Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo. These guys
are your favorites, so like to subscribe and rade it.
Speaker 2: Five stud s and me.
Speaker 3: Greatest go on.
Speaker 1: Yes today and listening watching Lim always keep its watching
and now you're hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bubo Fame Cliff.
Speaker 2: I'm excited, man, I missed Mike the last time he
was here. I mean that listen to two is Micah
Hanks show, and then I also enjoy Sasquatch tracks, so
I'm really stoked that I get to speak to him today. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about a guy who's well rounded in various
weird fields. Man, Micah is one of these guys. He's
totally in the UAP thing, the UFO stuff. He's got
a super deep interest that goes back a long ways
in the Bigfoot and god knows what other weird stuff
this guy's into. He's a weirdo. Love him for me though.
He's just a friend. It's just someone I see occasionally
at these these away gigs and stuff. It's so funny.
The first time we had him on it was I
didn't even realize how active he is and like writing
things and podcasting and He's just some dude I know
and became friends with. I didn't know about his qualification.
So Micah, thanks so much for coming back on Bigfoot
and Beyond with us nerds.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it's always great to be with you guys. Bobo again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't ever get to catch up like this,
so I'm really looking forward to this too, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's been going on, Mike? I mean that
lot's been going on. I mean that the UAP thing
seems to be spitting and just and I wouldn't say
out of control because it's always teasing, teasing, teasing, like, oh,
we're gonna tell you this, We're going to tell you this,
and then they tell us something that pretty much everybody
already knows anyway, Like, is that it has been your
main focus lately or have you been delving into other
weird stuff?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: I try to keep one foot, you know, firmly planted
kind of in both the worlds of Sasquatchry but also
UAP and you know again the artists formerly known as UFO's. Yeah,
there's been a lot of news lately. There has been
some new stuff coming out. There are some promises of
things forthcoming. I'm sure we'll get into all that, but
there was also a bunch of stuff that was recently
released that we kind of already had access to with
some notable caveats. But I'll just begin by just saying this,
and I think it's a good philosophical point to observe.
People have really warmed up to the idea that there
could be craft of unknown origin phenomena in our skies
that could have very strange origins, and yet many will
still balk at the idea of there being a large
anthropoid ape somewhere out there in the remote wilds of
North America now here present. I'm pretty sure that we
would all agree one of those seems like a less
extraordinary possibility, and yet people still turn their nose up
at sasquatch. What's up with that?
Speaker 2: People?
Speaker 1: Man, they're the worst.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That is the simple and probably the most elegant explanation
is in it, though, you know.
Speaker 2: It just seems like no matter what kind of release
or non release, it all seems in the end, whoever
has the controller it wants to maintain control some how,
not just how they release it. But the perception goes
like people with power that especially this power to release.
Are going to use that power to shape the perception
to benefits them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and really, what are your thoughts, Micah, what is
the benefits of an ape in the woods at the
end of the day, Not much, right.
Speaker 3: I guess it's not the kind of thing that, you know,
the defense establishment in the United States is going to
see as being a potential concern. Now. You know, some
might make the argument that there are certain government agencies
that would be concerned about that, right, and not so
much really the presence of the eight but more probably
how people would respond if there were widespread acceptance of them. Again,
that's a whole discussion we could get into. But really, fundamentally,
like you say, Cliff, it's probably not the kind of
thing that people are as worried about as the idea that, oh, gosh,
there could be technologies flying around in our sky and
we don't know who's piloting them or where they're from.
So yeah, I see why there's so much interest, I
really do. Well, you know, I say it a lot.
Our government are essentially consists of a lot of arms dealers.
You know, there's a lot of money being moving around
selling weapons to people who eventually use them against US.
I just don't see that monetary interest there in the
Bigfoot land. And some people might argue and push back
by saying the logging interests, but I just don't think
that's enough, because that's not the kind of level of
economics that the arms industry, like the military industrial complex
deals with on a daily basis. Right, Yeah, the one
interesting thing, and you've no doubt seen these these are
well known documents, but I think it was the US
Forest Service, or at very at least it was the
Department of the Interior that had kind of broadly put
out a series of memoranda back in the nineteen seventies.
One of them had been talking about, you know, what
would be the response if a creature like sasquatch were acknowledged,
And it was really presented as a what if scenario,
but in that document it was essentially saying, you know,
scientists would have to respond to this. There would be
protection efforts. You know, we would have to consider a
lot of things about public safety because there would be
a change in the way that people would be going
into the forest, the kinds of things they would be
going there for, what they'd be doing. So there is that,
But again I always point out that seems to have
been a what if. I don't think that was sasquatch
disclosure circ in nineteen seventy eight, right.
Speaker 1: No, No, not even close. And of course, when you
think about it, sasquatches are already there. Do you really
need to change much of anything? I would argue No,
I mean you probably want to protect some maybe core habitat,
like maybe you'd have an increase in the number of
acres of wilderness area for example, you know, where things
like you know, logging and road building and cars and
even bicycles aren't allowed to operate, like complete pristine virgin land.
There's so little of that left in the United States
or even North America really in general, although Canada and
Alaska are kind of exceptions to that. But there's so
little of that left. I think that more land would
probably have to be set aside. And I'm one hundred
percent in favor of that, you know, because my background
is actually oddly enough, in fishing. When I was growing
up in southern California, I worked at fishing tackle stores
and stuff, and at the time, in a my more
immature brain state, I didn't quite understand it. But there
was a law that they were trying to push for years,
and I was against it at the time because they
were going to shut off like about I forget how
many square like miles like five miles of coastline on
the backside of Catalina Island of fishing, so no commercial fishing,
no sport fishing, nothing, And I said, can oh, that sucks,
as some of the best fishing, right. I wanted to
go fish sea bass and stuff like that. But they
eventually passed the law, and I was a disgruntled, little
immature boy, and I go, okay, but let's screw them.
But turns out, like literally within a few years, like
three to five years, fishing in the surrounding area was outstanding, outstanding,
you know. So just a small, little protected oasis for
these fish to live and breed and not have any
pressure on it all had a huge boon to the
entire fishing industry essentially in that general area. And I
know the same thing happens in our forests as they
do in the ocean. You leave it a section or
two alone, and great things come from it. So I
think that's the consequence of proving sasquatches are real protected
areas where chunks of land can can recover from the
pressure that humans put on it on a regular basis
and all the surrounding lands benefit from it.
Speaker 3: Amen to that. And you know, Matt prot and I
we've been out there in the woods together and we
always say we can get out there, we can spend
time a whole weekend and we can see nothing, but
we're always appreciative of the time we've spent out there
in nature. And so for me, you know, conservation is
a huge part of the whole sasquatch equation. Again, so
much we could say about that, but yeah, just to
echo your cent amount one hundred percent, buddy.
Speaker 1: And it's also not like you aren't allowed to go
into these areas. You are allowed to go into these areas.
You just can't bring motorized things with you. You can't bring
a chainsaw, Okay, deal with it. So it's basically just
for backpackers or people who want to hike for the day.
It's not like that you aren't allowed to go there.
Because I hear people screaming about that a lot, Like
if bigfoots are going to be proven, then they're going
to close off land and you won't be able to go.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that at all. I think that's
I think that's a fear based, small minded view of
the situation. You will be allowed into those areas, you
just won't be able to bring machinery with you, so
you can't drive, Wow, leave your car at home, or
leave your car at the trailhead. You can walk in there.
That's what that area is for, just like you.
Speaker 3: Would, you know, encounter if you're in a bear sanctuary
or an area that is you know there's a there's
a significant population of any kind of wild animal. You're
going to need to be aware that that animal is there,
like Yellowstone or any place. But people certainly are going
to go there, and that's going to actually again probably
improve not only general awareness of that habita, but again
that conservation.
Speaker 1: Effort exactly exactly. And what you're really going to hear
all the screaming and crying are basically from the bots
on social media, because remember the recent studies have shown
between forty to sixty percent in some cases of all
social media accounts, no matter the platform, are robots. I
can sympathize with the bots.
Speaker 3: And again, you know, it's it's unfortunate that so much
of the discussion about again what once we're known as UFOs,
but now they've kind of been rebranded as unidentified first aeriel.
Now it's unidentified anomalist phenomena. So they could keep the
UAP designation. But you know, half that debate right now
on social media, Cliff, really is exactly what you're talking about.
It's people with extremely opinionated worldviews fighting back and forth
and then bots just eagging them on, which is one
reason I'll alert your listeners.
Speaker 2: They weren't.
Speaker 3: They're probably not going to find me very much on
social media. I have accounts, I'm not active. I avoid
all that. The real conversations happening in you know, dialogue
like this, let's find out what's known, what's unknown, what
we hope to find, and what can we learn about
what's already put out there right not on social media.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you have such an expansive background in
these subjects, and I'm not really a UFO guy, and
I've seen a couple of them. I think they're cool,
and it's just it's just not my thing, you know
what I mean, It's not what I hooked me, but
I am interested in it. I don't study it, but
I'm interested in it. And one of the things I
don't really understand. Maybe you can shed some light on this,
And this's probably a very simple bait, basic question. Why
did they change it to UAP as opposed to UFO.
Speaker 3: That's a really good question. So the use of the
word unidentified aerial phenomena, I've actually dug through existing government
documents that have been around for decades. The earliest reference
I've seen was from an FBI document from I believe
back in maybe nineteen forty nine or so that referred
to unidentified aerial phenomena. Now, they were just using a term,
you know, that could apply to these things. That was
kind of a catch all. And keep in mind that
was really before the term UFO had become popular. People
were still calling them flying saucers at that point. Sometime
in the late nineteen nineties in the United Kingdom there
was again a kind of a shift toward well, let's
not just talk about flying saucers or even things that
might be structured craft. There's a lot of stuff in
the skies that people might see and they might call
aerial phenomena, So let's just call them unidentified aerial phenomena,
and that was the terminology used in a report called
the Project Condine. Report was finished in two thousand and then,
essentially when the United States kind of started following up
in recent years, we saw that with first the UAP
Task Force and now the official Pentagon investigative office called AERO,
the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. They essentially said, you know,
UFO was really stigmatized. People immediately think little green men.
Let's try to sanitize this a little bit and use
a different term so that people think about this in
terms of, Okay, this is a defense issue, it's a
national security issue. We're taking it seriously, and if there
are things in the sky we can't identify, we want
to know what they are without leading with the assumption
that we're talking about little green guys and flying saucers. So,
in a nutshell, that's why they use UAP nowadays.
Speaker 2: Well, also because those flying where these things, a lot
of them are trans medium they're seeing going in and
out of the ocean and observed underwater, So I guess
that's part of it too, right.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Bobo, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a crucial point because many observers in
the military in recent years have claimed that they have
seen these things, like you said, coming out of the
ocean or going into the water, and that's nothing new.
I mean, there are reports going all the way back
to the old US Air Force Project Blue Book investigation,
which lasted a couple of decades, still the longest systematic
US study were actually studied by any government that's known
to the public. But they had reports describing UFOs coming
out of the water and going in as well. And
then there's the possibility they may enter Earth's atmosphere from
space and vice versa. So yeah, the idea was aerial
phenomena was too limited. They shifted to anomalist to account
for those trans medium capabilities. So you're spot on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it's a clever use of an acronym. Anomalist
is at an aerial Yeah, that was literally the next
question I wrote down for you. Yeah, what about those
like the ones in the water. I mean, because at
the end of the day, liquid is kind of like
a thick gas. It behaves much of the same way
a gap. Of course, the atmosphere is made out of gas.
The Ocean's clear they made out of liquid, right, it's
just denser molecules at the end of the day, so
they behave in a similar manner. And of course when
you get up the space, there's basically no medium that
they're flying through, you know, it's just more more or
less a what's close to a vacuum? I think that
if I remember right, once you get outside the atmosphere,
like further away, I think the density of molecules is
something other terms of like one molecule for cubic cubic
meter or something like that. So it's close but not
quite to a vacuum. Right, So these these ocean going
things are probably using the same sort of technologies I guess,
And if I mean what little I know, it's it's
not exactly a Well, let me ask you, is anything
known about the propulsion mechanisms, because I mean, I watched
that that a documentary recently my wife had me watch
and they kept talking about gravity things, and gravity is
not a propulsion, it's an attractive force. Is there anything
in any of these talk abouts that you have looked
over about about the propulsion technology or anything like that.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I've looked into a lot of it. And
I'll say this, first of all, there are different schools
of thought about whether the phenomena that have long been
recognized as UFOs, and I'm a student of that phenomenon.
I've read books about this, you know, going back, I
mean really most of the major literature about this. Yes,
these phenomena have been described as traffic, can enter water,
come out of the water, They allegedly travel into an
out of space. But there's some debate really as to
whether what the Department of Defense is studying is necessarily
the same thing in all instances as what traditional UFO
buffs right would call, you know, UFOs or aerial phenomenon.
Now that said, there's a lot of concern about, you know,
what kind of capabilities these things exhibit. Are these really
simple technologies drones, balloons, things like that that are being
used by foreign adversaries. We'll leave all that aside for
a moment, because I think the ones that people are
most interested in are the idea of actual anomalous craft
that come from someplace far off right. The theory would
be that there would have to be some kind of
a field propulsion. They aren't exhibiting, you know, some sort
of traditional you know, propellant force like what our jet
aircraft or our rockets use to get around and in fact,
one of the most intriguing things about some of the
military imagery that's come out in recent years, and by
that I mean really since the turn of the millennium.
One of the best known cases from two thousand and
four involves the famous Nimitz incident. But these objects, whatever
they are in these pieces of footage, they don't seem
to show any kind of propulsion mechanism. There's no exhaust,
there's no heat signature, so it would have to be
we would assume, rather than some kind of a propellant
using chemical propellant like rockets do or jet fuel, these
are some kind of a field propulsion in theory, and
that would be a way that these can seemingly traverse
mediums going through air into like you mentioned water, which
has a very different kind of composition but essentially would
still support a object that could move if it were
being propelled with field propulsion, and then the same thing
in the absence of any kind of a medium in
the vacuum of space. So that would be one theory,
but again it's really open to conjecture. I guess in
terms of what exactly it is, what that technology might represent,
how far ahead of it could be. And I will
say this too. One of the recent US government studies,
which was the Defense Intelligence Agency program known as the
Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, that did actually look
at futuristic technologies that might be feasible in the decades
to come, but that could you know, maybe explain some
of the things we're seeing that UAP do right now,
weird things that they're able to do. So that's definitely
been a focus of some of the government studies too,
which in itself has become a bit controversial. But I
would say that field propulsion might be a simple answer
in terms of what we think they might be doing.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bogo will be right back after these messages. Yeah, field propulsion.
That that sounds fancy and I have no idea what
that means.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's break that down. So the general principle
would be that you're going to you're going to use
forces like, for instance, you're going to manipulate gravity, or
you're going to manipulate some kind of you know, you know,
for instance, you know, electromagnetism in some way that moves
a craft through space without propelling it like a jet does,
which essentially is just firing energy. And of course there's
a whole lot of energy, but there's a you know,
quite a quite a cost to that energy as well,
and distinct limitations. Hence, while we have mid air refueling
for our best military jets and things now UFOs or UAP,
we want to use that term, the way that these
are described and the way that they are observed moving
is in no way, shape or form similar to our
conventional aircraft. If anything, it's more similar to drones. But
we also don't see propellers, we don't see you know,
the kinds of things that we would associate with drone aircraft.
So if there's some sort of an electromagnetic propulsion or
if I think bo you may have actually said anti gravity,
did you throw that in there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we're if we're talking about some kind of
a technology along those lines, that seems to be the
leading idea, and then of course we also have these
ideas like warp propulsion. Miguel al Qubieri was a scientist
back in the nineteen nineties who worked out the physics.
We don't have this technology yet that we know of,
but the physics behind this is that you could warp
space in front of an object and it would be
able to move through space by warping space around it
rather than actually moving, which is kind of a four concept.
But just think like Star Trek when they go to
warp drive, they're warping space around their spacecraft. So that
also has been put on the table. The simple answer,
we just don't know. This is all purely hypothetical, but
that's one reason why some of these studies have looked
into these technologies and their feasibility. We want to try
and know if there's somebody out there who's already figured
this stuff out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and my buddy I saw one one night when
we were down on the Lost Coast camping. It was
like a boxy type structure straight sides, it had straight
sides to it. Then the front of it was flat across,
so it was like three quarters of it was a
box and the back trailigeron had a slight like roundtail
to it. It was kind of like it came out
in like sort of like a half oval shape. But
not that traumatic. It was. It wasn't like a real round.
It was you know, slight. It just buls out a
little bit more than the outside rails on the forward
leading side. And then it had like a like it
looked like a like a neck like it looked like
a turbo shell with the neck sticking out of it.
And then like the head on it like it had
a like a shovel head shark like like it. It
looked like that look like the head of a shovel
head shark on like a neck attached to this like
squirreish body with a rounded off tail. And this black
like like a black flashlight beam would come out of
it like shoot out in front of it, and it
would like blink out and then the and it and
I know that they feel like light can only go
so far. It doesn't stop. This this stopped. It went out,
it shot out, and then then the the craft whatever
would would would just instantly fling into the like to
where the end of the beam was. It did that
like there'd be like a slight pause which in each
burst of the beam that it would and it was
moving you know, pretty fast. I mean, I mean it
wasn't like fashioning I've ever seen, but it was and
flew up over the mountains, and then it went up
to the highest coastal peak on the west coast of
the West coast of the US, King's Peak. It flipped
the King's Peak and then went down into the canyon
in a big flat canyon, and we just were like amazed,
and it never came out. And then I'd seen these
bunch of times back in the early nineties where we
saw those like little round, those little round pulsing lights
that flashed different colors and then zip all around like crazy.
We saw two of those over the ocean, just doing
those super erratic patterns, and they dropped, they dropped over
the horizon. Maybe they're dropping in the water, and it
looked like they're dropping over the horizon, and they shoot
up above the horizon and zip all around crazy and
then and they eventually just like went down over the horizon.
Never came back up for about an hour. But yeah,
like I always tripped on that. And I saw the
UFO guys and the head I forget he was the
head move on investigator for North America. I always had
a conference with him. Really cool guy. Anyways, that he
said that he knew a really well respected researcher that's
seen that, and then he said he knew another report
of that from someone that was like, you know, like
the guy checked out, But have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 3: You know, I have heard of those, And in fact
that the first one you described is really interesting and
it reminds me a little of the descriptions of some
military witnesses during a famous incident that occurred a minut
Air Force base back in I believe nineteen sixty eight,
So there are at least some similarities to the way
you described that, which I actually find really interesting, Bobo.
It's a very interesting incident. But long story short, there
were the crew aboard a B fifty two Strata Fortress
that were flying over this object that had gone down
below them and had taken either a position on the
ground or was hovering close to it. And when they
flew over it and banked, they looked down and they
described seeing something that was essentially oval, but that there
was sort of a necker and extension in this kind
of a front bumper thing, which, if I'm understanding your
description of what you say you saw, it sounds kind
of like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know why the six I didn't. It didn't
look like this surminded it. It's those those big snow
walker things the Machines and Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back.
It kind of looked like just remind me that like
a like a neck sticking out, not a super long neck,
but like a neck. And then yeah, like that shovel
head shot. It was. It was Bizarrely, I was gonna
say it was big, dude, because when it flew down
behind it flew into the it flew down next to
kings Peak, down into the into the canyon. We were
guestimating that it was four hundred yards long and like
maybe two hundred yards wide. It looked at me about
and we were a couple of miles we were probably
we were about five or six miles from it when
it dropped down into there.
Speaker 3: That's big.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was really big.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very interesting though. That's a heck of a siding. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the three times I've seen it.
Like I've literally had like one hundred different sighting events
over my lifetime, and there's only I think there's only
three that I could see the shape, and that was
one of the three. The restaurantlways just pulsing lights.
Speaker 3: See, I got to come out in the woods with
you guys more often.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, these these turned out. When I met Mike Rugg,
we got that run round the Santa Cruz, the oh guy.
What was that the name of it, Bigfoot Discovery. He
had the Copre Tourist Discovery Museum. He he was the
movefine investigator for California back in the seventies, eighties and
early nineties. And I said, m I said, yeah, I
go from like eighty nine to ninety three. We watched
these things all the time, and I saw a black triangle.
I saw a black triangle. Yeah, Like I never heard
anyone else say this. And that thing that told me
about he only heard a couple people talk about the
one with the neck. He said that he'd heard this,
he'd heard this before, but not very much. Was this
thing was flying what over the one on one High
which is like one of the three main north South arteries.
It's the coastal route that runs along the west coast
of the United States, So it's one of the three
arteries that goes up and down. So so it's amazing.
It was July third, just after sunset in nineteen ninety two,
and it was coming down over the freeway coming from
northwest head southeast and it was just like it was
still a little bit blew over the horizon to the
west and then to the east. It was completely dark,
so it was dark. It was like it was it
was probably five ten minutes, so total darkness. And I
could see this thing coming. I'm like, what the heck?
And then I told I told the driver to pull over,
and we got out. We all washed it, and it
as it flew. As it flew its direction, it kept
the same course. But it looked like it looked like
when you have a little kids bowling and you put
those bumper those inflatable tubes down like the gutters, so
the ball just bounces down so it hits the pins
so that it can't go off, like it just bounces
back and forth, but it keeps going, you know, in
the one direction it like, you know, towards the pins.
That's what this thing was doing. It like it was
like it had invisible guide rails on the side. It
would and each time it did a little ricochet and
then and then it would change course, you know, like
you know, just as it headed southeast, it would just
bounce like it it looked like there was invisible barriers
that kept it from like it looked like it was
going to shoot off to the direct south or direct east,
but it would like hit some in visual invisible bearer
and then whatever was the leader. Say there was ABC
points for the three points of the of the triangle,
like A would it bump and then it B would
be the lead one, then it would bump again, and
C would be the lead one. Like it it constantly
did that how high and there was no there was
I guess they usually have three like a light in
each corner, like three lights or whatever, and there was
no lights on this one. It was just completely black.
And it was big too. That thing was We were
guessing that they had to be at least to one
hundred yards on each each rail each side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds very consistent in terms of size. And
you know, would you believe I actually get more of
those reports probably than almost any other kind, maybe with
the exception of the little round orbs. But it's it's
recently been discussed even by some of the officials, including
the current Director of arrow doctor John Kazlowski. He has
said that they have been receiving reports of those triangles
and they find them very interesting because apparently they don't
believe that those belong to any kind of government organization,
any kind of contractors. We hope it's not some sort
of foreign adversary. I mean, in my opinion, I don't
think that that kind of technology has been proven to exist.
I mean, and yet people still say they see these
things like yourself. And I've been getting reports for the
better part of two decades, so I mean, yeah, that's
that one has always been one of the most interesting
classes of UAP in my opinion.
Speaker 2: And I mean if you've heard a little of doing that,
like but like about like like the like switching which
was the which which point corner was the lead, like
just back, like switching back and forth, back and forth
sort of.
Speaker 3: It almost reminds me of descriptions people have provided where
they say that those large triangular craft are they move
almost like a water skipper or like a water bug.
If you think about how they kind of move slowly
and then they'll kind of speed up, you know, and
then they'll slow down and they'll kind of hover and
then they'll speed up and move, but they'll bounce in
different directions. I have actually heard those kinds of descriptions
before for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one wasn't like it was a constant speed
that never never chan speed and it was dead sound.
I mean, well we were on the freeway like it was.
It was. That's that's saying what I was saying. It
was July third evening because it was it was like
a Thursday, like a Thursday or Friday before fourth of July,
or maybe it was a Wednesdays. It was like a
five day weekend or something, but it was it was,
you know, it was like that night when everyone's traveling
and it was the free was packed that we saw
maybe one or two cars within a couple of miles
of us pull off the road and we were like,
I guess looking, I don't know if I don't know
if they're looking or not. But I mean, it wasn't
like a bunch of people pulled over like and there
was thousands of cars, like there must have been eight
thousand cars that had a chance to see this thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: See that's the part that gets me. I know, there
are a lot more people out there, and I would
say the same about Sasquatch too. I mean, there are
a lot more people probably who have observed all these
kinds of phenomena then who are willing to come forward
and talk about it. And again, if you could just
get everybody who has seen these things or who's very
intriguingly and I've heard some stories on this podcast, you know,
about alleged imagery of sasquatch and things like that that
hasn't been publicly released. But again, if people didn't feel
so encumbered by those stigmas and felt that they could
openly talk about this and share what they've seen or
even photographed, we probably have a whole lot more data
about these phenomenon. I bet you there are some excellent
photographs of these big triangles that you know, people have
probably taken and they just never put out there because
they didn't think it was something they should, you know,
release to the public for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: We were talking about propulsion out like we're having some
of our sacred historical cows led to the slaughterhouse, you
know recently in Big footing, you know, like, oh, things
that we thought were legit that maybe aren't. These historical
couts that people quote, and this one, I know, this
one's rememberable lot of people because James Fox always says
it's his favorite sighting is the Zamora sitting from the
sixties down and I believe New Mexico. Yeah, and when
the craft because I guess there's a lot of evidence,
like physical evidence, you know, where the where the landing
gear hit and all that, and you know he was
he's a great witness. But when that, I mean, I'm
not I'm not debating, I'm not doubting his observation or
or what he experienced, but just the fact that it
took off him like it made noise and it had
like it it had a flame that came out of
it and like smoke like it was like I always
thought like that's but he said that he said he
saw aliens outside of the craft, Like so that's because
I was I always I'd always think that that that
just sounds like that if if the UF, if the
US government was making flying aircraft that you know, anomalist
aircraft like that, that there's that we still don't have
anything like it today and they were supposed to doing
this sixty years ago or whatever. I always saw like,
if if we had a like that would be the one,
because like it sounds yeah, like sounds like an internal
combustion engine. But James Fox, he said, he goes, no,
I don't think it was an internal us an injin.
I was like, well, why would it have flames and
smoke coming out of it, you know of it? Because
he said it wasn't like on fire like the guy
A Zamora said, it was just like the that was
the propulsion was causing, like like a turbo afterburner or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really great case, and you know, really
briefly to touch on that in case anybody isn't aware
of the specs on that one that Bobo's describing. The
Lani's a More incident or the Sikoro incident. It happened
on April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four. Lonnis and Moor
was a police officer. He was actually chasing the guy
who was speeding through town and he saw initially like
what he thought looked kind of like a flame up
in the sky, and he thought that this might have
something to do with a TNT shack, which was a
concerning possibility. It was a shack where they stored explosives
up there on the top of the hill, and he
thought something might have exploded, and so he drives up
there and at that point, like you mentioned, Bobo off
down in the arroyo, he sees something and at that
point he kind of interpreted it. He thought, you know,
just glancing at it, oh, a cars turned over in
some kids are standing next to that overturned car, so
maybe they're in trouble. I'll drive over there and try
and help. And he recalled seeing two beings. He said
they looked small and that they kind of started, you know,
like they were startled by the side of the car.
Then again, he was in a police cruiser, So I mean,
if I was a kid and the car just overturned,
I'd probably be kind of concerned too. But you know,
as he got closer, he realizes it's not a car.
It was some sort of an egg shaped or oval object.
And as he is pulling up, yeah, it starts lifting
off the ground. And he said it was making a
tremendous loud, thunderous roar, and it was so loud Zamora
thought it was going to explode, and so he actually was.
He jumps out, you know, I think he was actually
already out of his patrol car. But he runs around
behind it and he dives onto the ground, takes cover
because he thinks it's going to explode. And once it
gets up to a point where it was about level
with where his vehicle was up on the hillside below
the little arroyo where it had landed, he said, the
loud thundering noise stops. And when it was rising, You're right,
there was a flame what seemed to be some sort
of propulsion mechanism that was lifting it up off the ground,
and flames are shooting out of the base. But then
when it got to that height, he saw all the
sound stop, the flames disappeared, and then it just zipped
off silently. Now it's weird because there appear to be
two different propulsion technologies in use right there. One of
them we don't know what it was, but one certain.
You know, it really does actually sound very similar to
a jet or a rocket kind of propulsion. One might
even argue it was consistent with like a hot air
balloon in some ways in the way it was described.
He never got a good look at the little people
that he said he saw outside the craft, but he
said there were definitely two little individuals who had been
outside it when he initially pulled up. And I'll tell
you something fun about that. David marl Or a friend
of mine, and he runs the National UFO Historical Record
Center in the Greater Albuquerque area. David and I drove
out there and we got up there to the site
where where the landing actually happened back in April nineteen
sixty four, and we stood up on the hill and
looked down there into the arroyo, and you can still
see the rings of the stones or the Air Force
officers had gone out there and they'd put those around
where the landing gear had touched down. I mean, it
was really cool. I imagine if you could go to
like a famous Sasquatch sighting location and the footprints were
still there. It's almost like that. We don't really have
that luxury and Sasquat's research, but we do have that
with the Sicoro case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what did you so, what did you guys determine,
like what could have been the sources of the propulsion?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Now, I will say this Project blue
Book looked into it, and at that time the director
of Project blue Book was Hector Quintinia. He was extremely skeptical.
He was convinced there was some kind of a lunar
landing module or some kind of a you know, a
landing gear for a spacecraft being tested, and he looked
at all possibilities and never could find any evidence that
that's what that was. To this day, there's never been
any kind of confirmation if that was any kind of
a special US technology. But to your earlier point, you
hear a story like the Sikoro incident, if the US
was developing some weird let's say that was it's some
you know, experimental nuclear technology, like a nuclear propulsion system
they were testing. Or maybe it was some weird experimental
balloon like a two man you know, balloon aircraft, you know,
high speed balloon type aircraft. I don't know. I've tried
to go through every possibility, from extremely advanced to deceptively
simple but really weird looking right, I couldn't tell you,
but I would say it sounds most consistent with either
some kind of almost like a balloon kind of a
takeoff and landing for vertical and you know, takeoff and
landing situations, or or it's some kind of a rocket
like propulsion. But it's not impossible that that could have
been one of ours. The thing is, it's just never
been acknowledged. So that's a weird one. And again it
is a unique case because the principal witness was a
member of law enforcement who swore throughout the rest of
his life this is what I saw. I was right there.
I don't know what it was. Nobody else does either.
So it's really personally one of my favorites. And I'll
also say this Bobo superficially, at least the shape of
that object is somewhat reminiscent of the famous two thousand
and four object that was seen there off of the
coast of California, out there in some of Cliff Barrickman's
favorite fishing waters out there in SoCal where the Nyman's
incident took place.
Speaker 2: Well that's what the nimits was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was out there off the Baja California coast
in two thousand foot Baja. Yeah, so in general area.
Speaker 1: Geographically, Yeah, a lot of stuff seems to happen just
out in the south of San Diego, so that would
be Baja as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well north of Catalina is that Catalina and nominally
like right, I mean, I'm looking right out where that
spot is actually the one off La Venti area.
Speaker 3: That's the is that the underwater feature they say is
out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of so, I mean, I think
it's so. When I was talking to some UFO guy
and he told me that that is the third hottest
spot for US underwater submerged objects that unidentified submerged objects.
He said, that's one of the three hot spots in
the in the globe.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have some colleagues actually as well, doctor Matthew
Shadagas and some folks with the Scientific Coalition for UAP
studies that. By the way, it's really the only group
that I'm a part of. I've never really been one
of those. I'm going to go join all the groups
and do that, But I did join SCU and it's
a group of scientists they study UAP and some of
them did some investigations out there in that same area
and they actually did film something unusual. But the Nimitz
incident again is really one of those intriguing ones because here,
in addition to the video that we have seen, which
most are probably familiar, back in twenty seventeen, New York
Times did the article that kind of first released that
there was this investigation within the Defense Intelligence Agency. Accompanying
that reporting, there were three videos released. That video had
actually been out there on the internet for years. It
had already been in circulation. But again, when you have
a couple of FA eighteen super Hornet pilots who said
that they went out there, they were vectored out there
to investigate because there was an unusual radar track. They
see something that was moving really weirdly over the ocean's surface,
and they were this royling kind of bubbling up from
underneath as though there was something under the water where
this object was moving around, and then it zips right
by the lead pilot, a Commander Dave Fraverr. And then
they said that they got a similar track on radar
moments later at what's called their cap point, which was
a designated position that only they knew of and that
they were using for a position for their training exercises
during their wargame exercises that afternoon. So later that afternoon,
they sent out another group and another pilot named Chad Undwood.
He was actually the weapon systems operator on board and
out going FA eighteen at that time, basically the guy
who's working all the weapons systems and the cameras. He
actually gets a track on this object out there in
the distance that they can't identify, and so he zooms
in and films it for a few seconds, and that's
the famous footage we've got. But I mean, in my case,
that's a really weird one. And those objects were allegedly
observed on radar dropping from like ninety thousand feet, which
is higher than any of our aircraft go with the
exception of maybe there are some spy planes that can
get on up to seventy eighty thousand feet. Balloons can
certainly get get up that high. But they said these
objects would drop from ninety thousand all the way down
to sea level. And you know, again, that would be
impossible for any kind of aircraft that we know to
exist to traverse that distance in that amount of time,
considering G forces and all these other things. I mean,
it'd be ripped to shreds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I saw that happen that the night
I had my craziest UFO encounter by far, and the
only one I had where it was up close.
Speaker 3: That's here.
Speaker 2: This is what we did. We went out, well, we've
been watching these things at this point for like three
years and going up to this place, Patrick's Point State Park,
and I was listening to like one of those big
UFO podcasts, and there was a guy on there who
had a daytime thing happened up there at Patrick's Point,
and it was like he was like within two hundred
yards or where we were, but ours was at night.
We went out there, and my buddy was a San
Diego State professor. He was a he was a wild
dude and he's you know. I was just saying, like,
then you can you can communicate with things like non Verby,
Like you know, you can think things and they can
pick up what your thought and they can give you
a thought back. Like I didn't have like big long
conversations with them, but just well, i'll tell you the
first time I ever saw the UFO. I'll just tell
you real quick. I'll get you the brief runt down.
It's a long start getting a quick one. I was
going to my very first bigfoot where I was the
first person to hear about this. My buddy's roommate in
college was fishing up up in Ooric and it's on
the south border of Redway National and State Park. And
he was fishing for salm and the sun run and
it was mid October and it was really foggy and
and Redwood Creek is really like a river. It's it's
deep and fast flowing like you know, during the rains,
and it just rained. So there's the world's biggest hell
curds right there. So he'd hear these elk come down.
They'd come down and it's it's it's a levee system.
The levee starts right there before it goes through challenge.
It's a wild river, creek whatever coming down. And then
I guess on the edge of town. And when the
valley spreads out it they put in levee walls, so
he the right where the levee start. He'd hear like
the gravel and sand coming down and like, you know,
something big coming down, and then he'd see the elk
and the elk with he'd hear him surge in there.
He couldn't see him, he could hear him come they'd
surge across the creek and then their feet wouldn't touched.
And so when they like he could hear him swimming like,
he'd hear him come into the creek like directly across
from and then he'd lose he'd hear the legs, you know,
get softer and software as it got deeper in the water,
and sleighs weren't, you know, making too much noise, and
it'd go something. As they swam across and floated, they'd
hear him surge out they decided to just blow them,
and he'd barely catch it. He'd barely be able to
see him barely. Then also he heard something like he
thought it must be the biggest bull elk like on
the planet come down. And it surged in the water
so he can clearly hear it on two legs, and
it was like way louder than the other things. It
never lost footing and serged across the whole way and
it and as it came ashore, it was way closer
than the elkwhere when they came across, and it just
looked at him and just kept walking about eight foot
and just built like you know, like just like like
the biggest NFL linebacker ever saw eight foot eight hundred pounds,
and like he just he came back and crapped his
pants and told us. And I had my license suspended
at the time, so I couldn't drive, and so I
got these girls to get me a ride up there.
And they were kind of like hip each like toll
hipya chicks. They were cool, and so they went. They
were all upseted, said and I and he twent exactly
where it was. I'm like, this is the first big
foot investigation. I'm going to like, well, I'm not. I
saw I'm reading something John Green wrote about it was
some of these paper articles I read. It was like
I heard it. It was that day. Like everything else
I everything else I'd ever followed up on was like
years or months old. So this was like I was like,
oh my god, I let me see it, Like this
is crazy. So we were driving up to that night
about seven o'clock and Clever it was dark already, and
we see this white and red light like mostly red. Yeah,
it was was. It was flying north of Trinidad, Trinidad,
heading towards Patrick's Point out over the ocean, and we
drove up and then it kind of was hovering just
just west of turned out northwest of turning out over
the ocean. We pulled over on the side of the
one oh one say, the same highway. The other happened
on about thirty miles south. This was this was before
that by about three years. And so we're up in
north of Eureka there and we washed it and we
were pulled over on the side of the road. We
were watching it. We could see there was another car
pulled up, like, you know, one hundred yards or so,
one hundred ThReD years ahead of us. We could see
there's another car pulled up, pulled over also and walked
like you always seemed washing because they pulled over like
when we did. And we're well, he was actually pulled
over already actually, And so we got I said, I
I know the perfect probably we go out to the
Wedding Rock off of trinidaud and State Parkers is rock
that juts out in the ocean. There's there they kind
of trail out up into it out of the rock
itself and then the rock like they just carved stairs
in the rocks. It sticks out in the ocean. So
I said, let's go up there. So we jammed up
there and went out there. We sat on the rocks
and we saw that that that that ship that just
flew off and went way up high. But then we
start seeing we thought they were stars at first, but
they were like pulsing, like they weren't much betterer than stars.
They weren't super bright, but they started getting brighter and brighter.
They they came lower and lower. They just they just
zig zag like crazy. And there was this one there.
They were like purple, white, blue, purple, white, red, red,
white and blue blue and green, blue and white, green
and white, green, white and red whatever, and like they
would just pol these different colors and like like it
was like a heartbeat almost, it looked like and they
there's this zigzag like with no no rhyme or reason.
And then and the girls they had had a bunch
of UFO encounters out in the foothills of the Sierras
at a famous God. I found out later it was
a famous UFO spot, like really well known, like God
south of Sacramento. It's by Angels Camp anyways, So they
were calling it the mothership, the mother ship, and so
we you know, we watched that, and then I looked
at the girls, because there's this one green and blue
and it only it only flashed green maybe like a
kind of purple ish a little bit in there too,
and it just was not as erradic, and it was
way smoother and like more graceful. And I looked at
the grocery. I said, you know, look at that one,
that purple green one whatever, purplely blue green one, and
and they were like you. I said, I think that thing.
And we all say the same time. A female and then
the one girl, Cassie's like, she's like, yeah, you know,
if we if we cross our legs and put our
palms out, like we sit like that lotus position you
like like boot it does, and you like put your
make loo the ok so your thumb and forefinger and
then put your your middle finger through your pinky straight
out right and you put them upside palm up on
your hand and like sit like you know, cross scissor
leg whatever. And so we did that. I was kind
of like, I was like, this is kind of you know,
like I normally to make fun of something like that,
but I was like this, like this, like they I've
never seen these things before. They have, so I'm just
doing all what they say. So we did it, and
I said, well, let's look at it and ask it
if you're a female spinning fast, tight circles. So on three,
we'll just you know, like, you know, say it mentally.
And I don't know if we said it verbally or not,
but we definitely like, also, let's just say it like,
we'll send it a message of if you're a female
spinning fast, tight circles. And so we go, all right,
that's one, two, three, and if you're a female spinning
fast ten circles, and we're a female, and before we
finish the second line, it just goes and like spun
and really fast, really tight circles, like faster than anything.
All night.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: So anyways, three years later, right, we'd watch these things
probably at this point in time, like eighty times over
the three years, we'd go up there and just watch
at night, and the well, we saw one actually that night,
that's that's okay. Another green and blue one flew over
the one O one, which is at night, it's really
slowed down, like especially in mid October. There's not a
lot of traffic, but one of them flew over the look,
there's a good right, there's some coastal lagoons right to
the north, and it flew over big lagoon, stopped over
the one, and just like a whole huge like light
like came out of the bottom of it and lit
up a you know, like a couple hundred yard area,
and it was it was I don't know, like several
hundred feet up a couple hundred feet maybe three well,
because the red was there can get up to three hundred,
so this this thing was like probably four or five
hundred feet above above the ground. And it shot a
beam down and we saw cars going, like one or
two cars going to east, north and south stopped they
wouldn't drive into the beam. And then it did that
for like I don't remember, like two minutes. Then it
flew around there with its beam on, and then it whatever,
it just took off the beam stopped, it flew away,
and it wasn't too much longer after that that maybe
an hour after that. This is probably this is at
this point, it's three thirty in the morning, and five
fighters justs came from the south and they went out,
they went towards the little flying ever orbs I guess,
or UFOs, and and they all just shot up straight
into the sky and it's just like they must have
been going like ten thousand miles an hour or whatever,
and they just and they zoomed up and like literally
as soon as they took off, within two seconds, they
were like gone, like I couldn't see them. And those
fighter jets all flew up and like went towards them
and didn't even go five seconds in the direction those
those craft went. And then they flew like regrouped and
flew back the way they came from. Yeah, here's a
good part that they just see this this part real fast.
My buddy Kell said, if we can pick these any things,
pick us up. If I think we can pick I
think I think they want to pick us up. They
I kind of got. The best is they wanted me
to get on board, like it sounds crazy, and they
like like oh, like being eager, just like oh they
wanted me. I'm a special But it was like I
think it was like anyone wants you that. I'm sure
they just like, yeah, if you want to, I don't know.
But we went up there, me and my buddy and
we climbed out on that rock and we sat there
in that position and we said, we're ready to go
for a ride, come pick us up. And that mother
looking ship one was it appeared way up high and
then all the way to the horizon, probably about fifteen
eighteen miles out, it just dropped straight down. I just
remember thinking, like like when a spider drops down the
web and it stops and it kind of does that point.
It just kind of stops with a little balance like
kind of it did that, and then it just started
rushing towards us and we start we're just like we're
like I I something in my head just instantly started
saying like this inner voice started like guardian angel, whatever
you want to call it was saying Bubbo, these things.
I just remember I remember this clear. This there was
it was my own voice saying, Bubbo, these things mean
you like no good with like this is these are
not good for you do not like you do not
want to do this. But I was frozen, dude, like
like I was like hypnotized. Like maybe it's just shocked.
You could say whatever, but I mean I was frozen,
and my buddy was just I remember, and then I
was fighting it, fighting it, and then I was like, Bobo,
you better. I was just talking to myself like her
third person. I was like, you better get up and
get going. You you're gonna be screwed, like you're gonna
get probed or whatever. And I was like, this isn't
good then, And I remember as soon as I snapped
out of it, after about ten seconds on this thing was,
you know, rapidly approaching. Was it was over halfway towards
us at that point from the horizon and coming fast
and was flying probably forty fifty feet off the water
or something like that, and it was coming quick. And
I looked over my nick Nick, and I grabbed started
shaking him, and his mouth was wide, like he looked
like a like a comic strip, like his mouth was
all the way over, but his eyes were popping out of
his head and he was just slack jawed, frozen, just
like just in utter shock. I remember I started shaking
him and I slapped him in the face twice, kind
of hard, and I started running, dragging him by his collar,
just dragging him over there. It's granite, you know, It's
like the steps were all cut out of rock, so
I'm dragging him n his granite steps. Then he he
starts scramming, like getting on his hands and feet and
like crawling real fast. And then he found I guess
to his feet and we ran. You just take and
then he passes me that almost knocks me off the
cliff and runs it runs like you know, and we're
both running on the pathway the rocky you come down
the backside of the rock and at this point we're
out of side, we're out of side of the of
the craft coming towards us. And we ran and we
came up and you drop down a sea level and
then you go back up and it's I think the
cliffs like oh, eighty ninety feet up it's about one
hundred feet and as we're going up the tailers, it's
overgrown on both sides of these big bushes that are
like eight eight foot tall ten foot tall, and so
we couldn't see things and the news. We got closer
to the top where there's a parking lot up there.
As we got there, we you just see the red
white mostly red light lighting up like the trees, like
the whole area around us. Because if you get up
to the top. There's red woods all around it and
sick of spruce, like you know, pretty it's all second
third growth, but there's you know, there's still tall trees
like you know, one hundred, one hundred and fifty feet whatever.
And so we run up and then and then and
then it comes into view and it was like holy.
It looked like an upside down lava lamp, but a
little more compact, not a skinny. It was like like
like if you squished a lot of lamps like topp
the bottom and it spann it out to the side
a little bit upside down, you know, just pulsing like
red and white. We're like, oh my god. We ran
up and we were in the parking lot and then
it comes up and it was silent and it rises
up over the trees like and stops about I don't know,
like two hundred feet from us. And it was up
you know, like probably one hundred feet one hundred feet
probably one hundred feet away, and then two hundred feet
up something like that, and all of a sudden, out
of it like you couldn't see this, like you couldn't
see like the side. He couldn't see the physical structure,
but you could see the outline of the I mean
you couldn't see any any sense of like what it
was made like, it was just a shape, but it
was no hard edge. It was just pulsing lights. And
then this like red looking hockey puck about five foot
by two and a half foot comes out of it
like you didn't see anything open, like no open, It
just came out of it. And then it flew over
us really slowly and stopped behind it, and I remember
we both we were both like so frozen. I mean
we both were looking looking look like as it went
over were killing our heads up and we both fell
on our like on our ass because we just we
didn't turn, We just were looking at We were frozen
with our head following it. So we leaned so far
back looking backwards that we just both fell over. I
still got a little scar on my ellbow from that actually.
And then it stopped, and then over the course of
the next like minute or forty five seconds, it just
also choom cheam chom chim chimed. These red little basketballs
come shooting out of it like like like like it
came out of the the hockey puck looking thing that
just they shot out like one hundred miles an hour,
and within fifteen feet they were just floating like you know,
like two miles an hour, and then like one hundred
of them came out or so on. As it came
in through the canyon. There's a fur fur silk colony
right there. There's a sea lion call on out past that,
so there's there's hundreds of pinning pads in there, and
they all went crazy, dude, like crazy, like like like
maybe if a bear got down there or something like
you know, was grabbing like a sea lion, like they'd
make a noise like that, but it was like that
kind of noise like like predator, like there's a predator
in the group. And they just went nuts. And then
those red balls came out. We heard car doors slamming
like all of a sudden, headlights coming out of like
you know, like when the campsites always saw a couple
of cars like flooring it out of there, just gunning it.
And then we just were like, I'm like, let's dude,
let's go, let's go. And I remember looking over towards
the north of us there was a family and they're
roasting marshmallows like just you know, one hundred yards from us,
you know, one hundred and fifty yards of the most
and they're just sitting in their ropes with and like
some of those red orbs were above like the trees,
just just above their heads. And they, as far as
I know, they never saw them. And we start running
out of the park. And as you run out, we're
running through the meadow, which is constantly enough the meadow
and Jurassic Park where they have the overhead shot where
they're going through the grass and the velociraptors come from
like six different angles out of them, like converging on
them overhead. That's the meadow we were in, and we're running,
and then this other dude was running out of the
tree line where the other campsites are, and he's dragging
a tedd You could hear his like states claiming as
he's dragging his tennis, sleeping over his shoulders, and he
looks over the shows there's some weird going on here, man,
And we're like yeah, we just kept running, and then
we ran up to where the employee housing was, you know,
like maybe a quarter mile away. We ran and the
hockey puck was following us. The whole way behind us.
It just stayed back along the tree line like maybe
you know, eighty one hundred feet up and it just
you know, was following us. And then when we got
to where the employee housing was, that it stopped and
we didn't see it anymore. But there was two park employees.
I don't know what they were, like biologists or landscapers,
I don't know what they were, but they were sitting
there on the back porch. There's two of them there watching.
I said, you gotta call the costs, right, you gotta
call like the newspapers. You got to call the government,
go call the air Force. And they're like just shaking
their head like we're not calling anybody. And that then
we didn't see anything after that. But yeah, that was
the That was my encounter. Have you ever heard like
something like those balls getting shot out before? Man?
Speaker 3: I tell you what, Well, there's a lot going on
right there.
Speaker 1: I have heard, well, well, right now, bobes. It's kind
of makes up for some of those other episodes where
you don't say very much.
Speaker 3: I got it. I've been hearing that Bobo had some
amazing UAP stories, and I'm thrilled to be able to
hear these. Actually finally we've we've been meaning to do
this for a long time. But uh, yeah, I have
heard some things similar to those, and.
Speaker 2: And like you heard of like a hockey puck coming
out and then shooting out basketballs, I.
Speaker 3: Have heard of.
Speaker 1: I have heard of something that all in sports fans
is what he really wants to know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I had one witness who saw one of
the big triangles over Oregon say that he saw an
object that and the way he described it was it
looked like a burn barrel. But he' said a red
burn barrel rose out of the back of the craft
and moved independently and started flying around in doing what
he said looked like a grid search. So I actually
have heard of He didn't explicitly say a hockey puck. Yeah,
but yeah, yeah, he said, you know, just like you'd
take a big, you know, tub or a barrel or
something in stack wood and everything and start burning that
and everything. He said it looked just like that, like
there was like fire or something coming out at the
top of it. So it wasn't really hockey puck shaped,
but it was like kind of like I guess you'd
say some sort of a glowing kind of sort of
you know, cylindrical shape, and that that came out and
moved independently from the larger primary craft. So I mean
I have heard about that, just not necessarily hockey puck
in description. But one more thing to Bobo when you
talked about meditating or conveying your intent to these craft,
and also the one that did the circular kind of
motion when when you and the hippie chicks were kind
of meditating at it. There was a study that was
done back in the nineteen seventies called Project Identification, and
there was a physicist named doctor Harley Rutledge who was
with I think he was one of the universities there
in Missouri, but they had an official UAP study. These
things were being seen all the time, these lights that
would zip around, and there were colored lights a lot
like what you were describing earlier in that account. And
he said that in some instances they could point at
these things and they would move around or they would
change their their direction in response to seemingly somebody pointing
or acknowledging them. So that as crazy as that might
sound to people who don't read deeply into UAP, literature,
you know, for somebody to say, yeah, I was conveying
a thought to the thing and it seemed to respond.
There's actually a lot of that in the literature, and
in some instances scientists like Harley Rutledge claiming that he
actually had that experience. He in some of his students themselves,
but they also described those lights moving around like you
were talking about, and the ones that do the zigzags.
That's what gets me, because I mean, if we're just
talking about satellites or meteors, you know, generally speaking, they
aren't going to do zigzag movements, right, And so yeah,
that is extremely interesting.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: Have you heard of like like shooting balls out like that.
Speaker 3: I don't know specifically about shooting balls out, but but
I could probably do a good deep dive into the
into the literature and find that. And in fact, if
I do find that, I'm going to send it to
you because I'd like to see if I find anything
similar to that in terms of descriptions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have heard of some uap stings where
there's like a central bright light and then almost like
a drones are set out from it, like where there's
a cloud of smaller ones kind of circuling it, circling
it in erratic patterns and whatnot. And again I am
no connoisseur of UFO stuff at all, like like you
are clearly, But would that be maybe something similar to
what Bobos has observed up close and personal?
Speaker 2: Maybe, Michael, Sorry, I forgot one detail about when when
the lava LPP flew up. There was going on from
like shiller to waist up like left shoulder to like
right waistline, like on each side there was one of
those red balls flying around really fast, like really fast,
doing like what you know, like there was two of them,
certain you know what I mean. It looked like it
was wearing like a like a beauty pageant sash, like
going from shoulder to waist, and it was doing that
like around the craft.
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, huh, I've heard of things like that. You mean,
like there was an independent light that seemed to be
moving in a circular kind of a formation around the
little craft.
Speaker 2: There was one on each side, like one going from
left shoulder to the right waist, so one from right
shoulder to the left waist like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I've heard things like that. See. I actually run a
site called the UAP Sidings Reporting System. I launched it
in early twenty twenty four just as and there are
others that do this too. There's the National UFO Reporting Center,
which has been running since the seventies and they've been
doing an amazing job collecting really one of the world's
largest databases. But I launched another one just because I
wanted to see if people would start reporting sidings to me,
because I wanted to study those and you know, case evaluations.
Sure enough, I get them from all around the world
now and it's incredible, it's it's super awesome. And I
have gotten a few where people have described little independent
lights on a craft that seemed to move independently, like
that are almost moving around it. And every now and
then you also hear those descriptions of things that sort
of sound like you described like a lava lamp in appearance,
maybe a different shape, but it has a lava lamp
kind of a you know, look on the exterior. Is
that how you would say that what you saw looked?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know what, you know what I
remember I forgot this part too. Well. We saw it.
We both said later, like, I remember, I'm looking at going.
Whoever made close sometimes of the third kind they have
seen these, because those ones that the one of the
cop car chases and it goes through the toll booth,
it was just like that, but scaled up a lot bigger,
but it was exactly that like that.
Speaker 3: That's crazy. I've got to come out in the woods
with you, man.
Speaker 2: Well I haven't. I haven't had any of this stuff
happening for like, god, like fifteen years. I mean, I
think I've seen like maybe three UFOs in the last
fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 3: God, that's still three more than I've seen though. Really, yeah,
you'd think i'd be the kind of guy who sees
these things all the time. Not to say that I
haven't gone looking. But it's funny because you know, Matt,
one time when we were out there in the Chattahoochee together,
I believe somewhere somewhere out there, we won't name exactly where,
but it was down in that area, and one of
the guys had talked about a UFO siding that was
made during a Sasquatch reconnaissance.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh, yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: I was telling you that story. Well, and also, you
know our mutual colleague Lorie Wade. Two. Also, finally we
sat down, Cliff at that event that you and I
were actually Matt you were up there too. We barely
got to talk up there at the Crypto con thing,
but Laurie and I sat down and we talked, and well,
she told me quite an interesting story about her experience.
So I know a lot of squatchers who have been
out there in the field and have had incredible UAP sidings.
And again, Bobo, just to be clear, all that that
you just told us had been in response to initially
a guy reporting a Sasquatch siding.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. In the very second public BFR expedition in
two thousand and four, we were in the Olympic Peninsula
of Washington. We three different cameras filmed and least a
dozen people's watched. We watched for I think it was
a couple hours. Bright white ball the side. It was
exactly like one third the size of the There was
a full moon, like I think it was a full moon,
but there was, well it was, it was a third
I don't think there's a full moon. But if if
the moon had been full like this would have been
a third. It was a third the size of the
moon and twice as bright, and it flew around like
you know, real slow. Didn't do anything radical, but we
three different cameras film that we like, I know people,
I know two guys that still have that footage.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, I see that.
Speaker 2: But it seemed like it was like ten miles from us.
It didn't had anything to do with us at all.
It didn't, it didn't. We had no sense that it
was even aware of us. It was so far away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting, though, you know, I mean, I can't
help but wonder sometimes, although I don't really personally endorse
the idea, but I mean when people do talk about
being out there looking for sasquatch and then they see UFOs,
I personally do not think they're connected. But I'm just
acknowledging that there are some in the research community, and
Matt and I have talked a lot about this who
they do make connections between sasquatch sidings and UFO sidings.
I think they're distinctive phenomenal, but it is fascinating how
many squatches I talked to who have said that they
have seen UAP while they've been out there in the field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they're connected either, but yeah, I
think it's a sad I think it has more to
do with having your weird and tena up. You know,
if you invite weird things into your life, the universe
will respond in kind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love Also how back in the nineteen
seventies there were enough sightings like this that UFO researchers
started trying to make a distinction sort of, and they
started referring to a unique class of UFO occupants called
Harry bipeds as if to try and say that Harry
bipeds were something separate from sasquatch. And maybe they were,
I don't know. Again, in my opinion, they're they're very
distinctive phenomena that or maybe maybe sasquatch at one point
where the pets of UFO occupants, I don't know, I'm kidding,
but it is interesting. And there was also this study
that was done by the guys who wrote that book
years ago called Freakonomics, where they were looking at the
overlap between locations where people said that they saw sasquatch
and where UFO sightings happened again. To me, it's very
important to point out, and I think that they actually were.
What they were trying to say was not that people
see sasquatch in the same place where UFO sightings are happening.
It was that correlation doesn't mean causation. He says that
the factors that are probably contributing to why those kinds
of sightings happen in the same locations. You're out in
a place where it's dark sky, you can get good
field of view, you can see for miles and miles,
You're in a wooded area, and there happens to be
overlap between the circumstances and the locations as opposed to
the actual alleged phenomena. Those guys probably didn't think there
was any such phenomena at all. But you know, in
my opinion, I'm actually a staunch believe that there are
aerial phenomena that can't be explained, and of course that
there are probably relict hominoids out there. Yeah, I'm not
in the these guys are all related camp.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, we have a lot more to
talk about, Mika. Can you stick around please for our
members episode because we haven't even touched upon exobiology, like
what might are there like entities or beings involved in this?
Are they biological or are they psychologue? There's a lot
of weird stuff since and I love topics like this
because I'm by no means an expert in UFO stuff.
Don't even study it. I just think it's cool. So
I have a lot of pretty basic questions and pretty
weird ideas, and I'd like to run some of these
ideas and get your thoughts on some of this stuff.
So if you can stick around with our members episode,
that would be amazing.
Speaker 2: Let's please do. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love getting into the weird conversations, and in my opinion,
Cliff nobody is really an expert when it comes to
UFOs on a topic like this. Everything's on the table
right awesome, Well, Bobba, why don't you get us out
of here and we can go to the members.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, folks, we're going to go over a picture
on now, so you can sign up for five dollars
a month, and this is could be one of our
best guests we've had over there, because I'm never this
excited usually, So come join us please and so but
until next week, everyone else, thanks, for joining us. We
appreciate y'all and keep it squatchy.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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