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So join me and the fun 28 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.159 sign up now at Chumba casino dot com No Just 29 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.000 Necessary Dad, where every I lost EA terms. 30 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.920 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 31 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 32 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:27.359 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK every 33 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.079 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 34 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:35.719 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 35 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:38.599 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 36 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.840 Good evening, This is your host Dan Supanski, for the 37 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.680 program True Murder, the most shocking Killers in True crime 38 00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.040 History and the authors that have written about them. This 39 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:03.760 time and the perfect opportunity to recap the first year 40 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.200 almost of True Murder, and with all the great interviews 41 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:11.520 with great authors discussing their fine books. I'll be speaking 42 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.919 this evening about a few things of interest, the latest 43 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.680 update on the Sydney tyrheuse appeal, what transpired at court 44 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.479 and the final verdict on that story at least so far. 45 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:27.240 And I'll be talking about the very best books that 46 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.840 I had the pleasure of reading this year and doing 47 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.120 interviews and just stressed it to go back and to 48 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:40.520 listen to those interviews just to content alone and really 49 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.879 my objective is to get you to buy some of 50 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.680 these books, because get you to read some of these books. 51 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.639 Go to your library if they should have these Get 52 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:51.039 these books one way or another. Get to read these books, 53 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.039 one way or another. And I'm going to be talking 54 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.039 about some of my favorites from this year that I 55 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.400 had the pleasure of some I highly anticipated book I'm 56 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:02.759 going to talk about called on the Farm for American viewers, 57 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.479 it's about the Robert Willie Picton and it's from an 58 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.479 author that you might not be familiar with. Her name 59 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:12.360 is Stevie Cameron. This is her second book about Robert Picton, 60 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.719 one of the worst serial killers ever, one of the 61 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:23.000 most bizarre, incredibly interesting and disturbing stories that you'll ever 62 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:28.599 ever read, and very very well written. Actually, Gary C. 63 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:32.719 King also wrote a book about the subject called Rage 64 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:35.639 that you can at least get on. You can order 65 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.120 as an ebook and it was released in late two 66 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.800 thousand and eight. Stevie Cameron had written a book about 67 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.599 Canada's Prime Minister and was more of a corporate business 68 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:50.960 true crime reporter, we'll say, and she found this case 69 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.360 so fascinating and interesting she felt compelled to spend the 70 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:58.680 great deal of the last four or five six years 71 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.439 working on this project to two books about Robert Willie Pickton. 72 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:06.759 Also want to talk about some upcoming shows in the 73 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:09.199 new year, and I apologize for not having a fresh 74 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.039 show this week and a fresh show next week on 75 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:16.800 the twenty ninth. I may have an encore program on 76 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.360 the twenty ninth, but I wanted to speak to people 77 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:24.480 that have been my dedicated and devoted followers for the 78 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:26.879 last year. And some people came on board a little 79 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:29.639 bit later, and some people came on right from the 80 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:31.759 very beginning to be listening to this program. So I 81 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:36.519 appreciate the people listening and sharing the program with other people. 82 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.279 There have been some great reviews on other sites as 83 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:43.199 well talking about the true Crime podcast for those avid 84 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.800 true crime fans. I want to talk about programs in 85 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.279 the new year. We have on January fifth coming up, 86 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.079 Evil next Door, The Untold Story of a Killer Undone 87 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:58.800 by DNA by an author named Amanda Lamb. And Amanda 88 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.759 Lamb has written as author of another tru crime book 89 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:06.920 called Deadly Dose and Evil next Door The Untold Story 90 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:10.360 of a Killer Undone by DNA with Amanda Lamb, and 91 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:17.319 that's January fifth, and apparently on May twenty first, two 92 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.040 thousand and two, twenty three year old Raleigh, North Carolina 93 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.439 resident Stephanie Bennett was found murdered in her apartment. Despite 94 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:28.920 ample DNA evidence of the scene, investigators could find no 95 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:34.040 matches in their criminal databases. Two years into the investigation, however, 96 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.000 Detective Ken Copeland, known as the garbage Van for leaving 97 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.439 no stone unturned in his search for evidence, and his 98 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.920 partner Jackie Taylor, joined the case. After culling through the 99 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.800 entire file with fresh eyes and re interviewing witnesses, they 100 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:52.959 re released a description of a suspect neighbors had seen nearby, 101 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.240 a man who'd once lived just next door to the 102 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:59.959 murder scene. But the suspect refused to hand over DNA sample, 103 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.279 wiping down anything he touched, and even planning decoy samples. 104 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:08.279 This is the gripping story of how a team of 105 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.639 aggressive detectives doggedly tracked down a killer under suspicion for 106 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.160 a killing spreed of investigators believe might have spent years 107 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.439 in cross state lines, and finally brought closure to an 108 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:24.199 innocent young woman's grieving family. And I had mentioned amandalam 109 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:29.040 is also the author of Deadly Dose, covers the crime 110 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:33.639 beat for WRLTV, one of the country's top CBS affiliates 111 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.000 in Raleigh, North Carolina. So I'm looking forward to that 112 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:43.160 interview with her on January fifth. On January twelfth, we 113 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:50.240 have my special guest will be Jay Patrick O'Connor. He 114 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.279 runs a excellent true crime site. If you haven't seen 115 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:59.000 this yet, it's called Crime Magazine. J Patrick O'Connor is 116 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:04.720 the editor and contributing author as well. He has this 117 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.600 excellent true crime site and it has excerpted stories, so 118 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:12.480 you get to read a lot more than just say 119 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:14.480 the little blurb that I read from the back of 120 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:19.319 Amanda Lamb's book, but you get a better picture of 121 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.000 what has actually gone on the story. I would say 122 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:28.279 around five thousand words. I am featured on Crime Magazine 123 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:33.800 as well as many authors and many stories ranging from 124 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.240 Charlie Manson to all kinds of stories. And one of 125 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.439 the stories that's also featured on Crime Magazine is j 126 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:45.199 Patrick O'Connor has written a book, The Framing of Momaya 127 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:54.360 Abu Jamal and this gentleman is an American originally born 128 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:58.800 Wesley Cook, who changed his name in University. He's born 129 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:04.120 in nineteen fifty four an American living in Philadelphia. He 130 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.279 was convicted and sentenced to death for the December ninth, 131 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.720 nineteen eighty one murder of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner. 132 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.680 Mumaya Abu Jamal has been described as perhaps the best 133 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:21.600 known death row prisoner in the world, and his sentence 134 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.480 is one of the most debated sentences to this day. 135 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.120 Before his arrest, he was an activist, a radio journalist, 136 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.920 and at the time of his rest, a part time 137 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.159 cab driver. He was also a member of the Black 138 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:39.240 Panther Party until October seventy and he did He worked 139 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:44.279 at a minority owned radio station and gave the voice. 140 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.480 He was called the voice of the voiceless. He gave 141 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:51.320 a lot of time to cases he felt were cases 142 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:57.759 of discrimination or police brutality or those kinds of cases. Anyway, 143 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:02.159 he was convicted and JP Patrick O'Connor has written the 144 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.919 Definitive book about Mumi Abu Jamal and his fight for 145 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.639 through his appeals his activism mentioned that he was an 146 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:17.159 activist and as involved in with the Black Panthers and 147 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.879 his education and his journalism career and how that could 148 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:25.080 have all been involved in what he considers the framing 149 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.600 of Abu Jamalso, there have been many celebrities and many 150 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:33.720 people have come forward in his defense over the years. 151 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.360 Once they've reviewed the case, we will hear the defendantive 152 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:43.679 story about what exactly happened, why he was considered a 153 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.679 suspect in the first place, why we can should consider 154 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.840 him not a suspect, and why he is innocent, and 155 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.519 we will hear all about that from j Patrick O'Connor. 156 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:00.679 And in the meantime, please check out his excellence True Crime. 157 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.519 It's a real must for true crime fans. Crime magazine 158 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:13.240 just Crime magazine, so that's an online magazine. On January nineteenth, 159 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.480 I have the great pleasure of a story that even 160 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:23.120 though I reside in Canada, I did not know of. 161 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.639 This story that's happened in one of our provinces here 162 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.559 British Columbia on the West coast, including Vancouver. This was 163 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.879 a story of a sixteen year old boy named Martin. 164 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:41.679 His last named Martin, and I won't be doing justice 165 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.879 to the story, but roughly the story is that he 166 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:50.879 was waiting for a skytrain above ground high speed rail 167 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:57.720 and a woman approached him and wanted his crucifix, and 168 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:03.000 he did not want to give up this crucifix. What 169 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:08.200 did transpire was that she had the assistance of a 170 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.480 gentleman or boyfriend, or a gentleman or a friend, and 171 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:15.440 she had given him a piece of jagged glass, broken glass, 172 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:21.039 and had told this person that the young man had 173 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:24.360 threatened her or tried to stab her, and that was 174 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:29.000 the impetus for this man going and slitting this boy's throat. Now, 175 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:34.679 typically you would have law enforcements, sometimes the district attorney, 176 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:44.799 sometimes independent journalists and freelance journalists or journalists associated with 177 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:51.440 reputable newspapers or radio programs or television writing about the case, 178 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:57.039 and then interviewing family members and victims, and sometimes the perpetrator, 179 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.000 or a combination of all of those things. This book 180 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:01.720 that we're going to be talking about is called The 181 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.879 Last Six Minutes, A Mother's Loss and Quest for Justice 182 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:14.600 by Sandra Martin's Toner and Matthew's killers have been tried, convicted, 183 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.120 and sentence, but Sandra Martin's Toner and her family cannot 184 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.679 escape their grief and their overwhelming sense of loss, and 185 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.200 they have channeled their anguish into affirmative action for victims. 186 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.279 The Last six Minutes is the true account of the 187 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:32.639 random and violent murder of sixteen year old Matthew Martin's 188 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.120 and his family's journey through the Canadian criminal justice system. 189 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.039 Now the family is faced with the killer's appeal and 190 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.759 the torment perhaps being subjected to another, yet another lengthy 191 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:51.759 trial now for parents, she says. Asandra Martin's Toner is 192 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:55.399 the founder and executive director of Families Against Crime and 193 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:59.159 Trauma FACT, an organization born as a result of the 194 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.600 random and senseless murder of her sixteen year old son. 195 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:06.200 Sandra now works tirelessly to help others that have lost 196 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.559 the loved one to a violent crime. Here articles appear 197 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:14.159 regularly magazines and online publications across Canada. Sandra has witnessed 198 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.919 first hand the imbalance in the Canadian justice system at 199 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.840 leaves it's time to see the rights of the victim 200 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.360 supersede those of the offenders. And Martin's Toner with her 201 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:31.440 book The Last Six Minutes and I wanted to I'm 202 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:34.679 proud to say as well that my book Trophy Killed 203 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.919 The Shall We Dance Murder have been nominated for the 204 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:43.039 Top thirty True Crime Books by Kim Cantrell and her 205 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:47.399 staff at True Crime Book Reviews. So I was very 206 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:52.200 privileged to meet Kim Cattrell and to have actually had 207 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.480 her on one of my programs talking about her site 208 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.559 and True Crime Book Reviews, and also she reviewed my book, 209 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.399 and I was very very pleased with her assessment of 210 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.720 the book and her description of the book and very detailed, 211 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:12.600 very comprehensive book reviews True Crime Book Reviews that she 212 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.480 even has a fictional Friday. So she does an incredible 213 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:22.600 job in covering some classic true crime books, some well 214 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:24.679 known authors and not so well known authors. She gives 215 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.000 everybody a shot. She can be very skating in her 216 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.919 assessment of some people's books, but I think that's what 217 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:38.200 gives her the real air of legitimacy and real confidence 218 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:39.879 when you go to True Crime Book Reviews that if 219 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:42.320 you're going to read a book, you're going to know 220 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.840 what you're going to be buying, what you're going to 221 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.399 be getting before you buy it. Courtesy of Kim Cattrell. 222 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.639 At True Crime Book Reviews, you get a really good 223 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.039 idea of whether you want, if you're interested in the 224 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.039 book or not. She states a really good case on 225 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.399 why you should get these books and what is it 226 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.559 about them that's so interesting or so different, or so 227 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.600 something that she hasn't seen before, Because we all know 228 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.000 we're looking for something a little bit different each time 229 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.720 we have shed our naivity a little bit and we 230 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.600 get to read books. I don't say that are worse, 231 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.559 but we are looking for very interesting stories, and there 232 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.000 are a lot of great authors out there with a 233 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.440 lot of great stories. It's just nice to have a 234 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.720 site they can tell you, listen, this is something you 235 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:32.000 might want to check out. So that's a really good 236 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:34.480 thing that she was nominated with this book. The last 237 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:37.840 six minutes. So we're going to have Sandra Martin's Toner 238 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:41.399 on January nineteenth. After that, we're going to have a 239 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.399 host of other authors. I just don't know the order. 240 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.279 I'm looking at a fair amount of books that have 241 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.080 come out. I want to have Burl Bear back on. 242 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:54.039 Burl Bear is a true crime author. He has about 243 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.559 six true crime books under his belt. His latest is 244 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:04.080 Fatal Beauty and Mom Said Kill. He has a broken 245 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.519 doll and h just the other books don't. 246 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:13.240 Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. I'm 247 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.279 gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. With family 248 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.720 Canoli's and spins mean everything. Now you want to get 249 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.879 mixed up in the family business, Introducing the Godfather at 250 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.960 Champagasino dot com. Test your luck in the shadowy world 251 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.480 at the Godfather Slodge. Someday I will call upon you 252 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.000 to do a service for me. Play the Godfather now 253 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.919 at Champacasino dot com. Welcome to the Family vdW group. 254 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:40.679 No perch's necessary. I believe we're privited by loss. 255 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:41.919 He terms and conditions eighteen. 256 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:44.120 Plus come to me to mine at this minute. If 257 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:45.720 I remember, I'm I'll saying a little bit later in 258 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.799 the program. But bur Bear hosts the best true crime 259 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.480 program that I've ever heard, and he's hilarious. I don't 260 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:57.200 know how true crime and comedy gets so mixed up, 261 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.840 but this guy is a veteran journalist. This guy's been 262 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.519 around forever. He's got a voice of God there, and 263 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.359 he is one hell of a funny guy. I don't 264 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.240 know how he gets the humor out of true crime 265 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:14.359 sometimes I certainly don't find it very often, But Burl 266 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.079 Bear just a great guest. I'm going to have him 267 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.920 back on with one of the moms said killed and 268 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.599 fatal Beauty. It probably have him on a couple of 269 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.000 times this year because he is just a fantastic guest. 270 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.359 But check out his program Burl Bear and Don Woolman 271 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:32.160 every week from Los Angeles. Just out sign Los Angeles 272 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:36.119 and it's fantastic show and has all the best guests, 273 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.960 all kinds of different true crime authors that appear on 274 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:44.440 his program. And each week he has a great program. 275 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.279 And it's a Saturday afternoon so check that out. But 276 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.759 it's of course on demand archived. Dislike this program, so 277 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.559 you can listen to it any old time you feel 278 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.799 like it. So check out True Crime Uncensored and of 279 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:01.000 course true Crime book reviews. Okay, So I wanted to 280 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.680 also talk about just for those people who would like 281 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:10.519 to know. In my book True Crime of par Trophy Killed, 282 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:15.200 the Shall We Dance Murder talked of the notorious now 283 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:22.319 notorious suspected serial killer Sidney Teerhughes. Sidney Tierhughes. I had 284 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.480 been waiting since May twenty first of this year for 285 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:30.720 the verdict on Sidney Teerhues's appeal, which was filed in 286 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:35.519 January of two thousand and nine. So when I was 287 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.200 the decision was reserved for three months or pardon me. 288 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:46.680 The decision was reserved by three judges pardon me, on 289 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.599 at the date of May twenty first. Sometimes they make 290 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.000 a decision, sometimes it's a month or two, and after 291 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.680 three or four months, especially around that time, I began 292 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.519 thinking that maybe the authority the judge, maybe at the 293 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.680 urging and prompting of the defense lawyer, who really has 294 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:14.920 never had anybody interfere, we'll say in a trial, I think, 295 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:21.480 humiliate him in front of his comrades and now forever, 296 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.039 and he may believe I'm trying to humiliate him, and 297 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.960 I am trying to expose him in the book by 298 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:35.319 having the transcripts, by having the first interview when he 299 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:38.799 didn't know I was speaking with his client when I 300 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:43.920 had certain amount of information at my disposal, and I 301 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.440 think it would be quite ironic when you read the interview. 302 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:51.960 So this my effort to defeat him his client, humiliate him, 303 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.200 interfere with the trial, show him up. Anyway. I thought 304 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.759 maybe that he would try to use this book, and 305 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.160 I think I thought that's what the extra time was 306 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:05.240 being used for, was to examine my book. And I 307 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.160 don't know if they didn't do that, but nevertheless, in 308 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.000 just a few weeks ago. Quietly, it didn't make much 309 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:21.680 media fanfare whatsoever that the appeal was denied, dismissed, and 310 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:26.200 there'll be no more further trials, so at least for 311 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.240 the part of my book where my book concludes with 312 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:36.039 his appeal, and I predict that his lawyer may use 313 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:42.880 my book to try in some way to try to 314 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.480 acquire another trial for his client. I said, I'm not 315 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.240 sure if that ever happened. I just know that it's 316 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.160 finally over. I'm feeling a little bit better that they 317 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.880 didn't give them another trial. I did, really, I wasn't 318 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.279 so worried. I mean, I think that there would have 319 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.359 been much more of a spotlight on this book. And 320 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.720 it's not so much the book this case. That's still 321 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:09.000 my primary focus is to have people understand this case, 322 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.880 Americans and Canadians, because really, we took the death penalty 323 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.480 away not that many years ago, and we've come a 324 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:21.640 long way since then to lessening the magnitude of murder 325 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:27.920 and to the horror of victims and their families, like 326 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.920 the Sandra Martin Toner's sixteen year voice throw a slit 327 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.880 for a crucifix. I haven't read the book yet, I've 328 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.839 read some reviews on it, that's all I know. But 329 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:45.880 all I know is that the impact of the judicial 330 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:52.240 system is almost as scary and shocking as the impact 331 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:58.759 of the murder itself. I'm not saying that that I 332 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.400 know from experience that the victims in America feel much 333 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.880 better after going through a trial or going through the 334 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:11.680 process there either. But I think we just do have 335 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:17.240 a system that has really In my book, the first 336 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.200 quote I quote from a governor general, one of the 337 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:25.039 highest officials in the country, and this is under we 338 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.920 have two party system usually, but we have another further 339 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:35.160 left wing party called the New Democratic Party. But normally 340 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:40.200 we have the liberals in power more so than the 341 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.039 conservatives in power. So you're Democrats versus Republicans, if you 342 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:49.720 were to look at it that way. The Liberals, as 343 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:53.920 the name implies, or going to be liberal in their lawmaking. 344 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.480 But this is from Canada's Lister General, Jean Pierre Goer 345 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.119 on October seventh, nineteen seventy one, and that's why I 346 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.319 felt I felt important to include this as a quote 347 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.440 at the very beginning of my book. We have decided 348 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:13.240 from now on to stress the rehabilitation of individuals rather 349 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:18.279 than protection of society and create a more relaxed atmosphere. 350 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:24.640 This new policy will probably involve some risk. That's nineteen 351 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.240 seventy one. By two thousand and three we have the 352 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:37.279 incredible murder of Robin Robert Greene by Sidney Tierhuse, And 353 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.240 by two thousand and three, at least I know, and 354 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.400 at least Sidney Tierhues knows, and at least the people 355 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:50.519 that are in the legal know that we have really 356 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.240 advanced with that idea. A triple murder that I spoke 357 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:01.480 about last week. I had a homicide homicide detective, head 358 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:07.680 of homicide detective talking about a triple murder where somebody 359 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.480 was coming for someone else he escaped out the window. Instead, 360 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:16.119 the wife and two as he called babies were shot 361 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:22.119 point blank by this killer and his accomplice was with him. Now, 362 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:28.279 this killer a triple first degree murder. You know, in 363 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:34.480 America you have laws that would ensure likely that somebody 364 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.319 that did that type of crime would never see the 365 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.880 light of day. In many states, you would have the 366 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.799 death penalty, whether they put them to death quickly or 367 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:46.960 eventually or not at all. They're in a cell by 368 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:53.240 themselves on death row, awaiting technically this death sentence. We've 369 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:58.440 taken the death sentence away. I'm not sure the timeframe 370 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.880 of that any if you can see in a relatively 371 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:06.759 short period of time and a generation or so, a 372 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:11.720 triple murderer is being prepared for release into the community. 373 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:17.160 In Canada, triple murderer first degree murder would have shot 374 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:20.359 four people, which said a husband and wife and two 375 00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:30.880 little kids, point blank because he was angry. So it's again, 376 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:36.400 it's not a dry tone on the Canadian judicial system. 377 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.519 It's just you just get a whole by virtue of 378 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.440 the story itself. And when I read the transcript, it 379 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:47.119 was I found them fascinating because I had never attended 380 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.359 a murder trial before, and I had thought I understood 381 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:54.039 a murder trial because of course I listened and read 382 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:56.839 or listened to the news and want and read the newspapers. 383 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.640 But I had the opportunity to be involved with a 384 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.759 very interesting case, a very fascinating and amazing case where 385 00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:08.839 the killer takes the stand, where I take the stand 386 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:15.480 against the prosecuting attorney or pardon me, the defense attorney, 387 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:19.480 and you get to read every word of this. Every 388 00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:23.400 word in this I've obviously edited down because it'd be 389 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:25.920 much longer, would be a size of the phone book, 390 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.960 but all the relevant interesting aspects were left in from 391 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.640 those transcripts. And it's for those who think it's much 392 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:38.759 like law and order, it's not anything like law and 393 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:46.200 order whatsoever. Now I'm going to use this opportunity to 394 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:51.160 talk about Trophy Hill just a little bit. And I 395 00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:57.599 wanted to mention as well that steadily the story is 396 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:00.880 getting out. It's amazing to me that being in a 397 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.279 city of the size of seven hundred thousand people, with 398 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.960 the national news coverage for three weeks while the trial 399 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.559 was on for a week while the crime actually had occurred, 400 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:17.960 and other dates where stories about orgon removal and cannibalism 401 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:22.559