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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking
Speaker 5: Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good Evening, This is your
Speaker 5: host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, The most
Speaker 5: shocking killers in true crime History and the authors that
Speaker 5: have written about them. When the urge took hold, serial
Speaker 5: killer Larry Bright brought women back to his home. After
Speaker 5: raping and murdering his victims, He brutally disposed of their bodies.
Speaker 5: Sometimes he built a white hot fire and burned them
Speaker 5: in his backyard. Other times he dumped them along nearby
Speaker 5: roads and fields. For years, Bright had trolled the roads
Speaker 5: and backstreets of Illinois for the most helpless, desperate women
Speaker 5: he could find. Then one woman escaped, and suddenly police
Speaker 5: were looking for bodies everywhere, trying to find out how
Speaker 5: many women Bright had really killed and what he'd done
Speaker 5: with their remains. Step by step, an all out investigation
Speaker 5: would shock hardened detectives. From interviews with women who survived
Speaker 5: their encounters with him, to the forensic search for bone
Speaker 5: fragments and pieces of burned, buried flesh, the case against
Speaker 5: Larry Bright finally closed like a vice on the man
Speaker 5: who turned his victims into ashes. Bone Crusher with my
Speaker 5: special guest Linda Rosenkrantz, thank you very much for agreeing
Speaker 5: to this program, and welcome back to the program. Linda Rosenkrantz.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Dan.
Speaker 6: Thank you. First off, what made you decide to write
Speaker 6: about this killer and this case in particular, Well, my.
Speaker 4: Publisher always tells me that readers like to read about
Speaker 4: serial killers, and in my research, I came across this,
Speaker 4: this case and I was fascinated. He killed you know,
Speaker 4: eight women, and I thought what would make someone do
Speaker 4: such a thing, and just got involved in it and
Speaker 4: went from there.
Speaker 6: Now, the story of Bone Crusher is set in Peoria, Illinois,
Speaker 6: and tell us where that is in relation to Chicago,
Speaker 6: and from your research, what type of community is prior Peoria,
Speaker 6: what is it best known for? And after that you
Speaker 6: can tell us about the what's really featured in this
Speaker 6: book is also the low track that's featured in this
Speaker 6: the place where the most vulnerable women are available in Priora.
Speaker 6: So tell us a little bit about that set. The set,
Speaker 6: the scene for sure.
Speaker 4: Period is about one hundred and sixty five miles south
Speaker 4: of Chicago. It's between Chicago and Saint Louis. And it's
Speaker 4: a blue collar community, blue collar city. Industrial. You know,
Speaker 4: industry started there. There was pork industry and flour mills,
Speaker 4: and you know, it has universities and it's always been
Speaker 4: known as sort of a typical American city. And the
Speaker 4: phrase will it play in Peoria? I'm sure folks have
Speaker 4: heard that originated there because it was such a typical city.
Speaker 4: In the twenties and thirties, vaudeville acts would go to
Speaker 4: Peoria and try their acts out, and if it worked
Speaker 4: in Peoria, they figured it would work across the country.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: So, you know, it has everything. There's affordable housing, there's
Speaker 4: great schools, colleges, medical facilities, arts. But, as I mentioned
Speaker 4: in my book, is a ced aside to the city
Speaker 4: and as a place that's just inhabited by prostitutes and
Speaker 4: drug addicts and people like Larry Bright who preyed on them.
Speaker 6: Right now, Larry Bright is the or a central figure
Speaker 6: of this story. Tell us about his life growing up,
Speaker 6: and tell us about his mother surely and their relationship
Speaker 6: from what you could find.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, he was born in California and then the
Speaker 4: family moved to the city in Illinois Morton and his
Speaker 4: parents' divorced when he was young and his father really
Speaker 4: wasn't in his life until he was maybe in high school.
Speaker 4: So he was really a mama's boy. She would do
Speaker 4: anything for him, and he would do anything for her.
Speaker 4: You know, he was a type of kid in high school,
Speaker 4: got in trouble, liked to party, do drugs, involved in burglaries, fights,
Speaker 4: you know, ended up in prison. So you know, he
Speaker 4: didn't have a great upbringing at all, no one really
Speaker 4: there no real male role model anyway.
Speaker 6: And what was from his friends that grew up with them?
Speaker 6: What type of personality other than get in trouble?
Speaker 5: What was he?
Speaker 6: A person that had a lot of friends despite his
Speaker 6: criminal leanings?
Speaker 5: That was he?
Speaker 6: Was he? What kind of personality was he?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 4: He, I mean he had some friends, not a whole lot,
Speaker 4: but he just liked the party. They would go into
Speaker 4: the woods. There was there were various camping sites where
Speaker 4: they would just go and do drugs and drink and
Speaker 4: party and that was pretty much what his life was
Speaker 4: growing up.
Speaker 6: How was he with women? Did he have early relationships
Speaker 6: with girls? What was his what was his relationships with
Speaker 6: women like when he was young?
Speaker 4: And you know, no, I don't. I don't know that.
Speaker 4: I wasn't able to find that out. I tried talking,
Speaker 4: wanted to talk with his mother, but she, you know,
Speaker 4: she called me back and decided not to. So I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't really know about his relationships when he was
Speaker 4: in high school.
Speaker 6: Now you're you're talking about Larry Bright as a young
Speaker 6: man in his twenties, early or you know, late teens. Now,
Speaker 6: what was his personality? Like you said he liked the party,
Speaker 6: but what was his what was his his idea of
Speaker 6: you know, did he go to Did he frequent prostitutes
Speaker 6: at an early age? From all the information you've got, No,
Speaker 6: it doesn't seem.
Speaker 4: Like at an early age. And I'm not exactly sure
Speaker 4: when that started. It probably started maybe in his later
Speaker 4: later twenties. I would think after he was in prison
Speaker 4: for burglary and after he got out of prison. I think,
Speaker 4: I mean, he had a serious, serious relationship several of
Speaker 4: them as a matter of fact, and he was married
Speaker 4: and no children of his own, although one woman told
Speaker 4: him that they had a son, but the son really
Speaker 4: wasn't his and he was devastated to find that out.
Speaker 4: So it's really unclear when when he started, because he
Speaker 4: told so many stories that it was. It just wasn't
Speaker 4: clear what to believe.
Speaker 6: Now, you talked about drug use in partying, and we
Speaker 6: were talking about crack cocaine, So this is this is
Speaker 6: a drug problem much evolved if you're resorting to crack
Speaker 6: cocaine rather than some other drugs. So when from your research,
Speaker 6: when did he seem to be seriously doing crack cocaine
Speaker 6: and around what age and what part what time of
Speaker 6: his life was he doing this?
Speaker 4: Again, I I think I would say it was probably well,
Speaker 4: I think he started that early on. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: they started smoking marijuana and then I think they went
Speaker 4: into cocaine. You know, maybe in his early twenties. He
Speaker 4: was a pretty hardened drug user.
Speaker 6: Now what did he do for employment? What was his
Speaker 6: interest in?
Speaker 4: Well, he did sort of odd jobs. He built barns
Speaker 4: and dismantled barns and did brick work and yard work,
Speaker 4: whatever he could find. No discernible skills that I could determine.
Speaker 6: Now, what was his relationship with his mother and where
Speaker 6: did he live and under what circumstances he win it.
Speaker 4: He lived with his mother throughout most of his life
Speaker 4: except when he was married. They lived at one house
Speaker 4: in Illinois, and then in Peoria, and then they he
Speaker 4: lived in the base, and then when they bought the
Speaker 4: house at which he murdered the women, he was living
Speaker 4: in sort of a makeshift garage type apartment, you know,
Speaker 4: no kitchen, bathroom, one sort of one large room and
Speaker 4: a bathroom, and his mother lived in a larger house
Speaker 4: in the front.
Speaker 6: From your From everything that you've learned in writing this book,
Speaker 6: what was the mother? What was the mother like? What
Speaker 6: was what was her life like?
Speaker 4: Her life wasn't easy. There was there was insinuations that
Speaker 4: at one point in her life she was a prostitute,
Speaker 4: but no one ever proved that, so it's really unclear.
Speaker 4: But she seemed like a hard working, really nice woman
Speaker 4: who had no idea what her son was doing. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it's that she didn't think he
Speaker 4: could do anything wrong, or she just just didn't have
Speaker 4: a clue about what he was doing.
Speaker 6: Now, you said he was married to someone. What was
Speaker 6: that marriage, like, how long did it last? What was
Speaker 6: it characterized by? Did you find out anything about that marriage?
Speaker 4: It wasn't. I don't think it lasted very long. And
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is what There were so many things
Speaker 4: involved that I don't remember everything. But he was abusive
Speaker 4: to the women he was with. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 4: I think one of them was pregnant and he he
Speaker 4: claims he was defending himself, but he hit her and
Speaker 4: and she had to go to the hospital. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: I don't remember if she lost the baby or not,
Speaker 4: but she did, right, So he was an abusive personality,
Speaker 4: so it didn't last very long.
Speaker 6: Now, a lot of stuff starts happening in Peoria. In
Speaker 6: the low track. There is a woman named Linda Fields
Speaker 6: that was found dead on February twenty fourth, two thousand. Now,
Speaker 6: how was she pardon in Wisconsin? In Wisconsin? Okay? Now,
Speaker 6: how was she killed? And what was her relationship to
Speaker 6: Larry Bright?
Speaker 4: And Larry dated her and her body was found She
Speaker 4: had been strangled and her body was dumped under a
Speaker 4: tree near her home on Lake Avenue, and she was
Speaker 4: just wearing a nightgown and her shoes were next to her,
Speaker 4: and Larry coincidentally or not, moved back to Peoria the
Speaker 4: same month her body was found. Now, Larry, in his
Speaker 4: interviews with police, he says he killed her. He said
Speaker 4: he didn't kill her. He said he doesn't remember. He
Speaker 4: said he has visions where he killed her, maybe their dreams.
Speaker 4: He just doesn't know. So her death was never attributed
Speaker 4: to him.
Speaker 6: Now you've getten a little bit ahead. So I just
Speaker 6: wanted to make sure that with this Larry Bright, was
Speaker 6: he a person at least of interest? Did police at
Speaker 6: least question him at that time?
Speaker 4: Not at the time, No, not until he had been
Speaker 4: arrested for the murders in Peoria.
Speaker 6: Okay, Now we'll jump ahead a little bit to March
Speaker 6: twenty first, or March of two thousand and one, or
Speaker 6: March twenty first, two thousand and one. And what occurred
Speaker 6: that day that.
Speaker 4: I think if I remember, it was the day that
Speaker 4: Ken Gibbons heard some dirt bikers yelling something in a
Speaker 4: field and apparently they had seen they had found a
Speaker 4: body of a woman, and that was Wanda Jackson. And
Speaker 4: she was one of the first bodies found. But ultimately
Speaker 4: they could never connect Larry to her murder.
Speaker 6: Right now, you including Bone Crusher talk of serial killer
Speaker 6: Joseph Miller as well as other serial killers. Why include
Speaker 6: Miller and other serial killers and why are they an
Speaker 6: important part of your story?
Speaker 4: Well, Miller had killed women in Chicago, and he had
Speaker 4: been in prison for fifteen years and then got out
Speaker 4: and murdered three or four more women in Peoria in
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety three, nineteen. Yeah, he was found guilty in
Speaker 4: ninety four of murdering three Pura prostitutes, and so police
Speaker 4: were finding bodies of other women but then discovered that
Speaker 4: they were probably connected to him rather than to Larry.
Speaker 4: So you know, they were finding finding bodies. But the
Speaker 4: reason I included other serial killers is because they all
Speaker 4: well I can't say all, but but it's sort of
Speaker 4: a they sort of do similar things and pray on
Speaker 4: similar people.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 4: They pray on the most vulnerable, the people they think
Speaker 4: no one is going to miss, you know, So that's
Speaker 4: sort of why I include them, and also to show
Speaker 4: and Miller. Actually, it was the first time that DNA
Speaker 4: evidence was used in Peoria County to convict a murderer.
Speaker 4: To analyze the DNA in the blood and connected him
Speaker 4: to the women.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it also it also is real evidence that
Speaker 6: it's quite the phenomenon when you can name two or
Speaker 6: three serial killers, or there's suspicion of two or three
Speaker 6: serial killers and one.
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Speaker 6: Hit a small area outside of Chicago. Absolutely, that's incredible.
Speaker 6: You know a lot more prevalent people think okay now.
Speaker 6: On July twenty seven, two thousand and three, Sabrina Pain
Speaker 6: was found. Who was she and how did she die?
Speaker 4: Well? She they they were all African American women and
Speaker 4: she was found in a cornfield in Tremont Township in
Speaker 4: Taswell County. The bodies were disposed of in Peoria and
Speaker 4: Taswell County. And you know, she was she was like
Speaker 4: the other women on the street selling their bodies for drugs.
Speaker 4: I would say most of these women were drug addicts
Speaker 4: more so than prostitutes. They were only into prostitution to
Speaker 4: pay for their drug habits. All they wanted to do
Speaker 4: was get high. And you know, And so she was
Speaker 4: dumped in this cornfield right now.
Speaker 6: Not too many months later, February fifth, two thousand and four,
Speaker 6: another victim is found. And who do police find?
Speaker 4: Barbra Williams, a gentleman who was on the way to
Speaker 4: drive his wife to work, saw the body of a
Speaker 4: woman in the snow, and he went and and called police.
Speaker 4: Is this was this the one? Yeah, she was in
Speaker 4: the snow, she was parstially clothed, her feet were in
Speaker 4: the roadway and when police were called, they they thought
Speaker 4: that maybe she had been dragged from one place to another.
Speaker 6: Now, these women, uh, so far have been strangled.
Speaker 4: Yes, all of them?
Speaker 5: Is there so far?
Speaker 6: Is there anything that the killer left is in terms
Speaker 6: of how we strangled them? Is there any evidence of
Speaker 6: is there any similarity so far with any of these
Speaker 6: victims other than their black prostitutes from the low Track.
Speaker 4: No No Now.
Speaker 6: Two weeks later, incredibly, Frederica Brown is discovered and who
Speaker 6: is she and how is she discovered?
Speaker 4: They found her again lying in the snow in Peoria County,
Speaker 4: but a man driving an all terrain vehicle found her
Speaker 4: near Hannah City and she had been strangled. She was
Speaker 4: dumped about thirty feet from the roadway. She was wearing
Speaker 4: a coat and jeans and a shirt and they didn't
Speaker 4: they they weren't sure if she had been walking in
Speaker 4: the area, but she had been there for a number
Speaker 4: of months. They thought she was there for a while,
Speaker 4: and she had lived with her boyfriend who was also
Speaker 4: addicted to drugs, and she had three children who were
Speaker 4: in foster care. And you know, another person with a
Speaker 4: hard life. She'd been arrested for prostitution, battery, robbery and
Speaker 4: another woman ultimately, like Wanda Jackson. Did we get to
Speaker 4: warn to Jackson. I'm sorry, but Larry was not connected
Speaker 4: to this. They couldn't connect him. Police think ultimately they
Speaker 4: think he murdered her, but he never confessed to her.
Speaker 4: He never confessed to two of the women. So the
Speaker 4: police found ten women over this period of time, but
Speaker 4: Larry only confessed to murdering eight of them.
Speaker 6: Now by this time, you know, we're into February two
Speaker 6: thousand and four, and there's been these a bunch of victims,
Speaker 6: and is what is the what is the press's response?
Speaker 6: Is there? Is it? Is it high profile? What is
Speaker 6: going on in Peoria in terms of the media and
Speaker 6: what's going on with the police. Is this paskporce set
Speaker 6: up yet?
Speaker 4: The task forces? Task force isn't set up yet? You know.
Speaker 4: The obviously the more bodies they find, the more they're
Speaker 4: thinking maybe these are connected. And and I'm sorry, but
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm not I think the media obviously or not.
Speaker 4: I think that they're sort of involved in this. But
Speaker 4: but there's not a lot of media attention. If I
Speaker 4: recall at the moment, they were obviously newspaper articles in
Speaker 4: the Peoria Journal Star, you know, each time a body
Speaker 4: was found, but no one was connecting them yet, right, and.
Speaker 6: The police certainly weren't so right. Okay, So we jumped
Speaker 6: ahead to August twenty second and a woman named Laura
Speaker 6: Lawler is found and who is she and how is
Speaker 6: she found? Is there any is it similar or is
Speaker 6: there some differences.
Speaker 4: Differences Laura. Larry disposed of eight of his victims with
Speaker 4: intact bodies. Four of them, including Laura, he burned and
Speaker 4: so police didn't find her on August twenty second. She
Speaker 4: was reported missing on August twenty second, but police didn't
Speaker 4: find her body because there was nobody to find. Larry
Speaker 4: built a fire in his backyard and burned these women,
Speaker 4: and then after the fire died down, he would take
Speaker 4: what remained of their bones and crush them, hence the
Speaker 4: name bone crusher, and then he would scoop up the
Speaker 4: bone and ash in pails or buckets actually big frosting
Speaker 4: buckets that his mother got when she worked at a
Speaker 4: local supermarket, and disposed of the remains at various places
Speaker 4: around Peoria and Caswell County. He disposed of some of
Speaker 4: the bones in his grandmother's yard, so you know, ultimately
Speaker 4: confessed and said that he strangled her and burned her
Speaker 4: body and then just dumped the remains. So police didn't
Speaker 4: know about her at this point, right, Okay, missing?
Speaker 6: Okay, Now there are some people that come forward and
Speaker 6: very interesting characters so that the police have some idea
Speaker 6: who Larry Bright is because he's not on their radar initially.
Speaker 6: What happens there are some characters Vicky Bomar, there is
Speaker 6: another woman named Tiffany Hughes, who's who's Vicky Bomar.
Speaker 4: By the way, Vicky Baumar was a woman. She's ultimately
Speaker 4: the woman who testified against Larry at At in court
Speaker 4: at a hearing and and they got an indictment. He
Speaker 4: kidnapped her, raped her, took her back to his house,
Speaker 4: probably would have done to her what he did to
Speaker 4: the rest of them, murdered her. But she locked herself
Speaker 4: in the bathroom and he tried, he tried to get
Speaker 4: her out, and finally he said, if you just come out,
Speaker 4: I'll take you home. And she had didn't have much choice. Now,
Speaker 4: what it seemed was when the women, the women who
Speaker 4: fought the hardest, he let go. For whatever reason he
Speaker 4: you know, maybe it's just I don't know. I can't
Speaker 4: get into his head. But she got away and she
Speaker 4: he said, or right, I'll take you back. But when
Speaker 4: they went, when they were walking to his truck, she
Speaker 4: saw a neighbor of his and she ran over to
Speaker 4: the woman and said, you know, he just tried to
Speaker 4: rape me. He wanted to kill me. And the woman said,
Speaker 4: let me call the police, and she said, no, just
Speaker 4: take me home. And so Vicky, she didn't tell anybody right,
Speaker 4: didn't go to the police. But someone but after all
Speaker 4: these murders started happening, someone went to the Tiffany went
Speaker 4: to the police. At well, Tiffany went to the police
Speaker 4: and said that she another woman she also had been
Speaker 4: raped and kidnapped by Larry. And then someone went to
Speaker 4: the police and said, you know, maybe you should talk
Speaker 4: to Vicky Boemar because she told me the same thing
Speaker 4: happened right now.
Speaker 6: Who's Tiffany Hughes.
Speaker 4: Tiffany Hughes was another woman who was taken by Larry
Speaker 4: and her story appeared in the Peoria Journal Star, and so,
Speaker 4: you know, she said, I was kidnapped by this guy,
Speaker 4: you know, he tried to kill me, and so they
Speaker 4: ran her story. And after Vicky Boehmar's friend, I think,
Speaker 4: saw that story, they went to police and said, or
Speaker 4: just hearing more about the murders, the friends said, you know,
Speaker 4: you should talk to Vicky because she said the exact
Speaker 4: same thing, you know, but none of the Vicky didn't
Speaker 4: go to the police initially because she had a warrant
Speaker 4: out for her arrest and so she was afraid, afraid
Speaker 4: to go because she was afraid she would be arrested.
Speaker 6: And in that interim there were other victims. We didn't
Speaker 6: we'll go through some of the other victims, but it
Speaker 6: was Shirley en Trap Carpenter. Yeah, there was Tamara Tammy Walls. Right.
Speaker 6: There is also the everything really seems to get started
Speaker 6: after Linda Neil's discovery and then the task force tried
Speaker 6: to link her death with five other black prostitutes from
Speaker 6: in Tazewell County area. Right, I'll tell us a little
Speaker 6: bit about that task force. I just mentioned it. It's
Speaker 6: after Linda Neil's Audi's discovery. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 6: about the task force, what its purpose is, what they
Speaker 6: think they're going to see, And they do have a
Speaker 6: they are trying to link these murders together, or they
Speaker 6: think they can.
Speaker 4: Well I think I think right, I think that they
Speaker 4: thought at this point that that they they probably were connected.
Speaker 4: So there was a task force that consisted of members
Speaker 4: of the Peoria County Sheriff's Office, the Peoria Police Department,
Speaker 4: in the Taswell County Sheriff's Office, as well as some
Speaker 4: people from the Illinois State Police. And this is all
Speaker 4: they would work on. They got some one thousand tips
Speaker 4: into the hotline and they would rank the tips, you know, serious,
Speaker 4: not so serious, something we should look into. And that's
Speaker 4: all they worked on with these cases. And in fact,
Speaker 4: Larry called in a tip on himself, well, because he
Speaker 4: wanted to stop and knew he couldn't do it on
Speaker 4: his own, and he called and said, you know, I
Speaker 4: think you should look into Larry Bright. He's probably the
Speaker 4: one doing this. And what did do as a result
Speaker 4: of that, Well, well, it was around the same time
Speaker 4: I think that that Vicky had had told them about
Speaker 4: him and she and she picked his photo out of
Speaker 4: a you know, a photo array, and so he was
Speaker 4: already on their radar screen and and they arrested him
Speaker 4: for kidnapping Vicky.
Speaker 6: Now, who were Tyresia and Terracita? And what did they
Speaker 6: say to police?
Speaker 4: Two more women also who were held by Larry and
Speaker 4: raped against their will, and and one of them, as
Speaker 4: a matter of fact, actually it was Tiffany who had
Speaker 4: who had gone with Larry, and and she was with
Speaker 4: Linda Neil and Larry drove by and didn't remember her,
Speaker 4: but she remembered him, and she said to Linda, don't
Speaker 4: go with him. You know he's crazy. But Linda, she's
Speaker 4: not sure if Linda ever did. But the next day
Speaker 4: is when they found her body. So it's it's obvious
Speaker 4: that she did go with him. But the other women
Speaker 4: were also taken by by Larry and and and talked
Speaker 4: to the police. You know, people one person or another
Speaker 4: would say, you know, I think you should talk to
Speaker 4: so and so, or I think you should talk to
Speaker 4: to so and so. I'm sorry, I've just got this
Speaker 4: a little confused. Teresia was was a friend of Brenda Irvings,
Speaker 4: whom we haven't gotten to either. She she was in
Speaker 4: prison and she told she went. She said she wanted
Speaker 4: to talk to police, and she gave them the names
Speaker 4: of people who might be involved with these murders. But
Speaker 4: but they weren't. So I really apologize because it's just
Speaker 4: it's so hard to keep all these straight. But but
Speaker 4: ter Teresida was taken by She was taken by Larry
Speaker 4: when he lived at the house on his first no,
Speaker 4: second house, second house that he went to his to
Speaker 4: his house and and no, I'm sorry again. He took
Speaker 4: her when he was living on McClure Road, not where
Speaker 4: he murdered all the other women, Not where he murdered
Speaker 4: the women. And he brought her to his basement and
Speaker 4: raped her and and then and let her go. He
Speaker 4: was living in his mother's basement at that point. And
Speaker 4: he would tell these women, and he told her too
Speaker 4: that he was a police officer. And so you know,
Speaker 4: he told him not to go to police, go to
Speaker 4: the police, because no one would believe them because he
Speaker 4: was a cop, right, no one would believe what they
Speaker 4: had to say.
Speaker 6: Now, as a result of speaking with all these women,
Speaker 6: Teresa Teresia and Terracita, Vicki Bomar and Tiffany Hughes and
Speaker 6: other people as well as some of Larry Bright's friends
Speaker 6: from the past, what happens on November eleventh? And what
Speaker 6: do they try to charge Larry Bright with? Initially, they well.
Speaker 4: They charged him with kidnapping Vicky Boemar. That's how they
Speaker 4: first arrested him.
Speaker 6: Was also step.
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Speaker 1: Family vdW group, No perch, just necessary. I believe were
Speaker 1: privateed by loss he terms and conditions eighteen less.
Speaker 6: So some drug charges, possession of a controlled substance.
Speaker 4: That's I'm sure, I just don't remember. I'm sorry, but yes.
Speaker 4: But but they arrested him mainly for her, you know,
Speaker 4: for kidnapping her, and then when they searched his house
Speaker 4: they found drugs.
Speaker 6: I see. Okay. Now, now the thing is is that
Speaker 6: they're searching his house and but they are trying to
Speaker 6: question Larry Bright. Now how does he does he cooperate?
Speaker 6: What is his demeanor? How does how does Larry Bright
Speaker 6: respond to being picked up and arrested for anything?
Speaker 4: He was calm, He was glad. I really do think
Speaker 4: he was glad. He wanted it over. He couldn't stop
Speaker 4: doing it himself. I mean, all his his interviews with police.
Speaker 4: I looked at all the tapes, the DBDs. He was
Speaker 4: joking with them, you know, laughing like they were friends.
Speaker 4: I think he was just relieved that it was over.
Speaker 6: Now, what does what does AIDS have to do with
Speaker 6: this story?
Speaker 4: Well, Larry thought he had AIDS. He he was involved
Speaker 4: in a relationship with a former prostitute who had AIDS
Speaker 4: and he thought that she had given him AIDS. And
Speaker 4: and there was speculation that he was murdering these other
Speaker 4: women to sort of in revenge for what she did
Speaker 4: to him. Right, I'm not sure that was true. But
Speaker 4: it turns out he did not have AIDS. He was
Speaker 4: tested finally when he had when he was arrested, and
Speaker 4: he did not have AIDS at all. So did he
Speaker 4: believe he did? I think he believed he did. But
Speaker 4: you know, and he never said he was murdering them
Speaker 4: because this woman, Ernestine had given him AIDS. That was
Speaker 4: just pure speculation.
Speaker 6: I see. Now, how does he like again? How does
Speaker 6: he does he cooperate or not cooperate with cooperates?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did it, And I'll take you to the
Speaker 4: bodies and the remains, not the bodies they had the
Speaker 4: four bodies. I'll take you to the remains. And so
Speaker 4: you know, they drove around with them. They stopped at
Speaker 4: McDonald's or burger king and got him lunch, you know,
Speaker 4: fries and burghers, and and they he drove them to
Speaker 4: all the sites. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 6: Sorry. Part of the agreement was though, that that they
Speaker 6: not search his mother's grounds, and the police cooperated.
Speaker 4: Well, he's no, not so much the mother's ground. He
Speaker 4: didn't care about anything else except this fish pond that
Speaker 4: he had built for her. It was an elaborate fish
Speaker 4: pond and it had really expensive i think coy in it.
Speaker 4: And he was so concerned, you know, he said, don't
Speaker 4: don't well, don't dig up the pond please, you know,
Speaker 4: she didn't know anything about this. There's nothing there. And
Speaker 4: and so they said, fine, they wouldn't dig it up.
Speaker 4: Ultimately they had to, and they they brought the fish
Speaker 4: to some wildlife preserve or something, because he was really
Speaker 4: worried about about the fish.
Speaker 6: Sure, that's that's nice of them, compassionate of them, you know,
Speaker 6: after all. So so he's cooperative, he doesn't he doesn't
Speaker 6: ask for a lawyer right away, or he's he's he wants.
Speaker 4: To tell the other and she got him a lawyer,
Speaker 4: but Larry really didn't do The lawyer said, don't talk.
Speaker 4: But Larry would you know, Larry would send notes from
Speaker 4: jail to the cops and say I want to talk
Speaker 4: and they said, but lawyer says not to and he said,
Speaker 4: I don't care, and he would just sign away his
Speaker 4: rights and talk to them, tell them everything they wanted
Speaker 4: to know.
Speaker 6: So what did he what did he all and what
Speaker 6: did it all entail? What did he tell police? What's
Speaker 6: the details that he gave, what's the motive he gave,
Speaker 6: what are the what did he tell police in the end?
Speaker 6: And how many murders did he confess to?
Speaker 4: Okay, well, he said it all. It all went back
Speaker 4: to the crack cocaine. And after a while he started
Speaker 4: hearing voices when he wasn't When he wasn't smoking the crack,
Speaker 4: he was fine. But once he did that, he'd hear
Speaker 4: the voices that said kill, kill. And initially, you know,
Speaker 4: he would just go out and not he wouldn't go
Speaker 4: out looking for anyone. He would just pick someone up,
Speaker 4: and then the voices would say killed. But then after
Speaker 4: a while he did what he he went hunting, and
Speaker 4: he knew from the outset that he was going to
Speaker 4: get someone and murder someone. And he just said it
Speaker 4: was the voices and he couldn't stop the voices, and
Speaker 4: that's why, but he wanted it.
Speaker 6: To stop, Okay, And how many does he admit? How
Speaker 6: many he.
Speaker 4: What he admitted to and what he was ultimately convicted
Speaker 4: of are two different things. He also admitted to murdering
Speaker 4: two or three women in other parts of the country.
Speaker 4: He he got a settlement. He heard his back at work,
Speaker 4: and he got like a ten or fifteen thousand dollars settlement,
Speaker 4: and he went on a cross country trip and he
Speaker 4: went to Arizona and some place I don't remember where
Speaker 4: exactly where his father's family had come from. His father
Speaker 4: had since passed away from cancer. And he claimed he
Speaker 4: murdered women in Arizona and a woman in whatever state
Speaker 4: it was, I just don't remember, and another one I think,
Speaker 4: either in Oregon or Washington. But the police could never
Speaker 4: you know, they can't. The police in Peoria contacted the
Speaker 4: police and those other states, but they could never find
Speaker 4: anything to connect Larry to anything. So I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, was he did he make it up? Did
Speaker 4: he really do it? It's very unclear. And as I said,
Speaker 4: the sheriff thinks that Wanda Jackson and Frederica Brown died
Speaker 4: at the hands of Larry Bright. But Larry only confessed
Speaker 4: to eight women, not those two. And he kept say
Speaker 4: you know. They kept saying, well, you know, or he
Speaker 4: kept saying, if I murdered them, why wouldn't I tell you.
Speaker 4: They also they're not sure about Linda Fields, as I said,
Speaker 4: because he just kept saying, Oh, I had a dream
Speaker 4: I did it. I didn't do it. But they think
Speaker 4: he didn't confess to her because he would have had
Speaker 4: to have gone to He was afraid of going to
Speaker 4: Wisconsin because he didn't want to be tried there. I'm
Speaker 4: not sure if they would have sought the death penalty
Speaker 4: there or it was going to be far from his mother.
Speaker 4: And the police kept telling him, look, we have eight
Speaker 4: they have won. You're going to be here, so don't
Speaker 4: worry about it. But he never he never confessed ultimately
Speaker 4: to murder her. He said, yeah, I think I did. No,
Speaker 4: I didn't. I'm not sure. So he never really confessed.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 6: He so he admits they ate, right, and then how
Speaker 6: does how does the judicial system proceed from there?
Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple before we before we go to
Speaker 4: the judicial system that there's an interesting as I mentioned,
Speaker 4: he burned eight bodies and dumped for intact, which is
Speaker 4: is very unusual. Serial killers usually do one thing. They usually,
Speaker 4: you know, just kill and dispose of they're victims the
Speaker 4: same way. And so police thought that Larry had some
Speaker 4: kind of there was some strange reason behind this, but
Speaker 4: in Larry's mind, it was all very logical. So the
Speaker 4: police said, why did you not burn these four women?
Speaker 4: And he said, because my mother was having company, my
Speaker 4: grandmother was coming over, and I couldn't light the fire,
Speaker 4: so it was just a matter of convenience, you know.
Speaker 4: He that he burned the bodies. But it was also
Speaker 4: unusual that nobody smelled anything the neighborhood, you know, his
Speaker 4: mother said. They asked his mother and she said, yes,
Speaker 4: you know, I smelled something strange, but he told me
Speaker 4: it was plastic, you know, and he was always burning
Speaker 4: leaves or brushes, so no one in the neighborhood thought
Speaker 4: anything of it either.
Speaker 6: Incredible, so I'm sorry. So there was a few areas,
Speaker 6: you say, There was a one burn area, and then
Speaker 6: there was where he dumped the ashes was by the
Speaker 6: kickapoo coumera.
Speaker 4: He dumped them in various places, you know, As I said,
Speaker 4: someone his grandmother's yard, in his grandmother's yard, places that
Speaker 4: he had gone to as a child, you know, when
Speaker 4: he was younger, when he partied as a teenager, places
Speaker 4: that he knew well. And he you know, he would
Speaker 4: drive his car and then you know, pack the car
Speaker 4: and take these buckets and and just just dump the
Speaker 4: remains the way. And then in one place he threw
Speaker 4: the buckets in the stream.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 4: There was really no rhyme, no reason to where he
Speaker 4: decided to dump them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it must have been a horrific job for
Speaker 6: the anthropologist and the forensic people to go through the regard.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it was. And the only they were
Speaker 4: only able to connect a jaw bone. I think it
Speaker 4: was to Barbara Williams. Actually no, I think it was
Speaker 4: Tammy Walls. She had had had surgery and so that's
Speaker 4: that was the biggest piece of bone that they found.
Speaker 4: I mean, just ash, you know, literally the bone. There
Speaker 4: was no way they could identify any of the other
Speaker 4: bones through DNA or or otherwise.
Speaker 6: Now there was a there was initially that that Larry
Speaker 6: Bright wanted a deal, wanted he wanted to he wonderfully guilty,
Speaker 6: but he also wanted some kind of deal.
Speaker 4: Well, no, he wanted to plead guilty and the judge
Speaker 4: wouldn't let him. He said, I just want to say
Speaker 4: I did this. He wanted the death penalty off the table,
Speaker 4: but that wasn't the reason that he couldn't plead guilty.
Speaker 4: The judge wouldn't let him because he wanted to make
Speaker 4: sure he could that he conferred with his attorney. He
Speaker 4: wanted to make sure he got the right advice. He
Speaker 4: tried twice to plead guilty and the judge wouldn't accept
Speaker 4: his plea right, and then there was talk about a trial.
Speaker 4: You know, he decided he was going to have a trial,
Speaker 4: and then ultimately he decided he wanted to spare his
Speaker 4: mother all that pain, so he you know, he said,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to plead guilty again. And the
Speaker 4: DA talked to the families and said, you know, he
Speaker 4: wants the death penalty off the table. He'll plead guilty.
Speaker 4: Are you willing to go along with that? And they were,
Speaker 4: you know, they said we want him punished and life
Speaker 4: in prison, you know, was okay with them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I thought it was remarkable that the district attorney actually
Speaker 6: was seriously considering what the family wanted in this respect,
Speaker 6: I thought that was pretty admirable, right, kind of unusual,
Speaker 6: so absolutely incredible. So so basically the trial wasn't wasn't
Speaker 6: much because it's just there.
Speaker 4: Was no trial. He just pleaded guilty and and the
Speaker 4: DA just went through you know, ea hearing.
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, so so, and what was the attendance like
Speaker 6: at the trial that some of the victim's family show up?
Speaker 4: Some of them did right at the hearing or the
Speaker 4: set hearing, sure, right, yeah, yeah, some some showed up.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure all of them did. I couldn't. It
Speaker 4: was hard to track them down. I talked to a
Speaker 4: couple of families, but I dialed more disconnected numbers than
Speaker 4: I think I've dialed in my whole life. You know,
Speaker 4: it was just the kind you know, not all their
Speaker 4: families lived the kind of life the women did. But
Speaker 4: you know, they're they're they're not well off people. They
Speaker 4: move a lot, they don't have phones, and it was
Speaker 4: really hard to get in touch with all of them.
Speaker 4: I wanted to, you know, and I also wanted to
Speaker 4: talk to Larry's mother, but she she just you know,
Speaker 4: she said, let me think about it, and and she
Speaker 4: you know, she just she just couldn't. I want to.
Speaker 4: I want to say something. And I'm not sure if
Speaker 4: you or your listeners will think there's something wrong with
Speaker 4: me the saying. But I saw all the the all
Speaker 4: his tapes when he confessed, and and and in the beginning,
Speaker 4: he said to the police, I want to make I
Speaker 4: want to make a tape for my mother. I want
Speaker 4: to talk to her and I do that. And they said, yes,
Speaker 4: they said, but anything you say can be used against you.
Speaker 4: And he said that's fine. And so they went out
Speaker 4: of the room and he made this tape. And I
Speaker 4: have to tell you of this was my fourth book.
Speaker 4: He's the fourth murderer that I've written about, and I
Speaker 4: truly believe that he was remorseful. He was the only
Speaker 4: one of the four murders that I've written about that
Speaker 4: I think showed an ounce of remorse. I think he
Speaker 4: was truly sorry. And I actually felt myself responding to
Speaker 4: him in some odd way, you know, I thought this,
Speaker 4: he's deep down. I think he was a really nice guy.
Speaker 4: As strange as that sounds. He murdered eight women, but
Speaker 4: he wasn't. I don't he didn't want to do it.
Speaker 4: I really don't think he wanted to do it, and
Speaker 4: I and it's drugs. It really was the drugs. I believe.
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know if I can agree with you,
Speaker 6: but you were you were there, so you you and
Speaker 6: you know the thing is, I know what you're saying,
Speaker 6: because I think this is an unusual case because he
Speaker 6: really did want to unburden himself and he didn't. He
Speaker 6: wasn't didn't seem like a publicity hound with this no,
Speaker 6: and he you know, he when you're trying to plead
Speaker 6: guilty and you're getting advice, I mean, it does show
Speaker 6: something because it's sure certainly is unusual for even the
Speaker 6: most guilty people to do what he was willing to
Speaker 6: do so right, I don't know about voices in the head,
Speaker 6: but something compelled him to do what he did over
Speaker 6: and over again.
Speaker 4: But I believe but he was truly sorry. None of
Speaker 4: the three, the other three that I've written about, one
Speaker 4: of whom was also a serial killer, two which was
Speaker 4: spouse on spouse murder, I don't. I don't think any
Speaker 4: of them were sorry. They were sorry they got caught,
Speaker 4: but they were not sorry for what they did. I
Speaker 4: think he really was sorry. I mean, I don't know what,
Speaker 4: that doesn't do much good for anyone, but I could
Speaker 4: feel that from him.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's well, I mean, I don't know blame it
Speaker 6: on the drugs, but certainly, certainly he was on those drugs,
Speaker 6: and certainly drugs have a profound effect on certain people.
Speaker 6: You know, he didn't come forward necessarily, but there is
Speaker 6: some merit to cooperating with police, at least for the victims, showing,
Speaker 6: you know, trying to show them where the disposal sites were.
Speaker 6: Didn't have to do that if he was pure evil.
Speaker 4: So right, and as I mentioned, he did call in
Speaker 4: a tip on himself. Yeah, he could couldn't come forward
Speaker 4: because he was really he didn't want to hurt his mother.
Speaker 4: That was you know, he felt she didn't deserve a
Speaker 4: son like him, and he didn't want to cause her
Speaker 4: any pain, and he thought that that was a way
Speaker 4: to do it. But he was sorry. He was sorry
Speaker 4: for murdering the women. He was sorry to their families,
Speaker 4: he was sorry that she had to live with what
Speaker 4: he did. He really was sorry.
Speaker 6: And you saw that. And see the thing is, if
Speaker 6: you saw it later on as one thing, it could
Speaker 6: be possibly contrived. But if you saw it in the confession,
Speaker 6: to police itself.
Speaker 4: In the and in the beginning in one of his
Speaker 4: first confessions, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely right. It wasn't after
Speaker 4: it wasn't contrived, and it was just him and the
Speaker 4: video camera, and he was talking to his mother and
Speaker 4: it was as if she was sitting across from him,
Speaker 4: and and and he was sobbing. I mean, and you know,
Speaker 4: none of it was contrived. He was truly, truly sorry.
Speaker 4: And I know your listeners will probably think, you know,
Speaker 4: I should be in a looney bin or something. But
Speaker 4: I felt that motion from him, you know, I knew,
Speaker 4: I knew that deep down, this man just was so
Speaker 4: sorry for the pain he caused everyone, you know what.
Speaker 6: I thought it was another interesting aspect of this story.
Speaker 6: And I guess it's just a bit of a commentary.
Speaker 6: But it's the last few stories that I've talked about
Speaker 6: on my program, starting with the Stevie Cameron and on
Speaker 6: the Farm about the Robert Picton in British Columbia. It's
Speaker 6: almost the same story of three or four of the
Speaker 6: last stories, in that you have a sub sect section
Speaker 6: of people that are the most vulnerable, the prostitute that
Speaker 6: is plying their trade on the street. These were all
Speaker 6: these weren't young women. These were older women, which I
Speaker 6: found interesting as well. But they're they're increasingly even more
Speaker 6: vulnerable among this group of people because they're willing to
Speaker 6: go into a car for drugs. They have this intense
Speaker 6: need for the drug and it's usually crack or something
Speaker 6: like that, and so they'll take even more increasing risks.
Speaker 6: And people always wonder, well, how did they rack up
Speaker 6: this these these big numbers? If these women were disappearing,
Speaker 6: and it's some of their friends and co workers, and
Speaker 6: and really what it was is that people are that desperate.
Speaker 4: Right and and and he and he knew that actually
Speaker 4: because he would say to them. He wouldn't say, you know,
Speaker 4: let's have sex or whatever. He would say, do you
Speaker 4: want to get high? And they did, and that's all
Speaker 4: they wanted to do. Yeah, And you know, I mean,
Speaker 4: women were disappearing, but it didn't matter to them. The
Speaker 4: need to get high was so great that that they
Speaker 4: had to do it. They couldn't stop.
Speaker 6: Right now, Larry Bright, what what was his sentence? What
Speaker 6: did he receive?
Speaker 4: So he's life in prison, never getting.
Speaker 6: Out, He's never going to get out, and his appeals
Speaker 6: have been exhausted.
Speaker 4: He no that was part of it. There were no appeals,
Speaker 4: that's right, right, that was part of the part of
Speaker 4: the deal.
Speaker 6: I thought that was interesting too. Just again save some
Speaker 6: people because you'd really it felt like you get any closure.
Speaker 6: That's that's a misnomer. But I mean for appeal to
Speaker 6: just hang around and hang around. I know the case
Speaker 6: I was just involved with. The appeal just finished. It's
Speaker 6: you know, seven and a half years later.
Speaker 4: So well, my first book in nineteen ninety eight, the
Speaker 4: murder happened. His appeals just ended like a month ago.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I mean, and.
Speaker 4: They're actually there may be one more. I don't know.
Speaker 4: You're right, but he didn't he didn't want to appeal.
Speaker 4: He you know, he just said no, I you know,
Speaker 4: I just want this over. I did it. I want
Speaker 4: to plead guilty. I just want it over.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Incredible. And was there any real response from them?
Speaker 6: I know the mother and Larry were very close. Did
Speaker 6: she do some media? Is there any update on her?
Speaker 6: Did she?
Speaker 4: I don't, I don't know, you know, she did. She
Speaker 4: talked to the media after, and you know, people were
Speaker 4: following her when she was going to visit him. I
Speaker 4: think I think it was hard on her, you know,
Speaker 4: and and I felt really badly for her when I
Speaker 4: talked to her. You know, she asked me what the
Speaker 4: title of my book was going to be, and I,
Speaker 4: you know, I was like horrifi that I actually had
Speaker 4: to tell her. You know, she she didn't do anything.
Speaker 4: You know, she thought she was raising her kids the
Speaker 4: right way, but you know, she had no control over
Speaker 4: what happened, so it wasn't it wasn't easy for her obviously.
Speaker 6: What you know, you bring up an interesting, you know point,
Speaker 6: the conversation you had with his mother. What did she
Speaker 6: say when you know, it's almost like the Capoti moment,
Speaker 6: when you know, the the inmate finds out what this
Speaker 6: with the story with the title of the book is called,
Speaker 6: you know, in cold Blood now bone Crusher. Obviously, there's
Speaker 6: not much, doesn't seem to be any seemingly seeming sympathy
Speaker 6: for her son. What did she say? How did she
Speaker 6: didn't say a word?
Speaker 4: She didn't say a word about it. You know, she
Speaker 4: just asked me what I was going to call it?
Speaker 4: And I hesitated a long while and then just told her.
Speaker 4: She didn't say anything. But I have to tell you,
Speaker 4: I said to her, I think he must have been
Speaker 4: a good guy, and she said he was, you know,
Speaker 4: and there wasn't much else I could say to her.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's always the classic, the the mother is still
Speaker 6: visiting the killer's son in prison, or at least keeping course.
Speaker 6: It's amazing the mother's you know, loyalty and love never ends,
Speaker 6: you know, right for most of these people anyway, No, incredible,
Speaker 6: of all the serial killer stories that I've covered, it's
Speaker 6: incredible how many families still support their brothers and sisters
Speaker 6: and people accused of these who are in this crime.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: Incredible. So what are you working on now we we
Speaker 6: were talking earlier.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've just started my fifth book. It's called The
Speaker 4: Killer Debutante. It's about a woman named Kelly Cannon from
Speaker 4: Nashville who was a debutante growing up, you know, cheerleader, debutante.
Speaker 4: She had gone to medical school. She married a doctor
Speaker 4: and he was divorcing her and threatening to take the kids,
Speaker 4: and she wasn't going to let that happen. So she
Speaker 4: strangled him with the court of a cell phone charger
Speaker 4: and put they were separated at this point, and dragged
Speaker 4: his body into a closet and put this big dresser
Speaker 4: in front of it and left it for the poor
Speaker 4: maid to find two days later.
Speaker 6: Wow, and when do you when's the rival date for
Speaker 6: this book? Oh?
Speaker 4: Probably they usually it's usually like every two years. I've
Speaker 4: just started this one, so I would say a year
Speaker 4: and a half to two years that one will be out.
Speaker 6: Right now, Well, and where are you located in America?
Speaker 4: I'm just outside Boston, about thirteen miles west of Boston.
Speaker 6: And have you in your books have you covered anything
Speaker 6: from that area?
Speaker 4: Yeah? My first book. As I was mentioning that the
Speaker 4: person whose appeal just ended was a guy, a doctor,
Speaker 4: world renowned alogist, Dirk grinded her and he murdered his
Speaker 4: wife in a in a park near their home. He
Speaker 4: had sort of this seedy life. He was visiting prostitutes
Speaker 4: and having an online sex life, and apparently she found
Speaker 4: out and was going to divorce him, that's the theory,
Speaker 4: and so he murdered her, and it claims he didn't,
Speaker 4: but the evidence is just absolutely convincing that he was guilty.
Speaker 4: So he I think, you know, one of the last
Speaker 4: of his appeals anyway, was he just denied a new
Speaker 4: trial about a month ago.
Speaker 6: Right now, just for our audience, sometimes curious that some
Speaker 6: people have asked me to, you know, ask this question,
Speaker 6: how did you get involved in true crime in the
Speaker 6: first place.
Speaker 4: I used to read and rule all the time, all right,
Speaker 4: and I'm a writer. I'm a reporter. I'm a writer.
Speaker 4: I've been a reporter since the late eighties. And one
Speaker 4: day I said, I can do that. And so I
Speaker 4: found that case I was just telling you about. I
Speaker 4: put together a proposal, I found an agent and she
Speaker 4: found my publisher. And this all happened in a month. Wow,
Speaker 4: And I hadn't written a word. I had something else
Speaker 4: I could show the publisher, and so we signed a contract.
Speaker 4: And then I went, oh my god, I have to
Speaker 4: write a book. And so you know, and I've been
Speaker 4: with them ever since, and this is you know, now
Speaker 4: I'm starting my fifth book.
Speaker 6: So that was still a pinnacle Kensington exactly. Yep, right,
Speaker 6: oh yeah, great, great, great company. I've seen the company
Speaker 6: really rise in the last few years as well. In
Speaker 6: the last about five years. You see, Saint Martin's Press
Speaker 6: was really big, and you know, there's a five majors,
Speaker 6: and then Kensington comes along and is competing with everybody.
Speaker 6: Really is is a close number two. I see in
Speaker 6: the bookstores. It's all Kensington, right, some of the really
Speaker 6: good authors are now getting published with them, and they're
Speaker 6: covering some of the best stories. And I really like,
Speaker 6: you know, their criteria, you know, I mean two crime
Speaker 6: writers want to true crime readers want to read the
Speaker 6: most sensational story. So that's what Kensington does.
Speaker 4: So absolutely, you know, it's interesting that the criteria you know,
Speaker 4: they sent me, you know, it has to be only
Speaker 4: certain parts of the country, you know, and it just
Speaker 4: and like serial killers, teenage murderers, kids you kill. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 6: Well there's a you know people what Like I asked
Speaker 6: the question once. I said, you know, if you really
Speaker 6: looked at the crimes that were in cold Blood, you know,
Speaker 6: the crimes itself, especially these days, wouldn't it wouldn't be
Speaker 6: that high profile, just just just a you know, an
Speaker 6: you know, escalation of crime in general. That it's not
Speaker 6: like it's not an interesting story, but it is a
Speaker 6: less shocking story. Stuff like that goes on almost every
Speaker 6: day now.
Speaker 4: Right, exactly right. But I think it was the way
Speaker 4: Capodi wrote it. It was sort of a I mean,
Speaker 4: he fictionalized it a lot, so I think it was
Speaker 4: his writing style that propelled that book as well.
Speaker 6: Well, I think you know, what would happen is is
Speaker 6: something that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 6: You can imagine that if you had a publisher that
Speaker 6: was willing to give you enough money to hire a
Speaker 6: really good lawyer to sustain the person's life now that
Speaker 6: they had the death penalty that they were gonna they
Speaker 6: were gonna hang. So he had enough money from the publisher,
Speaker 6: and he was such an esteemed author that the publisher
Speaker 6: paid for the legal representation, and then also he paid
Speaker 6: the warden so he could be there almost every day,
Speaker 6: so he had unprecedented access a right. Plus plus he
Speaker 6: paid for the guy's lawyer so that he would stay
Speaker 6: alive and he could befriend him in a way that
Speaker 6: you and I could never do. And then he fictionalized everything.
Speaker 6: So you know, it's it's I think it's a good
Speaker 6: lesson in marketing. I mean, you know, he how's a
Speaker 6: true crime with some of the devices that he did.
Speaker 6: It's a great book, of course, but you know he
Speaker 6: he pent the rules and no one else got to
Speaker 6: do the same, so right.
Speaker 4: And I don't think that would ever happen.
Speaker 6: Now, No, No, I think you have to take notes
Speaker 6: now and he was ninety seven percent recollection rate. Nobody's
Speaker 6: going to take your word on that, right, but at least,
Speaker 6: you know, at least it got true crime at that time,
Speaker 6: like in sixty five, I guess a popular genre all
Speaker 6: of a sudden, so you can you know, we can
Speaker 6: always thank.
Speaker 4: Them for that. That's absolutely right.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, I want to thank you very much Linda
Speaker 6: for coming on my program once again. Another great book
Speaker 6: and another great interview. We've been talking about your latest,
Speaker 6: uh true crime classic soon to be classic, I'm sure,
Speaker 6: bone Crusher. And I just want to tell our audience
Speaker 6: you've been listening to Linda rosen Krantz and her book,
Speaker 6: Bone Crusher. Go out and get it. He destroyed their
Speaker 6: lives then their bodies, Bone Crusher. Thank you very much, Linda,
Speaker 6: have yourself the good evening, you too, bye, Thank you,
Speaker 6: thank you, bye bye. You've been listening to program True Murder,
Speaker 6: the most shocking killers in true crime history and the
Speaker 6: authors that have written about them, with your host Dan Zepaski,
Speaker 6: have a good evening,