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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekiana Show

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doing a little uh timely one here. We're gonna be

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releasing this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody, some

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people would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode,

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but no, this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the

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coup in Chile, and uh, I want to have Thomas

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on to give his opinion of what it was and

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how it went down and how it benefited the right.

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Speaker 2: That sound good, I mean yeah, I mean we I

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mean I mainly want to dismantle misconceptions as well as

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out note confabulations about the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political,

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and historical, because all these things play into the equation.

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You know, I'm not just being a historical researcher who's

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insane waiting his own fetishes for anthropological data into this discussion.

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It really is significant in a way in the case

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of Chile, in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular.

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We're going to talk about what happened there and why

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it became such a critical Cold War battle theater. And

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that's the way to understand this. That's the way to

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understand this that's the way to understand the totality of

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what became Operation Condor. That's the way to understand the

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situation in Argentina, which was a lot more murky and

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conspiratorial than that at Chile. I mean that weren't the

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discussion all onto itself, but particularly the the you know

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what developed in Nicaragua and l Salvador and uh Granada

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was key as well in the final phase of the

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Cold War, and people they don't fully understand. At the time,

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people generally did. It's interesting how they kind of tortured rationales.

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People would resort to these Peter Arnett types, and even

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Oliver Stone who made a pretty negative partisan movie about

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you know, Central America. I think it was actually called Salvador.

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I don't know how these people could rationalize. I mean,

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I know how they did superficially, I mean I was

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alive during the time, but how they could sort of

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redact in their own mind the fact that Central and

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South America, you know, maybe we refer to as Latin

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America in total, was an active battle space in the

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final phase of the Cold War, and it was a

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truly critical battle space because not just in terms of

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American credibility VI theam Unro doctrine and things. But that

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would have rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw Packed was

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always disadvantaged by owing the you know, facts of geography

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and the fact that in that epoch the way four

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structures were, you know, owing to the technology the day

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it conferred a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it

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could strike you know, basically from you know, within critical

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range decapitation range. Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms

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a Soviet territory. But the and finally, and I'll bring

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it back to the discussion at hand in more precise terms,

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and the daytad Era, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw

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Pack and adjacent states, they were winning the Cold War.

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It in military terms, it didn't matter that Warsaw Pack

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was a basket case in terms of its internal situation.

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It didn't matter that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know,

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a crisis within the Kremline itself a leadership as you know,

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it's kind of aged gerontocracy, like literally died off. You know. Uh,

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America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, Uh, the

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significance of that, but decoupling Beijing from warsaw packed but

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that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously,

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and that led to in turn, you know, the America

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ended up backing the commun Rouge against the People's Army

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of Vietnam, you know, because the Khmune Rouge were China's proxy.

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So this prom so this three way proxy war developed,

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you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were

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victorious against Landol's forces, you know, between the Khmer Rouge

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and the People's Army of Vietnam. You know, the United

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the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the United

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States and the People's at China were nominally backing the

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bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam.

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The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental

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subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their Friendship

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Pact as a hedge against China. America responded, you know,

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by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and UH and

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in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know,

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and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the

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kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union

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at the time. You know that that's what caused them

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to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about,

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like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna

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the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States,

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and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought that

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Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially going to the

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loss of Iran. But also I mean that would you

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know Afghanistans with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan, and Kazakhstan

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was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean,

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that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear command and control.

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So I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent.

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What ended it? I mean it was the invasion of

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Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the

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Communists run the move on every continent and goal is

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another one, okay, And there was neither the political will

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nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force

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to enforce the Truman doctor and then come to the

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direct aid of these you know, friendly states under siege

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by Communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You

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know that the draft had ended, and the revolution of

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military affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented

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yet in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems

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and this command control technology like did exist, it just

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hadn't been integrated into you know, force structures and being

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in a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at

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a map in uh nineteen seventy three, again in military terms,

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the Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is

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an oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there

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was high hopes for it. You know, if used to

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talk about Argentina like it was going to be the

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United States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But

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you know, despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries,

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they're more European than they are like America or Canada.

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You know, Chile became a pretty major regional military power

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after what was called the War of the Pacific. This

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took place in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four. Chile

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fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and and

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one this kind of like uh, you know, like like

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like Prussian style like blitz Victory, okay, and acquired a

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lot of territory and a lot of clout, but obviously

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again owing to AH its situation on the cone of

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South America. I mean there's a strategic significance there regardless.

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You know, it's not like the South Atlantic, you know,

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and access to the South Atlantic and specifically the ability

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to engage you know, the US fleet in the Atlantic

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potentially you know, before it even you know, is able

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to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western hemisphere potentially.

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I mean, that was huge. But it's also you know,

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there's a there, there's there's there's something to the idea

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of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a fire that

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catches or some kind of virulent backless if you'll forgive

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the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true, and people

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are accepting that more and more now. Not not because

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they've taken on some kind of unutive view of commune

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in history or something, and not even that that's that's

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that's not even really in the contemplation. And most of

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these kind of like neuroscience types and you know, kind

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of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk about

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the way like memes become truly viral and like information

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it becomes viral. You know, that's kind of a narrow

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that's kind of a whittled down version of what the

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phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum uh

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is something that is a real thing. You know, it's

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the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for racial

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and cultural differences and you know, really uh really uh

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controlling for all variables suggesting true diversity. You know this

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this can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know,

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like as I've talked about with respect to Vietnam, and

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you know previously one of the ways that parts with

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people like Meersheimer, but this idea that you have this

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kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind of

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cloudset which on steroidsvie of warfare like well, you know,

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credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so long as

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you have you know, strategic forces and being to devastate

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your enemy. And there was no quote you know, key,

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there there's no essential interest in Vietnam. It didn't matter,

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you know, in the twentieth century, like wars weren't fought,

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you know, to control you know, access to rubber plantations,

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you know, or like you know, fur trade routes. Like

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Vietnam became World War three by proxy because like that's

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where the battle lines were drawn. Like that's where the

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Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's that's

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where Washington had to had to draw the line and respond.

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You know, it didn't matter that it was in Sou

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East Asia and there's not some quote key interests there

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according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy. So

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in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile, I

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mean there wasn't there wasn't there is beginning. If there wasn't,

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it didn't matter. You know, Uh, a communist revolution there

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would have, uh would have developed tremendous momentum that had

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profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even beyond

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you know, like the South American continent and into you know,

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Central and uh in North America. Even so, I don't

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think to keep in mind, now, what what was the

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situation in Chile generally, Like because this is important, it

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relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself and

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why they were such a test case and staunch resistance

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to communism and taking a cultural anthropologist. They used to

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write quite a bit about this, you know, why why

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some of these in their mind and this is a

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superficial view of my point, like why some of these

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Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain,

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but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from

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those cultural malouse they're not. These people don't represent a

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martial race in the way we think of like the

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Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like

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military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh,

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whether it's the coute is it? You know the quote

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of Adalgo kind of like we're large, is it? You

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know that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism.

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I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually

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quite fascinating, you know. But the you see, this is

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some degree in France too, but in the Iberian cultures

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it's more pronounced. But the military heads had an outsized

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role in Chile, you know, like it did in Spain,

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like it didn't Portugal, like it does in Italy or

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it didn't Italy. Okay, this is a fact. There was

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a there was a culture into itself. Okay, Now there

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is a Chile. As I just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography.

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It's always successful potential encirclement by rival states in the

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north and to the east. So it's institutional orientation of

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its armed forces was always on the possibility of fighting

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a multi front war. Now who executive does that sound like?

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That sounds exactly like the Prussians and what gave rise

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to the staff system, which you know, ultimately every modern

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army imitates. But there was going to this fact even

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before the Chilean military modernized, you know, in the in

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the wake of you know, the the Great War and

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what have you. There's always certain there there's always an

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understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean army, in particularly

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the army had to be built around a kind of

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cadre structure, you know, where some version of mission oriented

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tactics that had to be cultivated. You know, they're like,

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you know, anybody in a leadership role from like NCO

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upward would have to exhibit you know, a superior training

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efficiency motivation. You know, basically man for man be better

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than the enemy, okay, because again Chile was was basically

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always facing a kind of like on Schleief and quagmire,

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if that makes any sense. And there's certain anthropological factors too,

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of a of a more kind of cultural nature, okay,

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Like the the Chilean army was very, very very Catholic.

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The background of Pinochet himself as well as Admiral Marino

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Jose Todebo Merino Castro, they were the two most important

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figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front, but this

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was you know, rule by a military committee basically, and

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uh not, Marino was a It was kind of the

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brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was a

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very intelligent man, as we'll see, but Admirbles tend to

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be like a cut above in terms of intellectual capabilities

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and organizational skills and things. But they both these men

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kind of came to define. They were both like exemplars

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of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so,

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and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in

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the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet went

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into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter,

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like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us,

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you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions

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and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing

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the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of

236
00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:01,039
all of all of the entire choir, you know, where

237
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,880
we're literally like Christian warriors, you know. And pinisiate believe

238
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,759
that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't

239
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,119
just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you

240
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,839
know shore up. Uh. His is his public image or something,

241
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,759
you know, And even even if he'd wanted to like,

242
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,039
that's not the way he'd go about it. I mean,

243
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,319
even even then when there was you know, kind of

244
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:26,119
a Catholic moment owing to the only only a certain

245
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,119
certain things related to the Cold War and in the

246
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,640
situation in Northern Ireland and other stuff. But in the

247
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:38,920
event after World War Two, obviously people you know think

248
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:45,279
about they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these

249
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:51,640
Latin American states you know, taking up with America in

250
00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:56,000
uh for you know, for out a strategic convenience as

251
00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:57,400
well as going to the you know kind of the

252
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,519
kind of pentagons like outsized influent. It's only to them

253
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,319
on Roe doctrine and other things, and it's kind of

254
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:07,160
like historical variables, you know, plus the fact that direct

255
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:10,960
capital subsidies were always coveted, you know, by these countries.

256
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,160
You know, even though these states weren't ruined by World

257
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,720
War Two, they were like goun touched, you know, there

258
00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:19,079
was they still there was still short on development and

259
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,240
perpetually short on capital. But there was something superficial about

260
00:18:25,319 --> 00:18:29,119
this on the side of uh, these states who were

261
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,400
coveting American patronage, like US military influence never really took

262
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:47,559
in Latin America. You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras,

263
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:53,519
El Salvador, all these all these states where you know

264
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:55,880
that America, all these states that basically America set up

265
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,240
things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military

266
00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:01,559
and independence with like US military influence never overwhelmed the

267
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,039
kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know,

268
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:09,839
there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout

269
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,200
you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially,

270
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:18,160
but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know

271
00:19:19,519 --> 00:19:21,960
what we're talking about like the efforts of you know,

272
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,480
the American successive American regimes to kind of you know

273
00:19:25,599 --> 00:19:29,160
cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American

274
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:36,160
you know, like military type regimes it uh and the

275
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,119
you know, the and even uh even in terms of

276
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,559
professional development and things like all modern armies need to

277
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:49,839
be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know,

278
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:59,640
relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that

279
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,279
very much like like a very like in Chile as

280
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:11,000
well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent

281
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,240
class within the army developed, but beyond that, the kind

282
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,240
of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional culture

283
00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:22,640
of America like didn't really take there, you know, Like

284
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,160
now now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile there's

285
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,880
a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from immigrant

286
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,240
backgrounds now against a Chile. Those immigrants were German, they

287
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:37,160
were English, they were Italian, they were French, they were Syrian,

288
00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:41,680
they were Croatian. That's why when you look at like

289
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:46,720
a roster of of the Chilean officer corps, like first

290
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,039
of all, it's a bunch of like white and kind

291
00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:50,720
of like Arab or like you know, Italian looking guys.

292
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,200
And they've got like European surnames, you know, so you've

293
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,759
you've quite literally got this kind of European and europe

294
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,680
and europe adjacent officer or in a country that's you know,

295
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,400
frankly majority mixed race, you know. So it's you're talking

296
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,720
about like literally like a culture within it, within a

297
00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:12,839
broader culture, you know, not just of an institutional sort,

298
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,920
but of you know, an actual you know, like like

299
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:22,519
like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sort, rather like categorically like, uh,

300
00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:26,279
there were two German speaking Lutherans on h On uh

301
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:31,400
in the junta. It was uh Fernando Matthai uh, the

302
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,519
Air force commander and Rodolpho Strange, who was the chief

303
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:39,359
and National police something there you go. And uh, A

304
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,680
lot of these immigrant families, if they weren't moneyed, you know,

305
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,119
like they they encouraged their sons to become military officers

306
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,799
because that was really the way, that was the only

307
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:52,039
way to get clout if you weren't part of the

308
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,119
national majority, you know. The Uh. Now, of course, the

309
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:02,680
Marxist view, which has faded somewhat obviously it's the cold war.

310
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:05,960
But it's kind of like this, it's kind of like

311
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,160
this cockroach that won't die. It just like emerges again

312
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,920
and again and and it doesn't help that like Howard

313
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,319
is in it kind of as like new life now

314
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,920
in US academia. But most scholars, even most military sociologists,

315
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,759
they're tainted some of this idea that like, you know,

316
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,960
look like South American soldiers, like you know, from the

317
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,000
officer corps on down, you know, to the end level

318
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,640
of n c o s. They just represented there. They

319
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,279
were basically like mercenaries who like represent the interests of

320
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:39,599
global capitalism, like backed up by the Pentagon, you know,

321
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,480
and they and they were like basically like the security

322
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:44,759
force that techno creits and and uh and and and

323
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,279
you know and in factory owners you know, and you know,

324
00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:52,559
they're they're they're raised on detros, destroyed left wing politics.

325
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,599
You don't empower these techno creats who can facilitate, you know,

326
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,039
the the assimilation of these countries like into the globalist structure,

327
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,039
like that doesn't really make any sense, okay, And like

328
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,319
it doesn't in the case like a real lack of

329
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,319
understanding of kind of human motivations and what attracts people

330
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,160
to you know, kind of the institutional trappings of like

331
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:15,400
heritage and ritual and stuff like nobody a bunch of

332
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:19,480
a bunch of salvad orient National police types and a

333
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:21,680
bunch of Chilean officers weren't just like pretending to be

334
00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:24,640
Catholic because they're like they were worried about their public image,

335
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,960
you know, and they weren't. They weren't goose stepping around

336
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,880
the parade deck because they thought that that would make people.

337
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,079
They thought that they thought that that would like help

338
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,759
their image. Okay, I mean like it's it's not you know,

339
00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:38,519
and plus the kind of stuff that you know, as

340
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:42,440
we'll see, you know, guys like Pinochet, you know these

341
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:46,640
This was not a situation like with Zelenski, where uh

342
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,480
you know, some sort of crist I mean, you couldn't

343
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,359
really have a Zelensky situation in the Cold War. But

344
00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:54,759
my point is not it's not like it's not like Pinochet.

345
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:56,920
It was like pocketing a bunch of money and him

346
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,920
in his general as well, getting rich and picking up

347
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,519
teenage mistresses and like ripping around in Mercedes and in

348
00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:09,200
the streets of uh, you know, Santiago or whatever, you know, it.

349
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:13,079
These guys lived almost some anastic life, you know, like

350
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,559
they they didn't they didn't live in poverty, but they

351
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:17,559
you know, they did they didn't. They didn't have me

352
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:23,440
they didn't have means, you know, like even uh like

353
00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:27,440
Pinochet prior to prior to the junta and even he

354
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,720
he basically like lived like a pauper or it didn't

355
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,200
really own anything, you know, something this idea that this

356
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,920
idea that you know, oh well, all these all these

357
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,000
kinds of weird I mean not weird in a punitive way,

358
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:43,680
but all these unusual let me let let's let's let's

359
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,319
employ that the scriptor this kind of like unusual features

360
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,759
a Latin American military life, that somehow these were just

361
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:53,279
like super structural trappings, you know, that kind of like

362
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,920
hid what amount to do a literally mercenary ethos like

363
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:03,559
that's this is like nonsense. Now what uh what was

364
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,880
we we? You know, we we got into the fact

365
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,599
that America didn't really put a lasting stamp on the

366
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,160
on the Latin American military culture generally and specifically Chilean

367
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:23,319
military life. But what did well after the uh, after

368
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,640
the War the Pacific, you know, which we talked about

369
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,279
a minute ago, which ended in eighteen eighty four. The

370
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:35,240
president uh Do Mingo Santa Maria. He realized that the

371
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,920
army needed to modernize and reoranize itself in the model

372
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,880
of a European army. They basically out fought Peru and Bolivia,

373
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,680
you know, but it uh they you know, the world

374
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:46,799
was changing and he and the army was still low

375
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,480
tech like basically with carry the day was again like

376
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,720
a very game officer corps, you know, that was and

377
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,039
cod evn CIOs the rint of missionary and tactics and frankly,

378
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,039
you know, just a lot of a lot of a

379
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,119
lot of men who are very tough and very hungry

380
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:08,920
for prestige and uh and to serve the fatherland. But

381
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:13,920
what uh, what what the Chilean has decided on They

382
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,160
fixed their sites in Germany, who they viewed as uh,

383
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,200
you know, kind of like the zenith of of of

384
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:25,920
a military prowess, you know. And and then that's kind

385
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,480
of when German cloud was at it was added zenith.

386
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:36,359
I would say, okay, the uh, the Chilean regime, it

387
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,480
was it was already familiar with Germans as a people,

388
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,160
like in the south of the country. Basically the German

389
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,759
colonization down there, like it it led to tremendous capital development,

390
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,440
you know, and the uh, there's basically a sense of like, well,

391
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,200
what can't these people do, you know, like it, uh,

392
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,559
we we want to cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway,

393
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,720
because you know, they're like we basically like we need

394
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:03,160
these people. You know. It's like a shot in the

395
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:07,000
arm of our the entire paradigm of national development. You know.

396
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,240
The embassy in Berlin, the Chilean embassy in Berlin was

397
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:18,200
in the charge of a guy named Guermo Mata. He

398
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:23,279
contacted the German military directly. He apparently had some kind

399
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:26,839
of good rapport with Marshall von Molt, you know, who

400
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:33,519
was uh like a heavy heavy personage and he uh

401
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:38,680
he was ultimately uh he was ultimately put uh put

402
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,119
in touch for the man named Emil Corner, who was

403
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:48,880
an artillery captain Opprussian and he was stationed at the

404
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:53,359
Artillery and Engineering School of Charlottenburg. So basically he had

405
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,480
a background minus the calorie experience like blackjack person. You know,

406
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:00,599
this is like exact the kind of man you want,

407
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,119
you know, if you're looking for like a single man

408
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,200
you know, uh of a middle level officer rank to

409
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,680
bring your forces up to par you know it. They

410
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:16,000
really kind of struck gold of them. The guy was

411
00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:20,119
also like a big war hero, you know. He Uh

412
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:23,640
he signed on for a five year work agreement with

413
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:27,480
Chile AIDS and he basically the Chileans told him, like,

414
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,039
you know, basically they turn our forest into the Prussian Army. Okay,

415
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,759
and after becoming a Chilean officer himself corner sort of

416
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,880
the armies inspector general for a decade from until nineteen ten. Okay.

417
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,720
So the army that the army that Pinechet joined joined

418
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,799
in nineteen thirty three, okay, suspicious year, right, and uh,

419
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:55,160
basically this army had just been like restructured and the

420
00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,839
kind of like the Prussian Army of Latin America. Okay,

421
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,799
it was a total leader of an institution then. Uh

422
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,759
than that that that was you know, people entered, you know,

423
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,960
like a generation earlier, you know that like Pinochet's father

424
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:17,799
like you know, would have would have encountered. Penichet was born. Uh,

425
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,880
he was born in November nineteen November twenty fifth, nineteen

426
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:28,000
nineteen fifteen. He was the descendant of Breton immigrants and

427
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:34,079
uh and Basques. His bast carritage was maternal. The family

428
00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:38,359
had been in Chile since the seventeenth century. The Breton

429
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,440
immigrants were recent. But that's uh, that's a very interesting

430
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:48,000
category at least I think so Penche always wanted to

431
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,200
be a soldier. His great uncle was a veteran of

432
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:57,880
the War of the Pacific. His uh, you know, his

433
00:29:58,039 --> 00:30:00,960
his godfather told him about you know, uh, serving in

434
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,880
the French army in World War One. Eventually his father

435
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:08,160
kind of like relented, even though he wanted him to

436
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,160
study medicine, you know, and pursue a more kind of

437
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,079
traditional path the cloud because like Pinochet's family was well off,

438
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,799
you know, they weren't. They weren't people who needed, you know,

439
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:26,680
a military officers son to enjoy upward mobility, and uh,

440
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,519
what was common, uh, what was common among his coterie

441
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:35,480
of officers, including you know, historians have taken the oral

442
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,920
histories of these guys who came of age when Pinochet did,

443
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,440
and there's actually a fair amount of like these in

444
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:46,319
conflict literature on this. You know, I'm not not necessarily

445
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,079
friendly variant, but it's it's pretty value neutral. But these guys,

446
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:52,759
it wasn't just pinish it. He wasn't just kind of

447
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,599
like romantic dream or outlier like the officers of that

448
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,960
generation pretty much to a man, they talked about Catholicism

449
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:04,519
and a childhood fascination with with like military heroes, you know,

450
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:06,960
and like the discipline of you know these you know

451
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:10,480
these uh the you know these these officers who were

452
00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:12,599
you know who in in like Prussian uniforms, you know,

453
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:15,960
but like flawless like parade drill and things like that.

454
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:19,960
You know, like this is basically like any like any

455
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:23,160
kid of like European stock, like European or Arab or

456
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:26,759
like you know, adjacent stock in Chile, Like this is

457
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:29,000
what he wanted to be, you know, Like they can't

458
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:35,480
really be overstated. Like Robert O'Kelly, who is Pinechet's economics minister,

459
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,880
you know, and again, uh, you know, a guy of

460
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,519
European pedigree. His grandfather was a was a navy man

461
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:48,039
in the world of Pacific, like he said, like in

462
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:50,920
his biography, it never is autobiography, it never it never

463
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,240
occurred to me to be anything else than a sailor, Like,

464
00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:55,599
without a doubt, the navy is a vocation, like the priesthood,

465
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,039
not everybody is called to be tied to the post.

466
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,079
Like that's what these guys looked at it again and

467
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,960
you know like where the where the where they where

468
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,559
the vanguard of the fatherland and where you know and

469
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,079
we're and we're you know where they where? The church militant.

470
00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:12,880
You know, that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural

471
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:21,640
identitarian variables. You know, the uh and there was ah

472
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:29,400
the army uh in there a a uh even even

473
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,000
when even when a military draft is implemented, pursue it

474
00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:36,599
to the you know, twentieth century reforms like the way

475
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:40,119
like army literature like they're like recruiting literature at the

476
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,359
time and kind of like they're they're sort of you know,

477
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:46,279
after a these like kind of like after action what

478
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:48,160
amounts a kind of like these kind of like romantic

479
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:52,359
novels of like the Daring do of of Officers and

480
00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:53,920
there were the Pacific but it's kind of like dressed

481
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,319
up as like after action reports. Like it was like

482
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,400
all like the theme that is like on the nose,

483
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,519
like through all this stuff is uh. You know that

484
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,759
you know, being a soldier is it's it's it's different

485
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:08,599
than any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to

486
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,799
the fatherland, you know, like a like a monk gives

487
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:13,799
his life to the church, you know. And it's it's

488
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,960
not that that that's unique, it's uniquely Catholic. It's like

489
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,720
you need, it's both uniquely Prussian and uniquely Catholic, which is,

490
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,359
you know, a collision of uh of opposing tendencies. But

491
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,480
you know that's uh that there's there's a syncreticism. There's

492
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:35,559
a syncretism there that's really interesting. But the uh there

493
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,440
it also something and this was again like another Prussian

494
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:42,799
tendency that was brought to bear. There's a really strong

495
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:50,640
devotion to continual study of warfare that uh. Pinochet said that,

496
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,039
you know, he first started reading when he got to

497
00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:57,680
the military. His first reading assignment was the Rebellion of

498
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,359
the Master it is or the Revolt of the Master

499
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,440
it is by they were taking guess it's and a

500
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,039
lot of friends of ours will be familiar with it.

501
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,799
And the Gallic War was by Caesar. After that he

502
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,599
became this bibliophile. Penichet when he died went to approximately

503
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,320
fifty five thousand books like many of which were rare

504
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,280
and one of a kind. So he was a he

505
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,400
was another like man of books. That makes me feel

506
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:27,679
a bit better about my own book hoarding. Frankly, now

507
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:30,880
here's get into kind of like the nitty gritty of

508
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,280
what created this, you know, kind of irreparable divide between

509
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,360
you know, civil society and the Chilean army. You know what,

510
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:42,480
it wasn't just the kind of factors we talked about

511
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,000
a moment ago of an identitarian sort, but very very

512
00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:50,320
few military personnel actually voted in elections in Chile, even

513
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,000
though they were technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but

514
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:59,199
it was considered unseemly. You know, soldiers aren't supposed to

515
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:02,679
be political, and you know, not just because they're they're

516
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,159
supposed to serve you know, the fatherland first and foremost

517
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,400
and not not discreet you know, political factions or or

518
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,719
interests they're in. But it's also like it's it's it's viewed.

519
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,679
They viewed it as like beneath them, you know, particularly

520
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,280
consider the kind of elitist and and you know, uh

521
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:26,519
monastic sort of id like self concept these men had.

522
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:31,480
And also the uh when the when the draft was? Uh?

523
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,159
When when the conscript? When the when the conscription regime

524
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,800
was implemented, you know, uh, the like the new conscripts.

525
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,920
I couldn't vote, you know, because they weren't they weren't,

526
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:42,360
they weren't twenty one.

527
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: What's interesting I saw an interview with Michael Flynn, I

528
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,320
think Patrick med David was interviewing, and Michael Flynn said

529
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,480
the same thing he said when I was in I

530
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:54,199
never voted.

531
00:35:55,519 --> 00:35:58,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And it's it's really dysfunctional. I mean,

532
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,320
I mean, the US military is like is like as

533
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,119
awful as the rest of the fucking regime. But it's

534
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,000
it's really really really dysfunctional. It's on its own face

535
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,480
for you to have you know, any like when you're

536
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,320
talking aout the officer corp of the enlicited ranks, did

537
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,760
it you know, be like committed to some you know

538
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,400
to some like electoral position. Yeah, you know it's some

539
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:17,079
people can tell me, I don't know what I'm talking about.

540
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:19,119
You know, you know what pre servers fook you for

541
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,719
basing Like I I know what I'm talking about in

542
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,400
this regard. Okay, I I Am not gonna argue the

543
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:32,559
point because it's obvious, but the it uh considering uh,

544
00:36:33,679 --> 00:36:37,159
considering the size of that of Chile's electorate and the

545
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,760
number of commission and noncommissioned officers and the forearmed services

546
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,360
taken together, and this is both politically and statistically significant.

547
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,480
Like military votes, they're like if if if I'm listening

548
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:58,679
to an authors had voted in appreciable numbers, it may

549
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,559
not have decided any any any and you know, any

550
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:06,800
presidential contest one or the other. But relatively but relatively

551
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:12,079
small pluralities decided national elections regularly in Chile, and particularly

552
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:17,000
in nineteen fifty eight, in nineteen seventy where uh, something

553
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:22,480
like thirty nine thousand votes, you know, like like we're

554
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:28,320
what put the winning candidate over? You know, it's the

555
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,920
uh and also too like it was it was it

556
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,480
was it was against the law. It was a literally,

557
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,039
it was literally a crime for you know that would

558
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:40,000
available to court martial to protest, you know. Uh. And

559
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:45,280
that was a pretty that was a pretty widely that's

560
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,559
pretty that's pretty loosely interpreted. Okay, I mean anybody, you know,

561
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,960
a man coulda be brought up on charges and a

562
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:54,639
failed to courts martial, you know, not just for joining

563
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,199
you know, some not just like throwing bricks in the

564
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,559
street at you know it a cap with or whatever.

565
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,559
But just if you associated with the parties that were

566
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:06,440
considered to be, you know, have a platform that tended

567
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,079
towards you know, trying to have this credit the political process,

568
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:16,280
you know, based on ideological commitments or you know, associating

569
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,360
with parties who's you know do his tink members you know,

570
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:21,800
had said things that impe impugned the honor of the

571
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,039
fatherland like this is this is not something they would

572
00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:26,639
have fuck with. Okay, like even even more they inclined

573
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:33,840
and they weren't and uh pinichet to I mean starting

574
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,079
a service, you know, quite literally in nineteen thirty three,

575
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:43,920
there was even greater kind of technical aptitude demanded by

576
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,880
new officers, especially in the Navy and the Air Force,

577
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,000
but I mean also in the army, particularly as regards

578
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:55,440
command and control, you know, the UH. So as these

579
00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:58,440
officers became more world leagues, they had to be like

580
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:02,360
they'd send them they'd be sent to you know, they'd

581
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,000
be sent to UH, Africa, Asia, Europe, other places in

582
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:10,000
Latin America, you know, to as inn liaison capacity and

583
00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:12,840
to like learn from other militaries and like as these

584
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,280
guys developed you know, linguistic attitudes for foreign languages as

585
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,320
they literally saw the rest of the world, you know,

586
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,760
as they talked to you know, they they talked to

587
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Wehrmacht officers, you know, they talk to you know, French officers,

588
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:29,039
they talk to guys you know, like serving uh In

589
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,119
uh In you know, in Mexico close to the American

590
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:35,599
border or whatever. Like, they developed a worldly perspective, and

591
00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:39,000
they came to understand you know, as time went on,

592
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:42,159
they you know, they came to they came to understand

593
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:44,800
the Cold War, you know, and they developed an idea

594
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,559
of like where Chile featured into that, you know, by

595
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:49,880
the Pinochet era. Like It's what I'm getting is that

596
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,039
these weren't just like a bunch of provincial roots or something,

597
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:54,039
or like we're trying to turn back the clock or whatever.

598
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:57,239
And they weren't just you know, mercenaries for hire in

599
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,280
the service of you know, basically acting like I think

600
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,239
like you know, like like like pinkertons on steroids, you know,

601
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,800
beat down or calc trent like labor types. You know,

602
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,760
they they developed an understanding of like Veldt politique and

603
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,960
where Latin America featured into that equation, you know, and

604
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,360
this brings us to what was insidious about Alende. Okay,

605
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,159
Sauter Orlande in the nineteen sixties was a very busy boy. Okay,

606
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,519
his schedule tookhim to North Korea, North Vietnam. In East Germany,

607
00:40:37,639 --> 00:40:41,840
Allende believed that the DDR was his best bet in

608
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,920
terms of identifying a patron the which is very interesting,

609
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:52,880
and the DDR it wasn't just the spear point of

610
00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:55,400
Warsaw pack like the National volks Army wasn't just a

611
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,079
spear point of Warsaw Pact. And not only was East

612
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:01,760
Germany kind of like the crown jewel of like this

613
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,480
the Stalinist satellite states. East Germany practiced the kind of

614
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:09,320
world politique in a way that the Cubans did, but

615
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,920
like a little bit more sophisticated. Even like there's these

616
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,000
Germans Angola, there was East Germans in Yemen which became

617
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:20,159
South Yemen. There's these Germans uh in Ethiopia, Eritrea, there's

618
00:41:20,199 --> 00:41:24,599
East Germans on Grenada. When you know, the US Army

619
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:32,039
assaulted Grenado in eighty three for a for what I'm

620
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:35,280
wanted to do, a rump state of twenty million people

621
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:40,480
and a regime that was constantly uh dealing with an

622
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,199
existential threat on its inner border. Like literally like these

623
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,159
guys were remarkably active in uh In, in waging the

624
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,800
Cold War and in a in like a direct action

625
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,400
capacity you know, to say nothing like the bottom minehoff Gang,

626
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,599
to say nothing of you know, uh them bank rolling

627
00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:01,880
in train the popular Front of liberations in Palestine, Like

628
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:07,280
it's remarkable. But Allende knew this. Okay, In East Berlin,

629
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:12,639
Aline met with the party secretary general and de facto

630
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:18,199
you know, head of State Walter Ubricht, who preceded Honiker

631
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:23,039
from forty nine to seventy one. Ubricht was General Secretary

632
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:26,840
and then he was under cremoniously sideline in favor of

633
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,360
Honiker from nineteen seventy one until the end. But uh

634
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,360
he u Ubricht put him in direct content with Hermann Akson,

635
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,599
who was who was the Central Committee Secretary for a

636
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,599
national relations the equivalent of the foreign minister. Okay, action's

637
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:46,800
assignment for the duration of his tenure, particularly in the

638
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,880
sixties and seventies, he was the function as a liaison

639
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,840
with communist parties throughout the world, you know, and and

640
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,400
basically this is the stuff that smacks of you know

641
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,480
like the old days the Communist International, you know, which

642
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:04,360
U with Stalin, you know, put an end to by

643
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,719
Dick Todd and and turned into common form. But it's

644
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,199
but but it goes to show you how uh, how

645
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,400
these this these things never really went away. You know,

646
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:20,239
they developed a certain operational sophistication and and kind of

647
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,639
institutionalization and and and kind of and kind of a

648
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:28,599
streamline operational set of operational tendencies. But it you know,

649
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:32,920
they they remained the same beast of prey, but with

650
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:41,199
different slightly different stripes it uh as it were. But uh,

651
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,159
whether or Lending met with the Stazi directly and Eric Milk,

652
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,440
it's not known, but I imagine he would have. Okay,

653
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,360
Eric Milk was uh he was in direct content with

654
00:43:55,679 --> 00:44:05,519
Daniel Ortega, with uh, with Kadafi, with Minjitsu with uh

655
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:10,480
you know all these all these uh, all these proxy

656
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,440
all these proxy elements that uh, the Warsaw Pact was

657
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:21,559
was uh, you know, directly supporting and Shtazi men. Uh.

658
00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:25,920
Their role was not just as uh you know, policeman

659
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,320
and as espionage espionage agents. They had a role that

660
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,199
we considered it more kind of the more suggestive of

661
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:44,079
special Operations Command. It's complicated, but uh, the the East

662
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:50,320
Berlin basically treated accents recommendations like they came from on high. Okay,

663
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:54,079
he was that good. I think it was kind of

664
00:44:54,159 --> 00:44:55,519
like a I think kind of I think of this

665
00:44:55,639 --> 00:44:58,480
kind of it's kind of like a a red crowd

666
00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:01,239
version of George Kennon, like legit, I mean, I have,

667
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
like all respect, A lot of these d d R

668
00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:08,079
functionaries were damn impressive. Definitely the best that the worst

669
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:13,239
up Peck produced. Of course, what Alinda was doing didn't

670
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:19,519
go unnoticed. C I a Defense Intelligence CIA at that time.

671
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,440
It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it

672
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:28,880
was still uh it was still primarily like the eyes

673
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:35,119
and ears of of American intelligence behind the East blot,

674
00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:40,280
behind the Berlin Wall, you know. So CI they took

675
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,599
notice immediately when allendi was started popping up in East Berlin.

676
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:53,840
Uh Nixon, Uh Nixon, uh said the Kissinger. He's like, look,

677
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:56,960
you know this Alandi's not he's not some he's not

678
00:45:57,079 --> 00:46:00,639
some simple farmer or some starry eyed you know, uh,

679
00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:06,559
just uh you know, self styled uh you know, agrarian revolutionary,

680
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,039
like this guy is serious, you know, and he's he's

681
00:46:10,119 --> 00:46:12,760
not what you know, American liberals are presenting him as

682
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,000
and he's not benign, you know, and Kusinger obviously agreed.

683
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:22,599
I mean, I you know it. Uh. The uh also

684
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,320
is the fact chill the Chilean the Chilean Communist Party

685
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,800
was uh. It was by far the largest and best

686
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,039
organized in South America, Okay, And that's one of the things.

687
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:34,760
That's one of the things that made it appealing to

688
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,639
the d d R. And also we were talking about

689
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:38,440
the Germans and the wonderful things they did for Chile.

690
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:41,360
Well some of those Germans were unfortunately communists, and they

691
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:47,320
you know, we're building up political architecture on the other side,

692
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,000
you know, and this was, uh, this is very much

693
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:57,920
a problem, it uh. I mean from a geopolitical view,

694
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:01,159
I mean, think about that, like the cone of Latin

695
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:05,000
America just becoming communists, you know, or uh, all of

696
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:09,199
Latin America falling and maybe Brazil remaining kind of in

697
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:16,679
this garrison siege capacity. I mean that that changes everything,

698
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,000
you know. And like I've always said, like I'm always saying,

699
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,320
it didn't matter that these marsais Lands regimes are totally

700
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:28,119
dysfunctional and created a created economies of shortage. There's all

701
00:47:28,199 --> 00:47:31,679
kinds of governments that don't really work, right that that

702
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,519
Shambalaine perpetuity. It was very possible. It was not at

703
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:41,079
all the stuff of kind of like fever dream nightmare

704
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:45,800
fantasies to imagine a world where post aton like the

705
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,119
entire the entire like developing world or colored world goes

706
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,679
red like kind of the remaining like American friendly regimes

707
00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:57,880
outside of UH, Northern Europe and Japan, you know, just

708
00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:00,599
like eventually just kind of like succumb and fall and

709
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:03,239
America becomes kind of just like to say, Garrison state,

710
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,199
like surrounded by like a hostile communist world like that

711
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,519
very easily could have come about, Okay, and that that

712
00:48:09,519 --> 00:48:14,840
would be a very dangerous planet. You know, we could

713
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,280
argue at some or we can discuss at some point

714
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,280
whether that's preferable or not to the current situation. But

715
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:26,639
it that's Monday morning quarterback, and in the epoch of

716
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:31,679
you know, say nineteen seventy three, you know, seventy four

717
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,159
to seventy five, this was absolutely a very real possibility. Okay.

718
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:44,920
Now the minute, the minute, the moment A Landy was

719
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,760
elected president Chile, UH, the East German regime like through

720
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:53,320
Stazi support behind him. Okay, within a couple of weeks.

721
00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:59,039
It doesn't like COVID operation. The Grilla warfare specialists who

722
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:01,920
were from the Stasi, they were dispatched a Sandiago and

723
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,519
there diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Block

724
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:15,199
UH special operations capable elements, including from Czechoslovakia and and

725
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,400
and then the Soviet Union itself and all probability. They

726
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,440
set up a camp near Valparaiso. UH. The Soviets furnished weapons,

727
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,679
prefabricated huts. They like they literally just set up this

728
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,320
kind of like grilla warfare school, like bam, you know,

729
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,880
like it's like, uh, it's like if you buy like

730
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
a McDonald's franchise. It's like you buy like a you

731
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,119
buy you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan

732
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:40,960
and they show up and it's just like bam, you know,

733
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:44,920
here's here's like your franchise literature. Here's a buy Klashnik

734
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,400
coughs you here's something like snazzy freaking uh you know,

735
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:52,480
uh uniforms, and you know, and here's here's some you know,

736
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:55,239
like here's something like enameled like red star pins for

737
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,880
your freaking cap and like you're good to go, you know,

738
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,880
like go go, go, go go capitalists. But the UH

739
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,880
and Milk actually wrote he Milk would UH. He'd sent

740
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,280
out these what amounts to enter off his memos to

741
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:18,880
every directorate of the Stazi periodically, and on December eighteenth,

742
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:30,800
nineteen seventy two, he said, Uh, you know, the CHECKS

743
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,079
or the d DR will will welcome with enthusiasm and

744
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:37,519
happiness the great victory of the National Celerity movement for

745
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:39,960
obtaining the freedom of the Secondary General or the Communist Party.

746
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,440
Your friend and comrade Lewis Corvellon. Like Corvellon was some

747
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,079
guy who'd been like in prison in Chile. I can't

748
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:49,440
remember exactly what the and Milk would call. He called

749
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:53,159
UH Ministry for State Security Officers, like checkis you know,

750
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:57,559
because there's a callback to his days as a as

751
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:03,760
an nkv D hitter, you know, during during UH the

752
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,719
war in Spain and later the UH later UH the

753
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,199
Second World War. But my point is like he was

754
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,519
attuned like like Chile was very much like a key

755
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,920
like theater in his mind. Okay, That's why he was

756
00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:22,280
That's why he was UH like braying about you know,

757
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,440
these these UH, these kind of like like like little

758
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:28,280
chess moves in Chile, like in Blu of other theaters.

759
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:35,599
The UH, the Stasi set set to work UH in Chile,

760
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:44,719
UH targeting UH, you know, target targeting Pinochet loyalists and

761
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:49,320
what have you, you know, essentially essentially creating like a

762
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,400
mirror of you know, in security terms, you know, like

763
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:55,840
this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't

764
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Allende wasn't in the driver's seat long enough for UH

765
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,880
Santiago to become you know, like a giant a giant

766
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:08,440
version of of of East Berlin. But I think I

767
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,559
mentioned the camera for we were on here or not?

768
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,719
But like Ali North mentioned that when he was UH

769
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,719
when he traveled to UH, when he traveled in Nicaragua

770
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,159
in nineteen eighty three or eighty four, like when when

771
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:25,320
he himself was under diplomatic cover, like he relaid back

772
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,880
by like telex that you know, like Monagua now is

773
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,639
like it's like a scale model of of Checkpoint Charlie,

774
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,320
the inner German border, you know, and it now what

775
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,159
what happened during Pinochet's rain or like the Junta's reign

776
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:52,480
Chile deteriorated into what something comparable to the years of lead.

777
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:58,119
In Italy, Okay, there's a leftist urban guerrilla terror groups.

778
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,880
They began, uh, a campaign of bombings, assassinations, you know,

779
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,639
exactly the kind of bread and butter stuff that the

780
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:10,400
Shazi taught people to do. You know, there was a

781
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:15,280
that there's bombs exploding in Santiago, in Vienna, Del mar In,

782
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,280
uh in all the major you know kind of commercial

783
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,960
hubs and larger towns at Chile. You know, they were

784
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,559
they were, they were, they were. They were targeting supermarkets, buses,

785
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:29,239
government offices, you know, like shopping centers, you know, just

786
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:35,360
like indiscriminately, like blowing people to hell. You know. This

787
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:40,199
really ramped up in Earnest by the eighties, which is interesting.

788
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:42,519
Between ninet eighty three and nineteen eighty six, there's more

789
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:47,679
than a thousand bombings attributed to the Clandestine Communist Front

790
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:51,840
and uh, this group in the color itself, the Revolutionary Movement,

791
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,880
which is probably an umbrella of it, was probably like

792
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,559
a like numerous like nonstate actors like under this kind

793
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:02,760
of like rubric, you know, but because it may like

794
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,559
they uh, they uh, a total of twenty one national

795
00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:14,840
police and military casualties were attributed to them in just

796
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,119
four years. When nineteen eighty four nineteen eighty eight, East

797
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:23,679
Germany contributed six million, seven or ninety five thousand and

798
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,639
fifteen dollars to the Chilean Communist Party, that's a huge

799
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,840
sum for forty years ago. And this is East Germany

800
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,199
doing it. So they're basically just like they're they're they're

801
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,480
throwing everything in their cash reser is basically that they've

802
00:54:38,519 --> 00:54:46,400
availed for, you know, foreign operations of a military sort.

803
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:48,639
They're they're just like throwing this into the at their

804
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,559
proxies in Chile. You know, I mean this was a

805
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,519
this is a this is a highly valued battle theater. Okay,

806
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:03,239
the U the most serious incident I guess of a

807
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,280
in terms of potential harm, and the most kind of

808
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,280
spectacular not not not let like literally spectacular in terms

809
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,039
of the spectacle that I created, not spectacular like it's mourderful.

810
00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:20,719
So third seven, nineteen eighty six, UH guerrilla is ambushed

811
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:26,239
Pinochet's motorcade. Your Santiago pener State survived. He didn't he

812
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,719
didn't take any any lad but uh five members of

813
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:36,079
his escort were killed. Ten people were wounded. The uh.

814
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,360
It was basically like a comic cozingkind of attack. Twelve

815
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,559
gunmen from calling themselves the Manuel where at Riga's Revolutionary Front,

816
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:53,800
like simply assaulted with with automatic weapons and grenades. There

817
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,920
was a there was never a trial. The government ever

818
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,320
renounced in the arrest. Presumably these men those we're not

819
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,639
killed at the scene. We're running down and and and

820
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:10,280
and and and done away with Eventually. Uh. There were

821
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:20,840
some including uh including Buro Amiida, you know who UH

822
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:26,760
broke with the Communists completely owing to uh what he

823
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,559
claimed was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of

824
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,639
the East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure

825
00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:38,000
he I think he probably believed this, you know, He's like,

826
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:40,519
I came to realize if if you know what was

827
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:43,880
then my side one, you know, we we didn't up

828
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,840
no better than the East Germans and what have you.

829
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,320
And he broke with Communism and he made he managed

830
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,679
to convince everybody, including Pinochet's people that he uh that

831
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,239
this was like a genuine conversion, and he went on

832
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:02,679
he went on to in post pinch Chile to be

833
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:08,239
a like a heavy percentage. But and he actually uh

834
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:14,199
his he was posted as uh as an ambassador in Moscow.

835
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,639
I don't know if it was like like like who's

836
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:21,360
in humor or what, but the it uh, you know,

837
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,280
and the and the list goes on and on of

838
00:57:23,519 --> 00:57:31,000
uh these you know, communist attacks. Uh. Even after Pinochet

839
00:57:31,039 --> 00:57:33,679
stepped down, you know, these these kinds of attacks continued.

840
00:57:34,639 --> 00:57:36,679
There's one, I mean not in the same kind of

841
00:57:36,719 --> 00:57:41,000
earnest but uh, some of these revolutionary types they they

842
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:43,599
there's like this crazy in nineteen eighty six, the Semer

843
00:57:43,639 --> 00:57:48,679
ninety six they escaped, Uh, they escaped from the yard

844
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,199
of the of this of this political prison they were

845
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,199
held in, like with the help of these of these

846
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,039
these original IRA operatives, like just like a helicopter like

847
00:57:57,119 --> 00:57:59,760
pulled them off the yard, just like you know, stuff

848
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:04,639
like seeing some fucking like John Wick or Jason Bourne

849
00:58:04,679 --> 00:58:09,559
movie or something. But the you know, the and you know,

850
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:12,559
not not for nothing either, like uh, I mean maybe

851
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:18,199
maybe people don't know this, like Honaker Uh Eric Honecker

852
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,639
was buried. He was buried in Chile like after he

853
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,280
died and they laid the d d R flag on

854
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,239
his coffin and everything, you know, like it's this was

855
00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:29,679
like this idea that you know the Ollendia regime. They

856
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:32,000
were just these like kind of like social democrats you know,

857
00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:34,679
who you know, just wanted to, you know, kind of

858
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,880
like give an alternative system a chance, and and these fascists,

859
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,519
you know, just just just destroyed that potentiality, you know.

860
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:43,679
I mean it was it was real war, Okay. I mean,

861
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,239
there's no choice about it. And if people want to,

862
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,920
I'm sure very nasty things happened to people who were

863
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,719
suspected of being Communists or Commuy sympathizers. But I mean,

864
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,199
what do people want, Like war is a terrible thing,

865
00:58:57,559 --> 00:58:59,360
you know, and you can't you can't only tell one

866
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,280
side of these stories, you know. I mean, I know

867
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:03,960
the Stazi was doing pretty nasty things to people at

868
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,360
the same time, and the Stazi were agents of a

869
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,159
foreign government who were trying to, you know, determine the

870
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,960
political fate of a of a sovereign country. So that's

871
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,320
that's about all I got for today. We can deep

872
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,880
dive more into I mean there's a lot here, man, Frankly,

873
00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:24,159
I mean we can we can deep dive more into,

874
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:27,800
like the personage of Pinichet if you want, when I

875
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:32,000
get back from my trip. But that you know, I

876
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,039
kind of want to give an overview of the situation

877
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,599
as it were, as it was, you know, politically and

878
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:42,039
strategically and culturally and everything else. I hope I've accomplished

879
00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:44,639
that well.

880
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: One of the things that people bring up now because

881
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:52,519
of a Netflix mini series called A Sinister Sect, there

882
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:57,119
was a German colony called the Colonia Dignity DoD that

883
00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:01,880
is accused of doing all sorts of like acts of torture.

884
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,119
People now say p Ando Chein knows that there were

885
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,159
active child molesters operating in the country and he would

886
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,639
protect them everything. I mean, I hear people I know

887
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:18,800
saying these kind of things, and when you start deep

888
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,599
diving into it, it's like, yeah, I mean, the guy

889
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,119
was at war the whole time he was in office,

890
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,880
and you know, to say that he was aware of

891
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,440
all these things, and you know he just allowed him

892
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:31,280
to happen, But.

893
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,519
Speaker 2: It's like, why would that even It's like every the

894
01:00:34,599 --> 01:00:37,679
story always changed. I remember I remember when I was

895
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:41,840
in college and this guy was going around and he

896
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,119
wrote a couple of books. He was some journal He

897
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:49,679
was claiming that at the soccer stadium Pinochet's loyalists, they'd

898
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,760
sit around watching people be beheaded and shear it, and

899
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,880
they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them

900
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,719
and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium.

901
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:01,880
I mean, that's like gross for all kinds of reasons,

902
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,440
but that that's that's so like fucking weird. That's just

903
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:07,400
like not ship that happens. You know, it's like why

904
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,079
and place? It's like who who? Like, like what's the

905
01:01:10,199 --> 01:01:12,880
source for this? Like guys who were watching this like

906
01:01:13,039 --> 01:01:17,679
came back and told you, like what, Like I it's

907
01:01:17,719 --> 01:01:21,239
always like something sexually perverted and just like really really

908
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,360
really gross and just like outlandish, like it's you know,

909
01:01:26,239 --> 01:01:30,119
the like for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become

910
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:34,679
this like fixation of theirs, you know, like uh, like

911
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,239
it's really weird. You know, it's like why why not?

912
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:42,679
Uh why not Sellizar, Like why not straws Nerd? Like

913
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,760
why not? Uh? Prone Like why why Pinochet? Like you know,

914
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,800
Pinochet was kind of like what you see is what

915
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,039
you get, you know, like he was, uh, you know,

916
01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:55,480
he's very much like I mean, he was very much

917
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:57,800
like we talked about. He was very much like a

918
01:01:59,079 --> 01:02:01,559
military officer with the kind of Prussian mold who was

919
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:04,280
also like a very very very like pious kind of

920
01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:10,679
warrior catholic. I mean that's there's not I mean there's

921
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:13,800
not that there's not really a lot there. I mean

922
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:15,800
there's a lot there, but I mean, you know, not

923
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:18,320
not in terms of you know, these these kinds of

924
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,760
like deep dark and dirty secrets. And plus it's also

925
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,519
too like the kind of there's a been noality the

926
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:26,039
kind of horrible stuff that goes on at war. It's

927
01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:30,239
not like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo

928
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,039
Nazi colony of child molesters who are like experimenting with

929
01:02:34,119 --> 01:02:37,679
people's DNA and like a soccer stadium where guys like

930
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,360
practice beast reality. But it's not that's that's something from

931
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,000
like the Warped Mind to somebody who like watches too

932
01:02:45,079 --> 01:02:49,599
much Henti or something, you know, like I it really is,

933
01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:54,119
you know, it's like but it's like for years, you know,

934
01:02:54,159 --> 01:02:57,920
people tell me that that Earnest like that Nazis they'd

935
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,800
like take people's skin off and if they at tattoos,

936
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,360
they'd make it into lamp shades and like show their friends.

937
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,880
So it's like why would anybody do that? So you're

938
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,039
basically saying that like the Germans are like a bunch

939
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:11,320
of Jeffrey Dahmers, Like like why why would they even

940
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:15,239
oc hurt anybody? You know, like uh, beyond the fact

941
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,800
that it's like okay, like where you're getting this information

942
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,519
and like who's like telling this to people? Like oh, hey,

943
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:22,519
you know what I did today? Like I I like

944
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,840
I found out with these childlisting Germans and then like

945
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,760
one of the stadium where like this chip got like

946
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,360
raped by dogs. It was awesome. I mean like like

947
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,079
where where's this coming from? Like who's just closing these things?

948
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well hit up some plugs and we'll

949
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:39,599
let on this.

950
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:46,039
Speaker 2: For sure. Uh. You can find me at Real Thomas

951
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:49,519
seven seven seven that substack dot com. You can find

952
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:55,360
me on Twitter x real Capital r E L Underscore

953
01:03:55,679 --> 01:03:59,119
number seven H one S seven seven seven. I'm going

954
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:03,760
to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content for

955
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:08,000
Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number seven

956
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:13,760
HM as space TV and I think people will appreciate

957
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:18,800
what I'm going to be dropping there. And by the

958
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,960
end of the month, season two with a Mind Phaser

959
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:24,639
podcast is going to drop and at which point all

960
01:04:24,719 --> 01:04:26,800
season one content is going to be free, so be

961
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,280
able to access everything from season one and all special

962
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,800
edition content for free, and subscripsion of season two is

963
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,119
only physically five dollars a month, and that's like, that's

964
01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:42,559
as low as I can go and still remain and

965
01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:44,800
still not eat a loss. So like, unless you're a hobo,

966
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,320
you can afford that. So and I'll make it worth

967
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,960
your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free stuff too.

968
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:53,639
That is uh, that is like a.

969
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,519
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure I echo everyone

970
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:01,920
else when I say this, safe travels.

971
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a

972
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:05,320
few days.

973
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:06,679
Speaker 1: Thank you.