1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,719
Speaker 1: For members only. Golf Smarter number three hundred and fifty four,

2
00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,960
published on October twenty three, twenty twelve.

3
00:00:08,199 --> 00:00:13,279
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter mulligans, your second chance to gain

4
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,879
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

5
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,920
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our

6
00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:27,800
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

7
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,480
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

8
00:00:31,719 --> 00:00:34,359
Speaker 3: But when Hogan finished, he shot a seventy in the

9
00:00:34,399 --> 00:00:37,200
final round. It was his best score out of the

10
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,759
four rounds. There were very few scores under seventy on

11
00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:43,920
that course. It was so difficult, and everybody thought he'd

12
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,280
want When he finishes, it's about five after five TVs

13
00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:51,079
just come on and Gene Service and comes rushing across

14
00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,280
the green with the microphone to congratulate Hogan and interview

15
00:00:54,399 --> 00:00:57,799
him and basically said, you know, you've won your fifth open.

16
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,520
And he even asked Hogan to hold up hand his

17
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,319
five fingers to signify five. And what I understand is

18
00:01:04,359 --> 00:01:07,040
that Hogan started to do that and then he caught himself.

19
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,879
He realized, in a wait of a second, it's not

20
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,359
over and he said that, and he finished the interviewed.

21
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,560
It was a very short interview, and he walked up

22
00:01:14,599 --> 00:01:16,840
the slope to the clubhouse and into the locker room

23
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,799
to wait for the official end of the tournament. People

24
00:01:19,799 --> 00:01:22,480
thought it was over. He was five shots ahead of

25
00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:25,760
Speed and Boll who were tied for second. There's no

26
00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:28,400
one else out on the golf course who really even

27
00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:33,680
has a mathematical chance except this wine player Jack flex.

28
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 1: Hard too on the greatest upset at the nineteen fifty

29
00:01:43,359 --> 00:01:44,319
five US Open.

30
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers

31
00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:53,079
and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked

32
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,840
for your host, Fred.

33
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: Green, Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only. Neil,

34
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,519
it's good, thank you. And we had prepped everybody that

35
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,480
we're just gonna go ahead and record straight through and

36
00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,879
make the part two seamless, so we can even have

37
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,599
a good train of thought. Well, computers are our friends.

38
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,759
Except for today and everything that we recorded disappeared, and

39
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,439
so here we are. The Luckily Neil was available and

40
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,719
we were able to record this just the moments before

41
00:02:26,759 --> 00:02:30,360
we were going to publish this episode. So if we

42
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,560
are redundant in any way, I seriously apologize, but I'm

43
00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:36,840
going to try my hardest not to ask the same

44
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,800
questions as I did on episode number one. So, Neil,

45
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,199
let's talk about your book, The Longest Shot, Jack Fleck,

46
00:02:47,319 --> 00:02:49,919
Ben Hogan and pro Golf's greatest upset at the nineteen

47
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,360
fifty five US Open. I wanted to see if we

48
00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:00,800
could go over like how the tournament went by round

49
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,919
and knowing that in nineteen fifty five at the US Open,

50
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,360
they played four rounds, right, they.

51
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,479
Speaker 3: Played, Yeah, they played four rounds, and I remember we

52
00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:17,520
were touching on this a little bit in part one.

53
00:03:17,719 --> 00:03:21,039
They played four rounds in three days, so they played

54
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,159
thirty six sols the final day, and they actually did

55
00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:31,360
that up until nineteen sixty five. Sixty four was the

56
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,680
last time they did that, and that was after kin

57
00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:40,520
Venturi won at Congressional in this terrible heat and he

58
00:03:40,599 --> 00:03:45,639
practically collapsed. And after that they went to four rounds

59
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,680
in four days. But they're still playing thirty six on

60
00:03:48,719 --> 00:03:51,520
the final day in nineteen fifty five, and of course

61
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,360
in this particular US Open, it went an extra day

62
00:03:56,439 --> 00:03:58,719
because they needed a playoff, right.

63
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,879
Speaker 1: And in that four day, and this is the thing,

64
00:04:01,919 --> 00:04:08,199
that blows me away. So Ben Hogan was not well.

65
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,560
I guess he was fully recovered, but still he was

66
00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:13,800
probably in a lot of pain from the accident or

67
00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:16,800
still sufferings from some pain. And he had to walk

68
00:04:16,879 --> 00:04:20,920
the entire thirty six holes. And you wouldn't call the

69
00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:24,000
Olympic Club in San Francisco a flat golf course.

70
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,079
Speaker 3: No, it was not an easy walk for him. And

71
00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:34,199
he he would get back to his hotel at night

72
00:04:34,759 --> 00:04:40,040
and rest. He'd crawl into bed and rest for the

73
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,680
next day's round, and then when he got up in

74
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,040
the morning he did the same thing. I think ever

75
00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:48,480
since the accident. He had this roughly a two hour

76
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,160
regimen of prepping himself to go out to the golf

77
00:04:52,199 --> 00:04:56,600
course and play a tournament round of golf. And that

78
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:03,040
was soaking in a hot hot water, bats up for

79
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,279
a period of time, and then he rubbed a linament

80
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,759
on his legs, he wrapped his legs and elastic vantages,

81
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,759
and he kind of suited up almost like a you

82
00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:14,480
think of a of a football player or something. But

83
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,680
that's what he had to do to go out and

84
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,600
play golf. And he walked. You know, players told me,

85
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,399
including Jack Fleck, he He looked a little gimpy. He

86
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,480
had a little bit of a limp and his legs

87
00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:32,399
get hurt and they they would get stiff. But that's

88
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,759
that's what he had to do to play. And he

89
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,680
was he was definitely a gamer. He was he didn't

90
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,759
want to go another eighteen that's for sure. When they

91
00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:44,000
got to the place where it was there's going to

92
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,639
be a playoff, but he went. He went to thirty

93
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,160
six holes with the final day and he played a

94
00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:53,199
really great tournament.

95
00:05:56,439 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 1: And you were just talking about, you know, talking to

96
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,639
the people who are the people you know that were

97
00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:08,240
there that you had the chance to talk to in

98
00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:12,600
doing research for this book. What kind of additional information

99
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,240
beyond Jack Fleck, What kind of additional information and insights

100
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,399
were you able to get in doing the research for

101
00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:18,759
the book.

102
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 3: Well, I actually flipped to the page in the acknowledgment,

103
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,680
so I'd feeble to recall the players I talked to.

104
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:33,279
But I talked to airy Ball, who is he's over

105
00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:40,399
one hundred, he's still alive. He played there. He's been

106
00:06:40,439 --> 00:06:42,920
around so long that he was friend with Bobby Jones.

107
00:06:43,399 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: Kid. You not wow?

108
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,319
Speaker 3: He played at the British Shopen in nineteen thirty when

109
00:06:49,439 --> 00:06:53,040
Bobby Jones won what they ended up calling the Grand Slam,

110
00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:57,759
so very ball was there. Tommy Bolt, I talked to him.

111
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:07,040
Tommy died I think in eight dal Finzcherwald, Doug Ford,

112
00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,600
Fred Hawkins, Walker Enman Jr. Who was a good friend

113
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,959
the Jackson played within the first two rounds, another friend

114
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:22,480
named Mike Crack, Geene Letler, Shelley Mayfield, Arnold Palmer, Bob Rosberg,

115
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:30,920
and Larry Thomasino. So there were some players, definitely, there's

116
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,199
still probably about a dozen or so players around that

117
00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:38,240
played that tournament, that played in the nineteen fifty five

118
00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:40,519
US Open, And there were a few that I didn't

119
00:07:40,519 --> 00:07:44,199
get a chance to talk to, and there were a

120
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,000
few who have passed on since I talked to them.

121
00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:50,639
And I was so grateful to be able to talk

122
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,959
to Tommy Bolt, who's a Hall of Famer, and Bob Rosberg,

123
00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,600
who you know some of your I guess forty and

124
00:08:01,639 --> 00:08:05,399
over listers will remember as a long time on course

125
00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:11,720
reporter for ABC. He also passed away not terribly long

126
00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:17,199
after I talked to him. And then another club and

127
00:08:17,279 --> 00:08:19,959
touring professional named Shelley Mayfield, who in his day was

128
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,240
quite a good player and was also a pretty good

129
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,839
friend of Ben Hogan's later on. So it was very

130
00:08:27,879 --> 00:08:30,319
helpful to be able to talk to them and very

131
00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:34,960
interesting to get their perspective on the tournament, this particular

132
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,639
tournament on Hogan on the golf course, and how that

133
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,639
opened set up, and how difficult it was to play

134
00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:45,480
there that week, and the.

135
00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:49,440
Speaker 1: Stories they were telling you. I can't imagine that Jack

136
00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:52,120
Fleck was a big part of their story from what

137
00:08:52,159 --> 00:08:54,960
they remember of that weekend until the end.

138
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:03,399
Speaker 3: That's true. Some of them knew of Jack. They knew,

139
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,919
you know, as we talked about in the first part,

140
00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:09,840
Jack had been playing tournament golf, but he wasn't well known,

141
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,679
so they might have recognized his name, they might have

142
00:09:12,759 --> 00:09:18,320
seen him around in tournaments. But guys like Rosberg, who

143
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,759
was a pretty good player, he was fairly young. He

144
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,080
was he was younger than Jack at that time, and

145
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,440
he was kind of trapped as one of the up

146
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,480
and comers. He said, he told me, he said, I

147
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,759
didn't really know Jack at that time. I didn't know

148
00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:34,919
Jack Fleck. He said, I knew who he was, but

149
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,759
I hadn't really been around him much. And he got

150
00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:41,000
to know him a lot better later on. In fact,

151
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,039
just kind of a little side note.

152
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,720
Speaker 1: I love the side notes, love the sad notes.

153
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 3: Jack's last victory on the PGA Tour, he had three

154
00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:55,720
was he beat Bob Rosberg in the Bakersfield Open, and

155
00:09:55,799 --> 00:09:58,799
I think his nineteen sixty one in a playoff. So

156
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,960
he had to our victories, and one of them came

157
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,480
against Rossi, and interestingly too, all of Jack's wins came

158
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,639
in playoffs. But now Arnold Palmer, getting back to who

159
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,879
I talked to and what they knew of Jack, Arnold

160
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:21,600
told me that he did know Jack, and that kind

161
00:10:21,639 --> 00:10:24,600
of surprised, but he said, I knew who Jack Fluck

162
00:10:24,759 --> 00:10:27,279
was and I played golf with him prior to that week.

163
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,240
But what he told me was he said, we all

164
00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:35,879
knew Jack was a good player. You know, he was

165
00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:38,480
gracious in his comments. He acknowledged that Jack could play,

166
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,960
but he said, you know, none of us really thought

167
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,159
of him as being an open contender, which made sense

168
00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:49,480
because Jack had only played in two opens. He missed

169
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,519
the cut and one the other one he'd finished fifty seconds,

170
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,679
So he's just kind of coming out of nowhere in

171
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,639
a sense, and some of the other players A couple

172
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,639
of his pals were Walker Im and junior Mike Krack,

173
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,879
who are discussed in the book. Walker is really kind

174
00:11:11,919 --> 00:11:15,080
of a prominent character in the book. They're rookies on

175
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,320
the tour and they're kind of no namers too really,

176
00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:25,480
so uh, most most all these players, they were caught

177
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,399
off guard by Jack's performance.

178
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,840
Speaker 1: As well, And that's what makes it such a great

179
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,200
story because it was it's just the little train that good.

180
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:41,159
I mean, he just came out of nowhere. How many

181
00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:42,759
times did Jack win on the tour.

182
00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 3: Well, he ended up winning. He won three times, and

183
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,399
this was his first win.

184
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,039
Speaker 1: This is first of three wins on the tour, and

185
00:11:51,159 --> 00:11:55,320
each of the three you're saying we're all in playoffs.

186
00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:58,399
Speaker 3: They were all in playoffs. He won the thick five

187
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,279
US Open, sort of coming out of nowhere and shocking

188
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,080
Pogan in the world really, and then he won his

189
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,320
next win. He had a bit of a slide after

190
00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:17,360
the Open. His game went into decline.

191
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 1: In what sense and no please expand on that.

192
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 3: Well, he I think like even like you'll see with

193
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:30,759
some players nowadays, he did have some opportunities after he

194
00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:35,679
won the Open to do exhibitions. He went to New York.

195
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,279
He was able to sign some endorsement deals. He was

196
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,559
like the nineteen fifties version of an instant famous athlete

197
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,759
and celebrity for a period of time, and as someone

198
00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:54,480
who'd come from fairly humble means, he felt like for

199
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,759
his famili's sake, he needed to do what he could

200
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:05,159
to caplies on it. And it was estimated at that

201
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,639
time that US Open was worth maybe something like fifty

202
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:16,960
to seventy five thousand dollars in terms of opportunities, financial

203
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:24,960
opportunities of course, income exhibitions, endorsement deals and the like. Well,

204
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,039
that was pretty good money. And so he wanted to

205
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,039
be able to do that stuff. And I think, like

206
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,720
a lot of players, he thought he'd be able to

207
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,320
maintain his game. And he was trumpeted for a while

208
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,159
in the press too. Is this this player who'd beaten

209
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,240
the greatest player in the game. But it got him

210
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,000
off track somewhat, it got him out of his routine,

211
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,399
and it definitely affected his game. So he doesn't his

212
00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:58,080
game doesn't really He goes off the tracks somewhat, and

213
00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:03,600
once things kind of die down, he really starts to

214
00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:08,080
get back on track. In the late fifties, and in

215
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,639
nineteen sixty he got his second win on tour at

216
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:18,240
the Phoenix Open, and that arguably was his best year

217
00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:20,720
in golf in terms of his play, even though he

218
00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:23,320
didn't he didn't win something like the US Open that year,

219
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,039
he was very competitive and he probably could have easily

220
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,399
won three times that year.

221
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've talked to one other PGA player I'm blanking

222
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,039
on his name right now that I got a chance

223
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,120
to play with him. But he played for twenty years

224
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,279
on the tour and he was complaining he only won

225
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,559
four times, and it's like you won four times on

226
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,120
the tour. Yeah, but I played in almost two hundred events.

227
00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:57,679
But so when you say it was his best year,

228
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:02,840
he had top five top ten finishes that year. Not

229
00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:05,360
only winning the Phoenix Opened was his third win also

230
00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:08,679
in nineteen sixty.

231
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,559
Speaker 3: He won his third win in the following year in

232
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:15,519
nineteen sixty one. But this is one of interesting things

233
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:20,879
about trying to figure out more about Jack Fleck and

234
00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:22,919
even some of these other players who I didn't know

235
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,399
as well. You know, I'd heard of Tommy Bolton versus

236
00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:29,840
Ogan and Snead and Fince Jerwold, some of these guys

237
00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:34,519
i'd heard of, but Fleck and Hawkins and these some

238
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,519
of these other players who were they were good enough

239
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,720
players to play out there, you just haven't heard much

240
00:15:40,759 --> 00:15:42,879
about them because they didn't win a lot. And then

241
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:46,639
what you find out was that they had some near misses.

242
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,679
And Jack, if you look at his PGA tour record,

243
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,799
I think he had over two hundred and forty starts,

244
00:15:56,559 --> 00:16:02,200
and he had something he had over forty top tens.

245
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:05,840
I've got it right here. He had five. He had

246
00:16:05,919 --> 00:16:09,840
five seconds, so five runner up finishes in his career,

247
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,240
six thirds and forty one top tens. And one of

248
00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:18,360
the interesting things I think, at least when you read

249
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:23,080
this book, the fifty five Open and the dramatic playoffs

250
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,480
and all of that, how that all came about is detailed,

251
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:29,200
and that in itself, I think is a terrific story.

252
00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:32,559
But there are also a few chapters that follow it,

253
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:39,840
and we follow Hogan and Fleck after there's an aftermath,

254
00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:44,320
and I tell the story that some of your listeners

255
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,120
will probably know about the nineteen sixty US Open play

256
00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:51,720
to Cherry Hills, which is where Palmer came back in

257
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:55,720
the last round from seven strokes behind and one that

258
00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,399
was maybe that might have been the greatest US Open

259
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,360
ever played, just because it was so exciting. There were

260
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,799
so many guys that had a chance. But I detail

261
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,759
that Open as well because Hogan and Fleck are on

262
00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:16,920
the scene and with literally a few holes left to play,

263
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:23,599
they're right there. They're at one point, Hogan, Fleck, and

264
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,839
Palmer are tie in the final round with you know,

265
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,039
not many holes left. A lot of people probably might

266
00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:35,119
not know that Jack Fleck very nearly won another Open

267
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,839
and Hogan had another. He had at least two more

268
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,039
very good opportunities to win that record fifth Open after

269
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,839
you lost the Jack at Olympic in nineteen fifty five.

270
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,200
So it's it's fascinating, really and I wanted to be

271
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,400
able to tell that because myself, when I researched this,

272
00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:05,200
you finished the playoff and you reached this this exciting finish,

273
00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:08,119
and it's a tragedy for Hogan and it's this great

274
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,440
achievement for the underdog Fleck. And then to me, at least,

275
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,319
I thought, what happens to Jack Fleck after he wins

276
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:21,680
the Open? What happens to Hogan Logan at the ceremony afterwards?

277
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,880
In an Olympic in nineteen fifty five announced his retirement

278
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:32,279
from golf. WHOA, he was really disappointed, but that retirement didn't.

279
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 1: Last very long obviously.

280
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was back to the Masters the next spring.

281
00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:40,119
He just you know, he lived to play tournament golf.

282
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but he was deflated. So when Palmer won

283
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,359
in nineteen sixty, it was And again I really think

284
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,480
that we covered this the first time. We did part

285
00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:53,680
two of this conversation, so I want to get into

286
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,359
it in some depth. And please, if you remember me

287
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,079
talking about it in the first part, stopped me. But

288
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,440
in nineteen sixty, when Palmer wins it, the media coverage

289
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,240
is dramatically different than it was in nineteen fifty five,

290
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:13,440
especially the television coverage, correct.

291
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 3: I think, so I didn't look into data as closely

292
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:21,279
as I looked at fifty five.

293
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: Well, then let's talk about the nineteen fifty five. What

294
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,920
television coverage was in nineteen fifty five, and what happened

295
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,720
specifically with the US Open that year on TV.

296
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 3: I think one of the fascinating things about this tournament

297
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:42,720
was with NBC covering it. It's the second national telecasts

298
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:46,440
of the US Open, the third national telecasts of any

299
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,920
golf tournament, and they have an hour of coverage on

300
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,200
the final day, which is Saturday. It's not Sunday, it's Saturday.

301
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,480
They're playing thirty six goals and Lindsey Nelson is the

302
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:03,160
announced and Gene Sarazon, golf legend who had won the

303
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:07,400
US Open, is doing the color commentary. And it's a lot.

304
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:16,200
It's definitely primitive television by our modern view of TV.

305
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:22,880
But they have an hour of coverage and it's from

306
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:31,319
five o'clock to six o'clock Pacific time. And Hogan. We

307
00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:35,720
may have talked about this before, but what was interesting

308
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:42,519
back in those days TV didn't dictate as much how

309
00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:47,640
these tournaments were played and even how the pairings were

310
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,039
set up and what went on. And at that time

311
00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:57,640
was when you went out on the final day as

312
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,480
a player, whoever they paired you in the third round,

313
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:06,759
you just kept going with that guy. They didn't repair

314
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,000
after the third round, which the fourth round has played

315
00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:13,319
the same day in the afternoon, so it wasn't they

316
00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:18,440
didn't reorder anyone or repair anyone based on score. So

317
00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:24,039
Jack is actually behind Jack Fleck is behind Hogan. Jack

318
00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:28,359
Fleck's paired with Jean Leitler, They're only about three groups

319
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:33,000
behind him, and Hogan's paired with a fellow named Bob Harris,

320
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,240
and he finishes an hour before Jack Fleck. And when

321
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,359
he finishes, the television coverage is just coming on. So

322
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,480
it works out really well. And I have a sense

323
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:50,680
that maybe the USGA had Snead, who was up there too,

324
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,200
in contention until he sort of faltered a little bit

325
00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:56,400
down the stretch. Snead and Hogan and some of the

326
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,880
other those players had them. They're top set up so

327
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,880
that they would finish during the television cutach. But when

328
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,240
Hogan finished, he shot a seventy in the final round.

329
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,319
It was his best score out of the four rounds.

330
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,200
There were very few scores under seventy on that course.

331
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,920
It was so difficult, and everybody thought he'd won. When

332
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,279
he finishes, it's about five after five TVs just come on,

333
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,599
and Jean says and comes rushing across the green with

334
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,640
a microphone to congratulate Hogan and interview him, and basically

335
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,599
more or less said, you know, you've won your fifth Open.

336
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,359
And he even asked Hogan to hold up his hand

337
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,240
to signify five, hold up his hand in his five

338
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:53,759
thinkers and what I understand is that Hogan started to

339
00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:56,559
do that, and then he caught himself. He realized, you know,

340
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,759
wait a second, you know this, it's not over, And

341
00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:05,839
he said that and he went. He finished the interviewed

342
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,200
it with a very short interview, and he walked up

343
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,480
the slope to the clubhouse and into the locker room

344
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,880
to wait for the official end of the tournament and

345
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,240
got an ovation, and people thought it was over. He

346
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,559
was five shots a head of Snead and both who

347
00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:27,440
were tied for second. Those are the scores in the clubhouse.

348
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:31,039
There's no one else out on the golf course who

349
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,000
has a chance, who really even has a mathematical chance,

350
00:23:36,079 --> 00:23:40,200
except this one player. Jack flex.

351
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: How many strokes was fleck back when Hogan finished? Approximately?

352
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: Jack, You know, they didn't. I really sort of had

353
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,200
to try to piece that together with the research because

354
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:02,559
they didn't have the sort of the modern scoring in

355
00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:05,839
the real time scoring that they do now. But as

356
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:13,519
best I could figure out Hogan's finishing and flecks around

357
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:16,039
the eleventh or calf fole, and he's about an hour

358
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:22,160
behind Hogan. And at that point when Jack finally got

359
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,359
confirmation that Hogan was finished, and in the clubhouse at

360
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,119
two eighty seven. There was a marshall out on the

361
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,480
golf course with a walkie talkie and he came and

362
00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:35,400
sold Jack when Jack came off the thirteenth green, And.

363
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,079
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, walkie talkies in nineteen fifty five

364
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,359
was a two tin cans with a string in between, right, Well,

365
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:43,519
you know, I.

366
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: Think the winks were actually these were actually pretty good

367
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,079
walkie talkies because they were made by the Motorola Company,

368
00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:55,200
and I think they were like army walkie talkies. Okay,

369
00:24:55,319 --> 00:25:00,759
this represented somewhat advanced technology for that time time period.

370
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,599
But Jack finds out when he walks off the thirteenth

371
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,359
green that Hogan is in the clubhouse at two eighty seven,

372
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:14,880
and Jack is one shot behind as he walks to

373
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,720
the fourteenth tee and this marshal named George Tompkins, he's

374
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,799
a volunteer. He got an acquainted with Jack during the

375
00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:27,799
week and he's kind of excited and he says to Jack,

376
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,880
all you need is a birdie over this last stretch

377
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,079
and you can tie Hogan. And Gene Lettler, who was

378
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:45,319
Jack's playing partner that whole day and is a very reserved,

379
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,400
quiet guy, doesn't usually say a lot. He overheard that

380
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:55,000
comment and he said, Drolie, he said, he'll need a

381
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,880
few cars too.

382
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:03,079
Speaker 1: So he just he needs over the last six seven holes,

383
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:05,960
he needs one birdy and to par out the rest

384
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,960
and he's now he'll get to be tied or that'll

385
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,680
give him the lead.

386
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,279
Speaker 3: When he steps on the fourteenth key, he needs he

387
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,960
needs one bird in the rest. Pars to ty Hogan

388
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,400
the time. Okay, yeah, and so this is over the

389
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,000
last five holes of a really brutal golf course.

390
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,279
Speaker 1: So take us through the last five holes, because the

391
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,279
last couple of holes at Olympic are just deadly.

392
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:38,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they were. They were playing seventeen that year

393
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,039
as a par five. No excuse me, it was a

394
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:42,880
part five.

395
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: But they playing its part four.

396
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,559
Speaker 3: Change that it played it as a par four, and

397
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,400
it was. This was a This was a very difficult

398
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,319
finishing stretch.

399
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it still is.

400
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: First the first hole is fourteenth, it's a par four,

401
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,839
and Jack hit a tremendous gas pumped up, the adrenaline

402
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,319
is pumping, and he had a drive, a beautiful drive,

403
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,480
and he hit it farther than he had been hitting

404
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,680
it all week because he's pumped up, and he gets

405
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,000
out there and he doesn't want to know. He doesn't

406
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,559
know what to hit on his second shot, and he

407
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,079
can't make himself hit a seminar rom. So he hits

408
00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:18,759
a six, and he tries to ease off on it

409
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,200
a little bit, and when he does that, he pulls it,

410
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:24,839
hits in a bunker. He comes out of the bunker

411
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:30,920
pretty well, but he's got it. It's not stiff by

412
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,640
any by any means, and he misses probably something like

413
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,680
a six foot part. So he bo he's fourteen. Now

414
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,359
he needs two birdies and two bought powers to tie.

415
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:48,079
Oh my god, And he said at that time, people

416
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,160
are Hogan's done. A lot of people have seen his finished.

417
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:57,039
There's a lot of excitement. It seems like the tournament's over.

418
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,480
But people start to hear that there's one player out

419
00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:02,880
on the course. It has a chance. Jack has been

420
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,400
playing pretty well and gallery is growing. But when he

421
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,519
makes Bogan fourteen, he said that he noticed that the

422
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:19,279
gallery they didn't move. They didn't He didn't people weren't moving.

423
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:22,359
Towards the fifteenth tee, he and he thought to himself,

424
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,880
they think I'm through, you know they you know they

425
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,920
think that I can't do it now. So he goes

426
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,559
to the fifteenth and it's a part three and he

427
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,480
hits It's it's not very long, it's about a middle

428
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:38,680
iron shot, and he hits it. He hits a good shot.

429
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:41,599
He puts it on the green, he has about it.

430
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,680
He has a medium length pot and he rolls it

431
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:52,720
in for a birdy. And so now he's he needs

432
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:57,119
one more BIRDI and two parts. And he goes to sixteenth,

433
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,200
which is a long part five. He was playing over

434
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,200
six hundred yards. Even back in nineteen fifty five. Jack

435
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:11,319
Booms's drive booms of three wood, and he still has

436
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:14,680
about a nine iron to the green, and he puts

437
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,960
it on just the edge of the green and has

438
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,559
about twenty five foot part and he rolls it up close.

439
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,240
It taps in the first par So he goes to

440
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,799
the seventeenth, which is playing the toughest of any hole

441
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,240
at Olympics this week.

442
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,799
Speaker 1: Now, I have to assume by this time, when he

443
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,640
steps up to number seventeen, the TV broadcast only one

444
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,319
hour on NBC is completed. They have crowned him the victor.

445
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,359
All the East Coast reporters are here in San Francisco.

446
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,759
They've got to get their byline in and they've probably

447
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:55,319
said it's over. Hogan wins again, right, So it's like

448
00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:58,079
a finga complete Everybody is pretty much resigned to the

449
00:29:58,079 --> 00:30:00,400
fact that Hogan's won it, and you have the guy's

450
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,400
on his way up but there's no shot, and so

451
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:06,680
the presses are running, right, they're saying that Hogan's winning

452
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,480
has won.

453
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got that's that's pretty close to what happened. Well,

454
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,599
the writers or they're in the press room typing up

455
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,720
their stories because they're on the you know, it's it's tough.

456
00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:26,799
It's tough being on the West coast because you have

457
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,400
those East Coast deadlines, and they're they want to get

458
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:37,039
their stories written and transmit it via Western Union. I

459
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:41,000
think that's the way they did it then, and everyone

460
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:43,519
thinks Hogan's won, and then.

461
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also, wait a minute, do he defeats Truman?

462
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,960
That wasn't that far before that either. I mean, one

463
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:56,359
of the biggest gaffes in print journalism history was, right,

464
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,759
do we defeats Truman? Wasn't it around nineteen fifty or

465
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:04,200
forty eight? Yeah? Right, So now they're like you'd think

466
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,160
they'd want to like hold off a little bit, they'd

467
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:15,319
want before they start printing stuff that is not necessarily true. No, And.

468
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think Jack came in. I think he

469
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:26,200
actually finished. My estimate was he finished around six fifteen

470
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:32,079
local time. That the telecast went off there at six o'clock,

471
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,359
which was nine o'clock at the east, and that was

472
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,319
prime time, and whatever was on primetime television back in

473
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:43,160
those days was coming on for for East Coast viewers

474
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,279
and Midwest.

475
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: Viewers, and it was Saturday night.

476
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was somewhere on the seventeenth hole. He was.

477
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:52,559
He might have been all the way to the green.

478
00:31:53,799 --> 00:32:02,440
But there's a conversation recorded in the book between Lindsey

479
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,680
Nelson and I don't know if it's it's a TV

480
00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:11,119
man either. It might have been the director or producer

481
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:14,720
on the scene for NBC, and they had this conversation

482
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:21,519
and the fella's name was Tom Gallery and he he

483
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,759
was when NBC went off the air and Lindsay Nelson

484
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:31,799
essentially announced Hogan as the winner and winning his records

485
00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:36,519
at the US Open. This solo Gallery was uneasy about it,

486
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:42,519
and he has Lindsay Nelson was coming down the platform.

487
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,920
It wasn't a great big platform. But he sat up

488
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,039
on this platform. Gallery said to him, you think this

489
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,640
guy Fleck can birdie the last hole? To Ty Hogan

490
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,559
and Lindsay Nelson said, I don't think so. There's just

491
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,119
too much pressure on him.

492
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,839
Speaker 1: That's great, Yeah, that's what everyone thought.

493
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:07,359
Speaker 3: Sure there. In fact, there was a writer for the

494
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,880
Fan Francisco Chronicle who he just threw some odds on it. Now,

495
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,200
this is before Fleck got to the eighteenth tee. But

496
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,920
when Fleck was out there and he needed a couple

497
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,359
of birdies and a couple of pars or one birdy

498
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,839
in three parts, he said, he's got about an eight

499
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,359
thousand to one shot. This guy from Iowa that no

500
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,559
one knows anything about. All these great players were having

501
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:34,400
a really tough time getting through this closing stretch of

502
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:40,559
holes just making parks. It was really difficult. You're looking

503
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:44,160
at a course where the average score was well, I

504
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,000
think I mentioned to you before, only only fourteen players

505
00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:52,720
broke an aggregate score of three hundred, and the first

506
00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:56,759
round only half the field broke eighty. It's a very

507
00:33:56,759 --> 00:34:04,079
difficult golf course. Right, Jack came in and he tied

508
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:07,400
the best score of the tournament. On that final round

509
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:09,599
he shot at sixty seven to catch hope.

510
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:17,639
Speaker 1: What do you do on seventeen and eighteen? How did

511
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000
he end up doing? Where did he make the next Bertie?

512
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: Well? Seventeen Again, was playing extremely hard and a lot

513
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,880
of players, believe it or not, we're talking nineteen fifty five,

514
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,119
we're talking wooden headed clubs, and these guys were good players.

515
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,639
But this was a four hundred and sixty one yard

516
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:43,719
part four the second shots up a slope. Most of

517
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,719
these players were not putting the ball on the green

518
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,400
in two shots. That's how hard it was. Jack hit

519
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,639
a great hit, a big drive, and he hit a

520
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:56,719
three wood and he knocked it on the green and

521
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,280
he very nearly made the putt for birdie. There had

522
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,079
only been a handful of birdies there all week. If

523
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:05,880
he came away from there with a part, you were

524
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:09,960
very happy. So he comes to the last hole and

525
00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:13,239
he needs a birdie to tie, and he knocked his

526
00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:16,719
He hit a three wood there all weeks to control

527
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,119
his teeball. Didn't really need distance, but just sort of

528
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:23,000
knock it down into that valley and then you have

529
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440
a short iron shot up up the slope to the

530
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,760
green and he put it just in the edge, very

531
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,480
edge of the first kind of rough about six inches

532
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:38,199
off the fairway, which I think actually worked out well

533
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,800
for him because the ball was sitting up nicely. He

534
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,360
was fortunate wasn't sitting down in the grass, and the

535
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,639
pin was on the sort of on the right front

536
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:52,320
of the green, so he had to make birdie, so

537
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,960
he had to go. He really had to go right

538
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,719
out the flag, but with his ball toward the left

539
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,000
hand on the side, just off the edge of the

540
00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:07,800
fair hit the most favorable angle, and he hit a

541
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,280
high seven iron from about one hundred and twenty five yards.

542
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,559
He didn't want to hit an eight or nine because

543
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:18,559
he was afraid he put too much spin all on

544
00:36:18,639 --> 00:36:22,000
the ball and it would hit and it would spin

545
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:24,159
off the front of the green because the green sloped

546
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:28,239
from back to front. So he hit this sort of high,

547
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,679
dead armed, dead hands seven iron that would come down

548
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,920
and just hit like a stone and not spend very much.

549
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:45,400
And he practiced that shot. He knew what he wanted

550
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,679
to do, and he just executed it really well, and

551
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,840
it flew up there perfect distance and just a little

552
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,519
bit to the right of the pin, and so it

553
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,199
landed and came to us seven feet from the hole.

554
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,840
So he's got this seventh foot putt and he's got

555
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,320
to make it to ty Hogan.

556
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,599
Speaker 1: The longest seven foot putt of his life.

557
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this people read the book, well, they'll learn

558
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,880
that putting is not the strength of Jack's game. But

559
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,480
his putt, his putting was better this week than it

560
00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:26,679
had been before. And he added this good feeling in

561
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:32,119
his hands. And the remarkable thing is he said he

562
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,800
wasn't nervous. He was he was just he really he

563
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,480
just went up there and he looked at it. And

564
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:43,440
one writer who wrote for a lot of the golf

565
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:48,679
magazines said he only took twenty four seconds, which probably

566
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,760
wasn't unusual in those days because the guys didn't take long.

567
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960
And it was it didn't. There wasn't much to this

568
00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:59,199
fight other than obviously the moment, the biggest part of

569
00:37:59,199 --> 00:38:02,760
his life, the putt that could change his life. It

570
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,000
broke maybe an inch from right to left, and he

571
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:10,679
just hit it perfectly, and it rolled and it dropped

572
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,039
right in the left center of the cup.

573
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,679
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, phenomenal.

574
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,559
Speaker 3: And Hogan. Hogan's sitting in the locker room the last

575
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:24,159
hour with reporters gathered around him and they're getting you know,

576
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,079
every few minutes, they're getting updates on Flack and when

577
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,280
the putt rolls in, while other reporters said the building

578
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,679
actually shook, it felt like a small earthquake. There was

579
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:44,159
just this huge spontaneous ovation and rumbling.

580
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: And in San Francisco, it could have been the earthquake.

581
00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: That's right, it could be definitely, definitely. So Hogan is

582
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:58,159
shocked by this too, because he really he thought he'd

583
00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:03,760
want and I believe that when he came and he

584
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,880
prepared and he and he and he signed up the

585
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,800
Olympic Club golf course, he saw the way it was

586
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,679
set up. This is a man who's won for the

587
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,880
last six US Opens. He was great, a great player

588
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,079
who was really tough in he opened because he knew

589
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,519
how to play these tournaments. I think he shot the

590
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:28,440
score he wanted to, and he said he thought he'd want.

591
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,559
He really thought he'd want, and he did. He beat

592
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:38,440
everybody else by at least five shots. So this guy

593
00:39:38,639 --> 00:39:40,000
comes out of nowhere and ties.

594
00:39:41,039 --> 00:39:47,159
Speaker 1: Wow, well I think that obviously he ties, and they

595
00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:49,840
need to do It's an eighteen hole playoff. The next day,

596
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,280
right on Sunday.

597
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:54,119
Speaker 3: That's right.

598
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,119
Speaker 1: So now that we all know that that Fleck won,

599
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,360
I think what I would like to to advise the

600
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,840
golf smarter audience to do is buy the book and

601
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,719
get the details of that playoff round and find out

602
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:14,960
how Fleck beat Hogan, how he was able to step

603
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,599
up and go toe to toe with one of his

604
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,400
idols and not back down and be able to beat

605
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,320
ben Hogan to win the US Open in nineteen fifty five.

606
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,280
I think you should go get the book. I really do.

607
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:32,679
It's called The Longest Shot, The Longest Shot, Jack Fleck,

608
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,920
Ben Hogan and pro Golf's greatest upset at the nineteen

609
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,840
fifty five US Open. Kindle version or you can get

610
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,239
the hard copy version, have it sent to you. And

611
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,199
I'm sorry Neilie interrupted you. What were you about to say?

612
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: Oh no, well, I'm sorry. I didn't want to interrupt.

613
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,199
Speaker 1: You, but because I was plugging your book.

614
00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:54,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, Hey, I love that. I should have

615
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:57,960
never set a beat. But one thing I was able

616
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,760
to do that people will be treated to when they

617
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,320
read the book and the playoff is when we get

618
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,320
to the playoffs, we go shot by shot and tell

619
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,960
you know, set the scene and tell everything that's going on,

620
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:14,679
and we're able to go shot by shot because Jack

621
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,119
is still with us, and there was a shot by

622
00:41:18,119 --> 00:41:22,960
shot account of the newspapers, and Jack remembered it, and

623
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,679
there was a lot of good information. Plus the Olympic

624
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,920
Club historian who was thirteen years old at the time

625
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:39,840
and followed that playoff. He's still around and he read

626
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,400
my manuscripts and I talked to him and I did

627
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,320
everything I could to get that playoff and exactly what happened,

628
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,280
you know, get it down and so people would be

629
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,159
able to see what happened. And I think it's.

630
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: Pretty interesting, very interesting. It's a great story. I'm glad

631
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,199
you were able to figure out that it hadn't been

632
00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:01,199
written any U went ahead and and jumped all over it.

633
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,159
And again I advise everybody in the audience to if

634
00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:07,719
this kind of story fascinates you, then you've got to

635
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,320
pick up this book. Should also check out You have

636
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,760
a regular ongoing I guess that's redundant. Sorry, you have

637
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,679
an ongoing blog that you do on golf. Is that true, Neil.

638
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called Armchair Golf Blog. And that's really what

639
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,880
led me to this story just through the process of

640
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,280
writing a blog and making contacts and people writing emails

641
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,800
to me. I got it to to give Jack Fluck

642
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,039
a call, and I wasn't planning on writing a book,

643
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:42,079
but when I discovered this story and Jack was interested

644
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,079
in working with me, I just thought, what a great opportunity.

645
00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:46,119
Speaker 1: Great opportunity.

646
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the blog is something I still do. People can

647
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,920
read it. I update it almost every day so well.

648
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: We have links to it in the last episode and

649
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,199
will of course include links into this episode as well.

650
00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:03,280
Neil Sagabat, thank you so much for saving my butt

651
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,840
again and returning to finish this story that disappeared from.

652
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,840
I don't know where or how, but I really appreciate

653
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,880
you saving me on this one. Thanks so much.

654
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: But it's been a real treat for me. Fred, and

655
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:21,320
I really appreciate you wanting to talk to me about this.

656
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,599
Speaker 1: My pleasure. Best of luck and good luck with the blog.

657
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Fred,