn't aliens. 166 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,240 It's just time. He uses that one dimension to explain 167 00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:56,000 away all the weird chemical signatures. It's a beautifully simple 168 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,720 way to dismiss the need for alien probes, and. 169 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:01,399 Speaker 2: It really speaks to the nature of interstellar travel itself. 170 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,000 If you're coming from a different star, you're not bound 171 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,279 by the chemical history of our star. It's entirely possible 172 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:09,600 this object formed in a region of space where nickel 173 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:11,800 and iron were just much more common in the original 174 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:12,480 gas cloud. 175 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,839 Speaker 1: Speaking of comment, it's clear this whole debate has reached 176 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:20,040 far beyond the scientific community. Kaku shared this great little 177 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,600 anecdote in the interview that shows just how much this 178 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,240 has captured the public's imagination. 179 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,319 Speaker 2: It was a very telling moment, and I think it's 180 00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:27,759 something we can all kind of recognize. 181 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:28,879 Speaker 1: So what happened. 182 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: Cacusaid he was just sitting on an airplane and he 183 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,879 overheard the people near him talking, actually arguing back and 184 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:38,679 forth about the nature of this comment. Oh way, yeah, 185 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,399 he the world expert theoretical physicist, was just sitting there 186 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,360 quietly listening to civilians debate the chemical composition and origin 187 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:48,679 of three adellis. 188 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:51,399 Speaker 1: I would pay so much money to see that, just 189 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,720 to watch the temptation on his face to lean over 190 00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:56,879 and be like, excuse me, I happen to understand string 191 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,200 theory and the math behind this object, and I'm here 192 00:08:59,240 --> 00:08:59,679 to tell. 193 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: You, he said. The temptation was very high, but he resisted. 194 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,480 He kept quiet. But just the fact that an interstellar 195 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,960 anomaly is now common airplane chatter, you know, it's not 196 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,879 just a footnote in the Astrophysical Journal. 197 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: No, it shows the magnetic pull this story has. It's 198 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,720 a genuine scientific mystery that everyone can get invested in. Absolutely, So, 199 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,879 before we switch gears to the more radical theory, Kaku 200 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,559 did give his official quantified assessment. He weighed in on 201 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,960 the odds of this thing actually being an engineered object. 202 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: And that's the voice of scientific caution you expect to hear. 203 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,919 He said. The odds of it being extraterrestrial in nature 204 00:09:35,039 --> 00:09:38,399 are and um quoting non zero but very small. 205 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,879 Speaker 1: Non zero but very small. I like that. 206 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: It's the perfect scientific hedge for him. You have to 207 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:47,679 remain open to the possibility, that's the non zero part, 208 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,679 but you have to prioritize the bulk of the evidence. 209 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:54,080 And so far, this object mostly behaves like an object 210 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,440 following Newtonian physics. 211 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: It responds to gravity, it interacts with the. 212 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: Sun for the most part, barring very significant anomalies. So 213 00:10:02,039 --> 00:10:05,480 for Kuku, that small chance of it being et just 214 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:09,919 doesn't outweigh the massive plausible explanation provided by extreme age. 215 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,000 It grounds the whole discussion. In reality we can test. 216 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,639 Speaker 1: Okay, now we need to slow down, take a deep breath, 217 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,559 and cross the chasm into a totally. 218 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,159 Speaker 2: Different way of thinking, a very different. 219 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Way, because if Mitchi O Kaku is using time to 220 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,639 explain away the anomalies, Professor Avi lob is grabbing those 221 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,240 same anomalies and holding them up as proof of intelligent 222 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:29,399 technological design. 223 00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:32,919 Speaker 2: And we really need to introduce Professor Loebe properly here, 224 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,559 because he is not some fringe character. He is a 225 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:39,320 highly accomplished Harvard astronomer. He's the head of the Galileo project. 226 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: I'm author of the book Extraterrestrial Right. 227 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,759 Speaker 2: He's really made a name for himself by actively pursuing 228 00:10:45,759 --> 00:10:49,919 the hypothesis that some of these astronomical oddities you might 229 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:56,159 remember the previous interstellar visitor Umomua, might actually be alien technology. 230 00:10:56,519 --> 00:10:59,799 Speaker 1: So for Loeb, the weird behavior of three ihls isn't 231 00:10:59,879 --> 00:11:01,799 just an old comment acting strange. 232 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: No, for him, it suggests steering, propulsion, even reconnaissance. 233 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,279 Speaker 1: And he doesn't just base this on a gut feeling. 234 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,679 He's using hard calculations derived from how the object behaved 235 00:11:12,759 --> 00:11:16,360 after it passed the Sun that October twenty ninth date exactly. 236 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 2: And let's start with the most compelling piece of physical 237 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,080 evidence he presents, the jets. 238 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: This is where we get into the whole fragmentation versus 239 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,159 thruster debate. 240 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:27,799 Speaker 2: So observers noted that after its closest approach to the Sun, 241 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:31,000 the object displayed not one, but seven, maybe even more 242 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:33,840 distinct jets of material shooting out from it. 243 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,399 Speaker 1: And the crucial part isn't just that there were jets, 244 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:37,879 but the energy they had. 245 00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:41,919 Speaker 2: The energy was immense. These jets managed to penetrate over 246 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,320 a million kilometers through the solar wind. 247 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: And the solar wind is not a gentle breeze. It's 248 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:50,679 a powerful force, right, A stream of charged particles moving 249 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,639 at incredible speeds creating this constant pressure. 250 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,399 Speaker 2: It's a cosmic hurricane. So for anything to push back 251 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,639 against that, to penetrate it over a million kilometers requires 252 00:11:59,639 --> 00:12:01,679 a serious amount of velocity in momentum. 253 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,639 Speaker 1: Okay, so how does Lobe use that fact? 254 00:12:04,279 --> 00:12:07,279 Speaker 2: His method is to calculate the amount of mass you'd 255 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:09,960 need to achieve that, assuming three IADA lists is just 256 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,639 a standard natural comment. 257 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: Right, the dirty snowball model exactly. 258 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: So, the gas outflow from ice turning into gas sublimation 259 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:20,480 is actually relatively slow, maybe a kilometer per second, give 260 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:20,840 or take. 261 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: So with that slow ejection speed to get the momentum 262 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,960 you need to punch through a million kilometers of solar wind. 263 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 2: Lobe's calculation forces an enormous mass requirement. The jests must 264 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,639 have carried away about five billion tons of mass. 265 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,519 Speaker 1: Five billion to. 266 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: Five billion tons. 267 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:40,519 Speaker 1: That sounds like an impossible amount of material for a 268 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,519 small object to just shed. 269 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:46,279 Speaker 2: It is, unless it has a colossal surface area For 270 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,120 all that ice to sublimate. 271 00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: From which leads to his next point. 272 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: Precisely, to achieve that kind of mass loss through normal 273 00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:56,799 comet mechanics, the object would need a total surface area 274 00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:59,960 equivalent to a body that's at least twenty kilometers in diameter. 275 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: But the original estimates for three a atlists were much 276 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,320 smaller than. 277 00:13:03,159 --> 00:13:07,159 Speaker 2: That, much smaller. So this leads the standard natural hypothesis 278 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,279 with a major problem. The only way you can satisfy 279 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,159 that five billion ton mass loss is if the object broke. 280 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: Up, If fragmented, it had. 281 00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: To have shattered into many, many smaller pieces, and the 282 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,799 combined surface area of all those pieces adds up to 283 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:22,200 that twenty kilometer minimum. 284 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: But that seems like a huge constraint. I mean, if 285 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,639 three iolis had shattered to that degree, wouldn't our telescopes 286 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,759 have already seen a huge, wide debris cloud. 287 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,279 Speaker 2: That's the key skeptical question, and that is where Lobe 288 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,080 offers the technological alternative. Okay, what if those jets are 289 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,600 not standard slow out gassing from ice? What if they're 290 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,759 highly efficient technological thrusters? 291 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: All right, so unpack the physics of that for us. 292 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,279 How does calling it a thruster solve that? Five billion 293 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:50,399 ton paradox. 294 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: It all comes down to the relationship between mass and velocity. 295 00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:58,840 In the momentum equation, momentum is mass times velocity. So 296 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,600 if you can achieve a much much higher velocity for 297 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:04,519 the stuff you're rejecting, say ten or even one hundred 298 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,759 times faster than natural sublimation, which is easily achievable with 299 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,960 modern propulsion technology. 300 00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,039 Speaker 1: And you need far far less mass to create the 301 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,320 same amount of push. 302 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,039 Speaker 2: Exactly the same penetrating thrust and momentum, you're just being 303 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,480 way more efficient with your fuel. 304 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: So the mass required for that fuel suddenly drops from 305 00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:23,399 five billion tons of rock and ice. 306 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: To what Lobe suggests could be just a small fraction 307 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,639 of the spacecraft's total mass. 308 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: Which means the object can be much smaller, much denser, 309 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,960 and it can stay in one piece. It doesn't have 310 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000 to break up at all. 311 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: It completely resolves the paradox. If the object stays whole, 312 00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:41,200 then the massive thrust we're observing must come from efficient 313 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,759 high speed propulsion, and that is, by its nature technological. 314 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,399 Speaker 1: So it leaves us with this stark choice. It's either 315 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,159 a pile of shattered rock or it's an intact steered craft. 316 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,679 Speaker 2: A binary choice. 317 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,559 Speaker 1: Man, it really makes that December nineteenth day feel like 318 00:14:58,639 --> 00:15:01,639 some kind of cosmic reveal. Part, are we looking at 319 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:05,399 a giant pile of space rubble or one solid object 320 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,679 demonstrating propulsion? 321 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,799 Speaker 2: It's exactly that, and the physical evidence of the jets 322 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:13,039 is only one part of Lobe's argument. He also focuses 323 00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:14,960 very heavily on the object's trajectory. 324 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: Right. He argues that its path is just statistically too 325 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,679 perfect to be a random it suggests intent. 326 00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: This is where the statistics start to feel, honestly a 327 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,759 little unsettling. 328 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:26,639 Speaker 1: So what are the odds we're dealing with? A path 329 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:27,639 that looks deliberate? 330 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,159 Speaker 2: Low points out two very specific astronomical oddities in its trajectory. First, 331 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,799 the object's path is aligned with the plane of the planets, 332 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,399 what astronomers call the ecliptic plane. 333 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: So it's flying flat on the same plane as Earth, Mars, Jupiter, 334 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:41,960 et cetera. 335 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:44,759 Speaker 2: To within the deviation of only five degrees. Now, you 336 00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:47,039 have to think about the massive three dimensional volume of 337 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,159 space an interstellar object could arive from. It could come 338 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:52,559 from above below any random angle. 339 00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:55,879 Speaker 1: So the probability of a random object just happening to 340 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,679 come in and align itself that closely with the flat 341 00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:02,080 disc of our panetary orbits must be incredibly low. 342 00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: It is low. Have calculated the likelihood of that specific 343 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,559 alignment happening by chance as one in five hundred. 344 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: One in five hundred, Okay, already improbable. 345 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: But then you layer the second factor on top of that, 346 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:14,600 the timing. 347 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: The timing of its flybys. 348 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: Yes, the timing of its arrival is, in his words, 349 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:22,480 perfect to pass close to several key planets in our 350 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,159 solar system, which ones Mars, Venus and Jupiter. So this 351 00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:29,120 isn't just a random path through space. It's a series 352 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:33,279 of opportune flybys that maximizes the potential for observation. 353 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: And he calculated the odds of that too, he did. 354 00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:39,639 Speaker 2: He puts the likelihood of that specific advantageous timing occurring 355 00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:41,679 by random chance is one in twenty thousand. 356 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:44,559 Speaker 1: Okay, stop right there, a one in five hundred chance 357 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,679 of its alignment combine with a one in twenty thousand 358 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,240 chance of its timing the odds multiplied right that that 359 00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:55,039 feels like it moves beyond statistical improbability and into the 360 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,679 realm of well design, doesn't it. If someone were to 361 00:16:58,759 --> 00:17:02,240 design a reconnaissance path through our solar system. This is 362 00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:04,079 exactly the projectory they would pick. 363 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,559 Speaker 2: That is precisely the implication Lobe wants us to wrestle with. 364 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,960 A non random trajectory suggests one of two things. Either 365 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:15,160 it was deliberately placed on this path billions of years 366 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,519 ago just possible, I guess, or that it's currently being 367 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:21,359 steered to optimize its viewing angles as it passes through. 368 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,079 If you were a probe sent a monitor for life 369 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,400 in a new star system, you would naturally want to 370 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,640 graze past the most interesting planets, and this object is 371 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:30,720 set to do exactly that. 372 00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: It looks for all the world like a reconnaissance mission 373 00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:35,519 it does. This is where I find the whole debate 374 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,359 so thrilling, because Cocker's age theory explains the object's composition beautifully, 375 00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:43,680 but it does absolutely nothing to explain the trajectory. 376 00:17:43,759 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: And Lobe's technological theory explains the trajectory beautifully, but it 377 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,359 requires this massive leap of faith to assume intelligent design. 378 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,759 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate scientific tension. And Lobo didn't even stop there. 379 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,880 He introduced an updated, even more radical hypothesis. 380 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,079 Speaker 2: Based on new observational data. Yeah, he suggested that three 381 00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:05,039 Iets could be a nuclear powered alien spacecraft. 382 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: Nuclear powered Okay, where did that come from? 383 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 2: It comes from his analysis of data from the Hubble 384 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,480 space telescope. Load claims that the Hubble picture appears to 385 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,480 show the object emitting its own light. 386 00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:18,079 Speaker 1: Not just reflecting sunlight, which is what we'd expect from 387 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,880 a rock or a comet exactly. 388 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: If it's glowing on its own, that suggests an internal 389 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,000 power source. 390 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: And then there's this halo. He talks about, a glow 391 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,759 of scattered light that he says is in front of 392 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:32,000 the object, not trailing behind it like a normal comet tail. 393 00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 2: And that placement is incredibly important. The direction of a 394 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,720 tail tells you about the forces acting on the material. 395 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: Solar radiation pushes the dust away from the sun, creating 396 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,160 that trailing tail. 397 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,039 Speaker 2: Right, So, if this glow, this halo of light or 398 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,519 material is in front of the object, that requires a 399 00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:52,839 whole different explanation that goes beyond simple solar mechanics. 400 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: And did he analyze what the halo is made of? 401 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: He did. He analyzed the dust content and found that 402 00:18:58,519 --> 00:19:00,960 if it is dust, it's a minimal mount less than 403 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,079 a millimeter thick. Abladd from the surface over a period of. 404 00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: Six months, so we're not talking about a giant plume 405 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:09,079 of escaping gas and dirt. 406 00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 2: It's more like a veneer, right, and Lob's conclusion from 407 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,519 that is that this minimal amount of dust suggests dirt 408 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:18,799 on a solid surface, which is a far cry from 409 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,319 a traditional fluffy, ice rich comet nucleus. 410 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: So if it's a solid surface and it appears to 411 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,559 be glowing on its own. 412 00:19:25,599 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: That implies an onboard energy source, something powerful enough to 413 00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:32,880 generate light and potentially propel the object, which leads him 414 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,359 directly to the hypothesis of a nuclear power source. It's 415 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,759 the ultimate statement of technological independence. 416 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,079 Speaker 1: So whether you lean towards Kaku's ancient garbage collecting rock 417 00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:46,279 or Loeb's radical alien technology, there's one thing they both 418 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:47,599 immediately agreed. 419 00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:49,079 Speaker 2: On a major point of agreement, and. 420 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: That's the controversy surrounding the lack of public access to 421 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,759 some of the most critical data. 422 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we saw this rare joint outcry from both experts, 423 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,000 with Kaku and Loe both calling on NASA to release 424 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,000 its best imagery of the object. 425 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: And this specific imagery was taken on October second by 426 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,880 the high rise camera, which. 427 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: Is on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter or MRO. 428 00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: The MRO is orbiting Mars and its high rise camera 429 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,240 is one of the most powerful, highest resolution cameras that 430 00:20:16,319 --> 00:20:18,119 NASA has anywhere off of Earth. 431 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,279 Speaker 2: So getting a clean shot of three ils from the 432 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,480 MRO is fundamentally crucial because of its relative proximity and 433 00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:29,720 the level of detail it can capture. It could potentially 434 00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:33,079 resolve this whole fragmentation debate immediately. 435 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: But the data was withheld. 436 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 2: It was and the justification given, which was cited by 437 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,960 both Professor Loeb and Representative Anna Paulina Luna, was the 438 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,119 government shutdown at the time, and Loob. 439 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: I remember, was furious about this. He argued, it's just 440 00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:49,440 unacceptable for the politics of the moment, you know, the 441 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,480 internal machinery of Washington d C to sabotage the progress 442 00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:54,000 of science. 443 00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:57,839 Speaker 2: It's a total breakdown of scientific communication and frankly public trust. 444 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,559 And doctor Kakou, coming from his very different perspective, was 445 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:02,680 equally blunt about it. 446 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: What was his take. 447 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,599 Speaker 2: He's stressed that keeping secrets over what is essentially a 448 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:08,839 sheet of paper or you know, a hard drive full 449 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,920 of images is completely pointless. 450 00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:13,799 Speaker 1: Why hide the raw data, that's his question. 451 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,519 Speaker 2: It only fosters counter productive speculation among the public. I mean, 452 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:20,400 if the data shows it is just a boring rock, 453 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,039 release it and end the speculation. If it's something revolutionary, 454 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,079 the public absolutely deserves to know. 455 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:28,839 Speaker 1: He's right. The only real outcome of that kind of 456 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,799 secrecy is an increase in conspiracy theories exactly. And this 457 00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:35,119 brings us right to the issue of, you know, public 458 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,400 safety and potential panic. When you have two brilliant physicists 459 00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:43,440 openly arguing about a potential nuclear powered alien craft, the 460 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,559 public is naturally going to ask, are we in danger? 461 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: That is the most immediate, gut level concern, and this 462 00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:53,480 is where both experts thankfully unite to offer reassurance. 463 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: We need perspective on the sheer scale of space here. 464 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,319 Speaker 2: An immense amount of perspective. The object gets no closer 465 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,119 than one hundred sixty seven million miles away on December nineteenth. 466 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,039 Speaker 1: One hundred and sixty seven million miles. That is an enormous, 467 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,799 completely safe distance. 468 00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:12,799 Speaker 2: Doctor Kaku offered the most definitive reassurance. He said, the 469 00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:16,839 object is harmless, it's too far away, and we won't 470 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,480 be invaded. By aliens from a Hollywood movie set. 471 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: That's a good line to keep in mind when the 472 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,880 speculation starts to run wild online. 473 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,799 Speaker 2: It is, and Kako's critique of the speculation itself is 474 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,200 really important for scientific integrity. He warns that speculation has 475 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,079 to be quantified. 476 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: What does he mean by that? 477 00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: You can't just alarm the public without also stating your 478 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,920 level of confidence. The risk of crying wolf, of promoting 479 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,359 this frightening scenario that turns out to be just a 480 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,359 fragmented rock, is that it leads to a severe public backlash. 481 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:50,599 Speaker 1: People will eventually say, what we wasted all our emotional 482 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,000 and political energy on a false alarm, and. 483 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 2: That erodes public trust and science itself. It's a very 484 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,359 real danger. 485 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: And he did point out that Professor Lobe, to his credit, 486 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,519 was careful in the public discussion to state that the 487 00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:06,079 overall probability of his technological speculations being true are in 488 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,599 fact quite low. 489 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: Which is an essential scientific qualification. It's your job as 490 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,480 a scientist to explore the boundary conditions to check the 491 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,319 non zero probabilities, but you have to communicate the likelihood 492 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,160 of the core hypothesis with care. 493 00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:26,279 Speaker 1: It's the difference between exploring a possibility and asserting effect exactly. Now, 494 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:28,559 there's one more anomaly we have to address, because it 495 00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:32,240 was initially seen as a potential smoking gun for intelligent guidance. 496 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:33,839 Speaker 2: Ah, the speeding up concern. 497 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,319 Speaker 1: Right, Kaku himself had previously suggested that if three I 498 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,519 Atlas picked up extra energy as it whipped around the Sun, 499 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,160 if its speed increased beyond what gravity alone could explain, 500 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,200 that would be a very strong indicator of propulsion. 501 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 2: And there was some initial speculation that it did speed 502 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480 up just a little bit as it went around the Sun, 503 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,480 and yes, in a vacuum that sounds deeply concerning. It 504 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:57,160 suggests a push an impulse. 505 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: But Kaku immediately downplayed this here labeled it as not 506 00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:02,359 a smoking gun. 507 00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:03,839 Speaker 2: And this is where we have to dive a little 508 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,319 deeper into the messy reality of comets. Why is a 509 00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:11,480 slight acceleration after passing the Sun not definitive proof of 510 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:12,559 alien guidance? 511 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,279 Speaker 1: So what's the natural explanation? 512 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: It's because of the non gravitational forces that are exerted 513 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,319 by outgassing. If a natural comet has an uneven surface, 514 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,839 maybe one side is icier than the other and that 515 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,400 side happens to be facing. 516 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,079 Speaker 1: The sun, it sublimates faster, it. 517 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 2: Sublimates faster, and the resulting jet of gas acts like 518 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,119 a very subtle, completely natural thruster. It's the rocket principle, 519 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,240 but on a tiny chaotic scale. 520 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,799 Speaker 1: Ah So if a big piece of the comet breaks off, 521 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,799 or if a large pocket device on one side suddenly vents, 522 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,119 that momentary focus blast of gas can provide a small 523 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,440 push forward exactly. 524 00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: Kakuu emphasizes that these natural processes outgassing breaking off a 525 00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,079 piece can easily create a sudden, small spurt in velocity 526 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,119 without needing to invoke extraterrestrial engineering at all. 527 00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: It's an accepted, if complicated part of cometary physics. 528 00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: It is. For it to qualify as a technological smoking gun, 529 00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:09,720 the acceleration would need to be massive, sustained, and directed 530 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,559 in a way that defined the known physics of outgassing. 531 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: So, once again, even the most promising physical evidence for 532 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,599 propulsion can potentially be explained by the highly complex chaotic 533 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,359 behavior of an extremely old, unusual but natural object. The 534 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,680 tension continues, and that scientific tension has to resolve itself somehow. 535 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,920 The focal point for that resolution is December nineteenth. 536 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 2: That's the big day. It's the date of the closest approach, 537 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,160 and it's expected to be decisive because data will just 538 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,319 be flooding in from Rare from Hubble, from the web 539 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,440 Space telescope, and from hundreds of terrestrial observatories all across 540 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,160 the globe, all pointing at the same spot. 541 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,519 Speaker 1: And Professor Lobe he outlines too specific almost, I mean 542 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:54,480 they sound like they're from a Hollywood movie. These two 543 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,640 binary outcomes, he believes will settle the question by the holidays. 544 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,519 Speaker 2: So outcome number one is the conformation of the natural hypothesis. 545 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,759 How would that look if it disintegrates, if we see 546 00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:08,519 the pieces separating being pulled apart by the Sun's tidal 547 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,680 forces from its close pass, This would confirm that three 548 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,279 eyey to us was essentially a fragile, fragmented structure, a 549 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,119 rubble pile basically, that just broke. 550 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: Up the same way natural comets often. 551 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: Do exactly, and that would validate the need for that 552 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:25,839 massive twenty kilometer surface area Lobe calculated, and it would 553 00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:27,400 fully support the natural explanation. 554 00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so what's outcome number two. 555 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 2: Outcome number two is where the technological hypothesis remains viable. 556 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,119 This happens if it maintains its structural integrity. 557 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,079 Speaker 1: If it stays in one solid piece. 558 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 2: Yes, if it stays visually in one piece, and we 559 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,000 continue to see evidence of those very high speed penetrating 560 00:26:46,079 --> 00:26:49,519 jets without any sign of a massive debris cloud, then 561 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,680 what then, As Lope puts it, we must contemplate a 562 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:58,519 technological origin. Structural integrity plus high speed propulsion without fragmentation 563 00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:00,160 equals design at. 564 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: Sounds like he's setting up a definitive scientific test. It 565 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,319 either holds together or it falls apart. 566 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,839 Speaker 2: He seems quite confident that this close up data will 567 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,160 be enough. He said he would definitely know what the 568 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,279 nature of the object is by the holidays, which he 569 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,119 called a nice gift for all of us, regardless of 570 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:15,640 the outcome. 571 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,759 Speaker 1: Now, for Ccku, the bar for definitive nail it to 572 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:21,720 the wall proof of intelligent life is much much higher 573 00:27:21,759 --> 00:27:23,160 than just seeing if it stays in one. 574 00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: Piece, so much higher. He requires an undeniable sign of consciousness. 575 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 576 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 2: Kaku's point is that observing strange physics, even a glowing 577 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,799 intact object with super efficient thrusters, is still subject to 578 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:41,440 potentially undiscovered natural laws. There could be some physics we 579 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,400 just don't know about yet. 580 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: So the ultimate scientific smoking gun, short of, you know, 581 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,640 an alien landing on the. 582 00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: White House lawn, would be communication. 583 00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: Communication, because that implies intentionality and a shared consciousness. 584 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 2: Yes, Kaku argues, we'd need to see some kind of 585 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,000 Morse code or recognizable mathemat pattern like prime numbers. Ye, 586 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,079 a shared language that we would instantly understand, not just 587 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,480 random static or unexplained energy spikes. 588 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: That kind of intelligence signal would transcend physics and be 589 00:28:10,519 --> 00:28:13,400 undeniable proof of both consciousness and technology. 590 00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: And that's the core difference of their approaches, isn't it. 591 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:19,200 Load is looking for physics that defies our current understanding 592 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,079 of nature. 593 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: While Kakhu is looking for proof of language that confirms intelligence. 594 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,799 Speaker 2: And no matter what we learn on December nineteenth, the 595 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,599 mission to monitor this object is not going to end. 596 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,000 It will continue its journey out of our inter solar system. 597 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,160 And there are already future observation windows being planned. This 598 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,240 is the long game, This is the very long game. 599 00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:42,599 Speaker 1: Let's detail these future windows because they're pretty incredible. The 600 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,200 first one is scheduled for October third, twenty twenty five, and. 601 00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:48,079 Speaker 2: This is where we see that focus come back to 602 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:51,720 the high rise camera on the MRO, the orbiter near Mars. 603 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,599 Speaker 1: So what's the plan at. 604 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: That point in its trajectory? Three il lasts will be 605 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,920 near Mars Again, NASA plans to use the mro's powerful 606 00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,400 camera to look at it when it's about twenty nine 607 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,160 million kilometers away from the planet. 608 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: And even at that distance twenty nine million kilometers, the 609 00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:10,079 MRO can still get extremely high resolution data. 610 00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,839 Speaker 2: That's the hope. They expect to achieve a thirty kilometer 611 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,519 pixel resolution on the nucleus. 612 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: Thirty kilometers per pixel. Now, that might sound blurry to us, 613 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,359 but for an object so small and so far away, 614 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,359 that level of detail is a massive leap forward. 615 00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:27,319 Speaker 2: It is. It will allow astronomers to get a much 616 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,319 better sense of the object's overall shape, maybe even some 617 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,119 surface features, and critically confirm once and for all if 618 00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:35,920 it's still a single solid piece. 619 00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:40,759 Speaker 1: If that thirty kilometer resolution image comes back showing a smooth, 620 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:45,319 unnaturally geometric shape, I think the technological debate gets a 621 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,599 massive boost. 622 00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:49,359 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then there's a second major window even further 623 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,920 out near Jupiter. Schedule from March sixteenth, twenty twenty six 624 00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:54,039 and I found. 625 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:57,359 Speaker 1: This detail fascinating because it really highlights the collaboration happening 626 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,960 between scientists and policymakers. This plan came directly from conversations 627 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,160 between Professor Lobe and Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna. 628 00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: That's right. She wrote a formal letter to NASA encouraging 629 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,200 them to use the junoprobe, which is currently orbiting Jupiter, 630 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:14,799 to observe three Iatalus when it gets near that planet. 631 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,119 Speaker 1: Which just shows that the potential significance of this object 632 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,799 has gone beyond the lab. That's entered the political realm, 633 00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:24,039 with Congress actively trying to marshal our existing space resources 634 00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:25,200 to get more data. 635 00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: All of this long term planning, all this intense scrutiny, 636 00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:32,200 it leads us directly to the policy implications. If we 637 00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:35,400 accept even the non zero chance that this is a visitor, 638 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,680 how should we as a planet respond. 639 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,359 Speaker 1: This is maybe Lobe's most profound contribution to the whole discussion. 640 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,359 Speaker 2: I think, so he stresses this urgent need for an 641 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,599 international organization, a formal body to be established right now 642 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,079 before we have definitive proof. 643 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,119 Speaker 1: And what would this body do? 644 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: It would be tasked with deciding how humanity should respond. 645 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,519 To such a visitor entering our as he calls it, backyard. 646 00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,359 Speaker 1: That is a massive undertaking. I mean, we're talking about 647 00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:05,960 preparing a diplomatic or maybe even a security response to 648 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,319 an entity whose intent is completely unknown, And that. 649 00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: Is the core of his argument. We don't know the intent. 650 00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,119 Is it peaceful, is it just monitoring? Is it preparatory 651 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,680 for a later visit? We have no idea. 652 00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:19,279 Speaker 1: So he's saying that waiting for definitive proof, a signal 653 00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:20,160 a landing is too. 654 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: Late, far too late. He argues, a coordinated, non panicked, 655 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:29,640 pre agreed global response plan is essential to prevent chaos 656 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,720 and ensure that humanity for once speaks with a single 657 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:36,880 voice when confronted with non terrestrial technology. 658 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: That really moves the conversation from abstract physics into geopolitical reality. 659 00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:45,480 We're discussing international security protocols for an object that might 660 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,400 be seven billion years old. 661 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:50,839 Speaker 2: We've spent a lot of time focused on these unknowns 662 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,160 coming from deep space, these huge cosmic questions, But the 663 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,240 interviews with doctor Kaku also brought up some immediate man 664 00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:00,960 made threats right here on Earth that deserve an equally 665 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,000 critical deep dive. 666 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: And the transition here is actually smoother than you might think, 667 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,200 because it relates directly back to that issue of data 668 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,759 and secrecy and public trust we were just talking about 669 00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:10,799 with the MRO images. 670 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: That's a great point. The frustration over NASA with holding 671 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,079 a crucial image connects directly to our modern crisis of 672 00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:18,240 fabricated information. 673 00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: And Kaku introduced the threat he has personal frustrating experience 674 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,240 with the deep fake revolution. 675 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,839 Speaker 2: He seemed genuinely concerned. He was warning the public that 676 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,359 the ease with which documents and more importantly, videos can 677 00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:34,640 now be forged is rapidly eroding our ability to trust 678 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,440 what we see. 679 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: And hear, and he is a victim of this himself. 680 00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: He is. He cited his own ongoing personal battle against 681 00:32:41,079 --> 00:32:44,759 sophisticated deep fakes that are impersonating him on multiple networks, 682 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,559 making it look like he's talking nonsense or endorsing strange products. 683 00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:51,279 Speaker 1: It's a really chilling parallel, isn't it. On one hand, 684 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,039 you have an official agency, NASA with holding real data. 685 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,240 On the other, you have malicious actors creating highly convincing 686 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,240 fake data. 687 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: And if a world renowned physicist can be successfully impersonated 688 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,200 on a public network talking about complex topics with total credibility, 689 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,240 how's the average person supposed to verify anything? 690 00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:15,119 Speaker 1: It creates this foundational crisis of reality. The vacuum caused 691 00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,839 by secrecy gets filled by conspiracy. 692 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:21,559 Speaker 2: Theories, and the entire information landscape gets flooded with fabricated content. 693 00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:25,440 Both of those things undermine legitimate scientific inquiry. They make 694 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,720 the search for truth, whether it's about three I atlas 695 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,519 or the integrity of an election, exconentially harder. 696 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: But Kaku worn that while deep fakes are the crisis 697 00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:37,880 of today, there's an even larger, more profound and existential 698 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,480 technological risk looming. He calls it the real risk going. 699 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 2: Forward, the quantum revolution. 700 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: The quantum revolution. This is a threat that just transcends politics, 701 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,119 borders even deep fake technology. He's talking about quantum computers 702 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,640 and their ability to utterly dismantle our current global security architecture. 703 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: And we really need to understand the fundamental differference here. 704 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,799 Speaker 1: Okay, so explain the difference between a classical digital computer 705 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,960 and a quantum computer. Cocker simplifies it nicely by talking 706 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,199 about zeros and ones. 707 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 2: Right, your computer, your phone, everything you're using right now 708 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,679 runs on bits binary digits. A bit can be a zero, 709 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,920 or it can be a one. That's it. It's discrete 710 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,440 defined logic. A quantum computer uses quibbits and quibbits harness 711 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,360 the bizarre properties of quantum mechanics, specifically superposition and entanglement. 712 00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: Superposition means the quibit can be both a zero and 713 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,800 a one at the same time, right exactly. 714 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,519 Speaker 2: It exists in an infinite continuum of values between zero 715 00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:38,800 and one, all at the same time. This means that 716 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,639 instead of searching possibilities one by one, like going down 717 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,280 a massive list, a quantum computer can explore that entire 718 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,239 infinite possibility space simultaneously, and that. 719 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: Allows it to solve certain types of problems that are 720 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,000 basically impossible for classical computers. 721 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: And what is the most significant and frankly terrifying problem 722 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,599 that a quantum computer can solve almost instantly? 723 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: Breaking encryption? 724 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,679 Speaker 2: Breaking encryption Taku's warning is simple. A quantum computer will 725 00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:08,840 be able to break into any known digital code that 726 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,119 includes the sophisticated encryption that secures our banks, our communications, 727 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,320 our nuclear codes, all of our critical infrastructure. 728 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,599 Speaker 1: Every system of digital security we have relies on mathematical 729 00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:22,800 problems that are just too complex for normal computers to solve. 730 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 2: Quickly, and quantum computers just bypass that complexity completely. 731 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,679 Speaker 1: It's a foundational vulnerability. Everything we've built digitally is based 732 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,800 on those zeros and ones, which suddenly become meaningless to 733 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,679 a quantum system that computes in an infinite realm. 734 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,639 Speaker 2: And this is in some distant sci fi future either. 735 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,199 Kaku gave a very specific timeline for this risk. 736 00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: He said, five ten or fifteen years from. 737 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 2: Now, five ten or fifteen years. It's not science fiction anymore. 738 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,920 That's why intelligence agencies like the CIA and the FBI 739 00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:55,639 are on extremely high alert. They know that a breakthrough 740 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,960 in quantum computing represents a total overhaul of global. 741 00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Security and the ability of a rival nation to possess 742 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,719 that capability first. 743 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: It's the ultimate global security threat. 744 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,599 Speaker 1: It is truly mind boggling to end our deep dive. 745 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,639 By placing the uncertainty of a seven billion year old 746 00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,639 commet against the certainty of a ten year countdown to 747 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,119 global digital code breaking, it forces you to reevaluate what 748 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:21,639 you even consider a threat. 749 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,079 Speaker 2: It does one is cosmic and hypothetical, the other is 750 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:28,079 technological and imminent. But the common thread really is the 751 00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:30,920 need for a sophisticated intelligence and policy response. 752 00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: Whether it's preparing for a non random celestial visitor or 753 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,599 preparing for the collapse of global encryption. 754 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,679 Speaker 2: The message is that we have to start planning for 755 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,159 the exponential unknowns, not just the linear projections of what 756 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:42,760 we already know. 757 00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: Well. This has been an extraordinarily deep dive into three 758 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,360 iatless three iatless. We've navigated this intense intellectual tension. 759 00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:55,079 Speaker 2: On one side doctor cuck Who's scientifically grounded explanation that 760 00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:58,559 all its weirdness is just the result of immense age. 761 00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:02,599 Speaker 1: And on the other Professor Love's technological hypothesis that its 762 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,400 jets and its statistically perfect trajectory point directly to a steered, 763 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,840 maybe even nuclear powered craft. 764 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: We've seen how the exact same data, the off scale 765 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,440 nickel content, the jet calculations that one in twenty thousand 766 00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:20,559 improbability can lead these brilliant experts to radically different conclusions 767 00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:21,760 about the nature of reality. 768 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,079 Speaker 1: And we are heading toward a resolution with that December 769 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,159 nineteenth closest approach, offering the data to finally settle the 770 00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,760 fragmentation versus technological propulsion debate. 771 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,599 Speaker 2: We've also explored the necessity of transparency, the absurdity of 772 00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:37,599 the MRO image secrecy, and that dangerous parallel between controlling 773 00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:40,960 ascronomical information and the rise of man made threats like 774 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,280 deep fakes, and the looming quantum crisis. 775 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: At its heart, the core question we keep returning to, 776 00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:49,079 beyond just what three I list is, is really about 777 00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:52,800 our collective response. This object raises the possibility of an 778 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,000 encounter that would require rapid globally coordinated action. 779 00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 2: He really does. 780 00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: So our final ponderable for you, based on Professor Lobe's 781 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,639 urgent policy recommendation, is this, given the complexity and the 782 00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:08,280 non zero possibility of an interstellar visitor having unknown intent, 783 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,119 do you agree that we need a global, internationally recognized 784 00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:16,360 organization right now before we have definitive proof dedicated to 785 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,960 deciding humanity's response. 786 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,639 Speaker 2: Or should we wait for a clear signal, a piece 787 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:23,480 of technology, or a landing before we even start preparing 788 00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:26,760 a political or security response. Let us know what you think. 789 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,679 We'll be watching that December nineteenth data very closely, and 790 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,639 we'll be back soon with more deep dives into the 791 00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:34,519 topics that redefine our understanding of the universe.