Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekiana Show
Speaker 1: doing a little uh timely one here. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: releasing this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody, some
Speaker 1: people would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode,
Speaker 1: but no, this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the
Speaker 1: coup in Chile, and uh, I want to have Thomas
Speaker 1: on to give his opinion of what it was and
Speaker 1: how it went down and how it benefited the right.
Speaker 2: That sound good, I mean yeah, I mean we I
Speaker 2: mean I mainly want to dismantle misconceptions as well as
Speaker 2: out note confabulations about the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political,
Speaker 2: and historical, because all these things play into the equation.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not just being a historical researcher who's
Speaker 2: insane waiting his own fetishes for anthropological data into this discussion.
Speaker 2: It really is significant in a way in the case
Speaker 2: of Chile, in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about what happened there and why
Speaker 2: it became such a critical Cold War battle theater. And
Speaker 2: that's the way to understand this. That's the way to
Speaker 2: understand this that's the way to understand the totality of
Speaker 2: what became Operation Condor. That's the way to understand the
Speaker 2: situation in Argentina, which was a lot more murky and
Speaker 2: conspiratorial than that at Chile. I mean that weren't the
Speaker 2: discussion all onto itself, but particularly the the you know
Speaker 2: what developed in Nicaragua and l Salvador and uh Granada
Speaker 2: was key as well in the final phase of the
Speaker 2: Cold War, and people they don't fully understand. At the time,
Speaker 2: people generally did. It's interesting how they kind of tortured rationales.
Speaker 2: People would resort to these Peter Arnett types, and even
Speaker 2: Oliver Stone who made a pretty negative partisan movie about
Speaker 2: you know, Central America. I think it was actually called Salvador.
Speaker 2: I don't know how these people could rationalize. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know how they did superficially, I mean I was
Speaker 2: alive during the time, but how they could sort of
Speaker 2: redact in their own mind the fact that Central and
Speaker 2: South America, you know, maybe we refer to as Latin
Speaker 2: America in total, was an active battle space in the
Speaker 2: final phase of the Cold War, and it was a
Speaker 2: truly critical battle space because not just in terms of
Speaker 2: American credibility VI theam Unro doctrine and things. But that
Speaker 2: would have rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw Packed was
Speaker 2: always disadvantaged by owing the you know, facts of geography
Speaker 2: and the fact that in that epoch the way four
Speaker 2: structures were, you know, owing to the technology the day
Speaker 2: it conferred a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it
Speaker 2: could strike you know, basically from you know, within critical
Speaker 2: range decapitation range. Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms
Speaker 2: a Soviet territory. But the and finally, and I'll bring
Speaker 2: it back to the discussion at hand in more precise terms,
Speaker 2: and the daytad Era, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw
Speaker 2: Pack and adjacent states, they were winning the Cold War.
Speaker 2: It in military terms, it didn't matter that Warsaw Pack
Speaker 2: was a basket case in terms of its internal situation.
Speaker 2: It didn't matter that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: a crisis within the Kremline itself a leadership as you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of aged gerontocracy, like literally died off. You know. Uh,
Speaker 2: America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, Uh, the
Speaker 2: significance of that, but decoupling Beijing from warsaw packed but
Speaker 2: that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously,
Speaker 2: and that led to in turn, you know, the America
Speaker 2: ended up backing the commun Rouge against the People's Army
Speaker 2: of Vietnam, you know, because the Khmune Rouge were China's proxy.
Speaker 2: So this prom so this three way proxy war developed,
Speaker 2: you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were
Speaker 2: victorious against Landol's forces, you know, between the Khmer Rouge
Speaker 2: and the People's Army of Vietnam. You know, the United
Speaker 2: the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the United
Speaker 2: States and the People's at China were nominally backing the
Speaker 2: bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental
Speaker 2: subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their Friendship
Speaker 2: Pact as a hedge against China. America responded, you know,
Speaker 2: by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and UH and
Speaker 2: in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know,
Speaker 2: and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the
Speaker 2: kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union
Speaker 2: at the time. You know that that's what caused them
Speaker 2: to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about,
Speaker 2: like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna
Speaker 2: the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States,
Speaker 2: and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought that
Speaker 2: Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially going to the
Speaker 2: loss of Iran. But also I mean that would you
Speaker 2: know Afghanistans with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan, and Kazakhstan
Speaker 2: was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean,
Speaker 2: that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear command and control.
Speaker 2: So I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent.
Speaker 2: What ended it? I mean it was the invasion of
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the
Speaker 2: Communists run the move on every continent and goal is
Speaker 2: another one, okay, And there was neither the political will
Speaker 2: nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force
Speaker 2: to enforce the Truman doctor and then come to the
Speaker 2: direct aid of these you know, friendly states under siege
Speaker 2: by Communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You
Speaker 2: know that the draft had ended, and the revolution of
Speaker 2: military affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented
Speaker 2: yet in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems
Speaker 2: and this command control technology like did exist, it just
Speaker 2: hadn't been integrated into you know, force structures and being
Speaker 2: in a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at
Speaker 2: a map in uh nineteen seventy three, again in military terms,
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is
Speaker 2: an oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there
Speaker 2: was high hopes for it. You know, if used to
Speaker 2: talk about Argentina like it was going to be the
Speaker 2: United States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But
Speaker 2: you know, despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries,
Speaker 2: they're more European than they are like America or Canada.
Speaker 2: You know, Chile became a pretty major regional military power
Speaker 2: after what was called the War of the Pacific. This
Speaker 2: took place in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four. Chile
Speaker 2: fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and and
Speaker 2: one this kind of like uh, you know, like like
Speaker 2: like Prussian style like blitz Victory, okay, and acquired a
Speaker 2: lot of territory and a lot of clout, but obviously
Speaker 2: again owing to AH its situation on the cone of
Speaker 2: South America. I mean there's a strategic significance there regardless.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like the South Atlantic, you know,
Speaker 2: and access to the South Atlantic and specifically the ability
Speaker 2: to engage you know, the US fleet in the Atlantic
Speaker 2: potentially you know, before it even you know, is able
Speaker 2: to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western hemisphere potentially.
Speaker 2: I mean, that was huge. But it's also you know,
Speaker 2: there's a there, there's there's there's something to the idea
Speaker 2: of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a fire that
Speaker 2: catches or some kind of virulent backless if you'll forgive
Speaker 2: the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true, and people
Speaker 2: are accepting that more and more now. Not not because
Speaker 2: they've taken on some kind of unutive view of commune
Speaker 2: in history or something, and not even that that's that's
Speaker 2: that's not even really in the contemplation. And most of
Speaker 2: these kind of like neuroscience types and you know, kind
Speaker 2: of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk about
Speaker 2: the way like memes become truly viral and like information
Speaker 2: it becomes viral. You know, that's kind of a narrow
Speaker 2: that's kind of a whittled down version of what the
Speaker 2: phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum uh
Speaker 2: is something that is a real thing. You know, it's
Speaker 2: the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for racial
Speaker 2: and cultural differences and you know, really uh really uh
Speaker 2: controlling for all variables suggesting true diversity. You know this
Speaker 2: this can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know,
Speaker 2: like as I've talked about with respect to Vietnam, and
Speaker 2: you know previously one of the ways that parts with
Speaker 2: people like Meersheimer, but this idea that you have this
Speaker 2: kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind of
Speaker 2: cloudset which on steroidsvie of warfare like well, you know,
Speaker 2: credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so long as
Speaker 2: you have you know, strategic forces and being to devastate
Speaker 2: your enemy. And there was no quote you know, key,
Speaker 2: there there's no essential interest in Vietnam. It didn't matter,
Speaker 2: you know, in the twentieth century, like wars weren't fought,
Speaker 2: you know, to control you know, access to rubber plantations,
Speaker 2: you know, or like you know, fur trade routes. Like
Speaker 2: Vietnam became World War three by proxy because like that's
Speaker 2: where the battle lines were drawn. Like that's where the
Speaker 2: Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's that's
Speaker 2: where Washington had to had to draw the line and respond.
Speaker 2: You know, it didn't matter that it was in Sou
Speaker 2: East Asia and there's not some quote key interests there
Speaker 2: according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy. So
Speaker 2: in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile, I
Speaker 2: mean there wasn't there wasn't there is beginning. If there wasn't,
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. You know, Uh, a communist revolution there
Speaker 2: would have, uh would have developed tremendous momentum that had
Speaker 2: profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even beyond
Speaker 2: you know, like the South American continent and into you know,
Speaker 2: Central and uh in North America. Even so, I don't
Speaker 2: think to keep in mind, now, what what was the
Speaker 2: situation in Chile generally, Like because this is important, it
Speaker 2: relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself and
Speaker 2: why they were such a test case and staunch resistance
Speaker 2: to communism and taking a cultural anthropologist. They used to
Speaker 2: write quite a bit about this, you know, why why
Speaker 2: some of these in their mind and this is a
Speaker 2: superficial view of my point, like why some of these
Speaker 2: Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain,
Speaker 2: but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from
Speaker 2: those cultural malouse they're not. These people don't represent a
Speaker 2: martial race in the way we think of like the
Speaker 2: Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like
Speaker 2: military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh,
Speaker 2: whether it's the coute is it? You know the quote
Speaker 2: of Adalgo kind of like we're large, is it? You
Speaker 2: know that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism.
Speaker 2: I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually
Speaker 2: quite fascinating, you know. But the you see, this is
Speaker 2: some degree in France too, but in the Iberian cultures
Speaker 2: it's more pronounced. But the military heads had an outsized
Speaker 2: role in Chile, you know, like it did in Spain,
Speaker 2: like it didn't Portugal, like it does in Italy or
Speaker 2: it didn't Italy. Okay, this is a fact. There was
Speaker 2: a there was a culture into itself. Okay, Now there
Speaker 2: is a Chile. As I just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography.
Speaker 2: It's always successful potential encirclement by rival states in the
Speaker 2: north and to the east. So it's institutional orientation of
Speaker 2: its armed forces was always on the possibility of fighting
Speaker 2: a multi front war. Now who executive does that sound like?
Speaker 2: That sounds exactly like the Prussians and what gave rise
Speaker 2: to the staff system, which you know, ultimately every modern
Speaker 2: army imitates. But there was going to this fact even
Speaker 2: before the Chilean military modernized, you know, in the in
Speaker 2: the wake of you know, the the Great War and
Speaker 2: what have you. There's always certain there there's always an
Speaker 2: understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean army, in particularly
Speaker 2: the army had to be built around a kind of
Speaker 2: cadre structure, you know, where some version of mission oriented
Speaker 2: tactics that had to be cultivated. You know, they're like,
Speaker 2: you know, anybody in a leadership role from like NCO
Speaker 2: upward would have to exhibit you know, a superior training
Speaker 2: efficiency motivation. You know, basically man for man be better
Speaker 2: than the enemy, okay, because again Chile was was basically
Speaker 2: always facing a kind of like on Schleief and quagmire,
Speaker 2: if that makes any sense. And there's certain anthropological factors too,
Speaker 2: of a of a more kind of cultural nature, okay,
Speaker 2: Like the the Chilean army was very, very very Catholic.
Speaker 2: The background of Pinochet himself as well as Admiral Marino
Speaker 2: Jose Todebo Merino Castro, they were the two most important
Speaker 2: figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front, but this
Speaker 2: was you know, rule by a military committee basically, and
Speaker 2: uh not, Marino was a It was kind of the
Speaker 2: brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was a
Speaker 2: very intelligent man, as we'll see, but Admirbles tend to
Speaker 2: be like a cut above in terms of intellectual capabilities
Speaker 2: and organizational skills and things. But they both these men
Speaker 2: kind of came to define. They were both like exemplars
Speaker 2: of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so,
Speaker 2: and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in
Speaker 2: the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet went
Speaker 2: into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter,
Speaker 2: like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us,
Speaker 2: you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions
Speaker 2: and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing
Speaker 2: the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of
Speaker 2: all of all of the entire choir, you know, where
Speaker 2: we're literally like Christian warriors, you know. And pinisiate believe
Speaker 2: that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't
Speaker 2: just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you
Speaker 2: know shore up. Uh. His is his public image or something,
Speaker 2: you know, And even even if he'd wanted to like,
Speaker 2: that's not the way he'd go about it. I mean,
Speaker 2: even even then when there was you know, kind of
Speaker 2: a Catholic moment owing to the only only a certain
Speaker 2: certain things related to the Cold War and in the
Speaker 2: situation in Northern Ireland and other stuff. But in the
Speaker 2: event after World War Two, obviously people you know think
Speaker 2: about they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these
Speaker 2: Latin American states you know, taking up with America in
Speaker 2: uh for you know, for out a strategic convenience as
Speaker 2: well as going to the you know kind of the
Speaker 2: kind of pentagons like outsized influent. It's only to them
Speaker 2: on Roe doctrine and other things, and it's kind of
Speaker 2: like historical variables, you know, plus the fact that direct
Speaker 2: capital subsidies were always coveted, you know, by these countries.
Speaker 2: You know, even though these states weren't ruined by World
Speaker 2: War Two, they were like goun touched, you know, there
Speaker 2: was they still there was still short on development and
Speaker 2: perpetually short on capital. But there was something superficial about
Speaker 2: this on the side of uh, these states who were
Speaker 2: coveting American patronage, like US military influence never really took
Speaker 2: in Latin America. You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras,
Speaker 2: El Salvador, all these all these states where you know
Speaker 2: that America, all these states that basically America set up
Speaker 2: things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military
Speaker 2: and independence with like US military influence never overwhelmed the
Speaker 2: kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know,
Speaker 2: there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout
Speaker 2: you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially,
Speaker 2: but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know
Speaker 2: what we're talking about like the efforts of you know,
Speaker 2: the American successive American regimes to kind of you know
Speaker 2: cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American
Speaker 2: you know, like military type regimes it uh and the
Speaker 2: you know, the and even uh even in terms of
Speaker 2: professional development and things like all modern armies need to
Speaker 2: be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know,
Speaker 2: relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that
Speaker 2: very much like like a very like in Chile as
Speaker 2: well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent
Speaker 2: class within the army developed, but beyond that, the kind
Speaker 2: of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional culture
Speaker 2: of America like didn't really take there, you know, Like
Speaker 2: now now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile there's
Speaker 2: a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from immigrant
Speaker 2: backgrounds now against a Chile. Those immigrants were German, they
Speaker 2: were English, they were Italian, they were French, they were Syrian,
Speaker 2: they were Croatian. That's why when you look at like
Speaker 2: a roster of of the Chilean officer corps, like first
Speaker 2: of all, it's a bunch of like white and kind
Speaker 2: of like Arab or like you know, Italian looking guys.
Speaker 2: And they've got like European surnames, you know, so you've
Speaker 2: you've quite literally got this kind of European and europe
Speaker 2: and europe adjacent officer or in a country that's you know,
Speaker 2: frankly majority mixed race, you know. So it's you're talking
Speaker 2: about like literally like a culture within it, within a
Speaker 2: broader culture, you know, not just of an institutional sort,
Speaker 2: but of you know, an actual you know, like like
Speaker 2: like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sort, rather like categorically like, uh,
Speaker 2: there were two German speaking Lutherans on h On uh
Speaker 2: in the junta. It was uh Fernando Matthai uh, the
Speaker 2: Air force commander and Rodolpho Strange, who was the chief
Speaker 2: and National police something there you go. And uh, A
Speaker 2: lot of these immigrant families, if they weren't moneyed, you know,
Speaker 2: like they they encouraged their sons to become military officers
Speaker 2: because that was really the way, that was the only
Speaker 2: way to get clout if you weren't part of the
Speaker 2: national majority, you know. The Uh. Now, of course, the
Speaker 2: Marxist view, which has faded somewhat obviously it's the cold war.
Speaker 2: But it's kind of like this, it's kind of like
Speaker 2: this cockroach that won't die. It just like emerges again
Speaker 2: and again and and it doesn't help that like Howard
Speaker 2: is in it kind of as like new life now
Speaker 2: in US academia. But most scholars, even most military sociologists,
Speaker 2: they're tainted some of this idea that like, you know,
Speaker 2: look like South American soldiers, like you know, from the
Speaker 2: officer corps on down, you know, to the end level
Speaker 2: of n c o s. They just represented there. They
Speaker 2: were basically like mercenaries who like represent the interests of
Speaker 2: global capitalism, like backed up by the Pentagon, you know,
Speaker 2: and they and they were like basically like the security
Speaker 2: force that techno creits and and uh and and and
Speaker 2: you know and in factory owners you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: they're they're they're raised on detros, destroyed left wing politics.
Speaker 2: You don't empower these techno creats who can facilitate, you know,
Speaker 2: the the assimilation of these countries like into the globalist structure,
Speaker 2: like that doesn't really make any sense, okay, And like
Speaker 2: it doesn't in the case like a real lack of
Speaker 2: understanding of kind of human motivations and what attracts people
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of the institutional trappings of like
Speaker 2: heritage and ritual and stuff like nobody a bunch of
Speaker 2: a bunch of salvad orient National police types and a
Speaker 2: bunch of Chilean officers weren't just like pretending to be
Speaker 2: Catholic because they're like they were worried about their public image,
Speaker 2: you know, and they weren't. They weren't goose stepping around
Speaker 2: the parade deck because they thought that that would make people.
Speaker 2: They thought that they thought that that would like help
Speaker 2: their image. Okay, I mean like it's it's not you know,
Speaker 2: and plus the kind of stuff that you know, as
Speaker 2: we'll see, you know, guys like Pinochet, you know these
Speaker 2: This was not a situation like with Zelenski, where uh
Speaker 2: you know, some sort of crist I mean, you couldn't
Speaker 2: really have a Zelensky situation in the Cold War. But
Speaker 2: my point is not it's not like it's not like Pinochet.
Speaker 2: It was like pocketing a bunch of money and him
Speaker 2: in his general as well, getting rich and picking up
Speaker 2: teenage mistresses and like ripping around in Mercedes and in
Speaker 2: the streets of uh, you know, Santiago or whatever, you know, it.
Speaker 2: These guys lived almost some anastic life, you know, like
Speaker 2: they they didn't they didn't live in poverty, but they
Speaker 2: you know, they did they didn't. They didn't have me
Speaker 2: they didn't have means, you know, like even uh like
Speaker 2: Pinochet prior to prior to the junta and even he
Speaker 2: he basically like lived like a pauper or it didn't
Speaker 2: really own anything, you know, something this idea that this
Speaker 2: idea that you know, oh well, all these all these
Speaker 2: kinds of weird I mean not weird in a punitive way,
Speaker 2: but all these unusual let me let let's let's let's
Speaker 2: employ that the scriptor this kind of like unusual features
Speaker 2: a Latin American military life, that somehow these were just
Speaker 2: like super structural trappings, you know, that kind of like
Speaker 2: hid what amount to do a literally mercenary ethos like
Speaker 2: that's this is like nonsense. Now what uh what was
Speaker 2: we we? You know, we we got into the fact
Speaker 2: that America didn't really put a lasting stamp on the
Speaker 2: on the Latin American military culture generally and specifically Chilean
Speaker 2: military life. But what did well after the uh, after
Speaker 2: the War the Pacific, you know, which we talked about
Speaker 2: a minute ago, which ended in eighteen eighty four. The
Speaker 2: president uh Do Mingo Santa Maria. He realized that the
Speaker 2: army needed to modernize and reoranize itself in the model
Speaker 2: of a European army. They basically out fought Peru and Bolivia,
Speaker 2: you know, but it uh they you know, the world
Speaker 2: was changing and he and the army was still low
Speaker 2: tech like basically with carry the day was again like
Speaker 2: a very game officer corps, you know, that was and
Speaker 2: cod evn CIOs the rint of missionary and tactics and frankly,
Speaker 2: you know, just a lot of a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of men who are very tough and very hungry
Speaker 2: for prestige and uh and to serve the fatherland. But
Speaker 2: what uh, what what the Chilean has decided on They
Speaker 2: fixed their sites in Germany, who they viewed as uh,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like the zenith of of of
Speaker 2: a military prowess, you know. And and then that's kind
Speaker 2: of when German cloud was at it was added zenith.
Speaker 2: I would say, okay, the uh, the Chilean regime, it
Speaker 2: was it was already familiar with Germans as a people,
Speaker 2: like in the south of the country. Basically the German
Speaker 2: colonization down there, like it it led to tremendous capital development,
Speaker 2: you know, and the uh, there's basically a sense of like, well,
Speaker 2: what can't these people do, you know, like it, uh,
Speaker 2: we we want to cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway,
Speaker 2: because you know, they're like we basically like we need
Speaker 2: these people. You know. It's like a shot in the
Speaker 2: arm of our the entire paradigm of national development. You know.
Speaker 2: The embassy in Berlin, the Chilean embassy in Berlin was
Speaker 2: in the charge of a guy named Guermo Mata. He
Speaker 2: contacted the German military directly. He apparently had some kind
Speaker 2: of good rapport with Marshall von Molt, you know, who
Speaker 2: was uh like a heavy heavy personage and he uh
Speaker 2: he was ultimately uh he was ultimately put uh put
Speaker 2: in touch for the man named Emil Corner, who was
Speaker 2: an artillery captain Opprussian and he was stationed at the
Speaker 2: Artillery and Engineering School of Charlottenburg. So basically he had
Speaker 2: a background minus the calorie experience like blackjack person. You know,
Speaker 2: this is like exact the kind of man you want,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're looking for like a single man
Speaker 2: you know, uh of a middle level officer rank to
Speaker 2: bring your forces up to par you know it. They
Speaker 2: really kind of struck gold of them. The guy was
Speaker 2: also like a big war hero, you know. He Uh
Speaker 2: he signed on for a five year work agreement with
Speaker 2: Chile AIDS and he basically the Chileans told him, like,
Speaker 2: you know, basically they turn our forest into the Prussian Army. Okay,
Speaker 2: and after becoming a Chilean officer himself corner sort of
Speaker 2: the armies inspector general for a decade from until nineteen ten. Okay.
Speaker 2: So the army that the army that Pinechet joined joined
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty three, okay, suspicious year, right, and uh,
Speaker 2: basically this army had just been like restructured and the
Speaker 2: kind of like the Prussian Army of Latin America. Okay,
Speaker 2: it was a total leader of an institution then. Uh
Speaker 2: than that that that was you know, people entered, you know,
Speaker 2: like a generation earlier, you know that like Pinochet's father
Speaker 2: like you know, would have would have encountered. Penichet was born. Uh,
Speaker 2: he was born in November nineteen November twenty fifth, nineteen
Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen. He was the descendant of Breton immigrants and
Speaker 2: uh and Basques. His bast carritage was maternal. The family
Speaker 2: had been in Chile since the seventeenth century. The Breton
Speaker 2: immigrants were recent. But that's uh, that's a very interesting
Speaker 2: category at least I think so Penche always wanted to
Speaker 2: be a soldier. His great uncle was a veteran of
Speaker 2: the War of the Pacific. His uh, you know, his
Speaker 2: his godfather told him about you know, uh, serving in
Speaker 2: the French army in World War One. Eventually his father
Speaker 2: kind of like relented, even though he wanted him to
Speaker 2: study medicine, you know, and pursue a more kind of
Speaker 2: traditional path the cloud because like Pinochet's family was well off,
Speaker 2: you know, they weren't. They weren't people who needed, you know,
Speaker 2: a military officers son to enjoy upward mobility, and uh,
Speaker 2: what was common, uh, what was common among his coterie
Speaker 2: of officers, including you know, historians have taken the oral
Speaker 2: histories of these guys who came of age when Pinochet did,
Speaker 2: and there's actually a fair amount of like these in
Speaker 2: conflict literature on this. You know, I'm not not necessarily
Speaker 2: friendly variant, but it's it's pretty value neutral. But these guys,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just pinish it. He wasn't just kind of
Speaker 2: like romantic dream or outlier like the officers of that
Speaker 2: generation pretty much to a man, they talked about Catholicism
Speaker 2: and a childhood fascination with with like military heroes, you know,
Speaker 2: and like the discipline of you know these you know
Speaker 2: these uh the you know these these officers who were
Speaker 2: you know who in in like Prussian uniforms, you know,
Speaker 2: but like flawless like parade drill and things like that.
Speaker 2: You know, like this is basically like any like any
Speaker 2: kid of like European stock, like European or Arab or
Speaker 2: like you know, adjacent stock in Chile, Like this is
Speaker 2: what he wanted to be, you know, Like they can't
Speaker 2: really be overstated. Like Robert O'Kelly, who is Pinechet's economics minister,
Speaker 2: you know, and again, uh, you know, a guy of
Speaker 2: European pedigree. His grandfather was a was a navy man
Speaker 2: in the world of Pacific, like he said, like in
Speaker 2: his biography, it never is autobiography, it never it never
Speaker 2: occurred to me to be anything else than a sailor, Like,
Speaker 2: without a doubt, the navy is a vocation, like the priesthood,
Speaker 2: not everybody is called to be tied to the post.
Speaker 2: Like that's what these guys looked at it again and
Speaker 2: you know like where the where the where they where
Speaker 2: the vanguard of the fatherland and where you know and
Speaker 2: we're and we're you know where they where? The church militant.
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural
Speaker 2: identitarian variables. You know, the uh and there was ah
Speaker 2: the army uh in there a a uh even even
Speaker 2: when even when a military draft is implemented, pursue it
Speaker 2: to the you know, twentieth century reforms like the way
Speaker 2: like army literature like they're like recruiting literature at the
Speaker 2: time and kind of like they're they're sort of you know,
Speaker 2: after a these like kind of like after action what
Speaker 2: amounts a kind of like these kind of like romantic
Speaker 2: novels of like the Daring do of of Officers and
Speaker 2: there were the Pacific but it's kind of like dressed
Speaker 2: up as like after action reports. Like it was like
Speaker 2: all like the theme that is like on the nose,
Speaker 2: like through all this stuff is uh. You know that
Speaker 2: you know, being a soldier is it's it's it's different
Speaker 2: than any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to
Speaker 2: the fatherland, you know, like a like a monk gives
Speaker 2: his life to the church, you know. And it's it's
Speaker 2: not that that that's unique, it's uniquely Catholic. It's like
Speaker 2: you need, it's both uniquely Prussian and uniquely Catholic, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, a collision of uh of opposing tendencies. But
Speaker 2: you know that's uh that there's there's a syncreticism. There's
Speaker 2: a syncretism there that's really interesting. But the uh there
Speaker 2: it also something and this was again like another Prussian
Speaker 2: tendency that was brought to bear. There's a really strong
Speaker 2: devotion to continual study of warfare that uh. Pinochet said that,
Speaker 2: you know, he first started reading when he got to
Speaker 2: the military. His first reading assignment was the Rebellion of
Speaker 2: the Master it is or the Revolt of the Master
Speaker 2: it is by they were taking guess it's and a
Speaker 2: lot of friends of ours will be familiar with it.
Speaker 2: And the Gallic War was by Caesar. After that he
Speaker 2: became this bibliophile. Penichet when he died went to approximately
Speaker 2: fifty five thousand books like many of which were rare
Speaker 2: and one of a kind. So he was a he
Speaker 2: was another like man of books. That makes me feel
Speaker 2: a bit better about my own book hoarding. Frankly, now
Speaker 2: here's get into kind of like the nitty gritty of
Speaker 2: what created this, you know, kind of irreparable divide between
Speaker 2: you know, civil society and the Chilean army. You know what,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just the kind of factors we talked about
Speaker 2: a moment ago of an identitarian sort, but very very
Speaker 2: few military personnel actually voted in elections in Chile, even
Speaker 2: though they were technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but
Speaker 2: it was considered unseemly. You know, soldiers aren't supposed to
Speaker 2: be political, and you know, not just because they're they're
Speaker 2: supposed to serve you know, the fatherland first and foremost
Speaker 2: and not not discreet you know, political factions or or
Speaker 2: interests they're in. But it's also like it's it's it's viewed.
Speaker 2: They viewed it as like beneath them, you know, particularly
Speaker 2: consider the kind of elitist and and you know, uh
Speaker 2: monastic sort of id like self concept these men had.
Speaker 2: And also the uh when the when the draft was? Uh?
Speaker 2: When when the conscript? When the when the conscription regime
Speaker 2: was implemented, you know, uh, the like the new conscripts.
Speaker 2: I couldn't vote, you know, because they weren't they weren't,
Speaker 2: they weren't twenty one.
Speaker 1: What's interesting I saw an interview with Michael Flynn, I
Speaker 1: think Patrick med David was interviewing, and Michael Flynn said
Speaker 1: the same thing he said when I was in I
Speaker 1: never voted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And it's it's really dysfunctional. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, the US military is like is like as
Speaker 2: awful as the rest of the fucking regime. But it's
Speaker 2: it's really really really dysfunctional. It's on its own face
Speaker 2: for you to have you know, any like when you're
Speaker 2: talking aout the officer corp of the enlicited ranks, did
Speaker 2: it you know, be like committed to some you know
Speaker 2: to some like electoral position. Yeah, you know it's some
Speaker 2: people can tell me, I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: You know, you know what pre servers fook you for
Speaker 2: basing Like I I know what I'm talking about in
Speaker 2: this regard. Okay, I I Am not gonna argue the
Speaker 2: point because it's obvious, but the it uh considering uh,
Speaker 2: considering the size of that of Chile's electorate and the
Speaker 2: number of commission and noncommissioned officers and the forearmed services
Speaker 2: taken together, and this is both politically and statistically significant.
Speaker 2: Like military votes, they're like if if if I'm listening
Speaker 2: to an authors had voted in appreciable numbers, it may
Speaker 2: not have decided any any any and you know, any
Speaker 2: presidential contest one or the other. But relatively but relatively
Speaker 2: small pluralities decided national elections regularly in Chile, and particularly
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight, in nineteen seventy where uh, something
Speaker 2: like thirty nine thousand votes, you know, like like we're
Speaker 2: what put the winning candidate over? You know, it's the
Speaker 2: uh and also too like it was it was it
Speaker 2: was it was against the law. It was a literally,
Speaker 2: it was literally a crime for you know that would
Speaker 2: available to court martial to protest, you know. Uh. And
Speaker 2: that was a pretty that was a pretty widely that's
Speaker 2: pretty that's pretty loosely interpreted. Okay, I mean anybody, you know,
Speaker 2: a man coulda be brought up on charges and a
Speaker 2: failed to courts martial, you know, not just for joining
Speaker 2: you know, some not just like throwing bricks in the
Speaker 2: street at you know it a cap with or whatever.
Speaker 2: But just if you associated with the parties that were
Speaker 2: considered to be, you know, have a platform that tended
Speaker 2: towards you know, trying to have this credit the political process,
Speaker 2: you know, based on ideological commitments or you know, associating
Speaker 2: with parties who's you know do his tink members you know,
Speaker 2: had said things that impe impugned the honor of the
Speaker 2: fatherland like this is this is not something they would
Speaker 2: have fuck with. Okay, like even even more they inclined
Speaker 2: and they weren't and uh pinichet to I mean starting
Speaker 2: a service, you know, quite literally in nineteen thirty three,
Speaker 2: there was even greater kind of technical aptitude demanded by
Speaker 2: new officers, especially in the Navy and the Air Force,
Speaker 2: but I mean also in the army, particularly as regards
Speaker 2: command and control, you know, the UH. So as these
Speaker 2: officers became more world leagues, they had to be like
Speaker 2: they'd send them they'd be sent to you know, they'd
Speaker 2: be sent to UH, Africa, Asia, Europe, other places in
Speaker 2: Latin America, you know, to as inn liaison capacity and
Speaker 2: to like learn from other militaries and like as these
Speaker 2: guys developed you know, linguistic attitudes for foreign languages as
Speaker 2: they literally saw the rest of the world, you know,
Speaker 2: as they talked to you know, they they talked to
Speaker 2: Wehrmacht officers, you know, they talk to you know, French officers,
Speaker 2: they talk to guys you know, like serving uh In
Speaker 2: uh In you know, in Mexico close to the American
Speaker 2: border or whatever. Like, they developed a worldly perspective, and
Speaker 2: they came to understand you know, as time went on,
Speaker 2: they you know, they came to they came to understand
Speaker 2: the Cold War, you know, and they developed an idea
Speaker 2: of like where Chile featured into that, you know, by
Speaker 2: the Pinochet era. Like It's what I'm getting is that
Speaker 2: these weren't just like a bunch of provincial roots or something,
Speaker 2: or like we're trying to turn back the clock or whatever.
Speaker 2: And they weren't just you know, mercenaries for hire in
Speaker 2: the service of you know, basically acting like I think
Speaker 2: like you know, like like like pinkertons on steroids, you know,
Speaker 2: beat down or calc trent like labor types. You know,
Speaker 2: they they developed an understanding of like Veldt politique and
Speaker 2: where Latin America featured into that equation, you know, and
Speaker 2: this brings us to what was insidious about Alende. Okay,
Speaker 2: Sauter Orlande in the nineteen sixties was a very busy boy. Okay,
Speaker 2: his schedule tookhim to North Korea, North Vietnam. In East Germany,
Speaker 2: Allende believed that the DDR was his best bet in
Speaker 2: terms of identifying a patron the which is very interesting,
Speaker 2: and the DDR it wasn't just the spear point of
Speaker 2: Warsaw pack like the National volks Army wasn't just a
Speaker 2: spear point of Warsaw Pact. And not only was East
Speaker 2: Germany kind of like the crown jewel of like this
Speaker 2: the Stalinist satellite states. East Germany practiced the kind of
Speaker 2: world politique in a way that the Cubans did, but
Speaker 2: like a little bit more sophisticated. Even like there's these
Speaker 2: Germans Angola, there was East Germans in Yemen which became
Speaker 2: South Yemen. There's these Germans uh in Ethiopia, Eritrea, there's
Speaker 2: East Germans on Grenada. When you know, the US Army
Speaker 2: assaulted Grenado in eighty three for a for what I'm
Speaker 2: wanted to do, a rump state of twenty million people
Speaker 2: and a regime that was constantly uh dealing with an
Speaker 2: existential threat on its inner border. Like literally like these
Speaker 2: guys were remarkably active in uh In, in waging the
Speaker 2: Cold War and in a in like a direct action
Speaker 2: capacity you know, to say nothing like the bottom minehoff Gang,
Speaker 2: to say nothing of you know, uh them bank rolling
Speaker 2: in train the popular Front of liberations in Palestine, Like
Speaker 2: it's remarkable. But Allende knew this. Okay, In East Berlin,
Speaker 2: Aline met with the party secretary general and de facto
Speaker 2: you know, head of State Walter Ubricht, who preceded Honiker
Speaker 2: from forty nine to seventy one. Ubricht was General Secretary
Speaker 2: and then he was under cremoniously sideline in favor of
Speaker 2: Honiker from nineteen seventy one until the end. But uh
Speaker 2: he u Ubricht put him in direct content with Hermann Akson,
Speaker 2: who was who was the Central Committee Secretary for a
Speaker 2: national relations the equivalent of the foreign minister. Okay, action's
Speaker 2: assignment for the duration of his tenure, particularly in the
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies, he was the function as a liaison
Speaker 2: with communist parties throughout the world, you know, and and
Speaker 2: basically this is the stuff that smacks of you know
Speaker 2: like the old days the Communist International, you know, which
Speaker 2: U with Stalin, you know, put an end to by
Speaker 2: Dick Todd and and turned into common form. But it's
Speaker 2: but but it goes to show you how uh, how
Speaker 2: these this these things never really went away. You know,
Speaker 2: they developed a certain operational sophistication and and kind of
Speaker 2: institutionalization and and and kind of and kind of a
Speaker 2: streamline operational set of operational tendencies. But it you know,
Speaker 2: they they remained the same beast of prey, but with
Speaker 2: different slightly different stripes it uh as it were. But uh,
Speaker 2: whether or Lending met with the Stazi directly and Eric Milk,
Speaker 2: it's not known, but I imagine he would have. Okay,
Speaker 2: Eric Milk was uh he was in direct content with
Speaker 2: Daniel Ortega, with uh, with Kadafi, with Minjitsu with uh
Speaker 2: you know all these all these uh, all these proxy
Speaker 2: all these proxy elements that uh, the Warsaw Pact was
Speaker 2: was uh, you know, directly supporting and Shtazi men. Uh.
Speaker 2: Their role was not just as uh you know, policeman
Speaker 2: and as espionage espionage agents. They had a role that
Speaker 2: we considered it more kind of the more suggestive of
Speaker 2: special Operations Command. It's complicated, but uh, the the East
Speaker 2: Berlin basically treated accents recommendations like they came from on high. Okay,
Speaker 2: he was that good. I think it was kind of
Speaker 2: like a I think kind of I think of this
Speaker 2: kind of it's kind of like a a red crowd
Speaker 2: version of George Kennon, like legit, I mean, I have,
Speaker 2: like all respect, A lot of these d d R
Speaker 2: functionaries were damn impressive. Definitely the best that the worst
Speaker 2: up Peck produced. Of course, what Alinda was doing didn't
Speaker 2: go unnoticed. C I a Defense Intelligence CIA at that time.
Speaker 2: It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it
Speaker 2: was still uh it was still primarily like the eyes
Speaker 2: and ears of of American intelligence behind the East blot,
Speaker 2: behind the Berlin Wall, you know. So CI they took
Speaker 2: notice immediately when allendi was started popping up in East Berlin.
Speaker 2: Uh Nixon, Uh Nixon, uh said the Kissinger. He's like, look,
Speaker 2: you know this Alandi's not he's not some he's not
Speaker 2: some simple farmer or some starry eyed you know, uh,
Speaker 2: just uh you know, self styled uh you know, agrarian revolutionary,
Speaker 2: like this guy is serious, you know, and he's he's
Speaker 2: not what you know, American liberals are presenting him as
Speaker 2: and he's not benign, you know, and Kusinger obviously agreed.
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know it. Uh. The uh also
Speaker 2: is the fact chill the Chilean the Chilean Communist Party
Speaker 2: was uh. It was by far the largest and best
Speaker 2: organized in South America, Okay, And that's one of the things.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that made it appealing to
Speaker 2: the d d R. And also we were talking about
Speaker 2: the Germans and the wonderful things they did for Chile.
Speaker 2: Well some of those Germans were unfortunately communists, and they
Speaker 2: you know, we're building up political architecture on the other side,
Speaker 2: you know, and this was, uh, this is very much
Speaker 2: a problem, it uh. I mean from a geopolitical view,
Speaker 2: I mean, think about that, like the cone of Latin
Speaker 2: America just becoming communists, you know, or uh, all of
Speaker 2: Latin America falling and maybe Brazil remaining kind of in
Speaker 2: this garrison siege capacity. I mean that that changes everything,
Speaker 2: you know. And like I've always said, like I'm always saying,
Speaker 2: it didn't matter that these marsais Lands regimes are totally
Speaker 2: dysfunctional and created a created economies of shortage. There's all
Speaker 2: kinds of governments that don't really work, right that that
Speaker 2: Shambalaine perpetuity. It was very possible. It was not at
Speaker 2: all the stuff of kind of like fever dream nightmare
Speaker 2: fantasies to imagine a world where post aton like the
Speaker 2: entire the entire like developing world or colored world goes
Speaker 2: red like kind of the remaining like American friendly regimes
Speaker 2: outside of UH, Northern Europe and Japan, you know, just
Speaker 2: like eventually just kind of like succumb and fall and
Speaker 2: America becomes kind of just like to say, Garrison state,
Speaker 2: like surrounded by like a hostile communist world like that
Speaker 2: very easily could have come about, Okay, and that that
Speaker 2: would be a very dangerous planet. You know, we could
Speaker 2: argue at some or we can discuss at some point
Speaker 2: whether that's preferable or not to the current situation. But
Speaker 2: it that's Monday morning quarterback, and in the epoch of
Speaker 2: you know, say nineteen seventy three, you know, seventy four
Speaker 2: to seventy five, this was absolutely a very real possibility. Okay.
Speaker 2: Now the minute, the minute, the moment A Landy was
Speaker 2: elected president Chile, UH, the East German regime like through
Speaker 2: Stazi support behind him. Okay, within a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: It doesn't like COVID operation. The Grilla warfare specialists who
Speaker 2: were from the Stasi, they were dispatched a Sandiago and
Speaker 2: there diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Block
Speaker 2: UH special operations capable elements, including from Czechoslovakia and and
Speaker 2: and then the Soviet Union itself and all probability. They
Speaker 2: set up a camp near Valparaiso. UH. The Soviets furnished weapons,
Speaker 2: prefabricated huts. They like they literally just set up this
Speaker 2: kind of like grilla warfare school, like bam, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's like, uh, it's like if you buy like
Speaker 2: a McDonald's franchise. It's like you buy like a you
Speaker 2: buy you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan
Speaker 2: and they show up and it's just like bam, you know,
Speaker 2: here's here's like your franchise literature. Here's a buy Klashnik
Speaker 2: coughs you here's something like snazzy freaking uh you know,
Speaker 2: uh uniforms, and you know, and here's here's some you know,
Speaker 2: like here's something like enameled like red star pins for
Speaker 2: your freaking cap and like you're good to go, you know,
Speaker 2: like go go, go, go go capitalists. But the UH
Speaker 2: and Milk actually wrote he Milk would UH. He'd sent
Speaker 2: out these what amounts to enter off his memos to
Speaker 2: every directorate of the Stazi periodically, and on December eighteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two, he said, Uh, you know, the CHECKS
Speaker 2: or the d DR will will welcome with enthusiasm and
Speaker 2: happiness the great victory of the National Celerity movement for
Speaker 2: obtaining the freedom of the Secondary General or the Communist Party.
Speaker 2: Your friend and comrade Lewis Corvellon. Like Corvellon was some
Speaker 2: guy who'd been like in prison in Chile. I can't
Speaker 2: remember exactly what the and Milk would call. He called
Speaker 2: UH Ministry for State Security Officers, like checkis you know,
Speaker 2: because there's a callback to his days as a as
Speaker 2: an nkv D hitter, you know, during during UH the
Speaker 2: war in Spain and later the UH later UH the
Speaker 2: Second World War. But my point is like he was
Speaker 2: attuned like like Chile was very much like a key
Speaker 2: like theater in his mind. Okay, That's why he was
Speaker 2: That's why he was UH like braying about you know,
Speaker 2: these these UH, these kind of like like like little
Speaker 2: chess moves in Chile, like in Blu of other theaters.
Speaker 2: The UH, the Stasi set set to work UH in Chile,
Speaker 2: UH targeting UH, you know, target targeting Pinochet loyalists and
Speaker 2: what have you, you know, essentially essentially creating like a
Speaker 2: mirror of you know, in security terms, you know, like
Speaker 2: this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't
Speaker 2: Allende wasn't in the driver's seat long enough for UH
Speaker 2: Santiago to become you know, like a giant a giant
Speaker 2: version of of of East Berlin. But I think I
Speaker 2: mentioned the camera for we were on here or not?
Speaker 2: But like Ali North mentioned that when he was UH
Speaker 2: when he traveled to UH, when he traveled in Nicaragua
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty three or eighty four, like when when
Speaker 2: he himself was under diplomatic cover, like he relaid back
Speaker 2: by like telex that you know, like Monagua now is
Speaker 2: like it's like a scale model of of Checkpoint Charlie,
Speaker 2: the inner German border, you know, and it now what
Speaker 2: what happened during Pinochet's rain or like the Junta's reign
Speaker 2: Chile deteriorated into what something comparable to the years of lead.
Speaker 2: In Italy, Okay, there's a leftist urban guerrilla terror groups.
Speaker 2: They began, uh, a campaign of bombings, assassinations, you know,
Speaker 2: exactly the kind of bread and butter stuff that the
Speaker 2: Shazi taught people to do. You know, there was a
Speaker 2: that there's bombs exploding in Santiago, in Vienna, Del mar In,
Speaker 2: uh in all the major you know kind of commercial
Speaker 2: hubs and larger towns at Chile. You know, they were
Speaker 2: they were, they were, they were. They were targeting supermarkets, buses,
Speaker 2: government offices, you know, like shopping centers, you know, just
Speaker 2: like indiscriminately, like blowing people to hell. You know. This
Speaker 2: really ramped up in Earnest by the eighties, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: Between ninet eighty three and nineteen eighty six, there's more
Speaker 2: than a thousand bombings attributed to the Clandestine Communist Front
Speaker 2: and uh, this group in the color itself, the Revolutionary Movement,
Speaker 2: which is probably an umbrella of it, was probably like
Speaker 2: a like numerous like nonstate actors like under this kind
Speaker 2: of like rubric, you know, but because it may like
Speaker 2: they uh, they uh, a total of twenty one national
Speaker 2: police and military casualties were attributed to them in just
Speaker 2: four years. When nineteen eighty four nineteen eighty eight, East
Speaker 2: Germany contributed six million, seven or ninety five thousand and
Speaker 2: fifteen dollars to the Chilean Communist Party, that's a huge
Speaker 2: sum for forty years ago. And this is East Germany
Speaker 2: doing it. So they're basically just like they're they're they're
Speaker 2: throwing everything in their cash reser is basically that they've
Speaker 2: availed for, you know, foreign operations of a military sort.
Speaker 2: They're they're just like throwing this into the at their
Speaker 2: proxies in Chile. You know, I mean this was a
Speaker 2: this is a this is a highly valued battle theater. Okay,
Speaker 2: the U the most serious incident I guess of a
Speaker 2: in terms of potential harm, and the most kind of
Speaker 2: spectacular not not not let like literally spectacular in terms
Speaker 2: of the spectacle that I created, not spectacular like it's mourderful.
Speaker 2: So third seven, nineteen eighty six, UH guerrilla is ambushed
Speaker 2: Pinochet's motorcade. Your Santiago pener State survived. He didn't he
Speaker 2: didn't take any any lad but uh five members of
Speaker 2: his escort were killed. Ten people were wounded. The uh.
Speaker 2: It was basically like a comic cozingkind of attack. Twelve
Speaker 2: gunmen from calling themselves the Manuel where at Riga's Revolutionary Front,
Speaker 2: like simply assaulted with with automatic weapons and grenades. There
Speaker 2: was a there was never a trial. The government ever
Speaker 2: renounced in the arrest. Presumably these men those we're not
Speaker 2: killed at the scene. We're running down and and and
Speaker 2: and and and done away with Eventually. Uh. There were
Speaker 2: some including uh including Buro Amiida, you know who UH
Speaker 2: broke with the Communists completely owing to uh what he
Speaker 2: claimed was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of
Speaker 2: the East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: he I think he probably believed this, you know, He's like,
Speaker 2: I came to realize if if you know what was
Speaker 2: then my side one, you know, we we didn't up
Speaker 2: no better than the East Germans and what have you.
Speaker 2: And he broke with Communism and he made he managed
Speaker 2: to convince everybody, including Pinochet's people that he uh that
Speaker 2: this was like a genuine conversion, and he went on
Speaker 2: he went on to in post pinch Chile to be
Speaker 2: a like a heavy percentage. But and he actually uh
Speaker 2: his he was posted as uh as an ambassador in Moscow.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was like like like who's
Speaker 2: in humor or what, but the it uh, you know,
Speaker 2: and the and the list goes on and on of
Speaker 2: uh these you know, communist attacks. Uh. Even after Pinochet
Speaker 2: stepped down, you know, these these kinds of attacks continued.
Speaker 2: There's one, I mean not in the same kind of
Speaker 2: earnest but uh, some of these revolutionary types they they
Speaker 2: there's like this crazy in nineteen eighty six, the Semer
Speaker 2: ninety six they escaped, Uh, they escaped from the yard
Speaker 2: of the of this of this political prison they were
Speaker 2: held in, like with the help of these of these
Speaker 2: these original IRA operatives, like just like a helicopter like
Speaker 2: pulled them off the yard, just like you know, stuff
Speaker 2: like seeing some fucking like John Wick or Jason Bourne
Speaker 2: movie or something. But the you know, the and you know,
Speaker 2: not not for nothing either, like uh, I mean maybe
Speaker 2: maybe people don't know this, like Honaker Uh Eric Honecker
Speaker 2: was buried. He was buried in Chile like after he
Speaker 2: died and they laid the d d R flag on
Speaker 2: his coffin and everything, you know, like it's this was
Speaker 2: like this idea that you know the Ollendia regime. They
Speaker 2: were just these like kind of like social democrats you know,
Speaker 2: who you know, just wanted to, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: like give an alternative system a chance, and and these fascists,
Speaker 2: you know, just just just destroyed that potentiality, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was real war, Okay. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's no choice about it. And if people want to,
Speaker 2: I'm sure very nasty things happened to people who were
Speaker 2: suspected of being Communists or Commuy sympathizers. But I mean,
Speaker 2: what do people want, Like war is a terrible thing,
Speaker 2: you know, and you can't you can't only tell one
Speaker 2: side of these stories, you know. I mean, I know
Speaker 2: the Stazi was doing pretty nasty things to people at
Speaker 2: the same time, and the Stazi were agents of a
Speaker 2: foreign government who were trying to, you know, determine the
Speaker 2: political fate of a of a sovereign country. So that's
Speaker 2: that's about all I got for today. We can deep
Speaker 2: dive more into I mean there's a lot here, man, Frankly,
Speaker 2: I mean we can we can deep dive more into,
Speaker 2: like the personage of Pinichet if you want, when I
Speaker 2: get back from my trip. But that you know, I
Speaker 2: kind of want to give an overview of the situation
Speaker 2: as it were, as it was, you know, politically and
Speaker 2: strategically and culturally and everything else. I hope I've accomplished
Speaker 2: that well.
Speaker 1: One of the things that people bring up now because
Speaker 1: of a Netflix mini series called A Sinister Sect, there
Speaker 1: was a German colony called the Colonia Dignity DoD that
Speaker 1: is accused of doing all sorts of like acts of torture.
Speaker 1: People now say p Ando Chein knows that there were
Speaker 1: active child molesters operating in the country and he would
Speaker 1: protect them everything. I mean, I hear people I know
Speaker 1: saying these kind of things, and when you start deep
Speaker 1: diving into it, it's like, yeah, I mean, the guy
Speaker 1: was at war the whole time he was in office,
Speaker 1: and you know, to say that he was aware of
Speaker 1: all these things, and you know he just allowed him
Speaker 1: to happen, But.
Speaker 2: It's like, why would that even It's like every the
Speaker 2: story always changed. I remember I remember when I was
Speaker 2: in college and this guy was going around and he
Speaker 2: wrote a couple of books. He was some journal He
Speaker 2: was claiming that at the soccer stadium Pinochet's loyalists, they'd
Speaker 2: sit around watching people be beheaded and shear it, and
Speaker 2: they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them
Speaker 2: and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like gross for all kinds of reasons,
Speaker 2: but that that's that's so like fucking weird. That's just
Speaker 2: like not ship that happens. You know, it's like why
Speaker 2: and place? It's like who who? Like, like what's the
Speaker 2: source for this? Like guys who were watching this like
Speaker 2: came back and told you, like what, Like I it's
Speaker 2: always like something sexually perverted and just like really really
Speaker 2: really gross and just like outlandish, like it's you know,
Speaker 2: the like for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become
Speaker 2: this like fixation of theirs, you know, like uh, like
Speaker 2: it's really weird. You know, it's like why why not?
Speaker 2: Uh why not Sellizar, Like why not straws Nerd? Like
Speaker 2: why not? Uh? Prone Like why why Pinochet? Like you know,
Speaker 2: Pinochet was kind of like what you see is what
Speaker 2: you get, you know, like he was, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: he's very much like I mean, he was very much
Speaker 2: like we talked about. He was very much like a
Speaker 2: military officer with the kind of Prussian mold who was
Speaker 2: also like a very very very like pious kind of
Speaker 2: warrior catholic. I mean that's there's not I mean there's
Speaker 2: not that there's not really a lot there. I mean
Speaker 2: there's a lot there, but I mean, you know, not
Speaker 2: not in terms of you know, these these kinds of
Speaker 2: like deep dark and dirty secrets. And plus it's also
Speaker 2: too like the kind of there's a been noality the
Speaker 2: kind of horrible stuff that goes on at war. It's
Speaker 2: not like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo
Speaker 2: Nazi colony of child molesters who are like experimenting with
Speaker 2: people's DNA and like a soccer stadium where guys like
Speaker 2: practice beast reality. But it's not that's that's something from
Speaker 2: like the Warped Mind to somebody who like watches too
Speaker 2: much Henti or something, you know, like I it really is,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like but it's like for years, you know,
Speaker 2: people tell me that that Earnest like that Nazis they'd
Speaker 2: like take people's skin off and if they at tattoos,
Speaker 2: they'd make it into lamp shades and like show their friends.
Speaker 2: So it's like why would anybody do that? So you're
Speaker 2: basically saying that like the Germans are like a bunch
Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Dahmers, Like like why why would they even
Speaker 2: oc hurt anybody? You know, like uh, beyond the fact
Speaker 2: that it's like okay, like where you're getting this information
Speaker 2: and like who's like telling this to people? Like oh, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what I did today? Like I I like
Speaker 2: I found out with these childlisting Germans and then like
Speaker 2: one of the stadium where like this chip got like
Speaker 2: raped by dogs. It was awesome. I mean like like
Speaker 2: where where's this coming from? Like who's just closing these things?
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well hit up some plugs and we'll
Speaker 1: let on this.
Speaker 2: For sure. Uh. You can find me at Real Thomas
Speaker 2: seven seven seven that substack dot com. You can find
Speaker 2: me on Twitter x real Capital r E L Underscore
Speaker 2: number seven H one S seven seven seven. I'm going
Speaker 2: to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content for
Speaker 2: Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number seven
Speaker 2: HM as space TV and I think people will appreciate
Speaker 2: what I'm going to be dropping there. And by the
Speaker 2: end of the month, season two with a Mind Phaser
Speaker 2: podcast is going to drop and at which point all
Speaker 2: season one content is going to be free, so be
Speaker 2: able to access everything from season one and all special
Speaker 2: edition content for free, and subscripsion of season two is
Speaker 2: only physically five dollars a month, and that's like, that's
Speaker 2: as low as I can go and still remain and
Speaker 2: still not eat a loss. So like, unless you're a hobo,
Speaker 2: you can afford that. So and I'll make it worth
Speaker 2: your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free stuff too.
Speaker 2: That is uh, that is like a.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure I echo everyone
Speaker 1: else when I say this, safe travels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a
Speaker 2: few days.
Speaker 1: Thank you.