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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to our coverage about the murder of Rondick Hinson.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's jump back right into this case. But of course,

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<v Speaker 1>in the original investigation, Greg was never considered to be

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<v Speaker 1>a suspect because his parents said he was home all night.

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<v Speaker 1>He was here, he couldn't have been out. But of

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<v Speaker 1>course you have to take it with a grain of

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<v Speaker 1>salt when people's own family members offered them an alibi.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't really think you can really rely too

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<v Speaker 2>strongly on familial alibis because parents are willing to lie

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<v Speaker 2>for their children. It just comes down to it. I

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<v Speaker 2>think siblings are willing to lie. He's actually parents. They

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<v Speaker 2>always want to protect their children, and they're not only

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<v Speaker 2>protecting their children when they do that, they're also protecting

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<v Speaker 2>the integrity of their own names. And I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>that we can underestimate how important that is. Nobody wants

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<v Speaker 2>the stain of having your child be a murderer, So

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<v Speaker 2>I can understand why parents will do things like this.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw this in the Gabby Patito case with Brian

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<v Speaker 2>Laundry's parents.

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<v Speaker 1>It's laundry, right, yeah, laundry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we saw it with his parents. The lengths that

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<v Speaker 2>they were willing to go to protect him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are some examples where

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<v Speaker 1>parents are willing to do the right thing. But also,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles McDowell was a pastor at the local church, and

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<v Speaker 1>he sounded like someone who was very concerned about his

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<v Speaker 1>family's image and maintaining being a pillar of the community.

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<v Speaker 1>So he would fit the profile of someone who would

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<v Speaker 1>cover for his son if he had killed someone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not a very Christian thing, no.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely not. But there would be another odd incident at

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<v Speaker 1>around seven am later that morning, two of Ronda and

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<v Speaker 1>Greg's best friends were another couple. Their names were Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Turner and Jill Turner, even though their families both seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to have the same last name, but it's just a coincidence.

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<v Speaker 1>They weren't related to each other, but they heard about

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<v Speaker 1>Ronda's death, so they decided to pay a visit to

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<v Speaker 1>the McDowell residents in order to offer their condolences. But

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<v Speaker 1>when they arrived, Greg and Betty were there, but Charles

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<v Speaker 1>was not, and since he was a private pilot with

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<v Speaker 1>his own plane, Betty explained that he had left on

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<v Speaker 1>a flight to South Carolina in order to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>some relatives who would be visiting the family for the

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas holidays. When the Hints were told about this, they

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<v Speaker 1>found it very weird because a couple of days earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>Greg had asked them if they could spend the holidays

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<v Speaker 1>at their house because his parents were planning to travel

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<v Speaker 1>to South Carolina and spend Christmas with their relatives and

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't really want to do that. But now, for

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<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, Charles had changed his plans and was going

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<v Speaker 1>to pick up these relatives and bring them back to

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<v Speaker 1>his place, even though this was only about six hours

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<v Speaker 1>after finding out that his son's girlfriend had been murdered.

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<v Speaker 1>Flight logs did confirm that Charles's plane did take off,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't think it's ever been officially confirmed if

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<v Speaker 1>he brought back any relatives. And of course there has

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<v Speaker 1>been speculation that he might have been using this opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to dispose of evidence because he was a known hunter,

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<v Speaker 1>so Greg would have had access to a rifle if

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<v Speaker 1>it was in fact the murder weapon. And there would

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<v Speaker 1>be another unusual situation when Mark and Jill were leaving

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<v Speaker 1>and driving out of the driveway when Greg suddenly came

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<v Speaker 1>out and waved them down, and after Mark stopped the car,

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<v Speaker 1>Greg handed him a box of condoms and said, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want them to find out we were having sex. What?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like I cant understand, Like this is a

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<v Speaker 1>Christian family who may have disapproved of premarital sex, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's like most people aren't going to be thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>something like this, hiding condoms after finding out that your

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<v Speaker 1>girlfriend has been murdered.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so weird. But I've got to think, if Charles

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<v Speaker 2>is a pastor at a church, does he really need

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<v Speaker 2>to take his lane to dispose of evidence? Couldn't you

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<v Speaker 2>hide evidence on church property? Like what is the probability

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going to be able to get a search

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<v Speaker 2>warrant for church property?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I thought that is kind of an exaggeration that

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<v Speaker 1>if he needed to dispose of evidence, you could just

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<v Speaker 1>drive somewhere and dispose of it. You don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>take a plane out there. But still we've never even

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<v Speaker 1>found out if he was telling the truth about bringing

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<v Speaker 1>relatives back to the house and picking them up, So

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<v Speaker 1>it just seems odd that he would take this impromptu

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<v Speaker 1>plane ride so soon after finding out what happened to

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<v Speaker 1>his son's girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's absolutely bizarre, But I could see a

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<v Speaker 2>scenario where they were originally planning to go to South

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<v Speaker 2>Carolina for the holidays, but then given everything that happened,

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<v Speaker 2>they were like, Okay, we're going to talk to the

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<v Speaker 2>family and see if they're now willing to come up

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<v Speaker 2>here and be around us during this very difficult time.

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<v Speaker 2>But the one thing that I've got a difficult time

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<v Speaker 2>reconciling is the time frame. Would you really go six

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<v Speaker 2>hours after finding this out that Ronda was dead?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because supposedly Charles had been woken up at like

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<v Speaker 1>quarter after two in the morning, so he obviously didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get much sleep. So would you instantly feel gung ho

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<v Speaker 1>to start flying a plane after you must be tired

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<v Speaker 1>just to go pick up the relatives, Like why not

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<v Speaker 1>have a nap or something and then go later in

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<v Speaker 1>the day if you really wanted to bring your relatives

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<v Speaker 1>back there. So my next story is going to paint

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<v Speaker 1>the mcdowells in an even more unflattering light. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is particularly weird. But Ronda's funeral service was held on

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Day at the same church where Charles was the pastor,

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<v Speaker 1>so he wound up giving the eulogy. But the Hintsons

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<v Speaker 1>thought that it was very weird because he barely seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to be mentioning Ronda at all, didn't really want to

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<v Speaker 1>say a lot of good things about her, even though

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<v Speaker 1>she was a victim, and he stated that he barely

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<v Speaker 1>knew Ronda, even though she had been his son's girlfriend

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<v Speaker 1>for the past two years. And then he flat out

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<v Speaker 1>shocked everyone by saying, quote, I don't know if Ronda

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<v Speaker 1>went to Hell or not. And of course this enraged

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<v Speaker 1>the Hinsons, and then after the service, Judy decided to

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<v Speaker 1>confront him and say, why would you say something like that?

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<v Speaker 1>And he told her that since Ronda wasn't affiliated with

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<v Speaker 1>this particular church, he couldn't know for certain where she was.

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<v Speaker 1>And he then stated, quote, there was a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>good people in Hell. Just because a person is good

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean they are not in Hell. I know a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of good people who have gone to Hell.

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<v Speaker 2>End quote excuse you, Like, how dare you say that

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<v Speaker 2>about this deceased nineteen year old girl. Ronda did absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>nothing wrong to have you say that she could possibly

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<v Speaker 2>be in hell. And then he qualifies his statements that

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<v Speaker 2>there's lots of good people in Hell. Like her parents

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to hear that what an absolute pos.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just so bizarre to me. I love to

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<v Speaker 1>think I know a lot of good people who have

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<v Speaker 1>gone to Hell. How could you possibly know that, to

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<v Speaker 1>let you been there? How could you know where these

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<v Speaker 1>people have gone after they died. But it just seemed

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<v Speaker 1>like there's some major projection here. And some people have

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<v Speaker 1>theorized that maybe he blamed Ronda for causing his son

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<v Speaker 1>to kill her or something like that, saying that she

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<v Speaker 1>did something bad to him so that Greg had no

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<v Speaker 1>choice but to kill her, And in order to project

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<v Speaker 1>he started saying disparaging things about at her own funeral

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<v Speaker 1>service with her family and attendance, and trying to say

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<v Speaker 1>that she went to hell, even though she's an innocent

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen year old girl who did nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we see something similar in uh. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's the case of Djunko Feruda in Japan. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was like the Hello Kitty murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I know that one.

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<v Speaker 2>It is absolutely vile what they did to this young girl.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the end, after she's deceased and she's buried,

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<v Speaker 2>the mothers of some of these boys were just they

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<v Speaker 2>were so angry about what happened that they would go,

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<v Speaker 2>and they would desecrate her grave on multiple occasions, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, why don't you put the blame where it belongs,

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<v Speaker 2>squarely on the shoulders of your son. Why are you

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<v Speaker 2>blaming this poor girl who was tortured for like a

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<v Speaker 2>month or something like that. I can't remember all the

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<v Speaker 2>details of the case, but it was horrific, and so

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<v Speaker 2>it's very possible that we're seeing something similar.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely heard about that case where they pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much blamed the murder victim who was tortured for ruining

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<v Speaker 1>their son's life, even though they were directly responsible for

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<v Speaker 1>what happened. And that just may be Charles's mentality where

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<v Speaker 1>even though his son killed someone, he's doing nothing but

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<v Speaker 1>blaming the victim. And to make this situation even more odd,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles resigned as the pastor at the church only two

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<v Speaker 1>days after the funeral, and he never gave an official reason.

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<v Speaker 1>But as the years went on, it would turn out,

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<v Speaker 1>surprise surprise, that Charles had been conducting an extramaral affair

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<v Speaker 1>with one of the parishioners, and he eventually got divorced

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<v Speaker 1>from Betty after thirty years of marriage, which says a

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<v Speaker 1>lot about his character. And the last time that the

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<v Speaker 1>Hinson's ever communicated with Charles was about two years after

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<v Speaker 1>Ronda's murder, where he stopped by their house and had

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<v Speaker 1>a conversation where he made yet another odd remark, stating, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>the case will never be solved, nothing will help Ronda

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<v Speaker 1>now and other people should not be hurt because of

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<v Speaker 1>this end quote.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my dear lord, what is up with this man?

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<v Speaker 2>Somebody stop him from speaking because nothing good comes of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just gives these vague, these vague statements, but

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<v Speaker 2>yet they're very telling. How do you know this for

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<v Speaker 2>a fact? You are stating that nobody will find out?

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<v Speaker 2>How do you know you would know if you would

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<v Speaker 2>dispose of evidence and you had seem to it that

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<v Speaker 2>there is no way that anything could be tied to

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<v Speaker 2>potentially your son. Otherwise, if he had nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with it, and this was somebody else, or this was

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<v Speaker 2>a complete accident, why are you showing up on their

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<v Speaker 2>doorstep and showing concern for the potential that it could

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<v Speaker 2>hurt somebody aka his son, whoever would be charged with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So it feels to me that he's got some inside

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge or some involvement in what happened. To Ronda.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just very, very self absorbed because ordinarily, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you want the person who committed a crime to be

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<v Speaker 1>hurt because they should be punished for what they did.

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<v Speaker 1>So why would he be saying something like that unless

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<v Speaker 1>he felt that his son and his family name would

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<v Speaker 1>be hurt if this case was ever solved. So now

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<v Speaker 1>let's get back to the whole Ronda taking showers thing

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<v Speaker 1>and the speculation that she was a victim of sexual assault,

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<v Speaker 1>because it turned out that prior to her death, Ronda

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<v Speaker 1>told her best friend Jill, as well as one of

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<v Speaker 1>her cousins, that Reverend McDowell had made any appropriate advances

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<v Speaker 1>toward her. She described an incident where she was exiting

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<v Speaker 1>the bathroom at the residence and Charles decided to like

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<v Speaker 1>walk up close to her and corner in the hallway

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of violate her space, even though he did

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<v Speaker 1>not actually physically touch her. But there was another time

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<v Speaker 1>where Ronda went out to a restaurant with the McDowell

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<v Speaker 1>family and she said that Charles sat beside her and

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<v Speaker 1>placed his hand on her knee while they were eating.

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<v Speaker 1>And while she never actually described being raped or sexual

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<v Speaker 1>assaulted or any the situations escalating after that. That's still

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<v Speaker 1>troubling behavior, so would not surprised me. Possibly if Charles

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<v Speaker 1>at one point did a lot more than just put

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<v Speaker 1>his hand on her knee, but she was reluctant to

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<v Speaker 1>say anything, and that could have been the reason that

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<v Speaker 1>she just decided to get up in the night and

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<v Speaker 1>start having these constant showers.

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<v Speaker 2>It's possible that that's all that happened. It's also possible

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<v Speaker 2>that more happened, because when one is sexually assaulted, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of shame that's attached to that, and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of times the victim will blame themselves for the

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<v Speaker 2>actions of this other person, although incorrect, it's never their fault,

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<v Speaker 2>but I know from personal experience you can feel that way.

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<v Speaker 2>And so to then share more information and to go, God,

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<v Speaker 2>I put myself in this situation and this ended up happening,

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<v Speaker 2>and now I just feel too ashamed to even like

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<v Speaker 2>articulate it, because that makes it real, It makes it

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<v Speaker 2>like a tangible thing once you say it out loud

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<v Speaker 2>to somebody else. And then also to admit that I

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<v Speaker 2>was in this position, like I saw the potential that

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<v Speaker 2>this could happen, yet I still ended up in this position,

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<v Speaker 2>and this happened to me, And it's just so typical

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<v Speaker 2>for a victim to blame themselves when it's obvious that

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<v Speaker 2>this is Charle. She's a teenage girl and the girlfriend

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<v Speaker 2>of his son, and he's making these advances and he's

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<v Speaker 2>just a disgusting human being. And I truly hope that

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<v Speaker 2>nothing more happened to Ronda than what she described, But

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<v Speaker 2>we're just never going to know the truth unless Charles

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<v Speaker 2>is one who's going to come forward and admit that

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<v Speaker 2>he did something to her, and we know that's not

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<v Speaker 2>going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely not. But the fact that he lost his marriage

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<v Speaker 1>because he had an affair with one of his parishioners

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<v Speaker 1>shows that he is capable of stuff like that. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course it adds more context to the conversations that

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<v Speaker 1>she had with her father, saying that I have something

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<v Speaker 1>bad to tell you and you're not going to like it,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's probably feeling secret shame, like maybe she wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to tell him about the incident where he put his

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<v Speaker 1>hand on her leg, or maybe tell him about something worse,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's she's thinking to herself, well, this is my

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<v Speaker 1>boyfriend's father. He's also a pastor and a pillar of

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<v Speaker 1>the community. So no matter what I say, even though

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<v Speaker 1>it's all his fault, a lot of people are probably

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<v Speaker 1>going to blame me for it, for leading him on

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that. And she probably felt a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of sa secret shame, and that's why she wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>remain silent.

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<v Speaker 2>Refresh my memory. What the exact question was that she

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<v Speaker 2>asked about a married man, Well, I was just.

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<v Speaker 1>Going to bring that up, and she asked her mother,

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<v Speaker 1>is it okay to date a married man? And of

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<v Speaker 1>course her mother said, no, it's never okay. It could

265
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<v Speaker 1>hurt a lot of people, and that's when she dropped

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<v Speaker 1>the subject. And yes, there has been speculation that she

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<v Speaker 1>may have been referring to something that was going on

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<v Speaker 1>with her and Charles, but it's also possible that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a red herring because apparently a couple of years afterwards,

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<v Speaker 1>one of Ronda's co workers admitted to the family that

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<v Speaker 1>she had been having an affair with another married man

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<v Speaker 1>at her workplace and had told Ronda about it. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's very possible that Ronda was just asking questions because

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<v Speaker 1>of something her friend did, and it wasn't something that

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<v Speaker 1>was going on in her own personal life.

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<v Speaker 2>That seems more likely to me personally, just because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't see any world in where Ronda would be into

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of having an affair with Charles, because she

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00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:01.039
<v Speaker 2>seemed to be so off put by him cornering her

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<v Speaker 2>and then invading her space, and then again putting his

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00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.679
<v Speaker 2>hand on her leg in a way that she felt uncomfortable.

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<v Speaker 2>That doesn't align to me with somebody that is thinking

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00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:15.080
<v Speaker 2>about potentially having an affair with this man. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. It does sound more like a

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<v Speaker 2>red herring.

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00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I think so too. I don't think she would ever

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00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.200
<v Speaker 1>want a consensual affair with him because she always was

288
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>repulsed by him, so if anything happened, it was probably

289
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>because he forced himself on her. And while we're on

290
00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the subject of red herrings, it's possible that the eyewitness

291
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:35.399
<v Speaker 1>account from Reggie Smart, the truck driver who said that

292
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.120
<v Speaker 1>he saw a man pulling Ronda's body out of the car,

293
00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:42.360
<v Speaker 1>might be nothing more than a red herring, because it's

294
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of I always assumed that this was the person

295
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.200
<v Speaker 1>who killed her, But it turned out that the people

296
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.919
<v Speaker 1>who reported the discovery of Ronda's car were a pair

297
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.399
<v Speaker 1>of men named Tim Ponce and Mark Nickel, and they

298
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.080
<v Speaker 1>claimed that sometime after one am, they were driving down

299
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Mineral Springs Mountain Road and decided to pull over when

300
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.879
<v Speaker 1>they noticed Ronda's datson in the ditch, and when they

301
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.799
<v Speaker 1>watched for a closer look. Oddly, they said that even

302
00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.360
<v Speaker 1>though they saw a bullet hole and they saw some blood,

303
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>they claimed they did not see Ronda's body lying on

304
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.639
<v Speaker 1>the ground, which seems odd like why wouldn't her body

305
00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:15.919
<v Speaker 1>be there? But their story was corroborated by three other

306
00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:19.039
<v Speaker 1>eyewitnesses in a blue Toyota pickup truck who were driving

307
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.240
<v Speaker 1>through the area and pulled over to check what was

308
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.240
<v Speaker 1>going on, and that's when Ponds and Nicol said that

309
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.919
<v Speaker 1>they were going to the police, so the two parties

310
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:29.960
<v Speaker 1>went their separate ways. Ponce and Nickel went into town

311
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and managed to flag down a patrol officer and lead

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00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.799
<v Speaker 1>them back to the scene, and by the time the

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00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>officer arrived, he was able to confirm that yes, Ronda's

314
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:40.519
<v Speaker 1>body was on the ground and on the surface. The

315
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>whole situation doesn't seem to make a lot of sense

316
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.679
<v Speaker 1>because I don't think like someone would kill Ronda, move

317
00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:49.519
<v Speaker 1>her body away and then put it back by the

318
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>time the police went there. But what's interesting is that

319
00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Ponce and Nickel actually drove a dark transam which marched

320
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.120
<v Speaker 1>the description of the vehicle that Reggie Smarts. So it

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00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:03.960
<v Speaker 1>seems to me that the man who pulled her body

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00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.799
<v Speaker 1>out was probably Ponds or Nickel, but for reasons unknown,

323
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.840
<v Speaker 1>decided not to tell that story to the police. They

324
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:13.279
<v Speaker 1>just said that they discovered the car and did not

325
00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:15.679
<v Speaker 1>handle the body. And I don't know why they would

326
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>do that. Maybe they thought that they would be incriminated

327
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:20.720
<v Speaker 1>in the crime if they admitted to touching the body.

328
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.120
<v Speaker 1>But when you look at the timeline and you look

329
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.919
<v Speaker 1>at like the description that Reggie Smart provided, the only

330
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.799
<v Speaker 1>explanation that makes sense because he had seen a gray

331
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:33.120
<v Speaker 1>car driving away from the scene which likely had Ronda's killer,

332
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.480
<v Speaker 1>is that these two guys, these bystanders, were the one

333
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.399
<v Speaker 1>who moved her body and then stayed silent about it

334
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.279
<v Speaker 1>and may have compromised the investigation because I have a

335
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>feeling that if they checked the DNA found on Ronda's weather,

336
00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.799
<v Speaker 1>it might wind up matching Tim Ponce or Mark nicchol.

337
00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I agree with you. That sounds like

338
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the most likely scenario. Otherwise, how else did her body

339
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.200
<v Speaker 2>get out there? And maybe they were just thinking like, oh,

340
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be tied to this, and you're right.

341
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.840
<v Speaker 2>If they run the DNA and it matches one of them,

342
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.559
<v Speaker 2>it just if they would have explained a way why

343
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.039
<v Speaker 2>their DNA was there in the first place. And I mean,

344
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>we can read between the lines and say they were

345
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.519
<v Speaker 2>likely scared and so they didn't want to be involved

346
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.720
<v Speaker 2>in this any more than they needed to be, and

347
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.119
<v Speaker 2>so they weren't thinking in nineteen eighty one that they

348
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>could be incriminating the scene with touch DNA, because it

349
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.759
<v Speaker 2>literally wasn't the thing exactly.

350
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.200
<v Speaker 1>They would have been thinking about that. But I can

351
00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.319
<v Speaker 1>only imagine what they might have felt when they watched

352
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.279
<v Speaker 1>the Unsolved Mystery segment years earlier, because that lead with

353
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the guy pulling Randa's body out of the car was

354
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.720
<v Speaker 1>like the biggest development. They were hoping to identify this

355
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.319
<v Speaker 1>man because they felt he was Ronda's killer. So I

356
00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:43.640
<v Speaker 1>always wonder if they watched that thinking that, ooh, we

357
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:45.519
<v Speaker 1>were the ones who did that, and we did kill her.

358
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<v Speaker 1>But if anyone finds out, we're going to get into

359
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.359
<v Speaker 1>a lot of trouble. So we're gonna stay quiet about it.

360
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<v Speaker 2>If that is the case, they probably went through a

361
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.759
<v Speaker 2>bunch of years where they had an incredible amount of

362
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.440
<v Speaker 2>anxiety and they were constantly worried that they were going

363
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:03.119
<v Speaker 2>to get caught, and then eventually it probably slowly, year

364
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.039
<v Speaker 2>by year dissipates a little bit, and then eventually they're thinking, Okay, look,

365
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>we got away with the Scott free nothing's happened. But

366
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.640
<v Speaker 2>if they were to come forward now and give that

367
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.559
<v Speaker 2>context that yes, this happened, this is why we didn't

368
00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.279
<v Speaker 2>disclose it. And if you run that DNA, it's very

369
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.000
<v Speaker 2>possible it could be either of our DNA, it would

370
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.680
<v Speaker 2>be incredibly helpful in the case.

371
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.799
<v Speaker 1>I think so. And Pont and Nickel were never mentioned

372
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.440
<v Speaker 1>in any public accounts of the case until Larry Griffin

373
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.400
<v Speaker 1>wrote that series of articles starting in twenty nineteen. And

374
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<v Speaker 1>when I read that, I was like, ah, yeah, that

375
00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.240
<v Speaker 1>was probably them. But I have no idea if these

376
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:40.279
<v Speaker 1>two men are still alive, and I'm thinking that they

377
00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:42.640
<v Speaker 1>should come forward, given that their names are already out

378
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.559
<v Speaker 1>there and people know that they probably moved the body.

379
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:48.799
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, the main reason I think it's a red

380
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>herring is that l Azure. Recall, Reggie Smart said that

381
00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.039
<v Speaker 1>before he saw this guy, he had seen what he

382
00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.319
<v Speaker 1>described as a blue Chevelle driving away from the scene,

383
00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:01.000
<v Speaker 1>and about a half hour before that, other witnesses had

384
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.440
<v Speaker 1>reported seeing a car matching that description parked under the

385
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.400
<v Speaker 1>overpass with two men sitting inside. So it seems very

386
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.160
<v Speaker 1>likely that that car was involved in Ronda's murder. And

387
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.400
<v Speaker 1>it turned out that Greg was driving a blue nineteen

388
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.359
<v Speaker 1>seventy six Chevy Nova at the time, which was registered

389
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.079
<v Speaker 1>to his father. And even though Smart thought that it

390
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.839
<v Speaker 1>looked more like a gray Chevelle, Chevelle's looked similar enough

391
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.720
<v Speaker 1>to Nova's that he easily could have mistaken them, and

392
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.359
<v Speaker 1>because there were poor lighting conditions, he could have also

393
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>mistakenly believed that the blue paint was gray. And most importantly,

394
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>as you recall, Smart described the front of the vehicle

395
00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.400
<v Speaker 1>as looking messed up, and the McDowell's family Nova did

396
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.640
<v Speaker 1>have damage to the front end at that time, So

397
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.759
<v Speaker 1>in retrospect, it seems very likely that that was the

398
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.559
<v Speaker 1>McDowell's car speeding away from the scene right after Ronda's murder.

399
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that does seem to be pretty good evidence that

400
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.519
<v Speaker 2>it was the McDowell's car, and honestly, to the surprise

401
00:19:57.559 --> 00:19:59.839
<v Speaker 2>of no one, the fact that their car was a

402
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.440
<v Speaker 2>the scene. Who was present in that car? Do you

403
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.279
<v Speaker 2>think that it was potentially junior and senior, like if

404
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.200
<v Speaker 2>it was Charles, Charles ng Greg.

405
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.160
<v Speaker 1>People have pushed that forward as an idea. But what's

406
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.839
<v Speaker 1>crazy is that when we discover Ronda's vehicle, the driver's

407
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.440
<v Speaker 1>side window was rolled down, and because it was a

408
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.680
<v Speaker 1>very cold night, they don't think that she would have

409
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:23.920
<v Speaker 1>rolled it down just to drive home. So they've always

410
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.400
<v Speaker 1>suspected that she did stop and talked to someone, and

411
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:29.640
<v Speaker 1>they figured that she might have done that for Greg,

412
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.640
<v Speaker 1>but they thought that if Charles had been at the

413
00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:34.319
<v Speaker 1>scene with them, she probably wouldn't have stopped for him

414
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:36.519
<v Speaker 1>because she was afraid of him, and I think she

415
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.640
<v Speaker 1>would have considered it be a red flag. Charles and

416
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Greg were at the scene together. But in a couple moments,

417
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to bring up another potential suspect who could

418
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.119
<v Speaker 1>have been the second man inside the vehicle. So another

419
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.759
<v Speaker 1>thing that looked incriminating from the McDowell's is that when

420
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Ronda's vehicle was discovered, there were three items in the

421
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.799
<v Speaker 1>back that her family swears were not there when she

422
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.279
<v Speaker 1>originally left the house for the Christmas party. One of

423
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.839
<v Speaker 1>them was a letter jacket from Eastbrook High School, which

424
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.400
<v Speaker 1>belonged to her. Another one was a hooded gray sweat

425
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.480
<v Speaker 1>jacket which also belonged to her, and also a stuffed

426
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:10.880
<v Speaker 1>pink snake which Ronda had won as a prize for

427
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.319
<v Speaker 1>Greg during a trip to Myrtle Beach that they had

428
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:16.799
<v Speaker 1>taken during the summer of nineteen eighty one. So before

429
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.160
<v Speaker 1>she left for the Christmas party, Ronda had asked her

430
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.319
<v Speaker 1>father if he could drive the car up to the

431
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:24.039
<v Speaker 1>front door for her because she wanted to avoid getting

432
00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.640
<v Speaker 1>her shoes dirty, and Bobby would say that he was

433
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.079
<v Speaker 1>absolutely certain that those two jackets and the pinak snake

434
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.160
<v Speaker 1>were not in the back seat. Well, he was in

435
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:35.559
<v Speaker 1>the car, and as you recall, Ronda drove her friend

436
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Sheery Pittman home from the Christmas party, and Shery would

437
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.400
<v Speaker 1>also say, I don't recall seeing those items in the

438
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.400
<v Speaker 1>back seat when I was dropped off. So it seems

439
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.279
<v Speaker 1>that somehow, within the next thirty to forty minutes after

440
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Ronda left Sherry's house, those items wound up on the

441
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.359
<v Speaker 1>back seat by the time her car was discovered in

442
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:53.799
<v Speaker 1>the ditch.

443
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.400
<v Speaker 2>That is so weird, isn't it. I guess if you

444
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.559
<v Speaker 2>couple it with the fact that the windows rolled down,

445
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.759
<v Speaker 2>there is a very high probability that she bumped into

446
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>somebody she had to otherwise, how did those items get

447
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.039
<v Speaker 2>there and why would her window be rolled down?

448
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it totally fits the timeline because it did turn

449
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.000
<v Speaker 1>out that a few days prior to her death, Ronda

450
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.279
<v Speaker 1>had left her school letter jacket at Greg's residence, and

451
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:23.200
<v Speaker 1>as far as anyone knew, she didn't get it back

452
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:26.079
<v Speaker 1>because when Ron left for work on the morning of

453
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:28.920
<v Speaker 1>December the twenty second, she asked if she could borrow

454
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.119
<v Speaker 1>her brother Robbie's jacket because she did not have her own.

455
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>So this could be a thing where Greg pulled her

456
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.640
<v Speaker 1>over because this is a route she always drove home,

457
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:39.440
<v Speaker 1>so he would have known she would have been there,

458
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:41.640
<v Speaker 1>so he could have flagged her down and says, I'm

459
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.599
<v Speaker 1>going to give you back the jacket, and that's what

460
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:47.079
<v Speaker 1>convinced Ron to pull over and roll down the window. Though,

461
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.559
<v Speaker 1>the presidence of the snake is a weird thing, because

462
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:53.200
<v Speaker 1>why would Greg bring like this pink snake to like

463
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the side of the road to give to her in

464
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.039
<v Speaker 1>the middle of the night, unless it was maybe something saying, oh,

465
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:01.079
<v Speaker 1>remember when we went to Myrtle Beach this and won

466
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.039
<v Speaker 1>me like a pet snake that shows much better times

467
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and cho when our relationship was in a good place.

468
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it would have been a manipulative thing to convince

469
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.519
<v Speaker 1>ron and not to break up with him or something

470
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.039
<v Speaker 1>like that. But whatever happened, I know that both Bobby

471
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.519
<v Speaker 1>and Sherry were certain that that pink snake was not

472
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.839
<v Speaker 1>in the car earlier that night, and somehow showed up

473
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.200
<v Speaker 1>there before she was killed.

474
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of any other explanation than what you

475
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.559
<v Speaker 2>just said. If it was something that was going to

476
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:29.920
<v Speaker 2>be used to try to either to aid drop her

477
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.359
<v Speaker 2>guards so she's relaxed and he can then take a

478
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.640
<v Speaker 2>shot at her, or be try to get her back

479
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.720
<v Speaker 2>in some way, And maybe he felt as though he

480
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.799
<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to get her back, or his actions or

481
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.359
<v Speaker 2>his efforts weren't going to be rewarded in the way

482
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:50.640
<v Speaker 2>that he was hoping, so then he basically enacted his

483
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 2>contingency plan, which was to take a shot at her,

484
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.960
<v Speaker 2>either to scare her or to harm her.

485
00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:00.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, possibly, and I don't know if he was planning

486
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:02.319
<v Speaker 1>to kill her, Like maybe he thought he was only

487
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:03.759
<v Speaker 1>going to scare her. But the fact that he had

488
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.400
<v Speaker 1>a hunting rifle with him to begin with is obviously

489
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 1>a major red flag because if this was just a

490
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.200
<v Speaker 1>meetup where you wanted to speak with her or just

491
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.400
<v Speaker 1>flag her down to return her jacket, you would not

492
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:15.640
<v Speaker 1>need to bring a rifle to the scene unless you

493
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 1>were planning it to do something. And maybe he thought, well,

494
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:21.400
<v Speaker 1>we're going to reconcile or something like that. But maybe

495
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:23.759
<v Speaker 1>at that moment she told Greg that she was going

496
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.160
<v Speaker 1>to break up with him and that's when he lost it.

497
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.759
<v Speaker 1>And they figured that the rifle was probably fired while

498
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Ronda was driving away, so it could have just been

499
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 1>like maybe he was planning to fire a warning shot

500
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and just never dreamed that it would just go right

501
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:38.759
<v Speaker 1>through the trunk and through the back seat in the

502
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:41.440
<v Speaker 1>front seat and pierce her right through the heart.

503
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sounds like he maybe was just trying to

504
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 2>scare her, because I think if he was trying to

505
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.319
<v Speaker 2>kill her, you would take more than one shot.

506
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.480
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm thinking as well. Yeah, I don't think

507
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.920
<v Speaker 1>it was premeditated But the thing that really really confuses

508
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.759
<v Speaker 1>me is the presence of the second jacket in Ronda's

509
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>back seat, which was a hooded gray sweatsh jacket. It

510
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:04.079
<v Speaker 1>turned out that she had gone Christmas shopping with Mark Turner,

511
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.680
<v Speaker 1>who was the boyfriend of her best friend Jill, and

512
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:10.160
<v Speaker 1>wound up leaving her hooded sweat jacket in his car.

513
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:13.599
<v Speaker 1>And I know that Mark and Jill had spent the

514
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.759
<v Speaker 1>evening of December the twenty second hanging out together before

515
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Mark drove Jill back to her residence and dropped her

516
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.799
<v Speaker 1>off at around twelve twenty five am on December the

517
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty third, which was about thirty to forty minutes before

518
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>Ronda's body was found. But what's weird is that Jill

519
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.519
<v Speaker 1>claimed that when she exited Mark's car, she noticed Ronda's

520
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.519
<v Speaker 1>sweat jacket in the back seat, and she asked Mark

521
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:37.279
<v Speaker 1>if she could take it and give it back to

522
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Ronda at a later time, but Mark said no, it's okay.

523
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give it to Greg and then he

524
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.200
<v Speaker 1>can return it to Ronda. And then Mark drove away.

525
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:47.599
<v Speaker 1>And this was only about a half mile from the

526
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.559
<v Speaker 1>spot where Ronda was killed, and Mark probably would have

527
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 1>been heading in that direction when he was heading home,

528
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:56.720
<v Speaker 1>And of course they questioned him afterwards, saying that do

529
00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 1>you recall how the sweat jacket that was in your

530
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.200
<v Speaker 1>car in Ronda's car within the next half hour, And

531
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Mark said, honestly, I have no recollection of ever giving

532
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.480
<v Speaker 1>the jacket back to her. And he says, but I

533
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 1>had been suffering from a back injury at the time,

534
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 1>and I've been taking a lot of pain medications, so

535
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 1>that whole era is a blur, So I honestly don't

536
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.839
<v Speaker 1>remember what happened. And so that also looks pretty suspicious.

537
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:24.799
<v Speaker 2>That's majorly suspicious. And how long after Bronda's murder did

538
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:26.480
<v Speaker 2>they question him.

539
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.440
<v Speaker 1>I think it was like maybe a couple weeks or so,

540
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.480
<v Speaker 1>but not long afterwards. And I'm thinking, though, even if

541
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 1>you were on a lot of pain pills at the time,

542
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.720
<v Speaker 1>I think the night when your girlfriend's best friend when

543
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.640
<v Speaker 1>murdered would be a memorable enough event that you would

544
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.279
<v Speaker 1>remember a lot of the events that happened. And remember

545
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 1>if you had given the jacket back to Ronda or Greg.

546
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.400
<v Speaker 2>And if you were still messed up on pain pills,

547
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.799
<v Speaker 2>why are you awake at that time? They're a downer,

548
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.519
<v Speaker 2>not an upper. So you're still awake and you're cognizant

549
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Speaker 2>enough to be driving around. Sure, you could be really

550
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:00.839
<v Speaker 2>messed up, but I would think there's a probability that

551
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.559
<v Speaker 2>she would remember that. It's not like he's being asked

552
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>three years later exactly.

553
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, And as you recall, there were a number

554
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.440
<v Speaker 1>of witnesses who saw it, like the blue Chevy underneath

555
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.720
<v Speaker 1>the overpass, and they said that they saw two men

556
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:17.799
<v Speaker 1>in there, not just one. So I think it's very

557
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:20.839
<v Speaker 1>possible that Mark was heading in that direction he noticed

558
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Greg park there and decided to stop by and give

559
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 1>him the jacket, and that maybe Greg wound up giving

560
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.599
<v Speaker 1>the gray jacket Toronda when she stopped by a short

561
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>time later. But in Mark's defense, he was driving a

562
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.720
<v Speaker 1>gold nineteen seventy seven Buick Regel at that time, and

563
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.559
<v Speaker 1>even though a bunch of eye witnesses reported a number

564
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:42.400
<v Speaker 1>of different vehicles near the scene, no one has ever

565
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:46.640
<v Speaker 1>seen reported seeing a gold Buick Regal anywhere in the vicinity,

566
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.039
<v Speaker 1>so Mark cannot be placed there. But I'm thinking to myself,

567
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.400
<v Speaker 1>if this was just an inocentt case where Mark saw

568
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Greg stopped by and gave him the jacket and then

569
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.160
<v Speaker 1>drove away and Ronda's murder took place like after he

570
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:01.640
<v Speaker 1>already left. Then Mark technically didn't do anything wrong, So

571
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:04.680
<v Speaker 1>why has he remained silent all this time? Like? Why

572
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.359
<v Speaker 1>is he lying about giving the jacket to Greg? Did

573
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.200
<v Speaker 1>he really want to cover for him to like let

574
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:11.640
<v Speaker 1>his friend get away with murder.

575
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:15.839
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like he's got a lot more to do

576
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.920
<v Speaker 2>with it than just simply dropping off the jacket. Maybe

577
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.480
<v Speaker 2>he was just more aware of what happened, and maybe

578
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 2>he's of the mindset where he doesn't want to rat

579
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.440
<v Speaker 2>on his friend. I don't know, or maybe he thinks

580
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.640
<v Speaker 2>he's more complicit because he stood by and watched it

581
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.079
<v Speaker 2>happen and then did nothing. I have no idea why, like,

582
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:42.920
<v Speaker 2>other than being more involved than he's alluding to their

583
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 2>being a potential that he was. He's basically saying, oh yeah,

584
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:48.599
<v Speaker 2>like I may have given her that sweater or anything

585
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:50.880
<v Speaker 2>might have happened. I don't remember. I was messed up

586
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 2>on pain pills. He's trying to basically blackout that whole

587
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>night and say like I don't really remember anything so

588
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 2>that we can't like tie him to anything specifically. And

589
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.359
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you if he had just simply handed

590
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.559
<v Speaker 2>that sweater over, that's what you would say. You would

591
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:09.880
<v Speaker 2>want to get to the bottom of what happened. So

592
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:11.880
<v Speaker 2>it just leads me to believe that he knows a

593
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.519
<v Speaker 2>lot more than he's telling us.

594
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:16.319
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm thinking as well. And it's also worth

595
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:18.960
<v Speaker 1>mentioning that Jill and Mark wound up breaking up a

596
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.240
<v Speaker 1>short time later, and she would say that one of

597
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.599
<v Speaker 1>the contributing factors is that she thought that Mark was

598
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>acting very cold and insensitive towards her about Ronda's death,

599
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.480
<v Speaker 1>even though she had lost her best friend. So it

600
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.960
<v Speaker 1>almost feels like he has some sort of guilty knowledge

601
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.480
<v Speaker 1>as well. And I do think there's a good chance

602
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.960
<v Speaker 1>that Mark may have been the second man seen inside

603
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.720
<v Speaker 1>the blue Chevy alongside Greg. But like I said in

604
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.519
<v Speaker 1>his defense, Mark's own vehicle, a gold nineteen seventy seven

605
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Buick Regal, has never been placed at the scene, so

606
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 1>if he was inside Greg's vehicle, I'm wondering where he

607
00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 1>parked the Buick Regal, and maybe if the witnesses just

608
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:56.960
<v Speaker 1>didn't see it. But I do think that after the

609
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.759
<v Speaker 1>murder took place, that if Mark was present, that he

610
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:01.599
<v Speaker 1>and Rake high tailed it out of there, and there's

611
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:04.680
<v Speaker 1>separate vehicles and have remained silent about it ever since.

612
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that sounds like you're pretty good theory, because otherwise,

613
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:11.960
<v Speaker 2>if I guess if you parked your view a regal

614
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:14.640
<v Speaker 2>somewhere that like nobody could see, I don't really know

615
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 2>what the landscape was like there, if there was somewhere

616
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.880
<v Speaker 2>that you could park to easily conceal a vehicle, and

617
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.960
<v Speaker 2>then maybe he just jumped in with Greg. That is

618
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>entirely plausible. But do we know how loose the two

619
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>of them were?

620
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.279
<v Speaker 1>Uh? I mean, they were friends, but it sounds like

621
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.759
<v Speaker 1>they were more like mutual friends, maybe just because he

622
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.920
<v Speaker 1>happened to be dating Ronda's best friend Jill. So I

623
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say that they were close enough that if Greg

624
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 1>committed a murder that Mark would be willing to stay

625
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 1>silent and cover for him, unless he was somehow complicit

626
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.559
<v Speaker 1>and did something that could have got him charged with

627
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.960
<v Speaker 1>something criminally. But yeah, it does seem likely to me

628
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.920
<v Speaker 1>that after this took place, they went their separate ways

629
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:56.599
<v Speaker 1>and then Greg drove home told his father about what

630
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 1>they did, and they helped cover for him and get

631
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.000
<v Speaker 1>rid of ittential evidence, and of course Charles decided to

632
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 1>take the lead because when he got the call from

633
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.440
<v Speaker 1>the Hintsons about an hour later, he drives off to

634
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 1>like the murder scene and accompanies the detectives to the

635
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.160
<v Speaker 1>hints In residences when they're informed about what happened to Ronda,

636
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:15.799
<v Speaker 1>so he can keep an eye on everything that's going

637
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.920
<v Speaker 1>on in the investigation. So, of course, when Larry Griffin

638
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.240
<v Speaker 1>wrote his series of articles many many years later, Greg

639
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:25.640
<v Speaker 1>did not want to talk to him. Betty did not

640
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.440
<v Speaker 1>want to talk to him. His mother, I think she

641
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:30.359
<v Speaker 1>was in a nursing home at that point. But surprisingly,

642
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.680
<v Speaker 1>in December of twenty twenty one, Charles, who was in

643
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.319
<v Speaker 1>his mid eighties at that point and had since remarried,

644
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.599
<v Speaker 1>agreed to sit down and give an interview to Larry Griffin.

645
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>But his answers were considered to be evasive, and of

646
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.839
<v Speaker 1>course he denied any allegations that he was involved in

647
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Rhonda's murder or had made any inappropriate advances towards her.

648
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.440
<v Speaker 1>But at one point, even though Griffin never even brought

649
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.640
<v Speaker 1>up the subject of DNA, and Charles suddenly stated, out

650
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 1>of the blue, quote and I don't believe they have

651
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.519
<v Speaker 1>my DNA either. I wasn't at the scene that night,

652
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.000
<v Speaker 1>so I didn't leave any DNA. I have never given

653
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.119
<v Speaker 1>any DNA to anyone, and I don't think they have

654
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Greg's either. End quote. And once again he said this

655
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.720
<v Speaker 1>completely out of the blue, even though Griffin never even

656
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 1>brought up the topic of DNA.

657
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say that that is unprompted. Basically, he's

658
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>leaking some of the truth there. There's some kind of

659
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:24.720
<v Speaker 2>admission where he's the dude, doth protest too much, like Charles,

660
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:27.160
<v Speaker 2>you're doing too much. You should have said nothing at all,

661
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.599
<v Speaker 2>because every time you open your mouth, it's like these

662
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.640
<v Speaker 2>vague admissions.

663
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, And technically what he's saying might be true, because

664
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.200
<v Speaker 1>if the DNA belongs to Tim Plants or Alan Nicol,

665
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.599
<v Speaker 1>they probably were the ones who left it there. So

666
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.680
<v Speaker 1>it is true that neither Greg or Charles's DNA will

667
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>be found at the scene. So he's saying that, so, hey,

668
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.400
<v Speaker 1>since I volunteered this, that proves that we have to

669
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.200
<v Speaker 1>be innocent because you have no physical evidence linking to

670
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the crime. But it just sounds like projection, like he's

671
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:59.519
<v Speaker 1>trying to like divert the suspicion away by talking about

672
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the evidence which seems to clear him.

673
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's weird that Greg's DNA wouldn't be at

674
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:07.119
<v Speaker 2>the scene. It's a vehicle, it's his girlfriend's vehicle, and

675
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.160
<v Speaker 2>if he handed her those items of clothing, I would

676
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>just think that, like his DNA would be all over

677
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.200
<v Speaker 2>that vehicle. It would be more odd to me if

678
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 2>there was no DNA of his bound exactly.

679
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm sure that his DNA might not be on

680
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the sweater, the touch DNA, because I'm not entirely sure

681
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>he touched her body that night, but it's reasonable to

682
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:28.799
<v Speaker 1>assume that his DNA is going to be on the

683
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.160
<v Speaker 1>jacket and the snake and a number of items in

684
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 1>the car. And for all we know, maybe his fingerprints

685
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.440
<v Speaker 1>were on the window that conveniently went missing during the

686
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.960
<v Speaker 1>mid nineteen nineties. So there is evidence Lincoln into the scene.

687
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:43.720
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's it really does seem like there's a

688
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:47.000
<v Speaker 1>family cover up. And Greg is now in his sixties.

689
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.319
<v Speaker 1>He's gone on and gotten married and moved on with

690
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.079
<v Speaker 1>his life, And as far as I can tell, Charles

691
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Speaker 1>is still alive. I think he would be eighty seven

692
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.799
<v Speaker 1>or eighty eight years old this year. But I think

693
00:33:56.839 --> 00:33:59.279
<v Speaker 1>the good news is that Judy and Bobby Hinson are

694
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.960
<v Speaker 1>also both to alive in their eighties and they're still

695
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.759
<v Speaker 1>seeking answers. I know that they have constantly talked to

696
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Larry Griffin and the local media keeping Ronda's case in

697
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the spotlight, So they are still holding out hope that

698
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 1>they will see a resolution in this case before they

699
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:14.320
<v Speaker 1>pass away.

700
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my heart really goes out to Judy and Bobby.

701
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Feels like such an injustice when you have evidence go

702
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 2>missing and you have these really good suspects who behave

703
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:30.400
<v Speaker 2>very very strangely, and Charles just who keeps popping up

704
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:36.480
<v Speaker 2>and saying stupid things, and Greg who behaved in a

705
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:39.639
<v Speaker 2>strange way in the aftermath. When we couple it with

706
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:46.119
<v Speaker 2>his coercive, controlling type behavior prior to Ronda's death, When

707
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:47.960
<v Speaker 2>we look at the way that he acted, the throwing

708
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 2>up and the not speaking to anybody, everybody grieves differently.

709
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.760
<v Speaker 2>That is for sure a blanket statement that we apply

710
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>to pretty much every case. When you try to analyze

711
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:02.079
<v Speaker 2>somebody's grief process, you really can't. All we can do

712
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 2>is look at Greg in a holistic manner and say,

713
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 2>this is a guy that it seems like there's a

714
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 2>very strong likelihood that, personally, I believe that he was

715
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.679
<v Speaker 2>trying to scare her, maybe injure her. But I don't

716
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.800
<v Speaker 2>believe that he was trying to kill her, because I

717
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.760
<v Speaker 2>think if he was, he would have taken multiple shots,

718
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:25.679
<v Speaker 2>not just assumed that one shot would finish the job.

719
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:28.559
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm thinking as well, And his constant vomiting

720
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.119
<v Speaker 1>later that morning gives me the impression that, like, if

721
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:33.159
<v Speaker 1>he had planned to kill her all along, he probably

722
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:36.280
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be so overwhelmed with anxiety and guilt. But I

723
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.760
<v Speaker 1>think it was hitting him that I killed my girlfriend

724
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:41.039
<v Speaker 1>even though I wasn't intending to, And now I'm going

725
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:43.639
<v Speaker 1>to have to face the police and become a potential

726
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 1>suspect any murder investigation. But of course, the big question

727
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.920
<v Speaker 1>now that I've heard all this new information is like,

728
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>why wasn't any of this mentioned on Unsolved Mysteries back

729
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.400
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty nine, Because if I known about Greg

730
00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:00.119
<v Speaker 1>McDowell and Charles McDowell and all this incriminating information, I

731
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.199
<v Speaker 1>would have looked at this case in a much different

732
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.280
<v Speaker 1>light when I covered it on the Trail Went Cold

733
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.519
<v Speaker 1>nine years ago, and I know Unsolved Mysteries has a

734
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 1>history of suspects who have been willing to appear on

735
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 1>camera and try to proclaim their innocence, and we've seen

736
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.039
<v Speaker 1>people like Jewel kal Or who have been themselves, yeah,

737
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:18.519
<v Speaker 1>the ultimate example where they just don't care how they

738
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 1>look and make themselves appear even worse and more suspicious.

739
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.800
<v Speaker 1>But we've heard nothing about Greg McDowell or Charles McDowell.

740
00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:28.519
<v Speaker 1>And I'd be curious to know if Unsolved Mysteries ever

741
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:30.599
<v Speaker 1>asked them to be interviewed and they said no, and

742
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>they were probably thinking to themselves, well, they've never been

743
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.320
<v Speaker 1>named as suspects or persons of interest, so for legal reasons,

744
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.880
<v Speaker 1>we can't mention anything about them on this episode. And

745
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>if you watch it today, if there are just so

746
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 1>many red herrings, like the married man and like the

747
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.679
<v Speaker 1>man seen pulling the body out of the car, you

748
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 1>realize that none of this has anything to do with it,

749
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:52.639
<v Speaker 1>and that the solution is probably a lot more simple.

750
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:54.760
<v Speaker 2>And I think if you were going to get anybody

751
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.239
<v Speaker 2>to talk, you'd likely be able to get Greg to

752
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:59.480
<v Speaker 2>like dig his own grave, because he seems to like

753
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.440
<v Speaker 2>to talk. Not Greg, Sorry, you're be able to get

754
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Charles to dig his own grave, whereas I think that

755
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Greg is a little more trepidacious, and he seems to

756
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>be more cautious, maybe because he truly is guilty, that

757
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 2>he feels guilty about what he's done. And if we're

758
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.519
<v Speaker 2>to look at the vomiting and we're too from that

759
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.960
<v Speaker 2>context of he feels really bad. It wasn't his intention

760
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.320
<v Speaker 2>to kill her, it was just to scare her, then

761
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe he doesn't trust himself to be able to hold

762
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.679
<v Speaker 2>back his guilt and to not appear like he feels

763
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.280
<v Speaker 2>really sorry for his actions. If he's to speak to somebody,

764
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>so he's going to operate cautiously and to say I'm

765
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.000
<v Speaker 2>not going to talk to anybody because it's not going

766
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:41.599
<v Speaker 2>to help me in any way, shape or form.

767
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened, because he has

768
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.480
<v Speaker 1>never been extensively interrogated, and I think it was because

769
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:51.039
<v Speaker 1>his parents automatically provided him with an alibi right away,

770
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.880
<v Speaker 1>saying he was home all night. And of course this

771
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.519
<v Speaker 1>is a small town not used to dealing with homicides,

772
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and Reverend Charles was a respected pastor in the communities,

773
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.480
<v Speaker 1>so they're probably never thinking that a guy like that

774
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:04.880
<v Speaker 1>is going to lie to protect his son from being

775
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.039
<v Speaker 1>a murder suspect. So Greg had never had to be

776
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.840
<v Speaker 1>extensively interrogated, and I don't think he's spoken to the

777
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.639
<v Speaker 1>police at all these past four decades. But he does

778
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:15.519
<v Speaker 1>fit the profile of someone if you got him in

779
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:17.960
<v Speaker 1>an interrogation room and you pushed him hard enough, then

780
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.599
<v Speaker 1>maybe he would eventually break and confess. But I think

781
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:24.599
<v Speaker 1>he's self aware enough not to do that. Whereas Charles McDowell,

782
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:26.599
<v Speaker 1>I could see him going on Unsolved Mysteries, pulling a

783
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.280
<v Speaker 1>jewel Kayler saying it was rough losing lurand at first,

784
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 1>but now all things are pretty good.

785
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:35.159
<v Speaker 2>What one hundred percent? That is exactly the trajectory I

786
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.119
<v Speaker 2>was seeing too. I'm like, I'm surprised that Charles didn't

787
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:40.480
<v Speaker 2>do it, just because from what you've told me, I

788
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:42.280
<v Speaker 2>get the impression that he's like a little bit of

789
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>a showboat.

790
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.440
<v Speaker 1>He is, yes, and the fact that he was so

791
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:48.360
<v Speaker 1>willing to speak with Larry Griffin all these years later,

792
00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:50.719
<v Speaker 1>even though the case is going back into the spotlight,

793
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.079
<v Speaker 1>seems to me that he's someone who will defend his

794
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 1>innocence no matter what, even if he could potentially incriminate himself.

795
00:38:57.159 --> 00:38:59.639
<v Speaker 2>I love that Larry Griffin did this really deep dive

796
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.679
<v Speaker 2>and we're getting this view of Ronda that we would

797
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:05.320
<v Speaker 2>have never got, and all of these other people who

798
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.599
<v Speaker 2>are connected to or in tangentially connected to her, and

799
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.840
<v Speaker 2>all of these potentials and something that we looked at

800
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:13.239
<v Speaker 2>that could be this thing, maybe she's having an affair

801
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.039
<v Speaker 2>with a married man. Well, no, it's likely just a

802
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.079
<v Speaker 2>red herring because her friend asked her about that, because

803
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:23.280
<v Speaker 2>that was their experience and not Ronda's. And being able

804
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>to find this context with all these gross interactions with

805
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Charles that we maybe can tie to these showers that

806
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.679
<v Speaker 2>she was taking and saying that she felt dirty and

807
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 2>the big thing that she had to tell her dad

808
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.679
<v Speaker 2>that she just never got a chance to do. It's

809
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>just so important in these cases to know these small details.

810
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.760
<v Speaker 2>So I really think Charles Griffin, wherever he is, for

811
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:51.199
<v Speaker 2>giving us this context and this nuance all of the

812
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.760
<v Speaker 2>layers of this case were able to look at it

813
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.280
<v Speaker 2>from a completely different lens.

814
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And I am actually hoping that he does a

815
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.480
<v Speaker 1>long form podcast at some point because there are just

816
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 1>so many articles that I'm thinking to myself, this needs

817
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.519
<v Speaker 1>to be resented in podcast forms so that no more

818
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.039
<v Speaker 1>people get this whole story because the newspaper he wrote

819
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:11.239
<v Speaker 1>it in, the Wilkes Record, is a pretty small one,

820
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.599
<v Speaker 1>so I'd wag sure that the vast majority of people

821
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.480
<v Speaker 1>out there have never read this and are basing their

822
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:20.159
<v Speaker 1>assumption about this case based solely on the unsolved Mystery segment,

823
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.159
<v Speaker 1>which is now outdated and doesn't give the whole story.

824
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:26.079
<v Speaker 1>So I do hope that all this work eventually pays

825
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 1>off and that maybe this will be featured on a

826
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.920
<v Speaker 1>bigger true crime show and a documentary series or a

827
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.800
<v Speaker 1>podcast series, because once you know the whole story, it

828
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 1>seems pretty obvious that yes, this was not an accident

829
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 1>by a stranger and was not ron to being killed

830
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 1>by a married man. It just seems like she was

831
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:45.079
<v Speaker 1>killed by a strange boyfriend, Greg McDowell, and that he

832
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.480
<v Speaker 1>has somehow managed to get away with it for over

833
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:48.480
<v Speaker 1>forty years now.

834
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this would make a really excellent long form podcast.

835
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.280
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I really hope Charles Griffin does that because

836
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:58.599
<v Speaker 2>you could really just get into the details here. There's

837
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 2>so many interesting el men's and connections, so I would

838
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:06.199
<v Speaker 2>really hope he's got so much material to go with.

839
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, definitely. Yes. Like I mentioned earlier, is I'd encourage

840
00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:12.880
<v Speaker 1>after listening to this everyone like read these articles if

841
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.519
<v Speaker 1>he can, because there's so much information I couldn't get

842
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:18.119
<v Speaker 1>into here, because it goes so in depth about Ronda's

843
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:20.679
<v Speaker 1>life and so many of the other people in our life,

844
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.079
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the stuff about the original investigation

845
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.920
<v Speaker 1>that it provides such a clear picture about what happened

846
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:26.480
<v Speaker 1>in this case.

847
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll get you to send me a write up on

848
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:32.079
<v Speaker 2>this case, link your sources so then people can go

849
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:35.400
<v Speaker 2>down to our sources and they can explore these articles

850
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>that Charles Griffin wrote, because I know that a lot

851
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 2>of people are going to finish listening to this episode

852
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 2>and want to know more.

853
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and it's eighty one parts long, so pre prepared

854
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 1>for a very large rabbit hole. So before we conclude

855
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 1>any further thoughts on the murder of Ronda Hinson.

856
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.039
<v Speaker 2>No, this was a really interesting case. I'm glad that

857
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:56.800
<v Speaker 2>you chose this to share this with me, especially because

858
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.960
<v Speaker 2>it's got such vintage vibes that it goes back nine

859
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.800
<v Speaker 2>years to episode number four of The Trail Went Cold,

860
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:05.000
<v Speaker 2>back when you were a baby podcaster.

861
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, I probably cringe if I go back and

862
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 1>listen to that episode now. But when people have always

863
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:12.480
<v Speaker 1>asked me over the years, is there any case you'd

864
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:14.559
<v Speaker 1>covered on The Trail Went Cold where you've changed your

865
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 1>original thoughts since you released the episode. I always mentioned

866
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:20.840
<v Speaker 1>this one because, like I mentioned in that episode, I

867
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.199
<v Speaker 1>leaned towards ron as death being an accident with a

868
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:25.960
<v Speaker 1>stray bullet by a complete stranger. But now I've done

869
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:27.920
<v Speaker 1>a complete one eighty and think that she was likely

870
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.519
<v Speaker 1>killed by her boyfriend. So that ends our coverage about

871
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:33.559
<v Speaker 1>the murder of Ronda Hinson. Thank you so much for

872
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.119
<v Speaker 1>listening to us, and we will have Ashley back for

873
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:38.960
<v Speaker 1>our next Theories of episodes. But until then, have yourself,

874
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.920
<v Speaker 1>say a great series of weeks, Robin.

875
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:43.079
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to tell us a little bit about

876
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:44.320
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold? Patreon?

877
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, The Trail and Cold Patreon has been around for

878
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:51.079
<v Speaker 1>three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features

879
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>like early ad free episodes, and I also send out

880
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:57.400
<v Speaker 1>stickers and signed thank you cards to anyone who signs

881
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.760
<v Speaker 1>up with us on Patreon if you join our five

882
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.199
<v Speaker 1>dollar tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes

883
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:07.360
<v Speaker 1>in which I talk about cases which are not featured

884
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.239
<v Speaker 1>on The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive

885
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:13.440
<v Speaker 1>to Patreon and if you join our highest tier, Tier three,

886
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:16.280
<v Speaker 1>the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer

887
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:20.960
<v Speaker 1>is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries,

888
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

889
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:27.480
<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

890
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.920
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

891
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.039
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

892
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.519
<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

893
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.360
<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

894
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

895
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

896
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.960
<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

897
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

898
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:51.480
<v Speaker 3>So I want to let you know a little bit

899
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.480
<v Speaker 3>about the Jeweles and Nashty. Patreon so there's early ad

900
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:57.400
<v Speaker 3>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

901
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.440
<v Speaker 3>Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an so

902
00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:02.559
<v Speaker 3>they're not very many, but they're just too short to

903
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.519
<v Speaker 3>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

904
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.119
<v Speaker 3>so we hope you'll check out those patreons, we'll link

905
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 3>them in the show notes.

906
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.639
<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

907
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.119
<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

908
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.159
<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

909
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.400
<v Speaker 1>You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

910
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.280
<v Speaker 1>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So

911
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:26.000
<v Speaker 1>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

912
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.480
<v Speaker 1>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

913
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy