WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.680 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.400 free access to these shows and a ton of other 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.120 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 4 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.759 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 5 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.759 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.559 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 7 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.079 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 8 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.800 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 9 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.719 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 10 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.000 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 11 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.479 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 12 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.320 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 13 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.960 we're approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive 14 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.359 into our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.359 some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long 16 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.439 form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout 17 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:53.600 the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. We have 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.240 a streamline sign up for me and you can pay 19 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.840 with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit 20 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.119 card in one or two minutes from right now, you 21 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.320 can be a VIP member and diving into our library 22 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.120 PW torch dot Com, slash Go VIP. 23 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:17.040 Now. 24 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:21.000 PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro 25 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:26.239 Wrestling Podcast. 26 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:26.840 Ten years ago. 27 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:29.239 This week on the flagship, Jason Powell from Progrestling dot 28 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.319 Net joined me and we talked about John Cenas comeback promo, 29 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:36.560 the Nikky Breeze segments, pros and cons, evaluating the progress 30 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.359 of Roman Reigns, the future of TNA, our weekly Global 31 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.439 Force Wrestling Update that was Jeff Jarrett's startup group that 32 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:47.280 amounted to a website with faces of free agents added 33 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:49.319 on a semi regular basis. We also want to mix 34 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.840 of calls and emails as usual on the show. This 35 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:55.680 originally live streamed on August twenty six, twenty fourteen, and 36 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:59.640 it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years ago. 37 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.359 Flakes flashback for Wednesday, August twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. 38 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.879 This is the PW Torch live cast. It is Tuesday, 39 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:21.280 August twenty sixth, twenty fourteen. I'm Wade Keller, editor and 40 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.479 publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter going on twenty 41 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:28.000 seven years. I started the newsletter back in nineteen eighty 42 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:33.840 seven and it's evolved from there into website, phone apps, podcasts, 43 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:36.319 audio shows, and we are here five days a week 44 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.319 fourth the PW Torch Live Cast, and we've been on 45 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.080 the air almost five years and we appreciate you joining 46 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.520 us today. I host on Tuesdays and Fridays most weeks. 47 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.520 This week I'll be hosting on Thursday instead of Friday. 48 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.520 My guest will be Mick carsh, former AWA announcer, longtime 49 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:54.560 indie wresting announcer, and he'll be on to talk about 50 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:58.719 Paul hayman early years. Paul Hayman's spent some of his 51 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:00.360 early years in the business in the late a he's 52 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.879 in the AWA, mccarsh was around him. Then we'll talk 53 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.039 about Paul and how far Paul has come and just 54 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.800 the amazing interviews he has produced lately, and that will 55 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.000 Kaian nicey with people learning a lot about Paul with 56 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.080 that DVD that came out this month. And also McK 57 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.000 carsh was at a big indie show on Saturday night 58 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:18.919 just outside of d Luth, Minnesota, with a lot of 59 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:20.879 big names on the show, we'll talk about that and 60 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.360 just the evolution of and the changes in the indie 61 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.120 wrestling scene over the years as Mick has experienced it. 62 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.960 He also follows the current wrestling scene and has strong 63 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.280 opinions on what goes on in wrestling. He's been following 64 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:35.159 wrestling for decades and decades used to run the Nick 65 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.240 Bockwinkle Fan Club. Nick Bockwinkle because of the AWA kind 66 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:44.759 of fading out of common history references because WWWWF history 67 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.719 kind of dominates, doesn't get the acclaim he deserves. One 68 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.159 of the best workers of all time. Mick was also 69 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.039 a former Torch columnist, So that'd be a good show 70 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.919 on Thursday. I hope you can join us live at 71 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:56.639 five point thirty Eastern tomorrow. Just get a couple plugs 72 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.000 out of the way right away. Tomorrow Pat McNeil will 73 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.879 be hosting the Live care and his guest will be 74 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:06.000 Kamala the Ugandan Giants. So join Pat for that. That 75 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:08.159 should be fun. And if you did not hear it 76 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.560 last Friday, Stone called Steve Austin was back on the show. 77 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:15.520 Over two hours with Steve Austin. I was on with 78 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.199 him one on one doing a long, pretty long form 79 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:22.079 interview talking about today's wrestling scene and getting his thoughts 80 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:24.920 on how wrestling main event wrestlers today are different than 81 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.759 main event wrestlers in his day, and his opinions on 82 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:31.480 Roman reigns and seth rollins and many other things going 83 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:34.600 on at WWE, and also so candid in depth outs 84 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.879 on his possible return. I got a ton of plugs 85 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.360 out of the way at the beginning and set the 86 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.920 stage Kamala tomorrow too. Remember that send in your questions 87 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.600 for Kamala and Pat McNeil for tomorrow's show. PW Torchlive 88 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.079 Cast at gmail dot com. That is p W Torchlive 89 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.920 Cast at gmail dot com. You can also send in 90 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.759 right now if you're listening to us live topics you 91 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.120 want to discuss on today's show. So now shifting to 92 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:02.600 today's show, Jason Powell from prog Wrestling dot Net joins me. Jason, 93 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.399 Welcome to the show. Hey, good to be here, Wade, 94 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:07.920 excellent to have you. I'm sure a little bit later 95 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:10.879 we'll talk about the Kevin Love trade that became official 96 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.040 over the weekend and has been a subject on my 97 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:16.319 Twitter feed at the Wade Keller this afternoon as press 98 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.480 conferences were held. Jason, your casual Wolves fan. I know 99 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:20.959 you talked about it on your Q and A for 100 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:23.920 dot net members, but you called me the most optimistic 101 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.279 Kimberes fan ever and I should have a jersey, a 102 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.839 number retired or something like that. What as a casual 103 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:31.680 observer the Wolves? Real quick? What is your thought on 104 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.120 the I love trade? And maybe we'll get more into 105 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.680 it later on. 106 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:36.399 Sure i'man knowing nothing about these guys because I'm just 107 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.759 not a basketball guy as far as like the younger 108 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.639 talent is concerned. It just it sounds like the like 109 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.720 Flip Saunders the Wolves GM and coach, and I don't 110 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:46.120 have whatever else other positions. 111 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:46.720 Heis everything. 112 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:48.480 Yeah, yeah, he played his cards right, you know what 113 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.120 I mean? Because there was so much pressure to make 114 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.079 the deal on Draft Day and there just wasn't a 115 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.360 good deal on the table. And then obviously everything kind 116 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:57.720 of fell into place when Lebron went back to Cleveland 117 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.240 and they wanted to become an instant contender and so 118 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.680 that opened the door. And it looks like he's I mean, 119 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:06.040 you know, if things go great, this is gonna be 120 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:07.759 remembered as a gem of a move. And even if 121 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.079 things go poorly, I still think he made the best 122 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:12.079 move he could possibly make for this team right now. 123 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.920 Yeah, I don't think any Wills fan would have imagined something. 124 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.079 I don't. Actually, I think the two happiest basketball cities 125 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.160 right now should be Minnesota or Minneapolis and Cleveland, because 126 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:25.800 I mean, you couldn't think of a better case scenario 127 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:27.800 for Cleveland to get Vin Love, a perfect compliment to 128 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.839 Kyrie Irving and Lebron James, and then Minnesota getting what 129 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:33.720 they got instead of just being burned a year from 130 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:36.920 now when Love left for nothing or you know, a 131 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.240 Lane trade, which often happens when a superstar force is 132 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.680 a trade. This could set the Woz over the future. 133 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.759 So it's fun anyway, had some fun with that. Press 134 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:46.800 conference has just ended an hour or two ago, so 135 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.040 it's fresh on my mind and fresh on the Twitter feed. 136 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:52.319 I think Love and anybody who's a Cleveland fan or 137 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.279 a Lebron fan who doesn't isn't excited about Love being 138 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.480 traded there hasn't watched much Kevin Love because he's gonna 139 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.560 be They're gonna win some titles. He's an amazing and 140 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.800 cool player. All right, Let's shift the wrestling here and 141 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.800 talk some content from Raw last night. The top item, 142 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:10.199 Jason is John Cena speaking for the first time on 143 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:14.639 TV since the brock lesnar defeat, the crushing defeat. Your 144 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:20.000 thoughts on the job that John Cena did in selling 145 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.360 the rematch and responding to what happened at Summer Slide. 146 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.439 Yikes, do we go back to talking about the Wolves? 147 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:27.560 Oh, there's a reason I did so much at the 148 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.480 beginning of the show because I didn't exactly have things 149 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.600 I was excited to talk about as usual in terms 150 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:33.199 of positives. 151 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.800 This week, Yeah, it was just kind of everything's back 152 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:38.240 to normal with John Cena already. I mean, you don't 153 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.839 even It's like they give him the big beat down 154 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.720 and then they erase it, you know, eight days later. 155 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.519 We didn't get to see him struggling on last week's 156 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:47.839 Rat thought it was a good move that he was 157 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.879 off that show, and I thought he still should have 158 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:51.879 been selling a little bit here, and instead he comes 159 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:54.439 out and he's just more dominant than he's ever been. 160 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.480 I mean, I know they have a pay per view 161 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.279 to sell quickly, and I get that, and you have 162 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.879 to do something to make people who saw the SummerSlam 163 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.439 match think there's a reason John Scene is going to win. 164 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:06.279 But give me a week, you know, give me a 165 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:10.160 week of John Cena doubting himself a little bit something. Instead, 166 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.920 they just everything's back to normal and super Scene is 167 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:13.759 back better than ever. 168 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:18.839 Yes, yes, absolutely, And I mean I could have I 169 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.000 expect I was sort of like the Nicky Brie segment. 170 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:22.720 I thought it could have been. I expected it to be. 171 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:24.519 I shouldn't say I expected was seen it to be worse. 172 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.759 It could have been worse. Nicki and Brie expected it 173 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:28.360 to be worse, and it turned out better than I thought. 174 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.439 The Scena thing, I talked all week on Keller Hotline 175 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.120 for VIP members and various formats. I was really excited 176 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:35.639 to see what Sena would do. I thought this was 177 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.360 a unique circumstance for him to take a beating like that, 178 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:41.320 a guy who normally doesn't take that kind of a beating, 179 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:43.559 to come out and do a different type of promo. 180 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:45.679 And I think they just skipped the whole chapter. And 181 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:47.519 I think that's what you're getting at, Jason. I'm fine 182 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:51.399 with Sena giving himself a pep talk and saying, you know, 183 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:53.919 I'm gonna I've got a strategy I know, I think 184 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:56.759 I know what I did wrong. Lesler's gonna go win 185 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.559 over confidence. I'm going to take advantage of that, like 186 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.200 really give us some subst but do that in a 187 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.960 week or two right before the pay per view. This 188 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:06.440 I think was a week for him to almost seem 189 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.039 like he was in a funk, like he was in 190 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:12.679 a daze, like he was that it really affected him 191 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.519 greatly mentally, that he lost the way that he did 192 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.240 and sell that match. I do think there's that disappointment, 193 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.200 I guess among people who look for Sena to just 194 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.919 be Supersiena, that he was Superscena again. I mean, he's 195 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:27.759 standing on the ring apron and that six man take 196 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:31.039 in the main event, and there's absolutely no sense as 197 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.840 he's riling up the crowd and cheering him on and 198 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.399 reaching for a hot tag. There's just no sense. Jason, 199 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:40.000 he took a beating of a lifetime that properly sold 200 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.039 should have. I mean, if I had my pick, would 201 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.440 have led to him skipping Night of Champions and not 202 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.279 even being in the ring for you know, a month 203 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:49.600 or six weeks and really selling it. 204 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:51.600 Yeah, and I'm not even crazy about them going right 205 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:53.919 back to this match. I just know there's just no 206 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.879 reason to I think this is if things don't work 207 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.240 out with Roman Reigns for whatever reason, that's a match 208 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.279 you consider going back to a Mania. That's a match 209 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.879 you consider going back to it next year SummerSlam if 210 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.120 you still have access to brock Lesner, and I assume 211 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:12.159 they will. But yet last night, it's just why, why 212 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.000 do they always have to position him so strong? I 213 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.440 just think that's part of the reason he stalled out. 214 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.240 And it's not like he's in a horrible position and 215 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.720 everyone hates him. He obviously has a big fan base 216 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.200 and he sells a lot of merchandise. But I just 217 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:30.440 think even his even like his fans, would like to 218 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:32.399 see some more ups and downs, even if they're not 219 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.759 consciously thinking of it. It just makes the character so 220 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:38.200 much more compelling when it's not just the same thing 221 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.519 week in and week out. And we just took a 222 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:42.159 break for one week and we're right back to the 223 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:42.639 same thing. 224 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.039 Yeah, So I was disappointed of that real quol. We'll 225 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:46.559 talk more about that as show goes on. I'm sure 226 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:49.200 Brion Nicky one of the other big segments of the show, 227 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:51.759 were you with me that this was better than you 228 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.320 feared or anticipated. 229 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.519 One half of it was I thought Nicky was really good. 230 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.559 I was pleasantly surprised by her performance because the only thing, 231 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:03.200 only a bit, what she's shown is to pout. I mean, yes, 232 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:06.000 in any situation, she pouts, and it's the weirdest thing. 233 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.440 So last night it kind of felt like a little 234 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:12.080 bit of Steph light maybe, but I'll take that because, 235 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.039 I mean, if you're going to emulate someone, Stephanie is 236 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:16.919 a pretty good person too, right now, if you're a diva. 237 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.240 So I thought she she did really well. On the 238 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:23.879 flip side, oh man, Brie Vella is a terrible actress. 239 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.759 We're talking like bad porn level acting here. 240 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.440 She's terrible, she is, and and they just shouldn't ask 241 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:33.240 people to do things they can't do. Big Show can 242 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.120 cry on Q, Rick Flair can cry on Q, but 243 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.360 you know Bree can't. I mean, it just it's just 244 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.879 not in it's not on her skill set, and they 245 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.759 shouldn't be putting her in that position. I didn't love 246 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:47.679 the segment by any means. It's just I was expecting 247 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:50.279 it to be just awful. I mean, just really a disaster, 248 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.720 and only Brie was was close to awful, arguably awful. 249 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.480 Nikki was a pleasant surprise, and the interplay was good. 250 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.840 During a lot of it, I really did not like 251 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.200 and I thought I'd actually just showed a complete lack 252 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.240 of like maturity and discipline on the part of the 253 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.080 writing team. Assuming it wasn't improvised when Nikki said I 254 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.159 wish you died in the womb, it doesn't that that 255 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.799 line just didn't need to be there. For one, it's 256 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:15.840 going too far, just takes people to a whole place 257 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.799 that you don't watch wrestling for, you know, thinking of 258 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:20.919 babies dying in the womb is just come on, really, 259 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:22.960 I mean, that's that's part of selling a match. But 260 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.639 for one sister to say it to another, what it 261 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:29.080 did is it took a believable sibling conflict with Breeze 262 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:32.519 at bad acting aside. And you know, because siblings fight, 263 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.080 but grown up siblings in their twenties and beyond don't 264 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.840 say I wish you died in the womb in the 265 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:41.399 heat of a moment. You don't need to go there. 266 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.600 It's like Scott Hall told me on a torch truck 267 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.559 that I did with him back. 268 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.080 I don't know. 269 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:47.639 However, many years ago. It was like seven eight hours 270 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:49.840 of a marathon session with Scott Hall back about seven 271 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.559 eight years ago, and he was one of the things 272 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:53.240 that I stood out the most from that interview is 273 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.080 how much he hates when wrestlers say I'm going to 274 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.000 kill you, because nobody watching really believes the wrestlers going 275 00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:02.879 to kill somebody, and so when you take it out 276 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.279 of the realm of possibility, you break that suspension to 277 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.480 disbelief and take people out of the moment. That just 278 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.279 I didn't like that at all, Json, I just don't. 279 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:11.879 It just felt like a step too far, And I 280 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:13.879 thought Nicky was good enough, she didn't need to go there. 281 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.480 No, I don't know if Yeah, if that was scripted, 282 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.200 I can't believe that made it through the process. If 283 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:23.240 it was her just kind of going off script, then 284 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:25.360 I hope they sat her down afterward and had a 285 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:27.440 talk with her about that line. That was really bad. 286 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:29.559 Yeah. 287 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.240 You can support us on Patreon and get these shows 288 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.080 with ads and plugs remove the Weight Keller Prosing podcast, 289 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.960 Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily 290 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.039 cast throughout the week with ads and plugs Remove, plus 291 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.519 a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just 292 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:46.559 four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it 293 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:51.600 out patreon dot com slash PW torch VIP. That's Patreon 294 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:54.519 dot com slash PW torch VIP and you can also 295 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.200 upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. 296 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.960 All right, Well, let's go to the phone lines here, 297 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.440 and we got some people on the VIP Express line 298 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.399 on hold. Our phone number is six four six seven 299 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.320 to one nine A two eight. This is the PW 300 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.679 Torch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, editor and founder 301 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.799 of Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and PW torch dot Com, 302 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:23.039 joined by Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Well, 303 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.879 go to our first call. We'll go to VIP member Scott, 304 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:29.799 and following him will be John and Matt. Let's click 305 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.360 on the switchboard here to Scott. Welcome to the show. Uh, 306 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.120 let's know what city you're calling from and what you 307 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.000 want to talk about today. 308 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.039 Hey wait, hey, Jason, it's Scott from James Berg, New Jersey. 309 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:41.559 VIP member. How are you today? 310 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:44.159 Doing great? Thanks for thanks for being a VIP member 311 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:45.960 first and foremost, and for calling today. 312 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.000 Of course, guys i've called in the past. When first, 313 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.799 before I get going, Jason, I want to say it's 314 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.519 pretty cool hearing you on the ten year audio flashbacks 315 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.320 with the VIPA. It's been interesting hearing your some world 316 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.320 reports and stuff be interesting and pretty cool. 317 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.159 One of these days I have to actually go back 318 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:04.799 and listen to that. I cringe when I see them 319 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.360 because I'm always afraid of what I said. I still 320 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:09.360 haven't been able to bring myself to push play, but 321 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.320 one of these days I will. 322 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:13.120 But thank you well you you and Steve Austin alike. 323 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:14.440 He's like I did ever go back and listen to 324 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:18.440 my own podcasts. Although Jason, you were ten years ago 325 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.519 you were ripping on John Cena for a poopy joke 326 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:22.320 that we had completely forgotten all of us. I think 327 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.679 I had completely forgotten about so that you got that 328 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.960 on your going for you another one there was There 329 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:29.480 was actually at least a second time he did introduce 330 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.279 the word poopy and it was just it was a 331 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.639 review of SmackDown. It was just awful. This is for 332 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.399 those who don't know. When Jason was working for the Torch, 333 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.039 he did audio shows back in the day and we 334 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.559 put up via vintage VIP audio shows from ten years 335 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.519 ago throughout the week, and some of Jason's reviews are there, 336 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:47.559 and yeah, yeah you were. You were all over John 337 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.759 Cena for poopy Just like, why would he say that word? 338 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.080 This is so lame, it's it's going to hurt his growth. 339 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.159 It's been a broken record with him for ten years since. 340 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:55.279 Wow. 341 00:15:55.720 --> 00:16:01.000 I know, Well, go ahead, Scott, Yeah. 342 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.399 Okay, one of the comment and then I have a question. 343 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.639 First is my comment. Guys, I've called before and talked 344 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.519 about the network with some of the struggles, and we 345 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.480 talked about the ideas and Wade Jason. I'm not I 346 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.720 want to get my hopes up. I don't want to 347 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:13.720 get my hopes up, but I really feel hopefully it 348 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.799 looks like they're starting to do some interesting things. I 349 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.200 enjoyed the Shield the Shield documentary last week on the 350 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.679 network and the Monday Night wars War thing on Friday night. 351 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:27.879 And I liked the idea of the nitros, like you 352 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.159 were talking about Waite on the hotline this morning, the 353 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.559 nitros one hundred hours of Nitro coming next week, and 354 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.879 with the Attitude hour week, it looks like, hopefully from 355 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.200 the fall, they're trying to make some good moves, and 356 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.480 I wanted to hear what you guys thought about that first. 357 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:45.399 There's a lot of stuff there out in Jason. I 358 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:47.559 think they maybe they've been saving it up for the 359 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.519 renewal time, you know, when a lot of the six 360 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.320 month deals were coming up. We got Nitro coming back. 361 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.919 We just got an email today from WWE touting the 362 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.960 Monday Night War series they're pushing. But it'll be airing 363 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:04.000 the Monday Net wore tonight, by the way, at nine 364 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.920 to eighth Central, and it's a twenty episode original series 365 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:12.400 documenting the epic television ratings battle. That's going to be fun. Jason, 366 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:16.400 you were talking over the weekend about the on dot net. 367 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.079 I guess it was ondott net weekly about the Shield 368 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.759 documentary on the network. I mean, they really have been 369 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:27.200 adding some content, and I think, you know, just in time. 370 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.119 It's almost like they almost intentionally kind of went soft 371 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:31.599 in the summer to kind of save it up for 372 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.880 late Aufust early September. 373 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.559 Yeah, I mean, the strategy makes sense. I still there's 374 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:40.079 not nearly enough now, but at least they're starting to 375 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.480 add some of the things that in some cases people 376 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.319 would convince themselves. They were promised like those old nitros, 377 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.440 and I mean it was always thrown out there that 378 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.880 it was going to be eventually those would be part 379 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:51.599 of it. But I think some people just kind of 380 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.880 convince themselves every raw and every Nitro was going to 381 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.880 be there as soon as the thing launched. But they 382 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.079 took a different approach, and yeah, it looks like they're 383 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:00.839 starting to do a little bit more with it. I 384 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.039 just hope that it's going to be a little more 385 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.599 staggered now with different launch points, with the Europe still 386 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.880 coming on board, because I don't want to feel like, Okay, 387 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.319 nothing is going to happen for six months and then 388 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:13.880 all of a sudden they'll drop new stuff on it. 389 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.960 So at least this way, with Europe coming in a 390 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.960 little I guess the United Kingdom coming in a little 391 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.519 bit late, that should help with that a little bit, 392 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:23.920 I would think, because they're going to still want to 393 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.319 make a push to try to keep those subscribers as well. 394 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.880 Yeah, I'm excited about the content they're adding and instead 395 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.039 of thinking, well, you know, what should I watch from 396 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:36.359 the archives kind of randomly, there's now more content there 397 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.160 when I turn it on that I'm like, hey, this 398 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.440 is new, this is worth watching and talking about and 399 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.480 reviewing on the torch. So that's a positive. And I 400 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.880 mean the nine nine nine thing to Jason, they cut 401 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:48.480 back on that. I wish they had in because you know, 402 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.000 my whole three through three VIP special strategies built around 403 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.079 playing off the obnoxiousness of nine nine nine. But if 404 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.400 they're not really obnoxious, then how can I be obnoxious? Ironically? 405 00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.680 Then I'm just going to be obnoxious without the irony 406 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:00.799 And that's well. 407 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:02.559 You could have T shirts made and give them the 408 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.680 people in the front row that it looks like they did. 409 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:10.400 Yes, that is true. Yes, it's amazing. They're selling nine 410 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.559 ninety nine T shirts. So I'd like to know if 411 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:13.400 anybody do. 412 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:14.960 You think there are they actually do we know they're 413 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.000 selling them? I mean, are people actually buying these or 414 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:18.680 is just just hey, where are this? You're gonna be 415 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:19.160 on camera? 416 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:25.079 You know what? I'm not sure. Let's see WWE shop zone. 417 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.160 They sell everything else. I guess it wouldn't shock me. 418 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.640 Yeah, so let's let's see if there's a nine nine 419 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.759 nine T shirt featured right up front. Okay, at least 420 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:32.599 it's not on the. 421 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:37.319 Front page ninety nine, I'm guessing is how it's gonna go. 422 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.519 Yep. Okay, so we got authentic T shirts. Let's go 423 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:42.200 to the authentic T shirts category. Ooh, bad news is 424 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.079 the first one. I guess they do this alphabetically. I 425 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.960 don't look at this page very often. Sammy Zan T 426 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.279 shirt is right there stealing the show no sign of 427 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.680 nine nine to nine As I scroll down though, Op, 428 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.680 we got three pages of T shirts. Well, I'll keep 429 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:59.920 scrolling through and see believe Yeah, Hulk rules. 430 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.119 Are you gonna do live commentary on all three pages? 431 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.799 Yeah? I am, because I'm awesome. I'm almost done here. 432 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:09.440 I'm there's Danny Bryant, Ultimate Warrior, Goldust and Kobe Rhads, 433 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.920 Oh my god. And yes, yes that's No. Nine nine nine. 434 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.079 So they're not for sale on shops owned as best 435 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.119 I can tell right now. So that was that. By 436 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.440 the way, that was what everybody got at Glens Into 437 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.279 is live investigative reporting right there, live vestcative reporting. I 438 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.039 was spout here a lot. That's why we are the 439 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.960 live cast but not the pre tape cast, because he 440 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:34.319 just right that live experience anyway, I you know, that's 441 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:35.839 just derailed everything. I don't even know we're talking about 442 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:38.000 oh yeah, nine nine nine, And then Networked they were 443 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.480 less obnoxious about pushing nine nine nine. It's kind of 444 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.759 become JBL's thing other than yeah, the merchandise and signs 445 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:44.240 in the crowd. 446 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:46.920 Do they want us to forget about the net Well, 447 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.960 I mean, I guess not completely. For gigs, they're pushing 448 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.799 all the new content, but I don't know if they 449 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.519 want to push nine to ninety nine right now, because 450 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.359 I know we've been looking at it, like, you know, 451 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.599 August twenty fourth was kind of D day, but I 452 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.079 looked at my account just to make sure it was 453 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.880 going to roll over, and for me, it's September third, 454 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.119 and I signed up on day one and I did 455 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:06.839 I must have taken the free preview, but somehow they 456 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.480 I think they added a little bit of time to 457 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:10.640 it on top of that. Yeah, I don't know if 458 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.119 they just figured, well, we gave some people five free days, 459 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.680 so we're gonna give everybody five free days, because you know, 460 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:17.440 there's obnoxious people out there who are like. 461 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.640 Wait a second, somebody else got five three days. I 462 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.680 want five three days. So I shouldn't call them anox. 463 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:24.440 It's just you know, frugal people who want to be 464 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:28.519 treated fairly all right anyway, take a pick, Yeah, whiners, 465 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.519 you know, And in a way it's D Day, But 466 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.720 I mean, ww ME never gave the impression that the 467 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.279 big sign up day was a first day they won 468 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.519 on sale. I think I think the big sign up 469 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.400 day was probably five days before Mania and three days 470 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.440 after Mania, and so I think we're probably at a 471 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.000 position where we're gonna be looking at six weeks of 472 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.359 D days because there's gonna there was a stretch of 473 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.599 time where the first six hundred fifty some thousand subscribers 474 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.559 were over a six week period, and I think they 475 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.240 were pretty spread out. So the D Day for them 476 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.640 is more like a D six weeks. It doesn't have 477 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:03.920 quite the ring to it. But yeah, I mean the 478 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:05.440 Nitral thing I think is big, and I think a 479 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.680 lot of people are going to really enjoy reliving Nitro 480 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.200 and the Moday Night Wars series is a good companionship 481 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.400 and adding some more raw attitude eras shows to it 482 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.680 is good. You know, this would be a good time 483 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.359 to maybe call it Steve Boston and see if he can, 484 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.079 you know, hype the network a little bit for you. 485 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.039 But he's busy with a lot of other things, and 486 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:22.880 you can find out what those things are by listening 487 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:24.759 to my interview is Steve Boston for over two hours 488 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.319 on Friday's webcast on the People with You Torch live 489 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.039 cast feed. All right, let's go back to Scott s 490 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.119 if he has anything else you wants to add. Scott 491 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:31.799 anything else? 492 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.160 Oh yeah, guys, then thanks very much. And I'm gonna 493 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:36.880 ask you, guys, while I have the two of you 494 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.039 listening to the ten years ago audio, this question. I've 495 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.440 always WANDEREDWSFL at the time. I always thought that they 496 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:50.160 pushed the turn of Randy Orton ten years ago with Evolution, 497 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.680 and I want to know, was there any reason why 498 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.279 they did that whole thing? They gave him a one 499 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.839 month title reign and then that was it with that annual, 500 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.759 because I remember when the demise of Evolution, like I remember, 501 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.200 I thought that Orton was at least like looking back 502 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:07.759 at some of the old newsletters, lad, yeah, you could 503 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.000 see that the original plan was to hold out to 504 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.839 do Orton versus Triple eighth ch at WrestleMania twenty one, 505 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:17.759 and I always wondered why they, you know, rushed to 506 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.920 it and I know Batista got, you know, looking now 507 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.599 looking like a comparison to twenty fourteen, you would hope 508 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.960 that Roman reigns can organically get the kind of crowd 509 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:32.799 response that Batista got, that that you know Rode from 510 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:36.799 Survivor series till about you know till WrestleMania where he 511 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.799 wanted the belt from helmstuff from Triple H. But you know, 512 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:41.880 why did they do it the way they did and 513 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.920 why was Orton only getting that one month rain. I 514 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.240 will be listening to your response, guys. I enjoy all 515 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.839 your works. Thank you for everything. Keep up the great work. 516 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:50.640 And wait, I'm really looking forward to Nick Carr. 517 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.400 Thank you, Scott. Sorry about that. I I prematurely cut 518 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.359 you off what he was saying, I'm looking forward to mccarr. So, Scott, 519 00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:59.319 thank you for v if you membership again. And ten 520 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.440 year old question, Jason Randy aren't ten years ago. I 521 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:05.319 think they kind of rushed to give Hi the belt 522 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:07.039 because they were a mattat rock Lesner and they wanted 523 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:10.000 Randy to be a younger champion than Brock. I'm not 524 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.799 sure they held the exact same version of the world title, 525 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:13.759 but still Randy gets the claim of being the youngest 526 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:15.960 world champion ever, and I know my thought at the 527 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.200 time was this seems a little premature. We're all high 528 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.960 on Randy in a lot of ways, but giving him 529 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.880 the world title at times felt like they just did 530 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.720 it just despite lesnar So Lesnard didn't hold that record anymore, 531 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.480 but they weren't necessarily long term committed to him. And 532 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.960 then Randy has had issues all along with being having 533 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.799 issues with authority going back. I don't know all the 534 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.920 details of his military situation, but he's got a rep 535 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.160 for kind of having issues with authority. Sometimes it's good 536 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.400 because he's outspoken in a way that I think the 537 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.720 wrestling industry needs more of. Booker T and I talked 538 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:49.240 about that on the Live cast a month or so 539 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:51.519 back when he was a guest, how Booker was kind 540 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:52.759 of the guy who would always peak up in the 541 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:54.920 locker room and people would look to him when there 542 00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:56.920 was a controversial issue and see what he was going 543 00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.359 to say to kind of shake things up. And I 544 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:03.079 hear through the grape vine a lot that Randy expresses 545 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.359 himself to at least a certain inner circle of people, 546 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.119 his frustrations with how things go sometimes. And then there's 547 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.440 maturity issues, especially ten years ago with Randy and uttering 548 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.720 stuff that upset management, that caused him to lose faith 549 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.440 that he would be the model citizen and a model 550 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.920 employed that John Cena began to emerge as being So 551 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.039 I don't have a specific memory, Jason. Do you of 552 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:30.240 that timeline though, and that exact situation with Orton? 553 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.440 I don't recall, if memory serves, I think it was. 554 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.039 It did feel it felt premature to put the title 555 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.839 on Orton and premature to take the title off Orton. 556 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:41.839 And I think a lot of people were looking at 557 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.160 as well. Triple H got it right. It was at 558 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:46.839 one of the deals where everyone was kind of pointing 559 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:50.880 fingers at Triple H and him dominating everything at that time. 560 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:53.480 The timeline is right, sure, yeah, yeah. 561 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.079 And I mean if that's I don't know if it 562 00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.720 was something behind the scene, I don't believe there was. 563 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:00.839 I think they just thought they could they could break 564 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.119 Orton away and he'd be this hot baby face and 565 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.000 Chase Mote or something. But it really other. Everyone remembers 566 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.759 the thumbs down when Batista h when when Evolution turned 567 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.480 on him. But aside from that, I mean, I it 568 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:17.480 must not have gone well because I have a very 569 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:19.200 faint recollection of all of this. 570 00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:22.319 Yeah, yeah, but I think in a general sense, I 571 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.240 think we kind of covered the you know, the politics 572 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.640 and the disappointments at times with Orton that made them 573 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.519 a little hesitant to just go all the way right 574 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:33.119 with them on top. 575 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:38.839 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 576 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.559 Jason Powell host him the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 577 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.119 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for 578 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.359 me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along 579 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.319 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 580 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.680 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 581 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.400 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 582 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.599 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 583 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:10.000 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 584 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.519 All right, let's let's keep her on the calls here 585 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.799 the BP Express line in particular, and we'll go next 586 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:19.079 to VIP member John and Erico three three six, John Knock, 587 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:20.640 Let's know what city you're calling from and what you 588 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:21.519 want to talk about today. 589 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.359 Hey Wade, Hey Jason, this is John Collin from Greensboro, 590 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:26.200 North Carolina. 591 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.279 Hey, John, have you bumped into Bruce Mitchell at all recently? 592 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.119 Well, you know, I work at UNC Greensboro and I 593 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.200 have seen him walking around campus here and there, but 594 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.480 I haven't bumped into him in person for a while. 595 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.519 So yeah, one day he takes his walkst. 596 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.160 Got a couple of quick comments and then a question 597 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.880 for you both. I wanted to give the let you 598 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.160 guys know the reason why I am not subscribing to 599 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.640 the ww network, and I thought, I don't know if 600 00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.839 others feel the same way, but you've talked a little 601 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.759 bit in the past about the lack of programming and 602 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.279 the original programming that I want to watch. It's more 603 00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.880 a vintage wrestling that I'm interested in seeing, and I 604 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:08.319 would definitely be in favor of subscribing if they had, 605 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:11.640 perhaps like a show that would feature a certain feud 606 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.319 from different territories where I could catch up and see 607 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.359 the promos and the matches. Every territory has memorable feuds, 608 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.759 and some of them I never got to see. I 609 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:22.920 never got to watch the AWA, never got to watch 610 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:24.759 Mid South, and those are things that I would love 611 00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.079 to see if they had a program, But they don't 612 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:30.279 really monetize or show us those old territory tapes yet 613 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:32.680 and when they do, then perhaps I'll become a customer. 614 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.279 But that's one thing, even as a longtime wrestling fan, 615 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:37.400 that's what I want to see and they're not showing it, 616 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.559 so I'm not going to be, as of yet a subscriber. 617 00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.319 So I just thought that was a point where they 618 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.880 haven't heard me in the live past before. 619 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.000 No, I think it's great that you say that. I 620 00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:50.480 hope it's heard, because you know, there's that there's the 621 00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.759 subscribers who are going to join up because they want 622 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.400 the pay per views and WWE, and they're technologically savvy 623 00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:59.559 and ready to take on the latest technology, and that's 624 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.880 the the big chunk of subscribers are going to get 625 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:04.200 up front. But there's this long tail, you know, they 626 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.359 call it the long tail in marketing and that kind 627 00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:13.519 of thing where there's a people who are not part 628 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.319 of that initial group, but they need a lot of 629 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:19.799 little things to get them excited about the product. And 630 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.839 so there's gonna be like this long there's gonna be 631 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.680 a lot of niches basically, and you're one of the 632 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.039 niche people WWE. It seems Jason will throw to you 633 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.279 on this it seems like they've not disregarded the niche people, 634 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.720 but they haven't worked, I think, as hard as it's 635 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:39.079 called for in order to make the niche people feel 636 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:45.079 like what they want is a priority for WWE. It's 637 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.039 like WWE wants the first eighty percent and they don't 638 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.079 want to work particularly hard to get the other group. 639 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.039 And maybe they think because they've maybe they think they've 640 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.640 gotten ninety nine percent already, Jason, and it's not worth 641 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.000 the effort. But I think maybe the long tail represents 642 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.680 it's another forty percent of growth, But it doesn't come 643 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:04.279 just as easy as flip in a switch and saying, 644 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:06.000 watch our new pay per views. 645 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.880 Right, I don't know what the hold up is and 646 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.519 putting up some of the archive content other than you know, 647 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:14.200 certain things like nitro raw. If it really was the 648 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.519 strategy to wait until you know, the six month period, 649 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.519 that that makes sense. But some of the older stuff, 650 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:22.079 you know, they're not going to like have some big 651 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.319 promotional package wrapped around all the AWA content now available. 652 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:28.200 They'll just be kind of mentioned in passing along with 653 00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:30.279 something else they're doing that's going to that's going to 654 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.039 appeal to a bigger audience. So why not get that 655 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.279 material out there if if you're hoping for them to 656 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:40.279 put kind of a modern spin on things, take a 657 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.759 WrestleMania rewind approach to something from an old territory that 658 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:46.839 that might be wishful thinking. I mean, I would enjoy 659 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.640 it too, but I think there's probably a smaller audience. 660 00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:51.720 I mean, maybe you can reach out to some fans 661 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.680 that way and get them to start checking out some 662 00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.480 of the older content. I don't know that they're going 663 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.440 to see it as as time and money well spent 664 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:00.519 to start repackaging some of the I don't like to 665 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.279 take something from the UWF and turning it turn it 666 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.839 into like a one hour, one hour piece of content 667 00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:09.359 with like comments from Jim Ross and Bill Watson, that 668 00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:10.839 kind of thing. I just don't know that we'll get 669 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.599 that ever, but at least get that, at least get 670 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.279 that the old television shows out there. There's no reason, 671 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.000 in my opinion, for the whole But I don't know 672 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:18.720 what they're waiting for. 673 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.880 I mean, I've heard that it's tougher. It's tougher, more 674 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:25.240 expensive and more time consuming than we realized to take 675 00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.839 this old footage and get it ready to air. And 676 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:31.200 screen it to make sure that you know that the 677 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.240 content is acceptable, the quality of the the quality of 678 00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:36.880 the content is what it needs to be in terms 679 00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:40.880 of picture quality and sound and all that. I if 680 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.880 people got their hopes stuff that they were going to get, 681 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:45.880 you know, a wrap around every episode of Mid South. 682 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.720 I mean, yeah, that those expectations are too high, especially 683 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.839 given the current subscriber levels, but I do think that 684 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.039 they could have done more, if nothing else, just to 685 00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:01.839 communicate to people subscribers somehow, some way that there is 686 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.000 a that there's going to be a method to this 687 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.680 and that they will be catering to people who do 688 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.240 want to see that history and are interested in that. 689 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:11.119 And I just think they've left people kind of not 690 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:15.440 sure when that's going to happen. There's some people want 691 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.960 something so niche, so specialized that they just have to 692 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.359 kind of be patient in WWE's deciding they're going to 693 00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.839 go after the bigger audience first and work their way 694 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.759 to the niche audience. And if that's the case, well 695 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.119 then it's going to be a slower climb. But eventually 696 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:29.519 they're going to get the people who are part of 697 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:32.799 that long tail with niche desires eventually they'll get them 698 00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:34.519 on board, and in a way, it might be good 699 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.279 news for WWE that there's still people out there like you, John, 700 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.960 who are waiting and will subscribe because they've got all 701 00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:44.559 they can handle right now. They feel they're doing things 702 00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.279 in the right order of priority, and it's just going 703 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:48.640 to take them a little time to get to the 704 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:52.000 long tail content instead of the big stuff that's going 705 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.599 to get you one hundreds of thousands of people right 706 00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:54.079 out of the gate. 707 00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:57.920 Sure, and that would be happy simply with being able 708 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:00.799 to watch the shows. Yeah, an order like Hey Camp. 709 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.880 With Netflix, I can watch a show from season one, 710 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.839 episode one, or whatever they have rights to and then 711 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.920 watch them in order. If I could watch AWA in order, 712 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.640 you're gonna because I got to watch a wa on ESPN, 713 00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:13.279 So that tells you, you know, I didn't see the 714 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.240 good stuff, and I'd love to just see them in 715 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:17.200 the original package. I don't need to wrap a rounds, 716 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.279 I don't need a commentary, although that would be fun, 717 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.000 but just putting him out there would be something that 718 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.920 I would be interested in and I would maybe spend 719 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.400 the money at that point. But until then, way do 720 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.319 you get my money for a VIP members. 721 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:28.640 So thank you, John, I appreciate it. 722 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.799 Hi, You're welcome. I have one other quick comment and 723 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:33.640 in a question that I can take off the air, 724 00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:37.039 but I just wanted to say that at first I 725 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:41.200 didn't really care for Bo Dallas and but I watched 726 00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.240 him as many weeks ago now, but he rested I 727 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.240 think it was Xavier Woods, and he won the match, 728 00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:47.680 and he got back in the ring and consoled him 729 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:49.039 and told him that he was going to be a 730 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.519 winner someday soon, and that to me was just so 731 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:54.880 hilarious and that really, to me told the story of 732 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:56.720 the character better than anything he had done so far. 733 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:58.720 And since that time, I'm a fan of the Bo 734 00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.160 Dallas characters. So hopefully get continue to get some more airtime. 735 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.079 But my question is, as you can tell, I'm a 736 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:07.599 big fan of the old time territory wrestling what I 737 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.719 grew up watching, and there are some things that you 738 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.440 and Jason will often talk about that are missing now 739 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.760 that maybe could be brought back, and I just wanted 740 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.320 to bring up for them and see if you could 741 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.119 only pick one, if you were in charge and you 742 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.719 could make one happen, what would it be? And the 743 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:24.039 things that I wrote down, were you know more use 744 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.280 of managers, although that's happening a little bit. The after 745 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.480 match interview oftentimes in the territory shows the person win 746 00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:32.760 the match, come down, talk to Gordon Soli or Bob 747 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.000 Kyle or someone. But after the match. In other words, 748 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.760 winning the match was your key to an interview, which 749 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.199 I thought was always interesting. Time limits on the matches, 750 00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:42.800 and also squash matches, and just so you know, my 751 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.360 pick would be squash matches. But i'll take your answer Offty. 752 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.599 I appreciate everything you guys do. I love the show. 753 00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:51.679 Thanks a lot, Thank you very much. John, really appreciate it. Jason, 754 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.760 I'll let you start managers, postmatch interviews, time limits on 755 00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:57.239 matches or squash matches. 756 00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.360 I think I know where you're going to go with this, 757 00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:02.920 and I lean that way as well. But it needs 758 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.400 with squash matches, it would need to be limited. But 759 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.679 I think there's certainly room for them. But I'll say 760 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.920 managers just because so I don't just steal your thunder 761 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.960 on this one. You know, I mean, Paul Haman's doing 762 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.480 a great job. Not everyone can be Paul Hamon, but 763 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.519 still I think there are various examples of wrestlers who 764 00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:26.159 would benefit from having a mouthpiece, and not just in WWE, 765 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.760 I mean T and A. Maybe it might just be 766 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:30.920 kind of the feeling is that they don't have a 767 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:32.519 lot of money to spend and they're not going to 768 00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.239 spend it on mouthpieces right now. But I think they 769 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.400 would really benefit. I think if they brought in the 770 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:43.280 right manager or managers. Ideally, there are guys that really 771 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.199 struggle on the mic in that company that I think 772 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.079 would be over so much more if they had someone 773 00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.280 else doing the talking for them. So I'm a big 774 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:50.480 believer in managers. 775 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.159 Yeah, and you know what, I'm god postmatch interviews is 776 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.079 right there. I know. Prediction is I'm going to say 777 00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.760 squash matches because I think they're a real valuable tool. 778 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.960 For reasons I've explained. It goes against kind of conventionalism. 779 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.199 Who's gonna watch the squash match this era? And I've 780 00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:06.960 explained that many many times, so I won't now, but 781 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.719 I strongly believe they're good. There's something that could be reintroduced, 782 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:13.079 and I think people would actually enjoy them. I think 783 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.599 if if WWE Network were to put Superstars back on 784 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:20.239 the air, the nineteen eighty Superstars show or the AWA 785 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:22.719 shows back when it was just squash match interview squash 786 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:25.519 match interview. I think people who never really experienced it 787 00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.880 in a way that in a setting where it was 788 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.719 really well featured would gain an appreciation for it, you know, 789 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.920 just having a focus on one guy, his ring entrance, 790 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.760 his key moves, his finisher, and the jobbers who are 791 00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.679 just these you know, pathetic whimps of people taking these 792 00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:42.920 great bumps and selling the hell out of these signature spots. 793 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.039 It's part of the formula that I think makes pro 794 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.840 wrestling work, which is building anticipation for guys who win 795 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:50.440 squash matches finally facing each other. I get the realities 796 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:51.920 of the different era we're in, but I think there's 797 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.760 a way to make it work. But I love postmatch 798 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:55.800 interviews and in WWE does it now, and then I 799 00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.719 wish they did it more. I think it's good to 800 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.800 ask wrestlers to be in character and in the moment 801 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:03.519 after they win a match or peck get a reaction 802 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.000 sometimes after they lose, because I think it challenges them 803 00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:10.039 to break from script and not be superscripted when they 804 00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:13.599 talk and just react as if they're not just going 805 00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:15.280 through the motions of something they were told to do, 806 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:18.239 but are kind of believing their own their own act, 807 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.239 and they feel like what they did really was a 808 00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.400 loss or really was a win. I think a big 809 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:24.440 part of what sells wrestling is the thrill of victory 810 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.159 and the agony of defeat, and sometimes that is missing. 811 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:30.400 So all your suggestions are good. I guess time Lewis 812 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.559 on matches would be my least the fourth on the list. 813 00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.320 But post match interviews, managers and squashes I think would 814 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.159 all be good things to add back to the mix. 815 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.079 All right, let's go next here on PW Torch Live 816 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.039 cast to Matt VIP member Matt, thanks for colin. Let 817 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:46.639 us know the city or Collins from today and what 818 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:50.880 you want to talk about, Matt, Go ahead, Matt. I 819 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.519 didn't go to Matt already, did I? 820 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:53.559 No? 821 00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:56.800 I don't think so, because it's Scott, Scott and John. 822 00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.360 So all right, let me try one more time here, Matt. 823 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:00.840 Are you there? 824 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.440 I'm on, Matt, put them put the controller down. I 825 00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.800 know it's Madden Day, but talk to us. 826 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.239 What is Madden Day? I know, but go ahead, Jason. 827 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.760 It is the release of the annual Madden Football Game 828 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.360 from EA. Sports, and I personally have to hold out 829 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.800 because I have my last fantasy draft on Saturday and 830 00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:21.679 it's my biggest one and if I go get Madden today, 831 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:23.760 there's no way I'm going to get any kind of 832 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.800 studying done for my draft. So Sunday is Madden Day 833 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.039 for me. 834 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.039 All right, very good. By the way, do you have 835 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:33.159 a Super Bowl winner? Pick Jason? You want to go 836 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:34.360 on record yet? 837 00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:37.480 Ask me next week. You know what, I've been so 838 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:41.639 caught up in fantasy i haven't really thought about real football. 839 00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:46.039 That is a testament against fantasy football in a way 840 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.159 that it's you are an NFL fan who has been 841 00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.239 too busy thinking about one aspect of the sport to 842 00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.280 think about what really the sport is all about. 843 00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:56.199 Yeah it is, But you know what, I think the 844 00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:59.039 NFL will take that because it's people like me who 845 00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:01.840 will suffer through like a Browns and Jaguars game if 846 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.119 there's some fantasy interest, and you're right, non fantasy owners 847 00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:06.800 will do I'm not watching that nonsense. 848 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.840 No, No, you're totally right. I'm just giving you a 849 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:10.280 hard time, but it is. It is kind of funny 850 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:12.400 where the fans have kind of been away taken the 851 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.199 game and added over the last you know, however, many 852 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.800 years now, ten fifteen years when it got really really popular, 853 00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.159 they've added this whole other dimension to the game, and 854 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.519 it doesn't have to replace and enjoying the games. It 855 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:25.239 might delay you studying the actual teams instead of the 856 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:27.480 fantasy teams, but in the end you're gonna be watching 857 00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:29.920 more games because of it. So I mean, that's absolutely good. 858 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:31.760 Definitely yeah. 859 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.559 All right, let's let's go ahead and shift Chase into 860 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.920 your your website and your membership and let people know 861 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.719 why they should visit your website and why they should 862 00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:42.239 become members. 863 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:44.039 Absolutely on the site right now. 864 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.880 Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next 865 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:50.519 level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this the 866 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:53.559 Waight Keller Prosing Podcast, Weaightkeller Prosing Post show, and the 867 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:57.320 PW Torch daily casts on our PW Torch VIP podcast 868 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.360 feed with ads and plugs removed from the show for 869 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:04.039 a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP exclusive 870 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.320 shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, 871 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.480 Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin, 872 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:11.880 signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership. 873 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.599 So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy 874 00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.760 all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad 875 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:22.559 free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. 876 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.519 Excellent. Let's go back to our discussion here on raw 877 00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.800 and phone calls and all that good stuff. Just a 878 00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:37.400 reminder Kamala tomorrow mickcarsh on Thursday. So keep listening every 879 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.440 day to the p W Torch livecast, subscribing iTunes or 880 00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.960 on your Android device or your iPhone and show some 881 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.920 support for us. If you have a moment, you can 882 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.639 go to iTunes and give us a five star rating 883 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.519 and a nice review for what we do here. It 884 00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.480 does help increase the rankings. We've been around so long 885 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:57.119 as a show that we have a lot of listeners 886 00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.639 maybe three four years ago reviewed things at iTunes. But 887 00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:01.719 it can go when and if you're a newer listener 888 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:03.440 or you just never got around to it'd be great 889 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.119 if you did that. It does. It does actually help 890 00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.840 our exposure and help us grow when when you take 891 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.400 time to do that. The iTunes formula recognizes when when 892 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:17.000 we get good ratings and additional reviews. All right, let's 893 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:18.880 let's shift gears now back to the full min So 894 00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:20.800 let's see what Eric codes six to six one has 895 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:22.519 in store for us. Six six one. I don't think 896 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.239 i've seen this aer code before. State your name in 897 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:25.199 the city you're calling from. 898 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.559 Hey, it's Dave from Columbus. 899 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:30.599 Hey, Dave, thanks for Colin. What have you got for 900 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:31.039 us today? 901 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:32.559 Yeah? 902 00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:36.199 Hey, how was reading back in some more and some 903 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:41.280 torches and this one? You said, the person who changed 904 00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:45.920 the Wikipedia page on the Chrispin Wah thing. You said 905 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.199 it was most likely someone who who had a connection 906 00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:54.719 to a WWE employee privy to early info that pointed 907 00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.119 to the direction of the tragedy that might have involved 908 00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.199 Nancy's death. Then you go on to imply more or 909 00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:04.159 that since this person was known for vandalizing web pages, 910 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:09.320 he also fixed Chavo Guerrero's web page with which had 911 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.559 a bunch of Slanders stuff on it. So you even 912 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.320 implied more. You said it's one in a hundred that 913 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:18.639 it's a coincidence. So you agreed with me last time 914 00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.000 I called. Even in your newsletter you agreed with me. 915 00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:23.599 But then when I called last time, you were telling 916 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.639 me it was conspiracy theories. You brought up the moon landing, 917 00:42:26.679 --> 00:42:29.239 you brought up JFK, and then you lied and said 918 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.559 it didn't even happen, And here you are agreeing with me. 919 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:33.199 You're caught. 920 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.239 Go ahead, replied, all right, thanks, Dave. I appreciate your 921 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:42.119 calling the show again. I don't I don't even know 922 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:47.360 what Jason you want anything. No, go ahead with I Honestly, 923 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.480 I don't even I don't even know what Dave is asking. 924 00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.639 He calls up angry time every every once in a while, 925 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:56.159 and I'm glad he's reading back issues of The Torch, 926 00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:58.039 I guess, and reading up on the Benwa situation. 927 00:42:58.280 --> 00:42:59.639 Way he took you up on that because you know 928 00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:01.639 you did tell him, you know, hey, yeah, well you 929 00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.440 can discuss this once you've gone back and read what 930 00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:06.280 was written at that time. So I'll give him credit 931 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:06.480 for that. 932 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.400 Yeah, I give Dave credit for that, I guess, Dave. 933 00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.119 I'm just I'm not quite sure what your specific question 934 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:16.199 for me is or what you think that I owe 935 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.440 you in terms of a further explanation. You've from the beginning, 936 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:21.719 it seems like you've got something in your mind that 937 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:25.239 you think has been underreported or that you think has 938 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:28.559 been through some motivation that I don't understand, covered up 939 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:32.559 or forgotten about. So yeah, let me know what. 940 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:34.760 Maybe if you would mute me, we could talk about it. 941 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.960 You're not mute to Dave, So I just threw back 942 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.079 to you after Jason and I talked. But honestly, it's 943 00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.159 that kind of approach that just I don't have interest 944 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.239 in talking to you. I'm sorry, We'll just move on. 945 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.000 Erico do two oh two. Welcome to the show. Please 946 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.880 state your name and where you're calling from. 947 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:52.920 Hey, how's it going on? 948 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:53.320 Brothers? 949 00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:54.880 This is Anthony from Washington, DC. 950 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:58.480 Anthony, you go. You talk about long time listeners, you 951 00:43:58.559 --> 00:43:59.920 are one of them. Thanks for calling back. 952 00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:04.519 Not a problem. So I'm looking at an article of Day. 953 00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:08.559 I'm sorry the source of the article, but they're basically 954 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:14.039 comparing how today's TV watcher likes to use the DVR 955 00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.400 you know system a lot, and they you know, I'm 956 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:18.800 down from drama. 957 00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.000 The sports and you know, oh yeah, it's. 958 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.039 The sports thing. And they was talking about how like 959 00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:26.639 it's been like an uptake you people like you know, 960 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.119 DVR and like we wrestling, it's like up like somewhere 961 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.920 like around seven or eight percent. So I was wondering 962 00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:36.199 how much does that play the role into the to 963 00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:40.000 the network itself and also the TV deal that the 964 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:41.159 devil has right now? 965 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.280 Uh, Jason, I saw that. I saw a chart that represented, 966 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.199 you know, sports is like a last bashood of people 967 00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.840 watching live. We're just talking about fantasy football being a 968 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.079 big deal, Anthony, don't be offended. I will be putting 969 00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:54.639 you on whole briefly. Well, Jason, then I talked to 970 00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:58.880 avoid background noise. I do that with just about a recaller, Jason. 971 00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.280 Fantasy football is and sports in general, one of the 972 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.320 reasons that people watch the NFL live, and that means 973 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.679 fitting through commercials. WWE has tried a lot of different 974 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:11.199 things to try to be live programming, you know, or 975 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.119 come across with live programming. It didn't result in a 976 00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:16.519 big the big uptick or as big of an uptick 977 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:20.000 in TV rights fees as they wanted. But we are, 978 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.440 I mean, we are in a changing landscape in WWB 979 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.599 network with programming on demand where you can watch it 980 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:27.440 live or on delay, does seem to be the formula 981 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.559 for the future. And pro wrestling is kind of in 982 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.280 this middle zone of you need to watch it live, 983 00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.719 but you could also get away with watching it on delay. 984 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.199 Well, and that's I think that's one of the big 985 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.920 issues with the three hour format. I mean, SmackDown is 986 00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:42.760 definitely not muscy live material. 987 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:44.400 Raw it. 988 00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:47.639 There's times when it feels like it, you know, to 989 00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:49.440 a certain audience. I'm sure there are some people that 990 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:52.679 consider themselves diehard fans that just record the show every week, 991 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:54.840 even if it is two hours. But by and large, 992 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.039 I think when it's three hours, you just make it 993 00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:00.559 easier for people to make the decision to go ahead, 994 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.920 hit the DVR, start watching it an hour in even skipboard, 995 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:06.519 you know, fast forward through some of the stuff you 996 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:08.079 don't want to see, or even the next day where 997 00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:10.159 you just kind of cherry pick, Okay, I read this 998 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.719 was good whatever. So I mean it's, yeah, it's live, 999 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:16.199 but I think they need to do more just that. 1000 00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.199 When the product is clicking, I think then it feels 1001 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.760 like it's must see live material. When it's a show 1002 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:23.719 like Last Night, I mean, you never know what you're 1003 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:26.280 gonna get. But still it's just when they're when there's 1004 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:28.000 shows like that, if you're kind of in a slump, 1005 00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:29.559 then I think for a lot of people they just 1006 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.599 start to feel like, eh, I can catch this on 1007 00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:33.360 the DVR and we'll probably see a lot of that 1008 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:34.760 coming up now with football season. 1009 00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:38.239 Yes, oh definitely, I mean that's it's a great thing. 1010 00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:39.760 I mean, we grew up without that, Jason, you had 1011 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:41.119 to kind of pick and choose or try to figure 1012 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:42.760 out how to get your VDR hooked up to record 1013 00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:44.760 one thing to watch another. And it's a it's a 1014 00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.920 better era now, Anthony, do you want to follow up 1015 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:49.920 on that or ask any kind of specific questions? 1016 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.840 Yeah, on one more thing about last night's show, I 1017 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.239 it was kind of ironic to see Hawk Cogan out there, 1018 00:46:58.360 --> 00:46:59.719 and you know it's not saying it. The reason that 1019 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.679 is ironic because if you look at that must control 1020 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.920 as the fact that they does Johnson have a similar 1021 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.719 type of control? Reason I expect could you also blame 1022 00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:12.960 him or like you know this the pleasant ship him 1023 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.599 coming back to Superman as you know, prepared to being 1024 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:18.079 beaten down after brock Less. 1025 00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:21.920 What do you think, Jason, No, I don't clearly last 1026 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.679 night was he was scripted to be that way, and 1027 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.559 until I hear John Cena was they wanted him to 1028 00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:29.760 show all this weakness and he refused and I'm just 1029 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:31.880 not gonna buy it. I mean, he was clearly scripted 1030 00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:34.679 in both of the matches that he was in to 1031 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.320 be dominant, and it's not. It's not like he walked 1032 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.679 up there with the legends sitting there and just went 1033 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:42.119 off script. So now, I mean that's just the whoever 1034 00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.360 made the decision, how much influence he had on that, 1035 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:47.840 you know, who knows. But I don't think you can 1036 00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:49.800 just say it's all John Cena's fault that. I don't 1037 00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:51.199 look at it that way at all. I just think 1038 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.440 this is the way he was written on Monday Night. 1039 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.400 Now, another interesting note on that is is last week 1040 00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:59.480 Paul Hayman announced in quarter Hour number five with a 1041 00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:01.599 live ring promo, Johnsen is not here. I don't know 1042 00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:03.239 if I'm supposed to reveal it, but Johnsen is not 1043 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:05.280 here today. And the rating never got back to that 1044 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:08.639 level that was the peak rating of the show, and 1045 00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:11.360 maybe wwe just kind of panicked, going well, yeah, there's 1046 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:14.039 the right story to tell to make money, you know, 1047 00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:17.480 to sell the rematch. But there's the story that we're 1048 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:20.000 desperate to tell, which is, don't worry John Cena fans. 1049 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:21.960 Johnsen is okay, He's here. He's happy. It's a feel 1050 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.039 good show. Please tune in and watch us. And John 1051 00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.440 Cen is still okay. Like I wonder if Jason, if 1052 00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:29.719 they didn't kind of know that. Yeah, if it was 1053 00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:31.840 nineteen seventy eight, they would have done things differently. But 1054 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.119 in this TV ratings driven era, they the John Cena 1055 00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.840 fans just want to see John Cena happy and healthy, 1056 00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.119 and maybe they just kind of fast forward past that 1057 00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:42.159 chapter for that reason. 1058 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.159 Man, that could be. I don't know what the motivation 1059 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.719 was last week, and that Paul Hammon and Lesner segment 1060 00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:50.400 even say that, I don't are they worried? It's the 1061 00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:51.920 people are going to be bitter if they go through 1062 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:53.840 a whole show and he's not there. Why tell people 1063 00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.960 at that point? I think you said the fifth quarter hours, 1064 00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:58.760 so just you know, just into the second hour of 1065 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:00.920 the show. What per does that serve? 1066 00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.039 I know, yeah, I was kind of surprised by that, 1067 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:09.119 and I don't have an answer to it. Let's uh, Anthony, 1068 00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:10.599 thanks for the calls. Oh it's good hear from you. 1069 00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:12.719 Let's go to an email question here. This is Alan 1070 00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.760 g who says, is there any room for a new 1071 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.519 or existing promotion to focus on shoot style wrestling. The 1072 00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:21.119 matches I enjoyed most looked like real competition, such as 1073 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.519 what we just talked about Jason Lesnard against Sena, not 1074 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:29.119 gymnastic spotfests. Is there a room, Jason for a promotion 1075 00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:33.440 to have a niche that isn't, as we as Alan 1076 00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.679 put it, gymnastics spotfest, but rather something that feels and 1077 00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:38.519 looks more real. I wrote a column about this a 1078 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.280 few years ago at the peak of USB, saying, you know, 1079 00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.679 there's room here for promotion to present itself like a 1080 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.119 real sport with a straight face. You don't have to 1081 00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:49.679 pretend after you're off the air, you know, when if 1082 00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:51.920 you're doing a media interview with you know, multi channel 1083 00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:55.679 news or something or variety, that it's not a work, 1084 00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:58.440 you know. I remember TAZ and a variety of wrestles 1085 00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:00.039 in ECW when they went on pay per view. I 1086 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.000 wanted people to think their wrestling was real, and I 1087 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:04.039 was just like, that's an uphill that You've got a 1088 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:07.320 strong headwind trying to do that for so many reasons, 1089 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.639 but when they're trying to get on pay per vi 1090 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:10.800 they wanted people to think they were actually real. Unlike 1091 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.159 the two big promotions in the midst of the Monday 1092 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.159 Night War. I don't think that'll work, but I think 1093 00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:19.079 in the context of the show Jason, there's maybe room 1094 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.280 for a niche promotion that goes much more straightforward sport. 1095 00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.039 I mean some would say Ring of von or hit 1096 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:26.920 some of that, although that has a lot of the 1097 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:28.960 quote gymnastics spots as as part of it. Two. 1098 00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:31.480 I would love to see TNA take that approach. I mean, 1099 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:33.760 it's some of the more memorable matches just in the 1100 00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.679 United States in recent years. You have the scene of 1101 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:39.440 Lesner matches you have and this goes back a little 1102 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:41.639 ways now, but Samoa Joe and Kern Angle was very 1103 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:44.199 well received their first match as well, and those are 1104 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.760 those kind of hard hitting matches with I guess minus 1105 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:50.639 the gymnastics. I don't know that TNA has the roster 1106 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.840 for it right now, and it may take some time 1107 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.440 for if a promotion were to do this, to find 1108 00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:59.320 that roster, because it's just I don't know that you 1109 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:03.079 really see that taught in too many school I think 1110 00:51:03.079 --> 00:51:07.159 it would take some time, but I think people could. 1111 00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:09.599 I think they could, they could at least make the 1112 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:12.280 shift to that right now. I would prefer that over 1113 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.760 kind of the WWE Light Slash ECW throwback, whatever it 1114 00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.639 is they're going for right now. I'd really like to 1115 00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:22.239 see someone try this and just take yeah, a good 1116 00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.400 physical approach to pro wrestling, and especially you know, not 1117 00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:28.159 the tongue in cheek and everything. You know, you know, 1118 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:29.800 we got to remind you that we know it's all 1119 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:33.400 sports entertainment silliness. Now, I just actually play it straight 1120 00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:35.199 for the two hours you're on the air each week. 1121 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:36.480 I think it would be great, and I think they'd 1122 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.400 be shocked at at how well it would be received. 1123 00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:41.360 The A lot of people think the peak moment in 1124 00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:44.880 TNA was the Samo Joe Kurt angle match. Yeah, and 1125 00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.880 it did well for for t and an pay per. 1126 00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:49.679 It did well, and then they moved away from it. 1127 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.000 And I just think TNA's been kind of the victim, 1128 00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:54.159 and this is the case in WW sometimes too. It's 1129 00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:58.440 been the victim of whoever was most interested in gaining 1130 00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:04.480 political favor with whoever was in charge, especially Dixie Carter 1131 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.760 in recent years. Whatever their specialty was is what they 1132 00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:10.440 would convince her was the right direction to go in, 1133 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:13.559 because nobody's going to tell their boss the best thing 1134 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:15.920 for you to do is something I'm incapable of doing 1135 00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:19.039 if you're a wrestler. So the people who had the 1136 00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:21.320 power have always kind of pushed Dixie to promote a 1137 00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:23.880 wrestling in a way that made them the most valuable. 1138 00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:26.840 And nobody with power is going to have I shouldn't 1139 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:31.000 say never ever, but people with power generally are not 1140 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.559 going to present a whole new approach to wrestling because 1141 00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.039 the reason that they have power is they've done they're 1142 00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.039 good at something that has been done before, and that's 1143 00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:44.400 been the catch of not having a visionary student of 1144 00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:49.039 history with a vision for where it could go that's new. 1145 00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:51.199 When you don't have that in the number two or 1146 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.760 number three promotion, then you don't end up getting a 1147 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.760 fresh outlook. You don't get a fresh approach that maybe 1148 00:52:57.760 --> 00:52:59.559 has a chance to really explode in a new way. 1149 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.039 What you get is what TNA Jason has always been. 1150 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:07.840 It's been WW Light or WW nostalgia trying to go 1151 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.639 back in time and relive Nitro, or it's been WWE 1152 00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:13.280 Light trying to get Christian and the Dudley's and Kurt 1153 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:16.519 Angle and Hulkoge and Eric Bischoff, and it's it's always 1154 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.039 like Wow, you know, if we can just come across 1155 00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:21.000 like we're either you know, old WW or we're just 1156 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:24.719 another WWE show and you just stumbled upon another WW 1157 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.440 show you didn't know existed. Because look, here's all these 1158 00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.599 ex WWE stars that you wondered where they went. Just 1159 00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.360 tune in and watch us. They never just established that 1160 00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:34.760 identity like Paul Hayman talked about. So I do think 1161 00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:36.559 there's room for it, but I think there's also room 1162 00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:41.559 for the gymnastics spotfest style too, you know, as a 1163 00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:44.719 niche of a promotion that has an identity. Jason, I 1164 00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:47.079 was really intrigued with Paul Hayman's comments a couple of 1165 00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:49.119 weeks back where he talked in more detail about the 1166 00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:52.360 idea he presented to TNA about doing a very youth 1167 00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:55.079 oriented product. And I don't know if that included a 1168 00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:58.400 very strict, narrow style that would stand out, or if 1169 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:00.440 you want to do something youth oriented, but that had 1170 00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:02.719 a wide array of styles. But you know, Paul's one 1171 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:04.639 of those guys who would have shaken things up, and 1172 00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:06.719 he would be the guy probably with a vision for change, 1173 00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.760 because as you've talked a lot about too on your 1174 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:11.480 Members Show audio shows, Paul doesn't. He's not a guy 1175 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:14.599 likes to look back and just you know, relive ECW. 1176 00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:16.280 It's not something he likes to talk a lot about, 1177 00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:20.039 or think about or analyze. He likes to move forward 1178 00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:21.239 and come up with the next big thing. 1179 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:27.760 I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin mcclellands. 1180 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:30.400 We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the 1181 00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:33.239 wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 1182 00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.320 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 1183 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.519 Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and 1184 00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:41.000 women who could be big time stars in a few years. 1185 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:43.320 There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W 1186 00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:46.559 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums 1187 00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:48.599 local wrestling hotspots around the country. 1188 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:50.840 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 1189 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:53.119 gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris 1190 00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:55.159 complain about bad referees. 1191 00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:56.920 And Justin bemoaning dog pal fins. 1192 00:54:57.079 --> 00:54:59.480 Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue thunderbomb 1193 00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.119 whin I'm mat. 1194 00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.880 How can I like the name? Says We cover the 1195 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:05.440 hottest independent promotions from around the country, so it as 1196 00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:09.719 Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro, Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling. 1197 00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:12.440 Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling. 1198 00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.000 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right. 1199 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.679 Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 1200 00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:20.679 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your 1201 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:23.639 podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast, 1202 00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:27.199 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 1203 00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:30.880 Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at PW 1204 00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:41.440 Touchdailycast dot com. 1205 00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:44.639 Yeah, and I know at the time when we was 1206 00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:47.880 talking with Dixie, the idea was basically they had all 1207 00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:49.760 those legends there at the time, and the idea was 1208 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.559 to keep one. And I don't know who the one is, 1209 00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.079 but it was to keep one with the idea that 1210 00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:57.639 that way the person stands out and means something rather 1211 00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:00.559 than having all these guys that when you say every 1212 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.880 week and there's just one after another, it's just like, 1213 00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:06.320 how how many old guys do you need? Talking? And Yeah, 1214 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:10.400 and getting back to the whole like the X division style, 1215 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:13.760 I'm convinced that it's not even so much that it 1216 00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.880 has to be MMA style straight up. You know, every 1217 00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.960 match is like that, Like you're saying, I also think 1218 00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:23.800 there's room. It's just the concept of going two hours 1219 00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:26.400 every Thursday night or Wednesday night now, I guess for 1220 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.320 impact and just treating it like it's a sport, not 1221 00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:32.719 abandoned the silliness. And hey, I get a kick out 1222 00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:34.440 of Rockstar Spud too, And it doesn't mean there can't 1223 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:36.719 be a place for him to be funny and in 1224 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:40.119 different ways, but just some of the skits and the 1225 00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:43.159 backstage cameras and just take a different approach, and I 1226 00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:44.360 really think it would pay off. 1227 00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:47.400 Allen also wants to know why does Page do headbutts terribly? 1228 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:49.920 Her head butt her head barely moves downward, and her 1229 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.239 hair can't hide the huge space between her head and 1230 00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.559 her opponents. She's a good wrestler and she should know better, 1231 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:56.280 as should WWWE personnel. 1232 00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.840 You know, I didn't notice that last night. The one 1233 00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:01.400 that the ones that jumped out to me were the 1234 00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.119 Russet kicks. Those were awful. 1235 00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.719 What filled out to me is is the well, the 1236 00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:11.880 oh what was it? The sweat Roman reigns being swunk 1237 00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:14.639 into the ring post and there was one other move that, Oh, 1238 00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:16.960 the Superman punch at the end too, didn't look good. 1239 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:21.199 The Superman punch is tough because you know, WWE puts 1240 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:22.800 a lot of thought into the camera angles they use 1241 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:24.880 for different moves. I mean, there's a lot more that 1242 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:26.880 goes into that than I think the average viewer realizes 1243 00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.280 they really placed the camera in the right spot to 1244 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:31.039 hide things, and then if it looks good, they'll show 1245 00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:33.800 her replay from a new angle and rains of Superman punches, 1246 00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:35.400 and they're coming from all different directions. A lot of 1247 00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:37.079 times can look weak if they don't get quite the 1248 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.440 right direction. Although, speaking of which, Jason, the thing that 1249 00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:41.199 kind of scared me the most was the cinder block. 1250 00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:43.239 Have we seen the last cinder block being thrown into 1251 00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.519 a ring post and shattering? I hope? 1252 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:46.639 So. 1253 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:47.679 I don't know. 1254 00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:51.119 Why did they I mean, why didn't they just when 1255 00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:53.679 they had when they did that angle with Ambrose? Why 1256 00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:55.440 didn't they just use a real cinder block? Do we 1257 00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:58.519 need to see it break? Wouldn't it be more impressive 1258 00:57:58.519 --> 00:57:59.480 if they didn't break? 1259 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:03.039 I guess people know center blocks break when thrown hard 1260 00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:06.119 by a really strong muscular wrestler into a You know 1261 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:11.880 Metal post. I it was sort of like the Nikki 1262 00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.440 Bella comment about I wish you died in the womb. 1263 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.400 I'm just wondering if that was even I guess it 1264 00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:16.719 had to have been meant to happen. I don't think 1265 00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:19.000 rains would be thrown that stuff around. But I just 1266 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:20.880 regardless of whether they should have done it or not 1267 00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:24.239 in terms of showing that it shatters upon impact on metal, 1268 00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:27.559 I just who didn't see the possibility that maybe this 1269 00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.400 is a safety concern. I mean, Cole seemed genuinely concerned 1270 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:32.440 for Lawler when he asked if he was okay. 1271 00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:36.639 Yeah, I mean well, I just when I first saw 1272 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.239 the ambush thing, it didn't really even bother me that much. 1273 00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:42.000 But there were just so many people that were mocking 1274 00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:44.920 the thing. They had to be aware that people were 1275 00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:47.320 looked at the cinder blocks from a week from the 1276 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:49.519 first angle and just thought these are silly and they 1277 00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:52.079 look weak, and don't go there again, and they just 1278 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.000 felt the need to come out and show you one 1279 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:55.960 more time, all right. 1280 00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:58.920 VFP member Matt called back on the VFP Express Line. Matt, 1281 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.639 welcome back to the show or welcome to the show. 1282 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:03.920 What have you got for us today and can you 1283 00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:04.400 hear me again? 1284 00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:04.679 Yeah? 1285 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:05.360 We can though, yep. 1286 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:08.519 Oh cool, I don't know what that was about. Damn 1287 00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:09.639 com from Charcotte Today. 1288 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:11.920 Oh okay cool? 1289 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:12.199 Yeah? 1290 00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:13.159 What have you got from? 1291 00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:16.480 Yeah? Yeah, I agree with you guys. I thought Nicki 1292 00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:18.920 was great last night, like Breeze still terrible, but when 1293 00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:20.639 they gave Nicky some time because she was out there 1294 00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:22.119 for a while, I thought she really lit it up 1295 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:26.440 and did a good job. And I thought amber smissing 1296 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.920 was was definitely felt on that show like I don't 1297 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:32.480 have any I don't feel like they have that Daniel 1298 00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:35.079 Briant seen Ambrose m punk type of guy that the 1299 00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:40.760 crowd is like really cheering right now. But anyhow, on 1300 00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:43.039 on Brain, how do you think it's going to pan 1301 00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.199 out between now and Wrestlemandi if they try and follow 1302 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:48.159 through with uh, you know every week we see rock 1303 00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:51.360 Lestern and giving these off and interviews and rock Lesters 1304 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.519 pusing these off the matches and brains is kind of 1305 00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:59.159 like floundering on the mic and like working really hard 1306 00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:03.639 to have a two star match and if things keep me, 1307 01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:07.119 I just feel like five time Wrestleman he comes around, Uh, 1308 01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:09.599 he's just gonna get food hard, especially with the King 1309 01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:12.079 of Bryan comes back. The neighbors keeps continuing with the 1310 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:15.239 following level work because I just I don't know. I 1311 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:17.599 just think when Rains gets that point, if they they 1312 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:20.360 follow through it, they brock Lesards just doing these awesome 1313 01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:22.639 performance as a team, and he's that crowd get a 1314 01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:25.559 turn off and I want to get your guy on that. 1315 01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:28.760 Sure, yeah, I mean, Jason, are you any more or 1316 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:31.559 less confident and rains his ability to be the guy 1317 01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:33.920 that fans want to see win the Rumble If if 1318 01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:34.599 it comes to that. 1319 01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:36.960 They're gonna have to book that very carefully, or I mean, 1320 01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:38.800 if if that match for coming up next month, but 1321 01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:42.199 obviously that's the key is well, let's see how they 1322 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:45.480 they move him along between now and then. I think 1323 01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:48.400 there's out there are already some hardcore fans who've decided 1324 01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:51.679 that that's not who they want to see it WrestleMania. 1325 01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:55.639 I don't see it with the masses just yet, though. 1326 01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:58.320 I mean, the masses seem like they're still behind Roman reigns, 1327 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.760 so it's it's not like gets just a complete lost cause. 1328 01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:06.039 That said, the progression has been slow enough that I 1329 01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:08.000 would have a fallback plan as I talked about with 1330 01:01:08.039 --> 01:01:11.000 Bruce Mitchell last week on this show. I wouldn't I 1331 01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.400 wouldn't scrap the plan for Rains right now, but I 1332 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:16.960 wouldn't be afraid to call an audible in January either. 1333 01:01:17.239 --> 01:01:19.639 If it just he's not ready, We're worried about this. 1334 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:21.880 We think the fans like you know this guy or 1335 01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:25.039 that guy more, I would at least be open to 1336 01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:27.239 the idea of sitting down and discussing is this the 1337 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:29.679 best move right now for us in January? If I 1338 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:32.599 were in their shoes, Matt, you had to follow up. 1339 01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:37.199 Yeah, I don't know if she was last night. I 1340 01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:40.880 was actually surprised. But after he did the whole cerebal 1341 01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:42.960 facina as I talked about, Rains played his arms up 1342 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.079 and there is that. There was definitely some audible too 1343 01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:46.599 at that moment. 1344 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:51.719 Yes, yeah, celebration. I'm not saying Rains isn't. I'm not 1345 01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:55.719 saying Rains is in trouble, but he's because Sason said, 1346 01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:58.800 there's plenty of time left, but he's not at a 1347 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:05.719 rapid rate. Eating the inherent and understandable concern anybody would 1348 01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:08.760 have when someone has chosen this early in his career 1349 01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:13.800 in this early in his establishing a rapport with fans, 1350 01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:16.719 that he's been chosen to be the top guy before 1351 01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:19.000 the fans choose him, there's gonna be a reason for 1352 01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:23.800 worry and concern. And that's that's I just he's not 1353 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:26.079 I write I talked about on the Keller Hotline in 1354 01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:27.880 more detail, and I talked with Steve Austin about it 1355 01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:31.760 last Friday. It there's things he needs to do to 1356 01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.960 connect with the crowd more, and he The good news is, 1357 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.320 as Austin said last Friday here on the live cast there, 1358 01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:41.199 he spent time with Roman Reigns off camera, and Roman 1359 01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:43.719 has it in him. You know that he's a funny 1360 01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.360 guy and he's got charisma. I pointed out a very 1361 01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:49.679 specific situation on TV recently with Steve where I thought 1362 01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:52.599 Roman showed a side of himself for not seeing enough 1363 01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:54.440 of that. If he shows more that, I think he'll 1364 01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:56.360 connect with the fans. But it's it could be a 1365 01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:58.239 bumpy road and it's going to be a learning experience. 1366 01:02:58.280 --> 01:02:59.880 It'll be fascinating to watch. Anyway, go ahead. 1367 01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:04.519 Yeah, I know you guys probably want to say it, 1368 01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:07.880 but I think that I think if they need to 1369 01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.119 pull the plug on having him defeat Pleasure at Mane. 1370 01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:12.039 I don't think he's gonna get there in time. I think, like, 1371 01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:14.119 if you think there guys got it and you want 1372 01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:16.440 to protect him, give him another year to develop and 1373 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:18.280 lets the crowd really next to him and you know, 1374 01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:20.000 follow in love with who he is as a character 1375 01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:22.079 and make them want it, because right now I think 1376 01:03:22.119 --> 01:03:24.480 people feel like I see what's coming and I'm not 1377 01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:28.079 like it. But if they didn't pull the plugs on it, 1378 01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:31.320 which I just don't, I just don't see him get there. 1379 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:33.920 If he has something special, save it, you know, like 1380 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.000 they used it. You only have one shot. If he 1381 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.880 goes to Wrestlemani and that kind boos them, he's gonna 1382 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.079 have a tough tough time covering from that rest of 1383 01:03:41.079 --> 01:03:43.639 his career, you know, to get back and get back. 1384 01:03:43.519 --> 01:03:44.280 In the saddles. 1385 01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.119 But I did just pull on it. Uh, who would 1386 01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:49.440 you guys? Who do you think this might be able 1387 01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:52.280 to fill that spot? The Ambrose Daniel Bryan, who do 1388 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.199 you think might be they might be able to push 1389 01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:56.639 in there. Maybe if you want to pull back on 1390 01:03:56.679 --> 01:03:59.400 Breens give another year to develop, I think they could. 1391 01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:01.559 But yeah, I mean those are the guys that come 1392 01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:05.039 to mind right away, Jason, you know, Dean Ambrose and 1393 01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:10.239 Daniel Bryan. I mean that's part of the conundrum with 1394 01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:13.440 Roman Reins is if not him, who you know, do 1395 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.719 you just do Sina versus Lesnar in a third match 1396 01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:18.039 at Mania? 1397 01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:18.280 Like? 1398 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:21.039 What what options do they have? I just wasn't it. 1399 01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:22.719 Was it last Tuesday, Jason, you and Bruce kind of 1400 01:04:22.719 --> 01:04:24.280 talked about the pros and cons of either going all 1401 01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:26.079 out with Rains or pulling back a little. We did. 1402 01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:29.760 Yeah, absolutely, and I'll add not that I want to 1403 01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:32.440 see it, and I don't think you can now that 1404 01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.599 they're going to it already. You had it not you 1405 01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:38.440 could have built Sena Lesner up. And the only reason 1406 01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:40.280 I bring that up is that we all know that's 1407 01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:42.480 a bench McMahon fallback plan, you know, win and doubt, 1408 01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:44.800 go with John Cena, and the other one that jumps 1409 01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:47.079 out at me is a possibility. It was kind of 1410 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.440 there was. There were some rumors about it, and I 1411 01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:52.320 don't know that anything ever, I don't know how valid 1412 01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.400 the rumors turned out to be. But if they do 1413 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:57.639 have access to the rock, I mean, it doesn't set 1414 01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:01.239 you up, obviously with your next next big Star, but 1415 01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:05.840 if they feel like the WrestleMania Network subscription push is 1416 01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:09.400 more important at that point, Rock versus Legendar is a 1417 01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:11.519 pretty marquee matchup, and we know they wanted to go 1418 01:05:11.559 --> 01:05:13.119 there with Wressele Nanny already. 1419 01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:18.519 Yes, that's true. I've been told and I just my 1420 01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:20.760 gut also would tell me lean against Rock coming back 1421 01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.280 to the ring for thirty one, and it sounds like 1422 01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:27.480 that's not likely. I wouldn't say it's impossible. I think 1423 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:30.760 there's I mean, if Rains doesn't get over Jason, then 1424 01:05:30.920 --> 01:05:32.920 we might see an acceleration of trying to do some 1425 01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:34.559 of the ideas that I talked about over the weekend 1426 01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:36.880 on the VP Weight Teller Hotline in terms of how 1427 01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:40.800 to incorporate Sting and Hulk Hogan and John Cena and 1428 01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:42.960 Steve Austin and I think had some other legend in 1429 01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:46.280 the mix. You know, there's these kind of wild cards 1430 01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:47.679 that you can play, and I went over a bunch 1431 01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:50.239 of scenarios for VFP members about that. I mean, they 1432 01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:54.000 could end up with a week's show relatively speaking for 1433 01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:57.320 us Mania among their core, main full time guys, and 1434 01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:00.159 they might have to, you know, sweeten it up with 1435 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.360 some legends and kind of legacy stars to try to 1436 01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:06.480 create some novel matchups to sell it. But their go 1437 01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:08.280 right now is to go with Rains, and I think 1438 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:11.360 they just see him there. It's not a slow build 1439 01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:13.079 in the sense that they're giving him three years. But 1440 01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:15.880 I think they're not panicking yet and there is time 1441 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:18.320 to make adjustments. And I'm not quite as pessimistic as 1442 01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:20.559 Matt that they can't correct I won't say correct course, 1443 01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:23.440 but just you know, have him find his way in 1444 01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:25.679 his connection with the crowd, because there is something there 1445 01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:29.079 that I also, you know, I agree is worth looking 1446 01:06:29.079 --> 01:06:31.280 at and investing in. What do you think they're react 1447 01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:32.920 What do you think the thoughts on Rains would be 1448 01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:35.760 right now if word hadn't kind of gotten out that 1449 01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:38.320 he was the guy, would there be more of a 1450 01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:42.079 push what I think, my personal guess would be less skepticision. 1451 01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:44.920 But do you think some of the people, the hardcore 1452 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.599 fan would be rallying behind him more ago and they 1453 01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:51.000 got to do more with Rains Randy Orton, But we 1454 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:52.079 need to see more with Rains. 1455 01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:52.719 What are they doing? 1456 01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:55.440 You know, I go back to this all the time. 1457 01:06:55.559 --> 01:06:58.920 I don't think when you're in a building with eight twelve, 1458 01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:03.440 fifteen thousand people that if you pulled those people that 1459 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.599 they are not real that they're even aware that Rains 1460 01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:10.199 is the chosen one. I just don't think more than 1461 01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:13.320 three four, five, six, seven eight percent of the audience 1462 01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:16.840 is because as a lot of people who attend WW shows, 1463 01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:18.760 a lot of people millions and millions and millions watch 1464 01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:22.760 raw and the percentage wise they're just not studying websites 1465 01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:25.760 and listening to podcasts at a number that I think 1466 01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:30.480 would be noticeable if so. My point is, if Rains 1467 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.159 was connecting with the crowd, he has had every chance 1468 01:07:34.199 --> 01:07:36.400 to do it, regardless of whether word got out or not. 1469 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:38.159 Like I just I think when you live in the 1470 01:07:38.199 --> 01:07:41.719 insider wrestling information bubble, in a sense, you think everybody 1471 01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:44.800 is privy to that or it's everyone's processing it, Like, oh, 1472 01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:46.320 I'd be more into Rains, but I didn't think he's 1473 01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:48.760 being you know, pushed hard at us and we're being 1474 01:07:48.760 --> 01:07:51.599 told to cheer him. I just think that stuff happens 1475 01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:54.679 more organically and out out of the realm of podcasts, 1476 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:58.960 newsletters and websites and apps. So my thinking is, regardless 1477 01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.199 of word getting out, that Rains is a guy. His 1478 01:08:01.239 --> 01:08:03.119 reaction that he gets in live buildings has to do 1479 01:08:03.159 --> 01:08:05.400 with his connection with the crowd that night and on 1480 01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:09.480 television in previous weeks, a lot more than information leaking 1481 01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:13.280 from behind the scenes, way way more so, it's up 1482 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:16.079 to Rains to go on TV and get that crowd reaction. 1483 01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:22.119 Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite 1484 01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:24.520 in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts 1485 01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:26.119 on the show or a topic you want us to 1486 01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.880 address or a question for us. Wadekellor Podcast at pwtorch 1487 01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:35.199 dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's 1488 01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:36.920 anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want 1489 01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:40.119 us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, 1490 01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:44.319 that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. 1491 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:47.000 We invite that interaction, let us know what you think 1492 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:49.319 of what we're saying, and let us know what you 1493 01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:51.960 want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. 1494 01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:58.560 Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. 1495 01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:02.359 So it does, and you know, I can speak to 1496 01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:04.319 that a little bit because just last night at the 1497 01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:06.600 Fantasy Draft that I was at a friend of mine 1498 01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:11.079 who's a casual WWE fan. He you know, he was 1499 01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:13.119 just kind of catching up on things he watches. He's 1500 01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:15.279 a fan of Brock lessoners. He'll watch there and then 1501 01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:17.880 certain guys, but he's just been kind of on and 1502 01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.600 off with the product lately. He had no idea. Rains was, 1503 01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:22.399 you know, the Mania guy where he was wondering, I 1504 01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:24.600 can't remember what match he threw out and was like, no, 1505 01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:27.560 the plan is you know, Rains and Brock, and his 1506 01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:29.920 eyes lit up like, oh, I like that. So I mean, 1507 01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:33.000 there's one casual viewer right there, and I'm with you. 1508 01:09:33.039 --> 01:09:35.520 I believe there are many more that don't know he's 1509 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:38.399 the guy and just are enjoying watching him right now, 1510 01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:41.039 wondering what happens next with him. They may not even 1511 01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:43.640 be looking at him challenging Brock right now. But if 1512 01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.000 the build is good enough, you know, obviously that's the key, 1513 01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:48.319 is if the build is good enough. As far as 1514 01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:51.359 the rumble, it last year was tricky. They were in 1515 01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:54.520 Pittsburgh and my first thought on it was, oh, it's 1516 01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:57.359 you know, it's the crowd there. It was just a 1517 01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:00.600 Pittsburgh crowd. But it wasn't you know, after talking with 1518 01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:02.439 people who attended to show, we would hear from some 1519 01:10:02.439 --> 01:10:04.479 people that said no, it was a lot of people 1520 01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:07.920 traveled for the Rumble. And the reason I bring that 1521 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.640 up is because it felt it had kind of a 1522 01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.439 mania feel to it. I don't know exactly if we'll 1523 01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:14.760 get that this year. If you're going to have that, 1524 01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:17.479 I can't even remember off the time my head where 1525 01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:19.159 the Royal Rumble is at, but I don't know that 1526 01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:23.760 you're going to get that hardcore fan traveling all over 1527 01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:26.119 the place. I mean East Coast is a little more 1528 01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:29.199 convenient for those fans. And without remembering off the top 1529 01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:31.239 of my head where the Rumble is this year, I 1530 01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:33.560 don't know that you'll get it. But if they are 1531 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:36.600 worried about it, I want to approach it. I came 1532 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:38.840 up with if they want Rains to be the guy, 1533 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:41.640 but they're worried about the backlash, make the last two guys, 1534 01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:45.039 Roman Reigns and John Cena. I mean, you run, you know, 1535 01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:46.920 and you do run the risk of the fans just 1536 01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:48.319 boo the hell out of both of them. But I 1537 01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.319 really don't think so. 1538 01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.800 Yes, and you know what, and it's by the way, 1539 01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:54.439 it's gonna be in Philadelphia. 1540 01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:58.279 Ooh, God, forget everything I just said. Oh, that's even worse. 1541 01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:02.079 What are they thinking? I know, I know, it's gonna 1542 01:11:02.079 --> 01:11:05.720 be fascinating how they manage, how they manage things. I 1543 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:12.359 the Roman reigns is going to well. The reason I'm 1544 01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:13.439 so many of the three things I want to say 1545 01:11:13.439 --> 01:11:15.359 at once, and I've just got to pick one. Daniel Bryan. 1546 01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:19.680 The thought behind the scenes in WWE is, Oh, he's 1547 01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:23.720 popular because of the Internet. But it's just these Apparently 1548 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:26.319 they think Internet fans can scream ten times louder than 1549 01:11:26.359 --> 01:11:29.439 anybody else can, and that they're populate the crowds enough 1550 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:32.560 that this isn't real. It's a mirage. He's not over 1551 01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:35.960 with the actual fan base. It's just this group of 1552 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.680 people starting. Yes, Chance, and it's fun to chance. Yes. 1553 01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:41.279 So the internet fans who love him but aren't big 1554 01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.039 enough to really support our company are huge company. They're 1555 01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:48.319 starting the s Chance, and then the mainstream fans that 1556 01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:50.279 make up ninety percent of our audience. They don't really 1557 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:52.039 like Daniel Brian and see him as a top guy, 1558 01:11:52.279 --> 01:11:54.720 but they're all chanting along because it's fun. And that's 1559 01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:57.119 why they tried to prove that when they tried to glone. 1560 01:11:57.239 --> 01:12:00.840 The shifted the yes chance to Daniel to Big Show, 1561 01:12:00.920 --> 01:12:03.199 and it flopped people that are like, I'm not chanting 1562 01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:05.319 yes for Big Show last fall. And then you know, 1563 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:07.399 even Stephanie's kind of doing it with her things Steph' 1564 01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:10.199 best Steph. And they've been other instances of it. It 1565 01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:15.520 just wrestlers get over in crowds of five, ten, fifteen 1566 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:18.640 thousand people, not because of anything the Internet says. And 1567 01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:21.760 I'm saying that as somebody who's made a living off 1568 01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:25.199 of quote the Internet, so to speak, and before that, 1569 01:12:25.479 --> 01:12:28.000 you know, dirt sheets, going back to the late eighties. 1570 01:12:28.079 --> 01:12:33.039 That's been my career, and I've consistently downplayed our influence 1571 01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:34.920 on crowds of ten or fifteen thousand people. I think 1572 01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.039 sometimes we're the canary and the coal mine. I think 1573 01:12:37.079 --> 01:12:41.119 sometimes people who study the industry really closely and aren't 1574 01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.600 in the wrestling bubble where the people in power say 1575 01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:48.359 things that everybody nods along and says yes. I don't 1576 01:12:48.439 --> 01:12:50.399 dare disagree with you, because that would be bad for 1577 01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:53.079 my career. I think people get in that or insulate 1578 01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:56.159 themselves from any different opinions. We're not in there, Jason. 1579 01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:59.880 We get differing opinions. We get, you know, yelled at 1580 01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:03.720 and called out a lot for our opinions, and people 1581 01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:07.239 don't fear doing so. And so I just I think 1582 01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:11.720 if Roman Reigns is ready to be the headliner at 1583 01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:15.279 WrestleMania wwe should have nothing to fear about the Philadelphia crowd. 1584 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:17.119 And it has nothing to do with Internet fans. It 1585 01:13:17.199 --> 01:13:18.520 has to do with the way they promote them and 1586 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.520 present them and what Roman Reigns is able to do 1587 01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:22.720 to connect to the crowd. And again, I'll just I'll 1588 01:13:22.800 --> 01:13:24.479 point to you and Bruce last week on the live 1589 01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:25.920 cast if you want to hear more on it, and 1590 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.680 I'll point you to my discussion with Steve Austin, who's 1591 01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:31.560 around Roman Reigns last week in LA And I just 1592 01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:33.600 encourage you to check out those two conversations two from 1593 01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:35.079 more on it. Trust me, we're gonna have a lot 1594 01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.880 more to say every week, probably about Roman Rags as 1595 01:13:37.880 --> 01:13:40.600 we go forward. Let's try to get in a couple 1596 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:43.239 more calls here. We'll go to Eric go two five six. 1597 01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:45.239 This is Alabama, I believe, Please state your name in 1598 01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:46.079 the city you're calling from. 1599 01:13:48.039 --> 01:13:50.600 All right, this is Shawn from gas and Alabama. 1600 01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:52.560 From where I'm sorry. 1601 01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:55.399 Gas in Alabama. 1602 01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:56.920 Oh cool, Yeah, what have you got for us? 1603 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:01.960 I'll just joined in. What'd y'all think. 1604 01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:03.199 About the Jeff Hardy. 1605 01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:05.640 Promo this show? They have to find that he's gonna 1606 01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:06.600 final with him again. 1607 01:14:07.119 --> 01:14:10.439 That is an intriguing question, Jason. I was like, I've 1608 01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:13.279 been an advocate for WWW bringing Jeff Hardy back if 1609 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:15.439 they do their due diligence and everything's fine in terms 1610 01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:17.680 of if you want to spark business. And I talked 1611 01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:19.800 about this on the Keller headline last night for VFT 1612 01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:22.520 members after Raw. Jeff Hardy's a guy one of the 1613 01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:25.399 very few people at WWE could sign who would make 1614 01:14:25.399 --> 01:14:27.439 a difference, who can also work house shows and make 1615 01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:29.720 a difference in ticket sales, and he can sell merchandise, 1616 01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:31.520 and he can work pay per views, and you can 1617 01:14:31.560 --> 01:14:33.760 do a money match with him. I think Jeff Hardy 1618 01:14:33.800 --> 01:14:36.720 against bray Wider, Jeff Hardy against Seth Rollins even feels 1619 01:14:36.760 --> 01:14:38.800 WrestleMania worthy to me if they did the right thing 1620 01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:42.239 with Jeff Hardy, and so I was intrigued by that. 1621 01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:46.119 It felt a little random. What's your take on promoting 1622 01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:48.760 the Jeff Hardy thing on the network. 1623 01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:51.279 Yeah, I mean, it does feel rang. I think this 1624 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:53.319 is going to come up anytime they do something like that. 1625 01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.199 His deal, don't. I can't even tell you what year 1626 01:14:57.199 --> 01:14:59.680 it expires. It probably this year, but I don't know. 1627 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.439 And it's either he either debuted with them. It was 1628 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:06.119 either the January or the Mark Show when they tried 1629 01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:08.520 to go head to head with WWE. I was talking 1630 01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:11.720 with the January. Yeah, then that was what somebody else 1631 01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:13.600 guessed earlier today when I was talking with him about it. 1632 01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:17.800 So if the contract comes up and he already knows 1633 01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:19.720 okay T and I's not gonna be able to afford me, 1634 01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:21.600 or he just wants to change of pace a little 1635 01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:24.800 more security, whatever, they should jump all over it. Absolutely. 1636 01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.840 I know he'll probably. I don't know how the strike 1637 01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:30.880 system works. Does he lose a strike now because enough 1638 01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:34.560 time has passed? And in his case, I mean, I 1639 01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:37.119 think Jeff Hardy's in a much better place, clearly, and 1640 01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:40.159 that's awesome, but he's been gone from the company. That's 1641 01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:42.119 one where I would disagree with taking a strike away. 1642 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.199 If you're active with the company and you're passing all 1643 01:15:45.239 --> 01:15:47.000 their drug tests and all that, great, but if you 1644 01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:49.039 just disappear and go somewhere else. Should you really have 1645 01:15:49.119 --> 01:15:49.960 a strike taken off? 1646 01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:52.880 Well, you should have a strike taken off if they 1647 01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:55.399 want to invest in him and not feel like total hypocrites. 1648 01:15:55.399 --> 01:15:57.359 If he fails a test and he's in a big 1649 01:15:57.439 --> 01:15:59.159 Brestlemania match and they don't want to take him off 1650 01:15:59.239 --> 01:15:59.680 the show. 1651 01:16:01.039 --> 01:16:02.760 Well that's just it from their perspective. 1652 01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:06.439 Yeah, I'm being pragmatic on their sake. Of course they're 1653 01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:08.399 going to rationalize taking a strike away. Should they know, 1654 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:10.560 But there's a lot of things that their wellness policy 1655 01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:13.159 should include that it doesn't, which is more transparency. And 1656 01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:15.520 I mean seriously, I mean, what, when's the last time 1657 01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:18.840 there was any kind of wellness news. I mean, it's 1658 01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:21.520 it's been the pattern. You you covered WWE long enough, 1659 01:16:21.560 --> 01:16:24.159 and you realize they pay attention to that kind of 1660 01:16:24.199 --> 01:16:26.439 thing when there's media scrutiny and when there isn't, they don't, 1661 01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:29.439 or government scrutiny or congressional scrutiny, and when there isn't, 1662 01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:31.560 they don't. And it's been a pattern in WAVES for 1663 01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:35.000 twenty five years, and that we're in that pattern right now. 1664 01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:38.279 So I honestly don't even know that it would cross 1665 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:41.119 their minds when bringing him in to even be worried 1666 01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:45.399 about hypocrisy and taking a strike away because that policy 1667 01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:48.279 is is they have a lot of latitude on how 1668 01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:49.439 they execute and interpret it. 1669 01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:52.720 And quite frankly, if I were them and they brought 1670 01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:54.479 him in, they put him in a high position and 1671 01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:56.760 he failed again, I'd want to be doing with them anyway. 1672 01:16:56.880 --> 01:16:59.560 I mean it's just oh right, oh true, Yeah, but 1673 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:01.600 you'd want to be done with him the day after Mania, 1674 01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:03.720 not not on long week before Mania, you know. And 1675 01:17:04.159 --> 01:17:07.279 I'm not particularly worried about that with yeah, I mean, 1676 01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:09.439 of course, well I am. If they put him back 1677 01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:11.279 on the road full time, I don't even know if 1678 01:17:11.279 --> 01:17:13.239 that he would agree to that. I'd be surprised if 1679 01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.359 he would. I think he's got the taste of kind 1680 01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:17.199 of the good life, just with a little bit more 1681 01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:20.079 of a reduce schedule in TNA. And there have been 1682 01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:22.640 times where I know he's you know, people who were 1683 01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:24.920 on the road with him were saying he's doing as 1684 01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.239 much as ever. You know that people had worked for 1685 01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:29.880 both companies said he was out there constantly. But this 1686 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:31.640 is back what he was having a lot of issues too, 1687 01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:34.880 And it seems obviously nowadays they're just not running as 1688 01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:39.000 many shows. But you know, with the young daughter, and 1689 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:41.800 who knows what he would be interested in. But he's 1690 01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:44.439 a guy where you know, obviously you push to get 1691 01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:45.920 him on the road, you push to get what you 1692 01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:49.319 can if you're WWE. But if he wants to reduce schedule, 1693 01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:49.840 he's a guy. 1694 01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:52.159 Give it to and and you know, if you could 1695 01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:54.119 give him the Jericho schedule where he works full time 1696 01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:56.600 but in stretches and then there's time off, and that's 1697 01:17:56.800 --> 01:17:57.760 I've always advocated to. 1698 01:17:57.960 --> 01:17:58.960 So I like it. 1699 01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:02.079 I'm not quite sure to make of it. He's a 1700 01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.760 top star for TNA. WWB clearly doesn't hear TNA at 1701 01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:07.840 this point. I can talk more about TNA and the 1702 01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:09.840 VFP after show, but yeah, I mean I've. 1703 01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:12.319 Heard, and Kurt Angle is just on their website, you know, 1704 01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:15.279 and there have been all sorts of I've heard it 1705 01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:18.039 and others have as well that you know, they he 1706 01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:20.600 was told they're not interested at this time. Now that 1707 01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:23.640 obviously could change, and it might even be because he's 1708 01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:26.119 still under TNA contract and they're not interested in this time. 1709 01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:28.800 But I think anytime something like this happens, people are 1710 01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:31.359 gonna automatically wonder just mean he's coming back and you 1711 01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:32.800 know it's part of the fun, but I don't think 1712 01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:36.239 it always does. All right, let's go to Eric code 1713 01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:40.800 eighth five, California. Whoa eight o five A lot of background, 1714 01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:42.840 nooids are sorry, Please state your name in the city 1715 01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:43.399 you're calling from. 1716 01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:48.760 Oh guy, my name is so zao Coniff, California. 1717 01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:50.880 Hey, Jose, what have you got for Jason to me today? 1718 01:18:52.720 --> 01:18:54.760 I think it's fine that the WWE goes back to 1719 01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:57.720 the attitude with Dan as What do you guys think 1720 01:18:57.760 --> 01:18:58.039 about that? 1721 01:18:58.800 --> 01:18:58.840 What? 1722 01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:01.279 What do you think the attitude era consists of? 1723 01:19:01.399 --> 01:19:01.439 That? 1724 01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:02.800 It that they don't do now? 1725 01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:09.199 Well, a little Dean Ambrose has that attitude in on, 1726 01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:11.239 you know, and that's that's right. 1727 01:19:11.319 --> 01:19:14.880 But but he's but but Hose he is. You're you're 1728 01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:17.640 citing something that is on TV now, So what do 1729 01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:21.520 you want that isn't on TV now? Because you're kind 1730 01:19:21.560 --> 01:19:23.159 of I'm not I'm not trying to give you a 1731 01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:24.439 hard time. I'm just trying to hone in on what 1732 01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:26.800 you mean because you're saying I like Dean Ambrose because 1733 01:19:26.800 --> 01:19:28.439 it reminds me of the Attitude era. They should go 1734 01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:30.000 back to it. But they have gone back to it 1735 01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:31.800 because Dean Ambrose is part of the product right now. 1736 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:36.239 Yeah, No, yes, a little bit there. No, I'm not 1737 01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:41.199 not Gina a little bit more X rated like Operative. 1738 01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:44.840 Yeah, but you're They're on USA Network and they have 1739 01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:49.159 they have John Cena merchandise and kmarts and toys, r 1740 01:19:49.239 --> 01:19:51.640 US displays. You're not going to see Sable, it's not 1741 01:19:51.760 --> 01:19:54.399 gonna happen. You're not going to see Uh, You're not 1742 01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:56.159 going to see X. You're not gonna see a live 1743 01:19:56.199 --> 01:19:58.119 sex show with Edgendleda. You're not going to see X 1744 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:01.119 Pac and Tory and kne And I mean, it's just 1745 01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:06.560 that's literally not going to happen and so not worth 1746 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:10.239 the trade off of losing all their mainstream corporate sponsors 1747 01:20:10.279 --> 01:20:13.399 that they've worked ten years to earn. The trust of it. 1748 01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:16.119 What you're going to see cinderblocks, and you're going to 1749 01:20:16.159 --> 01:20:19.199 see innuendo, and you're going to see crazy characters that 1750 01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:22.399 you like, like Dean Ambrose, but you're not You're just 1751 01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:27.760 you're not going to see pasties on breasts and simulated 1752 01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:30.119 sex acts. That's not going to happen. And frankly, I 1753 01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:32.600 think the reason people miss the Attitude era is because 1754 01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:36.119 Stone Cold, Steve Austin and the Rock and DX were 1755 01:20:36.199 --> 01:20:38.880 awesome at what they did. And the way to bring 1756 01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:40.439 that back to the Attitude Era or the part of 1757 01:20:40.479 --> 01:20:42.640 it that made the most the part of the Attitude 1758 01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:47.319 Era that I think was was the main reason people 1759 01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:50.520 really really liked that era is because of the top 1760 01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:54.079 stars and the moment in time in the Monday Night War. Jason, 1761 01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:55.720 your thoughts that you nailed it. 1762 01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:57.600 I mean, it's just it's not going to happen. It's 1763 01:20:57.640 --> 01:21:00.359 just not worth spending too much time to discuss because 1764 01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.640 they're not going to while they're a publicly traded company 1765 01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:07.880 and they have corporate sponsors that want them to do 1766 01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:10.680 business a certain way, and you're not going to run 1767 01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:12.920 the risk of losing all these high paying sponsors and 1768 01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:15.359 hoping you can replace them, because it quite frankly, you're 1769 01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:18.000 just not going to. I mean, they're the most you 1770 01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:21.359 can hope for is when they every year around Wrestle 1771 01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:23.520 Anya time, it seems like they push the envelope. E. 1772 01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:26.560 Bench has even talked about going into PG thirteen territory, 1773 01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:28.960 and I'm fine with that. I Mean, I enjoyed the 1774 01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:31.399 Attitude Air as much as anybody but to see a 1775 01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:35.199 shift like that today, the world has changed too. When 1776 01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:37.439 you and maybe some of it just it's T and a. 1777 01:21:37.600 --> 01:21:38.920 But when you see T and A kind of do 1778 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:41.119 some risk ay things more often than not. As somebody 1779 01:21:41.119 --> 01:21:43.319 who lived through the Attitude era, when I see it now, 1780 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:46.640 it feels trashy. And maybe it was back then a 1781 01:21:46.680 --> 01:21:49.600 little bit, but culture was different. Jerry Springer was red hot. 1782 01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:52.079 It's just things have changed so much since then. 1783 01:21:52.680 --> 01:21:55.039 No great point. I mean it there when I go 1784 01:21:55.119 --> 01:21:57.000 back and watch some old ros now and then from 1785 01:21:57.039 --> 01:21:59.439 the Attitude era, there are parts of it that are awesome, 1786 01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:00.880 and there are art of it, like you said, that 1787 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:06.680 are trashy, tawdry, low class, muddy. I feel dirty afterwards. 1788 01:22:06.920 --> 01:22:08.479 It's not a you know, I mean, that's the worst 1789 01:22:08.520 --> 01:22:10.239 of it. But that was there. You're not gonna see 1790 01:22:10.640 --> 01:22:13.359 ww is just not gonna go there now. They're gonna 1791 01:22:13.359 --> 01:22:14.880 have Nikki saying I wish you died in the womb. 1792 01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:16.479 I mean, you know, it's like you know, I mean, 1793 01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:18.359 I don't think that's not the start of PG. That 1794 01:22:18.479 --> 01:22:21.920 kind of language and cinderblocks being thrown at people. I mean, 1795 01:22:21.960 --> 01:22:23.920 that's something maybe they wouldn't have done when Linda was 1796 01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:27.000 running for office and WWE was trying to erase the 1797 01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:29.000 image that they had. If you if you go back 1798 01:22:29.039 --> 01:22:30.880 and read back issues of the Pros and Torture newsweutter. 1799 01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.439 I put on the cover and I rang the felt 1800 01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:36.279 multiple times. But during the Attitude air, they started pushing 1801 01:22:36.319 --> 01:22:40.079 things more than I thought was beneficial for them, and 1802 01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:42.560 on the cover I wrote a sidebar cover story saying 1803 01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:46.800 it's time to pull back. They're now just being extreme 1804 01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:50.399 out of petulance, out of just the desire to see 1805 01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:51.760 how far they can push. It was bad for business, 1806 01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:53.840 and it was a very short time later they started 1807 01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:56.079 paying a big price for it, with sponsors dropping out, 1808 01:22:56.119 --> 01:22:59.000 bad publicity and that kind of thing. So it's just 1809 01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:02.560 even the attitude are a ran its course, That's not 1810 01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:06.279 what makes wrestling work. I would say for almost everybody. 1811 01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:10.039 Is cool baby faces that you are excited to see, 1812 01:23:10.119 --> 01:23:11.800 when you want to see, when you have a reason 1813 01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:13.159 to root for them, whatever that reason is, you have 1814 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:15.000 a reason to root from in heels that you take 1815 01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:17.479 satisfaction and seeing get shown up, get what they have 1816 01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:21.479 coming and lose and doing it in an athletic, bombastic way. 1817 01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:24.359 But you don't need the r rated content for progrestling 1818 01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:27.119 to work on a large level. Dean Ambrose, as Jose said, 1819 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.319 and I give him, I mean, I give Dean Ambrose 1820 01:23:29.359 --> 01:23:34.439 credit for being attitude like in an era where there's 1821 01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:36.000 a little bit less that he can get away with. 1822 01:23:36.399 --> 01:23:39.560 That said Jason. We've been critical of seth rollins and 1823 01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:42.600 mean Ambrosen some of the kind of childish, almost Benny 1824 01:23:42.680 --> 01:23:45.239 Hill like gits that they've done. I don't know where 1825 01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:49.000 I pulled that out of, but you know, to promote 1826 01:23:49.000 --> 01:23:50.520 their feud. You know, they did go a little Benny 1827 01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:52.000 Hill on us. I expected some of the Benny Hill 1828 01:23:52.119 --> 01:23:54.680 music in the background during a couple of their skits, 1829 01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:57.279 you know where it got kind of slapsticky, and so, 1830 01:23:57.760 --> 01:23:59.560 you know, I mean, he's been hurt a little bit 1831 01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:01.399 by that. I say two, although it doesn't really matter 1832 01:24:01.439 --> 01:24:03.159 because he's going away and he'll come back and be strong. 1833 01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:12.079 I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the 1834 01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:15.079 new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan 1835 01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:18.439 pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and 1836 01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:21.840 noteworthy events dictate and I'm. 1837 01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:24.520 Chris Lansdell join us as we covered the ever changing 1838 01:24:24.600 --> 01:24:27.239 landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era with 1839 01:24:27.439 --> 01:24:28.159 no lack of talent. 1840 01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.720 But I really need to create some new stars. 1841 01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:33.560 You can stream the new seven Stop podcast now from 1842 01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:34.600 Pro Wrestling Talk. 1843 01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:49.319 Yeah, it's just with Dean Ambrose. It's a cool factor. 1844 01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:51.640 I mean, that's what's getting him over. It's not like 1845 01:24:51.760 --> 01:24:54.840 he's getting to do attitude araror material right now. I 1846 01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:57.279 mean he walks the line, but others do as well, 1847 01:24:57.319 --> 01:24:59.960 and it's just clicking for him because of the personality. 1848 01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:02.880 What I want to see if it's not even so 1849 01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:05.880 much the attitude er, it's just pro wrestling in general 1850 01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:08.439 over the years. Give me some babyface characters that do 1851 01:25:08.560 --> 01:25:10.680 have a little bit of attitude, if you will, that 1852 01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:13.520 don't just stand on the stage and watch as the 1853 01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:17.279 authority tears everyone down. Bring back the cool factor to 1854 01:25:17.319 --> 01:25:19.920 the babyfaces, and not just one or two guys, you know, 1855 01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:22.199 have them stand up for themselves a little bit, not 1856 01:25:22.399 --> 01:25:25.199 just be corporate pushovers. Who are you know, just more 1857 01:25:25.239 --> 01:25:27.319 concerned with having a job than doing the right thing. 1858 01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:30.199 Yeah, and sounding like they are reading the script that 1859 01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:32.199 they were given by the corporate writing team. That's the 1860 01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:35.039 new man hired from Hollywood like, you know, I mean, 1861 01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:39.079 that's not pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is Stan Hansen, pro 1862 01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:42.119 wrestling is you know. It's it's that sense of anything 1863 01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:45.039 going to happen, and these are Outlaws, and WWUE has 1864 01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:48.520 pushed back against that so much and the desire to 1865 01:25:48.560 --> 01:25:52.039 be something else other than the winners of the pro 1866 01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:55.600 wrestling battle, the pro wrestling war, and they want to 1867 01:25:55.640 --> 01:25:58.000 be something different, and they want to be higher brow 1868 01:25:58.159 --> 01:25:59.960 and Linda Run you know, Linda is going to be 1869 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:02.920 a senator in WWE's publicly traded and we're on USA 1870 01:26:03.079 --> 01:26:05.399 Network and on and on and on. They want all 1871 01:26:05.439 --> 01:26:08.119 these things and it's I'm not saying that it hasn't 1872 01:26:08.159 --> 01:26:10.079 in some ways worked really well for them, but they 1873 01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:11.560 have to keep their eye on the fact that the 1874 01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:14.680 biggest boom period happened when they had Stone Cold Steve 1875 01:26:14.680 --> 01:26:17.000 Austin as their top guy. And he was a throwback 1876 01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:19.800 to the Outlaws, the guys who you didn't know what 1877 01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:21.199 they were going to say next, and they were anti 1878 01:26:21.319 --> 01:26:23.720 corporate and they didn't Yes he had the T shirts 1879 01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:25.840 and yes there were you know, announcers, but it was 1880 01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:29.479 Jim Ross, you know, counting his catchphrases and stuff like that, 1881 01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:33.079 but Steve didn't feel corporate. I just transcribed for this 1882 01:26:33.119 --> 01:26:37.079 week's Progressing Torture Newsletter Steve Austin from Friday's interview that 1883 01:26:37.359 --> 01:26:39.279 I did with him talking about how he sat down 1884 01:26:39.319 --> 01:26:41.159 with physic man once and they were going over their promo, 1885 01:26:41.239 --> 01:26:45.359 and it's great how Steve relays it. He's like, Vince McMahon, 1886 01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:48.000 I am going to give you the stutter, you know, 1887 01:26:48.039 --> 01:26:50.199 whatever the quote was, and Vince like, I want your 1888 01:26:50.239 --> 01:26:52.640 a promo, Steve, and Steve said to him, I'll give 1889 01:26:52.680 --> 01:26:54.159 you my a promo when I'm in front of ten 1890 01:26:54.239 --> 01:26:56.800 fifteen thousand people and the adrenaline is slowing, you know. 1891 01:26:56.960 --> 01:27:01.520 And too often wrestlers feel like they on air that 1892 01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:04.119 they're just reciting lines they memorized and they're scared to 1893 01:27:04.119 --> 01:27:06.279 screw up because they'll be chewed out afterwards. God forbid, 1894 01:27:06.560 --> 01:27:08.920 somebody put a face up, put their hand in the face, 1895 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:12.159 as Stephanie McMahon like Dusty Rhodes did to say, talk 1896 01:27:12.199 --> 01:27:14.199 to the hand as a way to show up Stephanie. 1897 01:27:14.439 --> 01:27:16.720 And now Dusty hasn't been seen since on TV because 1898 01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:21.159 that wasn't scripted, and that was against the unwritten rule 1899 01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:23.920 that you do exactly what you're told, exactly when you're told, 1900 01:27:24.119 --> 01:27:26.239 you do not use your instinct or improvise, even if 1901 01:27:26.279 --> 01:27:29.439 you're a guy who's drawn more money than all but 1902 01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:32.199 a dozen wrestlers in the past twelve you know, during 1903 01:27:32.239 --> 01:27:34.960 his twenty year round, which was Dusty Rhoades. His instincts 1904 01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:37.960 aren't always great, but you don't want to because you're 1905 01:27:37.960 --> 01:27:40.560 worried about one thing that doesn't work. Take away the 1906 01:27:40.680 --> 01:27:43.079 seven or eight things that on instinct when you're winging 1907 01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:46.000 it do work. And that's frustrating. And I think a 1908 01:27:46.079 --> 01:27:48.039 lot of fans sense that, and I think with Dean Ambrose, 1909 01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:51.760 that's what Jose identifies with, is that stone cold Steve Austin. 1910 01:27:51.960 --> 01:27:55.399 Anything can happen at this moment. Feeling that used to 1911 01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:58.600 be and still could be and should be a dominant 1912 01:27:58.640 --> 01:28:01.279 feeling you have when watching wrestling. How much of this too, waight? 1913 01:28:01.399 --> 01:28:01.520 Is it? 1914 01:28:02.199 --> 01:28:04.800 It's hard for guys to portray an outlaw when they 1915 01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:07.800 live under this microscope in WWE and any little thing 1916 01:28:07.880 --> 01:28:10.800 could get them heat. Oh oh, I think it's a 1917 01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:11.359 huge part of it. 1918 01:28:11.600 --> 01:28:12.199 Yeah, I mean it is. 1919 01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:12.439 Yeah. 1920 01:28:12.439 --> 01:28:17.119 I mean WWE wants a corporate of just their control 1921 01:28:17.199 --> 01:28:19.399 freaks as far as that corporate thing goes, and they 1922 01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:21.479 just want business runs smoothly. They don't want anyone to 1923 01:28:21.520 --> 01:28:23.880 get too big so that they can't handle them. They 1924 01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:26.640 just want a headache free existence. But everything gets kind 1925 01:28:26.680 --> 01:28:30.159 of the edges get softened and rounded off. There's not 1926 01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:32.720 sharp edges to the product and to the talent, and 1927 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:34.800 they pay a price for that. And I think they've 1928 01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:37.039 gone too far in one direction. I understand wanting that. 1929 01:28:37.600 --> 01:28:39.239 You know, who wants to worry about the phone call 1930 01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:42.479 ring ringing because you know your top star is upset 1931 01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:45.000 with you, or who worries about somebody saying the wrong 1932 01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:48.600 thing because you've loosened up the scripting of matches and promos. 1933 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:50.680 I mean, I get that, but I think you're in 1934 01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:52.800 the pro wrestling business and it's beneficial to you to 1935 01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:55.640 accept some of that that that's some of that comes 1936 01:28:55.680 --> 01:28:56.359 with the territory. 1937 01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:58.000 Definitely all right. 1938 01:28:58.520 --> 01:29:00.399 I don't think we went to this. We're going back 1939 01:29:00.399 --> 01:29:03.119 to Georgia for seven eight. Please state your name of 1940 01:29:03.159 --> 01:29:03.960 the city you're calling from. 1941 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.439 Hey, how's it going, guys? This is manual calling from 1942 01:29:07.439 --> 01:29:07.960 making Georgia. 1943 01:29:08.039 --> 01:29:10.039 Hey, Manuel, thanks for calling. What have you got for us? 1944 01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:11.960 Uh? 1945 01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:14.840 Just kind of I guess the almost tiggybags off the 1946 01:29:14.920 --> 01:29:17.920 whole of kind of the attitude their thing, and of 1947 01:29:18.199 --> 01:29:20.520 Roman reigns and how he may or may not be 1948 01:29:20.600 --> 01:29:23.279 being groomed to be the next top guy. Yeah, I 1949 01:29:23.399 --> 01:29:25.279 remember a time and it was my favorite time in 1950 01:29:25.399 --> 01:29:28.119 professional wrestling in w W was after Stone Cold on 1951 01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:30.920 the Rock kind of made their exit, but before John 1952 01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:33.960 Cena became the guy where I just remember like just 1953 01:29:34.119 --> 01:29:36.800 really good wrestling and if there was no there was 1954 01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:39.159 no top one guy that I can remember, but they 1955 01:29:39.199 --> 01:29:42.279 were always like top heel champions and then you always 1956 01:29:42.359 --> 01:29:45.640 had like all the baby faces chasing them, and maybe 1957 01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:47.880 they didn't get great decisive wins as far as the 1958 01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:50.239 heels go, but they always kept the feuds going to 1959 01:29:50.279 --> 01:29:51.840 where you get at least three months out of a 1960 01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:54.399 feud and then they move on to the next babyface, 1961 01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:56.760 next baby For one guy that got that opportunity at 1962 01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:58.920 the Rumble and he took out the heel, then another 1963 01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:00.760 hill would come along and take the title from him 1964 01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:02.640 and you could kind of start all over, and I 1965 01:30:02.760 --> 01:30:04.359 just remember getting great matches. 1966 01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:04.359 Out of that. 1967 01:30:04.760 --> 01:30:06.840 So I guess my question is, why does there have 1968 01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:09.960 to be a top baby face like, why does Romeanraines 1969 01:30:10.039 --> 01:30:13.199 have to be the next after Johnsen? Why can't they 1970 01:30:13.319 --> 01:30:16.840 just have top stars or top heels and top faces 1971 01:30:17.640 --> 01:30:19.520 may or are they content on having won? 1972 01:30:19.880 --> 01:30:22.079 Sure? No, we know your question will cover it out. 1973 01:30:22.079 --> 01:30:26.560 I want to ask you what matches or heels did 1974 01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:29.880 you like in that zone between the attitude era and 1975 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:32.439 sena emerging, Like what, give me a couple of specifics 1976 01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:34.279 tw or three specifics of what you remember liking. 1977 01:30:36.039 --> 01:30:38.279 I remember always waiting to see who would finally beat 1978 01:30:38.319 --> 01:30:41.319 Triple H when they had the old WCW belt, the 1979 01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:43.800 world title, it's like the top title, and I think 1980 01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:46.680 W champion who I would always be hoping that somebody 1981 01:30:46.680 --> 01:30:49.279 would take him out. And I mean they weren't the 1982 01:30:49.399 --> 01:30:52.079 top people in the company, but they had the titles 1983 01:30:52.600 --> 01:30:54.560 and the people who went after them, I mean they 1984 01:30:54.640 --> 01:30:57.560 made they made the storylines make sense to where whatever 1985 01:30:57.640 --> 01:30:59.680 baby faces they were facing at that pay per view, 1986 01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:02.479 he wanted to see that baby face win. You know, 1987 01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:04.600 there were two guys who you wanted to see them 1988 01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:07.119 dot down and they would win by usually cheating. It 1989 01:31:07.159 --> 01:31:10.199 would hardly ever clean, but it made you feel good 1990 01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.800 about seeing two or three pay per views with the 1991 01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:14.399 same opponent because you wanted the baby face to get 1992 01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:14.960 that comeback. 1993 01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:17.399 Well, yeah, I've got something to say, and I'll throw 1994 01:31:17.399 --> 01:31:18.840 it to Jason first and get his thoughts on that. 1995 01:31:18.920 --> 01:31:22.560 I mean, there are there's two classic formulas, Jason, A 1996 01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:24.960 bunch of baby faces chasing a top heel and a 1997 01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:27.960 bunch of heels chasing a top baby face. And those 1998 01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:30.640 are two formulas that promoters have used over the years. 1999 01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:34.439 And one of them Bench Leans heavily toured and had 2000 01:31:34.520 --> 01:31:37.399 you asked me which who I thought he was talking about, 2001 01:31:37.399 --> 01:31:39.600 I would have said Triple H because he really has 2002 01:31:39.760 --> 01:31:43.119 been the exception. I mean it's you go back to 2003 01:31:43.159 --> 01:31:46.479 the key champions in WWE, the ones that have staying 2004 01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:48.680 power and that people talk about. It really is the 2005 01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:53.119 baby faces by and large, and the Bench is he's 2006 01:31:53.239 --> 01:31:55.520 just he sees it that way and he's been very 2007 01:31:55.560 --> 01:31:58.840 successful with that approach, having that top baby face star, 2008 01:31:58.920 --> 01:32:02.039 whether it's been Hogan or Austin or Rock or Savage, 2009 01:32:02.119 --> 01:32:04.880 And I mean some guys have been more successful and 2010 01:32:05.039 --> 01:32:09.439 obviously seen. And now you want to have that poster 2011 01:32:09.560 --> 01:32:11.720 boy for your company, the guy that's going to sell 2012 01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:14.239 a lot of merchandise. I wish they would shake up 2013 01:32:14.279 --> 01:32:16.800 the formula a little bit more than they do. But 2014 01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:19.159 at least right now you have Rock Lesner. We'll see 2015 01:32:19.159 --> 01:32:22.000 how far they go with it. But it does feel 2016 01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:25.079 it does start to feel a little bit too predictable 2017 01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:27.640 when they when they take that approach way. But it's 2018 01:32:27.680 --> 01:32:30.119 hard to argue with the with the track record of success. 2019 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:33.359 And the thing is is if Roman Reigns doesn't catch fire, 2020 01:32:33.439 --> 01:32:40.000 it doesn't mean that it was the wrong goal to have, right, 2021 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:42.960 you know, I mean, I you know, I think about this. 2022 01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:45.000 Going back to the NBA for a second. It's so 2023 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:49.159 easy for people to jump all over gms for not 2024 01:32:49.880 --> 01:32:53.920 making finding that GEM in the mid first round. You 2025 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:55.880 can they have about the NFL too, but the mid 2026 01:32:55.960 --> 01:32:58.840 first round or that second round pick. And to me, 2027 01:32:59.000 --> 01:33:00.840 when you have a GM who does it over and 2028 01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:03.319 over again, that GM should get a lot of credit. 2029 01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:05.640 But it doesn't mean every other GM is an idiot. 2030 01:33:05.680 --> 01:33:08.640 And there are busts. And what you have to do 2031 01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:10.680 is you have to go back and look at that 2032 01:33:10.920 --> 01:33:14.560 moment in time on Draft night, What did you, as 2033 01:33:14.680 --> 01:33:18.479 an NBA reporter or an NBA fan say about the 2034 01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:22.199 draft order at that moment in time. You don't get 2035 01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:25.800 to go two years later and go, I'm blaming this 2036 01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:27.920 GM because this guy was a bust and this guy 2037 01:33:28.119 --> 01:33:30.840 picked two spots later turned into a superstar. This GM 2038 01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:33.640 is horrible because there's a lot of gms. There's a 2039 01:33:33.680 --> 01:33:36.680 lot of GMS who pass up these guys who are 2040 01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:39.399 late round picks. That's what makes them late first round 2041 01:33:39.439 --> 01:33:42.079 or early second round picks, because almost every GM in 2042 01:33:42.119 --> 01:33:44.840 the league passes them by picking other people who end 2043 01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:47.920 up flaming out. So it doesn't mean that with the 2044 01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:50.319 information you have at the moment, you didn't make a 2045 01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:53.960 reasonably a reasonable call that a lot of people thought, yeah, 2046 01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.079 that might work out, but there's gonna be one out 2047 01:33:56.119 --> 01:33:58.640 of twelve people in the mid to late first round, 2048 01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:00.640 you know, late in the first roun, but one out 2049 01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:02.800 of twelve it's going to turn into a rotation player 2050 01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:06.439 and occasionally a star. That's going to happen. And if 2051 01:34:06.520 --> 01:34:08.399 one GM does it over and over again, then they 2052 01:34:08.439 --> 01:34:10.600 deserve credit, But not every other GM should be called 2053 01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:12.399 an utter failure because they didn't get that one out 2054 01:34:12.439 --> 01:34:15.920 of twelve pick that ten other gms missed out on either. 2055 01:34:16.279 --> 01:34:18.640 With Roman Reigns bringing it back to wrestling, he was 2056 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:20.520 a good first round draft pick. He was a good 2057 01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:23.760 guy to pick. I don't disagree with looking at him 2058 01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:28.279 and apparently knowing him outside of the ring. People who 2059 01:34:28.279 --> 01:34:29.880 know him outside of the ring they go this guy 2060 01:34:29.960 --> 01:34:33.079 has that in factor. I trust Sean Waltman's judgment when 2061 01:34:33.119 --> 01:34:35.760 it comes to evaluating talent, and he was somebody who 2062 01:34:35.840 --> 01:34:37.399 he says he was one of the first people, maybe 2063 01:34:37.439 --> 01:34:41.600 the first person to say to Hunter this, keep your 2064 01:34:41.640 --> 01:34:44.520 eye on this guy. You know, protect him, build him up. 2065 01:34:45.399 --> 01:34:47.479 So if Roman Rags doesn't work out, it doesn't mean 2066 01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:48.840 it was a wrong choice to go with him. It 2067 01:34:48.920 --> 01:34:50.800 just means there was a chance it might not work out, 2068 01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:53.760 and that happened to occur. And it may not even 2069 01:34:53.800 --> 01:34:55.920 be Roman Raine's fault. It could now be the fault 2070 01:34:55.960 --> 01:34:59.800 of the promoters for not featuring him in the right way, 2071 01:35:00.159 --> 01:35:03.800 not giving him the slack or giving him the confidence 2072 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:06.800 to go do his own thing, instead of following this 2073 01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:10.199 really tight script of saying very little and only doing 2074 01:35:10.279 --> 01:35:13.880 a few signature moves and underestimating the audience's ability to 2075 01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:16.039 deal with a real person, instead of this kind of 2076 01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:19.760 cardboard cutout of a superstar. So I don't know, I mean, 2077 01:35:19.800 --> 01:35:21.840 there's a long winding road back to the original question, 2078 01:35:21.960 --> 01:35:25.039 I guess, but with Roman and Reins, he's I think 2079 01:35:25.119 --> 01:35:28.640 he's a good guy to be pushing. And the fact 2080 01:35:28.680 --> 01:35:30.960 that we're pointing out that he's not catching fire right 2081 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:33.199 now and the crowds aren't going completely crazy for him 2082 01:35:33.279 --> 01:35:34.920 like they have they did see him Punk a couple 2083 01:35:34.920 --> 01:35:37.039 of years ago and Daniel Bryant one year ago. That 2084 01:35:37.039 --> 01:35:39.239 doesn't mean he's a failure. It just means right now 2085 01:35:39.279 --> 01:35:42.760 in the process, Jason, he's not where WWE ideally would 2086 01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:43.239 want him to be. 2087 01:35:43.439 --> 01:35:45.880 But there's like you say, there's still time, and you 2088 01:35:45.920 --> 01:35:48.159 wouldn't want him to be peaking now either. You want 2089 01:35:48.239 --> 01:35:50.720 that peak to come during Wrestle Nani a season, ideally 2090 01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:54.039 at Wrestle Nania, you know you and extended beyond that 2091 01:35:54.119 --> 01:35:56.319 of course, but you wouldn't want this guy to be 2092 01:35:56.439 --> 01:35:58.199 on fire right now. And then we're rely like is 2093 01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:01.479 it gonna last until me? So maybe that's part of 2094 01:36:01.520 --> 01:36:05.720 their mindset too. Is taking the slower approach now doesn't 2095 01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:08.479 doesn't mean there's not deficiencies in his game, but they're 2096 01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:12.279 they're they're booking approach to this might be okay, let 2097 01:36:12.359 --> 01:36:14.720 him get that first win over Randy Orton, And you know, 2098 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:17.039 and I have no idea what's coming next for him, 2099 01:36:17.319 --> 01:36:19.399 which is a big question mark because they're so light 2100 01:36:19.479 --> 01:36:23.399 on meaningful heels that other than brock Lesner, it's gonna 2101 01:36:23.640 --> 01:36:25.279 that's gonna be kind of the tricky part for him 2102 01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:28.079 way is finding those opponents so that he can just 2103 01:36:28.199 --> 01:36:31.279 keep taking that step forward. Randy Orton felt, I mean, 2104 01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:33.479 they were able to rebuild Randy enough that it felt 2105 01:36:33.560 --> 01:36:36.760 like something, But who's what do you do next? 2106 01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:41.000 And and you know, speaking of peaking, you what you 2107 01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:43.119 would like to have as a peak like Steve Austin 2108 01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:45.760 that last years, you know, like I mean, of course, 2109 01:36:45.960 --> 01:36:47.960 WW would like him not not so much to peak, 2110 01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:51.239 but to get hot. And and that's yeah, I think 2111 01:36:51.439 --> 01:36:55.479 what you're saying is there. They may think, relax, everybody, 2112 01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:57.560 this is part of a slow build. We're not. I 2113 01:36:57.640 --> 01:36:59.479 know you think we're shoving them down people's throats, but 2114 01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:03.039 really not. But we're just dropping clues that you're much 2115 01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:07.439 more acutely aware of than the average viewer, that we're 2116 01:37:07.479 --> 01:37:10.439 positioning him to be a top guy. But trust us, 2117 01:37:11.000 --> 01:37:13.640 we're dropping these hints and you're making way too much 2118 01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:16.640 out of it. But we plan to peek him at 2119 01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:18.800 the right time, and that's going to be in the 2120 01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:20.960 six weeks leading up to the Rumble, and until then 2121 01:37:21.399 --> 01:37:23.840 we need to kind of hold back a little bit 2122 01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:25.840 and give him a few spots, but not have him 2123 01:37:25.840 --> 01:37:28.800 be cutting these long promos before it's time. So we're 2124 01:37:28.840 --> 01:37:31.560 planning the seeds in the summer here, late summer that 2125 01:37:31.680 --> 01:37:33.600 he's going to be a top guy, crosses paths with 2126 01:37:33.640 --> 01:37:36.800 Seen A, teams up with Scena, Main Events Raw and 2127 01:37:37.239 --> 01:37:39.319 you know, kind of is being protected in a way, 2128 01:37:40.199 --> 01:37:42.000 but it's part of a long term plan that they 2129 01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:44.359 believe will work. There might be a cadence in the 2130 01:37:44.439 --> 01:37:46.840 game plan and they might not be worried at all. 2131 01:37:47.399 --> 01:37:49.199 I'm a little worried Jason, because I think with a 2132 01:37:49.279 --> 01:37:51.239 type of push that they have given him, the crowd 2133 01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:54.119 reaction should be stronger right now. I think that the 2134 01:37:54.279 --> 01:37:57.159 tour in Australia, we got correspondent reports saying the pop 2135 01:37:57.199 --> 01:37:59.359 he's getting right now is nothing like what Seampunk got 2136 01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:01.239 two years ago, nothing like what Daniel Brian got a 2137 01:38:01.319 --> 01:38:04.359 year ago, and that makes me worried. But Rains has 2138 01:38:04.479 --> 01:38:07.640 a great look, great charisma, He's a really good athlete, 2139 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:11.079 and apparently there's more behind that than deer that he 2140 01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:12.960 hasn't shown yet that people who are around him when 2141 01:38:12.960 --> 01:38:14.880 the red light of the camera isn't on have seen. 2142 01:38:14.960 --> 01:38:17.600 And that gives me more confidence too. But I talked 2143 01:38:17.600 --> 01:38:19.800 about the Keller hotline last night for VIP members. He 2144 01:38:19.920 --> 01:38:22.920 needs there's specific things that I talked about and he 2145 01:38:22.960 --> 01:38:24.840 needs to do to connect with the crowd more. And 2146 01:38:25.399 --> 01:38:27.399 there's those things can come in time. I just would 2147 01:38:27.439 --> 01:38:31.680 be getting to them a little sooner. Not well, shit, yep, 2148 01:38:32.079 --> 01:38:32.399 very good. 2149 01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:39.640 You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro 2150 01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:41.600 Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of 2151 01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:43.920 Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check 2152 01:38:43.960 --> 01:38:46.760 out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and 2153 01:38:46.920 --> 01:38:51.159 SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell 2154 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:53.479 you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, 2155 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:56.920 and it'll also analyze key segments and give my random 2156 01:38:56.960 --> 01:39:00.520 thoughts equips on what I'm watching as a airs, So 2157 01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:02.840 check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at 2158 01:39:02.920 --> 01:39:07.760 pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE payperviews. I 2159 01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:10.159 cover those live at pw torch dot com with a 2160 01:39:10.199 --> 01:39:12.840 detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you 2161 01:39:12.880 --> 01:39:15.479 can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw 2162 01:39:15.720 --> 01:39:19.600 Torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling, and more. Check 2163 01:39:19.640 --> 01:39:22.359 it out pw torch dot com, your first stop for 2164 01:39:22.680 --> 01:39:24.680 TV and pay per views written reports. 2165 01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:37.840 I actually was gonna go back to Believe it or 2166 01:39:37.880 --> 01:39:41.159 Not Dave, the Chris Badwock conspiracy theorist guy, because he 2167 01:39:41.479 --> 01:39:43.159 like and then he hung up a minute ago, and 2168 01:39:43.199 --> 01:39:44.800 I'm frustrated because I wanted to bring him back on 2169 01:39:45.159 --> 01:39:47.840 he Jason. It's so weird. He like calls up like 2170 01:39:48.520 --> 01:39:51.800 we we ran over his dog and a hit run accident, 2171 01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:54.680 like he's angry at me. I think he was quoting 2172 01:39:54.760 --> 01:39:56.680 more you than me in terms of, you know, talking 2173 01:39:56.680 --> 01:39:58.720 about the moonlighting and stuff, because I don't think i'd 2174 01:39:58.800 --> 01:40:01.359 said that, but maybe I did. I'll go back and 2175 01:40:01.439 --> 01:40:03.880 review the tape, but I probably did. Yeah, I just 2176 01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:05.560 I remember you saying something like that, and now he's 2177 01:40:05.600 --> 01:40:07.520 playing me for saying it. It's just like I told 2178 01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:09.079 him go read the back issues. He did, but I 2179 01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:10.680 put him on hold because I do that for almost 2180 01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:12.039 all the colors because when I don't, I pay the 2181 01:40:12.079 --> 01:40:14.239 price there's all kinds of babies crying like earlier in 2182 01:40:14.279 --> 01:40:16.560 the show, and then he gets and then he's just 2183 01:40:16.640 --> 01:40:18.880 kind of he just seems kind of nasty in his disposition, 2184 01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:20.279 and it's just not the tone of the show that 2185 01:40:20.319 --> 01:40:20.520 we have. 2186 01:40:21.760 --> 01:40:25.600 He's decided he's right, and whatever evidence that points to 2187 01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:29.039 something else actually being the case, he's going to ignore 2188 01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:31.880 and tell you that he's right. And in this case, 2189 01:40:32.600 --> 01:40:34.760 I mean, I haven't gone back and read all that 2190 01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:37.000 stuff and sometime either, so you can correct me if 2191 01:40:37.000 --> 01:40:40.079 I'm wrong your way, but I'm guessing he's picking out 2192 01:40:40.239 --> 01:40:43.079 one thing when there was some uncertainty to the situation 2193 01:40:43.359 --> 01:40:46.239 and ignoring what came after it when more facts started 2194 01:40:46.279 --> 01:40:46.600 coming in. 2195 01:40:47.399 --> 01:40:50.159 Right, you know, that's actually much more concisely well put 2196 01:40:50.199 --> 01:40:52.600 than I would have been able to as I was 2197 01:40:52.680 --> 01:40:55.199 processing what he was saying and how to address him 2198 01:40:55.199 --> 01:40:56.720 when he had some time to take a deep breath 2199 01:40:56.760 --> 01:40:57.920 and not be mad at me for daring to put 2200 01:40:57.960 --> 01:41:00.800 him on hold while you and I talked. But yes, 2201 01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:04.359 I mean, and I've just I've lost sight of and 2202 01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:05.880 this is why I wanted to bring him back on 2203 01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:08.760 of what the original premise was when he initially called us, 2204 01:41:09.359 --> 01:41:11.600 because it's like I think he's and again I want 2205 01:41:11.600 --> 01:41:13.079 to put words of his mouse, but it seems like 2206 01:41:13.159 --> 01:41:19.520 he's angry that we don't now sick what is it 2207 01:41:19.600 --> 01:41:24.159 six years later now talk about the fact that the 2208 01:41:24.239 --> 01:41:29.079 official story is different than what really happened. And that's fine, 2209 01:41:29.119 --> 01:41:31.960 but that's probably something you know, when I'm glad he 2210 01:41:31.960 --> 01:41:33.600 went he's reading an old issue with the Torch, I 2211 01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:35.000 you know, I mean, I guess I'm glad about that. 2212 01:41:35.000 --> 01:41:36.920 I asked him to do that. I guess maybe the 2213 01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:38.800 best thing to do if if he does listen back 2214 01:41:38.840 --> 01:41:44.439 to the show is without the the emotions that come 2215 01:41:44.520 --> 01:41:47.359 up when he calls the show. Send an email and 2216 01:41:47.720 --> 01:41:50.279 and to PW Torch Livecasts at gmail dot com. Just 2217 01:41:50.319 --> 01:41:54.039 put in the subject line questions about benwas situation and 2218 01:41:54.840 --> 01:41:57.560 link to what I said and ask me for my response, 2219 01:41:57.640 --> 01:42:01.199 you know, and lay out what what what it is 2220 01:42:01.399 --> 01:42:04.760 that I want to know what he wants from us 2221 01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:07.800 in this situation, because, as I told him when he called, initially, 2222 01:42:08.119 --> 01:42:11.840 nobody covered the Benla story in more depth than we 2223 01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:14.199 did on that than we did on Torch VIP that 2224 01:42:14.319 --> 01:42:17.199 predated the live cast, but and in the Torch newsletter 2225 01:42:17.720 --> 01:42:19.840 and and it was. I mean, that was all I 2226 01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:21.399 did for a couple of months. It's sent at my 2227 01:42:21.479 --> 01:42:24.760 computer eighteen hours a day, practically talking to media members 2228 01:42:24.880 --> 01:42:28.840 and people involved in law enforcement. And we went through 2229 01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:31.239 that whole process of yeah, like you said, Jason, this 2230 01:42:31.359 --> 01:42:34.520 is suspicious. How did somebody apparently know this on Wikipedia? 2231 01:42:34.560 --> 01:42:36.399 Why did it get scrubbed? And we dealt with all 2232 01:42:36.439 --> 01:42:39.359 of that, but there were some questions that were left unanswered, 2233 01:42:39.399 --> 01:42:42.359 and there were some questions that they didn't all not 2234 01:42:42.479 --> 01:42:45.840 everything ended up as clean and crisp as we'd like 2235 01:42:45.960 --> 01:42:49.079 in the end, but the fact that there was something 2236 01:42:49.159 --> 01:42:53.199 on the Wikipedia page that got scrubbed turned out to, 2237 01:42:53.560 --> 01:42:55.359 like I think you said, better than I am here 2238 01:42:55.399 --> 01:43:00.319 in this orelonguitd way, not seeming particularly relevant by the end, 2239 01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:03.640 because there was all this other overwhelming evidence that made 2240 01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:08.479 that seem like either a coincidence or somebody who got 2241 01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:12.600 some information and made some guesses about what might be 2242 01:43:12.680 --> 01:43:17.920 going on and then realized, oh crap, I'm right, and 2243 01:43:18.039 --> 01:43:20.680 then they scrubbed it because it went from a prank 2244 01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:23.600 to kind of scary and it's something that could get 2245 01:43:23.640 --> 01:43:26.439 them in trouble. And I just in the end, I 2246 01:43:27.079 --> 01:43:28.960 haven't ruled it out one hundred percent that there could 2247 01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:30.840 be some real, big twists in the story that we 2248 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:34.680 just glossed over and didn't give enough time. But in 2249 01:43:34.720 --> 01:43:37.680 the end I felt pretty satisfied from talking to a 2250 01:43:37.880 --> 01:43:41.159 lot of people you know, involved in the story with 2251 01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:43.600 a stake in finding out the truth in wrestling and 2252 01:43:43.680 --> 01:43:46.079 out of it. In the end, I felt pretty comfortable 2253 01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:49.560 with the notion that two volatile personalities got into a 2254 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:55.680 domestic situation the stronger of the two snapped and went 2255 01:43:55.760 --> 01:44:02.439 too far in dangerous unique hoefully never revisited. Cocktail of 2256 01:44:02.920 --> 01:44:06.399 a lot of things that were that were mentally wrong 2257 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:09.199 with Chris Benwall at that point in his life, and 2258 01:44:09.319 --> 01:44:11.880 a predisposition that not every human being has to have 2259 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:14.560 those things affect him in that way, and it led 2260 01:44:14.600 --> 01:44:18.720 to a despondent situation on his part that led to 2261 01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:24.239 his rationalizing in his at that point probably clinically insane 2262 01:44:24.279 --> 01:44:27.079 way of thinking that killing his son was the humane 2263 01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:29.600 thing to do, as opposed to having him grow up 2264 01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:32.640 with a father spending his life in jail for murdering 2265 01:44:32.680 --> 01:44:35.600 his mother with you know, whether he had special any 2266 01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:37.880 special leads or not is kind of irrelevant to discussion 2267 01:44:37.880 --> 01:44:39.479 although that certainly was in the media at some point, 2268 01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:43.800 so I just felt satisfied with that. I didn't feel 2269 01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:47.680 that the fact that somebody might have suspected something was 2270 01:44:47.800 --> 01:44:51.520 up first before it became fully official, and put something 2271 01:44:51.560 --> 01:44:55.000 on a Wikipedia page that later got scrubbed, was it. 2272 01:44:55.359 --> 01:44:57.600 I explored those things and talked to people about him, 2273 01:44:57.640 --> 01:44:59.399 but it just never led anywhere, and so I didn't 2274 01:44:59.560 --> 01:45:01.640 spend a lot time since then thinking about it. I mean, 2275 01:45:01.880 --> 01:45:04.439 does that seem to match with your recollection, Jason? 2276 01:45:04.760 --> 01:45:06.800 Yeah, I just don't know where his anger comes, right, 2277 01:45:06.840 --> 01:45:08.680 It's been like distance. The first time he called in, 2278 01:45:08.840 --> 01:45:10.880 he called in off aull of piss and vinegar all 2279 01:45:10.960 --> 01:45:12.000 bent out of shape, and it was. 2280 01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:13.079 Like it was a year or so ago. 2281 01:45:13.199 --> 01:45:16.399 It feels like, yeah, And it wasn't even about anything 2282 01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:19.520 that you or I had written. It was he read 2283 01:45:19.680 --> 01:45:23.000 a book or something someone had written, and yeah, and 2284 01:45:23.079 --> 01:45:25.520 he decided that was true, and for some reason he 2285 01:45:25.600 --> 01:45:27.279 felt the need to challenge us on it. 2286 01:45:27.399 --> 01:45:30.279 And well, I think he got mad because I didn't 2287 01:45:30.319 --> 01:45:33.600 immediately go, oh, really, this is new information, or yes, 2288 01:45:33.680 --> 01:45:35.640 you're right, I'm one hundred percent with you. I think 2289 01:45:35.680 --> 01:45:38.319 he got upset because I did say if you haven't 2290 01:45:38.319 --> 01:45:40.560 read the Torch, you don't really know what you're talking about. 2291 01:45:40.560 --> 01:45:42.079 And I think he took offense at that because he 2292 01:45:42.159 --> 01:45:43.880 had felt like he had done his research on the 2293 01:45:43.960 --> 01:45:47.439 internet sufficiently and could come to us and start telling 2294 01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:49.720 us about a situation. And I just think from the 2295 01:45:49.800 --> 01:45:52.560 position that I was in speaking for me, and how 2296 01:45:52.680 --> 01:45:58.560 much time in my life I spent that year, that 2297 01:45:58.720 --> 01:46:02.199 summer invested in covering this story with no dog in 2298 01:46:02.239 --> 01:46:04.920 the fight. And I mean, I've the I mean it 2299 01:46:05.119 --> 01:46:08.119 just I didn't have any reason to side one way 2300 01:46:08.159 --> 01:46:10.199 or the other. I just wanted to find out the truth. 2301 01:46:10.319 --> 01:46:12.640 And and so to come at me like because he 2302 01:46:12.680 --> 01:46:15.880 had done some internet investigation that he was now providing 2303 01:46:16.239 --> 01:46:19.199 this information to us that we had never heard of 2304 01:46:19.279 --> 01:46:20.479 and we should just agree with him on when he 2305 01:46:20.520 --> 01:46:22.960 hadn't even read my coverage. Just I'm the wrong person 2306 01:46:23.039 --> 01:46:24.560 to call. If you haven't read my coverage of one 2307 01:46:24.560 --> 01:46:26.399 of the biggest stories, probably the biggest story I've ever covered, 2308 01:46:26.399 --> 01:46:27.800 and you haven't read my coverage or listen to my 2309 01:46:29.800 --> 01:46:32.239 audio shows that are all on the VIP website, then 2310 01:46:32.359 --> 01:46:33.920 then go talk to somebody else about it. You know, 2311 01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:35.840 I did my I did my work on this, and 2312 01:46:35.920 --> 01:46:38.560 it's out there, and before we have a conversation about it, 2313 01:46:38.720 --> 01:46:40.399 you got to catch yourself up on on that. 2314 01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:40.680 Now. 2315 01:46:41.000 --> 01:46:43.359 He may have done that, and I probably pulled the 2316 01:46:43.399 --> 01:46:45.880 trigger on him a little fast, but I could just 2317 01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:49.000 tell he was coming at me, like, you know, just 2318 01:46:49.079 --> 01:46:50.520 being kind of nasty, and I just don't want that 2319 01:46:50.600 --> 01:46:51.000 on the show. 2320 01:46:51.239 --> 01:46:54.119 Nah. He's been confrontational since since Call one, you know, 2321 01:46:54.199 --> 01:46:57.439 and it's just it doesn't make for it doesn't make 2322 01:46:57.479 --> 01:46:59.560 for good radio. And it's just like, well, where is 2323 01:46:59.640 --> 01:47:01.720 this com for him? Why are you so obsessed with this? 2324 01:47:02.399 --> 01:47:04.479 Yeah? And you know what, if he wants to be this, 2325 01:47:04.920 --> 01:47:08.199 you know, if he wants Sometimes people, you know, people 2326 01:47:08.199 --> 01:47:10.600 are fascinate with the JFK situation, and I've there's a 2327 01:47:10.640 --> 01:47:12.920 lot of JFK theories out there and this might be 2328 01:47:13.039 --> 01:47:15.279 his thing. I just might answer to him if he's 2329 01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:17.920 listening to this. I'm sure he's I shouldn't say I'm 2330 01:47:17.920 --> 01:47:19.840 sure of anything. He's probably really mad at us right 2331 01:47:19.880 --> 01:47:21.960 now for misinterpreting or whatever. He's mad at us for 2332 01:47:22.159 --> 01:47:24.680 quite so long, You're right, And I'm worried. He's been 2333 01:47:24.720 --> 01:47:26.279 mad at us every single day, even when he doesn't 2334 01:47:26.279 --> 01:47:28.279 call the show, you know, like he's really worked up 2335 01:47:28.279 --> 01:47:30.039 about it, because I'm not. I don't want him to 2336 01:47:30.039 --> 01:47:31.359 be upset at us, and I don't want him to 2337 01:47:31.399 --> 01:47:34.920 be all that angry or feel like he's been disrespected, 2338 01:47:34.960 --> 01:47:37.239 and I think he does, But I just encourage him 2339 01:47:37.239 --> 01:47:40.039 to send me an email where we don't have tone 2340 01:47:40.199 --> 01:47:42.800 and voice and interruptions, and I'll have that send me 2341 01:47:42.840 --> 01:47:46.479 an email, point to a link, and type up what 2342 01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:48.600 he wants from us as far as the story goes. 2343 01:47:48.640 --> 01:47:50.880 And if he sends me an email and presents that, 2344 01:47:50.960 --> 01:47:52.600 he'll probak call the show and I'll put him on 2345 01:47:52.680 --> 01:47:54.319 and forget what his phone number is and maybe we'll 2346 01:47:54.319 --> 01:47:56.560 have another back and forth. But if he's listening, I 2347 01:47:56.680 --> 01:47:59.560 encourage him send me an email PW Torch live cast 2348 01:47:59.560 --> 01:48:02.640 at Gmail, ask me what his question is, tell me 2349 01:48:02.760 --> 01:48:05.680 what he wants from us, and point me to some links, 2350 01:48:05.760 --> 01:48:09.720 and I will refresh my memory and read his links. 2351 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:12.680 And I'm telling you, I'm saying, if he's listening, I 2352 01:48:12.720 --> 01:48:15.279 will do some research on the points that he's making 2353 01:48:15.600 --> 01:48:19.119 and come ata and come back with my opinion on 2354 01:48:19.399 --> 01:48:21.479 whatever he presents to me. It's not going to happen. 2355 01:48:21.560 --> 01:48:23.479 In a productive way on the live cast. When he's 2356 01:48:23.560 --> 01:48:25.119 talking about things that I said when I don't know 2357 01:48:25.159 --> 01:48:27.399 the context of the things that I said, and then 2358 01:48:27.399 --> 01:48:29.520 he's quoting me when he's really quoting you, that's not 2359 01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:33.000 going to be really productive. So anyway wanted to establish 2360 01:48:33.079 --> 01:48:34.199 that or just call in and. 2361 01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:37.840 Be civil and be open minded rather than you know 2362 01:48:37.960 --> 01:48:39.159 everything and we're idiots. 2363 01:48:39.560 --> 01:48:42.640 Well, yes, but I think that's one hundred percent true. 2364 01:48:42.960 --> 01:48:45.800 I'm saying to even help, though, I want to have 2365 01:48:46.119 --> 01:48:50.399 time before he calls to read what he's referencing, whether 2366 01:48:50.479 --> 01:48:52.319 it's something I've written or something that he's found on 2367 01:48:52.359 --> 01:48:54.479 the internet that intrigued him. I'm interested in this story. 2368 01:48:54.520 --> 01:48:55.920 I'm not saying I don't want to ever revisit it 2369 01:48:56.000 --> 01:48:59.039 or learn something new or find out maybe that there 2370 01:48:59.119 --> 01:49:01.680 was something we overlooked and now with some distance in time, 2371 01:49:02.159 --> 01:49:04.800 there's either a new piece of information or an overlooked 2372 01:49:04.800 --> 01:49:07.520 piece of information. I'm I'm I am all for that. 2373 01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:10.479 It's not gonna happen productively when I'm doing a show 2374 01:49:10.520 --> 01:49:13.119 that's predominantly talking about current events and wrestling. That's what 2375 01:49:13.199 --> 01:49:16.159 this show generally is. We talk about the network and 2376 01:49:16.279 --> 01:49:19.039 Raw and Roman reigns and wrestle, any speculation and Summer 2377 01:49:19.079 --> 01:49:22.039 Slim and John Cena and TNA and even at the 2378 01:49:22.119 --> 01:49:24.199 very end of the BFP after show traditionally we talk 2379 01:49:24.199 --> 01:49:28.079 about the Global Force wrestling. Yeah baby, But if you 2380 01:49:28.119 --> 01:49:30.680 want to talk history, then give us a chance to 2381 01:49:30.760 --> 01:49:32.520 do a little bit of research and refresh our memories 2382 01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:34.720 and spend the time that maybe the time he puts 2383 01:49:34.760 --> 01:49:38.079 in deserts, and give us a heads up. Here's an email. 2384 01:49:38.119 --> 01:49:39.920 Here's what I want you to look at. I'm gonna call. 2385 01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:41.319 I want to talk about this, but here's a chance 2386 01:49:41.359 --> 01:49:43.640 for you to look over the materials. And I'm just saying, 2387 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:48.159 despite the tone he takes and the consternation that I 2388 01:49:48.239 --> 01:49:49.920 think he feels dealing with us, and I don't know 2389 01:49:49.960 --> 01:49:53.359 why torches himself with it, but email us first and 2390 01:49:53.439 --> 01:49:55.880 give us a chance and we'll take a look at 2391 01:49:55.880 --> 01:49:57.199 the material and then and then he can come on 2392 01:49:57.239 --> 01:49:59.039 the show and we can talk about it all right. 2393 01:50:00.119 --> 01:50:02.680 The sale right now pw torch dot com, slash go vip. 2394 01:50:02.840 --> 01:50:05.239 You can go back and read and listen to. By 2395 01:50:05.279 --> 01:50:06.800 the way, it's not just reading the back issues of 2396 01:50:06.800 --> 01:50:09.439 the prosing Torch newsletter that covered the Chris benwas situation, 2397 01:50:09.479 --> 01:50:11.479 and we're putting out double issues almost every week for 2398 01:50:11.560 --> 01:50:15.800 a stretch there, with tons and tons and tons of coverage, 2399 01:50:15.920 --> 01:50:19.720 documenting for history, a lot of things that just went poof, 2400 01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:23.439 you know, away on you know, the interview on CNN 2401 01:50:23.680 --> 01:50:26.079 or one of the other news channels. You know, it's airs, 2402 01:50:26.079 --> 01:50:28.560 and then it's gone and it's not there anymore. It's 2403 01:50:28.600 --> 01:50:30.359 it's not something that even somebody bothered to put on 2404 01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:36.640 YouTube and the newspaper articles and the press conferences, and 2405 01:50:37.680 --> 01:50:41.159 I'm first hand reporting that I did in terms of 2406 01:50:41.199 --> 01:50:43.159 working the phone lines and talking to different people involved 2407 01:50:43.199 --> 01:50:45.399 in interviews. Kevin Nash, I did a torch talk with 2408 01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:47.880 talking about the situation and others. That's all in the 2409 01:50:47.920 --> 01:50:50.399 back issues of the Torture Newsletter. And just as fascinating, 2410 01:50:51.079 --> 01:50:52.680 let's go back to the Wake Keller hotline at that 2411 01:50:52.720 --> 01:50:56.920 point and the Bruce mitchelladio show and listen to our 2412 01:50:57.199 --> 01:51:01.119 in depth analysis in real time of that Chris ben 2413 01:51:01.159 --> 01:51:04.680 wa situation from that the night it happened, and we 2414 01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:09.159 talked about it every single day for weeks and weeks. 2415 01:51:09.159 --> 01:51:11.720 I don't remember how much time went by. I was 2416 01:51:11.800 --> 01:51:14.239 waiting for the day that would come where I went 2417 01:51:14.319 --> 01:51:16.479 a full day not talking about it on audio. I 2418 01:51:16.560 --> 01:51:19.079 mean it was, it was, And so all the coverage 2419 01:51:19.159 --> 01:51:21.359 that we did is documented in those back issues and 2420 01:51:21.439 --> 01:51:23.399 in those audio shows. If it's story you're interested in, 2421 01:51:23.479 --> 01:51:26.039 that's one of the reasons you know, the go VIP 2422 01:51:26.279 --> 01:51:28.880 is that the Benoa story, the death of Owen Hart, 2423 01:51:29.239 --> 01:51:33.600 the Montreal screw Job with Brett Hart, the Monday Night Wore, 2424 01:51:33.720 --> 01:51:35.640 the jump of Haul and nash On, and on and on, 2425 01:51:35.840 --> 01:51:38.000 the biggest stories in wrestling history. If you're a student 2426 01:51:38.079 --> 01:51:39.640 of the game and you want to immerse yourself in them, 2427 01:51:39.840 --> 01:51:42.880 whether it's good news or bad news, grim and awful 2428 01:51:43.520 --> 01:51:46.600 like Owen or like ben Wa, or just exciting but 2429 01:51:46.720 --> 01:51:50.239 controversy seal like the Monday Night War. That stuff is 2430 01:51:50.239 --> 01:51:51.800 all there as part of the VIP membership, and we 2431 01:51:51.840 --> 01:51:53.880 got the three thirty three sale going on. When you 2432 01:51:54.039 --> 01:51:56.359 become a member, you instantly gain access to virtually our 2433 01:51:56.479 --> 01:51:58.800 entire library at back issues going back twenty five plus 2434 01:51:58.920 --> 01:52:01.640 years to the late eighties, including all the red. 2435 01:52:08.600 --> 01:52:10.960 Are you a fan of aw looking to sit back, 2436 01:52:11.119 --> 01:52:14.199 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 2437 01:52:14.239 --> 01:52:16.560 your passion. Do you want to be topped off the 2438 01:52:16.640 --> 01:52:18.960 ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the 2439 01:52:19.079 --> 01:52:21.439 heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a 2440 01:52:21.520 --> 01:52:24.560 discussion on what AW is doing right and what they 2441 01:52:24.600 --> 01:52:25.520 could do to improve? 2442 01:52:25.880 --> 01:52:27.319 Then join me, Joel and. 2443 01:52:27.439 --> 01:52:30.000 Me Greg for the all of the conversation Club every 2444 01:52:30.079 --> 01:52:33.800 Friday on the pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw 2445 01:52:33.920 --> 01:52:36.800 torch in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch 2446 01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:39.840 Daily Cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch 2447 01:52:39.920 --> 01:52:43.680 dot com. Find full details on the pw Torchdailycast lineup 2448 01:52:43.960 --> 01:52:46.279 at pw torchdailycast dot com. 2449 01:52:58.319 --> 01:53:01.960 Call you on and how about on Twitter at pro 2450 01:53:02.079 --> 01:53:03.880 wrestling Net leave the dot out of that one at 2451 01:53:03.960 --> 01:53:07.880 pro wrestling Net sounds good. And Sean Waltman and Johnny 2452 01:53:07.880 --> 01:53:10.720 Fairplay have an audio show that people can find that's 2453 01:53:10.720 --> 01:53:12.960 affiliated with prosing dot net. How do they find that show? 2454 01:53:13.159 --> 01:53:17.199 Absolutely? Blog Talk Radio dot com, slash pro wrestling dot 2455 01:53:17.560 --> 01:53:20.520 anyt and you can also find all of our audio 2456 01:53:20.680 --> 01:53:23.039 are all access audio there and if you enjoy that, 2457 01:53:23.439 --> 01:53:26.399 obviously considered membership and for all the details on that, 2458 01:53:26.560 --> 01:53:28.479 visit the main page of Pro wrestling dot net. 2459 01:53:29.199 --> 01:53:31.560 Very good, Thank you everybody for joining us once again, 2460 01:53:31.960 --> 01:53:35.000 and we'll go by. Jason. I'll be by probably next Tuesday, 2461 01:53:35.199 --> 01:53:37.880 Pat mctneil tomorrow with Kamala. Thursday, I'll be by with 2462 01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:41.880 Mick Karsh. Friday, James Called will be hosting talking about 2463 01:53:42.279 --> 01:53:45.119 Impact and other things in the wrestling world, wrapping up 2464 01:53:45.119 --> 01:53:48.279 the week in wrestling. And yeah, so I think that's 2465 01:53:48.319 --> 01:53:50.760 about it. So thank you everybody once again for joining us, 2466 01:53:50.840 --> 01:54:22.640 and until next time. Wait Keller signing off. All Right, 2467 01:54:22.680 --> 01:54:24.640 we're now in the VI I P After show portion 2468 01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:27.520 of program and Jason Paul is still with me here. 2469 01:54:28.520 --> 01:54:30.680 We've got some email questions to answer and some other 2470 01:54:30.760 --> 01:54:34.600 topics to cover, including uh uh TNA. In fact, Jason, 2471 01:54:34.640 --> 01:54:38.800 let's let's start with TNA for a second. The announcement 2472 01:54:38.840 --> 01:54:41.199 that they're moving to Wednesdays and that they were renewed 2473 01:54:41.439 --> 01:54:43.880 through the end of the year with Spike TV, is 2474 01:54:44.439 --> 01:54:48.439 is there's still more questions than answers. Obviously, it just 2475 01:54:48.520 --> 01:54:53.680 delayed the answers. So we know Wednesday that they will 2476 01:54:54.000 --> 01:54:56.000 that they're gonna be on Wednesdays now through the end 2477 01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:57.880 of the year, barring a cancelation before that. We know 2478 01:54:57.960 --> 01:55:02.079 the first Wednesday rating it was awful, but not unexpected. 2479 01:55:03.159 --> 01:55:06.079 I sense from your tone talking about it on your 2480 01:55:06.119 --> 01:55:09.159 audio that you're kind of like me, thinking, hey, everybody 2481 01:55:09.159 --> 01:55:09.600 calmed down. 2482 01:55:09.880 --> 01:55:10.039 You know. 2483 01:55:10.199 --> 01:55:12.680 It's like, of course the rating was going to collapse 2484 01:55:12.760 --> 01:55:15.439 because Mike Today was saying it's joined us next Thursday 2485 01:55:15.439 --> 01:55:18.039 throughout the whole show. They didn't have time to promote it, 2486 01:55:18.319 --> 01:55:19.880 and it's a new night. You're going to lose people 2487 01:55:20.359 --> 01:55:21.960 and we don't know where they're going to be. But 2488 01:55:22.039 --> 01:55:24.560 the real test is really you know, one, two, three 2489 01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:25.159 weeks from now. 2490 01:55:26.039 --> 01:55:28.399 Definitely, that's the thing. I mean, it was an ugly 2491 01:55:28.560 --> 01:55:30.600 rating and it was kind of even when you're expecting 2492 01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:32.199 it to be low, it was still kind of a 2493 01:55:32.359 --> 01:55:36.159 oh boy, maybe not that low, but still that was 2494 01:55:36.560 --> 01:55:39.279 so clunky. I mean, that's a sadly what I think 2495 01:55:39.319 --> 01:55:42.079 that's what you get when you put the masterminds of 2496 01:55:42.119 --> 01:55:46.880 TNA and Spike TV together is a switch a change 2497 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:50.760 of nights where you have two advertisements that air during 2498 01:55:50.840 --> 01:55:53.439 Impact and then on the same show you have Mike 2499 01:55:53.479 --> 01:55:55.520 Today telling everyone tune in next Thursday. I mean, it 2500 01:55:55.640 --> 01:55:59.159 was just unreal. This would be a fitting end to 2501 01:55:59.479 --> 01:56:00.560 TNA on Spike TV. 2502 01:56:02.159 --> 01:56:05.880 Well, I yes, and I mean that's just the problem 2503 01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:08.079 with the short notice. I mean, they were just given 2504 01:56:08.119 --> 01:56:10.319 really short notice and they didn't weren't able to go 2505 01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:12.800 in and redub the show, and it led to some confusion. 2506 01:56:12.880 --> 01:56:15.760 And in a way, if I'm CNA, I kind of 2507 01:56:16.199 --> 01:56:19.439 like that because now they can say, it's not our fault, 2508 01:56:19.479 --> 01:56:21.279 it's your fault, Spike. We need some more support. 2509 01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:21.479 Now. 2510 01:56:21.560 --> 01:56:23.319 Spike might not care at the stage of things, but 2511 01:56:23.880 --> 01:56:26.920 what's your best take and best information on the relationship 2512 01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:28.279 right now between T and An and Spike. 2513 01:56:28.800 --> 01:56:31.399 It's I mean, again, it's always the same. It depends 2514 01:56:31.439 --> 01:56:34.119 who's telling the story. I mean, I've just heard so 2515 01:56:34.239 --> 01:56:37.680 many different theories, so many different statements from people about 2516 01:56:37.760 --> 01:56:41.199 what they think is happening and or just what they 2517 01:56:41.319 --> 01:56:44.399 claim is happening. And then you'll hear something conflicting from 2518 01:56:44.439 --> 01:56:48.199 somebody else who claims they have the inside word the 2519 01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:51.000 new stuff that I'm hearing a couple of different things. 2520 01:56:51.279 --> 01:56:55.920 Discovery Network came up, and I believe the observers reporting 2521 01:56:56.000 --> 01:56:59.640 its velocity as the actual network, and that would make 2522 01:56:59.720 --> 01:57:04.199 sense that I believe that's part of Discoveries group. You know, 2523 01:57:04.239 --> 01:57:07.199 they're there group of channels. So I just heard Discovery 2524 01:57:07.319 --> 01:57:09.960 but Velocity, I guess would which would be kind of 2525 01:57:10.039 --> 01:57:13.399 a low end network. Something that I have that I 2526 01:57:13.479 --> 01:57:15.800 didn't know I had held the name came out there. 2527 01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:18.800 One of those that's scary just because of how how 2528 01:57:18.880 --> 01:57:22.479 small the network is. Last week I was hearing from someone, 2529 01:57:22.560 --> 01:57:27.159 and I want to stress again rumor that WGN, presumably 2530 01:57:27.279 --> 01:57:31.600 WG in America was also had some interest in TNA. 2531 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:34.680 I you know, I mean, this happens though this is 2532 01:57:36.680 --> 01:57:38.680 both may be valid, one of them might not be. 2533 01:57:38.840 --> 01:57:40.640 Both of them might not be. There might be nothing 2534 01:57:40.680 --> 01:57:42.960 to it. It's just this is what when when there's 2535 01:57:43.039 --> 01:57:46.359 a desperation kicking in, as I really believe there is, 2536 01:57:46.880 --> 01:57:48.319 there's going to be a lot of rumors. I mean 2537 01:57:48.359 --> 01:57:50.640 these you know yet people depending on jobs, and so 2538 01:57:51.239 --> 01:57:54.039 one guy hears something from somebody that may not even 2539 01:57:54.079 --> 01:57:55.680 have any validity to it. Well, he's going to call 2540 01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:57.439 a friend. He's gonna call a friend, and everybody gets 2541 01:57:57.479 --> 01:58:00.479 their hopes up and you know, hopefully they have something. 2542 01:58:00.680 --> 01:58:04.319 But I tell you, if it's a move to Velocity, 2543 01:58:04.920 --> 01:58:07.199 I mean instead of if they were to not be 2544 01:58:07.239 --> 01:58:09.239 able to strike a deal with Spike and that was 2545 01:58:09.279 --> 01:58:11.800 the best out there, might keep the lights on but 2546 01:58:12.159 --> 01:58:14.600 long term, I don't see that being a viable option less. 2547 01:58:14.640 --> 01:58:17.159 It's just that Velocity, for whatever reason, has a lot 2548 01:58:17.199 --> 01:58:18.239 of money to throw around. 2549 01:58:19.239 --> 01:58:21.760 Well, and that's the thing is the options that I'm 2550 01:58:21.800 --> 01:58:24.239 hearing are not an improvement for TNA. It would be 2551 01:58:24.319 --> 01:58:27.239 a step back. And I mean, yes, they've been preparing 2552 01:58:27.319 --> 01:58:29.640 in a way for like a year for a step back. 2553 01:58:29.720 --> 01:58:32.640 They have been you know, flashing the budget. But I 2554 01:58:32.680 --> 01:58:34.600 think ultimately the best option for them is going to 2555 01:58:34.640 --> 01:58:36.079 be to try to find a way to stay on Spike. 2556 01:58:37.319 --> 01:58:39.119 I think it is at this point. I just because 2557 01:58:39.119 --> 01:58:40.960 I don't know who you're going to do business with 2558 01:58:41.239 --> 01:58:44.439 that January first, there's going to be this opening. They're 2559 01:58:44.479 --> 01:58:46.279 going to create an opening for you. I mean that 2560 01:58:46.399 --> 01:58:49.000 was kind of the concern when they brought in Uta. 2561 01:58:49.640 --> 01:58:51.600 You know, people kind of going back in time, going 2562 01:58:52.079 --> 01:58:54.479 that would be around the time that most networks would 2563 01:58:54.520 --> 01:58:56.880 kind of have their fall schedule in place. They'd want 2564 01:58:56.880 --> 01:58:58.760 to be able to take these things to the upfronts 2565 01:58:58.960 --> 01:59:01.520 and start lining up advertisers and. 2566 01:59:01.560 --> 01:59:02.000 Things like that. 2567 01:59:02.680 --> 01:59:04.840 And so, I mean there are people who really believe 2568 01:59:04.880 --> 01:59:08.199 that TNA was told back at that probably March April, 2569 01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:11.800 somewhere in there whenever they announced that partnership with UTA 2570 01:59:12.000 --> 01:59:15.399 that there was a pretty strong indication at that time 2571 01:59:15.680 --> 01:59:18.640 that they weren't that Spike wasn't interested in bringing them back. 2572 01:59:19.000 --> 01:59:20.880 I mean, but at the same time, you know, Spike 2573 01:59:21.119 --> 01:59:23.760 can change their minds. The fact that they're still carrying 2574 01:59:23.920 --> 01:59:28.560 impact says something I don't put a lot of tremendous 2575 01:59:28.640 --> 01:59:30.920 faith in. It's a sign that they're still negotiating and 2576 01:59:31.000 --> 01:59:32.960 there's still a strong chance. But I can't rule it 2577 01:59:33.000 --> 01:59:33.439 out either. 2578 01:59:35.560 --> 01:59:38.000 What's your I mean, it's I know, it's not a 2579 01:59:38.079 --> 01:59:40.439 high confidence pick. So like picking a super Bowl winner 2580 01:59:40.479 --> 01:59:41.800 at this stage, asked me in a couple of weeks, 2581 01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:43.119 So this is like ask me in a couple months. 2582 01:59:43.159 --> 01:59:46.119 But do you think they're on Spike in January and February? 2583 01:59:46.159 --> 01:59:47.880 Do you think they're in business in January and February? 2584 01:59:47.920 --> 01:59:49.399 Where would you put your ten bucks? 2585 01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:54.319 I think they're in business because I mean, another more 2586 01:59:54.439 --> 01:59:56.319 chpancier was telling the story. But I mean, the most 2587 01:59:56.359 --> 01:59:58.479 consistent thing I've heard is they have like eight to 2588 01:59:58.600 --> 02:00:01.479 ten months they can get by with no Spike TV, 2589 02:00:01.680 --> 02:00:05.319 no network in the United States. They have overseas television deals, 2590 02:00:05.359 --> 02:00:07.560 But I mean it just becomes so tricky. Then you 2591 02:00:08.000 --> 02:00:10.640 have to you know, you have to have tapings for 2592 02:00:10.880 --> 02:00:13.119 these shows that aren't airing here. So how do you 2593 02:00:13.199 --> 02:00:15.199 get the word out to people about these shows? And 2594 02:00:16.159 --> 02:00:18.880 I mean you can do it, and it really slashed 2595 02:00:18.920 --> 02:00:21.520 the budget and everything and just go really low end 2596 02:00:21.600 --> 02:00:25.960 with things. I know they signed the overseas television deals, 2597 02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:27.359 but I just wait, I just kind of look at 2598 02:00:27.399 --> 02:00:31.439 those as if the company goes under, then they go under. 2599 02:00:31.600 --> 02:00:35.720 And I mean, what when I hear multi year agreement, 2600 02:00:35.760 --> 02:00:38.159 it doesn't make me think automatically, hey, t Anda is 2601 02:00:38.199 --> 02:00:39.960 going to be around for all those years. It's just 2602 02:00:40.680 --> 02:00:42.880 I would assume that if there's they wouldn't be the 2603 02:00:42.920 --> 02:00:45.520 first company providing programming to go under, and then the 2604 02:00:45.600 --> 02:00:48.600 network is just kind of left without with some programming 2605 02:00:48.640 --> 02:00:49.239 slot to fill. 2606 02:00:49.319 --> 02:00:51.920 Basically, that's right, they just air three Cops instead of 2607 02:00:52.039 --> 02:00:54.439 just Won in Malaysia, right, you know, I mean they 2608 02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:56.840 can they can manage to work around that if they 2609 02:00:56.920 --> 02:00:59.680 need to. So yeah, I'm not quite sure what to 2610 02:01:00.159 --> 02:01:03.640 what to make of that. You know, the international deals 2611 02:01:03.680 --> 02:01:06.720 don't really add a ton of confidence, but I mean 2612 02:01:06.760 --> 02:01:08.720 it's better than if it's just complete silence. Other than 2613 02:01:08.760 --> 02:01:10.039 Spike and you. 2614 02:01:10.079 --> 02:01:12.199 Know, as far as Spike, I hate to dodge it. 2615 02:01:12.239 --> 02:01:13.880 I just I don't have a great feel for this. 2616 02:01:14.479 --> 02:01:19.520 I mean, when when they're extended, I mean, yeah, they 2617 02:01:20.479 --> 02:01:22.800 may still be negotiating for all we know. I just 2618 02:01:22.880 --> 02:01:26.319 don't know what you're negotiating at this point. What it 2619 02:01:26.399 --> 02:01:28.920 could be a sign that it's been tough negotiations and 2620 02:01:29.079 --> 02:01:31.159 they've just put their close enough that they extended it 2621 02:01:31.279 --> 02:01:33.039 and hopefully they'll be able to strike a new deal, 2622 02:01:33.239 --> 02:01:35.720 you know, before it ends or something like that. That's 2623 02:01:35.800 --> 02:01:38.800 one way of looking at it. The other, I mean, 2624 02:01:39.000 --> 02:01:41.159 it's just that, well, TNA and Spike have had a 2625 02:01:41.279 --> 02:01:43.720 you know, decent relationship over the years, and Spike TV 2626 02:01:43.880 --> 02:01:45.560 might be doing them as solid. It's not like they 2627 02:01:45.600 --> 02:01:47.279 have a lot of programming they put on there. 2628 02:01:48.600 --> 02:01:48.760 You know. 2629 02:01:49.079 --> 02:01:51.960 The tough part for TNA too, is that because they 2630 02:01:52.039 --> 02:01:55.840 have this situation, this partnership with UTA, they old em 2631 02:01:55.920 --> 02:01:58.239 a chunk. You know, it's either ten or fifteen percent 2632 02:01:59.039 --> 02:02:02.560 that they're in whatever deal they get. So they obviously 2633 02:02:02.640 --> 02:02:04.640 have a partner who's motivated to get them the best 2634 02:02:04.680 --> 02:02:09.039 possible deal. That that part's great. But from TNA's perspective, 2635 02:02:09.359 --> 02:02:12.960 whatever the whatever the going rate was last time. It's 2636 02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:15.279 like we're to match that. Well, they actually lose money 2637 02:02:15.399 --> 02:02:17.399 because they owe you know, ten to fifteen percent of 2638 02:02:17.479 --> 02:02:18.199 that to UTA. 2639 02:02:18.960 --> 02:02:23.199 Yeah yeah, all right. Well, I mean I the TNA products, 2640 02:02:23.439 --> 02:02:28.000 I mean, it's not they're not producing a product where 2641 02:02:28.119 --> 02:02:29.920 I think there's a lot of people. I mean, there's 2642 02:02:29.920 --> 02:02:32.399 some people who are as you call them, TNA fanboys, 2643 02:02:32.479 --> 02:02:34.680 you know, the ones who just jump on Twitter at 2644 02:02:34.680 --> 02:02:37.239 any mention of TNA and anything other than positive light. 2645 02:02:37.920 --> 02:02:40.079 But TNA is not rallying a lot of truths, you know. 2646 02:02:40.119 --> 02:02:42.399 I don't think there's a lot of wrestling fans who 2647 02:02:42.520 --> 02:02:45.920 are who we mix with, who are just like, we've 2648 02:02:45.960 --> 02:02:47.479 got to make this work. We've got to find a 2649 02:02:47.520 --> 02:02:49.359 home for TENNA. They have to survive it. They just 2650 02:02:49.399 --> 02:02:51.239 don't have that kind of passion for their product. I 2651 02:02:51.279 --> 02:02:54.560 think they have a soft fan base, and that worries 2652 02:02:54.640 --> 02:02:56.479 me when it comes to the night, the change in 2653 02:02:56.680 --> 02:02:59.439 which day of the week they're on. I think almost 2654 02:02:59.520 --> 02:03:02.479 everybody will come back to Wednesdays. But I do think 2655 02:03:02.520 --> 02:03:05.079 there's some people who are just look at TNA the 2656 02:03:05.159 --> 02:03:08.079 way that I look at you know, some reality TV 2657 02:03:08.199 --> 02:03:10.520 show or sitcom. If I bump into it. I'll watch it, 2658 02:03:10.680 --> 02:03:13.159 you know, I remember liking this show. I'll watch it. 2659 02:03:13.319 --> 02:03:16.399 I've got time here after dinner and to watch. But 2660 02:03:16.479 --> 02:03:19.079 I don't know how many of those people who missed 2661 02:03:19.079 --> 02:03:21.199 out last Thursday are gonna be like, oh, oh no, 2662 02:03:21.319 --> 02:03:23.239 I missed impact. How do I find it and reset 2663 02:03:23.279 --> 02:03:25.880 my DVR and go back to watching it live every week? 2664 02:03:26.119 --> 02:03:28.680 I worry for TNA that those people won't come back 2665 02:03:28.680 --> 02:03:32.119 because I just don't sense that of the one point 2666 02:03:32.239 --> 02:03:34.279 some you know, the one plus million people who watch 2667 02:03:34.359 --> 02:03:37.159 on the peak weeks, that they're super passionate and they're 2668 02:03:37.199 --> 02:03:38.920 just going to follow TNA to any network. 2669 02:03:39.399 --> 02:03:40.840 Yeah, and I'm with you on that. I want to 2670 02:03:40.840 --> 02:03:44.079 clarify too. There's there's PNA fan boys and then there's 2671 02:03:44.119 --> 02:03:46.600 just there's TNA fans. There is a big difference there. 2672 02:03:46.600 --> 02:03:49.199 I mean there's To me, I've just never understood the 2673 02:03:49.239 --> 02:03:53.000 concept of this is my wrestling organization, like it's a 2674 02:03:53.039 --> 02:03:56.079 football team. You know, It's it's wrestling. It's not a 2675 02:03:56.159 --> 02:03:58.760 team sport. You don't have to choose, and some people 2676 02:03:59.000 --> 02:04:03.079 just do. WWE has them too, But obviously, or any 2677 02:04:03.159 --> 02:04:05.039 any group, there's gonna be ring of honor fans like that. 2678 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:08.880 It just there's this there, there's a select few out 2679 02:04:08.920 --> 02:04:13.359 there that, in TNA's case, everything they do is the greatest. 2680 02:04:14.159 --> 02:04:18.000 Everything that everyone else does it pales by comparison to TNA. 2681 02:04:18.600 --> 02:04:21.439 They make a creative change and suddenly the person that 2682 02:04:21.520 --> 02:04:23.439 they were defending is the worst thing ever and this 2683 02:04:23.560 --> 02:04:25.319 new guy's the best. And I mean, to me, it's 2684 02:04:25.399 --> 02:04:28.800 just like I just zone those people out. I mean, 2685 02:04:28.960 --> 02:04:32.520 they don't map, they're they're just there's they're fanboys. I mean, 2686 02:04:32.600 --> 02:04:35.560 that's they've chosen. They've decided that TNA's is. I mean, 2687 02:04:35.600 --> 02:04:39.079 they're like the worst delusional Homer football fan out there, 2688 02:04:39.319 --> 02:04:41.359 you know. I Mean, it's just they've decided that their 2689 02:04:41.399 --> 02:04:43.359 team is the greatest, even if they're one and fifteen 2690 02:04:43.800 --> 02:04:47.119 and everyone else sucks, and they don't deal in reality. 2691 02:04:47.199 --> 02:04:50.399 When you confront like in with a football fan, you 2692 02:04:50.439 --> 02:04:52.359 can point to but your team went one in fifteen. 2693 02:04:53.039 --> 02:04:54.960 In TNA's case, you can point to a number of 2694 02:04:55.039 --> 02:04:56.840 things too, but they don't want to hear it. It's 2695 02:04:56.880 --> 02:04:59.479 just whatever whatever logic you give them, they're just going 2696 02:04:59.560 --> 02:04:59.920 to ignore. 2697 02:05:00.560 --> 02:05:03.319 Yeah, yep, no, well put all right, let's go, let's 2698 02:05:03.359 --> 02:05:05.760 go to our next an email question here, let's be 2699 02:05:05.800 --> 02:05:08.680 ifpmember Tony from Las Vegas. He said, I'm kicking myself. 2700 02:05:08.680 --> 02:05:10.119 I knew I had a question for Steve Bustin but 2701 02:05:10.119 --> 02:05:11.800 didn't write it down or forgot to ask him on Friday. 2702 02:05:11.840 --> 02:05:13.199 But I'm gonna ask you and Jason. 2703 02:05:13.000 --> 02:05:15.560 So why not exactly? 2704 02:05:15.560 --> 02:05:17.439 I was gonna say, you're ready to stand in for Steve? 2705 02:05:18.439 --> 02:05:19.720 I know the time he does that add up? But 2706 02:05:19.720 --> 02:05:22.079 if Bradshaw were in his JBL character prime in nineteen 2707 02:05:22.159 --> 02:05:26.279 ninety eight or nineteen ninety nine, could he or could 2708 02:05:26.319 --> 02:05:28.760 he might have had an interesting rivalry with Stone Cold. 2709 02:05:28.840 --> 02:05:31.359 I like the idea of the beer swell in Texas 2710 02:05:31.399 --> 02:05:34.800 redneck against the big rich Texan douchebag. Plus the JBL 2711 02:05:34.800 --> 02:05:36.800 gimmick would have worked well with Vince at the time 2712 02:05:36.880 --> 02:05:39.439 in my opinion. Thanks for your hard work, guys, Ambrose 2713 02:05:39.479 --> 02:05:41.720 for usum A thirty two, that's a whole other issue. 2714 02:05:42.319 --> 02:05:44.239 What do you think Jason JBL against Don't Cold? 2715 02:05:44.720 --> 02:05:47.960 Oh hell yeah, that's the best I can do. Yeah, yeah, 2716 02:05:48.000 --> 02:05:51.640 that would have absolutely. I mean it's just I guess 2717 02:05:51.720 --> 02:05:54.039 the tough part there. Does it become a little too 2718 02:05:54.119 --> 02:05:56.000 close to a Vince? You know? That's the only thing 2719 02:05:56.359 --> 02:05:59.000 just because JBL's character was the rich guy and so 2720 02:05:59.159 --> 02:06:02.760 maybe wouldn't have been perfect, but there certainly were points 2721 02:06:02.800 --> 02:06:04.960 where you could have done something with Jblan Steve Auston 2722 02:06:05.039 --> 02:06:05.600 made some money. 2723 02:06:06.199 --> 02:06:09.680 Yeah, and I like the idea of contrasting Texas personalities, 2724 02:06:10.560 --> 02:06:12.479 and the promos would have been phenomenal. It'ld have been Well, 2725 02:06:12.640 --> 02:06:14.159 we'll try to remember to ask that to Steve next 2726 02:06:14.199 --> 02:06:16.279 time he's on the show. But yeah, I think it 2727 02:06:16.279 --> 02:06:18.880 could have worked and they could have made money, and yeah, yeah, 2728 02:06:18.880 --> 02:06:19.840 I don't see anything wrong with that. 2729 02:06:21.479 --> 02:06:23.000 Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to 2730 02:06:23.039 --> 02:06:26.439 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. 2731 02:06:26.720 --> 02:06:31.000 Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. 2732 02:06:31.319 --> 02:06:34.079 It's twelve pages every week, packed with my TV reports, 2733 02:06:34.119 --> 02:06:36.640 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 2734 02:06:36.720 --> 02:06:38.920 the top story of the week, our pay per view 2735 02:06:39.039 --> 02:06:42.680 roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns 2736 02:06:42.720 --> 02:06:46.760 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and 2737 02:06:46.960 --> 02:06:50.680 Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. 2738 02:06:51.079 --> 02:06:54.680 PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break 2739 02:06:54.760 --> 02:06:57.920 from screen time and settle in every week with a 2740 02:06:57.960 --> 02:07:00.960 Megado suppressling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 2741 02:07:01.039 --> 02:07:04.319 newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two. 2742 02:07:04.880 --> 02:07:07.319 You can get a full year of home delivery for 2743 02:07:07.520 --> 02:07:10.520 just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight 2744 02:07:10.560 --> 02:07:14.760 week trial subscription pw toorch dot com slash paper copy. 2745 02:07:19.800 --> 02:07:24.039 All right, Oh, what about Dean Ambrose RESTMENTA thirty two 2746 02:07:24.560 --> 02:07:27.199 is there? I think we sort of touched on it, 2747 02:07:27.279 --> 02:07:29.199 but is there a chance Dean Ambrose is the guy 2748 02:07:29.239 --> 02:07:32.399 who they decide to win the Rumble and face brock 2749 02:07:32.640 --> 02:07:35.000 as this You know, can you imagine Dean Ambrose selling 2750 02:07:35.039 --> 02:07:37.039 tickets from media thirty two and you know, you go 2751 02:07:37.119 --> 02:07:40.079 into his personality and his and his voice and you 2752 02:07:40.239 --> 02:07:42.960 just don't overscript him and let him sell the match 2753 02:07:43.039 --> 02:07:46.680 and sell him as the crazy guy who's just crazy 2754 02:07:46.840 --> 02:07:50.680 enough to to take out to take out brock Lesnar 2755 02:07:50.680 --> 02:07:52.239 when nobody else could if. 2756 02:07:52.199 --> 02:07:56.000 He really really catches fire. And you know, that's what 2757 02:07:56.079 --> 02:07:57.520 I think is going to have to happen. I really 2758 02:07:57.560 --> 02:07:59.600 do think they're held meant on Roman range right now, 2759 02:08:00.159 --> 02:08:02.319 and it's going to take something big in order for 2760 02:08:02.399 --> 02:08:04.840 them to stray from that, and if it's Ambrose just 2761 02:08:04.920 --> 02:08:08.800 getting over like at Austin levels, well then they're not 2762 02:08:08.880 --> 02:08:11.159 probably not gonna have a choice. But Daniel Bryan got 2763 02:08:11.199 --> 02:08:14.920 over to a ridiculous degree and they just fought that 2764 02:08:15.039 --> 02:08:17.680 every step of the way. It seems so with Ambrose, 2765 02:08:18.119 --> 02:08:20.720 I think they probably have him pegged as being the 2766 02:08:20.800 --> 02:08:24.079 cool guy for now. Long term, they've probably seen him 2767 02:08:24.079 --> 02:08:26.039 as a guy who turns on Roman Reigns and I've 2768 02:08:26.079 --> 02:08:28.000 said for a while, not a bad spot to be, 2769 02:08:28.239 --> 02:08:32.760 you know, this era's Roddy Piper to you know, to 2770 02:08:33.239 --> 02:08:35.199 Roman rains Hogan. I guess, I mean it's it's not 2771 02:08:35.319 --> 02:08:38.319 the perfect comparison, but if that can you know, between 2772 02:08:38.399 --> 02:08:42.000 him and Rawlins that I think could be a good 2773 02:08:42.039 --> 02:08:44.640 spot for Ambrose. It's not going to be base of 2774 02:08:44.720 --> 02:08:49.039 the company, top guy that people want unless something really clicked. 2775 02:08:49.680 --> 02:08:53.720 You don't hear the negative grumbling from people about Ambrose 2776 02:08:53.760 --> 02:08:56.439 that you do that we did Daniel Bryan. But we're 2777 02:08:56.479 --> 02:08:58.600 also not at that point where it's just like people 2778 02:08:58.800 --> 02:09:01.880 are really against the idea and really you know, just 2779 02:09:01.960 --> 02:09:05.000 demanding that Dean Ambrose become the guy in WWE We're 2780 02:09:05.079 --> 02:09:08.239 hearing it from a certain portion of the fan base. 2781 02:09:08.279 --> 02:09:10.039 But like you said earlier, I really think it's kind 2782 02:09:10.079 --> 02:09:12.479 of the the hardcore fan doesn't mean the casual fans 2783 02:09:12.479 --> 02:09:14.199 aren't into Ambrose, but I don't know that there's this 2784 02:09:14.399 --> 02:09:16.439 demand for him like there was Daniel Bryant. 2785 02:09:17.720 --> 02:09:19.239 Global Force Wrestling Jason. 2786 02:09:19.359 --> 02:09:20.680 Yeah, finally you brought it up. 2787 02:09:20.720 --> 02:09:22.720 It math did well. We're at the end here. We 2788 02:09:22.800 --> 02:09:25.800 went long on the lifecast parts, so you know we're 2789 02:09:25.800 --> 02:09:28.079 past to our mark here. But I mean we got 2790 02:09:28.159 --> 02:09:30.399 to mention Global Force Wrestling. It's becoming it's kind of 2791 02:09:30.439 --> 02:09:32.159 becoming a tradition. I'm not sure it'll be every week. 2792 02:09:32.199 --> 02:09:33.479 We don't have a streak. I think we did miss 2793 02:09:33.600 --> 02:09:37.159 one week recently. But they announced another international signing. Do 2794 02:09:37.399 --> 02:09:38.159 you remember the country? 2795 02:09:38.600 --> 02:09:38.720 Oh? 2796 02:09:39.119 --> 02:09:39.479 Do you bet? 2797 02:09:39.520 --> 02:09:39.680 I do. 2798 02:09:39.760 --> 02:09:41.000 I've got it right here in front of me. P 2799 02:09:41.279 --> 02:09:45.640 WA Australia out of Sydney, Wrestle Clash out of Melbourne, 2800 02:09:46.079 --> 02:09:50.680 Riot City Wrestling out of Adelaide, Explosive Wrestling out of Perth, 2801 02:09:51.039 --> 02:09:54.119 and Impact Pro out of Auckland, New Zealand. See it's 2802 02:09:54.159 --> 02:09:57.079 not just Australia, it's also New Zealand. They now have 2803 02:09:57.199 --> 02:10:01.359 partnerships in Mexico, Japan. England, Ireland, In Germany, Australia and 2804 02:10:01.439 --> 02:10:03.600 New Zealand. The only thing missing from like the old 2805 02:10:03.640 --> 02:10:06.199 AWA intro seems to be Canada and Poland. 2806 02:10:06.760 --> 02:10:11.239 Oh the Awa intro that Oh, I just I think 2807 02:10:11.279 --> 02:10:12.560 I want that played at my funeral. 2808 02:10:13.079 --> 02:10:17.399 Mexico, Poland, Japan the greatest professional wrestling all right anyway. 2809 02:10:17.199 --> 02:10:19.399 And and the music it just gives me the chills, 2810 02:10:19.439 --> 02:10:22.199 you know. And it was so low fi. You know, 2811 02:10:22.279 --> 02:10:23.800 it's like they had played the same tape over and 2812 02:10:23.880 --> 02:10:25.720 over again every week, or it was like you know, 2813 02:10:26.520 --> 02:10:30.359 an old uh you know, multi dubbed wrestling tape, you 2814 02:10:30.439 --> 02:10:33.720 know where it was, you know, so fuzzy and and 2815 02:10:34.399 --> 02:10:35.920 you know, just it's just I don't know, it just 2816 02:10:36.039 --> 02:10:41.560 sounded authentic and gritty and legendary and scary and Twilight 2817 02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:44.079 zony and like this is a big deal. I don't know, 2818 02:10:44.239 --> 02:10:46.279 it's just all those emotions as an eight year old 2819 02:10:46.399 --> 02:10:47.359 hearing it for the first time. 2820 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:50.000 Did they really go with Poland? Or am I just 2821 02:10:50.079 --> 02:10:51.239 making that up? I don't even remember. 2822 02:10:51.319 --> 02:10:54.279 Yeah, yeah, Poland was there, Okay, Yeah, definitely, yeah. 2823 02:10:54.359 --> 02:10:56.439 They must have. I had Ivan Putski at one time, 2824 02:10:56.479 --> 02:10:58.000 because I don't know how many other wrestlers have been 2825 02:10:58.039 --> 02:10:59.720 built from poland that's true. 2826 02:10:59.800 --> 02:11:04.079 Yeah, yes, so anyway, I mean, I don't know, we 2827 02:11:04.199 --> 02:11:06.680 kind of mock them. And as you were talking about 2828 02:11:06.720 --> 02:11:09.199 on your Memoradio, Jason, you know, it's not just running 2829 02:11:09.239 --> 02:11:11.640 a show that's going to make them legit. It's a 2830 02:11:11.680 --> 02:11:13.920 good step forward, you know, if they actually write a 2831 02:11:13.920 --> 02:11:15.960 paycheck to a wrestler, which they have yet to do 2832 02:11:16.199 --> 02:11:20.479 to the best of my knowledge. It I do think 2833 02:11:20.880 --> 02:11:23.920 there's still a chance that Jeff Jarrett's filming a reality 2834 02:11:24.000 --> 02:11:25.960 series and it's actually going to end up being a 2835 02:11:26.039 --> 02:11:31.800 mockumentary about doing a fake wrestling company. And again, there'll 2836 02:11:31.800 --> 02:11:33.399 be a lot of people out to strangle him, you know, 2837 02:11:33.439 --> 02:11:35.840 because he you know, he'd be creating these alliances with 2838 02:11:35.920 --> 02:11:39.199 all these wrestling companies worldwide with no intention of actually running. 2839 02:11:39.199 --> 02:11:42.399 But like, there's nothing inconsistent with him doing a mockumentary 2840 02:11:42.680 --> 02:11:45.479 about a globe trotting wrestling promoter with no money and 2841 02:11:45.600 --> 02:11:48.600 no chance in hell of doing anything, just creating a 2842 02:11:48.680 --> 02:11:52.479 buzz through creating paper alliances with a bunch of companies 2843 02:11:52.479 --> 02:11:53.800 nobody's ever heard of internationally. 2844 02:11:54.239 --> 02:11:55.840 You'd be a hell of a final f you to 2845 02:11:55.880 --> 02:11:56.720 the wrestling business. 2846 02:11:57.560 --> 02:11:59.640 Yes, yes, I don't know. I mean I think the 2847 02:11:59.680 --> 02:12:03.319 odds that are very, very, very slim. But in any 2848 02:12:03.359 --> 02:12:05.600 time I say something ridiculous, Bruce is always like I 2849 02:12:05.600 --> 02:12:07.680 can always kind of Bruce Man should be like to 2850 02:12:07.920 --> 02:12:10.119 you know when I'm not with him on audio, to 2851 02:12:10.279 --> 02:12:13.039 be like And this is not one of the it's 2852 02:12:13.079 --> 02:12:16.000 not a mocumentary like Wade Keller dared to bring up. 2853 02:12:17.000 --> 02:12:18.680 I'm not saying it like I seriously think it is, 2854 02:12:18.760 --> 02:12:21.600 but it's it's that ridiculous that it could be. 2855 02:12:22.199 --> 02:12:25.319 But hey, international TV star Robe McManus is behind the 2856 02:12:25.439 --> 02:12:28.359 project now, I mean not financially, but but he's endorsing 2857 02:12:28.439 --> 02:12:31.239 it because Lord knows, Robe McManus has never endorsed a 2858 02:12:31.479 --> 02:12:33.600 losing wrestling promotion that went to Australia. 2859 02:12:34.760 --> 02:12:39.239 Yes, yes, So anyway, I mean, any anything else you 2860 02:12:39.279 --> 02:12:40.840 want to cover or should we end on the Global 2861 02:12:40.840 --> 02:12:41.640 Force Wrestling note. 2862 02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:43.920 Oh gosh, I'm trying to think if there's a So 2863 02:12:44.039 --> 02:12:46.920 you really didn't think Brie was just one of the 2864 02:12:47.000 --> 02:12:48.760 worst acting performances of all time? 2865 02:12:49.920 --> 02:12:50.520 Did I think that? 2866 02:12:51.279 --> 02:12:52.479 You really you didn't think it was? 2867 02:12:53.000 --> 02:12:54.760 Oh no, I think she's awful every week. It just 2868 02:12:54.840 --> 02:12:57.920 wasn't new information for me. No, No, she was. She 2869 02:12:58.039 --> 02:13:00.640 was terrible. I mean she should be asked to cry. 2870 02:13:01.039 --> 02:13:03.359 I thought the whole segment was going to be awful, 2871 02:13:03.439 --> 02:13:05.399 and I don't think the segment was awful. I thought 2872 02:13:06.039 --> 02:13:09.560 NICKI through eighty percent of it was pretty good. And 2873 02:13:09.960 --> 02:13:11.760 I think what I liked about it in contrast to 2874 02:13:11.800 --> 02:13:13.640 what Bruce talked about on Monday's Life cast leading into 2875 02:13:13.720 --> 02:13:17.079 Raw is I think they really differentiated the two characters. Well. 2876 02:13:17.119 --> 02:13:19.079 I think they had differentiating themselves more than Bruce gave 2877 02:13:19.119 --> 02:13:22.359 them credit for on Monday. But I think they really 2878 02:13:22.439 --> 02:13:25.000 differentiate in themselves now where you don't think of them 2879 02:13:25.039 --> 02:13:27.159 as identical twins. They have two distinct personalities, and I 2880 02:13:27.319 --> 02:13:30.439 like the idea that they went down that road of Brie. 2881 02:13:30.520 --> 02:13:32.640 You're seen as a sweet one and I'm the manipulative, 2882 02:13:33.000 --> 02:13:36.079 gold digging, you know one, and yet the truth is 2883 02:13:36.279 --> 02:13:39.720 is your phony and I get a bad rap. And 2884 02:13:40.000 --> 02:13:41.960 I just think that's good because I think Keels should, 2885 02:13:42.359 --> 02:13:45.000 in their mind feel like they're right, and it's the 2886 02:13:45.079 --> 02:13:48.159 fans resent them for the fact that they aren't seeing 2887 02:13:48.199 --> 02:13:50.720 things clearly, They're not seeing reality for what it is, 2888 02:13:51.079 --> 02:13:54.279 and they handle their own truth really poorly, and that's 2889 02:13:54.319 --> 02:13:56.520 what's happening with NICKI. She has her own version of 2890 02:13:56.560 --> 02:13:58.079 the truth, and I think people are going to be 2891 02:13:58.079 --> 02:14:01.119 skeptical that it is actually real, well, that it's actually 2892 02:14:01.439 --> 02:14:03.880 They're gonna think she's disconnected from reality. But even more so, 2893 02:14:04.000 --> 02:14:06.039 they're going to think, even if what you're saying is true, 2894 02:14:07.000 --> 02:14:10.279 the things you've done and said don't aren't justified by 2895 02:14:10.319 --> 02:14:12.479 what you think that reality is. So I like the 2896 02:14:12.560 --> 02:14:14.840 construction of it, and I thought, wow, they've actually, you know, 2897 02:14:14.920 --> 02:14:17.359 that segment did a pretty good job with it. It's 2898 02:14:17.439 --> 02:14:20.479 just yeah, I mean, Bria's awful. I mean, I don't 2899 02:14:20.479 --> 02:14:23.279 even know that. I don't think when people are putting 2900 02:14:23.279 --> 02:14:26.079 in a position to act, to act when they can act, 2901 02:14:26.319 --> 02:14:28.560 I don't even think they come across as particularly likable 2902 02:14:28.600 --> 02:14:30.960 at that point. I think people start just thinking you're 2903 02:14:31.079 --> 02:14:33.399 trying to pretend to be something or feeling something you're 2904 02:14:33.399 --> 02:14:35.800 not feeling. And I actually think people resent phoniness, and 2905 02:14:35.800 --> 02:14:37.680 I think Brice started to come across as actually kind 2906 02:14:37.720 --> 02:14:39.359 of phony in a way that could backfire. 2907 02:14:39.640 --> 02:14:41.640 Oh shay, yeah, that's for sure. And then the other thing, 2908 02:14:41.640 --> 02:14:43.000 I guess you shot out to me about Rob that 2909 02:14:43.039 --> 02:14:45.159 we haven't touched on is See. You know, we talked 2910 02:14:45.199 --> 02:14:47.880 about John Cena and how much they put him over 2911 02:14:48.000 --> 02:14:51.079 and how he's indestructible. Again, what are they doing to 2912 02:14:51.079 --> 02:14:53.560 the Wyatt family? I mean, I was able to kind 2913 02:14:53.600 --> 02:14:55.399 of get over. Okay, they didn't go with Harper and 2914 02:14:55.520 --> 02:14:57.720 rowing his tag jamps and I guess they want to 2915 02:14:57.760 --> 02:15:01.119 go long term with usso's whatever. But now they just 2916 02:15:01.399 --> 02:15:04.399 lose all the time, and bray Wyatt, I mean, Chris 2917 02:15:04.560 --> 02:15:08.520 Eric goes back seemingly to elevate bray Wyatt all of 2918 02:15:08.560 --> 02:15:10.359 a sudden. I don't even know if the match is 2919 02:15:10.439 --> 02:15:13.560 happening at this point, the third match at night of Champions, 2920 02:15:13.640 --> 02:15:15.880 and maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But in the 2921 02:15:15.960 --> 02:15:19.119 middle of this they trade wins and it looks like, Okay, 2922 02:15:19.159 --> 02:15:21.319 they're finally gonna start building up bray Wyatt. He's the 2923 02:15:21.359 --> 02:15:23.039 guy who takes the ass kicking from Scena. 2924 02:15:23.119 --> 02:15:25.319 I don't know. No, you're right, and I mean that 2925 02:15:25.399 --> 02:15:26.720 that could have been our headline on the show to 2926 02:15:26.760 --> 02:15:30.880 talk about the Whyatts. You know, Harper not Rowan did 2927 02:15:30.960 --> 02:15:33.840 the job, maybe just to shake up the predictability of 2928 02:15:33.920 --> 02:15:36.880 Rona Is being the designated job or but yeah, absolutely, 2929 02:15:37.600 --> 02:15:39.880 bray Wyatt got sacrificed in a way that I don't 2930 02:15:39.880 --> 02:15:41.760 think was worth it. But even so, even more so, 2931 02:15:41.880 --> 02:15:45.960 if you're gonna sacrifice bray Wyatt, then make a really 2932 02:15:46.079 --> 02:15:48.199 big deal out of the match, and make a really 2933 02:15:48.279 --> 02:15:52.720 big deal out of the outcome, because if you're like 2934 02:15:52.840 --> 02:15:54.520 I don't like the idea of well, Bray's gonna do 2935 02:15:54.560 --> 02:15:56.000 the job because we need a main event, so we're 2936 02:15:56.000 --> 02:15:57.079 gonna have Bray do the job, and we need to 2937 02:15:57.119 --> 02:15:58.600 get over the fact that scene as a maniac. Now 2938 02:15:58.640 --> 02:16:01.000 who's all determined, So you know, Brad's the only guy 2939 02:16:01.000 --> 02:16:02.840 who can draw rating. We can rebuild him up later 2940 02:16:02.880 --> 02:16:04.560 because he's so good on the mic. If that's all 2941 02:16:04.600 --> 02:16:07.520 your rational if you're rationalizing all of that, don't then 2942 02:16:07.720 --> 02:16:10.800 be meek in how you promote it. Promote the hell 2943 02:16:10.840 --> 02:16:12.359 out of it, get a rating. If you're going to 2944 02:16:12.399 --> 02:16:14.359 have Braid do a job, get everything there is to 2945 02:16:14.439 --> 02:16:17.960 get out of Braid doing the job, and so have more, 2946 02:16:18.560 --> 02:16:20.680 have the announcers act more excited about being able to 2947 02:16:20.720 --> 02:16:24.600 see that match, and have the uh the outcome be 2948 02:16:24.680 --> 02:16:27.520 a much bigger deal, like we've never seen brailews like this. 2949 02:16:27.960 --> 02:16:29.880 This is a new This is a new John Scena 2950 02:16:29.960 --> 02:16:32.399 and really get something out of it, make people remember it, 2951 02:16:32.719 --> 02:16:34.799 so that then people are wondering, how's Bray going to 2952 02:16:34.840 --> 02:16:37.520 respond to this? And if you can't do that, and 2953 02:16:37.600 --> 02:16:39.040 you're just going to kind of try to slip the 2954 02:16:39.079 --> 02:16:41.600 match in the finish in I don't think it's worth 2955 02:16:41.719 --> 02:16:43.159 doing in the first place. So I think you get 2956 02:16:43.159 --> 02:16:45.159 a lot less of the positive, but you still have 2957 02:16:45.200 --> 02:16:45.840 all the negative. 2958 02:16:49.319 --> 02:16:53.040 Why. I mean, what's happened though at Brickwayad what it's 2959 02:16:53.120 --> 02:16:56.200 not even has he just never recovered from the John 2960 02:16:56.280 --> 02:16:59.760 Cenic program. I mean I I assumed they had. I 2961 02:17:00.120 --> 02:17:02.159 didn't overreact to it. It's like, yeah, I wish he 2962 02:17:02.159 --> 02:17:04.559 would have wanted Greg Wrestlemaney, but he didn't. It's nothing 2963 02:17:04.600 --> 02:17:06.159 he can't bounce back from him. And then sure enough 2964 02:17:06.159 --> 02:17:07.799 the next nine on Raw, he cuts the promo and 2965 02:17:08.159 --> 02:17:09.959 gets some of his heat back, and it's like, Okay, 2966 02:17:10.079 --> 02:17:12.959 this is fine. But then they've just lost their way. 2967 02:17:13.000 --> 02:17:15.760 I mean, I hate to think that that was the 2968 02:17:15.879 --> 02:17:19.440 fond Dongo like Shiny Toys and Jazz. I mean, because 2969 02:17:19.719 --> 02:17:22.959 they're just missing out here. I really worry they're doing 2970 02:17:23.000 --> 02:17:24.920 long term damage. Right. 2971 02:17:25.040 --> 02:17:28.879 Yeah, No, they absolutely could be and I don't break 2972 02:17:29.280 --> 02:17:33.520 the solace. I take is enough people in power speak 2973 02:17:33.719 --> 02:17:35.719 very very highly of Bray a lot more than Fondango 2974 02:17:35.799 --> 02:17:38.559 and Seamus, and so I think that in their mind 2975 02:17:38.600 --> 02:17:41.680 they're not burying him, they just aren't focused on him 2976 02:17:41.680 --> 02:17:44.120 at the moment. And I think they believe in an 2977 02:17:44.399 --> 02:17:46.879 in an environment where they need to come up with 2978 02:17:47.319 --> 02:17:49.959 six hours of original programming every week counting main event. 2979 02:17:51.200 --> 02:17:53.280 They need to put top guys against the top guys. 2980 02:17:53.559 --> 02:17:55.600 And you know, the Vinsic man of the late nineties 2981 02:17:56.040 --> 02:17:59.479 mid nineties would roll his eyes at the Vincic man 2982 02:17:59.559 --> 02:18:02.639 of today. The destuct Mata today would say, the world 2983 02:18:02.680 --> 02:18:04.760 has changed and I've learned a lot since then. But 2984 02:18:05.239 --> 02:18:07.319 just giving away these main event matchups over and over 2985 02:18:07.360 --> 02:18:11.920 it means you water down the novelty of seeing main 2986 02:18:11.959 --> 02:18:14.280 event matchups. And then you're also put in a tough 2987 02:18:14.319 --> 02:18:16.719 situation where do you do all non finishes or do 2988 02:18:16.799 --> 02:18:19.239 you just do finishes and own them? And they did 2989 02:18:19.319 --> 02:18:22.120 that finish, but I don't think they fully owned it. 2990 02:18:23.239 --> 02:18:25.479 They did a decisive finish and then they just forgot 2991 02:18:25.520 --> 02:18:27.360 about it, went to a six man and forgot about that, 2992 02:18:27.639 --> 02:18:30.719 you know. So I don't know I mean, I think 2993 02:18:30.799 --> 02:18:33.760 Bray is good enough that he'll be fine, but I 2994 02:18:33.799 --> 02:18:35.680 don't know that he'll be what he could have been 2995 02:18:36.879 --> 02:18:39.360 in the short run and maybe the mid term, because 2996 02:18:39.479 --> 02:18:40.920 I do think it's a setback the way that they're 2997 02:18:40.920 --> 02:18:41.399 booking him. 2998 02:18:42.040 --> 02:18:44.239 Yeah, I do too. And final question of the day 2999 02:18:44.239 --> 02:18:47.959 ats a quick one thumbs up thumbs down to the 3000 02:18:48.079 --> 02:18:49.479 Midge having a stunt double. 3001 02:18:49.760 --> 02:18:50.440 That thumbs up? 3002 02:18:50.879 --> 02:18:53.399 Yeah, me too. I hate what they're doing with Sandow, 3003 02:18:53.479 --> 02:18:55.600 but that was actually very good use of that character. 3004 02:18:55.920 --> 02:18:59.000 And I joked on Twitter that Sandel, if he's really 3005 02:18:59.040 --> 02:19:00.680 committed to his job, would shave his beard. 3006 02:19:01.360 --> 02:19:01.920 That's true. 3007 02:19:02.200 --> 02:19:04.399 Yes, I think Santo showed a lack of commitment to 3008 02:19:04.440 --> 02:19:06.719 being a stunt double, because what stunt double has a 3009 02:19:06.760 --> 02:19:08.920 really big, bushy beard when the person he's stunt doubling 3010 02:19:09.000 --> 02:19:12.680 for is clean shaven. So you know, miss says he 3011 02:19:12.959 --> 02:19:15.399 picks good stunt doubles. But not only did Sant I'll lose, 3012 02:19:15.440 --> 02:19:18.639 but he didn't really look like a double. All right, 3013 02:19:19.399 --> 02:19:22.159 very good, Thank you, Jason. Good to be back. 3014 02:19:22.559 --> 02:19:25.319 Yeah, absolutely, and we'll talk. 3015 02:19:25.159 --> 02:19:27.399 To you next week. Thanks to Torch, we havep members 3016 02:19:27.440 --> 02:19:29.239 and of course, Jason, your dot need members are joining 3017 02:19:29.280 --> 02:19:31.159 us today and on that note, don't be after Jason 3018 02:19:31.200 --> 02:19:32.639 Powell Wade Keller signing off. 3019 02:19:50.440 --> 02:19:52.879 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions 3020 02:19:53.000 --> 02:19:56.280 or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at 3021 02:19:56.399 --> 02:20:00.440 petewtorchs dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at Peter toorch 3022 02:20:00.479 --> 02:20:03.360 dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow 3023 02:20:03.479 --> 02:20:06.559 us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at 3024 02:20:06.680 --> 02:20:11.000 the Wadekeller That's at PW torch and at the Wadekeller. 3025 02:20:13.040 --> 02:20:16.000 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. 3026 02:20:16.200 --> 02:20:19.680 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 3027 02:20:20.120 --> 02:20:22.399 Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis from 3028 02:20:22.440 --> 02:20:24.479 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 3029 02:20:24.559 --> 02:20:27.479 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 3030 02:20:27.520 --> 02:20:30.840 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 3031 02:20:30.879 --> 02:20:34.760 the pro wrestling industry. 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Thank you so much. 3073 02:22:48.440 --> 02:22:52.559 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 3074 02:22:52.760 --> 02:22:56.799 ultimately the brand you see today on the Torch VIP podcast. 3075 02:22:57.040 --> 02:22:58.760 NXT eight years back. 3076 02:22:58.959 --> 02:23:01.440 We'll be taking away weekly look at this page in 3077 02:23:01.600 --> 02:23:02.879 NXT's early history. 3078 02:23:03.799 --> 02:23:07.000 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 3079 02:23:07.079 --> 02:23:09.760 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to 3080 02:23:09.879 --> 02:23:12.559 the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they 3081 02:23:12.600 --> 02:23:16.479 did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 3082 02:23:17.559 --> 02:23:19.920 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add 3083 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:21.639 free access to these shows and a ton of other 3084 02:23:21.719 --> 02:23:24.360 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 3085 02:23:24.399 --> 02:23:28.000 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 3086 02:23:28.040 --> 02:23:30.959 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 3087 02:23:31.040 --> 02:23:33.760 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 3088 02:23:33.840 --> 02:23:37.319 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 3089 02:23:37.360 --> 02:23:40.000 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 3090 02:23:40.120 --> 02:23:43.920 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 3091 02:23:44.079 --> 02:23:46.239 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 3092 02:23:46.280 --> 02:23:50.719 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 3093 02:23:50.760 --> 02:23:53.600 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. 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