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Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to

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Speaker 2: It is heard live every day from noon to three

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go to dpeteclendershow dot com.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode

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for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again,

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thank you so much for your support.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did get some messages regarding the last hour's

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topic on Twitter. These are peat tweets regarding our sheriff

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and the legislation that is now being moved in the

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state legislature to try to get him to cooperate with ICE.

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Maybe a citizen driven class action lawsuit against Gary not

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my fault McFadden along with the governor and the attorney general.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that might work.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's part of this legislation push to be able

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to sue local jurisdictions. So you know, you put these people,

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you know, you put them at risk for litigation to

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allow people to sue them if they are victimized by

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you know, some illegal alien that you just released because

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you wouldn't cooperate with ICE. Maybe that'll get them to

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pay attention to It's all a distraction on Twitter. It's

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a peat tweet who says it would be interesting to

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learn how many millions of dollars Charlotte, Ashville, Raleigh, Greensboro

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have spent on illegals in our state. Well, we do

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have some numbers. So this morning I went through and

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I pulled the prepared testimony of Stephen Camarata, who is

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the director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies

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or CIS, and this was testimony he provided at a

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subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee back in January of

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twenty twenty four, and the summary is as follows. Well,

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the headline of his testimony is the cost of illegal

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immigration to taxpayers.

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Speaker 1: And here's the summary.

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Speaker 2: Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive

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more in government services than they pay in taxes. I

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will point out here I have never argued, and I'm

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not aware of any real experts that would argue or

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have argued, that illegal immigrants do not pay any form

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of taxes.

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Speaker 1: They do.

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Speaker 2: They do pay taxes, different kinds of taxes, and not

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a whole lot of them but they do pay certain taxes.

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But when you look at the call of services and

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then you compare the tax revenue generated, there is a

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net plus or minus. And that's what you should be

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assessing if we are talking about the costs. That's the

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true cost, is the difference between the taxes they pay

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and the services they consume that are funded by those

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tax dollars.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the things that gets me into some

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trouble with people. They don't appreciate it when I say

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stuff like what I'm about to say, But people who

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work for government are not taxpayers. They are tax consumers.

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They consume the tax dollars. Now they recirculate the tax

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dollars into the economy. Yes, absolutely right, But you're not

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paying more in taxes than you are receiving because your

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paycheck is literally paid for with taxpayer dollars. That is

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not to say you're not doing valuable work. And it's

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not to say that that those jobs, particularly you know,

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law enforcement. Right, that we could not engage in a

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free economic market if we did not have the umbrella

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of security that you provide, right, So that's I'm not

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arguing that that simply.

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Speaker 1: Being a tax consumer is bad.

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Speaker 2: I'm just pointing out that but for the private sector

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that actually generates the tax dollars, right, people who work

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for government in whatever level would not be paid. They

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would not make any money because all of the money

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is paid for by the tax dollars that are produced,

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and the people whose paycheck is derived from that coffer

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they are quote unquote consuming the tax dollars. Again, this

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is not an insult. This, I'm just I'm just stating

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a reality that is what occurs. Okay, So you're looking

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at the net with illegal immigrants, what they pay in

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and what they draw out. Okay, back to the summary

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from the testimony. Illegal immigrants actually have high Oh sorry,

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let me back, I skip the sentence accidentally.

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Speaker 1: Let me back up.

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Speaker 2: So this result that they are a net fiscal drain.

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The result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal

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immigrants actually have high rates of work and they do

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pay some taxes, including income tax and payroll taxes. The

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fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is

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that they have a low average education level, which results

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in low average earnings and low average tax payments. This

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is not an insult, right, This is just the data.

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It also means a large share of illegal immigrants qualify

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for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their

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US born children. Like their less educated and low income

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US born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do

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not come close to covering the cost they create. So

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what is he saying here that this analysis holds true

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whether you are an American citizen or you are an

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illegal immigrant. The key here is the education level and

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the data the research for decades has borne this out.

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Lower education attainment, failure to graduate from high school means

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that there is usually a profound effect on your ability

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to earn income, that has a profound effect on your

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ability to pay an income tax, and your ability to

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receive various government checks right welfare. And that is irrelevant

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whether irrelevant to your legal status citizen, non citizen, doesn't matter.

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The key there is the education. This is why when

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the Brookings Institute did their big study now probably I

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don't know, twenty five years ago, and they offered up

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sort of the formula for how to get out of

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poverty and how to stay out of poverty. And these

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are basic things, and there are things that the government

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cannot do for you.

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Speaker 1: Right. Number one is graduate high school.

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Speaker 2: Graduate high school, and you will be less likely to

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be in poverty, and you will be more likely to

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get out of poverty if you are in it. Right,

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So graduate high school. Number two, have a job, any

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job doesn't matter. Just have a job.

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Speaker 1: Work. If you do some work, you will develop.

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Speaker 2: Some skill, you can move up in the ranks, you

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get other opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It puts you on a trajectory for a more successful

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life and career. Number three, do not have kids before

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you uh, before you graduate high school? Now, like, these

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are very fundamental things and government can't stop you from

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having the kid. They can make you finish high school. Right,

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if you want to drop out, you can't. Like these

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are these are these are societal things that have to

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be promoted at the family level, at the neighborhood level,

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at the then county and state.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But this is it's a cultural thing. And if you

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have a culture that rejects education or celebrates unemployment, or

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celebrate or rewards it right, or celebrates having lots of

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kids before you graduate high school and out of weblock, well,

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it's going to make it more difficult for you to

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stay out of poverty, because these things are correlated. All right,

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If you're listening to this show, you know I try

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to keep up with all sorts of current events, and

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I know you do too, And you've probably heard me

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say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because

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it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've

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been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and

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it's a website, and it combines news from around the

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world in one place so you can compare coverage and

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verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground,

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dot news slash pete. I put the link in the

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podcast description too. I started using ground News a few

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months ago and more recently chose to work with them

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as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how

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stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature

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shows you which stories get ignored by the left and

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the right. See for yourself. Check dot ground, dot news,

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slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen

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only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground News

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as they make the media landscape more transparent.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: So, in his testimony before the Immigration, Integrity, Security, and

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Enforcement Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee up on Capitol

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Hill back in January of twenty twenty four, Stephen Camarada,

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the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies,

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laid out the cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers, and

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he says in the summary, he says that illegal immigrants

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are a net fiscal drain. He says, it means a

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large share of the population. Here, the illegal immigrant population

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qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of

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their US born children. Like they're less educated and low

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income US born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants

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do not come close to covering the cost they create.

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Speaker 1: He said.

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Speaker 2: They're preliminary estimates under the Biden administration. Again, he did

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this in January of twenty four, so almost a year

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before the election of the reelection of Donald Trump, the

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illegal immigrant population was pegged at about twelve point eight

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million people using the National Academy's estimate of immigrants net

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fiscal impact by education level. He said, we estimate that

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the lifetime fiscal drain, so taxes paid minus costs for services.

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The lifetime drain for each illegal immigrant is about sixty

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eight thousand dollars sixty eight thousand dollars, although he points

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out there are some caveats here. Illegal immigrants make extensive

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use of welfare. Based on government data, they estimate that

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fifty nine percent of households headed by illegal immigrants use

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one or more major welfare program compared to thirty nine

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percent of households headed by the US born population. So

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fifty nine percent versus thirty nine percent based on their

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use rate of.

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Speaker 1: It's unreal.

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Speaker 2: Based on their use rate of major welfare programs, we

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estimate that illegal immigrants receive forty two billion dollars in benefits,

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or about four percent of the total cost of the cash, medicaid,

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food and housing programs examined in the study. But this

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is only a rough approximation because there are limitations to

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the data. Okay, this is one of the things like

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if you don't ever look well, you don't find right.

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If we're not collecting the data, makes it very difficult

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to assess fiscal impacts. Illegal immigrants can receive welfare on

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behalf of US born children. Also, illegal immigrant children can

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receive school guys out in the hall, all right, don't

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understand it's like we work in radio.

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Speaker 1: Sorry.

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Speaker 2: Illegal immigrants can receive welfare on behalf of US born children.

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Illegal immigrant children can receive school lunch, school breakfasts, and

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wicic payments women and infants. I think something to forget

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with what it stands for. But it's a welfare program.

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A number of states provide medicaid to some illegal immigrants,

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and a couple states provide snap food assistance. Several million

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illegal immigrants also have work authorization, for example through DACA

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TPS some asylum applicants. Right that, then if you have

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the work authorization through like the asylum seeking programs, you

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could also then get earned income tax credits. The high

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welfare use of illegal immigrant households is not explained by

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an unwillingness to work. That's not the issue here. They

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are willing to work. In fact, ninety four percent of

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illegal immigrant households have at least one worker. Ninety four

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percent compared to US born households, We're only seventy three

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percent have at least one worker. Right, So they have

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higher rates of workforce participation than the native born population. However,

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America's welfare system is designed to help low wage workers

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with children, and that describes a very large share of

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illegal immigrant households in addition to consuming welfare. Illegal immigration.

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By the way, what do you think is happening here?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: Like it's this is the same sort of dynamic that

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occurs with the taxation on tips argument. Like for servers, right,

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people in restaurants, service workers like that, waiters, waitresses, They

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they are paid I forget what it is now, it's

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like two three dollars an hour, right, the minimum wage

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maybe seven point fifty, but they get paid like three

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bucks an hour. Why Well, because they are declaring tips,

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which then get taxed. Donald Trump says he wants to

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get rid of that tax. So it's essentially free income

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for them. Right, But who is that actually subsidizing. It's

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subsidizing the restaurant owners because they now don't have to

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pay all of the taxes on the payroll, taxes, right

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to contribute to social.

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Speaker 1: Security and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: So they get a break by offering three dollars minimum

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wage to their employees.

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Speaker 1: They get to dodge those costs.

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Speaker 2: And because the employees are making so little money on

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the books, they then get to qualify for other types

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of programs. In fact, this is the argument that the

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left makes regarding, for example, Walmart employees, that we are

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subsidizing Walmart because they pay their workers so low that

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they qualify to be on government assistance, and so Walmart

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is offloading costs onto the taxpayers. The exact same argument

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applies with illegal immigrants argument. Here's a great idea. How

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about making an escape to a really special and secluded

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getaway in western North Carolina. Just a quick drive up

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the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether

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you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to

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plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together

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for a big old reunion. Cabins of Asheville has the

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ideal spot for you where you can reconnect with your

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loved ones and the things that truly matter. Nestled within

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the breath taking fourteen thousand acres of the Pisga National Forest,

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their cabins offer a serene escape in the heart of

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the Blue Ridge Mountains. Centrally located between Ashville and the

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entrance of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. It's the

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perfect balance of seclusion and proximity to all the local

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attractions with hot tubs, fireplaces, air conditioning, smart TVs, Wi

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Fi grills, outdoor tables, and your.

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Speaker 2: Cabins, six cottages, two villas, and a great lodge with

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eleven king sized bedrooms. Cabins of Ashville has the ideal

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memories that'll last a lifetime. Alrighty, So the cost of

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illegal immigration to taxpayers again from testimony that was provided

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to Congress over a year ago, over a year ago,

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and it outlines based on all of the data that's available,

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and there's there are there are data points that we

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truly don't know, like we don't actually know for certain

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the like for example, the illegal immigration or illegal alien population.

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Speaker 1: We don't know.

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Speaker 2: We have estimates, and the Center for Immigration Studies has

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done its best to you know, figure this out and

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calculate the data points. But some of this stuff they

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don't collect the data on purpose so has to not

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be able to ascertain the true costs. The director of

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research for the Center for Immigration Studies, stephen A.

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Speaker 1: Camarata.

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Speaker 2: He says, in addition to consuming welfare, illegal immigration makes

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significant use of public education. Based on average costs per student,

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the estimated four million children of illegal immigrants in public

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schools created over sixty eight billion dollars in costs in

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twenty nineteen. The vast majority of those kids are in

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fact US born kids. Okay, but that's the cost of

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educating them. Use of emergency medical services is another area

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in which illegal immigrants create significant fiscal costs. Prior research

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indicates that there are five point eight million uninsured illegal

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immigrants in the country in twenty nineteen, accounting for a

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little over Again, remember this is data before Biden, before

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Biden even opened the floodgates. Right, that five point eight

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million uninsured people accounts for more than one fifth of

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the total population without health insurance. The cost of providing

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healthcare to these people likely costs somewhere in the neighborhood

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of about seven billion dollars a year. He points out,

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immigrants do pay some taxes. Illegal immigrants pay some taxes, however,

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and then they calculate some of that like sixteen billion

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social Security about four billion in medicaid. However, as the

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net fiscal drain of sixty eight thousand dollars per person

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that was cited earlier, the taxes generated are not nearly

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enough to cover the cost of the services they receive.

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I talked about the difficulty in estimating the total illegal population.

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In a recent report, the Center for Immigration Studies analyzed

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Customs and Border or CPS data and found that there

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were forty nine and a half million immigrants legal and

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illegal together in America in October of twenty twenty three.

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That is an increase of about four and a half

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million from two years prior, and that increase is unprecedented.

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The illegal population has likely grown to about twelve point

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eight million. All of these numbers represent a net increase.

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When he's running through the population changes like these are increases. Okay,

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what else?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Welfare programs study published in December of twenty twenty three.

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They examined welfare use. You've got the Survey of Income

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and Protection, sorry, Survey of Income and Program Participation or SIP. Okay,

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this is the report and the programs included in the

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analysis are the Earned Income Tax Credit, supplement Security Income SSI,

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Temporary aid to needy families, free and reduced price school

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lunch and breakfast, women, infants and children, Nutrition Program, Supplemental

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Nutrition Assistance program, also food stamps, medicaid and subsidized and

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public housing. We estimate fifty nine point four percent of

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illegal immigrant households use one or more welfare programs compared

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to the US born illegal headed households they use. So,

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if you're comparing to US born population, illegal headed households

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use every program, every one of those programs at statistically

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higher rates except for SSI, housing and the TANF. The

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tenth illegal immigrants have a specially high use of the

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Earned income tax credit, food programs, and medicaid, and that's

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how they get to the forty two billion dollar figure.

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Speaker 1: And there are reasons for this.

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Speaker 2: Several factors contribute to the welfare use being so high.

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You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense

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have an email.

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00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 2: It's a peat mail from David who says, all right,

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00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,680
so the oh. He's referencing a story that ran in

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00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:57,319
the top of the hour newscast. He says, so the

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small business owner owned by an immigrant. So the owner

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is an immigrant in this news story. Says in the

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story that the Trump policy is scaring Latinos from buying

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things and coming out of their homes. If you're scared

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to leave your home, then you've done something illegal or

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have entered this country illegally. Right, Sorry, you have to

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follow the rules. You have nothing to be afraid of

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unless you've done something illegal, right. And Yeah, it's one

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of those things where when I hear these types of

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stories and I understand from a business perspective, like you

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went and opened a business that caters to a certain

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population in a certain neighborhood, right, and then this change

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00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:49,599
in immigration enforcement has now led to a reduction in

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your client base. I'm sympathetic to that, right, because you

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saw a need in the market, you came in, you

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filled the need, you made money doing so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure.

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Speaker 2: However, when you open the business, you knew going in, right,

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that this was going to be sort of at the

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mercy of government policy, and it was an untenable policy.

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It couldn't hold, it was unstable. It would change from

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administration to administration. And so if you're going in to

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start a business and you're going to cater to an

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illegal alien population, you really can't be surprised if the

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administration changes, a crackdown occurs, and now you've lost business.

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00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:43,440
That should have been baked into your market analysis before

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you launch the business.

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Speaker 1: Again, I can.

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Speaker 2: I can sympathize with your loss of clients and customers, absolutely,

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but I kind of feel like you should have like

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had eyes wide open going in, you know. All right,

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So back to this report from Center for Immigration Studies.

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There are several factors for why illegal alien populations use

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welfare at a higher rate than American born populations.

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Speaker 1: Several factors.

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Speaker 2: First, most important, more than half of all illegal immigrant

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households have at least one US born child on behalf

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of whom they can receive the benefits.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's the hook. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Second, many states offer medicaid directly to illegal immigrants, not

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just the American born children, but also to any illegal alien. Third,

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there are six states that also offer food stamp benefits

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to illegal immigrants under certain circumstances. Fourth, illegal immigrant kids

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have the same eligibility as citizens for free and subsidized

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school lunch and breakfast, as well as the Women Infant's

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Children Nutrition program under the federal law. Fifth, several million

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illegal immigrants have work authorization that provides a Social Security

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number and an earned income tax credit eligibility along with it.

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This includes those with DACA, the Dreamers right, as well

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as the asylum seekers and those granted any kind of

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a suspension of deportation. All of these factors, coupled with

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the large share of illegal immigrants with modest levels of education,

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which results in lower income means a lot more of

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them qualify for the welfare programs. Finally, there is a

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large welfare bureaucracy whose job it is to help people

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qualify and navigate the system. Milton Friedman talked about this

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decades ago that most of the programs that people think

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of as you know, helping the poor are actually jobs

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programs for the middle class because they administer these programs.

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For all the reasons that I just listed, the ban

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on illegal immigrants directly using most welfare programs is only

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going to have very modest effects, and tweaking the restrictions

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is not likely to make much of a difference. If

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you want to reduce the cost associated with illegal immigrants

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use of these types of means tested programs, then you

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have to enforce the law and reduce the number of

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illegal immigrants in the country in the first place. If

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they are allowed to remain, the welfare costs will remain

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as well. They're connected, you can't divorce them. I mentioned

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public education. Public schools is one of the areas in

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which illegal immigration has had the largest impact. Okay, a

435
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:01,079
decade ago, Pew Research estimated that there are are just

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00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,799
under three quarters of a million illegal immigrants enrolled in

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00:30:04,839 --> 00:30:09,640
public schools, and then another three point two million US

438
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,319
born children of illegal immigrants in schools. And according to

439
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a study, the follow up study from five years later,

440
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:22,160
they attempted to update that estimate and what they found

441
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was that there was somewhere about four million children of

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00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,039
illegal immigrants in American schools. The National Center for Education

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Statistics reports that in twenty nineteen through twenty twenty, that

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school year, the average expenditure per kid, the per pupil

445
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cost to educate a child, was about seventeen thousand dollars

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a year. That was from five years ago. Okay, if

447
00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:49,839
you use that estimate, that would put the cost of

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educating these kids at sixty eight billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that is.

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Speaker 2: Before the current surge or the Biden surge at the border. Right,

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So when you hear people talking about the cost of education,

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00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,599
how they need more money, it is driven a lot

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00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,720
of These costs are driven by illegal immigration policy and

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the refusal of people like Gary not my fault macfadden

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to help enforce it at the local level. It has

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00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:25,839
direct impacts on the costs of our schools and it

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00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:31,160
always has. All right, that'll do it for this episode.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.

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00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,759
Speaker 2: I could not do the show without your support and

460
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,519
the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast,

461
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,960
so if you'd like, please support them too and tell

462
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,720
them you heard it here. You can also become a

463
00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:46,440
patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again,

464
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,160
thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything

465
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,240
while I'm gone.