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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellow sikos, I am Dan Fa Valley,

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joined by, as always my certain podcasts Time You was

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co host mister Grant Hughes. The first podcast of twenty

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twenty five. This is coming out on New Year's Day

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because we don't really give a shit about what day

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of the week it is. We just put out content

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as we can fit it into our schedule. We are

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talking about our biggest questions for every NBA contender, with

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some of those contenders being put in quotation marks. Mister Hughes.

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We're recording this right before the new year is rung in,

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so I'm not gonna ask you how your twenty twenty

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five is going. I could do the thing where I

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say I'll see you next year and then you can

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give me that smirk. But how are you doing as

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we close out twenty twenty four? I'm doing really well.

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Speaker 2: You reminded me that the i'll see you next year thing,

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like ha ha is real big among second graders. I

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learned that. I learned that from my son, who is

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just like, got to say it the other day and

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was like really satisfying.

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Speaker 1: But is it coming back around? Because what's the are

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you considered a millennial.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm right on the borderline. I don't identify

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as I don't. I prefer not to.

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Speaker 1: So what's the generation before millennials? Gen X?

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Speaker 2: I'm so stupid and bad about this. I think it's

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Gen X.

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Speaker 1: That's the one that is still getting a kick out

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of the because my sister, what my older sister is

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part of that generation, and I feel like those are

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the people that I really like, see you next year,

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and then you have to like put on the like

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that face. But also I feel like when you go

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to places, maybe in retail too, they'll like. But it's

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always some of the older people say it is maybe

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a joke or like they think they're I don't have

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an actual issue with it, but it's nice to know

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that it felt like it was fading out, like I

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don't encounter it as much anymore, but it seems like

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it's gonna come back around. So shout out to mac.

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Speaker 2: Look yes, yeah, I think you know? And and gen

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X really, I don't think a millennial has ever done

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anything funny, right, it's gen X is the last comedic generation.

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Who have I alienated with that? I've I don't know,

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people talk about like, oh, millennials are this way, and

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gen Z is this way, and gen X is this way.

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I don't know where the cutoffs are, Like I don't

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know any of that.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, so I don't know what I know that. I'm

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firmly a millennial, so that makes it easier. But millennials

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are also we ruined the world. I guess our alvocado

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toast was a thing. That's why no one could afford houses.

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Speaker 2: They were supposed to save it. And look where we are. Okay,

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So as we move into the future, I just want

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to surprise you with I'm moving into the past and

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being fully analog because I have handwritten notes today. Can

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you see that on the look you always have hand

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written notes. No, I'm trying something new. Used to I

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used to do a lot more handwriting, not cursive, because

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I can't do that anymore, I don't think, but written

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by hand, and I just like absorb this is this

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is my gen X talking. I just absorb information better

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if I'm reading it like from a physical thing and

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or writing it on a physical thing. Even now, like

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typing is a different you know, we type a bajillion

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words every year, but like something about handwriting, so I'm

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gonna try. You'll hear shuffling papers as we're talking today,

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so that's some nice asmr to the pod that.

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Speaker 1: Low shit because he swears by that, and look, he

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doesn't have his podcast out right now. So if you

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need the low post replacement, here we.

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Speaker 2: Are and do so clearly we're better and always work.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should try that, but I do feel like

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when I'm typing things, so my notes, I have a

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document a Google docs millennial over here, but like, I

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do feel like I'm taking it in more rather than

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like sometimes I'll just like map out a blueprint in

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my head depending on the topic. So maybe the next

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level is okay, now let me get a legal pad

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like Grant has. I'm gonna write that's just so much

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more time consuming.

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Speaker 2: This could go to shit. We'll find out. So what

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is the topic we're going to talk about today?

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Speaker 1: Though? Well, we have our questions for every contender and criteria.

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You're how did we approach this, Grant?

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Speaker 2: This is it's very scientific. So one one thing is

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we're taking the teams as they are. This isn't what

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we're you were driving at with the criteria, but like

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the question can't be can they Wire, Jimmy Butler or

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what like that. Like we're not as we're talking about questions,

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we're also sort of pointing out weaknesses. And the weakness

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can't be does not have zach Lavine or it does

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not have jim You know, that's not the spirit of this.

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That's one thing, but mainly, like this is a weird year,

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and we've talked about it in several different times, but

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isolating the contender class is tricky and there's a lot

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of teams that could be in it, and we've gone

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probably farther than we need to in terms of the

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length of this list, but the basics are and now

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I can't remember what level we said they had to

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get to, but essentially, if they made the finals, it

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can't shock you, and we could even extend that to

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like conference finals.

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Speaker 1: That's how I approached. It wouldn't surprise you if this

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team was in the conference finals, So like it could

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be it could be a mild surprise, or you'd have

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to say, like, oh, x Y and Z must have

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gone right, or like X Y and Z didn't go wrong,

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depending on which teams we're going to talk about, But

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it can't be like, no way you can't.

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Speaker 2: It's it's like the facial expression for those of you

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watching would be like if Team X made the finals

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and you were like, what like did a full double take?

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Not a contender, but if it was like, huh, like

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that's still contender class Like if it's just like a

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slightly bemused exclamation, that's that's going to qualify. So I

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don't know how many teams we have. I didn't count,

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but there are a lot of for the kids and

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not a lot of shocked faces. So that's kind of

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where we are. And I forget anything about our scientific criteria.

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Speaker 1: No, that was ultra scientific, and I think it's going

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to make for an excellent discussion that is one inarguable.

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First up, the reigning champion Boston Celtics. What is our

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biggest question for them, mister Hughes.

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Speaker 2: For me, for a lot of this, the biggest question

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was trying to think of what question I ask about them,

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because this is kind of our no notes team. They've

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been They've moved into the no notes category several months

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ago and have stayed there. So you're kind of hunting

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for for like what you can't say, can Christ for

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Zingia stay healthy? You can't say like that. That just that's

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not the spirit of this, or I didn't anyway, maybe

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you went that way. So a couple like small things.

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It's like can they force some turnovers? Do they need to?

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That's like a relative weakness. I don't know if they

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need to do that to get out and run because

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they have the number two half court offense. So like,

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not a problem there. I'm just running down the things

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I thought of before and dismissed.

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Speaker 1: It right really quickly. I did the exact same thing

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with them because it was just like there wasn't anything

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that felt worth zeroing in on to make an in

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depth discussion. That's just a bunch of like these stray concerns.

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Speaker 2: So what I landed on was, is Drew Holliday slipping

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a little bit, like as my question and and like

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the thing with the player like him is we're thirty

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two thirty two percent from three when we put these numbers.

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When I put these numbers together, it's right around there. Oh,

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you have him at thirty I have him at thirty two. Proprietarily,

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I have him at thirty two point six percent when

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I did these numbers, which is like four days ago.

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So that could be wrong by now, But so that

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wouldn't matter to me so much because he does all

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these like the marginal editions are like off the charts

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with him, Like oh, the defense, the smarts, the this,

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that and the other, can do everything. Takes nothing off

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the table. But there was that Memphis game where the

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Grizzlies just left him alone and you know, won that

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game because he shot seventeen threes. It's just an insane

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number of threes and didn't make enough. And really was

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the first instance, you know, in the last eighteen months

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where you looked at the Celtics and were like, oh,

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that's an exploitable weakness that somebody like picked at. I

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don't know that that's like anything Boston's remotely concerned about

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going forward, because he could just make those shots or

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they'll figure out how to, you know, counter that defensive scheme.

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And it's not like every team's trying that either. So

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that's the best I got is is Drew Holliday going

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to be a good enough shooter to not get ignored

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in a way that maybe makes things harder for Boston

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than we saw during last season's playoffs. But like we're

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grasping at Straws here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that kind of I went a bit like more

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general and said, are they more vulnerable this year? He's

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I think at the start it felt like they were

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less vulnerable. Drew holliday shooting is a part of that.

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Even Jalen Brown's three point shooting. Christops is not shooting

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that well from three this year. Then you do have

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his health. They're allowing a higher percentage of shots to

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go in at the rim, even though they don't allow

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a ton of shots at the rim to go in

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in general. And then don't they feel I don't know

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if it's just because Sam Hauser had been battling a

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back injury, but don't they feel thinner on the wings

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all of a sudden, which doesn't necessarily make sense because

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this is pretty much the same roster as last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit, I think Pritchard, I don't know

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if they're thinner at least now they got another guy

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that sure seems like he's basically a starting caliber player,

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but yeah, he's not a wing. So your point, yeah,

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they've they've always kind of quietly been thin at the wing.

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Right whenever we have to come up with a trade

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target for them, it's always like guys like Oshae Brissett

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who like wound up on the team.

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Speaker 1: That's why they feel more vulnerable he's not there.

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Speaker 2: Well, they just need it. Always feels like they need

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that guy like one. If you had to put some

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kind of positional need, that would be it. But like,

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I don't know, they're gonna win sixty whatever games and

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that just you know, have experience. Now, it's really hard

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to have like a salient question for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just I can't everything we just mentioned. If

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we had to measure our concern level for it, it's

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like mine would be at like a one point five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we got next, Dan, This is the Cleveland Cavaliers

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has a better record than the Celtics so far, are

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on pace for seventy two wins as we record this.

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What question do you have about them?

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Speaker 1: So I have two questions. One really quickly, when are

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we going to take the calves super seriously? They have

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a right now have a top five net rating of

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all time. At some point it needs to we can't

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start rehashing the twenty twenty three playoffs. But my actual

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question does kind of align with that of what is

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their primary weakness right now? And I think you can

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point to different things of do they have another gear

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on the glass? They're in the bottom of ten, and

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both offensive and defensive rebounding, they're in the thirty fifth

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percent offensive rebounding and thirty seven percent tile of defensive rebounding.

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With both of their bigs on the court, that's been

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basically ingrained into the makeup of this team. You also

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have opponents are shooting forty percent from three against the

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starting five, and I think, or excuse me, with the

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core four on the court, and I think that's the

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thing I'm kind of lasering in on, is like there

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could be noise in there, but is there a size

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issue on the perimeter to where no, they're not giving

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up a ton of wide open threes. Opponents are shooting

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like forty one point five percent on them, which is

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the second highest mark in the league. But I look

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at it and say, well, because if you're gonna play

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a korro with Mitchell and Garland, you're not especially big

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on the perimeter, and so is that gonna make it

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easier for teams to get off those shots even if

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they are quote unquote contested. And I think you go

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back and watch the answer can sometimes feel like yes

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there And then the other question I would have to

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this again, was another team out of trouble settling on

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well Isaaca Corro's three point shooting whole into the playoffs

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because this is kind of year two of Oh, he's

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hitting his threes in the regular season, how much does

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that matter if he's not gonna hit him in the playoffs?

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And that might make the actual question of who is

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the best like this is the cliche question, but do

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they have the best possible fifth member to attach their

246
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core ford to optimize what's gonna happen in the playoffs?

247
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Where is it Dean Wade, is it Max Shrew's, is

248
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it Isaaca Korro? Should it be someone else? You can

249
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even get into. Not all of our teams will be

250
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as scattered, I promise, It's just this team has been

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so good, like the George and the Yaneng minutes have

252
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been really good this year, Like do you want an

253
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upgrade at that spot?

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Speaker 2: Though?

255
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Speaker 1: Headed into the postseason? Well, caris LeVert continue to play

256
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this well, especially on defense? And the answer that might

257
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just be yes, because this is what year two or

258
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three of him really rationing it up. I don't know

259
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if you have any thing different to add on them.

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Speaker 2: No, that's really so I didn't go the direction you did,

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which is which is I think makes this interesting. I

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think it's it's kind of fascinating to when you're viewing

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the Cavs, like, obviously their best players are playing great,

264
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but it's also the case that like all these guys

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that you would slot into that fifth spot that are

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like admittedly imperfect in some way, you know, like whatever

267
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it is, or have been viewed that way, like Dean

268
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Wade can do this, and Carri Silvert can do this,

269
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and Ti Jerome does this, and Max Struce does this,

270
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and Isaaca Korro does this, like none of them are

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giving you all of what you want from that spot.

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So I think the answer to your question is like, no,

273
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they don't have the optimal fifth guy, but all these

274
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suboptimal fifth guys and not you know, like Jerome doesn't

275
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really fit that category, but it ties into these role

276
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guys are playing incredibly well and shooting like beyond any expectation,

277
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and so it's like we're not going to get an

278
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answer to do they have the optimal guy, or at

279
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least we haven't so far, because like all these guys

280
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that are just like, well he'll do are playing incredibly

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well and like to my eye, and this ties into

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my question for them is like, just is this offense

283
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and shooting specifically sustainable because you mentioned it like Lavert

284
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and Ocoro and Jerome and just everybody is lights out.

285
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It's it's been incredible, not just threes, right, which they

286
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do lead. They're forty one and a half percent from three.

287
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That's leading the league. The Wolves led the league last

288
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year at thirty nine point six, So we're two percent

289
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better than last year's league leader, which is like, doesn't

290
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sound like a lot, but that's enormous. So like when

291
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regression comes, which it just has to, what's that look like?

292
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I think that I have no questions about the defense.

293
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I just think the defense is going to be good.

294
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Speaker 1: So you're not. You think the three point stuff is

295
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more noise.

296
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Speaker 2: Than my I think I hadn't even to be honest,

297
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I hadn't thought about that, But like, I think if

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I looked into it more closely, maybe I'd be persuaded.

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But to me, like the if there's something that feels

300
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harder to sustain, to me, it's it's the offense. Because

301
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like even down to like, they don't shoot a lot

302
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,440
of mid rangers, but they have the highest conversion rate

303
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,799
in the league from short, mid range and mid range overall.

304
00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:56,840
I think I don't know. Sorry, I'm gonna consult my

305
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handwritten notes. Yeah, but Jerome is Jerome is leading that, like,

306
00:14:02,879 --> 00:14:05,320
these guys aren't gonna be this good all year, most

307
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,679
of these like supplementary players. So like, does that just

308
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,919
mean they're not they're gonna win sixty five games or

309
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you know, sixty seven instead of seventy plus that they're

310
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,399
on pace for And is that a problem? Probably not,

311
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,039
But that's where my eye went was just the shooting.

312
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Is nobody shoots like this over a full season.

313
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Speaker 1: They've and I had no natural way to work to say.

314
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:26,000
I wanted to show Evan Mobley is the photo for

315
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,360
him Washington YouTube, because he's shooting like fifty something percent

316
00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:31,159
on three and a half three point attempts per game

317
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:33,279
in the month of December, which is that'll cool off,

318
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:35,600
But we've seenok Ti Jerome is already cooled off. Looking

319
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:38,639
at December. Max Struz is not shooting well. Sins returning

320
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:40,960
the lineup, They've won every game he's played there. I think,

321
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,919
what are they They've only lost one game, They only

322
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,159
lost one game in December. So do you think that's why?

323
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,559
Because this might actually be the question about because why

324
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:51,679
don't why doesn't it seem like they're being taking as

325
00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:55,440
seriously as Boston or Okasee and maybe even in Dallas?

326
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,080
Is it? Do you think it's more so because of

327
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,559
the hot shooting up and down the like is that

328
00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:02,440
if you had to pinpoint it, do you think that's it?

329
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:05,279
Or do you think people are just kind of overthinking

330
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,120
this at this point? Because, as I mentioned at the top,

331
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I don't expect this to hold, but they right now

332
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,120
have like a top five net rating of all time.

333
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,759
Why can't we just accept that they're a legitimate threat

334
00:15:13,799 --> 00:15:15,240
to win it all? It still feels like there's a

335
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,600
little hand ringing going on here.

336
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Speaker 2: I think that's totally right, and I think it's really

337
00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:23,720
interesting because like, what what you want to say in

338
00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:26,200
answer to your question is like, well, because they haven't

339
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done it yet, right, Like they haven't proved it like

340
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:30,639
which I don't know. I think it's kind of an

341
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outdated thought, but I do still find myself kind of

342
00:15:34,799 --> 00:15:37,960
buying into the whole idea of you don't just go

343
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from like first round out to they want a playoff

344
00:15:42,279 --> 00:15:44,679
series last year? Right, but it was it was a

345
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:46,960
rock barely against the Magic. Yeah yeah, right, it was

346
00:15:47,039 --> 00:15:53,399
just a So they sort of have satisfied the criteria

347
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,159
of like, Okay, you got bounced, then you advanced around,

348
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and so like incrementally, it's not crazy to be viewed

349
00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:03,360
as a title threat. I think it's like the combination

350
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,919
of the Celtics have done it and are close to

351
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,960
is good statistically, and then it does seem unfair that

352
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,279
we view them differently than the Thunder because what have

353
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,720
the Thunder proved more in the postseason than than Cleveland?

354
00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:19,000
Like not really, they just they were anointed preseason in

355
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,759
a way that Cleveland wasn't. But uh, I mean, I

356
00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:24,799
don't know, it is a little unfair. I think it's

357
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,919
I think it's just that there's enough of the well,

358
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,679
we haven't proved it, Like I think Cleveland really is

359
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,799
subject to the let's see it before we believe it thing.

360
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:35,679
I don't know. I don't really know why that is.

361
00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:38,000
Speaker 1: I viewed them the first three teams who are about

362
00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:39,600
to get to the next one. I view these are

363
00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:42,120
the teams that's no, these aren't We're stretching here, Like

364
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:45,240
these three teams to me are Capsock title contenders. Yeah right,

365
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaking of which, could you talk to us about Dallas Mavericks,

366
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:49,159
mister Hughes.

367
00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 2: Well, just to give you a little I'm gonna turn

368
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,480
to my second page of handwritten notes because I had

369
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,320
two other teams that I thought of in this tier

370
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,360
before them. This is the correct tier, though I don't

371
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,440
think Dallas belongs up there with.

372
00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 1: With na tier them. This is alphabetical for anyone listening.

373
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Speaker 2: But right, but I had so Boston and Cleveland were

374
00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:07,359
in my top tier. There's another team that is up

375
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,720
there obviously, but Dallas is right in the Wow seems

376
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,640
like yeah, yeah, I just have a feeling. Jonathan Minga

377
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,400
had thirty points in back to back games, Dan, I

378
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,200
don't know if you know that. So this is like

379
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,559
less statistical. I think I just wonder if Dallas has

380
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,680
enough from their three and D players to like just

381
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,920
improve on what they got last year, which is like

382
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,319
would be winning the finals because they made the finals

383
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,119
last year. And I think so just looking at the percentages,

384
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,079
like basically other than Naji Marshall, like, so I'm talking

385
00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:44,880
about PJ. Washington, Clay, Quentin Grimes. Those guys are all

386
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,119
between like thirty eight and forty two percent from three.

387
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,559
No problem, the three is satisfied. Marshall hasn't hit, but

388
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:51,599
he's really more there for the defense side of it,

389
00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:56,319
And the problem is like defensively, basically everyone's kind of

390
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,440
grading out as average just looking at like defensive lebron

391
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,440
on ball index, Clay has actually graded out best defensively

392
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:06,519
of that group, which doesn't really yeah, which is like

393
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,279
I don't know that's a good metric, but a skeptical

394
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:12,400
of it. Nobody's great, Like nobody's great, nobody's terrible. Everybody's

395
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,759
kind of around the average, and Clay's been slightly better.

396
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,079
But like that's the those are the spots because you

397
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,279
know you're gonna get assuming he's healthy. We're not gonna say,

398
00:18:21,319 --> 00:18:23,839
can Luca get healthy from this calf thing, because obviously

399
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:27,160
that's a question. Assume you will. It's just it's just

400
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,599
gonna be do they get enough made open threes from

401
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,240
their supplementary players and can those guys defend? And I

402
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:36,640
don't know the answer to that yet because it's hard

403
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,160
for me to believe Klay Thompson is going to be

404
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,400
your best, you know, perimeter defender. I think that's probably Washington,

405
00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:44,160
maybe ExHAM. I don't know, is x I'm supposed to

406
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,880
come back this year. I feel like he's like fallen

407
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,279
off of my radar. But that's my question. I don't

408
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:51,519
I don't know. I hope you went something more statistically

409
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:53,279
in depth. I just those role guys have to be

410
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:55,400
Are they good enough that That's the only thing I'm

411
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:55,960
not sure about?

412
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I so I have something that's kind of similar

413
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,519
to it was do they need to go out and

414
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:05,079
get someone who plays checks more of the like both

415
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,079
ends of the floor boxes on the wing, because I

416
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,519
think if you're looking Jayne Phinney Smith got traded to

417
00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:11,400
the Lakers. This wasn't my first immedia thought, but it

418
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,079
was like, oh, that would have been perfect for the

419
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,200
Dallas Mavericks, where, yeah, maybe you want someone with a

420
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,400
little more ball skills. When you're looking at your top

421
00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:21,839
end lineup, that fifth spot still feels like it still

422
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,519
feels like it's up for grabs and any answer that

423
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:26,160
you want to throw in there, it feels like you

424
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,039
leave sort of a void with where Klay Thompson I'm

425
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,160
gonna have questions about him defensively in the playoffs. Still,

426
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,599
maybe he just proves us wrong there, Quentin Grimes, is

427
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,920
he big enough Naji Marshall? Can he stick with the

428
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,319
coverages you want to hit enough of his threes and

429
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,119
maybe not get suspended. But I'm team nause versus when

430
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,559
you go down to that suspension if anybody cares hashtag

431
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,920
team Naji. So I think that's a fair question with them.

432
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,160
The other thing that's just a little I don't This

433
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,240
hasn't generated a lot of buzz, but this team is

434
00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:57,279
on paper like they're really huge, and yet Luca and

435
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,160
Quentin Grimes are the only players who graded out as

436
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,000
above average rebounders for their position according to Cleaning the Glass.

437
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,680
So when we're talking about finding that two way guy

438
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,400
like a Dwarnan Phinney Smith isn't going to help you

439
00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:12,160
on the glass, do they need to take a flyer on,

440
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,480
like a backup big who does more for them on

441
00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:18,559
the glass than a Kliba or Daniel Gafford. And then look,

442
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,759
we've seen them up Derek Lively's minutes, like where it's

443
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:24,319
not this split share at the center like not as

444
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,920
equal as it was, but like, do you need someone

445
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,039
else who might be okay, if we know Derek Lively's

446
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:31,200
gonna top out at what, let's say he tops out

447
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,039
at thirty five minutes a game, Like, do you need

448
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,680
a more versatile option than a Gafford or even a

449
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,039
Kliba who like a more traditional big than a Kleva

450
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,079
Kliba who's more versatile than Gafford to kind of soak

451
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,519
up that time. So that was like, that's kind of

452
00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:46,400
my other question with them is like, why why isn't

453
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,720
this team better at rebounding? And like that's been you know,

454
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,880
there's a lot at excuse me to be clear, they're

455
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,160
they're actually grabbing a larger share of defensive rebounding than

456
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,480
they were last year, but they're still twenty fifth just overall.

457
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:01,079
And like for the side they have on this team,

458
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,680
and I know that's always like a lot of the

459
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,119
time that's been a knock against Daniel Gafford. That's just

460
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,720
something I'm kind of monitoring, but I think it speaks

461
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,880
too if you want to focus on that how good

462
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,839
this team is that we're splitting hairs, Like they're winning

463
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,440
the non Luca minutes this year, So they're gonna be fine,

464
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,000
Like he's gonna be out. And by the way, the

465
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:19,519
other thing is when you look at the time players

466
00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:23,920
are spending off ball this year, there's like maybe seven

467
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,519
players who have seen that off ball percentage go up

468
00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:29,559
more than Luca. And between that and now there's this injury,

469
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:32,839
obviously he's just gonna be fresher than he's ever been

470
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,079
for the playoffs now and that should terrify the rest

471
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:37,000
of the league. And so this was another team, right,

472
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,680
I didn't necessarily struggle, but like we're not talking about

473
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:41,920
high level concerns here at the moment, right.

474
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,559
Speaker 2: No, I and I think, yeah, it's the the cornerstones,

475
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:49,039
the rough ideas are like they've all got we've got

476
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:52,240
proof of concept. We understand how Dallas can make a finals.

477
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:54,559
Like it's just a question of can they get enough

478
00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:56,920
supplementary stuff from their role guys, whether it's a big,

479
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,759
whether it's you know, a rebounder, whether it's three point

480
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:01,279
shar get I.

481
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,079
Speaker 1: Do you think it's the wing area is probably the

482
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:05,839
more pressing need. But like this team just looking at

483
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,680
the size to be twenty fifth and in defensive rebounding

484
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,319
is just it's off putting. Who's next up.

485
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:13,839
Speaker 2: This is the Denver Nuggets, and I think it's your

486
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,480
turn to come up with a question for them.

487
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: First, why my question for them is this team going

488
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:25,920
to operate at a high enough level defensively to actually

489
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,119
be a contender Because this is the first If you

490
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,160
left the Nuggets off, I would understand type deal. And

491
00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:35,400
their defense has been all over the place this year.

492
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,119
They're twentieth in points allowed per possession, They're eighteenth in

493
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:44,480
half court defensive rating. They are getting blasted in transition

494
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:47,200
at points. I know Aaron Gordon has missed time this year.

495
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:51,279
They're slightly above average with him on the floor. I

496
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:55,240
think the buzzword or buzz words or buzz phrase has

497
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:57,839
been screen navigation with them because they don't have Kntavious

498
00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:00,960
Caldwell Pope. I think you need to start getting into

499
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,279
more of Okay, well, what does that mean? Like Christian

500
00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:06,920
Brown is not as good navigating screens as Contavious Colbo Pope.

501
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,319
What's the consequence of that or what's the trickle down effect?

502
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,559
And it does when you're watching them, it feels like

503
00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:15,680
it's leading to just more quality looks in the half

504
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,000
court and opponents aren't necessarily nuking them from deep, but

505
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:22,079
they're taking more shots from deep this year than they

506
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:24,680
were last year. They are technically one of the better

507
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,599
teams at limiting wide open threes, but you've seen an

508
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,160
increase in the share of shots that account as wide

509
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,519
open threes. If you're a Denver Nugget's opponent, they're slightly

510
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:37,359
I think you're probably with the amount of threes Denver takes.

511
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,400
The fact that they only lose the three point battle

512
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,240
by a little bit more than six points a game

513
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,519
is probably a w but their rim defense this year

514
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,440
is noticeably worse, even though they don't allow a ton

515
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,920
of opportunities there they are. They are eighth. This was

516
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,799
I was actually shocked when I saw this. They rank

517
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,720
eighth in points a lot per possession against pick and

518
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:59,720
roll ball handlers. They're not a good team at like

519
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:03,200
out or defending spot ups. I just look at this

520
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,319
personnel and I just threw a lot of just stuff

521
00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:09,599
out there. They're confusing the hell out of me. And

522
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,839
even when you dig into their tier of performances grant,

523
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,559
they are fifteenth in points lab per possession against top

524
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,599
ten offenses. They're fourteenth in points lab per possession against

525
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:23,279
offenses eleven through twenty and they're twenty fifth in points

526
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,599
laub per possion against bottom ten offenses, and so it

527
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:29,079
makes you wonder is there a play better button there?

528
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,039
And Jamal Murray's kind of talked about it where he's

529
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:32,519
just opening a middle like, Yeah, I've been really bad

530
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:35,519
on defense at points, and there's certain games where it

531
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:37,920
feels like it takes this team way too long to

532
00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:40,519
turn it on and I don't think they have that

533
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:42,799
margin for error. And I'll wrap it up with this.

534
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,319
My actual thought on their defense is what losing Bruce Brown,

535
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,000
who they couldn't have kept, and then losing Contavius called

536
00:24:50,039 --> 00:24:54,039
Wollpope did is it just exhausted your defensive stores too

537
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,920
much to the point where everyone has to take on

538
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,920
more responsibility. And so Christian Brown as an example, more

539
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,400
offensive responsibility on top of defensive responsibility. Naturally, it feels

540
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,640
like it's led to maybe not slippage on defense, but

541
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,119
when you're worried about his screen navigation, feels like he's

542
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,759
dying on more of them. Aaron Gordon feels like he

543
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,279
has to wear more hats. You look at even a

544
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:20,279
Peyton Watson excuse me, or Michael Porter Junior, anecdotally speaking,

545
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,559
doesn't feel like they're making as many plays around the

546
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:27,359
basket defensively anymore because they're the scope of their responsibility

547
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,079
has just increased, and it feels like that is what

548
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,240
is happening here with them. And as of right now,

549
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:34,400
before you respond to this, if I had to answer

550
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,160
my own question, the answer is no. To me, I

551
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,400
don't know if you feel any differently.

552
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: It's tough. I definitely give them, so I wouldn't have

553
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,839
felt good about leaving them out of the contender class,

554
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,119
just almost irrationally, just because all they have YO kitchen,

555
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,480
They'll figure it out, Like that's not an argument, but

556
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:55,839
that's that's kind of how I felt. So I actually

557
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,680
fixated on the defense too. I kind of have two

558
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,799
for them, but the one I raised I have. I

559
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:02,799
think what you said really kind of crystallized it for

560
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,680
me because I was looking at how they're about four

561
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,680
per hundred worse defensively with Yokic on the floor, and

562
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,559
so I started looking into like, oh, no, are we

563
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,880
back to where the argument was before they before he

564
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,920
disproved it. Can you build a defense that is good

565
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,599
enough to win a championship with Yokic in it, and

566
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,200
for several years I think he answered that affirmatively, like

567
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,920
he can be good enough in a system if you

568
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,200
use them the right way. And so what you're talking

569
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,240
about squares with what I was looking at. It doesn't

570
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,640
feel like it's Jokic defensively, that like is really the problem.

571
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,920
It's that opponents are just making a lot of jumpers

572
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,599
when he's on the floor. And that ties to what

573
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:41,319
you're talking about, which like a bad screen navigation, its

574
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,240
clumsy clothes outs like just you know, it's it's not

575
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,079
just Jokic. I do think anecdotally Yokic has looked worse

576
00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:50,279
on defense, but I wouldn't cite him as the like

577
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,160
principal problem with what's going on defensively. Curious what you're.

578
00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: Saying, Yeah, And doesn't it seem like they're using him

579
00:26:57,519 --> 00:27:01,640
more conservatively? And maybe that's too They almost have to

580
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,839
do that because can you bring yok I would have

581
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,200
to see data on it. Maybe I'm just missing something,

582
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,599
But can he come out as aggressively when you know,

583
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,519
sometimes like you're just looking at the perimeter defenders and

584
00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:14,519
they just don't feel as equipped to cover up behind

585
00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:17,920
him anymore? And that's again Contagio's Cabo Pope wasn't doing that,

586
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,160
but he put you in a position to where it

587
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,720
was easier for the other guys. Two have then done that,

588
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,319
and I'm wondering if that's sort of like a trickle

589
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,119
down effect of losing him as well.

590
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they've just you know, they've peeled off

591
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:31,160
a key guy every year for the last couple and

592
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,599
so like that eventually just adds up if the younger,

593
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,920
if the Watson's and the Browns of the world aren't

594
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:38,920
can't do exactly those things or can't like do what

595
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,640
they do well in support of these other good players

596
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,839
that matter, Like you just it's an it's attrition. You're

597
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,359
just you're losing guys that matter, and I think and

598
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,200
you're getting a year older too, and piling up injuries

599
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,680
at key positions. The other the other issue I was

600
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,200
going to raise or question was just like it's really basic,

601
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,319
but it sort of if the answer to this is no,

602
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:01,160
then nothing else matters, which is, can Jamal Murray play

603
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,960
like an All Star like consistently? Yeah, just like because

604
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,000
if the answers no, then it doesn't really matter how

605
00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:11,960
much better the defense can get and like, I just

606
00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:14,799
I just don't as great as we agree Jokic is

607
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:18,000
I think he needs some help, like he needs somebody

608
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,519
else that's going to really concern the defense and Murray

609
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:22,720
Knights tonight is just like not that guy right now.

610
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,079
And so yeah, that feels like a threshold question for me,

611
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:28,519
which is that's a play better button kind of thing too.

612
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:31,440
I guess like can he just not be bad sometimes?

613
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,640
Like who know, I don't know. Maybe the injuries have

614
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:35,119
made him a different player.

615
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: When you look at his career and he's been good

616
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,799
by his standards, certainly in December when you look at

617
00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:41,599
it's funny when you look at his career splits about

618
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,440
how he progressively just gets better as the hear goes on,

619
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,519
which is, I know he's dealt with injuries, but I

620
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:49,680
also don't like even in the healthy like cut healthy seasons,

621
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:52,319
I've always like, what are you just not prepared coming

622
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:53,880
into the season? And then my question to you is

623
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,000
why that's.

624
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:56,799
Speaker 2: The thing you do? Hear that he's come in out

625
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,160
of shape a couple of times, which is like haven't

626
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,240
you haven't we all seen the like the reels of

627
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:04,400
his dad like drilling him like crazy with like workouts

628
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,680
and stuff since he was a kid. I don't know

629
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,759
if you've ever feel like every Jamal Murray National TV

630
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:09,400
game we get some something.

631
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,279
Speaker 1: It's like I remember the initial reporting, like that story

632
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:14,599
at ESPN like a years ago about it, and I read it.

633
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,880
I was like child Protective Service.

634
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: Well yeah, he's like doing wall sits with like hot

635
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:21,480
the tea on his knees so you can't don't stand

636
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:23,680
up like but I don't know, maybe that's why he

637
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,599
takes summers off.

638
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,839
Speaker 1: He's like, I've done enough of this bonus question, who

639
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,799
is Calvin Booth going to sign this summer and inexplicably

640
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:31,720
give a player option to.

641
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: Mmmm, let's see we need it's got to be a

642
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:36,559
good one.

643
00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: It'll be gonna be Drew U. Banks. Isn't it like

644
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,039
who's the backup? I?

645
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: Who is the Dario? Sorry, Reggie Jackson? Next next in line?

646
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,640
That's good, We'll go through you Banks.

647
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,119
Speaker 1: This next team is yours and this is a fun

648
00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:51,160
team to claim. I think the Houston.

649
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: Rockets, Uh, can they score?

650
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,519
Speaker 1: That's that's fair.

651
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: The defense is championship caliber. I think it's disruptive, it's

652
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:01,920
it's it's not a smoke and mirrors thing. I think

653
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,799
they can physically overwhelm a lot of good playoff offenses.

654
00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,680
Like we've seen it enough. What we haven't seen is

655
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:13,640
enough individual shot creation consistently from the guys you'd look

656
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,559
for it from on this roster, which is Jalen Green

657
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,400
and which is Fred van Vliet, and the Alprin Shangoon

658
00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:22,400
who's been integral to the defense being this good like

659
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,799
he is at least not hurting it and is often

660
00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:28,079
helping it, I think, which is real growth for him.

661
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:31,720
But him as an offensive hub hasn't. It's not good

662
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:34,079
enough like that just you know, we love that about him,

663
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:36,559
that he can be an elbow facilitator, a guy who

664
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,400
can dominate in the post and be super physical and

665
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,079
pass out of there. The offense, the numbers just aren't

666
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:45,680
they're not good enough. They're twenty sixth in half court offense.

667
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:47,920
And they're doing a little bit of like the couple

668
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,519
of years ago Memphis thing where yeah, they're offensive efficiency

669
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:53,920
overall looks good, but it's a shit ton of offensive

670
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,359
rebounds and they run and they're really good in transition.

671
00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:00,559
And you know, the Grizzlies actually did well the playoffs

672
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,599
given that profile. When that really described them, but like

673
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,079
it's not how you want to make your money in

674
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:09,359
playoff scenarios when you're trying to contend, like you're gonna

675
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,759
need a half court offense. You're gonna need individual shot

676
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,559
creation or a system that gets you a bunch of

677
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:17,400
good looks or more shooters to hit those looks. So

678
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,839
this might be a like can they go get somebody? Question?

679
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:23,839
But but I kind of didn't didn't go that way.

680
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,519
So twenty six and three point frequency, twenty eighth inaccuracy.

681
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:29,319
Half court offense sucks.

682
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:33,519
Speaker 1: Like if this person in grunch time offense too.

683
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: If this defense like goes to waste, it'll be a

684
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,640
Roe bummer because they can really just make life hell

685
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,240
and weighs a lot of other teams over the years

686
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:43,039
have not been able to.

687
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: So it's funny because I have a backup question which

688
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,160
I thought that you might go with something like that.

689
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,880
And the only note that I have to add is,

690
00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:52,519
I know people have harped on Fred van Fleet like

691
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:54,440
as the shot like always not doing what you need.

692
00:31:54,519 --> 00:31:56,880
It's like that's never actually been what Fred van Fleet.

693
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,119
Speaker 2: Is way overstretched in that role.

694
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,839
Speaker 1: Right, and you can see it in crunch time. I

695
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:03,799
was actually surprised their crunch time offense was twenty first.

696
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:05,279
I thought that was impressive for.

697
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,319
Speaker 2: That, right you it comes up nothing happens on offense.

698
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: You don't know, like Jalen Green leads this team in

699
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,759
unassisted points and that's not okay because Jalen Green is

700
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:17,519
not good enough to do that. Yeah, and I like you,

701
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:21,440
the Memphis Grizzly profile is great, but like come playoff time,

702
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,799
may have had their struggles. I know they've advanced in

703
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,400
the past, but and like really put up fights. I

704
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,880
do want to ask you this question then, though, do

705
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,359
they like is now the time to like they could

706
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,599
go out and get somebody? They've been mentioned, They're the

707
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,880
team that has assets. They're gonna be mentioned, Jimmy Butler,

708
00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:40,480
Daron Fox, the Melow Ball. They've already been mentioned for

709
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,720
two of those guys. I I feel like I have

710
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:45,680
a contrarian answer to this question which I want want

711
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,599
to ask you, like, is now the time to do that?

712
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,519
I'm not even saying it needs to be Well, I

713
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:53,559
guess I am looking at it through the lens of

714
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:55,480
a bigger name, But like, if you're the Rockets, you

715
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:58,279
have the assets to do this You're really good by

716
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:00,640
the way, Like this isn't And I think that's part

717
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,960
of the confusion with the Rockets too, is they have

718
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:05,799
one of the five best point differentials against top ten

719
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:08,960
point differential teams. Yeah, like this team has like picked

720
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,079
up some big time victories, and so I understand the

721
00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:16,799
temptation to say, well, they can acquire someone who makes

722
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:19,640
a meaningful difference, like a call it a number two guy,

723
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:22,119
and they don't need to give up any of their

724
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,440
core players basically to do so because the salary matching

725
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200
they have and the picks that they have, is now

726
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:28,880
the time to do it?

727
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:33,039
Speaker 2: Well, why isn't it. Why wouldn't it be the time?

728
00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:35,559
Because you don't know yet? Can some of the guys

729
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,920
currently here develop into the types of players we need

730
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,759
because they you know they've got It's been a story

731
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,759
for a couple of years, Like they're loaded with young prospects, right,

732
00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:48,599
Like is it because you think so? My? My? My.

733
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,319
The reason I answer with the question is like, if

734
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,400
it's Fox, like, I think you go do it because

735
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,559
I think Fox addresses so much of what you need

736
00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:57,319
and doesn't really take anything off the table you could

737
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,200
even like it doesn't have I get you know, you

738
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,240
gotta have salary going out, but like you don't even

739
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:05,240
need to think about like, oh, well, what do we

740
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:06,880
do with van Fleet? Like vanfle could come off the

741
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,800
bench and run second units if you want, if you

742
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,639
don't want to play them together like I, I wouldn't

743
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,199
do it for anybody like I don't like Butler doesn't

744
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,000
do it for me, Levine doesn't do it for me,

745
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,119
Ingram doesn't do it for me. So if it's Fox

746
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,400
feels like a different class of asset because of his youth,

747
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,679
because of his like how good he is now and

748
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,000
how good he could how long he can stay this good?

749
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,639
But I'm curious to hear your rationale for why now

750
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,800
isn't the time. I don't have a strong opinion on it,

751
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,440
but my gut would be like, if you can get Fox,

752
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,320
you should probably do it.

753
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,039
Speaker 1: I do think I Land there. I was trying to

754
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:43,199
think of the players that would because my answer is no,

755
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,360
I don't think that now. If you're talking about the

756
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,320
one I've advocated, can they use like the Jock Landel

757
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,519
Ja Chante, Jeff Green, steven At, like any of those

758
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:53,679
contracts to get more shooting in here a Duncan Robinson

759
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,000
type or just like insert shooter there, the Mikey rotation

760
00:34:57,039 --> 00:35:04,760
minutes my whole My reservation though, is one trading alprinshangun

761
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,559
or more importantly, Jalen Green. It just you can't do

762
00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:10,639
it right now, like because of the way that the

763
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:14,000
poison pill works. Jalen Green is an example. He counts

764
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,599
his twelve point four million in outgoing salary for Houston

765
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:19,559
and then he counts his twenty nine point five million

766
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:22,320
in incoming money for another team. That's just too big

767
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,440
of a gap to like, you can do it, but

768
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:28,519
it's too complicated mid season, and I think Jalen Green

769
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,119
absolutely needs to go out in any deal that they're

770
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,639
making that's larger, because taking on his deal at this

771
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,440
point is probably gonna be part of the appeal. Like

772
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:40,440
if you're the Rockets, like the other team taking on

773
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,519
his deal, and so what are you gonna do if

774
00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:46,000
you trade for a darn Fox, You're gonna then try

775
00:35:46,039 --> 00:35:48,920
and find a taker for Jalen Green over the summer,

776
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,639
in which case what is that doing for you? So

777
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,800
the timing feels off with I don't want to Yes,

778
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,639
you could use Fred van Fleet as a team option

779
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,039
for salary matching. You have Dylan Brooks. I just mentioned

780
00:35:58,079 --> 00:35:59,800
all the expiring guys. You could step out of your

781
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,599
way there. You can do it, but I'm of the

782
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:05,719
mind that you already have not too many guys. But

783
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,679
like Reed Shepherd doesn't get consistent playing time and so

784
00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:11,280
or it doesn't get a ton of playing time. So

785
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,199
why are you gonna even complicate the pecking order more

786
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,599
to where if you get let you de Aaron Fox

787
00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:18,639
an example who I want to be clear, our colleague,

788
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,559
Our colleague Eric Pinks at Bleacher Report, by the way,

789
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,719
came up with a trade that would get Houston darn

790
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,119
Fox without costing them any of their Phoenix Suns picks.

791
00:36:27,159 --> 00:36:30,760
Reed Shepherd goes out Ama, and Thompson stays, I probably

792
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,559
push comes to chef I do something like that. But

793
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:36,360
at the same time, like, if you get a Daron

794
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,679
Fox or someone else, like, you're probably hurting Jalen Green's

795
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,320
trade value down the line because his role is gonna

796
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,039
get smaller. So you become better now, but I don't

797
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,960
think it optimizes your roster moving forward. And honestly, I

798
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,679
think the bigger thing for me is I want more

799
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,880
information on this team. There's no move, there's no can't

800
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,920
miss move that won't be available to you over the offseason.

801
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,639
And when it becomes easier to you, who is Jalen

802
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:05,079
Green specifically as part of that the salary matching going out,

803
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,400
and then also it kind of leaves open the possibility

804
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:12,239
everything we're just describing, there's a chance that Reed Shepherd

805
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,000
can do it, and why not give him the opportunity

806
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,599
before you go that route. Look, he's probably not gonna

807
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:20,000
get that opportunity this season. That does lead me to

808
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:25,320
my final concern here. How often do these mid season

809
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,400
trades result in just smooth sailing? And I keep coming

810
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,159
back to the Timberwolves trading for Julius Rando and Dante Divincenza,

811
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:34,679
where it seems like some things are starting to be

812
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,119
figured out. Now almost halfway through the season, You're not

813
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:40,320
gonna have that kind of time after the trade deadline.

814
00:37:41,039 --> 00:37:43,079
So I would just rather when you're dealing with so

815
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:45,880
many youngsters, do I believe that the stuff we think

816
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,320
they need on offense is already on the roster? I

817
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,159
think it could be Read Shepherd. I don't think he's

818
00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:53,920
ever gonna have that opportunity, at least this season. So

819
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,400
the answer is probably know. But I don't think there's

820
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,239
gonna be a big enough trade off to where you're

821
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,760
gonna get the boost that you need immediately that would

822
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,719
convince me to well, I'm going to compromise getting more

823
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,119
information on the players I have in place, just so

824
00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:10,519
I can be slightly more appealing in the playoff. Because

825
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,599
this team is they're Vitals, they're a title contender. They're

826
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:15,239
not winning the title this year, right like the er

827
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,840
Box is not pushing them to a title. And so

828
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,119
if I'm the Rockets, I mean this is a compliment.

829
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:22,199
Some fans will probably take it as an insult. I'm

830
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,000
just waiting. There's again, if it's Fox or the metal

831
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:27,480
Balls kind of the other name I've been But I'm

832
00:38:27,519 --> 00:38:29,880
considering it, and you could talk me into it. I

833
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,280
just don't see as much value in the Rockets making

834
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,119
the consolidation trade mid season as I think some other

835
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:36,599
people do.

836
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:40,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really the the idea of it being a

837
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,119
mistake to sort of acquire players at the cost of

838
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,760
or over the top of year, young guys that you

839
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,760
think are going to develop. Shepherd was one we haven't

840
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,599
even talked about. Really. Cam Whitmore, who who knows, but like,

841
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:55,960
if Cam Whitmore becomes a really good NBA player, it'll

842
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,920
probably be the type of player that they would be

843
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,760
going out to, Like the guy who justs and bunches

844
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,719
and can be an offense by himself. Like not saying

845
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,199
that's gonna happen, but if things go as well as

846
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,480
they can for Whitmore, that's who I see him being.

847
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,519
Is like, oh, we need that guy. He can get

848
00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:12,679
us twenty six a game, moderate efficiency, can go get

849
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:15,679
his own shot, all that stuff. The risk in that,

850
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:18,519
and I think you've the compelling the most compelling part

851
00:39:18,519 --> 00:39:20,079
of the argument is what you said about just the

852
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,000
timing of it and like the poison pill stuff, and

853
00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:24,239
like it's just yeah, you're right, like mid season is

854
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,679
not the time to do it. I think I agree

855
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:28,360
with that now that you've talked me through it. The

856
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,920
risk of like being concerned about bringing in someone over

857
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,039
the top of Shepherd or whatever's just like not going

858
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,719
to give them the opportunity is that like Shepherd's value

859
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,880
or Whitmore's value is actually going to go down because

860
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,960
if we go through another year of this, the mystery

861
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,199
box stuff is washed off a little bit and now

862
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,079
it's like, you know, I'm trying to think of a

863
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,760
good an example of someone who you could have traded

864
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,039
for a lot. I'm just thinking about a bunch of words.

865
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:57,039
Think about it.

866
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,039
Speaker 1: This is on a smaller scale, but think about what

867
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:03,000
happened with the Nixon Obi toppin Sure, Yeah, how much

868
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:05,480
his trade value degraded year over a year and they

869
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,480
ended up moving him for second round compensation.

870
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brandon Pajemski right now, like, oh, we can't trade him,

871
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,400
and then he has a horrible start to the season

872
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,400
and it's like, well, his value is lower, like because

873
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,719
he got the opportunity and then he didn't do anything

874
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,840
with it, and so it's value like that could happen

875
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,320
with Shephard or Whitmore or whoever else. But I like

876
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,880
the idea that they're like the rockets are good, like

877
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,199
they can have they're ahead of schedule again because we

878
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,440
didn't see a leap like this, and they made one

879
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:33,199
last year. So it's like you're you're you're a year

880
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,119
plus ahead of schedule on any like rational development curve.

881
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:38,039
So I think, I think, I think I agree with

882
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:39,679
you that they don't need to do it. But but

883
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:43,239
if the question is the offense, like wherever it comes

884
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,559
from organic growth, you know, trade, it's just it isn't

885
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:48,039
good enough and it has to be better if they're

886
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:49,320
going to contend, like for real.

887
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,599
Speaker 1: And by the way, the other thing too is just tidle.

888
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:55,360
Windows are so fleeting now that you don't necessarily want

889
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,400
to start the clock sooner than you have to. And

890
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,719
your point about some players not being worth as much,

891
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,559
this I totally get. But maybe internally if you acquire

892
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:06,599
the Aaron Fox, you're not expecting a championship this year,

893
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,480
But like the entire interpretation or view of your team

894
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,280
shifts as soon as you like people. Most people don't

895
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,719
consider like, oh this is gonna take a while to

896
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,559
figure out that they don't fucking care, Like if you

897
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,519
make that, and to be fair, if you're gonna make

898
00:41:18,599 --> 00:41:20,639
a move that costs you multiple first and maybe a

899
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:24,320
prospect like a blue chip prospect or two that pressures,

900
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,320
it's it's more, it's yeah, and it's probably also fair.

901
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,239
I'm probably again, like how many teams have been able

902
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,039
to kind of I'm not saying Pearl clutch all of this,

903
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,360
but aside from Boston and Oklahoma City, and like Boston

904
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,199
has undergone a lot of different iterations. It's just like

905
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:43,920
you don't see these title windows opening for very long,

906
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,719
and so I'm not gonna start the clock sooner than

907
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,719
I have to. If it was a matter of like

908
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,639
Jalen Green would be a good example, should you have

909
00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:53,480
extended him, like that could have ended up being a

910
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:57,400
miss for them. But like if it was a matter of, oh,

911
00:41:57,559 --> 00:41:59,960
this is read Shepherd in year two, but it's not.

912
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:02,599
It's recephering year one. It's like his trade values not

913
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:05,000
And like I don't think Jabbari maybe his trade values

914
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,159
a little bit because he's coming up on an extension

915
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,960
eligibility and he's been on even on offense this year.

916
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:11,639
But I don't look at any of these players, even

917
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,199
Cam Witmore. I think after year two you still retain

918
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,320
that mystery box.

919
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 2: Appeal probably, So yeah, I think that's right.

920
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,519
Speaker 1: Oh man, this team, the Memphis Grizzlies, Are they my

921
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:22,360
team or they? Yeah?

922
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,559
Speaker 2: I think tell me what your question about the Grizzlies is?

923
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: I mean, can they stay healthy? But that's neither here

924
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,639
nor the answer to that is no. John Moran is

925
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:33,000
weak to week as we record this, and they'll just

926
00:42:33,039 --> 00:42:36,599
be fine because they're the Grizzlies. Uh, my question that

927
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:38,119
is actually kind of similar to what it was for

928
00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:41,119
the Rockets. I want to know if the offense is

929
00:42:41,159 --> 00:42:44,559
playoff proof here and they're doing You mentioned that video

930
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,079
already done by Ben Taylor of Thinking Basketball that everyone

931
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,440
check it out on YouTube. Their offense is kind of

932
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,119
like you watch it and it's it's bizarre in a

933
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:55,760
good way, and look the vitals. They're gonna back that up,

934
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,119
and like, forget about their overall offensive rating, which they're

935
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:00,199
still they're still in the top five as we record this.

936
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,199
I believe they're sixth in points scored per possession. I

937
00:43:03,199 --> 00:43:07,679
think more importantly for them, they're eleventh in first chance offense. However,

938
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,719
they're still eighteenth in a half court because a lot

939
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,519
of the stuff they do is going to be it's

940
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:13,719
proded on getting an offensive rebound it or more importantly,

941
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,840
getting out in transition. They're twentieth and three point attempt rate.

942
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,800
They are twelfth in percentage, but I think you could

943
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,760
argue that they're they're not taking enough of them. They're

944
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,519
sixteenth in crunch time offense, which I was actually kind

945
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:29,760
of surprised by. I was very curious not curious because

946
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,559
they were mentioned in the Dorian Finny Smith sweepstakes, but

947
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,840
the two players that were rumored to be going out

948
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,480
John Conshar and Luke Canard or like some of the

949
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,360
in theory, some of their best like higher volume three

950
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,519
point shooters, and so is, well, what are we kind

951
00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:45,880
of doing here? Because they don't have a single aside

952
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,800
from Desmond Bane, who's been all over the place this

953
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,440
year himself, they don't have like an off the bounce

954
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:52,840
three point threat, and they're one of the worst pull

955
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,280
up jump shooting teams in the league. I just question

956
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:00,559
not I not. I guess it isn't a bad way,

957
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,320
Like do they need to get a higher end I

958
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,880
don't even think it needs to be a shot creator,

959
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,119
because you have Jaron Jackson Junior, you have Desmond Bay,

960
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:09,320
and you have Jaw you have just all these guys

961
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,880
who would handle the ball too. But they to me,

962
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,639
I think they need to get like a higher end

963
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:17,119
floor spacer in here for this offense to to really

964
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:19,960
be postseason proof. Because I did dig into some past

965
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,320
like regular season versus postseason. For the most part, you're

966
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,719
gonna see transition frequency drop in the playoffs, and it's

967
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,800
it's gonna happen. I would argue a lot of the

968
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,000
time after those live rebounds, like teams are just gonna

969
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,239
be you're playing better teams, for one, but teams are

970
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,559
gonna be more locked in on getting back, and so

971
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:42,480
I view that as a fragile part of Memphis's offense. Yes,

972
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:45,119
and I would just wonder. I'm not like, I don't

973
00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:46,679
think dor if Fanny Smith was the answer. I think

974
00:44:46,679 --> 00:44:48,440
he was a good fit for the team. But I

975
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:51,280
kind of think that they're not thinking if that's the

976
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,360
guy they circled as that's who we want. I don't

977
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,599
think they're thinking properly about what they need to be

978
00:44:57,679 --> 00:44:59,440
upgrading ahead of the trade deadline.

979
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. We're pretty group thinking

980
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:04,960
on this one. My question was can Memphis prove its

981
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,679
offense is not a gimmick, which is basically the same

982
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,840
things like is this play is this playoff viable? I

983
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:12,119
have some numbers though, because like this is my new

984
00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:15,079
thing I'm most fascinated by, because it arises at a

985
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,320
time where all the criticism of all the offenses are

986
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,199
all the same, is really out there, and so I like,

987
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,880
I'm really gonna make it a point over the next

988
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,920
month to just watch as many Grizzlies games as I can,

989
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,239
because like what they are doing is fundamentally different than

990
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,719
any other team. Like it's you don't want to overstate it,

991
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,559
like it's not a revolution because who knows if it's

992
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:35,920
gonna work one, but it is like a legitimate shift

993
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,880
in how offense is played. So like their last in

994
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,679
pick and roll ball handler and rollman frequency, So like

995
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,199
the percentage of their plays that involve either like it's

996
00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:45,599
a pick and roll league, it's been that way for

997
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:49,719
twenty years. Their last by a ton in frequency. They're

998
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,280
tied for last in shots taken off screens, they're last

999
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,920
in handoffs, so they just don't do the pet actions

1000
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,800
that have defined NBA offense. They're number one in transition,

1001
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,440
for could see, number one in spot ups. That's kind

1002
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,679
of the spot ups I think are the more interesting

1003
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,519
part of it, because transition is just like kind of

1004
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:09,039
a want to as opposed to the spot ups is like, no,

1005
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:13,239
we're we are creating those shots through our offense. Number

1006
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,599
one in in drives per game and one of the

1007
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,440
highest pass percentages in the league on drives, So it's

1008
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,760
a little OKC like drivekick, drive kick, drivekick, and score

1009
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,920
at some point in that process. But it's like the

1010
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,480
numbers are just ex beyond extreme for how they play,

1011
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,320
and like if you watch it, you want that Taylor

1012
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,840
video is amazing, Like they have they spread the floor,

1013
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,519
somebody drives, the whole rest of the team like shifts

1014
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:41,920
in concert, like in like clockwise counterclockwise, they all just

1015
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:45,239
move to space. I've never really seen an offense like this,

1016
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,559
let alone at the NBA level.

1017
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: So like there's Draymond Green, there's d Like.

1018
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: I hope it works because this is potentially really exciting.

1019
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,000
This we're getting far afield because I'm just like really

1020
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,920
interested in this. But when's the last time you have

1021
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:03,280
a team playing offense unlike anyone else? Like I just

1022
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,519
do we have to go to when the Warriors started

1023
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:07,760
shooting a bunch of threes or like the Rockets did

1024
00:47:08,159 --> 00:47:11,800
the heliocentric Harden thing, Like it doesn't happen that often.

1025
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,639
It's like in every five to seven years thing. And

1026
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:16,840
if you're just ditching the pick and roll and like

1027
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,559
not setting screens anymore, like it's been fifty years since

1028
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:22,559
a team thought that was a good idea.

1029
00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:23,159
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

1030
00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:25,039
Speaker 2: It's interesting. Who knows if it's gonna work in the

1031
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:27,239
playoffs though, that's really the question at the bottom of it.

1032
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: And it's a weird question to have about the Well,

1033
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,800
I guess I'll loop it into two teams because just

1034
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,320
top six is a weird way to cut up, Like

1035
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:35,159
them and the Thunder are the only two teams in

1036
00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:37,119
the top seven of both offensive defense right now and

1037
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:39,559
for so long, Memphis was the only team in the

1038
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:42,320
top five of both. And I know that's regular season

1039
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,599
is different than the playoffs, and they have a lot

1040
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:47,519
of depth. It's just funny how we're questioning whether what

1041
00:47:47,639 --> 00:47:49,480
is maybe one of the seven most efficient offenses in

1042
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:51,880
basketball overall can hold up in the playoffs, and we

1043
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:56,559
tend to view depth as not we don't ding teams

1044
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:58,719
for it, but we just write it off in the playoffs.

1045
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,440
Is well, like you kind of want to shorten your

1046
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:03,440
rotations to seven or eight guys when it matters most,

1047
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,599
and they're I don't, I mean, are they even built

1048
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:07,679
to do? Like who would be the seven or eight guys?

1049
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:09,760
You're just playing a playoff series on the Grizzlies. There's

1050
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,840
no way for them to shorten a rotation right now.

1051
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 2: Right well, and you want to cause like you're gonna

1052
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,800
take Jake Laivia out of the rotation just to have

1053
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,039
a career year, Like, can't do it, Sanchiel Dama, can't

1054
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:20,159
do it, Like there's all these guys. Yeah, that just

1055
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,119
I don't know that's that might be. Actually another question

1056
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,440
is like is it realistic for the Grizzlies to expect,

1057
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,679
you know, eleven deep to be makings like is Jay

1058
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,800
Huff gonna get like fourteen playoff minutes and be awesome?

1059
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,519
Because that's the night to night thing now, but like

1060
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:37,960
it we don't.

1061
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: Even Jackson's not even in the equation right now. That's

1062
00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:43,679
what we expected to play. Yeah, they might have the

1063
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,440
rookie of the year by the way now too, just

1064
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,360
the way Jen Well might be rookie of the year.

1065
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:49,559
Speaker 2: Just stay healthy and he's gonna get it.

1066
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 1: This team is yours. And by the way, Memphis was

1067
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:53,880
not a team. They were a team that was an

1068
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,320
easy inclusion. Uh, the Milwaukee Bucks though, mister Hughes, what

1069
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,199
do you think about them?

1070
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,199
Speaker 2: Through my here all right here we go just on

1071
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,880
my note pat here. So this was another hard one

1072
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,800
for me cause there's just like depending on which section

1073
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,320
of the season you want to pull from.

1074
00:49:11,679 --> 00:49:13,639
Speaker 1: They've had like five different seasons already.

1075
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing, Like what are we talking about?

1076
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,559
So I'll just rapid fire them and maybe you can

1077
00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:21,840
tell me which one you want to run with. Can

1078
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,400
Middleton be a true number three, of an elite number

1079
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,039
three on a playoff team, like he's been kind of

1080
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:29,360
a number two when they won it? He got damn now,

1081
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,000
so like you know, the responsibilities on him or lower,

1082
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:34,440
but he's still just critical. Can he hold up physically?

1083
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,199
Will the bad transition defense matter? They get absolutely smoked

1084
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,360
off live rebounds, and that's just like you're Maybe that

1085
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,320
just means you're old. Maybe that means too many of

1086
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,400
your guys don't care. Like does that change in the playoffs?

1087
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,400
Can you summon the effort it's going to take to

1088
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,159
get back when you miss a shot? Like that's we

1089
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:55,199
talk we minimize transition in postseason play, but like if

1090
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,760
you're just not running back like on makes or misses,

1091
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,320
like that's that's an issue. Are we worried about three

1092
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,119
point regression from guys like Prince who's just had the

1093
00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:06,679
best shooting season of his career to a lesser extent

1094
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,360
Middleton aj Green like. So I don't know. I think

1095
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,599
I named four or five things there. Do any of

1096
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:13,360
those map on to what you picked?

1097
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 1: I think I ultimately landed on is the defense playoff

1098
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,360
caliber because ever since they started the season two and eight,

1099
00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:23,519
they have a top eight offense and a top nine defense,

1100
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:26,679
and so that's really good. And the offense, I know,

1101
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,320
when you dig into certain lineups, the defense is out

1102
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,679
performing the offense. I just with Dame and Giannis, their

1103
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,280
chemistry is better. No one gets Giannice the ball like

1104
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,320
Chris Middleton. Either their offense to me, with their most

1105
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,079
important units, even if it's not okay right now, it's

1106
00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:44,960
going or it didn't start the season okay, and then

1107
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,960
it hasn't rebounded enough during this stretch, and then you

1108
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,360
have the Dame and Giannis injuries to boot with that

1109
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,760
it's going to be fine. So I find myself more

1110
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,320
drawn to the defense, which it sounds like you do

1111
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,000
as well, obviously, I just aside from the transit and

1112
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,400
by the way, during this stretch, they're still by five

1113
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,800
in transition defense off live rebounds and so the number

1114
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,039
you mentioned for the year, but even during their rebounding

1115
00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:08,119
stretch like that's where they've struggled. They still struggled with

1116
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:11,920
transition defense, ball containment. For them, it can be fine

1117
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,159
on some nights, it could be terrible on other nights.

1118
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,599
I think that they probably need to get more athletic.

1119
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,760
They're in the fourteenth percentile in defense against screens, thirty

1120
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,480
eighth percentile in defense against pick and roll ball handlers.

1121
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,960
I just don't And then this is the weirdest thing.

1122
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,960
Bobby Portis is the only one of their top nine

1123
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:32,840
rotation players with an above average three point contest per

1124
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,679
seventy five possessions. Their screen navigation among the bigs is

1125
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,719
not good, and I know part of that it might

1126
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,280
be the way they defend. But even looking at Bobby

1127
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,199
Portis and Giannis, forget about how you use Brook Lopez.

1128
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:46,559
I think there are real spots to pick at with

1129
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:48,800
this defense when you get into a playoff setting. And then,

1130
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,360
as you mentioned Chris Middleton, I think the question with

1131
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,320
him is Canny be healthy enough? Because when he's healthy,

1132
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,039
and my answer will be, yeah, he's a number three

1133
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:57,840
or a number two, that's fine, But does he give

1134
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,480
you another spot to pick at on defense? You're playing

1135
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:02,880
him so I'm very interested to see the progression of

1136
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,039
this defense for the rest of the season, but once

1137
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:08,400
they get to the playoffs, I'm even more curious to

1138
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,599
see how that holds up, or where are they exposed

1139
00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:12,920
or where where do they excel.

1140
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny that like kind of it to a

1141
00:52:18,199 --> 00:52:20,800
larger extent than just thinking of past champions like Denver,

1142
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,679
we're asking like can this work in the playoffs? About

1143
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:26,679
Milwaukee even though like they've they've won it, it was a

1144
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,320
very different team. I think it's just did you? Did

1145
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,840
you hesitate at all about even including the Bucks in

1146
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,320
the in our contender group?

1147
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: I did not, because they play in the East, the

1148
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,519
injuries in Orlando, and it was just like, if you

1149
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:42,079
want it to be really stingy, what are you just

1150
00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:45,639
picking three teams in the East? So I felt compelled.

1151
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:48,239
I didn't. I didn't double. I didn't like hesitate to

1152
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,239
include them in here? Did you?

1153
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: I gave it like a split second. But then it's

1154
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:53,800
just like they have Yiannis and he's still playing great,

1155
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,000
Like I'm not going to overthink this like would I would?

1156
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,360
It didn't pass the shock faced test if they ended

1157
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,519
up in the conference finals.

1158
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,199
Speaker 1: No, I mean, there is probably you could probably talk

1159
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,480
me into being less shocked about the Bucks making the

1160
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,599
conference finals than the Knicks. At this point that on, you're.

1161
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: On record as just the Knicks unbeliever, so I expect

1162
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:12,679
that from you.

1163
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: Who do we have next?

1164
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,119
Speaker 2: Oh, the Timberwolves. Do you want to go first? Or

1165
00:53:17,199 --> 00:53:18,039
is this me? I forget?

1166
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,559
Speaker 1: I think this one's me? All right? The question has

1167
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:23,400
to be and I think there's probably two, but they

1168
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,159
tie into each other. Does the offense have another gear?

1169
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:28,880
And can they find the optimal use or fit for

1170
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,159
Julius Randall? And recently they have, but for the season

1171
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,320
they're nineteenth overall on offense, including nineteenth and a half court.

1172
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,360
They are fifty to three point at ten to rate

1173
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,639
and eleventh and three point percentage, even though Dante DiVincenzo

1174
00:53:41,679 --> 00:53:43,960
hasn't shot the ball well. Jade McDaniel's basically an offensive

1175
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,280
zero at this point. Mike Conley's been all over the place.

1176
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:48,760
There's definitely not as much rim pressure, which I think

1177
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,920
is and there's a decline in there free throw attempt

1178
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,119
rate that I think, more than anything, is a function

1179
00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:55,519
of and they Edwards is spending more time putting up

1180
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:58,719
three pointers to help open up the floor. They are

1181
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,960
still I don't know if they're too dependent on Mike

1182
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:05,599
Conley or it's they haven't optimized Mike Conley with a

1183
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:08,159
lot of their lineup usage. This is all coming at

1184
00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:12,000
a time when the Julius Randall plus bench mob is

1185
00:54:12,039 --> 00:54:16,039
one killing it, but two it's being used in higher volume.

1186
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:18,840
And so when you have Randall, nas Reed, Gnaw, and

1187
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,320
Dante Evencenzo on the floor together, the Wolves are in

1188
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,920
the ninety nine percent tile of offense. They're plus fifteen

1189
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,920
point eight per one hundred overall. If you've Josh miy

1190
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,559
Not as their fifth guy, their net ratings forty one

1191
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,079
point one. If you throw Anthony Edwards into that equation,

1192
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,960
they're a plus twenty four point one. I think they

1193
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,800
have found a blueprint to making that work. And it's

1194
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,920
you talked about bringing Randal off the bench. They weren't

1195
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,480
playing rand Edwards separately enough for me to think that

1196
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:48,519
was necessarily gonna benefit them. And I also still wonder

1197
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:54,480
if you're putting Randall in this really like space heavy lineup,

1198
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,239
you are making life harder on Anthony Edwards. Is I

1199
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,360
think what I'm fascinated by moving forward, and so you

1200
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,760
start to dig into it, Auntie Edwards actually has a

1201
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,920
higher effective field goal percentage by about twelve points when

1202
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,480
Julius Randall's on the court, And that comes down to

1203
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,079
to me, even if Rudy Gobert is in there, like, okay,

1204
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:14,840
you can talk about the spacing, but like having that

1205
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,039
other self creator on the floor who's not Mike Conley,

1206
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:20,199
and maybe now that changes a little bit because if

1207
00:55:20,199 --> 00:55:23,639
you're not playing Mike Conley with Julius Randall and Aunty

1208
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,719
Edwards as much so, he's not as marginalized. I'm just

1209
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,960
unpleasantly I'm hopeful for that they've now found a pas,

1210
00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:33,159
especially if Dante Devincenzo is just gonna play like he

1211
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:35,920
has been and he was always gonna come around. I

1212
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,599
still think the starting lineup should be changed. I'm kind

1213
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:40,719
of at the point though, where it's I'd probably leave

1214
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,239
Randall in there, and I put Dante Devincenzo in for

1215
00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:47,320
Mike Conley, and then your first sub to be Mike

1216
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,840
Conley for Julius Randall, and like then you can still

1217
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,840
kind of get to the lineup you want, But it

1218
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,760
always feels like and please correct me if you disagree

1219
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,199
that there's gonna be a fundamental trade off with whatever

1220
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,519
kind of direction they choose, because I would be like

1221
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:04,880
Anthony Edwards seeing his efficiency kind of dip without Julius Randal.

1222
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,320
If you're gonna give Julius Randall the well he's playing

1223
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,800
with three to four shooters at any given point, that

1224
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,199
just means there's gonna be less three to four shooting

1225
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:13,440
lineups available.

1226
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 2: For Aunt to work with him. My question is basically

1227
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:18,519
some version of that. It's just like, how do you

1228
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,400
how do you deploy the players currently on this roster

1229
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:25,719
to get better offense from your starters and your and

1230
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,960
your bench. And it's like it might be as simple

1231
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,440
you could simplify it even for like how do we

1232
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,400
get Anthony Edwards downhill once in a while? Like that?

1233
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:35,880
The three point stuff is amazing, Like I still am.

1234
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,480
We don't. I don't think it's been it has been discussed,

1235
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,480
but it's like it's we're over looking, Like how incredible

1236
00:56:41,519 --> 00:56:43,920
it is the volume and accuracy of his three point shooting,

1237
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,360
which like that was a that was not a strength

1238
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:49,000
like you know certainly in his like pre draft and

1239
00:56:49,079 --> 00:56:52,480
coming up and development. And it's like it's great and

1240
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:53,840
yet I'm like unsatisfied.

1241
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:54,599
Speaker 1: I don't like it.

1242
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: I want I think the best version of the Wolf

1243
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,199
certainly has plenty of threes from Edwards, but like, is

1244
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,280
him getting downhill into space? And so how do you

1245
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,719
do that? And my thought was like, well, take get

1246
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,800
Randall out of there, get a spacer. But I think

1247
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,199
you make a good point of like what I don't

1248
00:57:09,199 --> 00:57:12,119
give Randall enough credit for is being someone that defenses

1249
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:15,079
like must pay attention to, Like you can't ignore Randall

1250
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:17,119
wants to score and is good at it, and so

1251
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:19,360
like a defense has to account for that. So there

1252
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,559
is a benefit to guys like Edward's playing with him,

1253
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:23,559
as you said, and I don't. I'll just admit to

1254
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:27,280
not crediting Randal enough for stuff like that. And so

1255
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,159
then it's like, well, okay, so let's put Devincenzo in

1256
00:57:30,199 --> 00:57:32,719
the first unit. But now you've got Colmly off the

1257
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,519
floor and you have to have Gobert out there, who ultimately,

1258
00:57:35,519 --> 00:57:37,199
if you took Gobert out of the equation, then you

1259
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:39,079
really have the space you want. But like you just

1260
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,480
you have to play Rudy Gobert. That's not negotiable. So

1261
00:57:42,599 --> 00:57:44,719
like Conley not out there who's one of the has

1262
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,880
years and years of experience with Gobert in turning him

1263
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,360
into like a applausible offensive threat, Like, is Gobert gonna

1264
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,599
just make it even harder offensively for everybody else to

1265
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,119
like get into space or get anything done. I don't know.

1266
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,079
Just every every like hole you plug, another one springs.

1267
00:58:03,199 --> 00:58:04,960
You know, that's kind of feel Yeah, holes in a

1268
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:08,119
damn is kind of the issue with with the Wolves offense.

1269
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,199
I do still think there's a mix there that could

1270
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,320
work long term sustainably, even if I still am not

1271
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,320
just gonna love having Julius Randall on my team. I

1272
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,320
think there's ways to get it to a point where

1273
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,039
this defense can be among the best in the league

1274
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:26,239
and the offense can be just good enough. But I

1275
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:28,760
don't know, I haven't seen it yet, and like they

1276
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,320
haven't tried drastic stuff. Maybe that's the next move, is

1277
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,320
you do try benching Conley, or you do try benching Randall.

1278
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:36,760
But that's that's the side of the ball. That stuff

1279
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,119
just has to get sorted out on.

1280
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:43,039
Speaker 1: So I think that's why benching Randall's probably the right answer.

1281
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:47,360
I just don't it's not even optically, But you're you're

1282
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,280
worried about disengaging Randall. Now when he's start, you might

1283
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:50,760
lose him.

1284
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,559
Speaker 2: Right, You're worried you may lose him, and.

1285
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: It's not about lot. You might want to lose him

1286
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:55,920
over the offseason. We still don't know like the true

1287
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,679
motives of that. They could say like, oh, we're trying

1288
00:58:57,679 --> 00:58:59,840
to balance out the roster. It feels like maybe they

1289
00:59:00,159 --> 00:59:02,199
Julius Randall will walk and just save all that money.

1290
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,280
We'll have to wait and see. But that's why I

1291
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,880
would go. And if you make Conley the first sub,

1292
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:09,320
I think that would and Rudy gobarstill on the court,

1293
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,400
I think that would maybe mitigate the offensive trade off.

1294
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,639
But then you're still talking about like what three to

1295
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:16,119
four minute stretch before you pull Randall or whatever that

1296
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,880
you're right though, So that's the holes in the damn theory.

1297
00:59:19,039 --> 00:59:21,920
It does feel I know that we're working. They're on

1298
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,199
a better stretch for recording right now, but they haven't,

1299
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:26,960
like it hasn't been easy sledding for them during their

1300
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:29,880
like mini streak. At the moment, it does seem like

1301
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,239
they're onto something or at least they kind of understand

1302
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:35,920
how to optimize Julius Randall. Now the trick is, how

1303
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,880
do you do that? Well, it doesn't come at the

1304
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,199
cost of everyone else, specifically Anthony Edwards. Just this, Honestly,

1305
00:59:43,239 --> 00:59:46,480
I was not expecting this, But Anthony Edwards with Randall

1306
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:48,840
on the court fifty five point nine effective field goal

1307
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,119
percentage with Julius Randall off the court forty eight point six.

1308
00:59:53,639 --> 00:59:56,280
And then that actually drops too if you include Conley

1309
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,000
in those non Julius Randall minutes. It's drops to forty

1310
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:02,039
six point nine with Conley and no Randall. And so

1311
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:05,280
I think there's something too. Okay, it might be cool

1312
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,039
to put Edwards in lineup where it feels like he

1313
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,320
can get downhill more, But are those then gonna be

1314
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,239
lineups where because you know one defender is gonna care

1315
01:00:13,239 --> 01:00:15,880
about Julius Randall, are you seeing three to the ball

1316
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:18,159
or even two to the ball more when ant does

1317
01:00:18,199 --> 01:00:21,000
get going downhill? And that's you phrased it perfectly with

1318
01:00:21,079 --> 01:00:22,880
the holes in the damn theory. I can't. I can't

1319
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:23,519
do better than that.

1320
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,519
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good point to move on. Then, after

1321
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:26,280
a compliment to.

1322
01:00:26,239 --> 01:00:28,719
Speaker 1: Me, our next team is actually your team? Fuck me?

1323
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:31,679
What's your biggest question for the new York Knicks. Is

1324
01:00:31,679 --> 01:00:33,840
it when will Dan Valley come around on them? Yeah?

1325
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: When is Dan gonna just stop hating on this incredible contender.

1326
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,119
It is funny that I'm I think higher on them

1327
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:45,280
than you, But so like, it's fairly straightforward. Your pick

1328
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,880
and roll defense in big minutes is gonna involve cat

1329
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,880
and it's gonna involve Jalen Brunson, and so far teams

1330
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,480
know that and are using it a lot. The Knicks

1331
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:58,480
face more pick and roll ball handler frequency than any

1332
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,119
other team. They're giving up eight eight points per play,

1333
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:03,960
which is not that's like a middling figure. But if

1334
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,079
you can get a steady diet of that, I think

1335
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:08,880
the trick like it makes playoff offense like very simple

1336
01:01:09,039 --> 01:01:11,880
for opposing offenses if they know they can just get

1337
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:14,480
a decent look on a high volume of pick and

1338
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:17,400
roll ball handler plays. Rollman don't get the ball as often,

1339
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,000
but the Knicks are the worst defense in the league

1340
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,559
against the rollman on a points per play basis. So

1341
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:27,239
that is just my threshold concern is how do the

1342
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,519
Knicks figure out a way to make the one to

1343
01:01:31,519 --> 01:01:34,599
five pick and roll not just a no brainer go

1344
01:01:34,679 --> 01:01:38,440
to against every good playoff team, because that's gonna lead

1345
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:42,519
to unless you think Kat and if he's playing center,

1346
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:44,639
that maybe that's part of how we answer this question.

1347
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,960
Unless you think Cat and Brunson are gonna be able

1348
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,599
to handle that, you're gonna have to pull in help

1349
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:52,239
off shooters. You're gonna have smart playoff offense is getting

1350
01:01:52,239 --> 01:01:54,719
corner three like, that's just the thing that has to

1351
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,559
be sorted out. I think it because the offense is great,

1352
01:01:57,639 --> 01:02:00,239
the defense has been better, and if the cat like

1353
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,559
rim protection numbers have normalized slightly, like to just bad

1354
01:02:03,639 --> 01:02:06,760
instead of like unfathomable. But I don't know how you

1355
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,840
build a playoff defense if you're vulnerable against like the

1356
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,960
most basic thing every team wants to run.

1357
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: I basically have the same question. I viewed it from

1358
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,840
the approach of can we get out in front of Well,

1359
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:20,599
people are gonna point to this and say, well, look

1360
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:22,920
at what's happening, and so you mentioned like they're actually

1361
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,519
have the same pick and roll numbers written down, so

1362
01:02:24,519 --> 01:02:27,000
they're middle of the pack and defending those you have

1363
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:29,360
to look at the level of competition number one. And also,

1364
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,599
by the way, though it helps that Michael Bridges is

1365
01:02:31,639 --> 01:02:33,880
defending way better he's on.

1366
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,159
Speaker 2: Both rough night the other night, but like shooting wise,

1367
01:02:36,199 --> 01:02:38,400
but he's had some I mean as Christmas game was insane. Like,

1368
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,679
he's looked better in general.

1369
01:02:40,119 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: And so they're the Knicks Stefens in the sixty first

1370
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,880
percentile with kat on the floor, and then the fifty

1371
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,800
fifth with both him and Brunson. And so if you're

1372
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,480
gonna be around league average with both of those guys

1373
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,000
in the court, that's the goal. Now, start to break

1374
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:56,480
it down by the level of opponent. Against bottom ten offenses,

1375
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,320
they are tenth in point slot per possession and then

1376
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:01,880
by the way, they're fifteen to oh I found that

1377
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:04,559
fat against bottom ten offenses, so fifteen of those games

1378
01:03:04,559 --> 01:03:06,280
will come against really bad offense, and they won every

1379
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,119
single one of them that beat those teams. It's not

1380
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,719
an insult. They are sixteenth in point slot per possession

1381
01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:14,880
against middle ten offenses, so eleven to twenty they are

1382
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,639
still dead last in point slot per posession against top

1383
01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:19,840
ten offenses. And if you want to filter out the

1384
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,840
Celtics game to open Boston, well guess where they rank

1385
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,119
filtering that out, because I did it, second to sixth,

1386
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,039
it's still bottom five. And so that's not accounting for

1387
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:32,159
a huge portion of your schedule. But I would argue

1388
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:34,760
those are the teams you want to think about when

1389
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,920
you're building a playoff level defense. I also think they've

1390
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,760
gone at points to some I don't know if it's

1391
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,480
dramatic or great length to insulate the Jalen Brunson cat

1392
01:03:45,559 --> 01:03:47,400
like pick and rolls, and it's come at the expense

1393
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,320
of other guys don't have a chance to recover onto

1394
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,840
shooters or Jalen Brunson is not gonna be able to

1395
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,039
get there, and to that effect, they're twenty seventh in

1396
01:03:56,079 --> 01:04:00,079
point per spot up possession. That is really bad. And

1397
01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:04,599
I think their challenge is we've talked. Everyone's talking about

1398
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,039
how they need to make trades, and I would probably

1399
01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:09,599
agree they need to get deeper, but the type of

1400
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:11,880
depth they need, they're in a weird spot because you're

1401
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:13,840
not going to replace any one of the core five.

1402
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:16,960
What you need to do is get an extension of

1403
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,280
the perimeter players you have in place who aren't John

1404
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,679
Brunts and so you're looking at Deuce McBride, Josh Hart,

1405
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,840
Mchalbridge's Ojan Andobi. Can you get another one of not

1406
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,400
someone who's as good as those, but to extend the

1407
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,719
minutes where you can maybe defend the same way when

1408
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,880
Jalen Brunson and or cat are both on the floor,

1409
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,960
and the goal should then be okay if you believe

1410
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,239
in your core lineup is going to be able to

1411
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,719
insulate yourself against the cat and brunts and pick and roll.

1412
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:43,519
And by the way, I don't think that's a given.

1413
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,800
I think when you go up against top tier competition,

1414
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:48,000
all the questions you laid out are still going to apply.

1415
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,639
You need to find a way to extend that across

1416
01:04:50,679 --> 01:04:53,760
all forty eight minutes to one help you survive the

1417
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,639
regular season even better than you have so far. And again,

1418
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:58,480
they have like one of the four best records in

1419
01:04:58,519 --> 01:05:01,280
the league, so they certainly belie here, even as a skeptic,

1420
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,239
but also just to give yourself optionality in the playoffs.

1421
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:08,039
And I actually like this is a team that you

1422
01:05:08,039 --> 01:05:09,679
con argue maybe they don't make a move, especially I

1423
01:05:09,719 --> 01:05:12,119
think Mitchell Robinson's gonna be healthy. But I've now looked

1424
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:14,400
at this team and I've kind of vacillated on what

1425
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,039
I think they need. And I'd be open to them

1426
01:05:16,039 --> 01:05:18,760
getting a different type of big, but they need like

1427
01:05:19,519 --> 01:05:22,960
another combo wing, like who can play minutes in a

1428
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,519
playoff rotation? And I think that's the only type of

1429
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:29,840
acquisition that will make me feel better about their defense,

1430
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,880
because I don't like, they have some good evidence, but

1431
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,400
it's not defening evidence. To the contrary, when you're looking

1432
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,440
at defensive concerns and look, they're on a winning streak,

1433
01:05:38,639 --> 01:05:41,159
it just hasn't come against the highest level of competition,

1434
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,519
and they're a really good team. I think it's yet

1435
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:46,000
to be seen whether they're a great team.

1436
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just thinking, like they One thing you

1437
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:53,320
see sometimes when the one to five just can't contain

1438
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:54,960
picking rolls is you just see a lot of aggressive

1439
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,360
try I should have looked up the numbers how often

1440
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,039
they just trap the ball handler and get the ball

1441
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:02,760
swinging around Because you look at the personnel you say, like,

1442
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:06,960
I feel very good about Bridges and og and hart

1443
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,000
like sprinting around to like cover up. You know the

1444
01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:12,840
chain of events you trigger by trapping the ball handler

1445
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,440
with two guys, except like, if they're all gonna play

1446
01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:18,159
forty three minutes and like forty five in the playoffs,

1447
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:21,199
you I don't think you can play the sort of

1448
01:06:21,239 --> 01:06:23,800
defense you would need to play on the backside to

1449
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,079
trap a lot against picking roles right, because like it's

1450
01:06:27,119 --> 01:06:30,119
just so the amount of running and changing direction and

1451
01:06:30,159 --> 01:06:32,400
just like the physical toll of that, I don't think

1452
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,320
that's realistic over like the minutes load that these guys play.

1453
01:06:36,519 --> 01:06:38,639
So while they have the guys to do it, I

1454
01:06:38,719 --> 01:06:41,719
wonder if like that's just not gonna be something they

1455
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:43,920
can actually go to if they need it to against

1456
01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:47,239
a playoff teams. Just interesting setup because personnel makes sense,

1457
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,400
but the minute totals and just like how hard these

1458
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,440
guys have to play, Otherwise you just may not have

1459
01:06:52,599 --> 01:06:53,800
enough juice to get that done.

1460
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,679
Speaker 1: I think we haven't talked about it, but you only

1461
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,840
need when you're in their case. I think you need

1462
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,000
to be a league out defense come playoff time, because

1463
01:07:02,039 --> 01:07:04,880
your offense is just so good their second in points

1464
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,239
score possession right now, and between them Boston and Cleveland,

1465
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,159
any one of those teams are gonna end up in

1466
01:07:09,159 --> 01:07:11,639
in first and so that gives them something of a

1467
01:07:11,719 --> 01:07:14,599
margin for error. But it's not like you can't be

1468
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,480
like I want to see as their schedule gets a

1469
01:07:17,519 --> 01:07:21,480
little bit harder moving forward, you can't be like against

1470
01:07:21,559 --> 01:07:23,480
top ten offenses on the season. If they still hover

1471
01:07:23,559 --> 01:07:26,199
around the bottom five in point slot per possession all season, again,

1472
01:07:26,199 --> 01:07:28,239
we're not even halfway through. That's a red flag.

1473
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, who we got next? This is the

1474
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,400
thunder Dan, I forget who's going first. I bet we're

1475
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,639
gonna have a similar question though, see me, it's me and.

1476
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't think of I didn't what We've talked so

1477
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,400
much about the trade deadline. I didn't want to make

1478
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,840
it a trade deadline question, but I have to. I

1479
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,880
think the only thing you'll point to is just, oh,

1480
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,639
they're twenty eighth in defensive rebounding. It's well, they don't

1481
01:07:50,639 --> 01:07:52,480
have Chet home Grin so they're only like they barely

1482
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,079
had a big at all this season, So I can't

1483
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:56,039
do they have the personnel to do that. Yeah, when

1484
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:58,559
Chet's healthy, they'll improve upon it. They foul a bunch.

1485
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,719
When you're so aggressive enforcing turnovers and also have one

1486
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:03,679
of the best defenses of all time, you foul as

1487
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,039
much as you want. As far as I'm concerned, it

1488
01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:08,519
comes back to the offense, and you don't have to

1489
01:08:08,519 --> 01:08:10,320
look at it through the trade deadline. But as do

1490
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,679
they have enough contingencies too, And I think it boils

1491
01:08:14,679 --> 01:08:17,199
down to two separate things. Do you have enough shooting?

1492
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:19,520
And the answer to me right now is no, even

1493
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,920
if you expect alex Caruso to get better. But do

1494
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,279
you have enough hig volume three point shooting? Or do

1495
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:27,159
you have enough secondary creation aside from Shay Gilch just

1496
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:31,239
Alexander and I want to say yes, especially because we

1497
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:35,479
haven't seen Chet and Jay Dubb play a bunch without

1498
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,479
Shay this season, because Chet has not played really like

1499
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,680
at all this season. But man, when you start to

1500
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,439
dig into the numbers without Shay, the Thunder in the

1501
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,239
fifth percentile of offensive efficiency when he's not on the court,

1502
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:49,600
they're in the forty fourth percentile of half court without him, though,

1503
01:08:50,199 --> 01:08:52,520
they're in the twentieth percent This is with Jay Dubb

1504
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,600
on the floor. Excuse me, when you have Ja Dubbin Hartenstein,

1505
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:59,319
you're in the twentieth percentile without Shay, you are seventy

1506
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,239
first in the half court though. And then for the

1507
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:04,960
numbers that we've seen Chet and j Dub with Noche,

1508
01:09:05,199 --> 01:09:08,319
that was the twenty eighth percentile of offense. That was

1509
01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:12,600
only one hundred and nineteen possession sample size. I am

1510
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,000
actually asking you this question, do you think that this

1511
01:09:16,119 --> 01:09:20,560
team can improve upon that state by doing nothing to

1512
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:22,239
where you might think that some of their guys are

1513
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:24,640
gonna shoot more or better. Looking at Alex Caruso as one,

1514
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,279
because they're twenty first in so they they're twenty first

1515
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:32,000
and three point percentage, which is just not great. And

1516
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:34,039
so they they're the rate at which they get them up,

1517
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:36,359
they're thirteenth and three point a tenth rate. That's kind

1518
01:09:36,359 --> 01:09:38,520
of nondescript too. It's fine, but if you're not gonna

1519
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,399
be one of the best three point shooting teams in

1520
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,000
the league, it's well, do you need more of them,

1521
01:09:42,079 --> 01:09:45,039
especially when you're considered a five out type of squad,

1522
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:48,760
But do they need to go out and actively decide, hey,

1523
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,359
we need to trade for like another higher voe, like

1524
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:53,560
a wing shooter with size because part of the reason

1525
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,119
you might say, why doesn't Aaron Wiggins or Isaiah Joe

1526
01:09:56,119 --> 01:09:58,760
play more than they do? It might be a size thing. Yeah,

1527
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,920
they're small, or do they need to go out and

1528
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,199
get then this can be a sized bedamned thing. They

1529
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:06,680
need another shot creator who kind of cracks the rotation.

1530
01:10:08,199 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 2: So I think right now, I think that's pretty clear concern.

1531
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:17,039
Right now, I think, and you may not get the

1532
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:18,880
luxury to do this, but I would like to just

1533
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,960
see once Chet is back and we have Heart and

1534
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,600
Steign like more fully integrated into the offense, because Heart

1535
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,640
and Sign is a helpful offensive player, like he's a

1536
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,960
good passer, he's sort of by the way like they

1537
01:10:29,079 --> 01:10:31,880
defensive rebound fine when he's on the floor, Like problem

1538
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,279
solved as long as he's on the floor. And that

1539
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,720
will lead into my question, which is a little different

1540
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,600
than yours, But I would be inclined to try to

1541
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:45,039
see if we've got lineup combinations involve Nonchha that involve

1542
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,159
Jada and Chet and hopefully you get some better maybe

1543
01:10:49,159 --> 01:10:51,960
and maybe herten sign and you get some guys like

1544
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,159
like Caruso's the example for sure to just make more shots.

1545
01:10:56,039 --> 01:10:59,079
Can that get you to like passable and then in

1546
01:10:59,119 --> 01:11:02,119
a playoff setting you need to be you can be

1547
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:06,000
passable for eight minutes you know that Shay is not

1548
01:11:06,119 --> 01:11:08,600
on the floor, like I'd like to see if they

1549
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,199
could put a run together where things look better offensively

1550
01:11:11,239 --> 01:11:13,439
with all their guys and you price in and hope

1551
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,960
for better supplementary shooting before I go make a move.

1552
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,960
But I think like the you know, it is possible

1553
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,399
that they just do need to do something. I would wait,

1554
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,960
but like, I don't know how much how much of

1555
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:27,279
a look are you going to get at that sort

1556
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:30,680
of thing based on Chet's return timeline, Like the deadline

1557
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,199
may come and go before you have any idea. So yeah,

1558
01:11:34,239 --> 01:11:37,600
that's a tough call. I understand how it was hard

1559
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,960
to resist the trade deadline angle for this team, specifically

1560
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,039
for me, because we talked about it a little bit

1561
01:11:42,079 --> 01:11:45,039
and never really got too deep into it. Just who's

1562
01:11:45,039 --> 01:11:48,840
gonna close? Like, I think it's just an interesting question

1563
01:11:49,159 --> 01:11:52,600
because the non negotiables are Jada and Sga. You would

1564
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:57,359
assume Chet Hartenstein, I think because of the defensive rebounding,

1565
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:59,720
Like I kind of want Hartenstein out there, and it's

1566
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,760
not like you get Chet to space, so you only

1567
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,439
have one non spacer and that non spacer can pass

1568
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,279
and make good decisions. And then after like is it

1569
01:12:07,319 --> 01:12:09,880
Caruso is a Dort? Is it Wallace? Might it be

1570
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,439
Wiggins some nights? Like I don't know. I just think

1571
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,319
I think it's gonna be a really interesting question because

1572
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,560
one they do have depth for like that last spot.

1573
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,760
Maybe depending on what you need from it. And obviously

1574
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:24,760
we know that a closing lineup is not something you

1575
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,079
lock in for the full season or the full postseason.

1576
01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:29,239
But I think it's just an interesting way to think

1577
01:12:29,239 --> 01:12:31,840
about this team is to is to look at like, well,

1578
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,960
who do you actually want out there, all things being equal,

1579
01:12:35,079 --> 01:12:37,479
to finish a game? Because for a team this good,

1580
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,800
it's weird that we're not one hundred percent sure.

1581
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like, to simplify it even further, would

1582
01:12:43,079 --> 01:12:46,359
be are they gonna close with one or two bigs

1583
01:12:46,399 --> 01:12:48,840
more often than not? It's kind of the question, and

1584
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,560
I would have argued it would have been one big.

1585
01:12:52,119 --> 01:12:53,920
Well I did argue before the season started up, but

1586
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,079
that was like pre Aux Carus are shooting sub twenty

1587
01:12:56,119 --> 01:12:58,479
eight percent from three, and so I think that makes

1588
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,760
things interesting. I just certainly back to the trade deadline think,

1589
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:03,600
which I like might tie into the like do you

1590
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,560
need a trade for someone who's part of your closing lineup?

1591
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,760
Then I would advocate towards them standing pat, I want

1592
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,000
to see what this all looks like when check comes

1593
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,920
back at the same time. And maybe I'm just being

1594
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:16,960
kind of an asshole here. If you're not gonna figure

1595
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,000
out a way to make Aaron Wiggins a bigger part

1596
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,000
of your rotation, then if you think you would play

1597
01:13:22,039 --> 01:13:25,239
Cam Johnson more because he's bigger, like an Aaron Wiggins

1598
01:13:25,359 --> 01:13:28,399
plus empty salary for Cam Johnson, not empty salary but

1599
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,680
Ustman Jank or just another salary that comes close or

1600
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,119
will work mathematically, that might be something to look at then,

1601
01:13:35,239 --> 01:13:38,119
because I think Aaron Wiggins a really good basketball player.

1602
01:13:38,119 --> 01:13:39,640
I know he's not shooting the three ball well this month,

1603
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:41,199
but and I don't think he's actually the answer to

1604
01:13:41,279 --> 01:13:44,279
more shot creation, but like it's kind of someone who

1605
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:46,920
toes the line between guard and wing and is pretty

1606
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:49,720
plug and play at both ends of the floor. Like

1607
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,680
that's what I want to see more of. And so

1608
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:53,479
if you're not gonna, like, if you can't get to

1609
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,119
twenty five minutes a game for him, or you don't

1610
01:13:55,159 --> 01:13:58,279
think he's capable of having, like maintaining a type of

1611
01:13:58,279 --> 01:14:01,000
impact across that many minutes, that's when I might more

1612
01:14:01,039 --> 01:14:04,359
seriously consider, well, should we just go out and do

1613
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,239
something on the on the trademarket.

1614
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, my ears perked up at Cam Johnson instead of

1615
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:11,920
I love Wiggins too, but like that that feels like

1616
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,640
that would change things in a positive way for them.

1617
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: But it's like does it because like do you play

1618
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,600
Can you play Cam Johnson with the two bigs? I

1619
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,840
guess you can. I like his I like everyone's fit

1620
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,760
onto Okac. Probably that's the thing he's not giving you.

1621
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,640
If you're you've done now, decided you're investing, and it's

1622
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,880
not obliterating roster. But if you go after Cam Johnson,

1623
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:32,159
that's not a shot creation move.

1624
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:36,119
Speaker 2: That's no size and three point shooting. I think I

1625
01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:39,000
do think though that if you have you know, Wiggins

1626
01:14:39,079 --> 01:14:41,239
has had great three point shooting years and but like

1627
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:43,680
I think one of the things that I come back

1628
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:45,920
to a lot is like, man, the Thunder sure get

1629
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:47,920
a lot of wide open threes for Lou Dort and

1630
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,880
even though he's like a thirty nine percent shooter, I

1631
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,079
just never I feel like that's a defensive win if

1632
01:14:52,079 --> 01:14:54,359
you force the Thunder to have Dort take a shot.

1633
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,960
So like, if you have Cam Johnson out there, you

1634
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,159
treat him very differently as a defense and maybe that

1635
01:14:59,239 --> 01:15:01,159
opens things up what you really want to do, which

1636
01:15:01,159 --> 01:15:04,279
is get Shade downhill and get Jadob downhill. Because you can't,

1637
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,760
You're just gonna treat Cam Johnson differently as a defense

1638
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:11,000
than even Wiggins, for example, who's had some great drive.

1639
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,119
Just a good offensive player full stop. But yeah, I

1640
01:15:14,359 --> 01:15:16,880
don't know, And just i'd like the size I'd like

1641
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:18,359
I don't know why. I just I don't know. If

1642
01:15:18,359 --> 01:15:20,039
you're gonna have a guy out there just to shoot,

1643
01:15:20,079 --> 01:15:22,279
I'd prefer he'd be bigger than smaller.

1644
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, Isaiah Joe just because he's more of

1645
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,560
a motion shooter than an Aaron Wiggins or even a

1646
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,600
Cam Johnson. If he was like bigger and stronger, who

1647
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,439
is the what would be the like what's a bigger,

1648
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,640
stronger Isaiah Joe kind of.

1649
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 2: Like Michael Porter Jr. Like just just a big guy

1650
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,199
that's out there to just run around and shoot.

1651
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: He makes so much money. Now you're talking about or

1652
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,680
are we trading Wiggins and Joe and you like, no,

1653
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,520
what about would this be a Duncan Robinson team or

1654
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,439
is that not really doing He's like he's never kind

1655
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:52,000
of a stretch.

1656
01:15:52,359 --> 01:15:54,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's never gonna close for you. That's the thing

1657
01:15:54,359 --> 01:15:56,159
is like we're at such a high level right now,

1658
01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:59,479
we're looking for someone on the trade market, which is Barren,

1659
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:02,640
who could close for the best team in the league.

1660
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,119
Speaker 1: So I think they should stand pat for the most part.

1661
01:16:05,359 --> 01:16:08,399
Darren Wiggans thing is interesting, who would you who would

1662
01:16:08,399 --> 01:16:10,880
be your your coaching this team? What would be your

1663
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,279
go to for like fuck matchups for a second, what's

1664
01:16:13,279 --> 01:16:14,520
your go to closing lineup?

1665
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:20,159
Speaker 2: I think I have Sga, Jada, Hartenstein and Chet and

1666
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:23,920
ideally I would want Caruso over which is over Dort.

1667
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,359
And it's weird because I'm like making a defensive decision

1668
01:16:26,359 --> 01:16:30,079
and I'm passing over Lou Dort. I just think I

1669
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:32,479
think Caruso unless you have a really big wing on

1670
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:34,880
the other side, I just Caruso just causes so much

1671
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,680
trouble and if he can make shots, I just I

1672
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:38,760
would and he's a better decision maker than Dort. He's

1673
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:40,039
just a better all around player.

1674
01:16:40,079 --> 01:16:44,239
Speaker 1: Probably I would close with both Dort and Cruso over

1675
01:16:44,279 --> 01:16:46,600
the duel Biggs for the most part, And but if

1676
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,079
it came down to Cruso or Dort, I do think

1677
01:16:49,119 --> 01:16:52,119
I'm picking Dort, not only because of the bigger wing defense,

1678
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,600
but there is value even if you don't trust Dort

1679
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:58,000
as a shooter, there's value in the volume and that

1680
01:16:58,079 --> 01:17:01,319
dude gets them up, and I think he still doesn't

1681
01:17:01,359 --> 01:17:03,359
receive enough credit for like how long did it takes

1682
01:17:03,399 --> 01:17:07,000
Shay to get up three pointers? Like but till this year? Yeah, basically,

1683
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:10,079
And Caruso is still far too passive in that regard.

1684
01:17:10,079 --> 01:17:12,880
I'd be interested in, like could caseon Wallace like a

1685
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,039
case and Wallace. And that's why I like the one

1686
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:17,960
big look more because it allows you to get just

1687
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,520
a little bit more funky on the perimeter with who

1688
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:20,920
you play.

1689
01:17:21,239 --> 01:17:24,119
Speaker 2: I just like Hartenstein so much, just I love any

1690
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,800
like the The rebounding is gonna be a problem unless

1691
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,239
he's playing, And I would hate to get through a

1692
01:17:29,279 --> 01:17:31,560
playoff run where the Thunder get eliminated because they couldn't

1693
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,039
rebound and it's because they didn't play Hardenstein enough. That's

1694
01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:35,680
hard to imagine we get there, but I could, I

1695
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:36,199
could see it.

1696
01:17:36,279 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 1: I am a little upset that he hasn't dabbled in

1697
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,159
three point shooting. Yeah, I thought maybe they'd have him

1698
01:17:41,159 --> 01:17:42,760
space out to the corners a little bit, but hey,

1699
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:46,039
he's averaging half attempts per game in December, so let's

1700
01:17:46,199 --> 01:17:49,159
let's hold out hope there. This next team is for you, Grant,

1701
01:17:49,399 --> 01:17:51,399
What up with the Orlando Magic. Do you want to?

1702
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,399
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of like, do we even need

1703
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:55,880
to pretend like we don't have the same thing here.

1704
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:59,079
It's just it's it's Houston East to some extent, it's

1705
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:01,720
just like, how how are you going to score enough

1706
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,880
to make this defense to honor this defense? Let's let's

1707
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,720
put it in those terms, like to make it worth

1708
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,119
it good you are defensively? How do you not dishonor

1709
01:18:10,199 --> 01:18:14,279
the defense by scoring enough twenty fifth in offensive rating?

1710
01:18:14,399 --> 01:18:17,159
They turn it over a lot. That's been the case

1711
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:19,600
for like the last four plus years. Not not necessarily

1712
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,600
the twenty fifth rank, although they've been bad. The turnover

1713
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,079
thing is strange. So just like, for some perspective, with

1714
01:18:26,279 --> 01:18:29,760
Fronz on the floor, sixty first percentile offensive rating like

1715
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:31,279
that would honor the defense.

1716
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,359
Speaker 1: That's that's good enough. We have we have the same

1717
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:35,399
note do it?

1718
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:37,239
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see how many more we have? Do you

1719
01:18:37,279 --> 01:18:39,439
want to guess what the next percentile ranking I'm going

1720
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:39,880
to give.

1721
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:47,319
Speaker 1: Is what they were with Franz and Paolo last year? Right?

1722
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Actually, wait, so they're seventy second with Fronz and

1723
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:56,199
Polo this year, even though the vanishingly small sample, but

1724
01:18:56,239 --> 01:18:58,399
they were in the twenty six percentile last year with

1725
01:18:58,399 --> 01:19:00,600
Fronz and Polo on the floor together. Should we just

1726
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,920
stop and just like think thoughts to each other instead

1727
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:05,199
of looking.

1728
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: Into we'll subscribers like will they at this point? Like

1729
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,199
were they thinking? Did they know what was coming? Let

1730
01:19:10,279 --> 01:19:11,079
us know in the comments?

1731
01:19:11,119 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 2: Or are discordy?

1732
01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:13,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see.

1733
01:19:13,239 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 2: Uh uh, that's those are all the stats I have.

1734
01:19:16,199 --> 01:19:18,039
Did you have more stats? You usually do have more

1735
01:19:18,079 --> 01:19:18,680
stats than me.

1736
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,399
Speaker 1: I did dig a little bit further so with when

1737
01:19:22,399 --> 01:19:26,119
you look last year with Franz and no Palo, they

1738
01:19:26,119 --> 01:19:28,880
were the ninety fourth percentile of offense and ninetieth in

1739
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:33,279
half court. When Polo played without Franz last year sixty

1740
01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:36,439
first overall and then forty ninth in the half court.

1741
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,680
They were twenty seventh in the half court with both

1742
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:43,079
Palo and Franz. And what my question would be for

1743
01:19:43,159 --> 01:19:47,760
them is it's this along the same lines, but are

1744
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,199
you gonna be healthy enough for the offense to honor

1745
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,279
the defense because we like the timeline for Franz is

1746
01:19:54,319 --> 01:19:57,079
just unknown. Polo has missed so much time this year

1747
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,800
and now Mo Wagner's out for the season and he's

1748
01:20:00,119 --> 01:20:01,680
important to some of their like what he can do

1749
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,760
is a big not in like heavy minutes and volume,

1750
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,880
but holy shit, he was a.

1751
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 2: Good offensive player for them, which they don't have a

1752
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:08,119
lot of.

1753
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: And I mean his usage versus true shooting for a

1754
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,319
big is ridiculous. Like I know he wasn't doing super

1755
01:20:13,319 --> 01:20:16,720
complex stuff, but still, And so that leads me into

1756
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,359
there are two like different ways I'm looking at this.

1757
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,520
If you think that you're gonna have both of your

1758
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,119
both Palo and Franz when it matters most, like they're

1759
01:20:25,359 --> 01:20:28,079
the Frond specifically is gonna be healthy in time, I

1760
01:20:28,079 --> 01:20:30,399
feel like you're almost obligated to them. Well let's look

1761
01:20:30,399 --> 01:20:33,520
on the trade market for more shooting. But I also

1762
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,840
wonder so the Polow without Franz stuff, because the Magic

1763
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,800
are finally playing faster this year. Part of that has been, well,

1764
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,000
when you don't have Fronz or Pollow, like, you need

1765
01:20:43,039 --> 01:20:44,960
to paper over the lack of skill by playing faster.

1766
01:20:45,239 --> 01:20:47,560
But they've always kind of done a better job upping

1767
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,880
their transition stuff when it's just Franz. I think Polo

1768
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:54,000
inherently does slow things down. I don't think it needs

1769
01:20:54,039 --> 01:20:56,239
to be that way for this team, and so just

1770
01:20:56,279 --> 01:20:57,840
so we're not kind of repeating the same thing as

1771
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,920
my actual question would be, can they continue to kind

1772
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,800
of kick it up a gear, like increase the urgency

1773
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,239
which with which they operate, And I would say specifically

1774
01:21:06,319 --> 01:21:09,199
after live rebounds, because Palo is not the type of

1775
01:21:09,239 --> 01:21:10,800
guy where it's a right if you're gonna inbound the ball,

1776
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:12,239
like I don't expect him to get up that way

1777
01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:15,359
on a dead ball, but I think that there could

1778
01:21:15,399 --> 01:21:17,479
be value. And if you're not gonna change the personnel,

1779
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,840
which is probably fair given the like the number and

1780
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:22,760
the scope of injuries you're dealing with right now, if

1781
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,239
you're not gonna go out and get an Anthony Simons

1782
01:21:25,319 --> 01:21:28,920
or or whoever, can you continue to play faster during

1783
01:21:29,039 --> 01:21:30,920
not just the Pollo and no Fronz minutes, but the

1784
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,439
Pollow and Franz minutes. And I think that might be

1785
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,399
the best way to aside from growth from both of them, which,

1786
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:38,640
by the way, Paalo, I know a lot of people

1787
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:42,039
harp on his efficiency. He was annihilatory in the playoffs

1788
01:21:42,119 --> 01:21:43,920
last year, Like that was if you had any doubts

1789
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,159
about Poalo, that should have been even though they lost,

1790
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,560
that was the series that, Oh okay, and so I'm

1791
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,279
just it's the same thing. But I'm just wondering, can

1792
01:21:52,319 --> 01:21:54,800
they also continue to play at a faster clip when

1793
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,199
they have a Palo on the floor, whether it's with

1794
01:21:57,319 --> 01:21:58,039
or without Franz.

1795
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:00,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think that'd be an e solve, like,

1796
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:04,600
especially since half the time the guy getting the defensive

1797
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:06,720
rebound is gonna be one of your big forwards who's

1798
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,600
gonna be able to push the ball up. So yeah,

1799
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:12,600
I'm with that. I'm I'm just surprised to say that,

1800
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,520
based on the numbers you cided from last year that

1801
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,800
they need to trade one of Fran's apollo because clearly

1802
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,800
they're better with just one on the floor than both.

1803
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,920
Well you're gonna go that way, Yeah, that's clearly what

1804
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:25,279
this is. Clearly against second units because that's the only

1805
01:22:25,319 --> 01:22:27,000
time you have one or the other off the floor.

1806
01:22:27,359 --> 01:22:30,119
Speaker 1: Would you if you're this team, though, how are you

1807
01:22:30,159 --> 01:22:32,960
approaching It's not just the trade DeLine but the rest

1808
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:34,920
of this seaar Like, if there's an opportunity to go out,

1809
01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:37,800
I'm just gonna use Anthony Simons as an example that

1810
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,800
type of player who's gonna improve probably some of your

1811
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,720
on ball facilitation and like playmaking options, but just in

1812
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:47,920
general your offense to open it up more like or

1813
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:49,880
is it just are you're not doing I mean the magic.

1814
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:51,960
Let's be honest, they're not doing it regardless of like

1815
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:53,680
everyone could be healthy and they're not gonna do it.

1816
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,720
But when you're looking at okay, like the injuries that

1817
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,800
they've just withstood, is it kind of just no, we're

1818
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:00,520
not going to do this.

1819
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 2: I think it might. The reason might be that, like

1820
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:09,159
Simons isn't good enough to make the kind of difference

1821
01:23:09,199 --> 01:23:11,680
I would want on a team that now, after some

1822
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,479
of the things that have developed this year, that they

1823
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,920
should be looking at like because the defense is elite,

1824
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,039
that's just gonna be what it is. I just and

1825
01:23:20,079 --> 01:23:21,680
you can peel off some of that to get a

1826
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,279
guy like Simons if you want to. But I think

1827
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,039
the sort of validation that this defense is going to

1828
01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:30,840
be great, paired with how good Paalo looked in his

1829
01:23:31,359 --> 01:23:35,239
tiny season opening stretch, paired with how good Frands looked,

1830
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:39,000
it's now like, oh, we need like a third best

1831
01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:42,119
guy on a finals team, like and that Simons. Like

1832
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:44,159
I'm not saying Suggs is great. We all love Suggs,

1833
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:48,560
But I think like Orlando has enough stuff going for

1834
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,920
it to where you like you need to aim higher

1835
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:54,920
than Simons. I think like Simons makes sense, he addresses

1836
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,319
the issue. But I think this team is good enough

1837
01:23:58,359 --> 01:24:01,800
and young enough and has enough like profile aspects that

1838
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,039
I like to where you need to keep the powder

1839
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:08,279
drive for someone like for a Fox for example, like

1840
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:10,600
you need like an All NBA or like high All

1841
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:11,119
star guy.

1842
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:13,600
Speaker 1: So we want them to get shooting, and we're picking.

1843
01:24:14,039 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna run the off, Like I get, I

1844
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,520
don't care if it's shooting, get me a really good

1845
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:19,439
I'm actually.

1846
01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:21,199
Speaker 1: Higher on his shooting than most. The percentages aren't there,

1847
01:24:21,239 --> 01:24:22,359
but like he can get to the step back.

1848
01:24:22,359 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: I was just being yeah, yeah, no, right, that is

1849
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:26,520
a fair point, though, Like the cheap way to do

1850
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,039
it is just get a guy who's gonna make forty

1851
01:24:28,039 --> 01:24:29,640
percent of his threes on decent y.

1852
01:24:30,119 --> 01:24:32,359
Speaker 1: I guess because this season if look, if the Aaron

1853
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:34,680
Fox becomes available, I think you have to as the

1854
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,199
magine or same thing with LaMelo Ball is maybe the

1855
01:24:37,239 --> 01:24:40,399
best idea. Then like you split the baby, which that's

1856
01:24:40,399 --> 01:24:42,560
by the way, that's a horrible saying and I've said

1857
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,640
it in two consecutive podcasts. Who came up with that?

1858
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,239
Speaker 2: But that we can credit that one to the Bible?

1859
01:24:47,279 --> 01:24:49,880
Thanks Bible, I'm using them.

1860
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:52,039
Speaker 1: Look at me spitting Bible versus out here. I didn't

1861
01:24:52,039 --> 01:24:54,319
even know it, but you kind of split the difference

1862
01:24:54,359 --> 01:24:56,199
here and say, like, here's a trade that I would

1863
01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:58,960
find fascinating. I don't know if the money lines up perfectly,

1864
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,279
but the framework is there. And Isaac for Kevin Herder,

1865
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,960
I like Isaac too much. Kevin Herder can play more

1866
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:07,840
than ten minutes a game.

1867
01:25:08,079 --> 01:25:10,119
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, that's and right. I just said you

1868
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:11,800
can peel off some of the defense. You're peeling off

1869
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:14,359
a lot of the defense. If you in short stints,

1870
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:15,199
I think.

1871
01:25:15,039 --> 01:25:18,039
Speaker 1: You would still be fine because treveling Queen exists, by

1872
01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:20,800
the way, Like you're just your set. But my whole

1873
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,319
thing would be that's you're not giving up any first

1874
01:25:23,399 --> 01:25:26,960
round equity and you are improving the offense. And I

1875
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,560
guess if you're if you're arguing, the defense will be torpedoed.

1876
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,439
Like if you don't think about what they have in place,

1877
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:33,600
I mean, fronds will eventually come back. So I think

1878
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,039
they have enough there with Sugs and KCP and Anthony

1879
01:25:36,039 --> 01:25:39,399
Black and even go Goo batadse I would you wouldn't

1880
01:25:39,399 --> 01:25:41,000
consider it though, Yeah, that's just a hard no for you.

1881
01:25:41,239 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about it. I was just as I

1882
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:46,119
was doubling back on It's like for what you need

1883
01:25:46,159 --> 01:25:48,640
from the role, Like how much worse is Kevin Heurder

1884
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,159
than Simons? We'd both say Simons is a better offensive player,

1885
01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:54,680
but you're talking about someone that you're not gonna make him.

1886
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 1: An uptring to come with someone who's gonna run the offense.

1887
01:25:57,079 --> 01:26:00,439
That's not Simon's strength and so get someone who uhs

1888
01:26:01,239 --> 01:26:03,319
the more of the time is off ball stuff.

1889
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love Isaac on the Kings, by the way,

1890
01:26:07,119 --> 01:26:08,880
Like that's that would be very.

1891
01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 1: By way we can find another Would that be with

1892
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:13,840
the contracts by the way that Orlando has, they can

1893
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,199
find another way to get Kevin Herder if they wanted to.

1894
01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:18,199
But is that would that if you're not giving up

1895
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:20,000
a first round pick? Is that the type of trade

1896
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,159
that you would consider making this season as this team?

1897
01:26:22,319 --> 01:26:23,760
Like it's not the home run trade?

1898
01:26:24,159 --> 01:26:27,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would consider it. I'm still I'm

1899
01:26:27,399 --> 01:26:29,079
in a place now though where I just I think

1900
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:32,960
Orlando's got to make one big move and then like

1901
01:26:33,279 --> 01:26:36,399
capital B big and and then I cause I just

1902
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,119
think I think with the two forwards and with Suggs

1903
01:26:39,159 --> 01:26:43,119
looking like a maybe Derek White minus some offense guy

1904
01:26:43,239 --> 01:26:45,600
like in the pipeline for a Derek White type career, like,

1905
01:26:46,399 --> 01:26:48,960
I think you got to get somebody that's really going

1906
01:26:49,039 --> 01:26:52,600
to move the needle because they're good enough to justify that.

1907
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,600
Does that make sense? Like I think the small time

1908
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,159
stuff isn't what I'm focused on.

1909
01:26:57,399 --> 01:26:59,319
Speaker 1: Which I think is fair, but like what if that?

1910
01:27:00,079 --> 01:27:01,600
The two things for me is what if the big

1911
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,800
time stuff isn't available? And then two, even if it is,

1912
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,439
is this the season to do it? When you don't?

1913
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:09,720
When you might not? I mean, you probably will have

1914
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,439
your two best players available for the playoffs hopefully, but

1915
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:13,119
what if you don't.

1916
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:15,359
Speaker 2: No, that's the thing. I'm talking about a player that

1917
01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:17,880
you're like, he's a cornerstone for the next four or

1918
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:20,159
five years. Like it's not. It's not. We keep using

1919
01:27:20,159 --> 01:27:22,039
this as an example, but it's like not Jimmy Butler.

1920
01:27:22,199 --> 01:27:24,960
Not the guy that's like probably gonna walk is you know,

1921
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,560
has a shelf life that's rapidly expiring like not that

1922
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:28,199
kind of Yeah.

1923
01:27:28,079 --> 01:27:30,199
Speaker 1: There's and there's no a Cidber Pharon Fox. There's no

1924
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,239
player who profiles as he might be a vail, like

1925
01:27:33,279 --> 01:27:35,640
we've mentioned Lamello Ball, but like he's not somebody who's

1926
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,680
considered avail, Like is there another player that might fit

1927
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:38,119
that bill?

1928
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 2: No, there will be a next wave though, like Fox

1929
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:43,000
is now like oh we weren't talking about him at all,

1930
01:27:43,159 --> 01:27:45,239
and now and now he's There will be another Fox

1931
01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:48,279
or another whatever, like it'll happen. But but yeah, I'm

1932
01:27:48,279 --> 01:27:50,399
talking about the player I'm talking about for them is

1933
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:51,159
not available.

1934
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:52,239
Speaker 1: Who we got next?

1935
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:56,239
Speaker 2: This is Philly? Uh do I lead a'll? Jeez? No

1936
01:27:56,279 --> 01:27:58,399
way did I go first because you you guessed all

1937
01:27:58,399 --> 01:27:59,119
my stats?

1938
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is me my thing with Philly the

1939
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:07,800
health stuff obviously, But I think the question is is

1940
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:11,920
the offense ever gonna be I've been actually very impressed

1941
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,159
with the defense, even you look at the injuries that

1942
01:28:14,199 --> 01:28:16,640
they've dealt with to start the year. But they're still

1943
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:20,000
bottom five in offense. They're twenty fourth in both rim

1944
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:23,479
and three point percentage. They are a plus six point

1945
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:25,960
nine with the Big three on the court. But even

1946
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,960
the Big three lineups are in the twenty first percentile

1947
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,840
of offense. When you start to kind of dig into,

1948
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:34,720
like splitting up the Big three, the numbers are all

1949
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:38,239
over the place. PG and MAXI with no EMBIID plus

1950
01:28:38,319 --> 01:28:41,920
five point seven eightieth in offense. When it's PG and

1951
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:45,960
EMBIID with no MAXI minus seventeen point two zero fifth

1952
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:50,600
percentile for offense, MAXI and EMBIID without Paul George plus

1953
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:53,960
one point one, they're about league average offense. I think

1954
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,720
the big thing with this team is so like and

1955
01:28:57,199 --> 01:29:01,479
this is just him As an example, Paul George shooting

1956
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,560
sub thirty percent grant on semi open and wide open threes,

1957
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,199
So any three where defenders at least four feet away

1958
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,720
that is not good. I assume that number is gonna

1959
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:13,039
come up. But you look at the rest of this

1960
01:29:13,119 --> 01:29:17,239
roster and I finally I find myself asking, especially given

1961
01:29:17,279 --> 01:29:21,319
the Jared McCain injury, now, is there enough shooting for

1962
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:24,239
them to consistently run a functional offense. So even if

1963
01:29:24,279 --> 01:29:26,279
you believe that Paul George overall is at like thirty

1964
01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:29,199
four percent, that should come up. Kelleybrady Junior at thirty

1965
01:29:29,239 --> 01:29:32,479
four percent, you can't guarantee me, that's gonna come up.

1966
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:34,880
Joelle b by the way, he's at forty percent for

1967
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,439
the year. That might go down. Gershon Yabicelli thirty one

1968
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:42,520
point seven percent. Honestly, that could go down. Eric Gordon

1969
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,239
all right doesn't play aton what does he playing like

1970
01:29:45,239 --> 01:29:46,840
three games in the past. Oh, this is only for

1971
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:48,880
the month of December. I'm looking at that With's why

1972
01:29:49,079 --> 01:29:52,000
My point being though, with this team, Grant, is there

1973
01:29:52,319 --> 01:29:55,880
enough shooting for them to consistently run a good offense?

1974
01:29:56,039 --> 01:29:58,920
And then if there's not, have you suddenly found yourself

1975
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:02,960
way too dependent on Tyreese Maxi going nuclear as he

1976
01:30:03,079 --> 01:30:03,439
has been.

1977
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a fair concern. I would. They're

1978
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:08,720
they're five and one over the last couple of weeks,

1979
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,560
and they're like eleventh in offense and thirteenth in defense,

1980
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:15,920
which is like, that's more. I tend to I tend

1981
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:17,800
to believe a little bit more in that, And I

1982
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:21,880
tend to be less persuaded by the like any of

1983
01:30:22,039 --> 01:30:24,359
any of the lineup combo numbers at this point, because

1984
01:30:24,399 --> 01:30:26,640
like I just I don't think we have I just

1985
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:29,640
don't have enough information there. The shooting is interesting, I

1986
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:31,359
think Paul George is gonna shoot it better, like he

1987
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,600
just has to. And I would say it's a concern

1988
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:38,600
because you know, we've said several in several instances during

1989
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:41,399
this pod, like you really don't want someone maybe just

1990
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,079
I say this all the time, you really just can't

1991
01:30:43,079 --> 01:30:45,600
have someone out there if you're talking about a contender

1992
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:48,800
that the defense can like beg you to have him shoot.

1993
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:52,720
And so like me saying, I think between George and

1994
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:55,039
Maxi and an offense that runs through Embiid in a

1995
01:30:55,039 --> 01:30:58,600
perfect world, like that's enough. But then you know, if

1996
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,439
if if Martin's gonna left, or if Ubre is gonna

1997
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:05,880
get left or or whatever Kyle Lowry like, then maybe

1998
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:07,960
that is an issue that's a high level issue. I

1999
01:31:08,079 --> 01:31:10,399
imagine the Sixers really hope they have to contend with

2000
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:12,920
that because it'll mean that they got enough out of

2001
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,760
their core three guys to get there. I just went

2002
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:17,680
with the hell thing. I wasn't gonna go past that.

2003
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:21,800
Like how is Embiid even capable of being like a consistent,

2004
01:31:22,119 --> 01:31:24,720
you know, all star level player for like the rest

2005
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:26,600
of the season in playoffs, Like he's had a couple

2006
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:28,600
of great games, but he just you can't watch the

2007
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:30,520
guy play and say he's the same player. It's just

2008
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,560
not it's not there. And I don't know if we're

2009
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:33,359
getting back to that.

2010
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:36,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that they're more I mean, are they

2011
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,199
more innocular? Like if the max if Maxie and Paul

2012
01:31:39,239 --> 01:31:40,840
George are going to win the minutes they're on the

2013
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:43,439
court without Joel Embiid, you're not gonna win a title

2014
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:46,520
without Joel e Biand but like, are you more inoculated

2015
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:49,600
against him not being top five player in the league

2016
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:50,520
Joel Embiid.

2017
01:31:50,239 --> 01:31:52,560
Speaker 2: Now, it's sure that might be. That for sure helps

2018
01:31:53,239 --> 01:31:56,600
Who did they play? They played somebody bad last night

2019
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,680
or the night before, and it was like not in

2020
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,159
doubt and he played thirty minutes and I was just like,

2021
01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:03,840
what are we doing? Like get the guy out at

2022
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:07,319
halftime if you have to. I just yeah, right, it

2023
01:32:07,359 --> 01:32:09,239
helps if those two can win their minutes, which like

2024
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:12,239
they could because you get enough supporting casts around them.

2025
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:14,720
That's that's a good one too. Again on most nights,

2026
01:32:15,079 --> 01:32:17,119
but you're you said the quiet part a loud. It's

2027
01:32:17,159 --> 01:32:19,520
like none of this matters. If Embiid isn't the best

2028
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,039
player throughout an entire playoff run, like that will have

2029
01:32:23,119 --> 01:32:25,880
to be what happens independent of anything else for them

2030
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:27,159
to actually contend.

2031
01:32:27,319 --> 01:32:29,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just to get the numbers right, even Max

2032
01:32:29,079 --> 01:32:31,039
he's below thirty five percent from three for the year,

2033
01:32:31,079 --> 01:32:33,079
that will come up, and it's all he's been a

2034
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:36,520
thermonuclear lately. Paul George thirty one point five percent for

2035
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,079
the year. That'll come up. Jared McCain thirty eight point

2036
01:32:39,119 --> 01:32:41,760
three percent. They're gonna miss that. Plus the volume that's

2037
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:45,680
at twenty eight what'd you say that's gonna stay the same. Yeah,

2038
01:32:46,279 --> 01:32:48,720
Ubre's at twenty eight point seven percent and thirty four

2039
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,159
percent in December. Embiid's been at thirty point two percent.

2040
01:32:52,199 --> 01:32:54,399
That should come up and it has come up in December.

2041
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:57,359
Gershon j Abouseli at thirty nine plus percent is already

2042
01:32:57,359 --> 01:32:59,880
starting to come down. I'm actually if I told you

2043
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,520
that Kayla Martin we was shooting thirty seven and a

2044
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,079
half percent from three for the season, that would surprise you, right.

2045
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 2: That would seem high to me.

2046
01:33:05,399 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no volume there really, but it's that's what

2047
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,199
he's shooting for the season. So is that Like I

2048
01:33:11,239 --> 01:33:12,680
know it's the health thing, but like, what does this

2049
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,279
team need at the trade deadline? Then when you're looking

2050
01:33:15,279 --> 01:33:16,920
at it, is it? I think we focused on like

2051
01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:19,239
a four or a combo wing for the most part,

2052
01:33:19,279 --> 01:33:22,119
who can get shots up. But is there any merit

2053
01:33:22,159 --> 01:33:24,439
to the thought of well, Paul George kind of isn't

2054
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:27,199
that on ball killer? Do you need now, especially with

2055
01:33:27,239 --> 01:33:29,439
Jared McCain out, Like, does it need to be a

2056
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:31,680
guard who's not Eric Gordon or Kyle Lowry?

2057
01:33:32,239 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean maybe that is it. If

2058
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:38,479
because we saw Maxi, I mean it got hurt, but

2059
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:42,119
like he he it can't just be Maxi right like that.

2060
01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:45,399
He he's great, awesome offensive player, but that's just too

2061
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:47,399
much for him. And if George is in that guy

2062
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,199
and embiad his dement, yeah, you might need another guy

2063
01:33:50,239 --> 01:33:51,000
to create shots.

2064
01:33:51,079 --> 01:33:53,079
Speaker 1: Like really, my guard with size I don't even know

2065
01:33:53,159 --> 01:33:55,880
who springs to mind necessarily there. Yeah, I don't think

2066
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:57,319
he actually really good for this team, but they're not

2067
01:33:57,319 --> 01:33:58,960
gonna dream. Norm Powello's probably gonna win.

2068
01:33:59,039 --> 01:34:02,640
Speaker 2: Most player gonna stay like Clarkson isn't good enough like that?

2069
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:05,159
Norm Powell is just like the best possible version of

2070
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:05,640
the what.

2071
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: About I assume he's gettable. We haven't heard these available

2072
01:34:09,119 --> 01:34:11,760
would have bogged down mcdonovich be long ones.

2073
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. I like that because he could run,

2074
01:34:14,039 --> 01:34:15,880
he could you could play him at the one with

2075
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:16,760
maxiof too.

2076
01:34:17,239 --> 01:34:19,399
Speaker 1: Or honestly, this might be one of the players who

2077
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:22,359
comes close to checking a creation is a strong word,

2078
01:34:22,359 --> 01:34:24,239
but just the way he's been playing DeAndre.

2079
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:27,359
Speaker 2: Hunter, oh yeah, right, yeah, I mean, if you could

2080
01:34:27,359 --> 01:34:29,920
get this version of DeAndre Hunter for the full run

2081
01:34:30,359 --> 01:34:33,399
like he's he's outplayed Paul George so far this year

2082
01:34:33,399 --> 01:34:36,039
by a lot like Paul George. We love Paul George

2083
01:34:36,039 --> 01:34:38,560
as a third guy. Imagine how much we love Paul George.

2084
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:42,119
Is the number four option? Amazing number five if McCain

2085
01:34:42,159 --> 01:34:45,079
comes back to Yeah, the ideal situation for Paul.

2086
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 1: George grant that wraps up our contenders that we have

2087
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:52,279
is not even outright, but those are the singular contenders

2088
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:54,600
we're gonna ask questions about. But we now have to

2089
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,520
get to the section of all the teams we left off.

2090
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:01,600
So no Lakers, no Phoenix On, no Golden State Warriors,

2091
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:05,640
no Sacramento Kings, and then that's pretty much like of

2092
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,079
the teams I think are the biggest exclusions. But there's

2093
01:35:08,119 --> 01:35:12,159
also whether you think it's the Hawks, the Pacers, the Spurs,

2094
01:35:13,039 --> 01:35:15,399
or the Clippers who've outperformed expectations and have yet to

2095
01:35:15,399 --> 01:35:18,680
get Kawhi Leonard back is there. I don't know how

2096
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:20,159
you want to tackle this. We're not going to get

2097
01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:22,119
into each individual team, but of the teams we mentioned,

2098
01:35:22,119 --> 01:35:25,079
I'll throw Miami in there as well, which team do

2099
01:35:25,079 --> 01:35:28,960
you think is the closest to entering the title contender fold?

2100
01:35:29,279 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 2: Well, here's what's weird is I was just sorting by

2101
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:35,399
just their differentials this year, and the team we've disrespected

2102
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:39,079
the most technically is the Clippers because they have the

2103
01:35:39,159 --> 01:35:41,640
highest net rating of any team we didn't put in

2104
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:44,119
the contender class, which kind of hilarious.

2105
01:35:44,159 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: Maybe have a top ten player coming back?

2106
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:49,119
Speaker 2: They and they're right, and they have the most obvious like, well,

2107
01:35:49,119 --> 01:35:51,680
how does this team get better? Which I'll just bring

2108
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,760
a finals MVP back. Probably that's, you know, gonna be

2109
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:59,239
their best player if he's healthy at all. So I

2110
01:35:59,359 --> 01:36:02,119
still so, I guess probably you should say the Clippers.

2111
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:08,159
I guess for me, that's not where my heart is though.

2112
01:36:08,720 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: Well, my question because the question with the Clippers is

2113
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,279
will Kauhi because they're not going to be a contender

2114
01:36:14,279 --> 01:36:16,720
without Kawhi. So what will Kawhi look like upon return?

2115
01:36:17,239 --> 01:36:20,560
And will he be on the court in the playoffs?

2116
01:36:21,159 --> 01:36:24,079
Speaker 2: Right? But I mean, but I'm just saying, like, of

2117
01:36:24,119 --> 01:36:28,479
the teams we're discussing, the Clippers have like oh like

2118
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:31,560
a oh that could happen pathway that doesn't involve making

2119
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:33,880
a huge trade. They're just gonna trade nothing for a

2120
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:37,760
really great player. However, what is actually more likely?

2121
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:41,600
Speaker 1: Though? I would argue that I'll use the Warriors or

2122
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,399
the Lakers as an example. I think he's more realistic

2123
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:46,920
that one of those teams make a big time acquisition

2124
01:36:47,039 --> 01:36:49,399
just based off the trackers are now saying Kawhi Leonard

2125
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:52,319
will be Kawhi Leonard one and then two available in

2126
01:36:52,319 --> 01:36:53,479
the playoffs for the Clippers.

2127
01:36:56,039 --> 01:36:58,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're probably You're probably right.

2128
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:00,279
Speaker 1: I have a half decade worth of evident and that

2129
01:37:00,279 --> 01:37:01,039
says I'm right.

2130
01:37:03,319 --> 01:37:07,199
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean, but then, like, are the Warriors

2131
01:37:07,239 --> 01:37:09,239
with say they do the Butler move, which I don't.

2132
01:37:09,359 --> 01:37:11,439
I'm I'm back to that. I don't think they should

2133
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:13,680
do that? Are they?

2134
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,000
Speaker 1: Are they better on the Warriors this seasons?

2135
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:20,039
Speaker 2: You should have seen the after the second kaminga thirty pointer.

2136
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:22,159
I was like, I think asked time for Steph to

2137
01:37:22,199 --> 01:37:26,039
be a number two because I'm just really reorient this offense.

2138
01:37:26,079 --> 01:37:29,840
It's it's clear as day. Uh, and then like check

2139
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:31,880
in tomorrow and I'll just be all the way back out.

2140
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,000
I can't. I can't be trusted.

2141
01:37:36,319 --> 01:37:36,720
Speaker 1: I don't.

2142
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 2: I want to say the Lakers, but like they have

2143
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:43,439
a negative point differential, they've been super lucky relative to

2144
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:46,520
like what you know, what their underlying metrics say, and

2145
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:49,640
then Davis and Lebrono missed time. So we just can't.

2146
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:51,399
And I'm not going to say the Warriors because I

2147
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:54,520
just established I can't. My opinion can't be valued on them.

2148
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,479
Who's is there an obvious one? They haven't said Phoenix yet.

2149
01:37:58,039 --> 01:38:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for a good reason. They suck. They're like, man,

2150
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,600
they get nothing out of the center position. Right now,

2151
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:08,000
you dig it. I was digging in because we considered

2152
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,359
putting them as like a team that we just covered.

2153
01:38:10,399 --> 01:38:12,640
But we were talking beforehand and I said, if we're

2154
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:14,680
not including the Lakers of the Warriors, the Sons have

2155
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:18,439
no business being on here. You look at their numbers,

2156
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:20,479
like so with the big three on the court, there

2157
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:23,600
minus one point six with an offense and the fifty

2158
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:27,439
six percent tile Booker and Beal without Durant minus eighteen

2159
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:30,520
point four is their net rating thirty seven percent tile

2160
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:35,039
of offense bal and Durant without Booker minus sixteen point nine.

2161
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,560
In the tenth percent tile of offense, now the Booker

2162
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,319
and Durant no Bial minutes ninety six percent tile of offense

2163
01:38:41,319 --> 01:38:44,239
plus six point nine. Overall, here's the other I don't

2164
01:38:44,319 --> 01:38:46,159
I actually don't lay everything at the feet of Beal.

2165
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:47,960
I want to be clear. A lot of it I

2166
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:49,680
think has to just do with the center position. The

2167
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:51,840
Big Three is a plus sixteen point seven per one

2168
01:38:51,960 --> 01:38:54,680
hundred when Nurk is not on the court, and so

2169
01:38:55,239 --> 01:38:57,760
there's just too many moving parts here to where oh

2170
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:00,119
it's cool to see, oh Sabigadaro and Ryan Dunn in

2171
01:39:00,159 --> 01:39:02,479
some things, and then Royce Andill before getting injury has

2172
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,479
been really good. And if Grayson Allen's healthy, could he

2173
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:07,600
be really good. There's just they might not have any

2174
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:09,319
made like you could say, oh, they just need like

2175
01:39:09,399 --> 01:39:11,399
kind of an like anything out of the center position.

2176
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:14,159
They'll be fine. But the pathway to them making even

2177
01:39:14,199 --> 01:39:17,720
incremental improvement is just so difficult. I don't think I

2178
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,600
would pick them, like, is that the team? Because the

2179
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:23,279
two teams I'm leaning towards, and I'm just excluding the

2180
01:39:23,279 --> 01:39:27,640
Clippers because they have the easiest question. I'm probably looking

2181
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,000
at the Spurs or the Kings because I'm sitting here

2182
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:32,640
with the Kings and if they just like went all in,

2183
01:39:33,119 --> 01:39:35,199
like if you put Jimmy Butler on this team instead

2184
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:37,880
of demart Rows and Kevin Hurder and picks, I think, like,

2185
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:39,479
I don't know why they haven't been linked in. Maybe

2186
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:41,359
he doesn't want to go there. Yeah, I think I

2187
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:44,239
might just settle on the Spurs because they feel like

2188
01:39:44,319 --> 01:39:47,439
if de Aaron Fox is available, that's the team for me,

2189
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:50,039
like even more so than Houston because they don't have

2190
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:53,279
a long term option at his spot. You could trade

2191
01:39:53,319 --> 01:39:55,960
guys in terms of salary that don't really matter, and

2192
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,439
then you're trading picks, maybe the prospect going out of

2193
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,960
Jeremy Sohan and that's something would haggle over. But just

2194
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,520
because you have Wemby who by the way, I don't

2195
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:06,520
think it's been paid, Like he might just finish in

2196
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,560
the top five of MVP voting and that's a real

2197
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:10,800
thing that could happen. So I think it's one of

2198
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:13,800
those two teams. For me, I don't feel great about

2199
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:16,680
any of these teams. The standing say it should be

2200
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,600
the Lakers. The point differential in the makeup of that

2201
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,439
team though, just they've now decided that Austin Reeves and

2202
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:24,479
Lebron James are just gonna do all like in the offense,

2203
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:27,359
will be fine with them doing all the I don't,

2204
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:29,359
I don't. I don't have a great answer here, I

2205
01:40:29,399 --> 01:40:30,760
guess is me stumbling through that.

2206
01:40:31,039 --> 01:40:33,920
Speaker 2: I think if you you've kind of framed it for

2207
01:40:34,039 --> 01:40:36,359
me in a way that clarifies a little bit. If

2208
01:40:36,399 --> 01:40:40,680
you think that a prerequisite for contention I'm just making

2209
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,039
this argument up is to have like a top five guy,

2210
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:46,840
then then it should be the Spurs. If because Wemby,

2211
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:49,279
I think if you price in injury risks for the

2212
01:40:49,359 --> 01:40:51,760
Lakers guys, if you price in the same thing for

2213
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:56,479
like Katie Steph has slipped, like Haliburton hasn't gotten isn't

2214
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:59,159
gonna get back to that. Kawhi is the other one

2215
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:01,399
that could can he play like one of the five

2216
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:04,039
best players in the league for a stretch like Yeah, So,

2217
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:06,319
I think if you're just really honing in on who

2218
01:41:06,359 --> 01:41:09,159
had and a top five guy is not available in

2219
01:41:09,199 --> 01:41:12,560
trade right now. Jimmy Butler's not that so, like, probably

2220
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:14,680
it should just be the Spurs and Clippers, and I

2221
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:18,199
feel like wildly uncomfortable about both of them.

2222
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:22,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Clippers are probably the answer, just because Kawhi

2223
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:25,119
will come back and there's a chance he might be Kawhi.

2224
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,960
And there's all the teams we mentioned, like every other

2225
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:30,760
team on this list. I think you already said this

2226
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:32,520
is predicated on like they have to make some type

2227
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:32,840
of move.

2228
01:41:33,039 --> 01:41:35,079
Speaker 2: I think so. I think so.

2229
01:41:35,079 --> 01:41:36,640
Speaker 1: So is there one from that group? Is it the

2230
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,640
Spurs that's the one that stands out from the other seven?

2231
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:42,600
Speaker 2: I's it's probably the Clippers. I think it's it and

2232
01:41:43,159 --> 01:41:46,039
independent of them, like dependent of them, like I guess

2233
01:41:46,079 --> 01:41:48,640
my gut, like my gut is, I don't want to

2234
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:50,920
pick the Spurs. But as I look around, I just think, well,

2235
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:53,720
if you had to bet on which player was going

2236
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:56,399
to be the most productive for the balance of this season,

2237
01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:59,399
I think Wemby might just be the pick over over

2238
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:03,399
Day over, kd over Steph, pricing in health, age, regress,

2239
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:05,479
all that stuff, Like, right, is that that's not crazy?

2240
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:05,840
Speaker 1: Is it?

2241
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:06,439
Speaker 2: No?

2242
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 1: That's not crazy? And yet I still find myself drawn

2243
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:09,920
to the Warriors as.

2244
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:11,720
Speaker 2: The amps going to let you do it. I'm not

2245
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:12,720
gonna say it.

2246
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:15,239
Speaker 1: I just feel like if they made the Jimmy, Like, so,

2247
01:42:16,199 --> 01:42:18,439
do do they feel like the team on this list

2248
01:42:19,119 --> 01:42:20,800
that if they made the trade it would go the

2249
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:24,159
longest way for them? Like if you here's a good

2250
01:42:24,199 --> 01:42:26,439
question and the Lakers already made a trade, we know

2251
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,399
you add Cam Johnson to the Lakers. Of the Warriors,

2252
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:32,119
who ends up being the more dangerous team?

2253
01:42:32,279 --> 01:42:37,000
Speaker 2: Hmmm, probably the Warriors. I think the Warriors are better

2254
01:42:37,039 --> 01:42:40,319
than the Lakers right now today. It's close, and I

2255
01:42:40,319 --> 01:42:42,720
think he would serve a similar purpose on both teams.

2256
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:45,479
I guess the fit might be better on the Lakers,

2257
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:47,920
but I think the Warriors are better and and he

2258
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:50,119
would just he would help them plenty, Like they shot

2259
01:42:50,159 --> 01:42:53,159
thirty percent against the Cavs last night. It's ridiculous.

2260
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:55,119
Speaker 1: Who do you think is more the team that would

2261
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:57,640
be most likely to make a bigger trade of this

2262
01:42:57,840 --> 01:42:58,439
entire list?

2263
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,239
Speaker 2: I think the Warriors, And I think this is a

2264
01:43:02,279 --> 01:43:04,520
real thing. I think they're less likely to do that

2265
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:07,319
now than they were a week ago because Kaminga had

2266
01:43:07,319 --> 01:43:09,800
two really good games and it's just like it's never

2267
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:11,760
gonna end, Dan, It's never gonna end.

2268
01:43:12,239 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm here's I'm not trying to be purposely inflammatory.

2269
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,880
Here fire everybody. Then if they're flying by the seat

2270
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:23,119
of their pants, where these few games or oh Kminga

2271
01:43:23,159 --> 01:43:25,920
closed the season, well we're just gonna ride with him.

2272
01:43:26,079 --> 01:43:28,000
But we don't trust him enough to extend him. But

2273
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:29,399
oh we're not gonna trade him. He just had two

2274
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:32,399
really good games, and I just go ahead.

2275
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:34,560
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, can I trot back out the argument

2276
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:38,760
I made all the time that I know bothered you bothered,

2277
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:44,720
but like I don't think Jimmy Butler makes the Warriors

2278
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:47,920
a contender. So if that's the case, if you now,

2279
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:50,720
if you disagree with that, then you absolutely should take

2280
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:53,399
I mean like he makes them better, he makes them

2281
01:43:54,039 --> 01:43:56,359
we would have put them in this group. But but

2282
01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:00,840
he's not. He's not the level of player and the

2283
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:03,680
age and the short term risk and stuff like I

2284
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:06,800
don't feel like he gets you where you want to be.

2285
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:11,640
And if there were oh not available, you're honest like

2286
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:15,760
like that, like can someone better than Steph like clearly like.

2287
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:18,520
Speaker 1: The my my my response to be then trade Steph.

2288
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:20,960
Maybe you don't think Jimmy Butler even gives you a

2289
01:44:21,159 --> 01:44:23,840
like makes you a legitle contender this sea because you're

2290
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:26,399
acquiring Jimmy Butler for this season and then probably next season,

2291
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:29,239
is just we're making this a two season window. Basically,

2292
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:31,840
I disagree, because I do think he makes them a contender.

2293
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:34,399
The thing that I've struggled to most with is if

2294
01:44:34,399 --> 01:44:37,399
you're going from Wiggins to him, the defense I'm not

2295
01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:39,760
worried about, but then like the plug and plain is

2296
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:41,840
on offense, I still think Jimmy Butler is good enough

2297
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:44,279
to figure it out. And the way that Steph plays

2298
01:44:44,279 --> 01:44:47,479
off everybody, you can go get someone as even if

2299
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:49,479
Jimmy Butler proves that he needs to be ball dominant.

2300
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:51,760
I just why don't you think he makes them a contender?

2301
01:44:52,119 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 2: I think it has it's it's fifty to fifty. It

2302
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:58,079
has some to do with him, but it all like equally.

2303
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:02,279
Steph and Draymond are both diminished like they are not

2304
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:05,800
like Steph. I think might make an All NBA team,

2305
01:45:06,279 --> 01:45:09,000
But I'm not like I really he just has he

2306
01:45:09,039 --> 01:45:11,079
has games where it's like the knees are clearly bothering him.

2307
01:45:11,079 --> 01:45:13,359
He's not he's gonna be like a bad player tonight,

2308
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:15,760
like he still has all this value as like defenses

2309
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:19,079
loser shit, like he's he's never gonna be like hurtful,

2310
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:22,119
but he's he is not the same guy offense, like

2311
01:45:22,159 --> 01:45:24,399
he is not the offense unto himself player. Some of

2312
01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:27,119
the some of the like lineup numbers would argue with

2313
01:45:27,199 --> 01:45:31,640
that Draymond is like just absolutely catastrophic offensively now, like

2314
01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:33,720
to the point where it outweighs the defense a lot

2315
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:37,520
of nights. So it's just like it's a it's not unforeseeable.

2316
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:42,239
But I think both of those guys being diminished because

2317
01:45:42,279 --> 01:45:45,479
of age, because of just health, wear and tear, makes

2318
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:48,560
it so like the level of player you need to

2319
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:52,000
put them into roles that they need to be in

2320
01:45:52,039 --> 01:45:55,199
on a great team now is higher than Jimmy Butler.

2321
01:45:55,199 --> 01:45:58,800
It's like certainly higher than Zach Lavine, brandon Ingram, Laurie Markinen,

2322
01:45:59,079 --> 01:46:01,600
like Paul Jorven, like all these guys that they've been

2323
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:05,720
linked to. However, tenuously I don't think are good enough.

2324
01:46:06,279 --> 01:46:11,319
So that like saying so saying like well, we're just

2325
01:46:11,319 --> 01:46:13,760
gonna invest in Kaminga, it feels insane because like he's

2326
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:16,000
probably gonna leave, and I wouldn't blame him if he

2327
01:46:16,039 --> 01:46:18,640
got a good offer and restricted free agency. But like,

2328
01:46:19,119 --> 01:46:22,520
if you do this for Butler, now you're consigning yourself

2329
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:25,239
to like some pretty brutal years after this, and I

2330
01:46:25,279 --> 01:46:27,720
really don't feel like ownership wants that. That's the other

2331
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:31,439
thing I think ownership likes KAMINGA. The coaching staff isn't

2332
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:35,520
sold and that's why we have this like vacillation. Not

2333
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:39,159
explaining my vacillation me, I'm just I'm too emotional about it.

2334
01:46:39,199 --> 01:46:42,079
But like, I think that's why the trigger hasn't been pulled.

2335
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:45,159
Is there are real factions on either side of the

2336
01:46:45,199 --> 01:46:47,399
kaminga issue within the organization.

2337
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 1: There I agree with almost everything you say, Like in

2338
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,479
the longer term stuff, I totally agree with you, But

2339
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:56,279
in the short term, I just don't know, Like Jimmy

2340
01:46:56,279 --> 01:47:01,359
Butler is still a top twenty guy, and like, when

2341
01:47:01,399 --> 01:47:04,760
you have Steph on this roster, I just I failed

2342
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:07,399
to see like you add Jimmy Butler to it without

2343
01:47:07,439 --> 01:47:11,239
giving up Steph and you could keep you could honestly,

2344
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:13,600
aside from Andrew Wiggins because you need a salary, you

2345
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:16,640
could probably circle any other player and figure out how

2346
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:19,079
to keep them while getting the deal done. Still, if

2347
01:47:19,119 --> 01:47:21,359
you're giving up enough pick equity, if you don't think

2348
01:47:21,399 --> 01:47:23,600
it's worth it because of the length of that window.

2349
01:47:24,039 --> 01:47:26,039
I just think there would be a window when you

2350
01:47:26,079 --> 01:47:27,960
look at how we know this team is capable of

2351
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:32,479
defending at its peak, and if you who's more likely

2352
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,359
to lead a really good offense right now? Jonathan Camaker

2353
01:47:35,399 --> 01:47:36,159
A Jimmy Butler.

2354
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:41,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's Butler. I think that's right. I still am.

2355
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:45,960
I'm just not persuaded that you know, part of it

2356
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,880
is Boston and the thunder are so good. It's just

2357
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:51,319
like I can't and you watch like Cleveland just boat

2358
01:47:51,359 --> 01:47:53,560
race the Warriors last night, so that's fresh in mind too.

2359
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:57,920
Like you, what you don't realize watching your favorite team

2360
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:01,359
all the time without seeing like what a great team

2361
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:04,279
today looks like. Is that like there's a difference like

2362
01:48:04,359 --> 01:48:07,560
in the athleticism of these teams that we're talking about

2363
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:11,760
as like Tier one contenders, the athleticism, the depth, the

2364
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:15,199
just like they just move around the floor differently than

2365
01:48:15,359 --> 01:48:17,720
than your Warriors and Sons and Lakers and all these

2366
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:20,119
teams we're talking It's not just Golden State and so

2367
01:48:20,239 --> 01:48:24,239
that's made me think, like this team just isn't it's

2368
01:48:24,319 --> 01:48:26,960
it's more than Butler. It's like you got to regress

2369
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:29,920
everyone's age by seven years and then and then will

2370
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:31,800
look like you know what I mean, It's it's just

2371
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:35,000
very stark. Sometimes I don't understand the point then of

2372
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:38,439
like perpetually, because then the players you named are just

2373
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:40,079
maybe they've become available.

2374
01:48:40,119 --> 01:48:42,079
Speaker 1: Let's say Giannis is available, you can't get them.

2375
01:48:44,319 --> 01:48:46,039
Speaker 2: I think. I think the more we talk about it,

2376
01:48:46,079 --> 01:48:51,479
the more it seems to me like ownership specifically, and

2377
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:53,720
you hear rumblings about this a lot, like guys like

2378
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:56,000
Anthony Slater will like allude to it, and you know

2379
01:48:56,439 --> 01:49:00,880
that like ownership's belief in cominga is that like he

2380
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:04,720
can be that guy, like he can be the player

2381
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:08,920
around which we build the next great Warriors team. And man,

2382
01:49:09,039 --> 01:49:12,560
unless you just catch every thirtieth game from him, I

2383
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:14,359
don't see how you can believe that.

2384
01:49:14,439 --> 01:49:16,920
Speaker 1: I guess even his great like, have you ever seen

2385
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:19,479
the level of feel and or playmaking that would make

2386
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:22,279
you think he can be central to Okay, that would

2387
01:49:22,279 --> 01:49:25,359
be because it's then who would be the closest analog

2388
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:29,399
to a player that's had those same flaws or concerns

2389
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:32,319
that you then is that Anthony Davis who's been a

2390
01:49:32,319 --> 01:49:33,840
better playmaker than Jonathan Kaminga.

2391
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:39,720
Speaker 2: Still, I think I think that the guys that believe

2392
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:43,680
in Kaminga believe that what he really is is the

2393
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:46,479
guy you give the ball to every time and everything

2394
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,119
runs around him and it'll be maybe like it'll be

2395
01:49:49,159 --> 01:49:52,159
like an Edwards thing where he'll develop a passing eye

2396
01:49:52,279 --> 01:49:54,479
or like, because Edwards didn't have any kind of feel

2397
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:56,840
really like early on in the year four, he did.

2398
01:49:57,000 --> 01:49:59,800
He did. That's the thing is Kaminga has so defenders

2399
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,560
of and would say he hasn't been like the Warriors

2400
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:05,119
ask him to like cut and run hard and defend

2401
01:50:05,159 --> 01:50:07,399
and be a connective passer, and that's not what he's

2402
01:50:07,399 --> 01:50:09,920
supposed to be personally. I think there's a good case

2403
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:11,840
that that actually is what he should do, and he

2404
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,960
could be great at that. But I think there's a

2405
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:18,279
belief that he is gonna be in a number one

2406
01:50:18,359 --> 01:50:22,640
alpha guy and you see it sometimes you do see it.

2407
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,439
It's just way more often you see him not read

2408
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,159
the floor, like not make other guys better. It's just

2409
01:50:28,479 --> 01:50:30,880
if he's twenty two and you think he's been misused

2410
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,119
and that's why he hasn't developed that stuff great. I

2411
01:50:33,239 --> 01:50:35,399
just it's real hard for me to get on board

2412
01:50:35,399 --> 01:50:36,199
with that.

2413
01:50:36,199 --> 01:50:38,199
Speaker 1: That's really And that also comes back to a more

2414
01:50:39,119 --> 01:50:41,800
like mainframe problem with the Warriors, where they did this

2415
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:44,520
thing with Well, you're saying they're trying to develop coming

2416
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,159
in the way that you think he is best optimized.

2417
01:50:46,239 --> 01:50:48,960
Like remember the James Wiseman stuff where it's kind of, yeah,

2418
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:52,439
you drafted this guy who's not good at anything, like

2419
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:55,560
the tenants around which you build your offense, he's not

2420
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:58,439
good at them, and you never talored really your offense

2421
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:01,560
or his usage to put him in his comfort zone.

2422
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:03,640
And aren't they then kind of doing the same thing

2423
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:06,520
with Kaminga. But it's different because you think that Cominga

2424
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:08,279
is actually best suited in what they're trying to do.

2425
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:10,920
Speaker 2: I think people within the front office believe that. I

2426
01:51:10,920 --> 01:51:13,319
don't think the coaching staff thinks Kaminga should do that.

2427
01:51:13,399 --> 01:51:15,920
But that's that's what's happened in the last handful of games,

2428
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:17,439
is they've put the ball in his hands a lot,

2429
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:19,520
and like he's had a lot of great downhill stuff,

2430
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:22,079
has made some better decisions. The other problem is he

2431
01:51:22,159 --> 01:51:24,039
just plays harder and better when he gets a lot

2432
01:51:24,079 --> 01:51:26,079
of minutes, and that's not a great quality. Like you

2433
01:51:26,119 --> 01:51:30,319
want the guy to try hard no matter what. But like,

2434
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:32,600
the Warriors do not have a good track record of

2435
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:36,319
developing and implementing young players into their system. They've basically

2436
01:51:36,359 --> 01:51:40,760
failed every single time. So the real thing might be

2437
01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:44,680
it's time to recognize that like Steph and Draymond are

2438
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:47,199
not good enough to define a system anymore, and you

2439
01:51:47,239 --> 01:51:51,159
should just like figure out what your best players, even

2440
01:51:51,159 --> 01:51:53,479
if they're young, do well and have them do that.

2441
01:51:54,079 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, are the Warriors a title contender if

2442
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:59,239
in the trade for Jimmy Butler they send out Draymond

2443
01:51:59,239 --> 01:52:00,920
Green instead of Andrew Wiggins.

2444
01:52:01,239 --> 01:52:05,720
Speaker 2: That's such a fun that's such a like not blasphemous question, uh,

2445
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,600
because the thing that makes me hesitate about the Butler

2446
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:11,920
trade is like Wiggins is really good, and yes, you're

2447
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:14,640
better with Butler than him, but like you're giving up

2448
01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:20,560
something significant if you're giving up Wiggins. Draymond still matters

2449
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:22,479
a ton. We talked about this a little bit, I think,

2450
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:26,640
but like I just still I just he's been so

2451
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:30,000
bad offensively, Dan, Like he's just the turnovers that it's

2452
01:52:30,039 --> 01:52:33,640
just been really brutal. Good thing. We'll never have to

2453
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:35,680
worry about that because they're just not going to trade him.

2454
01:52:36,199 --> 01:52:37,600
They don't have to answer.

2455
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:41,319
Speaker 1: The answer here is it's the Clippers, I think because

2456
01:52:41,319 --> 01:52:44,119
they have the most defined path to title contention. I

2457
01:52:44,119 --> 01:52:45,840
would say after that, you have talked to me. Out

2458
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:49,039
of the Warriors is the answer to Spurs then, because

2459
01:52:49,119 --> 01:52:52,279
of all the teams, it's the It's the easiest for

2460
01:52:52,319 --> 01:52:54,560
them to justify making a big move because it's not

2461
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:56,720
just about this season, and they're not already kind of

2462
01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:00,279
asset depleted, like it might just be them. I there

2463
01:53:00,359 --> 01:53:03,079
might be ak. I still think the Kings made I'm

2464
01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:04,279
too high on the Kings apparently.

2465
01:53:04,359 --> 01:53:05,680
Speaker 2: I mean it's a little broken lately.

2466
01:53:06,039 --> 01:53:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, like they are like the

2467
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:11,760
whole Mike Brown stuff. So but like I'm staring at

2468
01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:14,720
the Lakers here, I do is it is it weird

2469
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:16,399
that I trust the Lakers more than the Suns in

2470
01:53:16,399 --> 01:53:17,079
this discussion?

2471
01:53:17,359 --> 01:53:19,840
Speaker 2: No, because I agree with you. It's just a health

2472
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:22,079
thing for them, Like we we've established, if the Suns

2473
01:53:22,119 --> 01:53:24,840
are all healthy, then it's still not not great. But

2474
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:26,880
if you can have a D and Lebron and Reeves.

2475
01:53:27,079 --> 01:53:28,800
I like what they're doing with Reeves now, and they

2476
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:31,119
go make a trade then like if they've already made one,

2477
01:53:31,159 --> 01:53:32,800
they may they go make another one of that size

2478
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:37,079
or better. Like you can see it spurs, so spurs

2479
01:53:37,159 --> 01:53:37,920
Quippers and Lakers.

2480
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:40,039
Speaker 1: Then that's what we're kind of setting do it. The

2481
01:53:40,079 --> 01:53:43,600
Sacramento Kings have made us a Sacramento Kings adjacent podcast

2482
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:46,960
of Late Grant. They fired Mike Brown and they didn't

2483
01:53:47,039 --> 01:53:50,560
ruin a podcast we recorded, but they were annoying enough

2484
01:53:50,600 --> 01:53:53,560
to do it, like sixty minutes after we finished recording. Yeah,

2485
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:55,920
what are just your thoughts on the state of the Kings.

2486
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:58,800
We know now that Doug Christy interim head coach. We've

2487
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:01,760
had the comments from dearon Fox everybody else since then.

2488
01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:04,199
How are you feeling about the Kings? The decision is

2489
01:54:04,239 --> 01:54:07,159
to fire Mike Brown, their direction, like, just where are

2490
01:54:07,199 --> 01:54:08,399
you at with this whole situation?

2491
01:54:09,119 --> 01:54:14,479
Speaker 2: I think, I think, I'm I still feel like there

2492
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:17,439
isn't We haven't gotten what you would call like a

2493
01:54:17,479 --> 01:54:21,239
sufficient explanation yet. In situations like this, usually it would

2494
01:54:21,279 --> 01:54:23,840
have come out by now, and there have been plenty.

2495
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:26,119
There's been plenty written but it just usually it would

2496
01:54:26,159 --> 01:54:29,760
be fairly clear that and not. And this didn't happen

2497
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:33,239
that deeron Fox and his representation said, like, you know,

2498
01:54:33,279 --> 01:54:36,119
as a condition of me considering staying here on my

2499
01:54:36,199 --> 01:54:38,560
next deal, you got to get a new coach, like

2500
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,520
I mean, And this didn't specifically happen in Cleveland, for example,

2501
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:43,479
but it did seem like that Core was kind of

2502
01:54:43,479 --> 01:54:46,479
out on Bickerstaff and moving on from him was just

2503
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:49,560
sort of like nobody was upset about that. It didn't

2504
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:53,680
seem like among the players there. So that hasn't We

2505
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:57,079
haven't gotten that report. We haven't gotten that Brown lost

2506
01:54:57,119 --> 01:54:59,600
the locker room. So all that's kind of implied and

2507
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:01,520
like see priced in And so where that leaves me

2508
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:04,239
is that it was like a capricious decision by an owner,

2509
01:55:04,439 --> 01:55:06,439
an owner that has made a lot of those right

2510
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:09,520
like that that feels like the cleanest explanation, But we

2511
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:13,239
haven't gotten like really explicit reporting. I know Ramona Shelbourne

2512
01:55:13,279 --> 01:55:17,159
had some recently about you know, it was decided at

2513
01:55:17,199 --> 01:55:20,520
the top, I think, but we haven't gotten anything that

2514
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:23,239
satisfies me, like even though I do think, you know,

2515
01:55:23,319 --> 01:55:26,760
it just was vivek round a Dyve, you know, getting

2516
01:55:26,760 --> 01:55:28,840
his eighth coach in twelve years or whatever it is.

2517
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:30,840
I think it's a eight and thirteen or eight and

2518
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:32,880
twelve or something like that. Is that where you know,

2519
01:55:33,279 --> 01:55:34,560
to be honest, it does right.

2520
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:36,119
Speaker 1: There was a bit like the.

2521
01:55:36,119 --> 01:55:40,920
Speaker 2: Tyrone Corbin era, Like George Carl Tyrone Corbin, Dave Yeager,

2522
01:55:41,159 --> 01:55:43,039
we used to coach here. Does anybody remember that? It

2523
01:55:43,079 --> 01:55:46,319
wasn't that long ago? Is that how you feel though,

2524
01:55:46,359 --> 01:55:50,640
where it's like we haven't gotten like the smoking gun yet,

2525
01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:53,279
but it's like it just seems like the simplest explanation

2526
01:55:53,359 --> 01:55:55,479
his ownership made a hasty decision.

2527
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: Yet I think that's accurate. Basically the Shelburne piece, it

2528
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:02,640
was clearly there was a great there's a ton of

2529
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:05,560
great information. There was great reporting by Ramona, but it

2530
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:08,800
read like the front office and ownership trying to do

2531
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:12,600
damage controller get their side of the story across, and

2532
01:56:12,640 --> 01:56:16,000
it was so inept at doing so. Or I would

2533
01:56:16,039 --> 01:56:18,159
say it did so. But do you know what the

2534
01:56:18,159 --> 01:56:20,920
messaging was coming out of that piece that the organization

2535
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:23,960
basically was saying, we didn't really know what to do,

2536
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:25,159
so we fired Mike Brown.

2537
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of right, And and it also seemed like,

2538
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:30,439
I mean, well, not only did we not know what

2539
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:33,000
to do, we didn't want to do this, like you know,

2540
01:56:33,159 --> 01:56:35,520
like that that was the vibe that I got from

2541
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,640
like from players and to even like maybe McNair, like

2542
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:41,880
it wasn't the headline, like nobody wanted to fire Mike

2543
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:43,800
Brown or some some something like that.

2544
01:56:44,119 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 1: They also tried to use the extension talks as cover

2545
01:56:47,199 --> 01:56:48,920
for but like they were, they were on the fence

2546
01:56:49,079 --> 01:56:51,640
kind of about it before they signed him to a

2547
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:53,920
three year extension. That's like that just makes you look

2548
01:56:53,960 --> 01:56:56,359
fucking stupid because you sign him an extension anyway, and

2549
01:56:56,359 --> 01:56:59,239
then made the call less than halfway through the season,

2550
01:56:59,720 --> 01:57:02,439
I think, and de Aaron Fox, I know a lot

2551
01:57:02,479 --> 01:57:05,520
of people speculated before they're shelborne piece and then before

2552
01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:08,079
he came out and posted his you know, social media

2553
01:57:08,119 --> 01:57:11,640
rebuke that he was the reason Mike Brown got fired,

2554
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:13,479
and I'm just so over the There was a video

2555
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:15,920
of them talking at practice the day that Mike Brown

2556
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:17,920
got fired, So it was really dearon Fox that did it,

2557
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:20,439
and it's no and he's it's also probably not Mike

2558
01:57:20,439 --> 01:57:23,159
Brown telling dearon Fox to request a trade. And this

2559
01:57:23,199 --> 01:57:25,479
isn't an insult to Dearon Fox, who in any given

2560
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:28,880
season Kennan has made an All NBA team. That's not

2561
01:57:29,159 --> 01:57:31,159
a player who is good enough to get his head

2562
01:57:31,159 --> 01:57:31,760
coach fired.

2563
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:35,399
Speaker 2: Well, not on a normal team, but it is the Kings.

2564
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:38,560
What I would note, it's so like they you know,

2565
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:40,960
take what they can get in that regard. I I was,

2566
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:44,399
I don't know, small flex. I've talked to dearon Fox

2567
01:57:44,439 --> 01:57:46,880
a couple times, like over the years, and he he

2568
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:48,920
just doesn't seem like that guy like you know, and

2569
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:51,680
maybe that's you never know, like I can't like because

2570
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:53,760
I know him really well. No, Like I just I

2571
01:57:54,119 --> 01:57:57,359
do think it would really surprise me if it was

2572
01:57:57,399 --> 01:58:00,680
like a strong arm like him or me moved by

2573
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:03,800
him like that. Never, that never squared to me as

2574
01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:05,479
something that was like logical.

2575
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:08,880
Speaker 1: You also haven't had from Mike Brown's camp. The counter

2576
01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:11,840
oppoment Dear and Fox said, we never argued and I

2577
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:13,680
asked him to coach me hard. You never, we haven't

2578
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:16,960
heard anything counter to that. And so that, by the way,

2579
01:58:17,399 --> 01:58:20,720
the like, not that anyone necessarily gave Mike Brown endorsement,

2580
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:23,000
but the closest I saw to a player saying this

2581
01:58:23,119 --> 01:58:25,000
was the right cause, like Malik Monk saying like it

2582
01:58:25,079 --> 01:58:26,960
was time for a change. It's like Malik Munk. It's

2583
01:58:27,039 --> 01:58:30,800
just like out on Mike Brown. I look, I understand

2584
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:32,840
the impetus to make a change. This is the easiest

2585
01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:35,720
change to me, rather than investing more first round equity

2586
01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:39,520
and trades or whatever. And I don't think he coached

2587
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:43,159
this team perfectly. The key On Ellis stuff is beyond maddening.

2588
01:58:43,279 --> 01:58:45,399
And I won't pretend to have seen every King's game,

2589
01:58:45,720 --> 01:58:48,279
but there's the inconsistent usage of him, And like, why

2590
01:58:48,359 --> 01:58:50,960
is Malik Monk starting instead of ke On Ellis when

2591
01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:54,439
Keon Ellis is probably your best defend, like Kean Murray's

2592
01:58:54,439 --> 01:58:56,920
your best all around defender, But like ke On Ellis

2593
01:58:56,920 --> 01:58:59,079
could have make Kegan Murray's life a lot easier. But

2594
01:58:59,119 --> 01:59:01,199
I'm seeing a lot of people look at Keegan Murray's

2595
01:59:01,199 --> 01:59:04,760
struggles and kind of blame the approach that Mike Brown

2596
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:07,560
is taking to the offense. This is the conversation we

2597
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:10,880
had when we supported the Derosen movement a vacuum by saying,

2598
01:59:11,199 --> 01:59:13,359
just for the value, you probably do it, but what

2599
01:59:13,439 --> 01:59:16,079
did you think was gonna happen to Keegan Murray on

2600
01:59:16,119 --> 01:59:18,760
offense when you have Malik Monk, de Martro's and Darn

2601
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:21,399
Fox and Demontes Bonis in there. No, you didn't expect

2602
01:59:21,439 --> 01:59:24,439
him to shoot sub zero percent from three. But when

2603
01:59:24,479 --> 01:59:26,239
you look at his true usage stuff, which is just

2604
01:59:26,279 --> 01:59:28,880
basically a measure of everything he's doing on offense, it's

2605
01:59:29,039 --> 01:59:31,239
night and day compared to last year. And so you

2606
01:59:31,359 --> 01:59:35,800
marginalized probably the third most important player in the organization,

2607
01:59:35,880 --> 01:59:38,680
if not some people might make the argument for a second,

2608
01:59:39,039 --> 01:59:41,119
that's not on Mike Brown. That's a function of the

2609
01:59:41,239 --> 01:59:44,680
roster that this front off is put together. And when

2610
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:46,880
we got to talking about the Kings, you and I

2611
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:49,399
are actually a little bit more optimistic on could they

2612
01:59:49,399 --> 01:59:51,560
fix this than the consensus, believe it or not, just

2613
01:59:51,600 --> 01:59:55,119
based off things I've read and watched, listen to whatever.

2614
01:59:56,000 --> 02:00:00,000
But like they've needed the same things for multiple seasons

2615
02:00:00,199 --> 02:00:02,439
running now where you could say, oh, they also needed

2616
02:00:02,439 --> 02:00:03,840
a shot creator, and they went out and got that,

2617
02:00:04,239 --> 02:00:06,560
but you got a shock creader who doesn't elevate your defense,

2618
02:00:06,600 --> 02:00:10,039
doesn't elevate your spacing. And we're talking once again about

2619
02:00:10,039 --> 02:00:12,960
like they could really use a backup four or backup

2620
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:15,560
big and then like another combo wing this is year three?

2621
02:00:16,039 --> 02:00:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, of saying yeah, where do you think this leaves them?

2622
02:00:20,039 --> 02:00:23,600
Like is this is it? Because I don't think things

2623
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:27,720
will like Doug Christy, who knows, maybe they'll maybe he'll

2624
02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:30,840
get the bump of like, Okay, the assistant coach we

2625
02:00:30,880 --> 02:00:32,640
all like is in charge. Now we're going to play

2626
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,760
for him, Like maybe I just don't think he's gonna

2627
02:00:35,800 --> 02:00:40,199
be like a meaningful plus And so is a trade

2628
02:00:40,199 --> 02:00:42,920
coming now? Is are we going to see McNair go next?

2629
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:44,880
And then the Kings get back into that cycle that

2630
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:48,720
just torpedoed them for years of where you fire a coach,

2631
02:00:49,119 --> 02:00:51,800
you keep the executive, then you hire a new coach,

2632
02:00:51,840 --> 02:00:54,439
but you fire that executive and put a new executive

2633
02:00:54,439 --> 02:00:56,319
in that didn't hire this coach, and you just never

2634
02:00:56,359 --> 02:00:58,560
have them synced up. That was one of the beautiful parts.

2635
02:00:58,960 --> 02:01:00,840
It's just like what do you do? What is what's

2636
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:02,239
the next step for this team?

2637
02:01:03,359 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 1: It should be honestly, if we're honestly, if we're being honest, grant,

2638
02:01:08,119 --> 02:01:10,119
the actual blood take is dearon Fox is going to

2639
02:01:10,119 --> 02:01:11,920
get traded. I don't think it's gonna happen this season,

2640
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:14,199
but it's gonna happen over the offseason. That's where this

2641
02:01:14,239 --> 02:01:17,039
is now headed, because I think that they've continued to

2642
02:01:17,079 --> 02:01:20,439
make even if they're not the wrong moves in a vacuum,

2643
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:22,720
they haven't made the right moves. Yeah, and I know

2644
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:25,279
that Moni McNair's received a lot of praise for how

2645
02:01:25,279 --> 02:01:27,119
he's built this ross, so he deserves like the Kings

2646
02:01:27,159 --> 02:01:29,560
finding Keon Ellis and like giving the league Monk a

2647
02:01:29,600 --> 02:01:31,279
home and expanding his role from where he was with

2648
02:01:31,319 --> 02:01:33,800
the Lakers. The Sabonus trade has worked out well for

2649
02:01:33,840 --> 02:01:35,880
the Kings, just like so much of this is just

2650
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:37,680
kind of luck, like he has it none of his

2651
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:41,079
like his if the Domas was his biggest swing, and

2652
02:01:41,119 --> 02:01:43,840
I suppose that's worked out. But you're also at a

2653
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:46,159
point where it's, well, now your most important player might

2654
02:01:46,199 --> 02:01:47,600
not want to re sign with you, even though I

2655
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:49,000
still think a lot of that has to do with

2656
02:01:49,159 --> 02:01:52,319
just how the financials line up. Yeah, I don't know

2657
02:01:52,359 --> 02:01:54,520
what comes next. I assume this is gonna end poorly

2658
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:57,439
because it's the Kings. And Tom Ziller for Good Morning

2659
02:01:57,439 --> 02:02:00,239
against Basketball had a great piece like a breakdown of it,

2660
02:02:00,319 --> 02:02:02,520
and even he even said if this follows the typical

2661
02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:05,680
King's trajectory. Daron Fox isn't going to get moved over

2662
02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:07,840
the offseason. He's gonna get moved before the trade deadline

2663
02:02:07,880 --> 02:02:10,119
because he's going to have asked her out. And I

2664
02:02:10,119 --> 02:02:12,079
don't know if that was in it's that was speculation

2665
02:02:12,199 --> 02:02:15,159
on his part. Maybe it was informed speculation, but that

2666
02:02:15,239 --> 02:02:17,159
does seem like I would be a little bit surprised

2667
02:02:17,199 --> 02:02:19,000
if it happened before the trade dead line, although maybe

2668
02:02:19,039 --> 02:02:21,199
he'll ask her out. That just seems like where this

2669
02:02:21,239 --> 02:02:23,399
is headed, because the franchise doesn't seem like it has

2670
02:02:23,439 --> 02:02:27,199
a coherent vision in place, and very quickly a coaching

2671
02:02:27,319 --> 02:02:29,880
change mid season, at the end of the season whatever.

2672
02:02:30,439 --> 02:02:32,920
To me, it should only be made if you know

2673
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:36,880
or couldn't think that there's a better alternative out there

2674
02:02:36,960 --> 02:02:42,239
right now? What about Doug Christie's very short stint as

2675
02:02:42,239 --> 02:02:45,319
an assistant coach makes you think that this is the answer.

2676
02:02:45,439 --> 02:02:47,880
There are other veterans on this staff that could have

2677
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:50,399
gotten the ring. So what did they see in Doug

2678
02:02:50,479 --> 02:02:53,079
Christie that makes them think this was the right mover

2679
02:02:53,159 --> 02:02:54,960
or an upgrader that he can steward this team for

2680
02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:57,319
the rest of the year. And then who is is

2681
02:02:57,319 --> 02:03:00,800
it Doug, Like, who is the coach like you think

2682
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:03,680
is going to do better for this roster than Mike Brown.

2683
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is always the problem when you find and

2684
02:03:06,319 --> 02:03:10,840
it's it's a it's doubly problematic because Mike Brown's one

2685
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:13,680
Coach of the Year twice like that, he's not like

2686
02:03:14,079 --> 02:03:16,319
you guess, guess you're not gonna find a three time

2687
02:03:16,359 --> 02:03:18,479
winner out there that's like happy to now like the

2688
02:03:18,520 --> 02:03:20,600
coach of the year thing is crazy. And we've talked

2689
02:03:20,600 --> 02:03:22,560
about how like sort of silly it is year to

2690
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:27,039
year but for Tis, but you're not gonna do better

2691
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:30,039
like you're gonna do different like and that seems like

2692
02:03:30,079 --> 02:03:33,000
what the point? What the point was here was let's wait,

2693
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:35,439
we just need a different voice. I guess, like just

2694
02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:36,399
things aren't working.

2695
02:03:36,399 --> 02:03:38,960
Speaker 1: It's like has that even been I didn't really notice

2696
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:41,880
it in the Shellburn piece. I think Ziller mentioned it

2697
02:03:41,920 --> 02:03:44,880
in his and it's we always tangentially say like maybe

2698
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:46,760
the players were tuning him out or like you said,

2699
02:03:46,760 --> 02:03:48,760
you need a different voice. That hasn't even been part

2700
02:03:49,079 --> 02:03:52,800
of the messaging. I've more so seen league sources say,

2701
02:03:52,840 --> 02:03:55,199
like you can't criticize your team like that. I Meanwhile,

2702
02:03:55,279 --> 02:03:57,920
d Aaron Fox is saying everything Mike Brown has said

2703
02:03:57,920 --> 02:04:01,000
publicly about us, he tells us who our faces. And

2704
02:04:01,039 --> 02:04:04,000
so I'm not saying Mike Brown was perfect. This just

2705
02:04:04,279 --> 02:04:07,159
what was the line, and I quoted yeah from Ziller.

2706
02:04:07,199 --> 02:04:09,640
The thing about the Kings under Round under Round a

2707
02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:13,000
DVA is that everyone, well almost everyone is a mood

2708
02:04:13,039 --> 02:04:16,319
swing away from being fired. And that just seems like

2709
02:04:16,359 --> 02:04:19,279
what happens here unless you think Mike Brown is they

2710
02:04:19,319 --> 02:04:22,159
have other issues, but among their biggest issues is their

2711
02:04:22,199 --> 02:04:24,399
crunch time record. They've played more minutes of crunch time

2712
02:04:24,439 --> 02:04:26,840
than any other team, and they've lost so many games

2713
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:29,800
in that they've blown leads. If you think he's responsible

2714
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:32,119
for that, okay, fine, that's not even part of like

2715
02:04:32,159 --> 02:04:34,479
the justification that's being spun here.

2716
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:36,199
Speaker 2: Right, That's what I mean. That's the circle. That's a

2717
02:04:36,199 --> 02:04:38,000
good way, good place to end it, which is where

2718
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:40,479
we started it with me saying like, I'm just unsatisfied

2719
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:44,159
by any explanations that have been out there, and it

2720
02:04:44,199 --> 02:04:47,119
does just I think that's dead, right, is that? Yeah,

2721
02:04:47,159 --> 02:04:50,399
it just comes down to the owner just made a

2722
02:04:50,840 --> 02:04:54,319
like kind of hasty, not that well thought out decision,

2723
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:58,159
and that is the that was the norm until Mike

2724
02:04:58,199 --> 02:05:00,640
Brown was there like that, that's the thing. Like this,

2725
02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:03,479
what we saw the last couple of years was the

2726
02:05:03,520 --> 02:05:05,760
exception to the rule. And we're kind of back to

2727
02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:08,199
the rule now. And that should be very concerning if

2728
02:05:08,239 --> 02:05:08,960
you're a Kings fan.

2729
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:11,479
Speaker 1: I think, because well I was just to say, that's

2730
02:05:11,479 --> 02:05:13,479
a great nutshell of the entire discussion.

2731
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:14,479
Speaker 2: We're back to the rule.

2732
02:05:14,680 --> 02:05:18,520
Speaker 1: Not like this team can probably be salvaged. It won't

2733
02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:21,359
be because of how things are run in Sacramento. That

2734
02:05:21,479 --> 02:05:24,319
was fun. Do you want to we spend so long

2735
02:05:24,359 --> 02:05:27,279
on do you want to take it? Well, it went

2736
02:05:27,359 --> 02:05:28,920
under two hours, So what do we talk about for

2737
02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:31,920
the next six minutes? Really everyone expected wen.

2738
02:05:31,680 --> 02:05:33,479
Speaker 2: Twenty minutes on the Warriors. You can cut that out

2739
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:34,920
and make it its own thing if you want to.

2740
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:37,880
I don't know who's interested in hearing that. Thanks everybody.

2741
02:05:38,159 --> 02:05:40,840
Let us know if we you know, we didn't tear these,

2742
02:05:40,880 --> 02:05:42,760
but let us know if there was someone that like

2743
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:45,039
we should or shouldn't have discussed. We went pretty deep

2744
02:05:45,039 --> 02:05:48,560
here now that we've added eight other like also considered. Uh,

2745
02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:51,039
but you know, it can never be too thorough. We try,

2746
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:54,439
as evidenced by the length of this podcast. Uh, make

2747
02:05:54,439 --> 02:05:58,600
sure you rate, review, subscribe, follow us on all your socials.

2748
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:00,920
Check out both of us on Blue Sky. Dan has

2749
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:04,479
our handles there Twitter too. I guess I'm still gonna

2750
02:06:04,479 --> 02:06:07,000
call it Twitter. Make sure you're you're commenting on the

2751
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:10,000
YouTube videos. Over six k subs, Dan inform me today.

2752
02:06:10,079 --> 02:06:11,800
So just nowhere to go.

2753
02:06:11,840 --> 02:06:14,359
Speaker 1: But got to be like a record for a podcast

2754
02:06:14,399 --> 02:06:18,279
on YouTube, right, I don't haven't seen anyone that has.

2755
02:06:18,239 --> 02:06:22,159
Speaker 2: Never Uh, tell your friends, tell your enemies. Shout out

2756
02:06:22,159 --> 02:06:24,079
to Frank nil Keenan apologies, Jared Allen