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Speaker 1: The best way to support softcore History is by going

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dollars a month you will get eight extra episodes a month,

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plus an entire three year evergreen back catalog of content

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stuff with no expiration date on it. It's all history,

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it doesn't expire, so it's just hours upon hours, days

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months of content for five dollars a month that includes

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kinds of fun stuff. Patreon dot com slash softcore History.

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If you can't support us that way, please like and

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leave a review on Apple that helps us a ton,

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and give us five stars on Spotify if you listen

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on Spotify.

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Speaker 2: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and Coalition forces

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are in the early stages of military operations to disarmour Rack,

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to free its people, and to defend the world from

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grave danger. On my orders, Coalition forces have begun striking

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selected targets of military importance to under Saddam Hussein's ability

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to wage war. These are opening stages of what will

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be a broad and concerted campaign.

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Speaker 1: On this week's episode, we are doing something a little different.

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We have special guest Jack Mandeville, a veteran of Operation

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Iraqi Freedom, the invasion of Iraq in two thousand and three.

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Jack is the host of jacked History on YouTube. Please

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go check that out. I've linked it in the show

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description as well. But Jack, we're gonna be instead of

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talking about history, we're gonna be interviewing someone who went

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through history about going through history. So enjoy this episode

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with me, Dan and Jack Mandevil of jack History on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Softcore History.

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Speaker 1: What is up? Welcome back to Softcore History. I am

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your host for the week, Rob Fox, joined as always

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by Dan Rejester.

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Speaker 3: Always a pleasure to be on the show.

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Speaker 1: Rob. Yeah, good to be back. Good to be back.

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And today we don't have any history to talk about.

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We have history to talk to. Oh yeah, Jack Mandeville

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is here. And we're not talking about some medieval knight

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who has the record for molesting girls in towns he

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pillaged or anything like that. We're talking about Well, I

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guess the towns you pillaged?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Did? Some did not? Some not? Not medieval style pillaging, yeah,

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not the raping and burning, but right, definitely grabbed a

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few tokens along the way. Yeah, it'd been a long

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time since the American forces had invaded a country pricens Vietnam,

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so our pillaging itch was in full.

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Speaker 1: It's been a while while. It's been a while because

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today we have Jack Manville on the show, veteran of

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Operation Iraqi Freedom.

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Speaker 4: And I was a member of the Kiss Army two.

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But that's a different episode.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and there was pillaging in that one in

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the old school style, but we won't talk about that today.

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I don't know if the Statute of Limitations is up

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on that. But we wanted to have Jack on for

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two reasons. One, we've never had anyone on the show

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who has been involved in a historical event. And two,

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Dan just started watching Generation Kill.

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Speaker 4: Yep, that's a good series.

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Speaker 3: I binged it. I think in a week.

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Speaker 4: That's one of those things, is it. It wasn't a banger.

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It wasn't Band of Brothers or anything like that. House

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of Cards or whatever. Huse of Dragons. It wasn't a banger,

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but it will always hold up well.

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Speaker 3: Young Scars Guard Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: That had a pretty impressive cast and Rudy Reyes playing himself.

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Speaker 1: Peak Kellen Lutz, Twilight Kellen Lutz I mean just the

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hits go on with that.

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Speaker 3: But it was for sure a show that I think

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really nailed how dudes talk to each other.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think we know whether or not you were

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in the army, like if you played football in high.

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Speaker 4: School, or you're ever in a locker room.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like anything like that. It is the best,

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maybe the best male dialogue I have ever heard in

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my life. Like if you are a of the three

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women listening to the show and you want to know

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how it sounds when.

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Speaker 3: Guys talk to each other behind closed doors, Yeah, that

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generation kill.

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Speaker 1: I mean, on the fucking mark.

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Speaker 4: It was done by the guys that did The Wire,

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and anybody that knows anything about that kind of East

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Coast law enforcement will tell you that The Wires the

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most accurate cop show ever. So same goes. I was

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never gonna watch it because it was so personal to me,

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and I was familiar with the Rolling Stones article that

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led to the book that obviously led to the series.

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But I was like, they're gonna, they're gonna fuck this up,

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and a friend of mine convinced me to watch it.

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I watched it, and I was like, this is the

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most fucking accurate war movie. Ever, Yeah, none of that

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flowery romantic language of why we're fighting. It's literally a bunch.

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Speaker 1: Of Even though I love the movie Fury, I assume

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that no one has ever in war been like there's

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still more killing to do, the still more dying to do.

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Speaker 4: Best job overhead, Like, yeah, saying that on ironically, it's

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probably been very rare. People have actually said, right, right.

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Speaker 3: BK burger king some baby killers? Yeah, yeah, why do

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they keep calling them burger king?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, everything was like the fucking the j Lo. Right,

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that was real that the way that they focused so

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much on a rumor was so important to the reality

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of that series. Like, that's something that we were all

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stressed out about. And that was before we didn't have

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Wi Fi or anything like that. You just we just

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were hearing stuff and it and literally it's all we

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could talk about. As we're about to invade a country.

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All we could talk about was j loo. Uh.

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Speaker 1: What's really funny too. What I love about the show

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before we get into talking about your shit, is this

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is more of a show, but you write. You're a

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writer as well. I actually recently watched some of your

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episodes of was It Checkpoint Charlie.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I I didn't write that, but I would say

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it was written I co created. Okay, Yeah, we outlined

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the episodes, but Greg Kelly did most of the legwork writing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And before you get into it, Rob, is it true

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that you guys would never carry those like charm candies?

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Speaker 4: That's true, yep. And I'll never forget the first time

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because no one ever told me when I was in

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boot camp or my infantry. I didn't learn until I

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got to the fleet. And I got to the fleet

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literally like fourteen days before we crossed the border. I

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checked in with my unit in Kuwait as we were

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fixed to go into that country. And I'll never forget

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I I literally had my NCO grab it out of

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my hands and throw it off the vehicle and lectured

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me about not eating charms.

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Speaker 1: That was a real thing.

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Speaker 3: That goes back to World War two or something. It's

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just like a bad luck omen to Yeah, those on

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your person at all times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just one. It's just one of those things that

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existed before I got there. That's that's really funny. I

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don't think they put those things in MRIs anymore. I

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think that, Yeah, why would they even still be this

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it's an extinct product.

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Speaker 1: One thing I love about that show, though, from a

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or whatever standpoint, is because you know a lot of

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times and I've dealt with this, like when I've worked

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with like my writing partner who I love, but and

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you deal with this when you talk to like people

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who are like higher up who are like linking your

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scripts and stuff like that, and they're like, oh, like

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you know, like where's the lost all hope moment? And

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you got to hit these story beats and stuff like that.

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Generation kill, nothing happens. It just shows them for seven hours.

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Speaker 4: Bullshitting' a couple of firefights here and there.

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Speaker 1: Like there's no story arc, there's no resolution to anything.

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Speaker 4: There's no music.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you literally they just.

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Speaker 3: Come in, well they sing yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: You come in at one point and you watch them

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for a while and then it's over and it's so

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fucking good to the point where I just watched that

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and look, it's hard to do. Like typically you do

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have to hit story beats because people are dumb and

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they like to see the same things and they like patterns.

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But I just like watching that, I was just like

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this is great, Like this is almost like bro asmr

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like it's just like it's just like, if you want

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us make it sound like you're just sitting in a

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room full of friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it does conclude, right, they conquer Iraq in

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twenty one days and then they're just kind of sitting

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in bagdad figuring out what to do. That was the war,

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didn't We didn't win. We just kind of stayed.

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Speaker 1: Thought we did, like, oh, I'll never have to come

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back here again.

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Speaker 4: Evan Wright who wrote the book, and I believe he

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did the the screenplay as well or contributed to it.

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Brilliant rip. Evan Wright. Yeah, he passed away recently. Uh

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he he really does open the book up well basically,

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you know, the appropriate title was Generation Killed. But it

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really does capture the older millennial age group during that

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time very well. Like, these are kids. They didn't grow

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up reading Dick Tracy novels like your grandparents did. They

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grew up playing grand theft auto and learning to beat

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up fucking hookers and video games.

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Speaker 1: Watching like Beads and now yes.

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Speaker 4: And now they're at war. Right, they are so much

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more desensitized than previous generation. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get into We're just gonna run through

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fucking I got questions for you, and I'm sure a

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million questions will pop up in the meantime, but let's

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get this out of the way actually first, before we

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get into your you know, you're US marine, uh, first

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first Marine Division, all that stuff. We'll get into more

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stuff about that, but I just I gotta get this

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other way because you texted me about it last night,

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and I just I'm not gonna able to move on

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until we talk about this first. What was the most

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fucked up thing you saw during the invasion, dude.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if I want to without Okay, just

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it is. I I saw a lot of dead, burning bodies.

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Speaker 3: Man Again, don't rattle the PTSD.

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Speaker 4: Yeah no, but like talk about the desensitized thing he

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texted me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask. I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't have

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been on here if he hadn't.

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Speaker 3: I was with me this.

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Speaker 4: Because I was drinking and I was having a therapy

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such because you got I. I blocked that out of

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my head for probably like twelve thirteen years, and then

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one day in twenty seventeen, I was just driving down

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the road, just having a normal day, and that memory

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flooded back out of nowhere, and I was like, oh, fuck,

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that happened. That's that happened. I have not thought about

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this in years. Uh No, it's weird. I saw a

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lot of death and all that, as you do, and

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I never lost sleep over that. I never never had

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any issues. And then I saw a kid getting diddled

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and it it was so it was so bad that

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obviously my brain blocked that out for years. And I

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get it now. Remember that he was like a graduate

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assistant or something, or an assistant coach for Penn State.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the redheaded dude.

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Speaker 4: I forget that. He's the one that saw that kid

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getting molested and he did the right thing. He reported it,

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and then a lot of people gave him ship, like

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why didn't he follow up with that? Why didn't he

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ask questions? Right? I can understand how his brain might

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have fucking blocked that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like it just like does that does not compute? Yeah, cannot, Like.

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Speaker 4: You're just gonna shove that in the back.

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Speaker 1: You're just driving down the road and somebody's just like

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sawing a homeless man up. Yeah, you know what I mean,

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You're probably just gonna be like, that's not real. I'm

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not remembering it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw that in a movie Mike mcquerie depends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. He did everything right and what he took ship for.

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I can completely understand how he might have his brain

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might have just shut that memory out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. So one thing

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I love about talking to you about this, now that

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that's out of the way, Yeah, is that?

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Speaker 4: Yah, So that's the most fucked up thing I've ever

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seen in my life. It was. It was so fucked up,

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just in a ditch. No, just on the side of

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the road. Man, I don't even want to go into detail.

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It was just and you gotta understand it. I wasn't

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the only one that saw that. We all kind of

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looked at each other. No one ever spoke of it. Again,

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its fucking can see.

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Speaker 1: So I'll actually have a point on that later.

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Speaker 4: That was into crit I remember what city that was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all back now, it's all yeah, I could

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I could take you to that road right right now.

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Speaker 4: That was Saddam Hussein's hometown. A bunch of child molesters

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and Baptists.

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Speaker 1: But you repeat yourself, yeah, yeah, So this is one

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thing I like talking to you about So I've met

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other Iraq veterans, and actually Dan Hallway is a history

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buff as well, but I haven't asked him this question.

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Speaker 4: But I don't.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I haven't talked a lot of vets

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who are necessarily history buffs. You're a history buff, and

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you were a history buff before the war certainly too. Oh,

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I grew up right, right, so that coming naturally to me.

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I suppose even though the Iraq War had, like still

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has big ramifications on the world and stuff like that,

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it's not a major historical war in the grand scheme

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of things, not compared to Normandy or World War One

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or even like the I don't say, the Pelponnesian, the

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Punic Wars something, you know what I mean, Like, it's

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a minor conflict in the grand scale.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when we had other other major nations as our

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allies and adversaries, right, yeah, we had who do we

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have with us? The Brits and the to the Salvadorians, yeah,

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the Coalition and the Polish guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, mostly the Brits. I guess next you

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have a question on them later. But so I wonder

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what did you think, if anything, going into the war,

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Like what do you think a good comp for the

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Iraq Wars? So to me, I always think, even though

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it's kind of a different political circumstance, I always kind

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of think of it as just like almost the equivalent

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of like English colonial wars against like the Zulus or

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something like that, You know what I mean, Like, it's

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obviously major combat and terrifying combat, and yeah, it's a

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real fight. It's not like we.

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Speaker 3: Had such an advantage with technology.

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Speaker 4: You O three. Yeah, yeah, we were had to complete

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upper hand.

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Speaker 1: But like, what did you think about what type of

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war it was going in, because obviously, like you said, like,

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you're not fighting in World War two, You're not like

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it's it's a it's a it's a smaller conflict.

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Speaker 3: Than that you're fighting dudes in pajama Did you think.

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Speaker 1: About it in terms of, like, oh, this is more

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like this war from history than it is like Napoleon

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at Waterloo or something like that.

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Speaker 4: Well, you're right, it would have been closer to like

297
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a Zulu war, colonial conflict type of thing. I've thought

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of this though the fighting obviously is completely different. But

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if I had to compare the Iraq War to any

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other war in American history, I would compare it to

301
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in the big picture, I'd compared it to the Korean War.

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And this is why, similar to the Korean War, Americans

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at the beginning, they did during the invasion, people were

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glued to their TVs from what I understand, But after that,

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nobody really gave a shit. Everyone kind of forgot we

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had people over there, and it never affected the quality

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of life in America. Like World War two, people had

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to ration, everybody had to do their.

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Speaker 1: Part two and the Civil War like that affected the

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home fronts.

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Speaker 4: The home front where you know, Korea, like Iraq. Nothing

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changed back home, and eventually people kind of forgot we

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were over there doing that every once in a while

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to make the news with Fallujah or the surge, but

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other than that, yeah, like.

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Speaker 1: Every two three years, because I remember so their invasion

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happened when I was a junior in high school. Yeah,

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and then Fallujah was I think my freshman year of college,

319
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so I remember that like rolling back up in the

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news a lot. And Fallujah was a you know, horrific

321
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battle and everything that was huge, but that was the

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largest urban operation since that was a big battle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But even still, what's crazy about that is that was

325
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a big battle, but like it was still kind of

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small historically, like in terms of sheer numbers, horrific combat

327
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and everything like that. But is it just interesting to

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me because you know, you see, it's not like it's

329
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not like Stalingrad, Right, it's not like some crazy.

330
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Speaker 3: It's not random Chinese War number two.

331
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Speaker 4: No, Yeah, it's it's not fifty thousand Chinese guy running

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at with bayonets over a hill to your you know, yeah,

333
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battalion's worth of soldiers or.

334
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Speaker 1: Does history come into your mind at all as a

335
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history buff as you're like thinking about getting ready or

336
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is it even or.

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Speaker 4: At the time, literally, all I had to go off

338
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of of what that kind of combat might look like

339
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was Blackhawk Down had just come out, So that's the

340
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way I was imagining it might be. Yeah, And in

341
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certain parts of that war it was like that. Yeah,

342
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I didn't experience that during the invasion, right, we were

343
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for the most part rural until we got into Baghdad

344
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and then we did Task Force Triple in a decret there.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of something the Hammer and Generation kill is

346
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they never really feel like they're in danger during the invasion.

347
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They almost feel invincible.

348
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I had my perspective, and again I

349
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was I was three months out of boot camp, like

350
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I literally got done with boot camp, went to my

351
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infantry school, did another school, and literally graduated from that school,

352
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got on a plane and landed in Quate like March sixth,

353
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and then we went over like March twentieth. So I

354
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barely knew who the people in my chain of command were.

355
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I had so h it might as well have been

356
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a giant training mission to me because I had no

357
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context of what war was supposed to be.

358
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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, dude, so one thing is so actually real

359
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quick before I get it, you mentioned something about how

360
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people it didn't affect the home front or whatever, and

361
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people would I don't know if I've told you this.

362
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I think I've said this on the show before. My

363
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experience with the invasion of Iraq was the first time

364
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I realized that I lived in the future that I

365
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lived in.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's like a like almost benevolent kind of dystopian.

368
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Speaker 3: Just watching combat footage because I.

369
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Speaker 1: Was homesick that week. And it's March twentieth when the

370
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invasion happened. So and I'm a history buff two, right,

371
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so I think history is on television right now. So

372
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I'm watching it, but it was shocking off first, right.

373
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So I'm watching it, I'm seeing stuff and I'm like, oh,

374
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it's not a lot going on right now. So I

375
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just flip over to college basketball because it was the

376
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conference tournaments. It was like the Big Ten Tournament, the

377
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Big Twelve Tournament. And I was just like, I am

378
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,640
sitting in my basement flipping between a war and college

379
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,480
basketball when there's no good war stuff on. Yeah, like that.

380
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,839
Even in the moment, I was like, this is fucking insane.

381
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Speaker 3: You had that perspective as a teenager, I swear to

382
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god I did.

383
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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I was answer about. I was like, this

384
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is crazy.

385
00:18:18,279 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 3: I was like twelve, So no, I didn't. I was

386
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I didn't think that way.

387
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Speaker 1: I was seventeen. I didn't. I didn't say you thought

388
00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:25,480
that way, but like that to me, like, and you're right,

389
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,119
it didn't affect at all. I was like, the war's

390
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,440
boring right now. I think Michigan's in overtime. Let's go

391
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,279
to that game. Let's go yeah, yeah, watch that for

392
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a little while. And I was just like watching that,

393
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I was just like, this country might be invincible.

394
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean crazy The only thing that really was

395
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,400
a giant obstacle to us was the weather at times. Yeah,

396
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,839
there was the biggest sandstorm in twenty thirty years in Iraq.

397
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Occurred when we were probably day three or four, and

398
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:53,880
it stopped the entire division.

399
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,559
Speaker 3: Do they call those haboobsh.

400
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 4: I think it's called a shemal? And yeah, that put

401
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,599
us dead in our tracks for probably twenty four hours

402
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,039
or more.

403
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Speaker 1: How fucking shitty was that sitting in a sandstorre.

404
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 4: Oh, it was horrible. You couldn't see in front of

405
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,119
your you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.

406
00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:16,880
We had dudes get lost, Kylie. I was just with

407
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,880
a bunch of my old marine buddies not long ago,

408
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,599
and one of them was telling a story about how

409
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:25,680
they got lost. They ended up they ran into a

410
00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:27,920
vehicle in another company, which you, by the way, you

411
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,440
don't know anybody else in any other company, right, you

412
00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:32,359
might as well just be a fucking guy off the street,

413
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:34,480
even though you're on the same side. So they had

414
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,960
to like hunker down with these random marines. It was

415
00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:39,839
like the ghetto version of the Normandy Invasion where they

416
00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:41,440
all dropped into different.

417
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck and I assume like just sand

418
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is up every fucking every crevice.

419
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Speaker 4: And I was. I was a driver in an lav

420
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,359
so I could at least like kind of button myself

421
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,480
inside the vehicle, and it was still covering the inside

422
00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:57,720
of the vehicle and everywhere.

423
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to drop your pants and take a

424
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,039
deuce during the storm.

425
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:03,519
Speaker 4: Or oh, uh, you know what was.

426
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Speaker 3: The worst poop you had to take during the war.

427
00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 4: I'll tell you. I was thinking about this in the

428
00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:12,319
car right over talk about memories flooding back I when

429
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,960
we got to Kuwait, you know you're doing all that

430
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,960
long travel, you're uh your p I was, we were

431
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,200
probably stressed and for various reasons. And then now you're

432
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,440
eating this kind of You went from having burger king

433
00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:30,079
at the p X back of Camp Penalton to now

434
00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:32,920
you're eating nothing but this processed shit food.

435
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: And I didn't ship.

436
00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 4: The first dump I took was literally the night before

437
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,960
the invasion happened, and I I was on watch, so

438
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,799
I had we had to It was it was me

439
00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:45,960
and my buddy Nick. We had to watch the entire

440
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,359
battalion's ammo. All the AMMO was stacked up in the

441
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,519
middle of the desert and it was just two pfc's

442
00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:54,519
out there guarding it, and I took a gigantic dump,

443
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,000
uh because I hadn't shit in like four or five days.

444
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It was painful, it was horrible. And then the next day,

445
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,000
literally the same place I took a dump is where

446
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:06,559
my vehicle had to grab all of its AMMO from

447
00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:08,599
And my doochie was sitting there right next to the

448
00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:12,079
AMMO boxes, and all the my scouts in the back,

449
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,960
the three eleven's, they were all like, what the fuck

450
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:17,920
are gross? I don't know, man, I could could have

451
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,160
been from a fox or something.

452
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,039
Speaker 1: Who knows, Like that was like, goddamn cougar that did that?

453
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,400
Ye lions out here?

454
00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, just out there in the middle of nowhere. I

455
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,240
remember I jerked off that night well while I was

456
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,720
holding the uh forget what they're called. It's not the envg's,

457
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:36,599
it's the one, yeah, the single one. I was just

458
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:41,519
sitting there maning my post, jerking off. Uh uh yeah.

459
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:43,559
And that was after I dumped it, cleared everything up.

460
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,680
I got horny again.

461
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 3: And how often would you combat jerk?

462
00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:51,759
Speaker 4: So from uh, I'll from the actual start of the invasion,

463
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,640
I didn't. I didn't jerk until things had calmed down,

464
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,480
like three over three weeks later.

465
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Speaker 3: Okay, was it just common place to see one of

466
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,960
your fellow soldiers just jacket?

467
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you'd see people jacking. Yeah, And then I don't

468
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,119
know how to describe an lav but I kind of

469
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,319
had the front all to myself for the drivers. It's

470
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,160
only it's the only real privacy inside that vehicle. I

471
00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:15,559
you kind of have your own little alone area there,

472
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:17,920
but you can see the turret behind you, so then

473
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,519
you can see people jerking it in the turret. And

474
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,079
I had one of my scouts. His nickname was I

475
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:26,319
don't know if I want to say it's the nickname.

476
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,680
I actually did a documentary about him recently. People hight

477
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:33,000
know who I'm talking about, but uh, he he would,

478
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,200
he'd always I'd see him coming out of my driver's hole.

479
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,160
This is back when you'd have polaroid pictures of your

480
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,000
girl back home. And again, you know, it's one of

481
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,240
those things that that's the driver's hole, that's their space,

482
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:47,319
that's that was my kingdom. And so that got that,

483
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,319
you know, got a couple of fights started from that,

484
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,359
like what the fuck? You sick? Fuck? Yeah?

485
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, what so one thing that's funny me, not funny,

486
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,680
but like about the the second and Asian of Iraq,

487
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,920
like the Second Persian Golf War whatever, if you remember

488
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,960
before the first one, just like historically, if you remember

489
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,559
before the first one, I feel like America was like,

490
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,359
we don't know how this is gonna go, Like remember Tsaddami,

491
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,359
same was like it's gonna be the mother of all battles.

492
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,359
I think at the time, Iraq had like the fifth

493
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,519
largest army the world.

494
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:19,079
Speaker 4: Yeah they did, I mean it was. It was horribly funded,

495
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:20,480
but they were huge.

496
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and number of Soviet tank older but Soviet tanks

497
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,599
and stuff like that, huge tank divisions. And America I

498
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,039
feel like, was kind of bracing itself for a bloody fight,

499
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:35,839
right like really in ninety one, and that didn't happen. Obviously,

500
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,119
they rolled over the Iraqi.

501
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 4: Complete upper hand.

502
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: Ye, what was was there? What was the expectation going

503
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:45,000
in in three for you guys? Because I feel like

504
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:48,000
even like documentaries stuff I've watched about the first Iraq War,

505
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,599
they they were like, yeah, they told us, man, it

506
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,000
was gonna be fucking like intense. It was to be crazy,

507
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,119
like expect a lot of casualties and stuff like that,

508
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,480
and then we got in there and it was easier

509
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,160
than a training mission. Yeah, what was what was the

510
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:02,519
I assume because the first one had already happened, that

511
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,599
wasn't necessarily the expectation going in for round two. But

512
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,599
what was like the expectation of com like combat expectations

513
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,000
or the type of like resistance you would see.

514
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 4: I remember when we kind of knew we were going

515
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,799
over there. Now you gotta understand too, I did. I

516
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:21,119
was probably seven years old when Desert Storm happened. So

517
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:23,799
that's some of my earliest memories of Yeah, watching a

518
00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:27,480
war myself. But you gotta understand. Remember in the nineties,

519
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,240
we did a bunch of build ups over there, and

520
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,440
it was supposed to happen, and yeah, the Clinton you

521
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,200
know flex and we had done a big build up

522
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,759
and I think ninety seven, ninety eight, and nothing came

523
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,839
of that. So in my head, speaking purely for myself,

524
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:44,720
I thought there was a big possibility it was going

525
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:46,680
to be that again. We were just didn't even got

526
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,799
a flex aur nuts at the Kuwaiti border, and then

527
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,960
nothing was going to come of it. I remember when

528
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,759
we the invasion actually kicked off. I was actually probably

529
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:57,480
a little surprised it was happening.

530
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: But I remember if you, huh does that fuck with

531
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,599
you at all? We're like, oh good? Who I was?

532
00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: I can't express it enough. Had I been in the

533
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,319
Marine Corps even six more months or a year, I

534
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,920
probably would have had a completely different perception of what

535
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,319
was going on. I was so brand new. I literally

536
00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:21,240
did not have a brain. My brain didn't exist.

537
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,519
Speaker 3: You're just like, I guess we're doing this now?

538
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 4: Yes? Yeah, Like I'm literally like I'm just gonna do

539
00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:28,559
what I'm told. I wasn't. I wasn't super excited. I

540
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,440
wasn't like super scared. I wouldn't say numb was the

541
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,519
feeling that I had. But I I just I knew

542
00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:38,039
that I didn't know what the fuck.

543
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,519
Speaker 1: Was going on. Yeah, so I was just like going

544
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:42,559
with the flow. I feel like that's a good way

545
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:42,839
to be.

546
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 4: Ideally, Yeah right. I didn't overthink it or anything.

547
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: Like that, like a supposed to drive now that was it? Yeah,

548
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,440
just do my job now.

549
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 3: This is pretty coming with any job. Honestly, people kind

550
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,599
of bitch and complain about their superiors. Were they wildly

551
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,279
incompetent like they are portrayed in Generation Kill? I that.

552
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: By the way, the Generation Kill unit was like elite. Yeah,

553
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:07,079
the marine they were recalled, Yeah, they were. Uh, you know,

554
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,920
that's a thing that you get. You have to go

555
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,599
through a selection process for.

556
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:15,319
Speaker 1: Like the almost like the Marine's Army Rangers type of

557
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:16,519
or even more than that.

558
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 4: There's a lot of complexities to it.

559
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:20,559
Speaker 1: Uh.

560
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 4: They were some of the best trained, best equipped marines. Yeah,

561
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:31,000
most physically fits reconnaissance marines are notoriously like studs in

562
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:35,279
the water. They're just great swimmers. Yeah, so yes, they

563
00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:36,680
would have been. They would have been some of the

564
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:43,440
more elite marine troops out there. Uh. Mind you this

565
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:45,759
is is coming from the perception of his journalists, and

566
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,200
the only things he's hearing about the Marine Corps is

567
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:52,960
from e lower enlisted fives in below and they're always

568
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:59,839
gonna bitch. Yeah, so was the company staff as incompetent.

569
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,559
There might have been a little prejudice there coming from

570
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,839
the Evan Wright. H But you know, as I'm a

571
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,160
forty one year old man now and I now am

572
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,240
around the people that are in charge at these higher levels,

573
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,440
and a lot of them are just dudes who are

574
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:25,279
very capable of being fucked up, right right.

575
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:26,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, no.

576
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:27,599
Speaker 3: I think they kind of touch on that at the

577
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,839
end when the Godfather talks to Evan and says, hey,

578
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,720
I hear this from somebody, but I hear this from

579
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:37,680
somebody else. You gotta kind of just take it with

580
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,359
a grain of salt.

581
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not easy to be in charge of seven

582
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:42,039
hundred people.

583
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: And death twenty one year old.

584
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's that's not an easy position to be

585
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:50,039
in for anybody. Some people handle it better than others.

586
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, but from your experience, though.

587
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 4: Not in my company, we were a pretty well oiled machine,

588
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,039
even in hindsight. I didn't Again, at the time, I

589
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:59,640
didn't know. I didn't have any frame of reference to

590
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,319
what good leadership was. In hindsight, we were. We were

591
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:09,599
in a very good unit. We made mistakes, We fucked

592
00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:11,160
a couple of things up, had a couple of friendly

593
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:19,759
fire incidents, and yeah, uh but uh yeah, uh, mistakes happens.

594
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,559
I'm lucky you killed that documentary I did.

595
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:26,079
Speaker 1: Don't you killed Pat Tillman?

596
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,039
Speaker 4: Dude? Did I show you? I've been going hard on

597
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:34,599
Grock lately. I created a picture of Pat Tillman, if

598
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,039
he wasn't killed, going to a VA appointment. He's like

599
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:39,319
super fat in a wheelchair. Yeah.

600
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,839
Speaker 3: Is he wearing his cardinal jersey?

601
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, uh yeah, I've been I've been real loose

602
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,880
with rock. No, you know that I that documentary that

603
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,480
I produced, Yes, the Warpigs documentary.

604
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:52,519
Speaker 1: Excellent documentary.

605
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: So I was That's the company I was with during

606
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,359
the invasion. Yeah. So the company commander that I interviewed

607
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:01,640
for the war Pigs document was my company commander, and.

608
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: The Warpizo was about them in Fallujah.

609
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:06,839
Speaker 4: Right, that's yeah, A year year later in Allujah. Were

610
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:09,079
you out by then or no? I I went on

611
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:13,039
a different deployment with a different company. Okay, yeah, uh

612
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:16,559
so I didn't do Fallujah, but about fifty percent of

613
00:29:16,599 --> 00:29:19,440
the guys probably more that I interviewed in that I

614
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:21,680
went to lav school with they showed up at the

615
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,400
same time I did for the invasion. Gil Warris was

616
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,319
my old company commander that that during the invasion. So yeah,

617
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:31,559
I knew a lot of those fellows.

618
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,839
Speaker 1: You touched on a little bit. What exactly was your

619
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:35,599
specific job.

620
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: I was a three thirteen and if you're the most

621
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,160
junior O three thirteen on a vehicle, you're the driver.

622
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,559
Speaker 1: Okay, I was a driver okay, Yeah, so you spent

623
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:46,119
the whole invasion driving what what? What were you driving?

624
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,319
Speaker 4: I was up in the turret a little bit, okay,

625
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:50,119
but yeah, I was driving most of the time. What

626
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:50,359
is it?

627
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: What vehicles it?

628
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 4: There's an LAV twenty five, a light armored vehicle the

629
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,119
United States, the Marine Corps is the only branch of

630
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,559
service in the United States that used that uses them.

631
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:02,319
And there's a only three battalions, so it's a very

632
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:05,839
small community. Uh but the Canadians have a lot of them,

633
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:08,920
Australians have a lot of them. They're popular in a

634
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,279
lot of NATO countries.

635
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,359
Speaker 1: Was it the type of thing? So again, I'm not

636
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,079
I'm a history buff, but my military knowledge only goes

637
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,079
so far, especially compared to you or anyone else.

638
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:20,519
Speaker 3: Just say, you're a bitch.

639
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:24,119
Speaker 1: I'm a little bitch. What so is this like sort

640
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,079
of like mechanized infantry versus like like there was a

641
00:30:27,079 --> 00:30:29,799
turret with machine guns on it and everything, but like,

642
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,480
did you guys get out and yeah, so like have

643
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:35,960
to you know, fight on foot and maybe clear house

644
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:36,799
whatever the fuck?

645
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah? Uh so the vehicle crewmen, there's three, the driver,

646
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,839
the gunner, and the vehicle commander. They're typically on the

647
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,480
vehicle the entire time, but you carry four guys in

648
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,839
the back right, so they their dismounts, their scouts. It's

649
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,000
very similar to the army's cavalry roll yea. So those

650
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:57,119
guys can pop out and clear houses and cleared, you know,

651
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,200
clear ditches. And I relied them on on the h'm

652
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,880
a lot for loots since I couldn't get out of

653
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,400
the vehicle. They they brought me back. I got the

654
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,680
loot that they didn't want. Yeah, so I do. I

655
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,720
still I have like old Iraqi army berets and helmets

656
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:14,680
and all sorts of Yeah.

657
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Dude, I was. I saw someone getting shamed on Twitter

658
00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:22,359
over Thanksgiving or Christmas because they were like, look what

659
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,960
I'm serving my Christmas ham on and it was an

660
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,960
old Nazi plate.

661
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 4: Go Grandpa brought back, right? And I was like and

662
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,039
people were like, oh, I was like, well, let's.

663
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: Just not assume. I was like, if he's doing it

664
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,839
because he likes the Nazis, and yeah, I guess fuck him. Weird. Yeah,

665
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,920
more likely he's just like this is sweet. Yeah, I'm

666
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,599
gonna serve this is Christmas dinner. What Grandpa brought home

667
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:46,960
and that's awesome.

668
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 4: My grandpa frecking swiped this fair and square. It's in

669
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:50,640
a family, now.

670
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:52,279
Speaker 1: Dude, if Mike want so, I had a grandpa in

671
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,680
Europe and grandpa in the Pacific. Grandpa the Pacific was

672
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,599
a doctor, so he didn't really get to loot anything

673
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,160
or whatever. But like man, if he had brought home

674
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,880
a katana, I'd be cutting the turkey with.

675
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:03,839
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he saw a lot of trench foot, that's

676
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,160
for sure.

677
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,359
Speaker 3: I would only serve Jewish food on that plate.

678
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything's gotta be uh kosher.

679
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how you get a poltergeist. I think some

680
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:15,920
spirit attached to the plate.

681
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 3: It's just like a Nazi.

682
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: I've got I if you want some story time, Yeah, baby,

683
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,759
we were the first ones into into decrit. I did

684
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,720
Task Force Tripoli and uh that was Saddam's whole hometown.

685
00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:33,680
My first bath in thirty days was swimming in the

686
00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:37,279
uh euphrates there, it's either maybe I think it was

687
00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:42,119
the euphrates. Uh. We we we each got our own

688
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,960
fucking bath party palace to ourselves, and I looted.

689
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, what did you take from Saddam's palace?

690
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 4: I had been sitting on that damn seat vibrating my

691
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,880
just hurting my ass for weeks. I took a pillow

692
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,960
just so I could have something to sit on, and

693
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,720
then I still have that pill to this day. I'm like,

694
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,400
I have one of Saddam Hussein's fucking pillows. That's fucking yeah,

695
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,640
And I only I only took it because I literally

696
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,119
needed something to put my ass on it.

697
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: You need to have a baby just so you can

698
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:13,599
rest that child on.

699
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 4: The pillow, on the old bath party pillow.

700
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: And you seem like you see on my Instagram with

701
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,240
my kids, but like everyone, babies are born, like the

702
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:23,200
women are like, hey, we need to spend four hundred

703
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,480
dollars on a photographer immediately, Like okay, cool, my phone

704
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,480
has a camera, but sure, yeah, and uh they're just

705
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:31,720
like they're always nestled up in a little in a

706
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,039
little basket and got their little swaddle on. Take a

707
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:37,920
little picture. Anyway, if you have a kid, you need

708
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,039
to bring the bath party pillow. Yeah, put it in

709
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:41,720
a bat that's what the child needs to have the

710
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:45,319
picture taken on is the bath party? Yeah yeah, and

711
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:46,440
maybe put the beret on them.

712
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 4: I tried giving it to my mom because I kind

713
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,319
of I'm I don't really hold on to stuff a lot.

714
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440
I kind of gave a lot of that loot away

715
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,000
to friends and family, and I tried giving it to

716
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,839
my mom and she had no interest in it because

717
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,720
I think she didn't. I think she was creeped out

718
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:01,920
by it. So I have it.

719
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:06,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, did resistance pick up in into Crete? Because I know,

720
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,480
like in other wars for example, like you know, it

721
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:12,159
would have been a bad it would have been a

722
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:17,239
bad propaganda blow to say, lose Staliningrad right right when?

723
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,079
Like was there? What did did? Was there any I

724
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:23,199
don't know, heavier resistance into create, like we can't lose

725
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,159
the city or was everyone just on their heels at

726
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:26,480
that point they were on their heels.

727
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:28,639
Speaker 4: I think we got into a couple of gunfights on

728
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
the way in, but once we were in the city,

729
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:35,719
uh Ta, Crit was very well taken care of because

730
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,440
it's with Saddam's hometown. Uh And I think, oh, I remember, yeah,

731
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,719
that I had some I think that was into Crit.

732
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,719
Might have been Bagdad, but I had some homemade chicken

733
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,480
from some lady that they seemed relatively polite there. I

734
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,760
think things kicked back up there later, but at that time,

735
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,119
they're like, well, I guess they're in charge now. Yeah.

736
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,559
Iraqi are used to having other countries, They're used to

737
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:06,519
being strong armed by other foreign powers. The British were there,

738
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,000
uh back in the day. Yeah.

739
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: Uh. The first off, Iraq is you know, people like

740
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,559
to say or like Dan Lison our show, like Palestine's

741
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,599
not a real place Iraqs not.

742
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 3: I don't say that, by the way, I don't say

743
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,719
me halloway hollow. I was saying pointing to you because

744
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,400
you said Dan and pointed to me.

745
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just met because we're on that show together. Sorry, yes,

746
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,280
you Dan believes that Palestine should conquer Israel. Dan doesn't

747
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,079
like Jews. This Dan doesn't like Jews. Other Dan doesn't

748
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:34,800
like Palestinians.

749
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:37,039
Speaker 3: So I think it belongs to the Pope.

750
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:39,079
Speaker 1: Yes, agreed, The Crusades need.

751
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,039
Speaker 4: To if you want to take it all the way

752
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:41,199
back to King Baldwin.

753
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,559
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah fuck yeah. But like Iraqs not, it's a

754
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,360
fake country, right, Like it's not.

755
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:49,039
Speaker 4: All those countries are technically fake.

756
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Yeah.

757
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:53,039
Speaker 4: The Europeans drew up the borders, Yeah they didn't. They

758
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:57,440
didn't think about the Europeans when they left Arabia. Did

759
00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:59,079
not give a lot of thought to the way they

760
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:00,000
drew those borders.

761
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: No, so that's the thing with that too, is it.

762
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000
I wondered if you actually encounters it all, did they

763
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:09,400
even have a sense of like, oh, no, my country,

764
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:11,559
because it seems like they would be. They are more

765
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,039
religiously and ethnically separated than nationally.

766
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 4: I you know from Uh, because I've been to southern

767
00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:21,280
Iraq as well. They're they're different down there. But I

768
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:27,039
think anywhere near and around central Iraq there is there

769
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:31,280
seems to be a sense of identity of being Iraqi. Uh.

770
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,840
They know, they know their history. They Babylon is history.

771
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,000
It's by Babylon's not far from Baghdad.

772
00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: And say what you will about the Husseins, I think

773
00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:44,440
he probably brought that kind of like national pride with

774
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:47,639
the Olympics, like Uday's committee for the Olympics. As bad

775
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:50,559
as it was, he's like you win or you fucking die.

776
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: A lot of effort into I mean, I'm not gonna

777
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,559
sit here and say Saddam obviously Saddam Hussein was not

778
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:58,800
a good guy.

779
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 3: But you rough stability.

780
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,599
Speaker 4: You can't ask for anything better than a secular leader

781
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:07,440
in that region.

782
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, no joke.

783
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:11,639
Speaker 4: He kept religious extremism at Bay, which is all you

784
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:12,760
can ask for in that region.

785
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing, so more about that a little bit.

786
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:19,400
One thing I kind of like joke about is like

787
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,119
you obviously can't travel back in time, but maybe the

788
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,880
closest thing you can get is going to like the

789
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,039
Middle East or India or something, because I feel like

790
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:30,800
they're kind of like socially and culturally a little behind.

791
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:34,800
Like it's I was surprised, I really, That's why I

792
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,559
want to ask, because it seems like to me, it's

793
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:38,360
almost like the sixteenth seventeenth century.

794
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: And to build off that. When you were there, did

795
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,199
you kind of appreciate how old the land was?

796
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 4: Yes? I did. We went to Babylon almost like a

797
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,079
fucking field trip after everything and died down and we

798
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:52,280
took a day trip to Babylon. The lady, the curator there,

799
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,000
she just picked up like we were just some any

800
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:57,679
other tourist group. Yeah, we're all in uniform carrying our

801
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:05,280
rifles around. My Babylon was such an amazing experience to

802
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,239
to get to go see that.

803
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:07,639
Speaker 1: How big is it?

804
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:10,679
Speaker 4: It's pretty big. The original ruins are there where the

805
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,679
Tower of Babel was Saddam actually invested a lot of

806
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:16,960
money in rebuilding, like the gates of Ishtar.

807
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: He rebuilt those, which is sweet. Yeah, I mean honestly

808
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,320
a big part in national pride for them, I would

809
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,639
imagine would be like this is where civilization started.

810
00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 4: We're older than the Egyptians. Yeah, yeah, we invented writing

811
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,000
like we did. We are the beginning and iraqis. I

812
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:37,480
think they they understand that, but I was. I was

813
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:42,400
surprised because, you know, again, my all I knew about

814
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,800
Iraq was from the television. I thought they all hated

815
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,960
us and everything was about death to America because that's

816
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,519
all you'd see on the on the news. One of

817
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,400
the first times I was out of the vehicle going

818
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,920
into it, I went into a local you know, like

819
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,559
a convenience store type place where they sold cigarettes and

820
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,400
tea and it there was a poster Britney Spears on

821
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,360
the wall. In two thousand and three. Yeah, hell yeah,

822
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,840
poster of Britney Spears.

823
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: Saddam's kids would invite rappers of it for their party.

824
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. Saddam loved barbecue. He ate fucking pork. He

825
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,000
brought that ship in from the United States.

826
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: Really funny.

827
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:23,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, this was not a family whose power came

828
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,559
based on any religious stuff.

829
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:26,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just took power.

830
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

831
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: Did you have any weird like obviously weird, not beyond

832
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,599
them shooting?

833
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that that kid I saw getting freaking Yeah.

834
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 1: Do you have any like bad interactions with with Iraqi's.

835
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,519
Speaker 4: Outside of the combat part.

836
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

837
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,679
Speaker 4: Yeah. Outside of the combat part, I don't. There was

838
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,000
some culture shocking. They're not nice to kids with Down syndrome.

839
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:48,719
I noticed.

840
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: See, that's what I taught. That's what I mean when

841
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,239
I'm like, yeah, it's a little bit like going back

842
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:53,519
in time.

843
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, it would like pick I remember it happened a

844
00:39:56,119 --> 00:40:00,639
couple of times and my my, my gunner, my direct superior,

845
00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:05,360
his brother had Down syndrome, and we we'd watched this.

846
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,440
Kids were kind of mean to the down syndrome kids. Yeah.

847
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:10,920
I remember seeing that and I was like, that's not good.

848
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,960
But man, no, outside of this combat part, I don't

849
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,360
recall any They were all, you know at that time, Oh, welcome,

850
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,559
happ We're happier here. They were having a party out

851
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:26,159
in the streets. I remember one night specifically, when I

852
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:30,119
think we were out in some bag Dad suburb or

853
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:32,840
something like that. They were all in the streets cheering

854
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,599
and dancing and shooting off fireworks and playing music. It

855
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,360
was surreal.

856
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 1: That's really funny. Odd, real quick, we have some ads

857
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Speaker 4: They they brought out fresh food for us, chicken and stuff.

913
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:30,280
They were getting their feeding us chai. To this day,

914
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,880
if I've go to other Arab countries, which I've been

915
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,719
to quite a few, and I asked for chai, I'm like,

916
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,400
can you put more sugar in it? Because the first

917
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,079
time I ever had chai, which is a big thing

918
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,159
out there, was in Iraq. Yeah. An Iraqi shop owner

919
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,159
just made me a big, nice hot glass of chai,

920
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:51,679
and uh it was delicious. It was so good. And

921
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,559
to this day, if I'm in other air countries, I'm like,

922
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:55,800
can you put more sugar in it? And and they'll

923
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,800
be like, no, iraqis they do that. I'm like, I

924
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,599
know that's where That's why I like it. I'm American,

925
00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:08,199
give me the sugar. Other Arabs historically, this predates anything

926
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,800
that's happened in recent years. Other Arabs kind of look

927
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,360
down on iraqis.

928
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: Really so actually, I've you've mentioned before maybe on the

929
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:17,800
show was certainly off of mine.

930
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 3: That's kind of crazy though, because Baghdad was like the

931
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,840
center of the Islamic oldag.

932
00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:26,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was very international. I saw white people,

933
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,239
Asian people, black people in the streets of Baghdad. It

934
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,320
was a very international, diverse community.

935
00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: It's got to be the biggest metropolis, metro area, or

936
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,400
at least like the most important metro area in the

937
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,719
Middle East, right at least used to be.

938
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the Arab world.

939
00:44:42,159 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: What other city would even like.

940
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 4: I think nowadays Rio is yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously Dubai. Yeah,

941
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:54,119
but Baghdad historically was like the center of the Arab world.

942
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: Uh. You've mentioned this before, Like I said, maybe just

943
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,519
off mic, but uh, you fucking hate Kowaiti's like you

944
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:02,679
were kind of power not hate like racistly, but like

945
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,880
you were like kind of power ranking a little bit. Yeah,

946
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,960
the different people from Arab countries, and you were like,

947
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:07,880
I don't know, like Kuwaiti's.

948
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 4: Iraqis are fucking awesome. They wear blue jans, they want

949
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,199
the nice car and the big TV like us. They

950
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,320
have posters of Britney spears on their wall. They're not

951
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,280
that vastly different from US. Maybe a little behind.

952
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean I guess that's the secularism versus.

953
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:30,079
Speaker 4: Yes, and I love Jordanians are phenomenal people. I don't

954
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,760
like the way Kuwaiti they They're lazy, yeah, they they

955
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:43,199
they don't actual Kuwaitis, they don't work. They treat immigrants horribly.

956
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:44,760
I mean, that's what bothered me.

957
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,159
Speaker 1: That's one of the countries that basically has like slaves, yes, yeah,

958
00:45:48,199 --> 00:45:52,159
like Qatar and Yep, probably Saudi Arabia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

959
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:53,000
but we don't talk about.

960
00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:55,639
Speaker 4: Even my Filipino driver when I was in Kuwait. I

961
00:45:55,679 --> 00:45:58,079
was there a couple of years ago for I was

962
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,480
doing like the USO show out there. We had a

963
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,639
Filipino guy that was our driver. There's a lot of

964
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:06,119
Filipinos in Kuwait. And he said kuwaits ten times better

965
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:09,079
than Saudi Arabia as far as the way that he's treated. Really, yeah,

966
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:11,960
I think he Now, yeah, I don't like the way

967
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,639
that they there. They treat other people poorly.

968
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

969
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,679
Speaker 4: Uh. And just like there's so much wealth there.

970
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,679
Speaker 1: And I remember people don't work because they're just like

971
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:29,079
rich families from way back and it's just national oil prince. Yeah. Yeah.

972
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 4: The actual true indigenous Kuwaitis are the Bedouins, right, but

973
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,719
you don't really see them unless you're in certain areas

974
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,800
the desert. Yeah. I remember when we used to go

975
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,719
train it Udari Range there, which is where you go

976
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,159
before you go into Iraq, you you know, do some

977
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:48,559
live fire stuff, some last minute training before you go

978
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:51,440
in country. The Bedouins would just hang out at these

979
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,360
live fire ranges and as soon as we were done

980
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,400
in the military, the first thing you're you do, you

981
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,320
clean up the mess. You clean up the brass. The

982
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,559
bed onaness would come out and clean it all up

983
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:03,760
and they take it back and melt it down and

984
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:04,400
sell it. Yeah.

985
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually I think Holloway has said that before too,

986
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:08,480
or maybe it was some other vet that was on

987
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,320
the Drinking Pro Show, but they were just like we

988
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,480
would have a gunfight and then come back twenty minutes

989
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:15,719
later in all the brass. Oh yeah, yeah, like in

990
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,840
a city even like it was just like all it

991
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:18,199
was gone.

992
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. The that Vedoin culture is very very interesting. It's

993
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:26,519
they're saying, I mean, there's a lot that javas. Yeah,

994
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,239
that's a that's a great episode is basically how you

995
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,679
know the the veterans of who is Lawrence T? Lawrence

996
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,199
was with Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very interesting culture. Uh

997
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,199
you see him out there just walking their camels in

998
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:39,239
the middle of nowhere.

999
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,559
Speaker 1: Speaking of living in the past. Yeah, that is like

1000
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:44,719
straight up like a two thousand years old yep type

1001
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,960
of they're still doing things there. They are the Amish

1002
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,599
of the of the Arab world. I'm sure they have

1003
00:47:49,639 --> 00:47:51,000
like a cell phone or a satellite phone.

1004
00:47:51,039 --> 00:47:53,199
Speaker 4: They do and they'll drive. They have like junk cars

1005
00:47:53,199 --> 00:47:54,119
that they drive right right.

1006
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's what was what was u Was there anything?

1007
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:01,000
Did you have any like real moments where you were

1008
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:05,199
just like, oh, I'm I'm invading a country. Yeah, I

1009
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:05,960
think uh.

1010
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 4: Once we started getting closer into the cities and uh

1011
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:13,519
uh you know, people were swarming our vehicles and you know,

1012
00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:16,519
all the cheering and hoopla, that's I think when it

1013
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:18,960
kicked in for me that we I'm like, oh my god,

1014
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,039
I'm doing war. Holy shit. Yeah. Uh yeah. When we

1015
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:26,719
got closer to Bagdad there. Yeah. But even after we

1016
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,119
took bag Dad, we got a big fight which was

1017
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,440
shown on Generation Kill because we were with them and

1018
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,440
we got into a pretty big at night.

1019
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: Was it?

1020
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:36,159
Speaker 4: The one?

1021
00:48:36,199 --> 00:48:37,199
Speaker 1: Which which fight was that.

1022
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:41,679
Speaker 4: It was in a city called Baqua Bah, which I

1023
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:44,360
think is if I'm not mistaken, I could be. I

1024
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,000
think it's northeast of bagh Dad, and that was like

1025
00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:52,880
a Fetaine stronghold. And we went up against like Republican

1026
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,920
guard like legit dudes, legit uniformed Republican.

1027
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: Can you tell the difference in terms of like, oh,

1028
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,960
these guys are doing real military.

1029
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 4: The l shape ambushed us. Okay, yeah, so that I mean, yeah,

1030
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,840
they did an L shape ambush. They were firing from

1031
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,400
the front and aside from the left, yeah, our left,

1032
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,039
I believe. And this is in the middle of the night,

1033
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:15,719
so all you know, all I could see was out

1034
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,320
of my periscopes.

1035
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: And okay, so racers bouncing around. I know the exact

1036
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,719
scene you're talking about that because there's a night combat

1037
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:23,039
that's like.

1038
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 4: That was that we Yeah, we did that fight with them.

1039
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,039
We were leading that column. And I'll never forget because

1040
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:32,599
I had a mortar land in front of my vehicle

1041
00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:36,159
and it blew up like six of the eight tires.

1042
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,000
So we had to when we had to, I forget

1043
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,280
all the terminology. It's been a long time. I wouldn't. Yeah,

1044
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,440
but we basically had to peel off, uh. And I

1045
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,400
remember I had to get out of the vehicle while

1046
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,719
the gunfight was still happening, and I had to start

1047
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,840
changing those tires. And I remember seeing the recon guys

1048
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,960
pop white smoke and they're they were clearing through the

1049
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,840
field where all the Republican guard were. Yeah, yeah, I

1050
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:05,400
remember that.

1051
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: How was that being in the middle of a gunfight

1052
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,960
not changing tires? Yeah, like I feel if I'm on

1053
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,880
the side of a highway, I'll just be like, I'm

1054
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,559
not getting my car some assholes. Yeah one hundred yeah,

1055
00:50:17,679 --> 00:50:19,239
do you at least have like a drill. You weren't

1056
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,800
doing it with like a fucking hand wrench.

1057
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,079
Speaker 4: Nope, doing it with a hand wrench. Yeah, fuck doing

1058
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:27,679
it manually. I had a couple of people get out

1059
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,760
and help me, but uh, yeah, you only carry I

1060
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,119
think one spare tire on lav so I was having

1061
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:33,440
to have.

1062
00:50:33,559 --> 00:50:34,679
Speaker 1: Why were you even changing him?

1063
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,599
Speaker 4: Because, uh, man, I'll tell you what I'll because that

1064
00:50:38,639 --> 00:50:42,199
one was that was pretty gnarly. That mortar exploded right

1065
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,239
in front of me. It knocked me out unconscious. Yeah,

1066
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,599
knock me out. And I came to and the vehicle

1067
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:50,280
was still driving. I'm like, okay, we're still good and

1068
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,760
there's everyone shooting. Was it just a concussion and I

1069
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,119
could hear the Yeah, it was the because it landed,

1070
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,800
it blew my pack up, so I I was I

1071
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,880
didn't have any spare underwear uniform for the rest of

1072
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,119
the chime up there because it blew my pack up.

1073
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,719
And uh and what happened, Uh that might be the

1074
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:08,519
TV I speaking.

1075
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:09,519
Speaker 3: You were concussed.

1076
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:11,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but.

1077
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 4: Man, I'll never forget once the tires are changed. I've

1078
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:19,559
never fallen asleep so fast in my life because that

1079
00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:20,880
adrenaline all dumped.

1080
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:22,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh.

1081
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 4: And then we slept for maybe three hours and we

1082
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:25,519
were back at it the next morning.

1083
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:28,559
Speaker 3: You do hear that from a lot of like former

1084
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,440
military where they get addicted to the adrenaline or is

1085
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,519
just the spike during combat.

1086
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 4: That's the highest my adrenaline has ever been in my life.

1087
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,960
And I don't know if I I don't know if

1088
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,360
I could have gotten addicted to it. But it is

1089
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,719
a weird, especially when you know you're gonna be okay, right, Yeah,

1090
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,199
And we didn't lose anybody on my vehicle or anything.

1091
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:54,599
Everybody's okay. It is kind of a euphoric feeling. Uh,

1092
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,079
for a period of time after uh that, you just like,

1093
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,519
did you realize, like someone tried to kill me? That's

1094
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:04,400
such a weird The first time he truly experienced and

1095
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,679
we we fired our weapons a few times before that engagement.

1096
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,440
That was the first time I was like, oh, I'm

1097
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,880
gonna die. And that's that when you realize someone tried

1098
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,840
to kill you and it was intentional it's such. I

1099
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,519
don't know, and I'm only speaking for myself, but I

1100
00:52:20,639 --> 00:52:26,320
wasn't angry, I wasn't scared. I wasn't uh, but I

1101
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,000
knew someone tried killing me. And it's a weird feeling.

1102
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that.

1103
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you get you like more locked in?

1104
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 4: Well? I I slept and it was ground. It was

1105
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,880
back to the normal routine the next day, I think,

1106
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,400
if I recall correctly, The next morning, we woke up

1107
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,440
and we were not far from where the engagement happened,

1108
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,119
and we dropped. We dropped, uh, one of the bigger bombs.

1109
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,679
So I got to watch that. Uh yeah, it's crazy,

1110
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,960
like I'll never forget. I think We're driving down the

1111
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:03,400
road and I was like, what's that smell in my vehicle?

1112
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,840
Commander grew up in rural Arkansas. Is like chicken farms.

1113
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,039
I can, I can, that's a chicken farm. Sure enough,

1114
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:14,480
it was like chicken farms. I'm having all these memories,

1115
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:16,800
but yeah.

1116
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:17,159
Speaker 1: Good, good, good memories.

1117
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 4: Yeah except for the kids getting freaking diddled.

1118
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,159
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, are you saying chicken farm though? Because you

1119
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,639
the bomb dropped and it just like roasted all the chickens.

1120
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 4: Oh, I know a cow got killed. I remember that.

1121
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:33,039
My buddy Dan, who's a lawyer now in la. Uh,

1122
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:34,880
he's he saw the cow evaporate.

1123
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my favorite story from another military dude I do.

1124
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:41,480
He was like, we were actually just doing like training

1125
00:53:41,519 --> 00:53:45,639
in the United States and uh they were shooting an

1126
00:53:45,679 --> 00:53:48,519
automatic grenade launcher. Yeah, like mounted on.

1127
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 4: A hum oh like Mark nineteen I met.

1128
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: I think so yeah, And he was like it was

1129
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:53,760
just a range, right, and there were a bunch of old,

1130
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,880
like shitty cars down and he was like, I was

1131
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,960
on it and I was just you know, emptying it right,

1132
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:00,039
like just finished off the whole bag or whatever the

1133
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:04,000
fuck drum whatever, And he was like as the last

1134
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,840
one went, like as I could feel last one leaving,

1135
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,480
I saw a deer run out three with the thing

1136
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,880
and I was like, oh no, and it hit the fuck.

1137
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,679
He was like the deer just smop the oh yeah,

1138
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,559
like just didn't like Randy Johnson bastball.

1139
00:54:18,639 --> 00:54:20,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, all the kids on that range. As soon as

1140
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:22,559
everyone else saw that deer, it's a race because they're

1141
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:24,800
gonna call cease fire. So as soon as you see

1142
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,760
that deer, it's a race before they're telling you to

1143
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,840
stop firing because you want to you want to shoot

1144
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,159
that fucking thing. I mean, because they're gonna tell you

1145
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:33,400
to stop firing as soon as the range officer sees

1146
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,679
the deer, like they're shutting the range down.

1147
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fu deer anyway.

1148
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a deer.

1149
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:38,599
Speaker 1: Got to get rid of them.

1150
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 4: We we would have buffalo and can't Penalton there. We'd

1151
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,880
have buffalo walk onto the range while we're out there firing,

1152
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:45,400
really shut everything down.

1153
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like a bison. Yeah, yeah, he can't kill

1154
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:51,719
a bison. No, no, no enough, very enough military members

1155
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,119
have killed bison over the years.

1156
00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, it's in our blood we have, right, right,

1157
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,280
did you?

1158
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: Actually I'll touched on this earlier a little bit, but

1159
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,360
because you said black hawk Down did, Like at this

1160
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:05,840
point in two thousand and three, we're kind of like

1161
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,679
peak war culture at this point because you've got like

1162
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,519
saving Private Rye blackhock Down, band of brothers that come

1163
00:55:11,559 --> 00:55:15,400
out all the shit. Did any of that paint and

1164
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:16,880
expectation for you at all?

1165
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:18,079
Speaker 4: Black Hawk Down did?

1166
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1167
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,679
Speaker 4: Because I remember seeing that my senior year of high school.

1168
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,239
That came out like right after nine to eleven.

1169
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: I think it. Yeah, yea, yeah, yeah.

1170
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,079
Speaker 4: I remember seeing that in high school and I'd already

1171
00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:30,199
joined the Marines at that point, so that movie did

1172
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:35,159
resonate with me a lot, and that's kind of how

1173
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:40,360
I imagined Iraq was gonna be. H was like black

1174
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:40,960
Hawk Down.

1175
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:44,119
Speaker 3: You're like, if I die, it will carry my corpse

1176
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:45,400
through the streets.

1177
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:45,519
Speaker 4: Right right?

1178
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, strip you naked and be like. That was

1179
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,519
my biggest frame of reference with probably black Hawk Down.

1180
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,639
How old are you invasion Aga?

1181
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 4: Nineteen years old?

1182
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: Okay?

1183
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:02,519
Speaker 4: Yeah. I graduated boot camp right around my nineteenth birthday

1184
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,199
of two thousand and two. I went to my Infantry school,

1185
00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:09,360
which was like two months, and I went to the

1186
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,000
LAV School, which is about two months, and then right

1187
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,039
on right on a plane to Kuwait.

1188
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 1: And you didn't we used on a plane with other

1189
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,760
random Marines and a lot of guys I.

1190
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 4: Went to LAV school with, so a lot of those

1191
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,440
guys I interviewed in that documentary and everything like that,

1192
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,559
So we were all brand new together. Yeah, and we

1193
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:31,400
all showed up about a week you know, yeah, a

1194
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,679
week before everything kicked off, and those were the only

1195
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,159
guys I knew because I was just so brand new

1196
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:42,320
I didn't know who anybody was and back the mill.

1197
00:56:42,519 --> 00:56:45,239
So to go back to what you're talking about, were

1198
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:50,239
they that inept? Wait?

1199
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:51,119
Speaker 1: Was who that inept?

1200
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 4: The periodship? Okay, I will I will say the Marine

1201
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,199
Corps was different back then because, uh, the nineties Marine

1202
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:01,400
Corps was in the new a lot and not for

1203
00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:05,079
combat stuff. They had a big hazing problem in the

1204
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:07,719
Marine Corps in the nineties. They were like doing sixty

1205
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,360
minutes stuff on it. It was a real problem. And

1206
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:14,280
I caught the tail end of that peacetime Marine Corps.

1207
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,519
None of my superiors, with the exceptions a couple, you know,

1208
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:21,960
first gardens, did Desert Storm, but none of them had

1209
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:22,679
been in combat.

1210
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: Right.

1211
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,039
Speaker 4: We were all doing that for the first time together,

1212
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:27,679
from the the newest guy to you.

1213
00:57:27,639 --> 00:57:29,239
Speaker 1: Know, everyone in charge, everyone in.

1214
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,599
Speaker 4: Charge, all these officers and everything. We were all doing

1215
00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:33,679
it for the first time. And there was still a

1216
00:57:33,719 --> 00:57:39,559
lot of that really bad nineties Marine Corps mentality with

1217
00:57:39,719 --> 00:57:43,320
a lot of my superiors where they were really not

1218
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,400
rough on us in a good way. They were you know,

1219
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,599
I see veterans romanticized, not just veterans, but active duty people.

1220
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:57,360
I see them romanticize this kind of hazing era in

1221
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,719
the Marine Corps. They they they look at it with

1222
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,000
these rose colored glasses like it was just so better

1223
00:58:03,039 --> 00:58:04,920
to be able to beat the shit out of someone

1224
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,360
when they fucked up back in the day. And I

1225
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,159
lived the kind of the end of that period. It

1226
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,039
was not good. Hazing is bad. I deadlined a fucking

1227
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:19,400
vehicle when we were just outside of bag Dad. I

1228
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,000
fucked up our readiness because I was so afraid to

1229
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:24,519
ask a question because they would just beat the ship

1230
00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:27,039
out of us for no reason, just for their own

1231
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:29,400
amusement in the middle of a world.

1232
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,039
Speaker 3: Well, that's the stereotype of Marines, is you know, biggest

1233
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,920
meat heads. Just kind of was that.

1234
00:58:35,039 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of showed that a little bit in

1235
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,199
a jar head. Yeah, where they're like branding them and

1236
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:41,559
like fucking them up and stuff like that.

1237
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:45,679
Speaker 4: Sh It was real. Yeah. Uh, I don't the branding stuff.

1238
00:58:45,679 --> 00:58:48,880
I never personally witnessed that, but uh, yeah, that that

1239
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:53,960
was the nineties Marine Corps. It was very hazing intensive

1240
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:56,800
and uh and it was not healthy. It was. It

1241
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,880
was bad for the Marine Corps.

1242
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,199
Speaker 1: Interesting, I had never heard that before in my life.

1243
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:03,760
I was younger than itty, so I was necessarily following

1244
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,159
hazing news in the Marines, but like you would ask

1245
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:08,440
a question and they would just fucking class.

1246
00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:11,199
Speaker 4: You're just afraid of them. Yeah, yeah, they didn't like

1247
00:59:12,639 --> 00:59:15,199
they didn't make it. Uh and you canta understand, like

1248
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,199
my leaders were two years older than me. They were

1249
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:23,719
just barely old enough to drink themselves. Yeah uh, but yeah,

1250
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,159
they were just you were afraid to fucking ask questions,

1251
00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:29,519
which you know, when you're invading a country, you should

1252
00:59:29,519 --> 00:59:31,599
feel comfortable asking questions if you're the new guy.

1253
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:35,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh that's fucking what happened with the

1254
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,239
what was the readiness situation?

1255
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 4: It was abysmal, But I.

1256
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: Mean like with what was that what was that incident

1257
00:59:42,519 --> 00:59:44,960
where you deadline the vehicle and.

1258
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:51,119
Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, I uh pulled You know, you're an infantryman,

1259
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:53,559
but you're you're doing a lot of vehicle maintenance and uh,

1260
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:56,000
I pulled the wrong plug and I drained the transmission

1261
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,000
fluid and it it busted up the engine and everything

1262
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,559
thing and they fixed it within twelve hours. I got

1263
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:07,519
an ass chewing and yeah, but again they were like

1264
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:10,000
they would put their hands on us for far less stuff.

1265
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,639
And then I actually did a big fuck up and

1266
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:17,119
then I like got my ass chewed. It was weird, like, Okay,

1267
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:18,199
really I thought you were gonna hit me.

1268
01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:21,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought I was gonna get another mortar blast

1269
01:00:21,239 --> 01:00:21,679
to the face.

1270
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,679
Speaker 4: Yeah uh yeah. And it was bad timing because I

1271
01:00:24,679 --> 01:00:26,199
think it was like right when we were about to

1272
01:00:26,239 --> 01:00:28,679
go into Baghdad, but we got it fixed on time,

1273
01:00:28,719 --> 01:00:31,880
and yeah, we went into But also those vehicles were

1274
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,000
on the Lav's they're swim qualified. You can actually float them. Yeah,

1275
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:39,000
they have propellers, but none of us were taking those

1276
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,599
things in that river, so we still had to wait

1277
01:00:40,639 --> 01:00:43,239
for the engineers to build bridges and kind.

1278
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: Of like I feel like they're kind of gnarly rivers.

1279
01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:49,079
Yeah they're big. Yeah, they're big, and I guess it depends,

1280
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:54,519
but there they flood like violently and erratically. Yeah, I

1281
01:00:54,519 --> 01:00:54,840
would be.

1282
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,639
Speaker 4: That was uh, that was March, so it was kind

1283
01:00:58,639 --> 01:01:01,320
of a wet seat. Yeah, what part of the year

1284
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:01,760
out there?

1285
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: Yeah that how was uh how much like were you

1286
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:11,840
worried at all about urban combat versus because you said

1287
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,840
you're in rural areas a lot, right, For the most part,

1288
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,760
I feel like urban combat just like looking at stuff

1289
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,400
and reading about stuff and watching stuff horrible. Urban combat

1290
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,719
and jungle combat are the two things where I'm just like, Nope.

1291
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:28,039
Speaker 4: That's why Fallujah was so gnarly was because of the

1292
01:01:28,159 --> 01:01:30,679
urban environment. Yea. If it was just the number are

1293
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,760
numbers versus their numbers wiped, you know in a rural area,

1294
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,000
that would have not barely made the news. It was

1295
01:01:38,039 --> 01:01:39,519
because of the urban atmosphere.

1296
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:42,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, did they try to hunker down.

1297
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 4: I think we did get into a couple of fights

1298
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,199
inside city. I was there that when that Jessica Lin

1299
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:52,519
shit happened. We drove through that like the next day. Uh.

1300
01:01:53,239 --> 01:01:57,800
She was in a company of army mechanics. They weren't

1301
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,880
like infantry, and back then, I don't think the army

1302
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,079
put as much emphasis on training them those kind of

1303
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,440
jobs for combat. Yeah, it's changed because of Iraq, but I.

1304
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,719
Speaker 1: Mean, if you're occupying a country, everyone has to be

1305
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,960
ready for combat. Yeah, and like when they're literally all

1306
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,679
around you at all times.

1307
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, we draw our and there were some marines that

1308
01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:22,239
got horribly ambushed. I think they lost like a whole

1309
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,320
squad of marines and we drove I remember driving past

1310
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:29,119
those am traks after that happened, and they were all

1311
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:32,400
burnt out and something terrible had happened there. Yeah, and

1312
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:33,880
that happened in an urban environment.

1313
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:36,559
Speaker 1: Yeahs fucking it seems like a nightmare. Like it seems

1314
01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:41,239
like it also erases like fifty percent of your advantage.

1315
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially you can't just call You can't call on

1316
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,519
air strikes on random ass buildings.

1317
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:50,679
Speaker 1: You have to go in there, right, Well we can't. Yeah, yeah,

1318
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,000
Russia can. Yeah, you know what I mean, China probably would.

1319
01:02:54,039 --> 01:02:55,159
Speaker 4: Had different SOPs.

1320
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like, God damn it, we gotta fucking go

1321
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:03,400
in yeah yeah, yeah, And and honestly, it's it makes sense,

1322
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:06,800
it's it would be. That's the main thing I took

1323
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,119
away that the whole world took away after the First

1324
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,559
Iraq War was like, you can't fight these people in.

1325
01:03:11,559 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 4: An open field, in an open field.

1326
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: Like in open combat. The Americans, Oh yes, yeah, no,

1327
01:03:18,639 --> 01:03:21,000
we we own that. Yeah, Like it's just you're not

1328
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:21,440
going to win.

1329
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,719
Speaker 4: No, And that first desert storm was that was in Kuwait,

1330
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,719
and that and Kuwait is nothing just but desert, That's

1331
01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:31,880
all it is. Until you get into the city. There

1332
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,599
is nothing else going on there but desert. No where

1333
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:40,760
to hip where Iraq was relative fairly vegetated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1334
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:45,760
and there was a more hilly terrain in Iraq. And

1335
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,000
I've never been to northern Iraq. I hear that's one

1336
01:03:48,039 --> 01:03:49,519
of the prettiest places on the planet.

1337
01:03:49,639 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: Really.

1338
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:51,599
Speaker 4: I hear it's gorgeous up there.

1339
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: We'll never know.

1340
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 4: I want to go. Yeah, I hear her Biel is

1341
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,199
a cool, cool place to go visit and you're safe

1342
01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:00,679
there if you're.

1343
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: In America's been back to Iraq?

1344
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:02,639
Speaker 4: Right? No?

1345
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: Been.

1346
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 4: I've been to Kuwait quite a few times. I haven't

1347
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,159
been to I. I flew over Iraq, but I have

1348
01:04:08,239 --> 01:04:10,440
not been. I have not set my foot in Iraq.

1349
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:13,519
I go back, especially like northern Iraq. Yeah, check that out.

1350
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:15,079
Speaker 1: Where were you What parts of Iraq were you in?

1351
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:17,159
Obviously to Crete and Bagdad.

1352
01:04:16,679 --> 01:04:20,519
Speaker 4: And yeah, all over. Ok. We did a field trip

1353
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:21,400
to Babylon.

1354
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: After the initial invasion. Were you just kind of getting

1355
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,639
sent wherever because presumably you're kind of unrelatively in one area.

1356
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:29,559
Moving up towards we went to the border.

1357
01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:34,079
Speaker 4: I think of Syria and did like a bullshit mission

1358
01:04:34,119 --> 01:04:38,039
out there, and then after that we uh the entire

1359
01:04:38,119 --> 01:04:42,320
first Marine Division because marines are useless at that point.

1360
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:46,480
The offensive operation is over right, So we sat in

1361
01:04:46,519 --> 01:04:49,519
a town called a Dwinea for like a month and

1362
01:04:49,679 --> 01:04:52,760
just got our mail and jerked off and and just

1363
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:54,719
kind of hung around for like a month, and then

1364
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:55,519
we went back to them.

1365
01:04:55,679 --> 01:04:58,239
Speaker 3: That's another thing. Did you encounter anybody from like Syria

1366
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:03,119
or neighboring countries that came over for a jahad uh?

1367
01:05:04,519 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 4: From what I recall, most of the people we were

1368
01:05:06,519 --> 01:05:14,320
fighting were uniformed. Iraqis a couple that did happen, that

1369
01:05:14,719 --> 01:05:18,519
started happening. I think later the guys in Foluja were

1370
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:19,320
fighting those guys.

1371
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:21,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, why would you even go over right away?

1372
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:22,519
But let the invasion happen then?

1373
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's precisely like like I said, there was

1374
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,400
a three or four months after the invasion was over

1375
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,920
where it it was kind of back to normal. Yeah,

1376
01:05:33,639 --> 01:05:36,920
I didn't there were some gun fights that happened here

1377
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,800
and there, but we were we felt like the war

1378
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:41,159
was over.

1379
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,239
Speaker 1: It was pretty quiet before they kind of got their

1380
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,280
shit together for a second, well for a resistance, I

1381
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,000
guess or whatever.

1382
01:05:47,519 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 4: I think he should absolutely like I think he should

1383
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,599
be in fucking prison for this. And you know, we

1384
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:57,039
can talk a lot about about George Bush and Dick

1385
01:05:57,159 --> 01:05:59,719
Cheney and Colin Powell and Connolly's Rice and all them

1386
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:03,159
and all you know, everything leading up to it. But

1387
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,920
one person I think fucked up so badly that they

1388
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,519
they need to be held responsible and it's never gonna

1389
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:16,400
happen is the is the fucking dipshit who disbanded the

1390
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:21,079
Iraqi army after the invasion was over. That's nation rebuilding

1391
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:24,360
one on one. Yeah, you retain the army and you

1392
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,159
get them back to work. He sent a bunch of

1393
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,079
twenty year olds with military training, he took their jobs

1394
01:06:33,119 --> 01:06:35,920
away from them and sent them home. Right. It's one

1395
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,119
of the biggest fuck ups in American history. And that

1396
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:40,679
guy's a dumb piece. I forget his name. I think

1397
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:48,440
his brimmer. He was Bush's National security advisor. He's an absolute, horrible,

1398
01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:50,480
fucking dipshit of a human being.

1399
01:06:50,599 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: That I'm not getting an answer on it right away,

1400
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,519
but you are, I assume you're, Oh, yeah, Paul Bremmer.

1401
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 4: Paul Browner up an absolute fucking piece of shit idiots

1402
01:06:58,920 --> 01:06:59,199
that is.

1403
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember, uh people roasted Patent back in

1404
01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:07,440
the day because he was giving essentially like Nazi officers

1405
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:09,280
jobs like running the cities he had taken it.

1406
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 4: They know how to do it, right, You're gonna have

1407
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,719
to leave eventually, right, Like.

1408
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,559
Speaker 1: It's not he's not condoning Nazism, but no, like I

1409
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:18,400
need someone who knows how to run this town. Yes,

1410
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,039
Like I can't just get the Baker to do it.

1411
01:07:20,119 --> 01:07:22,119
Speaker 4: That guy's a fucking engineer, right yeah.

1412
01:07:22,199 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like if he if he needs to go to

1413
01:07:24,519 --> 01:07:27,119
Nuremberg later, we'll send him to Nuremberg. Right now, I'm

1414
01:07:27,159 --> 01:07:28,840
just trying to fucking settle ship down.

1415
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, we didn't just sipand the fucking German army.

1416
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: No, No, yeah, it's it's that's that's yeah, especially to

1417
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,159
what you send them home without a job and like

1418
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,639
maybe stinging from the l two so they just have

1419
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:45,000
to stew about it instead of like.

1420
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,559
Speaker 4: Well they may not even be like super religious dudes,

1421
01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:49,679
but they're they're pissed off and they're young.

1422
01:07:50,119 --> 01:07:50,559
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1423
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,119
Speaker 4: Young pissed off men are a problem if you don't

1424
01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:53,679
contain them.

1425
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a you need to focus them in the

1426
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,280
right direction. Yeah.

1427
01:07:59,199 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 4: Uh.

1428
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,639
Speaker 1: The last question I have is you said you did

1429
01:08:02,639 --> 01:08:04,000
you fight alongside the British at all?

1430
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,559
Speaker 4: I went back there. I went back there a second time,

1431
01:08:09,639 --> 01:08:11,880
and was with the British. Okay, but not during the invasion.

1432
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,239
Speaker 1: Okay, how was that? How was How are the Brits cool?

1433
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:14,960
Cool culture?

1434
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:18,520
Speaker 4: Man? Yeah? They their military is a lot yeah, I

1435
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,039
mean they you know, there's a reason why they're they're military.

1436
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:27,079
Conquered half the world. They're a very adequate military. Uh.

1437
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:30,119
But they're a lot more loose than we are. Really. Yeah,

1438
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:31,840
they'd have beer and shit like that.

1439
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:34,079
Speaker 1: That's just the culture, man. You gotta have your five

1440
01:08:34,079 --> 01:08:35,159
o'clock fucking pint.

1441
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 4: Yeah. They I was with a bunch of Scottish dudes, Okay,

1442
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:43,800
so I had a hard time understanding them. Yeah.

1443
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,119
Speaker 1: It's fucking barely English.

1444
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:49,359
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. Uh, and but it was weird because I

1445
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:51,640
could tell their officers were like English.

1446
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1447
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. Which in the American military, like you can be

1448
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,399
from bump fuck Arkansas or like a shitty inner city

1449
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,439
neighborhood and if you meet the qualifications, you're an office.

1450
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,039
Speaker 1: So you can be a hill person, go to r

1451
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:05,399
OTC West Virginia community, you're.

1452
01:09:05,239 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 4: In charge of things.

1453
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:06,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

1454
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:08,560
Speaker 4: Where I think in a lot of those years, definitely

1455
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,319
the Arab militaries, but a lot of those European militaries.

1456
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,760
There's still a lot of bloodline that goes on there

1457
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:15,439
who gets to be an officer.

1458
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,039
Speaker 1: It is interesting though that there's like, which isn't a

1459
01:09:18,079 --> 01:09:19,920
thing in the United States. It feels like it's a

1460
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:23,560
thing in the UK and obviously Arab countries and stuff.

1461
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,319
But like there's a certain amount of the well off families,

1462
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:29,199
a lot of them, not all of them by any means,

1463
01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:32,920
but some number of them expect military service out of there,

1464
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:37,479
like suns or oh, the Windsors. Yeah, yeah, Like I mean, yeah,

1465
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,199
Harry was both of them were in the in the

1466
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,439
in the military. Harry deployed. Yeah, but like even other

1467
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,000
there's even other family, Like there's another listener to the show, Houston.

1468
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:48,479
I won't say his last name. He was talking about.

1469
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,039
He was he's dealt with British officers before and stuff

1470
01:09:52,119 --> 01:09:55,319
like that, and they're all like absolutely to do you know,

1471
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,199
well to do yes, And it's not but you wouldn't.

1472
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,039
There's not there's not gonna be someone from the Walton family,

1473
01:10:01,359 --> 01:10:04,399
no running a company in the US military, right, There's

1474
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,199
not gonna be like Jeff Bezos' kid is not going

1475
01:10:07,279 --> 01:10:07,720
It's rare.

1476
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that happens. Yeah, there's certain political families that McCain's

1477
01:10:12,399 --> 01:10:13,399
sons all served.

1478
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think any of the Bushes

1479
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,199
did after HW No, I'm not to my knowledge.

1480
01:10:19,279 --> 01:10:21,119
Speaker 4: George Bush did the National Guard.

1481
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: Right and and like barely and like I don't know

1482
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,439
that any anyone from the Bush from his generation now below,

1483
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,359
like his kids are, like Pierce Bush or Prescott Bush

1484
01:10:31,399 --> 01:10:34,479
was the railroad commissioner here. I'm pretty sure they didn't

1485
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:35,399
serve in the military.

1486
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,079
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of the last president that had

1487
01:10:38,359 --> 01:10:40,960
one of their kids go off to military service at

1488
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,640
any point. I mean, it would technically be oh, Biden,

1489
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,039
never mind Biden. Yeah, here's a jag. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

1490
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:53,279
Biden did. Actually, other than that, you didn't.

1491
01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 3: Got got by those burn pits, yeah yeah, yeah.

1492
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 4: I mean every every war generation has to have their

1493
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,800
age orange, right, that's our age and orange exactly. Actually,

1494
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:06,960
I did a story on one of those organizations recently,

1495
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:11,399
and the cases of cancer are highest in the Air

1496
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,199
Force in the Navy. It's not necessarily people that were

1497
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:16,880
around burn pits and country, although that is a thing.

1498
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:19,880
It's the Navy and Air Force people because of all

1499
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:24,520
the kind of munitions and fuel that they handle. I'm

1500
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,600
sure they have much higher rates of cancer.

1501
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: You're probably and I mean the Navy too, you're dealing

1502
01:11:29,159 --> 01:11:30,880
with I assume a lot of like fumes and shit

1503
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,840
in enclosed spaces. Yeah fuck that. Yeah, not a Navy guy.

1504
01:11:36,199 --> 01:11:36,920
Love the Navy.

1505
01:11:37,119 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 4: They have the worst living conditions out of any Yeah,

1506
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:43,399
I mean people. Yes, when the Marines in the Army

1507
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,880
have to go invade a country, they're sleeping in the dirt,

1508
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,279
no doubt. But day to day, the Navy is the

1509
01:11:49,279 --> 01:11:50,079
hardest place to live.

1510
01:11:50,119 --> 01:11:53,199
Speaker 3: Then listen, Jack. When you're on a submarine, everyone's a hand.

1511
01:11:53,359 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man.

1512
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,119
Speaker 4: And that that the officer culture in the Navy from

1513
01:11:58,119 --> 01:12:01,439
what I observed, because I was on a couple ships.

1514
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,479
It a marine officer, and I would imagine Army officer

1515
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,760
would never think to talk to enlisted people the way

1516
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:15,079
that Navy officers talked. They're enlisted in what way? It's

1517
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:19,119
officers have a lot more weight in the Navy, and

1518
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:24,159
it's very it's they're a lot quicker to chew an

1519
01:12:24,279 --> 01:12:28,119
enlisted person out. They take their rank structure a lot

1520
01:12:28,119 --> 01:12:30,680
more seriously. As far as you're really not shit until

1521
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,960
you're an E seven or unless you're an officer where

1522
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,239
in the Marine Corps you have a twenty one year

1523
01:12:38,279 --> 01:12:41,680
olds in charge of squads of people that are they're

1524
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:43,119
having to make life or deaf decisions.

1525
01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that makes First off, it probably

1526
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,239
makes sense just from inheriting the legacy of like what

1527
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,359
being on a ship used to be, like.

1528
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:53,079
Speaker 4: Naval tradition is so much different than any other military.

1529
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,039
Speaker 1: And I guess secondly, like it maybe makes sense in

1530
01:12:55,199 --> 01:12:58,119
just that like you guys are out in the dirt,

1531
01:12:58,159 --> 01:12:59,880
like you said, and maybe you got an lav or

1532
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:02,840
like that, but you're not really maybe dealing with like

1533
01:13:03,279 --> 01:13:06,199
insanely expensive equipment, right and stuff like that.

1534
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 4: Where an entire ship can sink if you fuck up

1535
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,079
right right right right, yeah you might. And yeah, and

1536
01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:14,359
you're living, your officers are sleeping right next to you.

1537
01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:15,199
You're all in it together.

1538
01:13:15,319 --> 01:13:20,359
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, next to Jack's pooh yeah yeah, income they

1539
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:22,439
all saw that just a bit, just.

1540
01:13:22,359 --> 01:13:26,119
Speaker 4: A huge dump right onto a freaking ammal can what uh?

1541
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,359
Speaker 1: The only question what was your like main takeaway from

1542
01:13:29,359 --> 01:13:31,760
your time interact, both like just from what you experience

1543
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,399
and like do you have any do you look at

1544
01:13:33,399 --> 01:13:36,479
it now from like a his oh like, oh I

1545
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,560
was involved in history, or oh, what is this thing's

1546
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:39,399
placed in history?

1547
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:44,279
Speaker 3: You have a positive kind of memory of that looking back.

1548
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 4: I have a positive memory of the people I did

1549
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:52,399
it with, But the war itself and everything, Uh, I

1550
01:13:52,520 --> 01:14:00,560
honestly don't think about it that often, but uh, I

1551
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,159
think I really enjoyed getting to I mean, that's what

1552
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:07,279
Generation Kill was, right, It's really a story about they

1553
01:14:07,319 --> 01:14:10,920
weren't necessarily all buddies, but it's a story about a

1554
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,880
bunch of freaking dudes hanging out with each other. Yeah,

1555
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:18,159
and I think that's what I fondly remember, was kind

1556
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:19,800
of getting to share that was my buddies.

1557
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like an adult field trip.

1558
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Uh, battleon was a fucking field trip.

1559
01:14:26,359 --> 01:14:28,640
That was a field trip. It was a war. I

1560
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:35,239
almost died for sure, But you know, again, the guys

1561
01:14:35,279 --> 01:14:36,920
that I did that deployment with a lot of them

1562
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,920
went and did Fallujah. Yeah, that was some fucking That

1563
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,520
was some That was some shit.

1564
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: That strikes me from seeing the your documentary and even

1565
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,680
just like stuff I saw before about Fallujah and stuff

1566
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:54,560
like that, that seems like the most vietnam Esque portion

1567
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,279
of the Iraq War yeah, it's just like Charlie's in

1568
01:14:57,319 --> 01:15:01,680
the tree Slash, but like just night mayor fucking in

1569
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:02,279
the shit.

1570
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,199
Speaker 4: You didn't know what you were walking into, right at

1571
01:15:05,239 --> 01:15:09,720
any point? Yeah, uh those guys, uh and they never

1572
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:15,159
treated me any different uh not, you know. Uh, I

1573
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:17,199
came back from a deployment right when they were coming

1574
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:21,720
back from the Fallujah deployment. Deployment, and again, you know,

1575
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,159
they never treated me any differently. We picked up where

1576
01:15:24,199 --> 01:15:26,479
we left off. There's still some of my dear friends

1577
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:31,039
this day, but I could tell something had happened over there. Yeah,

1578
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:33,000
they were a little more quiet than before.

1579
01:15:33,119 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1580
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were worn out.

1581
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,119
Speaker 1: I can't imagine, literally, I cannot fucking imagine.

1582
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:47,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, uh yeah yeah yeah. So the invasion of Iraq

1583
01:15:47,319 --> 01:15:49,159
compared to Fallujah, that was just like a might as

1584
01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:52,000
well just been a gunfight. Yeah, just everything.

1585
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,039
Speaker 1: Everyone's as cake as a war could be.

1586
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:58,279
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, the only thing so in hindsight, you know,

1587
01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:01,159
and I was nineteen, I had fucking energy back then.

1588
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,880
But man, we were not sleeping. Yeah, I was maybe

1589
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,079
averaging three or four hours a night at most.

1590
01:16:07,199 --> 01:16:08,399
Speaker 3: You penned down ripped heel.

1591
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we had uh yeah, we had all sorts

1592
01:16:12,199 --> 01:16:15,880
of uh, a little supplements here and there we were on.

1593
01:16:16,319 --> 01:16:19,199
I'd bean you would do anything to stay awake. I would.

1594
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,479
I would. I would jerk it, knowing that I wasn't

1595
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:29,560
actually gonna you know, yeah, just to stay awake. I would. Uh.

1596
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,520
I'd mix my Copenhagen if we had coping, I'd mix

1597
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,920
Copenhagen with Folger's coffee grinds. Hell, yeah, yeah, you're you're

1598
01:16:39,319 --> 01:16:41,880
using tobacco just to give yourself something to do to

1599
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:47,760
stay awake. Man, you would fall asleep. You guys would

1600
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,720
be in a you'd be in a pause and the vehicle,

1601
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,119
you know, everyone stopped. You don't know why. You're the

1602
01:16:53,119 --> 01:16:56,119
lowest ranking guy. You'd maybe be stopped for ten minutes.

1603
01:16:56,159 --> 01:16:57,800
You'd take a nap, and you'd feel like you got

1604
01:16:57,800 --> 01:16:59,720
fucking eight hours of sleep in that ten minute nap.

1605
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was tired. I was going to ask you, actually, how,

1606
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,399
if at all, did smoking like kind of gas you

1607
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,439
at all? Like you were you running? Were you ever

1608
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,640
like running or something like in the gunfight, like running

1609
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:15,239
to get the fucking wrench for your tires, and you

1610
01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:17,760
just like, oh god, damn it a little.

1611
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 4: Now you're in such good shape. Ah. We ran out

1612
01:17:22,039 --> 01:17:24,159
of all the cigarettes we brought with us, all of

1613
01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:26,920
our Marlboroughs and nice and big American brands, and we

1614
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:33,159
started having to buy Iraqi brands. They were called suomers.

1615
01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:37,319
They were Iraqi Blent tobacco. It was the nastiest shit

1616
01:17:37,399 --> 01:17:40,720
I've ever tasted. But you smoke all of them. Oh yeah,

1617
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:44,560
it was smoking cardboard. Man. It was so gross. But

1618
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,960
we we raided. I think it was those Recon guys

1619
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:54,760
raided the cigarette factory. The whole division got replenished with

1620
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:55,680
free cigarettes.

1621
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:57,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, decent ones.

1622
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,239
Speaker 4: They were gross. No, they were summers. They were It

1623
01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:02,199
was like Iraqi tobacco.

1624
01:18:03,239 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even good cigarette tobacco is still like it's growth,

1625
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:07,399
the lowest form.

1626
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, it's the lowest form of smoking, right right. Yeah?

1627
01:18:11,319 --> 01:18:13,560
Oh man, that's all you have.

1628
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,079
Speaker 1: Any more questions? But it's all I got.

1629
01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:17,239
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think he covered everything.

1630
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1631
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,319
Speaker 4: I appreciate this because I I don't know if I

1632
01:18:20,359 --> 01:18:23,760
could tell you a day by day recollection of everything

1633
01:18:24,079 --> 01:18:26,920
that happened, But I have memories.

1634
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:28,079
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know. It's just it's like

1635
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,239
for me, if it had been me, I would have

1636
01:18:31,239 --> 01:18:34,479
at some point been like I wonder where does this

1637
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,279
fit into history? Like what did I? Where does what

1638
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:38,680
I just did fit into history? And I just wanted

1639
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:42,359
to Honestly, my main question is just like did that

1640
01:18:42,359 --> 01:18:42,960
ever even.

1641
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:43,239
Speaker 4: Occur to you?

1642
01:18:43,279 --> 01:18:45,079
Speaker 1: Do you think about it now? Like what kind of

1643
01:18:45,159 --> 01:18:46,560
historical event did I take place?

1644
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about it like right now because we're doing

1645
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:51,840
a show on it, So that is I suppose, yeah,

1646
01:18:52,079 --> 01:18:56,319
has got me thinking about where that uh stands in history.

1647
01:18:56,359 --> 01:18:59,880
But I I just assume that younger people don't give

1648
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:02,960
it shit. Yeah, And I don't think that's necessarily a

1649
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,319
bad thing because other than the invasion of Iraq and

1650
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,359
maybe Fallujah, no one really fucking gave a ship when

1651
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:10,560
we were there for ten years.

1652
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.

1653
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 4: News, no, And it's like that's why I compare it

1654
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,720
to the Korean War, where it's like everyone kind of

1655
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:19,079
just forgot we were over there.

1656
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:21,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1657
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 3: Although my grandfather described Korea as the best years of

1658
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:25,399
his life.

1659
01:19:26,039 --> 01:19:28,199
Speaker 4: Really, Yeah what years was he was he there for?

1660
01:19:28,319 --> 01:19:30,920
Like the heavy fighting in the late forty Yeah, but.

1661
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:32,560
Speaker 3: He fixed plans. He was in the Air Force, oh yeah,

1662
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:34,039
and he said he just went from base to base

1663
01:19:34,079 --> 01:19:35,600
and played basketball and fixed planes.

1664
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:40,279
Speaker 4: Do you know who were wingmen in Korea together?

1665
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 1: It was Ted Williams and John Glynn.

1666
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,119
Speaker 4: That's fucking They flew like fucking ten missions together.

1667
01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:48,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, Williams has bodies.

1668
01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, when you look at his baseball resume and

1669
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:54,760
you see those those period, those three or four years

1670
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:56,880
because of World War Two and Korea.

1671
01:19:57,039 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: I don't think he actually got to do anything in

1672
01:19:58,800 --> 01:19:59,359
World War Two.

1673
01:19:59,359 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 4: No, No, he was late to the game, but he

1674
01:20:01,039 --> 01:20:02,479
It still took him out of the league for like

1675
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:02,960
two years.

1676
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:04,520
Speaker 1: Now he would have been Dude.

1677
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,520
Speaker 4: He literally comes back from World War Two? When's the

1678
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,239
when's the American League? MVP batting titles, goes to Korea,

1679
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:13,640
comes back from that, when's the fucking American League?

1680
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 1: He's probably the greatest baseball player of all time if

1681
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:18,000
he didn't go to war.

1682
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:19,199
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1683
01:20:19,359 --> 01:20:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1684
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:23,239
Speaker 3: And eventually when the technology gets there will unfreeze Ted

1685
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:24,680
Williams seven years ago.

1686
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 4: Well get him back in the lineup.

1687
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,399
Speaker 3: No, but we'll interview him on the show. Yes, also that.

1688
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hey, we're doing an episode on Korea.

1689
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us about it. I don't wan to hear

1690
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:35,119
about your hitting. I don't want to hear about where

1691
01:20:35,119 --> 01:20:36,800
you're where you're ask him about where your son is.

1692
01:20:37,199 --> 01:20:40,560
He's dead too, Where am I? Yeah? Just fucking answer

1693
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:41,560
our questions about Korea?

1694
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 4: All right?

1695
01:20:42,039 --> 01:20:42,279
Speaker 1: Ted?

1696
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:43,479
Speaker 4: Why why were you?

1697
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 1: Why did you write anybody? You were Mexican? I'm so

1698
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:47,479
ashamed of that?

1699
01:20:49,399 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 3: Was he?

1700
01:20:50,039 --> 01:20:50,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1701
01:20:50,359 --> 01:20:51,159
Speaker 4: His mom is Mexican.

1702
01:20:51,199 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: That's really funny.

1703
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 4: Yeah he was born in California when he's from San Diego,

1704
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:54,239
I believe. Yeah.

1705
01:20:54,359 --> 01:20:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well that's all I got for today. Jack, This

1706
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:59,119
has been Thank you guys.

1707
01:20:59,359 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 4: This is good.

1708
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,119
Speaker 1: Where can they find you Jacked History? Talk about that

1709
01:21:02,119 --> 01:21:02,560
real quick?

1710
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,359
Speaker 4: Oh? Jack? Thank you guys. And I've always said you're

1711
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:09,039
my favorite podcast, history podcast. I listen to you guys

1712
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:12,039
all the time. I started my own history show on YouTube.

1713
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:18,600
It's called Jacked History. Jack Ed History, And you know,

1714
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:24,000
I do average twelve to fifteen minute videos. And like

1715
01:21:24,039 --> 01:21:26,119
I said, I'm not trying to change the world. I

1716
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:28,760
want people to be entertained and have something fun to

1717
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:29,920
tell their buddies at the bar.

1718
01:21:30,079 --> 01:21:32,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Where what was the most recent episode on?

1719
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:34,079
Speaker 4: I did the most recent episode?

1720
01:21:35,239 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 1: I guess athletes.

1721
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, comparing the athletes of ancient Rome to the

1722
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,439
athletes of today and how they're really not that much different.

1723
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,760
I think people act like athletes having a certain social

1724
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,560
standing is a new phenomenon. It's not athletes who were

1725
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,439
at the top of their game were well compensated in

1726
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,479
Ancient Rome and had pretty nice lives.

1727
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like peak Rome, pops mona ye athletes. Yeah,

1728
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,479
because I know in Eastern Rome. Later we did an

1729
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:06,760
episode on the chariot Racers because chariot racing was like

1730
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,600
the NFL to the Byzantine Empire. Yes, they were also.

1731
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:10,600
Speaker 3: And fandom was insane.

1732
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1733
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, you're cheering for like the Greens or yes, the.

1734
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,159
Speaker 1: Reds, Guias, Diocles.

1735
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,560
Speaker 4: Uh they say they they estimate he wasn't the richest

1736
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,920
athlete of ancient Rome. He was the richest athlete of

1737
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:26,840
all time. Yeah. So like again, a guy like Lebron

1738
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,640
or Michael Jordan creating generational wealth for being good at

1739
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,880
their job. That's not unheard of in history.

1740
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:38,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good, good to know. Check out jacked History on

1741
01:22:38,399 --> 01:22:40,319
YouTube and maybe soon on Spotify.

1742
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm going to toss it up on the I

1743
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,840
guess you can do videos on Spotify now, so might

1744
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:50,359
as well get that revenue from Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I

1745
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:55,279
just was able to monetize after two episodes. Very lucky.

1746
01:22:55,279 --> 01:22:57,760
I'm at a good pace right now, and it's nice

1747
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,000
seeing that those dollars grow in the thing every day.

1748
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:06,520
Yeah so yeah, yeah, I uh, it's been a long

1749
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,079
time coming. I've done I've worked for a lot of

1750
01:23:09,079 --> 01:23:11,039
people over the years. I've done a lot of stuff

1751
01:23:11,039 --> 01:23:14,119
for other people. This is I'm doing, doing my own thing,

1752
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:15,159
and it's exciting.

1753
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 1: Time for Jack to get I agree, Yeah, I can agree.

1754
01:23:18,319 --> 01:23:20,560
Speaker 4: I'm just used to being a supporting character and I'm

1755
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,399
I'm I've become comfortable in that. But I gotta I

1756
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:25,840
gotta be the guy's main character energy now, I gotta

1757
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:27,000
I gotta be a main character.

1758
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:27,399
Speaker 1: Goddamn.

1759
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, well the hair, I think, yes, yeah, well

1760
01:23:31,159 --> 01:23:32,840
that's a problem. It's hard to make a guy that

1761
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:38,399
looks like me a main character. No traditional looks. Typically

1762
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:40,800
the hair spectacular. Right now, you got a little bun going.

1763
01:23:41,119 --> 01:23:44,159
Oh yeah, this is my professional Jack. When I want

1764
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:46,760
to get into when I want to be stupid Internet Jack,

1765
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,600
that's when I let the hair down. But we're talking serious.

1766
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:51,800
We're talking war here, We're talking serious stuff.

1767
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 1: That aan member of a historical community.

1768
01:23:55,279 --> 01:24:01,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, we invaded a country. It's pretty sweet. Yeah,

1769
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,319
pretty cool. I got to I got to loot Saddam's palace.

1770
01:24:04,399 --> 01:24:05,439
Not a lot of people got to say.

1771
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:07,399
Speaker 3: Ye know, if you have that pillow, bring it.

1772
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:08,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.

1773
01:24:08,399 --> 01:24:09,520
Speaker 4: It's in my storage facility.

1774
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 3: We'll put it in the set.

1775
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, put that on the set.

1776
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,239
Speaker 4: It's still like because it's a white it's like a

1777
01:24:15,279 --> 01:24:19,119
silk pillow and it's there's a white flower, and uh,

1778
01:24:19,279 --> 01:24:21,760
you could tell my ass was sweating on that pillow.

1779
01:24:22,039 --> 01:24:23,880
I don't think I've ever washed it. You shouldn't.

1780
01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I have the shout of touring at this point.

1781
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:27,560
You got to just let it be.

1782
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think I have some berets and other stuff.

1783
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:38,319
I have a Quran. You know, don't bring kar You've

1784
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:40,239
never taken a You've never taken a Bible from a

1785
01:24:40,239 --> 01:24:40,960
hotel before?

1786
01:24:41,319 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 1: Uh No, they're not Catholic Bibles usually, So I'm just, oh, yeah,

1787
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:45,520
it's basically fake.

1788
01:24:46,199 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 4: Yeah. I learned so much about Catholicism by listening to

1789
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,640
y'all's show. I learned more about I know, like Catholic

1790
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,079
history obviously that's well recorded, but like what it is

1791
01:24:57,119 --> 01:25:00,159
to be Catholic. I've learned the most about just what

1792
01:25:00,199 --> 01:25:02,119
it's like to be Catholic listening to you guys.

1793
01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:03,199
Speaker 3: It's more of a culture thing.

1794
01:25:03,319 --> 01:25:06,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all I equate it to, Like, it's the same,

1795
01:25:06,119 --> 01:25:08,399
almost the same as being like Jewish at this point, right,

1796
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:13,039
not in terms of like the consequences you might encounter from.

1797
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,720
Speaker 4: The Catholic guilt and Jewish guilt, right in.

1798
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 1: Terms of just like the religion being as much of

1799
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,039
a culture as it is a religion. Yeah, it's very similar, yeah,

1800
01:25:21,079 --> 01:25:24,560
I think, oh yeah, yeah, and it's not as crazy

1801
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,119
as like Mormonism or something like that, because that's a

1802
01:25:27,119 --> 01:25:29,239
whole separate yeah, bag.

1803
01:25:29,359 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but at least us in the Mormons have a

1804
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,920
football team, true, true.

1805
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,159
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's true. Notre Dame and b Yu.

1806
01:25:35,399 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the Jewish college football team?

1807
01:25:38,199 --> 01:25:40,239
Speaker 1: Is there even a Hebrew college? I mean, I'm sure

1808
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:42,319
there's a Hebrew college somewhere, but not not d One.

1809
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, n Yu, no football team?

1810
01:25:46,239 --> 01:25:49,119
Speaker 1: They got a basketball team? Yeah, Well that's all I got.

1811
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:50,560
Speaker 3: It's probably Florid Atlantic.

1812
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. That's all I got for today, Jack,

1813
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:57,159
Thank you, thank you so much for being here. Awesome

1814
01:25:57,159 --> 01:25:59,279
episode for Thanks for having me on that Jan Jester

1815
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:02,199
and jack Man Lum Rob Fox, you just gut saw

1816
01:26:02,279 --> 01:26:02,600
served