WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.000 How'd you like to listen to dot net Rocks with 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.240 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:17.679 We'll get you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. 6 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:34.920 Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, 7 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:38.399 welcome back to dot net Rocks, the Internet audio talk 8 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:40.479 show for dot net developers. I haven't said dot in 9 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:41.359 about twelve years. 10 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:41.840 There you go. 11 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.000 I'm Carl Franklin, an AMATE account. We got the UNO 12 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:47.920 guys here with us today. I'm really psyched about that, Richard. 13 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:49.719 But what's new with you? 14 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:51.840 Well, the theory. It's twenty twenty six now. Of course 15 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:53.799 we're still recording us back in twenty twenty five. But 16 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.600 I'm back home after what ten weeks of travels? 17 00:00:56.679 --> 00:00:59.960 So yeah home, good gy levanting, Yeah good. 18 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:01.759 There was much manting. 19 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.920 I don't really have much small talk other than to 20 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.400 say we should probably just roll the crazy music for 21 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:18.280 better no framework, all right, all right, So I have 22 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:22.280 never used a media manager like PLEX or anything like that, 23 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:27.319 but I know people love these things. Sure, And there's now. Well, 24 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:29.799 I don't know if now, but it's trending. A free 25 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.920 software media system on GitHub called jelly Finn. Have you 26 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.000 guys heard of this? Oh yeah, no, Sam Jeron, have 27 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:37.760 you heard of this thing? 28 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:39.920 Yes? I heard a bit. 29 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:40.280 Ok. 30 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:44.439 Yeah. So it's a free software media system that puts 31 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.480 you in control of managing and streaming your media. It's 32 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.760 an alternative to the proprietary MB and flex to provide 33 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.319 media from a dedicated server to end user devices. We 34 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.760 have multiple apps. It's descended from MB's three point five 35 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:03.840 point two release, imported to the dot net platform to 36 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:08.560 enable full cross platform support, no strings attached, no premium 37 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:12.280 licenses or features, so you know, naturally, I think our 38 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:13.520 listeners will like that. 39 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:14.280 It's nice. 40 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.840 Yeah, as long as it's containerized, that's good. 41 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:18.080 Yeah. 42 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.360 Yeah, well it's dot net, it must be able to 43 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.800 be containerized, so no learning. Love it. That's all I got. Richard, 44 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:25.520 who's talking to. 45 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.800 Us, grabbed a comment of a show nineteen eighty, the 46 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:31.400 one we did with Gary ewen Park. We were talking 47 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:33.120 a bit about package management of the whole. Got a 48 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:35.000 couple of nice comments off of that one, not the 49 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:37.840 least of which saying, hey, thanks for uniget ui. That's 50 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.520 just what I needed. Yeah, but a comment I wanted 51 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:43.879 to read was from Lucas, who said, hey, can you 52 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.439 keep the yearly intros please, especially the tech and aerospace parts. 53 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.080 It's extremely enjoyable, like drinking hot chocolate with marshmallows. Very cool. Nice. 54 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.639 Yeah, we got a mixed bag because we got one 55 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:57.439 comment that was like, geez, it's taken so long to 56 00:02:57.479 --> 00:02:58.240 get to the guests. 57 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:00.800 All right, it's always a question should we just cut 58 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.199 right to it or do you know there's preambles useful? 59 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.400 But well, the good news for these people who find it, 60 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:08.960 you know, too long, is that next year will be 61 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.879 done because we'll catch up to twenty twenty five. 62 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:14.080 We're gonna hit two thousand and two and loop out. 63 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:14.919 Is that what's going to happen? 64 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:18.439 Okay, twenty twenty six, No, twenty twenty six, Yeah, twenty 65 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:21.080 twenty six, Okay, yeah, that'll be the last one in 66 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.680 Maybe that's you know, arguably, we could probably stop now 67 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:29.520 because everybody was probably born back in these days. 68 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.199 Yeah, I know, we don't want to get too far 69 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:32.280 in the future. Then what will you do? 70 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:33.039 That's true. 71 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:35.879 Lucas goes on to say, you kept going back to 72 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:37.840 how crazy it is for someone to be running a 73 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:41.800 dot net framework in Windows twenty twelve system. Personally, I 74 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.159 you know a few like this. They were built, deployed 75 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.960 and there is no more budget to do anything with 76 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.360 it except basic maintenance and bug fixes. Not looking far 77 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.159 the core component of Power Platform Data versus Dynamics CRM 78 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:56.000 twenty eleven with some makeup on it. I guess was 79 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.000 our ad ins runs on. Iis with ASP dot net 80 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:03.080 web forms and dot net four six two the plug 81 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.439 in samdbox, which is where most of the business logic 82 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:09.879 lives on twenty twelve. This is a premium Microsoft business 83 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:12.840 offering that still runs on old tech because of backward compatibility, 84 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:17.279 upgrade costs, and loss of talent because these days everything 85 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.000 is outsourced, right, which is interesting because that you know, 86 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.160 how long before you cannot outsource work on a four 87 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:26.680 to six y two app? You know, like those people 88 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:28.000 will eventually go away too. 89 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.360 Hey it's gonna help, Yeah, we can tell. 90 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.839 Well that's you know, you make the perier points you're own, 91 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:40.959 which is that modernization tools have been gotten dramatically better. 92 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.360 Oh yes, like the the use of LLMS in modernizing 93 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.720 old applications and so forth. Means you just don't need 94 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:49.839 the same skill set to rehab these things. So it 95 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:53.560 is interesting to see how these things move forward. But Lucas, 96 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.079 thank you so much for your comment, and a copy 97 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:56.519 of music Code is on its way to you. And 98 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:57.920 if you'd like a copy of music co buy, I 99 00:04:57.959 --> 00:04:59.639 right a comment on the website at dot at rocks 100 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.079 dot com or on the facebooks. You publish every show there, 101 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:03.560 and if you comment there and I reading the show, 102 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:05.279 we'll send you copy of Musico. 103 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.720 Music to Koba, still being used by thousands of developers 104 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:12.920 to stay in focus. Twenty five minute long tracks. There's 105 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.720 twenty two of them now. I'm still working on twenty three. 106 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.920 But that should be here before Christmas, which means that 107 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.040 you already missed it should be already here. Okay, yeah, 108 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.399 So yeah, that's it. Music to go by dot net 109 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.720 if you want to get the collection in wave, flak 110 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.120 or MP three formats. So let's talk about what happened 111 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.000 in nineteen eighty four, and so much stuff happened. We're 112 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.480 going to keep this list pretty short, sure, because this 113 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.839 is episode nineteen eighty four. Brunei gained full independence from 114 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:49.160 the UK on January first, and Derek Gandhi was assassinated 115 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.319 Prime Minister of India on October thirty first. The first 116 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.519 embryo transfer on February third, from one woman to another 117 00:05:58.680 --> 00:05:59.920 resulted in a live birth. 118 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:00.480 Wow. 119 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.439 Summer Olympics for held in Los Angeles from July twenty 120 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.399 eight to August twelfth. Van Halen released their album nineteen 121 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.959 eighty four on January ninth, which was a huge hit. 122 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.199 And there are so many good movies that came out 123 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:20.399 in nineteen eighty four. I'll just list a few. The Terminator, I'medais, 124 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:24.519 Once Upon a Time in America, Indiana, Jones and The 125 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:30.240 Temple of Dune, Ghostbusters, Nightmare on Elm Street. This is 126 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:39.240 spinal tap, moment of silence for Rob Reiner. Yeah, very sad, Gremlins, 127 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.160 Beverly Hills Cop and the Karate Kid. 128 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.560 That is a crazy roster crazy Yeah. 129 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.720 The Karate Kid, Holy crap, I mean yeah. And that's 130 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.480 just like the top ten. So that's what I got. 131 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.079 Richard talk about space and technology in nineteen eighty four. 132 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.600 All the action in space in nineteen eighty four is 133 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.120 shuttle flights, primarily. I'm not going to go with all 134 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.879 those actually six of them, three for Discovery and three 135 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.079 for Challenger, which is interesting because like, how are they 136 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.079 going so fast? Because this is before the Challenger disaster 137 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:11.560 and everything slows down. Columbia doesn't fly at all in 138 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.639 nineteen eighty four. I fect you won't fly again until 139 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:15.439 nineteen eighty nine because she's in the midst of a 140 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.279 refit having flown the first six missions and now is 141 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:21.360 going to have her objection seats removed and some other 142 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:26.360 upgrades and things done to her. Of the most interesting 143 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.480 flights for that year. This is the year of the 144 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:34.120 manned maneuvering unit. So the fourth flight of Challenger STS 145 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:38.319 forty one B Bruce McCandless puts on a suit basically 146 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.040 a space suit with a chair attached to it that 147 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:43.560 he can fly, and he's now his own portable spacecraft 148 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:49.199 and does the first other completely untethered flight away from 149 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.120 a shuttle and first time any human's ever flown completely alone. 150 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.360 Pretty amazing in a space He went about three hundred 151 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.720 feet roughly ninety meters away from Challenger. Apparently one of 152 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:01.879 the goals of the mission was at some point he 153 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.439 was supposed to turn away from Challenger and like look 154 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.199 Out in the darkness of space, and he never did it, 155 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.680 so I strongly suspect he was a little nervous out there. 156 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:13.519 Apparently he was really cold, actually turn the cooling systems 157 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.800 off to try and stay comfortable. But this is the 158 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.720 only year that the MMus will be used, and they 159 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.319 will be used later. There'll be another mission where they'll 160 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.720 launch a pair space of satellites Westar six and PAPLA 161 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:33.200 B two, and neither one of them will actually fire 162 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.960 their boosters and go into their correct orbits, and so 163 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.440 later that year they'll come back out in another shuttle 164 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:44.120 and use the MMus to retrieve those satellites, repair them, 165 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.679 and finish their flights. There was one other mission, the 166 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:48.879 Solar Maxim mission, where they tried to use THEMMU to 167 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:51.200 retrieve the satellite but couldn't lock onto it. There was 168 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:53.600 things in the way, and so they ended up doing 169 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.360 it entirely manually by getting the shuttle close to enough 170 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.399 to it and stopping it by hand. Wow, with three people, 171 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.039 a little crazy, but that is nuts. They were able 172 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.200 to retrieve the smm and repair it and get it 173 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.759 on its way. So you know, this is a period 174 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:09.039 of shuttle and I think a lot of people have 175 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.879 forgotten about where they were launching satellites, retrieving and repairing satellites, 176 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.919 all of which will end in nineteen eighty six after 177 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.799 the Challenger disaster. And so the MMU was used on 178 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.039 three flights in eighty four and never used again. 179 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.120 How much money did they spend on all that stuff? 180 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:25.879 Quite a bit? 181 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:27.519 But yet billions and billions. 182 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:30.840 Yeah, it's not that expensive. Okay, this is the year 183 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:34.759 that Ronald Reagan approves a space station design. The time, 184 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.159 the specification was for less than eight billion dollars and 185 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:38.960 no more than eight billion dollars. They were very wrong 186 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.639 about that. There were eight different designs proposed. The ones 187 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:44.159 selected they called the Power Tower, which is actually kind 188 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.639 of similar to the ISS. It had four big solar 189 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.919 panels about seventy five kilowatts worth and a long main 190 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:55.120 spine that would house various units. This is not the 191 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:56.960 course of the station that would get launched. They were 192 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:58.799 supposed launch just one in nineteen einety one, and it 193 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.960 would be built over twelve admissions. The ISS, of course, 194 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.799 comes almost a decade later, with far more international cooperation 195 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.639 and a lot more flights. On the computing side, this 196 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.960 two different computers launched by IBM. This, of course, the 197 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:15.960 original IBM PC was a few years before. This is 198 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.000 the year of the PC junior code named Peanut Oh, 199 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:21.879 with an eighty eighty eight one hundred and twenty K 200 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.600 of RAM. It was about thirteen hundred dollars and a 201 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:29.080 complete failure. They sold a couple hundred times. But also 202 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.360 the year of the model fifty one to seventy, also 203 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.720 known as the PCAT. This was a much more expensive machine, 204 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:38.320 about six thousand retail when it came out with a 205 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:42.320 two to eighty six six gigahertz later upgraded to or sorry, 206 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:47.879 six megahertz later upgraded to eight megahertz. You get it 207 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:49.639 with two hundred fifty six or five hundred twelve K 208 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.840 on board upgradable to three and a half megs with cards, 209 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.120 a twenty megabyte hard drive. That was the AT part 210 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:01.000 and the ever amazing EGA or in ANST graphics. Yes 211 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.159 that's right, six forty by three point fifty with sixteen colors. 212 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.639 Sixteen colors, yeah, on a nine pin connector. 213 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:13.279 I upgraded from an XT turbo clone to an AT 214 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.799 and then to a three eighty six later, and at 215 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.080 each level I was like, oh my god, this is 216 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:19.639 faster than anyone will ever need. 217 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:20.559 It was such a big. 218 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.960 Because I was judging it by how fast it printed 219 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:24.840 text on the screen. That's it. 220 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.080 That, you know. This is the horsepower race. Same year 221 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:35.240 that the famous Apple nineteen eighty four commercial comes out 222 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.360 at the Super Bowl. It is shown exactly once and 223 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.639 announces the Macintosh computer, which we released later that year. 224 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.919 Also the year that CD ROMs, initially made by Sony 225 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:49.320 and then by everybody come out in the idea of 226 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.840 multimedia in computers, the idea that we'd have music and 227 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.960 sound and graphics and video all synchronized. 228 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.039 I remember that year there was a mac commercial on 229 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:05.639 TV where father is putting together a PC and he 230 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.240 says to a kid, want to see some dinosaurs? Billy, yeah, Dad, 231 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:17.080 all right, let's any guys typing configus. He's like, dinosaurs now, Dad, yeah, yeah, yeah, 232 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:21.919 hang on a second Auto exec bat buffers dinosaurs, Dad 233 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:24.120 yeah yeah, give me a mite, you know, And then 234 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.639 he finally says, I'm going to David's house. 235 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.080 He's got mad nice. 236 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:33.840 It was just the first and a whole bunch of 237 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.320 slam rubbit in Windows Faces commercials that would come later. 238 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.840 Last, but not least certainly not for me. The book 239 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.799 Neuromancer is published by author is William Gibson. He's out 240 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:49.879 of Vancouver and he's the guy who coined this term cyberspace. 241 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.240 Right well, writing that book on a wedgewood typewriter. Awesome, yeah, 242 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.799 very cool. Apparently it's finally being made into a TV 243 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:57.759 show or a movie or something after all these years. 244 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.879 Awesome, all right, Sam and Jerome, we. 245 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:04.240 Are, yes, sir, And for what it's worth, I really 246 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:09.200 enjoy the year Retrospectives and Past twenty twenty five, twenty six. 247 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:10.919 I think you should go on for at least another 248 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:14.639 one hundred more to see how far off we are. 249 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.639 Going to the future. Right all right, Well, that was 250 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:21.360 the voice of Sam Bassu. He's a technologist, author, speaker, 251 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:26.039 Microsoft MVP and developer advocate for the UNO platform. With 252 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.639 a long developer background, he now spends much of his 253 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.200 time advocating modern development platforms and AI tools for cross 254 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.279 platform technology stacks. His spare time, this is the best part. 255 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.320 His spare times call for travel, fast cars, cricket, and 256 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.559 culinary adventures. And you can find him on the internet. 257 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.480 Sure, I am so thank you for having me. I 258 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.000 think it's my fourth or fifth with you folks, and 259 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.000 Jerome Provd is the same. 260 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.360 And Jerome Lebon is here. He's been programming since nineteen 261 00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:59.000 ninety eight, mainly involved in dot net and see sharp 262 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.600 development as a teacher, trainer consultant in France. He is 263 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.000 the CTO of the UNO platform, a framework trying to 264 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:12.039 improve the development cycle of cross platform apps using Windows, iOS, 265 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:16.879 Android and web assembly using Mono and zamorin Welcome Jerome. 266 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.799 Well, thank you, well well anoyse that mean, it's been 267 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:21.840 a while. It's the it's full dotte that now and 268 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.039 uh and of course you all right others, So yeah, 269 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.879 it's been it's been a while. You know, technologies have 270 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:26.600 been evolving. 271 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.679 Somebody needs to update their bio on the UNO website. 272 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.080 Oh yeah, I do need I do need to update 273 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:34.279 that for sure, probably step in some of a I 274 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.320 then it's been yeah, I've been doing that for for 275 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:38.600 a few months now. 276 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:44.000 It's you changing, yes, yes, well, welcome to you both. 277 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:47.559 And it's been a while since we talked to anyone 278 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.559 about who know for you know, for a while. But 279 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.519 bring us up to speed. What are you guys doing, 280 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.279 What are you working on? 281 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.559 Yeah, let me start and thank you again for having us. 282 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.480 So I'll go start with the basics here, because I'm 283 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.159 sure Jeri has talked about it like a thousand times now. 284 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:06.039 But you know, here we are end of twenty twenty five, 285 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.840 starting out twenty twenty six, and UNA platform as it 286 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.639 stands today is the most flexible, mature, open source stack 287 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.279 for dot net developers to build cross platform apps that 288 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.399 simply run everywhere, single shared code base. But you know, 289 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.759 we take you to iOS and Android for mobile, you know, 290 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.399 web browser web assembly that's done, and then Windows and. 291 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.480 Not using Mono or zamorin right. 292 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.879 No, no, no, actually no it is it is. It 293 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.440 is Mono for the web. Yes, it's the Mono VM underneath. 294 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:44.960 So you know it's not completely outdated. Okay, it's moving, 295 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.480 you know, Maxaft is moving to use corclr on the web, 296 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:49.440 but it's not there yet. 297 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:53.000 Okay continues Yeah, and then all of the you know, 298 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:57.440 desktop and embedded devices, Windows, mac Os and Linux and 299 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:01.399 everywhere else you want. So that's the stack, and that's 300 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.879 always been open source and very welcoming to everybody. We 301 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.440 have been working a lot on tooling, trying to squeeze 302 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:13.159 out every bit of productivity that we can from developers. 303 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:15.759 And I know it's been a while since we talked 304 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.320 to gave the elevator pitch about UNO. But what is 305 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.720 the the UI technology that you're using, Like you know, 306 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.879 some people use Ammal, Blazer uses mark up. What is 307 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:26.519 your stack? 308 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.279 So yeah, so you know is enzammle. You know, so 309 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.559 Zammal and sea Sharp. So we have two ways for 310 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.600 people to to do UI in that sense, we know 311 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.200 that not everyone's using Exammle or love Examle. So that's 312 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.120 why we introduced a few years back sea sharp markup, 313 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.519 so there's a way to pretty much express the same 314 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:51.919 UI but using Sea Sharp constructs. The Sambal flavor is 315 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.120 is the win UY one and so it's using the 316 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.799 same type of type of constructs that that winnipe is 317 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.759 DK and and win Uy three has been using for 318 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:05.599 a while. So we're providing that that same that same experience. 319 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.559 On top of that, we we have also everything is 320 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.559 non uy and that's the important part pretty much, you 321 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.839 know win our team, so we're talking about sensors, file 322 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:20.400 system access, resources, access, you know, networking and everything like that, 323 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.440 and that that is another core component of we know 324 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.480 to be able to provide unified a p I for 325 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.640 actually saying everything, uh, using one code base everywhere. 326 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.599 So how does dot net ten impact you guys, because 327 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.119 we just got past the latest dot Net cop and 328 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:38.680 there were a lot of announcements and obviously a new 329 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:39.599 version of the framework. 330 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.880 Yeah, so I can tell you that. So huge performance improvements. Obviously, 331 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.079 you know we all wait for Steven Tubes. Uh, you know, 332 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:52.240 novel of a blog post, the greatest blog post ever, 333 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:54.799 right right, to have to take two days off to 334 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:58.720 read it. But it's amazing. And every you know, November, 335 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:00.680 we get a new dot Net and every time there 336 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.440 is you know, new performance tuning. So absolutely we gain 337 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.880 all the performance improvements. But also dot net is a 338 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.400 very you know, open and welcoming stack, so we actually 339 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.720 partner up with the dot net teams over at Microsoft, 340 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.519 and you know, we have very you know deep expertise 341 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.279 in certain parts of the dot net stack, especially how 342 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.880 it relates to iOS and Android and you know native 343 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.119 AOT and Skia rendering, so we actually help and maintain 344 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.119 parts of that stack. So it's all out in the open. 345 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.799 So we are collaborating and you know, moving the whole 346 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.000 ecosystem forward. 347 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:41.240 Together, modernizing existing applications to dot net ten. Isn't just 348 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:45.480 an option now, it's necessary. I mean we I have 349 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:50.119 a customer that we are doing that with an aspnut 350 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.680 web forms application. In some cases they were creating UI 351 00:18:54.839 --> 00:19:00.279 and concatenating strings of HTML together with code, and we 352 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.920 changed that to use dot net ten and span of 353 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.000 T and we got up to a five thousand percent 354 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.799 increase in speed. I mean, you think about that for 355 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:11.200 a minute. 356 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.079 Yeah, it is nice. 357 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.240 Yeah, the performance improvements are there, you know, everything related 358 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.480 to span and to you know, refstruck and everything like that. 359 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.720 We're using that extensively inside of you know, and every 360 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.400 every duration of dot net is bringing us you know, 361 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:28.359 significant performance improvements and uh, you know, it's it's always 362 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.279 a pleasure to see, as Sam said, and you to 363 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.519 see h uh, Stefan will provide all of those two 364 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.519 bits of information for each platform, and you know, we're 365 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:39.680 we're seeing in the future, you know, everything that's that's 366 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.640 converging to core c l R having the same kind 367 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.240 of improvements everywhere the web is going to be very 368 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.960 interesting to see in the upcoming version of dot net 369 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.480 to have the same kind of you know, uh, smaller 370 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.319 and down to the down to the up codes. They're 371 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.880 executed in every single platform and wasn't included. Getting everything 372 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:03.720 you know, optimized to the to the maximum is going 373 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.640 to be very interesting. So it's uh, it's very nice 374 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.440 to see for at every iteration, you know, to the enhancements. 375 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.359 We need tooling to be good with what we do. 376 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.240 So VS twenty twenty six is out of Visual Studio 377 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:20.319 called ships so often, so it's a good time. 378 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.799 I love twenty twenty six, really good stuff. 379 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:23.160 Hey. 380 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.240 They also improved the workloads of dot net. You know, 381 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.079 it's been the most infamous part of of not that deployment. 382 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.720 Uh you know, it was it was being used by 383 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.200 OS and Android for for a long time that wasn't 384 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.160 started using it and then Spider uses it now. So 385 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.920 it makes for everything go a lot faster, a lot 386 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.480 faster and smooth. And it's been a while since I've 387 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:50.519 wined against anything related to workloads, so it's a good 388 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:54.960 thing they've improved that quite a bit. And uh, you know, 389 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.839 we we have no check when when you want to 390 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.279 install and start with we know, so we start with 391 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.480 no check and then and install everything and we just 392 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.240 call that up installed everything that's needed and off you go. 393 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.200 It's it's getting very easy with to start to get 394 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:09.880 started without that. 395 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.000 Yeah, I'm always finding an interesting schism between you know, 396 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.519 where do beginners go because people tend to send them 397 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:18.400 to Visual Studio Code, but then they still have to 398 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.880 figure out all of the bits they're going to need. 399 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.119 Where Visual Studio has everything in there, but it's so 400 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.079 intimidating when you fire it up, like it's kind of unfair, 401 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.200