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Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well. To welcome everyone back to the Pekinana Show. I've
been waiting for part two. Glad we could do it now. Stormy,
how are you doing.
Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic. It's pleasure.
Speaker 4: Filos, how are you also doing excellent? It's great to
be here.
Speaker 2: Awesome?
Speaker 1: All right, Part two talking about the Dulles Brothers and
the CIA and Filos. You remember where we left off,
so please just jump right in.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 4: So where we left off was we were going through
the early nineteen fifties in the CIA and how the
US military had been infiltrated by the Agency and how
a lot of these different points of information that we
have access to today are because there's a lack of
classification over them, and there's a few kind of smaller
stories about their activities. And a big takeaway also was
James Jesus Angleton. So just to kind of jog the
audience's memory, there pretty obviously associated with Israel and all
the different operations. So there's many diff different angles we
could work on today with this. I'd like to still
keep going through the nineteen fifties in the Agency and
talking about a guy called Lyman Kirkpatrick. But before I
get into that, there is another subject I want to
talk about, which is how do I kind of couch
this In reading about the Dullest Brothers, there's all of
these lefty and progressive sources that are written describing these
men as fascist and authoritarian and oppressive for going around
the world knocking over native governments and causing regime change.
And I wanted to just very briefly address some of
the more critical perspectives against the Dullest Brothers and against
the CIA and the fifties, because so much of what
we know nowadays, so much of our perception of these
men in their activity, is colored by a bunch of
lefty academics. So if you two are cool with that,
I can kind of go through a few academic presuppositions
and I guess kind of debunk them.
Speaker 3: I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with my intelligence
agency toppling Nicaragua and Guatemalan unduring governments whenever they want
to fuck with United fruit or standard oil.
Speaker 4: So this is where this is where I imagine we're
going to find some agreement. So the first critical lefty
presupposition that you find in guys like David Talbot in
the Devil's Chess Board or the Chompsky Angle of Things
is that all colonialism that happens in the world is
bad or evil. But rather than calling out these other systems,
like the Chinese system, or the Russian system, or the
British system or the French system. They'll go after the
United States because the way that the United States conducts
colonialism is I would argue, actually more beneficial than all
of those other systems. Something that's curiously absent from most
progressives is criticizing other forms of regime change and economic dominance.
I would argue that the Dullest Brothers going into Guatemala
and Nicaragua and a lot of these other CIA activities,
even the Cuban Revolution, it's actually much more benevolent and
respectful of a culture's autonomy than other countries conducting colonialism.
And how can I possibly justify that when there's people
getting killed. Well, what the Chinese do when they impose
colonialism on a country is they take out a one
hundred year lease on infrastructure development for ports and highways
and wholly cut out the native population. They conduct widespread
economic exploitation of whatever country in Africa or Southeast Asia
or Latin America that they go into. And a similar
system with the Russians and the Soviets, they would come
in and impose their ideological change, but generally, as long
as the country was nominally communist, they wouldn't care as
much about the economic production that's going on there. And
before I try and really defend American colonialism, I have
to describe the British and the French background here a
little bit. So the world in which the Dullest Brothers
are operating is the beginning of the post colonial world
in the twentieth century. Prior to the nineteen sixties, most
of the world was directly administered in a colonial fashion,
and most of that was done by the British or
the French or the Americans. And the British system was
they would pick a country and they would establish a
cast of people within that country. They would point to
them and say this group is wider or more Anglo
or more ready to be westernized than another ethnic group,
and then that first group would receive power and then
they would totally dominate the second group by using British
colonial administrative structure with like a nominal overcast of British
administrative officials. This is why the British promoted the caste
system within India. And then conversely you have the French system,
and in the French system, you have a very strict
colonial apparatus. Particularly this was in French West Africa, and
the French would come in with their system of Napoleonic
code and their departments, and they would entirely staff the
colonial regime on an indigenous meritocracy within that country. And
it's very unpopular nowadays to defend that kind of Western
colonialism against its alternative forms. But one thing I kind
of arrived at when researching the activities of the Dulles brothers,
I sort of realized that the modern liberal calculus of
just economically desecrating countries and having the IMF and the
World Bank go around in greater world economies in the
nineteen nineties and two thousands by allowing a Jewish international
capital to buy like a native state owned enterprise, that's
actually significantly more harmful in the long term than a
short term regime change that the Dullest brothers were doing.
It's a pretty controversial statement, So do either of you
have any thought on that that stormy?
Speaker 3: I do actually so right. First off, like the in
this analysis, they are basically weighing one thing that's not real,
it's never going to be real. And then what we
do because if I am let's say, like an alien civilization,
I zip up and I find Earth, unless I find
Earth six thousand years ago, might I have? I'm everyone
would expect me to just take whatever the fuck I wanted,
and that that is the things that would naturally happen.
And so the the there is not like an alternative,
not an actual real politics where we just come across
either strategically valuable real estate, whether it be location or
in minerals resources whichever, that we can leverage in actual
life or death competition with the other developed nation states.
It's a game. It's Geopolitics is like the fucking Highlander.
There's only going to be one and when there's not,
there's going to be great struggle. And eventually we hope
that some of these struggles balance each other out right,
and it's just infinity stalemate. But any one of those participants,
their aim is not infinity stalemate, right there, aim at survival.
And the only way to ensure a nation's survival is
to crush its enemies. Right. Politics is what its friend
and enemy. And so there are no neutral countries. If
you're undeveloped, you don't get to be neutral, right, We
have no reason to recognize your sovereignty. You have something
that is valuable, you are enable to stop us from
taking it. If we don't take it, our enemy will
take it and use it against us. So that's the
actual alternative, right, There is no alternative reality where we
just go, oh, this is the Suez Canal, this may
be really important. Well, these guys don't look like they
can get their shit together, so I guess we've set
the fuck off home. Then huh, Like that's not a reality.
So the reason the lefties criticize only America is because
we're the biggest and we're the best, and they hate greatness.
Right if another country was the biggest and the best,
they would hate that country more than us. Rights. They
need to align themselves with the victim. Therefore they cannot
align themselves with the Hegemen. So there is no non
colonial eventuality. So that's I think what needs to happen
as far as any type hold on is I can
have a screaming cat that's about to get tossed outside
for being a Brett taken from taking from their filo.
Speaker 4: It's just something that came up as I encountered this
strange all of mirrors especially when reading the David Talbot
book and Chomsky because it looks at it looks at
like a very small Latin American or African or Southeast
Asian country, and says they are just one Western educated
communist away from being a utopia, you know, especially when
they're talking. And we'll get into guatemal a little bit later.
But the way that they refer to Guatemala is that
even though this country since and most colonial powers since
that really the year eighteen hundred, since the Industrial Revolution,
there's just been even in the era of like after
Bolivar in the eighteen twenties, there's continuous resinate regime change
between what is at the time very far right and
very far left regimes. The overall cycle of regimes within
these different countries far out paces anything that the United
States is able to even really conceive of.
Speaker 2: Real quick, real quick.
Speaker 3: Let me interjudgte. The reason why, the reason why, the
easiest way that you can defend the US system of
colonialism versus any other right is simply because we are
going to keep toppling. So why did we rebuild Europe?
Why was that important to us? It wasn't because we
particularly love French people, and we know how you know,
the people that were running the show felt about German
people at that time. Yes, there was people that did
not feel that way, q Alan Dulles and John Foster,
but we rebuilt those nations at considerable expense because there
is not more fertile ground. More fertile ground does not
exist anywhere in the world for communist revolution than a
bombed out shit bombed out shithold is about as good
as it gets, right. It is a revolutionary's wet dream.
And all the countries in South and Central America at
the time were bombed out shitholes, either bombed out by
themselves or just shitholes day facto. Either way, it's fertile
ground for communist revolution, as you can see, because communism
just catches very very quickly. So if we are in
a life or death struggle against the Soviet Union, we
have two options. I think Thomas lays it out great, Pete,
when I think you guys were talking about Vietnam right
at the point in time that you're talking about Filo.
In the fifties and later in the sixties, the US
was losing to communism. Communists were talking up w after
W after w all across the Eurasian land mass and
in Africa. So we just don't fuck with these countries
in our own backyard is not an option. It's not right.
We're not going to become a garrison nation. And no leader,
no responsible leader of the American nation would in any
good conscience do that or allow that to take place. Right,
if there's any place that needs to be toppled, it's
the one in your own backyard. If there is a
country full of resources or just really real estate, that
is the country that you can't turn around and just
you know, let them exist. However, it's the one that
is directly connected to you via land. Right. The reason
that the US is in the defensible position that it
is is because the people that hate us happened to
have an ocean in between us and them. So creating
a situation where they no longer have an ocean between
us and them isn't simply not allowed. So we didn't
go impose some harsh caste system like Philo mentioned. We
didn't do the terrible French way, which I mean still
goes on today, by the way, which everybody should check
out the West African frank We didn't do any of these.
We just did a test of anti fragility filo, Like
Pilot just said, we're gonna keep on toppling these until
you can fucking build one or assemble one that is
resilient to communism. And you're gonna try, and it's not
going to be resilient, and then it's going to be
taken over or begin to be taken over by communists,
and then we're gonna topple that one again, and eventually
you will have a government that's able to defend itself
from communism that you built yourself. Right, So we are
forcing them, right. The US is acting as the evolution
the rapid evolutionary forcing function for resiliency. Like, yes, US
companies will do business there. The fact that there are
US companies that do business there is actually what stops
the communists from invading or trying to take it over. Right,
the same reason that Trump's like, yeah, I'm not going
to try and put troops in Ukraine, but I'm going
to put businesses in Ukraine. I think it's a dumb
idea because fuck Ukraine, frankly, But if we're talking about
monroad doctrine like my backyard, then I do care, right,
But putting businesses in Ukraine is his way of not
putting troops. It is as much of a trip wire, right. So,
once the US business is there in Ukraine, if Putin
comes in and tries to take it away, it gives
you the diplomatic leeway to act the same way as
if you had troops there. So the population, since the
hypothesis of US not taking them in a colonialist effort
does not exist in reality, we have two options. We
either station troops there or poor capital into the country. Right,
no matter how many troops we station there, that's never
going to develop the country anymore. Will take what we want,
but there will be no knockdown, There will be no
second and third order effects that benefit anybody else there. Right,
So business is always going to better than bullets. And
rather than imposing a form of government, we will allow
one to form organically. And if it is, if it
ever ceases to be able to defend itself against communism,
we're going to knock it over again. And we'll keep
knocking the sand castle Overlert until they build one that works.
But the key factor in there is they built it,
not us. So just on its face, the US's form
of colonialism is the best if we're if we're viewing
the you know, happy feels of the natives as you know,
the prime judging mechanism. Personally, I think other forms of
colonialism would have been a lot more easy to administer
because none of that optionality would have been given to
the native population, nor would any of you know, anybody
care about their feelings. But if we're judging by the
feels of the brown people in these places, then the
US is by far the most superior, and the non
colonial option doesn't actually exist. It's false, exactly.
Speaker 4: And there is not a peep about the Chinese exploitation
of Sri Lanka. And that's a very niche example. But
everywhere that China goes and does business in an un
developed country, it will build extractive infrastructure, and when it can,
it will not interact with the native populace at all.
It will not give them a dime. And the people,
the Chinese nationals that exit China to go live in
a place like a you know, wherever in Africa, to
go mine resources and put them on Chinese trucks on
Chinese highways, to go to a Chinese port in another country,
when you ask them where are they in the world,
they will look at you and tell you China. And
there's a reason for that. There's there is no autonomy
or sovereignty with any other model of colonialism. That's a
very it's a very interesting distinction there. I'd like to
pivot back to the Central Intelligence Agency and the Dullest Brothers.
Let's see here, So there's something to point out. Very
recently to tie it in. Trump recently appointed all of
his cabinet level officials. They all went through Congress, most
of them got approved, and they were all sworn in
on television. And usually when someone at cabinet level secretary
is confirmed by Congress, they give a brief speech after
being sworn in by the President of the Congress, in
this case JD.
Speaker 2: Vance.
Speaker 4: You know, usually it's about five or ten minutes. There's
some media appearances, and then they get to work. Well,
the current Director of Central Intelligence is a man named
John Ratcliffe, and so JD. Vance gets up there before
the swearing in and Vance says quote, Normally, after I
administer the oath, I would invite the new guy to
say a few words. But given that he's the leader
of the CIA, John Ratcliffe is not going to give
any remarks because every piece of knowledge in his brain
is actually classified. So he's going to head straight to
Langley and do the job that the American people need
him to do. That's a very interesting position. How could
a cabinet level official in front of the Vice President
say no words, give no speech, be accountable not at
all to the media, and simply walk out of the
room at the behest of the Vice President. That is
because as I explain the position of the Director of
Central Intelligence, it will be very clear that this is,
depending on who you ask, the second or third most
powerful man in the country period, and that all begins
with Alan Dulls. The question has to be asked, who
is the Director of Central Intelligence? Who staffed the Central
Intelligence Agency between nineteen forty seven and nineteen sixty one.
That's such a man of such power could come from
it and enter into a position to run it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: There's three generations of men that are present in the
Central Intelligence Agency at this time. The first is a
senior group. These are American military men and corporate men
either in finance or law, that generally served in World
War One and who had vast foreign contact networks. These
men I found in reading biographies and direct histories of
the agency are exceptionally competent, worldly and political. The second
generation of men were the World War Two OSS guys.
These are highly plugged into military They are extreme experts
in the state of global affairs and also covert operations.
To them, they are the hammer to which every problem
is a nail. And the third group, the group that
begins to come into the CIA as it is set up,
is the new recruits. These are the people that are
enrolled in the Junior Agency Office Training program. According to
Lyman Kirkpatrick, this training program rivaled the executive the best
executive development programs in the industry Procter and Gamble. When
someone in the late nineteen forties and early fifties goes
into the Central Intelligence Agency, an entire year is devoted
to formal training, followed by three years of control and
guidance by the Office of Training and What kind of
people are recruited into the Central Intelligence Agency. According to
a nineteen fifty one House Appropriations meeting, some of the
most recruited quality men in the CIA were actually FBI
agents and military officers and men from corporate fields. That
I think is very interesting that the CIA would be
going in to all other government agencies and poaching their
best people. And I want to elucidate an example of
a man who is detailed by L. Fletcher Browdie, and
that man's name is Lyman Kirkpatrick, because I think the
trajectory of his career really shapes out how the Central
Intelligence Agency is taking shape at this time. He why
should you care about him in relation to Dolls, Well,
he was the executive assistant to the prior Director of
Central Intelligence, Gender General Walter Biddell Smith, and he was
also the Inspector General of the CIA, appointed by Dolls.
This man also created the Defense Intelligence Agency, and he
also wrote the Keystone Report on the Bay of Pigs invasion.
So the reason that you should give a shit about
Lyman Kirkpatrick is that he is the highest authority in
the Central Intelligence Agency that wrote a detailed primary source
book after his service. And he's also one of the
very few men, one of three that L. Fletcher Proudy
believes realistically depicts the inner functioning of the CIA. And
we'll start off with how he was recruited into the
agency prior to the nineteen seventies, really intelligent people would
be recruited on merit. It's kind of the opposite today.
It takes about two years to get into the agency.
Kirkpatrick was recruited. Okay, so I'll just give a brief
exposition of his life. He wrote a book in nineteen
sixty nine called The Real CIA where he details all this. So,
Kirkpatrick graduates from Princeton in June of nineteen thirty eight,
and he was urged by his boss, a former naval aviator,
to apply for a commission in the Naval Air Intelligence.
He gets rejected by the Navy for being mildly colorblind
in May of nineteen forty and through a friend, he's
introduced to wild Bill Donovan. At the time in nineteen forty,
Donovan is heading up the Office of Coordination of Information.
Based on the interview, Donovan really really wants this Kirkpatrick
guy on board. Kirkpatrick knows this because as he is
hanging around federal buildings trying to get a job after
being rejected by the Navy, an agent comes up from
the Civil Service Commission and flashes a badge. Kirkpatrick looks
at this badge and he realizes that this is a
fake person. And if you recall during part one of
this series, the Central Intelligence Agency and also the OSS
was very adept at getting fake people created to staff
government agencies and the military. This is a tool that
they're able to use to get information out of people.
So this man who walks up to Kirkpatrick does not
actually work for the Civil Service Commission. He knows the
investigator is obviously a little new and he's investigating on
behalf of Donovan's organization to try and find out Kirkpatrick's background.
Kirkpatrick knows this because the investigator mistakes him for his boss.
And so this man comes up to Kirkpatrick and says,
you know, what's you know? Are you know? Do you
work with Kirkpatrick? And he goes, well, yeah, you know,
where's this going to go? The first question is did
Kirkpatrick's attitude towards the war change any after Russia became involved?
This question was asked in right after I think Operation
Barbarossa in early nineteen forty two. And why would a
spook interviewers first question be about Russia in nineteen forty two?
Why wouldn't it be some kind of allegiance towards the
NO or some kind of overall sympathy with communism. I'm reminded,
Stormy of your point that all of the really involved
players in World War Two were concerned about the Soviet
Union right from the start. So he goes through this
brief questioning process and then he doesn't really think much
of it. He's being vetted at this point by several
government agencies. He then gets a call very mysteriously from
the Secretary of the Navy himself. So at this point
Kirkpatrick isn't in any government agency or service. He's just
agreed to work in Donovan's department. And the Secretary of
the Navy asks this basically, this nobody, come into my
office and you and I are going to have a talk.
So he comes in and very quickly he's sitting in
front of the Secretary of the Navy, and the secretary
asks him, how would you like to be commissioned tomorrow
as a Navy ensign and says, no, I've agreed to
join what will become the OSS And the Secretary of
the Navy leans over his desk and he says, don't
go into that crazy outfit because there's no rules and
there's no regulation. So Kirkpatrick, again similar to the fake
military personnel, gets a direct commission in the Army even
though he's not in the military, and he was rejected
from the Navy. So he has a very illustrious career
in World War Two, and as a fake Army lieutenant,
he is personally advising General Patton in General Bradley, and
then through his meteoric rise, he eventually becomes the number
three man at the Central Intelligence Agency. So why does
this matter? Why does this one man his trajectory matters. Well,
it's sort of an archetype for how this Central Intelligence
Agency could orchestrate control over different aspects of government in
order to bring the most meritocratic person to their operation.
And this was the thrust as the organization was beginning
to coalesce together after the war as well. And I
want to bring up to contextualize Dulls, I want to
bring up, briefly the previous Director of Central Intelligence, and
that is a man named General Walter Beidell Smith, who
was DCI from October of nineteen fifty to February of
nineteen fifty three. Interestingly, when Dolls replaces him as DCI,
Smith goes on to join the board of United Fruit Company.
Very interesting little fact there. The mood at the time
when General Smith was DCI was that the Korean War
was the final blow needed to force the United States
to revitalize its defense establishment and also to build a
modern intelligence system. And at Smith's right hand is Alan Dulles.
So General Smith arrives in DC in October of nineteen
fifty and he calls Dulls at his law firm, Sullivan
and Cromwell, and he says, verbatim, you wrote the report
on the CIA, Now come to Washington and help me
implement it. At this time in the Central Intelligence Agency
in nineteen fifty, there are two units operating overseas. Clandestine
collection is by the Office of Special Operations and the
covert operations are conducted by the Office of Policy Coordination.
The OsO has elements of State Department and DoD, but
the Office of Policy Coordination is just agency. So under
Dulles's direction, he consolidates these two halves. And that's where
the recruitment of people to sort of act as fake
millitary members or government officials becomes entirely the purview of
the CIA. So to make this make sense he is
removing administrative control from non CIA departments in order to
create more ambiguity about getting people involved overseas that represent
those departments, because you don't want somebody who reports into
State Department saying, Hey, there's a guy walking around here
who's claiming to be a member of the State Department.
You know, do you have him on record? Well, no,
he's actually agency. That no longer is a problem. So
General Smith is initially opposed to wanting both of these
things combined, the special operations and the policy coordination combined
into one organization. But Dulls has been pushing for this
since May of nineteen forty eight, and in June of
nineteen fifty one he combines the Latin American division of
these two departments as the first keystone move. Now, early
in his career, Dulls hadmanned the Latin America desk of
the State Department, and that becomes very critical as you
start to get into the United Fruit Company in guatemal
later on. Let's see, the CIA then begins under Dulles,
and there's a few interesting facts here. So the CIA
is formerly under Dulles's control from February of nineteen fifty
three until November of nineteen sixty one, and according to
one of his successors, Richard Helms, the National Security Act
of nineteen forty seven gave Dulles authority over the entire
intelligence community. It's been claimed that Dulles was, you know,
threading many different bureaucratic parts within the agency, but honestly
a more objective look. And this is according to Richard
Holmes personally, that all that Dulls ever gave a shit
about was operations. He cared about how to recruit KGB officers,
he cared about the vulnerabilities of on cooperative foreign governments,
how to get information from friendly intelligence services. And he
didn't really care about the line items of multi billion,
multimillion dollar budgets. And why does he have this free
bureaucratic movement. Well, after Eisenhower created the President's Board of
Consultants on Foreign Intelligence Tech Activities, Dulles suggests, you know,
he creates this board to consult on these activities. Every
single person, all ten members of this board are handpicked
by Dulles, so they have complete control over him, over
the activities of the committee. And they're trying to also
pat him on the back they're putting him dulls more
and more into the White House. And the other close
coordination that Doulas had to access at this time period
was his brother John Foster. Dolas is Secretary of State
and he wants an activist CIA. So Dolus himself is
very very good at conducting these operations. But there's a vulnerability.
There's a setback, and this is from Lyman Kirkpatrick, who
he has a meteoric rise in the Central Intelligence Agency.
He would have been director, but he contracted polio on
assignment in Southeast Asia on nineteen fifty two, and this
precludes him from really being able to rise to a
position they Kirkpatrick writes that in early nineteen fifty four,
McCarthy is continuing to attack the Central Intelligence Agency because
supposedly there's a whole bunch of communists that are present.
This is something that comes up very frequently with McCarthy.
His tactic is to point to a government administration and
say that there's a secret cabal internally that is a
group of communists that's all working to advance the communist agenda. Now,
for the most part, that's completely accurate and true, but
it's not true for the Central Intelligence Agency, and Doulas
takes this very personally. He's extremely anti communist. The unbeknownst
to McCarthy, and according to Kirkpatrick, the CIA had been
completely and thoroughly investigated after World War Two for communist activity,
regardless of employment or the security clearances that anyone within
the CeNSE Intelligence Agency had held. So Dulls knew that
for the most part, everyone at the CIA was pretty
clean in terms of Communist activity at the time, according
to Kirkpatrick. But Dullus goes further. He sits down at
a meeting. I wouldn't call it a meeting, It's more
of a convention. He puts six hundred agency employees in
a room with him, and he says to all of
them directly that he will fire anybody who goes to
McCarthy without his personal authorization. Dullus also notes in a
different source that quote, since I have been with the CIA,
a mountain of hard evidence on communist intrigue has passed
over my desk. Soviet spies have been operating in the
United States for more than forty years, and the apparatus
all over the world went into high gear for the
Cold War. So that explains the emphasis on the anti
communist tendency within the Central Intelligence Agency, and they would
end up doing much more like pro lefty activities after
the Dulles brothers are outed. But there's another quote here
that is from a book called the Cultural Cold War,
which claims that the CIA influenced and infiltrated the cultural
sphere of the left wing progressives and bankrolled them. Everyone
from Isaiah Berlin to Jackson Pollock, to bertrand Russell Desartra,
they were all in the CIA payroll. And well, people
might associate that with Dolls. That's actually not quite true.
In the book, it says about men like Dulls that
these men like Dolls quote, schooled in the principles of
a robust intellect, athletic prowess, pily tess, noblige, and solid
Christian ethics. They took their example from men like the
Reverend Endicott Peabody, trained in the Christian virtues and the
duties of privileged. They emerged believing in democracy, but wary
of unchecked egalitarianism reversing. This was the elect that had
not been elected, so a lot of the other I'm
gonna I guess I'm straying a little bit, but basically,
these guys are extremely motivated internal to their own agency
to get rid of the communism that was present. And
how they actually conducted these operations, well, okay, they had
a legal network that was also present in the agency.
It was very limited in its scope and its manpower, right,
This is the uh More espionage side of the house.
Every important American embassy and consulate has its quota of
CIA men who are given a cover rank but whose
work escapes diplomatic discipline. The CIA legal operative reports directly
to Washington. His job, like his Soviet counterpart, is to
recruit illegal agents, build up contacts with non governmental forces
in the country, and collect information through sources not available
to the regular embassy staff. So this begins to create
kind of an elite class of people within the CIA.
So you have the analysts side of the house, which
is usually you have a country desk where you have
anywhere between half a dozen to a dozen experts on
any given country. They all have a specialty area for
that country. One person is very very knowledgeable about the
economics of a country. The other knows a great deal
about the religion. Another person knows about the recent history
and political situation of the country, and those people form
an analyst collective about the country, which then will create
intelligence reports based off of mostly open source intelligence information
and sometimes clandestinely gathered information like satellite activity. I should
also stress that this is prior for the most part.
I think Stormy can correct me. This is prior to
a lot of the psychic activities that were going on
at the agency. I know that they had mk Ultra,
and I listened to Astrol's episode on that, but I'm
not an expert in that area, so I'm not going
to over extend myself on that front.
Speaker 3: I started in the six in the in the late sixties, early.
Speaker 4: Seventies, Sure, okay, so.
Speaker 3: It also came out of it also came Another thing
is that while this is happening in the CIA, another
thing that you another group that you will butt into
when you butt into the CIA, which is a lot
harder to find anything on, frankly, is the naval intelligence.
And it's a naval intelligence kind of sits in the background. Right.
So as he's describing all this, keep in mind that
all of the branches of the military have kept and
grown their own intelligence off agencies internally, and they're the
only people with equally as unlimited and equally as unchecked
and equally as classified budgets. So sometimes these groups will
overlap remote viewing I believe came out of the Pentagon.
Speaker 4: First, and it would kind of track with the overall
trajectory of the intelligence community because this number three man
at the CIA, Limon Kirkpatrick, he founds the Defense Intelligence
Agency in the nineteen fifties. He's response, he's called the
father of the d IA by people within that community.
Speaker 3: And yeah, there's not much Defense department in the Defense
Intelligence Agency though.
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean it's it's mostly uh, I'd have to
like double check the information there, but it's it's a lot,
it's a lot of O and I right, yep, yeah,
I mean that because that makes sense because the office
prior to I'll have a book on the origins of
the OSS. It's the big internal CIA one had to
be gone through twice before they were able to publish
it by Troy Baker. I think that one can say,
like a.
Speaker 3: Good example is like the Defense that both the Office
of Naval Naval Intelligence had their own I guess Warren Commission,
all right, that was strictly internal for them, and you
still can't get the classified not even a single freaking
page of it, including the Trump administration, you can't get it.
Speaker 4: I know that they were the dominant intelligence force in
the country prior to World War Two. I mean they
that was it, there was. And also if you look,
you know, I think kind of the hidden story about
Kirkpatrick's recruitment is that. And it's very interesting. So there's
this unspoken subtext of a relationship between the Navy and
the recruitment apparatus within the OSS. Right, So the Secretary
of the Navy knocks, he knows, I mean, he is
informed the next day, you know, because he calls this candidate,
this Kirkpatrick guy. Because if os US wants him, he's
been rejected to be enable candidate. The only the only
way he can secure his loyalty is, you know, he says, hey,
do you want to commission tomorrow? I mean that's and
that sounds people might not appreciate just how major of
it like that doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: It doesn't the president calling you exactly literally, like the
President of the United States calling you saying, hey, do
you want a job tomorrow?
Speaker 4: Right, So there's there's there's there's many things going behind
the scenes, and who knows.
Speaker 3: The universities to man, if you notice, all the CIA
guys tend to come out of where CIA leadership, right,
So I guess you could say like the class structure
within the CIA, so to speak.
Speaker 4: At the time, they're all coming out of Yale and Princeton.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep. How come we never see like a West
Point or any of the other military academ me which
are far harder to get into than Yale. I would
imagine those.
Speaker 4: My guess is that they've already been intoctrinated with do
O D thinking the methodology of war gaming things, and
you know they've also been trained very hierarchically and with
an oh yeah, all these guys were protent.
Speaker 3: These are the most important thing.
Speaker 4: It's a great book called Wise Men by Walter Isaacson.
It details how all these guys, you know, all the
World War One guys. There's also a huge thing for
Navy intelligence. So Kirkpatrick's boss was a naval aviator, and
all of the people that founded early UH naval aviation
and Navy intelligence that were working in that field. These
guys had like all of the powerful connections that are
going on, and I mean it's it's still the case,
like it's uh, you know, you know, find me a
very interesting parallel today is if you look at all
the people that are in charge of the Department of Defense,
like the Joint Chiefs of Staff, they're all fighter pilots,
but also overrepresented as like the Navy's opinions. I mean,
then the Navy really runs the show when it comes
to the bureaucracy in DC nowadays. And also like basically
like throughout American history. Yes, you know that the Army
is out in the nineteenth century fighting the Indian Wars.
The Marine Corps is deployed you know, all over the
world to you know, the Google.
Speaker 3: But yeah, the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps under who
now at the time and still are technically then they.
Speaker 4: Earned the Navy, yeah exactly. And so all these naval
personnel are in d C, and all the admirals and
all the general staff. And if you look at Trump's changes,
you know, well.
Speaker 3: Here give you just a real quick example that everyone
at home can google right now. You can do it
too far, though, I'd love to actually hear your opinion
type in Pentagon militia, destroys kills whichever pick an adjective, Cia, militia.
Speaker 1: Okay, stand by here, Yeah, I remember this, I remember what.
Speaker 4: Uh Los Angeles time corticle. Yes, oh man, I could
tell you about this one.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the CIA was trying to at the best
of I guess you can call it at the best
of Zionism. This is the thing is that I didn't
want to interrupt you, but Allen Dulles was right about communists.
He just didn't really understand communists all that well. You
could hate communists and be very anti communists and not
understand communism. And let let's say the way three of
us understand communism, right, we understand communism a little bit differently,
and we understand that there's no difference between that and Zionism,
right guys. So he may have had a blind spot
because the reason why Alan Dulles couldn't figure out how
the Soviets kept on getting all of their shit was
it never occurred to him that it was Israel giving
all of the materials. The mole that that James Jus
Angleton was, you know, commissioned to find this Soviet mole
wasn't in fact, the Soviet mole at all, it's a
Zionist mole, and he was it. James Ingleton was the
guy that he was supposed to find. But who was
Zionism at this point? Find me a Israeli prime minister
Who's I have to coveat this because I could just
say every Israeli prime minister was a former member of
the Soviet intelligence apparatus. But then I have to caveat
that because Benjamin and Yahoo exists and he's just the
son of two Soviet intelligence officers.
Speaker 4: Well all of them are hugganah Iragoon. Yeah, every single
prime minister and they were also.
Speaker 3: What I mean, organized crime and intelligence go like handing
glove right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely with Angleton as well. There's some little interesting
anecdotes about Angleton.
Speaker 3: I try and tell people like the Masad existed before,
long before the state of Israel.
Speaker 4: Yeah absolutely, I mean reference you know, reference the previous,
uh previous streams on forrestall and.
Speaker 2: You know, just.
Speaker 4: The the prevalence there, Like Engleton. Engleton is deathbed said, uh,
you know, he said, I'm going to burn in hell
for all eternity for what I'm what I've done in
my life, and uh, there's some very there's some I
mean he had some realizations well, you know, and that's
interesting reading the David Talbot book on him, because you know,
the reason Doulas didn't suspect Angleton is because they were
very close. Uh, you know, there was a huge amount
of trust that Dulls put in Angleton. And I'd have
to pull up the source here.
Speaker 3: But it's it's the same thing that always gets them.
Why would a Princeton guy like, why would a man
of my class? Possibly? This is how this is how
everybody missed Kim philby a right, there's no there's no
there's no daylight between Champagne socialists and communists and all
these little posh boys. Their life kind of lacks a
certain type of excitement, and being a double agent's pretty exciting,
you know.
Speaker 2: They.
Speaker 3: I believe Dulles missed Angleton for the same reason that
everyone missed and I six missed Kim Philbery right, because
for him to throw in with the Communists would be
so unimaginable, because glaring in the face long before national
betrayal would be class betrayal. So I no one saw FDR.
All of the people that were aligned to try and
oust the recently elected FDR. A lot of them had
the last name Roosevelt. Nobody ever sees class betrayal coming.
Speaker 4: Yeah, not all of them betrayed either, Like Kermit, Roosevelt
was involved in the most standard oil the Iranian action one.
Speaker 3: Hundred percent, Like Dude, a majority of Roosevelt's entire family
was like part of the campaign to oust FDR. Like
the level of betrayal, they were the most, they were
the most vehement, like the most venomous anti Roosevelt people
were members of the Roosevelt family. Because of that betrayal,
it caught them so like they couldn't they couldn't imagine it.
I imagine that this is why why Dulles couldn't imagine
class betrayal. Let's put this way, like what you said,
it may sound really corny, but the quote that filoed
just that read out earlier about what these men were
actually like, what their values were like, right, what their
religious faiths were like, and the type of priority in
prominence these men put into matters of faith. It leaves
them open for this type of thing because it is
physically impossible for a man like Alan Dulles with the
values and beliefs that he has. It's his whole paradigm.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, these are my values and they're
like this line item list right, these are my bullet
points right here. These are all the things. That's not
how it works, right. All of these things are part
of his paradigm. Right. They physically represent the way that
like they physically are not represent They are the lens
in which he views reality. He lives through those, He
analyzes all information through those, he experiences life. Through those.
He understands the options that are available to him at
any given time through those, which is why the class
traders always get through always.
Speaker 4: There's a very interesting uh. There's two very interesting elements
to Angleton. The first was that when he was in
school at Yale, he founded a very modern levant garde
literary magazine and was very into modernist poet which later
became The Beats and Everything Else, and they got a
lot of CIA funding from that. So Angleton there's a
very interesting thing, which is that he was exceptionally interested
in the metaphysics of assassination, and people that worked with
Angleton said one did not always have to agree with
him to know that he possessed a unique grasp of
secret operations. As a friend remark, he had the ability
to raise an operational discussion not only to a higher level,
but to another dimension. It is easy to mock this,
but there's no one within the agency with whom I
would rather have discussed a complex operational problem than Angleton.
Angleton's activities ranged from opening the mail of US citizens
to wire tapping the bedrooms of CIA officials. It was
his job to be suspicious of everybody, and he was
keeping a treasure trove of sensitive files and photos in
the locked fault in his office. Every morning at CIA,
he would personally report to Dulles on the results of
his quote fishing expeditions, as they call this electronic eavesdropping missions,
which picked up everything from gossip on the Georgetown party
circuit to Washington Billodstock. As Dulas was well rare, Angleton
had even tucked away explicit secrets about the CIA director himself.
That is why Dullas had rewarded him with the most Well,
I disagree with this. That's not why Dallas rewarded him
with the most sensitive job. It's not like blackmail. It's
because he had like really full trust of Dulles. He
also like a lot of Angleton's coworkers, they were all
Ivy League graduates. Engleton was a huge fan of Britain
and had attended the upper crust British boarding school Malvern,
and he worked a lot with British secret intelligence And
what else was there?
Speaker 3: Also why he didn't see Kim Philby coming?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Philby is a little interesting. Let's see what
can I find about Philly m zoom in here?
Speaker 3: So for the listener, these people sound irrelevant, but these
people have far more to do with the with history
being created than really anybody in any elected or visible
position of power in either of these governments or any
of them. Frankly, Alan Dulles shaped world events, historical events,
far more than anyone in Congress, far more than any
individual army officer. General doesn't fucking matter, any president doesn't matter. Like,
these are the men that actually create history. This is
why it's important to know them.
Speaker 4: And it's it's even more interesting because generally most people
are aware of the fact that Eisenhower is not personally
going around approving all these foreign government interventions. I mean,
it's it's pretty standard knowledge nowadays that Dulls and the
agency were wholly responsible for all of this. But there's
this weird cognitive dissonance over the fact that something similar
could be happening today. That the people.
Speaker 3: How Eisenhower was the compromise between military intelligence and civilian intelligence,
because who was at the height of their power after
World War Two? The military they frankly run American society,
They run the American political apparatus, right.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: He was the compromise between the two factions.
Speaker 4: Exactly, And the CIA took a lot of ground from
the military element because of the Korean War, and you know,
a NiTi off the bat that the military intelligence component
of it really dropped the ball on it because the
Koreans had been building up their forces for months before
the invasion. But back to like Philby and Angleton, Yeah,
Philby and Engleton were both British schoolboys, you know they were.
They grew up together, and their families hang out and
uh would do dinner parties all the time. And one
thing that was Richard Helms was like a party to
both of these people, and he commented, Uh, I have
no doubt that the exposure of Kim Philby was lodged
in the deepest recesses of Jim's being if he were
the sort of Oh that's the separate part. Angleton told
a friend in British intelligence after the betrayal, quote, I
would kill Philby. The betrayal was painfully intimate. Let's see,
you know, there's a separate point. William Colby, who was
the guy who finally terminated Angleton's tenure in nineteen seventy five.
So Angleton's like active for a very long time. The
guy who terminated him said, quote, I couldn't find that
we ever caught a spy under Jim. So Angleton, you know,
was the mole hunter for decades within the CIA, and
he never caught a spy. Crazy crazy, He operated quote
a virtual CIA within the CIA, reporting and only to
Dulus himself. Let's see, big alcoholic Angleton was very much
into art and.
Speaker 2: What are their stuff? Was there he said?
Speaker 4: He said as part of his testimony before the Church
Committee in the nineteen seventies, quote it is inconceivable that
his secret intelligence arm of the government has to come
apply with all the overt orders of the government. CIA
overseers were a priestly cast that must be allowed to
operate unfettered and above the law. What other stuff was there?
I don't want to like tread on ground from the
previous stream, But he worked on pursuing a CIA partnership
with the mafia with Cold War countries France, West Germany, Turkey, Taiwan,
and Israel. He had a special bond with the Israelis.
Speaker 3: And that's probably where you want to go next. But
because next comes with the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's see, I'd have to, I'd have to
pull up I I listened to the astral stream. I
didn't do too much research into Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: Corey Hughes is an animal. He is probably the best
on this. Dawson is really really good. But I don't
think anyone who's able to put it together as linearly
as Corey has.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to go through it
because I didn't. I didn't quite understand the the references
in there to mk Ultra and Oswald, like I can
understand the idea, like it fits very well into the
picture that you know, Oswald is not only a Patsy,
but perhaps could be a series.
Speaker 3: Of different for something else. Right, he doesn't have to
be involved to be a Patsy bro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean I.
Speaker 3: Think Oswald belonged was being groomed for something else by
another intelligence agency, probably the Pentagon related.
Speaker 4: Well, the framing is that he would he would infiltrate
the Silvie Union. That was to be his assignment to
get closer within those communist circles. You know, they they
kind of made as I understand it from the stream,
they made up afterwards that he was a Communist and
like that's all bullshit, and almost everything about his life
and his biography is contrived.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's there's multiple ones, but it's basically some
of a project that got started very very very young.
So they're creating fake Oswald's when he was in still
finishing grade school for elementary school or sorry a high school,
I can't remember which.
Speaker 4: And then his mother worked for like the Navy Intelligence
or something.
Speaker 3: Yes, Naval intelligence. A lot of the people associated and
adjacent Like so if I want to if I am
in a rivalry, right, and I want to, like, because
the DD did not want Zionism, no, and how.
Speaker 4: Could you blame him? I mean, Zionism whacked the first.
Speaker 3: Sectath yep, exactly, So if you're going to again, Oswald's
purpose has nothing. Oswald has no knowledge. You can literally
watch in the video of when basically somebody asked him
about like literally when he's being carried away, you can
see it dawn on his face that he got set up. Right,
somebody knew who Oswald was and picked him as the patsy.
He doesn't have to know he's the patsy. So if
I'm going to burn somebody, why would I burn one
of my guys and I can burn one of yours.
Speaker 4: Yeah's I'm trying to just find a good section on it.
Speaker 3: Remember I'm hanging the and this way, if anybody looks
into him, they're gonna bump into your shit, not mine.
Speaker 4: Uh the So I'm looking through the Talbot book for
the GfK assassination stuff. Problem is is that there's just
so much material on it that it's hard to like
find good quotes.
Speaker 3: We don't have to go into the assassination, but we
should go into how Dullas exited the CIA, why who
exited him, and what was immediately done after he exited,
and what did Alan Dulles do once he figured out
what had happened?
Speaker 4: Uh? Sure, yeah, you'd I think You'll probably have to
take over the lead for it because most of the
rest of my research is on the coups in Congo
and Iran and in Guatemalas. So I kind of left
the Kennedy assassination stuff. So if you want to cover it, well.
Speaker 3: We've thoroughly uh So. In James Jesus Angleton's tenure right
of not catching spies, he did, however, have a interesting
relationship which apparently no one bothered to look into, with
a florist that he would stop in every day on
his way home and talk to for two to three hours.
The FBI knew this, but in some of the recent
documents that have been declassified and released will be James
Jesus Engleton going to the FBI saying, at the direct
request of the Director Dulles, anything that has to do
with Israeli intelligence or Israel whatsoever needs to come directly
to me and only to me. Nobody else in the CIA.
Bring all of the Israel shit to me. And this
is exactly what Alan Dulles wants, I promise. At the
same time as the FBI is noting that the CIA
fucking guy, he doesn't have many fucking flowers he doesn't
even have a garden. But day in day out he
stops by the florist on the way home and chats
for two hours, sometimes three, usually more than one. And
we never find out who owns that florist, not that
it would matter, not that it would be a real person,
not that it would lead anywhere, all right, so we'll
never know who was in that florist that he was
talking to, right, But what was what was James Jesus
Angleton's relationship with the State of Israel Philo.
Speaker 4: Well, as we as we covered in the first dream,
he was extremely connected with the Defense Secretary as well
as the the head of the shin Bet within israel
I mean, and he was that's where he was.
Speaker 3: The shin Bet.
Speaker 4: The shin Bet is israel'smestic intelligence service, and they.
Speaker 3: Are both foreign domestic intelligence. That's right, yes, okay, So
basically the guy is a fucking and an asset of
the Israeli intelligence agencies. Right, So I don't know what
it is that James Jesus Angleton thinks he's rotting in
hell for. But again keep in mind that James Jesus
Angleton does not need to know the intentions of the
Israeli state to be helpful to the Israeli state, just
like Oswald, who put it together literally as the journalist is, like,
when did you decide to kill Kennedy? And you just
see the fucking look on this guy's face, like, oh, motherfucker,
I'm being set up. I know what this is. He
was clueless. He had no idea what those reporters wanted.
He had no idea about anything, all right, James Jesus
Angleton didn't need to know that he was helping a
foreign government kill his president. All he needed to know
was that he's helping a foreign government. Probably thought he
was helping a foreign government for whatever reasons they told him.
But basically so, just because he is involved in the
Kennedy assassination does not mean he knew what was happening.
He did know what happened afterwards. But then are you
going to run and say anything, No, because you're basically
sworn to secrecy, whether you like it or not. Because
to not be sworn to secrecy is to effectively indict
yourself for treason, and you would be and especially right
after the president got killed, your ass would be shot.
You wouldn't have a trial you wouldn't have anything. You
would have an accident or a suicide or something like that. Right,
most cases of treason don't involve a trial or a
tribunal or anything like that. When it comes to intelligent stuff.
That person just dies. However mysteriously or unmysteriously it happens.
And that's what would have happened to Angleton if you
were to have said, like, oh shit, I think that
I shouldn't have. I was giving these people information thinking
it was for this, but turns out it's actually for this,
and I think I did a bad thing. That's never
gonna happen. He's going to have to live with that
every day till day dies, which it sounds like he did.
Unfortunately for us he didn't die sooner. But what did
what did Allan Dulles do? Because he was pushed out
of the CIA, all right, and like like Filo said,
the man was running an intelligence agency inside the Central
Intelligence Agency, mister mister Engleton, very busy guy, and according
to two of the sources that he referenced, he had
material on Alan Dullis himself the head of the CIA.
So between running an office inside an office and having
material on the current head of the Central Intelligence Agency.
If there's anybody that could have pushed Alan Dulles out
of the agency he created, because there's no way in
fucking hell that he would have decided to leave without
being pushed out. So who pushed him out? I don't know.
Maybe the guy with the secret folder full of shit
on him probably a good place to look. So what
did Allendells do after he got pushed out? During the
Everyone's like, oh well he Allendls was on the Warren Commission.
No shit, right, no shit, he was on the Warren Commission.
That doesn't make him complicit. You can be on the
Warren Commission because the nation knows that you're the intelligence guy.
So if someone's going to make something believable, right, or
actually because the Warren Commission, what's his name? Two members
of the Warren Commission came out and said that their
investigation was deliberately derailed and there's parts of the Warren
Commission that's still classified. Right, So these guys just because
somebody's on the Warren Commission. This is the thing about
people need to be way when you look at stuff
like this, anything intelligence related, anything like this, you have
to be way more fluid, right, Like you have to
basically take everything that you see and then you look
at it from every single angle. Is it possible to
be on the Warrant Commission and not be involved in
the Kennedy assassination? Yes?
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: What was Alan Dllis doing well? I believe in the
book what was that book that you mentioned, Devil's Chessboard?
I believe they document Alan Dallis, after being pushed out
and immediately after the Kennedy assassination, basically recreating a mini
CIA in his living room full of only people that
he trusted, imagining after just getting pushed out of the
Central Intelligence Agency. That was a very small list of people.
But what were they investigating in Alan Dullis's living room
each day, all day? Probably piecing together what the fuck
just happened? Because if you just got pushed out of
the CIA, and you know enough to know enough that
some CIA people were involved in this, or at least
adjacent to it, you would probably try and get to
the bottom of that, at least if no other reason
then to make up for being ignominiously thrown out of
the thing you created and shamed. But probably for other reasons.
I mean literally, I mean, John Foster was a part
time Protestant theologian and Ellen John Foster's son is a
very prominent Catholic was a very prominent Catholic bishop and
imminent theologian. Like these men took their religious stuff very seriously.
So if somebody just kills the president, you know you're
going to try and get to the bottom of it,
like you're not a fucking heathen, you know, it would
be it would be a call to action for a
man like Alan Dallas. So why didn't anything happen with that? Like,
why did Alan Dellas just just stop? Well at that
point in time, the uh, the man who was having
an affair with the Israeli Burgoon terrorists, right and member
of the Stern gang, right, I can't remember her name, right,
But that guy is now in the fucking White House.
He's the president. The Israeli asset now very very very guilty,
feeling very very very very nervous, probably very very very
very twitchy. James Jesus Angleton, the guy that pushed you
out is now running the CIA. So the president is
nearest makes no difference in on it, and the guy
that's run CIA now is nearest makes no difference in
on it, and you're just an old man without a job,
you know, playing CIA in your living room. It doesn't
matter what you find, because someone's going to come up
to you and have a conversation with you that says, hey,
like you need to just go be an old man now,
or you're going to die. And that's what he did,
and he died shortly after anyways, So I really think
it's uh. I really think the whole CIA killed or
was involved in any capacity officially as in like officially,
as in like the organs of the CIA was involved
in the Kennedy assassination needs to be put to bed.
Alan Dulles being an evil man and involved in some
way in the Kennedy assassination needs to be put to bed.
Right the reason, I don't know if we talked on
the first episode about the Kennedy and Dulles beef, Pilo.
Speaker 4: Kennedy and Dulles beef. Yeah, I mean Dullas hated Kennedy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Kennedy hated Dulles. But why I had nothing to
do with the Vietnam War. Right, Everything that we have
from Kennedy, both internal White House transcripts, right recorded phone
calls and official statements of Kennedy is that are now declassified.
He was ramping up Vietnam. Kennedy never wanted to pull
out a fucking Vietnam. That's a made up that's that's
that's made up. Because you would need a reason for
the beef, right, you need to point the finger somewhere else.
Speaker 4: We Dulla Kennedy.
Speaker 3: Kennedy, Uh huh. Let me tell you exactly what he
was naive about. The one thing that after the Cuban
missile crisis nuclear this is actually where why he Kennedy
was as committed besides the fact that besides the fact
that his father, Joe Kennedy had a run in with
the Focus Group in the UK prior to the outbreak
of World War two right and was roundly squashed and
thrown out of his ambassadorial position by FDR because Joe
Kennedy was screaming like, hey, why aren't the British doing peace?
Why are they taking his offer? Like we're going to
start another world war, We're going to do it all
over again, And the focus group was like, yeah, guy,
that's the fucking point. And turns out Joe Kennedy found
out that FDR was already in on it. They're about it.
So Joe Kennedy like in his last years, had a
tremendous amount of resentment towards particularly design his outfit in
the United Kingdom, right the focus group that basically, I mean,
he would actually send letters back and communications back saying
that they were trying to that he thinks that they
were trying to poison him, and at one time he
actually gets deathly ill and almost dies. Right he comes
home to America shortly after he legitimately thought they were
trying to kill him. Because Joe Kennedy was not on
team Let's go World War two. He was on team
let's not do World War two. So Jack Kennedy had
no real love for the Zionist cause to begin with,
but he's rather indifferent about it until the nukes stuff happened.
Like I mean, Jack and Robert Kennedy like literally took
their kids to mass on Sunday I at the height
of the Cuban missile crisis. I made sure every single
one of their kids got communion. And funny enough, Khrushchev's
son will tell you that his dad did the exact
same thing. Because both world leaders were thinking there's a fucking,
very very very high probability that we're going to go
like everything's we're all going to go to hell like now,
nuclear hell fire tomorrow. And after that pass, Jack became
very very serious in his nuclear anti proliferation. Like you know,
as I imagine, taking your kids to what you think
was going to be their final communion will probably be
a formative experience in a father's life. I don't know.
I think so, because Jack Kennedy was literally going to
the Soviet Union, his friend mister Khrushchev and saying, like,
we need to do total nuclear disarmament. Khrushchev, at this
point in time now getting significant pushback from the Soviet
defense establishment. Khrushchev was on board, but Khrushchef couldn't. Well
that's put this like the Soviet military apparatus at this
point in time is starting to have a lot more
power than mister Khrushchev, and Khrushchev was not able to
move the ball down the court. And I think you
can look in the conversation the the what do you
call it, the telex stuff? I can't remember. It's either
like the transcribed phone calls from the recorders in the
White House or the telex I can't remember which whatever.
They're going back and forth and Kennedy. Jack Kennedy's like, hey,
so how about we just start disarming first, and that
way you'll know that we're serious about it, and that
way you can go back to the military guys and say, look,
there's the Americans are serious about it. And Alan Dulles
and the Joint chiefs of Staff found out about this,
and they are not naive. They're like, are you out
of your fucking mind, Like you're you're talking about like
you're going to try and you know, you're going to
destroy some of our missiles in hopes that that the
Soviets do the same. Like I'm sorry. This is where
the beef came between the two. It had nothing to
do with the Bay of Pigs, the whole Bay of
Pigs conversation. As Corey Hughes documents extensively, the reason the
Bay of Pigs failed had nothing to do with the CIA,
nothing to do with John F. Kennedy, had everything to
do with those arms never fucking making it to Cuba
in the goddamn first place. Where did they go The
arms that were supposed to go to the people in
the Bay of that would be doing. The Bay of
Pigs never made it there because with the help of
James Jesus Angleton, they were going through an export import
business in Virginia which I cannot remember the name of it,
but again Corey hughes documents extensively and being shipped to Israel.
Those guns were going to Israel, and unfortunately none of
them ever made it to UH to Cuba. And that's
why the Bay of Pigs failed, because every fucking bullet
and every gun ended up in the Levant and not
on the shores of Cuba, which is where they were
really sorely needed. So it wasn't the Bay of Pigs either,
It was the nukes. Kennedy in his naive little lefty
brain because only wrong. If Kennedy didn't get his fucking
top blown off, every single one of us would have
hated him as much as we hate FDR. The only
reason that we have any nice things to say about
him is frankly because our op, you know, killed him,
and be we, at least me, I love America enough
to where nobody gets to fucking kill the president, no
matter how fucking left he is, sure as how not
some pissant state in them at least, But we would
have hated our JFK like he would have been, like,
we would have looked at him like a disaster. He
was a naive leftist, like he literally thought that, well,
I just I think we could just make nukes go away,
maybe we can uninvent them, and the Soviets are going
to do it with us. Totally, this is actually gonna happen.
And someone like Alan Dulles and someone like the guys
in the Joint Chiefs of Staff would have thought that
this man is absolutely insane. And that's exactly what they thought,
and they sabotaged him every fucking chance that they got,
and they did sabotage him several times, some of them
leading to rather embarrassing moments. And that's why Jack Kennedy says,
I'm going to break the CIA into a million pieces,
because shortly before then they just made him look like
a fucking retard in front of the Soviets while he's
trying to do this crazy idea of his that like
we're just gonna wave the magic wand and the Communists
are going to make all the nukes go away, and
we're going to make all of ours go away. So
the whole fucking that's that's the dullest JFK beef has
nothing to do with Vietnam, has nothing to do with
the Bay of Pigs. The Bay of Pigs has everything
to do with somebody else, and it had everything to
do with nukes, which is the same reason JFK was
losing his fucking mind at was. It's monoc and Began.
I always get I always get them confused. Is that
the one or is it Ben Gury and Ben Gury in.
Speaker 4: Right well Minock and Began was a member of the
Year Gun and prime minister in the late seventies, and.
Speaker 3: Who is the one in the sixties when who is
the one that the Kennedy letters or I think they're called,
like the is the Israel letters or the Kennedy letters
or whatever. The basically the telex fight that he was
having with the Israeli Prime Minister at the time about
the nuclear sites in Demono when he did, yeah, we
know what you did.
Speaker 4: If if you give me a year, I could tell
you a year. Yeah, like when the phone call happened. Sorry,
oh no, no, like this would be oh shoot, Pete,
do you know when the Kennedy assassination took place. I
can't believe I'm fucking blanking on this.
Speaker 1: I thought you literally it was it was, it was
in sixty three, but it wasn't. Ben Gurion prime minister.
Speaker 2: At the time.
Speaker 3: Yes, So anybody that can go search the what is
it the what's the office, what's the place, what's the
It's not the Library of Congress. Who's the people that
keep the presidential records?
Speaker 1: The Office of the Historian one of the Yeah, the
Office of the Historian. Yeah, holds letters. They have the
uh it's number three. I wait, letter from Prime Minister
Ben Gurion to President Kennedy June twenty fourth, nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have a whole bunch of them. This letter
war went back and forth and back and forth. And
anybody that reads those letters, if you think that these
two men, you know, I would say that as much
as I think JFK hated him more than Donald Trump
hates Benjamint and Yahoo, and that's quite a lot. I
don't think there was a relationship, a diplomatic relationship that
John F. Kennedy had with any other world leader that
was as hostile as it was with the Prime Minister
of Israel at the time because of nukes. And that's
also why I think, I don't know if Filo would
you say, like that's the prime reason why that he
got assassinated by them.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's interesting because the whole talk of
nukes and the president, you know Angleton being interviewed in
nineteen seventy five in the church community, he's he's bringing
up Israel, he's bringing up nuclear weapons. I mean even
you know, at that point thirteen years later, it was
still like the highlight of the congressional investigation into him.
So I think there's there's very good supporting evidence of that.
And also you have to track like the global trajectory
of the acquisition of nukes. It's been it's been a
hot minute since I've researched this, but you know, first
off it's the United States and then later the Soviet Union,
I mean leaked through I think a British COMMI by
a scientist was how it got to the It was
nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 3: I know the person was it the Rose Was it
the Rosenbergs?
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: They were the person that found or they were the
person that was running the cell that this person that
was working at Los Alamos operated out.
Speaker 2: Of something like that.
Speaker 4: But I do know that there's a lot of other
atomic stuff going through them. But then anyway, I think
it's it's Brittain in it's France, and then UH Israel
one one one in one. Interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: One interesting thing from the nineteen seventy five interview is
that Angleton says that right around the Suez Crisis, he's
having talks with UH. I can have to pull up
the damn source he's he's having talks on with like
scientists UH that are that are working on the development
of a nuclear material within Israel, because there's like a
dynamic of he's getting intelligence about the Soviet Union from
the Israelis, and then there's there's other nuclear related information
that passes through Israel's kind of an onto it. So
a lot of internal speeches within the Soviet Union in
the mid fifties are going through Israel. He's talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the Televigenis apparatus was literally you know, these
were these were former co workers, right. Granted, the Soviet
Union would later turn on Israel.
Speaker 4: Oh totally. And Israel also was playing both sides, like
in israel I learned this that like that was not
was not what mindset right.
Speaker 3: Just type in now today, Just type in Pentagon or
US military. Pick an explicitive word that's similar to angry
or whatever Israel, or type in just Israel cells US
military blank and then hit enter.
Speaker 4: And less none than that is Israel.
Speaker 3: Because China, this is the Chinese. This is how the
Chinese got ahold of the F twenty two.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: The only people we ever get like the F thirty
five is the fucking is the down syndrome you know, baby,
that came after the F twenty two. Any fighter pilot
that you know has the experience will tell you that
the F twenty two is the real deal. The F
thirty five is a nightmare and a joke.
Speaker 4: Did you know that the you'd like this one? The
F thirty five has an I variant with an Israel
where they they have their own aircraft where they fitted
out with all kinds of Israeli developed daviy ONYX and
then send them back to But do you know.
Speaker 3: Why they're not allowed to have the F twenty two anymore?
Speaker 4: Probably because they sold every part of it to China.
I would guess, yeah, to China.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so even popular Mechanics talks about it. Popular Mechanics
got invited to Beijing to witness this amazing fifth generation
fighter that the Chinese had built. And what amazed popular
Mechanics the most was this plane, this plane's avionics system.
It wasn't the fact that it looks identical to the
F twenty two, literally identical. It was that the avionics
equipment was still in English. We only gave I think
we only gave one or two, and I know we
took one back, so I don't know where the other
one went. And I don't know what Israel got in return,
but I imagine quite a fucking lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, there's a good rabbit hole is the
Israeli weapons industry and China and no one, no one
knows about this, but it's it's openly discussed over there
like that. That was touted as a as a big
a big fact. Was like the uh you know like that,
because that was a big deal at the time for
the three years that I was there was you know,
Israel receives this F thirty five and ostensibly DoD tasks
them to develop all the avionics within their own F
thirty five ivary and that they're going to keep but
then send some of their tech back to the United
States to help, you know, further develop this technology that's
going on within there.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's.
Speaker 3: A fucking pox on both our houses. Sorry, China pretty much.
Speaker 4: There's also like yeah, there's a lot of a lot
of work within China the Israel soon and.
Speaker 3: So think about this, think about p you would probably
know this. Do you remember what was it called? I
can't remember what the gate was. It happened shortly after
the or shortly before the Lewinsky scandal.
Speaker 1: It was the bombing of the as This would be
after the bombing of the aspirin factory in UH Africa.
Speaker 3: I can't I think I think no I was talking
about like the a K. The Chinese guns that were
being that they got caught importing into the United States,
like just like a big deal, Like there was like
some millet, there was some Chinese ship. It had to
do with that guy that the guy that was running
it uh at the time, the guy that was deeply
involved in it was the same guy that killed himself
by tying himself to a tree and then shooting himself
in the shock in the chest with a shotgun twice.
Speaker 2: I don't remember.
Speaker 3: It's like the it's like the most famous Clinton suicide here,
hold on, uh Clinton. Yeah, like there's just too much
shit in my brain. Ninety six campaign finance controversy. Yeah,
campaign China Gate. It's called I'm so fucking dumb. God
damn it. Oh man, that's hilarious.
Speaker 4: I have a quick quick side note on that earlier point.
I'm looking at the nineteen seventy five Church thing. Angleton says, quote,
you know, I'm talking about in terms of Israel talking
about the signal intelligence. Most of the information that we
gained from the surfaced air missiles which had a direct
bearing on you using B fifty twos in Vietnam, we
gained through Israel. We could read a whole lot of
the computerizing and so on of those SAMs, and therefore
we were prepared to give highly sophisticated equipment to Israel
to work against the Russian business in order to transfer
the knowledge to Vietnam. And so this goes back, you know,
sixty years of a kind of two way five way
street or whatever.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even say it's a five way street. That
sounds like somebody's gassing up a bunch of senators that
don't know any better.
Speaker 4: Maybe, Yeah, it's he's you know that the senators?
Speaker 3: Well, here, let me tell you why Israelis is so important?
You know, I'm sure I would love to hear what
the senator's question that prompted that was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me mind it for you. Are you saying,
in effect then that any questions he raised with you
about the transfer of visual material or deeper technology or
manpower for that matter, to the Israeli government was couched
in cir Who is who?
Speaker 3: Who is who?
Speaker 4: Senator?
Speaker 3: No, isn't like you said that any any intelligence or
any anything here. Read read that first sentence.
Speaker 4: Again, Senator Tower to mister Engleton, are you saying an
effect then that any questions he raised with you about
the transfer of visual material?
Speaker 3: Who is the he?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 4: That is mister Schwartz.
Speaker 3: I bet it's dolls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a there's an inve Jewel named mister Schwartz.
This is talking about Israeli government technical assistance.
Speaker 2: Schwartz.
Speaker 4: Schwartz's Irish, Irish Irish.
Speaker 3: I wonder if he's a flower shop.
Speaker 4: You patron, Yeah, did you confirm to sol a different
guy during the late fifties subsequent to the sUAS War,
that the CIA made available to the Israeli government technical
assistance in the availability of one or more distinguished nuclear
scientists or physicists for the purpose of developing atomic weapons.
Mister Angleton, that is completely false. But we know it's true.
Speaker 3: Oh so it wasn't It wasn't. I guess they couldn't
even after they stole the uranium and stole the By
the way, Benjamin net and Yahoo everybody makes his first
appearance his first time to the US was not, unfortunately,
to testify as a Iranian nuclear weapons expert like he
does in his role as Prime Minister every ten minutes,
and not his appearance on the fouls on the Florid
Congress as a terrorism expert, as he did shortly after
nine to eleven, and also a terrorism expert before he
was even prime minister. He was the terrorism expert after
WTC the first time ninety three. But his first, his
first escapades in America had nothing to do with lying
to our congress people, which is his seemingly his career now.
It was stealing critron triggers, which are the triggers for
nuclear weapons in the naval facilities in California at the
same time his co ethno religiousists I would say co ethnics,
but depending on who you ask or when you ask,
it's a religion and so cover on my basis, while
they were stealing nuclear material out of the naval facility
in New Mech, Pennsylvania. So between the two you got
both half of both halves of a nuclear bomb. And
it was actually the mob the guys like Meyer Lanski
that made sure that nuclear material made it out of
the United States. I mean, when you find out how
they were shipping it, I'm sure a whole bunch of random,
nice people got radiation poisoning mysteriously. It was really fucking gross.
Don't expect the mobsters to take a lot of precautions.
But anyways, do you have a challenge. What you're telling
me is that even with those two things, they still
couldn't get it to work. And James Jesus Angleton had
to make sure that they got nuclear experts too. So
this is after JFK. This is after So why would
the Israeli new gular program and James Jesus Angleton and
the Suez crisis be relevant at all? To the Warrant
Commission unless nuclear weapons, the Israeli nuclear weapons program was
not very, very, very important to the Kennedy assassination. And
I think you will get the impression when you read
those those letters back and forth between Ben Gurion and JFK,
you come away with an idea that they already the
Israelis already planned are they already knew who they were
planning on using these weapons against, And I think that
was the Egyptians. They were going to nuclear first strike them.
Instead they did a surprise attack, like hey, we're not
at war, Oh surprise, you're war with us today with
fighter jets. That's the only reason that Israel didn't get
wiped off the face of the earth by the Egyptian army,
which it actually still very well made, by the way,
was because the Israelis, without declaring war or really any
hostilities or any real intent whatsoever, decided to just send
literally every fighter aircraft they had and surprise the Egyptians
and shoot all of their planes while they were still,
you know, not at war, hanging out on the ground.
I don't think that was the because they didn't know
that the Egyptian air defenses weren't going to be activated
the way they were. Right, the Israelis had to assume
that they would have lost a tremendous amount more fighter aircraft,
and the Israelis had to assume that they wouldn't have
been as successful as they were at nailing those fighter
craft on the ground. Right. I bet you Israel was
more surprised than anyone that they got that many Egyptian
fighter craft, uh, you know, caught them sleeping on the ground. Well, granted,
it's not really the Egyptian's fault if you don't know
that you're at war in your next if you think
of Canada anyways, right, because I meaning on nuclear first striking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the wait wait wait.
Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait? Who
was I mean? Actually, Pete, I believe you have at
least two episodes on this. Who was Egypt's ally?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's easy, the big guy Union y.
Speaker 3: It was the Soviet Union's largest ally in the region,
and I believe they shouldn't be too hard to find.
I believe at least one instance that the premiere of
the Soviet Socialist Republics, mister Khrushchev or either khrushcheff ort.
Actually Krushchev was ousted shortly after JFK, but so it
maybe either Khrushchev or the guy that followed him that
any attack on Egypt would be viewed by the Soviet
Union as an attack on the Soviet Union. The Soviet
Union wasn't retarded. They knew how important Suez was. So basically,
what Israel was trying to do was start World War
three with nukes, and they were perfectly okay with that
if it meant greater Israel. The only reason I go
off on that tangent, dear listener, is because it is
a very useful lens to apply to the Middle East today.
So if Israel was perfectly okay, granted they thought the
US was going to get involved. They thought if the
US got involved, that the Soviet nukes would fly at
the US and not at their little tiny state in
the Middle East. We would be the bullet magnets. But
with nukes, they were perfectly okay starting nuclear war to
get greater Israel. Because this point in time, the Soviet
Union was very very very clear that anybody that attacked
Egypt would be at war with the Soviet Union. So
basically JFK was literally looking at Cuban missile crisis two
point zero. Nobody just we just didn't know it yet.
So if Israel's willing to literally light the world on
fire using nuclear health fire to you know, satiate their
territorial expansion desires, everybody needs to be well aware that
they would be they would be more than willing to
do it again. So there really is no geopolitical fallout
that these people are not willing to risk, whether it's
to them or whether it's to us, or to really
to anybody. Right, there's no nukes in the Middle East
now except for theirs, But when the Soviets would have
fired nukes at them, they were still willing to do it.
So really there's really nothing they're not willing to do now,
considering they're the one with all the nukes in the
region except for Turkey. So I think that's actually apparently
we're right back where we fucking started.
Speaker 4: In addition to spending the last you know, thirty maybe
longer years trying to destroy yourn YEP and that's still
like even like last week, the the D and I
put out the twenty twenty five Threat Landscape and that
you know number one threat outside of you know, China
Rush or whatever is you're on. You know it gets
it's just the same thing every single year.
Speaker 3: It's that's right. Don't pay too much attention to don't
pay attention to to dn I that much. You're basically
hearing the CIA and the CIA is nearest, makes no difference,
fully fully zogged right. Pay attention to what comes out
of the Defence Department, Defense Department prior to October seventh,
and there is ample policy documents from many many, many
army and navy and stuff war colleges to start pulling
troops out of the Middle East. And what do you know,
You can judge how serious they were about it by
the level of covetching against it. So if the Pentagon
wasn't serious, everybody should go to their search engine, do
go to settings and go to select time and scroll
the clock back before October seventh and type in Pentagon
pulling out of the Middle East, or Pentagon plants to
pull out the Middle East, whatever, and you will have
to go through three or four pages of Foreign Policy Magazine,
the Atlantic Council on Foreign Relations chatam this fucking place,
this other fucking place, doesn't matter. Just every single one
all the way on the line about how it will
be an absolute disaster if the Pentagon pulls out of
the Middle East. Well, let's just say the Pentagon never
said that. Hypothetically, Let's just do the counterfactual and say, like,
the Pentagon wasn't planning on doing that, then why the
fuck are you guys screaming about it so loudly? Why
are you screaming about how this thing will be a
disaster that no one's talking about doing and no one's
serious about doing. Oh, that's because they are serious about
doing it, and we're all right. Pentagon has done three
separate war games, two of which were with the IDF
about joint attacks and not just fighters and not just
you know, missiles. But actually, I think one of them
is called the war game is called like Archangel or
something basically something to do with the Archangel, Michael, I
can't remember which, right, And the US and Israel lose,
and they lose within three weeks, and the Pentagon doesn't
like to lose. Same reason why. And this is why
it's important to think about the two intelligence apparatuses, one
military and the other one's civilian. Right because like Filo said,
the head of the CIA is the third most powerful
person in government. The military number two is well, the
military isn't in government. The military is its own thing.
The military doesn't have elections. So people aren't appointed unless
you think the people that the present is a points
the changes every four years, unless you think those people
actually run shit. And I'd be like telling me Joe
Biden ran shit, he didn't, or who is it that
black guy, the guy that the guy that, Yeah, the
guy had disappeared for literally eight months, and not only
did his secretary not know or his deputy not know,
but his deputy didn't care, and really nobody else cared.
So if the person that the that the president appoints
to oversee the Pentagon can fuck off and literally disappear
in like a private cancer clinic for eight months and
nobody gives a shit or notices, how much do you
think that that position actually controls shit at the Pentagon?
Not very much so. The war in Ukraine is a
perfect example of this. It is clear anybody that was
paying attention, it looked like there was the Russians versus
the Ukrainians, and there was our government versus itself, right,
one half of the government was like, We're going to
go to a war in Ukraine against Russia tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: In fact, actually President Biden said in Poland, hey, you
boys talking to American troops this time next year, And
it was actually close to the end of the year,
or he said, he just said next year, right, this
will be like two or three months at the end
of the year. Next year, you guys are going to
be fighting in Ukraine, all right. State departments like, yeah,
very next day, somebody from the Joint chiefs of Staff.
I mean, how many public media press conferences have you
heard from the Joint chiefs of staff before? Personally, that
was the first one I've ever fucking heard of. But
Joint chiefs of Staff want staff press conference, and Joint
chief of Staff says, everything that guy just said is bullshit.
It's a very strange thing to say about the commander
in chief. And the very next day after that, the
president's fucking melanated mouthpiece comes out and says, yeah, everything
the the president said the other day, sorry about that
guy is bullshit. I've never seen that ever before in
my life. So yeah, Da sorry is zogged. CIA, Sorry
is zogged. But the thing to keep in mind is
that everybody in the Biden administration, all of the appoint
like the cabinet positions, the people that actually ran the government,
seventy percent of them hold dual citizenship with the nation
in the Middle East, and really really really really like
their ethnic homeland of Ukraine, and they really really wanted
to go to war in Ukraine. So if the president
is a vegetable, and the cabinet actually runs the government
and the intelligence agency wants to go to war in Ukraine,
and all of the people that run the Biden government, right,
all of the important cabinet officials, from the fucking head
of the secretary or the treasury secretary, it says, oh, yeah,
I know we have this hyperinflation problem, boys and girls,
but we still have money to go to war in Ukraine.
Anthony Blincoln, all the way down the line. So if
all of zog says that we're going to go to
war in Ukraine, but yet somehow we're not at war
in Ukraine, how is no one talking about that. All
of the people that hold all the positions of power. Apparently,
if these are the positions of power, they want to
go to war in Ukraine. But we're not in or
in Ukraine, and all those same fucking people want to
go to war against Iran, and we're not at war
with Iran. So there is obviously right like, how do
you know what black hole is? Somewhere? You can't actually
see the black hole. You can only figure out the
black holes there by watching the effect of its gravity
on the things around it. There's something else there, and
it's not the CIA, because CIA they really want war
in Ukraine. So I think, I think, I mean, it's
a weird way to end it out. But unfortunately that
other place, I think the Office of Naval Intelligence viewed
my guess, considering they pre date the CIA by I
don't know, eighty years, that'd probably be where i'd look,
And I think that's where you see the kind of
war within our government that doesn't seem to have eased
up any That was a ridiculous tangent.
Speaker 1: Sorry, guys, I mean I had let's do this, filos,
how do you want to wrap this up? I'll give
you the floor, Stormy. You can insurject any way you want.
Speaker 4: I figure, I figure there's two ways. The first is
I mean, I'd love to get kind of the current
Stormy's current opinion on the Trump administration, and you know,
foreign policy generally, alternatively, we didn't touch Guatemala and United
Free Company, but that might be too big of a
subject to wrap things. I would just it would just be.
Speaker 1: That that should actually be separate, because that's not only
the CIA.
Speaker 4: Right, that's Brene's and all the other stuff. That would
be my prefer would be, you know, I can understand
the Biden administration their stance on foreign intervention, the five
hundred ish dual citizens or ethnic representations, but you know
they're on the one hand, seven languages, but go on
seven hundred. On the one hand, the language from the
administration is changing on Ukraine, but on the other the Iran,
the pro Israel element of it. I mean, does that
does that shape towards like a renewed effort on that
intervention or is that just the same policy line that
the right's been trotting out for thirty years? You know
what will that eventually?
Speaker 3: The way I see it is that in Ukraine, what Trump,
Donald Trump wants first right now is Ukraine? Right? You
want Ukraine to end? What leverage does Donald Trump have
over Vladimir Putin in Ukraine? The answer is none. Literally,
Putin holds all the fucking cards. We can't escalate, we
can't ratch it, we literally can't do fuck all to
influence him into basically at least making it look like
we could both chalk up a win. You know, when
you want to, like if you want things tonight not escalate, Like, hey,
what do you need to so you can go home
to your people and say that this was a win
and this is what we need to go home to
our people to not get fucking just excoriated. He has
no leverage over Putin at all, but he really needs
this to stop because if he doesn't, I mean, I
know I've talked to this with, talked about this with Pete,
and I know Fi the way I've talked to this with,
talked about this with you privately. The European nations like
will go do the stupid thing, because it's either they
go do the stupid thing or they have a lot
of explaining to do at home when their government defaults
on all that stat and goes bankrupt or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the UK and France issue in all kinds of
statements about they're gonna launch a millionary and everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, crazy, bro, Germany just sent troops for the very
first time outside of German border since since Operation Barbarossa.
Speaker 4: And what happens when they get killed, you know, or.
Speaker 3: They put them they put them on the Russian border.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: The new guy, the new chancellor to replace Schultz, is
even more fucking insane, Like actually an insane person. I
would say that the Europeans have gotten even more insane
with escalation.
Speaker 1: Dude, I don't know what. I don't know what fucking
I don't know what demon is causing this. But that's
all I've been talking about lately with you know, in
my private in my private chats with people, is there's
a demon that has control over millions of people right
now in Europe and they're they're bringing it down upon themselves.
And yeah, it's like some of the stuff that we've
talked about privately. It's uh, it's going to be hell.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's obvious. But there is no strategic reason
to send any Western European military into Ukraine. There is
just not any kind of rational or political or even
economic reason I would argue to justify it if.
Speaker 3: You're worried about staying in power, because how does it
how does it collapse happen? How does it real? Quick?
I don't want to dodge your question. On Iran, they
have I ran in Russia have a mutual defense pack,
do they not?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: They do, and they also have a lot of natural
gas ties, if I recall correctly.
Speaker 3: Yes, So by leaning on Iran, mister Trump has found
a lever in which he can exert some put back
against mister Vladimir Putin. He can't escalate in Ukraine, he
can't posture in Ukraine, but he damn sure can do
it in Iran. And the Russians know that a large
portion of the Congress, right the State of Israel and
all of their far reaching tentacles, very very very much
want Donald Trump to go to war with Iran. So
if Donald Trump threatens to go to war with Iran,
that is a very credible threat. So now the man
that has no leverage all of a sudden found some.
So I don't know if that's actually what he's doing,
but all the John Meersheimer's, all the fucking David Sachs,
all these other fucking assholes will tell you all day
about how Donald Trump has absolutely no leverage against Russia
and that how they just need to do exactly as
Russia says and just fuck off and don't be wrong.
I think we should fuck off and we shouldn't have
been there in the first place. But to pretend to
be like some geopolitical analysts, you know, going on the
Duran and do whatever fucking song and dance you do,
David Sacks, You're supposed to be a smart man. And
if some half retarded and on can figure out what
a mutual defense pact means, right since you fucking assholes
have been screaming about mutual defense packs in NATO and
Article five for forever, like this shouldn't be rocket science.
So I don't know if that's what Donald Trump's doing,
but if the man would be searching for levers to
exert on Vladimir Putin in some way, shape or form.
None of those levers exist in Ukraine, but they do, however,
exist in Iran.
Speaker 4: I also want to add to that.
Speaker 3: Something bad has happened in Europe and I don't like it.
And capital markets wise, Martin Armstrong's never wrong, I'll put
it that way. I want to add a predicting that
for years down to the.
Speaker 4: Day, there's no more economic levers. I think that Trump
can pull as regards like sanctions on Russia like every
I mean, like I mean, for all the talk of
like soft power, it does, it does reach a limit
because soft power is basically sanctions, and sanctions are basically done.
There's there's not there's no one else to sanction. There's
no more institutions or organizations or energy resources that like
it's and.
Speaker 3: We couldn't move enough troops to fucking Europe to scare
Russia fast enough. The list we put a second enough
forces and being though in the Middle East.
Speaker 4: Which explains the second aircraft carry in the Middle least
they put in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: Everyone saying, oh my god, Trump sent three aircraft carriers
to that means war. They ran like nigga, do you
not remember there were fucking three aircraft carriers shooting at
the Hoofis like two months before Donald Trump got elected.
They leave because they ran out of AMMO, and they
come back, and this is now some indicator like do
we just forget the three aircraft carriers were already there
shooting at the Houthis and then they leave and now
they come back and this this is the signal that
he meets like, I mean, come on, it's like the
pants wedding is ridiculous. Like those fucking aircraft carriers already there,
they just fucking ran out of bullets.
Speaker 4: And the air operations have been ongoing against the Houthies
for years as well, without resolution.
Speaker 3: Pete, how many times have you heard of Scott Horton
freaking out about what the US is doing in Yemen
on behalf of the Saudist Uh?
Speaker 1: I mean at least since twenty fifteen, like every week?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And who do we really need onside right now? This
pretend Israel doesn't exist? Russia's God do we need on side?
We need Russia's got twenty percent of global oil supply,
andy supply. Who do we need on side right now?
Speaker 2: Is? Yeah? I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is what's happening, But well
there's a very close We've been doing this shit already
for forever.
Speaker 4: And during Trump's first administration there was a very close
tie between the Saudis and the Trump's I mean, it's
just it's, you know, all kinds of stuff. There was
a lot of then. The key things to watch in
that relationship were not just like these diplomatic measures like
the US was making appearances in all these different economic
forums that we're being held in Saudi Arabia, and I
it's been a long time because this was, you know,
Trump's first term. But you know, if I recall that
kind of relationship, and didn't you mention at one point
Stormy that like that's where most of Trump's money comes
from is the Saudis.
Speaker 3: Uh, Saudi's, Russians and the US people. It's so Trump now,
it's it's it's a combination. But to Pete's point, back
in the day, it was the Saudi like basically who
helped Donald Trump the entrepreneur. It was the Saudis and
the Russians. Oh shit, fuck Pete, remember when I told
you that the the Egyptians moved all those tanks to
the Israeli border. Yes, I wonder if Russia or to have,
like I wonder if Russia has a lot of ties
inside the Egyptian military.
Speaker 1: Still, well, you got that from Martin Armstrong, right, Martin Armstrong.
I think I was listening to the same show when
he was talking about that.
Speaker 3: Uh, the egypt thing. The only person I've I've heard
about the tanks is McGregor. Okay, but then I went
and checked it out in Israeli papers, and guess what
fucking tanks they are. They're like two, they're like something
like I think it was like either fifteen hundred or
two thousand and fifty thousand supporting troops got moved to
the Israeli border. But they're m one Abrams tanks. Egypt's
got unbeknownst to me, I didn't fucking know, but they've
got like several, like, you know, more than a thousand,
less than like eight thousand M one Abrams tanks. Apparently
Egypt's been getting a lot of aid, and some of
it it likes to receive in tanks, and the other
likes to receive in dollars to give Russia for green
So as CC has been starving his people, he's damned
sure been stocking up on tanks. Anyways, I know we
were supposed to wrap this up, but I think we
just I think I just took us further downfield. I
would be interested, though, in hearing you and Filo tie
the Breneese thing together into United fruit, because that is
a rabbit hole I have not gone down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can, you know, I can do that one
on our own.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to join, but I'm gonna give.
Speaker 4: You a rundown if you have time.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, we're still probably gonna want to
do it. I mean two minutes is nothing.
Speaker 3: No, especially if it Edward fucking Brene is involved.
Speaker 4: Yep, that's truth.
Speaker 3: I'd say this is probably more dangerous now than it
ever was at the height of Russia Ukraine under Biden.
I'd probably say this is we're This is probably the
most dangerous it's been.
Speaker 4: And we haven't even touched like the the tariff and
negotiations and the all that other stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think the Russia China thing is actually
as strong as everyone thinks of this.
Speaker 4: They've always been like allies of a geographic convenience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, how's the China How's the China thing going
to happen?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: China, you know, basically says that anything that goes into
Taiwan has to come through China first. US says that's unacceptable.
Who knows what the hell happens from there?
Speaker 3: That's a very I mean, yeah, so this is actually
why I think you see the Trump administration not only
not buckling when the stock market was freaking out, but
barely saying words like Scott bessn't uh it's Scott or
Stephen Beston. I always confused it to Scott Scott Scott,
So Scott bessont ran out on Tucker first. Kind of
like to be because if you think, like that Tucker
episode that you sent me with him, all right, you
sent me that on the day that the market started tanking,
all right. But there's no way that they recorded that
on the day that the market started tanking and got
it out in like three hours, because the market was
tanking right from the fucking open. So unless you know
they were recording it at four in the morning and
edited it or whatever, like, no, that was recorded the
day before, right. But ever since then, there's been very
little communication out of the Trump administration about any of
the shit that's happened. And in the interim, has anybody
been watched I've seen a ton of news articles about,
oh my god, China is tank is dumping US treasuries
sixty billion in treasuries. First off, China does that shit
every quarter. It's not a big deal. It's roughly the
same number that it's always been doing it every quarter.
And the bigger news is that Europe is actually the
one gobbling them up, in fact, like gobbling up trying
to gobble up eighty billion when there's only sixty billion
being sold, right, So like that's that's not the big news.
The big news is the fucking renmen b Jesus Christ.
Like I haven't seen it like really reported anywhere, but
like unless you're watching it on the tick, like unless
you're watching like the Bloomberg feed or like the chart,
China's currency's fallen off a fucking cliff, like really really
really really crazy. So I wonder if.
Speaker 2: Are you talking about the are you talking about the one?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think it started coming back today.
Speaker 3: Oh did it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it started coming back today.
Speaker 4: I'm seeing that there was a huge drop on the thirteenth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're watching that. You're watching this the fucking Chinese currency.
They have two currencies. The one is the external one
that they used to trade with other countries, and I
think the rendmen B is the internal one. And my
friend like, RUNMANB, there we go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ohno, the wand right now the Wand since the
sense of clothes of our markets dropping is dropping.
Speaker 3: Hard, Yeah, I think I think you might be right.
Pete but I think maybe we may be firing the
first shots.
Speaker 4: Forgive my ignorance of a trade war between the US
and China, Like, no.
Speaker 2: Let's.
Speaker 3: I think it's a currency war, man, We're trying to
destabilize them. You don't fuck with the internal currency unless
you're trying to destabilize the nation itself. Mm hmm, right,
because what he has been acting fucking insane. But think
about it, he's fired all the military brass and replace
them like in the last three or four months it
barely got reported on, but he has been acting generals
and replacing them like crazy. Oh yeah, shit, yeah, the
redmen be the dollar gained on the redmen? B What
is this?
Speaker 2: What is that? That's the internal the internal currency?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I can't remember where, Yeah,
the CNY, I can't remember which one it is. But
is this right? Is that really? Does that really? Say? Yeah, okay,
so it's a couple points, and they keep in mind
everyone a couple percentage points doesn't sound like a big
deal in currency. But the reason that four X traders
are always blowing up is because four X moves so
little that they have to trade with one hundred and
a thousand times leverage to make any money at all.
So these guys are trading, you know, fractions of a
fraction of a percent, which generally would be app will
be worthless unless you leverage yourself one thousand acts. So
like a currency moving three, four or five percent would
be like a stock moving like fifty eighty percent in
a day. It would be huge. Yeah, because times they
collapse really fast.
Speaker 1: If you look at the five day chart on the lawn,
the offshore lawn has recovered, but the uh, the internal
is not doing well at all, and they're both at
fourteen cents to the US dollar.
Speaker 4: The offshore room and be recorded an all time low
on Wednesday, slightly strengthened. The onshore is its weakest level
in almost eighteen years. That just happened in the last hour.
Speaker 1: Now here's the Here's where you have to be careful.
You have to know what you're doing in this because
these people are fucking crazy. And I'm one of these
people who believes that they can turn our fucking lights out.
Speaker 3: Yeap China. Yes, yeah, yeah, I heard everybody to look
at the North Korean satellite that has a very I
think is their only satellite. It doesn't take any pictures,
doesn't do anything all right, but has a very peculiar
orbit that would be pretty much useless as a satellite
unless that satellite was anything other than electromagnetic pulse device.
It also happens to be at the perfect altitude that
one would And unless anybody believes that North Korea whip
that ump themselves, you can believe that North Korea whip
that up themselves, and that's not actually Chinese. But if
you do believe that, you also have to believe that
China would have at least if North Korea has one,
China's got more than one. And remember that Chinese satellite
that went and was like eating other satellites back in
the day. This was like last year, two years ago.
It literally like was going. It was the satellit. It's
actually really crazy. Everybody wants to look into it. It
was big news. China had a satellite that was zipping
around and basically crunching other satellites.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe you know, we want to talk not
talk about it that this is rhetorical. You know, maybe
someone wants to talk about the fact that there are
two hundred and fifty thousand Chinese nationals in our universities
at this very moment.
Speaker 4: Every time, every couple of weeks they get busted in
the military for leaking information.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think we need to be racist
as a matter of national security, because it seems that
all the leaks and all the people that get caught
doing espionage all have a name like Shing Chang Chong, Like,
holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Wait, how
do we how do we find the Chinese moles get
the roster?
Speaker 1: You know, the you know, the whole league thing was
the biggest fucking distraction. It was the distraction against all
of this. It was it was to distract us. Oh,
we have to worry about these these like literal terrorists
who were caught into in the summer of two thousand
and one training with the CIA in Afghanistan and you know,
get to be sent back to China to this disrupt them.
And yeah, sure that's something to think about. But no,
it's when you when you start fucking with a country
that has a billion people. And then I heard somebody
the other day arguing they don't have a billion people.
That's a lie. I don't care when you start talking
with their Yeah, do you when you start fucking with
their currency to people that have no god other than Machiavelianism.
Watch the funk out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how many Americans do we have embedded in Chinese
institutions within China?
Speaker 3: I bet you'll be really easy to find and.
Speaker 4: Can freely conduct business and communication.
Speaker 3: They're both named Tim Walltz.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's absolutely insane that this open, this
open society. This Oh, and America is an idea. Anybody
can come here and be an American. Oh oh, how
important it is to have to bring to bring foreigners
here to educate them in our universities so they can
see how nice we are, and how you know, they
can fall in love with the.
Speaker 3: American and put them in our military.
Speaker 1: How about wet, how about we how about we just
by default don't trust anyone?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how'd that work out with.
Speaker 1: And we'll start off with about one hundred and fifty
to two hundred million Americans right now?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 3: And you want I can't remember whose article it was,
it was either shit. I want to make sure I
give credit where credit is due. But actually I'm not
even going to say who wrote it. I'm just going
to refer people back to your episode about the recruitment crisis.
I can't remember who wrote that article that you had on,
but it was that article to a lot of people that,
let's put it this way, would be in positions of,
you know, in the type of people that would be
able to have influence on that policy inside the DoD
or at least how long bring out the people's attention?
It was insanely well written.
Speaker 2: How long ago is that episode?
Speaker 3: Over a year ago?
Speaker 1: This would it was lee Enfield, Yeah, and it was
an army war. It was an army war college paper.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, about the draft or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, about how we have about how if we
would have went up against Russia and Ukraine the way
Ukraine went up against Russia, we would have been out
of soldiers in twenty nine days.
Speaker 3: Yep. That's the one. That's the one. But particularly in
that article or in the conversation the two of you had,
he dropped a fact about the ethnic makeup of men
that enlist under combat arms and then being like ninety
three percent a certain type.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So if you were to reduce the population to one
hundred and fifty two hundred million, like you just said,
the amount of fighting men that we would lose would
be zero.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 4: It's why Eric Prince is going on about the uh
the tip to tail, the sorry, the teeth to tail ratio,
and that's certain that's why he's talking with Trump.
Speaker 3: It's the tail ratio where all of the all of
the uh, the DMV workers exist.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be really interesting, man. I don't like,
I know, I've been kind of hyperbolic in the past
about like what's coming down the pike, but I really
think right now and like I know, there's literally like
I got a lot of commentators in our sphere basically
saying like, oh, it's like a slow news day. We
don't know fuck all to talk about. I've been kind
of absent on Twitter and in the discourse for like
two or three weeks. But this is probably the most
not depressed I would say, but like spiritually apprehensive period
I've had that I can remember in like the last
five years, like to where like the amount of times
that I pray is an order of magnitude higher than
it was pretty much anytime in the last five or
six years. It just it feels like something bad is
gonna happen. Man, it really does and was at least
the most dangerous.
Speaker 1: If what if it is what you and I were
texting about, then.
Speaker 3: That help us, Yes, God help us. Ang. And you
know what's really crazy is that every other person at
the decision making table outside of Donald Trump is basically
fighting for the worst case scenario to happen. Europe, they're
fighting for the worst case scenario to happen, and at
least Israel fighting for the worst case scenario to happen.
Half of our fucking government fighting for the worst case
scenario to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I question, I really question the people who
are in charge right now. I didn't talk about that
signal leak when it came out because it was turned
into slops so quickly.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 1: Talk about the oh we're tracking this guy. Oh he's
going to visit his girlfriend in this building. All right,
we'll just drop a bomba in this building. Hey, way
to go.
Speaker 4: Where's the crisis of conscience? I mean to tie it
back to the dullest thing. If you read these guys,
everyone in a position of me major authority within the agency,
these men had deep metaphysical convictions and a lot of
weight to their you know, their ethical decision making processes.
I mean, looking at this administration, every everyone fixates on
the wrong angle. They focus on the like op sec
involved of the chat, and yeah, sure, I agree, but
the big problem is there's not a single person it's
asking in that chat, Hey, is this the right thing
to do? Should we be doing this right? You always
need to red team it.
Speaker 3: It was also kind of brilliant though not gonna lie right,
So if you remember the person who is the person
that brought in that.
Speaker 4: That reporter, Mike Waltz Alec.
Speaker 3: Mike Waltz, wasn't he like the third pick for what
is he? The uh national security? Yeah, everybody should look
back at the previous two people that Trump and Tulsi
Yeh Tulsi wanted for her second in command. They were
both shot down, you know, Choice number one and choice
number two were shot down for not being anti Israel,
but just not being pro Israel enough. And this guy
was number three that basically sailed through the Senate confirmation
in like an hour. So if you wanted, if you
thought you had a leaker, that wasn't playing for the team.
And this guy has been vocally anti Trump in the
past and is a huge fan of you know, the levant.
Could you imagine like an easier way of like just waiting,
like letting that guy out himself because all of it,
all the media attention has been on heg Seth, right,
and all of the basically everybody that the media has
already hated already, and nobody seems none of the media
wants to talk about the guy that actually brought the
journalist in. No, I'm seeing all that conversation is being
had inside the Trump administration.
Speaker 4: He was also the guy pushing the the weaker stuff
in twenty one And yeah, I agree with you that
you know heg Seth is, I mean, he's just like
a line officer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I literally think Pete's Pete's interpreted. Pete's take on
heg Seth initial was the best, and I think it's
the one that holds true the most. What did I
say this is this is a guy that's not qualified
for the job, and he's there because he is loyal
to Donald Trump and no one else.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's that's a lot of the people
around him. But you know, when it comes to that
signal chat. Dave Smith was on Joe Rogan the other
day and he was talking about that, and he said,
to any of these people, fear God does he? You're
dropping everyone in that chat, including a Catholic, including a Hindu,
and including Protestants. We're celebrating dropping a bomb on a
fucking apartment building to kill one guy that they thought
may have something to do with.
Speaker 3: Something I wonder.
Speaker 1: This is what This is what happens to you when
your country is taken over by fucking Zionists. You become
just like them, No morality, you don't care anymore.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: You can only watch so much of what we've been
forced to watch without being changed. Right. We're watching dehumanizing
acts saying how unhuman the perpetrators of these acts are,
but it has an effect on us. You don't watch
the dehumanizing of someone else, large glonds of people without
being dehumanized yourself. Right, we are all less for what
has been happening in Gaza. Whether you're going to say, oh, well,
you know you side, but if I hear like anybody,
I mean Pete knows like uh me personally, anybody that
wants to call me a third world this, I will
happily invite you to come call me that in person.
That's not what I'm talking about, Like you can't watch
what we've been forced to watch with out being dehumanized yourself,
Like everyone's value of human life has been cheapened now
for just having been witnessed to it. I firmly believe
that because we've all been forced to abide evil as
a country, as individuals, we've been forced to look away,
whether we have no other choice but two, or whether
we've actively doing it, like the people in our government, right,
like I think you are. You are spiritually lessened by
having abided it. And I don't know what the long
term effects of it are, but I really think that
everyone has become less for having been forced literally forced
like like the fuck like clockwork Orange, our eyes taped open,
watching what happens, or watching what's been happening. You don't,
you don't do that without you don't you don't watch
what we've had to watch, eyes taped open, right, not
being able to fucking look away from it and not
be changed.
Speaker 4: One thing that really bothers me is when I see
Trump administration officials lie while wearing a cross. I have
a big problem with that, and I also have a
big problem with the lack of any kind of shame.
I mean, I mean and every you know, I agree
with everyone on the journalist thing, but you should need
to have an answer for when a journalist asks you
a hard question about ethics, and I think you have
a huge obligation as a Christian to answer honestly and
truthfully and thoughtfully. Uh, when you kill someone or when
you order someone's death, you need an answer beyond deflecting.
And it just it really rubs me the wrong way
that people can lie. We'll wearing cross.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I only wish these journalists weren't atheists, like fucking retards,
because I think a better question to be thrown at
any of these assholes. Where do your actions honor God?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: All right, that's that's it. And no, that's that's the
end right there. That's that's your actions honor God. That's
the end right there.
Speaker 2: Anybody want to promote anything.
Speaker 3: Nothing to promote, No, nothing to celebrate either, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, gentlemen, thank you so much, and uh,
let's do it again real soon.
Speaker 3: Fuck man. Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 2: Thank you,