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Speaker 3: You are now listening to true Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 3: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them. Geese Bundy, Dahmer, The night Stalker VTK
Speaker 3: every week another fascinating author talking about the most shockolant
Speaker 3: and infamous killers in true crime history, True Murder with
Speaker 3: your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 5: Good Evening. This is your host Dan Supanski for the
Speaker 5: program True Murderer, the most shocking killers in true crime
Speaker 5: history and the authors that have written about them. With
Speaker 5: them the last six minutes is the true account of
Speaker 5: the random and violent murder of sixteen year old Matthew
Speaker 5: Martin Martin and his family's journey through the Canadian criminal
Speaker 5: justice system. On July second, two thousand and five, Matthew Martin's,
Speaker 5: while waiting near a skytrain station for a friend, was
Speaker 5: approached by a woman named Katherine Quinn. Quinn wanted Matthew's
Speaker 5: crucifix and jumped in trying to get it from him.
Speaker 5: In the scuffle, she was scratched by something and began
Speaker 5: screaming to her friends and her boyfriend Robert Fororeslen that
Speaker 5: she had been stabbed by Matthew. Matthew rand but was
Speaker 5: chased in a corner at the bottom of the escalators,
Speaker 5: robbing and then beating and stomping him to death. Forcelaind
Speaker 5: had even slit Matthew's throat. Quinn and Portland were arrested,
Speaker 5: charged her, and sentenced for secondary murder. Now the family
Speaker 5: faced the killer's appeals and the threat of another trial.
Speaker 5: As a result of family's ordeal, Matthew's mother, Sandra founded
Speaker 5: FACT Families Against Crime and Trauma, working to help others
Speaker 5: who have lost a loved one to a violent crime.
Speaker 5: She has witness first hand the imbalance in the Canadian
Speaker 5: justice system and believe it's time the season the rights
Speaker 5: of victims supersede those of the offenders. The last six minutes,
Speaker 5: Sandra Martin's Toner my special guest. Thank you very much,
Speaker 5: sand Martinstner for agreeing to this interview, and welcome to
Speaker 5: the program.
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me, Dan, thank you.
Speaker 5: Very much for coming on in the program discussing on
Speaker 5: this very incredible book.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I want to start right at the very beginning, I
Speaker 5: think to be fair and talk about Matthew and his life.
Speaker 5: Go right back to the beginning, and I guess we'll
Speaker 5: just talk about right up to the faithful day itself.
Speaker 5: But let's start at the beginning and talk about Matthew
Speaker 5: in his life.
Speaker 4: Sure, sure, Matthew, of course was an amazing child. I
Speaker 4: was truly, truly blessed for my first child. I was
Speaker 4: a teen mom. I was seventeen years old when I
Speaker 4: gave birth to Matthew, and I knew then the day
Speaker 4: that he was born and placed in my arms, that
Speaker 4: there was nothing I'd rather be doing than trying to
Speaker 4: secure a wonderful, happy life for myself and my child,
Speaker 4: and I did so. Matthew and I because of my age,
Speaker 4: we became best friends. Not only mother and son, but
Speaker 4: we were great friends. We loved to be around each other.
Speaker 4: He was kind hearted, just a well rounded young man
Speaker 4: who loved to help others in the community. He was
Speaker 4: well known by the younger children. As he was thirteen
Speaker 4: and fourteen, he'd go to the Boys and Girls club
Speaker 4: in our community and teach the kids how to break
Speaker 4: dance or.
Speaker 6: He loved to sing.
Speaker 4: So he was just an amazing and amazing child, and
Speaker 4: he just had he aspired for so much in life.
Speaker 4: And I think that's what is incredibly tragic with with
Speaker 4: what you know happened to him, is that he could
Speaker 4: he would have been a very contributing member of society.
Speaker 4: So basically, you know what happened was it was the
Speaker 4: Canada Day Long weekend here in Vancouver, BC, and Matthew
Speaker 4: and his friends had decided to go and watch the
Speaker 4: fireworks that evening, and you know, his father and I
Speaker 4: really didn't think anything of it, being that you know,
Speaker 4: Matthew was very responsible.
Speaker 6: He had a cell.
Speaker 4: Phone, he'd never given his data, and I any reason
Speaker 4: whatsoever to you know, have an issue with this. So
Speaker 4: off he went with his friends that evening to watch
Speaker 4: the fireworks, and it had been discussed prior that he
Speaker 4: would actually spend the night at his friend's house in Surrey, BC.
Speaker 4: We live in Vancouver, so we had no problem with that.
Speaker 4: We knew the Wheatons quite well for a few years
Speaker 4: and they had moved from Vancouver to Surrey, and you know,
Speaker 4: we were okay with that. So after the fireworks, I
Speaker 4: guess the boys made their way back to David's house,
Speaker 4: to the Wheaton's house, and they were playing some video games,
Speaker 4: and Matthew got a phone call from a friend from
Speaker 4: Vancouver saying that she was lost trying to find them.
Speaker 4: I guess she was going to come hang out and
Speaker 4: play games with the boys, And so Matthew went walking
Speaker 4: to go and meet up with this young lady, and
Speaker 4: on his way there, he happened to pass in front
Speaker 4: of Catherine Quinn and Robert Forsland's home, and there was
Speaker 4: a statement you made as Matthew was sort of approaching
Speaker 4: them from Catherine Quinn to her own girlfriend. She said, wow,
Speaker 4: check that kid's fat chain out. And really, what she
Speaker 4: considered or thought was a fat chain was nothing more
Speaker 4: than a very simple simple gold chain and crucifix that
Speaker 4: was given to Matthew by my sister and her husband
Speaker 4: for his sixteenth birthday. And as he walked past her,
Speaker 4: she decided to jump him, and she jumped on Matthew's
Speaker 4: back and a scuffle ensued, and like you had mentioned earlier,
Speaker 4: they fell from the sidewalk onto the road, and we
Speaker 4: assumed that Catherine Quinn landed on perhaps a stone or
Speaker 4: a branch or something that caused a very superficial excoriation
Speaker 4: of the skin, just a tiny little scratch, but she
Speaker 4: started to and Matthew took off running at this point,
Speaker 4: and she started yelling to her friends and to her
Speaker 4: boyfriend that Matthew had stabbed her. So Katherine Quinn, in
Speaker 4: two of her girlfriends, jumped into her girlfriend's car, and
Speaker 4: Robert Foysland and his male friend that was there that
Speaker 4: evening took off on foot after Matthew. The girls followed
Speaker 4: Matthew in the car and chased him, and I guess
Speaker 4: they finally, you know, they Maddie was running through apartments,
Speaker 4: through fields, through houses, but they just they just kept
Speaker 4: pursuing him, and finally, the only thing I can think of.
Speaker 4: Of course, this is just my own personal opinion, being
Speaker 4: that I don't know, you know, what happened, but I'm
Speaker 4: thinking that Matthew probably thought if he could get to
Speaker 4: that skytrain, he might have been able to jump on
Speaker 4: and get out of there, or there was maybe some
Speaker 4: security there, because there were some you know sometimes especially
Speaker 4: in holidays, transit place that would attend the skytrain stations,
Speaker 4: and you know, I think that's perhaps what crossed Matthew's mind,
Speaker 4: and that's why he ran in that direction. So they
Speaker 4: pursued him and did find him and cornered him at
Speaker 4: the bottom of the escalators, and and everything that they
Speaker 4: did to Matthew was caught on these skytrained surveillance cameras.
Speaker 4: And this is exactly this is why I've named the
Speaker 4: book the Last six Minutes, because in those six minutes
Speaker 4: they took my child's life that in the time it
Speaker 4: could take you or I to walk into a Starbucks
Speaker 4: and purchase a cup of coffee and drink it. They
Speaker 4: took a child's life. I've never watched the video, although
Speaker 4: it was played hundreds of times during the trial, but
Speaker 4: I looked away. There was no sound. I have been
Speaker 4: told by people who did watch it that it has
Speaker 4: traumatized them for life. It is It is the most
Speaker 4: brutal assault on a child. And the difference in size
Speaker 4: is what really really hits you. Fordland was about six,
Speaker 4: I guess six one sixty two. Matthew was five five
Speaker 4: maybe one hundred and twenty five pounds four. Land's a
Speaker 4: very big, stocky man, and he they basically picked him
Speaker 4: up and threw him headfirst into plexiglass windows. They stomped
Speaker 4: on his head, they kicked him, They broke beer bottles
Speaker 4: on him. They then used a beer bottle and slit
Speaker 4: Matthew's throat and he would bleed out on that platform,
Speaker 4: and I would get a call from his friend because
Speaker 4: David would you know. Of course, notice that Matthew never
Speaker 4: came back and started walking in that direction and heard
Speaker 4: sirens and saw police car lights, and when he arrived
Speaker 4: at the scene, he noted that the clothes on the
Speaker 4: ground that the paramedics had cut off of Matthew were
Speaker 4: his friends, and he ran up to the police officer
Speaker 4: and said, you know, this is my friend's clothing. So
Speaker 4: of course they took him into custody as well for questioning,
Speaker 4: and it sort of unraveled from there. I would receive
Speaker 4: that call from David at three o'clock in the morning
Speaker 4: letting me know. I mean, of course he didn't know
Speaker 4: what had happened. All he told me over the phone
Speaker 4: was that Matthew had been assaulted. That he overheard the
Speaker 4: police officers saying that Matthew had been taken to Royal
Speaker 4: Colombian Hospital, and that's when the nightmare began for my family.
Speaker 4: We lost Matthew.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 4: Brain dead even by the time we had reached the hospital,
Speaker 4: and the doctors basically told us that there was no
Speaker 4: way he could survive the trauma from the blunt force
Speaker 4: to his head and brain. He had suffered terribly and
Speaker 4: that we had to make a decision to turn the
Speaker 4: machine off and allow the child to rest in peace.
Speaker 4: And that was the scariest day of my life. Dan,
Speaker 4: I will never forget it. It was an awful moment.
Speaker 5: Now let's go back just a little bit. The thing is,
Speaker 5: is this shocking on surprise, this devastating any news. Yes,
Speaker 5: didn't happen all at once. You know, I don't know
Speaker 5: what the intention was the hospital staff, but heading to
Speaker 5: the hospital, you had no idea the extend of his injury.
Speaker 6: No no idea whatsoever. I had.
Speaker 4: Like I said, I got to call at about three
Speaker 4: a m. And I rushed, of course, to you know,
Speaker 4: I'm yelling on the phone to his poor friend David,
Speaker 4: who's in the back of a police car calling me
Speaker 4: from his cell phone, and I ran to the you know,
Speaker 4: the kitchen to grab the Yellow Pages so I could
Speaker 4: look up the phone number for the hospital and would
Speaker 4: you know, finally reach someone in the emergency area. And
Speaker 4: they basically told me that, you know, I started to
Speaker 4: describe my son and felt that he was a young
Speaker 4: man that had just been brought in on an assault.
Speaker 4: And the woman that the nurse basically said to me,
Speaker 4: I think that it's a match, but we do need
Speaker 4: for you to come down here, uh and just take
Speaker 4: your time. And all I can say, Dan, it was
Speaker 4: the longest car ride of my life. You know, we
Speaker 4: didn't drive crazy. We you know, we tried to, but
Speaker 4: that entire car ride, you are inside your head like
Speaker 4: you can't. I don't even know how to describe those moments.
Speaker 4: They are so surreal because you don't know what to expect.
Speaker 4: You know. Here I was thinking I would go to
Speaker 4: the hospital and he's getting some stitches, and you know,
Speaker 4: we would cry and and but he would still come
Speaker 4: home bumped and bruised, and his little brothers and him
Speaker 4: would be, you know, back to the same old, you know,
Speaker 4: family stuff. But unfortunately I would be coming home that
Speaker 4: morning telling his two little brothers that he had died
Speaker 4: due to the brutality of the beating.
Speaker 5: Right, And what I was really struck by was that
Speaker 5: you were pregnant at that time, and so they felt
Speaker 5: everyone felt that maybe would be best if your husband,
Speaker 5: who's not Matthew's biological father but still his stepfather of course,
Speaker 5: and your husband to go in and identify Matthew yes,
Speaker 5: for the police. And then it was the reaction that
Speaker 5: you had when you saw him. You knew something was
Speaker 5: a myths up to that point. I don't think in
Speaker 5: the book you conveyed that you didn't actually know the
Speaker 5: extent you were hoping for the best. But when you
Speaker 5: saw him, tell us a little bit of just about that,
Speaker 5: because I think it's sure.
Speaker 4: Like you mentioned, my husband and I had just recently
Speaker 4: found out that I was pregnant with our fourth child.
Speaker 4: In fact, we had just probably three weeks earlier, told
Speaker 4: our children, our boys, Matthew and his two younger brothers,
Speaker 4: Mitchell and Brayden, that I was pregnant. And Matthew was ecstatic,
Speaker 4: especially at the thought of having a baby sister, because
Speaker 4: he already had two baby brothers. And he would tease
Speaker 4: me all the time saying, you know, mom, you're just
Speaker 4: going to have another boy. And I you know, I
Speaker 4: remember saying to him, no, Maddie, we should pick a
Speaker 4: girl's name. Let's pick a girl's name and and you
Speaker 4: will will it to happen. And it was it was
Speaker 4: just really really funny how he had jumped on the
Speaker 4: computer and picked out an incredible name. Her name is
Speaker 4: Chaiya and uh it just basically it's a Hindi name
Speaker 4: and in the everyday language it just means shadow. And
Speaker 4: he just thought and he said, well, how appropriate is
Speaker 4: that She's going to be like our you know, our
Speaker 4: little shadow. Oh yeah, So you know, like you said,
Speaker 4: I was, I was pregnant. And when the doctor, when
Speaker 4: the nurses said, you know, they needed someone to come
Speaker 4: in and identify Matthew, he was still on the operating table,
Speaker 4: to make sure that it was our son. My husband
Speaker 4: said to the nurse and the police officers that, you know,
Speaker 4: my wife is pregnant. Maybe it's not a good idea
Speaker 4: for her to do this. You know, We've got to
Speaker 4: be really careful. And they agreed, and so off David went,
Speaker 4: with the nurse on one side of him and a
Speaker 4: police officer on the other. And I, honestly, I can't
Speaker 4: tell you, Dan how long it was. It could have
Speaker 4: been two minutes, it could have been half an hour.
Speaker 4: But what I do remember is that when they brought
Speaker 4: David back into that little side room, they had kept
Speaker 4: us in, the nurse and the police officer on either
Speaker 4: side of him, holding him up. And I've never seen
Speaker 4: that look on my husband's face. And I knew the
Speaker 4: moment I looked up into his eyes that something was
Speaker 4: not I knew, of course, that it was Matthew, but
Speaker 4: I also knew that whatever he saw was so traumatic
Speaker 4: and horrific that he would never I would never it
Speaker 4: would go to his grave with him. He would never
Speaker 4: tell me what he saw that night.
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Speaker 4: You know, it's just it's awful, and you know, basically
Speaker 4: he you know, the one thing he did say was that,
Speaker 4: you know, he had to be very careful. He said,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have recognized him by first glance. And this
Speaker 4: is a child he has raised since Matthew was seven
Speaker 4: years old. I spent a lot of time with together.
Speaker 4: And he also said what confirmed it for him was
Speaker 4: that Matthew was wearing He remembered Matthew wearing the same
Speaker 4: camouflage boxer shorts earlier in that day and he had
Speaker 4: seen Matthew wearing them earlier that day, So that is
Speaker 4: truly what confirmed and Matthew's hands.
Speaker 5: Right, because you had you described it as the sheets
Speaker 5: and towels cover Matthew's body covenation.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah, they by the time they brought me
Speaker 4: in and they had brought Matthew into, I see you,
Speaker 4: they I never got to see Maddie's face because of
Speaker 4: the damage that they had done during the beating. They
Speaker 4: had to keep Matthew's face covered with towels, so all
Speaker 4: that was poking through was just the tip of his chin,
Speaker 4: Like I couldn't even see his bottom lip because of
Speaker 4: the damage, and and the bleeding was just so so profuse.
Speaker 4: The nurses would have to usher us out every ten
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes to be able to change the towels that
Speaker 4: were covering his face and head so that we wouldn't
Speaker 4: have to sit there with him bleeding through these towels.
Speaker 4: And that's how much damage they did to my beautiful
Speaker 4: child's face and head.
Speaker 5: It's incredible. Now, part of your Christian faith you wanted
Speaker 5: him or your religious face part of me, I'm not
Speaker 5: sure if you're Christian, but you wanted him baptized, and
Speaker 5: according to your faith, you contacted a father Michael, correct
Speaker 5: and it was important too that you talked to he
Speaker 5: asked how he asked something about being sure if Matthew
Speaker 5: wanted to be baptized, and you talked about the crucifix.
Speaker 5: Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny. I was born and raised a Catholic
Speaker 4: from a Portuguese family, and when I had Matthew, I
Speaker 4: thought it would be best that I allow my children
Speaker 4: to choose their own faith. I didn't because the way
Speaker 4: it worked for us is as children were baptized even
Speaker 4: before we can walk or talk, so really you have
Speaker 4: no choice. And I always felt that maybe it'd be
Speaker 4: a good idea to allow your child to pick their
Speaker 4: own faith, and so I had always left it that
Speaker 4: But from a very very young age, Matthew was always
Speaker 4: drawn to the whole concept of Catholicism, and and like
Speaker 4: my own and you believed in going to church and
Speaker 4: loved you know, all of that stuff. And so it
Speaker 4: seemed to given that Matthew was going to, at some
Speaker 4: point in his life adopt the Catholic faith.
Speaker 6: And so.
Speaker 4: I think he was probably thirteen or fourteen when he
Speaker 4: asked for his first crucifix, and I felt comfortable enough
Speaker 4: to allow him to wear a piece of jewelry that
Speaker 4: he was mature enough to take care of that, and
Speaker 4: so we bought him one. And I think it was
Speaker 4: just before his sixteenth birthday, a year before the actual
Speaker 4: robbery of and beating death. He had actually been robbed
Speaker 4: in our own community of that crucifix. And it wasn't
Speaker 4: until his sixteenth birthday that my sister and brother in
Speaker 4: law decided to purchase for his sixteenth birthday a new
Speaker 4: chaining crucifix, and this would be the chain and crucifix
Speaker 4: that he would end up losing his life over. So
Speaker 4: it's it's just it's so very sad, I you know,
Speaker 4: I wish, yeah, yeah, very It really shook the foundations
Speaker 4: of my faith and my beliefs because I just thought,
Speaker 4: what God would allow this to happen? But what I
Speaker 4: didn't realize. I mean, I thought, you know, I fought
Speaker 4: over this for for probably two or three years. I
Speaker 4: felt as though, you know, this was some cruel, sick
Speaker 4: joke on God's part, you know, you take my beautiful
Speaker 4: child and I'm pregnant, you know, and the guilt I
Speaker 4: suffered with terrible guilt over being pregnant and you know,
Speaker 4: bearing a child and bringing a child into the world.
Speaker 4: It was just this unbelievable feeling of just confusion. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's been an incredible, incredible journey, that is for sure.
Speaker 5: Now your first encounter, and I guess this would would
Speaker 5: shape a lot of things and a lot of your
Speaker 5: feelings later on. But a woman from Victim Services contacted
Speaker 5: you and gave you some booklets saying they would help
Speaker 5: you in the process of grieving. How did you react
Speaker 5: to that first encounter with someone from the government, from
Speaker 5: the victim services.
Speaker 4: Right, I have to be honest with you, my first
Speaker 4: encounter with someone from Victim Services was not a very
Speaker 4: good one. In fact, it happened as we were I
Speaker 4: had we had just left Matthew's body. He had we
Speaker 4: had turned the machine off, Maddie had taken his final breath,
Speaker 4: we had spent some time with him before we left,
Speaker 4: and basically my husband was carrying me out of that
Speaker 4: ICU unit towards the elevator, and all I remember is
Speaker 4: this woman sitting off to the side, to my left side,
Speaker 4: on these lounge couches there in the waiting room, and
Speaker 4: just as we were going to get into the elevator,
Speaker 4: she just sort of appeared in front of my face
Speaker 4: with a handful of pamphlets and she looked at me
Speaker 4: and she said, here, you know, missus Toner, these pamphlets
Speaker 4: are for you, and and they will, you know, tell
Speaker 4: you how you're supposed to grieve, and and they will,
Speaker 4: you know, show you what's gonna happen and what's gonna
Speaker 4: what you have to do next. And I just remember
Speaker 4: trying to process that, and I remember thinking to myself
Speaker 4: at that very moment, like, what you mean there's there's
Speaker 4: instructions on how to grieve, on how to go through this,
Speaker 4: and I just, you know, I just thought, this is wrong.
Speaker 4: This is absolutely wrong to be doing this and handing
Speaker 4: these to me, because and and over the years, I've
Speaker 4: learned this, there is no there are no instructions, there
Speaker 4: are no rights and wrongs of grieving, and there's no
Speaker 4: time limit on how it all works for everybody. It's different.
Speaker 4: So that was my first encounter, and it was not
Speaker 4: a good one. Dan.
Speaker 5: Right now, you've talked about the days that immediately followed
Speaker 5: Matthew's death, the guilt, the raving at God to say
Speaker 5: how could you do this? And it really shook your faith?
Speaker 5: But how was the story handled by media and why
Speaker 5: did you decide to speak to media about the murder?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: Well, I think initially the reason why I did go
Speaker 4: to the media was that the homicide investigators had come
Speaker 4: over to our home and they were asking if they
Speaker 4: asked us if we would go, if we would speak
Speaker 4: to the media and do a press conference, asking to
Speaker 4: see if any witnesses could come forward, because they felt
Speaker 4: that there were more people at that skytrain station that
Speaker 4: were there that night that we're probably too afraid to
Speaker 4: come forward, had seen something but didn't want to get involved.
Speaker 4: So that was initially that's what it was for, was
Speaker 4: just to plead with anybody to please please come forward
Speaker 4: and help us, you know, find other witnesses so that
Speaker 4: we could convict the two that were already being held
Speaker 4: you know, in remand right. So that was my first thing.
Speaker 4: Then it was sort of I think it was more
Speaker 4: my husband and I sat down and we just thought,
Speaker 4: this is wrong. If this has happened to our family,
Speaker 4: how many other families could this potentially happen to and
Speaker 4: and nobody would know if you didn't come out and
Speaker 4: speak about it, and how what can we do as
Speaker 4: parents is Maddie's you know, mother and father to try
Speaker 4: and reach out to others to say this is wrong.
Speaker 4: You know this, This is happening in our community, This
Speaker 4: is happening in our backyards, and we need to do something.
Speaker 4: This is unacceptable year. Our children should be able to
Speaker 4: go and enjoy the Canada day long weekend, fireworks and whatever,
Speaker 4: and walk in our communities and be safe. We shouldn't
Speaker 4: have to be worried that our children are going to
Speaker 4: be you know, caught in the crossfire of of you
Speaker 4: know gang you know gang shootings, nor should we be
Speaker 4: worried that someone's going to rob them and kill them
Speaker 4: for a chaining crucifix. It just it's wrong. And so
Speaker 4: David and I made a very very conscious decision that
Speaker 4: we were going to continue to keep our son's story,
Speaker 4: even though it was already you know, high profile in
Speaker 4: the community, that we were going to do whatever we
Speaker 4: could to make some changes, whether it be to the
Speaker 4: skytrain stations, better lighting, more security. I still believe that
Speaker 4: had there been a static guard there that night, perhaps
Speaker 4: my son might still be alive today. Had someone done something.
Speaker 4: Had there been some sort of security in place for Matthew,
Speaker 4: he could still potentially have been here.
Speaker 5: Now you talk about that Matthew's motive for running back
Speaker 5: to the skytraining for those people that don't know what
Speaker 5: the skytraining. If this is a above ground high speed
Speaker 5: train subway, yes, the description. Okay, Now, he ran to
Speaker 5: this thinking and I would have thought the same way,
Speaker 5: to run somewhere public in case these people would be
Speaker 5: not so savage as to assault them in front of witnesses.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 5: And you talked about the the plea from police for
Speaker 5: witnesses to come forward. Tell us what police had immediately
Speaker 5: after this, other than you said the videotape, the surveillance tape.
Speaker 5: But tell us about the police and the eventual witnesses
Speaker 5: that came forward.
Speaker 4: All right, we were very very lucky because the police
Speaker 4: that did attend were quick to pull that video surveillance
Speaker 4: tape because we didn't know this then but we do
Speaker 4: know now, or you know, shortly thereafter that. Had the
Speaker 4: police officers not pulled that video tape, it would have
Speaker 4: been looped over within I think twenty four hours, and
Speaker 4: we could have lost all of the you know, the
Speaker 4: video surveillance that was captured of the beating, which would
Speaker 4: have been horrific because we may never have found our
Speaker 4: son's killers had we not had that. The other great
Speaker 4: thing was there were some people at that skytrain station.
Speaker 4: Some of them fled and we've ever been able to
Speaker 4: find even after you know, the trial, but some of
Speaker 4: them did do the right thing. There were two young
Speaker 4: girls I guess they would have been sixteen and seventeen
Speaker 4: at the time, who were also who had also been
Speaker 4: out enjoying the Canada Day Long weekend, and these two
Speaker 4: girls were the only two girls to try to intervene.
Speaker 4: It's just incredible. One young girl actually physically tried to
Speaker 4: stop Fororzland, but he was just far too strong and big,
Speaker 4: and he was so intimidating he was. He even took
Speaker 4: the girls' photo identification and told them that if they
Speaker 4: spoke to anyone, he would come and he would kill them, so,
Speaker 4: you know, definitely instilled a lot of fear there. There
Speaker 4: was also another gentleman there who was probably at the
Speaker 4: time in his of late twenties early thirties, and the
Speaker 4: only reason he would be the last person to even
Speaker 4: speak to Matthew before paramedics got there. In Foresland and
Speaker 4: Quinn had already taken off. He would he walked over
Speaker 4: to Matthew's body and checked for a pulse, and he
Speaker 4: says he does remember that Matthew had a very faint,
Speaker 4: faint pulse at that time, and he said to Matthew,
Speaker 4: just just hang in there. He didn't know his name,
Speaker 4: he said, just hang in there. And he heard the
Speaker 4: sirens coming. Someone had obviously called nine one one, but
Speaker 4: he took off when he heard the sirens because it
Speaker 4: turned out he had some warrants for his arrest and
Speaker 4: so he was afraid of being arrested. But what he
Speaker 4: did do was he walked all the way from the
Speaker 4: Surrey skytrain station to Surrey Memorial Hospital, thinking that Matthew
Speaker 4: would have been taken there, but unfortunately, because of the
Speaker 4: head trauma, the emergency response team decided to take Matthew
Speaker 4: to Royal Columbian Hospital because they specialize in brain and
Speaker 4: head trauma. But he did walk all the way from
Speaker 4: the skytrain station to a Surrey Memorial Hospital, which probably
Speaker 4: took him between thirty five forty minutes on foot to
Speaker 4: walk there, and when he got there, he noticed there
Speaker 4: were a ton of police cars in the parking lot
Speaker 4: and police everywhere, and he couldn't figure out what this
Speaker 4: was all about. But as he started to walk towards
Speaker 4: the emergency doors, he looked in the back of the
Speaker 4: police car who and it was Robert Forsland. He had
Speaker 4: actually and he walked right up to one of the
Speaker 4: police officers and said, that's the guy that I just
Speaker 4: watched beating a young boy at the Surrey the Surrey
Speaker 4: Central skytrain station. And that's how the police were able
Speaker 4: to put two and two together. Otherwise we would have
Speaker 4: just ended up, you know, on this manhunt trying to
Speaker 4: find these people off of you know, you know, pictures
Speaker 4: off of a video surveillance camera, which in fact weren't
Speaker 4: very good. So had it not been for this man
Speaker 4: going to the hospital in iding Robert Foresland and Catherine
Speaker 4: quinn they probably would have gotten away with murder.
Speaker 5: Now, Catherine quinn is and Robert fores Lynn go up
Speaker 5: for bail, and what happens in those appeals for bail, right.
Speaker 4: Right, They, like I said, they were both taken into
Speaker 4: custody the night that this all happened, and it wasn't
Speaker 4: until like probably like a year, just like almost to
Speaker 4: the date of the first memorial for Matthew's passing, and
Speaker 4: we get a call from our Crown prosecutor to tell
Speaker 4: us that Catherine Quinn is appealing, is applying for bail.
Speaker 4: And I thought, well, why would she spend out an
Speaker 4: entire year in prison and.
Speaker 6: Apply for bail now, because most of the times they
Speaker 6: do it right away.
Speaker 4: And so what happened was I maybe she just had
Speaker 4: this moment of hey, you know, I need to get
Speaker 4: out of here, because she is a mother of three.
Speaker 4: She wanted to be with her children and her family.
Speaker 4: She wasn't having a great time in prison, and so
Speaker 4: here we were, and I honestly, Dan, I can't like
Speaker 4: you're hearing this judge you know, basically say you know,
Speaker 4: I am really you know, I don't think it's a
Speaker 4: good idea to to you know, release you into the community.
Speaker 6: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: And you're thinking, oh, this is great. They're going to
Speaker 4: keep her until the trial and then all you all
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Speaker 4: Reason to keep you in prison, and we release you
Speaker 4: on five thousand dollars bail. And it was at that
Speaker 4: moment that I honestly, I honestly said to myself, this
Speaker 4: is not right. Something is very very wrong with our
Speaker 4: justice system. And it was a huge It was that
Speaker 4: carpet was just pulled out from underneath me, and I
Speaker 4: honestly felt as though my child was not worth five
Speaker 4: thousand dollars if this is what they were releasing her on.
Speaker 4: And it was at that moment I realized I would
Speaker 4: never stop fighting for my son. I was going to
Speaker 4: do something.
Speaker 5: So you had no other You had no idea why
Speaker 5: they would have let her out on bail after that
Speaker 5: year and you were in the dark about this. You
Speaker 5: also called your victim services person again right after this.
Speaker 5: What did you ask her for at that time and
Speaker 5: what was her response?
Speaker 4: Well, I was really afraid because when she was released,
Speaker 4: I found out that she was being released into the
Speaker 4: custody of her parents, and her parents reside here in Vancouver,
Speaker 4: where we do, and of course they released the address
Speaker 4: during the bail hearing, and we found out that it
Speaker 4: was ten blocks from our home, and that really really
Speaker 4: scared me, especially since I was pregnant and this woman
Speaker 4: was obviously psychopathic, and because of my two younger children,
Speaker 4: So of course I feared for our safety. And my
Speaker 4: husband traveled a lot with work. So I had called
Speaker 4: the victim service his office to see if there was
Speaker 4: some sort of you know, panic or alarm or a
Speaker 4: security system that they, you know, would fund and place
Speaker 4: in our home to keep us safe should anything happen,
Speaker 4: being that we lived so close, and she basically she
Speaker 4: said that she would look into it, that she would
Speaker 4: give me a callback, and I should she should have
Speaker 4: an answer, you know, within twenty four hours. I received
Speaker 4: a call the very next day and she basically told
Speaker 4: me that I didn't qualify that we wouldn't qualify for
Speaker 4: a se charity system in our home.
Speaker 5: Why was that?
Speaker 4: It never gave us any reason, absolutely no reason. It
Speaker 4: was just they didn't feel that that, you know, Catherine
Speaker 4: Quinn was was was that much of a threat that
Speaker 4: they should have to fund a security system for our family?
Speaker 4: So yeah, there was, you know, and I think back now,
Speaker 4: had it been now, I would have you know, obviously
Speaker 4: you know, torn a strip. But I was so raw
Speaker 4: at that point, I just I couldn't leave what I
Speaker 4: was hearing and I just left it at that. And
Speaker 4: that's why today I don't take no for an answer.
Speaker 4: I will continue to fight and appeal. And you know,
Speaker 4: but back then I didn't know any better. I just
Speaker 4: thought what they say goes and that's that.
Speaker 5: Now you say that. But shortly after this, and at
Speaker 5: least tell us when this happened, was your first rally
Speaker 5: and basically the formulation of your group, and you were
Speaker 5: talking about Strichster bail laws. You went to the new
Speaker 5: Westminster Courthouse and obviously you needed some support from the media.
Speaker 5: Tell us about the whole experience, and then response from
Speaker 5: people that may have seen the television report on your rally.
Speaker 4: Sure the day that she was released on bail. Like
Speaker 4: I said, I realized, oh my goodness, you know, we
Speaker 4: have got to let people know that she's being released
Speaker 4: into our community. But the other thing we need to
Speaker 4: do is we need to start, you know, making some noise,
Speaker 4: like do you do Canadian citizens realize that there are
Speaker 4: killers being released amongst us while whilst awaiting their trials,
Speaker 4: you know, living in our communities, And who's to say
Speaker 4: that they won't reoffend while they're out, you know, on bail.
Speaker 4: So what I did was, of course, you know, over
Speaker 4: that year, I had made quite a few friends in
Speaker 4: the media, had kept in close contact with them because
Speaker 4: they wanted to be you know, you know, up to
Speaker 4: date on what was happening with the trial and what
Speaker 4: was going on with Quinn and Foresland. So I called
Speaker 4: them all up and you know, told them about the
Speaker 4: bail hearing and how you know, disillusioned we were with
Speaker 4: the criminal justice system, and that I wanted to do
Speaker 4: something and would they help me? And all I asked
Speaker 4: was that they, you know, let people know that we
Speaker 4: were going to hold a rally at the new Westminster
Speaker 4: Courthouse and we were going to be protesting Quinn's release.
Speaker 4: On five thousand dollars bail and you know the treatment
Speaker 4: of victims. And I had reached out in that newscast
Speaker 4: to other families that had lost children to violent crimes
Speaker 4: and asked that we stand together, that we you know,
Speaker 4: stand united and you know, be a voice for our children.
Speaker 4: And so, you know, we showed up to the courthouse
Speaker 4: that day and David and I were just overwhelmed by
Speaker 4: how many people came. People had made placards carrying them,
Speaker 4: carrying signs. It was just an unbelievable feeling. And it
Speaker 4: would be at that rally that I would meet three
Speaker 4: or four other families whose children had been murdered and
Speaker 4: they were still waiting for justice, and they had felt
Speaker 4: so alone and isolated in their you know, quest for justice.
Speaker 4: As well as I met this this amazing woman, Nina Rivet,
Speaker 4: whose sister, Irene Thorpe, had been run down by street
Speaker 4: racers and I think two thousand and she had lost
Speaker 4: her sister and she had just been an incredible fighter
Speaker 4: on her sister's behalf. And so it was just incredible
Speaker 4: that I had the opportunity to meet me in a
Speaker 4: Rivet and I invited her over for coffee a few
Speaker 4: days later and told her that I had been thinking about,
Speaker 4: you know, founding this organization and would she be so
Speaker 4: kind as to you know, stand alongside me and be
Speaker 4: the president of Fact.
Speaker 6: And that was that.
Speaker 4: It was basically, you know, my sisters, my in laws,
Speaker 4: Anina Rivet, a few other family members who had lost
Speaker 4: their children, sitting at my dining room table, and we
Speaker 4: you know, basically said this is what we want to do.
Speaker 4: We want to be able to be a voice for
Speaker 4: our children. We want to be able to you know,
Speaker 4: get families the resources that they need in a timely manner.
Speaker 4: I honestly, family should not have to worry about how
Speaker 4: they're going to pay their mortgage, or their bills, or
Speaker 4: their rent, or how they're going to have to pay
Speaker 4: for their child's funeral, all of those things when you
Speaker 4: can barely function, you know, days after the loss of
Speaker 4: a child. It's incredible all of the things that were
Speaker 4: left to deal with with with no help, with no help,
Speaker 4: no help from the government. I mean, you know, they
Speaker 4: cap out at five thousand dollars. You know, it's just
Speaker 4: it's really really sad. It's really really sad.
Speaker 5: Explain the would you talked about the five thousand, and
Speaker 5: what that five thousand is. You mentioned it your funeral
Speaker 5: costs thirty thousand dollars, right, and wasn't that elaborate? And
Speaker 5: the government cap started at five thousand, and they gave
Speaker 5: you four thousand towards a funeral, So you're already twenty
Speaker 5: five thousand dollars in the whole. And then you talked
Speaker 5: about the trauma that the family, yourself injured, and then
Speaker 5: you go to the government for some kind of financial aid.
Speaker 5: Tell us more about that, but also put it in
Speaker 5: the context of you also investigated what, weirdly enough, for
Speaker 5: some people, the perpetrator's family is entitled to some therapy
Speaker 5: and counseling and absolutely financially. So first tell us what
Speaker 5: they are entitled to, and then compare that to what
Speaker 5: you found out yourself and other families like yourself are
Speaker 5: entitled to.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Through research, since all this happened, I have found
Speaker 4: out that not only are the offenders entitled to many
Speaker 4: many things once incarcerated, I mean they've got medical and
Speaker 4: dental and basically you know, they can go to university
Speaker 4: or college or get their high school diplomas. Everything. See,
Speaker 4: there's there's a plethora of resources always in place, whether
Speaker 4: it be uh, you know, spiritual, aboriginal, spiritual stuff. There's
Speaker 4: so much in place for offenders, but when it comes
Speaker 4: to the victims or the families or those you know,
Speaker 4: surviving victims of homicide, they're just honestly, I'll and I've
Speaker 4: said this, I felt as though I had to beg
Speaker 4: for every little thing. The only thing I did get
Speaker 4: some help in, which was an absolute pittance, was four
Speaker 4: thousand dollars for towards Matthew's funeral. And like you said,
Speaker 4: Matthew's funeral, you know, no frills, Like honestly was like
Speaker 4: close to thirty thousand dollars. And you know, you know,
Speaker 4: we just didn't have thirty thousand dollars sitting in our
Speaker 4: savings account. I mean, you know, we were a family
Speaker 4: living from I had just finished university and had started working,
Speaker 4: so you know, basically paycheck to paycheck. So yeah, it's
Speaker 4: it was just incredible the amount of money that and
Speaker 4: debt that we had to go into in order to
Speaker 4: be able to bury our child in a very simple,
Speaker 4: simple fashion. And it's just unfair. It's very unfair. I
Speaker 4: honestly think that that bill should be on the government
Speaker 4: the entire bill, regardless of how a family chooses to
Speaker 4: whether they bury a child or create a child. We
Speaker 4: need to see changes. We need to see changes in
Speaker 4: where our government caps out, you know, like right now
Speaker 4: they cap out I think at five thousand dollars towards
Speaker 4: a funeral. But what they need to look at is
Speaker 4: the cost of a funeral today. When that piece of
Speaker 4: legislation or that act was put in place, we weren't living.
Speaker 4: You know, it didn't cost you know, five thousand dollars
Speaker 4: for a coffin and I'm talking a simple, simple coffin.
Speaker 6: For your child.
Speaker 4: So those are things that I am constantly on top of.
Speaker 4: I am constantly arguing with the government agencies and the
Speaker 4: Crime Victim's Assistance Program because we need to really see,
Speaker 4: you know, amendments and changes made to these pieces of legislation.
Speaker 5: Right now. There was part of the story that we
Speaker 5: haven't spoken about too, is the demeanor of Catherine Quinn
Speaker 5: after this crime. And you talked about you would requested
Speaker 5: with victims Services that you have some kind of panic
Speaker 5: button because yes, of her action, but you didn't go
Speaker 5: into what some of the things that she had done
Speaker 5: by posting certain taunts and sense statements online. Tell us
Speaker 5: a little bit about that, just to add insult to
Speaker 5: injury for yourself.
Speaker 4: Sure. Sure. From the moment she was released on bail,
Speaker 4: Catherine Quinn took to the Internet instantly. And because our
Speaker 4: bail stipulations are so antiquated, it does not include the
Speaker 4: use of internet in those bail stipulations. So because the
Speaker 4: stipulations are so vague and so old, yes, she's not
Speaker 4: allowed to make phone calls, she's not allowed to have
Speaker 4: any direct or indirect to contact with myself or my
Speaker 4: FAMI or Robert Forsland, of course, but nothing on her
Speaker 4: bail stipulation stated that she could not use the internet.
Speaker 4: So it was like the moment she got home and
Speaker 4: had internet access, she created all sorts of forums and
Speaker 4: what they were like neck sopia pages where she would
Speaker 4: post pictures and post horrific, horrific comments about Matthew and
Speaker 4: my family. I mean it went to the I mean
Speaker 4: they called me a whore, They called me you know,
Speaker 4: they said that Matthew was a punk ass looking for trouble,
Speaker 4: you name it. They tormented my she tormented my family. Well,
Speaker 4: when I say they, I have to include her family
Speaker 4: because also it was you know, her brothers and sisters.
Speaker 4: If I could just give you an idea, a little
Speaker 4: idea of what this family is like. This family, the
Speaker 4: Quinn family, Moe and Annabelle have five children, and all
Speaker 4: of their children, at some point in their lives, have
Speaker 4: been arrested and charged or incarcerated with violent crimes. Just
Speaker 4: after Matthew's murder.
Speaker 6: Her brother.
Speaker 4: Was on the BC wide most wanted lists for uttering
Speaker 4: threats and a violent assault with a weapon. So this
Speaker 4: is these are the type of this is. You know,
Speaker 4: these are the type of people that we're dealing with.
Speaker 4: And it didn't stop there when we finally did go
Speaker 4: to trial. Because she had been released out on bail,
Speaker 4: she could come and go in and out of the
Speaker 4: courthouse as she pleased, as long as she was with
Speaker 4: her parents. Her friends would show up at the courthouse.
Speaker 4: They would stand in front of my family and take
Speaker 4: photos of themselves like trophy pictures. Those pictures would then
Speaker 4: end up on the internet with horrible statements against my family.
Speaker 4: No respect for the child that had been murdered. Her
Speaker 4: own father was taking those photos, you know, no respect
Speaker 4: for my family while we stood there grieving the loss.
Speaker 4: Most times we would have to go down into the
Speaker 4: parcade to be free of the stairs and taunts. At
Speaker 4: one point, because I suffered with terrible, terrible separation anxiety
Speaker 4: from my daughter, I would on most occasions take my daughter,
Speaker 4: who was six months old at the time, to court
Speaker 4: with me. Dan and my husband and I would take
Speaker 4: turns going into the courtroom and the other would stay
Speaker 4: in the lounge with baby. And at one point I
Speaker 4: needed some fresh air. I thought everybody had already gone
Speaker 4: back into the courtroom, and so I walked outside with
Speaker 4: my child and I looked over to my right and
Speaker 4: who was standing there but Catherine Quinn's brother. I've got
Speaker 4: a newborn baby in my arms. He's screaming and yelling,
Speaker 4: and I look behind me and thinking is he yelling
Speaker 4: at someone behind me? And I couldn't believe it. He
Speaker 4: was yelling at me. When I listened, he was telling
Speaker 4: me I should come out to Surrey so they could
Speaker 4: beat the crap out of me too, And all I
Speaker 4: remember seeing is the sheriffs running towards the front door
Speaker 4: to come and grab me and bring me inside. And
Speaker 4: then when it was time to leave, the homicide investigators
Speaker 4: and police officers all walked to my husband and I
Speaker 4: and our newborn baby to our car because we feared
Speaker 4: for our lives.
Speaker 5: Wow. Now to even increase your anxiety some more, you
Speaker 5: encountered the Canadian judicial system face on and had to
Speaker 5: deal with the defense attorney named Miller. I don't know
Speaker 5: his first name, but mister Miller. Yes, and you said
Speaker 5: his biggest issue brought forth in terms of what was
Speaker 5: the cell plant evidence, And that's where an undercover police
Speaker 5: officer was put in the cells immediately after Karen Quinn
Speaker 5: was or Kaptain Quinn was arrested. What information did they
Speaker 5: get from that undercover.
Speaker 4: Before that night? It was fantastic evidence. He really fought
Speaker 4: so hard to have that struck out. Unfortunately it was
Speaker 4: used during the first trial. The officer did state that
Speaker 4: Catherine Quinn told her in in you know, no uncertain terms.
Speaker 6: That they were screwed, that you know that you know
Speaker 6: she had.
Speaker 4: Handed Foresland's this beer bottle, I mean, you name it.
Speaker 4: She basically confessed to this under cover officer. Our problem
Speaker 4: was later on when she would use that to appeal,
Speaker 4: saying that the undercover officer wasn't wired nor was it recorded.
Speaker 4: That the undercover officer must have you know, been what
Speaker 4: were the words that they used, like had seen something
Speaker 4: in the media, had been you know, infused with with
Speaker 4: you know, had put her own opinion in there because
Speaker 4: she had already heard and seen on the news what
Speaker 4: had happened, right right, Yeah, Yeah, it was very, very incriminating.
Speaker 5: So on the basis of that evidence and other evidence,
Speaker 5: she decided, and her lawyer must have decided as well.
Speaker 5: On April ninth, she took the stand. Yes, why do
Speaker 5: you think she and her lawyer decide to do that?
Speaker 5: And tell us about her testimony and their demeanor during
Speaker 5: that day of testimony.
Speaker 4: To tell you the truth down, I don't think James
Speaker 4: Miller wanted Quinn to testify. I think she basically said,
Speaker 4: I want to get up there, I want to tell
Speaker 4: my side of the story. And I think he knew
Speaker 4: that she was going to, honestly, you know, hang herself. Basically.
Speaker 4: That's a terrible thing to say, but that's exactly what
Speaker 4: she was going to do up there. What you have
Speaker 4: to understand is, I think Catherine Quinn what she.
Speaker 6: Wants she gets.
Speaker 4: She's got that type of personality. She's very manipulative, very
Speaker 4: it's my way or the highway, and when she got
Speaker 4: up on the stand. I mean, it really really was.
Speaker 4: I mean, she basically said that she didn't get out
Speaker 4: of the car, she didn't see what Robert Foresland was
Speaker 4: doing to Matthew, that Matthew had stabbed her, you know,
Speaker 4: And honestly, the jury saw right through that, especially because
Speaker 4: in the in the video surveillance, it clearly clearly shows
Speaker 4: Catherine Quinn, you know, out of the car, and you know,
Speaker 4: the witnesses stated that she was in their face talking
Speaker 4: to them.
Speaker 6: So it really was.
Speaker 4: I don't know why she took the stand. She made
Speaker 4: it that much worse for herself.
Speaker 5: So she wasn't an effective witness whatsoever.
Speaker 4: On her own. No, No, she wasn't.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 5: Answered to the allegation that there was there was a
Speaker 5: strong allegation and important part of the trial that there
Speaker 5: was a statement something to the effect you love she
Speaker 5: yelled to Robert Foresland, her boyfriend you, if you love
Speaker 5: you will kill him.
Speaker 4: That's correct. Many witnesses that were there that night, three
Speaker 4: or I think three or four of them that took
Speaker 4: the stand all said the same thing that Catherine Quinn
Speaker 4: was yelling. If you love me, you'll kill him, babe.
Speaker 4: Many of them heard that, and that's you know, that's
Speaker 4: the whole thing with the appeal that you know Miller
Speaker 4: felt that, you know, it's not possible from where they
Speaker 4: were standing that far away that they could hear Catherine
Speaker 4: Quinn clearly stating this.
Speaker 6: It's and but.
Speaker 4: All four witnesses did state that she did say that,
Speaker 4: and she still to this day denies it.
Speaker 5: Right right now, you also talked about that the tactics
Speaker 5: that the defense lawyer Miller used you were very You
Speaker 5: talked quite extensively about how you were disgusted by his techniques.
Speaker 5: You even said that when she her testimony, you believe
Speaker 5: was coached and prepare. But if you really think he
Speaker 5: told blaytant lies that he knew his clients was perjuring
Speaker 5: herself on the stand and still allow that, I don't know.
Speaker 4: If you know, consciously I want to say no, because
Speaker 4: I you know, I honestly don't want to believe that
Speaker 4: any defense lawyer would would do that. But subconsciously, I
Speaker 4: think Miller's the type of man that doesn't want to lose,
Speaker 4: and he made that quite clear.
Speaker 6: He I've never seen.
Speaker 4: Anything like it in my life other than on TV.
Speaker 4: Dan I Honestly, I don't even know how to best
Speaker 4: describe Miller other than incredibly theatrical. You know, he would swing,
Speaker 4: he would grab hold of his of his robe and
Speaker 4: like sway it around him like like a vampire would,
Speaker 4: and he would yell and scream, and his veins would
Speaker 4: be bulging out of his forehead. And I remember sitting
Speaker 4: there thinking, dear Lord, I hope there are paramedics outside,
Speaker 4: because this man is going to have a heart attack
Speaker 4: right here. I've never in my life seen anything like
Speaker 4: it other than on TV or in the theater actors.
Speaker 4: So it was intolerable at times. And and and he
Speaker 4: was incorrigible. I mean he would, you know, say things
Speaker 4: that were were untrue.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: He would start saying how Matthew was an addict and
Speaker 4: he had all these drugs in his system, and you know,
Speaker 4: and and we had just had the you know, the
Speaker 4: doctor there stating that Matthew had pizza and Coca cola
Speaker 4: and his stomach had some marijuana in his system, but
Speaker 4: it was three nanograms, you know, So where he got
Speaker 4: off trying to say that my child was this drug addict.
Speaker 4: Even at one point he called my son a mess
Speaker 4: addict it wasn't there.
Speaker 5: Some talk that he could have actually stabbed or had
Speaker 5: a rep.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, you know they thought at first, you know,
Speaker 4: they talked about a pen knife, and then a knife
Speaker 4: in a little box was found outside a tool shed
Speaker 4: by the police. But it was still contained in this
Speaker 4: almost like a gardening knife in a in a little
Speaker 4: sealed box. But there were there were no I mean
Speaker 4: they fingerprinted it. There were no prints on this knife.
Speaker 4: There was no blood on the knife. It's just that
Speaker 4: Quinn stated that it was Matthew's knife, but it was
Speaker 4: never proven, never proven that Matthew.
Speaker 6: Had a knife.
Speaker 5: So overall your experiences that you talked about in most
Speaker 5: books that you had a negative experience with your journey
Speaker 5: through the Canadian judicial systems. You were disappointed with the tactics,
Speaker 5: the depiction of your son as some sort of criminal
Speaker 5: to deflect from from the guilt of Catherine Quinn and
Speaker 5: Robert Forsland. There was you were fairly disappointed. There was
Speaker 5: a janitor apparently it was at the train station that
Speaker 5: just did his work and ignored the murder that was
Speaker 5: going on in front of us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and on the video surveillance.
Speaker 6: I've been told that.
Speaker 4: You actually see the skytrain cleaner there, the janitor waiting
Speaker 4: for them to move, like Forceland to move out of
Speaker 4: his way so he can get his cart around them.
Speaker 4: He did nothing to help my child. My child begged
Speaker 4: for help while he was still conscious, begged for mercy.
Speaker 4: He had already handed over every little thing he had,
Speaker 4: his wallet, his shoes. When when Foresland was picked up
Speaker 4: at the hospital, they Forthland had Matthew's chaining crucifix, Matthew's watch,
Speaker 4: Matthew's diamond earring, Matthew's shoes were gone when they got there.
Speaker 4: He had all Matthew's wallet, Matthew's cell phone, Matthew's house keys,
Speaker 4: He had all of Matty's things.
Speaker 5: So both Casi and Quinn and Robert Foreslund were charged
Speaker 5: and obviously sentenced and convicted a second degree murder. Yes,
Speaker 5: in your next book, Cry for Justice, murdered Child's legacy.
Speaker 5: This story gets even more crazy and more twisted as
Speaker 5: Catherine Quinn has offered a new trial that's correct.
Speaker 4: Right on the same day in which Catherine Quinn was sentenced,
Speaker 4: Miller would charge out of that courtroom to the outside
Speaker 4: to the media, stating that his client was going to
Speaker 4: be appealing, which we had already been warned. We had
Speaker 4: already been told by our Crown prosecutors that eighty percent
Speaker 4: of those convicted of second degree and first degree murder
Speaker 4: will appeal their sentence or conviction or both, so we
Speaker 4: were kind of prepared for that, and we had, of
Speaker 4: course followed the Kelly Ellard story for Arina K's parents
Speaker 4: the eleven years they fought for justice, so we were
Speaker 4: sort of prepared for that. So of course he was
Speaker 4: out there yelling and screaming they were going to appeal,
Speaker 4: and we waited that thirty days, and sure enough, on
Speaker 4: the thirtieth day we had, you know, she had applied
Speaker 4: for her appeal. And then within I think three months,
Speaker 4: we had found out that the appeal had been granted.
Speaker 4: And so once again we were thrust into the Canadian
Speaker 4: criminal justice system, and just constantly it just felt like
Speaker 4: as soon as you were able to breathe, you were
Speaker 4: punched again and punched again. I felt as though I
Speaker 4: couldn't catch my breast, and I felt it was always
Speaker 4: geared towards Catherine Quinn. Everything was for Catherine Quinn. Yet
Speaker 4: our family was constantly left in the dark, no resources
Speaker 4: no help. Everything we did we had to do for ourselves,
Speaker 4: whereas it seemed like every little thing was there for
Speaker 4: Catherine Quinn right.
Speaker 5: Nice, you form this organization called FACT Families Against Crime
Speaker 5: and Trauma. Tell us a little bit more about the
Speaker 5: organization as status right now. I know that you have
Speaker 5: a fair amount of members and you're taking some headway,
Speaker 5: yes with your cause. Tell us a little more about
Speaker 5: the group specifically, what you're most trying to change specifically,
Speaker 5: and how people, if they are interested and moved by
Speaker 5: this interview, can contact you about some more information.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Families Against Crime and Trauma is an organization for
Speaker 4: anyone affected by a violent crime, regardless of whether there
Speaker 4: was a homicide or not. I think our biggest hope,
Speaker 4: in our biggest aspiration, is to be able to get
Speaker 4: families and resources, financial and therapeutic in a very timely manner.
Speaker 4: I think that that is key to being able to
Speaker 4: grieve and heal properly. When you're able to just focus
Speaker 4: on healing and grieving and not all the other stuff
Speaker 4: going on around you, that is is incredibly important, and
Speaker 4: I think that's one of the things that we strive.
Speaker 4: It's the most important thing that we strive to find
Speaker 4: for families. Our second goal, of course, is to keep
Speaker 4: on top of these laws and pieces of legislation that
Speaker 4: you know are are antiquated and need amendments. So right
Speaker 4: now we're working on the you know, the the bail stipulations.
Speaker 4: So it's our Judicial Interim Release Act, in which you know,
Speaker 4: we'd like to see you know, that that those who
Speaker 4: are incarcerated and those who are out on bail in
Speaker 4: the community aren't allowed to be on Facebook and any
Speaker 4: of these social media networks to to you know, why
Speaker 4: should they be on the internet. Why should their victims
Speaker 4: have to endure that? But you know, it's just not right.
Speaker 4: The other things that are really important to us is
Speaker 4: to see that changes be made to the Crime Victims
Speaker 4: Assistance Act. And I know that that difference for a
Speaker 4: difference from province to province. Some provinces don't even have
Speaker 4: a victim's assistance program there, so it will all differ
Speaker 4: across Canada. But that's something that's very important. We need
Speaker 4: for our government to see that the loss loss of
Speaker 4: wages that they're giving for I think it's like eight
Speaker 4: dollars an hour just isn't really it does not reflect
Speaker 4: today's standards of living for families, especially with children, that
Speaker 4: needs to improve how much they are helping families with
Speaker 4: funeral costs and other things. There there are many many
Speaker 4: things that aren't even in place that we feel should
Speaker 4: be in place. A dental is another thing that we
Speaker 4: feel that victims even though sometimes you know during a
Speaker 4: crime that the teeth aren't you know, broken or chipped,
Speaker 4: but what happens is afterwards from the post traumatic stress disorder,
Speaker 4: they end up you know, there is a lot of
Speaker 4: damage to the teeth. They're in a lot of pain.
Speaker 4: I think that that should be incorporated and should be
Speaker 4: taken care of. So lots of little things down I mean,
Speaker 4: I could spend hours with you giving you a list
Speaker 4: of the things.
Speaker 6: That FACT does. We're multi faceted.
Speaker 4: I think the best thing I can suggest for your
Speaker 4: listeners is to please visit our website at TRIPLEW dot
Speaker 4: Families Against Crime dot org. Uh there is a huge
Speaker 4: you know, there's tabs you can go into perhaps that
Speaker 4: will answer more of your questions of you know, what
Speaker 4: we do and and the other thing I suggest is
Speaker 4: if your viewers and your listeners would like to read
Speaker 4: the books, is that they visit the Whibs a website.
Speaker 4: They can order online directly. That would mean the world
Speaker 4: to us because proceeds from the sales of the book
Speaker 4: do You Go to does go to fact and that
Speaker 4: helps us in our you know, to pursue our cause
Speaker 4: and to help other victims, for.
Speaker 5: Those in America. Is this book available through Amazon and
Speaker 5: Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 4: I think that my publishing company is trying to get
Speaker 4: that on there. I know, when you punch it up,
Speaker 4: you know, the book will come up, but it says
Speaker 4: that it's currently unavailable. So I think the best thing
Speaker 4: to do is either go to the Last six Minutes
Speaker 4: dot com or Aspirations Publishing dot com and you can
Speaker 4: order them directly online. They'll be sent to you overnight shipping.
Speaker 4: So you know, I think that's your best bet for now.
Speaker 6: I'd love to see my books in the US though.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Great, Yeah, So that's people been listening to the program.
Speaker 5: You've been talking about your book the last six minutes,
Speaker 5: and we just alluded to the book that came out
Speaker 5: the next year, twenty ten. This one came out in
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine was Cry for Justice, Some murdered
Speaker 5: Child's legacy. So it's a continuum of your deal and
Speaker 5: your journey through the Canadian judicial system, your dispatisfaction, but
Speaker 5: then your call for action, and people have responded in
Speaker 5: this country. And I think people can relate to you
Speaker 5: in America because they've been going through this nightmare for
Speaker 5: years with they understand murder. I think even more so
Speaker 5: than Canadians who still think it doesn't happen in our backyard.
Speaker 6: So exactly, Dan, Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you very much shift for joining me us
Speaker 5: on this program, and the best of luck with your
Speaker 5: group Fact and with your two great books, the Last
Speaker 5: six Minutes and Cry for Justice.
Speaker 6: Great thank you, thank you very.
Speaker 5: Much much, Bye bye. You've been listening to the program
Speaker 5: True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history
Speaker 5: and the authors that have written about them. Join me
Speaker 5: next time. Good night,