Speaker 1: All right, let's get a drivetime Wednesday afternoon night and
Speaker 1: minutes past the hour of two o'clock.
Speaker 2: It is another.
Speaker 1: Scorching hot Utah July day outside and as it is
Speaker 1: every single day, it's going to have you along for
Speaker 1: the ride.
Speaker 2: Spence check, it's beyond.
Speaker 1: The Mic James is getting us on air today pulling
Speaker 1: double duty.
Speaker 2: Porter will be along for the ride. Coming up in
Speaker 2: just a little bit.
Speaker 1: We have a jam packed, busy show on this Wednesday
Speaker 1: afternoon edition of the program.
Speaker 2: It is a Friday for us.
Speaker 1: We have Pioneer Day off and then we're gonna have
Speaker 1: a best of show on Friday. We'll be back with
Speaker 1: live programming coming up on Monday of next week. But
Speaker 1: we have a lot to do on the program today.
Speaker 1: Day two a Big Ten Media Days at Mandala a
Speaker 1: Bay in Las Vegas. Day two of ACC Media Days
Speaker 1: in Charlotte, North Carolina. So a lot of college football
Speaker 1: conversation throughout the new cycle.
Speaker 2: Over the past twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Penn State picked to win the Big Ten this year,
Speaker 1: not Ohio State, not Oreon. They did do a preseason
Speaker 1: media poll, unlike our friends in the Big Twelve.
Speaker 2: Of course, Big Twelve Media Day SEC.
Speaker 1: Media day now behind US mount West Conference last week
Speaker 1: in Vegas. Utah State pick to finish ninth by the
Speaker 1: media preseason. Nike Larson named All Mountain West Conference preseason,
Speaker 1: the only Aggie to have that honor.
Speaker 2: Bronco Menenhall year one.
Speaker 1: For the Aggies up and Logan some interesting things to
Speaker 1: say about his decision making process. So we have a
Speaker 1: lot of college football to get to on the program today.
Speaker 1: The latest with the potential scheduling, uniformity conversation, the expanded
Speaker 1: CFP access for each conferences, automatic qualifiers and such. So
Speaker 1: we'll get into the college football storylines as we are
Speaker 1: less than forty days away. I believe it's thirty eight
Speaker 1: days away from Utah football right around the corner now,
Speaker 1: so a lot to get to. The New York Giants
Speaker 1: have named a starting quarterback. It is not Jackson Dart,
Speaker 1: not too surprising. It is Russell Wilson. Ryan Dayball came
Speaker 1: out today and made that announcement, So a little NFL
Speaker 1: on the program. Kyle Philipowski named Summer League MVP yesterday,
Speaker 1: so a nice honor for Kyle. The Jazz actually held
Speaker 1: an impromptu press conference kind of randomly or Kyle was
Speaker 1: able to talk about that honor and what he hopes
Speaker 1: to carry over year two as a pro basketball player
Speaker 1: after a really solid rookie season. Not a lot of
Speaker 1: NBA storylines, This is kind of a quiet time in
Speaker 1: the world of pro basketball. Of course, Dame Lillard officially
Speaker 1: back with the Blazers, Marcus smart As landed with the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I don't know that the Jazz are going to really
Speaker 1: do anything else, but a couple of interesting pieces out today,
Speaker 1: including the worst decision every team has made over the
Speaker 1: past five years, written by our friends at ESPN, and
Speaker 1: there's a Jazz angle here that we'll get to on
Speaker 1: the show. Our friends at the Athletic valued every college
Speaker 1: football program as if they were kind of doing an
Speaker 1: exercise to try to understand if a private equity firm
Speaker 1: wanted to buy a football team what that would cost
Speaker 1: both Utah and BYU on the list. We'll get to
Speaker 1: some of that kind of interesting storylines in that direction.
Speaker 1: It is the MLS All Star Game tonight. Did you
Speaker 1: know that you didn't be honest? MLS Skills Challenged last night.
Speaker 1: Diego Luna was featured the Summer Window for the World
Speaker 1: of Professional Soccer opens tomorrow at least the world of
Speaker 1: Major League Soccer here domestically.
Speaker 2: Rumors are RSL is.
Speaker 1: Expected to add multiple pieces as soon as that news breaks,
Speaker 1: and his official We'll bring it to you Rayle saw
Speaker 1: Lake will be in action on Saturday, welcoming in an
Speaker 1: old friend is Chico, Orongo and San Jose rolling to
Speaker 1: town to take on RSL for a seven thirty first
Speaker 1: kick in Sandy. The game is on MLS Season Pass
Speaker 1: on Apple TV.
Speaker 2: So a ton to do.
Speaker 1: The Pennant races are starting to heat up in the
Speaker 1: world of Major League Baseball as the All Star weekend
Speaker 1: is behind us, so a lot to do. On this
Speaker 1: Wednesday edition of the program, good guest list for you guys,
Speaker 1: Matt Brown will stop by right off the top.
Speaker 2: Now Matt wrt's one of my.
Speaker 1: Favorite college football newsletters and entitled Extra Points. It's a
Speaker 1: one stop for me. Use it a lot to prep
Speaker 1: for the show. Smart dude, good friend of the show.
Speaker 1: Matt will stop by right off the top. Chris Comeradnie
Speaker 1: typically a Friday staple, but it's kind of a Friday
Speaker 1: for us, so Ck will be in studio today during
Speaker 1: the three o'clock hour and then the voice himself, the
Speaker 1: Voice of the Utes, Bill Riley joins us and my
Speaker 1: buddy Reese Peck, who's an adjunct professor back east. He's
Speaker 1: a local guy, very intellectual, fascinating guy. He's been on
Speaker 1: the show a bunch of different times, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of a different summer type approach when it comes to
Speaker 1: some of these conversations we'll have.
Speaker 2: So Reese will stop buy live in studio as well.
Speaker 1: So Matt Brown, Chris Comaradnie, Bill Riley, respect me, Spence check.
Speaker 1: Its all of you, the great listeners, and that guy
Speaker 1: James Peterson sitting in the chair usually occupied by porter
Speaker 1: pulling double duty today Humpy.
Speaker 3: D Yeah a little bit.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean you could probably say triple duty with
Speaker 4: the PD title you just threw out there. But the
Speaker 4: porter says.
Speaker 2: He'll be here.
Speaker 4: He's none exact time when he'll be able to get in,
Speaker 4: but I'm happy to fill in form in the meantime.
Speaker 4: No NBA storylines. What does a jazz player winning MVP
Speaker 4: not in some NBA form of MVP not count as
Speaker 4: NBA storylines?
Speaker 1: Well, I did, I did, I did mention that you know,
Speaker 1: as I say all the time, if you're.
Speaker 4: For MVP in franchise history, right, So well them two
Speaker 4: and now him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the first Jazz player to win Summer League.
Speaker 1: But yes, Carl won a couple of regular season MVPs.
Speaker 1: But I always say, if you're a fan of an
Speaker 1: NBA team and your best players are playing on your
Speaker 1: summer league team, it's not a great sid. That's a
Speaker 1: good point, all right, So a lot to do on
Speaker 1: the show. Good to guys, Good to have you guys
Speaker 1: with us. We'll bring in Matt Brown right off the top.
Speaker 1: Before we get to Matt. ESPN seven hundred welcomes Eric
Speaker 1: Church to the Delta Center on October twenty third, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. Tickets are on sale now.
Speaker 2: You can text Church date seven seven three five three
Speaker 2: zero seven hundred for a chance to win tickets to go.
Speaker 1: See Eric Church. Courtesy of ESPN seven hundred. All right,
Speaker 1: So Big twelve Media Days a few weeks ago. See
Speaker 1: Media Days is about a week and a half ago now,
Speaker 1: and it's big. It's Big ten Day two in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: and it's ACC Day two and Charlotte and ultimately it's
Speaker 1: just an excuse to kind of cover some of these
Speaker 1: storylines going on in the world of college football. As
Speaker 1: we are less than forty days away for the University
Speaker 1: of Utah to kickoff, and of course BYU Utah State
Speaker 1: all of our local teams, so getting ready to open
Speaker 1: up camp and we'll get some answers to some of
Speaker 1: the questions that we have, namely for Brigham Young, who's
Speaker 1: going to start at quarterback? As we now know that
Speaker 1: Jakeretts laugh is headed to Tulane. Kind of an interesting
Speaker 1: dynamic there when it comes to the way that went down.
Speaker 1: As a result of the timing of the whole thing,
Speaker 1: the transfer portal was not open and so the Tulane
Speaker 1: coaches were not able to contact Jake Rrett's laughs directly.
Speaker 2: They had to contact his reps.
Speaker 1: As the story goes, Jake was recruited by the head
Speaker 1: coach of Taulaine out of high school. So ultimately they
Speaker 1: kind of have a situation where they know each other,
Speaker 1: they're familiar with each other. So who will start at
Speaker 1: quarterback for BYU. They'll open up the competition once fall
Speaker 1: gets going. A lot of fan support for the bear
Speaker 1: Bachmeyer kid. Of course, you know, left to kind of
Speaker 1: wait and see who a rod decides to tab to
Speaker 1: run his system. I think it's kind of nice that
Speaker 1: for the first time in a few years, the University
Speaker 1: of Utah does not have any ambiguity a by the
Speaker 1: quarterback position.
Speaker 2: And yes, Cameron certainly was named the starter.
Speaker 1: We knew that when healthy, he was going to be
Speaker 1: the guy, but just too many unknowns regarding that situation.
Speaker 2: So to have it settled that.
Speaker 1: Devin Dampier is the guy is a really really solid
Speaker 1: thing for Utah heading into camp. As I say every
Speaker 1: year about this time, if you're a fan of a
Speaker 1: college football team, the less questions that you have in
Speaker 1: turn camp, that's always the way to roll. So it's
Speaker 1: good for Utah to have that solidified. We'll see how
Speaker 1: BYU figures that out. As we're high speed, had to
Speaker 1: actually talking about games in college football as opposed to
Speaker 1: the future of conference realignment, the future of TV deals,
Speaker 1: the expanded CFP, scheduling, uniformity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So UCLA opening game that is a late kick.
Speaker 1: Remember BYU will get things going with Portland State, and
Speaker 1: if you're BYU, I think that's ultimately a nice soft
Speaker 1: landing spot when.
Speaker 2: You're trying to break in a quarterback.
Speaker 1: Because the interesting thing about the conversation regarding Jake Jake
Speaker 1: Htz laugh is you hear a lot of people say, well,
Speaker 1: and I've said this because it's true. Last year BYU's success,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, wasn't predicated on the play of their quarterback.
Speaker 2: You know, Jake was eleventh in the Big Big twelve
Speaker 2: and QBR.
Speaker 1: And he had some excellent moments in a vacuum, made
Speaker 1: some big time plays down the stretch from some clutch
Speaker 1: plays down the stretch. Certainly did that here in Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City as they beat Utah last year twenty two
Speaker 1: to twenty one with that crazy ending, And Jake deserves
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for a lot of things. But
Speaker 1: if you're a BYU fan, I don't think this is
Speaker 1: a death pla.
Speaker 2: I really don't.
Speaker 1: But the other side of that coin is when you
Speaker 1: haven't done something before and you're asked to do it
Speaker 1: for the first time, I don't care how talented you are,
Speaker 1: it's going to take a minute for you to kind
Speaker 1: of get used to how that works. And whoever the
Speaker 1: quarterback is will be taking their first snaps as the
Speaker 1: quarterback for BYU. McKay holsted played as a freshman at
Speaker 1: Utah State, and certainly some of the other qbs in
Speaker 1: the room have a little bit of experience, but none
Speaker 1: of them have the experience Jake did.
Speaker 2: So I do think in a way.
Speaker 1: This will be a setback, but I just don't think
Speaker 1: it's a death sentence. And most of the preseason Big
Speaker 1: twelve polls indicate as much. The Vegas over under for
Speaker 1: wins for Brigham Young has not moved all that much.
Speaker 1: But obviously when you have a question mark under center,
Speaker 1: that's going to be the first topic and that's the
Speaker 1: biggest question to me for any of our teams locally
Speaker 1: here in state as we approach camp. So I referenced
Speaker 1: this earlier. The Athletic wrote a really interesting piece. Matt
Speaker 1: Baker wrote it, so college football program valuations, ranking every
Speaker 1: power for team by how.
Speaker 2: Much they'd sell for.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: I find stuff like this really interesting, and we've talked
Speaker 1: about it on the show. I'm actually a little bit
Speaker 1: surprised that it hasn't come to fruition tangibly, and it's
Speaker 1: still more rumors and conjecture that private equity has not
Speaker 1: made its way into the world of college football, at
Speaker 1: least in a way that I thought it would once
Speaker 1: this idea was kind of floated out. I believe it
Speaker 1: was the owner of the Bucks who had a sports
Speaker 1: conference just came out and said that he and his
Speaker 1: partners are looking to make an offer to buy like
Speaker 1: forty eight percent of Ohio state. And what's that number?
Speaker 1: What does it look like? And how does that work
Speaker 1: with public schools? Right when the local government is involved,
Speaker 1: And it's not as seamless as being able to just
Speaker 1: go buy a property. So when you look at the
Speaker 1: rankings and tears that Matt Baker is essentially unpacked here
Speaker 1: and he went through a pretty arduous process. I mean,
Speaker 1: try to analyze markets, try to analyze brand awareness, current
Speaker 1: and past success. The most valuable team in college football,
Speaker 1: according to Matt's model, is the University of Texas, and
Speaker 1: the valuation would be two point three to eight billion. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think that's low. Their three year average football revenue
Speaker 1: is one hundred and eighty three million. And just going
Speaker 1: down the list, as we talk about, if you're one
Speaker 1: of those people that pushes back on the narrative of
Speaker 1: the SEC and the Big Ten essentially owning the landscape
Speaker 1: of the sport, this is not the list that you're
Speaker 1: looking for, Texas would be one out of the SEC,
Speaker 1: and then you have Georgia at two. Ohio State is
Speaker 1: valued at three, Notre Dame Independent at four, and then
Speaker 1: Big Ten's Michigan Michigan out of the Big ten would
Speaker 1: be five, and then it goes Bama SEC, Oklahoma SEC
Speaker 1: USC Big ten, Tennessee SEC, LSU SEC, Penn State Big ten,
Speaker 1: Florida SEC, Auburn SEC, Oregon Big ten, Texas A and m SEC,
Speaker 1: Washington Big ten, Nebraska Big ten. The first team on
Speaker 1: the list of these valuations is Florida State at eighty
Speaker 1: eight hundred and sixty seven million.
Speaker 2: They're out of the ACC.
Speaker 1: Then it's Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State all out of the
Speaker 1: Big ten. Back to the ACC where it's Clemson, and
Speaker 1: then it's Arkansas, Miami ACC. We have not named a
Speaker 1: Big twelve team yet Old Miss SEC, North Carolina ACC,
Speaker 1: South Carolina SEC, Minnesota Big ten, and the most valuable
Speaker 1: team in the Big twelve, according to Matt Baker's model,
Speaker 1: is none other than the University of Utah, valued at
Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty nine million, and Utah is the
Speaker 1: first Big twelve team on the list. And then TCU
Speaker 1: is the second Big twelve team on the list, but
Speaker 1: of the top twenty five most valuable properties in college football.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, the top thirty.
Speaker 1: The University of Utah is the first Big twelve team
Speaker 1: in at number twenty nine. The rest of the top
Speaker 1: twenty eight, it's laced in SEC and Big ten with
Speaker 1: a few ACC schools. TCU comes in right after Utah
Speaker 1: number thirty. And as we make our way down the list,
Speaker 1: I am still not seeing Brigham Young, which is a
Speaker 1: little bit surprising. So Colorado is in the mix. So BYU,
Speaker 1: their valuation the ninth most valuable team in the Big twelve.
Speaker 1: The average football revenue forty three point seven million dollars
Speaker 1: and their projected price would be three hundred and six
Speaker 1: million dollars.
Speaker 2: So the ninth most valuable team in the Big twelve BYU.
Speaker 1: That feels low. Interesting to consider kind of how this
Speaker 1: model unfolded. But again, of the top twenty most valuable teams,
Speaker 1: you have two ACC teams and then everyone else is
Speaker 1: SEC in Big ten. Because that's just kind of how
Speaker 1: the sport as unfolded.
Speaker 2: All right, Chris Camraaddie.
Speaker 1: From the Athletic will join us live in studio Today
Speaker 1: during the three o'clock hour, we have the voice of
Speaker 1: the utes. O'Reilly, My buddy respect will roll by in
Speaker 1: studios well.
Speaker 2: Batty leadoff Wednesday Afternoon Style.
Speaker 1: Our buddy Matt Brown writes the college football newsletter Extra Points,
Speaker 1: which I use all the time to prep for the
Speaker 1: show and understand the landscape of the sport. Matt, Happy Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, Buddy. How are we doing?
Speaker 5: Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the time.
Speaker 1: So as far as all of these moving targets that
Speaker 1: are going on right now, you know, we had Big
Speaker 1: twelve media Days, we were down in Dallas, SEC Media
Speaker 1: Days Atlanta, and now we've got ACC and big Big
Speaker 1: ten going on right now, Big ten in Vegas, ACC
Speaker 1: and Charlotte. I'm gonna ask you, what is the most
Speaker 1: interesting story permeating throughout the ecosystem of college football right
Speaker 1: now that you're interested in personally?
Speaker 5: What I'm interested in personally are generally not the same
Speaker 5: things that everybody else is. And also I recognize that
Speaker 5: I've been I've been out of the country until just
Speaker 5: a couple of days ago, and I've missed part of
Speaker 5: talking se but I generally don't find conference media day
Speaker 5: conversations to be that illuminating, right Like for me, I
Speaker 5: think some of the really interesting stuff that's happening right
Speaker 5: now is what's happening in DC. It's what's happening within
Speaker 5: the NCAA and the College Sports Commission and determining what
Speaker 5: kind of NIL activity is going to be permissible. It
Speaker 5: looks like that window as much larger than we thought
Speaker 5: it was going to be a couple of days ago.
Speaker 5: And what's happening with some of these smaller schools. I mean,
Speaker 5: like before you called, I was, I was finishing editing
Speaker 5: a story on golf, right, So I think my professional
Speaker 5: instinct is to zig a little bit where where people
Speaker 5: are zagging. I'll have some time to go check the
Speaker 5: pregem magazines and figure out who's going to be on
Speaker 5: what roster in the Big Twelve in a couple of days.
Speaker 1: Sure, And you know, ultimately we're not going to talk
Speaker 1: about the too deep for you know, Utah or any
Speaker 1: other Big twelve team on the show today. I wonder
Speaker 1: as it pertains to the world of NIL and enforcement.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the interesting soundbites we had from
Speaker 1: Big Twelve Media Day from multiple coaches, including coach with
Speaker 1: Kyle Whittingham and Kalani is that there just seems to
Speaker 1: be zero faith in the ecosystem of college football in
Speaker 1: this potential enforcement and what it looks like. And if
Speaker 1: we're honest, Matt, there's never been an even playing field
Speaker 1: and there never will be. You always find ways to
Speaker 1: circumvent certain situations if you don't really care about approaching
Speaker 1: things with some sort of moral code. But as far
Speaker 1: as the progress or lack thereof with the enforcement of nil,
Speaker 1: what sort of light can you shed on that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't blame any of those coaches for saying that,
Speaker 5: and I'm not accusing anybody into Big twelve of mal
Speaker 5: seasons or anything. But you know I can tell you
Speaker 5: as a reporter based on who I talk to, is
Speaker 5: generally if I talk to an ad or conference staffer,
Speaker 5: they are there's some cautious optimism, right, And they're the
Speaker 5: ones that talk to the lawyers all the time. They
Speaker 5: see things from a different perspective and they think like,
Speaker 5: all right, like maybe the sports maybe it doesn't, but
Speaker 5: I'm I'm willing to give it a shot. I think
Speaker 5: there's a possibility. So when you talk to people that
Speaker 5: work in player personnel, gms, recruiting coordinators, you know, opts people,
Speaker 5: or head coaches. I haven't yet to talk to anybody
Speaker 5: in FBS to big school or small school that has
Speaker 5: faith in the system. And part of that is I
Speaker 5: think if you're a GM and you're talking to other
Speaker 5: gms and other recruiting staffers and assistants on other programs,
Speaker 5: you're being paid a lot of money to win, and
Speaker 5: you win by having the best players, and you don't
Speaker 5: get contract extensions or get rewarded for outstanding fidelity to
Speaker 5: NCAA bylaws or to Collegiate Sports Commission, you know, policies.
Speaker 5: It's in your professional best interests, you know, not to
Speaker 5: do anything illegal, but to find ways to get people
Speaker 5: money so you can get them on campus. And then
Speaker 5: you've for forgiveness rather than for permission later. Because it's
Speaker 5: not like anybody gets really significantly penalized for breaking any
Speaker 5: of those rules. The only thing that I think will
Speaker 5: change any those coaches' minds is when somebody gets penalized
Speaker 5: in a major way. And will that happen at some
Speaker 5: point probably, and we'll see if it stands up in court.
Speaker 5: The big change that we've seen in just the last
Speaker 5: seventy two hours is when we talk We talked to
Speaker 5: folks a couple of weeks ago. The guidance was, we're
Speaker 5: not going to permit nil deals from collectives. Those aren't
Speaker 5: real businesses. They'll be presumed to not be for regular
Speaker 5: business purposes. And then the collective operators threatened to sue,
Speaker 5: they called tom Mars and others. And now the guidance says, well, okay,
Speaker 5: maybe those will be okay, but they're still going to
Speaker 5: be subject to fair market value analysis. And the kind
Speaker 5: of when I've been getting from text messages from coaches
Speaker 5: and GM types since then has been all right, So
Speaker 5: we're just going to get like ten percent more sophisticated
Speaker 5: at money laundering gonna were in twenty twenty two, and
Speaker 5: then nothing really changed. And if that's the case, then
Speaker 5: there is no cap then anything from the house situation
Speaker 5: doesn't really matter. Well, the only thing that changes is
Speaker 5: going to be either rigorous enforcement or some or judicial
Speaker 5: legal clarity. We'll see if we get any of those
Speaker 5: before October.
Speaker 2: Are the days of our collectives dead?
Speaker 1: Are collectives across the landscape at college football just dead?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 5: No? I think actually quite the contrary. They became substantially,
Speaker 5: you know, more less dead, you know, substantially more alive.
Speaker 5: In the last two days, there were a lot of
Speaker 5: collectives that are being folded into schools, or converted into
Speaker 5: more traditional marketing agencies, or broad in house, or dissolved
Speaker 5: because then the conventional wisdom was that your legal liability
Speaker 5: goes down if you bring some of this stuff in together.
Speaker 5: You don't need to run it through a third organization,
Speaker 5: because the school can directly compensate people. But if you're
Speaker 5: permitted to still have an outside entity and cut checks
Speaker 5: to people and have it not count against your cap
Speaker 5: so long as it passes the fair market value test
Speaker 5: and is providing some actual service to the public, then
Speaker 5: I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist
Speaker 5: to figure out a way to keep your collective operating.
Speaker 5: Maybe they don't get spun off again in the next
Speaker 5: three months if they were killed before, but some really
Speaker 5: rigorous enforcement, Yeah, I think you'll see more schools look
Speaker 5: at that guidance and think, Okay, I've just got to
Speaker 5: figure out a way to pull my funnel my donor
Speaker 5: money through some kind of like pizza place, and so
Speaker 5: that way still give money above the cap because the
Speaker 5: the eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen million dollars that schools are
Speaker 5: allocating for their football payroll from just their house money
Speaker 5: is not going to be enough to pay a championship
Speaker 5: caliber football team.
Speaker 1: Mark Carlin, athletic director for the You, joined us a
Speaker 1: big twelve media days and I presented him with the
Speaker 1: split that most people believe is like a general blueprint
Speaker 1: baseline promote that athletic department seventy five percent football, fifteen
Speaker 1: percent men's hoops, five percent women's hoops, then five percent
Speaker 1: left over. He essentially said, yeah, that's kind of how
Speaker 1: we're we're doing it. When it comes to Brian Santiago
Speaker 1: with BYU, he sidestepped the question in a way that
Speaker 1: wasn't that surprise to me. Uh, is that your understanding, Matt,
Speaker 1: of the way that it is most places, not all,
Speaker 1: but most places.
Speaker 5: I think I think at most places we're talking about
Speaker 5: being within five percent of that, right, Like I I,
Speaker 5: you would know this probably better and I would. I
Speaker 5: would not be surprised that Utah would decided to allocate
Speaker 5: some money to women's gymnastics. And there are many SEC
Speaker 5: programs that that have to allocate some money to baseball
Speaker 5: or some money to softball. But that's pretty common, whether
Speaker 5: it's it's it's seventy seventy five eighty for football and
Speaker 5: kind of splitting things up among everybody else. That is
Speaker 5: that is that is the most common thing I know BYU.
Speaker 5: If I understood the Deseret News story from a couple
Speaker 5: of days ago, it's a little bit different in that
Speaker 5: they're they're still using Alston money, They're still tying academic
Speaker 5: and sentence to some of this. They're I think that
Speaker 5: they might be the only powerful program I'm aware of
Speaker 5: that's said in public we're not going to fund the
Speaker 5: full twenty million, which I okay, whatever you want to
Speaker 5: tell yourselves. But I'm unaware of anybody in the Power
Speaker 5: forward that's doing a radically different sport allocations for their money.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you brought up the d News piece
Speaker 1: because I wanted to dig into that with you. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a complicated, slippery slope in a way, because I
Speaker 1: just don't feel like they're honest and transparent about any
Speaker 1: of their financial dealings when it comes to the athletic department,
Speaker 1: and it's laced in this hole like, no, we don't
Speaker 1: pay top dollar.
Speaker 2: They want the BYU experience.
Speaker 1: They want to evolve and grow as young people, and
Speaker 1: they want to become tried and true BYU. And it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: we have the reports that you're paying de bands to
Speaker 1: seven mil for five months in basketball.
Speaker 2: Scott Drew, the head coach of Baylor.
Speaker 1: He said that Rob Wright, the point guard, they were
Speaker 1: able to grab three point five mil. If you do
Speaker 1: some loose math, they're paying thirteen to fifteen million dollars
Speaker 1: for their basketball program.
Speaker 2: They just signed Rider Lions.
Speaker 1: The report is Rider was looking for seven figure and
Speaker 1: seven figures before he leaves on his mission, which you know,
Speaker 1: so they're paying top dollar. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: whole like, yeah, we're gonna do eighteen mil does outside
Speaker 1: of maybe make some people down there feel better about going.
Speaker 2: Out and buying talent. And I'm not hating on the
Speaker 2: whole process. I'm just like, don't tell me, I'm not
Speaker 2: seeing what I'm seeing. Like, be honest about how you're
Speaker 2: dealing with it.
Speaker 1: What do you make of this entire you know, your
Speaker 1: takeaways with the Deseret News story in the way by
Speaker 1: use handling this new reality of college sports and again
Speaker 1: not breaking any rules, but they are spending top dollar
Speaker 1: for talent.
Speaker 5: Yeah. So I'm conflicted about this, and I've been asking
Speaker 5: myself like, is my emotional, visceral reaction, am I being fair?
Speaker 5: Is this being colored by my own biases? And maybe
Speaker 5: it is right? So I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 5: to come out too hard here. I think we both
Speaker 5: people like you and I and general fans, we have
Speaker 5: to be careful when we say like, oh, well, well,
Speaker 5: you know Baylor's paying X, or by us paying X.
Speaker 5: Because one of the tricky things about about this world,
Speaker 5: right is that athletes are getting money from multiple sources.
Speaker 5: Do I? I mean, as far as I understand it,
Speaker 5: Like DYU is not responsible for all of the money
Speaker 5: that's going to aj AJ is going to get some
Speaker 5: of that, right, Someone that's coming from Red Bull, some
Speaker 5: of it's coming from shoe companies, someone's coming from outside things.
Speaker 5: And if money is coming from the you know, some
Speaker 5: of that's coming from the Cougar collective. You know a
Speaker 5: lot of these a lot of those basketball deals were
Speaker 5: front loaded the same way that everybody else is doing things.
Speaker 5: Then DYU could say with their whole chest and be
Speaker 5: totally honest. We're not paying top dollar. Well, you know,
Speaker 5: we the university Athletic Department are paying you know, eighty
Speaker 5: five percent of market rate. And if other people want
Speaker 5: to pay him a lot of money, so his total
Speaker 5: compa is very high. Well, we don't have anything to
Speaker 5: do with what red Bull does. And and you know,
Speaker 5: it's just a total number that ends up getting reported.
Speaker 5: And and maybe there's a maybe there's a meaningful distinction there,
Speaker 5: maybe there isn't that that's probably more nuanced for for
Speaker 5: sports radio. I do think I take a little a
Speaker 5: little bit of exception to the idea that by somehow
Speaker 5: paying eighteen seven or nineteen million instead of twenty or
Speaker 5: instep of twenty point five, that the process then is
Speaker 5: no longer transactional. And BYU is absolutely not alone in this,
Speaker 5: because I had this conversation all the time in higher
Speaker 5: education about coaches and administrators that are worried about college
Speaker 5: sports becoming overly transactional. And we can do and we
Speaker 5: can sit there and we can we can destroy it
Speaker 5: Utah or Utah State or anybody else that there's punrets
Speaker 5: of athletes in the athletic department that are going to
Speaker 5: a school because they want a scholarship and they want
Speaker 5: to compete at a high level, and they like that school,
Speaker 5: and they're not going for just a pure paycheck. But
Speaker 5: once you start paying people at any job, it becomes transactional.
Speaker 5: My job at Extra Points is transactional. Am I doing
Speaker 5: it for the love of the game. Yes, But I
Speaker 5: gots a gout to pay for a new air conditioning unit.
Speaker 5: I gotta go buy snacks or my kids. I gotta
Speaker 5: go buy pants, I gotta go buy gas. I absolutely
Speaker 5: care about the money, and I don't I don't think
Speaker 5: that's the problem. And I think what I've mentioned here before,
Speaker 5: like my understanding is just about everybody within the church enterprises,
Speaker 5: whether you're a basketball player or a coach, or an
Speaker 5: English professor or a software developer or reporter for the
Speaker 5: Deseret News or anywhere else, is you're not getting the
Speaker 5: top of the line salary because they don't want somebody
Speaker 5: to make the decision and and sign up for everything
Speaker 5: that comes along with with with that because they felt
Speaker 5: constrained by cash. But on some level, if you're paying
Speaker 5: close enough or enough money, like I don't think you
Speaker 5: can pretend that that's that's not part of it, and
Speaker 5: that's not an LDS Church specific problem or a BYU
Speaker 5: specific problem. There might be a couple of wrinkles that
Speaker 5: plays out specifically there that's a college sports problem. And
Speaker 5: I think a lot of that is because this industry
Speaker 5: at large is really reticent to be honest about what
Speaker 5: this is.
Speaker 2: Well said, right, yeah, yeah, well said and and very fair.
Speaker 1: And you know, again, it's not a commentary on the
Speaker 1: LDS Church, you know, it's it's clear that the money
Speaker 1: is not coming from the church. I think you and
Speaker 1: I have talked about this before. I went to lunch
Speaker 1: with a very powerful local booster who told me at
Speaker 1: the time is understanding is by U as nine seven
Speaker 1: figure donors, while Utah currently has too.
Speaker 2: Now that was about a year ago.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the up to date number is,
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of powerful rich.
Speaker 5: Utel's got a little bit more than their fundraising department
Speaker 5: since then. But but your point's certainly well taken.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me follow up because I'm not aware of
Speaker 1: that dynamic. What's your understanding of where Utah finds itself
Speaker 1: in this ecosystem?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, my understanding I've talked to some people, you
Speaker 5: know that work in the program and around the school.
Speaker 5: You know this summer about Hey, you know, over the
Speaker 5: last year, we've looked at ourselves and like, Okay, we
Speaker 5: need to get a lot better at major gifts. We
Speaker 5: need to get a lot better at cultivating athletic donors,
Speaker 5: not just for athlete payroll, but across our entire department
Speaker 5: in big and meaningful ways. You know, we have to
Speaker 5: do more than just the occasional golf scramble, and we
Speaker 5: have to do more than just you know, letting ourselves
Speaker 5: be known as a place where some players might get
Speaker 5: truck And so they recruited staff to do that, and
Speaker 5: they spent a lot of time and energy on it,
Speaker 5: and it's gotten better. I couldn't tell. I don't think
Speaker 5: I would feel comfortable saying on the air like what
Speaker 5: I think the payroll number is because some of the
Speaker 5: money that's being donated may very well go to facilities
Speaker 5: or capital projects or things that have nothing to do
Speaker 5: with nil. But I would feel pretty confidence saying like,
Speaker 5: I don't think this athletic department is poor, and I
Speaker 5: think whatever lessons they learned from twenty twenty two and
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three have have been taken to heart, and
Speaker 5: they're going to be prepared to get the money that
Speaker 5: they need to be successful across multiple sports, which you
Speaker 5: have to be in the Big Twelve because like, nobody
Speaker 5: is a complete financial bohemos. There's no Ohio State in
Speaker 5: that league, but there's also twelve schools in there that think, hey,
Speaker 5: if we just if we really go after it, we
Speaker 5: could be the top dog in here, which means that
Speaker 5: everybody is trying to do the same things that Utah
Speaker 5: and to some extent be why you were doing. It's
Speaker 5: gonna be very, very competitive.
Speaker 1: When it comes to collateral damage, Matt. The University of
Speaker 1: Utah has already cut their beach volleyball program, and you know,
Speaker 1: I haven't heard a ton of pieces of collateral damage
Speaker 1: with other smaller sports being cut across the landscape of
Speaker 1: collegiate athletics like I thought I would. Do you anticipate
Speaker 1: more of things such as that, you know, having to
Speaker 1: just simply cut programs that are not close to generating
Speaker 1: any revenue and certainly not on the same level of basketball, football, Saga.
Speaker 2: Do you think we're going to see a lot of that?
Speaker 5: We are, but it's looking different, and I'm not surprised
Speaker 5: that we haven't seen a ton of sports being dropped
Speaker 5: at the powerflow level. A big part of that is
Speaker 5: because when you drop those kinds of sports, you tend
Speaker 5: to be a magnet for legal action. And when you
Speaker 5: look at what happened with Michigan State and with Eye
Speaker 5: and with Clemson, and when they tried to decrease the
Speaker 5: number of sports that they had, they all got in
Speaker 5: trouble with Title nine and they ended up having to
Speaker 5: readjust some of some of their sports sponsorship. It's not
Speaker 5: uncommon right now to see sports being cut at the
Speaker 5: low major level. I would say that the one that
Speaker 5: is probably the most in danger almost everywhere is men
Speaker 5: and women's tennis especially. You know, not to get too political,
Speaker 5: but like this is the reality. Like men's collegiate men's
Speaker 5: and women's tennis tends to recruit overwhelmingly from from international
Speaker 5: athlete pools. And if the federal government is going to
Speaker 5: make it harder to get student visas, or if athletes
Speaker 5: think that there's there's a greater risk of not being
Speaker 5: able to stay around the whole four years and it's
Speaker 5: harder to fundraise from those players after they graduate, that's
Speaker 5: an easy sport to drop. And when you get rid
Speaker 5: of one of those sports, it's not like you're saving
Speaker 5: a ton of money off the coach and the travel
Speaker 5: for the tennis players. But if you decrease the total
Speaker 5: number of athletes you have, you can decrease your spending
Speaker 5: on your back end administrative services. Where you're going to
Speaker 5: see cuts way more likely is is way more often.
Speaker 5: Is what happened with Oklahoma a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 5: where I think they cut like five percent of their
Speaker 5: total athletic department staff. You're going to see the layoffs
Speaker 5: all over the power for and it's not going to
Speaker 5: be we're getting rid of the of the baseball team
Speaker 5: so much as we're getting rid of, you know, four
Speaker 5: people that used to work in developmental nutrition or analytics.
Speaker 5: We're going to get rid of academic support specialists. We're
Speaker 5: going to get rid of communications staffers. We're going to
Speaker 5: let positions remain vacant when when when people retire, we're
Speaker 5: not going to We're going to hire a twenty two
Speaker 5: year old instead of somebody that has some more experience,
Speaker 5: and that's really sad for their families, and that could
Speaker 5: be bad for the industry at large. But I don't
Speaker 5: think you're going to see a wholesale retreat from from sports.
Speaker 2: Entirely.
Speaker 5: It's going to be how can we cut scholarship spending?
Speaker 5: How can we cut the infrastructure spending and maybe make
Speaker 5: those cuts fee a little bit less public.
Speaker 1: So I wonder since you and I last spoke, Jake
Speaker 1: retz Laugh has announced his intent he's going to go
Speaker 1: to Tulane. Kind of some interesting timing because the transfer
Speaker 1: portal was not open, so they were unable to contact
Speaker 1: Jake directly.
Speaker 2: They had to go through his reps.
Speaker 1: I guess the head coach at Tulane recruited Jake out
Speaker 1: of high school. Okay, okay, So what do you make
Speaker 1: of Jake's decision? And it kind of inform us about
Speaker 1: how this process works when a player cannot enter the
Speaker 1: transfer portal and trying to find a new place to play.
Speaker 5: I would say part of it is a little funny,
Speaker 5: And I'm saying, this is a guy that used to
Speaker 5: live like three blocks in Tulane's campus to go from
Speaker 5: a school with maybe four Jewish students and a ton
Speaker 5: of Mormons to then go to maybe the most Jewish
Speaker 5: program in FBS and tooled up might have four Mormons
Speaker 5: is a pretty traumatic shift just from like life, I
Speaker 5: think from a football perspective, the timing does make this
Speaker 5: really really interesting because as I understood it, like if
Speaker 5: you're going outside of the portal and just enrolling, you
Speaker 5: start as a walk on, and you don't have you
Speaker 5: like you weren't there for spring ball, and you're not
Speaker 5: immediately in the team's facilities or around the team instantly.
Speaker 5: I mean like fall camp's going to open for almost
Speaker 5: everybody in a couple of days, So it's it's a
Speaker 5: little bit academic. But Tulane has good quarterbacks on the roster,
Speaker 5: like they're a team that's built to be competitive in
Speaker 5: the American this year. I think it's difficult even if
Speaker 5: you're really good to come in and completely, you know,
Speaker 5: win a job when you when you when you have
Speaker 5: that that little prep time. I'm sure that you know,
Speaker 5: Jake's a smart guy, and I'm sure he's trying to
Speaker 5: pick up things, uh as best as he can schematically,
Speaker 5: and I'm sure Tulane wasn't wasn't bringing him into to
Speaker 5: be a depth piece. But whether it's him or nearly
Speaker 5: anybody that ends up changing this close to the season,
Speaker 5: I think it's really difficult to come in and and
Speaker 5: and just dominate from day one unless you're Kaylen Williams
Speaker 5: and and you know, no disrespect like that's that's not
Speaker 5: what Jake is. So whether he's whether he's the opening
Speaker 5: day starter, maybe maybe not. But if he is, like
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be surprised if if two angle is pretty
Speaker 5: run heavy or you're you're not seeing a ton of
Speaker 5: explosion h in the beginning of the season, and it
Speaker 5: takes a little time to win over a locker room with
Speaker 5: if you hadn't built those relationships and had those reps,
Speaker 5: it's not an easy situation for anybody.
Speaker 2: We had Chase Hansen in studio this week.
Speaker 1: Chase played at the University of Utah, played in the NFL,
Speaker 1: and he was a quarterback at Loan Peak, and he
Speaker 1: was an awesome high school player in the backyard of
Speaker 1: Lavelle Edward Stadium, and his father played at BYU.
Speaker 2: It was this weird era.
Speaker 1: Matt where for about I don't know, eight years, and
Speaker 1: it coincided with Broncos time at BYU. Bronco great football coach.
Speaker 1: Year one Utah State. We'll see what he does. But
Speaker 1: there were a lot of BYU alums that just didn't
Speaker 1: seem to like him much, and a lot of these
Speaker 1: alums had kids. It ended up playing elsewhere, namely the
Speaker 1: University of Utah, And of course it was a different
Speaker 1: time because Utah had the PAC twelve BYU was independent,
Speaker 1: and Kyle really had the program ticking. But I asked
Speaker 1: Chase about the Jake situation and then how honor Code
Speaker 1: violations and stories that come out as a result, how
Speaker 1: how does it affect you when it comes to trying
Speaker 1: to choose where you want to play play football or
Speaker 1: play sports. He gave a really nuanced, complex, interesting answer.
Speaker 1: As a member of the LDS Church who does not
Speaker 1: agree with the application and sometimes two tiered application of
Speaker 1: the Honor Code when it comes to athletes in students,
Speaker 1: how do you think these stories as someone who doesn't
Speaker 1: live here, but also as an understanding of the way
Speaker 1: this stuff works. How do you think the a story
Speaker 1: like Jake Rhetz laugh and the Honor Code violation? How
Speaker 1: do you think it lands with people across the landscape
Speaker 1: of simply being interested in sport?
Speaker 5: I mean, when when when you hear this story and
Speaker 5: you're not tied to Utah and you're not tied to
Speaker 5: anywhere in the LDS extended universe and you just hear
Speaker 5: about this and I mean, like my phone has been
Speaker 5: blown up right up in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 5: Was like wait, wait, like somebody somebody got suspended from
Speaker 5: having sex, Like that's a biological thing that that almost
Speaker 5: almost everybody does. Like that's that's that's crazy. Well, I
Speaker 5: mean the situation is obviously in this particular case, may
Speaker 5: be a lot more complicated and nuanced than that, but
Speaker 5: it's it's a surprise. I like, no, this is this
Speaker 5: this this is a school that has has very uh
Speaker 5: just you strict laid out values that are expected to
Speaker 5: be followed for everybody, whether you're whether you're ld S
Speaker 5: or not. And and then the response I think varies
Speaker 5: a little bit depending on somebody's faith background and and
Speaker 5: where they are in the country, and and and a
Speaker 5: couple of other demographics. Right like, if you are somebody
Speaker 5: that came from a really strict Catholic home and spent
Speaker 5: your high school playing in in in parochial schools, and
Speaker 5: and were involved with other similar honor code systems, the
Speaker 5: idea that there might be uh, you know, university conduct
Speaker 5: policy that extends beyond the n C double A Handbook.
Speaker 5: I don't think that would be shocking if you're if
Speaker 5: you're from a really secular environment, uh, then that that
Speaker 5: may be a difficult culture shift. Like what what I
Speaker 5: have heard from from people who have played there and
Speaker 5: gone to school there, and it's and and and you
Speaker 5: you you can you can find opinions about the honor
Speaker 5: code all over the BAP, even from very active engaged
Speaker 5: Latter Day Saints. I think part of the challenge will
Speaker 5: always be when you are recruiting somebody who is an
Speaker 5: l DS and may feel like they don't have a
Speaker 5: real cultural advocate for them during that process, whether that's hey,
Speaker 5: I'm a I'm a I'm a black Stunthern Baptist, and
Speaker 5: like the people that I'm dealing with throughout all this
Speaker 5: honor code situation don't look like me, and they're they're
Speaker 5: they're mentioning words or stuff I don't totally understand, or
Speaker 5: or from people that just don't come from this tradition.
Speaker 5: I know some folks come into by U and have
Speaker 5: a great experience even with all of that, some some
Speaker 5: people don't. It's not going to change. And and I
Speaker 5: I think I was more interested in pushing that harder
Speaker 5: earlier in my in my reporting career. Now it's like,
Speaker 5: this is just one of the ways this place is different.
Speaker 5: Sometimes some of the ways that it's it's different are
Speaker 5: good and beautiful and worth celebrating, and sometimes they're not.
Speaker 5: And that's just kind of know. How you decide what
Speaker 5: is what it depends on who you are.
Speaker 2: I guess well said, all right, final thing, and I'll
Speaker 2: set you loose.
Speaker 1: Two Democrats Summerly and my guy Chris Murphy from my
Speaker 1: home state Connecticut, reintroducing a bill to affirm and expand
Speaker 1: college athletes rights to organize, form unions and collectively bargain
Speaker 1: with their universities and or conferences, according to the legislation.
Speaker 2: I'm reading this from Ross Ross Dellinger. You know, Matt.
Speaker 1: For me, I've always felt like this is the route
Speaker 1: that is inevitable. I feel like every time I kick
Speaker 1: the tires with you, it kind of depends on the
Speaker 1: way the winds are blown.
Speaker 2: How are these winds blown?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: Do you think we are high speed ahead to at
Speaker 1: some point, at least in football, these football players with
Speaker 1: the ability to unionize and collectively bargain.
Speaker 5: No, I don't, And I know I know other reporters
Speaker 5: feel differently, and they may very well be right, But
Speaker 5: I would tell people here is like, based on the
Speaker 5: text of the bill that I that raw shared, and
Speaker 5: the chances that this gets through the Senate are less
Speaker 5: than zero percent. And the biggest reason actually has nothing
Speaker 5: to do with with sports at all. Right, Like what
Speaker 5: with Senator Murphy's trying to do is to expand the
Speaker 5: scope of the National Labor Relations Board to oversee both
Speaker 5: public and private institutions. A there is absolutely not a
Speaker 5: single Republican in the US Senate that wants to make
Speaker 5: it easier or to expand unionization options for graduate students
Speaker 5: and university employees that are not currently covered under the NLRB.
Speaker 5: And nobody's going to even read the bills to get
Speaker 5: to the football park where they say nope, next it's
Speaker 5: it's legitimately more likely that like Congress gets rid of
Speaker 5: the NLRB entirely, or or a case goes to the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court that gets rid of it. Then under the
Speaker 5: way the government stead of right now for that to
Speaker 5: get big get approved. While we're talking, like while Senator
Speaker 5: Murphy's doing this in the Senate, like the Score Act
Speaker 5: is advancing out of committee. It's like very likely to
Speaker 5: get a full floor vote in the House, which explicitly
Speaker 5: says athletes can't bargain because they're not employees. That will
Speaker 5: probably pass the House. I don't think it will pass
Speaker 5: the Senate, at least now, and at least not with
Speaker 5: sixty votes. But the the there's there's some that could
Speaker 5: get really close. There are there are Democratic senators who
Speaker 5: will who will support that. In a in a different
Speaker 5: with a different president, with different lawmakers, could athletes, Uh,
Speaker 5: collective bargaining become more likely. Absolutely, And I would just
Speaker 5: say to anybody who's like, if you are sick of
Speaker 5: this and you think that collective bargaining is the option,
Speaker 5: you need to look at who you're voting for. Because
Speaker 5: if if you're, if you're if you're sending people like
Speaker 5: Mike Lee to the Senate, they don't they do not
Speaker 5: see things the same way on this particular issue.
Speaker 1: We live in a Mike free Mike Lee free zone
Speaker 1: on this program MA. Just so you know, Uh, but look,
Speaker 1: before I said you loose, where can I where can
Speaker 1: people go get your great work?
Speaker 5: You can? You can find my stuff at extra points
Speaker 5: MB dot Com. I'm on Twitter at Matt Brown up
Speaker 5: has a story out today on the potential big changes
Speaker 5: in the college sports athletic apparel market that actually I
Speaker 5: think may be of interest to some Utah fans who
Speaker 5: may be wondering if you're going to be an under
Speaker 5: armored school forever. I've got something else coming out tomorrow
Speaker 5: on the subject that everybody wants to talk about, which is,
Speaker 5: of course Division two college golf. It's more interesting than
Speaker 5: you think here, I promise in some realignment stuff coming.
Speaker 5: So if you love inside baseball nerd stuff, I think
Speaker 5: you'll love extra points.
Speaker 2: Matt. Thank you, sir. Have a great weekend. Okay, you
Speaker 2: bet all right?
Speaker 5: Do well?
Speaker 2: My friend, all right, Matt Brown extra points.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that dude is a smart, smart guy
Speaker 1: covering college football. If you're looking for more information to
Speaker 1: try to help you understand how this thing is unfolding,
Speaker 1: including where we're at in Washington, with their involvement, with
Speaker 1: the potential of these players being able to unionize and
Speaker 1: collectively bargain. Matt's a great follow at Matt Brown EP
Speaker 1: is where you find them. All right, we have one
Speaker 1: hour down, We've got three hours to go. On this
Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon, we'll catch a break and coming up on
Speaker 1: the side Chris com Ronnie live in studio for an
Speaker 1: entire hour on a Wednesday drive. Good to have you
Speaker 1: along for the ride right here. Ron ESPN seven hundred
Speaker 1: join now live in studios. The show rolls along by
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Speaker 2: The problem with this bump is you can't step over it.
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Speaker 3: Did you pick Chris?
Speaker 2: Chris? This is James bead Approved.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, a little Phil Collins on a Wednesday afternoon,
Speaker 1: Chris Camaradi live in studio.
Speaker 2: Ck Happy Wednesday. How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good man? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good? Uh, you look a little weathered.
Speaker 4: It's been it's been a while since I've been in studios.
Speaker 4: We had We had kind of had a gap where
Speaker 4: everybody was going every which way the last month or so.
Speaker 1: Indeed, thank you for that. I look weathered, no, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there. I was
Speaker 1: out of town. We had big twelve media days, then
Speaker 1: I did the Portland thing, Love Portland, and then officiated
Speaker 1: the wedding.
Speaker 2: You have been well.
Speaker 1: Last time we had you on the show, you were
Speaker 1: starting the eight day journey of keeping a young person
Speaker 1: alive by yourself, which is why maybe the sleep pattern
Speaker 1: has been a little disrupted. So now that you've been
Speaker 1: a single father for eight days, what sort of lessons
Speaker 1: can you bestow upon the people.
Speaker 3: Well, if you.
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Speaker 4: is crushing you at the moment, remember that we have
Speaker 4: the luxury of for the most part, this thing called streaming.
Speaker 4: And if you need to breather, turn on some very
Speaker 4: annoying cartoon, which I tried not to do, but there
Speaker 4: were times where you just needed to do the the woosa,
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, and just relax, walk away and never
Speaker 4: have You can never have too many bars or snap.
Speaker 3: Fruit bars, Z bar kids z bars.
Speaker 4: You know, the the breakfast bars, It goes a very
Speaker 4: long way, so bars and television.
Speaker 2: Basically Amanda has arrived homes so you have been rescued.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1: Different I can remember the first time I had solo
Speaker 1: duty when Connor was about Leo's age.
Speaker 2: There's some anxiety, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like there's like, okay, we got to we gotta
Speaker 1: make sure this goes well. I always get a kick
Speaker 1: out of, you know, because you reference the screens yep,
Speaker 1: and look, it's just inevitable. Every parent uses it and
Speaker 1: the only people that complain about it are people without children.
Speaker 1: I always got a kick out of, like I was.
Speaker 1: I think I was the first person in my friend
Speaker 1: group to become a parent, And I always get a
Speaker 1: kick out of, like advice I would get for my
Speaker 1: single friends that have never had children. It's like, you
Speaker 1: don't know, so cut it out. So the people that
Speaker 1: clutch their pearls over screens simply do not have children.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: I mean, the most humbling life experience, without a doubt,
Speaker 4: is becoming apparent one hundred on a multitude of levels.
Speaker 4: And I had all of my preconceived notions squashed into
Speaker 4: the ground, like uh, the bottom of a you know,
Speaker 4: a shoe at a rusted root concert, like just going
Speaker 4: boom squishing a bug. I guess they would they wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Squish, and yeah, sorry, maybe I'll just go something more
Speaker 2: basic like pearl jam.
Speaker 4: So yes, there was once upon a time that was
Speaker 4: me and then you you get thrust into it and
Speaker 4: then you realize, oh, I just have to make sure
Speaker 4: that I can get through the day, and maybe not
Speaker 4: even the day, the next hour, maybe not even the
Speaker 4: next hour, the next ten minutes.
Speaker 2: It's moment by moment at times. Yeah, No, there's this
Speaker 2: great Louis Louis c K bid saw Louis c K
Speaker 2: and I get so you didn't end up going phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I know that we've got to be like, hey, the
Speaker 1: stuff he did isn't okay, all right, still very funny,
Speaker 1: but he has this great bid where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: before you become a parent, you're like, I will show
Speaker 1: my child the wonders of the world and we will
Speaker 1: always be doing. And then you become a parent and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my gosh, how do I keep it alive?
Speaker 1: Like that's that's the day to day goal, to make
Speaker 1: sure you're not.
Speaker 2: Screwed it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, breakfast parts and television.
Speaker 2: I'm happy for you and I'm proud of you.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: And the weather thing was a bit.
Speaker 1: I just know you're coming off the eight day stretch
Speaker 1: where you had to, you know, kind of hang out
Speaker 1: with Leo and make sure everything went well.
Speaker 2: So welcome home, Amanda. Glad you survived, all right, c K.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow is the opening of the summer transfer window in
Speaker 1: the world of Major league soccer.
Speaker 2: We'll get to some college football. Everybody, It's okay the
Speaker 2: Score Act. Please don't ask me because I have no idea.
Speaker 2: You don't want to talk about the Score Act.
Speaker 1: You want to talk about collective collective bargaining and unionizing
Speaker 1: and such. All right, that is stuck in Washington. It
Speaker 1: is probably not going to go through. Matt Brown joined us.
Speaker 1: Last segment. We covered all that.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do that with you. So it's been interesting.
Speaker 1: Pablo, a couple weeks ago, Hops on the show is like,
Speaker 1: we're going to sign for four players, so we're expecting
Speaker 1: four players. Kurt's a little more tempered, Jason's like everybody's dad.
Speaker 1: It's hard to exactly understand exactly how this is going
Speaker 1: to go. What are you expecting once the window opens
Speaker 1: multiple players, what positions and what do you think it
Speaker 1: means for RSL.
Speaker 4: So, based on reports internationally and based off what I've
Speaker 4: been told, rsel's planning on bringing in two number nine
Speaker 4: one out and out number nine old school throwback center.
Speaker 3: Forward type yep, love it.
Speaker 4: Doesn't necessarily need to beat guys one on one, but
Speaker 4: is there for uh service from the wide area? Indeed,
Speaker 4: Alex Catronas exactly. And then another guy, Ruwan Kruz who's
Speaker 4: been at Botafogo, a club that RSL is too familiar
Speaker 4: with because they moved for since Avarino there. And then
Speaker 4: your guy uh Elias what was it Ilias Manu Manuel Yeah,
Speaker 4: ended up going there after saying he didn't want to
Speaker 4: come here. So it sounds like those two are either
Speaker 4: done or close to being done. And then if that's
Speaker 4: the case, it's a fascinating decision because clearly that means
Speaker 4: that the club is not satisfied with what your guy.
Speaker 4: And you have many guys. Big Willie Golds, Big Willy
Speaker 4: Goles has has been able to to add to the mix.
Speaker 4: I think he has two goals too, okay.
Speaker 2: But he has the ability to hold up.
Speaker 3: He does.
Speaker 4: But this but this, but this new guy apparently who
Speaker 4: I think you pronounced his name last week correctly, Victor Olatunji. Yeah, yep,
Speaker 4: younger twenty five years old, had a decent year at
Speaker 4: Sparta Prague, which is, you know, one of the better
Speaker 4: lower level clubs at a lower level in Europe. But yeah,
Speaker 4: it's an interesting move. I wonder if it changes how
Speaker 4: Pablo wants to play. I wonder if one of those
Speaker 4: guys will be more tactfully tactically sorry ambiguous, meaning like
Speaker 4: they can play different spots or or if you know,
Speaker 4: Pablo has to change formation. Basically, they're not They're not
Speaker 4: a good offensive team. They haven't been all year. Their
Speaker 4: best offensive player was gone for five weeks, and they
Speaker 4: as we saw last week against Cincinnati, they were the
Speaker 4: better team against one of the better teams in MLS,
Speaker 4: but they weren't able to score any goals.
Speaker 1: So go ahead, no, No, I was gonna say, I'm
Speaker 1: just looking for this secondary story because we talked about
Speaker 1: the old Atanji kid.
Speaker 2: Is the oly Tannji kid, the true striker?
Speaker 5: Yes, oh he is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yep.
Speaker 1: So what I was gonna say is yesterday on the show,
Speaker 1: Pablo refer to the two attacking players as a nine
Speaker 1: and a nine and a half.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so yeah, there's your there's your there's your tactical,
Speaker 4: ambiguous player who can probably step in on the wing
Speaker 4: or play the ten. Because I think while a lot
Speaker 4: of people have fallen in love with the idea that
Speaker 4: Diego is a ten, I think he is another guy
Speaker 4: that can just float because of the amount of hard
Speaker 4: work rate that he puts in, you know, back on
Speaker 4: defense exactly. And Diego Gonzalbez, outside of his winner against Portland,
Speaker 4: just hasn't cut it.
Speaker 3: Last week, he was very bad.
Speaker 4: He brought a lot of promising attacking plays to a
Speaker 4: screeching hall against yes again by you know, due to
Speaker 4: his indecision. So yeah, and nine and nine and a
Speaker 4: half makes sense. But you know, oursel once again is
Speaker 4: banking on the summer transfer window in order to put
Speaker 4: wind in their sales, and I think that's a very
Speaker 4: dubious ass considering international players who come over in the
Speaker 4: summer do not exactly hit the ground running in this league.
Speaker 3: We talked about that ad nausea.
Speaker 1: And we've seen it here. Yeah, like multiple times. The
Speaker 1: mark suit stuff is weird, man, Like.
Speaker 4: They they bet on a bunch of guys after the
Speaker 4: sale of Andrescomaz they didn't pan out. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: it's a bunch of swings and misses. But I did
Speaker 4: feel like there were moments with There were moments. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but it hasn't been for a very long time.
Speaker 1: No, and Jason, when I get honest, Jay, excuse me,
Speaker 1: when I get honest, Jayson, it's it's a good time.
Speaker 1: He essentially said he's been horrible since he came back
Speaker 1: from Poland. I wonder, I wonder if it's homesickness. It's
Speaker 1: just another example of a guy that's signed in a
Speaker 1: summer window and you're like, wait a second, he's got
Speaker 1: some stuff and it just hasn't panned.
Speaker 4: Out, hasn't panned out. Yeah, Diogo, Lachlan Brook your guy.
Speaker 2: You gotta have some guy I'll take.
Speaker 4: I'll take Lachlan, my guy, Lachlan Brook, who I would
Speaker 4: imagine it's not long for rsl on the crest of.
Speaker 3: The shirt.
Speaker 4: And Dominic Marxich, who they believed the cell of originally
Speaker 4: was Look what we just did with Andres. This can
Speaker 4: be your path and conceivably it works if you're able
Speaker 4: to I don't know, put everything that you're asked to
Speaker 4: put in training sessions and style of play into into
Speaker 4: into purpose. But we know that it took Andres over
Speaker 4: a year with Pablo to to have everything click. But
Speaker 4: not every player has the pace that Andres has, or
Speaker 4: like the finishing ability he was, you know, uh, one
Speaker 4: of the top assist makers in the league last year
Speaker 4: before he moved. So three swings and misses last summer
Speaker 4: on the wake of in the wake of Andres sale,
Speaker 4: So now you have to wonder, you're bringing in two
Speaker 4: guys from from overseas, can they step in and alleviate
Speaker 4: the pressure from Diego Luna because outside of Diego there
Speaker 4: just isn't much. And Xavier Gozo's been good, but he's
Speaker 4: you watch him, he's still a very young kid. You
Speaker 4: can still tell that he's maybe trying to do it
Speaker 4: all on his own way too often, which you know
Speaker 4: is part of the learning curve. Diego was like that
Speaker 4: a few years ago, which is why you know fans
Speaker 4: were up up in arms because you know, they were
Speaker 4: mad that Pablo was starting. I can't even remember guys
Speaker 4: that weren't that aren't even on the team anymore. Over Over,
Speaker 4: Diego and you know, it takes some time. So if
Speaker 4: if if Rsel can find a way to get these
Speaker 4: guys in the mix, understanding how Pablo wants to play
Speaker 4: and acclimated quickly, then they have a chance. But like
Speaker 4: you asked me last week, if you know that that
Speaker 4: decent run of form, the four games, unbeaten or whatever,
Speaker 4: has me changing my thoughts about the ceiling of this team.
Speaker 4: The Cincinnati game was kind of a perfect encapsulation of
Speaker 4: who the team is this year.
Speaker 1: Pablo also, I'm trying, I'm trying to think because you
Speaker 1: brought up Pablo not starting Diego because there was chi Cho,
Speaker 1: there was Andres, there was Matt Crooks, and and then
Speaker 1: there was a spot that Diego did fill, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't consistent. Pablo also referenced the potential of adding to
Speaker 1: the back line, which I thought was interesting because defensively
Speaker 1: they have been pretty stout. Rafa has been the best
Speaker 1: player probably outside of Diego on the roster.
Speaker 2: So if if if we say.
Speaker 1: They're bringing in the nine, the nine and a half,
Speaker 1: we'll use my guy, Pops, he's my guy. We'll use
Speaker 1: his language, uh, and then they're gonna make an addition
Speaker 1: to the back line. Let's say it's three editions. What
Speaker 1: do you think that total spend will be? Because we
Speaker 1: talked about this yesterday, I think the Millers have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to really gain some brownie points with the fan
Speaker 1: base that is understandably skeptical, skeptical about ownership and their
Speaker 1: unwillingness to spend. For all the promises of the Blitzer
Speaker 1: Smith group, they didn't spend. You know, they did a
Speaker 1: little here or there, but then they ended up selling
Speaker 1: for a premium and didn't reinvest the money into the team.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that sits well with fans.
Speaker 1: So what do you think the spend looks like and
Speaker 1: what do you think the Millers could do during this
Speaker 1: window to maybe endear themselves to RSL fans that are waiting.
Speaker 4: Right It looks to be on the surface right now,
Speaker 4: pretty similar to standard RSL spending practices reports out of Europe.
Speaker 4: Is you know two and a half? I think for
Speaker 4: all Atunji, I don't know if our guy Tommy Scoops
Speaker 4: has has been able to confirm that or not. I
Speaker 4: haven't seen anything, but that is kind of on part
Speaker 4: with what RSEL you know, buys players for. Like I
Speaker 4: think mark Zuk was one five Ish Diogo was three,
Speaker 4: I think, and you know when you get for the
Speaker 4: for the cruise guy coming from Boda Fogo, it's a
Speaker 4: little different because the loan option you don't really have
Speaker 4: to pay all that much, but they you can loan
Speaker 4: with an intent to potentially buy, so they'll they'll get
Speaker 4: a player on loan and then Botafogo, his club will say,
Speaker 4: if you like him enough, this is our price point.
Speaker 4: If you want to buy him at the end of
Speaker 4: his loan spell, this is how much you have to
Speaker 4: pay now. I would imagine that will be much higher
Speaker 4: because of you know, Botafogo is one of the best
Speaker 4: teams in Brazil. This kid, by all accounts, has promise
Speaker 4: young player, big stout guy. But if they bring in
Speaker 4: a third player, I would imagine it could be within
Speaker 4: the league, maybe through a trade mechanism, or if they
Speaker 4: are going to add a right back or whatever. You're
Speaker 4: not going to necessarily break the bank at that position.
Speaker 4: But all in all, if you're if you're talking about
Speaker 4: money spent, I would be stunned. If oursel goes over
Speaker 4: five million this summer transfer window total.
Speaker 2: Is it cruise? I believe it's cruiser.
Speaker 1: Okay, our guy Tommy has nothing on it, but I
Speaker 1: have some info on him in front of me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Big Kid twenty four and I think the old Tanja
Speaker 1: Kid is twenty five.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 1: So Jason and Kurt and Pablo have been pretty consistent
Speaker 1: that they're not looking for some quick fix. They want
Speaker 1: to add to the group that could essentially grow together
Speaker 1: because it is a young core. I guess these moves
Speaker 1: would indicate that that's the direction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but.
Speaker 4: It's again, it's it's asking a lot, and I would
Speaker 4: argue too much for two brand new players and to
Speaker 4: come in to gel with guys that they've never met,
Speaker 4: to play in a new country that they've never met,
Speaker 4: to get on those you know, flights and fly all
Speaker 4: over the country and get used to the the weather
Speaker 4: conditions and all those various dynamics that you face here
Speaker 4: versus everywhere. I guess Brazil you're hauling quite a bit.
Speaker 4: It's a huge country. But like my point is is
Speaker 4: that more often than not, you need all types of
Speaker 4: international players to be in if you're going to bring
Speaker 4: them in in the in the true off season in
Speaker 4: order for them to have a full off season with
Speaker 4: the team. But that doesn't always work out, as we've
Speaker 4: seen in previous years. Times you just kind of have
Speaker 4: to take take what you get. But yeah, oursel is
Speaker 4: they're put They're putting their chips in on the attack,
Speaker 4: which they knew that they had to do.
Speaker 3: So time will tell if it pays off.
Speaker 2: What was your highlight from the MLS Skills Challenge last night?
Speaker 2: What was your favorite moment?
Speaker 3: Oh, diego hitting, hitting the hitting the targets.
Speaker 2: Did you watch it?
Speaker 3: I saw a clip on the internet.
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it.
Speaker 3: No, No, MESSI though MESSI was like, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2: And he's not playing tonight either.
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess, very very you don't blame him,
Speaker 4: but it's hilarious that this dude, basically and we knew
Speaker 4: this was going to be the case, he gets to
Speaker 4: call his on shots like at a level that no
Speaker 4: other professional player maybe in the history of sports, has
Speaker 4: been able to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know this is a false equivalency, but
Speaker 1: I do harken back to the Beckham experiment.
Speaker 2: Shout out ground Wall, Rest in Peace yep. Great book,
Speaker 2: by the way, yep.
Speaker 1: And I was tremendously impressed at how much Beckham got it.
Speaker 1: He knew why he was there, right, and so he
Speaker 1: showed up wherever they asked him to show up, he
Speaker 1: showed up. You're playing in the All Star Game, you're
Speaker 1: making this road trip. And did he get hurt? Of course?
Speaker 1: But and again I know it's a false equivalency because
Speaker 1: Beckham is not messy, because nobody's messy. But you think
Speaker 1: MLS is recouping what they hope to recoup based off
Speaker 1: of the investment.
Speaker 4: That's a great question, I wonder, and this will come
Speaker 4: out probably in the coming years, like what the Apple
Speaker 4: deal really was able to accomplish, if anything at all.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think the returns have been great.
Speaker 4: I don't by all accounts, probably not. But the reality
Speaker 4: is is you're able to sign the best player of
Speaker 4: all time and bring him in. But we talk about this,
Speaker 4: We talked about this, Damn's topic all the time. Is
Speaker 4: soccer going to change in this country because of ABC
Speaker 4: or D No?
Speaker 3: No, it's not. It's awesome.
Speaker 4: If MESSI came here, you and I would be like,
Speaker 4: how do we get on the train for sure and
Speaker 4: go to aff and maybe go get some Costa Vita
Speaker 4: and you know, enjoy the night. Yeah, right, yeah, ok, yeah, right,
Speaker 4: I like it, but it's outside of him making a
Speaker 4: few appearances on PTI every once in a while.
Speaker 3: Like it just.
Speaker 5: It.
Speaker 4: It was awesome. It is awesome, but it's not it's
Speaker 4: not gonna ever, it's gonna pale in comparison to what
Speaker 4: Beckham did. I think, just because because where the league
Speaker 4: was at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Beckham's continued investment in the league and continued
Speaker 1: involvement in the league and desire to spend time here.
Speaker 2: It it really was.
Speaker 1: As much as the Beckham thing could have worked as
Speaker 1: a game changer, it actually did. I don't know that
Speaker 1: the league could have milked anything else out of that
Speaker 1: whole situation, because he was such an ambassador and he
Speaker 1: was so nice. It was the wildest thing to talk
Speaker 1: to David Beckham, this global superstar, global celebrity. His celebrity
Speaker 1: at the time may have out taste his soccer.
Speaker 3: So handsome, good looking dude, yep.
Speaker 2: Weird, high pitched voice, but so nice, like when when
Speaker 2: we had him here, every time he was here, could
Speaker 2: not have been better. The league really better.
Speaker 3: Right, I told you my story right about at the Virgin.
Speaker 2: Store yeeah, yeah, at ICD stores by the.
Speaker 4: Way, shout out Virgin Megastore at the Gateway for sure.
Speaker 4: Great great location. I mean, the Gateways making a comeback
Speaker 4: a little bit, is it. I'm gonna give it. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna give it to do. They got a cool little
Speaker 4: food cord down there. But yeah, me and David Beckham
Speaker 4: the only people in the Virgin Megastore on like a
Speaker 4: Tuesday and just me just being like hey man, and
Speaker 4: he was like, hey, how's it going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, cool, No, that's rad.
Speaker 1: The kids will never understand the era in life where
Speaker 1: you heard one good song and then had to go
Speaker 1: pay seventeen ninety nine for a CD that mostly sucked
Speaker 1: out side of one good song.
Speaker 2: Spotify would have saved me so much money.
Speaker 4: That's a good way. That's a good point. We should
Speaker 4: rank our top five underwhelming album purchases of all time
Speaker 4: next week.
Speaker 3: I will come back. That's a good one.
Speaker 2: I'll have to think about that one.
Speaker 4: That's good when we can even put in a little
Speaker 4: breakout graphic. Top five, you know, top five spans top five. Chris,
Speaker 4: I like it. Let's do top Let's do it on Wednesday.
Speaker 2: I have one answer right off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was in high school and uh, driving home
Speaker 1: in basketball practice, I believe and hold my hand from
Speaker 1: Hooty and the Blowfish came on the radio.
Speaker 2: Don't look at me that way.
Speaker 1: I'm being vulnerable and honest here, my guy, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I like this song. I'm gonna go buy a Hoodie
Speaker 1: in the Blowfish CD.
Speaker 2: And it sucked. It was a bad, bad move.
Speaker 4: Is Hoody and the Blowfish the worst jam band of
Speaker 4: the nineties?
Speaker 2: Don't call them a jam band please, They're not.
Speaker 4: How about the most the biggest failed attempt at a jam?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's yeah, that's accurate. String Cheese incident maybe on
Speaker 1: the list as well. See this is what you do now,
Speaker 1: it's all I'm thinking about. The top five most underwhelming
Speaker 1: albums of all time?
Speaker 2: All right, final RSL thing.
Speaker 1: We'll do some college football coming up on the other side,
Speaker 1: because you reference, you know, last year summer transfer window,
Speaker 1: three pretty big swings and three pretty big misses, and maybe,
Speaker 1: like we have to be fair, Diego has been better.
Speaker 2: But he could not have been worse.
Speaker 1: Like if it was worse, he probably already would be
Speaker 1: on his way somewhere else.
Speaker 2: See that's how bad it was for a while, or
Speaker 2: they can't get anybody to take him, also a possibility.
Speaker 1: Do you think Elliott deserves a little more credit for
Speaker 1: the I think it was three years, four years on
Speaker 1: the job as the g.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean we listen. He was there when
Speaker 4: they were basically being run by the league during.
Speaker 3: The Deloitte fiasco.
Speaker 4: He facilitated bringing in guys like even though he would
Speaker 4: eventually become a locker room headache, like since Avno is
Speaker 4: one of the most talented players that's ever played. For sure,
Speaker 4: like I think right now, I know, I know your
Speaker 4: guy Jason is all about vibes in the crest. RSL
Speaker 4: would take a Sava Reno right now, like it's not
Speaker 4: there's no question. So and I know they had a
Speaker 4: pass with him because he left, then came back and
Speaker 4: left again. But yes, Elliott deserves some flowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the results bear it out. And we'll see
Speaker 1: what this new window brings the club. Right now, they're
Speaker 1: still on the outside looking in, but have a chance
Speaker 1: to make the postseason.
Speaker 2: If you can make the playoffs, you never know what
Speaker 2: could happen.
Speaker 1: All right, before we catch a break, want to let
Speaker 1: you know you can help two hundred children at the
Speaker 1: road home start school and style. Stop by the advocates
Speaker 1: and Ogden, American Fork or Murray. Pick an apple from
Speaker 1: the tree and you can supply clothing and backpacks for
Speaker 1: a child at the road home. Every child deserves an advocate.
Speaker 1: Stop by today. See ESPN seven hundred Sports dot com
Speaker 1: for more details. Will catch a break more with k
Speaker 1: coming up on the other side right here on ESPN
Speaker 1: seven hundred show rolls along today and my friend Melissa
Speaker 1: from Sound Sleep Medical joined us live in studio once again.
Speaker 2: Melissa, how are.
Speaker 7: You doing great?
Speaker 2: All right?
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Speaker 1: And I'm sure some people are thinking, Okay, they're talking
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Speaker 6: I mean it's a three D scan of your teeth,
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Speaker 2: They have six locations in Utah. Get weird on a Wednesday.
Speaker 1: The Little George Michael I don't hate It, Chris Comaradie
Speaker 1: live in studio, Any motivations with you landing on this
Speaker 1: George Michael track and you're talking to a George Michael fan, unapologizing.
Speaker 4: You asked for eighties music. It's a good one, it is,
Speaker 4: and it is part of lots of silly, bad nineties
Speaker 4: comedy movies. The first one that comes to mind this
Speaker 4: night at the Roxbury or the Roxbury.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's and it's a good I mean.
Speaker 2: It works.
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you this, Chris, but we
Speaker 1: are thirty eight days away from kickoff for the top football.
Speaker 3: Where did the summer go? I'm depressed.
Speaker 2: I know, man, we blink in it's here. We still
Speaker 2: have a good few months of warm weather.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, for sure, but there's I don't know. The
Speaker 4: summer I feel like is getting shorter as we get older.
Speaker 2: That's fair, okay, But you're going to be on assignment soon.
Speaker 1: Any exciting athletic college football endeavors you'd like to inform
Speaker 1: us about.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I'm going to be going to the air
Speaker 4: Lingus Classic or whatever it's called in Dublin, Ireland for
Speaker 4: Week zero of college football Iowa State Kansas State, which
Speaker 4: is known in some circles as the Pharmageddon rivalry never been.
Speaker 4: My assignment is to go over and figure out how
Speaker 4: college football is landing in the homeland, even though I
Speaker 4: might not look like it. I'm fifty percent Irish.
Speaker 2: Are Irish?
Speaker 4: Yeah okay, yep, so might have to go find my
Speaker 4: ancestry somewhere. I'll get to be there for I mean
Speaker 4: it's cool, but it's also like going international for three
Speaker 4: and a half days, but my brain and body will
Speaker 4: be not in a great place. Takes a minute to
Speaker 4: recalibrate correct. So yeah, that's that's on the horizon. So yeah,
Speaker 4: you talked about thirty eight days till Utah kicks off.
Speaker 4: I'm going to be on a flight across the pond
Speaker 4: much earlier than that.
Speaker 2: That sounds exciting.
Speaker 1: I have an aunt who is very adapted genealogy.
Speaker 2: If you want me to put you in touch for there?
Speaker 3: Does she work for the company that got hacked?
Speaker 2: I don't believe.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: I feel like every extended LDS family has one or
Speaker 1: two family members that just crush genealogy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have one?
Speaker 4: I don't, but maybe I'll get your aunt's contact info.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you put you in touch with the
Speaker 1: folk who you need to go say hello?
Speaker 3: Do they find them?
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 4: See, Like, that's where I'm I understand the Internet is
Speaker 4: is awesome but also dark and scary. Indeed, how do
Speaker 4: you I guess I'll just have to entrust him. I mean,
Speaker 4: there is that one show where they have the celebrities
Speaker 4: on and they like they track their their ancestry, and
Speaker 4: it's been like, you know, they get celebrities on and
Speaker 4: do all that thing. But I just don't know, like
Speaker 4: who's trying to care about me? But maybe the internet does.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. I honestly don't know the method
Speaker 1: behind the madness. But my aunt is insanely organized. Like
Speaker 1: every year at our reunion we do the thing.
Speaker 3: She based in Utah.
Speaker 1: She lives in Arizona now okay, but she rolls up
Speaker 1: for the family reunion.
Speaker 2: Then we sit down and we learn it.
Speaker 3: I will thank you.
Speaker 1: Are you as obsessed with this astronomer CEO Coldplay story.
Speaker 2: As as I?
Speaker 4: Admittedly? When I was in the throes of parenthood solo
Speaker 4: last week, I missed it originally, but I finally caught
Speaker 4: on and very funny. Apparently RCEL had a pretty good
Speaker 4: fan gag they did at their expense last week. Listen,
Speaker 4: man can't get caught slipping And Chris Martin, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know if if if he had a if
Speaker 4: there's a vendetta in play here, or if he just
Speaker 4: saw somebody who looked really happy and was like, I'm
Speaker 4: happy for those guys.
Speaker 1: But I don't know that there was anything milicious behind it. It
Speaker 1: looked like a lovely couple experiencing a cold Play.
Speaker 3: Concert for about point five seconds.
Speaker 1: There's so many incredible angles here, like the fact that
Speaker 1: the woman is the head of HR for the company
Speaker 1: just makes it. Yes, shout out John Paul Chef's kiss.
Speaker 1: Unless I've missed something, because the other thing there was
Speaker 1: like a statement that was going around that turned out
Speaker 1: to be fake that the astronomer CEO apparently released, but
Speaker 1: then it wasn't his statement, so I don't really know
Speaker 1: what the latest is. Apparently he's been fired. The board
Speaker 1: got together and was like, this is a bad look.
Speaker 1: My favorite part is the woman's husband has said nothing.
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of obsessed with this dude, Like I
Speaker 1: wonder if it's like a get out of jail free
Speaker 1: card for him, if he's like, free your last, free last.
Speaker 3: Or if he's like, can I get free coal plate
Speaker 3: tickets out of this?
Speaker 1: They're gonna get paid the CEO's wife, if you gonna
Speaker 1: make some cash?
Speaker 3: Never heard? Is it astronomer astronomer? What is the company?
Speaker 2: I don't know see is this good for that company?
Speaker 1: In the day and age where currency is attention, is
Speaker 1: it actually something that will benefit the company.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe a blip, but I want to say it's
Speaker 4: like an AI thing, But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: The whole thing is just I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's sad in a way, but also very comical in
Speaker 1: a way that that's how they were outed. I do
Speaker 1: not have a stomach for cheaters. But you know, anyway,
Speaker 1: back to college football. So speaking of cheatings, yeah, talk
Speaker 1: about a segue.
Speaker 2: Here we go back to college football.
Speaker 1: We are right around the corner Big ten Media Days
Speaker 1: right now in Vegas at Mandalay Bay. Were you asked
Speaker 1: to go to any media days? You were not assigned
Speaker 1: any negative How did you get out of that stuff?
Speaker 3: Very carefully?
Speaker 2: I truly would like to know how you get out
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 4: Well, Luckily, our staff size is pretty decent, and I
Speaker 4: work with people who are a lot more famous in
Speaker 4: the in the world of college football reporting, and they
Speaker 4: know if they put me out there, I'm just going
Speaker 4: to draw so much attention to myself, you know.
Speaker 2: Because that's how you are. Yeah. Well, at Big twelve
Speaker 2: Media Days, there was a room allocated to the athletic Yeah,
Speaker 2: and Mike Feldman, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Bruce was there, David Euban was there. Justin Williams was there.
Speaker 4: Chris Vanini, who is my guy, and for a multitude
Speaker 4: of reasons. He for some reason, people at our company
Speaker 4: and readers confuse us all the time because of the
Speaker 4: slight similarities between the sounding of our last name.
Speaker 3: Camrodnie Vanini.
Speaker 4: So like there's been multiple times where people have like
Speaker 4: sent me a slack and be like, hey, I have
Speaker 4: a question about your story. It's like, Nope, not me.
Speaker 4: It's Chris.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 3: So he's my Italian brother.
Speaker 2: Well, let's get him on the show because I read
Speaker 2: what Chris ries so today Matt Baker, you know, Matt.
Speaker 4: Good friend of the Good Friend of the program, a
Speaker 4: genius when it comes to open records requests, and just
Speaker 4: a very very good reporter. He was hired in the
Speaker 4: last year and he's been a terrific ad.
Speaker 2: So really interesting piece today.
Speaker 1: Actually, I guess it came out yesterday because Sean was
Speaker 1: talking about it on his show. Because you know, this
Speaker 1: is the time of year where you start to read
Speaker 1: the college football previews, you start to listen to the
Speaker 1: college football pods, and you start to get ready for
Speaker 1: the season. And I'm always reminded how many idiots cover
Speaker 1: the sport and how many.
Speaker 3: Like idiots cover all sports.
Speaker 1: It's true, but I'm always reminded when I dig back in, like, oh,
Speaker 1: this media ecosystem actually contains a lot of people that
Speaker 1: clearly are pandering to the conference they cover or the
Speaker 1: school they cover, and their fans are not media members.
Speaker 2: And there's this.
Speaker 1: Kind of landscape of Big twelve media that's starting to
Speaker 1: feel like the way PAC twelve media felt at the
Speaker 1: very end. Like John Canzano came on the show and
Speaker 1: he was basically outlining his side of things, and it
Speaker 1: was draped in this belief that the PAC twelve was
Speaker 1: going to make it, because of course he covers the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve.
Speaker 2: He wants the conference to survive. It's better for him
Speaker 2: and his business and his sub stack or whatever he's doing.
Speaker 2: And I push back on the things that he was
Speaker 2: bringing to the table because I just disagree with him.
Speaker 1: He started yelling at me that I wasn't listening. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm listening, but you're wrong. This thing is done. It's dead.
Speaker 1: You could tell with all of the horrible decision making
Speaker 1: that went back all the way to Larry Scott and
Speaker 1: look the first four or five years of Utah in
Speaker 1: the PAC twelve. Larry Scott walked on water here because
Speaker 1: he was the commissioner that was part of the decision
Speaker 1: making process that landed Utah on the Big twelve. And
Speaker 1: then of course George Klaioffcoff, they wait way too long
Speaker 1: to go to market with their rights.
Speaker 2: We know the deal.
Speaker 1: And Gonzano's like yelling at me that I'm not listening
Speaker 1: to them. I'm like, I am listening to You're just wrong.
Speaker 1: This thing is cooked. And I keep hearing this like
Speaker 1: Big twelve media approach to try to spin it like
Speaker 1: the Big twelve was on par with a Big ten
Speaker 1: in the SEC, which it is not in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form.
Speaker 2: Not competitive, not on a competitive level, not.
Speaker 1: On a revenue generating level, not on a national interest level.
Speaker 2: There's no world where.
Speaker 1: The Big twelve is even close to the Big ten
Speaker 1: of the SEC. And Matt today with a really interesting
Speaker 1: exercise NCAA FBS program valuation projections.
Speaker 4: I rtied that for you. Thank you, I seriously did.
Speaker 4: I thought like this would be good for.
Speaker 1: Well, That's exactly why it came up on my feet
Speaker 1: because I follow Mat now, but I didn't prior to
Speaker 1: your retweet. So, of the top thirty schools, I already
Speaker 1: read the list. But of the top thirty schools, there
Speaker 1: are two Big twelve schools. One is Utah with evaluation
Speaker 1: of five hundred and thirty nine MIL. One is TCU
Speaker 1: with evaluation of five hundred and twenty three MIL. Okay
Speaker 1: the top and you guys know which conferences they're in.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: All of these schools are either in the SEC or
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, Notre Dame in Michigan, Bama, Oklahoma, USC, Tennessee, LSU,
Speaker 1: Penn State, Florida, Auburn, Oregon, Texas A and m Washington Nebraska.
Speaker 1: The first team on this list that's not in the
Speaker 1: Big Ten of the SEC is Florida State. Who's in
Speaker 1: the ACC Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, all ranked ahead of
Speaker 1: any of the Big twelve schools, which is Utah TCU.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Another piece of evidence is to where this conference exists
Speaker 1: in the ecosystem of college football.
Speaker 2: Regardless of what people who shill for the conference want
Speaker 2: to tell you.
Speaker 4: The wise man once said, if you will it, it
Speaker 4: is no dream. Oh Walter subcheck like the Big Labask yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean I'm with you. It seemed like that that's
Speaker 4: kind of where the conference finds itself. And granted a
Speaker 4: couple of years of like astoundingly good football changes this.
Speaker 4: If the Big Twelve can get two or three teams
Speaker 4: in the playoff in the next three years, I think
Speaker 4: maybe you start to, you know, peel back the onion
Speaker 4: a little bit. Maybe you can weasel your way into
Speaker 4: the conversation. But until you do that, ain't nobody going
Speaker 4: to be changing the status quo for you, no matter
Speaker 4: how much you no matter how much you talk about it,
Speaker 4: no matter how much the Shills want to just say, like,
Speaker 4: I promise this is gonna happen. I promise this is
Speaker 4: a big deal. No man, The powers that be are
Speaker 4: the powers that be for a reason, and the Big
Speaker 4: Twelve has so much work to do. You know, they
Speaker 4: have good basketball programs, it's great. But other than that,
Speaker 4: the moneymakers football it is, always will be, and it
Speaker 4: does not bode this conference well that every off season
Speaker 4: you're gonna be able to go in and be like
Speaker 4: throw a dart at the board and be like, who's
Speaker 4: gonna win it this year? UCF Okay, Houston, all right, Utah, sure,
Speaker 4: b Yu whatever like, that's that's gonna wa that's the
Speaker 4: conference is going to be this way for a while.
Speaker 3: That's the reality they're facing.
Speaker 1: BYU's valuation comes in at fiftieth in the country and
Speaker 1: ninth in the Big twelve at three hundred and six million.
Speaker 2: That felt low to me.
Speaker 3: Too many extenuating circumstances.
Speaker 4: It's such a unique place, as you know, it's a
Speaker 4: private school, so probably not everything is going to always
Speaker 4: be publicly divulged.
Speaker 3: They're not.
Speaker 4: They're not subject to public record requests or grammar requests.
Speaker 3: But I agree with you. My guess would be that
Speaker 3: that's part of the reason why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe it's a lack of understanding or the
Speaker 1: lack of information to your point, because I think what
Speaker 1: Matt did is really fascinating.
Speaker 2: Jake raetzath Lands.
Speaker 3: Of tu Lane, Yeah, are you stoked?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Matt Brown, And Matt's funny guy. He had a funny
Speaker 1: line he said.
Speaker 2: Jake just left the place where there are four Jews
Speaker 2: and hundreds of thousands of Mormons to go to a
Speaker 2: school where there's hundreds of thousands of Jews and probably
Speaker 2: four Mormons. Yeah, a little bit of a culture shot
Speaker 2: for our guy.
Speaker 4: I think, I mean, the manner in which Jake's BYU
Speaker 4: career ended is messy, and it's unique to the school,
Speaker 4: but it is it is somewhat like intriguing that we
Speaker 4: as a as a college football ecosystem are so fascinated
Speaker 4: where Jake Rhetzlaf is going. Like Jake was a decent quarterback,
Speaker 4: but like he wasn't. This isn't Zach Wilson the year
Speaker 4: he went number two in the draft. Like Jake was
Speaker 4: good and b Yu was you know, in the mix
Speaker 4: for the conference title late into November. But it's I mean,
Speaker 4: Jake has to beat out a bunch of other guys
Speaker 4: a too lane brought in as transfers. I mean, Jake's
Speaker 4: not even a transfer, He's a walk on because the
Speaker 4: portal's not open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was kind of a weird dynamic, this whole thing.
Speaker 1: They weren't even allowed to contact him go they had
Speaker 1: to go through his reps. Colorado three hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: eight mil. That's eleventh in the Big twelve. Found that
Speaker 1: kind of interesting.
Speaker 3: Ninety nine percent of that is due to Dion for sure.
Speaker 1: It is actually excuse me, that's seventh in the Big twelve.
Speaker 1: It's actually a couple of spots ahead of BYU. I'm
Speaker 1: stunned that we have not seen this actually come to
Speaker 1: fruition where private equity has been infused into college football.
Speaker 2: It feels like it's just a matter of time.
Speaker 4: I think Greg Sinki was asked about this at SEC
Speaker 4: media days or one of the commissioners was recently, and
Speaker 4: they said, right now, it just it doesn't make sense
Speaker 4: for their conference. So if you have somebody publicly saying that,
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess we're still a little ways away.
Speaker 4: But as we've seen that nothing matters. Everything is up
Speaker 4: subject to change. It's going to change. The CSC got,
Speaker 4: you know, sued into oblivion in just a matter of
Speaker 4: weeks and now they're backtracking on all their stuff. Like
Speaker 4: at this point, I understand why some fans would want
Speaker 4: to understand the minutia of at all. But for a
Speaker 4: lot of fans, my guess is just like, let's just
Speaker 4: wait till we line up and kick the ball.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think most people, you know, I am interested in
Speaker 1: the mechanisms that makes the sport tick. How many regular
Speaker 1: sports fans consumers are interested in those things?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think most people, to your point, just want Saturdays
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 3: Fall, Saturdays in the fall, and just less Migraines.
Speaker 2: Oh, how are we doing there?
Speaker 3: By the way, we're getting there. You're hanging in exceerin Migraine.
Speaker 2: You got Etcen.
Speaker 1: You have it like in a holster, ready to ready
Speaker 1: to access at any time.
Speaker 3: Just throw it out there.
Speaker 2: You know who will be the MVP of the MLS
Speaker 2: All Star Game tonight?
Speaker 3: Are we assuming it's an MLS player or lega MS?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say I couldn't name.
Speaker 2: Five players, man, no idea?
Speaker 4: Can you name one other player and that's not Diego
Speaker 4: Luna on the MLS All Start team.
Speaker 2: Hey, we got to get roosters in here. Uh did
Speaker 2: Chea make it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Don't ask me questions you can't answer. Put me on
Speaker 2: the spot like that, man, did Aaron Herrera make it?
Speaker 2: Do we exclude former RSL player?
Speaker 3: No? Just keep bringing up former RSL players?
Speaker 1: Dude, I don't watch MLS outside r I watch RSL
Speaker 1: the other night. Uh, nothing was going on, So I
Speaker 1: think I fired up El Classico.
Speaker 2: That was kind of fun, But no, I don't watch our.
Speaker 3: Traffic co bro, Come on, see how dare you offended.
Speaker 1: On several levels. C K will set you loose. Good
Speaker 1: to see you all right, Chris Camarondie. We're going to
Speaker 1: bring in Ryles today. Voice the Youths will join us.
Speaker 1: My friend Reese Peck, friend of the show, is also
Speaker 1: going to stop by today live and studio. Appreciate Chris's
Speaker 1: time for stopping by today. Uh so we'll get to
Speaker 1: some of the other storylines. R s L is an
Speaker 1: action of local interest coming up on Saturday, Chichio Orango.
Speaker 2: We'll be back in town.
Speaker 1: But we are joined live in studio by a very
Speaker 1: special guest, our friends at Rooster's Brewing. Jamie stops by
Speaker 1: on a Wednesday. Right is that you?
Speaker 7: I'm actually read?
Speaker 1: You're ready? Wait, your name is read? My name is okay, good,
Speaker 1: let's get your right in front of that microphone.
Speaker 2: Madeline. Nice to meet you. How are you nice to
Speaker 2: meet So? Is it an easy parallel to say people
Speaker 2: call you red because you have red hair?
Speaker 8: Well, honestly, my granddad called me red when I was
Speaker 8: growing up, and as I worked in restaurants, it just
Speaker 8: kept sticking around.
Speaker 1: Are you one of those like lifetime in the service
Speaker 1: industry restaurant folk?
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I got my first serving job at fourteen in.
Speaker 2: Oklahoma at fourteen in Oklahoma, and you've kind of just
Speaker 2: ridden with it, huh, pretty much. See, I did it
Speaker 2: for let's get your right in front of that microphone.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: I did it for six months in college. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is a good everybody should.
Speaker 2: Have the experience.
Speaker 8: I completely agree.
Speaker 2: I was not very good at it, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm glad that I.
Speaker 1: Was able to find a ways to make a living.
Speaker 1: What do you like most about working in the service industry?
Speaker 8: Man, I know it's probably it's pretty cliche to say,
Speaker 8: but I love the people. I love getting this, like
Speaker 8: spend time especially. I've always worked at restaurants that have regulars. Sure,
Speaker 8: the bar worked out in college. I mean literally people
Speaker 8: walk in and you're pouring their drink before they sit down.
Speaker 8: That's fun, and I just like kind of building those relationships.
Speaker 8: I'm pretty scatterbrain or I to do multiple things at once.
Speaker 8: So if it's my personality, well.
Speaker 1: Well it's it's I always had tremendous rear because I
Speaker 1: worked with like professional servers, and they make good money,
Speaker 1: they know how to do it, they're organized, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think the first night I made like twelve bucks,
Speaker 1: and I went and got some Wendy's and I had
Speaker 1: like five dollars left over. So I'm like, I need
Speaker 1: to find something else to do something else. So Madison,
Speaker 1: we're flying blind a little bit.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 2: Are you with Roosters or are you with ketos?
Speaker 8: So I am with Roosters, You're with Roosters. I'm the
Speaker 8: Layton brewer for Roosters Brown Company.
Speaker 2: Okay, very nice. So Rooster's Brewing four locations too in Ogden,
Speaker 2: one in Leyton, and then one at the Airport Roostersbrewing
Speaker 2: Co dot Com. What do you want our listeners to
Speaker 2: know about? What do you have going out of Roosters.
Speaker 8: Well, we're kind of in the middle of our beer
Speaker 8: fest season. Tomorrow is Pian Beer Day, the little spinoff
Speaker 8: of Pioneer Day. Then indeed, indeed down at the Bee Stadium,
Speaker 8: we're going to be doing a beer fest that has
Speaker 8: dessert pairings. We're doing our honey Wheat with a bread
Speaker 8: pudding so I can buy and grave a little slice
Speaker 8: of that. It's honestly, it's a really wonderful event that
Speaker 8: they do for Pioneer's Day each year. We also have
Speaker 8: a couple other events coming up in October. We're actually
Speaker 8: having our very own brew.
Speaker 2: Fest up in Ogden, Are you really?
Speaker 7: We are for the love of beer.
Speaker 8: We've done it a couple of years. It's been a
Speaker 8: couple of years since we've done it, but when we
Speaker 8: first started opening, we did a couple fests, and this
Speaker 8: year with for our thirtieth anniversary, it is indeed, we
Speaker 8: decided to bring it back and we're going to do
Speaker 8: a whole big kit kaboodle off Bee Street in Ogden.
Speaker 7: It's October eleven.
Speaker 2: Very nice.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're able to tell me about these
Speaker 1: things because my talking Points have an event on June
Speaker 1: twenty first, so we're going to just go ahead and
Speaker 1: put that aside. So before we set you loose all
Speaker 1: the locations where can people go get more information?
Speaker 8: Absolutely so. Our original location that's thirty years old this
Speaker 8: year is on twenty fifth Street in Ogden. Our tap
Speaker 8: room which is a bar. All the other Roosters restaurants
Speaker 8: are family friendly, but the tap room at b Street
Speaker 8: is a bar, so you got to make sure you're twenty.
Speaker 3: One before you head there.
Speaker 8: We also have our late location and we have the
Speaker 8: location in the airport, so right.
Speaker 7: After you get through security. You can't miss it.
Speaker 1: Great to see you. Thanks for the knowledge and information.
Speaker 1: And you seem like a very pleasant person. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you're excellent at your job. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: All right, we got two hours down, two hours to go.
Speaker 1: We will catch a quick break and bring in the
Speaker 1: Voice of the Ute, Bill Riley, coming up on the
Speaker 1: other side.
Speaker 2: Right here on the ESPN seven hundred thirty eight days,
Speaker 2: thirty eight days away. Utah football is almost here.
Speaker 1: It's that time of year where it's tiding to look
Speaker 1: forward and get excited. And we've got big ten media
Speaker 1: days at Vandalay.
Speaker 2: Bay in Las Vegas. Did I say Vandalay Seinfeld on
Speaker 2: the mind? Mandalay Bay, Mandala Industry shout out?
Speaker 1: And then the AC is in Charlotte, the Voice of
Speaker 1: the Utes, and I believe Seinfeld fan Bill Riley on
Speaker 1: a Wednesday Rouse, Happy Wednesday?
Speaker 9: Are you would that be art? Vandala and Vandale Industries.
Speaker 2: What a weird error calling Mandalay Bay Vandalai Bay.
Speaker 1: I have recently done the Seinfeld rewatch. It is highly recommended.
Speaker 9: Cromerica Industries.
Speaker 2: Perhaps what is uh?
Speaker 1: Oh wait, you're a wire guy like the Bill Riley
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore of TV series.
Speaker 2: Do you have you have your top four?
Speaker 9: Wire one? I would say Game of Thrones too, well, Matt,
Speaker 9: anywhere they're on, they're up there.
Speaker 5: I am a.
Speaker 9: Really big Spence Friday Night Lights fan. The television show
Speaker 9: it was. It was fantastic, And then I would say
Speaker 9: probably Breaking Bad.
Speaker 1: Good call. Have you done a second rewatch on any
Speaker 1: of them?
Speaker 9: Well, I've probably watched The Wire four or five times.
Speaker 9: It's one of those go tos. And then occasionally you'll
Speaker 9: just pick one out. A Game of Thrones one rewatch,
Speaker 9: Breaking Bad a rewatch, and Friday Night Lights probably three
Speaker 9: or four rewatches because it went off the air like
Speaker 9: fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: So what's the Ryles take on Sopranos.
Speaker 9: I like the Sopranos, probably in my top ten. My
Speaker 9: only issue with the Sopranos, and again it was early
Speaker 9: appointment watching television. There was always one or two episodes
Speaker 9: in a season that really had nothing to do with
Speaker 9: the season plotline. Tony would go to Las Vegas and
Speaker 9: trip on acid and have weird dreams or you know,
Speaker 9: just something wild. So I love the Sopranos, but it's
Speaker 9: not quite Mount rushmore for me.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 1: Where would you rank college football on just the pantheon
Speaker 1: of watching TV?
Speaker 9: Well, in person watching amazing and on TV pretty good too,
Speaker 9: depending on who's producing it. Probably my favorite in person watch,
Speaker 9: just because of the passion and the difference in the state.
Speaker 9: I love the NFL, don't get me wrong, but the
Speaker 9: NFL is kind of all the same. Different levels of
Speaker 9: play on the field, high level, but the stadiums all
Speaker 9: kind of this.
Speaker 5: I like the.
Speaker 9: Different traditions and venues and parts of the country you
Speaker 9: get with college football.
Speaker 1: So thirty eight days out riles. What's this time of
Speaker 1: year on the calendar? Like for the voice of the
Speaker 1: youths and the director of broadcasting, what's the energy in
Speaker 1: the building right now?
Speaker 9: Well, it's kind of I mean, it's a week from
Speaker 9: today the practice starts spend, so it's kind of counting
Speaker 9: it down and getting excited. And we launched today our
Speaker 9: podcast series of my podcast with the different coaching staff.
Speaker 10: We're going to do two a week.
Speaker 9: We'll have one drop today on the Utah Athletics and
Speaker 9: Utah Football social media channels. And I talked to every
Speaker 9: coach on the Utah football coaching staff so I did
Speaker 9: those a couple of weeks ago, and they were just
Speaker 9: great insights on the guys but also on football and
Speaker 9: what their expectations were for the season. That kind of
Speaker 9: got me excited a month ago, But now that we're
Speaker 9: a week away and thirty eight days from that game
Speaker 9: at UCLA, and I think I always get a little
Speaker 9: more excited too when you know you've got a good opener.
Speaker 9: I don't know how good UCLA is, but they're going
Speaker 9: to be better than a one double a opponent, and
Speaker 9: going back to the Rose Bowl brings back great memories
Speaker 9: regular season, postseason, So probably a little bit more excitement
Speaker 9: just based on the expectation for the year and where
Speaker 9: that opener is and the opponent that that we're going
Speaker 9: to see in the opener.
Speaker 1: Which of the coaches were in the podcast series? Which
Speaker 1: episode drops today today?
Speaker 9: Is the first? And I believe it's Morgan Scaley. So
Speaker 9: I let it off with the longtime defensive coordinator for Carnity,
Speaker 9: brother of yours.
Speaker 2: Indeed in Hawk No Bill, Come On, Get It Right.
Speaker 5: And in Hope, and.
Speaker 9: Had a really good conversation with Morgan and just kind
Speaker 9: of talked a lot about, you know, last season, and
Speaker 9: this season and what he's expecting coming back, and you know,
Speaker 9: the excitement around the team and the program. I just
Speaker 9: think that there's you know, we've talked about it, there's
Speaker 9: a real excitement and energy about it. And you know,
Speaker 9: he's got a lot of continuity on the defensive side
Speaker 9: and good coaches. But it was a fun conversation with Morgan.
Speaker 9: So you guys, listeners can go to the you know,
Speaker 9: the different Utah Social, utaih Athletics, Utah Football and you
Speaker 9: know you'll see a snippet in there of the podcast
Speaker 9: and then the full full length there'll be a link
Speaker 9: to it, and they're all about twenty minutes each. But
Speaker 9: it's a good it's a good insight for the different
Speaker 9: coaches and position groups.
Speaker 2: How do you feel like Morgan is handling the And look,
Speaker 2: he's still young, so he's got a lot of coaching
Speaker 2: in front of him. Part of me just wonders if
Speaker 2: he's kind of chomping at the bit to kind of
Speaker 2: put his own stamp on the program as the head coach.
Speaker 2: And obviously Kyle is back.
Speaker 1: Kyle's on a contract and Kyle will coach as long
Speaker 1: as Kyle wants, and he has earned the right to
Speaker 1: walk away when he wants to, and he's earned the
Speaker 1: right to let us know when that time comes. But
Speaker 1: what sort of kind of energetic feel did you get
Speaker 1: from Morgan? How do you think he's kind of handling
Speaker 1: the dynamic?
Speaker 9: Well, I think the dynamics fine, because he's you know,
Speaker 9: this is he's been kind of coaching waiting a couple
Speaker 9: of different times, and this time it's I just think
Speaker 9: he knows the job is his and he didn't talk
Speaker 9: about that. He's not going to talk about that or
Speaker 9: you know, he's just going to talk about the season
Speaker 9: ahead and the team. But you know, you wouldn't be
Speaker 9: human if you weren't thinking about next year or the
Speaker 9: year after, whenever that time happens to be, because then
Speaker 9: it's going to be yours. So yeah, he's never going
Speaker 9: to talk about it publicly just because that isn't how
Speaker 9: he is, because it's not his till it's his. But
Speaker 9: I would guess in his mind, and you know Morgan,
Speaker 9: he's very meticulous, very analytic. He's he's probably begun at
Speaker 9: least in his head, planning for whenever that day happens
Speaker 9: to come.
Speaker 1: What are from your viewpoint the similarities between Kyle and Morgan,
Speaker 1: and what are the differences, Because there are times where
Speaker 1: I'll be listening to Morgan oppressor or interviewing him or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm like many sounds a lot like Kyle, and then
Speaker 1: knowing Morgan for as long as I have, I know
Speaker 1: that he very much is his own man. What do
Speaker 1: you perceive to be the similarities and the differences between
Speaker 1: the two coaches?
Speaker 9: Well, I think from the well, I think the personalities
Speaker 9: from a football standpoint are very similar.
Speaker 5: I mean, why wouldn't they be.
Speaker 9: Morgan played for Kyle, Morgan played in this defense. Morgan
Speaker 9: has spent his entire coaching career working with Kyle Whittingham.
Speaker 9: So the mindset, the philosophy. I'm not saying that Morgan doesn't.
Speaker 9: He kind of does his own thing. It's not in lockstep,
Speaker 9: but they think very similarly with how they want to
Speaker 9: run a defense and things like that. I think their
Speaker 9: personalities are different where Kyle is you know, Kyle's a
Speaker 9: little bit more laid back and he's a little bit
Speaker 9: more dry with his humor. Morgan, you know, Morgan, Morgan
Speaker 9: can be you know, in the right situation, he can
Speaker 9: be very very playful, kind of goofy, practical joker. Sometimes
Speaker 9: you hear people tell stories about practical jokes. He polls
Speaker 9: with with other coaches inside the building. So I think
Speaker 9: from a football mindset they're very, very similar. Their personalities
Speaker 9: are probably a little bit different, though I.
Speaker 1: Want to ask you about actually one more question about
Speaker 1: the defense, because as you referenced, a lot of continuity,
Speaker 1: a lot of returning starters. One of my favorite conversations
Speaker 1: in Dallas was with Lander Lander Barton. We were lucky
Speaker 1: enough that Paul Kirk didn't know we had him out already,
Speaker 1: so Paul brought him over and we had like another
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five minutes, which was great, And unlike you,
Speaker 1: he wasn't ripped from us when we were interviewing him.
Speaker 2: Mister, I have a handler now.
Speaker 1: But anyway, if I forced you to give me a
Speaker 1: question mark you have defensively, whether it's a position group
Speaker 1: or an individual player, even though it feels like that
Speaker 1: side of the ball is always fine, what would you
Speaker 1: say to that?
Speaker 2: Bill?
Speaker 9: Oh, I don't think. I think there's a little bit
Speaker 9: of a question with the edge rushing, because really the
Speaker 9: only guy with any and it's not a super long
Speaker 9: resume because of the injury is Logan Fano. The other
Speaker 9: guys are really talented, but they don't have a lot
Speaker 9: of experience or reps under their belt. Now, say what
Speaker 9: you will about that, Utah tends to find and develop
Speaker 9: defensive lineman very very well. But the linebackers, I mean,
Speaker 9: from Lander to Levanni de Mooney to John o'hall to
Speaker 9: a guy like Trey Reynolds, the linebackers are fine. Secondary
Speaker 9: safeties corners. I think there's a little bit of a
Speaker 9: question mark at the opposite corner from from Scooby Davis
Speaker 9: because they've got a couple of transfers. That'll be a
Speaker 9: little bit of a battle in fall camp. But for me,
Speaker 9: I'm just curious to see, you know, who emerges as
Speaker 9: a real pass rush threat. And if Fano is back
Speaker 9: one hundred percent, can he kind of reclaim that form
Speaker 9: of a couple of years ago He kind of turned
Speaker 9: it on a little bit at the end of the year,
Speaker 9: kind of like Lander Barton did coming off that injury
Speaker 9: in twenty three. But that would be the question at
Speaker 9: least that I think, you know, you've got to see
Speaker 9: some game action to know when that will happen, so
Speaker 9: that that would be my by one question about the defense.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the health issues over the past
Speaker 1: few years. I think it was last season, maybe season
Speaker 1: before last, but coach Witt was very front facing and
Speaker 1: salient about the points he was making as far as
Speaker 1: how they went about camp to try and curtail that.
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can, honestly, in a sport
Speaker 1: like this. I just think you have to ride the wave.
Speaker 1: And every team at every school has these weird seasons
Speaker 1: that they're pretty much derailed by injuries. But as far
Speaker 1: as the approach of the team in camp before kickoff,
Speaker 1: any information enlighten us as far as trying to keep
Speaker 1: these guys healthy as long as you possibly can, even
Speaker 1: though they're playing a violent game.
Speaker 9: Yeah, like you said, Spence, you can. You can only
Speaker 9: curtail it so much. Now fall camps, whether it's the
Speaker 9: NFL or college are way different than they were ten
Speaker 9: years ago, twenty thirty years that. You know, you don't
Speaker 9: have two a day practices anymore.
Speaker 5: You don't.
Speaker 9: The NFL doesn't do them that way either. To make
Speaker 9: the most of your time. Kyle has talked about using
Speaker 9: kind of an NFL model for his training camps this year,
Speaker 9: where you know, you have the first week of ramp
Speaker 9: up and acclamation, which you're required to do by rule.
Speaker 9: But he's taking a little bit of an NFL approach
Speaker 9: where some days are shells, some days are full contact,
Speaker 9: some days our pads and what they call thud, but
Speaker 9: not full contact. So but you're right, I mean, you're
Speaker 9: going to limit it as much as you can, because,
Speaker 9: especially now with the college football season, if you're having
Speaker 9: a good season, you're not playing twelve games, you're not
Speaker 9: playing thirteen games. You might be playing fourteen, fifteen or
Speaker 9: sixteen games, which is pretty darn close to an NFL season. Now,
Speaker 9: the good news is you've got two by weeks or
Speaker 9: in carry you'll have in that neighborhood. So but I
Speaker 9: think the approach is now be very meticulous and very
Speaker 9: intentional with the days that you have where you go hard,
Speaker 9: but otherwise save these guys' bodies because the season is,
Speaker 9: as you said, long and tough and physical and violent.
Speaker 9: So I think you're seeing, you know, the old days
Speaker 9: of going off into the desert and doing two and
Speaker 9: three days and really pushing these guys that way. These
Speaker 9: guys come in in such great shape. Now you don't
Speaker 9: have to condition them anymore because they're already in conditioning,
Speaker 9: in shape. You know, you're worried about the long term
Speaker 9: now and not the physicality. But Utah is still going
Speaker 9: to run a physical camp. So it's not they're not
Speaker 9: going to shy completely away from it, but it's it's
Speaker 9: certainly been dialed back from where it was probably even
Speaker 9: five years ago.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about another coach, because Kyle Big
Speaker 1: twelve Media Days was asked about you know, every time
Speaker 1: you pull up a Utah football preview or you listen
Speaker 1: to a podcast where somebody's talking you tough football, the
Speaker 1: first thing they talked about is the old line, of course,
Speaker 1: with Spencer Fano and Caleb Lomu potential well for Spencer,
Speaker 1: according to Dan brugl Or, a top five prospect in
Speaker 1: pro football, Caleb a first round and then a bunch
Speaker 1: of experience around them, and Kyle dig twelve Media Day
Speaker 1: said Jim Harden is the best offensive line coach in
Speaker 1: the country. I don't know Jim well, I've interviewed him
Speaker 1: once or twice, but obviously this man is a master
Speaker 1: of his craft and probably should receive more attention than
Speaker 1: he does. What sort of information do you have about
Speaker 1: Jim as a person as a coach.
Speaker 2: What makes him so good at what he does well.
Speaker 9: He doesn't like a lot of attention, so he's not
Speaker 9: one of these guys that loves to go out and
Speaker 9: do interviews. We had a great when the Harding podcast
Speaker 9: comes around. It's really good. He's got a great personality.
Speaker 9: Here's what I know. He connects with his player Spence
Speaker 9: and the offensive lineman love him. The guys that have
Speaker 9: played for him going back now he's entering is this
Speaker 9: is weird. But this is his twelfth season at Utah
Speaker 9: and he came with Dave Christiansen when Christiensen came from
Speaker 9: Wyoming and he stayed. And I think he's had some
Speaker 9: other opportunities to go, but I think he likes working
Speaker 9: in this program and he's got a great track record.
Speaker 9: I think his secret sauce is one. He was a
Speaker 9: very good offensive lineman himself. He was an All MAC
Speaker 9: player at Toledo back in the day. But he's he's
Speaker 9: a guy that really connects with his kids. And he's
Speaker 9: also got a good assistant. He's got a good staff
Speaker 9: with him. Isaac Asciana for a second time is back
Speaker 9: on this offensive line.
Speaker 2: Coaching staff.
Speaker 9: So I think it's the fact that he knows that
Speaker 9: position inside now because he played it. But I think
Speaker 9: his ability to develop and connect with these kids really
Speaker 9: has them dialed in. If you look at it, you know,
Speaker 9: Utah has had some turnover, like all schools do, lots
Speaker 9: of positions over the last couple of years with the
Speaker 9: advent of the portal. The one place you really haven't
Speaker 9: seen Utah have any turnover has been on the offensive line,
Speaker 9: and they've got some really dear deep So there are
Speaker 9: some guys that could potentially go elsewhere, but they've stayed.
Speaker 9: And I think a lot of that has to do
Speaker 9: with the relationship with Jim Harvin, and.
Speaker 2: It is such a key to what we could see
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: And one of the other things Kyle said when he
Speaker 1: sat down with Sean and I and he wasn't disparaging anybody,
Speaker 1: but he asked him about Devon because of course everyone's
Speaker 1: curious about the quarterback. And he said during his film study,
Speaker 1: he basically noticed that Devin was making plays happened last
Speaker 1: year by himself. I think he called them a one
Speaker 1: man band with not a ton of playmakers around him.
Speaker 1: Some decent running backs and wideouts and such, but an
Speaker 1: offensive line that was not on par with what Utah has,
Speaker 1: and there aren't many lines in the country that are
Speaker 1: on par with what Utah has. How do you think
Speaker 1: that dynamic can potentially unlock Devin as he is taking
Speaker 1: an undeniable step up in competition week in and week out.
Speaker 9: Well, I think his athleticism translates. But to that point,
Speaker 9: he was kind of a one man band last year.
Speaker 9: He didn't have great offensive line play. He made a
Speaker 9: lot of plays on his own with his legs and
Speaker 9: his arms, you know, outside of what they call, you know,
Speaker 9: the pocket and outside of the out of the rhythm
Speaker 9: of the play. I don't think he's going to have
Speaker 9: to do that as much this year. I think because
Speaker 9: of that offensive line and because of some of the
Speaker 9: stuff that he's got around him, that will be better
Speaker 9: than what he had at New Mexico. And factor in,
Speaker 9: it's his second year in this offense, and he's with
Speaker 9: his coordinator again, and he's got a running back that
Speaker 9: he's familiar with and a wide receiver in Ryan Davis
Speaker 9: he's familiar with. I think that's going to help him
Speaker 9: a great deal. Spence, I don't think he's going to
Speaker 9: feel like he has to be Superman on every play,
Speaker 9: and you know, in fact, I think you all. I
Speaker 9: asked Jason Beck this when one of our conversations this offseason,
Speaker 9: I said, do you have to kind of coach that
Speaker 9: mentality out of Devon? He's like no, because he's a
Speaker 9: super high IQ guy. Devin has got a really good
Speaker 9: read on what the situation and what the room is.
Speaker 9: He did it a year ago. He also made plays
Speaker 9: with his teammates, but he knows what he has and
Speaker 9: what he doesn't have. And that's one of the things
Speaker 9: they like a lot about Devin Dampier is his malleability
Speaker 9: and his ability to adjust to his kind of surrounding environment.
Speaker 9: And I think the stuff that's going to surround him,
Speaker 9: especially in front of him this year, is going to
Speaker 9: be really really.
Speaker 1: Good, interesting dynamic. Let me follow up because I'm always
Speaker 1: fascinated with this. It's the conversation we had about Cameron, like,
Speaker 1: is there any way coach lud can teach him to
Speaker 1: get down? You don't need to run into that gatorade cooler, Palell,
Speaker 1: we need you under center. And I felt like when
Speaker 1: Taysom Hill was by 's QB prior to every season
Speaker 1: we'd have the same conversation like he he's so electric,
Speaker 1: he's so dynamic, but it's so dangerous and he's so important.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to that line with Devin, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you fans with our PTSD, every time he breaks
Speaker 1: the pocket and takes a hit, he's going to be like, dude,
Speaker 1: get down, we need Like how do you balance that
Speaker 1: bill like letting a player be who he is but
Speaker 1: also ingrain in him. You are too important to take
Speaker 1: crazy risks every play.
Speaker 9: It's funny. I asked Jason Beck about that too. He's
Speaker 9: not as big as Cam Rising was. He's about six
Speaker 9: one two oh five two ten. Cam was six two
Speaker 9: two twenty five. And you mentioned Taysom Hill. Taysom's a
Speaker 9: big dude. Heck, he played tight end for a while
Speaker 9: as well as court. Devn's not that big, And Jason said,
Speaker 9: the one thing Devin is really smart about doing is
Speaker 9: getting at a bounds. If you watch a lot of
Speaker 9: the plays that he made in the spring, but also
Speaker 9: last year at New Mexico, he'd pick up seven, eight, nine,
Speaker 9: ten yards and then he'd popped himself out of bounds.
Speaker 9: You know, he knew what he had and then he
Speaker 9: got down or he got out of bounds. So his
Speaker 9: mentality is not quite the same as a Taysom or
Speaker 9: even a Cam who had that mentality of I'm going
Speaker 9: to take that safety or take that line back or on.
Speaker 9: So I you know, you're not going to ever get
Speaker 9: that running ability because that's part of his secret sauce.
Speaker 9: That's one of his superpowers is running the football, but
Speaker 9: he runs it in a different way. Cam Rising was
Speaker 9: a quarterback running the football. Taysom Hill was, gosh, a
Speaker 9: gigantic athlete running the football. You know, Devin Dan appears
Speaker 9: a smaller guy, and I think he's got the instinct
Speaker 9: to know that, you know, seven yards is a great play.
Speaker 9: Let's get out of bounds or get data. Live to
Speaker 9: play another day.
Speaker 1: We had Chase Hanson in studio this week for about
Speaker 1: forty five minutes.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: He is a very thoughtful, intelligent, nuanced young man who
Speaker 1: has a bunch of different interests outside of football now
Speaker 1: that he's retired that he's kind of pursuing. And I
Speaker 1: asked him about the anatomy of a position switch. Chase
Speaker 1: was an incredible quarterback in high school. Was pretty blunt
Speaker 1: about his desire to play the position and stubborn in
Speaker 1: a way, and ultimately conversations with coach Witt and coach Scally,
Speaker 1: and also Chase's desire to get on the field because
Speaker 1: he was behind a couple of different quarterbacks led him
Speaker 1: to becoming an All Conference linebacker. And I don't have
Speaker 1: built data that puts Utah's decision making process next to
Speaker 1: other coaching staffs. Like to compare Utah coach with Morgan
Speaker 1: that staff and their ability to see athletes and then
Speaker 1: identify different positions for them to play. It feels like
Speaker 1: they're elite at it. I don't have data to measure
Speaker 1: them against other programs. But when it comes to that
Speaker 1: sort of dynamic, and you know Nate Orchard wide receiver
Speaker 1: Highland High School, elite past past Rusher, the Krueger's, we
Speaker 1: could keep going.
Speaker 2: What goes into that?
Speaker 1: And why do you think Utahs staff seems to be
Speaker 1: so elite at that dynamic?
Speaker 5: That's a good question.
Speaker 9: I've asked Kyle that before and they have always been
Speaker 9: really good. And it goes back to Kyle. Kyle's a
Speaker 9: common theme here, but guys like Scally and Shaw and
Speaker 9: others when they recruit these guys, they go out looking
Speaker 9: a lot of times at athletes and what you are,
Speaker 9: and once they like your athleticism, you know, like Devin
Speaker 9: Lloyd was a perfect example. Devin Lloyd was a wide
Speaker 9: receiver and a safety in a punter, but they saw that,
Speaker 9: you know what, They're very good at projecting and seeing
Speaker 9: potential growth, and they just liked him and they said,
Speaker 9: we'll figure out who you are when we get you here.
Speaker 9: And then when they get you here, you know, they
Speaker 9: put you in with everybody else. Now. You know, we
Speaker 9: always joke that if you're an elite athlete and there's
Speaker 9: any question whatsoever, Kyle's going to move you to the
Speaker 9: defensive side of the football. And that's been the case,
Speaker 9: but then in recent years we've seen him kind of
Speaker 9: go the other way with that. Sioni Vaki was one
Speaker 9: of those guys. Now some of that was out of
Speaker 9: necessity a few years ago, but he was just too
Speaker 9: good an athlete not to use him everywhere. And I
Speaker 9: think that's why they're talking about guys like Smith, Snowden
Speaker 9: and Lander Barton playing some roles on offense this year.
Speaker 9: I mean, Kyle said that himself done ad been called
Speaker 9: Media Day I don't know how big a role that
Speaker 9: will be, but I think when you have elite athleticism,
Speaker 9: you want to go out and you utilize those guys.
Speaker 9: That also helps you back when you go back on
Speaker 9: the recruiting trail, because you know when you're when you're
Speaker 9: recruiting guys, all these guys think that they can be
Speaker 9: two way players or they want to play this spot
Speaker 9: in maybe this spot. Well, if you have a little
Speaker 9: bit of proof, Hey, we did this with Ceony Vaki,
Speaker 9: he's now in the NFL. We did this with Smith's
Speaker 9: note in lander Barton that then it's easier to maybe
Speaker 9: sell a kate on coming and then once you get
Speaker 9: them here, they can realize whether they fit both ways
Speaker 9: or one way or not. But back to the very
Speaker 9: very beginning of it, it's just that ability and having
Speaker 9: the track record of doing it. Remember Paul Krueger. Paul
Speaker 9: Krueger came here, and you know, I think Paul might
Speaker 9: have been a quarterback in high school, and then I
Speaker 9: think he was a tight end and then I think
Speaker 9: they moved into defensive end and he had like an
Speaker 9: eight or nine year NFL career. So it's it's it's
Speaker 9: just one of those things. You know, very successful coaches,
Speaker 9: they all have something that they do very very well,
Speaker 9: and I think developing talent but also identifying athletics and
Speaker 9: talent has been one of the great secret sauces for
Speaker 9: Kyle and his staff.
Speaker 1: All Right, else, before I say you loose, back to
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks real quick. How's the room shaping up behind Devin?
Speaker 1: Is it Isaac's job? I've heard a lot of people
Speaker 1: talk about the Bird Fickland.
Speaker 2: Kid quite a bit.
Speaker 1: We all want Devin to stay healthy, but we all
Speaker 1: again ptsd about the starting quarterback not being able to
Speaker 1: stay on the field. So behind Devin, how's that room
Speaker 1: shaping up? Before I set you loose?
Speaker 9: Well, I think that you know, going into fall camp,
Speaker 9: I think Kyle said even coming out of spring, Bird
Speaker 9: Ficklin had a really good spring. But the one bit
Speaker 9: of difference is it wasn't great time. Obviously, Isaac struggled
Speaker 9: last year, but he was a true freshman and was
Speaker 9: thrown into a really tough situation. But he started nine
Speaker 9: games last year. I think it was nine games, maybe
Speaker 9: it was eight games. But that so that give to
Speaker 9: me in my mind, that gives him an advantage over
Speaker 9: Bird Ficklin, who's an eighteen year old true freshman. Now
Speaker 9: that being it's gonna be one of the interesting battles
Speaker 9: to watch in fall camp because bird Fickland had a
Speaker 9: really good spring. If he follows that really good spring
Speaker 9: up with a good fall camp, it will be interesting
Speaker 9: to see what they do. But I would say, even
Speaker 9: while it's close, I think Isaac just based on the
Speaker 9: experience and his age, you know, not that much older,
Speaker 9: but still older by a year and a half in
Speaker 9: Bird Fickland, that he's probably got a little bit of
Speaker 9: an advantage. But I think it's going to be a
Speaker 9: really interesting battle to watch, you know, because you know
Speaker 9: Dan Piers are starting quarterback, but how do they divvy
Speaker 9: those reps up and who has a good fall camp
Speaker 9: behind Devin, Because as you said, and as Utah fans know,
Speaker 9: it's hard. It's been hard in recent years to get
Speaker 9: a quarterback to play twelve or thirteen games. So the
Speaker 9: backup quarterback better be ready to go just in case.
Speaker 1: Roles, you're the man, appreciate the time. On Wednesday, I
Speaker 1: have a great rest of the week. Happy pioneer, Dave
Speaker 1: Bud We'll chat soon.
Speaker 9: Thanks man, talk to you soon.
Speaker 2: All right, Bill Riley, Voice of the Youth.
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Speaker 2: Wow, we've got in the radio friendly version.
Speaker 1: Porter or well John Great Bump for our next guest,
Speaker 1: because he's known for a lot things, but in my
Speaker 1: mind he'll always be the little white dude that went
Speaker 1: to West Hide that could actually spit Bars Reespec Associate Professor.
Speaker 1: He's joined the show before the City University of New
Speaker 1: York local legend. But again, Rache'll always be the little
Speaker 1: MC that blew me away when I watched.
Speaker 2: His spit back in the day. How are you, man?
Speaker 7: Oh, I'm good.
Speaker 12: It's so funny you say that. Not a lot of
Speaker 12: people know that background.
Speaker 2: No, I'm telling you because I have this.
Speaker 1: I still have this running bit with my friends that
Speaker 1: went to West to think they're thugs and gangsters.
Speaker 2: I'm like, stop it.
Speaker 1: You grew up in Federal Heights, Matt Harvey, calm down, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. And so when I got the invite, like,
Speaker 1: no o, our buddies from West actually rap, We're gonna
Speaker 1: go listen, I was ready to bury you. I was
Speaker 1: because you know, my East Coast kid, I love hip
Speaker 1: hop like you. I'm like, there's no way this is
Speaker 1: any good. And then you it was Brendan right was
Speaker 1: Kla Kwame? Blown away and bummed that you.
Speaker 2: Actually you guys actually stopped if I'm honest.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, look, I was a huge fan of
Speaker 12: hip hop, student of hip hop. You love something so
Speaker 12: much you want to do it eventually, and that's just
Speaker 12: kind of natural. But you know, in retrospect, being this
Speaker 12: forty four year old white guy, it's kind of cringe
Speaker 12: to look back at it.
Speaker 7: It wasn't you know?
Speaker 2: You guys were good.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Do you ever ever do you ever crack of mic
Speaker 2: anymore at all? No, just to speak in front of people.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: I do my.
Speaker 12: Bars in writing op eds. Now, That's where I get
Speaker 12: my bars out.
Speaker 1: Now, Okay, well, you're very good at this too, because
Speaker 1: you have a very fascinating mind. You've joined the show
Speaker 1: on multiple occasions. You have your father and studio, huge fan.
Speaker 1: I love having Pops here, but we're not gonna let
Speaker 1: him on the mic, you've told me. But it's great
Speaker 1: to have him here. Yeah, So I'll let you kind
Speaker 1: of unpack what you've been working on lately as far
Speaker 1: as the Fox populism stuff, and we're gonna talk Trump
Speaker 1: UFC and you're the guy for this, and you know
Speaker 1: this is a sports talk radio show.
Speaker 2: There are sports angles.
Speaker 1: But I'm fascinated at the work that you've done because
Speaker 1: I have these ideas in my mind about you know,
Speaker 1: bias media for profit news, how it's adversely affecting our
Speaker 1: society and how it co opts the minds of people
Speaker 1: that some should know better and some just don't have
Speaker 1: the inelect to handle it. But unpack kind of the
Speaker 1: work that you've been doing over the past few years,
Speaker 1: then we'll kind of get into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 12: So my first book, Fox Populism, was really about the
Speaker 12: moment in two thousand and eight and two thousand and
Speaker 12: nine with the financial crash, the rise of Obama, and
Speaker 12: in that media landscape, it was really cable news was
Speaker 12: the center of it, right, it was driving the narratives.
Speaker 12: But by the time we get to the Trump era,
Speaker 12: we get to twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, the media
Speaker 12: landscape had shifted radically and people started cutting the cable
Speaker 12: cord and going to alternative media in online video, namely YouTube,
Speaker 12: which is kind of really you can look at YouTube
Speaker 12: as the scaffolding of the Internet, video, audio, scaffolding of
Speaker 12: the Internet.
Speaker 7: It's everything, right, and that's.
Speaker 12: When you really saw that old legacy media lose its
Speaker 12: grip on where the culture was, where politics was. And
Speaker 12: one thing that Trump did very wisely was reach out
Speaker 12: to the alternative media space with Alex Jones.
Speaker 7: He did an interview in December twenty fifteen.
Speaker 12: Everyone mocked him because this guy's a conspiracy theorist, he
Speaker 12: has no credibility. But they were not They were overestimating
Speaker 12: the influence of the legacy media, and they were not
Speaker 12: aware of the rising power of podcasting, of online video.
Speaker 7: And Trump really tapped into that.
Speaker 12: And now fast forward a decade, you know, to the
Speaker 12: twenty twenty four election. He really wielded that sector with
Speaker 12: the pot bro podcasting sphere to great effect, and he
Speaker 12: won over you know, in this country, we're still polarized.
Speaker 12: There's only we're like a forty five forty five country
Speaker 12: Republican Democrat. So the name of the game, if you're
Speaker 12: going to win, it's very small slice of independence and
Speaker 12: people that are not into politics.
Speaker 7: And that was young men. And he didn't.
Speaker 12: I mean, the story of that election was not political
Speaker 12: the traditional political news or even podcasts focus on politics.
Speaker 3: It was a.
Speaker 12: Political media the nilk moys, YouTube pranksters, twitch streamers, Aiden
Speaker 12: rossc podcasts, the Undertaker's Part podcast ww and so it's ironic,
Speaker 12: let me get some feedback here.
Speaker 2: While we're getting feedback, should we switch mic?
Speaker 1: So you think we're okay, Okay, we'll come switch the
Speaker 1: mic out, but keep okay, So that's a little distracting.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the irony here.
Speaker 12: The interesting thing about twenty twenty four is that some
Speaker 12: of the most potent messengers for Trump were a political media.
Speaker 12: So like wrap your head around that, the political power
Speaker 12: of a political media. And this brings us to sports.
Speaker 12: You know, I'm interested in you know, media that is
Speaker 12: attracts people that are not into politics. They're they're not
Speaker 12: high you know, propensity voters, they're not all obsessed with politics.
Speaker 7: Away.
Speaker 12: A lot of lefties are hyper educated people are, but
Speaker 12: there's a problem there, as you mentioned, where in that
Speaker 12: way they have their guard down, right, and so people
Speaker 12: can go on there and do puff piece conversations and
Speaker 12: never get questioned the way a traditional journalist would challenge Trump.
Speaker 12: He would just hang out with him and talk about,
Speaker 12: you know, when he was a baseball player, you know,
Speaker 12: and how Baron's gonna kill it in the dating scene
Speaker 12: in New York City, you know. So there's benefits in
Speaker 12: this long form format, informal kind of style, but there's
Speaker 12: dangers to it as well when politicians start leveraging it
Speaker 12: and manipulating it.
Speaker 1: Porter, let's get you in here to switch out these
Speaker 1: mics so we can avoid the feedback. Respec is our guest,
Speaker 1: live in studio, local legend, Associate professor at the City
Speaker 1: of New York, author of Fox Populism. We'll get into
Speaker 1: because one of the things, in addition to the manisphere
Speaker 1: as it's called, do you know Scott Galloway is Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I listened to a lot of Scott stuff. I
Speaker 1: listened to his Pivot pod, I listened to his prof
Speaker 1: g pod, and he has been on this thing now
Speaker 1: for about a decade. That the loneliness that young men
Speaker 1: suffer has led them to become very vulnerable to again,
Speaker 1: I'll use the term have their thoughts co opted by
Speaker 1: bad actors, the andrew Tates of the world right, who
Speaker 1: represent a a A A front facing type of masculinity
Speaker 1: I think is very damaging, quite frankly.
Speaker 2: But if you're a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen.
Speaker 1: Year old guy that you know you're skinny, you want
Speaker 1: to gain weight, you don't have friends in high school,
Speaker 1: the girls don't look at you. And you see this
Speaker 1: six' four jack dude who's throwing one hundred dollars bills
Speaker 1: all over his hotel room with five different women and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be, Like, okay what's that all? About the
Speaker 1: problem is that does lead to again bad actors DID
Speaker 1: i think have horrible intentions that are just trying to
Speaker 1: monetize the loneliness of. Men And galloway talks about this
Speaker 1: all the. Time so how intentional was this approach From
Speaker 1: trump to do The rogan, thing do The manisphere pod,
Speaker 1: thing The Theo vonne, Thing and what would you say
Speaker 1: about WHAT i perceived to be the tone deaf approach
Speaker 1: to the left to not even acknowledge that it was a.
Speaker 1: Thing they didn't even try to get on these, platforms
Speaker 1: AND i think it really cost.
Speaker 7: Them, yeah the loneliness.
Speaker 12: THING i think there's This african proverb where it, says
Speaker 12: if you don't incorporate the young men into the, tribe
Speaker 12: they'll come back and burn the whole tribe.
Speaker 2: Down. Right so if you.
Speaker 12: Allow, them if you don't speak to, them and you
Speaker 12: don't try to get them to kind of adopt what
Speaker 12: we would see as healthy standards of masculinity social behavior
Speaker 12: instead of asocial behavior or anti social, behavior someone else
Speaker 12: is going to fill that. Vacuum someone else is going
Speaker 12: to speak to them if you're not speaking to. Them
Speaker 12: and SO i, think you, know the left had this
Speaker 12: moment in the twenty tens with The Me too, movement
Speaker 12: with The Woman's, march where there was a rightful acknowledgment
Speaker 12: of you, know sexual predators And hollywood and politics and,
Speaker 12: industry and they were right to focus on. That BUT
Speaker 12: i think you can chew bubblegum and walk at the same.
Speaker 12: Time you can focus on sexual, harassment you, know gender,
Speaker 12: inequalities but you have.
Speaker 7: To also still speak to young.
Speaker 12: Men and the funny thing is is the person that
Speaker 12: was speaking to young men Was Bernie. Sanders and guess
Speaker 12: who Had Bernie sanders on his? Podcast Joe rogan and
Speaker 12: guess who said he was A Bernie sanders.
Speaker 7: Fan Joe, Rogan and what did he?
Speaker 12: Do they bashed him severely right right, now they're, complaining
Speaker 12: you know about or talking about the left needs the.
Speaker 9: Are On Joe.
Speaker 7: Rogan, well the left had there On Joe. Rogan it
Speaker 7: Was Joe.
Speaker 12: Rogan, yeah, right and you guys stigmatized, him bashed in
Speaker 12: because he's got muscles and he likes, fighting and there's
Speaker 12: some elements of his embodied identity that look like a
Speaker 12: meathead or a, jock and then you demonize.
Speaker 7: That you, know they Slurred Bernie sanders supporters As bernie.
Speaker 12: BROS i, remember like that was the. Slur SO i,
Speaker 12: MEAN i guess that's my. Problem it's, like you, know
Speaker 12: you can critique element toxic, masculinity elements of, masculinity or
Speaker 12: people Like Andrew, tate, right, sure, right but you have
Speaker 12: to provide an. Alternative and that's what what's the NAME
Speaker 12: nyu professor that.
Speaker 7: You Like, galley that's what he's arguing.
Speaker 12: For you have to be a, proactive assertive definition for.
Speaker 12: Them you can't just say this is. Bad don't be Like,
Speaker 12: trump don't be Like Andrew. Tate you have to give
Speaker 12: them something and uh substitute for.
Speaker 5: That.
Speaker 12: Right, SO i mean that's the WAY i kind of
Speaker 12: look at that the bro podcasting. SPHERE i think in
Speaker 12: terms of the, strategy it was brilliant because they did the.
Speaker 7: Math they, go who are the movable.
Speaker 12: Voters they're not middle aged, People they're they're not these
Speaker 12: voters in the. SUBURBS i, mean The Kamala harris campaign
Speaker 12: had this fanciful idea they're going to Turn republicans Into, democrats,
Speaker 12: right and they always go for, that, Fools Go Chuck
Speaker 12: schumer for every you, know working class. Vote we lose In,
Speaker 12: Philly we'll make up in the. Suburbs right With republicans failed,
Speaker 12: completely got More republican, votes not less. Right and what
Speaker 12: they could have focused on was these weak, partisans people
Speaker 12: that are, independence people that are not really Into they
Speaker 12: don't live in politics every, day and they tend to
Speaker 12: not have college, degrees and they tend to like alternative,
Speaker 12: media a political. Media and that's What trump's zeroed in
Speaker 12: on completely like a. Laser they went on all these
Speaker 12: a political media shows and, lifestyle, fitness, golfing, influencers you name,
Speaker 12: it and one over that.
Speaker 7: Demographic it was.
Speaker 12: Insane the swing from twenty eighteen thirty two point. Swing
Speaker 12: democrats used to have an advantage with young men and
Speaker 12: they were comparable to young.
Speaker 7: Women they were both progressive.
Speaker 12: Constituents fast forward less than ten years, later he wins
Speaker 12: them by nineteen, points like titanic. Shift, yeah, right and
Speaker 12: how could you not see that media strategy was a
Speaker 12: huge part of that.
Speaker 1: Swing it was really fascinating to watch the momentum. SHIFT
Speaker 1: i think When trump left The White house after his first,
Speaker 1: term everybody Including republicans were, like all, right we made
Speaker 1: it through, that and that's never happening. Again and then
Speaker 1: WHAT i perceived to be again so many tone deaf
Speaker 1: approaches from the, left and you know, what, MAN i
Speaker 1: know this isn't going to be. POPULAR i just don't
Speaker 1: think people like identity. Politics, well some people, do BUT
Speaker 1: i think the majority of the country has spoken like
Speaker 1: because you reference some of the criticisms that the left
Speaker 1: would levy on toxic, masculinity and you articulated it perfectly
Speaker 1: about some of the things that are valid and should
Speaker 1: always be, spoken to speak truth to power and make
Speaker 1: sure that certain people are no longer a part of our.
Speaker 1: Society like there was a Culture hollywood elsewhere that.
Speaker 2: Needed to be vetted and needed to be.
Speaker 1: Removed but there was kind of like this over correction
Speaker 1: from the left in response to the rise of The
Speaker 1: Trump maga, party and then suddenly everything was about identity,
Speaker 1: politics and everything was about skin, color and everything was about.
Speaker 1: Misogyny and people like me that do this for a
Speaker 1: living are approaching a microphone every. Day it's, LIKE i
Speaker 1: HOPE i don't say the one wrong thing to piss
Speaker 1: off the left to come call from my job people
Speaker 1: don't want to live that. Way so it was like
Speaker 1: this combination of an intelligent approach From trump and his
Speaker 1: people to capitalize on this ecosystem and an extremely tone
Speaker 1: deaf approach from the left that to me basically laid
Speaker 1: out the red carpet to Put trump back in The White.
Speaker 2: House.
Speaker 12: YEAH i think that the issue with the left is
Speaker 12: that they're anchored to the college educated and that's the
Speaker 12: culture that their whole movement is built. Around at the
Speaker 12: center of and hyper educated people that are like me
Speaker 12: in the, media, journalists tech, people. Lawyers they obsess about
Speaker 12: language because that's what they. Do they're language. Manipulators they're
Speaker 12: always obsessed with languge and what they assume is that
Speaker 12: everyone else is obsessed with, language and they put as
Speaker 12: much stock in that as they, do and they don't.
Speaker 12: Work can class people see things more, Contextual they give
Speaker 12: people more good faith, interpretations, right they'd see it as,
Speaker 12: like what are your? Intentions and so it really rubs
Speaker 12: a lot of people the wrong, way including people of.
Speaker 12: COLOR i Mean trump Won hispanic, men he won more black, men,
Speaker 12: Right it's not just white guys that are alienated by
Speaker 12: this hyper, educated politically correct, culture and it does the.
Speaker 7: Opposite it's, like if you're.
Speaker 12: About anti racism and you believe in that cause you,
Speaker 12: know you can't come across as an elitist that condescends to, people.
Speaker 7: Right, Yes it'd be.
Speaker 12: One thing if the person telling me that is in
Speaker 12: a labor movement and they're a union guy and they're,
Speaker 12: saying you can't be racist to our brothers and, sisters
Speaker 12: we need to unite so we can get better wages
Speaker 12: and things like. That but when it's coming from hyper,
Speaker 12: educated kind of egghead, people you've turned anti racism into
Speaker 12: a badge of your. Elitism you've turned critiquing sexism as
Speaker 12: something that comes across to a lot of people is intellectual.
Speaker 12: Condescension AND i think that's a huge. PART i think
Speaker 12: those issues, matter but it's like how you do. It
Speaker 12: Like Jesse jackson was An African american politician The Rainbow,
Speaker 12: coalition but that was a working class campaign when he,
Speaker 12: ran and he talked about issues of race and, gender
Speaker 12: but it didn't come across as. Elitist it came across as,
Speaker 12: populous Right, So AND i think That democrats have learned
Speaker 12: in the wake of yet Another trump, defeat is that
Speaker 12: you can see them toning it, down and they're focusing
Speaker 12: more on bread and butter issues that the issue of.
Speaker 7: Affordability it's more.
Speaker 12: Of economic populism message That bernie innovated in twenty. SIXTEEN
Speaker 12: i think they've kind of learned their lesson on at
Speaker 12: least thinking about that tone and obsessing about those divisions
Speaker 12: and a particularly there's a way to talk about it
Speaker 12: that doesn't reek of college campus culture one hundred.
Speaker 1: Percent and, LOOK i am well aware that a lot
Speaker 1: of these narratives have been pushed into mainstream society by
Speaker 1: WHAT i perceive the right wing politics in a way
Speaker 1: that is a little bit. Irresponsible anyone really believe that
Speaker 1: men should be able to play against women in? Sport
Speaker 1: like does anyone really believe that a man should be
Speaker 1: able to get into A ufc.
Speaker 2: Ring with a woman the same? Way no one really believes.
Speaker 1: That but one or two instances of trans people playing
Speaker 1: sports in women's ecosystem suddenly turns into this is a
Speaker 1: pandemic that is coming for your kids at school when
Speaker 1: you drop them, Off and it's Not any decent person knows.
Speaker 2: That but when the left gives the right.
Speaker 1: Any sort of bait or any small excuse to even
Speaker 1: create one little narrative about one or two Instances Steve
Speaker 1: bannon talks about this muddy the, waters confuse the, people
Speaker 1: flood the, zone and then suddenly most people are, like
Speaker 1: you know, What i'm JUST i just want to go.
Speaker 2: HOME i don't care about this. Anymore SO i just
Speaker 2: think that was a massive.
Speaker 1: Misstep and, yes there are so many bad actors and
Speaker 1: so many lies propagated and furthered by the, right BUT
Speaker 1: i just feel like the left delivers them on a
Speaker 1: plate because the issues that they lean into over and
Speaker 1: over and over don't rest.
Speaker 2: With enough people to get them. ELECTED i, mean is
Speaker 2: that fair to?
Speaker 12: Say the majority of this country are non college, educated working, class,
Speaker 12: Right so you're not going to win in democracy when
Speaker 12: you're only catering to a small segment of hyper.
Speaker 7: Educated the middle class.
Speaker 2: People.
Speaker 12: PERIOD i don't know where they The, democrats how they
Speaker 12: haven't got that. Memo but yet they just keep making
Speaker 12: the same mistake over and over again on who their
Speaker 12: media targets and pills, to who their political campaigns appealed.
Speaker 12: To it's a what they mistake a narrow group for
Speaker 12: a much larger, group and that's where they keep losing,
Speaker 12: right you know you but it's also there's there's part
Speaker 12: of it is. Corruption part of it is both parties
Speaker 12: are bought and paid for by special interests and, corporations you.
Speaker 12: Know you, Know Kamala harris had in the beginning of
Speaker 12: her campaign a more of an economic populist message to
Speaker 12: go after corporations for price, gouging and then someone chirped
Speaker 12: in her ear and she backed away from. That and
Speaker 12: it's like that's when she had her highest approval, rating
Speaker 12: When Tim wolls was saying, that and they backed away from,
Speaker 12: it and they started doing this millie mouth milk toast
Speaker 12: no confrontation with corporate.
Speaker 7: Power and then.
Speaker 12: So in the lieu of, that young men, say who's
Speaker 12: the anti war, Candidate who's the anti corporate power? Candidate
Speaker 12: it seems like the right is they're the ones that
Speaker 12: seem like they're going to do something to take on
Speaker 12: the elite and the.
Speaker 2: Powerful, yeah.
Speaker 12: Right and so as long as the, donors i Mean
Speaker 12: democrats keep getting that same donor, money you, know it's
Speaker 12: hard for them to truly be, populous like in a sincere.
Speaker 2: Way yeah, yeah, well well said you.
Speaker 1: Know the other interesting angle that The trump administration took
Speaker 1: is leaning into and this is similar to the manisphere
Speaker 1: of podcast The BROPODS ufc. Football you, Know trump really
Speaker 1: does use And Shane gellis Hosted The SP's it was.
Speaker 1: Hilarious he doesn't know anything about, Football he doesn't know
Speaker 1: anything about. Sports he doesn't know anything about, anything if
Speaker 1: we want to get down to it outside of, media media,
Speaker 1: manipulation and obviously a master at selling his, message whether
Speaker 1: it's true or, not people into.
Speaker 2: It so it is what it.
Speaker 1: Is BUT i played in a golf tournament last week
Speaker 1: and it was A utah alumni golf tournament and it
Speaker 1: was for the fraternity house raised a bunch of money
Speaker 1: and there were fraternity students flown in from all around
Speaker 1: the country based off of their philanthropic.
Speaker 2: Efforts they'd raised a bunch of.
Speaker 1: Money so we HAD usc, kids we Had arizona, kids
Speaker 1: we Had utah. Kids trump pats, everywhere college, Kids trump
Speaker 1: pats everywhere you turn on A ufc, event you Know
Speaker 1: trump is. There oftentimes he's talking about A ufc event
Speaker 1: at The White. House and you, know football is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different cultural approach than basketball, Is
Speaker 1: like THE nba is a very different kind of cultural
Speaker 1: Approaches trump is now, claiming AND i think a lot
Speaker 1: of this is muddy in the waters and distracting from
Speaker 1: some things that are going on with him right now
Speaker 1: that aren't a great look that will probably not talk
Speaker 1: about on this. Show but he's talking about blocking The
Speaker 1: washington football team stadium deal unless they go back to
Speaker 1: the Name. Redskins they're not going to do, that and
Speaker 1: nor does he give a rip about.
Speaker 2: It we know what he's doing if you pay.
Speaker 1: Attention but what do you make about that angle that he's,
Speaker 1: taken the sports, angle THE ufc, bros the football people
Speaker 1: that clearly have his back as far as voting.
Speaker 12: GOES i, mean WHEN i knew The democrats were. Cooked
Speaker 12: the MOMENT i knew they were, cooked it was In
Speaker 12: september of twenty twenty. FOUR i was skating In San
Speaker 12: diego with my two, boys like we, do AND i
Speaker 12: saw This latino punk style teenager with a metal spike
Speaker 12: belt with The maga hat bouncing as he was on a.
Speaker 2: Skateboard and he's, like if.
Speaker 12: They got this, kid you, know The democrats are. Cooked
Speaker 12: so it's a similar, thing all these young men with
Speaker 12: mag hats.
Speaker 7: On you.
Speaker 12: KNOW i Think trump is very. Much he has a
Speaker 12: skill Of Pet, barnum, right the old circus. Promoter he
Speaker 12: doesn't get you to change what you, think but he
Speaker 12: dominates what everyone's talking, about, yes, right and that's its own, superpower.
Speaker 12: Right and so you, know and there's moments in political
Speaker 12: history where culture plays like a special.
Speaker 5: Role.
Speaker 12: Right so we came of age in The bush era
Speaker 12: in country. Music it wasn't. Sports it was country music
Speaker 12: that helped drive everyone to support that, invasion, Right Toby
Speaker 12: keith will put a boot up your.
Speaker 2: Ass you're, good.
Speaker 12: You, Know BUT i really think since twenty, sixteen sports
Speaker 12: has has been not, music but sports has been that
Speaker 12: a political sector that's had so much political.
Speaker 7: Power you.
Speaker 12: Know, uh the Segregationist alabama Governor George, wallace he used
Speaker 12: to plan his political rallies based on radio country music
Speaker 12: radio station demographic, data and he knew that he could
Speaker 12: turn this music fandom into a political. Constituency trump relies
Speaker 12: that with THE, ufc he basically took something that was
Speaker 12: a political that was you, know very much adored by
Speaker 12: young men of all, ethnicities, right and he has masterfully
Speaker 12: turned it into like a militant base of his political.
Speaker 12: Army you, know having that relationship With Dana, white and
Speaker 12: we can talk about talk about, that which neatly also
Speaker 12: folds Into rogan and The rogan. Verse so it's Like Dana,
Speaker 12: white these these three, connections you, Know AND i think
Speaker 12: THAT ufc has, been at least in the last couple of,
Speaker 12: years at the center of our culture in terms of
Speaker 12: like the political zeitgeist and what's driving. It and all
Speaker 12: the fighters are hardcore magas. Sport you, know they win their,
Speaker 12: Championship John jones, wins it Gives trump the. BELT i,
Speaker 12: mean all of them shaking his. Hand they have a
Speaker 12: camera that zero's in On trump every time that there's
Speaker 12: a decision or conclusion of a.
Speaker 7: Fight i've never seen anything like.
Speaker 12: IT i would ask any political presidential historian show me
Speaker 12: another president that has used sports in a way this,
Speaker 12: intimately in this systematically Than trump has used THE. UFC i,
Speaker 12: mean how many events has he attended pre and post?
Speaker 12: ELECTION i mean it's like every single, event it's. Both
Speaker 12: and you, Know Bill burr made a joke about. This he's,
Speaker 12: LIKE i came to watch the fight and THIS i find.
Speaker 12: Out i'm in THE rnc. Convention and it's ironic that
Speaker 12: in the twenty. Sixteen it Was republicans that were complaining
Speaker 12: about sports and. Politics it Was, Kaepernick it was The
Speaker 12: Black Lives matter and THE nba And lebron and all.
Speaker 12: That you, know the versus the mirror image of that has,
Speaker 12: happened and they've alienated a lot of Like democrats or
Speaker 12: independents because it is so it's so explicitly used as
Speaker 12: a political vehicle For trump at this point THE.
Speaker 1: Ufc, yeah, yeah and to his, CREDIT i, mean masterfully
Speaker 1: is the right way to put, it because that's how
Speaker 1: he's gone about. It you reference earlier a lot of
Speaker 1: people cutting the cord right and watching YouTube videos or
Speaker 1: listening to. PODCASTS i don't know what the numbers, are
Speaker 1: but obviously some interesting news recently As trump is Suing
Speaker 1: Rupert murdoch just steeped in irony here as the guy
Speaker 1: who wrote the book Now Rupert murdoch of Course Fox,
Speaker 1: news but Also Wall Street. Journal this man has literally
Speaker 1: been kicked out of other countries for his black, magic
Speaker 1: which he is enacting on us with no. Repercussions Rupert
Speaker 1: murdoch feels like a big whale For trump to take. On, now,
Speaker 1: Obviously trump is the most powerful man in the world
Speaker 1: being the president of the. Country BUT i thought about
Speaker 1: you WHEN i saw that. Story what do you make
Speaker 1: Of trump going After Rupert.
Speaker 12: Murdoch it's so, ironic you, KNOW i, Mean Rupert murdoch
Speaker 12: kickstarted this combination of political populism and tabloid journalism in his,
Speaker 12: country And trump embodies That fox's brand was this, tabloid
Speaker 12: populous partisan. Brand and Then trump really comes along and
Speaker 12: is like no one's ever embodied that brand more Than.
Speaker 12: Trump but, ironically you, Know murdoch didn't Want trump in
Speaker 12: THE i mean the twenty Fifteen republican primary roder. Ails
Speaker 12: THE ceo didn't Want. Trump they were so used to being.
Speaker 12: Kingmakers fox dominated The republican. Party you, know there was
Speaker 12: this there was some activists or political operativests that we
Speaker 12: used to Think Fox news worked for, us and now
Speaker 12: we realize that we worked For Fox, news like you
Speaker 12: had to be a contributor or.
Speaker 7: Whatever And trump had a feud with.
Speaker 12: Them he boycotted one of The Fox news, debates which
Speaker 12: would be unheard of for any other republic Average. Republican
Speaker 12: but he wielded both his existing celebrity and this alternative media,
Speaker 12: relationship and that was the first cracks in that old
Speaker 12: media system that should have that should have been a
Speaker 12: signal to a lot of people That murdoch and this
Speaker 12: old legacy media don't have the power that they used.
Speaker 12: To and that Was, breitbart that Was, bannon that Was Alex.
Speaker 12: Jones uh and then you, know now you fast forward
Speaker 12: today these old cable news. OUTLETS i, Mean fox is still,
Speaker 12: Profitable fox.
Speaker 7: Is still number.
Speaker 12: ONE i would never Write fox's. Tombstone people do it
Speaker 12: prematurely all the, time, never never Underestimate.
Speaker 7: Fox but they are seeing.
Speaker 12: The riding on the wall that cable cable's influence is,
Speaker 12: declining even the Mighty Fox. News and the fact That
Speaker 12: trump will go to war with the most, powerful powerful
Speaker 12: conservative media baron in the world tells you something about
Speaker 12: like but then, Again trump's just so confident in. Cocky,
Speaker 12: sure who, knows but BUT i don't think he you,
Speaker 12: know it's very. Interesting but and also to See Fox
Speaker 12: news Back trump because they're so, scared because that is
Speaker 12: so much linked to their, audience where The Wall Street
Speaker 12: journal is more, highbrow more you, know there could be
Speaker 12: Never trumpers at Like Wall Street. Journal and so The
Speaker 12: murdoch empires really, complicated, Right you have The New York,
Speaker 12: posts tabloid, paper you Have Fox, news you have prestige
Speaker 12: brands like you, know The Wall Street.
Speaker 7: Journal so who.
Speaker 12: Knows it's Like King kong going Against, GUERRILLA i Mean
Speaker 12: King kong going Against. Godzilla, yeah you, know it would
Speaker 12: be really interesting to see how it plays. OUT i
Speaker 12: think it's a hollow. Threat he's not gonna win the.
Speaker 12: LAWSUIT i don't Think murdock will back down the WAY cbs.
Speaker 2: Did, no it's.
Speaker 1: Disgraceful he doesn't scare. Easily, no and he's gonna be dead.
Speaker 1: Soon so you, know you'll go down.
Speaker 2: Fighting.
Speaker 7: YEAH i don't.
Speaker 12: Know we'll, see but you, KNOW cbs back, DOWN abc back.
Speaker 12: Down and he's scared those, companies you, know threatened to
Speaker 12: not allow, mergers and he's using the government as a
Speaker 12: cudgel to kind of dictate media trends and instill a
Speaker 12: chilling effect so people, sensor self censor and.
Speaker 7: Stuff so that's very worrying to.
Speaker 1: Me politics, MAN i don't know who said it once
Speaker 1: upon a, time BUT i always go back to, It
Speaker 1: hollywood for ugly. People, yeah you, know politics, Man hollywood for.
Speaker 7: Ugly Roger, STONE i Think Roger stone SAID i love.
Speaker 2: It it's just perfect because it's all. Performative they're all, acting
Speaker 2: and it's both sides of the. Aisle but one more
Speaker 2: thing reason BEFORE i set you.
Speaker 1: Loose you recently went over to THE uk to speak
Speaker 1: to some people over there as a result of the
Speaker 1: work that you've. Done how is our current political climate perceived?
Speaker 1: Abroad what's your experience like when you go speak in other.
Speaker 12: Countries SO i gave a talk that was sponsored by
Speaker 12: THE Us embassy at The university Of Southern, denmark and
Speaker 12: it was a crowd of All danish, people and it
Speaker 12: was about, entertainment the entertainment quality Of american, politics exactly
Speaker 12: what you just kind of.
Speaker 2: Reference AND i.
Speaker 12: Showed, them to the horror of a lot of the
Speaker 12: diplomats that Are american in an audience Of danish, people
Speaker 12: a clip Of Donald trump Clotheslining vince, McMahon, right and you,
Speaker 12: know and you, Know trump was a full blown character
Speaker 12: in THE wwe like he was part of that. Universe
Speaker 12: and their eyes were just wide, open like The european
Speaker 12: mind can't wrap their head around like a lot of
Speaker 12: elements Of american. Politics and now that's different than THE
Speaker 12: uk because Again murdoch had his imprint, there right with
Speaker 12: the Tabloid The, sun The news of The. WORLD i,
Speaker 12: mean he DOMINATES uk politics with the same kind of
Speaker 12: sensational tabloids partisan. Style so for them it's not as
Speaker 12: big of a culture shock as it is for kind
Speaker 12: of Northern. Europeans but there's still they still shake their.
Speaker 12: Head they still don't, understand you know how you know
Speaker 12: we could have this reality show person kind of dominate
Speaker 12: our politics for the last ten.
Speaker 2: YEARS i mean the.
Speaker 7: History books will showed this has been The trump.
Speaker 12: Era this is has he has defined politics for the
Speaker 12: last ten, years and so you, KNOW i think that
Speaker 12: they don't quite. Understand, also they have a stronger public
Speaker 12: broadcasting culture, there so that kind of conditions and limits.
Speaker 7: How tabloid it can. Get, yeah where we've always just
Speaker 7: been crass.
Speaker 12: Commercial our media system has always been for, profit always been,
Speaker 12: advertising so we don't have that backstop to maybe greater
Speaker 12: standards would be less. Entertainmentized this especially happened With reagan
Speaker 12: when he deregulated the communications And clinton followed. Through was
Speaker 12: a bipartisan thing and it just became off the races
Speaker 12: just about getting eyeballs and, listeners and it's all profit and,
Speaker 12: ratings and there's no commitment to you, know like the
Speaker 12: public interests or civic education because we don't have a
Speaker 12: strong public broadcasting sector in THE.
Speaker 2: Us where do you get your? NEWS i, mean you're.
Speaker 1: One i've always respected your ability to call out THE
Speaker 1: bs on both. Sides AND i just don't watch cable.
Speaker 1: News it's not on in my. House and that's all of.
Speaker 1: Them it's not Just fox AND, cnn IT'S. Msnbc i'll
Speaker 1: mix in a LITTLE bbc at, Times but where.
Speaker 2: Do you get your? News you?
Speaker 12: Know SO i get like just for like the quick
Speaker 12: like rundown of the news events of the. Day you,
Speaker 12: Know i'll go TO, mpr AND i know conservatives look
Speaker 12: AT mpr is super you, know leftists and, liberal but
Speaker 12: it's generally it has its. Bias, obviously all news has a, bias,
Speaker 12: Right no news is areology. Free but the show THAT
Speaker 12: i really like Is Breaking, points which is a YouTube
Speaker 12: show where you have a conservative And sagar And jetty
Speaker 12: and then you have A bernie kind of left person
Speaker 12: And Crystal. Ball and WHAT i like about that show
Speaker 12: is they're both not cheerleaders for their partisan. Camps they
Speaker 12: challenge the leftists will challenge The Democratic, party and then
Speaker 12: the right wing host will challenge A Republican, party and
Speaker 12: in the middle of that discussion you get something that
Speaker 12: approximates a sincere analysis of what's true and what's, objective you,
Speaker 12: know WHERE i think the cable model is just we'll
Speaker 12: cheerlead for The, democrats we'll cheerlead for The Republican. Party
Speaker 12: and SO i THINK i highly Recommend Breaking. Points there's
Speaker 12: a couple of these shows That i'd like to think
Speaker 12: of them as. Transpartisan they kind of have a left
Speaker 12: populace and a right populace and neither one is just
Speaker 12: cheerleading in like a hackneyed way that we've become accustomed
Speaker 12: to in this partisan media landscape we've suffered through for
Speaker 12: the last two.
Speaker 2: Decades, yeah, man all, right where can people go get your?
Speaker 12: Work so my latest piece was with The hill on THE,
Speaker 12: ufc and it is what is?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 7: Trump THE ufc in The New Cultural war is the
Speaker 7: title of that.
Speaker 12: One if you want a more academic, ANALYSIS i have
Speaker 12: a brand new piece Called More Than money And, Algorithms
Speaker 12: the cultural roots Of trump's al media, strategy and that's In, Communication,
Speaker 12: culture And, critique