Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: Hi, welcome back, Gary Tangline for Dan here this evening.
Speaker 2: The Dark Side of AI is our next topic. Scott
Speaker 2: Barredeal joins us to discuss this in anytime, and I
Speaker 2: know I Scott off the top of the show. First
Speaker 2: of all, welcome to the program. Off the top of
Speaker 2: the show, I said, I'm the biggest hypocrite because we're
Speaker 2: so dependent on AI. You do it now, if you
Speaker 2: talk into your phone, you have, you have spell check,
Speaker 2: just so many ways we're dependent on it. But I
Speaker 2: love to root against it, you know, So I'm a hypocrite.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't want AI. I mean, I was
Speaker 2: taking jobs. It's taking humanity out of things. I can
Speaker 2: write things that can you know, thanks for itself. It's
Speaker 2: going to take over the world. But boy, man, if
Speaker 2: you took away my phone and all these things, I'd
Speaker 2: be screwed. So this is an interesting situation here. First
Speaker 2: of all, I should ask you where do you fall
Speaker 2: as far as being pro or anti AI before we
Speaker 2: get into this situation.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a good question. It's kind of like
Speaker 3: how I am about phones. It's like I hate that everybody,
Speaker 3: including myself, are on their phones all the time. But
Speaker 3: I don't know what I'd do without it, you know,
Speaker 3: you know, it's like that we it's it's great, it's
Speaker 3: a great tool. It makes things more efficient, but it
Speaker 3: does take some humanity out of out of things, out
Speaker 3: of your life, and it starts to affect how you
Speaker 3: view the work of others. Is this is this real
Speaker 3: or is it mem recks? Did they actually do this
Speaker 3: or do they just have it bat out by chat GPT?
Speaker 1: Well, we've seen that in commercials.
Speaker 2: I can't remember which god which product it's for, but
Speaker 2: there's an actor. For some reason, I think the actor
Speaker 2: is the guy that played Booger and Risky Business. I
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe I could be wrong about that, but
Speaker 2: he sits there and he goes and he and he
Speaker 2: starts to type a memo, but then then he goes
Speaker 2: into chat whatever you just called it.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that chat.
Speaker 2: Bob, either chat BT or whatever GPT, Yeah, chat GPT,
Speaker 2: and it totally changes the tone of it. It makes
Speaker 2: them sound brilliant. And then they pan over to the
Speaker 2: boss and the boss goes, wait a minute, did you
Speaker 2: write this? I think that sucks. I think that's see
Speaker 2: that's the part I think that sucks. And I know
Speaker 2: everybody does it. You know, it's it saves time and
Speaker 2: so forth. But that's just kids don't have to write,
Speaker 2: and I think that sucks. That's the part I don't like,
Speaker 2: you know, but it's hair to start.
Speaker 3: Well. Yeah, And but the other thing is, you know,
Speaker 3: the thing about chat GPT and these tools is is
Speaker 3: they they won't tell you they're wrong. And you know,
Speaker 3: there's a recent study done by Purdue University that found
Speaker 3: that about over fifty fifty two percent to be exact,
Speaker 3: if chat GPT answers have at least one error in them.
Speaker 3: That's a little scary.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, that's very scary.
Speaker 3: It would be better if if if they were person accurate.
Speaker 3: You know, there was actually an attorney to win to
Speaker 3: a courtroom in Colorado and talked about all these cases
Speaker 3: to make his tell his side of the court case.
Speaker 3: And it turned out that the cases were completely made
Speaker 3: up by chat GPT. They were not real cases that
Speaker 3: had happened, and so the guy was fired from his
Speaker 3: law firm and he was suspended from the bar in Colorado.
Speaker 3: So you know, you don't take it at face value.
Speaker 3: You better check check the facts.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean that that Wow.
Speaker 2: I mean I hate for somebody to lose their job,
Speaker 2: but come on, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The reason we had you on there was an article.
Speaker 2: It's a story about a young woman and she was
Speaker 2: using AI to help her with some homework. The chat
Speaker 2: by Gemini, Google's Gemini and with the chat bat chat bot.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, this language is forn of me. Uh said
Speaker 2: to her at the end was human please die right?
Speaker 2: And she had a I mean, it's it's funny, but
Speaker 2: it's scary. She had a friend with her in the room.
Speaker 2: But I mean, how did it's certainly it could happen.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course it could happen. There's a glitch,
Speaker 2: there's something that goes wrong there. How often does this happen?
Speaker 3: Well, there's been glitchens, you know from you know, just
Speaker 3: in this case. I'll give you the full quote because
Speaker 3: it's even more impressive. There was a long if you've
Speaker 3: ever used or no, folks can use these tools, and
Speaker 3: most people are using him today. You might ask a
Speaker 3: lot of questions to try to get the exact output
Speaker 3: you want. And and it's like in this and you
Speaker 3: can see the full chat on on online that's been
Speaker 3: It's been safe that this grad student had with Gemini,
Speaker 3: And the final it's like Jimi is getting more more frustrated,
Speaker 3: almost like it's a person, and finally says, this is
Speaker 3: for you human. You are not special, you are not important,
Speaker 3: you are not needed. You are staying on the universe.
Speaker 3: Please die, good God. So at that point they completely
Speaker 3: this person is completely freaked out. It's about asking questions.
Speaker 3: So maybe maybe Jim and I had just had enough.
Speaker 3: But that's not the first time it's happened. You know,
Speaker 3: a few years ago, Microsoft had a chat bot they
Speaker 3: created for teams called Tay that was almost immediately decommissioned
Speaker 3: because it was making racist or marks it was saying.
Speaker 3: It was saying things like Hitler was right. Horrible, just
Speaker 3: unimaginedly horrible things. Chat GPT had itself, which is of
Speaker 3: course the most popular large language model currently. Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: they had a malfunction where people were actually seeing the
Speaker 3: questions that other users that they didn't know were asking,
Speaker 3: so complete violation of confidential a horrible privacy bug. So meta,
Speaker 3: you know, Facebook, you know they had something called blenderbot
Speaker 3: and when people were asking it questions about whether it's
Speaker 3: Trump elections or Kennedy assassination or whatever. It was totally
Speaker 3: you know, saying all totally got into all these conspiracy
Speaker 3: theories and saying, yes, the conspiracy theories are the facts.
Speaker 3: And so it's just across the board. There just has
Speaker 3: to be an understanding that these tools are very much
Speaker 3: still in development and you just can't take them as gospel.
Speaker 3: They trick you into making you think they can do anything,
Speaker 3: but they can't. I work with a company called acquire BPO,
Speaker 3: which is a business process outsourcing company that does call
Speaker 3: centers and helps companies with all kinds of other work
Speaker 3: around the world using people, but of course introducing AI
Speaker 3: as part of what they do, as all companies are
Speaker 3: increasingly doing. But we did a survey recently acquire BPO
Speaker 3: where they found that seventy percent of Americans said that
Speaker 3: if they had one bad experience with AI, they would
Speaker 3: consider switching to another brand, to another company. So it
Speaker 3: has a major commercial implications. If you're not watching this
Speaker 3: stuff really closely.
Speaker 1: Has it ever cost someone in their life?
Speaker 3: Wow? Good question. I can't take an example of that
Speaker 3: off HANDA I mean what I immediately think of is sky
Speaker 3: net became self aware at two fourteen am Eastern timee
Speaker 3: That's that's the line from the original Terminator where they
Speaker 3: where it was all about an AI defense system that
Speaker 3: became self aware and they decided to since they were
Speaker 3: in charge of the weapons, to nuke all the humans,
Speaker 3: and that's where the Terminator came from.
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know a real life example, but.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what comes to mind from me, is
Speaker 2: when you see situations like this where you're talking about
Speaker 2: you know, verbiage. Okay, so it's okay, so the computer
Speaker 2: insulted somebody, all right, fine, But when you talk about
Speaker 2: depending on AI, maybe in life threatening situations, when it
Speaker 2: comes to dealing with ambulatory services, when it comes to
Speaker 2: dealing with firefighting, when it comes to dealing with work,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing where I'm concerned. And I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about something catastrophic like war games or where
Speaker 2: they launch you know, one hundred missiles or you know,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about in a situation where you may have
Speaker 2: a public servant, firefighter, police officer, a medical person that
Speaker 2: is in a situation, depending on information where they need
Speaker 2: to try to go into a fire or they're going
Speaker 2: into a violent situation and the information is wrong because
Speaker 2: it doesn't come from a person.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean I think it is a legitimate concern.
Speaker 3: I definitely think that you you know things, There are
Speaker 3: improvements happening every day, like, for example, in these tools increasingly,
Speaker 3: as opposed to just putting information out there that may
Speaker 3: or may not be true, there are links to the
Speaker 3: original sources and things like that to verify. I would say,
Speaker 3: you know, for companies, particularly for situations like you're describing,
Speaker 3: but I would say for companies and in general, taking
Speaker 3: a more conservative approach where you're not asking the AI
Speaker 3: to do too much, where you're making the tasks a
Speaker 3: little simpler and so you can be sure you know
Speaker 3: it's directing you to information that you know is true,
Speaker 3: as opposed to you're asking it to solve the world's
Speaker 3: problems or you're you're asking it to really what it does.
Speaker 3: It's it's just an advanced form of memorization. And they
Speaker 3: memorize and they and they put answers to different questions
Speaker 3: together essentially, and they provide they're kind of program to
Speaker 3: always give you an answer and if you're program to
Speaker 3: always give an answer. It's not always going to be right,
Speaker 3: so you can set it to not do that. You know,
Speaker 3: you don't have to set up your AI to go
Speaker 3: that far.
Speaker 2: And it's also based on something that's previously happened, correct,
Speaker 2: So when you have a situation that is new and
Speaker 2: the computer can't refer back to anything, you're screwed. More
Speaker 2: on a coming up AI coming up next, The Good
Speaker 2: side of AI. We like to be fair and bound here,
Speaker 2: you know, we try to do our best. That's coming
Speaker 2: up next on WBZ with Scott Barredelt.
Speaker 1: Don't go away.
Speaker 2: Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World,
Speaker 2: Nice Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. Welcome back, Gary
Speaker 2: Tangling for Dan Ray tonight. Scott Barredeal joining us here
Speaker 2: talking about well, we were ripping on AI and I
Speaker 2: do want to get to the positive end of things.
Speaker 2: But when do you think, Scott, it'll be so cost
Speaker 2: prohibited or maybe we've seen examples of it where a
Speaker 2: company says, all right, we're losing so much business.
Speaker 1: This AI isn't working. I need to get a real
Speaker 1: person back in here.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's for companies that kind of kind
Speaker 3: of go too far, too fast. I think there definitely
Speaker 3: been some examples of companies that have maybe dived in
Speaker 3: a little too fast, went too far, and then they
Speaker 3: had to pull back. You know, I mentioned this survey
Speaker 3: by a choir bpo, which if you want to see
Speaker 3: the full survey, it's at at acchoirbpo dot com. But
Speaker 3: what the data shows people are most confident in a
Speaker 3: situation where there's a blend of human support and AI support.
Speaker 3: They like that AI support can make things go faster,
Speaker 3: so like you don't want to be on hold for
Speaker 3: thirty minutes before you get to talk to someone, things
Speaker 3: like that. So there are a lot of things that
Speaker 3: AI can do. And if they know, hey, if I'm
Speaker 3: not getting what I need from, AII can escalate to
Speaker 3: a person. I can use AI to help me identify
Speaker 3: and consolidate kind of the past customer service experience I've had,
Speaker 3: for example, but then I don't then I can talk
Speaker 3: to a person to solve the problem I'm having right now.
Speaker 3: You talked about, you know, AI knows the past but
Speaker 3: can't predict the future. That's where it's a good idea
Speaker 3: to have that blend. Companies that have made the mistake
Speaker 3: kind of like this lawyer made of thinking, Oh, I
Speaker 3: can just AI looks like it knows what it's talking about,
Speaker 3: so I can just assume it does. Just remember it's
Speaker 3: wrong fifty two percent of the time, or something is
Speaker 3: wrong in answer and you have to check it. It's
Speaker 3: kind of like in the early days of Wikipedia. Really
Speaker 3: it's still true today, but people would say, hey, don't
Speaker 3: Wikipedia is not, you know, gospel. You can don't do
Speaker 3: your research paper and just say I got it out
Speaker 3: of Wikipedia. You have to. It can guide you, but
Speaker 3: go find the original sources.
Speaker 2: Well, even when I do research for the show, when
Speaker 2: we talk politics or we do something of a serious
Speaker 2: nature where you want to get your facts straight, I
Speaker 2: will online. I'll start reading different things in n'lb like
Speaker 2: three quarters of the way and I go, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: this is bull crap. Where did this come from? This
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. You know, you can't.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 2: You have to vet it. You got to vet stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I called my bank the other day.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to mention the bank. I call my
Speaker 2: bank the other day. And you know, when you go
Speaker 2: through you punch all the buttons and for this and
Speaker 2: for this, But I had a certain situation. I had
Speaker 2: a certain question regarding as regarding an account, and I
Speaker 2: got a person because I like to talk to people,
Speaker 2: and then that person had to send me to a supervisor,
Speaker 2: and that supervisor didn't know the answer, they had to
Speaker 2: send me to a manager above the supervisor. Where your
Speaker 2: point is well taken is if the first person had
Speaker 2: the AI to give them the answer, then they could have.
Speaker 1: Just simply told me and I would have been.
Speaker 3: Satisfied right right for how you yeah exactly?
Speaker 2: You know, because yeah, because the answer was the answer.
Speaker 2: It wasn't hard. They just had to get to somebody
Speaker 2: who actually had the information. I was on hold for
Speaker 2: an hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like when you go to the doctor's office
Speaker 3: and you have to fill out the clipboard every single time.
Speaker 3: It's like, are you saving any of this information from
Speaker 3: one visit to the next. Yeah. So there's definitely some
Speaker 3: advantages to automation, which of course has been around forever,
Speaker 3: and AI that is kind of taking that to the
Speaker 3: next level.
Speaker 1: What about the positive end of it.
Speaker 3: Well, there's a tremendous amount of a positive if you
Speaker 3: know how to use it. In other words, you can
Speaker 3: be far more productive. I can tell you that you know.
Speaker 3: Part of what I work at at a PR and
Speaker 3: marketing firm and we do search engine operstation things like that.
Speaker 3: I can tell you more and more people are doing
Speaker 3: their searches through a chat CPT or GYM night rather
Speaker 3: than going to the traditional Google search, because Google will
Speaker 3: send you to a page somewhere and maybe it's an optimize,
Speaker 3: but maybe it's not the best answer to your question.
Speaker 3: And in the case of these, searching for what you're
Speaker 3: looking for and doing your research through a tool like
Speaker 3: a chat CPT, and again increasingly they're including their source
Speaker 3: links and things to make it more so you can
Speaker 3: check that it's it's accurate. It's a much more effective
Speaker 3: way of gathering information, and it's increasingly becoming. It's predicted
Speaker 3: before too long it's going to be the number one
Speaker 3: people the way people search for the information that they're
Speaker 3: looking for online. So it's inevitable that it's going to
Speaker 3: keep getting better. It's it's it's amazing how far it's
Speaker 3: come and how many people are using it in the
Speaker 3: short amount of time it's been around, have been widely available,
Speaker 3: So you've got to assume that at the rate at
Speaker 3: which it's improving and progressing. A lot of these things
Speaker 3: that have caused the problems are going to go away.
Speaker 1: What about in the medical world.
Speaker 3: Well, in the medical world, obviously you have to operate
Speaker 3: with caution, you know, I would say medical as well
Speaker 3: as kind of highly regulated industries like finance. For example,
Speaker 3: there was a big case with the think Bank of
Speaker 3: America where uh Ai was chatbot was giving given people
Speaker 3: uh incorrect information about mortgage loans and kind of important
Speaker 3: financial transactions. In the medical world, obviously even more important
Speaker 3: to to be careful becused. You're talking about life and
Speaker 3: death stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's when I think about situations like that,
Speaker 2: And the reason I asked the question is if you
Speaker 2: need to so you have a task, either in the
Speaker 2: medical world or the financial world, and you need one
Speaker 2: hundred percent activity to complete that task, I can see
Speaker 2: AI taking you to twenty five percent and then somebody
Speaker 2: else has to take you the rest of the way.
Speaker 1: That's you know, that's what I see.
Speaker 2: I don't see you can't have AI complete one hundred
Speaker 2: percent of that task in those areas.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's a good way to think about it.
Speaker 3: I think the higher risk the task, the more important
Speaker 3: it is to have humans more involved, particularly at this
Speaker 3: stage of the development of AI. But I will tell
Speaker 3: you we actually did a survey a company called Christa,
Speaker 3: which is like they're like a Amazon Alexa conversational AI,
Speaker 3: but they work within companies. They did a survey asking
Speaker 3: people what they trusted AI to do and not do,
Speaker 3: and it just showed you kind of the amail confusion
Speaker 3: out there, like is AI going to help you my
Speaker 3: job or is it going to take away my job?
Speaker 3: But one of the questions ask quite the scenario is like,
Speaker 3: do you trust AI to pick your wardrobe for work?
Speaker 3: Or would you press AI to fly a plane with
Speaker 3: no pilot in it? And more people picked I would
Speaker 3: trust AID to fly a plane but no pilot in
Speaker 3: it than picked my clothes, you know. So I think
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people that are just still it's
Speaker 3: also new that they're all trying to come to terms
Speaker 3: with it and at least to some weird tuxtapositions like that.
Speaker 2: I will leave you with this, I will never ever
Speaker 2: get in a car that drives itself ever. Ever, I've
Speaker 2: heard that, Okay, you can have a driver, you know,
Speaker 2: you can get in the car, you can sit in
Speaker 2: the back seats, you know, and you can work and
Speaker 2: you can you get on your laptop and do work
Speaker 2: and you punch in where you're going to go and
Speaker 2: the car takes you there.
Speaker 1: No way. I don't trust it never. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: You could get carjacked? Also, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't get that. And they've had it,
Speaker 2: They've had tests where people.
Speaker 1: Have been killed.
Speaker 2: Guys get the vaccine, and they have supposedly a driving
Speaker 2: less car. I don't get it. That's the part where
Speaker 2: it's it's insane.
Speaker 3: Like I think I'm going to be old fashioned on
Speaker 3: that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: Even think with being old fashioned. I just think it's
Speaker 2: common sense, you know. It's like, look, technology has helped
Speaker 2: all of us. I get it, you know, and I'm
Speaker 2: open to it. But I mean, look, voice commands on TV.
Speaker 2: When I want to go, like, you know, into my
Speaker 2: TV you know, watch you know, watch the Boston Celtics bowmen,
Speaker 2: it pops up. I love that you can help me
Speaker 2: with that, but I don't need you to drive my
Speaker 2: damn car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'll drive myself too, for the indefinite future.
Speaker 1: All right, scart Baradel. What's the name of a company.
Speaker 3: My company is called Idea bro and the survey is
Speaker 3: by a company called a Choir BPO.
Speaker 2: All right, well, listen, I appreciate you coming on. You
Speaker 2: sound like a reasonable person. You've really come I I
Speaker 2: really have enjoyed this conversation because you've made me feel
Speaker 2: a little more comfortable to be quite honest.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Have a good night and have a
Speaker 1: good thanksgiving.
Speaker 3: All right, you two take care, all right.
Speaker 1: Scott Barreto joining us here and AI the good and
Speaker 1: the bad. Yeah, the AI voices please die? Are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? Good?
Speaker 3: God?
Speaker 2: Coming up next the final hour here on night side,
Speaker 2: this evening. What are you thankful for? And I understand.
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