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Speaker 1: Another whistleblower comes forward Just days before Trump's inauguration, Ross

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Coltart reveals another UAP whistleblower on News Nation. Former Airman

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Jake Barber goes public revealing he worked under non official

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cover as part of an elite team of special operators

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tasked with recovering crashed military aircraft and UFOs. Despite three

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other special operators coming forward to vouch for Jake Barber's claims,

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skeptics continued to question his story and military record. Doctor

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John Blitch, a former Green Beret and Special Mission Units

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Troop commander, joins us to discuss how he came to

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know Jake Barber and why he believes what Jake and

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his team have told him about their astounding crash retrieval activities.

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Speaker 2: But is Jake Barber who he says he is?

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Speaker 1: And are his allegations true?

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Speaker 3: You goddamn right.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Matt Ford. Welcome to the Good Trouble Show.

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We have a very special guest today.

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Speaker 1: Former Green Beret and Special Mission Unit Troop commander, Doctor

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John Blitch joins us on The Good Trouble Show for

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a two part exclusive interview to discuss YOUAP whistleblower Jake Barber,

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but first, please hit the subscribe and thumbs up buttons

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on YouTube, leave a comment and let us know what

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you think about this episode. You can also find us

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on xt at Good Trouble Show and everywhere else at

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The Good Trouble Show. You can also find us wherever

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you enjoy your podcasts, search for The Good Troubleshow with

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Matt Ford.

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Speaker 2: And if you would like.

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Speaker 1: To chip in to keep the lights on, you can

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become a Patreon member of The Good Trouble Show by

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going to www dot patreon dot com Ford slash the

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Good Trouble Show. Sign up to help us keep bringing

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you amazing shows like the one we have today. Now,

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with all of that out of the way, here is

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part one of our interview with doctor John Blitch. Please

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welcome Doctor John Blitch. Doctor Blitch, how are you, sir?

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Speaker 3: I am loving life. Matt how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing just fine. Welcome to The Good Trouble Show.

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You're your first first time here. Hopefully this is the

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first of many many appearances that you'll have on our show.

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We of course, have a lot of common friends. I

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actually I met you through Lou Alizondo, and I'd say

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we really hit it off. But I actually never asked

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the story of how you connected with Lou, how you

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met him?

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Speaker 2: That tell us about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so well, first of all, thank you for having

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me on. I'm a big fan of show, and thanks

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for everything you're doing for the disclosure effort.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, like many people, I started following Lou

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after his heroic disclosure effort in late twenty seventeen, I

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was a professor at the Air Force Academy and started

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following him then, and I ended up just you know,

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being very enthusiastic about his effort. I don't throw that

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word heroic around easily. I mean he put it all

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on the line. So I was very impressed with that,

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and then kept following him after he ended up at TTSA.

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But what inspired me to actually track him down? And

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that's that's a challenging thing for anybody of his background, right,

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he knows how to disappear pretty well. But I was

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able to track him down because I was I was

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very impressed with that TV series that TTSA put together

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to the Stars Academy called Unidentified. Watched every one of

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those episodes, several of them more than once, but the

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last episode season two, episode eight, which was the only

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one that covered or had any direct activity with regards

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to the abduction phenomenon. Uh, that kind of upset me.

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And so I tracked him down, uh and and just

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you know, did everything I could to put him on

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the pedestal that he so richly deserves for his selfless

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service and all the risk that he and his family

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have taken on behalf of our fellow humans and Americans.

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And so that's yeah, so that's how I tracked him down. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think what a lot of people really have a

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difficult time wrapping their heads around is the fact that

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people these you know, these folks that have come forward,

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such as such as Low, such as David Grush, and

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of course we have Jake Barber, now this new whistleblower

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that that was on ross Coltheart's Special.

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Speaker 2: You know, these these.

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Speaker 1: Folks are really putting themselves on the line, you know,

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putting their themselves at risk, their families at risk, all

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to to you know, really kind of call out this

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sort of tragedy of the American government not being straight

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with the American people about the UAP issue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I could not agree with you more. And I

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think all of those folks would admit that they stand

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on the shoulder of so many others, many shoulders that

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are stacked up for the last eighty years or so.

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Sergeant Major Robert o'dean a personal hero of mine. But

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Kathy Martin, a lot of the researchers, Travis Walton, all

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these folks coming forward and taking huge risks to their career,

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to their families, their lives, and my hat is off

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to all of them.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you have quite an outstanding history of serving this country.

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Speaker 2: If you don't mind walk just through your.

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Speaker 1: Military service before you got before you began working in

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the special forces community.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well let me see. So I'm a class of

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nineteen eighty one from West Point, but do not be impressed.

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I was a lousy student, graated the two point four

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to one gpa, and I set a record for demerits

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before Christmas might plead year, but two point four to

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one gpa. With that background, then they put me in

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charge of nuclear weapons. Go figure. H So ended up

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in Germany practicing launching nuclear projectiles from West Germany into

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East Germany. And I got to tell you that I

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had some misgivgs about that one night in particular, gorgeous blizzard.

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Post blizzard, full moon comes out, and I started really

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trying to come to grips with the fact that we

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were trying to kill people that never hurt me, uh

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and in the far distant right in East Germany. And

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then it occurred to me that we're not just killing them,

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we're killing their kids. They're grandkids for decades and centuries

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to go. So you're reaching not only into another country,

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but you're reaching into the future with those weapons. So

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I had a difficult time with that. I always really

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wanted to be an astronaut, so applied. Couldn't become an

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army aviator a helicopter pilot. So I submitted an inn

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service transfer to the Navy I believe or not to

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be goose the back seater and top gun wow, and

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it was approved. I had orders. I was ready to go,

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but then they were revoked in nineteen eighty six and

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I was stuck at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and was put

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in charge of a Persian too missile battery. Now I

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want to be very clear about that. It was a battery.

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It was not a battalion. I've never been a battalion commander,

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and it's a very significant distinction, because a battery is

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only one hundred and twenty people one hundred and twenty soldiers.

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A battalion is five hundred sous and that's commanded by

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a lieutenant colonel. So I was only a captain at

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the time, but it was significant in that I became

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intimately familiar with the Personnel Reliability Program, which basically prevents

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crazy people from getting access to nuclear weapons. So I

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had to sign six slips every single morning about whether

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or not, you know, if this person had was prescribed

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motrin or a state of minifan, or any number of

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other items, whether or not they were fit for nuclear duties.

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So it was a real pinion that very tedious but

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necessary obviously, But then I got kind of sick and

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tired of that. In fact, the day that of my

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outgoing change of command was the day that the IF

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Treaty was signing. The Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty was signed

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on December tenth, nineteen eighty six, and they did away

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with all our missiles. So now what am I going

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to do? I remember going to a classified briefing about

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this hush hush rumored hostage rescue organization, and we all

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had to show our credentials and be listed. It was

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only at a secret level and they were recruiting, and

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so I shinned up, but they turned me down. They said, well,

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you know, you need to go into regular special Forces

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first and then maybe reapply from there. So that's how

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I ended up an sp.

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Speaker 1: Got it okay, And I want to talk now, really

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dig into this to the special Forces. I recently referred

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to you as a Delta Force commander, and it turns

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out I was actually completely wrong. So first i'd like

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to apologize for that, and I would love for you

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to correct correct what I said on the record. My

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understanding of the Special Forces community is obviously a little

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bit lacking. So why was I wrong and.

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Speaker 2: How I referred to you? Please please please educate me.

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Speaker 3: Well, don't worry about matth. No reason to apologize this

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is it actually is factual and accurate. I think I

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sent you a document, a military document that says that

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I was assigned to that unit with that name. But

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none of us like that. Well I shouldn't speak for everybody.

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I was only there for three and a half years,

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but the vast majority of US abhor that name because

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it has this Hollywood flavor to it with Chuck Norris,

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you know, one of my childhood heroes, you know, growing

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up learning karate and all that stuff, and you know,

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books by that name and so forth, and we really

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don't like to have that limelight on us. We much

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prefer to operate behind the scenes. And it's really an

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operational necessity if you think about it, because if every

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time we go rescue American hostages in a foreign country,

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we beat our chests and say America to the rescue, well,

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they're not going to invite us back. It's much more

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important for us to give the local country credit for

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that and keep our identity secret, and then everybody wins. Right,

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we get our American citizens back, they get credit for

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handling their own crisis, and everybody wins. And we do

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the same thing with some of our conventional military units

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as well. We'll give them credit and many times they

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deserve the vast majority of it. So it's a real

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important aspect to sort of suppress ourselves. And the other

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thing that is probably the most important all is it

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keeps our egos under check, right. I mean, we are hotwashes,

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used to be brutal after acts. We are absolutely our

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worst critics, and so we're brutal within ourselves, and that's

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a really important aspect because you can't ever afford to

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think that you're a badass and that you know, you're

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king of the pile. There's always somebody bigger, better, stronger, tougher,

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and so it's a very important aspect of that. So

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we typically referred to it as the Unit, and then,

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of course there was a TV show about the Unit,

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so you know, we should have probably started referring to

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as something else. Maybe the current guys do refer to

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as something else, but that's that's what I refer to it.

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And again I got a caveat all of this, Matt.

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You know, my time back there was nineteen I'd left

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there in nineteen ninety three, so we're what thirty forty years.

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You know, it was a long time ago, and a

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lot of my background there has dated. So I really

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don't like to talk about that unit or any of

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that stuff because there's so many more people with way

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more experience than me, guys that have spent their entire

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life there and done truly heroic stuff. So I never

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did anything even remotely heroic. In the slightest way. I

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might you know, I kept my head on one time

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during one real world of plumbing. That's about it. So

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that's that's kind of that aspect of it. So we

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we'd like to use the term, you know, the technical

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term special mission unit. That's all we are, or a

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smooth And so that's what I will acknowledge that I

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was a true commander in a smooth not the delta

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force commander like you call them. Okay, got it, but

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but realize again that is a full kernel, that's an

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O six. I was an O three. I was. I

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wasn't even middle manager. I was lower middle markin got it.

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Speaker 1: So so what sorts of things just in a general

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way special forces, uh not even specifically talking about about

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the unit or your unit, but in a in a

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general way folks that have no idea who special forces are.

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A lot of times you hear this term a Tier

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one operator through around it. I think, including myself, a

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lot of us are not very clear on what that means.

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Walk us sort of give us like an overview of

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how that is organized. What are tier one operators? And

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you know, just consider that assume that I know absolutely nothing,

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which is pretty close close to being accurate about you

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know what sort of thing you guys did.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're very humble man. I think you know a

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lot more than you say, but it's I'm trying to

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put myself compassionately in your shoes and sort through all

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the misinformation and other information. It's the nature of the

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beast right now. So in general, when I went into

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Special Forces at first and commanded those two A teams,

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those detachments, our mission was to parachute or insert behind

241
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enemy lines, either parachutes or scuba dive or whatever it is,

242
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to get in there and then operate behind enemy lines.

243
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The Cold War enemy line was pretty much the Iron

244
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Curtain Soviet Union. I was in tenth group, so we

245
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were oriented on Europe. Each Army Special Forces group is

246
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geographically ortis a fifth group's Middle East, seventh group is

247
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Central South American. First group is Pacific. You know, everybody

248
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has their areas and were language trained in those areas,

249
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and so that was the general idea. Uh jfk Uh

250
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deserves a lot of credit for that because he envisioned this,

251
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you know, force multiplier that we would go in with

252
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culturally sensitive and language trained folks and organize them to

253
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rise up against their own tyrannical authoritarian government and rather

254
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than having our conventional forces invade, have them rise up

255
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and we would do all we could can't to assist.

256
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And so obviously we had a pretty intensive relationship with

257
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intelligence services, right because they had to guide us, and

258
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a lot of times from you've worked with them in

259
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that role in terms of the Tier one world. That

260
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all spun up pretty much in the aftermath of the

261
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:26,320
seventy two Munich massacre where terrorists pretty much wiped out

262
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the Israeli Olympic team track team I think it was,

263
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and we started realizing, wow, this new form of warfare

264
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is rising up. And so Charlie Beckworth, who had done

265
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a lot of work with the sas, the UK, the

266
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British sas, Australia sas do very good, very phenomenal, you know,

267
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top level folks. But it's a little bit different mission

268
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because now instead of focusing on all this cultural sensitive

269
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aspects of things, you really what you're what you're really

270
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trying to do is surgically interdict and make sure that

271
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that bullet goes this way instead of this way into

272
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a hostage. And that's very very difficult, very time consuming. Uh,

273
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and it's i think it's pretty well known now, it

274
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wasn't back then, but there you know, back at the

275
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you know, we had a barrel that was full of cartridges,

276
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brass cartridges, a fifty five gallon barrel, and that represented

277
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what one operator would shoot down range. That's the amount

278
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of lead that a single person would put down range

279
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in just six months of their initial operator training course.

280
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What we call that amount of lead downrange at that

281
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time was probably equal to what an entire company, like

282
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,400
one hundred and twenty troops would get. So it was

283
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,759
you know, we had we had more resources, but more

284
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was demanded of us, and so because of that demand,

285
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you know, this this tear structure was come up with.

286
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We don't like it. I don't like it because it

287
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,039
has this you know, superiority flavor to it. It's not

288
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we're not superior. It's just it's different missions with different

289
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,480
folks and those of us that have served on both

290
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:27,680
sides of that. Not to mentioned the Ranger Regiment probably

291
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,759
the world's best infantry shop troops that you've ever seen.

292
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They have their mission as well, So it's just a

293
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different mission. So that's that's in a nutshell. I guess

294
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my best shot from my perspective, if.

295
00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:45,599
Speaker 1: You were to sort of characterize the people that are

296
00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:51,079
in the special operator community, how would you characterize them

297
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,759
in terms of just sort of anything like personality type,

298
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,759
what is important to them, anything, anything of that nature.

299
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, this is just my personal opinion,

300
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,119
and again, there are a lot of other people with

301
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,359
a lot more experience than me. I spent seven years

302
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:18,640
of my twenty four years in command, and four of

303
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,559
those five commands was we're in special Forces. But there

304
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:25,759
are a lot of people with way more time in this.

305
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:30,119
So my perspective is that the single most distinguishing factor

306
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,079
for Army Special Forces is not well recognized. And I

307
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,640
think it boils down to a single word maturity. Because

308
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:45,240
the average Army ranger, the average and ABC, when they

309
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,720
come in, they can be pretty much straight up the street.

310
00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:51,119
Of course, they go through intensive training, but you're you're

311
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,920
eighteen twenty years old somewhere in that you know, one

312
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,279
or two year time for it. What makes an Army

313
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Special Forces unique at least? And then they changed and

314
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,440
then they kind of went back. It's a pendulum swing.

315
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:07,799
Was that we would not accept anybody until after they

316
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:11,720
have already served their first tour. So if you're eighteen,

317
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,079
you do three years in some other field and then

318
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,559
you can come apply to Special Forces and then you

319
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,920
go through your language training and then you go through

320
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,799
the SFQC and then by then you're what twenty two, right,

321
00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:30,119
and so you're starting to approach the maturity. So my background,

322
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,799
I caught it neuroscience. My PhD was using eg on folks,

323
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,599
so I dabbled. I used to call myself a neuroscientist,

324
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,200
and then I realized, dude, that's BS right. You didn't

325
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,279
discover anything in you just use neuroscientific tools. So anyway,

326
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:49,640
what we know though from that community is the human

327
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,839
brain does not mature, fully mature until you're twenty five

328
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,720
as a male, twenty three as a female, and so

329
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,359
we really a much more mature force with all that

330
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,440
additional training by the time you are awarded your green

331
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,960
beret and you're wearing that, and then from there the

332
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,960
Tier one level is usually years beyond that, so we're

333
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,119
we have a much more mature force, never mind all

334
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,920
the physical training and resilience and the cognition. Now, the

335
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,599
second part is not well known either, and that is

336
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:35,160
that over decades of analysis are our psychologists, which is

337
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,799
a much higher density than the rest of the army.

338
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,559
The rest of the army I used to Again, all

339
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:45,839
this data is dated, but back during the Cold War,

340
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,960
you might have one psychologist or a counselor assigned to

341
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,319
like a brigade, which is fifteen hundred troops, we would

342
00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,359
have one per sixty. So think about that. There's a

343
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,559
lot of cognitive assessment that goes on. And what's very

344
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:11,359
important about that is that when they administer their assessments

345
00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:14,319
or their surveys or whatever you call it, you know,

346
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,799
we're exhausted, you know, the average person that takes an

347
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:22,200
IQ test or takes some sort of psychology test at

348
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,519
ten o'clock in the morning, after you've had your donut

349
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,720
and coffee, you know, so you can kind of figure

350
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:32,359
out what whether or not they want me to answer

351
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:34,599
B or C. There might be one or two fuzzies

352
00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:36,640
in there, but you can kind of figure it out

353
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:41,160
right at ten o'clock at night. You're exhausted, you're bruised

354
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,960
from falling down, you know, the mountain side. You're going

355
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:50,240
to answer that accurately right the way you really feel.

356
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,680
And so our psychologists get a much more crisp perspective

357
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,240
of what's going on up in here. So that's another

358
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:03,559
advantage when when you're dealing with very, very difficult decisions.

359
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,039
And I wanted to point that point out this other

360
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:13,319
aspect because even though I did command a wreckie troop

361
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,680
or reconnaissance troop and they were comprised of snipers, I

362
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,240
was never a sniper. Yes, I had a long gun,

363
00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:24,640
and I would train and I would shoot down range,

364
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:29,079
but I never had to make that decision Matt, where

365
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,440
I'm looking through this scope and there's somebody down range

366
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,720
and I got to decide whether or not to pull

367
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,480
the trigger. Now, of course, were there again a dossier.

368
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,279
Speaker 1: Uh.

369
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: But but here herein lies the problem, and I'm transitioning

370
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,559
obviously into the issue with Jake and his team, is

371
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,960
the morality of that, right, the ethics, because we're presented

372
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:59,240
with this dossier, sometimes fairly thick dossier, uh, and that's

373
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:04,000
provided by the intelligence community saying that this guy are

374
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:09,440
very rare cases, this gal is a bad person, and

375
00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:15,440
deadly force is wanted to eliminate them, take them off

376
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,839
the battlefield. So if we're surveying it, if we're performing

377
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,799
reconnaissance and we see this person slapping their wife around

378
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,359
or beating their kids or wherever it ish. Okay, then

379
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:32,920
you know I've observed it, and if I'm close enough

380
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,759
to hear it and hear what's going on. Again, with

381
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:39,680
their language skills and even smell, you know, those are

382
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:45,759
really critical components of making that decision. So those folks

383
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:50,000
that have to make that decision have a really difficult time.

384
00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:56,839
So what really is problematic? Now as technology removes us

385
00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:01,119
and gets us further and further away. Now he can't hear, now,

386
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,839
we can't smell. Now, we can't see him now we

387
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,240
well you could see him, but on a predator feed,

388
00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:11,039
black and white predator feed. Oh, you're just going based

389
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:14,039
on on the intelligence that you've received. So it makes

390
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:16,799
it a very difficult challenge. So I was never a sniper.

391
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,960
I was a Reki troop commander. And the snipers the

392
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,759
really tough guys with the skill and that and the

393
00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:32,000
really difficult PTSD PTSD creating decisions. Uh, those were those

394
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:32,720
were other folks.

395
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: And when you say Reki troop you mean reconnaissance. True.

396
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sorry I should have clarified that. And again

397
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,319
my heart goes out there, brother, because you know you

398
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,799
folks in the media, you're you're like I was when

399
00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:45,720
I went to the Air Force cadam an Army NUG.

400
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,640
I just finally figured out all the acronyms that the

401
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:53,119
army uses, and now an acronym health. And what's worse,

402
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,519
it's kind of like learning Russian, right, because there's enough

403
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:59,200
letters in the Russian cyrillic alphabet there that are the

404
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,359
same letter like see in Russian is an X, and

405
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,160
so it's just you know, send me to learn Mandarin.

406
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,039
So everything's new. So this acronym hell that you're in,

407
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,480
I sympathize with you.

408
00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:14,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't. I can't imagine.

409
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: So so in terms of Special Forces Tier one operators,

410
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,279
what sort of security clearance would you hold in those positions?

411
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so why disparity there depending on what your background was.

412
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:34,759
So we had folks that literally would try out they

413
00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:36,960
were members of the band. We had a tuba player

414
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,160
come through, a and s We had a we had

415
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,559
a cook. Matter of fact, I love the guy and

416
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,640
he was a phenomenal sniper by the way, tremendous shot.

417
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:51,720
And he got the code named t bone T bone

418
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,640
for state right for cutting the state. And he was brilliant,

419
00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,079
great guy. So there's a lot of that jocularity obviously

420
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,240
that comes with they should find the same thing in

421
00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,960
fire houses and on the police force and so forth.

422
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,319
But you know, the the key aspect of that is

423
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,680
we all have very different uh well, I shouldn't say

424
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,480
very different. The vast majority of folks, you know, come

425
00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:19,519
for the Ranger Regiment, come from infantry backgrounds. Every now

426
00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:23,240
and then you'll get somebody from kind of a way

427
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:27,559
out area like nuclear weapons. I think I'm probably one

428
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:31,319
of the only guys that ever commanded a nuclear capable

429
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,960
unit that ended up there at the unit. It's just

430
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:39,880
it's just so anomalous, right, So I happen to have,

431
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,160
uh you know, s I t K stuff all this

432
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,880
access that other folks didn't have. But on a on

433
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,240
a case by case basis, if it's needed for a

434
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:54,000
particular operation, you know, they'll do an SSBI a sense

435
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:58,640
of secret background investigation, and they'll deal up your clarents

436
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:02,720
as as needed and idanced around that a little bit.

437
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:06,039
Speaker 1: Though hopefully no, that's okay, And in most cases are

438
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:10,079
you to maintain that clearance? Is there a polygraph involved?

439
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't want to get into that that gets

440
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,240
that gets kind of sensitive? Got it? Now, I may

441
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,799
just be dated because back during the Cold War, even

442
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,200
even mentioning that you had a polygraph that was kind

443
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,559
of sensitive stuff. So I would I would rather not

444
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:27,759
dive into that.

445
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: So can I ask you what your what your code

446
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,720
name or a nickname was.

447
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:35,839
Speaker 3: Matt. I would get a new one just about every

448
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,240
month because I was such a screw, right, these guys

449
00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:44,920
barely tolerated me. So my final one was Tadpole. And

450
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,160
and that was a derivative from because I was originally

451
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,079
a bulldog, because I was so stubborn. I mean, look

452
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:52,759
at that fertile slope that screened the end of it, all right,

453
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,279
stubborn And so they're like, you know, he's like a bulldog.

454
00:28:56,279 --> 00:28:59,319
You won't let it go, you know. And then there

455
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:02,119
somebody decided, well, you know that's a little bit too macho,

456
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:06,160
so we'll start calling him bullfrog. But then there was

457
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,240
this tanning motion that came out and it had this

458
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:13,640
big muscle bound guy on the beach right that. So

459
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:16,000
then it was so they had to knock me down

460
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:19,839
another peg to Tadpole. And in one of my cheers,

461
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,799
we had a great we had a great sort of

462
00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:28,839
tradition that nobody could have a macho code name. And

463
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,880
it really made sense tactically, right, because if you know,

464
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,160
we're calling on the carpet at some point down the line,

465
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,759
and we got to testify in front of Congress, and

466
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,880
there's radio transcripts and somebody says that, you know, bubbles

467
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,319
and porky butt stroked somebody in the head. And it

468
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,160
turned out that it wasn't a bad I was a

469
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,640
good guy. That it kind of brings a little bit

470
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,680
of levity to the whole situation, right, So I thought,

471
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,680
I thought it was a brilliant tradition. So yeah, I

472
00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:57,319
had tons of them.

473
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: I would imagine that there's a lot of come lottery

474
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,759
in the special operator community, both during active duty and

475
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:07,240
I would imagine a post active duty.

476
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely. You know, there's something about shared risk in

477
00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:15,640
my in my robotics book, I talk about risk a

478
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,400
lot as a form of love. Matter of fact, I

479
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,440
think it's the definition of love. When you accept risk

480
00:30:20,519 --> 00:30:23,720
on behalf of somebody else. That is a form of love. Now,

481
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,880
paternal risk. You know, if if you're a mom and

482
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,440
you end up mis going to sound crash, I hope

483
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:33,039
maybe you can edit this out. But if you have

484
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,079
spit a bow and ball out of your crotch after

485
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:41,880
nine months right morning sickness, and then that thing's hanging

486
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,759
off of your ted sucking the life out of you.

487
00:30:44,319 --> 00:30:46,880
I mean, you know it wasn't too long ago, a

488
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,160
couple of centuries ago, you were literally risking your life

489
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,319
to bring that child into into the world. So and

490
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,480
then you have uh, fraternal love, you know, where you

491
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,839
have siblings that will fight like like brothers. I you know,

492
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,960
you're at each other's throats, but if somebody else challenges

493
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,119
your brother, you're at them, right, and so you're going

494
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,240
to accept that risk. And even in a professional sense

495
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:16,200
right that you know, you're working for some company and

496
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:20,039
then you see somebody else that is unfairly treated and

497
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,599
you step in and you take the blame. Again, risk

498
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,720
is love. So the longer that that risk is shared,

499
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,599
and the more intense the conditions under which that risk

500
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,519
is shared, that bond gets tighter. And there's there's a

501
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:38,359
lot of literature war literature on my this this side

502
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,480
is the war literature. This side is the UFO literature.

503
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,759
There's a lot of those that that you know, military

504
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:50,279
literature that talks about how the bond between you know,

505
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,160
foxhold buddies is tirder than you get in marriage, and

506
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,400
a lot of that is due to that heightened level

507
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,839
of risk. So yeah, camaraderie is huge, and I think

508
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:04,519
a lot of the reason why you know, so many

509
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:09,279
of our brothers and sisters end up, you know, tempted

510
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:13,359
by suicide is because they missed that camaraderie so much.

511
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,200
It's so important as a source of resilience. So yeah,

512
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,680
that was key that that you brought that up.

513
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: Thank you, No, you're and you're welcome.

514
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:23,839
Speaker 1: And I would imagine that all of you tend to

515
00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:28,680
have pretty high expectations of each other to you know,

516
00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:32,200
to live up to uh, you know, to what you know,

517
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:34,480
to the job you did and what you did in

518
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:35,440
serving the country.

519
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,079
Speaker 2: Would you say that's accurate?

520
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely. I already mentioned how brutal our hot loshes were,

521
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:43,480
but that you know, that's across the military, not just

522
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,559
the places I was aside, and you see some of this.

523
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:52,440
That's why this whole stolen balor movement is is really

524
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,119
getting very intensive, because you know, it's tempting when when

525
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,319
you have been underpaid for the risk that you have taken. Look,

526
00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:08,160
you know, taxpayer dollars not only paid for my bachelor's degree,

527
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,559
but two master's degrees in a PhD. I was overpaid,

528
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,000
probably for the risks I took. But some of the

529
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:18,359
other guys, like the snipers I talked about, the assaulters,

530
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,079
you know, they're underpaid for the level of risk. So

531
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:26,200
it's tempting to kind of embellish a little bit. And

532
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,880
you know, maybe still a few more books than the

533
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,759
Bland story would do. So my heart goes out to

534
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:38,519
those guys. But there's still heroes regardless of theirs inaccuracies,

535
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:40,279
and maybe they took a little bit more credit than

536
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:42,759
they don't. And I'm certainly not going to get into

537
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:45,720
any of that, especially since I wasn't there for most

538
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:48,039
of that stuff. So yeah, it's a big deal.

539
00:33:48,599 --> 00:33:51,279
Speaker 1: Now, tell us a bit about your post military career.

540
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:56,279
You worked at DARPA and you have quite a background

541
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,559
in robotics. Tell us a bit about that.

542
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, after those five command tours, I was kind of

543
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,720
a burned out commando and the personnel folks, the personnel

544
00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:10,679
center folks at the Pentagon basically told me after I

545
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,800
came out of the Command General Staff College that's kind

546
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,800
of a ticket punch on the way to becoming a general.

547
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,360
It's a selected school, so not everybody gets to go,

548
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,280
so it's a big it's a big hurdle, if you will.

549
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,679
And when I was there learning how to become a

550
00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:30,400
staff officer for a general in the hopes that maybe

551
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,920
I would become a general someome day, big of that, right,

552
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,280
They told me that I was a burned out commando

553
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,679
and that I needed to take a break. I really

554
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:42,599
wanted to go right back to the You know, once

555
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:45,079
you get a taste of that, there is no higher

556
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:49,599
level job satisfaction then literally being a phone call away.

557
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,559
The President of United States says okay, you know, and

558
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:54,960
it trickles down through the real dealth de force commander.

559
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,119
By the way, that trickles down to you. The next

560
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,880
thing you know, you know, you're going to plane within

561
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:04,199
a few hours. Had it to God knows where to

562
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,159
solve some problem. Right at that level of job satisfaction

563
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,920
just doesn't exist anywhere else that I know. So I

564
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,119
was really excited to get back, but my wife was

565
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,119
obviously not. She was absolutely sick of it all, hated

566
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,480
it all, and wanted to be a civilian so we

567
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,639
ended up by the by the grace of the big

568
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:29,320
cheese upstairs, and some folks at the Pentagon who were

569
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,880
fooled by some silly IQ test somewhere that they thought

570
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,760
that I would be a good candidate to go to

571
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,280
graduate school. So you and your pack taxpayer dollars paid

572
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,559
for me to go get a master's degree at the

573
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,679
College School of Mind. So thank you for that. So

574
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,559
I ended up going out there to study robotics and

575
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,320
artificial intelligence, and and that wasn't I ended up getting

576
00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:01,039
into rescue robotics, but it wasn't quite as honorable as

577
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:02,639
you might think. I wanted to be an astroan. I

578
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,679
was going to be an astroan. I figured, well, geez,

579
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,719
if I go study robots, And this is mid nineties, right, Pathfinder,

580
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,559
we're putting rovers on Mars. I'm like, well, I'm not

581
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,519
a pilot. I didn't you know I had my orders

582
00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:17,559
to revoked to go to the Navy to be a

583
00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:21,199
jet jockey. So maybe if I'm a robot keeyk, maybe

584
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,119
NASSA might be interested in that. And since we're going

585
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:26,760
to be wandering around on the moon, not on the moon,

586
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,920
I'm Mars, You're going to need somebody that knows how

587
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,679
to navigate on the land. Now, look, I was I

588
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,480
did some of the first testing of GPS portable GPS

589
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:39,719
is for the DoD and I'm convinced it was only

590
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,840
because I was lost more than anybody else. So they're like, hey,

591
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:46,599
this guy at gizmo and he makes it onto the

592
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:49,760
beach and back up to his objective. Yeah, maybe there's

593
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,599
something to it. So that's what I originally went to

594
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:59,800
grad school to study. And that took a serious right

595
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:05,360
hand intern after Timothy McVay blew up the Murrah Building

596
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,880
on Aple nineteen, nineteen ninety five, because I ended up

597
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,000
volunteering to go there. I had taken my flat aptitude

598
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:17,079
test to become the Navy fighter jock in that building.

599
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Some of the people I knew almost exactly ten years ago,

600
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,320
ten years press. So I ended up down there and

601
00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:28,440
just helping, you know, pull part of the bucket brigade.

602
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,960
You know, you probably saw this in the World Trades

603
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,079
Share as well as buckets. You know, you're just daintily

604
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,480
picking apart the rubble because there still could be people

605
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:40,000
in there. It's a very, very tedious, but it's also

606
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:43,280
a very surgical process and the problem in both those

607
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,519
instances it was a crime scene. It was considered more

608
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:50,039
of a crime scene during the Oklahoma City bombing, of course,

609
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,639
and so only people with security cleanses could become volunteers.

610
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:58,920
Everybody else was held outside the proven It's really unfortunate.

611
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,199
So anyway, I came from that, back from that, and

612
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,519
I was I was very emotionally affected by that, and

613
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:13,000
I decided to dive into rescue robotics. It really wasn't

614
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,400
a field at that point, and so that's that's where

615
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,960
I went, and that's that's uh, that's how I got into.

616
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: Robot will And this was at DARPA.

617
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: That was at the Colorado School of Mine. So here's

618
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,480
the thing, okay, is I'm a military student, so I

619
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:33,039
have to justify the military funding. And you know, it's

620
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:35,960
not the military's job to go rescue people after a

621
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,719
collapsed building. That's the fire, right, So I had to

622
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,480
find a three ft not just a two for a

623
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:44,519
three for because I wanted to be an astronaut. So

624
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:46,880
I had to figure an angle on that. And it

625
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,480
turned out that Darren Golden had just taken over as

626
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:55,039
the NAS administration with smaller, better cheaper, so little robots, right,

627
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,719
because I think at that time it was three thousand

628
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,039
dollars per bounce to put something into orbit, and so

629
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:05,960
the smaller little guys figure. So I'm like, yeah, little

630
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,719
robot's good for that. Little robots are also good for

631
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,199
sneaking up underneath arp wire and getting the sneaking their

632
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,239
way into an objective as part of our reconnaissance effort.

633
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,280
And then it turned out from Oklahoma City, the big

634
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,480
bunk takeaway there was, you know, these trapped victims. It's

635
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:28,360
a horrific decision for an incident commander to have to

636
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,679
make the decision to transition from a rescue effort into

637
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,079
a recovery effort. And what that means is we're going

638
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:41,800
to bring in the big cranes and bulldozers and start

639
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,480
removing big chunks of debris. And that there's a big

640
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:48,679
problem with that, right because if somebody's still trapped on it,

641
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,559
you may squash it in the process of trying to

642
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:55,760
rescue them. So it's a really challenging effort. And so

643
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,400
I came away with the niche there of slipping down

644
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:04,519
into that rubble and you know, with a tether towing

645
00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:08,280
an air hose or a water hose or a microphone

646
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:11,159
so he can talk to the victims and tell everybody, well, oh,

647
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,639
hang Allen, there's still somebody alive down here, right, And

648
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:21,519
that turned out to be beneficial enough for the DoD

649
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,920
to kind of really get excited about it. So Special

650
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,719
Operations Command got excited about it because it allowed us

651
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,079
to look for wn D in places where people were

652
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:36,400
hiding him so us so COOM got excited about it,

653
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,000
and then DARPA got excited about it as sort of

654
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,159
maybe the potential for future technology development. So that's how

655
00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:47,960
after a couple of years at SOCOM with a with

656
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:51,320
a fabulous boss. His name was Doug Brown. He was

657
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,480
a one star general at that time, but he ended

658
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:56,280
up rising through the ranks as he should have and

659
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,880
became a four star general. So from there I ended

660
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,599
up at DARPA. That's how I got to DARTA.

661
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 2: Got it? Got it? Okay?

662
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: So doctor Blinch, Before we get into the whole Jake

663
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,599
Barber thing, which is why we're primarily here, I have

664
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,760
to ask when you were active duty, were you, uh

665
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,320
number one, did you ever see any UAP, especially being

666
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,920
part of a nuclear in intermediate range system?

667
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,639
Speaker 2: No, UAPs or anything there.

668
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: Let me see, I've had some interesting experiences throughout my lifetime.

669
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:42,159
But at and I just to be clear, I was

670
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,519
in uniform when I was at DARTA. I was a

671
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:49,480
lieutenant colonel at DARPA as a program manager, and I

672
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:53,679
retired out of DARPA. Uh And interestingly enough in that

673
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,039
this is this is the source of a lot of

674
00:41:56,039 --> 00:41:58,480
conspiracy stuff. There are guys that that claimed that I

675
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:02,320
was part of the I was trying to cover up

676
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,719
evidence at Oklahoma City because I was a crazy Special

677
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,000
Forces major. What's a Special Forces major doing mixed in

678
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,599
with all these firefighters, you know? And the truth is

679
00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:15,719
crazier than the seams that I had taken a service transfer,

680
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,880
you know, flight aptitude test there, blah blah blah. So anyway,

681
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,199
I was on active duty at DARK but I retired

682
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,280
out of active out of DARPA, and I signed out

683
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,800
from the Pentagon on the tenth of September two thousand

684
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:30,079
and one.

685
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: Got it.

686
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,159
Speaker 1: And as in terms of like your your work in

687
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:40,000
the government, were you ever part of any UAP related program?

688
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 3: Now, I was read in on a number of SAPs

689
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:51,079
special access programs. There's operational SAPs, then there's technological SAPs.

690
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,719
An operational SAP is obviously intended to protect that operation,

691
00:42:57,199 --> 00:43:01,159
and then when the operation is wrapped up and done,

692
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,079
that doesn't mean you stop protecting it because it might

693
00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:11,320
involve assets or people that are still undercover. Technological SAPs

694
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,960
tend to last longer, right because look at the be

695
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,360
the one seventeen, the F one seventeen. Right, that stuff

696
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,199
was developed back in the seventies, and we used it

697
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:26,119
in the Gulf War twenty years later with wonderful effect.

698
00:43:26,519 --> 00:43:28,840
Aren't you believe we've reduced that from a two or

699
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,599
three year war to one hundred days and that technology

700
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:36,280
played no small world. So there are technological SAPs, there

701
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,159
are operational snaps. Neither of those, any of those that

702
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:42,800
I was read into, had anything to do with UAP

703
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:43,360
that I know.

704
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's jump into the heart of the matter. Whistleblower

705
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:51,320
Jake Barber, this is you on News Nation with journalist

706
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:52,480
Ross Coulthard.

707
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 4: Let's watch and one of his most fervent supporters is

708
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,920
Colonel John Blitch, a Renaissance warrior who hold a doctorate

709
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,400
in psychology, was a Delta Force sniper and is one

710
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,760
of the few men to hold doomsday in his hands,

711
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:12,519
commanding a nuclear weapons battalion. So you believe Jake Baba

712
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:15,920
is telling you absolutely there has been a cover up

713
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:17,119
lasting eighty years.

714
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:19,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we've recovered craft.

715
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

716
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: That was fantastic.

717
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: So how did you get involved in the entire Jake

718
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:28,440
Barber story?

719
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,119
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, actually Dave Grush reached out to me Brusher Grush.

720
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:34,920
I mean, you know, he used to call him Dave Grush.

721
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,840
Now folks call him Dave Brush. He's like, call me whatever.

722
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:40,719
He's such an approachable guy. He's a wonderful man and

723
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,920
again a hero by any standard in my mind. But

724
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:50,320
Dave was struggling obviously after all the folks that came

725
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:56,159
after him, and he suffered horribly after that. So but

726
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:02,280
you know again even post post PTSD, right, So like

727
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:09,000
a P three PTSD, right, he wanted to encourage others

728
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:13,000
to come out, not just to benefit him. Right, It

729
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:16,360
helped him because a lot of criticism against him was, hey, look,

730
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:19,880
you didn't see a craft, you didn't see an alien.

731
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:23,719
How can you be claimings right? And so you know,

732
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:28,920
it's it's just a classic narrow minded people that can't

733
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:34,559
can't you know, embrace other information outside their their narrow

734
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,840
you know, soda straw. So Dave reached out to me

735
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:42,760
and said he knew some other folks who did have

736
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:49,079
firsthand knowledge, but they were very worried because of the

737
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:53,239
backlash that could be taken against them, and so he

738
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:57,400
told them that, you know, he knew a guy. Well,

739
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,679
he told me that they just they just needed a

740
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:05,159
little bit of leadership. They needed to hear some of

741
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:10,360
your stories and convince them that it's going to be okay, uh,

742
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:15,280
and that and that the alternative is way works. And

743
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,840
we see this all the time where people keep things

744
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,000
buttoned up for years and then on their deathbed, you know,

745
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:25,119
they come clean and and it's it's a sort of

746
00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:29,159
a horrific thing. So he asked me to meet with

747
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:34,159
these guys because at least one of them was a

748
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:37,280
Tier one operator. Now I want to be very clear here,

749
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,480
Jake Barber never told me he was a Tier one operator.

750
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:48,320
He never claimed to be a CCT active CCT operator.

751
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:54,800
He did claim and showed me documentation that he went

752
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,880
through the pre training to go through the CCT pipeline.

753
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: And what is and I'm sorry, what is c.

754
00:47:01,119 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 3: CCT is combat controller. It's the air force rough equivalent

755
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:08,960
of a green beret who goes they wear a different

756
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,480
color beret whatever, but none of us wear it into

757
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:14,320
the woods and all those pictures of people in berets

758
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,920
and it's laughable because it's not a very functional headgear.

759
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,480
Then you get the rain off you for crying out loud.

760
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,639
Your booty hats are way better than that keep the

761
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,599
rain from falling down your net. So that's a rubbing joke.

762
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,800
But anyway, so they would parachute behind enemy lines and

763
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:37,119
they would essentially be air traffic controllers. Right, so if

764
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:41,679
you have five or even anything more than one aircraft

765
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,920
orbiting over an area to support troops on the ground,

766
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:49,679
you kind of need somebody independent of those two aircraft

767
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:51,800
to tell which one to turn right, which one to

768
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,599
turn left. Of course, they're going to do the best

769
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:58,159
they can to deconflict, but it's especially more especially difficult

770
00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:01,119
when you have a fast mover. You know, think Maverick

771
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:04,880
coming in with a C one thirty with paratroopers coming

772
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,239
out step. It gets to be complicated. And then you

773
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,920
add a third aircraft and a four aircraft. Think of

774
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,960
the multi body problem right from astronomy, uh, the three

775
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,639
body problem right where the so it gets really complicated.

776
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:25,079
So those guys are air traffic controllers who also double

777
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,880
as you know, marksmen and scuba qualified, halo qualified guys

778
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,719
to do pretty much anything that we did, you know, variants.

779
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,199
It's like I said before, nobody's better than the other.

780
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:39,880
It's just different jobs. So that's what the CCT does.

781
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,480
And then you have pj's Power Rescue Jumpers who focus

782
00:48:43,559 --> 00:48:48,519
on their medics and they focus on patching together a

783
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:53,440
down pilot and stabilizing that patient until they can get

784
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:59,119
the METAVAC, so so they're there that those are. And

785
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:02,559
then there's some JAX who are focused on calling in

786
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,119
artillery not artillery fire. I'm familiar with that. I used

787
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:08,599
to call in close air as well, but things change,

788
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:11,559
you get more sophisticated, and you really need somebody that

789
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,000
is familiar with the type of ordinance and how to

790
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,000
place that ordinance to guide the aircraft so that they

791
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,920
don't shoot friendlies. So those are the three primary specialties

792
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,480
within the Air Force Ground Pounder Special Tactics world. There

793
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,400
are also weathermen which are very very important, as we

794
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,880
know from the Eagle Claw in nineteen seventy nine issue

795
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,159
where we went into Iran to try to pull the

796
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,719
hostages out, et cetera. Weather played a big part in that,

797
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,039
with the dust onm the haboobs that really pretty much

798
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,239
devastated that aerial insertion mission.

799
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,639
Speaker 1: Okay, so David Gresh reaches out to you and says,

800
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,880
I've got whistleblowers with first hand knowledge in terms of

801
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:02,480
UAP craft or evil, et cetera. Did he indicate that

802
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:06,840
any of these whistleblowers were hesitant to come forward due

803
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,760
to what they saw had happened to Dave himself?

804
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, wow, Oh yeah, that was a prominent factor.

805
00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: That was.

806
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: They were very worried about that.

807
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,199
Speaker 2: So what did you do to allay their fears?

808
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,639
Speaker 3: Well, you know the main You know, these are courageous

809
00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:27,760
people by nature, So it wasn't like I had to

810
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:34,320
inject any courage in them. Uh. What what I wanted

811
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,519
to do was to inspire them and just just give

812
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:45,079
them a friendly ear. You're not crazy, you There are

813
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,760
are hundreds of thousand millions of us who have had

814
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:58,519
these anomalous experiences, and we we are on the verge

815
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,039
of being dragged, kicking and screaming, and I'll say it,

816
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:08,800
into a galactic society out there, and so I think

817
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,639
he just wanted them to have an open ear that

818
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:18,480
wasn't just judgmental and dismissive. And so when I told that, so,

819
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:24,639
you know, this is part of what I call corrosive

820
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:30,360
leadership that is behind this eighty year cover up.

821
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.

822
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: It is corrosive when you compartment and you tell this

823
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:40,119
person you can't talk to this person even though they're

824
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:44,079
on the same dog on team. That breaks down the

825
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:50,639
cohesion that our military depends upon. And the Air Force

826
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,679
being the youngest service, you know, prior to the Space Force,

827
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,920
and Space Force is a derivative of the Air Force.

828
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,639
They really are still under the Secretary of the Air Force,

829
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,440
the Department of the Air Force. This compartmentation is absolutely

830
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:09,280
inherently corrosive. And so when someone comes to me, if

831
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,599
one of my troops came to me and reported an

832
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:17,960
anomalous activity out on an op and observation post, and

833
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:22,519
every time they did that, I berated them and treated

834
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:25,960
them like they were a criminal, and separated them and

835
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,079
interrogated them and tortured them. In some cases, like Terry Lovelace,

836
00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:36,119
ass like Mario Woods has a number of John Burrows,

837
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:39,320
a lot of these guys were treated horribly as if

838
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,239
they were the terrorists. So how does that How does

839
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:48,440
that affect our military? It breaks apart of cohesion. We

840
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:51,960
need to be sympathetic and compassionate. And let's not even

841
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:58,719
talk about all of the millions of civilian experiences in Nice.

842
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:02,639
So within this this element, especially since they were all

843
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:08,239
a cohesive team, all four of them, and two of

844
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,559
them were verified Tier one operators, you know, I have

845
00:53:11,679 --> 00:53:17,840
the validation of them. Neither Jake nor Don Paul claimed

846
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,280
that they were Tier one operators. They and and that's

847
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,320
up for them to deal with. But Fred most definitely was,

848
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,159
and so they just Dave wanted them to hear from

849
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:34,159
somebody at I guess a little bit higher rank. Again,

850
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:37,599
I'm middle management. I'm not a flag officer, but a

851
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:40,559
field greade officer is high enough up in the realm

852
00:53:40,639 --> 00:53:46,599
to be actionable, you know, to to punish someone or

853
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:50,199
to intervene in that punishment. And so Dave felt that

854
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,960
I might be able to nudge them into coming forward.

855
00:53:56,639 --> 00:53:59,079
Speaker 2: So tell us about when you first met them.

856
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: You told me the story, and I think it is

857
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:03,639
just absolutely fabulous.

858
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,119
Speaker 2: This is like a straight out of a Bond movie.

859
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,159
Speaker 1: So so Dave, Dave, as you get in touch with

860
00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:13,039
these guys, tell us about when you met them in person.

861
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 3: Well, I would think it's more like Spies r Us

862
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:19,519
with Dan Ackroyd and Chevy Chase.

863
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:21,199
Speaker 2: But that's a great movie.

864
00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 3: So it was a fascinating experience because they wanted to

865
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,639
meet someplace neutral because they didn't know if I was,

866
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,599
you know, part of the military industrial complex is going

867
00:54:33,639 --> 00:54:36,599
to take him out right, And Dave told him that

868
00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:38,320
I was a Tier one guy. And again I hate

869
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,360
that terminology, but it is what it is. It's out there,

870
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:47,280
so I'll use it. So they were nervous about me, uh,

871
00:54:47,639 --> 00:54:50,519
and I was a little bit nervous about them because

872
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,519
Dave gave them a little bit of background on him,

873
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:55,400
and they were worried, you know that we might have

874
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:01,519
some friendly on friendly you know, interdiction if you will,

875
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:08,159
or lethal force harm. So the original plan was that

876
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,280
Dave was a big guy himself. I mean, I would

877
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,119
not want to meet up with Dave brush and see

878
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:19,480
him angry in an alleyway. Same thing with Ross Coltart

879
00:55:19,639 --> 00:55:22,639
right black belt, he's got martial arts training. He and

880
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:27,079
I both idolized Chuck Norris and They're both really big guys, right,

881
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,599
And so I'm the stubby, little Neanderthal. What am I

882
00:55:29,639 --> 00:55:31,760
going to do? I'm might pick up a boulder and

883
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,480
throw it at him. So the plan was that we

884
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,599
were all going to meet out on the West coast

885
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:43,880
and meet aboard my sailboat and go for a sale.

886
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:46,320
And so I figured, well, if I go, if I

887
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,239
got Dave and Ross on my side, three against four, yeah,

888
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,000
it might get a little bloody, but we can probably

889
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:56,039
hand it. So it just turned out that the congressional

890
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:00,480
meetings were all spinning up in DC, so US has

891
00:56:00,519 --> 00:56:04,039
to stay there nextra day. And Dave is still worried

892
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:06,480
because he's getting threats he ain't going to d C.

893
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,760
So I end up me alone meeting these four big dudes,

894
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:18,320
and two of them are MMA champions, and so I'm

895
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:22,079
getting a little nervous, right, and so I pick up

896
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:26,559
place and uh, it was a little warming up type

897
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,679
of situation, you know, trade caft, you do this public place, uh,

898
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,800
and you and I go through the procedure of observing

899
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,960
him from afar for a while, and so them approach

900
00:56:38,199 --> 00:56:42,679
and I got I got to tell you the mannerisms, uh,

901
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,440
the cohesion it felt like I was right back on one

902
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,760
of my teams. I mean, we instantly jumped, but I

903
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,039
still have my guard up and I wanted to be careful.

904
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:59,440
And so the big breakthrough was that I felt comfortable

905
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:03,760
enough to bring him, you know, into marine, onto the boat.

906
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,480
But before we left the harbor and they slipped my

907
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:10,639
throat and dump me overboard for the sharks right and

908
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,000
sail my boat off somewhere and scuttle it right right,

909
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:19,360
I wanted to, you know, do a little bona fidi.

910
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,280
So basically what I told him is, hey, look, you know,

911
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,519
one of the things that I think is lacking in

912
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,280
the leadership that you guys have been under is that

913
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:37,079
that leaders pull, managers push, and so as a leader,

914
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:39,920
I'm going to take the risk first. So I laid

915
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,800
out three forms of identification. I showed them my passport,

916
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:46,559
I showed them my driver's license, and I showed them

917
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:49,800
my military ID. Now, any one of those you might

918
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,199
be able to fake, but all three of them, you know,

919
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,320
that's kind of difficult. And what I was looking for

920
00:57:57,039 --> 00:58:00,840
was hesitation, and I was looking primary early for them

921
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,159
to look at each other like, oh crap, now we're screwed.

922
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:06,480
I was, I gotta tell you, man, I was ready

923
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,760
to dive off that boat. I thought. I thought they

924
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,639
were gonna, you know, wrestle me, take me down below,

925
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,800
sail away whatever, right, and and they were thinking the

926
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,760
same thing about me, right, And so it was a

927
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,960
really interesting stand up. But as soon there was no hesitation,

928
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,159
everybody but in some several of them, a couple of

929
00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:30,920
them pulled out two forms of identification kind of to

930
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,039
match me. And so that's when all the chill everything

931
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:38,199
thawed and we went out and had a great chat.

932
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,960
We wanted to be you know, uh in a safe

933
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:44,360
environment that we could share stories without any chance of

934
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:50,000
being recorded. Doc Ball turned out, you know, he was

935
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:52,800
he was carrying a sidearm, and I think his job

936
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,000
was probably to take me up behind the ear and

937
00:58:56,039 --> 00:58:58,880
he was kind of shadowing me the whole time while

938
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,519
I was driving a boat. You look at and very inquisitive.

939
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:04,199
He's a he's a really sharp guy. They're all very

940
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,519
very smart. And he was curious about, you know, the display,

941
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:10,400
the chart plotter and all the rest of this stuff

942
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,199
and how to do this and how to do that.

943
00:59:12,639 --> 00:59:14,199
And in the back of my mind it was only

944
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,440
by this time it was only about a five percent worry.

945
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,639
But I'm thinking, you know, why is he so interested?

946
00:59:19,719 --> 00:59:22,159
Is he the guy that's going to sail the boat

947
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:23,639
back after they come me over for it?

948
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: Right?

949
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's looking for a training training lesson there.

950
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:30,639
Speaker 3: Yes, So it was hilarious and then things settled down.

951
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,159
We had a couple of beers and everything relaxed, and

952
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:34,719
then it was then it was on.

953
00:59:35,639 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: That's that's fantastic.

954
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:41,039
Speaker 1: So when Jake is telling you his story, what was

955
00:59:41,119 --> 00:59:43,519
going through your mind as he's telling this to you.

956
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 3: Well, I always look for you know, and I used

957
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,840
to teach my cadets to look for inconsistencies. Right. This

958
00:59:53,960 --> 01:00:02,000
generation of cadets, especially Air Force cadets, are are really

959
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:05,239
in a difficult position, right because with the magic of

960
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,320
the Internet, you have all this information and you've got

961
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,639
to sort out information versus disinformation, and you've got to

962
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:16,880
go through the A one source and information to the

963
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,639
F six or whatever. Uh, very very difficult. And so

964
01:00:23,199 --> 01:00:28,400
I was looking for inconsistencies across all of it. Didn't

965
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:33,159
find it, didn't find any inconsistencies. Everything would track. Now.

966
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:38,079
Of course, one of the things that that was an

967
01:00:38,119 --> 01:00:42,360
anomaly to me is Wait a minute, why would why

968
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,079
would they? Why would the Air Force spend all this

969
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:49,760
money to put this guy through pre CCT training. I

970
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,519
mean that's four months, that's that's a that's an investment. Yeah,

971
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:56,320
that's not Yeah, why did you do that and that

972
01:00:56,719 --> 01:01:00,960
and then not send to CCT school, Right, that's kind

973
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,360
of weird. And then why why give them such a

974
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:14,639
such a a sort of unrelated john as an aircraft

975
01:01:14,719 --> 01:01:18,639
mchann And so all of this is in a lot

976
01:01:18,679 --> 01:01:21,960
of the scuttle butt that you send me. I try

977
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,159
to ignore it. I've been coached about this for quite

978
01:01:25,199 --> 01:01:28,400
a while. Lou coached me, honest, Dave coached me on Look,

979
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:35,360
just youve got to ignore the naysayers and the ridiculous skeptics. Now,

980
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:40,239
there's there's a difference between healthy skepticism scientific skepticism, which

981
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,400
is should not only be tolerated, should be embraced and

982
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:48,400
address it. But some of this is just classic ignorance,

983
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,679
you know, like where's the where's the dust? There's no

984
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,280
dust below the helicopter, dude, the freaking the helicopters one

985
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,760
hundred and fifty feet above ground, they're out of ground effect.

986
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,559
And the vast majority of that desert floor is scrub

987
01:02:04,639 --> 01:02:09,880
it's the that it doesn't move. I've slept on that service.

988
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:14,079
It's like hard as a rock, and so there's no dust.

989
01:02:14,119 --> 01:02:17,760
Come on, you're just showing your ignorance, that's all that is.

990
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:24,480
So here's the thing is he claimed to go knock

991
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,760
non official cover and if he was groomed for that,

992
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:32,039
do you think they would have left the paper trail

993
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,119
of everything that that So I've talked to Jacob linked

994
01:02:37,159 --> 01:02:41,519
about this and since that that program aired, and we

995
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:43,679
as soon as you said the word, I was like, yes,

996
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,440
that that captures it. Sheep did, right, And so you

997
01:02:47,559 --> 01:02:50,239
sheep dip someone. You give him the training to get

998
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,679
the credibility and so that they had the right skills

999
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:56,920
so that when they leave the military, you can use

1000
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,639
them in what you want to use him for, which

1001
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,480
was this sort of work. And so yeah, they sent

1002
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:05,760
him to school of school. Yeah, they sent him to

1003
01:03:06,239 --> 01:03:09,639
jump school. Yeah. Tom Palm never claimed he was a

1004
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:13,679
Green Beret, he never, but they went through some of

1005
01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:18,320
this training so that after they left the military and

1006
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:22,480
went into that different line of work that requires deep,

1007
01:03:22,519 --> 01:03:25,920
deep cover. Yeah, that makes sense, and that's what you

1008
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,199
want the world to believe. You want the world to

1009
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,360
think that all this guy failed out of CCT training

1010
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,400
and he's he's washed up or whatever, because that's what

1011
01:03:35,639 --> 01:03:39,239
allows you to do this this other work. So all

1012
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:45,119
of that and the documentation and then including the quote

1013
01:03:45,559 --> 01:03:50,480
missing documentation that novices expect should be there, they're just

1014
01:03:50,519 --> 01:03:53,840
showing that they're not educated. They're not they don't have

1015
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,360
the experience in the realm. So I didn't find any inconsistencies.

1016
01:03:58,199 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this is the one area that I wanted

1017
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:02,800
to bring up where I think that there are a

1018
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,800
lot of people. I mean, yes, you know, you've got

1019
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,559
the debunkers that are are clearly out to just spread

1020
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:14,760
disinformation and discredit this this this patriot by any way

1021
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:19,960
way shape possible. But what this this thing of him

1022
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:25,800
being working as a contractor under non official cover? What

1023
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,360
is what do you mean by nonoficial cover? What is that?

1024
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,639
Why do you even why would you have it? Why

1025
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:38,360
would he go under that or anyone in that particular path.

1026
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 3: Well, I want to tread lightly here, and it's not

1027
01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:47,039
because I'm worried about you know, somebody throw me in

1028
01:04:47,119 --> 01:04:49,840
jail or whatever. I think in my behind the Science

1029
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,719
interview back in twenty fourteen. That's on my LinkedIn page.

1030
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,199
I talk about this, but I'll try to summarize as well.

1031
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:02,719
You know, I'm going in trouble all my life. I'm not.

1032
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,920
I don't you know. That's not the motivation. The motivation

1033
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:09,239
is to protect other people that are still doing this work.

1034
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,599
So that's why I want to tread it lightly. Now,

1035
01:05:13,559 --> 01:05:17,519
if you know, as a military person, you are on

1036
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,079
roles in the military and you enjoy the protection of

1037
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,320
the Geneva Convention. Now a lot of irrational state actors

1038
01:05:26,639 --> 01:05:30,840
or terrorists don't honor those right, but it does give

1039
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,119
you some protection depending on where you're at or whatever.

1040
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:40,079
When you're deep undercover and you have credentials that are

1041
01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:45,559
not your real name, that's a whole different world. And

1042
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:48,480
I will tell you from personal experience, it ain't fun.

1043
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:53,199
It isn't you know, the glorified James Bond. You know,

1044
01:05:53,519 --> 01:05:59,119
aspect of it. It is a nightmare because you're constantly worried.

1045
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:02,119
The stress is off the charts, because what if you

1046
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:06,480
run into somebody in some crazy place that knows you

1047
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,400
You're going to lose that friend? Jump? What what'd you

1048
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,760
call me? I don't know who the heck you're talking

1049
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,039
about dude, have a good one. It's one of my

1050
01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:17,400
classmates for a the academy, you know, and you've got

1051
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:22,159
to tell him, dude, you got the wrong guy. Have

1052
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:24,639
a great day, and you and you've just got to

1053
01:06:24,639 --> 01:06:30,199
dismiss yourself. And so it's and you're constantly worried about

1054
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,400
what if I'm recognized, especially nowadays right with all the surveyors,

1055
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,119
technology all the place, any city in the world, any

1056
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:41,840
large city in the world, cameras everywhere. So it's terrifically stressful.

1057
01:06:42,599 --> 01:06:48,440
And so that's why all of those guys have taken

1058
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:53,239
extreme risk on behalf of our country and yet here

1059
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:57,480
are people trying to tear them down. I'm not okay

1060
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:02,159
with that. It's an enormous risk. And you can imagine

1061
01:07:02,159 --> 01:07:05,639
why you have to do right is you know, if

1062
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:08,679
you want to stay ahead of your adversaries, you need

1063
01:07:08,719 --> 01:07:12,519
to know whether w D are right. And so it's

1064
01:07:12,519 --> 01:07:16,199
a it's a real challenge. So my my hat is

1065
01:07:16,239 --> 01:07:21,360
off to both of those guys, Don Paul and and

1066
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,360
Jake for the risk they accepted by going non official cover.

1067
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:29,679
And you can see, you know plenty of the you know,

1068
01:07:29,719 --> 01:07:33,039
there was a mission impossible movie about it's all about

1069
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:36,320
the knock List and how important that is. Uh and

1070
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,679
it is very very important.

1071
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,159
Speaker 1: So doctor Blitch tell us about a bit about the

1072
01:07:43,159 --> 01:07:45,199
the other individuals that were on the boat with you,

1073
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:49,239
the folks that were in ross coltheart's special that vouched

1074
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,440
for Jake and what he what his claims were.

1075
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so havn't spent some time with them. They again,

1076
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:04,320
no inconsistencies across them, and it was clear that they

1077
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:09,519
were tight, a cohesive unit. There was a fourth member

1078
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:11,239
that I'm not going to talk about now. I'm not

1079
01:08:11,239 --> 01:08:13,960
going to mention his name or anything about that him

1080
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:19,359
because he he needs to uh knock him out. But

1081
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,840
these guys were tight. Their demeanor, of their conversation, their

1082
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:29,239
body language, everything about them. Again, no inconsistencies. Now, look,

1083
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,880
you know, when I did a very short stint undercover,

1084
01:08:33,119 --> 01:08:36,079
I wasn't good at it. I just you know, I

1085
01:08:36,079 --> 01:08:38,520
could come up with a cover for action, cover verstats,

1086
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,119
you know, but I just I just wasn't good at it.

1087
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:45,119
So these guys would have had to been like a

1088
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:49,520
list actors I think to have pulled that off. Maybe,

1089
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:51,880
you know, because I didn't see anybody slip in any way,

1090
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,920
shape or form. And that was just on the boat.

1091
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:57,079
And then we met each other and talked that length afterwards,

1092
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,560
and it just it just it just hit me solid.

1093
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:06,119
You know, they're they're all pretty devout Christians. Most of

1094
01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:11,560
them are pretty devout Christians. Uh. Strong family values. I met.

1095
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:17,000
I met wives, sons, daughters, Uh. Hanging out in a

1096
01:09:17,119 --> 01:09:22,359
very relaxed setting, no inconsistency, no alarm bells. The one

1097
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:26,399
alarm bell documentation was that CCT thing. You know, why

1098
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,039
would you do this without sending a guy? Well, when

1099
01:09:29,039 --> 01:09:32,680
I went through SCOPA school, before the Army would send

1100
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,880
anybody down to Key West to go through the combat

1101
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,600
dive course, which is very challenging. I'd say one of

1102
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,159
the most challenging courses there is because humans, we don't

1103
01:09:44,199 --> 01:09:47,039
like to drown and and and you are on the

1104
01:09:47,159 --> 01:09:50,079
edge of drowning in that course, just like Buz right,

1105
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,279
it feels, you know, facing the stuff that they go through.

1106
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,960
It's it's horrific. We all all fear drowning. That's why

1107
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:02,640
waterboarding works. I had to say it. So anyway, before

1108
01:10:03,159 --> 01:10:07,720
the United States Army would send soldiers down to this

1109
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:13,319
vacation paradise, of Key West. They would make sure that

1110
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,039
they were going to pass, and there were some pretty

1111
01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:20,359
stupid things that they would do because if they would figure, say, yeah,

1112
01:10:20,399 --> 01:10:24,279
these this horrific exercise called a crossover where you'd have

1113
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:26,079
to hold your breath blah blah up to tell about

1114
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:28,720
that some of the time and after, you know, the

1115
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:34,239
average human could do about four of these breath holding exercises,

1116
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:43,880
very intensive, and so eventually you know that the rumor

1117
01:10:44,079 --> 01:10:46,520
was that, well, when you get down there, you got

1118
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,680
to do eleven or twelve. And so the people at

1119
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,159
Fort Bragg figured, well, if you got to do twelve

1120
01:10:52,199 --> 01:10:53,800
down there, we're going to make sure that you can

1121
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,359
do thirteen up here for fourteen. But then the taxpayer

1122
01:10:58,399 --> 01:11:00,960
dollars to go down there. But they didn't realize is

1123
01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:07,279
that the schoolhouse had already calculated to minute detail how

1124
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:10,159
much the average human can handle. And there was a

1125
01:11:10,159 --> 01:11:15,119
CCT guy in my pre scuba class who had a

1126
01:11:15,119 --> 01:11:20,039
shallow water blackout. He drowned. They hauled him away in

1127
01:11:20,039 --> 01:11:22,640
an ambulance, and I was in the middle of one

1128
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,840
of these crossovers, and I'm like, you know, so there's

1129
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,079
not to get the details. But if you if you

1130
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:30,760
try to cheap because you can't. You just can't hold

1131
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,880
your breath any longer, and you pop to the service

1132
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:38,279
to sneak a little little breath. The instructors, they don't

1133
01:11:38,279 --> 01:11:41,000
have scuba taxer on. They're very agile. They they will

1134
01:11:41,079 --> 01:11:43,840
jump on your shoulders, just like in water polo, and

1135
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,600
they will push you to the bottom of the floor

1136
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,119
and then you're screwed because you've missed your opportunity to

1137
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:51,800
get a little breath on the other side before you

1138
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:55,399
turn back around. So it was like the fourteenth crossover

1139
01:11:55,439 --> 01:12:00,119
and I'm like, I try to sneak a breath and

1140
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:03,000
nobody jumps on me. And then I get to the

1141
01:12:03,039 --> 01:12:06,680
other wall and I'm looking around and there's there's an ambulance,

1142
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:10,199
there's sirens, there's red lights, and they're pulling this guy

1143
01:12:10,239 --> 01:12:12,600
out of the water. And so he had pushed his

1144
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:17,520
body beyond the limits and he had he had passed

1145
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,840
out Matt calling a shallow water blackout, and his legs

1146
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,560
were still thinning. His head was against the side of

1147
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,199
the pool and he was doing this and so the

1148
01:12:26,239 --> 01:12:29,880
instructors were like, well, he must still be conscious, and

1149
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:32,800
then somebody finally realized, oh crap, and they dove in

1150
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,960
and saved him, and he ended up going back through

1151
01:12:36,239 --> 01:12:41,720
graduating and I saw him at king Fod Airbase years

1152
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:46,399
later as a CCT guy was phenomenal. So that's why

1153
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,359
you would do that. You would you would train this

1154
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,960
guy and make sure that you don't waste a bunch

1155
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:59,359
of taxpayer dollars and everybody's time by sending somebody through

1156
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:04,039
that that really very rigorous course of work if they

1157
01:13:04,039 --> 01:13:06,640
weren't physically up for work. Not to mention, you're checking for,

1158
01:13:07,199 --> 01:13:15,039
you know, injuries or physical incapacitation that the medical exams

1159
01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:19,720
that the doctors give can't catch. Pfos are a heart

1160
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:23,159
defect that really don't show up until your heart is

1161
01:13:23,199 --> 01:13:28,920
so stressed that this little opening reveals itself between the

1162
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,000
mesh of your muscle fibers. So those happen as well,

1163
01:13:32,199 --> 01:13:36,640
and there's no way to screen it until you put

1164
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,359
that heart under such extreme pressure. And this is how

1165
01:13:40,359 --> 01:13:43,239
people die, you know, on the side of Mount everst

1166
01:13:43,319 --> 01:13:48,079
or you know, scuba diving, you know, without any indicators,

1167
01:13:48,199 --> 01:13:53,359
super healthy athletes and boom. So there's a lot to it.

1168
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:57,680
So that explains why in my mind, that explains why.

1169
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:59,079
So I didn't have a big issue with.

1170
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:00,359
Speaker 4: It, Plitch.

1171
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 2: What I would love for you to do is walk

1172
01:14:03,039 --> 01:14:03,920
us through.

1173
01:14:05,119 --> 01:14:09,399
Speaker 1: Jake Barber's story in terms of like where he started,

1174
01:14:09,399 --> 01:14:16,199
militarily where he ended up, especially with going under non

1175
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:21,000
official cover, and then his claims or just more over,

1176
01:14:21,079 --> 01:14:22,760
like do you support his claims?

1177
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 2: So if you would just walk us through all of that, well.

1178
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 3: First of all, I've got to I've got to be

1179
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,800
very clear. Well you know, let me do this. And

1180
01:14:33,159 --> 01:14:36,960
I hate it when academics and I are one right

1181
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,640
for at least for a while, answer a question with

1182
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:47,720
a question. But I'm going to ask you a question. Okay, please, okay,

1183
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,760
where were you born? And when were you born? And

1184
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,720
now let me let me interrupt that question so that

1185
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:59,239
you don't have to give personally identifiable information on TV.

1186
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,680
I draw up a big distinction between what I believe

1187
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,359
and what I know. I used to think that I

1188
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:13,079
knew that I was born on March eighteen, nineteen fifty nine,

1189
01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:16,319
and out of hope falls. I don't why because I

1190
01:15:16,399 --> 01:15:19,159
was constantly told that by my parents, and I've seen

1191
01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:22,319
birth certifics blah blah blah. But do I really know that?

1192
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,680
Could that all have been a conspiracy when maybe I

1193
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,680
was born and I don't know Siberia, you know, and

1194
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,239
then so my memory doesn't go back that far. So

1195
01:15:33,319 --> 01:15:39,079
I can't really know that unless I have some corroborating evidence,

1196
01:15:39,239 --> 01:15:44,439
independent sourced later on. So I want to make that

1197
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:48,880
distinction with regard to Jake. I was never assigned with Jake.

1198
01:15:50,199 --> 01:15:54,439
I was you know, we might have been. No, I

1199
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,800
was gone, I was off to CGSC. I was in

1200
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,680
grad school when he got to pot Air Force Base

1201
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,680
and for Bragg or are in that vicinity. So I

1202
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,720
was never co located with him, never signed with him.

1203
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:11,960
And same thing with with Don Paul and Frett. So

1204
01:16:13,079 --> 01:16:16,439
that's not what I was asked to do. I was

1205
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:20,319
asked to show a little bit of leadership and compassion

1206
01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:26,600
and to just just be a good listener, and and

1207
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:28,880
that's what I did. So I'm not I'm not Jake

1208
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:32,640
Barber's lawyer. I'm not his you know, I'm not the

1209
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,359
guy to verify everything on his military records or not.

1210
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,319
What I can't tell you is it is consistent with

1211
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:46,960
my awareness of how intelligence agencies across Let's let's be clear,

1212
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,279
there's a lot of them. Now, it's not just the CIA.

1213
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:51,720
There's a lot of intelligence agencies, so I don't know,

1214
01:16:52,119 --> 01:16:55,239
and he hasn't said which one that recruited him or whatever.

1215
01:16:55,840 --> 01:17:00,199
But the way that he talks about his whole military

1216
01:17:00,239 --> 01:17:03,960
process is consistent with the way I would run it.

1217
01:17:04,039 --> 01:17:07,359
If I was recruiting folks, I would want to sheep

1218
01:17:07,399 --> 01:17:10,680
dip them, get them the training they need right using

1219
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,600
somebody else's dollars, by the way, the DoD's dollars, right,

1220
01:17:14,359 --> 01:17:16,640
and then and to make sure they got that training,

1221
01:17:17,119 --> 01:17:22,000
and then pluck them into arguably a higher role to

1222
01:17:22,079 --> 01:17:24,720
do what needs to be done under deep cover. So

1223
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,960
I have I have no issues with the inconsistencies at all.

1224
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I want to I want to read a

1225
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:35,239
few things of of what some folks said. This is

1226
01:17:35,279 --> 01:17:38,600
a Tim McMillan, who is who is at the debrief

1227
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,920
and kind of kind of surprised by what he wrote.

1228
01:17:42,319 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 2: Quote.

1229
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 1: Is it confirmed that Jacob Barber was in fact a

1230
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:50,600
combat controller? The documents shared by News Nations show he enlisted.

1231
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:56,119
He enlisted with a CCT pipeline option, but the DD

1232
01:17:56,399 --> 01:17:59,600
two fourteen shows him being in aerospace maintenance for the

1233
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,479
entire of his enlistment.

1234
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:04,239
Speaker 2: And let's see.

1235
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: McMillan goes on to say not saying he wasn't a CCT,

1236
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:11,640
but it wasn't confirmed by what was shown. Also, the

1237
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:16,960
NATO confidential clearances is from travel documents to Bosnia.

1238
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 2: That means nothing.

1239
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: Everyone would have it traveling on a NATO on a NATO,

1240
01:18:22,359 --> 01:18:27,640
I guess mission and this gentleman. Travis Fields replies to

1241
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:32,560
his tweet to McMillan's tweet, quote, don't see proof he

1242
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:36,279
was a combat controller here either. Also, back in my day,

1243
01:18:36,399 --> 01:18:39,319
you became a n ee for senior airman on day

1244
01:18:39,359 --> 01:18:43,520
one of year four and he served six So I

1245
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,119
wonder if he should have made staff sergeant.

1246
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 2: I know a combat controller.

1247
01:18:50,039 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 1: Who I'll ask about this if no one else figures

1248
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,880
it out. And Tim McMillan replies, quote, I thought this

1249
01:18:57,079 --> 01:19:01,359
was odd as well. All Army SOF souls are automatically

1250
01:19:01,399 --> 01:19:05,279
promoted to E five upon completion of Q course. However,

1251
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,880
not familiar if it's the same for the Air Force.

1252
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,520
Uh your reaction to that well.

1253
01:19:13,399 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 3: So the last comment I don't think was targeted towards Jakes,

1254
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,840
probably towards Don Paul. Don Paul served in the Air

1255
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:24,760
Force and the Army and I think because he was

1256
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,199
referred to as special forces. You know, that's an army

1257
01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:32,399
term that the Air Force doesn't use the term special forces.

1258
01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:37,279
They say commandos, special tactics. Squadrons are typically assigned to those,

1259
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,119
so that's more of an army term. So I suspect

1260
01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:43,359
I don't know Tim. I respect him, you know, as

1261
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,119
a fellow human, and it sounds like probably a pretty

1262
01:19:46,119 --> 01:19:49,079
talented guy, but there may be just a little bit

1263
01:19:49,119 --> 01:19:52,159
of naive to take there. So Don Paul never claimed

1264
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:56,600
to be agreeable, right, and so you know, again I

1265
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,680
sympathize with you and Ross and the media with you know,

1266
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:02,319
just trying to deal with these acronyms and these subtle

1267
01:20:02,359 --> 01:20:06,439
little nuances on verbiage. But I think that's what that

1268
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:11,239
last comment was towards. And so, what what Jake and

1269
01:20:11,319 --> 01:20:18,680
Don Paul both have in common is detailed extensive training

1270
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:24,079
with a m M a uh. And so how many

1271
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:31,359
air mechanics are MMA champions Behind the scenes, if you're

1272
01:20:31,399 --> 01:20:33,479
going to be if you're going to be on the

1273
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:37,159
president's helicopter or you're going to be on a four

1274
01:20:37,239 --> 01:20:43,840
star general's helicopter, you know they might want a guy that, yeah,

1275
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,960
he can fix the airplane, but he also can take out, uh,

1276
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,279
you know, a threat as well. So you'll train them

1277
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:54,840
in marksmanship, you'll train them in all these other aspects

1278
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:59,279
of things, and so that's the sheep dipping. So I

1279
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:02,439
guess my answer to all that is cheap did wouldn't

1280
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:04,239
you do the same thing, you know, if you were

1281
01:21:04,239 --> 01:21:08,800
in charge of security for for high rank in folks. Yeah,

1282
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,520
it just makes sense to me. Yeah.

1283
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,119
Speaker 1: Another person asked again just kind of building on what

1284
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,000
I think Tim McMillan was inquiring about.

1285
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:20,520
Speaker 2: Quote the claim was made that he was a CCT

1286
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:22,960
and PJ. When did that occur?

1287
01:21:23,079 --> 01:21:26,039
Speaker 1: His d D two fourteen displayed in the one hour

1288
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:30,800
segment does not support the claim. Is there supporting facts

1289
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:33,000
or documents to support the claim?

1290
01:21:34,039 --> 01:21:37,319
Speaker 3: Again? You know, without going through the nitty gritty of

1291
01:21:37,319 --> 01:21:41,399
each and every aspect, I think you know, we were

1292
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,239
all thrown in the same pot to a certain extent.

1293
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,119
You know, Fred unquestionably is a PJ. I've seen his

1294
01:21:48,319 --> 01:21:53,039
DD two fourteen. He's got three bronze stars. And so

1295
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,399
you know, when when you're when you have all of

1296
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:01,159
us around that fire pit and picking out know nitnoid

1297
01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:06,279
aspects of things, you know, I just I just think

1298
01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:09,560
that's a little bit ridiculous. Uh, to go to that

1299
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,359
level of scrutiny. Again, that doesn't seem to me to

1300
01:22:12,399 --> 01:22:17,720
be scientific scrutiny if you don't understand the rationale. Okay,

1301
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:21,279
let's talk about it, and let's and let's take a

1302
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:25,560
list of unresolved issues that we can deal with scientifically

1303
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,880
and get a big brilliant scientist like Gary Nolan involved

1304
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:37,439
in this, right, or or very experienced intelligence operatives and

1305
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:42,399
managers like Lue Alsondo, Carlnell, you know, Jay Stratton and

1306
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:46,079
Dave Grutsch, get those guys dressing those But this this

1307
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:50,119
is who shot John sort of belooney in mind. I

1308
01:22:50,119 --> 01:22:53,680
don't mean to demean anybody. We need to be skeptical,

1309
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,439
it needs to go through that level. But I don't

1310
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:58,840
have any issue that that was explained by the pre

1311
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:05,279
scuba pre pipeline training. Right. He clearly was recruited, he

1312
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,039
clearly went through a training, He showed that certificate of

1313
01:23:09,079 --> 01:23:12,199
training that going through that that that pre pipeline. He

1314
01:23:12,359 --> 01:23:16,479
never claimed to be CCT and so it's it's a

1315
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:17,359
non issue for me.

1316
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,920
Speaker 1: And really, really the takeaway from what I'm hearing you

1317
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:29,079
say is the career path that Jake Barber stated is

1318
01:23:29,399 --> 01:23:34,960
as fact, completely comports with other members or other other

1319
01:23:35,359 --> 01:23:39,560
people that you've you've worked with or encountered during your

1320
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,680
time in the Middle military. They they followed almost the

1321
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,439
exact same kind of path to move into a nonofficial cover.

1322
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:51,359
Speaker 3: I won't say that, I'm not I'm not going to

1323
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,319
claim that. What I'm going to say again, is it

1324
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,880
that there's no it's consistent.

1325
01:23:58,159 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 2: That is consistent, consistent with.

1326
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 3: The way that an intelligence community would want to bring

1327
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:10,239
somebody into a knock position. You want it, maintain mundane,

1328
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:16,279
you want it. There's nothing special here, you know, uh,

1329
01:24:16,359 --> 01:24:20,279
until until they assume their other effort, right. I mean,

1330
01:24:20,399 --> 01:24:24,520
you would love the plumber to be a martial artist, right,

1331
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,880
because that's that's the way it's going to be sure.

1332
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:32,000
And so this path for both Jake and Don Paul,

1333
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,000
along with some law enforcement credentials which are also makes

1334
01:24:37,199 --> 01:24:39,560
all the sense in the world. Right. So it's all

1335
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:43,279
part of this sheep dipping process to get the right

1336
01:24:43,319 --> 01:24:48,079
skill set for when when they leave the military and

1337
01:24:48,119 --> 01:24:50,800
go into this very challenging field.

1338
01:24:51,159 --> 01:24:53,640
Speaker 1: Folks, If you enjoyed part one of our interview with

1339
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:56,720
doctor John blitch and want to know more about whistleblower

1340
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,640
Jake Barber and UFOs otherwise known as UAPs. You will

1341
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:05,399
enjoy this episode with national security expert Matthew Pines and

1342
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:08,680
don't forget to hit the subscribe and thumbs up buttons