WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:04.799 Oh hey, it's the contact lens that's definitely in the 2 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:08.480 wrong eye. Alie Ward back with a long awaited episode. 3 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:10.560 I've had my sight set on this ologist. I've been 4 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.640 waiting to have her on literally for years. She's a 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.359 busy dame. She's all over the news, she's leading movements, 6 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:21.760 she's communicating science. She's tomping through salt marshes checking on 7 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:25.280 little birdies, collecting data, and then just getting a dang 8 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.359 master's degree in it. So this ologists got her bachelor's 9 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:31.960 in zoo and wildlife biology from Alone University and just 10 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:36.719 got her masters studying bird conservation at Georgia Southern University. 11 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:39.479 I need to calm down. I need to chill out. 12 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.119 I'm so thrilled for her. I'm so excited about this. 13 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.079 We finally got to do this interview now that she 14 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:46.920 has like two seconds to breathe. I've followed her on 15 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:49.439 Twitter for a few years, and I've always had just 16 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:51.520 a huge science crush on her. I've always wanted to 17 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.240 have her on the show. She's hilarious and warm and smart, 18 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:59.200 and she's so dedicated, so informative. We've done ornithology already, 19 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:03.200 and I wasn't sure which ology would be the most appropriate. 20 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.079 So we chatted before we rolled on the interview. When 21 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:07.920 people think of wildlife ecology, I think a lot of 22 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.000 them are like, I love being outdoors, I love where 23 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.280 human animals. How can I be a wildlife you know, 24 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:16.159 without being a veterinarian or someone who ends up on 25 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:21.200 a tiger documentary? Right right, anything under that umbrella, like 26 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.000 or the wildlife ecology umbrella would be totally cool. 27 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.799 All right, cool, we can focus it on field work. 28 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.760 Yeah, So there's a lot of talk of fieldwork, and 29 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.000 also there's a lot of cackling on my end because 30 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.359 she makes me cackle a lot. But before we get 31 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:37.560 the interview, a quick thank you to everyone who's submitted 32 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.920 questions for this ologist. At patreon dot com slash ologies, 33 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.560 it costs just a dollar a month to join that 34 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:47.319 behind the scenes family. Thank you to everyone who sends 35 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.760 the podcast to friends and families and exes and bumble matches. 36 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.519 Everyone who subscribes that helps so much, and everyone who 37 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.079 rates and leads reviews keeps it up in the charts. Also, 38 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.959 you know, I creep on them like someone hiding in 39 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.519 a bush with a pirate telescope, and then I pick 40 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.040 one to read each week. This week, thank you to 41 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.360 Radar the Cat who wrote imagine getting a pedicure with 42 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.840 your girlfriend while howling with laughter about toadspooping. You will 43 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.120 laugh out loud the most unlikely, hidden and obscure scientific 44 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.960 marvels and cry sometimes too. So thanks to everyone who 45 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.280 left for reviews this week. I saw them all. They 46 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.960 warmed my paternal heart. Okay, onward, Wildlife ecology. What is 47 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:27.439 this field? 48 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:27.919 What is it? 49 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:28.319 So? 50 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:32.199 It involves studying animals in their natural habitats and figuring 51 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.719 out what effect people have on animals and then coming 52 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.919 up with scientifically sound solutions for conservation and to protect them. 53 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:45.199 So critter learners and protectors. Some wildlife ecologists are out 54 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:47.719 in the field a bunch checking on their animals. And 55 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.960 one thing I love so much about this ologist's psychom 56 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:53.879 is how she brings us into the field with her. 57 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:59.919 So in this episode we talk about seaside sparrows, wetlands, saltwater, marshes, 58 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:06.240 fluffy mud, getting laughed at by birds, sweat swamps, nests, snails, 59 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.759 whether or not you should ditch your bird feeder, midnight minx, 60 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.800 and practical fieldwork dilemmas that will shock and maybe change 61 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.039 you forever. So gear up, hunger down, and get ready 62 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:22.919 to observe the majesty of bird nerd ornithologist, zoologist, one 63 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.719 of my favorite scientists and someone I'm honored to possibly 64 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:47.759 introduce you to. Wildlife ecologist Karina Newsom. 65 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:51.919 My name is Karina Newsom, and I see her pronouns awesome. 66 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.080 You are a wildlife ecologist? 67 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.439 Correct, yes, yes, yes, indeed, how. 68 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:01.159 Many ologists have you been because you've also been a zoologist, 69 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.800 you're an ornithologist, Like, let's count how many how many 70 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:05.479 we call you? 71 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:09.639 It's been a few ologists. I think. I started out 72 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:12.840 in the realm of wildlife, messing with beetles like a 73 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:15.280 beatle hotologist. There is a more official name for. 74 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:20.160 That coleopterology, study of beatles and weavils. Say it with 75 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:20.639 me now. 76 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:24.000 And then I moved over to zoo keeping and focusing 77 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:26.920 on zoo science, so you know, zoology may be a 78 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.360 more appropriate term there. And then now ornithology has become 79 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:32.480 really my whole life, and so most of the work 80 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.560 that I do now, whether it's you know, field science 81 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.759 or it's community outreach, it's centered around ornithology. 82 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.839 When did you kind of end up if you will 83 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:47.000 migrating down that ornithological path. How did you feel when 84 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.439 you started in the zookeeper world? Can you tell me 85 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:50.240 a little bit about that. 86 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:54.199 Yeah, so birds really started singing my name. We just 87 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:57.240 want to roll with the punts here. When I was 88 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:01.000 forced to take ornithology and undergrad, which I was definitely 89 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.360 not excited about because I knew nothing about native birds, 90 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:06.199 and that's what the kind of class was focused on. 91 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.839 It was a field class. But when I got into 92 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:11.560 the class and I was introduced to the blue jay, 93 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.279 something about the blue jay is so magical, the beautiful colors, 94 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:18.040 the mimicry, the cognition, all of it together, I really, 95 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.720 you know, immediately was fixated on birds and have been 96 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:23.680 chasing them ever since. And so even though I didn't 97 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.879 necessarily study birds until further down the line in grad 98 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.879 school recently, starting in twenty eighteen, that's essentially when my 99 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.800 migration direction was oriented. That ornithology class set me on 100 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:37.319 my course. 101 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:42.079 Was it something also about their behavior? Blue jays are corvids, right. 102 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.120 Mm hm oh yeah, yeah, And I know, you know Kaylee, 103 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:47.439 who's the corvid queen. 104 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.279 See the twenty eighteen Corvid Sanatology episode with doctor Kaylee 105 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.439 Swift aka Corvid Research. On Twitter, we discuss crow funerals. 106 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.199 They sometimes involve small orgies with the dead. Yes, but yeah, yes, 107 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.000 Along with pros and ravens, blue jays are a corvid. 108 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.639 Corvids in general are simply the most incredible birds, and 109 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.079 they are also the birds that I think get the 110 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.240 most hate, you know, between the ravens and the crows. 111 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.519 People think the blackbirds are kind of bad omens associated 112 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.160 with death, you know, think about the birds the Hitchcock movie. 113 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:21.319 All this, right, they're not aggressive, creatiousness. They bring beauty 114 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.959 into the world the chaos. Some people don't like blue 115 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.720 jays because they can oftentimes scare other birds off the 116 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.720 feeder because they either directly kind of just like push 117 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.439 birds off, or they can mimic the sounds of raptors nearby, 118 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:35.519 and so the birds think there's a threat that's not there. 119 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.279 But you know, they can very much manipulate their environment 120 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:39.319 to get access to the food. 121 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:41.560 But to me, that's just like a mark of their 122 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:46.839 incredible cognition and like there's no end to the tunnel 123 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.519 that is corvid's and then we're always learning so much 124 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:53.079 about them. They can use tools, they can build tools, 125 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:54.920 like there's just really no limit. 126 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.920 I know that they always take the peanuts that I 127 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.639 put out for their crows and the ravens first. They 128 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.399 were always like I'm in and them out and they 129 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:04.240 get all the peanuts and I'm like, well, I was 130 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:06.839 leaving those out for whatever bird got them first. So 131 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:10.240 blue jays, you were less afraid to get the peanut. 132 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:11.920 Peanut is yours. 133 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.800 Every picture you see of a blue jay there's a 134 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.480 peanut or two in its mouth, So that makes sense 135 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:17.720 to me. 136 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.399 Yeah, like the ballsy bird gets the nut. I don't know, 137 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:27.839 there's something about what it is. But what did like, 138 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.560 tell me a little bit about where you grew up. 139 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:31.720 You're from Pennsylvania. 140 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.879 I'm from Philadelphia, which in theory is in Pennsylvania. But 141 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.439 if you're from Philly, do you not associate with Pennsylvania? 142 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.040 I got no idea stand. 143 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.120 It up in the What is it like for someone 144 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:45.720 growing up in Philly? Like what kind of wildlife or 145 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.800 what kind of animals or zoos did you grow up with? 146 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:52.439 So as an adult, I'm realizing that there was a 147 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.439 lot more wildlife around that I was aware of. I 148 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:59.639 didn't really have like environmental educators in my academic or 149 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:01.959 you know, educational experience as a kid, so I was 150 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.160 not aware of it. But apparently we got everything from 151 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.439 like coyotes to big old snapping turtles to all kinds 152 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:10.920 of birds. Growing up. The only thing that I really 153 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.680 noticed were like the robins every few years, you know, 154 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:16.399 when they would migrate through. My mom would be like, 155 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.639 the robins are back, and that was really all that 156 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:20.800 I noticed about the birds. And of course we would 157 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.839 occasionally see a nice gray squirrel. We also would like 158 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.240 find these brown little snakes, which I still don't know 159 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.000 what they are, and my memory they're just kind of 160 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.639 like seared in my mind as a brown snake that 161 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.799 we would find in a field. So I didn't think 162 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:36.840 there was a whole lot growing up, but apparently there is. 163 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:40.320 But we do have a really awesome zoo called the 164 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:44.320 Philadelphia Zoo, which is the first zoo in the country actually, 165 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:48.080 which is not great historically, right, zoos not start out 166 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:52.279 as like honorable institutions whatsoever for people or wildlife, but 167 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.440 they are now real conservation leaders in the realm of 168 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.159 wildlife conservation. And that's actually where I got my start 169 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:03.519 in wildlife conservation. When I was offered an internship at 170 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.519 the zoo. There was a sister of a friend from 171 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:08.480 my church who was the lead carnivor keeper at the 172 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:10.799 Philly Zoo. And she was a black woman from like 173 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.679 my general neighborhood. And it was just it was almost 174 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.559 like my stars aligned and that's that's how I ended 175 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:18.159 up getting through the gates. 176 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:20.519 And she was a carnivor keeper. 177 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.360 The lead the lead cartivor keeper. 178 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:28.240 Yeah, kind of meat freezers were involved, Like. 179 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.879 So she would she really, She took me behind the scenes, 180 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.240 showed me literally everything from the meat freezer is to 181 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.440 like the stacks of paperwork to like reading in danger carnivors. 182 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:43.120 Like she she specialized in giant river otters. Actually yeah, 183 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:45.360 and like I still have a note in my purse 184 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.320 that was ten Oh my god, that was ten years ago. 185 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:50.159 She wrote a note for me when I was eighteen, 186 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.159 like if you want to study giant outers because that 187 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.519 was really into it. She was like, call this number. 188 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:57.000 It links you to South America, to this woman who 189 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:00.200 I have that note with me to this day, just 190 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.960 in case the birds turn on me. 191 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.159 But what a passport just into like if you're into this, 192 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.759 there's a home for you. 193 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.799 Look seriously and I can't never forget it. 194 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:15.840 At the zoo. Did you ever get to put on 195 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:20.559 the headset and be like and this is you know? 196 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:24.159 You know I did. I put on that mic. Yes, 197 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.879 So whenever I had the opportunity to to like either 198 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.200 yell or put on some sort of like voice amplifier, 199 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.200 I absolutely did it. It was it was weird because 200 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.720 I was absolutely I lied my way through the interview 201 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:34.679 for that because I should. 202 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:34.840 I was. 203 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:36.480 They're like, do you like talking in front of people? 204 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:38.320 I had never spoken in front of a crowd of 205 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.879 more than five people in my life. Oh I love Yes, 206 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.039 I love crowds. And they're like, you know, do you 207 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.240 like kids? Can't stand kids, couldn't put me in the 208 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.600 nursery at church, could do not put me near a job. 209 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.279 I was like, yes, I love the children, you know. 210 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:52.480 And I got the job and I was I went 211 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:55.000 in shaking and sweating. But like I by the end 212 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:58.000 of my first internship, I when I tell you the microphone, 213 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:02.240 the amplified voice, me gathering crowds to tell them about 214 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:06.360 what look that was like where I thrived? Yeah, yeah, 215 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.399 what did you love so much about it? I like, 216 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.679 I started to realize that, like excitement was infectious. So 217 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.000 I was never faking how excited I was about the 218 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.399 information I was sharing, And I realized that when I 219 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.440 was very obvious about how excited I was. At first, 220 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.639 I tried to be reserved, but when I really started 221 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:24.159 to kind of let it out and let it loose, 222 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.240 I was like, everybody in this room is excited now, Okay, 223 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.279 So we just kind of kept feeding my energy around 224 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:34.840 the educating of the public about wildlife and so it yeah, 225 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:35.320 it was. 226 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.480 It was incredible, and you still obviously are doing that 227 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.159 on Twitter and on Instagram, like you're one of my 228 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:44.799 favorite science follows. You're one of those like very much 229 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:50.039 hashtag ff This person immediately can rich your timeline. You 230 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:55.279 are welcome seriously follow hood Naturalist on all platforms. You 231 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.080 are welcome in advance. Karina is amazing. Okay. So she 232 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.039 got her bachelor's in zoo and wildlife biology and went 233 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.360 back the zoo route doing environmental education there. But she 234 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:08.279 says that life can be tough as you're working your 235 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:11.519 way up the ranks in zoos. Though you may love 236 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.600 the job, you could have just graduated college but making 237 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.759 nine bucks an hour. So she had already begun doing 238 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:22.360 research as a senior in college, answering questions about carnivorous beetles, 239 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.320 and she decided to head to graduate school. And you know, 240 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.240 in a zoo, you take animals and you put them 241 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.759 in your environment, but when it comes to field work, 242 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.360 you were doing the exact opposite, pretty much by nature. 243 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:35.759 What was your. 244 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.360 First kind of field work expedition? 245 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.879 So my first entrance into field work was actually in 246 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.519 graduate school. So after graduating undergrad, I had worked as 247 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:48.600 a zoo keeper for almost four years, and you know, 248 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.039 as I said, always kind of oriented toward birds. I 249 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.279 was like, whatever I do next, I wanted it to 250 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.559 be about birds and studying birds. And so when I 251 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.159 started applying to grad school and looking for an advisor, 252 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.600 I found one who was studying the kind of research 253 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.120 I wanted to do. She was in South Georgia, and 254 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.679 so I did a phone interview with her, and she 255 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.279 saw my resume that had never been in the field before, 256 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.080 which was it was just concerning can be concerning, particularly 257 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.360 in a place like South Georgia, where it's super hot, 258 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:18.519 the insects are otherworldly, and there's just a number of 259 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.720 factors that might scare someone away, but she took a 260 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.279 chance on me. Right. So this city girl, you know 261 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:27.720 what I mean, really kind of like not about surprising bugs, 262 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.120 went down to South Georgia and started field work. And 263 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.240 so I took the call. I answered the call, and 264 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.960 I went down to South Georgia to start studying birds 265 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.679 and my first field season, I have to say. So 266 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.879 I was living in It's bizarre because it's not just 267 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:49.240 the work in field work that can be challenging exciting, right, 268 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:51.879 also the field housing where you live to do the 269 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.519 field words is its own plot line. 270 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.200 Buckle up for a situation many of us haven't considered 271 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.679 when it comes to the challenges of being a wildlife phycologist. 272 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.639 So I was living in South like on the coast 273 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.360 of Georgia, studying this little bird called the seaside sparrow. 274 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.759 And I was living on this massive property. It was 275 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.200 actually a previous slave plantation. That's a whole other thing, 276 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:15.679 oh my god. But it was five thousand acres of 277 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.200 straight up woods and I was in a small cabin 278 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.279 in the middle of it, like smack dab. And I 279 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.440 had never been in the forest in my life, like 280 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:27.000 for that long, living subjected to the whipper wills and 281 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.399 the chimney swifts that were procreating in the chimney. You know, 282 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:32.639 both birds, right, I love them when I tell you 283 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.480 they got into my head. Ali, fieldwork is a is 284 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.279 a whole, it's a it's its own world. 285 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:43.720 Let's back up a second. How, I mean, this is 286 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.000 a really naive question, but how and how do you 287 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.039 end up staying on a former slave plantation? 288 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:51.159 Like? 289 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.279 How does that? Who decides that? 290 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:58.759 Yeah? So for students, graduate students or undergraduate students, when 291 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.639 you're doing field work and you know, not close to 292 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.559 where you live, you have to find field housing and 293 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.399 usually you can either pay for it, you know, like 294 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.320 rent an apartment or something like that. But if you 295 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.000 don't have money for that, I was, you know, I 296 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:11.840 don't have money to pay two rents, right. I had 297 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.240 my own apartment back near my school, and my professor 298 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.679 it was her first year. Usually professors don't even take 299 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.360 students in their first year, but she took me. So 300 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.360 there wasn't really money to pay for me to live 301 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.519 somewhere else. And so there is this massive government owned 302 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.320 wildlife management area where they house people doing research on 303 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:31.960 Georgia's coast and it just happened to be an area 304 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.360 that was reclaimed from the owner's previous owners of it, 305 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.840 and before that it was a slave plantation. And because 306 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:45.000 of the weird culture and like very toxic and kind 307 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.799 of upsetting culture on the coast of Georgia, like they 308 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:51.720 want to preserve a lot of the structures, and they 309 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:53.399 want to preserve all the houses, and they want to 310 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.240 preserve the way it used to be. And I'm just 311 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.240 like excited, right, So I was just thankful to have 312 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.639 somewhere to live. But I was like, this is kind 313 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.159 of like very disturbing. Right. You could literally see the 314 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:08.679 houses where like my enslaved ancestors were forced to live 315 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.080 to work this land that I'm now recreating on and 316 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.879 kind of like having a blast looking for birds and 317 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.039 you know what I mean, Like it just was. It 318 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:23.159 was surreal and disturbing. Sometimes it obviously was prompted me 319 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.639 to be pretty reflective about just the fact that I 320 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:27.960 was doing what I was doing, especially you know where 321 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.320 I was doing it. No one seemed phased by it, 322 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.279 Like no one I ever spoke with there was ever 323 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.320 said anything about it. But I you know, I knew 324 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:36.960 it was going on. It was very obvious look, it was. 325 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:39.679 It was weird. I still haven't even fully processed that 326 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:43.200 that situation. Yeah, but it was disorienting a little. 327 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.600 Yeah, were there any other people of color that were 328 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:51.320 doing field work with you or was that isolating? Like 329 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.399 double and from a social level as well. 330 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:55.519 The young woman who was helping me collect data that 331 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.600 summer is with a black woman, and so we were 332 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.720 kind of weathering it together. And I told her before 333 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.159 she moved there, like, hey, this is what's up. My 334 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.200 advisor also do the same thing. Before I agreed to 335 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.680 even be in her lap. She was like, this is 336 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.920 where the research is happening. This is what I've seen, 337 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:12.359 this is what racist white people have felt comfortable saying 338 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.240 around me when I'm down here. Like she gave me 339 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.720 the whole rundown, So I didn't go in, you know, 340 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.680 not knowing what I was getting into. We basically like 341 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.000 stuck it out together, and we're extremely cognizant of the 342 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.599 way that white people were kind of interacting with the 343 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.920 land and like seemed oblivious as to its history or 344 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.319 at least undisturbed by it. But yeah, it was kind 345 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.279 of like we had each other's backs out there, and 346 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.359 the wild thing ally is that the following year twenty twenty, 347 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:40.559 this past summer, I was going to live there again, 348 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:42.359 but they were going to put me in the actual 349 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.200 house where they had the enslaved people, like that's where 350 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:46.519 I was going to have to live. And I was like, 351 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.400 y'all have y'all have lost your minds? Yeah, like if 352 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:51.880 y'all don't, man it just the whole situation is just 353 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.640 very unsettling down there, to be honest. 354 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.720 I remember you posting about that and yeah, being gutted 355 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:01.799 that that was another thing that you had to consider. Yeah, 356 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.240 in the wake of a pretty tense election year as well. 357 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.400 Yeah, so just like thank you because I didn't have 358 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:13.400 to live there because you and the ologite to the way, 359 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:15.599 is that what we're called? Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. I 360 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.000 thought I messed it up, like really like rally behind 361 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:20.160 me donated money so that I did not have to 362 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.519 live in that like you know what I mean, Like 363 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:25.480 that was going to be awful and I was able 364 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.960 to stay, you know, in a safe place, and so 365 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.720 I'm very extremely grateful, so grateful. Yeah. 366 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:35.079 So, yes, Ologites may have seen Karina's post regrammed last summer, 367 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.440 and for as much as social media could suck a 368 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:40.400 lot of us dry on the day to day. Just 369 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.799 knowing that we can use it to rally around someone 370 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.799 who deserves better is really powerful. So thank you to 371 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.960 all the ologites who saw that post and who tossed 372 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.000 in a few bucks to get fellow ologite and ologist 373 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:54.400 Karina into better housing for field work. It would be 374 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.759 so amazing if people getting a master's didn't have to 375 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:02.720 pay double rent or stay somewhere dangerous or traumatizing. But yes, 376 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.480 when you think about a wildlife ecologist, you may envision 377 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.279 things like test tubes and pipettes and butterplanets, but the 378 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:12.559 day to day realities can be much more complex when 379 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:16.480 you're doing field work in South Georgia or wherever you are. 380 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.960 Can you tell me a little bit, like, what is 381 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:25.079 the day like for a wildlife ecologist? I'm picturing. I'm picturing. 382 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:28.680 Your alarm goes off at four thirty, you are dressed 383 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.039 with some sort of rubber pants on, and you have 384 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.319 a thermos of coffee. By five am you're at the door. 385 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.559 True, that is true on Sundays, however, actually no coffee 386 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.279 because you'll get the runs in the marsh and you 387 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:46.839 don't want the runs so I was working in a 388 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.279 coastal salt marsh, tidal salt marsh. The high tide happened 389 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.119 twice a day where I was on the Atlantic coast, 390 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.039 and so your life is dictated by the tides, and 391 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.400 high tides shift by an hour every day, and you 392 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.480 don't want to be there on either side of the 393 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.720 high tide. You could very easily drown in like two 394 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.160 feet of water because of the way the marsh mud 395 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:07.920 is set up. Because when you're walking in the marsh, 396 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.720 you are in mud all the time. But sometimes that 397 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:14.880 mud just lets go of you, breaks your trust completely, 398 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.519 and you sink up to like your waist. Right if 399 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.240 you're by yourself, which is what I was for a 400 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.319 lot of the time, especially twenty twenty, as you try 401 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.000