Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekiana Show
doing a little uh timely one here. We're gonna be
releasing this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody, some
people would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode,
but no, this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the
coup in Chile, and uh, I want to have Thomas
on to give his opinion of what it was and
how it went down and how it benefited the right.
Speaker 2: That sound good, I mean yeah, I mean we I
mean I mainly want to dismantle misconceptions as well as
out note confabulations about the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political,
and historical, because all these things play into the equation.
You know, I'm not just being a historical researcher who's
insane waiting his own fetishes for anthropological data into this discussion.
It really is significant in a way in the case
of Chile, in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular.
We're going to talk about what happened there and why
it became such a critical Cold War battle theater. And
that's the way to understand this. That's the way to
understand this that's the way to understand the totality of
what became Operation Condor. That's the way to understand the
situation in Argentina, which was a lot more murky and
conspiratorial than that at Chile. I mean that weren't the
discussion all onto itself, but particularly the the you know
what developed in Nicaragua and l Salvador and uh Granada
was key as well in the final phase of the
Cold War, and people they don't fully understand. At the time,
people generally did. It's interesting how they kind of tortured rationales.
People would resort to these Peter Arnett types, and even
Oliver Stone who made a pretty negative partisan movie about
you know, Central America. I think it was actually called Salvador.
I don't know how these people could rationalize. I mean,
I know how they did superficially, I mean I was
alive during the time, but how they could sort of
redact in their own mind the fact that Central and
South America, you know, maybe we refer to as Latin
America in total, was an active battle space in the
final phase of the Cold War, and it was a
truly critical battle space because not just in terms of
American credibility VI theam Unro doctrine and things. But that
would have rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw Packed was
always disadvantaged by owing the you know, facts of geography
and the fact that in that epoch the way four
structures were, you know, owing to the technology the day
it conferred a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it
could strike you know, basically from you know, within critical
range decapitation range. Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms
a Soviet territory. But the and finally, and I'll bring
it back to the discussion at hand in more precise terms,
and the daytad Era, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw
Pack and adjacent states, they were winning the Cold War.
It in military terms, it didn't matter that Warsaw Pack
was a basket case in terms of its internal situation.
It didn't matter that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know,
a crisis within the Kremline itself a leadership as you know,
it's kind of aged gerontocracy, like literally died off. You know. Uh,
America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, Uh, the
significance of that, but decoupling Beijing from warsaw packed but
that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously,
and that led to in turn, you know, the America
ended up backing the commun Rouge against the People's Army
of Vietnam, you know, because the Khmune Rouge were China's proxy.
So this prom so this three way proxy war developed,
you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were
victorious against Landol's forces, you know, between the Khmer Rouge
and the People's Army of Vietnam. You know, the United
the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the United
States and the People's at China were nominally backing the
bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam.
The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental
subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their Friendship
Pact as a hedge against China. America responded, you know,
by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and UH and
in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know,
and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the
kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union
at the time. You know that that's what caused them
to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about,
like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna
the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States,
and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought that
Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially going to the
loss of Iran. But also I mean that would you
know Afghanistans with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan, and Kazakhstan
was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean,
that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear command and control.
So I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent.
What ended it? I mean it was the invasion of
Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the
Communists run the move on every continent and goal is
another one, okay, And there was neither the political will
nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force
to enforce the Truman doctor and then come to the
direct aid of these you know, friendly states under siege
by Communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You
know that the draft had ended, and the revolution of
military affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented
yet in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems
and this command control technology like did exist, it just
hadn't been integrated into you know, force structures and being
in a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at
a map in uh nineteen seventy three, again in military terms,
the Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is
an oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there
was high hopes for it. You know, if used to
talk about Argentina like it was going to be the
United States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But
you know, despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries,
they're more European than they are like America or Canada.
You know, Chile became a pretty major regional military power
after what was called the War of the Pacific. This
took place in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four. Chile
fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and and
one this kind of like uh, you know, like like
like Prussian style like blitz Victory, okay, and acquired a
lot of territory and a lot of clout, but obviously
again owing to AH its situation on the cone of
South America. I mean there's a strategic significance there regardless.
You know, it's not like the South Atlantic, you know,
and access to the South Atlantic and specifically the ability
to engage you know, the US fleet in the Atlantic
potentially you know, before it even you know, is able
to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western hemisphere potentially.
I mean, that was huge. But it's also you know,
there's a there, there's there's there's something to the idea
of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a fire that
catches or some kind of virulent backless if you'll forgive
the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true, and people
are accepting that more and more now. Not not because
they've taken on some kind of unutive view of commune
in history or something, and not even that that's that's
that's not even really in the contemplation. And most of
these kind of like neuroscience types and you know, kind
of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk about
the way like memes become truly viral and like information
it becomes viral. You know, that's kind of a narrow
that's kind of a whittled down version of what the
phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum uh
is something that is a real thing. You know, it's
the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for racial
and cultural differences and you know, really uh really uh
controlling for all variables suggesting true diversity. You know this
this can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know,
like as I've talked about with respect to Vietnam, and
you know previously one of the ways that parts with
people like Meersheimer, but this idea that you have this
kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind of
cloudset which on steroidsvie of warfare like well, you know,
credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so long as
you have you know, strategic forces and being to devastate
your enemy. And there was no quote you know, key,
there there's no essential interest in Vietnam. It didn't matter,
you know, in the twentieth century, like wars weren't fought,
you know, to control you know, access to rubber plantations,
you know, or like you know, fur trade routes. Like
Vietnam became World War three by proxy because like that's
where the battle lines were drawn. Like that's where the
Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's that's
where Washington had to had to draw the line and respond.
You know, it didn't matter that it was in Sou
East Asia and there's not some quote key interests there
according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy. So
in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile, I
mean there wasn't there wasn't there is beginning. If there wasn't,
it didn't matter. You know, Uh, a communist revolution there
would have, uh would have developed tremendous momentum that had
profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even beyond
you know, like the South American continent and into you know,
Central and uh in North America. Even so, I don't
think to keep in mind, now, what what was the
situation in Chile generally, Like because this is important, it
relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself and
why they were such a test case and staunch resistance
to communism and taking a cultural anthropologist. They used to
write quite a bit about this, you know, why why
some of these in their mind and this is a
superficial view of my point, like why some of these
Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain,
but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from
those cultural malouse they're not. These people don't represent a
martial race in the way we think of like the
Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like
military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh,
whether it's the coute is it? You know the quote
of Adalgo kind of like we're large, is it? You
know that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism.
I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually
quite fascinating, you know. But the you see, this is
some degree in France too, but in the Iberian cultures
it's more pronounced. But the military heads had an outsized
role in Chile, you know, like it did in Spain,
like it didn't Portugal, like it does in Italy or
it didn't Italy. Okay, this is a fact. There was
a there was a culture into itself. Okay, Now there
is a Chile. As I just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography.
It's always successful potential encirclement by rival states in the
north and to the east. So it's institutional orientation of
its armed forces was always on the possibility of fighting
a multi front war. Now who executive does that sound like?
That sounds exactly like the Prussians and what gave rise
to the staff system, which you know, ultimately every modern
army imitates. But there was going to this fact even
before the Chilean military modernized, you know, in the in
the wake of you know, the the Great War and
what have you. There's always certain there there's always an
understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean army, in particularly
the army had to be built around a kind of
cadre structure, you know, where some version of mission oriented
tactics that had to be cultivated. You know, they're like,
you know, anybody in a leadership role from like NCO
upward would have to exhibit you know, a superior training
efficiency motivation. You know, basically man for man be better
than the enemy, okay, because again Chile was was basically
always facing a kind of like on Schleief and quagmire,
if that makes any sense. And there's certain anthropological factors too,
of a of a more kind of cultural nature, okay,
Like the the Chilean army was very, very very Catholic.
The background of Pinochet himself as well as Admiral Marino
Jose Todebo Merino Castro, they were the two most important
figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front, but this
was you know, rule by a military committee basically, and
uh not, Marino was a It was kind of the
brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was a
very intelligent man, as we'll see, but Admirbles tend to
be like a cut above in terms of intellectual capabilities
and organizational skills and things. But they both these men
kind of came to define. They were both like exemplars
of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so,
and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in
the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet went
into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter,
like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us,
you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions
and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing
the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of
all of all of the entire choir, you know, where
we're literally like Christian warriors, you know. And pinisiate believe
that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't
just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you
know shore up. Uh. His is his public image or something,
you know, And even even if he'd wanted to like,
that's not the way he'd go about it. I mean,
even even then when there was you know, kind of
a Catholic moment owing to the only only a certain
certain things related to the Cold War and in the
situation in Northern Ireland and other stuff. But in the
event after World War Two, obviously people you know think
about they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these
Latin American states you know, taking up with America in
uh for you know, for out a strategic convenience as
well as going to the you know kind of the
kind of pentagons like outsized influent. It's only to them
on Roe doctrine and other things, and it's kind of
like historical variables, you know, plus the fact that direct
capital subsidies were always coveted, you know, by these countries.
You know, even though these states weren't ruined by World
War Two, they were like goun touched, you know, there
was they still there was still short on development and
perpetually short on capital. But there was something superficial about
this on the side of uh, these states who were
coveting American patronage, like US military influence never really took
in Latin America. You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras,
El Salvador, all these all these states where you know
that America, all these states that basically America set up
things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military
and independence with like US military influence never overwhelmed the
kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know,
there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout
you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially,
but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know
what we're talking about like the efforts of you know,
the American successive American regimes to kind of you know
cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American
you know, like military type regimes it uh and the
you know, the and even uh even in terms of
professional development and things like all modern armies need to
be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know,
relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that
very much like like a very like in Chile as
well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent
class within the army developed, but beyond that, the kind
of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional culture
of America like didn't really take there, you know, Like
now now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile there's
a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from immigrant
backgrounds now against a Chile. Those immigrants were German, they
were English, they were Italian, they were French, they were Syrian,
they were Croatian. That's why when you look at like
a roster of of the Chilean officer corps, like first
of all, it's a bunch of like white and kind
of like Arab or like you know, Italian looking guys.
And they've got like European surnames, you know, so you've
you've quite literally got this kind of European and europe
and europe adjacent officer or in a country that's you know,
frankly majority mixed race, you know. So it's you're talking
about like literally like a culture within it, within a
broader culture, you know, not just of an institutional sort,
but of you know, an actual you know, like like
like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sort, rather like categorically like, uh,
there were two German speaking Lutherans on h On uh
in the junta. It was uh Fernando Matthai uh, the
Air force commander and Rodolpho Strange, who was the chief
and National police something there you go. And uh, A
lot of these immigrant families, if they weren't moneyed, you know,
like they they encouraged their sons to become military officers
because that was really the way, that was the only
way to get clout if you weren't part of the
national majority, you know. The Uh. Now, of course, the
Marxist view, which has faded somewhat obviously it's the cold war.
But it's kind of like this, it's kind of like
this cockroach that won't die. It just like emerges again
and again and and it doesn't help that like Howard
is in it kind of as like new life now
in US academia. But most scholars, even most military sociologists,
they're tainted some of this idea that like, you know,
look like South American soldiers, like you know, from the
officer corps on down, you know, to the end level
of n c o s. They just represented there. They
were basically like mercenaries who like represent the interests of
global capitalism, like backed up by the Pentagon, you know,
and they and they were like basically like the security
force that techno creits and and uh and and and
you know and in factory owners you know, and you know,
they're they're they're raised on detros, destroyed left wing politics.
You don't empower these techno creats who can facilitate, you know,
the the assimilation of these countries like into the globalist structure,
like that doesn't really make any sense, okay, And like
it doesn't in the case like a real lack of
understanding of kind of human motivations and what attracts people
to you know, kind of the institutional trappings of like
heritage and ritual and stuff like nobody a bunch of
a bunch of salvad orient National police types and a
bunch of Chilean officers weren't just like pretending to be
Catholic because they're like they were worried about their public image,
you know, and they weren't. They weren't goose stepping around
the parade deck because they thought that that would make people.
They thought that they thought that that would like help
their image. Okay, I mean like it's it's not you know,
and plus the kind of stuff that you know, as
we'll see, you know, guys like Pinochet, you know these
This was not a situation like with Zelenski, where uh
you know, some sort of crist I mean, you couldn't
really have a Zelensky situation in the Cold War. But
my point is not it's not like it's not like Pinochet.
It was like pocketing a bunch of money and him
in his general as well, getting rich and picking up
teenage mistresses and like ripping around in Mercedes and in
the streets of uh, you know, Santiago or whatever, you know, it.
These guys lived almost some anastic life, you know, like
they they didn't they didn't live in poverty, but they
you know, they did they didn't. They didn't have me
they didn't have means, you know, like even uh like
Pinochet prior to prior to the junta and even he
he basically like lived like a pauper or it didn't
really own anything, you know, something this idea that this
idea that you know, oh well, all these all these
kinds of weird I mean not weird in a punitive way,
but all these unusual let me let let's let's let's
employ that the scriptor this kind of like unusual features
a Latin American military life, that somehow these were just
like super structural trappings, you know, that kind of like
hid what amount to do a literally mercenary ethos like
that's this is like nonsense. Now what uh what was
we we? You know, we we got into the fact
that America didn't really put a lasting stamp on the
on the Latin American military culture generally and specifically Chilean
military life. But what did well after the uh, after
the War the Pacific, you know, which we talked about
a minute ago, which ended in eighteen eighty four. The
president uh Do Mingo Santa Maria. He realized that the
army needed to modernize and reoranize itself in the model
of a European army. They basically out fought Peru and Bolivia,
you know, but it uh they you know, the world
was changing and he and the army was still low
tech like basically with carry the day was again like
a very game officer corps, you know, that was and
cod evn CIOs the rint of missionary and tactics and frankly,
you know, just a lot of a lot of a
lot of men who are very tough and very hungry
for prestige and uh and to serve the fatherland. But
what uh, what what the Chilean has decided on They
fixed their sites in Germany, who they viewed as uh,
you know, kind of like the zenith of of of
a military prowess, you know. And and then that's kind
of when German cloud was at it was added zenith.
I would say, okay, the uh, the Chilean regime, it
was it was already familiar with Germans as a people,
like in the south of the country. Basically the German
colonization down there, like it it led to tremendous capital development,
you know, and the uh, there's basically a sense of like, well,
what can't these people do, you know, like it, uh,
we we want to cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway,
because you know, they're like we basically like we need
these people. You know. It's like a shot in the
arm of our the entire paradigm of national development. You know.
The embassy in Berlin, the Chilean embassy in Berlin was
in the charge of a guy named Guermo Mata. He
contacted the German military directly. He apparently had some kind
of good rapport with Marshall von Molt, you know, who
was uh like a heavy heavy personage and he uh
he was ultimately uh he was ultimately put uh put
in touch for the man named Emil Corner, who was
an artillery captain Opprussian and he was stationed at the
Artillery and Engineering School of Charlottenburg. So basically he had
a background minus the calorie experience like blackjack person. You know,
this is like exact the kind of man you want,
you know, if you're looking for like a single man
you know, uh of a middle level officer rank to
bring your forces up to par you know it. They
really kind of struck gold of them. The guy was
also like a big war hero, you know. He Uh
he signed on for a five year work agreement with
Chile AIDS and he basically the Chileans told him, like,
you know, basically they turn our forest into the Prussian Army. Okay,
and after becoming a Chilean officer himself corner sort of
the armies inspector general for a decade from until nineteen ten. Okay.
So the army that the army that Pinechet joined joined
in nineteen thirty three, okay, suspicious year, right, and uh,
basically this army had just been like restructured and the
kind of like the Prussian Army of Latin America. Okay,
it was a total leader of an institution then. Uh
than that that that was you know, people entered, you know,
like a generation earlier, you know that like Pinochet's father
like you know, would have would have encountered. Penichet was born. Uh,
he was born in November nineteen November twenty fifth, nineteen
nineteen fifteen. He was the descendant of Breton immigrants and
uh and Basques. His bast carritage was maternal. The family
had been in Chile since the seventeenth century. The Breton
immigrants were recent. But that's uh, that's a very interesting
category at least I think so Penche always wanted to
be a soldier. His great uncle was a veteran of
the War of the Pacific. His uh, you know, his
his godfather told him about you know, uh, serving in
the French army in World War One. Eventually his father
kind of like relented, even though he wanted him to
study medicine, you know, and pursue a more kind of
traditional path the cloud because like Pinochet's family was well off,
you know, they weren't. They weren't people who needed, you know,
a military officers son to enjoy upward mobility, and uh,
what was common, uh, what was common among his coterie
of officers, including you know, historians have taken the oral
histories of these guys who came of age when Pinochet did,
and there's actually a fair amount of like these in
conflict literature on this. You know, I'm not not necessarily
friendly variant, but it's it's pretty value neutral. But these guys,
it wasn't just pinish it. He wasn't just kind of
like romantic dream or outlier like the officers of that
generation pretty much to a man, they talked about Catholicism
and a childhood fascination with with like military heroes, you know,
and like the discipline of you know these you know
these uh the you know these these officers who were
you know who in in like Prussian uniforms, you know,
but like flawless like parade drill and things like that.
You know, like this is basically like any like any
kid of like European stock, like European or Arab or
like you know, adjacent stock in Chile, Like this is
what he wanted to be, you know, Like they can't
really be overstated. Like Robert O'Kelly, who is Pinechet's economics minister,
you know, and again, uh, you know, a guy of
European pedigree. His grandfather was a was a navy man
in the world of Pacific, like he said, like in
his biography, it never is autobiography, it never it never
occurred to me to be anything else than a sailor, Like,
without a doubt, the navy is a vocation, like the priesthood,
not everybody is called to be tied to the post.
Like that's what these guys looked at it again and
you know like where the where the where they where
the vanguard of the fatherland and where you know and
we're and we're you know where they where? The church militant.
You know, that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural
identitarian variables. You know, the uh and there was ah
the army uh in there a a uh even even
when even when a military draft is implemented, pursue it
to the you know, twentieth century reforms like the way
like army literature like they're like recruiting literature at the
time and kind of like they're they're sort of you know,
after a these like kind of like after action what
amounts a kind of like these kind of like romantic
novels of like the Daring do of of Officers and
there were the Pacific but it's kind of like dressed
up as like after action reports. Like it was like
all like the theme that is like on the nose,
like through all this stuff is uh. You know that
you know, being a soldier is it's it's it's different
than any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to
the fatherland, you know, like a like a monk gives
his life to the church, you know. And it's it's
not that that that's unique, it's uniquely Catholic. It's like
you need, it's both uniquely Prussian and uniquely Catholic, which is,
you know, a collision of uh of opposing tendencies. But
you know that's uh that there's there's a syncreticism. There's
a syncretism there that's really interesting. But the uh there
it also something and this was again like another Prussian
tendency that was brought to bear. There's a really strong
devotion to continual study of warfare that uh. Pinochet said that,
you know, he first started reading when he got to
the military. His first reading assignment was the Rebellion of
the Master it is or the Revolt of the Master
it is by they were taking guess it's and a
lot of friends of ours will be familiar with it.
And the Gallic War was by Caesar. After that he
became this bibliophile. Penichet when he died went to approximately
fifty five thousand books like many of which were rare
and one of a kind. So he was a he
was another like man of books. That makes me feel
a bit better about my own book hoarding. Frankly, now
here's get into kind of like the nitty gritty of
what created this, you know, kind of irreparable divide between
you know, civil society and the Chilean army. You know what,
it wasn't just the kind of factors we talked about
a moment ago of an identitarian sort, but very very
few military personnel actually voted in elections in Chile, even
though they were technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but
it was considered unseemly. You know, soldiers aren't supposed to
be political, and you know, not just because they're they're
supposed to serve you know, the fatherland first and foremost
and not not discreet you know, political factions or or
interests they're in. But it's also like it's it's it's viewed.
They viewed it as like beneath them, you know, particularly
consider the kind of elitist and and you know, uh
monastic sort of id like self concept these men had.
And also the uh when the when the draft was? Uh?
When when the conscript? When the when the conscription regime
was implemented, you know, uh, the like the new conscripts.
I couldn't vote, you know, because they weren't they weren't,
they weren't twenty one.
Speaker 1: What's interesting I saw an interview with Michael Flynn, I
think Patrick med David was interviewing, and Michael Flynn said
the same thing he said when I was in I
never voted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And it's it's really dysfunctional. I mean,
I mean, the US military is like is like as
awful as the rest of the fucking regime. But it's
it's really really really dysfunctional. It's on its own face
for you to have you know, any like when you're
talking aout the officer corp of the enlicited ranks, did
it you know, be like committed to some you know
to some like electoral position. Yeah, you know it's some
people can tell me, I don't know what I'm talking about.
You know, you know what pre servers fook you for
basing Like I I know what I'm talking about in
this regard. Okay, I I Am not gonna argue the
point because it's obvious, but the it uh considering uh,
considering the size of that of Chile's electorate and the
number of commission and noncommissioned officers and the forearmed services
taken together, and this is both politically and statistically significant.
Like military votes, they're like if if if I'm listening
to an authors had voted in appreciable numbers, it may
not have decided any any any and you know, any
presidential contest one or the other. But relatively but relatively
small pluralities decided national elections regularly in Chile, and particularly
in nineteen fifty eight, in nineteen seventy where uh, something
like thirty nine thousand votes, you know, like like we're
what put the winning candidate over? You know, it's the
uh and also too like it was it was it
was it was against the law. It was a literally,
it was literally a crime for you know that would
available to court martial to protest, you know. Uh. And
that was a pretty that was a pretty widely that's
pretty that's pretty loosely interpreted. Okay, I mean anybody, you know,
a man coulda be brought up on charges and a
failed to courts martial, you know, not just for joining
you know, some not just like throwing bricks in the
street at you know it a cap with or whatever.
But just if you associated with the parties that were
considered to be, you know, have a platform that tended
towards you know, trying to have this credit the political process,
you know, based on ideological commitments or you know, associating
with parties who's you know do his tink members you know,
had said things that impe impugned the honor of the
fatherland like this is this is not something they would
have fuck with. Okay, like even even more they inclined
and they weren't and uh pinichet to I mean starting
a service, you know, quite literally in nineteen thirty three,
there was even greater kind of technical aptitude demanded by
new officers, especially in the Navy and the Air Force,
but I mean also in the army, particularly as regards
command and control, you know, the UH. So as these
officers became more world leagues, they had to be like
they'd send them they'd be sent to you know, they'd
be sent to UH, Africa, Asia, Europe, other places in
Latin America, you know, to as inn liaison capacity and
to like learn from other militaries and like as these
guys developed you know, linguistic attitudes for foreign languages as
they literally saw the rest of the world, you know,
as they talked to you know, they they talked to
Wehrmacht officers, you know, they talk to you know, French officers,
they talk to guys you know, like serving uh In
uh In you know, in Mexico close to the American
border or whatever. Like, they developed a worldly perspective, and
they came to understand you know, as time went on,
they you know, they came to they came to understand
the Cold War, you know, and they developed an idea
of like where Chile featured into that, you know, by
the Pinochet era. Like It's what I'm getting is that
these weren't just like a bunch of provincial roots or something,
or like we're trying to turn back the clock or whatever.
And they weren't just you know, mercenaries for hire in
the service of you know, basically acting like I think
like you know, like like like pinkertons on steroids, you know,
beat down or calc trent like labor types. You know,
they they developed an understanding of like Veldt politique and
where Latin America featured into that equation, you know, and
this brings us to what was insidious about Alende. Okay,
Sauter Orlande in the nineteen sixties was a very busy boy. Okay,
his schedule tookhim to North Korea, North Vietnam. In East Germany,
Allende believed that the DDR was his best bet in
terms of identifying a patron the which is very interesting,
and the DDR it wasn't just the spear point of
Warsaw pack like the National volks Army wasn't just a
spear point of Warsaw Pact. And not only was East
Germany kind of like the crown jewel of like this
the Stalinist satellite states. East Germany practiced the kind of
world politique in a way that the Cubans did, but
like a little bit more sophisticated. Even like there's these
Germans Angola, there was East Germans in Yemen which became
South Yemen. There's these Germans uh in Ethiopia, Eritrea, there's
East Germans on Grenada. When you know, the US Army
assaulted Grenado in eighty three for a for what I'm
wanted to do, a rump state of twenty million people
and a regime that was constantly uh dealing with an
existential threat on its inner border. Like literally like these
guys were remarkably active in uh In, in waging the
Cold War and in a in like a direct action
capacity you know, to say nothing like the bottom minehoff Gang,
to say nothing of you know, uh them bank rolling
in train the popular Front of liberations in Palestine, Like
it's remarkable. But Allende knew this. Okay, In East Berlin,
Aline met with the party secretary general and de facto
you know, head of State Walter Ubricht, who preceded Honiker
from forty nine to seventy one. Ubricht was General Secretary
and then he was under cremoniously sideline in favor of
Honiker from nineteen seventy one until the end. But uh
he u Ubricht put him in direct content with Hermann Akson,
who was who was the Central Committee Secretary for a
national relations the equivalent of the foreign minister. Okay, action's
assignment for the duration of his tenure, particularly in the
sixties and seventies, he was the function as a liaison
with communist parties throughout the world, you know, and and
basically this is the stuff that smacks of you know
like the old days the Communist International, you know, which
U with Stalin, you know, put an end to by
Dick Todd and and turned into common form. But it's
but but it goes to show you how uh, how
these this these things never really went away. You know,
they developed a certain operational sophistication and and kind of
institutionalization and and and kind of and kind of a
streamline operational set of operational tendencies. But it you know,
they they remained the same beast of prey, but with
different slightly different stripes it uh as it were. But uh,
whether or Lending met with the Stazi directly and Eric Milk,
it's not known, but I imagine he would have. Okay,
Eric Milk was uh he was in direct content with
Daniel Ortega, with uh, with Kadafi, with Minjitsu with uh
you know all these all these uh, all these proxy
all these proxy elements that uh, the Warsaw Pact was
was uh, you know, directly supporting and Shtazi men. Uh.
Their role was not just as uh you know, policeman
and as espionage espionage agents. They had a role that
we considered it more kind of the more suggestive of
special Operations Command. It's complicated, but uh, the the East
Berlin basically treated accents recommendations like they came from on high. Okay,
he was that good. I think it was kind of
like a I think kind of I think of this
kind of it's kind of like a a red crowd
version of George Kennon, like legit, I mean, I have,
like all respect, A lot of these d d R
functionaries were damn impressive. Definitely the best that the worst
up Peck produced. Of course, what Alinda was doing didn't
go unnoticed. C I a Defense Intelligence CIA at that time.
It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it
was still uh it was still primarily like the eyes
and ears of of American intelligence behind the East blot,
behind the Berlin Wall, you know. So CI they took
notice immediately when allendi was started popping up in East Berlin.
Uh Nixon, Uh Nixon, uh said the Kissinger. He's like, look,
you know this Alandi's not he's not some he's not
some simple farmer or some starry eyed you know, uh,
just uh you know, self styled uh you know, agrarian revolutionary,
like this guy is serious, you know, and he's he's
not what you know, American liberals are presenting him as
and he's not benign, you know, and Kusinger obviously agreed.
I mean, I you know it. Uh. The uh also
is the fact chill the Chilean the Chilean Communist Party
was uh. It was by far the largest and best
organized in South America, Okay, And that's one of the things.
That's one of the things that made it appealing to
the d d R. And also we were talking about
the Germans and the wonderful things they did for Chile.
Well some of those Germans were unfortunately communists, and they
you know, we're building up political architecture on the other side,
you know, and this was, uh, this is very much
a problem, it uh. I mean from a geopolitical view,
I mean, think about that, like the cone of Latin
America just becoming communists, you know, or uh, all of
Latin America falling and maybe Brazil remaining kind of in
this garrison siege capacity. I mean that that changes everything,
you know. And like I've always said, like I'm always saying,
it didn't matter that these marsais Lands regimes are totally
dysfunctional and created a created economies of shortage. There's all
kinds of governments that don't really work, right that that
Shambalaine perpetuity. It was very possible. It was not at
all the stuff of kind of like fever dream nightmare
fantasies to imagine a world where post aton like the
entire the entire like developing world or colored world goes
red like kind of the remaining like American friendly regimes
outside of UH, Northern Europe and Japan, you know, just
like eventually just kind of like succumb and fall and
America becomes kind of just like to say, Garrison state,
like surrounded by like a hostile communist world like that
very easily could have come about, Okay, and that that
would be a very dangerous planet. You know, we could
argue at some or we can discuss at some point
whether that's preferable or not to the current situation. But
it that's Monday morning quarterback, and in the epoch of
you know, say nineteen seventy three, you know, seventy four
to seventy five, this was absolutely a very real possibility. Okay.
Now the minute, the minute, the moment A Landy was
elected president Chile, UH, the East German regime like through
Stazi support behind him. Okay, within a couple of weeks.
It doesn't like COVID operation. The Grilla warfare specialists who
were from the Stasi, they were dispatched a Sandiago and
there diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Block
UH special operations capable elements, including from Czechoslovakia and and
and then the Soviet Union itself and all probability. They
set up a camp near Valparaiso. UH. The Soviets furnished weapons,
prefabricated huts. They like they literally just set up this
kind of like grilla warfare school, like bam, you know,
like it's like, uh, it's like if you buy like
a McDonald's franchise. It's like you buy like a you
buy you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan
and they show up and it's just like bam, you know,
here's here's like your franchise literature. Here's a buy Klashnik
coughs you here's something like snazzy freaking uh you know,
uh uniforms, and you know, and here's here's some you know,
like here's something like enameled like red star pins for
your freaking cap and like you're good to go, you know,
like go go, go, go go capitalists. But the UH
and Milk actually wrote he Milk would UH. He'd sent
out these what amounts to enter off his memos to
every directorate of the Stazi periodically, and on December eighteenth,
nineteen seventy two, he said, Uh, you know, the CHECKS
or the d DR will will welcome with enthusiasm and
happiness the great victory of the National Celerity movement for
obtaining the freedom of the Secondary General or the Communist Party.
Your friend and comrade Lewis Corvellon. Like Corvellon was some
guy who'd been like in prison in Chile. I can't
remember exactly what the and Milk would call. He called
UH Ministry for State Security Officers, like checkis you know,
because there's a callback to his days as a as
an nkv D hitter, you know, during during UH the
war in Spain and later the UH later UH the
Second World War. But my point is like he was
attuned like like Chile was very much like a key
like theater in his mind. Okay, That's why he was
That's why he was UH like braying about you know,
these these UH, these kind of like like like little
chess moves in Chile, like in Blu of other theaters.
The UH, the Stasi set set to work UH in Chile,
UH targeting UH, you know, target targeting Pinochet loyalists and
what have you, you know, essentially essentially creating like a
mirror of you know, in security terms, you know, like
this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't
Allende wasn't in the driver's seat long enough for UH
Santiago to become you know, like a giant a giant
version of of of East Berlin. But I think I
mentioned the camera for we were on here or not?
But like Ali North mentioned that when he was UH
when he traveled to UH, when he traveled in Nicaragua
in nineteen eighty three or eighty four, like when when
he himself was under diplomatic cover, like he relaid back
by like telex that you know, like Monagua now is
like it's like a scale model of of Checkpoint Charlie,
the inner German border, you know, and it now what
what happened during Pinochet's rain or like the Junta's reign
Chile deteriorated into what something comparable to the years of lead.
In Italy, Okay, there's a leftist urban guerrilla terror groups.
They began, uh, a campaign of bombings, assassinations, you know,
exactly the kind of bread and butter stuff that the
Shazi taught people to do. You know, there was a
that there's bombs exploding in Santiago, in Vienna, Del mar In,
uh in all the major you know kind of commercial
hubs and larger towns at Chile. You know, they were
they were, they were, they were. They were targeting supermarkets, buses,
government offices, you know, like shopping centers, you know, just
like indiscriminately, like blowing people to hell. You know. This
really ramped up in Earnest by the eighties, which is interesting.
Between ninet eighty three and nineteen eighty six, there's more
than a thousand bombings attributed to the Clandestine Communist Front
and uh, this group in the color itself, the Revolutionary Movement,
which is probably an umbrella of it, was probably like
a like numerous like nonstate actors like under this kind
of like rubric, you know, but because it may like
they uh, they uh, a total of twenty one national
police and military casualties were attributed to them in just
four years. When nineteen eighty four nineteen eighty eight, East
Germany contributed six million, seven or ninety five thousand and
fifteen dollars to the Chilean Communist Party, that's a huge
sum for forty years ago. And this is East Germany
doing it. So they're basically just like they're they're they're
throwing everything in their cash reser is basically that they've
availed for, you know, foreign operations of a military sort.
They're they're just like throwing this into the at their
proxies in Chile. You know, I mean this was a
this is a this is a highly valued battle theater. Okay,
the U the most serious incident I guess of a
in terms of potential harm, and the most kind of
spectacular not not not let like literally spectacular in terms
of the spectacle that I created, not spectacular like it's mourderful.
So third seven, nineteen eighty six, UH guerrilla is ambushed
Pinochet's motorcade. Your Santiago pener State survived. He didn't he
didn't take any any lad but uh five members of
his escort were killed. Ten people were wounded. The uh.
It was basically like a comic cozingkind of attack. Twelve
gunmen from calling themselves the Manuel where at Riga's Revolutionary Front,
like simply assaulted with with automatic weapons and grenades. There
was a there was never a trial. The government ever
renounced in the arrest. Presumably these men those we're not
killed at the scene. We're running down and and and
and and and done away with Eventually. Uh. There were
some including uh including Buro Amiida, you know who UH
broke with the Communists completely owing to uh what he
claimed was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of
the East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure
he I think he probably believed this, you know, He's like,
I came to realize if if you know what was
then my side one, you know, we we didn't up
no better than the East Germans and what have you.
And he broke with Communism and he made he managed
to convince everybody, including Pinochet's people that he uh that
this was like a genuine conversion, and he went on
he went on to in post pinch Chile to be
a like a heavy percentage. But and he actually uh
his he was posted as uh as an ambassador in Moscow.
I don't know if it was like like like who's
in humor or what, but the it uh, you know,
and the and the list goes on and on of
uh these you know, communist attacks. Uh. Even after Pinochet
stepped down, you know, these these kinds of attacks continued.
There's one, I mean not in the same kind of
earnest but uh, some of these revolutionary types they they
there's like this crazy in nineteen eighty six, the Semer
ninety six they escaped, Uh, they escaped from the yard
of the of this of this political prison they were
held in, like with the help of these of these
these original IRA operatives, like just like a helicopter like
pulled them off the yard, just like you know, stuff
like seeing some fucking like John Wick or Jason Bourne
movie or something. But the you know, the and you know,
not not for nothing either, like uh, I mean maybe
maybe people don't know this, like Honaker Uh Eric Honecker
was buried. He was buried in Chile like after he
died and they laid the d d R flag on
his coffin and everything, you know, like it's this was
like this idea that you know the Ollendia regime. They
were just these like kind of like social democrats you know,
who you know, just wanted to, you know, kind of
like give an alternative system a chance, and and these fascists,
you know, just just just destroyed that potentiality, you know.
I mean it was it was real war, Okay. I mean,
there's no choice about it. And if people want to,
I'm sure very nasty things happened to people who were
suspected of being Communists or Commuy sympathizers. But I mean,
what do people want, Like war is a terrible thing,
you know, and you can't you can't only tell one
side of these stories, you know. I mean, I know
the Stazi was doing pretty nasty things to people at
the same time, and the Stazi were agents of a
foreign government who were trying to, you know, determine the
political fate of a of a sovereign country. So that's
that's about all I got for today. We can deep
dive more into I mean there's a lot here, man, Frankly,
I mean we can we can deep dive more into,
like the personage of Pinichet if you want, when I
get back from my trip. But that you know, I
kind of want to give an overview of the situation
as it were, as it was, you know, politically and
strategically and culturally and everything else. I hope I've accomplished
that well.
Speaker 1: One of the things that people bring up now because
of a Netflix mini series called A Sinister Sect, there
was a German colony called the Colonia Dignity DoD that
is accused of doing all sorts of like acts of torture.
People now say p Ando Chein knows that there were
active child molesters operating in the country and he would
protect them everything. I mean, I hear people I know
saying these kind of things, and when you start deep
diving into it, it's like, yeah, I mean, the guy
was at war the whole time he was in office,
and you know, to say that he was aware of
all these things, and you know he just allowed him
to happen, But.
Speaker 2: It's like, why would that even It's like every the
story always changed. I remember I remember when I was
in college and this guy was going around and he
wrote a couple of books. He was some journal He
was claiming that at the soccer stadium Pinochet's loyalists, they'd
sit around watching people be beheaded and shear it, and
they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them
and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium.
I mean, that's like gross for all kinds of reasons,
but that that's that's so like fucking weird. That's just
like not ship that happens. You know, it's like why
and place? It's like who who? Like, like what's the
source for this? Like guys who were watching this like
came back and told you, like what, Like I it's
always like something sexually perverted and just like really really
really gross and just like outlandish, like it's you know,
the like for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become
this like fixation of theirs, you know, like uh, like
it's really weird. You know, it's like why why not?
Uh why not Sellizar, Like why not straws Nerd? Like
why not? Uh? Prone Like why why Pinochet? Like you know,
Pinochet was kind of like what you see is what
you get, you know, like he was, uh, you know,
he's very much like I mean, he was very much
like we talked about. He was very much like a
military officer with the kind of Prussian mold who was
also like a very very very like pious kind of
warrior catholic. I mean that's there's not I mean there's
not that there's not really a lot there. I mean
there's a lot there, but I mean, you know, not
not in terms of you know, these these kinds of
like deep dark and dirty secrets. And plus it's also
too like the kind of there's a been noality the
kind of horrible stuff that goes on at war. It's
not like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo
Nazi colony of child molesters who are like experimenting with
people's DNA and like a soccer stadium where guys like
practice beast reality. But it's not that's that's something from
like the Warped Mind to somebody who like watches too
much Henti or something, you know, like I it really is,
you know, it's like but it's like for years, you know,
people tell me that that Earnest like that Nazis they'd
like take people's skin off and if they at tattoos,
they'd make it into lamp shades and like show their friends.
So it's like why would anybody do that? So you're
basically saying that like the Germans are like a bunch
of Jeffrey Dahmers, Like like why why would they even
oc hurt anybody? You know, like uh, beyond the fact
that it's like okay, like where you're getting this information
and like who's like telling this to people? Like oh, hey,
you know what I did today? Like I I like
I found out with these childlisting Germans and then like
one of the stadium where like this chip got like
raped by dogs. It was awesome. I mean like like
where where's this coming from? Like who's just closing these things?
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well hit up some plugs and we'll
let on this.
Speaker 2: For sure. Uh. You can find me at Real Thomas
seven seven seven that substack dot com. You can find
me on Twitter x real Capital r E L Underscore
number seven H one S seven seven seven. I'm going
to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content for
Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number seven
HM as space TV and I think people will appreciate
what I'm going to be dropping there. And by the
end of the month, season two with a Mind Phaser
podcast is going to drop and at which point all
season one content is going to be free, so be
able to access everything from season one and all special
edition content for free, and subscripsion of season two is
only physically five dollars a month, and that's like, that's
as low as I can go and still remain and
still not eat a loss. So like, unless you're a hobo,
you can afford that. So and I'll make it worth
your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free stuff too.
That is uh, that is like a.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure I echo everyone
else when I say this, safe travels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a
few days.
Speaker 1: Thank you.