Speaker 1: Calorokas shark media. Hea.
Speaker 2: Here, I'm Johnny Max. Something a little different for you today.
I made a friend on the internet. He is for
ad Mohammed. I don't really know him. We were just
running around in the same circles talking about the same
kind of things, and I'm like, hey, why don't you
come on and we'll talk about late night for an hour.
And that's what we did.
Speaker 1: Let's just jump in.
Speaker 2: The curtain that's behind you is just beautiful and amazing.
Can can you tell us about the curtain and what
it looks like and what is the origin of this curtain.
Speaker 1: Certainly the curtain behind me is espacially a multicolored curtain.
It's actually just a bunch of like wedding like a
small curtain. See, these are like separate pieces, but basically
I put them all together in order to have this
multicolor effect, in order for it to recreate the look
and feel of the curtains that we're on The Tonight
Show starring Johnny Carson back I would say between the
seventies to his final show and in the end night.
So yeah, I call I called them the Carson curtains.
I'm if the people from the Cars Entertainment Group go
after me and I'll just call them the Living Color
like that. But yeah, that's that's pretty much the h
that'sretty much the whole deal there. Well, I did this
s order about for my web series I'm still putting together,
kind of not called the talk show Show. It's just
basically talked about talk show history. If there will the
latest things you're having it like my talk shows and
everything like that.
Speaker 2: As an expert in legally distinct content, they're probably I'm
almost assured that if I pulled up the Carson curtains,
they're probably totally different. But they're giving off vibe, which
is what's the important thing.
Speaker 1: That's the important you.
Speaker 2: Know, if we if we filmed something that took place
in nineteen seventy eight or nineteen eighty two maybe and
they had those curtains, it would look right, and that's
always the most important thing.
Speaker 1: Precisely. Yeah, I'm going for the look. I'm not going
for an exact replica. There are already exact replicas in micanzums.
And you know, the official curtains all either stowed away
either I think they're either at the center or they're
inside of a person's private collection either way. But yeah,
but I've seen I've seen the curtains being I've seen
like a version of the curtains being used on late
talk shows and they go for like an eighties night.
I see it on Fallon as well as Kimmel. And
also when David Letterman got like some sort of comedic
lifetime achievement of war on Comedy Central, they actually used
the curtains to put behind him in the back because
it was named after Johnny.
Speaker 2: So, if I'm recalling correctly this the past summer, Kimmel
was doing an eighties week with the curtains and the look,
and that is when the little Kurf fluffle broke out, right,
and that week didn't happen. Am I remembering that correctly?
Speaker 1: I thought the week I thought it didn't happen because
his band leader.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, Okay, I'm misremembering, Yes, yes, yes, But
I don't think they ever went back and did that
week unfortunately.
Speaker 1: No, I'm hoping that they do that again. But I
completely understandable as to why it was cut short, either
because I do believe it was because of Leado, but
it was also because his show was taken off the
year a couple of upper, a couple of days. Then yeah,
I can understand why they wouldn't go back to that
just right now. They do have other shows plan and
everything like that, so I'm sure it'll do an eighties,
you know, through back week at another point in time.
Speaker 2: All Right, I'm gonna come over to your place tonight
around eleven thirty five. Let's watch some TV. I'm going
to move for late night television, whichever show you pick.
Who are we watching for the.
Speaker 1: Current ones or just in general current Okay? I usually
start out with Kimmel manly, because he does a funny
and distant, a decent distillation about what's happening in the
news of the day. I also at eleven thirty five,
I would also turn into Fallon because I'm a huge
fandit that's nine show franchise, and I think that Fallon
for what he is doing and what his goals are,
I think he's doing a pretty decent job. I do
understand that he is not a political satirist, and so
he is not going to be as biting as Colbert
or Kimmel, but I would away. I would also, but
I would I always try to tune in to see
what he's doing and what's the games he's playing anything
like that. He's trying to be like a lighthearted compliment
to the likes of Kim and Colbert, and of course
Colbert where you would also tune in as well, because
the mobologuees are absolutely fantastic end guests are really o
provoking and everything. So, I mean, it's tough to the
side because of the fact that all the monologues are
pretty much uploaded to YouTube like two hours before a
day or live. Here on the West Coast, I usually
see the mobologues like around like eight or nine PM,
which is kind of which is kind of the purpose
to get the late night or whenever I am up
at that time, and I I try to tune into
all three.
Speaker 2: I want to pull on a few threads there, especially
with the time zone thing. I keep wondering. I understand
how the network television business works and the affiliates business,
but I keep wondering if there's some sort of value
to putting these things out on a streamer at eight
PM that I know for me, there's a much better
chance of me sampling one of those things if they
were live or live on tape in the eight pm
Eastern hour at eleven thirty, there's pretty much zero chance
of me watching and I'm going to watch clips. I
understand that is the commerce in which we live. But
maybe if these things were actually on, people might look.
Speaker 1: At them, I would imagine. So I do think that
the especially for a late night talk show, which which
is based which is very very time sensitive, to put
it on a to put on a streaming platform at
like a day afterwards kind of defeats the purpose or
even like the morning afterwards, because a lot of stuff
might be happening in the news between the time that
the show tapes and the time to just see it,
and at the time the show tapes of like you know,
anywhere between four to like six pm on the East Coast,
and so by the time it reaches the time it
reaches uh, by the time it reaches the streaming platform,
there might be something happened in the morning or something
like that may not be accurate anymore, so that that
might make the monologue not active anymore. Yeah, I do
think that happened because I was thinking of having, like
I remember posting this on threads a while ago, that
there might be a time where if one of the
days of the week is not really performing very well
for a network, they may consider showing a show like
The Tonight Show or Late Night with step Myers on
NBC at a day of some teeousy like they do
with Saturady Night Lot Live Now, because I really been
performing very well for NBC as far as I can tell,
outside of like sports events or something like that. So
what they do is that they show is that they
show USNL as early as thirty over here, and over
here in Los Angeles, it's still over, it's still at
eleven thirty in New York City, but it's shown simultaneously
so everybody, so that everybody can see it instead of
having us to wait until all until the show is on,
until the show comes on, and at that point at
like two thirty or three o'clock in the morning in
New York when it would finally premiered a eleven thirty
here on the West Coast. Yeah, I do think that
that sort of that that sort of deal with very
advantageous for SML for it to be shown simultaneously. And
I do think that if they were to do that
with one of the late night shows like well in
a week, not having it to do like for every
single day because they end with the Jay Leno Show.
But if you were to do that for one day
where it is not as performing as well, which obviously
wouldn't be the day where the Chicago like PD and
Fire and Catcher is on, or or on the days
where Da Line is on or anything like that day,
it would be pretty much safe. But if there's like
a day where some of their sitcoms are doing too
well and they want to have like, you know, like
a special time for this like semi cats version of
The Tonight Show or for a Sera Caz version of
Late Night, I think that would do pretty well. That
might intercede with some of the with the local news
and syndi aphilias other time zone, but they could be
able to make a sort of arrangement that way. So yeah,
I do think that that that sort of arrangement would
be cool. But if anything else, if they were to
do that on the streaming platform for Peacock for NBC
or for Now for PBS, or their comments on Lease
but for Hulu on for ABC, I think that would
really drive up the numbers. And if they're really trying
to include streaming numbers on the alf these platforms here,
I think that would that would be a definite boon
in that particular case here. So since they're releasing the
monologue on YouTube for free anyway during around that time
after the monologue is over, So yeah, I do think
that's that would be a Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's so many weird things, like right now we're living
in this weirdness with snl UK where I'm seeing a
third of the show on YouTube on Saturday night by
nine pm Eastern and then Peacock's making me wait, and
then by the time I watched the show, I'm like, oh,
I've already seen this sketch and I'm skipping through half
of it. Like I don't understand the Peacock delay at all, you.
Speaker 1: Know, matter do I know?
Speaker 2: I mean, even if they ran it at eleven thirty Eastern,
I don't think you're competing with Saturday Night Live US
or whatever we're calling the mothership now, like just just
put it.
Speaker 1: Up, yeah, yeah, or if anything else but on like
because of the show and time, daneously put it on
immediately after a Saturday Night Live as already in their
broadcast that you know, if anybody wants to see sernay
ve UK immediately afterwards, they can just do that. And
for people on the West Coast that would be very
advantageous because Saturday Live ends at around like ten pm
over a year, so you know, we I just got
the sn L UK and get another hour of SNL
based programming I'm right afterwards. So yeah, I definitely do
see that as a as a good way to do that.
What I am noticing though, is that Peacock is now
starting to show It's now starting to premiere sml UK
earlier and earlier. Originally was supposed to be on at
like nine pm on Sunday and now and then that
it was on like three pm on Sunday, and I
think recently it was on at like ten am on Sunday.
So they're getting close. So hopefully they'll see if the
numbers keep increasing as they move it earlier and earlier
by having it right after the broadcast of bethnl US,
then probably that'll that'll be the best, That'll be the
best course of action for them. But they are starting
to notice that people are wanting to see sml UK
shortly after the shortly after the episode has aired. Over
in the UK. Yeah, we'll see how we'll see a peacock.
Speaker 2: I like what we're getting out of that show. I
think it's going throughun the middle of both being Saturday
Night Live as one would know it, but also feeling
British enough. I say that as a yank, but you
know it, it feels right to me. So far, I
have found it to be funnier than this current American season.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, I hope it sticks around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope it's it's frown too. Given the fact
that the that the types of humor is slightly different
in the UK than it is in the US, I
wouldn't stay that it's funnier, but I would say it
is very funny. And I do find the occurrency that's
very fun as well. Yeah, but I but I do
see it as like it's like in the Moves Booshell,
different comedic tastes and everything like that. I mean, you
wouldn't have a sketch like the Bastard seagull from a
couple of weeks ago. Uh, that's no us, that's a
little bit it's a little bit of that's a little
bit too tight. And as far as I'm concerned, and
I don't think the US writers would have that would
have that sort of common sensibility, or at the very
least would not think that they would make it to air.
So I'm glad that they're that they're being a little
bit more experimental with that UK. And then to be
fair with that snel Us, the Colemon Domingo episode is
exceedingly experimental. So I'm glad they're trying to you know,
embrace the weird southern end, have the host and not
have the host to match to sn L, but to
have SNL the match to the host and has been
coming with such a machine that you know, all you
do is just get you know, any it's getting any
sort of like you know, cardboard cutout of an actor,
place them in there and just have say the lines,
and then you get an episode of the best Well,
but in this case they were really writing to the
host strings and the same and the same with the
the or the more recent Ryank Gostling episode. Yeah he
kiggles a lot and everything like that, but he's able,
but he also doesn't race the weirdness a lot more,
and so the writers were I believe the writers are
a little bit more free in order to you know,
go from the fences of.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, that most recent episode was fantastic. And also
you can tell they know that we know that Ashley
Padilla is the next great one, Like did did they
They're letting us know that they know for a featured player,
she's getting a lot of airtime she is.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do wonder what they're going to be doing
for the intro sequence for next season. From I've I've
had some people tell me they kind of update. There's
their intro sequences every two years. I'm hoping that they
don't have this one to stick around a little bit
more one because it was for the fiftieth niverse and
I'd like to see that sort of iconography still there.
I mean, obviously the fifty is gone, but a lot
of the stuff regarding the look at the logo and
stuff is still there. And also that intro sequence was
the first time as far as I can tell, without
incorporating of the clips from beforehand. In like in like
the intro to special or something like that anniversary special,
they incorporated not only the interior of a h but
also cat but also crew members who actually work on
the show. And I thought that was a really cool
way in order to celebrate the d show in its entirety,
because a lot of the intro sequences involved the cat
Romers being outside and then you stay outside and neither
they run to the studio or they're just hanging out
or something like that. Maybe or maybe they might do
like a bunch of still photo something like that, like
for I think like the for a couple of years
of the past fifth season, but ordering for anniversary season.
But I do think that for this one they were
able to incorporate both exterior shots as well as matching
them to interior shots within a age, and it was
really like this cool flow there. So I really hope
that they still incorporate that in some way, shape or
form for the next season. And then if they and
if they do keep the current intro, that they know
something specifically for Ashley so she would be in between
I believe Colin jostin Sarah Sherman in the cast, So
that that's really that should that should be a pretty
uh that should be an already available way in order
to incorporate and order incorporate an additional cast Hover because
both Michael Longfellow and Abel and Wolden were also inside
it also in the the intro sequence win it was
for season fifty, but then when they let then when
they either fired or the distant return beteen fifty one,
that did leave a bit of a gap. So putting
in Ashley would would be a relatively easy transition of
red and a rather.
Speaker 2: Easy so you see the smile on my face. You
are not messing around with that answer by Fred. That
was somebny who knows about they're talking about? That was
not a winged answer. I love that one. Do you
have an opinion on mister Michaels should he stick around?
I keep looking at Will Ferrell and musical guest Paul
McCartney and a cast that's not that strong, and your
eighty something, and uh, Tina's hanging out in the UK
a little bit. Supposedly she's been pseudo show running over there.
I saw a couple of articles. Maybe on late night
or is that a good time. Let McCartney sing seventeen
verses of let It Be and go home? Hey Jude,
I'm sorry it would be hit Jude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Hey Jude, absolute yeah. I tried to hate
Jude at karaoke. I had I did not realize how
long the song is. I was up there for ten
minutes just singing no no, no, no, no, no, over
and over. But anyway, but here's the l I think
that Lorne should go when he feels like he when
he feels like that it's a fun anymore. I think that,
you know, it's his show. He helped build it. I
won't say that he created because a lot of it
has to do with that memo that Herb Schlosser wrote
out about how we Deba Shawan and Terry Knight and
he can be an eight AGAs in thirty Rockies New
York blah bla blah blah, and then Lauren kind of
like adjusted to those instructions and helped make that show
but also take care for Saul with the huge part
of you know, forming to get to the show and
making sure it was under budget as much as it
can be. And so there are a lot of there
are a lot of people who created the show, but
Lauren was definitely the visionary behind the show. And so
I do think that if he wants to keep on,
you know, show running, and if he's managed to set
up a system where he does not where it's not
like he doesn't have to do as much work. But
I do think that, you know, given that image worry
is in his eighties, that there are a lot of
there are a lot of ways to be able to
delegate a lot of the you know, sort of more
menial tasks that he would usually do when he was
in his forties or fifties. Then yeah, I mean he
should definitely, you know, he definitely has a comedic guy.
He definitely has a he definitely has a good sense
of where talent is. That's definitely a showcase with the
h and as well as well as Jane Wicklin. Jane
Wicklin is really starting to come into a run there
as well. And I do think think that, Yeah, I
do think that he should just host the show for
as long as he wants to and then if the
Dessia has to step down, especially with that catchesting that does,
that does kind of make me wonder I see whether
or not he feels that it's ready for him to
step down. If he does feels if he feels that
he's ready to step down, he stepped down. If he
doesn't feel like he's ready to step down, he should
just keep on going. Probably not so long that you know,
he starts, he starts to come forget for something like that.
But he's just but from what I've seen, he's still
pretty sharp. So I'm not kind, I'm not I'm not
really worried about that. So yeah, I do think that
Lorne should be there for as long as he wants to,
and when he's ready, then I'll then we're we're all
kind of ready for some sort of you know, farewell
or something like that. I just really hope that he
doesn't like die the middle of this show, because the
show will still go on. I remember I think Seth
was talking a Q and A. He was people would
sometimes ask him questions about how about what would happened
after Louren or something like that, that, yeah, the show
will probably still contee. You just be like, you know, oh,
hold on, Lorn died. We gotta cut the sketch down
by a couple of weeks. No, I do hope that.
I do hope that Lauren exits when on his own terms,
because his show has been pretty much on his own
terms except for nineteen eighty five. But anyway, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost an impossible person to follow. I think you'll
have to have somebody with name recognition. Again, Tina's name
gets thrown around a lot. Seth a little bit. I
think if it's not somebody with star power, you immediately
are wide open to the show's not good anymore. So
and so's not up to the task. But I also
think there's the value of having enough gravitas to be
able to tell the network to hose off and to
back off, whereas if there is a lesser known person,
you're probably more prone to budget cuts. Or do we
need X people in the cast? Can we do this
with eight people? Do we need sixteen episodes? What if
we only need fourteen episodes? Or do we need music?
Or all these questions? Whereas do we.
Speaker 1: Do all of these? Do all of these have to
be live? And some of them be pre taped? And
so on? Yeah, let's let's take too long here. You
ever saw that? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: All right, let me be a good host and actually
build a break into our little discussion here. And I
want to come back and talk Jay Leno. Early on
this conversation, you name checked Jay Leno's ten PM show.
I have a I don't know if it's controversial. It's
not like people are debating us on the streets. But
it's an opinion that I think that was the right
show that came along a little too early. I think
the model made sense. And my straw argument is, given
current network television, if you told me you could get
Stephen Colbert to do some sort of Charlie Rose type
thing sitting at a desk with a black curtain behind you,
and it's inexpensive to produce, that might not be the
worst idea for network television heading into twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Seven, that might not be, but I do think that, yeah,
one of the major problems with that twenty ten was
still a very very good year for linear television, and
so to not only shorten the prime time schedule by
a third third in the in the for a prime
time at NBC at a point where NBC was still
kind of the shaky in terms of in terms of
their brought in terms of their broadcasting power at that
point because this post Mussy TV Friends is already off
the air, er just went off the air, so there
they were kind of on shaking ground. But because of that,
as well as the fact that they brought in the
show that brings in great numbers, if it were the
Tonight Show, this is the Jay Lenvel Show brought in
like standard Tonight Show numbers. That is not what they
were looking for ten pm though, I mean they were
following like a whole bunch of other programs that were
on at that hour, you know, going all the way
back to like next you got mean, this is this
is the time slot that Quantum Leap and Hill Street
Blues and Law and Order and definitely Dateline around the Air.
And so to completely remove that particular hour that's that
was still pretty strong for NBC at that time was
not the best of ideas. I do think that if
they went to a weekly show, which Jay would not
have agreed to it all, but they did go to
a weekly show and have Jay to build up an
audience with that as I'm like a like a you know,
have to be like the continuation of the Thursday night
comedies are happening on that time. That probably would have worked,
and then they probably could have fixed it to you know,
two days or they kind of the same way that
they did with Who Wants to Be the Leonarroc When
it first started out, it was a major head and
so they just burned on this minute and as many
times plot as they possibly could, because it was because
it was guaranteed greeting at that time unfortunately did suffer
from a lot of overexposure and a lot of burnout
for people, and so that's why I didn't do it.
That's why I kind of puzzled out afterwards. But we
that said, I do think that hobbling the prime time
schedule for NBC at a point where they really needed
to work to go as well as they needed it to.
I don't think that would have been the I don't
think that was the rect course of action. As you
said before, I do think that in twenty twenty seven,
especially now at timeslots are a little bit less of
a factor, unless you unless you're talking about you know,
gut faeld or something like that. Then yeah, that probably
would have been a that probably would have been a
better that probably would have been a better choice to
have on the air if they if it was something
that would be relatively cheap to produce, but again, we
probably would want to start that out at like one
day a week and then just build up from there
instead of having it just be completely every single night.
And I do think that was that was like that
was the Achilles, smel and a JA that show.
Speaker 2: That One of the what IFFs I think about is
clearly somebody's having some sort of conversation. Hey, these numbers
aren't so good. Somebody says what about Jay?
Speaker 1: Or who?
Speaker 2: Maybe Jay starts the conversation, but at some point it's
on the table. What if we replace Conan with j?
Now what happens if J says no, I would never
do that. Are we looking at? Is Conan still on
at eleven thirty? Or does Conan get hooked and Jimmy
Fallon gets the show a little earlier and maybe he's
not ready yet. This is one of those what ifs
that I play with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually that's a darn good I don't really think
about what would have happened if Jay just decided not
to do it, because it was always pursued that that
question was moved anyway. But no, I do think that
if Jay did not go back, I do think that
he would have tried to go on to ABC and
probably you know, get like they. I don't think he
would go on to I don't think he would go
onto the to the twelve thirty slot. And I'm going
to try to do this as with Eastern and Pacific
times can even though my brain automatically thinks late you know,
Late Night with David Leergman was on at eleven thirty
because that's when it was on the Chicago I grew
up anyway, So yeah, I don't think that Jay would
have gone to twelve thirty on ABC. I do think
that he probably would have done what Conan eventually did
with the George Lopez Show and just have his show
to be on at eleven thirty or possibly or maybe
a half hour version of that show, and it maybe
would have expanded and then and then because Kimmel, I
believe that point was already on at midnight because the
Night Lane was on beforehand. He didn't switch over to
the eleven thirty five slot until a little afterwards about
the sake, And so I do think that Ja probably
would have gone on into aec or or done some
other sort of deal or something like that. I really
don't know. I don't know if he would have tried
to get if he would have tried to try to
get a date job, ors like that don'ts but anyway,
but I do, but I do think he would have
gone to someplace else and I. And while I don't well,
I do think that Conan would have stayed on. I
don't know how long he would have been on the show.
I'm not entirely sure if he would still be on
right now, especially given the fact that he did a
show that you know, that was completely his, that was
that was completely under his creative control over a TVs
and he left five years ago. So I don't think
that he would have been on as long as Jay
or Johnny or anything like that. I think he would
have been on there for probably about ten years, maybe
you know, maybe up to fifteen, which would have been
up last year. But I do think that he would
have you know, probably switched on over to that. He
probably would have done the similar rept these doing right
now you will be on the podcast, he would be
you knowing people. And I do think that Fallon probably
would have stayed over the Late night for as long
as he for as long as he felt that he
could keep that show. And he also had Lorne Michael's
behind him, so he definitely had some definite heft to it,
and he and if anything else, he probably would have
brought the show back to New York, as he did
back in twenty fourteen, and so I do think that
Fallon would have eventually become the host of the to
Night Show, and he probably would be the host of
that to Night Show right now, but but I don't
know if he was, but it would have been a
little bit different compared to how it was when Jay
was over there for another five years. I think that
I think that Fellow would have been over would have
been on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon for about ten
years and then much like what's Conen and Dave actually,
and then they would have moved on to the Tonight
Show at that point in time. I did feel I
for some reason, I did feel that when he switched,
when he went over to the night show after Jay
stepped down, actually stepped down, that he that I wouldn't
just sure if he was ready for it, because he
was only hosting Late Night for only five years, but
he has demonstrated that he was able to hold onto
that show and you know, and maintain people's interests for
or over ten years now, So most of why I
know in some cases, but yeah, I do think that
I do think that Fellow would be the home that
to Night Show right now because he was the host
of Late Night, and they want to do that kind
of transition that they've always wanted to do between Late
Night and the night show that NBC has bundled up
a couple of times. But but yeah, I do think
that I do think that Conan would probably be in
the same situation he is right now. I don't know
if he would have to have the same deal with
serious extent that he does right now, but he would
have been doing something more. He would have been doing
something creative. He has the documentary says he Can't Stop You,
and he probably doing a show. You're probably doing a
travel log show for Peacock.
Speaker 2: I think you and I are aligned about Jimmy Fallon.
Most people just I roll, Oh, Jimmy Fallon. He's lame,
he sucks, it's vanilla. It's not a good version of
the Tonight Show. But if I'm understanding, you're right, we
are aligned in that Jimmy understands what the Tonight Show
mission is and is executing them mission.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, yes, I do think that, Uh yeah, I
mean I think that he is really holding on to
the notion that of what Johnny Carson said in that
sixty Minutes interview. He does not use it Tonight show
to talk about serious issues. He uses it as a
way to escape, as a way for people to escape
the troubles of the world. He'll he'll make fun of it,
and Johnny does as well as well as Jimmy does.
But it won't be it won't be fighting sat time.
There won't be like a significant you know, point of
view or anything like that. It would rather or not
be analysis. And then the truth is that that's already
happening on two other shows eleven five, He and and
and Jimmy is definitely is definitely the golden retriever of
Late Night. He wants everybody to be happy. He wants
everybody to feel great, the guests, the audience, the audience
at home and everything like that. The crew, well maybe
not maybe not the crew in some cases, but anyway,
he isn't given that they've given a previous story about
what was going on behind the scenes, but from what
I understand, that atmosphere has changed from what I'm understanding
about what's what's happening over at the over the show.
So so yeah, I do think that Jimmy, it definitely
takes into account that he is the temporary steward of
a seventy year long franchise. Now, granted, Jack paul In
the show was very He definitely had his hard in
his sleeve. He quit the show because he couldn't tell
a joke. He had. He did a show that wasn't
that was from Cuba. He had John Acandy on as
like a guest host of What I'm Mistaken, if not
like just a part of the panel, and so he
definitely had He was did me a lot more focusing on,
you know, talking about the serious issues on the show.
But that wasn't when it was a franchise. He was
just the guy after Steve Allen and after the Tonight
after Dark to bottle that took place back but anyway,
but so it was it wasn't considered like an established
franchise just yet because because Alan had Oi been also
the show for I think less than ten years at
that point. So yeah, I do think that I do
think that now that has been establaged, especially with the
longevity of Parson, the longevity of Leno, that there's already
an established way that a Tonight show should be set
up and the types of jokes that are going to
be in there, and so they are working within those
parameters because say, no, that is what has that is
what is given the Tonight shows longevity. So yeah, that
that's I mean, that's why you never hear like any
sort of censored curse words out of out of Jimmy
or out of I mean there might be from the
guests or something like that, but that the guests can't
be predicted there, but you will let prehere in sort
of and sort of curse words out of Jimmy because
he knows that's not how the tinancial operations. That that
that's that that can be done with the Late Night
that can be done with Colbert, you don't Kim if necessary,
but with the Science show, that's just yeah. I just
think that he does see him he does see himself
as like the the person who was carrying on each
positions of what has been happening over that.
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little Jay Leno. One of the jokes
on my show is I always referred to him as
the worst person who ever lived, because any any interview
about Jay Leno is he's just the worst person who
ever lived. He's eyeing in a closet, He's going to
steal your show. He's gonna stab Conan in the in
the back, got it? Got it? And then I listened
to interviews with this guy, and he seems thoughtful, he
seems nice, he seems like he's a good caretaker of
his ill wife. He seems like a good husband. He
seems like a good guy. But he's the worst person
who ever lived. So where are you on on Jay Leno?
I think I really like Jay Leno, but he's never
tried to steal this show, and I actually wish he would.
If Jay Leto tried to hijack Daily Comedy News, I
think that would be good for my career. So Jay,
I dare you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think so? Yeah. But my thoughts on j
are a little bit complicated. But I was paying attention
to the Leno Letterman buffle that's place back in xteen
eighty two. As John Malady would put it, I was
twelve years old, but I was still paying attention to, like,
you know, all the goings on with the networks and
everything like that, and it just intensely fascinated me. But yeah,
I mean, here's the deal. I do think that Letterman
should have gotten tonight show after Johnny stepped down. That
was what Johnny wanted, and that was what a lot
of people in New York wanted. But a lot of
people in LA thought that, you know, Jay had better.
Jay was better with the affiliates. You know, Dave was
very a cervic with the affiliates. He would always talk
about Gees being this horrible company and everything like that.
And whe or not NBC made the right decision is
definitely reflected in the numbers because Leon Letterman beat Jay
for the first two years of the show, and then
all of a sudden people caught on to what Jay
was doing after the the the Hugh Grant interview, and
they never looked back. And so and you know it
was there was a point where there was a billboard
up on like up a Times Square near the CBS
headquarters or at least night some CDs opposite point. Then
it was like picture a huge picture of JSA number
one and late Night. And so Dave got a larger
billboard that was right off to the side of it,
s like number three in Late Night, you know. So
so it's I mean, I I have tuned into j
mainly for mainly for a bit of the modelogue and
for the headlines because it's still the Tonight Show, and
so I was so I was still paying attention, but
I was always more of a Lement fan, and so
I would always tune in for Element for the interviews
Demi Moore for the opening remark slash monologue. In his
monologue got longer and longer. So I do think that
that Leno was definitely a good steward of the Tonight Show.
I do think that would have been a better host.
But Leno definitely did put in the work in order
to give nbc'son numbers they were looking for. With the
Conan situation, I was at. I was absolutely angry, oh,
for all these sorts of mechanations, having the show that
was basically I was basically a rating suck and everything
like that, and so and I do think that Leno
should have just said, no, I'm not going back to
eleven thirty five, that's Conan stuff. You you put Conan
in there, You're gonna have to deal with Conan here,
you know, and then you know, just going and do
some other sort of show afterwards, probably an ADC. But anyway,
because he was definitely a communication with Jimmy Kimmel all
the way up until there was that interamous in a
ten segment on The j Leno Show where Jimmy just
basically said, believe our shows all you know, but anyway,
but overall, I do think that Leno is a consummate
stand up comedian. I will grant him that he's basically
he's basically it's just you know, he he puts in
the effort, he puts in the work to put together
a thet that is like, you know, good, there's good feelings,
stick to the ribs comedy. I've seeing him over at Flappers.
He does like an hour of comedy and the apparently
he goes over there like once every other week or
something like that, especially during the I believe it really
started during the pandemic because he won a Flappers to
to You Loss Good to You as a as a
comedy showcase, and so he decided to lend his name
and his notoriety and everything like that to say, hey,
the tonight shows, jay Leto is performing over flatforms at
this so I do appreciate it he that he was
in support and also just and I do think that
he is a pretty decent guy when you meet him,
and he was very great to his staff. He wanted
to make sure that this staff is well compensated out
after the I think after the after his show was
taken off there twenty nine, and definitely after when he
got taken when he left in twenty thirteen. And also
just also if you take I remember that Don Giller
who's like this Letterman Archives and had like whole bunch
of collection videos online. He did like a eight hour
long series of videos of every single Letto appearance on
Late Night with David Letterman, going all the way from
its first appearance to right before he was I think
right after he was the host of The Tonight Show
and he came to play, and he brought like a
lot of original material. He would never really repeat the
joke un lessons like a really really good one or
something like that. He'd always read his newspapers and everything,
talking about different articles and stories, and he became a
very huge fan favorite. So I get his appeal and
I definitely get his entertainment value. And I do think
that if he went on the CPS, he probably would
probably would have been a very different sort of situation.
Comparing the Tonight Show with David The Tonight Show with
David Letterman and the whatever show that Jay Lennon was
gonna be putting on a TVs. We was first, you know,
quartered by CDs after the Pats Ajax show just kind
of fled. But anyway, Yeah, I do think that Jay
in person and as a as a as a human
being is very good. I mean, I see, I know
a lot of comedians that just the same thing was
the praise about him. I remember I went on the
Dennis Middlelayer's radio show and he would always he was
always on teen J. In that case, they're much less
on teen Conan than the especially during that sort of situation.
But no, I do think that I do think that
Jay is much like everybody is. It's a complicated person
and uh, you know that there are friends who know
who know about you know J and everything like that,
as Letterman mentioned as a drink is uh monologues or
like his death feasts during the twenty tent to Night
Show scheduling compete. But yeah, I do I do think
that he's entertaining. I do think that he hosted the
Tonight's show to the extent that he felt that it
needed to that it needed to go in terms of
like you know what sort of envelopes to push, And
he's definitely and he was definitely a company man. He
definitely was in support of, you know, doing everything he
can for NBC. He was on CNBC for the longest
time with jay Leonsoage, so he's so he's definitely he's
definitely a very loyal person as well. So yeah, it's complicated,
but I do think that that that there could have
been better host to Night show, I guess.
Speaker 2: But who would you have given it to?
Speaker 1: Dave was define to give its state. Yeah, I would
give it to date and in twenty oh nine, twenty ten,
I would have had Conan to find his Tonight's Show
voice because he mentioned at the end of his at
the end of his last Late Night that he was
not that he that he would hero up a lot
of people saying that he needed to change his comedy
and he, I think said the camera that is not
going to happen. And it did happen because there were
a lot of joke There were a lot of like
sketches and stuff that they wanted, you want to show,
but they had to kind of not do it because
it was quotes two twelve thirty five, According to the
Bill Carter book The War for Late Night, And so
I do think that they wanted to start out with
like something really like like base level comedy and then
lean into the smart and stupid lead into the kind
of the weirder stuff after a while. But they just
never got that while yet. Yeah, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think network executives would know better. Uh,
you know, I do this now my career short version
radio program director program to the comedy channels at ERRS XM.
So I've been on both sides of this now, and
you've got to give your talent time to find the voice.
You know now that I'm a guy with a microphone
in the basement, I'm better now than when I first
start did it's just reps and you figure out what
works or what your voice is. And I did the
idea that you've been on Conan. You know what you've
got here. Okay, maybe the show is not totally working
right now, but you got to give these things time
to find their legs. You had an example, Jay Leno
lost for two years and then one for eighteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and the same and the same with Conan
at the very beginning I mean people did not think
he would hold a candle to the sort of the
sort of where the Letterman put together for Late Night
back eleven oh sorry, twelve three. Her brain it is, Yeah,
it's like it's like it's like burned in there. But anyway, Yeah,
I do think that I do think that Conan was
given a lot of had a lot of things going
up against him, you know, being a complete unknown not
really are known more as economedy writer than anything else.
But he did have Lord Michael's behind them at like
at the way in order to kind of shield them
from a lot of the from a lot of the
network machinations, as well as the fact that the cancelation
of the Chevy Chase show gave him a little bit
of cover. The appearance from Letterman on on on Conan Show,
you know, basically saying this show is great and everything
like that, I really gave everybody a bit of a
morale boost and everything. So there were there were a
lot of chances, and and NBC was always you know,
kind of like looking off of the size, see who
else was available. Maybe Gary Shannon could and I doesn't
want to do it, and maybe Grig Kneer well no,
we'll put them on later, literally on later. And uh,
you know, they were, they were doing it, they were,
you know, they were trying different sort of things out.
But then once Conan was able to lock in what
the sort of comedy they could be able to do
on the show and what the audience was receptive to,
it just took off like a rocket. And so yeah,
and then so NBC was started, and so NBC's you know,
and was no longer giving them thirteen week contracts and
getting a multi year contracts and everything like that. So yeah,
you definitely need to let the audience find the host,
and you need to let the host find what the
audience likes as well as finding ways in order to
kind of give the audience, what give the audience things
that they did not know they wanted to have. Yeah,
I mean it's it's a bit there's a bit of
a given take, and that cannot be established in seven months.
Even if you've hosted the Late even if you hosted
the Late Night Show at twelve thirty five for sixteen years,
that Tonight show's a completely different beast, its complete different
audience at a completely different sort of comedic sensibilities. You
can't establish that sort of voice in seven months, and
so I think NBC was really was exceedingly trigger happy
in terms of making these sorts of changes there, And
I really do think they should have waited a bit now. Granted,
Letterman was starting to catch up with him, but a
lot and a lot of it just has to do with,
you know, Jave, you were switching over to Dave because
they were they were so used to Jaden they thought
that Corner was not going to do very well or
something like that. But also there were a couple of
like scandals took place during those beginning months. Agone It's
the Night Show that would not have repeated itself as
Leutterman went on to doing his show regularly. There was
the Sarah Palin joke where he said that a rod
knocked up his daughter, but they didn't describe which daughter
was at the game, because it's automatically assumed that Bristol
was with her, But Bristol was not with her and
her fourteen year old daughter was there, and so that
caused a whole bunch of that caused a whole bunch
of controversy. They did that really did not need to
happen if somebody needed to just research that particular joke anyway,
So people start tuning in for that as well as
the the extortion scandal that took place where where like
his former assistant was going to be extraying for money
and all that sort of things. So yeah, so that
brought in a lot of viewers that I would have
tuned in for Conan and if they you know, they
they were still watching them, you see at the time,
and then it brought them over to Letterman and then
there and then, and unfortunately that they were kind of
like cut off the knees once the Jay Lenvel Show
came in and just brought down the ratings every single
night for every single affiliate, and so they and so
they and so the affiliate started dropping the Jay level show,
but they could be able to maintain their racing so
they could be able to watch their late local news.
And unfortunately the tonight show became a casualty of.
Speaker 2: That you're reminding me of going back to you know,
ninety three, was it ninety two?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: What a weird hire ConA O'Brian was even was you know,
you're following David Letterman, who's this guy Conan? And and
he's not you know, he's not a stand up, he's
a writer, Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: The first week is a little awkward.
Speaker 2: He's tall and lanky, he doesn't look like a late
night host yet you know, now we all have just
accept that. Of course, yeah it's Conan O'Brien. It was just,
uh what a cutsy hire.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And again I do give credit to Lord
Michaels for that because basically, uh NBC was kind of
was kind of running out of options to host the show,
or at least to the executive produce this show because
letter been brought all this people over in the CDs,
and so you know, they needed to find somebody and obviously,
you know Carson, and I believe that Late Night was
also co produced by Carson Productions, but you know, all
the Carson people have gone as well, so they needed
to find somebody and thankfully, Lord Michaels is on an
uptick after after getting Take Lives and thank me ive
and so they brought him in and he says, well,
you know, I think we should bring so you know
that's because because they auditioned like a lot of comedians.
I think John Stewart was one of them and not mistaken.
But but you know, there was like a lot of
meetings that were being auditioned for the show. But Lorne
really had an eye to see. You know, this opponent
guy who does like all these like wild antics in
the writer's room, he could probably do pretty well as
a show. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also want to sing the praises if we ever
make the Late Night Hall of Fame. Maybe there is
one Robert Smigel for Boak his work on that show
in SNL, I mean first ballot, as.
Speaker 1: Well as well as the Data Carvey Show. I'm gonna
I'm always gonna hold it candle for the Data Carvey Show.
But yeah, yeah, absolutely, all.
Speaker 2: Right, let me get another break in here.
Speaker 1: We'll come back.
Speaker 2: We'll talk Colbert Stephen. Colbert's show ending just a couple
weeks from now. Are you sad? Now I've gone three
sixty on Colbert, And I'll tell you why. When they
first when they first ended the show and there was
some some craziness going on in the country, I I
really had this take of boy, if we had a
thoughtful man who looks nice on camera and could give
a heartfelt speech and not seem crazy, maybe that's what
the world could use right now, and maybe he would
be a good candidate for higher office, and it was
all about that. And then I'm a big treky and
he was the voice of the computer on Starfleet Academy,
and and my my star Trek is winning over my politics.
So I've now started referring to him as Star trek
Ruiner Stephen Colbert, along with Star trek Ruiner Patton Oswaltz.
So I now find myself aligned with the President of
the United States, glad that the show is ending just
because I'm petty about Star Trek.
Speaker 1: Oh I canceled my my Paramount Plus subscription after, especially
after Colbert was initially canceled, and so I was kind
of I have not seen Starfleet Academy, and so I
don't haven't you right now now. But I do think
that my thoughts on Colbert ending is that it was
it's definitely I mean, granted, it is a financial decision
in the sense that late night in general is starting
to not making as much money back in the nineteen
nine linear television is not making as much money as
he did. But I do think that there was external
that there were external forces at play. Absolutely when it
came to the cancelation of Colbert, and I am aggravated
by that. I do think that when you take a
look at the amount of money that the Paramount and
sky Dance paid Netflix to to have that, because Netflix
was wanting to get Warner Bugs, and they had had
in their contra and they had in the contract of
the initial deal that they did not get Warner Brothers,
they would have to be paid as a soun out
of money like two billion dollars or something like that.
Two point they and so Paramount said, oh no, we'll
pay that. So they paid Netflix to two point eight
billion dollars. And they keep saying that that the Late
Show is losing forty million dollars a year, that two
point eight billion dollars could have covered the losses for
the Late Show for seventy years. So I don't know
what their priorities are in terms of the money that
they're spending. I do think that having a late night franchise,
even today, even with the even with time slots being
a little bit less you know, concrete and as and
less less of than a less of a factory than
they wore back in the back in the day, having
a city sure, late night franchise. It's still as still
very very important for a network television, for a television network.
And then for the longest time it was always NBC.
It was always you know, it was always the night
show it was and then eventually it was always the
Tonight Show on late night, and CBS put out the
first salvo to have serious competition in the late night
in the late night date park, and so to have
to have Colbert to be taken off the air and
then replaced with pretty much an infomercial for Byron Allen's company.
That that that that that that really grants my years
to borrow phrase from Family Guy, And so I really
I'm perplexed that this sort of thing has happened. What
becomes under the current local climate, and it's kind of
the thing that we're supposed to keep a watch keep
a watch out for. That that that that the idea
that satire could be canceled or that can be affected
by the machinations of the federal government is one of
the things that you should not be doing in this
country year. So, you know, so it was with that,
but with that said, I do think that I do
think Stephen is going to close out the show in
a very very brilliant fashion, and I hope that that
that the show will get all the ratings in the world,
so that when the first ratings come out for Comics
at least at eleven thirty, they'll say, well, this is horrible.
But at the same time, CBS doesn't care because CBS
still gets the money. That's all at the oldest now
on fire and nollen for him to you know, provide
the advice and stuff. So yeah, but I do think
that this will the cancelation of Colbert in the relation
another with comics least will bring out a bit of
a domino effect. And I'm really starting to get scared
as to how the late night day part will fare,
at least within the next fifteen years. I do think
that much like with Saturday morning television, I do think
that a lot of that the networks will start going
towards syndicated programs for that particular day part. And I'm
afraid that, you know, and I think NBCD be the
last holdout because you know, they've they've had the night
just in the years and almost seventy five, and you know,
they've had late night for over forty so I do
think they will still hold on stead a muchs they
possibly can, but then newer executives will come in. Executives
will come in starting to say, you know, why do
think we neep this? You know this antiquated format here
and nobody's watching it. Let's bring it something up. So
that's what I'm afraid of. I do because I know
that Felon and Myers have their contracts up in twenty
twenty eight. They might extended one more year if they
really if they really really want to, but will whenever
they leave, I'm afraid that they might be the last
hosts of their of the of their respective franchises, and
that will be exceedingly sad. And I also think that
the same will happen with with Kimmel. I think that
when Kimble steps down, he didn't run a franchise. It
was his show for over twenty years and so and
so I think he did extend it for one more
year U until twenty twenty steven, but after he got
taken off the air because the affiliates were wanted they
were disconstruing what he was saying in a monologue. I
don't think he'll I don't think he'll want to stay
as long as he as as long as as long
as you think he wants to stay. And so once
he steps down, I think the ABC will probably I
bring Nightline back to the eleven thirty five slot and
against City Fallon and Byron aut one and then and
then eventually if Nightline isn't doing as well or they
move Nightline to like, you know, the date line slot
over like eight pm of Friday, something like that, then
then we'll send or sorry not nine pm on Fridays.
And then we'll start to see then we'll start to see,
you know, sence some sort of indicator taking over for
ABC's slots as well. It's kind of scary. I mean,
I've been a fan of Late Nights as any four
since I was at least since I was twelve. I mean,
my mom would play like clips of the Tonight Show
on a tape that she recorded when I was one
year old, and so I would and so I would
listen to this in one clip of the Tonight Show
over and over again. She wanted to record it and
play it for me so that I would learn how
to spell. I not a spell, but it wasn't because
of that clip when I became the result of that
clip was every game of fan Sonny Carson.
Speaker 2: So it's gonna say I was gonna psychoanalyze the man
sitting in front of the rainbow curtain. I mean, I
don't have a degree, but there's not much to figure
out there. I think Jimmy Kimmel stays he's in his fifties.
That Colbert audience, let's just half ass math. Oh yeah,
A third of them goes away. So there's two thirds
of people who liked watching something at eleven thirty. I
think they go to Kimmel over fallon. So I think
Kimmel becomes the new king of late night. And if
he is fifty eight to fifty nine, sixty years old,
if he's not doing that, what are you doing? I
think you do like we talked about Lauren Michaels, you
need a reason. What is your existence? He already has
the summers off, he already has a long vacation over
the winter break. I'm sure if he said, you know what,
follow the Carson model, the Howard Stern moel, you know what,
I'm only gonna do three days and I want a
guest host on Mondays.
Speaker 1: Sure, Jimmy no problem take over his show. So yeah, yeah,
that makes yeah, I mean that that is actually alid
point a bunch of valid points. So yeah, I mean
I do think that after what went on with with
the FBC and everything like that, and thankfully ADYC have
his back after all that place. Yeah, I mean I
was a little bit more. I was a little bit
more pessimistic on that, but I think the optimism, the
more optimistic view is that, yeah, he would probably become
at the US fourth the new king of late night
and just become the ratings leader and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Sorry, the Gutfell people are going to get very mad
at me. Gutfeld is the king of ten PM Eastern,
seven West. They're going to get very mad.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry. Gudfeld
is a primetime show. It has always been. I mean,
I'm sure it's been a late night show when it
was on at eleven o'clock or something like that, but
they moved it up to ten pm, and ever since
then it's ten pm Eastern, nine PM Central, eight pm Mountain,
seven pm Pacific. I don't even know. It might be
on the middle of the afternoon in Hawaii, I really
don't know. I don't know if they go back to
the time over the No, it's a primetime show. It's
a late night format, and not even like a great one.
It's basically a panel show. It's kind of like The Five,
but with the studio audience. But I mean it's pretty
much his show Red Eye, but with the studio audience,
and not at three o'clock in the morning or something
like that. So but no, it's a primetime show and
it reflects the the the audience that are that are
up at that hour. I mean that the fact that
it's on at seven pm in the West Coast means
that any that a whole bunch of people that are
watching Fox News will be able to just we'll just
be able to see it. And that's how they're able
to very cynically teut their out, their out their ratings.
Even though they're saying, oh, we be Colbert, You're not
on the set times Cold Beert. That doesn't work. Let's
saying an Oprah is better than like the Rick d
Show or something like that. You can't do that here,
you know, no, that that just doesn't work. So yeah,
I'm really aggravated by Fox's Way in order to say
that that's the late night show because it is now. Granted,
I do remember John Mlady show Everybody's in La had
the same format. I mean it was definitely there was
a lot more cloudy, or a lot more like pre
taped segments and everything like that. It was a lot
more like a late night talk show, except it was
more like Worth Griffin than Johnny Carson. And while I
would call that a primetime show, was definitely had more
late night sensibilities than cut Field, and so I mean,
I wouldn't include it as like a late night show
in like late night Ers group of shows that they're
paying attention to late night, mainly because Netflix's ratings are
completely beat altogether. But but do see that more as
a late night style show. Sure than Than Than got feilt.
Speaker 2: And Malaney didn't work. And you're reminding me now with
the Netflix as the Joe Comedy Festival coming up at
the start of May, they haven't announced that they're taping
any episodes of that show, So I assume it's over now.
As a lot of time as a long time programmer, producer,
and I said this at the time, the show wasn't
working and I get that. Mullaney was like, we like
to be all over the place. And believe me, I've
had that conversation with hosts a million times, but when
in doubt, put a format on something. I grew up
in New York City radio and I worked with John R. Gambling,
who had taken over the show for John A. Gambling.
Rambling with Gambling was the longest running radio show in history.
And I remember John R. Saying to me one day,
doing this in a long time, there's a format, it works,
just do that, and he was right. It was one
of the great lessons in my early radio career. I
think mulaney needed to have a little bit of more
of a format on it. And because it was you know,
you've got Jerry Seinfeld sitting here, don't water it down
with you know, a volcano expert or whatever you were doing,
like just throw the ball, Hey, Jerry, what's up?
Speaker 1: And then stop talking exactly. Yeah, yeah, And that's that's
among the reasons why I like the Carson Letterman O'Brien
model of having one particular guest talking for a particular
for a segment, having it to be like a full
range conversation. I mean, that. Graham Norton is a great
example of that. He does an excellent show over over
in England, and I know that I know that I'll
do that swift to that well. But at least for
American viewers, we're kind of used to having like, you know,
one set guest to be talking with the host and
interacting with the host. Now, granted, the Norm McDonald not
to be everythist and there was an actress from Meloe's
Place was on and Norm Groop just having to be
sitting that just happen to be sitting off the side
and he started getting like all sorts of ribbing about
you know, that's using the movie German words or to
one classic late night moment, And that would not have
happened if Norm was just not in the room obviously.
But I do think that in a lot of cases,
especially if you have like a essentially, if you want
to establish a format, you do want to have like
one set guest and then maybe even start out with
like the volcano expert to talk about volcanos or something
like that, because unless you unless you're dealing with somebody
who has a great improvisational mind, like Tina Fey when
she was being asked about dinosaurs. I don't know who
would absolutely work and even then the conversation went back
to Lauren Michael. So yeah, it was like one of
the It was like one of the great quotes rubber
reading in the or another biography there where he wor
going on the play and said, it doesn't matter who
you're talking, it doesn't matter what you're talking about him
and talking with somebody who has worked with Warren, the
conversation will eventually go back to war Earlier.
Speaker 2: He used the phrase domino effect. And let me throw
this one past you. I'm hoping if Bill Carter has
a trilogy in him, this will be in the third
in the Late Night Saga trilogy. At one point, Taylor
Tomlinson was renewed at twelve thirty. Okay, it was renewed.
The plan is we're going to keep doing this And
then she said, no, were they still going to get
rid of Colbert? And were you gonna run Byron Allen
at eleven thirty and Taylor at twelve thirty or or
or And I can't say this loudly enough. I am
not blaming Taylor Tomlin said, I can't scream that loudly enough. However,
was there a butterfly effect where she says no, which
starts a conversation in the programming rooms going do we
need a twelve thirty show? And then, once they got
comfortable with that, do we need an eleven thirty show?
What if we didn't have an eleven thirty show? Now
that's great, no, but what if we didn't have an
eleven thirty show?
Speaker 1: I will say that, And granted, I think that if
there was anybody to provide like a definitive history of that,
Beagal Carter for like a third book or something like that.
You know, it's like the late shift, the war for
late not gonna be like the death of late nighters,
now know. But I do think that given the fact
that CDs did not did not even consider bringing in
another host, record Midnight does speak volumes not to say that,
And unfortunately it was not the same. Nobody can talk
to Taylor Tomlinson. People were talking about how different guest
hosts that or that were on the show. We're doing
exceedingly well. I do think that it was definitely a
butterfly effect to say that they've made them more open
to to to removing to removing the laid show when
they were getting all these sorts of when they were
getting all the different a flag from the from the
FCC and everything like that, and especially from like tweetsing
the president and after they paid like the dollars but
forgot about But yeah, yeah, I Steven didn't. But anyway, No,
I do think that it is. I think that it
was Taylor definitely wanted it was. Definitely it was only
a Canarian the coal mine in regards to how much
do people value you hosting a network television program, and
again not blading Taylor on this one, Taylor did not
feel that hosting after midnight would be as neither be
not as fulfilling or not as profitable as sticking with
her stand up comedy career. And that is that That
definitely says a lot in regards to how people are
approaching late night talk shows now, because because you may
have said multiple times over appearing on a Carson, appearing
on Carson as a stand up comedian and then being
called to the chair, your career was pretty much set
practically for a lot yeap, unless you did something really
awful or you just went like a whole bunch of
bad or just a whole bunch of bad shows, and
like that. You could dine off of that financially as
well as in your career for decades. People are still
doing that now right now, and is doing that now.
So yeah, I do think that it was that that
the fact that somebody wanted to leave the late night
talk show in order to focus on stand up instead
of the other way around. It was definitely CBS's way.
It was definitely a notification to CBS saying this is
not as valuable for even the host anymore, and and
and there. I'm sure there could be a lot of
people that would say otherwise, but the fact that it
happened this once, especially to someone who was as hyper
as high Profiles Taylor, definitely definitely what would definitely have
been a sort of source of a conversation. Again, not
believing Taylor at all, she is an excellent stand up
comedian and I think that she made the right decision
for her career as well as her fans and everything
like that. But you are correct, do you think it
was a It was definitely away in order for It
was definitely cds's It was the catalyst for CBS in
order to say what we need to rethink of this
particular part of.
Speaker 2: You've been very generous with your time, so I'll start
heading for home. Here I do want to talk about
I think you're right about Colbert. It's more than just
the money. And sure it is the money, but I
also keep gying back to that. They went straight to
the show's over. There were a conversation that could be had.
You start to get ugly, you go, do we need
a band? No? So what if we tape two on
Wednesday and it's a three day week and we cut
everybody's salary twenty percent. I don't want to do that
to my people. Well it's that or nothing. Okay, we'll
do three shows. Jimmy Kimmel's not on the summer, so
you're not gonna be on in the summer. Well I
don't like that. Will too bad? And we're gonna take
an eight week break at Christmas time and you're gonna
cut your salary by a quarter, and some stand up
comedian's gonna host Mondays. Too bad. There were all kinds
of the Ed Sullivant Theater. We're gonna sell this big
building and we're gonna lock you in a black Box
theater on the in the West Village, and you're gonna
do the show to forty people. Too bad. There were
conversations to be had that they didn't even try. It
was just like, you know what, we don't need this.
Speaker 1: Those shorts conversations did happen with Seth and with Jimmy
Fallon for God's sake, so we Jimmy is not only
taping four days a week. He was taping five days
a week until last year, up until like twenty twenty four,
he and Seth Meyers he lost his band. He only
records three days a week. He records one show on
Monday at two shows on Monday, the Tuesday episode, And
that's the reason why he doesn't have any It doesn't
have a closer look at it, because you could change
completely in by the end of the day, as we
mentioned at the beginning. But yeah, they take two shows
on Monday, one show on Wednesday, and one show on
Thursday to do corrections and that's it. Yeah, And there
are also different sorts of like you know, the things
that are happening behind the scenes, you don't see them
go out on the road as many times. I think
the only reason that Fallon was able to do a
show for WAS. I was able to do a show,
one show, not even the week of shows, but one
episode in Detroit was because it was WAS. It was
basically sponsored by Ford. I mean, originally the network would
just say, hey, just take everybody, just go over to
this over to the to like, you know, Chicago for
a week or something like that. You know, Letterman did that,
Coden did that, Jay did that multiple times over I'm sure,
but yeah, I mean there are a lot of there
are a lot of ways in order to cut the cut,
the fat, cut the cut, you know, further expenses from
the show. But instead they said, okay, we have this
thirty three year old, you know, franchise that has established
are that has established some sort of dominance in late
It may not be ultimate dominance, but we are at
least number we are at least number three in the
time in the time slot here. We're just gonna let
it go entirely. We're going, you know, there's the franchise
that was started by Letterman, I get tee you by Colbert.
It ends it is over the end. No that that
that's not how you do it. There as soon as
you fore Kimmel, you know, has the summers off, and
they're a bunch and they're a bunch of guess hos
those guests as are being paid Steve as me, So yeah,
I definitely do see that as uh as like different
sorts of alternatives that could have been done in order
to offset the cost of the Late Show, and they
didn't do that. They just they just cut it off
with the knee. And I think that is exceedingly specious
and then very and exceedingly and that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just you give me ideas that I'm sitting
here with my producer brain on if we're willing to
accept Byron Allen numbers. All right, let's lock Colbert. Hey,
can you work an extra fifteen minutes on Tuesday and
do some wraps for Hey, it's Stephen Colbert. It's the
best of the interviews. And tonight I'm gonna have the
three times I had Marty short on and just hand
that in and run that. You know, it's not gonna
be worse than Byron Allen it and I shouldn't. I mean,
I know it's cool to dump on Byron Allen. The
guy's a billionaire. He knows the business. He knows what
he's handing in here. But Byron Allen's not stupid. Byron
Allen's not going, oh, this is going to do a
fifteen share. He's saying, I know how to make money
doing this. That's why the show is evergreen. I don't
think Byron Allen's tell you this is cool, cutting edge comedy.
I think he's telling you this is evergreen stuff which
we can monetize and CBS will make some money on it.
I Byron Allen, the guy can make some money on it,
and that's what we're doing here, and it's going to
get a zero point six and whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, No. I try not to cast any
expurgeons on Byron Allen as a person. I do think
that the fact that that that conmoncept's downright abysmal, but
I do. But I gotta give Creed get you know,
I gotta get some props to Byron for the longevity
that he's had. I mean part of the Tonight Show.
At the age of seventeen, he was on Real People,
He did shows like The Entertainers for like for a
bull Overard dec Katie Adams on The Night Talk Show
for a bit. So yeah, he does. He knows the
entertainment industry, and he's able to find ways in order
to make money in that industry. And he's not a billionaire,
and he's to water Channel for godsake. I do think
that he is a very shrewd businessman and knows how
to put together a television program. I just think of
the television program that's being replaced, that's replacing the Late Show.
It should not be that, but but what do I know?
Speaker 2: But there's something about the texture of it. Whereas if
they just said, you know what, we're just gonna run
We've got twenty five years of CSIS, We're just gonna
run CSI Miami every night at eleven thirty like they
used to do in the eighties. You know, they'd run
old Hawaii five. Oh's was a thing.
Speaker 1: I meant in between Colbert and enlightnenmen. They were showing
the mental illness on that in that time slot. So yeah, absolutely,
I somehow that would feel less offensive.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I don't know why, just that
that would just be like, all right, they're not even trying.
Whereas there's something I don't know, I guess because it
is paid programming or I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: It was three runs of CBS shows. I would say, oh,
at least theirs CBS shows, you know, they're the family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let me let you get out of here.
You've been super awesome with your time. What are you
up to? Where we find you? What's your deal? You know,
what are you plugging?
Speaker 1: Well? I I post a lot on threads. I don't
know if that's much of a plug at all.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're great on threads. That's why you're here,
That's why. That's where I found you. I'd never talked
to you till seventy minutes ago, and you're gratefully fine.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much. But yeah, so I'm
Obiro on threads. My user name, my name is spelled weird,
so it's f A R D m U h A
M M A D. And you can also find me there.
You can also find me on the name on on Instagram,
not on Facebook. It's under mister f It's m R
F A r D blah blah blah. And uh, you know,
I I do have a YouTube channel and I'm trying
to put together episodes of the talk show show. I
have two shorts and I also filmed something regardless about
Letterman and Linto appearing in that appearing in that Late
show commercial. That's something you thought it was as commercial
or something like that. I still need to edit TI me.
I need to be shooting and I don't know, but
but yeah, you just find me on YouTube is under
w TFG seventy eight. I'm trying to make it look
like a YE station or something like that. And yeah,
I mean you might see me in like comedy clubs
and then Los Angeles as an audience member. You know,
you just listen for my laugh or something like that. Also,
you could probably find the video of me lashing on
Conan the audience there on my YouTube channel as well.
I thought that was a really cool experience. We could
talk about that another time.
Speaker 2: And that was always my thing. If I went to
see a taping of Late Night with Letterman, I would
make sure I was the last person clapping. The last
clap was always meds. All right, I'll let you go.
I'm sure I will invite you back since we can
clearly talk for hours.
Speaker 1: Thank you, free time, great chatting, Willia, all right, by bye,