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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Boston's

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<v Speaker 1>news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, welcome back, Gary Tangline for Dan here this evening.

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<v Speaker 2>The Dark Side of AI is our next topic. Scott

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<v Speaker 2>Barredeal joins us to discuss this in anytime, and I

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<v Speaker 2>know I Scott off the top of the show. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, welcome to the program. Off the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the show, I said, I'm the biggest hypocrite because we're

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<v Speaker 2>so dependent on AI. You do it now, if you

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<v Speaker 2>talk into your phone, you have, you have spell check,

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<v Speaker 2>just so many ways we're dependent on it. But I

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<v Speaker 2>love to root against it, you know, So I'm a hypocrite.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like I don't want AI. I mean, I was

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<v Speaker 2>taking jobs. It's taking humanity out of things. I can

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<v Speaker 2>write things that can you know, thanks for itself. It's

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<v Speaker 2>going to take over the world. But boy, man, if

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<v Speaker 2>you took away my phone and all these things, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>be screwed. So this is an interesting situation here. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, I should ask you where do you fall

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<v Speaker 2>as far as being pro or anti AI before we

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<v Speaker 2>get into this situation.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's a good question. It's kind of like

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<v Speaker 3>how I am about phones. It's like I hate that everybody,

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<v Speaker 3>including myself, are on their phones all the time. But

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know what I'd do without it, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's like that we it's it's great, it's

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<v Speaker 3>a great tool. It makes things more efficient, but it

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<v Speaker 3>does take some humanity out of out of things, out

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<v Speaker 3>of your life, and it starts to affect how you

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<v Speaker 3>view the work of others. Is this is this real

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<v Speaker 3>or is it mem recks? Did they actually do this

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<v Speaker 3>or do they just have it bat out by chat GPT?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we've seen that in commercials.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't remember which god which product it's for, but

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<v Speaker 2>there's an actor. For some reason, I think the actor

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<v Speaker 2>is the guy that played Booger and Risky Business. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, maybe I could be wrong about that, but

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<v Speaker 2>he sits there and he goes and he and he

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<v Speaker 2>starts to type a memo, but then then he goes

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<v Speaker 2>into chat whatever you just called it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what that chat.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob, either chat BT or whatever GPT, Yeah, chat GPT,

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<v Speaker 2>and it totally changes the tone of it. It makes

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<v Speaker 2>them sound brilliant. And then they pan over to the

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<v Speaker 2>boss and the boss goes, wait a minute, did you

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<v Speaker 2>write this? I think that sucks. I think that's see

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<v Speaker 2>that's the part I think that sucks. And I know

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<v Speaker 2>everybody does it. You know, it's it saves time and

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<v Speaker 2>so forth. But that's just kids don't have to write,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that sucks. That's the part I don't like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but it's hair to start.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Yeah, And but the other thing is, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the thing about chat GPT and these tools is is

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<v Speaker 3>they they won't tell you they're wrong. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's a recent study done by Purdue University that found

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<v Speaker 3>that about over fifty fifty two percent to be exact,

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<v Speaker 3>if chat GPT answers have at least one error in them.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a little scary.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, that's very scary.

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<v Speaker 3>It would be better if if if they were person accurate.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, there was actually an attorney to win to

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<v Speaker 3>a courtroom in Colorado and talked about all these cases

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<v Speaker 3>to make his tell his side of the court case.

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<v Speaker 3>And it turned out that the cases were completely made

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<v Speaker 3>up by chat GPT. They were not real cases that

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<v Speaker 3>had happened, and so the guy was fired from his

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<v Speaker 3>law firm and he was suspended from the bar in Colorado.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, you don't take it at face value.

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<v Speaker 3>You better check check the facts.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, I mean that that Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I hate for somebody to lose their job,

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<v Speaker 2>but come on, that's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason we had you on there was an article.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a story about a young woman and she was

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<v Speaker 2>using AI to help her with some homework. The chat

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<v Speaker 2>by Gemini, Google's Gemini and with the chat bat chat bot.

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<v Speaker 2>Excuse me, this language is forn of me. Uh said

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<v Speaker 2>to her at the end was human please die right?

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<v Speaker 2>And she had a I mean, it's it's funny, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's scary. She had a friend with her in the room.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean, how did it's certainly it could happen.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, of course it could happen. There's a glitch,

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<v Speaker 2>there's something that goes wrong there. How often does this happen?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there's been glitchens, you know from you know, just

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<v Speaker 3>in this case. I'll give you the full quote because

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<v Speaker 3>it's even more impressive. There was a long if you've

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<v Speaker 3>ever used or no, folks can use these tools, and

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<v Speaker 3>most people are using him today. You might ask a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of questions to try to get the exact output

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<v Speaker 3>you want. And and it's like in this and you

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<v Speaker 3>can see the full chat on on online that's been

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<v Speaker 3>It's been safe that this grad student had with Gemini,

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<v Speaker 3>And the final it's like Jimi is getting more more frustrated,

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<v Speaker 3>almost like it's a person, and finally says, this is

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<v Speaker 3>for you human. You are not special, you are not important,

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<v Speaker 3>you are not needed. You are staying on the universe.

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<v Speaker 3>Please die, good God. So at that point they completely

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<v Speaker 3>this person is completely freaked out. It's about asking questions.

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<v Speaker 3>So maybe maybe Jim and I had just had enough.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's not the first time it's happened. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>a few years ago, Microsoft had a chat bot they

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<v Speaker 3>created for teams called Tay that was almost immediately decommissioned

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<v Speaker 3>because it was making racist or marks it was saying.

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<v Speaker 3>It was saying things like Hitler was right. Horrible, just

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<v Speaker 3>unimaginedly horrible things. Chat GPT had itself, which is of

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<v Speaker 3>course the most popular large language model currently. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>they had a malfunction where people were actually seeing the

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<v Speaker 3>questions that other users that they didn't know were asking,

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<v Speaker 3>so complete violation of confidential a horrible privacy bug. So meta,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Facebook, you know they had something called blenderbot

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<v Speaker 3>and when people were asking it questions about whether it's

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<v Speaker 3>Trump elections or Kennedy assassination or whatever. It was totally

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<v Speaker 3>you know, saying all totally got into all these conspiracy

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<v Speaker 3>theories and saying, yes, the conspiracy theories are the facts.

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<v Speaker 3>And so it's just across the board. There just has

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<v Speaker 3>to be an understanding that these tools are very much

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<v Speaker 3>still in development and you just can't take them as gospel.

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<v Speaker 3>They trick you into making you think they can do anything,

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<v Speaker 3>but they can't. I work with a company called acquire BPO,

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<v Speaker 3>which is a business process outsourcing company that does call

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<v Speaker 3>centers and helps companies with all kinds of other work

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<v Speaker 3>around the world using people, but of course introducing AI

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<v Speaker 3>as part of what they do, as all companies are

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<v Speaker 3>increasingly doing. But we did a survey recently acquire BPO

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<v Speaker 3>where they found that seventy percent of Americans said that

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<v Speaker 3>if they had one bad experience with AI, they would

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<v Speaker 3>consider switching to another brand, to another company. So it

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<v Speaker 3>has a major commercial implications. If you're not watching this

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<v Speaker 3>stuff really closely.

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<v Speaker 1>Has it ever cost someone in their life?

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<v Speaker 3>Wow? Good question. I can't take an example of that

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<v Speaker 3>off HANDA I mean what I immediately think of is sky

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<v Speaker 3>net became self aware at two fourteen am Eastern timee

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's the line from the original Terminator where they

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<v Speaker 3>where it was all about an AI defense system that

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<v Speaker 3>became self aware and they decided to since they were

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<v Speaker 3>in charge of the weapons, to nuke all the humans,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's where the Terminator came from.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't know a real life example, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is what comes to mind from me, is

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<v Speaker 2>when you see situations like this where you're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>you know, verbiage. Okay, so it's okay, so the computer

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<v Speaker 2>insulted somebody, all right, fine, But when you talk about

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<v Speaker 2>depending on AI, maybe in life threatening situations, when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to dealing with ambulatory services, when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with firefighting, when it comes to dealing with work,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the thing where I'm concerned. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not talking about something catastrophic like war games or where

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<v Speaker 2>they launch you know, one hundred missiles or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about in a situation where you may have

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<v Speaker 2>a public servant, firefighter, police officer, a medical person that

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<v Speaker 2>is in a situation, depending on information where they need

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<v Speaker 2>to try to go into a fire or they're going

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<v Speaker 2>into a violent situation and the information is wrong because

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't come from a person.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I mean I think it is a legitimate concern.

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<v Speaker 3>I definitely think that you you know things, There are

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<v Speaker 3>improvements happening every day, like, for example, in these tools increasingly,

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<v Speaker 3>as opposed to just putting information out there that may

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<v Speaker 3>or may not be true, there are links to the

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<v Speaker 3>original sources and things like that to verify. I would say,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, for companies, particularly for situations like you're describing,

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<v Speaker 3>but I would say for companies and in general, taking

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<v Speaker 3>a more conservative approach where you're not asking the AI

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<v Speaker 3>to do too much, where you're making the tasks a

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<v Speaker 3>little simpler and so you can be sure you know

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<v Speaker 3>it's directing you to information that you know is true,

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<v Speaker 3>as opposed to you're asking it to solve the world's

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<v Speaker 3>problems or you're you're asking it to really what it does.

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<v Speaker 3>It's it's just an advanced form of memorization. And they

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<v Speaker 3>memorize and they and they put answers to different questions

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<v Speaker 3>together essentially, and they provide they're kind of program to

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<v Speaker 3>always give you an answer and if you're program to

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<v Speaker 3>always give an answer. It's not always going to be right,

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<v Speaker 3>so you can set it to not do that. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't have to set up your AI to go

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<v Speaker 3>that far.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's also based on something that's previously happened, correct,

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<v Speaker 2>So when you have a situation that is new and

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<v Speaker 2>the computer can't refer back to anything, you're screwed. More

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<v Speaker 2>on a coming up AI coming up next, The Good

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<v Speaker 2>side of AI. We like to be fair and bound here,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we try to do our best. That's coming

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<v Speaker 2>up next on WBZ with Scott Barredelt.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't go away.

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<v Speaker 2>Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World,

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<v Speaker 2>Nice Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. Welcome back, Gary

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<v Speaker 2>Tangling for Dan Ray tonight. Scott Barredeal joining us here

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<v Speaker 2>talking about well, we were ripping on AI and I

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<v Speaker 2>do want to get to the positive end of things.

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<v Speaker 2>But when do you think, Scott, it'll be so cost

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<v Speaker 2>prohibited or maybe we've seen examples of it where a

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<v Speaker 2>company says, all right, we're losing so much business.

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<v Speaker 1>This AI isn't working. I need to get a real

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<v Speaker 1>person back in here.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think that's for companies that kind of kind

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<v Speaker 3>of go too far, too fast. I think there definitely

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<v Speaker 3>been some examples of companies that have maybe dived in

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<v Speaker 3>a little too fast, went too far, and then they

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<v Speaker 3>had to pull back. You know, I mentioned this survey

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<v Speaker 3>by a choir bpo, which if you want to see

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<v Speaker 3>the full survey, it's at at acchoirbpo dot com. But

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<v Speaker 3>what the data shows people are most confident in a

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<v Speaker 3>situation where there's a blend of human support and AI support.

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<v Speaker 3>They like that AI support can make things go faster,

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<v Speaker 3>so like you don't want to be on hold for

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<v Speaker 3>thirty minutes before you get to talk to someone, things

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<v Speaker 3>like that. So there are a lot of things that

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<v Speaker 3>AI can do. And if they know, hey, if I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not getting what I need from, AII can escalate to

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<v Speaker 3>a person. I can use AI to help me identify

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<v Speaker 3>and consolidate kind of the past customer service experience I've had,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, but then I don't then I can talk

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<v Speaker 3>to a person to solve the problem I'm having right now.

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<v Speaker 3>You talked about, you know, AI knows the past but

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<v Speaker 3>can't predict the future. That's where it's a good idea

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<v Speaker 3>to have that blend. Companies that have made the mistake

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like this lawyer made of thinking, Oh, I

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<v Speaker 3>can just AI looks like it knows what it's talking about,

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<v Speaker 3>so I can just assume it does. Just remember it's

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<v Speaker 3>wrong fifty two percent of the time, or something is

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<v Speaker 3>wrong in answer and you have to check it. It's

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like in the early days of Wikipedia. Really

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<v Speaker 3>it's still true today, but people would say, hey, don't

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<v Speaker 3>Wikipedia is not, you know, gospel. You can don't do

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<v Speaker 3>your research paper and just say I got it out

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<v Speaker 3>of Wikipedia. You have to. It can guide you, but

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<v Speaker 3>go find the original sources.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, even when I do research for the show, when

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<v Speaker 2>we talk politics or we do something of a serious

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<v Speaker 2>nature where you want to get your facts straight, I

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<v Speaker 2>will online. I'll start reading different things in n'lb like

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<v Speaker 2>three quarters of the way and I go, wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 2>this is bull crap. Where did this come from? This

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense. You know, you can't.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to vet it. You got to vet stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, listen, I called my bank the other day.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to mention the bank. I call my

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<v Speaker 2>bank the other day. And you know, when you go

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<v Speaker 2>through you punch all the buttons and for this and

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<v Speaker 2>for this, But I had a certain situation. I had

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<v Speaker 2>a certain question regarding as regarding an account, and I

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<v Speaker 2>got a person because I like to talk to people,

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<v Speaker 2>and then that person had to send me to a supervisor,

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<v Speaker 2>and that supervisor didn't know the answer, they had to

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<v Speaker 2>send me to a manager above the supervisor. Where your

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<v Speaker 2>point is well taken is if the first person had

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<v Speaker 2>the AI to give them the answer, then they could have.

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<v Speaker 1>Just simply told me and I would have been.

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<v Speaker 3>Satisfied right right for how you yeah exactly?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, because yeah, because the answer was the answer.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't hard. They just had to get to somebody

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<v Speaker 2>who actually had the information. I was on hold for

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<v Speaker 2>an hour.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. It's like when you go to the doctor's office

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<v Speaker 3>and you have to fill out the clipboard every single time.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, are you saving any of this information from

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<v Speaker 3>one visit to the next. Yeah. So there's definitely some

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<v Speaker 3>advantages to automation, which of course has been around forever,

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<v Speaker 3>and AI that is kind of taking that to the

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<v Speaker 3>next level.

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<v Speaker 1>What about the positive end of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, there's a tremendous amount of a positive if you

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<v Speaker 3>know how to use it. In other words, you can

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<v Speaker 3>be far more productive. I can tell you that you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Part of what I work at at a PR and

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<v Speaker 3>marketing firm and we do search engine operstation things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I can tell you more and more people are doing

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<v Speaker 3>their searches through a chat CPT or GYM night rather

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<v Speaker 3>than going to the traditional Google search, because Google will

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<v Speaker 3>send you to a page somewhere and maybe it's an optimize,

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<v Speaker 3>but maybe it's not the best answer to your question.

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<v Speaker 3>And in the case of these, searching for what you're

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<v Speaker 3>looking for and doing your research through a tool like

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<v Speaker 3>a chat CPT, and again increasingly they're including their source

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<v Speaker 3>links and things to make it more so you can

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<v Speaker 3>check that it's it's accurate. It's a much more effective

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<v Speaker 3>way of gathering information, and it's increasingly becoming. It's predicted

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<v Speaker 3>before too long it's going to be the number one

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<v Speaker 3>people the way people search for the information that they're

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<v Speaker 3>looking for online. So it's inevitable that it's going to

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<v Speaker 3>keep getting better. It's it's it's amazing how far it's

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<v Speaker 3>come and how many people are using it in the

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<v Speaker 3>short amount of time it's been around, have been widely available,

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<v Speaker 3>So you've got to assume that at the rate at

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<v Speaker 3>which it's improving and progressing. A lot of these things

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<v Speaker 3>that have caused the problems are going to go away.

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<v Speaker 1>What about in the medical world.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, in the medical world, obviously you have to operate

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<v Speaker 3>with caution, you know, I would say medical as well

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<v Speaker 3>as kind of highly regulated industries like finance. For example,

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<v Speaker 3>there was a big case with the think Bank of

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<v Speaker 3>America where uh Ai was chatbot was giving given people

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<v Speaker 3>uh incorrect information about mortgage loans and kind of important

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<v Speaker 3>financial transactions. In the medical world, obviously even more important

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<v Speaker 3>to to be careful becused. You're talking about life and

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<v Speaker 3>death stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's when I think about situations like that,

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<v Speaker 2>And the reason I asked the question is if you

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<v Speaker 2>need to so you have a task, either in the

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<v Speaker 2>medical world or the financial world, and you need one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred percent activity to complete that task, I can see

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<v Speaker 2>AI taking you to twenty five percent and then somebody

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<v Speaker 2>else has to take you the rest of the way.

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<v Speaker 1>That's you know, that's what I see.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see you can't have AI complete one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>percent of that task in those areas.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's that's a good way to think about it.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the higher risk the task, the more important

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<v Speaker 3>it is to have humans more involved, particularly at this

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<v Speaker 3>stage of the development of AI. But I will tell

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<v Speaker 3>you we actually did a survey a company called Christa,

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<v Speaker 3>which is like they're like a Amazon Alexa conversational AI,

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<v Speaker 3>but they work within companies. They did a survey asking

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<v Speaker 3>people what they trusted AI to do and not do,

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<v Speaker 3>and it just showed you kind of the amail confusion

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<v Speaker 3>out there, like is AI going to help you my

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<v Speaker 3>job or is it going to take away my job?

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<v Speaker 3>But one of the questions ask quite the scenario is like,

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<v Speaker 3>do you trust AI to pick your wardrobe for work?

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<v Speaker 3>Or would you press AI to fly a plane with

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<v Speaker 3>no pilot in it? And more people picked I would

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<v Speaker 3>trust AID to fly a plane but no pilot in

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<v Speaker 3>it than picked my clothes, you know. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of people that are just still it's

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<v Speaker 3>also new that they're all trying to come to terms

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<v Speaker 3>with it and at least to some weird tuxtapositions like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I will leave you with this, I will never ever

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<v Speaker 2>get in a car that drives itself ever. Ever, I've

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<v Speaker 2>heard that, Okay, you can have a driver, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you can get in the car, you can sit in

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<v Speaker 2>the back seats, you know, and you can work and

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<v Speaker 2>you can you get on your laptop and do work

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<v Speaker 2>and you punch in where you're going to go and

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<v Speaker 2>the car takes you there.

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<v Speaker 1>No way. I don't trust it never. What are your

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts on that.

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<v Speaker 3>You could get carjacked? Also, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't get that. And they've had it,

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<v Speaker 2>They've had tests where people.

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<v Speaker 1>Have been killed.

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<v Speaker 2>Guys get the vaccine, and they have supposedly a driving

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<v Speaker 2>less car. I don't get it. That's the part where

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's insane.

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<v Speaker 3>Like I think I'm going to be old fashioned on

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<v Speaker 3>that one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Even think with being old fashioned. I just think it's

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<v Speaker 2>common sense, you know. It's like, look, technology has helped

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<v Speaker 2>all of us. I get it, you know, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>open to it. But I mean, look, voice commands on TV.

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<v Speaker 2>When I want to go, like, you know, into my

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<v Speaker 2>TV you know, watch you know, watch the Boston Celtics bowmen,

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<v Speaker 2>it pops up. I love that you can help me

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<v Speaker 2>with that, but I don't need you to drive my

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<v Speaker 2>damn car.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think I'll drive myself too, for the indefinite future.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, scart Baradel. What's the name of a company.

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<v Speaker 3>My company is called Idea bro and the survey is

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<v Speaker 3>by a company called a Choir BPO.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, well, listen, I appreciate you coming on. You

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<v Speaker 2>sound like a reasonable person. You've really come I I

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<v Speaker 2>really have enjoyed this conversation because you've made me feel

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<v Speaker 2>a little more comfortable to be quite honest.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. Have a good night and have a

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<v Speaker 1>good thanksgiving.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, you two take care, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>Scott Barreto joining us here and AI the good and

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<v Speaker 1>the bad. Yeah, the AI voices please die? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>kidding me? Good?

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<v Speaker 3>God?

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up next the final hour here on night side,

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<v Speaker 2>this evening. What are you thankful for? And I understand.

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<v Speaker 2>We're thankful for our families. We're thankful for Rob Brooks.

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<v Speaker 2>We're thankful for Marita Lo Rosa that you know, our producer.

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<v Speaker 2>We're thankful for our family. We're thankful for our health.

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<v Speaker 2>But let's get a little creative. Let's get a little creative,

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<v Speaker 2>let's get a little unique. Give me some different takes

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<v Speaker 2>on what you're thankful for? At six one seven two,

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<v Speaker 2>five thirty we're going to open up the phone lines.

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<v Speaker 2>I do have some pretty funny lists that we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get into. Unique things to be thankful for. Coming

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<v Speaker 2>up next on WBZ