Speaker 1: Hey, my friends, what's up.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicol and I am Ben and you are listening
Speaker 2: to Wakening.
Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast, many podcast.
Speaker 2: Material at your audience. That can always do that every.
Speaker 1: Time, you know that, right, cry podcast? And I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna get it longer and longer.
Speaker 2: It's reminded me of like a cardgo a bys like
Speaker 2: it's like it's going by the highway or something.
Speaker 1: You know, it's my thing. Thing, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: My thing is. I don't know that's my thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that very much shows your thing. I'm drinking breaking water.
Speaker 1: I don't drink enough water.
Speaker 2: I'm drinking bread mm hmm yep.
Speaker 1: So welcome, what's up?
Speaker 2: Welcome back. How's it going, guys? What's what's happening? How's
Speaker 2: your December?
Speaker 1: Christmas month? It's a Christmas month, the Christmas month, and
Speaker 1: we're going to be trying to pick Christmas themed cases.
Speaker 1: If you say you like the one that I'm doing today,
Speaker 1: it's very no and everyone's going to know it. It's
Speaker 1: just that it just happened. The event happened on Christmas.
Speaker 1: So I don't know there's themed.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's really Christmas themed. True Crimed
Speaker 2: unless it's like involving Santa Claus and elves and stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure there's some out there.
Speaker 1: I know, I maybe haven't been searching hard enough because
Speaker 1: I was searching, but I didn't really find any that
Speaker 1: were super interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll find some stuff. It's most likely it's
Speaker 2: just going to be revolving around Christmas time. But yeah,
Speaker 2: are one that's gonna fall closest to Christmas. It's going
Speaker 2: to be very Christmasy themed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna be fun.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be good.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: And we also have something else very exciting.
Speaker 2: What is that? Merch is live officially right now as
Speaker 2: this podcast, this episode has launched. You can buy our.
Speaker 1: Merl You don't have to be a Patreon, you just
Speaker 1: get to buy the merch now.
Speaker 2: Yep. So link is down below in the description of
Speaker 2: this podcast. It is also over on our social media
Speaker 2: you can find it. It's over on red Bubble. If
Speaker 2: you know red Bubble, you can search Wicket and Greatment.
Speaker 2: You can find it there. Also, we want to thank.
Speaker 1: Those over a patre oh Man do we.
Speaker 2: Ever, because we launched it early for our patrons over
Speaker 2: on Patreon and we launched an exclusive design.
Speaker 1: Just for them at Jacko Design and.
Speaker 2: You guys, I think we sold like it was like
Speaker 2: eighty items or so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just like blow us out of the water.
Speaker 2: It was ridiculous. You guys are incredible. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for that much support. Wow, we don't even know
Speaker 2: what to say now, you guys are wicked.
Speaker 1: I always get like kind of anxious in this. I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: you know, if we saw one item that would be cool.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then it always I'm just like blown away.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's so funny.
Speaker 2: And the best part about it is because we're not
Speaker 2: really doing it for money at all, Like we're not
Speaker 2: we're hardly making anything with the print on demand sort
Speaker 2: of thing. What it is is you guys actually are
Speaker 2: pretty much covering the cost of us to buy our
Speaker 2: own merch So thank you, because we do have to
Speaker 2: buy our own.
Speaker 1: Mench' yeah, we're going to be putting an order in here, well,
Speaker 1: we would have put an order and by the time
Speaker 1: this is up, yes, and we are.
Speaker 2: Going to buy a couple extra little things with that
Speaker 2: as well for giveaway stuff. So you guys, thank you
Speaker 2: very much for letting us do that and allowing us
Speaker 2: to actually purchase our own purchase our own merch and
Speaker 2: purchase giveaways for the rest of us.
Speaker 1: Seriously, just the best, the.
Speaker 3: Best, the bestest of the bestest bestest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, what do we got for today?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well, oh my goodness. So I'm going to start
Speaker 1: us off by basically asking a question forty two that
Speaker 1: is not the answer.
Speaker 2: That is the answer to everything in the universe and
Speaker 2: everything beauty pageants.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, beauty pageants, Yes, involving children. Okay,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2: That's about it?
Speaker 1: I mean that could be an unpopular opinion. I feel
Speaker 1: like in Canada beauty pageants aren't overly popular so muchish thing.
Speaker 1: But I actually remember being in Edmonton one time and
Speaker 1: I was staying at a hotel and there was some
Speaker 1: beauty pageant thing going, and like all these children were
Speaker 1: running around with like their hair done way better than mine,
Speaker 1: more makeup than me, fancy outfits, and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you fuck?
Speaker 2: Are you sure that wasn't at that like hotel resort?
Speaker 2: Where were at in Florida?
Speaker 3: Oh? Was it?
Speaker 2: I think so? Because I was there and I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure that was in Florida.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, I thought it was an Edmont definitely not. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you were there, Yes, I was there. Okay, I
Speaker 1: don't remember you being there. Thanks you, I mean for
Speaker 1: that particular moment. But that was like really the only
Speaker 1: time I've ever experienced like pageant kids I have known
Speaker 1: in like real life.
Speaker 2: I've known like some high school people like who I
Speaker 2: think my brother in law's sister, she was in some
Speaker 2: pageants when she was like a teenager. That's about it, Okay.
Speaker 1: I feel like, okay, do it as a teenager, as
Speaker 1: an adult whatever. But I guess I just when it's
Speaker 1: like little children, it's sometimes like they are they doing
Speaker 1: it on like their own free will or is it
Speaker 1: just literally their parents, Like this is what their parents
Speaker 1: want for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm not in this world,
Speaker 2: so I could be completely wrong, But as far as
Speaker 2: an outsider perspective, I see it as the parents living
Speaker 2: vicariously through their children and like forcing their kids to
Speaker 2: do some pretty extreme things for their own amusement.
Speaker 1: Enjoyment, yes, or rank, even social rank. Really yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So anyway, if that's not a clue, what the hell
Speaker 1: we're talking about So today we'll be talking about the
Speaker 1: John John Benet Ramsey murder ding dang, And I would
Speaker 1: say this is a very well known case, Like I think,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would know about this case,
Speaker 1: and it's very unfortunate because to this day it's still unsolved,
Speaker 1: is it really? Yeah, which I think is really shitty.
Speaker 2: I haven't dove into this case before, but I have
Speaker 2: heard the name.
Speaker 1: I knew a little bit about it, but yeah, this
Speaker 1: was like the first time early dove deep. I also
Speaker 1: thinking I feel like I compare this to the Gabby
Speaker 1: what was her last Gabby Ptito Petito in the fact that,
Speaker 1: like sometimes I feel like media just gravitates to like
Speaker 1: certain cases and they get like worldwide coverage more so
Speaker 1: than others. And I feel like this is one that
Speaker 1: really did well.
Speaker 2: It's no, it's it's virality. I mean, you have the
Speaker 2: same sort of thing with memes. You have it with trends, like,
Speaker 2: for example, trends on TikTok. You can have like someone
Speaker 2: doing just the stupidest dumb dance video or whatever, and
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, people.
Speaker 1: Just end up I know, like there's no reason really,
Speaker 1: but there's sometimes I think just things get picked up
Speaker 1: more than others.
Speaker 2: Right, all it takes is for the right person with
Speaker 2: influence to pick it up, and then everyone else is
Speaker 2: basically going to follow us.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So like, for example, if it's an older true crime case,
Speaker 2: if one news source decides, say Fox News decides, oh hey,
Speaker 2: this is a local murder or a local victim or
Speaker 2: some sort of case, we got an extra spot. Let's
Speaker 2: throw it on air. All of a sudden, now it's
Speaker 2: getting this national coverage because other news sources are probably
Speaker 2: going to be looking at it as well. And now
Speaker 2: it's being broadcast in your TV home, and now people
Speaker 2: are going to work and talking about it.
Speaker 1: Everyone starts talking about it, and then it's boom, it's there.
Speaker 2: So that's all it takes. It's just that, just one
Speaker 2: that one little spark.
Speaker 1: Okay. So. John bin A Ramsay was born on August sixth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety in Atlanta, Georgia. Described as a sweet natured,
Speaker 1: radiant little girl, was outgoing and loved to perform. She
Speaker 1: was a beauty pageant star, following in her mama's footsteps.
Speaker 1: Some of the titles that she had I don't know
Speaker 1: why I'm saying these, but I'm just gonna say them
Speaker 1: were American America's royal Miss, little Miss Charlavoy. I hope
Speaker 1: I'm saying that right, little Miss Colorado, Colorado State All
Speaker 1: Star Kids, Cover Girl, and National Tiny Miss Beauty.
Speaker 2: Now I ain't no beauty queen, but those sound like.
Speaker 1: Some serious titles. Yeah, I feel like they actually sound
Speaker 1: like pretty legit, like she was like the real dale here.
Speaker 1: So the Ramsey family, John Ramsey, he's the father. He
Speaker 1: was a businessman who was the president of Access Graphics,
Speaker 1: which is a computer software company, which this made the
Speaker 1: family very well off. They were. They were well off.
Speaker 2: They were well off, very well off, very well off.
Speaker 1: They were very well you'll get you'll get to hear
Speaker 1: exactly how well off they were. And interestingly enough, the dad,
Speaker 1: John wasn't super cam comfortable with the idea of pageants.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's much more I would say conservative. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's right, but anyways, he kind of
Speaker 2: follows the same mindset in this instances us.
Speaker 1: But I feel like that's super sad because it probably
Speaker 1: caused him some regret because some say it was due
Speaker 1: to John Bennet's beauty pageant experience that may have attracted
Speaker 1: the attention of child pedophiles. So that's real shitty.
Speaker 2: No kidding. I do just want to point out, for
Speaker 2: a real quick moment, when I said conservative, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying we are conservative. I'm not saying he's conservative. I'm
Speaker 2: just that one judgment call is more conservative, is what
Speaker 2: I meant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think that in a sense, someone should
Speaker 1: be conservative with their children because like, do you want
Speaker 1: this little girl in this limelight? Oh yeah, like we're
Speaker 1: child pedophiles or able to like see her dressed scantily
Speaker 1: clad like she's six. I don't know, but yeah, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna move on because I don't know. If it's
Speaker 1: an unpopular opinion, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: That's that's that's a major issue social media these days, though, too. Right.
Speaker 2: All it takes is for you to have a fun
Speaker 2: day at the beach with your kid and post a picture.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, it's scary. Oh it's so scary. Okay. Oh
Speaker 1: so Patsy Ramsey the mom Patsy Ramsey, pep pet Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Patsy Patsy Ramsey.
Speaker 2: That name is dope as fun.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's her full name or she
Speaker 1: just went by Patsy. I'm not even sure, but so
Speaker 1: she was John's second wife, also very outgoing. I feel
Speaker 1: like she was creating a mini me with her daughter.
Speaker 1: She loved to decorate, and especially at Christmas. Their house
Speaker 1: was basically like an open house, and they give neighbors
Speaker 1: tours of their beauty, beautifully decorated home. Oh fuck off,
Speaker 1: which I don't love that because then that's again just inviting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking like you who knows what the shit your neighbors
Speaker 1: are up to, right into your home. But I just, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, keep your doors locked.
Speaker 2: I just I don't know, that's like extremely full of yourself, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: come in, look what I have, Look what I do.
Speaker 2: What we show, like, that's just show body as fuck.
Speaker 1: Their home, my love was seven thousand square feet yeah, no,
Speaker 1: four floors, Like it was ginormous, Like that's a mansion.
Speaker 2: I think, well that's a fucking mansion.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it had a wine cellar, which I do love,
Speaker 1: Like I think, if you make it in this world,
Speaker 1: you got a wine cellar.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: For me to get a tiny home with a wine cellar,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's quite how that works or
Speaker 1: I may all have a separate, tiny home that's just a
Speaker 1: wine cellar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, okay.
Speaker 1: And then she also had a brother who was nine
Speaker 1: years old at the time of the murder, and his
Speaker 1: name was Burke Ramsey. And for a little bit of
Speaker 1: foreshadowing there three three individuals would all be considered suspects
Speaker 1: later on in this story.
Speaker 2: Ohh and it's unsolved too, so there are probably still
Speaker 2: suspects to this day even.
Speaker 1: Who Yeah, so though Bennett Bennet, I always want to
Speaker 1: call her something elk.
Speaker 2: It probably is what you're thinking, I think, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So John Benet was born in Atlanta, Georgia at
Speaker 1: the time of At the time of the murder, the family, however,
Speaker 1: lived in Boulder, Colorado. And I did a quick Google
Speaker 1: search of Boulder and it looked like a freaking beautiful,
Speaker 1: freaking city.
Speaker 2: Colorado in itself is a gorgeous country.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I need you need
Speaker 1: to visit that. Well.
Speaker 2: Colorado like is very similar to British Columbia as far
Speaker 2: as like the Mountain ranges.
Speaker 1: Is it okay? I didn't know that it was. It
Speaker 1: was also known to be a relatively safe city at
Speaker 1: the time, with a low crime rate, so the city
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily necessarily equipped to handle an investigation of this magnitude.
Speaker 1: It also taking place over the holidays could have seen
Speaker 1: investigators not on the clock at the particular time, which
Speaker 1: is unfortunate because you'll hear some of the errors made
Speaker 1: in the investigation that definitely could play on why this
Speaker 1: case is unsolved.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, and if it's a missing kid or miss
Speaker 2: anyone missing first twenty four hours it's like the most crucial.
Speaker 2: So if they're off on holidays and shit, not able
Speaker 2: to answer, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because it's like right Christmas time. I feel like the
Speaker 1: higher rank you are, you get holidays right, and yeah,
Speaker 1: year off. So two officers to this date are apparently
Speaker 1: still assigned to this case at the Balder Police Department. Wow,
Speaker 1: which I actually was like, Wow.
Speaker 2: No kidding, And what years did this occur?
Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety six?
Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, and they're still that legit. It's not even
Speaker 2: a close case. It's ongoing, hey, like actively ongoing.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay. So to get on with the story, it
Speaker 1: was Christmas Day nineteen ninety six. The Ramses woke up,
Speaker 1: had the morning at their house, opening gifts, making a
Speaker 1: big breakfast and then went to have dinner at a
Speaker 1: friend's house. It could literally have been described as the
Speaker 1: perfect Christmas day.
Speaker 2: Of course, dun well, before you get to the dune,
Speaker 2: done done part. Of course, it's going to be a
Speaker 2: perfect Christmas day when your family is rich as fuck. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just seven thousand square foot home with multiple Christmas trees,
Speaker 2: probably like chef's.
Speaker 1: Cooking for you, gifts that you probably got, right, of course.
Speaker 2: It's a perfect fucking Christmas Day. It could be midsummer
Speaker 2: with like like forty degrees outside Celsius by the way,
Speaker 2: for those people who are like that's cold. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you'd be like, fuck yeah, Christmas, motherfuckers, because I got
Speaker 2: all the presents and shit. Of course, the kid's gonna
Speaker 2: think it's perfect Christmas Day.
Speaker 1: I just have to say, hopefully I'm not slow to
Speaker 1: present this because I didn't really realize how burnt my
Speaker 1: tongue was. I can't tell. I started like reading this
Speaker 1: all and so it's actually like physically hurting me.
Speaker 2: So what did you eat? So I don't even know,
Speaker 2: but my.
Speaker 1: Scoldings really hurting, And now I'm like, shit, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be hard. So anyway, if I'm not acting one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. That's why, because my tongue is burned as fuck.
Speaker 2: That's why your tongue burned as the fuck.
Speaker 1: Okay, So they arrived home late, with John and Patsy
Speaker 1: saying they put John Beney to bed as soon as
Speaker 1: they got home. I believe it was around ten pm
Speaker 1: or so.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Little did they know that would be the last time
Speaker 1: they would see John Beney alive. Patsy would wake up
Speaker 1: the next day around five five thirty and headed downstairs
Speaker 1: to the kitchen around five thirty five. I'm assuming to
Speaker 1: make some coffee, because what else do you do first
Speaker 1: thing in the morning. Yeah, I don't do that. However,
Speaker 1: on the stairs she would find a two and a
Speaker 1: half page handwritten note.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, a r.
Speaker 1: Ransom note saying her daughter had been kidnapped. Not a
Speaker 1: way any parent would want to start their day. I
Speaker 1: have the contents or you're looking at me?
Speaker 2: Sorry, just there's major red flags already to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there should be. I have the contents of
Speaker 1: this letter, and I thought this might be the perfect
Speaker 1: time to bring a special guest back to read the
Speaker 1: contents of this letter.
Speaker 3: What what do you mean, jacko oh, showay no, really,
Speaker 3: mister Ramsey, listen carefully.
Speaker 4: We are a group of individuals that represent a small
Speaker 4: foreign factor. We do respect your business, but not the
Speaker 4: country that it serves. At this time, we have your
Speaker 4: daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed, and
Speaker 4: if you want her to see nineteen ninety seven, you
Speaker 4: will follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw
Speaker 4: one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One
Speaker 4: hundred thousand will be in one hundred dollar.
Speaker 2: Bills and the remaining eighteen.
Speaker 4: Thousand will be in twenties. Make sure that you bring
Speaker 4: an adequate size a cachet to the bank. When you
Speaker 4: get home, you will put the money in a brown
Speaker 4: paper bag. I will call you between eight and ten
Speaker 4: a m. Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery
Speaker 4: will be exhausting, so I advise you to be rested.
Speaker 4: If we monitor you getting the money early, we might
Speaker 4: call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the
Speaker 4: money and hence an earlier delivery pick up of your daughter.
Speaker 4: Any deviation of my instructions will result in an immediate
Speaker 4: execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her
Speaker 4: remains for proper burier. The two gentlemen watching over your
Speaker 4: daughter do not particularly like you, so I advise you
Speaker 4: do not provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation,
Speaker 4: such as police, FBI, et cetera, will result in your
Speaker 4: daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a
Speaker 4: stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies.
Speaker 4: If the money is in any way marked or tampered with,
Speaker 4: she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices, and
Speaker 4: if any are found, she dies. You can try to
Speaker 4: deceive us, but be warned that we are familiar with
Speaker 4: law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a ninety nine
Speaker 4: percent chance of killing your daughter if you try to
Speaker 4: outsmart us. Follow our instructions, and you stand a one
Speaker 4: hundred percent chance of getting her back. You and your
Speaker 4: family are under constant scrutiny as well as authorities. Don't
Speaker 4: try to grow a brain, John, You are not the
Speaker 4: only fat cat around, so don't think that killing will
Speaker 4: be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John, use that good Southern
Speaker 4: common sense of yours. It is up to you now,
Speaker 4: John Victory s B T C.
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you, jack O.
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, that was fucking awesome.
Speaker 1: That was actually super cool.
Speaker 2: Thanks for dropping that. And even though it was gonna fucking.
Speaker 1: Happen, holy super into that I planned ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay, no ship, Okay, yeah, the jackal part fucking awesome.
Speaker 2: The note holy fuck quite alarming? Hey, uh yeah, just slightly, you.
Speaker 1: Know, so a quite an alarming thing to find first
Speaker 1: thing in the morning. And b like, that's a fucking
Speaker 1: ransom note and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what was it at the end?
Speaker 1: SBTC, s BTC.
Speaker 2: I wonder what the fuck that is?
Speaker 1: And well, I'm just gonna say to this day, I
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone know was really Oh sorry, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm too comfortable. I'm about to yell at her dog.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, Mika, get out of there. She's going
Speaker 2: for the kiddie.
Speaker 1: Yes, go on your bed, come on, okay, continue, Okay.
Speaker 1: So to talk a little bit about that, it was
Speaker 1: an uncharacteristically long ransom note, yes, apparently very carefully written,
Speaker 1: and when investigators attempted to rewrite the note, they found
Speaker 1: it would take approximately twenty minutes to write that note,
Speaker 1: which is a long ass time.
Speaker 2: So there's definitely premeditation, clearly, Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So all fine and dandy, but the ransom note was
Speaker 1: actually written at the Ramsey house. Was it stationary? And
Speaker 1: a pen were used from the home, And there was
Speaker 1: allegedly a first draft even of this ransom note that
Speaker 1: was found and that what we just heard was the
Speaker 1: second draft shit, which is really fucking weird.
Speaker 2: That's it's someone in the fucking house, you know, the
Speaker 2: fucking horror movie Worse. So like I see you, you know,
Speaker 2: and they're like, then they call nine on one. They're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this weird is calling me and they're like, the call
Speaker 2: is coming from inside the house. Yeah, that's what this
Speaker 2: literally is. And I guarantee the STBC or whatever probably
Speaker 2: just a decoy. It's probably right, Yes.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably just bogus. Yeah, yeah, Because basically
Speaker 1: I was going to say, would someone have that much
Speaker 1: time to spend on a ransom note? And would they
Speaker 1: care if they made an error, like they're stealing someone's
Speaker 1: fucking child, Like, who cares if they're not leaving this
Speaker 1: perfect letter behind?
Speaker 2: Right, if they are wanting to leave a perfect letter behind,
Speaker 2: they're doing it outside, bringing it in, slapping on the table.
Speaker 1: And oh exactly. Also, oddly enough, the ransom money requested
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird number.
Speaker 1: It was a weird fucking number. But was the exact
Speaker 1: same amount of John's Christmas bonus that year.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, that's a fucking healthy bone.
Speaker 1: I know, shit, what the hell that's like? An Can
Speaker 1: I have that kind of bonus?
Speaker 2: Can I just get that for like my allowance allowance?
Speaker 1: So for that being, your bonus is fucked right up?
Speaker 1: But then for also this to have that exact amount, like,
Speaker 1: how many people would know how much his bonus was, right?
Speaker 1: I feel like very few people.
Speaker 2: No kidding.
Speaker 1: So Patsy obviously freaks the fuck out, as I'm sure
Speaker 1: any parent would do. The house awakes and they call
Speaker 1: nine one one. So I have the nine one one
Speaker 1: recording of Patsy calling in that will ship for ship.
Speaker 2: Let's hear it.
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: The man?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: I don't work left.
Speaker 1: How old is your daughter?
Speaker 4: Your god?
Speaker 1: How long ago live? I don't know. I took kill
Speaker 1: the dome and my dad kids a dame who took her.
Speaker 3: But it's the same kid.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The ransom not here, it's a ransom
Speaker 1: now because it's see see Victory.
Speaker 3: Please Okay, what's your name?
Speaker 4: Are you?
Speaker 3: Gonnappy?
Speaker 2: Lam here?
Speaker 4: I'm the mother?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, please, I'm okay, I'm colling.
Speaker 2: I'm not the film.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Do you know how long she's been?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: I don't please, we just got out and she run here.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, please, okay, body, I am honey. Please
Speaker 1: take the pepa okay, hat Patty.
Speaker 3: Catty, patty.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, the panic I know, like she's just here terrified.
Speaker 1: You can tell that she's out of breath because she's
Speaker 1: probably just running around their seven thousand square foot home
Speaker 1: looking for her daughter.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, well and like having a literal fucking panic
Speaker 2: attack like that fucking breaks my heart. And props to
Speaker 2: that fucking person on nine to one, the dispatch caller,
Speaker 2: because holy shit, she was calm.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're amazing, no kidding, like dispatch. I feel
Speaker 1: like people who do dispatch like that are just uncredible.
Speaker 1: But I feel like if the parents had anything to
Speaker 1: do with this, could you like bake that kind of emotion.
Speaker 2: I don't think the mom has anything to do with it. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't even before I had that or heard that call.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she was just like panicked.
Speaker 2: My gut doesn't say the dad either.
Speaker 1: It makes you just get goosebumps. Really, that's a sad
Speaker 1: thing to play on here, Like, yeah, it's horrific.
Speaker 2: But I do want to ask, do you know if
Speaker 2: they had any staff working in the house?
Speaker 1: Yeah they did. Yeah, okay, we'll talk about mostly one
Speaker 1: of them later. So police officer Rick French arrived at
Speaker 1: the home was just before six am and does a search.
Speaker 1: During her search, he supposedly passed a door in the basement.
Speaker 1: Paused outside that door, but they didn't open it, and
Speaker 1: I don't really know why, but for but behind that
Speaker 1: door was John John Benet's body.
Speaker 2: What yeah, oh shit, so the dad's dad.
Speaker 1: Oh no John Benney.
Speaker 2: Oh oh shoot, sorry, I thought John.
Speaker 1: Was the dad for so was the kill John Benney
Speaker 1: is acting. I didn't even put that. And is named
Speaker 1: after the dad because the dad's it was like John
Speaker 1: Bennett Ramsey, gotcha, So they named John Beney anyway, So yeah,
Speaker 1: that in behind that door was the little girl. But
Speaker 1: I put just basically putting this in there to show
Speaker 1: like how unthorough that initial search by the place was.
Speaker 2: No shit, that is okay, even if Wow, Okay, hold on, whoa,
Speaker 2: whoa what are you? Okay, whoa? I need to back
Speaker 2: up here.
Speaker 1: What fuck?
Speaker 2: So she was already dead. She was already dead and
Speaker 2: stashed in the fucking house. Yes, then how the fuck
Speaker 2: would they even hope to get the ransom because of
Speaker 2: course the body was is gonna be found fairly quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all like that note is staged, like she
Speaker 1: was already downstairs in the basement dead.
Speaker 2: And no one heard any scream. Holy fuck.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I didn't put this in there either, but
Speaker 1: since you said that there was a neighbor at one point,
Speaker 1: I think it was like two in the morning did
Speaker 1: hear a scream, okay, but didn't do anything about it.
Speaker 1: I mean it was just a single scream, I think,
Speaker 1: and it was basically like the bottom level and how
Speaker 1: the window was. The neighbor would be able to hear it,
Speaker 1: because they later tested this, but where the parents were,
Speaker 1: like fucking how many stories up? Yeah, wouldn't hear this.
Speaker 1: So in my opinion, it's like, don't get a mansion,
Speaker 1: get a tiny home because like you want to hear
Speaker 1: of your children are screaming in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: do not. Yeah, like holy that terrifies me.
Speaker 2: Well, nowadays there are like monitors and shit too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but at six you probably don't still have a
Speaker 1: monitor in your kids. So I'm just like, Wow, anyway,
Speaker 1: where the hell am I?
Speaker 2: You're taking us on a fucking roller coaster. That's where
Speaker 2: you are. You're heading this thing. You're fucking hitting high speed.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I just dropped the bomb. But they at
Speaker 1: that point, they didn't think that they were looking for
Speaker 1: a dead body, right, So at that point they're not
Speaker 1: thinking that they were. But there could have been clues
Speaker 1: all through the house. Like I know the house is
Speaker 1: man massive, but like opening all open every door, like
Speaker 1: look in every room, like there could be evidence and
Speaker 1: shit and clues.
Speaker 2: So I'm surprised the mom didn't find her.
Speaker 1: Well why would I don't know. She's probably going in
Speaker 1: her room and like, yeah, areas normally is she probably
Speaker 1: doesn't hang out on the base, true, Yeah, Okay, I don't.
Speaker 2: I imagine she wouldn't literally check every square into the house.
Speaker 2: She's panicking, Yeah, Like that's a giant house.
Speaker 1: So aside from the police, Patsy also calls around the
Speaker 1: neighborhood and family friends. I'm assuming to kind of form
Speaker 1: some sort of like part search party. But I also
Speaker 1: don't know if I feel okay about that because the
Speaker 1: ransom note said don't even talk to a stray fucking dog. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And here she's already phoned the police, she's phoning friends,
Speaker 1: she's phoning neighbors. Like I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: do people follow ransom notes or do they just like not, Like,
Speaker 1: I have absolutely no idea, but I was just like,
Speaker 1: I feel like I would follow it. I'd be terrified
Speaker 1: to be phoning my friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is so holy This case is fucked because
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there thinking, look, okay, yeah, sure you're panicked.
Speaker 2: You're gonna be fucking calling nine one one doing that,
Speaker 2: but you're not gonna be calling your fucking friends and shit,
Speaker 2: whether they say don't call police or not, clearly you're
Speaker 2: probably gonna call police.
Speaker 1: I know, I think I would call the police. But
Speaker 1: then I'm also in my mind, Okay, maybe she's just
Speaker 1: calling all these people to help search for her daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you do, your daughter's dead, I know.
Speaker 1: So it's like it wasn't almost taking that note seriously whatsoever.
Speaker 2: And also, here's the thing. One hundred and eighteen grand
Speaker 2: was a ransom, right, Yeah, just so happened to be
Speaker 2: his fucking Christmas bonus.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: If someone was holding my child ransom for my Christmas bonus,
Speaker 2: that's fucking chump change.
Speaker 1: Well, and they got it. They did get the money,
Speaker 1: like they got it instantly, Like it didn't take John
Speaker 1: very long. He got the fucking money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So why wouldn't he just be like, Okay, let's
Speaker 2: just fucking get the police involved. Let's pay this and
Speaker 2: fucking try and get our daughter back and then track
Speaker 2: these fuckers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See, we're going I'm going like I'm throwing so
Speaker 1: much more extra information in here. This might be a
Speaker 1: long episode. Where was it going here?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be obsessed with this case after this just
Speaker 2: seeming like holy fuck.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Now I don't think I forget what
Speaker 1: we were talking about. Then I'm like, so my brain
Speaker 1: is just done, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes. So A
Speaker 1: lot of people felt that the family also didn't take
Speaker 1: the time seriously because I think it said like eight
Speaker 1: and ten am they needed to have the money by right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it also said to moral So when I read that,
Speaker 1: I felt like it was the twenty seventh that they
Speaker 1: needed to have that money. But then most people are
Speaker 1: taking in as that morning that they needed to have
Speaker 1: the money, because but that morning eight to ten am
Speaker 1: went and came and went, and no one fucking said
Speaker 1: a word. The parents weren't like watching the clock or
Speaker 1: like or like, why are they fucking not calling us?
Speaker 1: Like it's ten oh one? So I don't know.
Speaker 2: It doesn't it doesn't have any sort of like specification
Speaker 2: on a date.
Speaker 1: Well, no, it just set eight to ten am to moral.
Speaker 1: It does say tomorrow, Yes it does, because I double
Speaker 1: checked that, because when I first read that, I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's the next day. But then technically if she got
Speaker 1: murdered at like Christmas Day at like eleven pm, like,
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I was like super unclear with that.
Speaker 2: I would assume, well, you wake up and find the
Speaker 2: ransom note, it's going to be the next day.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I thought. But then there was a
Speaker 1: lot there was reports that I was reading that were
Speaker 1: basically faulting the parents for not being concerned that that
Speaker 1: at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's just because it's hindsight, because they found
Speaker 2: the daughter dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that time passed before they found the daughter dead.
Speaker 2: When did they find the daughter dead?
Speaker 1: Not till later in the afternoon, dude, But.
Speaker 2: That day, not tomorrow, that day. Yeah, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people are thinking that it should
Speaker 1: be that day.
Speaker 2: I know. But the only reason they're thinking that is
Speaker 2: because they found the daughter. That's hindsight. They're not saying
Speaker 2: that in that I know. They're not investigators aren't like
Speaker 2: it's fucking eleven, you guys need to be hustling. And
Speaker 2: then they find the daughter dead an hour later. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if they found the daughter and then later on people
Speaker 2: sleuth like us or whatever are saying, well, they should
Speaker 2: have done du diligence.
Speaker 1: But I but I think it was the next day.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's just so much weird shit in this case, Like
Speaker 1: it's weird. It's it's already weird. And god, rum's only
Speaker 1: halfway here. Okay, let's move on here.
Speaker 2: This this is a fucking intense one. I'm going to
Speaker 2: have major opinions. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Oh just see, you mean to tell you we get
Speaker 1: to all the accused or suspects. Okay, So I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of behind the scene shit happened, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't until the early afternoon when Linda, the first detective
Speaker 1: on the scene, pulled aside John and a friend and
Speaker 1: requested them to do a top to bottom search of
Speaker 1: the home, which was like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Wait wait wait, wait wait, why don't the investigators do it?
Speaker 1: I know, like, I think the police should have already
Speaker 1: done that, But then I'm also like, maybe John's going
Speaker 1: to know if anything's missing or misplaced aside from the police, right,
Speaker 1: and like giving him something to do. So it was
Speaker 1: at that point that during the search that John would
Speaker 1: open the spare room door in the basement and find
Speaker 1: John Benet's body.
Speaker 3: Shit.
Speaker 1: It looked like she had been strangled and her mouth
Speaker 1: and neck were covered with duct tape and her hands
Speaker 1: and feet were bound. It says bound, but it's so
Speaker 1: say bound. He immediately picks her up, oh forkes and
Speaker 1: runs upstairs screaming, my baby. The duct tape gets removed
Speaker 1: from John Benet's body and she is placed under the
Speaker 1: Christmas tree and covered with a blanket once it is
Speaker 1: determined that she is no longer alive. Now, before you
Speaker 1: say anything, some people question that he tampered with a
Speaker 1: lot of evidence doing this, But you just never know
Speaker 1: what you're going to do in that kind of situation, right,
Speaker 1: Like I don't find that completely abnormal that a father
Speaker 1: would find his dead little girl and like school per
Speaker 1: up and arms and like bring her to safety, because
Speaker 1: I don't think that he even one hundred percent had
Speaker 1: grasped at that moment that she was deceased.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, that's that's fine. I mean, of course, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, fuck, yeah, he just tamper with the crime scene.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I can't blame him. He just found his
Speaker 2: daughter dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like he fucked up.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I get it.
Speaker 1: Oh, like just seeing your like just like help me,
Speaker 1: like my baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the only thing is like removing all the
Speaker 2: duct tape. What do they do with the duct tape
Speaker 2: because that could hold a shit ton of evidence, like hair, fingerprints.
Speaker 1: But I don't know what they did with the duct tape.
Speaker 1: I think it did get tested actually, and there was
Speaker 1: red fibers or something on it, but I didn't super
Speaker 1: look into that. Okay, but by moving the body, evidence
Speaker 1: was obviously tainted. But let's also be real for a second,
Speaker 1: because evidence was already tainted by the investigators not properly
Speaker 1: securing the crime scene from the beginning for sure, allowing
Speaker 1: the Ramses to be able to have friends over. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of people were in that house, and apparently
Speaker 1: at one point in time, the kitchen got fucking sprayed
Speaker 1: with a cleaner from top to bottom.
Speaker 2: Why.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it was like people thinking
Speaker 1: they were being helpful, like, let's clean their fucking kitchen
Speaker 1: for them. But like, we have no idea that ransom
Speaker 1: note could have been written in the kitchen, right, it
Speaker 1: was found near the kitchen.
Speaker 2: So let me get this straight. There is a kidnapping
Speaker 2: that and there's a ransom left that says do not
Speaker 2: call police or contact anybody. Yeah, first thing, the parents
Speaker 2: do call police and then contact everybody they fucking know
Speaker 2: and invite them over.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Second of all, the police then arrive and let all
Speaker 2: these people in the house. Yeah, and then don't search
Speaker 2: the house thoroughly, let people walk around the house and
Speaker 2: also help in the search. Yeah inside the house. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so literally doing everything you're not supposed to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, Like it just shows some complete inexperience
Speaker 1: on just so many levels, like just so many All right,
Speaker 1: are you okay?
Speaker 2: I just feel like they went like their local middle
Speaker 2: school and got like the hall pass monitors to process
Speaker 2: a crime scene.
Speaker 1: And I feel like we would almost do better.
Speaker 2: I feel like fucking Mika and Ripley could do a
Speaker 2: better fucking crime scene investigation. Get a couple huskies on
Speaker 2: the scene.
Speaker 4: They've done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So at ten forty five that night, the Balder
Speaker 1: County Corners team would remove John Benet's body from the house,
Speaker 1: which I also feel like, that's a ridiculously long time
Speaker 1: for it to just be lan. Yeah. The autopsy would
Speaker 1: show that little John Benet had been killed by strangulation
Speaker 1: and a skull fracture. She was struck on the head
Speaker 1: so violently that her skull had an eight point five
Speaker 1: inch fracture jeez, which is like long, Like that's huge.
Speaker 2: That's what she said.
Speaker 4: I was saying that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I shouldn't say this, no, but legit, yes,
Speaker 1: you're a little kid. I mean, I don't think your
Speaker 1: skull actually girls, but does does it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I thought that your head was kind of the size
Speaker 1: that it was going to be ish for most of you. No, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: I have no idea you apparently. Okay, So from that,
Speaker 1: could you imagine that, dum. I don't know why I'm
Speaker 1: getting something mixed up. I think with that, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but let's long go there. We're not talking about child
Speaker 1: birth right now. John Bennet was strangled with a and
Speaker 1: I think you say, grot made from cord and the
Speaker 1: handle of one of Patsy's broken paint brushes, And I like,
Speaker 1: research what the hell that was, and it makes no
Speaker 1: sense to me, but it's like, I think it makes
Speaker 1: you be able to strangle someone easier, tighter.
Speaker 2: Is it like like a handle on either end of
Speaker 2: the rope sort of thing, so you have like two
Speaker 2: handles and then a rope and you go around the
Speaker 2: back sort of thing or so.
Speaker 1: But then I thought that the wood or no, maybe
Speaker 1: it was on the end.
Speaker 2: So was it like you wrap it around and you
Speaker 2: start twisting the handle so it slowly tightens.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's pictures of this, of this thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I'll give it a Google.
Speaker 1: But it's basically I think the gist of it is
Speaker 1: like basically helps you strangle someone easier and better. Oh god,
Speaker 1: there was evidence of Okay, there was no evidence of
Speaker 1: conventional rape, but DNA was found on John Benny's underwear,
Speaker 1: and there was evidence of vaginal injury. It had appeared
Speaker 1: her vaginal area had been wiped with a cloth. Her
Speaker 1: death was very obviously ruled a homicide.
Speaker 2: Geez.
Speaker 1: There was more details about the like, yeah, no thing,
Speaker 1: but let's just not go there.
Speaker 2: A grot as far as I can see just quick
Speaker 2: Google Google. Is yeah, like the wire with like two
Speaker 2: wooden handles in the either end so you can like
Speaker 2: get leverage and hold onto it nice and tight and good,
Speaker 2: which is just gross. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that was made at the house too,
Speaker 1: because it was it was using like a paint brush,
Speaker 1: broken paint brush of Patsy's. So a couple odd tidbits.
Speaker 1: The autopsy revealed John Benet had eaten pineapple a few
Speaker 1: hours before dying, and photographs taken at the home on
Speaker 1: the day when her body was found do show a
Speaker 1: bowl of pineapple in the kitchen, but neither parent remembers
Speaker 1: putting the bowl on the table or feeding pineapple to
Speaker 1: John Benet. Police reported that they found Burke's fingerprints on
Speaker 1: the bowl. John Benet's nine year old brother. A flashlight
Speaker 1: was also found in the home that the Ramsey family
Speaker 1: stated did not belong to them, so it believed this
Speaker 1: could be what was used to hit John Binney in
Speaker 1: the head. Now the days, months, and even years after
Speaker 1: John Benet's murder, the family was put through through the Ringer.
Speaker 1: They were asked to provide hair, blood, handwriting samples to
Speaker 1: the investigators. Their homes plural were searched, and they appeared
Speaker 1: in the media. On January first, nineteen ninety seven, they
Speaker 1: did a forty five minute long interview on CNN basically
Speaker 1: reassuring their innocence and warning the residents of Balder that
Speaker 1: there's a murderer on the loose and to keep your
Speaker 1: babies safe. And I found that very interesting that they
Speaker 1: did an interview so quickly, because that's really only days
Speaker 1: since they found out their child was killed, right, But
Speaker 1: I think they were people that were very concerned with
Speaker 1: their reputation and the fact that they were getting accused
Speaker 1: of murdering their own child was probably just horrifying to them.
Speaker 2: That does make sense a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Their appearance on CNN also shocked investigators though, since
Speaker 1: they had claimed earlier to be too emotional to talk
Speaker 1: to the police, but then they went into the CN
Speaker 1: en thing. Okay, So that basically moves us into discussing
Speaker 1: the suspects. There have been over one hundred and forty
Speaker 1: suspects in this case. Shit, that's not in a low number.
Speaker 1: But I'll just be touching on the main suspects, which
Speaker 1: brings us, which brings me to John Benet's parents. This
Speaker 1: is in no particular order, okay. So John and Patsy
Speaker 1: were officially named as suspects in April of nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: just a few months after the murder, but in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight they were formally exonerated thanks to develop
Speaker 1: developments in DNA technology. Because two thousand and six DNA
Speaker 1: technology I don't think was very idvanced, Like you barely
Speaker 1: had the Internet, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: Not compared to today. It was like just starting to
Speaker 2: like explode, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Though many still suspect them. And here's why. So
Speaker 1: for Patsy, who unfortunately is no longer with us. She
Speaker 1: died in two thousand and six from a thirteen year
Speaker 1: battle with cancer, which is really sad. It's thought that
Speaker 1: Patsy killed John Benet on accident in a fit of
Speaker 1: rage after she wet her bed once again, apparently Benet
Speaker 1: had like a bed wedding thing. I think that's a
Speaker 1: kid thing. Oh right, It's common basically that a switch
Speaker 1: flipped and Patsy slammed her daughter's head up against something hard,
Speaker 1: maybe decided the bathtub, and then went to great lengths
Speaker 1: to cover it up. Some points or evidence, if you will,
Speaker 1: on that the home made grot am I saying that right, yep,
Speaker 1: tie tied around John Benny's neck did use one of
Speaker 1: Patsy's paint brushes from her art supplies. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's very good reasoning. The bizarre ransom note discovered by
Speaker 1: Patsy had been speculated to have been written by Patsy herself.
Speaker 1: She would have known the amount her husband's bonus was.
Speaker 1: It was written on her stationary and point it was
Speaker 1: said the handwriting appeared to match to her own handwriting,
Speaker 1: though that was later found inclusive. And then there's the
Speaker 1: whole criticizing of Patsy for sexualizing John Benet through a
Speaker 1: string of beauty patcheants.
Speaker 2: The motive is off though she was strangled, so.
Speaker 1: She's gonna yeah, but they're saying yeah, they're saying yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually the autopsy showed she was strangled, because even
Speaker 1: if she had killed her and hit her head like
Speaker 1: to fake that later would just.
Speaker 2: Be kind of yeah, there would just be some post
Speaker 2: mortem damage and a thing wrapped around her neck. They'd
Speaker 2: be able to tell, no problem.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I feel like some of the
Speaker 1: things that they should have been able to tell they
Speaker 1: didn't tell. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the autopsy is not an investigator unseen. Her
Speaker 2: body would have been taken away into a lab by
Speaker 2: a very specific individual processed or body.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So for John, it's basically his weird actions
Speaker 1: the morning of the murder. But I really don't think
Speaker 1: people can judge a parent for that, Like stress, grief, trauma,
Speaker 1: they have very weird ways of affecting people, and you
Speaker 1: have no idea how you're gonna be affected basically yep.
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's mostly Linda. That detective on
Speaker 1: scene that I mentioned earlier, had an interview she did
Speaker 1: that has a lot to say about him. So one
Speaker 1: thing I don't think I mentioned above, there were no
Speaker 1: footsteps found in the snow outside or around the home,
Speaker 1: but it was never mentioned if it had snow at all,
Speaker 1: say during the night, but they did they took that
Speaker 1: as a sign of the intruder. That the intruder or
Speaker 1: murderer was basically from inside the house. So John, in
Speaker 1: a much later interview, said the police drew a conclusion
Speaker 1: immediately and then tried to find evidence to prove it.
Speaker 1: That's fair, Yeah, Okay, So Linda sent John and the
Speaker 1: neighbor to search the house for evidence, right, apparently, saying
Speaker 1: John immediately went downstairs to basically where John Bennet was.
Speaker 1: I personally think though, if you were hiding something yourself,
Speaker 1: you would not fucking start there, Like you would probably
Speaker 1: place it almost in the middle or something, or the end,
Speaker 1: maybe not the end, but the middle probably right.
Speaker 2: You'd probably start complete opposite direction and then like work
Speaker 2: your way, like you say, middle to there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't I think that's ridiculous. Then how
Speaker 1: he carried her body upstairs, removing tape from her mouth,
Speaker 1: placing a blanket over her, and basically destroying evidence that
Speaker 1: could have been vital after being told not to disturb anything,
Speaker 1: but touched on that. Yeah, And that's I guess when
Speaker 1: Linda started to feel that perhaps knew something too much,
Speaker 1: convincing herself that the murderer was in the house with
Speaker 1: her and apparently quietly counting the bullets in her holster
Speaker 1: just in case she had to use one. Oh she
Speaker 1: so she had just, like I think, a bad feeling
Speaker 1: and like sent something from John. So it's kind of like, Lynda,
Speaker 1: I feel like her senses that are pointing John as
Speaker 1: a suspect in a way.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the family is usually considered a suspect.
Speaker 1: The goo they are. It was also suspicious that John
Speaker 1: was heard making arrangements to fly the family to Atlanta.
Speaker 1: I believe they had had a home there, but some
Speaker 1: reports say they had already planned to go to Atlanta,
Speaker 1: and John himself said at that point they had been
Speaker 1: asked to leave their house and just wanted to go
Speaker 1: home to Atlanta, where they had previously lived for twenty
Speaker 1: five years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Speaker 1: So I don't find that makes So that's basically why
Speaker 1: John's a suspect.
Speaker 2: Well, would put it this way. Your daughter was just
Speaker 2: murdered in that house and you have other houses. Do
Speaker 2: you want to stay the night in that house even
Speaker 2: if you're allowed to.
Speaker 1: No, But the investigators are like, you can't leave town,
Speaker 1: like you know, I mean, but if you had other
Speaker 1: most people don't have the option of going to another house.
Speaker 1: Like if you had another house, and I think he
Speaker 1: also had like a private plane, you would just like,
Speaker 1: why would you go to a hotel? You just go
Speaker 1: to your other house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: So next up and the last of the family members
Speaker 1: accused would be Bururke.
Speaker 2: This motherfucker. This is we haven't said a word about
Speaker 2: him yet except the fingerprints, the fingerprints on the bowl.
Speaker 2: So that makes me say, some shit is about to
Speaker 2: get dropped. Let's fucking hear it. This little cocksucker.
Speaker 1: I don't know this. This is like I guess the
Speaker 1: one that could be the most legitimate and had bought
Speaker 1: the possibility. But I'm also on the fence of like,
Speaker 1: I don't think our team, I don't really think any
Speaker 1: of the family did it. But here we go. So
Speaker 1: with the brother, the theory is that Burke was having
Speaker 1: a snack of pineapple in the kitchen. Okay, John Beney
Speaker 1: came downstairs after being put to bed, being like a
Speaker 1: little annoying sister, stole a piece of his pineapple, and
Speaker 1: he then grabbed the flashlight that was on the counter
Speaker 1: and hit her across the head with it. Okay, some
Speaker 1: say it could have also been out of jealousy as well. Okay,
Speaker 1: that he did this, because I'm sure the pageants at
Speaker 1: times there was a lot of focus on John Beney.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's center of attention.
Speaker 1: Like I think she was probably constantly the center of attention.
Speaker 2: She's a little pageant queen, right.
Speaker 1: The parents then not wanting to lose both children because
Speaker 1: if John Bennet was like accused of this, like he
Speaker 1: might have to go to juvenile detention or or like
Speaker 1: hospital of sorts or something, So they then go through
Speaker 1: the motions to cover the accidental murder. Up. I should
Speaker 1: say that flashlight though, was found with no tra evidence
Speaker 1: of either John Bennet or Burke, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: The parents were diligently still shielded. There you go, I
Speaker 1: spelt it wrong, So I said it how I spelt it.
Speaker 1: Burke from the media for years, but in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, doctor Phil would actually interview Burke, and a
Speaker 1: lot of judgment against him came from this interview. He
Speaker 1: basically I think he was getting paid to this interview
Speaker 1: and then also was like hoping to clear the air,
Speaker 1: but he came across this kind of grinning at times
Speaker 1: when asked like ridiculously awkward questions, like he'd be like smiling,
Speaker 1: but I say that it was kind of almost more
Speaker 1: of like a nervous grin than like a spiteful grin.
Speaker 2: Okay, Like to be.
Speaker 1: Honest, when I'm uncomfortable, I fucking laugh. It's really awkward,
Speaker 1: and like I wish I didn't do it, but I'll laugh.
Speaker 2: You did show me like a very brief clip of that,
Speaker 2: Like I think I saw like ten seconds of them,
Speaker 2: and it just looked like he was just an awkward person.
Speaker 1: Not like like he's just he was also probably so uncomfortable. Yes,
Speaker 1: but it looks to doctor Phil for God's sake, and it.
Speaker 2: Looks like he's socially awkward and then on top of it,
Speaker 2: super uncomfortable, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Which she might have always been socially awkward, but just
Speaker 1: imagine this trauma that came to this family from this incident, right,
Speaker 1: Like that would change your life to be you'd be
Speaker 1: a completely different person.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, lastly, John Bennet had marks on her back consistent
Speaker 1: with a stun gun. And this isn't mentioned in many places,
Speaker 1: but if she had, if she was stunned in my opinion,
Speaker 1: that's a big piece to the puzzle. A family member
Speaker 1: would not need to use a stun gun on her,
Speaker 1: But in the case of the brother being a suspect,
Speaker 1: they're saying the wounds were consistent with the edges of
Speaker 1: one of his toy train tracks, and he may have
Speaker 1: used it to poke his sister's unconscious body. For a response,
Speaker 1: you'd have.
Speaker 2: To poke pretty fuck.
Speaker 1: He's nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because those those stun gun things they fucking.
Speaker 1: Jab in like they sticky, and like I think if
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my gosh, did I hurt my sister
Speaker 1: just tapping her, you wouldn't be.
Speaker 2: Like fucking stabbing her with train tracks? Wake up, Like,
Speaker 2: That's not how it's going to go.
Speaker 1: I know. So, since this is an unsolved case with
Speaker 1: a lack of evidence to point to a definite suspect,
Speaker 1: I think it's really sad what this family had had
Speaker 1: to deal with, on top of also dealing with the
Speaker 1: loss of one of their own. I mean, I'll probably
Speaker 1: I could eat those words one day if one of
Speaker 1: them is like discovered to have been the murderer. But
Speaker 1: in my personal opinion, it doesn't seem like they were.
Speaker 2: Well I'm really curious. Do you have anything about any
Speaker 2: staff in the house.
Speaker 1: Well done with the suspect.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, I thought you were okay, because that's I'm
Speaker 2: not too sold on any of the family members yet. No,
Speaker 2: I can't think of a scenario off the top of
Speaker 2: my head. But if it is any family member, all
Speaker 2: I can think of is it's accidental in some way
Speaker 2: that hasn't been discovered, because the ones that we talked
Speaker 2: about don't make sense to me.
Speaker 1: Some sort of accident and there is a cover up,
Speaker 1: But then the strangulation doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 2: It doesn't. It doesn't unless it was like some sort
Speaker 2: of fucking thing where the kids are playing and she
Speaker 2: ended up getting strangled because they were I don't know
Speaker 2: what they were doing, like maybe playing in blankets or something.
Speaker 1: She got twisted up or tied and then you'd also
Speaker 1: just hit her head.
Speaker 2: Maybe she's getting fucking strangled like with the blanket as
Speaker 2: they're playing on the couches or something, and she frantically
Speaker 2: trying to run away and then falls and smacks her head.
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2: There's something like I feel like, if it's the family,
Speaker 2: there's some weird shit like that. That happened, and they're
Speaker 2: trying to cover it up, Yeah, for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Well, I know, and they I don't even think they
Speaker 1: would necessarily have to cover it up because they were
Speaker 1: like rich as fuck, right, Yeah, and they could hire
Speaker 1: They even lawyered up for this, right, so they could
Speaker 1: hire good lawyers, and I think they would have been
Speaker 1: able to be fine.
Speaker 2: It just it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: There's no there's no motive. The only motive I can
Speaker 2: think of is accidental, and any sort of accident would
Speaker 2: have to be fucking like a one end of a
Speaker 2: jillion fucking shot.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there's there's a few more suspects, five more suspects,
Speaker 1: and I'm just very briefly going to touch on them.
Speaker 1: So first one being referred to as the town drifter,
Speaker 1: Gary Olivia was his name, and he was a known
Speaker 1: sex offender living in the area on and off. Police
Speaker 1: allegedly found a magazine cutout of John Bennet in his
Speaker 1: backpack after being apprehended on drug charges. Also on him
Speaker 1: at the time of his arrest was a stun gun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it, what I think that's the most
Speaker 1: legitimate one.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about the DMC on the tip of the stunt?
Speaker 1: Just wait, not even done with this one, and you're
Speaker 1: like no, okay. So his high school friend even stepped
Speaker 1: forward at one point, claiming that not long after the murder,
Speaker 1: Gary had called him on the phone and confess that
Speaker 1: he hurt a little girl okay, and that he was
Speaker 1: particularly unsettled by the type of knots that were used
Speaker 1: on the girlt I've said them most with the French
Speaker 1: accent that strangled John Benet, as they were similar to
Speaker 1: Kntscary had previously previously used when he attempted to choke
Speaker 1: his mother with a.
Speaker 2: Telephone court Oh shit, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: I don't know however, he was cleared by DNA testing,
Speaker 1: all right, So, but I feel like that scenario to
Speaker 1: me is like the most likely.
Speaker 2: The thing that plagues me though, is the one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighteen very specific number that's.
Speaker 1: True, because yeah, that wouldn't because if you knew how
Speaker 1: rich these people were, you would be asking for more
Speaker 1: money and.
Speaker 2: How much time spent in the house writing a note.
Speaker 2: That's still another thing. Someone like that I don't think
Speaker 2: would hang around very long.
Speaker 1: But then technically, like their house is giant. Someone could
Speaker 1: just be like almost living in there and they probably
Speaker 1: woudn't even know. Really that's true.
Speaker 2: But still the less time spent, if there's someone spending
Speaker 2: a lot of time in there, there's probably more evidence.
Speaker 1: Because there was one thing. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: say it later on, but there was a broken window
Speaker 1: too in the basement, and this broken window had like
Speaker 1: spider webs on the bottom of it. So they felt
Speaker 1: like it was almost staged because if someone was like
Speaker 1: exiting through this broken window, that the Spiroers would have
Speaker 1: gone wrecked. But I don't necessarily agree with that.
Speaker 2: And then there was no footprints, right if there was
Speaker 2: a broken window, they would have noticed.
Speaker 1: For yeah, So I don't know. That's why I didn't
Speaker 1: even put that in there, because it's like, like there's
Speaker 1: so much just weirdness. Okay, So next would be Michael Hellgolf.
Speaker 1: He was an electrician who worked in a nearby auto
Speaker 1: salvage yard who was in a property dispute involving the
Speaker 1: Ramsies and a bootprint. So they did find a bootprint. Apparently,
Speaker 1: a bootprint allegedly similar to Michael's was found near the
Speaker 1: MZI home, and this is awful. After finding out he
Speaker 1: was listed as a possible suspect, he committed suicide before
Speaker 1: anyone could get to him.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, yeah, that m holy fuck. That's that's a
Speaker 2: huge red flag. I know, right, that says a lot
Speaker 2: of guilt, But that was just terrified what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he or he has mental health issues or something,
Speaker 1: and then and he was already struggling or something and
Speaker 1: then finds out that he's that note like and then
Speaker 1: just puts them over the edge. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so hard to say.
Speaker 1: But I know, not great. So the next suspect is
Speaker 1: John Mark Karm. He's a former school teacher and someone
Speaker 1: who actually confessed to the crime.
Speaker 2: So we have two people officially confessing to the crime. Then,
Speaker 2: so you have that wanderer. Dude.
Speaker 1: Well I don't know if the wanderer confessed though.
Speaker 2: Well, he confessed to hurting a little girl.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, I see where're going. So at
Speaker 1: the time of his confession, he was living in Thailand,
Speaker 1: where he'd been living and running away from facing child
Speaker 1: pornography charges. So he's a real winner. He sent an
Speaker 1: email confessing to the crime and his sexual fascination with
Speaker 1: John Bennet. He was cleared when the DNA wasn't a
Speaker 1: match and written off as a pedophile who was after.
Speaker 2: Nodery notoriety.
Speaker 1: I can't even speak and fame so like gross, like
Speaker 1: a nasty motherfucker human, like who the fuck wants.
Speaker 2: That's like the fucking don't fuck with Cat's guy.
Speaker 1: Basically, oh god, we're not talking about that right now.
Speaker 2: Fuck that guy.
Speaker 1: Okay, two more Linda Hoffman Pugh, I think is how
Speaker 1: you say her name would be the next suspect?
Speaker 2: Wasn't she the investigator?
Speaker 1: No different, different, Linda, Linda good good observation there you're listening,
Speaker 1: would be would be the next aspect, And being that
Speaker 1: she was the family's hossekeeper, she had full access to
Speaker 1: the home and family's schedules and the.
Speaker 2: Ability to potentially find out.
Speaker 1: The mount that he absolutely she could have found that
Speaker 1: out as she was cleaning his desk. Patsy herself at
Speaker 1: one point accusing Linda, saying her and her husband her
Speaker 1: husband was their handyman, were struggling for money and asked
Speaker 1: for a loan, but the Ramses declined them. So the
Speaker 1: idea is that Linda and her husband came up with
Speaker 1: this plan to basically trick the Ramses into leaving them
Speaker 1: John's Christmas boldness as a ransom for John Bennet. Linda, though,
Speaker 1: pointed fingers at Patsy, saying she thought she had multiple
Speaker 1: personalities and would get in arguments with John Bennet. So
Speaker 1: clearly there was some tension between Patsy and Linda. So
Speaker 1: I don't know how legit that one is.
Speaker 2: Is that all for her? Okay, Yeah, I'm not buying it.
Speaker 2: There's there there's no evidence there. It's just an accusation.
Speaker 1: That's it, Okay, And it was, oh, okay, this is
Speaker 1: this is sorry. I'm just like, there's so much Like
Speaker 1: I could probably talk about this for like five episodes.
Speaker 2: This is why I like mystery won so much. Unsolved
Speaker 2: is because the theories. I fucking love going into theories.
Speaker 1: So Patsy when they were asked at one point, like
Speaker 1: who do you think could hurt your daughter? Right, and
Speaker 1: Patsy threw out Linda and John Ramsey had actually thrown
Speaker 1: out that electrician that I said that like killed himself, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So but it's just random. I feel like if someone
Speaker 1: was like, if something happened bad or whatever, and They're like,
Speaker 1: who do you think would do this? Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I could come up with someone that like
Speaker 1: hated me.
Speaker 2: That much, I could, Yeah, I don't know which.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with? Okay, And the last main suspect, you ready, No,
Speaker 1: Santa Claus himself?
Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: Bill, Bill McReynolds aka the town Santa, You fucking serious?
Speaker 1: He was a friend of the Ramsies and dressed up
Speaker 1: as Santa the week before the murder to entertain the
Speaker 1: neighborhood at one of Patsy's Christmas gatherings. Santa, how could
Speaker 1: you rumored to have paid a little bit too much
Speaker 1: attention to John Bennet? H And that's all I'm going
Speaker 1: to say about that one.
Speaker 2: Fuck Santa, You're dirty, old man? Geez, what is with you?
Speaker 2: Come on?
Speaker 1: So, there you have it, a twenty five year old
Speaker 1: case that I sure hope is solved one day, but
Speaker 1: I fear it won't be. And it sure would be
Speaker 1: interesting to see what would have come of John Benet
Speaker 1: if she was alive today, if she would have become
Speaker 1: a star, as it seemed she was definitely on track
Speaker 1: to be one.
Speaker 2: Did you really have to end that on a note
Speaker 2: of Santa Claus being a Fido like, geez, Christmas.
Speaker 1: Wow, oh he was listed. Do you want me to
Speaker 1: this is a Christmas episode? Do you want me to that?
Speaker 2: It was well played, well played, But poor John, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: And John ben A Yeah, yeah, holy shit. That is
Speaker 1: just the fact that it's been so long and hasn't
Speaker 1: gotten solved. It's just like heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: It probably won't ever because it was just the investigation
Speaker 2: was too fucking shit showed.
Speaker 1: I know, like at this like it just could have
Speaker 1: been handled so differently and the outcome probably would have
Speaker 1: been so different.
Speaker 2: They lost way too much evidence as far as I'm concerned. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm curious though if there was more staff at that house.
Speaker 1: I know, I with all the research that I went through,
Speaker 1: those that was the only ones that were listed.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there was more have.
Speaker 1: To have been like they would have want they would
Speaker 1: have needed house cleaners and ship and stuff, right or
Speaker 1: sure that's huge house.
Speaker 2: But with more staff, I guarantee that they were looked
Speaker 2: at as well.
Speaker 1: And John Ramsey had also had children from a previous
Speaker 1: marriage and they were looked at you so like so
Speaker 1: many people were looked at but just nothing has. But
Speaker 1: I also just like question like how accurate was that
Speaker 1: DNA collected and stuff? But then they missed on so
Speaker 1: many fingerprints and everything too. I think like unless it
Speaker 1: was done by someone in the house.
Speaker 2: But my bed is someone in the house, But I'm
Speaker 2: not sold it was on the family. That's why I
Speaker 2: want to look at potentially who else is in that house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even the fact on.
Speaker 2: That there was a broken window, no footprints outside, that
Speaker 2: right there says it's staged so stage by who needs
Speaker 2: to stage it?
Speaker 1: Because it does all lost so many aspects If it
Speaker 1: looked very staged.
Speaker 2: The only time you're going to need to break a
Speaker 2: window and not use it is if you are in
Speaker 2: the house. If you need to get in the house,
Speaker 2: you're going to break a window and use it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that right there, and knowledge of the one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighteen thousand is someone in the house?
Speaker 1: Well, and then the fact that they that ransom letter
Speaker 1: two used on the own stationary and.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, take take all that time, and it took
Speaker 2: that long, someone outside is going to write it and
Speaker 2: bring it in.
Speaker 1: Like I feel so terrible saying this, but I feel
Speaker 1: like John Binney might have known who did this to her?
Speaker 2: Oh probably right, Yeah, which is it most likely felt
Speaker 2: very comfortable. Otherwise you would have heard many more screams potentially.
Speaker 1: And yeah, because like they the neighbors even said that
Speaker 1: they listened after, right, But it was just like one
Speaker 1: single scream.
Speaker 2: So most likely is my theory is it was going
Speaker 2: to it would probably be a single hit, which would
Speaker 2: give the scream, and then after that it would have
Speaker 2: been strangulation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean both of both of them alone
Speaker 1: could have killed her really, right, Like, yeah, the hit
Speaker 1: and the strangulation. It was both like brutal.
Speaker 2: So so on that note, I like, how, like what
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, I'm like, we've done wage murders and
Speaker 2: I just need to not do this because I'm like
Speaker 2: fucking getting bogged down. And then you're like, guess what
Speaker 2: the worst one yet? Well, not the worst one yet,
Speaker 2: but one that's really going to weigh on.
Speaker 1: Me, And I actually forgot all about that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: oh and we should have freaking warmed at the meeting
Speaker 1: that a child was involved in this. But it's basically
Speaker 1: I'll make sure it's in the description and people probably
Speaker 1: read that before there is a warning. There is guy dark.
Speaker 1: It's no surprise here.
Speaker 2: It's it's a true crime podcast. I'm I mean, I
Speaker 2: understand if you are specifically triggered by certain things, but
Speaker 2: it's a true crime podcast. We do have a warning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're adults.
Speaker 2: We're all adults here.
Speaker 1: Ye, so there you go. That is the John Bennet
Speaker 1: Ramsey murder case and it's shit. Yeah that note, Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.
Speaker 2: Haven't very merry Christmas?
Speaker 1: Well we'll talk to you before Christmas. And well, on
Speaker 1: a happier note, our merch is now available, so that's
Speaker 1: super cool if you want to check it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's linked down below along with our social media.
Speaker 1: Yes, we'll put something on Instagram too about it.
Speaker 2: And Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh I always forget about Facebook. I'm so sorry Facebook. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, well, thank you and stay wicked