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<v Speaker 1>On his eighth birthday in nineteen ninety eight. Little Robbie

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<v Speaker 1>was excited as he disappeared into a network of trails

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<v Speaker 1>in the woods behind his Texas neighborhood to go invite

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<v Speaker 1>a friend to a backyard camp out. Then less than

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<v Speaker 1>an hour later, he came stumbling back out, blackened and

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<v Speaker 1>burned over nearly his entire body after being doused in

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<v Speaker 1>gasoline and set on fire. Doctors never expected him to survive,

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<v Speaker 1>yet Robbie defied the odds and spent the next thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>years enduring hundreds of surgeries while investigators struggled to prove

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<v Speaker 1>who had done this to him. What followed became one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most disturbing and emotionally devastating criminal cases Texas

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<v Speaker 1>has ever seen, and eventually, through sheer determination, Robbie made

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<v Speaker 1>sure that the one who did this to him was

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<v Speaker 1>held accountable in the end. This is the story of

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<v Speaker 1>eight year old Robbie Middleton.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Following material more audience listener discretion, Nicole has some big news,

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<v Speaker 1>like massive news. I do she took two days off.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, well, I did a little bit of work today.

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<v Speaker 2>We are workaholics, but maybe like an hour total.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that that counts. We're workaholics. And yeah, the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that you took time off is pretty big. Congratulations.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so damn good for my mental health. You

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<v Speaker 2>have no idea. But now I kind of it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not really a middle person. I'm just like all

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<v Speaker 2>or nothing. Yeah, and so now I'm like, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to take the whole week off.

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<v Speaker 1>You're just onto the nothing and of the train now. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel that though, don't get me wrong, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>that well.

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<v Speaker 2>In our pre show, yeah, I said last year, I

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<v Speaker 2>like needed only two hands to to say how many

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<v Speaker 2>days off I took that year? And that's not okay,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not so.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that you're actually looking after that a bit

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<v Speaker 1>more this year.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a goal.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think I said that in the pre show too,

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<v Speaker 1>that I think it's important that we all try and

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<v Speaker 1>take care of ourselves and you know, look after ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>and appreciate things.

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<v Speaker 2>So and enjoy your life a little.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. For example, I'm having a whiskey, you sure are,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know if I'm having a whiskey on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>That usually means that the episode is a heavy one.

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<v Speaker 1>So actually just saying.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a correlation, there isn't there there very much?

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<v Speaker 2>So is dang? So why am I not drinking alcohol?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. You made that choice, not me. You're

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<v Speaker 1>just having a bubbly, aren't you?

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<v Speaker 2>A cherry bubbly? Bubbies are amazing. They're delicious, especially when

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<v Speaker 2>they're cold, because we don't keep them in the fridge

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<v Speaker 2>very often.

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<v Speaker 1>Well in a tiny home, we don't have much room

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<v Speaker 1>in the fridge.

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<v Speaker 2>But this one was in the fridge and I was like, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well did you throw more in the fridge? When you

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<v Speaker 1>pull that out? It actually, well it's good. Okay, So

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<v Speaker 1>you got some more more chilled bubblies for later to enjoy. Awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>We also did do something fun the other day that

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<v Speaker 1>we didn't even talk about in the pre show. We

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<v Speaker 1>went to a poultry swap. Oh yeah, saw some chickens

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff. Had a good time. We always go like,

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<v Speaker 1>even if we're not getting chickens or anything, we just

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<v Speaker 1>grab a coffee and go check it out under around. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's always fun to go do those things.

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<v Speaker 2>And we are we going to announce it or no,

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<v Speaker 2>we can if you'd like. We rehomed our two rooms.

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<v Speaker 1>We did. We had to downsize our flock a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>and for recording purposes, they were constantly interrupting our records.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't a good fit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we found them a great home. We can

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<v Speaker 1>actually go visit them whenever we want to.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just, yeah, I got a little emotional almost.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just so thrilled that we found them a

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<v Speaker 2>good home to pass.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. A nice start too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>They got some other chickens and ducks and they had

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<v Speaker 1>pigs and oh it was perfect. Yeah. And it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>even like a rescue as well. So they taken a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of animals who who need assistance, who need to

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<v Speaker 1>find a home. So not only did they take in

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<v Speaker 1>our roosters, we made sure you put a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a contribution monetarily wise towards their rescue to help

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<v Speaker 1>them out and make sure that our roosters get a

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<v Speaker 1>good place.

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<v Speaker 2>Couldn't have gone any better, I agree.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's one more thing too about it that

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't go anymore better, and it's when you sign up

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<v Speaker 1>for Patreon and get that exclusive behind the scenes content.

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<v Speaker 1>You can go check out our pre show that we

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<v Speaker 1>recorded right before this, like Live Lindsey, Lemon, Squeeze, and

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<v Speaker 1>Kylie aunt All can because they signed up this week

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<v Speaker 1>because they're just awesome like that and they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>get all that cool behind scenes stuff and extra content.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we super appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that one too obvious?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, no, I kind of set you up. I felt like,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was wondering if you're gonna take it, But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it was. I guess it was obvious.

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of made that one obvious. I was hoping

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<v Speaker 1>it was obvious.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's okay. I think that still worked really well.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not I don't always try and hide them, but

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I should start trying to hide them a bit

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<v Speaker 1>more because there's been a couple of times you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>totally seen that coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, we at this point, I think we

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<v Speaker 2>just will.

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<v Speaker 1>You think probably, Oh now it's on.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's a game.

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<v Speaker 1>Now it's I'm going to make sure I try and

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<v Speaker 1>hide this as best as I can and just bring

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<v Speaker 1>it out of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Donkey kong.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh it is. But anyways, I'm going to save that

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<v Speaker 1>for maybe next Tuesday or maybe the next one after that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to tell you when, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>we should get to the actual case today. And heads up,

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<v Speaker 1>this does deal with abuse of a child, so trigger

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<v Speaker 1>warning for that. It is somewhat of a survival story.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I know you have me been on the edge

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<v Speaker 2>of my seat here. This one seems like it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>It's tough.

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<v Speaker 1>It's tough, and it's sad. I'll tell you that right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, most cases are so, I mean, who am

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<v Speaker 1>I to say, but this one definitely got to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll say that. So in the morning of June twenty eighth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety eight, Robbie Middleton woke up all excited. After all,

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<v Speaker 1>it was his eighth birthday, and not to mention, school

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<v Speaker 1>was out for the summer and the small town of

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<v Speaker 1>Splendora was already warming under the East Texas sun. For

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<v Speaker 1>most kids, birthdays mean cake and presents. For Robbie had

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<v Speaker 1>also meant freedom. Summer had turned the wooded trails around

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<v Speaker 1>his neighborhood into a giant playground, and that day he

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<v Speaker 1>planned to spend much of his time outside as he could, basically,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, enjoying the sun, enjoying the warmth enjoying the outdoors.

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Middleton aka Robbie, lived with his family in a

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<v Speaker 1>quiet rural area north of Houston. The neighborhoods around Splendora

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<v Speaker 1>were separated by stretches of woods and dirt, trails and

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<v Speaker 1>patches of undeveloped land, where local kids spent their afternoons

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<v Speaker 1>riding bikes, exploring building forts, and cutting through the paths

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<v Speaker 1>between their homes. Parents in the area were very used

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<v Speaker 1>to children wandering from yard to yard. It was the

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<v Speaker 1>quintessential place where kids disappeared outside for hours and came

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<v Speaker 1>back when the street lights came on. By all accounts,

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<v Speaker 1>Robbie was a sweet and unusually compassionate little boy. Friends

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<v Speaker 1>and family described him as polite, energetic, and sensitive towards

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<v Speaker 1>animals and other people. Even at a young age. He

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<v Speaker 1>had a reputation for being very responsible, and he loved

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<v Speaker 1>being outdoors and spending time with neighborhood friends. Now that Sunday,

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<v Speaker 1>Robbie had plans. His family had bought him a new

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<v Speaker 1>tent for his birthday, and he was excited about camping

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<v Speaker 1>out in the backyard for the night. There were hot dogs, marshmallows,

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<v Speaker 1>and birthday food waiting for that very evening, and at

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<v Speaker 1>some point during the afternoon, Robbie planned to invite a

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood boy by the name of analvererto Padilla aka Beato,

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<v Speaker 1>to spend the night camping with him in the backyard. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the Middletown family's home sat near a network of wooded trails,

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<v Speaker 1>the ones I was talking about, the ones where children

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<v Speaker 1>regularly used as shortcuts between neighborhoods and homes and all

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of stuff. Robbie walked these paths countless times before.

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<v Speaker 1>To him, they were so familiar, safe and normal. It

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<v Speaker 1>was just like going through somewhere where he knew, just

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<v Speaker 1>like the back of his own hand. And somewhere nearby

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<v Speaker 1>in that same neighborhood lived another boy, Don Wilburn Collins.

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<v Speaker 1>Don was older than Robbie by several years. He was

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<v Speaker 1>born on April fourth, nineteen eighty five, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen years old that summer. Over the years, neighbors would

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<v Speaker 1>later describe Don as being aggressive and unpredictable, even violence.

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<v Speaker 1>As just a child, he was like this, and kids

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<v Speaker 1>in the neighborhood were said to fear him, and adults

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<v Speaker 1>remembered him fighting carrying knives, hurting animals, and causing trouble

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<v Speaker 1>around the community. But on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 1>he was simply just another neighborhood teenager living near the

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<v Speaker 1>wooded trails outside Splendora, and as the afternoon moved along,

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<v Speaker 1>Robbie headed towards the woods on his way to go

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<v Speaker 1>invite his friend to his birthday camp out. Now, at

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<v Speaker 1>some point around late afternoon, Dawn also entered the same

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<v Speaker 1>wooded paths between the neighborhoods. The trails there were quiet,

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<v Speaker 1>the thick trees and brush surrounded the narrow dirt paths

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<v Speaker 1>that cut through the area. Then less than an hour later,

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<v Speaker 1>the entire neighborhood would erupt in panic. You see, sometime

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<v Speaker 1>during that late afternoon, Robbie encountered thirteen ye old Don

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<v Speaker 1>Collins in the woods, and what happened would become one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most horrifying crimes the area had ever seen,

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<v Speaker 1>because Dawn attacked Robbie. In that moment in the woods,

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<v Speaker 1>eight year old Robbie was grabbed from behind and as

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<v Speaker 1>he turned around, he had gasolene thrown in his face.

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<v Speaker 1>From there, it was then poured all over his body

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<v Speaker 1>as he was tied to a tree inside that wooded area,

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<v Speaker 1>more gasolene was poured over his body, and then came

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<v Speaker 1>the fire. The flames ignited all over him almost immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>and soon with those flames engulfing Robbie as he was

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<v Speaker 1>tied to the tree, the fishing line that was used

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<v Speaker 1>to restrain him began to melt as the heat ate

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<v Speaker 1>away at it and it let loose. Robbie now managed

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<v Speaker 1>to break free from being bound to this tree and

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<v Speaker 1>collapsed onto the ground, Still engulfed in flames. He began

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<v Speaker 1>rolling the dirt, trying to distinguish the fire as the

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<v Speaker 1>heat licked at his skin, burning him badly. Eventually, he

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<v Speaker 1>forced himself back to his feet and stumbled down the

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<v Speaker 1>trail towards the neighborhood, all while he was still set

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<v Speaker 1>on fire. Now people nearby would later describe seeing smoke

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<v Speaker 1>rising from the wooded path right before Robbie emerged. One

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<v Speaker 1>witness saw what looked like a blackened figure stumbling from

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<v Speaker 1>the trail, and another remembered hearing screamings before realizing that

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<v Speaker 1>this blackened figure was a child. Now, Robbie ran as

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<v Speaker 1>far as he could before collapsing near the sidewalk close

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<v Speaker 1>to his home. Neighbors and witnesses rushed towards him. At first,

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<v Speaker 1>some reportedly could not even recognize who they were looking at.

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<v Speaker 1>Robbie's body had been burned so severely that much of

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<v Speaker 1>his skin was black and melting away from his body.

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<v Speaker 1>Witnesses described skin hanging from his fingers, the smell of

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<v Speaker 1>gasoline still lingered around him. Smoke was even reportedly still

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<v Speaker 1>rising from parts of his body when people reached him,

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<v Speaker 1>clearly showing the flames had just been snuffed out moments

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<v Speaker 1>before he stepped out into the open. One witness stayed

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<v Speaker 1>with Robbie while another ran and called nine one one,

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<v Speaker 1>and all the while, despite the unimaginable injuries and pain

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<v Speaker 1>he was enduring, Robbie was still conscious. He begged for

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<v Speaker 1>help and reportedly asked for water. Emergency responders soon raced

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<v Speaker 1>to the scene, and when Robbie's father, Bobby Middleton arrived,

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<v Speaker 1>he initially struggled to even comprehend what he was seeing

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<v Speaker 1>before him was his son, and his body was just

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<v Speaker 1>blackened from burns, with only the whites of his eyes

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly clearly visible. So, needless to say, the injuries that

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<v Speaker 1>he had sustained were clearly catastrophic. Robbie was rushed to

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<v Speaker 1>the hospital and was in critical condition, and medical personnel

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<v Speaker 1>quickly realized that this was not just a normal burn injury.

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<v Speaker 1>Reports later placed the percentage of his body being burned

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<v Speaker 1>between ninety nine percent to ninety nine point five percent

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<v Speaker 1>of his body burned seriously, almost the entirety of his body.

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<v Speaker 2>My gosh, this is just freaking horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, an absolute nightmare.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, Oh my gosh. And to think that he was

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<v Speaker 2>even able to get out of the woods, because the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of pain that he was in, I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>could quite easily just paralyze you as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh for sure it could. Those flames and the smoke

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<v Speaker 1>could probably blind him. The smoke inhalation would be burning

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<v Speaker 1>his lungs, it would be hard to breathe. And the fact,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, that he was able to navigate out

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<v Speaker 1>that loan's a miracle.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, holy frick No, Like, no one would deserve something

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>No. Now, the damage caused Robbie was almost unimaginable as

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<v Speaker 1>it covered virtually his entire body, and doctors began fighting

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<v Speaker 1>immediately to try and stabilize him, but the situation. While

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<v Speaker 1>it looked hopeless, many of the doctors said they had

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<v Speaker 1>never seen burn victims this bad before. It was something

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<v Speaker 1>that was basically out of a nightmare, even for these

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<v Speaker 1>medical professionals. Now, for clarification, severe burn victims like Robbie

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<v Speaker 1>often pass away, and not just from the burns themselves, though,

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<v Speaker 1>but from shock, infection, fluid loss, organ failure, and respiratory complications.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a whole library of things that go wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with situations like this, and Robbie's body had endured trauma

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<v Speaker 1>so extreme that the doctors and physicians reportedly warned his

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<v Speaker 1>family that he was likely not going to survive, and

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<v Speaker 1>at one point, doctors even prepared Robbie's mother, Colleen Middleton,

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<v Speaker 1>for the possibility that her son would die within hours

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<v Speaker 1>of arriving at the.

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<v Speaker 2>Hospital on his damn birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>On his eighth birthday. However, instead of dying, Robbie survived.

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<v Speaker 1>After emergency stabilization, he was transferred to the burn unit

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<v Speaker 1>at Shriner's Hospital for Children in Gavelston, Texas, where specialists

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<v Speaker 1>began what would ultimately become years of painful treatment and reconstruction. However,

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<v Speaker 1>this was still only the beginning, as the full context

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<v Speaker 1>and extent of Robbie's injuries slowly became clear over the

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<v Speaker 1>following days. You see, burns had destroyed massive portions of

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<v Speaker 1>his skin. For example, he lost his eyelids. One eye,

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<v Speaker 1>suffered severe permanent damage that would eventually leave him partially blind.

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<v Speaker 1>Muscles tightened and contracted beneath scar tissue. His body struggled

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<v Speaker 1>to regulate temperature, and even breathing became difficult because of

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<v Speaker 1>how badly skin across his chest and torso had been damaged.

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<v Speaker 1>So think of how when you take a deep breath

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<v Speaker 1>in the expansion of your chest. Now imagine all that

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<v Speaker 1>skin being burnt. Not only burnt, but trying to recover

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<v Speaker 1>the sores, the rawness, the dryness, the cracking from simply

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<v Speaker 1>inhaling and breathing.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh geez.

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<v Speaker 1>The injuries also created enormous risks of infection, and doctors

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00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>use temporary cadaver skin to cover portions of Robbie's body

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00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.039
<v Speaker 1>while they searched for long term solutions. Now eventually, specialists

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00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.159
<v Speaker 1>attempted experimental procedures using lab grown skin created from surviving

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00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>tissue taken from the bottom of Robbie's feet, which were

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00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.519
<v Speaker 1>one of the only areas of his body left relatively

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<v Speaker 1>untouched by the fire. Even with those procedures, though, the

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00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:59.480
<v Speaker 1>recovery process was absolutely brutal, and the burn treatment is well,

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00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:05.559
<v Speaker 1>it's very excruciating. See dead tissue, for example, It has

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00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:10.119
<v Speaker 1>to be removed repeatedly to prevent that infection. So while

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00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.319
<v Speaker 1>you're healing, you have dead tissue being left behind, and

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00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.480
<v Speaker 1>that has to be scraped and cut away from your burns.

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<v Speaker 1>As you try to heal, skin graphs will fail, medical

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00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.720
<v Speaker 1>dressings have to be constantly changed, and patients often undergo

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00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>endless rounds of surgery just to preserve mobility and to

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00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:34.559
<v Speaker 1>try and keep wounds closed. Now, keep in mind Robbie

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<v Speaker 1>endured all of this as a child, just a kid,

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00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:42.640
<v Speaker 1>and over the years he would ultimately undergo more than

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00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:47.720
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty surgeries, with some sources estimating the

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00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.480
<v Speaker 1>number being over two hundred procedures if smaller operations and

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00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:57.160
<v Speaker 1>revisions were included in that number. These treatments stretched across

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00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.680
<v Speaker 1>more than a decade of Robbie's life, and still in

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00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.480
<v Speaker 1>those first months after the attack, investigators still had no

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00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.400
<v Speaker 1>certainty that he wouldn't even live long enough to leave

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00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:14.119
<v Speaker 1>the hospital. The pain medication required to keep Robbi alive

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00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.200
<v Speaker 1>complicated things even further. He drifted in and out of

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<v Speaker 1>consciousness while being very heavily medicated. Family members later described

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<v Speaker 1>periods where Robbie was hallucinating or became very confused. At times,

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<v Speaker 1>he reportedly blamed strange things for the fire that occurred,

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00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:38.400
<v Speaker 1>things like neighborhood dogs, accidental causes, and even completely unrelated people.

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<v Speaker 1>And so investigators really struggled to determine which statements were reliable,

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00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.680
<v Speaker 1>in which ones were the product of trauma, medication and

316
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:53.559
<v Speaker 1>the excruciating physical pain. However, through it all, one thing

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00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:58.079
<v Speaker 1>kept resurfacing over and over, and that was the name

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00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:04.079
<v Speaker 1>Dawn Collins. So, now armed with this name and with

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00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Robbie fighting for his life in Gavelston, detectives in Montgomery

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<v Speaker 1>County began trying to reconstruct what had happened in the

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00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 1>woods outside of Splendora that day. At first, some investigators

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00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.720
<v Speaker 1>believe the fire might have actually been an accident. You know,

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00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.240
<v Speaker 1>children playing with gasoline or matches was not exactly unheard

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00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.279
<v Speaker 1>of in rural East Texas, especially when you consider that

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00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:29.160
<v Speaker 1>this is the nineties after all. But Robbie named Don

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00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:35.039
<v Speaker 1>Collins repeatedly and insisted on an intentional attack. Well that

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00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.240
<v Speaker 1>was very hard to ignore, so soon police arrested Down

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<v Speaker 1>and took him into juvenile custody while investigators tried to

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00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:46.799
<v Speaker 1>build a case around what Robbie had described. But as

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00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the interviews continued, problems began appearing almost immediately. Wherever detectives looked,

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<v Speaker 1>Robbie's condition was deteriorating constantly. The pain medications keeping him

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<v Speaker 1>alive also affected his ability to communicate consistently, and according

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00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.480
<v Speaker 1>to later testimony, this is where Robbie's ups and downs

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00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.839
<v Speaker 1>of his condition played a very big part. Sometimes he

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00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.240
<v Speaker 1>appeared very lucid and focused, while other moments he hallucinated,

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00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:18.880
<v Speaker 1>he became confused, or gave contradictory sorry accounts of what

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00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.960
<v Speaker 1>had happened, and those inconsistencies would become one of the

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00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:24.960
<v Speaker 1>biggest obstacles in this story.

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00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, investigators were struggling with the physical

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00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.880
<v Speaker 1>evidence too. The wooded trail where Robbie had been attacked

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00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.119
<v Speaker 1>quickly became contaminated, and the chaos after the emergency responders

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00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.720
<v Speaker 1>and neighbors rushed through the area, detectives recovered numerous items

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00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>from the woods, including cigarette butts, a lighter, fuel related

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00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.559
<v Speaker 1>materials like a plastic jug, hoses connected to a boat

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00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.599
<v Speaker 1>fuel tank, and burned clothing. But the scene had already

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00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.920
<v Speaker 1>been disturbed before investigators fully secured it. Not to mention,

348
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>this was a public area where people were going through constantly,

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<v Speaker 1>So what was part of the scene and what was

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00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:05.519
<v Speaker 1>part of what was left there before? Now, there was

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00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.279
<v Speaker 1>also another major problem too. None of the evidence that

352
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.519
<v Speaker 1>was there directly connected back to Don Collins at all.

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00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>It did not connect him to the attack. There were

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00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.839
<v Speaker 1>also no eyewitnesses who saw him and tying Robbie to

355
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.599
<v Speaker 1>the tree. There was no DNA evidence that was linking

356
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.319
<v Speaker 1>him to the gasoline or the fire, and no fingerprints

357
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.839
<v Speaker 1>placing him at the scene in any sort of meaningful way.

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<v Speaker 1>So investigators strongly suspected Don. But suspicion and proof, well

359
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.839
<v Speaker 1>those are two very different things, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I was so fixated on just Robbie, right, But the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that a frickin thirteen year old committed this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of crime is fucking mind blowing.

363
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh it is. And just wait till you hear about

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00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.680
<v Speaker 1>the motive behind that crime, because it gets even worse.

365
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<v Speaker 2>Gosh, I don't know kids that young committing crimes like

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<v Speaker 2>this terrifies me.

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00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>It really does, which is where it begs that question

368
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.640
<v Speaker 1>of when does someone like become a monster like this

369
00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>right the nature verse nurture? Are they born that way

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00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>or are they taught that way? I mean, that's the

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00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:11.440
<v Speaker 1>whole argument. We've been going on for years over the show,

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00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and it will continue going on for as long as

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00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:18.599
<v Speaker 1>the show exists. But someone this young being capable of

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00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>something like that is scary, is shit?

375
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it seems like it's more scary than if it

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00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:27.599
<v Speaker 2>was an adult really, which I don't know why exactly, but.

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00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean an adult, it's like, how how long

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00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:32.839
<v Speaker 1>have you lived? How long can you be tainted? What

379
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of shit did you get into you? Like, you

380
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.200
<v Speaker 1>understand what you're after and what you should and shouldn't

381
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.519
<v Speaker 1>be doing, So it's like, okay, you're just a straight

382
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.240
<v Speaker 1>up piece of shit if you know you shouldn't do

383
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 1>those things and you do it. But if you're that young,

384
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:48.160
<v Speaker 1>like what's going.

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00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:50.200
<v Speaker 2>On in your mind? Because a thirteen year old should

386
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.480
<v Speaker 2>still be just like riding their bikes or I don't know,

387
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.720
<v Speaker 2>what is a thirteen year old boy like playing in

388
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.200
<v Speaker 2>the woods.

389
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, looking for frogs and lizards and snakes, who knows.

390
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Not thinking about tying someone to a tree, pouring gasole

391
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:03.880
<v Speaker 2>over them and lighting them on fire.

392
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<v Speaker 1>Right now, there was also a confession issue here, see,

393
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 1>investigators believed Don had made incriminating statements while he was

394
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.440
<v Speaker 1>in custody, but questions soon emerged about how those statements

395
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:24.359
<v Speaker 1>had actually been obtained. Defense attorneys would later argue the

396
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.279
<v Speaker 1>juvenile interrogation process had not been handled correctly, so whatever

397
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:33.319
<v Speaker 1>evidence they did get while questioning Don was essentially moot,

398
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.200
<v Speaker 1>and concerns were raised about whether Don had been questioned

399
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.799
<v Speaker 1>even in an approved juvenile processing office, whether officers had

400
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.559
<v Speaker 1>improperly influenced portions of those statements, and whether his age

401
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:50.279
<v Speaker 1>and intellectual limitations made a confession even reliable or not so. Ultimately,

402
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.000
<v Speaker 1>after spending several months in a juvenile detention center, Don

403
00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:58.319
<v Speaker 1>Collins was released, and for Robbie's family, who firmly believed

404
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:03.920
<v Speaker 1>he was the one responsible, it was devastating. But even still,

405
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 1>the legal collapse mattered far less than the physical reality

406
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 1>Robbie now faced every single day. While investigations stalled, the

407
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 1>eight year old boy who should not have survived at

408
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.680
<v Speaker 1>all was beginning a recovery process that would consume the

409
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>rest of his life. Because against almost every single expectation

410
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:29.079
<v Speaker 1>doctors originally had, Robbie Middleton continued to survive day after day,

411
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>week after week, month after month. Robbie remained at Shriner's

412
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Hospital for Children in Galiston for extended periods while surgeons

413
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and specialists tried to rebuild what the fire had destroyed.

414
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>The process was agonizing slow and never truly ended. As

415
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:50.200
<v Speaker 1>a severe burn, recovery became a permanent condition. I already

416
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 1>alluded to all the surgeries Robbie would endure, and it

417
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.640
<v Speaker 1>was all so severe that nearly every stage of his

418
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>childhood became tied to nothing but surgeries, rehabilitytion, wound care,

419
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:07.079
<v Speaker 1>and recovery. Doctors used every technique available to keep him alive,

420
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.400
<v Speaker 1>and those burns permanently changed nearly every part of him

421
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.599
<v Speaker 1>as he just kept surviving. This was his life for

422
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:22.319
<v Speaker 1>the next twelve years, surgery after surgery, skin grafts, reconstruction,

423
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:27.200
<v Speaker 1>wound revisions, eye procedures, therapy sessions. They were relentless, and

424
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:32.519
<v Speaker 1>so was the pain. Family members later described Robbie screaming

425
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.240
<v Speaker 1>through parts of his recovery as doctors cleaned wounds and

426
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>changed dressings. Even routine physical therapy could become absolutely unbearable

427
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:46.400
<v Speaker 1>for him. Burn survivors often have to force scar tissue

428
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:52.480
<v Speaker 1>to stretch repeatedly to avoid losing mobility entirely. But people

429
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.759
<v Speaker 1>who worked with Robbie remembered something else just as much

430
00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:02.519
<v Speaker 1>as they remembered the pain. They remembered his attitude. Rebecca Whitlock,

431
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.480
<v Speaker 1>a therapist who worked with Robbie at Shriner's, later described

432
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:12.440
<v Speaker 1>him as being funny, resilient, and unusually compassionate towards other patients.

433
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Staff Members watched him encourage younger burn victims, despite the

434
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.079
<v Speaker 1>fact that he himself had endured one of the worst

435
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.799
<v Speaker 1>injuries many of them had ever seen in their career,

436
00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:26.039
<v Speaker 1>and over time, Robbie became more than just a patient

437
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.440
<v Speaker 1>at the hospital. He became part of the community there.

438
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:34.000
<v Speaker 1>He spent years around other burn victims and began developing

439
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>a deep passion for helping them. Robbie reportedly struggled to

440
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:42.319
<v Speaker 1>understand why some children could not afford certain surgeries or

441
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:45.480
<v Speaker 1>treatments that they needed, so he started helping raise money

442
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>for other burn victims and became an advocate for the

443
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 1>hospital and the children inside of it. Even after everything

444
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.640
<v Speaker 1>that had happened to him, Robbie remained deeply empathetic to others.

445
00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow, what a beautiful human I know.

446
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.200
<v Speaker 1>People close to him said he loved animals and hated

447
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.079
<v Speaker 1>seeing anything suffer. One story even recalled him crying after

448
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.000
<v Speaker 1>finding dead wildlife prior to all this because he could

449
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:14.440
<v Speaker 1>not stand the thought of animals being hurt, and he

450
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 1>even reportedly wanted to work with rehabilitating injured animals one

451
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.240
<v Speaker 1>day now. Eventually, Robbie actually became well enough that he

452
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 1>could return to school, but that transition was very difficult,

453
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.880
<v Speaker 1>to say the least at first, some children stared at

454
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>him or made very cruel comments about his appearance. See

455
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.000
<v Speaker 1>the burns that Robbie was left with. While visible, scars

456
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:42.839
<v Speaker 1>covered almost his entire body, leaving him very scarred and disfigured,

457
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.039
<v Speaker 1>and after spending years in hospital and surgeries, re entering

458
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 1>normal life wasn't easy, But over time classmates began seeing

459
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:56.160
<v Speaker 1>past those scars. Of his friends described Robbie as funny, determined,

460
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.640
<v Speaker 1>and surprisingly social considering everything that he had survived and

461
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.839
<v Speaker 1>the he was still actively going through. People who knew him,

462
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:08.440
<v Speaker 1>even said he rarely wanted sympathy. Instead, he just tried

463
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:12.599
<v Speaker 1>to move forward. He joked with nurses, He even flirted

464
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 1>with some hospital staff. As he was getting older, he

465
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.319
<v Speaker 1>talked about driving someday. He participated in fundraising efforts, and

466
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.519
<v Speaker 1>at one point, after Hurricane Ike damaged the Gavelston Burne

467
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Hospital and its future became uncertain, Robbie reportedly helped hand

468
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:32.200
<v Speaker 1>out flyers advocating for the facility to reopen. He believed

469
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.359
<v Speaker 1>the hospital had saved his life and he wanted it

470
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.359
<v Speaker 1>to remain open for future burn victims to have a

471
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:42.200
<v Speaker 1>place to go, just like he did. Meanwhile, while Robbie

472
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>spent his teenage years and during all these surgeries rehabilitation,

473
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:50.039
<v Speaker 1>Don Collins was living a very different life. After being

474
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 1>released from juvenile detention in corrections with sort in connection

475
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.519
<v Speaker 1>with Robbie Middleton's burning, Don Collins returned to the community

476
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:02.839
<v Speaker 1>around Splendora. Legally he was free, but some investigators never

477
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:07.319
<v Speaker 1>stopped believing Don was actually fully responsible. However, without enough

478
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.799
<v Speaker 1>evidence to prosecute, the case slowly faded from public attention

479
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.079
<v Speaker 1>as the years passed.

480
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:14.759
<v Speaker 2>Imagine how much that just ate them up pay?

481
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.599
<v Speaker 1>I know right, not only the prosecutors, investigators or all

482
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:21.480
<v Speaker 1>these people working the actual case, but just the public

483
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:22.880
<v Speaker 1>and Robbie's family.

484
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, this kid did it, But like, what

485
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.759
<v Speaker 2>can you do. He's just gonna continue being out and

486
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:29.839
<v Speaker 2>about living his life.

487
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Then in two thousand and one, about three years

488
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.279
<v Speaker 1>after Robbie was burned, Don was involved in another situation.

489
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.920
<v Speaker 1>See he was accused of assaulting another eight year old boy,

490
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.559
<v Speaker 1>and according to testimony later introduced in court, Don threatened

491
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Speaker 1>the child with a gun before sexually assaulting and raping

492
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 1>him seriously. Now, the details of that assault remained very

493
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>limited publicly because of the case moving through the juvene

494
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.319
<v Speaker 1>no system and the age of the individuals, so many

495
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 1>of those records are sealed. But the conviction, however, became

496
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.240
<v Speaker 1>enormously important years later when prosecutors reopened Robbie's case. And

497
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 1>one of the most disturbing details that emerged from that

498
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.599
<v Speaker 1>case much later was when the victim testified in court

499
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 1>that Dawn threatened to burn him. Quote like he burned

500
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:23.599
<v Speaker 1>that little boy.

501
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, that is so disturbing.

502
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 1>And he threatened that if he ever told anyone what had.

503
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Happened, such a little shit.

504
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.079
<v Speaker 1>I know, right, isn't that infuriating?

505
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It just oh, it pisses you off so much

506
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>when someone is so freaking evil and then they just

507
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.160
<v Speaker 2>are able to get out or aren't held to the

508
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:49.839
<v Speaker 2>consequences they should be, and then they do something terrible again.

509
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:51.119
<v Speaker 1>I know. It keeps going.

510
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

511
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Now. Don was ultimately convicted of the sexual assault in

512
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:59.720
<v Speaker 1>this case and was sent to Texas Youth Commission, where

513
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.279
<v Speaker 1>here remained until he was at the age of twenty one.

514
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.440
<v Speaker 1>The facility there emphasizes rehabilitation programs and counseling opportunities for

515
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 1>juvenile offenders, and according to many accounts, Don showed very

516
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.759
<v Speaker 1>little interest in participating in any meanful way in any

517
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.759
<v Speaker 1>of those offerings of rehabilitation or any sort of programs.

518
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 1>But either way, by the time he was released, he

519
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.759
<v Speaker 1>was now officially a registered sex offender, and the legal

520
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.920
<v Speaker 1>trouble for him didn't stop there either. Over the following years,

521
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Don was repeatedly accused of failing to comply with sex

522
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 1>offender registration requirements. He even served additional time connected to

523
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.039
<v Speaker 1>failure to register charges and other criminal offenses, including theft

524
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.480
<v Speaker 1>related crimes, and most of all, he continued displaying violent

525
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.519
<v Speaker 1>and predatory behavior.

526
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:49.039
<v Speaker 2>So he just wasn't taken to any of this seriously. No.

527
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:56.039
<v Speaker 1>Witnesses even later described Don bragging about burning Robbie Middleton.

528
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow, disgusting.

529
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.640
<v Speaker 1>So they can't exactly prove it, and he's boasting about it.

530
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he got away with it, so he's like, what

531
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:04.799
<v Speaker 2>else can I get away with?

532
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Now. Several former juvenile detainees that he was, you know,

533
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 1>locked up with, later claimed Don openly talked about the

534
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 1>attack while he was put away. Some even said he

535
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>used the story to intimidate other younger boys, and one

536
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:23.079
<v Speaker 1>witness alleged Don described details of the crime while laughing

537
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:24.319
<v Speaker 1>about it openly.

538
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.119
<v Speaker 2>He almost seems proud of what he did, which is

539
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:32.359
<v Speaker 2>beyond like, how do you even comprehend that it's fucked

540
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>because he would know, he would know, you know, Robbie

541
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:36.599
<v Speaker 2>was going through to some extent.

542
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:38.559
<v Speaker 1>But he doesn't give a shit. That's the kind of

543
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:41.359
<v Speaker 1>person this guy is. Ah, not a single fuck is

544
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:42.119
<v Speaker 1>given by him.

545
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The fact that someone like that is in this world

546
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>is beyond.

547
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Me, I know. Now. Another witness, Don's cousin, Heather White,

548
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.880
<v Speaker 1>would later testify that Dawn even confessed to her shortly

549
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:59.079
<v Speaker 1>after the attack on Robbie even occurred. According to her account,

550
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:03.519
<v Speaker 1>Don described raping Robbie and then setting him on fire

551
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.480
<v Speaker 1>later because he feared Robbie was going to tell someone

552
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:11.119
<v Speaker 1>what he did. Oh boy, So if that is true,

553
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.319
<v Speaker 1>that is now two counts of sexually assaulting and raping

554
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 1>a young boy. And then well one he did light

555
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.119
<v Speaker 1>him on fire, and the other he threatened with a

556
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:23.160
<v Speaker 1>gun and threatened he might light him on fire too.

557
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.799
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, I'm just like so, I'm almost sweating. I'm

558
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 2>so angry.

559
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.519
<v Speaker 1>I told you this is going to be a tough case.

560
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.720
<v Speaker 2>That is just so disgusting and such a piss off.

561
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>It's just I don't know. I just feel a lot

562
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:41.839
<v Speaker 2>of rage in my body right now.

563
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:44.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and as you should. That's why I'm having this

564
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:48.119
<v Speaker 1>whiskey here, because trust me, I was not a happy

565
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>person while I was researching and writing this case. I

566
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.279
<v Speaker 1>was getting kidding so livid.

567
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's unreal. Now.

568
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.519
<v Speaker 1>I do want to clarify though, these statements from like

569
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Don's cousin, Heather White and stuff and other former juvenile

570
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:04.359
<v Speaker 1>detainees and stuff, those statements only really existed as rumors

571
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.000
<v Speaker 1>private conversations like they're scattered witness memories basically, and loose

572
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 1>allegations that are just kind of floating around. Nothing officially

573
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 1>going to authorities, at least not yet. But even still,

574
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.119
<v Speaker 1>it seemed like Don couldn't help himself as he continued

575
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:24.599
<v Speaker 1>to at least occasionally insert himself into conversations about the

576
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 1>crime in very strange ways. Now, at one point later,

577
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:32.079
<v Speaker 1>witness mentioned how Don reportedly discussed how many times Robbie

578
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:36.079
<v Speaker 1>even fell while stumbling out of the woods after lighting

579
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:40.239
<v Speaker 1>him on fire. Now that indicates he was watching this

580
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.480
<v Speaker 1>happen too. He was watching him run away. He stayed

581
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 1>there and witnessed this entire thing. He didn't turn away,

582
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 1>he didn't run away. He wasn't fearful of what he

583
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:55.159
<v Speaker 1>had done. He was watching the whole damn thing, which is.

584
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Kind of I don't know, Well, it's obviously very unsettling that.

585
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.639
<v Speaker 2>Do you think just being a thirteen year old boy

586
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:06.679
<v Speaker 2>seeing what you just did would alarm the shit out

587
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:06.840
<v Speaker 2>of you.

588
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, it didn't seem like it did, because there was

589
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.199
<v Speaker 1>also reports that would eventually come to light about how

590
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 1>Dawn collected burnt pieces of clothing connected to the incident.

591
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Uh, you have literally two ends of the spectrum here,

592
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the most beautiful human and basically the worst.

593
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, there was also allegations of their potentially being

594
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 1>another boy present named Rex. As far as I can tell,

595
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.159
<v Speaker 1>this happened early in the investigation, but nothing really came

596
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:40.079
<v Speaker 1>of it. And still none of this information, whether it

597
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 1>was the clothing that was potentially connected collected, this other

598
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.079
<v Speaker 1>boy who may have been present or may not have

599
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>been present, or these other allegations of what he confessed

600
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.519
<v Speaker 1>coming to light, none of it was enough to reopen

601
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:56.119
<v Speaker 1>the case. It was just all rumors, and for years

602
00:35:56.199 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Robbie's attack remained suspended in a very strange place, as

603
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 1>memories just faded, witnesses moved away, some people even died,

604
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Physical evidence degraded, and the case became increasingly difficult to

605
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:14.559
<v Speaker 1>prove with certainty, especially considering the weakness that had already

606
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:18.960
<v Speaker 1>caused prosecutors to back away in nineteen ninety eight. But

607
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:24.159
<v Speaker 1>then another devastating mistake happened in two thousand and six.

608
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Critical evidence collected from the original crime scene was destroyed.

609
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Now at the time, authorities still considered the case as

610
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Speaker 1>an assault investigation rather than a homicide, and Since no

611
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 1>charge had been filed against Dawn, the statue of limitations

612
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 1>on certain offenses was believed to have expired, and so

613
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:48.920
<v Speaker 1>a judge signed a destruction order authorizing disposal of stored

614
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.519
<v Speaker 1>evidence connected to the case. Among those items destroyed were

615
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:58.159
<v Speaker 1>cigarette butts recovered from the woods, a lighter, fuel related materials,

616
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:01.639
<v Speaker 1>a plastic jug hose, and a gauge connected to a

617
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:05.360
<v Speaker 1>boat fuel tank, Burnt clothing, and other seen evidence investigators

618
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 1>had preserved since the original date in nineteen ninety eight,

619
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.440
<v Speaker 1>And to top it all off, no DNA testing had

620
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.639
<v Speaker 1>ever been performed on many of these items, so by

621
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:18.239
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and six, much of the physical evidence from

622
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:24.639
<v Speaker 1>this crime scene was simply gone forever. Meanwhile, Robbie Middleton

623
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 1>kept fighting for his health, and by the late two thousands,

624
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:31.519
<v Speaker 1>his body was still paying for the price of what

625
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:34.480
<v Speaker 1>had happened to him in the woods all the way

626
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:39.320
<v Speaker 1>back in nineteen ninety eight. The surgeries continued, the scar

627
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:44.159
<v Speaker 1>tissue continued tightening, chronic wounds continued reopening. Years of grass

628
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:48.440
<v Speaker 1>and reconstruction had placed enormous stress on his body, and

629
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>yet people around Robbie consistently described him as positive now,

630
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 1>even though Robbie was consistently in high spirits. Underneath all

631
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>that optimism, there were still signs that the attack had

632
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:06.559
<v Speaker 1>never truly left him psychologically. According to his mother, Robbie

633
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:11.039
<v Speaker 1>sometimes believed he saw Don Collins outside watching him. It

634
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:14.199
<v Speaker 1>seems that even years later, the fear remained buried somewhere

635
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:18.559
<v Speaker 1>inside him, never really truly letting him rest. And then

636
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:22.840
<v Speaker 1>in twenty eleven, everything changed. After more than a decade

637
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of surgeries and survival, doctors discovered that Robbie had developed

638
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:34.079
<v Speaker 1>an extremely aggressive form of squamos cell carcinoma, a rare

639
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:38.280
<v Speaker 1>cancer that medical experts later linked directly to the massive

640
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>burn trauma and years of reconstructive skin graft procedures that

641
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:46.320
<v Speaker 1>he had undergone since nineteen ninety eight.

642
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Right there, it's like, how is life fair?

643
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Hey?

644
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.840
<v Speaker 2>I know that should not be something that happened.

645
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:57.119
<v Speaker 1>So at this point, Robbie was twenty years old, and

646
00:38:57.199 --> 00:38:59.719
<v Speaker 1>although he had fought the odds over the course of

647
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:04.760
<v Speaker 1>these several several hard years, this time the prognosis was

648
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:10.239
<v Speaker 1>very different. Robbie was told he was dying. For years,

649
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.119
<v Speaker 1>he had survived surgeries, people never expected him to survive.

650
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.599
<v Speaker 1>He had adapted to pain most people could never imagine,

651
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:20.480
<v Speaker 1>but the cancer spread aggressively, and eventually doctors determined there

652
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.880
<v Speaker 1>was little more they could do, so as the time

653
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:28.840
<v Speaker 1>continued on and as Robbie's condition deteriorated, the unresolved question

654
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:32.519
<v Speaker 1>surrounding the attack that destroyed his life it still remained.

655
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Don Collins had never been prosecuted for burning him. The

656
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:40.320
<v Speaker 1>original case had collapsed years earlier, and despite persistent suspicions,

657
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 1>no one had been convicted. Robbie knew that he had

658
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.440
<v Speaker 1>always known that, and according to his family and investigators,

659
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:51.679
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to finally tell the full story of what

660
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.400
<v Speaker 1>had happened to him that day before he died. So

661
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:01.599
<v Speaker 1>on April twelfth, twenty eleven, Robbie gave a videotaped deposition

662
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.679
<v Speaker 1>from his bed while receiving palliative care. The deposition lasted

663
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.880
<v Speaker 1>roughly twenty seven minutes, with Robbie being sworn in at

664
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the beginning. People who later saw portions of the recording

665
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.559
<v Speaker 1>described Robbie as physically exhausted and visibly weakened by the cancer,

666
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:21.800
<v Speaker 1>but despite the condition he was in investigators and prosecutors

667
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.920
<v Speaker 1>said he remained very focused while recounting the story. Of

668
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.360
<v Speaker 1>what had happened to him, and during the deposition, Robbie

669
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:31.679
<v Speaker 1>again identified Don Collins as the person who attacked him

670
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:36.760
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety eight, but this time he revealed far

671
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:41.440
<v Speaker 1>more than he had before. Robbie alleged that approximately two

672
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:46.000
<v Speaker 1>weeks before the burning had occurred, Dawn had committed sexual

673
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.639
<v Speaker 1>assault and rape against him in the wooded area near

674
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:54.599
<v Speaker 1>the Neighborhood trails. According to Robbie's account, the attack on

675
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:57.719
<v Speaker 1>June twenty eighth, when he was dosed in gasoline and

676
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:01.599
<v Speaker 1>lit a blaze. It happened because Dawn feared Robbie was

677
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 1>eventually going to tell someone what he had done. Robbie

678
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.440
<v Speaker 1>also alleged that he was sexually assaulted again that same

679
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 1>day during the day he was burned. According to later prosecutors,

680
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:17.440
<v Speaker 1>the motive behind the attack was twofold to destroy evidence

681
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:22.400
<v Speaker 1>connected to the earlier assault and to silence Robbi through terror, violence,

682
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.679
<v Speaker 1>and even the extent of possible death before he could

683
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:31.199
<v Speaker 1>report what had happened. Now for investigators this deposition, it

684
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.920
<v Speaker 1>changed everything. The original nineteen ninety eight case had largely

685
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>centered around arson and aggravated assault allegations involving a child's suspect,

686
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:44.760
<v Speaker 1>But Robbie's final statement introduced a whole new alleged motive

687
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:49.480
<v Speaker 1>that prosecutors later argued transformed the crime into capital murder

688
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:55.159
<v Speaker 1>tied to another felony offense. Now, ultimately, I've alluded to

689
00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 1>this already, but seventeen days after giving that deposition, Robbie

690
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Middleton passed away. He died on April twenty ninth, twenty eleven,

691
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.320
<v Speaker 1>in Galveston, only weeks before what would have been his

692
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.239
<v Speaker 1>twenty first birthday.

693
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:15.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, gracious.

694
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Doctors concluded that his death was due to the aggressive

695
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.280
<v Speaker 1>skin cancer that was tied directly to the ongoing medical

696
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:26.639
<v Speaker 1>issues that he suffered due to the arsenal assault years earlier,

697
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and so the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide.

698
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting that,

699
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 2>but that makes sense.

700
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, just like that, Robbie's death changed the legal

701
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:42.960
<v Speaker 1>landscape around the entire case.

702
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Huh So.

703
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:48.639
<v Speaker 1>Almost immediately, renewed pressure began to build around Montgomery County

704
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:54.119
<v Speaker 1>authorities to revisit that investigation. Public attention slowly returned. Reporters

705
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:57.320
<v Speaker 1>began revisiting the story and questions resurfaced about why Dawn

706
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Collins had never been prosecuted despite Robbie naming him years earlier,

707
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:07.599
<v Speaker 1>and then the Middleton family did something unexpected. They launched

708
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:13.119
<v Speaker 1>a civil lawsuit. This was a civil wrongful death lawsuit

709
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:17.320
<v Speaker 1>directly against Don Collins, arguing that the injuries Robbie suffered

710
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.079
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety eight ultimately caused his death. Thirteen years later,

711
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>an attorney, Ken Bigham Junior and Craig Sicco both took

712
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the case on pro bono, representing the family in this

713
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.239
<v Speaker 1>wrongful death suit against Dawn. Now this is not a

714
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:40.480
<v Speaker 1>criminal case. This is a civil case, mind you. From

715
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.599
<v Speaker 1>the beginning the goal was not The goal was not

716
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:44.679
<v Speaker 1>about money for them. That was not what they were

717
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 1>After everyone involved understood Don Collins would almost certainly never

718
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.679
<v Speaker 1>be capable of paying any sort of meaningful damages, so

719
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:57.000
<v Speaker 1>instead the lawsuit became something else. Entirely a public spotlight

720
00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:00.599
<v Speaker 1>placed back onto the case that many believe the criminal

721
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:04.400
<v Speaker 1>justice system had failed to resolve, and the civil proceedings

722
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:09.960
<v Speaker 1>centered heavily around Robbie's final deposition. Jurors heard about the

723
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.079
<v Speaker 1>attack in the woods, the years of suffering that followed,

724
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.119
<v Speaker 1>and the allegations that Dawn had sexually assaulted Robbie before

725
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>burning him alive to silence him, and medical testimony connected

726
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Robbie's cancer directly to the injuries and skin graft procedures

727
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:29.039
<v Speaker 1>caused by the fire. The emotional impact over this was enormous,

728
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.119
<v Speaker 1>and by that point Robbie's story had already spread far

729
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:35.960
<v Speaker 1>beyond just Splendora. The image of an eight year old

730
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:39.559
<v Speaker 1>boy surviving burns over nearly his entire body for more

731
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.559
<v Speaker 1>than a decade, only to later die from long term effects,

732
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>ultimately turning into cancer, horrified people across the country. In

733
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:54.440
<v Speaker 1>December of twenty eleven, a jury in Lagrange sided with

734
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Robbie's family and they awarded them a one hundred and

735
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:06.000
<v Speaker 1>fifty billion with a b US dollars in damages against

736
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:13.079
<v Speaker 1>Don Collins. It became the largest civil verdict in American history.

737
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, like, how would someone even begin to pay that?

738
00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's the thing I'm going to clarify here, that number,

739
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.960
<v Speaker 1>it's purely symbolic.

740
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

741
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Even the Middleton family and the attorneys, they openly admitted

742
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.559
<v Speaker 1>they never expected to actually collect any of that money.

743
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, how is he supposed to pay anything even

744
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:36.880
<v Speaker 1>close to that right. So, according to one of the attorneys,

745
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:39.679
<v Speaker 1>Greg Cicco, he was communicating with the jurors, and they

746
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.360
<v Speaker 1>later explained that they intentionally chose such an enormous figure

747
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:45.920
<v Speaker 1>because they wanted to make sure that their message was

748
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:51.880
<v Speaker 1>impossible to ignore. Basically, Yeah, like trying to attract national attention,

749
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.639
<v Speaker 1>trying to basically put a big stamp of like, there's

750
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:57.960
<v Speaker 1>something wrong here, law enforcement, look into it. It's not

751
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:00.559
<v Speaker 1>about the dollars, it's about the attention.

752
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.320
<v Speaker 2>That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, And that's exactly

753
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:05.079
<v Speaker 2>what it's going to get.

754
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:08.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm as right, forcing people to look at what had happened. Basically,

755
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:12.039
<v Speaker 1>like Robbie, he was a victim, and he's he passed away.

756
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.719
<v Speaker 1>He was murdered, and the person responsible is walking away.

757
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.719
<v Speaker 1>So look at this case. Figure it out.

758
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, Yeah, just because something happened, what did you say

759
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:26.880
<v Speaker 2>thirteen years ago, Yeah, doesn't mean that it can't still be,

760
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the act of a murder, the act of someone.

761
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Did this exactly now. At the same time, though, there

762
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.519
<v Speaker 1>was another growing concern see Down was expected to be

763
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.960
<v Speaker 1>released again. By then, he had already had a separate

764
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.360
<v Speaker 1>conviction involving the sexual assault of another young boy, and

765
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.119
<v Speaker 1>it spent years cycling through the criminal justice system on

766
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>additional offenses, including repeated failures to register as a sex offender.

767
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.000
<v Speaker 1>So Robbie's family feared that if authority still failed to act,

768
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Don would simply return to society once again.

769
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.679
<v Speaker 2>And probably just continue doing bad shit exactly.

770
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:06.320
<v Speaker 1>But behind the scenes, they didn't know something important had

771
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.599
<v Speaker 1>already started happening. You see, not long after Robbie's death

772
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:14.440
<v Speaker 1>was ruled a homicide in twenty eleven, investigators in Montgomery

773
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.639
<v Speaker 1>County had already reopened the case as an official homicide,

774
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:24.320
<v Speaker 1>and detectives were rebuilding the investigation almost from scratch, and

775
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:27.960
<v Speaker 1>among the investigators assigned to the renewed case were cold

776
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:33.960
<v Speaker 1>case detectives Tommy Deroy and Terence Greenwood. Together with prosecutors

777
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 1>and investigators, they began combing back through the enormous amount

778
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:41.519
<v Speaker 1>of material generated since nineteen ninety eight, and the scope

779
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:46.039
<v Speaker 1>of the review became absolutely massive. According to later testimony,

780
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:51.599
<v Speaker 1>investigators accumulated roughly fifty three thousand to fifty five thousand

781
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:55.440
<v Speaker 1>pages of reports and records. There were dozens of CDs

782
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.800
<v Speaker 1>with informations. There was banker boxes full of evidence and statements,

783
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and well over a hundred interviews connected to this case.

784
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Witnesses who had spoken publicly in the years prior were

785
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 1>all tracked down again. Old statements were re examined, Detectives

786
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:16.239
<v Speaker 1>revisited inconsistencies from the original investigation, and searched for anything

787
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:19.639
<v Speaker 1>prosecutors can now use to support the charge of murder.

788
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:25.760
<v Speaker 1>One of the biggest changes was Robbie's deposition that videotape

789
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:31.039
<v Speaker 1>that became central to the entire reopened investigation and prosecutors

790
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:35.039
<v Speaker 1>belief Robbie's detailed account of the alleged earlier sexual assault

791
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 1>and rape provided motive in a way the original investigators

792
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.639
<v Speaker 1>never fully understood in nineteen ninety eight, because, after all,

793
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:47.000
<v Speaker 1>now Robbie's not hallucinating anymore. He's very vivid about what

794
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.840
<v Speaker 1>he remembers. He is a witness to the event itself.

795
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.239
<v Speaker 1>New witnesses slowly began to emerge, too, and among them

796
00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:59.719
<v Speaker 1>were the cousin Heather White, the cousin of Dawn, and

797
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.320
<v Speaker 1>he told investigators Don confessed to her shortly after Robbie

798
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.599
<v Speaker 1>was actually attacked, and she later testified. Don admitted sexually

799
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 1>assaulting and raping Robbie, tying him up, setting him on fire,

800
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:13.519
<v Speaker 1>all that because he directly feared that Robbie would tell

801
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:17.000
<v Speaker 1>someone what happened. But even with all these new statements,

802
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.679
<v Speaker 1>there were still a major obstacle. Don Collins had been

803
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:25.039
<v Speaker 1>thirteen years old when Robbie was burned, and under Texas

804
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:29.159
<v Speaker 1>law in nineteen ninety eight, juveniles generally had to be

805
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:32.440
<v Speaker 1>at least fourteen years old before they could be transferred

806
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:38.320
<v Speaker 1>into adult court for a capital felony offense. Don had

807
00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 1>fallen below that threshold at the time of the attack.

808
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:49.199
<v Speaker 1>But by twenty eleven, however, Texas law had changed. The

809
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:53.400
<v Speaker 1>state had lowered the transfer age to ten years old

810
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:57.639
<v Speaker 1>for certain offenses after the original investigation had collapsed, so

811
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:04.000
<v Speaker 1>prosecutors now argued something legally significant. The murder itself had

812
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:09.440
<v Speaker 1>not technically occurred until Robbie died in twenty eleven. That's

813
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.960
<v Speaker 1>when the murder took place. That meant, according to the state,

814
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:14.880
<v Speaker 1>the newer law applied.

815
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, okay. So if he would have gotten charged or

816
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.360
<v Speaker 2>found guilty or whatever of this back when it happened.

817
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 1>He would have been tried as a juvenile.

818
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.280
<v Speaker 2>He could have gotten away with it. Or lower sentence

819
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.719
<v Speaker 2>or just gotten away with a lot more exactly.

820
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.400
<v Speaker 1>But the fact that Robbie survived and then passed away

821
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.639
<v Speaker 1>in twenty eleven, that's when now they're looking at it

822
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 1>as a homicide and now a new law is in place,

823
00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:43.159
<v Speaker 1>and that's the law they're going with.

824
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I mean I like that, but also you know,

825
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:50.360
<v Speaker 2>it allowed him to also have another victim and hurt

826
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:51.239
<v Speaker 2>someone else.

827
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I know, and who knows who else he could have hurt,

828
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:56.400
<v Speaker 1>even if it's not like a sexual assault or a

829
00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:59.639
<v Speaker 1>threatening or deathsent whatever, even if he's just being a

830
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.039
<v Speaker 1>bully or an asshole. Who else did he affect? Right?

831
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm sure there's many now.

832
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Defense Attorney E. T. Bond strongly disagreed with this, though,

833
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:12.239
<v Speaker 1>but whether he disagreed or not, ultimately on March. In

834
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.159
<v Speaker 1>March of twenty fourteen, the issue finally came to a

835
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.639
<v Speaker 1>head during a three day discretionary transfer hearing before Judge

836
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Kathleen Hamilton. Witness after witness took the stand and investigators

837
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:27.159
<v Speaker 1>discussed the destroyed evidence from two thousand and six. Former

838
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:30.639
<v Speaker 1>victims testified about Dawn threatening to burn children if they

839
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:34.280
<v Speaker 1>spoke out. Heather white Don's cousin described the alleged confession

840
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:38.360
<v Speaker 1>she claimed Dawn made years earlier. Cold case investigators explained

841
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>why they believe the case now contained evidence strong enough

842
00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:45.679
<v Speaker 1>to finally proceed, and at one point during the hearing,

843
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Dawn himself even briefly took the stand, but he ended

844
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.920
<v Speaker 1>up invoking his Fifth Amendment right, stating quote I will

845
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:57.480
<v Speaker 1>remain silent. Meanwhile, prosecutors argued that Robbie's final deposition, combined

846
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.719
<v Speaker 1>with the new witness statements uncovered during the cold case investigation,

847
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.519
<v Speaker 1>fundamentally changed the strength of the case compared to when

848
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:08.760
<v Speaker 1>it occurred originally in nineteen ninety eight. The defense, though

849
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.559
<v Speaker 1>insisted nothing truly existed at all, But after hearing testimony

850
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:18.559
<v Speaker 1>for three days, Judge Kathleen Hamilton issued her ruling Don

851
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Collins would be transferred into adult court, and for the

852
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:26.159
<v Speaker 1>first time since Robbie Middleton stumbled burning out of the

853
00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:29.960
<v Speaker 1>woods in nineteen ninety eight, the case was finally heading

854
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.840
<v Speaker 1>towards a murder trial. The trial for Robbie's murder began

855
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.719
<v Speaker 1>in early twenty fifteen. Prosecutors argued Don Collins burned Robbie

856
00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Middleton in an attempt to silence him after committing rape

857
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:47.559
<v Speaker 1>and sexual assault against him weeks earlier. Their case centered

858
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:53.800
<v Speaker 1>around motive, witness testimony, Robbie's disposition, and Don's later criminal history,

859
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:58.719
<v Speaker 1>as well as numerous alleged confessions made over the years. However,

860
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:04.559
<v Speaker 1>defense attorney Tapond focused on several key arguments. There were

861
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.719
<v Speaker 1>no eyewitnesses, no one that saw Don commit the crime,

862
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:10.679
<v Speaker 1>There was no physical evidence that directly tied him to

863
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 1>the attack, Robbie gave inconsistent statements in nineteen ninety eight,

864
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:20.719
<v Speaker 1>and trying Don as an adult violated constitutional protections.

865
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh, I just have to say, this defense person is

866
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:26.000
<v Speaker 2>really making me angry, and I kind of want them

867
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.920
<v Speaker 2>to shut the fuck up.

868
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.679
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, trust me, I feel you now.

869
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:35.000
<v Speaker 1>There was a major issue though causation. The defense argued

870
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that prosecution could not definitively prove Robbie's cancer, thirteen years

871
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:47.320
<v Speaker 1>later legally constituted murder caused by the original Burns. Prosecutors, however,

872
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 1>countered with medical experts who testified the cancer developed because

873
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:56.199
<v Speaker 1>of the devastating injuries and repeated graph procedures required to

874
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:57.639
<v Speaker 1>keep Robbie alive.

875
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, he wouldn't have gotten this if he didn't

876
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.400
<v Speaker 2>have to go through everything he went through exactly now.

877
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:06.679
<v Speaker 1>One of the most emotional moments of the trial came

878
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.679
<v Speaker 1>when jurors watched portions of Robbie's videotape deposition, recorded just

879
00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:16.440
<v Speaker 1>seventeen days before he ultimately died. The severely scarred, almost

880
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:20.199
<v Speaker 1>twenty one year old described the assault and identified Don

881
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Collins directly as the person who set him on fire

882
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.400
<v Speaker 1>that faithful day when he was just eight years old.

883
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:29.360
<v Speaker 1>In order to keep him silent, according to multiple reports,

884
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Don sat there in the courtroom with his back partially

885
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:36.039
<v Speaker 1>turned towards the projection screen and spent portions of the

886
00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:39.199
<v Speaker 1>testimony reading a newspaper rather than watching Robbie.

887
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Speak, are you serious?

888
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Oh what, God, a piece of shit.

889
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I cannot even believe how, I don't know, maddening. Everything

890
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:53.760
<v Speaker 2>that you're telling us is making I know.

891
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.280
<v Speaker 1>This is a fucked up kit. Like, if there's ever

892
00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:59.440
<v Speaker 1>anyone in this world, I just want to fucking slap

893
00:54:59.519 --> 00:54:59.840
<v Speaker 1>it's this.

894
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you want to just go on like with

895
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the shovel and just.

896
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, upside the head. Now. They went through every ounce

897
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:11.880
<v Speaker 1>of evidence that we discussed. They called forth all witnesses

898
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:14.400
<v Speaker 1>that they could and combed through every file they had

899
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.320
<v Speaker 1>to show Don was the monster who lit that fire

900
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:21.400
<v Speaker 1>and eventually snuffed out Robbie's life. And at one point

901
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:24.840
<v Speaker 1>during the closing arguments, lead prosecutor Rob Fryar told the

902
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.920
<v Speaker 1>juror something directly that I absolutely love. He turned to

903
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:33.960
<v Speaker 1>them and told them, quote today that little boy gets

904
00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:38.880
<v Speaker 1>to hit back end quote. And on February ninth, twenty fifteen,

905
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the jury found Don Collins guilty of the capital murder

906
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:45.519
<v Speaker 1>of Robbie Middleton.

907
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Thank goodness.

908
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.360
<v Speaker 1>On February tenth, the very next day, Don Collins was

909
00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:54.280
<v Speaker 1>convicted of capital murder and jurors returned to the courtroom

910
00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:58.360
<v Speaker 1>to decide his punishment. Under Texas law, the maximum sentence

911
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Don could receive was limited because he had been thirteen

912
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 1>years old when Robbie Middleton was attacked in nineteen ninety eight.

913
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:07.559
<v Speaker 1>He may have been tried as an adult, but his

914
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:11.920
<v Speaker 1>sentencing was still limited. Even though prosecutors successfully tried him

915
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:16.079
<v Speaker 1>this way, their hands were still a bit tied, but

916
00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the jury gave him the maximum that they could, and

917
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:24.719
<v Speaker 1>he received forty years in prison. Now, because of Texas

918
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:28.280
<v Speaker 1>sentencing rules, Don will eventually become eligible for parole after

919
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:32.800
<v Speaker 1>serving roughly half that sentence, though parole is far from guaranteed.

920
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Defense attorney E. Ta Bond also announced plans to appeal

921
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:41.000
<v Speaker 1>all these things that largely focused on two arguments, whether

922
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:43.239
<v Speaker 1>Don could legally be tried as an adult under laws

923
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:46.280
<v Speaker 1>that changed after nineteen ninety eight, and whether Robbie's cancer

924
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:51.159
<v Speaker 1>legally constituted murder caused by the original burns, and those

925
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:52.880
<v Speaker 1>appeals were ultimately rejected.

926
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, thank goodness, Like, why is this person bothering me

927
00:56:56.840 --> 00:56:59.920
<v Speaker 2>so much? Like what is he doing? I know he

928
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 2>was just doing his job, but seriously.

929
00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:07.559
<v Speaker 1>For Robbie's family, the conviction brought relief, but not full closure.

930
00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Throughout the proceedings, calling Middleton continued insisting that she believed

931
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:15.519
<v Speaker 1>another person had been present during the attack in the

932
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:19.800
<v Speaker 1>woods that day. According to her investigators years earlier suggested

933
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.840
<v Speaker 1>there may have been an unidentified adult on the trail

934
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:26.360
<v Speaker 1>with Dawn that day that Robbie was burned, but that

935
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:29.599
<v Speaker 1>mystery was never fully resolved and there was not much

936
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:30.639
<v Speaker 1>proof to go with it.

937
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I also just have to say, just seeing

938
00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:36.800
<v Speaker 2>what kind of person Dawn is, I feel like they

939
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:39.360
<v Speaker 2>would have thrown that person under the bus pretty easily.

940
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Probably now whether there was someone else out there or

941
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:45.480
<v Speaker 1>not with Don that day, and we don't know. But

942
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Robbie's legacy continued growing far beyond the courtroom and the

943
00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:54.280
<v Speaker 1>story of assault, arson, and murder. Inside the Gavelston Burn community,

944
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Robbie had become deeply respected for the way he handled

945
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:03.360
<v Speaker 1>unimaginable sufferingrapists. Nurses and doctors who worked with him remembered

946
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:06.320
<v Speaker 1>him not just for the scale of his injuries, but

947
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.639
<v Speaker 1>for the way he treated other people while enduring them.

948
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:13.960
<v Speaker 1>He became known for encouraging younger burn victims, helping with

949
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:17.639
<v Speaker 1>fundraising efforts, and advocating for the hospital that helped save

950
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:21.719
<v Speaker 1>his life, and eventually, the city of Galveston recognized his

951
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:27.239
<v Speaker 1>impact by declaring June twenty eighth Robbie's birthday as Robert

952
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Middleton Day. A plaque featuring Robbie's photograph and the city's

953
00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:37.519
<v Speaker 1>proclamation was placed inside the Burn Center lobby. The attack

954
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:40.559
<v Speaker 1>on Robbie Middleton remained one of the most horrifying crimes

955
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.039
<v Speaker 1>many of the investigators and doctors and witnesses had ever encountered.

956
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:48.000
<v Speaker 1>An eight year old boy had walked into the woods

957
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.239
<v Speaker 1>on his birthday to go invite a friend to a

958
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:54.079
<v Speaker 1>backyard camp out, and he came back out burnt over

959
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:59.760
<v Speaker 1>nearly his entire body. By every medical expectation, Robbie should

960
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:03.639
<v Speaker 1>have died in nineteen ninety eight. Instead, he survived long

961
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.440
<v Speaker 1>enough to tell investigators what had happened to him and

962
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:10.760
<v Speaker 1>to make a positive impact in others' lives. More than

963
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:14.599
<v Speaker 1>sixteen years after the fire, a jury finally believed him.

964
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:19.800
<v Speaker 1>He was more than a victim. He was funny, kind

965
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:24.199
<v Speaker 1>and inspiring even in the face of unimaginable pain. But

966
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:30.559
<v Speaker 1>also Robbie Middleton, he has since become a symbol of resilience, compassion,

967
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:36.480
<v Speaker 1>and the refusal to stop fighting. And that's the story

968
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:43.880
<v Speaker 1>of Robbie Middleton. Oh that's a tough one to swallow.

969
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Almost feeling guilty because I am freaking angry. I don't know.

970
00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:51.480
<v Speaker 2>This is one of the cases I think that's made

971
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:55.079
<v Speaker 2>me the most angry. But then you just have to

972
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:59.559
<v Speaker 2>sit back and try, Like Robbie wouldn't want that, right.

973
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he would, So I.

974
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Just trying to like get some of his energy, I

975
01:00:04.519 --> 01:00:07.039
<v Speaker 2>guess you could say, because he was he just seemed

976
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:10.760
<v Speaker 2>like the most freaking incredible person ever, because he could

977
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:14.760
<v Speaker 2>have you know, given up or just been the complete opposite,

978
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:18.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, just sat there, kind of kept himself, not

979
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.559
<v Speaker 2>really even tried, and no one would or not try

980
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.920
<v Speaker 2>to engage with other people, and no one would honestly

981
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:24.519
<v Speaker 2>have even.

982
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Blamed him, No, not after what he went through.

983
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:29.480
<v Speaker 2>But the fact that he didn't do that and he

984
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:34.800
<v Speaker 2>was still you know, advocating and fundraising and stuff, Holy shit,

985
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:36.880
<v Speaker 2>that is just mind blowing to me that someone can

986
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:37.760
<v Speaker 2>be that amazing.

987
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:42.159
<v Speaker 1>Well, I even imagine like he was in constant pain,

988
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:45.960
<v Speaker 1>that's a sheer fact of his life. And so he's

989
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:51.000
<v Speaker 1>pushing through this pain to help other kids with burns

990
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.440
<v Speaker 1>go through what they're going through. He's going out and

991
01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:59.800
<v Speaker 1>handing out flyers and fundraising all while he's still enduring

992
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:03.519
<v Speaker 1>his his own battle. But he's pushing that aside for

993
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:04.760
<v Speaker 1>other people.

994
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:07.760
<v Speaker 2>And would be an inspiration to them because if they're

995
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:11.679
<v Speaker 2>seeing him and what he's going through, right and maybe

996
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:14.159
<v Speaker 2>not saying what they are going through is far less

997
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:16.079
<v Speaker 2>or anything, but it might have been you know, maybe

998
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:18.519
<v Speaker 2>they were fifty percent burned or whatever. They're like, well,

999
01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:20.440
<v Speaker 2>then if he can do this, like I can do.

1000
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:23.280
<v Speaker 1>This exactly being an inspiration to those who need that

1001
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:26.599
<v Speaker 1>an inspiration. Yeah, he didn't have an inspiration, he became

1002
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:28.039
<v Speaker 1>the inspiration.

1003
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:33.320
<v Speaker 2>And which is wild because yeah, no one like yeah,

1004
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:35.480
<v Speaker 2>going the opposite way. Like I said, no one would

1005
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.119
<v Speaker 2>blame you. So it just really shows the character that

1006
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:39.639
<v Speaker 2>he had.

1007
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but to that Dawn character, fuck him.

1008
01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I know. I honestly think that there should be

1009
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:49.400
<v Speaker 2>like a petition or something that he never ever gets

1010
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:50.000
<v Speaker 2>out of jail.

1011
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I agree, like the fact that he was just even

1012
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:56.360
<v Speaker 1>in the courtroom just reading newspapers as as Robbie's deposition

1013
01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:58.719
<v Speaker 1>is playing, and he's just ignoring.

1014
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:00.719
<v Speaker 2>It, this disrespectful piece garbage.

1015
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So ah, we've covered many a monsters on this

1016
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:09.039
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast, with many of those tales, and that is, uh,

1017
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:11.760
<v Speaker 1>that's a fucking monster I've ever seen one.

1018
01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because how could you not feel guilty or upset

1019
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:16.920
<v Speaker 2>or bad for what you did?

1020
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:18.639
<v Speaker 1>He clearly doesn't, though.

1021
01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:21.239
<v Speaker 2>I just don't even I don't understand.

1022
01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:24.239
<v Speaker 1>That though someone like that, they do not have a soul.

1023
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:28.559
<v Speaker 1>That is my firm belief. Dawn does not have a soul.

1024
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:32.719
<v Speaker 1>He's a fucking monster and he should rot period.

1025
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:33.239
<v Speaker 2>M hm.

1026
01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:36.280
<v Speaker 1>My voice is getting raspy because I'm like starting to

1027
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:37.800
<v Speaker 1>get fucking angry and I'm yelling and.

1028
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:43.079
<v Speaker 2>Like, ah okay, but no, we're ending this with Robbie's energy.

1029
01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yes, Robbie was man like I said, an inspiration.

1030
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:50.920
<v Speaker 1>The fact that he could push through that and still

1031
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.800
<v Speaker 1>have you know, hope light in his eyes and even

1032
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.440
<v Speaker 1>fight back seventeen days before he ultimately passed away and

1033
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:03.119
<v Speaker 1>succumb to the injuries. Man, that's an inspiration.

1034
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it really is. Yeah.

1035
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:07.000
<v Speaker 1>So I've got a bit of whiskey left in my glass,

1036
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:11.360
<v Speaker 1>cheers us to Robbie, to Robbie, and then it's going

1037
01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:15.039
<v Speaker 1>down the hatch, and we got to try and make

1038
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:18.880
<v Speaker 1>sure that on June twenty eighth we maybe have a

1039
01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:19.840
<v Speaker 1>moment for Robbie.

1040
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.360
<v Speaker 2>No kidding, a post or something of sort.

1041
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm going to put it in my calendar because

1042
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that guy he deserves the world, He really does.

1043
01:03:28.599 --> 01:03:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you took the words right out of me.

1044
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:33.239
<v Speaker 1>So thank you guys for being here with us. If

1045
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:36.079
<v Speaker 1>you want, go ahead and put June twenty eighth in

1046
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:41.360
<v Speaker 1>your calendar as well. Yeah, he deserves it. That's all

1047
01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:42.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna say. I'm just gonna end it. There, Thank

1048
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:44.760
<v Speaker 1>you for being here. You guys are amazing and until

1049
01:03:44.840 --> 01:05:30.199
<v Speaker 1>next time, stay wicked. Th oh oh oh