WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:03.879 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekiana Show 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.160 doing a little uh timely one here. We're gonna be 3 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:14.199 releasing this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody, some 4 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:16.760 people would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode, 5 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:23.199 but no, this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the 6 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:28.079 coup in Chile, and uh, I want to have Thomas 7 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:33.200 on to give his opinion of what it was and 8 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:37.600 how it went down and how it benefited the right. 9 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.799 That sound good, I mean yeah, I mean we I 10 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:46.200 mean I mainly want to dismantle misconceptions as well as 11 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:53.359 out note confabulations about the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political, 12 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.920 and historical, because all these things play into the equation. 13 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:05.239 You know, I'm not just being a historical researcher who's 14 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:12.120 insane waiting his own fetishes for anthropological data into this discussion. 15 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.359 It really is significant in a way in the case 16 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.239 of Chile, in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular. 17 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:23.040 We're going to talk about what happened there and why 18 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.200 it became such a critical Cold War battle theater. And 19 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:27.840 that's the way to understand this. That's the way to 20 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.959 understand this that's the way to understand the totality of 21 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.439 what became Operation Condor. That's the way to understand the 22 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.599 situation in Argentina, which was a lot more murky and 23 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:42.319 conspiratorial than that at Chile. I mean that weren't the 24 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:48.599 discussion all onto itself, but particularly the the you know 25 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:55.319 what developed in Nicaragua and l Salvador and uh Granada 26 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:01.200 was key as well in the final phase of the 27 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:07.840 Cold War, and people they don't fully understand. At the time, 28 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:15.039 people generally did. It's interesting how they kind of tortured rationales. 29 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.319 People would resort to these Peter Arnett types, and even 30 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:25.159 Oliver Stone who made a pretty negative partisan movie about 31 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.039 you know, Central America. I think it was actually called Salvador. 32 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:32.120 I don't know how these people could rationalize. I mean, 33 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:33.840 I know how they did superficially, I mean I was 34 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.039 alive during the time, but how they could sort of 35 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:40.759 redact in their own mind the fact that Central and 36 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:45.680 South America, you know, maybe we refer to as Latin 37 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:52.400 America in total, was an active battle space in the 38 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:54.800 final phase of the Cold War, and it was a 39 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:58.639 truly critical battle space because not just in terms of 40 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:02.639 American credibility VI theam Unro doctrine and things. But that 41 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:07.159 would have rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw Packed was 42 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:13.560 always disadvantaged by owing the you know, facts of geography 43 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:20.080 and the fact that in that epoch the way four 44 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:24.919 structures were, you know, owing to the technology the day 45 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:31.759 it conferred a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it 46 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:38.120 could strike you know, basically from you know, within critical 47 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.199 range decapitation range. Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms 48 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:51.000 a Soviet territory. But the and finally, and I'll bring 49 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:55.360 it back to the discussion at hand in more precise terms, 50 00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:03.680 and the daytad Era, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw 51 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:07.639 Pack and adjacent states, they were winning the Cold War. 52 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:13.280 It in military terms, it didn't matter that Warsaw Pack 53 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.519 was a basket case in terms of its internal situation. 54 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:22.040 It didn't matter that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know, 55 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:24.959 a crisis within the Kremline itself a leadership as you know, 56 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:31.120 it's kind of aged gerontocracy, like literally died off. You know. Uh, 57 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:41.160 America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, Uh, the 58 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:47.800 significance of that, but decoupling Beijing from warsaw packed but 59 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.120 that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously, 60 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:59.040 and that led to in turn, you know, the America 61 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:02.079 ended up backing the commun Rouge against the People's Army 62 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:06.360 of Vietnam, you know, because the Khmune Rouge were China's proxy. 63 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.519 So this prom so this three way proxy war developed, 64 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.680 you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were 65 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.560 victorious against Landol's forces, you know, between the Khmer Rouge 66 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.879 and the People's Army of Vietnam. You know, the United 67 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:21.839 the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the United 68 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.160 States and the People's at China were nominally backing the 69 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.560 bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam. 70 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.240 The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental 71 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:36.519 subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their Friendship 72 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.759 Pact as a hedge against China. America responded, you know, 73 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.639 by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and UH and 74 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.199 in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know, 75 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:56.079 and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the 76 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:02.519 kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union 77 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:04.879 at the time. You know that that's what caused them 78 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:07.199 to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about, 79 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:11.120 like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna 80 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.199 the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States, 81 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:21.839 and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought that 82 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:27.360 Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially going to the 83 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:29.720 loss of Iran. But also I mean that would you 84 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.199 know Afghanistans with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan, and Kazakhstan 85 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.040 was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean, 86 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:39.839 that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear command and control. 87 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:44.480 So I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent. 88 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.480 What ended it? I mean it was the invasion of 89 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:51.600 Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the 90 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:54.959 Communists run the move on every continent and goal is 91 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.480 another one, okay, And there was neither the political will 92 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.000 nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force 93 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:03.040 to enforce the Truman doctor and then come to the 94 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:09.920 direct aid of these you know, friendly states under siege 95 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:18.160 by Communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You 96 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.360 know that the draft had ended, and the revolution of 97 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:26.680 military affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented 98 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:31.120 yet in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems 99 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.439 and this command control technology like did exist, it just 100 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:39.040 hadn't been integrated into you know, force structures and being 101 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.839 in a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at 102 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:48.839 a map in uh nineteen seventy three, again in military terms, 103 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.600 the Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is 104 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.720 an oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there 105 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:00.399 was high hopes for it. You know, if used to 106 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.199 talk about Argentina like it was going to be the 107 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:06.839 United States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But 108 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:11.040 you know, despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries, 109 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:15.120 they're more European than they are like America or Canada. 110 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:23.319 You know, Chile became a pretty major regional military power 111 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.879 after what was called the War of the Pacific. This 112 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:34.399 took place in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four. Chile 113 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:39.159 fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and and 114 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.679 one this kind of like uh, you know, like like 115 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:49.240 like Prussian style like blitz Victory, okay, and acquired a 116 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.200 lot of territory and a lot of clout, but obviously 117 00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:00.399 again owing to AH its situation on the cone of 118 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:06.360 South America. I mean there's a strategic significance there regardless. 119 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:11.240 You know, it's not like the South Atlantic, you know, 120 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:15.320 and access to the South Atlantic and specifically the ability 121 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.799 to engage you know, the US fleet in the Atlantic 122 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:24.200 potentially you know, before it even you know, is able 123 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.279 to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western hemisphere potentially. 124 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.039 I mean, that was huge. But it's also you know, 125 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:40.039 there's a there, there's there's there's something to the idea 126 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:44.799 of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a fire that 127 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:51.360 catches or some kind of virulent backless if you'll forgive 128 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:54.919 the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true, and people 129 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:57.399 are accepting that more and more now. Not not because 130 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.000 they've taken on some kind of unutive view of commune 131 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.840 in history or something, and not even that that's that's 132 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.799 that's not even really in the contemplation. And most of 133 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.840 these kind of like neuroscience types and you know, kind 134 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.720 of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk about 135 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.480 the way like memes become truly viral and like information 136 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.279 it becomes viral. You know, that's kind of a narrow 137 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:21.159 that's kind of a whittled down version of what the 138 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:28.000 phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum uh 139 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.440 is something that is a real thing. You know, it's 140 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.679 the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for racial 141 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:44.840 and cultural differences and you know, really uh really uh 142 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:51.519 controlling for all variables suggesting true diversity. You know this 143 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:55.519 this can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know, 144 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:57.600 like as I've talked about with respect to Vietnam, and 145 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.279 you know previously one of the ways that parts with 146 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:04.600 people like Meersheimer, but this idea that you have this 147 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.200 kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind of 148 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.480 cloudset which on steroidsvie of warfare like well, you know, 149 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.960 credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so long as 150 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:15.559 you have you know, strategic forces and being to devastate 151 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.519 your enemy. And there was no quote you know, key, 152 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:23.080 there there's no essential interest in Vietnam. It didn't matter, 153 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.399 you know, in the twentieth century, like wars weren't fought, 154 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:29.039 you know, to control you know, access to rubber plantations, 155 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.039 you know, or like you know, fur trade routes. Like 156 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.159 Vietnam became World War three by proxy because like that's 157 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:37.080 where the battle lines were drawn. Like that's where the 158 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:42.440 Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's that's 159 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.000 where Washington had to had to draw the line and respond. 160 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:47.639 You know, it didn't matter that it was in Sou 161 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.440 East Asia and there's not some quote key interests there 162 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:55.600 according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy. So 163 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.440 in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile, I 164 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.879 mean there wasn't there wasn't there is beginning. If there wasn't, 165 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.000 it didn't matter. You know, Uh, a communist revolution there 166 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.440 would have, uh would have developed tremendous momentum that had 167 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:17.159 profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even beyond 168 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.279 you know, like the South American continent and into you know, 169 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.440 Central and uh in North America. Even so, I don't 170 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.840 think to keep in mind, now, what what was the 171 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.840 situation in Chile generally, Like because this is important, it 172 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:37.679 relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself and 173 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:42.200 why they were such a test case and staunch resistance 174 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.519 to communism and taking a cultural anthropologist. They used to 175 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.559 write quite a bit about this, you know, why why 176 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.480 some of these in their mind and this is a 177 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.240 superficial view of my point, like why some of these 178 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.000 Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain, 179 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:09.399 but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from 180 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:13.480 those cultural malouse they're not. These people don't represent a 181 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:15.519 martial race in the way we think of like the 182 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.399 Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like 183 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:23.559 military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh, 184 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.960 whether it's the coute is it? You know the quote 185 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.000 of Adalgo kind of like we're large, is it? You 186 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.360 know that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism. 187 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.279 I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually 188 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.320 quite fascinating, you know. But the you see, this is 189 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:42.559 some degree in France too, but in the Iberian cultures 190 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:47.279 it's more pronounced. But the military heads had an outsized 191 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:49.279 role in Chile, you know, like it did in Spain, 192 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:51.519 like it didn't Portugal, like it does in Italy or 193 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.440 it didn't Italy. Okay, this is a fact. There was 194 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.799 a there was a culture into itself. Okay, Now there 195 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.799 is a Chile. As I just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography. 196 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.159 It's always successful potential encirclement by rival states in the 197 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:12.720 north and to the east. So it's institutional orientation of 198 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:16.039 its armed forces was always on the possibility of fighting 199 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.360 a multi front war. Now who executive does that sound like? 200 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.279 That sounds exactly like the Prussians and what gave rise 201 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:27.000 to the staff system, which you know, ultimately every modern 202 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:33.159 army imitates. But there was going to this fact even 203 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:37.000 before the Chilean military modernized, you know, in the in 204 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:42.080 the wake of you know, the the Great War and 205 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:46.759 what have you. There's always certain there there's always an 206 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.480 understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean army, in particularly 207 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.399 the army had to be built around a kind of 208 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.120 cadre structure, you know, where some version of mission oriented 209 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.840 tactics that had to be cultivated. You know, they're like, 210 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.080 you know, anybody in a leadership role from like NCO 211 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.440 upward would have to exhibit you know, a superior training 212 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.440 efficiency motivation. You know, basically man for man be better 213 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:13.799 than the enemy, okay, because again Chile was was basically 214 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.240 always facing a kind of like on Schleief and quagmire, 215 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:23.679 if that makes any sense. And there's certain anthropological factors too, 216 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:26.440 of a of a more kind of cultural nature, okay, 217 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:31.080 Like the the Chilean army was very, very very Catholic. 218 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:39.799 The background of Pinochet himself as well as Admiral Marino 219 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:47.720 Jose Todebo Merino Castro, they were the two most important 220 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:51.320 figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front, but this 221 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:56.559 was you know, rule by a military committee basically, and 222 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:03.519 uh not, Marino was a It was kind of the 223 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.720 brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was a 224 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.480 very intelligent man, as we'll see, but Admirbles tend to 225 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:14.639 be like a cut above in terms of intellectual capabilities 226 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:22.720 and organizational skills and things. But they both these men 227 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.360 kind of came to define. They were both like exemplars 228 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.000 of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so, 229 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:35.639 and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in 230 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:41.399 the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet went 231 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:43.799 into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter, 232 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.000 like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us, 233 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.720 you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions 234 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.919 and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing 235 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.440 the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of 236 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:01.039 all of all of the entire choir, you know, where 237 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:05.880 we're literally like Christian warriors, you know. And pinisiate believe 238 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:07.759 that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't 239 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.119 just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you 240 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.839 know shore up. Uh. His is his public image or something, 241 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:17.759 you know, And even even if he'd wanted to like, 242 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:20.039 that's not the way he'd go about it. I mean, 243 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.319 even even then when there was you know, kind of 244 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.119 a Catholic moment owing to the only only a certain 245 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:29.119 certain things related to the Cold War and in the 246 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.640 situation in Northern Ireland and other stuff. But in the 247 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:38.920 event after World War Two, obviously people you know think 248 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.279 about they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these 249 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:51.640 Latin American states you know, taking up with America in 250 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.000 uh for you know, for out a strategic convenience as 251 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:57.400 well as going to the you know kind of the 252 00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:00.519 kind of pentagons like outsized influent. It's only to them 253 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.319 on Roe doctrine and other things, and it's kind of 254 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:07.160 like historical variables, you know, plus the fact that direct 255 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.960 capital subsidies were always coveted, you know, by these countries. 256 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.160 You know, even though these states weren't ruined by World 257 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.720 War Two, they were like goun touched, you know, there 258 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:19.079 was they still there was still short on development and 259 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:25.240 perpetually short on capital. But there was something superficial about 260 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:29.119 this on the side of uh, these states who were 261 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:35.400 coveting American patronage, like US military influence never really took 262 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:47.559 in Latin America. You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras, 263 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.519 El Salvador, all these all these states where you know 264 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.880 that America, all these states that basically America set up 265 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.240 things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military 266 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:01.559 and independence with like US military influence never overwhelmed the 267 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.039 kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know, 268 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:09.839 there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout 269 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.200 you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially, 270 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.160 but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know 271 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.960 what we're talking about like the efforts of you know, 272 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.480 the American successive American regimes to kind of you know 273 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.160 cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American 274 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:36.160 you know, like military type regimes it uh and the 275 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:42.119 you know, the and even uh even in terms of 276 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:46.559 professional development and things like all modern armies need to 277 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:49.839 be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know, 278 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:59.640 relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that 279 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.279 very much like like a very like in Chile as 280 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:11.000 well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent 281 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.240 class within the army developed, but beyond that, the kind 282 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.240 of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional culture 283 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.640 of America like didn't really take there, you know, Like 284 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:27.160 now now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile there's 285 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.880 a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from immigrant 286 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.240 backgrounds now against a Chile. Those immigrants were German, they 287 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.160 were English, they were Italian, they were French, they were Syrian, 288 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.680 they were Croatian. That's why when you look at like 289 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:46.720 a roster of of the Chilean officer corps, like first 290 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.039 of all, it's a bunch of like white and kind 291 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.720 of like Arab or like you know, Italian looking guys. 292 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.200 And they've got like European surnames, you know, so you've 293 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.759 you've quite literally got this kind of European and europe 294 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:02.680 and europe adjacent officer or in a country that's you know, 295 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.400 frankly majority mixed race, you know. So it's you're talking 296 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:09.720 about like literally like a culture within it, within a 297 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:12.839 broader culture, you know, not just of an institutional sort, 298 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.920 but of you know, an actual you know, like like 299 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:22.519 like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sort, rather like categorically like, uh, 300 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.279 there were two German speaking Lutherans on h On uh 301 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:31.400 in the junta. It was uh Fernando Matthai uh, the 302 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.519 Air force commander and Rodolpho Strange, who was the chief 303 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:39.359 and National police something there you go. And uh, A 304 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:42.680 lot of these immigrant families, if they weren't moneyed, you know, 305 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:46.119 like they they encouraged their sons to become military officers 306 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.799 because that was really the way, that was the only 307 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.039 way to get clout if you weren't part of the 308 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.119 national majority, you know. The Uh. Now, of course, the 309 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:02.680 Marxist view, which has faded somewhat obviously it's the cold war. 310 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.960 But it's kind of like this, it's kind of like 311 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.160 this cockroach that won't die. It just like emerges again 312 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:13.920 and again and and it doesn't help that like Howard 313 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.319 is in it kind of as like new life now 314 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.920 in US academia. But most scholars, even most military sociologists, 315 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:23.759 they're tainted some of this idea that like, you know, 316 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.960 look like South American soldiers, like you know, from the 317 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:31.000 officer corps on down, you know, to the end level 318 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.640 of n c o s. They just represented there. They 319 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.279 were basically like mercenaries who like represent the interests of 320 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.599 global capitalism, like backed up by the Pentagon, you know, 321 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:41.480 and they and they were like basically like the security 322 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.759 force that techno creits and and uh and and and 323 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.279 you know and in factory owners you know, and you know, 324 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.559 they're they're they're raised on detros, destroyed left wing politics. 325 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.599 You don't empower these techno creats who can facilitate, you know, 326 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.039 the the assimilation of these countries like into the globalist structure, 327 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.039 like that doesn't really make any sense, okay, And like 328 00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.319 it doesn't in the case like a real lack of 329 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.319 understanding of kind of human motivations and what attracts people 330 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.160 to you know, kind of the institutional trappings of like 331 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.400 heritage and ritual and stuff like nobody a bunch of 332 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.480 a bunch of salvad orient National police types and a 333 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.680 bunch of Chilean officers weren't just like pretending to be 334 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.640 Catholic because they're like they were worried about their public image, 335 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.960 you know, and they weren't. They weren't goose stepping around 336 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.880 the parade deck because they thought that that would make people. 337 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.079 They thought that they thought that that would like help 338 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.759 their image. Okay, I mean like it's it's not you know, 339 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:38.519 and plus the kind of stuff that you know, as 340 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:42.440 we'll see, you know, guys like Pinochet, you know these 341 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:46.640 This was not a situation like with Zelenski, where uh 342 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.480 you know, some sort of crist I mean, you couldn't 343 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:51.359 really have a Zelensky situation in the Cold War. But 344 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:54.759 my point is not it's not like it's not like Pinochet. 345 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:56.920 It was like pocketing a bunch of money and him 346 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.920 in his general as well, getting rich and picking up 347 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.519 teenage mistresses and like ripping around in Mercedes and in 348 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:09.200 the streets of uh, you know, Santiago or whatever, you know, it. 349 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.079 These guys lived almost some anastic life, you know, like 350 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.559 they they didn't they didn't live in poverty, but they 351 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.559 you know, they did they didn't. They didn't have me 352 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:23.440 they didn't have means, you know, like even uh like 353 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.440 Pinochet prior to prior to the junta and even he 354 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.720 he basically like lived like a pauper or it didn't 355 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:35.200 really own anything, you know, something this idea that this 356 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:37.920 idea that you know, oh well, all these all these 357 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.000 kinds of weird I mean not weird in a punitive way, 358 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.680 but all these unusual let me let let's let's let's 359 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.319 employ that the scriptor this kind of like unusual features 360 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.759 a Latin American military life, that somehow these were just 361 00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.279 like super structural trappings, you know, that kind of like 362 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.920 hid what amount to do a literally mercenary ethos like 363 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:03.559 that's this is like nonsense. Now what uh what was 364 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:05.880 we we? You know, we we got into the fact 365 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:11.599 that America didn't really put a lasting stamp on the 366 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.160 on the Latin American military culture generally and specifically Chilean 367 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:23.319 military life. But what did well after the uh, after 368 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:25.640 the War the Pacific, you know, which we talked about 369 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.279 a minute ago, which ended in eighteen eighty four. The 370 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:35.240 president uh Do Mingo Santa Maria. He realized that the 371 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:37.920 army needed to modernize and reoranize itself in the model 372 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.880 of a European army. They basically out fought Peru and Bolivia, 373 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.680 you know, but it uh they you know, the world 374 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.799 was changing and he and the army was still low 375 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:50.480 tech like basically with carry the day was again like 376 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.720 a very game officer corps, you know, that was and 377 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:59.039 cod evn CIOs the rint of missionary and tactics and frankly, 378 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.039 you know, just a lot of a lot of a 379 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.119 lot of men who are very tough and very hungry 380 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.920 for prestige and uh and to serve the fatherland. But 381 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.920 what uh, what what the Chilean has decided on They 382 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:18.160 fixed their sites in Germany, who they viewed as uh, 383 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.200 you know, kind of like the zenith of of of 384 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.920 a military prowess, you know. And and then that's kind 385 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.480 of when German cloud was at it was added zenith. 386 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:36.359 I would say, okay, the uh, the Chilean regime, it 387 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.480 was it was already familiar with Germans as a people, 388 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:43.160 like in the south of the country. Basically the German 389 00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:47.759 colonization down there, like it it led to tremendous capital development, 390 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.440 you know, and the uh, there's basically a sense of like, well, 391 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.200 what can't these people do, you know, like it, uh, 392 00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.559 we we want to cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway, 393 00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.720 because you know, they're like we basically like we need 394 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.160 these people. You know. It's like a shot in the 395 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.000 arm of our the entire paradigm of national development. You know. 396 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:14.240 The embassy in Berlin, the Chilean embassy in Berlin was 397 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:18.200 in the charge of a guy named Guermo Mata. He 398 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:23.279 contacted the German military directly. He apparently had some kind 399 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.839 of good rapport with Marshall von Molt, you know, who 400 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:33.519 was uh like a heavy heavy personage and he uh 401 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.680