Speaker 1: Baby, I'm a gangster too. It takes at a tangle.
Speaker 1: You don't mess with me. Mess with me, baby, I'm
Speaker 1: a GANGSTERA tou.
Speaker 2: Ouch baby, you're a gangstatoo.
Speaker 3: For good warnings, this podcast is designed to take you
Speaker 3: outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
Speaker 3: Listening discretion is a vibe the fellas.
Speaker 4: This ain't my first time at the rodeos. M h.
Speaker 5: M hmmm.
Speaker 4: Hello and welcome back to the show. We are back
Speaker 4: for part two of the what was her name, Katy Couci?
Speaker 4: It was like a color uh pink puss. Teal Swan. Yep,
Speaker 4: we are back for the part two of Teal Swan.
Speaker 4: Lot more to talk about, a lot more to uncover
Speaker 4: with this but before we do that, I don't have
Speaker 4: any stories for you today, but I have a couple
Speaker 4: of shout outs. I got one message from Tracy. I
Speaker 4: won't say your last name just for privacy purposes, but Tracy,
Speaker 4: I got your message. She went through the link tree
Speaker 4: like a good girl. That's how you're supposed to do it,
Speaker 4: so she said, I listened to your show religiously. I'm honored,
Speaker 4: thank you. I love your episodes on John Beney. I
Speaker 4: did stumble across a few TikTok videos about John Benne
Speaker 4: and Epstein. He had pictures of her in his apartment
Speaker 4: and one picture of Beney at a pageant and it
Speaker 4: had Maxwell in it. I thought you might want to
Speaker 4: look into it if you hadn't already listen. I'm sure
Speaker 4: they were running train on her. They never would say
Speaker 4: who the elite type person was, who was at the
Speaker 4: White's family Christmas party that night? There was a nine
Speaker 4: to one one phone call placed. There was an elite
Speaker 4: guest at the White family Christmas party. It's never been
Speaker 4: disclosed to it is. There was a nine to one
Speaker 4: one call that night. And then that's the night I
Speaker 4: think she died. I think she died at the Christmas party.
Speaker 4: And then they brought her body back home and called
Speaker 4: nine one one again in the morning from the Ramsey
Speaker 4: home to stage this cleanup job because they knew her
Speaker 4: dead body was down in the basement. They planted it there. Uh,
Speaker 4: from the night before, died at the Christmas party. Now
Speaker 4: I got another email, Let's see if I can find it.
Speaker 4: Was very interesting. It was about Steven Spielberg. Yes, it's
Speaker 4: from the email. Is man in the mire? Eighty five
Speaker 4: sent me an email, really really detailed email here about
Speaker 4: like Stargate SG one and Steven Spielberg, a lot of
Speaker 4: really cool stuff. I just wanted to let you know
Speaker 4: I did get your email. Thank you so much for
Speaker 4: reaching out. I really appreciate it. I love here from you, guys.
Speaker 4: You're my friends, You're my best piece, and we can
Speaker 4: keep it real with each other. Don't be afraid to
Speaker 4: send me email. Ghost dot peach at outlook dot com,
Speaker 4: send me email, hit me up, you know, bark up
Speaker 4: my tree. Love to hear from you, guys, even if
Speaker 4: I can't get back to you right away, or if
Speaker 4: I give you a shout out and respond to you
Speaker 4: via episode like this, Just know I love you and
Speaker 4: I see your messages coming through. Now that we're done
Speaker 4: with that part, we're gonna jump into part two of
Speaker 4: Teal Swan. I don't know how you guys are feeling
Speaker 4: so far with the first part, but damn a lot
Speaker 4: of stuff being revealed. Here me share my shit. Sharon.
Speaker 4: Oh boy, here we go, Sharon. Sharon. Sharon had the sound.
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, okay, he's getting off on it like by
Speaker 6: this point.
Speaker 4: Uh oh, all right, people, if you're ready, I'm ready.
Speaker 4: Let's get let's get to go and hang out.
Speaker 6: He had taken the knife and taken a huge slice
Speaker 6: of this guy's leg off of his thine muscle and
Speaker 6: was just chewing on it because he was cannabalistic as well,
Speaker 6: so he was chewing on this this rock.
Speaker 4: Don't forget. We left off with a dead ass, fucking
Speaker 4: corpse ass, carved up dead body with a full hit.
Speaker 4: He had an erection on, a dead erection on, and
Speaker 4: she was made to have sex with the dead body
Speaker 4: in her keeper, her handler, whoever he is. This is
Speaker 4: what he's doing. He's having this little snack time, little
Speaker 4: dammer time, and a little slim jerky action going on.
Speaker 4: And anyways, that's where we left off. That's where we're
Speaker 4: picking at.
Speaker 6: Oh he never cooked it, by the way. He was
Speaker 6: into raw stuff, so he would eat this piece of
Speaker 6: this raw leg. He was like enjoying it. You should
Speaker 6: have seen the look on his face. It was like
Speaker 6: he was for the first time feeling like this enthusiasm
Speaker 6: kind of And so he's in his enthusiasm bubble watching
Speaker 6: me do all this stuff, and my reality is breaking
Speaker 6: and it didn't feel good. It's not like, oh my god,
Speaker 6: this is awesome. This means that not everything he's told
Speaker 6: me is true. It's like, wait a minute, my whole
Speaker 6: reality is falling down. If he's told me this and
Speaker 6: I didn't do it, what else has he told me?
Speaker 1: That's a lie?
Speaker 6: And that was the first time that I had ever
Speaker 6: conceptualized of the idea that I had a choice and.
Speaker 1: That everything he said may not be true.
Speaker 6: So he had dug this enormous pit so as to
Speaker 6: not start a forest fire, this huge pit in the ground,
Speaker 6: and we threw the body in there, and then burnt
Speaker 6: this body, which took forever. We were out there for
Speaker 6: a really long time, a lot of hours. He's in
Speaker 6: the same jovial mood, and I'm watching this body burn,
Speaker 6: and then he takes the big pieces afterwards.
Speaker 1: And he'll like throw them.
Speaker 6: You know, into the woods, and then the rest of
Speaker 6: the ashes he will gather and then give that back
Speaker 6: to the mortician.
Speaker 1: And it's like, I couldn't.
Speaker 6: I can't tell you how bad that feeling is when
Speaker 6: your whole reality turns out to be a sort of
Speaker 6: upside down. I was not celebrating. I can tell you
Speaker 6: that I was like I should kill myself. But it
Speaker 6: was this weird impulse that happened internally where I was like,
Speaker 6: and I wasn't really thinking about it, like I should
Speaker 6: just drive away. So I get down to the base
Speaker 6: of this trail after this whole scenario was over and
Speaker 6: my car was there. He had had somebody dreve it there.
Speaker 6: I got into the car and I drove and I
Speaker 6: didn't go home. I drove like three hours to sell
Speaker 6: Lake City, where I had met a boy who actually
Speaker 6: still works with me today, which is why this is
Speaker 6: such a cool sort of turnaround. But I had met
Speaker 6: this boy t two times before this point, cause I
Speaker 6: had no friends. I'm really and for some reason, I
Speaker 6: just felt like I could trust this guy, and it
Speaker 6: was the first time I ever felt that way. He
Speaker 6: was so innocent, I swear to God, it's like, if
Speaker 6: you'll know if you meet him, and I'll probably introduce
Speaker 6: him to you guys one day if you.
Speaker 1: Want to meet him.
Speaker 6: But he's like the most innocent, amazingly sweet person ever.
Speaker 6: And some pardon me, thought I can use this to
Speaker 6: my advantage. I didn't realize that I would end up
Speaker 6: like loving him as a person the way that I do.
Speaker 6: At that point, It was like a survival. Survival mode
Speaker 6: was I can this guy can hide me, Like I
Speaker 6: can use him right now because he's sweet, and.
Speaker 1: Because I don't know where else to go. So I
Speaker 1: drove to his house. Nobody was there.
Speaker 6: I broke in the window. He was living with two
Speaker 6: roommates going to college. And I went into the bathtub
Speaker 6: and I was like, Okay, I should just get in
Speaker 6: the car and drive back home.
Speaker 1: No I can't, Yes I can't. No I can't, Yes
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 6: I didn't know any other way to cope, and so
Speaker 6: I was like I was feeling so guilty and so evil.
Speaker 1: Basically, then I.
Speaker 6: Defaulted to what I do from the Blood Covenant group,
Speaker 6: which was if you wanna find the light of Christ,
Speaker 6: just cut yourself bleed and you can feel that. They
Speaker 6: tell you that cause like the endorphit hit you get
Speaker 6: when you cut or you hurt yourself. They teach you
Speaker 6: that that is the light of Christ, that feeling that forgiveness. Basically,
Speaker 6: so I was like, Okay, I have to find that.
Speaker 6: And so I got a razor blade and I cut
Speaker 6: myself so bad I was bleeding all over the tiles.
Speaker 6: He was like running down the bathroom drain and when
Speaker 6: when my Blake says, ning, when he got home, he
Speaker 6: that's what he walked up to, walks into his bathroom
Speaker 6: and is like a blood everywhere, and he's like, oh
Speaker 6: my god, you know, and typical, he doesn't call anybody.
Speaker 6: He just cleans me up, feeds me, puts me in
Speaker 6: dead and then he's like, well, just don't go home.
Speaker 1: You just shouldn't go home. I'll just take care of you.
Speaker 6: And it's like he didn't really know the full story
Speaker 6: of what was going on at that point, but I
Speaker 6: was planning on going home still.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna go home whatever.
Speaker 6: But it was like the more that I was watching
Speaker 6: him take care of me, make me breakfast, I was
Speaker 6: feeling that sort of love and I didn't want to
Speaker 6: go back. One day, it came two days, two days
Speaker 6: became three days, three days became four days, and then
Speaker 6: it was like, after a while, I really had this
Speaker 6: that full urge of like, I don't want to go back,
Speaker 6: and so it started turning into fear of going back,
Speaker 6: and then I just hid basically with.
Speaker 7: Him, where's your keeper? Now?
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 7: Do you fear?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I would love to say no, I'd love to
Speaker 1: say I've transcended that.
Speaker 7: No, I do.
Speaker 6: I fear more than anything because I have a kid now.
Speaker 6: So that's really what's done me in I think.
Speaker 7: But you're very public about yep, your story, cause there's.
Speaker 6: Two ways to hide. See, at first I didn't take
Speaker 6: this route. At first, I hid time, I hid like crazy.
Speaker 6: I didn't tell anybody. I only got thrown into therapy
Speaker 6: because I literally got thrown into it by an ex
Speaker 6: boyfriend of mine who I was so like a typical
Speaker 6: abuse victim.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it wasn't okay to have sex
Speaker 1: with anyone.
Speaker 6: And I was like so traumatized that and like thinking
Speaker 6: that everyone around me kept people in the basement and
Speaker 6: that was normal that basically it was so difficult to
Speaker 6: be in a relationship with me at that point that
Speaker 6: he gave me an ultimatum.
Speaker 1: He's like, this is not normal. What you're telling me
Speaker 1: happened to you. Isn't okay. You need to go to
Speaker 1: therapy for that. I was like, no, no, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm totally fine.
Speaker 6: But I was so because I have of course been
Speaker 6: programmed to not be able to take care of myself.
Speaker 6: You'll notice that my pattern throughout my life has been
Speaker 6: get with a man, Get with a man, Get with
Speaker 6: a man. I don't even waste ten minutes between one
Speaker 6: relationship and the next, because my option of survival is
Speaker 6: that basically, have a guy taking care of me. I
Speaker 6: took that approach basically, so the idea of being on
Speaker 6: my own for any amount of time was more terrifying
Speaker 6: than being in therapy. So he actually took me to
Speaker 6: the rape crisis center and he like it was a
Speaker 6: big scuffle actually because I was resisting him, and he
Speaker 6: actually in nann just took me and like threw me
Speaker 6: through the door. Now you can imagine how well that
Speaker 6: was received in the rip crisis center, which is full
Speaker 6: of super angry, like anti rapist people.
Speaker 1: What the hell is it?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was jump rising. So it's still kind of
Speaker 1: funny to this day that I'm thinking back on that.
Speaker 6: But they like grabbed him, all of them and threw
Speaker 6: him up again. Said, well, they're sure that they're witnessing
Speaker 6: domestic abuse, right, He's.
Speaker 1: Like, she needs to be here, you take her in
Speaker 1: the back right now.
Speaker 6: So so the director of the rip crisis center takes
Speaker 6: me in the back of the room and is like
Speaker 6: why do you think he thinks you need to be here?
Speaker 6: And so I was like, well, I s and I
Speaker 6: started sort of telling her a little bit of stuff
Speaker 6: that went on with me, and I like, I watched
Speaker 6: her face sort of she was trying to be real professional,
Speaker 6: but I watched her face go from like interest to
Speaker 6: like white, and so she's like, this is I hope
Speaker 6: you understand that this is well beyond the capacity that
Speaker 6: we have at this particular center. This is not what
Speaker 6: we deal with. But I know somebody who does deal
Speaker 6: with this. And it was like that was the first time,
Speaker 6: by the way, that I hadn't even conceptualized if the
Speaker 6: idea that what I went through wasn't normal and wasn't okay,
Speaker 6: and was maybe even really bad. Like if you're if
Speaker 6: you're used to starving to death in Africa, that's normal
Speaker 6: for you. Like if you're used to being part of
Speaker 6: these groups.
Speaker 1: That's normal for you.
Speaker 6: So it's only when I watch the reactions on people's
Speaker 6: faces that I realized that this is like some other
Speaker 6: stu some like another level. So I was like, wow,
Speaker 6: you know, she's acting like this is really bad stuff
Speaker 6: that I went through. Maybe I do need therapy and
Speaker 6: maybe it would be good if I could get some
Speaker 6: coping skills. So she she referred me actually to this
Speaker 6: woman who works in the town, who is a rape
Speaker 6: crisis or not a rape crisis. She's a trauma expert
Speaker 6: in ritual abuse. That's kind of upsetting. I mean, like
Speaker 6: all of us need to stop here for a minute
Speaker 6: and realize, like if somebody can make their living and
Speaker 6: like honestly has to have patients referred to her. This
Speaker 6: is how over overflowed she is with clients. If that
Speaker 6: can be a specialty, does that tell you how many
Speaker 6: people in this particular area are suffering from this particular condition.
Speaker 6: So I ended up getting in with her, and to
Speaker 6: say the least, it was like completely life changing. And
Speaker 6: it didn't it didn't feel good at first because it's
Speaker 6: like it took me three years in therapy to admit
Speaker 6: that maybe he didn't do this because he loved me.
Speaker 6: So it's not like in therapy we were digging through
Speaker 6: all these suppressed memories. What it is is that I
Speaker 6: was unwilling to admit that what he said wasn't true
Speaker 6: about his motive. And then it's like, you know a
Speaker 6: lot of people would like to say, oh, it probably
Speaker 6: felt good to be in therapy. No is the worst
Speaker 6: thing in the world. Why because when you're going through
Speaker 6: a specific experiment or experience, it's like you're in survival
Speaker 6: mode and all those chemicals take over. And it's only
Speaker 6: in retrospect that things started getting as bad as they seem.
Speaker 6: You know, when you have to revisit drama is when
Speaker 6: it gets the worst. That's when I had to admit
Speaker 6: it's really not that he was chasing you through the
Speaker 6: woods because he really loved you and wanted to make
Speaker 6: sure you could get away from people getting chased by
Speaker 6: a serial killer through the woods as a child. And
Speaker 6: it's like when you realize that and when you bite
Speaker 6: off that, you don't want to live, which is the
Speaker 6: reason that most of us as abuse victims. It's the
Speaker 6: reason I think that most of us buy into the
Speaker 6: ideas that were sold by these groups so much, just
Speaker 6: because if you don't, you're gonna die. I mean, that's
Speaker 6: a survival strategy. If I if I tell you I'm
Speaker 6: doing this because I love you, you had better believe that
Speaker 6: because the alternative is so bad you can't live through it.
Speaker 6: So I had done that, and it was like I
Speaker 6: was letting go of the very thing which enabled me
Speaker 6: to survive that whole situation in admitting that it admitting
Speaker 6: the truth about what was really going on instead of thinking, no, really,
Speaker 6: it's all for my own good. So that was the
Speaker 6: worst thing in the entire world. But I did start
Speaker 6: piecing my world back together again, and after about I
Speaker 6: think two or three years of therapy, I was allowed
Speaker 6: to go into group therapy where I got to meet
Speaker 6: other women. And I will never forget the day that
Speaker 6: I first walked in and it was a group of
Speaker 6: I think like five or six women, and the one
Speaker 6: who was sitting right over to my left side when
Speaker 6: I walked through the door, both of us started crying
Speaker 6: because she and I had met each other at a
Speaker 6: at a Satanic mass, so we had both gotten out
Speaker 6: of the same scenario and meeting each other was just
Speaker 6: like it was so therapeutic, and it was like amazing
Speaker 6: to meet these women who had gone through the same
Speaker 6: kind of stuff as me and I I developed like
Speaker 6: a serious attachment to them.
Speaker 1: But I don't talk to them today.
Speaker 6: Why Because I went public, I served the reality of
Speaker 6: my life and I wasn't planning on doing this, I
Speaker 6: might add, so I was going through therapy, and when
Speaker 6: I started talking about ritual child sacrifices and stuff like that,
Speaker 6: where it turns into murder, they legally have to tell someone.
Speaker 6: So basically I was put in an ultimatum scenario by
Speaker 6: my therapist who said, either I'm gonna tell the cops,
Speaker 6: or you'd have to tell the.
Speaker 1: Cops because this is what we have to do. It's
Speaker 1: my job. And so I was like, all right, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna do it. Then, so she the.
Speaker 6: Chief of police in the area that I grew up in.
Speaker 6: Now it's a it's a really enormous issue of a
Speaker 6: case basically because technically, unless the FBI has control of
Speaker 6: a case, each individual report has to be reported with
Speaker 6: the state that happened in. So if you've got a
Speaker 6: group like this that operates in multiple states, then it's
Speaker 6: like not one person, one organization. The government can't get
Speaker 6: together and do all of it at once, right. So
Speaker 6: and then it's another issue too because they want exact
Speaker 6: dates and I'm it's like, you know, if I said
Speaker 6: to you, do you what's the worst memory you have
Speaker 6: from your childhood and like say that, it's say that
Speaker 6: It's like when some kid kicked you with a soccer
Speaker 6: ball or something, And I said, what exact day.
Speaker 1: Did it happen on? Could you tell me that?
Speaker 6: Most people couldn't, so they're they're expecting things of of
Speaker 6: me that I honestly can't do. I can tell you
Speaker 6: roughly what age I was based on reference points like
Speaker 6: what teacher I remember going to or you know, something
Speaker 6: like that, but the exact dates. Unless I know the
Speaker 6: exact date, which I do, sometimes it's difficult to report on.
Speaker 6: So basically, the chief of police came back and sat
Speaker 6: down with me and I for three hours. I recounted
Speaker 6: as much as I could remember dates for and things for,
Speaker 6: and yeah, he looked about as draumatized as ever. After
Speaker 6: I ended up saying what I said, and he went
Speaker 6: back and this big case was opened, and I spent
Speaker 6: a while there. For a few I was getting crime
Speaker 6: victims reparation money, and I spent a while there like
Speaker 6: reporting to them.
Speaker 1: They would film me while I.
Speaker 6: Would talk about what had happened, specific incidents that they
Speaker 6: would want to know about, looking at mug shots, looking
Speaker 6: at missing pictures of children, things like that. And then
Speaker 6: they decided in the end that despite the amount of
Speaker 6: evidence that I had, which is actually a lot more
Speaker 6: than most people escape with in my scenario because of
Speaker 6: the time lapse and the fact that they're really good
Speaker 6: at covering their tracks. I had escaped with a pair
Speaker 6: of jeans I was raped in. I had escaped with
Speaker 6: a human tooth that I took from a sacrifice, and
Speaker 6: I gave all this to them. So despite all of
Speaker 6: that and the scars which they did scar mapping on
Speaker 6: my body and everything, the case was handed over the
Speaker 6: district attorney. The district attorney gets to decide whether they
Speaker 6: have enough tangible evidence to prosecute. See, most people don't
Speaker 6: understand that hearsay is not enough reason to prosecute someone,
Speaker 6: and it's not even enough reason for a search warrant.
Speaker 6: And it makes sense when you think about it, Like
Speaker 6: if you're my neighbor and I say you got bodies
Speaker 6: buried in the backyard.
Speaker 4: I listen. Whatever point she's about to make right now,
Speaker 4: I'm sure it's a good one. But most of the time,
Speaker 4: district attorneys are not your friends. Okay, the people in
Speaker 4: the area who be a part of this shit cover
Speaker 4: it up and bury it. The district attorney for the
Speaker 4: John Benet case was a piece of shit, and then
Speaker 4: went on to work for John Rams. There's been many
Speaker 4: a district attorney. The district attorney in the Minton does
Speaker 4: brother's case. Okay, they are not your friend, and they're
Speaker 4: probably probably involved with this stuff. Like she's got if
Speaker 4: this is real, Okay, this is true, she's got teeth,
Speaker 4: she's got shit, Okay, this ain't. No, Oh, my neighbor's
Speaker 4: got body's buried in the backyard like the burbs or
Speaker 4: some shit. No, she's got artifacts from the rituals that
Speaker 4: she can present. And yet well the district attorney, no,
Speaker 4: fuck that. Okay, the district attorney is probably in on it.
Speaker 4: But anyways, I could.
Speaker 6: Do that just to piss you off, just to make
Speaker 6: the cops come over to your house. So just one
Speaker 6: person saying something is not enough for that, as we
Speaker 6: saw with the recent case where there's like all the
Speaker 6: girls being kept in the backyard and the cops were
Speaker 6: sent to the house and they didn't even go in
Speaker 6: the backyard, so it wasn't Basically the district attorney made
Speaker 6: the executive decision to keep the case cold, where basically
Speaker 6: it's not like it's closed, it's open, but it's waiting
Speaker 6: for further evidence or waiting for further people to come forward.
Speaker 7: Essentially, where is this case at I think.
Speaker 6: They're keeping it in a North Logan police department.
Speaker 5: Okay, And how do you how does it feel that,
Speaker 5: I mean, you have all this, you know all this happened,
Speaker 5: you have all these stories.
Speaker 7: The police chief obviously believes you.
Speaker 5: I mean, but how does it make you feel to
Speaker 5: not be able to have a prosecution, that they can't
Speaker 5: go after these people?
Speaker 6: I go back and forth with that because it's see
Speaker 6: if anybody knows what I've done basically since then, cause
Speaker 6: the begin in the beginning, I was hiding, right and
Speaker 6: I didn't want anyone to know. I mean, if you
Speaker 6: if you look at my driver's license, it'll send you
Speaker 6: to a police department. Like I didn't want anyone to
Speaker 6: know where I was at all. I was scared to
Speaker 6: be in the state, but couldn't leave the state because
Speaker 6: of programming to not leave the state right now. I
Speaker 6: kind of had this flip happen in me because I
Speaker 6: I've started. At first, I wanted nothing to do with
Speaker 6: my abilities either. I was in professional sports. That's what
Speaker 6: I wanted to do. Just anything that would get me
Speaker 6: grounded in the physical and I don't want anything to
Speaker 6: do with this kind of ethereal crap. So I was
Speaker 6: in massive resistance to that, but it was like not
Speaker 6: going away. So at at a certain point in my
Speaker 6: healing process, I was like, you know, I have to
Speaker 6: I can't like live this way in resistance to an
Speaker 6: aspect of my being forever. So I started opening back
Speaker 6: up to this sort of spirituality thing, and I started
Speaker 6: seeing clients individually for just health issues.
Speaker 7: At that time.
Speaker 6: It wasn't like mental issues They're always into related but
Speaker 6: I would see people who had like cancer, or I'd
Speaker 6: see people who had gastritis or you know, a broken
Speaker 6: limb or something like that, and I would do healing
Speaker 6: sessions with them. And it occurred to me that a
Speaker 6: lot of the things that I was saying, you know
Speaker 6: that it occurred to me that at first of all,
Speaker 6: coming through an experience like that, you learn a lot
Speaker 6: like I actually went through an enlightenment experience. When I
Speaker 6: was stuck in this hole in the ground. He used
Speaker 6: to keep me and it bus sized his backguard. He
Speaker 6: used to line it with stinging nettle and keep me
Speaker 6: down in there for hours a time. So I feel
Speaker 6: like it's a lot of what I learned coming through
Speaker 6: that experience that made it so that I know these
Speaker 6: sort of larger truths I guess. So I started helping
Speaker 6: people with those things, sort of like an amount of
Speaker 6: wisdom comes out of suffering. So I started to notice
Speaker 6: that making a difference in people, and so I started
Speaker 6: thinking about it and I was like, you know, this
Speaker 6: way of living is not.
Speaker 1: A way to live at all.
Speaker 6: Because when I started going through the process with the
Speaker 6: with the with the police, I started getting death threat
Speaker 6: letters and the police part and Salt Lake City actually
Speaker 6: has those because that's who I took them to. They
Speaker 6: were unmarked letters with specific trigger words, and it was
Speaker 6: just like, you know, what, is this gonna be my life?
Speaker 6: That's sort of the question I had to ask, Is
Speaker 6: this gonna be my entire life where I'm just hiding
Speaker 6: and I'm ashamed of myself? Really, because that's the attitude
Speaker 6: that most of society takes about.
Speaker 1: People like me. Is that were damage goods, Like no
Speaker 1: guy should date a girl?
Speaker 6: Is that complicated? Why would you ever want to do that?
Speaker 6: So it just became not okay. Basically after a while,
Speaker 6: I was like, hey, this is not okay that women
Speaker 6: like me are treated this way. Be this is not
Speaker 6: a way live, this hiding, and so I've occurred to
Speaker 6: me basically that there are two ways to hide. The
Speaker 6: first is to go incognito and try to escape and
Speaker 6: run for the rest of your life the seconds to
Speaker 6: become so in the public eye that they it's very
Speaker 6: difficult to have you disappear without somebody figuring out where
Speaker 6: you've gone, you know what I mean. So I was like,
Speaker 6: that's probably a better idea. Not only that I'm sort
Speaker 6: of sick of it. I would sit there in these
Speaker 6: groups with these women, some of them were forty fifty,
Speaker 6: and I'm watching them have the the same issues as
Speaker 6: ever before. One of them got triggered and almost killed
Speaker 6: her whole family, And I'm like, if this is the
Speaker 6: best that we're looking at for people who have come
Speaker 6: out of scenarios this bad is, you know, people who
Speaker 6: are terrified for the rest of their life, people who
Speaker 6: are always looking over their shoulder. It's not gonna work
Speaker 6: for me, and it's not gonna work for me to
Speaker 6: buy this thing too, where all of them are like,
Speaker 6: don't tell anybody, We don't want anybody to know, you know,
Speaker 6: and that's the status quo. And I like, at this point,
Speaker 6: I was like, I'm kind of a ballsy person. So
Speaker 6: I was like, that's not gonna work for me anymore.
Speaker 6: To watch these women, not just myself, act like it's
Speaker 6: okay to not say anything about this crap. That's exactly
Speaker 6: why these little girls still get taken. So it was
Speaker 6: sort of like it became this philanthropic thing for me,
Speaker 6: which is always a self centered thing to some degree,
Speaker 6: but I was like, you know, if there's like a
Speaker 6: six year old out there that this is still happening to,
Speaker 6: I won't forgive myself unless I say something. That's sort
Speaker 6: of where I went to. So I just decided to
Speaker 6: basically be the poster child for ritual abuse. I was like,
Speaker 6: if nobody else wants to talk about this stuff, I'll
Speaker 6: talk about it. Fine, I'm gonna tell you that this
Speaker 6: stuff exists. If you don't want to believe that is
Speaker 6: is this, then you're part of the problem.
Speaker 5: It kind of leads me to my next question, is
Speaker 5: there are people out there who don't believe this exists.
Speaker 7: There's gonn be.
Speaker 5: People that watch our story that are gonna be like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: She's crazy. I know, I've seen them. I did that interviews.
Speaker 1: This is what's really frustrated me.
Speaker 6: It's like, honestly, and this is the case with any
Speaker 6: kind of abuse situation. The perpetrator asks nothing from you.
Speaker 6: You can disbelieve what the victim says and you can
Speaker 6: go back to living your life, believe in that reality
Speaker 6: is one way, and it can be safe, and it
Speaker 6: can feel good and you don't have to worry about
Speaker 6: your nine year old daughter getting taken and murdered. Now,
Speaker 6: when you signed with a victim and you believe a
Speaker 6: story that somebody has said, like me, it puts people
Speaker 6: in a moral dilemma. I'm essentially asking people to rewrite
Speaker 6: their entire version of reality. Now I understand, of course,
Speaker 6: being in the position that I'm in today, being a
Speaker 6: self help expert, if you will, how difficult it is
Speaker 6: for people to.
Speaker 1: Rewrite their realities.
Speaker 6: So of course I'm gonna run into a serious amount
Speaker 6: of backlash from people who do not want to believe
Speaker 6: that this is possible. It's a lot easier to look
Speaker 6: at someone like me and say this stuff can't possibly exist,
Speaker 6: because then I get to live in a safe world,
Speaker 6: and to say, you know what this is a super dangerous,
Speaker 6: messed up world, which is where people go and they
Speaker 6: hear stories like this. So yeah, a lot of people
Speaker 6: aren't gonna believe. I mean, I've done interviews before that
Speaker 6: I regret where it's like, I've talked to people who
Speaker 6: I thought would give a sort of rational overlook of
Speaker 6: the fact that this ritual stuff is happening and is
Speaker 6: happening in our communities, and it's turned exactly the opposite way.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's actually.
Speaker 6: Been I feel like people are ready for it, you know, like,
Speaker 6: for example, I did an interview with the Herald Journal,
Speaker 6: which is the local newspaper in Logan, Utah, and the
Speaker 6: editor really messed up with the piece. I'll just tell
Speaker 6: you that basically, and he sparked a major controversy in
Speaker 6: the town, which twe degree is good because it got
Speaker 6: people questioning. The major controversy was that people looked at
Speaker 6: that story and some of them are like, why, okay,
Speaker 6: this is not okay that you're canvassing a totally mentally
Speaker 6: ill woman. So they were the ones that didn't believe.
Speaker 1: But then we're mad at.
Speaker 6: Him because he made a spectacle of someone who's so
Speaker 6: obviously mentally ill that they could believe this would happen
Speaker 6: to them. The whole other side, though, which was interesting,
Speaker 6: came out and they would not let it go. Of
Speaker 6: therapists in that particular town who are saying, no, I
Speaker 6: get about ten stories a month exactly like this to
Speaker 6: the tea, So we're unwilling to buy your story that
Speaker 6: this is just a story because I'm hearing the same
Speaker 6: thing in this town. And then other people write in
Speaker 6: and saying, this is my childhood. I grew up in
Speaker 6: this type of occult and I'm not brave enough to
Speaker 6: come forward, but this stuff does happen. And so it
Speaker 6: was like that particular newspaper got just inundated with this
Speaker 6: super two sided type of reality from the public of saying,
Speaker 6: oh my gosh, you know a lot of people do
Speaker 6: know this is going on and just don't know what
Speaker 6: the hell to do about it. So I feel like,
Speaker 6: what's been interesting for me watching I don't watch, I
Speaker 6: try not to watch the news, but catching wind of
Speaker 6: the fact that this is actually coming more into the
Speaker 6: public view.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got how.
Speaker 6: Many girls in the past two years have just randomly
Speaker 6: come strolling out of basements that they've been kept in
Speaker 6: for years. It's like the public eyes are starting to
Speaker 6: open to the idea that this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Does actually go on.
Speaker 6: So I feel like we're actually more ready than ever before,
Speaker 6: and I feel like that's really good for people in
Speaker 6: my position who are have been victimized by these particular
Speaker 6: groups to not have to cower and not have to
Speaker 6: be in a state of shame forever.
Speaker 5: You talked a little bit about more cases coming out.
Speaker 5: I actually was in Ohio when Gina Dejesu, Samanda Barry
Speaker 5: were all rescued.
Speaker 4: And listen, I don't know what she's about to say
Speaker 4: about this, but I used to stroll the neighborhood where
Speaker 4: that dude kept all them bitches in the basement in Cleveland,
Speaker 4: Like that's the really shit. Okay. I don't know if
Speaker 4: he was into SIRA or not, or he's just a
Speaker 4: weird fucking psycho that like to keep bitches in his
Speaker 4: basement and getting pregnant. Anyways, the thing I was gonna say,
Speaker 4: she was talking about these women they're getting triggered and
Speaker 4: they almost killed their whole family, or she was getting
Speaker 4: death threats, letters with trigger words in him. And I'm
Speaker 4: sitting here thinking like it's so it's like vernacular now
Speaker 4: pop culture to be triggered. I'm triggered, triggered, triggered, triggered.
Speaker 4: There's actually a really good song called triggered Anyways that
Speaker 4: almost makes me think. It's almost like with the other
Speaker 4: desensitizing shit about these people coming forward and telling their
Speaker 4: story and you hear it over and over and over
Speaker 4: again to the point where you're like, Okay, yeah, they
Speaker 4: raped the babies. They the babies, they did the whatever,
Speaker 4: and they chopped up the bodies and then they raped
Speaker 4: the pieces and then they and like at some point,
Speaker 4: as a conspiracy theorist, you're like, okay, we've heard this
Speaker 4: one before and using the word now just to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I went to Starbucks today and I was so triggered.
Speaker 4: They were out of my shit. They made my drink wrong,
Speaker 4: they did this, they did that.
Speaker 1: I was so triggered.
Speaker 4: It's like they have included this stuff in like the
Speaker 4: daily Uh, Like it's just normal, Like Epstein files are
Speaker 4: getting out and everybody's triggered, right, and everybody's this and
Speaker 4: everybody like it's just become part of our vernacular to
Speaker 4: say and see and hear these things. I'm triggered. Oh
Speaker 4: did you hear about Epstein and the pedophiles and the
Speaker 4: this and then that? If you would have said these
Speaker 4: things like I don't know, six seven, eight years ago,
Speaker 4: people would have thought people would have their skin would
Speaker 4: be crawling, okay, because it would be such a horrific
Speaker 4: thought to think that this stuff was going on. And
Speaker 4: now you have people just like at the grocery store
Speaker 4: and shit talking in front of you in the line,
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, did you hear about that Epstein stuff in
Speaker 4: the in the Epstein and the Epstein and the this
Speaker 4: and the It's like the general public is talking about
Speaker 4: this stuff. Okay, talk about trigger Hello. But anyways, I
Speaker 4: just wanted to throw that out there. And by the way,
Speaker 4: if you're one of those douchebags, and if you are,
Speaker 4: I still love you if you listen to my show,
Speaker 4: but please consider not doing this. You tell people that
Speaker 4: they're true you or you're getting triggered. Okay, if you've
Speaker 4: lived through some shit like this where you've had to
Speaker 4: fuck a dead corpse ass, fucked up dead body that's
Speaker 4: all carved up with a dick on hard, okay, you
Speaker 4: can say you get triggered by stuff. Okay, But if
Speaker 4: your boyfriend or your husband didn't take out the trash
Speaker 4: and that really got on your nerves, you're not triggered, honey,
Speaker 4: you pissed off. Okay. And if I'm not even gonna
Speaker 4: go there with men. If there's men out there saying
Speaker 4: that they're getting triggered, just click out of this podcast.
Speaker 4: That's a little too fin for me. I don't like
Speaker 4: it at all. I see now I'm triggered just thinking
Speaker 4: about it. Some dude walking around out there going I'm triggered.
Speaker 4: I'm triggered. Just stop, just stop, stop, or I'm gonna
Speaker 4: trigger you, and it's gonna be a different kind of trigger.
Speaker 4: Trigger warning. Okay, this podcast does not cater to delicate sensibilities.
Speaker 4: So anyways, let's get back into the interview.
Speaker 5: Obviously, it's not to the magnitude of your case of
Speaker 5: what at least we haven't heard that. It was to
Speaker 5: the magnitude of your your situation where you were abused.
Speaker 7: But things like that.
Speaker 5: Do you think things like that are helping? Like those
Speaker 5: cases a smart case.
Speaker 6: And it's like, you know, I gotta tell you, and
Speaker 6: it's an interesting reaction, and I know it's a reaction
Speaker 6: A lot of us have to get out of the groups.
Speaker 6: It's like we watch we watch these and it's like
Speaker 6: some part of us is set free when those women
Speaker 6: come forward and we're like, oh, thank God, but another
Speaker 6: part of us is intensely jealous. It was the most
Speaker 6: interesting reaction I watched in myself to the Elizabeth Smart
Speaker 6: case because I was just like, first of all, I
Speaker 6: was so angry because the amount of money she had.
Speaker 6: You know, that's the only reason that anyone gave a
Speaker 6: shit that she disappeared. Right, Let's just be honest, because
Speaker 6: I mean, if you're like a little little Foster kid,
Speaker 6: nobody's gonna put your face anywhere. You're not gonna be
Speaker 6: in multiple states, much less you're lucky to be in
Speaker 6: one city, like on on a gas station window or something.
Speaker 6: So on one hand, I was like, I was like, yes,
Speaker 6: thank God's like you know, this stuff is in the
Speaker 6: public news, and I was like, you know, I hate her.
Speaker 6: I hate her because there's so much attention. I hate
Speaker 6: her because she's glorified. I hate her because you know,
Speaker 6: the grady fear her is now that she's got her
Speaker 6: Unteen's book, is that people are you know that she's
Speaker 6: releasing this God major that she's set for rest of
Speaker 6: her life because people know about it, and the majority
Speaker 6: of us are like struggling, I mean really struggling.
Speaker 1: I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 6: Majority of people who get out of these scenarios which
Speaker 6: are I mean for life, they're damaged for life. So yeah,
Speaker 6: I was just I just it's a really interesting reaction
Speaker 6: to have. But in answer to your question, yeah, I
Speaker 6: think it's helping. I think with every single case that
Speaker 6: we see coming out with this, people are more were
Speaker 6: forced to accept the reality that this stuff occurs, instead
Speaker 6: of just discrediting every single one of us, which has
Speaker 6: been the status quo for so long. It's really easy
Speaker 6: to write us off and say we're mentally ill.
Speaker 5: Is this your coping mechanism talking and sharing your story
Speaker 5: or how are you coping today? I mean, because you obviously,
Speaker 5: I mean, you relive this every day. It's not something
Speaker 5: that you wake up and it's miraculously gone.
Speaker 1: I wish it was some time.
Speaker 5: I mean, you've spent what thirteen years of your life,
Speaker 5: sixteen years of your life living as hell, yes.
Speaker 6: And now eleven years trying to get over it. My
Speaker 6: coping skills, I've surrounded myself with really good people who
Speaker 6: have been rehabilitating me. I think that's the real story,
Speaker 6: the real stories. If you've been hurt so bad, you're
Speaker 6: your only option of figuring out that it's possible to
Speaker 6: be treated differently is to find people to treat you differently.
Speaker 1: And I got really lucky that way.
Speaker 6: And I also I don't take a passive approach to
Speaker 6: my life. It's like, you know, super intelli. They pick
Speaker 6: these groups profile for very intelligent people, and it's like,
Speaker 6: on one hand that worked against me on this sand,
Speaker 6: they can work for me because.
Speaker 1: I can now really.
Speaker 6: Take an active role in my own healing. So I'm
Speaker 6: really involved in like spirituality, super involved in self help.
Speaker 6: I'm obsessed with shadow work, like you know, probing around
Speaker 6: in my subconscious is an obsession of mine. And I
Speaker 6: also buy into a lot of the philosophies that you
Speaker 6: can change your reality if you change your mindset. So
Speaker 6: having even if you don't believe in that kind of stuff,
Speaker 6: just what it feels like to know that you might
Speaker 6: have some kind of say in the way your life
Speaker 6: goes based on how you're thinking, is enough empowerment to
Speaker 6: at least make some of us feel better.
Speaker 1: So I do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: On a daily basis, I write gratitude journals about what
Speaker 6: I'm happy about in my life. I just try to
Speaker 6: basically follow my bliss and it's worked, because focusing on
Speaker 6: being damaged for the rest of my life is not
Speaker 6: gonna get me anywhere but more damaged.
Speaker 7: I guess where are your parents now?
Speaker 6: They actually lived down in southern Utah.
Speaker 7: Do you have any contact with them?
Speaker 1: Very little?
Speaker 6: That's sort of what I'm the most sad about is
Speaker 6: that our relationship is completely deteriorated.
Speaker 7: Is it because of the situation?
Speaker 6: Yep?
Speaker 5: I mean obviously you didn't have You said you didn't
Speaker 5: have a good relationship with your parents growing up, and
Speaker 5: that was something that attracted your keeper to you. Yes,
Speaker 5: do you ever think that your pa? Do your parents
Speaker 5: believe you and what happened?
Speaker 6: They believe something happened because it's undeniable and they know
Speaker 6: that the man my keeper was the one who did it.
Speaker 6: But they don't believe all of my story because if
Speaker 6: they accept that all of it happened, then they have
Speaker 6: to accept that they really crappy parents, and they are
Speaker 6: unwilling to do that obviously, because obviously, I mean, my
Speaker 6: parents are not horrific people. If they would have known
Speaker 6: this stuff was going on, If they would have known
Speaker 6: that I was coming home hurt because he hurt me,
Speaker 6: not because of a horse fall, or you know, knew
Speaker 6: that I was writing really sadistic, horrific poetry in grades
Speaker 6: school because I was being hurt, not because I was
Speaker 6: just sensitive and depressed, they would have stopped it. They
Speaker 6: missed every red flag, basically, And because they missed every
Speaker 6: red flag, their reality of my life and my reality
Speaker 6: of my life is entirely different. So there can be
Speaker 6: no so far no reconciliation between my parents' version of
Speaker 6: my childhood and what I'm saying happened in my childhood.
Speaker 6: And the real reason I'm not talking to my parents
Speaker 6: right now is not because of what happened. I could
Speaker 6: forgive them any day for what happened before. I could,
Speaker 6: like today, if they walked through the door and said,
Speaker 6: you know, we're gonna acknowledge that all of the stuff
Speaker 6: that you say happened to happen.
Speaker 1: Let's find healing of it. It's fine.
Speaker 6: I'll let them off the hook immediately for everything, you know.
Speaker 6: But the reality is that I don't talk to them
Speaker 6: because of the fact that there's a rift between what
Speaker 6: they're willing to accept happened to me and what they
Speaker 6: are unwilling to own up to basically about the past,
Speaker 6: and that's happening in real time. So yeah, like this
Speaker 6: has destroyed every aspect of my family life as well,
Speaker 6: which was a huge shock to me. I'll tell you
Speaker 6: that because when I got away from the group, figured
Speaker 6: I would tell my parents and everybody around me what
Speaker 6: would happen, and I'd be welcomed with like open arms.
Speaker 6: I was not even remotely prepared for people to discount
Speaker 6: that I went through what I'm saying that I went through.
Speaker 1: But this is a typical story.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm like one of eight billion women who
Speaker 6: experienced this exact same thing. Where when we try to
Speaker 6: say hey mom, you know, like it's usually incest where
Speaker 6: this happens, but it's like other cases as well. A
Speaker 6: little girl says, hey mom, dad, was you know having
Speaker 6: sex with me at night all the way growing up?
Speaker 1: She's like, no, you were just imagining that.
Speaker 6: Most of your family's going to react that way too.
Speaker 6: So it's like a whole other level of pain for
Speaker 6: us is that we're not It's like the story is
Speaker 6: not welcomed. I'm like lucky that my parents will admit
Speaker 6: that for sure there was abuse going on. They'll admit
Speaker 6: to everything that happened in my teen years. It's just
Speaker 6: those years when I was really young, when they felt
Speaker 6: like they were trying to be good parents and weren't
Speaker 6: aware that he was taking me out of my bed,
Speaker 6: weren't aware that he was taking me out of school.
Speaker 6: It's really hard for them to like even go to
Speaker 6: the place where they might have put me in a
Speaker 6: school that would just be fine, like sending me off
Speaker 6: with someone random.
Speaker 5: Your case is a little bit different in the fact
Speaker 5: that you still were living with your parents. He was
Speaker 5: taking you out of your home, out of school. He
Speaker 5: was doing this right under the nose of your parents
Speaker 5: when he loved that, which they don't. Which most cases,
Speaker 5: as you said, aren't like that. Most cases are the
Speaker 5: child becomes adductive, they become a missing child, and then
Speaker 5: they're never heard from again, if.
Speaker 1: Or they're born into the groups under.
Speaker 7: Someone Sure, if.
Speaker 5: You're a parent, if a parent is watching this and
Speaker 5: their child might be going through this in a similar
Speaker 5: situation to you, where it's happening right under their nose,
Speaker 5: their child is still living with them, still coming home.
Speaker 7: What sort of red flag should they be looking for?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 7: My god, how does a parent know? What should a
Speaker 7: parent do?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: Instead of me saying what a parent do, it's sort
Speaker 6: of like what a parent shouldn't do. The only way
Speaker 6: that I'm not I'm not gonna sugar go you. These
Speaker 6: people will not target healthy families. They target unhealthy families.
Speaker 6: So they are only going to target children who are
Speaker 6: to some degree isolated from the rest of the group.
Speaker 6: Now that isolation can be a physical one like we
Speaker 6: see where a parent has to work so much to
Speaker 6: their kids, like meandering around after hours, or it can
Speaker 6: be like in my case, an emotional rift between parents
Speaker 6: and child, which makes the the you know, they can
Speaker 6: feel that in the second perpetrators can. So what I
Speaker 6: would say is, don't create the conditions in the first
Speaker 6: place for that to happen. If you have a kid
Speaker 6: you don't relate to, then really you got to try
Speaker 6: to relate to them. Most parents don't really try to
Speaker 6: understand their children because to do that they sometimes have
Speaker 6: to admit that they're doing something wrong. And most parents
Speaker 6: are like a lot more interested in defending the idea
Speaker 6: that they're good parents than opening themselves up to the
Speaker 6: possibility that they're creating a condition.
Speaker 1: Which is painful for the child.
Speaker 6: Right, So I would say, like, the closer you can
Speaker 6: be to your children, the more that you can talk
Speaker 6: to them and understand them specifically, and the earlier you
Speaker 6: could talk to them about what's appropriate versus not appropriate,
Speaker 6: the better. I mean, my parents talk to me about
Speaker 6: sex when I was nine, ten eleven, and I had
Speaker 6: already been being raped for like four years, so it's
Speaker 6: a little too late. So I feel like, you know,
Speaker 6: if we're doing the right thing, it's that we're making
Speaker 6: the preparatory things. We're doing the preparatory things correctly instead
Speaker 6: of like remedying the situation after it's already occurred. Major
Speaker 6: red flags for abuse. Cutting is a huge one. Self
Speaker 6: abuse is like any kind of self abuse, not just
Speaker 6: cutting is a huge red flag for abuse.
Speaker 1: Another good one.
Speaker 6: Would be like dissociative states. Kids who are getting abused
Speaker 6: tend to have a very difficult time with staying in reality.
Speaker 6: They have an issue focusing, or they may be so
Speaker 6: hyper focused. That's another thing that they do to try
Speaker 6: to cope is they'll like hyper focus on something and
Speaker 6: they won't want to watch you or listen to you.
Speaker 6: It's almost like an autistic type of behavior. Another thing
Speaker 6: is they'll have frequent especially girls if they're getting sexually abused,
Speaker 6: that you're gonna see lots and lots of urinary tract infections.
Speaker 6: Their immune system is gonna get targeted first. They'll have
Speaker 6: a lot of weird sicknesses. Headaches are a super common
Speaker 6: one too, that kids will just have unexplicable headaches all
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 1: And that's another big tip off there too.
Speaker 6: You'll see this like measure withdrawal and sort of sadness
Speaker 6: happen in them.
Speaker 1: You know, it's gotten to the point.
Speaker 6: It's difficult for me, of Chris, because you could probably
Speaker 6: look up with like lots of signs to your kids
Speaker 6: getting abused somewhere. But from the stand point as somebody
Speaker 6: who's in my position, where I've been in that scenario
Speaker 6: and I've been around it, I can recognize it in
Speaker 6: ten seconds. You can feel it on people when they've
Speaker 6: been hurt by someone you know. And I think the
Speaker 6: issue too with apparents is that they're What I would
Speaker 6: say is, don't latch onto the idea that you know
Speaker 6: everything about the people that you are spending time with
Speaker 6: like friends and family members, because sometimes we are so
Speaker 6: addicted to buying into a facade that means our family's wonderful,
Speaker 6: and family is everything that we can't recognize when the
Speaker 6: uncle's doing something, or when the dad is doing something,
Speaker 6: or when the aunt is doing something, or when the
Speaker 6: sister or sister in law is doing something. So I
Speaker 6: think that for a lot of us, it's the fact
Speaker 6: that we have this addiction to maintaining an idea which
Speaker 6: makes us feel good that we have closed our eyes
Speaker 6: to the ability to even see these things going on
Speaker 6: in the first place. So what I would say to
Speaker 6: people is be willing to question everything you think.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 6: You got to really be open otherwise you're not gonna
Speaker 6: see this stuff because it's not gonna benefit you to.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it.
Speaker 6: Would you rather believe that your brother is abusing your
Speaker 6: daughter or would you rather believe that he's a good
Speaker 6: guy and that something else is wrong with your dad.
Speaker 6: It's a lot easier to believe that this stuff doesn't
Speaker 6: go on than does.
Speaker 1: Go on her.
Speaker 4: But see, I feel sorry for my baby because I'm
Speaker 4: gonna be the exact opposite parent I'm gonna accuse everyone.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna try not to, but I don't. I mean,
Speaker 4: there was a lady. I have a front pack. I
Speaker 4: have it on right now. Actually he loves it. He
Speaker 4: loves to be close to me. But I had him
Speaker 4: in my front pack at the grocery store and I
Speaker 4: was just minding my own business, shopping, you know, getting
Speaker 4: a little gross. And this older lady, grandma, age lady,
Speaker 4: she come up. She come up on us, and he
Speaker 4: had a little T shirt on that day, and she
Speaker 4: rubbed his elbow and she said, oh my goodness, you
Speaker 4: got a little angel in your hands. I said, thank you,
Speaker 4: turned away and got the fuck out of the aisle.
Speaker 4: She was trying to molestize his arm. I am, I
Speaker 4: don't care if you're old. I don't care if you disabled.
Speaker 4: I don't care if you identify as a minority. Okay,
Speaker 4: don't put your hands upon my child. She tried to
Speaker 4: molestize his elbow in the middle of the grocery store. Listen, people,
Speaker 4: he ain't doing a sleepover. He ain't doing a boy scout,
Speaker 4: he ain't doing a North Fox Island retreat, he ain't
Speaker 4: doing a Disney cruise, ain't doing it. He's gonna hate
Speaker 4: me later, but at least his beehole will be normal sized.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. It's just in date cares too.
Speaker 4: Fuck a daycare. Fuck a daycare. I will live in
Speaker 4: my car before I have to work and put them
Speaker 4: in a daycare. And if you are a parent that
Speaker 4: uses daycarriage, listen, I ain't judging you. I'm just saying,
Speaker 4: be close with your kids. Ask them questions, ask them
Speaker 4: about their teachers. Be up in that bitch, Be a
Speaker 4: presence in that daycare. Make it to where they understand
Speaker 4: when Julia shows up, it's all business. Okay. Be inspecting
Speaker 4: that bitch. Be interviewing those fuckers up in there. Okay,
Speaker 4: make them scared of you, all right. But anyways, I'm
Speaker 4: enjoying this interview here. I might have to grab the cheetos.
Speaker 4: The cheetos because uh, you know, I like to be
Speaker 4: on the watch parties. I like to be having a
Speaker 4: little snack.
Speaker 5: If somebody is watching this and they're living this life,
Speaker 5: they're in a position what run? What would you say
Speaker 5: to them? How did they escape? How did they give
Speaker 5: back to normalacy? So to speak.
Speaker 1: It's just so.
Speaker 6: For anybody who's going through this type of a group.
Speaker 6: It's like, what I'm gonna say is gonna fall in
Speaker 6: deaf ears, because there is when you control a child.
Speaker 6: I mean, look at an elephant, right, You tie an
Speaker 6: elephant who's a baby to a giant trunk and he
Speaker 6: can't move the trunk. When that elephant is old enough
Speaker 6: that he could move it.
Speaker 1: Like that, he's not gonna move.
Speaker 6: So we're in that same kind of position psychologically with
Speaker 6: these people who don't understand.
Speaker 1: That you're you're perpetrators.
Speaker 6: Even though they could do anything they wanted with you
Speaker 6: and you were your children, they can't do that to
Speaker 6: you when you're older. So the first thing that I
Speaker 6: would say is run as fast as you can find
Speaker 6: a scenario. And you know that there's those loopholes all
Speaker 6: of us have dreamed about it where you just like,
Speaker 6: if it doesn't matter whether that's a stranger, just run
Speaker 6: to whoever the first person that you see is that
Speaker 6: could possibly hide you from this type of scenario. And
Speaker 6: I would have it be somebody outside the family, especially
Speaker 6: if you're in part of the group is like part
Speaker 6: of the family dynamic. I would have to be somebody
Speaker 6: completely unrelated. Now, people who are watching who part of
Speaker 6: these groups are gonna know what I mean, because you
Speaker 6: get so adept at reading people when your survival depends
Speaker 6: on them that you can kind of feel what person's
Speaker 6: gonna be protective? What person isn't you know what I mean. Also, yeah,
Speaker 6: I think i'd say that about escaping. I would just
Speaker 6: tell them to get away. Like, however, it's wrong because
Speaker 6: it doesn't occur to you when you're in the.
Speaker 1: Middle of it that you can. But you can. You can.
Speaker 1: You can't because like part of the rule is that
Speaker 1: they don't get to go get you. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: if you want me to tell you.
Speaker 6: The main reason that I'm not back there because they
Speaker 6: haven't loaded me in a truck is because that's against.
Speaker 1: The programming rules. We have to be like dogs who
Speaker 1: come back home.
Speaker 6: Otherwise they don't have total control and if they ever
Speaker 6: do get you, they're gonna kill you. So basically, run
Speaker 6: as fast as you can to run to the first place.
Speaker 6: If you can find a police department, that's even better,
Speaker 6: because I mean, now it wasn't like it was when
Speaker 6: I was younger.
Speaker 1: If you walk through the door and you're like.
Speaker 6: I'm getting torture, this is what's happening, I'm getting abused
Speaker 6: there After me, your average policeman who's heard about this
Speaker 6: stuff already is gonna be like, all right, we're not
Speaker 6: gonna release you. We're gonna call a child psychologist. We're
Speaker 6: gonna like, not let you leave here until we make
Speaker 6: sure that's not happening. Sure, let's hope that would.
Speaker 7: Be the reaction.
Speaker 5: You mentioned before the interview that this is happening a
Speaker 5: lot in Idaho, Utah. You mentioned Boise, what should I,
Speaker 5: as the average person, be looking for to know that
Speaker 5: this is going on? Where does this happen at and
Speaker 5: what sort of things are happening.
Speaker 1: The rural areas are the worst.
Speaker 6: If anybody is doing like a typical sacrifice or something,
Speaker 6: they can't be miles and miles out. And so usually
Speaker 6: what it is is they'll pick a side canyon somewhere
Speaker 6: that has like an overhang or a cave or something
Speaker 6: like that, and they'll do the rituals there, or else
Speaker 6: they'll pick private property. Let's say that a member of
Speaker 6: the group has like a huge, like a huge place
Speaker 6: property with fields.
Speaker 1: They'll pick those kinds of places.
Speaker 6: What I would say, I'm not really worried about you
Speaker 6: specifically because people who work in the news, they've kind
Speaker 6: of had their eyes up until a lot of the
Speaker 6: messed up stuff that's happening. What I would basically say
Speaker 6: to anybody is that you got to look for anything
Speaker 6: that's that's abnormal, And I would say report anything, Report
Speaker 6: anything that that even remotely triggers you this your this
Speaker 6: might not be okay type of thing, because like, for example,
Speaker 6: when I was younger, I was eleven years old, one
Speaker 6: of the things that my particular portrayer used to do
Speaker 6: all the time is to keep me in these these
Speaker 6: bird ties that were like sort of like horse hobbles
Speaker 6: or else. These have you ever seen, Like what falconers
Speaker 6: use is like really thin.
Speaker 1: Rope that they tie.
Speaker 6: So he would hog time me with my wrist, my ankles,
Speaker 6: and I'd spend days that way sometimes and you wouldn't
Speaker 6: feed me.
Speaker 1: But this one time.
Speaker 6: It was like probably eleven o'clock in the morning and
Speaker 6: middle of the workday, and he took me out of
Speaker 6: the back of his truck and put me hog tide
Speaker 6: in this parking.
Speaker 1: Lot with tons of people around, I mean like tons.
Speaker 6: It was lunch hour. There was a group of three
Speaker 6: women at this particular point, who were walking into the
Speaker 6: subway station store right by there.
Speaker 1: They passed me.
Speaker 6: All of them watched me hogtide on the floor, and
Speaker 6: they looked at him, and they looked at me, and
Speaker 6: they looked at him and looked at me, and then
Speaker 6: they just kept walking. I know that in their minds,
Speaker 6: the part of them was like, this is not okay,
Speaker 6: but we've got this don't interfere in other people's lives
Speaker 6: type of attitude. Now that one of those women calling
Speaker 6: a police officer could have potentially saved the next how
Speaker 6: many years of my life you were eleven, So the
Speaker 6: next eight years of my life that I spent torture,
Speaker 6: it could have been prevented by one of those women
Speaker 6: calling in. So it's like if you see something bizarre,
Speaker 6: if you see a parent that's treating a child bizarrely,
Speaker 6: don't assume.
Speaker 1: They're the parent. That's another thing too.
Speaker 6: People assumed that he was my parents like a lot,
Speaker 6: and he would tell them that this is my daughter
Speaker 6: when he wasn't my parent. So so we like to
Speaker 6: assume a lot when we see things that are that
Speaker 6: don't fit in with how we feel, because we don't
Speaker 6: like to trust how we feel now, I would, honestly,
Speaker 6: god say like it's worth it to call a police
Speaker 6: office eight times and be sort of off base about
Speaker 6: what's going on for the one time when you call
Speaker 6: and it's like, oh my gosh, we just found Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 6: You know, That's what I would say, because I mean,
Speaker 6: unless you trip across something like that, you're not going
Speaker 6: to know this stuff exists. They're doing it in their basements.
Speaker 6: They're picking kids who are not going to be recognized,
Speaker 6: and if they show up on a missing poster, they're
Speaker 6: just gonna be one of a million names. You should
Speaker 6: go look up those figures if you ever want to
Speaker 6: get really cricked out by the way, Yeah.
Speaker 5: You said that he mentioned to people that you were
Speaker 5: his daughter a lot. Oh yeah, why not speak up
Speaker 5: when you were when these people around and say no,
Speaker 5: help me.
Speaker 1: Well, so I'll tell you.
Speaker 6: One of the very first programming sessions that I went through,
Speaker 6: aside from that one where I was bonded to him,
Speaker 6: was another scenario where I was, yet.
Speaker 1: Again put on a lecture shop.
Speaker 6: And basically they can use they can do this just
Speaker 6: by putting you in like an isolation tank, which they
Speaker 6: like using, or they can do it just by depriving
Speaker 6: your senses, which they like doing, or they can use
Speaker 6: one of these these medications which put your mind in
Speaker 6: a more suggestible state life ketamine, where essentially he walked
Speaker 6: me through visualization. So we all know that that, Like
Speaker 6: if you monitor a person's heart rate and you hook
Speaker 6: them up to a guided meditation.
Speaker 1: Say, I was gonna say, okay, now, now you're gonna imagine.
Speaker 6: A nice, peaceful meadow, right, if I walk you through that,
Speaker 6: it will be very real to your mind. You're gonna
Speaker 6: be in that meadow, You're gonna be touching the grass,
Speaker 6: you're gonna be feeling the breeze. What they do in
Speaker 6: these groups is they use meditations and visualizations along with
Speaker 6: breathing techniques to induce immense amounts of trauma and to
Speaker 6: program the subconscious mind. So one of the first programs
Speaker 6: that was done on me like that, he had me
Speaker 6: breathing and then go through an elaborate visualization where he
Speaker 6: was walking me through my home having just told okay,
Speaker 6: you just told people about me, and you just told
Speaker 6: people who you really are. So what do you see
Speaker 6: hanging from the rafters?
Speaker 1: I shrugged my shoulders.
Speaker 6: He goes you see that that's your mother. Do you
Speaker 6: see that she's missing her skin, someone has taken it
Speaker 6: all off of her body because you said something. Do
Speaker 6: you see that her blood is all over the floor,
Speaker 6: Go touch it? So there were walking these children like
Speaker 6: they were walking me, basically through the elaborate scenaries about
Speaker 6: exactly what will happen. See, it's not enough for these
Speaker 6: groups to say we're gonna kill everyone and to just
Speaker 6: say that.
Speaker 1: They actually walk you through the.
Speaker 6: Scenario of you know, my mother being having her skin
Speaker 6: filaid off of her body, hung from the rafters, having
Speaker 6: my father decapitated, helping my brother be eaten and disemboweled,
Speaker 6: like all of that.
Speaker 1: Basically I was walked through that step by step.
Speaker 6: My brother was the real one that he used against me,
Speaker 6: because they're like, we're gonna take him if you say anything.
Speaker 1: So why would you not believe?
Speaker 8: That?
Speaker 6: Is the question for a small child. So I believed
Speaker 6: every word he said and was completely convinced that that
Speaker 6: would happen. And then when you get older and you
Speaker 6: are participating more in the group, it's programming sessions about
Speaker 6: how the.
Speaker 1: Cops are gonna come after you. You're gonna be stuck in
Speaker 1: a jail cell forever.
Speaker 6: So you the last thing you want is ad so
Speaker 6: now you're bonded with them and you're sort of against
Speaker 6: the good guys type of a thing.
Speaker 1: So that's why I didn't say anything, and.
Speaker 6: I didn't I didn't know that he was wrong about
Speaker 6: that too, because that was what it wasn't just that
Speaker 6: you told people. He told me that he was my
Speaker 6: real father. Your mother's a horse, she's slept with me,
Speaker 6: and I'm your real father. That's why you don't look
Speaker 6: like your real dad.
Speaker 1: You look like me.
Speaker 6: And so he was confusing too because my parents would
Speaker 6: say things growing up. See, like my parents, the number
Speaker 6: one joke when I was growing up is that the
Speaker 6: bees waxes have our baby. It's the fact that when
Speaker 6: I was rolled in when I was younger, and when
Speaker 6: I was first born, they rolled me into the delivery
Speaker 6: room and the Hispanic staff at the place that I
Speaker 6: was born couldn't pronounce my last name, and so they
Speaker 6: wrote beeswax. And so the joke forever growing up was
Speaker 6: the beeswaxes have our baby. That there was some switch there,
Speaker 6: and you know, it was super funny to my parents,
Speaker 6: who didn't like understand me or get along to me,
Speaker 6: super sad to me, like a soul crushing as a
Speaker 6: child to have that joke be spread around as a kid,
Speaker 6: because it means that, you know, serf does plant to
Speaker 6: see like I don't fit into the family, and so
Speaker 6: they're like, we don't know where those like really Asian
Speaker 6: looking eyes came from and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And my perpetrator was really quite handsome. He's not.
Speaker 6: It wasn't like this decrepit old person that you'd expect.
Speaker 6: And so when he would bring up stuff like that
Speaker 6: to me, like look at our eye shape as the same,
Speaker 6: or you know I had dark hair and everyone else
Speaker 6: in your family was born with light hair. I was
Speaker 6: the only person in my family born with dark hair.
Speaker 6: So I'm like, all right, maybe he really is my
Speaker 6: real type of thing. I had no reason to doubt
Speaker 6: that either, especially given that I didn't. I mean, he's
Speaker 6: capitalizing like they all do. People who are majorly successful perpetrators.
Speaker 6: They capitalize on truths, and that's why they get so
Speaker 6: good at telling lies. If you if you tell eight
Speaker 6: truths in one lie, the person was gonna accept the lies.
Speaker 6: So he was basically working on what he already saw
Speaker 6: prison Like I said, to do exactly what he did.
Speaker 1: I had no reason to doubt that.
Speaker 6: So if he was like sitting there, like he was
Speaker 6: off with me at a cafe and would say something
Speaker 6: like that, I had no reason to.
Speaker 1: Come up against it.
Speaker 6: Besides, there's consequences coming up against him.
Speaker 1: Oh big ones.
Speaker 5: You obviously believe this happened to you, truly believe that.
Speaker 5: Do you ever doubt that maybe this is just some
Speaker 5: sort of nightmare that you had and you've just relived it,
Speaker 5: Or do you ever doubt that this happened to you?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 7: Ever? No, because you know.
Speaker 6: I'll put it this way. Give me the last birthday
Speaker 6: party you remember my.
Speaker 7: Gosh, probably my sister's. Yeah, do you.
Speaker 1: Doubt it happened? No, same thing.
Speaker 6: It's not that these memories are not obscure. It's not
Speaker 6: like I'm grasping at them. They're just as real as
Speaker 6: what did you eat yesterday?
Speaker 1: You can remember that. You may not be able to
Speaker 1: tell me what.
Speaker 6: The person and the fifth row was wearing, right, But
Speaker 6: it's like, you know, people love to think that that
Speaker 6: everybody questions trauma memory. But I'm like, it's somebody asking me, like,
Speaker 6: how do you know what happened It's the same as
Speaker 6: me asking you, how do you know that you had
Speaker 6: a birthday party when you were five years old?
Speaker 1: I don't believe you that happened. What wait? What you know?
Speaker 6: People only question memory when it when they don't want
Speaker 6: to believe the reality of something.
Speaker 1: That's the truth.
Speaker 5: And you're you've accepted this, and so you're willing to
Speaker 5: not think you're willing to admit that this happened because
Speaker 5: you've accepted it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, be saying that this didn't happen. It's
Speaker 6: like that's lying to myself, the same as somebody trying
Speaker 6: to convince themselves that they didn't go to the grade
Speaker 6: school they went to. It's like it would be that
Speaker 6: extremity of lying to myself.
Speaker 7: Sure do you have? Does has this caused you to
Speaker 7: have trust issues with people?
Speaker 1: To yes? Oh yeah, I'll admit it.
Speaker 6: I mean I'm horrible trusting people, but I'm also horrible
Speaker 6: at living a guarded life because it feels like craps.
Speaker 5: So yeah, and you went public because you wanted to.
Speaker 5: You wanted to hide, but your way of hiding was
Speaker 5: to go public so that if you went missing, Yes,
Speaker 5: it was like, oh where's till I.
Speaker 6: Well, I wanted to hide, but I also wanted to
Speaker 6: I also wanted to be like the forerunner for other
Speaker 6: women to be brave enough to do it.
Speaker 5: So I'm when Doug reached out to you and you
Speaker 5: agreed to do this interview, what was your reasoning for
Speaker 5: agreeing to do it?
Speaker 6: You know, at first I was like, he's gonna be
Speaker 6: just like the Herald Geral, They're just gonna.
Speaker 1: Try this credit me. I don't know, oh my god.
Speaker 1: But I was like, I didn't have that feeling.
Speaker 6: I know that I talk about feelings a lot, but
Speaker 6: I honestly believe that you got to trust your feelings
Speaker 6: because I didn't so much when I was younger, and
Speaker 6: that's what got me into so much trouble. So now
Speaker 6: it's like, I tried to listen to my emotions, and
Speaker 6: when I was trying to listen to my emotions about
Speaker 6: this particular interview, I didn't have this horrible feel to it,
Speaker 6: and I was like, you know, I'm gonna become okay
Speaker 6: if he wants to discredit me and basically do exectly
Speaker 6: what the Erald Journal did and make me seem like
Speaker 6: some completely raving lunatic, I have to be okay with that,
Speaker 6: because I have to understand the motive that people would
Speaker 6: have for doing that, and I have to also understand
Speaker 6: that it doesn't change my day to day life, like honestly,
Speaker 6: what I'm doing for a career.
Speaker 1: Now, regardless of what reporters say or.
Speaker 6: Don't say, having people write me letters who are part
Speaker 6: of these groups and say thank god you said something
Speaker 6: because I don't have the bravery, but it's like you say,
Speaker 6: some part of my life saying this, It's like I
Speaker 6: still have that, yeah, and it's still worth it, regardless
Speaker 6: of what people in the mainstream say. So on the
Speaker 6: off chance that that wasn't the case, which I didn't
Speaker 6: feel like it was the case, I was like, you know,
Speaker 6: maybe there will be somebody in the area, because honestly,
Speaker 6: you're a particular news station you're coming from is in
Speaker 6: the area this stuff goes on. So if there's somebody
Speaker 6: watching this, maybe maybe one person will be saved.
Speaker 5: Sure, and you don't You've never wanted during this interview
Speaker 5: named your perpetrator.
Speaker 7: You're keeper.
Speaker 1: I named it in the police reports. Here's the issue.
Speaker 6: And this was like this was explained to me like
Speaker 6: very explicitly by the police. Both the police department and
Speaker 6: by like separate attorneys and people that if I name
Speaker 6: the perpetrator publicly basically without the trial going through.
Speaker 1: Sure right now, not only does that flush the pheasants.
Speaker 1: What that means is that basically it gives.
Speaker 6: Them an opportunity to stash evidence, but also I can
Speaker 6: be sued for defamation character right, So that's the only
Speaker 6: reason that I know.
Speaker 5: So it's not any sort of trying to protect him,
Speaker 5: it's just the legality of the situation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Now I've gone into because I've become so incredibly
Speaker 6: spiritually active, I've gone through a hell of a lot
Speaker 6: of process.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're looking when you're looking at me, you're
Speaker 1: looking at eleven.
Speaker 6: Years aging of dealing with this type of stuff on
Speaker 6: a daily basis. I've come to a very interest space
Speaker 6: of forgiveness. Not yet for my parents, but for him.
Speaker 6: Took me years. I mean I went through years of
Speaker 6: wanting to burn him, shoot him, like so much rage.
Speaker 6: I can't tell you I wanted to burn my whole
Speaker 6: childhood to the ground.
Speaker 1: But after going.
Speaker 6: Through that process, it's what's interesting is that I got
Speaker 6: a front row seat basically to the amount of suffering
Speaker 6: that these people go through that end up in these.
Speaker 1: Types of situations.
Speaker 6: I don't actually agree with the people who are coming
Speaker 6: up with these theories that the psychopathy is something which
Speaker 6: is inborn and genetic. I don't believe that because I
Speaker 6: got a front receipt to more than a few of
Speaker 6: these people, and the reality is that they come from
Speaker 6: extremely traumatic situations and that's what turns them off emotionally
Speaker 6: and makes them not only want to but capable of
Speaker 6: doing the things that.
Speaker 7: They keep doing.
Speaker 6: So when you get a front row seat to the
Speaker 6: suffering which creates the very condition that makes these people
Speaker 6: the way they are, I can't hate them with the
Speaker 6: same amount of vehemence, I guess as I did to
Speaker 6: begin with. So in my sole progression, basically as I
Speaker 6: would say it, I don't desire him to come to
Speaker 6: a mes amount of harm. You know, It's not like
Speaker 6: I'm like rooting for there to be justice. There's no
Speaker 6: justice in somebody getting put away. The justice is in
Speaker 6: somebody living a happy life. The justice is in somebody
Speaker 6: getting out of a situation like that and finding a
Speaker 6: way to forgive and to make something beautiful. There's no
Speaker 6: justice that can be found in somebody sitting in a
Speaker 6: jail cell. So regardless of whether I I don't want
Speaker 6: other people to go through this kind of stuff, but
Speaker 6: I don't have immense amounts of pain that there's no
Speaker 6: justice in the situation. I feel amense amounts of justice
Speaker 6: in the situation. I've done a very good job.
Speaker 1: It's my life.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm just petty, but I'm more of an eye
Speaker 4: for an eye type of bitch. And I'm so glad
Speaker 4: that she's gotten forgiveness or whatever it is that she's
Speaker 4: acquired through her cell searching. I don't be doing any
Speaker 4: soul searching. I will tell you straight up, if somebody
Speaker 4: was to ever to ever try this on my child,
Speaker 4: I would be law abiding citizen up in this bitch.
Speaker 4: I would be cutting dickson lips off eyelids, the whole nine.
Speaker 4: I ain't talking about a jail cell. I'm talking about
Speaker 4: time to a car and dragon. Okay. So I'm glad
Speaker 4: that she is able to find serenity and peace and forgiveness.
Speaker 4: I'm very happy for her. I'm gonna cut a bitch
Speaker 4: just saying.
Speaker 5: You've forgiven you're a keeper. Oh yeah, but not your parents.
Speaker 5: When you hear that, it almost seems backwards, like you
Speaker 5: would forgive your parents because your parents didn't know what's
Speaker 5: going on. Your perpetrator is the one that inflicted this
Speaker 5: caught harm and pain on you, explaining me, explain to
Speaker 5: me the logic I guess behind that forgiveness that you've
Speaker 5: come to.
Speaker 6: If you want to use a psychological term, it's called
Speaker 6: bystander trauma. Usually what you'll find is that if there
Speaker 6: is a perpetrator and a bystander, the person will find
Speaker 6: it the hardest to forgive the bystander.
Speaker 1: And it's no different with me, because it's.
Speaker 6: Like I've had to sort of accept the fact, especially recently,
Speaker 6: that this wouldn't have happened unless there was already pain
Speaker 6: there with my parents and I. This wouldn't have happened
Speaker 6: if we were a really healthy, happy family together. I
Speaker 6: really belonged to everything. So yeah, it's way harder for
Speaker 6: me to forgive all of that. I mean, I can
Speaker 6: under I can at least relate more to his mentality
Speaker 6: being so traumatized as a child and then ending up
Speaker 6: this way. What's difficult for me is watching people who
Speaker 6: are quote supposed to love and protect me fail at
Speaker 6: it over and over and over and then continue to
Speaker 6: fail at it now that I'm adult. That's the real
Speaker 6: reason we're not talking to each other, and that's why
Speaker 6: it's so difficult for me to just forgive it. It's
Speaker 6: not because of what they did, who they're doing. I mean,
Speaker 6: how are you supposed to forgive somebody that will look
Speaker 6: you in the face and say, well, we're willing to accept
Speaker 6: that something.
Speaker 1: Definitely happened, but not all of it.
Speaker 7: Sure.
Speaker 1: It's like.
Speaker 6: I mean, I like to compare it sometimes to telling
Speaker 6: fundamentalists Christian parents that you're gay. It's like if your
Speaker 6: parents say, well, okay, but we don't really believe that
Speaker 6: people can be gay, so we're not gonna accept all
Speaker 6: of that story. Then it's like some part of you
Speaker 6: can't really fully be seen by these people. And I mean,
Speaker 6: my parents would love it. It's because they're in pain.
Speaker 6: I will admit my parents. I mean, my parents' life
Speaker 6: was turned upside down with me. It was their life
Speaker 6: turned to help because of what happened too. But it's
Speaker 6: just this, it's like, if not all of me can
Speaker 6: be seen by them, and they want me to move
Speaker 6: forward like anyone would, let's just get over it and
Speaker 6: let's just move on. But the reality of acute trauma
Speaker 6: like I went through is that my reality is I
Speaker 6: don't just get to move on. I mean, I still
Speaker 6: I still suffer the aftermath of it all the time.
Speaker 6: I still I'm learning how to pull myself out of
Speaker 6: seizures just now, but I still have dissociative seizures. I
Speaker 6: get triggered by things randomly. I can't go watch movies
Speaker 6: because the previews might have something which is, you know,
Speaker 6: reminds me of the past, and then I'm gone, basically
Speaker 6: lost consciousness. I have immense relationship trouble. So it's like,
Speaker 6: you know, it doesn't work to just move on from
Speaker 6: something like that because it's so much of a part
Speaker 6: of your life. It's sort of like if you've lost
Speaker 6: your limbs at war. People say, well, just forget it
Speaker 6: and move on with your life, and you're like, well,
Speaker 6: I could, but I can't really walk upstairs anymore. So
Speaker 6: it's a little bit hard when you have the reminder
Speaker 6: twenty four hours a day, and when when your parents
Speaker 6: call and say, how is your weak? I can't tell
Speaker 6: them the truth because the truth is it was really
Speaker 6: bad because I had to relive this. You ull trauma
Speaker 6: that happened, And I'm struggling because my son has hit
Speaker 6: this certain age that triggers me, and I'm panicked about
Speaker 6: him getting taken. When you can't share those kinds ofdential,
Speaker 6: your family is a little bit difficult to have, like
Speaker 6: a really close relationship. Sure, But then so that's why
Speaker 6: I'm still I'm working to try to forgive them. But
Speaker 6: I also don't believe that forgiveness can be forced. That's
Speaker 6: something which I think a lot of people should know,
Speaker 6: especially if they've gotten away from groups and are watching
Speaker 6: this right now. They're like, you cannot force forgiveness. We
Speaker 6: can use the word I forgave my perpetrator, I forgave
Speaker 6: my parents. The reality is is that you can't force that.
Speaker 6: It's an organic experience which happens in and of itself.
Speaker 6: And the minute you can look back and approve of
Speaker 6: what basically happened in your life is the moment you've
Speaker 6: forgiven somebody. Until then it hasn't happened. So you can't
Speaker 6: just say I forgive them and have it be true.
Speaker 7: And you have a son, Now does he know what
Speaker 7: happened to you? How old is he?
Speaker 6: Not?
Speaker 1: Every detail? He's five?
Speaker 6: Okay, not every single detail, honestly, cause I don't want
Speaker 6: to traumatize a hell of him.
Speaker 1: But I don't believe in keeping secret from him. I mean,
Speaker 1: he knows that Mommy gets triggered.
Speaker 6: He knows that Mommy loves his consciousness sometimes, and and.
Speaker 1: You know, he he's really cute.
Speaker 6: Like the other day we were watching this a program
Speaker 6: on dinosaurs and there was like a a gory scene
Speaker 6: in the dinosaur movie and he jumped across the couch
Speaker 6: and covered my eyes.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's like, Mommy shouldn't see this. Mommy shouldn't
Speaker 1: see this. Push pause, and so on. One half of
Speaker 1: it's like, one half of me feels bad.
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh my gosh, Like.
Speaker 6: It's sad that my son has to deal with this.
Speaker 6: On the other side, it's like, because he understands what's
Speaker 6: going on with mommy, he is actually turning into a
Speaker 6: more well rounded person. Besides it, I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 6: make sense to me the light of my kid. If
Speaker 6: I'm having trouble, I'll say the mommy is just having
Speaker 6: a hard tongue. So I had a really bad time
Speaker 6: when I was a little kid. When I was a
Speaker 6: little kid, people hurt me really bad. He understands that.
Speaker 6: So at this phase, instead of going into gruesome details,
Speaker 6: we're at that phase. He knows that mommy was hurt
Speaker 6: when she was little. He knows that mommy has trouble
Speaker 6: when she remembers certain things.
Speaker 1: And that's about where we are.
Speaker 5: So you have a long waist to go in your recovery. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you're Will you ever? Do you ever feel like you'll
Speaker 5: be fully recovered?
Speaker 6: I would love to think that it's possible, but I
Speaker 6: think if I'm attached to the idea of being in
Speaker 6: a completely healthy state, then there's some aspect of me
Speaker 6: that rejects where I am right now.
Speaker 4: And Okay, we're gonna skip to the end because this
Speaker 4: part was kind of boring. So this is her final thoughts,
Speaker 4: and then we'll have our final thoughts.
Speaker 5: So yeah, sure, if there was one message that you
Speaker 5: could give anybody that might be going through this, what
Speaker 5: would that message be?
Speaker 1: There's a reason for everything.
Speaker 6: I think that was the one question I had in
Speaker 6: my mind the whole time that I was going through
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 1: See, no, I don't know.
Speaker 9: Fuck, I wasn't bringing to cheese, you know, I promise
Speaker 9: myselways gonna maketuresbout crying didn't work.
Speaker 7: So you feel like what happened to you happened for
Speaker 7: a reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah it took me like so many years to see that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I spent I spent the majority of my
Speaker 1: time like and the whole.
Speaker 6: So I would say that the reason that this is
Speaker 6: happening is not the one you think it is right now, because.
Speaker 1: Most of us we go through these scenarios.
Speaker 6: We think that you know, what's happening cause we deserve it,
Speaker 6: or it's happening cause we're evil or some stupid thing
Speaker 6: like that.
Speaker 2: But sorry, I'm like, you're okay, sorry to be sorry.
Speaker 6: I'm still a little resistant to my emotions.
Speaker 7: I know you're okay.
Speaker 1: I feel really like horrible when I break down in
Speaker 1: front of people, cause I still am afraid of being
Speaker 1: like that much utterable.
Speaker 7: You know, sure?
Speaker 5: Do you do you know what y or do you
Speaker 5: have a belief of the reason why I think.
Speaker 1: Is that why I think I was.
Speaker 6: I think I was meant to bring your new information
Speaker 6: to this world about compassion in getting over things. So
Speaker 6: I don't think that we know how to do that.
Speaker 6: I don't think that we know what forgiveness really is,
Speaker 6: and I don't think you know why these things go on.
Speaker 6: And I feel like I have this amazing ability now
Speaker 6: and I'm watching it with people every day, and I'm
Speaker 6: only to teach people why this stuff occurs, but also
Speaker 6: what to do to prevent it. And I think that
Speaker 6: more than that I can. One of the major purposes
Speaker 6: is for me to be like an example for people who,
Speaker 6: especially women, who are going through these types of really
Speaker 6: painful things, to know that, you know what, this old
Speaker 6: paradigm of the fact that you're just damaged goes for
Speaker 6: the rest of your life.
Speaker 7: Is not true.
Speaker 6: So I feel like the m main purpose for this
Speaker 6: is this like beautiful image of life transformation which can
Speaker 6: occur and genuine forgiveness, not just feigned forgiveness, not just
Speaker 6: forget and get over it, like true, like soul altering forgiveness.
Speaker 6: I feel like I can teach that to the people
Speaker 6: of the world now. So yeah, I think that there's
Speaker 6: there's purpose every time that somebody goes through something. There's
Speaker 6: purpose when we look at something that's super traumatic happening
Speaker 6: in our lives and we just can't understand for the
Speaker 6: life of this, why the hell it's like the whinny question.
Speaker 6: It just means that we haven't gotten far enough away
Speaker 6: from the circumstance to see the bigger picture and what
Speaker 6: was torturing me when I was going through everything. It's
Speaker 6: just that, I mean, I racked my brain for why
Speaker 6: the hell this could be?
Speaker 1: Why it was? They mean, why the hell is this
Speaker 1: happening to me? Why am I the one? And I
Speaker 1: came up with a lot of painful explanations to that.
Speaker 6: So what I would tell people is that don't believe
Speaker 6: that you know a systemed judgment. There's always a bigger
Speaker 6: picture and a bigger reason why you would be going
Speaker 6: through these things. And if you're telling yourself a painful
Speaker 6: story like I'm going through it cause I'm evil, or
Speaker 6: I'm going through it cause I'm bad, it's not the
Speaker 6: reason that there's always a much more beautiful picture of
Speaker 6: why things happen to people the way they do that
Speaker 6: you can't see when you're in the middle of it.
Speaker 6: You can only see it when you put one foot
Speaker 6: in one of the other in the direction of healing.
Speaker 6: Then it's like organic. You don't have to even look
Speaker 6: for the purpose. It just falls in your lap one
Speaker 6: day and you're like Oh my god, I get it
Speaker 6: all of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Is there anything else that you that you want to
Speaker 5: talk about that you want to share if is there
Speaker 5: a message that you have?
Speaker 1: Mm? Let me think. I think there.
Speaker 6: We're in a time where we have to open up
Speaker 6: to these a lot darker aspects of the human psyche.
Speaker 6: You have to wouldn'mit that these things go on and
Speaker 6: we have to provide ways for both sides of the
Speaker 6: equation to heal. This is gonna be a main goal
Speaker 6: of my life. It's there's healing that needs to happen
Speaker 6: both sides of the gun. We need to basically create
Speaker 6: a way in our society for people who are perpetrators
Speaker 6: and people who are victims of perpetrators to get healing
Speaker 6: for the conditions which they're experiencing, which we're causing them
Speaker 6: to inflict this kind of pain on other fellow men. So,
Speaker 6: you know, the greater message is it's no kind of
Speaker 6: justice to condemn either party.
Speaker 1: That what I'm.
Speaker 6: Calling for is a m a mass movement of healing
Speaker 6: and integration where these people on both sides of the
Speaker 6: gun are having access to ways that they can find
Speaker 6: happiness and healing which we're not providing for them when
Speaker 6: they get thrown to jail cells and we're not providing
Speaker 6: for them when we get thrown to society and now
Speaker 6: we're damaged goods. I would want society to be a
Speaker 6: lot more adult and welcome both people with open arms
Speaker 6: into a space of let's do something about this. Let's
Speaker 6: not just put you in a corner and hope that
Speaker 6: that doesn't touch my family. Oh, it's touching your family.
Speaker 6: It's touching everybody's lives. This idea that we are separate
Speaker 6: from other people is an absolute illusion. If a girl
Speaker 6: gets taken, it does affect you, whether you're conscious of
Speaker 6: it or not. So I think this is our time
Speaker 6: to be responsible as a human race in general, regardless
Speaker 6: of our denominations. We should all just sort of come
Speaker 6: together and realize that we all want collective healing from people.
Speaker 6: And it's like if you if you were to take
Speaker 6: an airplane and fly over to like the Middle East
Speaker 6: right now, those people don't want any different than we knew.
Speaker 1: They want the same stuff. So if we could just
Speaker 1: like remove this l the lines.
Speaker 6: That we keep putting between ourselves and other people enough
Speaker 6: to really care and enough to help people, then this
Speaker 6: kind of stuff wouldn't happen in the first place. People
Speaker 6: can only do this kind of stuff when they are
Speaker 6: separated enough that nobody cares. When they're separated in nothing notices.
Speaker 5: You had said earlier that you were you had self mutilation,
Speaker 5: you had the scars on your ribs.
Speaker 7: Do looking at those scars every day? What is that
Speaker 7: like for you?
Speaker 1: I actually like them.
Speaker 6: I love This sounds kind of funny. It's not like
Speaker 6: I get said every time I look at them. Instead,
Speaker 6: it's like it's like a road map of where I've been.
Speaker 6: And maybe that's a coping skill of mine to try
Speaker 6: to deal with.
Speaker 1: The pain of my childhood. But I mean I did.
Speaker 6: I covered most of my scars that were inflicted on
Speaker 6: me by other people with tattoos as you can see, sure,
Speaker 6: But it's like I look at these scars now and
Speaker 6: I can't hate where I've been without hating where I
Speaker 6: am so so I I look at them and it's
Speaker 6: like I can tell based on like like this one,
Speaker 6: for example, was made by the group during a ritual.
Speaker 6: I can feel the feeling where I was then and
Speaker 6: versus the feeling life I've created now, And it's like
Speaker 6: this really pretty road map of a sole progression.
Speaker 7: Sure, is there anything else that you wanna talk about?
Speaker 7: I can think of how did you have a time?
Speaker 7: There's a strong.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is different. Well, I don't know what's well.
Speaker 6: They could look up the dates on the basic Satanic
Speaker 6: virtual side, like if you wanted to, you could look
Speaker 6: up sr A dates and it'll show you all of
Speaker 6: the Satanic r A. Yeah, Satanic Ritual Association. It'll tell
Speaker 6: you basically all of the the typical dates which they
Speaker 6: use for their right. Now, it's worth mentioning that when
Speaker 6: these perpetrators, when they target children, they target the same
Speaker 6: profile of the child. So also, if you really wanna
Speaker 6: know like who is gonna be targeted, you should pay
Speaker 6: close attention to your children and their personality types. So
Speaker 6: there's an interesting study that was done now I knocking
Speaker 6: remember the exact one. But what they did is they
Speaker 6: took a bunch of pedophile killers like people who killed children,
Speaker 6: out of the maximum security PRISM and they took them
Speaker 6: to them all of America, and they gave them all
Speaker 6: polaroid cameras and sent them out separately to take pictures
Speaker 6: of the children which they would normally target because they
Speaker 6: wanted to see if they could find like a typical
Speaker 6: sort of similarity. I think it was four out of
Speaker 6: five of these people picked to the same kid. And
Speaker 6: so what they've found basically what they were, what these
Speaker 6: people helped them with cause to our obvious benefit, a
Speaker 6: lot of these serious sociopaths are actually proud of what
Speaker 6: they've done, so they're pretty glad to brag about it and.
Speaker 1: Talk to you about it.
Speaker 6: They profile for children who have a very interesting personality type.
Speaker 6: They have to be very shy and quiet, but very strong.
Speaker 6: If you get shy but weak, they will they'll break.
Speaker 1: Down, their body will go to hell.
Speaker 6: Like they may not tell somebody, but you're gonna just
Speaker 6: like lose your subject. Basically, if they're strong, then obviously
Speaker 6: they're gonna fight back, especially if they're strong and loud.
Speaker 6: But if you find strong and quiet, that kid's gonna
Speaker 6: internalize a hell of a lot and at the same
Speaker 6: time they're not gonna say anything. So if you have
Speaker 6: a kid who's got a real sort of strong will,
Speaker 6: strong personality type that's also very shy and quiet, that's
Speaker 6: a major target super target for these types of people.
Speaker 7: Is there a specific age that they're targeting, cause you
Speaker 7: were four.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The majority of the.
Speaker 6: Ones that I have seen that are targeted when they
Speaker 6: are not part of a group are elementary age, so
Speaker 6: that would be probably let's start it at four.
Speaker 1: Four to five is.
Speaker 6: Probably the limit to the youth, the age that I've
Speaker 6: seen them get to the young side, So four to
Speaker 6: five all the way to about twelve, that's the target age.
Speaker 7: It's a white wide range.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Do you worry about your sad and pope all
Speaker 5: the time?
Speaker 1: This is like the number one problem. I don't, let's
Speaker 1: face it. I've been through.
Speaker 6: I can tell you there's a lot of things that
Speaker 6: are worse than death. So having personally experienced what it's
Speaker 6: like to be unable to escape and to be physically
Speaker 6: tortured and emotionally tortured, I.
Speaker 1: Don't care whether someone shoots me. I don't care whether
Speaker 1: I die. What really scares me is something happening to
Speaker 1: my son.
Speaker 6: And this is like the Achilles heel for me, and
Speaker 6: everyone knows that that's the case with those of us
Speaker 6: that escape from groups. It's like, you know, when I
Speaker 6: had him, I knew I was done for if they
Speaker 6: ever found him, I'd be done. I already know that
Speaker 6: about myself I am afraid of it all the time.
Speaker 6: I dream about it all the time. It's like it
Speaker 6: torments me. I'm not afraid of him coming after me,
Speaker 6: and I have to have conversations with everyone in our
Speaker 6: house and you know, his his teachers about not only
Speaker 6: my public profile now but also what I went through,
Speaker 6: and just I have to be so dedicated not only
Speaker 6: to you know, explaining to them nobody is to take
Speaker 6: this child pick them up or not if you have
Speaker 6: not recognized our faces, if it's not me or this person,
Speaker 6: will literally show them they're not allowed to pick my
Speaker 6: son up. So that's not fun to go through that
Speaker 6: whole story. But also it's like it's it's not fun
Speaker 6: to have conversations with my son where I have to
Speaker 6: basically go through.
Speaker 1: That whole thing.
Speaker 6: We're not gonna get in the car as somebody who's
Speaker 6: not you know, go through the people type of thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you just do achies, you know.
Speaker 6: That's really what doesn't for me when it comes to
Speaker 6: what I went through, is like, what the hell would
Speaker 6: ever happen if they took my son? And they do
Speaker 6: go after children children of yup people whose came which
Speaker 6: is quite rare, but but they're not gonna target you specifically,
Speaker 6: and that's how they try to keep in controls by
Speaker 6: targeting whatever you're attached to. They have to have complete
Speaker 6: control of that, and it works. And and like God forbid,
Speaker 6: you have a baby in one of these scenarios, which
Speaker 6: does happen for a lot of us.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of women who were in like
Speaker 1: these groups.
Speaker 6: They're getting pregnant at like twelve thirteen sometimes, so some
Speaker 6: of these girls as teenagers are having babies in the group,
Speaker 6: and that's why they can't leave even if they want to,
Speaker 6: cause their kids are now controlled by these people. It's like,
Speaker 6: thank god I got I was actually impregnated three times
Speaker 6: by and then aborted by him.
Speaker 7: By your keeper.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so yeah, he impregnant and then and then performed
Speaker 6: that all of the abortions with rudimentary veterinary equipment, which
Speaker 6: did a hell of a lot of damage. It was
Speaker 6: very hard for me to conceive my son because of
Speaker 6: just how much damage was done. But like, I was
Speaker 6: so traumatized about it, just like losing babies. Any woman
Speaker 6: would could relate to this, Like there's almost nothing more
Speaker 6: traumatic than losing babies.
Speaker 1: But now that I'm gone I'm like, thank God, like
Speaker 1: thank God.
Speaker 6: That they died, because I you know, now, now, knowing
Speaker 6: what it's like to love a child, I wouldn't have
Speaker 6: loved I don't all.
Speaker 7: Yeah, wow, is there anything else for me?
Speaker 6: The well?
Speaker 5: I appreciate you. I know, we probably took more time
Speaker 5: than you really were planning on. I don't even know
Speaker 5: how long that was.
Speaker 1: But to her twenty minutes really love a lot less
Speaker 1: than I thought.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 4: And so that's Teal Swan. I almost feel sorry for
Speaker 4: making fun of her. I mean, granted what she said,
Speaker 4: it's always I want to say sixty forty sixty percent
Speaker 4: of me wants to believe that everything she said is
Speaker 4: absolutely one true. Forty percent of me thinks that they
Speaker 4: plant people like this into the mainstream to confuse us
Speaker 4: and just to be able to control the narrative. But
Speaker 4: since sixty percent of me thinks that this really happened
Speaker 4: to her and that she is a genuine SRA survivor,
Speaker 4: I almost feel bad for the bitch. I want to
Speaker 4: buy her coucie cream or whatever it is that she's
Speaker 4: pedaling these days. If you look hard enough on Facebook,
Speaker 4: you will see her ads. She's got the cundalini tordolini,
Speaker 4: rub some type of lotus flower oil that you were
Speaker 4: up on your taint, and you know, it might be amazing,
Speaker 4: It might open up all my chunkras and balance my
Speaker 4: third eyes in all the things. But besides that, I
Speaker 4: really think her story's fucked up. And it's the same
Speaker 4: thing that I always say, if someone were to ever
Speaker 4: go after my child, she's a bigger person than me,
Speaker 4: because it would be law abiding citizen up in this
Speaker 4: bitch if someone was whoever for go after my child.
Speaker 4: But what do you think of teal swan? Everybody? Is
Speaker 4: she telling the truth? Is this all made the fuck up?
Speaker 4: It's pretty Uh, it's pretty fucked up. I mean like
Speaker 4: some of the stuff I've heard others are Ari survivors
Speaker 4: talk about some of the stuff I hadn't heard before.
Speaker 4: But yeah, anyways, thanks for watching till the end. I
Speaker 4: hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back with some new, exciting,
Speaker 4: fresh shit soon. But uh, until then, I love you, guys,
Speaker 4: and I will catch you on the next one.
Speaker 10: Girl, fuck up, you were the tricker. You brought me
Speaker 10: to an objective you when you know the picture getting
Speaker 10: I'm not locking in you doin everythink. You do it
Speaker 10: every time you want my enemy, you want no friend
Speaker 10: of mine.
Speaker 8: Motherfucker your mouthfucking right, your motherfucking right on, bitter, your
Speaker 8: motherfucking right on, triggered, your motherfucking right up.
Speaker 10: I want to fuck you right now.
Speaker 8: I just turned the lights out now and you know
Speaker 8: when the song go down, when it would all go down.
Speaker 11: Been a minute, been a while, Yeah, nobody, it is it.
Speaker 6: You're with it, you know you.
Speaker 1: Want it's not to do with it?
Speaker 4: Better know mean you without you with it.
Speaker 1: I'm about to burn this beach down.
Speaker 8: You gotta need to lie down because I'm not trying
Speaker 8: a while down now.
Speaker 10: But right now I don't know what okay forball love.
Speaker 8: Might fuck around and go crazy because my fuck around
Speaker 8: have to pay me and blood.
Speaker 4: This ain't the way that you want. Might catch your
Speaker 4: case in this bitch. Don't let me catch your face
Speaker 4: to face in this bitch.
Speaker 8: Try your mother. Just not do this respect after what
Speaker 8: you did, mean what you've expected, your motherfucking your motherfucking right,
Speaker 8: your motherfucking right on, bitter, your motherfucking right on.
Speaker 11: Drigger, your mother fucking right eye shutting another time that shout,
Speaker 11: another time, go by, turn out at the time, Oh,
Speaker 11: turn out at the time. Go oh the memories, oh
Speaker 11: you men to me.
Speaker 8: Oh history, Oh that's history.
Speaker 4: I'll calm down eventually.
Speaker 11: Oh back evancially, it is coming back eventially
Speaker 4: All back to me.