WEBVTT 1 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.600 Hello, and welcome to Batflips and Nerds, the Baseball Podcast 2 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.640 with a British twist. I am Darius Houstin, and we 3 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:32.039 are back after a rather long hiatus. There's been a 4 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:34.600 lot going on within the team and efforts to schedule 5 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.200 have not gone well, but we've made it in time 6 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:39.920 for a post trade deadline edition. And joining me to 7 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.600 talk about all the activity is Rob Navera. Rob, how 8 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:46.560 are you? 9 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:46.960 You know what? 10 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.240 I have a baseball injury. Actually, I'm really going to 11 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:55.000 tell you and the listeners about I have a baseball injury, yes, sustained. Yesterday, 12 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.479 I was in the park showing off a few dingers 13 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:03.679 to my three year old nephew, and you know, I was, 14 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:05.560 he was, he was watching, he was he was impressed 15 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.560 about my my skills with a foam bat, and I 16 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:14.719 swung for the moon, hit the hardest swinging bunt you'll 17 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.799 ever see in your life, and then continued twisting and 18 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:21.400 managed to dissiccate my knee for the seventh time. I've 19 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:22.799 done that now, so I'm kind of used to it. 20 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.640 This was like a partial disslication this time. So I am. 21 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.560 I am on the I l because my power was 22 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:33.760 so much that my body could not contain it. Wow, 23 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.159 Well I didn't expect a bunt to be the cause 24 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:40.480 of the well, I mean it was a swinging but 25 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:42.640 like it was, I was going for the moon shot, 26 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:44.400 so I was trying to you know, trying to impress 27 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:48.040 the three year old, and yeah, ended up on my 28 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:49.599 back howling for the moon instead. 29 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:51.000 He stood there kind of. 30 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:52.879 Looking at me, sort of thinking what do I do 31 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:55.400 because you know he's a three year old not well 32 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:59.959 versed in in physiotherapy. So yeah, no, that was that was. 33 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.799 It was not my finest moments as onlookers sort of 34 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.040 stared stared in christ Church Parks if you were there yesterday, 35 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.719 I am still alive, and you saw a grown man 36 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.879 almost crying, so excise not not for the over forties, 37 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:15.280 I think is what I've learned here. 38 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:17.560 You've toughed it out. 39 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:19.800 I've definitely had the when you've been to the bat 40 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.400 and cage and you realize how much you use your 41 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:26.560 obliques whilst swinging, because after after you've taken like thirty 42 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:28.199 or forty hacks and the next day you're like, oh, 43 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.240 why do my sides all hurt? 44 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:31.439 Like all of it? 45 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:33.599 And they're like, oh, it's because I never do that 46 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:36.360 motion ever, unless I'm swinging a baseball back. 47 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:38.680 Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing wrong because my 48 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.879 bingo wings actually hurt more than my sides when my 49 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.159 knee hurts the most. But yeah, my bingo wings. Something 50 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.080 about I don't know what I'm doing. But yeah, that's 51 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:46.800 too much arm. 52 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.479 Maybe maybe we'll do a BfN training course at some time. 53 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.560 Ben can show us for what we're doing wrong. 54 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.319 As long as he doesn't try to show us pitching yeshots. 55 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:02.080 Trained the line trade deadline. Now, then we've got the 56 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:04.400 important injury news out of the way. We should talk 57 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.520 about the trade deadline, and there was quite a lot 58 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:09.759 of activity. I think there was some concern that this 59 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:13.000 would not be an entertaining deadline because of how many 60 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.919 teams are kind of still in it, but actually quite 61 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:18.560 a lot went down, and I think we should probably 62 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:20.919 start with the team that got the big business done 63 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.159 a little bit early, of course, and that's the Los 64 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.400 Angeles Dodgers. Who else acquiring Tarik Scuball, which has led 65 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.960 to much in the way of Dodgers discourse of the 66 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.039 Dodgers ruining baseball again? Do we need a salary cap 67 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:37.560 blah blah blah. So I guess I suppose to talk 68 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.840 about scooball himself. Is there much to say other than 69 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.319 that the Dodgers have made an already ridiculous team even better. 70 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:49.800 I mean, I was never one of those ones who 71 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.479 was on the Dodgers are ruining baseball game on that 72 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.159 train of thought, and I think this might be the 73 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:00.199 trade that a lot of people sort of have that, 74 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.360 who are on the same same thing thinking as me 75 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.719 is it's not ruining anything. There was a bit of 76 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:07.719 a sigh. It's just a really I mean, of course 77 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:11.800 it was. It was a exercising futility and inevitability that 78 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.560 this was going to happen. And I still don't believe 79 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.480 that the Dodgers are ruining the game. I think they 80 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.319 put themselves in a position whereby this is going to 81 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:24.560 keep happening for a little while. But it's it is. 82 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:26.480 It's got to tire them. It's got to tires them. 83 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.319 At least you maybe can say that you know the 84 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:31.720 game is is still played. Well, it's great to have 85 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:33.759 a great big baddie who is the big boss to 86 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.519 vat at the end. As long as they do get 87 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:39.560 beaten every now and again, but it certainly was a 88 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:44.959 little bit exasperating and just a tad boring. It won't 89 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.720 happen forever. I mean, we can talk a little bit 90 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:49.720 about in a minute about how they've they've got this 91 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:53.600 over other other teams, but you know, you know, these 92 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.199 these long dynasties of greatness are always propped up by 93 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.240 a lot of money. They're always propped up by having 94 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.160 to pay guys to go, you know, into the latter 95 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.720 parts of their careers. And eventually it might not be 96 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.079 for another five years, might be another ten years, but 97 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:11.079 eventually we're going to see the back end of those 98 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.040 those longer Dodger contracts starting to burn them a little 99 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:17.360 bit like the Yankees of the early noughties, where you know, 100 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:20.120 you had those guys sort of or maybe maybe the 101 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:21.879 mid to late naughties where they sort of sat there 102 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.480 and they've they've started to age and they're no longer producing, 103 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:27.800 and they're kind of bit stuck on the roster because 104 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:29.360 you can't shift them because their money is too much. 105 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:34.240 So discourse wise, I get it, I do get it. 106 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.720 It is tiresome. I would rather he had gone literally 107 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.600 anywhere else, But I still don't think we're at the 108 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:41.839 sport is broken stage. 109 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.480 Yeah, No, I don't think so, but I definitely do 110 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.000 think that it will be used that way by Manfred 111 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.319 and the owners. It's it's good leverage for them. But no, 112 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:57.519 there were other teams that could have made this type 113 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:01.120 of move and didn't I mean, as I think, you know, yeah, 114 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.439 as a fan of the Rays, that you had one 115 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:04.079 of those teams. 116 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:06.319 Them and the Brewers are. 117 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.560 Probably the two things who I think were widely considered 118 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.480 to have a better farm system than the Dodgers, and 119 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:14.920 it sounded like nobody was willing to part with their 120 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:19.000 big name, the Theo Gillins, the Hazes, smart days, Uh, 121 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:21.600 just Rade the parlor, you know, And so I guess 122 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.959 they went the next level down. But do you think 123 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.720 there was a package the Rays could have put together 124 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.199 to beat this if Gillan was included. 125 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.079 Would that I've got it done? Definitely? 126 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:34.839 I mean, there is absolutely no doubt for me that 127 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.439 both the Brewers and the Rays have all the prospect 128 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.160 capital they need in the world to be able to 129 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:42.279 get to get that deal done. Absolutely, and they could have. 130 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.120 They could have obliterated the offer from from Los Angeles 131 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.240 if they really wanted to, the problem is they don't 132 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:51.160 want to, and kind of for good reason. Los Angeles 133 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.319 have put themselves in a position whereby they have so 134 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.879 many players of skill and length on the team that 135 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.839 they actually genuinely don't need them, the big guys from 136 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:05.160 the from the minus so much so you could almost 137 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:09.720 say that the the value of a Dodger's top level 138 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.959 prospect is kind of less to them than it is 139 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:14.439 to the rest of the league at this point, because 140 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.279 they just don't need it. They have they have gone 141 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:18.360 to the next level. They've sort of hit this this 142 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.600 next plane whereby whereby there is a different value, different 143 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.879 calculus to these guys. So yeah, of course the Rays 144 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:26.600 could have done it. Of course the Brewers could have 145 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:30.920 done it, But any other anything above what was done 146 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.920 would be seen as a giant overpay for basically any 147 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:35.120 team other than the Dodgers. 148 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:36.079 Uh. 149 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.040 I'm not a big prospect guy, but I've heard of 150 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.000 River Ryan, you know, and reading what other people are 151 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.319 saying about as I hope not so much Brry Smith. 152 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:48.160 But these these aren't nobody like. These are considerable traps 153 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.360 to get back, and teams like the Brewers and the 154 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.199 Rays and all of them. All of the other teams 155 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.120 can't afford to push these guys for a rental like 156 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:00.279 the Dodgers can. Now they could have done it, Yes, 157 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.240 they could spend the money in the first place. This 158 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.959 is all their own creating by not spending the money 159 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.920 that they haven't spent in the first place. However, snapshot 160 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:10.560 in time, it's just not worth it for these teams 161 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.839 to get this this guy for a couple of months. 162 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:17.399 So I understand it. It's it's it's it's it's a 163 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:19.839 bit sad really that it's it's got to this point 164 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:21.680 where a little bit sort of oh God, of course 165 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.199 it's going to be the Dodgers again, and that's where 166 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:24.519 we're at. 167 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:28.879 Yeah, I suppose the next step is are we getting 168 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.600 the three pet I think that might be the thing 169 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.159 that pushes the majority of people over the edge of 170 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.000 you know, we all know how random baseball is, except 171 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:40.000 for the fact that the last couple of years the 172 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:43.320 Dodgers have actually won the World Series, and so if 173 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.000 they've traded for Scuoball and then you know, we get 174 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.519 into the playoffs and they're rolling out Scooball, Yamamoto, Glass 175 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.679 now Snell as their rotation. 176 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:55.120 Nobody runs off them. 177 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:57.399 Yeah, get I get that some people we use that, 178 00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:59.679 but I still don't think it's it's it's enough. Even 179 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.679 if they do three p I mean, it's we all know, 180 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:06.120 it's still you would take the odds of everyone else 181 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.039 versus the Dodgers in the postseason at the moment, they 182 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.039 were very lucky to get past both the Mariners and 183 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.360 sorry not Marin's. To get past the Blue Jays last year, 184 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.000 it was you know, there was times that they could 185 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:19.360 have lost that and they didn't look like the best 186 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:22.639 team all the way through that. So I think there's 187 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.480 still more chance that we don't have Dodgers Dodgers wringing again. 188 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.039 You know, if they get to the World Series, it 189 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.000 probably will be the Dodgers again, because, let's face it, 190 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.840 the AL and the NLR are unbalanced at the moment, 191 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.000 but it's still a crapshoot. So if we get that third, 192 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.399 let's let's revel in the fact that we're having this, 193 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.080 this great villain. You know, it's good for the sport 194 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.080 to have the big boss. As I said a little 195 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.399 while ago, We've had it with the Yankees in the past, 196 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.360 We've had it with the Cardinals, in the past. Fine, 197 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.039 let's have the Dodgers for a bit. Let's let's have 198 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.320 the big bad Let's let's have someone on top of them. 199 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.320 It's the same thing with the Afterrois a few years ago. 200 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:55.799 They just you know, they had a couple of misses 201 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.879 in between, and that's what happened here. Now, the Dodgers 202 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.519 will probably lose this year, win next year. Doesn't change 203 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.320 the calculus for me. Which one of the next two 204 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:04.200 years they win, is still going to get X number 205 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:05.279 of World Series in that time. 206 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:06.679 You know what fair play. 207 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.639 They've They've done it right. And it's not that they're 208 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:10.919 not cheating, they're playing the game properly. They're just doking 209 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:12.639 about a job of it. And that's that's what support is. 210 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.720 Yeah, I agree, and I think it's true. 211 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.120 I think we always get the reverse when there is 212 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.279 no great, truly great team. Everybody's like, oh, there's no 213 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.399 super team anymore. This is terrible, Like everybody's just mediocre. 214 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.600 You can't you can't really win. So I can understand 215 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.600 the frustration. But yeah, they've they've done a very good 216 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:36.039 job pretty much everything over the last ten years or so, 217 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.559 the Dodgers, and that's how they can trade a guy 218 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:42.000 like Hope and they still basically have an entire outfield 219 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:45.960 full of you know, top fifty prospects coming down the pipe. 220 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.399 So yeah, I think there is an interesting period coming up, 221 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.960 Like you say, when when Betts and Freeman Andania are 222 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:56.360 all in there, you know, late thirties. You know, what 223 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:58.440 is that going to look like? Because those guys are 224 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.559 still going to be on the team. But yeah, it's 225 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:04.679 it's coming that time. And can they replace all of 226 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.279 those Hall of Fame level players at the same time, 227 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.039 It's going to be a little bit of a challenging 228 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:11.080 for a team like the Dodgers. 229 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:12.679 I think shifting will be the hard bit. I think 230 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:16.360 shifting them, I mean they can. Yeah, they're on such 231 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.759 big money because because of what the Dodgers can do, 232 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.639 who's going to take on those contracts when they get rubbish? 233 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:23.440 You know, like no one's picking up Mike Trapp now, 234 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.559 you know, because he's not the player he was on 235 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.519 that kind of money. So I think they could find 236 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.000 themselves back into that corner a little bit. You could 237 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:32.039 be Elsbury style and. 238 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:36.080 Maybe maybe they just eat the money Dodger style. But yeah, 239 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:37.799 there's a lot a lot of money there to be 240 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:42.000 to be eating and yeah, even if they do do that, 241 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.879 it's still you know, the guys you're replacing, these a 242 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.799 generational talents. You're not just saying, oh, we need an 243 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:49.919 above average guy. You know, they are all going to 244 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.320 the Hall of Fame. So it's it's going to be 245 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:54.000 a very interesting period in a couple of years, I 246 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.399 think for the Dodgers. But I'm sure in the moment 247 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.919 people are fed up, So we'll see see how the 248 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:05.480 playoffs go. A team for who hasn't really panned out 249 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.320 their rebuild the way that they would have liked is 250 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.600 the Baltimore Orioles. And I think nothing could have been 251 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.519 more symptomatic of that than the trade they made with 252 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:17.440 the Red Sox, trading away Adlie Rutchman for a whole 253 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:20.720 package of prospects, including Anthony Ironson, who I think is 254 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.519 believed to be the best of the bunch. I think 255 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.720 it was three of the Red Sox top five prospects 256 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.200 the Oriols got back, so good prospect hall. But for 257 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:30.840 a team that if you'd gone back five years and 258 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.639 said who's the next big thing probably would have been 259 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.279 the Orioles. And now, now do you look at this 260 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.799 club and an avatar, probably Rutchmand, the avatar of that rebuild, 261 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:44.360 being traded away to a division rival, though yet less. Yeah, 262 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.279 the look for Michael Lias is not good. So what 263 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:48.360 did you make of this one? 264 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.840 And what do you think this this puts the Orioles 265 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:55.360 going forward? I think I think this is odd from 266 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.360 both sides. And maybe we'll come on to the Red 267 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.440 Sox a bit later, but the Oriols is another We're 268 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:02.399 starting quite depressing here with the things talking about. And 269 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:05.600 there's another depressing story, you know, like like come on, 270 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.240 like we could use another team on a bit of 271 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.639 an up because there are plenty of mediocre and worst 272 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.320 teams at the moment. We could use another big team 273 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.919 on the up. And it's just not worked at Baltimore. 274 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.799 But we Layman could see this this coming. You know, 275 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.360 we've been bemoaning their lack of starting pitching for years. 276 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.840 Just spent just a little bit of money on starting 277 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.080 pitching would have made the difference. You know, this this 278 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.720 team had that one one year which yeah they were 279 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.000 playing well above their well above their their their talent level, 280 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.159 but you know it was all there. There was there 281 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.919 was enough there to get a couple more bits and 282 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.000 go for it, and they haven't. And you know, you 283 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.039 know they they had the false dawn of the new 284 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.559 owner as well, and that's not really panned out, you know, 285 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.320 And when do you start pointing fingers? 286 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:49.519 Is it? 287 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:51.360 Is it ownership? Is it Michaelias? 288 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.000 Is it? Is it? Their player development? I don't know, 289 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.720 But it's not worked. And it's it's why is it 290 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:00.320 not worked? It mean to be an oral must be 291 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.919 pretty miserable. You've had, You've had years of being one of, 292 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.759 if not the worst team in the league. This was 293 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.320 this was the great reawakening and it's it's not come. 294 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.840 It's not happened. I mean, where would you point the 295 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.000 finger here? Is it? Is it? Elias? Is he is? He? 296 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:15.600 Is he not done enough? 297 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:15.720 Now? 298 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.279 Is Is that got to be where the where the 299 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:17.840 fault lies? 300 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:19.080 Yeah? 301 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.399 I mean I think you hit the nail on the 302 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.759 head with with one element of that with the pitching. 303 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.639 You know, we've consistently said where is the pitching? They 304 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.759 were very hitting focused in their prospector rebuild, and clearly 305 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.360 the strategy seemed to be kind of what the Astros 306 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.039 had done when Elias and Midel were there. We'll get 307 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:38.960 the hitting sorted, and then we'll go out and trade 308 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:42.519 for adjustin Erlander or whoever it might be. Uh, And 309 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:44.639 you know they did, they did make that Corbyn Burdens 310 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:48.480 trade mid season one year, but that was an expiring 311 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.559 and you know they didn't didn't bring him back. And yeah, 312 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.279 it's all been very mid rotation. We're not going to 313 00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:00.200 make the big splash and they've just that's that's one 314 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.919 side of it. But then I think you've also got 315 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.639 to point the finger at some of the sort of 316 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.279 the hitting development, the finishing off of these guys. 317 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.679 When you look at. 318 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.080 Mayo or Cowser or any any number of these highly 319 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.440 touted hitting prospects that were supposed to come up and 320 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.320 form the core of this next Orils team. You know, yes, yes, 321 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:22.879 Richmond has been good, but he's not been consistently good. 322 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:24.799 And I don't think he's quite hit the heights people 323 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.960 expected after his rookie year. And then even Gunner Henderson, 324 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.639 as you know, he was fantastic his first couple of 325 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:33.679 seasons and you know, he's still a good player, but 326 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.399 it no longer looks like this is a you know, 327 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.399 sort of elite court they're going to build around and 328 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.159 the rest of them have not worked out at all, 329 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.480 and so, yeah, the lineup is not crushing, and the 330 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.120 pitching has been pretty disappointing, and so yeah, I think 331 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.159 I think it is a compilation of things, but that 332 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:56.279 reluctance to make any investment in pitching of consequence. And 333 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.519 then just like I don't know what the cause is 334 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:02.279 with these guys, but you know a lot of them 335 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:06.519 were sort of seen to be can't miss type hitting prospects. 336 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.120 They've all been pretty bad. John Westburg as well has 337 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.799 not not panned out to a GRADEA. He has a 338 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.919 lot of injury trouble. But yeah, you could have listed five, six, seven, 339 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.320 you know, Orioles top one hundred hitting prospects a few 340 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.320 years back, and they haven't really got anything out of them, 341 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:24.440 and that's that's really hit them hard now. 342 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.000 So yeah, whether that's you know. 343 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.720 All on Elias, I don't know, but I think you 344 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:31.000 can certainly pin the I'm not going to spend big 345 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.679 on pitching on him. And they had that that little 346 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:35.960 window where they did look like they might be in 347 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.480 the ascendency and they didn't they didn't capitalize on it 348 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.720 with pitching, and now it looks like we're heading back 349 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.039 into rebuilt territory. 350 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:47.679 Or is it just the curse of Peter Lonzo where 351 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:53.720 he goes the team's just inexplicably rubbish. It's been fine, but. 352 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.360 It has been fine. Yeah, he's not He's not collapsed. 353 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.360 To be fair, haven't been any better since he. 354 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:06.359 Left they so no, no, he ruined it fully, I've 355 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.079 just just just a moment I want to talk on 356 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.480 the Red Sox side. There was a there was a 357 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.799 lot of prospects, and again I'm not a prospect guy. 358 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:14.839 I don't know my stuff particularly, you use certainly more 359 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.680 read into that than I am. Was it overpay uh? 360 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.119 I think it was pretty extreme. Yeah, I mean none 361 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.119 of these guys. Again, we didn't see any of the 362 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:28.119 you know, very tippy top best prospects in baseball move 363 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:32.039 and that's been pretty consistent with you know, most deadlines 364 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.160 in the last few years. Teams just don't seem willing 365 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.920 to part with those types of players unless you know 366 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.039 you're getting a guy with many years of control. Back Rutchman, 367 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:42.759 It's is under control for a bit, but not not 368 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.839 that long. But it is. Yeah, as I said, three 369 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.480 of the top five prospects, so they've they've kind of 370 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.920 gutted their system to go after him, and I think, 371 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.680 you know, they do have a need to catch he. 372 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:58.359 Neither Wong nor Noveys had really done an awful lot 373 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.759 this season, so it's a dressing a need for them. 374 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:05.640 But I do wonder was it necessary to go quite 375 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.079 this far, you know, were they competing with somebody or 376 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.680 is this one good thing that Elias has done. You know, yes, 377 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.279 that's been pretty good at trading for prospects in the past, 378 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.960 as he somehow convinced that the Red Sox that this 379 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:21.359 was the price they needed to pay. It does seem 380 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.519 like an awful lot, but we do see a lot 381 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.920 of these guys end up not panning out. I think 382 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.759 they were going through some of the Dodgers pass trades 383 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.720 on effectively wild the other day and sort of listing 384 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.000 some of the prospects they traded away at the deadline 385 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:39.079 for guys like you Darvish or Max Shazza, and most 386 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:41.960 of them were either guys you were like, forgot he existed, 387 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.319 or you know, they're kicking around the back end of 388 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.880 someone's bullpen as a mediocre believer, or they've never made 389 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.319 it to the majors. You know, there wasn't a lot 390 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:50.680 of names there where you're like, oh, I bet the 391 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.240 Dodgers are kicking themselves so that that guy go. So yeah, 392 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:57.680 it kind of it does sort of look like a 393 00:18:57.720 --> 00:18:59.680 bit of an overpay on the face of it, especially 394 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.400 given Rutchman's injury struggles. You know, he's on the il 395 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.559 right now and the fact that he's never quite got 396 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.920 back to that point that he did once. And I 397 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.359 also think I think I saw a couple of make 398 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.000 him the comparison that the race did much better, getting 399 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.279 Liar Mix for a much lower price, who has been 400 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.000 pretty equivalent in value to Rechimen. 401 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.519