Speaker 2: Monday afternoon.
Speaker 1: Mister statistician face Man, as he's known on social media
Speaker 1: we know him around here, is the great Tom Haberstrow.
Speaker 2: Tom. Happy Monday, my guy. How are we doing doing?
Speaker 3: Great man? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm well, I'm well. I'm good. I'm good. So we
Speaker 2: do have I suppose if.
Speaker 1: You're going to, you know, make this NBA Cup thing
Speaker 1: a reality, you could do worse than Bucks thunder Correct
Speaker 1: as the final. So we've got a pretty exciting NBA
Speaker 1: Cup Finals matchup. I wonder how many people care about it,
Speaker 1: but give me your thoughts on what will be the
Speaker 1: final matchup of this year's Emirates shout out to the
Speaker 1: sponsor NBA Cup.
Speaker 3: I love this matchup because I love what Chris Middleton
Speaker 3: brings to this Bucks team and the fact that he's
Speaker 3: back and healthy is a much needed positive story from
Speaker 3: what seems to be an injury rattled season, beleaguered season
Speaker 3: of NBA star injuries. And Chris Middleton is finally back
Speaker 3: from his double ankle surgery in the offseason and the
Speaker 3: Bucks are whole at the right time. I wrote about
Speaker 3: it on Tom Thefinder dot com this morning. Is you
Speaker 3: know this this season has been a nightmare season from
Speaker 3: an injury perspective for NBA Stars. At one point, NBA
Speaker 3: Stars had missed fifty one percent more games than they
Speaker 3: did last year, which is astounding. You know, at this
Speaker 3: time last year, a couple of weeks ago, when I
Speaker 3: was on this program talking about it, the increase in
Speaker 3: number of game absences from star players had reached an
Speaker 3: increase of fifty one percent. And luckily there have been
Speaker 3: some returns. You've got Dejan sat Murray, who's not an
Speaker 3: A list NBA celebrity, but Chris Middleton has come back.
Speaker 3: And when you see the Milwaukee Bucks play, he does
Speaker 3: so much for them. And so look, it's not the
Speaker 3: marquee matchup that I think a lot of NBA fans
Speaker 3: are clamoring for. But I'm telling you, Spence, I think
Speaker 3: this okac Thunder team they should be on national TV
Speaker 3: every week. They are that fun to watch. They have
Speaker 3: that much kind of wholesome homegrown talent. If you watch
Speaker 3: their postgame press conferences on the floor at the podium,
Speaker 3: they are everything that I think NBA fans of your
Speaker 3: claim that the NBA isn't about, that is what the
Speaker 3: Oklahoma City Thunder are. They are elite. Defensively, they're in
Speaker 3: the talks statistically for the best defense in NBA history,
Speaker 3: the way that they defend and the turnover rate. Isaiah
Speaker 3: Hartenstein has been a perfect fit next to Shay Gilders,
Speaker 3: Alexander and Jalen Williams. And the fact that it isn't
Speaker 3: a marquee team in the NBA despite having the number
Speaker 3: two guy in the MVP vote last year and having
Speaker 3: the number one seed in the Western Conference. The fact
Speaker 3: that Okac is not going to be on Christmas Day
Speaker 3: is it's a real travesty for the NBA fan because
Speaker 3: I do think that this Thunder team is electric. They're
Speaker 3: the next big team, and they were the next big
Speaker 3: teams as recently as last year this time last year,
Speaker 3: and yet I think that NBA fans aren't excited about
Speaker 3: this matchup and they should be. You know, the Dame
Speaker 3: Janice and Middleton Jannis is playing some of the best
Speaker 3: basketball of his career and the Thunder are twenty and
Speaker 3: five with a points afferential that points them as being
Speaker 3: one of the greatest teams that we've ever seen in
Speaker 3: the NBA. I'm telling you, like they are at that level,
Speaker 3: that caliber team even without ched Holmgren, and it just
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like you said, the buzz doesn't seem
Speaker 3: to be there for Tuesday nights matchup, and it really
Speaker 3: is a shame because I think that it should be.
Speaker 3: It should have a lot of buzz, a lot of hoopla,
Speaker 3: because the Thunder and the Bucks deserve it right now.
Speaker 2: Tom, I promise I will not revisit this every week.
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like the legue has buzz right now, and I don't
Speaker 1: know how much of that is football.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to like you.
Speaker 1: Sports Business Journal wrote a piece last week I references
Speaker 1: to start the show, and you know, the local perspective
Speaker 1: is simply this, like whenever there has been a compelling
Speaker 1: basketball product around here, people have shown up, people have
Speaker 1: consumed the content, and people are interested, whether it's Utah basketball,
Speaker 1: nder Rick manjaris BYU basketball just signed the best recruit
Speaker 1: in the country. I AJ Debantsh's coming to Provo next year,
Speaker 1: so folks excited about that. And when the Jazz have
Speaker 1: been either really good or with a very clear direction
Speaker 1: of players that play hard with precision, people show up
Speaker 1: and play. But I will take advantage of having a
Speaker 1: smart guy on the show to ask you why you
Speaker 1: think that this thing simply is going in the wrong
Speaker 1: direction when it comes to interest of its typical consumers.
Speaker 3: I think part of it is that Lebron and Steph
Speaker 3: are still here, you know. I think part of it
Speaker 3: is that is the idea that, you know, the NBA
Speaker 3: has been slow to invest in the next great star
Speaker 3: because Lebron and Steph are still here, and until you
Speaker 3: can't go to that, you know, that mom and pop
Speaker 3: store downtown anymore, you'd probably take it for granted that like,
Speaker 3: one day that's going to close up shop, and that
Speaker 3: you're going to be looking around town being like, where
Speaker 3: am I going to get food? Where am I going
Speaker 3: to go? Me and my friends, and Lebron and Steph
Speaker 3: are still here at that age. You know, Lebron's turning
Speaker 3: forty here and Steph is getting approaching those years. And
Speaker 3: I just did the math. The number one team in
Speaker 3: national television appearances this year is the Los Angeles Lakers
Speaker 3: with twenty seven. Okay, they're a playing team. They might
Speaker 3: not even make the play in tournament, Okay. The number
Speaker 3: two team, tied with the Boston Celtics, is the Golden
Speaker 3: State Warriors. Okay, the NBA is still marketing this league
Speaker 3: as a Lebron and Steph league, and I get it.
Speaker 3: They just came off Paris Olympics. Their teams are hailing
Speaker 3: from huge markets in LA and the Bay Area. But
Speaker 3: there are real business decisions being made that lead to
Speaker 3: the Oklahoma City Thunder being this exciting that they play
Speaker 3: an amazing brand of basketball. They defend their tails off.
Speaker 3: They have a superstar in Shay Gildris Alexander that just
Speaker 3: slices up the defense and he's this fashion icon off
Speaker 3: the floor. And they're the eighth most marquee team in
Speaker 3: terms of national television games this year, behind the Philadelphia
Speaker 3: seventy six ers. And I think the NBA has to
Speaker 3: invest more in Anthony Edwards, in the Oklahoma City Thunder,
Speaker 3: in Victor Wemba Nyama, this next group. They have to
Speaker 3: put them in front of the national audience and market
Speaker 3: them as the next great thing. There just isn't that
Speaker 3: buzz around Anthony Edwards and Jahn Morant and Shay Gildos
Speaker 3: Alexander and Victor wembin Yama, but there should be. They
Speaker 3: should be on the same pedestal as Steph and Lebron
Speaker 3: in terms of marquee national TV audiences, but the TV
Speaker 3: partners have chosen elsewhere, and I think a lot of
Speaker 3: it has to do with the decisions to at the
Speaker 3: national TV level. And I also think just the conversation
Speaker 3: around the NBA is pretty rotten right now. It's like,
Speaker 3: if you turn on NBA coverage at the national level,
Speaker 3: it's a lot of complaining and a lot of you know,
Speaker 3: Steph and Lebron and negativity, and a lot of that
Speaker 3: is because the stars aren't playing as much as they
Speaker 3: used to, and that's a problem. But I think a
Speaker 3: lot of this is we have to put these teams
Speaker 3: on national TV and invest in this. Even if you
Speaker 3: take a little ratings hit now, Lebron and stepths can't
Speaker 3: play forever. And I do think that the league has
Speaker 3: to feature these guys nationally. It'll a lot better and
Speaker 3: market them a lot better, because it really is, you know,
Speaker 3: we've taken Lebron and Steph for granted in some ways
Speaker 3: that we continue to roll them out on national TV
Speaker 3: and not investing in the next wave of NBA stars.
Speaker 1: A lot of good stuff in there, and I do
Speaker 1: want to be clear, you are spot on about OKC.
Speaker 1: You know, watch the Jazz Okase game like a week
Speaker 1: and a half ago. Defensively, they're like and I keep
Speaker 1: drawing the parallel to NFL safeties, they're like ballhawks and
Speaker 1: the Jazz aren't good, but they couldn't get any.
Speaker 2: Action going consistently.
Speaker 1: And there are compelling teams and very good players, and
Speaker 1: what Sam Presty has done in OKAC to make them
Speaker 1: excellent now with a bevy of assets to continue that
Speaker 1: excellence moving forward. And of course there's always the scenario
Speaker 1: of when players decide they want to get paid because
Speaker 1: he had Durant Westbrook and hardened there at once and
Speaker 1: couldn't make that thing last. So there are plenty of
Speaker 1: compelling stories and plenty of talent outside of Stephan Lebron.
Speaker 1: But one more thing here, because you know the fact
Speaker 1: of the matter is Tom and you know this. The
Speaker 1: revenue streams the NBA creates internationally allows them to I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say turn a blind eye to the
Speaker 1: domestic ratings, but it allows them to make up a
Speaker 1: lot of that income, those revenue streams that maybe could
Speaker 1: be sacrificed a little bit with dipping ratings domestically you know,
Speaker 1: soccer is the number one game in the world, but
Speaker 1: basketball is number two. Soccer is the global game, and
Speaker 1: basketball moves the needle in China, which we all learned
Speaker 1: with the tight lipped nature of folks after the Darryl
Speaker 1: Mory tweet, and then in Europe in a way that
Speaker 1: football just doesn't. So is the expedited nature of their
Speaker 1: profit and loss statements because of the international money enough
Speaker 1: for them to kind of turn a blind eye to
Speaker 1: what is clearly now a trend of dipped domestic ratings
Speaker 1: or is that bad for business and they need to
Speaker 1: figure something out well?
Speaker 3: I think also you're hitting on something that is a
Speaker 3: big piece of this that we haven't talked about is
Speaker 3: the gambling aspect. You know, so much of the oxygen
Speaker 3: on air and I've been a part of this too,
Speaker 3: is devoted to the bets of the night, the parlays
Speaker 3: of the night, and you have you know, Charles Barkley
Speaker 3: and Kenny Smith on every broadcast talking their their their pips.
Speaker 3: And the same thing with ESPN bet is that the
Speaker 3: TV partners that are currently existing are trying to push
Speaker 3: a lot of gambling. You know what, the gambling doesn't
Speaker 3: do very well with is storytelling, and the storytelling is
Speaker 3: at a loss right now. And the Victor wembn Yama story,
Speaker 3: the the Shay Gilgris Alexander story, Luka Zancic, uh Nikola Jokic.
Speaker 3: They haven't done a great job of telling those stories,
Speaker 3: partly because they're international. Like Shay Gilders, Alexander went to
Speaker 3: Kentucky for a year, but he's Canadian, you is Serbian
Speaker 3: and didn't even play. He was drafted and then stashed
Speaker 3: for a year before he came to Denver. Doncic was
Speaker 3: this wonder kid that came to Dallas and was sensational
Speaker 3: from day one, but we didn't know who he was.
Speaker 3: Jan assigned Atkoupo, who's playing in the in the NBA Cup.
Speaker 3: He's the Greek freak and he has a Nike campaign
Speaker 3: around him. What a wonderful story he is. But it
Speaker 3: took years for us to really get familiarized with that
Speaker 3: product because a lot of these stars are international and
Speaker 3: they've invested in the sports gambling and I've profited off
Speaker 3: of that too. Is that those decisions in my career,
Speaker 3: like I've made money off of you know, media partners
Speaker 3: that are investing in these these entities. So it's not
Speaker 3: like I'm totally clean from this, but in terms of
Speaker 3: storytelling and that where we find ourselves, I don't think
Speaker 3: there's that much buzz comparatively where we could be. I
Speaker 3: think a lot of it is that those like more
Speaker 3: short term decisions business decisions rather than long term. And
Speaker 3: I could be totally wrong about this, but I think
Speaker 3: you're hitting on, you know, a lack of buzz for
Speaker 3: you know, Tuesday night's game, and it does bring to
Speaker 3: the forefront. You know, why is that? And for all
Speaker 3: the reasons I laid out, it explains why, you know,
Speaker 3: the NBA does have at this point a marketing problem,
Speaker 3: which I always thought the NBA was the best marketed
Speaker 3: product and on Planet Earth, like no sports league markets
Speaker 3: the NBA coming off of Jordan and the NBA is
Speaker 3: amazing and all that. It just feels like there's a
Speaker 3: we're in between eras right now, or we're trying to
Speaker 3: find our footing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, man, you're grown up.
Speaker 1: You know this, Like you followed the money to find
Speaker 1: the story and when the NBA was most compelling, the
Speaker 1: money hadn't you know, permeated its way through everything like
Speaker 1: players used to play because they needed to get paid,
Speaker 1: and coaches used to coach because they needed to get paid,
Speaker 1: you know, twice a month.
Speaker 2: And now the money is so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And if you just follow the money, and then if
Speaker 1: you listen closely, you hear things occasionally where they do
Speaker 1: say as the kids say these days, the quiet part
Speaker 1: out loud. So two years ago, after Dallas was beaten
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, Jason Kidd takes the mic and says,
Speaker 1: what you guys don't get is we're millionaires cheering for
Speaker 1: other millionaires.
Speaker 2: And I just went, oh, dude.
Speaker 1: Like I know, Jason, I'm aware of that, but don't
Speaker 1: say it out loud. I honestly think there's a feel
Speaker 1: from general, the general sporting public that if you're in
Speaker 1: the NBA circle, you're fine just cashing your checks and
Speaker 1: you don't really give a rip about whether or not
Speaker 1: the fans watch or not, because you're getting your guaranteed
Speaker 1: money anyway. Kevin Durant last year set it out loud.
Speaker 1: You guys don't understand. We never talk about the fans.
Speaker 1: We don't keep you guys in mind. So last thing
Speaker 1: here and then we'll move on to the more compelling stories.
Speaker 1: I honestly believe if we bottom line this, Jason Kidd
Speaker 1: said it out loud, these are millionaires cheering for other millionaires,
Speaker 1: looking from their ivory tower down to everybody else.
Speaker 2: That's what I believe.
Speaker 3: I've heard it from GM's executives around the league that
Speaker 3: are frustrated by the power that players have now both
Speaker 3: financially and politically, that they're untouchable. And is that the
Speaker 3: best thing for the league? That Lebron James last week
Speaker 3: and dude, the guy's turning forty, Like we're already playing
Speaker 3: on bar time in terms of like Lebron does he
Speaker 3: need to do more for the NBA, But as an
Speaker 3: example of where we're at, he just left in the
Speaker 3: middle of the season. JJ Reddick doesn't even have an
Speaker 3: answer for where he went, what he's doing when he's
Speaker 3: coming back in the middle of the NBA season, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, Lebron James still the biggest star in the
Speaker 3: sport and can just leave for multiple games and no
Speaker 3: one knows what's going on. And I think that speaks to,
Speaker 3: you know, the general lack of you know, I don't
Speaker 3: know if information is the right word or care, but
Speaker 3: I can certainly imagine people at the league office were
Speaker 3: not too pleased that he was gone for personal reasons
Speaker 3: and then came back and said he had to, you know,
Speaker 3: he had to get his foot right or whatever and
Speaker 3: get that taken care of. But no one knew, right,
Speaker 3: and JJ Reddick didn't know and couldn't say anything, and
Speaker 3: so it's it's, I don't know. It just feels we're
Speaker 3: at this place where, you know, guaranteed contracts in football, right,
Speaker 3: non guaranteed contracts in the NBA just isn't a talking
Speaker 3: point with the players union. But you know, you look
Speaker 3: at the the percentage of games played by end stars,
Speaker 3: it dipped below seventy percent at one point this year.
Speaker 3: It's now above eighty six percent. Currently, at this moment,
Speaker 3: star players are playing, you know, eighty eighty five percent
Speaker 3: of their games. But earlier this season it was dipping
Speaker 3: below seventy percent where stars were missing games. Thirty three
Speaker 3: percent of the forty nine players that had played in
Speaker 3: an All Star Game the previous three seasons. If we
Speaker 3: look at the top forty nine players in the league,
Speaker 3: one out of every three were in street cluss. And
Speaker 3: that's just tough from a marketing standpoint, not just for
Speaker 3: the League, but like for fans and like, hey, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go buy Lakers tickets when they come through Utah,
Speaker 3: But really, how much are you gonna pay if you
Speaker 3: don't even know if Lebron James is gonna be there?
Speaker 3: And so I think that kind of brings it all home,
Speaker 3: is you know, if you have stars that are missing
Speaker 3: one out of every three games, and you're supposed to
Speaker 3: put down money to go attend these games, or clear
Speaker 3: out your calendar and go to an NBA game, or Hey,
Speaker 3: what are we going to watch tonight? Are we gonna
Speaker 3: watch industry Game of Thrones or the NBA game? Oh,
Speaker 3: I don't really know. Is Giannis playing tonight? I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll just watch Game of Thrones. Like that's where
Speaker 3: we're at, and it has to be you know, it's
Speaker 3: it's hard to turn around the Titanic, but I think
Speaker 3: there has to be a culture change or else, you know,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be it's gonna be tough for everyone to
Speaker 3: make this money at the next TV deal, which by
Speaker 3: the way, seventy five billion reasons why those stars and
Speaker 3: those executives are going to be just fine.
Speaker 1: Right, And that's always going to be their bottom line
Speaker 1: and human nature is if you have a guaranteed contract. Look,
Speaker 1: if I signed a deal where I knew I was
Speaker 1: getting twenty million dollars, no matter what I did on
Speaker 1: this show, I'd show up on a Wednesday and make
Speaker 1: fart noises for four hours. I'm not mad at the players.
Speaker 1: I understand the deal. It does dilute the product, and
Speaker 1: that's that's what sucks.
Speaker 2: But let's move on. And to your point, the compelling.
Speaker 1: Stories are what those of us will love pro basketball
Speaker 1: in the NBA want to hear. So I'm gonna ask
Speaker 1: Tom Haverstrow to stretch his creative mind and tell me
Speaker 1: a compelling story about the five and nineteen Utah Jazz.
Speaker 3: The compelling story is, unfortunately, another residue of the NBA's
Speaker 3: incentive system is that Utah Jazz have a fourteen percent
Speaker 3: chance at the number one overall pick. I mean it is.
Speaker 3: That's the way that the league has set it up,
Speaker 3: is that the worst teams have the incentive to continue
Speaker 3: to be poor so that they get more ping pong
Speaker 3: balls to get a guy like Victor wemben Yam or
Speaker 3: Cooper flag Ace Bailey, you name it. And it's not
Speaker 3: always the number one guy. The Thunder have this dude
Speaker 3: Jalen Williams who was not even a top ten pick,
Speaker 3: who is looking like one of the best young players
Speaker 3: in the NBA, and Shay Gilgris Alexander also not a
Speaker 3: top ten pick. So it's possible that you can still
Speaker 3: get an elite player outside the top five, but your
Speaker 3: chances fall off pretty dramatically, and Utah right now as
Speaker 3: it stands, it's just it's hard to build a winning
Speaker 3: culture when we know the incentive structure in the NBA
Speaker 3: as such that it's it pays to lose, and marketing,
Speaker 3: you know, it would make things so much more interesting
Speaker 3: if Lowry Markinen wasn't locked in, but he's locked in,
Speaker 3: and so you're kind of just building around Lowry marketing
Speaker 3: and hoping that like they're able to fast track this
Speaker 3: bring in some real talent around him to take advantage
Speaker 3: of the fact that two years ago the dude was
Speaker 3: an All Star, starting in the All Star Game and
Speaker 3: averaging twenty five point game, and now after two years
Speaker 3: of being kind of in the bottom of the league,
Speaker 3: you're looking at a guy that is struggling to maintain
Speaker 3: that status. And I wish I had better news for you,
Speaker 3: but it does seem like Larry marketing at this point.
Speaker 3: And you've talked about this before. Is he a one
Speaker 3: A on a championship team? I don't think though he's
Speaker 3: it one B or a C star player. Is he
Speaker 3: a third on an NBA, you know, championship team right now?
Speaker 3: It seems like the face of the franchise is probably
Speaker 3: in college basketball or international right now, because I don't
Speaker 3: know if it's marketing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a rough scene.
Speaker 3: I tried to do something positive and ended up being
Speaker 3: way more dark than I intended.
Speaker 1: Well, like there's there's just no way to spin it,
Speaker 1: and you know, I get a lot of pushback.
Speaker 2: I had Zach on last week, Zach Harper, your buddy.
Speaker 1: He joins us every week, and I had somebody reach
Speaker 1: out after listening to that interview, you know, being a
Speaker 1: little bit surprised about how hard we are.
Speaker 2: On the team, and I'm like, dude, what do you
Speaker 2: want me to do?
Speaker 1: I mean, we have smart basketball fans here that have
Speaker 1: seen great college basketball for decades, and while the NBA
Speaker 1: team has never won a championship, more often than not,
Speaker 1: this is a market that's used to seeing a connected
Speaker 1: team that plays hard with precision. They're the worst team
Speaker 1: in the league. The Jazz are this year at turnovers
Speaker 1: per game. They're the worst team in the league at
Speaker 1: allowing points off of turnovers. They're the worst defensive team
Speaker 1: in the league. They're the worst transition defensive team in
Speaker 1: the league. Indicate those are lazy things, those are habits,
Speaker 1: those are work hard things. Those are get back on defense.
Speaker 1: Don't be an idiot with the ball. And look, we
Speaker 1: could bottom line it and say this is all intentional.
Speaker 1: But to your point about covering basketball, it should be
Speaker 1: about the games. It should be about talking about what
Speaker 1: we're seeing and the games. And if I watch the
Speaker 1: Jazz and I talk about what I'm seeing, all I'm
Speaker 1: seeing is some of the worst basketball we've ever had here.
Speaker 1: And I really feel Tom because you will. Hardy's had
Speaker 1: his option picked up both year four and year five,
Speaker 1: and I'm telling you when that hire came down, I
Speaker 1: talked to all of my NBA contacts and one said
Speaker 1: grand slam. Jeff Van Gundy on the show called them
Speaker 1: a rising star. Steve Kerr said something to that effect.
Speaker 1: So my basketball knowledge says, a team that turns the
Speaker 1: ball over. A team that won't get back on defense,
Speaker 1: A team that doesn't play hard is poorly coached.
Speaker 2: But I can't go there with.
Speaker 1: Will because I just don't think he's had the pieces,
Speaker 1: and when he's had even average pieces, he's actually coached
Speaker 1: them up to when they were, you know, to a
Speaker 1: point where they were winning more games and people thought, so,
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a coaching issue, But Tom,
Speaker 1: this is a team that plays like it is poorly coached.
Speaker 1: Is it a roster issue, a coaching issue, a little
Speaker 1: bit of both.
Speaker 3: I think it's a top down issue in the sense
Speaker 3: that I mean, what do you expect the writing is
Speaker 3: on the wall with the direction of the franchise. They
Speaker 3: didn't they locked in marketing in of course, but there
Speaker 3: hasn't been an infusion of talent on this team, and
Speaker 3: so you expect Keyance George to be the starting point
Speaker 3: guard on a team that you know, like, I don't
Speaker 3: think he's ready for that yet. You point to Will
Speaker 3: Hardy as the coach and maybe that's his job is
Speaker 3: to develop him. But I mean, there isn't Chris Paul
Speaker 3: on this team right now, you know, And okay, see
Speaker 3: Mark Dagnel, he had Chris Paul in h and he
Speaker 3: was able to put that team in the playoffs. And
Speaker 3: you're seeing that the San Antonio Spurs have Victor Weman
Speaker 3: Yama and Chris Paul on the team and they're probably
Speaker 3: going to the playoffs or they're they're trending that way
Speaker 3: with the way that those guys are playing right now.
Speaker 3: And I just don't know if you can really expect
Speaker 3: a Michelin star meal when you don't get Michelin star ingredients.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, do do we give Will Hardy
Speaker 3: credit for turning Lowry Markinen into an All Star or
Speaker 3: a player who was starting an All Star game? You know?
Speaker 3: Like it? It cuts both ways in the sense that
Speaker 3: you can point to the team and that they're lasted defensively,
Speaker 3: and I will point out they are first in free
Speaker 3: throws in the league their free throw rate as a
Speaker 3: percentage of their field goal attempts, So there is something
Speaker 3: where they are not bottom. They're actually at the top,
Speaker 3: which is impressive. But that's certainly not going to put
Speaker 3: people in the seats that you get to the free
Speaker 3: throw line a lot. But there are there are little
Speaker 3: things here and there. We talked about it last week
Speaker 3: John Collins is having a resurgent year, but they have
Speaker 3: to defend much better. And the way that it is
Speaker 3: right now, just culturally, it's really hard to build a
Speaker 3: winning product when the incentive structure in the league is
Speaker 3: such that everyone knows the time that is, you know,
Speaker 3: if the odds were flipped and there was a different
Speaker 3: path for this team to acquire, you know, real franchise
Speaker 3: changing talent, maybe this isn't the conversation we're having, and
Speaker 3: maybe it is a matter of, like, let's go get
Speaker 3: let's go get a Draymond Green for our team. Let's
Speaker 3: go get a Rudy Gobert for our team and keep
Speaker 3: him here for the long term because you know what,
Speaker 3: like he might be older or phasing out of his
Speaker 3: thirties or out of his twenties, but you know what,
Speaker 3: we want to keep that guy here long term and
Speaker 3: not have to do a rebuild. But that's really what
Speaker 3: it comes down to, is the incentive structure is such
Speaker 3: in the NBA that it does help to add more
Speaker 3: ping pong balls long term, or at least it makes
Speaker 3: sense to the front office, And it's just tough marketing
Speaker 3: wise to do that.
Speaker 1: I so badly want Kevin got a couple of buddies
Speaker 1: still in the front office down there, and I so
Speaker 1: badly want to see if we can get a free
Speaker 1: throw campaign started, a marketing free throw advertising campaign started,
Speaker 1: because that's all I want now, Like, Hey, I was
Speaker 1: at the Sun's game on Friday. That building is not
Speaker 1: close to full, and it usually is, and it has
Speaker 1: been at times this year. It just wasn't Friday night.
Speaker 1: And that's Kevin durand that's seven Booker. Half the stadium
Speaker 1: was occupied by the BYU basketball team and athletic department,
Speaker 1: so there was a ton of excitement in the building.
Speaker 1: But now all I want is, if you're wondering why
Speaker 1: you should roll to games, just know we're a top
Speaker 1: the league at free throw percentage.
Speaker 2: Come on down to watch the jazz.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's what puts people in the seat,
Speaker 3: is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Totally.
Speaker 2: It's just brutal. It is just brutal.
Speaker 1: All right, Before I say you loose, I'll just revisit
Speaker 1: because every time I go to prep for the show,
Speaker 1: and every time I you know, kind of look into
Speaker 1: the jazz stuff. There are all of these trade rumors
Speaker 1: out there and we don't know the deal with Danny. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure how connected Danny is. It feels
Speaker 1: like Xani's doing most of the league work. You reference Collins,
Speaker 1: it's only a good thing either at twenty seven you've
Speaker 1: stumbled into maybe a piece of this puzzle, or you
Speaker 1: can move him and jettis him on. Like if you
Speaker 1: told me last year they were going to get a
Speaker 1: first round pick for John, I would have told you
Speaker 1: were crazy. And I still think that's a lot to
Speaker 1: ask for. But there's part of me that believes the
Speaker 1: team has built perfectly to lose a bunch and follow
Speaker 1: the salary cap rules because you.
Speaker 2: Got to pay players.
Speaker 1: So part of me wonders if they just sit back
Speaker 1: and do nothing, because they're actually on track to do
Speaker 1: what I think they're trying to accomplish, and that's maintaining
Speaker 1: their draft capital. But if you're an opposing GM, any
Speaker 1: of these Jazz Vets catching your eye right now, and
Speaker 1: what are you willing to give up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not going to be a first round pick.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately for my guy John, who went to the great
Speaker 3: University in Winston Sale and Wake Forest University, who just
Speaker 3: let go of their head coach, Dave Clauston, which very
Speaker 3: very confusing. But anyway, John Collins, it's tough to see
Speaker 3: a market for him that warrants a first round pick
Speaker 3: considering what we saw from Dennis Shruter. Dennis Shruder is
Speaker 3: going to the Golden State Warriors for second round picks
Speaker 3: and the Anthony Melton and so you know, that doesn't
Speaker 3: bode well for other players, like veteran players who are
Speaker 3: looking to or gms. I should say, who are trying
Speaker 3: to move a veteran player? Because Dennis Shruter averaging eighteen
Speaker 3: points and six assists while having you know, some great
Speaker 3: shooting two way ball for the Brooklyn Nets, and he
Speaker 3: was you know, he didn't get a first round pick.
Speaker 3: So it's gonna be tough to envision Sexton, John Collins,
Speaker 3: Jordan Clarkson getting much more than that, because I as
Speaker 3: good as John Collins has been, I think in terms
Speaker 3: of value across the league, he's probably in the same
Speaker 3: category as Dennis Shrewder and Dennis Shuter wasn't able to
Speaker 3: get a first round pick. So we'll see, but I
Speaker 3: don't I don't see a frothing market for John Collins
Speaker 3: after that trade.
Speaker 1: All right, Tom, Well appreciate the time, jazz basketball, free
Speaker 1: throws and such. But you know I'll keep watching pro basketball.
Speaker 1: I know you will too, my friend, have a great weekend.
Speaker 2: We'll chat too, all right, Bence, have a good one,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: The great Tom Haberstrow, very busy guy, has a number
Speaker 1: of different podcasts, rights a substack called Tomdefinder dot Com,
Speaker 1: rights for Yahoo Sports as well, and is on the
Speaker 1: Blazers analytics team.