Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekenana Show.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about something different today. Thomas,
Speaker 1: how are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for hosting me. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: can talk about we can change up the we can
Speaker 2: change up the subject definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get back to the Cold War on the
Speaker 1: next one. But I've read Yaki. I started reading Spangler
Speaker 1: one of the essays that you recommended, and it just
Speaker 1: speaks to me, really speaks to my heart. And I
Speaker 1: know that Spangler and especially Yaki are a big part
Speaker 1: of your of your thought, and you're where you've taken
Speaker 1: a lot of inspiration from. So I thought we'd do
Speaker 1: a little episode. And I think they go together because
Speaker 1: Yaqui uses so many, so many spanglerisms and seems to
Speaker 1: have really dug deep into his work and integrated into
Speaker 1: his work. So I guess let's start with the original.
Speaker 1: What is it about Spangler that attracted you first?
Speaker 2: Well, frankly, especially as the Cold War resolved, Spangler was
Speaker 2: Spangler was one of these was one of the only
Speaker 2: what would you consider esoteric kind of thinkers that they
Speaker 2: came to before the Internet. There's a two volume it
Speaker 2: was it was a bridge, but it was the it
Speaker 2: was the two valume abridged version of Decline of the West.
Speaker 2: And I think Harvard University Press had put out in
Speaker 2: the fifties with at the Double Check. It was part
Speaker 2: of this whole series on political theory, like Hans and
Speaker 2: Morgan Thou, who's actually worth reading, and yes he's part
Speaker 2: of that. He was part of that Morgan Thou family.
Speaker 2: And he was for a time, uh New York attorney
Speaker 2: state Attorney general and then and then uh he was
Speaker 2: some kind of state department hancho. But at any event,
Speaker 2: I think it was Harvard University Press. There's this whole
Speaker 2: series on on like footable theory, okay, and they had
Speaker 2: those at like my local like Cook County Branch Library,
Speaker 2: like around like north of glen View and come across
Speaker 2: Spangler and stuff like Instoration Magazine and the like National
Speaker 2: Alliance Lit and stuff like that and something. It was
Speaker 2: over my head because I wasn't I mean, this was
Speaker 2: like a teenager and I hadn't really dived into Hagel
Speaker 2: yet and like Aristotlin things. But what reallyion on me
Speaker 2: was again, you know, this was like literally as the
Speaker 2: Cold War was ending and there was discourse was really
Speaker 2: weird then because it was still semi serious and you
Speaker 2: had serious guys who were kind of weighing in and
Speaker 2: what the implications were, you know, of of Soviet collapse
Speaker 2: and what kind of globalism would look like, and you
Speaker 2: know what the implications were just kind of like across
Speaker 2: the board, you know, because everybody realized this, this is this, this,
Speaker 2: this is a profound event. This is like an Apockel event.
Speaker 2: To see what week it's okay? And I was kind
Speaker 2: of seeking up sources to just try and put this
Speaker 2: in better perspective, and there was not much, I mean,
Speaker 2: there was this. I mean admittedly, like I just said,
Speaker 2: you know that the tenor at discourse was it was
Speaker 2: elevated committed today, but there was not a lot of
Speaker 2: other than the kind of like into history kind of
Speaker 2: midway stuff there. You know, there wasn't a lot to
Speaker 2: put this in comic, especially for a young person. When
Speaker 2: I started reading Spangler, what such that I could understand it.
Speaker 2: And again it took me probably about like a decade
Speaker 2: to really get like a complete understanding of Spangler. But
Speaker 2: what jumps out of me is the symbolic psychological quality
Speaker 2: to cultural forms and what he called prime symbols of
Speaker 2: those forms. And I've always been somebody who puts a
Speaker 2: strong emphasis on symbolic psychology. Okay, and if you believe
Speaker 2: in true racial differences, I don't just mean you know,
Speaker 2: like at the biological level, I'm not talking about you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about you know, the relative bone density
Speaker 2: of insular breeding populations. I'm not talking about you know,
Speaker 2: people's ratio of fast which the slopes, which muscle fibers,
Speaker 2: and I'm not talking about their IQ like. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about deep meticultural phenomenon that for that that somehow, some
Speaker 2: way insinuates itself into people's minds and conceptual horizons across generations. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's not it's not clear exactly how that happens. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's it's a combination of biology, it's a combination of
Speaker 2: cultural learning. I mean, it's combination of biology with culture
Speaker 2: and cultural learning as well as other other I think
Speaker 2: epigen when I think of epigenetic variables that are well understood.
Speaker 2: But Spango really put this in perspective, okay, that there
Speaker 2: are these prime symbols there. These things are quite literally
Speaker 2: you know, characterize you know, kind of the the core uh,
Speaker 2: the core essence of cultural forms and and and the
Speaker 2: and these and these prime symbols resonate pretty much through
Speaker 2: through everything that culture does, you know, especially in power
Speaker 2: political terms, because that's kind of the zenus of cultural
Speaker 2: activity in all kinds of ways. And it's the most
Speaker 2: critical because there's existential considerations they're relating to racial survival,
Speaker 2: but even everything from like the food kind of foods
Speaker 2: they cook, you know, the kind of that they favor,
Speaker 2: and like, you know, the clothing they wear, and and
Speaker 2: the kind of you know, artwork they create. You know,
Speaker 2: this this is basically how people understand themselves, but not
Speaker 2: just how they understand themselves, how they understand themselves in
Speaker 2: the world relative to other peoples, but also kind of
Speaker 2: like what they view their sort of existential narrative as
Speaker 2: as like as a as a self aware culture, I
Speaker 2: mean that itself is kind of not kind of that
Speaker 2: that itself is very much you know, like a modernist,
Speaker 2: uh arguably postmodern sensibility. You know, people actually being like
Speaker 2: aware of things like cultural horizons, you know, cultural conceptual
Speaker 2: horizons and prime symbols they're in. You know, how these
Speaker 2: things are impactful in terms of in terms of how
Speaker 2: you know, people create a sustain you know, all all
Speaker 2: the phenomena that we consider severally to be like cultural activity.
Speaker 2: But the fact that you know, like like like awareness
Speaker 2: of that and awareness of it is like a discrete
Speaker 2: phenomenon that doesn't somehow like put people like outside of it. Okay,
Speaker 2: so and and Spangler accounters for that too. But that's
Speaker 2: the reason why. I mean initially that's like what really
Speaker 2: kind of like got me into you know, deep diving
Speaker 2: into into Spanglerian thought. But also you know, Spangler was
Speaker 2: a one of the things I really put him on
Speaker 2: the map. He had a renaissance in the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 2: is people were kind of looking outside of uh you know,
Speaker 2: the uh the kind of the kind of international relations
Speaker 2: quantitative model for for understanding you know, cultural behavior. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a lot and like I mean, that's definitely I'm
Speaker 2: saying like youngin theory like came back into vogue too.
Speaker 2: I'm not comparing the two. I think there's some value
Speaker 2: to be found in Young, but I think Spangler is
Speaker 2: quite a bit more of a rigorous thinker. But my
Speaker 2: point is this kind of stuff came back into vogue
Speaker 2: like decades later but you know Spangler, he really was
Speaker 2: like an inner war theorist, okay, and that's one of
Speaker 2: the reasons why you know, Hitler wanted an audience with him,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of anybody who's anybody in Germany, you know,
Speaker 2: people you know, like like people on the far left,
Speaker 2: you know, like reactionary monarchist types. You know, Hitler himself.
Speaker 2: You know, Spangler was a man about town because he
Speaker 2: was up on something people view as profound. But beyond that,
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from you know, kind of the merit
Speaker 2: on his own terms of his of his sort of
Speaker 2: conceptual vision or his kind of theoretical model. You know,
Speaker 2: he was very much observing these things, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of like in their epoch, you know, and he was
Speaker 2: he was very much you know, if you want to
Speaker 2: talk about punctuated decline in crisis and you know what
Speaker 2: and kind of like you know, a culture's self conscious
Speaker 2: efforts to survive late bare not just the miss modernity,
Speaker 2: but a miss you know, like an ex potential crisis
Speaker 2: relating to you know, a power political event of truly
Speaker 2: kind of like world sheeking proportions. I mean, that was
Speaker 2: the Great War, and that was a situation of the
Speaker 2: German Empire and to a lesser degree, you know, the
Speaker 2: Austro Hungarian their Austro Hungarian allies. But you know that
Speaker 2: and and and that, and there was not a lot
Speaker 2: of real scholarship about that that could be viewed as
Speaker 2: kind of the the air apparent that people like fit
Speaker 2: the in my opinion, But beyond that, I mean, beyond
Speaker 2: spending with cultural resonance, like in his epoch, he was
Speaker 2: trying to answer the question like what was happening in Germany?
Speaker 2: Like what you know, what there was there was some
Speaker 2: kind of collision going on between you know, the way
Speaker 2: people understood themselves, you know, racially and Parkley and you know,
Speaker 2: their ability to live in the world. And uh, you
Speaker 2: know this was both this this was both obviously like
Speaker 2: intrinsically bound up with the Great War and that's why
Speaker 2: the Great War happened, but also just like internally, it's
Speaker 2: not some it's not an accident that you know, the
Speaker 2: Bolshek Revolution you know, happened, you know, just on on
Speaker 2: the immediate heels of World War One, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: just because like well this was you know, a crisis
Speaker 2: modality kind of attempted remedy. You know, as the Russian
Speaker 2: state kind of collapsed on itself, like due to the
Speaker 2: fact they were losing the war. I mean, yeah, that
Speaker 2: was like an immediate catalyst, but that that was not
Speaker 2: why it was. That was not why it was approximately
Speaker 2: immerging in absolute terms, Okay, it was these things came,
Speaker 2: these things emerged from the same like nucleus of causal
Speaker 2: variables or operative variables, and you know, the inability of
Speaker 2: culture is to kind of like not just live historically,
Speaker 2: but survive as discreet you know, like kind of modalities
Speaker 2: of human life an organization. That really is kind of
Speaker 2: like the crisis of modernity for European men, like non
Speaker 2: whites and non Europeans, that impacts them too in a
Speaker 2: huge way. The Japanese impacted just as much as Europeans were.
Speaker 2: But what we think of now is the Global South,
Speaker 2: Like they weren't really but like their kind of apocalyptic
Speaker 2: event was you know, the fact that European culture kind
Speaker 2: of collided with their culture like while the Europeans were
Speaker 2: enduring this process as well, and that really really cost havoc.
Speaker 2: That's a little bit more complicated, but the fact is
Speaker 2: that you know, now, if you're gonna say, like well
Speaker 2: Spangler did, this wasn't anything new, you know. Uh, Hegel
Speaker 2: dealt with this. Uh, Nietzsche dealt with this and everybody
Speaker 2: like on the nose kind of way. And yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: But Nietzsche was real likely talking about something different like
Speaker 2: Nietsch wasn't writing about like power, political behavior and activity
Speaker 2: and like very concrete terms. I mean, Spangler appears like abstract,
Speaker 2: you know, to somebody who's like inundated with either analytic
Speaker 2: philosophy or somebody who's kind of like you know, or
Speaker 2: somebody who's kind of like uh habituated, like you know,
Speaker 2: the kind of Anglo like rationalist tradition. But I mean
Speaker 2: Spangler was very much it's like okay, like you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like abstract and like airy and continental oriented
Speaker 2: as he was in philosophical terms, he was he was
Speaker 2: dealing very much with like emerging again like existential crises
Speaker 2: that like Europeans we were dealing with in the epoch. Okay,
Speaker 2: And that's not something uh that that that that's not
Speaker 2: something that philosophers generally did. Okay, I don't I think
Speaker 2: a Spangler it's kind of a pure like it's kind
Speaker 2: of a pure like playable theorist who's who's uh whose
Speaker 2: whose kind of life's work was to identify, you know,
Speaker 2: the historical process and this relationship the culture and race. Okay,
Speaker 2: real lard, I I I think the from philosopher is
Speaker 2: kind of a dumb term in the modern age, but
Speaker 2: I I whatever, I mean, even if we accepted as
Speaker 2: totally valid, I think a Spangler is kind of in
Speaker 2: the terms that I just described. But bring it back
Speaker 2: a little bit. You know, so pre Internet, you know,
Speaker 2: is like a fifteen sixteen year old kid, you know,
Speaker 2: you're you're you you really really the tools you had
Speaker 2: to kind of put things in perspective conceptually, you know,
Speaker 2: it was what you could find it like you know,
Speaker 2: the public library or like what you could find you know,
Speaker 2: by like Poach, like cruising university libraries to grab what
Speaker 2: they had. So I realized, like reading Spangler, like I was,
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, like this is putting things in the
Speaker 2: spective in a way that makes sense, you know. In
Speaker 2: this this especially, he's understanding kind of like the tragedy
Speaker 2: of of the you know, the kind of the German
Speaker 2: situation in the twentieth century. And from there, I'd run
Speaker 2: across the name Francis Parker. Yaki a whole lot owing
Speaker 2: in part too. I was always reading Willis Carter's stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, American Free Press, which I still like periodically
Speaker 2: pick up today. But Cardo is kind of a he
Speaker 2: was kind of peculiar because, uh, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: he was kind of just like a conventional like America firster,
Speaker 2: like right wing type guy, like anti communists. But he's
Speaker 2: the guy I really put Yaki on the map for,
Speaker 2: you know, for like American audiences of just like regular people.
Speaker 2: I mean, Yaki was doing some very strange things of
Speaker 2: his life. I don't even in cunative terms. I mean
Speaker 2: he was probably uh he was probably a Warsaw pack
Speaker 2: intelligence agent. He was like kind of the cosumon van ERTs,
Speaker 2: like JACQUI was trying to convince the man the street
Speaker 2: of the merit of his ideas. You know, he was discripped.
Speaker 2: I mean he I think the first front Runavan period
Speaker 2: was like five hundred copies. And then I mean that
Speaker 2: wasn't just because like he wasn't flush with money. He
Speaker 2: had no intention of like distributing this, you know, to
Speaker 2: millions of people. But and then even Cardo, even though
Speaker 2: Carlo's personal kind of ideological uh bearing didn't have anything
Speaker 2: to do with Yaki. He was one of the last
Speaker 2: people to see Yaki alive because when Yaki was arrested,
Speaker 2: Carter went to visit him because he knew who he was.
Speaker 2: It's not evenly clear like how that is. But Cardo
Speaker 2: was a rich guy, and he was pretty connected and
Speaker 2: he he seemed to just like know things until the
Speaker 2: end of his life, like he I mean that that's
Speaker 2: a whole another episode that we could cover, like kind
Speaker 2: of a mystery of willis Cardo. But if he read
Speaker 2: Cardo Publication's nearly nineties, whether it was a noon tight
Speaker 2: press books or whether it was you know, American free press,
Speaker 2: like fantasy, Yaki was always hot, popping up, you know,
Speaker 2: And so I'm like, what is this all about? And
Speaker 2: in instoration they made point that like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: Imperium is uh is the sequel to you know, Spanglers,
Speaker 2: Decline of the West and the Our Decision and you
Speaker 2: know man in Technics and all these and all these
Speaker 2: things are gonna severally caustic like Spanglers, you know, like
Speaker 2: diagnosis of of you know, the the twentieth century, the
Speaker 2: inner Warriors, if you will. So I sought it out.
Speaker 2: I found Imperium had used the bookstore. They specially ordered
Speaker 2: it for me because that's what we had to do
Speaker 2: in those days. And I started like diving into it.
Speaker 2: And the case of Yaqui, Yaqui's polemics, some people think
Speaker 2: it's overwrought. To understand it. Yaqui was, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: he was he was this upper class Uh he he was.
Speaker 2: He basically like this upper class that kind of like
Speaker 2: Norrath store dude. You know, he's using born in Chicago
Speaker 2: all the way. He lived a lot of his life
Speaker 2: in Michigan, you know, educated and Catholic schools, which at
Speaker 2: that time are kind of elite, like at least where
Speaker 2: he went. You know, people then like wrote in a
Speaker 2: kind of like floor language. It wasn't a kind of
Speaker 2: like obnoxious, like moronic soaring language like like people attempt today.
Speaker 2: But you know that a couple of the fact that
Speaker 2: Yaqui was a trial lawyer. You know that that's kind
Speaker 2: of the way to understand his style, which I understand
Speaker 2: like put some people off, but I found it highly
Speaker 2: resonant because he was one of the few. I mean,
Speaker 2: yaquently thought more like a European than he did, you know,
Speaker 2: an American, and a lot of that owes to his
Speaker 2: cultural Catholicism. I'm not saying that punitively, quite the contrary,
Speaker 2: but so, I mean he he gets sexualized things a
Speaker 2: bit differently in somebody like I would in terms of
Speaker 2: you know what he initially found himself attracted to or
Speaker 2: instinctively rather than initially. But you know, Yaqui put he
Speaker 2: kind of put the European experience in like an American context.
Speaker 2: He you know, and tied this into a Hitler's significance.
Speaker 2: You know, the people in Anglophone societies, you know who
Speaker 2: who found themselves you know, sympathetic to the Axis cause
Speaker 2: in very absolute term, which at that time you know,
Speaker 2: it was like very much like a hot issue when
Speaker 2: there was more people who felt that way than is
Speaker 2: often acknowledged. I mean the uh, you know, the America
Speaker 2: First Committee was not something that I mean they had
Speaker 2: Broadway support. So I mean that was I mean Yaqui's book,
Speaker 2: it was I mean Reading Imperium. Part of it is
Speaker 2: you know, apologia for you know, kind of America First
Speaker 2: in like deep philosophical terms, but also uh, you know
Speaker 2: it it puts in context the then you know, emergent
Speaker 2: Cold War and what in Yaki's view was truly at stake,
Speaker 2: and that was pretty revolutionary. And Yaka made the point
Speaker 2: again and again, and one of his essays, which is
Speaker 2: hard to find now, it was called in the year
Speaker 2: two thousand, Yaqui predicted the Soviet Union would break apart,
Speaker 2: just like Kennon, did you know. He's like, this isn't sustainable.
Speaker 2: You know, the USSR as we know it is not
Speaker 2: going to exist, you know, in fifty years. But he's like,
Speaker 2: Russia will still exist, and at some point point we're
Speaker 2: gonna have to deal with these people number one, you know,
Speaker 2: like us as like you know, occidental white Westerners or
Speaker 2: whatever your preferred kind of the scriptor is. But also
Speaker 2: you know, he said, you know, his point was that
Speaker 2: like Russia even you know, when when it when it's
Speaker 2: when it's when the kind of artificial like modernist guys
Speaker 2: you know, of of communism like sloughs off of it.
Speaker 2: It's it's gonna be truly emergent, as you know, a
Speaker 2: kind of antithesis element you know to the uh the
Speaker 2: basically judaic American you know, uh, you know, uh h ethos,
Speaker 2: and uh, that's very true. I mean Yaki was not
Speaker 2: like a Russophile in fact, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: like he kind of looked down on Slavs. And I
Speaker 2: mean that's clear. I mean the guy who was very
Speaker 2: much like a national socialist. So like everybody, people people
Speaker 2: have to be stupid on purpose about Yaqui and for
Speaker 2: and either say that like to sympathetic to cool Bolshevikism,
Speaker 2: which is fucking retarded, or that he was like some
Speaker 2: kind of like Russophile who just like loved was like
Speaker 2: sitting around like I don't know, I get like reading
Speaker 2: the Brothers Karmezov or something like. That's not at all
Speaker 2: what he's saying. You know. What he was saying is that,
Speaker 2: you know, a truly unipolar world where you've got you know,
Speaker 2: basically kind of uh, you know, you've truly got this.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got a single locui of of a
Speaker 2: global power you know, in America, and it's and it's
Speaker 2: kind of client regimes all of which are basically, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of reduced to appendages of this this it's literally
Speaker 2: like you know, Jewish and kind of deteriorated, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like post cultural anglophone mode of of of
Speaker 2: a I'm not just you know, I'm not as like,
Speaker 2: not as a cultural organization, but of like ethical disposition,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's that's basically the worst possible outcome
Speaker 2: you can imagine for culture, Okay, and uh, really the
Speaker 2: only way to mitigate that is do uh it's for you.
Speaker 2: I mean, Europe's gonna stand with Russia for pragmatic reasons,
Speaker 2: but also again, like it doesn't matter if you like
Speaker 2: Russia or hate Russia, this is totally irrelevant. I mean
Speaker 2: that Russia is the natural counterweight to that tendency in
Speaker 2: all kinds of ways, because Russia is basically anti American
Speaker 2: and Russia is basically like rapidly anti Jewish. Okay, it's
Speaker 2: Russia anti European. Yeah, they are. And don't understand the
Speaker 2: Bolshek Revolution is kind of like, you know, the the
Speaker 2: kind of the kind of primitive indigenous like Peasants Slavic element,
Speaker 2: you know, finding common cause and alliance with uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the cosmopolitan Jewish mercantile element to literally exterminate you know,
Speaker 2: the European overtask that you know, had reigned and Russia
Speaker 2: since the days of the Varangian Russ Okay, but that
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Again, it's not there's not a risk of
Speaker 2: Russia becoming this. There is not. It has not been
Speaker 2: a risk of Russia becoming this you know, truly global
Speaker 2: power since nineteen eighty nine. It's this idea that like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Russia is just as bad as you know,
Speaker 2: what we're dealing with. Now, that's not true at all.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense, and not just because in
Speaker 2: terms of like power, projection, capability and potentiality, but you
Speaker 2: know the reason why it sounds like a trivial thing,
Speaker 2: but the one of the short poppings of warsaw pack
Speaker 2: and man control. In terms of integrated forces, there was
Speaker 2: a short like like like Russian officers wouldn't bother to
Speaker 2: learn German a lot of the time, you know, there
Speaker 2: was like literally like a language barrier between like them
Speaker 2: and like you know, like you know, like national Volks,
Speaker 2: aren't you forcing under their command? You know, things like
Speaker 2: there's just there was like a distance there, you know,
Speaker 2: the like if you want to understand how why the
Speaker 2: American and kind of cultural genocide social engineering of Germany
Speaker 2: was possible, it's because like an Anglophone society, you know,
Speaker 2: a basically cosmopolitan European society like America still was, like
Speaker 2: America was definitely in nineteen forty nine and still somebody
Speaker 2: is today that was anglophoning character that's able to insinuate
Speaker 2: itself into into German culture almost like at the cellular level.
Speaker 2: I mean people say the thing of being silly, but
Speaker 2: I think it almost like the thing, you know, like
Speaker 2: the Little Horror movie, like that was just not possible
Speaker 2: for Russians, you know, like the Soviet Union, even if
Speaker 2: they said about even if you know, even if that
Speaker 2: had been kind of like a dedicated effort of there
Speaker 2: is like look we're gonna we're gonna truly kind of
Speaker 2: like rucify you know, the DDR, it wouldn't have worked,
Speaker 2: you know, like it just wouldn't have you know you're
Speaker 2: talking about truly. Yeah, in like border areas especially, you know,
Speaker 2: like you would yeah, there would have been people who
Speaker 2: are basically like you know, like like Slavonic Germans, but
Speaker 2: generally like he wouldn't you you wouldn't have had like
Speaker 2: every like you know, every like East German school kid
Speaker 2: like just like casually learning Russian by osmosis and like
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have had like, you know, German ladies deciding
Speaker 2: y' all wanted to look like the Russian women in
Speaker 2: the magazines, like you wouldn't. I mean, like that just
Speaker 2: would not happen, okay, And that stuff you better believe
Speaker 2: that happened in the boon this republic, Okay. And it
Speaker 2: wasn't just because like, oh, America's got good propaganda and
Speaker 2: Coca cola, you know, I mean that's these are real things, okay.
Speaker 2: So all of that. Taking it back to kind of
Speaker 2: get an original query, I mean that that that kind
Speaker 2: of is what being to like put the world in perspective
Speaker 2: to me, And I always knew there was something wrong
Speaker 2: post Reagan. I think Bush forty one was a pretty
Speaker 2: and within the bount of rationality of you know, kind
Speaker 2: of uh of of what American government is and has
Speaker 2: been in nineteen thirty three. I think Bush forty one
Speaker 2: is basically a serious guy and a good commander in chief,
Speaker 2: even if I I've got nothing nice to say about
Speaker 2: him otherwise. But even by nineteen ninety one ninety two,
Speaker 2: there was this kind of like bizarre triumphulist language ceeping
Speaker 2: into American discourse that just made me WinCE and you know, uh,
Speaker 2: I could tell that the cultures being coarsened. I don't
Speaker 2: I don't just mean like, you know, things becoming kind
Speaker 2: of like more like lord and pornographic, but it's part
Speaker 2: of it. But I mean like things would be were
Speaker 2: becoming like less and less serious and just kind of
Speaker 2: like just more and more like idiotic, you know, and
Speaker 2: it uh, you know, I realized kind of like yawning
Speaker 2: chasm here where there should be like a culture, you know,
Speaker 2: when it and they had a couple of the fact
Speaker 2: that I realized it's I'm everybody's sick of hearing this
Speaker 2: and it you know, often I just saw some cantankerous
Speaker 2: old guy telling people to confort blessings. But the early
Speaker 2: nineties in America really were like really fucked up. I
Speaker 2: mean you remember that, and you know, like racilations were
Speaker 2: in the toilet, you know, like I literally have to
Speaker 2: like think about like where I couldn't couldn't go, like
Speaker 2: I'm talking about it, drones like Chicago hoods, like you'd
Speaker 2: like fucking get killed and like you know, from being
Speaker 2: white and like that's not that way.
Speaker 1: Remember the freaking Special Forces was literally in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, two thousand Korean businesses were burnt to the ground.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's more in the streets and the marines.
Speaker 2: The fat of my Iraq, we're fucking shooting it out
Speaker 2: with like the grave street crips and stuff. But you know,
Speaker 2: like it's not like bad people think things are today
Speaker 2: and then like a marriage in a bad place. They
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna like if I
Speaker 2: like disembarking Garbield park of the bus, like I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna get my ass like fucking stopped into this cement
Speaker 2: like for being white. That's not gonna happen, Okay. In
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, that absolutely would happen. Okay. So it's
Speaker 2: like all these things on like my teenage mind, like
Speaker 2: YAQUI really put this in perspective, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: there's not I'm the first. I'm always telling people, especially youngsters,
Speaker 2: like like you can't you can't like find answers to
Speaker 2: the world, especially like politics, like in books, and you can't.
Speaker 2: It's like the wrong there's not like a crystals version
Speaker 2: into like you know, political occurrences or something. But in
Speaker 2: fear terms, particularly in a place like America where there's
Speaker 2: where there's there's like bizarre signaling and in terms of
Speaker 2: the propaganda narrative that doesn't really make sense and is
Speaker 2: that distracted from any kind of concrete experience. It is
Speaker 2: essential to have, you know, kind of like the pole
Speaker 2: stars as it were, like the parameters rather like provided
Speaker 2: by you know, like theoretical scholarship. And Yaki, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: realized Yaqui is a polemisist. I realize he's like a
Speaker 2: big national socialist. He's not, and he didn't like for
Speaker 2: it to be like, oh, I'm this objective kind of
Speaker 2: like diagnostition of historical processes. But Yaki, you really put
Speaker 2: everything in perspective of me, like, Okay, this is why
Speaker 2: the this, this, this is why the this is why
Speaker 2: the problem in the ground with the races is the
Speaker 2: way it's in America. You know, this is why the
Speaker 2: culture seems so coarse and just like moronic. This is
Speaker 2: like what it's trying to accomplish. You know, this is
Speaker 2: why like the leadership cast seems so like flavoringly like
Speaker 2: either just corrupt or disengaged. Because this is why at
Speaker 2: that time in Europe two like you know, tu Jma's
Speaker 2: Croatia like helmet Cole in a kind of one of
Speaker 2: the most singularly patriotic acts post war by German Chancellor
Speaker 2: immed the recognizing the pendent state of Croatia. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: and then and and then and and Bush and Baker
Speaker 2: like hit the roof when he did that. But that
Speaker 2: that's what prevented like, uh, you know, some kind of
Speaker 2: a you know, some some some kind of contrivance of
Speaker 2: you know, democratic Yugoslavia from enduring and uh you know
Speaker 2: the Croati the twos one Croatio was a national social
Speaker 2: state literally, okay, something that that came into perspective too,
Speaker 2: and like why you know, like that where like that
Speaker 2: was that was literally unfinished business, you know, from nineteen
Speaker 2: forty five. I mean that's kind of how I me.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much like how it came to Yackey and
Speaker 2: then I from there. Uh. I've uh, I've kind of
Speaker 2: moved beyond like based just about everything I've read I
Speaker 2: was reading when I was a teenager, except for stuff
Speaker 2: like obviously like Aristotle and and and and like. But
Speaker 2: you know, I continue to defend Yaki you particularly, and
Speaker 2: I found I don't believe these like internet guys, especially
Speaker 2: in university types. I mean a lot of these guys,
Speaker 2: they they never read what I write. I think they
Speaker 2: like see the way I look or something, and they
Speaker 2: they act like a haughty and like act like I'm
Speaker 2: stupid or something. Then they realize like I'm not stupid,
Speaker 2: so they just kind of like attack like what I
Speaker 2: cite as like authoritative and the Yaki is ridiculous. That's
Speaker 2: just like you know, you might as well read like
Speaker 2: skinhead magazines. It's like, I don't believe you've read Francis Yaki.
Speaker 2: That's what your take. Yeah, I mean it's not it's
Speaker 2: it's intellectually highly rigorous, Like I said, you can say
Speaker 2: his language is like overwrought in the way that frankly,
Speaker 2: you know people who's kind of introduction to to uh
Speaker 2: you know, like adult intellectual life of apprentis a lot
Speaker 2: and that's unfortunate. But uh, like you can't say it's
Speaker 2: like not serious and then it's like some stupid like
Speaker 2: racialist like rant or something like it's not you know.
Speaker 2: So I don't I believe a lot of like what's
Speaker 2: levied against Yaki, particularly by these liked of still appointed
Speaker 2: like academic gatekeeper types. I don't believe they've like even
Speaker 2: a right imperium, you know, put imperiums like seven hundred pages.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like it's and it's it's it's pretty
Speaker 2: heavy stuff, you know, like it's not just that you
Speaker 2: can like flip through like a couple hours on a Saturday.
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of like what people say,
Speaker 2: you know, to kind of make fun of people say, yuck,
Speaker 2: you don't think they really read it, but they pretend
Speaker 2: it's like reading like George Lincoln Rockwell or something like,
Speaker 2: it's not it's not at all, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: totally and uh, I mean the point of people too.
Speaker 2: And this is a bit of a tangent, but you
Speaker 2: know the Falcon, the Snowman, which is a fascinating story
Speaker 2: and like a great film, and Chris Boyce, you know,
Speaker 2: the guy, I mean, he was a real guy. I
Speaker 2: mean that that movie really happened, and basically it happened
Speaker 2: the terms presented. But he had a blog in the
Speaker 2: two thousands when he got into prison. He didn't got
Speaker 2: a prison until like two thousand and three or something,
Speaker 2: you know, but he uh, you know, and he didn't
Speaker 2: want to talk a lot about his espionage charges, but
Speaker 2: he what he did say, and we did reiterate, was that,
Speaker 2: you know, he had no affinity for the Soviet Union
Speaker 2: or for communism at all, you know, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I never started identifying as like as a practicing cantalic.
Speaker 2: You know, he's like, but America couldn't be allowed to
Speaker 2: just win the Cold War in absolute terms any more
Speaker 2: than the Soviet Union to be allowed to do that.
Speaker 2: And he was right, you know, boys said that he
Speaker 2: had the energy and and kind of fervor of a
Speaker 2: young man and thinking he could change these things like
Speaker 2: you can't, okay, like nothing any one man, no matter
Speaker 2: what kind of no matter what kind of secrets or
Speaker 2: intelligence he had access to their military knowledge, you know,
Speaker 2: could have like changed the course of of of the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. But his his impulse was correct, Okay, even
Speaker 2: if it was like, even if it was a youthful romanticism,
Speaker 2: and it was ridiculous to think like he could change
Speaker 2: the course sumptionally the way the wars up bag was going.
Speaker 2: He was right that something terrible would happen if America
Speaker 2: simply just like outright won the Cold War. You know,
Speaker 2: there needs to be that kind of uh. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think the American garments in ninety thirty three is
Speaker 2: literally evil. But even if somebody's got a softer, more
Speaker 2: terrible charitable perspective on it than that, you know, aganistic
Speaker 2: pluralism as well like chiefs, like politics, like productive and
Speaker 2: I and you know, is what prevents, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the establishment of these uh of these these kinds of
Speaker 2: deteriorated uh like monocultural uh you know, mechanisms that that
Speaker 2: that basically suppressed culture where's emergent in any in any formness,
Speaker 2: you know, threatening the status quote. I realized there was
Speaker 2: a lot there, but that's the best way you explain it,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to Spangler because in reading
Speaker 1: u Qussian socialism, there was something he said in there
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of Americans and Westerners would
Speaker 1: have a problem with, especially since you know, I think
Speaker 1: he wrote that nineteen twenty. So he said that the
Speaker 1: Englishman judges himself upon his riches and the Prussian judges
Speaker 1: himself upon his rank.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so true to that, Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: Werner Sombard made a lot of the same points. And
Speaker 2: the way to understand, I mean, that's why to be
Speaker 2: a bit more charitable, to the English, you know, the
Speaker 2: the UK and England itself. It's it's an inception. It
Speaker 2: was a divided society. There wasn't some like single ethnos
Speaker 2: that became the English people. I mean, you know all
Speaker 2: of this, but you're an Iran educated guy. But like
Speaker 2: that's gotta be this this idea of like this homogeneous
Speaker 2: kind of England. And it's why I especially bizarre when
Speaker 2: you know the kind of cargo cult multiculturalism in England.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like England's always been like catastrophically multicultural.
Speaker 2: They didn't even get a handle on this, arguably until
Speaker 2: the twentieth century. You know, like the experience of Prussia
Speaker 2: was totally different. I mean Prussia was this garrison state
Speaker 2: you know, with uh like with that, with with barely
Speaker 2: any arable land, no, no naturally defensible you know border features.
Speaker 2: You know it. Uh, it basically makes sense and I
Speaker 2: don't disagree and this, Uh, that's one of the reasons why, like,
Speaker 2: you know, class antagonism has conceptualized. And that's that's one
Speaker 2: of the reason why I was off based. For for
Speaker 2: for Mars to look to Germany is like this is
Speaker 2: where like, you know, Mars's Leninism is going to be
Speaker 2: this where you know this where you know, common is
Speaker 2: gonna be emergent. Then later like Lenin like attempting the
Speaker 2: same the same enterprise or are attending to implement that
Speaker 2: enterprise is is theorized by mars like it Yeah, okay, Germany,
Speaker 2: like obviously it was gonna be first over the line
Speaker 2: in terms of the productive productive forces that could facilitate
Speaker 2: you know, uh, like true socialism in the sense of
Speaker 2: vision by people like Marx. But the class antagonists catalyst
Speaker 2: is not really present in Germany. I mean it's not
Speaker 2: to say like the KPD wasn't very strong, but again,
Speaker 2: like the KPD got defeated and of you know what
Speaker 2: I'm always do like a fair fight by the right
Speaker 2: in Germany. I mean that didn't happen in Russia. Obviously,
Speaker 2: the opposite happened because you know, in spite of the
Speaker 2: lack of the technics and infrastructure, the class antagonism was vicious,
Speaker 2: you know. And in the UK, the reason the British
Speaker 2: were paranoid, absolutely paranoid about Bolshevism, they were for good reasons,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean there there was uh, there was
Speaker 2: there there was this basic class antagonism. I mean at
Speaker 2: the point that it's it's it's like you could argue
Speaker 2: that like in some ways like the what people kind
Speaker 2: of politely and you physically approves, like the big classes
Speaker 2: class system. I mean you're talking about people are basically
Speaker 2: like well private purposes, like different ethnic roofs, man like
Speaker 2: they and genetically I think they'll dare out too in
Speaker 2: some sense. Okay, Like it's not it's that that's quite
Speaker 2: a different thing than you know it plays like Prussia
Speaker 2: where uh like like you really do have like a
Speaker 2: common culture and yeah, I mean there's people, you know,
Speaker 2: there's people like higher rank and lower rank, you know,
Speaker 2: and there's there's obviously you know, people have of vastly
Speaker 2: disparate abilities, but you don't have like one class of
Speaker 2: people concentrated, you know, in like one function like looking
Speaker 2: across these other people who are like literally totally different
Speaker 2: from them, Like they like look different, they talk different,
Speaker 2: they act different, you know, like they their customs are different.
Speaker 2: Like it's just not that's not the case. So I
Speaker 2: think that's basically true. And it's also it you know
Speaker 2: stand Barts and uh, there was a whole point too,
Speaker 2: was that there's something uh, I mean the there there
Speaker 2: there there is something. Uh, you know, cultures are kind
Speaker 2: of like someone to drift in history. I mean the
Speaker 2: way I mean, the way they manage these like emergent challenges.
Speaker 2: I mean obviously that's evolutional, but there's also this this
Speaker 2: idea that, uh, this idea that like if we ignore
Speaker 2: like this kind of impulse or socialism, it will go away.
Speaker 2: And if we like outlawed, or if we you know,
Speaker 2: or if we just you know, or if we make
Speaker 2: it fair to everybody that you know, there's there's not
Speaker 2: a limited amount of wealth in the world. And you know,
Speaker 2: if they if they just developed the gumption and industriousness,
Speaker 2: like they too can become rich. And that's not this
Speaker 2: not the way things work. I'm not even saying like
Speaker 2: ethical terms. I mean it's just like not like like
Speaker 2: man individually or or man severally or collectively, you know,
Speaker 2: at at at the at the cultural level and as
Speaker 2: regards as historical enterprises is not is a very limited
Speaker 2: participant man, you know. And there's something cotton E. Europeans
Speaker 2: always understood that, or rather accepted that in a way
Speaker 2: that the English didn't. It's not my purpose is here
Speaker 2: in just like trash England is you know, is I
Speaker 2: know some git's a hobby for some people, particularly in
Speaker 2: our circles. But this idea that you know, oh, we
Speaker 2: can just author you know, like we just kind of
Speaker 2: we can just kind of like author like a well
Speaker 2: functioning society by you know, resorts you know, kind of
Speaker 2: like sound principles of economics or something like this, or
Speaker 2: by resorts you know, like social science, like that's actually
Speaker 2: a very, that's actually a very, that's actually like a
Speaker 2: very anglophone thing. I think that's part of it. All
Speaker 2: those things, but I don't put them in a lead disagree.
Speaker 2: You know, you have sometimes overstated.
Speaker 1: When you read a lot of the writings from the
Speaker 1: early twenties. I just read Schmidt's political theology on the show.
Speaker 1: You you see that they're struggling with this new world
Speaker 1: that you know, World War One changed so much, and
Speaker 1: now you know, if you have a monarchy left, it's
Speaker 1: a parliamentary monarch. He had some monarchy had name. Only
Speaker 1: when Spangler is looking at Europe and he's seeing those changes,
Speaker 1: how is he how is he interpreting what he sees?
Speaker 2: I mean the uh well, I mean it's again he's
Speaker 2: There's there's a common strain in Spangler and Schumpeter and
Speaker 2: in and in Sombert. The reason why socialism was on
Speaker 2: their mind, you Knoweter was Trumpeter, like Spangler was probably
Speaker 2: the most like anti socialist figure you can imagine. Like
Speaker 2: they didn't say it. They weren't saying socialisms and inevitability
Speaker 2: because oh, this is the merchant history and this is progress.
Speaker 2: They're saying that. You know, once like x level of
Speaker 2: development is accomplished, and when you have verstal suffrage, you know,
Speaker 2: people are going to like vote themselves more. Uh, They're
Speaker 2: they're gonna they're they're gonna say the golden goose by
Speaker 2: voting themselves in in in the tunery. Okay, Like as
Speaker 2: a culture, how do you manage that? You know, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: if you have that what you know the Germans used
Speaker 2: to call the mentioned material to kind of mitigate that
Speaker 2: because you have an industrious people, you know, you do
Speaker 2: whatever you can, uh, you know, kind of martial those
Speaker 2: energies you know towards uh, towards things that facilitate you know,
Speaker 2: competitiveness on the world market, you know, and that you know,
Speaker 2: frankly facilitate you know, the ability to to uh, to
Speaker 2: constitute a fearsome army that can appropriate what you can't
Speaker 2: produce at home. But this is an ongoing problem and
Speaker 2: with the absence of a mitigating you know, the kind
Speaker 2: of the kind of a fatalistic the understanding of the
Speaker 2: kind of like fatalism of of of of God's dominion,
Speaker 2: I mean, is the way I logantic I'm a Bible
Speaker 2: prod or you know, if you're just some kind of
Speaker 2: agnostic who nonetheless accepts you know that, you know, the
Speaker 2: process of history is something that man is not truly
Speaker 2: the power to shape or control. You know, You've got
Speaker 2: you've got to become comfortable with like a certain amount
Speaker 2: of like, you know, surrender to these processes. They're like
Speaker 2: greater than man is. Okay, the the deteriation of government
Speaker 2: into this guy you know from you know kind of
Speaker 2: the kind of you know from kind of like you know,
Speaker 2: the on the nose like theological kind of symbolism a monarchy,
Speaker 2: and they're just kind of like a parliament to take
Speaker 2: a glorified public works administration that that that has a
Speaker 2: very corrupting effect. And uh, that's why Spangler, you know,
Speaker 2: he held out the Prussian state. It's not like it's
Speaker 2: not like span some like military man or some Prussian
Speaker 2: martinette himself. You know, he was he was he was
Speaker 2: like he was kind of like the consummate, like you
Speaker 2: know Burger type.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And he was you know, like a bookish kind of
Speaker 2: like timid guy. Like what he was saying was that,
Speaker 2: you know, really the only state that can survived this process,
Speaker 2: you know, with an with an intact culture that is
Speaker 2: prone to you know, things like you know, sustaining it's
Speaker 2: it's it's human quality with you know, with with appropriately
Speaker 2: hygienic praaspets practices figuratively literally, and that you know, is
Speaker 2: capable of you know, generating the wealth that's going to
Speaker 2: be you know rapidly kind of cycled through and consumed
Speaker 2: you know by the voracious monster that is you know,
Speaker 2: the you know, the the parliament, the europe the modern
Speaker 2: parliamentary parliamentary democracy. You know, a state, a state with
Speaker 2: the Prussian ethos extrapolated you know, to to potentially a
Speaker 2: continent size uh, great space, great sovereign space would would
Speaker 2: be what's required. And I basically agree with that, and
Speaker 2: I mean that's why that is obviously in my opinion,
Speaker 2: like what got Hitler's interest in Spangler's stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: Hitler read looked at maps all the time for the
Speaker 2: time he was a little child, like literally and like
Speaker 2: until he died, until like literally like the week he died,
Speaker 2: he always had his maps and his colored pencils, and
Speaker 2: you know, he he was fixated on geography and you know,
Speaker 2: implications they're in both tactical and strategic as well as
Speaker 2: you know, culturally and informative capacities. But Hitler didn't sit
Speaker 2: around reading like like geopolitics all day. You know. He
Speaker 2: was into stuff like Schopenhauer. He was into like I mean,
Speaker 2: it was his favorite like philosopher, you know, and he
Speaker 2: was into he was into like art theory and stuff
Speaker 2: like i I've never heard of before, you know. And
Speaker 2: he was into like you know, he was into like
Speaker 2: you know, heroepics and German histories. But it's not like
Speaker 2: Spangler was kind of thing he ordinarily would just like
Speaker 2: been like, oh, this is great, you know it God's attention.
Speaker 2: Not just because Spangler again was a guy who had
Speaker 2: a lot of clout in the Inner War years. It's
Speaker 2: because like that what I just described, like that is
Speaker 2: what spoke to Hitler and like basis for that is
Speaker 2: not just the table talk, but it's the December eleventh,
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one speech to the Reichstag, and that's an
Speaker 2: important speech for all kinds of reasons. But Hitler, Hitler's
Speaker 2: talking about the Prussian experience in uh In eighteen thirteen.
Speaker 2: He's anything, but he's not. He's not saying the Prussian kingdom.
Speaker 2: He's saying we. He's saying he's talking about the German
Speaker 2: vogue is synonymous with the Prussian state. Okay, And this
Speaker 2: was in Hitler was a Habsburg Austrian saying this. I
Speaker 2: mean that that to me that it's abou outside the scope.
Speaker 2: But that's what convinces me. That to convinced me of
Speaker 2: what I just said. But that's basically Spangler's notion. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's more, there's a lot more there, like in his
Speaker 2: body of work, but in terms of what he in
Speaker 2: terms of the prescription for how the stage should be
Speaker 2: configured and what it's UH and what it's sort of
Speaker 2: like guiding UH ideas should be. You know, that's that's
Speaker 2: what he's getting in and that's what he's concerned with,
Speaker 2: and that's what everybody was concerned with. And uh, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that's trumpter and some are because like I said,
Speaker 2: I mean they they were quintally concerned the same fundamentally
Speaker 2: considered the same thing is because these are questions of
Speaker 2: of existential imperative significance.
Speaker 1: Let's let's do Yaki now you and you already mentioned this,
Speaker 1: and this is probably the thing that anyone who knows
Speaker 1: who finds out something about Yaqui wants to question or
Speaker 1: once to use to dismiss him. It's his embracing of
Speaker 1: the Soviet of the Soviet Union and his reasoning behind that.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people look at it,
Speaker 1: would look now and look at the world and be like,
Speaker 1: if somebody's honest, they'll be like, well, I think he
Speaker 1: was ahead of his time and his thinking in this.
Speaker 1: But it's still really hard because you know, we've gone
Speaker 1: through this whole, We've had seventy five years of of
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. Was the was our enemy. I mean
Speaker 1: we grew up in that way, We grew up that way.
Speaker 1: The Soviet Union was was our enemy. You know, if
Speaker 1: bombs start dropping, hide into your desk, crying of kind
Speaker 1: of crap. So Bayaki saying that the Soviet Union was
Speaker 1: that he would support he was supporting the Soviet Union
Speaker 1: at that point. You know, can you go it a
Speaker 1: little more into detail his reasoning behind that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, first and foremost and kind of
Speaker 2: the most in the most basic terms and a basic,
Speaker 2: strugg full terms. It's what I said when I referenced
Speaker 2: Chris Boyce with nothing in common with yacky, but I
Speaker 2: but in in in Jewish, in geopolitical terms. That that
Speaker 2: was that that that was, that was the structural issue. Okay,
Speaker 2: an American, an American hedgemond would lead to what you
Speaker 2: see today. You know, it would lead to the social
Speaker 2: engineering of of race out of existence other than the
Speaker 2: Jewish races. As a matter of course, like literally at debate,
Speaker 2: that's not something conspiracy theory that's literally baked into the
Speaker 2: American ideology. Okay, and uh even even really not the case.
Speaker 2: You don't want in in a twenty first century You
Speaker 2: did not want to pack sramana in a twenty first
Speaker 2: century world, Okay, you just don't. That's not You do
Speaker 2: not want great power monopolization of global resources, like singular
Speaker 2: great power monopolization of global resources. That's going to be
Speaker 2: a tyranny no matter what. So just an absolute like
Speaker 2: a political terms, structural terms is that. Secondly, Yaki always
Speaker 2: Yaqui's all big point was that he said that like
Speaker 2: and then again, part of this is kind of like
Speaker 2: a cultural Catholicism, but I'm not saying that cumatively at all.
Speaker 2: Yaki's point was like, look, you've got to look at
Speaker 2: yourself Americas, White Americans need to look at themselves as
Speaker 2: as basically like Europeans who live in a new world, Okay,
Speaker 2: because if you don't, you're gonna make compromises that ultimately
Speaker 2: like write you out of history. Okay, and that's what
Speaker 2: happened in nineteen thirty three New Deal America. And beyond.
Speaker 2: It's singularly anti it's anti Western, it's anti white, it's
Speaker 2: anti European, and like why wouldn't it be it views
Speaker 2: all these things as alien to itself. Okay, it's basically
Speaker 2: Jewish such that it has like a cultural orientation at all,
Speaker 2: Like the people constantly do it who aren't Jewish, like
Speaker 2: they might as well be because they don't care and
Speaker 2: like what they don't view as hostile they simply have
Speaker 2: no interest in preserving. Okay, the only way europe can survive.
Speaker 2: Is Europe hass to join with Russia. Now Yatu would
Speaker 2: have preferred, you know, that to have occurred with you know,
Speaker 2: you know the capture of Moscow in December nineteen forty one,
Speaker 2: because that didn't happen. Well, we have you know, we
Speaker 2: have the world that we have, not the world that
Speaker 2: we want. So the only way that Europe is going
Speaker 2: to throw off the American yoke is by sometime of
Speaker 2: concord with the Soviet Union. And after nineteen fifty three
Speaker 2: he said that wouldn't be particularly in city. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Soviet occupation is a tyranny, but you know, it's like
Speaker 2: elite de ben was that the tyranny of the body.
Speaker 2: You know, whether Stalin intended to do this for sectarian
Speaker 2: and ethnic reasons or whether he just did it for
Speaker 2: practical reasons. Because these people constantly with a threat you know,
Speaker 2: to the to not just his own mandate, but the
Speaker 2: enduring power of the party. Stalin literally perd Jews from
Speaker 2: leadership in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Okay,
Speaker 2: and he did so in a way that was fairly
Speaker 2: above board. That was that was Yougi's point about the
Speaker 2: Prague Trials Okay, every I mean out of the Prague
Speaker 2: Trials were I mean of a of a satellite regime,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a satellite regime that was the subject
Speaker 2: of it. But it was not either because that was
Speaker 2: kind of like a test case. And every one of
Speaker 2: the Doctor's plot defenders with Jewish but one. Okay, And
Speaker 2: it's like that, so we don't even trying to hide
Speaker 2: was underway here, you know, just like we don't care
Speaker 2: like these people are these people are are Fifth Columnists,
Speaker 2: like they're gonna.
Speaker 3: Die, you know.
Speaker 2: So okay, Yeah, like in Germany, Germany in nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: or ninety sixty, you know, uh, in concord with the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. Yeah, the people there were were gonna made
Speaker 2: them the heel of Stalinism on their neck. But you know,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be being genocided out of existence, you know,
Speaker 2: like churches were going to be replaced with the Holocaust museums.
Speaker 2: You know, like black immigrants, we're gonna be flooded into
Speaker 2: the cities, you know, like pornography wasn't gonna be flooded
Speaker 2: made available basically for free. I mean, like this was
Speaker 2: a lot lot less insidious, okay, like being poor and
Speaker 2: having like, uh, to deal with a political police force
Speaker 2: that's not a small thing that's fucked up. Nobody would
Speaker 2: say that's good. That's better than what I just described. Okay,
Speaker 2: And not only is it better at day to day
Speaker 2: terms and in civilizational terms, you can survive that, you
Speaker 2: cannot survive the other Okay, that was Yaki's reasoning. Finally,
Speaker 2: again Yaki was like Kennon, He's like, look, the Soviet
Speaker 2: Union is not going to exist in fifty years. It's
Speaker 2: definitely not gonna exist in one hundred years. From his
Speaker 2: then for the nineteen fifty he's like, you know, when
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union's gone, there's still gonna be a Russia.
Speaker 2: There's still gonna be in Germany. You know, there's still
Speaker 2: gonna be a Europe. You know. It's you know, so
Speaker 2: this idea that you know, this is this idea that
Speaker 2: like you know, what if if if we could pitulate,
Speaker 2: we could picture like the Soviet Union. Now you know
Speaker 2: that the world's gonna become this this you know, is
Speaker 2: gonna become this kind of like uh, this kind of
Speaker 2: like giant gulag hell, you know, is you know, that's
Speaker 2: that's fast style. I take some exception to I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't want to get into my own view on
Speaker 2: this because it's it's it's outside the scope. But you know,
Speaker 2: his point was that, you know, there's nothing less cosmopolitan
Speaker 2: than the truly like kind of like Russian cultural soul. Okay,
Speaker 2: So even if you have like a europe and particlarly
Speaker 2: in Germany like dominated by Russian perpetuity, you know, gradually
Speaker 2: like they're gonna slough off, you know, either the appearance
Speaker 2: of communism and even and even appeal to it as
Speaker 2: some kind of you know ration, like like purported rationale.
Speaker 2: You know, for what for what the regime does? You know,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be left the basis kind of like this
Speaker 2: kind of like nationalists Russian regime that you know might
Speaker 2: be brutish towards the Germans, but it's not gonna it's
Speaker 2: not gonna be it's not gonna be trying to racially
Speaker 2: exterminate them out of history, and it's not gonna be
Speaker 2: able to insinuate itself into the culture. Like no, they
Speaker 2: can Russia not do that. They can't do that. You're like, damn,
Speaker 2: like you were not gonna see like Russian kids all
Speaker 2: just kind of spontaneously speaking Russian because they viewed the
Speaker 2: Russians as the higher culture. You were gonna see like
Speaker 2: you know, German women, like deciding you want to dress
Speaker 2: like you know, like like Russian women, you're not gonna
Speaker 2: find you know, German saying you know what, like you know,
Speaker 2: I were antellectual canon just inferior to that going to
Speaker 2: be in produced by the Russians, Like I'm not trashing Russia,
Speaker 2: but this is this is a fact, okay, like that
Speaker 2: that would not happen. And also again I mean I
Speaker 2: use the example which seems like the kind of narrow,
Speaker 2: narrowly focused example of uh, you know, Warsaw pac command
Speaker 2: of control having certain challenges, you know, because there was
Speaker 2: like language barriers. I mean that that's that part of
Speaker 2: that was just like a Russian thing where I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna learn German, you know, like I I'm the occupier,
Speaker 2: I'm the boss, you know who. I don't care about
Speaker 2: these people. I mean, it really is kind of like
Speaker 2: a crude showing. And then a lot of Russians do.
Speaker 2: I don't even think that's fairly bad. I'm kind of
Speaker 2: the same way in my own like fucking Yankee Pecker
Speaker 2: would start a wigh. Okay, I'm not some fucking not
Speaker 2: so many things, like being cosmopolit is this braint thing,
Speaker 2: okay at all, But whether it's good or bad is incidental.
Speaker 2: Like that's not what the Russians are, Like, that's not
Speaker 2: how they do things. Okay. So that was Yaki's point,
Speaker 2: and you know, at the end of the day, I
Speaker 2: mean he was he was right because it's like even
Speaker 2: if you you can look at the big rebubtal of
Speaker 2: that would be like people, uh, you know, the kinds
Speaker 2: of people who would say, like we'll look at what
Speaker 2: the look at what the Soviets did in the colored world.
Speaker 2: You know, they were radicalizing all these people against the West,
Speaker 2: Like but like what was the West? What was the
Speaker 2: West then? Like the West was uh, they they were
Speaker 2: open borders, they were you know, we've gotta we've got
Speaker 2: to eliminate, you know, this this leg of equity between
Speaker 2: the sexes. We've gotta we we we we've got to
Speaker 2: destroy these pairs communities where people are insisting on retaining
Speaker 2: their own kind of purity of ethnos and cultural practice.
Speaker 2: You know, we gotta, you know, we gotta we we
Speaker 2: gotta create this kind of global monoculture, whereas you know, like, uh,
Speaker 2: we're where we were beyond race, like the Soviets were
Speaker 2: doing all of this. Yeah, okay, I don't think it's
Speaker 2: good that the Soviets were the you know in the
Speaker 2: Cubans were the flowing and forced a you know, it's
Speaker 2: a the Africa to annihilate you know, the Board of Republic.
Speaker 2: But I mean, okay, in the grand scheme, what I
Speaker 2: say is there's out Okay, there was Washington wasn't as
Speaker 2: far far far more radical, far more actually communistic, far
Speaker 2: more and city is far more destructive than Moscow ever
Speaker 2: was Okay, and that was the case in nineteen fifty Okay,
Speaker 2: as it is today. That was Jockey's point.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's finish up with us. So Jacky gets caught,
Speaker 1: he gets drown in jail, and he uh, he ends
Speaker 1: up killing himself.
Speaker 2: Indeed, what why do you think he did? I think
Speaker 2: Yaki never an H. Thompson, who was his good friend,
Speaker 2: and even like decades after the fact, I mean Thompson,
Speaker 2: Thompson realized that he was a witness to history in
Speaker 2: some sense, so I mean he he he. He was
Speaker 2: relatively open with interviewers about his own life and his
Speaker 2: own kind of experiences. I think he always played kind
Speaker 2: of KOI about Yaki, Like Yaki had no visible source
Speaker 2: of income. But you know, according to his friends, he
Speaker 2: was always addressed well and he never had a lot
Speaker 2: of money, but he was never like starving, you know,
Speaker 2: and he uh, it's pretty clear to me that you know,
Speaker 2: he was that he was an East Block intelligence asset.
Speaker 2: I believe that he made contact with Otto Reemer and
Speaker 2: the Socialist Reich's Party when uh he when he when
Speaker 2: he when he was briefly a war crimes prosecutor, and
Speaker 2: he deliberately lost his cases. I do like lesser war criminals.
Speaker 2: But he he went to he was he was held
Speaker 2: out trying to get to Germany, and he did That's
Speaker 2: why he wanted to go away. In my opinion, I
Speaker 2: believe may kind of the guys like Reamer, you know,
Speaker 2: Reamer was uh reamerhead of you that I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, uh, the Socialsch Party was they they favored
Speaker 2: alliance with the Soviet Union. I mean, that was the whole,
Speaker 2: that was their whole. Raizlin Detro was gonna skew the
Speaker 2: the what remained of the German nationalists right towards you know,
Speaker 2: away from NATO. But it uh I believe that through
Speaker 2: Reamer he got introduced, uh probably to the probably the
Speaker 2: elements of of East German intelligence and definitely the kg
Speaker 2: B types. And uh, I think that that was Jacky's
Speaker 2: I think that was Yaki's role. And I think what
Speaker 2: I think part of what Yachi was doing was he
Speaker 2: was trying he was working on neutralized like him and
Speaker 2: like everybody's so deployed as he was. It was based
Speaker 2: on their job like neutralized with the Allies, we're trying
Speaker 2: to accomplish with their like kind of Operation Gladio notions.
Speaker 2: You know, they're they're like the Warsaw pack was basically
Speaker 2: swinging like uh, the European like patriotic right and like
Speaker 2: the fascist right like towards their tamp for the reasons
Speaker 2: I just said, and uh, Washington, uh and people like
Speaker 2: Dallas especially that was they were very upset about that
Speaker 2: because obviously, like this was a key part of kind
Speaker 2: of like their their strategy for if there was a
Speaker 2: general Communist assault on Europe. You know, their stay behind
Speaker 2: element was these guys who like Yaqui was flipping to
Speaker 2: the Soviet side, you know, stuff like that. And he also, yeah,
Speaker 2: but Yaki had like four or five different passports in
Speaker 2: different names. He was arrested, like and this wasn't like
Speaker 2: today where you know, if you know the right people
Speaker 2: you can get that done. Like that could print a
Speaker 2: passport in nineteen fifty you know, like you couldn't do
Speaker 2: that any typewriter. I mean, I I believe that very
Speaker 2: is very clear.
Speaker 1: Do you think from reading Bolton, do you think there's
Speaker 1: a chance he was originally intelligence for the United States.
Speaker 1: He goes a wall in the beginning of World War
Speaker 1: in the beginning of World War two, disappears into South
Speaker 1: America and then comes back, and he doesn't do any
Speaker 1: time or it doesn't seem that he's even reprimanded, or
Speaker 1: if he has reprimanded, it's a slap on the it's
Speaker 1: a slap on the rest, I.
Speaker 2: Mean as possible. Yeah. And uh. He also he wrote
Speaker 2: he wrote a speech or two for for Senator Joe McCarthy, which, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the storty of the speech was like why
Speaker 2: you know we need rearmed Germany and like embrace Germany
Speaker 2: as like allies. It's really interesting, I think, but like
Speaker 2: why why would Joe McCarthy Like know who Yacky was.
Speaker 2: I mean McCarthy was like a big deal then. I
Speaker 2: mean like his it's gonna his fall from grace Roverbia
Speaker 2: Lee was dramatic and profound. But you know, McCarthy was
Speaker 2: one of the left still like burns him in fig
Speaker 2: today is because he was like a big deal. So
Speaker 2: it's like why why this big shats senator at all?
Speaker 2: Just kind of like random like right wing lawyer like
Speaker 2: that doesn't really make a lot of sense, you know,
Speaker 2: So like, uh yeah, so I mean there's a very
Speaker 2: good chance. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: All right, let's leave it there and uh, we'll come
Speaker 1: back to the Cold War on the next episode. And
Speaker 1: I think this had Cold War implications so that that's good.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And we can come back to this on
Speaker 1: another date. Drop some plugs and we'll end this.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Man, thanks for the time being. I'm
Speaker 2: still on Twitter. I think that's probably gonna come to
Speaker 2: an end soon, So I behoove people follow me on substack.
Speaker 2: You know my substick is uh real Thomas seven seven
Speaker 2: seven dot substack dot com. You know, there's like a
Speaker 2: whole like there's a there's a whole like chat feature there.
Speaker 2: You know, people are pretty active on I'm on t gram.
Speaker 2: You know, I still end the time being on Twitter.
Speaker 2: For the time being on Twitter at real Underscore number
Speaker 2: seven h one mes seven seven seven. I'm working on
Speaker 2: the channel still in earnest. I'm gonna start shooting dedicated
Speaker 2: content for it by the first week in April, so
Speaker 2: I mean be looking for that. It's Thomas PD on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Once I started uploading like real original content, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: start saturating like Odyssey and on this stuff. But right
Speaker 2: now I'm on YouTube so people can find us. I
Speaker 2: realize that it's not long for as the Earth one
Speaker 2: once they figure out what I'm doing. But I will
Speaker 2: hip everybody to that, like on my substack, because I
Speaker 2: have been doing this stuff and that's all I got
Speaker 2: for know.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much, thanks for this, No, thank
Speaker 1: you man. Take care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone back to the pe Comana Show. Do it
Speaker 1: a little uh timely one here. I'm gonna be releasing
Speaker 1: this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody some people
Speaker 1: would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode,
Speaker 1: but now this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the
Speaker 1: coup in Chile, and I want to have Thomis on
Speaker 1: to give his opinion of what it was and how
Speaker 1: it went down and how it benefited the right. That
Speaker 1: sound good, I.
Speaker 2: Mean yeah, I meanly, I mean, I mainly want to
Speaker 2: dismantle misconceptions as well as out and out confabulations about
Speaker 2: the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political, and historical,
Speaker 2: because all these things play into the equation. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm not just being a historical researcher who's insane when
Speaker 2: he was on fetishes for anthropological data. In this discussion,
Speaker 2: it really is significant in a and the cause of Chile,
Speaker 2: in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular. We're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about what happened there and why it became such
Speaker 2: a critical Cold War battle theater. And that's the way
Speaker 2: to understand this. That's the way to understand this. That's
Speaker 2: the way to understand the totality of what became Operation Condor.
Speaker 2: That's the way to understand the situation in Argentina, which
Speaker 2: was a lot more murky and conspiratorial than that of Chile.
Speaker 2: I mean that weren't the discussion all onto itself, but
Speaker 2: particularly the the you know, what developed in Nicaragua and
Speaker 2: El Salvador and uh Granada was key as well in
Speaker 2: the final phase of the Cold War, and people they
Speaker 2: don't fully understand at the time, people generally did. It's
Speaker 2: interesting how they kind of tortured rationale. People would resort
Speaker 2: to these Peter Arnett types and even Oliver Stone who
Speaker 2: made a pretty negative partisan movie about you know, Central America.
Speaker 2: I think it was actually called Salvador. I don't know
Speaker 2: how these people could rationalize. I mean, I know how
Speaker 2: they did superficially, I mean I was alive during the time,
Speaker 2: but how they could sort of redact in their own
Speaker 2: mind the fact that Central and South America, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe we refer to as Latin America in total
Speaker 2: was an active battle space in the final phase of
Speaker 2: the Cold War, and it was a truly critical battle
Speaker 2: space because not just in terms of American credibility visa
Speaker 2: visa on Roe doctrine and things, but that would have
Speaker 2: rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw packed was always disadvantaged
Speaker 2: by owing to, you know, facts of geography and the
Speaker 2: fact that in that epoch the way four structures were,
Speaker 2: you know, owing to the technology the day it conferred
Speaker 2: a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it could strike
Speaker 2: you know, basically from you know, within critical range decapitation range.
Speaker 2: Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms a Soviet territory.
Speaker 2: But the and finally, I'll bring it back to the
Speaker 2: discussion at hand in more precise terms, and the daytadd era,
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pack and adjacent states,
Speaker 2: they were winning the Cold War. It in military terms.
Speaker 2: It didn't matter that wars Up Pack was a basket
Speaker 2: case in terms of its internal situation. It didn't matter
Speaker 2: that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know, a crisis
Speaker 2: from the Kremline itself a leadership as you know, this
Speaker 2: kind of aged gerontocracy like literally died off. You know. Uh,
Speaker 2: America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, uh, the
Speaker 2: significance of that, but decoupling Beijing for Warsaw Packed. But
Speaker 2: that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously,
Speaker 2: and that led to in turn, you know, the America
Speaker 2: ended up backing the camer Rouge against the People's Army
Speaker 2: of Vietnam. You know, because the Commune Rouge were China's
Speaker 2: proxy this problem. So this three way proxy war developed,
Speaker 2: you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were
Speaker 2: victorious against on Noulls forces, you know, between the Khmer
Speaker 2: Rouge and the People's Army of Vietnam, you know, the
Speaker 2: United the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the
Speaker 2: United States and the people at China were nominally backing
Speaker 2: the bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental
Speaker 2: subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their friendship
Speaker 2: packed as a hedge against China. America responded, you know,
Speaker 2: by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and uh and
Speaker 2: in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know,
Speaker 2: and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the
Speaker 2: kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union
Speaker 2: at the time, you know that that's what caused them
Speaker 2: to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about,
Speaker 2: like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna
Speaker 2: the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States
Speaker 2: dates and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought
Speaker 2: that Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially only the
Speaker 2: loss of Iran, but also I mean that would you
Speaker 2: know Afghanistan with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan and Kazakhstan
Speaker 2: was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean
Speaker 2: that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear commanding control. So
Speaker 2: I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent
Speaker 2: would ended it. I mean it was the invasion of
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the
Speaker 2: communists run the move on every continent and goal is
Speaker 2: another one, okay, and there was neither the political will
Speaker 2: nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force
Speaker 2: to enforce the Truman doctrine. Then come to the direct
Speaker 2: aid of these you know, friendly states under siege by
Speaker 2: communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You know
Speaker 2: that the draft had ended and the revolution of military
Speaker 2: affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented yet
Speaker 2: in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems and
Speaker 2: this command control technology like did exist, it just hadn't
Speaker 2: been integrated into you know, fource structures and being in
Speaker 2: a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at a
Speaker 2: map in nineteen seventy three, again in military terms, the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is an
Speaker 2: oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there was
Speaker 2: high hopes for it. You know, people used to talk
Speaker 2: about Argentina like it was going to be the United
Speaker 2: States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But you know,
Speaker 2: despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries, they're
Speaker 2: more European than they are like America or can't the
Speaker 2: you know, Chile, UH became a pretty major regional military
Speaker 2: power after what was called the War of the Pacific.
Speaker 2: This took place in in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four.
Speaker 2: Chile fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and
Speaker 2: and one this kind of like uh, you know, like
Speaker 2: like like Prussian style like blitz victory, okay, and acquired
Speaker 2: a lot of territory and a lot of clout. But
Speaker 2: obviously again owing to UH its situation, UH on the
Speaker 2: cone of South America. I mean, there's a strategic significance
Speaker 2: there regardless. You know, it's not like the South Atlantic
Speaker 2: you know, and access to the South Atlantic and specifically
Speaker 2: the ability to engage you know, the US fleet and
Speaker 2: the Atlantic potentially you know before it even you know,
Speaker 2: is able to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western
Speaker 2: hemisphere potentially. I mean that was huge. But it's also
Speaker 2: you know, there's a there, there's there's there's something to
Speaker 2: the idea of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a
Speaker 2: fire that catches or some kind of virul and backless,
Speaker 2: if you'll forgive the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true,
Speaker 2: and people are accepting that more and more now, not
Speaker 2: not because they've taken on some kind of pumutive view
Speaker 2: of communism and history or something, and not even that
Speaker 2: that's that's that's not even really in the contemplation. And
Speaker 2: most of these kind of like neuroscience types and you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk
Speaker 2: about the way like memes become truly viral and like
Speaker 2: information mac the viral you know, that's kind of a
Speaker 2: narrow that's kind of a whittled down version of what
Speaker 2: the phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum
Speaker 2: uh is something that is a real thing. You know,
Speaker 2: it's the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for
Speaker 2: racial and cultural differences and you know, really really controlling
Speaker 2: for all variables, suggesting true diversity. You know this this
Speaker 2: can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know,
Speaker 2: like as I talked about with respect to Vietnam, and
Speaker 2: you know previously one of the ways that part weighs
Speaker 2: with people like Meerscheimer. But this idea that you have
Speaker 2: this kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind
Speaker 2: of cloudset what's on steroids you of warfare like well,
Speaker 2: you know, credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so
Speaker 2: long as you have you know, strategic forces and being
Speaker 2: to devastate your enemy. And there was no quote you know,
Speaker 2: key there there's no essential interest in in Vietnam. It
Speaker 2: didn't matter, you know, in the twentieth century, like wars
Speaker 2: weren't fought you know, to control you know, access to
Speaker 2: rubber plantations you know, or like you know, fur trade
Speaker 2: routes like Vietnam became World War three y proxy because
Speaker 2: like that's where the battle lines were drawn, that's where
Speaker 2: the Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's
Speaker 2: That's where Washington had to had to draw the line
Speaker 2: and respond. You know, it didn't matter that it was
Speaker 2: in CEU East Asia and there's not some quote key
Speaker 2: interests there according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy.
Speaker 2: So in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile,
Speaker 2: I mean there wasn't there wasn't there is, But even
Speaker 2: if there wasn't, it didn't matter. You know, a communist
Speaker 2: revolution there what have would have developed tremendous momentum that
Speaker 2: had profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even
Speaker 2: beyond you know, like the South American continent and into
Speaker 2: you know, Central and uh in North America. Even so,
Speaker 2: I don't think to keep in mind, now what what
Speaker 2: was the situation in Chile generally like because this is important.
Speaker 2: It relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself
Speaker 2: and why they were such a test case and staunch
Speaker 2: resistance to communism and being a cultural anthropologist, they used
Speaker 2: to write quite a bit about this, you know, why
Speaker 2: why some of these in their mind and this is
Speaker 2: a superficial view of my point, like why some of
Speaker 2: these Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain,
Speaker 2: but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from
Speaker 2: those cultural malons. They're not these people don't represent a
Speaker 2: martial race in the way you think of like the
Speaker 2: Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like
Speaker 2: military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh,
Speaker 2: whether it's the cot is a you know the quote
Speaker 2: of Adalgo kind of like large is it? You know
Speaker 2: that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism.
Speaker 2: I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually
Speaker 2: quite fascinating.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But the you see, this is some degree in France too,
Speaker 2: but in the Iberian cultures it's more pronounced. But the
Speaker 2: military heads had an outsized role in Chile, you know,
Speaker 2: like it did in Spain, like it didn't Portugal, like
Speaker 2: it does in Italy, or it didn't Italy. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is a fact. There was a there was a culture
Speaker 2: into itself. Okay, now there is it. Chile. As I
Speaker 2: just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography. It's always south of
Speaker 2: potential encirclement by rival states the north and to the east,
Speaker 2: so it's institutional orientation of its armed forces was always
Speaker 2: on the possibility of fighting a multi front war. Now
Speaker 2: who executives that sound like that sounds exactly like the Prussians,
Speaker 2: and what gave rise to the staff system, which you know,
Speaker 2: ultimately every modern army imitates. But there was going to
Speaker 2: this fact even before the Chilean military modernized, you know,
Speaker 2: in the in the wake of you know, the the
Speaker 2: Great War and what have you. There's always certain there
Speaker 2: there's always an understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean
Speaker 2: army in particularly the army had to be built around
Speaker 2: a kind of cadre structure, you know, where some version
Speaker 2: of mission oriented tactics that had to be cultivated. You know,
Speaker 2: they're like, you know, anybody in a leadership role from
Speaker 2: like NCO upward would have to exhibit you know, a
Speaker 2: superior training efficiency motivation you know, basically man for man,
Speaker 2: be better than the enemy. Okay, because again Chile was
Speaker 2: was basically always facing a kind of like on Schleief
Speaker 2: and quagmire, if that makes any sense. And there's certain
Speaker 2: anthropological factors too, of a of a more kind of
Speaker 2: cultural nature, okay, Like the the Chilean arny was very
Speaker 2: very very Catholic. The background of Pinochet himself as well
Speaker 2: as Admiral Marino Jose Todebo Merino Castro. They were the
Speaker 2: two most important figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front,
Speaker 2: but this was you know, ruled by a military committee basically,
Speaker 2: and uh not, Marino was. Ah, it was kind of
Speaker 2: the brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was
Speaker 2: a very intelligent man, as we'll see, but admirals tend
Speaker 2: to be like a cut above in terms of intellectual
Speaker 2: capabilities and organizational skills and things. But they both, these
Speaker 2: men kind of came to define. They were both like
Speaker 2: exemplars of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so,
Speaker 2: and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in
Speaker 2: the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet once
Speaker 2: into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter,
Speaker 2: like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us,
Speaker 2: you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions
Speaker 2: and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing
Speaker 2: the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of
Speaker 2: all of all of the entire church, you know, where
Speaker 2: we're literally like Christian warriors, you know, and Piniche believed
Speaker 2: that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't
Speaker 2: just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you know,
Speaker 2: shore up his is his like image or something, you know.
Speaker 2: And even even if he'd wanted to like, that's not
Speaker 2: the way he'd go about it. I mean, even even
Speaker 2: then when there was you know, kind of a Catholic
Speaker 2: moment owing to the only only a certain certain things
Speaker 2: related to the Cold War and in the situation in
Speaker 2: Northern Ireland and other stuff. But you know, the event
Speaker 2: after World War Two, obviously people you know think about
Speaker 2: they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these Latin
Speaker 2: American states, you know, taking up with America in uh
Speaker 2: for you know, for out of strategic convenience as well
Speaker 2: as going to the you know kind of the kind
Speaker 2: of pentagons like outsized influence only to them on ro
Speaker 2: doctorate and other things, and just kind of like historical variables,
Speaker 2: you know, plus the fact that direct uh capital subsidies
Speaker 2: were always coveted, you know by these countries. You know,
Speaker 2: even though these states weren't ruined by World War Two,
Speaker 2: they were only gonna touch you know, there was they
Speaker 2: still they were still short on development and perpetually short
Speaker 2: on capital. But there was something superficial about this on
Speaker 2: the side of UH, these states who were coveting American patronage,
Speaker 2: like US military influence never really took in Latin America.
Speaker 2: You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras,
Speaker 2: El Salvador, all these all these states where you know
Speaker 2: that America, all these states that basically America set up
Speaker 2: things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military
Speaker 2: and independence with like, US military influence never overwhelmed the
Speaker 2: kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know,
Speaker 2: there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout
Speaker 2: you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially,
Speaker 2: but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know
Speaker 2: what we're talking about, like the efforts of you know,
Speaker 2: the American successive American regimes to kind of you know,
Speaker 2: cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American
Speaker 2: you know, like military type regimes it UH.
Speaker 3: And the.
Speaker 2: You know, the and even UH even in terms of
Speaker 2: professional development and things like all modern armies need to
Speaker 2: be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know,
Speaker 2: relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that
Speaker 2: very much like like a very like in Chile as
Speaker 2: well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent
Speaker 2: class within the army developed, but beyond that at the
Speaker 2: kind of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional
Speaker 2: culture of America like didn't really take there, you know,
Speaker 2: Like now, now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile
Speaker 2: there's a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from
Speaker 2: immigrant backgrounds now against a Chile Those immigrants were German,
Speaker 2: they were English, they were Italian, they were French, they
Speaker 2: were Syrian, they were Croatian. That's why when you look
Speaker 2: at like a roster of a of the Chilean officer corps,
Speaker 2: like first of all, it's a bunch of like white
Speaker 2: and kind of like Arab or like you know, Italian
Speaker 2: looking guys. And they've got like European surnames, you know,
Speaker 2: so you've you've quite literally got this kind of European
Speaker 2: and europe In europe adjacent officer corps in a country
Speaker 2: that's you know, frankly majority mixed race, you know, so
Speaker 2: it's you're talking about like literally like a culture within it,
Speaker 2: within a broader culture, you know, not just of an
Speaker 2: institutional sort, but of you know, an actual you know,
Speaker 2: like like like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sword rather
Speaker 2: like categorically like uh, there were two German speaking Lutherans
Speaker 2: on uh on uh in the junta. It was uh
Speaker 2: Fernando Matthai uh the Air Force commander, and Rodolpho Strange,
Speaker 2: who was the chief and National Police. I mean there
Speaker 2: you go, and uh, A lot of these immigrant families,
Speaker 2: if they weren't moneyed, you know, like they they encourage
Speaker 2: their sons to become military officers because that was really
Speaker 2: the way. That was the only way you can get
Speaker 2: clout if you weren't part of the national majority, you know.
Speaker 2: The Uh. Now, of course the Marxist view, which has
Speaker 2: faded somewhat obviously it's the Cold War, but it's kind
Speaker 2: of like this, it's kind of like this cockroach that
Speaker 2: won't die. It's just like emerges again and again and
Speaker 2: and it doesn't help it. Like Howard is in, it
Speaker 2: kind of has like new life now in US academia,
Speaker 2: but most scholars, even most military sociologists, they're tainted some
Speaker 2: of this idea that like you know, look like South
Speaker 2: American soldiers like you know, from the officer corps on down,
Speaker 2: you know, to the end level of n CEOs. They
Speaker 2: just represented there. They were basically like mercenaries who like
Speaker 2: represent the interests of global capitalism, like backed up by
Speaker 2: the Pentagon, you know. And they and they were like
Speaker 2: basically like the security force that technocrats and and uh
Speaker 2: and and and you know in in factory owners you know,
Speaker 2: and you know they're they're they're raised on detro destroyed
Speaker 2: left wing politics, you know, and empower these technocrats who
Speaker 2: can facilitate, you know, the the assimilation of these countries
Speaker 2: like into the globalist structure. Like that doesn't really make
Speaker 2: any sense, okay, And like it doesn't in the case
Speaker 2: like a real lack of understanding of kind of human
Speaker 2: motivations and what attracts people to, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: the institutional trappings of like heritage and ritual and stuff.
Speaker 2: Like nobody a bunch of a bunch of salvad Orian
Speaker 2: National police types and a bunch of Chilean officers weren't
Speaker 2: just like pretending to be Catholic because they're like they
Speaker 2: were worried about their public image. You know, they weren't uh,
Speaker 2: they weren't goose stepping around the parade deck because they
Speaker 2: thought that that would make people. They thought that they
Speaker 2: thought that that would like help their image. Okay, I mean,
Speaker 2: like it's it's not you know, plus the kind of
Speaker 2: stuff that you know, as we'll see, you know, guys
Speaker 2: like Pinochet. You know, these this was not a situation
Speaker 2: like with Zelenski, where uh you know, some sort of
Speaker 2: christ I mean, you couldn't really have a Zelensky situation
Speaker 2: in the Cold War. But my point is not it's
Speaker 2: not like it's not like Pinochet. It was like pocketing
Speaker 2: a bunch of money and him in his general as well,
Speaker 2: getting rich and picking up teenage mistresses and like ripping
Speaker 2: around in mercedes and in the streets of uh, you know,
Speaker 2: Santiago or whatever. You know it. These guys lived almost
Speaker 2: on a nastic life, you know, like they they didn't
Speaker 2: they didn't live in pot but they you know, they
Speaker 2: did they didn't they didn't have means, they didn't have means,
Speaker 2: you know, like even uh like Pinochet prior to prior
Speaker 2: to the junta, and even he he basically like lived
Speaker 2: like a popper or it didn't really own anything, you know,
Speaker 2: something this idea that, this idea that you know, oh well,
Speaker 2: all these all these kinds of weird I mean, not
Speaker 2: weird in a punitive way, but all these unusual let
Speaker 2: me let let's let's let's employ that the scriptor this
Speaker 2: kind of like unusual features a Latin American military life,
Speaker 2: that somehow these were just like super structural trappings, you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of like hid what amount to do a
Speaker 2: literally mercenary ethos like that's this is like nonsense. Now
Speaker 2: what uh what was we we? You know, we we
Speaker 2: got to the fact that America didn't really put a
Speaker 2: lasting stamp on the on the Latin American military culture
Speaker 2: generally and specifically l and military life. But what did
Speaker 2: well after the UH after the War the Pacific, you know,
Speaker 2: which we talked about a minute ago, which ended in
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty four, the president UH, the Mingo Santa Maria,
Speaker 2: he realized that the army need to modernize and reorganize
Speaker 2: itself in the model of a European army. They basically
Speaker 2: out fought Peru and Bolivia, you know, but it uh,
Speaker 2: they you know, the world was changing, and he and
Speaker 2: the army was still low tech, like basically with carry
Speaker 2: the day was again like a very game officer corps
Speaker 2: you know, that was and cod event CIOs the rent
Speaker 2: of missionary and tactics and frankly, you know, just a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of a lot of men who
Speaker 2: are very tough and very hungry for prestige and uh
Speaker 2: and to serve the fatherland. But what uh what the
Speaker 2: what the Chileans decided on they fixed their sites Andermany,
Speaker 2: who they viewed as uh, you know, kind of like
Speaker 2: the zenith of of of a military prowess, you know.
Speaker 2: And and then that's kind of when German cloud was
Speaker 2: at its was added zenith. I would say, okay, the uh,
Speaker 2: the Chilean regime, it was it was already familiar with
Speaker 2: Germans as a people, like in the south of the country,
Speaker 2: basically the German colonization down there, like it it led
Speaker 2: to tremendous capital development, you know, and the uh, there's
Speaker 2: basically a sense of like, well, what can't these people
Speaker 2: do you know, like it? Uh, we we want to
Speaker 2: cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway, because you know, they're
Speaker 2: like we basically like we need these people. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like a shot in the arm of our the
Speaker 2: entire paradigm and national development. You know. The embassy in Berlin,
Speaker 2: the Chilean embassy in Berlin was in the charge of
Speaker 2: a guy named Guermo Mata. He contacted the German military directly.
Speaker 2: He apparently had some kind of good rapport with Marshall
Speaker 2: von Molt, you know, who was uh like a heavy
Speaker 2: heavy personage and he uh, he was ultimately uh he
Speaker 2: was ultimately put uh put in touch with the man
Speaker 2: named Emil Corner, who was an artillery captain Opprussian and
Speaker 2: he was stationed at the Artillery and Engineering School of Charlottenburg.
Speaker 2: So basically he had a background minus the calorie experience
Speaker 2: like blacksjack person. You know, this is exact the kind
Speaker 2: of man you want, you know, if you're looking for,
Speaker 2: like a single man, you know, uh of a middle
Speaker 2: level officer rank to bring your forces up to par
Speaker 2: you know it. Uh, they really kind of struck gold
Speaker 2: with them. The guy was also like a big war hero,
Speaker 2: you know. He uh he signed on for a five
Speaker 2: year work agreement with Chile AIDS and he basically the
Speaker 2: Chileans told him, like you know, basically they turn our
Speaker 2: forest into the Prussian Army. Okay, and after becoming a
Speaker 2: Chilean officer himself corner sort of the armies inspector general
Speaker 2: for a decade from until nineteen ten. Okay. So the
Speaker 2: army that the army that Pinochet joined joined in nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty three, Okay, suspicious year, right, And Uh, basically this
Speaker 2: army had just been like restructured into kind of like
Speaker 2: the Prussian Army of Latin America. Okay, it was a
Speaker 2: totally different institution then, Uh than that that that was,
Speaker 2: you know, people entered, you know, like a generation earlier.
Speaker 2: You know that like Pinichet's father, like you know, would
Speaker 2: have would have encountered. Pinochet was born. Uh, he was
Speaker 2: born in November nineteenth, November twenty fifth, nineteen, nineteen fifteen.
Speaker 2: He was the descendant of Breton immigrants and uh and Basques.
Speaker 2: His bass carritage was maternal. The family had been in
Speaker 2: Chile since the seventeenth century. The Breton immigrants were recent.
Speaker 2: But that's uh, that's a very interesting pedigree at least,
Speaker 2: I think. So Penichet always wanted to be a soldier.
Speaker 2: His great uncle was a veteran of the war in
Speaker 2: the Pacific, his uh you know, his his godfather told
Speaker 2: him about you know, uh serving in the French army
Speaker 2: in World War One. Eventually his father kind of like relented,
Speaker 2: even though he wanted him to study medicine, you know,
Speaker 2: and pursue a more kind of traditional path to the
Speaker 2: cloud because, like Pinochet, his family was well off. You know,
Speaker 2: they weren't. They weren't people who needed, you know, a
Speaker 2: military officer's son to enjoy upward mobility, and uh, what
Speaker 2: was common, uh, what was common among his counterie of officers,
Speaker 2: including you know, historians have taken the oral histories of
Speaker 2: these guys who came of age when pinishated it, and
Speaker 2: there's actually a fair amount of like these in conflict
Speaker 2: literature on this. You know, I'm not not necessarily friendly variant,
Speaker 2: but it's it's pretty value neutral. But these guys, it
Speaker 2: wasn't just Pinish it. He wasn't just kind of like
Speaker 2: romantic dream or outlier like the officers of that generation.
Speaker 2: Pretty much to a man, they talked about pious Catholicism
Speaker 2: and a childhood fascination with with like military heroes, you know,
Speaker 2: and like the discipline of you know these you know
Speaker 2: these uh, the you know, the these these officers who
Speaker 2: were you know who in in like Prussian uniforms, you know,
Speaker 2: but like flawless like raide drill and things like that.
Speaker 2: You know, like this is basically like any like any
Speaker 2: kid of like European stock, like European or Arab or
Speaker 2: like you know, adjacent stock in Chile, Like this is
Speaker 2: what he wanted to be, you know, like they can't
Speaker 2: really be overstated. Like Robert O'Kelly, who's Pinechet's economics minister,
Speaker 2: you know, and again, uh, you know, a guy of
Speaker 2: European pedigree, his grandfather was a was a navy man
Speaker 2: and the word of the Pacific, like he said, like
Speaker 2: in his biography, it never is autobiography. It never It
Speaker 2: never occurred to me to be anything else than a sailor, Like,
Speaker 2: without a doubt, the navy is a vocation like the priesthood.
Speaker 2: Not everybody is called to be tied to the post.
Speaker 2: Like that's the way these guys looked at it again,
Speaker 2: you know, like where the where they where the vanguard
Speaker 2: of the fatherland and where you know, and we're and
Speaker 2: we're you know where they we're the church militant. You know,
Speaker 2: that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural identitarian variables.
Speaker 2: You know, the uh and there was ah the army
Speaker 2: uh in there a a uh even even when even
Speaker 2: when a military draft was implemented pursue it to the
Speaker 2: you know, twentieth century reforms like the way like army literature,
Speaker 2: like they're like recruiting literature at the time and kind
Speaker 2: of like they're they're sort of you know, after these
Speaker 2: like kind of like after action what amounts are kind
Speaker 2: of like these kind of like romantic novels of like
Speaker 2: The Daring do of of Officers and the Ward of
Speaker 2: the Pacific. But it's kind of like dressed up as
Speaker 2: like after action reports. Like it was like all like
Speaker 2: the theme that is like on the nose, like through
Speaker 2: all this stuff is uh. You know that you know,
Speaker 2: being a soldier is is it's it's it's different than
Speaker 2: any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to the fatherland,
Speaker 2: you know, like like a monk gives his life to
Speaker 2: the church, you know, And it's it's not that that
Speaker 2: that's unique. It's uniquely Catholic. It's like you need, it's
Speaker 2: both uniquely Prussian and uniquely Catholic, which is you know,
Speaker 2: a collision of ah of opposing tendencies. But you know
Speaker 2: that's uh that there's there's a syncreticism. There's a syncretism
Speaker 2: there that's really interesting. But the uh there it also
Speaker 2: something and this was again like another Prussian tendency that
Speaker 2: was brought to bear. There's a really strong devotion to
Speaker 2: continual study of warfare it uh. Pinochet said that, you know,
Speaker 2: he first started reading when he got to the military.
Speaker 2: His first reading assignment was The Rebellion of the mass
Speaker 2: it is or the Revolt of the Master it is
Speaker 2: by Jose Ortega. He guess it's and a lot of
Speaker 2: friends of ours will be familiar with it. And the
Speaker 2: Gallic War is by Caesar. After that he became this bibliophile.
Speaker 2: Pinochet when he died one to approximately fifty five thousand books, like,
Speaker 2: many of which were rare and one of a kind.
Speaker 2: So he was a he was another like man of books.
Speaker 2: That makes me feel a bit better about my own
Speaker 2: book coorting. Frankly, now here's get into kind of like
Speaker 2: the nitty gritty of what created this, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of irreparable divide between you know, civil society and the
Speaker 2: Chilean army. You know what it wasn't just the kind
Speaker 2: of factors we talked about a moment ago of an
Speaker 2: identitarian sort, but very very few military personnel actually voted
Speaker 2: in elections in Chile, even though they were they were
Speaker 2: technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but it was considered unseemly.
Speaker 2: You know, Uh, soldiers aren't supposed to be political, and
Speaker 2: you know, not just because they're they're supposed to serve,
Speaker 2: you know, the fatherland first and foremost, and not not
Speaker 2: discreet you know, political factions or interests they're in, but
Speaker 2: it's also like it's it's it's viewed. They viewed it
Speaker 2: as like beneath them, you know, particularly consider the kind
Speaker 2: of elitist and and you know, uh monastic sort of
Speaker 2: a kind of like self concept these men had. And
Speaker 2: also the uh when the when the draft was uh,
Speaker 2: when when the conscript when the when the conscription regime
Speaker 2: was implemented, you know, uh, the like the new conscripts.
Speaker 2: I couldn't vote, you know, because they weren't they weren't, uh,
Speaker 2: they weren't twenty one.
Speaker 1: What's interesting I saw an interview with Michael Flynn. I
Speaker 1: think Patrick bed David was interviewing and Michael Flynn said
Speaker 1: the same thing. He said when I was in I
Speaker 1: never voted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no. And it's it's really dysfunctional. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean the US military is like it's like as
Speaker 2: awful as the rest of the fucking regime. But it's
Speaker 2: it's really, really, really dysfunctional. It's on its own face
Speaker 2: for you to have you know, any like when you're
Speaker 2: talking aout the officer corps of the enlicited ranks, did
Speaker 2: it you know, be like committed to some you know
Speaker 2: some like electoral position. Yeah, you know, it's some people
Speaker 2: can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: You know, you know what pre servers fook you for
Speaker 2: basing Like I I know what I'm talking about in
Speaker 2: this regard, Okay, I I Am not gonna argue the
Speaker 2: point because it's obvious. But the it considering, uh, considering
Speaker 2: the size of that of Chile's electorate and the number
Speaker 2: of commission and noncommissioned officers and the forearmed services taken together,
Speaker 2: and this is both politically and statistically significant. Like military votes,
Speaker 2: they're like if if if I'm listening to an authors
Speaker 2: had voted in appreciable numbers, it may not have decided
Speaker 2: any any any and you know, any presidential context one
Speaker 2: or the other, but relatively but relatively small pluralities decided
Speaker 2: national elections regularly in Chile, and particularly in nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: eight and nineteen seventy, where uh uh something like thirty
Speaker 2: nine thousand votes, you know, like like we're what put
Speaker 2: the winning candidate over you know, it's the uh and
Speaker 2: also too like it was it was, it was. It
Speaker 2: was against the law. It was a literally, it was
Speaker 2: literally a crime for you know that would have available
Speaker 2: to court martial to protest, you know. Uh. And that
Speaker 2: was a pretty that was a pretty widely that's pretty
Speaker 2: that's pretty loosely interpreted. Okay, I mean anybody, you know,
Speaker 2: a man could be brought up on charges and have
Speaker 2: failed to courts martial, you know, not just for joining
Speaker 2: you know, some not just like throwing bricks in the
Speaker 2: street at you know, at at at capitalists or whatever,
Speaker 2: but just if you associated with the parties that were
Speaker 2: considered to be you know, having have a platform that
Speaker 2: tended towards you know, trying to get this credit the
Speaker 2: political process, you know, based on ideological commitments or you know,
Speaker 2: associating with parties who's you know, do his type of members,
Speaker 2: you know, had said things that imped impugned the honor
Speaker 2: of the fatherland like this is this is not something
Speaker 2: they would have fucked with. Okay, like even even more
Speaker 2: they inclined and they weren't.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 2: Pinochet to I mean starting a service, you know, quite
Speaker 2: literally in nineteen thirty three, there was even greater kind
Speaker 2: of technical aptitude demanded by new officers, especially in the
Speaker 2: Navy and the Air Force, but I mean also in
Speaker 2: the army, particularly as regards command and control, you know,
Speaker 2: the UH so, as these officers became more world leagues,
Speaker 2: they had to be like they'd send them they'd be
Speaker 2: sent to you know, they'd be sent to uh Africa, Asia, Europe,
Speaker 2: other places in Latin America, you know, to a NL
Speaker 2: liaison capacity and to like learn from other militaries and
Speaker 2: like as these guys developed, you know, linguistic aptitudes, food
Speaker 2: for foreign languages. As they literally saw the rest of
Speaker 2: the world, you know, they talked to you know, they
Speaker 2: they talked to Wehrmacht officers, you know, they talk to
Speaker 2: you know, French officers, they talk to guys you know,
Speaker 2: like serving uh in uh In, you know, in Mexico
Speaker 2: close to the American border or whatever. Like, they developed
Speaker 2: a worldly perspective and they came to understand you know,
Speaker 2: as time went on, they you know, they came to
Speaker 2: they came to understand the Cold War, you know, and
Speaker 2: they developed an idea of like where Chile featured into that,
Speaker 2: you know, by the Pinochet era. Like It's what I'm
Speaker 2: getting is that these weren't just like a bunch of
Speaker 2: provincial roots or something, or like we're trying to turn
Speaker 2: back the clock or whatever. And they weren't just you know,
Speaker 2: mercenaries for hire in the service of you know, basically
Speaker 2: acting like acting like you know, like like like Pinkertons
Speaker 2: on steroids, you know, beat down or calc Trent like
Speaker 2: waver types. You know. They they developed an understanding of
Speaker 2: like velt politique and where Latin America featured into that equation,
Speaker 2: you know. And this brings us to what was insidious
Speaker 2: about Alende. Okay, Sauter LNDE in the nineteen sixties was
Speaker 2: a very busy boy. Okay. His schedule took him in
Speaker 2: North Korea, North Vietnam, in East Germany. Allende believed that
Speaker 2: the DDR was his best bet in terms of identifying
Speaker 2: a patron the which is very interesting. And the DDR
Speaker 2: it wasn't just the spear point of Warsaw pack like
Speaker 2: the National volks Army wasn't just a spear point of
Speaker 2: warsaw pact. And not only was East Germany kind of
Speaker 2: like the crown jewel of like the Stalinist satellite states,
Speaker 2: East Germany practiced the kind of world politique in a
Speaker 2: way that the Cubans did, but like a little bit
Speaker 2: more sophisticated. Even like there's East Germans and Angola, there
Speaker 2: was East Germans Yemen which became South Yemen. There's these
Speaker 2: Germans uh in Ethiopia, Eritrea. There's East Germans on Grenada
Speaker 2: when you know, the US Army assaulted Grenado in eighty
Speaker 2: three for a for what I'm want to do, a
Speaker 2: rump state of twenty million people and a regime that
Speaker 2: was constantly uh dealing with an existential threat on its
Speaker 2: inner border. Like literally like these guys were remarkably active
Speaker 2: in uh In, in waging the Cold War and in
Speaker 2: a in like a direct action capacity, you know, the same,
Speaker 2: nothing like the bottom Minehoff Gang to say nothing of
Speaker 2: you know, uh them bank rolling and training the popular
Speaker 2: front of Libers in Palestine, like it's remarkable, but Allende
Speaker 2: knew this. Okay, in East Berlin, Aline met with the
Speaker 2: party secretary general and the facto you know, head of
Speaker 2: state to Ubrict who preceded Honiker from forty nine to
Speaker 2: seventy one. Ubrict was General Secretary and then he was
Speaker 2: under cremoniously sideline and favor of Honiker from nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: one until the end. But uh he uh ubricked uh
Speaker 2: put him in direct contact with Hermann Akson, who was
Speaker 2: who was uh the Central Committee secretary for an natural
Speaker 2: relation is the equivalent to the foreign minister. Okay, action's
Speaker 2: assignment for the duration of his tenure, particularly in the
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies, he was the function as a liaison
Speaker 2: with communist parties throughout the world, you know, and and
Speaker 2: basically the this this is the stuff that smacks of,
Speaker 2: you know, like the old days the Communist International, you know,
Speaker 2: which uh with Stalin you know, put an end to
Speaker 2: by Dick Todd and and turned into common form. But
Speaker 2: it's but but it goes to show you how uh
Speaker 2: how these this these things never really went away. You know,
Speaker 2: they developed a certain operational sophistication and and kind of
Speaker 2: institutionalization and and and kind of and kind of a
Speaker 2: streamline operational set of operational tendencies. But you know, they
Speaker 2: they remained the same beast of prey, but with different
Speaker 2: slightly different stripes. It uh as it were. But whether
Speaker 2: lend they met with the Stazi directly and Eric Milk,
Speaker 2: it's not known, but I imagine he would have. Okay,
Speaker 2: Eric Milk was uh, he was in direct content with
Speaker 2: Daniel Ortega, with uh, with Kadafi, with Minjitsu, with uh,
Speaker 2: you know, all these all these uh, all these proxy
Speaker 2: all these proxy elements that the Warsaw Pact was was uh,
Speaker 2: you know, directly supporting and Shtazi men. Uh. Their role
Speaker 2: was not just as uh you know, policeman and as
Speaker 2: espionage espionage agents. They had a role that we considered
Speaker 2: it more kind of the more suggestive of special operations command.
Speaker 2: It's complicated, but uh, the the East Berlin basically treated
Speaker 2: accents recommendations like they came from on high. Okay, he
Speaker 2: was that good. I think of this kind of like
Speaker 2: a I think kind of I think of this kind
Speaker 2: of it's kind of like a a red crowd version
Speaker 2: of George Kennon like legit, I mean, I have, like
Speaker 2: all respect, A lot of these d d R functionaries
Speaker 2: are damn impressive, definitely the best that the worst up
Speaker 2: pack produced. Of course, what A Linda was doing didn't
Speaker 2: go unnoticed. C I a Defense Intelligence CIA at that time.
Speaker 2: It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it
Speaker 2: was still uh, it was still primarily like the eyes
Speaker 2: and ears of of American intelligence behind the East blot,
Speaker 2: behind the Berlin Wall, you know, so CI they took
Speaker 2: notes immediately when Allende was started popping up in East Berlin.
Speaker 2: Uh Nixon, Uh Nixon, Uh, said the Kissinger. He's like, look,
Speaker 2: you know, this Alandi's not he's not some he's not
Speaker 2: some simple farmer or some storry eyed you know, uh
Speaker 2: just uh, you know, self styled. Uh. You know, a
Speaker 2: grarian revolutionary like this guy is serious, you know, and
Speaker 2: he's he's not what you know American liberals are presenting
Speaker 2: him as. And he's not benign. You know. Kids in
Speaker 2: Jerre obviously agreed. I mean, I you know, it's uh.
Speaker 2: The uh also is the fact chill the Chilean the
Speaker 2: Chilean Communist Party was uh. It was by far the
Speaker 2: largest and best organized in South America. Okay, And that's
Speaker 2: one of the things. That's one of the things that
Speaker 2: made it appealing to the d d R. And also
Speaker 2: we were talking about the Germans and the wonderful things
Speaker 2: they did for Chile. Well, some of those Germans were
Speaker 2: unfortunately communists, and they you know, we're building up political
Speaker 2: architecture on the other side, you know, and this was, uh,
Speaker 2: this is very much a problem it uh. I mean
Speaker 2: from a geopolitical view, I mean, think about that, like
Speaker 2: the cone of Latin America just becoming communists, you know,
Speaker 2: or uh, all of Latin America falling and maybe Brazil
Speaker 2: remaining kind of in this garrison siege capacity. I mean
Speaker 2: that that changes everything, you know. And like I've always said,
Speaker 2: like I'm always saying, it didn't matter that these Marsis
Speaker 2: Lens regimes are totally dysfunctional and created a created economies
Speaker 2: of shortage. There's all kinds of governments that don't really work.
Speaker 2: Right that that Shambalaine perpetuity, It was very possible. It
Speaker 2: was not at all the stuff of kind of like
Speaker 2: fever dream nightmare fantasies to imagine a world where post
Speaker 2: aton like the entire the entire like developing world or
Speaker 2: colored world goes red like kind of the remaining uh
Speaker 2: like American friendly regimes outside of UH, Northern Europe and Japan,
Speaker 2: you know, just like eventually just kind of like succumb
Speaker 2: and fall and America becomes kind of just like this
Speaker 2: say Garrison state, like surrounded by like a hostile communist
Speaker 2: world like that very easily could have come about, okay,
Speaker 2: and that that would be a very dangerous planet. You know,
Speaker 2: we get argue at some or we can discuss at
Speaker 2: some point whether that's preferable or not to the current situation.
Speaker 2: But it that's Monday morning quarterbacking in the epoch of
Speaker 2: you know, say nineteen seventy three, you know, seventy four
Speaker 2: to seventy five, this was absolutely a very real possibility. Okay.
Speaker 2: Now the minute, the minute, the moment A. Lindy was
Speaker 2: elected President Chile, UH, the East German regime like through
Speaker 2: Stazi support behind him. Okay, within a couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: it doesn't like COVID operations. The grilla warfare specialists who
Speaker 2: were from the Stazi, they were dispatched at santiagoa nder
Speaker 2: diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Bloc UH
Speaker 2: special operations capable elements, including from Czechoslovakia and and and
Speaker 2: then the Soviet Union itself and all probability. They set
Speaker 2: up a camp near Valparaiso. Uh. The Soviets furnished weapons,
Speaker 2: prefabricated huts. They like they literally just set up this
Speaker 2: kind of like gorilla warfare school, like bam, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's like, uh, it's like if you buy like
Speaker 2: a McDonald's franchise. It's like you buy like a you buy,
Speaker 2: you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan, and
Speaker 2: they show up and it's just like bam, you know,
Speaker 2: here's here's like your franchise literature. Here's a buy klashn
Speaker 2: coughs you. Here's something like snazzy freaking uh you know,
Speaker 2: uh uniforms, and you know, and here here's some you know,
Speaker 2: like here's something like enameled like red star pins for
Speaker 2: your freaking cap and like you're good to go, you know,
Speaker 2: like go go go, go go kill capitalists. But the
Speaker 2: uh and Milk actually wrote he he Milk, it would
Speaker 2: uh he'd set out these what amounts to enter off
Speaker 2: his memos to every directorate of Stasi periodically and on
Speaker 2: December eighteenth, nineteen seventy two, he said, uh, you know
Speaker 2: the checks the d DR well will welcome with enthusiasm
Speaker 2: and happiness the great victory of the National Celerity movement
Speaker 2: for obtaining the freedom of the Secondary General or the
Speaker 2: Communist Party. Our friend and comrade Lewis Krvellon, like Corvellon,
Speaker 2: was some guy who'd been like in prison in Chile.
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly what the and Milk would call.
Speaker 2: He called UH Ministry for State Security Officers like checkis,
Speaker 2: you know, because there was a callback to his days
Speaker 2: as ah as an NKVD hitter, you know, during during
Speaker 2: the war in Spain and later the UH later UH
Speaker 2: the Second World War. But my point is like he
Speaker 2: was attuned like like Chile was very much like a
Speaker 2: key like theater in his mind. Okay, That's why he was.
Speaker 2: That's why he was UH like braying about you know
Speaker 2: these these uh these kind of like like like little
Speaker 2: chess moves in Chile, like in Blu of other theaters.
Speaker 2: The the Stazi set set to work UH in Chile,
Speaker 2: UH targeting uh, you know, target tareting Pinochet loyalists and
Speaker 2: what have you. You know, Essentially essentially creating like a
Speaker 2: mirror of you know, in security terms, you know, like
Speaker 2: this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't
Speaker 2: Allende wasn't in the driver's seat long enough for Santiago
Speaker 2: to become you know, like a giant, a giant version
Speaker 2: of of of East Berlin. But I think I mentioned
Speaker 2: to you can't remember we were on here or not.
Speaker 2: But like Ali North mentioned that when he was uh
Speaker 2: when he traveled do uh, when he traveled in Nicaragua
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty three or eighty four, like when when
Speaker 2: he himself was under diplomatic cover, like he relaid back
Speaker 2: by like telex that you know, like Monagua now is
Speaker 2: like it's like this like a scale model of of
Speaker 2: Checkpoint Charlie on the inner German border, you know, and
Speaker 2: it now what what happened during Pinochet's rain or like
Speaker 2: the junta's reign, Chile had deteriorated into what something comparable
Speaker 2: to the years of lead in Italy. Okay, there's a
Speaker 2: leftist urban guerrilla terror groups. They began uh a campaign
Speaker 2: of bombings, assassinations, you know, exactly the kind of bread
Speaker 2: and butter stuff that the Shtasi taught people to do.
Speaker 2: You know, there was a that there's bombs exploding in Santiago,
Speaker 2: in Vienna, Del mar In, uh, in all the major
Speaker 2: you know kind of commercial hubs and larger towns at Chile.
Speaker 2: You know, they were they were, they were, they were,
Speaker 2: they were targeting supermarkets, buses, government offices, you know, like
Speaker 2: shopping centers, you know, just like indiscriminately, like blowing people
Speaker 2: to hell. You know, this really ramped up in Earnest
Speaker 2: by the eighties, which is interesting. Between nine eighty three
Speaker 2: and nineteen eighty six, there's more than a thousand bombings
Speaker 2: attributed to the Clandestine Communist Front and uh, this grouping
Speaker 2: that called itself the Revolutionary Movement, which is probably an
Speaker 2: umbrella of it was probably like a like numerous like
Speaker 2: nonstate actors like under this kind of like rubric, you know,
Speaker 2: but because it may like they uh they uh. A
Speaker 2: total of twenty one national police and military casualties were
Speaker 2: attributed to them in just four years nineteen eighty four
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight. East Germany contributed six million, seven or
Speaker 2: ninety five thousand and fifteen dollars to the Chilean Communist Party.
Speaker 2: That's a huge sum for forty years ago, and this
Speaker 2: is East Germany doing it. So they're basically just like
Speaker 2: they're they're they're throwing everything in their cash or there
Speaker 2: is basically that they've availed for, you know, foreign operations
Speaker 2: of a military sort. They're they're just like throwing this
Speaker 2: into the at their proxies in Chile. You know, I
Speaker 2: mean this was a this is a this is a
Speaker 2: highly valued battle theater. Okay, the UH the most serious
Speaker 2: incident I guess of a in terms of potential harm
Speaker 2: and the most kind of spectacular not not not let
Speaker 2: like literally spectacular in terms of the spectacle that I created,
Speaker 2: not spectation like it's wonderful. Uh So there seven nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty six UH gorillas ambushed Pinochet's motorcade near Santiago pener
Speaker 2: State survived, He didn't, he didn't take any an he led,
Speaker 2: but UH five members of his escort were killed, ten
Speaker 2: people were wounded. The UH it was basically like a
Speaker 2: comic casing of attack. Twelve gunmen from UH calling themselves
Speaker 2: the Manuel where at Riga's Revolutionary Front, UH like simply
Speaker 2: assaulted with with automatic weapons and grenades. There was a
Speaker 2: there was never a trial. The government ever announced in
Speaker 2: the arrest. Presumably these men, those that were not killed
Speaker 2: at the scene were running down and and and and
Speaker 2: and and done away with. Eventually, Uh, there were some
Speaker 2: including UH Cludon Buro Amiida, you know, who UH broke
Speaker 2: with the communists completely owing to UH what he claimed
Speaker 2: was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of the
Speaker 2: East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure he
Speaker 2: I think he probably believed this, you know, He's like,
Speaker 2: I came to realize that if if you know what
Speaker 2: was then my side one, you know, we we end
Speaker 2: up no better than the East Germans and what have you.
Speaker 3: And he broke with.
Speaker 2: Communism and he made he managed to convince everybody, including
Speaker 2: Pinochet's people, that he uh that this was like a
Speaker 2: genuine conversion, and he went on he went on to
Speaker 2: in post Chile to be a like a heavy personage,
Speaker 2: but that he actually uh his he was posted as
Speaker 2: UH as an ambassador in Moscow. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was like like like who's in humor or what,
Speaker 2: but the it uh, you know, and the and the
Speaker 2: list goes on and on of uh these you know,
Speaker 2: communist attacks. UH, even after Pinechet stepped down, you know,
Speaker 2: these these kinds of attacks continued. There's one, I mean
Speaker 2: not in the same kind of earnest but uh, some
Speaker 2: of these revolutionary types they they there's like this crazy
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six, the sem ninety six they escaped, uh,
Speaker 2: they escaped from the yard of the of this of
Speaker 2: this political prison they were held in, like with the
Speaker 2: help of these of these these orovisinal Ira operatives, like
Speaker 2: just like a helicopter like pulled them off the yard,
Speaker 2: just like you know, stuff like you'd see in some
Speaker 2: fucking like John Wick or Jason Boorde movie or something.
Speaker 2: But the you know, the and you know, not not
Speaker 2: for nothing either, like uh, I mean maybe maybe people
Speaker 2: don't know this. Like Honaker uh Eric Honecker was buried.
Speaker 2: He was buried in Chile like after he died and
Speaker 2: they laid the d DR flag on his coffin and everything,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's this was like this idea that
Speaker 2: you know, the Ollendia regime, they were just these like
Speaker 2: kind of like social democrats you know who you know,
Speaker 2: just wanted to you know, kind of like give an
Speaker 2: alternative system a chance, and these fascists, you know, just
Speaker 2: just just destroyed that potentiality. You know. I mean it
Speaker 2: was it was real war, Okay. I mean, there's no
Speaker 2: choice about it. And if people want to, I'm sure
Speaker 2: very nasty things happened to people who were suspected of
Speaker 2: being communists or Communist sympathizers. But I mean what people want,
Speaker 2: like war is a terrible thing, you know, and you
Speaker 2: can't you can't only tell one side of these stories,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I know the Shtazi was doing
Speaker 2: pretty nasty things to people at the same time, and uh,
Speaker 2: the Stazi were agents of a foreign government who were
Speaker 2: trying to, you know, determine the political fate of a
Speaker 2: of a sovereign country. So that's that's about all I
Speaker 2: got for today. We can deep dive more into I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a lie here, and frankly, I mean we can
Speaker 2: we can deep dive more into, like the personage of
Speaker 2: Pinichet if you want, when I get back from my trip,
Speaker 2: but that you know, I kind of want to give
Speaker 2: an overview of a situation as it were, as it
Speaker 2: was you know, politically and u strategically and culturally and
Speaker 2: everything else. I hope I've accomplished that. Well.
Speaker 1: One of the things that people bring up now because
Speaker 1: of a Netflix mini series called a Sinister Sect. There
Speaker 1: was a German colony called the Colonia Dignidad that is
Speaker 1: accused of doing all sorts of like acts of torture.
Speaker 1: People now say p and O Chein knows that there
Speaker 1: were active child molesters operating in the country and he
Speaker 1: would protect them everything. I mean, I hear people I
Speaker 1: know saying these kind of things, and when you start
Speaker 1: deep diving into it, it's like, yeah, I mean, the
Speaker 1: guy was at war the whole time he was in office,
Speaker 1: and you know, to say that he was aware of
Speaker 1: all these things, and you know he just allowed him
Speaker 1: to happen.
Speaker 2: But it's like, why would that even It's like every
Speaker 2: the story always changed. I remember I remember when I
Speaker 2: was in college and this guy was going around and
Speaker 2: he wrote a couple of books. He was some journal
Speaker 2: He was claiming that at the soccer stadium Pinochet's loyalists,
Speaker 2: they'd they'd sit around watching people be beheaded and cheer it,
Speaker 2: and they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them,
Speaker 2: and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like gross for all kinds of reasons,
Speaker 2: but that that's that's so like fucking weird. This is
Speaker 2: like not shit that happens, you know, It's like why
Speaker 2: And I was like who who, Like like what's the
Speaker 2: source for this? Like guys who were watching this like
Speaker 2: came back and told you, like what, Like I it's
Speaker 2: always like something sexually perverted and just like really really
Speaker 2: really gross and just like outlandish, like it's you know,
Speaker 2: the like for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become
Speaker 2: this like fixation of theirs, you know, like uh, like
Speaker 2: it's really weird. You know, it's like why why not? Uh?
Speaker 2: Why not Sellizar Like why not Straws Nerd Like why not? Uh?
Speaker 2: Prone like why why Pinochet? Like you know, Pinochet was
Speaker 2: kind of like what you see is what you get,
Speaker 2: you know, like he was, uh, you know, he's very
Speaker 2: much like I mean, he was very much a like
Speaker 2: we talked about. He was very much like a military
Speaker 2: officer with a kind of Prussian mold who was also
Speaker 2: like a very very very like pious kind of warrior catholic.
Speaker 2: I mean that's there's not I mean there's not that
Speaker 2: there's there's not really a lot there. I mean there's
Speaker 2: a lot there, but I'm i mean, you know what
Speaker 2: not not in terms of you know, these these kinds
Speaker 2: of like deep dark and dirty secrets. Plus it's also
Speaker 2: too like the kind of there's a beenality the kind
Speaker 2: of horrible stuff that goes on at war. It's not
Speaker 2: like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo Nazi
Speaker 2: colony of child molesters who were like experimenting with people's
Speaker 2: DNA and like a soccer stadium where guys like practice
Speaker 2: beast reality. But it's not that's that's something from like
Speaker 2: the Warped Mind to somebody who like watches too much
Speaker 2: Hentai or something, you know, like I this it really is,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like but it's like for years, you know,
Speaker 2: people tell me that that Earnest, like that Nazis they'd
Speaker 2: like take people's skin off and if they had tattoos,
Speaker 2: they'd make it into lamp shades and like show their friends.
Speaker 2: So it's like why would anybody do that? So you're
Speaker 2: basically saying that like the Germans are like a bunch
Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Dahmers, Like like why why would they even
Speaker 2: occur to anybody? You know, Like uh, beyond the fact
Speaker 2: that it's like okay, like where you're getting this information
Speaker 2: and like who's like telling this to people? Like, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what I did today? Like I I like
Speaker 2: I found out with these childlisting Germans and then like
Speaker 2: one of the stadium where like this chip got like
Speaker 2: raped by dogs. It was awesome. I mean like like
Speaker 2: where where's this coming from? Like who's just closing these things?
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well hit up some plugs and we'll
Speaker 1: let on this.
Speaker 2: For sure. Uh, you can find me at real Thomas
Speaker 2: seven seven seven that substack dot com. You can find
Speaker 2: me on Twitter x real Capital r E L Underscore
Speaker 2: number seven h M A S seven seven seven. I'm
Speaker 2: going to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content
Speaker 2: for Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number
Speaker 2: seven h one as space TV. And I think people
Speaker 2: will appreciate what I'm going to be dropping there. And uh,
Speaker 2: by the end of the month, season two with a
Speaker 2: Mind Feaser podcast is going to drop, and at which
Speaker 2: point all season one content is going to be free,
Speaker 2: so be able to access everything from season one and
Speaker 2: all special edition content for free and subscriptiononer Season two
Speaker 2: is only physically five dollars a month, and that's like,
Speaker 2: that's as low as I can go and still remain
Speaker 2: and still not eat a loss. So like, unless you're
Speaker 2: a hobo, you can afford that. So and I'll make
Speaker 2: it worth your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free
Speaker 2: stuff too. That is uh, that is like a.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure I echo everyone
Speaker 1: else when I say this, safe travels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a
Speaker 2: few days.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the
Speaker 1: Pekanana Show. Thomas returns. How are you doing, Thomas?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, Thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, this is long awaited. Last time we did
Speaker 1: a stream together, people asked, you know, we're asking about
Speaker 1: books and things like that. So my idea was I
Speaker 1: told you before, right before you started recording, was like
Speaker 1: books that every partisan should read and should be familiar with,
Speaker 1: So jump right in whenever you're ready.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I always include the caveat, and I
Speaker 2: think people I guess I come off as like annoyed
Speaker 2: where people perceive it that way because people are constantly
Speaker 2: asking me like I'll oh, I'll drop like a postu.
Speaker 2: What about something you know, like on the Spanish Civil
Speaker 2: War or about you know, the Third Reich or about
Speaker 2: the War twin the States, and they'll be like, what's
Speaker 2: a book recommendation on that? But what they mean is,
Speaker 2: you know, like where can I find some sort of
Speaker 2: concise cliffs notes version of you know, like the revisionist
Speaker 2: perspective with World War two or something like that doesn't exist?
Speaker 2: You know, some constantly how to admonish people like look
Speaker 2: like not everything is in a book. There's not. There's
Speaker 2: not like the Big Book of World War two? And
Speaker 2: why why court narratives are wrong or there's not you know,
Speaker 2: why the why the wardsman the States like wasn't about
Speaker 2: like people being mean to black people? You know, like
Speaker 2: it's there's not You're not going to find that. However,
Speaker 2: there are there are seminal texts that you kind of
Speaker 2: have to have more than a rudimentary familiarity with to
Speaker 2: be considered an educated person. And like what books are
Speaker 2: used for is you know, books are a tool a
Speaker 2: I mean not only for you know, not only their
Speaker 2: record of you know, raw data and you know, like
Speaker 2: literally historical record, but it's also I mean to use
Speaker 2: them as conceptual tools to you know, to help identify
Speaker 2: variables and phenomenon you know that that shape you know
Speaker 2: that can sexual horizon on an that box, you know,
Speaker 2: for example, where that identify you know, variables that you
Speaker 2: know constitute as a causal nexus, you know, the reasons
Speaker 2: for you know, historical events, you know, be them like
Speaker 2: seminole or like rather prosaic. So you know, I I
Speaker 2: want to include a caveat here too, Like I'm not
Speaker 2: dropping a list of This isn't some like top ten
Speaker 2: list where you know, like the answers to all of
Speaker 2: your questions about what's wrong with the way historical questions
Speaker 2: are presented or like found within these pages. That's not
Speaker 2: how it works, you know. But at the same time, again,
Speaker 2: I I think for anyone to have any kind of meaning,
Speaker 2: for anyone to be able to call themselves educated on
Speaker 2: political or historical affairs, like on the theoretical side, you know,
Speaker 2: they they have to be acquainted with these things. First
Speaker 2: and foremost, You've got to read Aristotle's politics. Not just
Speaker 2: all political philosophy in the Western world derives from Aristotle.
Speaker 2: That's inarguable. Okay, the relationship between Plato and Aristotle and
Speaker 2: the kind of tension they're in and to what degree,
Speaker 2: like Aristotle is a repudiation of Plato that's another question,
Speaker 2: and that deals mostly with metaphysics and things, Okay, And
Speaker 2: yet you can't extricate metaphysics from politics in some sort
Speaker 2: of discreet way. But the point is, like, that's not,
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm up on for purpose of purposes
Speaker 2: of of why I'm of of what I'm suggesting here,
Speaker 2: Like what I'm suggesting is that you know, if you're
Speaker 2: talking about if you're talking about the Western tradition of
Speaker 2: political philosophy, you're you're you're beginning with Aristotle, Okay. And
Speaker 2: even even even even those who aim to break with
Speaker 2: aimed to break with Aristotle to greater or lesser degree,
Speaker 2: like they were in dialogue with them and relying on
Speaker 2: the pre Socratics and things. Okay, So the politics and
Speaker 2: uh Nica machy and epics have got to be on
Speaker 2: your list. And in order to put those things in context,
Speaker 2: there are secondary sources. You know, Leo Strauss and a
Speaker 2: guy named Joseph Propsy. There's this book called The History
Speaker 2: of Political Philosophy, which is an outstanding book. And it's
Speaker 2: not it's not it's not full of like STREUSSI and
Speaker 2: bullshit or anything like that. It's like very much like
Speaker 2: a hard and fast. So that condensed version, I mean
Speaker 2: it's it's a hugely voluminous book, but it's got a
Speaker 2: section basically, Uh it becomes like Xeno is Zeno, like uh,
Speaker 2: Zeno and Heraclitis and ends with you know, Heidegger and
Speaker 2: a and I think, uh, I can't remember who the
Speaker 2: final entry is, but it goes it ends in the
Speaker 2: mid twentieth century. But uh, that's that that I guess
Speaker 2: there is like a great like secondary resource and you know,
Speaker 2: the if you want, if you want, but Aristotle, I
Speaker 2: think any any translation that's worth anything has got is
Speaker 2: you know, he's got a complete annotation such that you know,
Speaker 2: you should be able to you know, kind of get
Speaker 2: by with without you know, having to move mountains to
Speaker 2: you know, put things in context. By the way, secondary sources.
Speaker 2: If your modern political theory is the progenity of Hobbs,
Speaker 2: you've got to read Leviathan. Okay. I think a Leviathan.
Speaker 2: Leviathan is the political philosophy kind of like Moby Dick.
Speaker 2: It's a literature. It's like this daunting, voluminous, incredibly worthy
Speaker 2: toma okay, like, but it's there's nothing in it that's
Speaker 2: wasted or there's nothing in it. There's not there's nothing
Speaker 2: in it that's that's superfluous. There's Hobbs is uh. Hobbs
Speaker 2: is fascinating because on the one hand, you know, like
Speaker 2: I think of I think of I think Carl Schmid's
Speaker 2: relationship to Hobbes is being kind of like Marx's relationship
Speaker 2: to Hegel. You know, Schmidt very much repudiated hobbs ontology
Speaker 2: and kind of is uh, you know, kind of kind
Speaker 2: of what he positive about man and like anthropological terms,
Speaker 2: but Hobbs' description of authority in man's relationship to authority
Speaker 2: and uh, the essentially theological characteristics they're in were and
Speaker 2: are tremendously insightful, and the uh for better even if
Speaker 2: we're that not true. You know, again, every everything subsequent
Speaker 2: in uh, you know, the Enlightenment tradition, if you accept
Speaker 2: that sort of conceptual timeline, and you know, even things
Speaker 2: that repudiated the kind of modernist perspective and and and
Speaker 2: you know, on on the political side of things, I
Speaker 2: mean like derives from Hobbes as well. So I'd say
Speaker 2: that I'd say that, uh, Levia then should probably be
Speaker 2: number two. I Uh, Machiavelli is the Prince. If you
Speaker 2: take like, at least traditionally, if you went to a
Speaker 2: liberal arts college and you took like political theory, that's
Speaker 2: one of the first books they to sign you. It's
Speaker 2: not that there's such great insight in it. I think it,
Speaker 2: you know, I think it captures it just sort of
Speaker 2: a snapshot of the European political mind. But it did
Speaker 2: represent that kind of It was the first book of
Speaker 2: its kind that was widely circulated among literate classes. Okay,
Speaker 2: And obviously, like my list is going to be like
Speaker 2: heavy on political theory, such that some people might object,
Speaker 2: like you know, going to their own sort of conceptual prejudices.
Speaker 2: Number four, I'd say probably, uh, Hegel, a study of history.
Speaker 2: If Hegel is kind of like Marks nobody, I mean,
Speaker 2: aside from the fact that there's there's a kind of
Speaker 2: there's a perverse feared of in literal like association between
Speaker 2: the two thinkers. But Hegel's is cited constant lead, but
Speaker 2: almost nobody actually reads Hegel. Reading Hegel kind of like
Speaker 2: reading your Ristotle is is I think a lifelong endeavor,
Speaker 2: you know, and you you'll return to the same texts
Speaker 2: again and again for clarity and because uh, as one's
Speaker 2: own sort of understanding comes into high relief. Proverbially speaking,
Speaker 2: you know, you'll you'll, you'll come to understand more and more,
Speaker 2: you know, what is under discussion and what's a fundamental
Speaker 2: concern and he Gaelian thought. But if you're any if
Speaker 2: you're any kind of if you're any kind of political theorist,
Speaker 2: you know, Hegel is a kind of like your metaphor
Speaker 2: your starting point for like metaphysics, as metaphysics is such
Speaker 2: that it it dovetai inextricably with the political you know,
Speaker 2: and there's more than a kind of narrow overlap there.
Speaker 2: My uh I uh, I don't know. You I'd say
Speaker 2: I'd say, for five or six you should read the
Speaker 2: Federalist papers. Not because there's like incredible wisdom there, Like
Speaker 2: there's really not an other than Hamilton and j Like
Speaker 2: I don't get a lot out of the Federalist papers
Speaker 2: and stubs in in terms, but if you want to
Speaker 2: understand kind of like the confused like pastiche of what supposedly,
Speaker 2: you know, was the underlying rationale for the American Revolution
Speaker 2: was really wasn't a revolution in any any meaningful sense.
Speaker 2: You know, it's I it got branded as such on
Speaker 2: one of these kinds of romantic instincts of people like
Speaker 2: uh Jefferson, who uh, you know, had had kind of
Speaker 2: an absurd and distasteful reverence for Jacobinism. But if you
Speaker 2: want to understand, even to this day, although it's like
Speaker 2: faded because you know, there's not there's not any like
Speaker 2: substant discourse in America about anything of of of real importance,
Speaker 2: but you do you do still see, at least in
Speaker 2: the federal courts occasionally you do still see like reasoning
Speaker 2: directly lifted from the Federalist papers. You know. The degree
Speaker 2: to which is you know, the degree to which that's
Speaker 2: cosmetic versus substantive, I mean, is arguable, but I think
Speaker 2: at least a once over and even this this goes
Speaker 2: from people who are like you know, in Europe as
Speaker 2: well too, because obviously this this the occupation regime that
Speaker 2: they're unfortunately availed to is uh is the American regime.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd say that, and you can find I mean,
Speaker 2: you could probably downloak like a PDA for the Federal's papers,
Speaker 2: like after like a two minute freaking Google search. You know,
Speaker 2: I'd getting into the more esoteric I'd say, uh, Mercia
Speaker 2: Eliotti The Sacred and the Profane. I I think it's
Speaker 2: a very important book. It's I I really, I really
Speaker 2: get a lot of the stuff like Rene Gillon too,
Speaker 2: but I that's that's I wouldn't I wouldn't say that
Speaker 2: that's essential uh reading for most people unless they're deeply
Speaker 2: intrigued by comparative theology as well as you know, what
Speaker 2: I think of is kind of deep politics, you know,
Speaker 2: the kind of the kind of conjunction of a of
Speaker 2: anthropological and cultural phenomenon with the political. But the segment
Speaker 2: in the Profane it very much bears on the twentieth century,
Speaker 2: and uh, I think, uh it's a it's a splendid
Speaker 2: rebuttal to this kind of preference for for secularism that
Speaker 2: you find among a that you find among the postmodern right.
Speaker 2: At least that's one of the reasons I initially gravitated
Speaker 2: towards Mercia Eliotti. He's written a bunch of other He
Speaker 2: wrote a bunch of other stuff too, Like he wrote
Speaker 2: a book called Shamanism that was great. He wrote a
Speaker 2: book on called the Myth of Eternal Recurrence, which is
Speaker 2: great but not But again, those kinds of things were
Speaker 2: only obliquely related to the topic of hand i'd uh,
Speaker 2: Carl SCHMIDTZ, No, Most of the Earth is essential reading
Speaker 2: if you want to understand the world system post Westphailure.
Speaker 2: The book I'm writing now about international jurisprudence since World
Speaker 2: War Two, I consider it I intended to be a
Speaker 2: compliment piece or a successor to know Most of the Earth.
Speaker 2: It's an arguable that the world system is is fundamentally
Speaker 2: uh grounded in in juristic reasoning. And that's why the
Speaker 2: sea of sovereignty invests in the judiciary now and not
Speaker 2: not in any not not in the executive branch of government.
Speaker 2: And it's it's that way like on a planetary scale, Okay,
Speaker 2: I mean there's the every every government on this planet
Speaker 2: is structured basically the same, you know, Like that's one
Speaker 2: of the reasons, as we talked about its ridiculous people
Speaker 2: talk about democracy versus not democracy, as if this is
Speaker 2: still the Cold War. And yeah, obviously there's systems where
Speaker 2: you know, the executive branch wields more power than others
Speaker 2: actually or or or symbolically. But the rationale of of
Speaker 2: of government activity in war and peace terms is is
Speaker 2: inextricably it derives from juristic reasoning, and that's that's inescapable
Speaker 2: and for no other reason, that's why one should read
Speaker 2: numblest of the Earth. It's voluminous, it's about five or
Speaker 2: six hundred pages, but it's I mean, it's a dense read,
Speaker 2: but it's actually highly readable, and it's better than any
Speaker 2: It puts post war political order in context better than
Speaker 2: any other kind of single value a lot of people.
Speaker 2: What pops up again and again, like the Karl Schmidt
Speaker 2: text that pops up on most people's lists is the
Speaker 2: concept of the political and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2: That's actually I believe the concept political was a lecture
Speaker 2: like a two or three lecture series that was transcribed
Speaker 2: and uh, it's it's not I mean, it's yeah, it's important, okay,
Speaker 2: because that's like the political, that's the ontology that underlies
Speaker 2: like the Schmidtian perspective. But it's not. It's a very
Speaker 2: it's a very incomplete understanding. If you're just gonna read
Speaker 2: like one one Karl Schmidt text and I, like I said,
Speaker 2: I think is plus know most of the Earth was
Speaker 2: is like post war kind of like magnum opus. You know,
Speaker 2: it puts it puts the experience the first d half
Speaker 2: of the twentieth century in perspective it and as a
Speaker 2: as a follow up to that or as a compliment
Speaker 2: to that, I I'd suggest anybody who insists in themselves
Speaker 2: right wing read Imperium by Francis Yaqui. I don't consider
Speaker 2: Imperium to be as esoteric as some people do. Maybe
Speaker 2: that's because of my background in terms of what I
Speaker 2: always kind of gravitated too instinctively as regards like theoretical
Speaker 2: texts and things like that. But for those that aren't
Speaker 2: as familiar with sort of the source material that Yacky's
Speaker 2: relying on, there's a book called Profit of Decline by
Speaker 2: a guy named John Ferrenkopf. He's an independent scholar who
Speaker 2: for a long time was based here in Chicago. This book,
Speaker 2: Profited Decline is both like an intellectual biography of Oswald
Speaker 2: Spangler as well as kind of kind of a like
Speaker 2: an abridged explanation of of his whole body at work
Speaker 2: and core concepts. You know, I it's uh, that's frankly,
Speaker 2: it's not in the cards. I think for a lot
Speaker 2: of people to read, uh, the two volumes or three
Speaker 2: volumes of the Decline of the West in its original form,
Speaker 2: and then you know kind of kind of pour over
Speaker 2: that and imperium like some kind of scholastic and then
Speaker 2: try and decipher you know, the context. I'd uh, i'd
Speaker 2: I'd say George Sorell is ah essential reading. I can't
Speaker 2: remember if we're on number six, number seven, Sorel's Reflections
Speaker 2: on Violence. I think pretty much everything Cerell wrote is
Speaker 2: worth reading, but Reflections Reflections on Violence is uh is
Speaker 2: highly significant to the twenty revolutionary paradigm as and as
Speaker 2: well as uh, there's if there's some additions that have
Speaker 2: kind of a there's this essay on Sorell. Uh wrote
Speaker 2: a great essay on why and why Socrates desire to
Speaker 2: be executed? And uh, that's a peculiar significance to the
Speaker 2: radic will write like it, like it all in all times.
Speaker 2: And it also it distinguishes the partisan from the radical.
Speaker 2: And you know that's there's there's all kinds of like
Speaker 2: remarkable stuff. There some people who I think probably haven't
Speaker 2: actually read Cerel or they or they've read write in
Speaker 2: but don't fully understand the context like they seem they
Speaker 2: seem to like look at Cerell as some like heterodox socialists.
Speaker 2: Or I mean, and he was that too, but that's
Speaker 2: not really the key takeaway. He's not just Werner Sombart
Speaker 2: but with uh, but but with a kind of anthropological
Speaker 2: streak interspersed there in he's one of the he's one
Speaker 2: of the most I say, I put him in a
Speaker 2: part with with with Lenin in terms of his understanding
Speaker 2: of a practice in uh, within a revolutionary paradigm. I'd
Speaker 2: uh this is probably gonna strike some people as peculiar,
Speaker 2: but i'd uh i'd include Men among the Ruins. But
Speaker 2: Julius Evil, Uh, that's a remarkable book, and I think
Speaker 2: a lot of Evel's other stuff. It's probably not a
Speaker 2: waste of time to read it, but it's totally different
Speaker 2: than Men among the Ruins, and specifically the addition that
Speaker 2: was put out by Inner Traditions Publishing House, which is
Speaker 2: Michael moynihan's outfit, or it was because that one contains
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that was later redacted by from
Speaker 2: whatever reason, by like various publishers. But Men among the Ruins,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's lacking in evil is uh kind
Speaker 2: of like symbolic his musings that symbolic psychology and metaphysics
Speaker 2: and things and oh of that. It's very much diagnostic
Speaker 2: in character. And uh, it's about the best description of
Speaker 2: the European political situation in the later Cold War that
Speaker 2: have come across and it uh, it's it's very very
Speaker 2: accessible so long as somebody has a rudimentary understanding of
Speaker 2: of the Great War in World War Two. It's a
Speaker 2: remarkable book. I'd uh. The King James version of the
Speaker 2: Bible is essential reading, even if you're not a Protestant,
Speaker 2: even if you're not religious. It's a arguably the most
Speaker 2: significant text written in the English language, and if you
Speaker 2: want to do like the Anglophone kind of inner world. Conceptually,
Speaker 2: it derives from uh, it derives from Aristotle, it derives
Speaker 2: from stuff like our theory in a legend, and it
Speaker 2: derives from the King James Bible, which is kind of
Speaker 2: a which which is kind of a conceptual reality into itself.
Speaker 2: I can't explain it anything better than that. And it's
Speaker 2: it's very different than every other translation, which uh, you know,
Speaker 2: people people argue about the soundness of it theologically, that's
Speaker 2: not important. I mean it is important, okay, but like
Speaker 2: for purposes, I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's warrants a uh a, a secular reading if
Speaker 2: you're a if you're a white Westerner and in an
Speaker 2: anglophone culture. And finally, because uh, people constantly ask me
Speaker 2: for like some seminal revisionist Third Reich book if you're
Speaker 2: only gonna read one like revisionist history book and the
Speaker 2: Third Reich. John Toland's biography of Adolf Hitler is essential
Speaker 2: reading tooland was the was the Hitler biographer, okay. David
Speaker 2: Irving is is like the scribe of the Third Reich.
Speaker 2: But if Hitler himself, it's John Toland, okay, and his
Speaker 2: biography is just that it's the life of Adolf Hitler,
Speaker 2: and Tootland is the only story you know Hitler's family
Speaker 2: was willing to speak to. Like It's fate kind of
Speaker 2: conspired to assign Toll into that role, as is often
Speaker 2: the case with historical writers. As I age, I realize
Speaker 2: more and more that that's true, and it's not some
Speaker 2: sort of self uh created mythology that you know, historical
Speaker 2: authors have have kind of crafted about their their endeavors.
Speaker 2: Off the top of my head, that's some That's about
Speaker 2: the best list I can come I can come up with.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask what about fiction.
Speaker 2: Frank Herbert's Dune is uh is essential, and you've got
Speaker 2: to read Dune as uh like a complete like body
Speaker 2: of work because uh, it's i mean science fiction is
Speaker 2: a is a medium for political theory at base, I mean,
Speaker 2: as as well as other things. That's one of the
Speaker 2: reasons that spend so much time with it, like reading it.
Speaker 2: And that's why you know, a lot of very a
Speaker 2: lot of very strong people, you know that's a very
Speaker 2: strong intellect of like have taken it seriously. And Herbert's
Speaker 2: a perfect example of that. It's it's it's it's a
Speaker 2: great it's outstanding philosophical discussion of you know, historical time.
Speaker 2: I'd say, uh that that that's that's the top, that's
Speaker 2: at the top of my list. Like read the Dune
Speaker 2: books and read them in order. The book Dead City
Speaker 2: by Shane Stevens, that's uh, that's the best. Uh, that's
Speaker 2: the best gangster like book ever written. Like it's a
Speaker 2: it's a rough book, it's very brutal, but that's that's
Speaker 2: that's what the street was like in uh the early seventies.
Speaker 2: And Shane Stevens was a guy who you can tell
Speaker 2: from his he's of his writing that this was like
Speaker 2: stuff that he witnessed and these are like people that
Speaker 2: he knew, you know, like it's some it's it's like
Speaker 2: like I mentioned to people that, uh, the best gangster
Speaker 2: movies of all time, my opinion, are Carlito's Way and
Speaker 2: mean streets and dead cities like in that vein, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's a it's kind of like the
Speaker 2: anti Hollywood gangster novel. It's somewhat hard to find these days.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of overpriced paperbacks, but I can probably
Speaker 2: I can probably find a PDF or like a really
Speaker 2: priced paperback if if if people hit me up because
Speaker 2: they can't because they can't find it, i'd uh Wuthering
Speaker 2: Heights definitely belongs on that list I mentioned before. Like
Speaker 2: people probably think that sounds like fruity or something, and
Speaker 2: I mean whatever, like I don't, I don't, I don't
Speaker 2: care if people think that that's that's the best uh
Speaker 2: literary treatment of the tragedy and character of romantic love
Speaker 2: in uh the English language. And and there's something uh
Speaker 2: it deals it deals with with like what properly is
Speaker 2: like supernatural. I don't mean like ghosts and goblins and stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, the you know, there is uh there, there
Speaker 2: is there, there is something mysterious about arrows. And I
Speaker 2: think it's the best. Uh. I think it's the best
Speaker 2: best treatment of that. There's go ahead.
Speaker 1: There's a book that I've heard We've never even talked
Speaker 1: about it, but there's a book I've heard you mentioned
Speaker 1: on other other shows on your own of Human Bondage.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's definitely on my list too, by
Speaker 2: Somerset Mom. Yeah, that's a fantastic book, man, And it's
Speaker 2: it's uh, it's uh that that definitely is something every
Speaker 2: every every every young person especially should read. I'd also uh.
Speaker 2: I also there's a book called Armor by John Stakley,
Speaker 2: which is sort of a it's sort of like a
Speaker 2: spiritual counterparts to Starship Troopers. But I think it's I
Speaker 2: think it's a lot better. Frankly, like Highland wrote some
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff and uh, but he was kind of like
Speaker 2: a pure he Uh he got very strange later in life,
Speaker 2: Highlight did. And I mean that's fine. Like some of
Speaker 2: his some of us weirder, wilder ship like the Number
Speaker 2: of the Beast. I actually got a kick out of
Speaker 2: but his Starship Troopers is uh is very much UH
Speaker 2: as very much military science like harden Man's military science,
Speaker 2: and like a fanciful setting to you know, facilitate, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like discussion they're in armor is very is
Speaker 2: very much is a much more complete book, I think
Speaker 2: on a on a similar subject, you know, and and
Speaker 2: kind of like the the dehumanizing aspects of uh of
Speaker 2: a you know of of hyper advanced warfare. But i uh,
Speaker 2: for for reference, the uh stigly died uh rather young.
Speaker 2: His only other novel was A Vampires, which is what
Speaker 2: carbon John Carverenter based his movie Vampires on, which is
Speaker 2: not a terrible adaptation with the book is way better
Speaker 2: and uh basically in the novel, like vampires are a
Speaker 2: real thing, but they're like vampism is like a is
Speaker 2: like as like a disease organism. And these these guys
Speaker 2: who are basically like Blackwater. They get retained by the Vatican.
Speaker 2: They kill vampires when it's infestations are discovered, which is
Speaker 2: obviously like a very kind of tough and disgusting job,
Speaker 2: and like that's it's basically like about like just kind
Speaker 2: of these guys' lives for like these PMCs de Stroy Empires.
Speaker 2: It's really fucking cool and they get into some of
Speaker 2: that like in the in the film, but it's it's
Speaker 2: uh but that and uh though that Had and Armor
Speaker 2: were like Stak's only two novels.
Speaker 1: I mean, he he was.
Speaker 2: He's very much like a cult kind of novelist in
Speaker 2: part because he lived. I think he was only like
Speaker 2: thirty eight when he died. There were there would have
Speaker 2: been like very very good stuff emergent from his creative mind.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Carpenter's Vampires is pretty decent, but I
Speaker 1: mean we got off on vampire movies. Now, what'd you
Speaker 1: think in Near Dark?
Speaker 2: They're Dark's great and it's like, uh, let's like I
Speaker 2: was telling people, like there's a there's uh like like
Speaker 2: like like fags like the Lost Boys, like real motherfuckers
Speaker 2: like Near Dark just like just like fucking Menace to
Speaker 2: Society is like real ship and Boys in the Hood
Speaker 2: is like modeling like pathetic ship and like real people
Speaker 2: like Ropper Stomper and like fucking and fucking uh you know,
Speaker 2: lames are into like americanustry X. It's like that kind
Speaker 2: of deal. Like I actually think the uh Theklau the
Speaker 2: klaus Kinski version of nos Feratu, which was released in
Speaker 2: seventy nine. I mean Ernard hertsaw I directed it, but
Speaker 2: klaus Kinski plays count Orlock, which is appropriate because laus
Speaker 2: Kinski probably is like a vampire. But like, uh, that's
Speaker 2: probably my favorite vampire movie. And speaking of John Carboner,
Speaker 2: the John Carbenter TV movie of Salem's Lots is actually
Speaker 2: pretty dope. And when I was a little kid, like
Speaker 2: a little little kid, they'd always show it on TV,
Speaker 2: and I found it really scary, and then like, uh,
Speaker 2: as an adult, like it's it actually holds up. It's
Speaker 2: it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about this one because I know you, like,
Speaker 1: I know you like the lead actor in it. So
Speaker 1: what do you think of The Hunger.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's pretty dope, man, And it's uh, the
Speaker 2: Hunger is interesting, not just because uh, not just because
Speaker 2: of like the David Bowie connection, but it's I think, uh,
Speaker 2: I think Whitley Streiver wrote it, and he was very
Speaker 2: weird man, you know. He he wrote some interesting stuff
Speaker 2: in the eighties. He wrote The Wolf in He wrote
Speaker 2: this book war Day, which is exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: It was like it. You know, it was kind of
Speaker 2: like his take on you know, a general nuclear war.
Speaker 2: I mean he mostly focused on like the sociological and
Speaker 2: cultural aspects, you know, like the human side, but striver
Speaker 2: he began insisting that he was having contacts with alien beings,
Speaker 2: you know, and then like communion. You know that he
Speaker 2: wrote that book that they made into a movie Fits
Speaker 2: for Walking. He really like went off the rails. But
Speaker 2: I believe he wrote the book that the Hunger that
Speaker 2: they have to do the Hunger very much. It's where
Speaker 2: the aesthetic of it is like Super nineteen eighty one
Speaker 2: and like that, just like the very very early nineties
Speaker 2: were kind of like neither the eighties nor like the
Speaker 2: proper nineties, like the very very early eighties or kind
Speaker 2: of a weird time. You know. It was like uh,
Speaker 2: it was it was like not quite post punk, not
Speaker 2: quite new wave like styles were weird, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean Bauhaus opens up, the opens up the.
Speaker 2: Yeah right right right, yeah, yeah, And that's that's the
Speaker 2: kind of movie that like never be made today. Let
Speaker 2: Alone by, Let Alone by, you know, let alone by
Speaker 2: like a major studio or whatever, you know, Like it
Speaker 2: like a movie like that were made it would be
Speaker 2: like a guy like Ryan Gosling would like just like
Speaker 2: throw money at it to like it's like a you know,
Speaker 2: something he wanted to make, and it would it be
Speaker 2: like a very limited release. Like that's another yeah, and
Speaker 2: that's that's another thing. The reason that Epoch was cool
Speaker 2: is because you'd see just like random stuff like that, like.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was Uh, there was like this
Speaker 1: underlying judgment of like upper West Side wasps, Upper East
Speaker 1: Side WASPS.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was part of it. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that was part of it definitely, And that's why
Speaker 2: it's always any It was a weird like post Ford
Speaker 2: administration New York City like that setting. There's there was
Speaker 2: a lot of Yeah, there was a lot of there's
Speaker 2: like cast dynamics that were present there that were not
Speaker 2: in like Chicago. We're in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's some like like the East Coast
Speaker 2: is different. Man, it it just is you know, like
Speaker 2: I but it's I like to rewatch it. I haven't
Speaker 2: seen it, I think, and since I was since I
Speaker 2: was in college. It's but the also the the reason
Speaker 2: I like Near Dark so much, what it is going
Speaker 2: forward is uh, it's like obvious, like like it's very
Speaker 2: on those metaphor for like being an addicts and like
Speaker 2: near Dark. They never even say what the vampires are.
Speaker 2: It just becomes obvious, like that's what they are. But
Speaker 2: they're like these but they're like these they're like these
Speaker 2: outlaw like grimy white people. They're like these pecker would
Speaker 2: you like live like addicts? You know?
Speaker 1: And there's also a lot of passing jokes in it,
Speaker 1: like I remember when they when they set fire to
Speaker 1: that one place and they're they're leaving and Bill Paston goes,
Speaker 1: remember that fire we set in Chicago?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well it's also too like when when
Speaker 2: the girl first turns the kid play by Adrian Pashtar,
Speaker 2: like when he starts getting sick, he's like getting dope sick,
Speaker 2: and that's like the nark in the bathroom's like, look, man,
Speaker 2: I know what's I know what, I know what, I
Speaker 2: know what's going on here? Like you know, get get
Speaker 2: your ship together, don't let me see her again. He's
Speaker 2: like he's like obviously coming down on him because he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're a junkie. And it's like even if they don't
Speaker 2: like they you know, the empires don't get what they need,
Speaker 2: they get dope sick and like it's and he uh
Speaker 2: like at first, uh, at first the kid finds like
Speaker 2: the entire process discussed thing. But they're just like look
Speaker 2: like you'll you like get used to it. You know,
Speaker 2: you you end up being able to do things you know,
Speaker 2: startself capable of. Like that's that's very much because like
Speaker 2: being a vampire actually is disgusting and it sucks, you know,
Speaker 2: like that and that's like it's and that you know.
Speaker 2: That's why I uh, I've always found that to be
Speaker 2: an apparable metaphor. And like if you're an addict, you
Speaker 2: truly like do like live at night, you know, and like, uh,
Speaker 2: you're you're almost like afraid of daytime, not just because
Speaker 2: you know, because like you know, you'll be sick in
Speaker 2: the morning and like that's when the police are around,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, when you've got to you know,
Speaker 2: you've got to like be aware of people finding out
Speaker 2: what you are and coming down on you and ships
Speaker 2: like that. And that's why I, I mean, I've always
Speaker 2: like near Dark. I like it even before understood that
Speaker 2: implication and the Catherine Bigelow who was and she's a
Speaker 2: real fucking dying piece back in the day, but she
Speaker 2: she's an interesting filmmaker man, and she's uh, she's a
Speaker 2: rare uh like female female uh directors who have really
Speaker 2: good directing shops, Like they're rare. I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: like a fact. I'm not saying that's like come down
Speaker 2: in females or something, but they but those that do
Speaker 2: are good at their prey after, like, very very good
Speaker 2: at it, like Lenny Riefenstall comes to ninth too obviously.
Speaker 1: But did you ever think thatse you mentioned klaus Kinsky
Speaker 1: and it reminded me of of Natasha. Do you ever
Speaker 1: think Cat People was like some weird kind of supposedly
Speaker 1: supposed to be a I don't.
Speaker 2: Like Kid People, and like I people have challenged me
Speaker 2: on that because I like Paul Strader so much. I
Speaker 2: I don't know what he was going for with that.
Speaker 2: The original Kid People was this kind of it was
Speaker 2: this kind of camp horror movie from you know, the
Speaker 2: nineteen forties. Paul Schrader's version it's kind of like it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a shaggy Dog story. It doesn't really
Speaker 2: go anywhere, and you know, it's it's kind of the consummate. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's kind of the consummate example of style over substance.
Speaker 2: But I mean Trader kind of lost his way for
Speaker 2: a minute, Like I think, I think American Jigglo is
Speaker 2: like a shitty movie, you know, like I know, and
Speaker 2: that's one of the ones that kind of put him
Speaker 2: on the map with like mainstream movie goers. You know
Speaker 2: that that's and that's the movie also like made like
Speaker 2: Richard Gear but like I I uh but I mean
Speaker 2: I I I like his I like hardcore, I like
Speaker 2: the Yakuza. Like those are like my favorite Paul Schrader movies.
Speaker 2: And I think, uh and then later in life, uh
Speaker 2: like Auto Focus, you know, which is the Bob Crane topic,
Speaker 2: which is really kind of disturbing. Like that's a great film.
Speaker 1: It's a great film, but it is very disturbing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Defoe is really creepy in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's the uh well it's also it's a
Speaker 2: but it's like even one of the reasons I like
Speaker 2: Auto Focus and stuff, it's because like the like the
Speaker 2: optics of it are really good and like in can't people,
Speaker 2: it's like the optics are just like shitty. It like
Speaker 2: looks like something it looks like in nineteen eighties, like
Speaker 2: like car commercial or something like. I know it's I've
Speaker 2: tried to watch it again during the I think during
Speaker 2: like last year doing frodies like film Festival, I think
Speaker 2: somebody watched Kid People. It was on my mind, what
Speaker 2: I'm getting. I can't remember if somebody reviewed it like
Speaker 2: in our circles a year or two ago, and so
Speaker 2: it was I got on my mind again and I
Speaker 2: think ace I asked me if I liked it or not,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, I thought it sucked, but I'll
Speaker 2: try watching it again, you know. And then I tried it.
Speaker 2: I gave another chance. I'm just like, I don't this
Speaker 2: is just this is just a shitty movie, man.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was like it wanted to be either a vampire
Speaker 1: movie or a werewolf movie, and it was it couldn't
Speaker 1: make up its mind what it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it didn't go anywhere, you know. Like that's
Speaker 2: like I said, like it wasn't And I speculate I
Speaker 2: speculate the narrative problems were because it was one of
Speaker 2: those scripts that got like endlessly like slashed and burned
Speaker 2: and like edited just kind of into oblivion. And then
Speaker 2: like with the final product was like didn't really make
Speaker 2: any sense. I mean that might not have been Trader's fault,
Speaker 2: but again, what kind of what kind of grabbed me
Speaker 2: about is that it's just not it's just like not
Speaker 2: optically like a good movie.
Speaker 1: I got one more, I got one more movie for you,
Speaker 1: and we'll get out of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Robert Harmon nineteen eighty six, The Hitcher.
Speaker 2: See that film starts out really strong, and it's like, uh,
Speaker 2: Rutger Howard is like so weird that like he he's
Speaker 2: just speaking of like klaus Kinski's kind of like it's
Speaker 2: sort of like uh, spiritual counterpart or something. But it's
Speaker 2: the suspense kind of gets blown like halfway through the movie,
Speaker 2: like when it like because because the kid finally is
Speaker 2: able to convince like the police that like this guy
Speaker 2: actually is after him, and like like the like the
Speaker 2: movie the first time of the movie is like dope
Speaker 2: because it's like it's like this like Hitchcock type nightmare,
Speaker 2: like the kid is he can't convince anybody this insanity's
Speaker 2: actually really happening. But then like it, but but then
Speaker 2: the movie kind of like shoots its load and and
Speaker 2: then it just becomes uh you know, like like almost
Speaker 2: like a slasher movie. And see Thomas Howells.
Speaker 1: In that, right, yeah, I think Jennifer Jason Lee too,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And that was see Thomas Howells got more range than
Speaker 2: say you go credit him with and uh I uh
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think I know that like among like
Speaker 2: midnight movie fans and stuff like back in the old
Speaker 2: days as well as today. Like it's it's kind of
Speaker 2: like beloved, but I I don't uh, I don't care
Speaker 2: for it was on tip of my tongue a minute
Speaker 2: ago with Catherine Bigelow is I believe she also directed
Speaker 2: The Loveless, you know, which was William Dafoe, And I was,
Speaker 2: that's like rockabilly like leather jackets stuff. So I think
Speaker 2: it's cool. But it's like it's done right, like it's
Speaker 2: uh and it's like it's kind of like the anti
Speaker 2: Streets of Fire, which which I hate. Uh. I'll never
Speaker 2: forget Walter Hill for making that piece of ship right.
Speaker 2: He like he's goofy and like the whole the whole,
Speaker 2: the whole movies is awful and cringe. But the Loveless, uh.
Speaker 1: He as did Eddie. He was the star Eddie and
Speaker 1: the Cruisers.
Speaker 2: Right, and then the Cruisers had this bizarre sequel to
Speaker 2: that like came out like ten years later.
Speaker 1: And in Canada. It was like based in Canada and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was bizarre too, because like it's uh, like
Speaker 2: the whole They're supposed to be this like nineteen sixties band,
Speaker 2: but they sound like a nineteen eighties band.
Speaker 1: It sounds like Spring. They sound like Spring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like these guys, like these these dudes and
Speaker 2: the mullets and like skinny ties, playing like Bruce Springsteen song.
Speaker 2: They're like from the sixties. And then like yeah, then
Speaker 2: like Eddie fakes his death for like twenty years, which
Speaker 2: is like lame as fuck, you know, and like because
Speaker 2: he's like trd of being famous, so we just like
Speaker 2: decides it's like it's like okay, motherfucker. Like the fact
Speaker 2: that that trope is so stupid too. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm sick of being rich and famous. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: like work as a Walmart because like it'll be awesome.
Speaker 2: Like uh, it's like, let's feel like a torture tortured artist. Yeah,
Speaker 2: unless you got like five star heat, like you don't
Speaker 2: fucking fake your own death, you know, Like that's that's
Speaker 2: fucking retarded.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you this because we mentioned Howard
Speaker 1: in The Hitcher, besides obviously leaving out Blade Runner. What's
Speaker 1: his best movie?
Speaker 2: That's a good question, I think, I uh, I don't
Speaker 2: think about that in a minute.
Speaker 1: My like, I guess guilty pleasure movie is The Nighthawks.
Speaker 2: The Nighthawks is actually a pretty good movie, man Like.
Speaker 2: I mean it's corny, but it's it's uh like like
Speaker 2: it's actually a pretty intelligent scripts and I think, uh,
Speaker 2: what's uh yeah, I don't think about it, man like,
Speaker 2: has been in a lot of weird stuff. Like then
Speaker 2: there's like this one like movie that Dave Story show
Speaker 2: on Cinemax where he's like this blind samurai. I mean
Speaker 2: that that movie is really fucking stupid, but it's just
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, and he how was that It's called
Speaker 2: Blind Fury. Yeah, and then yeah, I'd have to I'd
Speaker 2: have to think about I actually like a guilty pleasure
Speaker 2: of mine is Split Seconds, which seeking a movie is
Speaker 2: don't any sense? Like Rutger Howard, he's a he's like
Speaker 2: this mercenary, Like he's like this p MC type in
Speaker 2: London and in London the future it's like flooded and
Speaker 2: there's like this there's like this serial killer like alien
Speaker 2: that's like ripping people's hearts out, and it's not clear
Speaker 2: if it's like like the movie doesn't make any sense,
Speaker 2: but uh, it's got it's you know, it's got like that.
Speaker 2: Uh it's got like that Predator to kind of aesthetic
Speaker 2: where there's like just like tons of guns and just
Speaker 2: like insanity like my my rout Grower guilty Pledgers. Split second.
Speaker 1: Remember he did that movie Fatherland too.
Speaker 2: Fatherland's actually dope. Like obviously like the uh, the the
Speaker 2: Holocaust trope I is is kind of like the the
Speaker 2: plot device is laying. But but that film's optics are
Speaker 2: great and the uh administratively, the way like the Third
Speaker 2: Rights organizing makes perfect sense. And that's why I like,
Speaker 2: you know, he's he's a he's a creepo investigator, you know,
Speaker 2: criminal politics, but he's uh he's got algamite SS rank
Speaker 2: because like they're under the number of the s D
Speaker 2: and like I and like when they're on the I
Speaker 2: I find that very very cool man. Like, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: he came out when I was in high school or
Speaker 2: like just out of high school. I think it was
Speaker 2: released in ninety four on HBO, And like I'd read
Speaker 2: the book when it came out, and.
Speaker 1: He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker 2: Right, He's done a bunch of weird stuff, man, Like
Speaker 2: I said, it's the bloody heroes I saw in the theear.
Speaker 2: It's uh, it's got Vincent's and off Rio and and
Speaker 2: Hugh keys Burn And that's like that's like a nuclear war.
Speaker 2: These gladiers they go found of talent playing this game.
Speaker 2: That's like it's like pigskin football. But he's a dog
Speaker 2: skull and you can like you know, you like gore
Speaker 2: people with chains and stuff. Yeah. He he's uh, he's
Speaker 2: a guy who definitely was not afraid to take like
Speaker 2: take unusual scripts. Man.
Speaker 1: In the same year in ninety four that he that
Speaker 1: I think he did Fatherland. He did that movie with
Speaker 1: Iced Tea Surviving the Game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's that's when like they made up
Speaker 2: they made a million one movies that were based on
Speaker 2: like The Most Dangerous Game. There's like a Van Damn
Speaker 2: movie that is the exact same plot where uh where
Speaker 2: like these these these these guys like are hunting Van dam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, all right, let's get out of here. What
Speaker 1: do what do you got to plug? Oh?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 1: Uh great episode introductory episode for season two.
Speaker 2: No, thank you man. Yeah, Like I said, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: pleased my workflow is actually getting moving. And again I
Speaker 2: apologize man for shit being so I mean not just
Speaker 2: to you, to like all the fricking sobs and everybody
Speaker 2: watching this. This winner has been like hard on me man,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not trying to play murder. I'm saying that's
Speaker 2: why I like my workflow has been fubar. But you
Speaker 2: can always find the kind of like one to stop
Speaker 2: spot for my work product and my content is Thomas
Speaker 2: seven seven seven dot com is number seven h O
Speaker 2: A S seven seven seven dot com. You can find
Speaker 2: me on X capital R E A L underscore number
Speaker 2: seven h m A S seven seven seven and of
Speaker 2: course substicks where the pot is and where my longer
Speaker 2: form stuff is. And I'm gonna drop some I'm gonna
Speaker 2: drop uh some stuff on there this week. People will
Speaker 2: be intrigued by you. It's a real Thomas seven seven
Speaker 2: seven substanct dot com. I am gonna populate my YouTube
Speaker 2: channel with some video content. Well, like I said, man,
Speaker 2: I've been this this winner has like been fucking really hard,
Speaker 2: but I I am on the man. I'm gonna start
Speaker 2: shooting in earnest in the next couple of weeks video content.
Speaker 1: I mean awesome, man, Thank you very much. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to welcome everyone back to the Pekana Show. I'm
Speaker 1: here with Thomas and Arthur. Gentlemen, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2: I'm well, man, thanks for thanks for hosting us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm great, Pete, thanks having me on.
Speaker 1: Cool. So you guys went down to the d n C.
Speaker 1: I saw you posted a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: video from it and uh, pictures and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and you'll live to tell the tale. So who wants
Speaker 1: to start a out? You know what they what they noticed?
Speaker 1: What what you got out of it? And I sound
Speaker 1: like like you went to to camp or something like that.
Speaker 1: You know what you what you guys get out of it?
Speaker 1: Was it a good experience for the both of you?
Speaker 1: But yeah, either one of you just start talking.
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of a clown. Every day is kind
Speaker 2: of like the fucking circus of my life, man, Like
Speaker 2: you know, like the I'm I'm probly okay with it.
Speaker 2: The big thing I noticed and uh, I'm gonna give
Speaker 2: you over to time in a minute. I won't talk long.
Speaker 2: I mean the point of people that, uh there was
Speaker 2: basically like no presence of hair supporters on the ground,
Speaker 2: and people who are obviously like Harris Shills started like
Speaker 2: mobbing some of my platforms, like oh well at a convention,
Speaker 2: that's not what happens. I'm like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no no. Like in Chicago, which unfortunately is like
Speaker 2: ground zero for for for like DNC support, it just
Speaker 2: is okay, you get bodies in the street when something
Speaker 2: like this happens. And like missus Clinton, who was like
Speaker 2: a dud of a candidate, including here, Like I mean
Speaker 2: she had like a fucking presence on the ground, okay, Like, uh,
Speaker 2: that's so like when the DNC is literally being held here,
Speaker 2: Like people telling me like, oh that doesn't mean anything
Speaker 2: that missus Harris's people run on the ground. That's fucking retarded. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's not how it works. And secondly, it's like everybody
Speaker 2: else was there. You had these like goofy like commedies,
Speaker 2: like guys who actually claim to be communists. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's something that goes on here. You had a bunch
Speaker 2: of like Zionists, like like Jew counter protesters there. You know,
Speaker 2: you had uh, you had these kind of crazy like
Speaker 2: social justice types who weren't really I mean they seem
Speaker 2: kind of like this kind of stuff they were saying
Speaker 2: and like the kind of lit they were handing out,
Speaker 2: like it didn't really make any sense. It was like,
Speaker 2: you know, we're like LGBTQ people who like opposed is
Speaker 2: really genocide. I'm like, man, I'm like Palestinians hate you
Speaker 2: fucking people, you know, like they It's like you're not.
Speaker 2: It's like if you you know, it's like I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna like tell you not to if you want to,
Speaker 2: like if you want to be down on Israel and
Speaker 2: critique the sort of structure that sustains it, but it's
Speaker 2: like you don't. It's like they thing that like Palestine
Speaker 2: is like full of like black people and these rails
Speaker 2: are like mean cops or something. It's they don't really understand.
Speaker 2: But as Tom will tell you, and like if they
Speaker 2: were here, like the other guys and girls who were
Speaker 2: with us, I saw all of like two hair supporters,
Speaker 2: Like one time I was walking to McDonald's cause they
Speaker 2: needed like across the streets Union Park I needed to
Speaker 2: take a week and I needed a bottle of water.
Speaker 2: I got to be crude, but that's what it was.
Speaker 2: There was like this obviously like lesbian couple, and they
Speaker 2: tried to hand me like a Harris flyer and I'm like, nah,
Speaker 2: I'm good. And then, uh, when we were coming out
Speaker 2: of the Billy Go Tevern where we went to kind
Speaker 2: of cool off adjacent Union Park, this like black lady
Speaker 2: who looked all like really down and out and like
Speaker 2: a wheelchair, she just like handed us like a flyer.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even look at it until like a
Speaker 2: minute later. It was like, my hair is fucking That
Speaker 2: was literally the only presence like Harris's people out on
Speaker 2: the ground. I'm not I'm not making that up. If
Speaker 2: they were like mob deep, I would say that, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what's Han talk and give his kind of impressions.
Speaker 2: He's the one who's talking that video and footage.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, you know I went down because uh,
Speaker 3: well obviously I believe I could say I'm a nationalist,
Speaker 3: you know, far writer. I've been a fan of Thomas
Speaker 3: for a while and and every time he posted a
Speaker 3: meet up, I think for the past year or so,
Speaker 3: I've been to it, and he posted one to go
Speaker 3: to the d n C. I was like, that sounds interesting.
Speaker 3: So I traveled out there, and I had some uh
Speaker 3: I had bought. Coincidentally, I had bought some extra filmmaking equipment,
Speaker 3: you know, like a tripod, like a selfie stick that
Speaker 3: acts as a sort of like steady cam, a microphone,
Speaker 3: and a few other things, and I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: while I'm down there, I can help you take footage
Speaker 3: and pictures and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, you know, prior to going, i'd remembered in detail
Speaker 3: the riots that had proceeded from twenty fourteen onwards. Really,
Speaker 3: but you know, I remember Portland and the Battle of
Speaker 3: Berkeley and all those other things, the actual riots. I'm
Speaker 3: from around New York City. I remember the riots down there,
Speaker 3: and I was really prepared for action. It's like, even
Speaker 3: if there aren't that many Democrats and Harror supporters out there,
Speaker 3: I'm sure the Soros and Tifa types will be out.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there'll be people who are just there to
Speaker 3: you know, watch the world burn essentially. So it was
Speaker 3: prepped for action. But as I got down there there,
Speaker 3: there really wasn't much going on there. Are people there.
Speaker 3: As Thomas said, there's a big march. The first day
Speaker 3: we were there and we watched the march past. I
Speaker 3: think they had marched from the Union Center, but as
Speaker 3: soon as they got into the park they started doing
Speaker 3: all these speeches on the Philippines and you know, queer
Speaker 3: rights and all these other things that just didn't make
Speaker 3: any sense. There were tons of different groups there. Everybody's
Speaker 3: message muddled. And one of the guys we were with,
Speaker 3: friend of ours, him and I if she walked around
Speaker 3: the Union Center. We were just looking for this place
Speaker 3: to meet up with a few people, and that place
Speaker 3: was locked down. That they were like concrete jersey barriers
Speaker 3: their fences. There were all these I took. I took
Speaker 3: a quite funny picture that said d n C enter here,
Speaker 3: and then right next to it it says do not enter.
Speaker 3: But even all the DNC participants we passed, I threw
Speaker 3: up the hanging loose signed to everybody that passed, just
Speaker 3: to see what they do. I think I got like
Speaker 3: two returns. One of our friend tried to high five
Speaker 3: a bunch of them. I think he got like one
Speaker 3: high five back. Even when you were kind of screwing around,
Speaker 3: just you know, saying kind of wacky stuff just to
Speaker 3: get a response, and everybody there wasn't even any anger.
Speaker 3: There was nothing. They just kind of it was just like.
Speaker 2: Joyless apathy, man, like it like the uh, you know,
Speaker 2: everybody's everybody asks again Tifa is like or like these
Speaker 2: bad dudes or like they were it's like nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 2: like when you had you know, when they were drawing
Speaker 2: like gang bangers and stuff to like beef up their
Speaker 2: their depth and stuff, and we're like stomping people out
Speaker 2: at shows like it. These guys are complete fucking pussies, man,
Speaker 2: and it's like totally fake and like none of that,
Speaker 2: none of them even fucking showed up. I didn't see
Speaker 2: one dude. Like people don't even talk shit to us
Speaker 2: when we were like flying like swastikas and shit, like
Speaker 2: it's you know, like there was some there was like
Speaker 2: some languid fucking get out of here, fuck you your nasties,
Speaker 2: but like nobody like nobody was doing anything, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. There was Yeah, there was like there
Speaker 2: was a Palestinian guys or like Masm guys who were
Speaker 2: like in BDUs with like Hezebla like badges who are
Speaker 2: like kind of meant mugging people and like look pretty serious.
Speaker 2: But I mean they were basically there because it's there's
Speaker 2: like this prayer vigil like females, and I mean like
Speaker 2: they were there basically you just to like be seen
Speaker 2: and like keep people off of like their people. But
Speaker 2: like there was no I I was getting a hit
Speaker 2: with like all these messages on you know, like social
Speaker 2: media and stuff like oh you're gonna get all you're
Speaker 2: ass kicked. I'm like, dude, I look at chicag. I'm
Speaker 2: not afraid of like fucking in TIFA. Like that's not
Speaker 2: like this scary thing to us. When his motherfuckers showed
Speaker 2: up too, Like when BLM showed up, like people fucking
Speaker 2: literally like through shots at them, you know, like like
Speaker 2: because because it's like you're not gonna invader a hood.
Speaker 2: You know, like that's not happening.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So this idea that like oh, well black people and
Speaker 2: like Hispanics just love BLM, it's like nobody's into it. Shit, man,
Speaker 2: It's it's got like I remember my buddy, our friend
Speaker 2: who was with us, you know the place, like you know,
Speaker 2: BLMS like entire endowment like disappeared and like nobody even
Speaker 2: knows where it went. Like this isn't like a real organization,
Speaker 2: and like one of them ladies that they put out
Speaker 2: fraud is like the director of BLM, just some my
Speaker 2: career NGO person who's like like, there's nothing organic about
Speaker 2: this at all, And there's nothing organic about Antifa. Like
Speaker 2: those guys who those guys who who were in the
Speaker 2: house dropped, like one of them was some dude on
Speaker 2: bond for like molesting kids. Like the other guy he
Speaker 2: was something like a homeless dude, and the last like
Speaker 2: the last real like record of doing anything he got
Speaker 2: picked up or like beating his wife or something. It
Speaker 2: was like it's like homeless dudes, and like Kiddy Touchers,
Speaker 2: they're just like showing up in Kenosha, like get the
Speaker 2: fuck out of.
Speaker 1: Here that there's a joke.
Speaker 3: He could fire three bullets into a leftist crowd, hit
Speaker 3: two pedophiles and a domestic abuser.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're all like, I mean it's obvious too.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like when uh, it's like Kevin mc
Speaker 2: it's the same thing as like Kevin McDonald pointed out
Speaker 2: in like twenty eleven when like the Nash socialist movement,
Speaker 2: like guys nobody'd ever met, nobody ever heard of. There's
Speaker 2: something who's like showing up everywhere with like a news crew,
Speaker 2: and it's like this is the far right, it's resurgence
Speaker 2: and Kenvick Donald's like who are these guys? These guys
Speaker 2: are just like independently wealthy guys who can fly all
Speaker 2: over the country without going to work, and like they
Speaker 2: they just like to dress up in Nazi uniforms, like
Speaker 2: that's their thing. Are they all millionaires? You know? It's
Speaker 2: like yeah, it's like where are these guys coming from?
Speaker 2: Just like random guys or just like going to Kenosha,
Speaker 2: Like why would you go to Kenosha? Like you know,
Speaker 2: like that makes no sense.
Speaker 3: Funny thing about about the DNS, about the d NC
Speaker 3: protests as well, is that sure every everybody had seen
Speaker 3: they got pretty popular. Zorin Sultanas shout out to him.
Speaker 3: He was the guy he had He was the one
Speaker 3: who actually was carrying the reights flag running around with it.
Speaker 3: But he was also the dude with the heads full
Speaker 3: of flag outside of the DNC entrance away. But that
Speaker 3: the whole crew that was there, the thugshakers, It was
Speaker 3: like all themselves, but like the the Nazi with fascism girl.
Speaker 3: I think that the check with purple hair who just
Speaker 3: had like the you know signs with all the racial
Speaker 3: slurs on them. Uh. The dude he dressed up like
Speaker 3: a Stalfo, the anime character with the nosbole flag, like
Speaker 3: all those kind of guys. They actually met up with
Speaker 3: those guys and on the last day we were there,
Speaker 3: they had kind of as a protester gathering, like a
Speaker 3: bunch of us, myself included. Uh, I just started like
Speaker 3: going to the middle of the protests, like, you know,
Speaker 3: just saying wild stuff. I think even like I think
Speaker 3: Thomas posted one of the videos, like the dude dressed
Speaker 3: up like the anime character is like yeah, Kamala Harris,
Speaker 3: I want you to molest me, and just kind of
Speaker 3: wild stuff. But like nobody even tried to attack us
Speaker 3: or stop us at all. Like when we started doing that,
Speaker 3: what happened is everybody bought their cameras out and they
Speaker 3: started recording, and then then they didn't even try to
Speaker 3: and then to try to stop us, put her hands
Speaker 3: of us, and they didn't even shout us down.
Speaker 2: It's one of the lady. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: were there, like our other friend was there. It's like
Speaker 2: obviously like Jewish lady. And she introduced herself. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna like say her name, but I mean she had
Speaker 2: like an obviously like like ethnic surname. And I'm not
Speaker 2: just like being a dick, like, oh, she loved Jewish.
Speaker 3: Interviewed you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she seemed to think like flicans or something,
Speaker 2: and she's like are you proud to be an American?
Speaker 2: And I'm like why would have you try to be
Speaker 2: an American? And I'm like I got like white pride
Speaker 2: all day, you know, I like I'm proud of some
Speaker 2: other things in my life. But you know, and she's
Speaker 2: like she seemed like shocked, and I'm like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: like I like you're going to vote for I'm like
Speaker 2: the first Ti'm I gonna make the fella. And I
Speaker 2: can't really vote nationally, you know, like I voute local
Speaker 2: way to keep like, you know, because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of machine type judges who've got to be kept off
Speaker 2: the bench. But it's it's like I was like speaking
Speaker 2: Chinese or something. You know, It's like what do you
Speaker 2: want me to say? Like go through up like you know,
Speaker 2: I love gd bits like missus Harris was a Marxist,
Speaker 2: Like what what did she think I was gonna say?
Speaker 1: And I think I was.
Speaker 2: I was like a British free course shirt and like
Speaker 2: some crazy fucking pants. You know, it's not it's like okay,
Speaker 2: I mean it's like you look at me and make
Speaker 2: me feel like a Republican. It's like a yeah. It
Speaker 2: was just weird.
Speaker 3: And the whole thing was there was also that like
Speaker 3: hood black dude that's with like a grill in and
Speaker 3: he had like chains and stuff, just came up and
Speaker 3: started an interview, and.
Speaker 2: That of random too. Yeah yeah, hood dude. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: can I interview you guys? And we're like yeah, Like
Speaker 2: his his question seemed kind of more like just like
Speaker 2: a run of the mill, like like journalism student questions
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. One lady she's like trying to
Speaker 2: get me to like say some crazy stuff like you know,
Speaker 2: I think niggers and mister Trump is great or so,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what she was going for.
Speaker 3: Like the protests themselves, because that's really where we were at,
Speaker 3: got like super muddled. Obviously, we had the you know
Speaker 3: you'd have like every stripe of leftist, Like our friend
Speaker 3: who's familiar with those groups, are joking that, like, we're
Speaker 3: not the Revolutionary com of America with a revolutionary American Communists,
Speaker 3: but like we have an interview to guy, I think
Speaker 3: a couple of people with like groups, and they just
Speaker 3: gave us this kind of boilerplate Trotzky and stuff. But
Speaker 3: like the last day we were there, there was like
Speaker 3: a couple of people who came out who were like,
Speaker 3: it's like America first, there's the American Nationalists and they
Speaker 3: were just like, yeah, we don't support Palestine or Israel,
Speaker 3: and we're here for American patriotism and.
Speaker 2: Just they were just yeah, I thought, I thought those
Speaker 2: guys were like they were they were like trying to
Speaker 2: get smoke from the crowd. Thought I thought, those guys
Speaker 2: are gonna get the rasses kick. I remember one black
Speaker 2: guy who was with them, like my one friend that
Speaker 2: my friend who was with us, He's like, you think
Speaker 2: that guys like stolen val and I'm looking at him.
Speaker 2: He was probably a little younger than me, but he
Speaker 2: had he had like an eighty second Airborne bad John.
Speaker 2: Then he had like a bunch of shit that like
Speaker 2: didn't make sense, like I think he had like jump
Speaker 2: wings on, which made sense. Then he had like he
Speaker 2: had like the fourth recon like fucking like Scooba mask
Speaker 2: or something, and then like a bunch of other ship
Speaker 2: and uh, I'm like I don't know, but he was
Speaker 2: like he was like Tawnic a bunch of the people
Speaker 2: and like the crowd they gathered around him and the
Speaker 2: like when they started like moving in, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that guy's gonna get fucking stopped. He doesn't fucking stop
Speaker 2: saying that dumb ship. But it was it was weird. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: those guys just like Someddy show up like we live America.
Speaker 2: It's like you're a fucking idiot. But yeah, it was
Speaker 2: uh and it was like in Congress, it's like what
Speaker 2: do you Yeah, it's not even like there was some
Speaker 2: big mob, but like like Palestinians like marching and they're
Speaker 2: like fuck you, we love America. Just got to know
Speaker 2: these guys suddenly like show up and uh it's like
Speaker 2: the you know, it's like who exactly were dressing here? Man?
Speaker 2: It's like you, I mean, it's not exactly receptive. Uh
Speaker 2: a receptive mob that was on. Like the whole thing
Speaker 2: was like weird. Man. It was like it was just
Speaker 2: like weird, you know, like what it wasn't what I
Speaker 2: thought it would either be. I thought that it would
Speaker 2: either be like d NC people and these uh like
Speaker 2: bee on An Antifa types got busted in like mod Deep,
Speaker 2: or I thought there'd be like nobody there. Like what
Speaker 2: there was was like I didn't expect it and it
Speaker 2: was really weird.
Speaker 1: So besides the the people who are obviously invited to
Speaker 1: the convention, they who are you know, they're they're there,
Speaker 1: They're going to be there no matter what. There's no
Speaker 1: grassroots whatsoever. There's no one there. There's no fans of
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, there's no fans of Joe Biden. There's no
Speaker 1: fans of the regime. Whereas you know, at the at
Speaker 1: the convention, even in in Wisconsin, even if you or
Speaker 1: was it Minnesota, I can't remember where the hell the
Speaker 1: RNC one was. The Yeah, you would have had people
Speaker 1: outside who couldn't get in because you know, they're not invited,
Speaker 1: but they would be there to support Trump or there
Speaker 1: would be protesters there.
Speaker 2: Well, I've tried to explain to people, especially these guys,
Speaker 2: and look, man, I'm not I'm very much a dissident. Man.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that pretend like I'm tough for like
Speaker 2: or anything like that. It's just like a fact they
Speaker 2: don't like engage with this stuff. I don't index with.
Speaker 2: But Kamala Harris is literally this like random lady, like
Speaker 2: you can't. The way campaigning works, you basically got to
Speaker 2: hustle twenty four to seven. It's like we got to
Speaker 2: be your full time job with no breaks on Saturdays
Speaker 2: and Sundays, and you gotta do it for years. Some
Speaker 2: of this harror is basically being this like people like, oh,
Speaker 2: but she was a senator. There they're there, there's there's
Speaker 2: fifty fucking senators. Okay, like you've got to. You've got to.
Speaker 2: You've got a campaign like coast to coast and barnstorm.
Speaker 2: You should have been doing this for two years. Okay.
Speaker 2: First of all, it's not possible. You can be invisible,
Speaker 2: an invisible vice president like she was, and then replace
Speaker 2: the actual nominee months in and then suddenly be like
Speaker 2: pulling you know, uh, like over fifty percent. And today
Speaker 2: it's that like back Trump in twenty sixteen, Like that
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. That's not possible. You know now branded I
Speaker 2: mean the point before my Twitter got exploded and nine's sixty,
Speaker 2: Kennedy was drawing these like mass crowds, Like the dude
Speaker 2: was like Mick Jagger, like like not to be crude.
Speaker 2: Like women would literally get like excited and like a
Speaker 2: porniye over him. You know, people like like girls to
Speaker 2: be streaming. You'd have like all these like everybody from
Speaker 2: like old people to like these like tough Irish guys
Speaker 2: to like little kids were like, yeah, we love Kennedy,
Speaker 2: and like Nixon had show up somewhere and they'd be
Speaker 2: basically like nobody there, Sonny. The Kennedy's campaign is like this,
Speaker 2: this guy shit Nixon isn't nobody, like, don't even worry
Speaker 2: about it. But then come like election day, it's like
Speaker 2: a dead heat, okay, and that's why people an advanced
Speaker 2: like Kennedy fixed Chicago, which he probably did. But my
Speaker 2: point is that it's like, okay, fine, you can't always
Speaker 2: tell by like bodies in the street, but I'm telling
Speaker 2: you and missus Harris is like this like super candidate
Speaker 2: without campaigning is like drawing like all this fucking support
Speaker 2: and like black people think she's just great. You would
Speaker 2: have had a lot of fucking people on the ground
Speaker 2: in Chicago. If nowhere else, you would have had a
Speaker 2: lot of people on the ground here, I guarantee you.
Speaker 3: Well, even like a more recent example, your flashback, I think,
Speaker 3: especially the twenty sixteen even like Bernie Sanders had a
Speaker 3: lot of on the ground support from kind of a
Speaker 3: wide range of the occupied type people.
Speaker 2: Because Clinton was a terrible candidate, but you still had
Speaker 2: like the diehards like showing up at her campaign stops,
Speaker 2: you know, and the d n C. You know, like
Speaker 2: it's it was like like her old campaign was like
Speaker 2: media fakery, but she did have some actual like people
Speaker 2: on the ground to show up to backer.
Speaker 1: You know. Obama, Obama too, Like the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight inauguration, like the most attended inauguration of all time.
Speaker 1: Well why because Washington, d C is overwhelmingly black, and
Speaker 1: everyone showed. They all came out and there was even
Speaker 1: though he was even though he was a candidate that
Speaker 1: was set up to be in that spot, he legitimately
Speaker 1: had grassroots support.
Speaker 2: It's also Obama like fake is a sentence. He was
Speaker 2: that dude was campaigning basically for four years, you know,
Speaker 2: like it h he started campaigning, like the moment he
Speaker 2: ran against Bobby rush here and got beat, then he's like, okay,
Speaker 2: I gotta change my whole program. And he basically, yeah,
Speaker 2: he had advantages because like CNNMSNBC, you know back then,
Speaker 2: like legacy media, radio, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, two thousand and four convention, Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they they plug the shit out of him. But
Speaker 2: he also was campaigning NonStop for four years. Okay, like
Speaker 2: missus Harris, she can just like like like basically like
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty days out like from the election,
Speaker 2: she can just like declare herself a candidate, not campaign
Speaker 2: and she's like just like dominating the polls. That's not possible,
Speaker 2: that's not how it works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we saw in real time that happened. We
Speaker 3: were saying, you know, we screwed a little bit with
Speaker 3: the d n C attendees, but we're really what we
Speaker 3: were trying to do is just to see how they react.
Speaker 3: And there was just all these low energy people, people
Speaker 3: just kind of you know, we didn't get any violent reactions,
Speaker 3: we didn't get any confrontations. We didn't even get anyone
Speaker 3: trying to like joke along with us or anything. Everybody
Speaker 3: just sort of looked away. It's like our friends said.
Speaker 3: When he was at the RNC, the you know, you
Speaker 3: got some of the I guess like lunar religious, more
Speaker 3: fringe people there, and the Republicans are going up to
Speaker 3: them and talking to them and being friendly with them,
Speaker 3: and then the the DNC to Democratic Party, all those
Speaker 3: people hate their own guys.
Speaker 2: It's just so weird. It's very like corporate. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like our friend who like he actually like was
Speaker 2: able to procure a press pass so he like penetrated.
Speaker 2: He went into like the DNC at United Center. He
Speaker 2: was like inside like pretending to be like a reporter
Speaker 2: a delegate. And he said that like when he talked
Speaker 2: to people, like he talked to some of his his
Speaker 2: hair as as people, and he said they were just
Speaker 2: giving him these like weird, like canned answers, like this
Speaker 2: is Harri's answer for this, you know, it'say. It was,
Speaker 2: it was like totally like weird. And he's like a
Speaker 2: dude who's been like like Tom just said, you know,
Speaker 2: he's a dude who's been around these types of people
Speaker 2: a lot. You know, he was at the RNC like
Speaker 2: he he's used to being around like Capitol Hill people.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like they these people apparently, these people
Speaker 2: apparently in the United Center, like I said, they were
Speaker 2: just they were giving these kind of like canned answers
Speaker 2: that there's kind of like no margin for I don't
Speaker 2: even know, like conversation or something. But he said it
Speaker 2: was very strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then there were no young people there as well.
Speaker 3: It was all you know, older, older millennials and older
Speaker 3: there there were no you know, even with Hillary you
Speaker 3: had sort of the college sorority sort of backing for
Speaker 3: we didn't. We didn't see any of that. And kind
Speaker 3: of another notable I guess absence from there. I didn't
Speaker 3: really see a lot of a lot of Trumpers.
Speaker 1: I think of the last day.
Speaker 3: There were some people at the protests with kind of
Speaker 3: pro Israel, pro Zionists, maybe more conservative stuff. We didn't
Speaker 3: see them. We didn't see really any groupers. There was
Speaker 3: that one, like I said, America first guy who was
Speaker 3: a little bit goofy. But but like as I had
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, those big protests in Portland and California and
Speaker 3: everything else, the kind of the main counter for us
Speaker 3: that was there were they you know, they weren't hard
Speaker 3: and fast nationalists or or all writers or anything like that.
Speaker 3: Though they were like conservative type dudes and kind of
Speaker 3: you know whatever you think about like the Proud Boys
Speaker 3: or something like that.
Speaker 2: I mean those gy Chicago is a really weird place
Speaker 2: and like all all kinds of ways, like you basically
Speaker 2: you basically don't have like I mean, you've got like
Speaker 2: you've got like cops and you got like white dudes
Speaker 2: from the hoods like the Clearing and like uh at
Speaker 2: Bridgeport and like Beverly and like they they like Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: but like they're not like super mega guys and like
Speaker 2: they know that like this isn't a battleground state anyways.
Speaker 2: They're kind of like whatever. Like you're more likely to
Speaker 2: actually find like a hardline like kind of like pro
Speaker 2: white guys here than you would like Republicans. It's like
Speaker 2: this don't really exist here, Like and I try to
Speaker 2: explain that to people, like you're more you're like walking
Speaker 2: like a bar or something in like a white hood
Speaker 2: and uh, you say on the bar and like I
Speaker 2: started telling any more jokes, like guys would probably laugh
Speaker 2: and that be okay with that, but like they would
Speaker 2: they're not guys who like are into the Republican Party
Speaker 2: or like anything like that. It's like a weird culture.
Speaker 2: That's part of it. Part why it didn't see like
Speaker 2: pro Trump stuff. It was a stick and speaking with
Speaker 2: absence of any like hair stuff even like uh, but
Speaker 2: they were like totally foo bar like, like I shouted
Speaker 2: out on social media, like they delegates having to wait
Speaker 2: like two and three hours to get into the United Center.
Speaker 2: It's like, what the fuck's wrong with you? This is
Speaker 2: this is a this venue is like it's literally a
Speaker 2: venue made for this sort of thing. You know, you
Speaker 2: can't you're not organized enough to like get people do
Speaker 2: security in short of than like three hours, like you know.
Speaker 2: And then they apparently much a media people were mad
Speaker 2: because you know, they divided it between McCormick Place and
Speaker 2: the United Center. But that actually I guaranee they did
Speaker 2: that for like security purposes and to prevent like mob
Speaker 2: to beat like protesters, But that also meant that like
Speaker 2: nobody knew like where the people were they wanted to
Speaker 2: talk to, and like a bunch of people got like
Speaker 2: fucked up informations. They like went to McCormick Place United
Speaker 2: Center when they were supposed to be the other place,
Speaker 2: like the whole thing seemed like a big It seemed
Speaker 2: like amateur hour, you know, like our buddies said. He's
Speaker 2: like this is pretty damning, and I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think so. You know, like if if I guarantee you
Speaker 2: if there was like some Trump rally or they rn
Speaker 2: T Milwaukee and it was like you had to wait
Speaker 2: three hours, like they'd be like oh in the media
Speaker 2: like look at these fucking idiots, and they'd be right frankly.
Speaker 2: But that's another point, man. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 2: you're like say whatever they want. You know, basically the
Speaker 2: entire country is like is like red territory in terms
Speaker 2: of the political map, you know, and like Trump does
Speaker 2: these like rallies all the time. You might think those
Speaker 2: rallies are stupid or like hokey, but the point is
Speaker 2: if you want to see Donald Trump, you can see
Speaker 2: him like basically anywhere in the country. Like how to
Speaker 2: fuck even like go see missus Harris. I guess you
Speaker 2: like wait, wait for three hours outside of the United
Speaker 2: Center and you can. But like that's it. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like you can't, you know, I you can't like
Speaker 2: telling me that like some court to some kind of
Speaker 2: campaign is being made out of this of a legitimate sort.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got to really hustle to get people
Speaker 2: to go to the polls. You know, there's all this
Speaker 2: kind of evidence there aren't elections anymore, you know, because
Speaker 2: like they they don't care because why would they, because
Speaker 2: we're not gonna hold an election. So you know, all
Speaker 2: that matters, is all that matters, this perception of maybe
Speaker 2: like you know, a third in the country who's like
Speaker 2: actually like you know, capable and engage enough to to
Speaker 2: do something. You know, if if they decide they're they're
Speaker 2: not gonna they're not gonna, you know, recognize the sovereignty
Speaker 2: of the state anymore. You know. It's like but if
Speaker 2: all you gotta do basically is like sell, it is
Speaker 2: like good enough, like you know, and plan some kind
Speaker 2: of doubt in people's minds, like you know, maybe missus
Speaker 2: Harris carried this election. That's what they did to California. Man,
Speaker 2: that's what I was shouting out. You didn't California didn't
Speaker 2: like one day go from being like the Republican heartland
Speaker 2: to like, oh now it's now it's a permanently saved
Speaker 2: blue state because of Mexicans. That's not how things work.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just not that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Well, you know. One of the other things I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: One of the other things about you know, Harris is
Speaker 1: like they have this interview that's coming up where she's
Speaker 1: not going to be interviewed alone, and you know, the
Speaker 1: the the gay dad Vice President Hopeful is going to
Speaker 1: be with her, you know, so that basically he can
Speaker 1: interrupt when she can't answer a question. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: no you know, and we talk about this all the time.
Speaker 1: There's no policy there. We I was talking to a
Speaker 1: friend of mine today and he was saying how he
Speaker 1: one of his like like he has a cousin's who's
Speaker 1: a lesbian and her lesbian or like, oh, we're voting
Speaker 1: for Kamala And he's like, well, why what does she
Speaker 1: stand for that you're voting? You know what policies?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, no, you know, I'll feel safer
Speaker 1: being gay and having It's like, that's not a policy.
Speaker 2: What do you know?
Speaker 1: What does she stand for?
Speaker 2: What's also I tried to point out to people and
Speaker 2: they don't believe me, but I'm like, look, they're like no,
Speaker 2: this is the Obama's like runting to run this ethnic lady.
Speaker 2: So they sent up Joe Biden for filer. I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's not what happened, man, Like, basically Biden was so
Speaker 2: fucked up, like he couldn't carry it. And when they
Speaker 2: finally realized that, they're like fucky. I guarantee they went
Speaker 2: to somebody like Gavin Knew someone They're like, you're gonna run.
Speaker 2: He's like nope, I'm not doing it. So who they got? Yea,
Speaker 2: who they got?
Speaker 3: I mean, I recalled during the Tony twenty election when
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris put up her actual presidential ticket, she was
Speaker 3: basically laughed off stage. I thought it was weird at
Speaker 3: the time, and I really don't know deep Washington politics
Speaker 3: or anything like that. I thought it was weird. She
Speaker 3: was a weird pick for vice president.
Speaker 2: But no, the whole thing is strange, like her all
Speaker 2: sentency is strange. But I guarantee you this wasn't something
Speaker 2: like machiavellian operation by the Obama is to like humiliate
Speaker 2: Joe Biden and run this like random lady who can't
Speaker 2: complete an interview without looking like a moron. That's not
Speaker 2: there was. This was this is them, Like that's like
Speaker 2: saying that like, you know, the Soviet Union made cheer,
Speaker 2: it ain't go look crazy, so then they could put
Speaker 2: gorbache off in there. It's it's like some things are
Speaker 2: with the appear man and I guarantee you I guarantee
Speaker 2: you man. Like the guys like the like the money
Speaker 2: guys who like fund all this ship, they were beside
Speaker 2: themselves that like they could not get somebody other than
Speaker 2: Missus Harris to fucking take up the slag. Okay, like
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because they're gonna fix it anyway, but
Speaker 2: they're like, I guarantee that, like looking at this ship,
Speaker 2: like this is fucking ridiculous, you know, like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a problem. You know.
Speaker 3: It's I think part of the reason that the things
Speaker 3: were so low energy in that uh, miss Harris didn't
Speaker 3: have any on the grounds a part of it because
Speaker 3: they don't. They won't, they don't want to draw attention
Speaker 3: to her. I think, like the best thing band is
Speaker 3: try and forth through like a couple, you know, to
Speaker 3: terrible pop culture. Tek took means. I mean, some people
Speaker 3: think even in our sphere, have made that out to
Speaker 3: be a lot more than it is. They were like
Speaker 3: what they were banking on and what you could kind
Speaker 3: of get for Joe Biden. And I heard people talk
Speaker 3: about this both, you know, in the media and and
Speaker 3: in real life. It's that Joe Biden kind of represents
Speaker 3: return to normalcy, as stupid as that is. But uh,
Speaker 3: you know what, what if Kamala Harris doesn't represent anything
Speaker 3: and Tim Waltz doesn't represent anything. I looked into him
Speaker 3: a little bit, just like you.
Speaker 2: Man, like he I mean, honestly, like Vance was a
Speaker 2: bad pick for Trump. I know that makes people mags.
Speaker 2: They like Dvance is They're like fantasy boyfriend despite the
Speaker 2: fact he's terrible. But I got Trump like like Vance
Speaker 2: is Teal's guy, like literally like like like uh he
Speaker 2: had Teal at or like thick as thieves, like Teal
Speaker 2: gave him a job like it's no work job with
Speaker 2: one of his fucking hedge funds like that, Like Heal
Speaker 2: is basically Heal is the Vance, like Carl Icon at
Speaker 2: the Trump. He's like it's like surrogate dead. So Til
Speaker 2: says that Trump, You're gonna take this guy as your
Speaker 2: fucking running mate. You know, That's that's just how it is.
Speaker 2: So I mean, Trump had no choice, Okay, Kamala's people
Speaker 2: did have a choice, but they're so goofy. They think
Speaker 2: that like Walls is like some guy, like yeah, see,
Speaker 2: like white people like him because he's a white guy.
Speaker 2: Like they don't get that, like there's real problems here
Speaker 2: and like Minnesota weird. They were weird political culture, man,
Speaker 2: And like even if even if Walls had like more
Speaker 2: charisma and wasn't just like this kind of cringe, you know,
Speaker 2: like old guy. You know, it's not the stuff that
Speaker 2: indexes with them is not gonna index like the rest
Speaker 2: of the country, you know, So it's like they don't.
Speaker 2: That's kind of like they're desperate attempt to be like no,
Speaker 2: see this is actually a normal ticket. But yeah, you're
Speaker 2: absolutely right. They don't want to draw attention to him
Speaker 2: as its Harris, And like the entirety of like the campaign,
Speaker 2: it's just like whether I want to or not, I
Speaker 2: get it, Like this fucking uh cricket wireless. I love
Speaker 2: it because it's like so cheap. But like I get
Speaker 2: these like aggregate news alerts on my phone whether I
Speaker 2: want them or not, Like I don't I see an
Speaker 2: MSNBC's like not a single thing about this is who
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris is this is like a bagwards like Donald
Speaker 2: Trump said this, Donald Trump heats better. Donald Trump is
Speaker 2: doing this like you never get any kind of cap
Speaker 2: about like oh, Kamala Harris like work for the blind kids,
Speaker 2: or she's like really smart, her husband's like a great guy.
Speaker 2: It's like nothing, nothing, you know, it's not it's not
Speaker 2: a campaign like even in even it kind of like
Speaker 2: the lame like post COVID suns or post lockdown sense.
Speaker 3: You know, well, the I think part of the reason
Speaker 3: that they're having so much trouble, as well as the
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party and the mainstream left really went all
Speaker 3: in on the woke stuff, if you want to term
Speaker 3: it that, and anybody even if they were to run
Speaker 3: like a Tulci Gaward or an RFK Junior or even
Speaker 3: a Bernie Sanders, he's not a good choice at this
Speaker 3: point either, but you know, he still has some appeal
Speaker 3: to people if you if you run someone like that,
Speaker 3: they're they're inherently too white, they're inherently too conservative just
Speaker 3: by the fact that they're not out and out freaks.
Speaker 3: You could run a Kamala Harris or Tim Walls because
Speaker 3: they really don't believe anything. You can kind of paint
Speaker 3: over them whenever you want. Exactly if you're feel like
Speaker 3: a homosexual or a you know, some urbanite woman that
Speaker 3: loves abortion, you'd Kamala Harris as your candidate because you
Speaker 3: can just project that onto her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like a tabloa rosso. Well it's alsome.
Speaker 2: I mean I make the point all the time. You know,
Speaker 2: after Republicans after November nine, nineteen eighty nine, they had
Speaker 2: nothing because after after Taft got and the America First
Speaker 2: Wing like for all practical purposes like rendered like illegal,
Speaker 2: Like all the Republicans had was they were like they
Speaker 2: were like the cold War hawk party. Yeah, they were
Speaker 2: a cold War hawk party, and they were the party
Speaker 2: basically like the supply sires. Well when supply side or
Speaker 2: stuff became like the norm you know under Reagan and
Speaker 2: like a Cold War ended, like Republicans don't have anything
Speaker 2: like at all. They just don't have a platform, I
Speaker 2: think at that point, because like people insist it like
Speaker 2: I'm just like misreading this, and there actually is like
Speaker 2: a mainstream right. I mean there's not the it's not
Speaker 2: like a mainstream left either. You know, It's like you
Speaker 2: got like they're, uh, you know, they've got they've got
Speaker 2: like what was like the counter majoritarian grievance ideology. But
Speaker 2: you need like more than that, you know, like you
Speaker 2: need like the Democrats actually like they you need like
Speaker 2: an industrial like laboring class to like have a labor party.
Speaker 2: Like that's why Ridiculo is like the British Colored Party
Speaker 2: like labor, Like why why is it labor like that?
Speaker 2: Because what said is having like the monarchist party, you know,
Speaker 2: so your Democrats as like the American like Party of Labor.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, like what are you guys? You know, like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're we're the party of of like oppressed black people
Speaker 2: and LGBTQ. Okay, fine, you can't build a mandate out
Speaker 2: of that. You're talking about like fifteen percent of the
Speaker 2: national population, you know what I mean? Like what that
Speaker 2: that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting is with the with all the manufacturing
Speaker 1: getting shipped overseas, I mean, it basically destroyed labor labor
Speaker 1: unions in this country. And labor unions used to be
Speaker 1: huge in the in the elections, and it's it really
Speaker 1: seems now without that labor I mean, and that was
Speaker 1: for decades and decades it was about labor uni instead
Speaker 1: appealing to labor unions, and now it seems like when
Speaker 1: you you have to replace that with something like the woke,
Speaker 1: or you have to replace it with some kind of
Speaker 1: some kind of ideology that takes its place where the
Speaker 1: people you can gather people too and organize people too,
Speaker 1: and nothing is going to work as well as organized
Speaker 1: labor would.
Speaker 2: What's also the entire I mean, the entire paradigm is
Speaker 2: like obsolescent. You know, it's not just that, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're absolutely right, it's not just that, like the it's
Speaker 2: not not like the establishment, like the establishment duopoly parties
Speaker 2: you know, have like no reason of debtrin anymore. Like
Speaker 2: the state is structured. I mean it's basically structured to
Speaker 2: fight the Cold War and not do much else. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like they make a big deal, like the big
Speaker 2: news story. You know, like the US Navy has like
Speaker 2: a stabbering like fourteen aircraft carriers and they were like
Speaker 2: on the they ran MSNBC and ran the story that
Speaker 2: went like semi viral among like mainstream like Republican goofballs,
Speaker 2: but like, oh, the Navy can't meet its recruiting goals
Speaker 2: to like staff like all of its uh you know,
Speaker 2: all of its ships. And it's like why do these
Speaker 2: ships exist? Like you're gonna you're gonna fight the imaginary
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. You're gonna have you're gonna fight some like
Speaker 2: imaginary surface warfare engagement against the Chinese navy that doesn't
Speaker 2: actually exist. You know. It's like people like, oh, don't
Speaker 2: don't don't you support the military. I'm like to do what,
Speaker 2: you know, like this idea that like you need, like
Speaker 2: this idea that you need like a million people in uniform.
Speaker 2: You know, you need like aircraft carriers in every ocean.
Speaker 2: That's that's not normal, Like that's you know, like the
Speaker 2: forty four years in the Cold War, Like yeah, you
Speaker 2: need like a force structure that emphasises readiness and depth.
Speaker 2: This idea that that's just something you need always Like
Speaker 2: that's that's bizarre, you know, and like uh yeah, and
Speaker 2: I mean this is one example. But like the idea
Speaker 2: that the government has structured just like must keep existing.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like one of these I mean, Federal
Speaker 2: Law enforcem had nothing to do after the Cold War.
Speaker 2: You know, the FBI's main job. It's not to like
Speaker 2: it's not to shake down like Italian guys, like pushing
Speaker 2: heroin in some like shithole like Brooklyn Italian ghetto. Like
Speaker 2: his job is kept a counterintelligence and to suss out
Speaker 2: the KGB Jerior's presence in the United States. It's that's
Speaker 2: like arrest guys for like shaking down tramp houses and
Speaker 2: like terrorized outfit guys. But I mean that's what it
Speaker 2: does now, I mean, like that's you know, like why
Speaker 2: yeah you really like yeah, go ahead, well, and like.
Speaker 3: In their regard, I'm in American foreign policies collapsing all
Speaker 3: over the war in Ukraine and the Israeli Gaza massacre,
Speaker 3: and even going back to the war in Afghanistan, this
Speaker 3: kind of the war in Syria, the migration crisis. Having
Speaker 3: all these countries collapse within our sphere of influence in
Speaker 3: South America and all over the place, clearly know he's
Speaker 3: nobody's buying with the United States, is selling anymore. And
Speaker 3: you don't have the Soviet Union to point out and say, look,
Speaker 3: you can you can side with us, you can side
Speaker 3: with them. Plenty of people and the bricks and everyone
Speaker 3: else has proved this. Plenty of people view the Russians
Speaker 3: into Chinese as a much better option, and then they're
Speaker 3: correct to you.
Speaker 2: Well they also people don't understand that point. I talked
Speaker 2: to my dad about this. You know, a place like
Speaker 2: Russia and China, Like if you're America, still, even if
Speaker 2: it's kind of a post I'm getting lege. Economically, Americans
Speaker 2: are still like ridiculously rich, like compared to everybody else
Speaker 2: on this planet. Like even like poor people, you can
Speaker 2: get like a link card, and you can get like
Speaker 2: you can get like a credit card, like a five
Speaker 2: thousand dollars limit. You mays just like pull free money
Speaker 2: out of the air. Or even if you're a bum, okay,
Speaker 2: like Russia and China, they actually like bad as some
Speaker 2: things might be there. Those people live better than like
Speaker 2: ninety percent of this planet. So if you're some guy
Speaker 2: in Africa or some guy in Venezuela or some guy,
Speaker 2: uh you know in like Laos, you look at like
Speaker 2: China like that's that's like that's like the Emerald City
Speaker 2: in oz or something. You look at like Russia like,
Speaker 2: hey man, Russia is like a world power, Like that's
Speaker 2: you know, they got technology and they got like all
Speaker 2: this stuff. You know, like you think that that's like
Speaker 2: insanely insane fucking wealth and plenty, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: not people are really really provincial here. They think like
Speaker 2: everywhere is like Chicago or La or like New York City.
Speaker 2: It's not at all like that. And and like you're
Speaker 2: the majority of this planet. I think, what's what's the
Speaker 2: statistic like something like I think like six hundred million
Speaker 2: people like live on like three dollars a day, and
Speaker 2: there's like a billion people that live on like a
Speaker 2: dollar fifty a day. And that's like normal, I think
Speaker 2: about that. So yeah, this idea that like this idea
Speaker 2: that like, oh, it's crazy to think that you know,
Speaker 2: these people in in in the underdeveloped world, they're kind
Speaker 2: of the permanently well used to be called the third world.
Speaker 2: That they'd be like, oh, they they'd never want anything
Speaker 2: to do with China rush. It's like what are you
Speaker 2: talking about? And like a Chinese or like a Muscovite
Speaker 2: like garment guy shows up in Africa. That that guy,
Speaker 2: that guy's like a baller, you know, like p there's
Speaker 2: the pet. The natives there look at that guy. Like
Speaker 2: this guy is ridiculous. He's got like he's got a
Speaker 2: brand new like fucking Tesla he's driving around in He's
Speaker 2: got like endless money, you know, he's got like endless
Speaker 2: fucking guns and Ammo. Like it's it's it's like crazy
Speaker 2: to them, you know, like I don't know wy people
Speaker 2: can't get their ain't around it.
Speaker 3: Plus, if you side with you, siding with Russia and China,
Speaker 3: they're not going to try and socially engineer you out
Speaker 3: of existence as I tried to do with the Taliban,
Speaker 3: and the Afghanistan made their choice, and you know the.
Speaker 2: Two. I mean, you're absolutely right, But like my buddy,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna name it, but I told you that
Speaker 2: dude he was like in the Marine Corps as he
Speaker 2: was an infantry officer and then he went to Naval Intelligence.
Speaker 2: He told me that in Afghanistan. He was in Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: he was an Africa. And he's like, they're literally following
Speaker 2: this like nineteen sixty three, like Cold War playbook, where
Speaker 2: it's like we're going to train indigenous forces with our values.
Speaker 2: I'm like to do what, Like are they fighting like
Speaker 2: the imaginary Viet Cong or like the communists trying to
Speaker 2: sway them to their side? What are you training these
Speaker 2: people to do? It's Like, I totally get it if
Speaker 2: you want only a forward deployment in Afghanistan, especially considering
Speaker 2: what I think by mid century is going to be
Speaker 2: like a real kind of hot content between the United States,
Speaker 2: the Rusian Federation, China. You know, plays like Kazakhstan are
Speaker 2: gonna be very significant in this kind of contest. So
Speaker 2: I get it you want like a ford deployment in Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: Like why are you training the Afghan National Army? That
Speaker 2: makes literally no fucking sense. That's like militarily asamine, you know,
Speaker 2: like you don't you don't train indigenous forces to fight
Speaker 2: the communists and the absence of the communists, you know,
Speaker 2: you just deploy there and you buy off if you
Speaker 2: have to buy off in order to like make sure
Speaker 2: things run smoothly, you do things like the British Empire did.
Speaker 2: The British Empire didn't train indigenous forces against imaginary ops.
Speaker 2: They said we're gonna be here. It's not like Cartel says.
Speaker 2: There's like the Spanish like I don't, I don't know,
Speaker 2: like adage or something. It's like you can either have
Speaker 2: like it's like you can have my silver, you can
Speaker 2: have my steel, you can take my money. Or I'm
Speaker 2: gonna cut you to pieces if you won't cooperate. Like
Speaker 2: that's basically how you handle like imperial foreign policy place
Speaker 2: like Afghanistan. It's like we're gonna be here, We're gonna
Speaker 2: deploy a relative depth. You can get rich from this
Speaker 2: or you can't have a problem, you know, like why
Speaker 2: why why are we training afgames? What are you training
Speaker 2: them to do?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: It's when you were mentioned in this military, this Cold
Speaker 1: War military. I remember back in like two thousand and
Speaker 1: seven when Ron Paul was running and he was up
Speaker 1: on the debate stage and he had made the comment
Speaker 1: He's like, we need like six submarines. We need like
Speaker 1: three submarines in the Atlantic, three submarines in the Pacific,
Speaker 1: and we have our missile system. What else do we need?
Speaker 1: That's it? At every Cold warrior was like screaming, you know,
Speaker 1: screaming about how the Muslims were gonna come here and everything.
Speaker 1: If what if we don't have fourteen aircraft.
Speaker 2: Carriers, I mean, like even if it's like what's like
Speaker 2: Michael Schuyer said, like even if you accept obviously I
Speaker 2: don't know, but even if you accept like the Islamic
Speaker 2: world is some kind of like op It's like, okay, obviously,
Speaker 2: the way you'd handle that is you'd basically like exclude
Speaker 2: Islamic integration and then like close the southern border. Like
Speaker 2: you wouldn't build like dozens of aircraft carriers and pretend
Speaker 2: that you know we're we and and pretend that you
Speaker 2: know we we need we need like the F twenty
Speaker 2: two and the Joint Strike fight or otherwise like we're
Speaker 2: gonna get worked by by some kind of Soviet aircraft
Speaker 2: that runs it obsolete. Like I like, even if that
Speaker 2: was true, it's like, okay, so why why you're praying
Speaker 2: to basically wage like a combined arms conventional war, you know,
Speaker 2: with these platforms that haven't been viable in decades. I mean,
Speaker 2: I also think that go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: The Zionist narrative that would back up anything like that
Speaker 3: other against the Russians, the Chinese, or the Islamic world,
Speaker 3: I mean, that's collapsing in on itself in real time,
Speaker 3: as we saw, like all those protests on the DNC,
Speaker 3: the corrupt of them was the Israel Palestine issue. There
Speaker 3: is no going outside and declaring yourself as this big,
Speaker 3: you know, Zionist warrior for Israel and Christian America has
Speaker 3: no sway now with anybody right, right, left or or center.
Speaker 2: No that and that that is a huge sea change, man,
Speaker 2: because like when I was I realized, I I don't
Speaker 2: want to I don't want to sound like some old
Speaker 2: guy just say I'm like, you know, you should appreciate
Speaker 2: what you have today, Like I mean, there is some
Speaker 2: true to that, man, Like especially like when younger guys
Speaker 2: like weren't alive then they're like, you know what you're
Speaker 2: talking about. Shots, It's not like when you were young.
Speaker 2: It's so bad now. I'm like, bro, people fucking people
Speaker 2: hated us man at like thirty years ago, and the
Speaker 2: only ninety if you're like a white dude is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm pro white. Like in Chicago, if you, like I said,
Speaker 2: if you went to a place like Bridgeport of Beverly, yeah,
Speaker 2: some guys would be like, okay, bro, I am too.
Speaker 2: Like on the open street, people have like look at
Speaker 2: you like you're a fucking scumbag and like you you
Speaker 2: basically couldn't go to like seventy down of the city
Speaker 2: because it's like you get stopped out and people would
Speaker 2: accept it and like it's your fault, Like while you're
Speaker 2: fucking around with within a non white hood, you're asking
Speaker 2: for it. Like nobody would talk that way now, you know,
Speaker 2: like even here, like nobody would talk that way.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like basically they expect like like basically if you're
Speaker 2: like a white dude, it's like expected you at least
Speaker 2: kind of like Donald Trump, and like you probably have
Speaker 2: like right wing ideas of some sort and people that's
Speaker 2: just like that's the way it is, you know. And
Speaker 2: like basically you're looked at like a weirdo or like
Speaker 2: corny if like you like Israel, like whether you're like
Speaker 2: right or left, Like nobody likes Israel. Like thirty years ago,
Speaker 2: people say like you're like a piece of shit, Like
Speaker 2: how dar you say about Israel? They're like our only friends,
Speaker 2: you know, like like nobody talks that way now, man,
Speaker 2: like nobody, and if you do, you're viewed as like
Speaker 2: some corny weirdo. You know. It's like so I want
Speaker 2: to accept that, Like things are so bad now when
Speaker 2: people used to be based like that's not remotely the
Speaker 2: way shit is. Like it's it's literally like odds with reality,
Speaker 2: you know, And like I say, like I I don't
Speaker 2: plan to be like super worldly, but I'm mean I
Speaker 2: do spend like half the year traveling around and like
Speaker 2: I I basically spend my day like walking around a
Speaker 2: metro area five million people. And I think I know something, man,
Speaker 2: Like I don't, you know, it's it's it's it's like
Speaker 2: night and day compared to thirty years ago today, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm mean saying too, like people like this like
Speaker 2: election fakeries not something new. It goes back to nine
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. Okay, that was probably the last time
Speaker 2: there was like real, real like presidential election, you know,
Speaker 2: and like like with people like voting and votes being
Speaker 2: tallied and that outcome being honored, and you know, like
Speaker 2: I said, like after that, it was just like horse
Speaker 2: training as like what party and what what you know,
Speaker 2: kind of aggregate interest. Get Okay, you get this state,
Speaker 2: we get that state, you get this, we get that.
Speaker 2: You know. I So it's not you can't convince me
Speaker 2: that like things are terrible now when like they were
Speaker 2: better like thirty years ago or even twenty years ago. Man,
Speaker 2: I mean, like even I remember even here, we're like
Speaker 2: people on the people here like hated Bush forty three,
Speaker 2: like I think Busch twenty three was like a very
Speaker 2: bad guy, but I don't know how like Norman's getting
Speaker 2: like excitedly like angry with them. He was kind of
Speaker 2: like a cipher. But even so, I remember, like it's
Speaker 2: saying like the Iraq war is like really fucked up,
Speaker 2: and people be like, hey, don't you say that? Man?
Speaker 2: You know you remember like people spitting on troops coming
Speaker 2: back from No, you don't criticize this when we're at war,
Speaker 2: and like what are you talking about? You know, it's
Speaker 2: like now we can't like say that, like this is
Speaker 2: fucked up, Like but that's that's the way people were, man.
Speaker 2: You know, don't you remember knowing the eleven motherfucker like that?
Speaker 2: That's kinda still okay, like out and about I mean,
Speaker 2: not like internet idiots.
Speaker 3: So that's that's another like today, yeah, that that sort
Speaker 3: of like support the troops, you know, cult the nine
Speaker 3: to eleven type stuff, and you know, Israel is based
Speaker 3: because they fight the Commis, and and then Israel is
Speaker 3: based because they fight the Muslims, and nobody believes that anymore.
Speaker 3: It's been proven in real time that those A that
Speaker 3: those ventures were not legitimate and b that they fail.
Speaker 3: Ukraine is the best example. That's a you know, a
Speaker 3: Zionist American imperialist war that that failed in real time,
Speaker 3: and you can't even hide it anymore. You can't even
Speaker 3: say that, uh, you know, you Ukraine's going to win.
Speaker 3: And they're this like you know, for our guys, is
Speaker 3: like based white country or kind of for the mainstream
Speaker 3: that they're this you know, small nation that was unfairly attacked.
Speaker 3: You can say, you know, all you can say now
Speaker 3: is that, uh, you know, the the Ukrainians are foolish
Speaker 3: and they made the wrong choice. And there there is
Speaker 3: that other meme that Zelenski joins the Hall of American
Speaker 3: Allies up in heaven. Did people see right through this stuff?
Speaker 2: Well it's also too I mean I make the point
Speaker 2: to people and especially I mean guys were supposedly like
Speaker 2: on our side, although like I questioned that a lot.
Speaker 2: There's not like this isn't nineteen eighty. There's not like
Speaker 2: it's not like two basic like forms of government that
Speaker 2: dominate and then like a dozen kind of like minor
Speaker 2: like iterations. There's only like one form of government, you know,
Speaker 2: like despite what the say it says about like Russia,
Speaker 2: like Russia is organized basically exactly like America is. It's
Speaker 2: got like different political values obviously, but there's not there's
Speaker 2: not like this mass diversity of like forms of government.
Speaker 2: There's like one form of government and that's it. Okay,
Speaker 2: Like globalism changed everything. The Cold War was that like
Speaker 2: the war to decide like what form globalism would take it.
Speaker 2: So like people talking about like well the left is
Speaker 2: gonna win, It's like there's not like a left anymore.
Speaker 2: There's not like a right anymore, like not in like
Speaker 2: official them. I mean, that's not the way things work.
Speaker 2: You know, like you're either like four in the regime
Speaker 2: or you're against it. Like right wing people are against it, okay,
Speaker 2: Like Russia is against it, China's against it, Daryl Islam
Speaker 2: is against it. There's like outliers like Syria that yeah
Speaker 2: they're part of Daryl Islam, but like they're control group
Speaker 2: like like that, like as Christians and Alloyites. But I
Speaker 2: mean the point is that like if you're like, well,
Speaker 2: you're a dick because like you hate jd Vance because
Speaker 2: otherwise the left wing wins. It's like there's not a
Speaker 2: right and a left wing. It's not like that. I
Speaker 2: think Trump's important for historical reasons and psychological symbolic ones.
Speaker 2: But like even Trump, like he's not Trump's not this
Speaker 2: like ideological guy. He was gonna like you know, and
Speaker 2: if you don't vote for him, like you know, the
Speaker 2: left wing wins and then everything changes. It's this is
Speaker 2: not the eighties. That's not how it works. And I'm
Speaker 2: not just I I'm not just like dropping bullshit or
Speaker 2: like abstract like political theory knowledge and trying to make
Speaker 2: it trying to beat people over the head with it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's obvious, that's in practical terms, this
Speaker 2: is the way things are organized. So people got to
Speaker 2: drop this idea that like, you know, this is the
Speaker 2: West and these are sovereign countries and it's like the
Speaker 2: right wing traditional party versus like the labor radical party
Speaker 2: and we've got to stop them from winning votes or
Speaker 2: that changes the paradigm. That's not at all, that's not
Speaker 2: really true. That's thirty years that's that's that's thirty five
Speaker 2: years out of date.
Speaker 1: But I gotta I got a roll, So I appreciate
Speaker 1: the talk. Guys. Uh plugs yeah, Thomas plugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My Twitter got nuked, which is something that happens
Speaker 2: to us. So that's why you can't find me on Twitter.
Speaker 2: You can find me on substack real Thomas seven seven
Speaker 2: seven on subsec dot com. You can find me at
Speaker 2: my website number seven hm s seven seven seven dot com.
Speaker 2: I'm on tram on Instagram. I'm gonna start doing more
Speaker 2: like podcasting and more video stuff and try and fuck
Speaker 2: with social media less frankly, like I need a break anyway,
Speaker 2: But that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1: Arthur, you got anything to plug except what do you got?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actually I'm on Twitter and subsec as well. Actually,
Speaker 3: if you subscribe to Thomas as subsec, I'm one of
Speaker 3: his recommended journals. I don't have a lot on there
Speaker 3: right now, but I'm working on so if you'll see
Speaker 3: more stuff in the coming weeks and months, follow me
Speaker 3: on Twitter as well. Arthur Underscore Rombau same way it's
Speaker 3: spelled on screen three.
Speaker 1: That's me.
Speaker 3: Find me on YouTube again, Arthur Rombou. Like I said,
Speaker 3: I don't have a ton at the moment, but I
Speaker 3: definitely have more coming down the pipeline and you can.
Speaker 1: You can come hang out with Arthur in my in
Speaker 1: my chat on my Sunday live.
Speaker 3: Streams and I'm usually there as well.
Speaker 1: All right, gentlemen, preciate it. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Thanks Pete.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peganana Show.
Speaker 1: It's been a while, Thomas, how you been.
Speaker 2: I've been well man. Yeah, thanks for hosting me. I
Speaker 2: was singing with that the other day, like it really
Speaker 2: has been a minute, and that's my fault. I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody's busy, but it was my poll for canceling on
Speaker 2: our slated movie review episode, and I do apologize both
Speaker 2: of you and the subs. But yeah, I've been well man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should jump on that this week. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about it later. Well, we were gonna I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you to finish up Gladio today or you know,
Speaker 1: part three. But there was a there was a tweet
Speaker 1: you put out this morning. It was a series of
Speaker 1: stuff and basically somebody had put out that too few
Speaker 1: dissidents appreciate the fact that Russia has its own Zionist
Speaker 1: occupied government. And I'll, uh, let me just share this
Speaker 1: real quick because it's probably the easiest way to to
Speaker 1: put what you wrote there. And you wrote Moscow's literally
Speaker 1: at war with Israel. Nobody that I know claims some
Speaker 1: wonderful government is situated in Moscow. But the idea that
Speaker 1: it's some franchise branch of the identical regime that is
Speaker 1: situated in Washington as asinine. People who believe this or not.
Speaker 1: In the game, you said, there are descendants of the
Speaker 1: same guys who claimed breshn F's USSR was Jewish as
Speaker 1: Moscow was deploying nuclear weapons to the port of Alexandria
Speaker 1: to fire at Tel Aviv, and you went, you went
Speaker 1: on and on here, So what is making what would
Speaker 1: make people think this? It just doesn't you know. Somebody
Speaker 1: posted pictures like, oh, there was a picture of Putin
Speaker 1: with a yamaka on and he was talking to Jewish people,
Speaker 1: and he passed a law that you're not allowed to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, beat up Jewish people, because yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what you would want, right if you want
Speaker 1: ordering your country, you just want people running around beating
Speaker 1: people up for absolutely no fucking reason. I've had some
Speaker 1: Pagans come at me about this, saying, look at all
Speaker 1: these laws that the Roman Republican the Empire had where
Speaker 1: it was, you know, they were like, you can't do
Speaker 1: this to Jews, and you can't see that, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you don't want people running around fucking killing people in
Speaker 1: the streets, these stupid scumbags. So what's leading to this?
Speaker 2: What is this? Well, it's different things anyway, like whatever,
Speaker 2: whether whether there's a good government or a bad one
Speaker 2: situated in Moscow, whether it's like a left wing government
Speaker 2: or a right wing government, whether it's autocratic or not,
Speaker 2: and whether it's truly accountable, you know, whether it's truly
Speaker 2: guarding you know, the Russian culture as you know, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like the first culture within the federation and nationalities,
Speaker 2: like none of that's that's a different question. This idea
Speaker 2: that there's some kind of Zionist cadre that runs Russian
Speaker 2: and executive capacity and that everything it does is some
Speaker 2: like super complicated ledgerd main Like that's idiotic. I think
Speaker 2: it's two things. There's people who don't really understand politics,
Speaker 2: like they don't. So the fact that like Putin and
Speaker 2: Labra don't like punched the air every morning and like
Speaker 2: call for death to Israel, and the fact that you
Speaker 2: know they maintain at least the appearance of like marginal
Speaker 2: league good offices that's called in the traditional diplomatic circles.
Speaker 2: Of Israel. These people are so like literal minded they
Speaker 2: can't grasp. But that's just how you do things, you know,
Speaker 2: like you you maintain an appearance of basic stability, even
Speaker 2: even among your even even when you're dealing with your enemies,
Speaker 2: perhaps in particularly when you're dealing with your enemies and
Speaker 2: in public capacities, like maybe I think there's the review
Speaker 2: someone warped, like America having a state department that literally
Speaker 2: goes around insulting people and saying crazy things. That's really
Speaker 2: really really weird, and nobody does that. Only America does that.
Speaker 2: Everybody else they put on a front of a you
Speaker 2: know kind of like amicable diplomacy, like even when that's
Speaker 2: you know, not really on the table. Secondly, there's people
Speaker 2: who don't really understand Jewish power. It's just some kind
Speaker 2: of like stand in for like the bad guy or something,
Speaker 2: or like any any government that's all, but it all
Speaker 2: copies by any you know, by by by any faction
Speaker 2: or element that's you know, kind of like hostile to
Speaker 2: the organic communitarian impulse of that country. Like they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: they's automatically Jewish, Like I think I think it's those things.
Speaker 2: It's also going back I mean, the reason why, the
Speaker 2: reason why people like Francis Yacki and like Kndye McGinley
Speaker 2: and like James Hardsung Metal the reason why kind of
Speaker 2: at the heart of uh or at the at the
Speaker 2: peak of the the kind of Eisenhower era, they were
Speaker 2: making a big deal about, you know, the the Doctor's plot,
Speaker 2: which was obviously like a show trial for the benefit
Speaker 2: of kind of like the lesser Soviets and non and
Speaker 2: like and like Nomenclantera, who were like increasingly dissatisfied with
Speaker 2: you know, kind of the way things were going. I mean,
Speaker 2: I there's a real like weariness to the staleism, like
Speaker 2: at this point, obviously they were signaling without saying it,
Speaker 2: like look, we're purging the Party of this element, that
Speaker 2: element being you know, self identified Jews, who you know
Speaker 2: very much are kind of following their own tendency and well,
Speaker 2: you know, in within the political fut of the Eastern Bloc.
Speaker 2: But I mean people can't subsequently, people would say stuff
Speaker 2: like Oyaki's a Jewish apologist or he's a quote communist,
Speaker 2: Like they can't get their mind around the nuances of
Speaker 2: these things. So I think it's like, oh, that's stuff
Speaker 2: I mean, I I have guys tell me there's literally
Speaker 2: a Zionist comedian who's ethnically cleansing Orthodox Christianity from Ukraine.
Speaker 2: He's waging a suicidal war like war against the Russians.
Speaker 2: There's people who tell me, like that guy is based
Speaker 2: in right wing and the Russians are evil, Like these
Speaker 2: people like beyond reason. They're really really, really really stupid,
Speaker 2: and they they're like the people who insist that like
Speaker 2: the CIA, like kill JFK. It's like this article of
Speaker 2: faith and like no matter what, they just like can't
Speaker 2: let it go. It's like they're like committed to it,
Speaker 2: like some people are committed to their religious faith or something.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know, but you know, and it
Speaker 2: doesn't you know, if you don't understand, if you don't
Speaker 2: understand the the enmity between between Russia and and zionis,
Speaker 2: you don't understand the final phase of the Cold War,
Speaker 2: and you know, you don't understand basically everything that's happened
Speaker 2: in parapletical terms, really the last really since nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: You know, so you're just like not in the game,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, if people want to pretend that
Speaker 2: like you know, if you want to pretend that, like
Speaker 2: the Russians aren't at war with Israel because like later
Speaker 2: proven like later Reef at some Holocaust memorial. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say about that, but I
Speaker 2: mean those like I said, it's like it's like trying
Speaker 2: to argue with some like little kid about I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't even know what, but it's like it's like
Speaker 2: a waste of everybody's time. It's just that when that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff becomes insinuated, occasionally I feel like shooting
Speaker 2: it down because it's like so like off base. And
Speaker 2: again there's people who I don't really take a strong
Speaker 2: interest in what anybody else does, and there's the content
Speaker 2: unless they're my friends or unless I find it worthwhile.
Speaker 2: And those are narrow categories, both of them. But NATO
Speaker 2: and Israel being at war with Russia, like literally at
Speaker 2: war with Russia. That's the key development and high politics
Speaker 2: that people must be watching right now. And the outcome
Speaker 2: of this conflict cycle is gonna profound applications for the
Speaker 2: rest of the century and by mid century. Like I'm
Speaker 2: always saying, i I'm not some kind of augur and
Speaker 2: I think strategic forecasting is as a discipline. It's not
Speaker 2: unlike these guys who claim to be like macro econ gurus,
Speaker 2: Like most of those guys just don't know what they're
Speaker 2: talking about, and if they do, they're they're basically shills anyway,
Speaker 2: because they're not. You got to treat it, like Schumpeter said, basically,
Speaker 2: you know. And on the economic side. One of the
Speaker 2: reasons he didn't oppose economic modeling. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: a heterodox economist, but he wasn't like Avonnesian. He opposed
Speaker 2: the economic modeling because he's like, basically, you need to
Speaker 2: look at like two to three century like increments, and
Speaker 2: you need to you know, you need to you need
Speaker 2: to code the data they're in, you know, and then
Speaker 2: and then you can get like a conceptual picture about
Speaker 2: like what's happening, like you can't. But but like no,
Speaker 2: if you nobody, that doesn't work. And like they in
Speaker 2: I mean his era, he was talking about this, I
Speaker 2: kind of the right of the advent that like television,
Speaker 2: it like that you can't talk about econ policy and
Speaker 2: like actual ters in the ear of television, all you
Speaker 2: can talk about is really like the last administration or
Speaker 2: like the last like fiscal season in terms of budgetary
Speaker 2: or on public spending. You know, so trumpeters like, no,
Speaker 2: just nobody's this is all going to get crowded out
Speaker 2: by these guys who claim like, oh no, this is
Speaker 2: this is the I you know, modeling like the last
Speaker 2: five years of you know, this is why this is
Speaker 2: what quantity of easing actually isn't you know, like a
Speaker 2: bad thing or whatever, Like it's it's nonsense. So forgive
Speaker 2: me for going on the analogy tangent. But if you
Speaker 2: want to really, if you want to understand, like the
Speaker 2: post Cold War conflict cycle, which I said it kicked
Speaker 2: off really in earnest in nineteen ninety nine, that's only
Speaker 2: going to be fully realized by mid century, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: and kind of the great the great power paradigm is
Speaker 2: gonna Central Asia is going to be the pre emory battlespace,
Speaker 2: but it's gonna be very fluid in like the United States,
Speaker 2: the Russian Federation, the PRC, Turkey to a lesser degree,
Speaker 2: I Ran and also Syria is gonna play a role
Speaker 2: in that because Syria and Iran, I've got to be
Speaker 2: looked at as like a common actor and in military
Speaker 2: matters Kazakhstan is gonna play a huge role, although not
Speaker 2: like a military one. You know that that's that's the
Speaker 2: way you've got to look at these developments. But you know,
Speaker 2: the issue too with Russian enmity towards you know, towards
Speaker 2: Jews and and vice versa. I mean that you've gotta
Speaker 2: this pre seed, this predates the Soviet Union, and we
Speaker 2: got into this and some of our earlier content. I'll
Speaker 2: dive into that again for context if the thing that's appropriate.
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know why people they can't
Speaker 2: get through their head that you know that that that
Speaker 2: Russia is not some like in a state or something like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's because they're ignorant. It's because
Speaker 2: they don't. But these guys also and one of the
Speaker 2: reasons why and I'm sure everythings I'm an incordible snob
Speaker 2: or just like some kind of like nasty OLII. You know,
Speaker 2: there is always pointing out that like we're the one percent,
Speaker 2: like almost nobody can actually understand politics like not. It's
Speaker 2: so like mysterious, it's like present like intelligence. It's like
Speaker 2: either you can like get these things or you don't.
Speaker 2: You know, either you've got either you've got an aptitude
Speaker 2: for discerning the kind of configurations of power at scale,
Speaker 2: and you understand like what inputs like should be coded
Speaker 2: in order to kind of predict the outcomes and understand
Speaker 2: phenomena like as it's underway or like you don't okay,
Speaker 2: and like probably the only majority these guys playing be
Speaker 2: right wing. They have no idea they have they have
Speaker 2: no idea about any of these things. They just they
Speaker 2: don't like immigration and like, and don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: like that's not that's not misplaced or something. But I
Speaker 2: mean nobody the immigration is never popular. Nobody likes immigration
Speaker 2: except for ideologues or a hostile to the to the
Speaker 2: state in question. They're not the state, but like I'm
Speaker 2: in the nation in question that's available to these this
Speaker 2: kind of state social engineering. They just like don't like immigration.
Speaker 2: They don't like the irs, you know, like they've got
Speaker 2: you know, they don't like what they look at is
Speaker 2: like cultural degeneracy, I mean, which in reality is like
Speaker 2: a social engineering regimen.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But like they don't they don't get any of this stuff.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why like they get mad at me and they're like,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna subscribe to anymore because why don't you
Speaker 2: tell like it we'd jokes and like blood because man,
Speaker 2: like you're not in the game. This is not this
Speaker 2: is not the Illinois Republican Party or it's not like
Speaker 2: the It's not like the it's not like the Chicago
Speaker 2: like white nationalists like Grieven's platform or something, you know. Like,
Speaker 2: I see what I see and I canclude, I can include.
Speaker 2: It's not some like platform or something, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I have my own like prejudices, I have my own
Speaker 2: There's there's things I'd like to see developed. I've got
Speaker 2: my own ideas on what like good government would constitute.
Speaker 2: But it's not That's not what I'm doing, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, And so yeah, I think it's that I
Speaker 2: don't know and createzy you have like no more tolerance
Speaker 2: for these people. I don't. I'm not planning to go
Speaker 2: anywhere anytime soon, like like in terms of like being unalive,
Speaker 2: but you never know. And uh, there's more time behind
Speaker 2: me than in front of me. I'm not trying any
Speaker 2: more of it. I'm just like realistic about this. I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna spend the time I've left like arguing with idiots.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not gonna spend time I've left like
Speaker 2: like like trying to like wake up randoms and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be doing that anyway, but you know, so I don't.
Speaker 2: I just don't like fuck with people like this, you know,
Speaker 2: like they're not part of my.
Speaker 3: World, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the It almost seems like they have this
Speaker 1: very simplistic view of politics because they look at the
Speaker 1: West and they see that the West is completely occupied.
Speaker 1: So basically all the governments are have the same message.
Speaker 1: And then they look at something like Ukraine and Russia
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, they must have the same message too,
Speaker 1: because at least part of them is in Europe. And
Speaker 1: then well, what so Israel is at war with itself
Speaker 1: in Syria. Israel is at war with itself in Hesbal,
Speaker 1: with Hesbela because Iran is Iran is supporting Hesbela, and
Speaker 1: Iran gets a lot of their a lot of their
Speaker 1: missiles and weapons from Russia. So what Israel is just
Speaker 1: fighting itself is that? Like is that what the you know,
Speaker 1: what they call the kosher sandwich. The kosher sandwich is
Speaker 1: them killing themselves so that they can be on both
Speaker 1: sides of it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't. Like I said, it's not some
Speaker 2: thought out thing. It's just and most of these people are,
Speaker 2: they're just it's a it's a thing, bumper sticker catchphrases
Speaker 2: and a constellation of like personal prejudices and anxieties and
Speaker 2: just a goofy stuff that you know, they they they
Speaker 2: picked up because I got, you know, some some crazy
Speaker 2: girlfriend or wife who like repeats dumb things. He's an
Speaker 2: entertainment and they get mad about that, you know, Like
Speaker 2: I said, it's not it's I don't know what they like.
Speaker 2: They don't think, you know, And it's also too like
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, on the one hand, I was
Speaker 2: making the point that like they quote red pill metaphors
Speaker 2: idiotic and and even if it weren't like we're not
Speaker 2: Joel lost means megature, it's we're not going door to
Speaker 2: door to like red pill people. It's fucking retarded. I mean,
Speaker 2: I would we wouldn't be doing that anyway. But like
Speaker 2: conceptually it's retarded, but you know, it's not. It's not
Speaker 2: complicated to recognize that the regime and anybody who serves
Speaker 2: it is not your friend, and like these are your ops.
Speaker 2: Like that's that's not complicated, but something like the nature
Speaker 2: of Jewish power. There's like nuances to it. There's dynamics, psychological, sociological,
Speaker 2: you know, to how human populations relate at scale. You know,
Speaker 2: there's historical memory and kind of the way it the
Speaker 2: way it presents itself only to a combination of you know,
Speaker 2: like enduring conceptual prejudice and and kind of like myth
Speaker 2: making within you know, insular cultures. Like that makes a difference.
Speaker 2: And also like the culture in question, to what degree
Speaker 2: they have a basically collectivist understanding or instinct towards like
Speaker 2: collective memory, and to what degree you know there that's
Speaker 2: not present. You know, like some culture are highly individualistic
Speaker 2: despite also being like very very kind of like cognizant
Speaker 2: of of friend any paradigms, like all this stuff are
Speaker 2: very complicated, okay, And and then like on top of it,
Speaker 2: like uh, Zionism itself is something of a house divided,
Speaker 2: you know. It's like you've got to like you've got
Speaker 2: to like account for that too, Like there's people kind
Speaker 2: of within the that there's people within the same you
Speaker 2: know kind of like ethnic and political and sociological constellation.
Speaker 2: Or nevertheless, like at each other's throats, you know, and
Speaker 2: like that that that leads to like strange outcomes. It's
Speaker 2: like all of these things, you know, so you can't
Speaker 2: just and I mean finally at the end of the
Speaker 2: day again it's just I don't you know it. Uh,
Speaker 2: that reminds me. It's almost the it's almost the converse
Speaker 2: of these these dummy these truly like ignorant people who
Speaker 2: think that like Donald Trump is like is doing things
Speaker 2: to them personally. But they think that like they think
Speaker 2: that like Holy Rollers and like anti abortion activists are
Speaker 2: are going to like send them to like camps or something.
Speaker 2: What that means. You know, there's some of these people
Speaker 2: who think they literally think that like Jews are like
Speaker 2: some kind of like sorcerers or something, and like they
Speaker 2: literally control everything on this planet. You know, like uh
Speaker 2: like the Man behind the Curtain and the Land of
Speaker 2: Oz or something like that. Mean funny, but I'm not
Speaker 2: really being funny. It's literally the way they think about it,
Speaker 2: you know, Like, uh, like if you wake up in
Speaker 2: the morning you have to take a piss. It's because
Speaker 2: like there's like some Jewish guys somewhere who like programed
Speaker 2: they into your brain by way of like a chemtrail
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: They're they're bigger Zionists. They're bigger Zionist inventionment. Yah.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because to them, like Jews are just like
Speaker 2: there's like this all powerful like force. Like I mean,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, there's it is. It's really strange
Speaker 2: in absolute terms, within it in twenty within the paradigm
Speaker 2: of the twentieth century, it makes it actually makes perfect
Speaker 2: sense that like Zionist would capture this kind of like
Speaker 2: outside as cloud. Okay, particularly in America, that shouldn't surprise anybody,
Speaker 2: especially when you consider the you know, certain certain military
Speaker 2: and strategic factors that kind of like rendered a perfect storm.
Speaker 2: But that's why like I'm always talking about like Hannah
Speaker 2: Arentz book, because I mean she that that's her whole point,
Speaker 2: you know, like there's nothing that this shouldn't like come
Speaker 2: to surprise anybody that these dynamics are present and that
Speaker 2: they ended in like real tragedy. I mean, there's not
Speaker 2: going tragedy like born of of this, but it uh yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's but like I said, I don't
Speaker 2: I my time is valuable to me and and plus
Speaker 2: like I don't like what do I what do I
Speaker 2: care what these people think? You know, they're not in
Speaker 2: the game. Like basically it's sometime it's another show because
Speaker 2: it's like I mean that this you know itself is complicated,
Speaker 2: but you knows of all, like we're not we're not
Speaker 2: or I'm not I'm not running for office, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to like build some party. I definitely have
Speaker 2: a practical vision of what my people should be doing,
Speaker 2: and we're doing it like literally, like every day, this
Speaker 2: is the way I live my life, and thousands of
Speaker 2: others live their lives who I am indexed with this
Speaker 2: as well under way, but uh, you know, I uh
Speaker 2: we're a vanguard tendency because we're shifting the conceptual perspective
Speaker 2: and more partly clarifying it for you know, the one
Speaker 2: percent who will follow us, you know, and that's what's
Speaker 2: going to dictate, you know, the way forward for our people.
Speaker 2: You know. It's not like somehow incorporating you know, like
Speaker 2: quote unquote based ideas into like the Republican or the
Speaker 2: Democrat party platform. Like it's not you're you're you're you're
Speaker 2: asleep at the wheel if you think that, or you're
Speaker 2: like mentally or you're mentally dead, like there's nothing to
Speaker 2: do with what we're doing. And even if that's not
Speaker 2: even possible anymore, you know, like that's that's totally backwards looking,
Speaker 2: that's totally stunted thinking. That's just not the way things are.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people also can't come to terms
Speaker 2: with globalism or they just like don't understand it, like
Speaker 2: even even aside from the the design of stuff, and
Speaker 2: you know, they're kind of gross and misconceptions they're in.
Speaker 2: Like people this idea that the world's like forever like
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty or something. You know, like there's like this
Speaker 2: firm border in America and that it's just been compromised
Speaker 2: and it's like letting in bad people or that like
Speaker 2: there's this thing called the West where it's like clearly
Speaker 2: defined and you know, like the nation state remains king,
Speaker 2: and you know, you've just got to like reverse the
Speaker 2: lever on policy and there'll be some kind of like
Speaker 2: it's some kind of like opper what back like times
Speaker 2: a million, like you know, and if you get like
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and that don't even wrong. I like Trump.
Speaker 2: I'm not like saying he's people shouldn't like him, But
Speaker 2: the other idea he's gonna be like Eisenhower and he's
Speaker 2: just gonna like deport like eighty million people or like
Speaker 2: that's not even conceivable anymore, Okay, Like the state is dead,
Speaker 2: like the Nermer system is collapsing around you. It's gonna
Speaker 2: take about another like century and a half, but it's
Speaker 2: like really kind of an earnest like and probably and
Speaker 2: probably like another like centric probably like two to three
Speaker 2: hundred years like that. That's memory who won't exist anymore.
Speaker 2: But it's like collapsing all around you, like conceptually as
Speaker 2: well as like physically, like the way people think about
Speaker 2: like law and order and law enforcement like that, that's
Speaker 2: that's going away. Like all kinds of all kinds of
Speaker 2: things of a profound sociological character are happening, and people
Speaker 2: like can't they like like it doesn't compute, like they
Speaker 2: can't like understand it or someth thing. You know. So
Speaker 2: there's that too, you know, to understand like the earlier issue,
Speaker 2: like understand understand like Zionist power and understand like why
Speaker 2: it's slipping right now, and understand kind of like why
Speaker 2: it was able to insinuate itself into policy corridors and
Speaker 2: and such like a it's such like a domineering way.
Speaker 2: Like you've got to understand the Cold War. Understand the
Speaker 2: Cold War. You got to understand what you understand Nerve
Speaker 2: understand Nurmer. You got to understand like why World War
Speaker 2: two is fought, you know, like understand that. You've got
Speaker 2: to understand like you know, the Westphalian system and how
Speaker 2: a combination of and how a combination of of conceptual
Speaker 2: as well as like material factors. You know, like like
Speaker 2: you know, just destroyed institutions like the Holy Roman Empire
Speaker 2: and like rendered in so that there couldn't be like
Speaker 2: a nothing like a like a Western Caliphate, which was
Speaker 2: the way things were going, you know, not none terms
Speaker 2: like Islam in the West. I mean like the Roman
Speaker 2: Church basically was like heading that way. It's not some
Speaker 2: trashing Catholics. It's not any trashing Catholicism. But you know,
Speaker 2: like a thirty years war like change everything. So when
Speaker 2: you see like unless you truly like understand these things,
Speaker 2: you don't really understand what's going on right now, you know,
Speaker 2: and you don't and like I said, the I'm rambling
Speaker 2: at it, but you know, the the system wheel of
Speaker 2: under is is dying at death by a thousand proverbial cuts.
Speaker 2: It's just, uh, it's just gonna be a slow thing.
Speaker 2: But it's already well under way. It's not gonna there's
Speaker 2: not gonna be like a November ninth, like nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: nine moment where like everything like collapses and like it's
Speaker 2: no longer you know there, there's there's like no longer
Speaker 2: like a functioning like uh like like regime government, Like
Speaker 2: that's not gonna happen, you know for a lot. It's
Speaker 2: it's like rubber eysed against that. But it's also like
Speaker 2: America's unique both and like its size and and certain
Speaker 2: other factors, and it's kind of like you know the
Speaker 2: way there's still like there's still like localized like power
Speaker 2: bases and things like that in a way that like
Speaker 2: would be unthinkable in other countries. Like America is still
Speaker 2: even though a lot of it's like a Potemkin village,
Speaker 2: America still is like hugely rich compared to like everybody else.
Speaker 2: So I mean, like it you can you can you
Speaker 2: can solve a lot of problems and money, or at
Speaker 2: least you can like staple off like a lot of
Speaker 2: problems if you can like buy people off basically, and
Speaker 2: there's like a lot of that going on right now
Speaker 2: and that's going to continue. Okay, don't like things.
Speaker 1: Like that, so switch gears a little bit. Our friend
Speaker 1: Darryl Cooper was on the biggest podcast in the world
Speaker 1: last week and uh echoed some, uh some of your
Speaker 1: talking points, and through that he went he I think
Speaker 1: doubled his subscribership on on sub stack, which was already substantial. Uh,
Speaker 1: Darryl has Daryl has tens of thousands of paid subscribers
Speaker 1: on the sub stack, and I don't think these are
Speaker 1: all paid, but you know, his subscription just went through
Speaker 1: the roof, and I don't know what did Uh. What
Speaker 1: do you think about hearing uh, hearing some of the
Speaker 1: things that you've been talking about for decades reaching millions
Speaker 1: of people.
Speaker 2: It's kind of wild. I mean it's kind of wild.
Speaker 2: I don't follow her content heavidly, Like I know who
Speaker 2: she is, but that's about it. Like when Cannas Owens
Speaker 2: like retreated the other week. Yeah, and then I started
Speaker 2: having people. I mean, this happened some before, but like
Speaker 2: people like recognize me on the street a bunch now
Speaker 2: and it's not me cheesing cloud. I don't do that.
Speaker 2: I okay, not like doing it at all. I'm just
Speaker 2: telling you literally, like people on the street now like
Speaker 2: come up to me and they know who I am,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of wild. It's it's kind of wild.
Speaker 2: I mean, murder Made seems like a good dude. I
Speaker 2: don't know him, you know I And it's totally fine
Speaker 2: because I'm not like a cloud chaser. If people if
Speaker 2: people repeat things I say, that's totally fine. I if
Speaker 2: they don't credit me, I'd be salty if I'd be
Speaker 2: salty if somebody was publishing stuff I wrote and claiming
Speaker 2: it was theirs, or I'd be salty if somebody literally
Speaker 2: like took like if they literally told one of my
Speaker 2: pot episodes or something like that and dropped what amounts
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of like a heterodox theory on
Speaker 2: the war or something, and it's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: like this is my this, this is my conclusion. That
Speaker 2: makes me very salty. But I mean, I don't I
Speaker 2: don't expect people like murder Made to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is what this guy said. I mean, you know
Speaker 2: that's not I mean, gon'na be corny. But it's also
Speaker 2: like it's not nobody's trying to take try to for
Speaker 2: things or or put shade on me by doing that.
Speaker 2: But it's it's it's a lot to get used to, man,
Speaker 2: you know. But I mean, don't get me wrong, like
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly blessed. I you know, I I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, like life is strange, man, but I did
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be like more bitter like
Speaker 2: or at like like I had such a bad time
Speaker 2: early on. I had a lot of advantages, but the
Speaker 2: first half of my life, like adult life, it was
Speaker 2: kind of rough, man like, and I mean a lot
Speaker 2: of that was like my fault and some of it wasn't,
Speaker 2: but a lot of it was. And at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, you know, like how how you manage
Speaker 2: things is it is on you, you know, and like
Speaker 2: I mean, tragedy is gonna happen and you're like you're
Speaker 2: gonna experience horror. And I didn't handle a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff real well, and I ended up in a
Speaker 2: really really food our place. It's like I can't it's
Speaker 2: like incredible, like in in a fucked up way. However,
Speaker 2: I never wanted to kill myself, man, like, not just
Speaker 2: because I think I got every strong survivor's instinct, like
Speaker 2: like legit, like I do. I think I'm literally hard
Speaker 2: to kill, Okay, not like I'm tough. I'm not like
Speaker 2: any kind of fire or anything. I mean, like because
Speaker 2: he allows me in spiritual am hard to kill. Okay.
Speaker 2: But I in the back of my mind, even when
Speaker 2: things are really bad, like like really bad, you know,
Speaker 2: like I was like holmeless and stuff, I thought to myself,
Speaker 2: like if I only hang on and find a way
Speaker 2: out of this like fucked up thing, you know, like
Speaker 2: like get a handle on on my addiction and get
Speaker 2: well and get out of this kind of paradigm of
Speaker 2: like of like violence of all kinds you know, like physical,
Speaker 2: like spiritual and everything else. Like I can probably like
Speaker 2: make something of myself, you know, by through like my
Speaker 2: writing specifically, you know. And other times I thought like, well,
Speaker 2: that's stupid, you know, that's it's way too wait for that.
Speaker 2: But you know, I figured, then, well, it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: at least it's like a cop people I care about,
Speaker 2: and they've got like reams of stuff I wrote, so
Speaker 2: like if I die, like they'll they'll be there for posterity.
Speaker 2: And then like in the future arena it's only like,
Speaker 2: you know, something like five guys or ten guys and
Speaker 2: girls who like read something I wrote, and they're the
Speaker 2: right kind of people, like they'll like carry that with
Speaker 2: them and you know, maybe that'll have like a positive impact.
Speaker 2: And especially because I don't have children, which is totally fine.
Speaker 2: I'm only find being like a Chase sold in the apocalypse.
Speaker 2: But this does make a difference if you're not like
Speaker 2: a father, you know too, like, well, gee, what I
Speaker 2: want to leave something behind men. But yeah, there was
Speaker 2: a little bit personal man like forgive me for that.
Speaker 2: But uh, that's I I appreciate that people find my
Speaker 2: content worthwhile. And you know, like I said, it's uh,
Speaker 2: I think myself first and foremost as a political theorist
Speaker 2: and historical revisionist. But I also think I have something
Speaker 2: to convey to people about the human condition, you know,
Speaker 2: not because I'm so smart or so like moral. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a depray of center, like of the worst sort,
Speaker 2: like every man is every man and woman is. But
Speaker 2: I I do think I have something to convey to
Speaker 2: people that you know, in their own lives and especially
Speaker 2: considering where like our people are situated at this like
Speaker 2: you know, historical and epoch where I mean in some ways,
Speaker 2: in some ways there's like plenty everywhere. In other ways
Speaker 2: we really like like a devil is really winning, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's perilous. It's hard to survive, especially for young people.
Speaker 2: You know. I'm not I'm not I'm a sole survivor
Speaker 2: out of my like little poetterie. Okay, I mean that
Speaker 2: I try have to dwell on that. I'm not afraid
Speaker 2: of dying. But there there's things implicit in what I
Speaker 2: just said that they're kind of fucked up and like
Speaker 2: I don't like to think about it, but I you know,
Speaker 2: I don't. The young people today, I think are a
Speaker 2: lot more squared away than was my generation, but it's
Speaker 2: still like not easy to survive, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: really hard being young, so especially I'm hoping that I
Speaker 2: can convey some of that stuff. But yeah, that's again,
Speaker 2: forget that probably got kind of personal and like rambly,
Speaker 2: so like, forgive me for the no problem.
Speaker 1: You've said that you don't believe that the there's going
Speaker 1: to be an election this year. What does that look
Speaker 1: like to you?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I dropped like a short take this morning
Speaker 2: on on Twitter. This uh proposed uh ceasefire agreement pergazo.
Speaker 2: You know, c i A has formally like it's emerging
Speaker 2: from CIA, which is really unprecedented, and.
Speaker 1: That's never happened before, right, because I was talking to
Speaker 1: my wife about that, where you know, you have so
Speaker 1: many questions. It's like, Okay, the CIA is proposing a
Speaker 1: peace plan. It's like, oh wait a minute, that's not
Speaker 1: the State Department, that's not the executive When the hell
Speaker 1: has this ever happened before? Who's in charge?
Speaker 2: It hasn't, It hasn't. So what I think is the
Speaker 2: deep state is trying to extricate any impression that like
Speaker 2: Missus Harris, or rather the regime that she at least
Speaker 2: technically still serves it is like involved in this, like
Speaker 2: they're they're they're not going to let her like grab
Speaker 2: clout in that way. Okay, And that suggest to me
Speaker 2: that they may be a bandon here. Okay. I still
Speaker 2: maintain like there's not going to be like an election
Speaker 2: in precedented terms if Missus Harris totally fucks this up
Speaker 2: and there is like a deal hashed out in a
Speaker 2: perbial smoke filled room between Peter Thiel and and you know,
Speaker 2: Missus Harris is uh like Wall Street friends and whoever else,
Speaker 2: and they just like decide to give it to Trump
Speaker 2: like there's still not going to be an election. You know,
Speaker 2: that'll just mean that Trump gets the nod. And I think,
Speaker 2: like a dear friend, Jay Burden pointed this out, and
Speaker 2: so did uh, so did my other my other buddy.
Speaker 2: Second of this, he's the latter. He's a guy who's
Speaker 2: been around. He's the guy like uh who like finangled
Speaker 2: the press pass and was able to like you know,
Speaker 2: subversively like get inside the d n C. But yeah,
Speaker 2: both me the point that you know Trump has on paper,
Speaker 2: Trump has a lot of assets. He does not have
Speaker 2: a lot of liquid capital. You know, it's not some
Speaker 2: bash on Trump, that's just reality. And you know, his
Speaker 2: war chest, uh what remained of it was depleted by
Speaker 2: like this like lawfair nonsense. And I mean a lot
Speaker 2: of these a lot of these complaints that were brought
Speaker 2: against him, like they were like laughable, you know, but
Speaker 2: at the point was I mean, they they were trying
Speaker 2: to you know, they were they were filed in jurisdictions
Speaker 2: where they wouldn't simply get laughed out of court. So
Speaker 2: I mean, even even if it only proceeded to like
Speaker 2: you know, preliminary stages that cost they cost money to
Speaker 2: fight that ship. You know. So like what I'm getting
Speaker 2: as that I don't think Trump has I don't I
Speaker 2: don't think Trump has any money, okay, and that makes
Speaker 2: him beholden the people. When you're beholden the people, you're
Speaker 2: no longer like a wild card variable, you know. And
Speaker 2: like I said, uh, Teal is a weird guy. I
Speaker 2: think I don't want to get into like an argument,
Speaker 2: not with you, but I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 2: rehash the Peter Teal thing, like whatever can be said
Speaker 2: about him, and like his character and stuff. He's not
Speaker 2: like a dummy, especially about money. He's not gonna be
Speaker 2: like pumping money into the Trump campaign for the sake
Speaker 2: of appearances or something, you know. So that's where I'm
Speaker 2: at with it. But I still don't believe that it's
Speaker 2: just gonna be this, you know. Okay, We're we're gonna
Speaker 2: return to, you know, having an election day where people
Speaker 2: you know, where we're like US citizen like present an
Speaker 2: ID on election day and then they cast a vote
Speaker 2: at a polling place, and then those votes are tallied
Speaker 2: and then at the conclusion of election day. You know,
Speaker 2: the man or the or the lady you who is
Speaker 2: telling the most votes of the president United States. That's
Speaker 2: never going to happen again, you know.
Speaker 1: So before we started recording, I was telling you about
Speaker 1: you probably saw this thing out of Springfield, Ohio. Basically
Speaker 1: a town fifty two thousand people, mostly white, and they
Speaker 1: just injected like twenty thousand Haitians into it at once.
Speaker 1: And I don't I don't want to sound like, Look,
Speaker 1: I would love to see a bunch of Mexicans go
Speaker 1: back to Mexico. But I deal with Mexicans all the time,
Speaker 1: and for the most part, we get along, no problem
Speaker 1: at all. I've lived around Haitians before in South Florida.
Speaker 1: This is a different breed of people. This is literally
Speaker 1: a government that was founded upon slaughtering white people, every
Speaker 1: white person on the island. And then they did a
Speaker 1: human sacrifice and asked a demon to bless them, and
Speaker 1: that's how their country was founded. There are reports that
Speaker 1: they're eating ducks out of parks, some woman ate some
Speaker 1: some was on the lawn somewhere eating someone's cat. These
Speaker 1: people historically are not should not be here, should not
Speaker 1: be around white people. The Domerican Republic shoots on site
Speaker 1: and they share an island. What the fuck do you
Speaker 1: do about this?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I met ground zero of the refugee invasion.
Speaker 2: Like you know, these refugees are are they're cartel guys,
Speaker 2: like cartel errand boys. They're like Venezuelan street dudes. You know,
Speaker 2: they're they're they're wackos from mental institutions. They're guys like
Speaker 2: literally like a price on their head or like on
Speaker 2: the run from like Honduras. It's a bunch of military
Speaker 2: age males who are like I mean, it's literally like
Speaker 2: an evasing force. Like one of these idiots was like
Speaker 2: squeezing off shots that like towards O block because he's
Speaker 2: trying to apparently like this went like viral on TikTok
Speaker 2: or something. It's like I said to the hood guys,
Speaker 2: there's gonna you know, this is a this is gonna
Speaker 2: cause a potentially like a bloodbath in terms of like
Speaker 2: gangster ship. And obviously the only the only point of
Speaker 2: the policy is an arco tyranny, like you don't and
Speaker 2: it's it's it's becoming increasing increasing like laid beer. Like
Speaker 2: it's just like why are they they're taking these like
Speaker 2: guys who've been like chased out of Pakistan, you know,
Speaker 2: like all military age males, and like dropping them in Ireland.
Speaker 2: Like why would they even occur to anybody? Like that
Speaker 2: literally doesn't make any sense. And even even by the
Speaker 2: internal kind of like perverses, it may be like logic
Speaker 2: of you know, kind of these un resolutions on unlike refugees,
Speaker 2: if you're a ref if you're a true refugee, you're
Speaker 2: required to apply for what do you call it amnesty
Speaker 2: or whatever? Not amnesty, but in the first likewecan say, stylum, sylum, Yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you. So there's guys from Pakistan just ending up
Speaker 2: in rural Ireland, I mean like that they're just got
Speaker 2: like they're gonna they're gonna boat lift a bunch of
Speaker 2: Haitians into like Alabama. I mean, like it's obvious what's
Speaker 2: going on here. I mean, and it's really the only
Speaker 2: the only way people are gonna be able to mitigate
Speaker 2: or remedy that until you know, the regime is forced
Speaker 2: to stop these things, and it will happen. But like
Speaker 2: I said, it maybe in real long process. You know,
Speaker 2: you've got you've got to think locally you absolutely have
Speaker 2: to think locally. And I'm not trying to sound corny,
Speaker 2: You're like it takes a village. Like what I mean
Speaker 2: is in practical terms, in common self defense terms, especially,
Speaker 2: okay and most especially, this cannot be ended enough. You've
Speaker 2: got to think locally. You've got to defend your own hood,
Speaker 2: you've got to defend your own family, you gotta defend
Speaker 2: your own community. And you know when our people come
Speaker 2: catch like punitive flag for this, whether in the former
Speaker 2: like law fair or a malicious prosecution, like we've got
Speaker 2: to show up to defend them to okay, in a
Speaker 2: broad front kind of way, you know, like socially pulit
Speaker 2: we legally every other way. I'm not gonna like fed
Speaker 2: speak or you know they go on a fed post thing,
Speaker 2: like you absolutely must do these things. And you know
Speaker 2: that's why, like I said, like I I'm always coming
Speaker 2: back to social capital and where we're we're accomplishing that.
Speaker 2: And every time I see that, there's like a there's
Speaker 2: like a bunch of like randos who like who send
Speaker 2: who send me like emails or DMS or something like
Speaker 2: like like I'm like I'm asking a felt job applications
Speaker 2: or something like it's now I'm talking about you don't
Speaker 2: get to like we're not we're not building some like
Speaker 2: community of beast people. And like it's not like going
Speaker 2: to chuck e cheese or something. You don't like get
Speaker 2: a ticket you can come to like you got to
Speaker 2: do this ship in your own orbit, in your own life,
Speaker 2: in your own locale. You know, it's not some paint
Speaker 2: my numbers thing. But at the same time, it's also
Speaker 2: should like naturally happen, you know, I mean five years ago,
Speaker 2: I didn't know any of you guys. Okay, Like now
Speaker 2: you're like my family now, like we have like we're
Speaker 2: literally like you know, tens of thousands strong. Like now
Speaker 2: like I do have an actual physical community that I'm
Speaker 2: gonna start spending a good part of the year in
Speaker 2: where there's like thousands of us who deliberately like took
Speaker 2: these measures. That's all you can do, Okay. And it's
Speaker 2: not like I don't mean that like some kind of
Speaker 2: minimal like like it's some kind of like minimum remedy
Speaker 2: like this is the this is the way out.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Don't fuck with regime stuff, don't index with it, don't
Speaker 2: legitimize it, don't type your finances with it. Don't don't
Speaker 2: become reliant on a job with it. You know, like
Speaker 2: you have got to quit all of this ship. And
Speaker 2: you can do it. Today there's a lot of capital
Speaker 2: looking for a place to go. It's very easy to
Speaker 2: raise money these days. It's very easy to stay connected
Speaker 2: with your peoples. Okay, if I can do it, anybody
Speaker 2: can do it. Okay. It's not a question like this
Speaker 2: is like guy's hands. This is the way, like history
Speaker 2: is moving. Okay, So it's all you gotta do is
Speaker 2: like show up and be correct. It's the end of
Speaker 2: my Stirne.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I've been talking to some of our
Speaker 1: guys over the past couple of days when these videos
Speaker 1: started coming out, especially from Ohio, and then you know,
Speaker 1: we got we got people down here everything with the
Speaker 1: old Glory Club, and I think we're pretty much of
Speaker 1: the opinion that if anything is going to and I
Speaker 1: don't want this to happen. I'm not advocating for this
Speaker 1: to happen. Anyone who's listening, if anything could cause the
Speaker 1: right to go kinetic, it's this. It's seeing those videos
Speaker 1: on Twitter, seeing you know, America First Legal just put
Speaker 1: out a thing today a long thread today talking about
Speaker 1: where these Haitians, how these Haitians got here, and how
Speaker 1: many any are actually here right now? And this is
Speaker 1: I I'm not I don't like making predictions, but a
Speaker 1: friend of mine said, make predictions. It means you got
Speaker 1: skin in the game. I'm thinking that if anything is
Speaker 1: going to make the right Gough kinectic, it might be this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, it's already happened. It's already happening. I mean,
Speaker 2: I if I seem I do not at all, like
Speaker 2: maybe be like flipping about this. If I seem that way,
Speaker 2: I'm always behind enemy lines. I always have been, I
Speaker 2: always will be because I'm never gonna leave here for
Speaker 2: you know, I'm always gonna spend at least part of
Speaker 2: the year here. So I mean, this is just this
Speaker 2: is my every day like I'm not and it always
Speaker 2: has been. But I'm not saying like, oh, I'm such
Speaker 2: a bit ass so like you know, I I know
Speaker 2: better than anybody else like that, That's not what I'm
Speaker 2: saying at all. Like what I'm saying is that like
Speaker 2: I I I don't even like notice it anymore, you know,
Speaker 2: because of where I live. But uh, yeah, obviously what
Speaker 2: they're doing, is the regimes trying to compromise readouts potentially
Speaker 2: and UH as well as compromise the ability of UH
Speaker 2: of people to mobilize locally. But they're not gonna be
Speaker 2: able to They're not gonna be able to do it.
Speaker 2: And what we're up on. It's not a numbers game,
Speaker 2: but like in terms of God forbid uh, you know,
Speaker 2: like a ross and krieg, or in terms of like
Speaker 2: in terms of like racial like war politics, I mean
Speaker 2: it's a conflict politics. Rather, it's a spectrum. I mean
Speaker 2: we are seventy million strong, you know, in terms of
Speaker 2: people who are like, yeah, I don't I don't vote
Speaker 2: for like the one weight nation thing, you know, like
Speaker 2: I just profound differences between people based on ethnos. But
Speaker 2: in terms of like silent majority coalition stuff, I mean,
Speaker 2: these are the people we do stand with, you know,
Speaker 2: like when Shiit is hot, I mean again, there's like
Speaker 2: seventy million of us. We're not We're not gonna take
Speaker 2: a knee and get our asses kicked. A bunch of
Speaker 2: like I went to like filonious creeps, like being chased
Speaker 2: out of their own like freaking bailed state shiphole countries.
Speaker 2: No fucking chance, you know. But I mean we're always
Speaker 2: we're always outnumbered, man, I mean I I you know,
Speaker 2: like guys who got I know, some of the fellas
Speaker 2: a you know who what fuck with us heavily and
Speaker 2: our great guys and like lots of some of these
Speaker 2: guys like been in prison and stuff before they turn
Speaker 2: their life around. Thank God, I've never really been in prison.
Speaker 2: I've only ever had to like freaking stay in jail
Speaker 2: for a couple of days. But you know, like these
Speaker 2: guys said, you know, like if you're like a you know,
Speaker 2: I feel like a white dude who's down like you
Speaker 2: you you basically like walk the yard alone and like,
Speaker 2: you know, not just because you know, know that's that's
Speaker 2: like the fate of the master Cast. But it's also
Speaker 2: because like we're not we're not a munch of freaking
Speaker 2: tribal primitives. Like we're not. We're not people need you know,
Speaker 2: some kind of like we need some kind of like
Speaker 2: collectivist paradigm to function, you know, like and I emphasize
Speaker 2: the other people again and again. And that's like there's
Speaker 2: a younger like like younger made a lot of that.
Speaker 2: That's why I like it irritates me with people like
Speaker 2: like when I when I talk about like being a
Speaker 2: wood and like walking alone path like people like some
Speaker 2: like esoteric thing that's like indecipherable but they don't want
Speaker 2: to have to fucking talking about it irritates me. But
Speaker 2: it's obvious if you're in the game. And well, I
Speaker 2: mean this, this is where it's at. I I get
Speaker 2: on the bus every morning and when I leave my
Speaker 2: little town, which is like, you know, fifteen, like eighteen
Speaker 2: minutes north of downtown. Like, uh, I mean, I'm a
Speaker 2: minority here, but like, let's like less, it's less, h
Speaker 2: the volume is little less. But uh ever I go
Speaker 2: during my day, I'm out number one thousand to one.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't shake me up. I mean obviously obviously,
Speaker 2: uh I. I want to return to kind of the
Speaker 2: the proverbial like warm yet iron embrace and my own people.
Speaker 2: And that's again why like I'm so lucky to have
Speaker 2: clicked up with you guys, and why I've kind of
Speaker 2: found my home away from home in the south Land.
Speaker 2: But uh oh, I can fucking thrive anywhere, man.
Speaker 1: You know, well, let's end on a you know, somewhat
Speaker 1: positive or let's see if you're on this positive, it's
Speaker 1: like a FD one like three different three different areas,
Speaker 1: three different states in in Germany. I think they're all former.
Speaker 1: I think they're all former DVR area, which makes yes.
Speaker 2: But I was great, Yeah, what do you think about that? No,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's good news. And I know the
Speaker 2: dude he's I don't want to docs and I know
Speaker 2: I know the dude who is kind of the unofficial
Speaker 2: liaison of a FD in America. You know, he's like
Speaker 2: an East Coast and to do It'll leave it at that,
Speaker 2: and he he's been very cool to me man, and
Speaker 2: so of so of h a lot of his friends.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why I don't like people being
Speaker 2: down on the gropers like this, the say of de
Speaker 2: do in question, like a lot of his, a lot
Speaker 2: of his is a lot of the dudes that he
Speaker 2: a lot of the dudes that he he rides with
Speaker 2: here in America are like the East Coast grapers and
Speaker 2: they're like, they're like fucking solid as dudes. I got
Speaker 2: I got love for the East Coast brapers.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: That's I mean. I don't like people like ship talking
Speaker 2: others anyway unless they're truly like one of our ops
Speaker 2: and like a piece of ship. I just don't like it.
Speaker 2: But I know some people got issues with the grapers,
Speaker 2: but I I want to shout out that I got
Speaker 2: love for them. I ground today and some other things.
Speaker 2: But no, they are, they have d They're good dudes.
Speaker 2: They're serious dudes. But the problem is, you know, that
Speaker 2: kind of breakout momentum they're cultivating, they're they're just going
Speaker 2: to be banned, you know if uh, if they continue,
Speaker 2: assuming they don't just like kind of like peak like
Speaker 2: with some kind of obviously they're they're beyond just like
Speaker 2: being some like you know, having some like little stronghold
Speaker 2: in Saxony or whatever. But there's always a point at which,
Speaker 2: uh that there's always a point at which, uh the
Speaker 2: boon is for public. Like there's some like bands like
Speaker 2: parties that you know are are serious about, you know,
Speaker 2: dismantling the occupation regime. So unfortunately that's the fate of
Speaker 2: af D, like if they continue on this path of
Speaker 2: the success. But it does, but it is positive because
Speaker 2: you know, they're that regime is uh is losing credibility
Speaker 2: just like you know, the just just like it's just
Speaker 2: like get the the host regime from which it was emergent.
Speaker 2: You know here in America is losing any legitimacy. You know,
Speaker 2: like NATO literally pulled off a massive terrorist attack in
Speaker 2: German infrastructure, basically tank their economy, and like now they're
Speaker 2: especially at bank roll like this kind of permanent like
Speaker 2: desionist war against Russia. Like you think, how do you
Speaker 2: how do you sell that as like sensible government, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's not long for this earth. So it's something
Speaker 2: to watch. And I can actually I can basically decipher
Speaker 2: German media like a do all. I'm not at all
Speaker 2: fluent in German, but I can. I can basically read
Speaker 2: it and understand it, unlike say, like you know, trying
Speaker 2: to try to get sense for what's happening in like
Speaker 2: TV France or or or Russia or something. But yeah, no,
Speaker 2: God God blessed the the German guys, a lot of
Speaker 2: a lot of whom are are big supporters of my
Speaker 2: stuff and and just like good guys man, you know,
Speaker 2: my heart's always with the Germans. I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: very much like an anglophone person. I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: am like an ulster bastard like you know, I'm like more,
Speaker 2: I'm more like and more like angle Sax and then
Speaker 2: like a lot of English people like literally like my
Speaker 2: dna is. But I did have like a freaking German granny,
Speaker 2: you know, something like I And I mean I like
Speaker 2: I like the crowds anyway, you know. But yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's my take.
Speaker 1: Well let's let's take this all the way back to
Speaker 1: the beginning. Some people were shitting on the FD because, oh,
Speaker 1: it seems like some of the leadership is Jewish.
Speaker 2: Maybe there are, maybe they aren't. I don't haven't. I
Speaker 2: haven't deep dived into their personnel, other staff, uh, the personalities,
Speaker 2: like the constantly kind of like their control group. I
Speaker 2: haven't like deep dived into their backgrounds. Maybe they are,
Speaker 2: they're not. But again, there's no chance of some like
Speaker 2: electoral solution emerging in the Boots Republic for all kinds
Speaker 2: of reasons. But all I can tell you is that
Speaker 2: the dudes I indexed with and who have like broken
Speaker 2: bread with literally who kind of like represent their ship
Speaker 2: in America, these guys, I don't think they were just
Speaker 2: like telling me what I wanted to be here, Like
Speaker 2: why would I why would they? You know, I'm just
Speaker 2: some guy. They they realized that what I just said
Speaker 2: that there's not going to be some kind of sea
Speaker 2: change and sea change and policy I think and somehow,
Speaker 2: you know, get a place at the table of a
Speaker 2: future coalition. Like they know that. The read I got
Speaker 2: was they're they're playing the electoral game. They're playing the
Speaker 2: parliamentary game for the same reasons. Why, like I've said,
Speaker 2: I think Donald Trump is important, like because Trump the
Speaker 2: guy is like this amazing guy, like because like his
Speaker 2: policies or even like such as they exist. I mean,
Speaker 2: Trum's good on immigration, he's good on trade. Beyond that,
Speaker 2: obviously he sucks it policy wise, but Trump the Trump
Speaker 2: the guy is an important like him as a as
Speaker 2: a as a sociological and historical phenomenon symbolically speaking, and
Speaker 2: like an animating catalyst for the silent majority coalition. Like
Speaker 2: that's why he's important. I uh, it's an impervent analogy.
Speaker 2: But when I gleaned from these AfD guys, like they
Speaker 2: met me and uh my buddy, my, uh my, my
Speaker 2: Swedish buddy who's actually back in Sweden now like over
Speaker 2: in Sweden. He was born here, but he's got you know,
Speaker 2: like the little studentship. We we met them at this
Speaker 2: north side German place, not not like my go to place,
Speaker 2: an arming park, like at a different joint. And you know,
Speaker 2: like they they when I was out like a year
Speaker 2: and like two months ago, when I was out in Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: like these guys showed me like a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of love and give me a lot of respect
Speaker 2: and show me a lot of fatality. But I think
Speaker 2: they're realistic always the dudes I talk to. I mean
Speaker 2: maybe the man in the street, he was like a
Speaker 2: dude's paying member of am D like what he thinks.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I, like I said, man,
Speaker 2: I I don't think there's a lot of Germans running around,
Speaker 2: like don't understand kind of like the parameters of of them,
Speaker 2: the regime they live under.
Speaker 1: You know, do you think the best thing that you
Speaker 1: can hope for under an occupation government is just somebody
Speaker 1: or you get like somebody running the regime that just
Speaker 1: leaves you alone At this point.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's in the hands of history, you know,
Speaker 2: which is the cunning of reason which emerges from the
Speaker 2: mind of God. But again it's a matter of like
Speaker 2: thinking locally, man like you and what matters is if
Speaker 2: you live in a small town in Alabama, you know
Speaker 2: it's important unless he's like a total ship bag and
Speaker 2: you'd be compromising yourself and making friends with them, like
Speaker 2: be cool with like the local cops or cops, like
Speaker 2: be cool with the marryor town you know, or the
Speaker 2: local coptroll or whatever. You know. Make sure that like
Speaker 2: the state legislature, like the guy you send there like
Speaker 2: isn't a ship bag like stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You know it.
Speaker 2: If the regime decides is gonna smash you, it'll find
Speaker 2: a way. It'll it'll subject you to lawfair or it'll
Speaker 2: just like or it'll just like stick the I R
Speaker 2: s on you until you tell and say you like
Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand dollars even though you don't you know,
Speaker 2: so like Daniell just constantly be like fighting, like hang
Speaker 2: out any money you make, you know, ship like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, I uh, people gotta be habituated the
Speaker 2: fact that I mean if you take on political commitments,
Speaker 2: especially ones that I mean, I don't think it's like
Speaker 2: this big scary detriment to like not fuck with regime stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like it's it's like it's like total it should
Speaker 2: be like totally liberating. But for those people who find
Speaker 2: it like upsetting or like really fucks with your program. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna take on a disin perspective, you've gotta
Speaker 2: be you've gotta fully embrace the fact that like you're
Speaker 2: going to be long, you're gonna be dead, you're gonna
Speaker 2: be dust before like you know, you see anything like
Speaker 2: truly counterfruition. Like I said in my life, I I
Speaker 2: figured what's happening now? When we started happening like like
Speaker 2: around like eight years ago, I knew that would happen
Speaker 2: at some point, but I figured, you know, I always,
Speaker 2: like I said before, like I figured I'd be like
Speaker 2: long day, but then it happened. I was totally okay
Speaker 2: with that. You know, I'm lucky to have been alive
Speaker 2: when this kind of phase of the historical process that
Speaker 2: tourch concerns, you know, the kind of fate of America
Speaker 2: and it's uh late modern phase. I mean, I'm lucky.
Speaker 2: I'm lucky to be alive like at the time that
Speaker 2: I am. Okay, that's what we gotta look at it.
Speaker 2: This this this pros and cons that every like EPO, I.
Speaker 1: Think we should end it right there too, plugs and
Speaker 1: I'll end it.
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I've got a whole realm of I had
Speaker 2: a whole realm of stuff. If I wasn't sure how
Speaker 2: you wanted to approach this, you want to talk about it,
Speaker 2: totally fine, like I actually it was really nice the
Speaker 2: conversation and be kind of free flowing like that. But
Speaker 2: if you want to talk about Russian Syrian relations from
Speaker 2: you know, the post World War two hour or two today,
Speaker 2: I could talk about that like all day.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you tell me that? Man? We could have
Speaker 1: been doing that. It's like, hell, yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's fine your show. I don't want to
Speaker 2: be like, hey, this is what we're doing. What let's
Speaker 2: let's reconvene this week and we'll do that. Is that acceptable?
Speaker 1: That sounds great to me? Man? That now now I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I love hearing about Syria. Man, that's the country fascinates me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. I it's it's all. I really
Speaker 2: love Syria and I I've got great love with the
Speaker 2: Syrian people. But yeah, I'm back on Twitter or X
Speaker 2: as they call it, which really lame. I mean this
Speaker 2: this might be like an old person concern. If I
Speaker 2: open up the X app on my phone, and which
Speaker 2: I do not in frequently, As'm always on the bus
Speaker 2: they train, it looks like I'm looking at fucking pornography
Speaker 2: or something. It's like, it's like, why would you do that?
Speaker 2: I like, I got love for Elon, but I I
Speaker 2: don't know why he did that. It's stupid. But as
Speaker 2: it may, you can find me there. It's at real
Speaker 2: all caps R E A L underscore number seven lowercase
Speaker 2: h O M A S seven seven seven. You can
Speaker 2: find on my website. It's Thomas seven seven seven dot
Speaker 2: com number seven h M A S seven seven seven
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find that substack real Thomas R
Speaker 2: E R e A L T h O m A
Speaker 2: S seven seven seven dot substack dot com on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Another I'm like all over the fucking place, include like
Speaker 2: my plug is like in the disc if you would
Speaker 2: please of course, And yeah.
Speaker 1: Says the merch got says the merch got a free
Speaker 1: shoutout today and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I got them.
Speaker 1: But that is really by that Israeli agent Jordan's shock.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I did a whole substack about that.
Speaker 1: How that guy. How that guys, thank you?
Speaker 2: I yeah, what a huge goof that guy is. But no,
Speaker 2: thank you, man, I appreciate them. I appreciate that. I
Speaker 2: didn't have time to have time to comment yet, but
Speaker 2: yeah I blitz Ink Studios if you're like and clearly
Speaker 2: like the Mercalink. I never remember like what the freaking
Speaker 2: r l is, but but yeah, I got our dear
Speaker 2: friend here, Kree. He's he's he's a brilliant guy for
Speaker 2: like mocking up like shirts and stuff like I'm like
Speaker 2: a teacher guy. I think everybody knows, you know, and
Speaker 2: his his designs are just like freaking awesome, man. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's where we're at. I'm trying to bear down on
Speaker 2: this manuscript and it seems to be going well, and yeah,
Speaker 2: all is well and every bless and it's autumn and
Speaker 2: autumn's the best season. And in a few days on
Speaker 2: Sunday is my birthday, and uh, I'm kind of looking
Speaker 2: forward to that because I'm gonna go eat good with
Speaker 2: with the fellas and it's u. On September fifteenth, nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy six, Atron Big Alerts Singleton, the rapper who was
Speaker 2: also a cannibal murderer, he was born. I was also
Speaker 2: born on the exact same date. Auvert Stone was born
Speaker 2: on that day too, but that was like way back
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty seven. But yeah, so like me and
Speaker 2: big LARTs like share a birthday, just kind of creep evil.
Speaker 1: Is there ever saw you? My my patent thing? I
Speaker 1: shared a I share a birthday with Paton And I
Speaker 1: was born in and I was born in the hospital
Speaker 1: he died in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot that you were born in in the
Speaker 2: Bunus Republic. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Heidelberg. Yeah, so yeah, the same birthday, November eleventh,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we're the same hospital. All Right, man, I'll
Speaker 1: talk to you this week. Let's take care now,