Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast, coming to you from
the heart of Pendle Witch Country in the northwest of England.
My name is Craig Bryant, author, investigator and collector of stories.
Join me as we take a journey into paranoral, UFO sitings,
cryptozoology and big casts. This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to episode fifty six of Paranormal Pendal, broadcasting to
the Paranormal UK Network at PAUK radio dot com. So
I'm delighted on this episode. My guest is is a
returning guest. Absolutely great interview the first time round, and
I'm sure it will be equal as interesting this time round.
It's mister Ronald Kinsella. Ronald, thank you so much for
coming on the podcast again.
Speaker 3: Oh it's a pleasure, great, thank you. It's always a
pleasure to be on the Paranormal Pedal.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's absolutely great. Do you prefer Ronald or
Ronnie or.
Speaker 3: Ron ron would be fantastic, right.
Speaker 1: We shall go with that then, because sometimes people don't
always like the name shortening this.
Speaker 3: So my grandfather always used to call me Ronald. I
think he was the only one apart from the teachers
and colleagues at work, but my grandfather always called me Ronald.
Everyone else called me Ronnie or ron.
Speaker 1: Was Ronald usually when you've done something wrong then or
something not.
Speaker 3: No, it was permanent with granddad. It's just a formality.
He was in the army.
Speaker 1: So saye right, So was he quite a sort of
stickler the granddad?
Speaker 3: Yeah? He No, he was very open minded. Although he
was the most down to earth person you could ever imagine,
he was very open minded. In fact, he was the
one who told me that the Pyramids were built by
aliens when I was thirteen or fourteen. I think I
couldn't believe it. It just came out with it. And another
incident which was interesting is the fact that with Philip
and I back in the when we were young girl,
when we used to stay with him in Middlesex, the
Lovely House. They had a big house. It was we'd
go down to this Barkin bookshop and we'd pick a
book and one of them was about Poltergeist. Now, I'm
terrible because even though I had seen things we used
to take the mickey out of pictures of Poltergeist, and
this book was based on actual events and we were
laughing at it. We took it back home and we
showed Grandad. Well he went ballistic, absolutely ballistic. He took
it off as he confiscated it. He said, you don't
mess with the likes of them, and I put that
lightly what he said. He gave it as back, but
he told us to burn it, which I did when
I got home to Luton. We put it in a
wilbar and burnt it and never read it. So obviously
there was something Grandad didn't want us to dabble with,
things that he appeared to be very real. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you actually how you became
interested initially in the subject of the paranormal UFOs and
new aps. So I suppose really your grandfather was one
of the major influences then on your interest in this
sort of thing from an early age.
Speaker 3: He was, Yes, and it's not just Granddad, it's what
we saw. Philip and I had a an encounter with
something when we were very small in Bigmore House. I
wasn't going to relay this in Digital Demon, but I
thought I'd come out with it in illusions. It's not
something that people say, oh, you're adding on, you're adding on.
Because I believe I mentioned this. I think it was
in Twin Souls, a book I had published by Capel
Ben in twenty twelve. This is when I was coming
out with it. A publishing company there are folded now,
but they published the book. I don't think it did
exceptionally well. It got very little exposure, but it was
out there anyway. But it was to do with call
it the bugget big Noll when we lived on the
property of big nooor House in Chesterton outside of Oxfordshire.
I think they're Bista and the grounds it was off road.
It was private, so there was plenty of wood there, woodland.
It was near gagle Brook. We had a labrador golden
abbadoor called Prince. He was never there, never saw remardly.
He was always frolicking in the woods. He was. But
it was one of these days that we saw something
very bizarre. And the reason why I left it out
was because it was so bizarre. I mean, what happened
was that, being kids, I was picking open these reeds.
You know, you're curious as a kid. You prize them open,
and there was this kind of polystarin like material in there.
It was a polystar. I wouldn't have known what that
was then, but it was white, just curious as toddlers are.
And this thing, this little tiny bug, jumped out and
it just immediately turned very big. It was taller than
us something we're very small, being toddless, but it was
taller than us. And the only thing I can remember
of it was that it looked more or less today
like a preimantis thing. I don't know whether it had wings.
I can't entirely remember, but it made a clicking sound.
It was following us. We were horrified. We screamed and
around from it, and when it moved, it was blurry.
I remember, it was very blurry, and it made this
awful clicking sound. And that was it. I mean, the
next thing, the tears were wiped away and we were
having ice cream. So I don't know whether it was
time to placement or what, but I have no idea.
But that's in a nutshell, very bizarre, isn't it. And
then it moved on from there. You know, these strange happenings.
I will say that in all of them that I've recorded.
It will sound quite a lot in an hour or
two hour on a radio show, but over the course
of a lifespan, it's quite minimal, you know, when you
actually when you think about it, they're quite minimal these
things that happened, but when you shorten it into an hour,
so it seems quite a lot. But that's basically what
got me into this.
Speaker 1: So have you had any experiences with UFOs or anything
like that.
Speaker 3: Yes. The next major thing that happened was in nineteen
eighty two, so we were thirteen round the garden with Grandma.
I can't remember exactly what day it was. I can't remember.
I'm not going to make it fit. There was this
silver orb that came over the garden and approached us.
It was the size of a football. At first impression
was it was a balloon, but it wasn't because it
was controlled. It came over. Its height was level with
a kind of second bedroom window of a house, so
that's how high it was. And it came over and
stopped above Grandma's head. And I had a damn good
look at it. I was shocked. And it had no
scenes on it, there was no cord and had a
damn good look at it. To me, it appeared like technology.
It was silent, didn't make any noise, just hung there
above her head. And we pointed to it and said, Grandma, look,
and she looked, and she said the most bizarret thing.
She said, oh, look, the fairies have come to take
a closer look.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: I believe she was trying to alleviate any fear we
would have. Whether she'd seen them before or not, I
don't know. She never said. But it went up straight up,
and it then stopped and went over the roof of
the house, and we raced in to the building. It
was a three story house, quite big to the front
to see if we could see it. We could, and
it was just shooting off and that was it. Very bizarre.
That's like something from Doctor Who. But I imagine, or
later on, I imagine that was some type of electronic eye,
some camera or something something I don't know, something reminiscent
to the food fighters as we have, yeah of the
Second World War. But it wasn't a glow. It was
pure silver, although it was soiled. But that was the
reflection of the world about it, you know, but very
very strange.
Speaker 1: It was very very reflective.
Speaker 3: Then yeah, it's like chrome. I can use that word
now because then I wouldn't know what chrome was. But yes,
it's like chrome.
Speaker 1: So I suppose the material that it looked like.
Speaker 3: Would would we.
Speaker 1: Rule out something like a weather balloon for instance?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it moved in a controlled fashion. It
stopped dead above her head. This was control. I mean,
this is what this is what I'm quite used to
where people say, well, it's that the rossa washer and
it was a weather balloon. Yeah, I would think that
the military was a bit more wiser to actually distinguish
the difference between a flying saucer or a disc and
a weather balloon, you know, I mean, goodness gracious me.
So I get that with people saying automatically, although it
stated that, you know, atmospheric anomalies, it was nothing of
the sort. It was there and this is a nice
eighty two and it was very strange and the way
it moved it is shot off accelerated, So it was no,
that was no balloon at all.
Speaker 1: Of course, No, of course, no, it's just it's just
a question that quite obviously you get asked quite a
bit or you know, yeah, it's a statement that's that's
made quite a bit because that's the sort of thing
that people would would, you know, think of, think of
immediately after you sort of explained absolutely what you'd seen.
But there is obviously a difference between a balloon which
is at the whim of the eddies in the air
and the wind and the breeze and everything else, and
something which is being clearly mechanically controlled.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was solid as well, completely solid appeared to me.
It's solid. It's not like you know, like you and
you look at balloon, you can more or less tell
as a balloon. This was solid, just solid, like a rock. Solid.
It's the size of a football.
Speaker 1: So how did you feel afterwards?
Speaker 3: It was bizarre because I don't know, you couldn't talk
about it, although Grandma was on the phone to a
family member that night telling them what they'd seen. But strangely,
it just seemed to just dissolve into oblivion. Although it
was never forgotten in the back of your mind, you know,
it's only later on when you get older you question
what they were. You know. Of course, you couldn't talk
about it because there were poo pooing mediums back then.
Doris Stokes was hot in the early eighties, and I
remembered the terrible controversy even she caused with her readings,
where people didn't believe her. And of course the UFOs
was completely off skirt and that department, I mean, with god,
they just made a joke of it, so we kept
quiet about it sensibly.
Speaker 1: So no, absolutely, that's very interesting. So obviously this has
then had these incidents have had a big effect on
your life of the years, and you've obviously become more
and more interested and done more and more research. And
your latest book is called Illusions, Smoke and Mirrors of
the UFO et and Paranormal Enigma. Yes, fascinating in title.
Told me a bit more about it.
Speaker 3: Well, as you get older, I wouldn't say, perhaps you
get wiser, but you get more curious. And I remembered
I wanted to try and know what we're dealing with,
because I'm not quite comfortable at the fact that we're
dealing with or might be dealing with, aliens from other worlds.
It's a distinct possibility, and course arguments rage on and
on about it, but we just don't know. I haven't
got a clue what they are. So I looked into
certainly the past of encounters with aliens, let's say. And
I figured out that from the and I think I
mentioned this in The Digital Demon, the first book. Certainly
the aliens, to me looking back at it, thinking about it,
they didn't appear to have an overall kind of what's
the word I could use? There was no species that
was dominant. They were all different. You had volcans, would
you believe aliens? Jelly men, You had the Nordics, you
had pixies, you have the fairies, and we go onto
the cryptids, you know, werewolves. They seemed to change. There
was nothing really in vogue. We now know that the Grays,
the famous little, big eyed, embryonic looking creatures, are status
quo in that department at the top. And I kept thinking, well,
when did that come about, because it certainly wasn't when
Closed Encounters was released, certainly not. I'll tell you when
that came about. That's when Whitney Streeber's best selling book
Communion was published. It was the image on that cover
and then there was an explosion and I noticed this,
and I knew this was absolutely factual because everyone were
reporting seeing the grays, you know, these creatures and what's
interesting about this is is the fact that they appeared
to take on many different forms of being. I mean,
I'll give you an example. I've drawn them, I've illustrated them,
and people would comment that, oh, that's what they're like,
and others would say, no, no, they had this skin,
dolphin skin, they had wrinkles, they had this, that and
the other. And I kept thinking, well, are we dealing
with a multitude of them? Are we dealing with something
that's quite different, that may not be them at all.
Although they may appear real, I don't think we're seeing
the real thing, you know, the real McCoy, the true faces.
And one thing that came to mind, which is interesting,
it's the fact that I then thought about the AI
art that can be produced. Now, it's not real artificial intelligence.
It has to dip into reservoirs and pictures to come
up through prompts. We don't have true artificial intelligence yet.
There's still scientice fiction, although they're drumming it into us
to program computers. So I know them very well. We're
born in the golden age of them, so I know
that there's no such thing as artificial They can't think
at all. They process and the algorithms. That's what they process.
Even quantum computers cannot think. Although they call it three
D thought, it's a misconception. It's processing speed. It's all
at this speed at the moment. I dare say that
in the future they'll get clever and perhaps develop the
first thinking computer. Anyway, back to this aiart. I tried
it because I don't use it. I don't like it,
but it's very clever because being an artist, it first
of all sent shock waves. Should be thinking, my goodness,
we're going to be replaced now, but of course that would.
But of course the problem with that is copyright issues,
you see, because of so it is dipping into reservoirs
of art, other people's art, and well, I tried it,
and I realized that it cannot duplicate the same image twice.
Got me thinking about these grades. So if it is
or they are being produced by something else, is it
possible that this thing or this force or power lacks consistency.
It's only a thought, it's just a hypothesis. I'm just
putting it out there. It's in the book. And if
you will also look at the grays, they are as
I mentioned, embryonic in Nature, and I also mentioned that
more than not what I read about, certainly the turn
of the century, the fact that they're into this apparent
or alligured hybridization program. So isn't it fitting that they
should more or less encompass or take on the persona
of an embryonic kind of form. You see how I'm
going with it. Yeah. Another thing that interested me, which
I've published in Illusions, is a fact that when you
had contact tees in the past, certainly in the fifties
and onwards, whether they happened, we can't tell. We've got
no proof nothing, but we'll just go with the testimonies. Right.
So they're visited by these space beings or space brothers
they called them. And you'll notice the ships always more
than not landed traditionally, means to say that then they
came down, the landing gear, came out, the door opened,
they came and embraced the adductees, took them to what
god knows wherever. Well, I thought about that too, and
it suddenly struck me that teleportation or transportation came shortly
after Star Trek was released, because they could beam people up.
And then you saw this shift into a new kind
of phase of abductions. You know, it moved from the
traditional to the absolute outlandish, and that strengthened my case
in assuming or concluding that we might be dealing with
something else as well here that is not able to
be consistent, but is there all the same, and it
touches on things that border on almost a fantastic but
that can be kind of accepted due to the publications
and the media and the belief systems switching you sot.
I mean, you can't have a dialek walking through a
door to put the fear of God and you they
won't use that. It always has to be something just
outside basically more or less folklore or or during to
do with the fad of aliens. And another thing I
discovered was the fact that in the fifties, the B movies,
they had all these silver flying sources. Everything was silver,
wasn't it silver? Space sulf lansers were? They were silver?
In the fifties, I was, they appeared silver, And I
kept thinking, well, they've changed now, more or less to
a degree, they have changed. Why would they need to
be silver if they can implement shields, you know, not
everything has to be silver. I know, would think it
as logical because it deflects radiation and it's a strong ally.
But the point is they're more advanced than us. Wouldn't
they have for much more advanced equipment at the disposal
These things, these issues that I raised, have formed a
kind of pattern or a picture. I'm not saying that
it's new with one suggesting that they're are a decoy,
because I think Jeck Falay and some others have mentioned that.
But I'm looked more into the particular slight star trek
and the silver things like that, you know, the embryonic
nature or the appearance of these grades, to possibly illustrate
the fact that that's what they're doing, although I don't
believe it at all. I don't believe it. And this
is where it gets very messy because it's so compartnerized.
You know, people will say you are wrong, they are real,
they are here to do this there. Well, it's is
what they've been told by them. How can you trust
what they're telling you when we don't even know what
they are if they're real. For that matter, I'm not
saying that the people have imagined it. They possibly are
extremely real to them, but I don't believe this is
what we're seeing. There something else behind it. I think,
you know, how can you TuS them because we had
first of all in the fifties of them rambling on
then about their concerns for atomic warfare. They were very
concerned about it. And you have this concern magnify of
all these people. We've got to stop using this. Well,
I'm not being funny, but they all they need to do,
if they were so concerned is whip around in their ships.
Nullify because I don't know where they are. Nullify all
the missiles will build more, nullify them, we will more
one we can't use them. They've won, and it's all silent.
And then you have you see this is an illusion.
And also in the nineties then when we then shift
from nukes to the environmental issues, that was very pot
in the nineties, the grace. We're telling people the concerns
for the water, so you know, things are dying. And
they again they did nothing. And people stated that they
have done something, that they have shot some of these
salads down. Yeah, one or two, but that might be
enforcing the trick they're promoting. You know that they're not
really concerned that this is just a fad. It's very ugly,
very ugly.
Speaker 1: Indeed, sorry, is it just to sort of keep people
focused on something else?
Speaker 3: Yes, you've got it. That's it. Craz is keeping our
attentions sway from what really is going on. That's right,
you've got it. You knew, didn't you. And you have
people saying that's what.
Speaker 1: I was working out as you were explaining it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you look this way, you look the way.
We don't look this way in a particular direction. And
I've had people state that, you know, they also they're
not allowed to intervene, So that is why we have
the lack of the nullifications of our nukes. Well, that's
absolutely nonsense, because they contradicted that statement already because they're hear.
What they're doing here is they're not into it intervene.
They're doing that already, So again it's a contradiction.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So is is science fiction being it's science fiction
in the media being driven by this unknown entity or
intelligence that's behind how we? How?
Speaker 3: How we?
Speaker 1: This is another question there as well. Is it all
to do with with individual perception?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So you talk about the grays, you talk about crypto cryptids,
you talk about uh, fairies. You know, is it is? It?
Is that all to do with an individual person's perception
of what they're being shown. Do we all perceive things differently?
Speaker 3: I believe so, because subconsciously we all know about were wolves,
we know about aliens, or most of us do you know,
we know about pixies, fairies, things like that. It's just
interesting that they become these things. You know, as I said,
you can't have a dialect. They couldn't have a dialect
coming through your bedroom wall in a flash of light
because it would be absolutely ridiculous. They would absolutely scream
with laughter. And that's the whole point. You see, these
things don't cause that it might cause disbelief that people
actually stop on question they think about these things, the
were wolves, the pixies, the varies, the bigfoots, the aliens themselves.
You know, it's it's just on the fringe, the cusp of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's sort of fantastical up to a certain point,
isn't it. But it's not taking it into the realms
of Like you say, if suddenly you were let in
bed and a darlic appeared at the bottom of the bed,
you'd think, hang on a minute, what's bought. If a
shadow person appeared at the bottom of your bed, or
even if the gray aliens oddly appeared at the bottom
of your bed, you will be shocked and you will
be fried. But it wouldn't have that same ang on.
I mean, it there's a Darlok at the bottom of
the bed, it wouldn't have that sort of effect. It
would It would have the effect that they want to
have the effect on you, and not that ang on.
I mean it's something that's not riiety sort of effect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would if that would show that this force
or this power, whatever it is, knows is very very well.
We'll take the airships as an example. I did some
work on them the eighteen nineties, the wave of exotic airships.
I mean there were airships around I think Henry Gifford
was a designer an engineer who developed a steerable one,
a combustion one, so they weren't uncommon. But people started
seeing these very peculiar looking airships as you and I
and many others know about. And they even flew so
low as to where actually drift over towns to begin with.
One crashed in Judge I think it was judged Proctors
near his property. I think that was his name. Forgive
me if it's wrong. I have got it all done.
There's so many names and things going through my mind.
But it exploded and there was a strange little man
in there. Well that couldn't have come from Venus or Mars.
There's no way it could have traveled from there. But
it's just this again, and demonstration of this force, of
this power, utilizing man's own innovations, but just pushing them
ahead slightly, a little bit more forward, you know. Very bizarre,
isn't it.
Speaker 1: It is so my original question before I got sidetracked
by my second question, was that it is science fiction
being driven? Is science fiction in the media being driven
by this this intelligence?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it could well be. Who knows. I
mean that's quite possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And is it? Is it in order to get
as you to the idea of let's say, you know,
teleportation or warp drive or phases you know, or food
bank replicators that can just produce anything that your program
into them, you know, in the seconds? Is that? Is
that what's going on in the media? Do you think
possibly trying to brainwashes into believing that these things are
perfectly normal and they're going to happen.
Speaker 3: Or is it?
Speaker 1: Is it something else? Do you think?
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that narrative itself is interesting because
I think we our souls will develop those things in time. Absolutely.
I mean you had to fly with the teleportation system,
the disasters of that, with the phases Star Trek and
the food banks as well, which is unlimited, which is
amazing from Voyd Durant, certainly from I think Jean Luke
Picard's era of Star Trek. But I don't know. I
tend to think that something is watching what we're doing
and is aware of our progress at all. And that's
what I want to state about this back engineered technology.
Let's move a little bit further back to nineteen forty seven,
the very famous case of Roswell, the Roswell crash of
nineteen forty seven. If that had exotic hardware in there,
people are arguing that it's reverse engineered. You know, they're
trying to do that. But my argument is, and I'll
put this politely, I could be wrong. I could be wrong,
and I don't have any proof. It's just a hypothesis.
I stated that, wouldn't it be more like one of
us handing the Victorians full of our modern day mobile
phones with the Americans cell phones and asking them to
replicate it, because surely unless it was more or less
compatible with our own tech back then, which I don't
think it would have been, no way, how on earth
are they to discern what they've gone? You know, do
they work on nuclear fusion? I don't think so. Do
they use couple wiring? I don't think so. You see
where this is going. So that is bizarre and it's stuff.
I'm not saying that they haven't because I can't prove that,
but it just seems a little bit too far fetched.
If that did happen, If the rods wallship did crash,
I believe there is something to that. Actually absolutely, I'm
not going down any other avenue with it, but I
do believe that something very exotic crash there because the
military first he announced that they had in their possession
of flying disc to then change it or altered, as
we all know, to a weather balloon, and I think
they could discern the difference. I don't blame them for that.
I actually don't blame them for doing that, because if
they had something exotic in their glass, they would then
understand the magnitude of what they actually had, you know,
so they would stile. And of course they also did
it for the benefits of other countries, because if it
was publicly known, categorically proved that they had in possession
a flying desks for another world or dimension, the other
countries will raise eyebrows that think, well, what have you got?
Paranoia was set in, you know what exactly why did
it land on the United States soil? Why didn't it
land in India or Russia or China or the UK?
Why the Great America? So it will take a lot
of people off. So I think they did the right thing,
But of course the whole thing is muddied. You know,
you have some people writing books roswell the truth. Well,
the truth would only appeal to that particular narrative because
we've got none. Most of the people sadly have died,
they've passed away, so we're never going to know. It
becomes an enigma, you know, and we're left scratching our heads.
It's not our own, it's not our fault, any of us,
you know, we're just trying to find the truth of this.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, it could it could have been
a lot more dangerous for the Americans to actually admit
that they had something, because then you've got the Russians,
the Chinese, anybody else would say, well, i'ng on a minute.
If you've got it, we want it.
Speaker 3: That's right, Craig. Absolutely, it becomes a snake pit.
Speaker 1: And it could of course, you know, it could have
created you know, problems where we could we could have
ended up some countries may decided to go to war
over it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's another point I'd make. If they were delivering technology,
this was a trojan horse, as I mentioned in the
Digital Team, I think five years ago. Now, it doesn't
make any sense because I'm going to have to question
that because why on earth will there be sending advanced
equipment to a race of people or humans who have
just left the Great War, the Second World War? What
would we given them tech for? You know? And if
that was another question. The completely stumped me about this
Roswell's ship. And it doesn't make any sense that if
it had crashed, I mean, surely it would have had
back up and sos something nothing came. That's what caused
me to believe it might have been a trojan horse.
And of course we had other crashes across the world.
There were other crashes as speculated, but the ships were
all different, and I kept thinking, well, could it be
the same thing sending different packages making them look different
along with the pilots so as not to raise eyebrows
as the same species is having the same problem in
crashing on Earth. You know, it didn't make any sense
to see where this is going. It's like you think
you have something, but then you're completely thrown back a
then you're not back. This is the trouble with this subject.
You think you're getting somewhere, you're gaining traction, but then
you're completely yet you're completely thrown back.
Speaker 1: Is that the ghosts absolutely? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the paranormal, the ghosts, which I do believe
are real. The poltergeists are real. Absolutely, things like that,
you just can't It's as if it's you get if
you get too close, you think you get fingers burn.
You just can't get there, you can't touch it. It's
very fascinating but frustrated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you think you've answered the question and then another
question pops up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on, It goes on
and on and on. No, that's that's interesting. I've never
heard of that sort of premise with regards to Roswell before,
and actually it makes an awful lot of sense. Yeah,
it was something which was sent as a decoy because
you're quite right, I mean, as a as a race
of species. I mean, we've had two hugely destructive world
wars within the space of about thirty years, twenty twenty
twenty years. We just come out of a of a
massively destructive global war, and of course we'd well said
we that had been the use of nuclear weapons for
the first time. So you know, why would an alien
race suddenly land in the middle of the desert in
America with you know, equipment and technology that was far
advanced of our own at the time, Because you could
bet your bottom dollar not unintended that we would use
it for the wrong purposes.
Speaker 3: That's right, Absolutely, especially in the hands of the military.
No disrespect to them. I mean, you can't blame maybe
like kids in a sweet shop.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Another point about this is the fact that some clever
clocks mentioned that I actually stated the trojan horse I
came out with. I kept it quiet until I came
out with it five years ago because I keep thinking
and thinking about this, and I've got some new ideas
about it as well. But some clever clocks I also mentioned,
isn't it funny? Isn't it that apart from Procter the
judge procertor, I think I think that was Give me
if I'm wrong. I do believe that's of the eighteen
nineties when the airship, that exotic ship exploded and crashed
in his God destroying his prized blods. He's concerned about
his prize bloods? Are they blesses? Are? But you know
they appear to land in kind of rural regions, not suburbia,
And some clever clocks said, well, that's because there's more
land than there is built up areas well. No, absolutely not,
that might be factual. But the emphasis of this is
is that they actually do crash in rural regions and
there's probably a reason behind it. So again, it strengthens
the trojan horse hypothesis, but it completely backfires in regard
to what they are delivering unless it's something else we
do not know about the military too, unless they depositing something,
maybe not technology, but something else. You know, it interested
me when I saw David Grush being interviewed at the
congressional hearing where they're trying to force disclosure, which between
you and I believe we're never going to have because
it's so drawn out. The aerospace tech companies or whoever
has these alleged ships in storage and their pilots or
they need to do is just shift them to somewhere
else and by the time they've got the key to
unlock it, they've got you know, it's those things. You know,
it goes on and on and on. But he mentioned
about them being non human bio bio something he called them. Now,
this is very interesting. They didn't call them aliens as
we that. Yes, it's something off world, but certainly it
did appear to me when they stated that, or he
stated that, if it is to be believed, of course,
I don't doubt him. There must be something to it.
I don't think the deceiving is why would they do
that that they're probably closer to home. Someone mentioned the oceans. Well, yes,
the oceans a vast and sources have been known to
be seen by crew members on ships, you know, breaking
the waters and hovering for a bit before they shoot off,
or Antarctica. It just struck me as very strange that
he would refer to them as non human and not alien.
That's very interesting what he stated. As I said, Craig,
I don't think we're going to get any disclosure at all.
We never have, and you know, the trouble is people
publish more and more books stating they know this and
they know that, but we all we can do is
trust our own judgment. It's like my encounts. I accept
the fact that people might deny them. That's fair enough.
If you don't believe it, that's fine. You know, we
are entitled to our own opinions, our own beliefs, and
I'm quite cool with that. You know, if they call
me an out and outlier, let them do it. I've
seen them. I don't know what they are. I won't
call them alien or things from other worlds because we
just don't know what we're dealing with. It. It's very
something supernatural.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or multi dimensional or anything along those lines. Just
going back to the new book, you mentioned in the
new book about Skinwalkerrange. Yes, I'm just interested what your
take is on that, because that is that is something
which is very much in the paranorimal stroke Cryptozoology's stroke
UFO headlines most of the time. You know, there are
numerous film crews go there all the time over in America,
and you know, people make pilgrimages to go to this place.
And I don't really actually know an awful lot about it.
It's not something that I've really sort of interested myself in,
because I do sometimes think that these sort of things
are sometimes a little bit contrived in order to to
you know, make financial gains and that sort of thing. Yes,
so I really don't know much about it, and I'm
just wondering what you would take is on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's in Utah, a section of land that belonged
to a family who reported extremely bizarre incidences like polticist activity.
One family, the last family who only performance taken over
from the Scientific Institute. I believe they had seen a
huge wolf. I mean this wolf was massive. I think
his head came to their shoulders right snaking down towards them,
very friendly, beautiful eyes, and then he turned and was
interested in the calf. So he went for the calf,
and they got their shotguns and they shot him, and
it dislodged a piece of flesh, but it didn't seem
to you know, hinder him at all, But he did
trot off and they followed him and his tracks disappeared.
So I believe it's a paranormal hotspot. If these things
are happening, as stated, I think there is something to
it again, because I believe there is evidence to support
this through the families or the incidents. But prior to
the Scientific Institute taking over, you know, I believe that
what they're doing is they're exciting this phenomena because, as
you rightly stated, Craig, it's cryptic, it's paranormal, it's aliens,
is everything. It's a mismash of everything there, you see.
So the more they study it, the more it's going
to play with them. It's like a toy to it.
They're like toys to it, something to play with. That's
what comes to my mind. And I don't think they're
going to find out what it is because this thing
has been around for perhaps millennia. You know, it's been
with us for a long time. I mean, we had
were wolves, and I believe the seventeen hundreds they were
reported even further back, certainly, I think it was was
it the French king or someone offered a reward for
the execution of it, and they believe they caught it,
but the killing still occurred. People's heads off well back then.
So I think there is something to this Skinwalker ranch, absolutely,
and you can't blame them for studying it. I admire them.
I mean I love to go there, Yeah, absolutely, Philip
and myself would love to go there to feel what
we can pick up or I mean we're not special,
but certainly you using your mind and that this thing
also is able. I believe to actually it's connected to consciousness.
It would be quite logical to suggest that because I
believe there was a story of them installing cameras in
that ranch, and it evidently knew where the cameras were,
and I don't know whether it destroyed them or did
something to them, you know, So it's playing with them.
They're being played with. It's very I would imagine that
would be a paranormal hotspot, just like the Bermuda Triangle was.
That's gone quiet, isn't it. The Bermuda Triangle. Well, planes
used to disappear. All the pilots report seeing different things
as they're flying through this strange lands appearing and then
they compass goes and then they they find out that
they've lost time or whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think I mean you're talking about
sort of periods in time where there's the sort of
sort of particular sort of subjects were phenomena, shall we say,
that are in vogue at the time.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: So you know you were talking about source of shaped
UFOs that land with feet and you know, a sort
of alien type creature comes out and it's covered in
silver foil and all that sort of thing that was
very much involved in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: So the weard of triangle land, which was sort of
what nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Would say more so the seventies and eighties very hot then, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: So do you think again that was part of this
sort of program of misinformation that were being fed to
sort of keep us looking in the wrong direction. Yes,
and they and the Bermuda triangle was very much the
in vogue thing for that sort of period of time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. It shifts, doesn't It shifts? It seems
to shift. And people say location is key, No, I
don't believe that is the case. I think mind is
key here. Mind is key because it seems to know
where you are. I'll give you an example where one
of the stories I published in there was to do
with the wonderful Martin Groves, the deputy sheriff, respected police
officer thirty odd years ago, maybe more than that now,
where him and his mate went turkey hunting and the
land between the lakes and they saw these werewolves. They
encountered them. They were real. It was grinning down at him.
For God's sake, I mean, it was horrifying. So it
knows whether and they were alone. They were in the
middle of nowhere and they were alone, and these things
found them. So I believe it's not location is key.
I think they've got that wrong. I'm going to say
it's mind is because it doesn't matter where you go,
what you do, it will follow you. And as certainly
as I've seen, I've watched no end of fascinated by
the programs on YouTube. There's one what lurks beneath and
the hosts there. We had him on radio or a
while ago, and he's absolutely fantastic. Josh, And you know
a lot of these cases, even he is like yourself
and us. You want to try and question this all
and you have to where people when they're like secluded
or alone or minimum people with them. These things happen
and more than not in the national parks in America
as we all know about. You know, we've heard the
stories of the national parks, very strange things occurring. Or
as Martin Groves published in his wonderful book The Land
between the Lakes, the incident with the world was there
and they were completely in the middle of nowhere. There's
no one around them, no one. They sat up camp
and they were there. They appeared. So I believe it
follows people. So in regard you're quite right, Craig, in
regard to people of Triangle, it could be these things
that in vogue or you know, the hotspots shift and
also the manner in which they are conveyed shift. So
I'm going to have the Skinwalker Ranch. What's going to
be next, you know? I mean, and what is it
with that area that causes this. I don't think it's
anything to do with the air. It's belief because the
Shamans didn't. They put a curse on Skinwalker Ranch a
skin walker, so it was a curse enforced by many
of the tribe for their enemies. So they created this curse.
So something it appears, was evidently listening.
Speaker 1: So you think it could be this going back to
what you started talking about initially, then this sort of presentity,
this sinister.
Speaker 3: Yes, accorded the Atomic Magician the closest I can get
to it Chris Evers in his Outer Limits magazine he
published the first take on it. So because I mentioned
the Star Trek, and I mentioned the Soul, and I
mentioned all these other busin pieces, and I thought, it
seems to me the only word I could put it
into human words, it's the Atomic Magician. It's very weak,
I know, or lame, but it's the only thing I
can think of, you know, something Calling it something like that,
it becomes real. And the fairy lights, now, I don't
know if Martin Grove saw them or others, but more
than not, they're reported these little balls of lights. I
even assumed that's probably them or what they're to transpire
into they arrive. And these balls have been portrayed even
in Disney cartoons, you know, like we have Sleeping Beauty,
the little fairies were portrayed as little glowing balls of light. Yeah. Absolutely,
you know, so is it taking heed to even our
own Disney, the Disney Empire. Is it taking Heyden listening,
you know, watching, you know, it's fascinating. We just don't know,
but these incidents do happen, and they're horrifying, absolutely horrifying.
Speaker 1: Yes, involved, Yeah, I mean the question that I was
I was trying to get out earlier on before I
went off Donorstingent was the whole science fiction thing. I mean,
is it science fiction that's driving our perception of this
atomic magician? Or is it the atomic magician that's driving
science fiction?
Speaker 3: No, I think it's our science fiction driving that thing, right.
I think it could only be because the innovations Henry
Gifford of an example of the airship, although flight wasn't
you then? I mean the first aerial craft to take
flight was a kite, So man's ambition to actually fly
like the birds became realized wonderfully. But something else might
have been taking notes observing it. And it's just strange
that these things are always slightly more of us. I'm
not saying all of them. I'm not saying all of them.
Could it be possible that the grays, a faction of
them are genuine and it knows of this and it thought, well,
this is good, you know, this is marvelous, this will
be Then you think I've got an actual more or
less face to toy with the others with. I'm not
saying it's playing with us in the manner of a child,
you know, happy with toys. It's something far more sinister,
and it would ultimately, I think or concluded it must
have to do with fear. I mean, let's take the
grades for an example, the research I did into them,
they always, more than not, there will come in the
dead of night when you're half naked, you're vulnerable, you're asleep,
and they appear by your beds. Now, what kind of
entity would do that? If they know us very well,
they would understand our customs and our ways, So why
would they do that to put the fear of God
into you. I've also heard of accounts where they're bringing
dead relatives aboard. What again, that's actually terrible because they're
actually obviously drumming it out of the mindset they're victims.
I'll call them victims and portraying them for them to see,
to perhaps make the scenario a little bit more comfortable,
even though they are horrified or they've got we've got
Dad here, you know, Dad saire with them, my goodness,
or to confound them again, as you mentioned, Craig, and
we have stated to look this particular way, so you
don't look somewhere else, you don't see through the visage,
the mirage of them, whatever's creating this, you know. Yeah,
it's that being caught in a spell, isn't it. It's
not being caught in this spell, this terrible spell, until
it's all over and done with. As again, I'm just
it's this mini hypothesis which is punching these things out,
you know, who knows?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there are My brain is whizzing around
about a million miles an hour at the minute, trying
to trying to think about what the ramifications of all
this is, because I mean I started to think when
you're talking about that, then about well, you know, if
you bring in real engine into this, for instance, I mean,
could you be looking at something which we have perceived
to be something demonic or something which is very devil like,
which is manipulating us for its own for its own purposes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, it seems to be belief. Yeah, although although
it has concentrated to a degree on the manner in
which it appears. I believe even the men in Black,
a lot of them were this thing, you know, I mean,
you know the men in Black were this force. After
when they've had an encounter. It makes it even more terrifying,
doesn't it. There are so many different kinds of creatures reported,
certainly in the National Parks. I mean, you know that
it just struck me as being too much, just too much.
And this is what narrows it down logically, although we're
talking about something that's completely illogical, logically it would now
it down to something sinister. Do you know what? It
reminds me of the wonderful, brilliant Stephen King, a wonderful
master horror writer. Absolutely love that man.
Speaker 1: He wrote a book called it. I knew you were
going to go there in.
Speaker 3: That Yeah, Penny, why is the clown? Yeah? And this thing,
this thing could change into people's worst nightmare. I mean,
I mean, I love mister King, absolutely do. I'm actually,
I will tell you now I boasted little bit. Although
I'm not boastful at all. I've got an ego to Bruce.
We heard from him. I'd sent him Philip and I
had sent him a copy of our science fiction book. Oh,
it was twenty ten, many years ago. And although the
King himself, the wonderful King, did not write back, his
secretary wrote back. And I also sent some images of
my reptilians with this book, some of my pencil drawings
in when I drew in pencil of these reptilian beings. Well,
he kept them and he kept the book, and he said,
mister King is very pleased to hear from you. He
couldn't endorse our book because we wanted them to endorse it.
So it would have been around twenty ten, because the
dear man, you know, is so busy, my goodness, you know,
but he wished us well with it, and so I thought, oh,
my word, is such a lovely gentleman. We've heard we've
actually touched the edge of Stephen King. We've actually touched
his world.
Speaker 1: But I'm a very bizarre world it is as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But the thing is that it was a genius
thing to conceive, because we are dealing with something like that. Now,
has that in itself cottoned onto this best selling, international
award winning author's mind to conjure these things to enforce
its program of deceit? Who knows, but certainly there are
similarities to that, and mister King's marvelous it. And I'm
referring to the actual original TV series, which I enjoyed better,
no disrespect to the movie makers of the film. That's
for the new generation, but referring back to the original
mini series, which I absolutely adorre. And that thing was
something from the multiverse, so, you know, an inter dimensional
kind of entity. I know he portrayed it as a spider,
a giant spider, but the emphasis is there, you know
what I mean, something quite different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and something that's that's controlling all manipulating us. No,
it's it's it's quite quite bizarre that because I think
probably about twenty minutes ago when when when you were
telling me about the book, I started to get an
image of a clown. Yeah, went through my mind, and
it was exactly that sort of control in devious entity
that that I was getting a mental image of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the only thing logically that I can try
and think of. I mean, as I said, I might
well be wrong, but it would seem that the proof
is in the pudding basically, you know, I mean, when
you rationally look at it, you've got as yourself you're
Marvelus was such a sl dig whereas others don't. Do
not be disrespectful that people saying no, you're wrong, they
don't look into it. It's like time travel. I'll just
touch on that, just very briefly. I've denounced it, and
I've been attacked already for that. But you see, time
is in itself an illusion. Time was created by man.
There's no such thing as time. It's a mere measurement.
What are they going to drive the machine through? Hgu
Welds had a beautiful vision and it was fantastic, but
unfortunately time is not a reality. This is why I
keep thinking. I said to Philip, my brother, you know,
when we look at the universe, we're using our own time.
The universe does not pandit to it at all, has
nothing to do with time, nor does these things perhaps
entering our realm. You know, we have only just created
time as a form of measurement. So you know, think
on that. You know, for the people who will denounce it,
it would cause a lot of controversy because I'll be stating, well,
you're wrong. There's people from the future where when how
we need proof and we've got nothing. Even with this
subject mere speculation.
Speaker 1: It's it's just a way of quantifying the difference between
and point being in your life, Isn't that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? The point is we are always in the now.
We have created the past. There are memories, the future
is aspirations, what is to come? We have developed mental
models of these, so it becomes dogmatic. But the point is,
and the truth is, we are only of the now. Man,
it's created time. If we think of that, then you're
going to make progress, or people make progress with this
ideology of you know where they're coming from, because I
don't believe it's time. It's it's soft. There might be
something else. And I've mentioned this in illusions, but I'm
not going to state it on here. But it's certainly
not time. There might be something else to it, but
it's not time. Do you know?
Speaker 1: That is really strange because where I live, we have
a cricket pitch in the middle of the village and
it's it's a big or green space, which is which
is is sort of like you know, a communal area
that people can go and walk the dogs and so on,
and all the way around it are part benches that
people have donated when they've lost loved ones, and there's
obviously there's there's usually a little plaques on to say that,
you know, this particular bench has been donated by such
and such a body. One of them that I walk
past with the dogs on a regular basis actually has
an inscription on it, and it does say and I
and this is this is honest truth. It says time
is an illusion. There is only now.
Speaker 3: Wow, do you know what that was meant to be, Craig,
I was meant to hear that. You know what? That is? Freaky,
isn't it.
Speaker 1: When I take the dogs for a walk tomorrow, I
will take a photograph of it, and I will I
will pop it on my Facebook page and I'll send
you a photograph of it.
Speaker 3: Wrong. Oh wow, that's okay.
Speaker 1: Just really it is, isn't it. I really really spoke it.
But it's it's a it's a phrase that after the
first time I saw it, it's a phrase that's stuck
with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's absolutely true, absolutely true. You know, I
was I was sucked in. Don't get me wrong. I
was sucked into time travel when I was younger because
I was ignorant.
Speaker 1: And so that's exciting, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the idea. I mean, I'd love to
go back and see the Tarana source recks at a
safe distance, of course, because I'm fascinated with that beast.
But there's no way around it.
Speaker 1: Actually, no, absolutely not. That's just that's that's just blow
my mind a little bit. That To be honest, I
think that's a really good point for for you to
to tell us where we can get your book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's available from Amazon because the mainstream publishers
won't touch up with a barge pole feeling well, I've
been very naughty, and now I have. I've mentioned some
things about the government as well, which aren't very positive.
Very lightly but not very positive. I've been brought up
to know my manners to be respectful, but some things
just need to be addressed. A few things. The book
is available from Amazon. It's called Illusions, and it's published
by Philip mentor the wonderful Philip Mentors Find Dispress, and
it's available as hard back, paperback ebook. And also the audio. Now,
I love the audio because it's an American and he's
got a kind of tongue in cheek voice. I love it.
You know, it gets the message across THEO. But it's
got a smashing voice obulous.
Speaker 1: I'll definitely have to chat that out then. It's been
an absolute pleasure talking to you, O. Thank you. You've
You're one of those guests that I remember the first
time I sport to you, when when I when I
stopped recording and I went away and thoughts about what
we talked about. You left me with a with a
hell of a lot more questions than I had when
I first started to speak to you. And I think
you've done it again.
Speaker 3: Well it works vice versa. You know, we we need
we we bounce off each other people, this is what
we need.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely No.
Speaker 3: A lot of people have ego and they won't give
anything out, whereas if you bash it out. Always said,
if you have a room full of researchers, you might
get somewhere with the chalk board and a stick of chalk.
Speaker 1: I think I think a health and discussion on this,
on on these sort of subjects is interesting. I think
it's stimulating. I'm sure the people that have listened to
the podcast have found it as fascinating as I have,
because it's certainly again it's one of those subjects that
really does raise more questions than than answers.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely said this in way this the proof. There's
no proof, but.
Speaker 1: Sure, I'll sleep very well tonight.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: It's been absolute pleasure on Thank you so much for
coming on and helpe speak again soon and good luck
with the book. Never never mind about the publishers. They've
got absolutely no idea. Philip Phillips, the man isn't he
he'll he'll push it for and take it forward. And
I just urge anybody who listens to this podcast go
out and either buy the book or or in fact,
I am definitely gonna listen to the audio book because
I'm quite intrigued thereby how this gentleman delivers it. So
I think I think that could be quite fun to
listen to.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Craig, and always an absolute pleasure
or will gentlemen, Oh.
Speaker 1: Thank you, you're very welcome, and you too, thank you
for being a guest again.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, goodbye, thank you, take care.
Speaker 1: You can visit my website at www dot Craig Bryant
dot co dot uk. Paranormal Pendle will return and remember
to keep watching the shadows