Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to a special bonus episode of
Speaker 1: after Dark, where we're going to be doing a spoiler
Speaker 1: cast slash in depth discussion on The Medium, the latest
Speaker 1: triple A horror game from Bluebird Team, which is my
Speaker 1: favorite studio name I think I've heard in a while.
Speaker 1: It is a Xbox exclusive available on Game Pass, just
Speaker 1: came out a week ago, and we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about it because it's a very story heavy game and
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to discuss in terms of
Speaker 1: what we liked and what we didn't like. If you
Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to play the game yourself, don't worry.
Speaker 1: We're going to keep it relatively spoiler free for the
Speaker 1: first part so that you can just kind of get
Speaker 1: our initial impressions of the game, and then we'll make
Speaker 1: a clear distinction when we're.
Speaker 2: Going into spoilers.
Speaker 1: I am John Wick Psyche, and I am joined by
Speaker 1: Jordan remain Associated, who reviewed the Medium for Game Spot.
Speaker 1: You gave it a nine out of ten.
Speaker 3: I have to say I was a little bit worried
Speaker 3: about that at first. I'm like, what if I like
Speaker 3: this game way more.
Speaker 1: Than I guess you'll find out, And then I am
Speaker 1: joined by Ptil Hornshaw, who is an editor and played
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: Played it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, let's just get right into it
Speaker 1: with our initial thoughts. Jordan, as you kind of said
Speaker 1: you were a little worried it is a divisive game.
Speaker 1: I would say, not just based on kind of what
Speaker 1: it is. It's a horror game. It's a It feels
Speaker 1: very much like a throwback to like older horror games.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of people making comparisons
Speaker 1: to Silent Hill or Resident Evil. You look at the
Speaker 1: Blueber Team's previous games, like Layers of Fear, they did,
Speaker 1: the Observer, that Blair Witch game that came out a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. All of those games, I would say,
Speaker 1: are kind of mixed where I either hear people being
Speaker 1: like didn't like it, or people like swear by them,
Speaker 1: like all this game is great. So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't we just go right into it? Jordan? But
Speaker 1: what was your overall takeaway with the game?
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed it. Bluebird Team has for the longest
Speaker 3: time kind of existed. As you said before, the reviews
Speaker 3: for their games have been very polarizing. People either really
Speaker 3: enjoy their games or they're just not that big a
Speaker 3: fan of them, and I think for most of their games,
Speaker 3: I've kind of existed in the Yeah, I can kind
Speaker 3: of see what they're going for, but this isn't exactly
Speaker 3: for me. The Medium is the first game for them
Speaker 3: that's been able to resonate for me specifically. I'm not
Speaker 3: quite sure if it's just the way that they dove
Speaker 3: into the notion of trauma, if it was just the
Speaker 3: Stellar soundtrack, if it was the just awesome voice acting
Speaker 3: of the two stars Kelly Burke and Troy Baker just
Speaker 3: doing fabulous work, Troy being just the creepiest, creepiest monster
Speaker 3: voice that I think.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but you don't think of him.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. People think of him as like, ah,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's Troy Baker. He does kind of
Speaker 1: like the wise, cracking type character. He does like a
Speaker 1: Joel but like he that dude's got some range, you know,
Speaker 1: like he can do really like the Maw is terrifying.
Speaker 3: I said, just just listening to him, Like when I
Speaker 3: was writing the review, Steve, one of his comments that
Speaker 3: he left was, you know, you say how good Troy
Speaker 3: Baker's performance is, you should really describe what the mos
Speaker 3: sounds like. I'm like, I have no idea to describe
Speaker 3: what this thing sounds like. I have no idea what
Speaker 3: well of deprave creativity he like found, But half of
Speaker 3: me hopes he never finds it again because that was
Speaker 3: the creepiest voice I think for a months.
Speaker 1: So I ever, it's the way it constantly like pitches
Speaker 1: and changes tones, and he's going back and forth from
Speaker 1: like sounding really sweet to being like super aggressive. Like
Speaker 1: it's it's so off putting in how he talks.
Speaker 4: Yood special special, what are you from me?
Speaker 5: Let me draw you raw?
Speaker 1: The Maw is definitely, at least for me, I thought
Speaker 1: was a really stand out. He's kind of like the
Speaker 1: only enemy in the.
Speaker 3: Game pretty much.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's something I liked about the game was
Speaker 1: that there is no It's not like a traditional like
Speaker 1: combat heavy game or even like Silent Hill, which I
Speaker 1: would say is is like the earlier Silent Hills. Combat
Speaker 1: is not really the point. There's still a lot of
Speaker 1: enemies in that game, and this is like, it's just
Speaker 1: the Maw really and well, I guess there's a couple
Speaker 1: extra little things in the the like flashback.
Speaker 3: But the is like the main bad Guy. Like every
Speaker 3: horror game has like that one enemy that kind of
Speaker 3: follows you around for a majority of the game, and
Speaker 3: the MA is the one for the medium.
Speaker 1: Philip, how did you feel about the game overall?
Speaker 3: Good?
Speaker 6: I liked it as well. I'm a big fan of
Speaker 6: the old Silent Hill Resident Evil formula, you know, like
Speaker 6: that nineteen ninety eight tank controls third person view kind
Speaker 6: of horror game, and this really nails what I liked
Speaker 6: about those games when I was young. It's it's definitely
Speaker 6: like an homage to Old Silent Hill.
Speaker 2: I really loved the look in the field of the game.
Speaker 6: It's really cinematic the way that game it's all, you know,
Speaker 6: fixed camera. You don't have any control over it, like
Speaker 6: old Residable, Old Silent Hill. When they were doing that,
Speaker 6: when Resident Evil was doing it was because they didn't
Speaker 6: want to deal with rendering out three D environments.
Speaker 2: So Silent Hill did some really cool stuff.
Speaker 6: It was you know, altogether muddier, but that allowed them
Speaker 6: to move the camera and sort of really cool ways,
Speaker 6: really interesting stuff. For like the PlayStation one era that
Speaker 6: still holds up, still looks great. So it's definitely obvious
Speaker 6: that like Blueber Team was into that stuff, and they're
Speaker 6: doing a lot of those cool camera moves throughout.
Speaker 2: This game and that sort of thing.
Speaker 6: So I like it got to me in that sort
Speaker 6: of like, oh man, I remember loving this kind of way,
Speaker 6: you know, so I really enjoyed that about it, And yeah,
Speaker 6: I like it. It hits those elements really well, and
Speaker 6: it does the things that I like about what blueber
Speaker 6: Team does pretty well too, which is these like really
Speaker 6: story heavy one are around like uncover a mystery kind
Speaker 6: of things. I'm a big fan of Layers of Fear.
Speaker 6: I think that game does some really interesting things with
Speaker 6: like space and twisting perspective and that sort of things
Speaker 6: that only video games can do in a lot of ways,
Speaker 6: and they.
Speaker 2: Picked that up here too. I like it. The sort
Speaker 2: of like dual world idea kind of gets in that direction.
Speaker 6: Maybe not quite as much as I wish it did,
Speaker 6: but it's, you know, it's all kind of moving in
Speaker 6: those ways that I like about these games and.
Speaker 2: This sort of section of the genre in general.
Speaker 1: I really like what you mentioned about the fixed camera
Speaker 1: and how it's like evoking the spirit of resid evil
Speaker 1: but with modern tech so they can just I mean,
Speaker 1: the game looks beautiful, especially the background details. There's a
Speaker 1: couple shots in the later half of the game where
Speaker 1: you go to like a forest and just the sheer,
Speaker 1: like the density of the forest and the light coming
Speaker 1: through the trees like that is maybe some of the
Speaker 1: most like beautiful looking environments I've seen in a game,
Speaker 1: and they can get away with it because of that
Speaker 1: fixed camera, so they really just have to like make
Speaker 1: that specific angle look as good as possible, which maybe
Speaker 1: speaks to the fact that it is a really small team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like despite being a Triple A. I would say this.
Speaker 3: I don't know the exact sides of the team.
Speaker 1: But they're they're Polish, They're very small, and I think
Speaker 1: that should be commended. How how amazing this game is
Speaker 1: just from like a production standpoint.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is absolutely like the most budget they've ever
Speaker 6: had and and it works. They put it, They put
Speaker 6: it to work in some really cool ways, and I
Speaker 6: think that's like understanding what they're good at and and
Speaker 6: what their limitations are and then using everything they have
Speaker 6: specifically in that frame to do something really cool.
Speaker 3: Totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are moments where I don't know about how
Speaker 1: you guys felt about it, but I did think the
Speaker 1: the character animation was a little stiff at times. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's like the one part of the game where you
Speaker 1: look at it and you're like, oh, like the the
Speaker 1: facial animation how everybody runs is a little trot.
Speaker 3: It was pretty funny considering mary Anne's like one of
Speaker 3: the few, like there's not many characters this game, Like
Speaker 3: Marianne is pretty much the only person that you're looking
Speaker 3: at for the entirety of this game, and I just
Speaker 3: all the time whenever I would see like her running animation,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I feel I want just a little bit
Speaker 3: more here, Like She's the only one I'm looking at
Speaker 3: for hours on end, and I don't know anyone who runs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they should achieved them. They should have worn animation.
Speaker 1: That's very it's very dainty. There's something about it. It's
Speaker 1: just it makes me laugh and it does take me
Speaker 1: out of what should be a really spooky, spooky environment.
Speaker 1: So I guess let's talk about the story a little bit.
Speaker 1: What I really like about this game is how polish
Speaker 1: it is. The developers are Polish, and they they wanted
Speaker 1: to tell like a what feels like a very polish
Speaker 1: story by it actually taking place, and I think it's
Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety nine Poland. It feels like it's grabbing
Speaker 1: out a lot of Polish history, to the point where
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to somebody from Poland about it,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm not that I'm like not
Speaker 1: enjoying it, but like I would have more enjoyment if
Speaker 1: I had like a certain a cultural appreciation for the
Speaker 1: events and the history that they're talking about.
Speaker 3: Totally get that. The entire time I was playing, I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: this is awesome and fascinating, and I'm probably going to
Speaker 3: like read a whole bunch of Wikipedia articles when I'm
Speaker 3: done with this game. I would love if I had
Speaker 3: all of the cultural contexts for everything that's happening right
Speaker 3: now that I'm learning about while I'm actually playing this game.
Speaker 1: Jake Decker actually had a good idea because the one
Speaker 1: thing I didn't care for in the game, or one
Speaker 1: of the things I didn't care for, was you mentioned
Speaker 1: Marian's voice acting. The voice acting is great. The writing
Speaker 1: and some of her narration I found a little irritating
Speaker 1: where it.
Speaker 3: Like it was yep, yep.
Speaker 1: I was trying to think of how to describe it.
Speaker 1: It's like it's written like the way somebody would write
Speaker 1: a book, not in the way somebody actually thinks in
Speaker 1: their head. And it leads to this thing where it's
Speaker 1: a lot of like telling me things that you don't
Speaker 1: need to, where it's like you're showing me this already.
Speaker 1: I don't need to know that Marianne is terrified. I
Speaker 1: can see it in her facial expression and the voice acting.
Speaker 1: I don't need to then have a narration. It's like
Speaker 1: the Blade Runner, like original cut.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the game is a little bad about
Speaker 6: knowing what to deploy narration on, and like, yeah, that's
Speaker 6: definitely we don't need a run down of the scene
Speaker 6: we just watched facically.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I woke up with icy water in my veins.
Speaker 7: I wanted nothing but to get out of there, to
Speaker 7: just get up and run until my legs give out,
Speaker 7: until my lungs collapse.
Speaker 5: But I know I couldn't. It wouldn't have sold anything
Speaker 5: besides sadness needed my help.
Speaker 3: I would say a good point Tam, who like does
Speaker 3: this for pretty much every review I write, like he
Speaker 3: did point out like the one like true positive to
Speaker 3: the narration, because the narration was like the one big
Speaker 3: negative that I talked about in my review, but Tam
Speaker 3: pointed outs like you, in a way, her heavy narration
Speaker 3: allows someone who's playing the game, or who's sitting watching
Speaker 3: someone else play the game, who maybe can't pick up
Speaker 3: all the auditory and visual cues, they can actually understand
Speaker 3: what's happening because her narration is so heavy in detail.
Speaker 3: It's like, Wow, you're just repeating things that I definitely
Speaker 3: just witnessed or inferred from the tone of your voice.
Speaker 3: So it's cool in like an accessibility standpoint, But like
Speaker 3: to both of your points, I think it's just implemented
Speaker 3: in a very inelegant way. I think that if they
Speaker 3: wanted to go for something like that, I have no
Speaker 3: idea why the developers chose to add that narration, but
Speaker 3: if they were adding it for accessibility reasons, I think
Speaker 3: there could have been a more elegant way that they
Speaker 3: could have incorporated something like that.
Speaker 6: There are definitely times when I like being in mary
Speaker 6: Anne's head, or like knowing what she's feeling about a
Speaker 6: thing she just went through, or the greatest significance of
Speaker 6: that thing. Sometimes, like occasionally it widens out the story
Speaker 6: in you know, the kind of way you'd expect from
Speaker 6: a novel. But it also Yeah, sometimes it's just it
Speaker 6: feels repetitive and in a weird way, like it I
Speaker 6: don't know that she's narrating it for anybody's benefit. It's
Speaker 6: just like they had her in the room almost so.
Speaker 3: Well, it's funny because like it technically ties into the
Speaker 3: story itself, because about ninety five percent of the game
Speaker 3: is her recounting all of these events to someone else.
Speaker 3: We don't find out until the very end of the game.
Speaker 3: But it's like this weird thing where it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I can now understand why she's adding all of these
Speaker 3: details because she's explaining it to someone else. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: but we're experiencing this for the first time. We don't
Speaker 3: need these details. We're watching it happen.
Speaker 6: I like it when she's got extra context, like everything
Speaker 6: related to her family life and stuff.
Speaker 2: Some of the history things are useful. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: she just doesn't have to throw it in every single time.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's hard to describe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I was gonna say originally was I was
Speaker 1: talking about that with like Jake Decker, video producer and
Speaker 1: host of the Normal after Dark podcast, and that you
Speaker 1: probably all I assume watch because it's on the same feed,
Speaker 1: but he was like, oh man, yeah, I kind of
Speaker 1: want to play the game in Polish. Maybe that would
Speaker 1: just like make the narration kind of work better, because
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said about, Like, I
Speaker 1: think part of the reason people always like subs versus
Speaker 1: dubs with like anime is because it's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know when it's in another language, you don't notice like
Speaker 1: awkward voice acting or like weird written lines as much.
Speaker 1: So like maybe, and also because it is so heavily Polish,
Speaker 1: you could like actually like envelop yourself more, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: you can't actually do that in this game. If you
Speaker 1: said it to Polish, it switches everything to Polish. So
Speaker 1: oh no, I would love for them to add an option. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is me telling asking like if you could add
Speaker 1: an update where I could listen to the game in
Speaker 1: Polish but still have everything in English, that would be
Speaker 1: really cool because I I'd maybe play it again.
Speaker 6: It does feel like maybe a little bit of this
Speaker 6: as localization and cultural I think you're probably right, so like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I would be interested in that as well.
Speaker 1: Well. I think the other big thing to talk about
Speaker 1: is the main gimmick of the game itself, which is
Speaker 1: the switching between the real world and the spirit world.
Speaker 1: That's the whole reason why this game is Like next
Speaker 1: Gen is like the developer said that, like they've had
Speaker 1: this idea in their head for years, but they couldn't
Speaker 1: capitalize on it until next gen hardware like made it
Speaker 1: a reality. It's a pretty cool trick. Like it's really neat,
Speaker 1: Like the game will periodically like switch between these We'll
Speaker 1: have these moments where the game like goes full split
Speaker 1: screen and you're controlling and seeing Mary Anne in both
Speaker 1: the regular world in the spirit world. I cannot remember
Speaker 1: the name. I know the spirit world is inspired by
Speaker 1: the like surrealist paintings of this famous Polish artist. I
Speaker 1: don't have the name offhand, and if I did, I
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be able to pronounce it. But I love
Speaker 1: that stuff. That stuff looks fantastic, and I think they
Speaker 1: they do some really cool like not too complicated, like
Speaker 1: pretty basic, but like engaging puzzle work with that stuff
Speaker 1: that I liked.
Speaker 3: The fact that this game can render two separate experiences
Speaker 3: to the point that it can and then separate the
Speaker 3: experiences when you have an out of body experience and
Speaker 3: you're controlling only one half, and it's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: done doing the thing that I want to do on
Speaker 3: the Spirit World half. I want to put these experiences
Speaker 3: backside by side again. You just press a button and
Speaker 3: like it loads within a second a second and a half.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is straight witchcraft what they've managed to
Speaker 3: pull off, And like, I can totally see why they
Speaker 3: were like, oh, yeah, we can't do this on the
Speaker 3: three sixty. We can't even do this on the Xbox One.
Speaker 3: It's only now with the Series X and Series S
Speaker 3: is there a console actually strong enough to pull off
Speaker 3: a trick like this. It's just so cool. I don't
Speaker 3: know how they do it. Like, I'm not a tech person,
Speaker 3: so I can't explain adequately what they're doing behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: But it's just one of those things that the first
Speaker 3: time I saw it playing and I'm like, this feels
Speaker 3: like a very new gen thing for Xbox, even though
Speaker 3: it's in a very small game. This I can see
Speaker 3: how they're using the hardware of the Series X to
Speaker 3: do something really cool with this game.
Speaker 1: And in that regards it, it feels like the first
Speaker 1: truly next gen game of this generation. Because it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we have had a couple launch games. We
Speaker 1: had Spider Man, we had Demon Souls, and those look great.
Speaker 1: Demon Souls looks very good in fact, but I would
Speaker 1: say it like a lot of it is still very
Speaker 1: much like you could accomplish that on PlayStation. Maybe it
Speaker 1: wouldn't look as good, maybe the fidelity wouldn't be quite there,
Speaker 1: but most of the tricks you could still pull off,
Speaker 1: with the exception of maybe ratracing. This is like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's absolutely no way, Like this feels next gen in
Speaker 1: like that way that just like gets you excited about
Speaker 1: new constens where you're like, wow, like I love when
Speaker 1: developers really like use hardware to do creative things with it.
Speaker 6: Well, what's cool with it two is that it's not
Speaker 6: just a graphical gimmick. It's not just like better textures
Speaker 6: or better lighting. It doesn't just look better. It's actively
Speaker 6: running two versions of the game world at the same time.
Speaker 6: Like it feels like it's a gameplay mechanic that's only
Speaker 6: possible in the new hardware, which is really nice to
Speaker 6: have something like that. And it's actually, oh yeah, I
Speaker 6: bought this machine and it can do a different thing
Speaker 6: than my other machine could actually do. So I appreciate
Speaker 6: that quite a bit, that it's it's just not doesn't
Speaker 6: feel possible before I kind of I my whole I
Speaker 6: think my biggest drawback with this whole game is that
Speaker 6: I feel I wish it had.
Speaker 2: Gone a little further. And that's ultimately my.
Speaker 6: Big complaint with this idea too, is that it is
Speaker 6: a touch gimmicky, and it's just like, Okay, it's two
Speaker 6: versions of the same room, and and one you can
Speaker 6: pick up a thing, and then another you can pick
Speaker 6: up a different thing, and that's really kind of as
Speaker 6: far as it goes. But it is cool to navigate.
Speaker 6: It's fun to try to split your brain into these
Speaker 6: two different directions because sometimes one one version of the
Speaker 6: world has like a wall or a staircase that you
Speaker 6: can't climb and you have to like, oh shit, turn
Speaker 6: your head look at the other side of the screen,
Speaker 6: like you get lost in it a little bit, which
Speaker 6: is a cool feeling to try to navigate both those
Speaker 6: spaces at the same time, and it kind of puts
Speaker 6: you in the character in a different way. Because Marianne
Speaker 6: is like you get the impression that a lot of
Speaker 6: her life she lives in these two spaces at the
Speaker 6: same time, and that is weird, and she can do
Speaker 6: it better than you can, and so like you kind
Speaker 6: of have to adjust to what her experience is like
Speaker 6: in a different way.
Speaker 1: I was trying to think about, like how does that
Speaker 1: actually work for her? Where like how is she seeing
Speaker 1: it from a first person? Is it like one eyeball
Speaker 1: seeing the real world and one eyeball seeing the spirit world?
Speaker 1: Like I can't my brain can't even process like how
Speaker 1: you would navigate.
Speaker 3: That's so weird because like you see those cut scenes,
Speaker 3: like when she's talking with Sadness, and like Sadness runs
Speaker 3: up to her and she's hugging her, and like in
Speaker 3: one side of the screen, it's like she's kind of
Speaker 3: freaking out that spirit touching her. On the other side
Speaker 3: of the screen, she's freaking out, but there's nothing there,
Speaker 3: And I'm like, so what is she seeing right now?
Speaker 3: She only seeing the Sadness, She's like the spirit world,
Speaker 3: or is she's seeing half in half and in half?
Speaker 3: She's realizing if anyone saw me right now, they just
Speaker 3: see that I'm kind of freaking out over nothing.
Speaker 2: It's super weird.
Speaker 6: Yeah, She's like leaning into a hug in the spirit world,
Speaker 6: and then her arms are, you know, doing that same
Speaker 6: motion in the real world, but there's nothing there, or
Speaker 6: she's stuck in a chair, or any any given number
Speaker 6: of things, because a lot of stuff happens in the
Speaker 6: spirit world that's like physical and interesting and weird, and
Speaker 6: then it's also running the regular world next to it,
Speaker 6: and it's like nothing's happening.
Speaker 2: It's fine, what are you being weird about?
Speaker 3: Which kind of gives like better context because when you're
Speaker 3: first starting out, you hear about how tough her childhood was,
Speaker 3: and she was like, I couldn't really belong, Like I
Speaker 3: can totally understand that. If everyone else is just seeing
Speaker 3: the real side you right now and they have like
Speaker 3: no context to what's going on, I'd be freaking out
Speaker 3: too if you were just like a young girl who
Speaker 3: is just like, I don't know, being restrained to a
Speaker 3: chair and it's like there's nothing there, and it's like, no,
Speaker 3: you don't understand.
Speaker 2: It's like she's playing pretend all the time. It's got
Speaker 2: to be rough.
Speaker 1: What you said feel about the game's potential and how
Speaker 1: it could like it could have gone farther. It's a
Speaker 1: very short game. I think I don't. I wish I
Speaker 1: had an hour count. I was trying to find it,
Speaker 1: but I guess Xbox doesn't have that information. But I
Speaker 1: think i'd beat in.
Speaker 3: Like nine eight hours something like that. That sounds about right.
Speaker 3: And the review guy they told us it was an
Speaker 3: eight to ten hour game, so yeah, nine hours.
Speaker 1: It wrapped up its story, like when it hit the end,
Speaker 1: it felt like everything had kind of like come together.
Speaker 1: But I do agree that like mechanically, I was like, ooh,
Speaker 1: like I would love to see more, like I want
Speaker 1: to see a medium two or or just like to
Speaker 1: take that concept and expand upon it even further, because
Speaker 1: it does feel like a first attempt, and a pretty
Speaker 1: good first attempt, but it's like, oh, there is so
Speaker 1: much more potential you could do with this, like split Red.
Speaker 3: That they know that there are people who liked it,
Speaker 3: they can do it again.
Speaker 1: Exactly, And they kind of left some uh seql bait
Speaker 1: sort of at the end.
Speaker 3: Not really yeah, I guess.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it definitely feels like there could be DLC.
Speaker 1: Which which is maybe our cue to go talk into
Speaker 1: the story and get into some spoilers.
Speaker 3: Can I just say for this story, like and maybe
Speaker 3: this is getting a bit to the spoilers. Go for it,
Speaker 3: get into it, sick, but like games that almost trust
Speaker 3: you to be like, look, we know that we're not
Speaker 3: super super interesting yet, but stick with us for a
Speaker 3: little bit and we'll take you for a ride. Like
Speaker 3: the first hour, maybe even two hours of The Medium,
Speaker 3: it was very almost ironically middling for me. I just
Speaker 3: didn't really I'm like, it's really cinematic. The whole split
Speaker 3: screen thing is cool, and I love this. I'm not
Speaker 3: quite sure what they're going for, and there's all these
Speaker 3: threads with like I think there's like a Soviet spy here.
Speaker 3: I have no idea who Thomas is, what should I
Speaker 3: be doing? Who is Sadness? And then like I have
Speaker 3: no idea when it happens, maybe like around hour three
Speaker 3: or four, you start finding like enough clues that you
Speaker 3: start noticing like, oh, a lot of these things are
Speaker 3: beginning to fit together very tangentially, and I can't quite
Speaker 3: put the picture together yet, but I think if I
Speaker 3: keep going a little bit more, I'll get there. And
Speaker 3: the fact that I think to the Medium's benefit that
Speaker 3: it's only eight hours nine hours long, so you don't
Speaker 3: have to go all that far to get that full
Speaker 3: picture works wonders. I love the fact that this game
Speaker 3: is willing to risk the fact and like, you know,
Speaker 3: there's probably going to be some players who pick up
Speaker 3: this game and after an hour they're like, I'm kind
Speaker 3: of bored with this and I don't want to keep going.
Speaker 3: But we're going to just set the scene as best
Speaker 3: we can and hope that the player arrives at the
Speaker 3: conclusion that they're like, Oh, I want to see what
Speaker 3: the end of this is. I want to see how
Speaker 3: all these pieces somehow, some way Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And it makes it kind of a tough
Speaker 1: game to recommend because it's like, oh, you got to
Speaker 1: play a couple hours before, you got to play a
Speaker 1: couple hours of this eight hour game, so you have
Speaker 1: to pay a third of a game that's arguably not
Speaker 1: as good to get to like the good stuff. But
Speaker 1: that's kind of where it being on game Pass is
Speaker 1: like huge in my opinion, Like it's it because it's
Speaker 1: such a polarizing game where it's like I don't know
Speaker 1: if you would like it, Like you might like it,
Speaker 1: you might hate it, But if you have game Pass,
Speaker 1: there's what's the harm in trying it? Right, or like
Speaker 1: you know it kind of oblig you feel not obligated,
Speaker 1: but like you that barrier's going on, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I could I can give this a shot or you know,
Speaker 1: like and not feel bad if I if I didn't
Speaker 1: like it or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I just remember getting to the Neva resort and
Speaker 3: like picking up that payphone and you get one of
Speaker 3: the first echoes right there, and it's about the Henry
Speaker 3: I think his name is the spy who's there to
Speaker 3: find Thomas. And I just remember hearing that message and
Speaker 3: being like, well, that has nothing to do with why
Speaker 3: I am here any of this. But then you like
Speaker 3: keep going and going and it's like, oh, some of
Speaker 3: something happened here. Everyone's dead. Why is everyone dead? Oh
Speaker 3: there's this weird old dude who was fine one day
Speaker 3: and then he was like almost comatose in a vegetative
Speaker 3: state the very next day. And then the nurse who
Speaker 3: was taking care of him kind of like suddenly started
Speaker 3: being really psychotic and like messing with him and like
Speaker 3: cutting him. Like what is going on? And then when
Speaker 3: you finally see all of that coming together, and it's like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is so elaborate and cool. If they had told
Speaker 3: this story in like the actual order of the events occurring,
Speaker 3: it would not be nearly as interesting as it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally it because, yeah, I thought the same thing
Speaker 1: where I kind of was thinking it was going to
Speaker 1: be more like Bioshocky, where it's like you get a
Speaker 1: little cool story than yettes that fill out the world,
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily like all related to the main plot.
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, here's a cool little side story,
Speaker 1: but like, no, you're right, like it all ends up
Speaker 1: relating back to the main central plot and why you're there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now I kind of want to go back and like
Speaker 1: check out that early stuff and like, yeah, find the
Speaker 1: little that were sewing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: This is what I like about Blueber's games, is it
Speaker 6: feels like they write a story, they have a plan
Speaker 6: for the game. The story is the centerpiece of that plan,
Speaker 6: and they are willing to trust you to to go
Speaker 6: along with them like that you care enough about it
Speaker 6: as well as much as they care about it to
Speaker 6: like really invest and to pay attention and to pick
Speaker 6: up all the stuff on the ground that gives you
Speaker 6: little tidbits of it and you know, and like, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's a little slow starting up, but those things are
Speaker 6: important to the long term nature of the story. And
Speaker 6: you know, it's like it's like a TV season, like, yeah,
Speaker 6: two episodes are going to be slow, but they're building
Speaker 6: the foundation for the next six.
Speaker 2: So like be cool. So yeah, I mean I appreciate that.
Speaker 6: I feel like a lot of video game storytelling is
Speaker 6: a lot of it is rushed, a lot of it
Speaker 6: is kind of crammed in a lot of the time,
Speaker 6: and Blueberg goes, you know, out of their way to
Speaker 6: try to tell stories and they they work.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they don't work out. You know, it's not.
Speaker 6: Always successful necessarily, but I think that's a dedication that
Speaker 6: is important and that is useful in the medium especially
Speaker 6: is as like in the horror game section, right, Like
Speaker 6: having that dedication to the story makes this game work
Speaker 6: in a big way, and I really like it.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, where the game really picked up for
Speaker 1: me was that part way through. I guess it's about
Speaker 1: half right where where you find out what happened to
Speaker 1: sadness and like that whole storyline with Yeah, that that
Speaker 1: is where that's where the game gets interesting.
Speaker 3: In the darkest way possible, the darkest way possible.
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I love that they're like using
Speaker 1: rape as a plot device, it's a little like they
Speaker 1: do a good job of not like it's it's not horrific.
Speaker 1: They're not showing anything, thank god. And I do think
Speaker 1: it's like the best way you could have handled that
Speaker 1: kind of plot point. I think it's more like my
Speaker 1: issue is just with that as a general plot point
Speaker 1: in games period. But I will say it, it does
Speaker 1: do a really good job of like adding a weight
Speaker 1: to the plot that I don't think it quite had yet,
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, spooky massacre, but it's all
Speaker 1: like spooky nurse went crazy and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: nurse went crazy and killed everyone, and then it's like
Speaker 1: nah man, like serious child trauma and you're like, oh snap, okay,
Speaker 1: this is like we're getting heavy with it, and then
Speaker 1: it just I feel like it just keeps building after
Speaker 1: that where you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean I appreciate that it broaches that subject without
Speaker 6: sensationalizing it, which I think is what often games kind
Speaker 6: of stumble into, you know, yes, with the sort of
Speaker 6: thing like I think part of say, what people had
Speaker 6: trouble with tomb Raider, if you want to go back aways.
Speaker 6: When something similar came up in that game was that
Speaker 6: it felt like it was bombarding you with that trauma
Speaker 6: and like.
Speaker 2: Making you be in it.
Speaker 6: In a way that not everybody was comfortable with, and
Speaker 6: that was not necessarily like like you said, tasteful or
Speaker 6: I don't know, sensitive, respectful fully understanding what it was
Speaker 6: dealing with. And this feels more deliberate and more well
Speaker 6: thought out.
Speaker 2: I felt.
Speaker 3: I was really worried at first when that scene popped up, because,
Speaker 3: like with their whole duality thing, a lot of the
Speaker 3: medium is kind of exploring the Oh, some people present
Speaker 3: themselves this way, but there's always another side to the story,
Speaker 3: like another way to see them. And I was very,
Speaker 3: very worried when that scene popped up, and like, do
Speaker 3: not try to convince me Blueber Team to empathize with
Speaker 3: a child abuser. I won't buy it, and and I
Speaker 3: will decimate your game if you try to do so.
Speaker 3: And I think to their credit at the very least,
Speaker 3: even though mary Anne kind of leaves many of the
Speaker 3: people's fates like up into interpretation for you to decide
Speaker 3: for yourself for the child eater and then later for
Speaker 3: the hound, both of whom are like, oh, they were
Speaker 3: people who were victimized who went on to become victimizers themselves.
Speaker 3: Mary Anne's very much like, don't use your trauma as
Speaker 3: a shield, Like that's not okay, you're not a good person.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to forgive you for what you did
Speaker 3: after learning about you. I'm going to expel your spirit.
Speaker 3: But that's not in any way a form of forgiveness.
Speaker 1: One percent. Yeah, I would say that's maybe the game's
Speaker 1: biggest strength in the story is is it's it's a
Speaker 1: lot about trauma, and it's a lot about a lot
Speaker 1: about father figures. Is actually like a big theme in
Speaker 1: the game is like everyone you have like Maryanne's like
Speaker 1: foster father who dies at the beginning, and then you
Speaker 1: have her real father, and then you have you know, Thomas's,
Speaker 1: like I guess also like adopted father and then him
Speaker 1: you know, end up being a child the beezer to
Speaker 1: his daughter, and like it's this whole circle of fathers
Speaker 1: doing terrible things or just being absent. But like you said,
Speaker 1: I like that they explain why these people are the
Speaker 1: way they are. They don't try and say their monsters
Speaker 1: just because they're monsters. They're real people and they messed
Speaker 1: up or this is how this happened, and the way that,
Speaker 1: like real abuse works where it's like abusers are often
Speaker 1: the ones who abuses people. But like you said, the
Speaker 1: game I think does make a very clear stance that
Speaker 1: none of that justifies or should elicit sympathy for their actions.
Speaker 1: Like once once you cross that line, there's no you
Speaker 1: shouldn't know, there's no sympathy for someone.
Speaker 6: Like that, right, Yeah, it's adding nuance without making excuses,
Speaker 6: which is yeah, a good I think approach to that.
Speaker 6: I wonder what you guys feel about the maw and
Speaker 6: about sadness then, because I've read I I saw a
Speaker 6: few people making some comments on Twitter about the game
Speaker 6: suggesting that trauma leads to.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I mean, like, yeah, the way the way the game
Speaker 6: presents being victimized and what that leads to, And I
Speaker 6: don't know. I'm interested in how you guys took what
Speaker 6: you guystick away.
Speaker 2: From that, especially in the end. Yeah, I know, it's rough, man.
Speaker 3: A tough question. It's it's hard because there's so much
Speaker 3: of the medium that like for storytelling. Wise, I am
Speaker 3: making assumptions because as we said, it's very it's not
Speaker 3: clear cut in the exact events that its story happened
Speaker 3: the way I understand it, and you both can tell
Speaker 3: me if I'm totally misconstruing this. But sadness and the
Speaker 3: ma are the two sides to Lillianna's spirit form that
Speaker 3: basically shattered after the sexual assault that occurred. So half
Speaker 3: of it is all of her childhood innocence and the
Speaker 3: other half is all the disgust and rage and trauma
Speaker 3: just given physical form. So it's essentially kind of a
Speaker 3: dissociative I guess.
Speaker 2: Right now. Yeah, yeah, that's how it took makes sense to.
Speaker 6: Some degree, Like it's not super clear, like you said,
Speaker 6: but yeah, that was what I got out of it.
Speaker 1: And heightened by the fact that she is also a
Speaker 1: medium as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, magic is involved.
Speaker 3: Right, It's all. It's one of those hard things. It's like, Oh,
Speaker 3: so Thomas is a medium whose spirit form is a
Speaker 3: completely separate person, his first daughter is a medium whose
Speaker 3: spirit is a separate person that was split into two
Speaker 3: separate persons, and his second daughter is a medium whose
Speaker 3: spirit form and physical form are one and the same. Okay, cool,
Speaker 3: I'll accept that if those are the.
Speaker 1: Nazi science experiments.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, like Mariam went through like the least amount
Speaker 6: of awful stuff and therefore she's like the most whole person.
Speaker 3: I guess, oh, yeah, yeah, I don't think so that
Speaker 3: makes Yeah, it's either that or it has something to
Speaker 3: do with the fact that, like when she was born,
Speaker 3: her mom died too. I wasn't sure if that was
Speaker 3: like relevant in some way, like it's the medium is
Speaker 3: one of those games I'm gonna have to play a
Speaker 3: second time totally.
Speaker 1: I think the thing with the with the mom was
Speaker 1: relevant to like that caused like a fracture with with
Speaker 1: Lily where she blamed Marianne for her mom's death and
Speaker 1: that like so the seeds for this like demon in
Speaker 1: her psyche that kind of kept growing and growing and growing,
Speaker 1: and then you know when the the abuse happened and
Speaker 1: then the fire happened, Like that's when it just like
Speaker 1: the blue eye of control essentially.
Speaker 3: So I guess to your earlier question, Phil, it's one
Speaker 3: of those weird things where I'm so conflicted about sadness
Speaker 3: and the mall. Like on one hand, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: when not always, but sometimes when you undergo a very
Speaker 3: severe trauma like sexual abuse, it causes a dissociation where
Speaker 3: there's a split in the personality where the brain tries
Speaker 3: to save itself, and in the medium's world, maybe the
Speaker 3: spirit form's brain can do the same thing as it were.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, it's like, this really weird than
Speaker 3: analogy where you're saying, like, oh, is then everything that
Speaker 3: the mos stands for and wants to do, is that
Speaker 3: a part of the leanne's subconscious because that seems really
Speaker 3: odd if that were the case. It seems seems like
Speaker 3: an almost completely different person in how viciously violent and
Speaker 3: aggressive it is. And I don't know. It's one of
Speaker 3: the few moments I think where I would have liked
Speaker 3: for Bluebird team to have provided a little bit more
Speaker 3: concrete details on what exactly they were trying to say
Speaker 3: about that entire situation, so I can make a much
Speaker 3: more informed opinion on whether or not I liked it,
Speaker 3: because part of me is like, oh, it kind of
Speaker 3: makes sense, and the other part of me is like, no, no,
Speaker 3: it doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 6: Yeah, see, I kind of agree with you on that,
Speaker 6: Like I felt like the symbolism there is a bit modeled,
Speaker 6: and that kind of frustrated me.
Speaker 2: In the end, because.
Speaker 6: I get that they're going for something here, but I
Speaker 6: also get that they're like, we need a monster. This
Speaker 6: is a video game about a monster, So like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 6: and I'm not sure it quite plays in the end
Speaker 6: the way they were maybe hoping.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it was a little the ending for me,
Speaker 1: it didn't come together quite the way I wanted it to,
Speaker 1: where where the whole time, I'm like, you're learning, you know,
Speaker 1: the mystery of what happened and mary Anne's family and
Speaker 1: and all that's coming together really nicely. But then and
Speaker 1: like I said, they do have strong themes of you know,
Speaker 1: fathers and sort of like abuse, spaghetting abuse, but also
Speaker 1: not justifying it. But then you get to the ending
Speaker 1: and it presents this situation where mary Anne's given the
Speaker 1: choice of how to deal with the Ma and Lily,
Speaker 1: and is she gonna kill Lily to basically kill the Ma,
Speaker 1: or is she gonna kill herself so that the Ma
Speaker 1: can't escape and Lily would live, Which I have some
Speaker 1: issues with because wouldn't okay, first off, wouldn't I wouldn't
Speaker 1: that not actually solve anything because then the mom would
Speaker 1: still exist with Lily there.
Speaker 3: I would just try to find a different host.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like then else basically she wouldn't be
Speaker 1: solving the problem because if Lily Marian had never gone there,
Speaker 1: it would just been the exact same. But also I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I'm not sure what you're trying to say
Speaker 1: about this, like like it thematically, I'm it didn't come
Speaker 1: together for me where I was like, what would by
Speaker 1: like what would her sacrifice mean? Like, I think there
Speaker 1: was something about like she wanted to she felt like
Speaker 1: she had been given a life and she wanted to
Speaker 1: give that back to Lily, But I don't know, it
Speaker 1: just none of the pieces came together in the way
Speaker 1: I wanted. And I think I would have wanted a
Speaker 1: more like concrete statement of like what they're trying to say.
Speaker 1: And part of that is by the fact that it
Speaker 1: intentionally doesn't tell you what happens, because you just hear
Speaker 1: a gunshot and you don't know what choice she made
Speaker 1: that could have worked. But I think because I didn't
Speaker 1: have a clear idea of like I just kind of
Speaker 1: sat there at the credits being like, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to take away from all that
Speaker 1: at the end there.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's my big problem too, And like, I don't
Speaker 6: know how I feel about the idea that Lily is
Speaker 6: kind of just like choosing suicide. I don't know how
Speaker 6: I feel about the idea that she is basically irredeemable
Speaker 6: or unable to deal with her trauma or control it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the game somehow deposits that, like her trauma can't
Speaker 3: be absolved the same way that Marianne did with the
Speaker 3: Hounds and child Eaters.
Speaker 6: Right well, And I appreciate that the game is not
Speaker 6: at the same time, like we're going to redeem everybody
Speaker 6: and it's like just a simple as that you know,
Speaker 6: you said you're sorry, everything's fine, that's good.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that there's nuance there.
Speaker 6: I also just feel like it was almost two nuanced
Speaker 6: in that it doesn't conclude.
Speaker 1: Well, if there was a character that could have been
Speaker 1: redeemed it was Lily, where it's like they made this
Speaker 1: conspiration of like you know, the other characters, like they
Speaker 1: did horrendous things, where the game implies that, like the
Speaker 1: ma is sort of like gone beyond Lily's control and
Speaker 1: wasn't her directly inflicting actions upon people. So if there
Speaker 1: was a person that was like worthy of being saved
Speaker 1: it would have been her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's tough to say because we're in the realm
Speaker 6: of like weird metaphysics, right, So like.
Speaker 2: What what symbolism are you trying to get across to me?
Speaker 2: Here is my big issue? Yeah, because yeah, like.
Speaker 6: This this thing is a literal demon that is literally
Speaker 6: taking people's minds over and literally turning them into murderers
Speaker 6: and massacring people. And like how much responsibility does Lily
Speaker 6: a child for that? I guess she was at an
Speaker 6: adult by that point. I don't know, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 6: you know, like we're in hard monster territory here, this
Speaker 6: is way off into supernatural?
Speaker 2: What are you trying to get across?
Speaker 6: And like, I feel like the themes of the game
Speaker 6: really play well with the other characters, with those other
Speaker 6: moments and you know, meeting their monsters and dealing with them,
Speaker 6: and this one is like almost too separated from Lily,
Speaker 6: And or maybe that we don't spend enough time with
Speaker 6: Lily as a character because sadness is not Lily necessarily,
Speaker 6: and even if she is, like we don't really know
Speaker 6: a ton about sadness except that she is a kid,
Speaker 6: you know, Like that's pretty much it, So, yeah, maybe
Speaker 6: it's a character development efficiency that I'm feeling, and I'm
Speaker 6: not really articulating well because like I feel like it doesn't,
Speaker 6: like you said, it doesn't really gel in that last moment,
Speaker 6: that big choice, because you know, what relationship does mary
Speaker 6: Anne have with Lily almost none? What responsibility does she
Speaker 6: bear to Billy almost none? Lily rather and then Lily's
Speaker 6: just like, yep, come on, let's go. I got a
Speaker 6: gun here, Let's do it. And we're like, well, can
Speaker 6: we like unpack any of this? This feels like it
Speaker 6: needed a little more, should have been another hour on
Speaker 6: there maybe some of.
Speaker 3: This stuff, which is a shame because that scene is
Speaker 3: one of the most like I wouldn't say beautiful, but
Speaker 3: like visually impressive shot scenes and a video I have
Speaker 3: ever seen where once Again splits and it keeps like
Speaker 3: shifting back and forth, sometimes showing Lilyan in her physical form,
Speaker 3: sometimes showing her in sadness, sometimes showing her and the Ma,
Speaker 3: sometimes showing mary Anne, and it just keeps going like
Speaker 3: back and forth and shifting through all these perspectives, and
Speaker 3: so you're like all of these things are intertwined and
Speaker 3: tangled up and like we're ratcheting up to something, and
Speaker 3: then you just have the gunshot and it goes to
Speaker 3: black and you're like, oh, did mary Anne shoot her sister?
Speaker 3: Did she shoot herself? Did real Thomas somehow escape? Because
Speaker 3: we learn that in the spirit world, time moves at
Speaker 3: a different pace, so technically his entire story could happen
Speaker 3: within the span of those thirty seconds, and he somehow appears,
Speaker 3: like in that moment he fires a gun in the
Speaker 3: air to make everyone stop and like, do something. You
Speaker 3: have no idea, You have no idea what's going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Thomas kind of got weirdly dropped. Where after you
Speaker 1: meet Thomas's spirit form, who turns out to be the
Speaker 1: one that Marianne's narrating the game too, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: he got separated after the altercation with Henry. But then
Speaker 1: you're like, where's Thomas and all this and they never
Speaker 1: really properly explain it.
Speaker 2: I mean, he made that phone call at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the game.
Speaker 1: Right right, and it's like, well, why did he do that?
Speaker 2: Well, that didn't come from the spirit.
Speaker 1: What was his intention behind that? Was he trying to
Speaker 1: save Lily? Was he like, what was his motivation behind that,
Speaker 1: and then yeah, you get that weird post credit scene
Speaker 1: where maybe that's Thomas there in the spirit world at
Speaker 1: the ends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I assume. So I figure that because at the
Speaker 3: end of him dealing with the hound, like his spirit
Speaker 3: form is like locked in the cage with the hound
Speaker 3: because he finds out that the hound's just a psychopath,
Speaker 3: and so he has no innocent soul to essentially burn
Speaker 3: away like a ghost writer, and so his spirit form
Speaker 3: is trapped. And I've figured based on the notes that
Speaker 3: what Thomas was trying to do was he was trying
Speaker 3: to find a way for he himself to enter the
Speaker 3: spirit world so that he could save his spirit half
Speaker 3: to defeat the maw right, And so he calls Mary
Speaker 3: Anne right before going to do that, and then we
Speaker 3: go through and then when we finally defeat the hound,
Speaker 3: it saves his spirit form, so a spirit form gets
Speaker 3: let out and we get to talk to him, but
Speaker 3: his physical form is now in the spirit realm finding
Speaker 3: a pocket watch on the ground at the end of
Speaker 3: the game. Right, there's a lot of moving parts of
Speaker 3: this game. There's like it's one of those games that
Speaker 3: if you do not stop to pick up every single
Speaker 3: little thing that you can interact with, you are not
Speaker 3: going to understand totally.
Speaker 1: And I feel like if I I would, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: some of the stuff Thomas would be a little more
Speaker 1: clear if I went back and replayed it, because I'm
Speaker 1: thinking now about like there is the altercation with him
Speaker 1: and his office, and yeah, there's like the phone call,
Speaker 1: Like maybe that stuff would make more sense and tie together,
Speaker 1: because because as you were saying it, I was like
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, right, that happened, and I was
Speaker 1: starting to kind of piece it together a little bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent already. Like it demands you, you
Speaker 1: look at everything if you want to know what's really
Speaker 1: going on.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of glad that I had to play this
Speaker 3: game for review because it forced me to essentially play
Speaker 3: and beat it within two different sessions. I think if
Speaker 3: I'd played this like most normal video games, with like oh,
Speaker 3: I'll play an hour Monday, then I'll play another hour
Speaker 3: like on the Wednesday that follows, and then maybe a
Speaker 3: half hour on the next Thursday, I'd have no idea
Speaker 3: what was going on because I'd just be taking too
Speaker 3: much time in between play sessions, Like this is the
Speaker 3: game that demands you pay attention to it, and to
Speaker 3: Phil's point, I'm not entirely sure even with you paying
Speaker 3: attention to it, does it do enough to deliver completely
Speaker 3: on the setup it's trying to give you. At the
Speaker 3: very end of the game. It's still like a pretty
Speaker 3: cool ending to see and it's a horrifying one to witness.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm like, I must have
Speaker 3: missed a collectible and I'm missing some crucial contexts or
Speaker 3: that context was just not there and it's being clarified
Speaker 3: in a DLC or SQL follow.
Speaker 6: Up, right, Yeah, I'm not sure if it was just
Speaker 6: rushed or I miss something, or if there's an interpretation
Speaker 6: that I'm missing.
Speaker 2: I almost I'm like, man, should we go do an
Speaker 2: ending explained article? Damn? I need to get on that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And so like, unfortunately, after everything, I felt like
Speaker 6: I was missing some crucial piece of the puzzle and
Speaker 6: I'm kind of bummed about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I liked it, and I liked them on.
Speaker 6: I liked running away from it and all that stuff
Speaker 6: and the other interactions with characters and the way that
Speaker 6: the game picks apart its story and scatters it around.
Speaker 2: I felt like worked largely totally with the other characters
Speaker 2: and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I would say, at least for me, even though
Speaker 1: the ending didn't really hit, I still think most of
Speaker 1: the game hit for me in a way that it
Speaker 1: didn't didn't sour the rest of the game. Like, I
Speaker 1: think still like the self, because it did wrap up,
Speaker 1: like the general mystery of what was happening, and the
Speaker 1: arcs of characters like you know, like the Hound and Thomas,
Speaker 1: like and Marianne's backstory, like all that stuff is resolved,
Speaker 1: and so it wasn't like you finished it and you're like, ah, man,
Speaker 1: like nothing, I don't know what happened at all, Right,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it does conclude in a
Speaker 1: way that I still found very satisfying. It was just
Speaker 1: that the ending felt like it was trying to go
Speaker 1: for them, like this new thing that I just wasn't
Speaker 1: putting together with the rest of it. But I overall like,
Speaker 1: I still enjoyed my time with it, and despite the
Speaker 1: fact that the ending didn't didn't work for me, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like it. I like most of that game.
Speaker 6: I'm just like I said, I just feel like I
Speaker 6: was missing something right at the end that would have
Speaker 6: tied it all together A little bit better than it is.
Speaker 6: And I'm not sure if it's just intentionally trying to
Speaker 6: leave itself open to an interpretation and I'm lacking some
Speaker 6: aspect of that interpretation, or if it's or if it's
Speaker 6: the game's basically so maybe I need.
Speaker 2: To go back and do it again.
Speaker 6: But the rest of it was good, and I, like
Speaker 6: I said, it really scratched that itch for sort of
Speaker 6: a silent hill or silent hill too, really kind of
Speaker 6: experience where it's like, yeah, all these everybody in this
Speaker 6: game is terrible, and they're all terrible for different reasons,
Speaker 6: and they're all they're all justified and being terrible and
Speaker 6: not justified and being terrible.
Speaker 2: Well that's not, that's not. Don't quote me on that.
Speaker 6: Two or three people have some justifications for some of
Speaker 6: their actions occasionally, and then it goes off the reels
Speaker 6: and most people are really bad. And I like the
Speaker 6: game's commitment to, you know, flushing out characters in that
Speaker 6: direction that you're not going to like and being willing
Speaker 6: to make it harsh. I guess in some ways, I
Speaker 6: don't know. I like it, like I said, I like generally,
Speaker 6: I like that blueber team goes out and try stuff,
Speaker 6: and this game is all of them going out and
Speaker 6: trying stuff, and they're they're playing in their particular wheelhouse,
Speaker 6: which all their games are kind of like these pick
Speaker 6: up objects here story kind of games, but they are
Speaker 6: they're willing to like go for it and come up
Speaker 6: with some cool ideas and and put the kind of
Speaker 6: things you would see in a video game in some
Speaker 6: hard directions. And I like that this game exists, and
Speaker 6: I like that they're growing for those things, and I
Speaker 6: had a fun time playing it for the most part.
Speaker 1: Would you agree, Jordan, I mean, you give an out
Speaker 1: of tons, so I guess, so, yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 3: I liked it a lot. I would say, like two
Speaker 3: Phill's point, like the way that it just handles I
Speaker 3: guess it's not even really environmental storytelling, because it was
Speaker 3: environmental storytelling, you wouldn't even have to pick up anything.
Speaker 3: But the way that it just slowly pieces everything together.
Speaker 3: And I even almost in this weird way, appreciate the
Speaker 3: fact that even though it's a horror game, it's not
Speaker 3: altogether super scary. It's more like just dread inducing, like
Speaker 3: you just feel uncomfortable for long stretches of time. And
Speaker 3: I think a huge part of that comes down to
Speaker 3: the sound design and music, like both composers like the
Speaker 3: highest highest of props and the vocal tracks that you
Speaker 3: can find and get at the end, like Sublime Exquisite.
Speaker 3: I love all of them, but I like this game.
Speaker 3: I like it a lot. It's a good first console
Speaker 3: exclusive for Xbox to have for its new generation. I
Speaker 3: understand that, like sometimes things happen and you have to
Speaker 3: delay things, and maybe this game would not have done
Speaker 3: nearly as well had it actually come out the same
Speaker 3: day that Cyberpunk did because that was its original release.
Speaker 3: Oh god, but I want to say so delaying it
Speaker 3: is cool, I wish, but I still kind of wish
Speaker 3: that we could have gotten it like a little bit
Speaker 3: sooner to just showcase it's like, oh yeah, Xbox will
Speaker 3: have games this generation. Well, I guess I can't say
Speaker 3: that yet. It's one game, but I hope that this
Speaker 3: is the first time in a long list of games
Speaker 3: that reward me for still being an Xbox guy.
Speaker 1: I agree, and it's for sure. It's like I like
Speaker 1: Sony exclusives, but I think there is sort of a
Speaker 1: general like I don't know how to put it, like
Speaker 1: it's like Sony exclusives remind me like Marvel movies were,
Speaker 1: Like they're all different, but like they kind of have
Speaker 1: that like similar sheen about them. That's like that is
Speaker 1: a first party Sony title, and you can kind of
Speaker 1: you can kind of tell. And that's that's not me
Speaker 1: trying to like I love I love Sony games, but that's.
Speaker 2: A good that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 1: They're all kind of the mc U they have that
Speaker 1: they have that same kind of like look in that
Speaker 1: same Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's a level of prestige with most of PlayStation's first
Speaker 3: party titles.
Speaker 1: And I Xbox doesn't have that. But what I think
Speaker 1: this shows is like they have weird variety where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's this weird game by this like small
Speaker 1: polish studio that wanted to make like a cool little
Speaker 1: horror game that's not gonna hit with everybody, but I
Speaker 1: think does do some really cool things and fills a
Speaker 1: niche that other studios aren't providing, and the people that
Speaker 1: want that are gonna have a really good time with it.
Speaker 1: And you know, like and and and it's all on
Speaker 1: game Pass again, like it's it's just available, like and
Speaker 1: and I'm excited because that gets more people who wouldn't
Speaker 1: normally pick this game up, you know, like a full
Speaker 1: priced or it might not be full priced. I think
Speaker 1: it's like not quite full priced, but really I could
Speaker 1: be wrong. I don't don't quote me on that, but
Speaker 1: I think this would be I think having a price
Speaker 1: tag kind of creates a bear to entry for a
Speaker 1: game that's as weird and different as this. That game
Speaker 1: pass just like opens up that door for for more
Speaker 1: people to try it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Totally agree to it, and I think it's a it's
Speaker 1: a honestly like more so than like a Halo. Like
Speaker 1: obviously Halo would have been great to have, but I
Speaker 1: do think this is like a great opener to like
Speaker 1: the potential future of what Xbox could bring this generation,
Speaker 1: which is just weird stuff.
Speaker 3: If Xbox can get two or three of these in
Speaker 3: between the releases of all their like big flagships like
Speaker 3: Halo and Gears, like excellent, it'll be excellent.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, I mean I really appreciate it because this
Speaker 6: is niche as hell, Like this is extremely you know,
Speaker 6: old horror game from nineteen.
Speaker 2: Ninety eight Field you like that, and like, yes, thank you,
Speaker 2: that's me. Thanks.
Speaker 6: I appreciate that, so like, yeah, that's it is. This
Speaker 6: feels like a roll of the dice and in a
Speaker 6: cool way. And I appreciate you know, Blueberg going for it,
Speaker 6: and I appreciate Microsoft going for it absolutely.
Speaker 1: All Right, well, I think that's going to wrap up
Speaker 1: this spoiler chat in depth discussion. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Phil and Jordan for joining me on this.
Speaker 3: That was a lot of fun, it was. Thank enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so if you guys enjoyed it. Presumably if
Speaker 1: you're at the end of this, you played the medium.
Speaker 1: If you have your own thoughts or opinions on it
Speaker 1: as far as maybe what you think the ending was about,
Speaker 1: or anything else we didn't discuss that you wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about, you can go ahead and hit us up.
Speaker 1: If you're in the game Spot Discord, you can leave
Speaker 1: a question them there. If you're not in the Game
Speaker 1: Spot Discord, you can hit me up on Twitter at
Speaker 1: johns yp and I can get you in. We also
Speaker 1: have our email. I believe it's oh god, Jake always
Speaker 1: does it. It's a game Spot after Dark podcast, no
Speaker 1: after dark podcast, a GameSpot dot com. I think.
Speaker 3: Shaking his head right, now he can't hear this, but
Speaker 3: he's just shaking his head.
Speaker 1: A combination of those words will get you to us somehow.
Speaker 1: I'll put it in the description, so check that. But
Speaker 1: thank you very much for listening, And if you want
Speaker 1: us to do more of these spoiler casts, we love
Speaker 1: doing these. We like just it's it's a fun chance
Speaker 1: to do in depth discussion that we normally don't get
Speaker 1: to do for games. So maybe maybe let us know
Speaker 1: another game you'd like us to do one of these four?
Speaker 1: All right, thanks for watching, guys were listening this audio.
Speaker 3: Bye, Thanks see ya.
Speaker 4: By Caffy More.
Speaker 7: More ghost to half come before.
Speaker 2: I'm on this road back home
Speaker 7: Somewhere Cross