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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, how you doing. Welcome to Destiny. This is Cliff,

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<v Speaker 2>your host of the podcast, and I hope you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>well today. Sad news. Eric van Dankin has passed away

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<v Speaker 2>at ninety. I didn't realize that he was ninety. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought it was in his late eighties. But if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know who he is, he wrote a number of

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<v Speaker 2>books on aliens influencing ancient Earth, and the most notable

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<v Speaker 2>book was Charants of the God, which was written in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen published in nineteen sixty eight, and I got to

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<v Speaker 2>say it was a big influence on me. Not so

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<v Speaker 2>much for the alien part of it, but he actually,

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<v Speaker 2>out of his own pocket and resources, would fly to

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<v Speaker 2>different parts of the world and look at ruins, and

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<v Speaker 2>because the archaeological community was in his infancy back then

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<v Speaker 2>in the early nineteen sixties and beyond, he would actually

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<v Speaker 2>go to Peru, to various Mayan sights and Aztec sites

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<v Speaker 2>in Mexico and Central America and actually go and travel

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<v Speaker 2>through the jungle. He would take an interpreter with him

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<v Speaker 2>and a small team and he was taking and you

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<v Speaker 2>can see these in some of his early books. He

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<v Speaker 2>was taking photographs of temples and pyramids back when it

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<v Speaker 2>was not even really vogue to do that, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just fascinated as a kid to see

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<v Speaker 2>these photographs and all these images that he was impressed with.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it was late that he interpreted this data as

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<v Speaker 2>alien cities and pyramids, and later would kind of go

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<v Speaker 2>off the deep end and even consider the Great Giza Pyramids, Cufu, Caffrey,

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<v Speaker 2>and so on as works of alien technology. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is where I kind of separate myself from his work.

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<v Speaker 2>His early research, his early explorations are fascinating and really

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<v Speaker 2>impressed me because he is kind of going against the

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<v Speaker 2>grain and asking the reader to look inward a little

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<v Speaker 2>deeper rather than taking the explanations by the archaeological community

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<v Speaker 2>as the final word. And I think that was more

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<v Speaker 2>of an impression on me than the alien builders the

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<v Speaker 2>alien technology, which is ancient aliens all over the place,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know how I feel about it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just gone too far. That's not simply explained, is

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<v Speaker 2>automatically relegated to the technology of the ancients, the ancient aliens.

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<v Speaker 2>So but it's a loss. He led a very full

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<v Speaker 2>and active life right up to the end. And after

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<v Speaker 2>years of interviews with him, I'm going to pull together

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<v Speaker 2>a best of Eric van Downkin before the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the month, and that'll be a special edition where we

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<v Speaker 2>can hear not only his philosophy, but also what got

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<v Speaker 2>him excited, where he got the idea that these are

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<v Speaker 2>aliens rather than advanced humans, because that's that's where I'm

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<v Speaker 2>all about. These are many of these cities are from

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<v Speaker 2>a lost civilization that developed their own technology and not

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<v Speaker 2>only built the pyramids, but built many of the temples

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<v Speaker 2>and other buildings that are considered anomalists and almost because

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<v Speaker 2>we can't build them today, we don't know the technology

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<v Speaker 2>that was used in building them. And as you will

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<v Speaker 2>hear from this interview with him, it's not easy to

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<v Speaker 2>understand exactly what was in place when these places, when

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<v Speaker 2>these temples, pyramids and buildings were built. So look for

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<v Speaker 2>that the best of Eric von Donkin before the end

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<v Speaker 2>of January twenty twenty six. And I think over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I have seven. I mean it was rated.

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<v Speaker 2>He was putting out books about five to seven years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>almost one a year. And what they these books were

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<v Speaker 2>were not simply writing they were mostly translations of lectures

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<v Speaker 2>and they're not really that great. But you don't throw

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<v Speaker 2>it all out because there's a lot of really good research.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of good travel material that he andes

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<v Speaker 2>in this material in these books that he put out,

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<v Speaker 2>So look forward to that. Today's program is on autism

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<v Speaker 2>and a term that I just discovered called neuro divergence.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is people who process data, who think differently

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<v Speaker 2>and express themselves in a different fashion. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>various autistic types, the spectrum you might call them. And

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<v Speaker 2>my guest, Soul Smith, has been working as a counselor

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<v Speaker 2>to people with autism, and as we'll hear today, this

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<v Speaker 2>is not just autism, it's also ADHD, dyslexia, tourettes. It's

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<v Speaker 2>basically people who are working with this. And what we'll

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<v Speaker 2>hear from Soul today is an understanding that this is

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<v Speaker 2>not a simple These people are processing data differently, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking millions and millions of people how they are

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<v Speaker 2>leading successful and active lives. So today's program is the

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<v Speaker 2>Autistics Guide to Self Discovery and my guest is Saul Smith. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>the seventh annual Grand Egyptian Tour is coming up. We

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<v Speaker 2>have Mohammad and Nohah by him with us. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be visiting Tennis, Egypt, which is very very old.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't know what happened there. It looks like a

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<v Speaker 2>catastrophic event happened. It has megalithic structures, statues, and some

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<v Speaker 2>large pieces strewed around. Mohammad, What do we know about Tannis?

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<v Speaker 2>What makes it so unique?

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<v Speaker 1>What we know about Tennis? Unfortunately so little, but it

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<v Speaker 1>is so little inconvenient with the importance and the greatness

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<v Speaker 1>of Tennis. But for us it is very high level

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<v Speaker 1>of information. Number One, what we know that Tennis was

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<v Speaker 1>a great center of knowledge in ancient Egypt.

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<v Speaker 3>It was the big.

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<v Speaker 1>City receiving all the travelers and immigrants and visitors to

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<v Speaker 1>Egypt from the northeast part of they come across Sinai.

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<v Speaker 1>The second thing about Tennis that there was a massive

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<v Speaker 1>size timble or I can call it big town. We

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<v Speaker 1>call it temble dedicated to Amonra. This temble or this

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<v Speaker 1>village if I can call it this way was completely

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<v Speaker 1>built out of rose granite. Fromus one, you know what

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<v Speaker 1>people don't know that there was more than twelve obelisks

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<v Speaker 1>in Tennis, maybe more but the remains some of them

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<v Speaker 1>still in good condition, but all of them are laying

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<v Speaker 1>on the ground. The one they took it to the

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<v Speaker 1>Grand Museum, the one in front of the main gate

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<v Speaker 1>of the Grand Museum is from Tennis, and the one

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<v Speaker 1>in Tarry Square now is from Tennis. So there are

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<v Speaker 1>about ten obelisks or eight obelisks still there at Tennis.

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<v Speaker 1>So the story is very strange because we expected, even

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<v Speaker 1>if the temple was in bad condition, we expected more

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<v Speaker 1>ruins to see more cat ORed blocks, but we found

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<v Speaker 1>only few. But we found the biggest. By the way,

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<v Speaker 1>there are remains of blocks weighing more than two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>ton and three hundred ton we found the foot of

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<v Speaker 1>a statue. According to the dimension of the foot, the

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<v Speaker 1>statue would be more than fifteen hundred ton. The foot

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<v Speaker 1>is like a car size. Wow. Okay, so we don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what happened exactly. It must be something very strong

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<v Speaker 1>hit Tennis and hit that temble and it causes it

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<v Speaker 1>caused great damage, like great exublusion happened inside the temple

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<v Speaker 1>and caused that all the pieces are scattered on a

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<v Speaker 1>distance maybe like three or four kilometers wide.

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<v Speaker 2>Amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So when people go to tennis. They're going to feel

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<v Speaker 1>the magic and they feel the dips of the history

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<v Speaker 1>of tennis.

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<v Speaker 2>Come on and join us. It's gonna be April twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eight through May tenth. For all the details and the itinerary,

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<v Speaker 2>go to earthacients dot com Forward slash Tours got a

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<v Speaker 2>new word for you. It's called neuro divergent adult. If

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<v Speaker 2>you haven't heard what that is before, we're gonna learn

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<v Speaker 2>all about it today. I, as a kid was considered dyslexic.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a reading problem, and my folks, this is god,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't so long ago. They didn't know what to

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<v Speaker 2>do with me, so they did the best they could.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was an excellent artist. I just didn't process

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<v Speaker 2>mathematics and anything else very well. And I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of us out there. And the book I'm

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<v Speaker 2>highlighting today addresses this in a very very good way.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery. And my

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<v Speaker 2>guest today is Saul Smith. He is a liberal arts professor,

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<v Speaker 2>life coach, writer, speaker, social media personality, and I gotta

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<v Speaker 2>tell you he has done a remarkable job in this

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<v Speaker 2>new book in describing how neurodivergent people see the world

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<v Speaker 2>and how to get around and be the best you can. So, hey, Soul,

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<v Speaker 2>welcome to Destiny. Great to see you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you very much for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>And the first thing I want to ask you is

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<v Speaker 2>why did you write this book? I mean, you're a coach,

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<v Speaker 2>but was it the work we're working with others that

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<v Speaker 2>you thought I got to write the book because I

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<v Speaker 2>see this every single day. Blah blah blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 2>What is What was the motivation?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I would say that, you know, it's from working

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<v Speaker 3>with folks and kind of thinking that there should be

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<v Speaker 3>some sort of a starting point for people. There's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there are a lot of autism books out there that

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<v Speaker 3>are finally being written by autistic people in the last

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<v Speaker 3>few years, which is great, but a lot of them.

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<v Speaker 3>I just I felt like we had to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>get something there to just sort of serve as like

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of a roadmap for people to better

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<v Speaker 3>understand themselves through this lens, and just there wasn't really

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<v Speaker 3>anything out there in place for it. So the book

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<v Speaker 3>seemed like a really natural thing for me to branch

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<v Speaker 3>off into.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you describe your own journey as an autistic person.

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<v Speaker 2>You were diagnosed as an adult. Talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about that, because I think a lot of people and

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, you suggest people go online and there's

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<v Speaker 2>a ton of various tests and processes that you can

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<v Speaker 2>take to discover if you're on the spectrum. And we'll

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the spectrum in a minute, but talk about

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<v Speaker 2>your own discovery because it's pretty remarkable.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure, sure, I mean I always knew that I was

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<v Speaker 3>a little different. I think that it was sort of

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<v Speaker 3>packaged to me by my parents as like a good

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<v Speaker 3>thing that I was different. I clearly sort of processed

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<v Speaker 3>things differently and was a little bit out of sync

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<v Speaker 3>with my peers, and there was always you know, i'd

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<v Speaker 3>get into a quandary and be upset about having trouble

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<v Speaker 3>making friendships and stuff. Parents would be, oh, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>as you get older, people will, well, they'll catch up.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just kind of had this idea that that like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, maybe I was just extra mature or something,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, I got along with my teachers better

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<v Speaker 3>than my peers and that kind of thing, and so

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<v Speaker 3>as a did get older, you know, it just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of kept being like each next level wasn't wasn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I was expecting something different out of college

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<v Speaker 3>than I was expecting something different out of working and

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<v Speaker 3>it was it was frustrating to see, you know, in

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<v Speaker 3>the workplace, how you can do your job really well

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<v Speaker 3>but still feel like your your head's always on the

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<v Speaker 3>chopping block, you know. They it was not really doing

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<v Speaker 3>your job so much as fitting in and everything. And

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<v Speaker 3>I just never really fit in very well. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I just kind of always knew this. And and my

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<v Speaker 3>my whole family was pretty pretty, you know different. My

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<v Speaker 3>dad was was was brilliant and just super kind of empathetic.

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<v Speaker 3>And when he died in twenty seventeen, my brother and

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<v Speaker 3>my uncle and a couple other people and I were

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<v Speaker 3>standing around just sort of swapping stories about him, and

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<v Speaker 3>of course most of these were stories I had heard

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<v Speaker 3>but never really come of all in one place. And

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<v Speaker 3>my brother said, Wow, it's like he was autistic or something.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was like, oh, my gosh, and it kind

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<v Speaker 3>of hit me, you know that, like that makes sense

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<v Speaker 3>because I've been studying psychology. I had been reading about

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<v Speaker 3>autism a lot, and I was like, oh no, oh no,

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<v Speaker 3>And then really like did a deep dive into it,

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<v Speaker 3>and I just kept seeing myself there, and it was

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<v Speaker 3>just really it's that I never saw my experience reflected

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<v Speaker 3>in the DSM. You know, I never saw my experience

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<v Speaker 3>like things like take things literally, and I thought they

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<v Speaker 3>meant like, you can't deal with metaphors or something, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm a literature professor, and of course I

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<v Speaker 3>can deal with metaphors. But what I didn't understand is

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<v Speaker 3>that they meant that, like, you know, communicating literally means

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<v Speaker 3>we see discussion and as a transfer of information from

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<v Speaker 3>one person to another, we use words for their intended meaning,

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<v Speaker 3>and that this sort of normal cultural way is to

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<v Speaker 3>have a sort of meaning woven between your words that

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<v Speaker 3>the other person is supposed to extract. There's this sort

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<v Speaker 3>of code of politeness, like you know. A good example

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<v Speaker 3>of where this can get you off track is if

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<v Speaker 3>a boss is giving you sort of marching orders and

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<v Speaker 3>you don't track that that's what's happening because they don't

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<v Speaker 3>want to order you. They're being polite because you're being friendly,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, so they'll say, well, that's not how

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<v Speaker 3>I would do it, and I would go like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that's not how I would do it either, And my

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<v Speaker 3>boss is like, okay, well can you go tell her

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<v Speaker 3>to or no. She wouldn't say that. The normal thing

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<v Speaker 3>for me would be if we were talking, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>talking about another teacher, and she goes, okay, well why

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<v Speaker 3>don't you go tell her to do it a different way?

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<v Speaker 3>But my boss wouldn't say that. She would just say

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<v Speaker 3>I don't like how she's doing that, and I would say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that's not how I would do it either. And a

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<v Speaker 3>couple of weeks pass by and the boss is like, what,

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<v Speaker 3>why is she still teaching it the course that way?

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<v Speaker 3>And I go, oh, I just thought we both agreed

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<v Speaker 3>this isn't how we would do it, you know. But

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<v Speaker 3>it was really that was a sort of implicit command

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<v Speaker 3>to go and ask somebody to change the way they

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<v Speaker 3>were approaching something. And you know, to me, I not

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<v Speaker 3>being paid to extract implicit commands from people. I just

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<v Speaker 3>you know, wait till somebody tells me what to do,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. So yeah, so that's I just never saw

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<v Speaker 3>myself in it. And I finally like went in for

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<v Speaker 3>the assessment, which I do stress to people that as

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<v Speaker 3>an adult, nobody has to go through the assessment. Nobody

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<v Speaker 3>has to be diagnosed. You can self identify by really

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<v Speaker 3>studying and really understanding yourself just as well. And even

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<v Speaker 3>studies have shown this, especially if it's a problem of access,

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<v Speaker 3>like how expensive it can be in that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, when it finally came, there was a bit

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<v Speaker 3>of a you know, identity crisis of like, wow, all

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<v Speaker 3>these things I you know, kind of thought of myself

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<v Speaker 3>as special. There's you know, a label here now And

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<v Speaker 3>it took me a while to really come to grips

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<v Speaker 3>with all of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think the issue is, especially in the United

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<v Speaker 2>States with Kennedy in office now, is that if you

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<v Speaker 2>are diagnosed with autism, you're are as a disease, right,

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<v Speaker 2>You're you're you're not able to function like a regular

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<v Speaker 2>normal human being, so forth and so on. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is why I like the term neurodivergent, and that definition

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<v Speaker 2>is someone who learns and processes info differently. H And

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<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you, and this is funny that

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<v Speaker 2>I was thinking about this. Is it an evolution? Do

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<v Speaker 2>you think as you look at people and talk to people,

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<v Speaker 2>is it a different kind of homo sapient sapien that

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<v Speaker 2>we are perhaps not looking at correctly And we can say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this is just a person who sees the world differently,

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<v Speaker 2>who processes differently and who is just functioning a little

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<v Speaker 2>different rather than a disease process.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think we definitely it's a little different. And

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not you know, I've heard people say, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>is this an evolutionary step. But my theory, and of

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<v Speaker 3>course I'm not an anthropologist or anything, My theory is

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<v Speaker 3>that it's just always been part of the group. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been a minority part of human existence, but that the

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<v Speaker 3>way that roles and jobs used to be there, it

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00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:34.279
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't stand out quite so much as it does now

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<v Speaker 3>that in our current like economic structure, most jobs, we

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<v Speaker 3>see ourselves as sort of like replaceable parts of a

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<v Speaker 3>machine that are you know, you put somebody in this

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<v Speaker 3>position and they should work the same way as the

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00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.960
<v Speaker 3>last person. They just need the training. And it makes

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00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:54.279
<v Speaker 3>us really sort of stand out because it's not really

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<v Speaker 3>how we work as somebody who's diverged from the norm.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, if you picture a normal standard distribution and

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<v Speaker 3>most people followed and within one, you know, one standard

297
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.720
<v Speaker 3>deviation of of what we would consider average. Just by definition,

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00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 3>autistics are our way out in the margins. So so

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<v Speaker 3>we really stick out in this type of world where

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<v Speaker 3>we're expected to be very similar to each other. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that it's just kind of always existed, and

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you look back and read it's very fun

303
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.000
<v Speaker 3>to read about different historical figures and and try to

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00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.759
<v Speaker 3>spot the autism there. Yeah, but but in some cases

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00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.880
<v Speaker 3>it's really like pretty clear, like like you know, Mozart

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00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:40.559
<v Speaker 3>is pretty clear, and Socrates is pretty clear if Socrates existed,

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00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:46.240
<v Speaker 3>but it's there's yeah, so it's we really I think

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00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.079
<v Speaker 3>it's just always kind of been there but not really

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00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.079
<v Speaker 3>been identified. And as we you know, go into the

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00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:57.359
<v Speaker 3>twentieth century, many autistics were put in institutions and ignored,

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00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:03.160
<v Speaker 3>and so we didn't see the way that people on

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00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.640
<v Speaker 3>on the more needs heavy side of the spectrum relate

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<v Speaker 3>to people on the high masking side of the spectrum.

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<v Speaker 3>And now that we've sort of mainstream things a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit more, we can see these similarities. But yeah, it's

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00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.960
<v Speaker 3>definitely not it's it's definitely genetic. And yes, our environment

317
00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:25.839
<v Speaker 3>does help decide how it manifests, like how much it

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00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.279
<v Speaker 3>shows up, and I think, you know, how well we

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00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:33.559
<v Speaker 3>adapt to that genetic difference. But but you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there's just so many factors and we're finding out more

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00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.720
<v Speaker 3>all the time, and we are not finding it out

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<v Speaker 3>from from the yeah, from our esteemed mister Kennedy at all.

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<v Speaker 2>No, he's he's making a problem. I mean, one in

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<v Speaker 2>three children in the USA are are autistic, one in

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00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:56.000
<v Speaker 2>five adults are. And the studies suggests that it's genetic factors,

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<v Speaker 2>which I find is interesting and and it's you know,

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00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:05.039
<v Speaker 2>it's the mother in vitro, the environment that she was in,

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<v Speaker 2>or the father or something.

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<v Speaker 3>We just don't know right right, Yeah, And you know,

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00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.640
<v Speaker 3>we'll find out more as there's more money put towards it,

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<v Speaker 3>of course, towards the actual research for it. But it's

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00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:24.279
<v Speaker 3>difficult because it's such a minority of the population that

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<v Speaker 3>people don't see it sometimes as an efficient use of money.

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<v Speaker 3>And I mean, you know, we've gone through the whole

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<v Speaker 3>thing of how much of science research doesn't even factor

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00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.039
<v Speaker 3>in women. So there's a lot of catching up to

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<v Speaker 3>do with research.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, once it's identified, do we need to consider

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<v Speaker 2>education as a different form for young people who are autistic?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think that might have been my problem

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<v Speaker 2>as a younger person. I just didn't get and prosys

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<v Speaker 2>the same way as my classmates. And you had This

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<v Speaker 2>is years ago, obviously decades ago. You were just forced

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<v Speaker 2>to do whatever, you know, and I actually was was

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<v Speaker 2>forced to retake a grade class, which was really devastating

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<v Speaker 2>to me, and I'll never forget it. But yeah, you

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<v Speaker 2>would think that the educators would see that it's still

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<v Speaker 2>a functioning person. You just need to tweak the educational

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<v Speaker 2>system a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, and I, you know, have extensive background education.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a you know, doctorate level degree in education.

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<v Speaker 3>And it is one of the things that you sort

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<v Speaker 3>of like realize when you really look into it, is

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<v Speaker 3>that a lot of our education system isn't so much

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<v Speaker 3>about teaching as it is about trying to make learning

356
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<v Speaker 3>transparent and measurable. And learning isn't very transparent into or

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<v Speaker 3>very measurable. A lot of the time. It happens at

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<v Speaker 3>different you know, it's not efficient. It happens at different

359
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.400
<v Speaker 3>times with different people, but even more so, Yeah, with

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<v Speaker 3>neurodivergent folk. And I do think that there would be

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of benefit and letting them approach things differently.

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<v Speaker 3>My own kids, all of whom are on the spectrum.

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<v Speaker 3>We did do, you know, thanks to the pandemic, we

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<v Speaker 3>did do a lot of stuff homeschooled, And what I

365
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 3>found is that my kids really thrived that way because

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<v Speaker 3>they're very autodidactic and they were able to sort of

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<v Speaker 3>we let them approach all of their subjects through things

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<v Speaker 3>they were really interested in. So they were very motivated

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<v Speaker 3>that way. They're very motivated to dig into things and learn,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, they might spend all day on one subject.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they might spend all day looking at something

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<v Speaker 3>with chemistry, or all day looking at something of the math,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, school system you have to make these

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<v Speaker 3>transitions all the time, and transitions are hard for autistics.

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<v Speaker 3>They're hard for adhd yars. You know, it's difficult. And

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<v Speaker 3>it also sort of implies that we should be the

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<v Speaker 3>same good at everything. And for the most part, autistics

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00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:09.680
<v Speaker 3>have this sort of what we call a Spikey profile

379
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<v Speaker 3>where some things they really excel in they'll be way

380
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<v Speaker 3>above grade level, and some things they just will have

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of difficulty grasping or demonstrating, depending on the context.

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<v Speaker 3>So it would be very beneficial, I think, for us

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<v Speaker 3>to approach education differently and more individualistically, and we have

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of lip service to that. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of talk about differentiation and education and how different people

386
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:35.839
<v Speaker 3>learn different ways. But it's really done on a very

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<v Speaker 3>micro scale, like well, we'll do some stuff as group

388
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.720
<v Speaker 3>work and some stuff as lecture, and that doesn't quite

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00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 3>get to it. You know, I feel like the whole

390
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:46.920
<v Speaker 3>structure doesn't. You know, if the structure is made for

391
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.279
<v Speaker 3>this sort of common denominator, it's made for the average.

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<v Speaker 3>It doesn't serve autistics. And we see autistics very often

393
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:00.359
<v Speaker 3>be pushed either into you know, remedial education or pushed

394
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<v Speaker 3>into gifted education. And either one of those is a

395
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.119
<v Speaker 3>sort of marginalization. Yeah, you know, either either one of

396
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.359
<v Speaker 3>those is a sort of way to kind of get

397
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:09.839
<v Speaker 3>it out of the way of the rest of the

398
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.519
<v Speaker 3>class and makes makes there be a difference, and it's uh, yeah,

399
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.319
<v Speaker 3>so it can be hard on either side of that.

400
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.359
<v Speaker 3>And and yeah, a lot of autistics might be held

401
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 3>back in a class, not because they're not smart enough,

402
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.200
<v Speaker 3>but because they're either you know, one subject in particular,

403
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.160
<v Speaker 3>they're having trouble grasping, or maybe even just socially they're

404
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:32.960
<v Speaker 3>not thriving. And teachers will say, yeah, they could use

405
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 3>another year here because they're really not right. But if

406
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.640
<v Speaker 3>you when you think about it's kind of weird to really,

407
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, as an adult, we never hang out with

408
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:43.640
<v Speaker 3>just people born or year, you know, like like of

409
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.400
<v Speaker 3>a certain vintage like we you know, like we're able

410
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 3>to spread out and talk to lots of different age groups,

411
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.640
<v Speaker 3>and I feel like that would really benefit us socially

412
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:53.119
<v Speaker 3>as well.

413
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, can you describe generally what are the characteristics of autism?

414
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.359
<v Speaker 2>Give us a sense of what that means.

415
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So it's a processing difference, and mainly the way

416
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 3>that I look at it is bottom up processing versus

417
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:15.519
<v Speaker 3>top down. It's much more cognitively draining to be a

418
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:19.839
<v Speaker 3>bottom up processor. So what that means is that we

419
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.880
<v Speaker 3>tend to sort of construct our idea of reality through

420
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:27.920
<v Speaker 3>the details that lots of details will put together into

421
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:31.960
<v Speaker 3>an overall picture. And the sort of typical way to

422
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.759
<v Speaker 3>do this, and of course be thinking of this and

423
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.839
<v Speaker 3>lots of different variations, The typical way to do this

424
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.519
<v Speaker 3>is to see things as a sort of umbrella concept

425
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.440
<v Speaker 3>and through that to sort of like be able to

426
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.920
<v Speaker 3>assume some details. And this makes it where it's a

427
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:53.279
<v Speaker 3>lot easier to understand certain settings in certain situations because

428
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:57.359
<v Speaker 3>you're looking at things as it's sort of interrelated, and

429
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.039
<v Speaker 3>you're using past experience to advise your current experience, and

430
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.640
<v Speaker 3>autistics tend to see things much more individually than that.

431
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 3>So a good example that I always try to pull

432
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.640
<v Speaker 3>out because already this feels very nebulous, but a good

433
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:13.039
<v Speaker 3>example is sort of pull out. Is I used to

434
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.519
<v Speaker 3>teach this course on media literacy, and we would talk

435
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.960
<v Speaker 3>about advertising, and I would want students to sort of

436
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.799
<v Speaker 3>analyze these print ads. And I found that they weren't

437
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.920
<v Speaker 3>instinctively very good at this, you know, because advertising is

438
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.119
<v Speaker 3>meant to be more not noticed than anything else, meant

439
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:32.400
<v Speaker 3>to sort of get a message to you pre cognitively.

440
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.200
<v Speaker 3>So I wanted them to sort of strip down how

441
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:36.960
<v Speaker 3>this is happening. And I'd say, okay, we're going to

442
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.359
<v Speaker 3>for every ad, we're going to look at three levels.

443
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:43.359
<v Speaker 3>Level one is what do you literally see in the advertisement?

444
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, what is there? And then level two is

445
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.920
<v Speaker 3>what's the intended meaning? You know, the advertiser wants you

446
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.759
<v Speaker 3>to come, have some sort of meaning to walk away with.

447
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Most people can understand this because it's made to be understood,

448
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:57.559
<v Speaker 3>and I go, but level three is what kind of stereotypes,

449
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 3>what kind of social norms are we you using to

450
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.880
<v Speaker 3>make that intended meaning come across. And I thought this

451
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 3>was a brilliant way to do it. So we look

452
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.519
<v Speaker 3>at the first ad. I would show this add up

453
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.759
<v Speaker 3>on the board, up on the screen and I'd say, okay,

454
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 3>so level one, what do we see here? And a

455
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.279
<v Speaker 3>lot of students would go, coke is delicious and refreshing,

456
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.759
<v Speaker 3>and I go, no, no, I go that's the message, right.

457
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:20.319
<v Speaker 3>I go, okay, so what do we see? And they

458
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 3>go happy people like coke? And I go no, and

459
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.400
<v Speaker 3>they go, coke makes you happy? And I'm like, no,

460
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 3>what do you see here? And I finally would have

461
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 3>to say, we see a woman in a swimsuit, smiling

462
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:35.240
<v Speaker 3>holding a can of coke, and they'd go oh yeah, yeah.

463
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 3>And it's just kind of like the top down processing

464
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 3>jumps to what does this mean? They don't they? Looking

465
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:46.640
<v Speaker 3>at all those details is cognitively draining. And that's really

466
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.640
<v Speaker 3>the thing is that most of our brains aren't really

467
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:55.240
<v Speaker 3>concerned with bringing in stimuli. It's concerned with filtering out

468
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.200
<v Speaker 3>unnecessary stimuli. So our brains want to focus us like

469
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:01.799
<v Speaker 3>a laser, on what, you know, evolutionarily speaking, what can

470
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.440
<v Speaker 3>keep us alive what's going to keep us functional, So

471
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:06.599
<v Speaker 3>it's filtering out a lot of stuff that it decides

472
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.000
<v Speaker 3>isn't important. And this's why you know, you're walking in

473
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:12.759
<v Speaker 3>the woods and the bushes rustle that's going to grab

474
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.519
<v Speaker 3>your attention, but all of those leaves along the way

475
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.640
<v Speaker 3>aren't going to grab your attention if they're just blowing

476
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:23.480
<v Speaker 3>in the wind. And an autistic person our filter is off.

477
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 3>Our filter has not really tuned into that same like

478
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:35.000
<v Speaker 3>razors point of awareness, and instead lots of things are

479
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:36.680
<v Speaker 3>coming in that you don't want to. And that's why

480
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.319
<v Speaker 3>you know, autistics can have like the tag on their

481
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 3>shirt bothers them, or the feeling of this fabric bothers them,

482
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.880
<v Speaker 3>because you're getting this sensory input that your brain would

483
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:52.200
<v Speaker 3>normally filter out for most people. So instead we have

484
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.000
<v Speaker 3>taking in an excess of information and trying to siphon

485
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:57.960
<v Speaker 3>it down as much as we can. And I mean,

486
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.599
<v Speaker 3>you know, you can think of this filter as like

487
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:02.279
<v Speaker 3>a way to sort of tune in, like on a

488
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.039
<v Speaker 3>on a radio dial. And a lot of autistics are

489
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.480
<v Speaker 3>getting so much static that they're going to have a

490
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.920
<v Speaker 3>difficult time really discerning the importance of language, the importance

491
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 3>of words, because other things will feel that same level

492
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:20.799
<v Speaker 3>of volume, that same level of importance. And it I

493
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.880
<v Speaker 3>mean like I've heard, for example, that in many studies

494
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.799
<v Speaker 3>autistics have shown to have different ear structures than neurotypicals

495
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.400
<v Speaker 3>because over time they have not tuned into the same

496
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 3>way of hearing that neurotypicals do. So, like a lot

497
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.359
<v Speaker 3>of us have audio processing disorder. You go into a

498
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 3>restaurant that's noisy, and it's not that you can't hear

499
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 3>the person next to you, it's that their voice is

500
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.759
<v Speaker 3>swimming in all the other sounds. And the normal way

501
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 3>to do it is, as you know, neurotypicals have like

502
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.079
<v Speaker 3>a mixing board in there somewhere where a guy is

503
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 3>like tuning you in too exactly what somebody's saying. And

504
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:57.799
<v Speaker 3>that seems like a dream. I thought of that the

505
00:30:57.880 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 3>other day. I was thinking, like I was watching a

506
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 3>movie and noticing how in this restaurant scene you could

507
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.160
<v Speaker 3>hear the voices so well, and I was like, man,

508
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:05.559
<v Speaker 3>that must be fantastic.

509
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:10.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, we're going to take a short commercial break

510
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.799
<v Speaker 2>to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will

511
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 2>return shortly with my guest today, Saul Smith, discussing his

512
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:23.279
<v Speaker 2>new release. His newest book, The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery,

513
00:31:24.920 --> 00:32:20.559
<v Speaker 2>will be right back. My guest today is Saul Smith.

514
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.559
<v Speaker 2>He is a professor of liberal Arts. He's also a

515
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:26.799
<v Speaker 2>writer and a counselor, and he's written a new book

516
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.440
<v Speaker 2>called The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery. This is a

517
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:34.559
<v Speaker 2>look at neuro divergent types of people, people who think

518
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:42.039
<v Speaker 2>differently and perceive differently. I got to tell you one

519
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:44.079
<v Speaker 2>of the most irritating things that I had to deal

520
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:47.119
<v Speaker 2>with is these fake robo calls. Each day. Even when

521
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I try to block them, I seem to get them,

522
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.359
<v Speaker 2>and it's really really irritating. It's a real problem. I

523
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Sometimes the phone system catches it, but most

524
00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:59.720
<v Speaker 2>often it doesn't, and I get these random fake calls

525
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>from someplace I don't even know about. If you've wondered

526
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.559
<v Speaker 2>where they get the information from, it's data brokers. They

527
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>often sell your phone number to companies to build these

528
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.400
<v Speaker 2>call lists, and you're getting calls no matter what. There's

529
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:17.960
<v Speaker 2>a solution, though. Incogni has a system that will block

530
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 2>and remove these fake calls, and right now they're offering

531
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:26.480
<v Speaker 2>a special package deal that will eliminate these robocalls. For

532
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 2>all the details, go to incognitate dot com Forward slash

533
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.599
<v Speaker 2>Earth Ancients and get an exclusive sixty percent off the

534
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 2>annual incognitplan. That's Incogni dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients.

535
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:46.279
<v Speaker 2>This is a way to remove robocalls and these irritating,

536
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:53.559
<v Speaker 2>time consuming bother some robocalls. That's I n COO g

537
00:33:54.119 --> 00:34:01.559
<v Speaker 2>NI dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients. Yeah, you bring

538
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.960
<v Speaker 2>up you bring up the entire idea of a spectrum,

539
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.719
<v Speaker 2>which you really don't like. But what is the autistic spectrum?

540
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.559
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's you just give us a hint

541
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:18.400
<v Speaker 2>of it. High functioning, less functioning, and so on. And

542
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:25.800
<v Speaker 2>because of this excess sensitivity, that becomes the issue with

543
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 2>it on the high functioning spectrum. But talk a little

544
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:31.079
<v Speaker 2>bit about the spectrum itself.

545
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

546
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the spectrum is it's a useful term in sort

547
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 3>of understanding that it's going to present in different ways

548
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:41.360
<v Speaker 3>in different people. Yeah. Where I don't like it is

549
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Speaker 3>when it's sort of been sort of assumed in a

550
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 3>popular way of like this spectrum means we're all on

551
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.119
<v Speaker 3>it somewhere. And I can see how people get that

552
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.679
<v Speaker 3>message because we've been trying to sort of push this

553
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.559
<v Speaker 3>message of autistic people are different but just as valuable,

554
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 3>and so it kind of bleeds into this notion of like,

555
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.719
<v Speaker 3>you know, all of us have different traits, and we

556
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.440
<v Speaker 3>do all have different traits, but the spectrum is is

557
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:12.960
<v Speaker 3>basically saying that, like, if somebody says that they're autistic

558
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:17.000
<v Speaker 3>and they don't seem as you know that the same

559
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 3>as your nephew or your cousin or somebody else who

560
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.519
<v Speaker 3>you know who's autistic, it doesn't mean that they're wrong.

561
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:28.920
<v Speaker 3>You know. We tend to see that as trying to

562
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.280
<v Speaker 3>people trying to sort of like weed out people who

563
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:33.480
<v Speaker 3>aren't autistic, Like, wait, wait a minute, you know my

564
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.440
<v Speaker 3>nephew is autistic and he has trouble with with with

565
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:39.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, potty training. You can't be autistic you're doing

566
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 3>complex math. But those are two very different parts of

567
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.599
<v Speaker 3>the spectrum. And that's where it becomes really handy, is

568
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:48.400
<v Speaker 3>just kind of like understanding that this is going to

569
00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:51.000
<v Speaker 3>be lots and lots of different ways. And what we

570
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:53.360
<v Speaker 3>found is that any two autistic people, if you look

571
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 3>at their their brain structures on a fMRI, any two

572
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.719
<v Speaker 3>autistic people will be more different from each other than

573
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.960
<v Speaker 3>they are from a typical brain. So very often we

574
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 3>don't have as much in common with each other even

575
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.320
<v Speaker 3>as we do with somebody who's neurotypical. But where we

576
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.719
<v Speaker 3>do have our commonalities is just in being different. The

577
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:19.960
<v Speaker 3>fact that we are recognizably different from a neurotypical makes

578
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.639
<v Speaker 3>it really makes us sort of a club. It makes

579
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 3>us sort of be able to relate to each other

580
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 3>in very interesting ways just because we're basically coming from

581
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.320
<v Speaker 3>outside of the culture, you know. And yes, so the

582
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.199
<v Speaker 3>spectrum is really broad. You have some people who present

583
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.480
<v Speaker 3>in ways that, especially if they highlight a lot of

584
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.559
<v Speaker 3>their really good skills, you would think that they were

585
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 3>just somebody who's you know, just brilliant and doesn't necessarily

586
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:52.639
<v Speaker 3>have a differently structured brain. But then they again, you know,

587
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.199
<v Speaker 3>this spikey profile. They'll have other things usually that they're

588
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 3>not as good at, that they don't grasp as well.

589
00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.559
<v Speaker 3>And they'll have other people who, yeah, they they're filtering

590
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:05.199
<v Speaker 3>out so such little like inputs or or their focus

591
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.880
<v Speaker 3>is so different that that they struggle with taking care

592
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.239
<v Speaker 3>of themselves. And then you know, parents have to find

593
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:15.679
<v Speaker 3>ways to sort of like ways into that sort of communication,

594
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 3>and there's lots of different ways to sort of to

595
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 3>find that, but it is it is obviously like challenging,

596
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:25.679
<v Speaker 3>and uh, you know a lot of parents of high

597
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.840
<v Speaker 3>needs autistics will will sometimes take issue with autistics like

598
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:34.199
<v Speaker 3>me who and say, you know that's not You're not challenged.

599
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 3>I'm not challenged in taking care of myself. That's true.

600
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.760
<v Speaker 3>But my whole demographic of people who didn't know we

601
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 3>were autistic till later, we are the most underemployed class,

602
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 3>disabled disability class. We're the most over educated disability class,

603
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.519
<v Speaker 3>and we are also the disability class with the highest

604
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:58.039
<v Speaker 3>rate of suicide. So it's obviously very hard to be

605
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:02.719
<v Speaker 3>this way too. It's just presents very differently than that way.

606
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why is the suicide rate so high? Is it

607
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.280
<v Speaker 2>self depreciation or self hate that comes up because you're

608
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.320
<v Speaker 2>different and the society says you need to be this way,

609
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.119
<v Speaker 2>but you're not, so you're screwed or what?

610
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.719
<v Speaker 3>Pretty much? Yeah, Like, you know, when we miss out

611
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:26.760
<v Speaker 3>on social cues like that reading between the lines, we

612
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:30.719
<v Speaker 3>miss places where we may be not fitting in, where

613
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:32.880
<v Speaker 3>people may be making fun of us, for example, But

614
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:35.719
<v Speaker 3>we also miss places where we may be included, where

615
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.199
<v Speaker 3>we may be invited to do things, and we tend

616
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.360
<v Speaker 3>to become very rejection sensitive, where since we do don't

617
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:48.159
<v Speaker 3>fit in with everybody, over time, autistics experience something like

618
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:52.039
<v Speaker 3>eight times more rejection than a neurotypical And then it

619
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:54.360
<v Speaker 3>makes everything kind of feel like rejection. Even if the

620
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.800
<v Speaker 3>rejection isn't there, you can feel it, like, you know,

621
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.480
<v Speaker 3>if you're invited to a part that's not a rejection,

622
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.760
<v Speaker 3>but we can very easily go, well, they just feel

623
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.559
<v Speaker 3>sorry for me because they saw I wasn't invited to

624
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.639
<v Speaker 3>the other eight parties, and you know, so you're instantly

625
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:10.960
<v Speaker 3>you're feeling rejection from that. And then we also just

626
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.800
<v Speaker 3>have trouble in jobs, you know, because again because of

627
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 3>that communication difference, we can be out of sync and

628
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.440
<v Speaker 3>be working really hard in your job, but always get

629
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:24.159
<v Speaker 3>on somebody's bad side and be a little bit off.

630
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.960
<v Speaker 3>We tend to have trouble walking the line of between

631
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the parasocial relationship of coworkers and the very you know,

632
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:40.000
<v Speaker 3>rigid relationship of coworkers and how you're supposed to relate,

633
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:43.239
<v Speaker 3>and so these things kind of make us somewhat of

634
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:48.079
<v Speaker 3>an outcast. I've read statistics that say that eighty percent

635
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:53.679
<v Speaker 3>of autistics with a college degree have chronic trouble with employment.

636
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.199
<v Speaker 3>And that's massive, you know. And that's a lot of people. Yeah,

637
00:39:58.199 --> 00:39:59.880
<v Speaker 3>it's a lot of people with a college degree. And

638
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.119
<v Speaker 3>I mean I did that. I have four degrees, and

639
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.079
<v Speaker 3>I kept thinking, how many degrees is it before I

640
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.000
<v Speaker 3>don't have trouble you know, getting a job and keeping

641
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:11.400
<v Speaker 3>a job. Yeah, but since we're just a little off,

642
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 3>there's this sort of suspicion, this sort of like Uncanny

643
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Valley effect of hmm, there's something about him, and that's

644
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.719
<v Speaker 3>usually enough, you know. And this is why just for example,

645
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 3>like my kids, they're always friends with the exchange students,

646
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 3>they're friends with first generation Americans, they're friends with minority races,

647
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.199
<v Speaker 3>because their differences can be attributed to that. You know,

648
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 3>they can go, you know, if something's a little weird

649
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:41.199
<v Speaker 3>or a little off, or they miss something and they go, oh,

650
00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:44.679
<v Speaker 3>you know, a white girl, you know what, Like it

651
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.599
<v Speaker 3>can be put off to that. And I mean to

652
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.000
<v Speaker 3>the point where even most autistics I know who are

653
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 3>guys will say I got along more with the women,

654
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:55.519
<v Speaker 3>and most women I know will say I got along

655
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:58.400
<v Speaker 3>more with the guys growing up because even then you're

656
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.199
<v Speaker 3>in a little bit different culture, and those differences can

657
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:03.599
<v Speaker 3>be attributed to you know, oh what a boys know

658
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.159
<v Speaker 3>and it's you know, all fun and games on that

659
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.719
<v Speaker 3>level when compared to just kind of being like, wow,

660
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.320
<v Speaker 3>you're you know, a middle aged white guy like me.

661
00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:17.480
<v Speaker 3>But there's something different about your experiences making you act

662
00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:19.280
<v Speaker 3>this way. Maybe there's something wrong with you.

663
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

664
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 2>The book that you've written is a guide for people

665
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:33.159
<v Speaker 2>with autistic functioning, and you're describing how to look at

666
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>life with some support. But I'm really curious you write this.

667
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.599
<v Speaker 2>You write, I'm autistic, I don't have autism.

668
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:44.480
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean?

669
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's very very curious. Yeah, I think you're looking

670
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.800
<v Speaker 2>at the diagnosis there and the negativity and the stigma

671
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:56.920
<v Speaker 2>behind it, right.

672
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely, And I think that a lot of you know,

673
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.320
<v Speaker 3>there's this controversy about identity first versus person first is

674
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:07.559
<v Speaker 3>what they call it. So lots of people like to say,

675
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 3>you know, my son has autism rather than my autistic son.

676
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 3>And the reason that, you know, the reason that there's

677
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:18.960
<v Speaker 3>that difference is is this idea that like some people

678
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.320
<v Speaker 3>feel like it undervalues the person to describe them as autistic.

679
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:26.760
<v Speaker 3>But to me, and to most people I think who

680
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:31.159
<v Speaker 3>are sort of engaged with modern autistic culture, we like

681
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:35.320
<v Speaker 3>to say autistic person because it doesn't suggest that this

682
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.440
<v Speaker 3>is something needing curing. You know, when you say you

683
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.000
<v Speaker 3>know my friend who has cancer. You know, we don't

684
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.800
<v Speaker 3>say my cancerous friend cancer needs to be cured, cancer

685
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.679
<v Speaker 3>needs to be removed. We don't like that. But but

686
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.679
<v Speaker 3>you know, I am a bald man. I'm not a

687
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:54.519
<v Speaker 3>man with baldness because I want to. I want to

688
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.199
<v Speaker 3>suggest that I don't need my baldness cured, that I

689
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:01.239
<v Speaker 3>that's part of my identity. I'm bald. So we really

690
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:04.360
<v Speaker 3>like to sort of we find it more affirming to

691
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.159
<v Speaker 3>say that we are autistic rather than like we have autism,

692
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:10.519
<v Speaker 3>as if it's a disease, as if it's a passenger.

693
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.440
<v Speaker 3>But it does go back and forth, and I generally

694
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:18.119
<v Speaker 3>will refer to somebody however they want to be referred to.

695
00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:20.280
<v Speaker 3>But I do think that it's important to see it

696
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:23.960
<v Speaker 3>as like this isn't something that we want to get

697
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.760
<v Speaker 3>rid of, that we want to cure. It's something we

698
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.000
<v Speaker 3>want to be able to adapt our surroundings to, rather

699
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 3>than having to have us adapt who we are to

700
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:33.320
<v Speaker 3>our surroundings all the time.

701
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you talk about and write about the fear of

702
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.679
<v Speaker 2>coming out as autistic. Why is that important? I mean

703
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you're giving us a sense of it right now. But

704
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean I see just off the top of my

705
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:55.199
<v Speaker 2>head as a you know, declaration that I, if I'm autistic,

706
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:59.679
<v Speaker 2>have this disease. I keep using the word disease because

707
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.880
<v Speaker 2>as right, how is framed right now?

708
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:03.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

709
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Is it changing? Are you seeing it change society society

710
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.119
<v Speaker 2>wise as less of a hindrance and more of just

711
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 2>a functioning human.

712
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think so. I think we're seeing it, seeing

713
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:19.119
<v Speaker 3>it treated differently that way. I think we're we're starting

714
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.760
<v Speaker 3>to recognize that, you know, we have different strengths and

715
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:28.480
<v Speaker 3>different challenges than are typically anticipated, and that we're just

716
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:33.519
<v Speaker 3>you know, very unique, very individual. Which is part of

717
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:36.679
<v Speaker 3>the challenge is that you know, if you have like

718
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:40.559
<v Speaker 3>an autistic classroom, say, my challenge is going to be

719
00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:42.599
<v Speaker 3>different than the next person's challenges. So it may not

720
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.840
<v Speaker 3>fit both of us. Uh, And that's it's hard to

721
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:48.719
<v Speaker 3>tailor things to the individual, like going into a job

722
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:52.280
<v Speaker 3>or something. But we are sort of starting to see

723
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:57.360
<v Speaker 3>that it's being treated more like a different experience. I

724
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:01.079
<v Speaker 3>have a friend who has a son who's autistic, and

725
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.239
<v Speaker 3>she just and he's very young, and she describes him

726
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:07.519
<v Speaker 3>to other kids who're going to meet him. He moves

727
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:11.519
<v Speaker 3>through the world differently, And I like that sort of

728
00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:13.360
<v Speaker 3>take on it, that he moves through the world differently.

729
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.320
<v Speaker 3>He's paying attention to different things, He's experiencing things in

730
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:19.559
<v Speaker 3>a different way. Some things that would like scare the

731
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.119
<v Speaker 3>be Jesus out of other kids, he finds thrilling because

732
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:25.400
<v Speaker 3>he loves sensory input. And then some things that are

733
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:28.039
<v Speaker 3>really benign and kids might like, like you know, a

734
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:32.079
<v Speaker 3>dog might scare him because it's unpredictable and it's it's

735
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.199
<v Speaker 3>feels feels very wild to him. And so yeah, just

736
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:38.559
<v Speaker 3>a sort of different way of being. And I think

737
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:41.400
<v Speaker 3>we're really starting to see that. We're starting to see

738
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:45.280
<v Speaker 3>more books written this way, more things saying like, you know,

739
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.760
<v Speaker 3>you have to find some individual tools to make it

740
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.519
<v Speaker 3>through this world, Like you know, maybe you need a

741
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:52.440
<v Speaker 3>roommate for your life so that you don't have to

742
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.559
<v Speaker 3>work full time. Maybe both of you can work part

743
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:57.639
<v Speaker 3>time and support each other and you can find a

744
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.559
<v Speaker 3>different way of again moving through the world. World. Because

745
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:04.679
<v Speaker 3>we're in this system that assumes a lot of normativity

746
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:06.199
<v Speaker 3>that a lot of us don't come with.

747
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Would you say the book is on coping or adapting.

748
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.480
<v Speaker 3>I think it's yeah. I think it's on adapting because

749
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:19.239
<v Speaker 3>I think, you know, we touch on coping a little bit,

750
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:23.079
<v Speaker 3>which of course is important, but a lot of us,

751
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:26.519
<v Speaker 3>a very profound amount of us. I think it's something

752
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:30.239
<v Speaker 3>like ninety percent of autistics will develop a coping mechanism

753
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:35.400
<v Speaker 3>that you really don't want, such as dependence on alcohol,

754
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:40.280
<v Speaker 3>chemical addiction, eating disorders. I think now that I'm talking about,

755
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:42.159
<v Speaker 3>I think it's eighty eight percent of autistics will have

756
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:46.280
<v Speaker 3>either an addiction, an eating disorder, or you know, gambling addition,

757
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.719
<v Speaker 3>sex addiction, something that they use to sort of like

758
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:53.760
<v Speaker 3>deal with the anxiety and deal with the challenge. And

759
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:56.920
<v Speaker 3>like I myself had an eating disorder, and I thought

760
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:59.679
<v Speaker 3>that it was my only problem in life. I thought, man,

761
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:01.440
<v Speaker 3>if I can just get rid of this eating disorder,

762
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.239
<v Speaker 3>everything would be fine. And it turns out that really

763
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:06.000
<v Speaker 3>wasn't the case. I got rid of the eating disorder

764
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 3>and found myself like anxious and nervous, and I and

765
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.280
<v Speaker 3>it was like I uncovered all of these places where

766
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.199
<v Speaker 3>I like you know, I was piling all my problems

767
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.480
<v Speaker 3>in my head there. So yeah, so coping can be unhealthy,

768
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.800
<v Speaker 3>and of course healthy coping mechanisms like you know, I

769
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:27.800
<v Speaker 3>go for a run every day. That really helps with anxiety.

770
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:33.000
<v Speaker 3>And you know, I'm gonna be anxious my whole life.

771
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Where if I'm no, I'm going to a situation where

772
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm very anxious, like an airport or something else that's

773
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:43.199
<v Speaker 3>that's loud and crowded. I'll wear a compression shirt and

774
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 3>that sort of constricts your blood vessels in a way,

775
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 3>so your heart isn't working as hard, which decreases the

776
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 3>physical aspects of anxiety and basically tricks your body into

777
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.519
<v Speaker 3>thinking this isn't as Yeah, it goes, oh this, this

778
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.400
<v Speaker 3>isn't as anxious inducing as I thought, and it's it's

779
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.119
<v Speaker 3>a wild feeling and a lot of people don't like

780
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:02.800
<v Speaker 3>a compression shirt, but I love it.

781
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Talk about mirroring. This is something that you bring

782
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.920
<v Speaker 2>up in your book, and to my mind, and I

783
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:10.559
<v Speaker 2>didn't read the whole book, but I read enough of

784
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.679
<v Speaker 2>it and to get a sense of it. It's adapting

785
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:19.760
<v Speaker 2>to society's norms, mirroring this. Somebody who you acknowledge as

786
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:23.920
<v Speaker 2>a healthy or a normal person. But I want you

787
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:25.960
<v Speaker 2>to describe it because I think this is a huge

788
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:27.920
<v Speaker 2>problem that people have.

789
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

790
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:34.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we will try to sort of adapt our behaviors

791
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.760
<v Speaker 3>and traits to those that we see around us, and

792
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:41.519
<v Speaker 3>that means being very hyper aware of the way other

793
00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:45.519
<v Speaker 3>people are interacting. And autistics, I always say, will will

794
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:48.519
<v Speaker 3>see a lot that neurotypicals don't, but we'll also miss

795
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:53.480
<v Speaker 3>a lot that neurotypicals don't, So they're you know, social

796
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.480
<v Speaker 3>norms are acting on a sort of like a certain level,

797
00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:01.159
<v Speaker 3>and we try to behave in seek with those social norms.

798
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.239
<v Speaker 3>But it's not instinctive. It's very cognitively trying to make

799
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.440
<v Speaker 3>yourself do this. And you think everybody else is working

800
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:10.360
<v Speaker 3>the same way, but for the most part they have

801
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:14.400
<v Speaker 3>synced in with their mirror neurons to the same ways

802
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.840
<v Speaker 3>that everybody else has and ours are underactive. So we are,

803
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:21.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, sort of making ourselves go through these motions,

804
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.440
<v Speaker 3>and that means having a lot of anxiety. You know.

805
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:30.000
<v Speaker 3>They did an experiment where they showed typical college students

806
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.800
<v Speaker 3>and autistics college students these videos of just normal everyday interactions,

807
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.400
<v Speaker 3>and they found that the mirror neurons and the typical

808
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:41.679
<v Speaker 3>students would light up seeing these two people talking or

809
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:45.000
<v Speaker 3>flirting or whatever, and as if they were sort of

810
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:50.719
<v Speaker 3>like experiencing the same dynamic as the people in the video.

811
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.599
<v Speaker 3>But the autistics had their mentalizing that work light up.

812
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.960
<v Speaker 3>So they're mentalizing that work is trying to figure out

813
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.920
<v Speaker 3>what's going on. So instead of feeling like they're part

814
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.079
<v Speaker 3>of the scene, they're like, wait a minute, are they flirting?

815
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Are they not flirting? Is their tension here and there?

816
00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:07.360
<v Speaker 3>So they're analyzing it and this leads to again a

817
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:11.079
<v Speaker 3>lot of anxiety because they're mentally working so hard. And

818
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:13.800
<v Speaker 3>the number that always comes up is that on average,

819
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:18.559
<v Speaker 3>an autistic person's brain is working forty two percent more

820
00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:22.480
<v Speaker 3>energy than a typical brain. And that's again, our brains

821
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 3>are made to they understand that they use more more

822
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:30.599
<v Speaker 3>of our energy than other mammals do, so they really

823
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.599
<v Speaker 3>want to not think as much as possible, so, you know,

824
00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:35.920
<v Speaker 3>jumping all the way back down to top down processing.

825
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:39.119
<v Speaker 3>If you're able to see things through their umbrella concepts

826
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:44.199
<v Speaker 3>without having to consider everything individually, then you're processing a

827
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:48.400
<v Speaker 3>lot less. Where if you take eleven pennies and put

828
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:51.159
<v Speaker 3>them in somebody's hand. One person might go, I have

829
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:54.360
<v Speaker 3>eleven cents and see each penny as you know the

830
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:56.960
<v Speaker 3>concept of a penny, where some autistics might go, I

831
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.360
<v Speaker 3>have eleven different coins that are all very simil alert,

832
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.679
<v Speaker 3>but they have many differences, and to be aware of

833
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:04.639
<v Speaker 3>all those differences takes a lot more energy.

834
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a fantastic We're gonna take a short commercial

835
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.480
<v Speaker 2>break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we

836
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:18.360
<v Speaker 2>will return shortly with my guests today, Saul Smith discussing

837
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:24.840
<v Speaker 2>his lettuce book, The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery, will

838
00:51:24.840 --> 00:52:08.079
<v Speaker 2>be right back with you. My guest today is Saul Smith.

839
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:10.800
<v Speaker 2>He is a developmental coach and also the author of

840
00:52:11.239 --> 00:52:14.239
<v Speaker 2>The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery. This is working with

841
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:21.159
<v Speaker 2>neurodivergent people who see, perceive, and have different cognition than

842
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:26.840
<v Speaker 2>many of us. You get into some science in this book,

843
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:31.119
<v Speaker 2>and you apologize that to the reader that we don't

844
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:32.639
<v Speaker 2>want to get too full of size, but we do

845
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:35.199
<v Speaker 2>want to bring some of this information in because it's important.

846
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:37.559
<v Speaker 2>And one of the things I want you to describe,

847
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:39.920
<v Speaker 2>because it's I think it's critical, is what you call

848
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:43.920
<v Speaker 2>synaptic pruning and This is kind of what you just

849
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:49.800
<v Speaker 2>described where the autistic brain might overwork on a certain

850
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:55.480
<v Speaker 2>topic or an involvement or an issue. And I want

851
00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.880
<v Speaker 2>you to describe why this is an important concept.

852
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So the brain is born with kind of like

853
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:06.559
<v Speaker 3>a Swiss army knife. I always say, it has lots

854
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:08.800
<v Speaker 3>of different parts that you may or may not use.

855
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:12.760
<v Speaker 3>There's lots of different synaptic connections, and it's sort of

856
00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 3>an over abundance. And a good example is there are

857
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:22.559
<v Speaker 3>sounds in languages that some languages don't use and some

858
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.679
<v Speaker 3>languages do. Everyone is born with the ability to like

859
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:30.320
<v Speaker 3>roll ours or to do you know, different sounds that

860
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:33.199
<v Speaker 3>happen in Mandarin that don't happen in English. But by

861
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 3>the age of five, if you haven't been exposed to

862
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:37.719
<v Speaker 3>that sound, if you haven't been exposed to other people

863
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:40.840
<v Speaker 3>making that sound, you have taken that synapse out of

864
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:44.079
<v Speaker 3>your head. Your brain has removed it to use it,

865
00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:47.280
<v Speaker 3>to use that those same neurons for something else. So

866
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:50.800
<v Speaker 3>it cuts away different parts of different connections that don't

867
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:55.320
<v Speaker 3>need to be used. So yeah, yeah, so this is.

868
00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Not something that you willingly do. It's the brain automatic

869
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:05.079
<v Speaker 2>prunes the synapse with this memory and does it store

870
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.239
<v Speaker 2>it or does it just yeah, it just removes it entirely,

871
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:11.400
<v Speaker 2>and it'll use it for something else, you know.

872
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:14.039
<v Speaker 3>So like, for example, if you learn piano when you're

873
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:17.760
<v Speaker 3>seven and you stop practicing when you're eleven, eventually your

874
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.639
<v Speaker 3>brain will go up, let's take the piano parts out.

875
00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:23.960
<v Speaker 3>We're not doing that, and uh but for many autistics

876
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:27.119
<v Speaker 3>even that won't go away. They'll they'll remember how to

877
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:32.719
<v Speaker 3>do that still. So yeah, so we prune away things

878
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:34.920
<v Speaker 3>that we essentially feel like we don't need based on

879
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.880
<v Speaker 3>the world we're seeing around us, and a lot of

880
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.199
<v Speaker 3>that is guided by those mirror neurons, which is the

881
00:54:40.639 --> 00:54:42.840
<v Speaker 3>same sort of function like if you see somebody get

882
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:45.280
<v Speaker 3>punched in the stomach on television and you kind of

883
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:49.440
<v Speaker 3>feel it, or you, you know, pick a print, prick

884
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:52.159
<v Speaker 3>a palm with a pin and you feel it in

885
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:55.119
<v Speaker 3>your hand. Those are your mirror neurons acting up, and

886
00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:58.320
<v Speaker 3>you're feeling what somebody else is feeling. You're going through

887
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:03.199
<v Speaker 3>what they're going through, and so, gosh, I'm sorry. This

888
00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:06.840
<v Speaker 3>interesting fact that if you show again that let's take

889
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:09.159
<v Speaker 3>a pin and you prick somebody's palm with it, most

890
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.480
<v Speaker 3>people will feel that if you do it to an

891
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.239
<v Speaker 3>epe on television, most people will feel that. If you

892
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.119
<v Speaker 3>do it to a lizard, people don't feel it. We

893
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:21.599
<v Speaker 3>have no camaraderie with reptiles. It's weird anyway. So that's

894
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.480
<v Speaker 3>so this is how like intricate and weird brains are.

895
00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:30.039
<v Speaker 3>So we're exercising different connections and if you don't exercise them,

896
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:32.960
<v Speaker 3>they'll usually go away. But autistics, since we have underactive

897
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:36.639
<v Speaker 3>mirror neurons, we're behaving in different ways and we have

898
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:40.360
<v Speaker 3>this abundance of connections that we may or may not use,

899
00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:43.400
<v Speaker 3>but they are not trimmed away in the same in

900
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:46.239
<v Speaker 3>the same measures. So by the time you're an adult,

901
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:50.159
<v Speaker 3>there's different times where the trimming really happens. When you're three,

902
00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:54.199
<v Speaker 3>when you're seven, when you're twelve or fourteen. By the

903
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.639
<v Speaker 3>time you're an adult, a autistic person will have something

904
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.440
<v Speaker 3>like thirty three percent more synaptic connections than a non

905
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:04.360
<v Speaker 3>autistic because the brain is still going like, well, we

906
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:06.320
<v Speaker 3>might have to use this, we may have to do

907
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:10.760
<v Speaker 3>this stuff because you're overthinking and overworking different functions in

908
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.960
<v Speaker 3>order to try to fit in instead of being very efficient.

909
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.280
<v Speaker 3>And so that's really what masking is is behaving trying

910
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:21.400
<v Speaker 3>to behave within the realm of the synaptic connections of

911
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:23.760
<v Speaker 3>people around you, but you still have these other ones

912
00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:27.800
<v Speaker 3>happening that either you know, or out of sync or

913
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.320
<v Speaker 3>out of line or or whatever. So yeah, it is.

914
00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I was just going to bring up masking. Yeah, you're

915
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:39.639
<v Speaker 2>saying that the masking is not divulging that you have

916
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:40.800
<v Speaker 2>this memory still.

917
00:56:41.719 --> 00:56:44.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's sort of It's like the way that I

918
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:46.400
<v Speaker 3>sort of put it is there's this notion of like

919
00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:49.880
<v Speaker 3>how much of me is allowed in this room. You know,

920
00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:52.159
<v Speaker 3>if you come into a room with people and you

921
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.519
<v Speaker 3>have to behave a certain way, like we all know

922
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:57.000
<v Speaker 3>for example, like we have a customer service voice, or

923
00:56:57.000 --> 00:56:59.800
<v Speaker 3>if you're in a job interview, you behave a certain way, right,

924
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:03.599
<v Speaker 3>But most people, if they go to their friend's house

925
00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:05.400
<v Speaker 3>or they go to a party or the hanging out

926
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.559
<v Speaker 3>with their family, they can behave however they want to

927
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.280
<v Speaker 3>and it's acceptable and it's cool. An autistic person is

928
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.519
<v Speaker 3>still doing that code coding. They're still trying to behave

929
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:21.920
<v Speaker 3>a certain way because themselves it's a much sort of

930
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.639
<v Speaker 3>a bigger experience of who they feel like they are,

931
00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:30.079
<v Speaker 3>and they basically try to match the expectations of people

932
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:34.400
<v Speaker 3>around them, where the typical way to form a personality

933
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:39.719
<v Speaker 3>is that your personality sort of gets finalized in your

934
00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:43.559
<v Speaker 3>early teens and you have trimmed away things and you've

935
00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:46.519
<v Speaker 3>exercised certain connections and then that's kind of who you are.

936
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.440
<v Speaker 3>And you know, personality scientists they have a lot of

937
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.960
<v Speaker 3>fun with theories about what a personality is, but essentially,

938
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.760
<v Speaker 3>a personality helps us to connect with other people and

939
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:58.280
<v Speaker 3>work with other people, and the autistics have to do

940
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:01.719
<v Speaker 3>this very manually, you know. It Really it feels a

941
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.000
<v Speaker 3>lot like you're trying to fit into another culture. So

942
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:06.880
<v Speaker 3>if you were going into a party with a lot

943
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.119
<v Speaker 3>of Australians and you were trying to convince them that

944
00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.880
<v Speaker 3>you're from Australia too, that's what it would be like,

945
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:13.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, and like you might be good at it,

946
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:15.480
<v Speaker 3>you might not. You might try to pick a really

947
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:18.039
<v Speaker 3>remote region of Australia where you're from, so nobody's going

948
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:22.239
<v Speaker 3>to relate to it. But it's definitely, you know, trying

949
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:26.320
<v Speaker 3>to fit in rather than just fitting in, and that's

950
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:30.679
<v Speaker 3>sort of difficult just because people are very narrow in

951
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:34.800
<v Speaker 3>general with what they see as fitting in and there's

952
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:37.199
<v Speaker 3>a you know, we usually hang out with people a

953
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:42.320
<v Speaker 3>lot like us, and there are very few autistic spaces

954
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:44.519
<v Speaker 3>that I've been to where there are a lot of

955
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:48.199
<v Speaker 3>autistics together at once. And a good example is for me,

956
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:52.679
<v Speaker 3>as a Rubik's cube competition my daughter. My daughter competes

957
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:57.159
<v Speaker 3>Rubik's cube and she's very very good. She can solve

958
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:01.400
<v Speaker 3>a Rubk's cube in six seconds and I know, right,

959
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:03.679
<v Speaker 3>and she still hasn't, you know, even taken third place

960
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:07.199
<v Speaker 3>in any of these things. But you you come into

961
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:10.280
<v Speaker 3>this space with all of these autistics of different ages,

962
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:15.079
<v Speaker 3>and their behavior in how they interact with each other

963
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:19.159
<v Speaker 3>is really various. Like there's just a lot of different

964
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:22.199
<v Speaker 3>things happening in that room, and yet everybody's really getting

965
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:24.280
<v Speaker 3>along because they have this one thing that we're all

966
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:26.599
<v Speaker 3>talking about and that we're all relating to and that

967
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.960
<v Speaker 3>we're all comparing things with, and they're all you know,

968
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.559
<v Speaker 3>working on different kinds of cubes at different times, and

969
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:35.480
<v Speaker 3>it's really it's really nice and exciting. And it's the

970
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.360
<v Speaker 3>one place where I've seen, you know, my daughter, for example,

971
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:40.280
<v Speaker 3>just be able to relax and be herself and make

972
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:42.960
<v Speaker 3>lots of friends, and she feels like in control there

973
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:46.440
<v Speaker 3>because she's not editing herself, she's not trying to fit

974
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:47.639
<v Speaker 3>it into any sort of box.

975
00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:51.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fascinating. Your book deals with a lot of your

976
00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:54.199
<v Speaker 2>life coaching, and this is also something that you do.

977
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:58.159
<v Speaker 2>How do you work with somebody who has social issues,

978
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:02.119
<v Speaker 2>who is having trouble integrating And it could be a

979
01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:04.679
<v Speaker 2>variety of topics. Could be a student who's trying to

980
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:07.800
<v Speaker 2>integrate into a new school. It could be as you

981
01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:11.039
<v Speaker 2>say that, this is a situation where someone's got a

982
01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:14.079
<v Speaker 2>new job. They and they want to you know, integrate

983
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and work with the new companions, the work partners and

984
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:21.199
<v Speaker 2>so forth and so on. What are your suggestions? How

985
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.000
<v Speaker 2>do you go about do you evaluate the individual? Are

986
01:00:24.039 --> 01:00:29.400
<v Speaker 2>there are there some tried and true programs that you

987
01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:32.480
<v Speaker 2>integrate into your teaching.

988
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:35.360
<v Speaker 3>God, that's a good question. I would say that for

989
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:40.039
<v Speaker 3>the most part, it is very much very individual, which

990
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:44.880
<v Speaker 3>is makes it very difficult, right because we're all kind

991
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:49.079
<v Speaker 3>of experiencing different things in different places and we have

992
01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:53.360
<v Speaker 3>to try and see how that individual like. Basically, you know,

993
01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:57.039
<v Speaker 3>sometimes you do have to ask. Sometimes your job might

994
01:00:57.079 --> 01:00:59.719
<v Speaker 3>be in danger if you don't. And in order to

995
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:01.800
<v Speaker 3>get to the next step, you know, we would love

996
01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:04.199
<v Speaker 3>to be able to say, hey, I'm autistic, so let's

997
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:08.840
<v Speaker 3>be accepting of that. There's nothing saying that that that'll work, right,

998
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:12.840
<v Speaker 3>So sometimes we do have to sort of like try

999
01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:16.400
<v Speaker 3>and read the room differently, but with the understanding that

1000
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:18.239
<v Speaker 3>if you're going to do this, you know, maybe be

1001
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:21.320
<v Speaker 3>looking for another job, or find lots and lots of

1002
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:25.199
<v Speaker 3>ways that you can keep doing things for yourself outside

1003
01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:28.760
<v Speaker 3>of your work so that you're able to use that

1004
01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:33.079
<v Speaker 3>bandwidth and function at home, because a lot of us

1005
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:34.960
<v Speaker 3>get to a point where we get home from work

1006
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:38.280
<v Speaker 3>and we're just so exhausted. We don't have any hobbies

1007
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:41.960
<v Speaker 3>or interests or social life because we're just exhausted from

1008
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.760
<v Speaker 3>trying to act like everybody else. So there's lots of

1009
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.559
<v Speaker 3>different ways to sort of try and balance things out

1010
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:51.320
<v Speaker 3>and change your environment. But in general, you know, as

1011
01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:54.239
<v Speaker 3>far as like common tools of how to deal with

1012
01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:58.559
<v Speaker 3>that kind of thing, yeah, it's I think that the

1013
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:59.920
<v Speaker 3>first thing that a lot of us have to do

1014
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:04.119
<v Speaker 3>is really reconcile our identity, really take a look back

1015
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:09.280
<v Speaker 3>at the way that autism has influenced our development, our growth,

1016
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:13.679
<v Speaker 3>our history, and hopefully get rid of a lot of

1017
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:16.079
<v Speaker 3>shame that may have come with that, a lot of

1018
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.079
<v Speaker 3>shame of our you know, job history, social histories, and

1019
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.760
<v Speaker 3>be able to feel more comfortable as who we are.

1020
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:27.119
<v Speaker 3>But that's it's a it's a long road.

1021
01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Mm. Do you think AI can help autism?

1022
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.639
<v Speaker 3>And maybe a lot of people are working on that.

1023
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious to know what your feelings are on that.

1024
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:39.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what what? Well, what I've seen with that? And

1025
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm you know, I'm not a huge fan of AI

1026
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.920
<v Speaker 3>in general, and I know that we but but it's

1027
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.599
<v Speaker 3>not a general thing, right, Like it's used for very

1028
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:48.960
<v Speaker 3>individual things, but we do see it as a in

1029
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:52.199
<v Speaker 3>general like I you know, student rights are essay and AI.

1030
01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:54.880
<v Speaker 3>It's it's gross to me because why go to school?

1031
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:58.840
<v Speaker 3>But you know, but on the other hand, if you

1032
01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:02.320
<v Speaker 3>have a lot to say to your boss, and you

1033
01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:05.760
<v Speaker 3>know that after so much time, they're going to feel

1034
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:08.079
<v Speaker 3>like you're just ranting, they're gonna like you have a

1035
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:10.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of details, a lot of things to say. You

1036
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:14.559
<v Speaker 3>could write it out and ask AI. You know, I'm autistic,

1037
01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:16.280
<v Speaker 3>this is what I want to this is what I

1038
01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:19.119
<v Speaker 3>want to communicate to my boss. How can I make

1039
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:22.679
<v Speaker 3>it work for a neurotypical person? Who's higher in the

1040
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:24.800
<v Speaker 3>hierarchy than I am, and it might be able to

1041
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:27.280
<v Speaker 3>give you some good tips or trim it down or something.

1042
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.400
<v Speaker 3>And it may feel to the autistic person like, wow,

1043
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.519
<v Speaker 3>what this is saying doesn't really capture what I mean.

1044
01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:36.800
<v Speaker 3>But sometimes it does, it just doesn't really to us.

1045
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:42.400
<v Speaker 3>So there is that possibility for sure to be able

1046
01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:44.039
<v Speaker 3>to sort of use it as a translator. And I've

1047
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:47.880
<v Speaker 3>tried to build some but it's just it's been very

1048
01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:50.679
<v Speaker 3>mixed because again it's very individual. So it's possible that

1049
01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:53.599
<v Speaker 3>you know, there there could be sometime in the future

1050
01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:57.880
<v Speaker 3>a way to sort of solve some aspects of this

1051
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:02.960
<v Speaker 3>communication problem by having the AI be very closely trained

1052
01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:07.000
<v Speaker 3>to the individual and understand them and then try to

1053
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:11.440
<v Speaker 3>make that understood to somebody else. But yeah, in the meantime,

1054
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.719
<v Speaker 3>there's you know, people like me who try to do that.

1055
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:19.599
<v Speaker 2>Excellent. The books call The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery.

1056
01:04:19.639 --> 01:04:24.599
<v Speaker 2>My guess has been Saul Smith. As we conclude, don't

1057
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you think it would be helpful if someone who suspects

1058
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:32.280
<v Speaker 2>their autistic does have some form of diagnostics, does have

1059
01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:39.360
<v Speaker 2>a either a test or some form of professional evaluation,

1060
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.000
<v Speaker 2>so that they have a ground to work with.

1061
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I do think it's a good idea for people

1062
01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:50.639
<v Speaker 3>to have some sort of an outside measure, and like,

1063
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:54.840
<v Speaker 3>there are lots of different online you know, quizzes and

1064
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:58.079
<v Speaker 3>things that can help you sort of self assessed. One

1065
01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:00.719
<v Speaker 3>of the best ones I've seen for late Die knows autistics.

1066
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:04.719
<v Speaker 3>It's called the cat Q c at dash Q and

1067
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:10.280
<v Speaker 3>it's called the Camouflaging Autistic Traits Questionnaire, and I think

1068
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:15.800
<v Speaker 3>it's it's on a website called Rethinking Autism, and it's

1069
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:17.920
<v Speaker 3>it's very good. It's very good at sort of like

1070
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:22.760
<v Speaker 3>where like the normal DSM feels very clinical and it's

1071
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:26.000
<v Speaker 3>from the outside. The CATQ really tries to get at

1072
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:29.639
<v Speaker 3>things that you may be experiencing, more like how you

1073
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:33.440
<v Speaker 3>experience social situations and things. And it's very it's very very.

1074
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:41.239
<v Speaker 2>Good, fantastic. Give us your website. It's professorsol dot com.

1075
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:43.639
<v Speaker 2>So o L dot com.

1076
01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:46.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right, professorsoul dot com. It's like home base.

1077
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:49.280
<v Speaker 3>I've got, you know, from there, one on one coaching,

1078
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:51.639
<v Speaker 3>and I also have a coaching community where people can

1079
01:05:51.760 --> 01:05:54.639
<v Speaker 3>come to support groups. We have like twenty two different

1080
01:05:54.679 --> 01:05:56.559
<v Speaker 3>support groups every week. Now. I have a lot of

1081
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:59.159
<v Speaker 3>different leaders who come in and I lead four or

1082
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:02.280
<v Speaker 3>five of them every week and it's it's been a

1083
01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:04.519
<v Speaker 3>really great thing to sort of like relate to each

1084
01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:07.320
<v Speaker 3>other as well. And then yeah, one on one coaching

1085
01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.880
<v Speaker 3>is that professor soul as well, and that of course

1086
01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:11.880
<v Speaker 3>gives you the sort of individual attention you may feel

1087
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:12.320
<v Speaker 3>like you need.

1088
01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:15.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Also, I want our listeners to know that you

1089
01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:18.800
<v Speaker 2>have a great YouTube channel where you have these I

1090
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:22.679
<v Speaker 2>want to call them short vignettes of statements, but I mean,

1091
01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:25.119
<v Speaker 2>is that how you designed it? Because I couldn't find

1092
01:06:25.159 --> 01:06:28.800
<v Speaker 2>anything more than like a couple of minute long I

1093
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.880
<v Speaker 2>call them because they're little themes.

1094
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:34.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there'll be a little like you know, maybe one

1095
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:37.079
<v Speaker 3>to three minute things. Sometimes they'll go a little over

1096
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:41.519
<v Speaker 3>that on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram to sort of try to

1097
01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:44.320
<v Speaker 3>try to cover yeah, one sort of concept at a time.

1098
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:49.679
<v Speaker 3>And then I do have like much more long long

1099
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:53.480
<v Speaker 3>form content, like like an online course that really discusses

1100
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:56.000
<v Speaker 3>some of this stuff in more depth. And that's again

1101
01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:58.920
<v Speaker 3>on my website and in the community. It's a it's

1102
01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:02.280
<v Speaker 3>a free resource for Comuity members as well. But yeah,

1103
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:05.079
<v Speaker 3>it's in general, you know, I try to try to

1104
01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:10.039
<v Speaker 3>make things for the the adhd TikTok attention span of

1105
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:13.840
<v Speaker 3>around three minutes. It's a challenge because I'm very verbose,

1106
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:15.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm not very efficient with what I want to say.

1107
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I love it. What do you see the future, Assaul?

1108
01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:22.559
<v Speaker 2>What do you What do you feel with AI in

1109
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:29.119
<v Speaker 2>getting involved with more awareness? What? What does the future hold?

1110
01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:34.760
<v Speaker 3>I hope that the future holds more understanding for everybody

1111
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:38.559
<v Speaker 3>as an individual, for everybody's individual talents and challenges, and

1112
01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:41.639
<v Speaker 3>for all of us to be able to find a

1113
01:07:41.679 --> 01:07:46.760
<v Speaker 3>way to you know, contribute and feel included in in

1114
01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:51.280
<v Speaker 3>whatever our culture is. But basically an expansion, an expansion

1115
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:56.039
<v Speaker 3>of what is considered normal and to have autistic folks feel,

1116
01:07:56.639 --> 01:07:59.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, grow up feeling normal, grow up feeling like,

1117
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:01.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, I have a certain toolkit that other people

1118
01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:04.039
<v Speaker 3>don't have, and I don't have to hide to the

1119
01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:05.360
<v Speaker 3>things that are different about me.

1120
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:09.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fantastic. Hey much success on this, Thank you book

1121
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:12.159
<v Speaker 2>and thanks for joining me today.

1122
01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:13.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you very much.

1123
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I forgot to mention that this book, The Autistics Guide

1124
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:23.359
<v Speaker 2>to Self Discovery, just came out. You can get it

1125
01:08:23.399 --> 01:08:29.840
<v Speaker 2>on Amazon. It's also audible wherever you get your books locally.

1126
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you can find it. It's a New World Library,

1127
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:40.560
<v Speaker 2>which is a California publisher, but they're distributed by major companies. Hey,

1128
01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:44.359
<v Speaker 2>what to remind you that we have our first top

1129
01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:47.119
<v Speaker 2>of the line tour of the year. It's our seventh

1130
01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Anniel Grant Egyptian Tour April twenty eight through May tenth.

1131
01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:55.239
<v Speaker 2>This tour is outrageously fun. We call it a diplomatic

1132
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:58.560
<v Speaker 2>tour because we treat you like a diplomat. From the

1133
01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:00.680
<v Speaker 2>start to the finish. You're picked up at the airport,

1134
01:09:01.079 --> 01:09:04.319
<v Speaker 2>delivered to your hotel. From the first day to the

1135
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:08.039
<v Speaker 2>last day, your treated like royalty. And I got to

1136
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:11.159
<v Speaker 2>tell you, not only do we float on and travel

1137
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:15.359
<v Speaker 2>on the Nile, our buses are first class, your food,

1138
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:19.840
<v Speaker 2>your beverages, most of the visits are private and it's

1139
01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:22.079
<v Speaker 2>not to be missed. I've been doing this thing for

1140
01:09:22.640 --> 01:09:26.760
<v Speaker 2>seven plus years and it is fantastic. Thanks to Mohammad

1141
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Imbrahem and Noha his wife, and Saba Tours. They are excellent.

1142
01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.039
<v Speaker 2>It's Saba means Stargate. If you want to know what

1143
01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that means. For all the information, all the details, go

1144
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:41.840
<v Speaker 2>to earthancients dot com forward Slash Tours. Look at the itinerary,

1145
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:44.199
<v Speaker 2>check it out. It's going to be a great tour.

1146
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:47.319
<v Speaker 2>We only think about twenty twenty five people max, so

1147
01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:50.439
<v Speaker 2>we can get into these special places and the reason

1148
01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:53.880
<v Speaker 2>we're doing it not only for our annual tour, but

1149
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:56.960
<v Speaker 2>there are so many new things to see, including the

1150
01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:00.960
<v Speaker 2>new Grand Egyptian Museum in Chiro. It's just gonna be

1151
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:03.680
<v Speaker 2>a blast again. For all the details, go to Earthangines

1152
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:07.880
<v Speaker 2>dot com Forward slash Tours, come out and join us.

1153
01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:11.159
<v Speaker 2>All right, that's it for this program. And when I

1154
01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:14.239
<v Speaker 2>think my guest today's Soul Smith in his new book,

1155
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:17.760
<v Speaker 2>The Autistics Guide to Self Discovery, as always a team

1156
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:25.600
<v Speaker 2>of guiltour Mark Foster and Feya Bavar. You guys rock

1157
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.119
<v Speaker 2>all right, take care of you will and we will

1158
01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:29.359
<v Speaker 2>talk to you next time,