Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
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Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
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Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
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Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a string going
Speaker 2: on here, something just kid with my dog, something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog. My dog. We're flying through there, over
Speaker 2: the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence, and name was dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are
Speaker 2: you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 2: out here? Did you see what it was? It was
Speaker 2: enough out here looking them new to window now and
Speaker 2: I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside,
Speaker 2: just fine, Hello, hit the buddy out here. What quent
Speaker 2: on out there? I thought of a bit just about
Speaker 2: six foot nine? I don't know. Easy ann out there? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm walking right.
Speaker 1: Heady, all right, Folks, want to welcome our guest to
Speaker 1: the show. It is Tucker from Utah.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show man, Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: I am glad to have you been looking forward to
Speaker 1: this conversation. So let's get right into it. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about this bigfoot thing. What got you interested in the
Speaker 1: subject to begin with.
Speaker 3: What got me real interested in bigfoot to start off
Speaker 3: with was actually my friend Jordan. He moved into my
Speaker 3: neighborhood probably like ten years ago, and his dad had
Speaker 3: a crazy sasquatching counter with tree knocks up in the
Speaker 3: high U went to mountains here in Utah, so we
Speaker 3: started talking, and then I started watching the TV show
Speaker 3: Finding Bigfoot, and that kind of got me into it.
Speaker 3: And then I found your podcast, so I started just
Speaker 3: absorbing all this media. We started going out and squatching
Speaker 3: it and I had some funny experiences with that where
Speaker 3: we thought we were being stocked by a mountain lion
Speaker 3: at one point. That was fun. Luckily it was just
Speaker 3: a deer, but fun times. So that's what really got
Speaker 3: me into bigfoot to begin with, and then it just
Speaker 3: grew from there throughout my teenage years. And then after
Speaker 3: I graduated high school, I went on a mission for
Speaker 3: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints to Portland, Oregon,
Speaker 3: which the Pacific Northwest tons of sasquatch encounters up there,
Speaker 3: and so I was really excited because I love fishing,
Speaker 3: I love being in nature. With all the stuff they
Speaker 3: got up there every day off that I had. We
Speaker 3: were going out hiking, we're fishing, we're doing all sorts
Speaker 3: of fun stuff. I never went and specifically looked for
Speaker 3: sasquatch while I was up there, although I do want
Speaker 3: to go back and spend some nights up there and
Speaker 3: see what I can stir up. But while I was
Speaker 3: up there, I had what I believed to be a
Speaker 3: sasquatch encounter. So it was February twenty eighteen. We went
Speaker 3: up to this little lake called Lake Harriet. It's just
Speaker 3: thirty miles outside of this small pot on town called Estakata,
Speaker 3: and that's a town about an hour outside of Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 3: So on our day off, we go to this little lake.
Speaker 3: We're just fishing there. No one else is up there.
Speaker 3: Like I said, it's February, it's cold, it's snowing on us.
Speaker 3: We didn't see another living soul. We'd been fishing there
Speaker 3: for maybe an hour and a half, and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, this rock that's probably foot and a half
Speaker 3: to two feet in diameter comes flying out of the
Speaker 3: trees straight across the lake from us. It didn't fall
Speaker 3: from the shoreline into the water. It came out of
Speaker 3: the tops of the trees that were right down next
Speaker 3: to the lake. Out of the tops of the trees
Speaker 3: landed like ten fifteen feet out in the water from
Speaker 3: the opposite shore. It was just the strangest thing. So
Speaker 3: we're like, what the heck, what could make a rock
Speaker 3: go flying out of the tops of trees. I'm with
Speaker 3: my missionary companion and a member of our local congregation,
Speaker 3: and so we're trying to rationalize it. We're like, okay,
Speaker 3: it wasn't a big fish because we saw the rocks
Speaker 3: come out of the tops of the trees. Were like, okay,
Speaker 3: it wasn't a living thing. We know it was a rock.
Speaker 3: So we're like, okay, maybe the rock was rolling down
Speaker 3: the hill that hit a jump and then came flying
Speaker 3: it out of the tops of the trees. We're like, okay,
Speaker 3: that's possible. But it's so heavily forested up there. We
Speaker 3: would have heard that thing crashing through trees. We would
Speaker 3: have seen things breaking. There would have been other debris
Speaker 3: that fell down into the water after, because they would
Speaker 3: have caused at least a little bit of a landslide
Speaker 3: down there. With how big that rock was and how
Speaker 3: much debris was.
Speaker 2: In the way.
Speaker 3: The only other rational thing that we could think of
Speaker 3: is either some super strong dude was on the other
Speaker 3: shore line, which you can only get to by boat. Apparently,
Speaker 3: I was later told by the member of our local
Speaker 3: congregation there that you can only get to the other
Speaker 3: side of the lake by boat. We could see the
Speaker 3: entire lake from where we were at. There were no boats.
Speaker 3: We were the only people there, So it wasn't a
Speaker 3: person unless it was a homeless dude that was just
Speaker 3: absolutely jacked and decided to throw a rock for some reason.
Speaker 3: So the only other thing we could think of. We're like,
Speaker 3: maybe it was a meteor or something like, just these
Speaker 3: crazy scenarios that were like, it's significantly more outlandish for
Speaker 3: these other scenarios that we're thinking of than what it
Speaker 3: most likely is, which is a sasquatch. No, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to say I saw a sasquatch and I one
Speaker 3: hundred percent know that it was a sasquatch, because I
Speaker 3: don't I didn't see one. But it's the most logical
Speaker 3: explanation about what happened to us there.
Speaker 1: I say it all the time, Oham's Raiser. The simplest
Speaker 1: explanation probably is the explanation, and I use it in
Speaker 1: the context of looking at this from a very scientific,
Speaker 1: very skeptical point of view. But I've said it recently
Speaker 1: with some of my own experiences and obviously the experiences
Speaker 1: of other people that I've interviewed. Sometimes Okham's razor is
Speaker 1: the way to explain sasquatch activity. Sometimes the easiest explanation,
Speaker 1: just like you pointed out.
Speaker 3: Is that it was big foot activity.
Speaker 1: All these other things make no sense. The rock didn't
Speaker 1: fall out of the sky, it wasn't placed there by aliens.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the simplest explanation is that there was a sasquatch
Speaker 1: in the area that threw a rock at you. I
Speaker 1: totally get it. I've tried to explain away some of
Speaker 1: my own experiences using that Ockham's raiser sort of application,
Speaker 1: And sometimes the simplest answer is that you had an
Speaker 1: experience with bigfoot. Again, it's very hard to say because
Speaker 1: you didn't see what did the rock throwing. But when
Speaker 1: you go through what it's not and you're left with
Speaker 1: only one possible explanation, sometimes that simple explanation is what
Speaker 1: it is now in retrospect, looking back, do you feel
Speaker 1: that way about that experience? Now, are you pretty sure
Speaker 1: that what you experienced was something Sasquatch related?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were. We're pretty certain then. I'm fairly certain
Speaker 3: now that it was a sasquatch that we encountered. The
Speaker 3: member of that local congregation he'd actually had some similar
Speaker 3: encounters with Sasquatches that had done similar things that this.
Speaker 3: One time he went camping with his son and his
Speaker 3: son's friend. He was inside his tent trailer with his dog.
Speaker 3: The tent trailer all of a sudden got tipped on
Speaker 3: its side virtually. He tried to send his dog out
Speaker 3: to go chase down his son and his friend because
Speaker 3: it was probably just them playing a prank. Dog wouldn't
Speaker 3: go outside the tent trailer, so he went outside with
Speaker 3: his pistol. A that's not cool, back off, He said.
Speaker 3: He saw there was a fire going that his son
Speaker 3: had started, and so he said, at the edge of
Speaker 3: the firelight, he saw a silhouette of a large creature
Speaker 3: just looking at him. And he said he wasn't sure
Speaker 3: if it was eyeshine or glowing eyes, but he could
Speaker 3: see the eyes at the very least reflecting the firelight.
Speaker 3: He said that anytime he pointed his firearm at the creature.
Speaker 3: It would throw a stick or a log in his direction,
Speaker 3: as if to say I can get you or I
Speaker 3: can hurt you. Then it would back away, and then
Speaker 3: it'd appear in the firelight, just in a slightly different way.
Speaker 3: So finally he just put his pistol away. He's just like,
Speaker 3: all right, it stopped throwing stuff at him. He was
Speaker 3: fairly certain that it was a sasquatch, just based on
Speaker 3: his previous experiences. Then, because of all the research that
Speaker 3: I had done, all the sasquatch stuff that I had
Speaker 3: been into previously with finding Bigfoot going squatching on my own,
Speaker 3: listening to you ended up just really making more sense
Speaker 3: that it was a sasquatch that threw that rock than
Speaker 3: anything else.
Speaker 1: Before we started recording, you mentioned that other people had
Speaker 1: experiences that had shared their experiences with you. Can you
Speaker 1: recall some of those stories and encounters that people have
Speaker 1: shared with you over the years and your research?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So this one also takes place up in Oregon.
Speaker 3: I don't know how many of your listeners are familiar
Speaker 3: with LDS missions, but as an LDS missionary, you get
Speaker 3: moved to different areas within a larger area. So after
Speaker 3: I had been moved out of that small town of
Speaker 3: Esticada to a different area. I later saw that missionary
Speaker 3: that I was with my companion another time, and he
Speaker 3: shared another experience with me. He said that he and
Speaker 3: his companion that had just gotten moved into the area,
Speaker 3: they decided to go find this lake. We wanted to
Speaker 3: go find it on one of our adventures, but we
Speaker 3: decided to take a Toyota Corolla on a four wheel
Speaker 3: drive road, and that didn't work out too well, so
Speaker 3: he turned around. But they got a local member of
Speaker 3: the congregation to take them out to that lake on
Speaker 3: his truck. So he said when they were going out,
Speaker 3: they're following all these dirt roads because there's all these
Speaker 3: four service roads up there. And they eventually turned down
Speaker 3: this really old, dilapidated forest service road they said they
Speaker 3: were going. It was super sketchy. The road was like
Speaker 3: washed out in some places, just not in great shape.
Speaker 3: And eventually they made it to this spot where the
Speaker 3: road was so narrow it was barely wide enough for
Speaker 3: the truck, and they got a flat tire on that spot,
Speaker 3: and so they couldn't stop. They had to keep going
Speaker 3: till they kind of spot wide enough to pull off
Speaker 3: where they could actually change the tire. So they finally
Speaker 3: get to the top of this ridge and they were
Speaker 3: able to pull off that dirt road. And it's always
Speaker 3: raining or misty up in Oregon, so it's really cloudy
Speaker 3: or foggy up at the top of this ridge that
Speaker 3: they're at, so they can't see it real far off
Speaker 3: into the trees, so they're busy changing the tire on
Speaker 3: the truck. He said that just like we had a
Speaker 3: rock thrown at us when we were fishing. He said,
Speaker 3: there was a log maybe five six inches around four
Speaker 3: or five feet long that was thrown at them or
Speaker 3: came flying parallel to the ground out of the trees,
Speaker 3: hit against another tree, and then broke into a bunch
Speaker 3: of pieces, almost like something just trucked a log at
Speaker 3: them over its head. They were so freaked out by
Speaker 3: it because whatever it was immediately around them, like wherever
Speaker 3: it was. So they finished changing the tire on the truck,
Speaker 3: turned around, got out of there. There's a ranger station
Speaker 3: for the Forest National Forest in Estakada, so they pull
Speaker 3: into the ranger station when they get back to town
Speaker 3: to let them know about what happened to him and say, hey,
Speaker 3: someone tried to throw a large stick at us or something.
Speaker 3: Maybe go send some rangers up to go check that out,
Speaker 3: make sure that everything's squared away up there. So they
Speaker 3: found the road on an old Forest Service map at
Speaker 3: the ranger station. They're like, oh, it was this road
Speaker 3: that we were on, And the Forest Service ranger that
Speaker 3: was at the ranger station said that road has been
Speaker 3: closed for ten years. No one goes on that road anymore,
Speaker 3: and that would explain why I was in such a
Speaker 3: bad state when they went on it. I'm shocked they
Speaker 3: were even able to make it on that road at
Speaker 3: all with the trod. So there's no reason for anyone
Speaker 3: to be up there unless someone else had driven a
Speaker 3: truck up there or managed to make it up there.
Speaker 3: He was saying that it didn't look like anyone had
Speaker 3: driven up there recently.
Speaker 1: It's definitely interesting with the throwing what appears to be
Speaker 1: this aggressive behavior. I've had rocks thrown at me a
Speaker 1: couple of times when I was up in Radium a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. With Todd standing. It's not in
Speaker 1: every one of these encounters, but there does seem to
Speaker 1: be a pattern in certain areas. When you look at
Speaker 1: these encounters. In talking to your friends, you mentioned the
Speaker 1: first story that had something to do with something being
Speaker 1: thrown in your research and looking at that and hearing
Speaker 1: these stories, do you think this is more of some
Speaker 1: sort of a curious behavior or do you think these
Speaker 1: things are trying to warn people out of the area.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's aggression? Obviously it's subjective, nobody really knows.
Speaker 1: But what's your opinion on why they're throwing rocks and
Speaker 1: sticks in these other things? Do you think it's just
Speaker 1: to get people out of their area.
Speaker 3: I do think it's to get people out of their area.
Speaker 3: I have a whole kind of theory behind that, because
Speaker 3: if you think about it, if sasquatch is such a
Speaker 3: top predator in their environment, why not just there's three
Speaker 3: random creatures that are stuck out there, why not just
Speaker 3: go take them out they're in your area, go beat
Speaker 3: them up, kill them, drag them off, eat them whatever.
Speaker 3: But it just threw a log at them. We got
Speaker 3: a rock thrown at us to try and scare us off.
Speaker 3: If it was a SaaS watch that throw a rock
Speaker 3: at us. The member of the congregation, he had sticks
Speaker 3: and logs thrown at him around his camp these creatures
Speaker 3: had every opportunity to harm us and harm him in
Speaker 3: all these encounters, but yet they didn't. I don't know
Speaker 3: if it's because they chose not to or exactly what
Speaker 3: the deal is with why there aren't more interactions with
Speaker 3: them harming us. But I have a theory about why
Speaker 3: they might do that.
Speaker 1: Let's get into your theory.
Speaker 3: So a lot of people might call me crazy. My
Speaker 3: mom calls me crazy all the time because I have
Speaker 3: this theory. I don't know if you've heard the Sasquatch
Speaker 3: is Caine theory before. So the Sasquatches Caine theory basically
Speaker 3: goes as I don't know how many of you have
Speaker 3: read the Bible or anything like that, but in the Bible,
Speaker 3: Cain kills his brother Abel. It is the first murder
Speaker 3: on the earth, and so because of that, Cain is
Speaker 3: cursed to be cast out and be separate from everyone
Speaker 3: else in the Bible. I was going back and rereading
Speaker 3: that section.
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to Sea. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: It talks about how it wasn't just Caine, it was Kane,
Speaker 3: his wife, his followers, and his kids. So it was
Speaker 3: a group of people that were cast out, and they
Speaker 3: were cursed to be separate, and there was a mark
Speaker 3: put upon them. My theory is that Cain and his
Speaker 3: followers were cursed and that mark set upon them to
Speaker 3: keep them separate from us. You hear a lot of
Speaker 3: different descriptions of sasquatch, but the most common description is large,
Speaker 3: covered in fur, a little bit darker skin, or gray skin.
Speaker 3: In Native American stories, you have these Native American tribes
Speaker 3: that are saying they're just a tribe of people that
Speaker 3: are off in the woods. They don't really interact with them.
Speaker 3: In the Bible, when we read about Cain, he basically says, Oh,
Speaker 3: this curse is more than I can bear. I'll just
Speaker 3: go have someone kill me, basically is what he says.
Speaker 3: Then God says, yeah, I'm going to make it so
Speaker 3: that people can't kill you and can't find you basically,
Speaker 3: or it's very difficult to kill you, very difficult to
Speaker 3: find you. And if people do kill you, they're going
Speaker 3: to be cursed sevenfold. So my theory is that in
Speaker 3: my research, I've heard you have encounters where sasquatch do
Speaker 3: harm people or do get really aggressive with people, but
Speaker 3: most of the encounters and stories that I've heard. People
Speaker 3: get intimidated, they get paced out of an area that
Speaker 3: they're in, they get things thrown at them, but nothing
Speaker 3: hits them, or at least nothing hits them they could
Speaker 3: harm them. So my theory is that sasquatch is not
Speaker 3: necessarily Kane, but at the very least the descendants of
Speaker 3: Cain's followers that are still on the earth, because they're
Speaker 3: still cursed to be separate. There's still cursed to be
Speaker 3: apart from everyone. And it would make sense also because
Speaker 3: they're DNA. There's so many hair samples that get collected
Speaker 3: and they come back is human DNA or nearly human DNA,
Speaker 3: and it makes sense for them because they were human
Speaker 3: or are still technically human in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of correlations between that and then to me,
Speaker 3: it also explains a lot of that scientific and paranormal
Speaker 3: or in my opinion's spiritual aspects of sasquatch, because in
Speaker 3: my opinion, there are still a lot of things to
Speaker 3: be discovered in the world, but a large nine foot
Speaker 3: call population of creatures living in the woods in North America,
Speaker 3: I feel like they would have been discovered at some
Speaker 3: point unless they're so extremely intelligent that they can avoid
Speaker 3: us for some reason. But where are the bodies, where's
Speaker 3: the physical evidence for their existence beyond footprints and hair
Speaker 3: samples that can't be explained. But you take the spiritual aspect,
Speaker 3: where it's a group of people that were cursed to
Speaker 3: be separate from everyone else, cursed to be hidden, so
Speaker 3: they can't interact with us. They can't harm us unless
Speaker 3: they're harmed first, in my opinion, because when I've heard
Speaker 3: of the encounters where a hunter shoots the sasquatch, then
Speaker 3: that hunter is physically harmed or physically attacked in some
Speaker 3: way by a sasquatch, But until the person makes the
Speaker 3: first aggressive move, there's not really any harm done towards
Speaker 3: the person, at least in the experiences I've heard. And
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that
Speaker 3: would say something different than that with their encounters. That's fine,
Speaker 3: but that's just from the majority of the experiences I've heard.
Speaker 3: That's my understanding of it.
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm going to push back on your theory
Speaker 1: a little bit here.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 1: Have you considered that it's possible again, it goes back
Speaker 1: to Ockham's razor. For me, most large predators if they
Speaker 1: encounter something like a person or another large predator, or
Speaker 1: even a large prey animal. But they all have to
Speaker 1: make a decision at some point in time. Is this
Speaker 1: worth the return on the risk that I'm going to
Speaker 1: have to put in to capture the defend my territory,
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. It's a very animalistic thing, right,
Speaker 1: we have to do that as humans. You get in
Speaker 1: a situation and you're facing the six foot seven dude
Speaker 1: that just pissed you off at the bar, do you
Speaker 1: go up and punch them in the face or do
Speaker 1: you tell and go the opposite direction because you got
Speaker 1: to consider you could get hurt. Basically, I think it's
Speaker 1: the same thing. In my opinion, I think these things
Speaker 1: are flesh and blood. We'll get into that in a minute,
Speaker 1: because I've definitely changed a lot as far as that
Speaker 1: goes because of my own experiences, which we can talk
Speaker 1: about a little bit here in a second. But let
Speaker 1: me challenge your theory a little bit, and do you
Speaker 1: think it's possible that these things are flesh and blood?
Speaker 1: Because you mentioned a couple of things. The DNA is
Speaker 1: coming back, it's either part human or it seems to
Speaker 1: be human but something else. I think that's pure contamination. Honestly,
Speaker 1: there's only been a couple of DNA studies that I'm
Speaker 1: aware of, Melbukeatchum's trash study that I think is complete
Speaker 1: bunk them. I don't think there's any science there whatsoever
Speaker 1: her in her study, So I throw everything out, including
Speaker 1: the baby and the bathwater when it comes to that.
Speaker 1: Then there's the Brian Sykes study, which again I think
Speaker 1: is a flawed study for whatever reason. I think there's
Speaker 1: a whole lot there that is probably yet to be
Speaker 1: discovered as far as what Brian Sykes did. But DNA
Speaker 1: in and of itself always seems to be convoluted, and
Speaker 1: I think what really happens there is people don't realize
Speaker 1: how difficult it is to collect DNA if you just
Speaker 1: go out into the field. I actually interviewed a guy
Speaker 1: last year, I guess it was who his job was
Speaker 1: to collect e DNA for studies with the wildlife something.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what his job was, but this
Speaker 1: was his job, and he talked about that at length
Speaker 1: on the show. How difficult it is to get samples
Speaker 1: of DNA, even e. DNA that's not contaminated. You breathe
Speaker 1: on it, it's contaminated. You spit on it, it's contaminated.
Speaker 1: You touch it with your fingers, it's contaminated. So I
Speaker 1: think DNA is this thing that people watch too much
Speaker 1: television and they think that DNA samples can just be
Speaker 1: picked up with a Q tip. You stick it in
Speaker 1: this little thing and you send it off and it
Speaker 1: comes back roses or whatever you expected it to be.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case at all. Same thing
Speaker 1: with the Discovery. It's the same thing. And I talked
Speaker 1: about this in my first book, Sasquatch on Leash, The
Speaker 1: Truth behind the Legend. I talked about where the bodies?
Speaker 1: Why aren't there any physical evidence I'm using my air
Speaker 1: quotes here of their existence, ie dead bodies right, And
Speaker 1: I talk about that in the book. It's very simple.
Speaker 1: I think nature takes care of itself. I read or
Speaker 1: saw something recently where someone said a large animal like
Speaker 1: an elephant, for example, can die on the planes of
Speaker 1: Africa or wherever it's at, and it takes four days
Speaker 1: for that animal to completely disappear. There's nothing left but
Speaker 1: a greasy spot for this animal. Elephants are multiple tons,
Speaker 1: so I think those, in my opinion, explain away why
Speaker 1: there's not a body and why the DNA comes back
Speaker 1: the way that it does. But I tell you there
Speaker 1: is something more to these creatures. I believe because of
Speaker 1: my own experience. As you mentioned eyeglow versus eyeshine earlier,
Speaker 1: when you were talking about one of the stories you
Speaker 1: were sharing. I saw that last summer out in the
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. I saw two sets of glowing white eyes.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that these creatures are flesh and blood
Speaker 1: and they have what I consider to be these superhuman abilities.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think they're paranormal. I think it's just
Speaker 1: something like a cuttlefish or something like an octopus, or
Speaker 1: something that's natural to these animals that we just don't understand.
Speaker 1: So I guess my challenge to your theory is, in
Speaker 1: order for that to be true, there's a whole lot
Speaker 1: of other things that would have to be true leading
Speaker 1: up to that point. So it's very hard for me
Speaker 1: to go down that road. Do you think it's possible
Speaker 1: that the alternate explanation to these things being something spiritual
Speaker 1: or more spiritual? Is it possible that these creatures are
Speaker 1: flesh and blood and they just have some of these
Speaker 1: supers for abilities that we don't understand as of yet
Speaker 1: that might be perfectly natural for them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I completely agree that's completely possible. In fact, several
Speaker 3: people that I know here in Utah they believe that,
Speaker 3: and they're members of the LDS Church. So I also
Speaker 3: want to preface that I don't speak for the entire
Speaker 3: LDS Church or community. It's just my own opinion that
Speaker 3: I've come to based on my own experiences and research.
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of people that I'm aware of
Speaker 3: that have the same belief that it's just a flesh
Speaker 3: and blood creature, and it very well could be. We
Speaker 3: wouldn't be having this conversation if any of us knew.
Speaker 3: So I completely agree it could be a flesh and
Speaker 3: blood creature. But part of why I believe that it
Speaker 3: could be pain or at least as Followers theory, is
Speaker 3: because they're flesh and blood. Still, they're still here. It's
Speaker 3: not like they're a spiritual entity that can all of
Speaker 3: a sudden disappear and reappear somewhere else. I think that
Speaker 3: they are able to house. The best way to put this,
Speaker 3: there's still a physical creature here on the planet that
Speaker 3: is able to interact with the environment. Again, it could
Speaker 3: be like you said with the elephant. When an elephant dies,
Speaker 3: it takes four days for it to be completely dismantled.
Speaker 3: You can't tell that an elephant died there. It could
Speaker 3: be one hundred percent the same thing. I can't tell
Speaker 3: you I know for sure, just with all the spiritual
Speaker 3: aspects that I've noticed when it comes to all the
Speaker 3: anomalies that come with sasquatch encounters. Whether it's like technology
Speaker 3: for some reason just doesn't work whenever you are trying
Speaker 3: to record on video or on audio a sasquatch call
Speaker 3: or something. For some reason, anytime that happens, technology just
Speaker 3: happens to fail. Could that be just something that we
Speaker 3: don't understand necessarily that's biological about a creature. Sure, that's
Speaker 3: one hundred percent possible, But that also could be something
Speaker 3: to help keep that population hidden from us, if that
Speaker 3: curse that was put on them to keep them separate
Speaker 3: from us. Is true. Again, I don't know. I couldn't
Speaker 3: tell you one hundred percent one way or the other.
Speaker 3: If I could, I would happily share that evidence and
Speaker 3: information with you. But Unfortunately, I don't have the whole
Speaker 3: story yet.
Speaker 1: I do agree there are a ton of anomalies that
Speaker 1: come with these encounter stories. I tell you, I'll be
Speaker 1: honest with you. The more that I've documented, the more
Speaker 1: people I've interviewed, the more people I talked to about this,
Speaker 1: I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people
Speaker 1: are just batshit crazy. That really is what it boils
Speaker 1: down to when you get with these really strange encounters. Now,
Speaker 1: the flip side to that, I joke about the batshit crazy,
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of people that are attracted
Speaker 1: to the subject that aren't mentally stable. They do make
Speaker 1: up their stories. They're very outlandish and it's an attention thing.
Speaker 1: But there are people that I trust that have had
Speaker 1: weird experiences, lost time, strange lights, and orbs. I talked
Speaker 1: to somebody recently. I was out on an expedition about
Speaker 1: three hours away from here. I had a speaking gig
Speaker 1: and we did a camp out for a couple of days,
Speaker 1: and I went out in the woods on the final
Speaker 1: day with a couple of friends of mine in the area.
Speaker 1: They wanted to take me to where they believed was
Speaker 1: a bigfoot structure. We drove on what sounds like very
Speaker 1: similar to the road that you were describing earlier that
Speaker 1: you guys went down in the Toyota Corolla. We were
Speaker 1: in my truck fortunately, so we didn't have that problem
Speaker 1: in the Tacoma. We made it to our destination and
Speaker 1: they took me to this area where it did look
Speaker 1: like a very large structure. And by structure, it was
Speaker 1: just a bunch of broken sticks. It looks like you
Speaker 1: would collect sticks to build the structure up against this
Speaker 1: very large tree. My two friends were very convinced that
Speaker 1: this was made by a bigfoot. Now, there were a
Speaker 1: lot of strange things in this area. There were x structures,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of trees and formations that were
Speaker 1: apparently placed there by someone or something. And the first
Speaker 1: thing that I went to was, I said, look, guys,
Speaker 1: if we're here right now, that means somebody else could
Speaker 1: have been here two hours before us. They might be
Speaker 1: here three hours after we leave. They could have been
Speaker 1: here two days ago. If we're here as human beings,
Speaker 1: it is possible that somebody else created this. Now I
Speaker 1: don't know why. I don't know that anymore than I
Speaker 1: know why a bigfoot would create something like that in nature.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense to me because it serves no
Speaker 1: apparent purpose to me, it's not sheltering from anything. None
Speaker 1: of that stuff makes sense. These ex'es don't make sense.
Speaker 1: These other formations don't make sense. So it's interesting that
Speaker 1: you see these different things with the structures. But there's
Speaker 1: very much animalistic behavior. Throwing things is a very ape
Speaker 1: primate thing. It's a very great ape primate sort of
Speaker 1: behavior that seems to go through these stories.
Speaker 3: But what I've also.
Speaker 1: Found is that there's a lot of influences. I just
Speaker 1: did a show today actually as we're recording this, at
Speaker 1: dropped today about the Falc Monster in the Legend of
Speaker 1: Boggy Creek and the true story behind how that became
Speaker 1: a thing. The Falc Monster had been seen for hundreds
Speaker 1: of years, and there's this common theme that seems to
Speaker 1: run through all of these encounters. I've even said it
Speaker 1: before after I watched the Legend of Boggy Greek for
Speaker 1: the first time last year I saw that movie. If
Speaker 1: you take what's said in the movie about these encounters
Speaker 1: and you apply them to the interviews that we're doing
Speaker 1: today on my show or any of the show that
Speaker 1: interviews people with these encounters. That theme runs through the vocalizations,
Speaker 1: the smells, the footprints, all the things. Right, So it's
Speaker 1: either one of two things. It's true and it's really
Speaker 1: associated with this phenomenon. These things are doing these things
Speaker 1: and people are experiencing those things, or people are just
Speaker 1: taking what's in pop culture and applying it to the
Speaker 1: situations and encounters that they say they have. I would
Speaker 1: like to believe that for the hope of humanity. That's
Speaker 1: not the case in most of the cases when we
Speaker 1: interview folks, But I think we have to pay attention
Speaker 1: to that and some of the weirder things. How do
Speaker 1: you make your story stand out in twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: when you say you've had an encounter with the Bigfoot?
Speaker 1: That's not shocking anymore.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to watch the new Jurassic World rebirth movie,
Speaker 1: so I'm going back and we're watching those old Jurassic
Speaker 1: Park and then the Jurassic World series. And there was
Speaker 1: a line in one of the movies we watched last night.
Speaker 1: Claire's in the control room and they're talking about the newest,
Speaker 1: greatest thing. They're talking about a Dominus rex or whatever
Speaker 1: it's called. She says, Look, people aren't excited by dinosaurs anymore.
Speaker 1: It's not a thing. It has to be bigger and
Speaker 1: better and scarier. I think that's what happens in a
Speaker 1: lot of these encounters. Honestly, if you want to make
Speaker 1: yourself stick out, you got to have this really out
Speaker 1: there encounter where there was a bigfoot coming off of
Speaker 1: a UFO, or there had to be orbs or lights,
Speaker 1: or dog man was chasing the bigfoot. So it's always
Speaker 1: this one up game that seems to be infiltrating the
Speaker 1: phenomenon of these encounters in my opinion. And I hope
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I hope everybody is sharing their true and
Speaker 1: honest encounter. But when you have that weird stuff that
Speaker 1: gets peppered in there, I think it's taken us a
Speaker 1: little bit off the main trail at this point, and
Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it. I don't
Speaker 1: have this conversation with a lot of people. But you've
Speaker 1: mentioned the LDS a couple of times, You've mentioned religion
Speaker 1: a couple of times. I want to ask you how
Speaker 1: you as a researcher who is very much into this subject. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in your mouth. It
Speaker 1: seems like you believe these creatures exist. How do you,
Speaker 1: as a researcher and someone who's had experiences and now
Speaker 1: are going down the rabbit hole in this research? How
Speaker 1: are you meshing the two of those things when it
Speaker 1: comes to your religious beliefs and the subject of bigfoot?
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that just personally and as an
Speaker 1: investigator or a researcher looking into the subject, and stay tuned
Speaker 1: for more Sasquatch out to see. We'll be right back
Speaker 1: after these messages.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. So obviously, I believe that
Speaker 3: God created everything. So really there's two ways to go
Speaker 3: about it, because I'm very firm in my beliefs. Like
Speaker 3: I said, I believe God created everything. So in essence,
Speaker 3: it's either going to be that God created sasquatch, that's
Speaker 3: just one of his creation that's on the earth and
Speaker 3: we just have yet to discover it, which is perfectly
Speaker 3: possible and it wouldn't shock me in the slightest or
Speaker 3: it could be there's just so many strange things that
Speaker 3: occur in so many sasquatch encounters that there's a lot
Speaker 3: of stories that I've heard of where people will just
Speaker 3: immediately they see a sasquatch, they immediately kneel down, they
Speaker 3: say a prayer. It doesn't even have to be part
Speaker 3: of the LDS Church, but just any faith in general.
Speaker 3: I've heard so many stories where people immediately just get
Speaker 3: on their knees, they say a prayer. When they open
Speaker 3: their eyes, sasquatch is gone. So there's certain aspects of
Speaker 3: that might not be completely accurate. If I'm a predator
Speaker 3: and something all of a sudden gets down to be
Speaker 3: really small and less intimidating, if I'm hungry, I'm going
Speaker 3: to go up and take it out, especially if it
Speaker 3: closes its eyes. Just take a big stick, whack. There
Speaker 3: you go. You got dinner, not just all of a
Speaker 3: sudden disappear. So there's things like that. There's the eye
Speaker 3: glow again. It could just be an aspect of a
Speaker 3: sasquatch that we just have yet to discover or understand
Speaker 3: in science. But there's just all these little nuanced things
Speaker 3: that just seem too far out of the realm of science,
Speaker 3: not way outlandish. Oh, there's a sasquatch jumping off a
Speaker 3: UFO being chased by a dog man just outside of
Speaker 3: the realm of science where it's like we can't quite
Speaker 3: fully understand or grasp that, and it's not completely explainable
Speaker 3: through scientific means. But if you mess the scientific and
Speaker 3: the spiritual or religious aspect of it together, then it
Speaker 3: explains the full story, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: We both mentioned dog Man a couple of times. Let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about other cryptids. Where are you
Speaker 1: on your research and looking into other cryptids? Maybe you don't,
Speaker 1: but obviously dog Man is the other big thing that
Speaker 1: comes up. I personally, I've said it plenty of times.
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time with believing that dog
Speaker 1: Men exists outside of being something spiritual, demonic, interdimensional, extraterrestrial,
Speaker 1: because in my opinion, there's no terrestrial anatomical being that
Speaker 1: would make sense with the way that people describe it.
Speaker 1: We're talking about a six to seven foot sometimes eight
Speaker 1: foot tall, bipedal, half man, half dog creature.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Obviously, Bigfoot seems to have always been the king of cryptids,
Speaker 1: if you will, and in a category in and of itself,
Speaker 1: because it is something that even for non believers or
Speaker 1: skeptical people, even cynical people can look at something like
Speaker 1: a sasquatch and say, okay, we have gorillas. We have
Speaker 1: silver backed gorillas, have large primates, orangutans are pretty large.
Speaker 1: They can get pretty big. So they can look at
Speaker 1: that and say, okay, Gigantopithecus Blackie was a part of
Speaker 1: our bushy family tree. They point to that and say, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe it's that or an australopitheesceene that we can look
Speaker 1: at in our limited fossil record and say that's a possibility.
Speaker 1: But dog Man just doesn't make sense to me. Have
Speaker 1: you looked into other cryptids, maybe like dog Man or
Speaker 1: chupacabra or some of these other wild and weird things
Speaker 1: that people see and experience. Where are you on that?
Speaker 1: Do you believe it falls in the same category somehow
Speaker 1: with bigfoot? Or do you think that those are misidentifications
Speaker 1: People are seeing other things? Where are you on dog
Speaker 1: Man and the other cryptids?
Speaker 3: So as a whole, lumping sasquatch in with that what
Speaker 3: you just said with misidentifications, I think a large majority
Speaker 3: of dog Man, sasquatch, and other cryptid encounters are just misidentifications.
Speaker 3: Like bear stand up on two let if you see
Speaker 3: a bear's head, it can resemble a wolf's head. At
Speaker 3: a distance, so you see a bear standing on two legs,
Speaker 3: it might look like half man, half wolf thing hiding
Speaker 3: behind a tree looking at you. I think a large
Speaker 3: majority of encounters that people believe they have are just misidentifications.
Speaker 3: But I also think that there's at the very least
Speaker 3: a small percentage that are legitimate encounters with other cryptids.
Speaker 3: So with dog Man specifically, I personally believe that's more
Speaker 3: of a spiritual entity than an actual physical entity. And
Speaker 3: my reason behind that is because all the stories I've
Speaker 3: heard of dog Man, people get an immediately evil feeling,
Speaker 3: just like it's an evil entity that's there. And anytime
Speaker 3: I've heard stories like out at Skinwalker Ranch or areas
Speaker 3: near Skinwalker Ranch. I don't know if you've heard many
Speaker 3: stories about Skinwalker Ranch, but that's here in Utah on
Speaker 3: the High Uintas. There's a lot of sasquatch and cryptid
Speaker 3: encounter out there along with UFOs, and there have been
Speaker 3: dog Man sightings out there in that area. And there
Speaker 3: are people who shot at dog Man. They know they
Speaker 3: hit its. They're good marks then, and it doesn't phase
Speaker 3: it no tough to fur, pops up, It doesn't take
Speaker 3: a step back, doesn't go running off because it got shot.
Speaker 3: It just keeps doing what it's doing. So I think
Speaker 3: that dog Man is an evil, spiritual entity. Now again,
Speaker 3: I don't have evidence for that. That's just my belief
Speaker 3: based on the research that I've done, which is limited
Speaker 3: research because I focus more on Sasquatch than anything else.
Speaker 3: And then skin walkers, I also believe are a spiritual entity,
Speaker 3: hence why they can seem to transform from an animal
Speaker 3: to a person or that person to an animal. And
Speaker 3: I have done very little research on skinwalkers, but I
Speaker 3: will tell you that I never talked about skinwalkers when
Speaker 3: I'm in the woods night. I do not want anything
Speaker 3: like that showing up at my door because that would
Speaker 3: freak the heck out of me. I also feel like
Speaker 3: a lot of other cryptids that people see, and I
Speaker 3: don't know if this is the same for you, but
Speaker 3: I've noticed that there's all these very specific stories, and
Speaker 3: you were talking about the legend of Boggy Creek. There's other
Speaker 3: creatures across the United States. They're very specific to certain locations.
Speaker 3: I've noticed that in all the stories, or at least
Speaker 3: many of the stories about those creatures, they are very
Speaker 3: similar to sasquatch. They make similar noises, they're similar in size,
Speaker 3: they're similar in color, similar in shape. There's just like
Speaker 3: slight variations in whatever it might be. So I think
Speaker 3: a lot of those other cryptids out there are actually
Speaker 3: people just misidentifying whatever they're seeing, thinking it's something else,
Speaker 3: and it's actually a sasquatch. I was talking to my
Speaker 3: friend about the lizard Man down in the South. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you've heard anything about Lizardman before, and
Speaker 3: I haven't done a whole lot of research into it,
Speaker 3: but he was saying that down in the South, because
Speaker 3: the water is so marshy and swampy, wizardman appears to
Speaker 3: be green and slimy. If you think about a sasquatch
Speaker 3: with all their fur walking through super swampy areas, they're
Speaker 3: going to pick up a lot of moths on their
Speaker 3: fur as they're walking around. So someone happens to see
Speaker 3: a sasquatch that's covered in moss after just steps out
Speaker 3: of a bog, that might look like a slimy reptilian
Speaker 3: thing standing there. Again, that's not fact, but there's a
Speaker 3: lot of similarities between sasquatch and these other cryptids, and
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people when they encounter
Speaker 3: these other cryptids are actually encountering a sasquatch or misidentifying
Speaker 3: something that is there. But I do think that at
Speaker 3: the very least, skin walkers and dog men are spiritual beings.
Speaker 3: How they play into everything, I couldn't tell you, but
Speaker 3: just based on what I can understand from the people
Speaker 3: I've talked to, they seem more spiritual than physical.
Speaker 1: Did you miss anything as far as your theories about
Speaker 1: Bigfoot that you wanted to talk about.
Speaker 3: No, not that I'm aware of. I think I was
Speaker 3: able to pretty much cover all my theories, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure you're gonna have a ton of people comment is
Speaker 3: wrong because of this or that, which I just want
Speaker 3: to say, I'm not claiming to be right. I have
Speaker 3: no idea. It's just what makes the most sense to
Speaker 3: me based on my experience, is my research, and my
Speaker 3: personal beliefs in Christ and how the world was made
Speaker 3: and all that. So I could be completely wrong. There's
Speaker 3: a very good chance that it's just an undiscovered creature
Speaker 3: that's out in the woods, that's another one of God's creations.
Speaker 3: If that's the case, then great, But just based on
Speaker 3: my encounters and my beliefs and my experiences. That's how
Speaker 3: I've come to the conclusion or at least the belief
Speaker 3: that Sasquatch is part of the human family, just cursed
Speaker 3: and separated from the human family.
Speaker 1: It's just like you said earlier. That's what keeps me
Speaker 1: coming back to the world. That's why we keep having
Speaker 1: conversations like this, because honestly, nobody knows. Every thing about
Speaker 1: this subject is subjective, maybe except for the encounters that
Speaker 1: people have. I had my own experiences last year. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I got to see these things three times
Speaker 1: in two days, so I am one hundred percent convinced
Speaker 1: that they're real. Still not sure exactly what they are
Speaker 1: and how they're able to do some of the things
Speaker 1: that they're able to do. It's like we've had these
Speaker 1: conversations before. It seems like they're the biggest, baddest, fastest,
Speaker 1: they're all of the above things. They're like the Superman
Speaker 1: of the cryptid world. And that is what I have
Speaker 1: a really hard time with. If people experience what they say,
Speaker 1: the experience with these things and just my limited experience
Speaker 1: with them, something that big, being that close to me
Speaker 1: and being that silent in the woods is a scary thought.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that happened. This thing had glowing
Speaker 1: white eyes. Not sure how that happened. So I am
Speaker 1: open and honest about my experiences. Frankly, I listen to
Speaker 1: everybody's experiences and everybody's opinions, because I think once you
Speaker 1: close that door and you just stick to one lane
Speaker 1: and just keep dry and as fast as you can,
Speaker 1: you never learn anything after that. I always listen to
Speaker 1: other people's experiences and their encounters and their theories what
Speaker 1: they believe these things might be, because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, we don't know anything. But as we listen
Speaker 1: to each other and work together to try to solve
Speaker 1: the mystery, they may be a combination of all of
Speaker 1: these things. But you have to be open to that.
Speaker 1: I challenge everybody listening right now, and everybody who ever
Speaker 1: listens to the show to do that, because there's so
Speaker 1: many people stuck in the flesh and blood camp. There's
Speaker 1: so many people in the WU camp, and they never
Speaker 1: want to talk and have a conversation. I think we
Speaker 1: can do both. I think we can both go down
Speaker 1: those roads and those rabbit holes, and you approach it
Speaker 1: from a very spiritual point of view and your research
Speaker 1: and looking into the subject, and we all come together
Speaker 1: and have a conversation about it. That's where the learning
Speaker 1: happens as far as I'm concerned. Before we get out
Speaker 1: of here, let's talk about your YouTube channel. Tell everybody
Speaker 1: what they can expect when they go over and check
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 3: So I haven't put any Sasquad content on my YouTube
Speaker 3: channel yet, probably will, but in my YouTube channel is
Speaker 3: Wasatch Mountains Fishing. I am a huge fisherman. I do
Speaker 3: lots of fishing here in Utah. I just started a
Speaker 3: YouTube channel earlier this year, doing a bunch of different
Speaker 3: fishing videos, just trying to share what I love, share
Speaker 3: tips and tricks. So a little bit of a side
Speaker 3: gig to share what I love with other people.
Speaker 1: That's what it's all about, folks. I will link to
Speaker 1: it right here in the show notes. You guys, go
Speaker 1: over and show them some love on YouTube. Tucker, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. I've had a blast.
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to
Speaker 3: talk to me. Because not a lot of people are
Speaker 3: willing to reach out and talk to other people about this,
Speaker 3: like you were saying, and it's important for us to
Speaker 3: come together and bridge those gaps. Because no one knows
Speaker 3: what Sasquatch is. No one knows what any of these
Speaker 3: cryptids are. It's important for us to talk and keep
Speaker 3: an open mind so that way we can hopefully one
Speaker 3: day solve this mystery.
Speaker 4: They say, you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.
Speaker 4: World openside, step side.
Speaker 5: Trying this job, that chid everything, Call me ride back
Speaker 5: right back, joy for.
Speaker 3: Me, enjoy staying right there.
Speaker 5: Come it right away and stays stas Sissie sat still
Speaker 5: stuff not USS games still, STEELSSSSTS things
Speaker 3: Used THESS